Shawn Ryan Show - #4 Nick Kefalides - Marine Raider / MARSOC Operator

Episode Date: June 25, 2020

In this episode of The Shawn Ryan Show, Shawn sits down with former Marine grunt / MARSOC Marine Raider Nick Kefalides. Nick has an incredibly compelling story from his 4 combat tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Nick also opens up about his injuries which lead him to medical retirement from the Marine Corps and how he overcame the dreaded transition from a seasoned war fighter to a professional bass fishing guide who now dedicates time educating combat veterans how to successfully transition. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website - https://www.shawnryanshow.com Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/VigilanceElite TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnryanshow Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shawnryan762 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Go to VigilanceElite.com, click the training tab. It'll take you right to Vigilance Elite training on Patreon. Get a subscription, support the show. Thank you. Let's get on with it. He proceeds to look at me and one of my other comrades and he's like, hey, I'm going Go ahead and put the body on the hood on the hood of what? So you fucking took out number three Having that natural instinct to react and to do what needs to be done you can't train for that. You were hand selected again to come on as a fucking operator.

The car bomb was driven into one of our vehicles on the convoy and we did what we were trained to do. They were taking kids and filling their bicycle tires with explosives and they would have the kids ride their bike towards the convoy and start detonating their fucking bicycles. I got up on the top of the roof and you know started engaging you know targets and you can see the guys were running back and forth. targets and you can see the guys are running back and forth. Sure enough, they're still coming. And I just engaged, I was singing around to each guy.

They were from all different directions. We cut out murder holes in the walls. You're 19 years old and you just got your first engagement and shot your first man. Your fucking service record is amazing. I've worked with a lot of different operators from all different branches, especially when I was at CIA. If I could go back and operate with somebody that I didn't get to before, you would be fucking top of my list, dude, and I don't say that shit to very many people.

Welcome back to the Sean Ryan show. I want to kick things off and say thank you to all our patrons on Patreon who've been supporting the show behind the scenes. Because of your support we've been able to upgrade all of our equipment and you'll see the benefits of that as you watch the show. Also I want to give a big thank you to everyone who took the time to go to iTunes, hit the subscribe button and leave us a review. If you haven't done that yet, to go to iTunes, hit the subscribe button, and leave us a review. If you haven't done that yet, please go to iTunes, hit the subscribe button, leave us a review, even if it's just one word, that's what we need to get this show up in the top charts.

If you're watching this on YouTube, and you're going to want to because there's real gunfight footage of our next guest in combat in Afghanistan. Hit the subscribe button on YouTube, hit the like button, share it with all your friends, leave us a comment and with that being said, I'm ready to introduce my next guest and said, I'm ready to introduce my next guest, number 004. He's the United States Marine with four combat deployments. He spent some time in the infantry on the front lines in Iraq back in the early days. He was hand selected to become a plant owner of Marsoch, which is the special operations unit out of the United States Marine Corps and became a Marine Raider.

He shot and killed the number three high value threat in Afghanistan in his time. Guys, if you think you have what it takes to become a Marine Raider, you better fucking think again. At the end of this, there'll be a debrief, covering the entire experience. We also interviewed his wife while they were here. Everyone, this is better than entertainment.

This is the real thing. Please welcome my very good friend, Mr. Nick Kevletis. Welcome, my very good friend, Mr. Nick Kepholitas. Nick, it's an honor to have you here, man. Welcome to the show. Thanks, man. It's truly an honor to be here, to just be able to sit in this chair, knowing the guys that have sat here before me.

It's a bad motherfucker, as I've said, in that chair. Yeah, it's a privilege, truly. Well, I'm just super stoked you guys got out here. I know it's a little out of the way, but you know, the last time we saw each other was what two or three years ago, probably teaching on the fucking gun range and then we kind of split and you went to Tampa and I stayed on the fucking range for a while but anyways now you're a professional fisherman and that's fucking awesome. I'm like super stoked. So I got you a present. Oh shit. That might help you take your fishing to the next level. So if you reach over there, yeah, there it is. Oh, what's in there? No peeking. Hey, no peeking. No it not okay. I want to go to go to open it go ahead. Oh

God Did Yeah, these will come in handy. I love to snack when I'm out on the boat like it's just like feeding is continuous so So those are actually great bait for is continuous. So, uh... So those are actually great bait for bass.

Oh no shit. Yeah. And there's different colors in there so you can use them. Okay cool. Some colors work better for different seasons. Yeah, yeah. I know the red ones they like, you know, for spawning.

I really appreciate it dude. I'll try to make sure that these make it till tonight. Right on. Right on. But getting into it, I've been really looking forward to this one, because we haven't had a marine on yet. And so I'm excited about that, because my personal opinion is, I think, the Marine Corps is probably

the most effective self-sustaining unit or branch of the military. Because they're self-sustaining, I think you guys are probably the most eager to get in there and get to war. You guys are very fucking effective, extremely violent and hungry for it. And definitely the biggest libel risks out of... I have to agree with that thing.

Yeah. Oh, there's Marines, there's definitely fucking trouble. Yeah, I told people before, you know, if you haven't partied with a group of Marines before you really have an experience part It's just a whole another level band. Yeah, but um and I'm excited because You are actually you might you're one of the only guys that have ever met who actually has real ground combat time in a in an unconventional unit when you were soft

and in a conventional unit when you were a grunt and a Marsok operator. But anyways, let's start with your childhood. So where did you grow up? I grew up in South Florida, Palm Beach County area. So my mom and my dad were actually both Marines. I could actually say my mom will work on that boots. Oh shit. So mom and dad were both Marines. I can actually say my mom will work on that boots. Oh shit. Yeah. So mom and dow are both Marines. They were stationed together in Hawaii and that's where I was born

there in Kanoi Bay, Hawaii. At a young age, we moved from there shortly after my mom and my dad got out of the Marine Corps. They both didn't release me and got out. Move back to Florida, which was home for them. That was my first time as a baby. We moved from where I was born to Florida, and then I grew up there, all through grade school and high school and everything. So South Florida is what I would essentially call home.

So your parents were both Marines, but you weren't necessarily a military brat. They were out like it very young. Yeah, yeah, pretty much. But you know, anybody that's been in the Marine Corps kind of knows that that mentality and that lifestyle, it sticks with you don't really, you know, they that saying once Marine always marining, I feel like it kind of holds true because you keep that regimented lifestyle, you know, that discipline and they pass that down to me.

I mean, my childhood, man, I remember get like chores in my house consisting of like white glove inspections to make sure I dusted my bathroom correctly and shit that I had no clue was actually gonna be relevant during my time in Marine Corps because you actually get inspection, like you get inspected on how you clean things and stuff like that.

You guys have the worst inspections. Yeah, yeah, whether it's a uniform inspection or field day or, you know, field days, the term that we use to clean, you know, be like every Thursday would be field day. And there's time, I can remember, do we've had inspections in our company, GUNNY would come through and the inspections would go, we just keep failing till like three o'clock in the morning and we had to be up for PT at five. And I think there was a kind of a method to the madness, if you will, like it wasn't just to make us, you know, just to be, you know, mean to us and be like, no, you suck at cleaning. It was to see how we would perform with sleep deprivation, you know, being up all night and then having

to perform two hours later, you know, on a strenuous, you know, PT exercise or doing a rough march or a hike or something like that. So yeah. Yeah. So what does your parents do in the Marine Corps? So my dad was a combat engineer. My mom was an administrative clerk. And then my stepfather, he, uh, he's a Vietnam

air marine, uh, marine scout sniper. Uh, he did multiple tours over Vietnam and, uh, you know, saw some pretty, pretty hairy shit. So no shit. So when did, uh, when did your stepdad come into the picture? Yeah, how old was I when my stepdad came into the picture? Uh, I want to say it was like, probably 12, 11, 12 years old when he came into the picture. Okay. So I was still fairly young, you know, almost a teenager. Were you close with your biological father? Yeah, yeah, I've always been, my dad and I have always been close.

Are you close with your stepfather? Um, I mean, close in a sense like, we could go months without talking and then pick up where we left off kind of thing. Like, we're not like, you know, close is my biological father and I are, but I mean, we get along good. There were sometimes during my childhood where we didn't get along, you know, just for for, you know, random reasons, but that's just, you know, childhood and parenting, you know, in general, it's how it is. So he was a fucking scout sniper and Vietnam with multiple tours.

Yeah. Yeah. He saw some shity ads, some kills under his belt and stuff like that. And I think I kind of, you know, like a lot of teenagers, you kind of go through that phase where, you know, you don't really want to, you know, follow the rules and that shit. And he was just like, Hey, you're going to fucking live here. You're going to live by my fucking rules and him and I fucking butt it heads quite a bit. But, you know, you get past that shit, you know, as I've gotten older and I've matured him and I've gotten closer and closer. The Vietnam era is like, I'm in fact, that's, that's the whole reason I even joined the military to begin with.

Oh no shit. Yeah. Like I just, I, I feel like that, that era just got, I mean, those were some hard dudes and they did not have like, they didn't have the backing of the country like World War Two did not to take anything from World War Two because that was you know what I mean, but But coming home from Vietnam you definitely weren't getting a fucking pat on the back. Oh, no and and I and I think that Vietnam is like really where uh special operations and unconventional warfare

really started to absolutely come into play. I agree. And yeah, I mean, so would he tell you things that happened over there or he didn't really advertise stuff He wasn't a big drinker, but if he you know had a couple beers on or random occasion or whatever He'd loosen up and some things would kind of slip especially if it was like You know me and one of my stepbrothers were around it was just us and it was kind of you know that that environment We're wasn't a bunch of family members and people around He had said some things but Yeah, you know, that environment where it wasn't a bunch of family members and people around.

He had said some things, but, you know, you could tell he had been through some shit. Like, he had, it's pretty severe PTSD. I mean, we knew it. Like, I was exposed to that as a kid before I even knew what the fuck PTSD was. Yeah. You know, even when I joined the Marine Corps,

I didn't really have a true Understanding of kind of what he went through But I just remember like waking up in the middle of the night as a kid and I could like You know my my bedroom was kind of right down the hallway from our living room our family room and he had a Like one of those lazy boy recliners And I remember waking up at night, and this happened multiple times, where I could hear the rocking chair squeaking, like somebody was sitting in it. And I just thought it was really bizarre.

I'm like, you know, it's a kid you're like, oh my God, it was a ghostly house or whatever. And I remember waking up in the middle of the night and just not being able to resist going out there and see why this chair was squeaking. So I'd get up like I was going to the bathroom and he'd be sitting there, like in the dark with this 357 Magnum sitting on his lap Fuck man, and like I don't know what kind of state of mind he was in

You know what he was doing. I didn't ask. I just remember going out there seeing it and Him be like, what are you doing? And I was like, oh, I had to go to the bathroom, you know And so I didn't know at the time, I thought it was really strange, but years later, as I came to understand what PTSD was and kind of some of the things associated with having PTSD, I kind of realized, well, you know, he was just kind of having one of those moments, you know. I mean, you probably fucking saved his life

by coming out of your room. There's no telling, dude. Yeah, there's no telling. Holy shit. Yeah. Do you see like a lot of similarities between what you've gone through and like looking back what he was doing? Yeah, absolutely man. Yeah, you know, a lot of the isolation, yeah, isolation, anger, stuff like that, you're trained to act with violence, like you know what I mean? And you come back, you know, and you're put into civilization

and you're expected to act as a normal person. I don't forget everything. Yeah, yeah. And so I can surely relate to seeing how he had reacted at certain times in the way he was. And it surely does relate to the way I've kind of dealt with it. So growing up, did those stories, is that what inspired you to become a marine yourself or walk us through that?

Not really, because I mean, well, in a sense, yeah, like he did tell me a lot of cool stories about like the Marine Corps and, you know, like, you know, some of the experiences he got to, you know, got to enjoy. My dad did the same thing, you know, they. At the time, they wanted me to join the Marine Corps. They knew that it was gonna be a good thing. It would set me straight, it would set me up. Even if I did one elicment, they knew that the Marine Corps was gonna be a good thing.

So they had always kind of pushed, hey, you're gonna join the Marines, are you gonna, my dad just kind of made, he just kind of was like, you know, well, the Marine Corps, you know, my dad just kind of made like, he just kind of was like, you know, well, the Marine Corps, you know, set you up, you know, you get free college and you teach a discipline and, you know, you'll be regimented, you'll meet some really good people. But I don't know, man, it was in the back of my mind, I kind of always knew that I was going to join. What age would you say like it became like very apparent like well this is where I'm going.

Honestly man 9-11. 9-11? Yeah like I always like even as a kid growing up like I watched you know like full metal jacket and you know different war movies and stuff because I found that very intriguing and as a kid I was always like a little shit I was always getting into fights and people up and stupid shit, you know. So I was always, I just love that adrenaline, you know, and I wanted to serve my country.

I wanted to, you know, protect the people and that's essentially what, you know, you were trained to do and how old were you when the towers went down? I was, I wanna say I was 16 years old. I was sitting in math class. And you know, it's kind of vague to me and how it happened, but I just remember the phone ringing in the classroom

my teacher's phone's ringing and he answers the phone. It was like, as if he never stopped, but he stopped like as if it was an emergency. And next you know, he hangs up and he had a TV in his classroom, a lot of us growing up, you remember you had like some days you would watch movies or documentaries or history or something like that. It a TV in his classroom and he rolls a TV out and he plugs

it in and he turns on the TV and we just were watching, you know, the towers had just fell, you know, like chaos and soot and you know, we're all kind like we're kids man we're looking at each other and we're like the fuck's going on like what just happened slowly but surely like you know this picture is being painted as to what just happened you know to our country you know and I had some time to kind of really you know ponder the whole thing that was going on and that was kind of and that was kind of the That was kind of the moment man. That was the moment for me. I knew right then and there I was like I'm fucking going No shit, so like as it's happening and like oh dude, I was time. That's when yeah This is I'm fucking I was so fucking enraged dude like I was so enraged

I just wanted to get on the fight, you I knew that I knew who was responsible for that attack on our own soil and I just wanted I was off for blood damn that's pretty heavy for a 16-year-old so when did you wind up when did you actually enlist in the Marine Corps well it's kind of interesting I didn't list all 18 but I had moved out of the house at the age of 16. So yeah, I was living on my own at the age of 16. All on your own. Yeah, like I literally was in high school

and I had a fucking apartment and a job. Damn. Yeah. So from that age of like 16 to 18, there was a lot of fucking off in between there. Boozer. Oh, dude. Like not really booze, but just like adrenaline junky.

