Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Teething

Episode Date: June 3, 2014

Welcome to Sawbones, where Dr. Sydnee McElroy and her husband Justin McElroy take you on a whimsical tour of the dumb ways in which we've tried to fix people. This week: We perforate your baby. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers (http://thetaxpayers.net)

Saabones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a zuendass blasted out. We were shot through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines, the escalant macaque for the mouth Oh, we're already and welcome to saw bones a marital tour of Miss Guyton This and I am yorko who's Justin McElroy. I'm Sydney McElroy. I said the nursery's just about done, but I forgot I still need to get Plugs for the outlets. Oh like the little safety the protectors a little in the little plastic things It is so much a probably learn the name for that the plastic thing at some point the plastic thingy that goes in the holes in the outlet I think you can your house can be unsame in first because where's that kick-in go? He didn't she and I'm not gonna go anywhere. I don't talk to go That's true. I can't see she won't really be able to like roll or do it first

So I can't see her being able to get to the outlets. It's probably safer just to do it ahead of time. Probably. Cause then you got a kid layer. Doesn't even make two prong ones. Cause all our outlets are only two prong, which is the biggest pain in the butt. We'll get an adapter to put.

To three prong to two prong, plastic adapter safety. You know what's so much harder, I think, to raise kids these days than it would have been in olden times. We have, there's electricity in the walls. Like, we just put a lethal substance in our walls now. Well, I mean, it's in wires.

I think it's like being pumped through walls. I don't think like the walls are just filled with electricity. That's kind of a crazy thing you just said. You got Wi-Fi to worry about in the air all around. What's that doing to you? I did not have that going through me when I was a baby. Is that a worry dude? Wi-Fi is everywhere.

What effect does it have on babies? I don't know. I wasn't a baby then. It gives them sweet, sweet internet everywhere. My baby's internet enabled everywhere without a device. She was born in Wi-Fi. She'll be the first baby to be born since Wi-Fi and I think it's gonna have some unpredictable effects. We'll need to, we'll figure it out. All I'm saying is that the world is a lot scarier now that it was you know, 200, 300 years ago.

Well, to be fair, there's one thing that was listed as a pretty decently large cause of infant mortality that we wouldn't put on that list today. What's that? Teething. Wait, what? Yeah, teething. I mean, yes, of course, you know teethin is still a thing baby still

Yeah, cuz they still they still have teeth right and like we're not so futuristic now But it's like food pills that you just swallow and we've evolved away from teeth right teeth have become vestigial Right, but at least mommy one of the hard things in my mouth for Don't worry someday you'll be evolved enough that you won't need them. Can you pass the photoglue mother? That's not how evolution works. Pass the tube of photoglue mother. But TV, although still a thing, is not listed as a

cost of infant mortality anymore. Why was it ever your teeth has come in? It's like not, it's just, they just come in. Well, let me give you a little history about that. Yeah, I explain it, because I don't know how we got this one this wrong. Okay, so first of all, you need to understand what teething is.

I think I do, but go ahead. Do you understand it? I feel like I do, but go ahead. Okay, so it's getting teeth. Okay, yeah, I did have a pretty good concept of it. You know, your first teeth can be called they were colloquially, colloquially known as your milk teeth, milk tea, milk tea, but they're also called scientifically your deciduous teeth.

Cause I want to replace them because they fall off like leaves on a deciduous tree, which is not how the teeth losing process works. They don't just like drift pleasantly in the breeze out of your mouth. My time is through. I've turned brown. It turned brown. Now I'm gonna litter the ground. And it's like a sea from hell razor in here.

Sterefied. Ground is littered with ash-Shen baby teeth. That probably would have been easier on you though if they just kind of drifted out of your mouth. Yeah, it would be easier on me because it's like the worst thing that happened to me. It was pretty traumatic for you, right? Oh my God, I've often said that I've had

a lot of terrible things happen to me in my life. A lot of great things, but the reason I wouldn't live life is just because I would have to go through that again. What's worse than that you put your tongue up there and oh my god, I do this loose all my nightmares are coming true And I'm gonna have to rip it out. It's gonna bleed all when it comes out. I'm eating. It's the worst Then you get a dollar a Dollar do you know me dollars? I would pay to avoid that waking nightmare more than I had. I would have gotten a fever out I would have another

He did you did get what I got a second paper out to pay for my teeth to stay in just I like those teeth They were fun. Well, I don't know if getting your teeth is traumatic luckily It happens somewhere between the ages of three and 12 months usually about six to nine so we probably don't remember it Unless you're I don't, you've got some really crazy weird memory. It takes a few years to get all of your 20 deciduous teeth in. And it's normal. What a crazy design, by the way.

