Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Gamer Pills

Episode Date: March 28, 2024

If you want to Get Good at video games quickly, are there any magic pills you can take? Well, there are people trying to sell them to you. Justin and Dr. Sydnee look at some supplements that claim to give gamers better focus and more energy, none of which are doctor-approved. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers https://taxpayers.bandcamp.com/ MaxFunDrive ends on March 29, 2024! Support our show now by becoming a member at maximumfun.org/join.

Sawbones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, this one is about some books. One, two, one, of misguided medicine. for the mouth. Oh, yeah.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to Sawbones, a marital tour of misguided medicine. I'm your cohost, Justin McElroy. And I'm Sydney McElroy. And I'm so excited, because it's Max Fun Drive, yay! Woo hoo! This is our final Max Fun Drive episode for Sawbones.

What does that mean to you, the listener? Well, that means it's your chance to step up and say, I love this fricking show. I love this show, and I wanna chance to step up and say, I love this fricking show. I love this show and I want to continue to support Justin and Sydney and help be a little part of making this show possible. Mainly Sydney. Mainly Sydney.

But also Justin. So if you go to maximumfund.org forward slash join, you can pledge to our network. The majority of your donation is gonna go to the shows that you say you listen to. So hopefully that includes Sawbones because you're hearing this. So technically it has to. You do listen to it. You do listen to. So hopefully that includes Sawbones because you're hearing this. So technically it has to.

You do listen to it. You do listen to it. And you can pledge whatever feels comfortable for you. How much time do you spend listening to Sawbones? What do you get out of it? You decide on that amount. And we've got some thank you gifts if you're able to pledge that.

For $5 a month, if you can pledge that, Sid, they're getting over 600 hours of bonus content That's so many hours behind a wall. It's all waiting for you, and it's not just our show No, it's all the shows from all the years this year once again Sidney is taking kids medical questions with our daughter Charlie everyone is loving it the reviews are Absolutely unreal Charlie is a better podcaster than both of us somehow. Interesting. Well, that's DNA for you.

There you go. You add two people together, you get twice as good of a podcaster. That's just science. And speaking of science, Sydney, um, scientifically, it's good for your health if you get a maximum fund out or for a slash join. I didn't want to pivot off yet. Okay. Because I felt like I hadn't talked about it enough. Okay.

Because it's really, really important. And I don't think I need to tell you folks, ads have been tough. You probably heard a lot of Sawbuzz episodes that haven't had ads on them. That affects the bottom line, not just us, but the people who work with us to make the shows and the money we use to buy equipment and stuff like that.

It all comes from there. So your donations really help us to weather those storms when the ad market is rocky, as you might say. If you're already a member, thank you so much. If you're a new member, welcome. If you're upgrading, thank you, thank you. We appreciate what you do, lets us do what we do. The science today, I'm really excited about

because I feel like it is something that touches both of our lives in a deep way. And I have really, I think, stepped up to the plate here on the research end, because I've brought you so much flippin' information that it's basically unreal. It, I'm really excited to see what you have for us today, Justin.

Well, that's good for you, Sydney, because today we're talking about gamer pills. Gamer pills? Yes, that is the term that I'm using to describe any sort of substance that is supposed to medically improve your gaming acumen. Medically improve. Medically, substantively improve your gaming abilities through, I guess, pharmacological

means of pharmacological solutions. What was it? Because there's other, okay, I'm having to be specific here because there is this world of pro gaming. There is a lot of like, there is a very real actual problem with people in pro gaming and their abilities decreasing over time and the repeated stress injuries that a lot of them are experiencing that are no laughing matter. Like, put them out of the game early, not the literal game and the, you know, figurative game. Similar to athletics.

Yes. And so there's a lot of preventative measures that people in that community are talking about to increase the longevity of players, physical therapy, that kind of thing. So, not talking about that. That's not what this is. That's not what this is. These are pills to help you game better, folks. And that is what we're going to be talking about today. And we're not just talking about Adderall that maybe you aren't supposed to take, but do. Right, yeah, nothing illegal here.

This is all stuff that's just available on the market. Adderall is not illegal, I should say. It is a prescription drug that is legal when it is being prescribed to you by a healthcare professional. It's worth also noting, I don't know this for certain, because it's not my space,

I believe some of the stimulants discussed here are banned from use in like a professional e-gaming, some of the caffeine, I think. I think there's some rules against that, but I'm not positive, I shouldn't say that. I know there's some doping restrictions in pro sports, but I'm not, pro gaming, but I don't know what they extend to.

