Secretly Incredibly Fascinating - The Name Alex

Episode Date: July 17, 2023

Alex Schmidt and Katie Goldin explore why the name Alex is secretly incredibly fascinating.Visit http://sifpod.fun/ for research sources and for this week's bonus episode.Come hang out with us on the new SIF Discord: https://discord.gg/wbR96nsGg5

The name Alex, known for being me, famous for being my name. Nobody thinks much about it, so let's have some fun. Let's find out why the name Alex is secretly incredibly fascinating. Hey there, folks. Welcome to a whole new podcast episode, a podcast all about why being alive is more interesting than people think it is. My name is Alex Schmidt, and I'm not alone. I'm joined by my co-host Katie Golden. Katie, what is your relationship to or opinion of the topic this week, which is the name Alex? I could take it or leave it. No, I'm joking. I knew non-Alexes felt that way. I knew it. I knew the non-Alexes are against us. it yeah i knew the non-alexes are against us i i mean i gotta say it's not as good of a name as katie but as far as names go it's pretty good i think you're the only alex that i know personally

i mean i i i have friend i have friends of friends named a. I'm actually attending the wedding of an Alex, but through my husband, I know him. But I think you are the first primary source, Alex, if I can remember correctly. There's a lot of us. I'm surprised. I associate the name Alex actually with Alex the gray parrot before making friends with you I had always thought of that

cool really smart parrot and now it's like oh it can also be a name for cool smart humans like Alex Schmidt who does a podcast called secretly incredibly fascinating you should listen to it man any form of being on the same podcast called Secretly Incredibly Fascinating. You should listen to it.

Man, any form of being on the same tier as Alex the Great Parrot is a huge honor. This is very nice. I freaking love that parrot. Really good parrot. So smart. Folks, this was a listener chosen topic. Thank you very much to my buddy Vivek Radhakrishnan for picking this out. And he's picked out some awesome topics for the show. Also, just so people know, I briefly kicked the tires on the name Katie or Catherine as a topic. And there's too much there. So pick that if you would like its own separate thing. It would be very fun.

But we're doing the name Alex today. My full name is Alexander. And I've pretty much always gone by Alex. There was never a time when I wanted to do it differently. You could have gone by Xander. And I find that, you know, I was about to say how much I don't like it. And I feel like that's bad for listeners named Xander. So I take it back. I mean, it's a personal taste thing, right? Like it fits certain people, but it's, taste thing, right? Like it fits certain people, but it's, it's not your vibe, not your personal vibe. Yeah. It's not for me. And my mom has told me a fun story about my name, which is that one of the reasons they picked it is that they felt like Alexander was modular. I could be

Alexander or Alex or Al. They didn't think of these other variations, but you could, you know what? You could be an Al. I'm going to say Alex fits, I think, the best, but second best is Al. Yeah, Al is all right. A few people call me that and that's cool. You'd have to grow a mustache for it to really fit, but if you grew a mustache, Al would be pretty good. Yeah, the only other thing I think about my name is I really like it. I've always been very comfortable and happy with the name Alex. I would not change it. Very into it. It feels good. I don't know if everybody feels that way about their own name, but I've just always been like, great, good name for me. Yeah. exciting for me. And I feel like a little gift from the listeners. Thank y'all for voting for it.

But we're going to get way into it. And we do have stats and numbers. This week, I want to start with a huge takeaway. I want to start with a huge takeaway about where the name Alex comes from. Takeaway number one. The modern name Alexander comes from the Greek language and from two ancient epics. Ooh, ancient and epics. I'm just piling so much power on this name. Rules. Great party for me. I mean, I know there was Alexander the Great, but that's the oldest Alexander I know of. Yeah.

the Great, but that's the oldest Alexander I know of. Yeah, researching this dispelled a myth I had told myself, because I just sort of assumed that Alexander the Great a little bit coined this name. And no, there were a bunch of people called that before him. Well, right, because the Great does, it is a modifier, right? So you imagine there were other Alex's, Alexanders before him, like Alexander the Pretty Good and Alexander the, eh, he's okay, I guess. Alexander the Passable, a guy in a Greek tunic farming. That's about it. Alexander the Middling. Yeah. And the, the key sources here are digital resources from the British Library, and also the book American Given Names by University of California, Berkeley, Professor George R. Stewart. As I said, Alexander is what's on my birth certificate. Pretty much all Alex's are either named Alexander, or that's how the name came to be for them. And it all got started from a couple of words in ancient Greek.

Alexander is an ancient Greek compound word. The first half is a verb that means to defend or to protect. And then the other half of the word is the Greek noun, which means men. It's either ander or andros. noun which means men. It's either Ander or Andros. And so the name Alexander is a compound word meaning defender of men or protector of men. Wow. Yeah. Pretty heavy responsibility to take on with the name Alexander. Does it make you feel like you should carry, you know, one of those Grecian shields up and, I don't know, fight the Romans? They did at one point, sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like one of the 300 at Sparta? The Spartans. It is that vibe, isn't it? Yeah. I don't know if people do this, but you'll do kind of the baby book thing where you look for what the book says your name means.

