Sex, Lies & DM Slides - S1E10: Gizzi & Sydney | TradWives: a growing trend

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

Alena Kate Pettitt is part of the growing 'traditional wife' movement in which women CHOOSE to live a 1950's housewife lifestyle in which their husbands are the breadwinners and control their finances while they stay at home to cook and clean up. Gizzi and Sydney are understandably baffled.  Sex, Lies and DM Slides is a Spotify Original. This series was produced by Heydon Prowse Productions, edited by Podmonkey with music by Free Seed Films. For Spotify, the executive producers are Rachel Simpson and Alexandra Adey.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my name's Gizzy Erskine. And I'm Sydney Lima, and this is Sex, Lies and DM Slides. Where we invite our celebrity friends to dive deep into their DM boxes to see what terrors lurk within. We'll be chatting about online trolls, online dating, perverted proposals and why everyone's so weird on social media. Sex and Lies and DM Slides. Hello, I'm Gizzy Erskine.

And I'm Sydney Lima. And welcome to our Spotify original podcast, Sex, Lies and DM Slides, where we chat about sex and love in the age of social media. So on today's podcast, we have got Elena Kate Petit. I'm going back to university for $0 delivery fee, up to 5% off orders and 5% Uber cash back on rides. Not whatever you think university is for. Get Uber One for students.

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with our new favorite and recently played games tabs. And to top it all off, quick and secure withdrawals. Get more everything with FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600. Visit connectsontario.ca. Oh, this is a controversial one. As far from petite views on women. Yeah, I mean, this was a controversial one. That's far from petite views on women. Yeah, I mean, this was a new one to me.

Elena is a trad wife. Sid, why have we got a traditional housewife on the show? Well, Gizzy, thank you for asking. I think she's probably the antithesis of any guest we've had on so far. She probably isn't the most forthcoming with her sexual... What do you call it sexual um deviances oh yeah i mean that would be good to know because you had to explain to me what a trad wife was i did a trad wife a traditional housewife uh it's basically a movement uh where women really feel

that their place is in the home essentially and she's kind of she's she's at the forefront of this movement so she has a thing called the darling academy and a book about english etiquette and and ladies like us she pushes this idea that women belong in the home essentially okay so this is so this is the quote from the darling academy and the hashtag that she uses is apron clad army and the quote is just because we've chosen the ironing board instead of the boardroom, it doesn't mean we don't care about women's rights or female empowerment.

Now, Gizzy and I felt very like we were going to go in on her, didn't we? I think before we even started this, we had a, definitely had an opinion. I think first and foremost, I mean, as a female chef, this is something that I've always had to fight to sort of against my femininity within my industry. And to be honest, I've never had major sexism within my industry.

I'm just tomboyish and I've always naturally fitted in with that structure. But I also love to wear clothes and makeup and love music. And I've had a personality. And it's been so conflicting to me because I want to be good at my job and recognize the value of my work. Whereas my image and stuff has always been a problem. When I hear somebody glorifying the apron, domestic life, all of these things, it makes me feel very unsettled. That said, when we spoke to her, I sort of changed my mind. At which you will see. Don't do any spoilers, Gizzy. Well, I sort of, I want to talk about this a little bit.

She wants to spoil it all in the intros. I know, I know, I know, I really do. So, you know, okay, first of all, gender roles. I don't know if it's an age thing for me. I don't know if this is just how I've been brought up. My mother very, very particularly, even though I was a tomboy, you know, my mum has installed certain traits into me which I can't shake off. And it is about who's paying for what.

Like I'm taking that female role at the beginning of a relationship. I want somebody to show me how much that they want me and their values. And it's an animalistic thing to a partner. Now I know that that's now a very blurred situation because there's a spectrum of what a gender gender role is and we all sit so heavily in different and there's also this new movement of that kind of breakdown of those kind

of those gender roles so people it's much more fluid almost but i on my personal level still feel that while i fit into several different parts of my gender role, I want to be treated like, I want to be spoiled. And I want to know who's picking up the bill at the beginning. I will fucking look after someone. You know I will. Yeah, I know. You're the most generous person I've ever met. But I also want, in those first six dates, somebody to have this declaration towards me.