I would assume that there would be testing for like amphetamines and such, just because of their effect on like reaction time and cognitive ability and focus. There's a lot of overlap with the ingredients in a lot of these, so I'm just gonna go through brand-wise and just bring it to you that way, because I feel like I don't wanna get in the way

of the marketing, and I feel like if I bring too much of myself here, I'm gonna be impinging on it. First up, I wanna tell you, and Sid, if you feel the need to weigh in with any sorts of like scientific contributions. Oh, I will. Okay, so first up is Genius Gamer. This is the first one that I popped up,

that popped up in my searches here. These are in no particular order, just some of the ones that I found that seem to be the most popular. Genius Gamer is an elite gaming performance supplement. And it is a scientifically researched formulation for serious gamers, capital G. And here's what this one has in it. Tiacrine, Dynamine, and Cognizant,

which all have either a register, the, what do do you say the copyright or the trademark after it? So These are these are proprietary I'm assuming they are they are when you look up the studies on these these are all Like they've all got their little are on them in the studies. Yeah, she don't see quite as often honestly like Someone who reads a lot of studies you don't see quite as often, honestly. Like, as someone who reads a lot of studies, you don't see that a lot. So, from what I could tell, the ingredients in Genius Gamer, behind their proprietary information here,

all seem to be basically, a couple of them at least, seem to be forms of caffeine. That's a real popular theme in all of these supplements is the caffeine portion is pretty ubiquitous in a lot of these stimulants. Yeah. Now, Sid, I have given you access to my research so you can sort through my data that I have gathered.

Your data. My data, yes. My data suggests that tiacrine and theacrine are similar. I found a Reddit post on it that seemed very scientific, but I could not understand it. But it seemed extremely scientific, the words in the Reddit post. So that's one of the big ones in Genius Gamer.

Right. I mean, I think this seems mainly like a bunch of caffeine or caffeine-like things. Do they make any claims as to why? Because supposedly this is supposed to prevent the jitters and the crash. Yes, of caffeine. Right. Right. Do they tell you why any of this would,

I mean, because if something is caffeine or caffeine like an analogous, and you take enough of it. We're getting into a little bit of pharmacology in which I am not an expert. I just wondered if they tried to explain why it would not make you jittery. No, okay, so this is the problem with a lot of these.

We're having some fun here with the bit. I want you to understand that I've been doing this show for a long time, so I'm not as a, you know, I get it, right? This is all kind of made up, and I don't want to pretend like I'm selling you crap. The problem with a lot of these supplements is that it includes these ingredients,

but it doesn't necessarily, the benefit is assumed. Like, they're not saying, this company or any other company is not saying these ingredients and let us explain them to you. It's saying, we've got these things. You know about these things, right? There are these brand names that we made up, but you know about them.

It's got all of them in it. And you'll have to do a little hunting yourself to find out why they are good and to what extent they are helpful. Well, as I was digging in, when you first told me what you were looking into, and I was kind of digging into some of these studies and starting to look into some of it.

There seems to be a lot of understanding among a certain, I mean, this isn't even necessarily the gaming community, I would say. No. There's a lot of overlap with like people who are looking for workout performance boosters. 100%, yeah. And other like athletic or like muscle building type pursuit

You might say bio hackers as an as an Oza umbrella term. You know how I feel about that Yeah, I know that you don't like people cutting in on your business No, I got staking matters into our own hands No, it's it's not you know what I could say something really Eeyore-like at that moment. Like, I don't know. I did wanna also- There's only so much of this we control, folks. Only so much.

I also wanted to mention Genius Gamer also includes, what is it called? They call it Lutein. They have a trademark version of Lutein. Is that how you pronounce that? L-U-T-E-N. Lutein, and they have a trademark version of Lutein. Is that how you pronounce that? L-U-T-I-N. Lutein, okay. Lutein, and this is their trademark version,

which they call LuteMax. And these are really, these are in a lot of these too, these versions of Lutein, which I believe is a derivative of marigold extract I believe is a derivative of marigold extract that is supposed to help this with blue light, like eye strain and blue light. It, I think, and I think we'll probably return to this theme several times,

but the problem with something like that is, okay, this is very similar, and this may be something that you have thought yourself, so maybe this will be helpful for you. I will often be asked about B12. Should I get a B12 injection for energy? This is a very common question. A lot of people with varying levels of health literacy or whatever will ask this question. So if you yourself have asked or are thinking about this question, don't be embarrassed.

I get this question very frequently. And the thing is, if you've got plenty of B12, if you're B12 level, if I could like look at like, x-ray vision and check it right now, if it's normal, if it's within the physiological range, giving you more B12 won't help. Does that make sense? Yes.

If it's low, sure. But more is not always more in the human body. At best, more is the same. And at worst, more is toxic and will kill you. So like for a lot of these, I would bet you don't need more lutein than you're getting in a lot of like some of these things you just don't need much of, either your body makes it

or you get it from a pretty standard diet. This is something that I've noticed looking into some of this research is when you see people pointing to studies, confirming the efficacy of it, they're pointing to studies in people that were deficient in it and saw an improvement. Yes in people that were deficient in it and saw an improvement. Like, that were deficient in it, saw an improvement.

