Sex With Emily - Influencers, Threesomes and Narcissism w/ Jenny Mollen

Episode Date: January 10, 2025

Jenny Mollen is the author of City of Likes, a fictional comedy about mommy influencer culture and the intensity of female friendships – especially when one of them is a narcissist. Are they obsessed with each other? Do they want to have sex with each other? And what do you do when someone’s perfectly-curated facade finally cracks?  Jenny and I met years ago, and I know you’ll love her just as much as I do. Besides being a bestselling author, she’s also an actor, a mom, and wife to actor Jason Biggs. In this episode, she talks about the personal experiences with social media that inspired her book, why she wants to see a sex therapist, and helps me answer your sex and relationship questions. For example, if you’re in a relationship, is it ok to comment on someone else’s Instagram telling them how attractive they are? Jenny and I give it to you straight. In this episode, you’ll learn: How to navigate the tricky relationship dynamics of long-term partnerships and social media. Why laughter and authenticity are key to maintaining intimacy over the years. The surprising connections between personal vulnerability, desire, and self-discovery. Show Notes: More Jenny Mollen: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Website Jenny Mollen's Books For their buy 1 get 1 50% off deal, head to 3DayBlinds.com/SWE.   Join the SmartSX Membership: Access exclusive sex coaching, live expert sessions, community building, and tools to enhance your pleasure and relationships with Dr. Emily Morse. Yes! No! Maybe? List & Other Sex With Emily Guides: Explore pleasure, deepen connections, and enhance intimacy using these Sex With Emily downloadable guides.  SHOP WITH EMILY! (free shipping on orders over $99) The only sex book you’ll ever need: Smart Sex: How to Boost Your Sex IQ and Own Your Pleasure Want more? Visit the Sex With Emily Website  Let’s get social: Instagram | X | Facebook | TikTok | Threads | YouTube Let’s text: Sign up here Want me to slide into your email inbox? Sign Up Here for sex tips on the regular. See the full show notes at sexwithemily.com

All your stalking stories are freaking hilarious. And that was back when you couldn't just stalk at home. Like on Instagram, you could find out everything now. Like you'd go out and do the work. Right? I would do it. I did it before you could just like easily like just cyber stalk somebody. I was in the flesh. You were stalking like real, weren't you like in a trunk?

Yeah, I was like in the butches. I was like in your, in your driveway with my lights out. You're like OG stalker. OG. You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. Jenny Mullen is the author of City of Likes,

a fictional comedy about mommy influencer culture and the intensity of female friendships, especially when one of them is a narcissist. Are they obsessed with each other? Do they want to have sex with each other? And what do you do when someone's perfectly curated facade finally cracks? Jenny and I met years ago,

and I know you'll love her just as much as I do. Besides being a best-selling author, she's also an actor, a mom, and wife to actor Jason Biggs. On this episode, she talks about the personal experiences with social media that inspired her book, why she wants to see a sex therapist, and helps me answer your sex and relationship questions. For example, if you're in a relationship, is it okay to comment on someone else's Instagram telling them how attractive they are? Jenny and I give it to you straight.

Please rate and review Sex with Emily wherever you listen to the show. Subscribe wherever you're listening. That really helps us. It just helps get the show out to more people and help everyone. People just like you. And you can find me at all social media, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, threads, X. It's all at Sex with Emily. Be sure to check out my new article, How to Sex Detox on our website, sexwithemily.com. All right, everyone, enjoy this episode. Enjoy this episode! Okay I've got something you're going to want to hear about.

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guarantee. So try it risk-free. So if you're ready to start your year off strong, literally just head to BathMateDirect.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com Jenny Mullen is a writer, actor, Instagram personality and New York Times bestselling author of the essay collections, I Like You Just the Way I Am and Live Fast, Die Hot. Named by Hoverdune Post as one of the funniest women on both Twitter and Instagram. Find more Jenny on Instagram at jennimullen, on Twitter at jennieanteats or on jennimolen.com. Let me just say, I've been a fan. I met you like years ago, you were on Love Line with Dr. Drew, you came in with your husband, Jason Biggs

and your book, I think you guys, maybe you were coming on for your book. I believe it just came out. Right? I like you just the way I am. And I was a guest co-host. So I didn't know, like I didn't get prepped ahead of time but I went home and I like devoured your book. And I loved it. And I

think you're such a hilarious, relatable, authentic writer and so talented. And then I am. Yeah. And I love you. I've been following you on Instagram. I just love all the things that you put out there. You're so real. Just like following you with like things that I'm like, I wish I could just go out with like my zip medicine and like everything in the back of my kids crying and vomiting and all the things. And it like, I wish I could just go out with like my zip medicine and like everything in the back of my kids crying and vomiting and all the things. And it just, you're just real and relatable and talented and all the things.

Thank you. Thank you. It's so nice. Yeah, truly. So thank you for being here on the show. I've only waited how many years to get on this show. I've worked, I mean, sex with Emily. I heard, I've heard about it.

