Sex With Emily - Dildos & Vibrators & Butt Plugs, Oh My! with Zoë Ligon

Episode Date: April 3, 2018

On today’s show, Emily’s joined by Detroit-based sex educator Zoë Ligon to talk about how to prioritize your pleasure and step away from “goal” oriented sex, because hey – it’s not just about orgasms.   They explain the important distinction between dildos and vibrators (not that you have to choose), giving you creative, mind-blowing ways to incorporate sex toys into the bedroom and why stocking up on good lube makes sex so much better. Plus, they give you tips for choosing your first butt plug and finding your zen when rocking “woman on top.” Thank you for supporting our sponsors who help keep the show FREE: JO Stimulants, Womanizer, Adam & Eve, Apex Find Zoë Ligon on social: Instagram Twitter Spectrum Boutique Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. On today's show, I'm hosting Zoe Ligon, a Detroit-based sex educator. We talk about how to prioritize your pleasure and step away from goal-oriented sex. Because, you know, it's not all about orgasms. We explain the important distinction between dildos and vibrators. Not that you have to choose. And creative, mind-blowing ways to incorporate sex toys. The positive side of porn.

Why stocking up on good lube makes sex so much better. Tips for choosing your first butt plug. Plus, finding your zen when rocking woman on top. All this and more. Tips for choosing your first butt plug, plus finding your zen when rocking woman on top. All this and more. Thanks for listening. Institutions, bedroom eyes, they call them in a bygone day. Hey, Emily, you got a boyfriend? Because my man E here, he just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute. A girl's got to have her standard. Oh, my.

Do women know about shrinkage? Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean, like laundry? It shrinks? Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh, my God, I feel so good. Being bad feels pretty good.

You know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with. You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information, check out sexwithemily.com. Because it's awesome, and Jamie's in charge of it, and she can tell you all about what's happening there, all the fun things on our site right now. What are your favorite blogs this week, Jamie?

Right now, we got a couple Ask Emily's on here, which are always good because of course, we love listening to Emily read them on the podcast, but we do get a lot in the inbox that we can't always get to. So we put some on the site and that's always fun. So this one is Ask Emily, how to fix my literal

dry spell because a lot of people assume that if you're wet you're good to go and if you're not you're not aroused but that's not always the case so not true right wetness is not an indicator of arousal so there are yeah not always but there are ways to fix that with lube and with other things so you can go on the site and look at that there's also a cool one about modern dating oh i love modern dating yes and about how there's just too many options to settle down and there's some good things with that and some bad things with that and just some things that are things i think but it's interesting to see how dating has changed because of technology paradox ofadox of choice. Too many choices.

I know. But also people are like also thinking more thoroughly. I think that's good. I think that you need the experience of going out and dating people, not jumping right into relationships. People are just kind of trying to figure out the right kind of relationships that they want. But I think better take time dating than to jump into something that just doesn't work for you.

Exactly. So also you guys, you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. I love our new newsletter format. It's a good time, right, Jayme? Oh, it is. No, it's super fun. It looks cooler. It looks more colorful and hip.

Easy to read. Easy to read. Which I like. We all know that we get flooded in our inbox of different newsletters and things. However, this one, I do think it's fun and it's easy to navigate. Right. And then, you know,

like every week you're not going to miss any cool stuff happening on sex with Emily. And you can also join us on social media. It's all at sex with Emily on Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, and Twitter. Cause that's fun.

And also sex hack videos. We've been doing a bunch of sex hacks videos. Jamie's been editing them, shooting them. She's amazing. Check them all out everywhere. Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube amazing. Check them all out everywhere. Instagram, Facebook,

Twitter, YouTube. The full versions are on YouTube. If you guys haven't been to the YouTube page in a while, we have been adding to it. It's super fun. It's youtube.com slash sex with Emily. And that's how you get the full video.

Like on Instagram, you only get a minute. Right. We give you a minute teaser, but YouTube's a whole thing. We've had our channel for a while, but we are putting new energy and life into it so subscribe oh so yeah so subscribe to our channel definitely should we talk about our march april contest i think you should tell everyone about it oh yes because it's almost over um so it is called the o's of march

contest although we did give you until april 10th because we know that sometimes it's hard to think of something and you're like oh crap there was this contest i really wanted to enter but march is over nope we got we got some extra time for you so you know those those oh moments those moments where like oh like oh my god that makes so much sense why wasn't i doing this before why did no one tell me about this? You know those moments. Yes. Have them in your sex and dating life, all aspects of your life. But we want to know what's going down with your oh moments in the bedroom.

So maybe you were like, oh, that's an erogenous zone? Like, what the hell? Since when? Since when is my forearm an erogenous zone? Exactly. Because it changes. It does change. It does change. does change we've never discovered them right maybe like oh my god sex toys not just for women no not just for

vaginas not just for vaginas oh my god um so we want to hear those moments you can email feedback at sex with emily with the subject title o's of March or Aha Moment. Either one, we will figure it out by April 10th, and we will give you a super awesome prize. That's right. Thanks, Jane. Zoe Ligon is awesome. She's here. She's a Detroit-based sex educator.

We've talked a lot about Detroit. Journalist and artist. And she is the proprietor of a progressive online store, Toy Emporium Spectrum Boutique. And you're just awesome. You're an artist. You're a writer. You're a creator.

You're on this journey of being a sexologist, teacher. It seems like you're doing so many interesting things right now. So I, we met in the bathroom. Yes, we did. As many women do. There's many a friendship and many great conversations that happen in women's bathrooms. But it was a bathroom at a sex toy expo is the added context.

Right. It wasn't like that at a bar. Yeah. You were like looking at floggers and paddles. Right. I remember I saw you in the sports sheets booth. You did. Was that Emily over there in the sports sheets booth?

I was hoping she'd flog me with their new, what's the new line called? Their new S&M enchanted collection. But no, we met in the bathroom over lipstick. But we were talking. Yeah, I loved you. I adored you.

