Sex, Lies & DM Slides - S1E24: Gizzi & Sydney | Killing Kittens

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

Emma Sayle, founder of Killing Kittens, comes onto the podcast to chat about the abuse she has received for setting up the popular sex club. Thankfully she says attitudes are starting to change. But Sydney and Gizzi want to know why she decided to serve sushi during a sauna orgy.  Sex, Lies and DM Slides is a Spotify Original. This series was produced by Heydon Prowse Productions, edited by Podmonkey with music by Free Seed Films. For Spotify, the executive producers are Rachel Simpson and Alexandra Adey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my name's Gizzy Erskine. And I'm Sydney Lima, and this is Sex, Lies and DM Slides. Where we invite our celebrity friends to dive deep into their DM boxes to see what terrors lurk within. We'll be chatting about online trolls, online dating, perverted proposals and why everyone's so weird on social media. Sex and Lies and DM Slides. This podcast contains adult content,

graphic details of our sex lives, and the filthy contents of our inboxes. You have been warned. to follow your faves? Check out our new player prop tracking with real-time notifications. Or how about more ways to customize your casino page with our new favorite and recently played games tabs? And to top it all off, quick and secure withdrawals. Get more everything with FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600.

Visit connectsontario.ca. I'm going back to university for $0 delivery fee, up to 5% off orders, and 5% Uber cash back on rides. Not whatever you think university is for. Get Uber One for students. With deals this good, everyone wants to be a student. Join for just $4.99 a month. Savings may vary. Eligibility and member terms apply. Welcome back to another episode of Sex, Lies and DM Slides. I'm your host, Sydney Lima. And I am Gizzy Erskine. Sydney, what have you been trying to show me this morning?

Basically, I've been talking to this guy on a dating app who had quite good chat, which is quite Lima. And I am Gizzy Erskine. Sydney, what have you been trying to show me this morning? Basically, I've been talking to this guy on a dating app who like, had quite good chat which is quite rare and I show Gizzy

the profile and he goes, I've been talking to him! I was. To be fair, I was. I've not really

been talking to anyone for a while. This guy. Because I've also, then I looked on his Instagram account, I looked at who was following him. And he's also being followed by a lot of my female friends who are on the same dating app.

So I think he's matched with, like, all of us, like, friendship group. So, um, how are the dating apps going for you? Uh, well, clearly not very well. I just think that there is this problem at the moment. Like, because there's a lot of, we've got a lot of single friends at the moment and I think a lot of people are matching with the same people. I mean, we've got a group, as it is, called No Players on Raya, which is basically making sure that we're not all matching with the same guy.

Yeah, it's really quite a desperate situation. So this weekend there was somebody who had slid into my DMs and I had to ask one of our friends on the No Players on Raya thing about it. And she was like, you cannot go out with this guy. And anyway, then someone else slid into my DMs who was like, oh, you're right. What's that painful? Oh, you're right.

And he was also friends with this other person. And she's like, oh, my God, that's my ex-boyfriend. Oh, God. And he's using her as a way in, going, hey, I'm friends with this person. Oh, my God. So it's funny, isn't it? But do you know what? I think that you're right.

Like, the world has gone bananas. Yeah. Everyone's breaking up with everyone. Yeah. Or Matt getting fucking married. And pregnant. The fucking bastards. And I'm just noticing more and more that people are just like,

it is going to be a bit of a bun fight soon. Yeah. Although it's better to have been a bun fight than maybe it be a bit dry. I don't know. Like, I just, I mean, I think we all have the same type as well. Oh, it's a nightmare. Yeah. Especially on this group.

It's like someone shared a picture of a guy the other day and I'm like, everyone kind of clocked that they'd been matching with him also. Yeah. It's funny,. Yeah, especially on this group. It's like someone shared a picture of a guy the other day and I'm like, everyone kind of clocked that they'd been matching with him also. Yeah. It's funny, isn't it? Because like you and I, it's so interesting. The person you just showed me, that's my aspiration. Yeah, same!

Who I should be going out with. I thought this was the one! Yeah. It's a sort of slightly older, a bit more sort of distinguished gentleman who's got a proper job, probably has some money in the bank. Yeah.

