Scamfluencers - The Great British Post Office Scandal

Episode Date: July 22, 2024

In the late 90s, the UK Post Office rolls out a new computer accounting system they know is full of glitches. Then, it spends two decades covering up its mistake. When small, mom-and-pop shop owners report errors, the Post Office blames them and forces them to cover any losses… or face prosecution, or jail. But a relentless, rag-tag team of owners and journalists team up to fight the powers that be, and inspire a TV producer to expose the greatest government scam in UK history.Listen to Scamfluencers on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/scamfluencers/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to scamfluencers early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or Apple podcasts. A heads up to our listeners, this episode includes references to suicide. Please listen with care. Sachi, have you ever had a really important package stolen or lost in the mail? Yeah, actually. In February, it was my birthday the same week as Lunar New Year, and my mom sent me a birthday card and it was in a red envelope, and somebody broke into my building and went through all

of my mail and that was the only thing they took because I think they thought there was money in it. I was so sad. That is insane. I know. They left like actual high value packages and they just took my mommy's birthday card. Well, I know when we think of post offices,

our biggest gripe is how packages can get lost or stolen. But for decades, the UK post office had a rare distinction. It was responsible for one of the most embarrassing incidents in the history of the British government, which, as you know, means it's very embarrassing. It's November 2010, and Seema Misra is in a courtroom in Guildford, a town about an hour southwest of London.

Seema is in her mid-30s and newly pregnant with shoulder-length brown hair and a broad smile. about an hour southwest of London. Seema is in her mid-30s and newly pregnant with shoulder-length brown hair and a broad smile. She's from a tiny rural village nearby. She's here today with her husband, and she's nervous. She's been accused of stealing more than 70,000 pounds from her post office. So just for some context,

post offices operate differently in the UK. They're overseen by a government funded corporation called Post Office Limited, or just the post office for short. But each individual branch is run by a regular person. Sort of like how you can own a McDonald's franchise. Seema has been running one of these post office franchises since 2005. But ever since the day she opened shop, the financial side has been a bit wonky. The accounting software that all UK post offices

are required to use started showing that money was missing from her location. Seema tried everything to fix it. She called the corporate post office's helplines, but they were useless. And worse, they said it was her responsibility to replace the missing money. After that, Sima did everything she could to cover the mounting losses, including funneling

her own savings into the account. She had to borrow £20,000 from her sister-in-law and even sold some of her family's jewelry. But the accounting software still kept showing losses, and Sima's debt kept piling up. The post office auditors also didn't believe her story. They told Seema she was the only one having these problems with the software, and that no one besides her had access to her store's accounts. In their eyes, she must be stealing the missing money.

So they took her to court. Here's Seema years later describing that process at a public inquiry. They made me feel that I'm the dumbest person. I don't know how to add one plus one. And my confidence was like a rock bottom. I said, I haven't taken a single penny. The only thing the post office has to prove its claim is their accounting software. No security footage, no trail of money and no witnesses.

Seema is so sure she's going to walk out of the courtroom that she's refused to pack a bag for prison. But then the judge reads the verdict. The jury has found Seema guilty. She's sentenced to 15 months in prison for a crime she didn't commit. Seema is shocked and so overwhelmed that she faints and collapses on the courtroom floor.

But the real surprise is that SEMA is just one of hundreds of victims, and over the next decade, they'll band together to prove their innocence and bring one of the UK's biggest institutions to its knees. The kids acting up again. Well, mums, we've all been there. My new rule is straight to the naughty corner. I'm Shazadie Charlotte Dawson and you can join me on my podcast where we dive into outrageous tales of parenting fails. We'll pop open a bottle of Chuffin Fizz and share hilarious stories from mums just like you. And, of course, we'll decide who deserves a trip to the naughty corner.

Let's have a laugh together. Listen and follow now wherever you get your podcasts. thought buried. Julian Norton and his lover were found dead at Haggerty's waterhole. Comes back to the surface. Ted, you're never gonna believe this. He's been under our noses this whole time. Trap-O, premiering on Freevy and Prime Video July 25th. From Wondery, I'm Sarah Hagee. And I'm Saatchi Cole. And this is Scamfluencers. Come and give me your attention I won't ever learn my lesson

Turn my speakers to eleven I feel like a legend Today, I'm going to tell you about a cover-up of massive proportions. The UK Post Office forced a computer system on its employees and then spent 20 years blaming them when things ran amok.

