Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: The Poison Squad

Episode Date: November 27, 2015

This week on Sawbones, Dr. Sydnee and Justin highlight some of medicine's most incredible superheroes. Their power? Eating trash and not dying. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Saabones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a twin that's busted out. We were shot through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines, the escalant macaque for the mouth. Wow! Hello everybody and welcome to Saul Bones of two of misguided medicine. I'm your co-host Justin McElroy and I'm Sydney McElroy Sydney Are you feeling over there? Yeah, I feel bad. It's the day after Thanks giving a black Friday and it has certainly been a black one for me my stomach is doing things I did not know it was capable of any longer. Not since my preteen years of eating my entire Easter basket, have I experienced this level of tummy distress?

That's not good. So it's actively bad. I'm assuming then you're not going to be doing any black Friday shopping as a result. No. Except for that you went out to buy the ingredients to make macaroons, so like, you're not doing too bad.

Macaroons or a Black Friday tradition. Go all the way back to last year when I made them. So would you say that you overindulged yesterday, just on Turkey Day? You should have done what I did glad that you got that in here. I just, I think that my public persona is kind of a little nerdy, right? You know, like I like science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science,

science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, science, But I'm glad that you got that in here. I just I think that my my public persona is it kind of a little nerdy Right, you know like I like science and history and like none of those things are particularly sexy But I'm also cool now because I'm a sport. I'm a sport. Oh good good good touchdown girl I am I did I did two good touchdowns my daddy was very proud of me He was he was he gave me he gave me two high fives Whoa, and I'm feeling great and I'm sorry that you're not. Yeah, but why am I not? Well, I mean probably just cuz you ate a whole lot. Yeah, I don't think it was more than I've normally eaten

I think something more sinister is going on here. Well, I mean it's I guess it's always possible since yesterday And the center's going on here. Well, I mean, I guess it's always possible since yesterday was a day that entirely centered around eating lots of food that we all prepared ourselves, not that any of us and our family don't know how to cook, but when you're cooking mass quantities for lots of people and you're under a lot of time crunch, sometimes maybe you cut some corners and maybe stuff doesn't get completely done. Not in my kitchen, but I think I'm sure in some people's kitchen that is duragir. And that could be a setup for maybe a little food poisoning.

Or maybe a setup for an episode about food poisoning. Sure, either way, both of this things. So why don't we talk a little bit about what might be going on inside your tummy right now? Okay, I guess I'm ready for that. So, first of all, thank you to Hannah and Ariel for suggesting the topic of food poisoning in general, but let's start with what could be going on with you, Justin, which is salmonella. Yeah, I know that one because it's the one that Lysol was invented to fight from their commercials.

That's what you know about salmonella. You know something else about salmonella. Salmonella looks like little squiggly lines and it's left behind by raw chicken. Okay. I mean, if you spray Lysol on the squiggly lines, they dissipate for 99.9%. Okay. Well, that's what I've learned. Sure. Salmonella is a bacteria, not a squiggly line. 9% Okay, well that's what I've learned sure

Salmonella is a bacteria not a squiggly line and We've talked a lot about Salmonella actually already. I don't know if you realize this because it's it's the Salmonella family The Salmonella family of products is responsible for typhoid. Oh, yeah, which remember we talked about I do know that somewhere. But there are like less dangerous like syruvars of salmonella that cause, I mean unpleasant foodborne illness, but are much less likely to kill you. You don't get quite as sick as you do with typhoid. You know what's crazy is salmonella was actually the first of the food-borne pathogens that we isolated and knew caused illness. Like before E. coli or Shageller, any of the other things we think of is like, you know, food poisoning type items.

I was thinking it was like the most boring regular type of food poisoning. Salmonella. Salmonella is like the chicken of food poisoning because it's like it got really hot for no it wasn't a joke It got really hot for a while like for a while everybody was talking about it for for a while It really seemed like chicken was out to get us chicken was finally gonna make strike back when was it really hot like Do you remember when lice all got like really angry?