There is almost nothing else I can think of in like, in like life where your body is like, listen, you're young. You're gonna make some mistakes. I'm gonna give you some training teeth. Some starter teeth. I'm gonna give you some starter teeth. Let's see how you do this. Listen, there's a no loose.

Good, bad. These are falling out. Do whatever the hell you want with them. They're your teeth. Go nuts. You can, that's why it's, I mean, I guess at the end of the hell you want with them. They're your teeth, go nuts. You can, that's why it's, I mean, I guess at the end of the day, it's not that bad, all those babies that get baby bottle syndrome,

where they are using a bottle for too long, and then they're front teeth, they're all like too short and wonky. You're young, make those mistakes. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Now, during TV, It should be noted, by the way, Sydney's not a teeth doctor. So if she says something crazy wrong here, you doesn't matter. Now during TV, it should be noted by the way, Sydney's not a teeth doctor. So she says something crazy wrong here.

You just feel free. I guess I should make that point right now, just screamer. I don't know anything about teeth. Yeah, I was. Doctors, if, okay, if a doctor tells you, unless they're like one of those sneaky doctors, it's also a dentist,

like some maxillofacial surgeons, because they do know that. They actually absolutely do know about teeth. But and dentists, of course, know about teeth. But for the most part, doctors don't know anything about teeth. We like, it's like an hour of one day in medical school. And then they're like, but basically just send them to a dentist. So, so that don't take my words on. That means that you should never follow what we say in this program, but especially not necessarily. Especially not about teeth.

It is normal when infants are a teething to be, for them to be fussy and they drool a lot and they can run a temperature, not a fever, but a slightly elevated temperature. And they like to chew on a lot of things to relieve the pressure and sometimes they pull on their ears because they're hurting. There is no cutting involved in cutting teeth. Have you heard that term cutting teeth? You know what I have. Yeah, yeah, okay, cutting, yeah, I got it. There is no cutting involved. It doesn't actually like cut through your gums or anything like that. Because otherwise they bleed, right? If teeth were actually breaking through, you have some trauma and bleeding.

That's weird. So what's happening? As you grow the cells in your gums, this is pretty cool. Naturally die in certain patterns and create separations that allow the teeth to come through. Oh, that's fascinating. I had no idea. It's just part of growing in which are incredible machines. Yes, we are. It's completely natural and it's normal. But obviously, we didn't always think so. Which is bizarre, because I mean, I don't think we're the only animal that this happens in. Yeah. So the Greeks thought it was a problem. They thought that Teethene was responsible for all kinds of problems in early childhood.

Fever's, diarrhea, convulsions or seizures, they thought were probably related to teething. They didn't really know what to do about it other than hope that your baby survived it. They did advise that you could try wrapping your baby's head in a cloth and then rub its head with a lot of oil and then put some oil in its ears and then preheat the oven to 350 put some lemon it's a garlic in the baby's bottom and some sage find a witch in the job of the house it was written I was reading what have holidays wrote about TV and at one point it said it was it was worse in

quote those who are particularly fat and have constipated bowels TV can be worse than How much what what have you ever seen a baby so like oh today this day Do not get me started My I have not had any roughage. Well, okay, I mean, I really haven't had any roughage at all. I don't know what that word means.

And I only drink breast milk. It is like rush hour in there. Oof. In the 1800s, Tee-Thien was actually listed in London in the registrar of causes of death. Tee-Thien was listed for about 12% of infants under age three and 18. That doesn't make any sense. And this idea, this was debated,

hotly debated throughout, you know, the history of like pediatrics until the early 1900s. What, what could there have been to debate? Well, a lot of it just had to do with timing. It's like a coincidence. So teething seemed to cause babies a lot of distress. They were fussy and whiny and they were obviously in pain. Right. They were not they were not happy about the situation. So it was thought, well, if you know, if this is causing the baby a lot of problems, and then something else happens, this is the same time period where there were other childhood

diseases that at the time we did, not only did we not have treatments or cures for, but we certainly couldn't even recognize. And so then unfortunately, the baby would die of something else and you would think, oh, maybe it was the tea thing because we know it was a big deal. So that was it. It was just simply a timing thing. So since we thought it was the T-thing because we know it was a big deal. So if that was it, it was just simply a timing thing.

