Sex, Lies & DM Slides - S1E20: Gizzi & Sydney | Jeanie Crystal

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

Jeanie Crystal is the founder of Harpies, London’s first trans focussed strip club. She chats to Sydney and Gizzi about her time working as a stripper in some of London’s most exclusive clubs in The City where wealthy bankers pay top dollar for the ‘girlfriend experience’. Jeanie also advises strip clubs on best ethical practice and she chats about how the industry is changing.  Sex, Lies and DM Slides is a Spotify Original. This series was produced by Heydon Prowse Productions, edited by Podmonkey with music by Free Seed Films. For Spotify, the executive producers are Rachel Simpson and Alexandra Adey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my name's Gizzy Erskine. And I'm Sydney Lima, and this is Sex, Lies and DM Slides. Where we invite our celebrity friends to dive deep into their DM boxes to see what terrors lurk within. We'll be chatting about online trolls, online dating, perverted proposals and why everyone's so weird on social media. Sex and Lies and DM slides. The all-new FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino is bringing you more action than ever.

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Eligibility and member terms apply. Whoa, we're back. We're back. It's Gizzy Erskine. And Sydney Lima. With your weekly dose of sex lies and DS lies. A bit less itchy than chlamydia,

but only a bit. Why would it be itchy? I've never had chlamydia. Who am I trying to kid? Wait, I don't know if chlamydia's itchy. I don't either. I just assumed. You do know, don't you? I've genuinely never had chlamydia. Why are trying to kid wait I don't know if chlamydia is itchy I don't know either I just assumed you do know didn't you

I've genuinely never had chlamydia have you why are you saying our podcast is itchy because you said we're back with our weekly dose

oh I did you did you've ruined my excellent joke speaking of STIs I'm wearing him for my check back so Gizzy

I've been trying to slide into this guy's DM go on so he's quite fit so I'm just showing a picture of him oh my DM go on so he's quite fit so I'm just showing a picture of him oh my god

this guy is he's from I think he's Swedish oh wow anyway this is how terrible my sliding into DMs is and that is

why I kind of empathise with anyone who's failing to do the same so he posted a picture of a film and I just responded to the story

great film okay and he's not he's not got back to you he didn't even read it He posted a picture of a film and I just responded to the story. Great film. Okay. And he's not got back to you. He didn't even read it. That's the worst bit is when you've like done the effort of like, can you at least read it? How many followers does he have? Oh, 18,000. No blue tick.

No blue tick. I mean, he's very, very good looking. He's so fit. I think he's gay. Oh, well, that might... There we go. Get off jail free card there. Right there.

What have you been up to? What have I been doing other than being single and crying? Sorry. I don't know. You were sending me messages earlier, weren't you? Screenshots. Yeah, so let me... I'm just going to go through.

I've had quite a few people sliding into my DMs this week. Somebody did the very kind offer of offering to impregnate me. Oh, finally. I know. Got there in the end. I just want to find out what he said. So he slid into my DMs and he said, you're really gorgeous babe

I mean sexy as fuck heart heart why are you assuming that he's from a cockney was that a cockney accent how do you know he's cockney

let's see the picture I can't find actually this is a screen grab I can easily make you a mama thank you because that's all

I've wanted in life is to become a parent yeah be a mama that's nice did you, because that's all I've wanted in life is to become a parent. Yeah, be a mama. That's nice. Did you reply? Although it's going to be a cold, lonely Wednesday, baby. That's quite a good plan. Should have taken up on the mama duty.

You had a couple as well this week, didn't you? Yeah, I have. I mean, why do you think that that's the ultimate goal? That it's like, okay, I'm going to impregnate you. You know what? You're gagging. You're thotty. You're thirsty.

I'll make you a baby mama. Yeah. Why though? Is that sexy? What was it in response to? Do you remember? Or was it just a random message? I think it's just random.

I've never been offered sperm. Haven't you? I got offered... I got asked... Oh, God, no. I actually got asked if I would be a donor. A sperm donor? Egg, baby, I actually got asked if I would be a donor. A sperm donor? Egg, baby, egg.

