Sex With Emily - Creating The Love You Desire w/ Mark Groves

Episode Date: March 22, 2024

Looking to connect with your partner on a whole new level? Lucky for you, today’s episode with human connection specialist Mark Groves will give you the tools to do just that. Mark uses his emotional translation skills to give accessible relationship and wellness advice to others and shares his relatable ways to be your most authentic self. From discussing a Thanksgiving dinner that changed his life to examining past toxic behavior, Mark and I dive deep into ways to become wiser in love. Get ready to get vulnerable, today’s show gets DEEP! In this episode you’ll learn:  How to break free from codependent relationships Why reflecting on past experiences is the key to better relationships Why we should all be using the word “boner again Show Notes: Pre-order Mark’s new book: LIBERATED LOVE SHOP WITH EMILY! (free shipping on orders over $99) The only sex book you’ll ever need: Smart Sex: How to Boost Your Sex IQ and Own Your Pleasure LELO (use code SEXWITHEMILY for 25% off all products) LELO F1S V3 Want more? Sex With Emily: Home Let’s get social: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | TikTok  Let’s text: Sign Up Here Want me to slide into your inbox? Sign Up Here for sex tips on the regular. See the full show notes at sexwithemily.com.

I wrote an article called Why You Really Can't Get Hard, which is like, what dude writes an article about the time he tried to have a one-night stand and he couldn't get a boner for the first time in his life? You're listening to Sex With Emily. I'm Dr. Emily, and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. My guest today, Mark Groves, is a man who has done the work on himself to give accessible advice to others.

He's a human connection specialist, in other words, an emotional translator. In today's episode, Mark talks about his new book, Liberated Love, Release Codependent Patterns and Create the Love You Desire, that he co-wrote with his wife. We get into how a fateful moment, one Thanksgiving, led to many twists and turns in his life,

how to break free from codependent relationships, and why we should all be using the word boner again. I think you're really going to love today's episode. Are you ready to flex some muscle you've probably been skipping when you go to the gym? No, I'm not talking about your quads. I'm talking about your penis. Please meet BathMate, the world's number one penis pump that's about to become your new best friend with benefits. Now I know what you're thinking, a penis pump, really? Believe me, I thought the same thing. And then research, I learned that BathMate

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Shop now at women's.com slash Emily and use code Emily for 20% off your entire order. That's W-O-M-A-N-E-S-S dot com slash Emily. And use code EMILY at checkout for 20% off. Women ask because aging never looks so good. Today, I get to speak to a guest who I admire so much. Mark Groves is the definition of a person who talks the talk and walks the walk. He's a human connection specialist aka a emotional translator. He helps he will become their

most authentic loving selves in a fun and relatable way through his writing, speaking, and coaching as well as his podcast books and courses. Mark is the founder of Create the Love, an author of the new book Liberated Love about how to release codependent patterns which he wrote with his wife Kylie and you can pre-order it now. He's made his mission to help people through sharing his own personal struggles. He has a no-nonsense way of giving relationship advice with a little bit of tough love and a whole lot of knowledge. But he wasn't always on this path and what I really love about him is his ability to own his own shit and guide the rest of us to do the same. His advice has certainly inspired me to reflect

on my own relationships. And I know it's gonna resonate with you too. Welcome Mark. My God, I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to have you here. That's at a high standard. I better get my poop in a group here. Well, you do.

I mean, honestly, I just remember watching you through the pandemic and you really just watching your videos and your messaging and it just so resonated with so many people. When we like, oh yeah, people are getting this. When you started getting that reaction from the audience, your listeners, your fans. Yeah, you know, when I first started writing, the intention was to kind of use it as a way to excise my shame. So when I started to study relationships, it was because I had a relationship that ended,

and I was at the time in sales, and I was good at sales. So I thought, why am I so good at talking about everything but my feelings? Like, this isn't a skill set issue. There's actually something else going on here. So I dove deep into the science. I wanted to understand, like, what makes relationships work? What makes them not? It was just selfish. It was for me and I started to realize like no one taught me any of this. Like why was I taught the Pythagorean theorem but not how to resolve conflict or not use gas lighting

or whatever it was that I was actually an excellent gas lighter. I would learn something and then I would write about some of the most shameful, painful moments of my life and translating it into wisdom, or what was my experience of, for me, was wisdom. Also, it was just like vulnerable, courageous shares. Like I wrote a article called Why You Really Can't Get Hard, which like what dude writes an article about the time

he tried to have a one-night stand and he couldn't get a one-night stand and he couldn't get a boner for the first time in his life. And I was so terrified hitting publish on that. And then I would get messages from people, men and women. That was so resonant for me. It's brave. I mean, I think you really are this example to so many men, which is what I love, that you show what vulnerability is. You're not just saying you should be vulnerable. And I think a lot of us don't even understand what it means to be vulnerable, to be emotionally available. Which I love is like your story is that you actually

were that guy, like your 20s or 30s, right? You were kind of that guy that something's wrong here. But you were on a journey. I was the guy I do videos about now. Like, he's unavailable? Let me tell you some things. You're not doing him any favors by chasing him. Like that's, it's, no nonsense, no BS.

You're just kinda like, this is how you do it. But what I like too is that you do speak to all genders, right, it's not just like men and women. What do you think it is that men need to hear today? Man, that's the answer every woman has been trying to figure out. Really? Well, you know when you think about it.

With love though, not with nagging them, but like, what are they,, can we help our men? How do I invite someone to meet me in a level of commitment, a level of communication? And I think it's so layered. I think the first part is that when we invite men to that, the conversation about masculinity is that masculinity is toxic.

But that's not masculinity that's toxic, it's unintegrated pain, it's trauma, it's that men are not socialized to be connected to their emotions. When a man is, let's say, in a relationship with a woman and the woman is saying, I just can't feel you. We look at the research and baby boys and baby girls are treated differently from the moment of inception, unconsciously, you know, we do that. And so it's just like, I notice I have a son now, he's 11 months old. And I noticed with him, I'm like, ah, you're good, you know, my wife is very different with him,

you know, where she's like, it's okay. And I'm like, it's okay. But there's like, he can handle a little, but if I had a little girl, I think I would be a little different. I'd probably be more like her. Right. So I see that that is within me too. I think what men need to be invited to meet their partners in that space, but also giving grace for the fact that if they're going to step into being emotionally vulnerable and open and actually become emotionally fluent outside of like leadership sales, although those are transl your sensitivity, you have to at the exact same moment rebel against everything you've been taught. So your identity and where you think your value lives has to die in order to be connected to your partner, which I also think the paradox of that, and you look at like Brene Brown's research, it's like the moment a man is emotional or vulnerable or cries, he's seen as weak. So by his partner. So

it's like we want emotional men, but do we? We know that if a man is crying on a battlefield, that's not a dude you want beside you. That's why it's so tricky. Maybe it would be helpful if you shared your story a little bit, your journey, because when I say like you were that guy, like could you just give us the,

how do you clip notes? Like if I'm sitting here with Mark at 20 and now Mark 45, a lot of us could see ourselves, even myself. I used to blame guys for being emotionally available and then I realized that I was emotionally available, that was part of my work, but, so it's really all genders, it's equal opportunity, but walk us through it real quick.

