SERIALously - 66: Pure Evil: A Monster Mother & A Complete Blood Bath

Episode Date: September 27, 2023

In today’s episode, we are going to discuss the tragic events that took place on May 20, 2022, in Minnesota, which prosecutors described as ‘one of the most horrific’ cases they have ever seen. Police pulled over a woman, and officers immediately saw what seemed to be blood and human tissue in the back seat of the car. The woman driving said she had raw deer meat in her car, and her hands were bloody because of a tampon. But that wasn’t true, at all. This case is extremely disturbing and one of the most heartless and evil acts a mother could ever make. This case was originally covered on my youtube channel, 10 to life. Your True Crime BFF, Annie Elise SERIALously Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/serialouslypod/ All Social Media Links  https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_ About Me: https://annieelise.com/ SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/ Join Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise  For Business Inquiries:  [e-mail] All Social Media Links: https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_  About Me: https://annieelise.com/  SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/ For Business Inquiries: [e-mail]

Hey true crime besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all-new bonus episode of Serialistly. It's me, Annie, your true crime bestie, here to talk all things true crime with you. Now, the reason why I had to jump on here and drop this bonus episode outside of the normal release schedule is because I need to talk to you about this case. It is so wild. There is so much to talk about, so we got to get right into it. Before we do, please take a quick second, just make sure that you are following along on the podcast so that you don't miss any future episodes and bonus episodes like these that drop, and also follow along on the Serialistly Facebook page where we drop all information regarding giveaways, behind the scenes information,

guest episodes, Q&As, all sorts of good stuff. All right, now let's get into today's case. Jalissa Thaller was a young woman with a very promising future ahead of her. She was intelligent, driven, and had a passion for helping others. However, her life took a very dark turn when she was accused of a heinous crime that rocked her small town to its core. As evidence against her mounted, many began to question whether she was truly guilty or if there was more to the story than met the eye. With so much at stake, the truth may be more elusive than anybody could have ever even imagined. So as we go through the details of this case, will Jalissa be able to clear her name and prove her innocence, or will she forever be branded as

a criminal? The answer lies in the complex and mysterious details of her case, which continues to captivate and baffle those who seek to unravel the truth. Eli was born on December 15, 2015, to parents Jalissa Fowler and Tony Hart. They all lived in Minnesota. Eli was born with a genetic disorder and had to undergo a few surgeries during his first few months of life. As he got older, he wore hearing aids and he had a few other minimal conditions due to the disorder that he had, but he was otherwise a perfectly healthy and normal little boy.

Eli loved to blow bubbles, go fishing, play on the swings at the park, and his favorite food was meatball from Carbone's. He went to school at Shirley Hills Primary School and was popular with other kids, and everybody just loved him. Everybody loved Eli. He liked being social, talking, and playing with others. He was always happy, outgoing, and just full of energy. Now, Jalissa was just 22 years old when she had Eli. The details about Jalissa and Tori's initial relationship and when they

parted ways are a bit unknown, but Eli spent most of his young life with his mom, Jalissa and Tori's initial relationship and when they parted ways are a bit unknown, but Eli spent most of his young life with his mom, Jalissa. According to medical records, Jalissa was in and out of psychiatric hospitals from the ages of 13 to 18. She was repeatedly treated for drug and alcohol and ran away from home in her last year of high school, where she ended up living out on the street for 45 days at such a young age. That is really scary. Eli had an ongoing case with the Minnesota Department of Child Support Services, and he has had this ongoing case since he was born. Records show that when he was born, he had prenatal exposure to an illegal substance. In 2017, when Eli was just

two years old, the documents said that Jalissa was not taking her medications and not responding to her child's needs. And then in 2019, Jalissa reported that Eli's father, Tori, had threatened to hurt Eli and put a bomb in her car. Now before I go any further, it's also been reported that Jalissa made up the claims about Tori, all in an effort to keep him from being able to see Eli. And it wasn't just that one occasion either. Jalissa had a history of using this method to prevent Eli from seeing his dad. And Jalissa's own father supported Tori, saying that he was incapable of what she alleged he was doing and that Tori was out of state when some of these incidents allegedly occurred. In October of 2020, authorities temporarily placed Eli in foster care. This

