SERIALously - 120: Fatal Obsession: When Love Turns Deadly | Feat. Serial Killers' Vanessa Richardson

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

Sometimes violence comes from the people you least expect.  Visit https://impact.byspotify.com/serialkillers to learn more, get support, and take action on the specific types of abuse in this episode.  If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence in any form, help is available. The National Domestic Violence Hotline provides free, confidential support 24/7. Call 1-800-799-SAFE, or visit TheHotline.org. If you need support for a teen or young person experiencing dating abuse, visit the Love is Respect website at https://www.loveisrespect.org/ For mental health resources and global domestic violence resources, you can visit https://resources.byspotify.com/ Shop the Merch: www.shop10tolife.com    Follow the podcast on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@serialouslypodcast        Follow the podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/serialouslypod/      Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise      All Social Media Links: https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_      SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/      About Me: https://annieelise.com/      For Business Inquiries: [e-mail]

Due to the nature of this episode, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of murder, assault, and intimate partner violence. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence in any form, help is available. The National Domestic Violence Hotline provides free, confidential support 24-7. Call 1-800-799-SAFE or visit thehotline.org. Hey, besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly. It's me, Annie, your true crime bestie. Today, I am here with Vanessa Richardson, host of the podcast Serial Killers. She's joining me to cover two cases today.

Thanks so much. Hi, everyone. I spend a lot of time thinking about serial killers, how they operate, how they hide, and how to protect myself from them. But statistically, there's someone out there even more dangerous than a serial killer. Your ex. It's true. We've all heard the trope, the boyfriend did it. And believe

it or not, intimate partner violence accounted for roughly one-third of all murders in 2021. That includes murders after the relationship ended. It's a horrifying thought. Ending a relationship doesn't always mean the end of the abuse. Sometimes it's the very start of it. The person you once felt the most safe with might not be safe at all. So today we're looking at two cases where exes turned deadly and discussing how to spot the warning signs of a killer. Now, a lot of people hear domestic violence and picture a husband hitting his wife. I know that I used to, but there are actually many different forms and perpetrators. According to the National Domestic Violence Hotline, it's any pattern of behavior used

by one partner to control another. It can be slippery and really hard to escape from. Exactly. Unless you've been there, you don't know. And everyone's situation is different, so it's up to them to decide when and how to leave. But what we can do is share knowledge. What does domestic violence look like? What are the warning signs? What's a healthy relationship? And most importantly, what are some resources for survivors and their loved ones? Stay with us. Our first case is from a few years ago in Dallas, Texas. I'll tell this story, then Annie will share our second case.

I'm ready. Let's get into it. It starts in 2012, the year Tinder and Hinge launched and swiping right is the latest trend. Especially for Brenda Delgado. She's 30 and ready to find her husband. When she matches with Ricky Paniagua, she falls hard. It doesn't hurt that their first date is a J-Lo concert. Ricky's a 36-year-old divorced dermatology resident. For Brenda, his ambition in the healthcare field is really attractive. Her own dream is to become a dentist, but the required education has always felt out of reach. Now, with Ricky by her side, she's empowered to finally pursue her dreams.

According to Skip Hollinsworth's article in Texas Monthly, their relationship starts picture perfect. Within three months, they move in together. Not long after that, Brenda enrolls in a dental hygienist program. Everything's coming up Brenda. A year and a half into their relationship, Ricky gives Brenda a ring. A promise ring. And they're in their 30s? Yeah. Okay.

I don't know about you, but at that age when it feels like everyone is getting married and having kids, if my boyfriend of almost two years handed me a promise ring, I'd be underwhelmed, maybe even downright offended. Absolutely. Yeah, there's definitely a message here. Ricky, he cares for Brenda, but he's not ready for a life commitment with her. And by July 2014, he realizes he'll never be ready. He breaks up with Brenda, ending their two-year relationship. But a few months later, they run into each other at a salsa class. Neither dance salsa during their relationship, so picking the same new hobby feels like fate. Brenda and Ricky

get back together and break up again a few months later. But once again, fate intervenes. They both take up running and literally cross paths on the local trails. Later, Ricky takes a new date to Panera Bread where Brenda just happens to be grabbing lunch. But she's not there for the broccoli cheese soup. She's there for Ricky. The exes hadn't run into each other coincidentally. Brenda's been masterminding the encounters. No way. I was just thinking Dallas is a huge city, so it's wild that they kept just running into each other. It's crazy. So Ricky didn't know it, obviously, but during their relationship, Brenda secretly grabbed Ricky's email and iCloud passwords.

