Sex, Lies & DM Slides - S1E5: Gizzi & Sydney | Ruby Wax

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

Legendary broadcaster, best selling author and mental health campaigner, Ruby Wax OBE chats to Sydney and Gizzi about the psychological implications of social media and what it was like to interview some of the most toxic men ever from Donald Trump to OJ Simpson to Bill Cosby.  Sex, Lies and DM Slides is a Spotify Original. This series was produced by Heydon Prowse Productions, edited by Podmonkey with music by Free Seed Films. For Spotify, the executive producers are Rachel Simpson and Alexandra Adey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my name's Gizzy Erskine. And I'm Sydney Lima, and this is Sex, Lies and DM Slides. Where we invite our celebrity friends to dive deep into their DM boxes to see what terrors lurk within. We'll be chatting about online trolls, online dating, perverted proposals and why everyone's so weird on social media. Sex and Lies and DM Slides. This podcast contains adult content, graphic details about sex lives, and the filthy contents of our inboxes.

You have been warned. Hello, I'm Gizzy Erskine. And I'm Sydney Lima. And welcome back to our Spotify original podcast, Sex Lies and... DM Slides. Where we chat about sex and love in the age of social media. Now today we've got on a seriously special guest. Someone who, God, we get to interview maybe the ultimate.

Tell them who it is, Gizzy. It's Ruby Wags. Now Ruby is a comedian. She's a best-selling writer, mental health campaigner and lecturer. She has a Master's in Mindfulness from Oxford, an OBE. I'm going back to university for $0 delivery fee, up to 5% off orders and 5% Uber cash back on rides. Not whatever you think university is for.

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I guess, even with what we're trying to achieve in this, would be something of her style. I mean, she kind of, you know, our heroes. People like John Ronson. I thought you were about to talk about the people she interviewed being our heroes. I don't think Trump's our hero. And OJ Simpson.

We've been watching those interviews all week. Yeah, they're definitely not our heroes. But, you know, the people who we do love, like John Ronson and Louis Theroux, I mean, they, without a shadow of a doubt, took techniques off of this lady. And she also has a book coming out. She does.

She does. So it's called Now for the Good News, To the Future with Love. And it's basically about how to stop living in such a climate of fear and teaching us to turn our attention to the possible and the positive, which I think we need plenty of at the moment, don't we?

Yeah, it sort of summarises how we access the internet as well, which is why we wanted her on. Yeah. So one of the great things about Ruby is that her main sort of, I guess her vocation at the moment is to look at mental health and also how it correlates within social media. And obviously that's really critical for the sort of investigative stuff we're trying to achieve here and you've actually got quite a lot to say about this today I do I do I do I've

basically recently been going through a bit of a breakup which I didn't know I was having a breakup didn't you it was like miscommunication breakup it was okay I'm basically anyway I've got to that point where i'm uh he's blocked me uh he's blocked me he's blocked everyone he knows me and i've basically got this secret instagram account which i've been kind of checking like who he's been following and who's been following him right and then i saw that he was following this like kind of super model i was like that's a bit of yeah i was like where did he meet her it's been locked down Right. And then I saw that he was following this like kind of supermodel. I was like, that's a bit out of, yeah.

I was like, where did he meet her? It's been locked down. And then I had like a huge breakdown and like managed to conjure up this whole story about how they were like having like the best time and all this stuff. And then I had a huge emotional breakdown yesterday. I was going to call you, but you know, I didn't. First time. Yeah, no, I don don't know i kept it to myself and then of course i find out like four hours later after doing all my delving and researching that she actually has a boyfriend so it's fine but it

kind of brought up that whole thing of like how you can create these narratives around people on social media and how it can have like such a negative effect in your head i take the x's anybody who hasn't been through something like that it's part of the process these days of breaking up with someone is actually using your detective skills to try and gauge what's going on with someone's life and god sometimes you absolutely nail it you know detective skills are on point but i'm sure often you're just like fantasizing about these really awful extreme situations. And thank God within what, four hours? I know, four hours. From full circle.

