Sex, Lies & DM Slides - S1E12: Gizzi & Sydney | Klub Verboten

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

Gizzi and Sydney chat to Karl Verboten the founder of Klub Verboten, the edgiest fetish club in London. They’re keen to ask him about why there is a no wanking rule in his sex club and are rather offended to learn that they can’t jump the queue.  Sex, Lies and DM Slides is a Spotify Original. This series was produced by Heydon Prowse Productions, edited by Podmonkey with music by Free Seed Films. For Spotify, the executive producers are Rachel Simpson and Alexandra Adey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my name's Gizzy Erskine. And I'm Sydney Lima, and this is Sex, Lies and DM Slides. Where we invite our celebrity friends to dive deep into their DM boxes to see what terrors lurk within. We'll be chatting about online trolls, online dating, perverted proposals and why everyone's so weird on social media. Sex and Lies and DM Slides. This podcast contains adult content,

graphic details of our sex lives, and the filthy contents of our inboxes. You have been warned. I'm going back to university for $0 delivery fee, up to 5% off orders, and 5% Uber cash back on rides. Not whatever you think university is for. Get Uber One for students.

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So Giz, I was doing my investigating throughout the week on sexy things and I found this thing that came up called Fed Leg. It's a fetish. Fed Leg? Have you heard of it? No. I'm really scared to ask that. Fedleg. Sounds like a disease. Yeah, so Fedleg is basically a new fetish. Oh, God. It's kind of like been made through, you know, Reddit. It's like one of these subreddits called Fedleg. Yeah. And it's made appearances in lists of weirdest internet communities.

But it's about yellow legs. Oh, no. No, no. So basically, it kind of comes from, well, it's basically painting women's legs yellow. What? No. Hang on, I'm Googling this. Okay, so in the five years since it started,

the Fed Legs subreddit has gained 6,500 members. 6,000 people like yellow legs? People post pictures of yellow-legged celebrities and models that they have happened across online with captions like, she is a proud fed leg and shiny and fed. Show me some pictures. It's just like yellow legs. It's like nothing more to it than being like painting people's legs yellow.

It's very niche. Apparently it's like something to do with, they're trying to justify it with its own history of how it's come to be the fed leg. So basically like women, it's punishment for women getting their legs out. They say how it's come to be the fed leg. So basically, it's punishment for women getting their legs out. They've got to paint their legs yellow. So that just made me open up the Thrill List. 20 Bizarre Sexual Fetishes You Never Knew Existed. Yeah.

Right. So agalmotophilia is the attraction of inanimate objects. So here you go. You know, like, statuesque dolls, mannequins. I blame them. Not mannequins because some of them are pretty damn hot.

Especially Kim Cattrall who is now more plastic than person. Wow. Oh God. Macrophiliacs who get off to giant things. I'm taking a Godzilla-sized dog.

I'm going to ask you if you can guess what these are. Okay. Klepto-Langnia. Someone who sleeps. No. Someone you're fucking what these are. Okay. Klepto-lagnia. Someone who sleeps. No. Someone you're fucking when you sleep.

Who steals. Oh, I thought klepto was... Stealing. Oh, no. Okay, yeah. Sorry. Oh, here we go. This might be a bit more like the fed leg.

Abasophiliacs. Abasophilia? Yeah. Someone who's into sea bass. It's abasio. Abasophiliacs, but fine. It's Abasio. But fine. It's very hard to tell with Gizzy's pronunciation

of these things where the actual Latin core is. So these are people into leg braces or other orthopedic devices. Actually, when I was a body piercer,

one of the famous tattooists was into having sex with people with no limbs. Really? He really was. I remember that. I don't know how many are there. I don't know.

They've got somebody who's into painting someone's legs yellow. I'm pretty sure they must be. Okay, what's coprophilia? Copra? Yeah. Coprophilia. Oh, no. Oh, no.

