Saturn Returns with Caggie - 6.4 Prioritising Your Future-self with Stef Williams

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

Stef Williams, the founder of fitness app, WEGLOW and fashion brand, Sefi, joins Caggie in this open and vulnerable episode that explores discipline and making decisions to prioritise the 'future us' as well as how Stef worked through her toxic mindsets around food. Stef and Caggie also discuss how they both navigate drinking culture and the pressure that comes with judgement when saying no to a drink, as well as how we can be more accepting of ourselves by understanding the complex, contradictory parts of ourselves. Stef also shares her experience with disordered eating and how she overcame her negative mindset around food - a topic she’s not publicly spoken about before. Please note while there are no in depth descriptions of eating disorders, if this is of a sensitive nature to you, you may wish to skip past the timestamp of 31:15 - 40:29.  --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. I never really felt myself when doing those things and then I finally kind of like came out of it and made decisions which actually like served me or felt scary at the time but actually I've way better for now I'm like I wish I could go back and say like you don't have to behave like that to like seek other people's approval and validation. Today I'm joined by the lovely Steph Williams aka Steph Fit who has built an online fitness empire on social media. In this episode we explore relating to the self and we cover quite a few topics. I absolutely love this conversation with Steph because it just felt like I was

chatting with a friend and of course when we see someone and we think we know someone through social media we have an idea of who they are and how they operate in the world and the reality is often very different. We explored this idea of swanning of like presenting ourselves as a certain version but what was so interesting was Steph had so many similar fears or thoughts that I have and that I'm sure that you guys have as well at the end of the day it doesn't really matter what we've achieved or how people perceive us because first and foremost we are relating to the self and that voice in our head and the relationship we're having with ourselves is something that needs to

be addressed it needs to be acknowledged and it needs to be brought into our awareness and as you'll hear in this episode Steph has an amazing team of people around her both personally and professionally that help her with this and this is something that I am definitely establishing in my own life but I just hope that this conversation alleviates any feelings or doubts that you might be having and know that they are totally normal and very human. We also talk about the importance of discipline which is a very Saturnian principle and obviously that's a really big thing for Steph in building the empire that she has of the discipline she has with working out even when she doesn't want to and staying focused. We also touch on drinking culture and as many of you know being sober

curious has been a big part of my own journey and it was interesting to see and hear that this is something that Steph is exploring right now. She also very bravely and courageously touches on an eating disorder that she had in her younger years and this is something that I've experienced as well and spoken about and I just wanted to say you know thank you Steph for sharing this because I feel like when someone like her does it allows people to acknowledge those parts of themselves and you'll hear in this episode it it doesn't always have to be that dramatic but sometimes I think we go on through life without really addressing these narratives and they can become corrosive if left unattended so I hope it will help some of you that might be struggling with something similar we also discuss being dyslexic. Both Steph and I are dyslexic and it

was really interesting and quite funny talking to her about it and the similarities and also hearing how her advice on building a brand and building an empire because she has achieved so much so young and so yeah I think you'll love this episode. It was just like talking with a mate and I hope that you find it the same. Before we get into this episode, let's check in with Nora, our astrological guide for the season. Losing yourself to the inner critic can be a big theme in this day and age. As we're constantly being bombarded by beauty ideals, lifestyle aspirations, hustle culture and everything that keeps us hooked on the notion that we need to be more and essentially become someone else in order to please the patriarchal gaze of society and somehow only then we finally

are enough. And by the way, this is a phenomenon not only women but also men suffer from. So in trying to fall slave to this idea of false, constant, leveling up according to inauthentic values outside of us, we in truth not only lose ourselves in the process but we also lose sight of our life path, our unique purpose this lifetime accompanied by the inner work and outer work we need to complete in order to leave a footprint behind, no matter how big or small. So how do we connect this not only astrologically but also spiritually? We start by silencing as much as the outside noise off. In a true Saturnian fashion, we work

day to day on what our minimum duty is in order to create enough internal space to essentially find ourselves and distinguish the inner critic from the inner nurturer and the inner challenger. See, challenge never equals criticism. Challenge allows us to rise above whatever false limitations we've set upon ourselves which inevitably were informed by early authority figures or society at large. Saturn and the North Node in our charts can help be a guide to where we're meant to move and which direction to choose to thread upon without losing sight of our authentic inner voice, which transcends criticisms but rather becomes challenged and discerned for our highest good. Therefore, it would never feel like self-oppression, but more like self-encouragement,

no matter how uncomfortable the process of it is. Saturn return at age 28 to 29, and the North Node return at age 36 to 37, does exactly this. It helps us remember who we are, sometimes by difficult external circumstances, but if we're intuitive enough and have cultivated inner silence, it helps us further build on whatever we've created and we strongly know ourselves to be. Therefore, we empower ourselves and we're able to let that inner critic go back to its original influence, usually early authoritarian or media influences, and cultivate a stronger inner empowering and thus liberating voice that we both hear and know in our day-to-day,

but also make heard and be known to the world till our footprint is cemented one way or another. Anyway, Steph, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. How are you feeling today? Yeah, good. I'm feeling good, actually. I went for a little jog this morning, which I always need to get back into, but when I'm not feeling a bit messy in my head, if I go for a jog, I'm like not feeling feeling a bit like messy in my head