Instead of our usual cruddy broke creatives who have got like real issues so that was the aspiration but unfortunately now we know he's a bit of a tart. Well I don't know if he's a tart, come on he's single, he's on a dating app, he's allowed to talk to girls I know, I know but he can probably see

from our Instagrams that we all know each other I don't, so you do that, this was one of the things I wanted to talk to you about actually because I need to get better at this. What, stalking? Yeah. You're actually really good at it

because what you actually do is if you like someone and they do have the Instagram link, you'll go on the Instagram and you'll see who they know. Yeah, or I will find, because you know on Hinge,

you know you can't actually see the full names of some people, but you can see their jobs. So I'll type in the beginning of their name and then I'll like try and... I locate them you're an absolute genius i'll find their linkedin and then i can find their instagrams this is good this is good but then what do you find

out like do you not have then suddenly have a preempted view on what they're of course that's the problem yeah or you can judge them for their past because you can see all their old photos we're like oh god they went through that phase. Yeah. Why has he still got pictures of sex with her? That's why I just deleted all my Instagram old things. I've, like, rebranded myself. This is, like, who I want to be. So who have we got on today, Sid? So we have Emma Sale, also known as Queen Kitten,

from Killing Kittens, the sex club. I think we've talked about this before. Have you ever been? No. I knew where it was at. I had wanted to go with a guy friend of mine who I was casually sleeping with. I thought it would be quite fun, but I didn't.

Did you? I have. What? I went right at the beginning. It says here that it launched in 2005. I think that I must have been around then. And I thought it was going to be a fetish club as opposed to an actual sex club.

Yeah. And what did I think of it? I didn't do any sexing I'm gonna repeat that because I never want to be heard because they're calling it sexing um I didn't go I didn't fuck anyone there right um I didn't even get involved at all it was more like going to the theater but it was yeah I was a voyeur I kind of feel like that a lot of these places are not so you can have group sex with people necessarily, but it's also to be in a space with people who want to have these things, but not all of them are acting it out.

So you've probably got a lot of people loitering around and not actually getting that involved, which I certainly didn't. I mean, I think the other thing is I'm so used to going to the fetish club, which is slightly different. But that said, I'd be interested to see how that's evolved, particularly because if you think about it,

since then you've had a lot of sort of, I'm going to say mainstream because they're not entirely cool, things like Fifty Shades or whatever come out. And I imagine the interest for something like that has evolved. I want to see what comes up on Google Images about typing kitten kittens. Yeah, let's see what happens. And see what do people wear.

Okay, so yeah, it's like people dressed up as sexy cats. That's the sex party vibe. Anyway, to tell us a little bit more about it, we have Emma Sale, also known as Queen Kitten, from Killing Kittens. Sex and lies and DM slide. What do you say? And slide.

Hi, Emma. Hiya. Can you tell us a little bit about what Killing Kittens is? So it was launched 15 years ago to create a safe space for women to explore their sexuality and not be judged and feel completely in control and so what started as events with a very small kind of online forum has evolved into what is now a tech business that's this kind of we call it the kittens world so it's sort of a social network dating app big education platform with workshops and webinars we launched a chat app last September and then we do have the orgies which is the tip of the iceberg that everyone knows killing kittens for so they're

still there what determines somebody to be a kitten like what sort of people end up at your club that's the thing do you know what people always think it's like really weirding out the crazy um people that um everyone's always pleasantly surprised when they come and go these are just really normal people the main thing is that we don't let single men in to the offline events or we let single men into the online events but it's very it's a bit like bumble in that the women make the first move so they have to do a like before they get like back and at parties the women have to kind of speak first before um men can speak to them and it's it's do you know it's not a certain person it's kind of across all industries ages cultures

ethnicity um I always say that one thing everyone has is the same kind of mindset, which is a slightly hedonistic kind of the world is there to be lived and explored. So it's a real, they're real optimists, the real positive people that just go, right, we've got one life, let's live it and explore. So that's probably the one thing that merges everyone together. I have actually been to one of your parties, but I think it must have been right back at the beginning. Where was your first site? I'm trying to work one of your parties but I think it must have been right back at the beginning. Where was your first site? I'm trying to work out if that's where I would go.