Well at 20, I would have had pookashell necklace on and some frosted tips, let's, maybe a quick silver t-shirt. You did the front, like Sonia and herself did this. Oh, no, like pull through the little helmet. Oh okay. You know, the little hooks. If that makes a comeback along with 90s style, I'm all in.

So in my teens, I really loved all out. My brother nicknamed me Sensator when I was a kid because I was sensitive, so I guess if I was a dinosaur, I'd have been a sensitive dinosaur, which probably means a dead dinosaur. Yeah, and so I was very sensitive. And when I entered my first relationship in like my main biggest one in high school,

I just loved all out. Like I didn't, I would say I didn't have boundaries around where I directed it, but at the time I would have identified as being, I'm just, I just love love, you know? And I would have said that relationships came easy to me. That's what I desired. I was in a serial monogamous.

And my first and second relationship ended with infidelity on the other side. And it was in the second relationship that it ended. When you hear the story for you listening or watching, you're gonna be like, oh God, yeah. My girlfriend in university, she went away on a scholarship for sports to the States, I'm from Canada. And when she went away, we were about,

I think we were together about like 15 months or 16 months. And we agreed that, you know, here she is going on this like amazing adventure, what an opportunity. And I'm like really in love. And you know, I think that she was too. And we agreed that we could see other people. We would just tell each other about it. That probably doesn't go well.

She comes back and visits at Canadian Thanksgiving. And she comes back and one of her best friends had already gone to. They bring their friend. And their friend, he just happens to be built like Adonis, also the running back of the football team. So this is great. And I'm sitting at Thanksgiving dinner

and I think she was like sitting to my right, he was sitting across from me and her parents were sitting to my left. And I remember all of a sudden, all the pieces coming together like, there's something going on here. And you know, if I had boundaries or if it was like medieval times, I probably would have thrown the table up, taken a sword out, you know, defended my honor. I did not do that. I ate my mashed potatoes and didn't say anything.

And my memory of that night was saying goodbye to her at the bottom of the stairs of her house and saying, is this how you tell me? And she was like, yeah. And I left that house different than entering that house. What I made that experience mean was that when I love people, they betray me. I can't trust myself. I'd spent my time until that moment, which was about 19, really believing in love.

And you know, well, some, not all my friends, but some men that I hung out with, I played sports, you know, you're in your locker room, you're not talking about like, oh man, I just like, my girlfriend and I are at two years and we just like really figured out how to go deeper in intimacy. You know, people are talking about blowjobs and whatever.

Did you get laid, did you not get laid? Right, no one's like, oh, we had really tantric sex last night, we did the wheelbarrow. Like no one's talking about that, unless it last night. We did the wheelbarrow. Like, no one's talking about that. Unless it was a one night stand wheelbarrow. So. I don't recommend that.

Yeah, it's not a great. Not on the one night stand. You don't know what their balance is like at that point. Yeah, you don't have enough information to be doing acrobatic shit. So the article that I wrote about why you really can't get hard, that is relevant to this.

Because never break up right before Halloween. I think that's a bad strategy because Halloween is like when really everyone kinda sexes it up a little bit. So I went out for a Halloween party and when I'd never had a one night stand, I'd never kissed anyone I didn't like. Like I didn't know that world but now in my unconscious mind,

I'm like love leads to pain. So I'm going to try this other side of things and also I don't know that and I'm sure you have a lot of thoughts on this but like unconsciously I'm also thinking if I can control intimacy, not only am I still maintaining desire and experiencing arousal but I can control the depth of intimacy and I can still have value in my peers. They won't see how much in pain I am. So I take a girl home to my parents' house, which one night stand one-on-one, not parents' house. No.

Like what a horrible idea. Right. Clearly I'm so bad at this. So she's dressed like the devil, which is not lost upon me. And I'm talking all this shit about all the things that are going to happen. Right. And, you know, I go to all systems, our check, you know, and then I can't get an erection. The worst.

It was the worst because it never made. I had no data. It never happened before. I had no. I didn't know that your values are connected to your ability. To your penis. Right. It can be, your anxiety. It's more outside for a man, so it's more obvious.

That's how we can fake it so well that men can't. Right, there's loop to violate your boundaries. But for me, there was not, I needed a shoehorn or something. It was like putting a marshmallow in a piggy bank. And that actually began that journey of more of that, I mean, now that term would be more like putting a marshmallow in a piggy bank. And that actually began that journey of sort of more of that, I mean now that term would be more like becoming a fuck boy, but it was really, I was just in pain. And I actually probably spent two years in that.

And then just trying to figure it out, and I realized that if I drank enough, I could diminish my sensitivity to my own value system. And I then met the woman that I eventually had the breakup that woke me up to relationships and wanting to understand things. But I remember when I was 35, I was on a call with a friend and she said to me,

and I was writing about relationships at this point, and she said to me, you know a lot about a lot of things, but I wanna know have you ever actually let a woman love you? And you know that feeling when someone tells you a truth and you're like, yeah? And then I got off the call and I was like, holy shit, I haven't let a woman love me since that Thanksgiving. And just like how many tried to and I ran from

and I didn't know why, it expressed, it like expressed as a lack of chemistry, not alignment. You know, I loved women who were just out of relationships or like not available, live somewhere else. That's great. Like we'll figure it out. I would just relationships. Right. Yeah. And that hit me like just so hard. And I just thought, I'm not going to let that happen anymore. Like I've allowed what happened at 19 because I didn't know how to process grief. I didn't have a mentor who could walk,

I didn't let anyone in to do that. It was so painful. And so I think about like that. You just shut it. Right, that definition of masculinity of like because I didn't have access or I would say like societal permission to grief. You know, it's not like I'm pretty lucky. My dad is really emotionally intelligent. He's the one

who I would talk to about heartbreaks and things like that. But I didn't let him into that. I had so much shame about being cheated on. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So. That's a long story. No, I love the story. Well, you know what? It made me think so many things. But the first thing is that by sharing that, would you say that everybody has that moment

that you had that affects why we're in relationships and why we do what we do? Like in thinking about that, because I feel like that's a lot of what you do with you help people realize like there's that moment that I shut down, why I'm not able to love, why I can't let people in. And like, I think that's a thing that,

and it's not just men either, it's women. And in talking to you, I'm thinking about, for me, and I still think I struggle with this, but I had something similar at 19. I had a lot of things before that, but my dad died suddenly. And for me, he was 49, and it was like, I know that I shut down to,

and before that, my parents had gotten divorced, so I had a lot of evidence that like, relationships were tough and people leave. And then he died one day. And it was like, oh, I can't ever like love again. I can't let anyone in. And I spent the same thing. Like part of me led to my work at 35,

because I was like, oh, this isn't working. Everybody else wants relationships and seems happy. Come to find out a lot of people aren't happy and they're suffering. So you're still on the path. But it's like, so I'm wondering, like that was my moment and I still, it's never goes away, but it's like, oh God, someone's gonna leave me if I love.

So I'm just shut down and I was very, I think I was a fuck girl, to be honest. I think we're very similar. I liked unavailable people, I played around, I actually was a cheater in my past life and it just didn't feel good. I was getting the highs from it. How do we source?