I'm like, oh my God, you're doing sex. You're in Detroit. Tell me how you got into this whole sex world. What was your pull? The art actually is what got me into it. I was making collages as a teenager because I didn't have any other artistic talent and wanted to make visual art so badly. So I was I was like oh I can chop up and remix other images and as I turned 18 19 I started

coming across more like pin-up-y and then like eventually led to smut mags and like a little bit more like amateur photo shoots and I started really enjoying what I could do with images that were very much shot from the male gaze. But when I was able to remix them and kind of like put them into my own, whatever I thought was aesthetically pleasing. I was never trying to like send a message, but people were like, oh, I love what you're doing, reclaiming bodies. And I'm like, yes, I guess I was inadvertently doing that.

And I was just like working at a bar, going to school, studying psychology. I went to Fordham in Manhattan. And somebody was like, you know, I sell sex toys. And if you make art with like nudity and stuff, you'd probably also like selling sex toys. And it just so happened that I became orgasmic through vibrators. I wasn't able to bring myself to orgasm through partnered sex or with my hands and discovering the magic wand specifically. Like I was like, oh, I'm a power queen. And like, yeah, humans don't vibrate. So I need this tool. So it was exciting and it was nice to get like the money on the side of going to school.

But it was really, I mean, I think you know how it can really quickly turn into therapy in a way too. And since I was studying psychology, I was like, wait, this is a niche that I love. So I had very similar experience in that I never had an orgasm until I, and I didn't even know what orgasm, I wasn't even trying to have one. I was like having bad sex. I said to my friends in Michigan, when I was 20 i was like okay so sex is you know i was having sex with my boyfriend like i did him for two years i'm like you guys just let me in on the big deal about sex because i don't really get it and they're like why aren't you having an org like

i'm like he's just coming in pounding away at me for like 20 years that's what they're taught to do yeah he didn't know and i was like it is about great it's like what about orgasm right what do you mean so i did so i learned through a toy too initially so now that you found toys are you able to orgasm without toys you know I definitely have I think about it as like it's if I really want to spend good or bad no totally because I we I love my toy that's interesting that you you ask that question because it has been a point of insecurity for me like oh like I'm not truly a woman if you can yeah it's like we're sold all these myths about what it means if you can or can't do you know have an orgasm without toys I have been able to have orgasms without toys they're just

so few and far between and at the end of the day I'm really just kind of craving the vibration it's such a specific sensation but I love that you are also a person like me that wasn't like masturbating all over the place as a six-year-old. Like I meet other sex educators and they're just like, I couldn't stop rubbing myself. And I'm like, well, isn't that dandy?

I wish I knew what that was like. This is what I say too. No, that's what I, exactly. I'm like, okay, I was not like six and riding a bike and all of a sudden I had an orgasm or taking a long shower or riding horse. I'm like, I rode horses. I took long showers. Like I never had the orgasm. So same thing. Yeah, it didn't even cross my mind. And I didn't grow up in a conservative household. Like I was always comfortable with my body and nudity and it just

wasn't on my radar. I do remember like realizing like oh like pressure on my clit feels good but then I just for some reason didn't explore it and maybe it just had to do with like I was an only child I didn't want to like I was like nah you know there's a lot going on too these days it's stressful when you're going I just think I just fell asleep at night because I was anxious like growing up with the household was rough you know what I mean like I was like I'm just going to bed but now exploring it so now you're like into this world

where you have like you know you're educating and you're inspiring so many people like young people it sounds like likewise oh yeah

well dude great but I love I love what you're doing yes baby we're doing it so I and we're going to be doing some videos which people should watch

in a little bit they're going to be all over but I want to know about about how since you have gotten to this world how your sex life has evolved and changed like partnered sex well and i just asked you to think about using toys or not because people always it just comes up lately because i love toys too and i'm always defending people i feel like for some people who have never used toys i think are like they're wrong i'm like they're just added, why just stick with this one? It's great if you can, but why not add different sensations?

But I'm wondering how, since you've gotten to this world, how your sex life and partnered sex has changed at all since you... Yeah, it's so funny because even since I started selling sex toys, it wasn't until the last year or so that I really was like, no, damn it, I need a vibrator during penetrative intercourse. And because I am a wand person, it's a larger vibrator. And one of the pluses of it is that you get to like have that ergonomic grip on it. So you can, you know, you're not going to slip out of your hand like a bullet. But it also, you know, you have to get into specific positions to angle it properly. And I definitely had partners who were maybe not intimidated, but were just like, this

is a little bit frustrating and it's not doing anything for me. So meh. And it's like, well, those aren't the partners I want to be with. Well, true. Leave them out. You want the guy who's like, that's so hot. Get your wand. Totally.

Let me charge your wand for you and make sure that that wand is charged so we have sex like that's the guy you want i'm so lazy i only use the plug-in ones because i can i'm just the laziest person do you have the rechargeable do okay good i'm a doxy wand person these days i switch them all out i have like every you do have every one i can't even teach i you know and i'm gonna admit this on my show right now, right here. I bet you can teach me some things about, you're the dildo duchess. I don't have, that's your surname, AKA. So I don't know what, I don't talk about dildos a bunch.

Seriously, I haven't used them. So can you tell me about, people even still don't know, a lot of people are like, what's the difference between a dildo and a vibrator? Yes. Well, it is so confusing because I'll have people be like i want a dildo and then through the course of our converse yes because there are vibrating dildos and then there are vibrators that are insertable or even look dildo like although a dildo can look like anything but the way i've categorized them and it's i literally like categorize products on my site and have to be

like okay what is this is it both is it one or the other I describe a vibrator as something whose primary function is vibration whereas a dildo's primary function is to be a insertable item right so I think a really interesting example of something right in between is like the fun factory big boss and fun factory makes a lot of insertable toys that have really direct vibration. So I categorize those as both usually. Yeah, you're right. Those ones, what are they? What was the one that?