So since we thought it was a problem, we came up with a lot of really weird things to do for it. It never occurred to us that it's like, it just happens and it's always happened and it's just the way things, it happens. This is the way it is. No, not until like the 1900s, do we just say, well, you know what, maybe this is normal.

Maybe this is happens. It has been happening to every mammal. Sorry, go ahead. So the initial treatments were not that harmful really. They recognize that babies seem to like to chew on their fingers, the pressure on their gums helps with the pain. And so they would give them things to chew on,

just necklaces to chew on. Okay. They would have them, sometimes just wear magic amulets. Oh, okay. So they would have them wear certain necklaces. Swap out gum pain for a choking hazard. Good job, all people. You would have certain necklaces that had like beans

or stones or something on them that you could chew on, but then they would just wrap them around their waist for their magical powers. And I don't know if they're evil teething spirits, I guess. or stones or something on them that you could chew on, but they would just wrap them around their waist for their magical powers. And I don't know if they're evil teething spirits, I guess. Serannis advised that you should take the brains of a hair as in like a rabbit. Oh good. And rub those on your baby's gum.

Oh, excellent, that's excellent. Good, good, good, not cut. Do you cook them? Maybe just to get the germs out of these three things. I didn't look up the recipe. No, yeah. You could look up the recipe for hair brain. Hey.

It's a hair brain scheme. There you go. Yeah, indeed. Is that where that comes from? No, maybe, I don't know. I don't know. There were also other saves based on different plants and herbs or certain teas.

One traditional remedy was rubbing a live fish on your baby's gums. It's sort of like a magical transference and then you would throw it back into the water and it would take the baby's pain with it. Okay, sure, why not? But things really went awry in the 16th century when a French surgeon, I think we've talked about paray before, Ambrose paray, decided that the problem is that the teeth need to come through the gums, but the pain and all the discomfort is a result of that not happening naturally.

Like, you didn't believe like it just happened. We needed to help it out. And that would help your baby survive teething. Okay. So he advised lancing the gums to let the teeth rip. Oh, oh, that's the worst. I can't even think about that. I know. This, this actually made me cringe. To read about it. It was, this was practiced until like the 19th century. This was still being written about in textbooks up to 1938. This practice. And I mean, it's very simple. There was an initially, you need to remember, this was a time when

there was, this was not done with anesthesia, certainly. Sure. And there wasn't even really sterile practice. So dirty instruments, no anesthesia, you're cutting a baby's gums. How's it going? How is your first couple of years of life? And it's crazy. This continued to persist, despite the fact that, I mean, that was a cause of mortality. Well, the procedure.

The procedure certainly, yeah, I would think so. This led to other practices. That's brutal. If you didn't just want to lance the gums, you could blister the gums with like hot irons to try to allow the teeth through. You could bleed the gums by leaching them, put leeches on your baby's gums.

Come on, can you not? And there was one theory that it would help rush the teeth along if you applied caught her. So like a hot iron something, you know, to burn the back of the head. What are you doing old, tiny people? I don't know. These are babies. You're probably a baby, so it is.

Six to nine month old babies. What are you doing? Where were the parents? How are you like? Where were any of the adults? I'm an old-timey doctor who probably doesn't know what I'm doing in any respect. Could I put this leech on your baby's gums? Where were the adults? This is like some lor the fly is nonsense. This is a kind of garbage you'd hear about, like, if Neverland had a doctor, like this is what he was, well, you got the teeth there, and I guess we've got to make holes for the teeth. You're a child.

Like, what are you saying? That doesn't mean any sense. The teeth have been coming in for years, and we're just like, we haven't been helping them along. This is the one thing that, like, God was like, I forgot to perforate that. That's totally on me. If you guys can help me out, I know it seems to have been happening for like 1500 years since Jesus came. I should have, while he was there, asked him to look into that for me. I forgot to

why. Jesus do some really quick magic and perforate everybody's gums. If you use perforate everybody's gums, God we're stupid. Sorry. Ugh. Now in the 1700s there was introduce the idea of just putting stuff on the gums that would make your baby quiet. So a syrup of white poppies was first introduced. So cool. Which as you can imagine, probably

worked. Yeah, for anything. Yeah, whatever, whatever the bait, whatever ails your baby. Might I suggest white poppies, you know, whether it be teething or collic or fever or awake. Your baby, is that problem? Your baby, is that problem?