was after social workers visited Jalissa's home and found the boy naked with nothing to wear in the house but pajamas. Workers said that the house was absolutely filthy and noted a flooded upper floor bathroom and also eggs broken and smeared throughout the main level. But soon after being removed from the home, Eli was placed back in Jalissa's care. A few months later, in January of 2021, Jalissa was hospitalized for the second time, and said that she was experiencing psychosis, hearing voices to take her own life, and experiencing paranoid delusions. This time, Eli was placed in foster care for a longer term,

but luckily got to live with a member of his dad's family. The family member had said, Due to several false orders of protection filed by Eli's mother, Tori could not have a relationship with Eli. Starting in January 2021, Eli spent 11 months living in my home at that time. During that time, Eli and Tori were able to start a relationship, and their bond was powerful from the start. Eli fell in love with his father and loved spending time with him. Tori was excited to make up for all of the lost years and was thrilled to start teaching his son how to fish and to ride a bike with no training wheels.

At the end of December 2021, Eli returned to his mother's house for a home trial. Tori filed for custody of Eli due to many red flags that Jalissa was displaying, including unstable living conditions and even being kicked out by her landlord on one occasion, also drug addiction, and of course the ongoing mental health issues. And it gets worse. Two social workers, Beth Denner and Jennifer Streifland, who provided regular reports to the court on Jalissa's behavior, revealed an extremely disturbing history, including repeated failures to abide by rules set down by the court and by Jalissa's monitors, such as failing to show up for mandated drug testing and engaging in inappropriate conduct with her son. And what was this inappropriate conduct? Well, Jalissa left rotting food in her apartment. She also tested positive for methadone, and apparently she exposed her son to images of naked women. On one occasion, Jalissa allegedly told her therapist how she left Eli on the side of a cliff in Colorado while she went to go fetch a drinking cup. In this instance, she apparently tied a rope

onto herself and climbed down the side of the cliff to retrieve a sippy cup that had blown away. Jalissa just left Eli unattended while she was climbing down this cliffside and did not answer the therapist when the therapist asked why she wouldn't have just obviously bought a new sippy cup. Why did you have to suspend yourself down this cliff to retrieve this cup that had blown over and leave your little baby child right there unattended? Now obviously I don't know for sure, but that certainly does sound like drug-induced behavior to me, or just the most horrible choices a parent you could ever make. Additionally, a different social worker said that she was very concerned about Jalissa's mental health. However, for some reason, that same worker recommended that custody of Eli be

returned to Jalissa, and this was just a few weeks after she told the court that Jalissa was not ready to resume her parenting duties. This all according to court records, and this was something that both social workers agreed to, despite all of the signs that pointed otherwise. But this is where it gets even more infuriating, because these same people also reported that Jalissa had not attended weekly therapy sessions for months, and also that she lacks the insight into her own mental health and behavior. However, that there is no current indication that her son is physically unsafe in her care. Now, if that doesn't make sense to you, that's absolutely normal, and you're right, because it literally does not make any sense at all. Tori tried extremely hard to get custody of

his son Eli, but unfortunately, more false orders of protection were filed, which postponed all of the custody hearings. Numerous parties made many statements to CPS, fearing that Jalissa would harm Eli if full custody were returned. But ultimately, she was granted full custody on May 10, 2022. And then just 10 days later, the unthinkable happened. Family members of a young boy tragically killed say they have been fighting for his safety for over a year. They're identifying him as six-year-old Eli Hart. His remains were found inside a trunk during a traffic stop near Orono Friday. While Orono police have not confirmed the boy's identity, his father's fiance says the two had been locked into a custody battle with Eli's biological mother they would eventually lose. battle with Eli's biological mother they would eventually lose. Yesterday they shared their grief and frustration as well as introducing us to a boy they say had a smile and a heart that could win over just about anyone. Tonight we're continuing to dig deeper talking to more people who cared for

Eli shortly before they say he died. We're also looking more closely into court documents that detail his return to his biological mother. Our Adam Duxter shares how Eli's foster family is mourning his loss. I don't know how he always had a smile on his face. A memorial in the front yard of Nikita Kronberg's Randolph home. Now a tribute to six-year-old Eli Hart, who she says for almost a year became like another child for her and her husband. He was an amazing kid. He was full of energy, always smiling. He is so outgoing. He always wanted to befriend everyone.

