Shawn Ryan Show - #30 Trevor Millar - Psychedelic Provider

Episode Date: July 17, 2022

Shawn recently shared his profound psychedelic experience and how deeply it affected him. So, it was natural that Shawn should sit down with the man who helped him down the rabbit hole - Psychedelic Provider Trevor Millar. This episode dives into Trevor’s story, the opioid epidemic, big pharma, and the alternative treatments to immense inner turmoil that's become so very common in our American life. Please leave us a review! Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website - https://www.shawnryanshow.com Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/VigilanceElite TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnryanshow Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shawnryan762 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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10-year 100,000-mile warranty. Visit us online at WoodhouseHundayofomaha.com. Hey, everybody. The last couple of weeks, we hit number 79 on the overall iTunes podcast charts. That's out of millions of podcasts. We hit 79. So I want to say thank you to that. My next guest It's about psychedelics everybody. This is the guy that was with me

by my side during my journey and Will continue to be the provider that I go to when I want a psychedelic treatment There's no better guy in the world Please welcome Trevor Miller to the show. Awesome episode you guys are really gonna like it and if you don't mind Give the video a like leave a comment subscribe to the channel Enjoy the show everybody love you all head over Head over to iTunes, leave us a review. One last thing everybody, there's a big movement in DC right now trying to get psychedelics more available to the thousands and thousands of people that it's helping. If you're for

that, I've linked how to get in contact with your congressmen, with your senators below, shoot them an email, tell them how many thousands of people this is helping, and give them a little push. Sometimes politicians just need a little push. All right, love you guys. Appreciate all the support. You're going to love this episode, cheers. It took me to make of my most vulnerable point in my entire life.

For context of where the substance comes from, it comes from the back of a sonoran desert toe. These are the two toxic glands right here behind the eyes. The sonoran desert toe native to Arizona and it holds a reputation. This toe is the second most toxic Tote in the world. That was so powerful. I can't imagine people not having a breakthrough. This substance does bring you to almost like a heavenly state. The price to pay is in order to get there you have to die.

Like a part of you needs to go away for you to experience that thing that might always be there. Like there's a barrier between us. You have to trust that it's going to be okay. You know, I think 5MEO is really like the red pill from the Matrix. The first thing after all the anxiety and all of that gets sucked out of me, the first thing that I've heard was my swear. It was the Earth's vibration. I journaled the entire thing and I'm putting it in an envelope and

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It's so wonderful to be here. It's such a great setup you've got here. Thanks for the incredible hospitality so far. Oh, my pleasure. It's fun to be here. But just a little background on you so you're a psychedelic healer, I began and 5MEO DMT provider. Correct. As of today, yeah. As of today. And you've been doing this for a pretty long time now. And you've healed. how many people have you healed do you think well? I've worked with

probably about 300 350 people total yeah and You know healing is a questionable term You know there's a there's probably a continuum of healing so I've given medicine to about 350 people and whether or not They feel as though they're healed, that's kind of up to them. Well, I feel healed. I went to your spot and it changed, it literally changed my life overnight. My wife noticed it, even my six-month-old son it, and I actually did a two-and-a-half-hour episode on it

just a couple weeks ago talking about the entire experience and just giving me more than just a breath of fresh air. It's changed my life in so many ways. So thank you. Thank you. You did all the work though, but I'm glad I was able to hold a space where you were able to do that work, but you did all the heavy lifting during that week, dude. Well, thank you. But so how I want to do the interview is we want to talk about kind of where how you started with this and move into some of the science and some of your own journeys that you've experienced with the medicine. But before we get into all that, which I'm sure there'll be a plenty of rabbit holes that we go in and out of, I got you a present. Oh yeah?

Yeah. Everybody gets a gift. Oh cool. Especially you. Ha ha ha. Oh, wicked. I was hoping hoping I was gonna get some swag. Good. And now, I heard something about your famous gummy bears.

Dude, you gotta try them. Really? It's so funny. If you were to ask me, what my favorite candy is, 100% it's gummy bears. Really? Yeah, man. So thank you. Why can't wait to hear what you think about those right on But thank you. Yeah, man, and I want to send I want to send you and your whole staff like a whole whole So they will appreciate that as you know

But um, but yeah, let's get right into it. So One thing that you had mentioned when when I was down there, you know, it going through the treatment, so I've experienced, is we were kind of talking about your goals and what you were wanting to get into, and you brought up the Tibetan culture, which I found was fascinating what you were saying. Let's start right there. Well, I'm no expert, And since we had that conversation, I've dug a little deeper to make sure I was at least

sort of correct in what I said, because I heard it from somebody else. But what I said to you is I had heard that the reason why Tibet became so spiritual and became known as the spiritual epicenter was because the warrior class within that culture got turned on to seeking enlightenment through Buddhism. So it was once the kind of king who was in charge of all the soldiers,

many centuries ago now, there was one king in particular that had kind of conquered everything, and once everything was conquered, they turned towards a more peaceful and lightened culture. And yeah, it took a couple centuries from the time that he had this vision, but future rulers kept at it, and it was through kind of that, those warriors turning towards enlightenment, turning towards meditation, turning towards Buddhism, that once that particular class had been converted, then everybody else got on board.

And I've, in working with veterans recently, that just kind of popped in mind, because I'm seeing it working with you guys. It's like, wow, these guys have seen everything. These guys have been through everything. These guys have had amazing experiences and a lot of those experiences weigh very heavy and to be able to turn you guys inward as it were to do your own healing and come out the other end and have a sense of peace

and have a sense of realization and understanding, it's like, wow, if we could, you know, if we can take the warrior class in our society and turn them towards these more kind of awakened ways of being, then I think we could change the world that way. I think you're right, man. I mean, I've had, I can't name how many people off the top of my head that have said,

across me, that have been through this. And everybody has damn near the same consensus after they've finish the treatment. And I think the word is spreading like wildfire through that particular community and maybe even into the civilian population. So it's cool, man. Well, yeah, I can't take credit for all those guys that you mentioned. There are other great providers out there.

But yeah, I think as far as I know, everybody you mentioned went through the same protocol that you went through, which just seems to be this incredible combination, especially for you guys who suffer tremendous trauma in general, but then specific traumatic brain injury, like firing 50 caliber weapons for decades or being a breacher and getting, you know, in the blast radius of explosives all the time.

It does, there's some wear and tear on the body and it seems like this combination of five MEODMT really seemed to help somehow. Yeah. Well, let's talk about how you got into this. So you're from Canada and you started it in Canada, correct? And from you go ahead, you actually take it. There was a gentleman by the name of Nicholas Sand who moved to Canada from the States. He made a lot of acid in San Francisco area in the 60s

and then he was actually on the run and he moved to Canada to escape the law. And while he was in Canada, they produced a lot of LSD, like millions of hits of LSD. So it really spread across Canada in the mid-90s and showed up in my high school. And yeah, it didn't even, it wasn't even a decision to try it. It seems like it was just a natural thing.

I remember doing it one day all by myself, half a hit acid on a way to a movie. And I had no idea about the therapeutic potential of these substances at that time. But I do remember saying to my friends at the time, as we're in the middle of one of these experiences, saying, this is what the world has, this is what adults have forgotten that has made the world so screwed up. So there was some kind of therapeutic intuition coming through. There was, you know, I experimented a bit as a teenager and then really set it all on

the backburner for many years. And then when I moved to British Columbia from Ontario and I started living in Vancouver, there was a shop there called the Urban Shaman, which sold some legal and theogenic plants, and I started hanging out there a little bit at that time, and that's when I first heard of Iboga. And Iboga is a plant that has been used ceremonially for centuries in countries like Gabon, in Africa, a beautiful tradition called the Buidi tradition has grown out of the use of this medicine. And in the early 1960s, it was discovered that eboga and eyeball gain, a particular alkaloid

in the eboga plant, is very good for treating opiate use disorder or heroin addiction. So in the early 60s that discovery was made. So I heard about a bogey at that time, but more directly to the story of how I came to be here and work in this field. Post 9-11, I was new to Vancouver. After 9-11, I was kind of very distraught with the state of the world and was looking at ways that I might be able to make it a better place. And Vancouver has a neighborhood called the Downtown East Side, which is basically a four block radius of,

it's known as the poorest postal code in Canada, because it is, there's just a high rate of poverty there, and a high rate of a lot of the stuff that comes along with poverty, like drug use. And I was new to Vancouver, I 9-11 happened, I was looking at ways to give back this neighborhood looked like maybe it could use some help. So I just kind of very naively started looking at ways that I might be able to help this neighborhood. I knew I had no training in how to do that, but I thought maybe my fresh perspective might lead to some discovery nobody else is looking at.

And essentially that turned into about a 10 year networking and research project. In 2005, I really dug into it. I spent about six months going down there almost every day. I even moved into an apartment at the corner of Hastings in Maine, which is kind of the notorious corner there. And yeah, it really couldn't couldn't really find any solutions for a long time. But I kept at it and just had this intent that you know maybe I'll find something that can help one day.

And then in 2009, I was in a meeting with a woman who worked down there and I had been working on cruise ships for a few years before that. So I was just freshly back in Vancouver and wanted to start up my little pet project again. And through a conversation with a woman who works down there who's a bit of a legend, I was looking at ways that I might be able to help, speaking to her about it. And the whole time I was speaking to her, there was a binder on the wall behind her that said, I began on it. And just near the end of that conversation, I said, what about I beganagane? And she said, actually, I have people calling me for that all the time. There was an IBagane clinic in

Vancouver that had closed down a couple of years before, but their website was still up, and her name was on the website as somebody you might be able to get in touch with to find out more information. So she was getting this constant stream of phone calls. And I said, well, let me follow that thread because I was familiar with the plant medicine world. And it was of interest to me. So let me see what I can do with that. So she basically started forwarding all those phone calls

to me whenever she got a call about IBAGain. And I gave it to a couple of people right out of the gate, and I'm really lucky that they didn't buy. Because I didn't know what I was doing. IBAGain is a potentially dangerous substance. And thankfully, nobody was hurt, but I saw pretty quickly that I didn't know what I was doing, and I stopped that.

So the phone kept ringing, and I would essentially tell people to go to Mexico. If you are planning on doing it on your own, you probably shouldn't. But if you are, here's a few things that I know. And then in 2012, this woman who kind of had this idea with me. She called me one morning and she said, did you know that there's an I-Begaine providers conference in town? And I didn't.

And she said, well, I put your name on the list as a provider. You should go down there. So it was a global I-Begaine therapy alliance conference. And Jonathan Dickinson, who is a current business partner, he was actually running that. And we met, became was actually running that. And we met, became kind of fast friends, and at that conference I met a lot of people

from the IBA game community, really incredible people that have been kind of carrying the torch in this realm when known before it was cool, that's for sure. And they, I met my business partner, the guy who became my business partner at the time. He had been to Mexico. He had learned how to work with IBagane there, really wanted to work with it in Canada. So we put together a business called it Liberty Roots Therapy Limited. That's still a corporation that I own in Canada. And we worked with IBagane and I was able to legally I own in Canada. And we worked with IBegin and I was able to legally do that in Canada. From 2012 when we started through until 2017,

IBegin was listed as a natural health product in Canada, so that's a supplement would be a natural health product, a rodeo, or ginkgo, or blobber, or something like that. So Ibergain got kind of miscategorized into a natural health product, which gave this window of opportunity to work with it legally. In 2017, Health Canada rescheduled Ibergain because a natural health product shouldn't be potentially dangerous

and Ibergain is potentially dangerous. So it was listed as a prescription drug from that point on. So it's on the prescription drug list, but because it hasn't gone through phase one, two, and three clinical trials, it's not available as a prescription in Canada. So it's kind of in this no-go zone. So within the five years I was legally working with it,

we started with a three bedroom town home that we would provide the medicine out of. We brought in one person at a time. How did you find those people? For one, that woman was still forwarding phone calls to me. So as soon as we opened business, for the first three months, we just had a really continuous stream of referrals.