The Astronix. The Astronix. Yeah, those are pulsators, but I still categorize them as vibrators since people don't have the terminology. I can like geek out on that. I totally, I totally, yeah, go. Okay, I get it.

But it's also like, if you have a dildo with like a bored out hole in the base for a bullet and yeah it vibrates but if you use it externally it's going to be so diffused through all the thick silicone that it's not going to be as direct so that's when i would categorize it as a dildo versus a vibrator i'm just curious about yeah like what bill do you use them do you use dildos a lot? Are you more of a barber? Well, it's funny too, because I am also a girth queen, which, you know, add that to the power queen and like, everyone's like, yikes.

I mean, not, not the people I want to be playing with, but it's like, we're taught all these myths and it's like, it's not any individual's fault if they're like, well, isn't a big dildo going to stretch you out? Like nobody tells you that the vaginal opening doesn't work that way. And it's true. Like if I'm using a really girthy dildo several days in a row, back to back, you know, I might notice that my body does adapt to that. But then I take like a day or two of a break and it doesn't feel like anything happened. It's temporary sensory perception that causes this myth of like oh and same things with vibrators like it's gonna desensitize you that bothers me no it's like

anything it's not gonna desensitize your it's going to it's like anything it's like i think about it like when you're working out like you can work out for when your body what is it when you plateau yeah exactly there you go longer lose weight if i just keep running so i'm going to cross train i think of mixing up your sex toys and your sex life like cross training for your sex life because you guys know who email me and you call into the show that your sex life has gotten boring at some point in your life that is all of us but everybody thinks they're the first one they're like oh my god i thought the world was flat and now it's not they're the first one. They're like, oh my God, I thought the world was flat. And now it's not. They're like, Emily, I've been listening to your show for a long time. I'm not sure I've heard this exact thing.

I've lived with my partner now for six months and we're no longer having sex. I'm like, that's all we talk about. So it happens. It gets boring. So why not look at it like a, I guess people are trying to poke holes in things that they're threatened by. So for example, don't poke holes in your toys or your condoms. But they're in the argument that toys are a threat to them and that toys are going to take over

there when really it's just adding some variety to your sex life. So I get that. But I like that you're just like addressing all these things because, and directly with people, and with guys you're dating. Let's go back to that. So you're like, so how do you check their girth ahead of time? Or do you just have a girthy toy just in case? Would you date a guy with not a lot of girth,

but you're like, dude, it's fine even if you're small. Well, yeah. Because I got a girthy dildo, yo. Yeah, exactly. And that's going to change everything. And I do find that it's like, yeah, I've never met a human who has the girth of the toys that I use. Oh, okay, right.

So it's not even like, yes, girth is lovely but it's also I do find that everybody has a special talent absolutely um and furthermore like after if my partner has an orgasm before I do I want them to be able to be like okay like I'm gonna like rub your arm while you play with yourself or like I'll manipulate the dildo on you while you hold the vibrator and just like changing that template and I think that porn has a lot to do with contributing

to like the flow that we're expected like it's blowjob vaginal intercourse anal intercourse and cumshot the end no

none of that I mean no but you're right I hate that it is so linear that's what we see in sex and that's why people don't know where're right. I hate that it is so linear. That's what we see in sex. And that's why people don't know where to go.

And I think of it like a dance. Totally. Like we have sex, like we, and then you pull out and then maybe you go down to me for a really long time. And then we bring in a toy and then we finish. We don't even have to orgasm now. And then you go back to it. Not being goal oriented is very important. Right.

Because then you just put a bunch of pressure on everybody involved. And if you don't meet those expectations, I mean mean you're just setting yourself up for potential disappointment right so I love that you're taking charge and that you're teaching this message online and with people you're dating so how do you because okay I don't know Michigan guys yeah oh yeah like I'm for sure I remember one of the first blogs I ever wrote which is a long time but it was like why high school sex still happens and I just thought all the sex I'm having with guys who have been out of high school for 15 years, 10 years, it's exactly the same because we don't change that much. We do the same things if no one ever wakes us up to other ways of having sex. What do guys need to learn right now?

I think it's always a learning curve. The first time you have sex with someone, I mean, sometimes it is mind blowing, but it just gets better. There's a very vast learning curve when you understand what kind of stimulation somebody wants. I find that my issue with people isn't usually with the mechanics and more so the mindset of, A, the fact that I'm a sex educator. What does it mean for them to be intimate with somebody who's basically putting softcore nude images of themselves on the internet all the time in Michigan you know oh my god if I never moved you're right that's more of what it is actually so that's the ethics stuff you're like the mental aspect of like okay you know we're not gonna have a relationship that fits into these heteronormative templates and exactly I do tend to lean monogamous on the spectrum of monogamous,

non-monogamous. I do like to have a primary partner, but sometimes they're like a side dish. And being able to find somebody who's okay with that and has a sex drive that compliments mine in that way has been a difficult search. I currently feel very satisfied with my partner back in Michigan. But. Hi, honey. Hi. But it's been really great. And I think that, you know, you say all the time communication is lubrication. And it's like, I don't care what your body is like or who you are or what you do.

If we can communicate, oh God, then it just fills in all those gaps. Do you bring that back early on in the, if you could like focus on and teach kids, because you're right what do you think that we need to i don't even know how it should be taught i've thought about this i don't think it's the school's fault i don't even think it's the parents fault because i don't think that kids even want to hear their parents talk about sex and in the schools they don't really so what

do you think you're hearing that people need to know right now like what are the questions you're getting asked well we're talking about this later on but I really think that porn is such a relevant subject. We can talk about it now. Simply because it does stand in for sex education. Kids are coming across porn before they're even at the age where comprehensive sex education would be introduced if it were to be in their school district. And without the added context of like, like this is a performance it is a fiction this is not the way that real intimacy goes down um without providing the context a lot of people are making really incorrect takeaways right and it's changing the way we're intimate

