Shawn Ryan Show - #12 Luis Chaparro - Inside Cartel Drug Operations

Episode Date: September 1, 2021

I sit down with investigative Mexican Cartel / Narcos reporter Luis Chaparro to discuss the DEA's arms deals with the Sinaloa Cartel, and how China is sending chemists to work with drug cartels to produce the most potent fentanyl on the planet to be smuggled into the United States. Please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shawn-ryan-show/id1492492083 Follow Luis Chaparro: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/luiskuryaki Twitter - https://twitter.com/LuisKuryaki Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website - https://www.shawnryanshow.com Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/VigilanceElite TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnryanshow Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shawnryan762 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Step into a new Jeep that you can count on from the awarded new Grand Cherokee to the capable 2022 Jeep Compass that Jeep lineup won't compromise on power, technology, or comfort, delivering confidence and convenience for 29 years. Woodhouse Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram in Blair is your trusted auto partner. Visit us off highway 30 in Blair or online at Woodhouse Chrysler Dodge Jeep brand in Blair is your trusted auto partner. Visit us off highway 30 in Blair or online at woodhouse Chrysler Jeep Dodge.com So you've seen thousands of dead bodies that have been murdered The fentanyl like the proper powder, the fentanyl in powder, the precursors to kukit come from China or from China. So you just totally immerse yourself into the narco culture to gain their trust, to experience it so you understand it better.

Orbaus brought someone from China to teaching how to accomplish it. I don't know if you heard about the killing of two employees of the US Consulating to the Aquarius. This is the wrong hip-man coming in there. Yeah. Because I know if I killed that guy, that couple of guys that got into me, there's gonna be more coming. So you're saying that the DEA is trading weapons for kingpins or kingpins?

And you grab a kingpin, he was just a part of that horizontal suture. It was not the bus, you didn't caught the hat of the snake. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Sean Ryan Show. This is episode 012 and it's all about cartels, the DEA and fentanyl. Thank you for everyone that showed up to the live conference about the Blackwater episode. It was a great chat we had on Patreon, and for you patrons out there, you are the ones that make it possible

to bring these stories to light. So thank you. If you can't support us on Patreon, please go to the link below, click the iTunes tab, and leave us a review. All we're looking for is one word. Let's get onto the cartel stuff. In episode 012, we've brought to you

an investigative cartel journalist that was kidnapped. He also witnessed an arms deal go down between the DEA and the Sonola cartel. He's also embedded with fentanyl chemists in Mexico and discusses with us how the Chinese are sending chemists to Mexico to train the cartels to produce the most potent fentanyl in the world and how it's smuggled into the United States of America. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my next guest, Luis Chapparro.

Luis Chapparro. Yeah. Do I say that right? Yes, that's perfect. Welcome to the Sean Ryan show. Thank you for having me, man. I mean, I told you I've been watching your channel and now I'm here. It's like, wow. This is where it happens. Second interview in the new studio. And there's an amazing studio menu have here. I think I really love it. Thank you.

It's amazing. So you're an investigative reporter, and you do a lot of stuff with drug trafficking, narcos, and immigration. And we met on a Zoom call. You shot an email and said you wanted to be on the show. We got a lot of those emails and nine times out of ten. We knick some. But you sent a couple of articles. We picked through them and I was like, ship, you know, let's see what this guy is all

about. So, and we had just wrapped up an episode with my friend Ed Calderone, which is what drew you into the channel. Exactly. And I think we were all a little skeptical on, you know, what's going to make you different than Ed. Yeah. Because, you know, Ed, we had just done that. Ed's very knowledgeable on all these topics.

And so we jumped on a Zoom call called first words out of your mouth after I think my wife asked you that is what's gonna make you any different than Ed you said well we just did a deal between the DEA and the Sonola cartel and I jumped in immediately and said fuck it you're on. Let's who it is. Saturday. And so here we are. And we're going to talk about a whole bunch of stuff. We're going to talk about arms trafficking, your DEA deal, and you did a tour of a fentanyl lab. And then we'll get into the documentary that you made and produced and eventually wound up on Showtime.

Showtime, yes. So which I watched this morning, it was a good, good doc. Thank you. So, but kind of getting a little backstory on here, just a little bit here, how did you kind of get into investigative journalism when it comes to cartels? I grew up in Quattas. I was born in Silatuarez, right at the border of Mexico, right across El Paso, Texas.

I have the dual citizenship. Growing up at the border, you are immediately immersed into that crazy world of cartels and all that stuff. It's been happening in Mexico forever. So I remember reading some magazines, my dad used to read, that is lawyer, but he used to be a teacher back then and he would read a lot.

And I would read about cartels, I would read about organizations, about drug trafficking. And it was like the glue in my mind that that world existed in the same world. I was living in. At the same time, that culture is always around you when you're living a place like Ciudad Juarez. I was in in a private school, in primary school, was like a fancy school where most of the businessmen

and business owner put their kids. And the rumor that some of the narcos including Mado Carrillo Fuentes, El Señor de los cielos, he had a couple of kids there on that same school. So I was like, you know, the whole, my whole life has been around that stuff. So I wanted, I knew when I was in secondary school, I knew that I wanted to write.

I just wanted like to learn, you know, I couldn't wait to go into college and say like, okay, I'm gonna learn some skills to actually start writing. And I'm gonna end up writing for the magazines like that used to read, you know. And I did one of those magazines is Processor Magazine, and I had to cover one of them, actually talking about the CIA,

a CIA operation in Mexico. And the other one talking about how the D.A. was not really looking for narcos in Mexico, but looking for like gold medals to hang on their neck. And so when I went to college, I didn't study journalism, sort of like mass media, which was like a broader thing. I honestly thought like I just need a paper, you know, because I was already working at a local newspaper. I went and knocked on the door, trying to get a job

as to deliver the newspaper. I was like, that way I'm gonna be the first one reading the news of my city. And I can maybe find around how journalism works in a newsroom. So I went there, they told me like, all right, wait, wait on that chair. And then I was on the editor of the newspaper came down a stair. So like, you're here for the editor, right? And I'm like, yes, I'm exactly that guy. That was completely

bullshit. And he set me up on a computer, gave me a couple of articles, like a list of news headlines. And I think we called Domi, which was like a small version of a newspaper page. And told me, that's you today. And I'm like, all right, what the fuck am I going to do with all of this? I had no clue. But I started asking. And the friends around started helping me out out like on how to decide on which article was going to be on on the front which picture I was super I was like 19 years old back then

and I was like fuck it I learned quick I stay there then they noticed that okay so you weren't here for that job, right? I'm like, no, but I have six months now working here and delivering, so what the hell, you know? And it's like, all right, do you have a permit to work in the US? And I'm like, yeah, I'm a US citizen also. That's perfect, let's move you to the US newsroom. So they brought me into a past on newsroom and it was like a small newsroom.

So every time a journal, a reporter didn't show up, I was covering for that. I was like, me, I'll write it, even if it's like a crash from the court or whatever. I'll write it. So I started like working my way up there, but I always having an ear out and my eyes open to see what's going on in the cartel where and all that stuff. And I remember my first, if you call it, investigation, which was kind of like shitty, you know, but my first story about that was how some of the cartels in Silat-Quattas were trying to recruit kids on a

Metroflog social network, social media, which metroflog was huge back then in Mexico. There was no Facebook or Twitter. It was just like metroflog. What year was that? I think it was 2007. 2007. Some like that, 2007, I'm 34. I'm about to 35. Okay. So I started like someone young, you know, like writing about this stuff. My editor saw my page and it was like, this seems like, you know, like a conspiracy theory, unless you bring me some proof.

So I brought a lot of proof, a lot of links between this Metroflog user, his decent dad, and he killed decent dad. And he's like, holy shit, you have aog user, his, this and that, and he killed this and that. And he's like, holy shit, you have a story there, man, yeah, let's run it. And it was a front page of the newspaper. So it was like, I liked that feeling, but at the same time, it made me, because I was so young, until naive, until, you know, like, to into it. I made some mistakes. I started writing about how corrupt the Mexican police were

and how were they dealing information between the military, the federal, local police, not a course. Even the DA was involved in that shit. So I started writing about this woman who was a police officer and she was like trafficking information because she was like, good-looking. So she was like trafficking information because she was like, um, good looking. So she was like literally fucking everybody and trafficking information around.

And that was, uh, my editor was like, okay, we're gonna run that in the front page, but we're not gonna put your name into it. And I'm like, why not, man, it's my story. I mean, you should. And it's like, you sure, I, it's my story. I mean, you shoul. And it's like, you're sure, I obviously didn't understand what that meant. So, you wrote a protection. Exactly. And so, we did, and I got kidnapped by the local police in Tio Aquattas. You got kidnapped by a local officer. And it was like, it was when I knew that I was into deep shit and it was not a game, you know,

I left my girlfriend at her house, was driving back to, I still live with my parents, driving back to my parents' house, the middle of the night, and I got stopped by a, first, like, a traffic police. And I'm like, wow, I'm not even, you know, doing anything, but I guess he's mistaking. So he told me, like, hey, you just run that red light. And a huge street. And I'm like, I did not, man. I mean, you just run that red light. And a huge three.

And I'm like, I did not, man. I mean, I'm watching the red light. And he's like, no, you did. Can I see your license? Normally, yeah. Correppin' license, kind of laughed. Said something on the radio like codes. And then gave me my license.

He's like, ah, you're good to go. And I'm like, all right, that was weird. Keep driving. And ride in front of that, like, you're good to go. And I'm like, all right, that was weird. Keep driving and ride in front of that, to police, pick up trucks just like cross my way, to start knocking with their guns in my window. It's like, get the fuck down, get the fuck down. And I'm like, all right. And I thought again, I think they're mistaking.

Everybody's nervous because it's like the war, and you can see that what is between cartels where it's just starting. And I'm like, I think they're mistaking, they're nervous because it's like the war, the war, the Juicy del Juarez between Cartel's watch is starting. And I'm like, I think they're mistaking their nervous because of everything that's going on in the city. So I grabbed my badge like from the newspaper and put it like behind my shirt. And it's like, we got, this is like,

we got the journalist, yeah, it's him. All right, bye. And then it's like starting like sending quotes. And I'm like, oh shit. And I'm like, dude got the journalist, yeah, it's him. All right, bye. And then it started sending quotes. And now, oh shit. And I'm like, dude, you can take everything. You take my car. If you want money, I have some money, I can go to the ATM, get some money,

and just leave me alone. And they're like, no, no, no, you just fucked up. You know what you did. And you fucked up, you'll get this time. And I'm like, I have no clue, man. I'm cool. And so they tie my hands and fit, put me in the back of a truck or the pickup truck. They put their fit like on top of me,

you know, in my chest. And they started driving off and someone else took my car. And it was like 11 p.m. like in the middle of the night. We went to theed parking lot and then they stopped there and then they asked me to run And I'm like, I'm not gonna rock. I know what's gonna happen. I'm gonna run You're gonna shoot me and then you're gonna say what's a confusion or I had a gun or you thought I was decent that or some shit like that so I was like I'm running man and I knew for that source That the local police and the federal police were fighting between each other because one was supporting one curtail

and the other one had a deal with another one. So I saw a combi of federalist driving by and I started jumping to see, I told him I was cold because he was in the middle of the winter. So I started jumping and saying like, and they're like, what the fuck are you doing? I'm like, I'm trying to get some heat marks. I'm freezing.