And then those referrals dried up, and then I just started putting a bit more energy into the website, and yeah, people found us. So what was your, did you have like a specific criteria that you were looking for to treat people? Well, I began as really good at helping people overcome opioid use disorder. So addiction to heroin or fentanyl or that kind of thing.

So that it's good at helping people overcome other addictions as well, but it works better than anything else to get people off opiates. So, and being addicted to opiates is an expensive habit. So it would cost, I think, when we started probably about $6,500 to come in for the week, but there's an advantage to spending that money to come off your expensive heroin habit. So when we first started, it really was people that were hooked on opiates that we treated for the most part. So that's how I began really became known in the

Western world is this can get people off heroin. So you know like you went through the 24-hour long I began experience you can give somebody I begangan and within an hour or so, their withdrawals are gone. And then they go through that incredible journey, like you experienced, but then they come out at the other end and credit to Howard Lotsoff was the gentleman in the early 60s in New York City. His chemist friend said, you might be interested in trying this Ibogan stuff. And he did.

And he was hooked on heroin at the time and he went through this incredible journey. He came out the other end He said, wow, I'm never gonna do that again But then he's like wait a second. I haven't wanted heroin the whole time I've been on this nor do I want it now So that's when it's anti-addictive properties were discovered and thankfully he was a real champion For the medicine and started talking to people and trying to get people to pay attention about what I began's potential was and he was successful at that.

And yeah, those are primarily the people that we treated. We did do some some for depression and different psychospiritual reasons and helping people overcome alcohol use disorder and cocaine addiction. But mostly people for opioid use disorder. We treated about 75 people through that first place, one person at a time, and then we graduated to a larger house and we could treat three people at a time at the larger house. It was under a semi-medicalized context. We had a doctor that would work with us to prescribe anything that we needed. We had a nurse that would come in during the actual eye-bogane experience itself.

And that was good, but compared to what we're doing now, it almost feels underground, because as you've seen what we're doing now is fully medicalized. We have a paramedic on duty 24 hours a day while you're there. We have a doctor, present, when we're giving the eye-bagain itself as well as three other nurses or paramedics. So we're really kind of over the top with safety now where I've always wanted to be. But in just trying to kind of put things together

in a gray market within Canada, I wasn't able to bring it up to the level that I've got it now, and thankfully we're there now. Yeah. Well, what was your success rate start now? Well, anecdotally, I began as a success rate in helping people overcome opiate use disorder that's anywhere from kind of 40 to 60%.

I think with all with proper pre-care and proper aftercare, you can get the number up quite a bit higher than that, but 40 to 60%. If you look at that compared to addiction treatments, statistics, in other realms, whether it's checking yourself into a 30-day facility or going to meetings or whatever it is, I think if you look at a meta-analysis of how successful AA is or NA is, it's not more than 10% successful. So, yeah, there's a psychedelic connection to AA, we can talk about later too. Perfect.

Yeah, I mean, I haven't had a drink since I've been down there, since before I went down there, because I think it was four days prior. Yeah. No boozing, which was kind of tough for me. And I still haven't, it's been almost two months to the day. That's amazing. Yeah, if it's okay to share a few details of your journey from my perspective, when we

first started talking, one of the questions on our application is, do you drink? Yes. How much, however much, And then do you think you can or are you able to stop drinking for seven days prior to coming in? And I think your answer was I'm not sure. I remember speaking to you about that and just saying, look, you're definitely we can't have you in any kind of a detox situation for alcohol with with opiates. We can have somebody use opiates right until the day we're gonna give them eye-bagane.

But alcohol detoxification can kill you. So we need to make sure that your detox stuff alcohol before giving somebody eye-bagane. That's not even why I went down there. And I literally have, I just don't have any cravings at all, none, for coffee, for sugar, for booze, for, I mean, it's really, that was unexpected. That's why I was, it was, it was, yeah. It was really speaking to the power of the substance, like without any, in working with medicines like this,

the word intent comes up a lot, like what's your intent going into this? And a lot of people come in with the intent that obviously they wanna stop heroin or whatever, but to see and I went through the same thing, I stopped drinking for four years after an aboga journey, and I too had zero intent to stop drinking but to know that you can go into this even with no intent and the I've again kind of just says out of the way I've got

some plans for you. If you bend to where this originates from by chance? No, I'm sad to say I haven't there was a A trip that I was supposed to take to Gabon and I took I paid a $3,000 deposit even but then I began was outlawed in Canada So I didn't see any income for a couple of years after that or From where I was sitting I didn't see where any was gonna come so I had to cancel that trip I'm afraid but I definitely want to go my business partner just got back from about a month and a half there so We do the company does have some pretty strong connections to

Gabon and and really want to make sure that as this moves forward that those Those people in the country that have really been the torchbearer for this medicine get the reciprocity it deserves. Yeah. Do you? How many times have you done? I have again.

I've taken seven large doses, flood doses, we call them. And how many years? I've been working with it about 10 years, so, you know, I try and do it about once a year. The most recent time was just before Christmas, my partner, Brianna and I did a journey together. I wish I could say it gets easier. It doesn't dozen games. I've had some beautiful experiences through IBAGain, and then I've just had some very challenging experiences through IBAGain as well.

This last time was as challenging as anyone I've ever had. So maybe it does get easier for some people, but. Do I share anything in particular through those seven times that was just more profound? I think that that time when I stopped drinking alcohol, it was, that was, I did the medicine with my friend Mark Howard, who I was featured in this documentary, Dost with as well. But Mark Howard has been to Gabon. He has apprenticed under Ashaman from that culture,

from a particular lineage. And in that lineage, they take medicine, and then they'll do something called a soul journey. So almost taking people high on the medicine through almost like a visualization exercise, but I think to call it a soul journey would be a more accurate depiction of what's going on. But he had me write out 10 questions that he wanted me to ask the medicine. 10 questions I wanted to ask the medicine.

And then through this sole journey, he essentially took me through those questions. So he waits until the medicine is kind of at its peak. And he does a nice thing to see if you're ready for it. I had a blindfold on and he starts tapping me here in this third eye region. And he goes, tell me when you can see my finger.

And sure enough, even with this blindfold on, I'm like, oh, I see the finger. And then he knows you're ready. And then he took me through this exercise where it kind of takes you to your inner child and giving your inner child a hug. And one of the questions on the, on my list was I would like to see my grandma and grandpa who had passed on, it's known as an ancestor medicine. People often see people who have who are deceased through the

Ibergain journey. So Mark brought me to, he said, now find your grandma and grandpa. And my grandma and grandpa showed up. And my grandmother was kind of the unconditional loving energy that she always was. And my grandfather stepped forth. And he died when I was in grade four. And he had, he was a World War II veteran and he saw a lot of action and he drove a motorcycle back and forth from the front lines. And he spent most of his life after the war trying to figure out what the hell happened through the war. He wouldn't speak about his experiences with anybody but fellow veterans.

He spent a lot of time in legions, the Royal Canadian Legion, and when he traveled across Canada and through the States, he would meet with other veterans there. And he self-medicated with alcohol, with beer. He would drink a case of beer a night kind of thing, and he was a lovely man. He wasn't an angry drunk or anything like that, but it really kind of affected my mother and in some way made me interested in addiction because my mother growing up would say don't do that. You'll get addicted Don't do that. You'll get addicted and in a certain way Addiction became the forbidden fruit. I wanted to understand better but it also allowed me to kind of as I did explore it something

kept the distance between me and any really bad Addictions, but my grandfather stepped forth in this as I'm as I'm on the medicine and he said Trevor You need to stop drinking for my lineage It was just very clear. That's what he came forward with. Nothing else. Yeah. So later on in that journey, Mark had me, he said, he had me flying and he said, now fly to your house. And the house that I was living in at the time was this beautiful 6,500 square foot mansion on a couple of acres where we treated people with Ibegan.

And he said, go to your front yard. And he said, is there any tree there? And I said, yes. And it was this beautiful. We had two beautiful cherry trees in the front yard. And it was the time of year that they were flowering. So these two giant pink flowery trees and he said go up to one of those trees and I did and he said give the

tree a hug. So I gave the tree a hug in my vision and he said ask that tree what the meaning of life is. They're what the purpose of life is and I asked the tree what's the purpose of life is. And I asked the tree, what's the purpose of life? And the tree came back with the answer to flower, which to me was just a perfect answer from a pink flowery tree, which I think speaks volumes of what the true purpose of life is. I think that is what we're here to do, is grow a solid base so that you can finally flower.

And then he asked me another question. He said, he said, he asked that tree, something about negative tendencies, like how to get rid of negativity in your life. And I asked the tree, whatever this question was, however, I worded it. And the tree said, stop watering your weeds. And to me, that spoke about alcohol. And alcohol, my relationship with alcohol, like I said, I did my best to keep it at a distance

because I'd been forewarned about the addictive tendencies in our family. And, but that didn't stop me from drinking and I've been on some benders. That's for sure. But at that point in my life, I wasn't drinking that much, but I was having a bottle of wine every now and then. It's not like the bottle of wine created a tremendous hangover the next day, but it was watering my weeds. It was watering my depression. It was watering my procrastination. It was watering my lethargy. So after this journey, I kind of got up the next day and I was speaking to Mark about, I said, yeah, a whole bunch of stuff came up about alcohol. And he said, well, and he had stopped drinking a few years before because he really needed to. And that's

the reason why he came into the, the aboga world is he needed help overcoming some of those negative patterns in his life. And he said, well, there's an argument to be made because of the nature of the work that we've chosen, treating people with addiction, that maybe we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard. And I said, yeah, you know, that just makes a little too much sense for me. So maybe I'll try and stop drinking. The next day, I was driving home and had an urge to go to the pub I always went to and

flirt with the pretty girls that worked there and have a few beers. And I thankfully called Mark and said, yeah, I have an incredible urge to go for a drink. He said, well, you don't have to stop forever, but at least while all this good medicines in your system, and I began to stay in your system for a while after, you know, maybe just skip it tonight.

So I went home, I went to bed, I woke up the next day, and my relationship to alcohol totally changed. Like just any desire to drink. Like you're talking about just was gone. And I went three and a half years at that point without a single drink. It really kind of just fell away joyously. In the past had I been the designated driver or something like that, and I was out with a bunch of people who were drinking and I wasn't drinking, I would be bitter. I would be upset that I wasn't joining in on the party.

But after this, it was fine. I would hang out with people who were drinking and it was okay. Yeah. And yeah, it just fell away beautifully. And then I have, there was one very interesting special occasion that came up, which was my first glass of wine that I had after about three years. And I've allowed a little alcohol in here and there, but you know, never been drunk and

have really, yeah, keep it at a distance and respect its power and sure I'll have an occasional glass of wine on a special occasion, but other than that, my relationship to alcohol really has completely changed. It sounds like you had like a lot of visuals during that particular journey, I personally felt a lot more, I don't know really how to describe, but there's a lot more like intuitive type thoughts or intuition. That's, I'd say primarily that's the way I experience some medicine as well, with Mark actually guiding me through a visualization exercise and I'll kind of picture this and go here. I, I, like, when I, when I went to the front yard of my house and hugged that tree, I really did feel like I saw the tree,

but I was thinking even as I was explaining this to you about my grandparents, it's, I didn't feel like I actually saw my grandparents. It was like an intuitive hit that they were there and The very first time I did a large dose of Ibane I I Know that I did have incredible visuals and it I Remember saying to the people in the room that were sitting for me. I said, oh, I wish everybody could see this but The next day and moving forward. I can't remember what I was seeing when I said that. So the, and then I'd say most of the journeys I've had with Iboge is it's more like, it's more like feelings that come across me that are delivering the messages. And I think as I like to tell people who are going

to be taking the medicine is not everybody does have visuals. And that's okay. Everybody still seems to get what they need from the medicine. And it's when you, even if you do have incredible visuals, a month or two later, when you're thinking about the benefits you got from that experience, you're not going to be sitting there thinking about all the things you saw. It's more like what changed in your life afterwards. That's what's exciting about this medicine is what kind of, how many degrees did your course change after that experience. Yeah, I definitely, I mean, I've only done it once.

