Scamfluencers - Abby Lee Miller: Scam Like Nobody's Watching

Episode Date: August 26, 2024

Before she became the most infamous dance teacher in America, Abby Lee Miller ran a struggling dance studio in Pittsburgh. Shortly after declaring bankruptcy, she gets the break of a lifetime: she’s cast as the lead in Dance Moms. She becomes a reality TV star overnight, and even as she leads young dancers to stardom in front of millions of viewers — fighting their moms every step of the way — she schemes to keep her newfound wealth a secret from the courts. And when curtain finally falls on her fraud, Abby insists on an encore.Listen to Scamfluencers on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/scamfluencers/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to scamfluencers early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or Apple podcasts. Sarah, I know you love reality shows the way I love reality shows. Do you ever watch ones that have to do with children or maybe around like mom culture? I do remember there was one that was particularly bleak from like 2016 and it was the Mother Daughter Experiment Celebrity Edition. And that was messed up. Ran for one season, very dark, and yeah, so I like mother daughter stuff.

Right. Well, I ask because today we have a story about one of those women on television who loves to yell at little kids. And, incredibly, that's not even close to being her worst crime. It's early December 2012 in Erie, Pennsylvania, peak holiday season. Judge Thomas Agresti is sitting in front of the TV. He's 62 years old with light brown hair, wire-rimmed glasses, and a mustache. Thomas is a bankruptcy court judge who's been serving Erie County for nearly a decade.

But right now, he's just trying to enjoy his weekend. He's channel surfing when he lands on a show called Abbey's Ultimate Dance Competition. It's a spinoff of the Lifetime reality show Dance Moms. This isn't a show the judge would normally watch, but right now he can't take his eyes off of it. Because the star of the show, Abby Lee Miller, is a debtor in his court, meaning she's supposedly broke. Yet here she is, starring in a reality show named after her. Just two years ago, Abby filed for bankruptcy. She told Judge Thomas that she's been struggling,

and filing for bankruptcy was the only way she could press pause on her dance studios mounting bills. It's been a long and complicated process to get her finances in order, but they're nearing the finish line. In fact, Judge Thomas was going to approve her in some capacity, but it is really funny to be an old man watching TV and being like, wait a second, that's Abby Lee? And you know what, she's more popular than she said. Yes, well, the judge isn't totally in the dark about Abby's reality show fame. He knows that she's been working on Dance Moms,

but she told him she only signed a contract for 24 weeks, and she had no idea if she was gonna be asked back. And she definitely didn't mention that Dance Moms was popular enough to have a spinoff show, one where she is the star. Judge Thomas is already angry, but then the show goes to commercial break, and he sees an ad for season three of Dance Moms.

It's an insane flash dance inspired teaser that ends with Abby leaning back in a chair, winking next to the phrase, the maniac is back. And Sarah, I need you to watch it. Yeah, I mean, this is very much flash dance inspired. And you see the kids getting ready to dance and they're wearing 80s inspired clothes and you see all the moms on the show. But it obviously is also clear Abby is the star, you know, she's the one

it focuses on at the end, she's given the whole wink, it's her show. Yeah, it is her show. And Judge Thomas must feel like he's being punked. Abby's definitely making a profit off of all of these appearances, and she hasn't mentioned any of them to him. The judge realizes that he needs to hold off on approving her bankruptcy application so he can take a closer look at her finances, and he'll soon decide to alert some higher authorities as well. Abby's whole scheme is about to come crashing down, all thanks to how she made her money in the first place.

Reality TV shamelessness. I'm Anish Jainz. And I'm Colin Murray. Reality TV shamelessness. I'm Ellis James. And I'm Colin Murray. And we are the hosts of Everything to Play For. And our next two-parter is all about the great Tanni Gray Thompson, 11 Paralympic goals, six London marathons, now an important cross-bencher in the house of lords.

And what makes this two-parter different than anything we've recorded before, Ellis? Finally, I get to discuss a Welsh athlete. My Henwladvann had iron an oil in me. No, it's that Tanni Grey Thompson is in the studio. Yes, and there's that. All my medals are in a rucksack anyway. They're all kind of wrapped up.

So if you came to a house, you wouldn't see. Rucksack? Yeah, rucksack. You don't want to stick them all out on the wall, do you? I mean, that'd look a bit naff. Follow everything to play for on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge seasons early and ad free right now on Wondry+.

Alice and Matt here from British Scandal. Matt, if we had a bingo card, what would be on there? right now on One Tree Plus. in this green and not always so pleasant land. We've looked at spies, politicians, media magnates, a king, no one is safe. And knowing our country, we won't be out of a job anytime soon. Follow British Scandal wherever you listen to your podcasts. ["Wonderful World"] From Wondery, I'm Saatchi Cole. And I'm Sarah Haggye. And this is Scamfluencers.

In 2011, the Lifetime series Dance Moms made Abby Lee Miller one of the most infamous reality TV stars ever. She was like Simon Cowell on steroids, someone you watch just to see what they're going to say next. Dance Moms was such a hit that thousands of young dancers flocked to Abby's studios with dreams of stardom. But her students were treated to a heavy dose of toxic behavior and relentless verbal abuse.