with each other and also i do think that some of us rely so heavily on the visual stimuli, which can be great and inspiration and an amazing part of our fantasies. But if we rely too heavily, like every time we masturbate, we look at porn. It's just like the toys. You mix up the toys, mix up porn, sometimes use your imagination. Because the brain is the biggest sex organ at the end of the day it still is i think communication is generally a really important thing and that obviously transcends into consent and the ways we communicate around all types of relationships not just sexual ones i think just being reassured that there's nothing wrong with you and you're not

broken if you feel a little bit different and if you are feeling vulnerable that's a great thing to look into and find the roots of maybe where that vulnerability is coming from because you might learn more about yourself vulnerability is so important i think that it's so hard though i mean to be actually vulnerable with another human what do you mean by informed intimacy oh where did i say that i don't know but i was like thinking we're talking about vulnerability and we're talking about intimacy like what does it mean to you i guess just like um what do i mean i don't know see who knows but that's what like what about we talk about being vulnerable what about being intimate and how do you think that

toys well this is where it was leading my part about maybe that's what you meant how do you think that using like toys and product like help couples with intimacy right well it's just like you're turning your hands into a swiss army knife essentially like you have so many things available to you and even just learning what you don't like is very informative and you're sometimes it just is truly the process of elimination i mean the first vibrator i've i ever got was like a super soft vibration. And I was just like, Oh, I guess vibrators aren't for me. This isn't doing it. And then I learned later on, like, no, girl, you got the softest, gentlest vibe. Not that those don't have a place in the

world. There's some people who are like, it's true. That's what you learn. Some people are really sensitive. Some people, you know, they want the harder thing, the bigger thing. So it's okay to explore. And that's the other thing is that i think the problem with porn or just life is that we're not taught to explore so had i just not taken into my own hands or never like i didn't have a a g-spot or didn't like know where that was until i used toys so i've assumed that it just wasn't there i think we make assumptions that this is how sex should be it only is missionary it's only like doggy stuff but i think that what i love about toys and bondage all this stuff that your sensation plays that you actually are making your sex life just much more expansive and you're learning so much about yourself and and then doing with a partner is very intimate and being like

what can we learn together so i guess i just i i hope like it sounds like the work that we're both everyone's doing in our industry is like, let's shed some of that. So you guys can actually, we're trying to help you, not take away. Why are you fighting with me about using, having to use a vibrator during sex when we're actually having sex? I'm pleased, you're pleased. And wait till I use a cock ring on you or penetrate you with this dildo and it's going to feel amazing on your prostate. How about that? So like, let's just try to shed all the uptightness.

You could do that in michigan right now i'm i'm trying i know and i think it's not just porn but everywhere but like they need it i get it i think that like mainstream media and uh just like like romantic comedies and movies that depict relationships are not only showing primarily like heteronormative relationships but monogamous relationships and i think that you know some of us are you know genuinely monogamous and some of us are more non-monogamous it's a spectrum like many things in sexuality but it's like not having the template to work with of like okay what comes now or like oh i'm meeting my partner's other partner what happens now you don't have a place to go for

that too there's not a lot of great models of it that it actually works people still doubt that that can actually work relationships that are open and you don't have to be just sign up blindly sign yeah i also want to see like tv and movies that are representing non-traditional relationships but the entire focus of the media isn't that it's non-monogamous like more just like yeah and they're non-monogamous as a as a side part and right and that's you just don't see that no you really don't see it and in fact i thought something was wrong for a long time i was just saying and now actually you know i've been in monogamy uh long-term relationships short-term you know serial monogamous but i i i

just really didn't have done everything open, closed, cheated, I just cheated a long time ago. The most serial monogamous to non-monogamous person. Cause I'll just be like, I'm non-monogamous. And then I'm like, Oh, I'm so in love with this new person. Let me just saddle up with them. Until I'm not. But it wasn't normal. Like we're talking like in Michigan, like 20 years ago. So I was like, but I always felt that something was wrong with me and now i realized that that it just was never interesting to me to be with one person and to keep moving but now i feel like i love that we just see people talking about it and that it actually works because monogamy does not work for everybody at all i think that there's like the folks in my community everybody not it works for many but

yeah and it's you never force yourself to do anything you don't feel comfortable with just like anal sex if you don't want to do like don't do something because somebody else is like we i'm really i really want to do this exactly like okay so do you get tons of questions about anal you know not so much these days actually but yes like it's definitely like a standard question i i get, but less so these days, honestly, maybe because I think that there's a little bit more information specifically about anal. Right.

Yeah, that's true. It's good in talking about lube too, because like while, yeah, while lube is great for everything, anal is like the, obviously the one thing where the butt doesn't self lubricate. You gotta have lube. Okay. We're going to take a quick break. Give a shout out to our sponsors.'t self lubricate. You gotta have lube. Okay. We're going to take a quick break. Give a shout out to our sponsors. Thanks for supporting them.

We'll be right back. I feel like lube was like my biggest thing. Like discovering lube for me. Cause I was going to ask you this too. That was like a huge game changer for me. It was for me as well. Right? Like just always like just always like like condom condom like they go together like if i go to the drugstore i'm buying condoms by late now that i buy the lube there because we were talking about in a meeting that no i wouldn't buy the drugstore but i just meant like i was

trying to make this example to somebody i'm like don't buy lube in the yeah think about it this way don't buy lube at the drugstore but if you go in for something it's better than nothing think of like you buy shampoo conditioner you buy them both together you right right think of it that way because it does enhance totally and honestly how hot is it when you go into like somebody's bedroom for the first time and they have their own bottle of lube and you're like oh you have the lube and it's a brand i like oh my goodness he's girthy let's see what a man would have to have for you he's a girthy i mean anything just be nice don't be toxically masculine no toxic masculinity and i'm sure we'll get along okay exactly well how often do you mean i'm sure yeah