Like just, I used to street race a lot. I had a couple of the Fox body style Mustangs and I was in the muscle cars. I was in the street racing. I was in the going fast. And I'm telling you, if I hadn't joined the Marine Corps, I would have ended up either dead or in jail. Like I'm convinced that I would have ended up either dead or in jail, I'd have not joined the Marine Corps.

Damn. Yeah, I can relate to that. I could definitely relate to that. But so you joined at 18. At 18, yep. At 18, I was talking to my recruiter. You know, a really good dude, Jason Batson. And him and I actually became pretty good friends. Like, we hung out quite a bit. Like, I don't know, he took a liking to me and he wasn't one of those recruiters. I was just like, hey, you should do this.

And it was just worried about hitting his quota. He really did give me some tips and pointers to kind of get me point in the right direction, help set me up for success. Once I did graduate bootcamp and all that stuff. But yeah, 18 happened. I remember at the time that I was supposed to go, there was a huge hurricane

growing up in Florida. It's a huge hurricane every summer, but there was a huge hurricane coming. And I was kind of torn between, okay, do I stay and like, make sure my family's going to be okay or do I go? And you know, I don't know what's going to happen. My dad was like, you need to go. Just go. Like, don't worry about anything at home. This is your time, go. Which, sorry, let me interject here. I'm just curious. Which real dad, stepdad, which one was kinda like

dating in that direction? My real dad. Yeah, real dad. My real dad, yeah. Your stepdad was he like, he did in there or there or no not really You know my dad was probably the most impactful individual in my life

so You know when when he you know, he was a father, but he's also a mentor and you know, he yet my dad, you know, he, he was probably one of the biggest, you know, models in my life in terms of being a mentor and a father, you know, and he, and what he thought meant a lot to me, you know, I was very critical of myself and everything that he would say and do, like I would try to learn from him because he's just full of knowledge.

And he just, he told me he's's like you need to not worry about what's going on here if this is what you want to do you need to go don't sit back don't just go that was shit yeah no and knowing like knowing that you wanted to go to combat I don't think it was really a reality for him at that point because this was like, I mean, it was, it was still early on. Yeah. And I just don't think it really registered for him. Yeah.

Until I graduated boot camp, got assigned to my unit, you know, went through the school of infantry, assigned to my unit, and started a workup to deploy, you know, went through the school of infantry, assigned to my unit, and started a workup to deploy, you know, we started training right off the bat. So you went, hold on, let's backtrack just a second. So you went in Marine Corps, you go to, like, what was your contract? Basically, I signed up to be a ground pounder, to be an 0311 infantry rifleman. What's that pipeline look like? Honestly, man, the pipeline is short. You go to eight-week course school of infantry

and they teach you just basic infantry skill sets. Different weapons systems, different tactics, patrolling, and arms signals, radio communication, it's just basic stuff that can be built upon. Once you get to your unit, the follow on training continues to a little bit more advanced, a little bit more fine tuned, if you will. So, you know, one thing that like really,

that I wanna say about the Marine Corps is, or I want to ask actually, is a Marine like Grunt Unit is extremely fucking effective at what they do. And historically, not just modern day warfare starting from 9-11 in the Middle East and to the invasion of illusion shit, but you know Vietnam Somalia They're more hungry than any other fucking branch than any other unit. It's a very young demographic and What is it about that like that's different than the other branches? I guess it's kind of what I'm asking is at what point or what do they do in that training that motivates the Marines so much more than the other units. I mean, every single fucking Marine that I meet is, I mean, they are fucking hungry. And I can't say that for every unit in the other branches.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with that. It's funny you mention that because we, you know, I respect all branches of military. I don't give a shit whether you were a cook or whether you were a gunner and a turret. Like you were contributing to the mission in some aspect. You've got my respect, but it took me time to grow to that, have that mentality. Uh, I used to be like, you know, fuck that. If you're not an infantry, you're just a pug, a pug being the acronym we use for personnel other than Grunt. Um, but we used to laugh and be like, you know, people that had never done time in the military before would ask me like, what's the

biggest difference like in the army and the Marine Corps? And by no means by bashing the army, but I used to be like, all right, so think of like meat eaters and leaf eaters. You got the taste. We're carnivores, like, and I don't know, man, it just, I think it starts from the day you arrive at boot camp and you step on those yellow footprints. They literally break you the fuck down mentally, physically, psychologically, to nothing.

I'm sitting there watching grown fucking men cry like babies to go home. Guys claiming that all of a sudden now their religion doesn't allow them to be involved in the training that we're required to do. Basically, it's like a mentaudit that they ingrain into you. Just the way that they train you and then they build you back up to be what they want you to be. I think it's just like by the time you graduate boot camp, especially in a wartime, you're hearing and seeing about all this shit that's going down and you just got these guys that just got done training.

Their entire life for three fucking months consisted of making it so that they can go, it's like knowing that they're gonna go to combat. Yeah. I don't know, man, I really think it's a lot of tradition, the way from boot camp, as regimented it is, the way that drill instructors are. I mean, I'm gonna say, for me, boot camp from a physical aspect was not a challenge. I, you know, I was prepared.

I made sure that I prepared for boot camp. Physically, I was there. What I wasn't ready for was the psychological aspect. And that's where they really kind of build you up. And remember, the time you graduate boot camp, you're just your machine, you're thirsty for blood, you know, and they've trained you to be this machine. Yeah, I mean, it's fucking effective. And another thing that I find really common amongst Marines is, I mean, you guys are fucking tight. And you take care of your own and a lot of other units, especially in soft units, there can be, we can be a little dramatic at times. But I mean, it functions and, you know, and we're very effective, but I can't say that about, we can flip the switch and turn it on, you know what I mean?

And we can also turn it off. And that's when usually, you know, board soft guys, a lot of fucking drama, minds up happening sometimes. And, but I don't really see that in the Marine Corps. And one thing I noticed when I was going through training, both in the SEAL teams and at CIA was a Lot of the other branches like guys like they finished their shit and they're fucking gone and At a very young age where I went through buds. I think I think when I got I was about 19 and

The guys that were switching over from the marine grant units were always the last ones out. They were always the ones that were helping guys with their swim times. They were helping guys with their rifles, how to clean them, how to take them apart. It was always the Marines or maybe Corbin who served with the Marine. They were in touch, too, yeah. They just, they had that shit down pat every fucking one of them that I met and they were all solid dudes. In fact, the guy that won an honor man in my,

in my bud's class was a former force recon guy. But I just helped me understand like what what happens because it's it really is every one of them that I've met is like that. I think there is, you know, they really put a lot of emphasis on, I'll give you an example, you know, if you're on a platoon run or something You're only as fast as your slowest man, right? So everybody knows like I don't give a fuck if you can run three miles and 17 minutes This guy here can only run it in 22 minutes or 23 minutes

We need up his runtime because as because as a unit, you know, we're only as fast as that guy. And I think that crosses over into every aspect whether it has to do with, you know, training or whether you're in combat or you're in schools and you're learning, just gaining more knowledge. I think we've just always had that, you know, that mentality kind of ingrained in us to help the guys within you because it's not about you collectively. You're a unit and the success of that unit doesn't just rely on one or two people. It relies on everybody within that squad or that tune.

But it's also tough to say. I mean, it's part of the process. You know, just from the start. Start endpointing. Yeah, I mean, also tough to say. I mean, it's part of the process, you know, just from the start point. Yeah, I mean, they break you down and just everything, all the training, which, I mean, it's been so long for me. I can't even recall half the shit we did in boot camp. But,

So you join at 18, get through boot camp, you go to the infantry school, and then you get to what unit? I get assigned to second battalion second Marines. And what year is this? This is 2000. This is the end of 2004. I want to say it was like probably December, actually, it was probably December time frame

of 2004, maybe January of 2005. I get assigned to second time, second Marines. Okay. And that's a station there in Camp Le Jun, North Carolina. Okay. How much time does it take to show up to boot camp, get through that, go to infantry school, now you're at the unit, how much time are we talking, six months a year? Five months, you got three months from Marine Corps boot camp, and then the school of infantry

is eight weeks, and it had another two months. You're looking at five months. Sometimes when you graduate boot camp, you might get a week of leave between the time you graduate boot camp, the time you go to school, or you might get a week of leave between the time you graduate bootcamp and time you go to school, or you might get a month, it just really depends on Tommy Year holidays, you know, stuff like that. No shit. So in five months you go from fucking dumbass high school kid who's racing cars to a fucking war fighter within five months. Yeah. Change mind said everything's different. Yeah. I wouldn't say you know, a, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say that you're a, you know,

full fledged like ready to go warfighter, but I mean, you've got, you've got some training under your belt, you know, you've got that mentality and grain in your head. At that point, you know that like, it's happening. I mean, you're definitely a warfighter, whether you like it or not, you know that like, it's happening. I mean, you're definitely a war fighter, whether you like it or not. You know what I mean? Because you're fucking going. Yeah.

And so how long were you with that unit until you got your first deployment order? It's like six months. That's it. Yeah, like when I got to the unit, they had already, they were pretty much had already started a workup, you know, workup for the deployment can last anywhere from, you know, five months to nine months, depending on how much time you have, when I got there, they were

already in the middle of a workup. So I got there and jumped right into training. I mean, we were going to places like, you know, going out to California and doing training there on the June and stuff like that. Like we were, we were getting ready, you know, and we were shortly after that when we got our data as to when we were leaving. How long did you have before you were leaving? There was about a time out for training. Further for a deployment. Between the time I got to my unit and the time. Yeah, it was probably about six months. So, okay, so we're looking at a year

from enlistment to deployment. Pretty much, last time a year. No shit. Yeah. Where, where were you going? We were going to Iraq, we were going to a place called Al-Karma, Iraq, which is just North of Fallujah. Oh fuck yeah anybody that's been deployed Iraq probably knows about the city of Karma or the town of the village of Karma. The bad fucking place man. Yeah

probably one of the fucking worst places I've been in my life. Had they already had the Marine Corps already invaded Fallujah at that point? Yeah it was all three I believe. Yeah yeah the initial invasion had already taken place, but there was just a lot of residual, just bullshit, still going down. So you're like fucking what? 19 years old at this time. Yeah.

What, how did they tell you, like, where are you going? Do they, do they, I mean, I know how they do it in the sealed teams, you kind of know like the entire fucking work. Yeah, it's different because it's like, you know, they really utilize the chain of command and in the line company or the infantry units. So somebody in my position, you know, I didn't know shit. I just did what I was told I didn't know shit. I just did what I was told. And that was it. I followed orders. The way they let us know, I guess, you know, as it got closer to deployment day, they called

in the tune sergeants and the squad leaders. And they sat all these guys down. Let them know where we were going, roughly about how long we were going to be gone. And they were in an order to, you know, how you need to disseminate this information to your guys with an off to say a laundry list of shit that needs to be done prior to deployment, you know, next to Ken and, you know, you know, living wills and shit like that. Shit that you normally like, you don't really think about, but that's the shit you really got to take care of before you leave. Yeah, I mean, did any of that shit even seem real at the time?

Did it hit you? What you were getting ready to go do at all? No, no. I don't think it hit me until I stepped off the bus and quay. Oh, yeah. We were in Kuwait and stepped off the bus and that fucking door opened, dude. And it was like, think of like when you open

an oven door, how that fucking dry heat just fucking hits you. Yeah. That sort of felt like when the door to that bus opened, we got off and we looked around and we're like, it gonna be a long fucking summer. Oh fucking hold on a world. Yeah. Yeah What did they did you have any fucking clue how dangerous how bad it was where you were going? Did they give you a briefing or were they just I mean This is where we're going get your shit ready. This is when we leave. Dude, honestly, man, we got there. I can't remember the unit that we did left seat, right seat with, but

they went out with us for a few days, you know, don some convoys and stuff, and they were like, yeah, and we've gotten like two engagements in the last six months. It's been really quiet, you know, not really much to rapport. You know, they gave us what info they had, but it was really not that kinetic of an environment at that time. No shit. Yeah. And then if you fast forward to a month or two into our deployment, we were getting engagements every fucking day, getting blown up by IDs Rocket it. I mean you name it dude. It was happening and there's a reason that that that took place Yeah, well Let's take a quick commercial break and We'll pick up right where we left off on your first combat deployment

Sometimes these episodes can be pretty long and they will always keep you on the edge of your seat. Rather than sit here and watch it alone, why don't you head over to VigilanceElite.com buy yourself some company and get some vigilance league gummy bears. Not bad. Yeah. All right. We're back from the break. And we left off your on your first combat deployment with the infantry unit. You guys did a turnover and they told you that everything's been pretty cool and calm and collected in the city and pretty inactive. So let's go from there. Yeah, so they basically tell us, hey, you know, we were just trying to gain the

atmosphere access to what's going on and they told us, you know, hey, it's been unadventful. You know, and they showed us, you know, different different areas and you know, in our area of operation our area of operation points of interest and things like that But you know for the most part when they were like alright you guys got it You know they were like you guys had nothing really to worry about everything's good You know just you know mind your piece and cues keep your eyes peeled kind of thing It wasn't wasn't even a week into the deployment where You know we got our first engagement, it just happened like that.

At the time, Al-Qaeda was in the area. That's kind of who we were fighting at the time was Al-Qaeda. They're always going to test the waters. They know when new units are coming in. They're going to test the waters, they're going to see what they're dealing with here. So long story short, I think we're convoying from 1OP to back to Camp Folluzha at the time or something like that. I think we were like transporting, that's what it was. It was our company commander needed to go from one of our observation posts back to Camp Folluzha for a big meeting with the general. And we were the ones that were going to be transporting him in providing security. So,

you know, we mounted up, we're going on this convoy. And we're approaching, you know, we're going down MSR Chicago, which is like the main route, you know, to get back to Camp Fallujah. And there was an abandoned building, you know, kind of off to our right flank. And Guy basically just jumped out of, you know, one of the doorways of the abandoned building and just starts, you know, kind of off to our right flank and Guy basically just jumped out of you know, one of the doorways of the abandoned building and just starts, you know, lighting up the convoy with an AK and you know, we smoked his eyes. It was just like, you know, he's done stop the convoy. CEO decides he wants to get out and check out the situation.

