Sex, Lies & DM Slides - S1E25: Gizzi & Sydney | Gok Wan

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

Legendary stylist, presenter and author Gok Wan MBE comes on the show to give Gizzi & Sydney a crash course in how to have body confidence in the age of social media. Gok talks in depth about his own struggles with his weight and confidence and why he’s more confident now at the age of 46 than at any other time in his life. Sex, Lies and DM Slides is a Spotify Original. This series was produced by Heydon Prowse Productions, edited by Podmonkey with music by Free Seed Films. For Spotify, the executive producers are Rachel Simpson and Alexandra Adey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my name's Gizzy Erskine. And I'm Sydney Lima, and this is Sex, Lies and DM Slides. Where we invite our celebrity friends to dive deep into their DM boxes to see what terrors lurk within. We'll be chatting about online trolls, online dating, perverted proposals and why everyone's so weird on social media. Sex and Lies and DM Slides. This podcast contains adult content,

graphic details of our sex lives, and the filthy contents of our inboxes. You have been warned. I'm going back to university for $0 delivery fee, up to 5% off orders, and 5% Uber cash back on rides. Not whatever you think university is for.

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Visit connectsontario.ca. Hi, and welcome back to Sex Slides and DM Slides. I'm Gizzy Erskine. And I'm Sydney Lima. So, Syd. Yeah. Today's an exciting one. We've got Gok Kwanom.

Yes. And one of the things I want to get out of Gok is to talk about body positivity in this movement. And we've been away together quite a few times. We have. One of the things that I think is very, very sweet about you is that you are really a beautiful girl who is hugely confident and takes these really cute pictures. the second it talks about getting a body shot you're like you go like quite coy and shy don't you whereas i on the other hand love taking a naked selfie and uh you're not enjoying this no basically so when we were last away um she kind of just started rubbing off on me. No, not physically.

And then by the end of it, I was like, I sent this video to our toxic male producer, actually. He was one of the recipients. I mean, the fact was she managed to smash the sexiest little video I've ever seen. And then we're so proud of ourselves, she sent it to everyone. That was so funny. Gizzy's a master of it. I mean, she'll disappear into her room for a while

and we will never know what's going on there. But the phone's going off for the rest of the day. I assume. There was a point when we were away that you were like, are you wanking or can I come in and get my bikini? Yeah, can I come in? Because the bathroom was between our rooms and I was like, I just don't want like walk outside your door and hear any strange noises or like I don't know if you're facetiming

this person I don't know what's going on so yeah I just had to just double check that I mean it's always one of those things I've always wanted to know with regards to what boys perceive from a selfie like on Instagram for example you can see women body positivity women you've got women of all shapes and sizes now and you know the diversity out there is enormous so you're seeing people in their underwear in every shape size etc and i want to understand that you know boys just like naked bodies don't they what is any naked body i just think they like naked bodies because you do have like so i remember hearing once about this one guy who I think is a musician.

And he'd been heard saying like he only likes girls when it looks like their knickers are literally just falling off their bodies because they're so skinny. I remember you saying that. That's really shocking. Yeah. I actually think that that can be changed though.

When I met my boyfriend who I was with for 10 years, I was skinny then, but he really liked emaciated model girls and then he's just like whoa you've got this bum and it's amazing whoa you've got tits and whoa you've got tiny waist I mean he'd never he'd never experienced it and so I do think that like there's beauty in all sizes do you think it's shifting now that more and more kind of we can see more people of different shapes and sizes it's more common to see them

it's not just skinny models do you think that's shaping men's perception of what's sexy as well? I sort of hope so but I also think I remember hearing something when I was

listening maybe we should pose the question to Hayden because I remember hearing if it's warm and wet you're happy Hayden if it's warm and wet

are you happy or do you need a specific visual to go with it? You need the person around the vagina, it is not just a dismembered vagina. Yeah, it doesn't just have to be warm and wet, it needs a body attached. He's a new age man by all accounts. But visually, you know, you don't mind what a woman's figure is like. I think he does. Have you seen his ex-girlfriends? They're all so skinny.

You've also had, yeah, because I know one of your girlfriends, and she's probably my size. She's voluptuous. Yeah. All right. Well, glad we got to the bottom of that. So I do think that that sort of is a testament that men just love women. And they like women of all shapes and sizes.

