Shawn Ryan Show - #70 Brandon Fugal - Owner of the Mysterious Skinwalker Ranch Reveals UAP/UFO Encounters

Episode Date: August 14, 2023

Brandon Fugal is the owner and proprietor of Skinwalker Ranch. Initially, Brandon's intention was to dispel the rumors and mystique surrounding Skinwalker Ranch. However, a meeting with an Area 51 specialist on the property led to a series of unexplained and peculiar phenomena. This encounter profoundly impacted him and fueled his determination to pursue the truths concealed within the ranch. During this episode, we learn about Brandon's upbringing, explore how he built a prosperous career in commercial real estate, and delve into his acquisition of the infamous Skinwalker Ranch from Aerospace billionaire, Robert Bigelow. Brandon has allocated millions of dollars to support research endeavors at the ranch, unraveling anomalies along the way. True to his character, he has never personally profited from these exploits, opting instead to reinvest proceeds into the project and charitable causes. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://lairdsuperfood.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://1stphorm.com/srs https://blackbuffalo.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://mindbloom.com/srs - USE CODE "SRS" https://goldco.com/ryan | 855-336-0607 #goldcopartner https://bubsnatruals.com - USE CODE "SHAWN" Guest Links: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/brandonfugal Skinwalker Ranch Website - https://skinwalker-ranch.com Skinwalker Ranch Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/skinwalker_ranch Charity - https://saprea.org Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, you are probably wondering why I am smiling from ear to ear right now, and I'm about to tell you. My next guest has taken me two years just to make contact with. Thanks to his brother and his beautiful wife, Kristen. We have finally got him in SRS Studio for an in-person interview. And it's a phenomenal interview. It's packed full of information and inspiration. He grew up in a blue collar family in Utah, became a real estate mogul at a very young age, which eventually led to the purchase of a very famous ranch

outside Assault Lake City that all of us know as the Skinwalker Ranch. Lots of anomalies and phenomenon's happen out there. A ton of UFO activity and unexplainable, at least at this moment in time, phenomenon's. It's one of my favorite interviews of all time. Ladies and gentlemen, if you like the show, please like, comment, and subscribe. Go to Spotify and Apple Podcast, leave us a review, and we see a lot of you taking our content,

turn it into your own content. We made it easy for you. Go in the description. There is a link below full of raw reels that you can edit. Put on your channel, put on your IG, your TikTok, wherever you want, monetize it, make money. All we ask is that you give the Sean Ryan show, the credit that it deserves. Other than that, do whatever you like with it. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, please welcome my new friend, Mr. Brandon Fugel, to the Sean Ryan Show.

Brandon Fugel, welcome to the show. It's good to be here. It's a privilege to be with you. It's an honor to have you sitting across from me. We have been trying to get you in here for over a year, I think, ever since I first heard about skin walker ranch and it's finally come to fruition. I can't believe you're sitting here. I've been just ecstatic about interviewing you for a long time. So thank you for coming. It's an honor and I'm glad we can make the time. I'm anxious to answer any questions and dive into the big picture relative to the investigation and all of the events leading up to what has driven us to launch what I believe to be the most important frontier science

effort of its kind in the country. It's incredible. I've wanted to tap into the UFO, UAP, phenomenon type, content, subject, whatever you want to call it for a long time. And you and your team, or anybody on your team was my number one choice because I look at all these people out that are putting content out or putting information out disclosure and stuff. And you're the only organization that really just backs it with real science, real experiments, and it's documented, and this is a subject that, I mean, it's a controversial subject, and it's hard to, it can be hard to wrap your head around this stuff.

And so the way that you guys are bringing this stuff to the forefront and the way you're doing it with real science and scientists and experiments is it's fascinating. It is fascinating stuff. They're scary topics. I mean a lot of these these topics are unsettling. A lot of people are understandably uncomfortable being faced with the reality. Yeah, that these things are happening in our air space, happening in our own backyards, and to have scientific rigor and discipline, and a multidisciplinary team focused on gathering the data and documenting the reality of the phenomena. documenting the reality of the phenomena.

In many cases, for the first time, is it's an honor, but it's a sobering privilege. And I think we're just getting warmed up. I think so too. Let me give you a quick introduction here. So, Chairman of Collier's International Commercial Real Estate, Mongol Investor, entrepreneur, visionary husband father Boy Scout in the owner of the infamous skim walker ranch. Now skim walker ranch is the most

Googled location in the entire world or at least the country. It's the number one most Google landmark in the United States. That's according to travel and leisure and Google. That is crazy. More UAP, UFO sighting, phenomenon is happening there than as far as I know than anywhere else on the planet. For whatever reason, we're seeing the highest level of, or the highest frequency of UFO sightings and paranormal activity centered in this area.

For whatever reason, it has been a hotbed, and this has been going on for decades, if not millennia. And we're fortunate to be picking up the baton and carrying forward and I sophisticated and I think a more aggressive fashion. But these things have been going on for some time, and we're finally bringing it to the public's attention and I think the most dynamic way and transparent way. You're doing a hell of a job. And you're also, it turned into a TV series,

two different TV series. Skinwalker Ranch is number one on pretty much every distribution channel that it's on. And but I want to talk to you after dinner last night, there's a lot of layers to peel back with you. So I'd like to, I'd actually like to get a full-life story if you're, you bet. Okay. With the event, start in childhood. I'd actually like to get a full-life story if you're... You bet? Okay, with Daven. Start in childhood. Ask me anything.

All right, I'll take you up on that, but everybody starts off with a gift on the show. Oh, that one's. I got you a couple. Got you a couple gifts. Oh, wow. What do we have here? Hey, gummy bears. So those are vigilance elite gummy bears.

Great. Legal and all 50 states. We love treats. Oh, zingers. And then one of my all American favorite snacks, especially as we're coming back from other countries, I'm always really relieved to find that we have our freedom of choice when it comes to junk food. Your wife, Dime Jowd, Chris, Dime Jowd. Oh, this is great. Said you have an addiction to zingers. I love it. And of course, thank you for

arming me with my diet mountain dew. I drink about 100 to 200 ounces of this stuff a day. And if you look at the ingredients, do you know what the first two ingredients and diet mountain dew are? I don't. Let me have you read the first two ingredients if you can. First two ingredients. Carbonated water and concentrated orange juice. Water and orange juice. It's part of a healthy lifestyle, Sean. It's a... You're fruit group.