Oh, that's quite nice. You do have excellent genes. Thanks, baby. No, I actually... She just passed. She touched my knee. Actually, very nice genes. They are very nice genes.

Suzanne, actually. Plug, plug, plug. No, I screenshotted it at the time and I sent it to my mum and I was like mum do you think I should do this they're offering me

about 50 grand ooh but she was like no Sydney she took it really seriously because I was kind of semi-joking and she was like

no Sydney you'll have a child running around and you won't know where they are and all this stuff I mean that's a fair point she was kind of talking

about me running around as a child and not knowing where I was I mean yeah that's quite would you do not knowing where I was. I mean, yeah, that's quite a huge thing. 50 grand for an egg. I mean, it's meant to be agony. Not one, a scraping.

It's meant to be agony. And also, I guess, for me, I suppose, because I'm not sure if I do want children. I know I want the circumstance. You know, I want to be in love. I want to feel like I'm in a very solid, cherished, comfortable situation. Or then I would choose to do it without it. I just don't know how I feel maternally. And I thank God I've got to 41 not being desperate for having a kid.

So it's been able to mean that every dating scenario I go into doesn't mean the end goal is to husband and impregnate me, like this guy's offering. But 50 grand? I don't 50 grand i don't know that's quite i mean i probably i would never do it but i did to 100 i probably would i would never do it i kind of have like a weird way of looking at it i don't think i'd be willing to have like my mom said a little me walking around that isn't yeah i mean it wouldn't you'd never be able to not get that out of your head i think and also like what if they did that thing when they come find you?

What do you mean? Oh, they came to find you. So the egg turns into a child. Yes. And then the child comes knocking one day and says, Sydney, you're my mum. So who have we got on today, Giddy? My good friend, Jeannie Crystal.

Jeannie, she's been a stripper for many, many years. She's really an inspiration. She's taken her position as being a stripper for many, many years. She's really an inspiration. She's taken her position as being a stripper and now she works in teaching ethics within strip clubs. She's huge in the queer and trans scene and trying to change how people act and behave in strip clubs with regards to queer and trans people and also making a more inclusive vibe oh yeah and

i thought it was quite interesting because there's the whole stuff around coronavirus and the way that strippers how they're having to adapt to that i find her really fascinating because she's you know hyper intelligent hyper sensitive she's really conscious of so many different um aspects of this industry that is an actual industry and she's kind of utilising it as a very kind-hearted businesswoman who's actually making hugely progressive changes and I just thought Jeannie had a really insightful perspective on all of that. So over to Jeannie. Today we have got our friend Jeannie Crystal on.

How did you get into the industry? So I was actually a DJ first and I was DJing at Browns and then what they do like is they have these stage shows and when the girls would go on to do their show they would leave their like purse by me and I just remember like having a sneak peek inside one once and for I'm going to do this. What was in there? Just loads of money. Oh, right. I see what you're saying. So I thought, you know what, I'm going to give this a go.

So I did a bit of research and there was this girl doing a TED Talk on dancing. And I got in contact with her and I was like, where do you think is the best club? And she told me about 23 Paul Street, and I went there and got the job. So that was it, really. That was the start of the journey. What's it like when you're auditioning for these jobs? So, Paul Street differs greatly from any of the other clubs.

It's because you don't actually have to dance to audition. They just sat me down and asked me all these like really strange questions like so if you had your own club what would the decor be like stuff like that and like you know how how would you protect the women that worked for you and i didn't take my clothes off, I didn't dance. What happens if you turned off and you, like, couldn't dance? Like, da-da-da! Well, I think Paul Street differs from the other clubs because it's more of, like, a house party. There's a lot of talking.