And like, I see it works. It's like, well, okay, but it worked in them, but like, is it gonna make me better than normal? Like better than average? Exactly, it won't take you, there's like a, there's a limit. There's a limit as to how good it gets, and then it doesn't help more and like

You can find lutein in egg yolk spinach kale corn orange pepper kiwi grapes zucchini squash These are just a few of the places. It's just a quick search wide variety of foods Contain it so you're probably if you're eating kind of a regular diet When I am you're probably gonna encounter plenty of that. Okay, fine. But is that gonna be the same about 4brain ProGamer? That is my question. You said 4brain ProGamer from Force Factor.

It's just for your 4brain? No, ma'am. This is about winning. It includes potent, scientifically studied compounds to help you play better and win more, period. This one is in 80 capsules. Now this one for Brain Pro Gamer, it'll improve my reaction time. It'll protect my eyes from the blue light. Recurring game. I bet that's the lutein. I bet that's lutein as well. Yeah, Fluoroglow lutein. They're special kind of lutein.

Ludamax, I believe it's the fluoroglo-lutein. Ouch, okay, it's all lutein. And it has nulevel. Now that is spelled in the most irritating way you can imagine, capital N-O-O, capital L-V-L, nulevel, nulevel, which is arginine silicate. Now, I'm not a smart man, Sydney, but in looking at some of the research that I could find, this is the only one thing, not the only one, but one of the

things that seemed like maybe there might be some benefit to someone that has been scientifically proven. But again, I don't know. Argenine. Argenine, yeah, is definitely one of the ones you will see repeated the most in these. For argenine or new level for the branding awareness. Argenine, okay, this really took me down a rabbit hole

because arginine is its own little supplement industry unto itself. Okay. And has been, and specifically, you'll see a lot of these, we'll say L, arginine or L, whatever, there's another one. Yeah, there's a lot of them. Yeah, well, I mean, yes, there's a lot of theanine. That was the other one.

There's several that we talk about, but what they're talking about is these are amino acids, and as they're being formed chemically, there's like a left-hand form and a right-hand form of all of them. Like when a chemical reaction happens, it might create enantiomers. So like chemically identical structures

that are mirror images of one another. Okay. Okay. An L1 and a D1. Okay. Okay. Generally, with different chemical compounds, one form is the active one that actually does stuff, and the other is just the mirror image byproduct that happens also.

Is it always L or always D? Not always, but generally L is the one, but not always. Is the one that works? With these amino acids, we got a lot of L ones that we care about. But yes, they're just mirror images. And so if you see an L or a D, they're just telling you it's this enantiomer.

It's this mirror image of this molecule. I don't know why you would need to know that, but now you know it. Yeah, it's in there, huh? I can't really necessarily get it out. Well, I just thought that is what that means. So arginine is huge in the pre-workout. Yes, that is a big part of that.

And I saw a lot of people billing some of these as like double duty. This is great for your pre-workout, good for the pump. Yeah, I saw a lot of people billing some of these as like double duty. This is great for your pre-workout. Good for the pump. Yeah. I saw a lot about pump enhancement and pump improvement. There's a lot about pumping. Um, when you read about arginine and man, I've just destroyed all of my socials. Oh, forget it, bud. Yeah. my algorithm is beyond repair at this point. It already knew I was a gamer, so this just seemed like, well, he's getting up in years.

This seems like a perfectly natural path for his algorithm to take. See, and I'm worried mine are just going to be like, pecs, pecs, pecs. So what they've researched, Arjunin, so Arginine is used in the synthesis of nitric oxide. Nitric oxide is something in your body that dilates blood vessels, opens up blood vessels. So blood flow goes somewhere a little faster. You have it in your body. You get arginine from your body, like you make it,

and then also from foods. I should be selling it. And you have lots of it. And then arginine is part of the process that makes NO. We know that like having enough of this in your body is important. We also know that probably most of you listening do just naturally from making it and from eating it.

First of all, the very concept that taking an arginine supplement can increase the NO levels in your body, that very concept is still being debated. Because again, it's just maxing out what we, it's not a limitless pill because There is a limit and once you have enough there's an enzyme that turns arginine into nitric oxide I'm making this very simplistic once you have fully saturated all the enzymes. They've got all the arginine You can't make any more. You know what I mean? Yeah, you've like that's it. That's it. You're done There's no more you can make.