All names have some form of this usually. Like what in an ancient language did these words mean? And when I learned that it was Defender of Men, that was how I gave myself that Alexander the Great myth. I was like, surely this Macedonian general and king is why it's such a militant and warlike meaning, you know, but it's not it's not really it. Right. So it was given. Was it first given to like individuals or was it given to like groups of people? Like or was it like, hey, you are you're a soldier. So you're an Alexander. Like what what were sort were the first use cases of the name? Do we even

know? We do. And it turns out that this word Alexander was a personal name, kind of second. The first use of the straightforward Greek words for defender of men, Alexander, the first use of it was as kind of an honorific title. People would receive the title of Alexander, but still be named what they were already named if they were some sort of heroic defender of men, you know, about 3000 years ago, that was when they started doing it. I see. So you'd be like Dennis, the Alexander. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Or just Dennis Alexander. But that would not sound like someone's first and middle name like it does to us. It would sound like Dennis the Mighty. That's more the vibe is the thing. Wow. So could you be Alexander the, or in Greek mythology, where it's used as a title. And one of them is one of the epics that popularized this word. It's Homer's epic story, the Iliad.

Ah. First written down around the 800s BC. So, you know, approaching 3000 years old. Good old Homer. He goes around. Wait, is this the one about Ulysses? He's in there. Yeah, there's the Iliad and the Odyssey. And it's all sort of one big two part story. Yeah Okay. The Iliad's more of the Trojan War and then the Odyssey is Odysseus going back. I see. Homer is the author, right? Yeah. And somewhat mysterious as a figure. And this was probably oral tradition before it was written down, but it's ancient literature. Yeah. Yeah. Is there an Alexander in the Trojan War?

Yeah. Like early in the story before the Trojan War actually happens, the title of Alexander is given to the character of Paris. Oh. And Paris is the crown prince of the city state of Troy. He's a Trojan. So is OK. I need to relearn my Trojan Trojan lore. relearn my Trojan, uh, Trojan lore, but so Paris is the one who sort of steals away the lady or has had the lady stolen from him. Yeah. He's the lady stealer. He uses a divine contest where goddesses want a magic apple. Wow. We were just talking about apples, but he uses that divine contest to make goddesses help him seduce Helen of Sparta, who then goes to Troy and the Trojan War happens. Because Helen of Sparta had that

junk in that trunk for and just, you know, for some reason, everyone was like, hey, man, she's got so much junk in that trunk, she could start a war with all that junk in her trunk. What if I was like, and the noble title for that was Alexandra. It meant junk in the trunk. It's not true. It means the same thing for a matter of women. So is Alexandra just like the feminine form of defender of men? Yeah. Or is it like of defender of men? Yeah.

Or is it like the defender of women? Yeah, men here in most readings seems to mean that sort of antique version of the word men meaning all of humanity. It's from, I think, a patriarchal society where people are mostly thinking about men, but it means everybody. It means all of society or a city. Yeah. Right. Because I would imagine, I don't really know my Greek, but I would imagine that

andros, like androgen, is men, and then estros and estrogen is women. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's that same origin. And so there is something masculine here. But the one mythological example here, Paris, when he was born early, early in the story, his parents, the king and queen of Troy, they receive portents and prophecies that Paris is bad luck and Paris will bring doom on them. And that's because in the story he does with taking Helen and causing a war. Whoopsies. And so Paris's parents say, great, we will leave him to die in the wilderness as a baby. You know, because we don't want all that trouble.

And then he gets taken in by a friendly group of wolves. Oh, almost. Shepherds. So the humans opposed to the wolves. But yeah. Okay. I was kind of, I guess I was going more in a jungle book direction, but yeah. Oh man.

If Baloo the bear was in the Trojan war, such good tunes. It'd be such a hang. So Paris, he's found and adopted by shepherds who raise him. And then apparently as a pretty young child or a teenager, Paris battles and defeats a gang of thieves that was harassing and robbing these ordinary Trojan people. And then they thank him by giving him the honorific Alexander. But again, his name is still Paris and his name is Paris throughout the story. But he's, you know, described as a Paris Alexander by these people who are thankful to him.

I see. Alexander by these people who were thankful to him. I see. I just realized that Jason is a name in the, well, it's like Jason and the Argonauts, right? So Jason is a common name in sort of the Greek mythos, as is Alexander. And so technically, Jason Alexander is the most heroic name you could possibly conceive of. And of course, Jason Alexander, the actor or actor,

he embodies the sort of Grecian ideal of the ultimate warrior and defender of mankind. George's defended men. George's defended men. Yeah, I have it right there. Defender defending men. George is defending men. Yeah, I have it right there. Defender of men. I met him once. He was so nice.

Anyway, going on. Really? Yeah, he's great. Oh, I'm so happy to hear that. Yeah, it's good news. I always like to share that good news about various people. Another mythical figure known as Alexander was female. This was the Greek goddess Hera in some situations was called Hera Alexandros.

