Scamfluencers - Who Wants to Scam a Millionaire

Episode Date: June 24, 2024

Charles and Diana Ingram are an average British couple with a love of pub quizzes who set out to appear on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? But when Charles wins the big prize, the producers point to a coughing fit to claim he cheated his way to the win. The public outcry, and criminal trial, ruined the Ingrams for good. And now, decades later, some wonder if maybe the Ingrams are the ones who got conned.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or Apple podcasts. A note to our listeners. This episode includes a brief reference to thoughts of self-harm. Please listen with care. Sachi, do you think there's a game show you'd be really good at? Yeah, I think I would be really good at match game. Especially if they couldn't see my face.

Yeah, I mean, that's a bit of a weird one because I feel like there aren't really any right answers to that. You're just trying to guess about another person. Yeah, and I would be so good at that and I would make them fall in love with me. And then I would vanish. Okay, well mine was something normal like Wheel of Fortune because I've stayed home so many times to watch it, you know? Well, this story is about a game show where there definitely are right answers.

And it's about what people will do to win a way bigger prize than a bad date, a whole million dollars. It's September 10th, 2001. At a television studio outside of London, Charles Ingram is living through one of the most stressful moments of his life. Charles is a 38-year-old Army major with a round face, a blonde widow's peak, and a distinctive British pastiness. He's sitting in the center of a soundstage with a studio audience surrounding him in

a coliseum-like ring. Charles is sweating through one of the most hideous polo shirts to ever appear on television. Sachi, take a look at this screenshot from the show. Okay, well, Charles looks like Christopher Nolan and Putin mixed together. And he is wearing a very ugly color block shirt, yes. But it's also a shirt I have seen most men in Brooklyn wear. You know, that is true. And Charles might look deeply unserious,

but the pressure on him right now is no joke. He's appearing on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, and he's gone all the way to the million pound question. The lights dim and ominous music plays in the studio. The host is Chris Tarrant, a floppy haired radio jockey turned game show MC. And here's his final question. A number one followed by 100 zeros is known by what name?

The choices are A, Google, B, Megatron, C. Gigabit, or D. Nanomole. Charles puts his head down and sighs. The sweat is pouring off him in waves. Hundreds of people have appeared on Who Wants to be a Millionaire since it premiered in 1998. It's the most popular game show Britain has ever created. In fact, at this moment, it's the most popular game show in the world. But only two people have actually won the top prize.

If Charles answers this question correctly, he'll be the third. His wife, Diana, watches him from the stands. She has dark hair and a stern brow and looks like she's about to pass out. Charles is wavering back and forth. He doesn't know the answer. If he chooses to not play the question,

he'll walk away with 500,000 pounds, which is still a lot of money. But if he answers incorrectly, he'll only take home 32,000 pounds. He stumbled his way through many of the previous questions, openly admitting he has no idea which answer is correct. But his wild stabs in the dark have worked so far. Now he's hoping his luck holds out one last time.

Charles decides to go for it. I think I know. I think it's a Google. I'm going to a Google. Yeah. I'm going to play Google. Yeah. Final answer. Final answer.

Final answer. Chris rips up the 500,000 pound check because... Charles is just one at all. He's a millionaire. Charles covers his face in shock as Chris hugs him. The crowd erupts and confetti rains down around them. Diana joins them on stage. Chris calls Charles the most extraordinary contestant

they've ever had. Charles tears up as he accepts his check. It's the stuff of reality TV dreams, but little does Charles know that this high is about to turn into his own personal hell. Because some people suspect the major was cheating and they'll do anything to prove that this rags-to-riches story is just too good to be true.

Em, what do you look for in a globally massive pop star? Oh, I want sensationally inappropriate outfits, incredible glamour, and an almost unapproachable cool. Well, for the latest series of Terribly Famous, would you settle for some plaid shirts, ginger hair and an acoustic guitar? Er, no. No, I won't. What if there's a loop pedal? Alright, keep talking.

That is actually it. Well, it just sounds a bit ordinary. Emily, this is Ed Sheeran. You really won't believe the twists and turns his story takes. Okay, fine. Sell me Ed. Addiction, shame spirals, family interventions, grief, massive court cases, obsession. Okay, okay, I'm listening.

Ed mapped out his whole career when he was just a teenager and he has followed that path to some very strange places. How strange? Jennifer Aniston's son lounger. Just an ordinary guy. Follow Terribly Famous wherever you listen to podcasts or listen early and ad free on Wandery Plus on Apple podcasts or the Wandery app. At these family dinners, dysfunction is served. I can't have you all messing things up. My entire adult life. Oh, I'm sorry.