if I go for a jog I feel like it just just helps me I couldn't agree more but it's one of those things that when I get into that state in my head that the idea of you know a 20 minute even half an hour jog could be the solution just seems far too simple so I'm like no I'm having an existential crisis exercise isn't gonna help and I do like something really simple and I feel a thousand times better yeah honestly it is it's like that isn't it sometimes it's so yeah I literally this morning woke up my husband as well he's like he's like I can feel your you're a bit you know come out of your period and you're still a bit like manic and I'm like I know I know and it's like I know that's going to help me but sometimes actually do it but I did it so actually feeling great now but yeah I feel like I've been in quite a manic

state recently would you say that you're um I mean obviously for women like our moods do shift around our cycles but would you is there like a really noticeable pattern in yours um yeah I would say there definitely was which is what well I just I'm like the happiest you know so on it and everything and then all of a sudden I'm like oh my god my life what who am I like yeah I'm just very like and hangry I'd say is probably key to that as well do you feel it a lot I think so but I also feel like I just go through these cycles within this like constantly anyway and I was thinking about it this morning how this is quite a random thought but I feel like generally men are a bit more straightforward in their sort of mood and temperament and a bit more predictable whereas

women are just like sometimes I feel like my boyfriend's like I don't know what I'm gonna get today you're gonna get today like exactly because I feel the last couple of weeks I've been really struggling with anxiety and then went almost into like a slightly depressed period and now I feel like I'm I don't know really like lively and anyway I definitely I can relate to the kind of the shifts yeah and men definitely I agree that they generally feel like their mood and they're like level and they're just but also they don't have are like all the hormones that they have hormones yes but like not the same to extent to like what we go go through yeah so I'm glad I'm not learning that because I feel like the last couple weeks same as you it's kind of like you just start like questioning things and things that seem to be like a simple task when you're feeling good feel like unbearable or like yeah unmanageable

yeah yeah because obviously from you know the outside and for the audience that doesn't know like you've built up this incredible brand and you have these businesses and most people would look at you and just be like she has got it all sorted and I guess that's what but sometimes people say that to me I'm like oh god no that's just what I what I share so what is like your sort of opinion and perspective on that in terms of what you go through more internally or behind closed doors versus the persona or like the aspects of you you present digitally I mean yeah it's definitely not the case um I say it's like swanning when you're just like you know yeah it's like I'm appearing to be

fine but I'm like underneath frantically it's all fine like it's good this is good um yeah I mean I think online it's so hard to um I try and like show like as positive side as I can and um you know you know people want my workouts from me or um to find like inspiration from me or it might be like some fashion things and like I try and keep my space online as like light-hearted as I can as there's enough like heavy stuff in the world I think going on to then have to feel like have something else that's super heavy from someone all the time and I sometimes feel like I could probably share more of the days where

I am like you know frantic and struggling I'm like bloody hell but then I think I also realize how lucky I am and I think like they see that me sharing something that's oh you know I'm having a bad day people will just be like oh I can't you know really and I'm just like oh so I just can't you know do you think that they would actually do that or that's just what your mind tells you maybe what my mind tells me slightly too because oh I'm I'm an overthinker like big time I think um so me too are you and also because I work so much on my own that can get quite out of control okay do you know what I mean because you don't I don't have that many people like people constantly around me but do you have like big teams of people that you're yeah so we've got um a I used to work a

lot more on on my own and then now since like starting the businesses and stuff we've got um it's a yeah bigger team as a team that I probably see every week of like six or seven of us and they'll sometimes be like you're they'll say to me like you're you're nuts like are you okay today um like you know or you're you're overthinking that massively that we had um we had just launched a new trainer on the app and we're launching another one. So we actually had both of the new trainers over from America. And I was so concerned with them being happy and OK and all the time that I was like, they're not. They're, you know, they're having a crap time.

We haven't done this and that. And they're like, they're great. And on the last night when we were all together, we all cried. They were crying, saying how happy and the best time they had and I was like I've been here for weeks having a mental breakdown thinking you're having like the worst time ever and they're like oh my god it's like awesome so I think yeah I definitely yeah well it's good to I do it's catastrophizing isn't it it's like your mind will start running on a story based on very little evidence but once it kind of starts spiraling and you start physically feeling as if it's happening

it's hard to discern what's real and what's a story in your head do you have any like tools or ways that you can kind of you stop that before it kind of gets too much yeah I think I have like little like check-ins with myself um sounds like silly but I'll kind of actually stop and go right is this you or like what what's this person actually done to make you think of this and that's like nothing this is just you like creating a scenario in your head it's really not happened um and then like a morning routine which I know sounds like such a everyone's morning routine but having a morning routine set in play for me definitely has such a like such an impact on my day um because just waking up not going on your phone because you know as soon as you go on your phone there's something someone

wants something from you um so straight away you're like oh and then that's when like my like scatiness will start because I think I've got this to do and I don't know which way to go um so I'll just I mean very simple I'll just put the kettle on like have my like hot lemon water have a shower and then I've got a little journal and I write like gratitude things in it um and then yeah sometimes other days I'm like just looking I'm sort of shit out woman like um so yeah I do think do you do you do anything like that well I mean a couple of things are coming to mind when you explain that because I'm not gonna lie I've been quite undisciplined with my morning routines. And that's probably why I've been spiraling a little bit.