Yeah, there you go. It's fuel. It's my form of jet fuel for the day. But no, thank you so much. You're welcome. We will greatly appreciate the gummy bears and the singers. And you know, there'll be some some typical lonely nights late at the office where I'll probably be breaking these out. Perfect. And then after dinner last night, I know you're a sentimental guy and

you have a lot of artifacts and stuff. And so after talking to you, and your wife, Christian, Kristen, whose grandpa was a, was a UDT Navy seal in World War II, and your grandpa, both your grandpa's were in World War II. I wanted to give you this. So this is... Oh, underwater demolition patch. Oh, thank you so much. From back on the day. We're in the beginning of Frogman, and this is a naval special war for the manpower. Wow. So, thank you so much.

Yeah, you're welcome. Well, service is an important thing in our family, and I grew up understanding the importance of serving our country, and my grandfather's were incredible examples. And my wife's grandfather was really a trailblazer with the predecessor to the Navy Seals. It was the beginning. Yeah, very cool. And this means a lot.

This will have a cherished place in our collection. As you mentioned, I love artifacts from history. You know, those tangible pieces that not only tell our story, but I think illustrate where we've come from and hopefully provide a bit of a reminder or a road map as to where we're going. Yeah, you know, that's important stuff. They're not teaching it anymore. And they seem to be we're going. Yeah, you know, that's important stuff. They're not teaching it anymore.

And it seemed to be a racing history. I have a record pace. And so it's stuff like this, you know, and stuff that's in the studio and stuff that you have. I mean, it's important to pass down to the next generations that are coming up so they know where the hell we came from. Yeah, we can never forget. But, but let's get to you.

So where did you grow up? Pleasant Grove, Utah. I'm fifth generation. Pleasant Grove, Utah. My ancestors came from Scandinavia, from Denmark and emigrated in the 1860s. They were early converts to the Mormon church, the church of Jesus Christ, the Latter-day Saints,

and settled in this small community at the base of Mount Timpanogas, which is this incredible mountain backdrop in Utah. And it lived in a small dugout dwelling until they built both their early home and a blacksmith shop that still stands to this day. I'm very fortunate to have some incredible ancestors that have created a legacy in our community and serve as examples.

How was your family life growing up? Great. I grew up as a child of the 80s. I just turned 50. So, as a child of the 80s, my parents raised us on a steady diet of Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, Ridley Scott, James Cameron. I was a huge fan of everything from night writer to battle star galactica to star wars to the A-Team.

You name it. The pop culture of the period was in hyperdrive and was alive and well in the Fugel household. But I have three brothers. All boys, my poor mother, was outnumbered. And she actually flew in with us, accompanied us on this journey. Oh, really? Yeah, so she's in Nashville with my brothers doing some sight

seeing, but very fortunate to have the greatest parents in the world. I hit the lottery, won the lottery when it came to my parents and grandparents, and the incredible individuals that they are in the family. My greatest mentor in life was my father, who unfortunately passed away just under two years ago. Much younger than he should have passed, but he was an incredible example to me. And I was raised in this small community that I continue to live in with my wife. We intend to die there. So you still live in the same place? I've lived almost my entire life in this small community of Pleasant Grove, Utah

that I love. Been going to the same gas station, convenient store since I was a little boy. We participate in the same community gatherings and rituals every year and it's been very fortunate. Not a lot of people like that left with roots like that where they grew up.

Yeah, it's small town, USA at its best. What kind of stuff for you? What kind of hobbies did you have when you were growing up? You know, growing up, me and my friends were really close. I had a very close knit group of friends. And we stay close to this day. In fact, every year, I pulled together 10 to 12 of my best friends from my youth that I've been friends with since elementary school.

We were involved in scouting. In fact, most of us were eagle scouts and had that wonderful experience. We were involved in martial arts, karate, grew up not only on a steady diet of sci-fi and adventure, but also martial arts. Chuck Norris was a hero of mine. And me and my friends would spend weekends, sleepovers, digesting every ninja and martial arts-oriented movie that you can imagine. And we were involved with role-playing, with fantasy, we played Dungeons and Dragons and other role-playing games in our youth that I think had an impact not only on the way we looked at the world, but it forged relationships that stay intact to this day.

I found the older I get, the most important things that we have in this world are not possessions, their relationships and experiences. And I've been blessed with an abundance relative to the relationships and experiences. I've had the same best friends since 5th grade. Wow. We talk every week, we're business partners. In fact, he's been on the show. He's been on the docu-series as a consulting oncologist radiologist as an expert.

Oh, no kidding. Dr. Christopher Lee. So we've been best friends since fifth grade. We got our Eagle scouts together. We went on our Mormon missions about the same time. He went to Germany, speaks fluent German to this day. I went to Hawaii of all places, learned how to speak some inappropriate tongue-in. But I've been really fortunate. We were raised, I think, in an ideal environment, as part of the Reagan era.

in an ideal environment as part of the Reagan era, you know, George Bush senior that it was, it was the end of the Cold War. You know, we grew up as kids, terrified of the potential of war, and you grew up on Rocky IV, and read Don, understanding the importance of freedom and our way of life. And we saw the fall of the Berlin Wall occur.

I think that occurred during my senior year, where we saw a lot of remarkable things occur that has blessed our world and ushered in a new era. I want to tell you about this business venture I've been on for about the past seven eight months, and it's finally come to fruition. I've been hellbent on finding the cleanest functional mushroom supplement on the planet, and that all kind of stemmed from the psychedelic treatment I did. Came out of it, got a ton of benefits, haven't had a drop of alcohol in almost two years. I'm more in the moment with my family. And that led me down researching the benefits

of just everyday functional mushrooms. And I started taking some supplements, I found some coffee replacements, I even wrapped a brand. And, you know, it got to the point where I just wanted the finest ingredients available, no matter where they come from. And it got to this point where I was just going to start my own brand.