And I think that it's important. But I do think confidence plays a huge part in it. So I really want to ask Gok how he would suggest that we did pose. How do we do our sexy posing? Yeah. I can't do it. You've mastered it though, Gigi.

My problem is that you do really well. What? Is that I can't do cute and smiley. I'm just like vamp. No, you've got to do... It's because I've got the big teeth thing. I have to do cute and smiley. No, but you can do sexy as well. I don't know how I do it now. Definitely not like vamp. Oh no, you've got to do, it's because I've got the big teeth thing, like I have to do cute and smiley. No, but you can do sex as well.

I can't remember how I do it now. Definitely not like this. Oh, Rick Bale. So without further ado, here is Gok Wan. Sex and lies and DM slides. What do you say? DM slides. Hi Gawk

Hello love Hello Hello You're gorgeous my darling, how are you doing? We're pretty fantastic, very excited we finally managed to rope you into this I know, I've been avoiding it for a long, long time When I asked you to do this you were just horrified Nope I'm not going to lie, yes horrified, that's true But I asked you to do this, you were just horrified. Nope.

I'm not going to lie. Yes, horrified. That's true. But I'm very pleased to be doing this. You're both very gorgeous. I know you'll look after me. We are going to look after you. We will.

What we thought we could do is use this space to talk about sex and confidence and to talk about your experience. Which is very important. It really is. I mean, let's sort of go back a bit and talk about your own body confidence. Yeah, of course. Absolutely. You've just started running, which I think is an exciting thing. Which is very surprising because I'm just not your running type of person.

My idea of exercise is when Selfridges have got a sale and I'm running around. I mean, that is my perfect type of exercise. Finished by several pints of lager in the pub afterwards. So you run to the pub. I run to the pub. I love socialising. I to the pub. I love socialising. I love going out. I love dancing. Don't get me wrong. That's probably the biggest exercise in my life. But then recently in lockdown, I'll tell you what happened. Last year,

we went into lockdown and I became part of the banana bread brigade. You know, it was the baking, it was the cooking, it was the kind of, you know, drinking too much at home because we were in this state of lockdown that none of us knew. And I thought everyone got the same memo. I thought everyone was doing the same thing. But then when we came out of lockdown, I went out for dinner with the boys and we sat in, you know, this gorgeous gay restaurant in central London and everyone didn't get the same memo as me. They'd been to the gym and they'd been running and they'd been doing Pilates and meditation and I'm sat there like a sweet potato

in glasses and I suddenly thought to myself, okay, this is not happening again, Gok. You're not doing this again in 2021.

You're going to rise like a phoenix from the ashes. And so that's what I've decided to do. So I'm now in my fourth week of running. I'm a bit jealous

because I used to run. Sydney and I used to run. Yeah, I mean, we did well. When we say used to run, I think we did 1.5k. We've been dining out on it ever since. Don't get me wrong. It's hard. It's tough, but I'm actually really loving it. It clears my head. I feel better for doing it. I don't really control my eating anyway or my drinking. I kind of do what I want, but it's given me a really, really clear perspective.

Yeah, I think the important thing is sort of acknowledging the things that are going to be good for your mental health and good for the body and things like that because I think we've been dormant for so bloody long. And that sort of leads me to talk about confidence. One of the things we thought would be really cool because Gok Wan is infamous for making women look good naked and men also.

And Minster did and was talking about taking selfies and naked pictures and all those sorts of things. making women look a good naked. And men, also. And Meenstead did, we were talking about taking selfies and naked pictures and all those sorts of things. And how one does it. Because I'm quite risque with it. It doesn't really bother me. She's non-stop, Gok.

She's non-stop. I'm quite happy with my body and I don't mind people knowing about it. Whereas Sydney, stunning little thing that she is, is a little bit shyer. Well, I just did it like, it's not little thing that she is, is a little bit shy. Well, I just did it like it's not a thing. Yeah, me and Gizzy went away and she was just trying to get me to up my game of sexy photos. But can you offer any advice on how to take these photos?

So these sexy photos, are they for, I'm assuming for yourself, because of course, with How To Look Good Naked for many years, this sexy photo was part of our format you know so we would build our women's confidence up until she felt comfortable enough to number one pose in her underwear in you know in front of a photographer and a crew but then also to then pose naked often using you know pieces of fabric and stuff to cover her modesty and then those pictures would be projected in front of thousands of people on the day but also millions of people when the show went out and so I'm no stranger to this but I think there's two types of those photos.