So we clear the compound, you know, the abandoned house where that guy was in, make sure the guys, you know, dead and all that stuff. And he proceeds to look at me and one of my other comrades and he's like, Hey, I'm glad to put the body on the hood. On the hood of what? On the hood of the number one Vic, which was his vehicle. He put a dead body on the hood of the lead vehicle. He, I was just a shock as you are, man. I was like, sir, and he's like, do what I fucking said, put that dude on the

fucking hood of my vehicle. And so at that time, you know, we were rolling around and up armored humvees and We had we would do random vehicle checkpoints like if we were in an area Would we want to start searching people? We would have 50 yards of or 50 feet of a constantine wire You know compressed you know essentially as razor wire barbed wire whatever you want to call it We compress it, you know, call it up, put it on the hood of the humvee and strap it down. So this way when we need it, we just cut the straps, pull it out, and we now, we got our vehicle checkpoint.

And so we put this dude on the hood, you know, this dead guy is bleeding all over the place. He's all kind of tangled up in the, in the C wire. Hold on, let's backtrack here. So how many fucking cars are in, uh, in infantry? At this point, I think we had four, maybe five vehicles, typically when we rolled around as a platoon and that deployment, it was four humvees, but I think we had an extra one because it was the headquarters vehicle, which was you know, the CEO and then his personal radio guy and all that. Okay, I was expecting like 20, 30 cars. No, this was a small convoy. That's how we rolled around is pretty small. And then this guy was just it was just

a loner just just to do that. I don't know what like honestly, man, I don't know what the fuck was going through his head. Like you're one dude and you got a convoy of fucking four or five humbies, but it didn't end well for how close was he to the convoy? Man, he was close, dude. He was probably let him mean, he's less than 100 yards. Man, if I had to guess, let's say probably about 70, 70 80 yards. Okay. That's far. So I'm guessing it was like usually when that happens, everybody wants to pull the

fucking trigger. Everybody pulled the trigger. Okay. We had just gotten into country. It hadn't been a week. And you've got young PFCs and Lance Corporals who have had all this training for the past year. And finally have the opportunity to utilize it. So yeah, everybody pretty much, you know, it all happened at once. I mean, it wasn't last long, but nonetheless, I was a little bit overkill.

So what your 19 years old and you just got in your first engagement and shot your first man and then threw him on the hood of the lead vehicle. Yeah, we had boners up until we were told to put him on the vehicle. That's where you draw the line, huh? Well, you're like, wait, what? Guys, this was a lot of fun, but shit's getting a little weird. Yeah. And from that day on, I'll find you, this is a seven-month deployment. This is not even a week into it.

In that point on, that entire deployment, we were engaged in every single day. Every day? Every day. Every day? Every day. If it wasn't a firefight, it was being rocketed or RPG or IDs. It was always something, mortars, incoming mortars. Like, it definitely started to pot, if you will. How long is a deployment with the inventory. Seven months. Seven months. Seven months.

Seven times 30. What's that? 210, that's 210 engagements at a minimum. At a minimum, dude. I mean, sometimes there's times where, yeah, we would convoy. I remember there was one day where we, my vehicle, how the fuck I have all my fingers and toes to this day,

I don't know because I remember a specific day, my vehicle, I don't know how, but by chance my vehicle got struck by an ID three times in one day. Damn, three times in one day. Yep. What the fuck kind of vehicle were you riding around in? Well, there's a lot of different variables that go into play with, you know, IEDs. Sometimes they bury them too far.

Tournament's not on, you know, the, you know, detonation devices. There's a lag in it. It's not, you know, as accurate as they're hoping for it to be. So we just lucked out, man. Wow. I mean, there was guys that definitely took Shrapnel and got injuries and stuff, and those were some of the smaller IDs, I guess, that I've encountered throughout my time over there. But I remember that, man, it was like, it was kind of a running joke, you know, as my career progressed. You know, and I got to different units, it was kind of like the running joke, like, yeah,

I don't want to be in his vehicle. I was doing for getting blown the fuck up. Man, when we were running vehicles overseas, especially in Iraq, that was the one thing that fucking scared the shit out of me. And I think that was because you have no control. Yeah, that's right. You have no control. And, that's right. You have no control.

And people ask me all the time, hey, what do you think was worse? Iraq or Afghanistan? And I'm like, depends on what we're talking about. But in terms of people getting wounded or killed, I felt like Iraq because it was just they didn't really have much of a desire to fight you. Now granted they would, they would initiate an ambush by detonating an ID and then follow up with some pop shots and a couple rounds and then they'd be gone. And Afghanistan, I mean, you know, just as well as I do, those feckers will sit up there

and fucking mandresses and flip-flops and fight you in the mountains for days on time. You'll be in a tick for hours. Yeah, they were dedicated. But the IEDs are really like, that was for me too, like you roll through a marketplace and all of a sudden you see it's just a straight ghost town. Yeah. Like you know, shit's about to go down. And at a time we're riding an up armor humbies, like the high back humbies, which were, you know, their armor about that thick. Now granted it's supposed to be titanium armor that comes up on the back of the humvee. You're sitting essentially in a pickup truck with armored

sides on it. But the armor only came up to about yay, like about this high. So your head's still kind of sticking out. Oh shit. So you roll in, you hear them, you know, on the mosque. On the microphone of the mosque, they're praying. Town is just complete ghost town. You know shit's about to go down and you're just like.

Do you have translators? Yeah, we had some translators at the time. So we're the mosques at that time, we're the mosques putting out, hey, the Americans are running a convoy, come kill them, because they were doing that all over uh, all over every AO. As far as I know, especially in that time frame. And that's when the EFPs, I believe four was one EFPs man and appearance which were the worst fucking idea yeah Never met that probably still to this day, but well Nick I did a lot of research on you

Before he got here as much as I could just kind of hard to research it because you don't post any of this shit anymore but I as much as I could, it's kind of hard to research it because you don't post any of this shit anymore, but. I talked to a guy who was there with you and he told me a story that you guys were held up in a building and look at you, you don't even know what the fuck I'm like, yeah, what's your building? But it's funny, because there's a lot of shit

that I don't remember. And like, you know, my time overseas stuff that I, but I'll get around guys that I've served with or buddies of mine. And when they start talking like some of them's memories a lot better than mine. You know, maybe it's part and part to do with my TVI, but they'll start talking and shit starts coming back to me. I'm like like holy fuck I remember that.

Well let me refresh your memory. So we're taking fire from another building and you were in one of those bombed out fucking half built Iraqi houses and there was a small group of guys that was going to go to the house that you guys were getting hit from and kill those fuckers. They needed to cover fire. Apparently the Marines that were on the roof at swatting the Marines off the fucking side of the gun, right? And man the machine gun, and then they went over and killed those

fuckers. So your buddy Dan, Instagram handles 03 OG, Reini Bells, yeah, yeah, Dan and I go way back, man. Well, I got him on the phone here. Oh, no shit. Oh, you said, got him on the phone, dude. Hey, Dan, how's it going, man? Yeah, thanks for coming on on so I just gave a brief description of the story that we discussed on the phone a couple weeks ago and I got Nick sitting here so I'd like to hear the story from your angle and from Nick's angle. So, and you have to sort the, that thing was created today. We had to go toward the end of our deployment and we wanted to get out of, uh, at a harm's way, we had an operating and a very genetic environment for the last, you know, seven months and, honestly, every, uh,

and one of the terms is one to make it home in one piece at this point. And we're in between patrols and we're on here for a couple hours. And whoever was watching us, whatever group, the chair group was in that AO and already gotten our times down. So when we were transitioning from one squad to the next, and so that's when they ended does when we're doing that. And you know, there's rounds flying through this old building. I had this thing remember, you know, just as a testament to the kind of person that he is,

he was downstairs and there was a composition on the roof. And people, the guy that was on security, up on the roof, people the guy was on security on the roof, I won't try any names out there, but He's scrambling trying to get down the stairs get away from the gunfire and mix you know run and full speed ahead Up the stairs and he's he told the guy the way and Get from the 240 he starts laying laying down, plus the fire.

So that way, my squad and moving together. We asked squad to get out there and take the enemy and take the kicks. And do it, and he's be done. So yeah, that was pretty crazy. That's just a perfect person to get it. Yeah, definitely one help. I'll just back in the play. That was pretty crazy, that's just a perfect person. That kid is, you know, he definitely won't help him. I'll just back in the play.

So were you guys side by side when the initial engagement happened? You and Nick? Yeah, we might have been in that night. The rooms are so small and we're probably within the feet of each other, yeah? Same room. Oh, shit. So you fucking run to the roof and Give them cover fire and

Damn was able to go and yeah, they did it. We had a probably half a squad do a movement to contact You know when we took started taking fire and I was just you know Trying to use up as many rounds as possible that we had up there How many guys? Dan if you don't mind me asking how many guys We're engaging you All in the same building building? They were in a vehicle too. They had gone out and they were, that's what they do. They do that control. It runs on the six-year-old up multiple positions and jumped back in their cars. Their vehicles, you got off before, you know, or they were, they were, they

were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were out long. So it's, it's really hard to get a grip on that type, but you know, they, they know what they were doing. Yeah. And you and how many guys went to go kill five or six dudes? I mean we had a squad. I mean our squad were like we were so under man Then we probably at one point we have like There's like two fire teams. Nice and which was a squad like so eight guys night guys So on top. Yeah, we were Yeah sounds like it yeah, Dan. I think that I think it's safe to say that that deployment probably took here years off of our life

I think it's safe to say that deployment probably took years off of our life. Did you get that, Dan? Yeah. I was saying it's safe to say that that deployment probably took a few years off of our lives. Yeah, definitely. That's a deployment word for one night and that was for Dad for sure. Yeah. Nick, you showed me a video right before we came up here of your first deployment and you guys got hit by...

I was all kind of had an attack on the Iraqi police station You guys found that video on YouTube the video actually was yeah It got released on YouTube somehow like I know that our unit compensated the camera It essentially these guys attacked Iraqi police station that was I've been abandoned by the Iraqi police because shit got So bad and that, and that A.O. So we basically took it over and made it into observation post. Well, we get the, all of a sudden we get the call, Q.R.F. Q.R.F. The police stations get attacked. So we roll up there and you can see the guys playing his day. There's probably half a dozen dudes

there, you know, PKM's, RPK's, RPG's, you know, just laying it down to the police station and we roll up, you know, flank them and just, you know, do our thing. And I guess the video got you confiscated. Now at what point the video went from whoever's hands to making it on YouTube, it made it to be pretty famous, but you know, pretty infamous attack on the Iraqi police station, now karma, so it's pretty crazy.

If we can dig that video up, I'm calling on you. All right, Dan's got it. Dan, you have that video? Yeah, the police station is out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I got that one. Yeah. He's got more pictures and videos Walk us through that if you don't mind I remember my squad was actually being punished. We were, I forget what happened to some of our squad

that you said and did something. I forget what it was, but we were from Canada actually. Oh, shit. We thought, I remember hearing what that thought was just firecrackers. This is a firework. Yes, I think that's strange. And then, a few people in it, four distance, running across alleyways,

and the gather, that's also strange, so that's probably not going to, that's probably something going on in. Then all of a sudden, they start getting ready to traffic that service and attack, come on, and you know, we'll see how many put up at a rescue police station at the time, and they were already come time and they were already contacted. They were sitting there, you know, along the bridge, what's going to be soon? Small, the captain and police

force there, police force left. Literally, they knew something was happening and they found, so it's just those guys there. And, yeah, it was a well thought out command attack they would be trying to upload one of the Texas key barriers with a like a central card It was it was Next squad I believe it was one of the squad to that react to that makes your team Yeah, they

Yeah, I could do that. Make sure to. Yeah. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can.

They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can.

They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. They can. had a couple screws loose but it really benefited us for that deployment I could tell you calling in Dan and you guys got anything to say to each other before I I'm the call here. Yeah, hey bro, I really appreciate it.

It was it was definitely a surprise and I want you to know I love you man. Yeah, I'm glad the up and down man, glad to see a little bit about our experience with together. Yeah, I love you too man, I appreciate it. And hopefully we'll plan a Christmas tree Christmas tree. And I don't know if any of the listeners out here listening. I'm going to put that plug in for you.

You know, Nick runs his business. We'll plan on getting out there too and getting out in the water. So if you guys listen and want to find a good person there, you know, taking off this new guarantee, and he gets some good ones. And I'll hit him up. Thanks, dude. I don't know. Well, hey, Dan Hit them up. Thanks, dude. Hold on.

Well, hey, Dan. I really appreciate it, man. And I'll be in touch soon. All right. Sounds good. Take care. Tell them how the great day is. All right, man.

It's too late. All right, later. How'd that feel? It's crazy, man. That guy, like, Dan and I, I mean, we did everything together dude. We were inseparable. Just good dude, everything ever since we were in the same company and boot camp,

we're in the same tune, all through school of inventory, we're in the same tune, all through second time, second Marines, that whole deployment. We got some good memories, man, some really good memories, you know, that time, you know, got some great memories and some not-so-great memories, you know, with the things that we experienced, but that's pretty cool, man. I was surprised that you had them on the hook there.

Yeah, I talked to them a couple of weeks ago and he told me that story and I was like, holy shit, I mean, you came here and I think you were a little intimidated because of some of the guys that sat in that seat, but I mean, just that one story that he told me out of the, you know, I mean, fuck that, that deployment alone, what would you say? You had 2, 210 engagements at a minimum. And you ain't to fucking turn off a machine gun and put yourself in harm's way to so that your buddies could go and fucking kill the insurgents that were trying to kill you. I mean, that's, people don't do that shit. So, you know, that's pretty fucking heroic.