Do we embarrass you? Dinner next Friday, everyone. Wouldn't miss for the world. Dinner with the Parents, Season 1, stream free, only on Freevy. From Wondery, I'm Sarah Haggge and I'm Sachi Cole, and this is Scamfluencers. This scam is about a thoroughly average British couple whose big win should have been a national feel-good story. Instead, they were accused of attempting a scheme so clumsy it could have been undone with a cough drop. The producers and the public were determined to make them pay for cheating on Britain's most beloved game show. But as we look back decades later, many people are wondering if maybe the Ingrams were the ones who got conned.

This is Who Wants to Scam a Millionaire. In April 2001, a few months before Charles Ingram becomes public enemy number one, his wife, Diana, films her appearance on Millionaire. Diana is in her mid-30s and a mother of three. She was trained as a nursery school assistant, but now she mostly takes care of her kids. She's shy, serious, and loves trivia. Now she's on the biggest quiz show in history

with a chance to win a million pounds. Diana is pumped up on adrenaline. She can barely speak, even to the host Chris, who's an absolute charm factory. He has a natural ability to get the best out of his millionaire contestants, but not Diana. She's so laser-focused, she hardly stops to laugh at his jokes. Diana's been training for this moment since her father introduced her

and her brothers to the show more than a year ago. When Millionaire premiered, it was a full-on cultural moment. At one point, nearly a third of Britain's population watched as everyday people got a chance to earn life-changing money. Sachi, what do you remember about this show? I very distinctly remember watching Who Wants to Be a Millionaire with my parents, like, really excited when anybody got even close. I watched it a lot. It was fun. Yeah, it was really like a moment

where everyone was watching the same thing at the same time. And as host, Chris conducts the game beautifully. He teases out the tension, and the set's metallic sheen and dramatic lighting add to the intensity. Which makes sense, since the set was partially inspired by Gestapo interrogation tactics.

It's spectacularly stressful and high stakes for the contestant, but a fun time for the audience playing along at home. Trivia-obsessed Brits have been desperately trying to get on the show since it debuted. But to be selected to play, you first have to call a premium rate phone line and answer a super obscure trivia question. The calls cost 60 pence a minute, and the production company purposefully makes them long.

This is part of what makes the show profitable. Diana's brother Adrian managed to get on the show a few months ago after calling the premium rate line 1,700 times. Adrian didn't make it to the final question, but still got to take home 32,000 pounds. I'm not good at math, but I would like to know how much money he spent then on 1,700 phone calls. I guess it depends on how long the phone calls were, but also maybe he was like, listen, I'm going to get some money out of it. This is out of my millionaire budget.

He must have been very hopeful. Well, there's also a rabid fan community in Britain who spend most of their free time trying to help each other get on the show. They tell each other what obscure questions a production company is asking on the phone line, and they share tips for what to do if the company calls back. This quizzing community, plus Adrian's experience navigating the rules, have been a big help in getting Diana to this point. Now all of her work has paid off.

She's here in the hot seat. Dramatic music vibrates through her chair. Diana whizzes through the game until she reaches the 64,000 pound question, the stage where her brother lost. The question is, who wrote the nonsense poem, The Hunting of the Snark? People who know the show will remember that contestants get three lifelines.

Phone a friend, 50-50, and ask the audience. Diana still has her 50-50 lifeline, but she's pretty sure she knows who the author is, so she doesn't use it. She answers, Edward Lear, which is wrong. Sachi, do you know the answer? I don't think that I do, but I don't think I would have guessed Edward Lear.

Well, it's Lewis Carroll, and Diana is kicking herself. She knew the answer, but cracked under pressure. Like her brother, she walks away with 32,000 pounds. After the taping, Chris congratulates Diana on her win. She's just made a lot of money, but she isn't happy. She tells Chris she should have known the right answer. She even had a lifeline left. Diana is disappointed by her performance,

and she has a hard time letting go of the show. She and her brother start writing a book called Millionaire, an insider's guide. It's filled with advice on the best times to call the phone lines and what it's like waiting at the studio. But when her family is hit with an unexpected setback, Diana will once again turn to the game she loves

for a lifeline. Four months after Diana's millionaire appearance, she, Charles, and their three girls are on their way home from a summer trip. But when they pull up to their house, Diana's confused. Furniture is scattered on the lawn. They rush inside and see all the drawers pulled out and emptied. They've been robbed.

Jewelry, clothes, family heirlooms, all gone. This is a huge financial blow for Diana and her family. They're already in 27,000 pounds of debt. Diana's millionaire money would have covered it, but a few months ago, Adrian told Diana his business was failing. And since he was so helpful in getting her on the show, she gave him about half her winnings.