But one of the sort of main principles of Saturn and like going navigating your Saturn return is, you know, discipline, being disciplined with your day and structuring, which is kind of one of the same. with your day and structuring which is kind of one of the same but when for me as I am quite a scatty chaotic person those things can kind of disappear quite quickly and then I wonder why I'm feeling so hectic so have you always been quite disciplined with that no you know way of bit no no no I'm like exactly the same as you like I actually that I find that that hard to do and like I have to really make myself do it and sometimes it will slip and recently um it slipped because I'm like I don't have time to to do that or you know just excuse and then once it slips a little bit you kind of get into a bad habit um but no when I do it I mean I feel so much better for it so I do try and be be pretty disciplined and my husband will be like have

you written in your book and what when he notices that you're going a little like frantic he's like please write something I'll write it for you. Okay. Yeah, so I think having, like, him, he's, like, very good with helping and understanding me. I mean, I've been with him for, like, eight years or something, so I feel like he gets it. And then, I mean, he knows before I do when I'm, like, coming on.

He's like, it's coming. Like, no, it's not. This this is genuine what are you talking about you you know and um yeah I think then when I feel like for example like your cycle when I feel those times where you do naturally feel more tired and things like that it's just like making sure that you're you know you are being disciplined with yourself making the right choices because your future self is just yeah gonna suffer or you're gonna help her I don't know why I'm talking about myself no I love that I think that's I was trying that was one of the first times that I actually learned how to practice and I say it's like learn how to practice self-love was when I recognized the future version of myself and prioritized her

versus prioritizing the short-term sort of pleasure and for that me particularly applied in drinking because I would get social anxiety and historically I would always drink to kind of alleviate that feeling but then I would go to parties and I'd be like do it for don't do it for tomorrow's you and once I started like practicing that I then was like oh okay this is this is what works this is how I can actually show up for myself so I completely understand that um because you're you're 30 aren't you I am I am 30 yeah so you've just I guess going through your Saturn return or been through or are you an Aries I am how is that do you have my birthday there no you just think you know I'm an Aries no I didn't know before I wish I wish I could have just lied and said I so many people because I do an astrology podcast

it's sort of an astrology podcast people always like tell me what star sign I am and I never get it but I really want to master being able to do that but um yeah but no I've got quite a lot of my mum's an Aries so is my dad so there's quite a lot of Aries. So you just said you don't you it was with drinking so I can like relate to that quite a lot um do you still drink? So I've got quite an unusual situation with drinking in that when I it was really when I so I'm 33 now and it was a long process throughout my mainly my late 20s where I was really having to address the fact that actually my drinking habits were not quote-unquote normal even though ostensibly I was perhaps behaving like everybody else I knew instinctively within me that something was off that it was coming

from a place of escapism and and sometimes I would take that far too far but it took me a while to really address it head on and that was when I was 29 so going through my Saturn return where I actually was like okay I think sobriety is something I need to explore and then I came across someone called Ruby Warrington who coined the term sober curious which is because I felt like I wasn't AA but I wasn't able to normal normal again quote unquote normal drink like everyone else like I can't just go and have a couple of drinks not to say that I would then end up going on a bender although that would sometimes happen too but more that it would just affect me mentally so much to the point where I was like I felt like I was poisoning myself and so so be curious basically means like if I wanted to I I could but 99% of the time I don't

so it's not alcohol's not part of my life in a day-to-day thing if I go out to a restaurant stuff but once in a blue moon if I'm at something as long as it's coming from the right place I'll let myself have a drink. But those moments are very few and far between. Well, I know I just feel like what you're saying is like very similar to me in the respect that I don't feel like I'm the type of person who would need to go to an event and necessarily need to drink to have a conversation or anything like that. But, you know, sometimes everyone's's drinking I'll just have a drink but like the effect that has has on me mentally when I do drink is like it's it's crazy and similar literally what you just said feels like me um and it's now I mean I don't I'm not a master drinker I can't like

I have to turn up for myself my team and things so it's um I I don't, I'm not a massive drinker. I can't, like, have to turn up for myself and my team and things. So it's, I don't do it. It's not sustainable. No, it's just not. But, like, I will have a drink. And then sometimes, like that, I just get a bit overexcited, you know. And then, so I'm actually, at the moment, I'm trying to do 90 days without alcohol. Was there anything particularly that brought that on? Or were you just like, I'm going to try it?

Yeah, I think, I mean, very similar to what you've said. It just doesn't have a good effect on me. I don't feel like I need it as part of my life. I feel like my hormones are not right at the moment. There's something in me that's not gelling each month and I'm like I just want to eliminate alcohol because it's it doesn't serve me in um any positive way I could still go out and see my friends have fun without it and not have you know the anxiety and feel you know awful for like the coming days and sometimes like week um so I think I was just like I'm just gonna like not not have it and that's that and just see

see see how I feel and more clarity and hopefully I don't know we'll see it's it's such a topic that so many people message me about because I think it's something a lot of people struggle with but it's such a normalized thing especially in the UK that it's what we do in you know celebration and in sorrow it's just let's go have a drink and for people navigating social situations or dating without it feels like this massive obstacle so I think it's really powerful for people like you to kind of say that it's something that actually doesn't agree with you because I think it liberates other people listening to think you know it actually isn't agreeing with me did you feel you had to communicate that like to get support be it from your husband or your friends or is it just something you're like I'm doing this and I'm not gonna talk about

it I mean it's only been about two weeks um but that's good though yeah I mean I'm not like a huge drinker regardless so it's not like I'm like, Oh my God, I need the drink or anything like that at all. Um, but like I saw my friends on the weekend and they had like a drink with lunch and they're, Oh, you're not drinking. And I just said, Oh no, I'm just want to give myself more like, I don't think I need it. But I do feel I have to say it. Um, because I also feel like with fitness people are like oh because you're in fitness or you don't want to drink and you know it's for like reasons it's for you know because you want