Do you know what? It was Covent Garden and we still use that venue. Which place in Covent Garden? It's a downstairs sleazy sauna type set up. I know exactly. That's exactly the place I went.

Cool. And how's it changed since then or has it still got the same sort of essence? Do you know what? It's still got the same essence. It's just what has changed massively is kind of the openness in women so when we first started it was very much a lot of couples and you might get so you had like 100 people you might get maybe five or six single girls that came along now we might have

an event for 250 people of which 100 are single girls so women's sexuality has massively opened up and it's much more socially acceptable and people now are much more open about telling their friends they've been to kk parties and what happened what they got up to um whereas when we first launched there's no way you told even your best mates that you'd gone to a kk party. So that's been really interesting, watching that shift. Were you a regular sex party goer before you created Killing Kittens? No. And that's, thing is, you know, I can say no and everyone goes, yeah, bollocks. Why would you do that? But no, I wasn't.

It was really weird because actually, I always say that I was like early 20s, very insecure. I was like coming out of bulimia. I had eating issues. I didn't want to be naked in bright light with anyone I kind of had this world in my head of what my alter ego and what I wanted the world to look like and what I thought women should be able to do and just kind of this imaginary world that what I thought was balanced and I wanted to create it and I think that actually made it a lot easier to do and run as a business because I

wasn't tits up in the middle of it literally yeah literally exactly I always joke now like three babies on and I'm early 40s and I couldn't give a crap about being naked in front of anyone what was your first experience then when you were participating in these sex clubs or were you always kind of behind the scenes I've never participated I was always behind the scenes and organizing them um so my first experience seeing it was working in PR and I was helping the PR with a big erotica exhibition and through that I met quite a few people within the sex industry and there were some party setups and they asked me to kind of help them with their PR because it was kind of the time when Ann Summers was hitting the high streets and there was this whole kind of

female sexuality buzz going on um and everyone wanting to be more female friendly and so I was asked by a lot of people in that industry how can we make our brands more female friendly and that made me realize even more that all this industry was run by men with men designing the underwear with men designing the sex toys claiming to be female friendly and that it just got my mind going more and more that actually it needs women saying what women want and not rather than men yeah so walk us through a party what are we expecting to see so you turn up everyone's in no matter what the venue is you turn up it's mass we always have kind of a fizz or cocktail reception so i remember probably when you came to that one there was probably sushi um but we stopped doing the sushi yes no just trays of it and when I think

about it now I'm like what was I thinking I'm like sushi in a really sweaty sauna bar in a sex party exactly there's nothing nice about that picture whatsoever so now we now we have kind of oyster shuckers so oyster mice so it's coming to you I love it

because they're an aphrodisiac so you always have the drinks reception and now we'll have kind of acts and like cabaret acts or burlesque

sort of entertainment and it's just like going to a private like house party but the atmosphere is there and like tense because everyone knows why a lot of people are there and that there will be nakedness and stuff. And then it sort of turns where you get a few people sort of peeling off into a back room.

And then, yeah, and then more and more people will just sort of go off into playrooms, as we call them. And that's when you wander around those rooms and you see all the shagging going on I mean is it very openly sexual by the end of it I mean is there a lot of voyeurism is that is everyone fucking by the end no there's a lot of voyeurism and there's a lot of like the girls that come along they just like dancing around in their underwear because they think that's they're really empowering and free and they're not going to get hit on which is the irony you're in a party like that and um and they just feel really safe so you get a lot of girls who come like that you get a lot of couples who come who don't want to get involved with anyone else they just want to come and have an experience and maybe get it on with each other in the corner of a room or something

so that's why I kind of always reluctant when people go to sex parties is because there are a lot of sex parties out there where you are expected to get naked the minute you walk through the door and that's it and if you don't you're asked to leave and when we've never been like that it's sort of I've always said that kind of sex is kind of the side product it'll happen if people want it to happen but it doesn't need to happen how does that work with the rules from the women uh choosing the boys and if there is a is it unequals? Is there enough dick to go around? Yeah, that's basically what I was trying to ask. Yeah, there's plenty of sausage out there.