it's my only requirement honestly at this point i'll take anything how do you feel about yeah no i know i um but you probably well it sounds like your ex you went through something did we talk about this on the air off the air by your ex honestly yeah it's it's okay I um I think it's just been it's been honestly so much of me discovering myself too and being able to ask for what I need because while I've definitely been with folks who didn't give me the opportunity to ask for what I need. Because while I've definitely been with folks who didn't give me the opportunity to ask for what I need, and I hold them accountable for that. But I know that on that same token, I, for a very long time, was not able to assert my needs. And I'm just so happy to be at a place

where maybe I'm not able to say everything I need, because maybe I'm still discovering things about myself but I just feel comfortable putting it out there and I think that I'm definitely a chronic over-apologizer sometimes slipping into that passive femme role that you know if you're socialized to be a woman in this society is very just programmed into you so I have this intense personality when i'm socializing but then when i'm intimate with people i really take the vaccine and i'm like what can i'm at such a bottom i'm in charge of every other part of my life like i'm more passive when it comes i mean i'm not passive i'm much more submissive i don't want to unless they want that but i'm just so tired like like i'm just busy in life and you want to just

no i don't want to say that i mean no i understand that that when you're a strong dominant woman who's running a business and running a life that it's nice to kind of have someone dominate be in charge but do you find you were saying that the men that you're dating kind of expect you to teach them in that role because you are a sex educator it becomes a thing you know okay one one person i was recently uh in a relationship with was aware of who i was as a sex educator when we got together and i was like oh great i'm not gonna have to explain myself to you you know about this oh they don't know but then when it came down to like my actual ideology

this person could not jam with that it's like i find a lot of men who like want strong women and strong personalities but then when they express their strong ideas it challenges their their worldview sometimes and obviously that's not all dudes but this particular person was just like i thought that you were just gonna be a chill sex babe you know and i was just like you're like there's nothing right there's this political too you know they don't really know this though like about sex positivity what that even means you're like i think that they would know that but um you you've also said like our sex negative society brain washes women i know you've talked a lot about this so can we talk about this for a

second what would you think about if you want to totally I do it's it's just a really intense subject matter especially in a post me too world where obviously this is all continuing to be part of the dialogue I hope it just continues to blossom into more conversation but I think that in the last year a lot of women have been recontextualizing situations that felt strange weird and now we have like new vocabulary and new light shed on these things and a lot of my previous partner I had three previous partners of mine outed in 2017 and just I wanted for me too yeah yeah um and it was really difficult because there was one outing that I chose to participate in because I did feel like I had been coerced into something but then the the other two men I I had consensual you know maybe there was like a blow up at the end

but it was consensual and and fine in the of me and them. But then I heard about all the other stuff they did to other people. And while I didn't have a story to add to that, I was in very close contact with the other women outing these people. And it was really a jarring month. I believe that was, when was that even? September. Yeah, it was like late last year. And I definitely went into a hole

of just realizing like, okay, like I'm very aware of the upsetting things. Yeah. I'm very aware of the upsetting things that, you know, may have happened in my past, but like, oh wow. There's so many times that there was consensual sex, but I just didn't think I could say no right yeah i didn't feel like i could say no or i was just like well it's easier to just go through with this than to cause a stir as a woman i don't want to buy me dinner right like those yeah you feel obligated to do things that it doesn't work like that it doesn't work like that no but that's what i love is that i and even you know so you're in your 20s so yeah i'm 25 right 25 right so it's like and i you know i've been going this forever that i love that it's just like i that's really not going to happen again we have to tell other

women they don't have to like i didn't know moving to san francisco when i was 22 and my first boss now that he was in it but there's been my whole life there was men it was inappropriate not like in the touching but just in the, I felt obligated or they had the power to make decisions around things. So I would have a lunch and they were flirty and it was,

but that's just how men were always were, you accepted it. And then there were also times where I'd go out with the guy a few times, I'd get back to his room or whatever it was,

his apartment, and I, and it was easier to stay. Like the whole Aziz and Sari thing brings it up. Like it might've been easier just to stay and have mediocre sex and then leave because it's harder to leave but now just to let women know and guys know that pay more attention in the moment to how you know if people could just be more present like what is you could tell if like you could probably tell if or maybe if they weren't so drunk that she wanted to leave like in

the aziz thing and maybe there were times that my body language was saying i wasn't comfortable but guys are just in this mindset of go go you know it's just we're not connecting and again it's like society doesn't give them the tools to do it's not their fault because i love men i love men and women and that's what you always get right like it's like oh you're a feminist so it means you hate men like no no and no like how many times do we have to say this we love men we want to be better we want them to be better versions it's just like i'm trying to be a better version of myself i was following along because i didn't know that it was okay to say say no it was normal i was normalized behavior that wasn't normal

and i think it's what really upsets me is is that men are robbed of the ability to have platonic intimacy with other men um you know without it meaning something else and i think that's why contact sports are so popular in our society um but i think it's also just like yeah like you are taught to be like to wear the crown and be this solid sturdy rock and like impenetrable force of you know and obviously that's a huge overgeneralization but then it literally it like it just sets you up for failure society sets all of us for all of us exactly it's to kind of relearn what we learned and it just breaks my heart because i'm like i do think that

there are are men who like need to like do better and they just are not trying but i think that there's so many men that really are like i'm doing the best i can and they just are not trying but i think that there's so many men that really are like i'm doing the best i can and it's still not enough what can i do right and like my heart really goes out to those people who are like i don't i don't i think most people are inherently good and i think oh you said your heart goes out to people who feel that way like or to people who like have just been like struggling but like just are never given the tools or opportunity to to be different right um i don't know like my dad was a bit of a womanizer and that was like an upsetting realization to have after my dad passed but i also was thinking about it and i was just like okay well

he he had a stepdad who treated him like crap and he got beat up by him and he was raised in the 19 he was born in 1939 your dad was right yeah and that doesn't make it okay that he was really problematic a lot of the time but i also have it's a contradiction no here's the thing you look at your parents like when we blame our parents for certain things that's what our job you guys on the planet is to work through childhood issues so as soon as you do that, you can blame your parents and be mad at them, but then you eventually realize