to like look a type of way and that's like it's nothing to do with that at all like drink and still be in shape and you know work out if you mentally can deal with that but for me like mentally I just it doesn't seem to be agreeing with me and I want to feel you also want to feel good don't you so yeah we'll see but I do think like what you're getting onto I guess is that you do get that judgment from other people yeah I don't think they realize they're doing it because it's so on autopilot everyone always just oh why why aren't you drinking why are you being boring because it also kind of might trigger the fact for them that they are still or maybe they should be abstaining a little bit and so you're navigating all these sort of weird unsaid

things do you feel do you find it hard to say that you're not do you feel any kind of awkwardness or anxiety around explaining to people that you're not drinking um yeah I guess not like not necessarily anxiety but I do just fear that judgment of oh you're good you're going to be boring or um so what I will do is like it was my sister's birthday on the weekend um and I got her like a virgin cocktail and it was like all her friends and stuff um and so they were just thinking that i was drinking yeah that's such a good hack yeah or like alex would sit next to me and i'll have a g and t and then i'll just like fake drink it and that's what i do yeah you just like i can't be asked the conversation no one even notices that I've not drunk and it just saves the like oh come

on I'm boring totally that's such a good piece of advice for people and it took me a really long time because at the beginning I would just be like no and have like a water and then again there wasn't the same amount of non-alcoholic alternatives as there is now and so it would always draw attention to me in a way that felt uncomfortable and then I would be having to explain I felt like I was explaining my whole life story to like a stranger at the bar and I was like oh this doesn't feel fair and then they just walk off but now I always I'll always have a glass of something like if I'm at a dinner party I'll have like a glass of wine there but just won't really I just won't drink it and no one notices yeah literally no no one has a clue

because they're all just off drinking I love that that's so funny because you do you do all of a sudden have this panic why didn't you drink and then you're like oh my god I'm like well this happened at this age then I had this blackout then and they're like okay just leave that's fine you don't need to drink did you get blackouts I did and I actually remember my reminds me of during the pandemic I the evening standard for doing a piece around sober curious and I typed my answers and I realized when they printed it that the sarcasm didn't translate very well so I was like joking about what we were just saying but it just looked like I was kind of crazy but yeah I did have I did have blackouts you know

what's really something that's come up recently for me that I've not actually spoken about yet but I'll meet people or bump into people today that I used to know I guess in my 20s and I won't recognize them it's really strange it's almost like that whole chapter of my life I don't know whether my mind has just erased it or because I just what one of my friends who's very into this sort of spiritual space was like it's because you weren't conscious or aware so you were just kind of blindly going through life on I don't know in a bit of a haze and so yeah there's big chunks I don't remember but I would be walking talking and fully animated yeah no it's fascinating

I thought you were going to say because they've just aged terribly or something well maybe that's who maybe that's who but honestly I had someone come up to me at a festival the other day and they were like Kagi hello and I just had absolutely no and it was so uncomfortable and I get I feel really ashamed about it because I I obviously at that moment at that moment in my life for that period of my life spent a lot of time with them but I just wasn't I just wasn't really there yeah no I and I feel like I could actually like somewhat relate to that there's like chunks of my early 20s like late teens were kind of very confused like not knowing what I want to do and just kind of like coasting and I had like quite a bad eating disorder which I've actually never spoken about before and I think that you kind of

you moments where you feel like shame or anything like that I feel like you you have those like blank you could you try and erase it from your memory because you can feel that shame of that person but it's still a part of you so I can kind of like understand why you you know feel like that it's quite it's quite scary isn't it because it's it's fascinating and amazing that the mind does that. But like you said, it's almost this shame. I feel personally for me, so I'd love to know, like from your experience, what it feels like. But it's almost, I guess I feel shame around that past version of me and the way she behaved and like perhaps the decision she made.

And just to add as a caveat, it was nothing that unusual or that bad. But I think in my mind I've made it that way and therefore blanked it out yeah but it's still part of me and that creates this um friction because it's almost like I'm not owning yeah and that's it it's like maybe it's the similarly the overthinking things side of it slightly and kind of like creating this. Because like I said, I didn't do anything out of the norm, like overly. But I think I also was, for example, using the drinking thing. I was drinking because I thought like that's just, you know, going to solve for what you do.

you know, going to solve or whatever, you know, what you do. I think, you know, in our early twenties, I think now like Gen Z, other people coming into their twenties teams, they don't think drinking is cool or the culture isn't there like it was for us. And I think I never wanted to, I never really felt myself when doing those things. And then I finally kind of like came out of it and made decisions which actually like served me or felt scary at the time but actually I've way better for so therefore now I'm like I wish I could go back and say like you don't have to

like drink that you don't have to behave like that to like seek other people's approval and validation but then there is that and then you still have the shame of that though it's interesting I never never spoken about it or thought about it really yeah and I think that's something that's so relatable to people is we operate in these ways because we feel we need to we're not trying to hurt ourselves or hurt anyone else or anything like that it's just how we've observed the world growing up and then think okay this is what I need to do to fit in and to be loved and to be accepted and then it's only once you know we figure out that that's

not the way and that can take time and experiences and messing things up yeah exactly I think you've got to mess things up sometimes but you mentioned a second ago about and if you're happy to talk about it I would love to kind of explore it with you but when you were was it when you were a teenager that you had struggled with eating disorders yeah and in my 20s when would you say that kind of stemmed from? Actually, it was first at school. Yeah, so at my school, I think it was like full of, I'd never even like thought about my weight or anything like that growing up because I was so sporty and I was just like, I am what I am. I didn't even like, didn't even think about it.