I think that day when I met you. And I feel like I had another couple girlfriends do your show. And I kept thinking, I'm like, I've either done it or, but yeah, it was, we did talk. Yeah, you met me, but I've always wanted you to, ever since then, because, oh, here's what happened. So I know this is a little bit of old news or old story,

but you had just for Jason's birthday, hired a sex worker to have like a surprise threesome. So that was in the news. I was like, I love this girl that she did this. I know. And you were like, you were like the first person talking about vibrators and everything. Yeah. You were ahead of your time back then. Nobody was doing that. But now they're everywhere, right? You buy them at like Walgreens and stuff. Now like vibrators you could like pick up with a matcha latte at like any wellness studio. Exactly, so true.

But then it was like, yeah, it was much more taboo. You pioneered that shit. Yeah, it's been a long road. If you were here, I'd give you so many vibrators, but maybe you have vibrators. I don't know now, I don't know. I don't really have sex anymore. Once you like, I think have been married as long as I have, you're like, what?

How does that go over in your relationship? Thank God I'm not married to a guy that like that's his love language. So thank God, because if I were with a guy who was like, we need to have sex once a week, I would be flipping the fuck out. So, how often then? I mean, maybe once a month. And I'm proud of myself when I do. It's like going on the treadmill.

I was like, damn, I am amazing. I killed it today. Okay, we'll get into that because it's like, one of the top questions that people ask me all the time is like, how many times a week should we have sex? What's normal? Is this okay? Is that okay?

Once a week, three times a month, three times a year. And I always think if you're both okay with once a month then like if there's a month. Once a month even is like, I'm like, whoa. You're like. I rule. I made it within the month long period. Do you like a reminder?

Like reminder to have sex? I leave that in my calendar, but I'm also bad at tracking my period. Do you like a reminder, like reminder to have sex? I need that in my calendar, but I'm also bad at tracking my period. So who knows? I might be having sex once every three months. I don't even know. Well, as long as you're both okay with it, you've been together a long time.

And a girlfriend of mine yesterday actually was like, when do I get to the point where I don't have to have sex once a week with this guy? Like, when is that? And I thought that was interesting. I was like, well, I don't know. I mean, I just got lucky that I'm on the same page with somebody because I can imagine, I don't know.

Maybe if I married a Scorpio, it would be different. What is he? I know you're a Gemini too. He's a Taurus. Okay. He's very stable, can be stubborn, but very grounding. He ground you. Yes. He's like the Ethel to my Lucy. He ground you. Yes.

He's like the apple to my Lucy. He's not really Desi, he's more apple, but he does hold the string to my kite. Oh, I love that. You've been through a lot because I've actually been doing a lot of like, you know, like I said, I've been following you and researching and all the things,

but also just enlisting you talk about it. What I've heard you say about your relationship is, and we can get back to the sex thing, because people know how I feel that like, I do think intimacy is important in a relationship to make sure you're connecting and you're intimate. I think I do want to like see maybe like a sex therapist at some point to talk about it because I don't think that I'm good with that kind of vulnerability or intimacy. I told Jason recently, I had Gabby Bernstein on my podcast and afterwards I was like, maybe I was molested as a child. I don't know if that's true, or I'm just

stealing her story. But I'm just like, so because because I have issues with I don't want to be touched. Oh, okay. It's not my love language. I mean, I will get into it. It's not my go to and so I'm sure there's other shit there. I also had a very sexualized mother who was like always in a Tadashi dress and going to a happy hour with some guy somewhere. I mean, it's all related.

It can be. So does the thing of you not wanting touch, because you are seeing a sex therapist right now in this moment. Yes. I know, finally. I mean, I manifested this. You did, you did manifest. No, but it's- Yes. I mean, I manifested this. You did.

You did manifest. No, but I'm curious, like, is it something about when you're actually having sex, are you okay with the touch and the connection? Are you like- No, then I'm okay. I don't want to like stare into anybody's eyes, but- Intimacy. It's intimacy.

Yes. Perhaps that's harder for you being intimate. Yes. And you're so funny and relatable and all those things that maybe that's probably humor has been used. I think that's our defense mechanism probably for not wanting to actually be intimate with anyone. But that's why having kids was a real mind fog

because you can't help it. You're instantly vulnerable in a way that you've never been vulnerable. And now I'm suddenly in a relationship with the type of guy that I would have never gone for because they play games, they toy with my emotions, they don't give me what I want. So all the things that I tell my girlfriends to steer clear of, now I'm living with my two sons.

Your sons and you birthed them, they came out of your body. These are your sons. Yes. But going back to the touch thing, is Jason's love language, does it his happened to be touch? I don't know. I mean, I think it's probably acts of service and validation, praise.

Words of affirmation. I think he likes to be touched. I just think he probably, you know, sometimes he does say, he's like, you never like even think to put your hand on my shoulder. So I do need to work on it. Yeah, maybe. I mean, how are you with your kids? I'm super physical with them.

Okay. Yeah, I smash their faces. I wanna just eat them. Yeah, it's the best. Yeah. I mean, I feel like nothing's really a problem until it's a problem, but I also like a seeker like you,

been in therapy since I was like 10. I wanna overturn every rock, every stone. What is the issues that we can get into? So first off for me, my love language is touch, but if it's not yours and it's not Jason's and he's not like, why aren't you touching me more? It is something to, if it's not a problem and you are having sex, there probably is something there that maybe when you were growing up, it wasn't okay or your primary caregivers, maybe seeing your mom. I think we tend to overreact or react to what we saw in the past with our parents

in the current moment. So maybe that was a thing, but it doesn't sound like it's coming up in a way that's a problem, but it's, I would just love you to feel more, I don't know, like the desire thing. So do you ever feel like you are in the mood? I wanna feel more, like I wanna get into that.

