Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: The Father of Homeopathy

Episode Date: February 4, 2014

Welcome to Sawbones, where Dr. Sydnee McElroy and her husband Justin McElroy take you on a whimsical tour of the dumb ways in which we've tried to fix people. This week: We cure everything with chicken. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers (http://thetaxpayers.net)

Saw bones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books! One, two, one, two, three, four! We came across a pharmacy with a toy and that's lost it out. We pushed on through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

The medicines, the medicines, the escalators, my cop, for the mouth. Wow, welcome everybody and welcome to Saul Bowos a Harold tour of Miss guided medicine. I am your co-host Justin McAroy and I'm sitting McAroy Hey, you look angry Yeah, Justin, you know, it's a it's a new year and I really thought as part of the new year You were trying to like you know take a little better care of yourself, like eat a little healthier and get a little more exercise, you know. Crack true, true, ultra. The old ticker there. Yep.

You were not getting any younger. So you were trying to do that, right? Uh-huh. Yep. Well, see, that's interesting because I noticed in your office trash can today a KFC bucket. Well, technically speaking, it's a go-cup. I guess it's bucket shaped. It's technically a small bucket that once held chicken tenders in front of you.

Wait, so there's a whole lot on a side note. Are they serving chicken in a go-cup now? Yeah, it's a 15-year-old cop holder. So you just slam it. Wait, so there's, hold on a side note. Are they serving chicken in a go cup now? Yeah, it's a, it fits in your cup holder. So you just slam it. So you can, small bucket. Do you just eat it out of the cup? Yeah. Do you use your hands or do you just like stick your head in it?

Oh, no, no, no, no, it's a, yes, sitting in your right, that is a KFC cup, but I had to. You had to. You had to. Yes. For your health, you had to, for your new healthy lifestyle, taking care of your body, you had to eat Kentucky Fried Chicken. It's prescription. It's prescription homeopathic treatment

for my asthma. Okay, a couple of points. One, you don't have asthma. OK, a couple points. One, you don't have asthma. So it worked. OK, two, chicken doesn't treat anything. It's a homeopathic treatment. It wouldn't surprise me that you haven't heard about it. This is a stumbling block that we run into a lot.

I know you're more on the alipathic tip, but it's a homeopathic cure that I read about on Reddit. Okay. For asthma. Do you even know a homeopathy is what a homeopathic cure is? Basically it's like when you make something up, right? And then you just say that it helps. No, no.

That's how I've been using it for the past few years and you haven't corrected me. No, that's not, homeopathy is like a thing. Like it's a whole thing and there are certain definitions, like it means something. It's not just, you know, stuff that you're not supposed to have that you pretend curious something. Okay, so why don't you help me out?

Where did, if it's a real thing then someone had to have come up with it. Yes. Yes. All right. You want me to tell you about homeyopathy. If we're going to, if I'm going to tell you about homeyopathy, I'm going to tell you about Samuel Hanuman. All right. I like the sound of that. Or actually, his full name was Christian Friedrich Samuel Hanuman, but that just seems like a lot. Yeah. So let's go with Sammy. I'm guessing he went by Samuel. That seems to be what I found. Oh, Sammy, maybe. Maybe Sammy.

Sam. Sam. Sam myster. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know what his friend called him. So he was a German physician. He lived from 1755 to 1843.

He was born near Dresden. And he was a super smart guy. Really, really smart. Yeah, that's number one thing you need to know about Hanuman. He was like a really wicked smart guy. Really, really smart. Yeah, that's number one thing you need to know about Hanuman. He was like a really wicked smart guy. When he was younger, his, I guess he must have come from a pretty smart family. His dad really wanted him to kind of stay home and be homeschooled more or less, because he thought formal education wasn't going to like do his mind justice. And he would pull him out of school periodically to like practice thinking lessons with him.