Okay, all you know is lice all this This is the one I'm getting to be thinking about Salmanella's Lysol. It just, there was a lot of commercials there for a while. Like it would be black and white, but the chicken would leave behind purple squiggly lines. And it's like, wow, it's how people must have felt when they, when germ theory was invented like, oh man, that's not just like slime.

There's like, there's lots of germs in there and stuff. I hate it. I think, I think people get nervous about Salmanella because you know, it has something to do with chicken and we eat a lot of chicken. That's my, that in there and stuff. I hate it. I think people get nervous about salmonella because you know it has something to do with chicken and we eat a lot of chicken. That's more my theory. Yeah, that could be it too. There have been, and this is probably what you're referencing,

there have been outbreaks of salmonella in the US in recent years that are highly publicized and the media talks a lot about them. It's interesting though, we always associate salmonella with chicken and certainly it can be in poultry and turkey as well, which is why we're talking about it, they have to Thanksgiving. But it also, from some of the outbreaks we've had,

you know, that it's spinach has been the culprit beef, which we don't ever think about, can carry salmonella, eggs, peanut butter, actually, a couple times has caused some big outbreaks of salmonella. But certainly chicken too, I think even really recently in the last couple months, there's been some recalls on some different chicken type products, like some breaded, like pre-prepared frozen breaded chicken

and chicken cordon blue and stuff that was associated with some salmonella. And of course, when you get salmonella in the interica strains is what we're talking about that aren't the non-typhoid ones, basically, the non-typhoid strains. You're mainly going to get nausea, vomiting, your stomach's going to cramp, you're going to get diarrhea.

Let's see. This would be about the sweet spot in terms of when that's gonna start happening for you, because we're about, we're between 12 and 72 hours out from when you ate. So basically I'm asking how are you feeling? I mean, never very good. Like, I've pretty much like had a bad tummy since I was like 25, just like every day.

Well, I don't think you've had Salmon Ellis since you were 25. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, I'm about baseline. I'm one baseline is pretty bad. Like, my whole family has pretty rough tummies, I would say 24 sets. That's true, that's very true.

Well, Salmon Ellis only gonna last you about four to seven days. The big thing is just to stay hydrated. And that's true with anything that causes you to puke and poop a lot. Just try not to lose a lot of fluid and replace what you do lose. And by that I don't mean like take a modium. I just mean like drink a lot of water and geturate. Pedialide is actually great for this. Sinorral medicine could help.

No, I mean there are antibiotics that we can give you and certainly if you already have certain chronic diseases that might make it harder for you to get over something like this, if you're in a vulnerable part of the population like the very older, the very young, or if you just get really sick for whatever reason from it, we can give you antibiotics. There are lots of different classes that can be helpful. But for most of us, we don't really recommend even taking antibiotics for it because it really doesn't help that much with your symptoms. And it will actually cause you to continue to shed. The bacteria shed is the word I just used. We are still a profanity free show. But you will shed it in your stool. Okay, so yeah.

For longer if you take antibiotics. And that's not a good thing because when it's coming out in your stool, that's when we worry about, remember my favorite, my favorite route of transmission? The fico oral. The good ol' fico oral route? That's how that happens is because you're wiping and you're not washing, which is never a good plan. So, you know, most people really shouldn't take antibiotics.

You should just grab your gatorade and take a few days off work. Why is life also upset about San Marano then? Is it because of the kids? Please somebody think the kids are San Marano. Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's an easy thing to educate people about and it's a good way to sell your product probably because A lot of us like I said, I mean unless you don't eat meat, you probably eat chicken Maybe more than other meats. I don't know. I feel like we do. Yeah. I would say a good amount Like I mean chicken is a very is like a staple most people. And you can buy a lot of it.

It's good for feeding lots of people. And raw chicken uses and you get goop and everything everywhere. And so it's like a good reason to have lice all I guess. Yeah, I think it's just a great way to sell it. It's a good marketing campaign. For sure. You got to be clean for some reason.