Yeah, I mean, at the time I didn't feel it was heroic, I still don't, I mean, I feel like, I mean, it's just one of those things, man, it's like instinct kicks in. And that's what I've said for the longest time, like, guys that work in the soft community that do, like, do what you did and do it, you know, what I did and stuff. Like, that can't be taught. You know, having that natural instinct to react and to do what

needs to be done, you can't train for that. Like, it's just, you're either going to do it or you're not. You're either going to be the guy taking cover or you're either gonna do it or you're not you're either gonna be the guy taking cover Or you're gonna be the guy that's suppressive our To make sure that your guys, you know your squad your platoon your team whatever it may be You know doesn't get waxed, so yeah Well for those of you listening who want to know who Dan is you can check them out on Instagram at who Dan is, you can check him out on Instagram at 03-o-g and there's some interesting stuff out there. Yeah. But, so moving forward in that deployment, I was really pumped about that phone call and I wanted to get him on here and reconnect you guys because that's probably been a minute. But,

is there anything else that was a major event that happened on that first deployment? There's so much stuff that happened, man, but it all just kind of runs together. I learned a lot. That was the most important thing. That deployment for me really helps set me up for the soft world. It gave me an appreciation that most guys that don't get to experience that lifestyle or being part of an infantry unit come to us.

So, you know, I'm grateful for that. That's my roots, that's where I came from. You know, I didn't start out, you know, as a soft team guy started out as a ground pounders and infantry guy. I get dudes that hit me up all the time and like whether it's young guys that are getting ready to go into the military or guys that have done a few years in the military as infantry who are getting ready to transition, they're going to go to take assessment selection,

you know, to go to Marsock or whatever and they'll hit me up and they'll say, hey, do you have any recommendations, you know, and I try to tell, I tried to give them tips and pointers and stuff, but the biggest thing is you could never be too prepared. Yeah, go prepared. You know, so let's move forward then. So then at some point you decided, you wanted to move into Marsok and become a raider. So let's revisit that experience. Yeah, so well, at the time, marine raider wasn't even a thing. Now, granted, the marine raiders goes, dates back to World War II, right? The Marine Corps has been conducting special operations for as long as they've been

you know, around. Now it wasn't until 2006 where we were taking another wing of Socom and became what is now known as Marsok, the Marine Special Operations Command, or the Marine Raiders. At the time, it was still just the old force reconnaissance companies, and it was a totally different format on how these companies were laid out in terms of the teams and all that. I didn't know really anything about it. I just know that my company commander pulled a select few from the company. I don't remember how many guys it was, but it was probably 20, 30 dudes from the company. And he said, hey, there's a reason you're here. I have, you know, basically requested

that you individuals come here. And it's because I want to provide you with an opportunity that's out there. And that is to go and be a part of this Marsock unit as security platoon. And at the time, we're, you know, we're young, dude. We just got back from our first deployment and we're looking around each other going, what's Marsock? You know, at the time, we're young, dude. We just got back from our first deployment and we're looking around each other going, what's Marsoc? You know, at the time, we were already counting down the days to when our first term was up because life sucks so bad on that first deployment and just with that infantry unit,

like you were just looked at as another number. So it's like, we had already made our minds up that we're getting out. But this opportunity had been presented to us, hey you can take an Indock and try out to go and if you make it there's good things to come. So at that point really I have shit to lose. I just knew that life was miserable where I was at and I wanted to change. I wanted an opportunity to kind of better myself. And so I did it, took the, you know, the little screening and endoc that they had

ended up making it and went over to Marsoch as part of the trailer slash security platoon. And essentially what our job was to do is basically provide security for the DASL platoon, which is basically short acronym. DASL are being direct action special reconnaissance. We would provide security for those guys when they're going into due raids or do a head on a house or something. We would be the ones main in the heavy guns, the machine guns, you know, with our experience. So you guys would like a blocking force essentially, essentially, essentially, yeah,

squatters, making sure there were those squatters, making sure there are any reinforcements that came in while our teams were boots on the ground and, you know, we're inside, you know, whatever compound or house that we were hidden, you know, just making sure that they could go in there and do what they needed to do without worrying about the Itercorden. Okay. So real quick for the audience, a squatter, get your mind out of the gutter. But a squatter is basically when a unit hits a house or a compound or whatever it may be, the people that are bad that are in that compound that run and try to get away from destiny, a blocking force is there to basically eliminate them, so

that they don't get away and fuck another unit up. So we call that squirted patrol or a blocking force. So you're a blocking force for marine special operations and so basically you were hand selected. Yeah, essentially, you know, when I got there, I mean, do we have the, that was the longest workup prior to deployment I have ever done. I mean, we shot, I can't tell you how many thousands

of rounds of ammo, different shooting packages, a training, different training packages and stuff. It was all, you know, really great training. They ended up making me an element leader, you know, during that time. So I had, you know, had a fire team under me that are you know that we deployed together and all that did you work with the Spear stops unit as an infantryman. Yes. Yeah, like while we were there everything was kind of like Whatever training they conducted we were conducting and we were everything we did was together because ultimately By the end of that workup, we needed to be matched as one because we're gonna be, I mean, we're there helping each other, you know?

So yeah, everything, and that was cool for us as infantry guys that went over. We had gotten training that we had never even dreamed of ever getting. I mean, going to Hawthorne about it, doing, you know, high altitude shooting, and we went up to, you know, Fort Campbell, and trained with, yeah, I think it's fifth group

or whoever it was that we were training with, and you know, training with, you know, little birds and, you know, a patchies and stuff like that, you know, calling for air and, you know, engaging targets and stuff like that. Just stuff that we had never really thought we'd get the chance to do. And it was cool, we got to do all that stuff.

The biggest difference, you biggest difference from infantry transitioning over to Marsock was the funding. When I came up in the Marine Corps, it was always do what you can, make do what you can with very little. We always did the most we possibly could with a little bit that we had. And we went to Marsock, we had all the ammo we needed.

We had the weapons we needed. We had the gear that we needed, all that stuff. So it was a totally different world How long after the train how long after you were hand selected to do security for Marsok or Marsok or reconnaissance at the time it was it when we went over is when it turned when it was Turned to Marsok And that was in 2006. Okay. How long after you got there, did you deploy again with that unit? Well, yeah, that was, I got there.

Soon as we got to Marsox, it wasn't, but maybe two weeks and we rolled right into a workup. And that was a nine month workup. And I'm talking we did everything. Oh, shit. Nine months. Nine months. And you're working with the operators? Yeah, yeah, essentially working with the operators. Different school, we went, we had a school phase where guys were tasked out to go to different schools and learn different things. And then once that phase is over, we come back together and we train together collectively as a unit. How did they receive you guys? They hated us. They fucking hated us.

They fucking hated us. You're a blocking force for them. They fucking hated you. Yeah, like they hated us. I'm trying to remember a guy that I later down the road ended up becoming friends with. He's very well known guy in the community, but he hated us with a fucking passion. He's like, basically I remember one day, he's like, you know, he's talkin' to one of his buddies and he's like, man, these dudes are like,

little fuckin' Iraqis, why are they even here? You know, they just didn't want us there. And the reason being is that we didn't come up the way that they did. When they graduated the School of Infantry, they may have went right directly to BRC, the Basic Reconnaissance Course or the Inhibius Reconnaissance School.

And we just didn't, we didn't go that same pipeline, we didn't go. And honestly to them, we just were not up to par, you know, we didn't, we couldn't do what they did because we didn't have the training and the experience. We just weren't as good as them, you know. I had to be, you weren't doing what they were doing. Yeah, man, it's just one of those,

one of those things, man, the egos were flying around and, you know, and, and we just kind of kept our mouths shut. We knew that we were the new kids on the block and we didn't really, you know, have what they had. And, but we knew that our time would come. Our time was gonna come where we could prove ourselves and we would be looked at as an asset. And that time did come, you know.

So you go on to the climate, where you headed? Chalala bad. I have to understand. Oh, J bed. So you go on to deployment where you headed? Chill all about. I've got to stand. Oh, J bad. Oh, J bad. That's a nice town. So you're in J bad. And what's the mission?

Because it sounds like infantry was a lot of presence patrols and kind of PSD were full. Yeah, yeah. Right, ranking individuals. Now you're attached to a so-com soft unit, which, you know, the mission is completely different. Yeah, totally different. I mean, it's not like you're,

you were not out there doing like, things like presence patrols, and you're patrolling the area just to kind of gain atmosphere, every time you went outside of the wires with a purpose. Yeah. like presence patrols and he's showing the area just to kind of gain atmospheric. Every time you went outside of the wires with a purpose, you're running missions. Very planned how down to the nats has detailed missions, running raids and doing big sweeps of villages where we're going through and you know, it might be

rolling through a Taliban infested village. You like that word infested. Yeah. So it was very different though. And our mission again was to provide security for the DAS replatoon. That was our pretty much our our main goal there, making sure that they could do what they needed to do. Man in the heavy guns, set in a cordon, all that stuff. But it was for more direct action raids and stuff like that. HVTs and shit. Yeah, folks, they changed to HVIs because HVTs wasn shit. Yeah, focusing on HVTs or at some point they changed to HVIs because HVTs wasn't politically correct or whatever, but you get the picture. Our figure. Yeah. How did the opt-empo change? Were you guys still getting engagements

every night or did it kind of change a little bit? It changed, it wasn't that deployment at first. It wasn't really quite as kinetic. I mean, we did get into some engagements, but it wasn't as reoccurring as it was. We did have lots of, get lots of radio traffic, cell phone traffic that we were tracking. They were planning on taking over our compound, breaching the walls and taking over. So that was always there.

In addition to, you know, being outside of the wire when we're doing missions and whatnot. But we we did get engaged. And ultimately, you know, sad is it is to say that deployment got cut a little bit short because that was the very first Marsauck company to deploy to Afghanistan. That was like since Marsauck had been stood up, we were the first ones to go. And here is this. This is we left in the beginning of 2007. Okay. And we ended up getting kicked out of country. I've heard about this incident. So I've heard about this incident.

The first, the first Marsoch unit to deploy under silicon. And I heard it was a fucking shit show. Yeah, to say the least, man. It was a Fox company. And I mean, I was working at the time under probably the most, one of the most respectable officers within the force reconnaissance Marsauk community at the time, major Fred Galvin was our company commander.

And, you know, he, he basically, he knew what the fuck we were there to do. And you know, unfortunately, the incident that happened that resulted in us getting kicked out of the country at ruined careers, his being one of them, just completely ruined guys careers. Well, what was the incident? Ah, so those guys recently got exonerated. This has been years. So think from 2007 to when they got exonerated in 2019, that's them out of time it took. It's fucking 12 years.

12 years, dude. And by this point, their careers have went down the drain. And now they're just trying to save what's left of their lives. But ultimately, it was a vehicle board and ID that struck our convoy. And we were being engaged from multiple different compounds around us. You know, multiple different compounds, you know, around us and Marines doing what they are trained to do, you know, start to push out of the kill zone and engage the threat. At some point in time, somebody, I know, I don't know if this is a tactic that was used by the Taliban at that time saying that there were innocent civilians that had gotten killed as a result of this, but it went up to the top of the flagmanal man and it was a huge investigation on why these Marines basically killed innocent civilians in Afghanistan.

Everybody kind of forgot the fact that, but initiated this engagement was, it was a car bomb. Yeah, you know, a car bomb was driven into one of our vehicles on the convoy, and we did what we were trained to do. Yeah, I remember hearing about that, and yeah, it, special operations, it handles shit a lot differently and it's a lot more surgical and it was very...

Yeah, I'll give you an example, man. Those of you that haven't been to Afghanistan before, you probably wouldn't know this, but like there were times where we'd go outside of the wire to zero in different weapons, you know, go out, go out, test the Mark 19's test 50 cows, make sure everything was working properly, knowing that we had enough commemission. Dude, those little kids there, little Afghan kids? They would literally be sitting there off the side of the Humvee as, you know,

we're engaging, you know, targets, you know, we're just, you know, at the range or whatever, and they would be sitting there collecting the brass. So I remember, you know, one of the investigators is some high ranking, you know, officer who didn't know what the fuck he was talking about because he had never been in combat before. It was like, well, you guys say that you were engaging enemy combatants that were firing from you. We went back days later, we didn't find

any spent brass on the ground. And we're like, well, no fucking shit because it's been collected. So somebody that hasn't been out of Afghanistan wouldn't know that or hasn't been, you know, in combat, for say, but. Yeah, well, I mean, it's really easy for these fuckheads to, you know, backseat, quarter backseat, quarterback, an entire event. And, you know, they don't even know what the fuck it feels like to get rocked by an IED.

Then you throw in, you know, you brought up the kids and this reminded me, I remember when I was in Afghanistan, they were taking kids and filling their bicycle tires with explosives and they would have the kids ride their bike towards the convoy and start detonating their fucking bicycles. And you've got people that are, you know, they're wearing the, the, the man jammies, uh, tire and the clack rounds, uh, you know, off at you with an AK and then hide the AK under their, under their fucking clothes because they're so baggy. And when all this shit's happening all at once, it can be real fucking hard to ID in pinpoint

exactly where the threats come in, especially when it's coming from fucking everywhere. Yeah. And I mean, they would have guys dressed up like women, Berkas were in a suicide vest that'll blow fucking building down. And then you got some fucking jag that comes in and you know, backseat quarterbacks, the whole fucking thing, and Roan's careers and lives, and yeah, fucking sucks. So, so you went home and we went home and that was, it was tough. You

know, after a nine month workup, you know, it was really tough to come to terms with the fact that like, that was, that sucked. But also, it was kind of, it sucked for us because all of Socom is looking at us through a microscope at that time to see what are the Marines gonna do. Like, how are they gonna perform on their very first deployment? And it was just to complete, you know, in the eyes of the time and the eyes of Socom,

it was a complete flop. And that was in J-Bad that happened. Yeah. I had heard that was in j bad that happened yeah I had heard that was in Kabul but it wasn't Kabul it wasn't Kabul yeah okay we yeah we were working in j bad and in Kabul at the time though we were we were operating right out of Kabul air base there and that's where it happened how long were you guys in country how like how long was that deployment? I think from it ended up like from start to finish it maybe ended up being like a hundred days. Oh shit. Okay. Maybe a hundred twenty days. Yeah, they got cut real short man. Maybe a hundred twenty days tops. Um, that's still, you know, when you guys got home, how was the morale with everybody?