It's a very generous thing to do, but Diana's kindness didn't go over well with Charles. He's never been a big fan of her brothers, and they really could have used the money. Diana and Charles are raising three little girls. There's school tuition to pay, and they'd like to buy a home someday. The robbery makes things a lot less certain,

even after Charles files an insurance claim to cover the losses. So Diana looks to her favorite show for help again. Millionaire rules prevent people from going on twice, but there's someone in her family who could still compete, her husband. Although Charles has been supportive of Diana's hobby, he hasn't been all that interested

in the show. But Charles is no dummy. He's a military man for the Royal Engineers. Diana hopes that he can pull their family out of debt and redeem her quizzing name along the way. About a month after the robbery, Charles steps onto the set of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. It's Sunday, September 9, 2001. He only got the official invite to appear on the show last night.

He and Diana rushed to find childcare for their kids. And while contestants usually only get one extra ticket, they managed to get another one for Diana's other brother, Marcus. Production sticks him in the so-called VIP area, AKA the off-camera nosebleeds. That suits Marcus just fine because at the moment, he's on the run. Not from the police, from people he owes money to.

Like so many people in this family, Marcus is both an avid quizzer and in serious debt. He's currently hiding out and only communicating with family using pagers. But when Diana paged him to explain that Charles made it onto the show, Marcus called back and said he wanted to go to the studio. Charles takes a seat at the edge of the stage

in the section for potential contestants. He has butterflies in his stomach. The fastest finger first round is about to start. That's a part of the show where the pool of contestants butterflies in his stomach. The fastest finger first round is about to start. That's a part of the show where the pool of contestants must put four answers, A, B, C, and D, in the correct order. For example, it would be a list of things from smallest to largest.

The first one to answer correctly moves on. Although Charles is nervous for this round, Diana's had him practice 20 minutes a day on a machine Adrian built, and it pays off. Charles is the fastest one. Now, it's on to the hot seat. Well, thank God, because they've really put all of their eggs in this one very stupid basket.

He made a machine to emulate this part of the show. Yeah. That is crazy. It's a gamble. It's kind of the show. Yeah. That is crazy. It's a gamble. It's kind of paying off. Well, Charles does make it past the 1,000 pound question with relative ease. But the next question is about a British soap opera.

And Charles is terrible at pop culture. So he has to use a lifeline. Charles opts to ask the audience. And luckily, they help him out. He's still alive. But he ends up having to use a lifeline on the next question too. He gets that one right, but then a siren rings out signaling he's out of time for today. They'll have to pick up the game tomorrow. Charles is stressed to the max. Like Diana, he's not happy with his performance under pressure, and he didn't expect

to have to come back the next day. But he also realizes this is the last chance for his family to make it to the million. With a night off to regroup, he's going to need to come up with a strategy to make sure he can get them there. The next day, Adrian Wolfe is on the millionaire set. This isn't Diana's brother. This Adrian is a commercial and marketing director at Celador, the production company

that created the show. He's one of the people responsible for turning millionaire into a worldwide phenomenon. This Adrian is in his 30s. He wears a sharp suit and his dark hair moose back. Being part of Millionaire's juggernaut success has been the highlight of his professional life. But he and the entire team have started to worry that the show is attracting the wrong kind of attention.

There's a deep sense of mistrust brewing between the show's producers and the dedicated group of quizzers fighting desperately to get on. ITV, the show's broadcaster, was built as a working-class alternative to the middle-class BBC. But lately, the millionaire contestants have looked more suited for a BBC audience, aka older, wealthier, white nerds.

Millionaire has gotten flack for the shift in the press, and ratings have slumped, which means fewer people are interested in getting on the show and they're making less money from the premium phone line. Right around this time, they aired their least watched episode ever. And even worse, not only are the recent contestants boring television, they're also really damn good at answering questions. They're winning higher prizes and straining Sellador's budget.

Basically, the quizzing fanatics who love the show so much are kind of killing it. I love that the show was too confident about how dumb people would be. Yeah, they didn't realize they would create this whole other community of people obsessed with the show. So, Adrian watches nervously as Charles gets back into the hot seat.

He feels like there's something just a bit off about the blundering major. First of all, his wife and brother-in-law have already been on the show. That's the kind of strange coincidence he and the millionaire team have been watching for. And then there's Charles' guest in the audience, Marcus. During filming yesterday, he was caught outside

trying to make calls on his cell phone twice. That would be a cardinal sin, even at a pub trivia night. And on top of that, Charles insisted on going to work today, even though he was filming tonight. Usually, millionaire rollover contestants spend the night at a nearby hotel and miss work to make sure they can be on the show. It's all a little strange.

On the plus side, Charles is a mess. Not at all like the so-good-they're-boring players Adrian's been worried about. Charles blew two lifelines really early, which, in Adrian's experience, means he probably won't last much longer. Adrian watches as Charles tells a host about his new strategy for today. He says he's going on the counterattack. He wants to show more confidence and commit to answers

instead of constantly second guessing himself. In reality, though, Charles seems just as unsure. He repeats the multiple choice options over and over. A few different times, Charles says he's never heard of one of the options, but ends up picking it anyway. Like on the question, who had the hit album born to do it? Coldplay, Top Loader, A-1, or Craig David? Charles says the album sounds familiar,

but he isn't sure who it could be. He mutters to himself saying he doesn't even know who Craig David is. Charles uses his 50-50 lifeline, leaving him with A-1 and Craig David. I'm going to go for A-1. Yep. Final answer? No.