There's one photo which is for yourself which is the kind of stuff that I'm used to teaching women how to find the confidence for even though it's put into a public arena but then there's obviously a photo that you're sending off to a potential suitor. I think they might be the one. That's actually a really good point, though, because I wonder if that immediately offers something different.

100%. Yeah. Because whenever you do anything which is sexually orientated or whenever you do anything which involves your self-esteem and your body confidence, it has to absolutely primarily be for yourself. Now, you may be, you know, taking a picture for a partner and it's, you know, a little bit sexy or whatever. And, you know, all that stuff is very, very fun. But you have to be comfortable with that picture that you're sending out because you are giving that person a massive part of who you are. And we must never, ever forget that with our bodies. Our bodies are shrines. You know, they're very important things. They hold our souls

and our brains and our hearts and our confidence and how we treat people. Now, they're not just vessels. Do you see what I mean? And so what you're giving out to another person, that's probably the most intimate thing that you can do is to share your entire physicality with someone. Now, whether or not that's captured in a moment and in a photograph or whether it's captured in person, it doesn't matter. You are sharing that part of your body with them. So I think it has to come from a place of self-respect first. Oh, I totally agree. I mean, I think it really worries me. One of the things we've spoken about on this show before,

have you ever seen Euphoria? No. It's a brilliant show. It's a really insightful look at youth culture in America. Right. And it sort of speaks about the fact that so many young people at school are sending naked pictures of themselves to attract the opposite sex. And it's a really worrying thing.

And when I think of my niece, who's sort of 14 years old, and she's, you know, getting to that age. And in this show, some of these kids are that age, you know. And it's sort of indicative of this moment of really understanding of what's attractive to someone else is not just, you know, tits and fanny or a dick, you know, and what shows that sort of uber confidence and what people are really going to be genuinely attracted to.

And learning that could be an invaluable lesson for the young. I think so. And, you know, it's horrifying to hear that kids feel that they maybe don't have to, but maybe feel that they want to. That worries me because also I've got nieces that are young and lots and lots of got children in my life and stuff and I worry about that but you know technology has changed how we interact now you know and I've spoken about this a lot on TV shows that I've made talking about how social media and how we

communicate now is completely different to when I was younger I mean I'm 190 years old you know we didn't have mobile phones we didn't even have computers at school when I was at school. And so none of that stuff existed. Whereas now the communication that we've got between ourselves and the rest of the world is absolutely 24-7 and immediate. And also it's why it's really hard to police that information because you can't have somebody sat just watching what, you know, your children or what other people are sending in or out and it's very very difficult it absolutely terrifies me technology for me is a massive fear one of the things that was really interesting was the girl in the show

sort of says do not take this away from me this is my currency my parents will never understand what they're removing from me if they remove my phone. How old is she? She's about 17. I think they're all about 15, 16. Yeah, yeah. They're teenagers, fuck knows. They're young, too young. But, you know, ultimately, this is what teenagers do now. We won't understand because it wasn't really around for us

when we were young. You know, I guess the education's important. Learning to respect yourself is critical. It's also teaching people and us included actually that when we take a photo of ourself and we upload it somewhere whether it's our social media or we send it to somebody whatever that photo no longer belongs to us yeah that photo belongs to the world now yeah you know we've all been caught out like that you know I've posted up pictures of my family for instance family photos and I'm in the moment and if this you know we're not obviously we're not talking about sex photos

now but you know we're in the I'm in the moment where I'm feeling emotional about my family or I'm missing them and I'm posting them up and now as soon as that picture goes out there that then instantly gives any publication the right to to publish that picture now so they have that so they no longer belong to us and so I guess the rule of thumb is, is that you know that whatever you send out there no longer belongs to you. And if that is something that you intend just for that one person to see, there's probably a good chance that that picture

isn't going to stay just with that one person. That's the thing. I think my friend pointed out the other day that I could never really get away with sending a sexy photo to someone because I've got loads of tattoos. So, like, I'd immediately be like, that's Sydney's shitty tramp stamp tattoo.

