Saturn Returns with Caggie - *Magic Moments* Navigating breakups: Special solo episode with Caggie

Episode Date: January 11, 2023

In the lead up to the release of Caggie's first book Saturn Returns. This special mini series brings her favourite moments from the last three years back to the forefront: "Today I’m bringing you another high note from Saturn Returns. In my first book Saturn Returns there is a big chapter in the book about love and relationships and it seems many of the episodes I’ve done, I steer the conversation in that direction. So, today’s favourite episode is a solo one. It was the first solo episode I ever did but it seemed to have resonated with many of you and I have to admit I’ve listened to many times since and had to take on my own advice, so I wanted to share it again in case anyone needs to listen to this advice right now. " In this episode Caggie handpicks a few of your relationship questions and, using her own experiences and what she's learnt through her Saturn returns, goes deep on the subject of relationships and how to navigate breakups. She talks staying on your own path, processing pain and finding closure.   --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. Today I'm bringing you another high note from the back catalogue of Saturn Returns. In the build up to the book launch, which I am super excited excited about and also the live podcast that we're doing on the 18th and 19th of January we've got shows in London at Cadogan Hall in Chelsea and in Manchester at Stoller Hall so I hope to see you there we're going to be centering these shows around the theme of relationships there is a big chapter in the book about these themes. And it seems many of the episodes I've done, I seem to always steer the conversation in that direction. And also judging by the listens and the downloads, you guys seem to like these topics too. It was the first solo episode I did back in season one.

And I remember at the time my producers thought I was insane, that I was going to essentially do a monologue for one of the episodes. But it seemed to have resonated with many of you and sort of acted like this toolkit for those navigating a breakup. I have to admit, I've listened to it many times since and had to take on my own advice so I wanted to share it again in case anyone needs to listen to this advice right now and if you are going through a breakup I feel you I know how painful that is but there is always hope on the other side and you will get through it. So I'm sending you lots of love.

And if you would like to join us in January to unpack the complexities of modern dating and relationships, I would love to see you there. You can find ticket links in the show notes. And I hope you enjoy this solo episode from 2020. Lots of love. solo episode from 2020. Lots of love. Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me Kagi Dunlop. This is a new podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. This is my first solo Saturn Returns episode and I mean this could be a complete disaster of an episode but I wanted to do it for a while and it felt like it was an appropriate time to do this one. So I like to think of it as a conversation with you guys, even though it's going to be more of a monologue. And please take everything I say with a pinch of salt. I'm by no means a therapist and this is just my own personal advice and it might resonate and help some of you. It may be completely

useless. It might be entertaining. It might be drivel. Who knows what's going to happen? But yeah, today I'm going to be talking about breakups and relationships I haven't prepared too much because that's just me and I wanted to just see what happens here I've selected some of your comments and questions based off what I put up on social media and try to like pick together a couple of themes that have that have prevailed in like what we were discussing because I think at the moment with you know being someone that's single in isolation from a lot of you who I've connected to who have sent me messages and stuff I'm feeling this energy of worry around your relationship status whether that's you're not sure whether you're with the

right person or you've broken up with someone and you're uncertain because of this this in between I like to call it and this restless unease and being alone and I think it's a really important thing to discuss but I'm just going to dive in with one of your questions. So this is the first one. Could you talk about how long it takes to move on from someone? And first, loves. How do we know what is love and what is infatuation? Love you, Kegs. She's saying love you, Kegs.

I'm not saying it to myself. Well, thank you very much. I love you too. And how long does it take to get over someone? Oh, I mean, my dear, that's like saying how long is a piece of string? Unfortunately, there is no end date with that. I've been with people for up to a year that it's taken me a matter of weeks to get over. I've been with people for a matter of weeks that it's taken me years to get over. There's really no way of measuring it.