I went to the gym in between those four hours. So I was at the gym and then like thinking about it the whole time. And I had my phone like just like going off in the corner with all my friends with their detective skills. I've just found out. Oh God, so you've got your own little like i've got my little hub and i spoke to this guy who about it because i was like wanted a guy's kind of opinion about when you have breakup and like kind of start following people and does it mean if you're does it mean you're shagging them immediately and he was like it's probably one of those things where when guys break up with people they then go through the people

that follow them on instagram see the hottest girl and then follow them back to like kind of get them to be into them kind of thing oh god that's depressing yeah it's such a yeah anyway anyway our toxic male producer hayden he's just pointing at himself going i do that so hayden have you ever made a fake account so you can follow a girlfriend no he says he's such a liar I don't believe that for one second. But he does follow back any fit girl that follows him, which is just like, apparently it's just an ego boost thing, but I just assume that everyone's fucking then.

What's the terminology where somebody's, like an ex or someone is, keeps popping up into your stories or something and you know that they're watching what you're doing? It's not breadcrumbing, is it? Yeah, it is. No, breadcrumbing is when you basically basically you kind of string someone along by like liking things and then not necessarily like asking you to go out for dinner but just liking things all the time yeah i do do you do that it's called haunting god it is quite haunting so yeah i do you

know what i get the most is where if i start going out with someone i can see someone's ex haunting me oh yeah obviously yeah, yeah, yeah. Because obviously I've checked out the ex. First thing to do. Check out the ex. I don't have a fake Instagram account, but I do do the stalking, and then I tend to do it through

other friends' Instagram accounts. So I can go in, I'm like, I'm having your phone for the next hour and a half. Yeah. This is mine. But I have found out some awful stuff like that. I remember seeing one of my exes in Glastonbury with this girl who looked like SpongeBob SquarePants.

And I was thinking, there's no way. And then towards the end of the weekend, there was definitely one. And it's mad how far you can go with that. I know. Anyway. Anyway. So talking to Ruby was really interesting

because she is probably one of the primary female figures doing this kind of interviewing technique. And she got to interview some of the primary female figures doing this kind of interviewing technique and she got to interview some of the biggest psychopaths in the world sort of trump phil cosby oj simpson and you know these people were challenging and as a woman she really stood up for herself within her femininity which i really respect and now she's got her master's in mindfulness and so she's really sort of pushing towards how social media and mental health sit side by side which is kind of what we spent the most of the time talking about uh yeah gotta say we recorded this in lockdown so there was a few

technical hitches a few uh well her husband pops in at one point trying to help trying to help her rewire her modem i think but. But without further ado, here's Ruby Wax. Sex and lies. DMs. Lies. Hey, Ruby. How are you? Girl, what's the new word beside fine?

I'm sure it starts with an F. Well, I mean, lockdown's quite something. How is yours going? Well, because I run these, you know, I run my Frazzled Cafes twice a day. Yeah. It gives me a reason to get up in the morning. Absolutely. And then I see about 100 people each time talking, and I think, oh God. So you're doing 100 people you're dealing with in Frazzled Cafes? Twice a day. Good grief. Twice a day. So Ruby, what exactly is Frazzled Cafe? Well, we in Frazzled Cafe? Twice a day. Twice a day. So Ruby, what exactly is Frazzled Cafe? Well, we started Frazzled three years ago or something, and they were a genuine cafes in real cafes up and down the country. And they would meet with a facilitator, right? Somebody

holding the meeting and then they meet every two weeks. So they had their little community that had their backs. And now because of this, we go online, but it's extraordinary because a hundred people come on and they get a chance to say what's going on and other people are listening and then they care. And people love that when everybody's really cares about them. And then they break into small groups. So they get to know each other and it just works. And I feel better. It makes me feel better about my life. It's like a therapeutic. No, no, there's no therapy. No, this is just frazzled like you, like me.