And so we started going to trade shows and looking for the finest ingredients and doing that I ran into this guy, maybe you've heard of him, his name's Laird Hamilton and his wife Gabby Reese and they have an entire line of supplements with all the finest ingredients and we got to talk and it turns out they have the perfect functional mushroom supplement it's actually called performance mushrooms and this has everything. It's USDA organic, it's got chaga, cordriceps, lion's mane, mea toki. This stuff is amazing for energy balance, for cognition. Look,

just being honest, see a lot of people taking care of their bodies. This is the product guys. And so we got to talking and our values seemed very lined. We're both into the functional mushrooms. And after a lot of back and forth, I am now a shareholder in the company. I have a small amount of ownership and I'm just, look, I'm just really proud to be repping and be a part of the company that's making the best functional mushroom supplement on the planet. You can get this stuff at layeredsuperfoods.com. You can use the promo code SRS that'll get you 20% off these performance mushrooms or

anything in the store. They got a ton of good stuff. Once again, that's layeredsuperfoods.com. Use the promo code SRS that gets you 20% off. You guys are going to love this stuff. I guarantee it. You seem to have come from a long line of a patriotic family. And in my research, I read that one of the things that your old man used to say to you, damn, they're every day, is, what did you do today to make

your country better? Yeah. Have you done any good in the world today? On an almost daily basis, my father would reach out to me and ask, if you've done any good, have you done any good in the world today, What age did that start? From the time I was a teenager and it became even more frequent as I grew older and built my own family and went through my own challenges and triumphs. My father's words and amy admonition stay with me every day. And he had an incredible father. My grandfather was a decorated bomber pilot, World War II, flew a corsair and was

fortunate to be selected to fly over Tokyo Bay when the Japanese surrendered. And it was a pivotal moment in the Pacific theater during the war and hearing his stories and seeing his example helped, I think, crystallize those things that are most important, those core principles that differentiate our way of life, you know, our people. How did that kind of form you into who you are today? I mean, you, so I did a lot of research on you. I've seen some people giving you a flax

saying that things have been handed to you, thinking that you came from a family, from a very wealthy family, which is a bunch of bullshit. From what I understand. Yeah, my father drove a brown beat up Pinto when I was in junior high, graduated to a beat up astro van when I was in high school. I haven't taken one penny from my parents. I was very fortunate. I haven't taken one penny from my parents.

I was very fortunate, I was able to receive that, which was most important, which was an incredible bringing in examples, but my father's success didn't really occur until I was an adult and had already established myself in commercial real estate. It's important to note that my father and I were both EY entrepreneurs of the year for the Western region for completely different businesses. Are you serious? That's amazing.

I think that still sets us apart. In 1920, my great-grandfather started a construction company that became really one of the largest utility construction firms in the country, but it wasn't without great sacrifice. I mean, during the 80s, they could barely keep the doors open. They were struggling considerably into my father and his brother, Guy, ended up making some critical bets and risks on fiber optic technology, on devising methods to be able to install long-haul fiber optics underground, and really took the utility construction business into the future. So while it is true that our family has been very blessed, I didn't grow up with any privileged

group in the same 1800 square foot house and it was fortunate to be blessed with a work ethic. My dad expected that we would work construction as teenagers. And so every year I was shipped out of town to work on construction crews with a shovel in hand. And it was literally a ditch digger for years, but it taught me not only the value of hard work and how to work long 12 to 16-hour days, but also to appreciate people from other backgrounds, from other walks of life. You experience all sorts in the construction industry and to be able to develop respect for your peers,

even if they've chosen different paths and have different approaches to life was important. And being part of a team, being part of a crew that is focused on a very complex set of requirements was something that I enjoyed being part of as a teenager working heavy construction out in the field. And it was to everyone's surprise at 18 that I chose to not pursue a career in the family business in construction, but to forge a path in commercial real estate. What prompted that? What got you interested in commercial real estate as an 18 year old kid?

Well, in junior high at age 13, I became obsessed with business, with who the captains of industry were. I read a book by Lee Iacoka. Iacoka, the great autobiography of the automotive icon, who was really the father of the American Mustang, the Ford Mustang, and led Ford into great expansion. And we can thank him for that. We can also curse him for the Chrysler Minivan. And because he ended up bringing forward the Minivan and turning around Chrysler and one of the great

automotive business epics of our age. But hearing his story and then moving into high school and having an interest in business, not just who the power players were, but how did they get in the positions of influence that they inhabited. By the time I was a junior and senior in high school, I had my own subscriptions to the Wall Street Journal and Business Week. As I was nearing the tail end of my senior year in high school as student body president, I was very focused on jumping into a career and selecting a career path that would afford me the opportunity to work with the captains of industry.

The very people that I was reading about in these journals, in the newspapers newspapers and the magazines that were leading business and changing the landscape of our world. And through a comprehensive research effort during my senior year in high school, as I was turning 18 years old, I identified commercial real estate as being the ideal career path that would potentially afford me that opportunity to work with the captains of industry. Because if you think about it, if you're in business, you have to have a real estate strategy. Everyone in business, regardless of what business for the most part has to at some point have a real estate strategy. And unlike the law or banking or other disciplines, I was able to quickly get licensed.

Yeah, at age 18, I was able to complete all of the schooling I was able to complete all of the schooling quickly and take the test, the four-hour test, and obtain my license to focus on commercial real estate. And it was a surprise to everyone. My own parents thought that it was an unusual, perhaps, foolish path because my father wasn't in the real estate business, but I saw it as an opportunity to be involved with the changing landscape of the communities surrounding us and the rest is history. So I started off in business at a very young age at 18. It sold my first office park when I was 19 years old. And I built a proprietary database as a teenager tracking all of the inventory and the power

players in the market. I would spend hours every day cataloging every building from one end of the market to the other and the companies that occupied spaces in those buildings and who the CEOs, CFOs were, how much square footage they occupied when their leases were up to they have an interest in buying in the future. What were their plans for growth? What made them tick? And I built that database as really a crystal ball that would give me visibility into who would be making moves in the future, who were the most likely companies and entrepreneurs that would be changing the landscape of the

business community both figuratively and quite literally. You were doing that at 19 years old? 18, 18 and 19 and it supercharged me. Now I took a break at 19 after spending about 15 months in commercial real estate, I elected to go on a mission for my church, for the Church of Jesus Christ, the Latter-day Saints, and served for two years in Hawaii. But I kept my license active when I entered the mission field, and a lot of the transactions that I had teed up that were in process or progress. Before my mission, thankfully came to fruition when I was but a greenie, a young missionary at age 19, and it was funny, I quickly obtained a brick phone when I entered the mission field, which was very unusual.