And they're like, they just like kick me and they're like, hey, get on the fucking floor. I know what you're doing. And then the other guy was like, watch out the fox. That was the code for the Ferrala, like, fox. Watch it with the fox. And then the Ferrala, let's convoy, just left. Just passed by, and I'm like,

fuck. And I remember I got my knees inside. Like, if you're going to do this, then just fucking do it. And I was thinking, like, if my colleagues at the newspaper investigate this, they're going to find out I was executed. And I wasn't doing something else, because I was on my knees. And I was like, that's how something else because I was on my knees. And I was like, that's how am I gonna get on my knees.

At the end, I don't remember like being screaming or yelling, but they say that I was. I was like, stop fucking yelling, stop. And I'm like, I'm not yelling man, just asking you for a favor. And I was like, you're in no position to ask for anything. And I'm like, I can't bring you money. I can bring you so many and just give me two hours.

And then we'll play, you know, Cat and Mouse again. He said, no, but one of them was like, what if we and then start talking coats, but I could understand that, what if we actually get some money from out of them? and then we end up catching him again and killing him. And I said yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, do that, let's do that, let's do that. Then the other elite started fighting each other and then the commanders are like, all right, get up, go to an ATM and I'm like, there's your wallet.

And I'm like, no, there's your wallet. And I'm like, all right. And I'm like, just give me your word. You're not gonna shoot me in the back while I'm walking. And it's like, you don't, you're in no position to us, my friendy. So if you wanna go, go, if you're not, don't go. And I'm like, okay, I'll go.

And I started walking and I felt like, shit, this is it, they're gonna fucking shut me off the back. I hit a main street, went to an ATM, I had two cards on me, because there was a follow on you. No one was following me, I could just run and leave, but they had my address, my car plates, all of my documentation, and as I was like, of course they're gonna try and look for me in my house

You know or my family or something like that. Yeah, so I went try to play it cool God 12,000 pesos, which is nothing 600 bucks. That's that was a limit of both my cards that I cool withdrawal Got back and so like, counter is 12,000 pesos. And it's like, I'm gonna trust you. Getting your car, make sure you're not missing anything. And I'm like, I don't even care. There's like, no, please, make sure you're not missing anything

because this is not a robbery. This is not what we want to, you know, say that we're rubbing you. Please look into your car, look into your wallet, you have everything. Yes. All right. You have two hours. We're going to be looking for you again. So that same night, I crossed a border state in El Paso for a good while for like nine, nine months, I think, without being able to actually get back into糟. That was like traumatic, you know? I was like, shit, I can't see my city from here, but I can't cross, I can't get back.

And I have a sore, and I had a sore as back then, a guy who was with me in secondary school, and we were like good friends, and then he went off to the other side of the coin, you know, he went on the bat side, and he would like tell me how the whole cartel works and like a lot of stuff, he will talk about a lot of stuff and he called me on my, we used to have like these next-till radios, I don't know if you remember those, like they were like very happy to make me go back then. So he ringed my radio and I was like,

hey, what's up, man? It's like, hey, what are you doing? I'm like, nothing working. And it was like, where are you? And I'm in a puzzle. And it was like, I learned that you can't get back to Juarez. What happened? And I like, I didn't tell anyone, anyone.

I talked to the owner of the newsroom of the paper and I told him like, I don't want anything like, please. And he was like, no, I need to call the mayor of the city like, what is to give you protection and this and that. I'm like, please don't, just don't tell anyone, anyone, please. And then he's like, all right, I won't do anything. I won't say anything. What you're going to do is you you're gonna file a complaint with human rights just so you have preceding, you know, like a background in case somebody happens. And I'm like, all right, I'll do that, and I did that, but didn't tell anyone just my family. And so I was like, hmm, how did the guy, this guy pumped out?

And he was like, anyways, I don't know why you don't want to tell me we're friends and everything, but be looking out in the news, like you're gonna be surprised. And I'm like, all right, so I can watch the news for the next days. And one of those days, in the same spot, they closed my road. Those police officer were shot killed, right there. Really?

And so I stopped communication with that guy. I was like, dude, that's not, I mean, we're not friends because of that, you know, like I'm completely different than that. I'm older than that. Not in the business of having people killed. Yeah. Actually, on the other side of the coin,

trying to make people just keep their lives. And so, yeah, it was pretty damn hardcore. So I had a chance there to get out, to keep writing. And I was like, OK, I need to step up. I need to be more careful. That's why you study some of this shit. That's when you've got a college.

And that's why you learn. But right there, it was just starting the ugliest part of the history of Silat Juarez, where the killings were. It was the most violent city in the world. You know, they killed five friends of mine like it was like hell And I was just in the bridge of that so so I had to cover all that war Writing for most international organizations about what was going on in Seattle at Quattas at the same time Figuring out how to protect myself like how to have a protocol

Security protocols and all that stuff. Other stuff we know now in Mexico, it's just like basic stuff in journalism, you know, like safety protocols and all that stuff. But back then, we weren't used to that. So I learned how to work in that, in that time. Where was your family at, at the time you were kidnapped? In Mexico, really?

In Mexico, In Mexico? My family was in Mexico, but they live in a guided community with security cards. And it's like a bubble into that Juarez. Most of the business owners, like the biggest business owners in the city, or in the state, they leave their politicians, all kind of people. So they're very well protected. They still have to leave, though, right? They have to leave their politicians, all of all of the kind of people. So they're very well protected. They still have to leave, though, right? They have to leave their bubble.

Yeah, they've got to work. Exactly, they've got to work, exactly. I told them, I told them like, this might be dangerous to you. You might be in danger, too, because on my ID is that address, that we're like, you be safe, we'll be good. And I'm like, all right, that's, I mean, they're like that. They're just weird.

Yeah. And so yeah, my left soul, my sister left her to pass it to, but both my parents stayed in quite a, they did. Wow, what's an expert in that? Yeah. It was. What's not expecting that. Yeah, it was. It was not expecting that. Yeah, man.

Basically, that's how I started. I mean, I started learning the bad way, you know. But it helped a lot. I've been doing this for 12 years now. So yeah, I learned a lot. Well, how long was it after you got kidnapped before you started going back? Like, about nine months? That's it? Just nine months?

Yeah, because when that guy asked me to watch the news and I saw those guys wear that, it was like a mixed feeling, you know, because he was like, I don't want to be a part of that. I don't want to feel the responsibility for those lives. But at the same time, it's like, I feel like I can't go back now. You know, like they cut rate of those guys, so I can't, I can actually go back to my city. And I started like, I didn't like, when all the way back, I started like going for a couple of hours, getting back, and then going a couple of more hours, then getting back. Yeah. And then I was like, all right,

I feel good to get back to leaving to the quest. You didn't feel like that was coming from higher to kidnap you and eventually kill you. You didn't think that was coming from higher, you think that may have been just those two tops or you... No, definitely, I definitely cool tell that it was coming from higher

But not that high. I think it was coming from specifically that girl So she was like a commander Okay, and because I I had her phone number so And I had access to some of her text messages so I I think I I stepped up to deep, you know, I think that's not what investigative journalism is. I just went to deep because I thought that was journalism, but it wasn't. That didn't stop you because you're not your

yeah exactly. So how long was it after you got kidnapped before you started kind of doing these stories again, where you were embedded and things started getting a little dicey? So the whole hell broke loose into the quarter. We had like 13 murders a day, reported, plus those on reported. a day reported, plus those on reported. And I started working for like two jobs and college. So I was, I bought a motorcycle so I can actually made it on time to college.

And that's the newsroom in El Paso. And at the same time, I had to cover for Efe, which is like an international news based out of Spain. And they will ask me to go to every single murder scene to report on that. So I will be driving all over town. Like sometimes I will report for El Diario Enopazo remotely.

I will write a feature story, but be reporting like certain 10 murders a into the Aquares. And that was very basic, but I learned a lot because I wasn't really investigating. I was just like covering like a red, what we call the red note, the notarroja. They kill five cops here. They kill 15 kids here.

They kill, but it was like that. But you get your brain thinking and connecting the dots and it's like, oh shit, this murder might be connected to that stuff and to these and to that investigation and you start thinking. And I started like coming out with some proper features, you know, on the investigation. And again, I think that that was like to raw of a journalism. It wasn't like proper stuff, but it was like the beginning of trying to put together stuff and trying to explain what's going on. But it was hard for me to at the time, so I was into the living that city

to see the bigger picture. Like this is something else, then curtell's killing each other. But that was my main question. That's been my main question all through these years, man. Like like, still to today, what the hell is going on in Mexico? What is really happening? How does this world really works? Because I don't believe in the thing that is a turf wire between cocktails. So they were asking you to go and basically cover every single murder that happened in Juarez. Did you just say they were doing 13-13-14 murders a day?

How long were you doing that for? Three years. Three years. So you've seen thousands of dead bodies that have been murdered. Yeah. So my question is, is it all cartel or cartel crime? Or what is the motive to kill somebody down there? When it's, if it's just a regular person

who's not involved in the cartel, why are they getting murdered by the cartel? There's a lot of, you know, like the drug business involves a lot of people, not only dealers or cartel members, it involves lawyers, it involves business owners, it involves journalists, it involves a set of people. So sometimes when you see like,

oh shit, they killed this woman and she used to be a teacher, I'm not saying she was into the business directly, but sometimes they will try to extort her because they needed more money to get more weapons. So it was like, okay, she's driving an ice car. Let's try to extor her. And they will show up, ask for money,

she will call the police, she will get killed because of the police was working with the cartel. So sometimes it's like that. There's been confusions, like I don't know of you, heard about the killing of two employees of the US Consulate in Tuyo Tahuarez, a man and his wife, with a young girl in the back. about the killing of two employees of the US consolidating to U.S. Huatis, a man and his wife with a young girl in the back. And I had access to recording that the DA was doing

on those guys. The DA was doing surveillance on that group of the hotel, the Huatis Cartel. They were listening to recordings, they were like taping the phones and radios. And I got access to that and I learned how they work and it's shitty, you know, they don't have a system. They'll just say like, okay, so the hit is dark hair at mail in white SUV. That's it.

And they have people all over the city. So that guy started receiving a bunch of rings from his people. It's like, okay, so I got black hair at mail with woman, white SUV right here. It's like, all right, okay, go for it. Five minutes later, it's like, hey, I have white SUV, go for it. Five minutes later, it's like, hey, I have

what ACB? Dark hair man with a child. Oh shit, we have another one. Just go for the two of them. So they just kill anybody that fits the description. Yeah, they're not, you know, they're just just blanking. Yeah. After like four or five rings on different people, it's like, okay, I have some other info. It has it's called the El Paso They called it in code work Parque so they don't tell the Paso so it has plates from El Parque So it's like oh, okay, so it's not my target. This has like Mexican plates. All right, bye and so they narrowed down to

El Paso plates, which is half of the city of Ciudad Juarez. So, Texas Plates. I learned that there's a lot of people innocent. They just killed just to put a description. Exactly. What about just regular crime? It's not in Cartel related. How much of that is just regular crime? You know, that's not cartel related. How much of that is just regular crime?