Yeah, I wish that I did have more of a desire to connect physically. That's why I think I should go to therapy, to sort of unearth like, why is that? Desire to connect sexually or desire to connect physically? Like it's all sort of related in a way. I think the touch thing comes along. Like what I'm more interested in is to think about, about like sexually when you guys first got together at the beginning,

which we know the honeymoon phase, everything's like always amazing at the beginning. But were you guys having sex a lot more often? Was it more? Yeah, probably. Yes. In the beginning. But there was also drugs. I mean, we were wild. We were so crazy. I got pregnant. We were on ecstasy. It was like a lot of things went down in the beginning, but then eventually we moved into the space where we just like to sit on the couch and eat pirate's booty and hate watch the bachelor. Which is also fun.

Also so intimate. Yeah. Do you ever feel any of the desire anymore in your body? Like, do you ever like masturbate or feel turned on by anything, other things besides? Yeah, yes, yes. But some more like when I'm having a hard time going to sleep, things like that, I'm like, oh, maybe I should masturbate to make myself like calm down or fall asleep. That works. It totally does work. How about intimacy beyond just like intercourse,

right? Which is what we, which I actually am trying to like take the focus off. We're also focused on like, well, we did it. We had penetrative sex and that's it. But that's for the majority, I don't know about you, for the majority of vulva owners, that's not how we're even gonna have the most pleasure. So it's through intimacy and connection. Like how often do you guys just, do you feel that you're just like holding hands, cuddling,

watching TV? Like is that- Yes. When we're away from our children, we're very physical and touchy and kind of huggy. And you know, I feel like we hold hands when we walk and that kind of thing. So I think children also change the dynamic where it's almost as if we're like on the same basketball team and I'm passing to him, he's passing to me. There isn't a lot of time for the intimacy when we're on in that way. Yeah. And you have young kids, right? How do you have any time for anything? That's the other thing.

It's that like you literally have no time. They're boys. I understand that. You have no time. But how is your relationship? Because I was listening to a show you did, you're like, Jason and I, we like text our couples therapist. You know, when we're like, so you have a therapist that you work with. Yeah. So we've been with since we first got together, Beth Becker in LA actually. Okay. She's fantastic.

If anybody needs a couple of therapists. What's her name? She's always like, why do you bring me up? Her name is Beth Becker. Okay. Beth Becker. there you go. And she's based in LA. She's like right, but her office is like off Beverly Glenn area.

You have the therapist that you go to like once a week? Well, when we're good, we're going once a week. And then sometimes what happens is we will be busy and miss a week and then think that we're killing it. We're like, well, we don't need therapy right now. We're just so strong as a couple. We've evolved and then inevitably something will happen. Usually something with the kids,

we're at each other's throats and it's like, why don't you call Beth Becker if you really want to talk to me about that? We triangulate her in that way and then she'll receive a text from one of us or both of us and we get back on the wagon. But that's super healthy, I think, that you have someone to talk to about it.

But if the sex is, I don't want to get into a sex. I don't know how couples do it without therapy. I really don't know how anybody stays together without therapy. It's a requirement. Well, tell me how it's worked for you. So this is what I always say, I'm a huge advocate of therapy, always. I'm like, I think every couple needs it right away

to communicate, to understand like everything in the relationship. Like when you get into arguments and all the things in life and you start to build a relationship with the therapist over time and with each other and you've homework and all the things. And so I think that's really healthy. But maybe you could talk about after 15 years, you've been it since the beginning. How would you describe how therapy has helped your relationship? Well, it's shifted my perspective. I mean, I used to think that I couldn't be wrong or that my reality was correct. And that's what's so insane is that the way you perceive something being done to

you doesn't mean that it's actually happening to you at all. And we sit there and say, oh, my God, you know, you put the narrative on them of like it's triggered your own childhood shit., you know, you put the narrative on them of like, it's triggered your own childhood shit. So you feel like you can finish the end of the sentence before you've even listened to them. And you're reacting to things that, you know, it's almost it's that AA saying, if it's hysterical, it's historical. So most often it isn't even about the person you're fighting with, but you're like ready to die on that mountain over something like some perceived defense to you that probably has to do with your childhood shit, not even what's going on in the

moment with you and your partner. It took me a long time to realize that. Can you give an example of what's happened lately? It'll be something about Jason is away and I have the kids and he's working, you know, on a movie or something. And I'm stuck in Anguilla with food poisoning with the kids. They're raging. They're going crazy. I don't know what I'm going to do. How am I going to get home? I'm out of the country.

I can't move. And I'm upset with him because he either like isn't listening to me instead of saying, oh, Jenny, it must be so hard what you're going through. He's getting offended because he wants to be the good boy. So he has that stuff of like, mommy's mad at me and I need to defend because I've done nothing wrong. So he's shutting down when what I'm looking for is I need to be heard, I need to be seen, I feel abandoned.

It's triggering my abandonment shit. And by you pushing away and defending yourself, I'm feeling that injury over and over again. So we get into the same lock that we can't kind of break free of until somebody points it out to us. That's good, that's exactly it. We're all being re-triggered from our childhood. Re-triggered, yes!