The scam was unraveled by a ragtag team of postal workers, journalists, politicians, and accountants, all led by a retiree hell-bent on getting justice, even when the odds were stacked against him. I'm calling this the Great British Post Office Scandal. More than a decade before Seema is sent to prison, Alan Bates is just beginning his journey with the post office.

It's 1998 in a small town on the coast of Wales. Alan is in his 40s. He's an outdoorsy guy with a round face and thinning hair. He worked as a manager for historic preservation projects, and his partner, Suzanne, was a special needs teacher. She's also in her 40s with a silver bob. The two just moved to the 40s with a silver bob. The two just moved to the country to enjoy a quieter life. The town has rolling hills,

tourist-filled beaches and nature reserves. They plan to go for long walks and run a general store, which also has a post office inside. In 1998, the UK has around 19,000 post offices, and they're a major source of public services in British communities, especially in small towns like Allen's. They deliver mail, duh, but they also

provide insurance, cash pension checks, process applications for passports and driver's licenses, and sell lottery tickets and gift cards. So by opening their own shop, Allen and Suzanne aren't just starting their own small business, they're becoming hubs of their community. Everything runs smoothly for Allen and Suzanne for the first few years.

By 2000, they've poured tens of thousands of pounds into renovating their shop, expanding the building, and hiring five staff members. They are thriving. But that year, the post office replaces its paper accounting system with a new software called Horizon. Alan has experience with electronic point of sale systems, and he's excited about the upgrade. But within three months, he starts getting confused because the software shows that the shop is missing £6,000. After some digging, Allen realizes that Horizon

is duplicating some of his transactions. It's creating profits that don't exist and making it look like Allen's post office is coming up short on cash. Allen spends two years fighting these losses. He knows the computer is getting it wrong, so he refuses to replace the supposedly missing funds with his own money.

He writes to his manager that he doesn't believe the post office can hold him liable for the loss until they completely rule out software glitches. Eventually, the post office declares that he is in breach of contract. But Alan talks to a lawyer who says, that can't be right. And when Alan complains one final time,

the post office terminates his contract and refuses to give a reason. It's kind of nuts that he has to fight the government to fix what sounds like just a clerical error within their software and he has to like scrap to get them to pay attention to him. Yeah, it is truly crazy. What the post office hasn't realized is that Alan is a housewives level grudge

holder and he sets out on a mission to make them pay. Post office franchise owners are called sub postmasters and there are thousands of them in the UK. Alan is convinced he can't be the only one having problems with Horizon. So he creates a website postofficevictims.org.uk, to try to find other people in his situation. He even hangs up a huge banner advertising it outside his shop. And he starts writing to local government officials and journalists to try to bring more attention to the software issue.

And as all of this is going on, Alan and Suzanne are getting financially hammered. Without the post office in their shop, they can't make ends meet. They're forced to sell their shop in 2006 and move further up the coast. The post office has won this battle, but Allen is determined to win the war. And now that he's had to close up his shop, he has even more fuel and time to dedicate

to his quest for vengeance. But even he will be shocked at how deep the scandal goes. It's 2008, and Paula Venels has just learned that a reporter is investigating the post office. Since Paula was just hired as the post office's network director, that is bad news for her. Paula is in her late 40s, has an auburn pixie cut,

and looks a bit squirrely. Her new job should be a great opportunity for her. She'll be working closely with the British government, and if she does a good job and makes the right connections, it could really boost her career. But now, Rebecca Thompson, a reporter from a tech magazine called Computer Weekly, is asking questions about the Horizon accounting software.

She's already talking to several subpostmasters who report issues with Horizon, including one from North Wales named Alan Bates. Paula is annoyed, but she's also terrified, because this could make her look very bad. The British government commissioned Horizon from a Japanese company called Fujitsu way back in 1996. Remember how people can cash their government checks

at the post office? Well, at that point, welfare fraud was costing the government millions of pounds a year. So the post office decided to move from paper accounting to a fully automated system. They awarded Fujitsu the $1 billion contract. At the time, Fujitsu claimed it was the biggest non-military IT project in Europe.

But the project had a ton of issues. And by 1998, it was clear that Horizon was a disaster. Some people in the UK government wanted to just throw it away, but others were worried about the potential backlash if they flushed hundreds of millions in taxpayer money down the drain. So they decided to roll out Horizon anyway and bring it to the 11,000 post offices across the country. By 2008, when Paul is reading the reporter's email, the software is still full of glitches

and it's processing more than 6 million transactions a day. And in a twist, it turns out that Horizon's bugs are making the post office money. It's reporting that franchise locations are making more money than they actually are. And when sub-postmasters call to complain about the gap between what Horizon claims the store has made versus what's actually in their accounts, the post office tells them they have to cover the difference themselves. If they don't, they face investigations, fines, and even prosecution. Not only that, but these prosecutions are being fueled

by the post office's own private investigative team. This unit was formed in the 1600s and is actually the oldest investigative force in the world. Sachi, you have to check out the special hats they get to wear, or at least what they wore in the 50s. Okay. I hate this. I hate these little hats.

