Shawn Ryan Show - #41 Kyle Morgan - Delta Force Operator

Episode Date: November 24, 2022

Kyle Morgan brings us on his journey from his childhood to the world's most elite and secretive special operations unit known as "Delta Force". On 20 November 2015, Islamist militants took 170 hostages killing 20 of them in a mass shooting at the Radisson Blu hotel in Bamako, the capital city of Mali. Kyle was one of the sole responders and was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for his actions that day. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://www.mudwtr.com/shawn (USE CODE SHAWN) https://www.bubsnaturals.com (USE CODE SHAWN) https://prepwithshawn.com/ https://meetfabric.com/shawn https://www.patreon.com/VigilanceElite Kyle Morgan Links: https://www.instagram.com/kylemorganactual/ https://blubearingsolutions.com/ Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website - https://www.shawnryanshow.com Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/VigilanceElite TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnryanshow Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shawnryan762 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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at WoodhouseChristlerGeepDodge.com. It's that time of year, everybody. It is that time of year to get with your families, with your in-laws, and have that wonderful dinner. Thanksgiving dinner. No politics, no religion, no arguing ever, right? Just kidding. I just want to wish you all a happy Thanksgiving,

and we brought a very special episode to you this year for Thanksgiving. Kyle Morgan, he's a former Delta boy, Delta Force operator. Kyle has done one of the most heroic acts that I have ever had the pleasure, not the pleasure, the honor to listen to on the Sean Ryan show. He saved a lot of people by entering a hotel by himself who's being shot up by bad guys. Ladies and gentlemen, this show started out

showing you the tough transitions that war fighters do going from fighting wars into the civilian population. And Kyle, at the time recording this, had only been out for 44 days. You're going to see exactly what it looks like when a war fighter comes home from war and tries to reintegrate into civilian life. You're going to see that he can't hold a single thought. He can't wrap his head around a single subject.

And you're going to see him relive events. It's going to be all over his face, especially when we get to the hotel, the trauma that that caused. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Kyle Morgan to the Sean Ryan show. Kyle Morgan. Welcome to the show, man. Yeah, Sean, thanks for having me. My pleasure. We've been going back and forth for what, like six months now. Yeah, and finally got you in here. Yeah. I had a couple of good conversations, but so brief introduction, 20 years in Army, most of which is special operations work, almost all combat time. Your service is incredible.

Some of your awards distinguish service cross for extraordinary heroism. Five bronze star medals, one with valor, US Department of State Bureau of Diplomatic Security Certificate of Heroism, Military Freefall with bronze star combat, three presidential unit citations, two maritalious unit citations, defense, maritalious service medal, maritalious service medal, six army good good contact metals and the list goes on That's a hell of a career man, but um

So we're gonna cover your whole life story Starting with childhood, but first Well, we start with a gift And he guesses what's in the box, man. Uh, I hope it's donuts. Donuts? Damn. They're better, I hope they're better. I hope they're better. Donuts in your shoes.

Um, no, thank you very much. The guests would be, yeah, donuts and maybe, um, um, some gummy bears. I don't know. Finally, somebody watches the show that's a maybe Finally somebody watches the show that's on here. No, it's like nobody ever guess. No one knows I'm not really good at just open the opening just rip it open Oh, yeah, there you go Dude Better than donuts man made right here in the USA. Thank you very much.

Yeah, you're welcome. Well, thank you for the flag. Yeah, that's gonna look good in the frame, though. Yeah, thanks for letting me like get it to you and then sign it and... It means a lot to me. So that flag is the blue-bearing solutions as the company I started and you know being proactive with my retirement and transition.

That flag is, I jumped it for the first time I haven't jumped in two years since I have my neck used and you know I'm going to retire here with you. So I jumped it, signed it and now it's yours. We'll be framed up hanging in the studio proudly. But man I'm just I'm real excited for this interview. You know you so you have started your training company Bluebearing Solutions. started your training company, Bluebearing Solutions. Your 44 days out of the military, I believe that makes you the most relevant man in the training space, whether you like to hear that or not, you're the most current.

And I know you're really, you have a part of gold and you wanna help with this active shootership that's been going on. And we just had another one last night, Memphis, all over the city. And so let's start off talking about that. You know, you think there's a solution to this. And it's it is happening more and more and more. Some people want to take the guns away. They think that's the solution.

Some people think arm and teachers a solution. What's Kyle's solution? I think empowering people and not just to bear arms. The gun is a tool and it can be used for good to defend and protect and it can also be used for these atrocities that have been happening since Columbines since 1999, where our children are being taken from us and they are by definition innocent, innocent in a sense. They cannot protect themselves nor should they have to in that sense, they cannot protect themselves, nor should they have to, in that sense,

like we need to create an environment that we as American society have had. And the fact is, it's a societal change that needs to happen. Taking ownership of the fact that it isn't how it used to be, and thank God this isn't an organized terrorist group that's been conducting these attacks because we wouldn't be ready for it as a society. Like we're not even ready for it. And the biggest thing that we can do, it's not a solution. It's a societal change.

It's impacting our youth and then developing and protecting them to become contributing members of our society and then their kids. Like what we can do right now is, and what I can do, and what I'm doing is showing people that you can make a difference. One person can make all the difference in taking action, absorbing one fraction of that attacker's bandwidth to focusing on you, well, and the sooner that you can do that, and then never the pursuit of that and then once that happens you hold on to it like imagine and put yourself into the

Children's feet and eyes Like you take that from them. Yeah, if you are a protector Because a lot of people think that they're protectors and they're just providers a lot of people think that they're protectors and they're just providers. To truly protect is to do both. Like provide and to protect and to use overwhelming force if you need to. And I don't want to create and look for fights

and that's not the life I'm living anymore. But I also know that I will step and take that from anyone's child. And I will put that burden onto me. And I know that I will continue to pursue and never letting go of that. Because all it takes is now they're focusing a fraction of their bandwidth on you.

And oh shit, where did they come from? What are they doing? What are they gonna do? For one, they may just off themselves right away. And the statistics are there. Like if you look at the incidents that have happened and then as the results of them and through who intervened and then how long it was going, the results of them and through who intervened

and then how long it was going, reducing the amount of time for them to go unadultered. They have the upper hand, but with building your confidence in that you can do something. And if that's something something is just getting between good and evil, like you'll be able to rest at night. And if you're in if the tomorrow problem is that you're in jail for acting, well, then that's a that's a bigger societal issue we have, isn't it? But I'll be in jail or dead in heaven, you know, and those are tomorrow problems.

Yeah, but right then it's just empathy, it's compassion. So you think it's for others. You think that the solution to this is basically a cultural change. If it's a massive cultural change, it needs to adopt this concept. Taking some ownership of it, the fact that we can't just ignore this. Ignorance is not bliss. And how many more of these have to happen

before we, because we are powerful. We as a collective can make, and we have. If you look at our society, we have done some amazing things as the American culture. And I'm so proud to be an American, and it's not that it's gone. It just needs to be stoked. There's one thing we have in common,

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Policy issued by Southern Life Assurance Company, not available in certain states, prices subject to underwriting and health questions. All right, let's get back to it. One of the things that I see in today's culture is everybody. Everybody's just looking for somebody to blame. Nobody actually wants to take responsibility. And nobody actually, from the school boards to the parents to the politicians to the people.

You know, what I see a lot of answers are is instead of the parents actually learning maybe some things that they could adopt to improve their kids' chances of survival if that wasn't happened. Like I did a video that was like five things that you can do. You know, if there was an active shooter. And but what I see the parents doing is they want to hire a security guard. They are legitimately willing to bet their kids life on somebody that they're going to

pay $13 an hour for. And that's their solution. They think that somebody that's being paid $13 an hour is gonna jump in front of the bullet that's heading right for their kid's face. And that's not gonna happen. You know, because, and I think that people are just too busy or they think that their priorities aren't there. Well, there's a somebody else's job

to teach my kid this stuff. This is somebody else's job to protect. That's your fucking job. No, that's your fucking kid. You're safety and security and of what you care about and who you care about is on you. Yeah. And like, there's all kinds of like,

people wanna throw tools or resources or a bill, a policy, like, they'll take the guns, give them guns, like to me it's like let's strip all that away and just focus on the fact that like get back to center of what it is to be a protector, like truly in your household and then if you think about how powerful that is to make a change, like an impact change, it's like a ripple effect. Like if you do that in your house and then that spreads you know over time, and you're spheres of influence, and then I'm doing it, and then we're building a league of protectors, right? And then we're changing the way that we think is a cultural shift.

It's not necessarily, it's not saying, because what I can't do, Kyle Morgan and Blue Bearing, is I'm not trying to lobby in politics to do this or that or the other. Like, I'm just focusing on what I can do is show people what right looks like in this space of active shooter and expose them to environments that I've been in. And with that, it's about exposure. And there's no one situation that's going to look the same. And you apply the same tactic every time. It's not. It's not. It's here.

It's mindset. That's why I do protector mindset training. Well, I mean, you're the perfect guy for the job, especially with your career and what happened to Molly. You've been through it. Yeah. The exact scenario. And that's why, like, my company, I started my company. It spelled BLU for a reason as a direct correlation with Rattis and Blue Hotel. Spelled the same way. And it's also my favorite color. And it's also for direct correlation with, as a color, with depression and sadness. And then bearing, like, at least bearing weight of the world, or bearing it all, like

new human should, but we do. And I damn sure did for a long time, and that's not for us, it's for God. And I can say that from this seat here, because I couldn't ever see that for what it was, and then how you carry yourself, your military bearing, and then a compass bearing. So if you don't know where you're going, and you're going to take you there, and I was doing that my whole life. And now I've been in the light, and on this path with a bearing, I've been shown by God.

And now it's on me to stay on that on that bearing. Yeah But to start the company it was active shooter active killer active threat Like the rat us in blue hotel that was attacked November 20th 2015 Like I was deployed in that country country but working out of the embassy, and I had been... Don't get into that yet. Sorry. Let's we'll get there.

We'll get there. I know you're dying to tell that. We'll get there. But let's start, let's go ahead and start with the interview. But let's start a little earlier than 2015. Let's start back in 1984 when you were born. Where'd you grow up? So I was born in Central Florida a little town used to Florida

probably lived there for four or five years and then we moved to upstate New York so my dad's family's from all upstate New York and then all my mom's family's from Florida But as a young adolescent I mean we moved in New York and then all my mom's family's from Florida. But as a young adolescent, I mean, we moved, I don't know, 10 to 15 times, by the time I left for, you know, when it's time to turn 18. We'll kind of stuff we're getting to growing up.

So I couldn't sit, I never could sit still. I was always like climbing on the window seals from the way that my mother used to explain it. Yeah, imagine that, but he was a very, I did a lot of organized sports that was my football, baseball, basketball, like from, as soon as I could, so from five years old. So I enjoyed like the team aspects of those and

but then this stability piece which just wasn't there as far as moving around so I can never really plant my feet and like figure out who I was and who I wanted to be and yeah, so I was and who I wanted to be. Yeah, so I was a young adolescent. I just, you know, when I was younger and then when things got a little harder with academia and I was just like struggling, you know,

so I started acting out and, you know, looking for attention and it was easier because we'd go from one school to another and I'd be the new guy or whatever and I could just start over. But that played into a lot about, you know, the, the 10th grade in high school, I think I got kicked off the ball team because of my GPA. I got too low, below like a 2.0 and I was just like, okay, right of that. So I just started like, I guess football is not going to happen. I mean, that was my passion.

And so then I just started, you know, focusing on all the things that were instant like gratification and, you know, oh, you like me, don't you? Yeah, I'm cool. That was my sense of self. Like I had been nurtured in an environment where like no one showed me. I wasn't developed like by a positive male role model or or female. It was very chaotic and well, how? Like you never, never, this stability piece like creates chaos in itself. And then, you know, that with, like, just the normalization of behaviors.

And, you know, I just watched and was either a part of my mother abused my father and my father just verbally, physically would drink himself into just to isolate himself in the garage or whatever. And it was just like, to me, I just saw that as what he just doesn't want to be here. And the one thing I will say is he never left. He put up with all of that. And it was just so just raged in or just jealousy and codependency

and all these things that I just, no, I'm not you, this is me. I've been 38 years later, I'm looking back with the lens I've been shown and are put on. And, you know, it's in hindsight. I mean, it's not for a child to have to make sense of that shit, you know, and it's unfair, but it also is just a part of my story. And it's, but I will say I live my life even as a young father.

Well, no, you guys don't have it this bad. You don't have it that bad. I don't know what bad is. And that's just not a way to parent. And I feel like I held my head for minimizing my own behavior in front of them. You know, and that's the part where I really, like, I really want to change that, you know, that narrative, that break those generational like norms in my legacy, and I can, and I am. Were you into hunting or what, girls?

Those about it. Yeah, yeah, that was like my- Girls and booze. Yeah, that was like my girls and booze. Yeah, that was it man And I say that loosely because are not loosely, but I guess like It was my sense of self was oh you think I'm good looking or I look how good I did you know because I was physically fit and Those were like the those were the escapes, you know, for me to say,

well, I'm just a scared little boy inside, afraid of his own shadow. You know, there's a lot of people growing up in the world like that, you know, with a dysfunctional family, moving around a lot. And there's gonna be a lot more now that Roe vs. Wade has been overturned, you know, it's gonna be a lot of kids and poverty. So looking back, you know, if it's yourself,

do you have any advice for kids that are growing up in a situation that's similar or worse than yours? Yeah, you're not alone, period. Like, there is positive role models out there that want to show you and to hold your hand through your developmental phase. It's just more people like myself and then I'm trying to become, and to hold your hand through the your developmental phase. It's just more people like myself

and then I'm trying to become, need to step up and just take ownership of that as well. Because like, there's obviously my children that I have to change and work through, but I can also be there for their friends and their friends of friends. And that's the opportunities that I have now.

And I'm just so grateful for it because I can focus on it. My priorities, it's a complete shift of, I've been so focused for 20 years on combating terrorism abroad. There's a lot of work to do here and so of our borders, and that's what I'm focused on Yeah, it starts at the household. It starts at like Positive male role models like we don't have those anymore So are you saying these kids need to seek out a positive male role model? It's not on them. It's like us Well, I'm saying for the kid. Yeah, like they just know that there's there is there is good people out there and and what you're like, it's not on them, like the environments

that they're raised in, in a situation like, I don't blame children for growing up in mudhuts and radical extremism. I don't blame them. I don't blame childrens that are growing up in poverty and around drugs and alcohol and abuse and they are the definition of innocence. Yeah, make they are. At a certain point, that becomes their reality, right?

Like, that's an in-day step into society and that's just their reality, right? Like that's an, and then they step into society and that's just their reality. But for me, it's about challenging other male role models to step up and like seek out these, this is our societal, if we wanna make it, be a good example. Be a good example. And that's just like showing people what right looks like. Yeah. Like that's it. It doesn't mean

you gotta have this many volunteer hours at this or that. It's just when opportunities present themselves, see them for what they are. And, and, um, realize that the impact that you can have is, realize that the impact that you can have is profound. And you can't measure it. And it's not like quantifiable. So you just do it early and often. And I think as a, that's how you impact change. And but to the children in those situations is like, like this is the greatest country

in the world to grow up into, to be a part of, and don't let the circumstances that you've been presented with define you as a person, as a young adolescent. Well, I think you're a perfect example of, you don't have to live there forever. You know, there are a lot of kids feel trapped, you know, that they're not ever going to get out of that, but there are ways out of it. In your perfect example, I mean, you operated it at the highest level possible. So, so at what point did U.S. military become,

when did you become interested in that? So I think it's probably my, between my junior and going into my senior year high school, like I wasn't gonna, I got sat down by a teacher that like saw, he saw something in me and the potential I wasn't going to, I got sat down by a teacher that like saw, he saw something in me and the potential or, you know, the opportunity to like develop someone, you know, youth.

And he took, it was very like a, I don't know, I just remember it now because it meant a lot to me. And I couldn't remember a lot about my past for a long, long time. But he was a positive male role model, that isn't your biological parent. And he also served in the Ranger Regiment. And I remember him showing me a photo of doing some

like small, unattackic training and stuff. I mean, I didn't know what it was back then. I was like, oh, that looks so cool And now I'm like, I'm in that cool, but But it was like in the 90s or what are it? Yeah, just like blue red yellow smoke, you know this and that in the woods But as a young kid, I was like wow, that's like really cool and It and it was I mean like the fact that that's like really cool. And it was. I mean, like the fact that he shared that and then he wasn't trying to get me to join the military. I was interested in listening to his stories and, but he sat me down. I was like, hey man, like you're not going to graduate if you, if we don't like write this path.

So he set me on to a path and I mean, I was like, I had to catch up on a bunch of classes. I just kept like blowing off and either failing or whatever. But he put me on that trajectory, like in a short amount of time, my senior year, towards the end of my junior year and then senior year and then 9-11 happened

2001 and I Remember I was in you know the classroom. I was in and and and it was just such a like Of this role like feeling and it's a real To see that towers, you know the first one and then the second one get hit and then go down. It was just like, this isn't real. You know, even as a younger, I was 17 and I was like, what was happening, you know, and I mean, but it was, I mean, obviously, it was our reality. And I talked with him a little bit, but I went and talked to the Army Recruiter and then December, I went to MEPS

and did all the, and Tampa, because I went back to Florida for high school and signed up at 17 in the delayed entry program. And my mother had to sign as my sooner 18. So it was contingent on that I graduated. And then I turned 18 and I left two weeks later for basic training. So did you know you wanted to go into special operations?

No, I joined, I didn't know anything about like who was what and what units were this and that and the other, but for some reason the 82nd Airborne I had heard of, you know, it's America's Guard of Honor. It's a very rich in culture and history from World War II. And that's what I signed up for was an airborne contract that brought me to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, right away. So as soon as I finished infantry school and jump school and been in Fort Benning, Georgia, I went, I reported a brag in the end of 2002. And yeah, so I mean just completely wet by in the years man. I didn't know. I was just like a little punk, you know.

Yeah. And I got humbled all the time. I had no fun. I'm bad. And yeah, it was a, I remember the platoon I showed up to and I was the only new guy for a long time, so I like ate it all as far as the hazing and... Well, before we get into your time at the 80s, let's take a quick break. I used to live in Florida and when I lived in Florida I learned a very valuable lesson going through hurricane after hurricane after hurricane after hurricane and that lesson is do not wait for the last minute to get the emergency type items that you need because they are not going to be there because guess who else is looking for that. Everyone else around you, everybody on the planet. So I invested

in some long-term emergency food with my patronage supply. This is a one-month supply. This food last for 25 years. Doesn't go bad for 25 years. You just keep it somewhere safe. Hold onto it. And then when things like 2020 happened, the food shortages, the next hurricane, maybe a tornado, any kind of emergency. Guess what, while everybody else is scaring around,

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currently offering a 20% discount on their popular three-month emergency food kit. Go to prepwithshon.com right now and grab your 20% savings off each three-month kit you need. That's prepwithshon.com. Alright Kyle, we're back from the break. You're joining the army, you get to boot camp. Basic training. Basic training. Whatever they call it over there. What was that like?

What a shock. It was like the, you show up, you know, they shave your head, you get, and there's a line for everything. Get in line. You just get indoctrinated. And that's the point, I think, to following orders and building, to see if you can cut it. And I really thrived in that space

I really thrived in that space because as much as I wanted or was acting out as an adolescent as a teenager, I mean, I got arrested twice before I was 18. What? I totally forgot about that, but yeah, you forgot that you got a... Yeah. Would you get arrested for it? One was like shoplifting. What'd you steal? Like a tie from like a department store

and like one of the testing bottles of Cologne. Oh yeah. On a dare. On a dare? Yeah, it was like, oh, I bet you can't, but you can't walk out with that. And I was like, shit. I walked out with it. And then this guy was like was like hey man. I'm gonna need my stuff back. I was like what stuff?

And I was just like oh so it took me in and and I was like 1617 it was like back then out man and the other time it was We got pulled over and we were we skipped school and we're partying and stuff and drinking and Yeah, underage drinking and I had like a fake ID that I made Because in Florida, I'm not gonna get into that but no, let's get into it. So we can't do it anymore. So your graphic artist is 16 years old 16 is just resourceful. Nice. And I would like to sell them.

Okay. Oh, you're only made a business. Yeah, a little business. I forgot about that. Entrepreneur. Looking for ways to make money to party, you know, and be cool. Because what is the fake ID go for them Florida back in the like the nine two thousand. This was in late 90's, 2000's.

Yeah. So it only worked if it was a kind of a limited model but if you had if you were born in 84 I Could turn the four into a one and it's in two places on the ID and then I would basically photocopy So I erased before to where like with a racer and then Cut out a photocopy of a one like the same someone's idea that was born to 81 and then like use packaging tape or whatever and put that over it and then and place it correctly and then you could with warm water you could rub the white

or the white off paper off and then let it dry and then it'll be it'll have the adhesive again and then place it over. So it wouldn't pass like a it wouldn't it would get you into clubs like that would get your old and like dancing like underage or yeah but you still couldn't like drink, but it would allow me to go and fit in and stuff with older, I had like older, older crowd friends and stuff and I wanted to be able to hang out. So yeah, and that led to, I had to like,

I didn't even know where a colonel was. Like, at No6, like I had to do, they had to do a waiver to get me in. And I had to like tell them, like, talk to them, you know, and explain to them why, why should he should let me join the army, you know, and I tell you to forget about that. But yeah, like, I was like, who is this? And why do I have to, what? And I was like, okay, and I talked to him and while I convinced him, and you know, it, it, it, I mean, you give me one second on that. Where was I going with that?

There was another element of, you wouldn't have gotten in the army, had it not been for that colonel that gave you basically a second chance. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And like, I was supposed to be joining with my cousin, like, we were, we both signed up together, but he couldn't, he couldn't score high enough on the Asvab to get a bonus, right? And this is what good recruiters do.

They had me take his ass bag for him. He was shitting me. Like I feel like his name. And like, and then I scored high enough again to where he, so he could get a bonus. So he did the whole like, right, raise your hand thing and the delayed entry and then never left. Like, he didn't graduate high school and just like went on whatever path he went on. So then it was just me.