And so what they're saying is you get to a limit where more arginine doesn't make more nitric oxide. And so there are some studies that suggest taking any of these supplements isn't doing anything because it can't do the thing it says to do. Now there is conflicting evidence that says, no, no, no, we did some studies and we did find evidence that if you draw your blood after taking the supplement, you do find increased levels of nitric oxide. But I'm just saying like the core way this would work

is still being debated. Yes, but you cannot debate this. Many people have reported increased levels of pump. No, I can debate that because a lot of it is just people who take these supplements and then say that it works. And then when you look, there are studies. The studies, the one that you sent me, acute inositol stabilized arginine silicate improves

cognitive outcomes in healthy adults. I mean, just you saying that sounds so reassuring. Do you know how many healthy adults were in this study? How could I know that? 19. That's not many. No, they did the study in 19 adults. That's so few to hear you say it like that.

And so like there was, they gave them either the placebo or the arginine silicon. And this is because the silicate supposedly increases the availability of the arginine. So that's why this, a lot of these supplements will try to do this. We're not gonna answer the question as to whether or not arginine works.

We're gonna answer the question, which form of arginine is most bioavailable? Meaning which one actually gets into your body the best. So they've reframed the question. If you take it back to, but does arginine do this? Nobody wants to say that because they don't know. There have been some very small studies that have suggested that maybe you do a little better

on a memory test here and there if you take arginine. But this is not widely accepted. This is not common medical knowledge by any stretch. Well, honey, okay, I don't want to be rude, but of course it's not common medical knowledge. I'm trying to get the freaking edge. If every 12-year-old with a PayPal account knows about it, then they're gonna have me beat.

I need to use my advantages. You know what I mean? I hope they're not 12-year-olds buying these gaming supplements online. They should be 13 and that I'll insist on 13. And I will say this, if it does in fact increase nitric oxide, this is also something to be cautious about

because there are other medications that might conflict with that you might have problems if you take this. There are a number of conditions that they don't recommend this for. Its effect on blood pressure is still unknown. All right, all right, okay, listen. Sorry folks, she swore she wouldn't do this. I'm trying to talk to my gamers.

You know what, I'm gonna take a quick break here to reset, okay, Sydney? Because you're getting a little in the weeds with all of this facts and science, and I'm just trying to educate the gamers. We the gamers. Well, let's go to the building department. No, not this time, Syd.

This time, we're gonna talk about the maximum fun drive. That's true. This is our, it's in the final days right now. In fact, as you're listening to it, it is either the final day or the next to final day. But we are really hoping that you will be able to pledge to this show and the network at a level of, let's talk about $5 a month. You do $5 a month, that's going to get you a lot of bonus content, right, Sid?

Over 600 hours of bonus shows from all the shows on our network. Every year we've been doing this. They're great. They're hilarious, they're weird, and only you get to know about them. If you are a member at $5 a month. If you can do $10 a month, wow, that's nice. But if you can do $10 a month, we are going to get the bonus content,

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and all the bonus content at $20 a month. Wow, that is so kind. Thank you so much. For $20 a month, we have a beautiful hat with the Max Fun logo on it, which is beautiful. And there's also- It's a bucket hat. Yeah, it's a bucket hat with the Maximum Fun logo on it, which is beautiful. And there's also- It's a bucket hat.

Yeah, it's a bucket hat, love that. And if you don't wanna go the hat route, there's a gaming on the go pack that's like a bandana that doubles as a chess board and also a checkboard and game pieces so you can take it with you on the go. It's so cute. It's so cute. But the thank you gifts are a nice way of saying,

you know, thank you. But the main thing is using that money to support the shows that you love. That is the only way we're able to make any of these podcasts is because it is our job to do it. And you all have made that possible. You support this work and also our family and everything that we do, you make it possible for this to be our lives. And we are always so incredibly grateful for that. Yes, we can't say thank you enough. If you're a member, if you've already joined,

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Sid. These pills and stuff are nice, How did that work? Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Sid. These pills and stuff are nice, but what if you wanna get good? Justin, a lot of these other, the names. Get good is spelled G-I. New level and veggie surge and floor glow. Oh, listen. Okay, I'm gonna come back to get good,

but Veggie Surge, that. Is caffeine. That's caffeine. And they don't even try to hide it. No, it's just caffeine. This is still in 4Brain Pro Gamer. Veggie Surge is a premium green coffee bean extract. Does it have any vegetables in it?

It says, listen, Veggie Surge is a premium green coffee bean extract extract conferring 150 milligrams of extremely high quality natural caffeine, which is a better source of longer lasting energy, Sid. Then what? I don't know. It doesn't say, but it's better than whatever you're thinking about. That is another big part of Forebrain is the Veggie Surge. But does it have any vegetables in it? Well, it's, that's, coffee's a vegetable, Sid. No, does it? No, but really, it's called veggie surge.