It's exactly what you would wear if you are playing Clue too intensely. Yes. I have obviously already dated a man who loves these hats. It looks like something a villain in Wallace and Gromit would wear. Yeah. But despite the silly hats,

the post office investigative Unit is no joke. They have special powers that have been in place for centuries. Like they can interrogate people at police stations. Now, these powers are being used to investigate and prosecute sub-postmasters whose software spit out the wrong accounting data. By 2008, the post office has taken hundreds of its own franchise owners to court. Paula might not have been the person to commission Horizon

or the person to roll it out, but she's definitely in charge now. The post office is in bad financial straits and Paula is supposed to be turning things around. If anyone finds out that Horizon isn't working, she'll be the one to go down with the ship, especially if they find out that Horizon isn't working, she'll be the one to go down with the ship. Especially if they find out that the investigators have been getting bonuses for successful prosecutions. Paula knows that Horizon is bad, but she has to cover her own ass.

The post office has its own police and they're running roughshod over their own employees. So everything is like super corrupt all the way. Exactly. It snowballed into a huge mess and Paula has to act fast. The last thing she needs is a reporter sniffing around. So she sends an email to her entire staff telling them that nothing's wrong with Horizon. The email implies that any sub postmaster who claims otherwise is a thief looking for someone to blame. With this email, Paula sets the company line.

Defend Horizon at all costs. Meanwhile, the post office continues to tell individual franchise owners that they're the only ones experiencing glitches. And when a few of them band together to fight back, they'll turn into Paula's worst nightmare. The next year, in November 2009, Michael Rudkin is at a village hall in central England. The hall is a large room with wooden floors, pastel yellow walls and cheap looking chair set out in the circle. He's getting ready to speak to a small crowd of

about 45 people. Each one of them is a sub postmaster or a family member or friend of one. Michael stands up. He's a stout man with gray hair and large bushy eyebrows. And he's used to talking to crowds of postal workers. He is a former franchise owner and was a union representative with the National Federation of Subpostmasters. But today is different. This is the first ever meeting of a group called

the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance. Alan Bates created the alliance to help bring for Subpostmasters Alliance. Alan Bates created the Alliance to help bring more subpostmasters together. By this point, Computer Weekly has published Rebecca Thompson's report where she highlighted seven franchise owners who were bankrupted, prosecuted, and even sent to prison, all for accounting issues they blame on Horizon.

And a Welsh-language BBC station has reported on 30 other victims. But Post Office Limited is denying everything. And unfortunately, a story in a niche geek magazine and a Welsh-language news site aren't exactly capturing the public imagination. It is hard to get people to pay attention to something like this,

especially when it is so unbelievable. But today, Michael has been asked to share another truly shocking story from his time as a union rep. He tells a group that about a year ago, he visited Fujitsu's UK headquarters. He was there to discuss concerns about Horizon. At some point, a Fujitsu employee took him on a tour of the offices and then led him to the basement.

There, Michael saw several employees standing around a pair of Horizon terminals, which are the same machines that sit on post office counters all over the country. The guide introduced the workers as Fujitsu's quote, covert operations team. And they showed Michael some of their capabilities, including remotely accessing one branch's accounting system.

Here's Michael describing what happened years later on Channel 4 News. I asked him, have you just altered those figures and is this real time? The reply was yes. Realizing my disdain as to what I'd just witnessed, I was then more or less just ushered back upstairs and pushed out through the door like a common criminal. For years, post office management has said that secretly accessing franchise accounts is impossible. Now that Michael has shared his story,

the whole Alliance knows that's not true. If subpost masters aren't the only ones who can access Horizon, then the post office can't use evidence from Horizon to hold them liable, because there's no way of knowing if this evidence has been altered. Michael tells a group that he immediately tried to blow the whistle on what he witnessed, but the very next morning, he was woken up at 8.30 by a post office auditor at his house. The auditor said they found Michael's post office had lost more than 40,000 pounds.

