Sex With Emily - Underestimated: The Wisdom of Teenage Girls w/ Chelsey Goodan

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

Today, I had a candid conversation with Chelsey Goodan, also known as the Teenage Girl Whisperer, about empowering teenage girls in today's society. Chelsey shares her insights from working with teenage girls for over a decade and discusses the challenges they face regarding sexuality, self-expression, and societal expectations. Join us as we explore the power of communication, empowerment, and authenticity in supporting teenage girls on their journey to self-discovery and empowerment. In this episode you’ll also learn:  Effective communication strategies The power of radical honesty and authenticity in building relationships How to break cycles of criticism, self-doubt, and judgment Show Notes: Chelsey’s Book: Underestimated SHOP WITH EMILY! (free shipping on orders over $69) The only sex book you’ll ever need: Smart Sex: How to Boost Your Sex IQ and Own Your Pleasure Want more? Sex With Emily: Home Let’s get social: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | TikTok  Let’s text: Sign Up Here Want me to slide into your inbox? Sign Up Here for sex tips on the regular. See the full show notes at sexwithemily.com.

So a lot of people pleasing is about putting other people's needs before your own. And it's real subtle, even when a girl responds like it's fine, or women, you know, oh it's fine, it's fine. And it's not fine. It's not fine. Like I usually ask more questions and they tell me this horrible story and I have to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, it's not fine. You're listening to Sex With Emily.

I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. Today, I'm talking to Chelsea Gooden, who's got an important new book out, Underestimated, The Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls. And we're getting into what we can all learn from the lives of teenage girls.

And no matter what your gender, you'll learn that we all have an inner teenager inside of us who still might be running your life. You'll understand how they really feel about sex, social media, and why they wanna work crop tops without judgment. You'll also find out how to get teenagers to open up to you and share their intimate thoughts.

Together, we can all heal from the wisdom of teenage girls. Please rate and review Sex with Emily. Wherever you listen to the show, it really helps us get the show out to more people. It just takes you two seconds. You can do it right now. My two articles, how to have a threesome, and how to deal with a low sex drive

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discrete delivery. So whether you're looking to last longer or just add a little extra something, Promessant has got you covered. Remember, that's promesscent.com slash Emily. P-R-O-M-E-S-C-E-N-T.com slash Emily for 15% off. ["Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy"] Today, I'm so excited to talk to a woman who I like to refer as the Teenage Girl Whisper,

and she happens to be a dear friend. Chelsea Goodin has been an academic tutor, educating and empowering young teenage girls for over a decade, and her new book, Underestimated, The Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls, is already garnering major accolades. I think you will see a lot of yourselves through these girls' daily struggles and realize we could all work through self-doubt, shame, and people pleasing through some radical honesty and stepping into the power that this book encourages. Welcome Chelsea.

Thank you. I couldn't be happier to be here. I'm so glad you're here. So I went around in anticipation of our interview and I thought, what? Because I really want everyone to read this book, who has a teenage girl in their life, what I've always heard is that they just struggle. They're like, I can't get my daughter to talk to me, my niece won't open up, we'll talk with my neighbor.

There's all these tropes about teenage girls. And I said, but if you could, like, what do you want to know? They all said they needed to know, how do I get the teenage girls in my life to talk to me about things without shutting down? How do I get them to share more information? How do they have breakthrough conversations? How do we do that?

This is great. So this is the question for sure. And I would say, first of all, teenage girls feel judged about everything. And so often we're coming at them with advice and fixing or trying to teach them or protect them. And we're not actually listening to them first, letting her speak first.

And when she feels heard and respected in this way, this is when she starts opening up, when she doesn't feel judged. I have some really practical tips in the book that is as simple as phrasing everything as a question. So by doing this, this creates a feeling of respect that you actually care to understand where she's coming from and invite her input.

So it could be questions like, what are your thoughts on that? What do you think the solution is? How does that make you feel? What do you think about that? And those are the types of questions said with a non-judgmental, genuinely curious tone that is such a critical part of this and also with no secret agenda behind the words.

And then when she does share her thoughts, this is key and this is often a progression. This is not a zero to 10 situation. But when she does share her thoughts, even if it's a small thought at first, you affirm, affirm, affirm, affirm with specifics. You say, like, that was so smart. Oh, you know what?

I hadn't thought of it like that. Like I really, I really respect what your thoughts are on that because when she feels affirmed, she feels heard, she feels valued, she feels respected, and when she feels that way, that's when she really starts liking herself and liking you. And in general, a teenage girl is gonna like you and open up to you and connect with you if she likes the way that she sees herself through your eyes. if she likes the way that she sees herself through your eyes.

And that's because when she feels that value and not judgment, then that's when she steps into her own power and feeling of self-trust and all these good things come from that. I mean, that's so key because when in hearing that, it's like, we're doing it so wrong. Like most of us are like, how's school today? This is what you need to do. We jump in trying to fix.

So I think most people are kind of handling this in a way that's harmful and pushing the girls away, right? Yeah, and there's a lot of slapping positivity on stuff. Well, it's not that bad. Instead of actually holding space for a teenage girl's feelings. So that's another huge element is a teenage girl feels very judged and criticized for her big feelings.

You know, they stereotype them as dramatic and emotional and crazy, and that doesn't feel good for her, and it's not an emotionally safe space. So of course she's gonna close off and put up walls and shut down. Instead we could create space to just listen again and be like, yeah, that sucks. Yeah, I totally understand why you feel that way. And then when she's here, it's like, oh, okay. Like I'm not, yeah, you're not gonna judge when she's here, it's like, oh, okay. Like, I'm not, yeah, you're not gonna judge me

like everyone else. You're listening, listening. And then that helps relax her too, because you're just loving her for who she is rather than something you think she should be, right? There's so many shoulds on Teenage Girls. So how do you think you got them to confide in you? What was your journey?