But then at the same time, I have sent pictures. And if I'm completely honest, I don't care. I'm very aware of what I'm doing. I'm really proud of my body. I'm really confident that if that picture went around,

it wouldn't be ideal. I wouldn't love it. My mum would kick my arse. But then at the same time, I'm not going to pretend that I haven't been sent a dick pic by someone and shown my mate. Oh my God, Gizzy's always shown me dick pics. Jesus Christ.

Shh. The difference is, though, Gizzy, is that you're not that, you know, 14, 15, 16, 17-year-old. Oh, well, no, you're right. Totally. And also the difference is, is that you have this incredible confidence about yourself that you know you're proud of your body and i guess it just goes back to the idea then that if you are going to send something out then you have to know

that there is a chance that that's going to be shared you know either socially that you're talking about a dick pic around you're showing your mates the dick pics have been sent through or whatever that that picture could circulate now if you're you're comfortable with that, then it's your body. You can do what you want with it. It's absolutely fine. But I guess it gets into dangerous territory when we're talking about people under a certain age. Do you see what I mean? It's a completely different conversation, a completely different set of rules.

One of the things we were talking about was, you know, I think a lot of women believe that they want to look like the model. But in your experience, is that what men really want uh no I don't think so actually I think that you know well number one I think that the idea of beauty has evolved so much especially over my lifetime over the last 20 odd years that I've been doing this job that you know beauty acts in trends just like a cut of a jacket or just like a type of interior what we see is beautiful one of the spaces we're in at the moment is that we've got a complete, so diverse, the different bodies that we see and what we're looking at.

And so I guess when you're sending out a picture and you want to be a bit flirty with yourself, and I've always said this to women that we've done the naked photoshoots with, it's got to be about what do you think is attractive? And often it isn't about showing all genitalia. it's not always about being heavily made up with loads of hair and loads of makeup and your nails painted and stuff like that that's quite traditional way of looking at what a woman should like sexy and if you go back to those kind of pin-up pictures of the 1950s or you go back to the you know slightly racy pictures the 1970s it was always in a certain ilk it looked a

certain way whereas things have evolved now and I think that actually sexy photos now can often be about what you're portraying in that picture so it's the narrative it could be you know the expression that you're putting which sounds a little bit vanilla and mild but actually it's really true you don't always have to take all your clothes off and so it's about the projection that you're giving off to those other people and all of that is about how you feel in that split second when that photograph is taken. And, you know, and I've done photo shoots

where I felt more comfortable in front of a camera one day than I have another day. In those days that I feel comfortable in front of that camera, I much prefer those pictures. I look more like me. I look more like I'm telling a story. Now, they may not be overtly sexy. I may not have all my bits out,

but because I look more confident, I am definitely sexier and I am definitely more attractive, I would say. Do you have any tips for feeling confident in the bedroom? I think having an honest relationship with your body is really important. If you're going to share your physicality, share your body with another person, you have to be as comfortable as you possibly can with who you are. And I think that that starts way before you get to the bedroom, way before you get to be with your partner. And so it's things like having an honest relationship with your mirror. It's like actually, you know, I do a live show called One Size Fits All. And I talk a lot about this saying, you know, when is the last time

that you took off all your clothes and stood in the mirror for any length of time and actually analysed your body? Our bodies change constantly as we get older or, you know, we go through different changes in our lives and stuff like that. And so it's having a really honest relationship with that vision that comes back at you.

Something happens weirdly with mirrors because you can look in the mirror on a Monday and think, okay, that's all right. And then the following day, the Tuesday, because of what you might have had an argument with someone, you may not be feeling great, you may have not had enough sleep. But then when you look in the mirror, your body hasn't changed at all. But the information, when it leaves that reflection and gets back into your brain, is a completely different messaging, where you probably don't really enjoy or accept what you're looking at. And so it's purely a state of mind. And so it's about having that

honest relationship. And it's not about, and I always say, you know, loving your body isn't waking up one day and loving it. It's about accepting your body for however it's evolved or however it looks and just understand that, you know, and it sounds like a cliche, but every single body is completely different and completely unique. And it's a uniqueness, which is sexy. Absolutely. Which is a beautiful and absolutely gorgeous. So I think that's where it starts just there. And then moving on from that, it's things like bathing. And it sounds absolutely insane now. But, you know, when we wash, we have a perfect opportunity to get to know our bodies. And so instead of rushing through that process of showering or having a bath or whatever

spend some time understanding how your arms feel and it sounds absolutely nuts but honestly it does work and so when you know your body when you're about to share that with somebody else it can become so much more intimate and it can become so much more powerful because you know what you're delivering you know you're going to end up knowing what you want as well and actually being able to ask for what you want because you're going to be aware of it. 100%. Yeah, you know, and confidence is absolutely key. It is all about the confidence.