With these, she was able to view his calendar, read his messages, and even track his location. Oh my gosh, this is actually a form of intimate partner violence, digital abuse, and stalking. But it's one of the harder kinds to catch. Absolutely, yeah. At this point, Ricky doesn't even know he's a victim. Brenda's been successfully playing off their encounters as coincidence. Plus, she and Ricky maintain a loose friendship, keeping up through texting, emails, and through social media. Ricky knows she's up to date on his life, just not how up to date.

It's understandable. According to the National Domestic Violence Hotline, aka The Hotline, most people don't expect abuse of any form to come from a woman. The majority of stalkers and abusers are men. But the truth is anyone can be violent and abusive, including women, including people with no criminal record, including someone you've known and lived with for years, like in Ricky's situation. If you have a friend who runs into their ex an abnormal amount or whose ex seems to know too much, you can suggest that they consider their personal cybersecurity. They might want to change their passwords or block their ex, and you might want

to stop tagging locations and Instagram stories that feature them. In 2015, almost a year after Ricky first broke up with Brenda, he gets a new girlfriend. Her name is Kendra Hatcher. Brenda's reactions start fairly normal. Okay, I'm going to go through them and you can tell me what you've done. Okay. First. DMI, I know.

So you look up your ex on social media. 100%. Sure, right? Guaranteed. Look up their new partner. Doesn't everybody? Super normal, right? Yeah. Talked. Look up their new partner. Doesn't everybody? Super normal, right? Yeah.

Talked about your ex's new relationship with a friend. I feel like that's just a sense of emotional processing. Absolutely. So normal. Gone on a date with someone new

but made them drive to your ex's new girlfriend's apartment and sit outside waiting for them to go in or out? I'm sorry, excuse me. Right. Okay, not that. That is what Brenda did.

She tracks down Kendra's home address and makes her date take her there. This is especially concerning because Brenda and Kendra have never met. Oh my gosh. At this point, it's clear Brenda needs help, but she only grows more obsessive. Brenda talks about Ricky and his new girlfriend constantly. It doesn't help that Kendra is divorced, just like Ricky. And she's a dentist, Brenda's dream job. The obsession ratchets up to a 10 when Brenda starts talking about Ricky and Kendra getting hurt. At one point, she offers her roommate money to attack them. Brenda's roommate is freaked out, obviously,

and moves out of the apartment. I don't blame her. I'd be worried about my safety too. Here's what else you can do if you ever find yourself in that kind of situation. First, make it clear that you do not support violence. Then, check on their well-being. You can ask how they've been sleeping lately or if they've spoken to anyone else about this. If the threats seem credible or if they have a detailed plan, you can also contact the police or warn the person being threatened. And lastly, you can always call the hotline for personalized support, even as a concerned bystander. We don't know how much Brenda and her roommate discuss it,

but Brenda doesn't drop the subject. She starts getting closer with one of her old roommate's friends, a 23-year-old single mom named Crystal Cortez. Remember how Brenda is a dental hygienist in training and Kendra is a dentist? Crystal is a dentist office receptionist slash assistant. She looks at Brenda the way Brenda looks at Kendra, with envy. But Brenda is extremely nice to Crystal. She pays for dinners out and lets her use her big screen TV as long as Crystal listens to Brenda haranguing about Ricky and Kendra. Eventually, they're close enough that Brenda feels comfortable bringing up

contract killing. And Crystal doesn't walk away. Oh no. Brenda offers Crystal $500 to help plan the murder. And Crystal needs the money, so they start meeting up on a near daily basis, discussing murder methods and how to hire a hitman to actually do the job. Crystal also joins Brenda in stalking Kendra and Ricky. They even use night vision binoculars. And here's something wild. They start driving around Crystal's old neighborhood that she described as run down. They pull over and approach random men, asking them if they would shoot someone for money. This doesn't get them anywhere. Eventually, they go to Crystal's mom's house where they meet Christopher Love, a weed dealer with an AK-47 tattoo. Brenda sizes him up and scores an invite to his place.

There, she brings up the idea of a contract kill. Christopher has a criminal record and he's not opposed to the idea for the right price. At this point, Brenda starts flat out lying. At this point, Brenda starts flat out lying. She says she's in with a Mexican drug cartel, so she can offer Christopher drugs in addition to cash. That seals the deal. Christopher joins Crystal and Brenda in the murder plot.

