Scheananigans with Scheana Shay - Swinging Secrets & BabyMama Drama with ‘Mormon Wives’ Taylor Frankie Paul & Mayci Neeley

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

This week, Scheana and Kiki are joined by #MomTok stars Taylor Frankie Paul & Mayci Neeley, who dish on the infamous swinging scandal that launched a thousand memes…and their new reality show – HULU’s “Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.” How does Taylor say the swinging began, and who from MomTok was involved? Would Taylor entertain it again? Where does Mayci stand with Whitney? Why weren’t they surprised by Connor’s Tinder activity? And who is paying for Zac Affleck’s med school? Plus, who do Taylor & Mayci say changed the most when the cameras were up? Tune in to find out! Follow us: @scheananigans @scheana @thetalkofshameGuests: @taylorfrankiepaul @maycineeley The video version of this episode will be available on Scheana’s YouTube page on Friday, September 13th.Episode Sponsors:Start a new fall ritual with Liquid I.V. Get 20% off your first order of Liquid I.V. when you go to LIQUIDIV.com and use code HONEY at checkout. Go learn more and pick up some product at your local ULTA or on Amazon.com. Alterna the Caviar of Haircare.Go to Quince.com/honey for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Use code GOODASGOLD for 15% off your first purchase at LumeDeodorant.com. Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. From Vanderpump rules to motherhood and everywhere in between. Warm up the kettle, it's time to spill some tea. Let's get into some shenanigans with Sheena Shay. Hello everyone, welcome back to shenanigans. I'm back in the studio this week with my girl Kiki Monique on the co-host, Mike. How we doing? Great.

We are joined today by two ladies who we've all been seeing on our For You pages for the last few years. And now they are everywhere. There are billboards on sunset, like giant billboards on Sunset, across all pop culture, even Good Morning America. So please welcome from Hulu's Secret Lives of Mormon Wives,

Taylor, Frankie, Paul, and Macy Neely. How are we doing? Good. Good. Thanks for having us. Thank you for having us. No, thanks for being here. We spent the weekend binging this season. How was it?

It's so good. Okay, good. Yeah, you're about to have like the number one reality. You're kidding. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, I guess that's my thing for everyone. I guess I'm learning that's my word.

But like, I guess it's shocking when you hear someone talk about like your show that way. Yeah, I feel like it's weird when you're in it, because we're just normal, there's nothing special, and then when you film on was like, this shit's crazy. Yeah, almost like a home video, we're used to making TikToks, we're like, okay, this will be cool, different, but then when people talk about it, we're like, well, tell us more, we don't know. No, it's definitely the best new show on Hulu in a while.

That's exciting. Okay, so what was like your favorite part? Is your favorite character? I mean, well, I like most of you. Okay, good. I won't say who. Okay, key words. There's a few where I'm like, I don't know.

Okay. But we won't say who because I'm not mean. Tell us after. Yeah, I'll tell you after. But the villains are still good. No, totally. You still are like, I appreciate you as a villain totally Girls and

Yeah, like I just oh my god It's I've I've never I don't think had this many cards for a podcast because oh, there's just so much I want to ask I do it. I'm so curious about so many things But what has this been like for you? You know, I mean we have the premiere and you're in LA for the premiere party I mean, are you you're used to you know getting recognition online and stuff But has it been different with now the show premiering? Yeah, it doesn't feel real to me I feel like when we're looking at our billboard yesterday

I'm like this is crazy like that's us on the billboard like it just doesn't seem real like I don't I don't feel real to me. I feel like when we were looking at our billboard yesterday, I'm like, this is crazy. Like, that's us on the billboard. Like, it just doesn't seem real. Like, I don't I don't know how to feel. It's just like crazy. I don't believe it. Mostly. Yeah, it hasn't like hit. We're like, I guess like we just we're talking about like, it's not something we're like thinking we're making a home video, like with friends. We're like, no, like no big deal.

But I think when things start happening, they're like, hey, your car is going to be there. Your hotel. Yeah. In what world? Like, it's just weird start happening, they're like hey your car is gonna be there your hotel Yeah, in what world like it's just weird like we're not used to it Yeah, really because tick-tock famous is way different than a TV. It's not even totally considered I guess famous if you will like we live in a very small bubble though So like you talk people do come up to you and they say hi and pictures and stuff and that's kind of cool But like yeah, there's a whole nother level. It's like whole another level it's like it's crazy yeah yeah very pinch me moment I think we got to the hotel yesterday like wait we're here because we have a show coming out

like this is crazy like this is our room that they got for us like it is crazy yeah yeah people are excited they're like on this they're on the street like hey we're so excited to watch binge-watch like you know but like it's just exciting and it's yeah it's I don't know it's a new world for sure for us I'm sure you're you guys are used to that. Yeah, but I will say there's something just so beautiful about a first season show and the cast, you know, when they don't know what they're in for yet.

And you're just so authentically you. You know, it's like the cameras aren't even there. And I love a good first season. I feel good, but I also feel like I'm also like so worried for you because I also know what comes with it. I know everyone's going to know and love you. You're going to get equal amounts of hate just because that's the way it goes. But I'm sure you got TikTok.

You got the same. Yeah. I think positive thing is we kind of are used to the hate already from doing like the influencer world. You get a lot of hate and I know it's probably like double that. But I'm like, at least you have like a taste of the hate. So yeah, yeah. Totally. For sure.

And I feel like most of like the headlines, you know, that I was known for are like really bad. And like, so, I feel like I'm used to that. It can't get worse. Yeah. It can or it can't? It can't. Okay, good.

That's why I was like, oh no. In my head, I was like, okay, that can't be worse than what I've gone through. I don't think so. Okay. So I wanted to ease in and start with a fun little game of superlatives Okay, so whoever is the best fit among your cast any of the girls you can also name yourself Okay, I'm gonna give you a list of things and then just shout out who you think it best fits

Okay, doesn't have to match. It's not like a BFF game. So, okay best hostess. Oh I probably me cuz I feel like I host the most. Yeah, maybe not because I think I'm the best, but I think I always end up hosting. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Who's the best dancer? Jen. Yeah, Jen. Okay. Best TikTok dancer. There is a different art to the TikTok dancing I feel like. Maybe we flip that and put Whitney as the best dancer and Jen as the best TikTok dancer. Yeah. Whitney did professional dance.

Wow. OK. But she's like an actual dancer. Gotcha. And she's really good on TikTok. So yeah. She's both. I think it would have to be both of them.

Yeah. Who's the most punctual? Who on time? Jessie. Yes, Jessie. Who has the most enviable wardrobe? I would say probably Jessie for me. Yeah, Jessie or Demi.

Demi, yeah, Demi or Jessie. They're both very cute all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Who is your favorite spouse or significant other? Probably our own. Yeah, our own. Are you saying if we couldn't choose our own?

Like someone else's. Oh. During the show, I was like. I want to see what you say first. We could go with least favorite. That might be too easy though. I liked all of them. I feel like for me, for like, I guess Dakota was getting close with like Brett.

So I'd say Brett and he was like really helping us through a hard time. So probably him for that reason. I would say he's a safe choice as well. Yeah. For sure. But I feel like my husband is probably the closest with Connor. Okay. Yeah. Who would you say is the peacemaker?

Me, I think. Yeah, me too. Most generous. Jessie. Yes, Jessie. I was gonna say Michaela as well. Yeah, Michaela. Yeah.

Biggest saint and biggest sinner. You're the biggest sinner. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's the biggest sinner. For now. Biggest saint is probably Jen, as far as like the most Mormon. Yeah, I'm the biggest sinner for now.

Like I think, you know, there was a season two, I might not make that cut, you know? Yeah, it's true. Tea. Who has the best soda recipe? I didn't know this was even a thing with all the different syrups and flavors and all that. Oh yeah.

I mean, I would like to say myself because I like what I make, but... So what's your go-to order? So I have two. My number one that I always get is a Diet Coke with fresh lemon and lime, which is just basic. But then if I want a treat, I'll get a Dr. Pepper with sugar-free vanilla,

sugar-free coconut, and cream. It's so good. And sometimes if you add a little raspberry puree in there, I'm not even a raspberry girl, but like the mixture, so good. And it sounds gross. Everyone who hears it, they're like, ew, the cream. And I'm like, I swear to you, it's like a treat for sure.