So I think coprophilia is someone who's into cops. No, it's feces. Oh, why cop? Oh, copulation. No, what's that? It says most coprophiliacs enjoy watching others go and do a number two. However, there is a subcategory called coprophagia, which is a sexual fetish of eating doo-doo.

Two girls, one cup. Oh, God, I remember that. That was absolutely vile. That was quite famous. Does anyone else remember? Two girls, one cup, yeah. Should we just explain it for those who? Yeah, go on, I remember that. That was absolutely vile. That was quite famous. Does anyone else remember? Two Girls, One Cup, yeah.

Should we just explain it for those who... Yeah, go on, you explain it. I'm pretty sure it was just two girls and a cup of shit

that kept going back and forth from them, wasn't it? Yeah. It was just a lot of shit. A lot of shit. That's disgusting. Why is that so vile?

That's got to be my phobia and not my fetish. No, that's disgusting. There was a really famous story about a very famous singer, I'm not sure we're allowed to say who, who apparently used to like

laying underneath the glass table and have people shit on her. Really? Yeah. That's quite a big move for a woman, I think. I don't know, I sort of get why boys

might like that. Oh, really? My friend likes girls pissing on him. Have you ever done a golden shower? No, I haven't pissed on anyone. Oh, and let anyone piss on you?

No, I don't want anyone pissing on him. Have you ever done a golden shower? No, I haven't pissed on anyone. I let anyone piss on you? No, I don't want anyone pissing on me. My worst. Obviously, we've learned a few new kinks today. New fetishers, Gizzy. And it kind of leads us nicely into our interview that we did with fetish club owner, Carl Verbotten. He owns Verbotten Nightclub. Nightclub.

Go off to do some jazzy moves at the nightclub. Finger banging. Yeah, exactly. That's your jazzy move at this one. Carl runs Club Verboten, which me and Gizzy desperately try and get invited to do. Yeah. Just to let you know, this was recorded pre-COVID. So any references to crowded sex clubs, Carl

Verboten was not breaking any lockdown rules. Here it is. Sex and lies and DMs slide. 26. Thanks so much for coming in, Carl. You're a big name on the fetish party scene as founder of Club Verboten. Is that how you say it? Almost, yeah. Go on, how do you do it? Verbot of Club Verboten. Is that how you say it? Almost, yeah. Go on, how do you do it? Verboten.

Verboten. And what does Verboten mean? Is it something about bottoms? No, it means forbidden in German. And it was kind of an uproar against, you know, the rise and forbiddenness of things in the club culture. What is it about the Germans and the kinks? I think it's like in the upbringing, you know, me, for example, I was born in the former

eastern part and being naked was a very natural thing, you know, mainly because like clothing weren't really available under communist regimes. But it was a very natural thing, you know, and these days you could talk with your grandparents about this. Oh, I'll go to a fetish club and it's completely okay, you know, you have a laugh about it and it's completely socially accepted in a way. Is there something historic then about, I mean, like, do you think these things came out of the war, should we say? I mean, or just having been inhibited or do you think it's something that sits within German culture that allows people to be a bit more open? Yeah, I think like, you know, all these kind of things, they flourish under suppression. And East Germany was like the perfect example for it.

So once the war came down, people were just released and free and to do whatever they wanted to do. So definitely that has a major impact on it. Absolutely. So why did you set up the club? Club Verwerter. I will get it by the end of it. I really want to do it without a really ridiculous German accent as well. I mean, you know, we didn't invent the wheel, but when we came to the scene,

we really just wanted to create something that addresses newer generations that had different demands. We're very much about contemporary music and a very contemporary sort of audiovisual landscape. And we felt a need for that. You know, also for us coming from Germany, like we never really wanted to have a gender sort of attached to our flag.

You know, our place is open to everyone. We're welcoming everyone that is there for that kind of spirit. So how do you see yourself as a club? We're up against sort of the ones that I suppose have become, dare I say it, household names, places like Torchgarden and stuff. What makes yours unique?