There's never going to be a free one, a loose sausage. But also there's a lot of girls that want it. Actually, a lot of the women there are bi-curious or they're bisexual. So there's a hell of a lot of girl-on-girl action that goes on. So I actually say that actually a lot of the time the guys are kind of walking dildos who will be used if the girls want to use them otherwise it's mainly there's a lot of girls that's um so how much does it cost to play with these walking dildos it's a pretty it's a spenny walking dildo it ranges from like £50 for a single girl's ticket up to sort of £350 for a couple's ticket.

It depends where they are. Because the ones we do like out in Venice or Berlin or, you know, the foreign ones or New York are more expensive than the UK ones. But the London ones for couples range from £100 up to like £200 really. So not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things. We just had our toxic male producer in our ear saying, more expensive for men, that's so unfair. Although it's not. In order to come to a party, you have to be members of the Kittens Association

and only women can be a member of the association. So they can then bring a guest, whether that's a guy or a girl. See, it's all fair and love and war Hayden there's always a way so um what was it like getting something like killing kittens to the market and what was that experience and journey like for you um I think I just had it in my brain I was so sure that it was needed and that it was right that it kind of the bigger picture and the bigger mission about it became much more than me if that makes sense and and all the abuse I got and I still get abuse now actually just added the fuel to my fire of like actually this is needed so it was sort of

because my background was PR as well it kind of started how it became about was there was lots of press around it so you know everyone loves the Daily Mail headlines you know I think the first one that came out was poshest swinger in town which my parents loved so I was just very unapologetic it was like this is what I'm doing and I don't get involved and it's business so I think because I was not embarrassed about it or unapologetic about it it was no one could catch you out no one could go haha we've caught you doing these parties where there's sex going on because I was saying there was sex yeah um so and also conviction in the reason behind it as well yeah exactly so it just started like that

and kind of it was word of mouth and media. And, you know, this was kind of when social media was just beginning to start. So, yeah, it was just that old school kind of hustle and out and about and word of mouth. Then the digital world all kicked in. And obviously that's a whole different ballgame. What do your kids think you do? Do they know what you do? Well, the four and two year olds have just learned the word vagina.

And that's as far as their education goes and the six year old in the last year has learned to read at school so he knows my company's called killing kittens now he hasn't asked why so yeah exactly he has we just haven't got to that. Yeah. And actually, because the business is so much bigger now and the education side of it all. But, you know, before COVID, I was starting to do a few bits with school and sex ed. And then we launched this other business called Sister, which is, you know, a network for professional women, helping them out. And they add the community and that. It kind of, it's become a much bigger beast that it's not just actually you know there are sex bodies that are just a really tiny tip of a a big iceberg that's kind of risen out the water now that's much more mainstream than you know it was 15 years ago um and like yeah that's the thing all the school

parents know what i do and no one cares it must be a nice thing because i guess all that does is a testament to the revolution I suppose you've wanted to create it's just out there now and it's fine for most people yeah it's very weird because when I remember when I started I have one boyfriend who you know was like well you're going to give it up because when we have children there's no way you can do that for a living and I was like right you're out and I'd often get asked what would you do you know what will you tell your children you do and I remember back then saying if and when I have children because that's an assumption in itself um I would like to think that society in the world has moved on that it

won't be a big deal and what's lovely now having three kids and 15 years on it's exactly that yeah it's not a big deal and it's just quite nice really after decades of shaky hands caused by debilitating tremors sunnybrook was the only hospital in canada who could provide andy with something special three neurosurgeons two scientists one movement disorders coordinator 58 answered questions two focused ultrasound procedures one specially developed helmet answered questions, two focused ultrasound procedures, one specially developed helmet, thousands of high intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions, and that very same day, two steady hands. From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special. Learn more at sunnybrook.ca slash special. As the world's population grows,

so does the need for resources like potash to support sustainable food production. This is why BHP is building one of the world's most sustainable potash mines in Canada. Essential resources responsibly produced. This is what BHP has committed to Canada. The future is clear. It's happening now at BHP, a future resources company. company to discover how visit bhp.com slash better future do you have any really naughty stories there must be some good ones you're allowed to tell us over the 15 years do you know what there's so much from from walking in and i remember there were three it was fashion week and there were three models with strap-ons all sort of going