It's usually regular crime is not using firearms. Like they're not using, they're using like, if they use a firearm, it will be like a small firearm. You know, like it's not even gonna be like a nine millimeter. Okay. Nine is definitely cartel related. Two, 23 cartel related, 23 cartel related, all that stuff, it's cartel related. The other guys, sometimes they don't even kill you because they want to mug you, because they know they're going to get some heat and they know that if they got arrested, they're

going to put some other charges on them like a lot, you know, going to be like, organized crime. And this guy had like two kills of heroin and this and that. And he was just like a regular fucking mugger that was trying to get your phone. So, yeah, that's... Now, the local drug business, like the street selling, that's huge. That's a huge business in Huatta since the street selling. That's huge. That's a huge business in Juarez since the 90s. And that's why you have a bunch of sellers getting killed,

getting murder, getting threats, getting crazy. Just last night I saw a video of two women being tortured and killed in a place called, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, and killed in a place called Quotem, Quotemok, a few hours from Huatis. And everybody's like, their teachers, why were they murdered? But in the video I saw, they were interrogating them.

And I was like, who do you work for? And they're like, this guy. And what are you doing? We're selling. And who are you selling to? I was selling in this spot. So it's like, damn, and sometimes like people you don't even think about are into some shit, you know, somehow. Well then you start to get, so you start to report on all these murders and then, it sounds like that wasn't really enough for you. So you wanted to get more into the investigation,

investigative type stories. And that can be hard to bust into. So I'm kind of curious, you know, how it is that you started developing sources and assets and informants or whatever you call them in the journalism world. You know, and from what I've found is once it can be real hard to get in, but once you find one that

opens the door for everybody. Yeah. And so I'm just curious to see, you know, how you kind of developed your first asset. Or what do you call them? Do you call them that sources? Sources. Sources. How did you develop your first source? or what do you call them? Do you call them? Source. Source. How did you develop your first source? Well, my first source was actually this friend,

I was just telling you about, we were in secondary school and we grew up together, we lived nearby, we just hang out together, and then he started going to that world and started writing. I remember at one time we were drinking at my place and we were like super smashed. And I told him like, you know that there's gonna be

a time where, or worlds are gonna meet not in the best way, right? And he's like, yeah, and he, I remember, he gave me a hug and he's like, you're still gonna be my friend, no matter what, man. Like you're gonna be my friend. Sometimes I guess I'm gonna have to stop talking to you. And sometimes I guess you're gonna step on my toes,

but I'll keep doing my job and you'll keep doing yours. So we started like splitting, but even then, he will introduce me to other guy, you know, like, hey man, come over. I'm like, all right. I will show up in a house with armed people, and you know, I was like, okay, so this is a place he wants to show me.

And then he introduced me to one of the bosses, you know, like, hey, this is dad, and this is my cousin, his journalist, and he's like, hey, then making like jokes about me reporting is like, just don't report this shit, okay? And I'm like, now man, like, making like jokes about me reporting is like, just don't report this shit, okay? And I'm like, now man, like honestly, I'm here, just like, you know, like regular person. Um, most of those guys, you get them either by drinking,

doing drugs or party. The party is where you make bonds, that work. If you don't party, you're not gonna get access to any of that shit. And you're gonna look like something else. You're gonna look like, so why is it doing what is it doing here? What is it want? You see a DA? Because everybody in Mexico thinks like everybody's fucking DA. I'm sorry, I did it. So yeah, the party, it was what made the bun so I have my toes, you know, party. Sometimes my wife, she knows what I do.

She doesn't really know any details of what I am doing until my story is published. And even then, she doesn't really know the details or the big stories. But at the beginning, she was like, it's fucking 3 a.m. and you're not answering. Yeah. And I'm like, you're gonna have to trust me in this one because I'm not doing something else than working and having a blast with these guys.

And sometimes I will get home like super wasted, high on code,, stuff like that. But that's what will open doors. That will open doors. Do you enjoy it? I mean, it's a good time. No, yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. Party is party. Sometimes it's just too much. Sometimes it becomes a place where you start having a back trip, sort of, you know, like when you are drunk and all fussy and confused, and you're like, what the fuck am I doing here?

Like, these people, I don't relate to these people at all. What they're talking, what they're saying. I don't know, I just can't find a common place between us. Where are you guys partying, are you partying? Most of the houses. Yeah, most of the time it's particular houses. Like houses that they have, sometimes bars, but not really, because... Very private.

Yeah, very private stuff. Yeah, sometimes it's just like a small party, sometimes it's just like a, you know, not even like an overnight or whatever, a couple of beers, having fun, shots or whatever, and then they'll be like, okay, that's it, I'm good. And because they see that you are into that, they feel comfortable with you. And it's harder for a Mexican journalist to get access into a Mexican criminal organization because when they see you're from somewhere else, they will say, okay, I like this guy because if I can't compare him, it's not DA or whatever, it's cool that he's here, that he's interesting and interested in this and he's going to go report whatever. But they feel they can trust him more

because he's not gonna be working with a local police or with another cartel, that kind of shit. What is the motivation to have an investigative journalist at the party with the cartels that you're saying that they trust you? I mean, why the fuck would a cartel trust an investigative novelist? I guess, I guess, because it's not, I have never done something or written about something. They don't know I'm going to write.

You know, I'm full disclaimer. If I'm there, partying with them, I'm there, partying with them. Learning, I'm finding my way through to get access and trust of them. But I'm not going to report on that. I'm not going to say anything I hear in that party, I'm not going to report on that. I'm going to write on that. I'm going to say anything because I know that's going to cost me. And they know that's gonna cost me, you know? And they know that.

I think they can feel that I'm transparent and that I'm not here to snitch to you, man. I'm here to actually party with you, to get to know you, to ask some questions for me, for myself, to know what, it's gonna be my next steps. And then when I want to write a story, when I need something,

then I will reach out full transparency. I will be like, I'm writing a story about this. Do you feel comfortable sharing something with me? And there was a like, no, at all, man, I cannot give you an interview. And I'm like, I mean, wonder what circumstances will you feel comfortable giving me an interview?

And there's like no face, no name, no these, no that. And then I'll work that, you know, it's an negotiation. It's like, amen. Okay, I'm not gonna put your name, your face. I really need to write that you are part of that organization in this place. It's that doable. And it's like, I don't know, man. So we start like talking about that. And then sometimes they say yes. Sometimes they say no, not at all. And when they say no, it's an up. Yeah. Rather lose a story.

No. I guess my question is, what is the motivation for them? Of what do they get out of it? Why would they even want anything in the news at all? It's the information to you at all. It's different in the two organizations, and that's an interesting side of it. The Huat Eskertel, Super Hermetic,

they don't share anything. It's super hard to break inside the Huat Eskertel because they don't feel motivated at all to talk, to say anything. They just don't give a fuck. They actually go the other way. They're like, no man. You have to have solid sources inside.

They have to trust you a lot. And even then, I found that most of them will just like talk broadly on stuff, you know? But the synagogue at the El, they almost have like these PR office, they really want to be out there. They want to be out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they.

What is it for recruiting or? I think it's just to make a point. To make a point where it's still on top, we're still on top of the game. So it's to flex. It's a spread fear. Exactly. To the other cartels,

to the public in general. General Mexican top. Yeah, it's just like a flexing move, you know? Like we're to the public in general. General Mexican top. Yeah, it's just like a flexing move, you know, like we're still, we're still the back guys here. And whenever I ask for access there, I have a great source in Tineloa that I really trust and he really trusts me and we're friends. And he helps me a lot, like a lot.

Every time I ask him for crazy shit, man. Like, I've asked him for crazy stuff. And it's like, man, can you help me out with this? He knows that when he's phone rings, I think he rolls his eyes like, oh my god, he comes again. You know? Because I push and I push hard, because that's my job, you know I'm not gonna take just like no, we can do that. All right. Bye man. Sorry

It's like how can we do this? How can I tell this story man? How can you help me out? I need these profiles specifically I need to find a person that talks to me and I know about these Why how can we do that and when this is like no? No? No? No? No? No? No? I was like okay. Why, how can we do that? And when this is like, no, no, no, no, no. I was like, okay, what if I show up there? We just have a drink and talk it over, but in person. Not over the phone, not over signal, or telegram or whatever.

Just right there. And then we call it from there. And 90% of the time it works. 90% of the time it's like, all right, let's go. Start to him. say what he says. To be honest, also some of them ask for money. Some of them they try to get some money out of that. How much money?

Not that much, but it depends. It depends on the access, it depends on the days, it depends on the person. 100,000, 10,000. Yeah, no, 100, no. 1000 dollars, thousands of dollars, they would ask for money. Sometimes it's not even for them, but it's like to pay the employees, you know? Of course, this is like, I'm telling you, this is full disclaimer, I'm very transparent

what I do. Most of the times I try not to, I try not to, because it's not ethical and it cannot be real what they're telling you if their motivation is money. But sometimes I've worked like that. I've worked like that when I see that what I need basically is veerol, you know? I don't need info, I need veerol, I need a bunch of a matchery of guns or training of these and that. You want video assets for your stories.

And it's a home. And any like to be real, you know? Not fake guns or whatever, like to be real. So you just totally immerse yourself into the narco culture to gain their trust, to experience it, so you understand it better. How long are you, when you do, immerse yourself. What would you say, what's the longest you've immerse yourself down there within some of these cartels before coming up and going back home

and checking in with the wife and kid? Not too long, I try to have a type of safety protocol. I don't tell my wife what I'm going or what I'm doing. too long I try to have a type of safety protocol. So I don't tell my wife what I'm going or what I'm doing, like specifics, but she knows that I constantly ring. And she's my, it's crazy because I do that protocol with some friends, with some journalists and with associations of journalists

and protect journalists in Mexico. When I know I'm going to be into deep. I bring on them and say like, man, can we start like a protocol? They're like, yeah. So the protocol is like, bring me every two hours or half an hour. Or if you're going to be out all day,

just in one part of the day before midnight, you're going to have to bring me back. And so like, okay, I'm back at the hotel, I'm safe. And I'm like, okay, but my safety net is my wife, because she can feel the threat or the danger beforehand. She knows that when I'm not feeling comfortable, I tend to call her a lot, not texture, not WhatsApp. I tend to call her a lot, not text her, not WhatsApp, I tend to call her a lot, like a long call

or the night, in the morning, when I have breakfast, and she feels that, she feels like, okay, this guy's not feeling good about what he's doing right now. He's might be in danger. Yeah. So she knows that I call being dangerous, so she tries to ring more often. So you're checking in at least at least once a day?

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've never been more than one day. Like I've had a I have the case like the scenario where it's like okay We're gonna go into that place no cell phones decent that but I try also to negotiate my Side, you know like not to go fool on and it's like, yeah, whatever you say. It's like, no, man, no, no phones. It's not a go for me. Are they, are they first getting you? Are they searching you before? I just had one time. Just had one time. Yeah, I just had one time with a guy in Sonora that he searched me. He grabbed my phone.