And it's like without any bullshit, you can say what's going on. You know, like you with your family. A lot of these people say, oh, I have to put on a mask, like everything's OK. And here they can talk. So Ruby, how do you, because you've been speaking about your own struggles with mental health for a while now. And how do you feel the debate has changed in the past few years?

Well, when I started doing my shows 15 years ago, you know, about why we're frazzled and what I meant by frazzled, I didn't make up that expression. It means when we're getting stressed about stress, when we bump it up, it's not like we're being carpet bombed or you're being mugged. You're imagining it like somebody didn't call you back or I'm not good enough. That's a contemporary illness. And I mean, I could go into why that is, but I'm just telling you it is.

And so when I did that show, it came out that I had a mental illness. So I had to kind of acknowledge it. And then in the second half of that show, I had the audience stand up. Now they weren't mentally ill, but people are frazzled. There's no argument. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much burnout. And they would stand up. And I don't remember a whole audience standing up, but now when I do shows, and even if it's big like a thousand, you have to shut people up because everybody wants to be heard and everybody wants to say, am I okay or am I alone on this? So that's why Frazzle Cafes work online because people want to talk. I mean, you said earlier that you didn't really refer to it as therapy, but it's therapeutic.

I mean, it's obviously a safe space where people can get their sort of feelings and stuff out. Yeah, yeah. But that's not because I'm doing therapy. Yeah. Because they're talking. Therapeutic as opposed to therapy. Therapeutic, yeah.

And Ruby, is it based at all on your own experience with therapy? No. I mean, you know, I had therapy for thousands of years. And I think some therapy is really good to get a story together, right, of what happened to you. But if you keep repeating it, you start believing it. And a memory is like a photocopy. And then you bore people shitless, can I say? At dinner parties going, you know what my mother did? Well, okay, get over it. But you know, it's actually really revolutionary. I mean, you must be one of the first women,

particularly, to have come out and been so open and honest about your mental health. And I suppose since then, there has been a huge influx in how people look at things and perceive things oh you mean am I Christopher Columbus for a mental illness yeah I'm the first person to set shore on the foothills of insanity yeah so um your love life like are we allowed to talk about your love life sure I might go in another room. Can you hold on? Come on, this is exactly the stuff we want. So Ed is your husband? Or he's your partner? Yeah, third husband. Yeah, but the other two, my love life isn't that interesting.

I was wild, but not sexually, which is interesting. Same here, Ruby. Really? I've been the least promiscuous person I know. Hardly slept with anyone. Biggest regret in life,. Me too and nobody ever picked me up. Like maybe I didn't have sex appeal. Nobody ever hit on me. That's bullshit. No I swear to god I've gone back and checked. Some of them said I was scary which I don't buy. Once I hitchhiked

across America on my own then I went to a private airport and hitched a ride to San Francisco, but nobody ever hit on me. I don't believe it. I don't believe it either. But I think there's something about the sort of like vivacious, characterful, clever, intelligent woman that scares the man, I think. Yeah, I'm going to stick with that one. I had to ask Ed to marry me. I said, I can marry you April 15th because I have an opening. But after that, I'm booked completely. And I said, and there's a whole queue of men really interested. And he didn't know that nobody was interested.

I'm taking notes, by the way. We've been watching some of your very iconic interviews quite obsessively over the past few weeks. And you've basically interviewed some of the world's biggest pricks. It's true. I know. I know I did. I mean, I just want, I think we need to reiterate, like some of the big people that you did interview, like OJ Simpson, Bill Cosby, Donald Trump. Yeah, those are some big pricks. All of which have ended up in jail, except one of them

ended up the president. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But I mean, I did interviews over 25 years, so some of them were gorgeous. And then a prick would come along, you know, I mean, I did interviews over 25 years, so some of them were gorgeous. And then a prick would come along. You know, I mean, the chances are pretty high they're going to come along. So I'm lucky I only had it down to a few. But O.J. was actually friendlier than Trump. He was open. But I mean, he was a psychopath. Yeah. He seemed pretty mad when he was speaking in the car. Yeah. Wasn't he talking about spunking on sheets in prison or something yeah and Scientology and that Ron