Audiences ate it up, until Abby crossed someone who wasn't amused by her antics, Uncle Sam. This is Abby Lee Miller, scam like nobody's watching. ["Skam Like Nobody's Watching"] It's 1978, and Abby Lee Miller is 13 years old. She's got long brown hair, green eyes, and round apple cheeks. And right now, she's sitting in a theater in Pittsburgh,

watching a local dance competition. She waits nervously through act after act until finally, it's time for her three girlfriends to take the stage. Abby isn't dancing with them, but she did choreograph the whole thing. So she's excited and nervous as her friends roll out. And yes, I do mean roll, because the routine is on skateboards. Abby has them roll on stage doing handstands. It's jazzy and acrobatic and completely insane. Even though this is her first time choreographing for a competition, Abby already seems to understand

how to grab people's attention. That's probably because she spent her childhood watching her mom teach dance. Abby's mom, Marion, owns multiple dance studios. Her dad, George, runs a railroad yard. and in his spare time, he helps manage the finances of the family's fledgling dance empire. Abby knows that she doesn't want to be a performer. Instead, she wants to have more creative control, to choreograph routines, and maybe even run

her own studio one day. She's off to a promising start. Her skateboard routine wins first place. This is a huge moment for Abby. And here's what she says about it years later in a tell-all episode of Dance Moms. And I knew the moment I had that plastic 14-inch trophy in my hand, what I was put on this earth to do.

You know, I get that people figure out their passions very early in life, but anyone who speaks that way to me is like kind of a psychopath. You get this trophy and you're like, need this forever by any means necessary. That's weird. It's a weird thing to think when you're a child. Yes, I think it's weird. But Abby's win has her feeling bold.

So at only 14 years old, she asks to start a dance company within one of Marion's weird. But Abby's win has her feeling bold. So at only 14 years old, she asks to start a dance company within one of Marion's studios. And her mom says yes. So Abby holds auditions for dancers between the ages of seven and 12, and officially forms the Abby Lee Dance Company. In the very first dance competition they enter,

they win first place. Abby has a gift, and her career is taking off before she even graduates high school. For the next six years, Abby focuses on growing her dance company. But in 1987, when Abby is 22, her mom gets sick and is unable to run her business. Abby can't stand the idea of her mom losing her studio,

so she steps in and runs it herself. The dance company isn't doing great financially when Abby becomes the new boss. But her dad happens to be friendly with the president of a bank, so he helps her get a loan. In 1995, she renovates the studio and launches the Abby Lee Dance Company as its premiere team. But Abby never learns how to actually run the business. She doesn't look at the books, and she doesn't pay attention to her tax bills. She trusts her dad to manage it all. But then, in 2000, when Abby is 35 years old,

her dad dies suddenly from brain cancer. Abby is grief-stricken, but she's also in shock. Suddenly, the entire burden of the business falls to her. And when Abby finally sees the books, she's completely overwhelmed. The business has a ton of overhead. And when Abby finally sees the books, she's completely overwhelmed. The business has a ton of overhead. And although Abby's classes are full, it seems that she isn't charging enough. And then, in 2008, the financial crisis hits. People cut out non-essentials like dance classes, and enrollment at her studio plummets. So Abby puts off paying mortgage bills and property taxes, which creates a mountain of debt that keeps growing. Before long, Abby owes more than $350,000. I mean, that is pretty crappy. But also, it's hard to imagine running a business without

ever really looking at the financials, even if you trust the person running it, you know? I'm just kind of like, how do you do that? Well, it's just bad business. Then one day in 2010, Abby walks up to her studio and finds a note from the sheriff's office taped to her door. It's a sales notice. The studio is about to be sold out from under her and she has no way to pay the bank what she owes them.

So at 45 years old, Abby files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Chapter 11 helps people create a plan to repay creditors while still keeping their business open. It's a really tedious process that can take years, but it seems like this is her only option. But soon Abby will find another way to bail herself out of her financial troubles. All she has to do is step out somewhere she never thought she'd be, center stage.

Around the time Abby is preparing to file for bankruptcy, Brian Stinson has just finished producing a reality show about teenage socialites for the CW network. Brian is a middle-aged TV producer with a chiseled frame, blue eyes, and short hair. And he is on the hunt for his next project. He's had a VHS tape sitting on his desk for the last couple of years. It's from his friend John, a professional dancer and choreographer, and it features talented young girls competing in dance competitions. John is convinced that these competitions can be made into a TV show.

Brian's intrigued, but he hasn't been able to crack what the show would be until today. He watches the tape again with John, who fills him in with gossip about the mom standing in the background. And Brian gets an idea. He wants to produce a documentary series, a behind-the-scenes look at the lives

of competitive dancers and their moms. He starts seeking out dancers from across the country, but One Studio really stands out, the Abby Lee Dance Company. When Brian sees these particular kids and their moms, the wheels in his head start turning. Here's Brian talking about it years later on the Leave It on the Dance Floor podcast. I was like, I really like these moms. So that's what I called John and I said, I think we can do a whole show at this one studio in Pittsburgh. I feel like this is so brilliant and so evil

and that there should be like a special type of Emmy for coming up with the most evil, but also watchable reality TV idea. Yeah. Well, Brian pitches his idea to the production company and they green light it as a six part series called Just Dance. In spring 2011, Brian flies to Pittsburgh to begin filming.

He's chosen six young dancers to feature on a show, along with their moms. And one of these moms is Kelly. She's 40 and has bright blue eyes and that classic pixie with bangs hairdo from the late 2000s. Kelly was a member of Abby's Dance Company decades before, starting when she was around eight years old. And now, her two daughters, 10-year-old Paige and 13-year-old Brooke, will appear in the series. Initially, Abby is supposed to play a small part on the show. But that all changes once the cameras start rolling.