He applied for me. Well, at the beginning, his employee put a thing on my eyes, but he thought it was to this respectful. It was like, no, no, no, no, this was preferable for the journalists here. Just let's do this. Grab your hands, put your head down, all the road, just look down. That's it. Even then I cool know where I was because I

sort of like, you know, I knew that we crossed like a train track. I've heard a checkpoint, a police checkpoint. I could count the street lights passing then a dirt road. So I sort of know where I was at the time. I didn't like that. I didn't really like that at all. I was like, no man, I'm not gonna do this shit again. Cause we were there and then he had,

it was incredible man, he was. And the story is in Netflix, it's a show called Dope. And if you see the Mexico side of that series, they didn't do any of the U.S. side, the other Mexican side. You will see a scene where we arrive at a house and there's this narco and it says like, so this is my stash house. And I was like, all right, that small house right there's this narco and it says like so this is my stash house and I was like all right

That small house right there. It was like an old man with a ticate you know like drinking And it's like yeah, and I'm like, but there's nothing like the fuck to see this and it's like no I'm not that superman. Hey guys. Can you open up the stash? So it was like they started like putting dirt out with a shovel and then we will have a carpet and then behind a carpet you will have a door like an iron door. It will open that and there was like a stairs and it was like a non-ver ground stash house packed with, it was weed and pop in that style house. But it was like floor to roof,

you know, like full of that stuff. And they had their Oliver accounting and inventory, everything. Everything, like, yeah. So it was under the house. Under the house. But you couldn't tell, because it was like a small house in the middle of nowhere

and it was like dirt, just like that. We were actually stepping into like on top of that. So we went out, we went out there, we filmed everything with filming interview and all that stuff and then we went up again and then he received a call on his radio, someone telling him that one of the security rings was breached by a convoy of Ferrerales. And he's like, okay, so my fifth ring got compromised. Let's wait here, give me your ID.

I'll keep all of your IDs. If something happens, if they break into the second ring, it's on you guys. And I'm like, okay, I mean, it's not gonna be an osman. We're not even, we don't have cell phones. It's, I mean, no, there's no way. And he's like, I don't care what you say, man. If they breach, second rank, it's gonna be in you.

And I'm like, all right. So it was like a 10s, because it's like, okay, they breach into the fourth ring. And then they reached the third ring And I was like fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck and they they stopped that up burritos place to eat burritos No, I'm eating burritos I am a skinner and He's like all right, that's good for you. All right. There you go. Let's go I mean it's like all right that's good for you. All right there you go. Let's go. Give these guys an extra burrito. Excited.

Yes man it was intense that time. So you're really embedded with these guys. Yeah. Well let's take a quick break and when we come back I want to get into some of these arms trafficking deals that you were a part of and we're able to report on. Yeah sure. deals that you were a part of and we're able to report on. Sure. Do it for a short minute. Alright, so we're going to get into some arms trafficking stuff and before I do we had a good conversation at breakfast today about, I cannot believe that you don't carry a gun

and I couldn't believe it when you told me, when we were talking earlier today about some of the stuff that you've been doing and that you've been involved with and who you're embedding with, then we get in the studio here and we start recording and tell me you've been kidnapped. Yeah. And so that blows my mind that you're not carrying into each zone.

But before we kind of get into the arms trafficking stuff, I'm really curious, without the, if I wanted to go down to Mexico, how hard would it be for me to illegally acquire some type of a firearm? Well, definitely be easier than to acquire like a real arm. It's not that hard, man. Like, Mexico always flaut it with guns.

Like, they're all over. It's very easy. You need to know someone. And you can get one. Many of the cartels now, what they're doing is they are renting firearms. You don't even have to buy it. That will take you into a warehouse and you're a hitman, but you don't own a gun. So you go to that warehouse and say like, how much for these gun, two hours or two days?

And it's like, it's going to be, I don't know, 2000 pesos, 4000 pesos, hey, how much for these gun two hours or two days? And it's like, it's gonna be, I don't know, 2000 pesos, 4,000 pesos, 12,000 pesos. You rented? You rented. You rent the web. Yes. And then you go, take a hit, get back, and deliver back the gun to that same warehouse.

Have you seen these warehouses? Yes, I've seen those warehouses. What's the selection like? Like what do they have? A kinds of shit, they have a bunch of 9 millimeters, a bunch of shidi-ri-bolbers, you know, like these old revolvers. They have AKs, they have what the Mexican military uses, which is the 223, I don't know what kind of rifle is, but the bullets are 223. It's in stun. It's probably some type of an M4 ARST.

Yeah, exactly. Something like that. It's like something long. They have that kind of stuff. Those guys who rent those kind of guns, it's like all guns. They're like sort of manipulated in some way. They're not like new pristine state guns,

it's like ugly, ugly weaponry. And I guess it's like the second life they give to guns they used in like bigger scales of the cartel, you know? Yeah. Well, when you go in these warehouses, is it all organized? Is everything on the wall? Or is it, hey, look at the trunk of my car.

And there's just a whole bunch of. No, I mean, the warehouse I've been into, there are in Juarez, downtown Juarez. Imagine downtown Juarez. Imagine the city, border city, of 1.4 million people leaving there, not a beautiful city, kind of a shade one. Imagine a market in downtown, crowded, a lot of people, you know, like a regular market

selling fruits, selling a lot of shit, Madison and a lot of stuff. People screaming, people yelling, cars going into, you know, like small alleys. And in between all that, it's a store, a regular store selling sneakers, you know, like fake, Nike, sneakers, fake, whatever. With a man outside, sound like, hey, come, got some sneakers, 20 bucks for the pair and whatever. But if you arrive there with the right guy, he'll be like, man, his women, all right.

And then you just go to the backpack store. And there's a warehouse, which is around like about this big, it's not like a huge warehouse, not small. And you have guns all over. You've got guns like laying there, like just in the wall, right there, on the floor, and on a ugly table,

he can't find sometimes, you know, like the gun he's looking for, is like, I know I have an AK, like an UAK around here, so he's like- Rommage you're in a round. And then he finds like the AK, he's like, oh yeah, here it is, can't find the charges, oh, he's looking for the charger.

I'll duct tape, oh yeah, here it is. Can't find the charges, oh, I'm just looking for the charger. I'll duct tape, you know, because it's not properly working or fitting. Yeah, it's one of those places. And I'm like, wow, and you're like, so you sell these guns and it's like, nah, we actually rent them. And while I was there in the middle of the day, like 2 p.m., a guy showed in.

And he's like, man, hey, you just need two guns's like, Hey man, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, you should need two guns. Like hang on, whatever you have, but for now, not like need a now. And he's like, did you talk to whatever? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I talked to him and, yeah. All right, it's gonna be decent that. I already paid that guy.

Let me give him a call. Hey man, this guy here, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it's a good, he paid. All right, see you. Here you go. Suzerall, hip man, coming in. Oh, yeah. good hit, all right. See you, there you go. So these are all hitmen coming in there. Oh, yeah. Low-level hitmen, they're not like, you know,

there's like also some hitmen that are like very prepared. Most of them working for law enforcement in Mexico. Okay. Do these guys, do they have any rituals or traditions they do before they go on a head? Like when I was in I used to live in Columbia, I used to live in Medellin and they have a church that they would go and all the assassins would go pray at that specific church before they would go on a head and Is it like that in Mexico, too? Do they get... Togando a bit de los hicarios, right?

Yeah. Togando a little in Colombia. No, I mean, in Mexico, it depends, like, Sinaloa, it's Jesús Malberde is huge. He's the saint of drug traffickers. He's a legend. And they go, and sometimes they will have to, like, on their houses, they will have, like on their houses they will have like a small

Paul Tar for Jesus Malberte where they drop cigarettes, booze, drugs, offerings. There is a huge Jesus Malberte altar in the middle of the of a road where they go also and offer stuff for him. Many of them, that was kind of new in 2010, we started watching new Santa Muerte churches in Juarez. And I went to all of them, you know, I'm curious like that. So I was like, what the hell? This is a fucking Santa Muerta full on church. So I was interested in what was going on in there. And it's crazy, man, it just doesn't make sense. Not disrespectful, but it's just like to meek with Catholicism, they will pray some of the parts of the Holy Father by the

Nuestro Plavila and in the middle of that they will say something like Santa Carida Santa Muerte niña blanca no se quedes in that and I'm like wow that's that seems like bullshit you know but but many of them believe in the Santa Muerte and it started developing in 2010 and quarter because the north of Mexico that was not a tradition in the north of Mexico. That was a tradition in the center and south of Mexico for centuries but when the militaries and the federalists started arriving in the city they brought with them some of their culture so they started like setting

up you know churches and all that stuff. Is that translated the saying of the dead? Yes, the Santa Morita is the holy death. And it's this skeleton dressed as the holy Mary, like with a thing. Yeah. But it's a skeleton. And it has the host's skull. Yeah. I don't know what it's called, I know what you're saying. And it has the host's call. Yeah.

I don't know what it's called, I know what you're saying. The cycle. Exactly. Yeah. The Spanish is called Wadania. Right. So yeah, it's interesting. So they, some of them have those rituals.

I can tell that most of them, when they pray or have a Santa Muerte, they are related to law enforcement. Most of the time, not all of them, because I've watched some stash houses where they are, like, not law enforcement related, secarios, and they will have a small Santa Muerte in a corner. So, and I know that Sinhalo is huge for Jesus Malverde. A U.S. artist, I took him to Sinhalo to take some pictures of the narco culture and all that stuff. And he is called Charles Kraft and he makes ceramic art amazing. And he gave me a bust of Jesus Mal Malberde on ceramic, like this big.

And I have it in my living room right there. What is that? The, what are you saying? It's like a figure of Kissuz Malberde, made out of ceramic. You know, it's a painter like very beautiful. He was, that was like his thanks to me. You know, like it was like thank you for taking me to Sinai Loa

to make some crazy-yes pictures on the knuckle-courture and I'm gonna give you this. So I have it on my living room, on my TV room. You know, it's like right there on top of everything. And I love it, but sometimes where people shows up on my place and it's like, oh wow, what do you have? I said, it's my better day on your head. And I'm like, it's to work a far.

It's just the first of 10. There's only 10 in the world and it has a value. It works something, but it has also a value to me inside that culture. That's cool. It's interesting. Yeah. Let's get into some of these arm deals. inside that culture. That's cool. It's interesting. Let's get into some of these arms deals.

Yeah, so by the time we talk about the, like a sum call, remember? Right after that I traveled to Sinaloa to meet with some arms traffickers. Well, I traveled to Sinaloa and then to Mexicali because the route is the US border towns like Calexico, El Paso, Tijuana, San Diego, and then south. Either Tijuana, Mexicali or Ciudad Juarez. And then down to San Aloa, Durango Sonora. And so I met with these guys. I explained them that I wanted to understand. How was the arms still flowing south,

still after fast and furious, still after a tight gun controlled in Mexico? Still after all of that, I've got border closed. How you managed to actually still bring up, bring in like huge guns, I showed you some pictures on what they look and I was like, what the hell is this one? It's like that's a grenade launcher, right?

That is a M203 grenade launcher that fires a 40 millimeter basically explosive. It's like how does these guys get a hold of some shit like that, you know? Yeah, it's like heavy weaponry they have and they just show me the the basic, you know, so So I once just in all of them they took me to this place a proper house where they have some of, you know, like gold, nine millimeters, gold AK47, they used a lot, these stuff called, the Racco, which is like a short AK.

Like, I don't know if you know, I don't know if, I mean, they call it the Racco down in Mexico. Yeah, I mean, here they would just call it an AK. An AK, right? It's like a short version of the BKK. They have a bunch of them, some of them like all golden, very flashy stuff. And I follow the road to the US. So in the US, in places like California or Texas,

they will just buy a gun with a permit, someone like me or like you. And the guy is clean. He has his own guns, but he's selling all the guns to the cartel, to cartel members. What he needs is just like a report of the guns he's sold so he can show ATF, like sold guns, because I have a permit to sell guns out of my own home, out of my own place. What they do with that, I just don't give a fuck. So I don't know if the ATF actually tracks those buyers or not. But these guys are like, and I know for a fact

many of those guns are ending up in Mexico. Really? So, how they traffic stuff is, they disample, the guns, and they put small parts inside like all refrigerators, a stove, you know, an old living room or whatever, and they were like, oh, just moving back to Huatas from El Paso. And I'm going to pay my taxes for my stuff to get into Mexico.