And I don't, I want to do it again, but I don't think it's time yet. But it does definitely change. Things continue to change for the better up to kind of a certain point. I think I may have plateaued, but it was, I don't say that lightly as I plateaued, like I don't know what else could have gotten better.

But let's take a quick break and then I wanna kind of get into a little bit of the science and maybe some higher consciousness type stuff if you're down to talk about that. Great. Yeah, let's take quick break. You guys want to know what every woman wants and none of them will tell you what it is. I'm going to tell you.

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SHWN at manscaped.com. That's 20% off with free shipping at manscaped.com. Use code Sean. It's time that you enjoyed the finer things in life and get yourself a platinum package for your platinum package. Alright, so we're back from the break. Let's get into some of the science behind. I began in why it's doing, why it's curing all these addictive, addictive traits. And it's just doing so much. It's killing anxiety for a lot of people, depression, addiction.

It helped me be in the moment. It helped me with all of that stuff. Anger issues. What are some of the other things? Yeah, who knows. It's so hard to put your finger on all the things that it does for people, but yeah, especially in working with veterans, you see so many guys coming in, say that they want to work on their anger issues, and anger just falls away for a lot of guys.

Yeah, it helps people overcome addiction. It helps people. I've seen these substances help people with obsessive compulsive disorder. I've seen overall these substances are generally contraindicated to bipolar, but I have seen so you wouldn't necessarily treat somebody automatically with bipolar. You would need to really dig into the case and make sure that they're going to be able to go through the experience safely. But I've seen it, there's one incredible case study where a woman accidentally overdosed on LSD, took way more LSD than she should have. She was a young woman. She ended up in the hospital. It was a really rough night, but when her father walked in the next day, she said, it's gone, meaning the bipolar was gone. And years later, it's still gone. So I've seen, I began work for that as well. Just that's like an end of one, just one guy.

So who knows all the things that can help with? I've seen it help with neurological disorders, like fibromyalgia. I've seen it's really good at treating Parkinson's disease in low doses. You just microdose a bit of eye-bagane every day and it seems to better the dozen or so Parkinson's symptoms. But way more research needs to be done. These are outlawed in the United

States, so it's hard to do research. It's molecules that are no longer patentable, so it's not like big farmers rushing to study IBAGain. I've also read that this is supposedly might be able to help with all timers. Yeah, who knows. I've heard that as well. I just, you know, the name of my business is New Valve Nurogenesis. Like it is doing some kind of neurogenesis. And I don't know if that's going to work for all cases.

We did work with somebody recently who was a former professional athlete. He had suffered a lot of concussions early in his career. At 65 or so, he's starting to see some cognitive decline. We gave him, put him through the protocol, and he's gonna continue with microdosing, and he hasn't seen dramatic changes. So, you know, it's not a magic bullet for everything. It's, I wonder if we, if he had, I will gain 20 years ago, or 30 years ago,

what that might do for where he's at now. And that's kind of my intuition around all simers and dementia. I'm not sure we're gonna be able to treat the worst off cases with this medicine, but if you can catch somebody in the early stages of those diseases, I wonder what would happen. Is it just, I have a gain, let's do all this, or is this psychedelics in general?

No, I think it's important to recognize that psychedelics in general are incredibly promising. And there's a lot more science on some of the other substances over the years, because LSD was invented by Albert Hoffman in the late 40s, early 50s, then it was kind of shipped out to Sandoz pharmaceuticals, sent out to psychiatrists and medical practitioners around the world saying we found this interesting molecule, give it a go and let us know what you think about it. So before it was outlawed, there was massive research on LSD. And, you know, there's a proud Canadian history to researching psychedelics as well. Albert Humphrey Osment was a British doctor who worked in Weberns, Saskatchewan, in Canada. And there was a mental hospital there where they did a lot of research on LSD.

Humphrey osmond actually coined the term psychedelic, which comes from psychi, which is the mind or soul, even, so psychi, and then, psychedelic comes from delos, which means to make manifest. So these are mind or soul manifesting substances and Humphrey Osment coined that term while he was working in Canada. But at that hospital, they did studies on alcoholism. They treated over 750 people for alcoholism

with a more than 50% success rate. Silicibin mushrooms or psilocybin is the act of ingredient in magic mushrooms. It's kind of the drug that I think has been studied the most in this new psychedelic renaissance that has started within the last 10 or 15 years. Silicibin's very good at helping people overcome end of life anxiety.

So people who have been diagnosed with terminal illness and they take a single psilocybin session and by that I mean taking the medicine in a controlled setting with somebody sitting for you with a blindfold on, with headphones on and a playlist and just going deep into yourself for the six or so hours that the medicine affects you. And people come out after that and aren't scared of death anymore and are kind of at peace with where their lives are headed. Yeah, so there's just incredible promise. MDMA is the other substance that, so MDMA and psicide and are both in clinical trials to become prescription medicines. MDMA has been brought through the clinical trial process

by an organization called Maps, the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies, and Rick Doblin is the founder of that organization, and he's basically been working since about 1983 to turn MDMA into a prescription. So MDMA has been used, it's being used to treat post-traumatic stress disorder and in order to get in the clinical trial, you need to have post-traumatic stress disorder

that nothing else has worked for. And they're in phase three clinical trials right now with breakthrough therapy status, meaning the FDA is excited about what they see, so they're pushing things through a little quicker because there's a great need for the substance as well. And in the phase two clinical trials, like I say,

you need to have treatment resistant PTSD and 78% of the people after that protocol, which is three MDMA sessions split apart by a month each with support, with therapy before, during, and after, 78% of those people no longer qualify as having post-traumatic stress disorder. Wow. So it's just a real game changer. How long does that experience last? That's about six hours as well. Six hours, yeah.

Yeah. So the MDMA is, you know, the street drug ecstasy. And yeah, it's interesting what it seems to be doing. We call it the heart medicine. It really opens up the heart. So a way to treat trauma is you get people to go back to the traumatic event and relive it and kind of, it takes away the sting a little bit. But sometimes it's hard to get people to go back to those traumatic events. And with the MDMA and their system opening the heart, it makes it easier to have

compassion for the situation, yourself, anybody else involved. And it just changes the context around the whole event so that it doesn't sting and trigger you the same way that it used to. Are, are different psychedelics used for different things other than because I began to help me with all of that. Is it like dosing that's different or is it the actual ingredient? Am I making it? You know, if somebody came to me and said, like came with a specific thing they were trying to overcome, like if somebody was over trying to overcome depression

and psilocybin was available and legal, I would say start first with psilocybin. It might take care of you. It's kind of low-hanging fruit rather than having to commit to a 24 to 36-hour-long eye-bagane journey. You might be able to accomplish the same thing with a Silas Ivan journey. I had, once I had stopped working with eye-baggan in Canada, I had a friend who reached out, who had a friend in really, she had just kind of come clean with her friends and family that she had a really big issue with cocaine and alcohol.

And wanted to know if I could give Ibegan treatment. And I said, well, Ibegan's a big investment. It's going to cost for a detox. It might cost you you know ten thousand dollars and take ten days and I wasn't operating at that level at the time. I said but as long as you're able to stop the alcohol and the cocaine for at least a week before so that you're not in any kind of detox situation, then to do something like a psilocybin journey, that might take care of what's going on. So that's what happened with this woman.

She was able to put up a support mechanism whereby she wasn't drinking for a week or using cocaine, stayed with her father, I think, and kind of just detox that way. And then came in with somebody and did a psilocybin session, and I know she hasn't used cocaine or alcohol ever since. I think it's been about three years now. Wow. So it's like a potency. Yeah. It's just, you know, it's kind of, yeah, who knows? It heals. It heals at that deep

level. I think the level we're going to talk about now, just something within the deeper realms of consciousness gets fixed or more insight is brought to help people move forward without the need for those substances they know are destroying their lives. What about just while we're on the topic of all these different psychedelics? What about ayahuasca? Yeah, ayahuasca is a plant medicine from the Amazon, Peru generally. It's two plants brought together. One of the plants contains DMT, which is the psychedelic, and then the other plant contains an

male inhibitor. So when you take DMT orally into your mouth, it immediately gets destroyed in your stomach. But when you have this inhibitor mixed with it, then the DMT becomes orally active. So then it stays in your system and Iowaska is kind of anywhere like a four to six hour long journey. And then you can also, you can also, they, or smoke DMT itself, which is, is shorter and more potent. I've heard it describe that taking Iowaska, you, you climb a mountain for a couple of hours and then you go down the mountain on the other end, whereas with smoking it, you kind of just teleport to the top of the mountain for a few minutes and then drop back down.

And that's NNDMT, which is different than the 5MEO DMT that you did and that I work with. Is that the most potent, the 5-M-E-O? I think it's pretty potent. I think as, you know, you use less substance, and it takes you further, or I don't know if it takes you further, but it takes you kind of beyond everything else. What was your, what was your 5-M-E-O journey like? Oh man, it was, well, let me, it was,

it's so hard to describe this stuff, but once again, for me, it wasn't very, it was all, almost all my journey that I did with you, I've again, and the 5MEO was more intuitive intuition type things. There wasn't a whole lot of visuals. The one visual, well, it started from the beginning. I remember sitting there with you

and the other guy getting ready to do it. And you're like, look, you might scream. It's a death experience. And that was on one of the things that we watch prior to doing it. And man, I'm, I had not been, I struggled with anxiety. That was a whole new level. I haven't felt that kind of anxiety in a while. And I remember saying I was like, am I the only one that scared shitless to do this? Right now I was like, is this normal? Cause I feel like I should have been more nervous

about the eye began than the five MEO. And you guys both said, yeah, no, that's totally normal. And I did, then when I did it, when you gave it to me, it took me to definitely took me to my most vulnerable point in my entire life. And I felt like everything bad, all the negativity, all the anger, suffering, all of that resentment, I feel like it got sucked out of me in about, probably, 30 seconds, 45 seconds, maybe a minute. And I just felt like all these areas in my body were all shaken. I didn't feel like my whole body was shaking. I felt like it was

body was shaking, I felt like it was like maybe like half dollar size knots. And my body getting worked out. That's kind of what it felt like. And then once they were worked out, I felt like everything just got sucked right out of me. Wow. And then it was all, then I opened my eyes and I was looking at the exact same thing that I looked at before, but it was totally different. And like people talk about the energy and all of that and that higher consciousness and I got to be honest

like I went down there with an open mind but I always thought that kind of stuff was kind of hokey you know I was like yeah yeah okay whatever now I'm like all in so I I saw it's weird. Like I said, I saw the exact same thing, but it was with new eyes. Yeah, it was like just something switched. And my brain, that's why I was asking about higher level consciousness

because I could feel this energy. And I give a great description on this, on that previous video that I released, but I could see all the energy being transferred from thing to thing to thing, and it was all one energy. It wasn't like your energy is different than my energy and different than the tree and the grass. You could, for the first time in my life, I realized I was that everything had the exact same energy within it, and it was all being transferred in every direction, being received, being sent out, like it was all just one flow. Kind of, I guess, is kind of the way I would describe it, I guess. Amazing. And I didn't all the things that I've been holding onto.