It's more of, like, a girlfriend experience, I suppose. You could call it that. Because it's in the city like and I'm assuming there's maybe it's a bit more expensive than other places I mean I once had a friend who was a stripper who said that on her audition she was kind of more quizzed on uh politics and stuff like that because she'd be having to speak to these guys is that the same for you they are city guys and they like to talk a lot about certain things yeah politics being one of them how much money they have maybe being another

so how do they compare to other strip clubs so when have you been to a strip club yeah i went to browns you've been to i got very got very very very drunk yeah so Browns is like I think a real classic like old school strip club there's a stage you have naked shows it's kind of that like pound in a pot vibe where you know the girl does her collection for the dance and then she makes private dances so there's no poles at Paul Street so in the basement the guys come in and then if you want to chat to them you do and then you have like sit downs it sells time so like an hour is a certain fee and they normally spend about five hours there and we have fancy dress and stuff like that and they like to get into that are you

serious so it kind of like sounds like the fun strip club. Yeah. It is fun. It is fun. What are the guys like? What's a typical punter? I mean, it's varied, but you know what a city guy's like. They spend so much time making money that the small amount of fun that they can have, they have to cram it into this five hours of really intense, debauched fun. A bit Wolf of Wall Street kinds of vibes, you know. So let's kind of paint the picture here. So you walk in as a punter and what do you see?

So you see a harem of different women in like amazing outfits. Like we're really encouraged to be like super glam. And there's a beautiful bar and there's a DJ. And then it is like essentially like a date or something, you know, or if you see someone across the bar and you catch their art, you go and chat to them and be like, you all right, how are you, how's your day? Would you like to spend some time with me?

And that's it. And then you take them upstairs and sometimes they get the karaoke machine out, sometimes they get... Oh, wow. This sounds like a great yeah I mean I I personally like dancing for couples and I like spending time with couples and we do get quite a few couples that come through there because it's like just a bit more of an interesting experience to you know

be part of this open kind of environment with normally a heterosexual couple. Do you think it's a place where people can go rather than just to be voyeuristic, where they can actually partially live out their fantasies then? I think so, yeah, definitely. And I think that's very much part of the job, trying to identify what it is that someone wants from you and then play in that role.

I take that to quite the extreme where I have a wig obviously we all have different names and very like i dress very differently to maybe that i would would normally so i have this whole persona that i take to work like method acting or whatever you know who's most likely to overstep the line in these situations women definitely that's interesting because when i've been to a strip club i think i was overstepping the line yeah i definitely have as well because you're like i'm a woman too so it's fine yeah we're on the same team and is it fine i mean i personally don't mind because like i associate as queer so like i love it you know but it's against the law so they shouldn't do that you have to be like stop it you're gonna get me fired but yeah women definitely get really really involved or on you know on the opposite side of

crossing the line i've heard some of the worst things being said to dancers from women as well so like i remember this one woman coming with a group of guys they obviously all work together and she's looked around the room and she and this was when i was managing and she was like have you got any better product and i was so shocked i was like wow girl whoa why do you think women tend to speak more like this do you think they're trying to act like how they consider men would act in that situation? I think sometimes because of the taboo around, you know, owning your sexuality and women that go into these industries, I think some women just find it so threatening that they don't know how to deal with the situation and just get a bit nasty. It's also quite patriarchal, isn't it? I suppose if you are in an industry like the city and you kind of had

to have a seat at that table and start assimilating that behavior maybe that is a reason why but the guy that sat was sat next to her was also quite like embarrassed i saw like we all just kind of like oh yeah it was awful so yeah on both sides of the scale women can can normally be a bit more out of control it's quite interesting though i think as well many people haven't been inside strip clubs and do have a perception of it that's just like so wrong from what it actually is and obviously more men use those spaces but that's something that i think really needs to be challenged that everyone should use

those spaces they are fun they're adult they're consensual it's entertainment it's erotic if more people got on board with that autonomy and agency I think it'd be if they do think it'd be better for like society and you're really making it your position there to really bring a new dynamic and a new way of thinking within the strip club so do you want to explain how that manufactures itself yeah so harpies was something that i conceived with a couple of other women and we made it one of the first trans spaces so trans women were having jobs and uh we catered basically to everyone and all different gender representations could come and work for us on that one night and it just worked out like really really beautifully it's like an it was just a beautiful night because finally everyone was kind of everyone's