So they will pay that, go in, and then they have like these workshops where they're putting everything together again. I went to one of those in Mejikali. I think one of the videos I shared is one of those places. You will see like a table with a bunch of cons. That's how the cons that are ready to go. They are like a sample back again. And then from there they go to Sinaloa, like by plane, by truck. Sometimes even by sea when they

are in the in Bajarí fornia, they travel through the Mar de Cortes all the way to the Sinhaloa coast. And that's where they were for that told me that's where the heavy weaponry is going through. Like, why does it go there? So I think it's easier to navigate the sea than to actually you know like ride. Okay, so they go there and then it's dispersed. Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, they go. Most of them go to Xinaloa and then from there, they end up even in Central America, place like Honduras, Guatemala. They trade that for drugs or for, you know,

like when they don't have a payment for a big lot of coke, they will say like, okay, we'll give you guns, you keep the coke and we'll take it north and sell it. So sometimes it's like a trade. Those guns are fucking everywhere, man. It's really, it's really confusing to see that many guns and that easy access in Mexico, a place where it's impossible to get a proper firearm like myself.

I mean, to me to get a hold of a firearm in Mexico, it will be super hard. I will have to be in a hunting club or go through a lot of fucking bureaucracy to actually get approved for a permit to carry. And I wouldn't be able to carry a 9 millimeter or a rifle, you know, like, will be just like a shitty gun, I guess. Yeah. So yeah, it's kind of weird, it's kind of,

I mean, in the US, I cool have a gun. Yeah. I don't even know how to use one, so I need to learn. How would people, I mean, do you think, learned. How would people, I mean, do you think, do you think Mexican citizens would want access to be able to protect themselves? It's been a debate like recent debate and it's always in people's opinion, you know, like it's very divided, it's very split. How would the people say like, we donate guns, what we need is for corruption to end. Because without corruption, you will have a state of law and those people getting

illegal weapons will stop. Many of those guys believe that the responsibility is in Mexico, half in the US, the other half. It's like you're you're free, them to get guns is hurting us, you know, some of the other guys are like, we should be more like the US, where you can access guns, where you can actually fight back, you know, where I can protect my family with a gun of those guys, because if they get to you, I'm still not sure where I stand to be honest on that matter,

because I'm very, I'm very, I'm very in the both worlds, like I can get one in a Paso, which is like Texas, the gun culture is like very open. But at the same time, I know what they do. I know what they mean for Mexico. And I've seen my friends killed by those guns and all that stuff. So I'm still, I still don't know where I stand. We're on the fence.

Exactly. Because on what side I said, like, yes, I mean, of course, I'm what I'm doing because of what I'm doing, especially. I should have one, you know, to protect my family, because I'm doing because of what I'm doing, especially. Should have one, to protect my family, because I never know when a motherfucker's gonna come up and when I'm gonna have to fight back. But at the same time, it's like, do I wanna engage in a shootout?

Do I wanna engage into that? Because I know if I kill that guy or that couple of guys that got into me, there's gonna be more coming. You know, there's gonna be more coming. you know? There's gonna be more coming. They're gonna get mad, they're gonna get angry here. They're gonna get like again. So, I don't know, you know, when I think about my family, how to protect them, I feel that the best way to protect them

is sometimes not talk a lot of what I do, a lot of details of what I see, what I hear of my cell phone. My wife, she gets sketchy because I'm always like protecting my cell phone. Of course, she believes that. It's another girl. I can see that with that girl. That can become an issue.

Exactly. Especially when you're a party and with a car tow. Yeah, sometimes she believes the worst for her. She believes these motherfuckers lock into another girl. Yeah But most of the time don't get me right multiple time It's not like that most of the time is I don't want her to see some pictures. I don't want her to see some Messages I don't want her to see who is sending me messages because I don't feel comfortable with

her knowing who I'm talking with. The other is leaving El Paso. The other is trying to get the heat out when I'm covering an interesting story, like a hardcore story, not going straight home and take my kid out in the same car and drive around. I'm going to be a waver for a couple of days until I feel the heat is out. I try to reach back to my sources after the story is out. So like, hey, we're good.

Are we cool? Is everything good? Do you think something shady? There's been two times where things haven't been cool at all. We're like I reach back. And the wife of my source will answer and it's like, they kill him. And I'm like, oh, fuck.

And I feel like shit. I feel like shit. I feel like it's my responsibility. I feel like his life is on my hands. And those times are like, oh my fucking God. Cause at the same time I'm feeling responsible here for that. And at the same time I'm feeling fear for my own life. Like if they got to him, are they mad at me too?

Yeah. Are they angry at me too? So those kind of stuff are the ones that gets you up and that you stay up and not, you know, like, like, you stay all night thinking, like, should I'll be doing something or would I be overreacting, you know, and I want to have my family all nervous all the time. Yeah. But at the same time, I need to protect them.

So sometimes I fall in love, yeah. How did these deals go down? These arms deals that you, what was your role there? Why did they let you witness? Because the whole deal go down. Because I wanted that, there's a lot of stuff in the news that just repeats, keeps repeating, you know,

like talking points. And people keeps repeating. The US, this is the US fault. And the narcos are getting guns. And the narcos are getting just like big weapons. And it's like, okay, yeah, yeah, fault, and the narcos are getting guns, and the narcos are getting just like big weapons. And it's like, okay, yeah, yeah, but what does that mean? Like, how do they get the guns and who and why?

And are cartels inside the US? Are cartels properly buying guns in the US? Or is it just like a regular one trying to make some bugs and they don't see the harm in selling those guns To a cartel. I wanted to understand that. I wanted to really get close to that and to understand what's what was on and What I found out is like in general cartels are not Structure like you know like a vertical structure. They're more like on a horizontal Structure now. You don more like a horizontal structure now. You don't have a big bus and then, you know,

like another sort of like chief and then like a bunch of scatios and then like a bunch of whatever. It's all horizontal right now. That's why a lot of the law enforcement don't get. You know, that's why some of their operations don't get don't get the the results they are expecting when you grab a kingpin he was just part of that horizontal structure it was not the bus you didn't cut the head of the snake, you just got a chunk and the snake can grow until again. So it works like that and the arms deals are exactly like that. There was once where the big

boss will call his people in the US or whatever until like, I need guns. All right, let's buy guns. There you go boss, you're guns. All right, just seal on a payroll, just still getting the same money. But right now it's like, I need guns. We're getting out of guns. What do we do? And it's like, okay, I have a plug in the US. I have a costume that he's a US citizen. He can get a gun for us or several. All right, trade out. And it's like, yeah, but he wants to, he's gonna buy, I don't know, an AK for 500 bucks, but he's gonna sell it to us, triple the price for 15K, 15,000, 100, sorry. And, I need someone will say, yes, all right,

just give that, just pick it back. And then we'll, you know, like one guy, it's like, okay, and what's my commission for crossing it over? Okay, you get 300 bucks, and then the guy who takes us all the way to Zinaloa, like how much for transporting this to Zinaloa? 300 bucks, all right, there you go. And then, you know, so it's an horizontal chain.

It's not a big structure. So everybody's making money out of that. Yeah, but it's making money out of the gone deal. You know, and that's interesting, that's interesting because when you say something like the US has responsibility, well the US just made 500 bucks and that. Someone else made another 500 and someone else made 300 and someone else made another 300 for that kind to reach the

hand of the guy who's going to kill a bunch of people. So most of them are still saying in Mexico, you know, and it's not entering like a legal economy. So, correct me from wrong, but I think what you're saying is it's not one major deal that's happening. It's one season, two seasons, and just thousands and thousands of people that are making, that are making 300 or 500.

A small amount of money, you know, for one one way. Exactly. Yeah. I talked to a guy in Guadalajal, and he's like, I found that if I if I if I traveled to the US to like Dallas to a gun show, they will sell guns to me like that. And I'll just take him back into Mexico before, um, um, fasting periods and all that stuff. It was like more, you know, uh, easy to travel back into Mexico without being searched. So it's like, I found that,

I would just like travel back to Chihuahua. It's like nine hours from Juarez to Dallas, nine hours back, and then four hours to Chihuahua, and I would make a thousand bucks for one gun every weekend. So it's like, hmm, I might bring three, and it's three thousand bucks, one week, and then it's weekend again, then it's weekend again, and it's three thousand bucks one weekend and then next weekend again and it's weekend again and it's weekend again and he made a good living out of that you

know like three thousand bucks in Mexico can be like every weekend can be like something to start something yeah I guess that's another reason why maybe, you know, securing the border a little bit more might be beneficial for both countries. Exactly. The thing is when you secure the border on the Mexican side, like right now they're changing the Mexican IRS, which is called SAT. Those were the guys in charge of customs. They're so corrupted, man.

Like they're one of the most corrupted organizations, government organizations, Mexico. So they were like, okay, we're gonna change that to the military. The military is not that corrupt, but it's known for stepping on human rights. So, I don't know if that's gonna work. I don't know if that's gonna work actually.

I think corruption in general needs to change, because corruption is what? It's killing us in Mexico. It's not the US. It's not decent that. It's not open or close borders. I think what's killing us is corruption. That's what is keeping us safe on decent at the border.

Your corruption levels are there, but at higher levels, like higher officials, it's gonna be hard for you to get out of a ticket, giving 20 bucks to a traffic police officer. There's no way you can give them 20 bucks for that guy to leave you alone. But Mexico, you can get away with that. And that's exactly what is killing us.

Corruption is inside the whole system. It's not corruption. It's not inside the system. Corruption is a system on itself. And that's what is killing us. Like you can put all of the military out of the streets, all of the DAs, you want, close all the borders you want, but as long as the corruption is still a system operating in Mexico,

there's going to be a way for people to benefit from legal or illegal activities. Yeah. What's moving into the DEA deal? Of course, man. I'm dying here about this. Well, you know, the Sinaloa Cartel has been one of the biggest cartels in Mexico for a good while, you know. It started with the Sinaloa Federation, the Federation of the Sinaloa, where the Juarez

Cartel leader was the Beltran Leibas and all that stuff. And even since then, they've been trying to cut deals or they've been cutting deals with the DA. They cast a DA's eager to keep arresting kingpins and bustling droglow loads. That they break deals with them. But this Mexican narcos at the same time, they are so naive that they think that they're going to actually benefit from that. And that they're going to leave off of that deal. El Vicenteo is the son of El Mayo Sanbada, which allegedly is the leader of the Sineloac Cartel right now.

After the Aristotle Chapel, the only one, there's only one picture of him and no one knows where the fuck he is, is Al-Maiyousa Mada. So, supposedly, he's the boss of the Sinhala Cartel. Although, you and I know they don't work like that anymore. But he's somewhat like a figure, you know, like a respected figure. He's been hiding forever. There's only one picture of him taken by this Mexican magazine, Proceso, because of the director of that magazine interview him, Warlaco. It'll be Centiós's son, and he tried in 2000, they don to break a deal with the DA in Mexico City. He got in touch with the DA and is like, all right, this is my proposal.