In the meantime, Brenda keeps a close eye on Ricky and Kendra. She learns they're making plans of their own. Trips to California and Mexico. Then, a wedding. Brenda wants to stop it all. On September 2nd, 2015, Brenda spends most of the day in the library, ostensibly studying for her dental hygienist license exam. But her thoughts are probably somewhere else,

because across town, Crystal and Christopher are sitting in a borrowed Jeep Cherokee. They're parked outside Smile Zone, the dentist office where Kendra works. Around 7 p.m., Kendra leaves for the day, and the Jeep tails her white Camry across town until they lose sight of it in evening traffic. But that doesn't stop them. Crystal and Christopher drive straight to Kendra's apartment. They know she'll go there eventually. They wait until one of the neighbors opens the garage gate and they sneak inside. Then they park where they have a good view of Kendra's parking spot. Wait, they know where she parks? Oh yeah, Brenda found out everything.

Crystal and Christopher wait until Kendra finally arrives home. Once she parks, Christopher gets out of the Jeep and approaches the Camry. As Kendra exits her car, Christopher shoots her in the head. She drops to the ground. Christopher grabs Kendra's coach bag, then jumps back into the Jeep. Crystal drives off, leaving Kendra to die in the parking garage. Everything went according to plan. So the plan was to kill Kendra, not Ricky?

Yes. Intimate partner violence doesn't only harm the partners, it can endanger people close to the situation as well. Brenda made Kendra her target because killing Kendra allowed her some control over Ricky's life. If Ricky wasn't going to be with Brenda, he wasn't going to be with anyone. Wow. You know the concept of winning a breakup? Yeah. Well, it sounds like the worst possible version of that.

Yeah, exactly. It's also possible Brenda thought that with Kendra out of the picture, Ricky would come back to her maybe. Because that night, Ricky texts Brenda. No. Yes. He thinks she's a friend, that shoulder to cry on. And Brenda plays that part perfectly. She even offers to bring Ricky groceries and he accepts. They plan for her to come over the night of September 3rd, barely 48 hours after Kendra's murder. But that afternoon, the police contact Ricky. They have a lead on the case, implicating Brenda. So instead of spending her evening in Ricky's apartment,

Brenda spends it in an interrogation room. But she's like, Kendra who? Because again, they have never met. Plus, Brenda has an airtight alibi. She was at Chili's with a friend. She has the margarita receipts to prove it. At some point, the detectives reveal why they've narrowed in on Brenda. Her friend Jose's Jeep is on the parking garage security cam footage, and Jose insists he lent his Jeep to Brenda. Brenda responds that she lent it to her friend Crystal, not even her friend, a girl she knows, an acquaintance. Police talk to Crystal, who feeds

them a series of lies, landing on the story that she was only hired to rob Kendra, not kill her. But her accomplice went rogue. Amid the lies, Crystal unveils one truth. The crime wasn't targeted at Kendra at all. It was targeting Ricky. Still, it's not enough evidence. Police keep investigating, and a month later, they finally track down Christopher, who also claims Brenda hired him to rob Kendra. She wasn't supposed to die. With two confessions implicating Brenda, police finally have enough to arrest her. There's just one problem. Brenda fled the country.

The Dallas PD escalate the case to the FBI, who put Brenda on their 10 most wanted list. She's the ninth woman ever put on that list. The list serves its purpose. Tips lead the FBI to Torreon, Mexico, where Brenda's hiding out. She surrenders peacefully, probably because she knows she won't be punished immediately. You see, Brenda has dual citizenship between the U.S. and Mexico, and Mexico has laws protecting its citizens from the death penalty, and Mexico, and Mexico has laws protecting its citizens from the death penalty, even in other countries. But the death penalty is a possible punishment for Brenda's crimes in Texas, so she waits through international diplomacy and doesn't go to trial in the U.S. until June 2019. At that time, Crystal takes a plea deal and testifies to the truth of Brenda's crimes.

Brenda's found guilty and is currently serving life without parole. Christopher is also serving life without parole. Crystal is serving a 35-year sentence. To me, the most upsetting part of this case is that Kendra was collateral damage. She met a man, she fell in love, and she lost everything due to intimate partner violence. She had no reason to feel like she was in danger. Yeah, she might have known that Brenda existed, but how often do you think about your current partner's ex? Not that much. Exactly. Meanwhile, Brenda obsessed over Kendra. When detectives

investigated Brenda's phone, they found dozens of screenshots of Kendra's social media posts, pictures of her and Ricky, even her flight confirmations from Ricky's email. Wow, that is chilling. Yeah, it might make you want to set your Instagram to private or even delete all social media. Nowadays, any information you or others post online could be used against you.