And they had like really nice fancy jars that you could buy and they all were for holding your syrup of white poppies. Maybe your baby has the problem that you would like to go see a movie tonight. Yeah. Just to serve you for that. Just put this syrup of white poppies. For those who may be unaware, I'm assuming no one is, but just in case you are, that of course poppies contain opium. So that's what you're really, that's what you're really getting at there. And this would lead to many many more

kind of over-the-counter type medications that we could purchase for teething. Like what kind of subset? Well, unfortunately, Justin, as much as I'd like to share that with you before I fill you in on any more teething cures, you're going to have to head down to the billing department. Ah, I racked up another one. Okay, I will handle that real quick. The medicines, the medicines that I skilled in my car before the mound. Okay, Sydney, teething powders, syrups, rings, hit me. So initially there were a lot of different teething powders and syrups that were popular

throughout the US and the UK. We're kind of moving into like the 1800s and the early 1900s and that's when there were all kinds of crazy medicines available for everything that everybody was selling. Usually they contained something that wasn't good for you. Maybe made you feel good, but wasn't good for you. So for instance, a lot of them had either alcohol, opium, morphine, cocaine. Get the job done, Jesus.

That baby felt pretty good at the end of the day. Baby fell amazing. Unfortunately, there were quite a few that contained mercury. Not good. There was a lot of obsession with bowel regularity at the time. As connected to TV? No, but most problems, like, at the same time, babies may be having some colloc and stuff and their TV and their fussy.

So give them this stuff that contains mercury because it also worked as like a laxative perfect So my baby is regular and my baby is high and your baby's getting mercury poisoning. I'm getting mercury poisoning. I'm fortunate. I'm all to avoid fatal teeth coming in through the gaps. These malignant, these malignant chew tumors that are emerging from my baby's beautiful gum line. I'm mortally wounded. What are these things?

These white monstrosities that I have in my mouth right now. I have them too. I'm sorry. This terrible curse. It is passed down through our family as long as anybody can remember. It's called teeth. It's called teeth. I'm so sorry. They told me not to have children, but you're still my miracle. I'm so sorry. So they're there. Forgive me. There are a lot of different. I mean, you can look up endless numbers of

like soothing types, syrups and powders and stuff online. But just as an example, there was one, I just really love this name, Adkinson and Barker's Royal Infant Preservative. It's delicious. It sounds like you, like that's how, that's what you put her on your baby when you put it in a jar and keep it on the shelf for a while.

Yeah, you wanna keep that just one longer. You wanna keep that baby fresh for a long time. It was basically just a bunch of different oils with alcohol in it. Great. And it worked for everything. Yeah, yeah. I mean, because it had alcohol in it. Sobriety for starters.

There was really famous Mrs. Winslow soothing syrup, which initially contained morphine, which is why it worked so well. But unfortunately, because it initially was not on the bottle, that it contained more fiend. Right. So moms were giving a lot of this to their infants, and this resulted in some really unfortunate outcomes. I can't imagine.

Yeah. So they were forced to remove any narcotics from it. Stop working. And then nobody else did it. It was too funny. Yeah. And ants. That was kind of the end.

That was all medicine back then. It didn't make your baby sleepy anymore. Right. And Jones and for morphing. There was also steedmen soothing powders which contained both mercury and opium. Oh great So don't worry double hit will poison your baby with mercury give him the runs and

Knock him out with opium But it had plenty of sugar to hide the taste of the mercury. So don't worry That's the perfect thing for teeth too Sugar get those sugar right in there that was actually really popular in a lot of these syrups and powders was to put enough sugar in there so that you couldn't taste the mercury. Got it. Sometimes I wish when I'm feeling dumb I wish I could go back to old timey times and walk around just feeling like the smartest dude on earth. I back it just find five things on my walk from like my house to the bank where it's just like 20 things I had. That's stupid. You're killing your baby

you are an idiot your legs gonna fall off that mean the great thing is like though even if you had told people they wouldn't have believed you because there were always and I should make that point I would get one thing right before they assume I'm a witch guaranteed no well there it is all throughout this history of I mean this a TV teething or anything else, anything we ever talk about. There are always like a handful of smart people who are going, you know, I don't think this is right. And who are writing papers, like even some doctors who are going, I just really think, maybe

just let your baby teethe. Why not? Just deal with it. But nobody ever listens to him. So teething rings have also been popular for a very long time. That's a thing though, right? Yeah, there's still a thing. Back in the 17th to 19th century in England, they were called corals. Why? Well, because they were usually made of coral. Oh, okay. But they could be made of bone or ivory. It's kind of rough. It is.