Kronberg had known Eli since he was born. His mother, who Lisa Thaller, cousins with her husband Steven. In January of 2021, concerns about Thaller's mental health led Child Protective Services to get involved and led to the Kronbergs becoming six-year-old Eli's foster parents for almost a year. I feared if she got custody back that she would harm Eli, if not worse. Earlier this month, Dakota County court documents show, despite concerns about Thaller's mental health, living situation and criminal history, she was once again awarded full custody. I instantly responded with, you know, this is a dangerous situation for Eli. You know, I fear for his

safety if he is returned to her. There was numerous things that I had brought up that were concerning that I had noticed. Less than two weeks later, Orono police say they stopped a woman driving on a busted tire with a shattered back windshield. After noticing blood inside the car, police say they found a body in the trunk. Well, investigators haven't released the name of that victim or the names of the two people they've arrested since. Family members say that boy was Eli. of the two people they've arrested since. Family members say that boy was Eli

and an online jail roster shows his mother currently held in Hattepin County Jail on pending murder charges. At that point I felt like I failed him. I keep looking at pictures of him and I keep. This can't be real. He's out there somewhere playing, having fun. It can't be real. K's out there somewhere playing, having fun. It can't be real.

Kronberg says now her biggest question is why. You want to blame one person. You want to put that blame on one person so you have somebody to be mad at. But it's a whole team. to an arrest warrant. On May 20, 2022, around 7 a.m. on a Friday, the police department responded to a 911 call about a suspicious vehicle driving on its rim with the back window smashed out. Police said that they pulled over a silver car with a matching description on Barlett Boulevard in Mound, Minnesota. The driver of the vehicle was identified as Jalissa and she was alone. The officer initiating contact with Jalissa stated that she looked very disheveled and had what appeared to be a blood-like substance on her hands, face, and clothing. Officers noted a substantial amount of fluid and a blood-like

substance was visible in the rear of the vehicle. When asked about the blood on her face and hand, Jalissa stated that it was from removing a tampon, which gross. I mean, I get it if you need an excuse, but like, ew, gross. And then when asked about the suspected tissue matter in the vehicle, Jalissa stated that she had deer meat that she got from an unknown butcher overnight and had returned to Mound to meet with her AA sponsor on three points. So she's saying the blood all over her and on her face and on her hands is from pulling out her own tampon. Then she's saying the tissue like substance in the car is from deer meat. I don't know. It's weird, guys. It's weird. Officers then observed what appeared to be a visible bullet hole in the rear passenger seat rest. They also

observed blood like substances and that suspected human tissue, which were present on both sides of this apparent bullet hole. Jalissa provided an address of residents at Bayview Condos and gave them her apartment number as to where she was living. Then, officers spent around a 30-minute period attempting to determine if the car was somehow involved in an incident outside of their jurisdiction. Jalissa was growing increasingly impatient, cold, and refused to sit in the squad car while the investigation continued. Jalissa was released from the scene and given transport back to her apartment. Now why she was allowed to go back to her apartment,

I will never understand. Based on the presence of potential blood evidence and potential tissue in the vehicle, officers decided to impound the vehicle for further investigation. Yet they allowed Jalissa to go back to her apartment. While photographing the exterior of the vehicle, officers decided to impound the vehicle for further investigation, yet they allowed Jalissa to go back to her apartment. While photographing the exterior of the vehicle, as well as the interior through the open windows, officers found a red, discharged shotgun shell in the center cup holder of the vehicle. But before the car was impounded, officers opened the trunk

and discovered a shotgun, in plain view, tucked behind a gray colored blanket. The gray blanket appeared to have blood on it as well, and more of that unknown tissue matter. Further, the blanket appeared to be wrapped in a way to conceal something inside of it. Upon lifting the blanket for inspection, a deceased and apparent juvenile human body was present inside that gray blanket, and this individual had heavy facial trauma. Officers immediately went to the address and that apartment number that Jalissa gave them, but when they got there, of course, nobody answered the door. Which, hello, that's probably why they shouldn't have let her go in the first place. Forced entry was made into the apartment, and Jalissa wasn't inside.