Mine's pretty boring. It's just like the diet Dr. Pepper with Mine's pretty boring. It's just like the diet Dr. Pepper with coconut and lime. So it's just like the dirty Dr. Pepper. Yeah. That's good though. Okay. Yeah I had no idea that soda. You have to come to Utah. I've never wanted to Utah with all this soda. I just feel like there's so much soda drinking. Okay. That's true yeah. Yes there is. They're everywhere. It's weird. It's like coffee shops basically. Yeah. Okay. Who's the thirstiest? You can take this literally or you know for attention. Oh so like Clout Chaser?

Yeah sure. Okay you go you answer that. Ah I mean in that in the the filming sense maybe Whitney? Maybe from the show filming perspective. Okay best and worst Mormon Oh worst Mormon You say me and no, I see like an ex Mormon. So maybe her yeah Okay, and the best again Jen Jen. Yeah, or Whitney. Yeah, Whitney who most desires to be Queen B of mom talk Who most desires to be Queen Bee of MomTalk? Whitney. Whitney. I think Demi's next. But who's the actual Queen Bee? Probably Taylor. Maybe. I mean I would say it's the creation of MomTalk. Taylor is not as involved anymore. I would say just

because I feel like you're kind of distracted. Distracted. Yeah among other things. Yeah. Yeah. Jessie's been pretty like she's like in things. She owns a business right so she likes to like coordinate things she's very good at like organizing things like that. Yeah so she kind of takes charge. Who is the cutest baby mama? You can say yourself. Like me? All of us. I was gonna say Michaela. Yeah. I mean, she just like is like a, she's a really good mom in the opinion of like motherhood

and with her kids and like really raw. So I'd say, no. Okay. Most improved when you started filming till now. As far as like- In life or filming? For me, I would say Michaela. Cause when we first started, she was very quiet.

And then at the end She called I don't know if it's on camera, but she called Layla a bitch It was a proud moment for me as like her friend. I was like you said that Yeah, she got comfortable yeah, like she like started speaking what she was feeling and I was like, oh my gosh So I would say her for me. Okay. Yeah Who would you say is the biggest chameleon for the cameras? Who changes the most when you're filming? Demi?

I have like as multiple people it could be. Who? I feel like Jen did a little bit. Oh, her too, yeah. For sure. Whitney did a little bit. And Demi did a little bit. Yeah, they just like, I mean, Demi's like, I love her.

She's so chill. No, she's so cool. But like on camera she like came out full force on people and I just like, I mean, Demi's like, I love her. So chill. But like on camera, she like came out full force on. Oh, and I was like, I didn't see this. The Park City trip, I was in shock. Yes. Yeah. So entertaining, though. I was like, where was Dennis? I thought you were quiet, girl. Yeah. Because when we filmed like the pilot, like she came in towards the end of her filming the pilot

and she was like, really quiet. Like, you guys, we shouldn't cuss and like we shouldn't. And I was like, coming from you? And then in the show and she was like really quiet like you guys we shouldn't cuss and like we shouldn't I was like coming from you and then in the show I was like okay so we were worried almost with her going into the show like are you really gonna show your personality and then like Park City I was like gosh damn like tone it down you know she came out full force I love yeah yeah yeah no you definitely saw that I mean she said she was a level 9 out of 10. Oh she's not Actually, I should not speak for her. That is so funny. I mean love it. You could say that that's comical. Yeah Okay. Well, I have a million things to ask you. So

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but I'm going to try and sum it up just to give the listeners a little heads up. Okay. So Taylor had started posting on Tik TikTok with some fellow mom friends, which resulted in the hashtag mom talk. And then you all built like very successful followings on social media, brands, businesses, millions of followers, like total internet sensation. But then Taylor and her ex-husband parted ways and you felt the need to be honest with the audience you had built so you went on a live and her fans saw the raw truth where she opened

up that her and her husband had been part of a group that had been participating in soft swinging like swapping partners and that you had crossed the line going further with someone than was allowed. So there was this implication that this swinging group was within the Mom Talk group, which then led to this massive scandal, took over TikTok. I mean, it was all across pop culture. So I assume then that got the attention of production companies to want to tell the story for the show, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Here we are. Does that sound pretty accurate?

Yeah. Okay. So we'll get into more of the show shortly, but I just, I have to ask about the swinging aspect of it. Like, how does that conversation come about? Do you just literally ask your friend if they would be down or? No this is like the most asked question. I'm so curious. I know even like couples are like how does that even happen? But honestly it wasn't even a conversation it was like we were all

partying and drinking and I think they were just like hey you guys should kiss like me and my friend. And so party girl and me was like, okay, like not a big deal. Like I kissed her and then it kind of like escalated at every party. Like do this, do this, pictures in your lingerie. And it was kind of just like we were drinking and my ex actually hadn't partied. He partied the first time at age 28 or 29, if I remember right. So it's like all new to him.

And I can't speak. Well, I won't speak for them, but I will say I assume that this was all like fun and games because growing up in the LDS culture, they didn't drink and they didn't party. And some of these people, their spouses are their first person they had ever been with, you know? So I think opening up this can of worms was like,

oh, like what college kids do, you know? I was like, this is so fun, let's experiment. And so I think it was spicing up everything for people. And it just asked like, it just went, it got further and further every party. So. Yeah. That's what I wondered too, because I feel like a lot of the Mormon community, they get married right after high school. So you don't get that college experience. So it made sense to me that like, why wouldn't you, if you have a group of young friends like that are all hot, cause I don group of young friends that are all hot,

because I don't know why you all are all hot, but you all are hot. Thank you. And everyone has such good hair. Oh my God. Seriously. Jessie. We're going to Jizz.

Yeah, right? Yes, we are. Yes, exactly. So my husband was actually raised Mormon in New Zealand. I don't know if you knew that. No way. I didn't know that. Yeah, so they're not really a part of the church anymore.

But just I mean, he didn't really drink or anything until his mid 20s and coming to America and whatnot. So I started watching this this weekend. He's like, wait, a Mormon show. And then he was actually into it. So yeah, I like that we had a new show we could watch together. So that's crazy. Yeah. That's cool. Okay, so what exactly back to the swinging? Um, what is soft swinging? Is it like everything but? Yes. Okay, exactly. And I did not come up with that term by the way. I mean, that's what it was starting to get called. And so I, someone must have known. Yeah. Yeah. Was this exclusive to the mom talk community or like there's like the mom swinger group the Mom Talk group did they ever cross into each other's

territory? Yes one from Mom Talk was there. Okay is this one that is no longer a part of the group? Yes and and I've talked about that it's like really sticky situation because I want to like respect them right to an extent you know they out themselves in a lot of ways, but mm-hmm It's my story and so like I really try to tell a story as best as I can without like giving up their Names and lives you know well. I feel like I mean Miranda and Camille is it who recently I saw some stuff online so what one of my best friendsala, she's from Salt Lake City and her brother is friends with Miranda.

So I was getting some extra tea that we will not spill on the podcast. Oh, you're not even gonna share. Out of respect. I think that's unfair, I think you. I mean, it's not my story to tell, but I understand why she didn't wanna do the show. You gotta tell us after then.

Some secret lives maybe just want to stay secret. Yes. Not be a one to me. Well, you did a video though. She was saying she turned down the show. And you were like, I can't remember the TikTok you did, but you were basically like, that's bullshit. No, and they did turn down the show.