Bryant is riveted by Abby's teaching style. How she hovers over the dancers, filling the room. She's like no one he's ever seen before. And it all crystallizes when Abby gets into a massive fight with one of the moms. The mom, who also happens to be a minister, is pissed that Abby just kicked her kid out of class. She starts yelling at Abby, and so Abby calls the police. When the police ask if the woman has a weapon,

Abby says, Just her mouth. I mean, come on, best to ever do it. It's perfect television. I can't even fight it. But Ryan doesn't realize how much Abby needs this show. He doesn't even consider that she might be amplifying the drama out of desperation. He just knows that she's made for reality TV.

And his decision to put her in the spotlight changes Abby's life forever. It's only been four months since Abby declared bankruptcy. And while most people in our situation would be struggling, Abby is now the lead on a TV series. She'll make around $8,500 a month, but she'll also be expected to turn most of that over to the court to pay back her creditors.

The timing is terrible. If only she could have gotten the TV show But she'll also be expected to turn most of that over to the court to pay back her creditors. The timing is terrible. If only she could have gotten the TV show before she filed for bankruptcy. So she decides to take a risk and hide some of her new income. Abby's looking out for number one. But that decision will end up costing her more than she could ever imagine. The pilot episode of Dance Moms debuts on Lifetime in July 2011, just seven months into Abby's bankruptcy filing.

She's introduced to the world as the tyrant ruler of her dance empire, an empire that includes six young dancers sitting cross-legged in the middle of her studio floor. One of the girls is eight-year-old Maddie Ziegler. Maddie has long brown hair, pulled up into a tight ponytail, larger than life blue eyes, and two buck teeth that make her look that much more adorable. Maddie looks up at the dance teacher looming above her.

Abby's in front of a chalkboard, and she tells the girls that they're here because they are the cream of the crop in the eight to 12 age group. But that doesn't make them equals. Abby swivels the chalkboard around, revealing headshots of all the girls taped in the shape of a pyramid.

She's ranked her dancers, and Maddie's picture is at the very top. By Abby's high standards, Maddie is the best of them all. If you haven't seen Dance Moms, this triangle with Maddie's picture on top is Abby's infamous pyramid. Abby publicly ranks her dancers at the start of each episode. The rankings change from week to week depending on how well each girl does

in the previous week's competition. And on how Abby feels about their moms. If a mom somehow pisses her off, their child gets a lower place on the pyramid. What is so crazy about this is like these are real children and their moms and it's like sowing these seeds of discord between them that will last a lifetime. It's so evil. It is. Well, Abby teaches the girls new routines for countless competitions they attend throughout

the season. And as a teacher, she is a total nightmare. She's harsh and abrasive. She yells at the girls and calls it tough love. I want to be Vince Lombardi and I want to pump y'all up and tell you you're going to go out there and win, but sometimes your best isn't good enough anymore. Ding dong! Look! Throw up!

She's going to go, she's going to do the solo, it's going to be good, and we're all going to have fun. Yeah, I'm familiar with a lot of these clips and the things she says just from, like, them going viral a decade later. It's crazy to imagine talking to a child this way. Yeah, and she did, a lot. Dance Poms also becomes known for the teeny tiny outfits the dancers wear to perform,

and the moms are not thrilled about that. Here's how two of the moms try to bring this concern up to Abby. I think it's too sexy. I absolutely think it's too sexy. You know what, can we not use the word sexy? Can we just say skimpy? They look like prostitutes. If you don't like what I'm doing, go open your own studio. Go open your own studio. Yeah, that is another very alarming element to this world. And I mean, it's not all Abby Lee. It seems like it is kind of a standard in the world of young girls dancing.

But obviously her response is like, well, this is how I'm doing it, so you leave. Yeah, not a great response. And of course, no toxic personality is complete without a little racism sprinkled in. There's only one black dancer in the group of six, Nia. She's nine with long brown hair and a smile that lights up the room. But she never seems to win Abby's favor.

She's constantly on the bottom of the pyramid and rarely given solos. When she finally does get one, it's for a song called They Call Me Laqueefa. And her costume? Well, Abby makes Nia wear an afro wig and animal print. Her mom, Holly, has some questions.

Does her daughter really need to be in this outfit? Why is it that Nia is an animal print while the other girls dance solos wearing beautiful sequined costumes? But Abby shuts her down. She says she's doing all of this for Nia's benefit. She's teaching her ethnic dances so that when auditions come her way, Nia will be ready.

It's crazy because we all know what she means by ethnic dancing. I really can't wrap my head around her saying this is remotely needed for quote unquote ethnic auditions. Yeah, that's a really loud dog whistle, isn't it? Abby's behavior is uncomfortably wrong for many reasons, but the girls are genuinely talented and viewers love the combination of dancing and drama. Dance Moms quickly becomes a hit.

In its first season, it averages more than one and a half million viewers every week. When the season finale airs, the producers ask Abby to return for season two, and she happily accepts. Abby is a reality star in every sense of the word, but the more massive the star, the more spectacular the burnout.

When the second season of Dance Moms airs in early 2012, some episodes pull in over two million viewers. Abby's going beyond her 15 minutes of fame and becoming a bona fide celebrity. People can't seem to get enough of her unhinged behavior. In one episode from the second season, the girls are preparing for a competition that's two days away.