Every moment, every moment, it's so true, abandonment. That's one of my key ones as well. If it's hysterical, it's historical, people. I love all the AA sayings. And I also love fear, false evidence, appearing real. So many great AA's. Yes, yes! So many great AA quotes.

What are the other ones I always quote? But that's it, because Jason's sober, right? Yeah, he's been sober now for, I mean, basically all of Sid's life. And that has been a, that's like played such a big role in, in our relationship. I mean, I can't even imagine co-parenting with somebody who had a problem and was still musing. That would be tricky. I don't know how people handle that either. What we often crave, right, in a new relationship or early on in the relationship is everything's new and exciting and it's novel.

And like, I've never seen this person naked. I've never kissed this person before. Like there's a new fantasy, there's something new but you're with someone for 15, 10, 15 years. And like, it's all kind of the same and you're in your routines. And so what we often need is that novel thing. And so you guys are kind of in your pattern.

So is there conversations you can have? Is there, you know, well, I was going back to the thing about your, the threesome that you had, now that that was a while ago before children, but was that something? And I know it ended up being like a joke, but there is something to that. Like even if it's just talking about the fantasy.

I kind of, again, I thought like, oh, this could be fun. This is something like, I was trying to be wild and fun because we had just gotten married and that sort of, there is a bit of like, just like an erasure of self, like in getting married and having babies, like for women. And I felt like I wanted to still be me and my crazy Jenny and fun. And I thought, well, this is something that

might spice it up and make it interesting. And then it became just like a comedy of errors. Right? But. So it wasn't like a fantasy of you guys, you guys aren't like, oh, I really wanna, that's not like a lingering thing that you'd wanna have a threesome

or have someone else in the relationship. Right now we're just trying to have you guys have sex, right? No. It feels like a lot of work now. Like if there was somebody else involved, even I think about people who are having affairs and I think, Jesus, that sounds like a lot of fucking work. If somebody else needed anything from me right now,

I'm like, listen, I've got two kids. I work full time. I really do. I think it's also good. If you, yeah, I feel like- You want me to go down on you too? I'm sorry, I'm tapped out. I don't want like another penis

that's making demands on my life. Literally, that's the last thing you need. Penis or vagina, both. I'm like, guys, I don't have it in me. I'm done. Well, you guys seem really solid. Like even just watching where I see online and all the things, I mean, what I just love

is that you have a couch your own place and you work on it. So to me, that's where- And we're willing to do the work. I mean, that's the thing about Jason and I. And that's why I feel like I never get scared about our relationship, even though we've definitely been through dark times. I don't ever think that we're not going to make it because one, we're both

super determined when we put our minds to things we don't like to fail, but also we are willing to change. We're willing to do the work and change ourselves. We're not just expecting the other person to like clean up their act to fit into our schedules. So you keep making each other like the best versions of yourself throughout this. Yes. That's really what a healthy relationship is. I mean, it's hard. Like he drives me absolutely fucking crazy and I drive him crazy. So I don't want to like, you know, make it sound like it's easier than it actually is. It is really fucking hard, but we do love each other.

And I don't know. I just feel like I got lucky with who I chose on a lot of levels. And you were so young too, right? You guys met. Yes, I was so young. We were on drugs. We were like wild. But there's something about Jason that I just, I don't know, I just knew. I mean, to his core, I feel like he is my twin flame. We're so different, but we have so much of the same, our just like, our belief system is so similar.

And your values and all that. Our values. That must feel really good. Exactly. And that really helps you kind of flourish in your life and your career. And parents, that's always be worrying about is this gonna last, is it not?

Oh yeah, and he's so much better than me about like my career. I mean, the ego strength that this guy has is insane. I literally have made a career out of talking shit about him, stalking his ex-girlfriend, raging about the fact that he's famous and I'm not. And that was literally how I started my fucking writing career and he has done nothing but support me

every step of the way. He shows up, he'll do like anything. He'll read my shit over and over again. He's just better than me. That is just so loving. Well, that is an ego thing, right? He's just very confident in who he is. He's just so confident. But Jenny, you come across as so confident too. I look at you and I'm like, I wish I could do it because I've been sort of off of social media a lot lately, like in my personal

life, just sort of been, I don't know, regrouping and less doing stuff like that. But I'm like, sometimes I just want to be like, this is what's going on in my life. Now that I'm saying I'm something other than I am to get to your book in a minute, City of Likes, which is all about like curating a certain image online. But I guess I look at you and think confidence I know is on a spectrum, but always, we're always changing, but very confident, like self-assured.

I mean, that's so sweet. I think the thing about me is that like, I don't feel, I don't have a button that like, I don't know how to hide my truth. I don't think I know how to sort of modulate what is happening, what I'm saying, what's coming out, what I'm presenting. I've always come from a place of like, we're all fucked up.

And I don't know if you feel that way too, having been in therapy since you were a kid. I just feel like everyone's family is dysfunctional. Everyone has these things. So talking about them, why should I feel shame? I feel almost when I'm open about that stuff, I'm able to disarm people. And then when I was younger, I was talking, I did this podcast with busy Phillips, who she was my like arch rival in high school. I mean, we were pitted against each other for many years in our lives have woven in and out of each other's forever. And she said, I always looked at you and thought of you as being so perfect and that your life must be this and you must be that.