I think they were saying because it was family. So to me, it was like just frustrating. Like, but that like wasn't the case. Like you can kind of see in her text She's saying well I wish I would have known I wish I can know the verdict if Taylor's in it or not then I'd make my decision So in her head, I think she might have done it if I hadn't been she wants no parts of you Yeah, so I think additionally they didn't want to have to answer to Everything that happened like and they knew if they went in the show that they would have to answer for everything

Because there was a lot of lies when everything first come out from many people and they would get called out on that. So I think that would be a shame, though, because I feel like what we learned from Scandival and that whole thing with Raquel Rachel not coming back to the next season and tell her story. Other people are going to tell the story. Still going to talk. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where Montauk does get involved. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, you know, them, Miranda, like,

oh, it's the I can't like, it's so hard. I can't. People. Yes. People, you know, brought people to their homes and like, we're telling lies and like the story, like nothing happened, blah, blah, blah. And then like Mom Talk comes to me and they're like, is this what happened? And I was like, no. And so that's kind of how they all got like wrapped up into it. Yeah for sure Yeah, yeah, they wrapped us in and we were all involved in a way. Well not like that, but on social media So

Would you ever? Spill it all like write a book one, a little black book of like the details? Maybe, I feel like I've been so open with the details. I mean, I don't really know like what's missing. I mean, unless someone like asks me, but like, I feel like I'm pretty open. I've been really open with it. You mean like name dropping?

Yeah. Okay, maybe if they outed themselves, I guess, which too they pretty much have, honestly. But yeah, if they wanted to come clean and admit that, then maybe. But I feel like I'm just stuck in this gray area of not being able to. How do you do that?

Yeah, I mean, you are a really open book. I mean, we find out in the season that your mom knew you were sleeping with your boyfriend in high school. It just seems so opposite of what I know about Mormon. How did you have such an open relationship with your mom? I mean, even though she's still like, well, come at you and be like, are you doing this all wrong?

But you seem to be able to tell her things. Well, I feel like I wasn't able to tell her. Did we have like a conversation in there? It was, you know, she said, you know, I knew that you and Tate were sleeping or she knew Tate and I were sleeping together in high school. Oh, OK. So I met him when I was 21. OK. So, yeah, before marriage. Got it. Yes. She probably I think she just assumed like at that point

I was sleeping with him. I actually didn't lose my virginity to like after high school So like I I was no good in that sense, I guess um But yeah, I wasn't open with her. I was very closed off and like didn't share so scared You know to like admit those things and I think when everything broke out then I was very like obviously I'm open with her now But yeah, I was very like, obviously I'm open with her now. But yeah, it was a lot to get there. But she's kind of like really laid back Mormons. Like my mom knew that I had drank alcohol

and of course they're not happy about it, but they had partied before too. So I was more in a laid back family where I think some in the cast maybe were growing up in a very devout, absolutely not. You know? Yeah.

Now do you drink? No, I went through a little party phase for Mormon, you know, back in college, but not anymore now. Yeah, crazy college days. Yes. Yeah. So in the first episode, I did love to see that you were the one

who was really welcoming Taylor back into the group. Did you feel like some of the ladies were nervous to associate with her after the scandal? I think so, but I feel like a lot of us are just open-minded people. There were certain people in the group who did, like, ostracize you and were like, didn't want to even be involved with her name.

Definitely wasn't me, Michaela, or Whitney. We just were like, who cares? You know, we like that Taylor was at least telling the truth and being open. And I feel like when we did talk, I got to know Taylor actually better after the scandal than I knew her before the scandal. And so I was like, wow,

we're actually more like than I thought we were. And I was able to relate to her a lot and understand where she's coming from. Cause I'm like, yeah, you made mistakes, but no one wants to feel like this. Like people were like shunning her. Like you should have seen our group chats. Like people were being brutal to her.

So I was like, this is a joke, you know? It's ridiculous. Well, it was a, this is a joke, you know? Yeah. It's ridiculous. Well, it was a great training for reality TV, you know? Yeah. I don't think it could get worse. The amount of drama that was going on then was insane. So bad. So bad. Yeah. I was like, I hate my life. I mean, you could just probably publish that as a book, the group chat.

Right. I read that. Literally. Yeah. It was like, it's been fun. Yeah. The peace sign. I was like, oh my gosh. People trying to sue you. Last thing on the swinging. Would you ever entertain it again? No.

Okay. So, how did this show come about? Was it in the works before the scandal, or did that really put attention on the group to make a show about it? I think it was just after the scandal right? I mean like I know you got approached you and the other two girls got approached but it didn't go anywhere right? Yeah it was like what are we like an introduction call type thing you know right? You know I actually did get interviewed for the Housewives or what is it? Salt Lake City? Yes. I had an interview I think a few months prior

maybe a little longer. And basically I was told, oh little Bernie told me like, yeah you didn't have enough drama on your life. Isn't that crazy? So I didn't get it. Because I was obviously not admitting to like what we were up to, right?

It was like just like giving them. It worked out for the better anyways. Yeah. I can imagine. I know. I know. It'll be amazing. And then it like goes after the scandal

We're like all of us were just getting DMS from like producers and different things and like we want to do a show like they Asked me Michaela and Whitney to do a show with us three which was so random and our manager who also manages Danielle Was like no just wait just wait. Let me handle it. It's like alright Yeah, put our faith in her and she pulled through yeah Yeah, would you ever do a housewives type of show? Do you watch those shows? I don't. I don't either. Yeah.

But I feel like I want to because I heard they're good. The Salt Lake one. Oh my God. That's what everyone's saying is the Salt Lake one's really good. Are you seeing friends with any of the Salt Lake City Housewives? I've seen like one of them at like an influencer event. Okay. I don't like know them.

I think I've gotten, we got invited to Whitney Roses. Yeah. We know the names. We were like busy or something. I don't know. We couldn't go. But like we know of them. I think we got invited to Whitney Roses. Yeah, we know the names. We were like busy or something. I don't know, we couldn't go. But like we know of them. But like I don't, I haven't seen it. It's so good.

I heard it's really good. I think I'm gonna have to watch it now. Especially the past season. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's what everyone's been saying. Okay, I'm gonna have to do a deep dive. Yeah, we should watch it. So when I was watching the first episode,

I mean, obviously the pilot was how long ago? I mean, Whitney's hair changed colors and styles. How many times? Oh yeah. This time, two years ago, it was September, end of September, 2022 as a pilot. Yeah, I was like, we go from that and then we have Taylor's arrest

and then it picks back up and you're like very pregnant. Oh gosh. I'm not excited to see that. Sorry the jump. I got the jump scare like oh, yeah Oh cuz you haven't seen it all yet No, and I know it's just like a different person It's two years prior cuz I was like going through my door so I would like right super underweight to that. Yeah Did you have to stop filming from the time of the arrest to the time like cuz it just seemed like a large gap Yeah, okay. It was on the time of the arrest to the time, like, because it just seemed like a large gap? Yes. Yeah. It was on hold.

Because of the arrest? Yeah. We were supposed to film March 2023 from what I understand. And it got delayed, and so we didn't film till January 2024. Oh, wow. That's shocking, because I feel like that's when we pick cameras up when people get arrested.

I know. Well, I mean, we had all of the body cam footage, which was wild. How did you feel when you found out that that was going, we had all of the body cam footage, which was wild. How did you feel when you found out that that was going to be a part of the show? I was fine with it because it was so public record and I don't know if you knew it. It was like all over TikTok. So I would like at this point, everyone has seen it. Everyone's already seen it, mostly.

Gotcha. Yeah. With the body cam footage, I feel like you've been very open about your struggles and did you feel like this was a rock-bottom moment for you that's really changed you? Yes, absolutely. I feel like that night, I don't know like how to word this correctly because I'm like I feel like that's not, it sucks to say it, but like that night almost had to happen in order for like me to like wake up. I feel like I was in this like, I don't know what you'd call it, but I was just standing so

still. I was in so much pain. I couldn't move forward. It's still to this day trying, right? But I feel like it hit rock bottom. I'm like, wake up. Go get yourself help. Therapy.

I got into EMDR classes immediately. And I also got on medication, antidepressants. I was kind of against them and like, no, I can do this and I can got on medication like antidepressants like I was kind of against someone like no I can do this and I can do this and I like just couldn't and so I'm like I needed help to like take that Edge off a little bit, so I got all that help you know and it's been a Yeah, a big wake-up call, so I'd say that night unfortunately had like not had to happen, but it happened for good I ended up coming out better. Yeah, that makes sense Yeah, I think as a friend to you can see her progression even through the show.