This was 1992, so I'm dating myself here and kept in touch periodically with my office back in Salt Lake to make sure that my deals were progressing. It was funny. I bought my first Armani suit as a Mormon missionary on a bike. I bought it from the Italian menswear store at Kahala Mall, which was kind of the posh mall right outside of Honolulu at the time. And it was a fun reward, I guess, to treat myself to that after selling some buildings and having those deals come to fruition. So even though I was focused on my mission and my missionary service, I was fortunate to see transactions close for a period of time that I had

placed under contract before leaving for Hawaii, which was a non-likely mission call for me. I mean, most of my friends were going to foreign lands, I mean, whether it be Chile or Germany or other places, and to get a call to Hawaii was quite a surprise for me. So it sounds like there was somewhat of a life-changing experience. Change my entire life every day of my life has been influenced by that two-year mission experience that I had. The relationships forged the lessons learned during that period of time. I mean, that's such a formative time in anyone's life. In any young person's life, you think of what happens between ages 18 or 19 and 21. And that's a period of time where you're making decisions as to who you are and how you

view the world and what kind of person you are going to be. And to be in a position where I was focused on Jesus Christ and teaching people the gospel of Jesus Christ and even just performing service, just helping people. At the time, the islands were hit by Hurricane Iniki. There was a huge hurricane that came in and destroyed a lot of the communities. That was a heck of a way to start my mission. We had power lines down entire living spaces that were flooded as a result, a lot of destruction, and for a period of weeks, we didn't really

teach anyone about Jesus Christ. All we cared about was helping people clean up the disaster and the mess. And that service experience was really important. It was, I think, Christianity at its best to see neighbors coming together, to see communities working together in the face of destruction, in the face of this natural disaster that had taken place and to be able to work to help people dig out of that. With no thought of compensation, with no thought of compensation. I mean, we're just there to help. We're there as missionaries without any money. And not looking for any compensation

and just wanting to roll our sleeves up and help. And that was an important experience for me. The whole experience with Hurricane Iniki at the beginning of my mission really set the right tone for the rest of my experience. And I had a companion at the time. He was my senior companion and my trainer. His name was Brian Arnold. Many people know him as a dragon.

He's my head of security. He was down there with you. So the relationship built with Brian Arnold, otherwise known as dragon at Skinwalker Ranch, as my head of security has been a relationship I've had since my mission. He was my senior companion. That's incredible.

And we've been dear friends ever since. It didn't start off that way. We hated each other. What is that? The first several weeks of my mission. We were just at each other's throats. I mean, when you're young man and you're thrown into a small little apartment together, I mean, when you're young man and you're thrown into a small little apartment together, you come from different backgrounds and in different places, emotionally, it can be a different experience. And at first, we really didn't see eye to eye and didn't get along. But after a couple of weeks and a fist fight where we broke some furniture,

we found common ground and became dear friends and had some very special experiences serving, teaching people and really learning a lot about ourselves and so that friendship has been enduring and has been an important part of my life. And so when I bought the ranch, when I acquired Skinwalker Ranch secretly, I needed someone that I could trust that would help run security as we were bringing in dignitaries and scientists and guests to engage with the investigation. And he, you know, Dragon had the background as an expert marksman, licensed security specialist with the state of Utah Utah and someone who really loves the outdoors

The environment seemed to be a perfect fit for him plus he has that that look on his face all the time I mean people refer to that look as as you know kind of a a bitch face look, but he's always had that demeanor. He's always had that sour look on his face, which I felt was perfect for someone who would be running security. Yeah, yeah, I could see it. So, when you got back from Hawaii, were you an agent broker? Did you own agent broker?

Did you own the buildings? No, I broke her. I broke her. Yeah, I was merely acting as a broker, bringing together landlords and tenants, buyers and sellers, and facilitating transactions. I think this stuff's fascinating because in today's world, you just hear victimization. You know, it's, I can't make it because of this and I can't do it because of this

and these people are getting in my way and this group's keeping me down and so to have somebody like you and here who came from nothing and built everything you have through our college fund. There was no college fund. There was no college fund. It was either we had to go work construction or have a scholarship, have grades

that would allow us to have a scholarship. I was fortunate to have a leadership scholarship to what is now Utah Valley University, which is the largest institution in the state. But nothing was just handed to me. I mean, those things had to be earned. And there was sacrifice required. I made $500 my entire first year of working full time

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making an investment decision. I starved to death trying to jump in the commercial real estate business. The sales cycle involved was long and arduous. But also the learning curve and being able to build a platform. To build a career, it takes years. And it's years of sacrifice, years of starvation. And I think all too often people underestimate what kind of sacrifice is required in order to truly succeed.

In order to get extraordinary results, you have to be willing to put forth the extraordinary effort required. People ask me all the time, well, what is the secret to success? And I think the secret to success in many respects is being willing to do that, which most people aren't willing to do. It's sacrifice. It's being willing to persevere in the face of adversity. And business is no different than the military or Business is no different than the military or any other path. I mean, it requires sacrifice, persistence, and discipline in order to succeed. And at least in my world, there is no easy deal.

There is no easy deal. There's no easy path. And you learn how to sidestep a few landmines and learn how to efficiently navigate transactions as you grow and mature. But it's really not any easier today than it was decades ago. I just have a little bit better arsenal to deploy and service to getting results. It would age, did you start acquiring your portfolio of real estate? My 20s. So, I quickly accelerated my success, my control of the commercial real estate market in Utah. By the time I was 25, I had more office building listings. It was representing more buildings than anyone, I believe at the time.