Afterwards, police were able to watch the apartment surveillance footage, and Jalissa was seen leaving the apartment building with a male wearing a large backpack just minutes prior to the police arriving. A short time later, Jalissa and the male were located by officers and taken into custody, which, thank God, because had she escaped or somehow did something worse and committed another crime, police would have a lot of explaining to do as to why they just dropped her off at home and believed this weird tampon and butcher deer meat story. I also want to say, note to all men, there is absolutely no reason a woman would have blood all over their face because of a tampon. So if you ever get that excuse, that is not a thing. That is not a thing. Anyways, the male that was with Jalissa when she was arrested was her boyfriend at the time, and he was released from custody as he had absolutely nothing to do with the crime.

When Eli's autopsy came back, it was revealed that Jalissa had shot him while he was sitting in the back of the car, and she shot him nine times. The Spring Lake woman charged with shooting and killing her six-year-old son faced a judge for the first time today. And there were lots of questions regarding how a mother with a court file full of red flags could be granted custody less than two weeks before she allegedly murdered her son. Jalissa Thaler is accused of shooting young Eli multiple times Friday, putting his body in the trunk of a car. Lou Raguse poured through hundreds of documents today. He joins us now with what he's learned.

Lou? Well, Randy and Julie, court records reveal the great lengths Julissa Thaler went to keep Eli from his father, who social workers noted was a positive influence on the boy. Yet, Thaler received custody. Everybody failed him. Just about anyone who's heard of the tragic case, the shooting death of 6-year-old Eli Hart, allegedly at's heard of the tragic case, the shooting death

of six-year-old Eli Hart, allegedly at the hands of his mother, has the same question. How did she have custody of him? I am just outraged that people could fail a six-year-old little boy like that. Julissa Thaler has been filing reports regarding Eli's dad, Torrey Hart, since she was pregnant. In this St. Paul police report, she accuses him of abusing him, then later admits, quote, because of her mental health issues, she constantly accuses Hart of things he doesn't do. Tori Hart has never been charged, based on Thayer's reports, and social workers note there's no evidence her accusations are true. But court records reveal the father filed for custody in March, and a week later, Thayer bought the shotgun she's now accused of using to kill her son.

A child protection case had been ongoing since January 2021, when Thayer was hospitalized, according to court records, hearing voices and having paranoid delusions. As late as two weeks ago, officials overseeing the case told the judge they still had a number of concerns, including Thayer's mental health and her repeated attempts to keep Eli from seeing his father. But they still recommended the court give Thayer custody and close the protection case, in part to clear the way for Eli's father to fight for custody in family court. A judge agreed on May 10th, and Eli returned to Thayer's home full time. Ten days later, the child was dead, his mom in jail charged with killing him, and everyone else wondering why all those red flags weren't enough. The system didn't do enough to protect him.

Now, an expert in child protective services explained to CARE 11 that in Minnesota, an active CPS case would have to be closed, just like this one was, before a custody case could then proceed in court. Now, despite all the red flags, those overseeing this case stated in the court documents that they did not think Eli would be in, quote, physical harm when he's in his mother's care. Jalissa's mental competency was raised in her criminal case, and she was examined to see if she was mentally competent and able to understand the charges that were against her. And she was. Jalissa's trial was

in February of 2023, and if you can believe it, even more disturbing and gut-wrenching details were revealed, as well as the events, or as I would call it, the unevent, that led to Jalissa deciding to kill her own son. Because it literally happened out of led to Jalissa deciding to kill her own son because it literally happened out of nowhere. Jalissa's defense was simply saying she didn't do it and the defense told the jury that there were no witnesses who heard her talk about the killing, no witnesses who saw her pull the trigger because she didn't. Okay, it seems like the writing's on the wall, but a lot of people began to question this. A lot of people began to question her guilt, saying she's never exhibited, you know, homicidal behavior before. Nobody was there to witness the