Charles makes a joke about being wrong 80% of the time, then switches his answer to Craig David. And that's correct. Charles has just made it to the 32,000 pound question. You know, if I was watching this, especially if I was a producer on this show, I would consider this fishy. Yeah, I mean, you could only get so lucky so many times. Adrian watches, confused as Charles' unusual gameplay somehow wins him more and more money.

He's beginning to fear that the production company's worst case scenario is happening right in front of him. Charles may be cheating. The production staff pauses filming to review the footage. They notice that Diana had a small coughing fit during the question, but there's nothing obviously wrong. So they start filming again.

And Charles somehow makes it all the way to the million pound question. What's a one followed by a hundred zeros? Charles does his bizarre answer dance, saying all of the options out loud multiple times before selecting Google. The set is dead quiet as Charles locks in his answer. But Adrian is backstage flipping out. He knows that Charles has answered correctly and he's in a panic.

He calls his boss and tells him to get down to the studio right away. Adrian thinks they have to stop the show, but his boss says that without any concrete evidence, they have to let it play out. So the host, Chris, brings the show, but his boss says that without any concrete evidence, they have to let it play out. So the host, Chris, brings the show back from commercial break and tells Charles he's won the million.

The confetti falls, but Adrian isn't celebrating. He has Ingram searched as they exit the stage, but the crew finds nothing. Soon, he'll realize the production shouldn't be looking for something. They should be listening. From Wandery, I'm Raaza Jaffrey. And this is The Spy Who. This series, we open the file on Eamonn Dean, the spy who betrayed Bin Laden.

In 1994, 16-year-old Eamon wants to die. He heads to war-torn Bosnia to join the Mujahideen and save his fellow Muslims. He hopes to become a martyr so that he can be reunited with his dead parents in paradise. Instead, he's about to be confronted by a cruel and bloody reality. A reality that'll lead him to turn his back on terrorism and become the West's top spy inside Al-Qaeda. Follow the Spy Who on the Wandery app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of the Spy Who betrayed Bin Laden early and ad-free with Wandery Plus. I don't even put me above Judy. Judy's a better person than me. I don't think I'm putting you above Judy. I think you're in at number three. I was being polite.

And I will. There are other Murrays out there, so I will absolutely take that. But number one on your list was Andy Murray. So saying as he was number one on your list will scrap the idea of doing a three-part podcast on me. And your sports career. And instead we'll do it on Andy Murray, the hunt for the Holy Grail, which is of course his first Wimbledon. I'd quite like to do a three-part series on your sports career. And instead we'll do it in Andy Murray, the hunt for the Holy Grail, which is of course his first Wimbledon. I'd quite like to do a three-part series in your sports career.

Age 12, Belfast, and Colin Murray can't find his boot bag. It would be awful. This one isn't though, it'd be great. Because Andy Murray winning Wimbledon was one of those seismic moments in our lifetime in sports. Yeah, huge. Yeah, and so much to talk about in this three-part series. So subscribe on Wondery Plus,

or wherever you get your podcasts. And I feel like a legend After Charles' win, Paul Smith arrives at the millionaire set outside of London. Paul is in his early 50s. He's a severely balding Irishman who founded Sellador and is now its managing director. He got a call from Adrian earlier and ran right over.

By the time he arrives, Charles has won the million pounds and the next player has taken the hot seat. Confetti is still on the floor of the set. Paul rushes over to the production truck at the studio. He closely watches a bank of TV screens while a sound supervisor plays back Charles' performance question by question, looking for clues. He plays Charles' response to this one,

who made the painting, The Ambassadors. I think it was either Holbein or Rembrandt. I have seen it. I think it was either Holbein or Rembrandt. I have seen it. I think it was Holbein. The sound supervisor points out that someone very obviously coughed after Charles read out the correct answer. In fact, there's a cough like that on almost every single question. They're not certain where the coughs are coming from, but they do have video footage of Diana,

and she coughs during the Craig David question. Although Diana is silent through the other questions, someone from the audience definitely coughs on the last one. I think I know. I think it's a Google. I'm going to play Google. Yeah. Paul was hoping to dismiss Adrian's concerns, but it sure seems like someone in the audience was helping Charles out. Paul knows that Celador has to make a stand now against any potential fraud or risk losing

the integrity of the show. Who will watch a game show if word gets out that people are cheating and winning? The show and his livelihood are at stake. So the way Paul sees it, he has no choice but to make a worldwide example out of Charles. The day after Charles' victory, he and Diana wake up in a luxurious room at the Langham, a five-star hotel in London that looks like a castle. Everything still feels surreal. Charles is probably already imagining what he'll do when he cashes that check. Get his family out of debt, buy a house, maybe even buy the girls

a pony. But before he reports to work, he and Diana are meeting up with some of the suits from Celador for breakfast, including Adrian. Charles and Diana are giddy as they sit across from him at the table. They expect to talk about how to handle announcing the win. But Adrian begins to ask a more targeted set of questions, like could Charles explain more about his counter-attack strategy, and why did he list the potential answers out loud over and over?