So, well, first of all, the coming out of them with no judgment. But I also am very radically honest and teenage girls love radical honesty. So when you are just keep it real with them, we're like, oh, that's not good. You know, they can sense when you're telling them the truth and they can sense when adults are very lying to them in subtle ways, half-truths, omissions, this whole vibe of like trying to put on a show, you know, to teach her or protect her. And they actually wanna keep it super real.

And when somebody's real with them, that's another way to really connect and open up to. So different than what parents are set out to do. They're like, I have to make all the decisions for them. I have to protect them. I have to keep them safe. It's so, like the antithesis really of what parenting is. I think if I lean in and I accept her and I ask questions and I'm not going to do by

job, but through your book, you really do show these examples where you make it seem so simple. Yeah. And a teenager is a different era of life where they need some agency. And by giving a girl choice where I say, what do you think the solution is? Then she actually has to check in with herself and think of like, wait, what do I think the solution is? And that's building her own sense of self-trust.

And then when she has agency and she does make a good choice that affirms like, oh, I'm going to be capable of handling things and figuring things out in life. And that's what we actually want for our kids. Just an incredible skill set to be able to learn to handle on your own and allowing your kids to make decisions and just, you know, that you're there for them, but allow them to have that feeling power. Yeah, I know, that you're there for them, but allow them to have that. Yeah. And we put so much fear on girls.

Like we're so scared all the time of something going wrong or them doing something wrong. So instead they absorb that fear, which completely prevents that, that self trust of checking in with themselves and be like, wait, no, I can come up with a solution for this. So is this anxiety and fear, you know, all the headlines that we see are like girls are struggling, they're having mental health issues or so many challenges, you literally, we see these headlines every day.

It's just really as big of a problem. What do we do to shift this? Yeah, I mean, the main thing I see, you know, a lot of people talk about social media and we can talk about that for sure, but I actually see a much larger narrative of pressure put on them to be perfect and to be likeable at all, at all times. And it's again, how they should act, what they should look like.

It's all these shoulds that create the anxiety because people are imperfect, right? No one's perfect. And we're asking them to be perfect, which is impossible. So of course, that would put anyone in a state of anxiety. What would you share that how we get them to thrive right now? So I love creating room for mistakes and flaws and these things that seem so scary, but I love to reframe them as that's the growth area.

When they do something wrong, it's not the end of the world. They don't need to absorb it into their entire core identity. And I see that with boys. When boys make mistakes, it's no big deal. Like, whatever. We have to talk about boys too, right? So boys are like, we let them fall down. We let them make all the mistakes.

Yeah, they're messy. Meanwhile, when a girl makes a mistake, she completely absorbs it into her identity. Like she's done something terrible. And then we carry this. May couldn't help but in reading your book, something that we all realized the origin story, right? It was all happening when we were younger.

And now as adults, a lot of us struggle with a lot of the same things. Perfection of business is a big, great one. It's a big one. Yeah, perfection and people pleasing, I would say, are two huge wounds that happen in your teenage years that women for sure carry into it all. I would like to say I'm recovering people pleaser,

but what are some of the ways that you work with them on people pleasing and how does it show up? So a lot of people pleasing is about putting other people's needs before your own. And it's real subtle, even when a girl responds like, it's fine, or women, you know, oh, it's fine, it's fine. And it's not fine. It's not fine.

Like I usually ask more questions and they tell me this horrible story and I have to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, it's not fine. That's not okay. Just the fact that she would even try to put up that front is her just trying to tell me like, it's cool. I got it handled. Don't worry about me because she's trying to be perfect and likable.

When I say it's not fine, I'm saying, hey, we can hold some space for you just feeling awful about this for a second because that sucks. Then she gets a moment first to process and then also just check in and I say, what can I do to support you right now? You know, what do you need right now? And a lot of times that's a very foreign thing for them to hear.

No one's ever asked them, right? Right, so when I say, how can I support you right now? You know, a girl, when you first start this, they might be like, oh, I don't know, I don't know. And I'm like, okay, then let's sit with it for a sec. I trust that you're going to figure it out. Like check in with yourself. What is it that you need right now? What do they say? Is it that's a practice too for them, right? To really be in touch with what they need. So do you help them?

And it's not something that's happening in their life at all because they're putting other people's needs before they're up, which is what we all women do. We all do that. Now, what about we put everyone in front of us because we want to be liked, we want to be loved, we want people to accept us, and then we have all these pressure from our parents or whoever, yeah, it's tied into the perfectionism and the people pleasing. But I mean, I just couldn't help but draw these parallels

into something that we all talk about even in our adult lives was about, I was surprised to hear that teenage girls think that making themselves happy is selfish and it's so relatable because again, I don't think that changes that much as we get older too. I'm still this productivity culture. We have to always be doing stuff, getting shit done, putting ourselves first feels selfish. I guess my vision, not that my childhood wasn't like that, but I feel like I guess I put it

on other girls that they're happy. I guess my vision, not that my childhood wasn't like that, but I feel like I guess I put it on other girls that they're happy. They feel good doing things for themselves and putting themselves first. But no, and I say in the book, when I asked one girl to name those adjective for women and she said selfless when she's like, well, I don't know if that's a good thing though. And I was like, yeah, you're right. It's not. And this idea of martyrdom, female martyrdom for so long, whether it shows up in motherhood or shows up in the workplace

where they're always taking on more work in the workplace. And this idea that women are cocky or have a big ego also parallels this idea of them being selfish. And teenage girls told me over and over and over again, how much they feel society, parents, every adult is just like, well, don't get an ego, don't get cocky. Like that's not an issue. Women, women's egos is not like a big issue in the world. If anything, our issue is that we're not taking up space.