Like how do we, like you had that wise friend and you leaned into it, you were ready to lean into the truth and it just didn't feel good. I was getting the highs from it. How do we source? Like how do we, like you had that wise friend and you leaned into it. You were ready to lean into the truth. And it sounds like maybe the last 10 years, you've been like, you're never done, right, peeling back the layers. But like, how can we? Because I guess what I'm asking is,

do you think we all have that place that shifted the course of the way we love and what we commit? Yeah, for sure. Whenever I tell that story, which I get emotional about, not because it's- I know, I'm like seeing the tears, I'm like, oh, I'm emotional too.

Yeah, it's not because it's incomplete or unresolved, it's actually because I can connect with the younger version of myself who like was in such pain. And I don't wanna leave that. I like that I can actually now be so connective as opposed to like I drank to not feel that. Even though there was so much wisdom in the betrayal,

that Thanksgiving dinner, I only got to because I agreed that we could see other people and tell each other about it. But I actually didn't want that. So like my external betrayal was an internal betrayal long before. And I would say almost all, but not all, external betrayals are preceded

by internal betrayals of self. And I always ask people like, what's your Thanksgiving dinner moment? Because what I do is I have people finish the sentences when I love people they, when I let people love me I, because both of those, those sentences get completed. We like to optimally think I love them back, they love me. But there's usually a fear,

especially if we're repeating patterns relationally, repeating patterns in conflict, repeating patterns in types. So we're unconsciously reliving the same moments. And what I think it really, what I've figured it out to be true for me is that we have an upper limit of tolerance of what sort of grief we can tolerate and what sort of pain we have capacity for. So we unconsciously control relationships so that we never get to the Thanksgiving dinner again. But what we're doing is actually living in the dinner. We build these strategies,

whether it's unconsciously who we choose or our high standards, quote unquote, that make it so we are never gonna get there again. What we don't realize is in the brilliance of the moment is actually the skillset to go past it. I firmly believe that your capacity to love someone is always mirrored by your capacity to lose them. Because when you love someone,

you are in the moment signing up for the loss of them. So if a breakup means you lose yourself, then you're not ever gonna fully open to someone because you're gonna always be protecting from the losing of self. And I'm saying if you lost yourself because someone left, then that actually is the greatest gift

because you realize yourself doesn't live in their staying or going, it lives in you already. And so that, I mean, I think is that truly at the core of codependency too, is this like, if you're okay, I'm okay. If I'm enough, you're enough. You're gonna need me. I'm gonna need you.

So let's then, let's talk about codependency for a minute. That's also your new book is about codependency. How would you define, I feel like this is what I love about you, that you really can kind of get people to understand some of these like headier things or things that are just like hard to get into, hard to understand if we're in it or not. Well codependency traditionally is associated with relationships with addiction, right? Like Al-Anon and Codependent No More, which is a fabulous book written by Melody Beatty,

is based on Al-Anon. And so we see like, oh you're not in a relationship with an addict, you must not be codependent. How my wife and I really look at it because we wrote the book together and we were living out the healing of those patterns and we tell our story in the book and also because we were together five years broke up four a bit we call that the sacred pause and then got back together we call that relationship 2.0 is that you're sourcing your safety, security, your needs at the cost of yourself. Like at the cost of yourself. So there's an abandonment of self in order to maintain connection.

You know, and I love my friend Terry Cole talks about it as like you're overtly invested in the outcomes of others. Every step of the way you're saying that we just abandon ourselves because we wanna be a pleaser, we want to be loved so badly that we are not able to advocate for ourselves so we become I guess complacent. We become whoever we need to be in order to maintain connection. You know you think about at

the root of like my wife and I's pattern was my baseline. Yeah what it looked like in those five years before you yeah. Well mine was because you know and now I'm like I'm like, I'm never gonna be with anyone unavailable. Okay, that's not gonna happen. So then I set this standard of like, here's what I wanna create, here's what it is, I'm explicit about it.

And my wound at the base of how I related was no one chooses me. Like you don't choose me. That was your message. Yeah. That was the Thanksgiving dinner message that you told yourself was that no one's gonna choose me or that safe. I'd say that was even true earlier. Because how I oriented to my family, I'm the youngest,

I found that I really oriented around my mom's needs. She would often be overwhelmed. She's raising three kids. All the realities of being a human. And as a kid, I was like, well, if my mom's okay, I'm okay. And so when we orient around other people which at the baseline that could be someone in a relationship with someone who's you know as a kid your parents are addicts

they're narcissists they're abusive they're they're not around like there's all these different ways yeah and because we just normalize the fact that your parents did something that's impacting you now right I mean to they were living their life there was a lot of information then but there's something to excavate from our childhood. Yeah, always. And in the book we go through like, what's your relationship blueprint

so you can figure out what that is. So for me it was knowing you don't choose me. My wife's was, there's something wrong with me that I can't choose this relationship. So if you think about it, it's perfect. I have an Instagram called create the love. I teach people about relationships. You couldn't monetize a wound better, first off. I'm gonna be needed by you. I've got courses you're

gonna pay to be taught by me. I've got an Instagram where I get validated and I'm out there now like helping everyone, just like sourcing so much validation. And also if there's something wrong and you need help with it, I've got the solution. Well, that doesn't work in a relationship because in order to maintain connection and this happens in code abandon dynamics, one person has to maintain being a problem that needs to be solved and the other person is the problem solver. So if all of a sudden and we see this in addiction, if the one person heals the addiction, the other person starts to go bananas because they don't have a job anymore.

They don't have a job, they're out of work. So with us, my wife had a dream early in our relationship that she was in a burning house and she had to leave. And the burning house was our relationship. So I'm like out for a run one day and I'm just like. Ouch. Yeah, yeah. So now my house on fire?

I'm like out for a run one day and I'm like, man, I really chasing her right now and it's driving me bananas. So I'm like, hey, I'm just house on fire? I'm like out for a run one day and I'm like, man, I really chasing her right now and it's driving me bananas. So I'm like, hey, I'm just sensing that when I like get you, you distance and then you, I pursue and then you distance. And I'm like, I don't wanna do that. And so like, can we talk about that?

And she's like, frick, I had this dream and it's terrifying me. I don't wanna leave, but I had like, it was so visceral. So we talk about it and she's like, I'm gonna see somebody about it. So this is like a year in, we spend the next- So it's a year into the relationship, is it was so visceral. So we talk about it and she's like, I'm gonna see somebody about it. So this is like a year in. We spend the next- So it's a year into the relationship,

did you say it? Yeah, we were together for the first time for four and a half, five years. So she goes to, we work, talk about it, but at the, underneath all this, in my unconscious is, our relationship was a burning house and she might leave in any moment. You can't hear anything else after that.

She better resolve it. And she was trying. I mean, God bless her. She was like, what's wrong with me that I have a burning house dream even now? But she also was like, it was so real. Like I got to go. So eventually we, you know, read enough books, did the thing, saw a psychotherapist. Yeah, you guys have done it all. Fuck yeah. And, but we didn't have someone who like could guide us past this pattern that was really being invited,

which there was a day where I was like, listen, I wanna create a life and I wanna do it with you. And if you can't do it, that's okay. I love you, but I'm not gonna hold. That was your first boundary. Like I've been through this too many times. I, this is what I want. Yeah, it was like, I finally chose me.