Like she's such a different person from when we filmed the pilot. They think I'm boring. They're like, Taylor, like you're awesome. I miss the spice sometimes, but it does come out. It still comes out. Yeah, I think when you film with Dakota, it comes out, trust.

Oh yeah. Yeah, that's why I love her. You'll definitely see it. And Whitney too. Really? Yeah, I mean, you know. I definitely sad. And Whitney too. Really? Yeah, I knew you could tell. I feel like I was so calm and boring. I was like, oh.

She was very calm when she was pregnant, like compared to normal maybe. Yeah, I feel like I'm very like sassy and I feel like that was like just so. Yeah, I don't think it was like too spicy. I think it was more just like what's going on. Yeah. And she's coming off a little more spicier and you're just kind of like, oh, these are the facts. You know what? Maybe it's my antidepressants that really kicked in and they're like, now you're leveled

out. I'm like chill again. Like, yeah, maybe. Right. I can't imagine though, filming pregnant because I was pregnant in the pandemic when we were on break. Yeah. And then, you know, we had Janet pregnant on the first season of the Valley, Lala pregnant

right now. No, and especially now that I'm learning about the, I'm learning about the things that happen to your body when you're pregnant Yeah I saw something about your eyeballs change shape and you can't fit your contacts in like your feet grow to new sizes My feet grew. People talked about They said something about lightning vagina or yeah, I get that. What is it called? Lightning crotch. What is? It's like a zing of lightning up your coochie Like it's like a spark. I got like 12 DMs about lightning crotch. No, it It's like a zing of lightning up your coochie.

Like it's like a spark. I got like 12 DMs about lightning crotch. No, it's a real, I got it really bad my last pregnancy. Interesting. Yeah, it comes out of nowhere. Just one. Okay. Yeah, I had a very traumatic labor,

so I don't think I'll ever be pregnant again, but it's okay, I have an angel. Yeah. All you need. Yeah. I was also interested, I need to ask Jesse I'm like I've never heard of a lady. Yeah, Plasty. Yeah I've heard of it because I thought some another housewife Sonya did it. I thought really one of the housewives did it

Yeah, the things that happen to your body after children. Yeah No, I'm keeping up with it all like yeah. Oh, that's a thing Do I need that like you're just like and she was so open about it, too I know they had a word I was like, oh you that's the thing? Do I need that? Like, you're just like. And she was so open about it too. I mean, I was just like. I mean, they had a word. I was like, oh, you're like fully showing it on camera. I know. I want to see it. I want to see the unedited version.

Right? No, she showed us. She got the unedited version. Did it look good? It did. Well, when she showed us, it was kind of scary because it had all the stitches. Like, she had just got it done when she showed us.

So I was like, whoa. But I'm curious what it looks like now. Yeah. I want to see her vagina. I want to see her before and after. Yeah. Yes But I'm curious what it looks like now. Yeah. I want to look at her vagina. I want to see the ornithalium before and after. Yeah, yes. I love looking at before and afters.

Interesting. Okay, so. Maybe she'll come in and show you. Yeah, she actually would, because she loves you, so she would. Yeah. Well, I love her, so we'll have to have her on. Okay, so you were both raised in the Mormon church,

Taylor in Utah, you in Orange County. I love how you said you like to tell people you're from California so they know you're cool. Oh yeah, all the time. I'm like, no, I'm a California Mormon. You don't understand. But I'm a Colorado one because I didn't move till I was 16. Oh, okay. So I was still raised out of state. Okay, so a little different. What is your current relationship like with the church? I'm active in the church. So I go every Sunday. I teach five-year-olds the gospel.

Is that the word to say? It feels so weird saying that. I don't know why. And yeah, so yeah, I don't know about UT. I go like here and there. I've never been like every Sunday goer, but yeah, I go when I want and I can and that's that. Did either of you do a mission trip?

I did not. The only girl in our cast was Whitney. She was a missionary. Gotcha. So growing up in Southern California, how did you end up in Utah? I went to school up there. Oh, okay. Yeah. So like my family is Mormon and so traditionally like most Mormons go to BYU. Right.

But I was an athlete. So I was choosing like, oh, I was recruited by UCLA and some other top 10 schools, but my sister ended up being the tennis coach for BYU. And we've come from a big tennis family, so both my sisters are D1 tennis players. And so she's like, you're coming here. So like I did, you know? So that's how I got to Utah. And it was definitely like a culture shock for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you think you'll stay living there? I do, but I eventually wanna go back to California or like have both. My dream is to have a house there, a house in like Orange County. Yeah, a vacation house. That's my dream. Oh, winter's in California. And then like everything else, I dream is to have a house there, a house in Orange County. That's my dream. A vacation house.

Oh, winter's in California. And then everything else, I go to Utah. Totally. It's interesting how some things in the Mormon world are accepted and then others are shunned. It's like Whitney, you know, scared to do a vibrator commercial,

but then admits she's done ketamine therapy it's true yeah that is true it's an interesting contrast like no alcohol or coffee but excessive soda is as much as you want which also has caffeine yes that's what's interesting Mormons can have caffeine I guess it's just not we're not supposed to have coffee or tea which is the acids in it I feel like my dad taught me that. Cause I always ask him like, why can't we drink coffee? And he was like, the acids in it or something.

But that's the thing that nobody knows. Cause I've heard acids. I heard it could be addictive. I've heard like so many different things, but no one truly knows. It just, we're like not supposed to. It's more just like guidelines. I'm gonna get to the bottom of this.

I think every soda manufacturer is owned by a Mormon and maybe that's really the truth. Oh my gosh. Maybe on. Because what? I think they they knew that got rid of soda that a lot of members would be gone because they can't do that. Needs something.

Yeah. Yeah, I was asking my husband, I was like, wait, okay, the coffee and tea, it's a stimulant. I'm like, soda has caffeine? He's like, no, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. And guess who had to settle the argument? Alexa.

Literally, he's like, Alexa, does Coca-Cola have caffeine? She's like, yes, it does. I'm like, obviously it has caffeine. Same with Monster energy drinks or any energy drinks and we can have those. Oh, you can have energy drinks. Interesting. And so like me and Taylor both drink coffee. I actually just started drinking like a year ago, which is so funny, because I didn't realize like iced coffee was a thing.

I was like, wait, this shit's good. And so like I drink coffee now. You just discovered iced coffee? Yes. Wow. I thought it was like just like a bitter, like I thought coffee was disgusting, you know? And then I tried like an iced coffee

with like the sugar in it. I was like, oh shit. I've been telling you this for a while. I know, I think you made me sip it on camera. And I was like, she's trying to get me, trying to take me down. And now I'm like fully addicted. I mean, my husband is too, yeah.

I kind of want to party with Mormons because I feel like it would be like, everything would be so brand new. I'd be like, you've never done that? Let's try this. Yeah, I know who you're like. Yes. Yeah.

No, it is. Seriously though. It's a culture shock too. If you go to BYU and you see their parties, everyone's sober, just like dancing, having the best time. It's like, is everyone like anti-depressant too? Like, how is everyone so happy?

That's why it's called Happy Valley. No, truly. It's so funny. That's why it's called Happy Valley. No, truly. It's so funny. And wait, what is soaking? Oh. I had to talk about this today. I had to give like demonstrations in the show, in my interviews, like can you just like demonstrate?

I'm like. Oh yeah, let's see it. I know I haven't heard of it, but is it like a sexual thing? Yeah. Okay. It's like a way for like Mormons to like break the rules without breaking them, but you are, it's like-

Like an over the pants hand job? No, it's worse than that. Soaking's like putting it in, but you're not doing anything. It's just in there. Oh, you're just not pumping. It's just soaking. Yeah, you're just soaking.

But then sometimes they call, have someone come shake the bed. Is what they call it. They have a friend come shake it. Put it on the bed. So that like it's moving without them actually This is really close friendships can you imagine like going to your friends Like I mean that's shocking this okay for sure drill Wow, that's another level it and I see it's a real thing

I never saw it when I went to this school. I could never, like, obviously experienced. I just did the real thing, you know? But like, I guess it's like a real thing. But can you imagine being like, come over at 9 p.m. Can you shake the bed for me at 9 p.m.? Like, can you imagine that? Oh my gosh. No, no.