I'm going to give you guys intel on the other cartels. So you can arrest like all of, but you let me work freely. The DSL, like, yeah, let's do that man. All right, sounds good. All right, deal, deal. All right, bye-bye. They're left, and as soon as he left, he got arrested and extroverted into the US. So he's recently free. He walked out recently because he snatched on his own that by Yosembaela. He called him from prison. He broke a deal with the DA with the US government to snitch on the whole Sinaloa Gertel. That's what Gartal Chapo arrested, like that guy snitching on the whole organization.

He's free. Obviously, the US recommended him not to go back to Mexico. No one know where he is. Of course, I don't think it's a good idea for him to go back to Mexico, but he might be operating again. He might be back at it again, somehow with his dad or not, who knows. The thing is, I learned that these deals have been going on, still with the Sinhala Cartel, with some other members, with some other people. And now the Chalice Cono de la Granadación, which is the ruthless cartel growing up,

and it's huge. His financial reach is three times more than the Sinhalah cartel is huge Now they're trying to break a deal with the DA now they're meeting the agents now they are saying like we can get you El Mayu we can get you decent that from synaloah cartel If you let us walk free and I don't know I'm not sure I can't confirm for a fact, but for what they say, Bechalisco, it's working. They say like the deal is working man, the deal is

ongoing. That's how we're getting sheet tons of firearms. Like we've never seen before. They just recently posted a video on social and it's a full army. They have tanks that have these kind of like rhinos, like armor vehicles. They have rocket lunches, they have RPGs. So you're saying that the DEA is trading weapons for... Kingpins, e-calls. Yeah, and normally that, I also know that being, well, not specifically, the DA, but the DA is in the middle of that. The U.S. government has been giving out green cards to some of them, some of their cartel members,

some of the people who is under record killing more than 20, 30, 40 people in Mexico. They're giving out green cards. In the middle of a moment where there are a lot of people from Latin America trying to desperately enter the US and they're stalking places like Juarez. The US is giving out green cards to narcos. In exchange for something so shitty as a statement in court, where it's all fixed. That they say like they exactly same thing.

Do you know that guy? Yes. Can you point where the narco whatever it is? He's that guy. Well, see the leader of that conversation? He was. He did, he asked you to, you know, traffic drugs? Yeah, he did.

All right. There you have, Grinker for you, your wife, your kids, and so many. Wow. It's like, dude, that's unfair. That's so, that's a policy that is not only unfair, but it's also unethical, you know, on Mexico. If you were personally witnessed any of that?

Yes, I personally witnessed that, yes, on a court in El Paso, on one of the allegedly leaders of the Huatiscartel. I personally saw that. I personally spoke with a lawyer who showed me the deals, the US cover was breaking on that case, and who these people were under the organization of Huatis. I even saw the record of statements they did, and at the beginning they said, this is not that guy. And then it's like, it is that guy. They did the wrong statement and someone told them, that's the wrong statement, you need to say that's the guy. Okay, sorry. Yeah, this is the guy. And they're getting green cards. Wow, it's crazy, man. It's crazy how they are operating. Or honestly, it's not.

It's not news why the US is having a backlash, you know, on a bunch of people from Mexico, Central America, South America, arriving at the border desperate, asking for help. It's a backlash of some of those policies where you protect narcos, you know, for your own good, for your benefit. Do you this protect a lot of people? Do you think there may be some things that you might be missing as far as what the government's doing to these guys? Maybe they give them a green card, but

maybe they're also turning them into an informant, you know, keeping them going, still running them when it's an asset. And it could be continuing to get information out even though they're in the US. Cool be, man. Cool be because I mean, there's another story I published in 2013, I think. On the guy who delivered a chapel was a doctor. He didn't have any relationship with cartels. He just happened to live in Silo Acuadis and had a neighbor who was the right arm in the state for El Chapo.

He got into some kind of fight with him. He threatened his wife and his kids, so he decided to sneak on him on an international bridge. He arrived at an international bridge, it's like, hey, I know a guy who works, very high up. He does another organization. So they were like, yeah, whatever, just get the fuck out. And then he called him on one, and he tried hard, he went to the Mexican government, military.

No one will believe him. And then he arrived to the US consulate in Juada saying that he had a bomb on him. So they grabbed him, took him in. And it was like, no, I don't have a bomb. So they searched him and like, I'm read like his background and whatever. So they're like, what the fuck are you doing here? It's like, I have some information that I want to tell you.

And so he started like sharing like these guys, those these and that. And he's like the right arm is his charged polytheists off and that's it. So they arrested that guy. They went for him in a hotel in Guadalupe, when he arrived with his wife, like he just stepped out of his car and someone arrived behind him, was like, hey, let's go, get up. And he was like, oh shit, I don't know if this is cartel or a government. So it just went up the car. And I know that because of the assortment that Interpol described me

the whole operation to get that guy. And he's like, he didn't prevent a resistance. It just got up the band. And then he asked, who is this? And it's the US government. It was like, oh my god, yeah, thank god. So they took these doctors into the US and gave them protection and other identity, an S visa,

which it's a visa for, states basically. But then they told me like, do you have any more information? You can share with us. And it's like, no man, I'm not gonna tie the cartels. And it's like, okay, if you don't have more information, we're gonna report your S visa, because that's only for these purposes. And you're gonna go back to Mexico.

So he was like super desperate, that's where he called me. That was where he's like the desperate. I gave this all information to those guys. And I don't know what to do. And I want to reach out to the media. So I started to follow him, his story. And in the middle of that story, he managed to find or to get the phone number of a woman who was

with El Chapo at all times. And he's like, this is her phone number. I'm handing it to the VA, the VA knows where she is, where El Chapo is. And that's how El Chapo got her arrested the first time. He got her arrested. Even then, they still threatened this guy to send him back to Mexico. They're like, OK, what else? And it's like, I just gave you a chapel, man. This was your operation.

It was not a Mexican operation. And it was like, all right, but what else do you have to keep your ass decent, you know? So if I felt like he was disposable, like he was totally disposable, like I'm an informant, I'm giving out, you know, like good information. They should just leave me alone, but they didn't.

And I know he's hiding still from the DA and from the NACOS inside the US. He's interesting. I mean, we can't blame him. If he's got information, it's going to save lives. We just went through, some Mexicans are pissed off because arms are being tracked, traffic down there from the US.

Well, now you have a guy who has a ton of information. And, you know, I feel- This information could save a lot of life. Exactly. And I feel that my responsibility in all that is to shed light into how stuff really works. Not talking points, not blaming governments, not blaming whatever policies.

It is what it is. It's like this is how it works. Exactly, this is how it works. It's like this is how it works. Exactly. This is how it works. Yeah, it's not structure is not an evil plan from the US like float Mexico with fucking guns that they kill each other. Yeah This is how it's going on. There's people making money out of it, especially during the pandemic, you know Yeah, I appreciate that everybody has to put a spend on shit these days and yeah You know, you can't just present information anymore.

It's, you're still doing it. That's awesome. But yeah. A lot of stuff going on there, man. I'm trying to find the ties that ties us, the US and Mexico. I'll leave it a border. I'm a border kid So I leave I

Reporting Spanish write in English. I meet people like you I interview people like you in English and reporting Spanish back and forth all the time back and forth all the time and I received the heat from both sides I received the heat from Mexico because I write in English and they say like oh you oh, you're fucking sell out. And I received the heat from the US because I report in right Spanish. It's like, oh, you fucking Mexican. You're just like stocking bullshit about the US and Mexico. And I received the heat from Trump supporters and from Biden supporters. And I received the heat from Mexican president Amelo supporters and the opposition. I received a heat from everybody because I'm not in the business of putting out my opinion. I'm in the business of showing things as they are. And some things are

good about Trump. Some things are bad about Trump. Some things are good about Biden. Some things are bad about Biden. It's just the way things are, you know, like, because I'm not trying to put the nice light on any precedent or in any government trying to tell it how it is, and not put my voice in it, just say like, I went there, talked to these people, and this is how it works. Yeah, that's it.

I appreciate that, I really do. Thanks, man. But, you have anything else you want to talk about when it comes to the arms deals? I think that's pretty much it, man. Perfect. Let's take another break and then let's get into some drugs. Let's do it. Alright. Let's get into some fentanyl.

Yeah. Let's get into some fans and now. 1.5kg Alright, so we kind of went through some of the arms trafficking and some of the deals that you were part of, not a part of, were able to report on. And big correction there. It's like, don't put me into the mix, you know. I have the ATF stand outside the door. It's like, no, no, it's like, you're on the record. But you also recently went and you were able to report on and actually go into a lab that was making fentanyl. So where was that?

We got some great videos that you gave us that we're going to put in here. So while we're talking about this, you'll be seeing photographs and videos of the actual lab. But go ahead and let's hear what you got. So, so as fentanyl started like ramping in the US, you know, like being like a proper issue, I also wanted to know where to, where does he start, you know, like, where, where is he being made? And how, and who's making it? I breached out to one of my sources in Zinatoa, of course, like this guy who always, like, comes through. And, and I asked him if I could be on, on a Fentany live. And he told me it was gonna hard because the F fentanyl labs now they're not set up as

before, before they will like rent or buy a warehouse and establish an ongoing lab. But because of the busts, the Mexican government has been busing labs, they are making these small laps on the go in the middle of nowhere. And they work quick over a night, take everything, destroy the rest, and leave. And they're gone. And they're gone. So, I told him, I know it sounds like a letter to Santa Claus, but I wanted to ask you if we can actually follow the whole process. If you find that someone's gonna be cooking, I want to know, I want to be there for the preparation,

like how they set up for that. I'm just like, you're asking for too much because it's not, like obviously they don't share, they don't announce, like, okay, we're gonna set up a fucking fentanyl out, you know, so it's gonna be hard. And I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna go down to Kuljakan and wait there for your signal, you know, so I did. Kuljakan is a beautiful city man,

you really have to go there. It's a nice city, nice weather, nice people, nice places to eat, great seafood. So I spend a couple of days just eating seafood, having beers and walking and swimming at the hotel pool until I got the signal from this guy that said, all right, picking you up the hotel and we're driving off to the outskirts of Guillaacán in the middle of nowhere. And I'm like, OK, I'll follow your lead.

He knows me and he knows that I don't go without a safety protocol. So I just jumped in. And we started driving, taking off. And I asked him, can I start recording from now? And here's a no, no, no, no, no, no, no, because the rope might be someone kind of knows where we are or where we had it. So no rope at all.

And I'm like, OK, I was with a film crew for vice-world news. So there was a cameraman, a host, and I told the cameraman, I just don't, because he's a white, almost reddish, British guy. He doesn't look like he's long-term ex-boyfriend. Oh, super tall.

And I was like, just don't dress, dendlessly, you know? Just dress. Don't do anything stupid. Exactly, I give you a dress. I don't know, like hipster, E, then you're good. If you dress like a skateboarder, you're good. Whatever, just don't dress in a dendrous way.

I guess he didn't understand what a dendrous way was because he was full on DA agents. Kaki Kargo pants, black tactical boots, short boots, long boots, glasses, these kind of dark glasses, green military cap and a backpack. They're really, he all did yourself today. You don't even dress like that in a regular basis. Yeah. And I'm like, all right, so let's go.