I had the opportunity to launch what was Colddle banker commercial. Colddle banker commercial was one of the oldest, if not the oldest, commercial real estate brand in the United States. And there had been an opportunity at that time to reintroduce the CBC brand and platform to the market. And so I was fortunate to co-found the Colbert banker commercial operation in Utah at age 25. And quickly grow it into the largest commercial real estate firm in the Intermountain West. It was an incredible opportunity to be

able to leverage the proprietary database, the data-driven approach that had differentiated me early in my career to really develop a large commercial real estate firm that transformed the market and still continues to lead the Intermountain West under calliers. But it wasn't until my 20s that I finally was able to have the momentum to be able to take some ownership and diversify in that regard. And I'm very fortunate in that I haven't had to give up my role as a trusted advisor and broker while diversifying and having equity and owning real estate. I've been able to have the best of all worlds in my career, thankfully. Some of the developments that I've seen that you've developed are, I mean, it's some beautiful architecture.

Yeah, the largest office parks in really the Inter-Mountain West, largest mixed-use centers that have changed the skylines of the community. And I have to tell you, that is the greatest rush to see a tangible manifestation of my labor. To be able to see the impact of my work manifest in the work spaces, in the shopping malls and the places that are providing employment and the economic development vehicle

for our communities to thrive is a real privilege. Do you have a favorite piece? The most unique piece of my portfolio is obviously Skinwalker Ranch. The most scientifically studied paranormal hotspot on the planet. We'll get to that in a few minutes. We will.

I am currently master planning over 1200 acres on the North Shore of Oahu in Hawaii, where I serve my mission. In fact, it's an incredible agricultural project that is providing the opportunity to return private ownership to the community of these five to 20 acre farm lots that have incredible ocean views and the ability to create a true sustainable community. But in Utah, as far as the office parks and commercial centers, I have a project called Thanksgiving Park that is in the heart of what we now call Silicon slopes.

Almost a million square feet of class A office space that has been an important part of my career putting that project together at its inception all the way through to success and conclusion has been a great privilege. But a number of other incredible projects, Falcon Hill, which is, I think, the finest aerospace research park in the country at Hill Air Force Base is a noteworthy project that I've had the privilege of being involved in since the beginning that that will continue to grow and expand. But so many mixed-use projects, I currently represent projects in 28 municipalities.

Oh wow, several hundred properties that I currently have the privilege of representing coupled with maintaining my position as chairman and co-owner of Call of Year's International's Intermountain operation. Call of Year's who I merged with five years ago is one of the big three global commercial real estate service providers with 65 offices, excuse me,

with over 500 offices in 65 countries and 17,000 professionals. Calliers is truly a global company and to merge my my previous firm, Colblebanker commercial with calliers propelled us to another level and has been an exciting evolutionary step in my career. And in tandem with that, to have some of these other more unconventional projects that I've been focusing on, his made life. Very interesting. Oh, but let's go back to Hawaii, the Dole Plantation.

What is going on with the Dole Plantation? Well, Dole is in Dole Fruit. Yeah, so Dole Foods, who started farming the property in Hawaii back in the mid-1800s, has moved a lot of their farming operations to third world countries. As a result, has been willing to sell their key pieces of property in Hawaii. And I fortunately, not only being familiar with that area, is having lived there for several years and served there as a missionary, saw an opportunity to acquire the property,

bring in partners to complete a master plan, and to preserve the cultural and the agricultural focus and history of that area. I mean the midst of this property there is a 350 to 400 acre canyon ranch that has remained unseen by the general public. It's it has been a secure part of the overall assemblage and is right out of Jurassic Park or Avatar. It's a beautiful beautiful paradise that that we look forward to introducing the public to in the future. What do you what are you envision Well, right now we're focusing on the

the agricultural mission and returning private ownership to the local community. And as such, we've been selling five to 20 acre lots for these farmers to be able to create a sustainable experience. That's amazing. To reclaim the land, it has been a lot of fun. All of this property for the most part is ocean view.

So it looks out over the entire North Shore and it's just an incredible piece of property and a fun project to work on, in tandem with Skinwalker Ranch and also leading the largest office developments in the Interment and West. I've had a lot going on. I've had my hands full. It sounds like it.

I feel like I'm living about 10 lifetimes at once currently, but it's a great privilege. It's a high class first world problem as my dad would always. Hey, you know, I think these stories are kind of like what I was talking about just a couple of minutes ago. I think they're extremely important because it's showing that you don't have to be born into this. It's hard work.

No. It's getting your hands dirty. It's, well, the American dream is alive and well. Yeah. Look at me. I'm the son of a ditch digger. That's what I'm doing. And my dad would be chuckling right now. He'd be nodding, saying, yeah, you're absolutely right.

I mean, we're immigrants that followed a dream, that came to this country, to start a life. And only in America do you see the kind of opportunities that allow people to fulfill their dreams. And I hope that we can keep that a lot. I'm worried about that. I'm worried about our country right now and the forces that seek to undermine freedom, that seek to undermine free capitalist principles

that allow people to take risk and be rewarded for taking risks. And I hope that we see the same opportunities for the generations to come that we've been fortunate to have. I hope so too. I'm worried about it too. I know there's a lot of us worried about the direction that we're heading in right now. Yeah, pisses me off. Me too. Yeah. No, there's a lot of us worried about the direction that we're heading in right now. Yeah, pisses me off. Me too. I'm pretty, pretty angry about the state of affairs in this country.

And I hope that we can find more unity. That's the funny thing is I feel like when all is said and done, we really have more in common as we pull people together and we unify our communities. But there's so much out there trying to divide us. And I hope that truth will prevail and that good people will work together to to help our country thrive in the future It's it's important I I'm very thankful for the opportunities. I've been given I wouldn't be where I'm at without good parents

grandparents with without great examples even my My teachers grandparents, grandparents without great examples, even my teachers, my high school teachers who had such an impact on me. Our educators don't get anywhere near the praise that they should. In fact, we just went to, we took our favorite high school teacher to mission impossible this last weekend just to stay in close touch and the impact that Mr. Blazdel who is who is our favorite teacher he taught English and German a pleasant growth high school the impact he has had on our lives and inspiring us to do better to be better

lives and inspiring us to do better, to be better. Not only with learning English, but also being better human beings and following his example, that impact and that influence cannot be underestimated. And I think it's important we, I think it's important that we honor those who are teaching our children that are teaching correct principles and being examples for our community. And so it's fun. What you'll find with me is I surround myself primarily with people that have had an impact on me since my youth. My best friends, regardless of what their occupation or their path in life are, and even the teachers from my past still act and serve as mentors. And I'm thankful for that.