We're not owning our power. We're not owning our voice. And we're always trying to kind of minimize and make sure everyone around us is doing okay. What do they bring up to you about their sexuality and their sex lives? How do you get them to talk about that? Yeah. So, you know, I have a whole sexuality chapter, which has a little bit of a they bring up to you about their sexuality and their sex lives? How do you get them to talk about that? Yeah.

So, you know, I have a whole sexuality chapter, which has a little bit of a story arc to it, if you will, because, you know, I start in the realm of sexual violence because it is something that really affects their life because they write from dress codes, right? It's a huge narrative in their life that they need to be responsible for a boy's inclinations, that it's on their shoulders and they are going to be blamed. And girls tell me that over and over. And then also just the gender double standard of it all, that boys very much permission to seek pleasure and the media tells them that's cool thing to do. And that is not something girls are permissioned at all. And they're annoyed by it.

They don't know how to explore their sexuality in a safe way because they can't do anything right. Either they're posting too sexy of a selfie on social media, or they're just completely repressed and can't even talk about anything because it's so scary because everyone's pushing so much fear on them. And those are the two, there's so many extremes

and there's not any just loving non-judgmental space to let a girl explore. Because it is so scary out there now too. You talk one in the book too about the, the young girl's photo and the mom comes in like, what's this photo on Instagram? You're so sexy, like take it down. It's too sexy.

And then there's that whole argument. Like, and I've also had friends who have daughters like, what do I do with my daughter's going out of this crop top? And she's wearing this short skirt. Like, I've also had friends of daughters like, what do I do with my daughters going out of this crop top and she's wearing this short skirt? Like, how do you not shame them, but also like, let them know that the world isn't always safe? Yeah, I include them into the conversation with questions.

And I say, hey, why do you wanna wear this? Like, how does it make you feel? What part of yourself are you exploring right now? Because when I actually approach it, seeking to understand her first and what she's trying to express, then she feels understood, there's a conversation, she feels respected, and the girls are mature enough

to have those types of conversations. And that's when sometimes either I shift my point of view about it or she does, but at least we're starting from a tone of curiosity rather than shame and judgment. What the girls kind of wish too is that we were doing this high level type of stuff for the boys, right? Sexual violence is actually a male violence issue. If women and girls could have stopped gender based violence, we would have done it by now.

It's actually men who need to look at time to understand. So what do we do for the men? Yeah, and I will say too, I mean, there's only 11 states that teach in their sex education curriculum consent. Eleven states only teach consent. So of course that explains a lot why boys are also very confused and maybe don't know how to handle this that well. So what if we looked at educating boys on what is healthy manhood, what is respecting

a girl and also him owning and taking responsibility for his own, you know, inclinations as well. So we talked a little bit about how we don't have a lot of enough sex education out there that's accurate and informative and teaches consent. But you also covered the book too, like there's so much, another side of that is that then there's also a lot of slut shaming that goes on. You talk about how the girls describe it. So what's going on with slut shaming still

and how do we change the narrative around it? Yeah, oh my gosh, slut shaming is a huge issue that the girls bring up themselves. I mean, it's my most popular video I've ever made is my slut shaming video on Tik Tok. I went completely so big because the girls are like, yeah, oh my gosh, and they're just sharing their stories about how it happens to them. And now, you know, her brother's friends told her her skirt was so short and she's

a slut when she's like 12 years old, right? And how then she's like sharing in the comments. And now I haven't worn a skirt for five years, like really sad things. And, and again, it's kind of back to that again, trying to control their outfits. As much as a parent thinks they're protecting her, it's kind of back to that. Again, trying to control their outfits, as much as a parent thinks they're protecting her, it's usually a communication of shame is what actually happens. When you comment in a judgy way on a girl's clothes,

she is going to receive it as shame. And it's surprising how easily people throw around the words of like, well, you look like a tramp. You look like a slut, like as if it's no big deal. And a girl is like, what? And the truth is, I would love for them to feel sexually empowered in a way, but there's no word for a sexually empowered teenage girl. That word doesn't exist, right? So we just have slut. That's the only word that's around. Women have tried to reclaim that word. There's been so many things that we've tried to deal

with this, but for a teenage girl hearing it, it's like a laceration that sticks with her. It's true. It just kind of builds on the whole notion that what we would need to do is say, explain to boys too, right? So what it actually means and what sexuality means and when they make those comments, how it makes a girl feel and then tying the girls like, because how do you talk about the outfits? Like that's the one thing. It's like you want to, we're trying to protect them, but yet in protecting them, we're shaming them. So, well, yeah, and I would say instead of thinking you have the duty to protect them, you help her understand how to protect herself. And so that's why I always say with the questions,

like, well, why do you want to wear that? How does it make you feel like so she can gain? If I say it makes you feel sexy, makes you feel hot. Yeah. By the way, what's wrong with that? Right? Like a girl feeling sexy and having a little bit of space to explore that identity and personality. Right? And if you are so worried about protecting her, go focus on boys. Go, you know, I personally am on the board of a nonprofit called a call to Men that's all about healthy manhood and teaching boys and men what healthy masculinity is. When girls started telling me their sexual assault stories, their slut shaming stories,

that's what I went and did. I didn't say, oh, well, you better change your outfit because I got to protect you. Instead, I went to the source of the issue of- What did the boys have to say? Well, I got to say too, Gen Z is exciting. There are changes with Gen Z. Yeah, the boys are totally having more space for sensitivity. And I had a boy one time I was working with who had this t-shirt on.

