Scheananigans with Scheana Shay - Dispelling the Myths of Maternal Wellness

Episode Date: August 23, 2024

This week, Scheana is joined in the studio by Nia Sanchez (Bravo’s “The Valley”) and clinical psychologist Dr. Jenny Yip (Author of “Hello Baby, Goodbye Intrusive Thoughts”) to discuss all things maternal mental health. Scheana & Nia get candid about navigating their struggles with postpartum disorders in front of reality TV cameras, while Dr. Yip provides feedback on the best ways to address these issues: What to look out for? When to seek help? Best treatment options? How can your partner be most supportive?  Other topics covered include the unique struggles of parenting multiples, the stigma around discussing pregnancies in the first trimester, girls being held to higher standards than boys (& data showing that they receive less allowance), the importance of self-maintenance over self-care, and why you should replace positive thinking with optimistic thinking. Plus, Nia currently has 3 kids under 3yo, but does she have plans to make it 4-under-4? Tune in to find out! Follow us: @scheana @scheananigans Guests: @realniasanchez @drjennyyip The video version of this episode will be available on Scheana’s YouTube page on Friday, August 23rd.  Hello Baby, Goodbye Intrusive Thoughts by Dr. Jenny Yip – Available at www.dryip.com.Sponsors:Go to hellobello.com/HONEY, to get 30 PERCENT OFF your first customized bundle, AND a full-size freebie product of your choice. Go to Knix.com and get 15% off with promo code GOODASGOLD.Go to DIMEBeautyCO.com now and get 25% off site-wide during their Anniversary Sale! Stock up on your favorites or try something new – but hurry the sale ends on Monday!Alterna is not just a product or brand, but a lifestyle upgrade. Go learn more and pick up some product at your local ULTA or on Amazon.com.Visit BetterHelp.com/goodasgold today to get 10% off your first month.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. I used to care so much about portraying a perfect life and acting like everything was okay when really things were far from it. I was secretly struggling with my mental health and wondering if other people were too. That's why I created RealPod. Hi, I'm Victoria Garrick-Brown, and every Wednesday I host the types of conversations that most of us only have in therapy. RealPod brings you the heart-to-heart moments

we all need to be having and will leave you feeling comforted no matter where you're at in life. So leave the filters at the door because it's time to get real. Tune into RealPod wherever you get your podcasts. From Vanderpump Rules to Motherhood and everywhere in between, it's time to catch up with Sheena Shea. This is Shenanigans. And now here's your host, Sheena Shea. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Shenanigans. I hope everyone is having a great summer so far.

So if you're a fan of Vanderpump Rules or you listen to this podcast regularly, you've likely heard me discuss my maternal mental health journey with postpartum OCD. And I have gotten so many people who have reached out to me over the last few years. And I just wanted to get into that a little more. So many people have said that either themselves, their sister, their friend have suffered similarly, but also never heard of postpartum OCD. So some have asked for some advice or resources in helping themselves or a loved one get help. So this week, I want to get into that a little deeper. And I feel like when we as women come together, you know, we are stronger.

We need to support each other, especially with things like this. So in that spirit, I've asked my dear friend, the beautiful Nia Sanchez, to join the discussion today. She is not only the epitome of beauty and grace, and I mean, she literally has the titles to prove it. Miss USA 2014, Miss Universe, First Runner Up. titles to prove it miss usa 2014 miss universe first runner up and also she has her fifth degree black belt in taekwondo which is so insanely impressive like i want to do one of those self-defense classes with you to a class it's so much fun literally yeah but also you so bravely discussed your postpartum journey on season one of The Valley.

I'm sure we'll see more of that on season two. So I just thought you being here to help co-host this episode with me would just add so much value to it. And also here to help guide our conversation and provide clinical insight on this important topic. We're joined by nationally recognized OCD, anxiety, and parenting expert, author of Hello Baby, Goodbye Intrusive Thoughts. Like, yes, I need more of that. I need that in my life too. It's a compassionate guide for new moms dealing with anxiety, OCD, and alarming thoughts. So please welcome clinical psychologist

Dr. Jennifer Yip. How we doing? Thank you for having me. I'm glad we're having this conversation. It's such an important topic and so often mislooked. Totally. So we recently met at the International OCD Foundation Conference in Orlando, and we had already had this podcast planned, but I was so excited that it worked out that we're doing it after we got to meet in person. And yeah, I got the illumination award at the conference. Yeah, really highlighting this to the public, because as you said, there's not much information on postpartum OCD and so many women gets misdiagnosed. I didn't even know. I had never heard of postpartum OCD until you were talking about it on the show. I had no idea. I had no idea until my therapist said to me,

have you ever been diagnosed with OCD? And I'm like, you know what? My whole life I've felt that I had OCD, but it reached a new level after I had summer and the intrusive thoughts got so much worse that I started looking for resources. You know, do I get on medication? Do I try EMDR therapy? Like what can I do to help this? And I feel like I've tried it all. I'm still on that journey, just figuring out what works best for me. But I just thought it was a really important topic to discuss on this podcast. I have mainly women following who a lot of them have grown with us. They've watched the show, they're parents now. And also, I know it's not just women who can struggle with postpartum you know I know it affects men as well which most people wouldn't think about so I just wanted to get into all things mental health yes and I feel like all the mamas need this resource yeah because there's so much

that we don't know so much to learn I feel like we can all have like really good takeaways to be able to like apply in our life because it's just wild. The postpartum period, I've had two separate postpartum periods after my son was very much rainbows and sunshine. And I was like living my best life. And then after my girls, I had, I didn't expect to be hit with so much emotionally and the thoughts and everything, because I had never experienced it the first time, but it was just a whole different experience. Yeah. So she had very close pregnancies, a son and then identical twin girls right after that. So now you have what three under three, three under three now for six months. I'm trying to go for four under four. We'll see if I get,

yeah, go girl. She's a super woman i watch her instagram stories and i see her with you know like her son in either the stroller or walking and then one twin here straps one on the back i'm like you do it all and she just always makes it look so graceful but i know it's like there's instagram, there's reality. And but it is both with you. I feel like, you know, you have a great life, a great marriage. You have three amazing kids. But also there's so much that comes with that. And it's not always easy. It may look easy and beautiful always on Instagram, but I know it's not always that way. So I also just kind of wanted to highlight that, you know, everything you see online, there's always so much more to the story.

Everything you see on TV, there's always more to the story. Oh, yeah. And I just thought it was important to get into all of that. Social media is a highlight reel for sure. Like even yesterday, I posted a lot of really pretty Instagram stories. I cried on the way to church. I was just like, I'm too tired and I'm overwhelmed and I can't do it. And then like, okay, you're out.