crime. She hadn't outcried or confided in anybody that she was having these thoughts. So people were actually getting divided, even though it seemed like such a black and white situation. Prosecutors then showed surveillance video from the night before Eli's body was found, and this showed Jalissa leaving her apartment with her son and loading a long object wrapped in a blanket in the trunk. Jalissa spent over a month shopping for that shotgun, allegedly telling a salesman who sold her the ammo that she wanted the type of gun that would blow the biggest hole in something. She also bought 40 rounds of ammunition. Investigators found Eli's booster seat in a dumpster with a huge hole blown into it

where the child's head would be. They also found Eli's backpack in the dumpster and it was streaked in blood with his homework still inside of it. A nearby gas station surveillance video showed Jalissa washing her hands in a pothole puddle, trying to clean herself up. Now guys, I always say, Google, it will be the death of you if you are a criminal, no pun intended. But like, some of these people, it just blows me away that you even still use Google if you're going to commit a crime.

But her Google search history gave wicked and very cruel insight into what exactly Jalissa was thinking and planning. and very cruel insight into what exactly Jalissa was thinking and planning, with some of the searches done months before she was even granted full custody. She had googled how to keep a child from other parent with visitation, how much blood can a six-year-old lose, how to fake car insurance claim, how much whiskey to give a baby,ment from life insurance if a child dies. Most expensive life insurance for a child. How much does life insurance pay for a dead child? How to fake being home to the cops. Best whole life insurance policy for a child. How to commit a crime and blame child. Does life insurance cover drowning? Qualifying accidental deaths? Most powerful knockout drug? Student loans for six-year-old kid? What length am I allowed to saw off a shotgun

barrel? I mean, first of all, independently, each one of these Google searches is absolutely bonkers and bananas. But once again, if you're premeditating a crime and you're searching these things, go to an internet cafe. Don't go to Google. Don't use your device. This is crazy to me that people still do this. And I'm not trying to like give criminals a heads up here, but like come on guys. And some of those searches gave me more pause and like a chill down my spine than the others. How much can i saw off on a shotgun i mean the life insurance searches although the writing is on the wall of why she was searching though she's greedy she wanted the claim she wanted the money from him that's what this i

believe was about when you look at these searches but some of the other ones how much whiskey can you give a child how to blame a child for a crime What crime was she going to commit that she was going to blame her child for? Or was she trying to blame her child for his own death? It is unbelievable. Jalissa also actually called an insurance broker as well, and he testified at her trial, saying that Jalissa spoke by phone with him and applied for a $250,000 life insurance for herself. She was denied, and that she also wanted a $400,000 policy for her son Eli. He informed her that there was no such thing. Insurance policies for kids only go up to around $50,000, so he tried to talk to her about a $20,000 one and a couple other options up to $50,000, but she was very adamant about four hundred thousand dollars. No less. That was

the magic figure she wanted. But why? Now, the insurance broker got a Google News alert about the murder three months after his conversation with Jalissa. He read about the murder of Eli and said, I didn't even believe it. I said there was just no way that this is the same person. He pulled up the application that was in the queue and it matched 100 percent. So that's when he contacted law enforcement to let them know about his encounter with Jalissa. Then Jalissa's boyfriend Robert, who was her boyfriend at the time that the murder occurred, testified. And Robert told jurors that he and Jalissa knew each other in high school and that they reconnected in 2022 by getting together to do drugs together. Devastating details in court today as the jury

heard from Julissa Thaller's boyfriend about the hours leading up to Thaller leaving with her son Eli Hart. No one would see the six-year-old alive again after that. Lou Rougous has covered this entire trial. He joins us now live from the Hennepin County Government Center. Lou. Hey guys, Robert Picaranian was a highly anticipated witness because he was initially arrested with Julissa Thaller, then released once police realized he had nothing to do with the crime. His testimony was difficult to listen to, but very helpful for the prosecution. These images from 11.22 p.m. on May 19, 2022 are the last showing six-year-old Eli Hart alive. In heartbreaking testimony today, Robert Pickeranen filled in gaps for the jury

about what happened leading up to those images and what happened when Eli's mother, Julissa Thaller, returned to the apartment the next morning. Pickeranen testified while choking on tears that he and Eli were playing with kittens in Thaller's apartment at 11 p.m. on a school night when Eli started to get rowdy. He woke up the next morning by Thaller doing laundry right after her first interaction with police. Pickeranen said he assumed Eli was at school. I said, where did you go? She was kind of like, I had to go do something. Prosecutors say after leaving the apartment, Thaller shot Eli nine times with her shotgun. The defense so far has not suggested an alternative theory other than that Thaller didn't do it.