Then they told him he was suspended and that if he wanted his post office back, he'd have to step down from his union position. He was terrified and agreed to pay the phony debt. Okay, so to recap, Michael is being shaken down by the UK government, who is also his employer to pay back 40,000 pounds of debt that he never actually accrued. Yes. And the post office wasn't done with Michael yet. His wife, Susan, was running the post office while he focused on his union gig. And they pressed criminal charges against her. She pled guilty to avoid prison.

Then she had to wear an ankle tag for six months. And Michael found that even his position in the union couldn't help him. The higher-ups were far more interested in maintaining a close relationship with the post office officials than fighting for one of their members. This is sick and awful and really depressing. Michael's story shows the post office

will punish anyone asking questions about Horizon. But even so, he's determined to show that Horizon is faulty, the post office is lying, and people are being convicted of crimes they haven't committed. Now, the newly formed Alliance just has to make sure the public gets the message. In November 2009, about a year after Michael told his story at the Alliance meeting, BBC Surrey reporter Nick Wallace is in a studio, scrolling through Twitter. He's hosting the channel's local morning radio show, and he's scanning tweets sent to the station's account.

He notices one from a cab company, asking if they could bid to be the BBC's cab service in Surrey. The broadcast is winding down, and Nick's a bit bored, so he replies asking if the cabbies would be willing to tell interesting stories on air. Almost immediately, the account replied, quote, I have a story to tell you. Call me.

After the show, Nick calls. The man on the other line is Devinder Misra. For the next 40 minutes, Devinder tells Nick a horrifying story. His pregnant wife, Seema, was wrongly accused of theft by the post office, and she was sent to jail just days before. Nick is struck by the emotion in Devinder's voice. He asks if they can meet. After hanging up, Nick does a quick Google search and finds the Alliance's website.

He reads the Computer Weekly article, and within an hour, he's on the phone with Alan. Nick is shocked as Alan fills him in on the Alliance and stories like Devender's from all over the country. Nick tells his boss he might have a big story. The next day, Nick meets Devender for coffee near SEMA's former post office. Devinder is a slender man with deep-set eyes and thick, dark hair.

He chain smokes for the next two hours as he tells Nick about his family's horrific battle with the post office. Seema is terrified and feels hopeless. He admits they've lied to their 10-year-old son. They told him that his mother is in a special hospital for pregnant people and that Seema's parents still don't know that she's behind bars. He says that angry locals have even assaulted him because they think that he and Seema are thieves who stole from pensioners and the government and use it as an excuse to engage in racist attacks. A few months later, in February 2011, Nick

interviews Devinder on the BBC show he works for called Inside Out South. Nick's program features two other subpost masters as well. One was suspended without pay for a supposed £50,000 loss at his location. The other pleaded guilty to avoid prison time. And one member of parliament went on record for the program, saying he was very concerned about the number of people reporting problems with Horizon. Nick also speaks to a lawyer who's working with Allen and the Alliance to put together a group litigation against the post office.

After the episode airs, Nick gets a flood of viewer feedback, including many who say they were also wrongfully prosecuted for Horizon errors. Nick's now certain that the story is even bigger than he originally thought. It's a potentially massive cover-up by one of England's most beloved and trusted institutions, one that has left families ruined in its wake. But Nick's not going to stop with just one story.

He's going to help Seema, DeVinder, Allen, and the Alliance drum up all the attention they need to expose the truth and make sure justice is delivered. Was there a crime committed? As far as I'm concerned, there wasn't. Guilty by Design dives into the wild story of Alexander and Frank, interior designers who in the 80s landed the jackpot of all clients. We went to bed one night and the next morning we woke up as one of the most wanted people in the United States. What are they guilty

of? You can listen to Guilty by Design exclusively and ad free on Wondry Plus. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Peyton, it's happening. We're finally being recognized for being very online. It's about damn time. I mean, it's hard work being this opinionated. And correct. You're such a Leo. All time. So if you're looking for a home for your worst opinions...

If you're a hater first and a lover of pop culture second... Then join me, Hunter Harris... And me, Peyton Dix, the host of Wanderys newest podcast, Lemme Say This. As beacons of truth and connoisseurs of mess, we are scouring the depths of the internet so you don't have to. We're obviously talking about the biggest gossip and celebrity news. Like it's not a question of if Drake got his body done, but when. You are so messy for that, but we will be giving you the b-sides, don't you worry. The deep cuts, the niche, the obscure. Like that one photo of Nicole Kidman after she finalized her divorce from Tom Cruise.