Mariah was loaded, Mariah was real low. We didn't know what was going to happen with the guys that were under investigation. We really didn't know what the future was going to hold for them. And there was a lot of changes made. When we got back from that deployment, they completely did away with the whole format of the company, you know, where you had your trailer slash security platoon,

you had your dice or platoon that worked together. That went away. That completely went away. So at that point, it was like, all right, so all you guys that came over from second time, second range don't really have a purpose for you anymore. So you need to go home. So you're going back to the grants? Well, that's what most of the guys ended up doing. Got sent back. There was a select few of us that they, I don't know, I mean, I don't know how it happened or why it happened essentially. I guess, you

know, some of the guys, you know, the company commander and two sergeants from that desk to, you know, saw something in a few of us that, you know, he really liked and thought that we could, you know, you know, I don't like what I just said, but anyways, I think what you're trying to say is you just got fucking hand selected for a second time to to stay, but on permanent orders as a actual operator. Yes. Yeah. Now, and that was under the I don't want to say agreement, but it was basically like hey, you're getting orders here But you're gonna get school to fuck out because we understand that yes, you've got some combat experience. Yes Yes, we feel like you know, you're gonna asset to the battalion

But we need to get you up to speed, you know, things that, you know, we don't really get as infantry, you know. Do you know how fucking big that is? Like seriously, you got fucking hands-selected to go to a essentially blocking force for a special operation, marine special operations, Marsauk. You did that. You did a three-month deployment. Whatever the fuck you did in that three months, must have been pretty badass because then you were hand selected again to come on as a fucking operator without going through the selection course. Well, it's just to put this shit in perspective for you, like all the way up to the top level,

it fucking dev group and Kag, you screen to go there. They don't fucking, they're not out there hand selecting everybody. You might get a push like, hey, you might wanna fucking go screen and go to dev group. They had a dev group, doesn't come fucking find you, you know?

So, I just wanna say that. Did you ever think about at the time? No, dude, and you know, it's weird because at that time, we were at a weird transition from force reconnaissance to Marsox. So there was still a lot of unknown. We were still going through a lot of growing pains. So there was still a lot of unknown. We were still going through a lot of growing pains. At the time, there was no individual training course, which is like RQ course, nine month training pipeline that you go through to become a critical skills operator.

There was no course, there was no assessment selection. So there was no real option at that point. I could have went to BRC, but at that point, Recombatayan was going to remain as part of the second, as the marine regiment and Marsauk was going to be a part of Socom. So that training at BRC was kind of, it wasn't completely relevant, you know what I mean? Because it didn't include a lot of the training that you need to have to become a CSO or a critical skills operator.

While I did have some of the amphibious training and stuff like that, and a land nav piece and whatnot, it just wasn't, and that's why they developed a much longer in depth course being the individual training course. So yeah, at that time, I was essentially, I got grandfathered and went to schools and stuff like that. So but at the time I didn't really think of it the way you just put it, you know. Yeah, well, you know, that's, most guys don't think about that,

because we're, some of us are humble and, you know, some of us aren't. But, I would say the majority of you guys are pretty fucking humble, but, you know, there's a perspective for it that you probably never thought about, and you should be fucking pretty proud that you were hand selected to become a fucking plank owner of what wound up becoming Marsock. Yeah. How long was, how many different schools did you go to and, and how long was it before you wound up deploying again? Well, so shortly after,

shortly after getting back from the deployment with Fox Company, I basically re-engered, re-aggravated a prior injury from my first deployment. I was involved in an IED role over incident. Basically, where my home V was flipped, I broke my back and I had multiple, I ended up needing multiple spine surgeries as a result of it. So that kind of put a kink in the plan of that whole school phase while I did manage to get into a couple of schools.

You know, when I re-injured, you know, I think I was at one of the schools. It was like one of my PME courses, which I don't know if you guys did that in the Navy, but like your professional military education courses, like the shit that you're required to have in order to get promoted to the next rank. I scammed out of those.

Did you? And you got lucky. We had, they were like, anal, like you, you were going. Like, didn't matter how did you and you got lucky we had do they were like aino like you you were going That didn't matter how cool you thought you were what you had under your belt like you were fucking going so I Re-interred my you know reactivated my injury At that at that course and You know had to go you know had to get surgeries and stuff like that so I was rehabbing man and

You know a lot of people didn't notice, but at the time, like, my wife and I had a child who had some severe medical issues, you know, he was eating through a feeding tube, and he was really young, man. He was only like three or four months old, and all we knew is that he had some issues going on. And we were trying to get to the bottom of that and figure out, okay, what's going on my son?

I mean, we're traveling all over the country, Cincinnati Children's Hospital, Duke University, UNC Chapel Hill, going to see all these doctors and specialists to perform these different procedures and stuff on my son and different tests and stuff to figure out what was going on. So at the time, my leadership, you know, the command thought it was in the best interest of myself and my family to get orders to the Marine Special Operations Schoolhouse. I'd be taking out of a deployable billet put over to the schoolhouse for a term.

billet put her over to schoolhouse for a term. That would afford me the time needed to be able to one to rehab to get back to full duty and then two to give me the time I needed to be able to take my son to these different, you know, appointments and stuff like that and figure out what was going on with him. And dude, that was probably, I'd say that timeframe was probably the hardest time out of my whole military career. Even at some of the shittiest times during my deployments, like I think that time was probably one of the hardest times of my military career. Yeah.

So you're rehabbing your back, you're trying to figure out what's going on with your son. Oh yeah, and I'm going through a divorce. You're going through a divorce. Yeah. And then on top of that, you're dealing with all the combat stress that you know comes with the with the job. And that's a lot of that's that's a lot to deal with a whole lot. So That's a lot to deal with a whole lot so What would happen with your son? How's he doing now?

Dude like my son he is Light years. I had to where he was at that time. I mean they didn't think you would walk There's a lot of unknown He has been diagnosed with autism. He has been diagnosed with cerebral palsy, which were, there were good things. We got answers. We wanted to know what's going on. Why is my son this way?

But ultimately, he's gotten the care and the treatment that he needed. He's progressed, like I said, light years ahead of where he is. And he's good. I mean, he's good to go. He's come off the feeding tube. He's eating enough food by mouth to stain his weight. He does speech, occupational and physical therapy every week.

He goes to a school that's specifically for kids with special needs. So he's doing great, man. He's doing awesome. That's awesome, man. Yeah. I can't even... That's a lot to go through.

Yeah dude, and the thing that really fucked with my head the most was during that time, you know, I got sent to the schoolhouse specifically for the reason to, hey, this is going to give you the time you need to get back to full duty, take care of your son, get your life on track. But people under the leadership, my leadership didn't always understand that. Guys that I was close to, understood what was going on, but for the guys that didn't know what was going on, you know it was tough, man. I'd go, you know, fly up to Cincinnati Children's Hospital for two weeks with my son and my soon to be ex-wife to go have this procedure for my son

and I'd show back up at work and I'd have a guy be like, how cool, it's nice to you to come back to work with your kid get sick again. That shit really fucked with me man. Like it hurt because I knew that, like I already felt bad enough, I already had that guilt trip of not being there. It was already bad enough being at the school

house and being pulled from, you know, the team. So, fuck, but, you know, so there was a little bit of a gap in time between So there was a little bit of a gap in time between that 2007, 2008 deployment till my next deployment. You know, I did a term at the schoolhouse and then I was sent to the regiment. I ended up coming back to full duty, three spires, surgeries later. I'm still jumping out of airplanes. I'm still, you know, rocking. I'm still all the shit that, you know, doctors told me,

you're never gonna be able to put an 80 pound rock on your back again and walk, you know? It's just, you're not gonna be able to do that. And I just wasn't here in that noise, you know? I would see some of the statements that would come back from the hospitals, like for my son's treatments and shit and did astronomical, astronomical amount of money like

and I'm thinking to myself if I get out because of this injury I'm never gonna be like what are we gonna do who's gonna pay for this I'm not even you know if I get out insurance companies might not even cover my son because he's got it now a pre-existing condition. So that was my motivation to come back to full duty. Physical therapy on base wasn't doing shit for me. I fucking hired a personal trainer, out of fucking sports rehab facility that trained fucking athletes. And I went in there, fucking put my goddamn medical record

on the fucking table. That was about that thick at the time. And I told him, here's my deal. This is what I do. Here's my situation. I need to get from where I'm at back to this. And I paid out of pocket at this sports rehab facility to get back to full duty.

Had that not happened, do you think you would have separated at that time? What's that? Had what not? Had your son been taken care of or did not have the medical issues? Do you think you would have separated? It's tough to say, man, because yeah, that my son was a big part of that decision, but also I wasn't ready to drop my pack. Yeah.

I wasn't ready, you know, I hadn't gotten that monkey off my back yet. Yeah. So you went back to war. Yeah, yeah, basically, man, at the first opportunity I was given, I was working, I was working at the at the regiment, under a master gunnery sergeant, old good old Frank, I told him I said look I don't give a fuck what it takes man if there's any opportunity to get back into a team like signing me up I'm ready like and sure enough we had a good buddy of mine who was actually deployed at the time with Fox company who was deployed with them and he stepped on a pressure plate ID and lost his leg and they needed a combat replacement, somebody to go over there, you know, quick fast and a hurry

to cover down on his duties. So I volunteered for that, went over 2013. I went over this time. It was a went to Kabul province and essentially finished out the deployment there shortly before coming home, the unit that was coming over to replace Fox company, golf company was getting ready to come and do turnover and I got an email from a master guns back state side and said, Hey, we've got an 18 Charlie with this team whose wife is having some serious medical complications. He's not going to be able to make the deployment. Would you have any interest in cross-decking? It would help us out tremendously.

So, that turned into that, you know, four-month deployment. Well, it was left of that deployment anyways. And it would be in four months for me. That four-month deployment turned into, like, an 11-month deployment. Holy fuck, yeah. 11 fucking months, yeah. You didn't come back once? I came, I went back.

At that time, I didn't know I was gonna be cross-decking. Yeah. And I had like my house and shit back home that I needed to like, I just wasn't administratively prepared to be gone for that long and I said, hey, those guys aren't here yet, let me fly home for a week. Let me just get all that stuff, you know, under wraps, make sure it's good to go and I'll come back. So I went home for about a week and a half. And then came back and jumped right into a team that I had never worked with.

Now, granted, I knew, I knew a few of the guys in the team. I had been through different shooting packages and demo packages and shit like that, working with these guys. But for the most part, I was like the new guy on the block. So yeah, technically, you went from the training house to right in the fucking thick of it. right in the fucking thick of it. Yeah. As I mean, it's your first, technically your first deployment as a special operations operator from Marsock. Yeah.

Yeah, so, and I was looked at, you know, like, the guy, for the guys that knew me in that team, they were excited to have me there because they knew, you know, what I was about. But for the guys that knew me in that team, they were excited to have me there because they knew what I was about. But for the guys that didn't know me, it was like, who the fuck is this guy? So that first month of that deployment, a lot of it was having to kind of prove myself,

let it show in that I was there to contribute to the team and to do bad things to bad people. Yeah. What was the, what was the opt-tempo on this deploy? That opt-tempo, the opt-tempo with that deployment was just insane. No shit. We had, that's probably, I'd have to say

that deployment was probably the most fun I've ever had. I'm really here. Yeah, I mean, it's just, I was a correlation of like, the years of training and blood, sweat, tears, everything that you put into, you know, you know, the training and the workups getting ready for deployments. And then that, just having that opportunity, being presented with that opportunity, being able to utilize all that training and that's the skill sets and a real life, you know real world life kind of thing.

What was the primary mission? Was it? We were there doing FID, you know, we had our host nation forces, we were running commandos, we were running ANASF, which for those who are not familiar, it's Afghan National Army, but they're special forces. So we stood up a curriculum and a pipeline for the commandos that wanted to go like a special forces route and get more training. And we literally train those guys on everything. How, how many guys are there? Because sometimes we did fit and fib was like fucking one Iraqi. All I wanted to, we had two, we had two platoons attached to us. They were living in the same compound as us.

So you're like doing the SF mission for the most part? Yeah. Now, and that turned into like that fit mission turned into more like direct action, special reconnaissance type missions. You know, our job was to be there to mentor and advise the Afghan National Army to ensure that they had the training they needed to be able to take the wheel. It doesn't always work out that way. But during that time, I mean, we were at a VSP village stability platform, kind of in the middle of nowhere in Harat province, and where we were, man, it was just surrounded by villages

that were nothing but Taliban. So, if we were outside the wire getting engagements, they were rocketing the shit out of us, and, you know, doing stuff like that. So it was, we stayed busy. And even like, the guys in that team, they didn't like to have nothing to do. They were always wanting to work.

Everybody had crazy work ethic and just was ready to go. We knew that deployment was kind of the end of the line. That deployment was essentially right before the plug was pulled and the majority of forces were pulled out about getting to stand. And we knew that all the BSPs were getting demailed and tore down and all that stuff. I know this from when we were working before and I've heard, you know, you talk about it and I've seen the video, but a major event happened that you were involved in again, that you can essentially take credit for.

So let's go over what happened there. We got, we basically got tasked with going through, you know, got tasked by siege soda. They wanted us to go and do a sweep through this village where they had Intel saying that there were some ID facilitators and guys that were running ID and weapons facilitators and guys that were running back and forth from Afghanistan and Iran. Guys were coming back and forth. And when they came back, that was essentially the area where all these weapons and ID making materials were being disseminated to Taliban. So we were, you know, tasked with going through doing a full sweep of this village, searching

everything. It was supposed to be like a two day op. And we were going to walk in because at that time their EW or their early warning signals were just, they were good. They knew every, they, we left the wire. They knew we were coming. If they would have you know Little brevity codes you know the wolves are coming the wolves are coming you can hear on the cell phone chatter

um and So we said you know what fucker. We're gonna walk. See you fucking hunked in yeah, we we've got a lot of you know We had I mean you're talking two days Two days worth of shit in a rock and you think two days, I'm just back some skibbies and socks now. You need fucking batteries, you need chow, you need enough ammo or if shit hits the failure, you're not going to go winchester. So we're loaded the fuck down. Did you guys have any fucking assets or was just, uh,

now, or at that for that, for that mission, we didn't have, there was no Q or F. We were out there on our own dude like it was we were I think 60 miles from the closest base so we were on our own there was no Q or F occasionally we would have ISR and stuff like that but for that that one we did not no shit not until the daytime so we walk in at night once we get into the village, you know, we basically hold up in a compound, wait for daylight. Daylight comes, we come out of the compound, everybody goes their positions and we start our sweep. Wasn't even 10 minutes. We started taking fire. At this point we had three elements, all three elements were split into different positions. My element, we

slipped into a compound, the closest compound, that we could find to take cover, and basically we fought from the compound. They were from all different directions. We cut out murder holes in the walls of this compound. I got up on the roof for a lot of these houses in Afghanistan, the way that they're constructed. They're essentially mudhuts. They're hard, not hardest concrete, but they're big mudhuts.