When questioning Pickeranen, they pointed out that he told police he didn't think Thaller could hurt Eli. I didn't think so, no. She was a very sweet person, he testified. Now Pickeranen's opinion of Thaller has since changed. He told me after his testimony today that he wants nothing to do with her. He hopes she gets what she deserves, and he hopes that she rots in prison. Prosecutors argued in the closing arguments while showing this picture of Eli, saying he probably thought he was going on a late-night adventure with his mom. The jury took two hours to deliberate and returned with their verdict, guilty.

At the sentencing hearing, Eli's dad and his fiance spoke about Eli, and the judge made some remarks as well. Your Honor, everyone knows Eli Hart as the victim of this senseless and horrific crime, but Eli was so much more. Eli was an amazing six-year-old boy who always woke up full of energy and laughter. He was kind, made friends easily, loved reading books. Eli had a love for animals that was very special. Eli explored, played outside, fished with his dad. Eli was an innocent, loving six-year-old boy. He did not deserve this. Eli deserved to grow up and have a safe and happy life. We know these things about Eli because he was our little boy, our son, the center of our world.

The love and connection he had with his son, that Tori had with his only son, was something I was privileged to see. You could see the love and bond they shared every second they were together. They had this extra spark between them that everyone could see. Now we only have memories and they're not enough. Time was taken from us. A lifetime of memories to be made gone. The moment I treasured as being a parent myself. Tori will never have those experiences. A lifetime without Eli robbed of us. School milestones that we will never get to see, like graduating kindergarten and elementary school. All the artwork he would have brought home and put on the fridge, taken.

The first day of middle school and high school, prom, graduation, watch him play sports, teach him to drive, stolen from us. Watching Eli grow and become a young man and what he could have been and done in this world. We will never have those memories. No more hugs, no more snuggles. They were ripped from us, straight from our souls. On May 20th, 2022, at about 1130 p.m., when an officer knocked on our door and asked to come in then asking tory to have a seat the cries from my husband broke my heart in a million pieces and then listening to the officer tell me what happened broke it into a million more watching my husband sob as his brother tried to comfort him, watching the officer's hands shake while he tried to write down his number.

And a small piece of paper was the moment I knew our lives had shifted forever, that nothing would ever be the same, the pain will never go away, this will forever affect our day-to-day lives. You can't explain the loss of your only son. You can't explain what that does to you or anyone. Then, having lost him in such a horrific way, you just can't explain how that changes your life, how the pain is so deep you can't breathe,

how nothing in your life looks or feels the same, and no one understands. Your lack of sleep at night, the nightmares of how Eli was murdered, the struggle to go to work every day knowing Eli has no more days, how painful it is that life just keeps moving and doesn't slow down for us to grieve.

No one should ever have to feel this kind of pain or experience this kind of trauma. But we have been ascendants to a lifetime of this pain, confusion, grief, sorrow, and trauma. A lifetime without Eli, the little boy who would laugh and giggle and squeal so hard when he and his dad would play at the park. It's a sound I hope never fades from our memory. The little boy who rescued a panfish that was stuck on shore when he was fishing with his dad. He was so proud. He came running in to tell me all about it but couldn't get his words out because he was so excited. The little boy who would tell me not to be scared of bees, that they were nice and we need them. The little boy that loved being on his dad's shoulders.