That's a great idea. I wish my dad had done that for me. I don't know. I was thinking about that. Is would that be fun? Maybe if he didn't know it was coming and you were worried about it all the time. That would really keep you on your toes like whoa whoa. I thought that was my dad. Sorry. I got scared. Think about what a bummer like you get caught in the office and your dad's there. And he's like, I'm taking you home for the rest of the day. I don't want you in school anymore. And you're like, score. I'm not a school.

Unless he come, like, what if he only comes during like, cooking class or gym? I guess that would be a bummer. Yeah, you're like, yeah, he only comes during a recess. Yes. Well, but I mean, whatever he pulled you out of, if it was to do a thinking lesson, I don't know how much fun that would be.

Mm. It seemed pretty fun and finding Forster when Sean Connery was giving that kid thinking lessons. I didn't see the movie, but it is what seemed like it was going on in the trailers. He gives him thinking lessons. You're all from a now all you learn to think. What is a thinking lesson?

Like, I don't know. I clearly haven't had any. So in addition to his thinking lessons, he also studied, I mean, I guess, actual subjects. He was interested in pharmacy, botany, physics, basically everything. He learned a ton of different languages. That was something that would persist throughout his life.

He could work as a translator actually later because he knew so many languages. But despite his father's urging otherwise actually, he was really interested medicine. What kid does want their kid to do medicine? I don't know. I don't know what he wanted him to do instead. I guess think more.

Maybe. That's gonna really cut into your thinking time, son. To stay at home and think. It's ponder. I don't know. Maybe we should do another episode on his dad figure out what he's doing. It sounds like a real cutting edge dude.

So he went and he studied medicine. Medicine, he went to a couple different places. A lot of this was due to the fact that he was from a poor family. And so he studied at Leipzig and he had to go to Vienna for a while. And he finally went to the University of Erlengen, Erlengen, and got his empty there.

I thought this was kind of interesting, just this little bonus fact. His graduate thesis was a dissertation on the causes and treatments of cramps. So far, except for Weird Dad, he seems like a pretty average dude. Well, he was, I mean, a dude who was really interested in cramps. Yeah.

Okay. Yes. Fair point. I'm guessing if it could fit a whole dissertation, he meant like all cramps. Mm-hmm. Whenever I hear cramps, I think like, you know, like, oh, my cramps are so bad. It's going to be a really heavy one. Well, I mean, that's what I always think like, you know, like, oh, my cramps are so bad.

It's gonna be a really heavy one. Well, I mean, that's what I always think of, but I mean, I guess it's like, ah, my leg cramped. Ah, I'm never gonna win the race now. I think it's probably all cramps. I don't think at some point he was like, this is just too broad for my thesis. I have to narrow it down to certain types of cramps.

There's too much to cover. This is my Everest. So like you said, he seemed like a regular guy. And at that point, what he did was pretty ordinary. He moved to a place, Mansfeld, Saxony. He worked in like a mining village. Is it like a village doctor? Okay.

He got married. He had 11 kids. Yeesh. Yep. A lot of them. And that could have, that could have been kind of the whole story. Worked there as a doc, had a big family, took care of people. But it's important to remember the time period. So like I said, we are now in the like the later 1700s at this point. Okay. Okay. And this was during what would be known as the age of heroic medicine or the age of heroic medicine. The satnail was not really about it.

Sounds exciting. Well, it does sound exciting. And it was probably exciting to be a doctor at the time. I don't know that it would have been very exciting to be a patient. And it was probably exciting to be a doctor at the time. I don't know that it would have been very exciting to be a patient. The idea was that, okay, the medical profession got together and said, look, we're not doing very well. We don't... I've got a real legitimate fear and this is going to sound crazy. I'm worried that someday people will invent electronic audio communication downloadable

weekly. And there's going to be two whippersnappers that are just taking us apart. I mean, you think about the things we've done. They don't make a lot of conventional sense. And it's not like we try to justify it in any way. We don't even have a point. I mean, we know we're making it up, but what if future people discover this? We'll be a laughing stock.