And it was via Zoom that I was tutoring him. And this t-shirt said the future is female, but I hadn't noticed it yet. And he was like, Chelsea, you didn't see my shirt. And I was like, oh, and he just like was so wanted to share with me that he was a feminist now. And I was just like, I love you, Gen Z. I love you so much. The boys are evolving. You know, it's I there's, you know, there's frustrations with it. We could expand on that forever. But yes, teaching a boy not to call a girl a slut would sounds like a good starting point for me rather than, Hey, let me protect you by

shaming you on your clothes. Right. But I guess we understand why parents do it or why people do that is because they're not safe because of this rape statistics and sexual assault and all the things. So it's like really, I find that when girls actually know this, so I do a lot of this, actually I teach a lot of this actually. I teach girls the actual statistics

around sexual violence. I help them feel educated about the situation rather than fear, fear, fear, fear, fear. And so when I teach girls about the actual statistics, one in five on a college campus, they don't like, you know, fall apart and are like, oh my God, I'm gonna, this is, this is gonna happen to me. No, they're empowered.

They're like, I have girls starting programs on their college campuses to create change because they're like, wait, this is an issue. I can be a part of the solution rather than you just need to be scared all the time. Yeah, no, I love that. And I love the change with parents too. You talk about how you parents need to support their girls

and this is so much fear. I didn't realize how much fear the girls were holding on to about that, that it was so prevalent, felt like they weren't being supported from their parents or from their... Oh yeah, it's always like a debate that they almost have to prove. For some reason, parents will be like, oh well, you got to deal with it though. It's like, buck up. This is just the way it is. And the girls are like, wait, but there's, there's a quote in the book where the girls

like, go deal with your boys. Like stop putting this on my shoulders. I can't solve this by myself. You know, they want to feel like you are on her team. But when they say like, buck up, deal with it, you're on the boys team of just letting them continue on like this. You know, the girl, and again, in that same quote, she's like, I feel like there's so much education of teaching girls how not to get raped, but

there's no education on teaching boys like not to rape in the first place. There really isn't, is there? What about with your call to men? Is there anything that you think? Oh, yeah, they're doing incredible work on engaging men and boys. I mean, they do it in professional sports leagues or they do it in middle schools with their curriculum. I mean, they're engaging boys and men in the best way. What do you think that the boys need to know right now? If you could talk to teenage boys right now, what would you think are the best top things

that we would need to know? For me, my experience with boys has been, again, back to just naming a feeling. Boys are allowed to feel one, well, it's different though. Boys are allowed to feel one feeling, anger. And anger is taking the place of things like sadness and hurt, you know, it's that whole like, they can't cry. There's such a toxic masculinity box

that they feel like they need to fit in. And I don't think masculinity is actually toxic. Like there's a healthy masculinity that exists, but the constructs of it and society are so restricting for boys. So when I give them permission, oftentimes I'm just will be like, hey, well, how do you feel right now?

And they look at me like that is the first time anyone has ever asked them that. And then they have no vocabulary around it. They're just like, bad. And I'm like, okay, let's get out the feelings wheel, right? And when they get a little more specific and they develop a feelings vocabulary and that that permission them to actually voice

their emotions, that's gonna change the world. Truly. What about girls in their anatomy? What do they know? Well, so I love teaching girls that part of their body is actually a vulva and not a vagina. Or you know, vaginas are a specific part of it. And that blows their mind up.

They have no idea that the word vulva even exists, right? And it's so empowering for them. I have a girl that just messaged me like a month ago. It was like, I'm teaching all my friends on my college campus, you know, the difference between vulva and vagina and we're all saying it right now. And just them again, knowing their own anatomy

helps them feel connected to it and empowered with it. That's all this is about getting, helping women to feel more connected to their bodies because from such a young age as we're seeing it, like they're just disconnected, shamed, right? Not people safe. But you know, they're people's needs before their own. Yeah.

Trying to fit in the normal box. Yeah, and all of this is keeping them from having the sex life and the relationships that they deserve. Yeah, exactly. So how would you say that people pleasing and perfectionism ties into sexuality for the girls? So. And for all of us.

Perfectionism is that kind of almost like performative of I'm gonna look like this and be pretty or sexy this way and then they'll like me because that's the perfect look that is desired. And then on the people pleasing front, again, it's that performative like putting someone else's needs of like, how can I make them happy? And there's not any focus on like, what is my pleasure? What would light me up? And this doesn't have to be sexual pleasure.

It could be anything that lights them up. We just don't talk to them about pleasure at all. Yeah. Oh gosh, that word. Oh my gosh, and the work that I have done, you know, words like STD and rape and pregnancy, those are scary words. But I will tell you that clitoris, orgasm and pleasure have been way scarier words for people.

So these girls, so what do they know about sexuality right now? What do you find that they don't? Well, it's not scary for the girls. I mean, like for parents, those are scary words. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, I know. That's the problem with parents. So parents come to you and say like, what do I do? Or how do I talk to them about it? What happens? Sure. I mean, I'm usually more in the trenches with the girls, but yes, there have definitely been parents. When I try to educate on these kind of things like clitoris or orgasm, I come at it first from a just knowing your own anatomy, right?

Like teaching a girl, like their anatomy of a clitoris, like that's actually can be a very factual, academic arena that is incredibly empowering because they don't know. A girl knows her own anatomy. She feels way more confident in her own body. She's gonna be like, oh wait that's like a place of pleasure if I understand it better and instead we all just kind of hide and repress and don't even use that word because it's this quote-unquote scary word and why? Why? Why is it so scary for girls? I know and for the parents that's the thing is that the

parents really struggle and it's so important and that's sort of a theme of everything here is that so much of our own struggles we're putting on our kids, we're afraid to talk about it, right? So we have so much that comes up for us. Like I can't talk to my kids about sex because I'm still struggling with my own shame. Exactly, so. And my own trauma.