In the wound I was living out, I finally chose myself. And she, in that moment, you could feel like she felt relief because I still loved her and she couldn't figure out why she had to go. And what transition was, I said to her, instead of orienting to your dream and your intuition, that something's wrong with you

that you have to go, what happens if you actually just have a deep knowing, what's coming up for you is coming up for me, I just can't put a name to it, but it was my chasing. So we oriented to what was coming up for her from a place of reverence, and we ended the relationship. And it was like one of the most powerful experiences of my life, we did a closing ceremony ended the relationship. And it was like one of the most powerful experiences of my life.

We did a closing ceremony for the relationship. And- I mean, that's so beyond. People were like, I can't, I blocked my partner on Instagram and burned- I did mute her. That was part of it. Through all their clothes out the window.

Like, you know what I mean? You're like, we had a ceremony and like lit sage and- I mean, we actually- I know, I know. We burned a house. You burned a house you burn a house another natural house we bought a bird house okay and we represented the house from her dream just to say like you're wise there was nothing broken about you like we got to the place you intuitively had in a dream four years later like

that's so beautiful yeah honestly was the most beautiful. And then you broke up, you had this closing ceremony and then you found your way back. Yeah, we were done. Like I was done. I was not, no interest in getting back together. I was no interest of going back in a pattern because now I experienced choice.

I trusted myself. And if you don't have access to a no, you don't have access to an authentic yes And neither of us had access to an authentic no yet, but we found it So now the choice of each other actually doesn't come with any what happens if I hurt your feelings What happens if we don't align none of that now? It's like we have a dedication to truth liberated love is a dedication to truth And it's also having positive regard for your partner,

but also their own path, their own journey, you know? Which I never thought I'd be able to live, you know? After the breakup, you mean? I just never thought, like if you had asked 20 year old Pukashell Frosted Tips Mark, like could you be with someone and acknowledge the truth that at some point your past might depart, which is true for everybody. Everybody, some of your partner could die,

meet someone else, there's always the chance of loss when you love deeply. Which makes you have to acknowledge the deep truth. You know, that if they can go, that means they're choosing to not go, which means there's value in their choice, which means what a beautiful thing to give to somebody. You could gift it to so many people and they give it to not go, which means there's value in their choice, which means what a beautiful thing to give to somebody. You could gift it to so many people

and they give it to you. Well, I better be pretty good to keep that. You know what I mean? Wow, I mean, there's so much there, Mark. I'm going back to two things now because like this is such a great example, like your wisdom and now that with your new book, it's like people can really learn

how to sort of work through all this stuff. But I wanna go back to one thing. Is there a pattern around this emotionally? All the couples who've reached out to you, what does that look like? How does it show up? And then how do we know if we should stay or go? Big question.

That's a big question. Well, the first part of like, how do you know stuff is showing up? If you're even thinking about looking it up, it's showing up. You know, that's pretty easy. The second one is, if you have just thinking about looking it up, it's showing up, you know, that's pretty easy. The second one is, if you have just repeated

relational outcomes, who you're attracting, who you're, like it's so interesting to me that someone will unconsciously relate to people who are married or in relationship and be like, I just keep meeting married men or women. And I'm like, no, there's actually something much deeper in there and your soul's evolution inviting you to heal something isn't just doing this by accident. Like your Tinder doesn't have a virus in it.

It's not happening to us. Right. You have something that you call a green flag that other people call a red flag. And that's okay, but let's just get to the root of it. So I'd say like repeated outcomes in relationship, fighting with your partner about the same things over and over again, feeling like you're at an upper limit in your relationship, like maybe you're disconnected, maybe you're not having sex, maybe you feel like

resentment towards them, contempt, any forms of tolerating any abuse. Attraction to unavailability is a pretty, dating projects, dating people who- Vixer uppers? Yes, yes, dating projects where you notice that you're overly invested in your own appearance of I'm a good person, I'm the better person, I just take care of people,

I love all out, that's a favorite of codependent people. Like I just love all out. Other people don't seem to be able to meet me with the giant capacity that I have for love, which I would have said when I was 17 or 18. To then get to the question of like, how do I know if I should stay or go? Which is such a powerful entry to inquiry,

because if you're asking that, at least you're no longer in an autonomous process in relationship. Like you're no longer out of power, you're like, oh, I'm questioning, should you say that? And we usually get there because we are disconnected from ourselves. You know, and a lot, you know, in the research

we talk about things like the honeymoon phase, which then leads to what they call more companionate love. Where, you know, the term I like, which is like the fall from grace, like your partner that you revere and is just amazing, all of a sudden becomes a human who farts and doesn't always dress up, you know, like all the different things.

And the humanization of them. But what I see happen in longer term relationships where chemistry quote unquote dies, is that what- It always dies. Right, which is in my thought, is that what actually happens is the space between you and your partner, the self abandonment, the self erasure, the eradication of who you are, your identities,

your passions, everything like that, which actually creates two individuals, that is gone. So what happens is you actually unconsciously blame your partner and the relationship for you not prioritizing and caring and the relationship for you not prioritizing and caring and being in your dreams and prioritizing yourself. So you don't wanna bang somebody that you blame for you giving up on yourself,

not seeing your friends anymore. You know, once I got this message from this woman where she said, you know, my partner and I have the best relationship. We have amazing communication. Everything is unreal, but our chemistry is just not there. And I was like, has it ever been there? She was like, yeah, yeah, we used to have amazing chemistry.

So that right away tells me that there's something deeper going on. And I said, do you ever not tell him the truth? She was like, no, our communication's dialed. We're honest with each other, we have great conflicts, navigation. And I said, okay, what about when you have sex? And she was like, what do you mean?

I was like, all right, so let's say he's going down on you and he's just not doing what's working. Do you tell him? And she was like, well, no. I was like, so this fucking guy is down there, his jaw's falling asleep, his tongue's now licking his own eye. He's trying every move to like, trying to get free lives on a Nintendo.

And you're not telling him. Why? And she said, because, well, I don't want to hurt his feelings. And I said, that's it. That's the part where you're not being truthful. Yep. That's the codependency. We're not gonna talk about sex. Yeah, well, how, yeah, I was gonna,

how does it show up in our sex life then? Where do you see it, the co-dependencies showing up? It's that, it's not sharing our authentic truth because we're so afraid of sharing what we need and what we want. Think about how, I mean, you know this. It's like, you're not even able to fully be authentic in your self-expression for what you actually need,

explicitly, to achieve whatever you want to achieve, which that gets in the way of connection. So it's like a micro version, because if it's happening there, I guarantee it's happening elsewhere. You know, like when someone says like, we no longer have sex, it's like, you know, that's like a magnifying glass to other things.