Oh. It was usually specifically a situation where Hera was the patron goddess of a city. Yeah. Because she was mostly worshipped for like maternal stuff. she was mostly worshipped for like maternal stuff. When I went and visited Greece, that's something I learned that like each city you would have basically a patron god or goddess. And it was almost like your home team, like your football or baseball team, and you would root for that god or goddess.

It's fun. It's cool. You get like Hera, number one team, you know, and then just have your little like togas with like Hera's logo and her number on it. mainly known as the wife of Zeus and more of a maternal goddess. But when she was a patron goddess, they also wanted her to have military powers, more or less. And so they created the concept of Hera Alexandros or Hera Alexander as a mighty Hera. There were sort of varieties of gods and goddesses, sort of like Pokemon, because they would like take on this new significance when they became sort of the patron and they were like different, different forms of the gods and goddesses.

And there could be like disagreements over what they were like. So it was very interesting. Yeah. She's like a shiny type or something. The Hera Alexandra. Like this is a Hera, but also it's an Alexander. Can you believe it? Yeah. Yeah. She's like a shiny type or something. The Hera Alexandra. Like this is a Hera, but also. A shiny goddess. But also it's an Alexander.

Can you believe it? Yeah. Yeah. Also, Katie, I like the way you pronounce Pokemon. Pokemon. It might even be right. I don't really know. It's not.

Oh, okay. I'll stop you right there. It's not. It's the thing with me. I never pronounce Pokemon right and I It's not. It's the thing with me. I never pronounce Pokemon right. And I will never will. So sorry. I really like it. Same with Mario.

Oh, yeah. The little guy. The little plumber guy. He's Mario. The Nintendo people are going to reach out. They're going to be like, can we coach you? Can we train you? Can we help?

It's like the it's like my fair lady and it's like ma re oh mario by george i think she's got it and you're just playing on 64 in the corner play it's not mario defeats wario by ge. And yeah, and so this title is the way this word happens. And then about a few hundred years go by and people more and more just take it on as a cool name for themselves. And then I was surprised to learn that it developed long before Alexander the Great. If nothing else, Alexander the Great was officially King Alexander III. There were two previous Alexanders who were kings of Macedonia. And very brief aside, I have heard the name Macedonia also pronounced as Macadonia, and I've read about why people think one way or another makes sense. I've used both on podcasts. People have been upset both times. So I'm going to stick

with the more modern Macedonia. And that's that's how we're going to say it for now. Big Macedonia is a really nice burger that has a bunch of like barley and sort of primitive grains in it. I made that up. I do really like that. It's between two shields. It's not buns.

Yeah, I do like that. people just started calling themselves Alexander. Like, yeah, I'm a bit of an Alexander myself. Bit of a defender of mankind, if you know what I mean. You know, just like, hey, you know, I'm a bit of an Alexander, really, when you think about it. of an alexander really when you think about it yeah people will just pick cool words and turn them into names yeah across many societies and cultures and stuff but this this one it really feels like naming yourself turbo or muscles or something it's really wild that people made that adaptation of it about that alex i've been meaning to talk to you about like our branding for the show. I do want to be referred to as muscles turbo now. It's just accurate. It's an accurate descriptor. That just plugs into your last name accidentally really good with the homophone. It sounds like golden muscles going at a turbo speed.

It's incredible. Muscles turbo golden just add like a couple more and i'm at like teenage mutant ninja turtles level yeah and alexander the great he was militant and was able to do military things in his life he was the king king of Macedonia from 336 BC to 323 BC. In those 13 years, he conquered Greek city-states and then a huge Persian empire and then other lands as far east as what's now modern India. So definitely the most famous Alex in the world due to that life. But again, there were two previous Alexanders as kings. There were other people named that before him. King Alexander I ruled about 150 years before Alexander the Great. So this name was

really, really out there before he came along. Now, is Alexander the Great the one who canoodled with Cleopatra or am I getting confused? Oh, that's Caesar and Antony, all those Roman guys. or am I getting confused? Oh, that's Caesar and Antony, all those Roman guys. Who did Alexander the Great canoodle with? He married a Persian princess named Roxanne. Roxanne! He also... And then also he probably had male romances as well,

especially with good friends. Nice. That was culturally very common in their society and their time. Right. Sometimes you got to just conquer some countries with your bro, who's also your lover. And it was normal. Bring it back. Right. Right. I mean, there was also when I went to Greece, there was a lot of artwork that would represent like, hey, here's this beautiful young man. It's a sculpture of him. It was made by his male lover and people were fine with that. And hey, you know what? Just chill out. Chill out, people. Yeah, right. It was just sort of a thing going on. Yeah. And the other thing

we said, you know, the Greek language is where we get this name and also two epics. One of them is the Iliad that really spread this Alexander concept. The other epic that spread it is written about Alexander the Great and extremely fictional. Huh. You know, Alexander III of Macedonia, he of course spreads his name. He has a son, Alexander IV. He found cities named Alexandria. But a lot of his later fame after his time ends up coming from basically an adventure

story. A few centuries after he dies, an unnamed writer composes an epic in the Greek language that is now known as the Alexander Romance. And that's also not a romance in a love story sense. The British Library says there were exciting adventure stories in the Middle Ages that were called romances. That was the word for those at the time. I see. I was hoping for some bi-representation in an epic poem, but I guess not. Yeah, if anyone decides to write the, you know,

internet or new YA version of this, that's a really good premise. Go ahead. That's great. But they didn't do that with this. It was just him doing basically superhero stuff. It sounds kind of asexual, honestly, like a Marvel movie or something. Like they're just too busy superheroing.