sexuality was being celebrated and in like a communal way so yeah that's my kind of goal is to keep these spaces open and keep them being more progressive so just to clarify is harpies a night yeah it's a strip night uh we do it in metropolis which is a strip club well we used to i don't know if it will ever happen again but before and it's a striptease night um yeah that that centers trans women what um does the average panther look like he goes into a trans centered strip club well obviously like a lot younger a lot freer you know a lot it's a lot more varied in women and guys are there and it's just a bit more celebratory because i think because it's new and it's this idea of celebrating new bodies and new spaces yeah and sex positive is the word but would you

would you tend to go if you were it's like going to fetch club would you go if you knew and and you knew that this was a safe space or would there be people that would come off the street going oh here's a strip club i'm gonna go and then sometimes be a bit alarmed i think for us there was a responsibility that came with making a space like that so if there was like 10 lads coming in off the street I would have probably been like this isn't for you because I'm not sure you're going to be able to handle how this space is operating and I can't be responsible for whatever prejudice that you might secretly be holding him yeah exactly but i mean when i was a dancer in like the straight strip club there was a lot of confession from straight men about like you know oppressed homosexuality

and just wanting all sorts of things and you know they've got a wife they've got kids they live this very heteronormative life and then all this other desire was kind of whispered into my ear that's it's interesting that you're probably like half stripping out and half having to cancel complete it's therapy you are like you you oscillate between like you know like therapist mother whore um i don't know what what other words you would call it friend you know it's you're always kind of shape-shifting depending on what someone wants from you. And I feel like a lot of these men needed proper therapy.

Do you know what I mean? Sexually, their lives had been quite stunted. What is, I think you mentioned to Hayden and producer, this kind of mother-whore complex thing. So do people go in there expecting both mother and whore from you or is it like that's how I see it like that's how I read it and then you know like when you look at art and I think you can see it in artworks as well you know like the Virgin Mary but she's also this person that's like part of like a religious iconography I don't know there's

something in it where I did feel like sometimes you were mothering them more than like trying to be sexually arousing. Yeah. People do get off from the mother thing, don't they? Oh yeah, of course, of course they do. I mean, still some of the most searched porn is to do with your family. It is so strange.

Do many strippers ever cross into other avenues in sex work? Yeah, definitely. I mean, since the clubs have been closed, a lot of people have gone into doming because they've had to. Obviously, OnlyFans is this huge, like, it's taken over, basically. I don't know anyone because of what I do at the club is so well paid um people that go into like full service sex work which is obviously that speaks for itself doesn't it they I think that's quite separate stripping I think they're quite two very separate worlds

so it's not very common to cross into not really because because you've got such a good deal if you're at a club like that and you're earning so much money I'm not saying it's the perfect job in the world it's not but for women that want to go up the class ladder a bit quicker explain it's distribution of wealth

it's going straight to you from the top of the budget straight from the bankers I felt like Robin Hood sometimes. Miller Lite. The light beer brewed for people who love the taste of beer and the perfect pairing for your game time. When Miller Lite set out to brew a light beer,

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Yeah, I had regulars, yeah. Yeah, you definitely get those guys that keep coming back to see you and like, you know. Any gifts? Yeah, I've had a few gifts. Go on. I've had some phones

and some shoes and some bags and stuff that just you know go straight on ebay or is it have you ever found yourself into in a sketchy scenario though sketchy scenario nothing that I was like horrified by I mean I've had more sketchy situations in my personal life than in the strip club because the strip club has rules and the strip club has men that are there to protect you as well. So it's so different to outside. If anything, I've had way more sexual sketchy situations outside. In real life?