And some people still have sex and that's the only place they actually experience emotional safety. And so- Yeah, but that's rare. That's definitely rare. But like, okay, so that's interesting only place they actually experience emotional safety. And so- Yeah, but that's rare. That's definitely rare. But like, okay, so that's interesting. I never, because I would say the majority of couples

that I see are gonna go through that period. The death of the honeymoon phase. And this whole like, how did I get here? Who was this person in front of me? And I've seen all this reality that's canceling out this chemistry, which we all know is just this, the crazy chemistry in our brain, the feel good hormones that are

allowing us to connect someone and that any drug that goes up, it's going to come down and we don't have sex anymore. So yeah, I could definitely see that. That's almost a great way of pinpointing that you're actually being codependent by not sharing, because I'm always trying to get people to talk about their sex life. It's so complex and so heady. And we're so afraid that either it's something wrong with us or our partners are going to feel bad.

So we just don't talk to them about it. That is a great place to get people to start and be like what is wrong. Well if you want to heal... And it's everywhere in our relationship. It does show. I do one thing is how you do everything. Exactly and it's like if you want to experience... like what we call liberated love is interdependency. It's like can you lay at the altar of your relationship the truth? Like my wife and I have a dedication to truth above everything because you know most of us are so afraid that our relationship might end or we're afraid our partner won't like what we say or we express a

boundary and it won't be honored or respected which is possible but it's like if you keep not sharing what is true for you because you're afraid of how someone might respond they are not trusted that they can hold the information. You also reinforce the belief in yourself that you're not worthy of being heard so you get to reinforce the belief in yourself that you're not worthy of being heard. So you get to blame them for the fact that you're not sharing. And on top of that,

the relationship never gets the chance to actually grow and change. It is now a prison. And so why would you want to be intimate with someone that you can't share how you truly feel? Like I find it wild that when relationships end, then we're like, I'm going to do what I love. I'm going to pursue my dreams.

All of a sudden, like, why are we not doing that in our relationship? And I think to like at 20, if my partner said, you know, especially after my girlfriend went away to the States and brought Adonis home, it's like, if someone said to me, then I need to go do something and blah, blah, blah, I'd probably have a very controlling, jealous, like I can't, you know, there would be some, because I haven't, I don't think her coming fully alive or her going on her path might actually hurt my path.

Like if she leaves, which should have been what actually happened, I was just trusting her path. And if I try to control where she goes and what she does and her actually coming fully alive, that's because I'm afraid of my I'm not doing it. Relationships should be the place where we are liberated from our patterns. Like the frictions we have in any conflicts in any relationship, but I'd say especially romantic, are just showing us where our work lies. But what is so interesting with everything that you're saying is that it's such a crutch for us to be the victim,

blame someone else for our problems. It's something they did, but really your reframe is that it's truly an opportunity for growth and it's a direct roadmap to where we have to do our work. And in fact, I remember therapists at this once, like you unconsciously choose the partner that's showing you where you need to do the work and where you need to grow. Would you say the majority of the couples who are together, if they are both willing to do the work and look at themselves, that they could make it work

if they committed to the process? Like I think at the baseline, if you look at like Stan Taken's work, he talks about how the reason relationships fail is they fail to make clear agreements at the beginning. A lot of us get married not even knowing what we're doing. We're like 20 and you're like I'm Christian, I might as well get married so I can bang. There's all these different reasons. I'm 25, I've been in this relationship forever. You know, we all enter relationship as a different person.

We have different desires that's gonna change as you grow. I mean so many people in their 40s, 50s, 60s who are like, I don't want what I have anymore. And I'm like, that makes sense. You made an agreement at 22 and your relationship, maybe if it was possibly going to be aligned, it doesn't have the skills. You don't have the skills in the container to actually create what you want to create.

So do I think it's possible? 100% is possible. You need someone who can take responsibility, is curious, orients to growth. I think if you have those as the baseline, like when Kylie and I broke up, I wasn't concerned about finding someone. All I need is someone who wants to grow,

has humility, and is ready to change. And we have aligned visions. But the thing is I keep thinking, it's like, why don't we have a relationship contracts and literally maybe you have this in your book. I don't know. I've been thinking like, when else in our lives do we sign a contract forever

without checking like no expiration date, no renewal of contract, no lawyer, nothing. You're like, okay, forever. Are you sure you want to say that till death? Do you want to say that? Actually, we just say, I think it's a metaphorical death personally.

Death of the self who said yes, because like, no matter what, if you wanna step out of code of abandoned patterns, your relationship has to end. Like your pattern has to end. And it's actually in the willingness for a relationship to end that you're now free to choose it. Like as I was saying earlier,

if you don't have access to the no, you don't have access to the yes. So if you're afraid your relationship's gonna end or your partner might leave, then you're not actually gonna be authentically connected to the no, you don't have access to the yes. So if you're afraid your relationship's gonna end or your partner might leave, then you're not actually gonna be authentically connected to the choice in the relationship. I mean, most people come to me when they've never talked about their sex life ever.

I'm like, we've been together for two, and the thing is, it's not just your 20s. Like, I have people in their 40s, 50s, literally my audience is 18 to 83 because most people have never talked about sex and then they wake up one day with a partner or they're dating, but let's talk about the couples. And they're like, no, we never,

we talk about everything, about our sex life. Or we've never talked about it. And now here we are, what do I want? What do I need? But then there's many other things too. So I just think like some kind of, like anyone who's even dating now, what are the things you think that we,

we could get clearer on to not save us from the pain because we need some of the pain, but like, what are we missing? Like, what are the questions that we need to ask? I just keep thinking about this renewable contract that they could have if you're committing. Like, we commit every six months or every year. Do we meet our values? Do we meet our goals?

How's our sex life? Well, I think building in that habit of check-in anyways is just so important. It's so important. The relationship, the sexual, the check-in. I'll be right back after a quick break for our sponsors. So just stick around. But first, I have to tell you about Lalo's F1S V3.

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Also, you can check out the link in the show notes. Hey, it's Emily. I know you know me from my podcast, SEX WITH EMILY, which I've been doing now for almost 20 years. It's been downloaded over half a billion times. But now I have an announcement to make. I am breaking out of the studio and coming to a live theater audience. I'll be in San Diego on April 10th and then in Phoenix on April 18th.

So let's talk about sex. During these nights, I'm gonna get into all of your nitty gritty sex questions. And I, come on, I know you have sex questions like how to give your partner an orgasm, how to talk dirty, how do you experiment with role play, using a toy. We're gonna laugh, we're gonna learn. I mean, who doesn't wanna improve their sex lives

with some new friends in the audience? So whether you're single in a relationship or somewhere in between, this event is for you. Look forward to an evening where your curiosity is celebrated, your questions are answered and your laughter, well, that's on the soundtrack. Leave your inhibitions at the door and join me for an unforgettable event. So mark your calendars, San Diego on April 10th, Phoenix on April 18th. Trust me, this is one night you won't want to miss. So I hope to see you there. Spread the word,

tell your friends, and we'll put the links in the show notes San Diego Phoenix and more to come So let's laugh our way to better sex together. Are you in? Speaking of sex I have to ask you this you got married recently We got married a month before we had our kid. Okay, and you have a baby. So how's your sex life? Well after having a kid, definitely different. Well, that's right. We all know that. So, yeah, we don't know.