And, you know, parents like amazing amazing would never nothing to do with that I think it was maybe more like school the um a lot of girls were like stunning beautiful but like very very thin or um yeah I think that's probably where it stemmed from then I got like teased a lot for like my thighs, for example. And I think I felt, I mean, I was literally like a size eight, which is wild because that's so small, but I still felt that I was like so different because I was more muscular. I mean, it wasn't, didn't like phase me too much. Like I, you know, still got on with things and it's not like a woe is me situation at all. Like I was, you know, still got on with things and it's not like a, um, woe is me situation

at all. Like I was, you know, I've had great time at school and, um, had like great friends and things like that. But I think that stemmed from it. And there was, um, so there was a girl who had, um, bulimia. Um, and then like, she almost like there's a couple of girls who had it and it was almost in like a jokey way and they basically like lost weight and like the boys like everyone was like praising them and oh my god amazing and they were like quite cool I think I just like um tried it um which I never said it's

like a yeah and I think that then stemmed into a little bit of a spiral it wasn't like you know like terrible and no one knew about it at school but that's kind of where it stemmed from and then it kind of became a thing that I could control I guess which I think is a lot similar to like eating disorders and I think with eating disorders it's a it's a really like tricky one and I've never ever spoken about it because I think just because you've had it, it doesn't necessarily mean that I would give the best advice or anything like that, but I think it's kind of acknowledging it, like speaking to people about it, and then also understanding that you are sometimes still going to have bad days

because it's something that's ingrained in me and I've had it for years and years, and I think it's just recognizing that maybe sometimes you are going to have a bad day um you are gonna feel like not yourself or good and but it's just a bad day and it doesn't like you know you try not to let it take you take you there just acknowledge that that, like, that's okay. Sometimes we all have bad days. Things happen. You know, someone might, it might be someone might drink too much. Someone might, like, I don't know.

But, yeah, it's a hard topic to talk on. Because also I think I've heard people speak about the eating disorders and things as well. And I used to pick up tips. So I think I never would want to like think about exactly X, Y or Z and stuff, because even though you may be trying to help, I think it can come across in like not the correct way because you've just got to be so careful of who's listening. correct way because you've just got to be so careful of who's like listening yeah I would only want to ever have like a positive um impact on women and make them feel good and about themselves which really comes across by the way like everything you say you always kind of are aware of the impact you're having on your community and the audience and it's a really it's a really

lovely quality but thank you for sharing that story because I know it is a challenging topic to talk about, especially when it has that, you know, your own personal experience. And, you know, just to add, I went through something very similar when I was at school. And even though, like you say, things can normalize, it's always this sort of ever-present thing. And that's not

to say that it's driving your day, but if you have a bad day or if your routine really shifts, for me, it happened when I got COVID where suddenly my whole diet shifted because I couldn't really taste anything and I was just eating beige food and then that voice in my head kind of started up again and for me um speaking about it to my boyfriend was like the most powerful thing because as soon as I spoke it I realized how how horrible that way of speaking to myself was and actually how much that had kept me in a bit of a prison especially when I was younger as well and I think you know it's there's such a spectrum of this very complex very personal topic that a lot of people will fall on and not necessarily be open to talking about it or communicating about it because they think oh well you know I'm not

that bad or it's not got to this point or I've got it under control yeah that is like the thing isn't it it's that piece of I have my life under control whereas it's not a good way of controlling things it's not and I think like you said then it's like oh you know I've got it under control it's just like a slip up or you know anything like that any signs of like early you know that voice in your head and that that's when you have to like catch it and talk about it no that's not normal no that's not okay um and like you said that's amazing that you have your partner to have like that conversation with how did you like in your 20s was there something that happened that you were like okay I'm gonna address this um yeah I think it's like it gets to a point of like just so bad it just spirals doesn't it and then you're like I can't I can't anymore like this is um yeah

just just can't go on like that and then I think it's finding something you love and like trying to find like focus your energy elsewhere and asking for help and I think that's part of like feeling like a little bit lost I think in my early 20s um I think had like a massive part of that um and I you know my, my, like my parents, my husband, everyone's like, well, your fitness has always been like your love, like your passion. Like why, you know, I stopped doing, I played throughout school and then I stopped.

And that's kind of like, also I think had an impact on my mental health because that was my like release and my, you know, outlet. And then not- It's what lit you up. Yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred percent 100 like I miss it so much now I'd love to like play hockey or netball but I probably didn't injure myself and then that'll be the end of everything and then I'll be really sad so so I've got to make the choice of not not doing that um yeah that's that was I think it was just something and other people I think kind of saying

about it as well yeah very fortunate that yeah I have like my family and husband to kind of like pick me up and you know see the signs where you know I might be feeling that way inclined again and not speaking to myself nicely and you know just saying I'm being so mean to myself to your friends or like my mom or um my husband and then then just kind of like you're getting that routine which is what I spoke about earlier which is why I think and they can encourage you to do it yeah exactly I think having that support system is so key and it reminds me of what we were talking about earlier about the swan thing because I think as well not only to like through social media and stuff but to the world and people like me I wanted to present the swan and so in relationship it was challenging for me