So why not, why not Salmanella? Salmanella. The other place that Salmanella lurks in addition to chicken, the other big thing that we don't talk enough about are reptiles. And I thought this was an interesting fact. So you know, have you heard this before, turtles and iguanas? Uh, no. Specifically, green iguanas and red eared slider turtles.

Okay. Are either this teenage or mutant? Not to my knowledge. I'm not that familiar with turtles. I don't think that's what the Salmonella does to them. It's that wow. I used to think it was mutant, the genic is, but apparently it's just plain old everyday Salmonella has a different effect on turtles. In 1975 I think this is great. So yes, reptiles can carry Salmonella and that's a fear if you're going to let your kid or I mean if you're an adult You can own a turtle too, but I mean the big fear was like if your kid wanted a turtle

So the FDA issued a regulation a law in 1975 called the four-inch law or the four-inch regulation Mm-hmm and what it said was that any turtles sold in the US had to have a Carapace that was at least four inches in length. And do you know what that is? What are care places? Yeah, they're shell. Yes.

Well, specifically, it's the dome-shaped back part of the shell. Inever requests. This item shouldn't get care-paces in your shell. Video games, again, that's good. They're very educational. Apparently about turtles. Not just Pac-Man anymore, folks. So they had to be at least four inches long,

the top part of the shell. Because basically, it would be harder for the kid to fit the turtle in their mouth if they were at least that long. That's awesome. And that was the worry was that kids were going to get these turtles and then stick them in their mouths and then get salmonella. And I believe that having a kid now,

they stick everything in their mouths. So yeah, they'd probably stick stick them in their mouths and then get Salmonella. And I believe that having a kid now, they stick everything in their mouths. So yeah, they'd probably stick the turtle in their mouth, and probably, right? Do you know how chill things must have been for the Food and Drug Administration that they like, took a day. It's like, let's get this turtle thing figured out. Kids are putting turtles in their mouths like crazy.

Like, why is it just, you know, there is actually, if you wanna get, as a parent, here's just something I've learned, about half of the things that there are are small enough to fit a baby's mouth. Like if you've got it and will kill them. Like if you have a determined baby, a determined suicidal baby,

like they will jam anything in there. Can we pass the orange law on on everything like nothing can be smaller than forages at all. Not well and let's just treat everything like it's draped in Salmonella right. Not just turtles. I wanted to talk a little bit. There are a lot of different bacteria that can cause food poisoning and frankly a lot of them could deserve their own episode.

Salmonella just doesn't now because I already took out the big gun, Typoid. So I want to talk in general a little bit about foodborne illness. It's been known, I love this term throughout history as death in the pot, what you called it when somebody died from, I don't know, they ate something and they got sick and they died and we didn't understand why, because we didn't know anything about bacteria, germ, or anything. But that was death in the pot. But there was death in the pot.

It was a new recipe. It's had a half cup death and I thought, oh, that sounds like a lot, but okay, winning your room. Actually, that's very apt because the Romans used these lead pots and then they've seeped into their food and they probably all got lead poisoning from it. That's a really great. But that's a whole different way to go back. No, I knew that answer.

That's why I decided to go there. We've known that different foods are different forms of food as in raw food or whatever has been dangerous since ancient times. And we know this because we have studied like mummies and bog bodies and skeletons and copper lights. Copper lights, I'm not familiar.

So like old, like mummified poop. Mmm, charming. And found like parasites and bacteria and all kind, you know, evidence that people got sick and got certain different kinds of, you know, foodborne illnesses all throughout ancient times. Although nobody probably knew that that's what they had or that that's what their, you know, family or friends had died of. In the beginning, we probably just figured out what not to eat by either watching what food animals avoided. Other animals, you know, they, you know, the, whatever, the saber-toothed tiger

will need that. So, this is like a Flintstone history. So, I won't need to either. Or trial and error. Or like, did you see what happened when Bob ate that? I think we do have some understanding that, uh, food that is cooked through. I don't know if this is like epigenetic or, we're just learned or whatever, but I think that we do have some sort of inherent revulsion to meat that is not finished being cooked. Like I think there is some genetic, like some trigger that we have for meat that is not all the way done. Well, we may have touched on this once before,