And Kelly, the mom who goes way back with Abby, is upstairs frantically coloring a chair with black marker. The chair is part of her daughter Paige's dance solo, and Kelly was supposed to bring it home last night to paint it black, but she completely forgot. Kelly is sweating. She knows Abby's gonna be pissed. Here's a clip of what happens next.

This is important, Kelly. Do something! Done! That bang? That's Abby throwing the chair to the ground next to Paige. Kelly is livid and Paige starts to cry. Abby's been verbally abusive on the show before, but this is a disturbing escalation.

It does seem crazy listening to this, like, how could people still watch this show when Abby Lee's such a monster? But like, that's why people watch shows like Dance Moms, and it was a lot more prevalent ten years ago than it was now, but like, as long as someone wasn't doing anything illegal or like, cancelable, it was pretty fun to watch someone wild out like that.

Yeah. Kelly may be furious with Abby, but the viewers are not. Lifetime renews Dance Moms for a third season, and they don't stop there. Abby's ratings appeal is undeniable. So Lifetime creates a spinoff show, Abby's Ultimate Dance Competition. Her contract for this new show pays up to $25,000 an episode. And on top of that, Abby's now selling merch online and offering in-person

classes all over the country, where she pulls in up to 20 grand per class. Her bankruptcy case is still ongoing throughout all of this. Abby is supposed to be completely transparent about her income to the court, reporting everything that comes in and goes out. But she's decided to tell a few little lies instead. She tells the bankruptcy court that she's only making around nine grand a month. And since the court isn't even aware of Abby's spinoff show, they don't question her numbers. They're on the verge of approving a repayment plan until that one weekend afternoon when Judge Thomas Agresti sits down to watch TV and discovers Abby's ultimate dance competition.

If it wasn't for this coincidence, it's possible Abby's lies would have continued to fly under the government's radar. But instead, Judge Thomas sees her in all of her reality star glory, and he immediately calls for a hearing to get some answers. So in February 2013, Abby finds herself sitting in Judge Thomas' courtroom. He asks her for proof of assets. And guess what, Sarah? All of a sudden, she comes clean and owns up to having almost $300,000 in her bank account that she claims she forgot to disclose.

Naturally, this doesn't go over well with the judge. He decides to involve the US trustee's office, a government watchdog agency that protects against bankruptcy fraud. Abbie's so-called epiphany has set him on the war path, and it'll end up bringing Abbie to her knees, literally. I'm Raza Jaffrey and in the latest season of The Spy Who we open the file on Willie Carlin, the spy who sold peace to the IRA. When Carlin quit the British army to return to Northern Ireland during the Troubles, he received an unusual job offer to spy on his own community.

He would quickly find himself deep within the Irish Republican movement, having to choose between preserving his cover or his conscience. For 30 years, paramilitary groups from both sides murdered, maimed and bombed, while British intelligence waged a dirty war in the shadows. Hey podcast listeners, have you heard you can listen to your favorite podcasts ad free? That's good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad free top podcasts included with your Prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to amazon.com slash ad

free podcasts. That's amazon.com slash ad free podcasts to That's amazon.com slash ad free podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. I feel like I like to In March, 2013, just one month since Abby last visited Judge Thomas's courtroom, she and her lawyer are back again. And this time, the judge is laying down the law.

Sarah, can you read what he says in court that day? Yeah, he says, Only because of a coincidence do I find out that your gal is now this big, successful reality TV lady doing all this stuff. The problem is, she wasn't going to make it right until she got caught. Yeah, I mean, obviously she wasn't going to make it right until she got caught. Yeah, I mean, obviously she wasn't gonna make it right until she got caught. She thought this guy was an idiot.

Yeah, the judge cannot hide his anger. He says Abby is manipulating the bankruptcy system and abusing his good faith. After this hearing, it's clear that the court is looking at Abby's income with a microscope, but she must feel invincible because she continues to defy the judge by finding more ways to hide her money. She even tells the producers of Dance Moms

to funnel some of her salary into an account under her mom's name. During production, Abby starts sending emails to the producers, her accountant, and a business partner that include lines like, don't put cash in the bank. That's all in caps and with three exclamation marks, And let's make money and keep me out of jail. Over the next few months, she writes things like,

I do not want to get paid these big sums until the bankruptcy is over. And she plays coy with her business partner, emailing, what bank account? Judge should know about this. I absolutely love someone who creates their own set of rules where she's just kind of like, okay, so until it's over, don't pay me. And it's like, no, you still made that money, Abby. Well, these big sums are thanks to the continued success of Dance Moms and its spin offs,

much of which sits on Abby's shoulders. And the stress of it all seems to be getting to her too. She threatens not to show up to film. and when she does, she's emotional, often late and checked out. The producers put up with her because the show's ratings are at an all-time high. Season 3 premiered to almost 3 million viewers. But now, her attitude is starting to piss them off. Sarah, can you read an email that one producer writes to Abby?