Well, and this is, but they're answer to this. I mean, because that's what they said is like, we don't really know what we're doing. People are dying. We're not preventing illness. So basically, new ideas are welcome. You got an idea. Let's try it. Anything.

Yeah, we are. It was like a Kickstarter for medical theories. We will make it happen. Come here and bring us your bloodletting. Bring us your arsenic. Blistering became very popular at the time where, oh, you're sick. Well, I'm going to take a hot iron and blister your skin. Because why not?

And then I'm gonna keep the wound open for months and make it infected periodically. Yeah, and tons of different ways to make people vomit. Lots of different substances to make people vomit. And Hottiman, you know, as a practitioner in this time, was not thrilled about any of this. Oh, yeah. No, very... There's a point in this column. Yeah, very reasonably. He thought it was kind of crazy.

He noted that we were not helping a lot of people, that we didn't really have good reasons for doing any of this stuff, and that overall we were probably causing more harm than good. Look at Kevin over there. He's just blistering people. What are we doing? That other guy's just getting all his patients drunk. He's just getting people drunk. Second episode of Girl's Gone Wild. Are we giving OPM to babies? What's wrong with us? What are we doing? And so in that spirit, he tried to resist the common treatments.

At first, he just, in the absence of any, because if you erased a lot of the popular cures at the time, you ended up with nothing. Right. You know, while I'm not going to do anything dangerous, so I've got nothing left. So he started prescribing just kind of like good clean living, healthy food, fresh air, exercise.

Dr. Oz figure, I like it. Yeah, you know, just nothing too severe. I don't know if, you know, where his patients happy with this, maybe not. Not as good. Probably clean living is effective, but it's not fun or dramatic. No, not like blistering.

So eventually, he just abandoned the home medical practice. Okay. He got frustrated with it and he said, you know what, I know all these languages. I'm really good at translating stuff. I'm gonna start using that combined with my science background and translate various scientific textbooks into German. So he wanted to get a medicine go where the money was?

In translating textbooks. Translating German. So he started doing that and among the things he was translating, he translated William Collins a book on materiamedica which included a bunch of different cures and treatments and stuff, but among them was his theory on the cure for malaria, which was the Sincona tree bark. That's legit, right? Yeah, it includes the contains quinine. I knew about that from Elizabeth Gilbert's book. Really? Yes. Well, that's interesting. Yeah.

Well, that is totally true. It contained Quineine. Signature of all things, by the way, is what's called, if you want to read it. Your big fan of that. Yeah, it's a great book. So, he was right. Quineine was and still is a treatment that we use for malaria. Well, Hanuman didn't buy it right away. He was translating this book, he read that, he said, eh, I wonder if this is true. And as part of his dissatisfaction with the whole medical practice in general, he was kind of trying to debunk some of the things we did. And so he thought, well, I'm going to give this a shot. I'm going to get some of this bark, and I'm going to dose myself with it and see what happens. Okay. Now, it should be noted that he doesn't have malaria. Good. Let's go for him. So he gives himself

big doses of of quinine essentially and he starts to develop what he interprets as malaria-like symptoms fever sweats, chills, nausea, diarrhea, all kinds of symptoms that you might see with malaria. Okay. Now on a side note, we should point out that if you take too much quinine or even just a therapeutic dose of quinine, by the way, you can develop synchonism, which has a lot of those same symptoms. Okay, so we can safely assume that's probably what was happening. Yeah, I mean, it's toxic and high doses, and even as anyone who's ever been treated with

quinine from malaria, it can tell you, even in regular doses, it creates a horrible, roaring sound in your ears that prevents you from hearing anybody for days while you're on it. So it's not a pleasant medicine to take. Well, he took it, he got really sick, and with symptoms that he identified as malarial symptoms and said, huh, so maybe if this medicine that works to fix malaria in a healthy person, or in a sick person, causes malaria in a healthy person, maybe in general, like cares like. So if you take something that would be toxic in a healthy person, it will always cure that thing in a sick person.

Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, so like. The law of similar, like cares like. So I know it doesn't work this way, but like So like we'll sort of like vaccines, right? He actually that well, and that's actually he didn't draw this this comparison But in a lot of the reading I did on homey-opathy today They'll they'll use that example a lot

patients who get flu shots which have killed flu germs in them As a way of preventing the flu. But I mean, but basically in his way of thinking like, front is if Ipacac makes you throw up, then if you're throwing up, you should be able to take Ipacac and it will make you feel better. You know, you'd think, yes, I mean, that isn't I did not find apricot among the homey up. No one's ever like actually seen apricot and I want those what it actually is. No, I mean, it is a real thing. It will make you throw up. We don't use it anymore. But it does exist. But yeah, I mean, you get

the idea. And so he began to experiment with this in a with other substances. He tried some more benign things, like just different herbs to see in, you know, various doses, how, what effect they had on people. And then he also tried more dangerous things like snake venom. And I think what's really interesting is he tried these experiments on himself. He also enlisted friends and some of his children to help him out with this. Ah, come on Sam.

I mean he had 11. He couldn't spare some. He's just a burner. It's just a burner kid. I don't know. I had this one to experiment about malaria with. Not to be fair, I got the impression from my reading that they were older and Complicit and wanted to help out with dad's I was saying it was mine

Dad, why did you name me crash test Doug? I don't worry about it drink this snake venom drink this snake venom. They are pincushion Now initially when he started giving Actual sick people these toxic substances, they just seem to get sicker. Hmm. What? What?

Isn't that? So, he thought about that and he said, you know what? It must be that when you are sick, there's already something going on with you. You know, you're already imbalanced, so we need to give you a smaller amount. And this is where dilution comes in with homeopathy. And if anybody is familiar with it, you kind of know what I'm talking about here. You take the whatever the toxic substance, disease causing substance, whatever the herbal thing, whatever it is that you're using. You take one drop of it, and you put it into 99 drops of water or alcohol depending on what you're using. You take one drop of it and you put it into 99 drops of water or alcohol

depending on what you're using. You then continue that dilution several times over. How many times I'm assuming it depends on the patient and the disease and the substance, but you keep doing that. Okay, I will probably lose count, but it can't matter. Eventually the idea is that no actual quantity of the substance exists in the mixture, but kind of the footprint or the echo of it. The vibe. Yeah.

The vibe of it still exists. Yeah, that's a lot. That's not true, right? I mean, it's still in there. That's the basis of homey-off. I'm not a scientist, but it seems like it's still there. And so, well, I'm sure there are some, there's some atom of it left.

Okay. But that's not the idea. It doesn't matter. The concept is not that there is an atom of it left. It's what it did to the substance to be, you know. Gives it its vibe. Yes. And that's what you give to the patient. Okay.

And that is what I'm going to do. And it's different. I give to the patient. Okay. And that is my job. And it's different. I should know from my reading, again, I am not trained in homeopathy. It's different for different patients. So you and I might have the same illness, but depending on our emotional and mental state, we may have completely different cures.

Sun a little hippy-dippy to me, so I don't know. I'm gonna stick with my KFC treatments for asthma at this point right now. There's still not homeopathic, I don't know. Oh, well, okay, I agree. Are you diluting the chicken in some way? With fries.

With coke? Diet, that's okay. Wait, you're diluting the chicken with coke? I mean, does that come in the go-cup? Do you just pour coke directly in the chicken and fry? The go-cook itself is actually a blender. You just throw in the coke, make a slurry, and jam it. Ugh, sorry.