I mean, I've known you for what, four days at that point, and I admitted something to you that I'd never met into to anybody, not even my wife and one other person, one other person I admitted that to and I felt like great, you know, and the only like visual visual that I got was right when I first took it and you do the countdown. And it was this explosion of red, yellow, pink, kaleidoscope. But that lasted for a second. Yeah. I mean, it was like, man and out. So, so, NNDMT, which is the ayahuasca DMT,

it's especially when you smoke it, or not especially when you smoke it. It overall really does have the colors and the kaleidoscopes and the visuals. It's, people talk about, you know, going to different dimensions and meeting entities and machine elves is a term that comes out there, some kind of machine elf out there in the cosmos

that people bump into. And ayahuasca is a kind of more extended version of that. And incredibly healing, incredibly powerful. I've heard amazing healing stories from ayahuasca, which is quite popular right now and I think for good reason. It's incredibly good for people. But yeah, what you're describing about the kind of seeing the energy and the connection between everything after your your journey. For me, I often say to people that these substances,

they don't seem to add anything to anyone. It's not like you take ibogaine and this missing piece is finally put in place and you can live life better from then on. It's more like, as we see life, we're seeing life through a filter. It's like we see life through a pain of glass. And as we live, that filter gets dirty.

Our heart gets broken, we're betrayed. Things don't turn out the way we would have hoped. And that glass gets dirty, and it gets so dirty that we don't even notice it's dirty anymore. And like just imagine driving on the highway and your windshield gets super dirty. You turn on the windshield wiper and then all of a sudden you can see clearly again and it's beautiful outside again,

but while all that gunk is on you, you can't tell how great life is and I think that's what these substances do. It's not that they add anything to you. They're just really good at cleaning that glass from the inside out. And then once that glass is clean, you're like, oh, wow, I'm seeing things in an entirely different way because this glass hasn't been clean in a very long time. But when you speak of, when I, when I prepare people for the five meo journey, me and my team, when you take a boga, there's

still very much a sense of you. I wouldn't necessarily call a boga an ego destroyer. A lot of the substances that label gets put on them. I wouldn't necessarily call a boga an ego destroyer. When you take a bogey, there's very much a sense of you. Like, did you ever not know you weren't, you were in that room, like you knew you were in that room the whole time. Yeah, no, I didn't lose. Yeah, you never lose a sense of self. Exactly. Like, I feel like we could have this

conversation that we're having right now and be just a sharp on that. Yeah, and you might close your eyes and have visuals, but it's you having the visuals. It is you witnessing something. All that all, maybe you interact with Iboga itself and or a higher power, but it is you interacting with the higher power. And with the fiveMEO DMT, which is, you know,

for context of where the substance comes from, it comes from the back of a sonoran desert toad. It's an excretion from the back of a toad that you would take that excretion and put it on glass and dry that out and then vaporize that. But there is also a synthetic version of 5MEO DMT, which is what we use,

because in order to get that stuff from the toad, you need to catch a toad and scare it, and that's how the excretion gets harvested. So not entirely ethical, especially you don't know if you don't know where it's coming from. Some people have toads for pets. And with them, you can kind of play with them like they're a dog and get them riled up.

And that might be a more ethical way of getting the natural source. But we're able to use a synthetic version, which is just as powerful in my perspective. And that's what we use. But when you do 5MEO DMT, it does have the potential to be kind of an ego destroyer. And what that means to me is we are completely interconnected to everything else. Like that sun above us, you know, it's the source of life on the planet. None of us can do without that sun. There is no disconnection between us and the light that that sun

throws onto earth. And then that light gets transformed into the plants that we eat, that grow out of the soil that we walk upon, that then get turned into our bodies when we consume them, we breathe air. We can't go much more than a couple of minutes without a breath of air. So we are incredibly connected. We are at one with this thing that is our environment, but we have a psychological barrier that says, this is me and this is you, and that's the sun over there, and that's the plant over there, and that's the water over there. In reality, you know, we are those plants, we are that water, we are that earth, we are that sun. So for me, what it seems that 5 Meo DMT is breaking down that psychological barrier between you and the unity you are actually a part of.

So that can be fearful to a certain degree. I think what I probably said to you before we gave the medicine as I was working with one five me oh practitioner at one point. He said, you might feel like you're going to explode. Just explode. You might feel like you're going to die. Just die. And that's the preparation I like to give now is when you inhale this, I'll count down from 10 and when you hit zero, just let go. And what does let go mean? Let go means imagine you were just out on the most harrowing mission of your life. Maybe you were out for four days on a mission. You didn't sleep at all, but everything with that mission went perfectly.

You are absolutely successful. There's nothing to worry about. There's nothing to think over. All you have to do now is lay back into a feather bed and let go. So that's what I tell people to practice doing that. Because I think if you can just let go on that level when you take five of you and just be like, ah, then that'll get you smoothly through that feeling of dying. Because there is a psychological barrier.

It's real. And when you're about to melt that psychological barrier away, if you're hanging on too tightly, it could be a bit bumpy. That was so powerful. I can't imagine people not having a breakthrough, but I mean I know that they don't, but it's, I mean so the importance of actually letting go like you actually, what you're saying is you really do have to, you have to trust that saying is you really do have to, you have to trust that it's going to be okay. And I remember saying that to myself after I was screaming at the top of my lungs. I remember saying that to myself, like kind of coaching myself through until I broke through. And man, like now that I'm thinking about it,

I'm just going back. And I remember the first thing after all the anxiety and all of that got sucked out of me, the first thing that I've heard was, I swear it was the Earth's vibration. If you experienced anything similar to that? No, but no, it makes sense. But I felt that I could feel it and I could hear it.

And then I felt like my breath turned into the Earth breathing. Wow. That's kind of what I felt. And then, you know, and then, like I said, it was all like intuitive type feelings. The second time that I did it, I felt the presence of my best friend. No visual, no communication, I just felt him. And I started crawling into a certain direction, trying to actually, I don't know. It was just intuition. I know he's right there. But if you had, let's your son of yours?

Well, I'll say my experience next, but people I had a woman come through recently who had very suddenly and horrifically lost her husband. And she went through the same protocol you did and after the I Begin experience it was it was good for her but it didn't give her the closure on her husband like that and It was after the five-hemi o'journey. We should wear she's like he's with me He's with me like it just totally all of a sudden it just completely made sense once you I feel like Five me oh has five me oh is often called the God molecule or the bliss molecule

For one nobody ever called I would game the bliss molecule but but it I really feel like this this substance does bring you to almost like a heavenly state. Like, that's what heaven is going to be like. And the price to pay is in order to get there, you have to die. Like a part of you needs to go away for you to experience that thing that might always be there, but there's a barrier between it. Five Emmy O seems to be very good at helping you overcome that barrier.

I once did five MEO, you can snort it. There's a free-base version of it, and there's a salt version of it, and the salt version of it you can take into your nose, and it kind of extends the journey a little bit. So I was working with a therapist who does psychedelic therapy and he's a friend of mine and he just wanted me to really try his protocol that he uses, which is with a substance called 3MMC, which is an obscure molecule very similar to MDMA.

But what he'll do is the kind of a guided session with the 3MMC, and then about three hours into that, he'll offer up the five MEO. So I took the five MEO and normally between before five MEO, you're like you, you're nervous as heck before going into it. But because my heart was blasted open, and I was feeling great because of this other substance, 3MMC,

when he said, do you want 5M, you know, I'm like, yeah, let's go. I wasn't nervous at all. So that barrier wasn't there to overcome. And then for me, it was, the way I describe it is this journey. For me, it was the way I describe it is this journey. It was like all of a sudden I came to be the period at the end of the last sentence of the story of biological life itself. So it was like I, from this perspective, could properly see everything that had happened in all of creation. And the intuition that is that it is only from this perspective that you can cast a proper

judgment on life itself. So then the question came well, how was it? And the answer came back. It was good. That was awesome. The action, the adventure, the heartache, the romance, the wow. Life is amazing. And then it felt as though from that perspective, it was like a godlike perspective and then even God died. and it got even better from that point forward. Really? So yeah, it was...

I've a couple of times that I've done five MEO, I'm really surprised to come back to Earth. I'm like, oh shit, this is still here. We're still like, I'm at a point where I feel as though it's gone, it's over. I'm way beyond even thinking about it. And then consciousness returns to the body. I'm like, oh, there's still life to live here. Great, we can do that too. And it's good to know, I think 5MEO is really

like the red pill from the matrix. It lifts the veil on the matrix. And you see, thankfully, rather than like Neo woke up in a dystopian robot controlled future, I think our, our actual beyond the matrix that we're in on this earth is creation is incredible. Yeah. There's nothing but good news on the other side of that veil. Was that visual for you or was that intuitive? That was more intuitive. Yeah. Do you always wear the mask? Not always. I don't think I had, I think I did have a blindfold on for that journey that I just described. I almost, I began, I find it's very helpful to have a mask on. I feel as though I began really like to blank canvas, my partner, Brianna, the last time

she did, I began, she had a blindfold that wasn't quite light proof and she even flickers from the candle were coming through and she realized afterwards that she wasn't getting a clear view in her visions because of that. So I think I've again really does like a blank canvas. Although I know lots of people that haven't used it and still seen the benefits. Whereas 5MEO, I think it's just so powerful that I don't know, does it really matter if you're wearing a blindfold or not? It's kind of, there's a chance it's just going to shoot you out of your body anyway. Man, that's like, that was a death experience. Yeah. That was, you know, and I know I have more to go, but without, you know, just come, I always feel like kind of guilty saying this now,

but when I, when I first hit, you know, and I, I was let and go and I had that breakthrough, I was, I was really worried before that. I didn't do any research on five of me. I did research on Ive again because that was, that's the big, you know, that's the big, that's the commitment. And this almost sound like, hey, we're just going to give you a little icing on the cake to go home with. And I was, so I didn't really think much of it until we started watching the little documentary and then hearing you talk about it. And I was like, oh shit, I think I should have prepared for this portion

a little bit more than I did. And, but I was worried going into it. I was like, shit, can you die from this? Like, can you OD? You know, and that was in the back of my head and I was like, I'm not gonna Google it because I don't want to, I don't want to get paranoid before. But once I had that breakthrough, I know I was saying my wife and my son's name during my journey and for the first time, like I said,

I feel guilty saying this now, but it was okay to leave them. It was okay if I wasn't coming back. If that makes any sense at all, it was there going to be fine. This is where we're all going. This is where we want to be. I can't wait to be here. I can't wait till they get to experience this. And, but, you know, the entire experience I have with you that entire week was so profound.