Yeah, it says, Abby, you will have a call time tomorrow. If you do not show up for work, we can and will fine you. We will explain to your bankruptcy attorney or any judge that you are not living up to your contractual obligations. Does he or the judge even know about your masterclass monies and cash? I advise you to show up for work and do your job properly

and stop sabotaging the show that actually allows you to make a living. She knows they need her so badly that she can do whatever she wants. Well, it seems that way, but Abby's attitude isn't sitting well with the moms either, who are getting sick of her shit. The moms say the producers actually soften her for the show and insinuate that they could never air what she's really like off-camera About eight months after the judge tells her to shape up Abbie travels to an auditorium in the Bronx to film the fourth season

of Dance Moms The girls are in a green room getting ready to go on stage Tensions are high especially between Kelly and Abbie Earlier in the day Abbie said that Kelly's older daughter, Brooke, wasn't performing well, and she added that, quote, her mom's a bitch. That's when Abby tells the girls that she's looking to create a new junior elite team,

one that will compete against the team of girls that she's been working with and that we've been watching for years. She literally says, I will be forming another team to challenge you. She's like the jigsaw of reality TV. Like she's creating these wild traps She literally says, I will be forming another team to challenge you. She's like the jigsaw of reality TV. Like she's creating these wild traps for these children and their families.

And it's like, again, a little genius. Well, Kelly is beside herself. Between the torture she endured while dancing for Abby herself and the pain in both of her daughters' eyes, it seems like she's had enough. So as the team puts on their costumes and touches up their makeup, Kelly threatens to pull her kids out of the competition, and out of Abby's company altogether. Sarah, can you watch this clip of what happens next?

Did you just sit here and say that my daughter looks miserable, so maybe we should put Kalani in her place? No, I never said that. Yes, you most certainly did. No, I didn't, dingbat. Listen! I said, Brooke, is your mother's finger for you? Get your finger out of my face! Girls, out the room!

Yeah, you would eat me. You would eat me! You know, I don't know what they're saying to each other as they're screwing, because it's like a lot of crosstalk. But at one point, Abby stands up, she and Kelly are in each other's faces, and Kelly's pointing a finger at Abby. Abby's doing like a weird bite thing,

like, I'm gonna bite your finger. Then there's like a weak slap from Kelly, hair pulling. Meanwhile, all these children are dolled up and just sitting down watching this all happen. This is so nuts. Yeah, having watched a lot of Dance Moms, this was a really pivotal moment. It's a full breakdown of their decades-long relationship,

but it's also, like, been brewing for years. And even though this fight seems kind of predictable, it's so bad that it ends with Abby once again calling the police on a mom. She says coldly that this is her business and that everyone is replaceable. But Kelly is forever changed. This day will turn out to be the last time

her daughters ever dance. And she'll later say that there hasn't been a day since that, that she hasn't regretted this confrontation. But Abby seems to take it all in stride. She's not worried about losing the show. She is the show. And on January 1st, 2014, season four of Dance Moms airs. For a while, it really seems like Abby Lee Miller can't be stopped.

But then she's dealt a terrible blow. In February 2014, her mom, Marion, dies after a long battle with colon cancer. Abby's mother was her very first dance teacher and her biggest fan. Without her mom, she's raw and broken. And she shares all of this on a truly emotional episode of Dance Moms, where in a rare moment of vulnerability, Abby cries with the girls and they dedicate their dance numbers to Marion. But that sentimental feeling doesn't last very long. Five days after Marion's death, former dance mom Kelly files a lawsuit alleging mistreatment on the show, breach of contract, lack of payment, and emotional distress. And it's likely that this is also around the time that the FBI starts digging into

Abby's bankruptcy case. For months, the U.S. trustee's office has been monitoring her activity. And now, the FBI is reaching out to people who work at her studio, as well as her bookkeeper. Not only is it embarrassing, people who work at her studio, as well as her bookkeeper. Not only is it embarrassing, it's disruptive to her business. But the show continues to pull in millions of viewers. And whether it's interviews on The View, or the actress Christina Ricci gushing that Dance Moms

is, quote, the greatest reality show of all time, it seems like Abby and the series are everywhere. Even pop singer Sia takes notice. Sarah, tell me how much you remember about the music video for Chandelier. It was so big. That song, the video, everything was so huge. Like, Maddie's this very small child doing these crazy dance moves. Her face is so expressive.

Like, there was so much physicality. The song was so powerful. Like, it was a true moment. It got par song was so powerful, like it was a true moment. It got parodied everywhere. Yeah, it was a big deal. And after it debuts in May 2014, Chandelier quickly becomes one of the most viewed videos on YouTube of all time. It's even nominated for a Grammy Award for Best Music Video.

And just a few months later, Abby makes her boldest move yet. Dance Moms is finishing up a tour in Australia. And over the course of the trip, Abby hosted classes and dozens of meet and greet sessions all over the country. And of course, she sold a ton of merch. All told, she brought in one hundred and twenty thousand dollars, and she demands to get paid in cash.

She wants to keep all of it without getting taxed or alerting the bankruptcy court. So just before flying home, Abby texts some of her employees. We have all this for in cash. Need a little money laundering. Shut up. She straight up says that. Oh, my God. She's so stupid. Yeah. Well, in case you don't know, when you go through customs, you have to declare any cash amount over $10,000. So to get around this, she allegedly gets her dancers, their moms, and some of her employees

to help transport the cash back to the U.S. They divide it into $10,000 increments, stuff it into plastic bags, and they pack it in their luggage. Abby arrives back home, and for a while, it's business as usual. She films the fifth season of Dance Moms, and in the spring of 2015, she opens up a new branch of her studio in Los Angeles.