Mother. A mother to many. Follow Let Me Say This on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new episodes on YouTube or listen to Let Me Say This at free by joining Wondry Plus and the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. More than a year after Nick's new story airs, Ron Warmington and Ian Henderson are sitting down with the post office's top brass. Ron and Ian are older, gray-haired businessmen

who look like the corporate versions of Bert and Ernie. They run a forensic accounting firm called Second Sight, and the Post Office is asking them to take on a massive task, investigating Horizon. The Post Office has been feeling pressure to give answers about Horizon. The Alliance has lawyered up, reporters like Nick are pestering them with questions, and government officials are raising concerns too. So the new Post Office CEO has decided to do something about it. And that new CEO is Paula Venals.

Perfect. I am confident that Paula is going to straighten this out, Sarah. Well, she's the one who decided to hire Ron and Ian, and she's probably hoping their investigation will find that Horizon works. Then the whole problem will just go away. Ron and Ian have seen this kind of thing before. Their firm specializes in investigating corporate fraud,

and they tell Paula that they're not interested in taking on this job unless they can get to the actual truth at all costs. And Paula agrees. So Ron and Ian get to work. They meet with the MPs and Alan who connect them to other Alliance members. Ian starts combing through post office paperwork and Ron starts

driving around the British countryside in his vintage green Bentley interviewing subpost masters. And what Ron hears in these interviews disturbs him. Dozens of franchise owners tell similar stories of flaws in the Horizon system and of the very limited help they got from the post office in trying to fix it. Many of them told Ron that when they called the helpline, they were told, quote, don't worry about it, it'll sort itself out.

I find most things with the post office or with the government just sort themselves out. They just work. This would piss me off so much. Yeah. The Subpost Masters also tell Ron about the post office investigators who seem more focused on recovering supposedly stolen money than getting to the root of the problem. Ron reviews tapes of the post office investigators interviewing franchise owners and he's shocked by what he hears

Here's how he describes it on the great post office trial podcast. It was thuggish behavior I can describe it as that I was listening to interviews where there was they were swearing and cursing Consistently saying I want to know what you did with the money. You've stolen the money which was completely unprofessional It's like they were the mob No It's truly mob shit and Ron and Ian are alarmed by these tactics Because they can't find even a single case where it seems like a franchise owner has suddenly come into money

Here's what Ian tells BBC's panorama, Scandal at the Post Office. I might have expected to hear about an expensive holiday or a flash car or something like that. We saw nothing to indicate that if money had been stolen, that it had been used to benefit the sub-postmaster or their immediate family. Ian and Ron start getting emotionally involved in the case and in the victims. Franchise owners say they've been pushed to the brink by ongoing accusations, trials

and prison time. Some admit they've considered ending their own lives. Tragically, Ron also hears about some franchise owners who actually did. What a position of having no control and being

full of fear. That makes sense. And being gaslit into thinking you're a thief somehow, but knowing you're not. Yeah. Meanwhile, dealing with the post office has been its own challenge. Ron and Ian's investigation is slowed way down

because the post office's documentation system is a big old mess. After investigating for nearly a year, the team sends their draft report to the post office, the alliance, and other government officials. And even though it's not released to the public, the report is damning.

It confirms that the post office knew Horizon had bugs, but that instead of helping people who reported problems, they demanded that the supposed shortfalls come out of the sub-postmaster's pockets. It criticized the post office's substandard training process, investigation techniques, and overall treatment of franchise owners. Post office executives told Ron and Ian that they wanted to uncover the truth. But this report is about to test their resolve. Because now, the post office has to decide if it's willing to give this damning report its stamp of approval.

Second Sight releases their draft report in July 2013. One week later, Paula reads a memo from a Post Office lawyer saying that, legally, the organization should have told franchise owners about bugs in the Horizon system. She's also hearing concerns from the post office board that Second Sight's findings could expose the organization to wrongful conviction claims. Unless they act fast, the post office and Paula could be facing a giant legal shit storm.

Paula's more liable than ever because she just signed another contract with Fujitsu, the software company that made Horizon in the first place. This time, the company is taking over archives of post office branch data. And sure, Paula's colleagues have warned her that the new system is less secure and could result in losing important data, including

evidence that might exonerate wrongly convicted sub-postmasters. But she did it anyway. So I appreciate that Paula was perhaps not guilty of being the one to roll out Horizon, but it does seem like her hands are now absolutely in the mud. Well, a couple of months after Ron and Ian's report comes out, Paula and the post office make an announcement. They say they're ready to work out a deal with the sub-postmasters and that they want