The little boy who when we asked him, who loves you the most, would always reply, you both do. There are no more triple hugs, no more I love you, no more memories to be made. Just emptiness. It was a happy six-year-old boy, our little boy, that we loved so deeply. Jalissa, who is now 28 years old, was sentenced to life in prison. I think that we can all agree at this point that Jalissa is a very different kind of cruel and evil, but in my opinion, she has literally no remorse, no shame, no guilt, no anything at all, as evidenced by her statement to the court after her sentencing. Um, I'm innocent. Paul, you're garbage. That's all you're on. Ms. Fowler, I don't know that that's appropriate here.

Sorry, I told you what somebody else can. Okay, thank you everyone for your hard work in this case. Tori filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the DCSS and the actions of Guardian Sherry Larson and the social workers Beth and Jennifer, who provided regular reports to the court on Jalissa's behavior as a mother. Torrey alleges that Jalissa may have pulled the trigger, but that the county's failures were a cause of his son's death. Despite all of their previous records and documentation that I mentioned earlier, along with multiple statements from family members urging and pleading with them not to give her custody, the department's position was there is no current indication

that her son is physically unsafe in her care. Tori's attorney said that had proper care and reasonable decision-making been employed here, Eli would not have been returned to his mother. She would not have had the opportunity to kill him. In response to the lawsuit, one social worker filed an answer in early March of this year, denying the allegations against her. The other defendants have yet to file a response. In her answer, Beth argued that she may be protected by various immunity doctrines.

This case is so heartbreaking and so maddening. The fact that I feel like a broken record after discussing so many cases where CPS around the country have failed just goes to show how truly messed up things actually are. Because I have only covered a tiny percentage of the total number of CPS cases around the country. I can't even begin to imagine how Tory and his family must feel. As much as I understand parental reunification in theory, I just don't think that it is proving to be effective in actuality. Not in every circumstance. If anything, it seems like it could be pointing to the opposite. That it actually leads to more child endangerment and death than anything else in a lot of these cases. I'm not saying that's

the rule for everything, but more times than not in the cases we're talking about, that ends up being what happens. And that's just my opinion, guys. So please let me know yours. I know that the goal is never to rip away a child from their biological parents. I understand that. And that you want to make it work with, you know, at all points possible. But I think that maybe sometimes it's giving these parents entirely too much grace. And maybe if that weren't the case, tragedies like what happened to six-year-old Eli Hart wouldn't happen as often as they do. I understand that the majority of parents don't want to lose custody and that not all cases are like this. But at this point, I'm starting to question if the policies that we have in place are more for the parents or if they truly are for the children.

Because it feels like a lot of children, including Eli, didn't have to die and could have lived a better life without their biological parents or single parent. It makes me wonder whose life and well-being is really being cared for here by CPS. Maybe if parents knew like, hey, CPS will actually take your children away more quickly and enforce more harsh penalties. Maybe if that were the case, parents wouldn't treat CPS as some sort of minor annoyance that's in the way of them and that they can skirt by. I mean, probably not, but still. Then on the other hand, of course, those policies don't make sense at all for parents who are actually working on themselves, actually trying to be better and have a different

life for their kids and those who truly care about the well-being of their children. I don't know. It's just super frustrating. And I want to hear what you guys think. How many of these cases do we have to hear about before we stop getting the same answer of denials of responsibility and immunity from criminal or civil matters? It's just so disheartening and unbelievable because it keeps resulting in such horrible senseless tragedies like this one a young child dying at the hands of their own parent it's horrific so we'll see what other information comes out but like i said in the beginning of this a lot of people were divided and surprisingly a lot of people still are divided. And I don't know how that's even possible

because there's the footage, there is the insurance broker who came forward, but there's still this weird pocket of people who are advocating for Jalissa. I don't know how. If you're one of those people, tell me how. Explain it to me. Break it down for me.

Because to me, I mean, the red flags are waving and it is just not adding up. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in to another bonus episode with me. Like I said at the top of this episode, make sure you're following the podcast so that you don't miss any more bonus episodes in the future. And if you would be so kind as to just quickly rate this podcast, review it. It takes 30 seconds max to leave a review and it really does help the algorithm and help push this podcast out to more people so that these victims stories get heard which we know is the goal so thank you guys so much for tuning in to another bonus episode and I will be talking to

you again very very soon all right it's me Annie signing off. Thank you.