And for me, I think that also my like brutal honesty growing up was my way of saying, I'm not fucking together. My shit is crazy. My parents have been married and divorced six times, but like you just seem like this like innocent little blonde girl and people think, oh, her life's so easy. You know, her dad paid for college, whatever it is. And I just, I needed to like really make, make sure that it was clear that like I am other from

like that. I didn't want to be lumped into that. I need to everyone to know that like I am the Grendel figure of like Tribeca. Like I'm not those moms. I'm not fucking pulling it all off. I don't know. It's just a need to really disclose my truth in order to feel accepted. After the break, Jenny and I answered email from Natalie, who's wondering if she should read into her partner's social media use.

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Just head over to 3dayblinds.com slash SWE. That's buy one get one free 50% off when you head over to the number three, dayblinds.com slash SWE. I would love you to help me answer some questions that we get from listeners on some tips. Yes. I'd love to get your advice. Help us along here. We get a lot of questions. So I thought some of these would be fun for us to answer.

Okay? Great. This is from Natalie 31 in San Francisco. Hey, Dr. Emily, dating during social media era isn't easy. I've been with my boyfriend for almost a year and we have a pretty good relationship despite Instagram. Recently I found he commented on a girl's post that she was still pretty AF despite a horrible event that left her toothless.

He has liked a few other posts of her and she's a pretty girl. There are so many beautiful women so I can't blame him for feeling the need to look at them or follow them. Women are very beautiful and are overly sexualized which is not his fault and for men it can be hard not to be curious. I want to know should I stay calm as long as he's not physically cheating. I know it's unrealistic sometimes for individuals not to be curious or flirt. I think that personally,

this is gonna happen with Instagram. Your partner's gonna comment on something and you gotta talk to them about it and just say, this is how it makes me feel. We're in a committed relationship. When I see you commenting, it doesn't feel right, kind of hurts. This is what it makes me feel

and I don't think that's your intention. Could you tell me more about what goes on in your head when you're making these comments? What comes up for you, Jenny? I would flip the fuck out. I would be like, listen, you're done. You're done. You're commenting on other people's pages.

I can't be with you. I would just be like, think about like how like that one like looks for me. That's just like mortifying. I don't want somebody that I'm in a relationship with to be like, you're so pretty as AF to somebody else. I'd be like, okay That's intense. Well, you're fucking roll, dude You know, I just too much. It's just not a good look. It wasn't just like a like it was a you're still yeah

That's over the yeah, that is over the top. No, that's a good point. So you just address it right away Yes, I think she's being too kind to him. I think you're right now that looking bad. I'm like, yeah Well, I feel like at one point I went on Jason's Instagram and I was like, you don't need to be following this person. You know, like he wasn't even around, but I was just going through the people he follows and deleting. I don't even know who knows to be honest.

He doesn't know how to use it that well. So, you know what? He hasn't missed them. So I think I made the right choice. But how has it impacted your relationship social media? Has it, you know what? He hasn't missed them, so I think I made the right choice. But how has it impacted your relationship social media? Has it or does it? Oh yeah, I mean, it has for sure. You know, I was calling him Jaden on my Instagram

for a while and he didn't like it. He was like, it's rude to me. It's disrespectful. How do you not see that? And so certain things he gets upset because he'll think that I've just crossed a line. But you know what? Jason's tolerance is so high.

He has let me publish two books where I basically talk all about my obsession with his ex-girlfriend and with using a fake identity to befriend her. I mean, he has put up with so many shenanigans and lets me get away with murder, to be honest. So when he has a problem with something, I slow my roll because it's just rare. All your stalking stories are freaking hilarious.

And that was back when you couldn't just stalk at home. Like on Instagram, you could find out everything. Now like you'd go out and do the work. Like. Right, I would do it. I did it before you could just like easily like just cyber stalk somebody. I was in the flesh.

You were stalking like real, weren't you like in a trunk? Yeah, I was like in the butches. I was like in your fucking driveway with my lights out. You're like OG stalker. OG, yes. My head goes off to you, cause like really like that, now we just, we're just lazy. We're just like, we're not doing the work. just hodling. We're not doing the work.

We're really not. We're not doing the work at all. And so like, oh my God, daddy, that's, I love it. You just call it out. Yep. That is cool. I think you gotta just call it out, call out your partner, unfollow if it's not cool,

and like let your partner know how you feel. Cause would you be cool if somebody, if your boyfriend said that to a girl right in front of you? No, you'd probably like throw a drink on him. That's a really great analogy to think like, would you do that if we were at a party? Would you go up and say, she's still hot as F? Would you do that?

Yeah, exactly. You probably would. Exactly. That's a way to think about it. Okay, I love that. Okay, this is from Terry53, it's a man. He says this, Dr. Emily, my girlfriend, I've been together for two and a half years. We have a strong connection.

We love each other, but it's been tough for 12 plus months. My dad died a year ago and I fell apart leaning on her too hard for too long. In January, she was struggling with demanding work, kids, and their activities and asked me to get my shit together, which I've been actively doing. Therapy, working out, reading, journaling. Our sex life dropped off at that point and has not fully recovered. Over the past two months, I've done a lot of work and feel much better. My girlfriend is still struggling, has admitted that she feels overwhelmed and burned out and there's nothing left for herself or me. Here's the question. I know she will masturbate

sometimes rather than have sex. She doesn't throw it in my face but I feel jealous. I've asked her tell me about it because it turns me on. Hell, I masturbate too, and I'd love to do it in front of her. Should I feel jealous or rejected when she uses her vibe rather than waiting to have, wanting to have sex? I'm assuming it's her way of self care. What do you think? I mean, I would say no.