I'm guessing that's, I wanna normalize the fact that your sex life is going to take a hit after you have a baby. It completely changed for now. But for me, you know, that I see as a season. You know, my wife and I talk about it. We talk about like how vulnerable it is now, how different it is for her, especially. For me, I'm like, whoa, I still wanna do it. We talk about like how vulnerable it is now, how different it is for her especially. For me, I'm like, well, I still wanna do it, that's great.

But I also have to have so much compassion for the changes, the things her body has been through. And so it's really interesting to explore. And I knew this cognitively before we had a kid, but that a kid when it touches mom, it needs something. So now when I touch mom, I need something. So there's like this association with need. And so really being mindful of how do we navigate that

and how do we actually create space for like the needs I have, the needs she has to enter back into that sacred space, you know? That's really what it is. Normalize to people that that's gonna happen and expect it. Like I almost wish, because we also know here how it's such an unfair, the treatment of like, women go to their doctors, doctors like,

you should be good to go after this baby in six weeks. It's like, that's so not true for so many women. Oh my God. And just to normalize that, it's just not gonna be okay. But I love that you, I figured you would know this, that it's harder and we gotta have compassion and just know that it's a season. It's gonna come back again.

I mean, my wife is expressive. And you get to redefine it to perceive. You'd have to be with someone expressive. I married a woman who has thoughts and feelings and power. And that was the difference when we came back together. She really chose me. And that I was terrified of, but it was everything I always wanted, which is so ironic.

But I say all that because. You're like, not so much. I kind of like choosing a little bit too much. We turned down a little bit of that part. But I love it, it is so hot. Like the self-expression that she has, the access to her power, her voice, her know, like that is hot.

Boundaries are so sexy. Like when someone's like, it's not okay what you said, you're like, well, tell me more, you know? And with her, what I love is that that act is sacred. It created our child, like he's a miracle. Watching her give birth, I remember watching her give birth being like, do you think you could do anything now?

Cause I would have tapped out. She's 30 something hours of labor. And I remember thinking what was wild about that was I was like looking at my clock and I'm like, this ends at some point, but I don't know how it ends. And as a man, I want to like resolve her of her pain, but I couldn't do anything other than just be in space with her, like champion her, cheer her on.

It created so much reverence, like a deeper love for her that I couldn't have had without that experience. I have a friend who texted me not long ago, he just had a baby and he said, hey, like my wife and I haven't had sex in a bit, is this normal? And I was like, yeah, man, we went to our six week followup, that's what I meant to say.

And we go to our followup with our like our midwives are also labor and delivery nurses and we're sitting with them and she says, she says, have you guys, so you guys can have sex now. Have you guys had sex? And I was like, I'm sorry, do people say yes to that? And she was like, well, I mean, sometimes. And I was like, how?

First off, there's a baby there all the time. That's not my idea of romance. And that's where I recognize that that's where the male needs get prioritized over the woman's healing. And the male doesn't have to just sit in the fact that he's not gonna have arousal for a little bit. Like turn it into creativity, turn it into purpose. Hold that space like as a warrior, you know?

Instead of like, oh, I can't not jizz for fucking five months. Like. Or you can masturbate, healthy part of the relationship. Like. Exactly. You don't need her, she'll be there, she'll be back. I mean, you need her eventually, perhaps, but it's also, you can also like let yourself.

You can say jizz on your show, right? Yeah, you could say whatever you want on our show. I've always wanted to say that on a podcast. You could say, it's a good one, it's a good one. They don't say jizz enough anymore. They don't. There's so many good sexual terms. There are.

We don't talk about, what else did we say? Boner. No, we don't say boner. There was one earlier that I heard. And I don't think we give enough hand jobs either. I think hand jobs can come back. You don't have to do blow jobs. Blow jobs have the best VR.

You know what a good hand job is? It'd be great, you see some lube. It's a two-handed hand job. I know, exactly. I know. I just feel like there's just so much about sex that is wrong. They're underrated.

Because they're considered first base. So they're underrated. You're like, oh, here we are, first base. It's like, can we just go to third? Don't get me wrong, third is pretty good. No, right, they're all good. But that's the thing, like how is there even a hierarchy over stuff that makes you feel good sexually?

So true. Isn't it? It's like, for me, I would instantly, when I started dating, be like, oh my God, I love this person. Like I've already imagined the life. I'm like the chick. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

And so I'm like, I've imagined the life. This is amazing. And what was so powerful in our container was that I would feel that need to be like, Oh, we're doing this like it's all in. And then I would realize like, Oh wait, it's not. And is this a fit for me? Because what I did as a kid, because I wanted people to choose me, and if they chose me, then I'm safe.

Like if we're in a relationship, you post me on Instagram, things are good. But that wasn't real, that's not grounded choice. So what I realized was I was actually acting in discernment. Like is this a good fit for me? Is this a yes? Is it a no? I was so, I would say yes to something that wasn't.

Which is of course, like the pursuit of an unavailable person is giving your attention and your time to someone who you're actually not being discerning about. Why would you ever, like a pre-qualifier for anyone to be your person, in whatever capacity that means, is that they actually choose you. Like if that's not there, nothing else should be there. Well, would you say that's the whole thing happening now with like situationships and toxic relationships? Because in my opinion, I want to know yours.

I feel that a situationship is just inherently like there's one person who wants something different than the other one. They're not communicating and clearly they have a lot of work. They're rich, rife with problems. I agree, like friends with benefits. I think 99.9% of the time, because I'm sure there's somebody who's listening, who's like, not me, which much love. There is one person who is minimizing what they desire

to match the other person's desire. And you know what, that's self abandonment. That's like what that says, that's codependent because it's saying what I actually desire I'm not gonna be able to get, I'm not worthy of. So I have to actually hide my desires in friendships, in friends with benefits, in situationships in order to kind of get my need met.

But I'm gonna be praying that they change their mind, that they fall in love. If I blow them enough, they'll love me. No, I guarantee that guy is like, I found this chick who just loves giving me head and she doesn't want anything. It's like wild to me. She keeps hoping that the blow jobs get better

then you're gonna love me. But I also wanna say this part though, there is the people who truly, and this is rare, who are like, I don't have time for relationship right now. Truly. Totally. That's why I'm 99're like, I'm with you. It's not any point now, but I always want to like give a shout out. I see you.

You're like open and you're sleeping. You're giving a few blowjobs. You're going down in a bunch of people, right? Because you're exploring your craft or your life and you really don't have time and space for a relationship right now. But then you might also be a workaholic and be avoiding intimacy, but you might generally be in a place expressing. That's how it's expressing.

So I have so many like ways I go with this, because I actually do know people who are happily, seemingly so at this stage in their life, open, like married, open. So I guess I think I like friends with benefits better than in situationships, because situationships feel more toxic and unhealthy because people are coming at you,

have like a, situationship sounds like we've got, I can't really define it, but friends with benefits is such, like, okay, if you really are, I mean, they're pretty much the same thing, but there are healthy expressions of it. But most people are not. I think like a couple people going through a breakup that are like, I want intimacy and connection.

I trust you, we treat each other with reverence and respect. You know, I think the one good rule of thumb to have is that if you can't do it sober, don't do it. Because then you're having to numb yourself to be in a situation and then you already know that there's no win there. I know that you're sober, right? Yeah. And so many people start drinking at a young age because the thought of being intimate with someone is so terrifying. So they always marry the sex they have to have sex and alcohol are their drug of choice.