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but where do we stand with Whitney? I saw you recently on a TikTok of hers. She's very pregnant. You and Jen were dancing behind her. So I'm like, I assume you're good. I saw, I think the last one with you was maybe in December. So I'm like, I'm so curious. I did a deep dive.

Yeah. I think we're good on my end. It's like, I'm like I'm so curious. I did a deep dive. Yeah, I Think we're good on my end. It's like I'm fine with her We cleared the air but you know, you never know with Whitney's I'm like, oh we'll wait and see Yeah, we have cleared the air but like we're not as close as we once were for sure still half in the doghouse Three fourths. Okay, I don't think she like I made that comment earlier this week too. And I was like girl Do you think that like she came into the season like intending to be the villain? No, okay. She did not think that she was gonna come off that way I mean, I think she did certain things for the plot

Yeah, and I think they backfired and she was like wait, like I didn't anticipate this happening. That's how I would think There's other girls who definitely think different but that was yeah. I think she thought I was probably gonna be the villain mm-hmm yeah yeah I think a lot of the audience thought that too yeah for sure I know that's what I was told that I was like thought I'd be the villain yeah would you say her not showing up to your baby mama launch party was like a big turning point for sure I think especially because like all season I backed her up you know I was trying to help her you know like on camera, off camera. And then like the one thing that I have going on,

like the biggest deal in my life right now, you don't show up, but not even that, you don't even send me a text, you don't call me. But her husband texted my husband saying, tell me see like, congrats. I'm like, your husband's texting my husband, but you couldn't send me a text? I just thought it was messed up.

So that like really bugged me and like, And we're fine, we're cordial, but just not the same as before. It was shocking because you were the voice of reason the entire season. I felt like you did a really good job of handling both sides and trying to bring everyone together. So I was shocked that she just played you like that. Trust me, I was too.

I was very shocked to see the leads. We were not shocked to see the show. We're like, amazing. I love that unfollowollow unfollow unfollow like everyone at the same time Yeah, I forgot you guys did that and we told you were like she's not gonna show and you're like confident that she wouldn't rely Yeah, I just didn't think she would play me like that. Maybe I'm high-expect to I don't feel like I'm high expectations But Mike, this is the bare minimum like you could have showed up for five minutes just to be like hey I'm here to support you. You're doing so good like I'm gonna leave though. That's fine But she shows up for five minutes at Michaela's party because what it's the last night of filming

No, yeah, it was literally like a day or two later. I'm like and that's when you want to talk to me, right? I cannot wait to see that. I've not seen that yet when I tell you you I was floored, I have never been so shocked in my life to see I was not ready to have that conversation. I love when she walks in with the gift all proud. Like in the trailer, that's all I've seen. Me and Mikayla's faces were like... I was like stunned to say the least. Oh no, you see it all. I've seen the last five minutes of episode eight. That's the only thing I've seen. And I was like, damn, this is actually pretty good. It was shitty at the time. I was like, what the hell is going on?

And then now I'm like, well, I see. I mean, it ends on the craziest cliffhanger where it's like, obviously there has to be a season two. Yeah. Have you started filming yet? Not yet. I don't know if we have one. I think, I mean.

There will be. There will be. I'm confident. Yeah. Really? Absolutely. You will have that OC in Utah House very soon. There will be plenty of seasons. Oh, I mean. There will be. There will be. I'm confident. Yes. Really? You will have that OC in Utah House very soon. There will be plenty of seasons. Oh, I hope so. Especially like Hulu shows don't just end after one season.

They're not picking up a show that they only see one season. There's longevity behind it. Even if it's like, Damilio's did three seasons, but you're still, you're gonna have another season. Yeah. It's too good. Because there's so much. I mean, the Affleck storyline we need to know more about.

And also even with Whitney, because we do. I mean, she comes out and reveals finally that her husband did have, I guess, a tender profile. Do do we know like he he wasn't meeting up with people in real life? From what we know, he did not meet up with people. Yeah, I mean, she I don't know. We asked her. I'm like, is that something you've asked? You know, and I think the answer is no.

And she said that she believes whatever he says. And he is a really good guy, so I can't say anything on that, but it's interesting. It seemed like it wasn't that shocking when she admitted it to you girls. Did you already pretty much know that it was true? Yeah, I think like, because it, so it came out right when the swinging scandal happened.

And then people were like, oh, Whitney's probably like it came out right when the swinging scandal happened and then people were like Oh Whitney's probably like milking this to hide her own scandal and I was seeing those comments and I was seeing stuff online and I was like, oh And then like yeah, she eventually told us, you know Yeah, but it was still shocking like I cuz when I first asked her about it She's like, oh no, like that's fake like she lied to us, you know, which I get like I probably would do if I was in her Situation. So I think she didn't know it wasn't it like that's fake, like she lied to us, you know, which I get, like I probably would too if I was in her situation, so. No, I think she didn't know, wasn't it?

Originally she didn't know. She didn't know it was true. But when I asked her, she did. Oh, she did, okay. And I had a weird feeling because she brushed it off so fast when I asked her, it was like, oh no, like someone just used this picture from like high school. So I was like, but the way she brushed it off so fast

without being like talking about it more, because I feel like if it wasn't true, I'd be like, oh my gosh, can you believe that? Like I'd have a full conversation. I was like, okay. Yeah. Cause I feel like if it wasn't true, I'd be like, oh my gosh, can you believe that? Like I'd have a full conversation. I was like, okay. Yeah. So I felt something, you know? So like when she had something to tell us, I was like,

I can't believe that was true. Cause when that was all going down and I saw that, I was like, oh, people are just making up the craziest things right now. I think it's shocking because it's Connor. And like, if you know Connor, like you would never think anything like that, but he's like the nicest guy.

Even though he messed up, he is the nicest, sweetheart, most supportive human. I think she kinda aired him out, cause I think she said he had this profile pretty much their entire marriage, and then she's like, and he had a porn addiction. And I was like, well nobody asked for that, but I mean, thank you for sharing.

Right? This is the problem though, is I feel like all of us are such open books. We lay out our dirty laundry, no other, like to fault. Like I'm like talking about having like nervous diarrhea, I guess, in the show. I didn't know that until one of the previous podcasts. Like you get the nervous diarrhea. And I was like, what?

I was like, did I say that? No, but that's why it's so good, because it's just so like just unintentionally funny. You'll just be like in a scene, you're like, ketamine therapy. Wait, what? What are we talking about? Oh, my gosh. We've both done it. Yeah. Wait, OK. So tell me about that, Oh my gosh. We've both done it. Yeah. Wait. Okay. So tell me about that because I'm so intrigued by catamine therapy. It's honestly super cool.

What kind did you do? Did you do like the- I did the IV. Yeah, the IV. And it was intense. Like I know Demi has a whole, she's obsessed with it and she has like a whole thing where she's like, I discovered why I got divorced in my relationship, this and this flourished.

And I'm like, wow, I was floating in the clouds as like a cartoon starfish but like I don't know what experience you had that wasn't mine but I felt great after I was leaving they're like so happy like by the third session for me third or fourth is when I like saw a human in it for the first time which sounds silly but I'm only seeing like animations and then then I was like oh I see why people do this because I saw like it was very like motivating and I felt like really happy. And like, I feel like it would carry into like daily life. But it is interesting.

I honestly feel like it was just like, kind of like doing drugs. Like it was definitely helpful. Yeah. Well it is. I mean, it is. But you can do Academy of Recreation. Yeah.