I definitely think there are two different things. One is self care, and then the other is intimacy. We're circling back to the beginning of our session. I mean, yeah, I think one is, you know, she's doing it to come down and to have like a moment for herself. And the other is a bit more performative and making more of an effort for him.

So I think they're totally two different things. I get that he wants that connection with her and I think it's sweet, but I actually think that he should just honor her time for herself as well. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, here's the thing, you guys, you know, listening to the show,

like masturbation is part of being sexually healthy and well and it probably is self-soothing. It's making her feel connected to herself. We all probably could masturbate a lot more. So I feel like, sounds like he feels like he pushed her away because of the death and everything he's going through. So he just needs to find a way to connect with her again intimately. And what I would recommend here is like, what about some, you know, mutual masturbation, which I might recommend for you too, Jenny, because- Interesting. Okay.

Mutual masturbation, which people are like, oh, that's weird. I don't want to see my partner masturbate. But here's why it works and it can be hot. It's because you know that you're both going to get off. You don't have to touch anyone else but yourself, which you might like. But also it's like hot to watch your partner please themselves, but also you know it's a sure thing, but you also kind of see what they do. And you might know this because you've been with Jason for a long time.

For me, when I'm with a new partner, I'm like, oh, I didn't know that your hand goes up and over the tip like that. So now I'm getting a blowjob. Right, educational. It's educational. I'm like, oh, you grab your balls. Well, clearly I'll grab your balls the next time I give you a blowjob. So you learn from it and it's still intimate and you're both having an orgasm.

Yeah, I like that. That's sweet. Yeah, it like that. That's sweet. Yeah, it is sweet and also sex begets sex. So the other thing I would say- That's true, I agree with you. Even though it's my job, if I don't have sex or I don't masturbate, sometimes I don't care either. It doesn't hit us over the head.

And it's when we think it should be this spontaneous desire, like I should just want sex. And the fact that I don't want sex means something's wrong with me. But the thing is we have to work at it, especially like, and I would say the older we get, but I used to always say that, but the truth is I hear from women in their twenties who are like, I've been my partner for three years and I don't care if we ever have sex again. Yes, exactly.

Yeah. Right? Or we're on medication or birth control or there's all these things that dampen our arousal and our desire. So what I think is really cool is to think about is sex important? Is it important to be aroused? Is it important to have orgasms?

Yes, I love my partner. So to put things in place, like saying, let's just masturbate together, you know what's gonna happen, it's an intimate thing, and the more you have an orgasm, you're like, oh yeah, orgasm, I kinda like that. And so I find- Yeah, oh, that was fun.

Yeah, I forget too since my job. And I'm like, oh yeah, orgasm. I kind of like that. And so like, I find it's- Oh, that was fun. Yeah. I forget too, so it's my job. And I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I got to do that. And then I want more. It's like working out. Like if you don't work out for a while, and then you're like getting back to the gym the first time, it sucks.

Oh, oh my God. You're like, what's a sit-up? Right, exactly. And you're like, I did three sit-ups and it's great. But then with sex, it's kind of the same thing. Because then, and then the more time that goes by, it's harder to get back to the gym and it's harder to get back to sex. So true.

It's a muscle. So I recommend going back to Parder and you. It's something, you know, it's kind of fun to think like, talk to her and say, I think it's, let her think it's hot that she masturbates because you think it's hot. Terry, you do think it's hot. You said it was masturbate. You think it's hot that she masturbates because you think it's hot. Terry, you do think it's hot. You said it was masturbate. You think it's hot. And so rather than like, you know, just saying like, I would love to watch you masturbate,

let's do it together. And then that just breaks the whole thing that she's feeling bad about herself. Yes, I agree. You're feeling bad about it, threatened. Cool. Okay. Thanks. Let's talk about City of Likes for a minute.

Tell me about this because it is more about the mob influencer that you kind of got, that your character in the book gets into, but then also about, I love too, about narcissistic female relationships. I've never, narcissism is totally having a moment. Now everyone loves talking about narcissists, but about narcissists' friendships, I thought all of it was very interesting. It's great concepts that you're tackling. Well, you're going to love the book because if you know me, you're going to see me in it. You're going to be like, oh, I mean, it's a novel, but it is so Jenny.

And like, I mean, so many of the issues that I get into in it, it's just all of my darkest fears. It's like my most personal, vulnerable truths, things that like, I don't think I could have written this book as a memoir because I don't know one, I would have been afraid that I would have hurt my husband and my family with some of the things I disclosed. And two, I would have been driven out of New York City because of like the people that I'm going after and like kind of like skewering. So I knew it had to be fiction, but I didn't know how to write fiction. I didn't know what I was doing. I wrote the book. It took about a year to write it, took out the pitch. It didn't sell. I had to pull it off the market. I then had to go rewrite it. I took another year to rewrite it because I can't let something sit in the drawer. I'm just going to become psychotic. I do seem to be fueled by rejection in some weird fucked up way

where if somebody tells me no, or I can't have it, I feel like, oh, now the story's getting good. Like now here I am, the hero against insurmountable odds. Like this is the story that I want to tell. Like this is the story that I wanna see to fruition. So I just doubled down on that shit and it took it out a year later and still was not getting the kind of feedback I wanted because now at this point people are like, who wants a book about social media? That's terrible. And privileged women in lower Manhattan, I think going to publish it myself if I have to. This is my truth.