to actually say hey I'm not okay and this is what's going on in my head right now and cannot like is it safe for me to share that with you but I think that that's such a transformational thing to be able to do because we need support in that area and we need people to kind of call us out on our own in a critic talk and get us back on track yeah I think it's hard isn't it that first you know like you said when you met your boyfriends you know said like oh god you've you think I'm like this actually like I kind of feel like I have this demon and that sometimes I like are you gonna accept that as well and like obviously you know people will accept that generally speaking that people are very understanding and like lovely and if you speak to someone they're never going to do anything

other than care they won't pass judgment because actually a lot of the time as well with women when I've spoken about it with my friends they have some kind of demon or something that you know they want to speak about too or so yeah I think talking about things obviously I think we all have that thing that we think about ourselves that makes us feel we are unworthy of love of belonging and of being that we're not enough yeah and that thing can just it's so sad because like you said if we shared it and we're a little bit more honest with each other we'd recognize that actually it's all very human we all have our flaws we all have our demons and it's just like part of the tapestry of life

but when we internalize it you think oh if they knew this about me they wouldn't love me and it's so untrue and it's been through and it sounds like it's the same for you just being vulnerable enough to share that regardless of the fear that comes up around it and having a new experience that can then counter at that thought and I think that that you know for anyone listening was the best piece of advice I could give on this subject it's like have someone that you could share that with and it will give you such a profound and new experience that when that thought comes back you can refer to that because when it's just you in your own head it's like they think the voice in your head's like no no this is what would happen it's a bit like when you said earlier when you thought people were having a bad time you know it's like it's like

they're having a terrible time I know it's like that wasn't even true having a great time it's like you're just trying to yeah I think just trying to have like more yeah positive outlook on things as well I guess and I hope that like when you tell people those things they'll receive it in a positive way that you've shared it and it's only a positive thing that you are sharing that and then that's on the route to like helping you and making your life healing and healing and yeah exactly yeah maybe one day I'll like speak more on it and things but I think until I think I've not maybe fully processed it maybe myself as well so I think that's something that I want to do like before like speaking about it speaking about it and I think as well I don't

want to be I'm more than what that girl was or you know it's part of me but I'm I'm more than you know I don't know it's just an experience that you have. And like, that's the thing. We are so many different things simultaneously and all those things can coexist together. And that's part of the beauty of the whole thing. And so I think it's amazing that you shared that, to be honest. No, and I love that about you can coexist.

I actually, one of my good friends she was saying had a big conversation with her recently about you know she's a business owner um she gets anxiety and she was like you know and I feel that's like a shame that um you know how could she be like a businesswoman and have anxiety and things it's like you can coexist like I'm like I'm a bit scatty and I have to make sure that I'm so organized I can still be like business owner and have my shit together but also like parts of my life you it's your personality and it's part of you and I think it's so important to like allow that to coexist like it's not this life of like perfection and yeah yeah I've been thinking this a lot recently and

I think especially you know we are moving into a time where people are a bit more open to people being multiple things which is great and that's been happening for a while but there is still quite this binary thing and I notice it in my mind where it's like I on a more personal level let's say within my friendships and relationships that I can oscillate from different aspects of my character that I can be incredibly shy and anxious but I can also be like vivacious and outgoing and like the life and soul and those things can coexist but sometimes I'm like does that make me crazy maybe it does but then also from a more professional standpoint or the the persona

and version of me that exists outside in you know I guess through social media in the world like I'll put up a makeup video but then last week I was like joined a girl's football team and again those things can coexist like like those things light me up equally. It doesn't mean that I'm one or the other, but I think we always feel like, oh, if I do this, that means I have to have these qualities and be this kind of person

and dress in this kind of way. Yeah, a hundred percent. Like even at the podcast there, I was like, oh gosh, what, you know, what t-shirt do I, what top do I put on? Three times. So I was like, oh God, that's far too casual. And then like, i was like i said do i put blazer on i was like oh it's just

like me but like you know i'm a business woman so i have to be and i was like oh i don't know black go easy like i would have loved it if you turned up in a blazer yeah i mean but that's like the the thing that we're programming because it's like you have to be perceived in a way that's like good enough but it's like nothing to do with like what you wear or your anxiety or whatever it is it's it's what you you know what you're bringing to the table and those different aspects of your life um I want to ask though because you just said about your you're like really on or like you're really shy and like reserved and stuff when you're like we on because I like find this in terms of like a business thing if I've got to go to meetings or event or anything I could be so like on and on

but then I'm like anyone gosh, anyone speaks to me, I think I might cry. I'm so the same. And again, sometimes I'm like, does that make me a little, because it's quite manic. And then I'm like,

nobody, nobody speak to me for a week. Yeah. But I have, the most important thing for me is having people that, that I work with understand that because they can recognize it which is fantastic so I'll be like and then they'll notice that I've gone a little quiet because it switches like that yeah and then I'll be and they're like okay she's done let's go yeah which is I guess it's like, I don't know, extrovert, introvert, where you're like an extrovert, but then you need to, like, read.