And this comes from somebody who was 21 stone that couldn't look in the mirror, couldn't accept his reflection, you know, was so self-deprecating that every single conversation went back to taking the piss out of himself, actively being aggressive about the way that I looked to the point where I, you know, I didn't think there was ever going to be in a moment in my life where I could confidently share my body

with somebody else. So this comes from a place of research. This isn't just willy nilly. This is years and years of development and practice and hard work that goes into saying these things, unless you truly can look at yourself and say do you know what fuck it however my body has turned out I trust my mind I trust my conversation I trust my ethics I trust my morals I trust how I treat other people and therefore once I've got that trust in myself everything else will follow and this is I'm giving you my body but more than that my body is two percent about what we're about to do but 98 is in my brain forget to know that fucker and then we're going to have really good sex do you have advice because you have you know gone through a lot of um really

shit emotional stuff from being what you would have considered heavy to all the way through to diagnosed with anorexia in your 20s what did that that look like for you as a young man? Oh my god, it was really difficult. I mean, it was such an emotional roller coaster. And I've spoken about this really publicly, because I feel that I've been given a real gift, and that sounds bonkers. But the idea that I could go through so much with my physicality, the idea that I can probably share it now and help you know a few people to try and understand how they feel but it was tough and I'm not ever going to lie about that you know from being very very young and being bullied for being fat and called every single name under the sun and you know went through all of that for years and years to go into the opposite side of that where I became almost

the aggressor became the very powerful one the very loud one you know the troublemaker to keep all the bullies away from me and you know know, keep them on side, all the way through to then growing in size, so much to being, you know, without question morbidly obese, but actually being the only person that was kind of all right with that. I was okay with my body because I trusted what was in my mind, and I trusted what was in my heart, but then waking up one day and being betrayed by those thoughts, because then thinking oh actually I'm never really going to be successful or happy or loved or found sexy unless I looked like everyone around me and then crash dieting and then falling into the darkest place of anorexia

awful and living with it and still living with it now without question but living in that dark place for you know many many years and it's been very very traumatic but you know I don't regret any of it at all and that comes from an older voice now but then there's no way that I could do my job if I hadn't felt all of those things there's no way that I could have this conversation with you if I'd not felt all those things there's no way that I could feel the happiness that I feel right now in my life had I not gone through all of those things. And so whereas I would never, ever want anyone to go through what I did with my body and all of the mental health stuff that I went through, I am also really, really grateful that I have an opinion about stuff and I have a strength that's come out of a lot of darkness and a lot of sadness. What tools have you found that have helped you? It's a new day. How can you make the

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thousands of high intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions. And that very same day, two steady hands. From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special. Learn more at sunnybrook.ca slash special. Acceptance. I have had to really learn to trust myself. I've got huge trust issues anyway with everything, whether that's friends or work or relationships or anything else. Because I suppose the young, I always refer to him as the young fat gok.

As the young fat gok would never believe that anyone would like you, would never believe that anyone would find you attractive and so I just believed that the world was my enemy and as I've got older I've had to learn to trust that I'm actually all right, I'm quite a decent person, I do good stuff, I look after people and you know I'm quite good at my job, dare I say it, you know all those things and I guess it's that trust, that trust in yourself and building on that and as the older I've got the more confident I've got with that so you can put me in a room now full of people where I haven't either got to become a wallflower which is what I probably did at the very early days or become so loud and obnoxious that people hated me

because I was trying to cover up for the insecurities I had you see what I mean yeah it's about trust it's about trusting myself and trusting that I'm allowed to be liked, I'm allowed to be loved, I'm allowed for people to find attractive. If they want to take me for a drink or for dinner, thank you very much. That actually is quite possible. So that's probably the biggest transition in my life.