Charles tells Adrian that he wanted to take his time processing while also giving the audience something entertaining to watch. Eventually, Charles excuses himself to head to work. Diana goes home and calls her publisher about the book she's still working on. Now the publisher wants to update it with a whole new angle. They're going to change the title to Win a Million. And the story of Charles' win gets leaked to the tabloids, so by midday, there are photographers stationed outside their house.

But Charles isn't the biggest story of the day for long. Because just before 2pm London time, the first plane flies into the World Trade Center's North Tower. Two days later, Diana cashes the million-pound check, and she calls Celador to let them know about her upcoming book. They are not happy about it. And the next morning, Celador tells Charles they're going to delay airing his episode. He assumes it's because of the terrorist attack in New York. It would be a bad look to roll out a celebratory episode in the face of a global tragedy.

Charles and Diana have already cashed the check, so they're fine with whenever Celador chooses to air it. But a week after he wins a million, shit really hits a fan. Charles is sitting in his open plan office surrounded by his coworkers when he gets a message from Diana. She says that Paul, the Cellador managing director, wants to talk to him. Charles rings him up, probably expecting congratulations

and maybe to find out when his episode will air. But instead, Paul tells Charles that his win is under review. We actually have tape of the call. The first voice you'll hear is Paul, but listen to how Charles responds. This is the most British ass reaction I've ever heard in my life. I hate it. It is not normal.

I don't understand how this can be your response. Imagine being like, well, I do completely refute that. Yeah, thank you for the information. Toodle-oo. Well, the Ingrams are in a state of shock. The millionaire check is recalled from Charles' account. They call a lawyer for help, but this incident is about to spin way, way outside of their control. It's November, just a few weeks after Charles won the million and then had it taken away.

He's pouring himself a cup of coffee before heading to work. He's been trying to keep up with his usual routine ever since his millionaire appearance, but Cellador and ITV have announced that they're investigating him. The Ingram's boring suburban life has become the center of an explosive national scandal. The tabloids' coverage of their case is so obsessive, it even overshadows 9-Eleven. So this morning, when Charles hears shuffling outside his house, he figures it's probably more paparazzi. When he gets to the door, it's even worse.

It's the police. In the days after his call with Paul, Charles decided to go on the counterattack. He held a press conference demanding that Salador pay him his winnings and air the episode to prove his innocence and restore his reputation. But he got too emotional during the conference and it only made things worse. Someone took a very unfortunate photo of him and now the press is using it in every article.

Sachi, can you describe it? Yeah, he appears to be wearing a tie with, like, cursed rabbits on it, and his eyes are doing, like, boyoyoing eyes. He looks like he's emphatically trying to plead his case, but he just looks nuts. He looks so crazy. I feel bad for him.

The nasty tabloid press has been one thing, but now the harassment is spilling into real life. People cough at Charles wherever he goes, someone threw eggs at Diana and the girls while they were walking home from a party, and a few weeks ago, someone shot their cat Buffy with an air gun. She survived thanks to emergency surgery, but the whole ordeal has been a nightmare. And it's about to get even worse.

Because Celador doesn't want just a civil case, they're pursuing criminal charges, which is why the police are at their front door. Meanwhile, even more photographers, reporters, and camera crews set up outside. Then, Charles and Diana are brought in for questioning. For nearly four hours, the police grill Charles in agonizing detail. outside. Then Charles and Diana are brought in for questioning. For nearly four hours, the police grill Charles in agonizing detail.

Finally, the police bring up the name that's been circulating in the papers. They ask Charles about a person they believe to be his co-conspirator, Tecwen Whittick. Tecwen is a Welshman in his fifties with thin, sandy hair, metal-rimmed glasses, and no chin. He looks aggressively British. Diana's brother introduced her to Tecwin when she was trying to get on the show and they all shared tips for getting on. On the night of Charles' win, Tecwin was one of the potential contestants waiting in the wings.

And based on video footage and analyzing which mics picked up the coughs, the Celador producers believe that he was the one helping Charles. Tecwin appears to have coughed 19 times throughout Charles' questions, syncing up with when Charles read the correct answers out loud. That's a lot.

Like, there's not that many questions in a given game. Even if you have a cough, that is too many times to cough. You should not be in public if you're coughing that much, actually. Well, the police tell Charles and Diana their theory. They say they have phone records confirming that Diana called Tecwin after Charles's first day of taping. Diana claims it was to congratulate him since Tecwin was announced as one of the next day's contestants. But prosecutors will later argue it was to hash him since Tequin was announced as one of the next day's contestants.