Exactly, and so when parents come to me, like you said, actually when the parents ask me, when they're so uncomfortable, the first thing I say to them, I'm like, well, why are you uncomfortable? To talk about these things, go figure that out first. Go figure out why you're uncomfortable and then deal with those triggers you have because then you'll be able to come to the girl with that open-hearted, genuinely curious, non-judgmental

energy that she'll respond to. Shame is a huge theme too, right? I'm just thinking about parents who talk about it because they have their own shame. I mean, it really does permeate everything we do. I realize that I would say that shame is one of the biggest killers of our sex drive, our sex lives. How have you worked with them around? It all seems to tie into shame right now.

So shame, I found, you know, I have a whole chapter entitled Shame. It's about speaking it out loud. It's literally just the act of sharing and speaking out loud, what you're scared of saying out loud. It's literally just the act of sharing and speaking out loud, what you're scared of saying out loud with anyone who feels trusted and you know will be met with love. And that's all that usually needs to happen.

You don't need to fix anything. And once you just have a person receive you and meet you and you don't feel so alone in that, it dissipates. You say the things that you think you cannot say. Yeah, exactly. Right, in a trusted place. And that was the power of the Me Too movement, right? When all these women started saying Me Too,

all the women were like, wait, right, we're not alone. We're not alone. And there was a huge healing effect that that had. So I was reflecting on our journey when I was reading the book and how we met. And I remember that when we met a few years ago, what's that when we first met? Four years ago?

On our journey, four years ago. On our journey, we both were going through a lot, but I was thinking about your journey with what was going on with you and how that ties into with your painful sex, which you mentioned in the book, and how that ties into so many different things, like people pleasing, not speaking up,

thinking that it was okay or overriding your feelings or you wanna talk about that journey to how it could relate. What you're talking about is that I had pain with sex for a very long time, like decades. And I had just not really, no one had kind of said, hey, no, that's not okay. You know, instead it's, there's a real narrative of just like,

yeah, that hurts sometimes. Like, yeah, I mean, I would see a doctor and they'd be like, oh, have you just had a glass of wine and relax a bit? Those are the types of things I would hear. And there was very little medical research about sexual pain and so on to support women on this journey. And of course, I was a person that was trying to really explore and figure it out. But so much of it had to do also with just my own

reclaiming that this is something I could have in my life and that my story isn't just another woman that shrugs her shoulders and is like, oh, sex is okay, whatever. And that's an empowerment story in and of itself. Yeah, and then the journey that it took you like 10 years of going after it, but being dismissed. Yeah.

And I'm pain-free now, so that's exciting. Yeah, that is exciting, Charles. I mean, I think that story is so relatable too, because so many of us do struggle with it and women don't find the answers. I think it's just another way that women accept, I'm not going to have orgasms, I'm not going to have pleasure, I'll just suffer through painful sex. I guess I'll have like painful periods, painful childbirth and painful sex, right? So, you know, just another way that women give up their power and their right to pleasure.

And so it's such a great example of how you were like, no, I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna talk to everyone I can to get to the bottom of this. We'll be right back with more Chelsea Gooden after this message from our sponsor, Don't Go Away. What about the conversations that the girls are having with each other? You also have a chapter on friends, which of friends we know as teenage girls it's so

important, although I've also realized that I know that it still is one of the most important thing in our relationships. How are their friendships? Like what are we seeing? Are they healthy? Not healthy? Are they recognizing? Do you think they're getting more toxic?

Have you seen the friendships change over time with social media and media and that they're less connected, they're spending less time together because of the phones? What have you seen over? It's interesting. I have seen actually a beautiful narrative change which is, you know, back in the day, there was a real one seat at the table for the woman at the boardroom table of the job, and we were all competing for it. And so it was very women against women culture for a long time.

And Gen Z is changing it. They are way more of a girl supporting girls, women supporting women. They don't really understand why everyone is competitive in that way. And a lot of people complain about girls taking each other down in social media, but I see way more of the opposite of them just amping each other up in the comments. I mean, they do it to me.

They're just like, you go girl, you got this. They don't believe there's a limited amount of success for women in the way that we did, that they really do believe there's enough for all of us. Yeah. I love that change. I've seen that too. It's really heavell because I still think that's an old trope.

Sometimes I think it's more men. So I've always been very avoided of any toxic friendships. I feel like it's so important when you feel safe in friendships. And I think that our friendship, a lot of our friends are like that. But this whole notion, I feel like I hear from men more often than like, oh, well, women always want to take each other down, but I personally haven't experienced that as much. Maybe I avoid it. But what you're saying is, I know it's out there, but you're seeing this shift in all these years that you feel like they're not as jealous. It's

not as petty. It's not as gossip and toxic. It's still like, still exists. Yeah, there's still bullying moments. Oh, but this is another shift is this, this generation is so good with mental health and psychology. they're really into those topics. And so when I, when there is a mean girl situation, I will often ask the girl, well, what do you think that bully, you know, what do you think her home life is like, you know, what are her parents like? And she'll often know, and she'll be like, Oh, well, her mom criticizes her a lot. I know her dad's never around. And I'm like, wow, does that sound hard? Like, how do you think she handles that? And do you think she might be in pain about that?

And then the girls like, oh my gosh, you're right. Yeah, like that sounds really hard. I feel bad for her. Like they come at it with compassion. They really understand things much more compassionately through a psychology lens. And I love that too about this generation. That's so exciting.