It doesn't even have, cause sometimes they'll like throw some, you know, some vegetable things and as if you wouldn't figure out, like you could also eat vegetables. But it does help with a lot of the things that caffeine is helpful with. I mean, you gotta agree with that. What does it have in it? lot of the things that caffeine is helpful with. I mean you gotta agree with that What does it have in it? It's no it's just caffeine

We love caffeine and we know that it is effective and you're gonna sit here and tell me caffeine doesn't work said Veggie surges, I just can't even believe they wouldn't fake it with like putting some vegetable things in there Okay Anyway, does the does the name Get Good not offend you on some level, like as a gamer? Does it feel like you're being talked down to? You need to spell it. Capital G-I-T, capital G-U-D, all intercapped,

I guess you would say, in one word, Get Good. If I was being marketed to as a demographic with that, that would offend me. Like, do you think I'm gonna fall for like, get good? Get good. Get good. Here's what I say. Even, I will say, first of all,

just the nomenclature of gamers, period, is kind of silly. I feel like most people who play video games don't necessarily, I mean, we don't think about movie watchers, you know? We don't think about music watchers, you know? We don't think about music listeners. I guess we call people readers. Yeah, but that's just,

they're people who read a lot. That's a nicer way of saying nerd. Bookworms. Okay. So, but- You're right. Tell me about get good gaming inhaler. No, no, that also means nerd.

So what I'm saying is that it is not weird for people to try to cash in on people who play video games as a demographic by marketing to them. I mean, it has been going on for years. I mean, when I was covering video games, there was stuff like Gamer Grub, which was a snack made for gamers that was designed to not leave a lot of stuff on your hands. So it wouldn't interrupt your gaming sessions. It also tasted pretty good. I like Gamer Grub. a snack made for gamers that was designed to not leave a lot of stuff on your hands. Wouldn't interrupt your gaming sessions. It also tasted pretty good. I like gamer grub. I don't care. But you know, we had gamer fuel. Game fuel was the Mountain Dew derivative. There's game chairs. There's been game, game, everything that is supposed to, you know, enhance. And all the

marketing is always tragic. It's always been like this. Look at these things. What are you talking? What are you looking at? I'm looking at the get good inhaler. Okay, always been like this. Oh my gosh, look at these things. What are you talking, what are you looking at? I'm looking at the Get Good inhaler. Okay, so what is it, Sid? Let's reveal, can you just read, Sid, okay. In the description, okay, are you looking at their webpage? Yeah. Okay, under where it says, add to cart, below that,

can you read that subhead in the paragraph below, please? Do you mean feel the power of peppermint? Who says, okay, this first statement, I need a reference. Don't editorialize, please. For decades, professional athletes have used peppermint as a secret weapon to accomplish their goals, and now you can too.

Our proprietary blend of energy inhalers are formulated with a potent blend of peppermint and other natural ingredients to help you feel alert, focused, and invigorated. Experience a refreshing minty blast that will take your experience to the next level. So you stick this thing in your nose and just inhale? Yeah.

I mean, yeah. What's unclear? Well, there's the peppermint, but there's also, what we got here, we got, oh, that's winter mint. Not winter, winter. Try hard tropical, sinna run and gun. The shooty fruity, don't forget about shooty fruity. Banana Royale.

Oh my gosh, I can't. So these are- Demonberry? These are basically, I think, I can't even find them. I'm trying- I'm trying- I can't even find them saying the things that are in it that are supposed to help you. It is literally just like, I don't know, it probably smells like peppermint. Does it? I know, that's why I'm trying to find out what the ingredients are. There's not, I mean you can keep looking if you want.

I mean like. I couldn't find anything. It is literally just like. Scent. Scent. Yeah, just proprietary scents. They're just scents. That are in it. So like, it's just aromatherapy. Okay. I mean it's just aromatherapy. It's all that that is.

Oh. But anyway, get good, spelled just like that. Get good. But anyway, get good, spelled just like that. Now, Focus Factor Gaming Neutropic is fascinating because it was designed with, it is a drink additive, fruit punch flavor it looks like this one is. Yeah, and so it is designed with we the gamers in mind and our performance specifically.

So this nootropic, can we talk about nootropic for a second? Because I've been batting around that word for a little bit. And in my layman's understanding as somebody who spent a literal entire afternoon researching this nootropic is a something that is designed or supposedly will improve cognitive function through chemical means. Like it is something that will improve cognitive function through chemical means. Is that basically what they're talking about? Yeah. Smart drugs.

Smart drugs. Brain pills. Well, brain pills. There are lots of pills that work on the brain. Oh, a very good point. And not all of these are pills. No. And these are things that are, they're like cognitive enhancers. Right. I mean, would be a good way to think of it. So it's got, it lists some of their nootropics.

Caffeine is a nootropic. I mean, for example, ginkgo biloba extract and lion's mane for the adult e-sports athlete. Now I got some,, hold on one second. Can you tell them about the, do you know anything about ginkgo biloba? I know that that was a, I feel like I don't hear ginkgo biloba as much anymore, but I feel like there was a real,

it had a real moment. It was a big, a big like supplement that people were taking for memory benefits for a while, just like, I'm going to improve my brain, I'm going to take some Ginkgo biloba. I think, you know, it's so hard because when you get into a lot of these supplements, I'm kind of going to sound like a broken record, which is there generally are no or few studies, and the studies are not what we have come to accept as like the gold standard for does a drug work or not. So I've mentioned Lion's Mane and Ginkgo below because those are a couple of the ones that I see.