That's amazing. Let's talk about your wife, Kristen. So we had dinner last night, me and my wife, and you and Kristen, and you know, I never really know what to expect. And especially with somebody like you coming in, And I never really know what to expect. And especially with somebody like you coming in, you never really know how it's going to go.

And both of you are so grounded and just a real pleasure to be around and you compliment each other perfectly. When did you guys meet? We met a number of years ago. We've only been married for almost two years, but we met each other at age 11 and lived in the same neighborhood, grew up together, but went different directions. We didn't date in high school.

I should have had more courage to ask her out, but she was both too pretty and I think she was a little shy and I was as well. But we end up bumping into each other later in life. She's a widow. Her first husband died of H1N1, the flu a number of years ago. And left her raising two boys and a daughter and grappling with what that meant, the implications of being a widow in her early 40s. and I've been in a in a state of transition was was married for decades but that didn't work out. I mean life is complicated. We all like to think when

we're young that it's going to be a linear, it's going to be a straight linear predictable path but it isn't. Life throws a lot of curveballs. And I've been fortunate as we've met each other a number of years ago, actually bumped into each other in the lobby of her building where she was working for one of the most prominent law firms in the state that I happen to be working with, that we reconnected and I'm fortunate to have a wife that is not only my best friend and my partner, but someone who shares the same excitement and shares the same goals and objectives.

It's great to have that. I didn't know that that existed. I was pretty jaded. I didn't know that that existed. I was pretty jaded. I didn't think that you could really be married to your best friend. And that that would be possible, but she's been a key force behind everything. Business, skin walker ranch and all of these other efforts and she's a she's she's a lot of fun. We I've never laughed so hard in my life and I never thought I would find balance at age 50. It's funny I really am at a teenager from the

80s stuck in a 50-year-old body. If you ever want to figure out what makes me tick or really my worldview, just think of me as a 16-year-old from the 80s stuck in this time frame in a 50-year-old body and that sums it up. I think it's important to note, my friends and I really remind me of the kids on Stranger Things. I don't know if you're familiar with that series on Netflix. But my best friends and I, we were 12, 13 years old in the mid-80s at that same time period and we were convinced that there was nefarious activity going on and you know under the surface of

small town pleasant Grove and and there were mysteries to be solved and I remember riding our bikes around town between toilet paper people people's homes at night and running down to 7-Eleven to get a big gulp or a slurpee and to watching videos from the local video store, we were really fortunate to have a world ahead of us that seemed to have no limits. There seemed to be no limiting factors. And I would say that that still holds true. Our greatest barriers to success are sitting right there in the mirror. I think we hold

ourselves back more than anyone else. The power to take command of one's destiny is right there in the palm of your hand. And so back then, I remember anything seemed possible. And I think this realm, this reality that we live in is a reality where long shots are possible, where dreams can be fulfilled. You look at the heroes of our age, whether it be Michael Jordan, you see his story played out in that there's a movie called Air that shows his deal, you know, the deal with between he and Nike that created the air Jordan. And you go down the list of just incredible examples of triumph over adversity and the fulfillment of dreams

and ambition manifest in our world. And it's nothing short of it inspiring. And I think we're just getting warmed up. I think the opportunities we have before us in this day and age, where we all carry around the equivalent of a library of Alexandria in our pocket times 10,000, where there really aren't limiting factors, at least so far, as long as we preserve and protect our freedoms and our right to be able to succeed

and to take risk and be rewarded for that risk. I think keeping that intact, that system intact is going to be so critical to our success going forward. I mean, our ancestors fought for it, died for it, died, so many people died so that we can enjoy the freedoms we have today. And you're proof of that. I mean, you serving with the Navy Seals,

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One of them being, making the world a better place. I know that, Kristen, I believe, sits on the board of a nonprofit that is combating sex trafficking abuse. And that has been a topic that we've been hitting here on the show quite a bit. And so I just, I wanna commend you guys,

both of you for that. That's amazing work, very important. And if you wanna expound on that a little bit. Oh, we think it's important to give back. We're very passionate about our community. Utah Valley University, where we both went to school, is dear to us, I think providing scholarship opportunities for single mothers. Her mother was a single mom.

She was raised by a single mom just down the street in my neighborhood. I was fortunate to have a leadership scholarship that afforded me the opportunity to go to school and tandem with with with building my career and commercial real estate at a young age. I think giving to good causes supporting causes that will help our community and help the next generation succeed and carry that torch forward is an important part of our legacy and we're fortunate to be serving on a lot of boards and contributing to a lot of incredible causes. Junior achievement, it's a prairie. We even work actively with the chambers of commerce

to help support our business community and elevate, I think, the community's ability to lead not only in our state, but also be recognized as an example of excellence nationwide. It's no coincidence that Utah has continually been recognized as the number one place to do business in the country. Well, the number one economic place to do business. And it's because we have an incredible environment where the pioneer spirit that was brought by our ancestors is still alive and well. That entrepreneurial pioneering spirit that drives

our community forward is thankfully still alive and well to this day. So, Bren, what is your involvement with the Separia Foundation? My wife, Kristen, serves on the advisory abode of Separia, which really focuses on helping victims of sexual abuse. It started off, we really focused on women and girls who have been the victims of sexual abuse. It started off, we really focused on women and girls who have been the victims of sexual abuse and now men are also being aided through that effort, but we feel that's an important philanthropic effort and something that we are passionate about. Their goal is to end abuse and end it through education and providing a safe place for

victims to be able to get the help they need and educating, you know, the community as to the challenges that are out there. That's awesome. Are you guys involved in any other? Out to charities? Yeah. Maloof Foundation. We're proudly working with them and supporting them. Utah Valley University. What is the, what is the previous one? Maloof Foundation, also, you know, human trafficking is something that they are, are, are focused on eradicating. Elizabeth Smart, who has an incredible story, sits on their board and as part of their effort, but they do great work. My wife's work with Cypria is resulting in saving lives.