People are, you know, okay, smile, take a deep breath. We're ready, ready for the day, even though I was crying five minutes before. So it's just like social media is a highlight reel. And even when someone looks like they have it all together, very likely they don't. Yeah, it's that's just real life. No, totally. So how long until cameras were up for you? So for Asher, I was after the girls that we started filming. So it was after Asher,

my postpartum was great. I got pregnant though, 10 and a half months, like almost 11 months after he was born. So even for example, right now I'm slowly weaning and I had never experienced the hormonal dip that comes after weaning because I was breastfeeding and then I got pregnant and we still kept breastfeeding and then eventually weaned off, but I had the pregnancy hormones. So I'm even right now in a new stage where it's like, what am I experiencing in my mind? And you can probably tell me, but like, yeah. So if we rewind though, all the way back to after the girls, it was five weeks.

That's right. Okay. Yeah. Cause they were so right. They were so tiny. They were so little because twins as well. They're smaller when they're born. So they were five pounds, five ounces, five pounds, six ounces. And they kind of dropped weight. So they may be six pounds when we started filming.

And I think it was the pressures of being a twin mom with a toddler at home, the hormone surges, which you can tell me more about, tell us more about. And then also the pressures of filming and like trying to like do, I was just trying to do it all. And it wasn't possible. And then I had intrusive thoughts and I had just like, it was just like so much sadness.

It was hard to describe. And I was really afraid that it was my new normal. Like I didn't see a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm like, do I have to learn to function like this forever? Am I just always going to be sad? That's just how I truly felt. And I was actually a producer that was eight months postpartum and she was like, this is not forever.

You will get out of it. And I was like, are you sure? I don't think so. Like it was really, really, really hard. I was just so sad and like on the verge of tears all the time. As if anybody watched season one, they saw someone would like say one thing and I would just be like, instant tears. So yeah, I think, I think that's very normal for the postpartum period, especially being a new mama for twins. I mean, I remember that period in my journey, and that was insane. Because if you're breastfeeding, you're not just breastfeeding

one, right? And I remember calling my twin boys, they're like milk addicts. And I felt like I was just a milk factory. And that was all I was doing was trying to pump enough milk to support their weight. And there was no time for me, no time to think, no time to be, no time to remember anything except for I need to feed these boys. Because they were losing weight too because they were twins. The thing about the postpartum period is that, yes, you have your hormonal fluctuations. However, if you think about it, when we are new parents, what is our number one responsibility? Baby. Our baby, right? It's to protect our baby and ensure that they are healthy

and they're safe. And, you know, unfortunately, during this period is also the most vulnerable for the baby, right? And therefore, our minds are naturally going to be thinking more about potential dangers that can harm them. And if we're thinking those thoughts that are natural, however, then we are bothered by them or we feel bad about them, we feel guilty for why am I having such terrible thoughts, then that adds another layer of guilt. And guilt is the one thing that we don't need to have more of and the one thing that actually drives more intrusive thoughts. So if you think about it, you have your hormonal fluctuations. You have the added pressure of this newborn. You have the intrusive thoughts that come from all of the vigilance that you need to have for

the safety and protection of your newborn. And then you have no time for yourself to rest, to be, to think, to eat. So that's like the perfect storm, maternal unwellness is what I call it. Yeah, absolutely. And how long was it when you like? Days. Days. Oh, my goodness. I can't imagine.

I had only been home from the hospital three days before we started filming. Wow. Yeah. Summer was too young to even be on camera for the first week because the baby has to be 15 days. And she was only like eight days old when we started filming. I mean, imagine that pressure. No. Yeah. So then when and now I'm like remembering this, I was like, Asher, I'm like, oh, no, you did. You had the twins. I'm picturing us at Jackson Brittany's house. two little babies. You had a toddler. And I'm like, I mean, it was gnarly for me with one, but for you to have three just a few weeks after, I mean. That is crazy. Yeah, it was a lot. Wild. OK, we're going to take a quick little break. And then I literally I have so many questions for you. We'll be right back. If you're a new parent, a bad day means you either ran out of coffee,

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and sticking to seats. I mean, these shorts also work with any outfit. And that's why millions have switched to NYX. I have, okay? You've got to check them out. Go to knix.com and get 15% off with promo code GOODASGOLD. That's nyx.com, code GOODASGOLD for 15% off, K-N-I-X.com. Okay, so I wanted to ask you, Dr. Yeh, but do factors such as like having pregnancies with multiples, with twins or triplets, or having pregnancies within a certain window of time, does that increase someone's chances

of developing maternal mental health struggles? Unfortunately, there's no research to support that, of course, because there actually isn't enough attention on this topic, which is why I'm so happy that we're doing this because the more we bring light to this area, the more it will garner interest so that researchers will actually do more studies around this. Could that be possible? You know, sure, it could be. There could be.

There's certainly a correlation, but we don't really know, like, what direction. Is it because of the hormonal fluctuations? Is it because the more children you have consecutively without breaking between, the more your body just doesn't get back to baseline. And therefore, the more you're just used to all of the extra oxytocin that's in your body that produces more of that feel good, you know, emotions and the connection with baby. So unfortunately we don't have enough information on that and we need to. It's wild that in today's day and age, we don't have enough research and like how things are changing. Even from when I had Asher to when I had the girls with mastitis,

which I developed both times, a few times when I had Asher they said oh do lots of heat rub like the the lumps and everything and after the girl it's they said no it's inflammation we need to do you need to do ice packs and don't like do too much pressure and I'm like how in this day and age are we like oh we just discovered something new about something that women have been experiencing for all time yeah so it's like how do we not have that information? Well, I mean, here's the thing. We keep using the word maternal wellness. If you think about it,

how much attention is actually paid on us mothers, right? Even during prenatal visits, why did you have to go to prenatal visits? Not because the attention is focused on you and your well-being, the attention is focused on you and your well-being. The attention is focused on the growing fetus in your belly. And then everything that you're told during that period wasn't, are you well? Are you taking care of yourself? No, it's what you're doing wrong, what you can do better to make sure that your baby comes out healthy. And of course, our own attention is focused on the baby as well.

So therefore, there really isn't much attention paid on us. And then once the baby is born, who asks how we're doing? You get one checkup after six weeks and that's it. Six weeks. And literally, I've talked about this on the podcast before, you know, you fill out a questionnaire. And I even said this in my speech at the OCD conference, where you get asked these questions, you know, you check a box. Yes, no. And there were so many questions I lied about because I knew

it was not postpartum depression. I just knew it was something different. So I lied on the questionnaire. There was no follow up. There was nothing. Had I not opened up to my therapist about what was going on inside my head, finally, almost a year postpartum, I just would have thought there was something wrong with me. I didn't know what it was. And like, that's why I feel like so many women are afraid to speak out because you don't want people to think that that's what you actually want to do to your baby. It's just there's so much surrounding that. And, you know, here's the sad part is that not only is there a misconception overall, there's even a misconception and oftentimes misdiagnoses in the medical world, in the mental health world. So how many women have expressed their concerns

about their thoughts and then get hospitalized? Yeah. Right. 51-50. Or they're concerned because of the negative stigma or the horrific nature of their thoughts that their babies will be taken from them. Can you, just for me can you

share exactly like what to look out for or like what a diagnosis is of like would you say postpartum OCD you don't want to get yeah because I feel like maybe people listening might have an idea from listening to the podcast but I don't even know like exactly if I had a friend experience something like what do you look for? Right. Whether you're a partner or a friend. Yeah. Between postpartum depression, postpartum OCD.