I got these. When did you buy these? So I got these at the CVS. When did you do? You got Lutein. So here's the thing. I got them at the CVS because we were gonna stream Celeste today.

It was a really hard game, and me and my brothers and I were all supposed to play it together. And everybody said that it was gonna be way too hard for us. But, and if you watch the stream, folks, you'll see that it's true. We did amazingly well. So I took a cocktail. I couldn't buy these things

because they weren't at the CVS, none of these. But I got some of the active ingredients just to see how they would improve my performance. And there is documented evidence. You can go through and see how I perform before I took them, after, you know, all of them. But did we compare it to other gaming sessions or... That's so interesting.

What an interesting question. And also, are we saying that you are enough of a subject? Like we can just test something in you and if it works, we can generalize that to the rest of the human race? Well, yes and no. Now, Lion's mane, is that mushrooms? That's what it says in the box. Yeah, Lion's Main, is that mushrooms? That's what it says in the box. Yeah, Lion's Main comes from mushrooms.

Yeah, there's five calories in each of these pills, which is wild, or each two of these pills, is known as the smart mushroom. So Lion's Main must be well documented for its improvement for everything. I did wanna bring a layman's perspective to Focus Factor Gaming Neutropic. Does not have a lot of reviews,

but it did have one on Amazon. Well, it had two total, and one was a one-star review that said, changed the smell of my stool. Maybe it's a coincidence, but I think it changed the smell of my stool. My stool started to smell odd around the same time I started using this so that is one layman's

Review of that it also contains lutein is also in focus factory well it's interesting because a lot of these things and I I think that some of the not these not ginkgo biloba or lion's mane here, but a lot of the like not these, not ginkgo biloba or lion's mane here, but a lot of the supplement complexes that have multiple things in them, they warn about GI side effects. I found that listed just as I was starting to look through these.

This might cause diarrhea or constipation or bloating or cramping or something to happen to your GI tract. Right. So it might change the smell of your stool, possibly. It's possible. That is, I guess, a known accepted side effect of like arginine, for instance. This person also doesn't say for the worse, to be clear.

They just say it changed it and it smelled odd. So I don't know. It may be an improvement. They don't make that clear. Although the one star review. I mean it would almost have to be though, right? Like. One star review does imply

that it was a change for the negative. Yeah. So those are the big ones in Focus Factor Gaming Neutropic. So what they say here is, it also feature LudeMax 2020 for mental sharpness, stress support, and to provide blue light protection for those long gaming days. So that's Lutein, again, as a reminder.

So go ahead and get ready for game day with Focus Factor Gaming Neutropic. It's a fruit punch powder, by the way, is what that is. It's got Gingko Biloba, Lutein, Lion's Mane, and those are the big ones for, and oh, it's got caffeine anhydrous, which I will tell you, several people mentioned having caffeine anhydrous, which I found out means caffeine

that doesn't have water in it. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say, that just means no water. I think they just add it on there to make it seem like different from caffeine that is in soda. say, that just means no water. I think they just add it on there to make it seem like different from caffeine that is in soda. No, that's just. No, I know, I know, you don't have to clarify for me.

I'm saying that, I think that's why they do it. Okay, okay. And that changes my, now, Mad Monk, this one has a lot of stuff in it. You wouldn't even believe, Siberian ginseng, which isn't ginseng, I found out. And so that, don't confuse the two. I don't know why you would call it Siberian ginseng,

but it's not ginseng, as far as I understand it. These are, looks like pills. I don't know if they're chewable or not, but I guess every pill is chewable if you believe in yourself. This version 3.0 of Mad Monk comes with a patented brain berry, which is a potent natural extract tested on gamers to improve focus, psychomotor speed, and accuracy

by syncing brain, eye and hand processes. So brain berry is, it is an all natural, erronea berry ingredient standardized for high levels of cyanidin, cyanidin Glucoside, which is clinically validated to improve focus and psychomotor speed. It is? Clinically validated. Cause I'm, I'm, I am right now trying to find this where?

Well, I'll tell you what, you look into Brainberry a little bit, I'm gonna tell other people more about Mad Monk because it is perhaps best known on the internet because it was endorsed for quite some time by a streamer and pro gamer who went by the handle of Forsen or still does. He's no longer associated with the company as far as I could find but that is for Forsen is responsible for a lot of Just really great internet humor

and they had him as the Let's see here. What his position was a Mad Monk's chief questionable humor officer So He joined with the company and it said here, we chose him because we believe that his skills, endurance, talents, experience, and 140 Mensa certified IQ will have a real impact on our project.