I think mainly, you know, the sound and the landscape of it. We also, you know, we started building our own range of furniture, our playroom furniture. So with every entity that we do, we try to give it a bit of a modern or younger approach, if you will. You know, but in the same way, all the other events that are out there, with every entity that we do, we try to give it a bit of a modern or younger approach, if you will. But in the same way, all the other events that are out there, like TG, they're very unique. They're very much about performances and big shows.

So in that way, we don't clash at all. What are in these playrooms? Loads of people being liberated and having fun. I mean, we in Sydney are going to come one day, by the way. no, you know it's membership only so we actually have to pass the membership. Can we not get in? No. No! Same rules for everyone.

Same rules for everyone. I thought we might have a shortcut. No chance. No chance? I'm really not into that. What are the requirements for membership? You know, we just try to keep our little community as safe as possible. And the membership system is a great part of that. It's by all means not perfect, but it allows us to look for certain genuinity in people

for, you know, a real reason why they want this whole picture of it and not just a quick check. You know, when I think of fetishism and, you know, I was a body piercer for a long time and our receptionist actually owned Torch Garden. And my very, very first modeling job was actually at Torch Garden and my very very first modeling job was actually at Torch Garden when I was way too young and got thrown out on stage in some of the most incredible fashion you know you've got to look at some of the biggest British designers you know someone like Alexander McQueen, Lee McQueen was really inspired by the fetish scene and you know picture me 15 years old. Jesus Christ.

It was a wild, it was a wild ride, but it did happen once. And actually being thrown onto the catwalk, topless, but in some of the most extraordinarily beautifully designed clothes. And actually, you know, go to Torchgarden and it being like a moment in time in that it was, it was a vibe, it was a scene. It was very much a happening, bouncing place that was really creative, actually. But to describe that, it's sort of like picking out a scene

within the 90s, you know. I'm trying to visualise what yours looks like in 2020. I think it's a lot about high humidity levels, sweat, really well-placed shadows and a huge collective of people that's in some way connected. It's really hard to describe. Whether it may be that little moment when you get stuck to someone through your latex dress when you pass them

or you just get this sense of smell that is in the air somehow. What kind of smell is that? A mixture of all kinds of human body fluids you can imagine. And rubber. And some faux body fluids as well, maybe a bit KY. What's that? It's KY jelly. Did you really just ask me that?

What's it? Lube. Oh. Now I'm feeling very vulnerable. Oh dear. now I'm feeling very vulnerable so wait what kind of fetishes do you see what kind of things people drawn to like all kinds and I think that's like really beautiful about it I mean we inherit so many different kings and fetishes or practitioners of certain skills and and that makes it interesting You can walk from like a very heavy impact play scene into someone that is more on a latex side of things. So being completely rubbed up and, you know, just being in the corner observing and taking part in some form of voyeurism

and being looked at and so on. So that really defines the landscape. Back in the 90s, you were not, I mean, it happened, don't get me wrong. The clever people knew where to go and there was a lot of fucking going on. But it wasn't, I think, legal. Is that fair to say? Or have things changed these days? I think no one really knows.

And that's the fun part about it. I mean, you know, as we speak here, how many people is having sex right now in some hotel room or some home party or whatsoever? What we do is we provide a safe space that is monitored, that is super safeguarded like no other place. So we provide a space that is there to be liberated and indulge in all those activities while being safe. Sure, but I understand that. But where does that sit within the law? Like, is it legal? Or is that a really dodgy question? Yes, well, there's no law against it.

Right. Okay, perfect. That's my favorite kind of law. I mean, there are these terms in the air like sex license. Well, the term doesn't exist. There's a sex establishment license, and that defines how strip clubs, sex cinemas, porn cinemas, and so on operate.