for it i thought that's a hell of a lot of noise going on and went into a room and they were all at it with each other and it was one of those Kodak moments that I've always said I don't need porn because there's so much in your head that's just stored in there yeah that's quite hot but then you get the odd funny one that this couple turned up it was in Birmingham actually turned up with a suitcase and then they went into the room and got changed and they came out and they're very sort of into the fetish gear and they came out all sort of leathered up not wearing very much at all she was a touch dog collar but he had clothes pegs all over him um as well and then there was this personal footballer there who got chatting to them and then they disappeared off and came out

and then the football and his missus came out covered in clothes pegs so there's always really furious like i'm up for it so there's you know there's just always funny stories there's just always stuff that happens and we always say any any project that falls on a friday the 13th it does get weird it does get you know so it actually makes a difference the vibe does it definitely stuff weird stuff happens that's so funny yeah have you got any like i mean you just said a professional footballer is there anyone who's outwardly come out as a famous person that says that they go there you know there's been a few people that have been mentioned

they've been there like jared butler and people and they just haven't flinched and gone and whatever yeah let's look at the negative side of running a sex club. Is there anything that you've had to be really like, shit, we've got to be cautious of that or it's changed the way that you run the company because of any bad stuff that's happened? We have to be careful because there is this, we call it buyer's guilt.

Someone might like the idea of it and then they might drink too much and then they go, what have we done? And then suddenly they kind of come out firing going we didn't ask for that people jumped on us and so that we've had a couple of incidents but they've been in venues where actually they're cctv because they're licensed venues um so we've had to you know licensing and stuff and police having to go through but it's very quick to come around and go well no she was they were obviously enjoying it um so you did we have to be on it like that but we do have security we have hostesses there

we have community kittens who are members who kind of wander around so yeah we have to be hot on that side of things we have to obviously be hot on the drug side of things because you do get the odd licensing lot that just turn up it's like running any nightclub well that's gonna be a buzz gubble hasn't it if you suddenly turn up in the ho like running any nightclub. That's got to be a buzz gobble, hasn't it? If you suddenly turn up and the HO are there. One time two policemen did come round in full clubber and two girls were walking up the stairs, not wearing anything but heels

and they thought the policemen were strippers. So they had them pinned to the wall up the stairs. And I had to go, no, they're real policemen. They look terrified. Those policemen are probably still living off that story. Yeah, I bet so um what are the rules at your parties are there rules other than as you've kind of said yeah I mean the main rule across everything whether it's online or offline is that women make the first move so men are at the party sort of

have to you know they have to wait for the girls to come and talk to them but most every man in the event has come there with a woman anyway so it's not like you'll have a lone man just sort of standing there on his own he would have come with a woman anyway and that's the rule really and it's it's it i mean when i say vanilla sex is it vanilla sex or is it fetishy stuff as well no it is pretty vanilla it really is but at some of the bigger parties we do have like dungeon rooms and within the last few years people have got more and more interested in that the kind of entry sort of bdsm so we'll have like a house dominatrix who's just sort of showing people kind of the basics of how to do stuff and then we've we've um added like a sibian machine to like the new york and london party so i don't know if you know what a machine is. Isn't that, what is it?

Oh, no, I don't know. What is it? It looks a bit like a saddle, like a horse saddle with a dildo stuck in the middle of the saddle. So you just, you sit on it and then it moves and it vibrates. And sometimes you get two girls on it and they're sort of a double Sibian. So they're kind of scissoring each other on this machine.