they did the best they could with the tools that they were given because they had parents who treated them in a certain way and that's why they act because that's what they were taught

and that's why they treat you the way they treated you. So whatever your issues are, so you have to forgive them and realize that we all came from somewhere and figuring that out and why we're here and working through them is the best work you can do so in a way i get it so that's where men so most men learn from their fathers i think so from their fathers or learn from the brothers and so it is very generational

too i think that some older men like definitely like the baby boomer generation were taught to be men in such different ways it's it's just there's been such different roles and like obviously things are slowly getting more you know even if it's not equal we're talking about it i mean and while it's been such an upsetting conversation but necessary i think that there really are men in my sphere at least who I think are just becoming more aware and more men who are like standing up and doing the explaining to other men so I don't have to for the millionth time as a victim explain to them why their actions are wrong you know right just like when like I think that like a white person calling out another white

person for being racist is like you you gotta just like call them out because it's like, like we can't just be silent. And it's the same. I mean, obviously racism and sexism are completely different things, but. Just call them out. Exactly. Like you need to be afraid to confront people right now. It's not the like the victim's job to educate you.

So, yeah. Yeah. I want to see more allies allies just be an ally and a friend you know i get it did you grow up in a religious my dad was an atheist and my mom was a jew so i was kind of an atheist jew growing up okay but uh i mean i actually minored in theology because i was so fascinated by the dynamics within religion that influence our brains and also sexuality yeah because we're hearing these so there's a lot of shame around sex because we're taught that it's actually wrong unless we're married or just to touch

ourselves yeah unless it's for procreation or to never touch ourselves right and then people still are you're gonna get pregnant I know I remember dating you know people who grew up in like yeah so you hear like every time you have sex you feel like you're gonna to get pregnant. I know I remember dating, you know, people who grew up and like, yeah, so you're here like every time you have sex, you feel like you're going to get the woman pregnant. You carry that kind of shame. It's hard for me. And tell me. I, let's see, I gained about 40 pounds

when I went to college. And I never like thought of myself as like, I never like even realized I was gaining weight until people started thinking I was pregnant and I was not pregnant because I carried all my weight in my butt and my stomach and I had people be like very earnestly like congratulations and I'm like what and it was just like getting to the point where like I had never seen myself as like you know heavier or whatever and I you know I thought I was beautiful and I was getting

laid real well. That's amazing. But you were just like, I'm my sexy self. You really didn't know, which I love. And then I was like, wait, people genuinely think I am pregnant. And it also made me realize, oh yeah, you never assume somebody is pregnant. Even if they look nine months pregnant,

you just don't assume anything. You wait until you have confirmation. Follow their cues. You're like, there's a reason and there's help. So what happened? I was also not taking care of myself. I didn't know how to cook for myself and I was not exercising. I was walking around New York,

but I wasn't exercising at all. And I'm so glad that I found different types of exercise that I love. I genuinely love going on runs and I found different types of exercise that I love. Like I genuinely love going, going on runs and I love like yoga. Of course I like rock climbing now. I love it. But it's like just as much for my,

yeah. Oh yeah. It's just as much for my mental health as it is for like, you know, body stuff. But I will say that when I, so I lost weight just by like eating better and like paying attention to it. And it's, it sucks on the one hand that I was like, well, I need to change this.

But at that point in time, in the context of how it was affecting my life, it did feel like a change I wanted to make. And I did so in what I think was a healthy way for me. But I realized that when I lost a little bit of weight, I actually felt more nitpicky about my body because i was even closer to this like standard of what beauty is although like it's all so subjective right exactly and like i don't i look at all shapes and sizes of body and i'm like this person is beautiful they're just being them and then why do you so beautiful beautiful is when you are being truly why don't

i see that beauty in myself oh because it's i've been taught to like not have any cellulite even though it's just kind of a fact of life at this point you know like cellulite yeah it's just it's a thing it's a thing get over it makes cellulite beautiful again and it's like i'm always gonna be a pear i'm not gonna be a stick and i shouldn't want to be something that i'm not right but you feel like you were being shamed people were saying stuff to you that you're pregnant so did you feel like this shame around your body did you feel yeah well and it was like weird but then I understand it was healthy though in a way it was I wasn't like crash dieting or anything I was just like literally just like moving my body a little bit more and and being mindful because I'm I love

food like I love like binge, I'm a binge eater. Not, like, in an unhealthy way. But, like, I can just, like, it's a really, like, beautiful hedonistic experience. Just like sex is. It's like, like, obviously everything in moderation. But there is something really beautiful about indulging. It's like an indulgent experience. But when I lost the weight, also also I was almost equally offended when people were

like oh you look so great now and I'm just like excuse me so I didn't look great exactly and it's also just like when somebody loses weight sometimes it's because they're grieving sometimes it's because they have an illness it's not a good thing necessarily don't say congratulations yeah I mean like I've totally made that mistake myself it's like and it's okay it's just like more like be be aware and um you know and your body i think it's really about confidence of what i love here i mean it understands like you had to you know you weren't being as healthy but also just you know i just hear from so many women who just are not that they do still feel like they have to meet this certain standard of beauty standard of

norm but just loving your body that you really still always felt beautiful and you are beautiful in any shape and form and you're like oh thank you i'm saying look how beautiful you are really in your body but i get it that i just want women and men to feel just we this and this is the thing that comes out in sex is i think people are having a lot of disconnected uninteresting sex because they're so obsessed with themselves and their bodies and men are worried about their penises and women are worried about how they look. And if people could just like in the moment be like, oh my God, we are fucking right now

and we attract each other and it's hot and all that stuff, just let it go away. That's how the confidence builds when you're like, I had amazing sex and I was not in my head and I was connected to my body and I know how it works and like pulled out a big vibrator

