Secretly Incredibly Fascinating - Duct Tape

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

Alex Schmidt and Katie Goldin explore why duct tape is secretly incredibly fascinating.Visit http://sifpod.fun/ for research sources, handy links, and this week's bonus episode.Hang out with us on the new SIF Discord: https://discord.gg/wbR96nsGg5Hear Alex's new "explainer podcast" about all things MaxFun: https://youtu.be/6kNplapKs-w (It's uploaded to YouTube because he filmed his face while he taped it.)

Duct Tape. Known for being sticky. Famous for being fixy. Nobody thinks much about it, so let's have some fun. Let's find out why Duct Tape is secretly incredibly fascinating. Hey there, folks. Welcome to a whole new podcast episode, a podcast all about why being alive is more interesting than people think it is. My name is Alex Schmidt, and I'm not alone. I'm joined by my co-host, Katie Golden. Katie, how you doing? How's it going? Good. Sticking together. That's the thing someone normally starts a conversation with, right? Yeah, all kinds of words that have double meanings involving tape. Last time we taped

making audio, I said something along the lines of like, the next one's about duct tape. And that was hard for you to hear, obviously, because it's like difficult words. You were like, tape the tape with the what? We're going to tape about ducks. Which is also a goal I have explicitly set on some episode, like ducks would be a good topic. Yeah. And this one, Katie, what is your relationship to this topic or opinion of this topic of duct tape? Duct tape.

Well, once when I was at summer camp, I made some sandals out of duct tape. Cool. There was not a lot of arch support. They were a little bit sticky because you got to like when you make duct tape clothing, you got to make sure that you cover the adhesive entirely. Otherwise, it's going to still be sticky. So I didn't do that. So they were still kind of sticky and would stick to my feet and then would also get a bunch of hair stuck to them. But they were technically shoes. So I was thrilled that I made shoes out of duct tape. Wow. Here I was thinking that the wallet I made in middle school,

where I also did not totally cover the adhesive properly, I was like, that's a pretty tough experience. But the human foot, boy, wow. Yeah. I could have skipped a few steps and just taped some duct tape to the bottoms of my feet. It's like, there we go. Permanent shocks. And when you made the sandals,

were you encouraged to do that by counselors or something? Or was that just your own idea? Yes. They gave us a bunch of rolls of duct tape and they were like, go have fun. We're going to smoke some weed. Okay. Listeners, write in if you have stories like this. I was at summer camp one year, and they made us do a game, big, huge quotes around it, called Trench Warfare, which is that we were divided into two teams, and we were supposed to each dig a better hole in the sand on the beach.

Just a giant pit. And then I think they just did that so we'd be occupied and the counselors could go do whatever they wanted. each dig a better hole in the sand on the beach, just a giant pit. And then I think they just did that so we'd be occupied and the counselors could go do whatever they wanted. But I only understood that like 10 years later telling that story. Yeah, that's what that was for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I love those games that are like, all right, this is going to take you a while, huh? Boy, wow. Well, have fun with that. No, no, I'll watch you from over here. Yeah. Way over here yeah way over here it was it was one male counselor and one female counselor and i am almost positive they went and hooked up while we played trench warfare i think that makes sense they had their own trench warfare in the back of a kia sorrento i don't know if that's a car. Is that a car? Sounds like a car. Pretty sure.

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, duct tape crafts. I definitely did that. Also, when I was a kid, shout out to Canada. They have a sketch comedy TV show called The Red Green Show, where the characters do everything with duct tape. And it's sort of a bit, but it's also sort of a real thing. I think men, especially in the U.S. and Canada, are seen as people who just do and solve everything with duct tape. It's sort of a trope. Right. It's like, uh-oh, psychological problems. Well, I'll just put some duct tape on that.

Yes. buy rolls and rolls of duct tape instead of going to therapy. And then they'll use that duct tape, I guess, on their brain. Not sure how. It's like, it's a funny joke. Like, ah, they use duct tape for everything, maybe for their emotional problems. But then what does that look like? Yeah. Just a bunch of duct tape on your face. So you don't smile.

I know what it is. You put it, you smile, and then you duct tape that smile in place. Because, you know, it takes fewer muscles to smile than to frown when you've duct taped your smile in place. And it takes no muscles. I'm imagining somebody saying that as a saying, but their mouth is covered in duct tape. So it's just, you know, they can't get it out. Who's holding you hostage? No, no, no, no.

And the structure of this episode this week, it's all of the takeaways and then stats and numbers at the end. And I particularly wanted to do this first takeaway first because my one other duct tape association is, I think our Midwestern pronunciation, especially growing up, it's just sort of all one word. Like you bleed, duct tape, the T's are just kind of a thing. The tape.

Yeah. Perfect Chicago accent. And people say this tape a bunch of different ways, and it turns out you're allowed, more or less. Because here we go into takeaway number one. The first name for this kind of stuff was Duck Tape. Oh, okay. As in duck like the animal.

Okay, okay. Then I wasn't wrong as a child to say Duck Tape. Huh. They're like both valid and the name duct tape like the animal has a longer history and is where this started. Okay, so I get duct tape, right? Because it's tape that you put on a duct, I guess, to tape up the duct. Yeah, theoretically. But then why was it duct tape at one point?