It just doesn't feel like it because like, you have a nurse in your room, they're giving you an IV and they're like coming in and doing your blood pressure. So that's why to me it didn't feel like a drug, right? It was like for an IV and they're like coming in and doing your blood pressure so that's why to me didn't feel like yeah right as like for mental health and stuff I was like okay I'll try it my parents freak though they're like don't do that yeah like that's a horse tranquilizer and I was like well I like it

crazy right out about that though I know yeah yeah I did two two sessions I get really sick but I feel like if you're not in the right mindset it really is where your mind is that and I feel like I wasn't and sick. But I feel like if you're not in the right mindset, it really is where your mind is at. And I feel like I wasn't. And so for me, I was like kind of more like panicking in it. But I feel like good the next day. That's where I'm like, oh, is that worth it? Cause like you feel better and that's what it's for

is to help like your depression too and anxiety. So like it was worth it like after, but in the moment it's hard cause I get, you can like throw up and so I got sick every time. Yeah, you could take so Fran or something though But I feel like sometimes like I just tell myself to surrender which sounds so weird But like it can get really trippy. She's had to go with it Yeah, relax like and if you don't you can panic and then you don't enjoy it. Yeah, you can fight it. It's weird

He's like I've done drugs before that's out myself, but then you're like, oh, it's not it's like then you like, okay It's not that crazy But I thought for someone who's never done anything or you had alcohol or anything and goes and does it I could see how that Could be yeah, I can't even yeah season two. We take the Mormon girls to Central America for ayahuasca I would do ketamine therapy. Yeah, the ayahuasca freaks me out I've actually so many people, you should go do that. And I'm like, because it's around us too in Utah. So we could do it. But I'm like, it's too nervous.

I have a phobia of throw ups. I'm like, no, I heard everyone throws up. Oh, yeah. I think that's how you ridge yourself. That's what I understand. I can't do that. I'm like, keep those demons in there. I don't want them out there. Oh my gosh. OK, a little more on Whitney. So it seemed like she just harbored a lot of animosity against Taylor, you know, throughout the season.

And it made me think, are we missing part of the story here? You know, I mean, obviously shows are edited. We don't get to see everything. But then she reveals that she actually was jealous, but it was because she felt like she got more backlash about the video dancing with her baby who just had RSVU, which, I mean, I can understand the backlash from that. Like, your child was just hospitalized and sick, and you're dancing behind them. Do you think everyone's gonna be like, oh, yay, it's not like the baby was smiling.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think, I know I feel for her because I'm obviously been in that situation where everyone hates, like they're hating on you, you know? So I like gave it grace and I was like, yeah, that was probably not the best thing to do. But at the end of the day, like, I felt like she, her baby was okay.

I think she had just got good news and then she like wasn't thinking and did it, right? Like it was a mistake. And that's like, I feel like I've been there so many times where I'm like, I didn't think it was the end of the world. But again, you're asking me that's done to a mistake. So I don't know. But yes, there was a lot of like resentment built up,

I think over time. And again, she's not seeing my DM. She's not seeing all the negative comments. She's not doing research of how much DM I'm getting. So like, you're not seeing it. So I understand why you think you're not, you're getting more than me, but in no world I think she was getting more than me especially I wasn't even in your DMs and I saw the hate Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all like I have actual hate pages out there like specifically to hate you know and so

Yeah, I think it's and especially after the rest. That's like a huge deal. You know it's all over I'm like there is no way that you can compare. I think it's and especially after the rest that's like a huge deal, you know is all over I'm like there is no way that you can compare that. I think I'm definitely win the hate game there But I felt for her, you know in that how she's feeling her feelings are valid But I mean still people haven't moved past it, but I feel like in her case. That's something okay Maybe not the best of time. Let's move on. Yeah. Yeah, it's like people should give her that grace But again, you're asking me so I'm just like aren't you scared I mean, you know what it's like to go through reality world where people are like I want to be more famous or popular and like they're really young and like they haven't even gotten the taste of it

This is season one. I'm actually excited for what's gonna happen on season two or three But I'm also just like oh, I said, what do you mean? There's gonna be broken friendships is what I'm saying. Like there's gonna be so, and like I think there's gonna be backstabbing. I think there's gonna be like people throwing each other under the bus, but like, and it'll be good for us

cause we get excited about that. It's so bad. Yeah. But like. I guess that's the reaction we've been getting. So in my head, they're like, cause they're like, so tell us about this. And we're like, blah, blah.

And they're like, oh, okay. You haven't seen the show. Like they're like giving us like, yeah, so tell us about this. And we're like, blah, blah. And they're like, okay, you haven't seen the show. Like they're like giving us like, yeah, we're gonna ask you here again in a week. Yeah, but we're all great friends. And they're like, well, obviously you haven't seen anything. Yeah, so you haven't seen what everyone said

behind each other's back. No. That's, here's the thing with reality TV, there's so many great things where it's like, you get to see, there's nothing normal about it, right? Like you go back in time, but it's like you get to see, there's nothing normal about it, right? Like you go back in time, but it's great to get to see other people's perspectives. It's also very hurtful to see other people's perspectives

when it's about you. It gives you more insight on, oh, that's why she was feeling this way. And sometimes it can help repair friendship, and then sometimes it also can harm a friendship. I started reality TV when I was like 26, 27. So kind of a similar age. And I mean, it's been a wild ride. So, what's your advice?

Oh, advice? I would just say, you know, to try and give each other grace where you can, because none of you really know what you're doing. It is so different to do reality TV than it is to do TikTok. Yeah. And I'm really good friends with the D'Amelio family. They, you know, blew up on TikTok in the pandemic and then they went on to do a Hulu show as well. And it is a different level. It's a different audience. And that's obviously family so it's different with them yeah but with you girls you know you are a group of

friends and there are gonna be things that people say that are gonna hurt your feelings but hopefully I feel like they need a reunion you know I know jump into season two like you know I'm baby because that's an opportunity where you have watched the whole season and you get to talk about your feelings. Yeah. And it, like I said, it can repair or it can hurt friendships. And I've been on both ends of that spectrum. Yeah.

But overall, I think it really can help you grow as a person. So just take any of that negativity, turn it into positivity, and just know that you're trying to be the best version of yourself. And anyone who really loves you is going to understand that, and they're going to give you grace. Yeah. And I feel like I don't worry about us. Like, I feel like we give people grace pretty easily.

I don't know. But I do worry about some other people on the cast. Like, I feel like we have pretty thick skin. Like, you can say whatever to me. I'm like, OK. I'm like, sorry, you feel that way. Like, how can I fix it? Yeah. but I don't feel like everyone takes that approach I think that's what is a little nerve-racking

And I feel like she know you could offer maybe even extra advice only because I think Dakota is gonna get a lot of Hate kind of from the audience too And I know that Brock was kind of in that situation when you first started dating him So maybe you could offer I don't know you know, when you really love your man and you don't want to see him, like, people tearing him down because he was having a bad moment on screen. Yeah, no, my current husband started on the show our ninth season.

I had already gotten engaged, married, and divorced on the show before I met him. And then the first season, we got engaged. His second season on our tenth We got married and now the audience has really grown to love him, but it's taken a few years His first year. I mean he took a Beating like the women were not letting him get away with any shit brought up everything in his past Twisted things and I, he was very hated.

OK. And I would just say, you know, if this is your man, this is your baby daddy, this is the person you want to be with, do not let what other people say break your relationship up, because it's so easy to listen to the outside noise. But I just knew at his core who he was, and I wasn't going to let things in his past or actions on the show

Determine our future. I'm like, I know who you are. You are my future and Everything's amazing now. That's so good. It's gonna be tough. It was notorious for not listening to anyone's advice So I don't think I'm worried about that. No, she thinks she wants to do the opposite of what you tell her Well, I guess he that that. She thinks she wants to do the opposite of what you tell her. Well, I guess that is his biggest fear right now. He's like, you know, he's kind of been panicking, like stressed, anxious. So why is it, do you think you'll be hated? No, I mean, you know, I just think one,

first what I love about these like women led shows is like you guys are the breadwinners. And so already I think like people are like really empowered by that, because I think that we have a different perspective. Like we're coming this, we know trad wise right now. We know a lot of that. And so to see like you guys are taking care of the household but then sometimes you see the men still controlling

and then you get really angry because you're like you don't even pay for the bills. Like out of my face. And so when they get that controlling I think that's where it'll come from. Where it's like I Runs shit over here. Yeah, so I think it'll be a lot of more more of that. Okay. Yeah, I Just I know he's like really stressing and I'm like it is what it will be the most hated

More I felt like front and center but Zack yeah, like can we talk about him for a second? Oh, I feel for him, because that's all I've heard, so. Yeah, I mean, I know you said that controlling men give you the ick. I was gonna say the ick. I didn't know if I said that, but I was like the ick. Yeah. So, obviously, I know you and Dakota, are you guys in a better place now?