The idea is they are born into the psychology. It's true. I love that it's so much more available right so exciting. They are boring to the psychology. It's true. I love that it's so much more available right now. Say what you want about social media. But if they're on TikTok watching, I love it. I know. And they have learned honestly so much from a psychology-oriented infographic on social media.

Girls talking to me about their different trauma responses. I mean, I didn't know about that stuff when I was 16. I've had a girl talk to me about her mother wound. Again, I have women friends in their 40s who are just learning about their mother wound. Like this is exciting. It's exciting. That's a parallel that I'm seeing.

Reading all of us, I'm like, this is what we need to, like we are still our teenage girls. Like a lot of us carry around our inner child and the stuff that we haven't healed. So it really makes you think like if we are still adult woman and we are challenged by this stuff, you know, we all have a lot of work to do,

but we can reflect that back and even being honest, like I love in your book too, you also mentioned the girls like, I've struggled with this too and this is where I'm at. So I think that's why they also, you know, really trust you. I feel like my inner teenage girl did like a lot of growing up through this process too and reading the book. So it was really, really helpful.

What about you? Like what have you learned in these last years? How has your inner-teacher gone? Certainly is exactly what you're saying. Like the journey of writing this has been healing my own inner-teenager and I hope to give that to everyone. You don't have to have a teenage girl in your life to feel that from this book.

And I've been giving these girls something that I didn't have at their age and it's this beautiful healing process that has happened. To bring back your question about men putting that narrative of, oh, women tearing each other apart, we can also make a choice collectively. I'm also trying to give energy to this narrative of girls and women supporting each other, because the more we sit around complaining about women tearing each other apart, that's what's going to continue. That cycle is going to continue. And a lot of what I'm trying to do with this book is break cycles, break patterns that

we have had in the narrative of women. And now it's changing. We can change it with this new beautiful, wonderful group of girls. Oh my God. So how do you work with women also, these young girls, on breaking some of the patterns? We've talked about some of the people pleasing. And the other thing that came up, so many girls say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry,

I'm sorry all the time. I remember I had a year where I was trying to, like with my team, it was a few years ago, I was like, I'm not gonna say I'm sorry, and if I say, and then I'd go sorry, not sorry, like in public with people in full-on meetings, I'd be on, and I'd be like, sorry, not sorry. What does that tie into it?

How do we stop that? It's so harmful, and you never hear guys saying that. I mean, I'll be on and I'd be like, sorry, not sorry. What does that tie into it? How do we stop that? It's so harmful and you never hear guys saying that. I mean, I'll do actually very practical types of tips where we have accountability with each other that because I was doing it too. And then I would do accountability with a girl or I'd be like, okay, if you say it or if I say it, let's just gently be like, Hey, you don't have to apologize for this. You don't have to say sorry and just bring it into your awareness. Literally, the first step is just an awareness.

I've also had girls even have a tally on their phone where they make a tally every time they say it, and then they come back to me a week later, completely and utterly horrified. They're just like, wait, I had no idea I was saying it like a hundred times a day, because you say it really mechanically, automatically and don't have awareness around it.

So a lot of the time it's just breaking a pattern. It's first just the awareness and the intention to do it. And a lot of it is, you know, there's a liberation that happens when we start breaking out of these patterns and connecting to our authentic self, like what do I actually authentically think right now or feel right now? And instead of just working on autopilot. Yeah, I guess that's all tied to the shame to write the sorry that I'm doing something wrong and that I'm not perfect. So tying to our emotions. I love that you have the feelings wheel in your book. I have feelings wheel all over my house. Do you feel like a lot of what you do is

you're trying to get them just to feel right because all this stuff, the people pleasing and the power struggles and the perfectionism is like a way of also keeping us from really feeling, right? Feeling our two 100% and And also feeling, quote unquote, negative feelings or displeasing or hard feelings. That's where girls don't feel like there's space for that and that it's bad if they do. So if they feel frustrated or angry or disappointed, which are normal, totally normal human emotions,

but we don't give any space for girls to have that. It's so uncomfortable. And certainly for a parent watching a girl have feelings like that, you don't give any space for girls to have that. It's so uncomfortable. And certainly for a parent watching a girl have feelings like that, you don't want to see your daughter in pain. So you want to be quick to come in and solve it for them. But actually, there's something really valuable about sitting with her feeling, naming it, because then that's how it processes and releases. There's so much to release.

Learn. So much learning about feelings. Like, right, it takes 90 seconds to experience emotion. So if you feel like a feeling, so if you think it's just like all the stuff that's trapped in our body that we were never, like, I just remember, like you read your book, I had so many like flashbacks. Like what I was a kid, I was like, my mom's always like, you are, she still says this, which is harmful.

I think now I'm realizing, but like, when you were 15, you were the worst. You were the worst. She still talks about like, oh, you at 15 being your mom at 15. And I just realized that it's just so unfa... You know, I was like slamming doors and angry. And then I thought like, I was such a bad person and all that. There was no room to feel, there was no room to... But I guess like your hope with this book,

like what is your hope that, you know, we're gonna get out there? How do we get this out to people? Yeah, I mean, a lot of it is, the only thing in your control is yourself. And that's where the change begins, is when you start making different choices for yourself.

And then that will have a healing effect on to the teenage girls in your life without a doubt. But it's so heady and so challenging is because so many of us haven't done our own work, right? On ourselves. So then you've got pair. I find this with the sex conversation, which I'm, that's the main question I get from parents is like, what do I do?

How do I talk to them about it? But then going back to what we said earlier, they haven't yet healed themselves. And so you're like one person doing this work, but it's almost like, and we've talked about this, like there needs to be some kind of like global healing for like parents, children, everyone together to learn. Cause we never, we never had the training, right?