Yeah. And baby blues. You know, I feel like there's so many where it's like, oh, it's just baby blues. And it's like, no, it's postpartum depression. No, actually, it's not that. It's postpartum OCD. Right. Perinatal OCD.

Or baby blues. Because I was like, I don't want to give it powers. I don't want to say I'm depressed. So it's just baby blues, but like it wasn't going away at like at all. I think that's the difference. I mean, that's the biggest difference is how much does it interfere with your functioning? Yeah. If you're still functioning, but you know, the stress and the lack of sleep and all of

that is interfering with your mood and you're, you know, sometimes feeling like you're not yourself. Okay. That's, that's naturally the baby blues. However, if you're afraid of connecting with baby or you don't want to connect with baby, that's something different. So to, to be more specific, postpartum OCD is when you have intrusive thoughts that you do not want to have. And that's a huge factor that a lot of people don't understand. You get horrific images about perhaps baby drowning, baby dying of SIDS, baby choking, you making a mistake somehow and causing harm to baby, or it could even have some like forbidden sexual thoughts. So, oh my gosh, I saw a baby's genitalia. Now I'm thinking about it. Oh my goodness, I must

be a pedophile. Oh my goodness, how terrible of me to have these thoughts. These are thoughts that a person with postpartum OCD does not want to have. It's very different than a person with postpartum psychosis, where these thoughts aligns with my value. And the person suffering from postpartum psychosis cannot tell the difference whether this thought is really a fabrication of my imagination or is it real? So there's a huge difference. And a person suffering from postpartum OCD wouldn't want these thoughts and therefore they generate a lot of anxiety. And then they want to do something about it. So we engage in compulsive behaviors, whether it's checking and cleaning, or it could even involve like magical behavior. So like, I remember if when I was going through my postpartum OCD, every night I would have to

go through my memory bank and I would have to make sure that every single thought I had was equal between the two boys. I understand that. And because my fear was that one day, if I treated them differently, then somehow I would cause them emotional damage because I favored one more than the other. So that was my postpartum OCD. Now, that's not very common, right? That's not common OCD compulsions. These are like the magical compulsions that we can engage in in order to get relief, to feel better, to make sure that our intrusive thoughts, the fear that we have won't come true. Now, postpartum psychosis, you don't have the compulsions. You don't have the, I need to you don't have the compulsions. You don't have the, I need to undo this fear in order for something to prevent something bad from happening. The person with postpartum psychosis actually

believe in the thoughts. Yeah. I have a family member that had postpartum psychosis and it was a really, really hard time for our family trying to support her and then turned into bipolar and it was like a whole thing with medication and um it was probably like a year but I imagine it was maybe even a combination of things because I remember moments where she you know she was on so much medication so she was very zoned out and I remember feeding her bait her feeding her baby with a bottle but but not looking at the baby, you know, not making that connection, just like staring off into the distance. And I feel like no, I don't know anyone that talks about postpartum psychosis because maybe it's more rare, but that's just how it is. So would the kind of step up be like baby blues, postpartum depression, OCD, postpartum psychosis? Not necessarily.

A lot of women with postpartum OCD experience depression. So you might have experienced it, Sheena. I know I definitely experienced it. However, you experience it as a secondary, right? Because if I'm having these terrible thoughts and I'm judging myself because of these terrible thoughts, then naturally I'm going to be depressed and I'm going to feel terrible about who I am as a mother and what kind of person would I be? Why would I have these children? You know, you'll go down that slippery slope into never, never land with all of the what if thoughts. So for postpartum OCD, the depression is usually secondary. Now, there is also postpartum anxiety, which postpartum anxiety is not as intense as postpartum OCD.

However, you're constantly judging yourself about how you're doing as a mother, whether you're feeding the right amount, whether you're bathing them properly, whether you're diapering them properly. So it's almost like you're constantly giving yourself a performance review to see how well you're doing as a mother. So postpartum anxiety, there's a lot of worries and ruminations. And, you know, I call it the ruminato in my book where you're constantly just ruminating about all of the possible things that you might not be doing as a mother to be the best mother you can be. Now, do you think people who suffer from anxiety or OCD or depression before they even get pregnant? Do you think that factors into it, you know, just being that much stronger after you have the baby? Yeah, absolutely. It's definitely a vulnerable period. If you have experienced any mental health conditions pre-pregnancy, it's really important to be more cautious and more

vigilant about it during your pregnancy period and perhaps getting that extra skill set, getting that extra tool so that you learn to manage it when the experiences, when the feelings and the thoughts occurs. My doctor told me to have like a therapist ready because she was like, just be prepared. Have someone that you already have a relationship with because that will be like an extra tool in your tool belt. Absolutely. Just in case. Yeah.

I had a friend of mine who got depression while she was pregnant. Yeah. She was like six months pregnant. And all of a sudden she was like, I feel like I need to go on medication. I hope this doesn't happen, you know, after I have the baby. And it was like, it was really scary for her. So what would you say are some of the best treatments or medications for someone who's experiencing that during pregnancy and postpartum? That's something I experienced. Yeah. And I never, ever, ever heard of women experiencing depression during pregnancy.

Never had I ever heard of it. I did not know it was a thing. And I pulled tears for no reason. Daniel would be like, what's wrong? And I was like, nothing. And just like, but I'm so sad and I can't get the sadness out of me. And I'm such like a positive thinker. And like, I just, if I can just think positively enough, maybe it will go away. And there was nothing I could do. And it was like three months and it was so overwhelming. And I felt so alone because I had never in my life heard anyone talk about depression while being pregnant. And then I had the intrusive thoughts of like, is my sadness going to affect my baby? Will my baby be sad? Because I'm, I can't get rid of the sadness.

And then like my baby was crying a lot when he was first born. I was like, was it my fault? Because I was... You see how much pressure we put on ourselves. Yes, totally. But why do we put this pressure on ourselves? We have... Natural.