And this is the story that I really needed somebody to tell me to be perfectly honest. And that is what happened. I ended up finding a producer who had never published books before, who had an imprint. And he said, okay, let's do it. I believe in you. I don't I mean, Chicklet, I don't know, but I believe in you. Let's go for it. That's amazing.

Congratulations. Keep going for it. I love that determination. But tell me about the story though. So the story is about this young mom who moves to Manhattan. She's in the throes of postpartum. She's just had her second child. She doesn't know what she's going to do with her life.

She's debating, you know, how does she get back into the game? How does she find herself? How was she going to also be the mom she always wanted when she didn't have the mom she always wanted? So there's just a lot of doubt and a lot of insecurity. And she ends up meeting this hugely successful mommy influencer who kind of takes her under her wing and shows her Manhattan from like that point of view, where she's going to like weddings,

branded dog weddings and underground mommy supper clubs and fashion week, crazy, you know, Parisian vacations. And so her life gets turned upside down and she really gets like engulfed by this woman who is a narcissist. And the dynamic, it's like, I see it a lot in YA novels, these obsessive friendships, but I don't see it in adult women's fiction.

And I really wanted to talk about what happens when you fall under the spell of a narcissist, because nothing feels better than when they shine their light on you. You're like, I'm mommy's favorite. She chose me. I'm the one. And that just high is so addictive. But when the light goes out on you, when you stop feeding them, it's just like, you're completely, it's just eviscerating. It's just like, you're completely, it's just eviscerating. And so I've had those relationships and they've taken me out of my life and my relationship and my family.

And I've had to face a couple of things, like my addiction to this need for external validation and also my own codependency. And so I really wanted to talk about that in the book. I really wanted to get into what that is and like, do they want to fuck each other? Maybe that could be part of it. That could be, do they just want to be, you know, best friends? Do they want, what is it? But you almost don't know because like as women, we date each other. Do we even really know? You want to be them? You want to engulf them? You want to like

swallow that person whole. So the thing about the narcissist though, friendship is just, and narcissism in general. So let's just talk about that because I know you also said you're a narcissist's mother, I'm a narcissist's family, a lot of them. But with the friendships, it's like, how does that look and how can we avoid that? You said you cut it off because they say like you're cutting off the narcissistic supply when you stop giving it to them. But like, what did you learn from that?

Well, I still do it. And it's like, it's crazy because I've spent my life judging women who let men treat them like shit or who will jump through hoops for a man or you know, whatever it is. And I've always been so judgmental, like pull your life together. Why would you spend one second in that kind of a relationship? And it was almost like this, like stepping outside the matrix moment when I was at my book launch and I was kind of going off about this female friend

and my publicist looks at me and she's like, well, you'll be friends with her again. You'll do it again. We're gonna have the same conversation all over again. And I thought to myself, oh my God, I am that girl. I just do it with women. So I think I do have a pattern of it. And I've collected these narcissists.

I collect like mean mommy types because I want some desperately to like win my own mother over. I want to have this corrective experience. I'm seeking it out. This book is me sort of tackling that issue. But I can't, I couldn't possibly sit here and tell you that I'm healed. I just maybe have psychically killed these women

in my books. Do these women know who they are though? I know you said you'd have to move, but do they think they know who they are? No, I don't think so. I don't think narcissists see themselves, which is amazing, which makes them so fun to write. They're so fun. They just be so happy that they're even maybe in the book. Right. Because it's a classic. My mom's just like, don't believe everything you read.

Because your mom loves it. You're right. That's the thing. That is so, so interesting. They don't know. They don't really care. They don't really understand it. But it's like, I think it's just really healthy. Like you kind of working out yourself in the books and the codependency is another thing. How would you explain your codependency? So we try to talk about it. It's such a harder concept to,

cause there's a narcissist and the codependent. And I think we need more language around it too. Cause I think narcissism is also a spectrum. Well, my therapist always says, she's like, you're the least codependent codependent I've ever met because I never invested in Jason's drinking. I was like, kill yourself. I mean, if you're just gonna drink, like, I didn't like,

I didn't start making it about me or, you know, his drinking is hurting me. He just one day told me he wanted to be sober and I was like, okay. But I never attached to that in any way, which I don't know why, but Jason and I are both kind of co-dependence, which is interesting and is plays a really, it's a funny-

So there isn't really narcissism, which is co-dependence. I have that too. Oh my God, that's so funny. This is the relationship I'm in now. I hadn't really thought about that, but that's kind of what it is. Cause we're not, we're both, yeah,

a little bit co-dependent. How do you handle that? Well, I'm like, tell me about you. Don't tell me about me. Tell me about you. Talk about you right now. Don't talk about like, well, I'm not doing anything to you actually.

So like, that's a lot of our conversations when we're fighting. Seems like it's healthy. I like that. I mean, I'm sort of down with your whole thing. Do you enjoy this process of writing the book? I loved writing the book. I loved it.