Does KFC serve fries? Yeah, pretty good fries, little thick, but okay, this is off topic. Okay, I just want some fries now. Okay, so in addition to this, and again, if you were familiar at all with homeopathy, this all sounds very familiar to you because we just kind of describe the basic tenets. On a side note, I think it's worth mentioning

that Samuel Hanuman for a while, toyed with the idea that most disease was caused by coffee. Now, I'm no barista, but I've found coffee usually fixes me up, makes me feel real good in the mornings when I need it, and it will pick me up, it'll go, juice. I'm assuming this was the beginning of, because I feel like every couple of years

in the medical literature, like we release some new report about coffee, and then it gets printed in the, you know, in the mass media, like, coffee's good for you. You should drink coffee, you'll live longer, and then like two years later, we're like, never mind, coffee's killing everyone. It was bad the whole time.

This, I guess this is where it started. So you're saying salmon, thonamins, right? Half the time of that coffee. Right. So it depends on what year it is. 50% of the time it could be right. I don't think most diseases are caused by coffee. Well, everybody's entitled their own beliefs, I guess.

From what I could tell though, this was not a long-held belief. He quickly kind of abandoned that because he later spoke of the idea of measmas. Now I think we've mentioned this before. Measma theory, the idea that there are forces like these kind of intangible things around us, I guess like the force vibes. Yeah, that caused disease. So he introduced the idea in his 1828 book, The Chronic Disease, of three major measmas. Now I don't think this was groundbreaking for him to name these three. I think these were already kind of around.

He just defined them and kind of put them in this context. The big one that we need to talk about is Sora. No, Sora coffee. Well, Sora isn't coffee, but he did list a lot of the same diseases that he said were caused by coffee as now being caused by Sora. Oh, okay, passing the book. So he said, maybe he started liking coffee,

then he said, never mind. Well, listen, I've been having a black time. I'm so wrong. And apparently that's just not what I like. I like it with a little, a little half and half and a little spunda. So now I'm into coffee. Not into coffee, but I'm not into Sora.

Not into Sora. Keep that away. And that Sora is the measma that's responsible for like 85% of disease. So it's the big one. It references some kind of force, like I said. And this particular one, Sora can cause stomach ulcers, swollen glands, organ dysfunction, epilepsy, TB asthma. Well, there you go, asthma, not chicken. Okay. Anything. So no, no,

no, you don't understand. The Sora caused my asthma, which I cured with chicken, with a delusion of chicken, with a delusion of delicious chicken. Bodlest, thank you. I'll never understand that. So sore causes most of the disease. There are two other me. Okay, Sydney, I love you. You keep saying that sore does these things. Sores are not real, right? Like, because you keep saying that Sora does these things. Sora's not real, right? Like, because you keep saying it, and it's getting very confusing for me in this seat, over here. In the theory of homeopathy, there are three measmas. So if you're writing a paragraph for a man,

that would have been underlined at the top, and then you would have put this below it. Because you keep saying these things, and I don't know if you know this, I just accept it verbatim. Okay, well, I am not saying that I necessarily believe that. Okay. This is, okay, I'll go ahead and put this out there.

I am not sure if a modern homeopathic position believes this or not. Okay. I am really not sure. I found some articles where they do, and then I found some articles where they were arguing that maybe it needs to be looked into again. When there's not a lot of research to back things up, it can be hard to reach consensus. Exactly.

And there's not as far as I can tell. This medicine is a lot more based on experience, and it's that is stated. Hanuman said that. This is the medicine of experience, not the medicine of stated, Hanuman said that. This is the medicine of experience, not the medicine of experiment, I guess, I made that up. That's good. But that was the basis for it. I was good, you just go on without a top of your head. Yeah, that's good.

Thanks. But it worked, so they did it again and again. Or they said it worked. I don't know if it worked. They said it worked. People think it works. People say. So in this theory, in this theory, there are two other measmas you should know about.

There's psychosis, that's with an S, not with a P. Not a meaghan piece. It's from the Greek for fig, which is because psychosis, the big thing, the hallmark of psychosis is that it causes warts, which I guess look like figs. Okay. So, if you have a wordy protrusions anywhere, you've got psychosis. It can also cause sexual and urinary diseases, and anything that's worse than by damp leather. Like arthritis. Like arthritis, okay. Strangely, the third measma is not the one that causes sexual and urinary diseases, and it's called syphilis.