but it's really interesting. The concept of like disgust, you know, like being disgusted, something finding something gross or disgusting is it's an advantage, it's an evolutionary advantage. It is something that we have developed, the things that we tend to just naturally find gross and repulse us and we wouldn't want to put in our mouths, tend to be things that

could make us sick. So there's a reason that when you see, you know, like a wound that's infected and is using with pus that you go, oh, and try to stay away from it, because that's your DNA's way of saying there's bacteria there, stay away, stay away. And food that's rotten, probably, you know, it's the same idea. Some of it certainly is learned, but yeah, I mean, there is something innate, something that, you know, something animal about that, avoiding things that make you sick. Of course, there are biblical references to certain foods that you should avoid because they

could cause illness or different ways to prepare food. A lot of this could have been connected to. There was the idea of things that were clean in a spiritual sense, but also things that were clean in a very practical sense. Hypocrites know, hypocrite's actually used to advise his patients to either boil their water, and later he even developed a filter to use for water. Not really, again, not understanding that there could be anything in the water that might make people sick, you know, any kind of food poisoning or water poisoning or anything like that, He just noted that clean water tasted better.

And so stuff that smelled or looked dirty, he wanted cleaner just because it, he thought it tasted better. His filtering thing had to be madness, right? Like three T, three old T-shirts and some herbs that he found, whatever. Like what kind of T-shirts did Hippocrates wear, do you think? Well, he had so many from different bands. It was friends. They weren't in anymore. That he just had a pile that he would use just

for filtering water. You think Hippocrates was the kind of guy who just collected all of his old t-shirts and just wore them for years. He made a mess that they got faded and like, it's not intentional. It's like one day you would go, they're like, where did all these t-shirts come from? And he decided to use some of those filters.

Is this you or herpocrates we're talking about now? I would never go through the trouble of filtering my water. And I care too much about my old t-shirts. In ancient Grayson Rome, we knew there was, it's evidence that we knew not to eat diseased animals that we had some understanding that we would get sick. And we know that, we know that we already understood that because people used to try to hide it.

People used to try to cover up if the animals, you know, people who would sell butchers who would kill and sell animals, would try to hide that the animals had been sick by... They draw smiley face on them. That kind of thing. No. On the steak? No. Yeah, just draw a smiley face on the steak. You could see. It's good.

It's good steak. Very happy. No, no. Once they had slaughtered the animals, they would treat the meat with nutmeg because nutmeg would hide the taste and smell of decaying, rotted meat. And this, for a long time, nutmeg was really, even today, I think nutmeg is used in a lot of like sausages and hot dogs, and that's where this comes from. Oh, me.

Not because they're rotten now, but because of this like link with meat, it was so closely associated with meat because it was used to hide that we're selling you diseased, rotten meat. It's like I can't enjoy sausage this anymore. And there's a whole lot. If you want to talk about the history of adulterating food, of like trying to change food and drink that we know is dangerous in order to sell more of it, there's a, this is a long,

I mean, there are laws against this, like hundreds of years back because people have been trying to sell each other rotten meat as long as we've been trying to sell each other meat. Plenty. Yeah. Warned about this. No, he had a lot of this. Yeah, plenty of the other. He, of course, when it came to wine, he warned specifically that there were some, there were some wine sellers who would taint their wine with some noxious herbs, some stuff that would end up making you sick, as a way of making it up here fresher and brighter and more flavorful. And then you'd get really sick

from the stuff that they were putting in. And it even wants fresh wine. Didn't they know back then that it's like better if you wait like a hundred years whatever? I don't think it's a hundred years. I just think it's a hundred years. We obviously don't know what we're talking about. We don't actually know exactly how long you need to age your wine.