I mean, I think Marvel movies are super sexually charged, but sure. Right, like will Iron Man and Captain America kiss in the Civil War poster? They're so close. Come on, Bucky and Captain America. You can't say there's a little bit of chemistry there. That is, I guess the internet has just taken care of that for Marvel. They've been like, we've got it from here. And a thank you, and I'll be taking that.

Yep. But yeah, and so Alexander the Great in the Alexander romance, this story becomes very popular, gets rewritten, added on to, translated into a bunch of languages. But it's wall-to-wall adventures. This is nominally a story about the real historical figure, Alexander the Great, but it is tales of him battling a bunch of monsters.

At one point, he rides a griffin and flies through the air. Cool. Because that's a winged beast, you know? Yeah, it's got like a lion's butt and an eagle's head and claws and wings. And big wings, yeah. But like, so does, okay, this is a little bit of a tangent, but how do you imagine griffins doing their business? Do they use like a litter box, like a cat, or do they poop like a bird?

I think they can do both. I think, I think midair they go bird, you know, and then around the apartment, more of a cozy thing, litter box. Right. Yeah. God, what a nightmare of a pet that would be. Yeah. No thanks. Folks, don't let the third Harry Potter book fool you into owning a Griffiniffin. It's a bad idea. Now, Alex, that was hippogriff. And it had the butt of a horse. I forgot. But also, I do not care about those books at all.

Plus, adding horses to that waste situation, not great. It's worse. Anyway. Yeah, I think lion butt is better than horse butt in terms of poop duty, but anyways. Yeah, they don't know how to bury it. Horses, forget it. They're helpless. They're like, whoops, I did a duty. I just have to leave it there. And another Alexander adventure, he explores the bottom of the ocean inside of a glass diving bell well we know that that's not a good idea now don't we folks right like the most fragile thing get out of here but this was this is just a magic zippy story for young boys basically and. And so... Really thick glass could potentially work,

but then you couldn't see out of it. So what's the point? Yeah, right. There's also, in real life, Alexander the Great had a famous horse. That's how famous he was. He had a horse named Bucephalus. But in the Alexander romance, Bucephalus is a giant horse that is so ferocious Bucephalus can eat entire humans.

Well, you know, I have heard of horses biting people and turning your skull into a bowl shape with their kicks. So I think a really big horse that eats people is legitimately scary. Yeah, it would be fun. You know, it's just that this whole book, like, it would be fine as an adventure story, but the main character is a real guy from history, and especially when the person wrote it not that long ago of history, just a few centuries ago. It would be like that Brad Neely animated comedy video where George Washington is eight feet tall and eats the British or whatever. It's like that. I was just gonna bring that up. I love that idea. It's like also like if you just started talking about how Bill Clinton's cat socks was enormous and would eat people.

Right. And it was just like playing with Congress, like it's a little toy or something. Yeah, sure. Yeah, people for more than a thousand years got a kick out of this book. It was written around the 200s or 300s AD. It lives on more than a thousand years, gets translated into Hebrew, Latin, Arabic, Armenian, Persian, Slavonic, Coptic, Syriac, French, German, and English, to name a few. I mean, people love a big horse. I think this is something that is well-established.

All peoples all over the world love a big, hungry horse. I feel like you weren't on board with the earlier. I was like, glass diving bell. And you're like, I don't know. And then I'm like, giant horse. You're like, give me this book. Yeah. Look, spoilers for Legend of Zelda, Tears of the Kingdom.

But you can get a big horse. It is that tone of story. It's like mystical video game adventure starring Alexander the Great. It's like how everyone wants to name their kid Daenerys, like after Game of Thrones. And then after the finale, they're like, oh, shouldn't have done that. Should not have named my real living flesh child daenerys that was maybe a mistake yeah it is it's safer to name your child after this fictional alexander the great because i think the book was pretty complete like people added stuff but you

weren't waiting for them to get the winds of winter out. The winds of Alexander, I guess. It's like, when is the giant horse going to show up? We've been waiting, waiting so long. Folks, that is the origin of my name. I didn't know it until now. So I'm thrilled. And I hope you are too. We're going to take a quick break here and then come back with lots more numbers and stats and stories about how this name got around. I'm Jesse Thorne. I just don't want to leave a mess. to leave a mess. This week on Bullseye, Dan Aykroyd talks to me about the Blues Brothers, Ghostbusters, and his very detailed plans about how he'll spend his afterlife. I think I'm going to roam in a few places. Yes, I'm going to manifest and roam. All that and more on the

next Bullseye from MaximumFun.org and NPR. NPR. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie,

Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Folks, we are back. Our next fascinating thing is a set of numbers and statistics, and that is in a segment called... SIF Pod. SIF Pod.