Did we tape ducks together to make like a mega duck, a huge honker? Would you rather fight 100 duck-sized horses or the mega duck I've constructed? Right. And then it's just behind me scream quacking, like quack, quack. scream quacking like, ah, quack, quack.

Unfathomable bills all flapping and honking and wanting peas. Yeah, it turns out, and maybe like craft supply people know this or people who handle a lot of textiles, but for more than a 100 years now, there has been a heavy cloth that is woven together, but not really refined. And this heavy cloth is called duck, like the animal, the same word. I got some duck cloth. Oh, there you go. Yeah, I'm not handy. So I don't know these things. But I do now from researching. Yeah, it's like a canvas material, sort of. But I do now from researching. Yeah, it's like a canvas material, sort of. Yeah.

And so like the first tape along these lines and a similar tape to the duct tape we have today was an adhesive tape with cotton duck backing. Aha. And so they called it duck tape. Okay. Then why would we change that perfect name? I think it's sort of, we'll talk about it being the bleed of history and also the use of it. Like in the 1950s, 1960s, people started finding duct applications in their homes and in construction. But also I think it's because the words are super similar.

Right. And then also in the mid-1900s, people started adding plastic as like a top layer to make this tape even more waterproof. And so then even to this day, duct tape is basically three things. It's a glue and then a middle layer of fabric or mesh and then plastic on top. So once the plastic's on top, it doesn't feel cloth, but you don't think about the cloth element so much. And we kind of lost the cotton duck meaning in our heads. Right. But counterpoint, saying duct tape is hard and feels bad. We're saying duct tape sounds great and feels good in my mouth. Yeah. In Chicago, we just made it one word, like duct tape. Duct tape.

Duct tape. Yeah. Keep having the duct tape. Yeah. It's like when Germans make a word out of five words that we're all squished together into a thing. Oh, yeah. And this tape, it's much older than I expected. It turns out that the early 1900s were a big time of tape innovation, especially in the U.S. This is a big U.S. story as far as the inventors go.

One key inventor was Richard Drew, who was born in 1899. And he became the leading tape guy for what was called Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing. And that's now called 3M because that's shorter, Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing. And that's now called 3M because that's shorter, Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing. But in the 1920s and 30s, he invented scotch tape and invented masking tape. I see. So we just started like we presumably adhesive was the thing, right? Like the thing that we kind of first came up with this adhesive that didn't like wasn't a liquid, could be stored at room temperature and just kind of stayed there.

And then we're like, hey, you can stick things to it. It can come stuck to a thing and then you can stick that thing to another thing. The sticky possibilities are endless. Exactly. Tape adhesive, including duct tape, one of its big features is that there's no chemistry going on. Like the adhesive doesn't change states or anything when you do it. Finally. Hate doing chemistry. Yeah. Also, boo, I'm doing a study hall instead. I'm not taking anything. But yeah, so like that's why duct tape, you can put it on and rip it off because the glue just stays exactly the same as it was.

It doesn't alter what it's on. You know, there's like residue sometimes. Not on your arm it doesn't. Oh, no. It's like it won't alter anything. Great. Put this right over my eyebrow and rip it off. Alex told me this wouldn't alter the surface it was on.

We should have UK to tape a lawyer commercial. Like, have you been harmed by what Alex said about duct tape? Call, and then there's a big phone number below you, and you're in front of books. 1-800-STICKY-SITUATION. We'll bring this Alex Feller to justice. and and with this tape inventing separately from developing scotch tape masking tape and stuff more than a hundred years ago inventors and engineers came up with hey what if it's adhesive attached to strips of this heavy cloth because then that's pretty tough it's pretty waterproof and they named it cotton duck tape or just duck. There's references to it as early as 1902.

There's an issue of the Brooklyn Daily Eagle newspaper. In 1902, they reported that crews constructing the Williamsburg Bridge across the East River, those crews used 100,000 yards of cotton duck tape. Because it was relatively all weather and tough. Wait, for the final bridge? Yeah, apparently like the final bridge was partly taped together. And I figure they updated that. I'm sure we're not still using that same tape from 1902.

Yeah, about the infrastructure in the U.S., Alex. I don't know if you've checked recently, but... Yeah. But yeah, then also that same year, 1902, the Oxford English Dictionary first added an entry for duck tape. Duck like the animal. Long, long ago, people developed this. And then it was basically a two-step process to get modern duck tape. Like step one is this cotton duct backing tape.

And then step two, people added plastic in the mid-1900s. And then it created that kind of feeling and synthetic situation you expect from a modern roll of the gray stuff. The smooth feel of a nice roll of duct tape. Sounds like, I don't know, a cigarette commercial. But yeah, it's interesting. So I guess we don't really have like fabric tape anymore or do we, like, do we still ever use fabric based tape? We do. And a lot of duct tapes, it may not be cotton fabric. It might be synthetic, but there's still some kind of mesh, some kind of fabric in there. It's just not obvious because it's so visually smooth and so plasticky.