As we moved through history, you know, at first we thought that like some food might make you sick because of something we couldn't understand. Maybe there was some sort of chemical property or something like that of toxin. You know, this is after we stopped thinking it was like a punishment from the gods. There were some experiments done in the 1700s by Albrecht von Holler, who did a lot for the study of physiology, but one of the things he dabbled in was injecting decaying material into animals to see if they got sick. To see like, okay, just because something is like dead and decaying does that inherently make it dangerous. It's gross, it doesn't

smell good, but how does that make you sick? We still didn't understand, but he got the picture that it does make you sick. But it really wasn't until the 1850s when Louis Pasteur recognized it, you know. Sure, when Louis Pasteur invented germs. Well, no, but recognize that germs existed and that food, germs in food, probably caused illness and developed pasteurization or the process of heating food to kill the germs and then that's when we really started to put it all together. Thanks, Louis Pasteur.

First pasteurizing milk and now this. What can't that guy do? He can't make us any money. That's the answer. What can make us money? Well, it's going to be a billion apartment. Good idea, Justin. Thanks.

It's the first time I've ever come up with it myself. Let's go. That's my line. Okay, where were we? I know we were just singing the praises of Louis Pasteur and I'm still a big fan of that guy, even after the commercial break. So once we understood that inadequately prepared or cooked food caused disease and we understood that there were bacteria involved and we got the idea of foodborne illness, you would

think that would solve all our problems, right? Yeah. No. Because as we're moving into a time and specifically, we're talking about a lot about US history right now, when food was being prepared in mass quantities outside the home, you weren't raising your own animals and your own vegetables and all that and killing your own animals at home and preparing everything in your own kitchen, you were buying this stuff in stores. So it was being kind of prepared for you somewhere else. Right.

And as far as what standards people had to follow in that somewhere else where your food was being prepped, I mean, there weren't any. Everybody's trying to run a scam, everybody's trying to make a quick buck. Yes, everybody's trying to put stuff. The wheeling and dealing early 1900s, everybody's on their grind. Exactly, it's all about making money, it's trying to put stuff. Weel and in dealing early 1900s, everybody's on their grind.

Exactly. It's all about making money, it's all about capitalism, and it is not about looking out. It's a very much a caveat in Thor. These periods where regulation hasn't caught up with innovation, pop up from time to time. And if you realize that you're in one of them, uh, historically speaking, I really can't express it like emphasizes enough, make sure you take advantage because

people are going to get rich before John Law decides to catch up and start, uh, getting his, you know, his share slice of the pie and making a bunch of laws to keep a little safe. So if you ever find that you're in one of those times, you're in a culture lag type. You're in a culture lag where time and history. Innovation has not yet been outstriped by regulation. Make sure you get them ducats. Get as much as you can get, as much as you can take. Save it, suck it away for a rainy day.

And once John Law comes to fine, you make sure you've moved your entire operation offshore so you can't even get one thing. This is a great reason to study history so that you know when to take advantage of people in the presence of them. A lot of my life. Yeah, exactly. You got to know it. Strike when the iron's vulnerable. I'm really glad that we're helping those people out. So anyway, sorry. I just really jealous. I'd never like got in on one of these gold rushes.

I never really like got in on one of these gold rushes. You just don't have the inside, honey. So in the early 1900s in the US, we start, you know, there are smart people working for the United States government who start worrying that we need to find a way to regulate food quality. Now, what I want to talk about is it's a little removed from the idea of bacteria, you bacteria, germs in our food. And I'm focusing a little more on other things that may have been in your food at the time.

Specifically, there were a lot of preservatives and additives that were tossed in with foods that were sold, that were not studied in any way or evaluated for what they would do to you. They were known to maybe make, for instance, there was a copper sulfate was used to make like peas look greener. Yeah. That's important. Well, they sold better, so you would use that. Borax was used in meat. My wife treated it to... Right. No, no, no, Borax.

Okay, got it. I'm sorry. No, I love borax humor, because it's so timely. Yeah, you can say that. You can say that joke was a great success. Borax. Anyway, borax was used to preserve meat, commonly. And again, like nobody was evaluating this stuff.