I journaled the entire thing and I'm putting it in an envelope and when my son, and any other kids that I may have in the future, when things get too spun out of control form. I want them to read what I wrote and Find a way to do that and it's beautiful. Yeah, but Yeah, I don't know if you need to feel guilty about that. I think that's I think that's the truth. I think life has our back and and about that, I think that's the truth. I think life has our back. And to me, in working with five so many people now who go through an experience of psychological death and

see what's on the other side, to me, it's the greatest punchline ever. The thing we're all so scared of, death has more life on the other side of it than we've ever imagined in this 3D world. What are some of the other experiences that you've had? Well, my very first five-hemiodeamT experience, I think that's the most transformative psychedelic experience of my life. It was an interesting way that it happened. I mentioned before that I used to hang out at a shop called the Urban Shaman in Vancouver. They used to sell cannabis under the counter in the Wild West of weed Vancouver, BC, before

it was legalized in Canada. And I was sitting at work one day. I had a sales job. I was selling software. And the guy I was sharing the office with, he said, I'm bored. Does that shop on commercial drive still sell weed? Let's go get stuff. I said, yeah, let's do it. So what I had been doing right before then is that I was on a website called arrowwood, arrowwood.org. And there's a whole bunch of different trip reports of people taking different substances and what it's like for them. And I was on this website, like I say, we were bored. And I was on this website, like I say, we were bored. And I clicked on DMT for the first time. And I had heard of DMT, the active ingredient in Iowaska,

but I had never heard that you can partake of it on its own. And I was reading these incredible trip reports of DMT, but had never heard of it before this moment and I just said internally, wow, I really want to try that one day. Then my buddy says let's go grab some weed, I said great, let's go. We walked into this shop and it was a strange vibe. It was somebody that I didn't know working behind the counter and a whole bunch of people and I did have a

buddy that was in there. They had a lounge with some bead bag chairs where you could chill out and I had a buddy that was there and I said, hey, can we still get weed from this guy? And he said, yeah, but don't bother. This guy is selling $20.8 and it was some hippie guy and I'm like great so we went outside to do that deal and I I happened to mention another substance that I had on me and he goes oh wow I'll trade you that for some DMT so four hours ago I had never even heard of DMT now it's getting handed to me. And it turns out it was five Emmy O DMT. But I went back into the shop and I said, Hey, can we come back when this when the shop closes in order to partake in this? And I buddy that I did know was was had returned behind the counter and he said, yeah, no problem. So another strange part of the story is as I'm walking out of the shop then to

go kill a couple hours before I come back, a guy stops me in the part of the story is as I'm walking out of the shop then to go kill a couple hours before I come back, a guy stops me in the door of the shop and he says, hey, it's my birthday. I always do DMT on my birthday. Do you know where I can get any? Yeah, dude, actually, I just came across some. So come back at seven o'clock. So me and him and another guy sat down and did DMT and the first two guys went first. And I get goosebumps as soon as I start talking about this one. But I went last and it's used so little of it. Like it was a few salt granules that we put on a bed of weed and a pipe. And I took the hit. And as it came came into me I could all of a sudden feel complete awareness of every cell in my body and I could feel every cell in my body aware of me being

aware of it and there was this interchange of awareness. Then all of a sudden that awareness exploded to the whole universe. Like all of a sudden I was aware of every atom in the universe and same thing, I could feel every atom in the universe aware of me being aware of it. And kind of the ego seemed to disappear right away.

I kind of felt a big spiraling at my third eye area and then I was, it was as if I was just going through this process. I was witnessing this process, but it wasn't the same me, I always knew. And the, there was a presence that seemed to be guiding what was happening and as I was there, I could hear sounds coming from the street outside, and this presence indicating that all of those sounds in every site I'd ever seen and every sound I had ever heard had been sent to me with intent.

Like the present was literally pre-sent. It was all very thought out. Every smallest minutia in detail, there was a larger intelligence that had planted all out. And it seemed to show me that I am the one child of the universe. I am the Christ. I am the Buddha. And paradoxically, so is everyone else. We are all that one child of the universe, experiencing the multiplicity that is the universe. And then it, it, I could just sense just something and my ego started coming back and I said, what? What does it all mean? And this presence just indicated nonverbaly to me that it's perfect.

That's what I was experiencing. I was experiencing perfection. And I was trying to put words to it. I'm like, well, what is it? And this present said, it's perfect. You can't mess it up. Even your ideas of imperfection need this bed of perfection before it, or else you wouldn't experience anything.

Perfection is. And that's the lowest common denominator and the highest common denominator is existence is perfect. Like and you can see it right here. Like I don't know what's going on here but from what I'm told trillions of cells are working together to create this thing called my body, which I do not have the intellectual capacity to orchestrate, yet it's happening. So there is some kind of a perfection that needs to be there in order for this experience

to happen. So this was all very short, like maybe five or 10 minutes and then I could feel kind of consciousness returning to my body. I was on the bean bag chair, and there was a chest table on the table in front of me, and I remember thinking that if I was, oh yeah, but before that, I was kind of shown

that it was perfect, and I'm like, okay, great. Can I go back to normal now? And the presence seemed to indicate that yes, but this is what you're seeking. This is your heritage. This is what you're after in your, I had just recently become kind of a spiritually oriented person at the time that said, this is what you're, this is what you're after without the use of this substance. Is you're trying to come back to this consciousness. That's the point of your striving

is to come back to this consciousness of perfection but without the use of the substance. So I said, great, and kind of returned to my body. And yeah, I felt as though that with my mind, I could move the chest pieces on the table in front of me, which didn't happen. But consciousness returned to my body and I got up and I literally started jumping for joy. And in some ways I haven't stopped jumping for joy ever since. And I think that's the real gift of five MEO is it shows you beyond the veil in a certain way.

And then from then on, you just, no matter what happens, life's going to still throw you bullshit, but you just can't buy the bullshit in the same way anymore. You know, you've kind of seen beyond it. You've taken the red pill and you're like, yeah, I used to get super pissed off at this, but I know it's not worth it anymore. Yeah. Have you ever been able to reach anywhere near that level of consciousness through, like, meditation?

Um, I think so. Really? Yeah, I think I've gotten pretty close. It looks different. Maybe it's not quite as dramatic as that, but I think there's a quiet piece that I've achieved where I'm there, and it doesn't, you know, I have a fairly consistent meditation practice. It hasn't been as consistently lately, but yeah, I think there's just a certain degree of piece that I wouldn't be able to function in degree of piece that it I wouldn't be able to function and where I was before. But there's a certain degree of that which is still bridgeable to here, which I feel is though I largely operate

from. I still get a little more caught up in the bullshit than I'd like to sometimes. But yeah, then you can always kind of fall back into that meditation practice and remind yourself, oh yeah, it's just, it's crap, don't buy it. How long do you meditate for on average? I have a 21 minute meditation that I do. It was taught to me through Sadguru's inner engineering. Sadguru's an Indian mystic. He was actually just on Joe Rogan.

I was very stoked to see him on Rogan to get his teaching out there. So I was raised into a Christian church. I was born into the United Church of Canada, which is of the major religious organizations in Canada, it is kind of the most liberal, like it was the first to have to allow game ministers and it was the first to officiate gay wedding. So it's a very liberal church and kind of doesn't break you over the coals of guilt too much. It was fun, fun religion to grow up in. But at a certain point in my late teens,

I just stopped buying it. I'm like, why are these adults believing in this fairy tale? Like this just doesn't make sense to me at all. So I kind of threw the baby out with the bath water and became largely atheistic for many years. And then it was actually, in my early 20s, I realized then that books could actually teach you something. There was a book, my uncle recommended, that kind of took the weight of the world off my shoulders at the time, and I discovered, wow, books can actually teach you something. So that was when I really started

a self-education process and started reading like crazy about how to be successful, how to make money, how to be happy. And one of those books was The Science of Getting Rich. And in The Science of Getting Rich, it's an old book. It was written in 1918 or something like that. But the bottom line is there is a thinking substance that permeates the interspaces of the universe and a thought impressed upon this substance

brings about the thing thought about. So just in reading that paragraph at the time, it just hit me, I'm like, wait a second, that sounds like God. Did I throw, maybe I threw this religion thing out too soon. So, I started digging into all spiritual texts at the time and started to look for, it seemed to me that everybody was very good at seeing what in religion was different from one religion to the other, but I started digging in to see what do these religions have in common. And I started seeing very clearly that all these religions have something in common. They're

all basically teaching you how to be a good human being and how to live happily and how to forgive and how to make the most out of life. And I really kind of went on a very, you know, clear religious spiritual seeking. I started reading any spiritual teacher I could get my hands on and was really looking for something and read a lot over the years and really had a great intellectual understanding of so many different teachings. And I didn't, but I didn't like the concept of a guru. That didn't sit well with me. Something about that word and something about the implications. I think there's just been a lot of fallen gurus

and, you know, with multiple roles, roises and things like that. So I think that was the impression I had. And then I read a book called Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda, which is actually the book that Steve Jobs, when he died, he had that book handed out to everybody who went to his funeral.

Really? And then an interesting connection there is, when I read this book, it's the first and only book I ever read in its entirety on my iPhone. I got a free download of it. It was actually the only book Steve Jobs had on his iPad apparently as well. So autobiography of Yogi is Yogananda's autobiography, which starts with him as I think the fourth born child of an Indian family. He knew right away that he was spiritually oriented. His mother had been praying for

a son that might become a priest or a brama or something like that. And so his family kind of supported him. He was spiritually oriented, supported him on a quest to become a yogi. And when he was 14 years old, as is described in the book, the audiobooks awesome. There's an audiobook of autobiography of a yogi that's read by Oscar winner Ben Kingsley. So you have Gandhi reading, he played Gandhi. So you have him reading you the book and he's just got an amazing voice. But when Yogananda was 14 years old, he went on a mission to find his guru. And he had had dreams of this guru and he was he was he was going to go find them. So he went all over India and saw many people who could accomplish great things like, you know, tame tigers and, you know, all kinds of spiritual things,

levitate things like that, like really incredible things, but none of them were his guru and he knew that. Until one day, across a crowded marketplace he saw his guru. His guru saw him. They both instantly knew they ran over and embraced each other. They're like finally finally. So and the guru said you're going to come to my ashram in a year. Here's where it is. So that starts his formal training to become a yogi and I read that. I'm like, all right, I'd be open for a guru if it happens like that, you know, give me and across the

marketplace moment where I know on every level of my being that I have found my guru, I'll take that. So for about three years afterwards, I, anytime I saw a spiritual teacher, or even some of the ones that I had bumped into in the past, I just did this inner check, whether I saw their book or saw them on TV or whatever. I just did this inner check. I'm like, is this my guy? Is this my girl? And nothing, until one day,

I had started the first I began house by then and I was just surfing Facebook, which I'm not on anymore, but was at the time. And a guy who used to be a yoga teacher at a yoga studio that I went to shared this video, and I press play on this video, and it was this guy, Sadguru, talking about fear, I think to shared this video. And I press play on this video, and it was this guy, Sadguru, talking about fear, I think was the video.

Within 10 seconds, I think it was more like three. Every cell of my body lit up, and I knew this was my guy. Like I just instantly are like, holy shit, this is my guy. And he really hasn't disappointed since. I feel as though for the 20 years that I was kind of investigating spiritual matters

before that, I developed a really good bullshit detector. I could just tell if something was off and what somebody was teaching me, but with Sadgeru, he's just been this peerless teacher who has helped me a lot. And what I did shortly thereafter is I drove down from Vancouver to San Francisco where he was teaching his inter-engineering, which is essentially the outcome as you learn a 21-minute meditation that you

then do every day or a couple times a day. So I've been doing that, the inner engineering, the shambhavi meditation for about five or six years ever since. And I realized once I started that meditation practice that intellectually I understood a lot about different aspects of religion and spirituality and can kind of put them together, but until you have that daily practice where you are just sitting still and trying to get in touch with something bigger within yourself that you're really just paying it lip service.

It was once I finally started doing that practice that I actually started feeling a degree of spiritual peace within me. That's interesting. Mm-hmm. I've finally started meditating. I've heard about it for years. I just never thought I would ever be capable of sitting by myself.

That's another thing that I vocalized to you guys after the Ibugan actually. And then I came home and started it right away. And now I do it every single morning. I think I've missed maybe two in the past two months. Nice. That's huge. And sometimes twice a day, sometimes up to 50 something minutes, I couldn't even sit

with myself for probably two minutes, you know, without doing something, without working, without... That's beautiful, because I know that was your primary intent when you came down, as you just wanted to find presence, you know, to find a way to just be here present. But, man, let's take a quick break. All right. 75% of the human population struggles with sleep. I was part of that 75%. I'm a new parent, I'm a business owner, my mind goes about a thousand miles an hour of all hours of the day and night and it's hard to sleep.

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magnesium breakthrough when you go to magbreakthrough.com slash So, we're back from the break. We've been really diving into spirituality, you know, in finding all that after you take the medicine and some of your personal experiences. How many people do you talk to after they go through the treatment that are more connected and stay connected? Yeah, that's a good question. I've had one guy in particular, but I've had a few people kind of reflect back to me

the same thing, but basically he said, I was an atheist before this started. Now I know there's a God. And in the movie I'm featured in Doast, which is an excellent film. It features, it's a documentary that features one woman's journey using I've gained in magic mushrooms to overcome her heroin addiction and suicidal depression.