But the ratings are starting to falter. The controversy over her legal issues is brewing. And to make matters worse, some of her favorite dancers have left her studio and the show. Even the ones that stay seem to be planning their exit, including Maddie. Through all of this, the FBI has been watching her, and they've finally built their case to hand over to the Justice Department.

In October 2015, after a multi-year investigation, the DOJ files an indictment. Abby's charged with 20 counts, including bankruptcy fraud and concealing income. The prosecution alleges that she hid nearly $800,000 earned from Dance Moms, its spin-offs, and merchandise sales. The next month, Abby pleads not guilty. She requests extensions to delay the trial a few months, and the court grants them.

And Abby uses that extra time to make her case on camera and try to get some sympathy. Here's a clip from an episode of Dance Moms that was filmed around this time. that extra time to make her case on camera and try to get some sympathy. Here's a clip from an episode of Dance Moms that was filmed around this time. I am hysterical. There's nothing more I can do. I don't have a bra on. My hair is in rollers. I'm in my slippers.

And I have a huge legal issue going on. I don't know why not having a bra on, her hair being in rollers, and being in slippers has to do with, like, all this shit she's going through. But it's a great detail. And also, it is funny to think that she is trying to gain sympathy in some way by being like, I'm such a mess. Everything's going so badly.

And, you know, you've been so evil, even if this wasn't your fault and no one's rooting for you, Abby. Yeah, it's pretty bad. But about six months later, in June 2016, the U.S. Attorney's Office adds to her rap sheet. They tack on charges for smuggling the money she made in Australia into the U.S. The charges are piling up, and Abby realizes that she can't keep avoiding the consequences. So she pleads guilty to one count of concealing bankruptcy assets

and one count of bringing unreported money into the country. Abby's world is crumbling around her. At this point, she's going to have to accept whatever punishments come her way. And with the possibility of five years in jail and over $5 million in fines, she might have to trade her tutu for an orange jumpsuit. and fines, she might have to trade her tutu for an orange jumpsuit. On May 9, 2017, more than a year and a half since she was first indicted, Abby stands in a Pittsburgh courtroom in front of Chief Judge Joy Flowers Conti. Judge Joy has platinum blonde hair pulled into a no-nonsense bun.

She's got kind eyes and rosy cheeks, but don't let that pleasant demeanor fool you. She's tough. Before Judge Joyce sentences her, she gives Abby a chance to speak. And unsurprisingly, what she chooses to say is wild. Sarah, would you please read part of her statement for me? Yes. I need to like calm myself,

because I know it's going to be so funny. Yeah, take a breath. She says, Your Honor, I certainly am ashamed. Ashamed to be meeting you the first time in this matter. I wish you could take my class or come to one of my events and see how much I love what I do firsthand. I really want to go to lunch with you right...

Ha ha! Go to lunch with the judge? I really want to go to lunch with you right after this and answer every one of these questions and take you right through it from day one. Abby, you are in court. You can't just be like, listen, you would love me outside of this.

I would take you to lunch. I'd explain everything. Like, let's just figure it out outside of here. She does not live on this planet. She's not of this world. Well, as you might expect, this does not sway the judge, who ultimately sentences Abby to one year and one day in prison. She's also ordered to pay a total of $160,000 in fines for money laundering. And after she serves her time, she'll have two years of supervised release.

It's a relatively light sentence, considering what she was up against. But when Abby hears all of this, her knees buckle. She later says that she thought she was gonna hit the floor. Abby received support from some former students and moms in court, but not from her Dance Moms crew. In fact, some of the moms, including Kelly, and the minister who Abby called the police on in the very first episode of Dance Moms,

post a picture of themselves cheersing with glasses of Dom Perignon. Sarah, can you describe this post? Yeah, you know, Kelly posts it and it's her and four women. It looks like mom's night out, like they're super happy to be at this bar or whatever. And the caption says, "'Who was the happiest?' And you know what? They all look so happy. I can't tell."

Well, if the moms thought that this was the last they'd hear from Abby, they should have known better. She's never been one to stay quiet. And now she's gonna find an even bigger stage to tell her side of the story. It's July, 2017, and Abby has to report to prison in less than two weeks. She's spending one of her last three days sitting down

with Jedidiah Bela. Jedidiah is 38 years old with long wavy brown hair and trusting eyes. She looks serious enough to be a host on daytime TV, but blandly pretty enough to do it for Fox and Friends. Jedidiah is interviewing Abby for a special episode of Dance Moms, titled Abby Tells All. The women sit in chairs across from each other in an intimate hotel suite with thick gold curtains and a crackling fire in the background. The interview is candid and emotional. Jedidiah asks Abby about her fractured relationships with some of her dancers, including Maddie, who's quietly but publicly distanced herself from her former teacher.

Here's Abby and Jedidiah. I don't know. There's never been a falling out. You're not sad. Sad? No. Disappointed? Absolutely. Because that's not the kid I raised. I don't think, had she not been in my studio, she would be where she is today. And I can confidently say that.