Yeah, exactly. In real life, most definitely. How has your experience as a stripper helped inform your night you put on in regards to the safety so I was when I was dancing I was also knocking about with like um because you had Monroe on who used to do pussy pan yeah I was knocking about in those circles and BBZ which is a um queer art collective and they were really into this idea of creating safe spaces and so I got to learn a lot from them of how to do door policies uh you know how to have a briefing all of the nightclub and I just put the stripping aspect of just the business model I took that and then kind of mixed it with a queer night

with performance and that that's what I like about it like Like, I was doing nights at, like, queer venues, like Vogue Fabrics and the Queen Adelaide, which is another queer pub, and bringing, like, queer performance and strippers together to perform was, like, such a vibe. But it makes perfect sense as well. Yeah, it does, because these same people, I think,

are suffering similar discriminations in society for being deviant or being taboo or being whatever people's preconceptions they have of of us but actually like you say I just feel like I've met some of the most intelligent people and just their liberation of politics has really made me feel quite quite a free woman do you know what I mean I feel empowered by the whole thing by the whole journey it's really interesting how naturally these two worlds do marry and performance being the operative side of it you know most definitely it's like being a stripper to me was basically like being a drag queen and when I watch queens I'm like yeah you're performing a hyper version of femininity and that's exactly what

I was doing in the club you know I was just amplifying my sexuality is there a difference between performing as stripper well performance and stripping for me personally I don't think there is I think it's all the same set of values. And interestingly enough, I was also working for an artist at the time when I first started dancing. And I had to perform naked. And all these like old men were coming, like sitting there for like the whole day with their like hands in their pockets. Oh, really? And I was just like, you know what? Like, no one was kind of protecting us from that.

And it was like, I just kind of thought this is all the same thing this is looking at art but it's not really it's exactly the same as what happens in the club and it's being consumed in a bit more of a a bit more of a disempowering way I thought because I didn't have control over the situation so then yeah I just thought I'm going to do this all the time in the club and earn loads of money and be totally empowered by instead of trying to make it into some like high art like you know inspiring people it's bullshit it's it is what it is basically what what do you think about um stripping being seen as a trade based on men paying to sexually access

women's bodies and it being fundamentally incompatible with sex equality? I mean, again, that's why I started Harpies, because I think there is an imbalance of it that it's so heterosexual and it's so male heterosexual, it's all about that desire. Same as pornography, really. We've only really seen a shift in pornography with ethical porn and porn that's more about women's desire it's the same thing it just needs there just needs to

be more representation and more people need to use those spaces because at the end of the day we're all adults we all like sexual arousal we all like eroticism there's there's not a problem with any of that it is the imbalance to it that it is mostly men that use these spaces. So I kind of half agree to that statement in a way, but I don't think that's a reason to try and shut them down. I would prefer to try and make them more progressive. What about, you know, I mean, people, God, you know, we know wrongly perceive weed being the gateway drug into heroin. You know, do people sometimes look at stripping as the gateway drug

into sort of more extreme, the more extreme side of sex working? Most definitely. I think they think as well that, like, there's loads of girls in there that have been, like, trafficked to something. And it's like, people think that people are, like, you know, being forced into it. And it's not a gateway. It's, like you say, like, weed's a gateway drug.

You'll do what you're going to do. And at the end of the day, people that want to abolish sex work, I just don't think it's a realistic goal. It's just not realistic. It's not going to happen. Do you think it should be... Well, I guess it is legalised, isn't it? What's the word?

It should be regulated. Oh, God. Yeah, regulated. Do you think it should be decriminalised? From what I know, I haven't worked in that part of the industry, but there's a really great book called Revolting Prostitutes by a girl called Juno Mack. I can't think who the other girl is that wrote it.