and didn't feel bad about it. I got what I needed. And like bodies are like, they can be like really gross but also like really beautiful in their grossness exactly yeah like i think funky body smells are delicious um my partner made like he like was like i read an article that if you bring a shirt that belongs to your partner and smells like them you'll feel like more relaxed and i have like flight anxiety so i was like huffing that shirt you know but i'm just like it smells like vo and i'm like i love this um yeah but it's also just like there's such a narrow frame of bodies depicted in mainstream porn too and i think that also does contribute to like the very narrow set of beauty standards

that like are like what vaginal lips are supposed to look like. And especially like, if you're not playing with people who have anatomy that resembles yours, like you don't understand the wide variety of how bodies look. And it's so funny because like, like I think that people are getting, I do know that people are having cosmetic that like vulva surgery and increasing numbers right now

which like really breaks my heart because I'm just like do you know how much like I think long vaginal lips are so beautiful and so are small ones and like dark like deep red light pink dark purple what like you know all wasn't even a thing, right? No. People, yeah. And like anal bleaching, like. Ouch. I know. It's all like just, if you, if you're, and that's, see, I feel the same. If I was with someone and he was like, um, I love anal sex, dude, it's amazing, but could we just go bleaching maybe on a Saturday and Sunday? You know, I'd be like, or let's say a guy said that to me.

Right, right. No, that's not my guy. Like, you're judging me on that level. Yeah. And I know that sounds sounds i don't know like look at me i'd probably be like off to the next anal bleacher if my boyfriend said that to me right now but i'm just saying because i love him i'm like if that's what you needed but in general if there was a group on i would do it i would come on the show and talk about it no yeah

it's like there's nothing inherently wrong with it it's just like where where is your intention with this i think that is it's a weird one right and everyone's body is different and beautiful so that is something with porn that i'm just like no just the more i'm telling you at the end of the day my best advice for everybody is to slow down to breathe and to just whatever it takes to really be in the moment and present and love your body when you're masturbating and you're with someone else so any kind of mindful masturbation practice mindful sex practice that you could have to get all these messages out of your head and connect and i'm so in my head so yeah no i am too like when i'm not having i mean

even during sex i am a lot but i try i've i keep my eyes so like i'll be like and i'm just trying to keep my eyes open sometimes because i like why What are you focused on when your eyes are closed? I don't know. I guess it just removes the added stimuli so I can focus on the physical sensations when my eyes are closed. See, that's okay. It's just like a reflex.

I mean, it's all okay. Yeah. Are you fantasizing? Are you focusing on pumping your... Yeah, I'm literally just like the minute sensations happening are what I'm trying to hone in on. That's the most important thing.

And that's another reason why I do love toys because it's just, well, for so many reasons, but it's the more you can pull yourself back into different sensations during sex, the easier it will be to stop the mind chatter. Oh, yeah. That mind chatter. Oh, shut up. Stop it. Thank you for being here, Zoe Ligon, helping me here answer these emails. Okay. This is from maddie

23 in missouri hi m oh it's like i know her hi maddie first off thank you for being such a reliable and trustworthy source for all my sex and relationship questions there's so much info available on the internet but i only feel safe using products that you recommend and trust i'm looking for my first butt plug and i really have my heart set on a jewel plug. They are just the cutest. I'm a newbie to butt play and I'm absolutely terrified the plug might get lost inside me. I've done my research and read the horror stories online. Is this more likely to happen with a jewel plug or why do they seem so hard to find? I also want to be able to have vaginal sex with this jeweled plug inside of my rear, i.e. i don't want to hold on to it during vaginal sex for fear of sucking it in what is a good plug that has a wide enough base where i feel absolutely

confident safe that it won't get lost inside me and we're gonna buy it whoo okay so thank you where you can buy it yeah i think i don't have i don't have jewel plugs but we got a bunch of flared base plugs flared base plugs what do you love honestly anything with a pointed tip will be a good toy it doesn't matter so much the diameter it really just depends on what your body is or isn't used to but if it has a pointed tip it's going to be so much more easy to insert than a blunt tip um and a flared base you shouldn't have to worry if it's if it's a flared base with the jewel i mean i think that they are, I mean, like what I think

that the person's talking about is it does have a flared base as far as I know because like the jewel's at the end and has got a really skinny neck and that should be fine. The truth of the matter is like anything

could get lost if you like really tried hard enough to push it inside your body. And there will be horror stories and there are people going to the emergency room every night for putting things in their butt. They they shouldn't it's got vacuum in there

that rectum is a vacuum pressure it's not like the vaginal canal which has a definite stopping point to it at the cervix right exactly honey you know yeah so that's the truth so i understand that um there's a lot of great ones what about the g pop and the g plug from ft london i think they're on our site. They're really cool. They look like the ice cream cone. Oh, swirly? Swirly.

And it's like, the vibrations are really cool. Oh, I have seen this. That is cool. Yeah, it's silicone. Yeah, point a tip. If it vibrates, that helps. Let's just give tips. Yeah, if it has vibration, that helps relax the sphincters but um go slow use a lot of lube and yes the vibration can feel very good to um work on the outside sphincter muscles relax

breathe the g plug five it's a little bigger yeah that looks like the shape of what i'm imagining the jewel plugs to look like but i think that you just got to play sweetie with a few and and the jeweled ones that I like were the um ones with the the tails on you go to the yeah what was it they got like hello kitty ones too they got a lot of stuff but I think they do I have a unicorn one oh the last thing that the person mentioned was having vaginal intercourse with the plug in and that is really awesome and especially if it's got like a more of a plump shape instead of like a smooth tapered shape it will create like i mean the the wall the lining between the vaginal and anal canal

is you know it's it's thick but yeah i mean like yeah exactly there you go so you're putting pressure on the g-spot as well like indirectly through that lining um i was gonna say it's not thick enough that you're gonna like break through it like because i've had people be like wait can i like break through because you talk about the membrane like what am i doing no but it is thin enough to feel thank you i'm word saladting now um but yeah it is cool and if it's a vibrating plug perhaps a little bit of vibration on the penis or the dildo or fingers or whatever it's just so good yeah just try it out you're absolutely right because a lot of women can have orgasms because of that well because of a lot of

reasons but if you don't know right if it's vibrating and it's the g-spot it's just trifecta all the things this is from rachel 21 wisconsin hello my name is rachel your podcast has truly made me so much more confident in my sexuality oh rachel love that i have two big things going on number one this is in all caps ready i can't orgasm for the life of me i've never had one and it has honestly been so frustrating i don't know what sex toys are best for this i was wondering if you had anything that would be helpful for me i feel like i've tried everything number two after having a sexually abusive boyfriend, my casual sex life has been struggling in one major way.