Not to be confused with syphilis. This is why there can't be like a whole other kind of medicine, because I can't even keep the other one straight. And somebody's made up another kind. I don't know. Syphilis is already a thing. There's also words just use one of those words. I found in one thing I was reading about Homiopathy, the theory that Hanuman were he to rename this today would almost certainly not use the word syphilis for it because he- Because he'd have Google?

Yeah, syphilis obviously already existed. We've talked about this before. Syphilis has been around for a really long time. But it was named for syphilis was seen as a disease that caused a lot of destruction, and this particular measma can cause mass destruction of the body, some really bad stuff, so that's why it was named Cifilus. So it can cause nervous system disorders, blood, skeletal problems, any psych stuff, alcoholism, heart disease. So, okay, are these...

And anything that happens at night, by the way. Anything that tends to, if it's a disease that tends to happen at night, it's caused by syphilis. Okay, I know this, we're a little bit outside of your area of expertise right now, but like, were these just like clouds of stuff like floating around, or were're just like waves of it, permanent. But it's just, they're just forces that are around us and within us. Okay.

And that cause chronic disease. So if you are somebody who has allergies or asthma or something that is chronic or you're somebody who keeps getting about of an illness over and over again, you have one of these. So like the humors kind of? Well, sort of, except that your humors are always in you.

They just need to be balanced. These aren't necessarily in all people. And when you have them kind of attached to you or within you, they change your health. Okay, got it. They imbalance you. I understand it as well as I'm going to. So you have to treat them homeopathically. Got it.

Now as you may imagine this was controversial. Yeah, I would think so. He had as many detractors. Oh, excuse me. Mr. Hanuman, Dr. Hanuman, sorry. You named one of them syphilis. Do you know that that's I don't want to start a controversy, but you know that's a thing. Okay, just want it. Got you double go. Sorry, go right ahead. So this was the other syphilis.

This is syphilis two. It's back. This time it's personal. There's so many weird things you can name things. This time it's all over. And syphilis is such a thing. Syphilis is like a total thing. It's a big thing. I can't get hung up on this. I'm sorry.

Okay. So it was very controversial. He was not recognized by a lot of the traditional medical organizations. He was seen as a quack for his theories. But there were definitely people who followed him, especially in the US who who kind of latched on to this Idea and began to practice it and in particular a lot of the reason that he was protected and allowed to practice and teach his craft Was that there was an archduke who in his whatever his I don't know city state realm county What whatever archduke's realm County, whatever, whatever. Let's go with realm. That's good.

I like that. I'd do Lord over who was a firm believer in his practices and kind of protected him. Okay. So he was allowed to continue to work and teach. He eventually, his wife died at some point. He married a much younger woman and he moved to Paris and lived out the extent of his life. He died at 90, still practicing homeopathy.

Living at 90 in 1843, it was at least something, right? Yeah, I mean, it was doing something right. However, homeopathy did not die. Did not die with Sam. No, no, no. It continued on past him. I think it's interesting. The main reason that a flourish in the US was a doctor, Constance Herring, who was an

MD who was actually working to disprove homeopathy. He was working with some sort of disease-causing substances in a lab, some sort of accident, left him with a severely injured hand and traditional medicine at that time would have just advised amputation. Is this how he found a follower or a Batman villain? Both. Both. Okay. If you're looking for a new Batman villain. Yeah. So he did not want to amputate his hand. Even though at the time the thought was that the infection would spread and he would die.