Because for me, that's romance. Now, that's probably a reason why I was in these absolutely disastrous positions. But, you know, it does pose the question of animalism and sexuality and, you know, submissiveness and where that fits on. Because, you know, there are submissive men that women like. You know, I submissive men that women like you

know i'm a powerful woman i like getting what i want do i want a submissive man no i bloody don't i want somebody to be able to handle me and it's so these are old-fashioned things but it's kind of how i felt and i i could empathize with certain parts of what you were saying well i i feel like i'm i recently new to the dating sphere and like i do have a tendency to go for i mean as you know a lot of the guys i have been uh entertaining have uh been uh very poor i mean that's the story my brother i mean it's like not a discussion that i that going to pay it at all and in fact I overpay for things because I don't want them to feel uncomfortable yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna like out out masculine so like I mean I've always felt really I think I've been in relationships before

where like the man's paid for a lot of stuff and it's made me feel very uncomfortable and it's also questioned my self-worth within that space so I think in order for me to feel more like an equal within relationships or if not more dominant I pay for everything this is why I'm always in my overdraft but yeah no I can totally but then why do we why do we have this nurturing because it's a nurturing nourishing thing and again please sort of I don't mean to offend by any means within the spectral side of this, but, you know, there is women, by the most part, are the nourishing, the men are the providers. Why are we, why is our sort of how we're paying for the man becoming, sitting into our nourishment

sense when the men aren't wanting to provide? It pissed me off. You went, you had a date with someone who was rich recently, and you ended up paying for fucking everything. And it pissed me off. He was like talking about the fact that he couldn't afford his mortgage or something. And I was like, well, oh my god, I don't even own a house.

And your mortgage is in fucking Knightsbridge or something. Yeah. But I think I also try and make out, because I don't really come from much money, I always try and make out that I have more money. It's like one of those, if you ever saw that Grayson Perry thing, it's like people from the documentary he did on class.

It's like people from lower class worlds, they always want to prove themselves a lot more. So there's also that that's coming into play. Sure, and I think that's a really important thing. Anyway, we'll let you make your own decisions. Here is the trad wife, Elena Kate Petit. Sex and lies and DM slides. On the line now, and it's an actual landline,

is self-styled trad housewife, Elena Kate Petit. How would you describe a traditional housewife? Well traditional housewives kind of only like to distinctly set themselves apart in the fact that we approach our job as a housewife as professionally as we would any other job. So I think there seems to be this weird misconception in the modern media that housewives sit around kind of watching daytime TV. Traditional housewives are the ones that literally spend their days, their working hours at their job of being a housewife. It harks back to an era when this is what most women did traditionally almost. So I think also the dynamic of the relationships that we have with our

husbands are quite traditional it's almost like reminiscent of what it your grandparents relationship might have been like or great-grandparents so I take on all the housework in the home and he earns the living people define tradition differently but it's just what was traditionally spoken of as a housewife and the breadwinner what did you do before you became a traditional housewife I worked in marketing in the beauty industry and product development so it was actually a fantastic job and it was really creative but I never felt at home in the workplace whatsoever I felt really toxic what I really wanted to do was domestic chores.

I'm just one of those anomalies that absolutely love cooking and cleaning. Like, it's just where I find my fulfilment. Do you think all women should be adopting this role? No, of course not. Of course not. And I think that's kind of what's been spun out of this when it hit the press is that I've never said that. Some people do, actually.

There are people that take it to the extremes and that I've never said that some people do actually there are people that take it to the extremes and say that all women belong in a kitchen which is like mightily offensive even I'm offended by that we realize no one's been talking about us this is why people think it's a movement because it's sprung out of nowhere but we've always been here it's just the fact that it's not an option anymore right and it's almost like the sort of you're there doing something which has been traditionally okay for almost like the sort of you're there doing something which has been traditionally okay for so many years and now you're being forced into a weird humiliating place your husband's what is his role in this is this something that he's ever

enforced on you I mean what does he think it's never been enforced it's something honestly I got asked this yesterday actually did we sit down and chat about it and decide not at all it was just something we really naturally fell into I think we've been lucky in the fact that we found each other he wants to concentrate on his career honestly doesn't like doing housework and he's kind of like met his complementary opposite who doesn't want to concern herself with a career and really likes housework so we naturally fell into it even when I was working funnily enough and I think a lot of women do this as well even if they're working because they know how they want their homes run so even working women are taking on a large portion of the housework still.

Is that quite a defining feature of being a traditional housewife just the housework itself or is there anything is there more to it well there's so much more to it there you know this is what i mean by running it like a business we are constantly learning new skills we are learning to economize to budget to time manage to people manage and then if we do that really well we create time for ourselves to indulge in hobbies or go and have coffee with our friends or brunch or volunteer in the wider community. You know, like it's a really rich and varied life. No two days are ever the same.