But what I will say is there are things that you can do in the midst of a breakup to make that process. I wouldn't say necessarily quicker because I think it's just a process that needs to unfold in its own way. unfold in its own way. I went through a breakup when I was 25 that derailed me like you would not believe. I was madly in love with this person and to go back to this question perhaps it was infatuation but considering how long it lasted and the effect it had on me for, I mean, years, it's hard to put that down to infatuation. I think sometimes it's a combination. And this was someone that, I mean, when we first met, we, this is ridiculous and quite embarrassing, but I think we said I love you on the first date. Classic me, just going straight on in there and the thing is when I you know when I said that I meant it but I couldn't possibly have really meant it because you just don't know someone

in that space of time I'm a bit of a believer in love at first sight but then perhaps it's infatuation love now I approach in a very different way it's something that you have to nurture and that you have to grow but often when we meet someone we have that insane chemistry and that infatuation we just attach all these expectations onto each other and we become completely married to this fantasy of this person and then if you move too fast you get hit with the reality that perhaps, you know, they aren't that person and they come with their own baggage and their own flaws and their own expectations that they have on you. And this can cause quite a lot of conflict. And so this relationship was very, very, very turbulent. Like it was either I was on cloud nine or I was just so low, so depressed.

And it didn't help that at the time I was pretty extreme in nature and myself. I don't think I really knew who I was. And he definitely came along at a moment where I was feeling very insecure with my path. And this is something also that a lot of people have sent in this idea of abandoning your own path and I very much at that age that is what I did in relationships like someone will come along and it would just be abandon everything go on their path join them be joint at the hip like what they like do what they do and you know sometimes it was fantastic but inevitably you always have to go back to your own journey.

So when I was with this person, yeah, it was very, it was quite toxic to say the least. And when it eventually ended, it was dramatic and painful and awful. and awful and I remember it just got to the point where I was like I actually cannot be with this person and it not be an act of self-harm because you'd have to use your imagination with the different ways it was it was fucked up like as in just the things that were happening you just couldn't really even believe and I remember I went to I was in London and we'd had another huge argument about something and I was like I was at the train station and I remember I went to I was in London and we'd had another huge argument about something and I was like I was at the train station and I was going to go to the Isle of Wight to see my mum and this person was calling me and calling me and calling me and I was about to get on the train and

it was such a sliding doors moment it was like do I get on the train do I end it do I go and see my mum and like cut this off or do I go back into the ring for another round and I thankfully got on the train and went to see my mom but I remember for the for the first couple of days and even like I mean this went on this really to be honest with you went on in a way with me for years I was just beside myself I had never experienced heartbreak like that and my world revolved around that person it the way I can kind of describe it is like when I was with them the color of everything was more vibrant and when I wasn't everything just felt a bit like it was black and white and I became addicted to that

intensity and I became addicted to that person and you know they say like the when you're addicted to another human being that is the greatest drug of all and I very much was and that breakup just it was one of the most painful things I've ever experienced but it gave me some of the most valuable lessons I have ever learned because I I mean, I had two relationships since then, very significant relationships. And what I will say is that after that, I rushed into something quite quickly. Not always. But sometimes when we do that, we're disregarding the grief and the process we need to really accept what's happened. I look at it as like sometimes when people rush into another relationship, it's like putting a plaster on something, but it's not actually letting it breathe. It's not letting it heal and we often what we do is we'll go to another person

that represents a lot of what the former person lacked so if you're with someone that's never there and really unreliable suddenly you'll meet someone and and they're just like totally there for you and really reliable but after a while you might realize that actually that's perhaps not what you really need you want something that's a bit more in the middle so that's one point I just say to allow yourself the space in between breaking up with someone I've seen it so many times when people just rush into something else and now I'm such a believer in honoring that space and anyway so that relationship that I went into definitely represented so much of what the last person didn't and it was an amazing relationship in so many ways and eventually I did heal but I would say even after that relationship ended I still had stuff from that

first guy that I was just not I hadn't really really addressed. I just buried it. And you have to address that stuff at some point. It's going to come up and it's going to manifest in weird ways in your life later on in different relationships if you don't really deal with it. So cut to now at the age I'm at, or actually, well, just before Christmas, I went through a very painful breakup. And it was similar in the sense that I was madly in love with this person. I wouldn't say that my world revolved around them like it had when I was 25.