So that is really popular. Is there a cue for it? Yeah. To be honest, it's very vanilla, really, other than that kind of slightly sort of Dungeness element. Could you be considered like a gateway drug into the more extreme fetish clubs? Yeah, get tied up and get hooked and want to go down that but also a lot i mean a lot of we do do a lot of workshops that are kind of rote play and

the beginner's guide to bdsm so we do a lot of the workshops and webinars we do are slightly in the kink entry point so kind of that it's a good kind of stepping stone to then look to see if you enjoy it and want to do more and yeah we found them especially in the last year of everyone being sort of locked down together a lot of couples are wanting to kind of explore a bit more because they're just bored so they're looking to see what they can do so our workshops have been like selling out every week which is great what's the etiquette when approaching a person or a couple for a gangbang at one of your clubs interesting i think what you'll get in that is is you'll get a group of couples all chatting to each other with some girls and they just decide to kind of go into a room together and there'll be a big group at it but again it'll be the girls

leading that one what's it like cleaning up after the party do you know i used to do that at the beginning the good old days the marigold days um yeah that not not fun not fun at all because you had a lot of time at the beginning when we were hiring sort of apartments on the slides like thing we had to leave them spotless and it was us doing the cleaning now though we use big venues that you hire the venue and they have their own teams and cleaner teams and stuff so I no longer have to move around picking up condoms in the early days when if you were hiring kind of houses essentially uh what would happen if the owners found out they'd been used for sex parties

sometimes they find out but it's a couple of them found out and said they've never seen they've never basically had any it left so spotless um so yeah so they weren't really you know i think we never really had any shits on that level um or people really complaining and then actually the more we went along actually the more people offered us venues so now we get offered a lot of venues so everyone knows um what we're doing plus for insurance now it's got so boring now it's got so boring like corporate and like we've got to have insurance and um yeah so for all the venues we use they know what we're doing and then we're totally covered it's quite an interesting thing you know like for example i'm a chef and i have to go to restaurants constantly to just keep up with what's going on and seeing the trends and stuff like that do you as part of your job having to go around the world to some of these extraordinary

places that are popping up all over the place no um i go out to new york a lot but that's because we've got we're massively growing out there so we're doing monthly events out there and we were launching the education side out there but it's a tricky one because we don't have any proper competitors if that makes sense. There are the old school kind of sex parties. And as you said, most of them are run by what we call shaggers. So people in the scene, a lot of them are run by men and they are to have sex. We're, you know, the aim of us and our mission is totally different.

It's sort of to normalize the conversation around sex and for women to be able to, you know, to be equality based in the bedroom on that front. So there aren't really events you could go to to check out what's going on, what we do do. We're very kind of on it of what is going on in the sex education side of things. But most of that's online. So we know who the big sex educators are in New York and around the world or the big YouTubers. So we're kind of we've got an amazing tech team and SEO team so we constantly know what are the most sort of searched terms every month in the sex world what are they well when we looked at this beginning of last year um because we're looking at stuff in which times that were like for new workshops and things what is pegging was massive was a question everyone so we decided to launch pegging workshops which

sell out squirting workshops as well so um yeah that's where we are ahead of the game we're constantly seeing what people are searching for i'm actually just searching what pegging is she was like don't tell her. Do you know what? When they were talking about it in the office, I went, what is it with the, like, sticking clothes pegs on your nipples and stuff? And the girls in the office looked at me and went, that's not pegging. I was like, what?

That's pegging in my head. So I had to Google it as well. Can you show me a picture? So basically pegging is a sexual practice in which women perform anal sex on a man, penetrating his anus with a strap-on dildo. Yeah. Just, we want to jump on to talk about your app now and all the online stuff that you've managed to do during the pandemic. I mean, this is brilliantly named Orgy in Your Pocket.

Do you want to tell us about it? So the app, we've actually spent the last four years building all this new tech that, by coincidence, which is perfect timing and save the business um was all launching last summer and last year and beginning of this year so it's kind of one of those kind of sliding doors things of timing and fate and the audio in the pocket is a chat app so imagine whatsapp or facebook messenger so the new the platform we launched in the summer is about like facebook it's like a social massive social network with your feeds and you can post pictures and have friends and that kind of thing and brands can have pages and push out across your feed exactly the same way facebook works and then in september we launched the chat app to go with it so like facebook messenger it's like a more advanced whatsapp so you can have individual messages you can create your own chat groups you can join the

official kk chat groups where we have our community kittens in those chat groups answering all the questions and stuff and we have like sort of up to 100 150 people in all those groups and we've got ones for single girls single men couples older people people we have kink groups so that's kind of yeah the people more into the kink side of things so yes that's what the app is so the orgy in the pocket is kind of you can join a group chat which gets filthy so there's been a bit of a hoo-ha around uh your app though hasn't it it received 170 000 from the government and the former shadow secretary of state for women and equality sarah champion was a big opposer why was she such a big opposer, do you think?