I get my energy from being alone, but equally in small doses. Yes. I love being around people. But for me, it's taken me a while to recognize, but I love working on my own, like working from home. But I also equally love being on a stage and having a big audience and so but it's kind of one or the other I don't really care for whatever the in between is but I feel equally at home in both settings so I've just kind of learned to roll with that really what about you yeah I think just very similar I mean I'm not on a stage singing um that would be

quite horrifying um and on any stage if I like I once had to do say thank you to these people for coming to this event and it's with this brand not you know I wasn't that particularly passionate about and then I just had to say thank you to everyone and I genuinely almost cried because I was so nervous and like oh my god like people are all looking at me at once with saying something that I'm I don't feel like I'm like thanks for coming and like honestly I I probably well that everyone must have oh she's so she loves this so much I was just like horrified to be up there and when I did a workout um recently one of the first workout events I mean I was like shaking like a leaf I was like okay everyone welcome I think everyone's looking at me like are you okay are you ready for this workout

I think that's the point of like caring and it being one of the first times I've done it the second time I did it recently I was far more relaxed and like really loved it and you know I love being around people and encouraging people and everything like that um so I think it was just more of a you rip the band-aid off the first time it's always going to feel worse and then the more you do something you know the much easier it's going to be totally you've just got to rip off the band-aid like you say and do it but it's interesting that that doesn't it doesn't sound like it translates to social media because obviously you've got a huge following and I find I would find that scary because you know you have a million plus people that are

watching your life and commenting do you not get nervous about that yeah well i mean i probably probably don't do stories very well i'm saying you probably noticed you're like i don't follow you that close no so i don't do stories really very often because, so I've got, I'm dyslexic as well. This is something I want to talk to you about because I'm also dyslexic. Aren't you? Yeah, I am. And this was kind of the next theme that I wanted to explore was how has that played a part in your life, but also with you running these businesses and stepping into this role as being a businesswoman and like a powerhouse in that sense, how have those things coexisted?

So I did when I think I did a post because I always got on my social media. I mean, I spell everything wrong. My grammar is really not that good. I'm working on it. Yesterday I did a, I had to like reply to this email and I was like Alex can you and then he's like I'm just doing something can you do it and I was like oh fine so I did it and then I constructed it and he was like you can do it you just don't like to and you know do you think that's true though no I think I'm like I just know that what what I want to like portray that I'll voice note lots of things and say like okay with my within my team when you know there's an article or anything I'll voice note and that's how it works because I can

get things across I think a lot better like vocally or they'll understand what I'm trying to say rather than me spend like triple quadruple amount of time trying to write something where it takes that person 10 minutes to just like you know completely agree is what I've said um so it might be true that you can do it but it would just take you a lot longer and be a lot more like stressful you doing versus delegating it to someone else yes 100 exactly but yeah I think for example yeah my social media people like that's not how you spell things and you know because people online just love a correction as well I think that's what you'll find yeah some people as well just you know they're waiting for you to do something slightly off or whatever so they can say I know or you know that's not how yeah not the right there your that's not the right

your you just move on I'm trying to write something like nicely positive I think I did something recently about my scalp and I spelt it sculpt and people were scared like what's happening and I was like oh I'm sorry everyone um but everyone's like very supportive about it um online and I think yeah I opened up the conversation and I had so many women um and like mums actually as well saying about their kids their daughters saying this is like so helpful to know that it's not something that is um a hindrance it's just that you're learning you're the way you think differently and the way you think is just different which is like special and it doesn't it's not it's not a bad thing um and I think in school and stuff I was for example I was put in like the bottom class and stuff I felt

like I was more ahead of some people in the class, but I just needed a different technique of learning, I think. And that's such an important thing. I'd love to tap into more at some point is to have the right support there for people who are dyslexic and everyone just learns a different time. And yeah, I completely agree. Because when I was at school and I think it's changed a bit, but not that much. My stepdad always, always joke, because he's also dyslexic, and he always jokes, he was like, when I was at school, it was just called thick. But when I was at school, you know, I had extra time and everything. And there still, to a degree, is a bit of shame around it, because there are certain things that

I just still quite can't quite grasp that I feel like adults should and so I often how it manifests for me and how it can be a sort of hindrance is if I don't know how to do something which is quite frequent I don't know how to ask or I'll just kind of shut down because I'm like oh I don't want people to know that I can't do that really simple thing and so but it's it's weird it's like the way my mind would do like a maths equation or spelling or remembering things it's all sort of like topsy-turvy and and there are certain things in driving which might make people think I shouldn't be on the roads but I'll see signs and I'll see them like the other way around when I first look at them yeah you know like I can't quite work out whether it's telling me I can't go right or can't go left

yeah just stay away from Kagi if you see her no but it's computing things slightly differently but I mean like I can like probably tell you and what you do and stuff I'm way more like can probably tell with you and what you do and stuff I'm way more like creative and like with ideas and stuff and I'll come up with you know the strategy and ideas and that kind of things because that's just where I'll you know your strengths are that's where my strengths are and stuff and I'm never going to be good at like writing essays or um you know thing things like that but I don't need to be good at that and I think it's okay to not be good at every single thing within the business because

that's why you have an incredible team around you to pick up where you're you lack in your strength um and have those people who can just like compliment you and I think to have them people that like get your vision I think that's very I think I have very like specific vision with how I want things and for people to get that and be able to like bring it to the table I think it's the art of delegation isn't it because I used it's taken me a while to figure that out and I used to just try and do everything myself and then not get anywhere so how long did it take you to find that team and recognize that in yourself i don't know probably well i mean we started building the app me and my husband during lockdown um and we kind of we do cross over a lot because

he's actually very creative with things and he has like great ideas and stuff as well. But he's much more like, maybe like more like finance and numbers and, you know, things like that. What star sign is he? He's a Leo. Okay. What did you think he was going to be? I was wondering if he was a Capricorn. No.