But we were building a life together. And we had expectations and we had a future in mind and this is another important thing that I want to touch on in a minute but when I realized when the sort of veil was lifted and I realized that this person perhaps wasn't who I thought they were and it's not to say that they you know that they weren't wonderful but it just wasn't my person um the heartbreak again that I went through is it's like the the rug is pulled from underneath you and you just like fucking body slammed onto the floor and it's it's like being winded and it's so painful but from having that experience when I was 25 I knew to basically do everything the opposite way and I didn't run away from the pain

and this is a really important thing you need to also bear in mind that initially when you go through any trauma and breakups can of course be incredibly traumatic there's going to be so much pain there that you may not deal with it immediately you might not actually be equipped you might not have the support around you and for me making sure that I had friends and actually I was incredibly lucky that certain friendships came into my life literally like a rotational door I mean he left and this best friend came in and it was just like a gift from the universe it was like we're going to help you get through this and and here's a little a little way we're going to do that and for me that platonic love having those people that can show up for you I remember I had um a photo shoot quite soon after and it was at this hotel and

the hotel had said oh we can give you the room the suite for the night and which was amazing and very generous of them and I suddenly was like I have no one to be here with and that kind of stuff is just so triggering and it just can unearth all of that hurt all over again and I called my friend Maddy Shaw and I was like, look, I don't know what you're doing, but I've got this hotel. And do you want to come and hang? And very sweetly, I mean, Mads is one of my bestest, oldest friends. And she came over right away and we had like the most lovely evening

and we just went out for dinner and she came and stayed the night in this hotel with me. And it was just having that comfort of someone else there that sort of sense of companionship and I think when a relationship ends there's so many elements of it that we miss it's important to try and consider like what parts we can bring in without rushing into something else too soon bringing those parts in with also honoring the pain and by that I mean the companionship that we have from a relationship if you can bring some friends in and just like have them come and sit with you or come and stay

the night and have a sleepover like we did and I mean like at 30 that's quite a sweet thing to do those kind of relationships are so important having someone to talk to and just also just be with but also to honor everything that's coming up for you so making sure you have an environment that allows you to process what you need to process to heal I went away for a work trip at this time so I went to Stockholm to do some some writing I was like well maybe I can put it into something productive and it was it was one of the worst things ever I don't think I stopped crying for those three days because I suddenly put myself in an environment that was unfamiliar you know I didn't have my bed I didn't have my familiarity I didn't have my family

so I think be really aware like when you're going through a breakup to to have certain practices and people and things that make you feel comforted that make you feel grounded something I lent massively into as well during this time was my spirituality and the kind of weird and wonderful things that I talk about on this podcast I I went probably a little bit heavy on like my star sign and what was going on with the planets. And whether that means anything to anyone, I found it incredibly comforting because it made me not only feel part of a group of people that perhaps were experiencing something similar,

but also that there was a rhythm and a structure, in a way, to what was happening. I think when we go through something like that kind of trauma, we can very, very easily fall into victim mode. And this is something that throughout my twenties, I definitely did a lot of. I went into victimhood mode big time. So I had to shift out of this victimhood mode. and that was like a really transformational moment for me because when you shift out of victimhood mode you become a master of your fate rather than at the mercy of it so even when things happen like if someone cheats

on you or like someone breaks up with you if you can step out of that space and go into a more empowered consciousness you find a reason in everything. And even when this happened to me, because I'd made that shift already, there wasn't one moment, I don't think, where I really felt victimized by the situation. I think a lot of people in my situation would have. I just felt like this is something shit that's happened,

but I'm going to use it to better myself. And I'm going to use it to better myself. And I'm going to use it to heal myself because I also believe relationships come into your life, people come into your life that show you, that shine a light on what is already inside that needs to be healed. So I don't want to go into too much detail about what my stuff was because I do kind of want to protect this person too. there had been a pattern of relationship in my in my life and this one did fall into the same category but what I really had to turn around and look at was myself and how that actually was something I possessed in me that was something I was seeking out in partners on a subconscious level that I needed to heal and acknowledge. And that was like a massively eye-opening experience.