Let's hope that's not going to be an issue. And he was like super worried about that. Like, do you really feel that I just can jump out and just don't go? And I'm like, no, man, you have to go. You're the camera operator. So let't go. And I'm like, no, man, you have to go. You're the camera operator, so let's go. When there, we arrived into a very small town, like dirt roads and everything. And from there, we met another guy,

another couple of guys, grabbed a pickup truck, put us in the back, and started driving off in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of nowhere. So it was really in the middle of the woods. And then from there we met another guy's and motorcycles and they started driving the motorcycles into the woods and we started walking until they found a place where they have taken out like a lot of trees and they started sending up a laugh right there. Some of the stuff it's in the pictures I send you,

like this huge, I don't know, like, burritos or something like that. A lot of precursors, a lot of chemicals, a lot of like a stove, like a manmade stove, and like a small roof, like a tent. And we obviously had masks on, not like the regular face mask, like proper gas masks. Those guys didn't have anything, like anything. And there was like an old guy and there's like, okay, he's the cook.

Orbaus brought someone from China to teach him how to cook this shit. And I'm like, wow, that's interesting. And there's like, how many people knows that? And it's like, just like a couple, just like two guys in the organization can know how to properly cook. And I'm like, okay.

And then I started talking to him. It was very quiet. He didn't really want to talk. He was like too shy with the camera. Was the man from China in the lab? No, he had come in and taught a group of people how to do this. Apparently he just teach da guy, da guy show another guy and then apparently what goes on is like they had to show or to teach another two guys in case they die. There's another two guys but just like pairs of two keep learning about how to cook but it was just once where these Chinese came and showed these guys how to properly cook fentanyl.

And the fentanyl, like the proper powder, like fentanyl in powder, the precursors to cook it come from China or from Germany. And they really take care of that shit, like if that was cold. They bring it in and box with one arm guy and it's how it's looking at that bag. And it's how it's like okay, that's too much. Don't waste it. Put it back, lock it in. And that guy's always like taking care of that stuff. Like the precursors. Fentonal is possibly the most addictive drug on the planet.

Yes, exactly. It's an opioid. And it's a pandemic in the US now because it's really hurting bad. Not only there are people, you know, like drug addicts or people in the street, but also moms that's working people, regular people. It's killing a lot of people because a lot of drugs are being laced with fentanyl. And those guys, that's what amazed me. While they were cooking, when they were like setting up, I was asking like, how do you move from one business to another? How do you move from cooking heroin to lace it with fentanyl. How do you move from that to pure fentanyl?

How do you move from that to math? You were dealing with marijuana a long ago. And one of those guys was telling me if it was a proper established business, or clients in the US, they started telling us that their know, we're clients in the US, they tell us, they start telling us that their heroin we're giving them wasn't strong enough. So we had some small drops of fendolin to that, and they liked it. But a year went by, and they're like, it's not strong enough.

So we added some more. And now we're adding a lot. So this cold-kill huge animal, you know? And they're liking it, they're liking it. We're getting good feedback from our users. And you have a feedback system on how to make drugs. How? Did someone call you or your boss or whatever?

It's like, no, no, no like the street vendors When they're selling they're like, yeah, you know what? It's not telling good because my client said that There's an a stronger heroin around the corner with the old guys so need to Bring this one stronger So he says the guy he buys from and that guy from the guy he buys from and he goes all the way back to that cougar. Interesting. To the coug. And so yeah, it's like I just received the orders like put

Montfenton on to that heroin. It's not strong enough now. And he does. I always wondered. I thought it was a little counterproductive to make the drug so strong because so many people are dying, but now I understand if it's a media feedback from the users to the cookers then. Exactly. Yeah, because it wouldn't make sense like that's what I understand that like, okay, so these guys, yeah, because it wouldn't make sense for these guys to be killing their clients in the US, you know, they wouldn't make sense like for them to be actually like, yeah, just have like super strong today, fucking guy or not over those.

They know that and they talk about that and say like, we didn't use this shit. That we don't use any of this shit. It's that fucking strong. Those guys are crazy. And I like, you guys are cooking it. You guys are crazy. Yeah. And it's like, you guys are cooking, you guys are crazy. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, but we don't use that.

Like those guys are asking for stronger shit every time. Wow. And I'm like, but they're dying. And I was like, I know. That's what they want. They want to kill themselves. That's them. I'm getting paid to cook.

And I'm like, wow, that was revealing, you know? That was like really something, like how they actually see the issue. Because we think we tend to think that these guys are like the bad guys, you know, like putting fentanyl and cooking. And so like, yeah, they're gonna die, do you know what? They're actually like, wow, that's strong.

I don't know if they should be using this shit, you know. And they, so they lace a bunch of stuff, chloride or, I don't know, like the bunch of stuff they put into that mix. And then they start, you know, like just mixing it, but you get the fumes and they're like strong, fucking fumes. I was wearing one of those masks, and I mean, it was awful, it was bad. I could feel it.

It was so smelly, it was so feely, you know. The trees around the area? Well, all that, like around that specific area, they were all like from the fumes. Yeah, like specific in a specific circle all dead like all fucking brown dead. No, I thought that was just the environment when I was living. Oh yeah, you'll see that. No, everything's dead. They're all dead. They're all dead. It's only around that. You walk like a couple of feet from there and it's green again

like green leaves healthy treats. Wow. It's that strong, it's not crazy and that's for a couple of batches only. How much how much fentanyl does a couple of batches look like? Is it is it? Well, what they were cooking there, they used the bag of the precursor to make fentanyl was a bag like that Fill up to the meal and they used like a corner of that, you know like The rest was a lot of other shit with heroin and I don't know what and then they makes this this paste When they cook it like the cool the whole, like a broth. And then they leave it to dry.

And then when it dries, it's like a paste, like a brownish paste. They told me that the quantity they used into that of the precursors, what worth like 200 bucks, 300 bucks, something like that. And what it was in the back, for when it was tried, in Mexico, it was like 20 grand, in the US,

it was like 100, 120, 200 grand. So he was like, we have a lot of money here. I'm like, shit. And I was like, so what if the government comes like by now? So that would just like burn everything and just grab the gold. You know, just this, this is the worth. The the precursor and this shit. Let's go. Everything else. Just like burn it. They took me to another place around, all Burnout. And I was like, yeah, like someone told us, like, hey, the military is on its way, so I had to burn everything.

Grab the shit and go, and we were gonna make the double, like, twice the batch with either, but we only managed to do one before they came. So that's where we're cooking this second batch to make it for that. And I'm like, okay, and then from here, we only managed to do one before they came. So that's where we're cooking this second batch to make it for that. And I'm like, okay, and then from here, what's next? Is like from here, the boss shows up.

Apparently the boss was the brother of the old cook. And he's like, yeah, my brother is like, very intelligent man, not like me. I'm only a cook. And I love Mary-One. I love to harvest. I want to have a beautiful, beautiful crop of beautiful, weed man, good quality, all natural. I want to show you.

He was like so proud of his weed crop. But he didn't like working into that, but I was paying the bills. You know? And he felt like he was supporting his brother. His brother came out with this idea like, okay, we can cook this shit. I can find a proper supplier in China. I'm gonna bring it, you can cook it. I'm gonna export it, and I'm gonna make shit tons of money.

And I was like, is he? And I was like, yeah, he's making shit tons of money. And I was like, is he? And I was like, yeah, he's making shit tons of money. Because he doesn't take it all the way to the US. What he does is he sells it to someone. He doesn't even know. But there's a transport in the middle, who just pays that. Like, OK, I'm going to send this quantity of fentanyl to the US.

It's gonna be 2000 grand. And he takes requests from everybody. So he carries a sessna or a car. It depends with a lot of drugs from different NACUs. It's like, have this math. That's why they were like putting a name on the back. Oh, shit. So he's delivering to all the cartels.

So the Leroy guy. He's like, okay, yeah, I'm taking from Xinaloa to the border. That's not the cook though. That's the trends. The court just he just cooks. And then he gets everything ready. His brother arrives, takes the batch, already in bricks, to the cook, go into the delivery guy, all branded. It's like, okay, it's like six bricks of this shit.

What's my name? Off you go. There's your money. And he's like, okay, I have a trip to Mexigali, who else is gonna send me shit. And then another guy jumps in and I have some math, I have some coke, I have some coke, I have some wheat. There you go.

So these cooks, do they have direct ties to the cartels? Or is it direct tied to the transporter who has direct ties to the cartels? That's exactly what I was telling you before on the how the structure works now. This guy represents a cartel, but it's like a brand. You know, it's like if you open up a shop of night tenies, of the sneakers shoes here, you're not necessarily part

of the night corporation, you know. You have a store selling that brand. So these guys are representing a brand, but not a cartel. It's a franchise. It's a franchise. So these guys are like, okay, I get the but not a cartel. It's a franchise. It's a franchise. So these guys are like, okay, I get the protection from the cartel. They are allowing me to cook here.

They are giving me some assets, and I am delivering drugs for them. Only my job is to cook and to send. So that's an extremely small Operation. Yes, so how are they making connections with the Chinese To come over and teach them how to cook if it's such a small Organist to the car cell outfit that's where the big organization comes in you know like the big bosses or like the big people Insilitated exactly like, like these guys, the brother of the cook, he knew a guy from the Sinai Lava Cartel, higher up,

dealing with money laundering, like higher operations, you know, arms trafficking. It was a trafficking Chinese into Mexico with fake Mexican IDs, and that was the deal. Like, okay, you give it precursors. I'll bring your, I'll smuggle your people into my country You know, so they're bringing Chinese with precursors into Mexico And it's wow. It's a whole fucking operation man

So he knew that guy and he's like, hey man my brother can cook I can like you know operate that part of the business And I'll just be selling you the batches. What do you think? And he's like, yeah, that's great idea. All right, then I bring out a cook from China who knows how to cool that shit. It's gonna show you and you start and start telling me that those batches. Let's say it up. So they set up that, that kitchen. How many of these little If you have an estimation that'd be great if not It's fine too, but yeah, these little labs do it. There are Boutines

I can I guess like it only in the outskirts of Kuljakan you can count them by the hundreds every day In the outskirts of Kuljakan, you can count them by the hundreds every day Every day, like by the hundreds by the hundreds by the hundreds like a hundred so that 200 300 glass for you at the same time Wow, and then disappearing and then the next day popping up somewhere different and then disappearing and then popping up So we're different. They're cooking this every day every single day. How long does it take them? We arrived there around 11 in the morning or so and we left by six each. Yeah, before sunset. So around like six, seven hours, it's a good like a batch that works 200 K in the US. So like that. So every six hours.

They're like, again. They're producing $100,000 worth of fentanyl. And the cook was selling me that. Another set of cooks, recently dies. They die, like, they don't, they don't, because he wasn't talking. He wasn't like, he was like super quiet, but then someone offered him a coke, and then he started talking,

who actually wears like cranking when we're like editing the video. The vice crew and I was like just laughing like the halt to the night because he transformed, you know, he was like super quiet, super not, you know, shy was like super quiet, super not, you know shy and then it goes like So then yeah, you have to use this shit. So it's like oh my god Yeah, it's like it's started like talking and I'm a lot and so he started talking about his brother about his crops about all this stuff and about how most of the cooks don't last more than two months They keep dying every two months so that he has to teach someone else.

And then, you know, why are they dying? Because of the few boys. Yeah, like they, he's like, that's why I use Coke to, to, to balance the effects of the fentanyl. Oh man. That doesn't sound right or all. I think you got it wrong, man. I don't think the cocaine's gonna help out and that you're getting more chemicals into your body and they end up all cold and, you know,

affected by the fentanyl. And they drink a lot. So you gotta keep hydrated, man. That's why we get bunch of beers and bottles of tequila. They had don Julio right there. It's like drinking don Julio in Bursta. And the fumes and the coas like, wow, man. You really end up a journey like super intoxicated from here.