to find a way to pay back anyone impacted by Horizon. 150 people apply to participate in the mediation process. But behind the scenes, Paula and other higher-ups at the post office have formed a secret subcommittee to deal with the mediation. They call it Project Sparrow, and the plan they come up with is to give these sub-postmasters, quote, token payments of about 3,000 pounds to 5,000 pounds each. Well, that does, in fact, feel like a token when they were expecting 40,000 pounds. It's just not enough money. But in June 2014, about a year after SecondSight

filed their draft report, Paula gets another report from accounting firm Deloitte. They've also been hired to look into the Horizon system, and they confirm what the Alliance has been saying for years. It is possible for Fujitsu to access and alter Horizon records without sub-postmasters knowing. Paula and Project Sparrow must be spooked, because they stopped prosecuting franchise owners.

They accept fewer people into the mediation program and drag their feet providing information to government officials. But that ticks off the MPs who have gotten involved. So they call a hearing and invite Paula to come and explain herself. In February 2015, Paula sits down in front of the UK's Business Select Committee. She's wearing a grey suit and her signature string of pearls and pearl earrings, but they can't distract from her worried, weary expression. Paula is surrounded by pissed-off politicians, Alan Bates and other members of the Alliance

and Ron and Ian's investigative team. Also in attendance is Nick, the journalist she's been avoiding for the last four years. Paula is backed into a corner. Here's what she says. We can continue to have confidence in the Horizon system and the way that the people are running post offices across the country. For me, that's really critical.

So she's a fucking liar? I mean, it's a crazy time to double down. And a month after the hearing, Paula announces the post office is firing second site. The firm is given a month to turn in their final report, which will be kept confidential. And the post office declares that any sub-postmaster who is convicted of a crime related to Horizon will not be eligible for mediation. So everyone who's been wrongfully convicted is out of a crime related to Horizon will not be eligible for mediation. So everyone who's been wrongfully convicted is out of luck. Paula and her cronies at the post office

are unwilling to back down from their years-long effort to deny problems with Horizon. But they're about to discover that their postal coverup is a certified fail. About a year after Ron and Ian's investigation is shelved, in February 2016, Allen secures funding to file a group litigation order against the post office. A group litigation is very close to a class action,

so he can bring lots of sub-postmasters into the case. More than two years after that, in November 2018, Allen finally has his day in court. He's in a dull-looking office building in the heart of London that houses one of the most important courts in the UK. By this time, Allen's been fighting the post office for nearly two decades. Here's Allen talking about it years later

on the LBC radio show. It's incompetence and arrogance as well, because they felt they could get away with it all the time. They had the money, they had the power. It wasn't until we got them in court more than a thousand subpost masters applied to join the case against the post office. This is one huge case that will actually involve at least four different trials all focused on different issues like Contracts the horizon software bugs and false convictions Alan is aware the Alliance has a long way to go But it's probably a very exciting time for him and now that the Alliance has gotten the high court's attention

The wider press is finally interested. This is no longer a fringe story is finally interested. This is no longer a fringe story. Meanwhile, the post office is still trying to drag out the court case and run up legal bills for the subpost masters. But Paula isn't laying low. By the end of 2018, with the trial still ongoing, she's awarded a CBE.

That's a title given by the monarch to people across the Commonwealth who have done exceptional things. It's one step below knighthood. According to a press release, Paula's CBE award is for her quote, work on diversity and inclusion at post office, her commitment to the social purpose at the heart of the business, and her dedication in putting the customer first. Well you need a diverse set of people who are full of shit in any workplace, and I'm

glad that Paula is filling those quotas. Well, just weeks later, Paula announces she's leaving the post office. She's taking up a job at the cabinet office under Prime Minister Theresa May, and she's also appointed chair of the Imperial College Health Care NHS Trust. But then, in March 2019, Allen and the sub-postmasters win a major victory. The judge issues a ruling that the post office's culture of secrecy led to abuse of franchise owners.