So it's still also sort of this thing from way, way back when, which is part of why you can call it duct tape. It's that vibe. Ah, cool. It's kind of like, I mean, I guess that we still have band-aids that are kind of a fabric-y thing. So it's a similar situation, adhesive on a fabric thing. And then you try to wash your hands and then it gets all wet. Yeah. And you're like,

I want to stop wearing this immediately. Yeah. You take it on and you put a new one on and it feels so good. But then you wash your hands again. You're like, ah, why did I, why did I enter into this cycle? I think I've had the thought like, I'm just not going to have wounds anymore. That'll fix it. Yeah. I'll just perfectly move through the world. Yeah. I've imagined a very tiny Band-Aid that just is so small it fits right over the cut and nothing else.

But I guess that probably wouldn't work. That's some Star Trek stuff. But then they invent it like next year and I sound silly, you know? But it's just a miniaturized band-aid. Same as a big band-aid, just little and tiny for little surgeries. Impossible. It can never be done. That I'm mocked on the future podcast about it.

And yeah, and this name too, there's one other possible origin story people bring up, even though we know Cotton Duck is where it came from. The name also might have partly come from the vibe around the animal ducks and specifically how they handle water. Oh. Because one way this tape was valued is its relative waterproofness or total waterproofness. And ducks are famous, at least trope-wise, for water running off their backs very easily and just handling water smoothly. So there could be a cultural component, too, of people saying it's as water-resistant as a duck. Wow. Right. I know that old saying, it's as water-resistant as a duck. That's definitely what that saying is, Alex. That's what they say. And not a different one that they saying. It says water resistant as a duck. That's definitely what that saying is, Alex. That's what they say.

And not a different one that they say. It's water resistant as a duck. Hey, I'm visiting your planet, okay? I just got here. And the other thing with that, a few people have reasonably suspected that the Duck brand led to kind of this name. Because there's at least a U.S. brand called Duck Tape with a yellow duck logo. But I'm citing ABC News Channel 5 in Ohio. They covered the founding of that company back in 1980.

So the company is much newer than the name. It's just coming from that, not the other way around. Just like we're going to bring ducks back into the equation, which was the right move. They're great. I'm very pro-duck. Let's make an episode about it soon. They're just cool, but I don't know that much about them other than the saying everyone says and Daffy Duck and a few other things. You're going to have to be very specific when you say a duck taping, because I do have tapes and I do have access to ducks. So the mega duck will be a reality unless you're very specific in your phrasing.

Yeah. I'll be drafting that email for years. I just got to get it right. Well, and off of that, the next takeaway here is busting a myth. Most of the Internet will tell you a big myth about this origin. So takeaway number two. There's a widespread Internet myth about a factory worker mom inventing duct tape. And the myth also claims she personally convinced President Franklin Delano Roosevelt to popularize

it. Interesting. That does sound like a story that one would make up on the internet, where it's like, and then FDR walked in the room, and that man was Abraham Lincoln. And then everyone clapped. And then JFK cried. And he's still alive, by the way. And he's alive. And he's the, whenever you use duct tape, JFK smiles. Forward, forward, forward, forward, forward, forward, forward from your aunt. Yeah, and this sort of predated the internet. The main sources for the actual information in the first part were the blog of former Boston Globe newspaper editor Jan Freeman, Field & Stream, and Smithsonian Magazine. They have actual information about this.

But this myth has come from a couple places. One of them is the Johnson & Johnson Company, which is not today a maker of duct tape, but used to be around World War II, where this myth is set as a story. And then this also popped up in one New York Times column in 2003. And then also it just gets regurgitated every few months by the Today I Learned subreddit on Reddit. It's not true, but they keep posting it. And they do that with a lot of stuff. I recommend unfollowing that sub. It's technically true that they learned it today, but it doesn't mean they learned the right thing.

They just learned a lot of wrong stuff. That's true. But they did learn it that day. Today I learned the right thing. They just learned a lot of wrong stuff. That's true. But they did learn it that day. Today I learned the moon is made out of cheese. I did learn it. I learned it. Yeah. It's still learning when it's wrong.

As we said, this tape started around 1902, possibly earlier. Like, that's when it was first written about. Misinformation's tricky. I'm going to like as briefly and marked as fake as possible, say the fake story so that when you see it, you recognize it and know. Do you want me to say every few seconds say fake so that nobody reproduces you out of context? Sounds good. Yeah. No one can call into your lawyer ad for further damages about this harmful episode. Yeah. So the fake claim, very briefly, is that a U.S. World War II factory worker who was also a mother of troops, like, invented cloth waterproof tape, specifically to hold together ammunition boxes that's easier for troops to handle and then saves their lives more in the field. Then the myth says that she wrote a letter to President Franklin Delano Roosevelt

because her- Fake, he didn't exist. No. He stole four elections. We got to tell people. It's all- People loved Wendell Wilkie. He was huge. He was so beloved. Anyway, but then the myth says that her employer, Johnson and Johnson, did not listen to her idea. But then her letter to FDR reached his desk, won him over personally. And then like President FDR used wartime powers to order Johnson & Johnson to develop and make this tape. That's the gist of the myth is that a lady like overcame her employer to save the troops by personally talking to FDR. And Jesus himself came down and said, lo, thou shalt use this duct tape and you will call it duct tape, not duct tape.