Come on. If you think about it, 10 years ago, even 10 years ago, we would all congratulate each other for being super mom for being a super woman right and so society has this expectation of women to do it all to be everywhere to be everything and because society has this expectation of us we put this expectation on ourselves. We assume these responsibilities and then we blame ourselves when we feel like we failed. Just because we, I don't know, gave the baby not enough milk. I don't know, whatever, right? For the smallest

things, we will blame ourselves. We will add guilt onto our plate and i don't know any men sorry dad's out there i don't know any men who would be able to go through the experiences and the pressures that we have on ourselves and you know the the pregnancy period the prenatal period is you know especially the first trimester is the most important period. And if you think about it, how much support do we give each other when things don't go well? Are we even supposed to talk about it? I went through a miscarriage during the first trimester, but you're not even supposed to disclose anything.

You're not supposed to talk about your miscarriage. You're not supposed to talk about your miscarriage. You're not supposed to talk about if something terrible is happening. You're not even supposed to disclose you're pregnant during the first trimester. Why? Why do we do that? Because then if the worst happens, then you have resources, you have support, you have help. But it's like there's this stigma around it. It's like you can't talk about it before 12, 13, 14 weeks do we do that why do we add that pressure onto ourselves so that we can

appear perfect yeah we're not perfect we're human we're going to go through these experiences there are not all going to be beautiful pregnancy might not feel blissful and it's okay and we should and i hate using the word should except this is a big should here we should be able to talk about these things without feeling terrible about ourselves because the support system is the most important barrier to mental illness absolutely we're going to take another quick little break and be right back. So y'all have been hearing me talk about how much I'm loving the clean and affordable skincare

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even you know this book is written for moms overall it was inspired by my own postpartum journey. And here's the thing. Before I had children, before I got pregnant, I was already working with mothers going through postpartum OCD and anxiety and perinatal mental health, except I never believed that I would suffer it because I had OCD ever since I was a little girl and I thought I managed it and now I'm an expert and it's not going to faze me. And you know what? Here's how daunting OCD can be and how daunting the postpartum period can be is that because you don't have your mental you know bandwidth you kind of just get lost during that period so while I was crying myself to sleep at night and every little thing like you said I was tearful my husband was I always had to tell him you can't put that on tv you can't put you know whatever anything having to do with children being harmed. Oh my goodness. It would throw me into a spiral. Yeah. And I didn't realize how devastating this

period was for women in general. So this book was inspired by that. And as I was writing, you know, yes, new mothers need the help and the resources. However, I've been a mother for almost eight years now. I feel like I still need to read some of my own advice. Just this morning, getting my boys to school, I'm like, I can't do this anymore. Because of the pressure, having to get them ready, having to get them to school, then all the, you know, shenanigans that happened. And it was just all too much.

And, you know, in my book, I talk about how to deal with intrusive thoughts, how to do less with the perfectionism and the mom guilt that we experience. I talk about how we have our perfect household disease, which we all have because we all want a perfect household. My house is a mess. Even with cameras around, I'm like, welcome. I can't. That's your reality. I literally cannot. I just three children throwing toys everywhere all day. I clean up when they nap and I clean up when they're in bed. I can't clean up. But you know what? I'm very proud of you for that because I know we're similar in that way where we do always want to paint the pretty picture and have everything look perfect. And it's like sometimes that's just not realistic. I just got to say so good for you. But I do. I want my house to be clean. But now I'm just like

sometimes you've just got to, you know gotta you know whatever yes and i'm trying to let a little more loose with my daughter and even just her getting dirty like i had the teachers at her school pull me aside the other day and say she was afraid to go in the sandbox because she had white shoes on that day and she didn't want to get them dirty because mommy tells her not to like get her socks dirty and i'm like well yes i do tell her she doesn't need to play outside in her white socks take your socks off put your crocs on you know so i've now had to tell her honey it's it's okay you know you can get dirty and it's like that's me having to let go of a little control yeah if she's painting at school yeah you know she's not gonna

have her little smock on she's gonna maybe yeah not the smock the smock but um it's like i've had to let go of that control a little bit i'm like you know what it's okay she gets dirty it's okay it's okay it's okay you kind of have to because the more you try to maintain that facade the more pressure you're adding onto yourself. And then of course, it's not always going to be this way. And then you're, right? You're, I can't, I can't. And then you get into a burnout phase. And that burnout period is terrible to feel because that's when mom rage occurs. That's when you're teary all the times. That's when you don't have the emotional bandwidth, emotional resources for your family. And if you're not well,

your family's not well. Because the truth is, even if you have a partner who is equally involved, equally involved, they're not going to care as much as we are. And that's also because we've been brought up to care about our family and our home. If you even look at the research that's been done on that, do you know that boys and girls, even if they live in the same household with the same rules, with the same chores, girls are usually compensated less in allowances than boys. No way. Yes way. Wow. No.

Oh my goodness. And on top of this, when boys don't complete their chores, they're more overlooked than girls. Interesting. they're more overlooked than girls girls get reprimanded more for not completing their chores where boys are like oh it's okay you can do it later boy so I mean you've got girls and boys you can decide you know how how you're going to pay attention to that yeah but when this research is shown to parents, most parents aren't even aware of this. I imagine.

You know, so it's just like innate reactions that we have toward how we raise girls and how we raise boys. I'm very conscious of that. And I feel like as like a twin parent too, like I definitely had the like, I feel like my heart would be breaking when I would look at the girls and I would look at one and be like talking to her. And then the other one would

look at me and then I'm, but then I had to break contact. I contact with one baby to look at the other baby. And I'm like, I'm a terrible, I can't give them both. And then you have Asher in the background. Exactly. Oh my gosh. It's so much. Well, I know you and I are both, Sheen and I are both like really big advocates of like moms taking care of themselves so that we can be a good mom yes so like what is your I like if you could tell a mama that's listening that's maybe having a hard time like what can moms do to like really take care of themselves like little things big things and to help the mom girl yes yeah so well first of all let's get rid of the term self-care.

Okay. Okay. Because that's been overused. And who's listening? Yeah. Let's get some new words out there. So here's the thing. When you think about self-care, it sounds optional.

Self-care, I'm caring about myself more than my family. It's a luxury. Right. It's a luxury. It sounds like a privilege. And then that adds guilt because you feel like you're taking time out for yourself instead of giving more time to your family. However, what if I say what you have to focus on is self-maintenance?