SIF Pod. SIF Pod. SIF Pod. They're numbers and they're kooky, statistics and they're spooky. They're adding up so ooky, they're Alex and Katie. The stats are very thorough, well researched by our heroes. Their focus is quite narrow, they're Alex and Katie. SIF pod.

My hands are too humid to get a good snap in. I liked your spooky voice, though. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. You want to sing it effectively and also be spooky? I feel like that's Adam's life. You know, they're all trying to be hot and fun and interesting, but also terrifying. It's a difficult balance.

It's going to be hot and fun and interesting, but also terrifying. It's a difficult balance. Man, the Addams Family must have not used hand lotion because I cannot get a good snap. Too well moisturized for a good snap. And folks, that name was submitted by Gnick Gname on the Discord. Thank you very much. And we have a new name for this every week. Please make a Massillion Wacky and Bad as possible. Submit through Discord or to SipPod at gmail.com.

And the first number here is 0.7%. Seven-tenths of one percent. That's so much math. That is so much math. Seven-tenths. Seven-tenths of one percent. That feels small. Yeah, it's...

I feel both ways about it. It's small and also sort of more than I expected. In the 2010s in that decade, that's how many U.S. babies designated male at birth were named Alexander. So approaching 1% of babies in the U.S. Okay, that's, you know, I'm gonna say that does add up to a lot of babies. I'm going to say that does add up to a lot of babies. Yeah, the U.S. Social Security Administration has tons of fun name data online. And so that's why I'm being U.S. focused. They just gathered it really well for this population. And in the 2010s, a little over 142,000 male babies, at least considered male at birth, got named Alexander. And that's 142,000 out of

about 20 million total male births. So Alex, could you fight 120,000 babies named Alex? Or one giant horse named Alex? I don't know. I could see. Yeah. Or one giant baby made out of all the sort of individual babies in sort of a transformer giant mega baby. Right. And it turns out right now, Alexander is at a relative all time peak for popularity as a name in the US. Next number is eighth, because in the 2010s, it was the eighth most popular boy baby name in the U.S. The seven ahead of that were Michael at number seven, and then Ethan sixth, then Mason, William, Jacob, Liam at number two, and number one U.S. baby boy name of the 2010s is Noah. Congratulations, Noah.

I'm surprised about Mason because I, it's a fine name. I'm not making fun of the name, but I mostly know it by the jar, like the Mason jar. I don't think I've met an actual Mason person. Same. Yeah. Mason is the number five baby boy name in the U.S. for the whole 2010s. I don't hang out with a lot of young kids, I guess, but I don't know a lot of adults with that first name. I think that's a pretty new rising name. Because that would be like, what, a 13 year old now? Yeah, potentially. If there's a 13 year old Mason listening to this show, like, hey, how's it going, little buddy? Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to you. You're part of a new trend. That's great. Yeah. Also going on with this, I looked up what are the rankings in 2022? You can get just the

most recent full year. Alexander was the 17th most popular boy name in the US in 2022. And then I was really surprised. I looked up Alexandra. In 2022, Alexandra was 189th most popular for girls. It is just trailing Alexander by a pretty large amount. I mean, I wonder if any, well, I guess I wouldn't know because you'd have to look at sort of the trends over time. But I know that Alexa must be an intensely unpopular name for girls now because you simply can't. You cannot call a child Alexa, you know, Alexa, do this. you know, Alexa, do this, then you've got a robot suddenly crashing into your house, trying to fulfill some kind of order, Amazon order, sending drones to your location. So you can't do it anymore. Another amazing thing I found with 2022 name rankings,

Alexander is the 17th most popular boy name, but amazingly coming in at 190th for boys. So basically the same as 189th for girls for Alexandra. The 190th most popular U.S. boy's name last year was Alex. Huh? Wait, what? Huh? Like people are putting simply Alex on birth certificates to enough of an extent that it's in the top 200 U.S. boys names. And, you know, I hadn't heard of that practice very much. I always just presume Alex's or Alexander's or something like it. But there's apparently a rising trend of people just kind of skipping the nickname situation and making it the actual name.

I mean, why not? Because I never my my full name is Catherine and I only use that when like signing things and it's a heck of a lot harder to write that in cursive. So, uh, I, I like the name Catherine. I've, I've never actually gone by it. I had a brief idea in college that it's like, now is the time to reinvent myself. But then I didn't do it. So. What a silly Catherine voice. What a silly Catherine voice.

Immediately. Immediately. Like, what's your name? Katie. Damn it. I thought I would sound more serious and intellectual if I went by Catherine. But it turns out I'm not a serious person, so it's fine. And Alexander, that feels like it has a seriousness that I don't usually feel the need to adopt

in any situations. We would have a very different podcast if we had gone by the names Alexander and Catherine. We'd be talking about, I't know stocks and bonds right world domination or something yeah sure political situation in luxembourg don't get me started oh no my alexander voice came out oh no oh no take it in take it in secret well this is what you need to know about the situation in Estonia. Now, now, Catherine. There's one more number here about U.S. trends, and this is the years 1982 to 1989.