But yeah, there was a lot of things. Like, yeah, there's a lot of pivotal points that just worked out in your favor. Yeah, worked out. Yeah. I mean, there's been a lot of that going on just riding the wave of all of those. But now I'm taking ownership and taking control of my own life in my own actions. Yeah. And that's really it.

And the rest is for, for God. Yeah. Which is really got in. You got in. You're at the 82nd Airborne. What's that like? Check it in.

Where is that? Fort Bragg. That's correct. Yeah. Your whole career, Bragg? Basically, yeah. Yeah, there wasn't much time. I mean, it was there and not there.

I mean, I got there and it was just awful for one. It was the barracks were like, they weren't the World War II barracks, but they were the old barracks, man. You could still smoke in them and shit, and everyone smoked cigarettes for some reason. I was like, was this like a thing? It's like marble, cowboy killers. I was just like, well, I just want to fit in. So I was so stressed out.

I remember how I got thought about going AWOL, like because it was, for one, there was a lot of systemic, like, just cultural racism and things that I just wasn't used to. Like, I was just like, what is this? And, you know, if I had something to say against it, man, I paid for it. And, because they would use the rank in this and that, and everyone outranked me.

So it was just like, go smoke him. Smok, scuff, auto scuff, you know? And I was, like, physically strong, auto scuff, you know. And I was physically strong, so they couldn't necessarily break me. And so there was a lot of racism when you went there. And you stood up to her. And I first, yeah. Like when I first, they crushed you for it.

Yeah, like, there was, it really was off-putting to me. And it should be, but it was like hit by it where it caught me off-guard. I was like, what is this? That wasn't all of them, but the squad I went to, specifically in the platoon. There was elements of it, and it was, I was like, ugh. And, but I was also, like, trying to figure out who I am as an adult, you know, young adult, 18. And, you know, I physically, like, they would,

I'd have my back to the door, like holding it closed every day, like in a squad meeting. They'd be chained, smoke, and cigarettes, and just laughing, and, you know, doing whatever. And I'd be in the iron chair holding a kevlar, any chand upside, you know, upside down. And they would just be putting shit in it, and taking it out, asking me trivia. Like, and if I got it wrong, they would put more shit in it and taking it out, asking me trivia. Like, and if I got it wrong, they would put more shit in it.

But I would be there for waiting on the word for hours at a time. Yeah. And I mean, it was like, and I remember one time I went home because I would drive back to Florida just to get away. Like eight hour drive, like on a weekend, a like eight hour drive like on a week a regular weekend so like a Friday release and then come got to be their first formation or you know an hour before that formation and whatever so I'd be there I would just drive straight through and this one time I remember them like

calling me hey we need you to show up at this detail. And it was like a shoot shakeout detail like that last minute, it was on a Saturday. And I was like, hey, Sergeant, Sergeant, I'm not North Carolina. I'm a Florida. And they were like, oh, really? Okay. Well, I'm not just enjoy your, basically, the way I remember it was like,

enjoy your weekend, but we got something for when you get back. And I remember that day vividly, which I don't remember a lot about just through physical and psychological trauma. It's like, but that is very vivid to me because I, I got back it like four in the morning and the squad leader staff sergeant like stayed overnight waiting on me. They had a home off post, you know, and this is his life, you know, and basically every, I got smoked, like scuffed up or I don't even know what you call that like corrective like punishment or whatever For a good 36 hours No, sure, where I was like I can't I was doing like

you know, I couldn't and Yeah, and but for what though, like Bill Character? Yeah. Now, I don't think it really Bill Character, I think what it did do for me is it showed me what a leader is and isn't. And it started to. It was like the first cusp of, well, this is what leading is.

And being in charge, right? Like, being in charge is a title. Like, I could throw a title on you, like, whomever. And that doesn't mean that you know how to lead. So that's why I've been very focused on, like, at its core, it's about communication and compassion for others to lead. Yeah, it just is. Like there's a time to take charge and be in charge, and lead, excuse me.

In those situations, where decisions need to be made. But that's where I viewed and always sought out, like there's got to be something out higher, better, you know, and I think very quickly, you know, we went to Iraq and June of 2003 with the 82nd. Yeah, and I Realized pretty quickly when I'm like getting off the damn airplane and we're like locked and loaded man doing all these like Smirols to get into the biop and they had just like you know set up and I was like oh man we're getting in it right right as soon as we get the ground and I'm like oh here here it comes were you excited did you want it yeah I was excited yeah I was

like yes and uh I mean I'm scared I was like oh I don't know but there were so many of us I was like oh we got this and they know what they're doing. And then we, they land in the ramp lowers and it's the freaking 82nd Airborne Division band. Huh, huh, huh. Shit, the hell out there. I was like, are you shitting me? How was it? Wait a minute. You mean the band beat us here?

Like, what? What is going on? It was just like, I was, I was really taken back from that. And I was like, okay was really taken back from that. And I was like, okay, we're, okay. Report over there. And it was like this tent that didn't have any, didn't even have the walls.

It was just like a tent, no AC, like none of that. Man, it was 140 degrees, man. And I just remember doing the acclamation for two weeks where you're just laying in sweats or pools of sweat in these cats and it just looks like human so that's just like when you stand up from it It was just and just like the ice they would the moments of a pre if you know like They would bring in these big ice blocks like from wherever and you'd just like,

like try to like hug it, you know, and it was hot. And yeah, and then we got pushed to or the base that we were gonna take over and it was this old chicken factory in Momodia, Yusufia, and that's when shit started getting real. And you know, that's the part where I think I saw so many other things and we did so many different things as an infantry battalion in that space that in support of other different

elements and special operations. And I didn't know. I was just like, who the hell is that? and that space that in support of other different elements and special operations, and I didn't know. I was just like, who the hell is that? Who's that? Why did they look like that? And I'm like, I wanna see what they're doing. Because I also realize like, man, nobody knows what the fuck you're doing.

You know, like in the earlier stage of the war, it was just like, we're like ratchet strap and Emory box is full of fucking rocks and sand and shit Took on cargo. Home V's is armor to roll around no shit to roll around to just react to contact like what what's our mission? Yeah, just reacts contact or You're just like nine dudes in a home V just waiting to get stitched up and Re-rollin out in Convoys or was it just one of you are a petuned convoys just rolling out our areas of Responsibility or whatever but it was legitimately like fishing

So for re-reli bait just like what are we doing? How did you I mean that it's just like, what are we doing? How did you, I mean, at that young age, in a conventional unit, I mean, did that strike you as, I don't know if we should be doing this shit. Oh, yeah, there was moments of that where I was just like, hmm, I mean, you see things and then you're a part of them and then you're like,

I don't really understand that. And if they can't explain the why, like, would they try to explain the one? Sometimes, and sometimes they wouldn't, sometimes like, because this is what we do. And I'm like, but I just would take note in my head. And I'm like, just like, when I first showed up, like, okay, Roger that. Yeah. And I use that to help build, like, my up, like, okay, rush that. Yeah. And I used that to help build, like, my own, like, sense of duty and how to act and operate. And it's continued to, like, never really conforming to what we just do it without someone explaining.

And I remain curious about it. And I think that that's a massive part of why I was able to accomplish the things I accomplished. I mean, I'm genuinely fascinated and conventional, how conventional units work because I never had the opportunity to work in a conventional unit, once straight straight into soft. So are they? I've worked with conventional units, but I've never been in one are they at all open to new ideas? I think just like any

Any organization that's still an organization in the military like a conventional or not like Through 20 years of what we've been doing, like they had to evolve. And because even when we were training, train up for that first deployment, I was doing inner and clear trench, man. Like Bangalore torpedoes, you know, Constina wire and like getting down and like clearing

by fire with like two people online like being on the road. Yeah, I mean, it was like, we've, it's evolved and it had to because it's, it's trial or fire. Like you have to all those things that you did before that maybe worked for you in the past or was this like, garrison mindset of like, well, you gotta be crisp and roll your sleeves up and they look really good on your arms, man. But like, it's not, there's a balance between discipline and military bearing and culture

and accomplishing the missions being asked of you and to truly be able to do those as a conventional force or unconventional, we've had to adapt. And I think that the units that are successful and the divisions and the cores and the, you know, they're successful because they had the ability to do that eventually, you know. And I'm being critical of this was in 2003, man. Like, yeah, I mean, it was the Wild Wild West.

It was like, no one knew like who's who, what's going on? There's all these things that we've just gotten so accustomed to in on the battlefield. Like from like, that's where I believe that we, as a country in a fighting force are the most lethal and effective fighting force on this planet, as, as, as, as military power is concerned, like, to be able to pick up and flex a division, the 82second Airborne Division, even as a deterrent from like an international like from war, you know, and just by maneuvering a force, that's power, that's military power. And we have that. And that's not taken lightly across the globe.

So I think that it's using that as a way to deter war. Sometimes, and the respect that we have across the country is because it's found in blood and mistakes and failures and never losing sight of that. How many soldiers are you deploying with? I mean, it was like a task force. So like our, I'd say a brigade is what, three or each three battliens,

I think if there's, I don't know, four, it was 500 or something, so soldiers in each shot. 500? So each company is like 100, and there's four or five companies in a battalion. Holy shit, so you deployed with like 2000 people. Yeah, it was like a third brigade task force,

and then all the supporting elements, and that's where you get into like battle space owners and you know like truly owning like and and more like owning battle spaces and that really comes into play as I as I progressed through my career and understanding and so having that at least even having the exposure to it, maybe if I couldn't make sense of it back then, it helped me understand it more eventually as I'm trying to operate in that environment. So deploying with 2000 plus soldiers, I mean, that I think I understand why conventional units are not so open-minded and they don't want to hear new ideas because that would be 2000 new ideas

come their way. No, I understand that. No mechanisms in place and organizations and that's why there's all these different selections and you want something different, go push yourself to see if you can cut it and then fit in and adapt to it. Because you can't just say, well, I just, because it goes back to the person that's asking why, like, why? And then, and then they're just so like, well, they couldn't explain why. So I'm just going to mother fuck them. And, but you're not doing anything to better yourself or getting yourself, maybe it's something you can't change. Then you push yourself to be the best, to make the most impact you can. And that's kind of what I did is I looked for, there was, I was like, there's got to be more, there's more out there. I know there is I saw it and I and that first trip. I was like there's people out there

like what are they doing and and That's where you know it's there's a ton of different jobs that you can do and before we get into what they're doing Where you want to go and where you went? what are you actually doing in the 82nd? What is the mission? How much combat did you see? What's the opt-empo? How is the leadership?

I really wanna explore, and what that first combat deployment with the conventional unit was like. So I got back from that Iraq trip And so I got back from that Iraq trip in April of 2004 and I wanted to travel for Ranger school. That's right. And because I knew that it was a way for me to get to a smaller element or, you know, as an E3, you know, I went to the 82nd Airwarns, like pre-ranger, and they have

a whole like order merit list, and I think I got like second on it as an E3, and it was a big deal, and then when I was going to go to leave for ranger school, I met Erica, my wife, and I was 19 still, but I was at a club in Murdo Beach on a weekend and I had a thick ID and I was drinking in the club and you know like that changed everything for me and I was like well for one she like she kind of ghosted me after that. So, because she was like, first of all, a military and he's 19, red flags everywhere. I think I asked her to like the military or ball

that we were gonna have coming back. Military ball, she didn't go. And I left for under school and I got back. And I, you know, that into that summer and I had my phone and I had voicemail from her. And it was like, hey, I've been thinking about you and I was like, oh shit. So she lived in like Western with Canana, but I just started, I fell in love, like very, very quickly and started instant father, like I started raising my, my, her son is my own and he was the three when we were

dating and and then she got pregnant in January. And then we got married or no, we got married and then she got pregnant. Yeah. Well, following year. So like, you know, I did, I was supposed to be going to do this that and the other after I was at EIB, I was gonna go to sniper school and they were like grooming me to, and I went to batai and scouts.

So then I was like, this is really cool. Like we got to jump in during training and before everyone else, smaller elements, like, you know, reconnaissance type stuff. And, but I also was like, I was like, I'm not going to miss the birth of my first child, Kyle. So my priorities, it was just like nope so I just for a moment I was like no I'm not I'm not gonna continue to to be away and you know during that period and um so I was doing anything I could to like

and I went to um the Old Guard That's so I went to the old guard for what is the old guard. It's the the they do like the changing of the guard or the the guard the two men and soldiers are like all the military honor stuff in Arlington. But it was a way for me to get out of the 82nd and know that I'm going to be there for the birth for Kyle's birth. And I went, I was there for 11 months. She was born, I went to selection from there, I went to SFS from there. Well hold on, yeah, hold on, you're getting way ahead of me. What was like, let's go back to your first deployment with the 82nd. What are you guys doing?

Are you seeing any combat? Yeah. No, it was, um, it has the first time I saw, like, death, you know, and like, from combat, you know, just other than just maybe a feminine or that passed away or whatever, like to see death and to be a part of it. What did you see? Like us maneuvering and killing people and then like some of my mates, you know, being pulled out of home to use and lifeless. And yeah, so it was,

there was a lot that happened. That whole trip was a lot period. Do you want to go into it? I think it's... I think the first time I... There was two... There was two big moments. I think it was when...

We were maneuvered on somebody that was either it was an ambush position and we were able to flank through and kill them. It was just like that. It was almost like it got intimate, but only when we were like clearing through that objective, that small objective, you know, and it was just like a snapshot. I was like, oh, what is this? This is okay. And then like when I first saw one of our own being pulled out of a home bee, you know, lifeless and dead, like just dead. I was just like, it was like looking at both ends of the good and the bad or the good and evil, you know,

and see it. It was very, it was confusing. In that space I was in my own development. What was confusing? Like it was like conflicting, right? Like the good guys died too, you know? And then the bad guys died and the reality set. The reality piece of it, just really, yeah, the reality was not, it became like a reality that just punches you in your heart and your face, you know, and...

Yeah. What were the SF guys doing? Is that who you're right into over there? There was a bunch of different elements, but we supported them on a couple missions, and I remember them, and they were the some of the funner ones, or I say funner, just more thrilling. and I remember them, and they were the, some of the funner ones, or I say funner, just more thrilling. I was definitely addicted to the thrill of all of it, you know, and the, like, the risk, you know, I think I was, well, I know I was a risky risk taker, a thrill seeker, and it started to feed into that. And I was like, man, this is cool, Where it's not like so because there was some times where it was just monotonous

where we're just like, I'm struggling to stay awake on on a guard, you know, in the friggin' the towers and stuff that we just kind of threw up. And we would just get mortared or rocketed every friggin' And, but, you know, there'd be loils at night, where you're just looking through that one, two, you know, or whether it was 14 or seven, Delta's, I don't know, but, uh, Hey, man, you just like, all right. Just, uh, just fighting it.

But, uh, yeah, there was this, it was 18, 19. I was 19. I turned 19 over there. And I came, like I said, I came back after that trip. We'd, I mean, I came back after that trip. We, we, I mean, the... I can't even remember so much of it. It's like, I mean, I can, but accessing it is like, I haven't thought about it.

It's definitely formative, like, years and not just, I mean, it is for anyone at age, period. Like that time frame of your life is important. I mean, it is like, there you go. Seeing that stuff right off the bat like that, senior, you know, your boys die and killing at 19 years old. Yeah. It definitely is. It definitely is. It definitely is.

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And not the 82nd wasn't. It was just, I wanted to be a part of a smaller team and more flexibility and be more agile. And that's exactly what I did with going to Render School and then the staying, the battalion and the scout platoon, because it's just a platoon that supports the whole battalion. And then, like, you know, eventually going to,

like that next year going to SF, SFS, the Special Forces Assessment. I was like, all right, this is exactly what I wanted. Yeah, when I saw that, just how they carried themselves and selection and I was like, yeah, man. How did you apply? I think, well, I know, one of the guys that was in my team was an 18 X-ray originally and he

You know obviously went through that whole pipeline the special forces like Like to join the army from and right into that pipeline kind of thing and They do all the special operations preparations courses and stuff and then they go to SFS Well, he got road kill or you know cut. So then but he wanted to go back so he just he started really talking to me about it and I was like let's do it. So him and I went together and we both you know we go that was January of06. Yep and I got we got picked up and I Started the key course the qualification course and that was pretty long long experience, but what was what was selection like?

It was interesting. I think Like it I was very intrigued by this out of the box way of thinking. I just remember this one statement that one of the cadres made. He's standing up there and he's like, you know why I have my hands in my pockets right now? He's like, because I got pockets. And I was just like, I was enamored with that statement. I was like, it makes fucking sense. I've got pockets, like why don't I use them?

I can't put my hands in my pockets. We're not getting detonated on by somebody. I was like, it just really connected with me. I was like, you know what, I like this guy. And I also like to be challenged and, you know, in the physical and the cognitive kind of aspects and the assess and all these different testings. And, you know, and then land navigation, I just felt so at peace doing that.

Like, it was just me against the terrain and myself and the time, you know, or whatever it is. But everything just kind of quiet its down when you're out in the woods and you know making mistakes, making, you know, bearing misjudgments. And it was just kind of tied it all um, it was just, it kind of tied it all together where it was like, okay, and um, I think the piece part of it too is like the challenge of it in the, the drive was, it was just, I, I thrived in that, that, that element.

How many guys were there? How many guys showed up for selection? Roughly. Man, it was over 100 and something. Dudes. How many came out? I remember, do you like a formation where, like, if you're in this formation, you didn't make it. If you're in this formation, they start playing like the ballad of Green Berets and you like sleep the flag and shit. And well, they play a few things, but I actually like teared up. Yeah, when the ballad of Green Berets, the ballad of Green Berets played, you know, because it talks about the silver wings on your chest, you know, America's

best and, but they're not coming home. Like, you know, basically placing those wings on your, on your son's chest and like, for him to carry that torch. It was almost like this, but yeah, it was almost like this, this part of me that just knew I was gonna die in combat and that was gonna be my, like my offering, my sacrifice, my way of like escaping everything in a way that it looks like honorable or is.

It's just, there was an element of it that I'm like psychoanalyzing from back then, but it was, yeah, it was a pivotal point, I think, where that was gonna be, and I said this for a long time too, actually, where I'm gonna go down like Bon Javie Man and blaze a glory. Like that's how I'm going down. I know the way.

For years. That's the way that I thought. Oh, for a long time actually. But I would say it back then in SF, it was culturally like, well, we were barrel-chested freedom fighters, man. Like, that was like, what we are. And I needed an identity.

I yearned to be a part of something to help me feel good about myself. Was there any part of selection that you found that was, what was the toughest portion for you? I mean the team week piece I thought was really like challenging But not from a like making decisions or because things to me, even back then, I'm a very visual shapes and objects, like, oh, put this together, do this,

you have to cover this, okay, cool. Not that I wasn't stressed out, like everyone else, but then communicating that, and then being in charge for episodic, like periods where, you know, people are just followers because they just want to do just enough to like, so they don't get cut or spot reports or whatever, like, peered. And then there's people that genuinely want to give you the same amount of energy that you give them. And it's filtering through all of that during team week. I do a pretty good job of, but that was really challenging. It's working through that. Because it's like tasks that you couldn't do on your own.

Physically, you just can't. So you have to, when you're at your lowest, you know, or you just came out of a role, it's like being in a range of schools, like you're the, you get this re-invigoration of like, oh shit, crossing the blah, blah, blah, come up here and you're in charge. You're the two liter, you're the two son, here's your frigo, a mission, whatever. It doesn't matter how you slept the night before it didn't sleep or how long you moved,

you just get this, oh fuck me, this is my chance. This is because you only have so many chances. And, but then you want that balance between, like, I show up and, you know, put all my energy into it when I'm in the spotlight. But then when I'm not, I'm just a, a turd, well, yeah, turd or just freaking, you're just an anchor, right?

It's like, that's why I love the military, like, buddy system and like battle buddy, or dive buddy, like when I'm in a dive school, like, you are literally anchored to someone or a water. And when you're, it's your freaking nav dive, it's like, you get these turbo legs, dude. And you're like, and you're just dragging that person and you're like, bro, I was just yanking on the tether.

Like, let's go. But then you're that person. You're like, man, I was trying, I'm sorry. But I just, yeah, that part of finding those relationships and nurturing and developing those with other like-minded individuals has been, it's been like what I've been so passionate about, and putting the amount of energy that I would want then, or they would want me, I put that into them. And that's been really great for me

for periods of my career, and then there's been times where I've just been disappointed in my, like, what do you mean? Because then it goes back to expectations. It's like, I had this expectation of something or others had that of me, but an expectation is a recipe for resentment. It equals resentment, and resentment is the enemy.

Especially if it's something that isn't... Having goals and objectives and things you're striving for, 100%, like, but having expectations of, even yourself, you know, like, that you don't understand, and where they're coming from, like, that can be extremely unhealthy. And then you'll just never, never be good enough, right?

If you have these things that you don't even know, like who you are, and you have these resentments that start building in your own self, and then others, then you're now you're judging others. And yeah, it's, well, it's led me to this point and time right now where I'm sitting across from you and of this of sound mind and with this clarity that I have. And it's because I've been through all those things.

And it's got, I have more to do. It just looks, it just looks different, you know. So you move into the cue course. How many guys are in the Q course with you? It's a ton. There's like a whole student company slash, the Swick is a big machine. The training group, you know, is a part of special forces. And really, how many, so how many graduations, they graduate like a thousand green braze a year?

No shit. Yeah, those numbers are probably like dated but that's I remember I was like How many like it like you just said Like it's a lot every year and and they're the 1% you know and it's of the military and And they're small you know, it's a small

piece of a large you know military system. Yeah, so how many how many selections they were on a year? Do you know? There's like one a month one a month they make break twice a year or something, where there's a gap. How many selection classes go into a Q course? I don't know. I couldn't tell you. How many Q courses a year?