He who calls it duct tape is not welcome in my kingdom of heaven. Nope. Yeah, it's like that where this myth has a bunch of characters. And especially that first takeaway did not have characters. I'm sorry, but that's how it went. And the factory worker is a real person who we're about to talk about. Her name is Vesta Stout. That's a great name.

An interesting name, Vesta Stout. Love it. It's a perfect name. Like what really happened is a lot more ordinary. And again, did not invent duct tape, did not make it a popular product. And Johnson & Johnson, their main source for their website stuff that's still up about this is a descendant of Vesta Stout. Like this is clearly just family lore nonsense that people want to be true because it's just more interesting. You know, my aunt came up with Dippin' Dots

because she saw some ice cream and then she saw some peas and then she was like, what if ice cream was small peas? And her name, D golden albert einstein what yeah but and here's here's what actually happened so again various people invent duct tape about 40 years before world War II. It was definitely around. There are a lot of cases of parallel invention.

Yeah, because it's also kind of easy to invent. It's glue on cloth. There's refining to do, and eventually people add a plastic layer, but it's not that hard to think of. We've already had the cloth for a long long time and then glue was somewhat more recent, but then we've got a, like, you know, more shelf stable glue. So then that kind of is, you know, yeah. Bing, bang, boom. You got yourself some duct tape. Yeah.

It's, you can just slap it together and then make sure it doesn't stick together because you want to use it. That's it. Right. Don't slap on the sticky part yet. Yeah. But they, yeah, and so this existed. And then also the Johnson & Johnson Company was already making adhesive and waterproof tapes in the 1930s, before this too. And then what happened is there were various U.S. munitions suppliers

in World War II. Some of them used adhesive waterproof tape to seal the boxes. Others used a combination of wax and paper tape because the wax is waterproof and the paper tape holds it. And then Vesta Stout was a real factory worker at a factory doing the wax and paper. She really had sons in the military and really wrote a letter to the president asking him to use better tape and cloth back tape instead of this like wax combo. And she also received a reply letter responding positively. But it was from a war production board official named Howard Coonley. It was not fully the president of the United States writing back about tape. Right.

Man, come on. Yeah. I mean. It's just stupid. Yeah. I mean, that's still cool. And she still has the best name of any lady I've ever heard, Vesta Stout. Yeah.

And she did get them to improve the tape situation. So that's still pretty cool. Yeah. It's just she didn't like move FDR so much that he personally came to her factory and full on kissed her on the mouth. That's the new version I'm going to start sending in a chain email. The exact Times Square soldier and nurse kiss is FDR and Vesta Stout. A lot of people don't know that. I'll post it on Reddit later. Today I learned.

Yeah, and exactly. She did help one munitions supplier be more like the other munitions suppliers by bothering to write a letter. And she's also like seems like a nice lady. It also doesn't seem like she personally spread this misconception. It's other people like her descendants and Johnson and Johnson doing it. So, you know. I'm just imagining Vesta Stout as an old lady sidling up to you on a park bench going, you know, I invented duct tape and I got old FDR to kiss me right on the mouth about it. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't want to hear this.

I'm going to leave. And then I find I'm taped to the bench. I can't leave. She got me with her distracting story. Vesta Stout. She got me with her distracting story. Best of stout. She's strax again. But I'll link the articles about this, and you can see her letter and Howard Kuhnley's reply letter. Those exist, but they have just been really, really overinterpreted as more than they are.

It's one nice story and a broader, less character-driven real story. It's what it is. Thanks, Alex, for making life just a little more realistic. Great. Yeah. Nothing's fun, is my take. Things are reasonable and happen in logical ways. And there's one more takeaway here before we finish with the megastats and numbers. And it's a much more innocent misconception to break down and a much more understandable one. Because takeaway number three,

duct tape is not the recommended tape for taping ducts together. Well, no, you shouldn't tape ducts together. I was joking. I was joking before. You should never tape ducts together. That was a goof. I'm the bestest out of ducts. I'll never stop.

I'll put them all together. Okay, so ducts. God, I can't. Now trying to say ducts feels so bad and wrong. I hate it. Especially because it's a podcast, I wanted to start with duct tape and duct tape both being basically right. Because it's difficult to say them separately. It's difficult to say them separately, but ducts with a T, the metal passage inside a building for heating, cooling, ventilation, air. Right. Even though the product is called duct tape, it's basically the last thing you're actually supposed to use for sealing or patching metal ducts for air. So why are we bothering calling it duct tape?

Why do we have that extra T in there? Was it ever used for ducts for air. So why are we bothering calling it duct tape? Why do we have that extra T in there? Was it ever used for ducts? Yeah. And like this, this is not really a myth myth because it was used for ducts for like a substantial period of time. And in many cases, apparently the change from the name duct tape to duct tape starts around the 1950s. Both words are extremely similar. And also people just tried this tape for that application. It existed for all sorts of things. And around the 50s, either construction workers or homeowners, they just started saying, this is a really strong tape and maybe it works for this. And oh, it seems to be holding. Great. I'm all set. Maybe it's this thing where when you hear

duct tape, right? Like you don't tape the duck. And so you don't want to sound stupid. So you use the word that's like, no, it can't be. I couldn't have heard them say duct tape. It must have been duct tape because it's for ducts. And you don't want to be the dum-dum going around saying duct tape for ducks. And then you get bullied because you're like, ah, here's some duct tape. It's like, oh, what are you going to do? Tape some ducks? And you don't want to be the person who's getting bullied about the word duct tape.