So how to move on to someone, how long it takes. Like I said, there isn't a way of measuring that. And grief, because it is grief we experience when a relationship ends. More than anything, what we grieve is our future. When we meet someone, we attach subconsciously and consciously so many expectations onto them about how our life is going to unravel with this person. So when a breakup happens, we are having to detach ourselves from that. I guess in a way it's a fantasy because our future is never really known. It's never really certain. But as human beings, we really enjoy the idea that it is. And so a massive learning curve for me was letting go of that. And even now,

I have to catch myself and I definitely have not got this perfected at all but when we meet somebody we do it instantly you know I joke with my girlfriend sometimes when they when they go on dates with someone and they're like it's super early numbers have barely been exchanged it's like I go because suddenly our mind has just gone a million miles an hour and I think me and Shona touched on this in our episode that Disney has a huge responsibility of that that we we have this complex of we need to be saved and we're just in the waiting room for a man to come the knight in shining armor to save the damsel in distress. And so when we meet someone,

that's often the narrative that we run down. So I have to catch myself now. And it's all good and well indulging in a fantasy, but be aware that it is a fantasy. So when you meet somebody and you think of all the things it could possibly be, enjoy that by all means, but be aware that

it's not actually real. It might go that way. Great if it does, but it might not. And you have to be okay with that. And so when you go through a breakup with someone, you're having to let that future self and that future relationship idea you had die. There's a death there. And grief doesn't work in a linear fashion. It's not something that has, oh, you know when they say, oh, if you've been with someone a year, it will take you half the time or with them to get over it. I think that's bullshit.

I really don't think that's true at all. I think you can't measure love. You can't measure the impact it has on one human being versus another it's it's a wonderful thing and I don't think to be honest I don't think it ever really leaves I don't think I don't want to say you never really get over someone of course you do but it it just transforms and my advice would be the quicker you allow yourself to process the pain the quicker the recovery and the quicker the closure but one thing I actually caught myself doing was because I was trying to figure out how and if I could have this person in my life in any

other capacity and I would oscillate between myself being the victim or him being the victim and the other one being the perpetrator and it would just be this dance so if we did communicate and I was compassionate and kind and that felt good at the time but then perhaps I felt a bit drained afterwards I would then go into this narrative of like I let my values go and I let my guard down and I shouldn't have, and he doesn't deserve that. But something I've realized recently is your self-worth shouldn't be conditional on that either. Who you are and the strength you have and the integrity is not dependent on that other person, even in the midst of a breakup. You can be compassionate and you can

be strong. Those aren't mutually exclusive. You don't have to build an armor around you to be strong. And I think it's such a difficult one because it's not prescriptive. It's very individual. And if someone's being damaging to you and they're being emotionally abusive and all this stuff, by all means, like you will probably have to build up some walls to protect yourself. But when I talked about this with Taco Par in our episode around belonging, is that this idea of leaving well,

to be able to leave a relationship gracefully, to honour the experience, even if the demise was hurtful, and to appreciate all the demise was hurtful. And to appreciate all the love that you had. Now that's a really tricky thing to do because I think when a breakup happens, especially if the person's hurt us, that's all we see afterwards. But you have to watch yourself from over identifying with that because I realized that I was over identifying with the demise and I was attaching my worth in a way onto that or my lack of worth onto that and again like people are complicated and people are all like what your experience of someone coming into

your life like they're having their own experience of the role you play in their life and their own expectations that may or may not be being met and it's a really hard one but I think honoring that process and sitting with that pain and I think perhaps some people listening might be being like well what does sitting with the pain mean but what I do is I get myself into a really comfortable situation like I make sure I'm looking after myself I've been doing yoga I've been seeing friends I've been journaling I've been having lovely long hot baths. I've been eating well. And when I feel ready, I think about what happened, but I'm not weaving the story of it. I'm thinking about it from more of an objective perspective

and I'm accepting it rather than battling with what was or what wasn't or what is or what might be. I'm not wrestling with it. I'm accepting it. And it's this weird feeling that kind of I then put in the center of my body and I don't battle with it. I then let my body kind of absorb it and not in a way of letting it consume me. It's like a way of processing it and and letting it go back into the ground.