But we got to think and understand that, you know, all these laws and rules applied are determined places that are very much in the past, you know, of like, what I can only see there is cis, straight, white, male guys paying for some form of performance. And there's nothing like that, you know, no relation like that to our event at all. And that's something where licensing, where authorities have to catch up on, because at the end of the day, we all want to keep people safe. And just restricting and banning just pushes it somewhere in the dark corners again.

Speaking of dark corners, is there anything that you don't stand for within it? Is there any specific kinks that either have shocked you previously or you're like, somebody's tried to bring something into the club that is really not okay? I mean, we're not easily shocked. We're there to facilitate and we're not there to judge. There are, of course, certain boundaries in play that if you look at a community, it might be too much for people that come newly to the scene

or it might disturb other people in their play. And then there's also the question of safeguarding. So there's certain things or objects that people obviously can't bring into a large environment with hundreds of people because it would pose a risk. But then we don't really judge on that. We just friendly say, well, maybe you can't do this here tonight, but in a smaller event we can maybe facilitate.

Beyond that, I think everyone has hard limits you know so do we have even shit um i mean it's the one thing that i would find really hard i mean you know it's um everyone has their threshold um some people are heavily into it and that's completely fine for us um it's just in that aspect, it's something we can't facilitate because in a group of hundreds of people, there are definitely a few like you that might be not okay with it and then we can't have it. I just read there's a ban on solo wanking.

Oh, yeah. Why is there a ban on solo wanking? I mean, in a busy environment, it's just never solo wanking. It's always aimed at someone in some way. Don't get me wrong, like voyeurism is a total legit kink, but if you're

just in a corner quietly masturbating at someone, it just puts everyone else at unease, you know. It's just no fun. Like it's like being in a round of people and being the only one not making a joke, you know. So how do you like, I mean do you have to put like no solo wanking signs? With a visual! A visual! A bit cross through. One dick, two dicks! Yeah, no, no, absolutely.

I mean, there's science and, you know, if you indulge in it, there might be, you know, one of our guardians that walks up to you and just says, hey, can you please not do that or do it in a different way or involve someone. You know, there's plenty of options. So people, the guardians patrol, essentially, to make sure everything's kind of okay. Absolutely.

And is there any other rules other than the solo ranking ban? Oh, plenty, yes. We have about 12 rules. Everyone has to read and accept them before coming to our event in the application process. And they're also on display and they're being enforced through not just our guardians, but also the community that looks out for each other.

What else is on the rules? For example, it's a mild one. You can't sit on any furniture that is there to be used in a BDSM-type context because it's not a bench. It's not IKEA furniture. It is there to be used by people that want to indulge and play, for example. Get off my bench. Any others?

Just generally, all these rooms sum up one thing in particular, and that is just not to behave like an absolute idiot or dick. You know, they're all there to make sure everyone has a great time and can freely have that time, and they're there to prevent people from chatting up everyone with the same sort of heavy cruising line. It's just annoying. Yeah, I'm sure.

And a lot of the people going, you're saying that they're getting kind of younger, a younger crowd. What kind of age group is it now? Our minimum age is 21, but our community range is from 21 to, I don't even know how old the oldest person is. Prime Big Deal Days is coming October 8th and 9th

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Learn more at sunnybrook.ca slash special. The majority is around 30, 35. That is interesting. How long are these nights? How long do they run for? How long are people playing? I think the night is much longer than people able to play. I mean, yeah, you definitely see some exhausted faces usually around like 3, 3.30. Really? So what time is this open for? We run from 10.30 to whatever the license conditions allow us. So 4, 6 usually.

By 6, usually people are tired. Right. Get some people flaking out. Because it's not just the sexual acts. I mean, there's a lot of dancing there. You know, you've got big DJs. You know, you're sort of big into techno. Is that right? Oh, yeah, massively, massively.

We're pushing the lineups this year heavily because it's probably going to be the last year when we're not paying for additional artist fees or visas. Very true. God, Brexit's ruining fetishism. What a nightmare. I saw you had your Instagram page for it. Do you get many strange dms on that i mean not in the way one would think like these days like the strangest requests are you know where's your website or stuff like that really but you know like in a sense of like we of course yes we get involved in people's fantasies you know when they message us message us. And that's part of it. What do you mean you get involved with them? You know, King plays out in various forms and sometimes also in this approach towards this event.