But they write about full-service sex work and the laws around it. And from that book, I was pretty much convinced that it should be decriminalised. Just for things like, when it's criminalised, like workers can't work together because if you are found in if you're found selling sex to women in one house it's classed as a brothel so that that encourages women to work on their own which obviously then opens them up for more danger because they haven't got someone to look out for them I think there has been some real tragic situations of women you know being

really hurt because of this so that's one reason but there's a few really just so it can be regulated better and the women feel they have a voice so they can go to the police if something goes wrong what comes under the sex sex work uh structure I mean does stripping still considered sex work this is this is a funny one like some people say it is some people say it isn't i mean i think it is of course it is but again it's like when people say sex work or i'm a set people are like it makes people really nervous i think but yeah i think it's all part of it but you know then you could say as well there was a whole there's a whole thing of like that women that go on sugardaddy.com, you know,

and look for an older man to pay a rent and buy her bags and she has sex with them. Sex work, right? Yeah, sex work. I'm going with sex work. I'm having sex at sex work, I'm sure. But yeah, if it's stripping cool, as you said, it could be a sort of borderline performance thing. Yeah. Women should be able to make a choice of what they want

to do and whether that is to do sex work or not as long as it's a educated and autonomous decision it's coming from a decision of power not desperation I don't really see what the problem is and with the idea of objectification for me that's such a funny term because when you're a stripper you you talk to that person you can decide exactly when you work you can decide how much time you want to spend with someone you can decide if you want to walk out the door you know like I am you're autonomous and empowered way more than when I'm standing doing like a hospitality job for seven pounds an hour and I'm told to act this way wear this taking my time yeah all my time and then at the end of it I've got 100 quid in my bank what would I do with that I feel way more objectified in that sense

than I do when I'm doing sex work because it gives me a financial freedom and unfortunately we do live in a capitalist structure, and I need financial freedom. How is it that kind of new wave feminists and men who buy sex are now allies? I don't know if we're allies. I think that's... We're not allies. That's taking it a bit too far.

But I think that, like a lot of things, like race theory and feminism it's it's kind of being propelled into the mainstream media but it's actually quite a nuanced conversation it's like i don't really need some guy being like yeah keep my strip club open that doesn't that doesn't really do much for my cause at all you know we'll do the protesting the women that run those industries and then you know you just come and and use the service I don't need you to be politically shouting for or supporting me we can do that ourselves you know but yeah we're not allies so how's how has things changed during lockdown well um the councils won't give us our licenses

back which is strange because we are the most like social distance space you could possibly get in the whole of the entertainment industry like you have to be two meters away from us um and a lot of the spaces are closing really yeah a lot of space of closing and it's leaving a lot of like a lot of my friends and a lot of the community also with like queer performance as well, because all the nightclubs are shut, just struggling and really worried where we're going to make money from next. Do you think that that means that the movement

is going to be going onto social media? Yeah, there actually has been a really cool strip club called Cyber Tease and they do it online on Zoom and I think they've been doing really well um but the only thing is with like online stuff is they do censor it and eventually they probably will shut it down like on instagram when we were when we were advertising like the club which is completely legal you know it's legal there's a strip club legal but they kept censoring us and shadow banning us isn't that mad when you can actually

go into a you porn yeah i know and see like some pretty extreme yeah it's crazy do you have instagram uh yeah i do do you kind of tie it to your work at all sometimes like I don't I don't ever I wouldn't give my Instagram to like my clients because I wouldn't want them to know where I am all the time not that anything dodgy could happen it's just like you know you wouldn't tell your boss at at Tesco or whatever where you're at every day either would you know it's like a professionalism like a separate thing work and play kind of thing you know it's like a professionalism separate like a separate thing work and play kind of thing you know but that said have you ever had anyone sort of overstepping the mark and going into your instagram i had some guy messaged me the other day and was like i love your

feet can i worship your feet sure and i was quite happy i don't know how he found me but I was quite like okay that's cool um but have I ever had anyone's over set them up I had one guy that used to just like send me letters to the club quite regularly um which was kind of weird because I kind of cut him off because he was just just a little bit too intense with me like i think he was in love with me and i was like okay this needs to stop like i do have a heart like i'm not gonna like you know really uh exploit you when i think you might be catching feelings have you ever fallen for someone never never never never i had actually quite an amazing night once with this girl. She'd come in with her boss,