But I want to reiterate, Kendra's murder was not her fault, or Ricky's. It wasn't about her. It wasn't even about Ricky. It was all about Brenda. Much like a serial killer, Brenda wasn't going to be satisfied until she harmed Ricky somehow. She wanted to control his life, and it was her choices that caused this tragedy. Up next, I'll share a more recent case involving intimate partner violence in one of the last places you would ever expect. Our second story involves two more unlikely parties, teens and their parents. In 2019, it's the summer before Morgan McCaffrey's senior year. She's busy, she moves into a new house, and she gets a new boyfriend.

Is it a big move? Not really. It's just across town in Philadelphia. She keeps her same school and her friends. But I mention it because it might have brought her closer to her new boyfriend, Gilbert Newton III. And they have a lot in common, both play soccer and attend private Catholic high schools. Even though they live about 15 minutes from each other, they do go to different schools. Morgan goes to an all-girls school, Nazareth Academy, and Gilbert attends an all-boys school, Roman Catholic High School. In the beginning,

the relationship is romantic. Think flirty texts and going to each other's soccer games. Eventually, Gilbert says they lose their virginities together. Over the next year, Morgan and Gilbert seem to be a normal teen couple. Until they aren't. Allegedly, Gilbert starts blowing up at Morgan for the tiniest things, like taking too long to text back. When she doesn't reply, he texts her insults. According to the hotline, forcing your partner to maintain constant contact can be an early attempt to control them. It's a warning sign for abuse later down the line.

A pattern of insults and aggression is emotional abuse, and coercing immediate text responses is a form of digital abuse. But Morgan and her friends don't know that. She does tell her friends about the mean texts, but insists that Gilbert doesn't really mean it. He's just upset. And this is pretty common. At a lot of schools, intimate partner violence isn't really talked about.

So when a warning sign appears, teens can blow it off as drama. But in reality, one in 10 teens experiences abuse. In fact, the hotline has an entire program for teens called Love is Respect. Love is Respect has resources specifically for young people. Their info is linked in the show notes. In this kind of situation, they recommend talking to your partner about healthy boundaries and making it clear you aren't always going to be on your phone, like you might turn it off to go to the movies or for a family dinner. We don't know exactly how Morgan handles her conversations with Gilbert,

but things don't improve. In March of 2020, Oh, God. Yes, yes, this is about to be a COVID story. I know we were all hit hard by the lockdowns, and so were Morgan and Gilbert. March through May of 2020 was supposed to be a really special time in their lives — prom, graduation, their last few weeks in high school. For most teens, the end of senior year is filled with parties and celebrations. It's a major milestone. For Morgan and Gilbert, it was Zoom calls and sweatpants. It's something most reporting on the case doesn't touch on, but they and their families are robbed of the typical coming-of-age

traditions. This undeniably impacts everyone's mental state and how the next few months play out. Even so, amid all of the chaos, Morgan spearheads a plan to create care packages for local nurses. Even in a really tough time, she's banding together with her community to support people who have it harder than her. And according to his friends and family, Gilbert is a good match for Morgan, known for his peacefulness, truthfulness, and being law abiding as well as his good character. That spring, they both graduate and plan to attend different colleges. Morgan commits to Manor College for undergrad, where she plans to prepare for dental hygiene school. Gilbert plans to play soccer for Lebanon Valley College. But behind closed doors, things are much less rosy. Just to add some context before we go on. In 2020,

domestic violence increases worldwide. The uptick is so severe, the United Nations dubs it as a shadow pandemic. And according to Philadelphia's district attorney, their city is no exception. With so much of society shut down, survivors have fewer opportunities to escape, and abusers have more opportunities and motive to do harm, without witnesses. And that's what happens with Gilbert and Morgan. At some point during their relationship, the name-c calling evolves into the threats and, at least once, physical attacks. Gilbert shoves Morgan, punches her, and even bites her. When this happens, Morgan's isolated from her friends, her teachers, and so many other

people who might notice signs of abuse or be a safe person to talk to. She definitely has a loving family, but for survivors and teens especially, it can be person to talk to. She definitely has a loving family, but for survivors and teens especially, it can be easier to talk to someone outside of the family, which is what Morgan does. She tells at least one friend what happened. We don't know exactly how that conversation goes, but if someone comes to you about abuse, Love is Respect recommends creating a safe space