And then I think Forsen does a lot of like, poop, poop humor where it's just sort of... You know how a lot of the internet has replaced humor with just sort of like very deep intercultural references? So the deeper the reference and the less accessible it is, that's the sort of version of humor. So the sort of abstract nature of it is part of the gag. It's not supposed to be funny as I understand it. It's not supposed to be funny. As I understand it, yeah. That's not a judgment on Mr. Forsen himself,

I don't know, but that is what I know about that kind of theme. I feel like I've had that explained to me by men in many moments in my life. It's not supposed to be funny. Oh, no, no, no, it's also not. Sorry. I am desperately trying to find cyanidin 3-O glucoside. You still haven't found all the clinical proof?

I mean, what I keep finding are articles where they're like, it's been proposed for several bio activities as like anti-inflammatory and antimicrobial and epigenetic. But then it's like do we have studies? And they're like no, no, we don't have studies, but it's been proposed. I think you're maybe not looking in the right spot because I have found that whenever I have a bias that I would like confirmed, it is usually very easy for me to find something

on the internet that will do exactly that. See, I am trying to find it desperately. And I mean, everything is, I mean, man, it's really well, it's really well... It's really, um... well-written scientific nonsense. It's very dense, and so a lot of people would have... If you don't read in too deeply, would think like, oh, it must do these things.

But I am not finding that it has been proven to do anything, honey. Um, well, I guess you're just wrong. Here's a as a potent modulator of nerf 2 mediated oxidative stress. So maybe it does that. I bet you that modulation and the stress that sounds like it could be about gaming for sure. They're saying eat a lot of berries to prevent disease is what this study is telling me. But I don't have the berries. I only have Mad Monk 3.0. But it's got the special berry. Brain berry. Brain berry, which also has a celebrated special ingredient that's...

It's caffeine. It's got a lot of caffeine in it. It's got a good amount of caffeine in it. And I mean, some of these less sophisticated ones, are just gonna be caffeine, I think. Yes, well, a lot of the people who, it's funny to watch these people market against each other because the majority of the marketing is, the other guys are just selling you caffeine pills with fruit flavor, not us. We've got L-Creoatine.

It's like, well, I don't know what that is. We got brain berries. It's like, what is, I don't know about that. That's never been something that's been explained to me. Well, and when you try to look up studies, there are all these things that say, it's been proposed that this could do this, and it's been suggested, and it has been inferred, and.

See, when I see a PubMed page, I just figure I've found the evidence I need. Because if it looks like PubMed, then I know it's scientific research and I am done. You can not assume that just because it's on PubMed, it is a good study. Okay, well. You gotta read it, you gotta see where it was published,

you gotta see was it peer reviewed, you gotta see what You got to read it. You got to see where it was published. You got to see was it peer-reviewed? You got to see what was the what was the power of the study? What was the design of the study? No, no, any study is very powerful I know and then you got to look for bias in the in conflicts of interest in the office You have a chance to look into my work on Spectra I've been doing some preliminary research, which is linking you to another article on PubMed.

No, sorry, this is from the National Library of Medicine. I am PubMed, yeah, it is from PubMed. So- And see, this is tricky too, because it's from an open access journal, which we've talked about this before on the show. It's like really cool, the idea like, we're not gonna wall our,

we're gonna put our journals in a walled garden, we're gonna let everybody put their stuff here and read each other's stuff, and it's gonna be this open sharing of scientific information, but you can lose some rigor sometimes in that process. I'm not suggesting that we always do. There are certainly ways

that we could share these studies more widely, but you also have to dig deeper. You can't assume anything. Well, hopefully the work that I've sent you on Spectra, that is another ingredient in Mad Monk, which is just loaded down. It's got Brahmi, which is also known as the herb of grace. It's a big part of Ayurvedic medicine.

And it's got Brahmi and it grows in wet tropical environments. And it's been used by Ayurvedic medical practitioners for centuries for a variety of purposes, including improving memory, reducing anxiety, and treating epilepsy. So that is extremely compelling. This doesn't look like they actually looked for, they were looking for things they could measure in the blood. This doesn't actually,

for the first time we've measured synergetic biological effects of a natural supplement on changes in OSM and cellular metabolic activity, unique design and activity of the plant-based natural supplement. This is, this is even written in a way that I don't. and activity of the plant-based natural supplement. This is even written in a way that I don't. So also it's got rhodiola, which is an herb that grows in cold mountainous regions.

Okay, you know what, Sydney? There's 22 people in this study you sent me. Okay, listen. They also are using, like, hold on. I have so much. Is this from the makers of Spectra? It's impossible to say, but I did want to tell you real quick, Sid.