So he started using the homeopathic remedies that he was trying to disprove and his hand healed and he didn't have to amputate it and so he became a believer at that moment. Wow. So is this, like, is it still happening? Did it continue or? It did. It had a huge, at the time, he opened, like, the Philadelphia's Homeopathic Medical College, which actually later became the Hanuman Medical College in hospital, which actually later became the Hanuman medical college in hospital

Which still is named the Hanuman something hospital in that area. I'm sure a lot of people right now are yelling like oh It's the Hanuman but it's still a hospital today name for you by the way By 1900 there were 111 homeopathic hospitals and 22 med schools in the US Wow however homeopathic hospitals and 22 med schools in the US. Wow. However, with the introduction of medicines like penicillin and the antibiotic air in the 40s, stuff started to fall out of favor. By 1923, it had dwindled to two med schools and then there are no official programs that exist today.

There are some schools that can issue certificates, I believe. You can be startified in homeopathy, but there's no licensing. There are a lot of people who get MDs or DOs or other degrees and then also learn and practice homeopathy and then certainly independent practitioners, but it's not a formal program. Do you think I could get a certificate in a homiopathy? I think if you went to one of the schools, I don't, I- It seems like a lot of life.

I think everything's available online. You can be an ordained minister. Online super probably. It's not a big deal. In the 60s, there was a huge resurgence, which is why it's still around today, probably. Well, you know, there was a return to nature and more natural solutions. I will say this that in the 90s, it became recognized as a part of what a lot of

traditional practitioners call CAM, complimentary and alternative medicine practices. And JAMA, the Journal of American Medical Association, actually wrote an article saying that we should just consider Homie op the another tool in our belts in the 90s. So it's used more widely in other countries I'm sure some of our listeners from outside the US are very familiar, but there are certainly practitioners in the US today Does it work? Are you asking me? I'm not a doctor. I don't know. Well, I'm telling you, I don't know. Probably, sometimes it works, or at least, is conducted at the same time as the person

being cured. The official standpoint of any medical organization would tell you that it is regulated by the FDA, so there's no reason to think that it's harmful, the medications that are used, or the homeopathic, I don't know if they would like medications, homeopathic remedies, treatments. But it should not be used as the only method of treating something. So if you have been diagnosed with cancer and you want to also visit a homeopathic practitioner, that's great, but you should probably go ahead and see somebody with traditional medical background as well,

and both can be used in conjunction. That's usually the stance of most medical organizations. There's not a lot of research, not a lot of evidence, so I don't know how to advise you otherwise. And we wouldn't anyway, because we're a podcast. Exactly. A podcast that you listen to every Tuesday or you know whenever you want to. It's completely up to you. We record it for you so you'll enjoy it

at your leisure. Thank you so much to people who were sharing our show and tweeting about it this week. People like our friends at Games by Playdate who are working on the solvath games I'll share with you as soon as we can that looks fantastic. I like a lot of fun. Daniel Cobal, Justin Dale, Charles B. Rob Soden, Terran Nicole, Louis Britany, Lindsey Gates, Marquell, Fred Wood, Chris Day, Baron Von Chicken Pants. All right. All right. We're hot shot. Thanks. This is a slow, slow, you're all there. Thank you to so much people sharing the show.

We sure appreciate it. And that's the only way that we can get bigger. So please take a couple of minutes. This week and tell people to listen to Sobbing. And how can they send us emails, Justin? You can just send that on over to Sobbing's MaximumFun.org, speaking of that URL, Sydney, that's where all the other great shows on the maximum of fun network are shows like stop podcasting

yourself, the goose down, the new international waters with our buddy Dave Hill. My brother, my brother and me. Thank you, Sydney, my brother, my brother and me, one bad mother, Jordan Jesse Goe, Josh Donald Hodgmann, so many others for you to enjoy. And they're all worth listening to, so go give them a few minutes of your valuable free time.

Thank you to the taxpayers for letting us use their song, medicines, for our opening and closing. You can find them on Twitter, the taxpayers, and thank them for their generosity and by all their flipping music. Please, and be sure to join us to get next Tuesday for another episode of Solve It until then, I'm just Macaroid.

I'm Sydney Macaroid. It's always, don't do the whole thing in your head. Alright! Maximumfund.org Comedy and Culture, Artistone Listener Supported