Nobody even had to say that they put it in their food they just sold it. Yeah right here. You didn't have stuff America deal with it. It's it's it's weird to kind of think about like we've grown up in a time I vaguely remember before nutritional labels you probably don't do. I don't really know. No I like I vaguely remember. I mean like fast food restaurants they didn't have to have them. Yeah, but I mean, when I got started, it was not, it just wasn't there. And it's, there would be an ingredient list, but you would have the nutritional information.

It's crazy to think there was a time period where it's just like, the box would just say, peace. I don't know. There's a, trust us. It just peace. And this is just, in this is just peanut butter.

Please enjoy it. What else is, I mean, how do you, doesn't matter. It says peanut butter on there. That's what you wanted, wasn't it? It's a nickel. Everything's a nickel. Nobody can single-play it. Everything's gonna get much more expensive eventually, and then you'll get to know what's on it, okay? So, there was a lot of concern at the time about, you know, these kinds of chemicals, and some of them are pesticides and toxins that may be in your food and if it's okay.

So one doctor, one chemist, who is particularly concerned about it was Harvey Washington Wiley, who worked for the US government and this was before the days of the FDA, but would lead to the creation of the FDA. And he said, we need to study this stuff. And here's what he proposed. I want to get together a group of 12 guys. They've got to be vigorous and voracious, were his words.

They all had to take a civil service exam. They needed to be screened for having high moral character. They needed to have reputations for sobriety and reliability. And they have to be willing to pledge for an entire year to eat only what we give them. Okay. And to be studied thoroughly during this. So they would come ahead of time to get like weight and height and blood drawn and urine samples and hair samples.

And then they would be measured and studied basically every day before and after they ate all this food. And what he was going to do is poison them. Great. With increasing amounts of different compounds to see what happened to people. So like Borax was what he started. That actually ended up being what they were most famous for was eating a bunch of borax. I think Dr. Wily was known as Dr. Borax for a while.

But he did it with lots of different compounds. And this group, this group of 12 young men eventually became known as the Poison Squad. So what's great is that men volunteered for this. To get on to the squad? Yes, because they wanted to join the squad. I found one of the letters that was written to Dr. Wiley from a young man asking if he could be considered to join. And this is the letter. This is, I'm quoting to you. Dear sir, I have read in the paper

of your experiments on diet. I have a stomach that can stand anything. I have a stomach that will surprise you. I am a flu. I am a flu. Try my stomach. I want to surprise you. I am afflicted with seven diseases. Never went to a doctor for 15 years. They told me 15 years ago that I could not live eight months.

What do you think of it? My stomach can hold anything. That's so rad. That's like the raddest. Put that to a rap beat. It's a really hard, like really, really tough line. Like it's really, that's putting yourself out there. I have a stomach that will surprise you.

That was actually, that was the first thing that Justin said to me that really peaked my interest. Excuse me, ma'am, I have a stomach that will surprise you. If I had to have a mother of a minute of your time. I do, you tell me more, buy me a drink. So, so Dr. Wiley put together his young tough men. Now, I know I should say about Dr. Wiley because this is.

The invented man again. No, he hates Mega Man. What? Sorry, Dr. Wiley hated Mega Man. Dr. Wiley hates Mega Man. I don't kill him. I don't know anything you're talking about, sure. Okay.

It's the year 20 XX, Sydney. And Dr. Wiley is trying to stop Dr. Lai and Mega Man. Somebody's really enjoying this, I'm sure. It's me. The search is over. I was so surprised. So Dr. Wiley was a smart guy. He worked really hard to improve food safety.

He was a good scientist. One interesting note, he was a terrible showmanist. He thought that women lacked the brain power of men, which is why there weren't a women involved in this. They at one point tried to allow a woman to be one of the cooks. The main cook was Perry, by the way, that's important to remember. That's all that's the only name. I know five Perry. Perry was the main cook, but he claimed that women were too dumb to even be able to poison people correctly, so we couldn't involve any women in the process.