Hubbard said you don't even have to do it because you're already Jesus you know there were indications that he wasn't right in the head there were indications and also you know teasing me and saying that's where the knife is but it was overt overt craziness. When I got with Trump, it was like a wild animal and I didn't know how to handle it. He got me. I was nervous. So it wasn't a great interview. Whereas OJ, I felt right at home with. I saw something you did on your own YouTube channel

and it was a reviewing of your interview you did with Madonna. And you said that was a very, very bad interview for you and you pulled up on quite a few of what you deemed mistakes. Do you find it harder interviewing women at all? No, I find it easier interviewing women, way easier. But with her, I couldn't crack it. You know, some women are more like men and some men are more like women.

It's not just, you know, who's got what genitals. It was tricky. It was not worth an interview. I mean, I was going to say, like, that must have been pre-learning about sort of actually going into mental health as a next sort of career. It must have been a real great study looking at the psychopaths and sociopaths of the world. Well, there was only three.

You know, there was Trump, OJ, and who was the last person? Bill Cosby. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a huge prank. Yeah. So I didn't have that many sociopaths. But you actually got to interview Cosby

before any of the rape allegations came out. How was he? He was an asshole. Is this a bad show to say this on? No, it's the best. This is what we call him. Yeah, no, I got there and he, you know, he was just one of those bullies.

And everybody didn't like him. He was a bully. He wasn't this jovial, you know, sweetness and light. So I knew he was nuts. How long did you spend with him? Well, when I did interview shows, I'd like to spend days with people. So with OJ, we spent three days. With Trump, one, because he threw me out of the plane.

So it was long. Explain that to the people who might not have seen that. What happened? Oh, I got on his private jet and he said that he wanted to be president of the United States. And I laughed. Oh, fuck. And so he said, I want her off the plane. So he threw me and my crew off this plane.

And we ended up in Arkansas. So I made a whole film about what Arkansas was like, which is a great film. And then we found him again. We found him at the end. And then he liked me. So it's like you passed a test with him almost and he then took to you. No, there was a moment we had alone in a car and he told me what he thought about women. And I didn't't I could be as crude as he was he thought I was one of the guys oh how he likes to uh you know what he likes to do with him he was just being a guy a gross guy yeah I've heard it before it was nothing original you've studied psychology uh what do you make of someone like Trump through your own professional assessment

well I it's not mine everybody with half a brain knows like he's assessment? Well, it's not mine. Everybody with half a brain knows, like, he's a narcissist, you know? It's like if somebody had one leg, you'd know they were an amputee. It's not a secret. So his mental state is as obvious as having no legs. But everybody ignores the elephant in the White House. I'm just curious as to if he's got sort of how orange he was and how his hairline was. Oh, his hair was like, it wasn't roadkill then. It was, you know, Mr. Whippy. Like you take

a nose hair and wind it around your head. That's what I used to say. And that's what he had, one hair. You've interviewed your fair share of narcissists and psychopaths, but have you ever dated any? No, I don't think so. I dated a lot of gay guys. So they're not narcissists. They're just fun. One guy I think maybe was, but he was French. So, you know, who knows? Ruby, I read that through your parents, you kind of came to connect sex with spite when you were growing up. Oh, I didn't know that. Did you not say that? Did I write that? Yeah.

I wrote, the book is called How Do You Want Me? And there is a chapter on sex. So How Do You Want Me is my autobiography. And that's about my parents and about sex and about, you know, the whole thing. And Carrie Fisher edited it. And she said at the time that my parents were almost as crazy as her. So that's called How Do You Want Me? I love that you and Carrie Fisher were crazy as her so that's called how do you want me

i love that you and carrie as you were friends yeah that bonded for 30 years how did you guys meet can i ask i interviewed her and then we fell in love um so she said that you had the weirdest family she ever no no no hers was weirder but mine were up there really yeah that Gosh. Yeah, that was kind of a compliment, in a way. I mean, are you empathetic towards your family? Because your parents actually escaped Nazi Germany, right? Yeah, I am now. Yeah.