He found that the contracts they signed were, quote, so oppressive as to be unlawful. It's the first time that a court has called out the post office and clearly stated that it was screwing over its own employees. The ruling will finally force the post office to change how it works with the subpostmasters. And this judge is also overseeing the other trials, so things are looking up for the alliance. However, those other trials are going to take time and tons of money. Allen starts to worry that something with the case

could go wrong. They could lose, or the trials could take so long that they'll be left with nothing but massive legal fees. So in December, more than a year after the trial began, Allen and the post office agree on a settlement for nearly 58 million pounds. The subpost masters have spent 46 million pounds on this trial, which means they're left

with a measly 20,000 pounds each. It's certainly not enough for Seema and Devinder to recoup their losses, and it doesn't even scratch a surface of the 60,000 pounds Allen put in his own post office all those years ago. Allen feels like his hand was forced. He wants more for himself and the other postmasters. But if there's one thing we know about Alan,

it's that he won't stop pushing the envelope. Just days after the settlement, a crowd of sub-postmasters gather outside the courthouse in central London. The judge is about to issue another ruling, this one about the Horizon software. A bunch of journalists are there, including Nick and a reporter from Computer Weekly. Ron and Ian have also turned up to show their support. A group poses under a long red banner

that reads S.O.S. Support our Subpostmasters. The judge finds that the post office has been knowingly prosecuting people on the basis of an unreliable software system for years. He says they did this because the company's executives were so wrapped up in its corporate culture and would stop at nothing to preserve its reputation. He called it, quote, the 21st century equivalent of maintaining that the earth is flat. The judge is so disturbed that he says he's sending the matter to an even higher official, the UK's head of public prosecutions. And he's not the only one who thinks there's more to uncover. MPs are calling out for a public inquiry. They want to know the answer to one question.

Where is all the sub postmasters money? The sub postmasters are finally getting justice, but the settlement money is a joke and the false convictions haven't been overturned. Luckily, the victims are about to find some unexpected allies, ones who can shine a white-hot spotlight on this incredible story. History teaches. History defines. History sometimes repeats. It gives context to the world around us and feeds a hunger for knowledge.

So go deeper into the events that define our world and discover more to the story with Wondry's top history podcasts, including hit shows like American History Tellers, American Scandal, Legacy, and even The Royals. Expand your knowledge and be entertained along the way. Whether you're a history buff or a new history fan, Wondery shows go behind the scenes to tell the stories of well-known and otherwise forgotten moments that define our reality. From deep dives into iconic figures like J. Edgar Hoover, who made even the most powerful men in the world nervous, to unknown facts that may surprise you, like did you know Samuel L. Jackson was expelled from Morehouse College after protesting the university's response to MLK's assassination? Wondery's History podcasts have something for everyone.

Listen to Wondery's History podcasts to get more to the story. I feel like a legend. A couple months after the settlement is announced, Natasha Bondi reads an article about the post office scandal in the Sunday Times. Natasha is blonde with bright blue eyes. She's a co-owner of an independent TV production company called Little Gem, and she is shocked by the story.

She reaches out to Nick Wallace and Alan Bates and asks to meet up. When she hears her stories, she's positive that this could be a TV show. While Natasha works on her pitch, the real drama with the Alliance continues. In September 2020, an independent public inquiry is established to review the entire scandal. And in April 2021, the head of public prosecutions completes an investigation. His office finds that more than 40 of the sub-postmaster convictions are bogus, and they call the scandal the most widespread miscarriage of justice in UK history. Sima is one of the people declared innocent more than a decade after she was sent to jail.

Natasha reaches out to the creative director of ITV Studios, which is one of the biggest broadcasters in the UK, and they greenlight a TV mini-series, Mr. Bates versus the Post Office. It takes a lot of work to get it off the ground. The production team's Bible on the Post Office scandal is 130,000 pages long. They use a research team to document every email,

color code who had knowledge of each event, and transcribe every recording they can get their hands on. Nick is hired as a consultant on the show and gives feedback on the script and production. He's been working on his own telling of the story, a book called The Great Post Office Scandal, which tracks his coverage of the case. And Natasha works hand-in-hand with Alan to bring his story to life. In 2023, filming begins in Wales, where Alan first opened his post office more than 20 years ago.

The show airs on New Year's Day 2024. According to network figures, more than 3 million viewers tune in to the premiere. Suddenly, everyone is talking about the post office scandal. By the end of the month, some 10 million people have watched the show. That's more than 10% of Britain's entire population. The TV drama does exactly what Alan, Sima, Nick,

and so many others have been trying to do for years. Stir up massive public outrage. A week after the show's premiere, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak announces a new law to pardon the wrongly convicted subpostmasters and give them compensation. By the time the finale of Mr. Bates versus a post office airs, more than a million people have signed

an online petition calling for Paula Venals to return her CBE. Within weeks, King Charles strips her of the honor. Paula also steps down from her cabinet job and a few board appointments at large retail chains. A few weeks later, the public inquiry resumes, and Paula is forced to give testimony. From behind the witness stand, she breaks down. I worked as hard as I possibly could to deliver the best post office for the UK. What I failed to do is I did not recognize

the imbalance of power between the institution and the individual, and I let these people down. I have less than no empathy for Paula. I have never had less empathy for anybody in my life. She could have squashed it so quickly when she first knew about all of this, and she didn't. Seema and Devinder make the rounds of British TV sharing their story.