Right. They don't want the other high school football players to tie them to a goalpost with duct tape. So they call it whatever else says. Words have meaning, nerd. Be precise in your enunciation, you nerd. Just chanting, etymology, etymology. People started trying it for ducts and then also tape manufacturers have led people to very reasonably think it's for that. There's no specific dates or people here, but manufacturers got the idea from consumers to start calling it duct tape with a T.

They printed that on the packaging. And that's also where you start seeing this tape being gray or being silver. Like the early cloth duct tape was usually just the color of undyed cloth, like a brown or a very pale gray instead of this like spacey metal color it is now. I see. Interesting. So they're tricking us into using it on our ducts. So why is it bad to use for ducts? Ducts. Ducts. So why is it bad to use for ducts? Ducts. Ducts. We're working hard for you folks, audience. We are really tongue-tied and twisted. This is a unique New York of an episode, you know? It's wild. Workplace hazard. Yeah, geez.

Both of our heads are just going to be in a sling like Jacob Marley after this. Like, ooh, ow, ooh. Was there a tongue injured in a podcast that you're recording with Alex? We'll call 1-800-STICKY-SITUATION. People are not supposed to use it for ducts for the simple reason that, again, the materials are just glue and cloth and plastic, and that is not as energy efficient as other stuff. Oh, okay. Like your house won't explode or nothing.

Okay, yeah, that's what I thought was going to happen. Yeah, and if you're thinking of the duct work you have done with this tape, don't sweat it. You're just basically paying a higher energy bill than you need to. Someone just is in the middle of ripping down all their ducts and they're like, oh. So it just is not very efficient. It's not very insulating or something. Yeah. The stuff you're supposed to use is mostly metallic, like either a metal back tape or other metallic seals and barriers because the ducts are made of metal. And so it's a more complete seal and a system as good as the duct if you're using other metal to put it together.

Oh, OK. Makes sense. There's like foil back tapes that exist and purpose built stuff for this. It's just really a useful tape that people gave this name. And in all my life, I've never used it for duct work. I've only used it for wall work. I've only used it for wallets and putting boxes together and other random stuff, you know? Making sandals.

Sandals, yeah. And there's also a landmark scientific study for getting this message out there. Because in 1998, a scientist named Max Sherman, who has a PhD in physics, but was studying home energy efficiency at Berkeley National Labs, part of the U.S. Department of Energy. He was doing just all kinds of home energy efficiency studies, and one of them examined duct sealants. And in just this little study they put out, because they were like, great, we figured it out. They tried many different options for sealing and found duct tape to be the least efficient by a ways. Oh, all right. Just energy-wise, that's it. Should call it not duct tape then.

And that hook set off a media frenzy. Apparently, the scientist Max Sherman got interviewed by CBS, NPR, MSNBC, the Associated Press, Canada's CBC, and more. Wow. And it just became national and global news that duct tape is not for ducts. And it's fun. You know, it's a fun thing to learn. I guess that's a lesson for anyone who's writing research. If your results are like mildly amusing, you're going to get huge media play.

Big time. And he even said he learned a lot from how the media will pull one line of a study. Oh, yeah. One line of their study accidentally made this seem a lot more sensational because in like a clinical description of the relative energy efficiency of duct tape, they said that duct tape, quote, failed reliably and often catastrophically. Oh, yeah. Yeah. This happens a lot for medical papers as well. They take like one line from it. And these papers are often made with the other professionals in mind, right? Like it's written for, you know, I mean, in this case, I guess it might be for people who work on ducts. I'm not sure in what journal this was published,

the biannual review of duct work or something. He said it's a journal called Home Energy, which is more of an industry journal, But he said their results were so clear, they didn't even bother waiting for a more rigorous journal. They were just like, this is just so definitely accurate. We'll put it out in kind of a trade journal and get it out to construction people. Yeah. So it's for, you know, experts in the field. But then if you're a professional in that field, you'll know that isn't as scary as it is. Like catastrophic failure might just mean like air is leaking.

Yes, that was it. Not home explode. Exactly. It sounds like your place will be a fireball. But he just meant what a catastrophic loss of energy over 50 years of owning a home, which is different. But it got him on the news accidentally to a greater extent because, yeah, it just turns out that duct tape is useful for all sorts of stuff. And even the scientist Max Truman, he said, like, I have duct tape. I love duct tape.

I just don't use it for ducts. And you shouldn't. Apparently, some jurisdictions make it illegal for construction crews to use duct tape on ducts because it's just bad energy policy. It doesn't work well. And I'm linking Popular Mechanics' guide to various brands of duct tapes for various purposes. And the last one they list is duct work. And they say, if you have to use something, use this foil-backed version that is for this kind of thing. Don't use the regular kind.

So now I'm looking at a study in kidnapping Liam Neeson's daughter, biannual review of technology, and they found that duct tape is actually not that useful and catastrophically fails to kidnap Liam Neeson's daughters. I feel like what you just read is dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, taken out of context. Right? Yeah. No, I want to make it clear. It's Liam Neeson's character's daughters. I don't know if Liam Neeson has daughters, but they are not in danger. They're fine.