I like the difference. It's a difference, right? So like your vehicle, do you take it in to, you know, change the oil? Do you fill it up with gas every week? Yes, you do. You might even take it for a car wash or vacuuming all the sand from the car right inside. So these are the maintenance that you have to take care of for your car. Because if you don't, what happens? It's going to break down. It's going to fall apart. It ain't going to work. Yes. Well car because if you don't what happens it's gonna break down gonna fall apart yeah yes well how are you different yeah so you have to take that time to maintain your wellness whether it's making sure that you're

you're even taking five minutes a day just to be just to reflect just to breathe that those five minutes might be the best five minutes of your day however you need it so replacing self-care with self-maintenance is super important number two boundaries how many of us realize that boundaries doesn't just consist of physical boundaries we also have mental boundaries and we have emotional boundaries and unfortunately still today there are many opinions out there about what you should and shouldn't do what are your breastfeeding they are so ready to share yes yes i'm gonna ask for your opinion but you want to tell me. Yes. So with all of those unwelcomed opinions, you have to establish your boundaries, your mental, your emotional boundaries

from them. And also when we talk about mental, emotional boundaries, we have to establish mental, emotional boundaries with ourselves. So what does that mean? When we're feeling guilt, ourselves so what does that mean when we're feeling guilt when we feel like we're not doing enough when we feel like we're not perfect enough we have to have boundaries with well why do we feel that way why is this important you have to reflect and take time to really delve into those deep-seated insecurities that we have as women. And if it's okay to give them another dinner of McDonald's, oh well. If it means that I have more emotional bandwidth to be with my children rather than making a full cooked meal, then that's what you do. You have to prioritize what's important to you

and if connecting with your children is your number one priority then that's the boundary that you have to establish you know not not making sure your house is clean because i don't think your children cares right what are your houses really clean that's so important and just like I'm even thinking about like last night I did like so much meal prep for the kids like egg bites and made waffles and like all these things making them from scratch and then I picked up the whole house to like have a good Monday but then I didn't get enough sleep then I'm not taking care of myself because I want to set everything up for the kids like I have to like I've really been trying to like set a hard like stop cleaning by 10 or like something because all of a sudden it's midnight

and I know I have to be up at whenever the kids wake up at 536 and it's just, yeah. Yeah. You're giving me some good advice right now. Boundaries, like priorities, all of that. Yeah. Boundaries is something I'm trying to be better about too. I feel like I struggle in that department. And also going back to the opinions of everyone, I wanted to ask you how long technically is the postpartum period? Because I had opened up about everything I was experiencing on season nine of Vanderpump Rules. None of that was really shown. And then a year later, we started talking about my OCD. And that's been now a part of my story the last couple of years. But I've had so many people be like, oh, your daughter's two. She's two and a

half. You should be over that by now. Oh, postpartum. And I'm like, well, I did talk about it the first year. You just didn't see a lot of it unless you listened to my podcast you wouldn't know what I was struggling with so how long technically is the postpartum period and do you think it can never fully go away or just be maintained yeah well first of all those comments are terrible yeah because again they're your business and you know you're allowed to disclose whenever you feel like you're ready to disclose. And just because a woman discloses later on doesn't necessarily mean that she isn't experiencing the suffering during that time. So the postpartum period technically is the days after birth till a year after birth. Though we all know just because that is technically the postpartum period, if you're not taking care of your mental health,

it will spiral and it will worsen over time. Because here's the thing, and especially with anxiety and OCD, the evidence-based treatment for it is exposure therapy. It's not avoidance therapy. No. It's exposure therapy. And what exposure therapy basically means is that I am going to confront my fears in a contained environment, in a safe environment, at the pace that I'm ready to go. However, when you are exposing yourself to your fears, there's two things that you tackle that you gain from it. The first is that you gain the feedback that I actually can handle this situation.

It's not, you know, I have the resources, I have the confidence. So you're building more resilience and tolerance for this discomfort. The second benefit that you get from exposure therapy is that you get the corrective feedback that this terrible consequence might not be as terrible as you imagine it to be. And the problem with avoidance is that whenever you avoid, you never get that corrective feedback. In fact, not only are you not getting the corrective feedback, you actually empower the thoughts even more. You give them more magnified significance than what they really deserve.

And therefore, they're going to be even scarier. So if you have a fear of, is this going to last forever? And you avoid confronting that, then yes. I have so many fears. Yes. And I'm like, oh my gosh, we could talk about the list. You know, whatever are the intrusive thoughts that you had the fears that you had the more you avoid them because yes they're daunting however the more we avoid them the the more power they get the less we feel about ourselves the less resilient we we feel and that's what turns it into a spiral so you have to face it you just carefully care well you're like toe into it i mean i had to the exposure therapy i did i had to do on myself or no different than any of the ones that i would subscribe or or you know prescribe to my patient yeah which is you have to think of the worst. And for me, the worst was me doing something where I'm

favoring one more than the other, and then the other dies of some horrific death. So I had to write narratives, write scripts about the harm that I caused to my boys and them dying, one of them dying of this horrific death and then the other one hating me forever because i caused this right that's what we all fear and then i had to put it on an audio and i looped it and i had to listen to it again and again and again and again until i was able to tolerate it and a lot of people think exposure therapy is harsh or it's causing trauma. And let me just explain, let me clarify this because this is important. You're not generating any new material in your brain than what you're already thinking.

Right? I'm not saying I want you to purposely make up this new thought in your exposure therapy no i'm asking you to write out exactly what you're already thinking what you're already fearing and then replay those images or replay the audio again and again and again until you grow tolerance to it the other misconception is that you have to do exposure therapy to the degree where you're happy with it or you're okay with it. And that's not the point. I will never be happy with my children dying. I will never be okay with me favoring one boy over the other where I'm to be blamed. However, I do exposure therapy because I am more resilient for it. I am more tolerant of the intrusive thoughts that I have because of it,

not because I enjoy the process, not because I agree with the thoughts, but because now I can deal with it. So the example that I often give to my patients and when I speak about this is, if I asked you, don't think of the yellow duck, don't think of the yellow duck, don't think of the yellow duck, what are you doing? Thinking of a yellow duck. You're thinking of the yellow duck.

And I asked you not to think of the yellow duck, right? And that's what happens when we tell ourselves, don't think of this this don't think of that yeah yeah we're thinking of it spirals exactly however what if i say i want you both to do nothing except think of the yellow duck yellow duck yellow duck yellow duck yellow duck yellow duck yellow duck yellow duck yellow duck my voice is probably sounding boring now right because you just get so used to the yellow dog that it becomes boring. And that is the point of exposure therapy. And that is the evidence-based treatment for OCD as well as

anxiety disorders. I want to get into a little more about that and then ask you about medication. We're just going to take one last quick little break. This episode of Shenanigans is also brought to you by BetterHelp because that is what all of us need. We need something better. We need some help with that mental health therapy. I cannot express how important it is. It has been life-changing for myself, for Brock. We recently started couples therapy to just kind of figure out our parenting differences and better ways to communicate with each other. We've both been in individual therapy. And Brock started with BetterHelp when I started talking about it on this podcast. He's like, whoa, wait, I want to try that. You're in therapy. I want to be in therapy too. And now we're in therapy together. So if you're thinking of starting

therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. You just fill out a brief questionnaire and then you get matched with a licensed therapist. And here's a great thing. You can switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. I feel like therapy is so helpful for learning just like positive coping skills. How to set boundaries has been a big one for me and it empowers you to be the best version of yourself. It isn't just for those who've experienced major trauma. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash good as gold today to get 10% off your first month.