And at the end of that movie, I give her a psilocybin journey. And she had really, she had really tried to make the 12 steps and AA work for her before that. The one hump she couldn't get over was the step one of AA has something to do with a higher power and trusting the higher power to help you overcome your dependence. And she just had, as a lot of people do, they have a hard time with that higher power thing. Either church hasn't treated them all that well, or they're just kind of more naturally atheistic

or agnostic and can't quite figure it out. But after that psilocybin journey that I gave her, she had zero problem comprehending that higher power. Like she just really felt in touch and at one with that thing. There was a part of that journey. There were no cameras in the room when I gave her that psilocybin journey, but she started, she started making some noise, it was entertaining.

And I pulled out my iPhone and just started filming. And I handed the phone to the guys at the end and said, I want a photography credit. So I got a photography credit in the end. And, but she, one of the parts that didn't make the cut is she goes, that wasn't an orgasm. That was a life-gasm. I just felt every human emotion ever. And it was through that experience that she, you know, she still wouldn't be able to describe God to you,

but she knows she's touched on a higher something. And I think that's's when we were talking about psilocybin friend of life anxiety, I think it kind of does the same thing. And five MEO DMT, it really does have the ability of kind of connecting you to a higher power. And I understand that not everybody is comfortable with concepts like spirituality or religion or higher power even. So when I'm setting the intent of the week with people that are there, I'll explain to them that, look, these medicines

are going to meet you wherever you are spiritually. I had one guy he was describing his eye-bagan experience and he said, and then he took me here and then he took me here and then I was about the whole galaxy with him, and it was amazing. And just at the end of all of that, I'm like, who's he? And he goes, oh, Jesus. You know, so there's a chance of that guy was Buddhist that Buddha would have done that for him.

So there is, and then what I'll, how I'll set all that up and say that there is something mystical about what we're doing with these substances. And if you have a hard time with a concept like mystical, how about when you cut your arm, you don't have to tell those billions of cells how to come together to heal your arm. There is some kind of a higher intelligence way smarter than the English speaking voice in your mind that leaps into action and tells all those cells what to do. There is some kind of higher intelligence coordinating it. So I say with these medicines, we're at least calling upon that. There's some kind of intelligence beyond what we know that has the

capacity to help us. Let's call upon it. Let's bring it into our lives. You actually said that when we were down there about the cells and that that really resonated with me and it's just it's I mean I really honestly believe that it's you know I'd always heard this stuff, Unlocks your mind. And I never like really, it didn't click until I did it and it literally unlocks your mind. And I do feel that you're able to tap into, I mean, I don't feel.

I know you're able to tap into a higher level of consciousness, which, which, it's, maybe it's more intelligence. It seems like it. Well, back to the, the, I mentioned this at the start, that there's a psychedelic component to where AA came from. So Bill Wilson, Bill W. the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, his conversion, as it were, after years of trying to overcome his own alcoholism,

came from a Beledana experience. And Beledonna is another psychoactive plant. So it was actually through a psychoactive plant that he got sober and then he created AA out of that. But then in his later years he there's a book called Distilled Spirit, which you can look on YouTube for the Distilled Spirit's book trailer. It's kind of a five minute video that outlines the book, but it's the story of how Aldous Huxley, the famous writer who wrote Brave New World, and a book called Island, which was actually his

utopian vision. The last book that he wrote, which I highly recommend. We've all read his dystopian vision, but his utopian vision is much more compelling. And him as well as Bill W were the story of how they all came together, but Bill W in his later life, he really wanted LSD to become a part of the 12 steps, maybe step zero, because he saw that people did have a hard time with that higher power concept, which is critical to sobriety in those 12 steps. So he saw that if we could include LSD as step zero to have that spiritual awakening that so often comes from these substances. Then that would make the rest of the steps all the easier, because it is almost a, when

people do find sobriety in the end, it is almost like a spiritual conversion process that happens for them. Something shifts, and even in your life, like without intent, you had this spiritual experience with these substances at our center and all of a sudden alcohol is not as attractive anymore. No. Not attractive at all. How many how many people do you keep in touch with at your treat? Quite a bit. Like I said, up signal groups for everybody to stay in touch before and after. And yeah, the messages will pop up in those. And the doors open for everybody to stay in touch with me, and some people do more than

others. But yeah, it's a treat to stay in touch with people. And even back when I was primarily doing detoxes to see some of those people still thriving and flourishing from that. I feel as though we bring people in for high again and it's like we bring them in and get put them through one of the hardest weeks of their lives and it's like you're just shaking them up like this and then you set them down but they're on a slightly different angle. And I feel as though with I feel as though we're successful

When people leave they might feel as though they've made a 90 degree course change or 180 degree course change or 45 degree course change, but then when they get home not everybody did I began with them So you know life happens and and things whole drag you down again, but I feel as though we're super successful Even if we just get a five degree course change, because a five degree course change played out over 10,000 miles, you're in a completely different state than you would have been if you didn't get that small course change. And I think that's what we're really effective at is, and I think that's all it takes is just giving people that subtle course change, that five degree course change. Yeah.

That's a good, I like that. But I like the way you just described that. When people, so I know the addiction versus kind of the TBI, anxiety, PTSD, you know, whatever you want to call it, it's two TVI, anxiety, PTSD, you know, whatever you want to call it. It's two separate treatments, correct? It's two different protocols, but there's definitely, there's things that are related, like, for example, when I worked in Vancouver, I treated a special forces veteran who was hooked on heroin.

Yeah. I treated a special forces veteran who was hooked on heroin. So there's that. And the protocol is generally longer for a detox. So when we bring you guys in, it's a five day program. We bring people in on a Monday, send them home on a Friday with a detox. It's generally 10 days at least. So we'll bring them in for a few days, stabilize them.

If they've been using street drugs for some time, we'll switch them to morphine so that they're on a safe, clean version of an opiate for a few days. We'll hydrate them like you saw, we do IVs before and after and get people ready. So two or three days after they arrive for a detox, we'll start the actual detox with IboGain. And then they might require a couple of booster doses out the other end in case some withdrawals come back in a minor form, we'll give them a boost that way. But it's interesting when you talk about

traumatic brain injury, I mentioned Vancouver's downtown East Side, which was kind of the source of the inspiration for me doing this work. And there is a longitudinal study. There's a group of, I think, around 400 residents of the downtown East Side that a couple of years ago, Dr. Will Penenka published this with some other authors, but he found that of the people that he studied down there, they did a study of traumatic brain injury and every single person to the person that he studied has a traumatic brain injury. So it just makes you wonder growing up in a traumatic life with an object poverty, with things happening to you that causes a traumatic brain injury.

It's a chicken and the egg thing. What came first, the traumatic brain injury or the drug addiction, you know, is are they just self-medicating traumatic brain injuries using those substances? So it's just interesting to me that now I'm working specifically with veterans, mostly specifically for traumatic brain injury, but back when I was working primarily with addiction, and I still do a lot of that down here, we have another house that will do that will be treated addiction out of.

But, you know, how many of those people that I treated for addiction over the years had traumatic brain injury, and that's what led them into addiction. So, interesting questions. Yeah. How much of a role does Big Pharma play in keeping the stuff illegal do you think? I don't know that there is a specific agenda to keep these things illegal. I think I think just the momentum of a system that basically outlawed everything in the early 1970s

It does just fine at keeping everything illegal Everything being illegal does prevent a lot of research or puts up a lot more hoops in front of research It's only I think in the early 2000s maybe late 90s that psychedelic research started legally in the states again. I wonder if big pharma, I think there's probably people that have sat around boardrooms at big pharma meetings hearing about the benefits of psychedelics, but then when they look at it, from their perspective, I just don't think it seems feasible for them to develop a lot of these substances as pharmaceutical drugs. And I think that's for a number of reasons.

You can't patent a lot of these molecules. They've been around for a long time, if not forever, in nature, but even once they were discovered in nature, a lot of those patents have long since expired. So I don't think there's just not big pharma money to be made on these substances. There's no Pfizer vaccine money to be made on these substances. So I think that prevents these companies that are normally the entities that develop drugs. It's just preventing them from developing them as drugs because it's not, you know, it's

not going to look fiduciarily responsible for them to go down these rabbit holes. So I don't know that it's actually a nefarious trying to keep these things from being developed more than it is. If they don't develop them, nobody else can afford to develop them and they're just not interested in developing them to a large degree. So the groups that are developing psychedelics afford to develop them and they're just not interested in developing them to a large degree.

So the groups that are developing psychedelics as medicines, maps as I mentioned, Rick Doblin runs maps as a nonprofit. So he should be successful in developing this. He'll only be the second nonprofit in history to develop a drug through the entire drug development process. Otherwise, it's these billion dollar companies that develop these substances, only if they think they can make billions of dollars. So Rick has raised almost a hundred million dollars

in order to take this through the drug development process. And it's taken him since 1983. So that's not a very walkable path for most people. There's a couple other organizations that are developing psilocybin. One happens to have a benevolent billionaire behind it that really wants to see these developed, no matter what. One is a publicly traded company

that has raised a whole bunch of money to make this happen, but then they're trying to develop intellectual property around these, you know, because they are dumping so much money into them. Where's the IP so that I can kind of keep my piece of the pie here? So there's been a lot of weird patent land grabs to try and secure IP on weird things that, like, even touching somebody's arm during a therapeutic session, like, they've tried to grab a patent on something like that. So there's just a lot of weird things that are happening as these substances try and get

developed into pharmaceuticals. Another angle to consider is the opiate racquet, which I call it. So, you know, Purdue pharma really created our opioid crisis that North America is facing right now. They launched OxyContin. They said it was a non-addictive pain killer, even though it's chemically nearly identical to heroin. They just put a special coating on it and sold it as a non-addictive opiate, which it definitely wasn't. That created the opioid crisis that

we're in right now. So there, once you're physically addicted to opiates, it's not a moral failing, it is a physical addiction. Like once your, your body has endorphins, which are basically the natural pain killers within your body. And when you take an opiate, which is an external endorphin, basically, when you take that external opiate, eventually your own pain killing system shuts down. So there's a certain pain that just comes from living. Like your body is producing pain killers right now that prevent you from feeling the pressure of gravity

upon you, even. So when you take away that external opiate and your body no longer creates that internal opiate, you go into serious pain. And that's what withdrawal pains are. It's like that opiate is no longer in there. So if you know that all you need to do in order to get rid of that pain is to take another opiate, you take another opiate.

So that's what creates the cycle of addiction and dependence with opiates. So if you just ask, you say, well, why don't you just quit? It's not quite so simple. It's not a matter of just quitting. It's a matter of going through weeks and months of abject pain if you're gonna quit a substance like that. So what has been created as a solution are opiate replacement drugs.

So the popular ones are methadone and suboxone. So those don't get you off opiates, what they do is they replace the illegal street opiates with a legal opiate that you can go to the pharmacy and get some people need to go every day in order to take that. So there's a lot of money being made in giving people an opiate every day. There's a massive market and there's a lot of people involved in that market.

A lot of companies involved in that market. I know in Canada, if somebody who is an opiate dependent goes into a pharmacy and receives their methadone every single day, that pharmacy makes $6,000 a year off that person. So they don't necessarily want that person to get free of opiates. So not to mention the doctors that prescribe those. And when you're on those, you might need to go to the doctor every couple of weeks, at least at first, to make sure the program's working for you,

maybe at least once a month, so there's a lot of money being made in order to keep people on those. So, if I were one of those companies making all those that money, and somebody came along and said, but wait, we could give these people I'm again and they could be off opiates in a couple of days. It might cost a few thousand dollars to do that,

but it's not this ongoing perpetual profit. Yeah. It's not an opiate racket. So it's people, people, it's not a conspiracy theory to think that there's a bunch of people sitting in boardrooms say, how can we be more profitable? Yeah. Like, that's what people, people seem to forget that. And they think that, that, um, I don't know, certain people think, oh, no, they no, they're well intended. They would never do anything that would hurt people.