1982 to 1989. Those years are the original television run of Family Ties. I don't know if you've seen it. Family Ties was a hit NBC sitcom of the 1980s. I was born in 1989, so I kind of missed it. Yeah, I've only seen repeats. I was born in 88. So yeah, I wasn't watching it as a brand new baby. Just immediately plopped in front of the TV, umbilical cords still attached, So I wasn't watching it as a brand new baby. Just immediately plopped in front of the TV, umbilical cords still attached, like, you must consume family ties. This is how you learn our culture.

Oddly, when it was on, some people felt like it was a real representation of the trends in the 80s U.S. The premise was, it's a family sitcom, two parents who are former hippies and still very left-leaning and representing the 60s. And then their oldest son is a proud young Republican and Ronald Reagan devotee representing this movement in the 80s. And the famousness of this show today is basically based on Michael J. Fox. Oh, wait, who is he in the show? He played this oldest son, the young Republican whose character name was Alex P. Keaton. And that brings us to a takeaway within the numbers. Takeaway number two. Michael J. Fox might have popularized the name Alex. Interesting, but not his own name, which is like, man, he's he's a Michael, but he scored a point for the Alex's. Yeah. And Michael is often one of, if not the top boy names in the U.S., like just all the time.

So I don't know if they need the help. And he's Canadian. It's probably similar in Canada. It's interesting. I mean, my dad's name is Michael, and yet I haven't met that many other Michaels. Oh, there you go. Are you just avoiding men? Because first of all, smart.

But second, maybe that's contributing well we both know we both know a michael uh michael swain but he kind of goes by swain a lot yeah um trying to think if i know any other michaels i don't think i do maybe i do i'm sorry if i if there's like a really sad michael out of there like what about me you know me sorry about that i just imagined if you had a dog named michael and it's just looking up at you from the floor uh but you don't my my dog's name is cookie the alexander i trust her to defend um i mean she's she's very good at barking and barking and barking. Yeah, and the name Alexander, the name Alex, it's pretty much always been around the United States. But there's a pretty clear trend line in the statistics where in the 1980s, it takes a big jump in popularity.

In the 1970s US, Alexander was the 106th most popular male baby name. In the 1980s, it jumped to 50th. In the 1990s, it jumped to 23rd. And it's trended up from there. It's more or less at an all time high right now. So it's got the Michael J. Fox bump. Yeah, like this show Family Ties, apparently the writers thought the parents would be the main characters and then their three kids would be sort of foils and secondary characters. Everybody loves Michael J. Fox. He's just so charming. He's just so dang charming. unknown when he was cast in this show, quickly becomes the show's breakout star when it starts in 1982, wins three Emmys, two more nominations, and then also plays Marty McFly in Back to the Future in 1985. Very different, very different sort of course than what happened with Kirk Cameron from what was it? What was that? Growing Pains. Yeah. Kirk Cameron and Growing Pains because he kind of fizzled out and started talking about how evolution isn't real

because look how good a banana fits in my hand. Like that's true. Kirk Cameron became like an anti-evolution religious sort of a spokesperson. I didn't realize that anti-evolution religious sort of a spokesperson. I didn't realize that anti-evolution had spokespeople, but yeah. And he has a video where he's like, look, if evolution is real, why is a banana so perfectly formed for our hands? Which ignores the fact that we specifically domesticated the banana to be easier to open. That's just to say that like

michael j fox popularized the name alexander and also i guess time travel whereas kirk cameron said some bs about bananas it it's sort of an exact flip because kirk cameron as far as i know just plays a kid on growing pains and then got way into Republican stuff in real life. And then Michael J. Fox playing Alex P. Keaton played a super Republican kid. And as far as I know, never got into any of that in real life. And sort of the magic of the show is that he's so likable. The character of a militant young Republican is still fun. You know what I mean?

Right. That really took the country by storm. And then a lot of people could write trend pieces about like, this show represents the Reagan 80s, you know, and so, so the phenomenon of Alex P. Keaton was a massive thing for a decade. And, you know, you can't completely prove that it caused this spike, but it times out with it. And it seems to be part of how the name got popular. And I'm told it's not why I'm named what I'm named, but my life and name kind of is part of that trend too. Our next number here, we're jumping out of the US. The next number is three, because three is the number of kings of Scotland named Alexander. Oh. Three of them.

Interesting. Shrek the Alexander. What are other Scottish people? Scrooge McDuck. Nailed it. Nailed it. Yeah, as the actual name in the year 1107 A.D., Nailed it. Nailed it. later, two Alexanders are king of Scotland for basically all the 1200s. King Alexander II from 1214 to 1249, and then his son Alexander III until 1286. Especially the second and third kings were

considered like strong, good kings. Apparently, they did a lot to do things like negotiating the border with England. And Encyclopedia Britannica says they negotiated what's pretty much the modern Scottish border with England. Oh, okay. And the result here is because Scotland specifically had about a century of kings named Alexander who were pretty well liked, the name becomes hugely popular in Scotland. A lot of babies get named Alexander. Scottish culture also develops a lot of variants of Alexander, in particular Alistair is a variant

of Alexander originally. You know, Scottish history fills with Alexander Graham Bell inventing the telephone, Alexander Fleming discovering penicillin. There's a lot of famous Scottish Alexanders ah so have you been to Scotland and I've never been I would love to go they could just maybe make you a king right like if you're in Alexandria you have a pretty good shot at the throne I don't know if the throne still exists in Scotland I'm gonna say no but maybe that's just because they've been waiting for you. Oh, I love it. That would be great. I'll talk to Charles.