And I'm still working on that. At the age of 47, almost, I still work on that every single day. I totally empathise. There's a sort of thing that people are you know when you become defined by something and it sort of becomes you and I read this brilliant quote the other week and it says if you can talk brilliantly about problem it can create a consoling illusion that it has been mastered and I just thought that was really

poignant because I just think god the amount of times that I've like used all of the stuff that I believe people see me as, as a sort of defence mechanism. And now it's become me. And actually, you're so much more than that. And it's having to bash down those barriers that you've got in the constructs of your brain that suddenly can bring out that confidence. And this sounds like a really serious conversation, which makes me quite nervous and makes me want to laugh. But we've also chosen completely the wrong fucking industry to work in. I mean. All of these things. And so sometimes I do have to take a little step back and go, are you fucking insane?

What have you done? You know, you are this person that desperately wants to be liked and desperately wants to do well and desperately wants to be successful for all the reasons why people told you when you were younger, you were never going to be any of those. And then you decide to go into an industry where every single day you face that, every single day someone has an opinion about you or every single day someone tells you the truth that you don't want to hear or every single day somebody's looking to have a little bit of a pop at you. you know we do that and you know as we get older I love being 46 almost 47 in fact I'm so proud of my age I put a year on extra every single year I'm just desperate to be older and wiser and desperate to be grown up I mean I really do embrace my age and love it

and because what comes with that is a massive sense of confidence and a brilliant sense of self-awareness where I don't care as much any longer. And it's really, really liberating. It is like breathing in fresh air to suddenly go, actually, as long as I do my best, that is enough. I don't need to do any more than that. And there's no way you could have told baby fat Gok that before. He would have just laughed at you.

But as you get older, you kind of realise that. And that's to do with sexuality and that's to do with confidence and all that kind of stuff, you know, in the bedroom, out of the bedroom, at work, with friends, whatever. When you start becoming that person, I think that you do genuinely deliver far more of yourself to the world. And that's a real gift. And the world should be very grateful for that. What's your relationship like with social media? Do you know what it's quite healthy I mean I go through fits and starts you know I've got a really lovely following I have to say I'm very very lucky I try not to read everything if I'm honest I don't really I open up part of my world I've been far more honest with my world in probably the last couple of years, actually, than I've ever been before. I'm not a secretive person,

but I do believe that there's parts of my world that's for me and my mates and for me and my family. And I don't have to, just because I'm on television and just because, you know, I have a public profile, that I have to deliver on that every single day. Saying that, the last couple of years, I've become a little bit more confident to show the inside of my home, for instance.

You know, my personal taste. Bloody lovely home that it is as well. Oh, you're very kind. So I've got more confident with it. But, you know, a lot of the stuff that I've made and I've spoken to the women that I help, the first thing they'll talk to me about is social media, about how they aspire to look a certain way. Or they're fed up, you know, it's inspiration sites. You know, lots of dangerous things that happen on the World Wide Web or out there in social media. And I guess that what I've done over the

years is I've tried to change my social media into a way of helping people, more than it being about gossip or more than it being about just showing off what I'm having for my dinner. And don't get me wrong, I love putting a food shot up, but what I try and do is use social media in a really positive way. But I'm quite lucky because I've worked on so many TV shows now where we have really looked at what is the role of social media. Well, that was what I was going to ask, was how do you feel that Look Good Naked

would have changed in the era of social media? So odd, you should say that, because last year we got commissioned the reboot of How To Look Good Naked, and I was undenialed about whether i should make this program again because it was so iconic in its time and i do truly believe that the show not me the show changed millions of people's lives you know i think it was on 138 countries around the world at its peak and so it had this huge impact on people's lives and then when the producers came to me last year and said would you make the reboot of it i had to really think about whether number one was the messaging

right still. Number two, was it still needed? And number three, how the hell are we going to do it now that we live in such a, what I call a shop window lifestyle, where everything that we've got is on display and each one of our shop windows would be a Twitter or an Instagram or a Facebook or a Pinterest, you know, our entire worlds are open now. And so we had to completely change our approach to making the programme to ensure that the messaging was correct, but then with a completely different requirement. And that requirement came from the fact that we live our lives online now. And so talking to the contributors last year, the women that I was helping, about getting them to a state of being more confident with their bodies for whatever journey they were going through I would say 98% of it went back to being social media because they were comparing themselves to other women they were