where your friend or a loved one can share and listen without judgment. Then, you can offer to help with whatever they need. Though, be prepared. It might not be what you expect, and they might not be ready to end the relationship. If that happens, respect their decision and remind them you're there if anything changes. In Morgan's case, it's possible that talking to friends helps her break up with Gilbert, which isn't easy. Morgan's mom says that they break up, and they get back together a few times that spring. When Morgan breaks up with Gilbert again on June 20th, 2020, he texts her death

threats. We'll just read one so that you can understand the tone. I just want to stab you in the neck continuously. Morgan blocks his number, which is exactly what Love is Respect recommends. If someone is sending you harassing or scary texts, you don't have to read them, though it can be helpful to take screenshots in case you need documentation later, like for a restraining order. But here's where it gets wild. Gilbert gets his mom involved. Wait, what?

Yeah, when Morgan stops answering him, Gilbert texts his mom to talk to her on his behalf. On July 6th, he writes, quote, because I want to talk to her. Say he will text you when you get home. Just unblock him. She's got an attitude like it's really done. I'm really gonna f***ing kill her, dude. I will stab her in the neck 57 times. Wait, he sent that to his mom? Yes, and it gets worse. His mom reads that text and calls Morgan. Oh, I've heard some really bad cases of helicopter parenting,

but this might be the worst. Morgan doesn't pick up, does she? Not at first, but his mom calls again, and eventually the pressure on Morgan is too much. She picks up the phone. Remember, Morgan's a legal adult, but she's only just finished high school. She still lives at home, and she met his mom when she was underage, so Gilbert's mom is still an authority figure. It doesn't help that they lost so many of the end-of-high-school traditions that help parents start seeing their kids as adults. Yeah, plus Morgan's graduated from a Catholic

high school, so maybe she's operating under specific cultural values like being the bigger person or turn the other cheek and be kind or feel the famous Catholic guilt. This is what Morgan's mom thinks, at least that Morgan felt guilty after hurting Gilbert's feelings. In the end, Morgan agrees to do the quote-unquote nice thing and meet Gilbert at his house on July 13th. That day, she drops off the rest of Gilbert's stuff that he left with her. She's ready to move on.

Gilbert is not. He stalks Morgan online. On July 26th, he finds her VSCO account, which Morgan intentionally didn't share with him. For those of us who are a little older, VSCO is a photo-sharing app similar to Instagram. It was popular with teens in 2020, mostly because people our age weren't on it. But unlike Instagram, it doesn't have the option to make your profile private. So Gilbert can view all of Morgan's posts, including one with her new

boyfriend. And Gilbert is extremely upset. He texts Morgan, asking her to meet. But even when she agrees, Gilbert keeps harassing her, asking her about her new boyfriend. Eventually, Morgan tells Gilbert to leave her alone or she will block him again. At some point during this talk, Gilbert texts his mom that Morgan, quote, better come back or I'll cut her head off. But instead of talking to Gilbert about his violent feelings, his mom Facebook messages Morgan and convinces her to keep talking to Gilbert. Morgan and Gilbert text some more and agree to meet by the school track field the next morning. So around 7.30 a.m. on July 27th, Morgan pulls into the field's parking lot. Gilbert isn't there. A few minutes later, he texts her that he's driving

to a different location, a church parking lot. He says it's more private. Morgan agrees to go and meet him there, but when Gilbert learns that there's another car in the lot, he makes her change the location again, this time to a train station parking lot. Morgan arrives at 7.55 a.m., and this lot is empty. It seems like Gilbert doesn't want any witnesses to his meetup with Morgan, not only from the text, but from the two Ginsu kitchen knives Gilbert brought with him. He'd taken them from his parents' knife block. At 8.06 a.m., Morgan's phone dials her mom's number, but the call doesn't go through. At 8.12 a.m., city workers call 911. By 8.14 a.m., the police are on the scene. They find Morgan in a pool of blood,

laying on top of a broken knife. Morgan has roughly 52 stab wounds. One pierced her heart and would have been fatal alone. Morgan also has defensive injuries, bruises, and scratches from fighting back. In the struggle, blood spattered 20 feet across the parking lot. Morgan is declared dead on site. At 10.01 a.m., there's another 911 call, this time from Gilbert's mom. Police dispatch to the Newton house. There, they find Gilbert on his parents' couch covered in Morgan's blood. He's expressing suicidal thoughts, and he confesses to murdering Morgan. A year later, he's found guilty of first-degree murder, premeditated homicide. Gilbert was angry that Morgan had moved on from their relationship, so he stabbed her to death.