And I do this every so often and it just goes. It just flows out of me. And I don't know whether that's helpful for anyone, but I found it incredibly helpful. Also, something to acknowledge is often with breakups, like I said, because people will come into our life that are sent to trigger certain parts of us that need healing. And a huge, huge, huge part of that is that there's going to be a child version of us that is going to be set off by that person,

by perhaps what they have done. So let's just say, for instance, there's like infidelity and you had like a family where one of your parents cheated. And, you know, like there's a lot of stuff like that. Alain de Bottin does a book and it's called How to Find Love. And he talks about this kind of stuff.

So that's really fascinating if anyone's interested to like delve into that a little bit more. So one thing to be aware of is when measuring your response, as Mark Groves, who is my absolute hero, says, if it's hysterical, it's historical. So when someone does something, you as an adult can be upset and feel betrayed and disappointed and all these things, all these very warranted feelings. But often the abandonment that you feel is from the child version of you because almost a universal thing is that we all fear abandonment. We all have been abandoned. I mean, my therapist told me this and it kind of blew my mind, but when we are born that is like

our first moment of like feeling like we're abandoned we come out of the womb and we're separated from our mother and there are all these various stages of like abandonment and feeling rejection so that's when we're like super triggered in relationships so I think it's having that awareness as well of yourself as a child versus yourself now. This is one of the most empowering things I've ever done because I can notice which one is responding. Both are feeling, my adult self is definitely not by any means like not emotionally reactive, but if it's hysterical, if it's like unmeasured to what's going on it could be triggering a childhood wound that you need to address might not be but it could be so that's something I think we

should all be able to take a bit of responsibility in in a relationship because we often look at relationships to be like our saviors and heal all that stuff that's not not what they're there to do they're there to actually show us what needs to be healed ourselves so I'm gonna move on because I'm waffling waffling waffling away um I was hoping you could address something you talked about in your last episode about losing yourself when you're in a relationship and how you jump onto the other person's path rather than yourself felt very relatable everything in that podcast I related to but felt your only response was to not be with that person but I am completely in love and he is perfect for me in so many ways so I wanted to know another way of building myself but within the relationship rather than the easier route to just break up ps love your podcast so much thank you um okay yeah me and shona went into went went in on this

and i realized actually that i didn't really give an alternative by no means do i think that you should therefore leave the relationship at allicing staying on path and staying in your own lane is a practice. It's not something that suddenly you have to do. It's not something that you have to do an extreme thing to shift. It's lots of little things. And I think also something that just popped into my mind, be super aware of not projecting that onto your partner by saying, I don't live my own life I live yours blah blah blah that is your responsibility at the end of the day if you're with someone that lives their life and you're doing it like that is your responsibility of

course we can be with people that are quite like manipulative or dominating in the relationship but if they're doing their thing and you're doing their thing, that is a choice that you're making, right? We're always responsible for this ourselves. And it's been a massive, massive thing for me. And it'd be interesting for when I actually am challenged with my new relationship, how I deal with it. But what I will say is during my Saturn return was when I really started to sort of cultivate and practice my own values and being like, okay, I as a person what do I want rather than just morphing myself all the time and people pleasing and just adapting to everybody and shape-shifting the entire time which was becoming exhausting I then went through this very difficult period of

tests basically of being tested and my response a lot of the time was like, okay, I'm just going to isolate myself. And that is not an answer. So to use another example, I was living in LA. I was on path, let's say. I was doing the right things. I was looking after myself. I felt focused. I felt like I knew what I wanted and what I was doing. myself I felt focused I felt like I knew what I wanted what I was doing and I went out for dinner with some friends and this person arrived who was from my past I hadn't seen them in about 10 years and I'd always like I'd been very attracted to them and it was frightening how quickly I abandoned myself in literally like 24 hours. I was drinking again. I was partying again. Like I went out like an old caggy straight away in literally like the flick of a switch because I wanted to be who this person wanted. I wanted to go along with what they were doing,