That's betterhelp.com slash good as gold. Okay, so we were talking about exposure therapy which I have done firsthand one of my biggest fears was doing anything alone with my daughter and so then I started doing so many things alone with her I would take her to the mall I'd take her to Target I took her to freaking Disneyland which I know you've done but I'm like for me that was like huge and now it's like I'm upset right now but I'm like I'm so proud of myself because I'm not as afraid when I do things by myself with her anymore. But it's like, I still have the intrusive thoughts. And I go back and forth with, do I want to be on medication? Should I not? Should I just keep trying to be strong? And so I wanted to ask you, are you on medication right now? And what do you

recommend? Like, when do you think like yeah maybe you should yeah I'm not on medication but I just also want to say I've seen you do that and it's like so beautiful to see you push through your fears and I even remember those like little music classes we did in Venice Beach a little bit and I remember you telling me you were so afraid to take her to a class by yourself and how big it was for you. And I didn't realize what you were experiencing at the time, but now like learning, you know, getting to know you more and all that is just like such a big thing. And I, I think it's so inspiring for other women to know, like you can do it even though it's hard and it's scary and you have the thoughts,

like you're living proof that you can do it. So I love that. I never got on medication. I'm very much, unfortunately, maybe like a grit your teeth and push through it kind of thing person. I did get a therapist and all of that, which really helped. But it was like it was eventually faded away. Yeah. And it, you know, it took a few months, but I was able to like move past that like depression season. what is the medication kind of? Well, I mean, I think there it's really a personal choice and it really depends on how much you're functioning. If you're functioning and you can push through with exposure therapy, exposure therapy is actually the first line treatment for anxiety and OCD. So if you can find a therapist who can help you go through the nuts and bolts of it, however, then also it's not just about the surface fear. We have the underlying core fears that we also have to tackle. And unfortunately, not many therapists are knowledgeable enough to know.

You have to also go down to the underlying layers of the fears. That's what my therapist wants to do. I'm like, I don't want to go all the way back to my childhood. Leave me alone. You don't have to go back to your childhood. It's not about going back to your childhood. Some of them are for me. It's more of like, okay, if all of your fears came true, what would be so terrible about that?

And then whatever that is, is there something that's worse than that? And then whatever that is, you keep going as far down as possible to the deepest, darkest layer of your fears. And then that's what you do the exposures to. It's to those deepest, darkest layers. And that is the hardest part of exposure therapy. All of the things that you do initially, like, you know, for me, it was not putting bottles into the sanitizing, you know, that gadget thing that you throw all the bottles in it was just letting them air dry and and then not checking on my boys when i checked on my boys i had to actually put my hands on their chest like just seeing their chest rise and fall wasn't enough i actually had to feel

it it was not doing that it was not even going in and checking on them just trusting that they're still alive because i see it in the in the baby camera you know and then eventually it was like not even using the baby camera because women you know she'll be 17 and still have a monitor in her room so it's it's those are the baby steps that we take initially however that's really still the superficial layer yeah what's underneath all that fear like if our if some terrible consequence happened to our children what would that mean about us that is what we have to do the exposure therapy to and of course if we can't do in vivo exposure which is like you said said, you know, taking her to Disneyland and taking her to places.

Taking the breathe wear off her and not monitoring her breaths all night long. Yeah. So so that's in vivo. However, not everything is in vivo. So like for me, I mean, I couldn't do exposures to actually harming one child so that we have to do that through scripts and audio loops. And then if you're someone who you can't tolerate the exposures, then there is medications. We don't have research that shows that medications are going to cause harm during the prenatal period. So that is a possibility. However, you know, it's important to consult with your psychiatrist to ensure that that is your best option. But if you can do exposure therapy, if you think about it, doing exposure therapy and changing the way that you think. So even for

depression, the evidence-based treatment is cognitive behavior therapy. Cognitive behavior therapy and exposure therapy is a type, is a subset of cognitive behavior therapy. However, CBT basically means we're going to teach you the flaws in your thinking, because we all have flaws in our thinking, whether we're aware of it or not. So it's to identify the flaws in your thinking so that you're able to recognize it and adjust your thoughts more accurately. And then the B, the behavioral part is teaching you ways to engage with your environment, with your world in healthier ways rather than maladaptive ways. So for those of us with OCD and anxiety, maladaptive ways. So for those of us with OCD and anxiety, we engage with our world by avoidance.

That's not healthy. That's actually going to make it worse. We give credence to our intrusive thoughts, which empowers the thoughts even more and actually makes the OCD cycle go even faster. I feel like I'm getting anxiety thinking about it because then I'm thinking about my thoughts that like, oh, I have so many. Yeah. Right. That feel crippling and things that we don't do. And I like just because I want to be safer and I feel like it's not safe. So we can't do it. So like only one child at a time. We have three. We have three kids and two adults. So it's not like we just my mind's spiral sometimes. Right, right, right. So from what you're saying, you know, it sounds like that you do worry a lot about their safety and their well-being, which most parents do as well.

The question is how much of your time is spent on it? You know, so it's natural for all parents to be worried about their children. However, if it impedes on your ability to parent effectively or impedes on the child's functioning because you're constantly ruminating over what might go wrong, then that's going to interfere with your functioning. And then that's when you get diagnosed with an anxiety disorder. you get diagnosed with an anxiety disorder so what you could be experienced might be postpartum anxiety and depression is naturally the secondary or it could be a combination of the two yeah which a lot of you know new parents experience yeah i have a question going all the way back to like the postpartum period because to me it's mind-blowing that like medically it's diagnosed or

like said that it's just the first year because from my understanding and I haven't like done the research but from like what I've seen like even as women our bodies if we've carried a baby like hormonally and like all like the nutrients that are in our bodies don't fully return back to baseline after one year so we still are sometimes it doesn't fully return back to baseline after one year. So we still are. Sometimes it doesn't ever return to baseline. Exactly. So like we're still experiencing depletion, like maybe we're breastfeeding up to two years. I wonder if like maybe that window to one year might change because even as between when I fed Asher to announce when I'm feeding the

girls, apparently the American board of whoever, somebody said that you should breastfeed your baby up until one year if you choose to do that. And then now they say, oh, there's benefits to breastfeeding your baby up to two years. And I'm like, how did what? What in the world? How are these things just changing now? If this is like common knowledge stuff, like why wouldn't it have changed like 50 years ago? Like there's there wasn't a time while. So I think postpartum period is longer than a year even though i agree the medical community doesn't like you say that you know like our our hormones our nutrients our minerals like