Don't worry about it. I'm not. Call 1-800-OOPS-I'M-IN-TROUBLE for accidentally insinuating I might kidnap someone. Then my law firm commercial is, my friend was accused of trying to kidnap Liam Neeson's actual family in real life. I kept her out of jail and I can keep you out of jail for the exact specific situation. If the tape is sticky, you must acquit. Folks, we have so many good ideas. I'm going to go get a law degree real quick.

And while we're on that quick break, we're going to do that and then come back with a set of mega stats and numbers. I'm Jesse Thorne. I just don't want to leave a mess. This week on Bullseye, Dan Aykroyd talks to me about the Blues Brothers, Ghostbusters, and his very detailed plans about how he'll spend his afterlife. I think I'm going to roam in a few places, yes.

I'm going to manifest and roam. All that and more on the next Bullseye from MaximumFun.org and NPR. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, Lodgeman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience.

One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Folks, the rest of this main show here is a huge set of fascinating numbers and statistics about this topic. We got a bunch. And the topic is

duct tape. Sticking things together. It is duct tape. Yeah, that works, I think. Got it. That name was submitted by katie gold the best and we we have new names for this segment every week please submit them through the discord or to sifpod at gmail.com make them as silly and wacky as possible because woohoo so many duct tape things here uh and speaking of silly and wacky, the first number is June 2017.

That's when this happened. June 2017. That's the year when the United States Coast Guard rescued a man and his dog who were the passengers of a homemade duct tape boat. Wow. He was paddling through like a cross water riding in a duct tape boat, but apparently it was taking on water and he needed to be rescued. Oh, well, then it's not really a boat, is it? If it doesn't float. I'm sorry.

Maybe I'm being a little bit mean. Well. Being a little harsh. Because then what you got is a pile of soggy duct tape. Not sure it counts as a boat in that instance. I guess it's along the lines of the question of the Today I Learned subreddit name, right? Like if it floated for a while. Boat? I don't know.

I can't float for a while. Am I a boat? Folks are like, oh, you like Secretly Incredibly Fasc incredibly fascinating what's it like well it has two amazing boats hosting it uh and then sometimes other boats come through as guests um you know yes that's why they call us show boats ha ha ho ho sing wow perfect uh yeah and this this story the u.s coast guard plucked a man and his dog out of the gaston and oh channel which is a waterway near juno alaska and apparently he was trying to paddle 10 miles downstream in a homemade rowboat constructed from duct tape atlas obscura notes that the man was not wearing a life jacket, but was wearing sunglasses.

Oh, OK. So that rules. But he was wearing a jacket made out of duct tape. You'd think he would make gear out of it. Yeah, he was using a regular oar in the picture, right? He didn't go all the way. Oh, come on. You got to go all in.

Make an astrolabe out of duct tape. A duct universe. Behold, that's really squishy sounding as it moves. When next number is another date, August 2021. So about a year and a half ago, August 2021, that is when United Airlines sent a memo to their crews reminding them to not use duct tape to restrain passengers. Oh. And I needed to tell them this. The Guardian covered this at the time. I thought this was going to go somewhere very different.

I thought it was going to be reminding them to not, like, duct tape the plane back together. But I guess it's a good reminder not to use duct tape to tape people to their seats. I forget sometimes. I'm like, oh, I got to tape this person to a seat. And then I'm like, wait, no, no, I don't do that. That's what seatbelts are for. And you're like, oh, yeah. The next number is actually about taping planes together. But this here, the Guardian says United's memo was sparked by a couple of things.

There was an uptick in strange behavior from passengers around August 2021. It's partly because people were sort of returning to flying now that they were vaccinated, even though the virus is still out there. But also that combined with pandemic driven stress for crews and for passengers. driven stress for crews and for passengers. And then competing airlines around mid-2021 had had multiple cases of attendance using duct tape on passengers. And so United said, we're going to get ahead of this. We're not going to be like American Airlines or Frontier Airlines that just did this to some passengers. Oh, man. I mean, I feel I feel conflicted because I do feel bad for people who work in airlines who have to deal with ornery passengers. But I do think like duct tape justice is probably not healthy. Whether it's right or wrong, it's a case of attendants just sort of reaching for duct tape as the tool they have, which is I think how duct tape is used kind of all of the time, unless you're making sandals and wallets on purpose. But American Airlines restrained a woman with duct tape because the woman was trying to open the plane's doors in the middle of the flight.

And so, like, you do want to stop them from doing that. Yeah. And so that's what they did. And Frontier Airlines restrained a man in his seat after he acted aggressively and after he allegedly grabbed an attendant's breasts. And so, you know, you can see how they got there with using duct tape this way. Yeah. I mean, could they use a different type of tape for that? Like, like passenger tape, if you name it passenger tape, then, uh, you know, well, like, like what, what did the airlines actually say? Like, what do you do in that situation? If not tape someone to a chair, because that does seem kind of the MacGyver way to do it. Exactly. I think they haven't found anything better. And it also turns out airlines, including United, have been doing this for a long time.