That's very hard. And it was kind of a ring. If you see one of those old silver rattles with a ring at the bottom, that ring was for teething. And the thing about it, it was supposed to use mechanically. Like it was supposed to work mechanically, like your baby choose on it. And that makes its gums feel better. And it made it was cold and hard

and that helps with the teething process. But it was also made of some kind of animal bone or ivory or something like that. And so it had this magical element that you could get the strength of the animal from it. So you could survive teething. That's what I want. I want my wolf baby.

You could also use a wolf's tooth. That was a very popular. That would be sweet. I mean, baby. You could also use a wolf's tooth. That was a very popular. That would be sweet. I mean, I guess you have to get a wolf's tooth. You're, or the kid has to get the wolf's tooth. You're six month old has to get a wolf's tooth. Like, baby, Crockett, he's got to kill him a bear we're usually three.

You've mastered holding your head up and now you can now sit up right. Here's a knife, kill a bear. Kill a wolf, get its tooth and you'll survive sit up right. Here's a knife, kill a bear. Kill a wolf, get its tooth, and you'll survive teething. So, wonder anybody made it out. I want you to kill 20 wolves, and then put their teeth in your mouth, and give yourself fake wolf teeth.

That no son of mine doesn't have fake wolf teeth. One product that was kind of, I think unique to itself, I didn't find a lot of common products in this theme was in 1903, there was Butler's Electro Medical Teethy Necklace, which was basically just some sort of electric necklace that your baby wears. They don't chew on it or anything, they just, I mean, they probably are going to chew on it. Right, because they're babies.

They don't chew anything. And they're teething, and that helps, but you just wear it and it would make your teeth grow in easier. I mean, I wouldn't. No, it wouldn't. It wouldn't work at all. It wouldn't do that at all, but it's something you could buy and give some of your money for.

It was just guaranteed to like make your baby like better. Like not just in terms of like TVing or not ill, just like, you know, it's better than other things. It's better like in inconclusive, ephemeral way that people aspire to be better in like olden times, just like more vigor or vim. Exactly. Whatever that is. Your baby's gonna look like one of those old fashioned like posters with like the guy

with the mustache and all the muscles and lifting the giant dumbbells. Get your get up and go. Exactly. Don't get sand kicked in your face anymore. What's your baby in this electric necklace? Well that seems like a whole safety issue though. Yeah. So I wouldn't have thought.

No, do you say electric necklace for a baby you can go wrong everything. There is a homeopathic remedy of course for teething. This one is actually I believe still wrong, everything. There is a homeopathic remedy, of course, for teething. This one is actually, I believe, still on the shelves. I don't think I've ever seen it. I think it's maybe more popular in the UK. But there's a Nelson's, and I should say this, I don't mean that people in the UK use this. I know there are probably like a ton of listeners

who are going, no, right now. I'm just saying, I've never seen this on the shelves here. I think you're more likely to find it on the shelves there. Nelson's Teeva and Boots Alternatives Teething Pain Relief. They're both made by the same company secret. I figured that out. Really? Yeah.

They're resting. They're still in the market as far as I know. And they contain some delusion, you know, because that's a remember, that's how homeopathy works. The more that greater the delusion, the, sorry, did I say delusion? What I meant to say was delusion, the greater the delusion.

But delusion works. Okay. Just as well to be fair. The greater the delusion, the stronger the medicine. So these are, I think some kind of granules and they contain some very, very small amount of chamomile. Because you don't want to screw around chamomile. A little bit of it.

A little bit of it. You put a little bit of it too much on this and your baby's engine. That little bugger's gonna be revving for days. You don't wanna play around, Cam and mele. It's just so soothing and relaxing. It is so soothing. If you give your baby too much of this, he is just gonna be like,

sunglasses on, Hawaiian shirt. It's good. Do you mean buff it on the radio? We'll spuds McKenzie, just living his days out in the couch. Everything's chill, everything's cool. Yeah. He's got to take things more seriously than that.

Yeah, your baby's got to get serious. Now, to be fair, this is probably not a dangerous treatment. No. It's probably not nearly dangerous to be a electro-medical teething necklace. Right. So, Sid, what about, now, I mean, we mentioned the rings. Is there anything else?

Well, the most important thing to know about Tee-Deen is that, okay, we'll want it's normal. Sure. We finally figured out, I mean, it really took us to the early to mid 1900s before doctors finally agreed and made the statement, Tee-Deen is normal. It is not a leading cause of death among infants or ever a cause of death. Now some of our treatments were, for sure. Good job. But teething itself is fine. Your baby will most likely write it out with no need of assistance for anybody or anything. But there are some things that can help out because I mean, you're a little guy or girl is hurting.