Damn, two months like life expectancy for these guys. Exactly, yeah. And surrounded by a couple of armed people that are just there sitting, bored, talking, drinking, you know, like, when they're over, they're just like a squirt, the shit, where it has to go. Dude, what kind of drugs are they, they're lacing what kind of drugs with fentanyl? And can you get just straight fentanyl? Yes, they're doing straight fentanyl, like a PL's and that kind of drugs with fentanyl? And can you get just straight fentanyl? Yes, they're doing straight fentanyl, like pills and that kind of shit.

And they're lacing heroin and meth with fentanyl. Nococ. Nococ. Not for what I saw there. Not for what I learned there. I don't know. I mean, they might be doing, but when I was there, it was only a batch of heroin, a batch of meth to

take into the list. It was very interesting to learn how to, how does that work, you know, how unstructured the organizations are. Another guy in Mahikale the border. We met, we followed the route, so we met with the guy in charge of the stash house, where that drug was going to be stashed before Chumlin to the US. You followed the product? We followed the product.

To the stash house. And then, I mean, not like... That specific product, you just followed a product. No, we knew where that was going to be attached, so we arrived there two days later. Okay. So we went there to that stash house and talked to that guy, so like, okay, so what's the next process of this drug? And it's like, right now what I'm doing is putting everything into CIP logs back in sealed and then I watched them with detergent, you know, like this swabitelle, it's called in Mexico.

So it smells like roses and the dogs wouldn't smell it. And when he's all washed up, I'm going to put it in a car that it's gonna arrive here. And all right, so, and then in the middle of the interview and everything, a cop who, like a man and a woman, like nicely dressed and nice car, shut up to that fucking stach house. And they were like very curious, like, who are these guys with cameras here?

And they're like, oh, it's a tiny view, they're reporters from the US. And they were like, can we stay here a little? And they were like having fun watching us, taking us pictures, and then they went into our room, and then they left. And I was like, who's that people? It's like, oh, they are the laundryers.

They came here to deliver some stacks of bucks. We count them with the machine, stashed them, and they left. And I'm like, oh, wow, that's interesting, too. And I'm like, all right, so, and then what you do. So it's like, OK, we're going to wait for the car. It's like, OK, is that part of the cartel car? Someone is like, no, no, no no the borders are closed for most Mexican residents

So we're exclusively using US citizens like the people who is out of work We started recruiting them recruiting them in the US like hey, you want to make like five hundred bucks to a thousand you know an afternoon and Some of the say yes, all right, okay, so you just show up in Mahikati and we'll you know like have a blow down your car, you're not, we're not gonna tell you where it is and then you're gonna deliver that, leave the cars, leave the keys of your car in the parking lot, we're gonna take it, we're gonna get back, you're good to go. So that afternoon a woman arrived, woman speaking perfect English, she was from California in Mercedes, old Mercedes vents and she was like, yeah, I've

been doing this for a good while and I'm like, why? She's like, I, I've been doing this for a good while. And I'm like, why? She's like, I have five kids. My mom had a job because of the pandemic. And someone offered me these jobs. So yeah, I make two or three trips a day. Wow. And I'm like, wow, that's interesting. And how come they don't, I don't know.

They don't stop you at the border. It's just like, because even the days I don't know. I don't know. They don't stop you at the border. And it's just like, because even the days I don't carry loads, I still cross. Because my story is I work in Mexico, and I live in the US. She's made a cover story. Sticks to it. She's created an entire pattern of life. Exactly.

And so we followed her. They put the stuff in her car. We followed her, and she got secondary. She got what? Secondary. Oh. She was like a secondary inspection. When they sent you to these booths,

and they put X-rays and dogs, and the CBP officers like us to start like looking all over your car They didn't find anything nothing nothing nothing That was like without like oh shit they got her and No, we met her at a Motel the other side I know her like what the fuck you just got secondary she was like yeah honestly I thought I was like Dawn bleeding and fighting anything and I'm like wow that's fucking crazy it was like are you afraid she's

like yeah every time is the last time every time I do this is the last time I'm gonna do it and but I can stop because it's good money. And I don't have any other source of income. So I don't know only with that, when the pandemic restrictions are lifted, I don't know if she actually got a proper job and go out of that. Wow, hopefully. What would happen to you guys if you were at that fentanyl lab and

I don't think anything because we're not we're not carrying anything with us We're not being part of the operation the business We're just filming there. I guess what will happen is They might be interested in talking to us to see if we can stage say something location's names But other than that I don't think there's There's anything they could actually do to us, you know When we had to take a flight from MLA where I had to take a five from from LA. I

ditched all my clothes into the trash from LA, I ditched all my clothes into the trash being because it smells so strong of, I don't know, ugly. It smells like super fucking strong. So I put everything on the trash and I was like, yeah, I'm ready to fly back again home, you know, because this stinks and I'm tired and it was like intense. You know, it was like, you have to be on top of your mind all the time, like on top of everything. On top of a production and also on top of the safety of yourself and everybody else when you're crew. You know, because one guy was from Brazil, the other guy was from Colombia, the other guy was from the UK.

When we crossed the border, the officer was like, what is this? Like a fucking UN? Car! Oh shit! Yeah, it was like a Mexican and forciilin, a guy from the UK and a Colombian in the same car. It's like the fuck is this? Damn, that's interesting. Yeah. It's extremely interesting. It was very interesting. It was a nice access. It's extremely interesting.

It was very interesting. It was a nice access. It was an interesting access. How does that work? Works, you know. Yeah. And what is doing to killing some lives in the US, many lives, and getting some people alive, like that girl, like providing for her family,

for kids. Yeah. What is all this going to be made into? It's a documentary which is already in Vice-World News. I'll share you the link. What's it called? It's called, camera man, it's called something like, it's a short documentary called, How the US, how Mexican

Cartel are using US citizens to smuggle drugs. Something like very new. It's like a report, not like a proper full-on documentary. It's like a 10, 15 minutes piece. Okay. Propheys world news. Yeah, I love the watch. I love the sound.

I'll definitely send you the link. It's interesting. We embedded it with the Mexican police, because we know that Mexico is huge for labs. They denied everything. There's actually no labs here, man. This is one of the cleanest city in terms of lab operations.

We obviously didn't say which has been into one. Yeah. It's like, oh really, no one. It's like oh really, no shit. It's like yeah, this is like he kept talking and talking and like so then what are we doing? Because we discussed like you were gonna go into an operative and we kind of beg you. It's like yeah we have an operative permanent operatives going through the city to find you know stuff. and the pertinence going through the city to find stuff. And I was like, okay, so we spend four hours finding people with a smile, wheat cigarette. It was like, stop right there, you look suspicious.

And they were like, okay, so these guys are just putting up a show for the cameras. We're gonna cut all that out, because this is bullshit. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. You were so interesting to eat in that place. Very interesting.

Mm-hmm. Steak another quick break. Let's do it. 1,5kg СПОКОЙНАЯ МУЗЫКА I'm going to wrap this interview up, but you've taken part in quite a few documentaries and I kind of want to, what are those documentaries? I want to link them below so people can kind of see your work and what you've been involved in. Definitely. So I've been working for some documentaries

in vice-world news. I'll share you the links so you can put them out there. Mostly like reporting on 10, 15 minute pieces. Like many docs? Yeah, like many docs on the Beats I cover. For CNN, I did some interesting stuff with a smuggler, with a human smuggler. He allowed us to follow him all through,

from his safehouse to the border, while, until he put people together and why he's doing it, how much is charging. Also, I've been doing some more like, blowing version documentaries like the one on showtime. It's called Ready for War, on the Port of Veterans, who end up working for cartels in Mexico. And some serious dope in Netflix, the Mexican part of that series, I've helped produce that. I'm the middle of production for two short documentaries for Vice as well,

one on weaponized drones in Mexico, like cartels or weaponizing drones. And the other one about how the Mexican truck traffickers, specifically this in a Loa cartel, is using Mexican indigenous people to run drugs across the border and long desert stretches. Wow. That's a lot of stuff here in La La. It's a lot of stuff, yeah. What would be one that you're probably most... do you have one that you are most proud of. I mean, it depends because every time I jump into a new project, that's the one that I'm most excited about. So right now, the indigenous issue, I'm very, very excited about that one because it's been a story that I've been hearing and covering for

a while now. I just did a story on that. A written story talking to some of them, reviewing core documents on their arrests, talking to some of the bad guys and some of the good guys and what's going on with these indigenous people, and why are they running drugs? And how climate change is a big part of it. And so that becoming a document, a shared documentary, I'm really excited about that one. How can people find you? I'm very active in Twitter and on Instagram.

In Twitter you can find me as Luis, L-U-I-S, K-U-R-I-K-y, I'll share you my handles so you can post it here because it might be difficult to remember Luis Kuriaki. In Instagram I'm the same, Luis Kuriaki. I go with that name on my most of my social. I thought at the beginning I thought it was safety wise, sir, you know, like I thought that if you look for Luis Chapparro social media, it's gonna be harder to find me unless you know my handle which is Luis Kuryaki, you know. And yeah, I'm very active on both of them. Most of the time when I'm out, I record short clips of what I'm reporting of what I'm doing when I'm not compromising a location.

And then I upload stories on my Instagram afterwards when I'm back into a safe place, home or else, and I start like, so you can know what I'm working during that. And I have some behind the scenes on going to tantony of labs, armed trafficking stuff. And also on my Instagram, all of my pictures, they're not pictures of me or selfies or food. It's pictures of my work, pictures of art people, cartels, trucking, king means pictures that I most of them might take them, or I find them through

a source like the wedding of El Chapo. So that kind of stuff you can find in my Instagram and on my Twitter you can find all of my stories. Every time I pull up a new story it's on Twitter. Perfect. I'll be following you. I just want to let you know if you ever have anything new You're always welcome here. We'd love to get you back on and and see what you got going on and

If you ever need anybody down there, even if it's just a sound guy, I can hold a boom pole like nobody's business So I love to get down there and take part of that. That'll be amazing man. That'll be that'll be great That'll be an honor and. That'll be great. That'll be an honor. And I'm very happy to be here to site what's your show. I learn a lot on your show. And so I really wanted to be here and share my small part of the world that I know,

which is the Mexican quartel. Well, I really appreciate it. Thank you. And it's been a real pleasure to host you. So, thank you. Be safe down there, and best of luck to you. Thank you. We'll see you around.

Thanks a lot, and hopefully your people will learn about these guys. I'm going to interview soon. It's going to be around there. They will. All right going to be around there. They will. Cheers. Celebrate the Black Friday sales event at Woodhouse Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram in Blair. Step into a new Jeep that you can count on. From the awarded new Grand Cherokee to the capable 2022 Jeep Compass, the Jeep lineup won't compromise on power, technology, or comfort, delivering confidence, and convenience for 29 years. Woodhouse Chrysler Dodge Jeep brand in Blair is your trusted auto partner.

Visit us off highway 30 in Blair or online at woodhouse Chrysler Jeep Dodge.com. The Bullwork Podcast focuses on political analysis and reporting without partisan loyalties. A real sense of déjà vu sprinkled on our PTSD. So things are going well, I guess. Every Monday through Friday, Charlie Sykes speaks with guests about the latest stories from Inside Washington and around the world. You document in a very compelling way. All of the positive things have come out of this, but it also feels like we have this massive hangover.

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