I don't feel comfortable being on top, and I honestly feel like I have no idea what I'm doing. I would love, love, love some tips about being on top. I would be happy to exchange tips and vibrators for baked goods. I'm a great baker. Oh, we're so answering your question, Rachel. You keep those baked goods, honey. but we're here to help you i'll take them okay so um just chocolate chips no nuts um so she's never had one we talked about this oh this

is a great question so yeah i get it which toys are best i would say a clitoral toy yeah something versatile that you even if you like different ways even if you don't plan on using it internally having the option can be a cool way so especially if you're like on a budget and you want to not buy a million different things what would you say something that has a like a slim internal shape like i like the picobong toys because they're not too expensive it's lalo's battery operated line or like the spockham toys are a pretty middle price point as well but something that can be inserted but also has direct vibration not diffused vibration right so i like the um i like the we vibe touch because oh because I know it's a saw Weevibe, but that one I can insert too.

Oh, good. It's my favorite because, I don't know, it just goes inside. If you need a little inside, it's got the tip, and the vibrations are, wherever you press it, the vibrations will go. And it's great for clitoral, but also your clitoral legs. It took me a long time to realize that the legs, the clitoral legs, there's the clitoris internally.

It's such a whole party going on that i didn't know about there wasn't any research on it until the 90s so is that why yeah for reals yeah it was well i'm so the internal structure was discovered in the 90s talked about in an articular way yeah we knew about a long time ago but it's so true that a lot of my magic happens with the vibrator on like my labia. Totally. Yeah. Labias. Labias.

I also love to recommend books when I mean, like I was it wasn't that long ago I was pre-orgasmic and I know you're like, yeah, Sex for One by Betty Dodson was a really helpful book for me because like I think that you can learn to become orgasmic with a partner or by yourself. You don't have to do it one way or the other but I think that the more you know about your own body the easier it is to give instruction to other people and I think that you know this is getting to part two but the more variety and ways you're able to stimulate yourself the more comfortable you'll feel in new situations and new positions like being like being on top

so getting comfortable i understand what you mean about being on top sometimes i can't and i'm not sure it sounds like more you're saying you don't know what you're like how to move right because i also think like first of all it's different for every woman how we move but i think like in porn you see it like you're going up and down right and for someone that can be amazing if you're having clitoral stimulation but to me that's never really yeah like really riding it and grinding on it and you gotta grind when you're on top like you have a little bit more control over what's happening not that the person lying down or you know on their back can't be active as well but like oh sexpert sexpert taomi who she has a really great twitter and youtube videos about

like riding specifically riding. Um, and she has like amazing videos where she's like, she's wearing clothes. And so it was like her like male demo bottom, but she's like, yeah. And I'm like, cause it's the grinding of the clip.

So I think like just experience, like you said, like knowing, right. We'll check out her, her videos. That's awesome. But I feel like the,

the back and forth, it's just different for every woman. So knowing how you, if you need more clitoral stimulation the grinding yeah moving in circles it's easy to use a vibrator when you're on top too because you have that like perpendicular or you know you can be lying you know parallel but you if you're if you're like sitting up more and you're holding a vibrator against your body it literally is just like direct access or hands or you know just anything i love that opening up exactly so i say practice doing your mindful masturbation and just get on top like everything with sex is about having the experience too so i getting past your fear

who's ever having sex with is so psyched that you're there and having sex with them they're not even thinking there's a right way to be on top because there is no right way so i want to say to you there rachel that you get to figure it out now. This is fun. So I love that you're having casual sex, exploring yourself, spending more time to get what you like. So I'm going to tell you is get on top. Use each casual sex partner as a opportunity to learn your body. So just think of it as like you're finding partners.

They're lucky to be with you. You get to get on top and just play around and figure out what feels good in the moment do what you want right so tips would be just do what you want play with yeah play with some if you're a book person do a book yeah or audible audible audible that book yeah audible you're right that is a great book uh sex for one yeah because it's not just like do this now do this i mean there are some instructive moments but it's also just like like reading betty dodson books i'm just like it's like my fun wacky aunt is telling me what to do right exactly no i love betty dodson that's great advice and my mom when i was not orgasmic i was like 20 and i said to my mom so yeah rachel you're

21 i was 20 my mom my mom bought me a book, Lonnie Barbeck, For Yourself. It's on my shelf over there. And told me I should smoke a joint. Oh, yeah. Good. But the books are great. Good advice. So I think it's education and experience are going to help you move things forward.

Rachel, let me know how it goes. I'm so glad you're listening to the show. And Zoe will take your cookies, your baked goods, and will send your address. So thank you. Okay, this was awesome. That's a wrap. This was so fun, Zoe. We have so much in common, honestly.

I know, I know. We gotta hang. Yeah, for real. We're gonna hang. I know, I have to go back to Michigan soon. Or you should just come here. So Zoe, how can people find you? I am Thongria on Twitter and Instagram.

Let's be thirsty. Oh, yeah. Thongria. Thongria. Yeah. And my store is Shop Spectrum Boutique on instagram and shop spectrum on twitter cool we'll have this all on our website too amazing thank you so much for being here thank you for having me me too that's great thanks me too in a good way yes hashtag me too but let's take me

too back for the yeah i know like you like lube i like lube me too yeah okay thanks everyone for listening i love you all. Thank you to everyone on my team. Thanks for subscribing and checking out the show on iTunes because that's awesome and reviewing the show. Was it good for you? Text ASKEMILY to 797979.