So when they stop that, it's really hard to be intimate because that was actually their crutch. Right? And you think like shame and guilt are so correlated with sex, especially because, you know, let's say for example, and I not, not all religion is like this, but often it's like, if you are aroused or have intimacy,

you're going to hell or you're bad, you're dirty, you're whatever. And you grew up that way, right? I grew up Catholic and that messaging, I remember we were in a class in high school and they brought this couple in that had sex and had a baby and basically the couple was saying like, don't do this or you have to become us

and then you come and talk to a class. Like they were basically parading them around and I guess it was like a walk of shame. And I remember sitting there being like, this isn't good, this isn't nice, this isn't kind. And at the same time, I'm having sex with my girlfriend. So it's a strange feeling because if you're taught that arousal is bad, but innately humans experience arousal,

then you either have to believe you're bad or deny arousal, then you either have to believe you're bad or deny arousal, which you can't. Like, that's not actually real. So you end up with all these people who are walking around with shame and guilt who need alcohol to actually be in these important, sacred, intimate moments. Because it's, you know, we know it numbs us.

So we can't have the thoughts about being bad and being cold and that like, I'm gonna be go blind from masturbating or be struck down. Right. Go blind. Like it's, I remember going to the sex museum where they had like medieval tools. And one of them was like, it looked like a ring that went around like the teenager's penis.

And if they got an erection, it would set off a bell. And I'm like, that would suck. Cause you're not, it's not your choice in your, you know, when you're sleeping. It's actually healthy. All of a sudden bells are going off everywhere. But the funny thing is what, instead of that now, they just have your bell going off as your brain saying,

this is wrong, this is wrong. Even if you're, this is why people, they could be in their forties. They haven't been in church in 20 years, but they still have that. You can't like, it's like, you're indoctrinated into this like, you know, belief such a young age. I wasn't raised that way,

but like it's so hard to shake that completely. And then, yeah. And then we're just kind of screwed unless we do this inner work and heal it. Cause all the work that you talk about, and I talk about is really just healing these messages that are leading us through a life of really having way less pleasure and connection and fun and enemies.

But the intimacy and the love comes and the depth and the pleasure comes when you actually can be vulnerable and real which is how we all started this which is such a... So like imagine if the relationship is the relationship is bringing up something that needs to be worked through so that you can get more intimacy more connection more access to your voice more access to to sex, to arousal, but like authentic, like witnessed arousal, like authentic, vulnerable connection. That to me is why romantic relationships are such a powerful space. And I totally agree with you. It's like, it doesn't matter what brings you

to the why do I do what I do. But that is the should I stay or go? That point of inquiry is, okay, why do I do what I do? What do I truly want to do and experience in my life? Have I ever asked myself that question? What do I actually need? What do I actually want? Can the relationship be part of what brings that to surface? Because as I said before, it's so crazy

that people leave relationships and become everything. It's like, use your relationship as a place to become everything. Like my wife can reflect to me things that I don't see. About herself or about you? About me. Right, because you have that, she sees you, she's got your growth, yeah.

She'll say to me like, hey, I noticed you're playing small in this, like I love you and that's, you can't do that. And I'm like, oh God, like you see me. And you still, and it's still hot, right? Cause I think some people think, well, going back to how we started this was that like men, it's such confusing messages right now that men are totally

wanting to be emotional, but like, don't cry here. Don't cry here. Like a lot of men hear that they go, oh my God, if my partner told me I was playing smart, said anything was small, I would be very, I'd be like feel awful and feel like so much shame. But you actually are able to do, I've done the work when we say the work to feel like,

oh, it's actually love. It's not judgment criticism. It's helped you be bigger. Yeah, and that she, we have the access to the language that at least minimizes the amount of triggers. Cause you know, language is important, but also the fact that, you know, I have had to sit with my shame, my unworthiness, my defensiveness.

My mastery was being defensive. Yeah. Wow. Done so much. Okay, so I have a final question for you. Before we get into a question from a listener, I'd love you to help me answer. But if we had to just, if you had to say there are three things that someone could do now that would help them know if they're on the path

and get on the path towards the love they want. I'd say the first one is getting real with your reality. You know, like there's no change that doesn't come with actually telling the truth. You know, are you happy? Does your relationship bring you alive? If you're single, is it like, are my standards actually walls?

Like, am I afraid of connection? Like, what do I do to avoid connection? What are the strategies I have in conflict? What's my side of the street? And the second side of that I think would be, okay, now that I know those things, what are some things that I could do to learn about that? Can I bring it, if I'm in a relationship?

Bring them forward to the relationship. What I said about my wife and I that was a radical transformation is that we saw that if something's coming up for one person, it's coming up for the other. It's like playing leapfrog. One person's awareness, or let's say, if you believe in God, the universe, whatever you call it,

there's a ping coming to one person and although the other person might not understand it yet, it is treating the other person with reverence when you say there's wisdom in what's coming up for you. If we could walk shoulder to shoulder looking at that thing, you have two people who can actually problem solve and actually say like you trusted me with this. I think the third part is like actually get clear on what you're committed to. Some of us are in relationships that we actually have no interest in being in, you know, but that doesn't serve anybody, you know. It doesn't. It's good for all relationships. Like if you don't like love your job or your problem with your friendships, it's just like really goes back to ourselves. What's going on here?

Right. And that's also like, you could see your part. We all have a part in everything. Takes two to tango. It does. And that level of ownership, that self ownership of like, I will no longer tolerate mediocrity from myself. It doesn't even have to start with other people, but that could be where it begins.

Cause you, you know, you had a crappy person you were dating or the partner you're in relationship with doesn't, isn't interested in growth and actually doesn't listen to any feedback you have. It could start there, but any of that is really just evidence of your own tolerance for ambivalence, tolerance for mediocrity.

Like anyone who really steps into like full responsibility for their life will no longer wanna be in a relationship with someone who doesn't take responsibility for their life. You can't be a victim and't take responsibility for their life. You can't be a victim and also take responsibility for your life. And that's not negating true experience of victimization, but it's saying like, you can't change what's happened in your life, but you can change what you do with what's happened. Let's answer this question from Sergio.

He's 32 in Thailand. Hi Sergio in Thailand. What's up Sergio? Dear Dr. Emily, I've been in a relationship for nearly two years now with the woman of my dreams. She's everything I ever wanted in a partner. She's beautiful, talented, ambitious and caring. She'll do anything for me. There's always this part, but.

But. I've been struggling to emotionally disconnect from a couple of women I had flings with prior to meeting my current girlfriend. I haven't had any physical contact with them in two years and I don't believe they were that into me back then, let alone now, and certainly not like my current girlfriend is. Yet, I still think what if and even fantasize about them a lot. My girlfriend doesn't suspect any of this but it's having a detrimental effect on my

mental health and on my ability to be 100% present with her. I feel delusional and want to leave the past in the past but I can't find myself separating from it. Any advice and insight would be much appreciated." I mean, what I heard real quickly here is it's just that, again, after our conversation, it's like, this is some kind of distraction from him. Going deeper. Going deeper, right?