And that's the great thing about it. You know, this first anxiety, this first sort of not knowing what you're going to step into when you go to your first few events. That's great. Can you give us an example of that? No, I can't. Have you ever been to a veggies club? No, I thought we were going to go, Gizzy, but we seem to have been uninvited.

I know. We'll just have to find another one. I can empathise with that. I was very much part of the scene for a good few years. I think by all accounts, what you're offering is something which is far more real and less of a fashion show and performance based thing. It's really actually where people do go and are able to act out their fetishes. And I'm fascinated by this special room and all of these tools you have. What's the most unusual thing that you've built? I accidentally switched the house lights on one event at 5.30 in the morning and it was in the dark room.

I shouldn't have done that. Oh, wow. And? And I looked into like loads of surprised faces. They were all nodded into each other. Like, whoa. It's like, it's okay. It's all good in the dark.

And suddenly you're like oh wow this is quite a weird ask but english boys they you know think that they're kinky but they don't really get it do they by the most part they try we're not too sure we find british men particularly kinky i mean it's my biggest frustration. Do you get many British men in your clubs? Yeah, of course. Yeah, absolutely. I think, like, give people time, you know. I think it's something that, A, develops later in your life

and you're allowed to make mistakes. Do you think that we just need a sexual revolution? For so long, it's been the focus on women being able to sort of put their bodies out there in the correct way and own themselves in the correct way, which means that they can do what they want as long as it's within their own personal remit. Whereas with boys, I think they've always been sticking their willies everywhere, but not really understanding sexuality, if that makes sense.

Do you think the men are due a sexual revolution? Straight men, maybe. I mean, you know, it really takes some time. And, you know, we always try to take this momentum, people run into the event, out of it. You know, it's best to go there first, watch it a bit, inherit it, take up on reading, you know, ask questions. And, you know, but in the process of it, I think you will find yourself discovering yourself a little bit more and develop, you know.

And you might develop things you never thought you're capable of. And that's a really interesting process. Do you think in an age where there are phones and, you know, apps. Is there specific apps towards fetishists? And do they act like Tinder? And do they, you know, how does that work? And what are they? Oh, yeah, definitely. I think, like, my most favourite platform is definitely Recon or FetLife.

FetLife. Fet. FetLife. Fet. FetLife. I'm like, what's FetLife? That's very specific. Gizzy's making notes. I am. Fet life. Fat. Fat life. I'm like, what's fet life? That's very specific. Gizzy's making notes.

I am. How do the apps work? I think they are like platforms for sharing content and making connections among people that, you know, indulge in BDSM or have a certain fetish. And they're great in some way because, because you know I think like once this thought develops in your head you're initially left on your own a little bit and once you find a platform or community you realize you're not that abnormal anymore. Do you have a presence on any of these apps? Yeah yeah I do but I just it doesn't work for me. Do you think in a way that sort of finally in Instagram or Facebook became your, you sort of

built your community around like-minded people finally? Is it more that or do you think people use them for fucking or for fetish and be able to utilize their fetishes? I think like, yeah, people are initially curious, you know, they hear something and are curious. And then from there, the path splits, you know. I think it takes some time to really develop a fetish properly and a kink. So some hang around, others not. Literature and films, I mean, Fifty Shades, all of that sort of stuff. Have you seen a rise in people wanting to be involved in fetishes since that? And do you think there's a, is it sort of, is there a hierarchy of like at what stage people come into a club like yours?