and I think they were having an affair, and she was quite young, but she was really rich, and she was so attractive, and I really, really fancied her. And he kind of picked up on this and got angry and left. Oh. Yeah. And left, and then she carried on paying for the rest of the evening i love her yeah she's so cool and she was like you know me and you should meet up after this blah blah and

i was like look you're married to a heart surgeon you're gonna have a really great life i think true liberation or true autonomy is when as an adult you can just pick whatever you want to pick as long as you're safe and everyone's consenting you know like surely that's what we're going for like a empathetic society that understands each other's needs and whether they're sexually or not if you had a kid would you let them be a stripper I'd let them do whatever they wanted to do it's got nothing to do with me my job as a parent is to educate that woman or or educate that person and give them the skills to be able to go into any situation and have a great time you know and that's it really and is this is this representative of your own relationship with your family or yes I mean I didn't tell my parents just because I just felt like it's

they don't need to know like they don't need to know but I mean my father knows I get up to all kinds of stuff whether he found out I don't think it would break his heart or anything like that you know it is what he was a nightclub owner so I was bought I was brought up in that industry and he very much encouraged me as a young woman to like go wherever you want to go do whatever you want to do you know don't let anyone tell you can't go anywhere and don't judge anyone they'd take me to gay pride from the age of like seven you know like it was always quite open in that way in my house so would you say there's a little element of shame around it if you don't feel like you can tell your dad not shame just I just don't want him to worry

you know like I don't want him and obviously he's a man he's an old school man he understands men and I think obviously no one wants to think of that it's quite patriarchal again but their little girl yeah in inverted commas as as being in those environments maybe so what do they think you do i don't know what they think i do to be honest they probably know and i don't i don't realize they're actually big followers of our podcast no my sister knows and my sister was like so like she was like cool she was like yeah go for it love it she's like can you get me a job do you think that now um with social media and how we are exposed to so much more and in some

respects we are a bit more forgiving these days do you think that that's maybe the process that we're going towards i think so like you know characters like Cardi B and Amber Rose these women that are very very open about how they got their money yeah I think we are and I think people like Megan Thee Stallion and like her lyrics and this like kind of like yeah this is my body I do what I want with it take his money kind of vibe if he's not providing you with what you need and also sexually if he's not providing with you what you need get him out that I think that's good for women I think it's good I think they're good lessons what what do you think about celebrities like instagrammers like people like Bella Thorne who's now using OnlyFans and taking money from sex workers I think that's so so like

such a privileged standpoint and I don't really like it i have to say i feel it's like she doesn't have to do that and sex workers have built that platform up and now she just kind of rolls in and takes a million pounds yeah she's making millions yes i don't she's the number one i think the number one only fans i don't i don't know if i'm there for that completely just because the stigma the stigma like the the stigma that normal sex workers have to go through, she has bypassed all of that. Arguably, she's made it more accessible and progressed it in another way. True, yeah, maybe.

I just think she saw an opportunity and took it. Which is fair enough. But the fact that she's sort of so famous for, and actually first and foremost her acting, and then now taking it to another level, it makes it, you know, exposes it in a different way. And it maybe... It definitely does.

Well, it takes away from what on one hand, I reckon it does give quite a lot back in the other, you know. And Cardi B. She's on OnlyFans as well, isn't she? Yeah, yeah. But obviously Cardi B like started in the club. Yeah, fair enough. We knew her as a dancer, didn't we?

And she was very... I think there hasn't been she was very i think there hasn't been many women i think there's been lots of stars that have done sex work but there's not many women that have stood up there and been like yes this is who i was in such an unashamed way and like in such a powerful way i think cardi like when i don't know if you watch love and hip-hop but there's a scene where this girl was like shady to her and it was obvious it was because she was a stripper and Cardi was like come on bitch tell me why you don't like me say it say it out loud and was like kind of forcing this girl to be like you're a whore and I'm scared of you yeah I think that's a lovely place to wrap thank you so much for coming on Jeannie

thank you so much for having me thank you for listening to our Spotify original podcast Sex Lies and DM Slides please follow us on Spotify and tell all your mates about it if you enjoyed it

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