He was also fired by Purdue University. I think for writing a bicycle. That was strictly his fault. I guess I wasn't dignified. The staff of ours will be seen on a half car. That's a horseless half car. The horseless half cars. So an interesting guy. But as I said, he was a good scientist

because he went about this experiment very rigorously. He started with Borax. He fed them various amounts of Borax. And you can find like a published like list of like their Christmas meal and it ends with like how much Borax was in with it. He went, he went from there to sulfuric acid, salt Peter, copper sulfate for maldehyde. He gave higher doses, took all the samples, monitored them. And of course,

they got sick every time. Right. You know, eventually different doses that the men would get sick, and then he would claim that, or then he would, you know, declare this was not something we should be putting in. Food, the media was following this, they went wild, they actually were where the name, the poison squad came from. And even though a lot of these were trying to be suppressed by the food lobby in the US, these studies that he, you know he wrote these papers did leak out. And mainly because of the media, this got out to the public and people started freaking

out and demanding that we do a better job of stopping this. And so from this came the pure food and drug act of 1906, as well as the meat inspection act. Although I should note that part of this this we have to give props to the jungle Yeah, well, there's a lot there's actually part of what although that was not his goal That is part of why there was regulation of the meat industry as well Well in the drug act part of it came from a lot of other sources, too Yes

But the pure food and drug act was initially called the Wiley act So I think we can say okay Dr. Wiley was pretty instrumental. The only reason that actually that name didn't stick is Teddy Roosevelt, who got really involved and championed his cause and took credit for a lot of it. And he was really good at talking and making loud speeches. So he kind of ended up outshining Dr. Wiley. And so it became known as the Pure Food and Drug Act instead of the Wiley Act. But of course, these acts led eventually to the creation of the FDA and food safety guidelines

and Wiley being known as the father of the FDA. Yeah, I mean, you know, you give a lot of hard time to put and bore at in food, but it did get us the FDA and you can't really fault it for that, you know? Did this have a similar amount? I don't even know what to say about that. There is, I don't have it here, I can't sing it off for you, because I don't know the tune, I try to find this.

There is a song called The Poison Squad that they wrote about these 12 men who... Oh, I thought you guys said they wrote about themselves. They were just really tripped on a board at one night and then... And they wrote a song about themselves. No, just really tripped on a board. I don't know. And then they were to talk about themselves. Got the chicken squad. Check this one out. My stomach and hold anything. Hey, that's good. That's a good one. I have a stomach that will surprise you. I've been puke-free since 93. That's 18, 93. That's 18, 93. I knew. I want to say a big thank you to me undies remember it's holiday time get get out in front

of this thing don't get caught by surprise go to me and these dot com slash sub and you get 20% off your first order the most comfortable underwear on the planet. Thanks to maximum fun network for letting us be a part of their extended podcast. Family tickets for Max Funcon are on sale now. That is an annual gathering of delightful human beings that you can take part in. I'm gonna let you know that I got a new podcast with my brothers and the guys who make the show the worst of the of all time. It is an annual eternal podcast called, so Death Thewis Blart, where we watch public art mock up too every year

and release your review of it on American Thanksgiving. So the first episode was just launched. And you can find that on iTunes. Also Campbell Knights is an annual podcast festival that we host here at Hyde to West Virginia. And it is going to be on December 21st, and it is at 8 p.m. and that's going to feature saw bones and also my brother, my brother and me,

to podcasts that for just one price, which I think, like I said, I think it's 20 bucks. But you can go to bit.ly for its slash candle nights two. And you can buy those tickets. We're just about, I think, 50 or 60% sold out. We sold quite a few, so it's, I would not wait on that too long. But now it is time to wrap up. We've been joined at the very end by our special guest

Charlie, you know, McRoy hello Charlie. How was your nap? Thank you for letting mommy and daddy do their broadcast. I really appreciate it. She's just kind of staring at you It gulg But I think that's everything that's the taxpayer's lettuce user some medicines is the intro and outro of our program You can find all their stuff on believe band camp to BANG CAMP to search for the tax payers then buy everything that you legally can. And that is really going to do for us. Seriously this time, we're done. And until next Wednesday, my name is Justin McRoy. I'm Sydney McRoy. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head. Alright! Maximumfund.org

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