what they were thinking, how they were behaving. I still couldn't stand in my own values. Because when you do, you risk rejection. And of course, most of us most of the time don't want to be rejected. So we will do whatever it takes to avoid that. However, you face the rejection of self when you do that. And trust me, that is a more painful process to come to terms with. So it's not easy. It's not comfortable. And just to go back to that story, it didn't end badly, but I definitely disrupted my life in a way that was not necessary. It was not progressive. I just completely abandoned everything. And then after it kind of fizzled out I was like wow I was quick to do that that didn't take much for me to just completely jump ship

and it's because it was so inbuilt in me to do so but then when with the last relationship I had I was with someone that was like incredibly supportive and made me feel very very secure and I think I felt comfortable enough to be like, you know, these are the things I need to exercise for myself to really like hold firm what I'm about and what I stand for and that make me happy independent of you. And it's a bit of an icky process because there's a bit of a tug of war that goes on. But people aren't going to just know what your needs are telepathically. You have to communicate your needs to the other person. And that can be uncomfortable because they might not be able to deliver them. But it's far better to know that they can't deliver them at the beginning than try and make them telepathically guess and then not know and then just get frustrated at

hell because you've just rejected yourself in that process. So being able to communicate that and step into that place of vulnerability that's perhaps a little bit uncomfortable, but first you have to be super clear on what those things are. What are your non-negotiables? What are your needs? When you go into any relationship, you need to be clear on those things because you can't expect someone to establish your boundaries for you. People are always going to push. People are always going to want to take. Even when you're madly in love with someone, sometimes those are the times when you want to take the most. You have to exercise your boundaries and what they are at the beginning. And that's how you build the foundation of a

healthy relationship that's how you build trust and you have to compromise sometimes as well so I hope that kind of answers that question okay exes and the idea of soulmates if they're meant for you, they'll find a way back philosophy. Yeah, this is a tricky one. Because people say it all the time and it's really annoying, isn't it? And people are like, oh, what's meant for you will always find its way back to you. It's like, really? Will it though?

And I think one of the fears when we do go through a breakup is we sometimes let go with hope. Especially when something ends that you don't actually want it to, but you perhaps had to. And we kind of hold on to this idea of potential. And that they're going to grow into the potential. And together you're going to grow into the potential of what you hope that relationship will realize and I guess I do believe in this and I don't I think that when you leave a relationship you have to leave it with the knowing that that might not happen I think sometimes being married to that idea can be dangerous because the way I see it and I did this with my um with my last relationship I it was like I was saying

and doing all the right things and the way I communicated with him was like exactly like I was doing it and I was like wow I have done the work and it shows because I know how that by staying with this person right now I'm abandoning my values and my integrity and what I expect from a relationship so I need to walk away however I was still harboring this this hope that began actually to become something quite destructive and it can be a great thing but it began to be destructive for me because I was walking away and I was holding on at the same time which meant that I had this resistance to actually move on and so what I'll say to that is like being able to trust but not be attached to it I know that

sounds sort of counterintuitive and to trust that like the person you want might not be that person but that that person will come along and I think when we're with someone of course we love them so much we want them to be our person we want them to fill that role we want them to fit that narrative and when something happens that disrupts that being able to still hold place for that person without knowing who it is it's quite a powerful thing and accepting one chapter ending but opening up and being inviting whatever's next because you just don't know you never know what's around the corner and I will say that sometimes by holding on to hope too much we can stop ourselves from moving on like I said it's like walking away with a rubber band around your wrist like just be mindful

of that you don't have to run you don't have to do it You don't have to do it immediately, but just have the awareness of what you're holding on to. And when your mind goes into that fantasy land about that person, like also someone told me when I was going through my breakup about euphoric recall and how when a relationship ends, we look back and we're just like, oh my God, that person, that person was Jesus. They were amazing wow and it's this weird survival thing that we do where we suddenly see everything through rose-tinted glasses and forget