And they've got these giant domes on the top, almost like fighting positions. That's what I did. I got up on the top of the roof and started engaging targets. You can see the guys were running back and forth and popping out of doorways and buildings and stuff like that. So yeah, I was up on the roof. They kind of honed in on my position. You could see like where I was kind of tucked in between these two domes. I would put my head down and you could see like rounds would be like ricocheting off the top of the dome. And at this time, I had a helmet camera on and I'm just kind of, I went back and look at the footage afterwards and it's like, I'm just sitting there laughing.

But uh, it's weird. Sometimes it's a good feeling when you're getting shot at because you know what it's about to happen. Yeah, yeah. So, uh, it just so happened that my team leader happened to be with my element when that went down. He just happened to be with us as we were doing the sweep and he's down inside the compound and he's on the fucking hook with our JTAC trying to get air assets on the line to get him to come in.

He's like, dude, you need to come down. You need to come down. So, I come down off the roof and we had three murder holes in a dugout, different sides of this compound, one on each side. And he's like, hey, if you want, you know, going there with so-and-so and, you know, just man the murder hole, just, you know, see what's going on. So for a while there, there was a lull in fire. It wasn't really shit going on.

It got quiet. It went from like, eh shit was going off everywhere to just stop. So my buddy's like, hey man, I need to piss. You mind just, you know, keep an eye on him. Yeah, be good. So, you know, I'm in this murder hole. I'm just sitting here and I'm watching an all of a sudden. I see two dudes on a motorcycle hauling ass.

They're coming on and they're trying to flank us this way. I don't know if they had another element or something that they were staged that we were trying to get. They were trying to get to, or what? But I could see when they were hauling ass, they both had man jams and both had AKs strapped to their backs. Which, do we were just in a firefight? Like, you're a just in a firefight,

like your military, age, male, you're on a motorcycle and you've got an AK strap to your back, like fair game. Well, as I'm in this, yeah, I'm looking through this murder hole, I didn't catch the guys in this motorcycle until I got about to my right lateral limit, if you will, or to my field of the view was cut off.

So immediately the instinct kicks in again. I haul ass. My buddy's get he's coming from using the bathroom back into the room where we were at. And I'm like push him out of the way and I move. And I'm hauling ass. And I was trying to make it to the other side of the compound so I could get into the other murder hole to see where they were going. So at the time we had one of our commandos was he was in that room and I go in there,

I'm like, hey, let me get in here, let me get in here. So I get in and sure enough, they're still coming. And I just engaged, I was singing around to each guy. First one launched the driver of the motor cycle off the motor. It's like we're really close range. I don't think they realized that we had mirror holes dug out and they didn't see anybody on the roof anymore. So I think they took that as a window of opportunity to make a run for it. You think they thought you were dead? They don't, I don't think they thought I was

dead. They could have thought that. They may have thought that, but they all they know is that there was nobody else on the roof. Returning fire. Because when I was up there, I'd pop up over the dome, you know, return some shots, get back down. Well, good 20 minutes went down, went, went by where I wasn't up on the roof. So I think they saw that as their window of opportunity to either try to get away or try to get to another position or whatever They were trying to do and essentially I got they got cut off. Yeah, so I engage both targets um, and then the fire starts again like well Let me back up engage both targets. Now let our team leader know Lurgetack know hey

We've got two guys down over here on a motorcycle. All right, we'll check it out. What range was it? Like how close is it? We were probably like 50 yards. 50 yards. Not even.

Okay, not even. No, I'm thinking of it. It's probably close or like 35 yards. Oh, fuck. It was close. Okay. Yeah, they were real close to the building and where the road was, they were

trying to try to go by. And he flew off the fucking bike. The first dude, the first guy, so the first guy that I engaged was the driver of the motorcycle because that was, I wanted to stop the motorcycle. So he was the first one I engaged. Literally, that was my first time ever shooting a guy, a bad guy in combat with a scar heavy. So I know we got a lot of people either lover you hate to scar. I'm not a huge fan of it, but what I'll tell you what it does at close range is pretty impressive. So yeah, essentially kind of launched this guy off the motorcycle. Before the motorcycle could fall over, the guy in the back tried to stand up as the motorcycle is falling over. and about the same time

The his feet hit the ground is when I pulled the trigger on the second shot and You know took him out as well. Shit, so you must have hit him from the side then. Yeah, yeah They were coming from the side. So I hit him both from the side. Yeah, fuck and they're just one shot one shot, dude That's all it took that's all it took goddamn one shot on each that was a fuck and so moving forward We we had a couple casualties We had a Medevac bird in route

but Because we're at it was too hot. We needed to link up with the other element who then had the casualties. We needed to link up with them Which is like probably 500 yards away To another compound to be able to provide security so that the bird the Medevac bird could lay in and pick up our casualties How many can't were they Americans or they we had two? I want to say two Afghans and one American yeah I want to say two Afghans and one American. Yeah. There's two Afghan national army guys

and one US coalition guy. Yeah. None of them were severe, but severe enough to where we needed to call them, Medevac. So we exit the compound. You know, we know everything, by this point an hour or so has gone by with no fire.

We go to exit the compound, we don't make it, you know, 100 yards. We start getting engaged again. They were just wind. Yeah, they were waiting for us to move. And this time they were behind a wall, and they had PKMs, RPKs. Oh shit.

I mean, the whole nine. Luckily, where we were at the time was close to a little irrigation ditch. And so you're talking like an element of, you know, six, probably like six soft guys and then like another dozen commandos. And we're all like crawling through this ditch. And I distinctly remember laying face down in this ditch and my

ruck mind you I packed out my ruck like I was gonna need it for two full fucking days is supposed to be a 48 hour mission so I'm crawling through this ditch and I can feel rounds impacting my ruck sack which I do still have the Rucksack. Oh shit. Yeah. So I could feel the rounds impacting and right in front of me is our JTAC. They weren't hitting your Funga gummy bears, were they? Oh dude, that would have been fucking game over for the rest. I kept those on my person. Yeah. First line. So JTAC's right in front of me and he's on the hook, you know, he's trying to get get a patch. He's to come in and whatnot and we're pinned down and I can, I'm sitting there and I remember being in boot camp and having to go through the little course that they had with like,

you know, barbed wire little things and you're crawling through the mud and they're like, drag your face, drag your face, and you're like thinking to yourself at the time, when the fuck am I ever really dragging my face in the fucking mud, like what? And at that time, I was dragging my fucking face to you. That's how low I was. I was trying to get so small in that little ditch because I could feel those rounds impacting, you know, my rock and I was like, man, a couple inches lower and they're gonna hit me. Yeah. All of a sudden, this makes sense. Yeah, yeah. So I'm dragging my fucking face and sure enough, fucking patches, fucking come in and just start doing gun runs. No shit. I'm talking danger close because I'm literally in the irrigation ditch right behind our

JTAC and I can hear him saying, I don't give a fuck if we're danger close. Fucking engage. Was this daytime or nighttime? This is daytime. Oh fuck. This is daytime. So two patches come in and are just fucking destroying everything. And how close? Like less than a hundred fucking

yards. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't make your asshole fucking. If it didn't even more than it already is. Yeah. Yeah. So, but that that was like. So that happened. They engaged the enemy, eliminate the enemy. And we keep going. We link up at the other compound Medevac bird comes in and then we end up, you know, leaving. I think it was the following afternoon. We had a team meeting in the talk and we're kind of going around the horn, getting tell reports from our intel analysts and different things, you know, trying to just everybody's keeping up to speed and my team sergeant was like, yep, so just so you know, K-fed, you got dead milkmen. Everybody's like, what? Dead milkmen was number three on the HVI list at the time. He'd been getting tracked for multiple deployments, multiple CL teams, multiple ODAs trying to fuck you get this guy. And it just so happened by chance. He was one of the guys on that motorcycle.

And you fucking got him. Apparently, I got him. And you were the only shooter. Yeah, only shooter. Nobody else saw him because unless you were looking through that murder hole, damn, you wouldn't have been able to see him. So you fucking took out number three. Number three. Yeah. I think number three has, like, a two or three week life expectancy. Yeah. For a long time, but I mean, it's fucking number three. That's how that feels. Fuck good, man.

It felt really good. At that time, I had already been accepted in the team. Like I had made friends. Those guys were awesome. Like we had been through shit together already, but that felt really good. And the only way we found out was, you know, just as well as I do like in that culture, they are, they are supposed to bury their dead within 24 hour timeframe. And the way we found out is by that afternoon, after we had left, because that happened

about mid-morning, by late that afternoon there was like 350 to 400 people there for a little like funeral service for the burial of dead milkman. How the fuck, so? I saw our feed basically. They were able to idea them from that and you didn't get to take any skin or fucking.

Oh, hair from here, yeah. You didn't hear it, you didn't hear it. Yeah, we took hair samples and stuff. So between that and then, you know, all the intel we got, you know, ISR and stuff like that, showing the funeral and everything, all the cell phone chatter and stuff that was going on between the locals and the people there,

we had gotten dead milk man. Fuck man. Yeah. Well, I'll bet they're glad they hand selected you for the fucking unit. So otherwise that motherfucker might still be running around, especially since everybody was already after him.

Yeah. And that's how it is, too. All the fucking units are competing with each other. You know, it's the fucking seals are competing with Bar-Sok, Grimberg, everybody. We're all just competitive nature guys. You know, we're just all trying to... And it was just one of those things, dude,

right place, right time. I didn't do anything that anybody else wouldn't have done or it wasn't like I, you know, did anything special to get in that position. I just happened to be in the right place the right time. And, you know, I knew I was engaging somebody that was a threat. Didn't know who it was What's a fucking huge threat? Yeah, was it the driver of the motorcycle or the passenger? It is no passenger. He was being come to find out it was like he was being escorted out of the area

I'll be damned. I think it's safe to say that that op was probably the highlight of that deployment for me anyways. For me personally, that was like the highlight of that deployment and essentially highlight of my career. I mean, it's when everything comes together, years and years of training and dedication that you put forward to what our job entails and you have the ability to utilize that. You know over there, that's like, doesn't get better than that, you know what I mean? Yeah, well, I mean, I could definitely see how that would be the highlight of fucking getting rid of number three, but you got rid of another number three. Yeah, we went on, we, that deployment, that was about halfway through that deployment and

Yeah, we we went on we that deployment. That was about halfway through that deployment and and again, it was a very successful deployment like we did a lot of shit We ended up, you know killing some other age, you know high-value individuals You know before we left So if you if you gauge your success by that like we went there and did what we were required to do or expected to do I should say and then factor bags went home Yeah, it sounds like you guys were operating at the at the fucking apex of what anybody any operator could dream of and That's fucking awesome. Yeah, absolutely. That's a good way to put it for sure. For sure, it was very, the satisfaction factor was definitely there.

You're doing everything you put the time in and the blood and the sweat and the tears to do and then you go home and how was that? So you go home. This is where shit starts to fall apart. Yeah, you know, everybody, the modern day guys, the guys that are getting out more recently, they start hearing these stories about the transition and I think it's probably the most dreaded part of your life that these guys have to look forward to when they get out. But yeah, the transition for me it was extremely challenging.

You know, when I got back from that deployment, you know, a couple of months it went by. And I started noticing that I was experiencing things and having just certain scenarios and situations and symptoms, I guess you could say, I didn't know what the fuck was wrong with me. I didn't know what was going on. I mean, I would have these fits of rage where I would just go from like zero to a hundred like that, you know. Severe migraines, headaches, I mean straight up like debilitating.

I felt like you couldn't fucking do anything. I mean, I remember there was a point where just driving to work, you know, driving to the dying in the morning, you know, I'd have to pull off the side of the road and throw up. Couldn't tell you why. Only shit. Couldn't tell you why. Now, I didn't really, all this shit was happening and, you know, the depression set in and all that stuff.

And I never said anything. It was just kind of like swept under the rug. And it kind of came to a head. I remember I was getting ready to go to a school. I don't remember if it was die school or what it was. I was getting ready to go to a school and I needed an updated physical. So I go into BAS, which is our doctor's office, if you will.

And I'm like, hey, I need some signatures from the doc. I need a physical. The corpsman there is like Roger that. Let's go ahead and get your your vitals. Yada yada yada. And three sits down, takes my temperature. You know, it is my blood pressure. And he starts asking me questions.

And he's like, he's like, did you run here today? And I was like, no. And he's like, would you drink a pot of coffee? And I'm like, no, it's up with the weird questions. And he's like, well, dude, your fucking blood pressure is like Sky high. I'm like, what is it? He's like your blood pressure is 155 over 122. Holy shit. Yeah, and he's like, I don't know if you just hang here for a second. I didn't know that's at the time, but he went back to the MO, which was the medical officer at the time, who's a female lieutenant in the Navy. And I won't say

her name, but he was back there for about five minutes and he came back up and he's like, hey, he's like, it's just gonna be a few minutes. I'm like, was everything okay? And he's like, hey, he's like, it's just gonna be a few minutes. I'm like, because everything's okay. And he's like, yeah, and he's like, I don't know if we're gonna be able to get you to signatures or anything right now. And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? Well, I need to leave if that's not gonna happen. And he's like, you can't go.

And I'm like, I mean, I can't go. And he's like, the doc specifically told me that you're not allowed to leave. So she pulls me in your office and she's like, yeah, your blood pressure, you're at fucking risk of stroke. Like, your shit's highest fuck. And this had been like 20 minutes had gone by before she had called me back.