So rings are helpful. You can use teething rings. Make sure there's something that they can't chew, chew up, you know, chew a part and swallow. That's the main thing. But most teething rings are like that. Your, your baby would not be able to chew through them unless they already have teeth in which case. I mean, what are you doing? What are you even doing? You clearly, you need to go back to the beginning of this episode where I tell you what teething is. There are medications out there, a lot of like topical stuff you can put on your gums

to try to numb the pain. For the most part you just want to avoid a lot of them. Occasional Tylenol is okay or some ibuprofen. Don't have. You know when your baby is not just faking it, when they really need it. Like faking teething? Faking the paint. I mean, you can look and feel and see if there are teeth coming in.

All right. But pretty much if your baby's fussy, um, doesn't want to eat as much, pulling at their ears, they probably are teething. Um, again, I wouldn't, I wouldn't use a lot of topical stuff. Don't use aspirin. Uh, they're, you know, you can read a lot of suggestions from all the mom sites online, but like chilled foods are good or frozen things, cold things tend to help anything with pressure on the gums, cold rags. If you look around the world, there are some interesting ideas that are

in use in Japan, they like wooden rings. It's very popular. Zwiebach Toast, I believe, is very popular in Germany. It's just a hard toast. You can get that here. And then there's a traditional African medicine method of tying a raw egg over the bed. Just like suspended in a little pouch above your baby. Okay, well that doesn't seem like a treat, man. It seems like it will be that should have been a little earlier in the episode. Maybe it's still in use. I mean, there's lots of things in you, Sinsur. I used to bagel when I was little. Okay. Yeah, my mom just tied a bagel to a rope. I had that. Rope bagel? A rope bagel.

Okay. I had a rope bagel. It's important not to confuse actual illness with teething, which is why I say teething does not cause a fever. If your baby really has a fever, you know, talk to your doctor, get it checked out. And there are some traditional medicines in use in the Middle East and India that do contain lead. So if you're in contact with any of those kind of traditional medicines, I would want to know

if they contain lead. And if they do, don't use them. And also you probably don't want to use whiskey, which is a popular treatment in this part of the world. All right. You know, just give your baby a little whiskey. Or don't. Don't.

Don't do that. Remember we're throwing back now to Miss Winslow and her soothing syrup. Right. Not a good plan. I want to thank you all so much for listening to this episode of Saw Bones. We hope you enjoyed our first live show last week. Thank you to everybody who came out to that That was like really really really cool To see everybody the first time I've ever done a live show Sydney. You had fun, right?

I had a ton of fun. Thank you everybody for making it so easy and painless especially to some of the people who brought us presents like a prohibition bakery. Oh gosh those are good. Give us some delicious cupcakes. They were so considerate they're they're there are boozy cupcakes but they made some non-bosy ones for this it's just for me and I ate them all they were delicious the I want to thank people who are tweeting about the show like Steven Crazy Cat Lady

Jen Hince Tina wall Ellie Jacqueline Not that Rachel Ross Tyler Matheson Christian a Dachie Susie our sports and Max burn Amelia Elizabeth rival Jordan, Anthony Riggs, so many others, you're all the best. So other than Leslie and Adam at Prohibition Bakery, who gave us those delicious cupcakes, we also got an adorable onesie and some really cool art.

From Justin Gray. So thank you for that, Justin. And thank you so much to Callie too, who is a beautiful illustrator who gave me some postcards with her gorgeous artwork on it and enjoyed our show as well. So thanks to everybody for coming after the show and giving us stuff and saying hi. It was so neat to meet everybody and thanks to people's in prof theater for having us and you're all the best, I guess. You know you are. You are. You are the best. We're on the maximum fun network.

There's a ton of great podcasts. You can listen to there. Like Jordan Jessica, stop podcasting yourself. Lady to lady, one bad mother, the goose down. My brother, my brother and me. So many others. So make sure you head to maximum fun and we're gonna download all of those. That's gonna do it for us. We are here every Tuesday with new episodes,

pretty much every Tuesday, I guess. Yeah. And we're gonna be here next Tuesday with another episode. Until then, I am Justin McRoy. I'm Sydney McRoy. That's always, don't Draw a hole in your head. Alright! Yeah! Maximumfund.org.

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