I know, and I have total compassion. A parent will have triggers trying to come to her daughter to talk about sex when she's all triggered and figuring it out herself. Yeah, we need a huge collective healing around this. And I genuinely believe like helping to heal these, this brokenness that we have around these conversations will help liberate women in general when we can step into this type of all types of power, including sexual power, in a healthy way that feels really founded in authenticity.

That's when it's gonna be really exciting for women. That's it. We're doing it. This is the start. So what would you say that you learned the most about your own self, like your own sexuality, like any reflections in the girls that you've seen in yourself and your own struggles? Yeah. I think I just didn't. There was so much I didn't know I didn't have a sex education. Right. And so I'm really passionate about just basic sex education, which we know is just abysmal

in the United States and just trying to give them access to just even basics. But I would love obviously next level pleasure focused education on how does a girl actually even pursue or begin to understand what she might like or who she is in this space, so who her identity is in this space. We're still struggling with that, right? Still not a lot of information. Curiosity, listening, compassion, slowing down.

God, we could all use this in our personal relationships too, right? Not just with young girls. Exactly. So the skills that we all need to learn, um, what are you hearing from them most? Like if you had to say like, these are the biggest challenges that they're having right now with their sex lives and their sexuality, are there themes that you're like, the every girl's asked me that. And also how has it changed?

So what are the main things coming up? It's funny. The girls are, are much more evolved, but they feel like they're still playing into the performative male gaze of it all. And, and by the way also, girls these days identify on the LGBTQ spectrum in a way bigger way than ever before in history, which has been really

actually a cool shift because now they're stepping into a territory that doesn't have societal definitions and boundaries. And so there has been this much bigger exploration of pansexual, bisexual, queer, and that feels liberating to them to not be put in some box, you know, not the old story of, I gotta perform a bit sexy for this boy. So they feel that pressure and they're kind of trying to fight it. They still get sucked into it, but there's also this really cool expansion that I see happening right now that I'm trying to affirm for them as

well. So about this expansion, it's like there's a lot of pushback too from parents who just don't understand it. They can be like, well, you shouldn't be talking to my daughter at eight years old about her gender identity. She doesn't have those feelings that she doesn't know yet. And so there's a lot of pushback. I'm with you on the guy, love that giving them options and not putting them into box. Like if you're a girl, you have to like a boy, but what kind of things are you hearing girls in their exploration about?

Yeah. Well, and you have to be really conscious of your language too with a girl. Like I always make sure I use the word crush. And because think how young you start being like, are you like any boys? We say that so young to them. Meanwhile, you know, the average age of coming out is now looking and there's not a set statistic, but it's looking like it's about 14. We came from a generation where it was so much older. And so we're experiencing something that's quite different and profound of if kids come out earlier, what does that look like?

What? How does their life look different? It's funny how we don't tell a little girl, like who's your boyfriend at school? Who do you, you know, and we have no problem doing that. But then when a girl comes out at 14, everyone's like, oh, whoa, I mean, does she know her sexuality well enough? You know, I don't know what she knows yet. You know, and it's like, oh, wait, no, that's actually puberty when she actually is experiencing these types of feelings.

And why does she need the judgment? Who cares? Like let her just figure it out. That's what they want. They want it to not be some crazy big deal and the whole thing about it. They just wanna have the ease and space to explore. But then as a result of that, we are judging

when we hear this. Judge, judge, judge. Immediately it's all judging. And that's why we're so negative. We're so hard on ourselves because of all the judgments from society that aren't accepting them, right? Aren't accepting every choice that they make. Yeah, and the last chapter of the book is power, right?

And so many of these things we're talking about are disempowering women, starting so young, teenage girls. And what does the world look like where actually women are stepping into their full authentic power? That's an exciting vision. I love when you ask about this too, about like, what would it look like with a more feminine type leadership? Yes, exactly.

So I had asked the teenage girls, you know, what do you think the world would look like if the majority of the leaders in the world were women? You know, it's a pretty oversimplified question, but I was just so blown away by their answers because they effusively responded with like, oh, there'd be more care, more empathy, more equality, more generosity. I mean, the things they were saying, I mean, whether you agree or not, if women would lead that way is beside the point. It's what they envisioned for our world had so much more to do with a heart-centered, love-filled leadership style rather than our leadership that we've had, you know,

is a masculine type of solution, which is often domination, oppression, control, status, wealth, physical domination, these narratives that are just haven't worked for us. They're not working right. They haven't worked and we're ready for something new. Charles, this is a great start and I loved all the insights from the girls in the book. Like they really paid such a great picture of seeing that, where they are today. Like you get them to really speak these things that speak their truths in ways that, yeah, we don't often know that they're thinking to do that.

They would have said that. They would have had these answers to so many of these questions. They have more depth, they have more insights than we ever give them credit. So I- Exactly, we've underestimated them. We underestimated them, Chelsea.

Well, you didn't and you've helped so many women. I know this is gonna help everyone out there who has it. They're inner teenage girl, teenage girls in their lives which I think we pretty much all do. I think we do. We come across people in our lives or I think that people are gonna see a lot of themselves in this too. Well done, well done Chelsea. Alright Chelsea, I have a question from a listener and I love your help in answering it. This is from Kaylee and she's 27 in Maryland. Hey Dr. Emily, this is my first time coming across

your website and I love it. Thank you for being one of those people that help others when it comes to stuff like this. The reason I actually came across your podcast was because I'm constantly self-conscious when it comes to having sex. Like I wanna be good and I hear you say, do your research, but when it comes to the time,

by research I mean like self love and self touch. When it comes to the time to do it, I can't get out of my head and I don't 100% enjoy sex. I get nervous and anxious and it kills the vibe. My last relationship was a couple of years. I hooked up with one other person since then, but it's almost been a year and a half since I've had sex now. And obviously I'm scared to get back into the game.