And during that time, I guess she's going through my medical record with like a fine tooth comb. She didn't know who I was. When we were gone, that deployment is when she came in to the battalion. So she didn't know anything about me. There's this new guy that just got back a couple months ago from this golf company deployment, and was trying to go to the next cool guy course, you know. And she sets me down, and she's like, has anybody ever gone through your record with you? I'm like, nope. And she started kind of asking me, you know, questions, have you ever felt this? Have you ever done this? Have you ever had this

experience that I'm like, got to the point, I was like, yeah, what are you getting at? And she's like, there's, I think there's a correlation between your high blood pressure and what I'm reading here in your medical record. And that was kind of the come to Jesus meeting that I thought I think that I really needed. Well, what specifically did you read in your medical record that this is related to? I had a total throughout my career. I had been exposed to 12, career I had been exposed to 12 either you can either IEDs or large blasts some of them were RPG blasts some of them were my vehicle was struck by an IED some of them were just random IEDs that went off away on a foot patrol and I was in close proximity so recorded I had 12 in my medical record. And that doesn't even count all the,

all the breaching, all the rockets on all that. Oh, no, man, that's not like, you know, we're training on the range and shooting laws, AT4s, you know, shit like that and doing demo pack. Just now, this is like, when incidents happen where I could potentially lost consciousness or it was like I had a time where my eardrums got ruptured because you know struck my vehicle but uh yeah so 12 fucking 12 is really 12 fucking TV eyes essentially it had the potential to be that now I didn't

I didn't lose consciousness 12 times from what I can remember. I prior laws conscious this like four times, maybe five, but whether or not that categorizes it as a TVI or not, I'm not too sure, but there was 12 cases, 12 instances throughout my career where it was significant enough to be documented in my medical record.

Fuck, and then this is from first deployment that you ever made with the infantry all the way to last one with Marsauk, and this is the first time that anybody any kind of red flags. It was good because the way she approached it, we're very fucking hardheaded, we're very prideful. We're quick to sweep shit like that under the rug and just focus on the mission at hand. And that's kind of what it was. And she was kind of like, look, fuck stick.

Like, you've got some issues. And when she kind of put it that way and she she's like, you know, ask me questions about family, I told her about my son and she's like, listen, she's like, your son, you care about your son, right? No, he's like, you want to make sure he's taking care of, like, yeah, she's like, you can't do any of that unless you take care of you. And that kind of resonated with me, you know, really kind of kind of hit home. And uh, so she's like, I want you to be honest with me. She's like, go home for the weekend. I want you, I'm going to make an appointment. You're going to come back next week and we're going to do a

full physical and I want you to be honest with me. And so I went home that weekend and just kind of thought about everything and I was scared to talk to say what I was experiencing because I was on that high. You know, we just come off a really successful deployment and I was getting ready to go to a school that I've been trying to get for a while. And then after I got back from that school, I was going to jump into another workup and deploy again. How long after deployment is this happening? After that last deployment, it was probably two months.

Holy fuck, were you having any symptoms on deployment? Yeah, actually, the symptoms had started even prior to my last deployment, but it was all stuff that I just, you know, we don't say shit, you know it was all stuff that I just, you know, do we don't say shit, you know what I mean? It's just, you know, you don't want to do anything that's going to remove you from your team, you know, stubborn in a sense, but so yeah, that happened, went back the next week and I spilled, I spilled my guts, man, I told her everything that I was experiencing, I told her, I don't know what the fuck's going on with me and I've been super depressed. So long story short, she wanted to enroll me in the Spirit and Treppin Center on Camp LeJune, which was our brain treatment facility. It's a 20-week

inpatient or outpatient program where they do everything from like vestibular rehab to cognitive therapy, physical therapy, occupational speech therapy, all that stuff. And you're basically going there and you're receiving treatment every day for 20 weeks. That's your sole purpose. And she thought that I needed to go into that program because of everything that was going on. And so they could kind of dig a little deeper and see what was going on. And that's when that's when I found out about the TBI and they

had done MRIs in my brain and shit. And you know, it's just like, okay, so when you went home for that weekend, nobody wants to be like, I guess I shouldn't say nobody. Most guys don't want to be diagnosed with anything because they don't want to be separated from the team or misad deployment or any of that shit. But on the other hand, at least for me, I didn't want, I was also at the same time scared to, I didn't want to hear what the fuck was wrong with me.

And I know a lot of other guys have that they have that Did you have any of that that fear that because once you get it? It's oh that's fucking real. Yeah, dude I was scared, you know and I look back on it now and think how full a show was but I used to be that guy that was like Fuck is PTSD? Yeah. Well, that shit's further weak. Yeah. That means you fucking have a weak mind. That's how I used to look at it

because I was just, didn't know, was all educated, thought I was fucking, you know, bulletproof, bad age, that's how you feel. You feel like you're unstoppable. You know, and that's kind of where I was. And it was a humbling moment when I realize like, this is me, like I'm human. And the accumulation of all these deployments and all this shit, like being at a high stress level in that fight or flight mode for years. You know, I was, that was

me now, you know, these are the effects. All this, these things that I was feeling, experiencing, and everything. It was a result of all that time that I had spent doing that cool guy shit, you know. So everybody's like, you know, not everybody, but I get a lot of people like, dude, holy fuck, you like the things that you did, it's fucking amazing. Like I would, I would kill the fucking, be able to do some of the things that you did. And while I'm grateful, I'm kind of like it fucking came with a price. Yeah. Came in a real hefty price.

You know, if you've heard of, uh, if you heard of operator syndrome, they're now saying that, um, I'm going to fuck this up, but they're now basically what they're doing as a PTSD became so broad that now that they're starting to, or have started to diagnose operators like yourself with operator syndrome because of all the other fucking symptoms that are coming out, you know, like your PTSD is different than the admin person who had a random rocket land next to their fucking bunk house. So, and I believe there's seven. I can't remember exactly what they are, but I believe there's like seven different

kind of symptoms that they've did make up operator syndrome, which is all, you know, from that stress. Huh, that's interesting and I can totally see that. I remember one of the things when I was at that brain treatment clinic was they asked me if I would be interested in doing group therapy. And I promised myself that when I went there that I would go in with an open mind and I would try my best to take advantage of every resource that was available. So I tried it. And you know, the first one I went to was the only one I went to, but it was like 15 people in a room all either Marines or Navy Cormin, and everybody had their own experience. But the thing was, some of them were combat-related and some of them weren't. Like a guy was, you know, you had a E2 or E3 sit next to me who had been in a car wreck,

and was suffering from TBI and PTSD, which I don't take anything away from his accident and his injuries, but it's totally different. So it just was hard for me. It wasn't relatable. It was hard for me to be in that setting. I felt like if I was going to do counseling or therapy, it probably needed to be better. Probably needed to be alone. You know, I didn't do well with group therapies,

but anyhow, so I was there, did the 20 week program, and during that time, it really opened my eyes, seeing where I was at with my baseline, with all the different test and shit. It revealed that I had issues. Yeah. And I guess, as I was being, as I was realized, it come to the realization that I had issues,

it was really that snowball effect was really taking place. My issues were getting worse and worse and worse. And at one point, man, I just got, I was in a really deep, dark place in my life. That was right before I got out of the Marine Corps. I had basically been given a choice. I was told I was never going to deploy again. That I had a choice to either do a ladder remove to a non-deployable MLS essentially an admin job or I would be medically retired that I had to choose between the two and that kind of fucked me up because I wasn't ready to

to drop my pack. I wasn't it was very difficult to come to grips with the fact that it was it was over. Yeah. How did they, um, how do they tell you you're not to pull, you're not going to deploy again. They told me I couldn't afford another concussion. All right. They're like, you're going to turn into a fucking vegetable. Like, you cannot afford another concussion. If you deploy again in the teams, there's a very high chance you will get another concussion and you can't, like we don't want to risk severe brain damage at that point, you know, not saying that that's what's going to happen, but you know, they're airing on the side of caution, you know, at that point.

Yeah. So that was tough. There was a time, dude, where like there wasn't a day that went by where I didn't contemplate suicide and think it out like how I was gonna do it. How were you gonna do it? That had an array of different ways I was gonna do it. Were you drinking? Yeah, drinking. I had gotten divorced. I had a failed marriage.

I was living in a three bedroom house all by myself. So I'd go home and nobody, you know, it was just lonely and I was trying to battle all these demons on my own, not really knowing what the fuck to do, you know? And I was kind of, I was resentful of the guys that I had served with, the guys of my team because the thing I've learned about, not just the Marine Corps, but, you know, all branches regardless of what you're doing is when you get out, that train doesn't stop rolling.

Yeah. That train keeps going and it doesn't look back. It doesn't slow down if you get off Thanks have a good time. It does exactly What the fuck it is supposed to do whether you are there or not? Yeah, and that's a fucking tough pill to swallow I didn't get any calls Nobody checked to see how I was doing. I don't think anybody really knew I was so like isolated I just isolated myself and you know I don't even know how the fuck I pulled myself out of that hole to be honest with you man it was bad it was real bad just I went and for like a solid year and a half

I just, I went in for like a solid year and a half. I was not myself. Like, I did some shit that I look back on now, but I'm just like, fuck, the fuck is wrong with you. You know what I mean? Just like, give this an example. Failed relationships, you know, with people, different, you know, just the way I would act, you know, like I just didn't give a fuck about anything or anybody, you know.

Yeah. I think I know where you're going with this, but I'm curious, did you look to your, I mean, your stepdad was a sniper in Vietnam and who had come home and He's still alive. So did you look to him for any type of guidance or did you? No, I didn't man. That's no, I didn't man. I was I was partially, you know embarrassed about it I didn't I didn't really know how to feel but I didn't have it like a mentor or somebody that I could talk to or somebody that could be like, yeah, do this is normal. It wasn't like that. I just, and honestly, had I, it was probably best that I experienced it by myself because I learned from it. I learned a lot. And ultimately, man, I think I think my son is probably what kept my head above water. Because I came very close on a couple of different occasions to take my own life. And

thinking about my son and him growing up without a father is what stopped me. So fast forward, you know, I, I get put on a med board. I'm found unfit for duty. I'm giving a date to get out of the Marine Corps. I'm done. I'm being medically retired. What year is this? This is the end of 2014. And I feel like the fucking walls are closing in around me because I have no fucking idea what I'm going to do. How does what I just did for the last 11 years of my life, going to translate to the corporate world or the civilian sector? Yeah. I don't want to be a fucking cop. I see what those motherfuckers deal with. And quite frankly, I just don't want to do it. Yeah. I was done carrying a fucking gun. Had nothing, didn't want anything

to do with it. For like a year and a half after I got out, I never even picked up a gun. Didn't carry, didn't have any fucking soul on my shed. Sold all my guns. Where did you, where did you go? I moved back down to Florida. That's where, you know, where I grew up and my dad lived there.

And, you know, I went and moved and my dad lived there and, you know, I went and moved in with my dad temporarily for a few months. He was, you know, he's been the most impactful person in my life and he was the one I felt like I need to go be with him for a little while and just kind of try to clear my head but and figure out what the fuck I was going to do with my life. What's next? What am I going to do for a living, you know? I can't, like, I, so I just, I was gonna do with my life. What's next? What am I gonna do for a living? I can't, like I,

so I just, I don't know what to do. You know, I was kind of lost in life. And, you know, so that during that time, you know, when I moved back down to Florida, you know, I tried a few, I dabbled in a few different things. I tried the school thing, you know, I tried a few, I dabbled in a few different things. I tried the school thing, you know, gee, I built that truck and worked out like a fart in church. Yeah.

How long did you try that? I'm just curious. Semester and a half. That's a, you gave it a good go. Yeah, I gave it a good go, but it just wasn't for me, dude. Like it just, I tried it. I thought that was like the thing to do.

Yeah, well, coming back from four fucking combat deployments, been blown up 12 times, killing the fucking number three guy, squat Marines that are pussy's out of the way, so you can jump on the machine gun and then go into a fucking classroom with a bunch of 18-year-old fucking jumps. That had to be a tough build. Yeah, dude. You want to talk about feeling like an insignificant piece of shit.

I was just trying to figure out what the fuck happened. A year and a half ago, I was fucking on top of the world. Yeah. You know? I was on top of the world. Yeah. You know, I was on top of the fucking world. And it was tough, man. So I did that, it would didn't work out for me than I thought, all right, so maybe I wanna do a trade school. Maybe I wanna go be a marine technician,

go learn how to work on out board motors and stuff like that. You know, got everything was doing my vocational rehab, you know, packet, going to that. I went the first day and I was like, nope, this isn't going to be good. Well, I said, I could just tell there was, you know, certain guys, there was younger guys in the class and then between that, certain guys in the class that I knew I wasn't gonna mesh well with, and then there was a personality conflict with the instructor himself.

And I was just like, yeah, I don't want to do this bad enough to stick this out for, I think the course for that was like almost a year. Were you getting a lot of anxiety and shit the interrupt people? Oh, bro, it's fucking unreal. And when I talk about personality conflicts and not meshing well with some of those other students and stuff, I think a lot of that was me.

You know what I mean? It was just me. I had no idea how to fucking deal with being a member of civilization, regular society. You know what I mean? Like, somebody we fucking tap in their pen on the desk, while somebody's talking and you're trying to concentrate and I want to fucking slam their face on the desk. You know? Yeah.

I think that's a big reason why people are always asking, we get a ton of emails and one of the really common question is, why do guys that come from special operations community or war fighters, why do they always self isolate? Why do they wind up in the middle of nowhere? And I think we're all just trying to avoid confrontation because we cannot deal with it the way we used to. Dude, the first day I moved back down to Florida. I broke a guy's jaw. I don't like, I've got a storage unit. I was getting my stuff. I won't go into too far into detail about the storage, but the guy deserved a nice weapon and I gave it to him, but uh, you know, hours after that, deputy shows up to the house.