Yeah. There's a line that he used in that that I think is an interesting caveat he put in there, which is, I've had no physical contact, which that immediately tells to me that he probably has digital contact in some way. And what you said, there's a fear of going deeper here. These are sabotages from intimacy

by having this diffuse attention, which has arousal associated with it, which probably, there's probably something about depth with his current girlfriend that he's afraid of that he then sabotages by and the treat the feeling the fear gets resolved through arousal and fantasizing instead of actually bringing his fear to his partner to go deeper. And the other side of it is, and this is I think the really important part to at least move further in it, is you have to go complete 100% no contact. Because if your partner says that she loves you on the deepest level and she chooses you fully and you're out of integrity

and you're communicating with other people and you know on a deep level like there is connection there, they might desire more, you're out of, like you know, you could tell in your body that you're communicating with other people, and you know on a deep level, like there is connection there, they might desire more, you're out of it. Like, you know, you could tell in your body that you're not operating in your value system. You won't believe her because you know that on a deeper level, you're actually not a man of honor. And that type of truth can sting.

But I think we all know when we're out of alignment with our own values and when we do that, it stings, man. It gets in the way and blocks intimacy. First off, if she found out, she'd be upset. So there could be something about the mystery that also creates excitement because like, hey, when someone tells you, I'm not going anywhere, I love you, I choose you fully, when we don't trust someone's choice, maybe because of our childhood, we're like, that's kind of boring. Like I kind of like the chaos of uncertainty and mystery. So I'm just gonna shake some shit up.

But meanwhile, you know when you look at your partner, you're not in alignment. Yeah. I'm with you and it's so seeing everything through your lens and my lens and just even after our conversation here, it's just so funny. It's like, I almost think like,

we've kind of been a buzzkill here today for people because it's like toxic relationships, affairs, just having sex, all the things that are like, people are like, I'm having a great life. It's so fun. I'm dating the married person. And I'm this, we won't let people get away with any of the bullshitting or that's not serving them.

Like, sorry, like all your things. And I recognize myself in this. And it's like, because we get our body, we get a physiological response. He's probably like, you know, texting them and he gets a little high. He gets a buzz. It's like, because we get our body, we get a physiological response. He's probably like, you know, texting them and he gets a little high, he gets a buzz. It's like his alcohol. Sure, he even said he fantasizes about it.

He fantasizes, he's getting, it is serving him right now. And I feel like almost all of these things, the toxic relationships, the situationships, the flirting, the whatever, is all truly just ways that we're numbing ourselves. And it's almost like, I don't know how, like, I've got some work to do. But I also like, how do we make this fun?

Like talking about your relationship, it's like, there is some like beautiful depth and love that can happen by really being vulnerable. Yeah, I mean, I think that the idea, one, if I oriented that I have work to do from a place that that means it's evidence that I'm broken, then I'm not gonna orient to growth from a positive way. If it feeds self-worth issues, then I'm gonna resent work,

I'm gonna resent the mirrors I get from my relationships. Look, I spent some of my 20s having great sex, random sex. I'm not shaming anyone for their choices. I'm just saying that, hey, maybe some of the things I learned through some high-risk behavior, which I just happen to get away with it, a lot of people don't. A lot of people have massive consequences to choices like that. So my only hope for people is never to elicit shame, but to actually say like, if you have a deep knowing that you're actually in violation of your own values and your own boundaries and your own morals,

that's, which is not a religious construct, but your own personal construct, you're avoiding grief, you're avoiding yourself, I just want you to be free. I want your choices to be the intention behind them, not to be to avoid suffering or to avoid intimacy, but to actually be in an adventure, to be curious. And that's so possible. You have conscious connected loving open beautiful sex with

someone that you're not in a deep monogamous relationship with I personally think that the like the can the deeper the commitment the more the growth you know and there's a saying that commitment only works if you do it and I think so many of us have caveats to the things we choose in our life, to our own disciplines. We don't double down and go all in on the things you want to be. Because you look at the most successful people in the world, and I don't mean that as a metric of like money, but like the people we admire the most who seem to have the richest lives, not wealth, but life. They care about their relationships. You look at the five regrets of the dying from brawny wear.

She's a palliative care nurse. Four of them are relational and emotional. They're like, I wish I wouldn't have worked so hard as the one, but I wish I had let myself be happier. I wish I had told people how I truly felt. They're like all aligned with something like that. Why I bring that up is because when you get to the end of your life, which could be tomorrow,

and like buzzkill, it's like when you get there, will you be proud of how you showed up? Will you have loved all out? You know, and to me that's, you look at the research from like Harvard on the longest running study on well-being, the greatest predictor of your health at 80 is the quality of your health at 80 is the quality of your relationships at age 50.

And not just romantic, just all your relationships. So like your body, inflammation, physiology, all of these are correlated to your capacity to love and be loved and create trusting, safe relationships. I love it. So wise. So we gotta do the work. This is it.

I think this is a great step for people after this conversation. How could they not take a little bit look inward, right? I just feel like the most trying to be- It just means better sex. Like at the end of the day, it's better sex. Exactly, let's just say that it truly does because so much of sex is about,

like the best sex we have is when we are, and when we trust. Right. And when we feel unsafe, it's really hard to have great sex. Truly the sex that's the fulfilling sex that we're gonna remember. But then I'm also thinking about whenever I ask people

the most memorable sex they had, this might be another buzzkill, they often say, oh, that time where I didn't think it was gonna happen, or I met this stranger on the beach, or I was on vacation. But then I always think like, that probably was the most memorable, but was it really like the most pleasurable for both of you? Like I think most people,

it probably wasn't the most pleasurable, it was just memorable because it was like, it had the thrill to it or it had the unknown. But truly, like the depth of connection and this kind of sex you could have in a safe container and a safe relationship is really, I think what we all want. Okay, I've asked you the quickie questions

we ask all of our guests. Real quickie, you ready? Okay, quickie. Biggest turn on. Like deep connective intimacy. Biggest turn off? Cigarettes. I don't like the smell of cigarettes. Is that, yeah.

Like during sex? Oh God, it's the worst. What makes good sex? Safety, like trust. Something you would tell your younger self about sex and relationships. Oh, and mystery. I think sex is important to have mystery.

Younger self, to pay attention to the physiological, that my penis didn't want me to put myself where my heart couldn't be. What's the number one thing you wish everyone knew about sex? I mean, how powerful it is when the conversations can openly happen about it. Like what you facilitate, I think,

is probably the most important part of it. Thank you. Thank you, Mark Groves. Tell us everything. Where can people find you, follow you? You can find me at Create the Love on Instagram, my podcast, Mark Groves' podcast, which you were recently on,

and my book, Liberated Love, that I wrote with my wife, which is at liberated-love.com. Congratulations on that. Thank you so much for this. Thanks so much for having me. That's it for today's episode. See you on Tuesday. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily.

Be sure to like, subscribe, and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner. You can find me on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Sex with Emily. Oh, I've been told I give really good email. So sign up at SexWithEmily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. If you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating, or relationships, call my hotline 559-TALK-SEX.

That's 559-825-5739. Or go to SexWithEmily.com slash ask Emily. Was it good for you? Email me, feedback at SexWithEmily.com.