Absolutely. And I can really see the benefits from that, especially as a parent and a mother. You have referred to previously about sort of really getting kicked out of the observation of the 1950s housewife. And I think there are things that were going on then where women were meant to be excellent in the kitchen and make great lovers. I mean, how does that fit with you? This has been taken out of context as well. I mean, you know, you yourself, your hairstyles and things kind of are reminiscent of, you know, like the 50s and 60s or they have been

it's an aesthetic that I enjoy personally and a lot of the women in the community as well the 50s was the last time the housewife was celebrated in mainstream media and was something aspirational not everyone wanted to be one of course but for us now we've got nothing to look to there's no role model in modern media. So we have to kind of like find it where we see it. Sure. But we don't want to apply, we do not want to apply the 1950s lifestyle to 2020.

We're quite happy with the freedom we have and the choices we have. And this is a choice, you know. And the 50s thing is nothing more than aesthetics and a particular time in history where, you know, the the 50s thing is nothing more than aesthetics and a particular time in history where, you know, the housewife was celebrated. She was like, you know, a pillar of society. And now we're shamed for what we do. And it's really backwards, actually, because people need mothers and housewives and people want to live in a lovely home don't they so we're all doing it it's just the fact that we want to concentrate 100 of our effort on it that's all i mean i sort

of feel like i i want to um defend my hairstyle entirely based on the fact that i absolutely appreciate what you're saying but then you know if we're looking deeply into those things my hairstyle came from the 60s where it was all about the women ruling and shedding that side of themselves so I don't know you know I don't I don't know if just because we can refer to things in a pastiche way yeah but your hairstyle doesn't define you no and you're right and you but you know what the housework the housework's defining you yeah but I'm happy with that and that's the ironic thing houseworkwork defines Mrs. Hinch, and look how successful she is. Yeah, I mean,

I think a celebrity... Who's that? She's somebody who cleans up, basically, on telly. And it's just, you know, I mean, for me, it's a bamboozling thing, because I am the absolute opposite. But what doesn't make me feel comfortable is exactly what doesn't make you feel comfortable, you know?

The animalistic side to you. And me and Sydney, I think, have different opinions on this, which is interesting. Well, I'm just wondering where everything fits in. If you weren't to get married, for example, I mean, this obviously comes to being subservient to the man. If you weren't married, how would you be living your life? Well, that's the first thing I want to clear up is i'm not a servant to my husband i am purely doing things in my day that kind of by and large benefit him in a way i'm still cooking meals but i'm going

to cook those meals for myself regardless of when i'm married i just do an extra portion for him you know it's not about subservience he does not tell me what to do we never all these women these we've chosen our husbands as well this is the thing we weren't bought in a marketplace you know these are men that we love and adore and they cherish us just as much it's just a clear division of labor in our household that's all that's as simple as it is and you do have to submit to decisions that the other person makes sometimes because sometimes that's easier than arguing over things as well if he was to kind of take control and it was something that put me at risk or whatever you absolutely bet your bottom dollar that I'm going to kick off about it you know it's not applying those 50s principles about you know nice little wife you get back in the kitchen and don't say

anything do you feel comfortable though with the trad wife tag because i just want to say my elder sister is a housewife and mother and works harder than anyone i've ever met in my entire life and it is a bloody i mean something i feel i couldn't i couldn't do it myself but she wears being a parent on her sleeve she wears being a wife on her sleeve i don't know if she wants to be considered a trad I think that it's in the same way that I feel about feminism actually is that I've just worked my fucking ass off and I've just got on with it and there are so many things that people try and draw me into like being a female chef or how I look at things politically and I just don't want to engage because I actually find engaging often can be inhibiting and non-progressive.

It's just who I am and this is just what's going on. I wonder if the statement of being a trad wife is what's making people feel like it's backwards. Yeah, well, to people who don't understand it, they find it backwards. If you think about feminism as well, when it started, you have to label something in order to bring people together in a collective thought. So, you know, political parties, you have to call them conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, something like that, a way to engage with one another. On social media today as well, hashtags bring people together. So it's just a way to kind of collectively group these women who are like-minded. It's not anything threatening. And if you don't identify with it, then that's absolutely fine.