You know, because they showed me what happened, but they never mentioned it. And I say at the end, if they had said any of this to me, I would have forgiven them. Right. So, I mean, like, essentially, do you think that they had, they had undiagnosed PTSD or? Oh Oh no, they had undiagnosed everything. Prime Big Deal Days is coming October 8th and 9th with exclusive savings just for Prime members.

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Subscribe today. You got this. But nothing is diagnosed in those days. No, I mean, listen, I can empathize. My father would be 100 now, and he was bipolar, or what was known as manic depressive. And, you know, both my sister and I have afflictionsions and I've been medicated since I was a teenager and then you know my evolution of that has you know informed a series of issues yeah but actually that's it it's having known I mean he wouldn't even acknowledge it we had a family doctor who told me when I got diagnosed but my father had died by that stage but it kind

of suddenly meant the clarity you got from that information is so huge yeah nobody ever told me that something was wrong with them and that's why it's so devastated because you're an only child so you assume everybody's parents are like that you know I thought that's normal that's the dangerous bit yeah yeah it really is and also as a kid you think it's your fault So that's where you start absorbing their illness, is that you don't want the people that feed you to be sick. So that's how a kid catches it, is that he or she says, oh, it must be me, and then you become ill.

That's how it's passed. If you have the genes. If you don't have the genes, you're fine. So is it genetic then? Nobody knows. It's genes and experience. Like, if you don't have the genes for it, you're not going to it genetic then nobody knows it's genes and experience like if you don't have the genes for it you're not going to get it no matter what so you can't just say somebody was traumatized because if they don't have the genes for it they won't be but if you do have the genes

and then you have a bad experience chances are high where is your sort of psychological do you have your own sort of way of looking at how this is or do you kind of look at it as more Freudian? No, I do mindfulness. Will you completely explain mindfulness in an intellectual way? Completely. We hear the word mindfulness sort of flitted about so often. I mean, what does it mean in the intellectual sense? Well, I liked it and I went to learn about it at Oxford because of the science. But I like the fact that you're taking the brain

that's bubbling away with high-stress hormones and you're learning to, if you focus on a sense, any of your senses, you can't have that gabbling brain and sensing something at the same time. So you're training your brain to pull focus to a sense, okay? And then it flips back up to the gabbling and down. And the more you do that, you exercise a part of your brain that helps you pay attention.

So when the shit hits the storm, you're able to focus easier. It's like going to the gym and doing weights. I may lose my temper, but I can get my stress hormone down fast because I practice this stuff. It doesn't mean your mind is blank. It's just so when the thoughts come in, like I'm an idiot, everybody knows I'm a failure, they don't have so much sting, but that's by practicing. I've really struggled with mindfulness. It's really been hard to get into it.

Because were you trying to do something? Well, I suffered from quite a lot of panic attacks, and I know that's exactly what I'm meant to be doing, is practicing kind of mindfulness. And I also used to do a lot of meditation. But breaking that kind of cycle and getting back into it is really overwhelming for some reason. If it's not for you, don't do it.

It's like not everybody can do yoga. Your thoughts aren't pleasant. I wake up in the morning, even if you do it for two minutes, and you see literally the shit show, but when you see it, you kind of pull your focus to your breathing or whatever. It'll pull you up into the shit show, but gradually when you're going up and down, you think, wait a minute, if I don't grab on and buy this information that I really am a jerk, the thoughts change every two seconds anyway.