our body's not back to normal after a year no especially for breastfeeding and all of that yes i agree yeah but let's let's think about. Who do you think do most of these research? Probably men. Okay. They don't know. They've never experienced. Right. Okay. Speaking of men, I have read some things about men experiencing postpartum depression. So I did want to ask about that. Postpartum depression, postpartum OCD. Absolutely. Yes, hormones play a part in what we experience. However, if you think about it again, the weight of the responsibility falls on your partner's

shoulder as well. So if you happen to be a father, a new father, and you already have vulnerability for depression or OCD or anxiety, then of course, this is a critical period for you as well. And it's easy for you to slip back into that OCD, depression, anxiety state of mind. So yes, it can happen to both women and men, which is why we know postpartum mental illness isn't just hormones. It's that sense of over responsibility that's natural for all women. That's kind of what I wanted to ask, too, is if you know you get a surrogate, can you still experience those same postpartum things that are obviously not hormone based? Because if we do have another child that's our only option other than adoption so I'm like how is that going to be for me when I've already connected with a baby inside of me I've also lost a baby but now I'm gonna put the baby inside

someone else and like I still think I'm gonna have postpartum OCD and anxiety and who knows what else so that's not hormonal no it's not. And that is a very real possibility because you care. So let me just say one thing. A lot of women who suffer from postpartum OCD and anxiety feel like they must be bad mothers and the truth is you suffer because you care OCD tackles whatever it is that you care about and of course during this postpartum period or even perinatal period the most important thing that you care about is your newborn or your fetus, right? Your baby. So if that's what you care most about, then boom, OCD is going to tackle all that. And that's going to be true whether you have a surrogate or you choose to carry the baby yourself. Yeah. I feel like it might even be worse with a surrogate

because I'm going to be like, what are you eating? It's not in your body. You know, it's like, that's, you are right. How do I just put that in someone else and just trust that in nine, 10 months from now, like everything's going to be okay. Right. Like, I don't know. I'm not there mentally. Right. We're meeting with the fertility specialist at the end of this month to fertilize the eggs that I froze.

See if any of those can, you know, be a viable embryo. If not, we'll go through another round of freezing eggs, making embryos. But I'm like, that's just like one step. Like mentally, I am so not there to be like, oh, okay, we'll go through another round of freezing eggs, making embryos. But I'm like, that's just like one step. Like mentally, I am so not there to be like, oh, OK, we have embryos. Let's let's get a surrogate. I'm like, I still need to figure out if you're ready. I can do that. If I'm a one and done, I'm very happy with my life right now.

Maybe we adopt. Maybe we adopt an older kid. Maybe we don't get a newborn. Like there's so many things. And it's like people constantly are asking, when are you having another? When are you having another? When it's like, I've just started lying. And I'm like, soon, we're going to start trying soon.

Because then they stop asking. If I say I'm not, and then I have to go into, oh, I have a health syndrome and traumatic labor. And just like so many things that I've learned. Either just be like, nope, done. Yes. Or yeah, we're going to try soon. Yeah. Like everyone has an opinion on your body and your life and that blows my mind like if i have friends that say they don't want kids i'm like oh good for you yeah live your life you live your

life right i don't have to tell you how i think you should live your life i don't know why it's not for everyone you should do that agreed agreed yeah, you have to be ready for it mentally, emotionally. Yeah. And that means going through the process. And perhaps if that's the route that you take, even going through the process of, okay, if you do choose to have a surrogate, what would be like your worst fear about it? What would be the worst thing to happen from it? And then to prepare yourself

by writing these scripts. You know, one thing that I tell a lot of moms to do is what I call the 15 minute worry time, because we naturally worry, right? You give yourself a period of time to worry. Yes. Yes. So like for 15 minutes, once or twice a day, whenever you find time is you you take a pen or pencil and piece of paper not typing and you actually write and you're writing your worries not ruminating writing your worries so i'm worried about my children's health period i'm worried that if they don't get the nutritional value then they won't be their best self period period. So, you know, if you hear it, it's like, it's like a, it's not a runaway train where if you're ruminating, it's a runaway train. Yeah. Whereas if you're writing these worry statements, it's like a train that stops at every

station. And if you're able to write these worries out, I guarantee you, you're going to run out of worries before that 15 minute is up. And if that 15 minute is up and you're out of worries, what you have to do is keep writing until that 15 minute is up. And then how is this helpful? Well, number one, you're externalizing your worries. You're not keeping it in here. It's actually on paper.

If you're able to see what your worries are, you're more able to work with the worries rather than keeping it in your head and ruminating. And you're setting aside specific times to do your worry. Because if you're going to worry anyways, why not take control over it by deciding when you're going to do it rather than letting it spontaneously occur like an IV drip of worries into your veins? Oh, my gosh. I love this.

I'm going to go home and write down all my worries. Yeah. I have a lot. And I think it would actually help to get it out and like list them because it just it is kind of like an IV drip and it's just kind of here and there. And then like I never actually fully think through it because again like positive thought girl like i just like trying to move we're so similar in that yeah but then it still just comes into my head and i i think if i just wrote them all out it would be like what is it cathartic therapeutic yeah but we both write them all down and then we compare? Yes.

Yeah. Probably have a lot of similar ones. I literally, even when my girl started eating foods, like I was so chill with Asher. Yeah. I'm like, eat whatever. You're good. You're a kid. You know what you're doing.

Terrified of like everything. Had to make everything the exact perfect texture and like chop the right way and like still was scared. And it was like, why? I was good with the first one. Yeah. Why am I terrified now yeah yeah I felt like that's where my intrusive thought started was right around six months I mean I was terrified of dropping her her I had a gnarly dream when I was pregnant that her

head fell off and I picked it up and put it back on and it was fine that was the first like real intrusive thought I had and I was sleeping I woke up and I was like oh my god so in that time you know while they can't hold up their own head I was terrified but then I had. And I was sleeping. I woke up and I was like, oh, my God. So in that time, you know, while they can't hold up their own head, I was terrified. But then when she started eating, I was like, oh, my God, she's going to. And then it was like that's when I finally opened up to my therapist between six months and a year. I'm like, I'm afraid of her choking. But then at about a year, it was like, OK, well, now I'm afraid of her falling down the stairs. Now I'm afraid of this. And that's so many it just spiraled yeah and and that's exactly as i was saying if you don't attend to your thoughts if you avoid it then they're just going to keep

spiraling over time do pete have you ever talked to anybody about having intrusive dreams because my poor husband it is like the middle of the night 2 a.m whatever who knows what time and i'm dead asleep and then i have like a like very quick like the baby's falling off the bed or something even though there's no baby in our room they sleep in their own cribs and i jump up and i grab him like the baby and then he's like what is happening this literally happens at least two times a week no my poor husband he's like you woke me up at 3 a.m and i couldn't go back to bed. Do you ever talk to anyone about that?