It's your choice. It is, yeah. And I feel it like, my feelings on this are you should be entitled to choice. And I feel like women, unfortunately, do have this constant pressure, whether it is body positivity or if it is being a feminist or it is anything that they feel inhibited by people's perceptions on them on the internet. And the fact that you have to feel like you've got to fight for this. When often there is something simplistic and animalistic about this, that some people just really contented with doing those things that people revert back to

as being the submissive role of the female. And I really hear everything you're saying. What was it like when you were growing up? What were your parents like? Was your mum a traditional housewife? No, total opposite, actually. Oh, really? Yeah, she'll hold her hands up and say that.

I was raised in a single-parent household, and my mum had to work. So I was childminder in parent household and my mum had to work so I was child minded in the morning after school clubs hardly saw anything of her and saw the absolute enormous pressure she was under to put food on the table and manage the household and I honestly think I was born with innate tendencies to want to be domestic so you, you know, Barbie's Dream House. And I loved even, you know, old shows where the mum was at home baking pies and things. That was just where I gravitated towards. After decades of shaky hands caused by debilitating tremors, Sunnybrook was the only hospital in Canada who could provide Andy with something special. Three neurosurgeons,

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A mad spell? Yes. A mad spell. Have you ever had like your wild years? Oh yeah, absolutely Oh, tell me more Yeah, oh proper full on, you know, sex, drug and rock and roll years And I've written about this Oh

Yeah, I've written about this Tell me more I don't want to get myself into any trouble In my kind of late teens to early twenties Because I felt so suppressed with who I was I, it's almost like self-medicating in a way. I just went out and... Come on, I'm sorry.

You cannot tell me. You went out and self-medicated because you were not able to be a traditional wife. I did. I did. I did. It's crazy. That's the funniest thing I've ever heard.

Well, it's true though. I'm using that from now on. I just wanted to be Doris Day, and instead I went out and I was like... It was more like... Yeah, Courtney Love, like a proper full-on. And it really depressed me. I mean, it depresses us all. Do you think that has contributed to you then taking on this chilled role?

Yeah. Because you've had your world, you know. Yeah, definitely. And it definitely kind of inspired me to write Ladies Like Us as well, because I saw this happening in other women. They write to me all the time, actually, saying that, like, I feel like I'm living a lie. I just really want to be a housewife and a mum.

But I feel like I'm pressured because of feminism, sadly, and because of the expectations now to go and make something of yourself in the in the working world these women are miserable and it's not who they are but we because there's so much shame and stigma around you know being a good little wifey at home they don't want to do it because who wants to be bullied would you not consider that you coming on podcasts or writing books would you not consider that a career well yeah this is the thing this is the common misconception with housewives as well is that we're not stopped from earning any money people have lots of little side hustles that's a good thing it's quite full-on i mean you're in

the media quite a lot it's quite a full-on career well career or kind of campaigning. It depends on how you define it because I feel really passionate about this subject. Who's doing the cooking dinner tonight if you've got to go

and do a TV show or something? Well, I'm not. This is the only thing on today. So you, but you would,

what I'm saying, I think what Sydney's saying is like, would, say your career, this suddenly picks up and you get a proper career out of this.

You're like, you become Doris Day because she wasn't at home all the time. No, she wasn't. No, she was married four times as well. Bless her. Yeah.

Bless her. The future's bright. It must be a dream to want to write a book. So it must be a real genuine passion that you want to facilitate, which then becomes a career, right? Yeah. Well, I wrote, see, Ladies Like Us, us my first book I wrote that because I felt so passionate about wanting to share my story and what I've learned um and they're self-published as well which is like vastly different from having you know publicists and agents and all that kind

of stuff um and it has picked up there's no denying that but there's no knowing what will happen tomorrow I could be chip paper tomorrow so I'm taking every opportunity I have at the moment to get the message out there that these women aren't alone but where it goes I don't know my husband and I have actually discussed it and we're kind of because it's happened out of the blue almost we're a bit like whoa what do we do with all your campaigning do you find yourself converting people at all like are you are you kind of building the movement no it's not about coming going out there and converting people it's education for people that don't understand it extremist housewives it's purely just educating people but because it's so rare these days for people to stay home

or it to be talked about that's actually the issue is that we're not talking about it so it's an education for people that don't understand it whatsoever and then for those housewives and husbands I've had loads of emails from men I bet yeah tell me what comes into your inbox because that's the whole point of this well I've I've had... You get to get seedy men. No, it's been really wonderful. On Twitter, which is the worst place on earth, by the way, it's just horrific. There have been some weirdos, because they're just there, aren't they? Go on, it's quite fetishy, isn't it, being a traditional housewife?