When I was writing the book, I was like, this is what I was meant to do. Like, this is truly what I was meant to do. But I hated the math of trying to figure out how to write a novel. I went from writing nonfiction and short stories to writing a story that had to last 300 pages. That was tricky. It helped once I had an editor come in and say like, no, you need to like earn this decision. Because in memoir, you don't really have to earn your moves.

You're like, I went to Morocco to meet the women who wove the rug in my house, because I thought that they might have answers for me. You don't need to like earn that. You're just like, well, that's just Jenny being fucking Jenny. But in the novel, it's like, if a woman's like about to like cheat on her husband and like sleep with this other woman, you kind of have to earn that. I'm going to ask you, Jenny, next the five questions we ask all of our guests.

There are quickie questions. OK. Ready? Very quick. What's your biggest turn on? I think my biggest turn on is somebody who's like in control and can like get something done. Like I love a guy that speaks another language that I either speak or don't speak. I think it's so hot. I love feeling like, oh, he's got this handled. Biggest turn off. Cheap. When somebody is cheap.

So not hot. What makes good sex? Makes good sex. That is a good question. I don't actually know. No, what makes good sex? Honestly, like, usually, like, I would say like sex with somebody you don't know at all, like, like a stranger. Not that I've known I've had that in years. But I just remember, like like that was so exciting and fun because you like literally don't know the person.

I'm like, Jason, I wanna open a place where people just go in and have sex with robots. He's like, I think that's called prostitution. But doesn't it sound great? You have to have no emotional connection. You can just like hook up. Yes, that exists, robots, you know, sex workers. Yeah, because that's spontaneous. What I was saying earlier when I was trying to to therapy you, it know, sex workers. Yeah, because that's spontaneous.

What I was saying earlier, when I was trying to therapy you, it's that newness. That's why it's so hard at the beginning because spontaneous it's new, you don't know what's happening. It's new, but also I don't have to be like intimate. Like they don't know me. That's like why for me, it was always safer. This could be a hot thing

for you guys to fantasize about together. Okay. Not actually make it happen, but like watch porn together when that happens. That's true. When something happens. These are just the little sparks. Okay, something you would tell your younger self

about sex and relationships. I would say have more sex, like, and have more relationships. I think for so long, I thought, I'm not getting involved with this person, or like, because I only wanted to be involved with people that like I thought I could be in a real relationship with.

And so there were a lot of missed opportunities for me where if I were going back now, I'd be like, why didn't I just like fuck that guy or girl or whatever it was? Like, why did I, why was I like, I'm too good for this? You know? I wanna circle back to that a minute. What's the number one thing you wish

everyone knew about sex? I don't know. What, I don't know. I feel like there's so much for me to learn? I don't know. What, I don't know. I feel like there's so much for me to learn. I don't know, maybe learn, talk, communicate about it, talk about it, I think. Yeah. Got it. Can we go back to something you just said?

So what do you think kept you from just doing it then? Like in your, just having sex with someone? Because I like, you know, for me, I thought of sex in like sort of a negative way based on the fact that my mom was so sexualized and was constantly sleeping with people. And I just saw it like, I don't wanna be that. I don't wanna be her.

And I don't want to have a bunch of boyfriends or, you know, girlfriends, whatever it was. I don't want to be that promiscuous or that easy in a way. I looked down on her for giving herself over to people is how I saw it. I was like, ugh, I'll never be like that. And so I was sort of snobby in a weird way. And now I'm like, why didn't I just, I mean, for my own pleasure, why was I depriving myself?

Yeah. That's so interesting because the messages you got I just, I mean, for my own pleasure, why was I depriving myself? Yeah, that's so interesting. Cause the messages you got, well, I think going again, circling back this, the messages you got around sex were really confusing. And so by having your mom, she was so sexual in front of you. And since there was no sex education, no one was telling us about what it meant

to be sexually empowered or sex positive, or to that it was okay for women to have pleasure. And it was okay for us. Oh, right. Exactly. We grew up in a time where it was like that we couldn't ask for what we want, that it was more about the men asking us for it. Yes. And so it was a different time. Yes, it was all about the men. And I just like resented the men because they took my mom away from

me. So I was just like, fuck that. I just didn't want anything to do with it. And so you went the other direction, which it sounds to me like now that we're talking that there is probably a lot about your really early interpretations of sex in the home. That you just went the other direction. You're like, I'm not even going to be sexual. I'm not going to allow anyone to have me. I'm not going to be that. Yeah.

I don't know if you've ever done any stuff around that, but that is probably something that again, this stuff gets locked in at such a young age. It's locked in. I need to do the family systems therapy. Yes, that's such good stuff too. I love all of that. The family system is really interesting. So it sounds like maybe something got lodged in there that sort of not allowed you to really

feel the depths of your most sexual self because there's something that got linked in that was like, you can't be sexual. We all have those things. I'm like a kiddie pool with like sexuality. Exactly. Thank you, Jenny. Thank you for sharing all this. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad we finally got to do this. I know, me too. I'm really excited. Tell me where people can find you.

jennymolen on Instagram and the book is City of Likes. Thank you so much, Jenny. Thank you, Emily. Have a great day. Appreciate your time. Have a good night. Bye, you too, bye bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. all at Sex With Emily. Oh, and I've been told I give really good email. So sign up on SexWithEmily.com, and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure.

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