I feel like maybe Abby was more lucky that Maddie was on the show than Maddie was lucky to be on the show because it did legitimize a lifetime reality show in a way. Like, look, this young girl is now in this crazy music video and has this huge career, you know? Yeah, it feels a little myopic as an assessment. Abby doesn't seem to want to take her responsibility for her part in these broken relationships

or for her crimes. Instead, she says that her biggest mistake was trusting other people with her money. Abby stays busy in her final two weeks as a free woman. She hosts classes and her annual dance recital, anything to distract from what's ahead. With Abby's jail time fast approaching, new celebrity choreographers are set to take her place on Dance Moms. And it seems like Abby is about to learn the lesson she's drilled into her girls for years. Everyone, including her, is replaceable. July 6, 1988, and workers are settling into the night shift aboard Piper Alpha, the world's

largest offshore oil rig. Home to 226 men, the rig is stationed in the stormy North Sea off the coast of Scotland. At around 10pm, workers accidentally trigger a gas leak that leads to an explosion and a fire. As they wait to be rescued, the workers soon realize that Piper Alpha has transformed into a death trap. Follow Against the Odds wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen ad-free on Amazon Music or the Wondery app. I feel like a legend And I feel like I let you On July 12th, 2017, Abby's driver pulls up to the drab, gray Victorville Federal Correctional Institution, about two hours northeast of her studio in Los Angeles. Abby has been crying and taking last minute phone calls from her friends the whole drive. And the camera crew is capturing her every move,

right up until they arrive at the prison. Then the cameras finally go dark. But don't worry. Once she's inside, Abby is somehow able to keep her Twitter and Instagram accounts up and running. And just like most people on social media, she's all smiles. In one post, she's wearing her blue prison uniform while sitting around a table with five visitors.

Sarah, can you take a look at this picture and read the caption? Okay, first of all, looking at this photo, I would not think she's in prison. No, it looks like she's at a mess hall. She's literally wearing makeup. She is beaming. Everyone's kind of smiling around a round table.

One of the children is sitting on her lap. And she says, sometimes in life you make mistakes. I trusted the wrong people and my world flipped upside down when I had to enter prison. I did so with grace. The stories you read about me being a princess are untrue. And I am a better person for this experience.

Oh, once again, it's everyone's fault that Abby's, ugh, she trusted the wrong—you know what, you know her problem is she's just too trusting. Yeah, she's never done anything wrong in her life. Abby ends up spending about eight months in prison before being released to a halfway house in March 2018. But about a month later, she's rushed to the emergency room with excruciating neck pain and weakness in her arm. And it turns out that she needs emergency surgery

for a life-threatening spinal infection. Abby survives the surgery, but her illness leaves her paralyzed from the waist down. She can no longer walk and returns from the hospital in a wheelchair. And then her doctors hit her with another blow. They diagnosed her with Burkitt lymphoma, an aggressive type of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. But even as she goes through several rounds of chemotherapy and adjusts to life after

prison, Abby is ready to get back in the spotlight. Just months after her cancer diagnosis, she's back at work on Dance Moms Season 8, this time from a wheelchair while she learns to walk again. And a little more than a year after her emergency surgery, Abby is declared cancer-free. You might think that prison and a medical crisis would lead to growth and personal exploration, but that isn't Abby's style.

In June 2019, Lifetime debuts Dance Moms, Resurrection. It tracks Abby's recovery and return to teaching. Sarah, can you read some of what she says in the trailer? Yeah, she says, in an instant, your life changes completely. I was ready to go back to work and start my life over, and now I can't even walk. She also says, I need to get back to teaching, and I need to get back to screaming at children. I need to get back to my roots.

You know what? That's kind of what we all need. We just need to get back to screaming at children. I need to get back to my roots. You know what? That's kind of like what we all need. We just need to get back to basics. Like what fuels us? And for Abby, it's screaming at children. She knows herself. A few months later, Abby takes her first public steps post-surgery on the daytime TV show, The Doctors. And in May 2020, she announces that she's done with dance moms for good.

She keeps teaching in LA and around the world. But two years later, in late 2022, she sells the original Abby Lee Dance Studio in Pittsburgh. It's now being used as a daycare center. Around that time, in an interview with Entertainment Tonight, Abby slams previous cast members for not visiting or even sending letters to her while she was in prison. And then she goes further.

All the kids, all the moms act as if I had nothing to do with the show nor my studio. And the kids block it out and they forget and oh, it was toxic, blah, blah, blah. Well, let's go back to Pittsburgh. I'll show you the house she used to live in and then we'll go see the house she live in now. Well, if this is the new leaf Abby says she's turning over,

it seems a lot like the old one. But after all this time, the girls are now finally ready to share their side of the story. In May 2024, about six years after Abby gets out of prison, Lifetime airs a two-hour special called Dance Moms, The Reunion. In it, 22-year-old Chloe Lukasiak sits on a bar stool wearing a neon orange bodycon dress.

Sitting beside her are five of her Dance Bombs co-stars, including Jojo Siwa. They're all ready to come clean about what it was really like to dance for Abby and appear on the show. Maddie, Abby star dancer, has notably chosen not to attend. The camera zooms in on Chloe. She's clearly nervous and not entirely sure if she wants to open herself up to the past.

The past that, she admits, was filled with pain. I thought it wasn't enough, like in every single way. And it wasn't until about a year ago that I realized the way I felt about myself were her words still lingering with me. But all these years later, Chloe is sitting tall. She doesn't want Abby to have the final word in her story. And the other girls chime in.

They all admit that dance moms changed their lives, but they aren't sure if it was for the better. Chloe says she is who she is today, quote, in spite of Abby, not because of her. But some of the other girls are more forgiving. Jojo, who joined the show in the later seasons, says Abby was tough, but also credits her for jumpstarting her career. And I think we've all seen where her career has gone since this interview. Abby may not have been at this reunion, but she still has plenty to say about it.