everything that was wrong with the relationship which there was often a lot so just being like realistic about what that relationship was what it held what it taught you and not putting so much pressure on it being the be-all and end-all and the one you know just taking in like everything you learn how you're going to grow in your next relationship because the relationships are trial and error at the end of the day we we have to have the experiences in order to to know how to how to be okay hi kagi firstly absolutely adore you and your work thank you very much we'd love to hear your thoughts experience about when you feel you have let someone go after just over a year but begin to realize maybe subconsciously you're still holding on in the form of sabotaging yourself from new relationships, being open in the first place to really getting to know people on a deep level. Essentially how

to get past it for real and make sure your subconscious is on the same page as your conscious thought. I love this. Yes, your subconscious being on the same page as your subconscious thought. Isn't that the trickery of the mind? Because I kind of touched on it earlier, we can say and do and practice all the right things, but if our subconscious is not caught up, subconscious is going to win. Your subconscious is driving you most of the time. So how do we get our subconscious on the same thought? Okay. I think a crucial part of breaking up is honoring the grief of the relationship.

Honoring, I guess, kind of like the death of the relationship. relationship. Honouring, I guess, kind of like the death of the relationship. Because if we don't do that properly, we're going to hold on to parts of it that may stop us from moving on with someone else. Also, you don't want to carry that shit into your next relationship. I know because I've done being open is again a practice and you have to catch yourself in the ways that you are closed off from somebody else it's not to say that you have to go on every dating app or like put yourself out there in extreme ways it's a psychological switch that you make and in doing that you're also unhooking yourself from the attachment to the other person so like when I moved back to London after LA I'd been on my own for a couple of years at this point and even though I'd say I wanted a relationship my behavior wasn't really suggesting that I did because of this piece I talked about earlier of

like not knowing how to be me in a relationship so I built up this block around meeting someone because I didn't know how to meet someone and not completely abandoned myself and therefore I concluded that I couldn't be with anyone so the way it would manifest for me is like I wouldn't go to a lot of things I was very hermit-y and for me strangely like a big thing about it was around food it was like around like body image so I'd sort of tell myself like well you're not ready for a relationship because you've got to lose like a couple of pounds which of course is complete bullshit and it was just a story I was telling myself to keep myself small and to keep myself stuck because I was so fearful of what a relationship might bring and what it might bring up and how it could disrupt something I had to spend a lot of time trying to

to get balanced to try and like find my fucking self I was so scared that I would lose myself again so it's really interesting to watch the ways because it's like on a sort of conscious thought level we're saying we want a relationship we want a relationship we're desperate for a boyfriend like why can't I meet someone but if you actually look at your behavior it could be completely counterproductive to that so just have that awareness over like what you're doing in your day-to-day life like what your energy is like what you're giving out what story are you telling yourself about why or why not you're in a relationship because if it's also like to do with like what you look like and stuff like it was for me call that out call bullshit on that okay because that is not fucking true and just having an openness just switching that switch in your

mind to go I'm open for something I'm calling it in like meditate on it journal on it journal about the kind of person that you want and also like what you're letting go of what's not welcome in your life anymore because we we can go on with our day-to-day life holding someone from the past in such high regard that it's actually a protective mechanism we use to stop ourselves from being seen and vulnerable with somebody else it's really less about that person and more about what they're representing and what they're protecting you from, if that makes sense. So holding on to a past relationship, holding on to a person from your past and building this whole story around why they were the one way, they were right for you. Perhaps you ruined everything by letting them go. You're never going to find someone else,

letting them go, you're never going to find someone else, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that shit. Perhaps you may be doing that to stop yourself from being seen and stop yourself from being vulnerable. And to actually accept that that is over, that is the past. You are responsible for the part you played in it. You learn. You become more aware, more of a conscious human being. And you invite in the next. You invite in the next teacher. So I think that's, yeah, it's quite a powerful thing because I also have caught myself during this isolation. I have been guilty too of, I'm quite, I'm pretty fucking good at being on my own but I have caught myself in moments in my weaker moments in the midnight hours of lusting over the