You know, luckily I didn't get in trouble because the officer felt that my actions were warranted. Um, but that kind of was like, okay, I can't fucking do this kind of stuff anymore. Like, I'm gonna end up in jail. You know, I can't react the way that I normally would react. So, how many relationships, well, let me rephrase this, what relationships did you not ruin? Because a lot of guys ruin all the relationships with family,

wives, girlfriends, friends. I think it's safe to say that I probably fucking ruined all of them. Even with your dad. And some time. Yeah, later down the road, my dad and I kind of had to fall on out. Since then, we've rekindled that, you know, I'm not real close, but yeah. So you said you pretty much fucked up just about all your relationships, even with your dad, but you came down here and you're newly married just like me.

So obviously you had at least one that worked out and was able to put up with your fucking bullshit. That, I think that's what it boils down to is when you end up meeting your soulmate, it's that one person that's willing to put up with your shit. Yeah. I Met Jillian about four years ago we got married in October last year and She was my saving grace dude that I mean

When I found re you know, we found my love for fishing and taking the guys out that made me feel accomplished But she was that missing piece to my puzzle. She keeps me grounded, brings me back down when I'm you know out in left field and ultimately she's the one that pushed me to pursue my my goals, my dreams, my aspirations. So I got her locked down now. Well that's fucking awesome man. Yeah man we're really happy and we're both in a really good place. And I'm a very lucky guy. Yeah.

You guys are good together. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. A lot of people want to know how they can help somebody with PTSD or post-traumatic stress TBI with the transition. And I can tell you what definitely does not fucking work is when people try to relate to what you're dealing with who's never, who have never fucking been there. But so don't do that. But do you have any advice for people who who do want to help anything? I mean if you want to help just be a good fucking American. Don't let guys that have done so much in sacrifice so much for

the country feel like everything they do is for a fucking waste You know do it you get on social media and posting videos of yourself doing fucking 22 pushups You're not fucking making a difference. You're not doing shit Yeah, you're not raising awareness like you think you are and whoever fucking started that might might have thought it was but You're not okay, so just be a good fucking person, you know. Be a good person, and if you buy chance, do you come across a combat veteran? Just look and say what's up. You know, don't sit there and try to ask him

how many fucking people they've killed or don't do that shit. Just, you know, just ask him what's going on, you know, talk to him, introduce yourself. I had a guy, I remember one time, when I was, I went to another brain treatment facility in Dallas, Texas. I was working out the gym there that was right, right across from the facility there. And random dude just came up to me and he's like, sir, I don't want to interrupt your workout, but he's like, I recognize you. You're your pictures on on OAF page. And I'm like, that's pretty fucking,

we're not being a trained observer, that's pretty fucking good. But the kid didn't have any expectations. He wasn't like, you know, trying to fucking find out, you know, info about like what I did and just, you know, how you gonna get a picture with you. He genuinely was just like, dude, I want to say I got a ton of fucking respect for you and I don't I don't have any clue what you may have experienced but I just want to tell you thank you you know that's not that that was pretty cool you know yeah but yeah so you know fast forward probably year from there you know I fast forward probably a year from there. You know, I was still trying to figure out what the fuck I was going to do in life. And I get a phone call one day from a guy by the name of Ed Salu.

And he goes, Hey, dude, you want to go fishing? And I'm like, you know, I always want to go fishing, dude. So he's like, uh, he's like, well, here's the deal man. He's like, do you want to go down to Costa Rica and go bill fishing on a private yacht, swore fishing yacht, and just hang out and relax for like a week and I'm like, yeah, what's like, what I got to do?

Like, where do I sign up? Or, you know what, I'm like, what's the catch? And so long story short, he's like, look man, I got, there's this organization called Freedom Alliance, they do here, what they call the Heroes Vacation every year. And they basically select 15 guys to go down to Costa Rica and go down for a week and basically go bill fishing, you know, for Marlin and sailfish and stuff, you know,

once in a lifetime opportunity. And it's funny because in between missions on my last deployment, I remember we had a little internet center and I remember going in there and getting on the internet and researching about like different chargers and stuff because I told myself when I get home like that is my number one on my bucket list I want to go down and catch trophy billfish and the opportunity which presented myself I got to go down there and it was a life life altering experience. No shit. Yeah, I grew up fishing down in

Florida, freshwater fishing, saltwater fishing like I grew up doing that but during my time in the military I basically didn't do any of that. I didn't fish at all. When I got home, I kind of rediscovered my love for fishing again. When I went on that trip, it was life-changing, it really was. It was a life-changing moment in my life. I just kind of, a few times during that trip, I kind of sat back and just observed to see what it was doing, the impact it was having on the other guys that were invited to go on this trip. And I'm like, and the fucking light bulb came on and I'm like, I'm like, I can fucking make a difference. I can fucking do this. I have

the experience and the resources and the gear to fucking build a get more guys out on the water and let them experience this. So that's what I did. You know, I talked to the director, director of Freedom Alliance, talked to the president of Freedom Alliance. I said listen, I said I love everything that you guys are about, everything that you're doing and I want to be a part of it. I want to volunteer, I don't want any money, I don't want anything, I just want to be able to contribute and I will start doing more than the one time a year where the guys would go down to Costa Rica. So I started running, I started taking combat, we ended veterans on all shore fishing trips to the Bahamas. And it was amazing, did the impact was having on these guys,

it was just like unbelievable. And for me, that was like the biggest thing because for that like year after I had just gotten out, the biggest thing I struggled with was trying to find my purpose in life again. Yeah. You know, feeling like I was just a total piece of shit and wasn't doing anything. I needed to find that sense of purpose again. And I felt like I was contributing to the mission just in a different aspect that I was

prior to that. So it was really cool to do that. And that led in, you know, doing those trips and realizing how much of a difference it was making and how much of an impact it was having on these guys. I took to the next level. I used my GI ability to go to captain's school. So I went to a 13 week captain's course and it up graduating as honor grad from that course got my US Coast Guard captain's license.

And now I've kind of found my new calling. I'm a full-time fishing guide. I started a business warrior to bass guide service. A full-time freshwater fishing guide. Targeting mainly large mouth bass. So it's what I do to put food on the table for my family now. I really enjoy it. I get to meet people from all different walks of life and provide them with lifelong memories with their family members and friends and stuff, get out of the

water. But my biggest enjoyment is I still do the volunteer work. I still take veterans. So in between all my work, I have blackout dates where I will schedule to fly veterans in to fish for two days so that they can experience that. Well, I remember I think when we met, you were still working with Freedom Alliance, and we had just started teaching together, and you invited me to go on that trip, teaching together and you invited me to go on that trip and we're bad and rosary. Venice, yeah, Venice Louisiana, yeah, and that tuna fishing excursion. And yeah, which was fucking awesome. And I really, I really trusted you.

I didn't before that. I didn't do any of that. I know because I just, I've I didn't before that. I didn't do any of that. I know, because I just, I've seen so many fucking non-profits, you know, use the veteran card in the treatment card to fucking buy some pockets. Yeah, they abused it. I know what you mean.

But you invited me and I was like, well, fuck, I mean, I had a lot of respect for you and I trusted you and we won and it was a really good fucking experience. And it wasn't, it's therapy, but it's not, it's just nice to get your fucking mind off a shit and be around some like-minded people, which is another reason I was actually a little hesitant to go is because you know, with what we used to do, there's ego's fucking run rampant and sometimes that can be pretty toxic, but that was a really good trip. And all the guys that were there, whether there was four of us and was other than the fucking cold. That was awesome. But yeah, no egos flying around. I remember telling my wife, like I was actually kind of shocked that you said yes, like I really, I knew you're kind of your outlook on, you know, some of the different benevolent

organizations and how they abused it and didn't do the right thing. And I was shocked that she came, but I was happy that you did. I mean, that's what it's all about, man, you get out there. There wasn't, you know, like I said, no, you guys run around. And even though it's not a therapy session, just by nature of what the trip is, it ends up being kind of that way. It ends up, everybody gets something out of it,

whether it's just, you know, talking to a guy that may have similar experiences that you do. And in the end, you feel like you're not alone because that dude knows exactly how the fuck you feel. Like that's a big deal. Yeah. Well, the way you structured it too, you had guys that were fresh out, you had guys that had been out for a little while, and then like I had been out for a little while. And I think that was, I think that was really good because the guys that are fresh out that it fucking seems hopeless. And then you see a guy who's been out, who's coming around and it gives you, it just

makes you realize, you know, fuck, I can overcome this shit, it's possible. You know, that guy's doing great. It gives you hope. Yeah. I can overcome this shit, it's possible. That guy's doing great. Gives you hope. Yeah, give you hope. I mean, you've done it. I mean, how many guys have we helped kind of walk through the transition and multiple different facets?

I've had guys reach out to me and they're like, look man, what do you think about this? What should I do? Guys that just don't know and kind of looking for direction, you know, guidance. And I feel like I fucking learned it all in my own. Like I went struggle through the transition. And ultimately I feel like I've had a successful transition. But if I can help anybody from going through

what I fucking went through, yeah, I want to help them, you know. It's almost like for the young Marsox guys that are coming out now or maybe they're not even young, you know, that could be fucking 40 years old. But to see a guy like you who's been there and done it and admit that you've gotten help, it makes it okay, you know, for the next, for the generations that are coming out. And I do have a question though. Do you make everybody who catches a fucking tuna, eat the heart out? Yes, that's tradition. So two things that typically happen when you catch your first tuna, you got to get in the water with it, which we didn't make you do that. But what we did make you

do is you got to eat the heart. Not the whole thing, but you at least got to take a bite. So, uh, So for those of you guys that have or have not fished aboard any of Captain Mike Ellis's boats with relentless sport fishing, there's kind of a tradition that's kind of adhered to. And at any time you catch your first yellow fin tuna, that is you will taste the blood of that tuna. So eat your heart out Sean that's it out it give you worms freedom of alliance

for level of sport fishing good stuff good job man good job That's just a tradition man that's come from years back and it's just fun, you know, and I feel like anybody in the normal state of mind would look at you and be like, yeah, that's not fucking happening. But with guys like us, it's kind of like, you got to fucking do it, you know? Yeah, well, you made me do it. I was going to finish it, but then you told me, I'm gonna get fucking worms. So, but, um, so you do that, you're able to do that now with,

with your charters. What's that? They take veterans out. And that's probably, that is probably even better, because it's a one-on-one experience. We had, you know, we had a captain and three other guys. Yeah. And then, but now you're the fucking captain

and you're the combat vet that guys can hook up to. And it's a one-on-one session. Yeah, typically the way I'll do it is I'll bite two guys, so it'll typically be two guys in myself. Yeah. Typically, the way I'll do it is I'll invite two guys. So it'll typically be two guys in myself. Okay. But you know, I just want to emphasize that this is not a for profit. These guys are not being charged when they come when they're invited, you know, I select these guys and nominate them to come down for these trips. Based on people not just random like, oh, oh, yeah, got you and you, these are people that I feel can benefit from it.

That need it. You need that reset button. What's that? You verify. Oh, absolutely. Everybody that I've taken, I know I either know or have somebody that's very close to me that knows them. Um, and this is to ensure that everybody that gets the opportunity to go on these is actually

deserving of it. But yeah, it's, you know, basically myself and two other guys and, you know, we go out and just relax and decompress and have a good time. And, you know, we catch fish, which is always a plus. But at the end of the day, it's that breaking away from the everyday stress of life and the bullshit and all that stuff and letting them kind of reconnect with old calm rats or just like you said, like mounted individuals who may have experienced similar things or similar struggles and getting them out in the water together. And, you know,

next, you know, you got two guys that may have not known each other prior to that, or they may have known of each other, but never really met, who are now lifelong friends. They made that connection, you know. Building a network. That was fucking huge. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I think that's, that's fucking awesome what you're doing.

And so who's covering the cost of taking these guys out? Well, I am basically, I'll just put money aside when I can. On my busier days, busier times a year, I'll set some money aside and I'll eat the cost. They're not paying me to take them out. It's just my boat, my gear, my time. The money that I do put forth is to cover things like airfare, lodging, food, all that stuff. So right now it's me.

So we kind of talked about this before he came up. And I mean, I just think it's fucking great that you're paying for to help and give back to the community. But I mean, in my opinion, you shouldn't be the one paying to give back to the community. So we spoke a lot about and talked a lot about business before we finally set out and got you on the show. And so you can donate to Nick on Vemmo and PayPal

and anything that gets donated goes to the next set of veterans that you're gonna help help to a therapeutic fishing retreat. And we get questions all the time, it's going to lead on how can I help the veterans? How can I help the veterans? How can I help the guys coming back home? What can I do to give back to them? Well now's your chance. Next doing the dirty work, not dirty work,

but next doing the good work. And he's a great role model for the guys coming home and he's got a lot of good advice. And the more money you donate to what's your handle? So you can find me at a warrior to bass, guide service. It's spout the name warrior, the number two, and then bass. You can find me on Instagram, you can find me on Facebook, or you can go to my website, warriortobass.com.

So all those proceeds get veterans out there and you've got a fine example of somebody who's had a successful transition so check out Warrior 2 bass although I think it should be Warrior 3 bass but fucked up. So I want to kind of wrap this thing up here Nick I just want to say it's been a real fucking honor to have you said in that chair across from me. And, um, you know, your fucking service record is amazing. I've worked with a lot of different operators from all different branches, especially when I was at CIA. I worked with all of them and I got to tell you

if I could go back and operate with somebody that I didn't get to before you would be fucking top of my list dude and I don't say that shit to burn many people but here's the solid by the fun. I appreciate that man. It feels mutual. I knew that from the time when we started teaching together, and doing the training and whatnot, I always thought to myself, man, we could have

fucking wrecked some shit if we were deployed together. All right. You're damn right. But all right, check out Warrior 2 Bass on Instagram. And best of luck love to it man. Thanks brother, I appreciate you having me on the show. It's been a while. Cheers. you. you Find suitable mental health medications can be a challenge.

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The Bullwork Podcast focuses on political analysis and reporting without partisan loyalties. Real sense of day jubu sprinkled on our PTSD. So things are going well, I guess. Every Monday through Friday, Charlie Sykes speaks with guests about the latest stories from Inside Washington and around the world. You document in a very compelling way. All of the positive things have come out of this, but it also feels like we have this massive hangover.

No shouting or grandstanding. Principles over partisanship. The Bullwalk Podcast. Wherever you listen. No shouting or grandstanding. Principles over partisanship. The Bullwalk Podcast. Wherever you listen.