United's memo was not related to past instances of them doing it. But in 2003, United flight attendants duct taped a disruptive passenger who was on a across the Pacific Hawaii to LA flight. The passenger began talking and wandering the aisle and pacing and reading the Bible to the rest of the plane. And so they reached for duct tape there. I mean, that's definitely annoying to be proselytized on a plane, but I feel like that's less aggressive than trying to open a door or, like, assaulting someone. So, you know. True.

Yeah, like, it's less of a case for it. It's way less justified. Yeah. I mean, not to say I would not be reaching for that tape as soon as they say, do you have a moment to talk about Jesus? Like, well, I do have this roll of duct tape, so do you have a moment, sir?

Yeah. To talk about duct tape. Yeah. Like, like on a long flight, I don't want any passenger trying to address the entire plane about anything. There's no cause for it. Religion or anything. No, you don't get to talk to me.

I am watching Black Adam and I just want to be left alone. Right. Black Adam, and I just want to be left alone. Right. This other United story is in 2008, there was a passenger fighting attendants and grabbing other passengers. Like, yeah, you got to step in some way. Yeah. And also the Guardian points out that other flight attendant altercations with passengers have not involved duct tape. altercations with passengers have not involved duct tape. There was a really famous bad one with United in 2017, where their attendants tried to make an Asian American elder named David Dow

give up his bought and paid for seat because of some kind of airline flight swap platform. And they ended up like horribly dragging him off the plane and hurting him. But there was no tape involved. Like this stuff happens with or without duct tape too. Yeah. Like that, in that case, he wasn't doing anything. He was just sitting there in his assigned seat.

And they're like, we're kicking you off because we want to put another passenger here. And he's like, uh, no. And then they tackle him. Yeah. They really concussed him and knocked teeth out.

It was horrible. And so whatever duck role duct tape plays in the future of, Tackle him. Yeah, they really concussed him and knocked teeth out. It was horrible. Yeah, poor guy. So whatever role duct tape plays in the future of flight attendant passenger interaction, we also need to just like get that right. It's just sort of one tool that has gotten mixed up in this. Yeah. What if, I mean, here's a thought. You don't assault passengers when they're just sitting there. Number one. Number two, if someone starts proselytizing, you get out a weighted blanket, like a really heavy-weight blanket, and you're just kind of like, they're there. It's night-night times now.

now. And then you put the weighted blanket on them and they are immobilized because it's very heavy weighted blanket, but you know, it's not duct tape and maybe it'll, maybe it's soothing. That legitimately sounds like a good idea. Like I'm thinking, I'm thinking of every blanket I've ever been given on a plane is the lightest and flimsiest textile in the world. It's basically a napkin, but it's in a little bag and they treat it as special. It floats like a couple inches off. It's so light. But like, yeah, I mean, I've got a weighted blanket and if I put that thing on and I nap, I'm trapped. I'm trapped in the nap.

So like it is a form of sort of cozy imprisonment, I think. Yeah. We might have kind of solved it. We'll put this out later. I don't know. That's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. We might have kind of solved it. We'll put this out later. I don't know. That's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah.

Next week, if you've been a victim of airline-related weighted blanket incident, call 1-800-AlexAndKatieDidItAgain. We will bring those two boats to justice. Those boats. We're going to bring those showboats to harbor. those boats we're gonna bring those showboats to harbor well and as as foreshadowed the next number here is another date it is september 2022 september 2022 is the date of the latest social media flare-up around airlines using speed tape which is a different kind of tape that they use to hold planes together. Yeah.

And it does look like duct tape visually. Yeah. So what I'm looking at here is a picture of a wing that has tape on it that looks very much like duct tape on it. And not just like duct tape on it, but haphazard duct tape. Like someone was drunk trying to repair the plane going, let me see here. I got this duct tape and then just doing a really bad job of taping it together. So that would scare me. I'd be upset. I need a lot of weighted blankets in that situation.

Yeah. And this is just going on the picture. It's exactly what Katie said. It truly looks like a couch somebody tried to like fix in a frat house, but it's an airplane wing with tape all over it. Yeah. And, and this is a real phenomenon. It's a thing called speed tape. Writer James Bacalis covered this for the Washington Post because speed tape is a different adhesive that's made of aluminum.

It happens to be the same color and shininess of most duct tape, but it is very legal to use on a plane and it works. There's a pilot and safety consultant interviewed by Bacalis named John Nance, who says speed tape is durable. It's able to withstand up to 600 mile per hour winds. And the folks at 3M say their version is able to withstand moisture, fires, UV rays, corrosive chemicals. It's rated for temperatures as high as 300 Fahrenheit and as low as minus 65 Fahrenheit, which is plus 148 Celsius, minus 53 Celsius. I feel like if your plane's on fire, you got other things to worry about. Yeah. I mean, but so is it, it's not, surely it's not like a permanent solution, right?

They put it on there until they can fix it or is it permanent? Is it just like, well, this works. Perfect question. Because it is temporary. And then the one bummer with this is there have been cases of airlines being found out using it too long. But it's a, it 100% works as a temporary fix. And the idea is especially to use it on small holes and holes that are not in a critical spot. But the other number here is $805,000 US, a little over 800 grand. That's the fine levied

against our friends, United Airlines, by US regulators, because one plane in United's fleet just flew too long too many times with a speed tape solution. I see. That's, I mean, 800,000 sounds like a lot to us non-airlines, to us small little boats. But yeah, that's not much at all. That's like chump change. Yeah, I guess I didn't check what the price of one plane is, but it's probably more. So yeah, that's silly.