I mean, last night I was lying in bed sort of thinking about this interview and thinking about mindfulness and how I approach this sort of stuff. And I've been sort of a very pro-medication person because I need it for my... I'm a medication person too. Okay so brilliant now the thing that slightly concerns me more and more is the sort of reliance on certain medications that I really would prefer because there are certain things ADHD for example I've managed to come off by using sort of high strength fish oils, for example. And at the moment during lockdown, I'm absolutely like the most ADHD I think I've ever been. And I can't focus on anything. But I've again tried to sort of focus on that mindfulness ideology. And the main reason I want to do it is to bring the chemistry in my body down. And I know that that's the capabilities are like that, but I just really cannot do it is to bring the chemistry in my body down and I know that that's the capabilities are like

that but I just really cannot do it how do I get into that zone it's really frustrating because I want to I don't have to take certain medications well I take medication you if you have a disease you have to take medication yeah I don't know if you know high anxiety needs medication but if you're bipolar you better be on it. Absolutely. Yeah. I know. I mean, I have acute biological anxiety and I'm medicated for that and I'm always going to be on that. That's my medication that I love. But ADHD, being on Ritalin, I've been off it for five years and I'm a much better, more creative, more focused.

And it's a brilliance. I believe ADHD is a gift, but it's also a curse. Yeah. And I'd love to be able to sort of draw myself into that meditative, mindful sense, but I just can't seem to do it. I mean, what can you do? There is nothing.

I mean, you just literally learn to watch what goes on your mind, but when it gets too hectic, you learn to pull it to a sense. But if you can't take it, the idea is not to be cruel to yourself. You know, I mean, I'm watching a storm, then I pull it to an anchor. And that exercise alone buffs up that part of your brain that pulls you to a sense faster. I mean, I'm not explaining it well. What do you mean by the kind of the analogy of the anchor and the storm? Is that when your thoughts get hazy?

No, no. Thoughts are thoughts, okay? They're just nuts. But any time you're focused on a sense, sound, sight, taste, touch, smell, when you do that, you can't be sensing something and thinking at the same time. So you have a moment where the cortisol can come down. If you're eating something and you're really focused on the taste, the thoughts get quieter. Then the thoughts get louder. You eat the, you know, go back to the taste. If you're

drinking coffee, watch the thoughts, bring it back. That's like going to a gym and doing a sit-up, okay? Gradually, gradually, like your arm gets stronger, you get the six-pack, it becomes easier to not let your mind wander so much. People still have crazy thoughts, but they have a different relationship with them. You go, oh, that's just the crazy soundtrack rather than Jesus Christ, I really am crazy. You know, they have people who hear voices and they do mindfulness and they go, yeah, I still have the voices, but they're kind of interesting. know they don't burn you so much but if it's not for you don't do it we actually had to reschedule our interview of you because i had uh one of those

i have this panic attacks where my fingers start trembling and it just starts kind of it gets bigger and bigger until my whole body kind of shakes and then i'm just like in a zone for about an hour and a half kind of thing and i've been having them like more and more over the year but I found it really hard then to use that kind of grounding I know what you're getting at and I just find it really hard to kind of put it into practice when you're in those kind of frenzied panic attacks but you know you'll need like if you go to the gym somebody has to help you in the beginning go listen to headspace is good you know don't listen to the bullshit ones but my professor Mark Williams headspace is good. You know, don't listen to the bullshit ones, but my professor, Mark Williams, Headspace is good.

You know, get the big boys and listen to them. Don't do it on your own. You'll go nuts. I had to go to Oxford. You know, don't sit there and go, oh, now I'm going to listen to my thoughts and now I'm going to breathe. You can't do that.

You've got to go to class. It works for me. It doesn't work for everybody. But, you know, Oxford weren't offering witchcraft, so I thought maybe there's something to it. Would that be the first choice? God, I'd be up for that. Yeah. Yeah. But they aren't teaching it. So you've written a lot about the impact of social media on mental health. And our podcast is kind of based around all these DMs that people send you, these strangers kind of sending unsolicited pictures of their penises, etc.