What would you recommend from somebody who is constantly nervous that they're not good enough, not fit enough to have sex and be confident with it? I'm sorry to go to the gym, trying to be healthy, but mentally, I don't know where to start. Anxiety is one of the biggest killers of our sex drive and shame. And I think that this whole notion that people often have this same thing where they are constantly comparing themselves to others, thinking that they should be better in bed than they already are. And I just want to tell women like a lot of the work starts with knowing our bodies, knowing what feels good to us, being able to communicate that to a partner eventually, but really when we learn to give ourselves pleasure, a lot of things do melt away because

then we're not in our heads worrying if we're good enough, worrying, you know, if we're doing it right, comparing our partner. So what would you say here? So I would say this interestingly lands in my identity chapter, which is about authenticity. And the more that you can start getting a girl connected to what just lights her up truly connects to her from deeply within what makes her happy. And I'm going to lean into that even the word

weird, like what makes her weird, what makes her unique. And I say weird in a really positive way. But I say it because it actually often triggers like, well, I'm weird in this way. And when you, because what you were just saying is how we're always comparing ourselves to everybody else, we're trying to do the right thing or trying to, and it's the standard that is just not, not possible because it's nebulous. And the only thing you're actually going to like is when you truly connect with yourself. So what does that look like? It happens in really small moments when you authentically decide to be like, well, do I like that or do I not like that?

Could be, I mean, it comes back to people pleasing, but it could be like, you're throwing a dinner party and you want everyone to be happy, so you do like 10 different dishes, but do you want to do that? Are you talking to me? Ha ha ha ha ha, maybe. I try to have enough food for everyone.

No, it's so sweet. But I mean, like, actually check in, like, what would make me happy? What would make me not feel stressed? You know, what are the three things that light me up and it's like, oh, okay, I'll do these three dishes because that's what it's going to make me happy. And I'm not going to be so worried about everybody else. I'm just doing a funny side example of how little, how much we abandon our authenticity. Why are people so afraid to be weird?

And I think in our teenage years, girls, everyone wants their kid to be normal. So to go back to Kaylee, it's like, I feel like she's still playing out a societal narrative of all these shoulds. And what if she was just like, well, I kind of just one tiny step at a time of like, I weirdly like this, or I'm kind of into that

and just commit to honoring yourself and choosing that. Body image and your relationship with your body is so, sets its foundations in your teenage years. And think about it how we talk to little girls, right? What is the first thing that we say to them? We're like, oh my God, look how cute you are, look at that pretty dress you're wearing. The girls learn so early on that what they look like,

what they're wearing is their worth and value. You know, it's all well-intentioned. You're trying to compliment the little girl, but we say to little boys, you know, oh, what's your favorite subject in school? What's your favorite sport? It's still happening. It's so different.

And the average age for a girl to go on a diet, like to start dieting, is age eight. No. Yeah, and from age eight to 14, their confidence plummets 30%, whereas boys it doesn't. So obviously something's happening during those years. And so, again, trying to keep it practical with tips, I often tell the women and moms and teenage girls tell me this, that they are so tired of the women in their lives insulting

their own body and beauty in front of them. So they see it with their moms and their caregivers. Yes, and certainly an adult should never, honestly comment on a girl's body that is never gonna go well and it's always not gonna have a good impact, but it's actually more subtle when the mom or the women, the teachers, it could be any woman

is like, oh, I looked at that in this or they're just dieting for years on end. The girls absorb that in a really serious level. And again, I have compassion. Those these women are all, we're all just victims of the same system. I know the moms have no intended harm on their daughter. But the amount of teenage girls that have told me that they feel like their relationship to their body would have been different if they hadn't been seeing this woman that was modeled in front of them, constantly complaining about her looks and body in front of them.

Oh my God, it's so insightful for parents to take a step back. Like it's almost like all the things that parents are focusing on, yeah, we just don't, they don't wanna look at themselves really, or it's hard to look at yourselves, especially if there's been a pattern, you've always been, and your mom criticized her,

and her mom was on, like, how do you, you gotta break the cycle, which is what you're trying to do here. I'm gonna ask you the five questions that we ask all of our guests, quickie questions, ready? What's your biggest turn on? The brain.

Biggest turn off? Complaining. What makes good sex? Creativity and inspiration. Something you would tell your younger self about sex and relationships. That it's going to evolve, that you don't have to have it all figured out.

What's the number one thing you wish everyone knew about sex? That your relationship to it is also connected to your power, your power center. Okay, Chelsea, where can everyone find your book and find you and follow you in all your incredible work? Well, I think following me on Instagram is probably the easiest way to track everything going on, which is just at Chelsea Gooden.

And you can buy the book wherever books are sold. I'm also going on a book tour all throughout March. So you can look on my Instagram and see all the different locations I'd love to meet you. Yeah, all those things. Well, thank you. Thank you, Chelsea, for being here. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and the wisdom of teenage girls.

We appreciate you so much. Thank you. Thank you Chelsea for being here. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and the wisdom of teenage girls. We appreciate you so much. Thank you. That's it for today's episode. See you on Friday. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to like, subscribe, and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner. You can find me on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook and Twitter at Sex with Emily.

Oh, I've been told I give really good email. So sign up at SexWithEmily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. If you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating, or relationships, call my hotline, 559 TALK SEX. That's 559-825-5739. Or go to SexWithEmily.com slash Ask Emily. Was it good for you?

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