looking at other people's lifestyles and I'm not just talking bodies some of the women that I've worked with have said as a woman I sometimes even comparing myself to somebody's picture when it looks like their life is so perfect that they look a certain way when they pick up the kids from school or they're you know I just hate myself for it because I'm just not ever going to be that person in answer to your question it was very very difficult but we did find a way of doing it but it does make me quite angry about social media the fact that it's really hard to police it it's quite a dangerous thing at times especially when somebody is quite vulnerable and their self-esteem is quite low. Years and years and years ago, I remember one of the first interviews that I ever got asked was from a journalist from one of the tabloids saying

to me, do you sit on the tube and do you look around you and think what you would do different with all of the women's clothing on the tube? And I said, no, I said, because that's not my job. You know, this isn't a gimmick that I do. I. I've been a stylist since I was, you know, in my early teens, way before I was on TV. I didn't hit TV until I was 30. And so I've dressed singers, models, everyday real people, I've dressed everyone. And I've only ever done that when they've come to me

and asked me to dress them. I've never gone up to somebody and said, oh, excuse me, love, sorry. I think if you did this, this, this, this, you'd feel better about yourself. I've got no right to do that. That isn't my job job I don't care if you feel 100 confident in how you look then that is perfect you don't need my help you don't need anyone's help if anything we all need your help

but the stuff that I make you know our contributors write in they apply to be on the show they genuinely want help and like a stylist if I was dressing a singer for a music video or for a red carpet or whatever, that person would come to me and say, what do you think I should do to present myself? And can you get me feeling more confident to stand in that music video or on that red carpet or on that TV show? And my answer would always be, well, let's have a go. Yeah. Let's see what we can come up with. So it's not a traditional way of styling, I guess. And also as well, I do not have the right to say to anybody that what I believe is right is the right thing to do. If we can find that space together, perfect.

If we can't, then you probably don't need me. In some respects, you know, when you look back at that show and you think about the sort of whole body positivity movement that sort of has streamed out of social media, I think it sort of could have been the beginning of that as well you know there's a lot of stuff about social media that we look at as being really negative but actually there's also a load of movements that are coming out I do wonder would we have seen them without what you were achieving on on those shows again

this is something that I've been asked a lot by people. And there's no way that I myself or How To Look Good Naked was the reason we have a body confidence movement. I think we were of the zeitgeist. I think that How To Look Good Naked came along when women genuinely were fed up with being told that they had to have plastic surgery, or they had to lose, you know, so much weight to even consider feeling good about themselves, let alone get a partner and have a successful career and be a bright, strong, independent woman if you don't look a certain way. And so a lot of that messaging was happening for a long time.

And then all of a sudden there was a movement and it wasn't about how to look good naked. We came at the right time. And I think that our messaging was very strong. And I think it reinforced and supported what a lot of people were feeling. And then all of a sudden, we had generations of people watching the show. And so you'd have a grandmother, a mother, a daughter and a granddaughter all watching the same show. And regardless of their age or their geography, where they were in the world, they felt the same thing. And they were looking for somebody to turn around and say, oh, actually, maybe this isn't the way you should be thinking

or feeling about yourself. Maybe there's an alternative to that. And I think that House Like Good Naked was responsible for that. So I think we were definitely part of it. But I agree with you, though. I think that social media can be massively positive and really, really good for society because now we have a voice

and now we have a massive, massive newspaper that we can write our article in and people will read that and so we can get difference of opinions um so i think equally as it can be dangerous it can be really really positive as well you said you had quite a nice following on instagram what kind of messages do you get i've never been asked out which i'm a bit i'm really i'm really shocked i'm'm really surprised. Do you know what? This is the honest truth, right? Every single one of my fucking friends have all had, like, oh, you're really hot. Like, one of my closest friends is an actor, and he's on television all the time.

I mean, he is, like, you know, properly fit. He's really, really gorgeous. But you can just see that he just gets these reams and reams of, hey, how you doing? Where do you hang out? And I literally get will you give my mum a makeover I would say in the realm of Instagram and social media I'm like staff that's what I do and I'm quite happy with that it would be nice to be asked out every now

and again would I go I don't know but it be quite nice. But I can honestly say I have never, ever, ever had anything more than a will you give my mum a makeover message. Do you check your other DM box? I have done before. Yeah, you might find it slightly different. You might find some proposals. Do you know what? I think I'm just fucking petrified about what's going to be in there.