past predominantly the last relationship fantasizing about coulda woulda shoulda how things could have been different is it fully over blah blah blah blah all that stuff and holding that person as like the comforter in my life but it's actually a bit of an illusion and for me I tend to be someone that enjoys extremes rather than just being able to sit in neutral so what I mean by that is like my mind will get out the record of like the tiny violin and the pain and the heartache and everything that like went wrong horribly at the end and just start like ruminating on that shit rather than being like, okay, this is where I'm at right now. I don't have anybody in my life and that's okay. That's okay to not have anybody right now. I don't know why that's such a, it feels like such a fucking

terrifying thing. But my, my lesson was to be able to sit in that, in that neutral space and just be like, this is where I'm at right now and I'm cool with it. And I can do things that make me happy, that comfort me. I can call friends. The way I look at it is like your life is like a pie chart and your romantic part, you know, historically and in society and traditionally takes up a huge piece of that pie,

especially when we're in a very extreme and like infatuated, heightened romantic state. It takes up a big part of that pie. What I try to practice is just bringing that down a little bit and making it more measured and more balanced with everything else that I have in my life. So of course, like a friendship is never going to be able to replace a romantic partner. But being okay with the space that's available and honoring it and being excited for when something's going to come in, but not needing to fill it, not needing to fill it with an illusion or a fantasy about someone that's just not right for you.

So I think what a lot of people are doing right now is they're just going huh I can't be on my own I'm gonna get out my my phone book and call up an ex from the past or like start like no you don't need to do that you don't need to do that it's scary but it's a more profound and more progressive thing to be like I'm not going there I'm not going backwards just because I'm standing still be okay with the stillness of what it means to be alone because being able to be alone is one of the most powerful things that will serve you so well for life because you never know when it's going to happen again. And being actually being able to like fill yourself with other things

and be excited about when a new romantic relationship is going to come in but not need it for your own sanity is like a great thing. And there's a lot of work to be done around it and that's probably a whole other podcast in itself. But doing the subconscious work is like a it's a complicated thing because often you're having to unearth childhood trauma wounds in order to catch up with the conscious mind so again it's just having that awareness over like how is your subconscious acting and journaling around the behaviors that may be

going against what your conscious linear thought is wanting so if like you want a relationship but like you're cutting yourself off like journal around the why get curious around the why don't judge it just be like why might I be doing? What am I trying to protect myself from? What am I trying to keep myself safe from that is stopping me from growing? Okay. I'm going to wrap this up, but I'm going to leave it with, someone sent me something that I thought was really lovely and it wasn't a question, but it was a little story. So I think her name's Camilla. So it's from Camilla. During my Saturn return, I got married and within three years divorced.

I'd been with him for 10 years and he left out of the blue. I can honestly say it was the hardest and best thing that ever happened to me. I took a lot of time, therapy and self-love to build me up to a stronger, braver and more resilient person than I ever could have been if I had stayed with him. It needed to end so I could not only survive but thrive on my own. Then when I had settled happily in the single life, I ended up meeting the love of my life. I am married again and we have a 16-month-old daughter, which is the most incredible blessing. But perhaps more importantly than my beautiful family is that I'm finally able to have healthy relationships where I consider others needs we all have bad days but I can honestly say that if you're going through the heartbreak of a

relationship lean into it do the work or it will repeat the same mistakes in your next one. Also, have faith and do some yoga, which I just love. And I love it when I get messages like that because it's so true. Lean into it because that experience, that pain, that trauma, whatever it is, it's going to arrive. Lean into it.

Go with the tide, don't wrestle against it so yeah I'm going to wrap up on my first solo podcast I hope you enjoyed it and I can't believe I just talked for an hour on my own um I'm quite exhausted well thank you guys so much for listening and if you enjoyed this episode let me know because I'll do another one and stay safe everybody thanks Saturn Returns is a Feast Collective production the producer is Hannah Varel and the executive producer is Kate Taylor if you did enjoy today's podcast I would love it if you could share it with someone who you think might find it useful until next time thank you very much for listening and remember you are not alone