Well, they've got, those organizations have a fiduciary duty to keep those companies profitable as long as it is within the realms of the law. And then these companies get so profitable that if they don't like the law, the way it is, they can lobby the government to change the law and to one that better suits them. So, yeah, I'm not sure that Big Pharma is, you know,

is evenly plotting against psychedelics. I think there are just market forces that are against the development of psychedelics. How much is this industry growing, the psychedelic world grown in the past 10 years? It's really from, as me, somebody who's been professionally involved for 10 years and kind of been watching as things grow,

I think we're way farther ahead now than I would have thought we would have been by now. In Canada, there was the big cannabis gold rush. A lot of cannabis companies went, we're allowed to trade on the public markets in Canada. A lot of those companies were crap and nothing happened, but there was a lot of speculation. A lot of money was made playing the stock market with those. So a lot of psychedelic companies have came on the market,

especially as of two years ago. You saw a whole bunch of publicly traded companies pop up with psychedelics on their mind. I don't think I wrote a piece that's, I think the psychedelics time, the psychedelic times published on their website called why psychedelics are not the next cannabis because I think a lot of people rushed in and said,

oh, this is the next cannabis, we can all get rich off this like we did off cannabis and it's just not the same thing. Cannabis is something that, a lot of people do use every day. It is something that people use chronically so there's that market. Psychedelics, if you're doing it right, nobody's using them every day. There is something called microdosing and microdosing, you might take much more frequently, but that's a small amount of a very inexpensive substance

generally that people are micro-dosing. So a lot of companies have popped up with the aim of doing something within the psychedelic world. And I know already a handful of those companies have folded because it's not quite as easy a business model as let's just provide this addictive substance to people that want it. People might say cannabis isn't addictive, that's not my experience. I've had a tenuous relationship with cannabis my whole life. But yeah, but then there are some really cool companies and I know some people involved in some of those cool companies.

I helped co-found the Canadian Psychedelic Association. I was on the board of directors for maps in Canada. I was chair of the board there for a few years. And through that, I actually helped kick off the Psychedelic Business Association. So one of the first trade associations dedicated the Psychedelic Business Association. So one of the first trade associations dedicated to Psychedelic Business. And there's some really good people in there. I just think the business model is,

we're still in early days as far as regulation is concerned. And there's gonna need to be a lot of regulatory changes that happen before I think a lot of these businesses are viable. And a lot of these businesses are trying to take a top-down approach to, you know, whatever their business is going to be where I don't know, I just feel really blessed for where I'm at, which has really been from a bottom-up approach. I had a unique window of opportunity where I was able to legally do this in my home country. I'm now working in another country

where it's legal to work with it and I'm able to serve a whole bunch of people. And I think we will expand, but I'm happy that we're not expanding. I'm happy we're doing this kind of grassroots bottom up growth and rather than just trying to. All right, I want to get in the psychedelic business. What are we going to do?

Yeah. I didn't have to do that. You brought up microdosing. I'm interested in the microdosing topic. Can you kind of go under that? Why people are microdosing? Yeah, so microdosing is a subperceptual amount of psychedelic that you would take on a relatively frequent basis or even just one day you can microdose, but let's say it's generally about

one-tenth of a dose. So if a gram of mushrooms is a dose, then you might take 100 milligrams of mushrooms to microdose. Or if a hit of acid, which is generally about 100 micrograms of LSD, then you might just take 10 micrograms of LSD. LSD are part of me. Ibergain to microdose it. A full flood dose might be a gram of Ibergain. You would just take kind of 10 to 20 milligrams

of IBA gain to my crados. So a really low amount. You don't necessarily notice that you've taken it. If you do notice, it's just like a book was written, you can look up called a really good day, which is one woman's journey using my cradosing. And that's just what she described it. When you're my crados, you just seem to have a really good day. You're not even sure why.

Things just start to flow. It does seem to have an anti-depressant effect. For some people, it's a bit of an anti-anxiety. Although some studies are showing that microdosing and some people can cause a little bit of anxiety. Microdosing with eye-boggain, as I mentioned earlier, seems to be very good at treating Parkinson's disease. I've seen that firsthand from numerous people now. That's, I think, a really rich avenue of study. I look forward to that getting more out there because there's not a lot of good treatments

for Parkinson's available and It The way I would do it ideally is you you start with a big dose you start with what you did you start with a Flood dose of eye again or or a therapeutic session with psilocybin. And I think with the larger dose, it kind of clears out the cobwebs. And then you live a couple of months

and then you might just say, you know what, I need a little touch up. And then that's where microdosing can come in. There's different protocols like with mushrooms, you could take three days on, two days off or five days on, two days off. You wanna give your body a little bit of a break from psilocybin or it might not be as effective.

Like if you take two big mushroom journeys two days in a row, you won't really feel the mushrooms on the second day because your receptors are already flooded. And with microdosing psilocybin, there's an argument to be made that you wanna put some days break in there. Ibergains really hard to come by and there are sustainability issues with Ibergain. So you just really, if you do get your hands on some of Bogey, you need to know that it

comes from a ethical source. What, so you don't really feel like you don't, you don't have any visual, it's not near as strong. No. It might not even realize anything. Yeah. Yeah, I think if you're doing it right, you don't even notice visual, it's not near as strong. No. It might not even realize anything. Yeah, I think if you're doing it right, you don't even notice that you've taken anything except by the end of the day, you look back

and you're like, wow, that was a really good day. And then be careful because you're dealing with sacred plant medicines that have a mind of their own sometimes. I gave my father a microdose of a boga once and he went on a full-on journey. It was very unexpected and yeah that's a heck of a story but it sadly I don't think he'll ever try a psychedelic again because that microdose didn't go as planned but But I've had that with other people too, like sometimes a microdose of mushrooms lays you

out. And I think you really need to be cautious of that. If this medicine feels it's time for you to learn a lesson, you might, you know, you might need to spend a few hours laying down. So I think especially when you're first starting with microdosing, make sure you don't have too many plans that day just to see if it resonates all right with you. How long do people microdose floors? Is it like a specific period or is it like an ongoing I'm doing this starting today until I die? My advice is just to do it organically is the substance

has seemed to have an innate intelligence within themselves. So the medicine might tell you you've had enough, you know, you don't need to microdose for a little while. And then there's there's probably not much danger in doing it quite frequently The Parkinson's patients I've worked with they will microdose I began every single day and they don't notice at all that they've taken A psychedelic substance what they notice is that they've got smoother movement and their Parkinson's is better and they can smile more With with LSD and with mushrooms, there is a, it triggers a receptor that there is a theory that microdosing LSD and perhaps mushrooms too frequently could be hard on the heart. So people should investigate that. But I think as long as you're just doing it every now and then,

and I think that's how it should be, is every now and then. I'll, an amazing story from my credicing was, and again, just because of the age of the person, you know, tread with caution the age of the person, you know, tread with caution on taking this as advice, but my partner has a friend who was, her family was very much suffering because their 12 year old daughter

had massive amounts of depression, couldn't function, couldn't go to school, was really bringing down the whole family. And my, my love Brianna, she said to her friend, you know, you might want to try a microdosing mushrooms, and she's like, we will try anything right now. So, this person got a hold on of some mushrooms, and they were ground up and put into capsules for microdoses, so 100 milligram per cap. And she started putting like half of that cap

into the daughter's smoothie in the morning. And she said she was well aware that she was taking some kind of a medicine, and it dramatically changed her. She, within months, she was going to school all the time, no problem. This woman credits Brianna for saving her family and the amazing thing is that girl no longer requires

the medicine. She, for a while there, she would be like, yeah, I'm on my need my medicine today. Or, yeah, I feel like I might need my medicine today, or even the other kids were like, she needs her medicine today. But after a few months of this, she is completely healed, hasn't required microdoses for, I think it's probably more than a year at this point. Wow, yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. So, is it actually regenerating like brain cells?

More studies are needed, but a really cool study I can reference is there was a study with rats. And the rats heard a buzzer and the floor that they were standing on was electrocuted. Here the buzzer, electric shock. Here the buzzer, electric shock. Pretty soon all they needed to do was here the buzzer and they would jump like they're about to get an electric shock. So they gave, there were two groups of rats. They gave one group, the equivalent of a large dose of psilocybin,

and they gave the other group the equivalent of a microdose of psilocybin. The group that was given the large dose of psilocybin, the end of the experiment was, how many times will it take them to hear the buzzer with no electrocution so that they don't jump when they hear the buzzer with no electrocution so that they don't jump when they hear the buzzer anymore? How long does it take to condition that fear response out of them again? So with the large dose of psilocybin, it took 10 times, after 10 times the rats didn't jump anymore. With the microdose, it only took two times. Okay. So Paul Stammett's was the one,

he's a, there's a movie on Netflix called Fantastic Fungai. Paul is in acquaintance of mine. I'm pretty good friends with his partner, Pam Crisco, who's a physician that started the Canadian Psychedelic Association with me. But I heard Paul describe that study and then the theory is that maybe when you take the larger flood dose of the substance, you're dealing with these neurons that are super delicate. So it might clean everything out. It might be overall beneficial. But in

order to rebuild these very sensitive small neurons, maybe that's what the microdoses therefore, without completely bombarding the system with psilocybin, the microdose just allows those really small cells to regrow in the gentle way that they need. So I think, yeah, I think microdosing, psilocybin again. It's sad that these substances are 50 years behind on the research because all research was outlawed in the... From the next scenario. Yeah, this stuff is just fascinating to me. So Paul Stammett's, he has something called the Stammett stack that he recommends, which is to take psilocybin mushrooms, microdose those along with lion's main mushrooms, which

are also known to be very good at neuro regeneration. Lion's main are awesome to take. I love taking that. And then to add a little niacin in there there because niacin gives you that niacin flush Which means kind of that the ends of your nerves are getting activated So his theory is that the niacin kind of activates those areas then the mushrooms go in to those activated areas and help Help some regrowth. Wow to those activated areas and help some regrowth. Well, let's take a quick break.

And we'll come back. Let's talk about what you're doing, preparation to go through the journey to get the treatment, what the experience is like during the treatment, and what they can expect afterwards, and where to find you. Right right off. All right, man Hey guys, I want to tell you about Kachava my all-in-one daily super blend If your word you aren't getting all the nutrients you need or struggling to stay on top of your health then listen up

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That's k-a-c-h-a-v-a.com slash shot. There's never a good time to talk about it. It's not fun and for most people, it can seem overwhelming. I'm talking about life insurance, but here's the good news. It only takes 10 minutes and it's all online. I'm talking about fabric, life insurance, fabric is all about families. It was built by the parents, for the parents, and every parent knows how hard free time is to come by.