It happens to me so often. It's terrible. I mean, we dream about things that we worry about. Yeah. You know, so I wonder if you work on those worry times,

like if you did it twice a day, you know, for a week, are you going to start seeing less of those dreams? Hopefully, because my poor husband, literally last night, he was like, you woke me up at 3.30 because I, this one, are you going to start seeing less of those dreams? Hopefully, because my poor husband.

Literally last night, he was like, you woke me up at 3.30 because this one, it's always something new. I think I had a dream that someone had the baby and it was a stranger. And I just like, get the baby. And I thought I had a vision that someone in their R room, like terrifying things, but it comes out of nowhere. I'm dreaming about rainbows and sunshine. And then that just like pops up. Unicorn kidnapping. Yeah. I wonder,

you know, test it out. If you're doing the worry time because you're acknowledging the worries already, they're already on paper, then perhaps you won't need to dream about it. You know, because when we're dreaming, we're processing our thoughts. We're finding solutions to our problems. So if this is a problem, your worries are technically made-up problems. And if you're writing them out and you're externalizing them, you're giving them a place to work with, space, then perhaps you won't have those dreams.

That would be nice. We'll see. One thing that i do want to add is i hear you guys you know you're talking about having your positive thoughts and i think having positive energy is very very important however what i do want to make a differentiation is there's a difference between just positive thinking versus optimistic thinking. And, you know, this came from a lot of positive psychology, you know, two decades ago with affirmations, you know, you wake up in the morning, you tell yourself, oh, that's going to be a beautiful day. Everything will be wonderful, blah, blah, blah, blah. However, if you're only thinking in these positive ways and then something terrible happens, you haven't really worked out, well, how am I going to deal with this not so positive thing, right? And then what happens is then

it makes you question, well, what happened? Why am I having, you know, not a great day? Didn't I put out positive energy out there? And this isn't, you know, this positive thing isn't happening. So what I teach my patients to do instead is to think optimistically, which is, I have no idea what's going to happen today. What I do know is that whatever comes my way, I have the tools and the problem-solving skills to deal with whatever lemon gets thrown at me. So that's kind of like a shift in thinking where it's not just positive.

However, I can handle it, whatever that is. I feel like I'm trying to do that a lot when she's swimming and we have her in swimming lessons, but it's still like one of my biggest fears is drowning. And, you know, you've heard about kids. They fall in the pool. They drown. Like, that's a real thing. It's terrifying.

And then I've heard about dry drowning. I'm like, oh, great. She swallowed a little bit of water. Is she going to die tomorrow? Like so many things. But like yesterday, like we're filming and she's in the pool and brock's waiting to get in and so like my feet are right there but i'm not in the pool with her she's like watch me i'm like and i was just like hold on hold on like wait until dad but i'm like you're fine you take swim

lessons you know how to come up for a breath and that's that's optimistic thinking right like i'm like you're you're okay you know what to do i'm right here god forbid i need to get in i'm right here but i was just like yes she has the skills she she learned to swim she knows what to do yeah and if anything happens you're right there so that's that's the optimistic thinking that totally you know you're doing it yeah i have one last question for partners that struggle to understand. And this was one thing that was great about having Brock at the conference with me. And he stood up and asked a question. It was so amazing. But what would you say is the best way to communicate what you're experiencing and the best way for them to support. Yeah, I think a lot of women

during the perinatal and postpartum period feel alone because we're, again, expected to do everything. I would ask the partner to read my book. In fact, my sister, my sister just had her, she just had her baby at 43, her second child a few days ago and my mom gave him the book my mom's like you need to read yes i love that and and you know there is you know in this book i do share different stories of women i've treated around the world and in one story it does specifically talk about the conflicts between the partner and the mother and how she felt alone. And she felt like she's expected to do everything and to change her schedule and to only think about the baby. And yet all her partner could do was tell her, go take more yoga lessons.

Go do more meditations. You need to calm down. And oh my gosh, how many women have actually calmed down because you told her to calm down? I think anytime my husband has said that to me, it has infuriated me even more, right? So it's learning for the partners. it's learning about what the woman is actually going through not just the bodily changes however the emotional expectations that are placed on her the the heaviness of all of this responsibilities that she has to carry that he doesn't so so like just because you're not carrying the baby, why do you get to keep doing all of the same?

Why do you get to go play golf? It's always golf. Right? Why? Always golf. Yes, why? Why can't I not do the things? I can't even have a glass of wine, but you can go play golf and go have fun with your buddies.

Why is that okay? So I think it's... And you know what? If you want to go play golf and go have fun with your buddies. Why is that okay? So I think it's, and you know what? If you want to go play golf, fine, you go. However, you also have to have realistic expectations of me if I'm not capable of doing X, Y, and Z because that's what I did pre-pregnancy or pre-baby. So it's having these conversations in a way that he can understand.

Yeah. Daniel and I are like communication like fiends. Like we just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, like overly talk about things. But he's, my husband has experienced anxiety and depression before we met, like crippling anxiety and depression where he like, he couldn't leave the house. So he, I'm very lucky that he was able to at least have an understanding of what I was going through and so he was really supportive and I even shown a bit on season one but even with like household chores and stuff like when I'm pregnant he steps up so I'm very like lucky that I have that and I feel like Brock is that same kind of person like I got you yeah what do you need like they've bonded over that you know one changes the diaper,

the other one's breastfeeding, like very hands-on. Yeah. So it's really important, right? And then in my book, I talk about how it's important for us to share our invisible load. So one of the things that I think

a lot of partners don't understand is all of the things that we mothers have to keep in our heads. So like school is starting do you know what class your child is going to be in do you know what school she even goes to right there was this comedian i don't remember his his name and he joked about how the school called him to pick up his daughter and his question was okay yeah i'll come pick her up what school does you go to oh and that is that is like but that is reality for some people that is real right not us so that's the reality for a lot of people totally yeah it's having these conversations about

you know what is the invisible load that i have to carry that i don't want to carry all by myself that I need you to help with. Totally. I'm so excited to read your book, to have my husband read your book. Everyone, if you can relate, hello, baby. Goodbye, intrusive thoughts. Thank you so much, Dr. Jenny Yip for being here. Nia for co-hosting with me. Be sure to check out her podcast, Hold My Crown, and stay tuned

for season two of The Valley. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for making this topic happen. Yeah, this was amazing. And thank you guys

for listening and watching. We will be back next week. Bye. Bye. Sheena Shea. Shea FK. Thanks for listening to Shenanigans

with Sheena Shay. Download new episodes every week on Apple Podcasts, boy. I'm gonna make you mine. Do you want it? Let me see you shake that. Do you need it? Let me see you shake that. Do you want it? Let me see you shake that. Come and get it.

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