I mean, I imagine if you went through it, you might find something alarming. find alarming well maybe maybe I'll be clicking on a picture I wish I hadn't oh my god it's Gizzy's boobs I'm gonna send you a picture of my tits there we go what tips would you give for sliding into someone's dms I think be precautionary first of all I mean I'm literally an old dad now but I think be a bit careful you know what do you mean? Like check their single first? Yeah, I think that's quite a nice thing to do. I think check their single and available would be nice. You can also tell a lot about somebody from their previous posts, can't you? So you might think, OK, so this person is like fine.

He is or she is hot. And I'm really, really enjoying looking at these pictures. And then all of a sudden you go back like six or seven posts and there they are doing something that they shouldn't be doing that you would never do in your wildest dreams. So I think a little bit of research before you slide in. And I think also as well, don't give out too much information until you know them. I made a TV show called Gox Style Secrets quite a few years ago, which was a dating show, essentially, but it was about, you know, women that were trying to get back onto the dating market. And it was probably at the real peak of online dating. And

there were still some people slightly, you know, snobby about it saying, Oh, well, it's a bit weird meeting somebody online. But you know, we used it as our main device. And I think my strongest bit of information was, before you talk to that that person before you give them everything about them do your research make sure you know them make sure you feel safe and comfortable and also as well hold as much information back while still trying to entice them and to be a bit flirty does it make any sense yeah I think that's really good advice for now as well because everyone's dating on dating apps because no one can go out and meet people no one can go out absolutely but also what happens right now so this is a genuine question for you because we are obviously in lockdown are people genuinely talking to other people and then they're waiting

for their first date what happens with that situation i tell you what i've been nearly single and like if i've been chatting someone i like on app. I will get to know them respectfully. OK. But I'm sorry. Like, there has to come a point where you can do this safely. The BBC, have you read their information about what you need to do? The sex advice for COVID? No. Oh, it's amazing, Gaut. Can I read it to you?

It says, your best sexual partner is yourself. Ding, ding, ding. I'll read you that. To Terry and Tig and Trust published advice in August suggesting people avoid kissing wear face covering

and choose positions that aren't face to face during sex. Your best sexual partner during COVID-19 pandemic is yourself and someone within your household

and you should follow all the government guidelines including hand washing and face coverings. I mean, seriously. Oh my God. So you've got to wear full PPE.

Yeah. Do you know what? There's some parts of the world where people might likeings. I mean, seriously. Oh, my God. So you've got to wear full PPE? Yeah. Do you know what? There's some parts of the world where people might like that. I mean, there's been a lot of COVID porn, I think, that's been sprung up. When I used to go to torture guards and everyone used to wear, like, nurse outfits and PPE, it was just always the thing.

I mean, I'm not dating, and so this whole thing I find very, very odd because if you do meet someone and you really like them, maybe I'm an old romantic, I don't know. But surely the first thing you want to do is, you know, go on dates and kiss and hold hands and do all that kind of thing. So why put yourself through that agony and that pain knowing that you kind of can't do that at the moment safely?

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like I think just, you know, bake something or open a business is what I would truly, truly suggest right now. I think it's so difficult, isn't or open a business is what I would truly, truly suggest right now. I think it's so difficult, isn't it? It's so, so difficult. It is indeed. Oh, God, we've come to the end of our time. Oh, thank you, girls. You know what? You weren't as scary as I thought you were going to be.

We behaved ourselves for you. Listen, stay safe. We've not got long. We'll be out of this. Yeah, I know. And we'll be having loads and loads and loads and loads and loads of fun. Thank you for listening to our Spotify original podcast, Sex Lies and DM Slides. Please follow us on Spotify and tell all your mates about it if you enjoyed it. And if you have any weird and wonderful Sex Lies and DM Slides stories of your own, do slide into our DMs at Sydney Lima and at Gizzy Erskine.

No dick pics, please. Also follow us on Twitter and Instagram at SexLiesDMSlides. This Spotify original podcast is a Hayden Prowse production edited by Matt and Scott at PodMonkey.

With music by Free Seed Films. Our executive producers at Spotify are Rachel Simpson and Alexandra Aidey.