They refuse to accept what Paula and other former executives of the post office have to say. Here's Seema on Good Morning Britain. Each and every single person responsible for the scandal, they need to go behind the bars, not the innocent people. If Paula is a villain of the story, Alan is the undisputed hero. He got the chance to take the stand in the public inquiry and tell the nation exactly what he thinks of the post office after all he's been through.

They're an atrocious organization. They need disbanding. It needs removing. It needs building up again from the ground floor. The whole of the postal service nowadays, it's beyond, it's a dead duck. Alan is still campaigning and working hard to get justice. And in June 2024, he was knighted by King Charles. He is now Sir Alan. As of this recording, the public inquiry is still ongoing. So stay tuned. More justice is yet to be served. Sachi, when I first read this story,

I knew it would break you. Every so often we do an episode that makes me, it makes me so mad that I feel like I lose the skill of language, because it's just such a fundamentally awful scam. It was totally avoidable in every single way from the moment it started. And these truly innocent people who opened a store got ripped off, traumatized, got criminal records, got abused. I don't know how people can hear stories like this and be like, yeah, I inherently trust these systems that are in place. It's also one of those scams where if this had happened between individuals and a private

company, then I can see how it kind of gets out of hand and how it's hard to get those people to be responsible for anything. But this is the government. So then you have to go to the government to say the government is doing this to me. It is the least safe space you can possibly be in as a citizen anywhere. It is also so crazy because, yeah, they spent a billion dollars on this system, but all you have to do is change it. It's technology. You fix it. This isn't like something that's set in stone. Yeah, what a bummer to think about the fact that we build all of the things that we have.

Every institution we have, every structure we have, we build it, and we build it wrong. Look how we build it broken. And the only reason why any of this worked out was because these people created unity between them and they were like, wait a second, there are so many of us, we cannot give up. But also they still didn't get enough money at all.

Like I don't understand how all this money that was stolen from them can't just be given back. Like the post office made a profit off of these lies. I feel like the only lesson we've learned today is that the best cure for all of this is a cleansing fire. It is. I mean, listen, this is making big points for anarchy. I think this is one of the scams

that have jokerfied me the most, to be honest. High bar. High bar. If you like scam flincers, you can listen to every episode early and ad-free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey. This is The Great British Post Office Scandal.

I'm Sarah Haggye. And I'm Saatchi Cole. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at scamfluencers at Wondry.com. We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were the works of journalist Nick Wallace, including his book, The Great Post Office Scandal,

and his podcast with Rebecca Thompson, Investigating the Post Office Scandal, as well as the website of the JFSA and the Post Office Inquiry's searchable database of transcripts. Jessica Lucas wrote this episode, additional writing by us, Sachi Cole, and Sarah Hagge.

Eric Thurm is our story editor. Back checking by Sarah Baum. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Adrienne Tapia. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Freesan Sync. Our managing producers are Desi Blaylock and Matt Gant. Janine Cornelo and Stephanie Jens are our development producers. Our associate producers are Charlotte Miller and Lexi Puri. Blaylock and Matt Gant. Janine Cornelow and Stephanie Jens are our development producers.

Our associate producers are Charlotte Miller and Lexi Puri. Our producers are John Reed, Yasmin Ward and Kate Young. Our senior producers are Sarah Unney and Ginny Blum. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louie and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery. My name is Georgia King and I am thrilled to be the host of And Away We Go, a brand new travel podcast on Wondry Plus, where we'll be whisked away on immersive adventures all around the world. Where we go, what we do, what we eat, drink and listen to will all be up to my very special guests. We've got Ben Schwartz taking us on a whirlwind trip around Disneyland. We'll eat a bowl of life-changing pasta with Jimmy O'Yang in Tuscany, Italy. And how do you feel about a spot of sugaring off with Emily Hampshire in Montreal?

And away we go, we'll immerse you in some of the wonders of the world. And how do you feel about a spot of sugaring off with Emily Hampshire in Montreal? And Away We Go will immerse you in some of the wonders of the world. We're going to be seeing some yellows and vibrant oranges. And the shoes clicking against the cobblestone. If you're looking to get somebody in the mood, have them look at the Chicago skyline. You can listen to And Away We Go exclusively with Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. George, do you know what joy sounds like?

I think I'm hearing it right now.