And should she get into pegging? Do you know what? I would say there are some women that need a good pegging. That thing, there is this real... Feminists fall into kind of two categories. You get the ones that, like me, who think feminism basically is all about choice. And as long as we get to decide what we do and

decide what goes on in our pants then that's that is it if you want to be a stay-at-home mom if you want to be working the city if you want to be a pit girl you know I mean it's our choice and then you get the feminists who basically think that in order to be respected you have to keep your clothes on and not talk about sex and kind of behave a bit like a man in the workplace and you basically have to keep your clothes on um and kind of block that sexuality that we have as women that femininity I've seen it massively um that it's a real two-sided thing and we get a lot of women I get a lot of abuse like on twitter and stuff from other women who just say I'm running a brothel and you know it's all about men shagging the girls and they

just don't get it that women could possibly want to have sex so it's and I think she just doesn't get the bigger picture that's the thing doesn't get what the business is about doesn't want to understand it and she actually petitioned the government to not get the not give us the loan but do you know what it's a business it's a tech business it's education um and the loan we did get we actually had to raise the same amount privately um in order to get that loan so now it's estimated to be worth 15 million uh 60 percent of kirling kitties revenue now comes from online events and sex education workshops so this is the new business has clearly been a success. You know, and also you moved to Zoom sex parties in April as a result of COVID.

So what does the future look like? To be honest, it's not been a sudden thing. It's been 50% of our revenue for five years has been the online side. We've just spent the last four years building all the new stuff, which is a massive part of the business. And the aim was always to turn more of the business online but without losing the offline and we've just you know the offline's been non-existent obviously it's been nearly a year now and i always say to people we're literally going to be the last business back operating in a hint oh no absolutely um whenever people go i've got friends who own bars bars, they're like, oh, we're going to be the last back.

And I'm like, wrong audience, wrong audience. But I'm not worried because I know when we are allowed back, it's going to be so busy, busier than it was before. The offline side will be bigger than it was before. Because everyone's got so randy in lockdown. Yeah, and also you have to look back. You know, you can't, history doesn't lie, and you look back through thousands of years of pandemics and post, like, sort of world wars and stuff,

and what do people do? They just go crazy. Go bananas, I know. And they have sex, like the roaring 20s. So I've got no doubt in my mind, as soon as we're allowed, we will fill parties really quickly have more of them and we only have to look at our membership now and the new members that have signed up and the new members that are coming to the online events and everyone's saying as soon as there's a party

we're in in some ways it's a nice sort of way to trial and error it isn't it you know you can go to an online party so maybe actually explain what an online party looks and feels like a zorgie as they're called yeah a zorgie so it's sort of two hours we have about 100 people so about 50 screens um we have our events girls host it they'll do like icebreaker games they'll do like breakout rooms so people will chat in those rooms we'll have some of our kk cabaret performers we'll do some acts in it and then it's sort of it's just lots of screens with loads of people having sex really or some of them just watching and then they can pin screens or they can just chat privately or they can chat to everyone it's just sort of a two-hour experience it will never replicate the real life offline events but

a big part to us is our community. And we knew right at the beginning that we had to keep going on that side of things, on the event side of things. So, you know, we did our first event the last week of March last year. So the first Friday of the first lockdown, we went straight into doing a Zoom party to see if it worked. And it did work. And we've been doing them every weekend since then.

And we do New York time zones and Australian time zones and some girls only ones and we were already moving all the the education side the workshops into online webinars anyway last January when it had already started so it was easy to flip all of them online so we were just really lucky on that front that we had the online side of our business otherwise we yeah we would have been properly screwed do you think like zorges do you think they kind of are going to replace porn no i think there's always room for porn um it's not going anywhere um and i think we will definitely keep them going because as you said it's sort of we've realized it's a nice sort of stepping stone in and it's only 20 quid you can sit on your sofa you can shut your computer whenever you want you can get to see what kind of people are members

so yeah we're going to keep everything we've got going on we're just going to add the offline ones back in when we're allowed to but porn is there and it's not going anywhere and it's you know it's a multi-billion pound business and that's why one of the big things i push out that sex ed wise is i just think you know porn education needs to be included in sex ed and actually a lot of what we do is actually undoing the damage done by people men and women who watch porn and think that is real life so what we do on the webinar side of things is actually re-educate of what is real when it comes to sex so can we talk about your DMs now? Obviously, the show is Sex, Lies and DM Slides.