That's amazing. And educating people with a focus on ending sexual abuse. It's like I said, I mentioned before, that's a topic that I made at a point to cover this year and I'm gonna continue to cover it. I already have interviews lined up all the way through next year on the topic and I gotta tell you, you know, the more I dive into that,

the more I realize it's not getting any better. It's it's more is coming out on it And it's it's just it's a Dark sad, but Probably with the most important topic that we need to start discussing today well and and providing solutions, giving people safety and help that are coming out of those incredibly difficult situations. So we're very proud to be supporting those efforts as well as other philanthropic efforts. It's a key part of our mission. We need more people like you out there doing that.

That's amazing. I'm nothing. I'm just a... My first boss in commercial real estate told me one day, he said, don't forget, you're nothing but a glorified pots and pans salesman. Let's keep it real. I'll write it on. And so I've always tried to keep it real.

That at the end of the day, I'm just, I'm here as a service provider. And we're only good as good as our next deal. Every day I wake up, program to feel unemployed. And people ask me, well, haven't you felt great success when you close on the sale of an office

park or you put together a new project and close that deal and you close a mega deal doesn't that doesn't that bring a sense of peace and success and gratification and the the reality is the hours following the closure the successful closure of my largest transactions are the ones where I felt the most anxiety. Because I realize I am unemployed. You are only as good as your next deal,

as your next project. And at the end of the day, no one cares what you did a year ago. Two years ago. It's what have you done today? What are you doing tomorrow? Memories fade and the ability to constantly reinvent and sharpen the saw. So to speak, is a key to success in business,

not being complacent. Yeah. You know, the other thing that came full circle, which I didn't learn until last night, is skim walker ranch. So, Kristen was talking about her mother and how she had this infatuation with UAP, UFO, phenomenon, type stuff. And then you come along,

you guys get married. And I don't, did you already, I already owned the audience. But it was a, it was a happy coincidence that she, she happened to be raised by an experiencer. Her mother was an experiencer that witnessed a UFO and brought daylight with her brother and shared that experience her entire life with those around her, including her daughter, Kristen, my wife. And so Kristen was already somewhat familiar with the

landscape associated with the UFO topic. And to hear my disclosure that I had acquired this infamous piece of property that had been the center of gravity for research and investigation, dealing with these topics was happy realization and quite interesting. And it has brought things full circle. I would have never imagined. If you would have asked me 10 years ago, if I would be in this position today, that I would be in this position today that I would own a piece of property and be funding

to the tunes of millions, if not tens of millions, a dollar's private research into documenting the reality of the phenomenon, I would have laughed. I would never have imagined it. And frankly, I had no desire to reveal my identity as the owner when I purchased the property. I did not want my name associated with these topics or the history associated with the ranch. As curious as I was, I was a skeptic. I was an open-minded skeptic that believed that there was a natural perseic explanation for what had been reported there for decades, if not millennia.

And it has been an incredible journey to go from not just a skeptic, but to Zoom right past being a believer to an experiencer. That was very unexpected. But to zoom right past being a believer to an experiencer that that was very unexpected All bad. Well, let's Before we dive into skim walk a ranch. Let's take a quick break and when we come back We'll figure out how that even wound up on your radar to begin with you bat. All right

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It'll take you right there. And if you don't want to, and you just want to continue to watch the show, that's fine too. I appreciate it either way. Love you all. Let's get back to the show. Thank you.

All right, Brandon. We're back from the break. And now we're getting to what I've really been dying to talk to you about Skim Walker Ranch. I mean, I found Skim Walker Ranch from a buddy of mine that I used to work with at CIA. He passed me the program and I dove in and I was just, I've been infatuated with it ever since. And there's just, there's so much going on there You have cattle mutilation you have radiation spikes you have

more uap UFO activity than than anywhere else I've ever heard of Yeah, you have all these these weird injuries happening to people that out there. I mean how did this How did this branch ever even wind up on your radar? Well, it's an unlikely story. But about 13 years ago, I was funding an advanced physics effort. We'd actually transformed a large percentage of our hanger facility, of our family's aviation management and hanger facility at the Provo Airport into an engineering lab testing physics theories dealing with gravitational physics.

It was an interesting effort, it was something I did not publicize, and we ultimately, using scientific rigor and discipline, disproved the core claims and the theories that were being advanced. But through that effort... Hold on, what got you interested in that? Yeah, it was a former client. So I had a client that I represented back in the mid-90s that was a genius software development executive that ended up forming a company that became the world's leading internet consulting firm. And he left that firm ultimately to fund efforts relative to the UFO phenomena,

had claimed that he had his own experience, had been visited. I found it all to be quite unbelievable, but I could not deny his success in business. I'd had the privilege of negotiating his first headquarters transaction and working with him at a young age and when reconnecting with him in late 2009 going into 2010, he claimed that he'd spent tens of millions of dollars focused on really discovering the technology or the principle of action that would enable gravity, you know, anti-gravity and over-unity energy. I was skeptical, in the 90s. I mean, he sold his first company to Novel as a teenager. And as I had mentioned, he'd built the world's largest internet consulting firm

that I had the privilege of advising and working with. So, hearing his claims, I was intrigued, I was willing to invest, even willing to devote some of our facilities and resources to the effort. Well, it ended up becoming a very challenging endeavor, but through that experience, I developed relationships with a team of science advisors that unbeknownst to me were simultaneously advising and a Lucid billionaire out of Las Vegas named Robert Bigelow, Bigelow Aerospace, who as a real estate developer and Entrepreneur was a kindred spirit of sorts and so it

Following the closure of that research project back in 2013 I was surprised to receive a call from the two senior science advisors that had been on our board with the question as you know asking if I would be interested in having a discussion and meeting with Mr. Bigelow regarding a ranch in Northeastern Utah, known as Skinwalker Ranch. They asked me if I'd heard of this place. I told them, yeah, I was familiar with a book that had been published, you know, back in the mid-2000s called, Hunt for the Skinwalker. I chuckled and told them, me. I didn't know that there was any truth to it, but I remember being an entertaining read at the time. But I told them, I said, you know

that I'm escapic. I've never seen a UFO, a ghost orb. You're also aware that I just concluded funding a project where we, by using scientific rigor and discipline, debunked the core claims. And I'm really not interested in these French topics. And I happen to believe that there's most likely a natural pro-Jake explanation for the claims that are being made. Well, they proceeded to say, well, Brandon, there's a lot more going on that meets the the eye and you as a real estate mogul and advisor in the Intermountain West seem to be a potential fit to join venture, at least have a discussion with Mr. Bigelow. And I agree.