Real quick, one more, you know what we're gonna do? Here's what we're gonna have to do, Sid. I don't know if it'll be next week or at some point, but I'm gonna let you have my research for longer, and maybe you can go through and we could do an episode talking about some of my research. And so we could try to maybe examine this even more to give people better understanding. Not to specific ingredients or things, but maybe as a way of like doing this research for yourself,

synthesizing it and understanding a little better. I can show you the research that I did andizing it, and understanding it a little better. I can show you the research that I did, and maybe you can go over it, and next week, or at some point after, you can talk to me about this research from your perspective. How's that?

Because I've been making you do this on the fly, and that's not fair, because I'm loaded down, I'm loaded to bear with all kinds of great information. No, and I would love to cross-reference some of this stuff, and then try to figure out what exactly, there's so many references where they're assuming like, we know that this does this. We already know like this is an antioxidant

and that this supports cardiovascular health and that this changes lipid profiles. And if you click on the link that they're saying we already know, I followed one of those links to a textbook chapter on like just basic human physiology, and it did not at all improve, like that reference did not prove the statement in the study,

but you wouldn't know that. It was just a textbook chapter. That gives me, okay, since I know that we are not gonna, you're not gonna talk about the science anymore, I have just, and we're gonna return to this topic at a later time. I did want to tell you real quick about Gorilla Mind Respawn, which enhances crucial gaming skills such as accuracy, psychomotor vigilance, rapid decision making, map awareness, multitasking, working memory, communication, and the reduction of overall errors.

Here is a quote, and only people who play video games will enjoy this quote very much, but I did want to tell you all that it helps, this is a quote from their webpage, quote, helps me focus on COD. I was having low KD issues, and with this supplement, my KD is through the roof. What is that? What's that? It's a game. I don't know what that means. What is that? What's that? It's a kill.

It's a kill. It's a kill. It's a kill. It's a kill. I don't know what that means. It's your kill death ratio. It's your ratio of how many people you killed to how many people,

how many times you died. So if you're playing in a game and your KD ratio is bad, that means you died a lot more times than you killed other people, right? So a low KD is bringing down your whole team. But the way they phrased it to summon up ED to me, or low T, I think is amazing.

And also COD is call of duty, right? So the quote is wild. And it's not attributed to anybody. I'm guessing they just wrote it. They just wrote it, yeah. Also, is this the same formula? So you've sent me some ingredients in this. And Gorilla Mind Respawn, is this the same

that contains uredine monophosphate? Yes. Which you have linked me to. Now see this study, now the other thing I linked you to may be wild, it's something else I found on Reddit. I don't know if this is right either. Cause the study I found said that pharmacological versions of uredine monophosphate

may be cancer causing. So I don't know what to do, Sydney. Well, I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna Sydney. Well, I'm gonna have to read them. I'm gonna have to look into that. I would say, here's what I would say in the meantime, unless you're just trying to take caffeine in a weird way. Which I wouldn't recommend either because like this one has 300 milligrams of caffeine in it.

That's a lot of caffeine, guys. That's a lot of caffeine guys Yeah, that's a lot of caffeine. So what I would recommend is maybe don't take any of these Okay, but listen Sid listen. No, don't just just Aren't aren't they supposed to be for fun? Yeah, but you got to get the gamers edge I mean, that's so important and the work we do here on Sawbones is important, Sid. And that's exactly why we're asking people for their support at the Max Fun Drive. Sidney can't continue with another episode

explaining why all the science I've laid out at the doorstep is nonsense. Well, unless I take this Ginkgo Blobo lutein and lion's mane you've just handed me, I guess. I guess, but- Maybe I'll be better at, tell you what, let's do a clinical trial next sawbones Yeah, you'll be hopped up on the gamer supplements. Don't waste them. They were pretty expensive, but I'm not taking these

How did I get them? How did I pay for them? Well friends through your support? No, that's not true. They were not expensive They're a generic forms of these these these medications because I can't get the real stuff. This is just a mushroom pill. You bought a mushroom pill. My GNC doesn't have the good, the gamer stuff I create. Man, we're on a list now. We're on so many lists. We're on the lists. The list we wanna be on is podcasts.

I've pledged money to help them keep going. Maximumfund.org forward slash join is that address. This will be our last ask on Sawbones. But we are so appreciative of you are able to help us. It is so meaningful to our family and to all of us that you continue to allow us to work for you and make these shows. So if it's something you've thought about doing, I would ask you to do it right now, because the research shows that if you're doing it,

while you're listening to it, while you're thinking about it, you're much more likely to actually do it. So if it's something that's important to you, please do it now. Maximumfund.org forward slash join. Thank you. Thank you.

And thanks to the taxpayers for the use of their song, Medicines, as the intro and outro of our program. Thanks to you. We'll listen. Until next time, my name is Justin McElroy. I'm Sydney McElroy. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head. All right!

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