We speak to people who access the DMs for positive and for negative. So do you get any weird ones? Do you know, I get loads of DMs. The worst one is LinkedIn, and everyone goes, LinkedIn, that's like a business platform. I'm like, it's amazing how many guys think that they can just, yeah. Oh, my God. What do you think? Maybe I should join LinkedIn. business platform I'm like it's amazing how many guys think that they can just yeah oh my god what have you what do you think maybe I should join LinkedIn I had one I had one today actually

are you the hot milf I'm looking for and this was on LinkedIn this is LinkedIn and I yeah I said I said I'm not I actually said no I'm not I don't get involved and I'm not but I'll take that as a compliment on the mill front thank you he came back he came back going you're welcome um so yeah I'm not one of those people that will be you know unless they get abusive I tend to ignore a lot but I'm not someone that suddenly overreacts and you know gives it the whole oh you shouldn't be saying that to me and I'm not a piece of meat and it's funny in the same way I'm not one of you know if I get wolf whistled at walking past the building site thank you very much thank you

and I've always said the day I don't get wolf whistled at I'll be sobbing I know totally I'm sort of with you me and my friend uh were at home the other day and we're like do you remember when boys used to be able to slap you on the arse? We're not allowed to say that anymore but I remember sitting in shock being sitting here at a completely different age and it's kind of okay in my world but not in hers

Do you have a Killing Kittens Instagram account? There is a KK Instagram account and then I've got my own one so I don't we've got a social media team that do the KK ones that I kind of have access to but the Kk instagram account doesn't really get kind of those sort of dms and stuff it tends to be my personal one that gets more um just other ones you know one like someone yesterday uh yeah asked if I was open to chatting to single men um and another one it's frustrating do you think it's frustrating that the assumption is that you would be because you run a sex club do you know what i don't get angry about it or frustrated

because it's an obvious thought process in the same way like you guys asking you know if i was going to sex parties myself and that's why i launched it it's kind of an obvious assumption yeah so if it's you know if i'm running these events and you know there are a lot of couples who are just sort of having threesomes and foursomes and, you know, other people join in and stuff, then it's sort of the obvious assumption would be that I'm also like that. So I can see why I get asked. It just we just laugh because anyone that knows me knows the setup. I'm like being in suburbia on the river with two dogs and three kids. And yeah. Does your partner receive any messages about killing kittens like does there any kind of he doesn't but what is funny is if he does come to

a kk party so if he's if we're out in town together and there happens to be a kk party and we're out with friends we'll go along because we're just like i'm getting old i like a seat i like to sit and have a drink um so i know that we'll just go to KK and there'll be a sofa that I can sit on and chat to friends also I love all the members and it is funny because when he comes with me he gets properly hit on and we're and as he said it seems to be a challenge by girls at KK to turn my husband yeah so and I don't help him I, I'll walk past him and I'll have two guys talking to him and I'll kind of open it because he's quite shy and he'll open his eyes at me

and I'm like, nope, not helping so yeah, who can turn Emma's husband it is the game well I think that's all we've got time for today thank you so much for coming on the show that was great Emma, thank you so much thanks for having me thank you for listening to our Spotify original podcast sex lies and dm slides please follow us on

Spotify and tell all your mates about it if you enjoyed it and if you have any weird and wonderful sex lies and dm slides stories of your own do slide into our dms at sydney lima and at gizzy erskine no dick pics please. Also follow us on Twitter and Instagram at SexLiesDMSlides. This Spotify original podcast is a Hayden Prowse production edited by Matt and Scott

at PodMonkey. With music by Free Seed Films, our executive producers at Spotify are Rachel Simpson and Alexandra Aidey.