Just days after it airs, she goes on Real Housewife Bethany Frankel's podcast and claims that the reason she wasn't asked to participate was because the girls can't face her. She insists that none of them would be where they are today without her and the show. Abby also talks about the reunion on her own podcast, but if you wanna listen, you're

going to have to pony up and subscribe to her Patreon. Today, Abby is still trying to hold on to the spotlight. Her Instagram has over 4.6 million followers and she has a YouTube channel and podcast where she talks about, well, dance moms. She's also teaching regular Zoom classes as well as dance workshops. And of course, you can always buy her merch. But Abby's not totally incapable of paying it forward. She sent fellow Lifetime reality star Todd Chrisley a DM to offer some advice

after he was sentenced to prison. She told him, be careful. Well, Sarah, you know, we came into this with an unfortunately sturdy understanding of Dance Moms. Where do you rank our friend Abby Lee in the grand pantheon of reality television scammers? Pretty low, only because her scam that she went to prison for wasn't the craziest thing in the world. It wasn't like fraud that was necessarily directly targeting people the way like Jen Shaw did, or you know,

the way the Chrisleys kind of roped in a lot of people into their scheme. I will say she's maybe one of the dumber ones. Like, she could have found a way to launder her money and not been caught this way. Do you think Abby was fully aware of her financial crimes when she started, or do you think she was just like, young, didn't know how to run a dance studio, thought that this was like, kind of the way you did it, and then just got stuck? That's a really good question, because I don't think

Abby is the same as everyone else. I think she really, more than anyone we've covered, truly lives in her own universe, where she knew that maybe she was doing something a little bit wrong. But maybe she thought it was like the white lies people tell when going through customs or whatever. Like, I don't think she ever thought she could face a consequence for anything she's ever done. Has it changed your mind about how wretched this show actually was knowing how impacted the girls were? I think everyone who watches it, like, knows it's like a morally bad show.

In fact, one of my friends who's seen all of it, I was like, should I watch Dance Moms? I'm really depressed. And she was like, no, don't do it. It's gonna make you feel bad. It's not good. Like, I'm grandfathered in from being an OG. Like, this isn't for you now.

Yeah, I would never suggest this show to anybody. I do think it's brain rot. I think any reality show featuring children is usually pretty unethical. And I have seen almost every episode. So here we are. Yeah, so a lot of people know about Dance Moms because it keeps getting memed.

Like, stuff JoJo Siwa was saying when she was eight is now, like, unintentionally funny. There's one particular meme of Abby. She's getting yelled at by another meme of Abby, she's getting yelled at by another dance studio owner and she's in her wheelchair and she backs up all the way out of the arena. I've watched that a hundred times. It's very funny.

It is art. I guess I'm trying to square away like how funny Abby is to how monstrous she is. Like can we actually laugh at her or is she beyond the pale? SHANNON I feel like the show has gotten a resurgence of interest because the clips are so outrageous. Like, there's also this one that always goes viral where, you know, a bunch of girls are trying out for something on a stage and she goes,

"'You with the ugly haircut, come forward.'" And you see this girl come forward. And her haircut is really crazy. I think, much like these terrible people that we can't stop watching, like, she is genuinely very funny. Like, she has really good comedic timing. She's on in this way that is really sick. And I don't think it's crazy to separate the art from the artist. She is the art. The medium is the message.

Show me someone on reality TV that is good. I guess the lesson is, if your favorite reality star hasn't committed something egregious to get on this show, they just haven't been around long enough. Yeah, it's like, you have to be doing something crazy to be on reality TV. You have to be a psychopath and do psychotic things. And that's why we love them.

I love TV, Sarah. I love TV so much. If you like Scamplincerz, you can listen to every episode early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey. This is Abby Lee Miller, scam like no one's watching. I'm Saatchi Cole. And I'm Sarah Haggye.

If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at scamfluencersatwondery.com. We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were Everything I Learned About Life I Learned in Dance Class by Abby Lee Miller and Torsten Ove's reporting for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

Alison Weintraub wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Saatchi Cole and Sarah Hagge. Olivia Breylee and Eric Thurman are our story editors. Fact-checking by Sarah Baum. Sound design by Sam Ada. Additional audio assistance provided by Adrian Tapia. Our music supervisor Iskof Velasquez for Freeze On Sync. Our managing producers are Desi Blaylock and Matt Gant. Jeanine Cornelow and Stephanie Jens are our development producers. Our associate producers are Charlotte Miller and Lexi Perry. Our producers are John Reed, Yasmin Ward and Kate Young. Our senior producers are Sarah Enney and Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marsha Louie and Aaron O'Flaherty

for Wondry. where we'll be whisked away on immersive adventures all around the world. Where we go, what we do, what we eat, drink and listen to will all be up to my very special guests. We've got Ben Schwartz taking us on a whirlwind trip around Disneyland. We'll eat a bowl of life-changing pasta with Jimmy O'Yang in Tuscany, Italy. And how do you feel about a spot of sugaring off with Emily Hampshire in Montreal? And Away We Go will immerse you in some of the wonders of the world. We're going to be seeing some yellows and vibrant oranges. And the shoes clicking against the cobblestone.

If you're looking to get somebody in the mood, have them look at the Chicago skyline. You can listen to And Away We Go exclusively with Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I'm not sure.