I feel like we are, but I don't know how he feels behind the scenes. He probably hates me. He hasn't seen the show yet. but I don't know how he feels behind the scenes, he probably hates me. He hasn't seen the show yet. But I don't know exactly, trust me when I tell you. I've told my husband this so many times, I'm like, he's gonna hate me. Is he gonna hate me?

Well, no, but I will say that car ride scene was awkward. You look like you're being a good friend. Oh my God. Trust me, it was awkward. Should we get a soda? Oh no. I was like, what do we do? I'm so confused.

But in the finale, it shows you on the phone with Jenna and she says, I'll tell you everything. Did she reveal? I can't say you guys. We have to wait till season two. I'm not saying say what, but she revealed something. You're saying, without saying it. Okay.

We'll see. I can't give anything away. See, you're already good at this. I've been instructed to keep these lips sealed on that finale. Media trained. Okay, so then we'll go back to Zach. Also, I notice whenever Jen is on the screen, it has her full name, Jen Affleck. Is that for, like, clout?

Probably. I'm like, why do we have her full name? You guys don't refer to her as Jen Affleck. No. No. It's weird. Yeah. Everyone is just first name, but then the whole to her as Jen Affleck no no it's weird yeah everyone is just first name but then the whole season it's Jen Affleck interesting I guess she met Ben no I think he's only like a third cousin okay I don't even think they've ever even seen him before does he know that

they like that's great yeah okay well back to Zach so before going to Chippendales he told Jen that that being divorced and taking care of two kids would be tough. And then after you guys were all there, he's still threatening her with this. She disappears at 2 a.m., re-emerges the next day. He like has gambling issues. I mean, it seems like there's a lot. But with her saying she's gonna step away now from MomTalk, who's paying for medical school? Not him, I don't think. Oh yeah, I don't know. It's definitely her, her in-laws, I think.

I know they help them. Her in-laws? I think so. I mean, I can't, I don't wanna speak. Oh yeah, her and his parents paying for other. Yeah, I don't wanna speak for her, but I'm assuming. Well, that's what, cause I mean I can't I don't want to speak for her but I don't I'm assuming well that's what I mean it was very clear I mean she was taking care of the household while he yeah you know he had ten more ten more

years of school yeah he doesn't want her to do mom talk I'm like I don't know how this is gonna work like this this is the money yeah so I'm sorry twenty five hundred dollars to go gamble Brock's lucky if he would get a hundred dollars from me. Same with my husband. I felt cheap too, because I think I gave Dakota hair of gauze and fun. It was literally nothing. And it was like, oh, when she said that, I was like,

dang, I feel bad. Especially if he had a gambling problem. You're going to give him $2,500. I was floored when she said that. I was like, you're kidding, right? Wild. No, I can't with that situation. All right, moving on. You've both been very open, sharing your motherhood

journeys, you with your postpartum struggles, and you with your fertility path. So a couple of questions for you. Taylor, when did you first realize that you were struggling with your postpartum mental health and has each pregnancy been a different experience for you? I would say they've all been pretty much the same until this last one. I think obviously for like in my situation, I'm like not married this time, going through

all this stuff on top of it. I think it's like messing with me a little bit more. So my son Ocean, I think he's four now, but I feel like at that time, that's when we kind of started like messing around, you know, and so I've, I might've been like so distracted, I didn't even realize that my mental health is like not good. And then I think at that point when everything blew up,

like obviously my mental health is not good. And then this time around, I feel like going through all this stuff, it's more like situational. So I can't really say if it's just like the hormones but I feel like definitely I think my the world is very loud like I feel like there's a lot going on around me so I feel like it's hard to like pinpoint like I asked my psychiatrist I'm like can you help me to figure out like where do you think I'm like really

strong she's like it's just hard because there's something new like every time there's a lot there's like a loud pass too you know so just trying to navigate it and give you the tools of like this is like how you handle situations and whatnot But I don't think there's like a time I can say that I noticed no EMDR therapy though. I will say heavy incredible. I mean it's it's intense Yeah, but I've done that as well and I feel like weights lifted off me after I've done it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's weird it kind of gets you like through your fears they say they try to put it in your face so you like can get through it. Yeah. I've

only done a little bit I've been done like major work on that but I yeah I've been in going like my psychiatrist like which is really cool cuz they they tell a lot of brain like scientific like things you know where therapists are there to help you mentally but like this one's like this is why you're feeling this way because this was triggered and it's like really cool to be like I'm not crazy like my brain was like literally like being yeah like you know it's really cool to learn but absolutely anyways how is your IVF journey going Macy? It's good we have two babies in the freezer okay so in my unthought those

suckers this year I don't know I'm still deciding. There's so much going on and I keep delaying. I was supposed to, well not supposed to, but I was gonna try to get pregnant last summer. Everything going on, I was just like, we're gonna maybe film, maybe not. And I was like, well I don't wanna really be pregnant. I don't wanna see that. Until I waited and then now it came,

like this next summer and I was like, ah, there's just so much going on. You know, so I feel like I always delay and I think it's just scary cause like the unknown, like we have two embryos and I want two more kids, like, well I want it to work, you know? So yeah, so right now we're just kind of waiting until we're like ready.

I don't know when that will be, but it might be this year, it might be next year. We'll see. Well, I'm sending you all the good vibes. Yes, all the vibes. What was the inspiration behind starting Baby Mama? So you have natal nutrition gummies for moms. I'm so mad I was gonna bring you some

and I completely forgot. I'll send you some. Just give me your address, I'll send them over. Yeah, perfect, I would love that. Even if you're not trying to have a baby, I know you said you're done. Yeah, I froze my eggs. I love it.

We're deciding right now. My husband just got his sperm evaluated, which we got a call actually today from the doctor, and he said he's never seen sperm so good. Oh, hell yeah. Brock got that good sperm. Yeah, he's like, whatever he's doing, I was like, and he didn't listen to doctor's orders.

He did the cold plunge the night before, he went in the sauna, he did everything the doctor said don't do, and he was like, 191 million, somebody did it. I was like, wait, what? So I'm like, great, you know, cause if I was like, wait, what? So I'm like, great. Cause if they said like, oh, I don't know, then we're like, okay, we're good one and done. But we're having the surrogate talk.

And we'll see. But I also struggle with if we, you know, thaw all of the eggs, fertilize them all. Like, what if I have six embryos and we only want one more kid? So hard. So I was almost happy I got two, cause I was like, I want two more kids

and I don't have to have that decision, you know? And what we were thinking we would do if we got a ton is to tell a doctor, like put in the healthiest one, don't tell us if it's a boy, girl, whatever, just put whatever is healthiest in and like, we'll see what happens kind of thing. But the reason why I started BabyMama is cause I, cause doing IVF, I did IVF the first time in 2019,

we ended up getting one embryo. But during it, I was like, why do I feel like there's nothing to take for this? Specifically for before you're pregnant. Your doctor would just take your prenatal. And when you go to your postpartum checkup, it's like, oh, just take a prenatal. Why isn't there something specific

for where I'm at in my journey? And that's what kind of sparked Baby Mama. Because I don't love taking pills, I will, but I feel like gummies are kind of a treat. They're so much better. So much better. And so I wanted to of sparked Baby Mama. And cause I don't love taking pills, I will, but I'm like, I feel like gummies are kind of a treat. They're so much better. So much better. And so I like, I wanted to make them super clean. I was like, make them the cleanest they can be

without tasting like absolute garbage. And so I feel like that's what we did. They still taste good, but they're like vegan, gluten-free, non-GMO, like all the things. And so we have Fertile Mama, which is before you get pregnant, but you can also take it if you're not wanting to have babies anymore, cause it's supposed to be good for like PMS and like all those kinds of symptoms. Cause it has like chaseberry in it which is known to be good for that

And then our prego mama is like your typical prenatal like with all the vitamins and stuff you need But we also have raspberry lace which is how supposed to help tone your uterus and get you ready for birth And then we have new mama Which is our postpartum gummy and we have certain ingredients to help with like milk supply like water retention after birth and different things Like that and like obviously all the vitamins you need to like, you know, survive. So, yeah, so I'm super happy with how everything went. Launched on the show and that was chaos trying to launch a brand on the show. Like when I tell you, I think my hair was like falling out everywhere.