I'll be like, listen, man, you got three other kingdoms to deal with if I handle Scotland, right? Oh, right. Wait, does, oh my gosh, does that jerk get Scotland too? Ugh, that's not fair. Is like Scotland cool with that or do they not love it? I feel like I'm treading into some controversial territory so i'm gonna go back to going like oh okay yeah right yeah

there's a british game show i watch called only connect where whenever there's a question about the constituent parts of the united kingdom the host goes straight to camera and says as of this taping because i guess they think post brexit parts might leave yeah yeah yeah we'll see come join the eu scotland you know you wanna that's that's pretty much the news yeah uh and this uh this scottish thing leads to a brief takeaway number three. There was a past period of U.S. and British culture when having the name Alex suggested you might be Scottish. Oh, interesting. So was there, I know there was anti-Irish sentiment in the U.S., but was there anti-Scottish sentiment in the U.S.? You know, there could have been, but I haven't heard much about it.

What I've generally learned about sentiment against Scottish people is that in the past and somewhat in the present, there was huge English prejudice against Scottish people. When you bring all those people out to Canada or the U.S. or Australia or some other colonial project of Britain, a lot of that gets kind of flattened out. Like people stop sweating it because they're like, hey, we're all British and we're on a new continent. So I don't know. And so then you get this thing where in the early period of the 13 colonies that became US states or the early period of a country like Canada, the white settlers from Britain have

recent British roots. And so they'll still feel a lot more attachment to those specific kingdoms within the UK. And so that led to a situation where in early colonial periods, a colonial Brit with the name Alexander or Alex was presumed to be a Scot by their fellow Brits. Did that have any political ramifications? Not in particular. Apparently, you just mainly see it socially. And George R. Stewart's book, he says that student records at Ivy League colleges reflect this. Because in the 1700s, specifically, Princeton University had a substantially higher number of Alexanders than Harvard and other Ivies.

It's because Princeton was officially a Presbyterian school, which is a denomination that's mostly popular in Scotland. And so there was this like Scots Presbyterian set of Alexanders overrepresented at Princeton. But Stuart says this difference decreased in the 1800s pretty much went away. This was just sort of a moment, especially in the 1700s in the US. So like non-Scottish people just started taking on the name Alex as well. And then it became less, like, is your heritage Scottish or not? Yeah, so I'm representative of this. I don't really have Scottish heritage. Most of my British heritage is Lincolnshire in England or from Ireland. And so I know Ireland is a separate

place too. So yeah, I don't have Scottish heritage and I picked up the name Alexander because this difference has kind of gone away. Yeah. So, I mean, it's a cool name. So you can't let the Scottish people have all the fun with those names uh yeah share it yeah i like the name mcscrooge and i wish that i could have that name as well wait no his name's not mcscrooge it's scrooge mcduck ah i thought you were inventing an extra Scottish version of Scrooge McDuck. Yeah. I know. I just forgot the duck's actual Christian name, which is Scrooge McDuck. He loves Christ.

And that's his actual name. That's right. Very pious. Very greedy, but very pious. Just a few more numbers in the main show. The next one is 1221 to 1263. So another old set of years, 1221 to 1263. That's the approximate lifespan of a Russian noble and military leader and religious leader named Alexander Nevsky. leader named Alexander Nevsky. He, along with Alexander the Great, is probably why there's a big phenomenon of the name Alexander and Alexei and other names like it in Russia. Ah, right. Because like Alexei is also a Russian name that is quite common. Yeah, I had a hard time finding great resources on Russian baby names. But Statista.com says in 2021 in Moscow, Alexander was the number one name for baby boys.

And other internet sources placed Alexander first or second along with Sergei. They got so into a military leader named Alexander Nevsky, who got that last name as an honorific. He won a key battle at the river Neva and then was called Nevsky, who got that last name as an honorific. He won a key battle at the River Neva and then was called Nevsky. But he won battles against Swedish invaders and Teutonic Knight invaders, which then made him a hero. He was probably named after Alexander the Great, and then their influence from the 1200s made that a huge name in Russia. And then you have this totally separate Scottish reason that's big there. There are just sort of various blips and bumps that make this name more popular in various places.

A lot of Alex's really score and points for the name Alex. And then Michael also scored a point for Alex, which is weird. But hey, you know what? He's on our team. He's an honorary michael the alex last last number it is the number 18 because 18 is the number of male soccer players who have articles on the english language wikipedia and who go by just the name alex if people are familiar with in particular the, the Brazilian practice of soccer players just having one name,

no first name, last name, set of names, 18 guys in the last 50 years have been professional soccer players who simply went by Alex. Wait, so I didn't know this about Brazilian soccer players. They are simply introduced as, like, this is Alex. Yeah. And he walks out onto the field and kicks the ball around? Yeah, many star Brazilians, they're all given a full name at birth, but they will usually be known by a single word, a single nickname.