They're concurrent. They're going on concurrently. So like, if you start in one, you may finish in another. So they're constantly like, your cohort, cohort I think is how they did it and they've changed it so many different times now. Yeah. Like you have like a anodean Iodean is what they did when I was going through and but that was a they were kind of piloting it and seeing it. If you could like start with a team of people, an ODA, and then finish with them,

but it's through the branching off of like the different language programs and the length of time. And then if you recycle something, there's just so many aspects to the cue course, like from small and at tactics to the survival of Asian resistant stuff, and then language school, depending on which language,

like that changes the duration, and then your MOS. It's also like, I was in 18 echo, a communication sergeant, and you know, but weapons sergeant, there's an engineer sergeant, there's the medical, and those are all like, some of them are close, but they have their own criteria. So that's why it's like, there's these committees in each kind of phase, and you kind of fall through

under a committee. You go in through a committee and to successfully completing a portion of the course, and then if you have to recycle or like, Kaylee was born my 15 year old daughter, she was born during the QCourse. So I recycle, or not recycle, but I came out for her birth and went into student company

and then I just kind of got lost in the sauce there. Because then I'm just a number. You know, I was like, uh, yeah, and wait and waiting, you know, to get back into a pipeline, basically, um, because there's a bunch of people, you know, good, good dudes waiting to get in, uh, life, you know, I'm not gonna, yeah, I'm gonna be there if I can. So I was there for her birth. But then it's just like, I also realized then too. I was like, man, I'm just kind of just a number in this place.

Like, I wonder. Yeah. And then I also, you know, going through the cue course, it was great. It was awesome training, man, and really kind of honed in on some of the, like, like, I really, like, take pride in being a green beret. And, and I firmly believe that, like, the most, like most capable group of 12 people, and a well-oiled cohesive team, ODA, is the most capable force multiplier and combat little element

that you can put in behind in any country and and and make truly make it and like a Substantial impact like for 12 people. It's amazing like if you have the right people man Getting all the like all of them I didn't see in a short amount of time. I know And that's when I pushed myself to go try out for something bigger or more. Hold on, don't go there yet. Sorry.

Let's go. So you get through the queue course, where are you going after that? So I knew that, or I've been told that if you're a communications guy, Sergeant, like they're gonna make you do time in signal and attachment, which is like battalion level. Like, you get your time in there for a year,

and then they'll put you on the ODA. So I was like, how do I negate that? I went to dive school and I chore pre-scooter, and then during the course, and then I went to dive school and route. But I had already, I went in, because one of the pre-screwed instructors was in the, like, in seventh special forces group before.

So he actually introduced me to the company Sergeant Major before I was even out of the key course. Like, I stood in front of him. It was Brian Rary, and I still stand touch with him. And he was, he's like, all right, if you make it through a dark school, I'll bring you to this company on Patreon.com. And I was like, where's that?

Moved out, and then I went to dark school and that was super easy. And I was okay. I was like, well, I've never heard that before. And I know it was a man. Yeah, I've never heard that before. It was a man. Yeah, I've never been afraid of a pool before my life. I thought I love the water. And I also love to breathe, which is a novel concept, right?

It's like, oh, I can't breathe under here. Oh, and you're taking my air source. Oh, they constantly cool. There comes the wizard. Yeah, no, don't go to the light. And it is a very interesting school, man, but like physically challenging. And, and, you know, the cognitive, like, challenges of it

are, it's not a game, like maybe like, dive tables and understanding all of that and learning it and then then yeah, it's, it was a, it was a kick in the talking dick period. And I would just go to the barracks, like, and look down at the pool in QS and I'm like, oh, it's beautiful out there. So Fubo, especially forces underwater operations. And I'd be like, they'd be like, cruise liners coming in in the QS,

like through the bay, and like you could see them over there. They're going to the other part of QS, and like, I bet they're gonna have a great time. And then I'd like look over at the pool deck and just like the craziness that ensues or that would happen and like jokin' up,

you know, drills and warming up, they got warm up for you getting in the water. Yeah. And you're like, they're just like drowning people. You're just like, what? Like your mask is constantly charged, right? So like, oh, get used to that. You'd be doing flyer kicks.

And like, and if you know some people, they either they drain it, you drain it through crack in the seal, or they're like, my squinting or they just can't close off the nasal like pass, and then it's like, I'm sorry that I'm trying, and they keep coming charging it. And then I remember this one time, you can't see anything, you just hear, and you're just like, well, I'm doing the fire kicks, I'm doing a million back then. But my die buddy, he couldn't close off that, they kept charging it, it was like third time and they're like, okay, looks like you just want all the water. And they just like

slow-port them with this five gallon, for when I can tell it was a five gallon, but just, it was just like, oh my God, he's drowning. Like, what seemed like for a long, long time, and I was like, bro, what it taught me though, was to keep the water in your mask and just close your fucking eyes. Yeah. Just close your eyes. Like, it's uncomfortable, man.

But it makes sense. They're teaching you just like with anything, if you can't do something with your eyes closed, then you need to do it more. And whether it's gun handling or working through, especially life saving bits of equipment, like you need to be able to work through those things in different conditions. So definitely fun time down there. I have to take a break. A lot of you have heard me talk about my psychedelic journey this year

and all the benefits that came from doing it. One being, I haven't drank in seven months. I haven't had any caffeine in seven months. My anxiety's gone, my anger's gone. A whole list of benefits came from that. And that led me down this journey of researching benefits of mushrooms and fungi in general. And in my research, I found this company called Mudwater. Mudwater is a coffee alternative with four adeptogenic mushrooms and herbs. With a fraction of the caffeine as a cup of coffee, you get energy without anxiety, jitters,

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Go to mudwater.com slash Sean to support the show in Use Code Sean for 15% off. That's mudwater.com slash Sean Use Code Sean for 15% off. Kyle, we're out of dive school. You're going to your group. Where did you go? Seventh Special Forces Group. Where is that? Fort Bragg.

North Carolina. You just spent your whole career for Bragg, didn't you? Pretty much. Nice. Yeah, nice. In the training course, the key courses at Bragg, The seventh group was at Bragg up until a certain, are they the ones that moved to Florida? Yeah, okay.

I never made the move to Florida though, but yeah, I went right to that dive team with the company, Sergeant Major, he kept his word. So I showed up and the battalion Sergeant Major had a real big problem with that, because I had to go do in processing and he was like, ah, it's our Morgan. He's like, oh, you think you're special, don't you? He's like, I got, I got my eye on you.

You got your range of tab and all this stuff that like, I was like, what? When I showed up, I was like, this is the battalion CSM. And I'm like, what just happened? Like I did something wrong, you know, by going to a school and doing it, and like, and then that. You know, it was just, it was kind of weird to show up, and then that was the reception of it. You know, here's like welcome to the unit, welcome to the battalion with a group.

But, you know, once I got through that with him, like me locked me up at Prairie Grass and said, like, I was a woe. Which I get to a certain extent, like, hey, this is still the army. So I think the, it was like, it was still very shocking to me that, and it wouldn't be like congratulated. Like, hey, you went to a school that, I mean, it's like not very many people go. Yeah.

If they go, not many people like finish it and CDQC and come at Diver Qual course or whatever they call it now. But either way, I went to the company with Brian Rary and to the diet team and met my new team, 745 or 7215. What was that like? Were they welcoming? Were you pumped to be there? Yeah. It was very levels of experience, a few 18 X-rays, but guys that they build, they get honor when Dave Smith and a couple of guys that I just, for every friend, I've just still honestly reconnecting

with some of those cats has been like such a great experience for me because some of my fondest memories were during that time as a Green Beret. Really, what are some of those memories? Like, the relationships that you built in the team to work together to accomplish almost like sometimes a like on the surface, impossible tasks, you know, and you're like,

you want me to do what with what and without the resources. And so you get very, like, give me an example. Like they're having you do what? So a big one would be the village, village stability operations. So VSO, at a certain point, there was a big shift where they wanted us to go in and do more of a traditional, like, live with the locals and, like, unconventional warfare. And, you know, versus, are you talking about for real or for training

right now? For real. Like, in Afghanistan, that was, like, my last trip with them was to do that. And conversely, it was like seeing a bunch of different aspects of what an ODA can do, but then to really see what you can do is to go into a place where, for one, you're not wanted, and they don't believe that you're gonna stay. And then you stay. And it's like with zero resources, besides what you bring as a team, and then building white space from there. So that was some of the,

my fondest memories were being on that team, seeing all the different missions that we had, and then leading up to being such an initial part of that ODA to execute that mission that seemed impossible. And the Chutu Valley and connecting Firebase, in this valley that up to that point, just natural like terrain kept it, lines of, it limited lines of commerce, all these things, because the Hellman River was a massive river that basically ran north south,

and this mountain ranged the valley, and then one came kind of a finger came all the way down to where it was almost just a footpath around. And then everything beyond that was like, you're in a different country because they were so limited, even through being, you know, this is 2010, being exposed to us in the country. And, but up to that point, it was only like night raids

or like maybe a medical civil affairs team came in and did a med cap or something. But just pick up and leave. So they were in grain. They were just like the Taliban had them brainwashed completely. And we had to sit through like who is truly like, uh, like supporter of Taliban and who is just like China survive. How long did it take you to go through, have just sort through that? I don't think we ever really figured it out. Yeah. But we made it to

where, um, we showed them and proved to them because you have to gain their trust, right? And like bringing value outside of, well like we got it, like the Taliban has all this, like they're gonna, they got guns and they're scary, you know, all this stuff, so what do you guys bring? Well let's go back to day one. You know, day one of your last deployment with them and then we'll rewind and go through all the other stuff.

But you're talking about VSO standing up a village basically and creating a fighting force, correct? Yep. So when you got to that village, had you read the first Americans that had been there? Not, not. Like I said, they had seen us, but only at night, or in passing, like just for kids, you know? Yeah. Because it was, like, but only at night or in passing.

Like, just right now. Yeah. Because it was, like, it didn't just happen, like, hey, come, come to our village, we had to fight every single day. Like, and we were literally exchanging, you know, we were in fire fights with the Taliban every single day across the river.

And they cleared out a whole village, it's our tutu, and they were like, they damned up the irrigation canals and like they were running werel-barrel, or dishkas and werel-barrels up and down this thing, but the veg covered enough to wear like anytime we would get some sort of air support if we ever did, they would be masked from overhead.

So they were dug in. And we were so exposed, because in every time we had to keep that line, that front line trace, that was it. We held it. And we switched with third group, and we came in, and then we would do split team ops out there because while we were training, half of our team was training some sort of local force to come in and like be our security forces with us

and that was its own separate mission in a sense because it took, like these are tar heads in like, dudes that you're like, not, you're not the person we're looking for. I'm not giving you a gun and training you how to use it, so I can sleep in a four walls where we had to pull our vehicle in it, and one of us was up every single night, like all night, period, and we would have the locals

like man, the checkpoints, but literally we'd be pulling security internally and then hopefully they're looking outward. But really it was like trying to create as much early warning as we could. So like Constantine wires with like soda cans with rocks in them, like straight up just getting creative about, you know, we've learned these lessons. But yeah, to come full circle back to that, to being resourceful and truly like,

it was very much to me like what we trained on in Robin's age. And, as a part of the qualification course, the foreign internal defense or the training, the G-Base and Gorilla warfare. And, but it was, a lot of it was, so we, one of our elements was back doing that, training the local force to arm them, and then the rest of us are out there.

So when we switch, like I remember this one mission in particular, not mission, but convoy out there, they knew we were coming. Like they had, it was took us an hour to get out there, that we would, I get ID constantly. And the, this one, we'd press this one like terrain feature and just get stitched up every single time. But we would, this one in particular, a new guy on the team, Ryan Hendrickson, which is

a SF teammate of mine. That was his first deployment with the team. And he was driving and I was like, the vehicle, I was in the pastures seat. And that's one of the first rounds, it hits the windshield in front of him, is his face and just spalls it, right? Like definitely a disc around.

But like, he pulled up in there, into the four walls, he jumps out. He goes, like, walks over to one of the Afghans and he's like, let me get a cigarette. I'm like, fucking, just starts to change, like smoking this cigarette, like, and I was just like, you all right? It was just, it was really welcome to, welcome to Afghanistan. Yeah. And, you know, and he also, he, him and I, you know, he came to the team and he, I welcomed him. You know, I didn't like, oh, you're fucking F and G, right? And you guy like, no, like, we were a small element.

And the last thing I need is like, there'd be like, you haven't earned the right to talk to me yet. I'm like, I never believed in that anyways. But that was one of the things that you know, the forever friends, man, like I've come full circle back. But like, that was a really hard trip. What was the rotation like? It was like every, like is it a weak train? It was like every three or four days. You'd rotate out we'd rotate out just based on the sustain at peace Like we would have to get respawned out there because it was you had nothing we were like shitting in ammo boxes and bags and burning shit ourselves Yeah, it was straight up and then this is a woman probably this is in

A ruse gone they were rude They were rude so a Ruzgan province. But the city center was they were rude, but it was like its own, like the mallocks would get together, all the mayors and they do these like, sure as and stuff and maybe like this big thing. And I've got to, some of the photos I was gonna share with you

is like me, like speaking in front of the, like the whole thing, all of them. Because I'm like, you is like me speaking in front of the whole thing, all of them. Because I'm like, you guys aren't, you're not getting it. Like, there's a couple, like there's a few mallocks out here that are missing and all these things that you're doing are never gonna, they're never gonna be, like, they're never gonna take the get the traction

that they need to counter, to combat terrorism without the rest of this missing link here, you know, because they're just funneling and training, you know, the Taliban have a safe they safe haven't so I was trying to empower them to well for them to take ownership of it and step up and like volunteer and we need capable people like that want to want to help defend their country and we'll train you. But we also just needed someone to pull security so I don't get my throat cut in the whole night.

Yeah. Every single night, like I would have this, these night terrors where it was like, cause I mean you'd hear about then like sneaking into people's and just cutting their friggin' throat. Yeah. When they're sleeping. And that's why I was, I'm sorry, about then like sneaking into people's and just cutting their friggin head like throwing it. Yeah. When they're sleeping.

And that's why I was, I'm sorry, this was Helmand Province. No, it was a Rusegon. Okay. Sorry about that. Yeah. Helmand 2010. So the Helmand River runs, yeah, it, it, it, it, it, so yeah, 2010 and the Helmand River where, where we were at, it was probably like 75 yards across.

Oh, okay. It was a big body of like moving body water. And like to the point where we were almost supposed to go do a dive thing to survey the dam, like to redo a couple of the bridges and stuff. Like we were actually going to do a dive, you know. And we ended up having to, no shit, yes, we're gonna fuck the dogs. We were going to have a river.

Yeah, well, dude, I used to bathe in it. So I would have done it. And heartbeat. Like, it was like the only moments of reprieve, you know, like you go down there and just frolic in the water for a little bit. Yeah. Cause then every, you just, you had to be switched on

like all the time. So like, like I would So like, I would run, like I would run, well, once we moved in, maybe back up, we had to clear out the Taliban from that village in order to then get over, because we couldn't, the choke point, like to try to get around the mountain pass here, like it was a footpath, like the most,

like they get the little bikes through there, like loaded down with 16 people and shit, but like still, like we couldn't use that as our way to get in and occupy. So we planned this big mission, the, we did a damn zodiac crossing at night. And we put like an ATV on one's out with a bunch of people and then the other zodiac, we just did a rope bridge

and just like pull ourselves across. But we needed supplies. And because we knew once we went over there, like we were gonna have to own it. And that was the mission that we had gotten reports from human intelligence or whatever, like that night before that they were booby trapping the doorways, like with IDs, with explosives.

And so we're like, okay. I'm like, is anything changing the calculus here of like why we're doing this without like, you know, planning a little bit further into this versus like, well, we'll just go up and over the walls or blow holes in the walls and like, yeah, that's cool. That takes forever. And like, part of me just was like,

I wish I would have said something more. Like, end that moment, but the mission, through resources, everything kind of came together and we had to do it that night. And we did and coming across, we had to clear every, every step we took and think, God, we had a localghan force that was like, switch the fuck on with finding these things man.

Like, but there was only a few of them. So each like I had a few of what? Few of those trained afghans that were expert, expertly trained in detection. And what are they detecting? Exposive IDs. Yeah, either rotor, like foot or mobile. They saved my life, I don't know how many times.

Like, you found a lot of bombs. Yeah, he's like, his name came back to me the other day when I was talking to him, the NWRPD guy that I was trying to, but either way, he'd like the cow, stop. that in my IPD guy that I was trying to, but either way, he'd like the cow, stop. I'm like, what? And he'd be like, look, he'd like pull this wire,

and he'd like, stop fucking with that thing dude. And just like, right in front of my feet. I'm like, ugh, but I mean, they didn't catch all of them. And we did. And it's like, you know, going over, we had to be very methodical with our movement and using the cover of darkness to move slowly through and clearing to get to breach. And we had five elements, right? So it was me and another FDA guy, and then a squad of local forces that we trained. And then one of those like, like the only other Afghan I trusted, like there

was one of those cats. So it was like, he was up front with me. And I'm sorry, I remember his name, sorry. And I got to preach. I was like the lead element. And then there was another two elements that went into the irrigation to clear that out. So my element was the furthest north. And then Ryan Hendrickson's element was, he was with the team sergeant and then their squad.

And he goes to, I guess the interpreter, like stepped in front of the doorway at the building he was at. And he goes to tell him like, no, don't get out of the doorway. And when he did that, like he basically put his weight onto the pressure plate ID and just set it off. And you just heard, I heard the explosion,

and then I just heard and felt like a thud, a body just thud, you know, hitting the ground. And then pause, and then these whales of just pain and agony. And I knew the voice, I could hear it in the ear shot, you know. And crickets the voice I could hear in the ear shot, and crickets on the radio, and I was just like, oh fuck, and I want to go run over there. Because it wasn't that far from me, maybe 50 yards, not direct, but very indirect route,

but straight line 50 yards. And I want to go run and, and Akmetsha. Akmetsha grabs me again. I'm like, nobody puts their hands on me. And he says Kyle, his English wasn't great, but like when he spoke to me, I knew like what, like it was serious. Like when he spoke to me in a way that he did.

And he's like, no, that me go. And but it felt like it took so long to get back to Ryan. And when I got there, like with him clearing in front of me, so I didn't, he didn't want to see me get, he would just, they just cared so fucking much. And I got there and just the snapshot, I can see it is the team sergeant's on his knees like over here and like Ryan's over here in agony, like bleeding blood is everywhere and just bleeding out. And I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?

And he's sitting there like on his knees knees, like trying to pull his turn again out and it's still in the plastic. And I just, I'm like, you're fucking useless, like in my mind and just went over and by that point, my other teammate, George, like got had gotten there and actually got the turn again on Ryan's leg and then I was able to help George like, you know, work through the stuff with Ryan,

but his leg was just hanging on by like the flesh, the meaty part of his skin and tissue. And just like, he had lost so much blood. And I didn't think he was gonna make it, like right there. And, but I knew that like we, I was like, all right, who's got the litter, you know, I'm like starting taking control. Like as they're working, like,

where is, you know, making sure the turner gets stopped the bleeding and then we're splitting his leg with his own rifle. I'm like, like to try to like put it back into place and then I look at the medic and he's, I'm like, he's like, where's, I'm like, where's the litter? He's like, we don't have one. I'm like, you don't have a litter?

I'm like, you don't even have a polo slitter? Like, what? Not like, so I was litter. I'm like, you don't even have a polis litter? Like, what? Like so I was like about to just like detonate right then, but I was like, all right, so I just went into and found a woobie and just freaking bust it out of woobie and put them on that and I was like, fuck and grab a corner, let's go. You call in the meta-vac, tell them to come right there.

And like out of like using that, we were taking fire from the Taliban over here, using the buildings, the mask, our movement, it was exposed, but it was maybe 500, 600 yards from the injury site. And, you know, so they, they're on the horn with the medivac and but we're starting to move them and The freaking pot or the the whoobie just freaking rips all apart and

We stop and I'm like the team started tells me that they won't land right there We got to move them another K another kilometer that way. I'm like fuck all that. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,

I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,

I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm him and I was like, all right, fuck it. You make, make a decision. Silence.

All right, fuck it. This is what we're doing. And I throw Ryan on my shoulders and just run with him for that whole like thousand yards, man. And got him, placed him onto the helicopter and said goodbye to him. And I didn't think I was gonna see him again. I just, he had like,

he almost like no life left in his body. And I just, that was like such a somber feeling after like the helo left and it was just like, everything just hit me out once and I was like what in the fuck just happened? and Yeah, I had to regather myself and then

continue to like do the mission and we ended up you know, clearing, killing a bunch of the Taliban and clearing them out of there and then I think we ended up finding 27 baby trapped IEDs. It took a long time. It took a long time to clear through all of it. How many bad guys did you kill? With us in error. I mean, I don't know. There's no, in the teens, you know,

in the local area. But they would just go up into the mountains and then they'd just harass us, you know, the continual leave. Because they were, they were gonna wait us out. They're like, they're not gonna stay, you know, so, and then they were like, what we left you some presence down there.

So just, just even to get the locals to come back and like live in their houses. We're like, no, no, we're gonna stay. Like, they're like, no, there's boom, boom, you know? I'm like, yeah, show us, we'll get rid of it. But, because we were doing the old, like, let's just search for them. And then it got to the point where it's like,

nah, how about anything out of place, you let us know. He is your home. Yeah, maybe if something looks out of place, you let us know we'll come deal with it. Because that town wasn't the town we were gonna stay in. It was the one across the river, because that malloc, the mayor, is the one that had all the pool and all the surrounding,

isolated towns, So if we could get him on board with what we were trying to do, then we knew that we would with our efforts and then the ODA from the North coming from Cobra was doing the same thing from the north. And, you know, us taking that valley cost us like three guys, ODA guys, like lies. And, you know, it's a really hard, hard deployment with so many different, like, like, there wasn't moments of reprieve. Like, you just were just stuck in it, you know,

and then it started to become, like, all right, well, look, this sucks, what am I gonna do about it? I'm gonna go for a run. So, I stuck it running, let me run. So, I would create my own little white space by, I'd have like a tourniquet wrapped around my waist, extend it all the way. Just right in my range of panties and then like, I'd have a grenade in one hand and my pistol in the other. And I would go through a jog, through the other hand.

And I'd go through a jog, I'd run up to this, the highest point with a can grenade in a pistol. Yeah, yeah. And, And it was creating white space. It's like siops, man, psychological operations. And I'm like, I'm not afraid. And it wasn't that I wasn't afraid. I was trying, I wanted to make the situation better. And the only way to do that was to show them the locals

that I'm not afraid of these fucking inbreds. These that were like cave dwellers, like, no. the locals that I'm not afraid of these fucking inbreds. These, we're like cave dwellers, like no, I'm not. And I mean, the pistol was to fucking throw the grenade use the pistol and then save one round if I need to from yourself, you know, and because you're not capturing me, but it's also just a part of like, just being in that space where you're not getting resources, you're not getting the support you actually

need to accomplish the mission. They're like, oh, you're buying, how are you arming them? Well, you're not given all the, like the AKs to arm these locals like, and we're buying, you know, giving us all the, like the, like the, the AKs to arm these locals, like, and we're buying, you know, guns on the black market. And then you got a problem with it. Okay. Yeah. There's a fucked up, like, system here. And the disconnect between, like, oh, this, this VSO site is the same as that one is the same as that one. I'm like, do you realize the sheer geography difference

and then the cultural differences and just like one province or two or three? You can't just say, well, why is this one so successful and this one's not? Get the fuck out there and see. Yeah. Like get out there and live with us. I think it's free winding a little bit

back to the pan grenade and pistol. It's funny as that sounds and every single soft guy that I've ever worked with, we all say that last round of the postals for yourself. It sounds like nothing right now to me and you, because we're so used to that. But there's a civilian, and there are a lot of civilians listening, that's a fucking real thing. You saved the last pistol round, you have for yourself.

Yeah. If it wasn't like, it wasn't like I was intentionally going out to, like because I didn't, because I didn't want to be here, because I wanted to die. It wasn't that I was intentionally going out to, like, because I didn't, because I didn't want to be here. Because I wanted to die. It wasn't a death mission. It was a risk I was willing to take to make our situation better,

even just a little bit. And I saw the game that it would have by, you know, but then also the risk comes with like, you have to understand the consequences and the consequences of doing that or just being in that environment period or that they will come and like kidnap you and or capture you and cut your head off.

Or, you know, dishonor you or things that I, you know, dishonor you or things that I, so like that last crown is truly for me to take that off of the table for them. Yeah. You know, it's not a selfish act. It's an act that I've talked through and thought through. And you don't want to wind up on national television at that point, so not often for your family to see. and thought through and it's a, you don't wanna wind up on national television, get your head.

At that point, so to all, for your family to see. If it's just the screams that you, that they're just implanted in your head from seeing those videos and hearing them and like, whether they're drugging you or not, like, I ain't, you're not gonna, we're not gonna get there on me.

Like, I'm not, I'm not doing it. Like, and you gotta be okay with the fact that that's one of the courses of action that you will have to happen. Could potentially have to happen. And I can look at you in the eye and tell you that, oh, I would have done it over just like that. To, because I saw what, I would have done it over just like that.

Cause I saw what the benefit was the trust that we built and then the people, like the locals started just flocking in back home. They were, and they would just thank us. Like people that they were like, no, you guys, the Taliban are just gonna come in and once you guys leave and make us all pay and just through like this archaic like

the Sharia law and and you know all these things of like you know Just the stuck in the stout like the eight the stuck in You know the past of, they haven't evolved. This is a, from a societal perspective. And how long were you, and just care, and human decency?

How long were you and your team in the village before the locals decided they trusted and then up to to come back. Probably it was like it was an interval or you'd see like one or two word spread and then they'd be okay they come try us out they come feel us out. We'd hold these big sure as in the town now and the town was Haysear. And then we stand up in front of everybody and tell them, hey, this is what we're doing.

We're opening, we're gonna build a freaking, we're gonna build a bridge right here, and we opened up lines of commerce that hadn't happened in the history of their society and connected outside of just a little mo-mo-mo-mo-to, like now you can drive dump trucks down this road. And I say we, I mean, we were the effort, but I mean, that took a ton of resources.

It's moving like mountains, like moving a mountain. And, but that's the impact in putting our money where our mouth was, like, for real, is like investing in that. And I'm just really thankful that we as a team got to say these things were gonna happen, and then they did. Versus, like, oh yeah, promises this, promise you that, promise you this and then we just pick up and move out because

another mission comes in that's a bigger priority. And so it was really good to see that. But it took a couple months for them to really start to believe that. Months, huh? Months. Wow. Yeah. So, you want to build a building in our village? Sure.

What about that one? We're like, no, what about that one? We're going tactical advantage. All this, you know, can we defend it as a fortifiable? Like, nope. They gave us the most dilapidated walls. And it was literally like four walls that were barely hanging on. And they're like, that's all yours. It's brand new. It's great. We're gonna love it.

And then we got in this mix of like, oh, we don't want to build a fire base all over again. So it needs to look like on the surface and needs to look like it's just another, look like on the surface and needs to look like it's just another, you know, another home. And, uh, but then it's like, well, what about our security force protection? They're like, it was my security. Yeah. Sorry. Um, that's where it gets. And they're like, what are you guys building out there? You need all these Tesco's and this and that. I'm like, what fucking planet are you from? Yeah. Like, where are you right now? And they're in this same country.

And they're so to like fucking, they're curried coffees too cold. And I'm like, I want y'all come out here for a little bit, man. And like, you'll understand a little bit more about what we're asking. It's not... Yeah. It was very hard to work in that environment where they're asking so much of us through blood and sweat equity and like...

No, this is the mission. But then they won't resource it or support it, you know, in the way that it should. And that was where... That's why I was like, I threw the rotations I've done before, and like, that was the straw that Brubbukkan was back for me. I was like, I've got to find something else where I'm getting the fuck out.

Yeah. So what happened? Did you see your friend again? back for me, I was like, I've got to find something else where I'm getting the fuck out. Yeah. So what happened? Did you see your friend again? They put on a helicopter? Yeah, so Ryan actually, so when he was in his, in transit back to either in Germany or in the states, he actually mailed a letter to Erica.

And we still have it somewhere, but it's like chicken scratch. He's probably duped out of his mind. But he wrote something like, Erica, thank you so much for supporting Kyle. I don't know if you know this, but he's my hero. He saved my life. And something along those lines. And then he was actually one of the first ones and he saved my life and something along those lines and like,

and then he was actually one of the first ones to do like the limb salvage and they actually reattached his leg. Wow. And he's redeployed as an ODA on an ODA team like several times. No, sure. After that. And just recently retired, he wrote a book called Tip of the Spear. And I couldn't be more proud of him as a human being. And just reconnecting with him after being in the shadows for 10 years after that, like, it's been such a great healing experience for me. And like, I we even, he's told me things that I just didn't like I mentioned earlier that I didn't remember, but he would come back in and too. And it was just so great to have the conversation with him from his perspective and then mine and like and then I'm just

more I could be more proud of him as a human. And he's doing missionary work in Ukraine. Like, no shit. He's got a hard goal, man. And like, I think he deployed three or four more times with another, with an ODA, once he finally recovered fully from it. I mean, it's insane to me how they were able to do that. But modern science, and they did say that, had we not gotten the bleeding stopped when we did, like he would have for sure been dead.

I mean, even just seconds, you know, and while, because he tried himself a couple of times, he just couldn't get it on. It couldn't make sense of what was happening. Here is perspective is amazing and what's his name? Ryan Hendrickson. Yeah, maybe he can like me up with him. For sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I, I, I, I just, people like that is, it, it's a really good

like feeling to have work with, with people like that and then to see them through their own struggles and physical and just to come out on, and psychological like that and then to see them through their own struggles and physical and just to come out and psychological like that is attached to all of it to come back out and be the same person I had conversations with pre-endery. You know, and that's just like such a, um, because that happened with my ODA commander too. From that trip, he stepped on IED and lost both his legs above the knee.

And this is the guy that played the cross at West Point. I freaking stud Ben Harrow, Benjamin Harrow. And when I reconnected with him, after he stepped on that IED, and that happened, I went to Walter Reed with my family and was going to go because I would just went to selection and was in the waiting period of something or it started the training course and I was like I got to go right after the injury. As soon as he got into, he came back into, and was it Walter Reed, Ben, Harrow. I went up to DC and was like,

I don't know, but I just wanna show him, like I'm here. And he wasn't, I went up there and took, I got all the way to the same, the floor he was on. And this is like a week after he lost both of his legs. Like, he wasn't ready to see people, but I left like a basket and a note telling him, I'm here. I know your team is over there, but I'm here. And then after that, I had down doing what I was doing. And the unit I was in, and to be able to had down doing what I was doing and the unit I was in.

And to be able to reconnect with him when I was going through the National One Treppard Center of Excellence, TBI, the treatment at Walter Reed, I reconnected with him. And it was like, he was getting around on his getaway sticks, man, like, WMPT above the knee, he had his like a world record for regrowing femur from, it was so far, there wasn't enough femur to be able to support or tie on to a prosthetic, he wasn't going to walk. So he refused to let that happen. So he did some, like, just like, he always was, that type of person and man, they went in,

like, would have to re-break traction, break traction, and to re-grue, not only enough to put on a prosthetic, but like, holy shit. Like some crazy amount of, like six inches of femur or something, I don't know, but it's amazing to me to see these guys that I've fought side by side with. And while I'm going through my own missions and struggles and come back together

and we're all the same, the same good caring people that I remember, just with a whole lot of story behind us. And that's what really drives me to know that it's not too late unless you say it is. But, yeah. not too late unless you say it is. But... Yeah. Let's take a break. Yeah, that's a good break. Seconded.

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for the selection and assessment up in West Virginia. Because I had went to West Virginia for that assessment before that deployment and they told me like I need to go get some more experience. So you tried out for the unit unit. Yeah. Yeah, the CAD, common applications group or special forces operational attachment Delta. And they told you you needed more experience. Yes. How many how many deployments did you have up to that point? Four deployments to include the 82nd deployment. Yep.

So I mean, all of them were six, eight, nine deployments, you know, and this is a short amount of time from 2002, three to retarget him out. Spring of 2010, went to assessment for that. And I made it through everything. And then when they do the last thing in the board, I didn't want to talk about some of the things that I needed to grow.

Like I still was in this like team mindset of like, that's just team business man. I ain't talking about that. And they're not looking for that kind of person. You know, it doesn't matter how capable you are, you know, because I had made it through everything up to that point. You know, that was a very humbling period where I was just like, well, that makes sense. And then I couldn't see it for what it was.

And I needed to go do that other trip where I just talked about. What, I'm sorry, what did they not like? It's not that they didn't like something. There's a lot of psychological evaluations they do and they're very much like paying attention to the whole person So you can physically make it you know through time making whatever the time standards are and and

the great equalizer is The train, you know, so You can only recover from so many mistakes You know, it doesn't matter how physically fit you are, if you are on the wrong mountain, Rachel, you're on the wrong mountain. Yeah. And you can't recover from it.

So you had to, so like it was, I felt, you know, it's a, it was a very physical process, man, and you against yourself and a clock that you don't get to see. And, and that's why it's like, the mindset I've always had is like, I'm gonna let them tell me no. But then to be told no, it was like, well hold on a minute, what do you mean?

Everyone likes me. And I just did this, like, what? So I came home kind of like, what do I do with my hands, you know, and then I, but then quickly, I was like, my team needs me. So I went and deployed to that village stability operations mission and do you think? I just mission. And do you think, what you talked about?

Do you think that was a generic, a generic response? You need, you need more experience. I mean, for combat deployments, there's a lot of experience. No, I think it's a maturity thing. Do you think it was a maturity thing? It was absolutely it.

How old were you when you, 21st tried out? Just bring it 10. I don't even public math. Showing. About 25. 26. 27.

Okay. 26 or so. And I needed that next, that I went to sodic after that. I went to the special, the sniper school. And then I deployed, you know, for nine months doing that via so and came back. And I was going to take over as the assistant team sergeant,

but I had to make a choice, like because I knew that they said go and get some more experience, right? But that was, that's as vague as it was. And part of that was on just on me to read between the lines and either say fuck it, like tried, they didn't want me, they didn't miss out on me, or like used it to help like capture some of the things that I I couldn't see for what they were at the time. And I went back and did the long walk and then the board again and it was a different experience. How long is the walk? Which one? How long is the

long? There's the one in the beginning that you do is 18 miles. And then it's like you do your PT test, you do the 18 mile and then you're just like that's a pretty cool you know like pre-rec you know that cuts a lot of the riff raff if you show up and you think you know that was kind of yeah and um I mean I've ran the selection a few times as Gadgery and it's really amazing to see you know from both perspectives how many people people is shown up to selection for that? It varies, but I'd say they screen out to where there's 110 to 20 that show up. How many?

How many? How many? How many? How many? How many? How many? How many? How many?

How many? How many? How many? How many? How many? How many? How many? How many? How many? and they're pretty selective on just being out of a tend. And then if you don't make it, depending on which point, like you still get, it's the most professional course I've ever been to, and then running it, you see how to run a professional course,

a military training course, or just any training course. It's like that perfect course on the surface, but behind the scenes, you got all these people just looking for work and constantly filling holes. How many people were from other branches? Roughly. I mean, a vast majority is from the Army. I'd say there's in the like single digit,

you know, numbers you have got from different branches that show up. Yeah. Were you more confident the second time around? Well, yeah, because I didn't, I mean, for one, I didn't have to do the whole thing. I just had to, I went in when they were finishing up another course and then I just did the last, the last like couple days. Okay.

And when I say it was like a different experience, it was because I was, I was, I matured, like a lot. And a lot of that was like, I needed to be there to help save Ryan's life. I needed to be there to help save Ryan's life I needed to be there to help like save other people's lives to help you know read

those villages in the area of terrorism and My team needed me and that's it's actually like a great I feel really I Kind of I use that to actually like a great, I feel really, I kind of, I used that to hope like give myself, that was really harder myself about that. Like it was like, oh fuck me, it was like, first time I didn't pass something. Like, oh, then what does that mean?

It didn't make sense. It didn't mean no. Or come back and then we'll talk to you, you know? It was like this, and I start telling myself, well, they want me, but they don't, and they do. It's just like, I was just fucking show up and see what they say. And I did.

And I was able to, it was a different experience, meaning like, I was able to talk about things that I just, I get it. It's the mission, the men and me, right? Like it's a, you're a part of an organization that the impacts are strategic, they're national, it's a national mission force. And they need people that can, you know,

not just physically, you know, like, fit a mold or adapt, they need you to be a decision maker, your process, your ability to process and make decisions on sound judgment tactically or in strategically. Because the impacts, they have second, third or effects that you kind of hear about, you know, when you're, you know, working my way up to the military,

like, oh yeah, there's this whole second, third or effect thing, you know, it's like, it's like officer jargon, right? The fact is, is that you see it there. And you have your choices and decisions you make, they have strategic impact. And policy driven by a con-up. Like US policy, there isn't one, so let's force this by a con up like US policy there isn't one so let's

force this with a con up a concept of operations or a mission that we create and and then they like all right well let's put something okay cool and I mean it's it makes sense looking back at it and it makes sense in that moment when they said, all right, you know, congratulations and you know, I think I got to your eye to imagine that. And that was probably the last time I remember crying for a long time after that. So it felt good. Well, not crying. It doesn't. I mean, mean tall good that you go going to DC yep, and then I showed up for at Bragg still and that was a big thing too because the seventh group was moving to Florida as that was happening so I wanted to like tell you know the family like hey, this is what we're doing Versus what I was what I was doing was like just hold on like just wait a minute

Let me I'm me sort this out. I'll find out and then I'll let you know. So you would, you're like, good news family. We're not going to Florida. We get to stay right here and stay, well, I'm sure they were stoked. Well, it's one thing I can say is that they've been able to, you know, grow up in the same and have some of the same

friends that from elementary school to like graduating high school. And that's a, I didn't have that. And I wasn't a military child. And it was that piece I know that even though I've been And it was that piece I know that even though I've been, you know, outward facing for so long, like I've been able to provide that through, you know, the jobs that I've been given or made it to and then, you know, been a part of. You know, so there is some silver linings in it. Well, let's get into OTC.

So you made it through selection, You're going through the training pipeline. What's day one? I just want to show it up and being like, man, this place is serious. And I was so light-hearted. A lot of that was, I think, like a defense mechanism. Like, oh, you smiling and happy. You got to like me, you know?

But that was actually one of the only times I took a photo and didn't smile. Was when we checked in that day. Because it's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and then they get your badge and I'm just like, in like a collared shirt, like dress down, you know? And I was like, damn it. Looking like dammit looking back on it I was like the only one they got because I took I took I smiled at every other photo which is like kind of if you look at the the wall it's like more all the graduating classes there's for one there isn't like a, oh, we're gonna graduate

12 people per operators and direct support. Like it's gonna be this many, no, you'll see classes with one, you'll see two, but they have them historically across the since 1978. And it's really cool to be a part of that once you finish. I mean, the training course, but that's only the beginning. How long is the training course? It's about six months of, you know, we're very heavily focused in marksmanship and a close quarter battle.

So I'm really focused in Host' address you and learning what it actually means to, you have a new job. You come with your body of experiences and different services and different jobs, and that's cool, but if you can't let go of the fact that you're being asked to do a new one, you won't make it. And I say, make it, you never make it. Well, even when you, excuse me, even when you graduate and go across the hall,

it's a selection is an ongoing event. Does the, what's the attrition rate like? When you're at it? There isn't, like, there's no metric to, it's a, it's truly like a, like, it only takes one person to believe in you, for you to make it, like, to the next gate, you know, and, but at a certain point, if everyone is unanimous,

you're going through the training course, and then beyond that, like everyone's job is on the chop and block. It's yours. It's yours. They're going to hand you a tool. How you're using your whole living tool, howling in, and be the best to have a whole living tool carrier. There is.

And then they're going to slowly ask you to do more and do more as your aperture starts to open. And you can see more of the room, see more of the, you're aware, and it starts to pick up, pick up because, you know, it's not, I mean, they've already selected the right person. Now it's just a matter of, is this person continuing to adapt and develop to the environments that we're throwing them in? So it never ends. No.

No, it's, it's, it's, it's, you start, it'll be mediocre in a place like that. And in a, in a, in a high, the highest performing group of people on this planet in one place. And it's a lot. But it just depends on what your priorities are, what's your goals? Where did you go? I went to one of the Sabre Squadrons, one of the what? Sabre Squadrons. So the source, like, and this is the history of the unit

was during the 70s, there was a lot of the kidnapped, not kidnapped for instance, but the flights were being held hostage and like airliners, excuse me. And the military, or DOD was asked to, all right, here's a problem set, what's your answer? Or what's your solution? So they looked, the DOD looked at the at large in the 70s and were like, we got the kind of, we got this, maybe they could do it and like,

a airline take down. Aircraft take down and the answer was we didn't have something. So, you know, Beckwith and his vision with the two two SAS, you know, and spent a time there and the regiment and the United Kingdom adopted and founded what was originally the two A and B, swadden, and everything was built off of that. The spine is the long hallway where the two saber swaddens are off of it, but then all the support mechanisms are there too. But that's grown. You know, grown to the mission. So, you know, in the 90s, they stood up C, and you know, a C-swarner from Black Hawk Down,

and Moved issue, and that time frame, and then in the late 2009, they stood up a fourth swarner. And then we grew exponentially to dismantle the caliphate in ISIS because the whole political environment of we can't go back into boots on the ground again and this and that. I'm like, what the fuck are we gonna do? They're gonna come here and cut our heads off. Yeah.

They're literally cutting American's heads off. Like, what are we doing about it? Well, we got these units out there that can reach out, touch somebody. Okay, cool. That's great to be a part of, which I was. And, you know, it's, but that's only one piece of it. We underestimated them by a lot.

And once we got a look under the hood going out and early 2015, when we were going after the Abu Saif and Abu Tanezah, they were like the oil emir and they were just running oil in the black market. And they took over old oil or frinary towns and forced labor. And if you wouldn't work, they kill you from the Syrian people. But they were also, like, Kaila Mueller was the last American that was alive. And we tried to grab, go and rescue on a couple of attempts, her and a few others, but we were always just a little bit.

And I say, we, it was just, it's a big moving piece to get us over into those positions and then not spook them, and there's so much that goes into it, and you get really one swing at it, and then you have to, Modern mind is that... It's just the pure evil. And radical extremism, you take al Qaeda, you make ISIS into the Sunni extremists where we... as SUNY extremists were, you know, we policy by, or excuse me, you govern from a political campaign promise and you pull us out of Iraq and two things happen. The SUNY extremism

takes the fuck off and then guess who hates them? SUNY, uh, Shia, Iran. like they come in and fill our void where we as a country, like left in 2011, 12 in Iraq. And then it becomes this enemy of my enemy as my friend, because everyone hated ISIS, but we had to operate in that environment. I say we as representatives of the U.S. government, battle space owners even, our unit became battle space owners. It's like, what? We're out there with the Syrian Democratic forces.

You got one of us in like hundreds of Syrian SES, like real time, like pushing this flop. Well, Russia is coming from this side. Iran is just doing all its thing and trying to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. And like that's where they've always wanted to get to. And this was an opportunity they seized years ago. And the only thing that kept them from going straight to there was ISIS. And it kept them, you know, more preoccupied while we had to grow to the ability to hold terrain. Where are the Hossa Drescu direct action?

Like, I got a lot of knowledge. I didn't realize you guys were doing that shit. Yeah, this whole boots on the ground shit. So I have a very like, people ask me under different presidential like times, like, you know, what'd you think about serving under this or that, like Obama, for example, I have a skewed like perspective of what it's like to serve in the military during that timeframe because I got to do my job. Us in Steel Team 6 got to go and fucking get after it, you know?

But at a certain point, we just became, well they'll just deal with it. They got it. They pushed that button and we're like, pfff. And there ain't no return button on there. Like, how do you get home? So there's no like, oh yeah, you guys got to get back. Okay, cool. And this, this like, going and doing that mission, like it was the perfect size target for a squadron of us to just to flood. And we went so deep into, we called them

with their pants down. They were literally like, oh my God, the Americans are here. And I think we killed like 40 of them. Like internal the target, we probably killed 12 to 15. Like close range and then external the target, they were running down the streets. Dark as fuck, just shooting,

looking wrong buildings and stuff, man, and just getting their G-HOT on, and you're like up there just like, I went back up to the roof to go throw the fast-whips off the top of the roof and the snipers are up there, just filling dudes in. And I was just like, what is going on up here? It was like a

firefight from the moment we got in to the moment we left. I have no idea. Well, I have an idea. There's just so many different things that happened on that mission where let's go through it in detail. Well, it was good to go after Abu Saif and he was the last one that had Caleb Mueller being held and like raping her and all the stories that you'd hear from the ZD slaves that would be either like they'd not be freed but they'd escape and it was just fucking disgusting man. And I just sat, we sat over there,

because we went over there to go, like two periods of darkness, we were gonna go do this, go get Kayla, and then that turned into she's been killed, and then he moved targets. So it's like the longest, no notice, deployment, warm start, cold, whatever you want to call it. Ish, and we stayed there, like with intense, just like waiting for months, and then we finally got a window, and we went, and it was this big, moving piece from our view all the way into deep and to Syria. Like aerial refueling fuels, like, he was a big mission. They consider

a treasure trove of intelligence that we got from that. It was like something like seven terabytes of just like intelligence that we captured. And let's go through it. Sage, you run in by Halo. Yeah, so I was on the 60s and my team faster up to the rooftop. It's two, it was three stories, but the third story was a koopla with a stairwell that went down the center. So I think four condos apartments, so two on the top floor and then two on the bottom. We cycled in so the four little birds went into the ground on the street

with the other troop to flood the floor, the bottom floor and then we roped into the roof and flooded. But we timed it to flood the floor, the bottom floor, and then we wrote into the roof and flooded, but we timed it to where the, we knew the charges were gonna go off before we could get ours on. And when that happened, it blew the doors, our breach is open. So, and I'm coming down the stairwell in the Coupa,

and my two ICs up front, and this is the stairwell that landing and then coming back down. And I see this guy, a shadowy figure kind of through, I could see from, I was on like a halfway down on the stairs, and I could see into the apartment after the door blew open. And you know, the breaches right behind the two ICs and they were now they're like, oh fuck, they're sticking the charges on the wall

to get out like to put them up to get their hands back on the rifle. And this dude comes flying in or out and maybe he got within two feet of my mate. And he was hiding behind this female. And I could just see it. He's running out with the pistol and to her head. And he had no idea we were right there.

And before it became more of a thing, like I was able to see that even just a snapshot, like I'm talking three or four feet of depth into the room, they came from. I was able to key off that and then I shot him from the stairwell and essentially in the top of his head and then he just supermaned down the stairs and she kept running. Before that became, he made it, it would have been from... Media. Like closer than that to my teammates. Holy shit.

It was a really tight shot, like period, like between her head and his head and then my mate, like his office rifle, under nods. So, and that was just like, this is how this is gonna start, you know? And then we just kept going. And there was like moments where dudes, and this is why, when I teach people, because I learned this lesson,

and my mates did, like, if I take one of my hands off my rifle, I'm going to transition to my pistol to do whatever it is I need to do, you know, lift something up, Because downstairs they got into a situation where they open a closet door and there's a chick that jumps out or whatever. And behind, he goes to grab, when my mate goes to grab the female off of, out of there, and then an AK gets shoved in his face.

And he like grabs the barrel and the dude just starts racking rounds off like next to his head and he's just controlling the muzzle with his own hands now. He's in a wrestling match now. Now my other mate had to get into a position to take a shot on this cat and And that's to me and like and it's the same way of like ladders like I'm They've shot someone on a roof from popping up where ISR said their roof was clear and They're hiding under layers of shit, and then you get a gun shove to your face You're like, well, Melissa had my red dot site looking through my nose as I'm coming up on a ladder wrong.

But it's a, it's something that I talk about and it's founded in like real world experience on why, you know, with like rifles aren't meant to be shot with one hand. Like it's, it's, I'm strong. And there's a plenty of strong people out there, but that's not the way that they're meant to cycle and to function and damn sure not shoot accurately or surgically. So for me, it's like, but I can do that with my pistol

in one hand if I need to. So transition. How did the op end? Man, we got like, it was the dApps barely made it back. The close-ups are like, they got shot through the fuel refueling boom and like they barely were able to fly those things back. Wow. It was a, we probably, I mean, we, we fucked them up, like period. And anyone that was still alive, that was ISIS, they came in, the leadership came in and, and executed them for not dying with their commanders. But it allowed us to look into holy shit, they're moving tons of money on the black market, the oil, and just the web

of how serious it was becoming and how much it could have been like our reality at home. Yeah. Yeah. And that led to between the intelligence we got then to capturing his wife and them interrogating her, the Kurds, to penporting Abbaqdaddi, where we were able to go over and kill him. And I all stem from that op. Mm-hmm. It's fucking amazing.

Let's rewind. Yeah. Let's rewind a little bit. So you get through training, show up to be what's the culture like? I didn't say B. I did just know that. It's kind of, you know, everybody, like there's this whole stigma, You know everybody like there's this whole stigma Like the personalities of a squadron and B has this like Oh, man, so you know good to be when you're going to the TC

Or when you graduate you're going across the halls. I know they're being maybe get it's like this It's almost like the one ever voted once. No, no, it's like this like Ranger like it's, I believe that there was, like, there is personalities and like, and they have their own and it's very much its own like fighting force, you know, and self-contained. And I did see some of, I think the residual, like pieces, where you get this whole blow off, be squandered blow off, it's like it's up, through the hallway, with other twat rooms, it's just like, but then I'm there,

and I'm like, not fuck that. Smiling in the fucking photos and stuff, I'm like, what, you want me to, no, that's what we do. Goes back to the Y. Like, why? Oh, well, it's just what we do. My Yoh, cool. Okay, like, I'm just gonna accomplish the mission,

perform to the tasks that I'm asked. And, and it's very much a performance-based organization. Like, and if you can continue to perform at such a high level, then you'll be successful. But there's this, it is a stigma of like, oh, you know, you get there, there's an asshole, you know, or whatever, and that's water. It's, I think I saw some of the older generational stuff, but just like with anything, how do you change something?

You impact it and at the level you can and ask by, and if it's just, well, that's just what we do. Then I'm like, no, that's actually to be social. Because before, when I showed up, you got to knock on team rooms, especially other teams in your own troop. It was a really hard time period for our squad and our troop, losing guys. That's what I showed up after. And there was a lot of in, not infighting, but there was a lot of dysfunction.

Yeah, yeah. And I don't blame them for the things that happened and they went through, but I was able to go in and be the glue, I think, and because every time I got promoted, like I went to, and I stayed in the same troop, but I went to another team. So I went from the mobility teams, the climbing teams, the water teams, the climbing team.

So for one, I got to do a bunch of different stuff, as far as infill techniques and skills, like, and, but also, like, have a piece of my own self in each of the team rooms and, you know, photos that they keep in, you know, on the, you know, the culture piece of it, you know, and, yeah, that's why I was really, I didn't tell anyone I went to soda, because I knew that they were trying to tell anyone I went to soda, cause I knew that they were trying to pull me to record away. Or I just wanted to be the best distalter I could. And best team, like, you wanted to be an ampere

distalter, you don't want to go to the sniper game. Yeah, no shit. Why is that? But I think I know what I wanted to be, I wanted to become the, there was always this like, I hadn't felt like I was good enough yet. Like, as an operator, a journeyman operator, and then as a, as an assistant preacher, and then as a preacher, it's just like, it opens up this, like, there's just so much more to learn, you know, and

to refine. I was like, I can't step away to go do another skill set, you know, that enhances and has it's like they all like work together, but I felt selfishly, I was like, I'm better served doing this. And they also saw that too. So because they, I mean, they could just read my thing and see that I was so, you know, qualified or whatever and they could have been like soon to wrecky. And we used to stay in the same swaners, just, yeah, it was always in the same, the same troop and, and it led to me being in the right place, the right time. What, how long was it before you made it through OTC?

You went to your squadron, How long were you there before you went on your first combat deployment? 2006 months, five months? That's it. Four months? Four months in your outdoor? Yeah. Yeah, it's, yeah, in Afghanistan. You're in one of the most arguably the most capable unit in the entire world. What's the operational tempo when you finally do? I guess not finally, four months later when you're in Afghanistan. I mean, this was in 2012, beginning in 2012. Yeah. I think we were still like our opt-in pose was still pretty high.

Like we were going out, I say hi. Relatively speaking, I mean, there's this whole like, you know, if you weren't in the unit during the heyday, like, what do you really know? You know, like early 2000s,s? I'm I don't know I'm here though like what do you mean like I it's just like what I mean? Where you going out no? It would be like no to like a couple times a week. We'd go out versus like twice a night or and nightly or whatever and sometimes it like it would be like Back-to-back, you know, but I'd say on average it was

You know to to the hits a night But we we also got really creative with with how we were targeting and instead of just saying Well, you know you guys are you aren't feeding the targets, right? Like, right, fuck that. And we like finding creative ways of targeting that aren't so creative if you just really look at, hey man, maybe they've just started to use some older methods and you're like, okay, cool. Let's look for work. Like what?

Like what methods? Like icon radius. Like, got it. The cell phones that gigs up, you what I'm talking about. Like, I come radios. Like, got it, the cell phones that gigs up. You know, they're savvy. You know, the enemy savvy now. So they'll have like, you know, operational security using cell phones.

And just freaking telling each other all these intimate stories on the damn handheld radios. And you're like, all right, cool. Let's start targeting those. And then we just started using that damage, the handheld radius. And you're like, all right, cool. Let's start targeting those. And then we just started using that with, with Emmett, like from above. And, and all right, there we go.

They were doing all these like, tactical moves, marches, man. And we just started fucking them up. Like, bad. It was great. How are you doing it? So they would, they would like, oust people from, they'd be walking all night

until they find a home, and then they occupy it by force, rape and do whatever the fuck they do, feed me, sleep, or if they couldn't, they would sleep outside and right outside the... So it's like, fuck me, feed me and give me a place to sleep. Yeah, and we'd be like,

we're gonna come do all three for you, but, cause we watched you walk here. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha It's just, yeah, it goes back to this. So what were you guys doing when you got there? Were you telling them, were you capturing them? No, they vote. So everybody gets a vote. We would offset our airlift. So we had the sixes, so the little birds, but we would keep them offset to one side of the infill.

And then, because the shinnooks, the shinnooks, like, they'd, the Worley Bird, you know. Yeah. You could hear those things coming from, so they'd always start shooting it up, like, whoever was on the shinnooks. And then, they would never even see us on the pods from the little birds on, like, kind of the other side.

And it would just, you'd clean up, you know, on up on Info and essentially they would stay aerial as the cover while we were maneuvering the salt force. And then once they got set, they would infill them and then we pushed through. And you say, damn bush man, it's like, did you say a vote? A vote. They get to vote. Who votes? The enemy.

The enemy gets to vote. Meaning, like we don't just necessarily go in there to kill you. I mean, there's missions where it's like, this is a kill or capture a mission. And that's still a vote. Like unless we get told specifically, like we need to capture this person

and then there better be a really good reason why because that changes the techniques that you'll use and the risk to force, to do that. But then the, yeah, I mean, so like when I say vote, like if they're standing there with their hands up, if you can't discriminate your target, and if you assume, if you, this is a threat to you, then like you still, you have to think in man's game.

You don't get paid, anyone can just shoot people. Like us, like we have to be able to think and shoot surgically, but in account for our shots, what's in front of that and beyond. And if you can't, you don't, you don't stay there. You know, that's just that. And it's rapidly processing, you know, threats and not threats and then taking custody of

those until you can determine if that is an actual threat. And we've just gotten so so good at it over the years of like through callouts and things like that. Like, you know, like because they'll set themselves off with explosive vests and like belly belts and all these things and you just learn all these lessons through pain and through blood and loss. But you can do all, there's all kinds of things that we've built to do to continue to discriminate until we say you were no longer a threat. And now you know, you're coming back with us. Godship. Yeah, that's why I carry these with me. Guess I gotta detain somebody.

We're right on. Yeah. How many deployments did you do over there? Five deployments and then I don't know how many, a handful of like zero, like zero through 100, like you're gonna call, you get rolled up in country X and that button, no, it's time out. It gets pushed.

A lot of those. Yeah, once they found that button, holy shit. They were like, you know what, this button works. We like this button. a lot of those. Yeah. Once they found that button, holy shit. Yeah. They were like, you know what, this button works. We like this button. They were just hitting it. And then it's just such a massive thing that happens logistically. Like, we started doing it a lot, so much, I mean, a lot and a lot more and a lot more.

And, you know, sometimes they don't result in us like maybe we're sitting in country X waiting on trigger to go and then that doesn't get met where we get told by the president to stand down or return to base which is like base you mean 18 hours back that way. Yeah let's go through one of the buttons. Just any, what comes to your mind? This is one button. This is one button. Yeah, I mean, when it gets pushed,

first one that comes to your mind, where are you at? What are you doing? I mean, since it's been gossy, since 2012, that button's been getting hit. And I can't even... I'm not going to elaborate on all the different times, but just understand that if you're an American, like being held abroad in a country that we can do something about, like where it's not going to be a full on World War III situation, we're going to go rescue you. I guess what I'm getting at is I want to hear, and I want the audience to feel the experience of when you're you're back.

So like you're if you could walk us through so each bag has like a plate like it's tagged and it has like and you do that like you have to maintain it. So you're training all week long and then you always button your stuff back up on weekends in case you get the pager or whatever and you, you know, you have to, that sequence starts and you miss that train, man, you miss the train. You know, you might catch the follow-on bird or something, but don't miss the train. And it's one of those things that like, you're at a state of readiness and ready to go, but you're also training for like, you're no no-fail mission.

So, you get pretty good at repacking your shit up. And the whole point is that if you and I come in, we got can grab your shit and I know that you've got three bags, they're tagged, and they're in the truck. And then that truck gets loaded and once it's good, like me as the leader or second to I see like I say, all right we're up, and then that gives you time to get there if you were you know took you a little bit longer or whatever to get into the unit, and then you go to the the airfield and load up the C17s and off you go.

Plan and route, build whatever charges you need in route. Do all this shit you need to do, but we're coming. I mean, we could roll off the bird, the tailgate, the ramp, and right into a driving to the target or we're going to like a mission support site that we deem that we need to do. It could look a multitude of ways and we have different packages that we are you home just as fast? No, hanging out there. No, a redeployment piece is always like an afterthought.

Because it's a big moving piece like those aircraft, they're dedicated to us, but for return, that's not that they get prioritized based on, well, the DOD's like, prioritization. Yeah. So, and that's the part where, like, movement of people and amounts and of people I'm not going to talk about, but just broadly, there's a state of readiness that we maintain and between, you know, us and our Navy counterparts, like, it's a lot, a lot of responsibility. And it's been used not only for what it's intended, but also to be battle space owners too, like dismantling the Caliphate and not with ISIS. And it's like, the whole, my whole mission in Africa was to maintain relationships with the embassy, with the country team, wearing a suit every day. So we could divest to the transfer hell to seal team six. Do you want to go into that the hotel? Are you ready for that? I'm not going to break for a second. You want a break? Yeah, I think it's a good

break for a good time to get start going into it, but let's take a break for a second. I want to give a big thank you out right now to all the vigilance elite patrons out there that are watching the show right now. I just want to say thank you guys. You are our top supporters and you're what makes this show actually happen. If you're not on vigilance lead patron, I want to tell you a little bit about what's going on in there. So we do a little bit of everything.

There's plenty of behind the scenes content from the actual Sean Ryan show. On top of that, basically what I do is I take a lot of the questions that I get from you guys or the patrons and then I turn them into videos. So we get right now, there's a lot of concern about self-defense, home defense, crimes on the rise, all throughout the country, actually all throughout the world. And so we talk about everything from how to prep your home, how to clear your home, how to get familiar with a firearm, both rifle and pistol. For beginners and advanced, we talk about mindset, we talk about defensive driving. We have an end of the month live chat that I'm on at the end of every month where we can talk about whatever topics you guys have.

It's actually done on Zoom. You might enjoy it, check it out. And if zoom's not your thing, or you don't like live chats, like I said, there's a library of well over 100 videos on where to start with prepping, all the firearm stuff, pretty much anything you can think of, it's on there. So anyways, go to www.patrion.com, vigilance elite or just go on the link in the description. It'll take you right there.

And if you don't want to and you just want to continue to watch the show that's fine too. I appreciate it either way. Love you all. Let's get back to the show. Thank you. All right. We're back to the show. Thank you. All right, we're back from the break. We're getting into Mali, the hotel. What are you doing there? Yeah, so that deployment, it was a deployment cycle

where I was an advisor to the U.S. Ambassador or a country team as a DOD task force representative advising on task force operations, which we weren't able to do. And really the French were in art, like the only kinetic assault force, combating AQIM and ISIS and all the Islamic migrab stuff, like Maktar Balmaktar's crew and the Transahel. So from Libya all the way down through, they've used the smuggling routes from tobacco smuggling

and all these different things. As safe havens to build training camps and to move people for like regroup for years, they've been doing it. And through the Transahel and the fact that we allocated even one of us there for years, in rotating, it was to build a force to be able to combat that. But not to get into politics, but I mean, the political environment didn't allow us to operate at the level that we needed to, and then ISIS became a real thing. And back to my point about us being tasked with dismantling the caliphate, we needed every last one of us. So we, my mission was to maintain relationships at the U.S. Embassy and country team to divest

of the Transahel of the 166. So we can hand that off to them. So they could at least hopefully apply some more energy into it, not that they weren't already in the Horn of Africa and Afghanistan, just doing a bunch of stuff. But with us, we needed every last one of us to go in to from Iraq and to Syria and these pilot teams pushing in to not only just do these raids in deep into enemy territory. If we were gonna do this, we had a maneuver on the ground.

And I say all that because for one, I was only in country for three weeks when the hotel attack happened, but at Hampshire wasn't my mission. And that being said, I didn't have a mission. The mission was maintaining relationships. Like, they don't put you through all that training to then that be like, yeah, it almost seems like it. Well, I tell you what, the part that really, and this goes back to like,

I was exactly where I needed to be when I needed to be there. And I hang on to that because a month before that deployment, I wasn't going there. I was going into those teams going into Syria or like a former like troop made of mine. a former like troop maid of mine. Basically told this team leader last minute, I don't feel comfortable, you know, wearing a suit and like pre-fin the ambassador and stuff like that, like, I don't wanna, I don't think I can do it.

And I go, the fuck do you mean, you don't think you do it? I think when I fight, cause they asked me, my team leader was like, Kyle, I know you don't want to hear this, but I need you to do this. Like, we need, this is important in the strategic, we need someone that's going to hand this off and leave a good taste in people's mouths and like, because we can't do our job without that handoff happening. And it wasn't like a, you know, done deal. Like we had to basically, you know,

it had to be worked through. And I was in that space of it being worked through, but asked to do it a month out. So as far as all my like preparation and stuff like that, like it's, I was like, what? Sure, you know, it was a three IC, and I'm like middle management, and I'm like, okay, and it all makes more sense now,

I'm like, why? You know, why it all happened the way it did, and that's not the takeaway from someone's, I'm not gonna what if it, the fact is, is like I was there, right, where I needed to be to make the biggest impact I did, or I could, and I did.

And it wasn't anyone telling me what to do as far as, like, the command, like, what do I do boss? It was, like, a reaction. Like, I was sleeping in it was like a reaction. Like I was sleeping in bed. Like drinking myself, like, cause everyone just parties over there. It's just like, this place sucks.

So state partner is just out there like, oh this sucks, let's have Vesperes. Let's have Cocktail Hour, you know, and dress the nines and like impress people without like big words. And I'm like, great. And then I got called, a call from God. At 7, 7, 10 a.m.

And Frank Younger was out. And you know, the... I mean, you went to Molly, which is a permissive environment, correct? Yeah, I mean, yeah, we have freedom in the mood up to the... There is a line where you don't have, like... But you've got freedom of movement.

You can run around out in town. Yeah, for sure. And Bamako and like Southern Mali, yeah. Right. And I have I would like drove all over it. But once you get past like moatie or into moatie and then into like Timbuktu, like that's a freaking place. And it's in it's in Mali or gal or it's in Molly or Gowr. It's like, from the traditional like Toreg, like lighter-skinned mollions that, you know, they're almost like nomadic, you know, people that just kind of go and farm and then, you know, with ISIS or excuse me, Al-Qaeda blending in with them, they're able to, you know, from a skin tone, lighter skin, Arab, they're able to kind of intertwine,

and then you build, and this attack itself was... If you ever been in an environment like that before? From... Yeah, Columbia. Columbia was a great year. Good. Where the kid in that for handsome was a real thing. And the peak of those hostage, either repatriations, or I was a part of some of the efforts

during the early of nine when I was down in Columbia, working through that stuff with the Colombian lands, arrows and batteo and decomendas, like the special forces guys. Yeah. Well, let's walk through because it was a big incident. It's affected your life tremendously. So you say it started at 7, 10 in the morning on November 20th. Yeah. Let's start right there. Chronological order. Let's stay focused on this topic. I just walked me through the entire day. Yes, sir. I, my day-day was going to the embassy and showing face or showing my face and talking through if there was a meeting, there was weekly and bi-weekly, different DOD briefs

and stuff, but there was't a mission for me there. So I just kind of tried to look for work and there's some ranges and stuff. So I was able to like start at least, hey, you guys want to train? Like, and maybe I'm going to train here, you know? And just getting, you know, trying to get that going. And because I had on my kit, my kit stays in my ready kit bag and, you know, trying to get that going. And, because I had on my kit, my kit stays in my ready kit bag and, you know, I was able to, it's just like a rolling thunder

or a north-face duffel roller. And it's got my basic go-to-war gear, you know, my helmet, guns, my rifle, my pistol, my body armor, my panos and that's, you know, your basic, you know, salt or uniform and stuff. And so I got a phone call that morning, the day of the attack, and the phone call went something like this, where it was someone at the agency, you know, wanted to call to notify me about an attack that they had been made

aware of that was ongoing. And five to eight gunmen shooting up the front of the hotel, the Radisson Blue and Balmokomali and explosions, and that's what they, and launch from what appeared to be MSC driver, or MSC vehicle vehicles. And that was the situation report, right? And they called me twofold to let me know. And then, but it's not like it was my job to, really, I was the next door neighbor of the deputy and they were they couldn't get a hold of them

So they're like hey, can you also go check on so and so we can't get a hold of them. Can you help us out? And I was like sure My next phone call as I'm grabbing my kit bag. I don't have to do anything to grab it and take it to the front through some pants on and a t-shirt and it was like everything's in this bag. I know it is because I put it there. It's where it needs to be when it needs to be or it's there. You know and I know that because I've drawn from it. I just go back to just, you know, any tools or resources that you have, like, trying to use them and when you need them, they need to be there.

And so I'm on the phone with the Mars Octo that is the, like, the closest thing to a Warriors that I, you know, within a thousand mile radius, I don't know. And I'm like, hey, you and you meet me at my house. I'm going to wake up, sounds are, check on them. I'll be out front. And they lived like a mile away.

And the deputy, excuse me, the regional security officers, like the acting or the assistants, Mike and the other one, sorry for our name right now. They all came together, and but when I'm knocking on the door of the, my next door neighbor, the deputy chief, he opens the door, he's on the phone, an underwear, and he's just like,

picking Len out of his belly button, and he looks at me, he's like, oh, hold on, I'm on the phone. I'm like, nah, oh, there's the, the tax, this is an attack moment right now, and I don't know exactly where the hotel is, but I know it's close, and I can hear gunfire. So I'm like, that's definitely close.

And it's about three quarters of a mile or less from my house, which are like town homes almost. And he's like, I'm on the phone. Yeah, I know. I got, I'm on the phone with some of our guys in the hotel right now, like staying there. Because a lot of temporary duty personnel, like, would stay there, whether it was RMSE or other Western em duty personnel, like what stayed there, whether it was RMSC or other Western emissies, like that's where they'd stay.

But certain locations, and that's why the RSOs know, you know, they don't say, well, they do, they should. And the assessments they do is this is a place where we would put personnel that are on, you know, either permanent or temperate duty here as a lodging, place of lodging. And they have to do these threat assessments. And to me, it made no sense why that hotel was even on there as a good place to stay.

When they, looking at it, like the reason they chose that hotel is not only from the density of people, westerners. If your mission was to kill as many westerners as you can, you could throw a stone from across the street and hit the front of the huge front glass door windows. Because it's a soft target in the sense that it doesn't have any standoff. It's not in depth. They have all these security apparatuses and mechanisms, but like barrier, like from a vehicular assault, but it doesn't stop people from, you know, drive by and driving by

and get rich and out and touch someone. But so you know this though Kyle, I mean, you're talking about agency personnel, state department personnel, ambassador types, they don't give a fuck about security. All they give a fuck about is a nice place to sleep with a bar. Nice pool, really nice pool. Yeah, bad ass pool.

And that shit's ignorance is bliss. I've seen that shit's... Ignorance is bliss. I've seen it in every country I've ever deployed in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, he tells me, yeah, you know, it's like... It's their... Some of their T.D.Y. guys that were there to train...

whomever, and these are like... I met him the day before. They're like, Nack T.D.Y. guys that were there to train whomever. And these are like, I met them like the day before. They're like, Mac, he saw like old, old, hard, crusty MFers man. And they're in there not a good, you know? Like, but I, but he, not again, man. And he tells me, he's like, yeah, he just kind of gives me the, and I'm like, hey man, like give me their room numbers. Their cell phone number is like, he's like, why? Is it because I'm gonna go get him? And he goes, like, record stops, like, er, what do you mean?

You do that? I'm like, yeah, I'm going there right now. Yeah, motherfucker, they're Americans. That's a start point. For me, I was like, thank you, please. Now I have room number, cell phones, and now I can get on the horn with them while I'm maneuvering and route, absorbing everything as it's happening and processing to come up with a plan of action, to execute.

And I'm not pausing to do it, not like taking a knee, facing out, and like, it's happening real time. And it really resonated with me looking back now. I'm like, what'd you think I was gonna do? Like why'd you even ask me that question? But it goes back to, you just don't understand. Like the mindset piece of, yeah. Like it like right place, right time, right person, but it's also a matter of like, why aren't you doing something about it?

Like, what are you gonna do? I'm gonna, like, I just, I got time for that. So it was like, I'm gonna go do something. And, you know, I was able condense him to give me those numbers and room numbers and stuff. And as I'm moving to the hotel, like, drove around and got into the front set of driving right past it, kind of leapfrog around,

dismounted, and then kind of walked up, patrolled up. What are you, what are you carrying? What are you wearing? I had my, just a t-shirt on, the civilian t-shirt and like Prana, cause they're stretchy pants. Sometimes it's memory stretchy pants. So not to a lead-bray reference. But, and then just like some shit kickers, dude. And like, good thing they

were pretty sturdy. Plates helmet. Yeah, so like my regular like APC with plates helmet, HK416 with my normal accoutrements, you know, and then my surfer, RC2, suppressor and stuff like, and then my panos. And, but no more, I didn't have breaching tools, I didn't have bangs or I didn't have, all the extra little bits of kit that would have been really nice to have. But,

so as I'm coming up, like I'm the RSO's and like now he's talking with the ambassador and then the other RSO gets called by MSG or the post one and they're like, hey, you know, this guy's this one American and just like called and said that he's trapped in a room on fire. And he's hiding under one of the banquet tables and they're shooting over top of them. Please come get me. You can help me. So between those two calls, there's a lot of noise and I'm like, just filter through this. Like which one is the most life that one? So threat to life. I'm like, let's focus on this one real quick. Let's get the information. All right. He's going to, I made the determination like, hey, might you know where this room is? It's the banquet room, breakfast room. If I lead,

like, can you help kind of point me in the directions I need to go. And he knew they had the ground knowledge of the inside of the hotel. But somewhat. And I was like, what's going on? When you're in there, I made a fire just going. Yeah, right now I'm still so the R so as well, like we got to talk to the ambassador and like, you're already talking to him. But what we're going in to get this Terry the American the first American In that room the banquet room Because it was on fire and they were imminent life threat, right? It's threat to life of Americans. I was like all right. That's a that's now the pressing start point for me And the fact that they knew I wasn't going to go through

the front doors, they shot the whole fucking place up, like going in. And they chased a bulk of the people into the breakfast room. And that's where they ended up focusing their attention to get the most, from the timing, right? So like, 7, 10 in the morning, that's breakfast time. To the time I entered, it was about 7, 45, but I entered through a side door to basically break into a side entrance, service entrance or whatever, and then work my way through all these, like, conference area, you know, big, huge rooms

on the, like the outer perimeter of the building, or of the hotel. And I was able to, oh, that opened up into the main foray, where it was like, if you think about Embassy Suites, where it's like an atrium, where almost three-sided atrium, with floors all the way, you know, it was like seven stories, and you go out of the atrium, and it's like two spiral glass staircases kind of going all the way up on each side. It's like super exposed, and I just, and it's just like, the most like overly stimulating snapshot

I'd have ever taken, because I was absorbing all of it out front, and like everywhere around me, because every corner I was the guy up front, every like everything was the guy up front, everything was sensory over the load and it was the smells, the sounds, the fire alarms, the smoke, the haze, the smells of death in Western dress. It was something that my brain was like, what? It was like short circling a little bit because I hadn't I I'd become so desensitized to life and death, but in

You know in certain environments, you know and certain dress and that's just I think that's a part of a like a self-defense mechanism But this my for one I didn't get a chance to prepare my mind-battery spirit for violence, which is like planning contingencies and rehearsals, and you do that with each other and a team and a troop. And then you go out and do these things, and they're incredible, but you buy down risk with a collective experience and merrst, like, plans of action that you just in place and they're unknown, right? And it's a, I was just in reactive mode and I was fully exposed, you know, my mind, body, and spirit was,

and it was just awful to see and So how many bodies Before you stand, I mean how many people work? Well a couple the one first the fewer first few We're just kind of like sporadic in the for you area And then did you know any of them? No, no No, they killed 23 people. Total, um, Westerners. Um, to include one American citizen,

Anita D'Ataire, was her name. And I know that name, and I will never forget it at her face, and, uh, because she was the last one. And the last one I needed to get confirmation on, I went back to her room probably five times that whole day, and cleared it again and again. And then I was able to confirm that she was one of the killed during the initial. But yeah, it was, it was awful.

She was in the, like, the blind, leading the blind, like, into, like, they chased them through the breakfast room, people, and then they set the, that room on fire, and then just, we're stacking firm, they were trying to burn the place down. And then they chased them, everyone through the kitchen. And that's where Terry got left behind, the American that was in that room, that I, like they had dinted, they had set up fire. And he wouldn't move.

He was just like froze in that, wherever he was in that room. But I kicked the doors in to that room. And I mean, like even making it to that floor to get there was this big, I was like, you cover 10 to 2, you 10 to 2, like anyone, I'm like fucking pull security and cover me while I move because I'm about to make a real big movement because I had to run out and get in this spiral

glass staircase and just mad dash it like to get up to the second floor to hold up and then bring them up and then I went in and just went right into kicking these French doors in and it was like a cloud. The whole room was full of just fire and smoke and I just ran in there and it fucking floored me because I was like, well I can't breathe. Imagine that. But like this mindset of like, it's a self-correcting problem, man. But like, it's just kept getting lower and lower. To the point where now I'm on my belly,

like with my gun, like low crawling, gun like yelling his name. And I'm like, wait a minute. Hey, first of all, no one's coming. I can't see any further. And now I don't know which way is the fucking door I just came from, because I can't see. So I was able to like crawl the fuck back out.

And then holy shit. This isn't working. And I was like, get him on the phone, like direct, because he was talking, they were talking through a cutout, through the MSG, the marine security guards at post one. And then relaying to us, I'm like, fuck all that. Like, we got him on the phone direct. And then by that point, because I went and did a bunch of one of the lessons learned that I changed the way we train or

what had a part in that was communicating the fact that, I said, rescue, how, yeah, we're great at it, but let's, what about in a fire environment? So we started training with rescue one, two, three, four, and five up in New York. They have to be wide, and they're really good at manipulating a fire, that it's going to make it worse over time, but for that minute or two, it lifts, and you can see further, and they can go in and grab somebody. They've been doing it for a long time. So between that and forceful entry is something we changed the way we train. And I was able to you know pull him at that point is able to for one like know which direction he

was because a huge room. And then it lifted enough towards able to get deep into there and then like just pull him out by the like he just looked like death man. Like he had talked to death and he said, now hold up and I carried him out, you know, and loaded him up and in a car like we did that's where the it was the integral for having like the RSO and the relationships they have because they were working to embassy like drivers and stuff like shuttles. Basically going back to a safe area away from this fucking hotel. And while this is all happening, the embassies given me, there was some people at the embassy that they knew

what I was capable of doing and they weren't questioning it. They were just like, what do you need? Same with my command in Germany at the time. It was like, all right, got it. Kyle, what do you need? I might stand by and let you know what I got. Eventually, I was like, I need my fucking boys. I can't do this alone. And that empowerment, that trust is like, it allowed me to be effective, to be agile, to make decisions on the ground. And what I talk about is tomorrow problems, like I watched happen, where the Marsoc cats were,

were just being told, called every five minutes, man, from their cell phones. Like, what do you get? Like I watched happen where the Marsox cats were we're just being told Called every five minutes man from their cell phones like what you guys doing like you shouldn't be in there You're gonna get in trouble like you're gonna ruin the the platform for our source operations And I'm like hang the fucking phone up right now I'm like tell that motherfucker. That's a tomorrow problem and I need you here right now because tomorrow problem and I need you here right now because what they're doing and what they did was cast seeds of doubt into any of the decisions that they were making and if all

of those decisions were resting on the fact that they trusted me and I wasn't in their command but the moment someone from their command 12 hours away, you know, says, well, you guys shouldn't be seen running around in full body armor. That's kind of like, man, you get up, says, well, you guys shouldn't be seen running around in full body armor. That's kind of like, oh, you're going to ruin this plat. I might, first of all, you can go fuck yourself. Second of all, that's tomorrow, problem. You, you will do with it, but there's lives like that can still be saved. Like, where, where the fuck, what planet are you in, are on? You know?

But they, just casting those seeds and planning seeds into somebody that I needed to be switched, stay switched on and with me, like with me in this moment. And as much as I tried to like, say fuck that, we'll deal with that later. It started stepping for like steps and steps become an arm's distance away, become to then I was just like, holy fuck,

I feel like I'm like flat out alone in here. You even though you're moving with me, you're not where you're not here. You're not with you, you're too far behind. And then here, check, write the fuck out. behind and then here you're checked and write the fuck out. Now to mind you, I wouldn't have been able to do it in the manner that I did it without them. So it really bothers me that younger, I didn't realize the impression that I was having on, on so many people, by just taking action. And looking, they wanted to do these things, but they needed someone like me to just take lead.

And like form this motley crew of a team, you know, to do something. And I think like, and the whole team, like the country team, kind of really came together and they were like, well, how do we get accountability of all these people? Who do we have? Who's unaccounted for American wise? It really challenged them and they did a pretty good job of filtering and pushing that information

and getting it to me. It pretty rapidly and I was able to form a list where I have, which I wanted to show you, but I started forming a list on just some scratch paper I fell on the ground, because I didn't have a pending paper on me, like a good soldier, I had everything else. But I just found a piece of paper and I can you give me that bag? How do you want to show you this because it's important?

Yeah, so I I grabbed a scratch piece of paper from the street and then like started you know writing down like And then started writing down names and room numbers in my excellent handwriting. And somehow it survived. It's super barely hanging on. But this is the list that I started to form. And it started to kind of, these are room numbers and names of Americans that they were on account for.

And you can see that I needed a tar. It was on that list pretty early. And I was able to get to a room pretty quick, but she wasn't there. And then what are the scratch names of after I rescued him. Like going to the room and confirming that they are that person. And I think I kicked in like 54 hotel the worst, man. No shit. Yeah, it was like, you know, the master key.

Right here. I give the master key, right? I give the seals that, man, that whole like, milkyx, it's where it's hot, works, it does. It saves so much energy. And it was like comical watching people trying to, even with bridging tools, I was like, what are you doing?

What is that thing? The French when they came, I was like, like, step aside, please. I got really tired. But I got a heavy foot, man, I don't know. But plus, it's all about like, you can waste a lot of energy not knowing how to attack a locking mechanism

or what's a breach, a breach, right? If you're not at a feet the weakest point or the strongest point or the weakest point that you can defeat um and obtain a breach either way um So the list like I obviously went and got Terry that the first room and then I started getting you know the the the names and and room numbers and I looked at the floor, now I'm outside of the hotel after the first time I went in. And I look at this and people were like, hanging out there outside on their balcony,

he's just like guests in the hotel. I don't know, they can be from whatever countries, but some of them were like tie and bed sheets together. Unlike the sixth floor, like this, my man had like three sheets tied together and he had a good 30, 40 feet of just drop. Yeah. He even touched the ground. And I was like, first of all, don't do that.

I'm like, hand in arm, you know, because I don't know if you're gonna, like I said it in English, but I don't speak French and who knows if, you know, what language is they understood or spoke, but the knows if, you know, what languages they understood or spoke, but the pointy, you know, like me saying no, you know, and then having people like relay it,

but I'm like, don't do that. If one, that's not gonna hold up. And I was like, just paracage yourself in your room and don't answer the door for anyone. Period. And over to give them like reassurance as well, I'm like, what the fuck am I going to deal with this? Like, it's a lot.

And I was looking at the room numbers. And like, the highest floor was on the seventh, the set that was a bank of three rooms that were remotely close to each other on the seventh floor. So when I went back in, I was like, all right, I looked at the lower floor that I already cleared, came, went back the same way. And then, I was like, all right, if I find the closest stairwell to this bank of rooms, I'm just going to go right up this stairwell because there wasn't no outside, there wasn't an outside fire escape or roof access because I wanted to get down

and work my way from the top down. But I did a whole sweeper on the whole hotel and there was no fire escapes. So I was like, I got some going. I didn't want to go up the spiral staircase. So I went to like the fire, the fire stairwell, fire ready stairwells and went to the lower floor. Like, so if it was 7, 3, 1, you know, 2, 6, and 1, 8,

I went to the stairwell that was gonna get me closest to it when I popped out on that floor, if that makes sense. Yeah. So I did that, and then when I got to the 7th floor, I couldn't get in the door from the inside, because it was a crash bar, you know, emergency exit. So I didn't have in the door from the inside because it was a crash bar emergency exit. So I didn't have the tool or anything to pop it from the inside. So I actually went down a couple floors

and then went over and then that led me into this like outside area of the hotel. But to me, I was just still in the hotel. But at that point I had went around to the backside of it where I went up that stairwell and this whole wing of the hotel wasn't even on. It was like additions that they made and it wasn't even on like the emergency exit plan or anything like, which I took with me for to capture

that how fucked up this hotel was for one. Like this is what you have briefing on the wall here. Like there's parts of the hotel there and even on this, like additions, the whole wings. And I'm just so chaotic. And as I'm going up that other stairwell in between the third and fourth floor is when

like I'm about here in the clearance on the stairs and you know like running upstairs and then like trying to clear and then the the gunmen are like coming down the stairs and they're on the landing and then we we like lock eyes and I stare down his muzzle from five feet away. Like that close? Yeah, yeah, he's like right here and I just go,

well fuck, but I looked through like beyond the muzzle and into his eyes and I was like, And I, and I, I was like, I saw a change in his demeanor. I saw a shift because he was not expecting to see me. Big American flag, pannos on my head. He was like, holy shit without saying it. This is all like very rapidly, but the next thing through my mind was,

well, that's me. I'm fucking dead. And he cracks the first round off and a blackout for a split second. I mean, I got knocked out. Like, I thought I was in heaven or hell. And I just, like, it's all like a fog and aides, I thought I was in heaven or hell. And I just, it's all like a fog and haze, but I'm like stumbling down the stairs, and it's like almost like things are moving in slow motion.

And I'm like shooting back. And he shoots like five more times. And they all hit like just in this concrete stairwell right around like pop pop pop. Like right like like Samuel Jackson, man. Pulled fiction. And so for for me, the diviner of an ancient piece, like I just couldn't see it for what it was. And I just saw red. And I went running back up the stairs and yelled and I actually custom

out, called them a bunch of basic ass bitches. And I don't know where that came from, but I screamed it. I topped my lungs. And then he yells out a lockbar at me and fucking pops the primer on a grenade. And I hear that, it's very audible. You know, time to lay pop, like a Russian style grenade, the pineapple looking one. And I've heard a ton of that.

I can't stand and I know, so I was able to yell a grenade and get out of the way relative cover. And that thing just popped the fucking shit out of me. And somehow I was still, there was moments of blacking out right there for a second or unconsciousness. But then coming back to you, and it's just, like my teeth were just fucking loose and dangling,

you know, but I was just, I was just, you know, holding them in place. Cause I was like, I'm the only person that could stop these motherfuckers right now. And when they threw another grenade on me, I was like, fuck, they can't, I don't have what I need to deal with this. I can't, they have the position to tackle advantage

in this sterile.. I can't, they have the position to tackle advantage in this stairwell. And so I just like, I just started going straight up. I was like, go get any Molly and security forces that you can find now and get them up here. And I said that very calmly just now. I was yelling it. And, uh...

You know, basically, whoever they could muster up there, I was like, I was just going up and down the line. Like, this is your fucking country. These motherfuckers are right here. I was just going straight up pat and speech on them. Like, and... I was like, you, you know, fucking

shale, they don't speak English. And I'm just like English fucking screaming and like they're like, we, we, we, I'm like, you understand this, you know? And I was just so fucking for one, I was like, I was hurting. And I was using like, I couldn't, I couldn't stop. So I just used overwhelming violence to action to mask any of that. Any of the pain I was feeling right in that moment. And this is in hindsight. But I was able to like, you know, you take this shield and go over there and I basically like hand like

place this dude and like go over there and and like he got to the base of stairwell and like they took one shot, pop the shield from up here and he drops it and takes it to the house. He's like I served my country, see you later like he was gone and this was a mallion. All right next you know like get the fuck out of here. And then this guy shows up with a gas mask on his head and a pistol and he's like, I got you. He didn't say that, but he gave me a look and I was like, all right, don't let them fucking move. And then I cleared the rest of that wing,

kicking in every door I could and freeing, not just Americans, but anyone at that point. I'm like, this is now, I've locked them into a position. They couldn't go any like higher because it was a condo that they, they were trying to find what I found out later. They had some pocket litter, they were sterile. They didn't have like, they had comms, but they were burner phones and like,

they had some pocket litter that had the room numbers of like in the six series, like 600 whatever, a bank. And that was where their France crew was staying. So like they flew, air France would fly in daily there. So their flight crews would stay in a certain wing every time. And they were trying to get over just like I was to the certain wing or bank of rooms and our paths crossed very early in this process

and they were no longer able to, it went from killing and making as much of an impact as they wanted to or could to survival and barricaded themselves. And so they didn't kill another innocent person once they met me in that stairwell. It just took them, it took the rest of the day for me to clear through and then the French came from the assault force from Burkina Faso, the neighboring country, and one of my old teammates that was embedded with them, helping them target and do things. He hopped on a bird with them, there was like 12 of them. But when they showed up, it was like almost 1 p.m.

I ran into the stairwell with them at like like six hours later. Yeah, it was like eight something when I encountered them in that stairwell and 8.8, 30 a.m. No, some four. Probably 8.45. It was only an hour from getting Terry out of there. Or less, I don't know.

But the... My point was when I, like, I kicked him one door and that wing and there was a dude in Western dress just like with his shot right through this head. And I was like, look back at the door. I was like, they're holes in the door. Like, how the fuck did he get hit?

And after I cleared the room, I was like, there's no one in here. And yeah, because when I kicked it in, like the dead bowl and the throw latch both broke off the door. So I cleared all of it, right? And cleared it out of the door frame. And I was like, it really bothered me, not just the fact that he was like, obviously, one of the people that were killed, innocent, the people that were killed,

but even in that, I was like, this doesn't make sense. Like, why, you know, from a physics perspective, I was like, what are you doing? And I found out, you know, because I went back with the FBI, almost in an unhealthy manner of times, to do my own sensitive site exploitation, but really trying to make sense of it all. We'll put a suit on and I'll go back in there, like, every day, for days and days. I didn't know how much... how many times I'd a suit on and look back in there like every day. For days and

days. I didn't know how much how many times I'd get a chance to go back in there if at all. But they were knocking on doors and then if anyone that would answer their door, they would just like even just through the people, not people, but the the thrall actually engaged to hotel, right? So it like shuts it in itself. And once you let it go, I mean, they would knock lightly in this one, he answered the door, but just stuck his head, through the crack, he was like looking through the crack and they just smoked him right there,

through the crack in the door. I think they didn't have a fucking chance, man. Damn. I think they didn't fucking chance, man. Damn. And... But I do know that... It was the most exposed I've ever felt... Like, for a long, a long time,

and then when that, that troop came from the Burkina Faso, like, I finally was just like, all right, let's fucking go. Like, and I was like, hey, here's a deal. Like, I went over there and I was like, to the commander, I'm like, who's the fucking charge here? Who's in charge here? I'm like, here's the thing. Like, right here, we got, I got to pin down,

like, I can take you right to it. And they're like, oh, okay, okay. I'm like, okay, okay, let's go. And I was pretty apt still. And like, cause they're still in there. Yeah, right? Still barricaded in the same room. It was, it was like a storage closet.

So if you think about the landing opened into, there was a door that opened into the condo, that metal door. And then to the left of that on the landing was like a storage closet, like two two storage closet deep. They didn't have much room, but man, they were there. They had tied up all their bandaliers and were loading mags, while one of them was shooting and single shot, like they were there to stay and die there.

And like there was no way of flanking them at that point, at least not from my perspective, like there there was no direct way of flanking without having some sort of climbing ability or you know, coming in from the roof. So, um, also just taking a step back, you know, and having to like spread that out with, you know, with the French, like, to be able to promise all, which was awesome. Like, and I think this is like really ironic or funny, but they were like, oh yeah, you come with us, but just stay in the back.

I'm like, Roger that. I've been up for an all fucking day. I'll stay in the back with you boys. Let's go. And then I'm like, you know, doing all that, what's going on? It's just taking so long, like, it's all this commotion up front. And I'm, you know, now I'm like,

there's no, they shouldn't be, like there's gunshots and I'm like, who the fuck are they fighting with right now? And there's one of the mollent, like, security forces do, like shot one of the fucking French, like, scary force dudes, like, shot one of the fucking French, like, in the top of his helmet. I was more afraid of like, once I, I went in first, like, I, it was like me against the fucking shooters. And then after that, it was like, given people permission to go in and anyone and

everyone, like, whomever and with a gun. And it's like, that was scary as shit. Like, I was like, how do you, you know, filter through like, I can, you know, discriminate a threat and a friendly, but that's difficult even through the haze and the fog, you know, and But that's difficult even through the haze and the fog, you know, and Yeah, like they They shot one of the friends right and in the top of his fucking helmet and he walking wounded, you know Bleeding but we were able to package him up Get him out of there and then next thing though like now they're down in a shelter and they're like You guys want to intermingle in the teams now? And I'm like, right to that.

And I just kept getting further than I'm like, in the team team, just flowing with them. And that's the testament to the ability to not be so indoctrinated and it took me two rooms to kind of adapt to their techniques and knock it in the way. Because at that point, I could follow my sword here. You guys were doing this all fucking wrong if I wanted,

but not that they were. I was just extremely grateful to be a part of any competent assault force when my boys were getting spun up in North Carolina. And the guys in Germany were loading in the sea with 30. But they were 10, 12 hours away, 18 hours away. So to have them there, and just to see and bear witness to pure evil. And people just following, like the American that was killed was in a service elevator area that if they, a group of them, like 15 of them, if they would have just kept going,

went right, like a turn, and then freedom, down the hallway, exit freedom. They went through that kitchen into this service elevator, and there's bodies in the elevator, in between the doors, like closed on them, and then outside of it, they're all executed from like point blank range. Damn, I can't even have in the head face.

And you can't on see that. The smell. And they didn't have a fucking chance. So people ask me, they're like, even the ambassador, they're like, why did you come? You're an American hero, like, why did you react that way? Oh, well, sir, you gotta admit,

like if anyone should have reacted that way, it's someone that's been trained in this for, since like, I should rescue you and like, it's my, I have the ability, so it was my responsibility to act. They go, I'm not gonna just sit here and fucking hope and dream and, and like, I'm gonna do something.

And by doing something, the impact of that, now, I'm on you, the impact impact that's had on me as a person, I'm only starting to heal from. And my family, I gave it all, I died in that stairwell. And I couldn't, I couldn't... I just maintained being my priority was to... Well, no, I have the ability, right? So it's my responsibility.

Like, everyone, I stayed in that country for... almost four months by myself. No one came and checked on me. All these embassy folks were having like these crisis response teams come in and like medical doctors and fucking psychs and stuff. Come in and do these evaluations. I was like, oh, those are cool.

What's going on? That seems just cool. All right, I'll be over here. Just fucking lick in a window, you know? Like pulling security security facing out and Like I was I was hurting so bad and I couldn't I didn't know what that like how I Didn't I couldn't really put word to like what I was feeling know, fear and but anger is easy to mask that. So I was just really angry. And I remember, I don't remember this, but I call my wife that night.

When I got back to the room, my room by myself, fucking deathly afraid. And I just started boozing to numb it. And I just remember, like, she said I call, it was just like bawling. I was just like bawling and she just was asking me, like, oh my God, Kyle, what's wrong, what's wrong? And then she started getting, I remember this, because to me, it was like a point where I was like,

you can't help me. So I pushed her further away. Because she was like, oh my god, what's wrong? It was like hysteria. And I was like, you can't help me. And what I really needed and wanted was to hold her and to hug her and to hug her children. But I couldn't, I know And no one came and saved me from me. And everyone relied on me to be the savior if something were to happen again. They were like, let's just rally at Kyle's house.

He'll figure it out. And I'm like, yeah, I'll figure it the fuck out, man. And I'm just fucking losing myself completely, trying to make sense of the physical ones to my brain and the psychological and emotional, and I was like, this is all too much. So I just, I drink. And I seek to comfort in an extramarital affair.

Cause those are the two things that were super comforting. And I coped with those, and that only kept me just barely afloat and kept me from had I not done those two things, and they both fed into just more misery, but I don't think I would have made it back. I just wanted to fucking destroy myself and everything around me.

And it's not about one specific event. That was the catalyst that unlocked so much other trauma in my life from my first visual memory being traumatic. And it's just like, that's when things started to become unmanageable in my life. How did that day end? When I got to the barricade. We, I mean, we got, we killed them eventually that like we had the minda like, like bounding around and coming in through like a rooftop thing and then crawling down into this condo and locking them down from underneath and then below.

And I mean, I think the French threw everything they had, like flashbang and like concussive grenades, but it was just flying right past them. And they had this corridor where they could just like, just spray down this hallway and then they had the stairwell. So they had them locked down. And so we couldn't come up from underneath. Like we had the dude that was, the furniture that was holding the shield guy. That was his job.

When you're the fuck shield dude. And I was like, and he was like this young, very 20-something-year-old kid. And I remember this because, like, he got shot, I think through his, like, broke his hand, and then maybe got, like, shot through his, was like the superficial part of his arm or whatever. So bandaged it him up. But I was like, he got within a foot of this corner

where the barricaded guys were in this storage closet. Just to get close enough, but took like seven rounds in this fucking shield from a foot away and was fucking, was ballin' after that. And the guys weren't dead. They threw in, because the guy behind him was able to get close enough to throw an actual offensive frag grenade on top of these cats,

which was this huge faux pas of like, you don't bring frags on a hostage rescue, man. I might, well, what about in this case? So I know that we came back and I was able to train, I came back and was able to bring the tactical lessons learned to change the way we think and train. I mean, that's my legacy there. It's not like to make an impact on that type of organization

I think is massive. And it's not like, oh, look at me. It's just like, we evolve as a fighting force. And that's why it's so capable, but as a collective. But like, even the grenade, like, round top of this, these cats, like, we had to go in, like, Russia ran upstairs and we were like, finish these guys off. Cause they had to go in, like, Russia ran upstairs, and we were like, finished these guys off.

Cause they're like fucking, you know, like, zombies coming out of the shit. But I ate a lot of like, overpressure, and I guess I just never realized how much that impacted, was impacting me. Like, because I didn't have a physical frag or bullet hole, like those, there's like the wounds you can't see that, that saying, you know, and I'm like,

it makes so much sense now. Like, because it changes so much about your, it changes as they're your character. Like, everything that used to be easier becomes more difficult and cognitive processing and function. But we were able to clear those guys out or kill them. And then that we, I still stayed in the hotel for another three hours clearing the rest of the hotel, like at room by room.

And I didn't, I didn't say, it was like six, six PM three hours clearing the rest of the hotel, like room by room. And I didn't say, it was like six PM when I called, you know, objective secure. One got one American killed, confirmed, you know, their body, because I got a physical description from the country team and she was one, I needed a tower, guitar was one of the ones that were initially killed in that service-alverter area. But, and I went back to the embassy,

it's still like my pistol belt on, and just like, like, just like, like, still got fucking shit all over me, like, gunpowder and stuff. And uh, the country team's there just like waiting for me to brief them. I'll circle that. And I'm like, it's up. Like, tell us all about it. Like, am I okay? People just looked at me differently after that, you know?

And I was like, what the fuck did you think this was? I think, did you think this, oh, you're worried now your kids? What the fuck are your kids here? I think if there was an adult for operators here, you think this is a good country? There's not very many of us. My

operator number is 965 since 1978. That's not me bragging. That's me just to conceptualize how small we are. I was one of less than a thousand still. And it just blew my mind. They're like, what are we gonna do about our kids? And I'm like, get him the fuck out of this country. Like, I got it. It's just not where it is. Like, I know we want to spread our free democracy everywhere, but end of your time.

This one hasn't baked enough, and he's going back in the oven. And it's like, it's just like the ignorance piece of it. And then masking it with like, like the, you know, like the partying and like the social aspects of it. And, not getting it going wrong, there's great missions that the State Department is doing and spreading, you know, and, and truly like helping others.

I'm just like, why did this catch you guys like with your pants down? Yeah. You want to take a break? Mm. Just take a break. Thank you for listening to the Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes, and leave the Sean Ryan Show review.

We read every review that comes through, and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show. All right Kyle, we got... you took pictures and the days after this happened and you got them here so let's go through some of these. So this is where they were barricaded, correct? Yeah, so the storage closet, it was like two room storage closet that was if you were a you know button hook around to the right of this doorway That's where they were held up at and that's where they were tied the band leaders. They were in this room If you were to go right Okay into this and then button hook around there was a

storage type closet room You know Maintenance stuff or whatever was in it, but it didn't go anywhere else. It there was no escape from that So and that door was closed, right so That door to me once we were able to open it from the other side signifies the lake and end to a door that was they closed, you know and we opened it and that's where you know the Sheila guys will get close enough to

To be able to drop a grenade on top of them in that landing Just to just to disorient them enough to finish them off. And, you know, the door itself, it's a symbol to me of just carnage and... ...and of an end to what I didn't think was gonna end. You have a picture of that door too. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that door is like, I took it from the hotel and turned it into a beer pong table

for a rest of that trip. Are you serious? Yeah, it makes for a gnarly beer pong table with all the gunshot, like the ricoch... Yeah. There was nothing else to do, man. Yeah. I wanted anything and everything to just get your mind off it.

And using my own like bravado or like that operator, macho, like, yeah, it's a facade. Like, his underneath it was this scary little boy that just wanted someone to hold his hand and say, man, it's okay. It's not gonna be okay. And obviously looking back, I can say that, but going through it was like, I wanted to make sense of it. And because I didn't believe in things I couldn't see and the things I saw, I couldn't believe. And that's why like looking at the stairwell,

like coming up, like, as I'm walking up, the stairs, this is my perspective, or this is his perspective, this perspective looking down, and that's me looking up, but you can see there's like a, I'll give you the photo, but there's a small ricochet in between our field of view, and that's what's depicted on my arm. That same little ricochet is there too,

and this is a scene from like, I'm still building it, but it's like a ghost. Me running out and then kind of fading into the darkness. Damn. And so he was up and you were looking up at him. Yeah, so you're not only going flight as stairs as like this, you're here pointing up. Yeah, so I'm going up.

Then there's a small ending and then it went up and then we caught each other like right here. So he's got the angle and the high ground and I'm like here and trying to sweep back as I'm like running upstairs. And this is where like not having your mates like close enough to you. Like, yeah, there's a lot of things to ate me up.

Like, there's a few shots that I know I took that I can't account for. And I just let that consume me. Because what if I killed somebody that didn't attend? And I let that destroy my, I'm better than that. I'm better than that. So then it would just,

and then I would just like start like these negative self-talk, like stuff and I'm just a shitty operator, I'm a shitty person, I'm a shitty father, I'm a shitty husband. What would a shitty people do? Shitty things. I'm like I do shitty stuff shitty stuff, but hide it.

And a lot of this I wanted, like I talk about that phone call with my wife and how I feel like she didn't have a chance. She didn't have a chance. It wasn't fair. She didn't have a chance to, for one, why is it on her to give me something? I need, like, I need to be held, comforted, told it's okay. You're gonna be okay.

Without her knowing that, you know, that's like an expectation and an unfair one where she's not in a position and Have I ever opened up? Up to that point. Hey, I'm actually afraid. I'm scared to death right now. And I just want you to tell me, that it's gonna be okay. And I didn't have a trust.

I couldn't trust in any other human being for my first visual memory, like, because if I wasn't in control, I got hurt. And I damn sure wanted to believe in trusting God, but if I can't trust in other humans, like, I saw it the other way. I was like, I can't truly believe in something I can't see. But I never lost sight of there being something out there bigger than me. As much as I used confidence or arrogance or the mask or to mask, you know, how I really felt, like I was vulnerable and exposed. And I was vulnerable and exposed.

And I was like, oh shit. It's like the, the odds, you know? Like, they're, they got behind the thing. It's just like a, it's just a dude, you know? The odds are just fucking dude. Where's the odds? It's just a dude. And it's like, you mean, I'm just a dude.

Like, behind all this boyish good looks and charm, I'm not only am I just a dude, I'm a human being, man. And forgiving myself for all the things that I had no control of that I didn't need to be like, forgiving myself for, because from my childhood, and not until I was able to, like, he without sin cast the first stone. I mean, that's been something I've hung on to, even in the darkest days where I've been like, like, it would manifest itself in self-harm, self-love, self-hate, like hate, sabotage, in my own personal life, because you know what?

I was like, I don't know how to make sense of what I've been through my whole life, and it's just been, I've seen chaos and pure evil at its fucking closest. So I believe that that's just what I need. And in order for me to defeat evil, I gotta be more evil. So it started taking this twisted form of like, my service was, was to feed into my ego,

because my ego was my sense of self. And once that became exposed through, you know, getting arrested beyond this and a couple times. And it's, you can't hide. It's like, oh, and posture. And but then it was all about like, well, perceptions. Like I'm going to abstain from alcohol or go to this treatment center because my goal was to be the best operator I could be and team leader eventually in that unit. And I even asked like, Psych, I've been in talk therapy for six years. I've done about three neck shots, the sailing eight blocks. I've done intensive,

eventation, therapy for combat related stress and substance abuse. I've done the Army substance abuse programs. Always for someone else though, and never for myself. Always for someone else though, and never for myself. Not only until I could, not until I truly saw myself from the outside, from an out-of-body experience where I, you had an out-of-body experience?

Yeah, one was up October last year. where I... You had an out-of-body experience? Yeah. What was that? October last year. What was that like? What'd you say? That's all just the ugliness. That's all... That's all me for...

Not what I thought I was, but like who I was. What were you doing when that happened? I was driving back from Texas and I had my daughter with me and I was doing internships in out in Austin and I was like, I got to make it back. There was something I had to make it back for and I was trying internships and I don't know, so I was like, I gotta make it back. There was something I had to make it back for, and I was trying to rebuild my relationship with my wife, and this was the third attempt, and we started dating, and I was spiraling, man.

And I was running towards the only thing that I've ever had that's been stable and never lost sight of me, the pure, kind, loving person. And that's my wife. And I had my oldest daughter with me and I went to the bathroom and took a bump or cocaine. Where I thought was cocaine. And I'm sitting in the driver's seat, just got cast, like, started sweating.

And then I look over at her and I'm like, I don't feel so good. Can you drive this next hour or so? And then I just like, that's when I could see myself. I was, I almost died from fentanyl overdose. Damn, man. And they had to knock at me and like, this all happened in front of my daughter. Like, not the use of the drug, but, man,

I could rationalize anything. I'm like, what? I didn't do it in part of her. So, because I had started messing around with, like, things that can numb you in this space of being a jobless or an operator without a mission, when I got my neck fused and then left my wife, and then I went and did the whole,

like I was gonna take over the breaching Sergeant Major position and I was like, oh, once I decided I'm not gonna be operational anymore, I told them. And that was the hardest thing for me to, to say, but there were so many other things that I knew from chronic pain and sign me up, like migraines, all these things just started really

coming to the forefront. After I got my neck fused and my grains, all these things just started really coming to the forefront. After I got my neck fused and my body, like, I was just like, I got so many other things, I got to work on. But then I was like, but they that position, like, I felt like that was the way for me to give back another five years without being operational, but staying involved. And then I went and helped out with the course for one day and it was around blast. And it had been seven months since then, between. And I had a migraine for eight days straight, like debilitating. Like I couldn't get out of bed.

And to the point where there was nothing, I just thought those were D-Fodays. That was another D-Foday. Telling others, it worked. You needed some sort of central nervous system, suppressing. Like it's neuropathic, like radiculopathy and nerve damage.

And all these things that I was just like, oh, it's only a beer, it's only a thing, it's gonna take it away. And culturally, it's okay. Socially, I can do this, you know? And then I couldn't do it because my drinking had been exposed, you know, because it was, I was a high-functional alcoholic.

I could perform. And then if I had something that day or the next day, I wouldn't drink. So I rationalize, I'm not alcoholic. I'm abusing it from time to time. My, like I talk about using anything to mask an everyone in the motion. To me, as abuse, if you're using it,

it could be sex, it could be work, it could be alcohol, like substance, it doesn't matter. But could be work, it could be alcohol, like substances, it doesn't matter. But that's another way for me to rationalize always going back to it. Once I get under control, then I'm like complacency. I'm feeling real good about myself. And my sense of self, my identity was my job. It always has been because no one ever showed me as a man, as a contributing member of society what it looks like to be those things without

your work being your identity. And through all those ups and, like to me, I view rock bottom as my inability to lower my standards faster than my circumstances. So I always dig a whole deeper. And the next one I would have dug would have been my own grave, for sure, or have been in jail for rest of my life. There's three options. Those two, and then pushing a shopping cart under an overpass, because I'm cemented in PTSD, where no one understands me. And the comparing of trauma is the problem.

And it's the reason that people are going and making the most selfish decision there is, and that's to take their own life. And I'm not above it. I've been very close to what I think is the space or in hopelessness. And that's the most scared I've ever been. And that's happened to me since 2016

on three different occasions, where I drove myself into hopelessness feeling, and alone, and a crowd. And no longer can be, I knew that I was, I can't be in bars or this or that, because it was overly stimulating. And then I would just drink and then I'd become something else.

And then it was just this, I used to joke around with mates and stuff and be like, how dark pastor took over, bro. That's not a fucking joke, man. It's like a serious thing where we compartmentalize to do things at such a high level over and over. But if we don't think that we have to unpackage that at some point, then it's not to do things at such a high level over and over. But if we don't think that we have to unpackage that, at some point, then it becomes a dark passenger.

And then we just kind of culturally just say, ah, you know, it's just, someone else is driving behind the wheel right now, you know? That's not, it's not okay. Yeah. Like it's just, it's minimizing, it's minimizing the impact that that's having. It's not a split personality, it's not, it's you. And you need to give it the energy if you ever want to heal and recover because you will.

And I am. And only through the spiritual awakening I had, where I truly saw myself, as many holes as I dug, this was the most, like, closest to, like, well for one death, but like, I could see clearer than day

through the haze of just, I see that face, like, they just passed out. Like, I'm gonna choke on my own damn, whatever. Just laying there sitting down at the seat. And just like the reason I think I'm still here is because I never, even though I never really knew how to love myself, like I would never have taken my own life because I would never do that to my girls, my daughters,

and my kids, I just wouldn't do it. And because I love them more than I love myself, and that's a definition of codependency. And now, only through seeing that, and then truly, like not having a reason or, oh, I'm sorry, I was just fucked up or drunk. Daddy doesn't act that way.

Or I'm just so mad at your mom deflecting and we're just being honest with him about, hey, I am dealing with so much and I'm projecting and I'm on you guys. They've seen all these aspects of me, but this time There was no hiding there was no words that could explain It was just Roger that and that's when I started my Path to recovery and and alcohol, in AA,

and acceptance has been the biggest thing for me. It's the first step, powerlessness. I viewed that as weakness my whole life, but it's an opportunity for strength and growth. And man, just by accepting that I'm an alcoholic, holy shit, It's opened up like a floodgate of feeling and connections and the biggest one is the power of greater than myself. Step two, believing in it. Not just believing in it, not just paying it lip service or

acknowledging that power exists out there. For me, it's trust. And when I truly trusted in God, I've been able to communicate with daily. And now I can trust other human beings. And it's almost like being like a little child on like just happier than a pig and shit every day because there's so much joy that I just is been there. I just couldn't see it or feel it for what it was and it's there and that's why like I'm looking at this 10 months of sobriety where I'm like, man. Aren't we all blessed? Yeah. This is such a like, and it's never... It's not too late unless we say it is.

And there's... And you're not alone. And it's okay. I'm telling you, it's okay to not be okay. We can do incredible things as human beings for good and for evil. And... No one thing, act, decision, like you should define who you are as a person, but it does, and I let it, and it doesn't have to though.

Um, what was the last, they're not that special. What was the last straw for you? What made you quit drinking? Was it the fentanyl over there? That was the other, that's what, that was the last drinking? Was it the fentanyl over those? That was the end of the dollar. That's what, that was the last thing cleaned it up after that. Yeah, because I was able to mask through,

you know, I found, I never really played around with drugs and because I couldn't in the army, it was like, oh, no, you're gonna get drug tested in this and that. So I was like, I never had a desire to. Without call though, I was like, and I never had a desire to. With alcohol though, it was like, if I look back at the signs, I'm like, mm, I don't think I've had a very successful drinking career, how many?

Like, at all. And I can actually look back and there isn't a happy, a truly happy feeling that's been associated with alcohol. And me. So that's having an unhealthy relationship with a substance. And that's called, to me, an allergy. And it's not weakness. It's an alcoholism.

I measured it. I quantified it. Well, my dad, and he drank a rack of beer, a case of beer, whatever night. I don't do that. I don't have to drink to function. And that's how I would just rationalize anything. And just like, when I got exposed to cocaine

and strip clubs in Texas, I was like, wow, this is, this numbs everything. And I don't have to drink. But then it wears off. So it's like, I can hide and function because I'm at such a deficit cognitively and emotionally and I can't let people see that. So I just want to numb it. And I've always been looking for ways of numbing those things. And even the night of the rannison,

like, when I told Erica, I was like, you can't, I have my mind, I'm like, she can't help me. It was like, just let me talk to the kids and just start bawling. And just told them all I loved them. And from then on, like, I was like, I'm out. And when I say that, like, that relationship I got in, the extramural affair, like, that woman was the only one

that actually, like there, a lot of people were like, oh man, are you doing the art? Like you asked me how to men to go. And I knew what you meant by it. And I knew when I answered it, like I am actually okay. And I can say that with confidence,

whereas before, I would always just, yeah man, I'm good. I feel fine. You know, and it's like, wait a minute. Like, is it lip serviceers? It like coming from the heart. And to me, I was just, I was looking for somebody that could like ask me a question without me prompting it. And you you know she asked me straight up like, hey man, how are you doing? I'm like, good. Say it today and she's like, oh no, no, no, like seriously, how are you doing? Are you okay? And I went, no. And then she hugged me.

And that was exactly what I needed in that moment and time. And that led me to an extra marital affair that led me to, she saved me from me there. I stayed there for almost four months, just like no mission. Maintaining relationships. And I went back home, moved out, abandoned my children, tried to pick up and start a life with this woman in a place where it was never meant. It wasn't a reality. It was just like some twisted blanket. It was a blanket that

I needed, like just a wet blanket like a like I was. And you know, I've kept that door open even slightly. And the only first person that came and actually checked on me was when I was when we were redeploying. And only because she called, Erica called my chain of command. And I was like, how's not okay. Like, what are you guys fucking doing? Were they helpful? Were they doing anything?

Well, that got to my team leader at the time, and he flew to like, see me in person, and it was like crying, because he was like, I had no idea. And I'm like, yeah, man, I've been like, waking up every night and seeing these like shadows through the mosquito net, like on my bed. And it's just this stuff, like,

just reliving it, locking myself layers into this room or house by myself. And just couldn't, couldn't ever relax. Like not even just relax, like, it's a state of hyper-vigilance that just I stayed in for a couple of years. And like different therapists I've talked to or like people are introduced in your life at different times or different reasons.

But this one in particular was a psychiatrist and they said something something to me in 2018 Because I was asking the heart some hard questions with my therapist. I was like hey Am I doing more harm than good by by continuing to stay in this environment? Because I was starting to see things a little bit more differently. What environment like the In the command no environment? I stayed operational beyond all of it and like the answer was no. I'm doing a lot more damage than good. But the it was said to me is it would depends on what your what's your goal? Is your end goal be the best opportunity you can be? And I feel like that's a cop out. When you work for a command and like, your whole job is to keep us in the fight. But we're no good to you not in the fight.

So let's keep you in the fight. And I know you're wrong. He's not putting words in my mouth, but yeah, you're right. And then the conversely where an outside psychiatrist is like telling me, hey man, I commend you for making it this far. This is two and a half, three years from the removed from the ratisan. He's like, I commend you for making this far. But he's like, there's a fire still burning, man. Whether the embers, it's still embers or whatever, it's still a fire.

Whether it's raging, you need to put the fire out completely. And you're never gonna do that where here. And I was like, the fuck did you say? It's me. I was like, there's no way. And he's like, you said this to me. He's like, you've had Delta for the past however many years and you need Disney, man. You need Disney?

And I said, you can go fuck yourself, sorry. Ah! I wasn't ready to hear it, man. I just wasn't ready to believe it or hear it. And it's so true though, if you think about, like, like ER nurses or docs where they're in big cities or miniskills and they're just, they're disassociated. They're desensitized to life and death because they're like,

up, we couldn't say this one. Next, you know, like, you couldn't say this one, next, you can't stay in that environment without moments of periods of reprieve to reconnect with humanity, but to function in that space, like you have to be able to desensitize, like, oh, I just picked up this dude's skull,

I shot in the face, because I'm trying to put his face back together to get a photo, that's him, right? Like, all these things, like, they're not normal. They're nothing normal about anything I've done in my career. And that's okay, because I have a new mission and it's still to help others,

but now I'm doing it, having helped myself and continuing to help myself first, and love myself and build my sense of self from God and from within, from an altruistic mindset, and then be selfless. So, I truly, where I told you, I have gained my sense of being and worth from external validation my whole life. And that's just not the case. Not anymore.

Now I'm doing it because I know there's more for me to do and it's to help others, because that is the joy that I get as a human being, like sharpening other people's edges and skills and staying sharp and connected with them and having conversations and communicating and knowledge transfer and being present and being grateful of this wonderful country that we live in. And this long life that I have to live, I had to meet with, hopefully, my wife and my children's children. You know, because that's my legacy is not what I've done. Like what awards I've gotten or what rank I made or where CEO job title this that it's it's how we Show up

And raise our children and protect them and then their children's children like that is our legacy So that's how I change the generational like norms that I've been chained to. And I was never going to truly, like, fully do that, continuing to operate in that space I was in. And damn sure we're going to happen in a place where you struggle to be mediocre. And you never, you never really measure up, you know, especially when you don't know how to measure up to anything.

Yeah. So you just perform. And... And then... You never really figure out who you are. You know, I've said it... A handful of times. But, um...

You know, And a lot of people hate me for it and the community, which I really don't give a fuck about. But I've said that moving farther away, every time I move farther and farther away from the special operations community, the the happier I get, the less stress I feel, happy are I get the less stress I feel. And it took me a long time to come to that realization, though. It got so I realized this fucking community is so toxic that I got to the point where I wasn't even going to interview operators anymore. I wanted completely out. Didn't want to know anybody. you operators anymore. I wanted completely out. Didn't want to know anybody.

We want to fucking talk to anybody. I still struggle with it, you know, but. What do you think the biggest part of that is? Like, what do I think it is? Yeah, like, I think it comes from, I think it's ingrained from training. It's who's the fastest runner, who's the fastest swimmer, who's the best shot? Who's got fastest swimmer? Who's the best shot?

Who's got the most kills? Who's got the most operations? Who's got the most time in who's the best in the kill house? Who's the best sniper who's got the most jumps? Who's got the most qualifications? Who's got the most ribbons? Who's got the most ribbons with valor? Who's on the biggest stop And that's every fucking thing that happens in these communities as a competition. It never fucking ends and that brings jealousy. Well, if that becomes, it's great to have standards and units to metric, like to measure something. Well, you never really know where you're at in space, right? And in your mates can never really

Like appreciate or you can't appreciate there, you know where they're at like fully But but to dwell on it though to to to to become well This is high school, right? where what do you be shit cuz fucking You know or they're oh course time or they're fucking like this this that and dude is fucking like Well, it needs to be shit because fucking, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, fuck. And I'm telling you, like, it's not deterring me from entering this space. It's only, it's almost like motivating me to hit people with a little bit of fucking humility

and vulnerability and guess what? Doesn't mean I can't still like perform on demand. Performance on demand is what a measure of like, what a great shooter and a good shooter is. It's consistently shooting good. Like it's not like every now and again shooting this or like it and that's just one one aspect. This is there's so much experience that we have from being at war for 20 plus years. In special operations, even being smaller and smaller and more elite, but the more elite you get,

the more unhealthy disassociation you have with where you stand in humanity. And a part of that, that's not everyone. I don't wanna over generalize. Some people have a very firm grounded, and those are usually men of faith there. But there are very many of them. And there's not.

And openly of faith and sober. And generally they are not well liked. Yeah, they're gonna get shit on because they don't go out and big boy at night man, big boy in the morning. You know, like, and trust me, like I poured in my face off most of the time everywhere I went, almost all the time. Like, because we train hard and we play hard. And it was this reprieve that I have that I could count on.

Anywhere I went, we go all over the world, turning in all these places and doing some amazing things. But for me, it was just, it was feeding into this, like, this facade that was, it was only, it was just matter of time for it, it crumbled. And then everybody just saw this scared little boy down there, like, just wanting someone to tell him it's okay. It wasn't its fault.

You know, and it's a, and then normalizing those behaviors as a parent, like as I've learned how to be a father and from a very young age and it's like, well, they don't really understand how hard it could be. You know, you guys got it easy. That's the way I parented for a while. Anytime shit got real, like, why are they bitching? Why are they crying? I don't get this. You know, and why should they get it? And why do I have to make it a thing? But those are the circumstances of the environments

that I was raised in, and that's where I'm challenging myself to not continue to adopt those and break it. And I'm working on that. I'm working and I have a ton of work to do because like, they're not gonna always love you. They're not gonna always be there. I'm a perfect example of it. You gotta show up and do the work and they deserve every bit of you and they need it and they need you to protect them and if I die tomorrow, I know that I am on the right path of mending and healing those relationships and prioritizing them outside of myself and God, they are it. Like, you know, in my own, like, energy, output. And when

when those are, like, when those are healed, they're continued to be maintained. There's maintenance. There's no starter finish line with them. But I have a lot of work to do still. And I would alter the woman that's sitting sitting behind us. You know, the fact that I'm, and she's my best friend and the first person I love to hate. Why do you think she gave you a third chance? I mean, last night at dinner, I'm just going to be honest. When you guys walked in the door, I was like, oh, shit, his wife has cancer. And then we sat out and we got to talk and she told me that her hair fell out

because she's so fucking stressed out about what's going on at home. And I was, that's heavy. That's fucking real heavy. Why do you think she gave you a third chance? I'm asking God every day about that. I don't think there's no logical reason other than God for her. Her spiritual process is kept her in the beginning the first time it was me. I think she had a lot that she was still learning about her own trauma and the work that she

needed to start doing. She started doing it. And I say me, meaning the appeal of being in a relationship. And with me, and making it work, no matter what, because it's our covenant and her believing in that. But then now, through the second, God is the only thing that's... And I used to make fun of her about it. You have your God.

Where the fuck are they? make fun of her about it. Like, you have your God. Where the fuck are they? You know, and I was just so ugly. And there's something, it's powerful, man. And when that relationship can see through, you know, because I also felt so alone and didn't know how to trust in others. And I started developing claustrophobia in all these different panic attacks. I was like, what the fuck is this? And at the end of the day, like, burying all of it, right?

Burying the way of the world. Like, I've been able to, like, give that to God and then share to another, with another human being. And because of her, she's, she's shown me the example that I need to follow in my spiritual condition. And we got a lot of work to do as partners and, and still as individuals. But have you ever asked her what she gave you a third chance? We talked about this recently. It's the only reason is because of God. There was nothing that, because before I think it was like she saw through all the ugliness, right? And I hadn't fully I still had a foot in the door

And I was like, I don't feel like I can because I wasn't capable of paying bills on time and myself and running my own house and I was like man, I suck Help me, you know, I want to quick I want to escape I want to Here come bail me out of this, you know? And I don't have another, there's not another one of those. I've already cashed that one in. So now it's like, why are we doing it? Like why is she putting up with me still? And she's my best friend.

with me still, and she's my best friend. And the only person that's ever, I've ever tried to trust and trust, and trust. But that's also the person that I've inflicted so much fucking pain on. And now we're just dealing with all the residual, like triggering things and pain cycles. But if there's anyone else that I wanna go to the grave, like holding my hand, if they could put me in the earth,

it's her. But dance your question, I don't know, other than God, and that spiritual process and that belief, and that in me, you know, when she can't see it, because I'm throwing out every bit of the, it's the ugly, the evil, the monster, When I was disconnected from humanity for two years of my life. Like, she's sitting right there, if you want to ask her. Why have you given me a third chance? Erica.

Because I've always believed in him and Through my own faith in God because I believe in God and I think there is anything possible But I saw through this the mask and the hurt and the pain and I knew that My husband came back from Molly. His five flesh came back, but he actually did die in the hotel that day. And so seeing him, seeing glints of him throughout that, like he's still in there, like having that hope. And I'm just seeing that. It's been a process and still seeing that he is there, you know, and coming out. There's a strong woman. Strong human being. Strongest person I've ever met in my life. How are your kids?

I got a lot of pain, a lot of things I need to, like, truly, like, put the appropriate amount of energy towards the healing. Are they going to watch this? I hope so. You got anything to say to him? I love each and every one of you, Ethan. I raised you since you were four and couldn't ask for a better, more capable son. And the stars, the limits, man.

And I'm sorry. And Kyla, you guys just made me so proud. And I want you to know that I will always be there to support you. And I know I've leaned on you guys more than you should ever have been leaned on to give me my sense of self love as a father. And it's, I'm working and I'm continuing to do that work to be the best father and hopefully if you guys bless me as a grandfather for your children and Kaylee and Kennedy, you guys are okay too.

No, I love all of you. And what I did doesn't define who I am and what I'm going to do is just put the fraction of what I owe you as a father. I love you. Thank you for letting me do that. You're welcome. They're gonna love that. I hope so.

That's the biggest thing for me is, like, I feel like everyone's just still disappointed in me. Well, but that's the shame piece and the fissoph forgiveness and belief and... There's probably a lot of pride in there too. Yeah. You know? We got a hell of a dad. Yeah. Yeah. How are people do you think you saved in that hotel?

A lot of fucking people. I even, even now, like, not saying that, like, I, I know it was exactly where I needed to be, like, when I needed to be there, and I couldn't, I can't even say my own marriage. I can't even like prioritize my children over everyone else. You know, I'm still struggling with it. And I just know that I'm not going to hang my head on that. I'm going to the fact that I was there and saved the people I saved. Now they're going to have children. They're going to have children because of my direct actions. And conversely, the people that I've taken off this earth, the intimacy of taking another

human being's life, that's eaten at me. And I've wore that on my soul. And I'm not looking for anymore fights, man. My fight has been ongoing and now I'm giving it the energy it needs. And it's right fucking here. It's having these hard discussions. At the end of the day, I'm gonna lay my head down tonight, and I'm gonna pray, and I'm gonna,

not dwell on all the things I didn't do today. I'm gonna highlight a few of the things I did that I'm proud of, and then pray that I have another. And then if I wake up, man, there's fucking joy everywhere. I just got to see it, and I got to say it. So there I believe that, because I'm telling myself these things. So then I do them and truly believe in them. And as I'm doing that as a byproduct, I know it's helping others. It's just I wish I could take back all the pain I've inflicted on the people I care about most,

because I had no idea what trauma was. But anything less than nurturing can be considered traumatic. And I said it because I guess first and later, fuck, I've been traumatized my whole life. But more importantly, how much trauma have I inflicted, either directly or indirectly, to the ones I care about most? And what the fuck am I going to do with it? Or not do about it?

You can't bury it, you can, you can't avoid it. You can. I'm choosing to acknowledge the fact that I'm remorseful for the things I've done. I'm proud of the things I've done for good. And those are just, but like chapters in a story in a book that I'm still writing. And I have a lot of story to write. We're helping people by being this vulnerable to. And by the time this episode airs,

who knows how many people are going to watch it? A couple hundred thousand, maybe a couple million. There's going to be a lot of people that decide to live. And that's because you're sitting here sharing your story. And that's the part you can't quantify. Like, it's service to others. But, other than love, the principles that I've been trying to put word to, that I learned in the rooms of, uh, through my recovery, and I'm like, in like integrity.

You can't have integrity in party life, and then in others, like, yeah, I was just drunk. Like, or, you know, like, it's, there's no more of that for me. It's, no, I'm going to have those things. I'm going to build those things. And it's compassion. It's humility. It's vulnerability.

Service. And my way of serving people of like mind and shared experiences or I think those are the easiest ones for me to connect with because of my resume. Like, oh, look at this guy. He's been through some shit. Like, or he's done some really cool things or whatever. And the fact is, I'm like, yeah, and I'm human. And it's okay. I'm telling you it's okay to not be okay. But comparing traumas is the enemy in this space of veteran suicide and first responders

and it's... They call you an understand. You know, that side of it, where you isolate yourself. And then, well, I won't say something because they've been through more than me. Hear some shit, I get this all the time. Where they're like, Hey man, I'm in through some shit, but nothing like you,

and I'm a little stop. Let me explain how I've been trauma. In mind's mind, yours is yours, there's no better or worse. Like how, it's what we do with it, and how we process it, and in healthy or unhealthy ways, and then how that manifests in our lives that make us better or worse, not the trauma. Trauma's about that person's journey in life up to that point in their perspective, in that situation, in their guard, like what they've

guarded, they prepared their mind, body and spirit for, or they didn't. They were exposed, or it could be a car accident. Like, it could be a miscarriage. A woman having a miscarriage. Like, those were all equally as traumatic to me. Like, now, where they, the context piece of that person's life, that could be what tips them over the edge and takes them, and to take their own life. And who in my to say that they're trauma, well, they shouldn't have did that.

That's not bad enough. Well, fuck me. I'm the problem if I'm saying that. And then if I'm creating environments where that is now normalized, well, fuck, it was like, you and I go into this room, I go left, you go right. Some gnarly shit happens in the room. We leave, we get back to base or whatever. And I go, are you go, hey, Kyle?

I don't know, I feel about what happened in that room. And I go, I'm not like that was a Tuesday, Sean, get your shit back on. We're going back out. What am I doing? I'm perpetuating like an environment where don't fucking ever say anything isn't okay or weird or off.

Oh, but if it's a tactical misjudgment, oh, people will fucking detonate on you. And as they should, and there's a forum for it. But like that process is like, man, what an opportunity to take as a leader in those spaces and be like, what do you mean? What's up? Those two words could be the difference between that person drinking themself into a fucking oblivion and blowing their brains out and sharing something that they may never share with anyone else and they see you as

an opportunity of, well, maybe we went in the same room. But perspective is about you're looking at it from your point of domination because we don't strong-want here, brother. There's a little tactical joke, but it's an else-shaped ambush, man. But it's my perspective in yours, and in our journeys in life, how we slept the night before, how exposed we are to what it is we're perceiving. A little compassion can go hell of a long way. It's crazy. I mean, that's truly what leadership is.

Is compassion for others and communication. Like good leadership. I think I've talked about a lot. I have. I'm like... Yeah. Do you have anything else you want to talk about? I think everybody's going to do another episode.

I think it's a good time to end it. Yeah. No, I really do think you thank you for letting me have this conversation with you and this forum to share it. I know that there's, it's helping me significantly and her and my family. The ones I care about most and then others. The people, just like I said the story about, I wasn't ready to receive things. Like, when, like, Kyle Lambs told me things where he's like,

I'm in, try your best five years, four years ago. He's a spiritual mentor, mine, and, like, a father figure. And he's like, try your best to love everyone. And I was like, Kyle, and he's like, try best to love everyone. And I was like, how? If I didn't, if I wasn't afraid of you, I'd tell you to, you're full of shit. And, uh, but it's like, it, it makes so much sense

what he was trying to say to me. I just wasn't ready to receive it. So now I am truly, almost to a fault. Like, trying to love everyone. That doesn't mean I like everyone, but at its core, and that's where it's where I'm like this little kid out there, like truly feeling, like, and seeing humanity,

and but with a body of experience and a wealth of knowledge of, like things that I can use for good that were on the surface awful environments or like environments that can define you and define you right into isolating yourself into nothing, like any alienation of your own, your own demise.

Yeah. But it's all about iron and sharpen's iron. And he said that to me too, and metaphorically, I was like, you need a harder metal to sharpen a sufferable one. So that's bullshit. But I get it now. Ha, ha, ha. This is the mind of the way I thought.

Yeah. And very, like, I think abstractly, and I communicate that way sometimes, but sometimes it's like, well, no, I know, it's not practical, and I guess, not pragmatic, but yeah. I think always trying to break down to the why, you know, that I talk about.

And a lot of it, some of us just blind faith. And to power grade it in yourself, because if you're the biggest thing in the world, it's a lonely island Well, thank you back in a hell of a comeback. I'm gonna come back, kid. Yeah, I don't know if I like to climb out or dig in the hole, man Or both No, I'm not day anymore. We seem to be going in a very positive direction now. It's It's coming out into light. Yeah.

Like truly, it is. It's like that pressure that monkey off my back of they need Kyle Morgan. Oh, then, I'm 965. They need me. Oh, it's not a fucking next man up. It's a machine. This country needs that. The world needs it. I don't.

That's a good place to stop it. Right here. I'm gonna scratch in it. It was a real honor, man. The world it was. I'm fucking rooting for you. I know everybody watching's rooting for you. And, uh, you know, best of luck with your training company, BlueBerrying Solutions. Get ready. Because a lot of fucking people are gonna want some training for me now. So me included. So if you ever want to course out here in Tennessee, let me know. I'll take it. Absolutely. I will.

No, I know. I know. You're serious, and I appreciate this opportunity. I do. Great. You're doing things that I really admire, and you're doing it in a way that's you're creating this space, which you inherently are saving lives.

And letting us, and you, be a part of that journey of sharing it. So keep doing it. I will. Thank you. Celebrate the Black Friday sales event at Woodhouse Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram in Blair. Step into a new Jeep that you can count on. From the awarded new Grand Cherokee to the capable 2022 Jeep Compass, the Jeep lineup won't compromise on power, technology or comfort, delivering confidence and convenience for 29 years. Woodhouse Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram in Blair is your trusted auto

partner. Visit us off highway 30 in Blair or online at woodhouse Chrysler Jeep Dodge.com. The Bullwork Podcast focuses on political analysis and reporting without partisan loyalties. A real sense of déjà vu sprinkled on our PTSD. So things are going well, I guess. Every Monday through Friday, Charlie Sykes speaks with guests about the latest stories from Inside Washington and around the world.

You document in a very compelling way. All of the positive things have come out of this, but it also feels like we have this massive hangover. No shouting or grandstanding. Principles over partisanship. The Bullwork Podcast, wherever you listen.