But prosecutors will later argue it was to hash out the coughing scheme. Charles tells police he has never spoken to Tequin and that he didn't know Diana was talking with him. When they questioned Diana, the officer suggests she may have been having an affair with Tequin. But the two of them have never met in person, not even at the taping.

The whole thing is a disaster. Charles and Diana are finally released at 9 p.m. They find news cameras waiting for them outside. The day seems never ending, and it's clear that this mix-up is about to turn into a court case with more and more negative attention and even bigger legal fees. Charles and Diana now have to hope

they can get a fair shake in the court of law to clear their names and get their lives back. About 17 months after the millionaire scandal broke, writer John Ronson is sitting in the Starbucks by the London Bridge. John has a long face, a short Y2K haircut, and a posh accent. It's March 2003, and he's just come out

with a bestselling book about political extremists. He thinks that the coughing major case could be another splashy story. The Ingrams and Tequin are on trial in criminal court, which means that Charles, Diana, and Tequin could face prison time. This morning, John is waiting for Charles to make his daily, punctual 9.05 a.m. trip to the coffee shop. John has watched every day of the trial from the packed public gallery,

and it's already proven to be more entertaining than Millionaire itself. When the prosecution plays its tape of Tecwin's coughs, they sound deafeningly loud and come right on cue with the correct answers. It seems so obvious that the courtroom bursts into laughter. The prosecution actually thinks the coughs were Plan B. They suggest that Plan A was Diana's brother Marcus. Remember, he was there for the first night of Charles' taping, and he was caught making

phone calls twice. Prosecutors suggest that Marcus looked up answers and tried to signal them to Charles by calling a pager possibly hidden on Charles' body. But the prosecution says that after Marcus was caught with his phone, the Ingrams had to pivot. Every inch of this is so stupid. Not one part of this plan is actually that smart. It's all so dumb and so prone to falling apart and being caught.

While John has felt his sympathies flip-flopping throughout the whole case. On one hand, it seems like the Ingrams have been caught red-handed. But John also feels for Charles. A few days ago, a Celador employee testified that he frisked Charles after his win, but didn't find anything. When the barrister asked if the worker had searched Charles' crotch, the whole courtroom laughed. John noticed that Charles burst into tears.

So this morning, when Charles gets in line for his coffee, John asks him, Why did you cry then? Charles sighs. He says it was an overwhelming moment of realizing his life has been ruined and now it's being played out for entertainment. John may not think Charles is innocent, but he's starting to feel like this punishment

doesn't fit the crime. The defense does its best to fight back. Charles' attorney asks Chris, the millionaire host, whether he noticed anything unusual or suspected foul play. He says no. The attorney also points out that the footage of Charles' appearance has been edited and provided to the court by Selador,

the ones who pursued these charges. They claim Selador isolated the coughs in question to make them seem like more damning evidence. The lawyer also tells the court that Charles' military service and good family name mean everything to him. He wouldn't dare risk it all for a game show. Tequen's lawyers also bring in medical professionals to explain that he has a dust allergy and couldn't reliably cough on cue. And during the closing arguments, some members of the jury start coughing uncontrollably.

You might think they're making fun of the defendants, but it's actually more like how you can't control yawning when someone else yawns. They've been talking about coughing so much that everyone just starts doing it. I love that they have all listened to someone cough so much that they have developed this this paralinguistic cue to cough back so much. It's honestly kind of like when I watch too many videos of Jojo Siwa I'm scared I'm gonna start talking like her. And it's actually the second time during the trial that they've had to pause because people can't stop coughing. The judge dismisses everyone for the day so they

can compose themselves. On the day of the verdict, John watches as the three await their fate. Tequin stands emotionless while Charles and Diana hold hands. The jury comes back and finds all three guilty. Although Charles and Diana owe 50,000 pounds in fees, they will not be given jail time. The judge took into account the fact that the Ingrams' reputation had already been totally ruined. Even though Charles and Diana owe £50,000 in fees, they will not be given jail time. The judge took into account the fact that the Ingrams' reputation had already been totally destroyed when deciding their sentences. Their real sentence is clearer as they walk out of the courthouse.

Security guards force a path for Charles and Diana through the crush of press and onlookers who yell, cheat, and cough loudly at them. John is left unsettled. This all started with a game and now it's way too real. And he's probably wondering the same thing as Charles and Diana. What possible future is left for a couple who have been publicly shamed? Hello, I'm Hannah. And I'm Saruti. And we are the hosts of Red Handed, a weekly true crime podcast.