Oh, I don't know. Where do I find a wife like you? Some people are into... These are the really extreme people as well, do I find a wife like you? And all, you know, like just some people are into it. These are like the really extreme people as well. Like domestic discipline and stuff like spanking and stuff. And I'm like, I'm like,

I'm a bit prudy now. Do you get quite a lot of fetish people kind of? Yeah, there have been some like, especially like regards to aprons and stuff. Right. It's just like blocks. Do people ask you to send photos?

I'm a chef and no one's asked me to send them my apron. For fuck's sake. I did have a message. Someone slid into my DMs actually the day I was on this morning and asked if I had PayPal because I had really nice hands.

Oh my God. Did you send it? No, of course not. Hands amount to cheating. Hands amount to cheating. Well, it is. We're going to send another man a picture of your hands for money.

That's a bit weird. Or a good business decision. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. Maybe some women out there could make some serious money off that. You never know. Like send pictures of aprons or something. It's our mission to find them.

Yeah, not me. Not me. I'm going to stay far away from that. So what other kind of messages do you get from people? Do you get a lot of hate? No, not me. Not me. I'm going to stay far away from that. So what other kind of messages do you get from people? Do you get a lot of hate? No, not directly. They never contact me directly. They're too cowardly to do that.

But the ones, the emails that I've had, like personal messages and things, are wives that are already living this lifestyle and feel like they're constantly shamed and they're so glad that people are talking about it. I've also had messages from the husbands in that dynamic as well, saying my wife and I just saw you on this morning and we're so pleased that you're talking about this.

Just going to say lucky motherfucker for the fact that he's not at work and getting to watch this morning. Well, yes! And then there's like older women as well, you know, like their children have flown the nest and they said, I've lived this life and I understand exactly where you're coming from. And the fact that I was constantly pressured to go back to work, but it's the best thing I ever did was raising my children. And then the ones that I love are the single men that say you've given me hope because they're the ones that I hate right now. What hopes that they will be like completely looked after by their wives?

No, it's not about... It's so much more than the man. It's about the family, and it's about his children as much as hers being raised by them and not by strangers in a childcare setting. It's quite hard to be living on one wage. Do you think that it's a movement more aligned to the middle classes no because i'm we are working class through and through i do have to say i think sydney's got a point there though i mean it does bloody well cost a lot of money it really does

it really does these days it's a different situation yeah cost of living is so high it's horrific and you do have to make real changes in order to live this way but there are so many people already doing it there is information out there how you can do it a lot of women are actually saving money now they're not working because so much was going out on child care and commuting and coffees and lunches let's say there's something that you need that is outside of household runnings. Do you have to ask him for money for clothes and stuff? Well, we discuss. So he's got a lot of control.

Yeah. Well, no, because he'll discuss things with me as well, what he wants to say. Yeah, but control, I think by that it's, you know, he chooses when you can buy clothes and not. Well, yeah, but that is only based upon what we've got in our budget. So if it's there, it can happen. Same with him. If there's something he wants, if it's there, it can happen. But we'll discuss it together.

So if he wants to spend a grand on a computer or something, I'm like, do you really need that? Like, you've got one. And he'd probably say the same to me. Do you really want those shoes? Love, you've got a pair that look identical it's about being sensible with money not throwing it away for the sake of like i just want it you know there's a difference between want and need and in order to live this lifestyle we have to concentrate more on the needs than the wants yeah but when

it's there absolutely and he spoils me as well which is what i love like it's you know i might say oh i really like this dress what do you think i'm brilliant at sendingils me as well which is what I love like it's you know I might say oh I really like this dress what do you think I'm brilliant at sending subtle hints as well they're called links in emails he's got like a specific folder in his email where I send him the things that I kind of like these are my wants they don't always happen but for the other day a dress turned up in the post and he went I thought you'd like it and I was like oh that's right I thought you'd like it I actually saw that you were yeah well

yeah actually no he did think this one was sent from a marketing email from a previous dress he bought me actually but he saw it and he thought

it was pretty and thought it would look nice on me so he bought it for me thank you for listening to our Spotify original podcast Sex Lies and DM Slides please follow us on Spotify

and tell all your mates about it if you enjoyed it and if you have any weird and wonderful Sex Lies and DM Slides stories of your own, do slide into our DMs at Sydney Lima and at Gizzy Erskine. No dick pics, please. Also follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Sex, Lies DM Slides.

This Spotify original podcast is a Hayden Prowse production produced by Amanda Redman, edited by Matt and Scott at PodMonkey. With music by Free Seed Films, our executive producers at Spotify are Rachel Simpson and Alexandra Adie.