Oh, absolutely. Yes. Yes, it is. I'm a boat. I don't know this stuff. Yeah, the United contested this fine, but the FAA, Federal Aviation Administration, they said that a United mechanic applied speed tape to holes that were too large and also too close to the edge of the spoiler and also just not well-applied tape. And then the plane flew 193 flights before anyone stepped in or did anything about this.

To be fair, it didn't crash. It was okay, but it was something that eventually the FAA said, hey, cut it out. Like, it's not forever tape. You need to do more to make this work. Just the FAA did sort of the equivalent of your dad raising his eyebrows at you and lowering his glasses and giving you a meaningful look. And, you know, it's not punishment, but, you know, you got to knock it off. Yeah.

You know, one very last number here. Speaking of the feeling of being in high school, the final number of the episode, it's 41 rolls of duct tape and 400 plus hours of labor. 41 rolls of duct tape, more than 400 hours of labor. That's the materials and effort that went into a contest winning prom dress in 2020. Ah. So making stuff. Getting fancier than my hair covered duct tape slippers.

my hair covered duct tape slippers. This is like something I'd kind of heard of, which is that I just heard about it. Like it's a legend. Like you can make your prom dress or tux out of duct tape and get a scholarship, but that's real. The duct tape brand with the duck logo, they give a annual $10,000 scholarship for each winner for one dress, one tux that are made of duct tape. And in 2020, senior Peyton Manker of Sparta, Illinois, went all in on this, probably made the most elaborate one ever, mostly because it was the spring of 2020. Prom was canceled for coronavirus and she was home all the time. And so she just really, really got going on making a dress. And so she just really, really got going on making a dress. So that's awesome.

Good job, Peyton. But also, if you float Peyton in the ocean, is she now a boat? We don't need a limo. We're aquatically going to prom. That's how we're getting there. Yeah, and this dress is somewhat famous now because Manker said, quote, I wanted my dress to be something positive that comes out of the pandemic. The dress had a tableau of images on it, stuff like virtual graduations and frontline health workers. It's a big mural, basically.

Whoa. And she approved a request to have the dress displayed as an artifact of this era at the Smithsonian Museum. Wow, man. I feel like that's awesome. When I went to problems, I was like, wow, your dress looks like it belongs in a museum. I did not take it as a compliment. To be fair, my dress was made out of entirely the constitution of the united states just stapling renaissance master paintings together like i gotta dress now Hey folks, that's the main episode for this week. Welcome to the outro with fun features for you, such as help remembering this episode.

With a run back through the big takeaways. Takeaway number one, the first name for this kind of stuff was duct tape. Takeaway number two, there is a widespread internet and Reddit myth about a factory worker mom inventing duct tape and convincing President Franklin Delano Roosevelt to popularize it. That's a myth. That's fake. It was invented around the turn of the century. Takeaway number three, duct tape is not the recommended tape for taping ducts. Those are the takeaways. Also, I said that's the main episode because there is more secretly incredibly fascinating

stuff available to you right now. If you support this show at MaximumFun.org, members get a bonus show every week where we explore one obviously incredibly fascinating story related to the main episode. This week's bonus topic is three amazing uses of more than 11 dozen other secretly incredibly fascinating bonus shows and a catalog of all sorts of maximum fun bonus shows, it's special audio just for members. Thank you for being somebody who backs this podcast operation. Additional fun things there, check out our research sources. On this episode's page at SIFpod.fun,

key sources this week include Max Sherman, a former senior scientist at the U.S. Key sources this week include Max Sherman, a former senior scientist at the U.S. Department of Energy's Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, plus a whole slew of digital resources, in particular from Popular Mechanics, Smithsonian Magazine, and other sources that do not put out misinformation about where duct tape came from. That page also features resources such as native-land.ca. I'm using this to acknowledge that I recorded this on the traditional land of the Canarsie and Lenape peoples. Also, Katie taped this in the country of Italy, and I want to acknowledge that in my location and in many other locations in the

Americas and elsewhere, Native people are very much still here. That feels worth doing on each episode, and please join the free SIF Discord where we're sharing stories and resources about Native people and life. We're also talking about this episode on the Discord, and hey, would you like a tip on another episode? Because each week I'm using a random number generator to find something randomly incredibly fascinating. I put all the episode numbers in there, whatever it spits out is your new tip for the week.

This week's random number is 124, which is a recent show that's only a few months ago. And it's me and Katie Golden talking about Snoopy, an entire episode about Snoopy, where he came from, why he is kind of a NASA employee, fits this week's bonus show. I recommend that episode. I also recommend my co-host Katie Golden's weekly podcast, Creature Feature, about animals and science and more. Our theme music is Unbroken Unshaven by the Budos Band. Our show logo is by artist Burton Durand. Special thanks to Chris Souza for audio mastering on this episode.

Extra, extra special thanks go to our members, and thank you to all our listeners. I'm thrilled to say we will be back next week with more secretly incredibly fascinating So how about that? Talk to you then. Maximum fun.org Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Audience supported.