Every week on Red Handed, we get stuck into the most talked about cases. From Idaho student killings, the Delphi murders and our recent rundown of the Murdoch saga. Last year, we also started a second weekly show, Shorthand, which is just an excuse for us to talk about anything we find interesting because it's our show and we can do what we like. We've covered the death of Princess Diana, an unholy Quran written in Saddam Hussein's blood, the gruesome history of European witch hunting, and the very uncomfortable phenomenon of genetic sexual attraction. Whatever the case, we want to know what pushes people to the extremes of human behavior.

Like can someone give consent to be cannibalized? What drives a child to kill? And what's the psychology of a terrorist? Listen to Red Handed wherever you get your podcasts and access our bonus short hand episodes exclusively on Amazon Music or by subscribing to Wondry Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondry app. It's a bright, sunny morning in 2004 when Charles introduces his children to his new wife, Big Brother star Jade Goody. She's 21 years old, has a thick South London accent, her hair pulled back in a ponytail,

and a baby bump sticking out from under her white hoodie. This is not a permanent arrangement. Charles and Diana are on the reality show, Wife Swap. While Charles is having his meals cooked for him by English Snooki, Diana is begrudgingly going to the club with Jade's boyfriend. Charles and Diana are both humiliated by the show, but reality TV appearances are just about the only work they can get right now.

Charles was forced to retire from the military job he loved so much. And since then, the couple's notoriety has followed them everywhere. Along with their wife's swap, they do rounds on Weakest Link and Hell's Kitchen. Gordon Ramsay even serves Charles a throat lozenge. What might seem like innocent fun for the British public

is taking a horrible toll on Charles and Diana. Two weeks after the guilty verdict, ITV released a television documentary called Major Fraud detailing the case it presented in court along with the footage of Charles' run. It became the most watched non-fiction program in Britain since Princess Diana's funeral. Charles later says that, in the midst of their constant public shaming, he considered taking

his own life. He reportedly was saved by a text from his daughter. She wrote, We all have faith in you, Dad. Through it all, Charles and Diana maintain their innocence. Piers Morgan, who's the editor of the Daily Mirror at the time, offers them more than £600,000 to admit to the paper that they're guilty. They turn him down.

And John Ronson hasn't stopped thinking about what Charles and Diana have been through. Three years after the guilty verdict, he publishes a column in The Guardian with the headline, Are the Millionaire Three Innocent? He says that reviewing the facts of the case and knowing that Charles still vigorously denies having cheated has given him major doubts. And a few weeks later, John publishes So You've Been Publicly Shamed, a book about people who've been canceled in the internet age. But for Charles and Diana, there's only one way through a public shit storm.

Forward. Sometime in 2017, James Graham paces in a rehearsal room filled with stage actors. James is in his mid-30s with a boyish, freckly face. He's a celebrated playwright who feels at home in a theater. But right now, he's anything but comfortable. Although it's been almost 15 years since the Ingrams were front page news, James has recently written a play about them, and now the Ingrams want to talk to him.

James was in university when the millionaire scandal first broke. He followed a trial with his friends. Like almost everyone in England in the early 2000s, he felt like he knew the whole story. But recently, doubts started to creep in. John was one of the first to publicly admit that maybe Charles and Diana might be innocent after all. Former millionaire contestant James Plaskett would go on to co-write a book raising questions about the case as well. He told Charles and Diana's side of the story while pointing to the fact that

video evidence viewed in the trial was enhanced by Selador. Maybe Tequen's cough and Marcus's pagers were just coincidences after all. As a writer, James was instantly attracted to a story everyone thought they knew but might have gotten wrong. So he adapted it into a play exploring these doubts. And now the Ingrams are coming to visit the set. All eyes turn to Charles and Diana when they arrive in the rehearsal room. Charles is the first one to speak. He makes a joke, saying he knows exactly what they're all thinking. Did they do it? The Ingrams have lived this life for so long.

They know what people expect of them, and they say the same thing they've always said. They are innocent. The afternoon goes great. The actors aren't reporters. They're interested in the Ingrams' emotional experience. They ask in-depth questions about how Charles and Diana felt during the whole ordeal, and they get some great insight.

The Ingrams seem genuinely excited to have the chance to contribute. Towards the end of the day, Charles tells James that he has a surprise for him. He pulls out the ugly rugby polo he wore during his time on Millionaire. James is in awe. Charles says the lead actor can wear it during the show.

Wow, they should put that in a glass case and let it tour the world, frankly. I know, I was like, put that in a hard rock cafe. Mm-hmm. James' play called Quiz premieres on the West End in April 2018, and it has an interactive element. The first act follows a prosecution's case, the story the public knows.

Then the audience is directed to pick up a keypad and vote on the Ingrams' case. Majorities say they're guilty. But the second act presents the defense. It brings up how Selador provided the audiotapes for court, not the police. It talks about how Diana used her quizzing knowledge to train Charles for the show,

and that he's not some dimwit, he's actually a member of Mensa. At the end of the play, the audience is once again asked about the Ingram's guilt. As the results come through, there's a switch. A majority now selects not guilty. James' play is a national hit and a wake-up call. Was the public persecution of the Ingrams,

like so many things from the early 2000s, a huge mistake? James' play is adapted into a three-part mini-series starring Matthew McFadden from Succession. It airs in June 2020. The TV show's run is a great success, and guess where it airs? On ITV. The channel that turned the Ingrams into ratings gold

gets to profit off them at least one more time. where it airs on ITV. The channel that turned the Ingrams into ratings gold gets to profit off them at least one more time. To this day, we still don't really know whether Charles and Diana cheated or not. Selladors' Paul Smith maintains his belief that the Ingrams are guilty, but Charles and Diana still say otherwise. All around, everyone has stuck with their final answer.

And for our American listeners, good news, they're bringing back who wants to be a millionaire on ABC in summer 2024. My recommendation, bring a cough drop. Sachi, this is obviously a slightly different episode than what we normally do, because there is some level of doubt that these people are even scammers. And I'm so curious, based on the evidence presented to you today, what do you think?

I think they did it. It's too many coincidences. A pager, a mysterious phone, lots of coughing. Come on. But these people were weirdos. I mean, they treated Who Wants to Be a Millionaire like it was going to med school or something. Yeah, but at the same time, I feel like they were putting all of their eggs in that basket, and so they're almost more inclined to cheat because if they really do have big financial problems

and if they feel like they've gamed the system a bit, it feels like they would be the ones to try to do this scam because it's like to do all that work, you know, to have multiple people in the family get on the show, like, there's a ritual to it. Yeah. And if you are determined to win all this money, because it's going to get you out of like huge financial issues, then I kind of think you would be more inclined to rig it. It's like the kind of scam where they wouldn't have been able to do it on the first one.

But once they started like getting in the building more and getting a sense of how the show runs, then they can figure it out from there. It's so crazy, because I'm really of two minds about it. On the one hand, it's just too coincidental, but also, you know, it would have been really, really stupid to cheat that way. And I think a part of why anyone would even re-examine

the whole thing is because it became such a bigger story than it should have been. Like, they were punished far too hard for something like this. Their lives should not be upended. They shouldn't have gone to court in that way. They really became the laughing stock of their country for something that isn't that big of a deal. It is a TV show. Maybe the lesson is like, hey, if you love quizzes,

just do it at a bar. Do it at a pub. You know, win a Target gift card instead of trying to get a million dollars. Cheat in a low-stakes way. This is like a Nathan for you way to get out of debt. We'll train you to go on who wants to be a millionaire so that you will win money and get us out of debt instead of just being like,

hey, we're both smart people. Maybe we can get other jobs. Yeah, I don't want to sound like somebody's grandfather here, but like get a job. The lesson is get a job. Yeah, I think that is a very good lesson. And you know, if you're in debt, maybe don't give money to your deadbeat brother.

Yeah. I think the lesson is don't trust your brother. Wow. I'm so glad. I get really happy when we come to the real heart of the story and I think that's exactly it. Yeah. Thank you.

We found it. If you like Scamplincerz, you can listen to every episode early and ad-free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey. This is Who Wants to Scam a Millionaire. I'm Sarah Hagee. And I'm Saatchi Cole.

If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at scamfluencers at Wondery.com. We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were Bad Show, The Quiz, The Cough, The Millionaire Major by Bob Woffingdon and James Plaskett. So I Phoned a Friend by John Ronson, The the coughing major series from Wondery's British Scandal, and the major fraud documentary for ITV. Kyle Robby wrote this episode.

Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole, and Sarah Hagge. Eric Thurm and Sarah Enni are our story editors. Fact Checking by Meredith Clark. Sound Design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by AJ and Tapia. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Friisans Sync. Our managing producers are Desi Blaylock and Matt Gantt. Janine Cornelow and Stephanie Jens are our development producers.

Our associate producers are Charlotte Miller and Lexi Puri. Our producers are John Reed, Yasmin Ward, and Kate Young. Our senior producers are Sarah Enney and Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louie, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery. For more than two centuries, the White House has been the stage for some of the most dramatic scenes in American history. Inspired by the hit podcast American History Tellers, Wondery and William Morrow present the new book, The Hidden History of the White House.

Each chapter will bring you inside the fierce power struggles, the world-altering decisions, and shocking scandals that have shaped our nation. You'll be there when the very foundations of the White House are laid in 1792, and you'll watch as the British burn it down in 1814. Then you'll hear the intimate conversations between FDR and Winston Churchill as they make plans to defeat Nazi forces in 1941. And you'll be in the Situation Room when President Barack Obama approves the raid to bring down the most infamous terrorist in American history.

Order The Hidden History of the White House now in hardcover or digital edition, wherever you get your books.