How do you think social media has affected mental health? I think that, you know, I don't know completely. That's not my area of expertise. But I think when you compare yourself to half the globe, you know, because before you just knew what the neighborhood was up to. But now that you see pictures of somebody, some Swedish model halfway around the world or whatever, or some rich guy with his yacht,

it's shoved in your face what you don't have. And so that stokes up envy, and envy isn't really good for our health. What's your opinion on these people kind of over-sexualizing? See, I've had experience of being sent on my Instagram page a message from a man asking whether I was available to escort, for example. There's a lot of people can send messages to anyone now through these kind of social media apps. Do you think that that must have such an effect on people's mental health

when you're a 14-year-old girl, for example, and you've got an old guy kind of messaging like sexual innuendos and pictures of their dick and stuff. Do you have any thoughts on that? Well, what do you think? What do you think? What do you think? I'm going to say, yeah, that's really good for your health. I think it's great.

Show them what the other half is like. It's really interesting. I was watching a teen drama thing called, oh God, I can't remember what it was called, I think it's great. Show them what the other half is like. It's really interesting. I was watching a teen drama thing called, oh God, I can't remember what it was called, but it was sort of showcasing how we, as the older generation, look at this. And actually, it's used for currency within a lot of young groups of children,

which is awful. I mean, it's absolutely horrific. And obviously, we know better because we're older and more experienced. But these kids are getting really frustrated with how their parents get involved and like make them lose their currency at school because they're not able to be the ones sending the sexy pics to each other, which is extraordinarily messed up. Yeah, I wouldn't know what to do. That's a dilemma. I wouldn't know what to do.

You know, we're caught between two worlds. Like, kids need freedom, but they also have to have boundaries. So, you know, they need both, yeah. Do you ever get people sliding into your DMs? Into my what? I love that. Do you ever find people sliding into your social media channels, like asking private questions?

No, and if you go unfrazzled you can't right it's locked out yeah so no dick pics or anything no dick pics see still still no still nothing this day 450 thank you thank you a whole new world trust me ruby you're not missing out on that okay half the ones who do send them are really not worth looking at yeah yeah so Ruby just basically back to kind of the sex element of everything um what was your understanding of sex growing up because you did speak about it in a book because I read a few interviews as well that you did around it oh in how do you want me I remember but that's my book I'm just plugging I rubbed my Barbie together with Ken. I did that too!

Ken Dunn. Yeah, and thought that was sex. Yeah, that was sex. I used to tie the Muppet with each other. I tied my turtles together, thinking they were going on a date, and killed them both. That's in my book.

Oh, can I just mention my other one, the other book? Of course. Do you mind? Yeah, of course. My other book, which is my primo book called And Now for the Good News, To the Future with Love. That's my great book.

What's the synopsis on this then? For two years before all this, I went around the world looking for who's doing the stuff that's going to make the world unbelievable. You know, like the green shoots. I don't mean some hippie communes. I mean people reinventing capitalism and education, what they're doing in Finland, and how business is going to change, you know, where it's not so much like the boss on top, but, you know, it's fairer, it's better.

And then communities, how people are forming these neighborhoods and places in cities where there is a sense of community, except it's really beautiful. I mean, this isn't alternative. Some of them are gorgeous and some of them are in Africa. There's about 10,000. They're called eco-villages. I'm moving to one. Are you? Whereabouts? Oh, one in America called Ithaca. I'm not going to move there forever, but that's where I was going. So what happens to these eco-villages? Well, people have jobs. They're professors and they have startups. But they have like communal dinners twice a week if you want. And it's zero emissions, by the way. And you can have that community or not.

You know, you have privacy or you don't. And I really like mingling with all generations. People are very cool there. We have to change, you know, how we live. We have to change. There's a chapter on health. I can really, I'm good at distilling the bullshit from what's really interesting and that I think I did it in this book not you know it's not things 100% but I'd use it as a guide for what to do next.

It's an absolute honor to be able to talk to you Ruby and very excited for both of those books. Thank you and thanks for letting me plug them. If today's podcast has brought to light any issues with your mental health or you'd like to speak to somebody, please get in contact with the Samaritans. Their number is 116123. Thank you for listening to our Spotify original podcast, Sex Lies and DM Slides.

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edited by Matt and Scott at Podmonkey. With music by Free Seed Films, our executive producers at Spotify are Rachel Simpson and Alexandra Adie. see films our executive producers at spotify are rachel simpson and alexandra ad