One example is Soccer Great Pelé. Oh, yeah. The Soccer Great Pelé was just called Pelé, and that's a nickname. One example is soccer great Pelé. Oh, yeah. The soccer great Pelé was just called Pelé, and that's a nickname. His actual full name was Edson Arantes do Nascimento, which does not have Pelé in it. They picked Pelé as a new thing. Yeah. Also, I've never understood Dick for Richard, because there's no D in Richard except for at the end. With these American nicknames like Dick for Richard, it's at least a system that a bunch of people are following. And this Brazilian nickname system is very unique. Also, in researching this, I learned that it's not just for soccer players. I'm going to link a Slade

article interviewing writer Alex Belos, who is named Alex. He's written a lot about Brazilian culture and sports culture. And he says people across Brazilian society will do this nickname thing. Doctors, lawyers, highly professional individuals can go by a nickname like that. And the current Brazilian president does that. His full name is Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, but he's always just been called Lula. Oh, yeah. The American celebrity parallels would be Madonna or Cher or, you know, even Beyonce is her first name, but just really going by that. Also, also presidents of South American countries. Yeah.

I guess I guess Madonna played Evita or so. She kind of did it. You know, sure. Beyonce, dictator of Paraguay. Crazy. It's crazy. It is. Few people know it.

I don't know why they're not talking about this more. But yeah, so this is a thing across Brazilian society. And then in the U.S., a lot of famous Brazilians to us are soccer players. And I decided to use Wikipedia as a measuring stick for people good enough at soccer to be prominent. 18 of them in the past 40 years have just been called Alex. And 17 were born in Brazil. The 18th is Portuguese. Have you ever tried playing soccer, Alex? Like maybe it's just a thing that happens if your name is Alex. I loved playing as a kid and I was not very good.

So it didn't stick for me. But these guys had a great time of it. I'm really glad for them. Yeah. Only 18 out of like 2 million Alex's become soccer stars, I guess. And if any of them ever are popular while I'm paying attention, I'm going to get a jersey. I'm going to be a fan. Like we can really go for this, but I need ever are popular while I'm paying attention, I'm going to get a jersey. I'm going to be a fan. Like, we can really go for this. But I need it to happen while I'm paying attention. So you're going to wear a jersey with your name on it. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. For myself. Okay. Huh. That's my team. The Alexes. Yeah. Okay.

You sound totally on board. So that's good. Yeah. You sound totally on board. So that's good. We're going to play the fade out music. It's just Katie continuing to be on board and supported. That's the sound. Just imagine that. Interesting. Folks, that's the main episode for this week. Welcome to the Alex Outro with fun features for you,

such as help remembering this Alex episode with a run back through the big Alex takeaways. Takeaway number one, the modern name Alexander comes from the Greek language and from two ancient epics. Takeaway number two, Michael J. Fox might have popularized the name Alex. And takeaway number three, there was a past period of US and British culture when having the name Alex suggested you might be Scottish. Those are the takeaways. Also, I said that's the main episode because there is more secretly incredibly fascinating stuff available to you right now if you support this show at MaximumFun.org. Members get a bonus show every

week where we explore one obviously incredibly fascinating story related to the main episode. This week's bonus topic is a bunch of messy Catholic popes named Alexander. Visit SIFPod.fun for that bonus show, for a library of almost 13 of MaxFun bonus shows. It's special audio. It's just for members. Thank you for being somebody who backs this podcast operation. Additional fun things. Check out our research sources on this episode's page at MaximumFun.org.

Key sources this week include the book American Given Names by University of California, Berkeley professor George R. Stewart, further resources from the British Library, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Encyclopedia Britannica, and more. That page also features resources such as native-land.ca. I'm using those to acknowledge that I recorded this on the traditional land of the Canarsie and Lenape peoples. Katie taped this on the traditional land of the Kumeyaay people. We want to acknowledge that in our locations, in many other locations in the Americas and elsewhere, native people are very much still here. That feels worth doing on each episode. And hey, join the free

SIF Discord, where we're sharing stories and resources about Native people and life. There's a link in this episode's description to join the Discord. We're also talking about this episode on the Discord. And hey, would you like a tip on another episode? Because each week I'm finding you something randomly incredibly fascinating by running all the past episode numbers through a random number generator. This week's pick is episode 30. That's about the topic of concrete. Fun fact there, in terms of concrete used in construction, the world builds the equivalent of a new New York City every month. So I recommend that episode. I also recommend my co-host Catherine,

a.k.a. Katie Golden's weekly podcast, Creature Feature, about animals, science, and more. Our theme music is Unbroken Unshaven by the Budos Band. Our show logo is by artist Burton Durand. Special thanks to Chris Souza for audio mastering on this episode. Extra, extra special thanks go to our members. And thank you to all our listeners. I'm thrilled to say we will be back next week with more secretly incredibly fascinating.

So how about that? Talk to you then. maximum fun a worker-owned network of artists own shows supported directly by you