Like I'm not even kidding. But it was really worth it just to get it done. And yeah, now we're just really working hard on the back end. Well, congratulations. Thank you. And it's great that they were able to show this on the show because I mean, that's just gonna reach so many more people. That's the hope.

Yeah, your website would have been ready. I was grinding to get it ready for the show, trust me. Yeah. No, so exciting. Congratulations. Thank you. All right, couple more things to wrap it up. I have to know, what did you think of the pregnancy stick in the cake?

Okay, well we haven't seen it. I know I heard about excited I heard with her for interviews and I was like Whitney told her family that she was pregnant It was one she peed on it was the one she peed on I'm like a germaphobe in general. I was like you could not pay me to eat that cake. I'm sorry. Yeah, I haven't seen it. That's so funny. Yeah, I think it's funny, but I'm such a germaphobe. Like I, yeah, I couldn't. Can we say where Whitney and Jen are with MomTalk?

It's hard to say. I feel like we don't even know because I feel like they'll tell us one thing, but I don't know what they're thinking. They change their minds a lot. It's like yes. No. Yes, of course And it's like I don't know so I have no idea I guess we'll have to wait and see even for us Are people trying to like join mom talk are people coming up and like wanting to be your friends like literally applying and trying To be yeah, it's weird. Actually. I've had so many people that come out from like I haven't heard of from a long time

They're like, let's hang out. Let's catch up and people really trying I'm like this is kind of weird Yeah, you're gonna get that even more now with the show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting I was like yeah, it looks like a fun group And I think when it was going on to like there's some people who make videos about us because they didn't like us because it seemed Like we were like mean girls. I'm making these videos together It's like it's not inclusive for the all but it's like we would love for every mom in Utah County to come or in Utah. But like, how can we find a venue?

Like, how can we like? I don't think people understand. We were doing this like for collaboration, for a career. And then like it's also we became friends, like doing it. And so some people thought it was like mean girl vibes. I feel like that's our biggest misconception. Yeah. Yeah. But like, I feel like it's the opposite.

No one's more or something. I mean, yeah. But we're nice. I feel like for the most I feel like it's the opposite no one's more. I mean yeah, but we're nice I feel like for the most part like it's yeah No, no, you're not. I'm actually like I thought you were gonna be so much more mean really and I'm like wait you're too nice Yeah, I mean I get told that so much especially like as in person They're like you're so much nicer than I thought and I was like I must come off as a bitch on cuz I'm like I told that to my whole life I think you just have bad RBF for something. Yeah They love to hate you hate on a pretty girl who can dance and puts it all out there

You know, I can't dance I could twerk, but I can't do anything else Yeah, you tell me do a tick-tock dance. Don't sign me up Yeah, but also it's like if you did include, you know, every Mormon mom, I mean, it would just become like a flash mob. Yeah. You know, it's not realistic. Yeah, exactly. It's not. Unfortunately, we would love that. And no, I think, yeah, it would be so much fun.

I think that's what's hard as a like people think are mean because of that. But I'm like, what could we do? I don't know how we're supposed to know. And we kind of all gathered the group because we knew which ones this was a career for, and that took it very seriously. So those were the ones that were like, yeah, let's do this, you know? But others are doing it for fun and great, and that's awesome, but we're doing this for work too.

It's not worth our time. Yeah. What is the content schedule like? How often do girls get together? Who comes up with the ideas? Yeah, we all come come with our own ideas. I feel like lately I'm the one hosting. I feel like I'm trying to keep it alive.

Well, not necessarily, but I always end up hosting. I have really huge windows. The lighting. Who's the best lighting? We always go for the lighting, right? For sure. But everyone comes with their own ideas. And so we usually do one person at a time,

do your group video, and everyone gets one before people get two. Although some people break that rule. Not you, but like other people in the group will like, I have another one. We're like, wait a second. Not everyone's gotten one yet. You gotta wait your turn. So we go one at a time.

And then like, if you want to make babies with certain people, you can break off and do that. But yeah, group, group ones first. And yeah, and I feel like matching has always been our thing. Like, I feel like it catches the eye. Like you're like, this is weird. This what will go back, you know, and I like notice that it like grabs people's attention. I feel like it's weird eye. You're like, this is weird. We'll go back, you know? And I notice that it grabs people's attention. I feel like it's weird. I don't know why.

It does that. And so we're planning on doing it even tonight. At our premiere, we're all wearing the same color for both of our premieres. Wait, I love that. We're just not helping our cult situation. Yeah, people are definitely, they see the blue jackets, now they're gonna see the matching dresses.

Yeah, it's gonna be bad. So cute. Well, I can't wait to see that content. So we obviously, we have the new show, to the matching dresses. Yeah, it's gonna be bad. So cute. Well, I can't wait to see that content. So we obviously, we have the new show, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives full season now available on Hulu, where you can find Taylor, Macy and all of the girls.

But tell me what's next for you all, Taylor. Any plans to get married? I'm just taking it day by day, I will say. I feel like everyone's gonna wanna know with how the season is. I know, and honestly, I need to see the season. We'll see if Dakota wants to stick by my side after. Is he pressuring you?

No, no, he's anxious, so I really want him to see the show and see if he really wants to be with me after, because I'm so scared, I don't know how it looks. Because his fear is, I'm like, he's like, I fear that I really show that I'm like in love with you and I want this and I fear that you look like you want nothing to do with me. And that's like how he thinks. And that's not the case. Like, I'm just scared of marriage, like, especially after what I went through. I just want to, you know, get through these hard times and then, you know, do that.

Because look at, you know, I just ended a marriage. Yeah. I just want some time. That's all I want Yeah, yeah good. Yeah, it's been his fear, but yeah taking a day-by-day reality. Yeah, it's very I think he knows He's like a lot. It's a lot on a relationship Yeah, and and we're that's why we're in this heavy therapy like yeah, because we want to for our son at least try I'm like we love each other. We've had like our differences But right now it's like I don't want another broken home for another child of mine. Yeah. So I will do whatever it takes to like get through this.

Yeah. Well, I think everything I know you haven't seen it all yet, but every conversation that you have, the things that you express to him that, you know, you still worry about, still think about, I think it's all so relatable. And like, you definitely understand where you're coming from. It doesn't look like you don't wanna be with him or anything like that. It just looks like you have a past and there are some things in the beginning

of the relationship and I think it's all very clear. So. Okay, good. Yeah, I didn't want it to come off differently, but. No. Yeah, it's been a rough, we're taking it day no yeah, it's been a rough routine a day by day That's all I guess I did I did that's all you can do exactly I think you come off like I think you will change opinions for people who might have had an opinion about you Yeah, I think that you will change their opinion and they will become obsessed with you really I think so too

Good both of you. Yeah, Macy's like most of you. Yes. I'm like voice of reason. Yeah No, I've been told like you're the peacemaker It was such a fun season to watch I really enjoyed binging it I Watched the first I was like shit now. I got to watch all of them. Oh my god, I couldn't stop Well, you're like me like oh, this is in tear apart here soon. Let's stay tuned It's not like housewives are gonna be jealous. There's like new queens. I know.

I know. Younger new queens. Uh oh. Well, thank you ladies so much for being here, getting into some shenanigans with us. I know you have a premiere party to get ready for. Yes. I can't wait to see the TikToks later. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm gonna go binge your show. Yes. You've got a lot. Same. Yes. I'm gonna be like your show. Yeah, same. You've got a lot. Yeah, so like catch up. I'm gonna be like, well, I was just on podcast, what the heck? So thank you for having me. Yeah, of course.

Thank you. Thank you, and thanks for listening and watching you guys. Be back next week, bye. Thanks for listening to Shenanigans with Sheena Shay. Tune in next time for juicy updates from the world of reality TV, pop culture, and more. Download new episodes every week on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen.