Shawn Ryan Show - #61 Tyler Grey - Delta Force Operator's Darkest Hour in War / Overcoming Self Doubt | Part 1

Episode Date: June 5, 2023

Episode #61 is a masterclass in self discovery and self worth. Tyler Grey is a former Army Ranger Sniper & Delta Force Operator turned Actor and Director. You might know him from the hit CBS series "SEAL Team." In part one of this two-part series, Grey recounts his childhood, where he found his love for the military and film. He unpacks his socially awkward history and how his childhood would impact his future endeavors. He tells us about his experience making the SEAL team show. Grey and Shawn also focus in on ideas of self worth and "nature vs. nurture." Grey also covers his early days in the ranger regiment plus a run in with the beginnings of Blackwater and its creator and former SRS Guest - Erik Prince. Grey vividly describes how a bad day in Baghdad gets worse and what it feels like to look your enemy in the eye. We are proud to share his story. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://moinkbox.com/srs https://mudwtr.com/shawn - USE CODE "SHAWNMUD" https://bubsnaturals.com - USE CODE "SHAWN" https://learshawn.com - Best Way to Invest in Gold: Lear Capital Call them today at 800-741-0551 or go to https://LearShawn.com Get your FREE Gold and Silver investor guides from Lear Capital Receive up to $15,000 in FREE bonus metals with a qualified purchase Information contained within Lear Capital’s website is for general educational purposes and is not investment, tax, or legal advice. Past performance may not be indicative of future results. Consult with your tax attorney or financial professional before making an investment decision. Tyler Grey Links: SEAL Team Series - https://www.cbs.com/shows/seal-team/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tyleragrey Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Delta Force operator coming on the show. It's gonna be a two-part series broken up into two weeks super heavy ironically this Delta guy produces and directs the show seal team which guy produces and directs the show seal team, which is pretty funny considering he's an Army guy producing a show about Navy Seals, but he does a phenomenal job at it. He's all over the film industry, also an actor. Guys, definitely a jack of all trades. This episode goes super deep. I think you all are going to get a lot out of it. We're recording history here.

We're bringing hope to people. We are showing how you can overcome all the life's challenges. This guy's no different. Such a positive message with this one. Patreon. This is because of you guys. Thank you. Once again, it's your support that makes this show happen happen and I mean that from the bottom on my heart. Thank you

I love you if you can't support us on Patreon please head over to Apple podcast or Spotify or both and Leave us a review. Tell us how we're doing. Tell us who you'd like to see coming up on the show? A lot of good stuff coming. Anyways, ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, please welcome my friend Tyler Gray, former Delta operator to the Sean Ryan Show. Enjoy it, love you all. See you next week. [♪ Music playing in background, music playing in background, Tyler, welcome to the Sean Ryan show, man.

Yeah, thanks, man. Great to finally be here. It's an honor. Oh, same. I have been wanting to interview you for the longest time and then somehow we got connected. Oh, yeah, we got connected through a comment. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

On Instagram. Yeah, I think on another podcast if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, yeah think on another podcast if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I'm You know, it's funny how Things start you know how you yeah, just Well, at least now, you know now. It's just the littlest thing and you see something like I know I know I know I know that is I know that part. You know, yeah, I'm so good to do that. Yeah, actually this is the, yeah, this is the first podcast I've ever traveled for.

So. Oh, cool. Yeah, it's, I mean, you know, it's, you know, being in LA, you know, I'm lucky that a lot of people come out there for other stuff and then set up and do multiple people. So I've been lucky that way, but definitely this is a lesson that I need to travel. Well, at least I can now, so that works out. But yeah, great to be here. Well, it's a pleasure having you.

Yeah, thank you. So we're going to go through childhood, then we'll get into your military career. Let me give you a brief introduction. So, Army Ranger, Delta Operator, Actor, Producer, Director, my first question, how the hell does a Delta guy get out and then produce the show's seal team? Sweet irony.

It's funny, you say that, because there's a show called Echo 3 on Apple that's got some Delta guys and it's advised by a seal. No shit. And then the movie Triple Frontier, which my buddies Kevin and Nate worked on, both seals or former seals,

it's about Delta Guys and they advise that. So it's, you know, it's, you know, it's the, you know, the executive producer, or, you know, it was a seal in Dev and he had a book and this show was kind of, I mean, not based on it, but derivative of that, you know, the teams or that team, I guess, specifically. or that team, I guess, specifically. And so I had been working in Hollywood for maybe seven years at that time, mostly on movies, I think I'd done a couple shows, but mostly movies,

which is sporadic, a movie, you know, like Suicide Squad, I got a call and they're like, hey, can you leave in four days for six months? And that's how they go. And then you're there for six months and then, you know, you won't do another movie for four months. So, so I was actually bodyguarding, but bodyguarding was my way to job.

You know, in the hall, yeah, I was bodyguard for, I think almost a decade, yeah, I did every type of EP work there is. I mean, corporate, you name it, for the music tours, everything. I don't think there's a category that I didn't check the block, whether intentionally or unintentionally, but I actually had a corporate gig that was a unicorn. But I had done movies and stuff like that. The other call, so two calls were one was to Marcus, who, you know, Capone, who I know as well, great guy. And he couldn't do it, I forget what he was doing, and then they called me.

And because the EP, you know, the seal, who was the EP, you know, he had worked on the, you know, done everything with the writer, but he couldn't do the onset stuff because of prior commitments. And he'd never done, obviously, he knew the authentic component of to make it real, obviously. But the way the film industry works, he had no experience in. So they called me and I actually quit that job. And it was a pilot. I mean, the odds of a pilot getting picked up to a show

are like one in one in a hundred. It's very rare. I just had a good feeling about it. So I quit that corporate e-p gig. And again, I think it was like a Wednesday and they wanted me to leave on Friday to go to New Orleans to shoot the pilot for six weeks. And so I quit and went out there. And you know, it's...

The thing I'll say about the show is... it's a unique combination. We, on that show, have been able to do what we've done just because of a unique combination of factors. You know, like are there a bunch of military people that you know know that your tactics gear? Oh of course. But we just got a group of people that cared to listen. It is the very short way to see it. Interesting. Yeah, because look, if I tell you, you've got those helmets, and again, I'm using gears, an example, you've got those, I'm going to say it this way, this will, this will, this will perfectly summarize what happened. So, and it's kind of a funny story.

So, again, making a pilot about dead group. So, I show up, I get there in New Orleans, I think we had a week and a half of prep before filming started. And filming, by the way, again, I don't know how much you know, so, excuse me if you already know this. Well, audience, someone will not know. I've never been on a Hollywood set.

Okay, well, if you want, come on out. Now that COVID's over. But so basically everything's shot out of order. It's all shot based on the logistics of the location. Story order means nothing. We have to go here, then we have to go here. So once you're there, you shoot all the scenes there. Once you go there, you shoot all the scenes there.

It's just nice to see you. Oh, wow. Yeah, which is for acting and everything's out of order. So it's definitely difficult. Like Lord of the Rings, shooting three movies out of order. I act on camera. I don't know how those guys did it. Like it boggles my mind. Like you're shooting week two, the characters knowing each other for five years. Like, wow. You know what I mean? Like, I don't

know how they track them. They're at, anyways. So I get there, we can have to filming. And I'm like, alright, you know, you know, let's, like what you got, you got all these departments. So I go to, I go look at the wardrobe and props. Props, I'm not joking. Has like black, black hawk vest from like 2008 Black Hawk Vests from like 2008. That like freaking, you know, Poe Dunk SWAT team wouldn't be caught dead in.

You know, I was just like, you know, like, okay, you know, what do you got for, that's like a wardrobe, you know, like the uniforms, they got two uniforms. They got the blueberries. Maybe uniform, it's time. Wow. And then they had the blueberries and the,

it's not A-Wart-2, but it's the green, guacamole, avocado, whatever they call it. But again, the dress version, you know? And I was just like, oh shit. All right. I got a producer or line producer and I'm like, ah, okay, so here's the deal. You have nothing.

Like, you have nothing. Like we're filming in a week and a half and you don't have anything. And he's like, what do you mean, you know, we have props. And again, it's not the props in the wardrobe. People wardrobe, people were great. You know, they do research. And unless you know, like, some airsoft forum,

you're not finding current freaking dev group issues stuff. Yeah. You know what I mean? They don't know, even with the internet, they don't know where to look. And you're not gonna find it in a Google search. So they look up in a beautiful, blueberries, simple,

looking for blueberries, you know, or the Camelpatter. So I was just like, oh man, yeah, you guys got nothing. All right, let me make some calls. And a guy that I know had been doing photo shoots for gear companies for quite some time, for like eight years. And I, with them, deal with as you go do the photo shoot

like that, you know, take some cool photos. You don't get paid, you know, but they let you keep the gear. Which, yeah, that's worth it for me if I can go right on how, you know, it was fun. So, I knew what he had. So, I called him up and I'm like, hey, dude, I think I'm, again, how many people would do whatever about say? So, I called him up and I'm like, hey, man, I'm working on this project. I need you, he was in LA, I need you to fly to New York tomorrow.

Box up all your stuff and overnight it to New Orleans. He's like, okay, are they gonna run it from me? No. Exactly. Okay. All right, I'll hook you up. Oh, are they gonna pay for my flight? I'm like, okay, all right, I'll hook you up. Oh, are they gonna pay for my flight? I'm like, no.

Ah! Ah! Then he's like, okay, and I just told him, like, dude, they don't know what they don't know. Like, they don't know that they have nothing. I know it, you know it, because I explained it to him, but I'm like, they, to them, we need military stuff.

They got military stuff. They got uniforms and they got, tactical vest. They're good to them. To us, we'd watch it and go, you know, we'd laugh. And that is, by the way, why stuff is wrong all the time?

Damn. Cause it's that simple. We got military guys. Do we have military gear? Yep, we're good. They don't know what they don't know. Gotcha. And that's the fundamental thing.

And so anyways, he shipped the gear. It came in. I mean, he had every cry uniform and every freaking size. Every cry vest, too, to have a ton of A or one stuff. Like, oh, that was the other thing too, but before I called him, they're like, okay, well, you know, you know, we'll just,

well, you tell us what to buy and we'll buy it. I go, you can't. I'm like, A, you know, the lead time on any of this stuff would be a couple of months, and B, they wanted A or one specifically at the time, and I'm like, literally, you can't buy it. So anyways, he got all that stuff, and we used his gear for the entire first season. Wow. Yeah. And, and by the way, sorry, kind of the to sum up that story, when I was like, no, they're not even going to pay for your flight. I was like, just, just I will figure out how to pay you back. I don't know how yet, but just trust me. How many people would fly, buy a ticket, fly to New York?

Like how many people would do that? Probably not very many. Not very many. And what's funny about it is then three weeks later, planning the stunt to fast-drope, you know, we fast-drope on the pilot. And they wanted someone to fast-drope a dog, a Malinois. And that some swat guy there was like,

oh yeah, I can do it. So I was like, well, how many times do you fast-rope? Oh, no, he's done the tower, what, what, sorry, what? Oh yeah, he said he's done the course in fast-rope or tower. I'm like, so fast-rope is something, a helicopter, you know, like, it's a, you know, no one deploys from a tower.

But, you know, I mean, I was just like, I do not care how many times he's done it out of a tower. Has he done it from a helicopter? Yeah. You know, and again, could you go from a tower to a helicopter? Yeah, I mean, we did at some point, but not with a dog. Not with a live dog. Yeah.

You know, I'm like, hell no. If he has a fast-rope live, he's not going to fast-rope on camera with a dog for not with a live dog. Yeah. You know, I'm like, hell no. If he hasn't fast-stroke live, I mean, he's not gonna fast-stroke on camera with the dog for the first time. There's no way. Anyways, so that guy, Justin, had fast-roped and had a malinois. And because I did all the photoshoots

with him, I knew he could move tactically and everything. So I was like, I got a guy for you. And he is still on the show to this day. No shit. Yep, yep. Justin Melnik, it's his data, well, service is his dog, Dita. Yeah, so kind of a funny, you know,

just how things work out. But that's how, again, we just, that kind of mechanism, we've always, we've got the best armor in the business, like our props guys listen, like, they work with us, like, because the thing is, if you go in and you go, hey, you should have this over this, which one's less? That's what?

Yeah. There's conversations over because they're not gonna spend more money for authenticity. So it's about how do you keep the budget the same and get the right or as close as you can get. So anyways, yeah, we've been really lucky to be able to, you know, do so many. I mean, is it a dramatic TV show? It's like I tell everyone. People are always like, oh, is it real? I'm like, we would literally be dead every episode a hundred times.

And our characters would probably be getting a Medal of Honor every other episode, if not every episode. You know, I'm like, no, it's not realistic at all. But in tone, is it authentic? Does it feel authentic? You know, and I think we definitely try hard to do that. And I think that's why the show is resonated with, I mean, it's one thing to resonate

with civilians, but when the military, and I'm not going to say like, when the military doesn't hate a military show or movie, that's fucking home run. And I told him that too, like for a season, I'm like, if anyone in the military watches it and doesn't hate it, home run, they're like, well, what if they like it? Am I gonna, they're not gonna like it? But if they don't hate it, I'm like, it's great.

Yeah, or you know, it's, if there's not stuff that where you're just watching it and getting so distracted by some dumb bullshit that somebody, you know somebody messed up and whatever. If you get the details right, people will focus on the story. If you get all the details are wrong, it'll just stop, you'll just tune out.

Yeah, so yeah, it's been great. That's awesome, man. Well, let's get into some more about you less about sure less about seal team. Yeah, absolutely Everybody starts out with a gift. Oh, I did not know that Everybody starts out with a gift any guesses The only thing I can think of right now is it's a jack in a box and it's gonna be a box in glove and punch me in the face.

Which if you didn't do, you should definitely do it at some point. Noted, noted. Oh! Those are gubbi bears. Those are vigilance league gubbi bears. They're actually legal in all 50 states so you can fly back home with them. Are they actual gubbi bears? Yeah, they're actual gubbi bears. there are actually legal in all 50 states so you can fly back home with them. Are they actual gummy bears?

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There you go. You'll be the, the sill where we want that. Oh! Well, let's talk about childhood. I listened to a couple of your podcasts. You didn't really go too into detail that I heard about childhood, but I can tell it was definitely a rough upbringing. It sounds like. So... Where'd you grow up?

Baker's still in California. Okay. Yeah. Which I remember getting off the plane in Iraq and being like, hmm, looks like Baker's Fold. Same heat, you know, well, it's hotter there. But, you know, here's the thing is, is, and we were talking about this earlier, not, not related to childhood, but you, you know, you say, or you said, you know, rough childhood, I would not say that at all because I know plenty of people who's freaking, you know,

were beat every day, you know, physically by their, or one or both parents, you know, I did not have that upbringing. I know a guy who literally grew up in a motel and his mom was a from a substitute, you know, I did not have that upbringing. I didn't have a rough childhood. I'll explain. That being said, there's a saying, and I think this is very apt, which is no one gets out of childhood unscathed. Everyone carries some form of trauma from childhood. Talk to a person that had the leave it to bever childhood. And there's something in that that messed them up. Or, you know, that caused them trauma. And on that note, too, it's actually went to this grief recovery institute. It's a great, great course, but their big thing is

everyone grieves at the same level. And I'm not talking about grieving childhood, but in that, if you, if you, you know, shit from being overseas, like you lost buddies of our, you know, whatever it is, and you're grieving that. And then you get to this thing, and the woman next to you freaking had her kid die. You're like, oh, dude, I don't, I don't compare that, you know what I mean? And their whole thing is, no, no, no, everyone grieves at the same level.

Like there's no, like, oh, your grief is worse than mine, because everything is relative to you. Yeah. A level 10, you know, if the worst thing it's ever happened to me in my whole life, is that, you know, somebody said I was stupid once, that's the worst thing that this ever happened to me. That's my level 10.

It's not a universal level 10, but that's mine. And I've learned that over time with anything, but especially childhood. You know, so we all take certain traumas from that time period. And they're, I're, I mean, I was just giving you, talking to you earlier about not comparing things and hearing I'm comparing things.

But, you know, my childhood, I'll give you the, I'll say it this way. What were you into as a kid? What did you like to do? My favorite thing in the entire world. Play guns. Playing guns?

I'll show you a picture. You've seen the picture of me on the cover? Actually, I'll show you a couple childhood photos that you'll laugh at. I don't even know if you ever weave things in, but I'll always remember that. I mean, I was, look, I've been asked this before about why did you join the military and actually, sorry, I mean, I was, I look, I've been asked this before about, you know, why did you join the military and

Actually, sorry, I'm gonna replace it. We're not there. Yeah. What's new? Well, no, you'll you'll see like people will say Why did you choose to join the military and my response is I? I don't think I chose it When I was a kid like like it was so in eight as a kid, like it was never a choice for me. It was just, that's who I was. You know, like, dude, I had worked full camouflage to school.

Not like hunting camouflage, not woodland, you know, and dude, I would like as much as I could, you get my fake guns and go you know go play war go play guns Whatever deaths. I would try and do that every single day As my favorite thing in the absolute world And again, I mean that's I can't remember a time I can't remember anything before that. I mean, it's as far back as it goes. Ironically, my second favorite thing was watching movies. And, I mean, did I watch Star Wars?

I literally broke the tape because we recorded it off TV. And I watched, I think it was a hundred and twenty, something like that. And it broke. I guess I just re-recorded it. But yeah, I would just do that. I was a movie fanatic. And well, that's actually, that was a movie fanatic and Well, that's actually there's a reason for that so

I was a very This is a very strange kid I Was a very sensitive kid Actually sensitive might be the wrong word I was a very sensitive kid. I actually sensitive might be the wrong word. I was hyper aware. I was hyper aware in ways I shouldn't have been. And I was completely unaware in ways all the other kids were.

Let's go and do an example. I mean, just I remember this so clearly ways all the other kids were. Let's go and do an example. I mean, just, I remember this so clearly. I don't know how old I was. Well, I was, I know actually I was under 10 just because of the house that we ran at the time. But all the kids, you know, it was like night time and, you know, it's like, I don't know, six neighborhood kids.

And, you know, like they had all this toilet paper and, you know, we were planning, or they were planning, like, you know, let's go toilet paper, Old Man Johnson, I'm a person's name. Old Man Johnson's house, you know, tonight, that was like the plan. And then, you know, in the morning, the sprinklers will come on and they'll, you know,

get into the, you know, and I just remember saying like, I don't, I don't want to do that. Like, he'll have to clean it up. Like, that's sad. Like, I don't want him to have to clean up. You know, like to me, I was just like, why would we like, I mean, he's not, he's not mean to us or, you know, there's like no justification for it. I was just kind of like, not that I thought we needed one or one or one. But I just was like, no, I don't, I don't want to do that. Like, it just, it'd be sad. The thought of him having to know that shit up in the morning. And they were just like, like, like, what?

You know, like, why are you, like, they didn't understand why I was thinking about that and I didn't go and things happen like that a lot where I was like, you know, uncool. You know, like, like, as a kid, I had a lot of adult thoughts. Like, I had a lot of adult kind of perspectives. Where do you think that stem from?

That's, um, that's a good question. You've probably heard me talk about my psychedelic journey last year and all the benefits that came from doing it. One being that I haven't drank in almost a year. I've not had any caffeine in almost a year, my anxiety has gone, my anger has gone. A whole list of benefits came from that, and it led me down this journey of researching benefits of mushrooms and fungi in general. In my research, I found this company called Mudwater. Mudwater is a coffee alternative with four

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mudwater believes the country's on mental health epidemic and so do I. Go to mudwater.com slash Sean to support the show and use the code Sean mud for 15% off. That's mudwater.com slash Sean use The average on farm income in the United States was a loss of $1100.60% of US port comes from one company, holy owned by the Chinese. And farmers are more likely to commit suicide than veterans. Folks, we got a problem. I'm Lucinda, a generation farmer and founder of Moink. Mooplazoic! We offer grass-fed and grass-finished beef and lamb, pastured pork and chicken, and wild-cot, a lascan salmon, shipped straight from the heart of rural America. Come stand shoulder to shoulder with us

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Go to MonkBox.com slash yum. MonkBox.com slash yum minkbox.com slash yum. I guarantee you're fixing to say, oink oink, I'm just so happy I got mink. I don't know. I think I'm good. Well, what were kids aware of that you weren't aware of? Um, I mean, socializing.

Like, I was terrified of girls. Like, I, I mean, socializing. Like, I was terrified of girls. Like, I mean, I had no... No competence. They were like aliens. Like, I grew up with a brother, no sister. You know, I never, you know, I just like, I just didn't, I didn't get it. Like, at all, you know.

First... Were you attracted to women? Oh yeah, I mean, dude, like, when I was a kid, like, my type, I knew from a very early age, was, you know, Wonder Woman. I was like, but, yeah, I was like, yeah. That was Baywatch before Baywatch, you know, saying the opening of Wonder Woman. But, but I just was like, I just didn't,

kind of think my first, I don't think I actually like initiated something with a girl until I was probably in high school thinking about it. Like the first girlfriend I ever had was in the fourth grade, and she asked me out literally with a letter that said, like, do you like me, check, yes or no? Like it was that second, like, you know,

I'm saying girlfriend, but they're like elementary school, you know, relationships. But, and the second girl, like, I can grab my hand during a, a, a, a, Belinda car while heaven on earth, the couple skate, she grabbed my hand and pulled me onto this game. I mean, they, they both initiated something, you know, I, I didn't. And it made me two things. A, I just had no awareness of like, I just had very low social awareness. I didn't know how to talk to girls. I just, and I'm going to use the word game, which but I just didn't understand the social aspect of,

I mean, I had no problem making friends, but far as like kind of socializing with the opposite sex, no concept. Completely foreign. What's that? Completely foreign to you. Yes, absolutely. And on top of that, you know, I really didn't in hindsight now. Obviously,

I didn't know this then. But the other thing was, I mean, dude, I was, I was tall, I mean, I was lanky because it's a kid, but I was tall. I mean, I wasn't a bad looking kid at all. I was probably a good looking kid, but in my head, you know, I was shit. And so if you're shit, what are you gonna offer a girl? Why do you think that you thought you look like shit? I wasn't that I thought I looked like shit. I thought I was shit.

So what happened? I thought you had shit literally. Well, not literally, but figured out shit. Yeah. No, so what happened to me was when I was three, so my dad was an alcoholic, still is to this day, how I honestly don't know, like I don't know how he's still alive.

I actually, I know how he's still in alcoholic. I don't know how he's still alive. I mean, I've led a risky life and he's been worse than I am because I'm only half him, somehow he's still alive. Alcohol is whole life. And so, you know, like I spent no time with my father. None. He would go to work, go to the bar, come home, pass out.

I never, I mean, I was, I can remember, like, a count, probably on one hand, the times of like bonding time, you know, with him. He was a mechanic, heavy equipment mechanic worked on, like, caterpillar and jaundyr, things like that. And so my brother was born when I was three. And I mean, this is 80, 80. Yeah, born in 80. I mean, he had, you know, as severe of 80, D-80, HD, freaking, you know, you name it. Like, he was allergic to everything.

I mean, I love my brother, but growing up with him was a nightmare. Like he would just wake up and scream, nonstop for 30 minutes. And I'm not talking about when he was a baby. I'm talking when I was like 10. I'm 10. So anyways, the short version on that is that,

you know, my dad was in alcohol like so my parents constantly fought, again, not a unique story. Once my brother was born, they, you know, you talk about an alcoholic and a codependent, they're gonna fight just in general, now take a child that is just in ways impossible to raise. I mean, my brothers start literally stop going to school in junior high school. Like, they couldn't get him to go to school. It's like, it was just one thing,

special schools, you name it. You know, he had everything. one thing, special school, you name it. He had everything. And I, and I'm gonna say this, and I'm gonna sound like an asshole, but it's what my mom always tells me, so I'll repeat it, but you know, she was like, you were like the perfect kid in that. I mean, I never caused any problems ever. I just again I was a

sensitive kid I was a nice kid like I never got into trouble I I just didn't do anything wrong and I was easy you know I would I spent a lot of time by myself which is a very important piece because my parents all fought all the time. As soon as they started fighting, I'd leave the house and go and I had imaginary friends and, you know, we knew it. We knew it imaginary friends. Yeah, two, Gage and Desoto. Yeah. Which are actually both from the,

both those names are from the show emergency. But yeah, Gage and Desoto and D'Sota were my homies and yeah we'd go and hang chill. What would you guys do? Playing guns was hard with them because they were really good. I should have made that more obvious, sorry. Um. I actually, it's funny, because I've learned this with my girlfriend. English is her second language and I'll give sarcasm, but I'll give it so dry that she doesn't register as sarcasm. And sometimes it could be, like my sarcasm is sarcasm, but it's actually really offensive,

but then I go so dry with it. She just gets like, like said something really offensive, so. How many of that too? Oh dude, I'm working on that, man. That's hard. But I think it's funnier the more dry it is. So anyways, and now we, you know, I would,

I would go imagine stories. I would imagine adventures. So we'd go on adventures and I would just make shit up. How old are you at this point? Oh, okay. I did that from probably in a four, four or five till four, four or five till... Definitely till we move, so four or five till about 11. And I'll kind of mention that along with something else. Like I said, I was... I was... uncool in the sense that all the bad boys stuff,

I just had no interest in, you know? And it wasn't interesting to me. So I was put in the uncool category and that was a big issue for me, which was like the kids, I just so happened to the coldest sack I lived on had like two of the coolest kids in school happened to live like three doors down

and across the street, just by chance. So we were like friends, cause we were together all the time, but also not, because I would, you know, they'd go do stuff all the time. Like, if I hung out with either one of them, everything was cool, we had fun, blah, blah, blah. But if it was both of them and me,

it was shit on me time, you know, that's just how it was. And I get it, you know. And then a lot of times, you know,, they go do stuff and wouldn't take me. And I just remember feeling a word's not abandoned, but lonely, feeling lonely. And then I'm sure one of those instances is where I made up the friends from. But I'm picturing you at a very specific lunch table. is where I made up the friends from. But.

I'm picturing you at a very specific lunch table. Trying to think of the cuffed guy. I mean, thought of that cuffed tree in a long time. I don't even remember where it all ate, actually. There's all the clicks, and then there's the one lunch table where nobody really fits them with anybody. Yeah.

And that was you. I can tell you that was, I don't super remember elementary school, but 100% that was being high school. Like, I mean, I was, at one point I hung out with every group you can hang out with in high school. Mm, I think I hung out with the golf kids,

but, you know, I was athletic, so I played football and soccer. Like every group at one point, I hung out with, but I never really, I was never that definitive, like, you never made the connection. Yeah, because I was like, I was, you know, kind of interested in some of the things, but that wasn't like 100% me. So, like, I would just jump groups. I never had like a click that I really felt that I fit in. But the other thing going back to your original question, where do I think that came from?

I do know this. So, when my parents would fight, you know, Dad, mom, I would, and I remember doing this again, I mean, no older than starting at five, I would get in the middle of them, and I would listen to them. And then I would listen to what I'd had, so this is what my mom said. And then I would try and logically explain. No, no, no, dad.

What mom is really saying is, so I was like getting in the middle, trying to translate like a therapist. Well, you were doing that at five years old. Really, really young. Yeah. And I did it. I should, I mean, probably until, in high school, probably, I stopped caring because I could leave the house.

But definitely, for at least eight years, something like that. But what I got from that is it, it, you know, gave me the ability to, I had to listen to what they were, sorry, I had to hear what they were saying, but I had to listen for what they were really saying. And I say this all the time, like, you may know something, but if you can't explain it, you don't really know it. And so I had to really kind of pick the logic pieces out to then explain it to the other parent. And that was, you know, I mean, I think everything is to a degree in nature and nurture. I don't think anything is, you know, one or the other definitively. But I, that was definitely a skill I picked up is kind of understand, you know, being able to interpret

just how to explain the logic of something and not kind of get tied down in the, you know, abstract non-linear details, you know, like when you tell a story there are important points and the other things are just kind of filler,. There's beats that you have to hit to really tell the story or to convey a message. And I definitely learned that from that. You know, you, I mean, we're skipping way forward and I would like to at this point, but growing up like that, you felt a sense of abandonment. You didn't really fit in with anybody. Do you think that,

and you wound up being this ultra successful, you know, maybe you don't consider yourself that, I don't know, but from the outside looking at, you know, came an army ranger, you went to Delta, you became an actor, came a producer, became a director, pretty substantial businessman. What do you think that those insecurities as a child is what drove you to become that successful in life? It's a funny, I...

because you couldn't find acceptance as a kid. I mean, it's a funny, I, because you couldn't find acceptance as a kid. And so, you know, I mean, it drives, it drives a lot of people. The short answer to your question is, I think, to a degree, yes. To a large degree, yes. And, you know, I say that because you know my thing has always been like You know and I said it then like

You know doubt me like If I want to accomplish something like if somebody doubts that I'll do something, that's what I'm going to put all my energy to, and I'm going to do it. And that applies to myself, too. I am by far my own worst, I wouldn't even say critic, I'd say I'm worst enemy to a degree. I mean, but I'll give you an example.

I worked with an absolute freaking movie star. I won't say who it is, but I'll movie star like a list movie star. World on a string. And that person absolutely struggles with massive insecurity. massive insecurity. By all external things, it's ludicrous, like, it doesn't make any sense, but it makes absolute sense because that was established in childhood. I have a saying that, and I learned this recently, but it's like there was things that affected me in childhood that I, you know, later in life, it's like that I, that like, okay, someone made me feel that way, so I felt that way. And now I know that's not true about me. I know it's not true.

And I've known for a long time, it's not true. And I've known for a long time it's not true. But then when I really looked at it, I realized that, okay, I knew it. But I was still doing actions as if I didn't know it. And what it was, what I figured out was consciously I knew it. but subconsciously I'd still not accepted it. There's a huge difference between knowing and accepting something. And I can honestly say today, there's still a bunch of things I know, but I'm working on accepting, because it's hard. Do you have an example of one? Uh, I mean... Uh, being worth something.

I mean, I know I'm worth something. Do you have an accept of that? I'm trying. Like, it's just... You're-you're undoing... You know, decades of subconscious programming. How long have you known that your word something? Ooh, that's a good question. I'd say probably recently.

That's a recent discovery. Two years. Jesus, looks tough. Well, I mean, to be fair, consciously, I didn't know that subconsciously, I didn't think I was worth anything. You know, I had to look at my behaviors and then realize, like self-sabotage,

I mean, I knew I was like fucking Olympic gold medal sabotage, self-sabotur, like I can no one can hold a candle all fucking You want a self-sabotage watch this you poor grenade. I'm gonna pull a fucking nuke And I've self-sabotaged a lot of shit but again To you really dive in I didn't really know why I was doing that. And the why is because if good things are happening to me, if I get in a good relationship, but I subconsciously, fundamentally think that I'm worthless, then I have to sabotage it.

Because I don't deserve it. Damn. That's some heavy shit. And I mean, over and over and over and over and over and the weird thing is what's strange to me. I was just having this conversation with someone else. I can't remember who, but Oh, actually I do remember who. But it's crazy to me that at the same time of having this fundamental lack of self-worth, it's pushed me to do things because, so here's a good example. If you have no self-worth, fundamentally as a person, how do you get worth?

If you have none in your head, like, you know, in a room by yourself. If you have no self worth, how do you get self worth? Well, oh, sorry, good. Go ahead, I mean, simple. I mean, there's many ways. Get money. Now everyone sees the money and they go, oh, that worth translates to you.

Get fame. And I go, oh, that worth translates to you. Get fame. That's external, you know, worthiness, you know, that you're building up external value to where people can look at the things that you have and go, oh, they must be awesome. A girlfriend. I mean, I will fully admit, fully admit that I would choose relationships

that were not good for me because the girl was super attractive and now knowing what I know, that attractiveness was a trophy to give me self-worth and other people's eyes. What led you to find this discovery? I mean, how did you, uh, that one specifically? Yeah.

A lot of failed relationships. Well, not that would specifically and what gave you the epiphany that you know that you're worth something now. Uh, I think a lot of people struggle with this myself included. And none of the other shit that you're talking about, the money, the fame, the trophies, the cars, the house, all that, none of that shit fucking works. That's why when you're talking

about a list actors and actresses, it doesn't matter what the fuck you have. If you don't internally know that you're worth something, then you always have that fucking feeling of worthlessness. Absolutely. And there's an example, because everyone knows this person. There's an example, the opposite of what you just said, which is that person, everyone's met in their life, who is level 10 confident, for no fucking reason at all. Ah!

Ah! That's, everyone knows that person. And you're like, but, what, you have to job, you know, you're like thinking of like, what's it based on? You have nothing yet, their confidence is sky high. I can talk anyone into anything and everyone knows through in their lifetime at some point that person that you're just like,

what's your confidence based on, you know? And now I know self worth is it. For me, it, I mean, quite honestly, the, the, and again, I mean, not to, but the first thing was I had to obviously realize that I didn't have self worth. Yeah, I, you can't fix a problem. But the first thing was I had to obviously realize that I didn't have self-worth. You can't fix a problem, obviously, that you don't know is there.

And it took a long time before I realized what the actual problem is. And I would personally, I feel like, especially with veterans, especially, I think so many of the things that are talked about and all these things, PTSD, all this stuff, personally, my feeling, I feel like a lot of its symptoms. And I think the diseases were almost all formed at childhood. Like self-confidence, I think self-confidence or self-worth is a massive issue. And again, make statement for most veterans that I've come into contact with.

But it's not, you know, you don't go to a site and they go, so let's talk about yourself worth it. You know, it's, you know, what happened in combat that made you sad. You know, they start talking about fucking stupid shit that, I mean, it's not stupid, but you know what I mean? It's, you're, it's not the root. It's not the root. It's not the root, you know? It's not the root. And the root is, you know, I didn't go to college. Like, I have no formal education.

I don't know how I graduated high school, to be honest with you. I hate school. I just, I can't do it. But I can see what's self-evident. And again, going back to the appearance, so I'm like, all right, all right, you know, two plus two plus two equals, you know, it's, you meet enough people that have the same problem and you start to put together patterns. But once I figured out that self-worth was a major issue for me, then I was like, all right,

well, how do I go about fixing it? And the short answer is it's really just about, and again, it's a very, I mean, there's probably a thousand books made on the subject, but it's really just about reprogramming your subconscious. And the reason I say that is because how did you, how did it get programmed in the first place? You know, probably by words or actions, but, you know what I mean? It's not like, wasn't more than by words or actions, but you know what I mean? It's not like, wasn't more than just words or actions.

So I think because of that, it's relatively logical to say that it can be reprogrammed from words and actions. So is that what you did? You reprogrammed or was there something that? No, I'm still reprogramming. And actually that's a critical point. At what years does that develop? I don't know.

How long does this develop over? I don't know. But I can tell you that at this point knowing what I know, I don't think, I don't think something like that is a, I don't think it's a, a fix. I think it's maintenance. How many people depend on you? Do you have any idea?

I don't think anyone really. Nobody? Like, you're the fucking producer of SEAL team or director of SEAL team. Well, that's work, I mean. That's your life. Yeah. I want people to depend on you. I mean, sometimes, yeah. Your business partner. Does he depend on you? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. me. My employees, I built a business, my employees depend on me. People that watch this show, they get, they get help, like this segment right here is gonna help a lot of people depend on this. And once I realized holy shit, people actually fucking depend on me for their liveliness, you know. Then I started to realize, maybe I am worth something. If people depend on me for the livelihood,

then you're fucking worth something. No, I mean, I've never thought of it that way. It makes total sense. And yeah, I haven't thought of it that way, but like I said, the thoughts and actions is the reprogramming, you know, so I always think I love this movie and I always think of it. It's, you know, it's a good little hunting. He's like, you know, it's not your fault. Shut up. You know, it's not your fault. It stumbles, shit, man. You know, and he keeps going, he keeps going, it's not your fault. It's not bullshit, man. You know, and he keeps going, he keeps going.

It's not your fault. Don't be fucking with me, man. You know, like it's finally break some such a good scene because that's all it is. He says the same fucking words over and over and over again. And they fucking mean nothing until they start to mean something. And all the difference in that

is knocking down the walls in his own head of his own worth. It's all that seems about. I think a lot of guys in the military also, I do believe you're correct that a lot of it does come from childhood, but I think that's self-worth. Again, going back to dependency,

you don't, when you're in the military, especially when you're operating at that high of a level, you know, like you were. You never see the people that are depending on you. Ever. You see your team, they depend on you, but that's all replaceable. Yeah, and it's so easy to see as something else in a military context, you know. But then you get out or you keep doing that job for these people that depend on you doing that job, which is 350 million Americans, you know, plus all the other people in the world

you're up, you know, that we fight for. And you never see that. You never see all the people that depend on you. And then when you leave, you never get that appreciation for doing what you did or it doesn't measure up. And I, do you see where I'm going with this? Yeah, what, you know, I mean. You come home to a fucking broken VA, nobody gives a shit.

You know, yeah, they can say thank you for your service. Yeah, whatever. You know what I mean, it's great. A lot of people do care, but you don't get the sense of appreciation. And all you see is all the negative shit, like the VA, like the fucking phony ass nonprofits that are out there saying that they support veterans

and then they don't support shit. Maybe they send a veteran to go do fucking hunt once a year and then, you know, but anyways, I don't wanna get into that and I guess what I'm getting at is you don't, a lot of veterans don't see how many people depended on what they were doing, you know, and it's a whole country that's dependent on it. I mean, just thinking about what you're saying. I mean, I know for myself, even if somebody

said something, you know, thank you for your service or, you know, when my arm was fresh, I mean, dude, it was, I mean, it was obvious, you know, and a lot of people don't notice now, but first a couple of years, you know, I'd guess about it, galley. And I'd lie, you know, I'd say, well, I, which is not a lie, you know, I'd say, I was a workplace accident. So not details, but unless I was just in a certain mood then we're at a strip club, then I would say it was a shark bite, surfing off the gold coast of Australia.

And it works. But people would, or thank you for your service, or any kind of those things. And my reaction is always, I felt, it made me feel very uncomfortable. Because of those self-worth, you know, issues. And, you know, to me, it was, I did it for selfish reasons of what I wanted. And so, I never really put it into the context of, you know, people depending on you. It just always made me feel, I guess, bad, quite frankly, it's the word I'm looking for, but, yeah, no, it's interesting to spin it that way. And then with the, you know, the military overall, like, I mean, again, I I'm gonna say what things that I feel or things that they are for me, whether that applies to anyone in the audience, you know, that fits great, if not great.

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best bacon you will ever taste, but it's only for a limited time. It's spelled m-o-i-n-k-box.com. Slash S-R-S. That's mointbox.com. Slash S-R-S. You know, like I can honestly say, honestly, and I'll not go into super detail on the story. Oh, if I get, I'll tell the story. So there was, I don't know what it was, I, Baghdad? Yeah, Baghdad, I think.

Anyways, a bunch of dudes got shot, like, I don't know, like 13 or 14 dudes, and at the time I was, I had the camera, so I'd go around and take the photos of them. And, I mean, and by the way, just to note it, I mean, these guys were real pieces of shit, all of them suicide bombers, all everyone about to blow themselves up the next within the next week. But anyways, so one guy was in the kitchen and he had dragged himself from the living room and I don't know how many times he was shot but I saw him and I you know he was making the you know obviously fluid blood in his chest definitely chest wounds and just based on the noises he was making I was like you know I was gonna die like pretty quickly.

And so I went down to take his picture, I took his picture and I was pretty close, you know, he was laying on the ground. And then I just just was like, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna watch him. It's gonna watch him. Ah, it was probably a foot from his face. And then he died. And there was nothing. No motion? Nothing. Still to this day. I, I, I've never felt bad about it.

I like, I didn't care then. And I was kind of like, were you expecting to feel something? To be perfectly honest with you, I was hoping that I would feel something. Is that why you want, did it? Is that why you watched him? I didn't know that at the time.

In hindsight, I think, yes. Didn't know that at the time. In hindsight, I think yes. I didn't know that at the time. There was just, there was just, there's just nothing. And what I've learned, or as I tell that story, is because I learned something about myself. And that was, like I said, I was a sensitive kid. Like, I mean, I was nice. I was too nice, quite, quite frankly. An example would be picking up on girls. Nice doesn't work. And a new says it does is a fucking liar.

Nice doesn't work. Like, be nice to girls and they'll like you. No, they won't. All my shithead, you know, friends, you know, we're freaking, you know, had girlfriends everywhere. And like I treated a girl when she's like, he's a great friend. I friend-zone the shit out of myself. Again, I was a friend-zone, Olympic gold medalist. But, um, but, you know, I was that kid. I was just a nice, sensitive kid. And at a certain point, though, I developed this,

you know, they, it's a statistic that special operations have like, you know, all the characteristics of like, criminals, sociopaths, except for a couple. Well, this is definitely a sociopathic trait, except for a couple. Well, this is definitely a sociopathic trait, which is once I put you in the, you're a fundamental piece of shit category, once you're there. I literally, if I can burn your house down, I don't care. Yeah, it just, I don't care. But I realized later that there is a unique circumstance,

I'll call it, which I didn't put together until years later. And that is, as a kid, my childhood, I wasn't super mistreated. I was just left on my own, I raised myself, you know, as my mom says it now and she calls me, you know, message me all the time, I'm so sorry, my mom, I'm over it, you know, it's like cool. But because I was the easy kid to deal with,

she just, well that one's good. And so I just didn't really, I think the only thing I learned from my dad was to not be a mechanic or alcoholic. That's about it. And, sorry, it's just kind of, I wasn't encouraged or discouraged.

I was just on my own. And so when I joined, like when I was a kid, before I joined the military, I used to have dreams. And again, I'm assuming this is not normal. But I'd have dreams as a kid of like being somewhere and saving people and dying. I'd have that dream all the time. And I used to wear a dream because it was a dream. Wasn't a nightmare. I wanted that.

You know, later in life, I was like, fuck, I was fucked up. Now I look at it. again my kind of concept was, you know, now again I, I could watch, you know, certain things happen, you know, I mean, there's a lot of bad stuff that happens through the Pride blocks from here, you know. But the one thing that I will go, I do not tolerate at all and will drive me crazy is stuff with kids. Yeah. You fuck with kids, like, fucking burn your house down. And why? You know, I think I joined them, you know, fucked up sense.

I think I joined to try and save versions of myself. Really? I mean, in my head, I think that's, because I always saw it as like, and, grand, I don't know, as a kid, I love like nights, I play Dungeons & Dragons, not shockingly. And I just saw it as like, you know, I wanted to be at night, you know, which had a coat of honor, but who also fought to protect those who couldn't fight for themselves. I mean, I really, I really believed in that. And that. And now knowing what I know,

you know, those suicide bombers, especially at the time, and back then, did I blow it up a shitload of Iraqi kids? I didn't get a fuck. You want to blow up your own care? I don't care. You know, American, Iraqi, kids are kids. Like, you're going to go blow up kids? Like, I'm not even going to blink an eye when you die. I'll give a single, not even a hint of, oh, in a universal sense of human beings, that's sat, no, don't care. Yeah. And the way I also saw it is, and again, hey, is this justification?

I'm sure it is. No, actually, I don't think it is. I think that I don't think sociopaths need justification. And I'm not a sociopath, which is actually another funny story because I was talking to my therapist one day. And I was like, I was watching a lot of murder porn, which if you never seen the murder porn episode of South Park, that's going to sound really weird. But watch the murder porn episode of South Park and it'll be less weird.

But basically murder porn, they make a joke about all the, you know, serial killer documentaries and every murder porn. Because people like watching it so much, you know, like me. And I had just watched probably too many, you know, and I like, was I didn't find certain traits. I called my therapist, like, like, I think I'm a sociopath. She goes, Tyler, the fact that you're worried that your sociopath means you're not a sociopath.

And I was like, that's fair. I'm like, okay, good, my. Okay. Good. You got me. All right. Sorry. Got you later. But it's, uh, it's one of those things where, you know, I, I definitely just think, uh, the way I saw it is.

I don't care why you're doing that. Like, if you want to blow up kids, I don't care why you're doing that. Like if you wanna blow up kids, I don't care what your cause is, it doesn't matter. I don't care if right, wrong, no, that shit matters to me. The fact is, the way I view you is your malfunctioning robot and you just need to go away. is you are malfunctioning robot and you just need to go away.

You're not fixable and some people are just malfunctioning robots. And but yeah, I definitely think as a kid, I just developed the feeling of like, still this day, like, dude, if I see a kid even, alone, fucks me up, like, I don't make me really sad. To the point, sadly, quite honestly, I kind of have to avoid certain things because it's everywhere, and I'll just get trapped in that negative mindset.

Yeah. But like, dude, I was alone all the time. Now, what did I get out of it? Definitely a prolific imagination. I mean, I have a great imagination, which I didn't know that I didn't know my imagination was unique until, again, maybe three years ago, like, you know, creating story, just making shit, you know, like, I didn't know that not everyone can do that at, you know, the same, like on the spot.

A lot of self-discovery two or three years ago, huh? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I, you know well I'll say this you are never in my opinion going to therapy once a week is like paying the minimum under credit cards you're never gonna get out of debt because you're just paying the interest if you talk to a therapist every week you're gonna gonna get out of debt because you're just paying the interest. If you talk to a therapist every week, you're gonna talk about the shit that happened that week. You need to go deep and you need to commit an amount of time and go all the way back to the beginning

and figure it out and it forward. And that's what I did. 60 days doing nothing but, I mean, I'm gonna, I don't mean literal therapy is in like, with just talking, but I mean, therapy is in all day long just working on yourself. Classes, I mean, there's a bunch of stuff,

but yeah, I mean, it changed my life, no question. No question. Interesting. Yeah. I'm the second person I know that's gone my life. No question. No question. Yeah. The second person I know that's gone through that. What's that? You're the second person I know that's gone through that program. I've heard really good things about it.

Yeah, it's great. That being said, you know, it's like anything. You get out of it, what you put into it, you know. You really have to, you know, you have to, I would say most progress, I mean, make a progress in yourself as a person is dependent on both the destruction of your ego, but at the same time, well, I guess it's also part of destructing your ego, but is accepting responsibility for everything. Like, I'm responsible for everything that's ever happened to me. Everything. Have to be.

Because if I'm not responsible for every negative thing that's ever happened to me, then I can't be responsible for a positive thing that's ever happened to me either. And if I'm not responsible, and somebody else is responsible, negative or positive, well, negative specifically, then it's on them. They have the power to fix it, I doubt. So do you, let's dissect this a little bit. So when a negative thing happens to you,

do you dissect it enough to find your mistake? Yep. Every single time. Well, yes, but I'll just change one word. So, don't always mistake. It's a mistake in hindsight. It doesn't mean it was a mistake at the time. Okay.

You know, and that's where responsibility comes in. So, you go back on a chain of events and find... You're always... Whether it's a good link, whether it's a bad link. This is what triggered this reaction to happen or this action. Let's say I went out at 11 p.m. here in Nashville. Let's say I left my hotel, I have two in the morning, whatever. I left the hotel at two in the morning because I was hungry and walked down street and somebody robbed me. Now most people would say you were a hundred

percent victim of robbery. And they're not wrong. The problem is that if I'm a hundred percent victim, I'll never be able to Fix that because it's on the robber to fix them fix me and I don't know who they are. I'll never see him again. You know what I mean? So And again, I've been I've said this before and people like, ah, you're victim blaming and I'm like You don't understand what I'm talking about. So, my responsibility is, and yeah, I'm not saying it was wrong, but my responsibility is I decided to go out at that time and do that.

That was my choice. Now would it make a difference if it was two in the afternoon? No. Because neither are wrong. Just because I go out at two in the morning, yeah, maybe it's more likely you're gonna get robbed, but we live in a free state like, that shouldn't mean anything. I'm not more or less responsible

because it happened at 2 p.m. or 2 a.m. more or less responsible because it happened at 2pm or 2am. The simple fact is, I chose to go out, I chose to walk that route. And then I go, it happened because I put myself there at that time. And then you go, all right. Shit happens, you don't control the world. And then you go, all right. Yeah, shit happens. You don't control the world.

Yeah. And then you just kind of go, all right. Because you have taken the responsibility for it. And that's empowering. If I go, no, no, no, I'm a victim man. I'm a victim. You'll always be a victim. I'm totally with you.

And I'm super excited that we're having this conversation because I do the exact same thing. I phrase it differently maybe, but when I wind up in a shitty situation or something, I'm not happy about. I don't sit there and initially I do. Initially I get pissed off. And I'm like, I got fucked over. It's how I designed it.

But then I'm constantly trying to learn from those positions. Maybe you're right, maybe they're not mistakes. Maybe they are mistakes. But I always want to know, okay, how did I wind up in this position? Or how did I wind up in this position again and again and again? And so, I'm constantly dissecting how I'm in this position. How did I wind up here? Good or bad.

You know, and you're right, it is very empowering. And you learn a lot from looking inward and you learn so much from looking inward. And when you quit blaming everybody and you go, all right, how the fuck did I wind up in this position? And you start retracing steps and dissecting every little move that you made and then you find it. If I wouldn't have done this, I wouldn't be in the position I'm at right now. I'm never going

to fucking do that again. And this doesn't work with the robbery analogy, but like, if you never look through and do that self-awareness, if you never do that, you're never gonna change the behavior because you're not seeing it. You're blaming everyone else. I'll give you a perfect thing that I just realized. So my current girlfriend basically had a conversation with me and it was not negative at all.

I was actually shockingly She's a unicorn, but She told me some things and it just It just made me think like the next day I thought about it all day and here's the conclusion I mean through a whole bomb I mean, it was a couple days, but it was like a whole process of self awareness. And then I came to a conclusion that blew my mind. So I have a girlfriend now, but my last two girlfriends, both cheated on me. So they both cheated on me.

One left me for the person that they cheer on with, and then the other tried, and it didn't work out because she was still seeing me anyways. But that, that messed me up. Well, why did it mess me up? Simple, I'll tell you exactly why it messed me up. And I mean, really messed me up. Because it reinforced

my childhood belief that I wasn't worth anything. Also reinforced childhood belief that they, you know, the other kids didn't want to hang out with me. They chose other people to go on to the water slides. So, I'm like this victim for, I hated, hated my ex for seven years, hated her. Because she cheated on me and then, you know, she left for the stoop, hated her.

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What's bricks? Bricks is the alliance between Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, and they are actively trying to devalue the US dollar. If you don't believe me, look it up. You're actually doing a phenomenal job at devaluing the dollar and recruiting more countries into that alliance. And if you haven't been paying attention to that, maybe you've been paying attention to the digital currency stuff.

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In my viewers receive up to $15,000 in free bonus metals with a qualified purchase. Once again, call 800-741-0551 or go to lear-shon.com. Information contained within Lear Capital's website is for general educational purposes and is not investment tax or legal advice Past performance may not be indicative of future results consult with your tax attorney or financial professional before making an investment decision It didn't go away. I had nightmares about it Dude and I actually I said this I've said go away. I had nightmares about it. Dude, and I actually, I said this, I've said it before and I kind of started my therapy stuff

with it when I was at work or start. I was like, look, getting blown up, all the military shit, don't care. I'm like, my girlfriend cheating on me, that broke my brain. Now I know why. It's because, another stuff that happened, you know, this happening to me had nothing,

it didn't tie into a negative core belief of me as a kid. Girls cheating on me did. So that's what messed up my brain. Interesting. So, years, I am having nightmares. seven years. I'm having nightmares about my ex for seven years. Yes. And that yeah, which I'm looking at two, three years into it. I'm like, okay, you know, we were together for almost ten years. So, you know, a couple two, three years, I was like, all right,

this is dormant, it'll go away. Seven years, and I was with somebody else at this time, and still it hadn't gone away. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like, you know, this is not normal. So then I did some therapy stuff, and it's still nothing worked. And finally, I mean, this is only six months, seven, eight months ago. I was just like, actually what happened was that new relationship I had, again, cheat sheeted left. So then I was single. Obviously, I'm not gonna contact my ex

when I was with the other girl, but then I was single and I was just like, you know what? Kind of as I said to you earlier about something unrelated, I've tried everything. Well, I haven't tried, I've never done any like the Iwaska stuff. I haven't done that, but other than that, I tried pretty much everything and I'm like, nothing's worked. So, I'm gonna try what I haven't tried. So I Instagrammed her and my Instagram was in hindsight pretty harsh, but like I said, I hated her. My Instagram was like, hey, I no longer hate you. That was like, and shockingly she replied to it.

But, you know, we talked a little bit, and then we ended up having dinner. And it was, I mean, it was crazy. It was absolutely crazy. Because after that dinner, like not even a, I mean before the dinner I obviously had changed my feelings towards her, but after the dinner like I consider like we're friends now. I'm going with all this, the promise there's a point. I take a while to get there, but you can add it, right? So the whole thing is

Again, my current girlfriend Kind of said some things to me that got me thinking now. I happened to talk to my ex I don't know eight months ago, whatever it is But I was still upset about the last girlfriend, not the one I've been talking about, but the last girlfriend that cheated on me, and I was really mad at her. Like, I was doing the same victim as pissed at her for cheating on me.

And what my girlfriend, current girlfriend, basically said was, and this girl's perfect. Perfect. I don't know how, but there's nothing wrong with her. I don't understand those kinds of people. Actually, Amy, she didn't have a rush out, but she's just, she's a great person. And her speech was essentially,

we went together for like five months. And her speech, or we went together for like five months. And her speech, her conversation was letting me know that I tell her these things, like how much she means to me, you know, all these different things, which I'm telling you, when I say them, I 100% mean them. I'm not lying or bullshitting or anything. But she was like. But your actions don't match what you're saying. And I was like, me like, wait, what? And she said some things to me.

And then I thought about it over a couple of days and I realized, what did she say? days and I realized what did she say? In short, in short, it was, I feel that you're going to leave me because there's always the next best thing. And I listen to her. And she's gorgeous. Well off camera, I'll show you picture. Gorgeous. But there's always a new gorgeous girl and a younger gorgeous girl. And you know, and I mean she was saying this. Not me. And And she said it to me and I was there and I was like, she's like, that's my fear. So I'm telling you this because I don't wanna,

I don't wanna be, I'm letting you know of something I'm concerned about, which I obviously super appreciate. It's actually changed a lot of things, but I was like, she said it and normally, or, you know, you'd be like, oh no, you know, no. She said it and I was like, you know what, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right because you are so good.

You're so good in every way that highly more than likely, subconsciously, I don't feel I deserve you. So I'll either self sabotage to ruin it or in a couple years, there'll be some girl who's super pretty or you know whatever and I'll upgrade my trophy. And again, that sounds ruthless and hardcore but that's the shitty you know hurt childmind that's trying to get external things to give them value. You know, I'll try and get someone else that see us with this girl. She's beautiful. And this one is now too. So I, I have value, you know, and I said that to her and, and, and then I was like, but I don't, but I don't want to be that way. And, and I'm sorry. And,

you know, thank you for telling me, I'm gonna work on this and I am but where it ties in with the Thinking about it I Realized with both those X's as with one for 10 years and one for five years I didn't marry either of them. I was always looking for the next best thing Not consciously, but subconsciously. I always had one foot out the door. It's my fault they cheated on me, because I wasn't committed. It's my fault. All the pain that I experienced for seven years, My fault, not hers.

She was just doing what, just protecting herself. Of note, the guy that she left me for, they're still together. And they have kids together, but it was, I was still hurt, I wasn't hurt anymore about the X because I'd done with her and everything, but the other X, I was still hurt, I wasn't hurt anymore about the X because I'd done her with her and everything, but the other X, I was still pretty upset about it. Until my girlfriend was like, you know, you're doing this and then I realized, holy shit,

it was my fault that she cheated on me. It was my fault, not hers, my fault. Now that I'm not the victim, doesn't bother me. I mean, it bothers me that it's a shitty part of myself that I gotta fix, but far as hurting me, it doesn't hurt me anymore. Makes me want to fix it, but it doesn't hurt.

If you fixed it, I think a lot of guys from our background, I think it's super common. Yeah. I mean, that's how the fuck we got in. That's how you got in. It is the next best thing. It is a side effect of a lack of worth, self worth, fundamental self worth. You know, and it's interesting that we just had this conversation about how the military depends on that. The parties, yeah, just the similar, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, have I fixed it?

No, I mean, literally this is like last week. That just happened last week. Yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah, just happened last week. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just happened last week. And, um, sorry, I mean, I just figured all this stuff out. Um, but I did start, um, I mean, I You know the Just the The term is

Oh, here's the other thing. Why have I not been all in in a relationship? I can tell you it's very simple Because the only the only way to be all in Is to expose yourself to emotional pain, potential emotional pain. Yeah, that's too risky. I'll just half-ass it for a couple years, shall we me, and then I'll be upset at her and I'll be the victim, and then I won't be the bad guy.

I'll just do that weirdly it gets easier. Seems like it could be the opposite. That's a damn good way to put it. Well, hey, let's take a quick break. We'll come back. We'll get into your military career, and we'll get into some more of this kind of stuff. Do it, dude.

Perfect. Thank you for listening to The Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes, and leave The Sean Ryan Show review. We read every review that comes through and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show.

All right Tyler, this segment, we are going to dive into your military career but we did just have a good discussion and we cut it off. If I'm guilty of one thing, it's always talking off camera about stuff, I should be talking about a long camera. I'm gonna say, I'm really bad at that, really bad.

But it was an interesting discussion. You're basically saying, I don't know how to say it, but why aren't people more open on camera? You're basically saying, it would help a lot of people if people were more open on camera, but instead people chased that,

this is what I think people want me to be, and they get themselves into this character mindset or whatever you wanna call it. And I know exactly what you're talking about because when I left contracting for the agency, I started the training thing, like everybody, right? Everybody gets out, I started training thing. Started a training thing.

And what I noticed is all these trainers at that time period, I knew half these fucking guys. And you knew that wasn't them. I know that's not them. And I could see them and I'm like, man, that shit's gotta be exhausting. Everybody already thinks you're a fucking tough guy from the special operations community.

You know, people are already scared shitless of you. But you get these guys who are all yoked up, you know, and they play the tough guy part. And you just know that's not them. And when I was coming into the training game, I decided very early on, I don't want to have to act like that all the fucking time because that's not me and that shit would be exhausting having to play that character 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 fucking days a year

until you die. Absolutely. I mean, I... I assume... Do you know about the documentary that I did? I do. Okay. So, that was really the first... I think that was the first time I really talked on camera. So on that, you know, we didn't, I didn't know, I wouldn't let Rick, I didn't know any questions who's going to ask me. I wouldn't,

I didn't know anything when he turned the camera on, I'd answer the questions right there. We never did a second take. Never. So everything is my first response, you know, right then. If I ever get, if I ever do interviews, I'll go, I, no, don't give me the questions. I don't want to, like, I'm rehearsed. I'm not, ask me, I'll give you an answer. That being said, did kind of screw me over one time, but actually, I'll tell you the story,

it'll create, because it's kind of funny. I mean, this is like a newscaster. On the set of Steel Team, it's a season one episode two. And they're like, hey, will you do this interview with some guy from whatever news? I'm like, sure. So I sit down, and again, it was a professional newscaster. It's not like a freaking, you know, some kid on YouTube, right? And I sit down and I'm in like a wet suit because we're filming because so I hear you could kill me with a pencil. That's this first question. And I was like, yeah, like in my head I'm like, I did not see you like really, like,

anyone briefed this guy, like that's what you're leading with. I think my response was technically you can kill somebody with anything, which you go, this is true, or you I'm an uneven kill person. But to include water. But the, you know, so on that thing, I just, I'm going to be me. And, you know, I just kind of kept the same, yes, me a question. I'm going gonna answer it. Unfiltered. And the thing I learned is that, I used to say this one, I used to do speaking stuff,

but like, I can't tell, you know, if I'm in a room of 100 people. I can't tell anyone here how to be happy. Everyone's super different, all have different interests, hobbies, whatever. I can't give you a formula for being happy. But right now, definitively, I can give everyone here

a formula for absolute misery. Be someone other than who you are. Absolute misery, no question, and it will, in every situation, eventually, who you really are, will find its way to the top, and then you'll be happy. I'm gonna rephrase that a little bit too, just to... Oh yeah, yeah. Just for the slow learners like myself.

Don't be who you think everybody wants you to be. Just fucking be yourself. What worry about what everybody else thinks you should be doing. Thinks you should be. Thinks what you shouldn't be doing, you need to fucking do what you wanna do. So yes, and I'll give a couple of things that I say based on that specific piece,

and that is, why do so many people, I shouldn't say so many people, why in general do we take advice or listen the same thing to people who aren't where we want to be? If you listen to them, you will get what they have. You will be where they are. That's how they got there. Not only that, but if you listen to what they want,

like let's just look at society in general. You know, the fundamental will of society is, you know, it's the average, it's most. If you do what society wants you to do, that is a, that is a, oh, military term. It's been a while, but I got it. That is a hardball road to averageness right there. And yet we feel this pressure.

I mean, I felt it for a long time. And also on top of that for a long time, I felt like... I needed everyone to like me. You don't feel that pressure anymore? No. Nothing. No. Fuck everyone. No shit.

Fuckin' fucking good for you, man. I still feel it. I don't succumb to it, but I still feel it. Nope. I now... actually feel the opposite. Fuckin' hate me. Really? Yeah. I'll tell you right now, I feel it right now because I know why everybody,

what they want to hear from you. They want to hear your combat shit. And I want to give it to them, but I'm enjoying this conversation more than that. I'm just telling you, I feel the pressure, you know, and we're about two hours into this right now, and we haven't even barely touched on any of that, and I'm cool with it. I don't feel the pressure. No, I mean, I feel the pressure, but I'm not succumbing to it. We'll get there.

I think here's why I say that. And that is I've done things and I'm air quotations, like I've done things the right way. Some people like me, some people hated me. I did things the wrong way. Some people like me, some people hated me. It doesn't matter what you do. Doesn't matter.

Like, Elon Musk. Some people like him, some people hate him. Doesn't matter what he does. Like, no matter what you do, your friends are gonna love you no matter what, and your enemies are gonna hate you no matter what and your enemies are gonna hate you no matter what. So why try and cater to their desires or whims like it just doesn't mean anything.

And people, you know, again, this is a great thing for the active duty people. It's like why do and not to repun your community, but why do you still write books? Is it because they're unprofessional? No, it's because they got out. They earned their stories and they monetized them. Is this wrong?

I don't think so. It's their story. Do whatever you want with your story. You earned it. And it's a... Guys that write books, people that don't like them, hate them more, their friends, still their friends

Doesn't matter. I mean, I'm not saying I agree with everything that's ever been done, but I'm just saying in general You know When you get out too you you look at you you you're not in It's just not the same and The problem our fundamental problem is Why do so many guys write books? And the problem, our fundamental problem is, why do so many guys write books as an example? Why do so many guys start training companies? And by so many, I mean, everyone, I did it. You did it too?

Oh yeah, dude, who didn't? Why did you do it? Because you think that's what everybody wanted you to do? No, I actually did it pretty early on. I mean, I was gun, I'm playing guns as a kid, you know? I was like, I love guns. And at the time, I got kind of burned out training. I still like training CQB because it's more about philosophy

than it is like hard tactics. I teach very strange CQB because it's more about concepts and not about techniques, because the technique is is irrelevant if you know the concept. But the training thing, it goes back to, you know, if you were a, you know, warriors throughout history had jobs after war. We don't know. That's true. They don't even want us to be cops.

Yeah. So what are we supposed to do? Die. Go fishing on military retirement. So what are we supposed to do? Die? You're fishing on military retirement? No. Are you going to get a guy write a book? Great. Fuck them.

Fuck the government. Fuck the people that are still in. Why? Because they're still in. They don't know what it's like to be out. We've been there. We know what it's like to be in. You don't know what it's like to be out. We've been there. We know what it's like to be in. You don't know what it's like to be out. So if you want to judge someone, judge them and you win, you're

in the same position, you know, and till you're there, hold off on it. But for me, dude, I like, I'm going to be myself. I'll be who I am, which I'm not an angel, I'm not a saint. Like I said, I am shit if this was a radio show and we had a call in, shit, we could probably get 200 girls to call in and talk about what a piece of shit I am. And they would all be right. Dudes, I don't think a dude would call in. And, you know, like, but for girls,

yeah, I've been a piece of shit. No question. And I am absolutely comfortable admitting that because it's only understanding and admitting that that's allowed me to change. So on that, though, going back to what we started with is once you accept and can just throw out your flaws and it's who you are, and once you're comfortable

with who you are, and you don't need to be something else, that's when you'll actually start feeling comfortable. Like, self, I believe that life is just a process. Everyone says that life is about, life is about, what is it, building, life is about building, building who you are. There's some saying life is about, like, you know, building who you are. There's some saying life is about, like building who you are.

I disagree. Really? Yeah, I think that's absolute horseshit. I don't think it makes any sense at all. How so? So, if life is about building who you are. I've talked a lot of people and asked them, Mike, if you could do anything, what would

you do right now? Blah, whatever it is. Did you like that as a kid? Yep. I think we know who we are as children. I mean, there's a lot we don't know. First, the world. But first, who we are. I think the best knowledge of that is us as kids.

And then I think walls get put in front of us by society, parents, friends, blah, blah, blah. And it steers us away from who we are. Well, I would definitely agree with that 100%. But don't you think that through life's experiences, that also builds who you are? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I don't mean that you don't build more of who you are,

but I mean like on a fundamental level of interest and you know, your core personality, do that's there from, you know, very early on. If you read the four agreements by Donald Ruiz, by chance, he talks about this. He talks about the indoctrination that starts from the moment you're born into religion, into education, your parents, your grandparents, your friends, everybody. Everybody is indoctrinating you into what they think you need to become literally from the fucking moment you're born. I'm gonna give you that book, I think I have it right there.

I wanna give it to you to show it really. I love it. Well, so it's funny, you say that because why wasn't I, because I was never indoctrinated. Everybody's indoctrinated. Well, one way or another, sorry, everybody's indoctrinated. I, one way or another, sorry, I was indoctrinated. I was, obviously, but not as heavily.

And I'll tell you why. It's because my parents didn't give a shit what I did. Yeah. They weren't pushing anything on me. You know what I mean? So I remember being a kid, listening to shit, my parents were saying and being like, that doesn't make any fucking sense. It's like, I'm not gonna do that.

Like, they didn't force me to go to church. There's a lot of things that was pushed to college. Like, they couldn't afford it. They told me, like, good luck. I'm like, I mean, it didn't matter. I didn't want to go to college anyways. But, you know, there was a lot of those, like I see it with, you know, good parents that are actually, you know, in their kids' lives, but at the same time, they're definitely

pushing an agenda. And yeah, I just, I was lucky. My lack of parental supervision, you know, helped me kind of look at everything, oh, that makes more sense, I'm gonna do that. But yeah, that self-actualization, I, I'll say this. Actually, because it's kind of thing is pretty fucking important. A lot of times I remember, like I think of shit that's actually really obscure, but like

major glaring obvious shit, it won't even cross my mind. So this is an example. I just thought of this now. It's like ties everything together that we're talking about. So childhood. So it's a very nice sensitive kid. Why? Well, many reasons.

But my mom, I mean, I never saw my dad. My dad was a fucking, so this is a true story. When my mom and dad met, my dad was a cowboy who lived on a ranch. And on the weekends, he went into town and pull sharked at a pool, literally called the pearly cue.

My mom was a waitress. So that's my dad. But my mom raised me. So my mom raised me to be pretty much the opposite of my dad. My dad, kind of an asshole. Well, especially when he drinks. So she raised me to be nice to everyone.

Everyone needs to like you. That's how she raised me. And when I was in the eighth grade, like again, no experience with girls. I hadn't even really kissed a girl in by the eighth grade. We moved houses. So the whole group that I grew up with, we moved houses to another school district,

another neighborhood. And it was at this time that I was pretty frustrated. I was frustrated that in my mind, I was a good kid. That was nice, you know, and the girls didn't like me. I just, I didn't get it, you know. And at the same time, I saw a bunch of my friends, you know, not being serial killers, but just being, guys, you know, guys, you know, and you know, I can happen to choose which

girl they're going to go out with on this night or really at that time and go to the mall on a weekend. But so I was playing, I played a lot of role-playing games. Originally it was Dungeons and Dragons and then it was this other role-playing game. And I made a character, it was based on the future but I made a character and I know it sounds crazy and it is. And the character is just a think of fight club.

You know, the character was my Brad Pitt. It was who I wanted to be. Like if you make up the character for a game, you make like a version of yourself, like the video game best version of yourself. So I made up this character. And then I don't remember the definitive point was but I was switching schools and I just started to act like the character.

And that character, I mean it's not like the role-playing game was about picking up girls, but the character was a veteran. I mean, it was just... But like I wrote a whole, you know, whole backstory, all kinds of stuff. And so I just completely changed my personality completely, night and day. And I became... Again, I don't want to use the word asshole, but... You know, I don't want to use the word asshole, but, you know, I became, I became what

I saw working, which maybe was an asshole. Either way. And it worked. Hmm. And it was a hyper confident. Was it manufactured confidence? Yeah. But people can't tell the difference, especially when you've convinced yourself, you know, and I play the hyper confident, you know, super outgoing, freaking, you know, I mean, I'm, once I started talking to girls, I realized like, shit, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can,

you know, I've got gain, you know what I mean, I can, I can, you know, do well in a conversation. And, um, uh, so that, you know, I started that and like the really the ninth grade, I just came a completely different person. And then I suddenly had, you know, you know, if I could get in four different girls I was seeing at one time. And I promise I, again, I'm going somewhere with this, but that version of myself, or that created character, then I was in the military. I got my high school, joined. My drainage line went to the unit. Again, dude, I was, I mean, dude, if we went on a train trip,

I manhored for a long time. Again, full disclosure. Oh, which, why though? Why was I such manhored for a long time, again, full disclosure. Oh, which, why though? Why was I such manhore? Well, simple, because I'm trying to that grow like that's value. It's like, well, I can get her. So that means, like if she thinks that I'm good enough

for her, then that means I'm good. But because it's never an internal feeling, it's never enough, because nothing, like you do it and then it happens and then, it doesn't mean anything. No. So then, like I had this girlfriend, which is a little crazy story how we met.

And then I got hurt. The reason I'm going through that whole freaking thing is when I got hurt and I got out of the hospital, I was no longer an operator. I lost everything. I lost, you know, to get lost, I forget how many pounds, but I look like, I was, I probably lost 50 pounds in the hospital, I couldn't move, you know, for a while,

or get up, I should say. And what broke me, I wasn't like the physical pain, and it was, I wasn't like the physical pain in me that it was, I was out of the hospital, maybe a year post injury, I don't know. And this took me a long time to figure out, but that fake, that character, that confident character I had created,

and all the things I got in the military just kept feeding that confidence and that persona. And then when I lost it, and I lost my physical ability, you know, I lost my shape, all those things, it basically cracked that false identity that I had made. It was built on quicksand. Well, all right, it was built on cement, but I didn't know that cement was sand. And over time, you know, it got eroded and it cracked it and it split and the old fucking thing came down. So my real, what messed me up about this, what this caused, yeah, physical pain, whatever, what it really caused that hurt

was an identity crisis. Cause I realized that I didn't know who I was. I didn't know I'd, yeah. Because I made that up when I was 12. And I've been living that. Let's rewind, because I wanna get to that. Yeah. Let's rewind.

Let's get into your military career. Okay. So, join the military, were you 18? I know, I was like 19. 19? No, I was like 19. 19? Yeah, I waited. Well, I went to LA and tried to... The two things I wanted to do as a kid, well, I already told you.

I love film and I loved, um, um, the military. So you tried acting first? Uh, no, no, I didn't... I actually didn't know at the time what I wanted to do at Hollywood. I just wanted to work. So yeah, I moved to LA and tried to, I didn't work out. I mean, I got some funny stories just of how unaware I was, you know, of the process, but I mean, it is what it is. But yeah, so then I joined. From actually, I know, of the process. But, I mean, it is what it is. But, um, yeah, so then I joined. From, actually, I literally joined from the Hollywood,

there was an arm here with Kruter in Hollywood across from, um, capital records, the capital records building. It's not there now, but that's where I joined from, literally Hollywood, so, Jesus, the amount of times I heard fucking Hollywood it maps, because it said it, Hollywood, you know. In hindsight, I would have picked a different office

to draw out of it. That was a bad idea. Well, what was the point then? The decided, all right, this film thing is not going to work. Oh, I realized. and then they decided, all right, this film thing is not gonna work. I don't know how to turn around. I realized, it wasn't that I knew it wasn't gonna work. It was that I realized it was gonna take serious time.

And I also somehow at that time realized that the military, you have to do one when you're young. You know, um, so I was just like, you know what? I just got to get this out of my system for lack of a better term. And I went into the recruiter and so I wanted to be a green beret because literally because of Rambo or first blood, well, Rambo first blood. And so I went in and I'm like, I wanna be a great guy. I can't do that, because I didn't have the SF baby program then,

18X rate. And so I was like, well, like what's, you know, what's the hardest thing I could do, right? I had a Ranger, and I had, literally had a Ranger poster, I had all the army units. A lot of people, I get this all the time,

people are like, you know why don't you become a sill? And I tell them the honest answer and no one believes me. What is it? I do not float. And that's a damn good reason. Everyone says, no, no, everyone floats. And I try and say, no, they don't. That is a misconception. I will go to the bottom of the pool, well, not all the way to the bottom. Actually, let me back up. I can float. I just want to be able to breathe.

I won't sink to the bottom of the ocean, but my head will be underwater. I won't sink to the bottom of the ocean, but my head will be underwater. How'd it be a big deal? Just a dad. I did. I try to tell people that I like everyone floats. I'm like, I, I, I, you got to put the air in your eye. I'm like, I know how to fucking do it. I'm telling you, and actually, as a kid, when I was learning to swim, like they kept telling

me I was doing it wrong. And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, my lungs are full, and I'm going under. I've always been like that. And I'm sure you know, that's a thing, thank you. Yeah, never an option. Never even a possibility. I was like, because for me, the water,

dude, it was just like the amount of energy I'd have to Expand just to be in the water like I hate the water Well actually now going scuba diving If I can control my buoyancy and breathe underwater awesome. I love I love scuba diving. Yeah Anyways, yeah, the dude divided dollar for every time people asked me about buds, even though a million times said, I was never a seal. People were still like, how was buds?

Like I don't know. Maybe that's because you produced the show, Sil team. But just a hunch. Even that, I still say. Like I put it out there in a lot of places. But so then yeah, they're like a ranger contract and I was just like Done and I like join

I think that day or the next day. Oh That fast. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, they were super excited and Hollywood that I could just pass gas valve that was like That like blue their minds that I passed They were like, well, we got a guy. All right. Yeah, this is great. Or I should say that I wanted to join and I passed on like the first term, which I don't know how I got

the score I did, because I've like, like I never paid attention to school. So that lucky. But yeah, I joined and I can honestly say like, man, like basic training, freaking, everything. Like, I had fun, like I liked it. Like, I truly enjoyed every... there wasn't anything other than admin bullshit, like if it was like other than admin stuff I hated, but if it was like, you know, a no course or anything, like I loved everything about that experience. I remember being at MEPs, or is it MEPs?

No, no, no, no, no, 30th AG, which is like, before you go to basic training, you're at like this, you know, like the processing, like you fly from your city and then you go and you're like processing before you get inside. Yeah, I was there and I was like, I mean, I'll be perfectly honest. I took that shit way too seriously. You know what I mean? Like way too seriously. Like I was like, I mean, I'd get annoyed if people were talking and forming it. You know, in my head, I'm like, I will fucking stand here at parade rest for eight hours, fuck you.

And I won't say a word. Like, to me, that was a professional soldier, you know? Now I kind of look back and, you know, the guys that were smoking and joking before the instructors came out. Yeah, that was probably the right move, you know? But, yeah, I mean, I had fun. Yeah. Where did you go in? 97. What did you join? Is there anything going on then? No, nothing. No. No, the only, I mean, it obviously

wasn't going on, but what was fresh was Somalia. So, you know, Somalia was like, you know, the military always fights the last war. So, Somalia was, and I'm being in range of Italian. Somalia was like a reference to almost every training we did, you know? Interesting. So, where did you go from there? where did you go from there? Where'd you go from training? So I did the, you know, it was a different process now, but the process then was based training, and where it's called RIP.

Got assigned a range of time. My first job, I think in, you know, saw Gunners, you know, something sexy. Now, I was an assistant machine gunner At the time we didn't even carry a rifle. Oh, man. I had a fucking M9 and an AG bag that weighed with ammo like Fucking I'm gonna wait 110 pounds one time Fucking I'm gonna wait 110 pounds one time seven a hundred rounds of 762 by 51 is 7.7 pounds And I still remember that well ironically so is it 240 barrel is 7.7 pounds really yeah ironically

But yeah, I had the tripod teen all steel right And every hundred rounds 7.7 pounds. Thousand rounds in machine gun is not a lot. That's 77.7 pounds damn yeah and I had two spare barrels so yeah my first year and range of time was just basically a mule you you know, which again that At the time, you know, I looked at like the guys doing the cool shit, you know, and I'm fucking carrying a hundred pounds of bullshit in a pistol you know But in hindsight It really set me up for success later because you know 110 pound rub. Alright, I mean, socks, but you know, it's more, rucking specifically, it's way more mental

than it is physical, you know, it just feels like you're at 10 Kien getting crushed, but the body can do much more than the mind wants to. So I learned a lot from that job, and then I went to Ranger School, I think after a year-ish, which was fast at the time. The graduated Ranger School came back. I don't know how long I was in. Actually, I came back and I was still on a gun team. I actually, I just remembered.

So I came back as a tab spec for in Ranger Battalion, which when you go to Ranger School and come back and get your tab, you're considered, you're not a sergeant, but you're like a leader-ish, you know, to privates. So 9.9 times out of 10 in a gun squad, a weapon squad, 9.9 times out of 10, the gunner is the tab one. I just happen to come back to an all-tabbed weapon squad. So now I've got my tab. Yeah, I'm awesome.

And I'm still a fucking assistant gunner carrying the fucking AG bag. Damn, my entire time in weapon squad, I was never a gunner. Are you serious? Where are you? I mean, it's hilarious to me now. Like, I never was a gunner.

Actually, the one training thing that I was gonna be a gunner for, I was all excited just, fuck, you know. I can, it's not, well, actually was live rounds, but this fucking turd we had, it's the only time I've ever seen or even heard of it happening, but he went AWOL. And so because he left, I had to be the AG for the other guy. I'll say that son

of a bitch. Oh my god. So funny. And on that note of that guy, so as me and my buddy were like his leaders, all the other privates in the entire platoon were getting their shit handed to them daily. Daily. Me and this guy, he was in the British military in like the 80s, like old school dude. Me and him were just like, look man, we're just gonna trim, you know, we're not gonna,

you know, well I'll, we'll smoke this shit out of me at PT in the morning, you know, we're not gonna, you know, well, I'll, we'll smoke this shit out of me at PT in the morning, you know, and we'll, we'll push him, but we won't haze him. And that fucker goes, he had it a thousand times easier than any other private there. Anyways, and so I ended up being the AG again. And then the sniper section in the battalion had like a little selection tryouts.

And I was like, hell yeah, I'm gonna do that. So I went in and tried out for that and me and my another buddy of mine from the St. Patun went over there. And then I was there for the rest of my time in range of time. How long were you in range of a time? I had, see, I was there for like four and a half years

something like that. So I think I was there for maybe three and a half snipers. Oh, three and a half years as a sniper, huh? Three or three and a half, I have to do the math. Did you deploy with Ranger Battalion? Yeah, yeah, Afghanistan. What year? Oh, two.

Oh, two? Yeah, because I was in second, so it went third, did the jump and the canter first did the, well, basically did QRF out of, out of canter which was when Robert's Ridge happened. And then we rotated them out. So we came right after Anaconda and we basically, that was when all the pushes were happening to the outstations. So I went and pushed out with the, oh, funny, interesting tidbit.

So I was one of the first people at Schin, which they renamed all the, you know, that's what it was called because that's the town it was in. The first black water team led by Eric Prince himself lived upstairs above us. Really? Yeah, that's interesting. Yep. Eric Prince himself was there, it was like a five band team with very small because there was agency people at the pub.

But, and actually I met Eric Prince, I don't know, it shot you or whatever. And I brought it up to him and he's actually I met Eric Prince, I don't know, it's Shachur or whatever, and I brought it up to him and he's like, oh no shit, I mean, he didn't remember me, but he remembered obviously being there. Yeah. But the reason that I had more interaction with him is because they were all at that time,

the contract was more sniping. And so they all had like, I figured what they had. But anyways, you know, like, I was giving them the ammo and stuff because I was sniping as well. So, yeah, then, and then while I was in Afghanistan, I, so as a sniper, I was, we're a battalion asset, or at least the way it was structured, then battalion assets. So, it wasn't assigned to any specific platoon or company or anything.

So I kind of bounced around, or my team, I should say, and I bounced around. I was a sniper team leader at that time. And we got assigned to go do a mission with a team from the unit. Because they didn't have snipers with them. So we went on that and after that I was like, I'm trying out as soon as I get back. Well let's talk about opening all these bombs. What was that? I mean, that was early on. Oh Well, let's talk about opening all these bumps. What was that?

I mean, that was early on. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was when they first opened, yeah. I would think that would be amazing work. I mean, it... It was strange and hindsight. I mean, dude, I was doing, like me and my team were doing four day patrols. But literally leaving the fob, four Rangers, and we'd be gone three or four days, just on

our own. No fucking way they would do that now. But we didn't know, you know what I mean? It was just different than. No one had, I mean, did we be out fucking, you know, hanging it out there back then. What was the point where you guys doing? the directive of the platoon we were attached to, we were basically a forward warning system for the fob. We'd also doing Recky of some of the, you know, surrounding areas,

too many offensive type stuff. No, not really. I mean, it was nothing, there was nothing crazy that deployment wasn't, I mean, there was, you know, like, you know, an SF team got ambushed and then we reacted to their ambush and, you know, like, you know, an SF team got ambushed and then we reacted to their ambush and, you know, did that whole thing. I mean, there was nothing, one of the guys died at the fob, but like, I mean, you know.

It wasn't like what you were expecting. It wasn't, it wasn't what I was, it wasn't the war I was hoping for. So what happened on the operation that you went on with Delta? Um, it was, I can't get what the fuck we were doing. We went somewhere for something, remember what? But we got shot at. And...

Which also was my first real dude fucking counter-stiming and hard. I mean, when you're in a mallet like, you know, it was like a needle in a haystack. But it was just, again, it was just a different, there was a different level, different environment, different, different everything. Can you just walk us through that up in detail?

So we, I mean, I don't remember it's super, I mean, nothing crazy happened. That's why I don't remember it's super well. We, I do not remember what we're doing. Well, what was it that happened on that operation that made you go, I want to be over there. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it was just, it, it was just the, It was just the competence of those guys, confidence, confidence, knowledge. It was like, it was, it was like, they were morpheus. Like they knew everything.

You know, it's like, I'm just like, what the fuck? Like, it blew my mind. And there's a crazy tie-in to the team leader of that team leader, which is, again, crazy. But just everything was just like, I mean, I was at the point in range of tying. I was a sniper team. No, shit, actually, I was a sniper section leader. Sorry.

I was a sniper section leader. So, at that point, I wasn't really learning, I was just, I was teaching, you know, and I just wanted to be Joe again and be learning from going way better than me. And that's who I felt when I was with them. I'm like, do these guys are leaps and bounds above me? You know what I mean? Like, I need to be somewhere where I'm back to being the lowest man on the total pool and in knowledge and skill. You're looking for that challenge.

Exactly. I wanted to like, I wanted everyone to be, I wanted everyone around me to be better. Because that's how you get better. And so when I got back from that deployment, like I went to the first, what do you mean was and dropped my packet. Well, what was, you said that was the first time you've been shot at? Yeah, I, what's it?

I think so. Can't remember anything before that. How did it feel? Were you excited? Oh, yeah, I was super excited. Yeah, I was super excited. And like, second, third time. Still like, you know, yeah.

I mean, maybe had the bullet hit between my legs. I wouldn't have been so excited, you know, but yeah, did you engage anyone? No, no, not on that. Like I said, I mean, I forget how many shots were fired, but it was just even repeated shots. I was like, you know, it's like a helicopter, you know, where, you know, I could not, you know,

try and you wait where the hell was coming from. Bieno, I was, it wasn't until my first Iraq deployment that I really like was like, oh, this is, like, this is war. You know, like, ah, like, I mean, Afghanistan was, and it was just, you know, every war or location, you know, it's like when veteran, non-Vetrons talk about non, it's like, you know, you say you were dening, and making something up, but you're here.

Well, were you here in this year? Or this, you know, it's just a completely different war, you know, everywhere. So, you know, the core goal of Alley, when the beginning was like, you know, Elde Phobbs, it wasn't until later that the kind of people moved in when they first went into Baghdad in 2003.

Dude, my buddies were saying that they would after, like from the green zone, they'd go in light-skinned vehicles and go rug shopping, you know, wasn't until post after the, the black water thing happened in fluja. Around that time, that's when shit started kicking off. So it's just interesting how the same place

just changes so dramatically over time. Yeah. So you came back from Afghanistan, you put a packet in to go over to Delta. How long did that take to get over there? I got back in August, I think. I think I got back in August. And then I went to selection in March. Yeah, August and then I went to selection in March. And made it through selection first time.

Yeah, yeah. First time I've heard that. I think it's not common. I think I forget the number,'s the majority is the second time. And put it this way, the whole time I was in selection, I was in my head freaking constantly a oring, everything I did and everything for the second time. Like I had no expectation of making it the first time.

I mean, you don't know shit. Like, you know, I even had, this is a funny story. I worked that EP gig I told you about. I worked for one of the guys that made the standards. Oh, really? Yeah, wow, He had been drinking. I had dinner with him. He had been drinking so I was like,

asked him some things. And what he told me, again, even drinking and saying anything. But what he did say just confused me even more. What did you ask him? I was asking him certain like like, cumulative time, you know, just like details about the timing, you know, I was just trying to like, I was just trying to, you know, pick and get it and you do, like,

it, it just, it just confused me more. Like, I don't think he was aware enough to bullshit me, but everything you think, it's just, it's the best kept secret in the military, first I'm concerned. No one knows anything. I mean, and the people that know don't tell anyone, but it's, I can tell you, I know a lot,

and it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know how it works. So Interesting. Yeah, it's like I said, I was really hoping to get some kind of a Something just something to make it make a little bit more sense like and it it didn't but sense. Like, and it didn't. But, um, yeah, yeah, I went fully with the expectation of going again. What were you trying to make sense of? Um, the standards, what they're looking for? No, no, no, no, no, I was specifically, because everything's timed. So I was trying to figure out the details on, okay, on the time. Not on what the times were, because I wouldn't even be relevant.

But just trying to understand what they were based off, like they created the standards. So I was, again, I made it, it doesn't matter to me, but I was just trying to understand the selection standards. Yeah, understand what they were like, what were they based on? Or like how did they figure it out? You know, I was just, shit like that, I was just curious.

And yeah, I just got more confused and curious. But, I mean, is a very I mean, is a very... Before going, and even there, I was like, I don't see how this applies to the job. After doing the job for a few years, I'm like, I totally see how this applies to the job. It's, I mean, again, it's mostly taken from British S.A.S. election, how they came up with the whole thing.

I don't know, but it's interesting. It's an interesting process. What is something that you didn't think applied to the job after a few years? You realized, Holy shit, this applies. Definitely applies to the job that after a few years, you realized, Holy shit, this applies definitely applies to the job. Well, I mean, what, so let's use just counterterrorism in general. I mean, how does rucking, you know, carrying a pack through various terrain alone and navigating, like how does that have anything to do with CQB

and hostage rescue? Like I, that was like, I don't get it. No, good. And then later I'm like, oh, I get it, you know, so, and again, there's no official, you know, so again, there's no official, you know, it's not like they say this translates to this because, you know, it's just my perspective on what I think it means and why I think it works and why it's a good system, but, you know, doing it, I mean, again, I had fun then, you

know, like, I'm off on my own, doing Latin now. It's not like I have somebody in my face yelling at me, yelling at me, calling me a hero, you know, it's like, just like a land elf, you know. I'll tell you this, I'll tell you this about section, because I'll never forget it. It was just interesting to me. I was one of the days I was walking and like, let's say I was here and then I went here and then I got there and then they're like all right you got to go here. I was like all

right so I went there same place and then I got there and I'm like I need to go here I'm like same place I mean they did say anything, but I was like, no, no, no, no. That's easy. I knew how to get there. I don't know how many times I did that. And people quit from that. Because they're like, I was just there

as if there's a destination. There's a destination. There's no destination. I'm gonna walk until you tell me to stop. I'm gonna go fuck up, I go to Mexico. You know what I mean? Like it doesn't, I can walk in a circle. Like it's irrelevant to me. But some people, you know,

they're just in their head, they don't think it at that way. They think of it like, but I was just there. I could have been done. I was there. It's like, there is no there. You're not here, you're not there. There's no in-state.

There in-state is, you're done. I'm never forget that, but that was interesting. It is interesting, yeah. Yeah, but that was interesting. It was interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I was just like, it never accrued to me. Like it never bothered me. I didn't think of it that way. You were never like, how many fucking times am I gonna do this shit?

Yeah, like I just, to me, I'm like, I'm gonna tell me to go somewhere I'll go. Like I, I don't care. And, but, but, I think that's, again, that's an interesting, like how many things like in the military, like do you just have to, you can't get attached to the details of it, you just have to do it, you know? It's like, if you thought about the specifics of it, it would drive you crazy.

But you just have to, like, like, you just have to get it done, you know? And again, I don't know what the overall method to the madness is, but, yeah. A lot of things like that where you're just like, ah, all right, I see, again, in hindsight, like there I was just, I did it, gave it my best every day and, um, then at the end, you know, they're like, you're good. I was like, cool.

Like, it was a little too tired to be super happy about it, but, uh, uh, uh, um, but I will say this to like, when I went to selection, so the class before me had, I want to say five or six. I can't remember. Had five or six guys from second bat, which is where I was. And I mean, these are, these were five or six guys from second bat, which is where I was.

And I mean, these were five or six of the fittest fucking dudes that second bat had. None of them made it. No shit. None of them made it. So then when I was going, I went by myself because everyone was like, those dudes didn't make it. I'm not fucking going. because everyone was like, those dudes didn't make it.

I'm not fucking going. And when I had my pack of approved or anything that was going, people like, dude, why the fuck are you going? Like, so and so, so and so, so and so and so and so went last class and they didn't make it. And I was like, yeah, so like, was I have to do it with me? Like, you know what I mean? Okay, they're fit, but I don't know.

Just again, it didn't matter to me. I didn't, and the reason I bring it up is because somehow, which doesn't make sense to me, somehow I've been able to have such a low opinion of myself for so long, yet in other areas, complete confidence. You know, like I had a low opinion about myself in every way, I'd go, shit, those guys didn't make it, oh, I'm definitely not doing it. Be like, with that, it was just like, I'm definitely not doing it. But like with that, it was just like, well, that's not me.

Well, we also discussed this earlier. You would set it yourself. If somebody tells you you can't do something, you're gonna bump into it. That's true. Yeah, that's true. And so there's that aspect that is very true. I think a lot of guys going into, I mean,

Rangers as well, not just all the way up to the unit, but all throughout special operations, I think that's a factor. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and so you got in. That was fun though. I mean, I had to get time there and yeah, then I moved over there and started, I forget how long exactly.

It's almost a year like of training. That was both civil. That was both, Sidol. That was rough. Yeah, I mean, I was still, which is common, but I was still healing from selection when I went to the next thing. I mean, my body was still beat up. And I had focused on all cardio and rucking, And then the next thing was not that at all. And hindsight, I would train very differently for, you know, but, but that dude was. That was what I had. That's what I had been looking for. That was like the movie cool shit.

Yeah. I mean to me, you know, it was like, all right, like this is, this is movie cool. Like this is commando shit. Did you know anybody over there? Not well. I mean, I knew a couple guys, but not by and large. And it's not a thing, but buy in large guys that go over.

Generally, you don't talk to them. And it's not, it's just because you're busy. So yeah, I knew a couple guys, but I didn't talk to a lot of stuff. And then, yeah, when I went over and training, I mean, dude, I think again, it was rough, but at a great time, I mean, I fucking learned to shit on. It was, I was so happy to be the student again. You know, it was great to be by far the least competent person in the room. And just so, just as it happened, so I went through in 2003.

So, the, to be an instructor for that takes about, usually it's about a decade. I mean, yes, you know, not eight, you know, whatever. And for whatever reason, just by chance, I would say 65 to 70 percent, disproportionately high was a small event. 93 2003 again why I mean because that was only one squadron but yeah law to small event. And at this time 2003 there was you know we hadn't started our rack so there was no real CQB, I mean, there was very little CQB done to that point in Afghanistan. So having, you know, some oil veterans was,

I learned a lot. It was very interesting. For those who listen, they don't know what CQB is, that's clear in a house. Yeah. When you see a team of guys in our house and flow through that CKB. And then, you know, that was,

I mean, that was, it's funny, because you go through that course, and then you do a couple other things afterwards. And, you know, and then you get assigned, you know, to a team. And you're like, you think you're cool. You think you're good. And then you get to a team and you're like,

I suck again. You know, everything they do is a thousand times faster than you were doing it at your fastest. And you're just like, shit. And I think that's cool. Like you get to where you think you're good and then you go and you're like, nope, I suck again. It was great because then you have to get to where you think you're good and then you go and you're like, nope, I suck again.

It was great because then you have to get to that level. And you know, it's, to me, it's just a constant process of being uncomfortable and being the worst guy in the room, you know, which partly means you're a shitbag, but also partly means that you're trying to learn and surround yourself with really good people. And I learned from a lot of very solid, you know, between leaders and just people I work with. So, um, yeah, it was, it was a great experience. And then I did my first deployment there. Where was that to? Fallujah. 2000. Fallujah. Yeah. Fallujah, 2004. I mean, that shit was like World War II.

Like, it's not comparable to it. Did you know you were going to Fallujah? Yeah, yeah. Early on. Uh, maybe a month before we went on, I don't know exactly. Uh, no, maybe it was like only two weeks. What was happening in theater at that time?

Have we taken Fallujah? No, so at that time, at that time, this is, I forget the month, but relatively early 2004, this is after this is like maybe two or three months after the Black Water incident in Fallujah. So at the time, Fallujah was surrounded by the Marine Corps. The blackwater incident that you're talking about for the audience is when they were empty contractors, they pulled them out of the vehicle and hung them up, stripped them down, burned them, and hung them upside down, naked from a bridge.

Correct. Yeah, that was maybe three months prior, but around that time. So at that time, Felicia was surrounded by, well, several, was it divisions? I forget my Marine Corps structure, but they were surrounded. Little the entire city was surrounded. But that was interesting. I mean, it was, you know, just crazy. Next time, I'll do it. Well, I mean, it was just, I mean, operationally, there wasn't, what were you guys doing?

So we were there to essentially develop targets and assist. So we ended up assisting the Marine Corps several times. There's a couple. Times Marine units got in trouble. And like, I mean, just one as an example was, they were taking fire and they couldn't get the building anyways and we had a so-flam. So we ended up going there and calling in cash. But yeah, I mean, you're calling cash in the city. Forget F18s, dropping bomb.

I mean, it was like, you know, a way in the, you know, turning like, no, I mean, I mean, put it this way. I'm sure you know, like, you couldn't have marked my teens and back dead. Influsia, like dudes would be dumping entire cans of Mark 19 rounds. I mean, it was just, if you saw someone, you could shoot him. Mark 19, for those that don't know, is a grenade launcher.

An automatic grenade launcher. Not automatic grenade launcher. A can of what, 50 mic miters, what, 50 rounds? 50 grenades. I think it's 32, I can't remember. There are two. There's two sizes of cans, I forget the larger one, but yeah, the rules of engagement,

if you saw someone, you could shoot him, like, saw him. I mean, you know, just, it was like, I mean, at night, you know, the spectre was cleared hot, and it would just, we'd watch it, and it would just circle and just hammer, like all night long.

And then it would go off station when it was a Winchester or another one would come on and just tricking, keep up all night, all night. The Biafluja, you know, there was some, you couldn't go in. I mean, that wasn't possible. So everything was done around the outside, because like one rain unit pushed in,

I think like a hundred yards. And it was so... It was so bad tanks had to... Abrams had to come get them out. I mean, it was that intense. I know who that was. He was in here for that interview. Which one?

His name's Cody Alford. He talks about, was he a Marine? Yup, he talks about work inside by side with you guys. Okay, so that, I was there. Who he's directly referring to, though, is probably my buddy who's the medic that saved while he almost saved a guy. He saved him and then he saved him and then he dumped him off and they pushed IVs and blew out all the clotting that he had

debunked. I know, it's a shitty story. He said that he said that you guys were telling them that you had never seen shit like this before. Oh, that was going down over there. That was like when those guys, I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I assume from what I was told that it was what small he was like, I, I assume I don't, I don't know. But yeah, I mean, they got hit hard, like hard, hard, that daybreak, you know, um, I mean, mortars, RPGs, PK and I'm see, I mean, it was, it was, it was big. Um, and, but yeah, I mean, that was, that was again, just that fucking Abrams shooting into the city. Yeah. Like the main gun. That's crazy.

It was just insane. And again, I, so what were you guys just, Roman, the battle-hilled pretty much? Just killing bad guys. I was a very specific target set that you were after. Because it seems that that's not true to the insert a team. While we were trying to develop targets for ourselves, but you couldn't fly there. You could not drive in,

and you could not insert a helicopter. Well, how the hell were you guys going to develop targets for yourself? Well, that's what we were, I mean, we didn't know that until we started to go through the process, but that was the intent with developed targets. And then, you know, spending the time there is like, I don't know, I don't know, it's not, nothing we could do. I said in on the invasion briefings and all that, I met Jerome Attis, who was a legend of N,

you know, let alone later. And then we're there for the big gun trade-in to where they traded in like Cruc serve weapons, I forget what they got, but they turned in. Basically, they de-exed their old, non-working stuff, just hilarious shit, you know. But, yes, I mean, we just ended up doing a lot of stuff with the Marine Corps.

Just, you know, I mean, we hit targets with the Marine Corps. So I've learned a lot about the Marine Corps just working with them, uh, that deployment. What was your impression of them? Uh, in short, Marines are solid dudes to get fucked. Like, are they good at what they do? Yes, but they're always doing it without the proper resources. It's almost like their command is like, we'll show you how shitty of conditions our Marines can operate in. That's how I felt about it. You know, that's a fucking shame. That's how I felt, you know, and I was just like,

like, I'll tell you right now, I walked out of the invasion, breathing. I fucking got up and walked out. That was pissed. I was fucking pissed. What were you pissed about? What specific plan? I listened to the plan and I was fucking pissed. What were you pissed about? What specifically? Plan.

I listened to the plan and I was just like, and dude, I was, I mean, what were you pissed about though? Were you pissed that we were sending in 18-year-old kids into a, no, I was in Killzone, were you pissed that they didn't have the resources they need to accomplish the mission? I was mission pissed at how stupid the plan was.

I was pissed that in the plan was casualties in the plan. We're gonna lose some guys here. I'm gonna lose some guys here. No, redo your plan, your plan's shit. I just did, I was, I mean, I was young. I was like 20, I made selection, I was like 25, which was very, very young at that time. Like that, like, very unusual at that time.

My OTC class graduated to enlisted operators. That's it, that's it. Me and another dude around the same age, my OTC class graduated two enlisted operators. That's it. That's it. Me and another dude around the same age, who's just got out. Actually, but. Two, that entire selection OTC for two fucking guys. Wow.

Yeah. Let's say I had something. And so, I saw, you know, I was young, full of piss and vinegar, you know, I just, it just, it just, in the middle of a fuck two wars, and they like snatched up two guys. That shit's unheard of. Uh, I've never, I've heard that from any other unit. And the reason I went at the beginning of our act is I was like, we're not going to our act. I was like, no.

We're gonna have Afghanistan still, and I'm not going anywhere. So I was like committed, and then when it started happening, I was like, well, fine, I was wrong about that. But, just listening to the marine officers, how he talked about, and listed in reans, just fucking piss me off.

Damn. Fucking piss me off. And I was just, it just, well, that's another thing that came out in that episode too, with Cody, is all of that leadership over there and how shit it is and how it became more shit is time went on. Yeah, I mean, I put it this way. I was not senior enough in the unit to get up and walk out of that meeting.

My team leader was not happy about it, but I just, it was either I walked out or I would have said something. Because I mean, should I have been more political? Absolutely, but I just couldn't, it was the dumbest fucking plan I've ever heard. Well, maybe not the dumbest point I've ever heard, but I mean, it was... It was just... You're not used to seeing conventional planning. Yeah, yeah, maybe you're right. Um...

Plus, I knew what was there, you know? Yeah. That pissed me off. And then... they... put off the invasion. So they were supposed to invade when we were there. And then they didn't forget why. And then they ended up taking the city,

I think six-ish months later, I can't remember. And lost, I to say 50 Marines. You know? It's the one thing I've learned on a related side note. As everyone says like DFQ, don't fucking quit, never quit, don't ever fucking quit. And that works to a point. Example, let's say there's five bus. And sergeant's like, charge that machine gun nest and I charge it. And I got cut down. Second guy, charge that machine gun nest, charge it, gets cut down. Third guy, charge it, gets cut down. Now the fourth guy, he could DFQ that one and charge it like everyone else because I'm not a quitter. Or maybe, just maybe. We're doing it the wrong way. If you're so focused on never fucking quitting, dude, when we get out, we fuck up so many things

because we're so don't quit focused that we don't realize that we're doing it the stupid way. And if you reassess and try and figure out a better way, and then do it that way, is that quitting? No. And that's one thing I realized being out is how many things I did just to do it the hard way, almost for the hard way sake. Because I'm not a pussy. I'm fucking do it the hard way. Fuck you.

Watch this. And then over time, it's like, it's probably a better way to do this. It's probably a better way to do this. And I think that's a big lesson I learned is by and large, there's always a smarter way. And I definitely agree with that. As I'm older and out longer, the more I realize that true skill is in figuring out the most efficient and easiest way to accomplish anything. Don't quit, you know. It's almost a, it's almost an indoctrination point, you know?

Like if you think what the military used to be, which is a bunch of fucking morons online, marching on an open field to face each other, and shoot each other without anything like, you know, don't fucking quit. Like, hold the line. It's the same mentality. Yep. Yep. Well, let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll finish up your, uh, your

R.I.R.C. deployment. All right. Next, on the show on Ryan's show. And this is one of the most dangerous things I've ever done. So everyone else was in Baghdad. We were in Flushing. And this was flayed out that way. And this was flayed out that way.

And it was broken in eight places. And it was before, because the medic was treating the guys that were shot on the front side and when he finally got before he got to me it occurred to me that I might die. Do you keep in touch with these guys? You were on that up with? There's probably a reason I haven't asked you to do this podcast. There's probably the reason that keeping contact really will be available. You know, it's a place where no one's from. Most people move there from somewhere else, do their thing, and then leave.

You know, it's a very transient city for people that are kind of unsure maybe of their direction. And I think that was me. The Bullwork Podcast focuses on political analysis and reporting without partisan loyalties. Real sense of déjà vu sprinkled on our PTSD. So things are going well, I guess. Every Monday through Friday, Charlie Sykes speaks with guests about the latest stories from Inside Washington and around the world. You document in a very compelling way.

All of the positive things have come out of this, but it also feels like we have this massive hangover. No shouting or grandstanding. Principles over partisanship. The Bullwalk Podcast. Wherever you listen. no shouting or grandstanding. Principles over partisanship.

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