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Protect your family's financial future with Fabric. Apply in just 10 minutes at meatfabric.com slash Sean. at any time. by Vantus Life, Not Available New York and Montana. Price is subject to underwriting and health questions. All right Trevor, we're back. Let's talk about what the experience is like if I'm going to go through your treatment, but from your standpoint. So I would like to kind of start with intentions because that was the one thing that just kept getting hammered into me Before I got there while I was there and even even the like the follow-up stuff after I left was all you know remember your intent remember your intentions and and Come to find out I do think that was one of the most important,

probably the most important thing for me to prepare for was intentions. Yeah, I think that's, it is so important, intentions and expectations. And we work with vets of course and vets when they sponsor special forces veterans to come down, they insist upon coaching before and after as well. So there's a great coach and then team of coaches behind her that are just exceptional at getting everybody ready. So they would have worked with you on trying to figure out what your intention is and think intention is almost the direction that you're going to try and point the entire experience. Like what

are you really trying to overcome? You know you could just go into it and say you know let whatever happens happen. And that works sometimes for some people. But if you're going in, you might as well have some kind of a compass point, some kind of a North Star that you want to keep coming back to frame your experience. So if you want to, maybe your intention

is to overcome anger. If you're in the middle of a part of the journey where everything just seems chaotic, you can kind of steer back to, well, what does this have to do with anger? Or if it's to have more love for your family or more presence for your family, just through the middle, you can kind of bring it back to that. Like, what am I here for? Well, I know what I'm here for. I've spent plenty of time focusing on what I'm here for prior to this with the coaches,

with the team on the ground with us. So yeah, intention is just that. What do you intend to accomplish through the journey? Which is super important. Otherwise, you might not get what you're after. Do you think? If you had anybody come down with the, are there wrong intentions? Are there intentions that?

I think there's, I think the medicine can often be very literal. So you want to be careful in your intention setting. And one experience that I describe, and I might have described that to you while you were there, is I had one guy who came in, really relaxed former team's guy, but you know, pretty chill guy, and he came in and didn't have a lot of anxiety. He was looking forward to the journey. But then once the journey kicked in, he raised his hand. I went over to him. He's like, man, I'm super paranoid. I'm super, super paranoid right now.

I'm like, okay, well, that can happen. Just recognize you're in a safe place. We're taking good care of you here. And I'll check back in about 15 minutes. Check back and he's like, oh, I'm so anxious. My anxiety is through the roof. And I said, well, let me check with the doctor. If you'd like, we can give you an anti-anxiety.

If it's over the top, but let me check with her and I'll get back to you. So I came back 15 minutes or so later and said the doctor is willing to give you an anti-anxiety if you'd like. And he's like, yeah, maybe. And then he goes, you know, my main intent was to try and understand my wife saying, Zahidi better.

So I laughed about that loud in the room and said, well, man, do you maybe want to tell the medicine that you've got the message so you can move on from this. So that's just a perfect example of, intent that could have perhaps been, how can I have more compassion for my wife saying, anxiety, or how can I better support my wife? Instead, he got a lesson in anxiety, which I think served him in the end, and I'm glad we got that through him,

because I said, how about you tell the medicine you've gotten the message and when I checked on him 50 minutes later he was fine. He laughing about it already. But the medicine kind of force fed him some anxiety because that's what he wanted to better understand. And I've seen that with fear as well, people that say they want to better understand their fear rather than how do I overcome my fear.

I had one guy who was stuck in a fear-based situation the whole time and thought we were, he thought he was having a heart attack basically because the heart monitor beeps a couple times. I now warn everybody that no matter what we do, sometimes the heart monitor beeps, it doesn't mean you're dying. So he, yeah, he was just in a completely immeshed in believing that, you know, it was the end for him. So he got a hard, hard lesson in fear. And eventually he popped out and he cleaned some really good lessons from that. But I think, yeah, being mindful in how you set your intent, you can make things a lot easier or harder on yourself, depending.

Real quick, I just want to interject. This question just came to me. We obviously have a lot of civilians watching as well. And you do treat civilians. It's not only special operations, veterans. And a lot of civilians have asked me, they don't want to go because they don't feel that whatever they've experienced, their traumatic event. It doesn't measure up to what mine was, or what some of the other guys was. And I'd tell them all, look, that's all relative. And what do you say about that? I have a good friend and a fairly famous doctor.

He's Dr. Gabor Matte. A good friend, a fairly famous doctor. He's Dr. Gabor Mate. I highly suggest your audience check him out. He wrote a book called In the Realm of the Hungry Ghosts, which talks about his 12 years working on Vancouver's downtown east side as a physician down there. And he essentially discovered that every person to the person that he was working with down there had an incredibly traumatic childhood.

And their addiction largely grew out of them trying to self-medicate that pain from that traumatic childhood that they didn't properly know how to process. But that Dr. Mate's next book is called The Myth of Normal. And what this book touches upon, it should be released in September, I believe, but having speak into Gabur, but it touches upon is that the whole world is sick. Like none of us is growing up in a world that is not traumatic. Every aspect of life on Earth right now carries some degree of trauma with it. I won't say every aspect, of course, not every aspect.

But life in general, people are growing up in a traumatic world. So, normal is a myth, because I think normal would mean we all grow up in happy loving families with a happy loving community Happy loving nation if we have nation states in a normal, you know, so I think To answer your question more directly these substances are very good at getting people from minus 10 to 0, but they're also really good at getting people from 0 to plus 10. So I often say to people that I began so powerful it can get somebody off of heroin almost overnight. What can it do for you? Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. So you do it doesn't matter. You don't have to have you don't think so. If you feel the call, answer that call. If you don't feel the call, you don't

have to force yourself. But if you're feeling a call to experience some of the enlightening aspects of these substances, I think you should track that down. If you feel that call towards, I would gain specifically, I'd say you're hooked in what I call the Iboga vortex. Once you hear about Iboga and it interests you, you're eventually gonna do it. Yeah, that's what happened to me.

Yeah, exactly. I'm glad I did it. But managing expectations for me was another thing that I was really trying to get a grasp on. And so can you talk about managing expectations before you get there, and while you're there? Yeah, so I do what I can to prepare people for the Iboga journey in a myriad of different ways.

There's different advice that I can give that'll help people navigate the experience. Like, Iboga is like stepping on a roller coaster. When you get on that roller coaster, when it comes on, when you're going up the hill, it can be freaky. Then you have lots of ups, you have lots of downs, you have some loopty loops, you have some tunnels of terror, you might have some water features with some purging, but the only rule of roller coasters

is don't try and get off in the middle of the roller coaster. And if I ever see anybody struggling through an experience like the ones we've been talking about today, it's when they're trying to get off the roller coaster. It's like, no, I don't want this, but you know, you've already taken the red pill. You're kind of, you're in for the ride. The beautiful thing about roller coasters is they do finish.

So even if you're terrified the whole time, eventually it's going to end. But some people love roller coasters. Some people hate roller coasters. Either way, the roller coaster does finish. And you can do things to prepare so that it is more enjoyable for you. So I do all I can to help people prepare. And I also say, I'll give you a bunch of tools to hopefully help you navigate through this experience, but at the end of the day, get rid of your expectations because the expectations are going to get in the way. If you think I'm going to be one way, you're going to be so, so, sorely disappointed, especially

if you've never done it before. Even for me who's done it multiple times now, you think it's gonna be the way it was last time, it's not at all. It's still got a certain signature that's the same, but it's not at all the same. So it's great to set an intent, which is kind of like your North Star,

which is I'm gonna do all I can to discover this about myself while I'm on the roller coaster while I enjoy the process. But other than that, you kind of just, you need to let go of any expectations. Because like I say, some people get visions, some people don't. Somebody goes in expecting wild visions, they might not get them, and then they might be disappointed. When there was no need for that disappointment, if they just let go of the expectation in the first place. Interesting. Let's talk about, we're down there now. We're at the facility, we're at the house, whatever you thought was.

Yeah, so we have a big, beautiful house that we operate out of. We can bring in up to five people at a time at this current house. Like I say, we do have another house that will do detoxes out of, but currently we're bringing people in primarily for the psychospiritual protocol. We'll bring everybody in together on a Monday. Monday is, we'll do some medical tests upon arrival. We'll do, we'll have some blood drawn. Even prior to arrival, we're having people send us EKGs. So we want to take a look at an. Even prior to arrival, we're having people send us EKGs. So we want to take a look at an EKG prior to arrival. There's some other things we do to help prepare,

like making sure people go through coaching sessions. Upon arrival, some more medical tests, we do another EKG upon arrival. Are you guys still doing the sweat lodge too on the first day? So Monday they arrive, we'll do medical tests, we'll do blood work, we'll do an EKG. We've included a sweat lodge. We go to an indigenous elder and do a sweat lodge,

which is an incredible way of kicking off the week. It's a great way for team building. It's also a great way to take the first step in kind of overcoming something that seems very intense that you can't get through. Did you like the sweat lodge? I liked it until the very end. No, I did like it. I thought it was really good. I'd never done one before. I've always heard about it. And first, like I said, first I was like, all right, this is kind of weird. And then, and then that last portion,

I was like, oh man, this is definitely doing something. Yeah. I just want to get the hell out of this thing. That's right. But yeah. Yeah, it's a great, it's a great way to kick off the week. So amazing house that we work out of, amazing food. We have incredible chefs who cook for people all week long.

Monday we also do a couple of circles to heart to again start helping people prepare for the aboga. We run them through a few exercises. Tuesday, some more good food. We'll do some breath work. We've been bringing in a breath work practitioner, which is another nice thing to do prior to going into the IBAGain journey.

We bring in a massage therapist from a, we'll serve lunch around 1 pm, and then from then on they'll fast because it's best to go into I've again on an empty stomach and we'll start the I have a game process on Tuesday night We'll start with a fire circle and do a little bit of a ceremony again to really get the intent and the vehicle secure and then We'll administer the first dose of IBegane and then within about an hour

we'll have everybody move up into the treatment room. We hook them up to heart monitors. As I've said, we have a doctor and paramedics on duty all night plus me or another IBegane provider specifically. And then the IBagane journey goes through the night into the next morning. We'll do some IVs first thing in the next morning. And then from that point, you're kind of able to go to your room or into the rest of the house as you would like.

You probably won't sleep much that next day. That next day is often referred to as the gray day where you're just super tired. You've been through a lot. You don't feel the benefits yet. You're kind of like, why the hell did I just put myself through that? Yeah. I seem to remember you looking at me in a similar fashion on that day.

But then eventually you start feeling a bit better and then come kind of dinner time on that night you might be ready for a meal and then you get some sleep and then it's once you get that first night good sleep after I began that you wake up the next day and you're like actually I feel pretty good so that next day we'll do some yoga and meditation. We bring in a great yoga practitioner. And then we work with 5MEODMT on that afternoon not take that long. Maybe they need half an hour or 45 minutes per person, but then Thursday night's taco Thursday

and we'll let you go again on Friday morning. You guys just run a top notch, everything, from the medical staff, the actual house that you're staying in. You take the billions, where do they find you, how do they get in touch? Our website is NV, which stands for new valve, neurogenesis, N-E-U-R-O-G-E-N-E-S-I-S.com. So, envy neurogenesis.com. And I've gotta say that it's a very basic website. We haven't really needed to market at all.

Cool. And it'll just, it'll be linked below. Like I said, man, I'm just really happy that you came out here for the interview. And it's just an honor to be able to here for the interview and it's just an honor to be able to give you the interview and I just wish you the best of luck. Beautiful, thanks so much Sean for number one for coming down and doing the work because you're definitely making the world a better place by sharing your new self.

One of my favorite quotes is, who you are speaks so loudly. I don't hear what you're saying. And I think that's what happens to people when they go through these transformational journeys. They don't have to say anything. They become some kind of a walking billboard for the new thing that has grown out of all of that hardship and then the transformation that comes after it. So thank you for doing the work brother and thanks for having me. One last thing, if you had three people to recommend for this podcast, who would it be? Rick Doblin, the founder of Maps. He's an amazing man to talk to and a real pioneer in getting these substances more widely

available. Gabor Mate, who I mentioned, the doctor who focuses on trauma and there's a movie that you can watch on YouTube that features him called the Wisdom of Trauma, an amazing guy. And the pressure, the I don't know, I'm thinking of another kind of psychedelic OG, a man by the name of Phil Wolfson. He is a doctor that operates out of the Bay Area who is a pioneer in ketamine assisted psychotherapy. Another really interesting conversation with that guy. Perfect. Great. We'll reach out. Okay cool. Alright, cheers. It's time to get away in a new Hyundai vehicle during the Hyundai Getaway sales event at Woodhouse

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