Interesting. I mean, I think like there was, we took a bit of a hit on the publications and literature side of things. But what really happened in recent years is that there are more independent publishers and people come to the scene and do small little scenes like the Parafila Collective or, for example, the London Vagabond, who publishes like the most rawness of people, you know, people's habits you can find. And that really, really makes things or, you know, makes younger generations again being interested in that, but also, you know, helps answer questions in some way. So I think in terms of hierarchy, it's been pretty much nuked, you know, helps answer questions in some way. So I think in terms of hierarchy, it's been pretty much nuked, you know.

The big sort of stories are gone and now it's split into so many individuals that publish and do and that makes it really interesting. You have to look for it because mostly they are, you know, shadow banned on social media whatsoever. But there's really good stuff out there.

That's interesting. I mean, I don't know. I remember in the 90s, there were a lot of films that were getting made about fetishes. And even really incredible sort of print media was really strong as well. But now, I mean, maybe it's just because I'm not in that world,

but, you know, there was a great film out last year called Piercing, and it was about... Did you watch it? No, no. It was really great, and it wasn't? No, no. It was really great. And it wasn't about piercing at all. It was about a psychopath. But with a lot of fetish ideology.

And it was fascinating. But like, you know, do you ever see any good stuff coming out into mainstream media? Or do you think there's a reason why the good stuff's hidden away? I think it's a little too early. It's, you know, when we talk about very, very contemporary stuff, of course, I think it's about to happen. The London Vagabond had some really good sort of more public collaborations and so on. But it needs the helping hand sometimes of a larger brand or entity to bring it out of there because they're all fighting social medias and bans and regulations and all this. So it's kind of really, really hard to be put in the right light and be understood. Yeah. There's one more thing I want to say. I'm not going to say who it was. But at the end of this big fashion show at Torch Garden, I was walking down the catwalk and then we did a big meet and greet. And at the end of that meet and greet, I got to say hi to

Pamela Anson and Tommy Lee and Marilyn Manson and Dita Von Teese. And then there was a little guy at the end who had his very, very fetish, very, very, very immersed in it in a different way, not sort of the glam, really sort of considered fashion. This guy had his dick in a cock ring, nipple clamps, ball gag, naked. And he was a very, very, very famous children's TV presenter. And I've always felt like I mean if I told

everyone first of all it would go bananas and I don't think that's correct but I always had a huge amount of respect for him in a way because he was able to go out and act out his fetishes in the correct way within a sort of you know the four walls of a specific environment whereas a lot of them behaved abysmally out of those. Do you feel like it's quite a good way for people to contain themselves within the structures of their own imagination, sexual imagination? Yeah, absolutely.

I would agree. I mean, it's a lot about, you know, self-exploration going down that journey. And I think fetishism offers various forms of expressionism in forms of clothing or certain behaviors or acts. So you can explore that and really put yourself, in particular your mind, on the very borderlines of that or boundaries of that. So that's interesting. Yeah, absolutely.

Why not? So just, yeah yeah how can people find out more about what you do at club verboten i mean obviously not got it and i just said i was like well don't sit me and then i thought god i don't know i don't think that's right i mean obviously you can follow us on social media on instagram and facebook and so on but i think like the more fun part is actually coming to one of the socials or one of the events and just chat with us where they are always, you know, and it's a much better form to being guided into something. 5,000 people though on your waiting list.

Yeah. 5,002 now. Yeah. Well, listen, Carl, thank you so much for coming on thank you this has been really enlightening and I feel like I'm I know quite a lot

about the world and you've completely shattered that and made me realise there's still so much to learn thank you so much for coming on thank you

thank you really appreciate it thank you for listening to our Spotify original podcast Sex Lies and DM Slides please follow us on Spotify

and tell all your mates about it if you enjoyed it and if you have any weird podcast Sex Lies and DM Slides. Please follow us on Spotify and tell all your mates about it if you enjoyed it. And if you have any weird and wonderful sex lies and DM slides stories of your own, do slide into our DMs at Sydney Lima

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at Podmonkey. With music by Free Seed Films, our executive producers at Spotify are Rachel Simpson and Alexandra Aidey.