So very good with numbers and finance and things like that yeah nice easily building things apparently in areas I'm gonna be good that's what I hear so you guys work together on that yes yes we did um so and then we had a um like a dev team who obviously all the app developers and stuff because we basically used to have it where it was the framework of the apps already built, and then it's just my content, but wanted to, like, make it so much more global and size up and make it something way bigger and make something of it that can be, like, long-term and just, like, something really, like,

proud to be a part of. Like, you know, I always wanted to – it used to be called, like, Fit with Steph. I wanted to have it – it it it's like now it's We Glow so it's something in a community so that you can bring other people onto it um like have other trainers because like not everyone's gonna like the way I look or find me inspiring or want to do my workouts so I think it's good to have you know know, a variety of women who you can relate to, like a variety of movement, etc. So and that's when we probably really started expanding our team was 2020, 2019. Well, I think I think everything that you're doing and have done is so inspiring to people.

And definitely for, you know know young women listening that perhaps might have dyslexia or some sort of learning i hate the word difficulty but that's just what they what they say and that can often make things feel limited and also there is there is a very real limitation that's felt if whether or not it's real or not is a different story for women in general about starting their own businesses and it's still pretty male dominated space and you know in terms of like getting things off the ground so what would your advice be for anyone listening that might be thinking oh I'm you know dyslexic or I can't I can't possibly do that and I don't know where to begin what would your advice be so I think you have do that and I don't know where to begin, what would your advice be?

So I think you have to do things you don't enjoy. Unfortunately, with that, I think when you're just, like, for me, I'm like, you just said a second ago, oh, like, you can't, you don't want to do it, and you just think you can't do it, it's taking you forever. Like, shut off. I think asking for help, like, okay, I actually need to do this, I need to learn to do this properly, it's going to take me but once you get it I feel like you really get it that's with anyone else they're like you know editing or understanding like different things I mean

honestly with like technology I'm I am actually pretty bad even like the setup of this call I was thinking oh no even with this don't worry I still struggle someone came to my house the other day they were like do you not want a bit more of an evolved podcast equipment I was like I actually got sent one but it looks too complicated I don't know how to use it you don't even but you'll just like leave it and you won't even like I just it seems too much this is fine and actually the way I'm doing it is probably more difficult well I'm like look it's the way I know it I'm just gonna stick in my lane exactly stick to what you know um what else I think yeah sometimes everything you have to do things that you're

you don't necessarily like love to do but I think play to your strengths and yeah for me I think with like my ideas and um I'm more creative I think just like putting those out there um and it is like you have to work it is you know it's not this case of like oh something happens and you like something will come from it like everyone of course like you can get lucky but you have to be in the right place and you have to be prepared the right place and have to be prepared prepared when if that opportunity or you know that point of luck comes up that you're prepared to be able to take it on but I think I've always been very like my sister says I've been very um I'm always with attitude like it's gonna be fine and I'll just like go for it I'm like I'd

rather like take the risk and it might pay off it might not but I've had things which have really tanked and not done well at all but you know from each of those things like I've learned so much from it which has led me to be able to um you know build what I hope is going to be you know my my businesses that are going to be successful and ask your empire yeah but it's you know it's not always easy and I think you've just got to acknowledge that but if you love it I think as well you have to be have the enjoyment there because otherwise it's just going to feel like it takes a hit and a toll and you're getting no reward I think that's great advice I think that's honestly such good advice because like you said you like failure is an inevitability really in things

and actually it's when we pick up the most experiences and the most knowledge of how to get things right like I've messed up so many things and as well partly to do with my tendency to perhaps not understand how things work and therefore not want to know yes and then get myself into trouble later down the line where i'm like oh i probably should have looked into that a little bit more whereas now even though i hate it i try and be really disciplined with all those granular details and like you said as well having people around you that you can really trust yeah I think that's definitely definitely important yeah share like the same like values and vision and I'm like sure you're where you spoke about your team earlier

about how they understand you they can compliment you yeah exactly like you're all understanding of each other and it's kind of yeah and it's got you've got to have fun as well with it because otherwise... What's the point? What's the point? Yeah, exactly. That last bit of role, motivational. And on that note... I mean, I could talk to you for days and there are other things I'd love to discuss with you,

but perhaps we'll save it for another time because we'd love to have you back on the show and thank you so much for joining me today, it's been really special Thank you for having me If you enjoyed this episode of Saturn Returns, I would love it if you could share it with a friend you think might find it useful or write us

a review on Apple because this gets us discovered by more like-minded people like i said at the start of the episode i love talking with steph because it felt like i was just catching up with a friend there are a lot of synchronicities and similarities between us and it was just a lot of fun and we covered a lot of ground and she was very open and vulnerable and i hope it inspires you to not see your perceived or society's perceived limitations, such as things like dyslexia, as obstacles and actually see them as a superpower. It's been a unanimous theme of people that have come on the podcast that somehow

they've managed to transmute something that might be seen as a weakness and turn it into their strength so perhaps consider the things that you think about yourself that aren't strong and actually reframe that for instance i was always considered so sensitive that i wouldn't survive in the world and actually i feel like creating this podcast is how i've alchemized that so I will leave you with that thought remember you can pre-order the Saturn Returns book and buy tickets to the Saturn Returns show that is happening in January or you can book a reading with our astrological guide Nora thank you so much for listening to this episode of Saturn Returns and remember you are not alone. Goodbye. you