After the trial, Gilbert says, I blame no one but myself. I blame myself completely. Gilbert Newton III is serving a life in prison. Wow. One of the scariest parts of this case is how young Gilbert and Morgan were. As the mom of teens, this hits way close to home. I can't imagine how I'd be if something like this happened to my kids, but I can tell you what Morgan's family did. In the wake of Morgan's death, her family was showered with donations. They used the money to found an educational nonprofit called Morgan's Light. Morgan's Light provides tools and resources that help teens and parents stop domestic violence before it starts, and they work with schools to spread awareness. I want to share part of a

message Morgan's mom wrote online. Knowing what I do now, I would have reached out for support through the resources we are providing to you. After doing my research, I know this can be a daunting task, but I also know that this patience and strength are worth it. These resources are there to help a woman leave a relationship safely. Yes, she's right. The tools are out there. Thanks to organizations like Morgan's Light, The Hotline, and Love is Respect, there's free help for survivors, loved ones, and even for abusers who want to stop. While you can't force anyone to change, you can share information. And that could save someone's life. Sometimes it's just about knowing what to look out for. There's one final piece of information I wanted to share. In both these cases, Ricky and

Morgan felt like they couldn't escape their exes. This is something not enough people are aware of. After ending a relationship, you can still be susceptible to manipulation and abuse. In certain cases, you might even be in more danger than you were during the relationship. Under pressure, Morgan agreed to meet Gilbert to give him closure. And under similar pressure, Ricky paid for the cell phone plan Brenda used to stalk him and Kendra. According to the hotline, abusers often gaslight victims by downplaying their past actions and telling the survivor it won't ever happen again. They work overtime to convince the people around them they're a good person who would never intentionally hurt anyone.

This is part of why the hotline recommends keeping an open dialogue about your romantic relationships with someone outside the relationship. That person can help spot abuse from outside the relationship. That person can help spot abuse from outside the situation. Because when friends and family don't know the whole story, they can add to the societal pressure to be the bigger person, even when it hurts you. Ricky and Morgan probably felt like they had no choice but to be nice. And we're here to say you don't have to. There's no shame in being a survivor. If you or someone close to you has experienced intimate partner violence, the first priority should be the survivor's safety. Even if people say you aren't being nice. Even if that means blocking them, their family,

and their closest friends from your phone and social media. Going no contact is really hard, but it can be key to staying safe, because ending an abusive relationship and the immediate aftermath are the most dangerous times for survivors. But there are ways to make it less dangerous, like forming a post-breakup safety plan. It can include no contact for a set period, like six months. Or it can lay out exactly how you'll respond if your abusive ex reaches out, you run into them in public, or someone else shames you for setting a boundary. Both the hotline and Love is Respect offer free assistance in creating these plans.

Whether you're still in the relationship and want help leaving, or you've ended it but want to make sure your ex doesn't harm you. Anyone can make a safety plan, even if your partner hasn't abused you before. Intimate partner violence may be the most common form of murder right now, but it doesn't have to stay that way. By building awareness of what a healthy relationship looks like, sharing education about the warning signs of domestic violence, and supporting the people in our lives, we can prevent future tragedies. and supporting the people in our lives, we can prevent future tragedies. Visit Spotify.com slash Serial Killers to learn more,

get support, and take action on the specific types of abuse we discussed today. If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence in any form, help is available. The National Domestic Violence Hotline provides free confidential support 24-7. Call 1-800-799-SAFE or visit thehotline.org. Thanks for listening to this episode of Serial Killers and Serialistly. And special thanks to Casey Aserno on Spotify's Social Impact team and our partners at the National Domestic Violence Hotline for their help with this episode. Remember to take care of each other and stay safe out there. Thanks again, Annie, for joining me.

Thanks so much for having me. Serial Killers is a Spotify podcast and Serialistly is an Audioboom podcast. Both of us release a new episode every Monday. This episode was written by Maggie Edmire, researched and developed by Maggie Edmire and Julian Boirot, fact-checked by Laurie

Siegel, and sound designed by Alex Button. Our head of programming is Julian Boirot, our head of production is Nick Johnson, and Spencer Howard is our post-production supervisor. This episode was hosted by Annie Elise and me, Vanessa Richardson.