I jumped at the chance to at least have a meeting, to have a discussion, flew down to Las Vegas and found myself at Mr. Bigelow's, Bigelow Aerospace Compound, which is the closest thing to a James Bond villain lair that I've ever seen. I mean, it's an incredible facility. I mean, huge buildings that house full-size space stations and space habitats that have been designed where they're doing the materials, science, and the life safety, testing, and engineering to really position Bigelow Aerospace at least at the time to be the real estate development company of space. Wow. And Mr. Bigelow had an interest in potentially selling the Utah property. He had expressed not only willingness to consider the sale, but the fact that he was very

busy and occupied with negotiating deals with SpaceX and NASA and others, playing a key role in the private space race. We had a great visit and I think developed a good relationship. I told him that I was a skeptic that I'd never seen a UFO or a ghost or or or anything of the sort and that I would be bringing in my own team. I also asked him for any of the data and he said, well, I'm selling the property on an asus basis. I'm not willing to turn over any data.

Not only because the ranch was part of a Pentagon-funded black budget program between 2007 and 2013, but he went on to say that he felt, you know, he wanted to keep that private. And I agreed. At the end of the day, I felt that starting with a clean slate would help me establish a baseline and most likely help me even better establish that there was a natural explanation. So you wanted a clean slate. You didn't want the previous data or research?

No, I didn't push. I asked respectfully and I respected his response and his request. Did he, so was it, was he unable to pass the research and the data because it was a black budget program or did he just, he just wasn't willing to share? Yeah, I think it was both. Did he want you to continue the research at the ranch? I think he saw, he saw in me a worthy successor as someone who would at least be the appropriate

owner taking it forward, given my real estate background proximity to the ranch. I live about two and a half hours away. It's only about a 45-minute flight via helicopter. And he had heard positive things about me from his science advisors. His science advisors had told him that I had managed the project that we had shared in common with professionalism. Introducing Rich Valdez, America at Night, The Podcast. Welcome to the conversation, family, a perfect blend of news and entertainment, interviews and insights. It's really just an expose on how messed up things are.

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so long as my identity would be kept confidential. And I worked with my legal counsel to structure the entities that would shield my identity. In fact, my name wasn't on any of the paperwork by design. I had registered agents that managed that process and truly wanted to stay below the radar and not have my identity associated with the ranch in any way. What year was this?

2016. 2016. Closed on the property the first week in April 2016 and proceeded to bring in my own team and assess really whether there was any reality to the claims that were being made. At the time I was on the board of the National Parks Council, the Boy Scouts of America. And honestly, was intending to donate it to the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts for a potential site where those experiences it could be had, because I didn't think that there was anything truly unusual.

I felt like, you know, my investigation and research would ultimately confirm that there was nothing paranormal or disturbing about this incredible piece of property. And so when I flew in and saw the property for the first time, I was shocked at how beautiful, how strikingly beautiful the landscape was. As the helicopter came in and I was looking over at my brother who was piloting and looking back at Jim Morse who I was recruiting to come in and be really the face of the property at the time

and be the ranch manager and the community liaison. I was taken aback by how beautiful the property was and the diversity of the landscape. Here you have this red rock mesa that runs the entire expanse of the property from east to west. You have waterways that bisect the property. You have these old pioneer homesteads that are still standing, that provide a very unique, interesting backdrop. And it is a working ranch. I mean, there has been cattle brought on and off the property periodically. And I've maintained that use through my stewardship

over the course of the last seven plus years as well. And so when I flew into the property, I was just shocked at how beautiful it was. You could shoot any number of Hollywood films, of John Wayne Westerns on this property, or even Westworld, which is a favorite of mine. It's that diverse and that strikingly unique. And I proceeded to engage professionals to bring in a superintendent within days Thomas Winterton, who helped assess the physical facilities and what we needed to do in order to install certain things.

And we had caretakers at the time. I had a professional annex Marine who was a drone expert that was tasked with not only conducting drone surveillance of the property, but also developing a historical record of the landscape to better understand every inch of this 512 acre assemblage. So when you took over, when you took possession of skin walker ranch, you really had, you didn't have any idea how much activity was actually happening there. No.

On top of that, you were a skeptic. You had mentioned last night that you had purchased skin walker ranch to basically debunk the entire UFO-UAP talk. So what I'm curious about is how does somebody that has been conducting experiments with the US government on a black budget program who very much believes in all of these phenomena that are happening? How do you determine the value when you're selling to a skeptic who wants to acquire it to debunk

the entire operation? Yeah, it's a negotiation, it's subjective, but I think Mr. Bigelow knew that I was respectful. He knew that I would handle the property with care, with respect. I think that he respected my desire for anonymity, for privacy. I didn't tell my family. My family, my closest business partners were purposely out of the loop and unaware of my family, my closest business partners were purposely out of the loop and unaware of my acquisition and this new venture by design.

So it was an interesting launch to the saga that continues to unfold with Skinwalker Ranch. In the first several months, we dealt with primarily challenges dealing with dilapidated infrastructure. We had a septic system that wasn't working, that was backed up. I found quickly we didn't have adequate power infrastructure to be able to secure the property. We had no fiber optic connectivity to be able to effectively

conduct a more advanced investigation. So the first several months, I coordinated with Thomas Winterton and Jim Morris and my caretakers and other advisors to address the infrastructure issues of this property. It was very, very rundown. There was no command center. There was no technology. The reports that Mr. Bigelow received on a weekly basis were sent via fax.

There was a fax machine in 2016. There was a fax machine that was the primary technology used for disseminating reports, relative to activity at the ranch, believe it or not. And I was surprised to find that the ranch was in that state. I was also surprised to find that on the perimeter fence line, there were animal body parts. There were animal bladders hanging from the fence line when I was first shown the property by exiting big low security. And I asked the security, I said, what is the nature of what the hell is that?

Why are those things hanging from the fence line perimeter of the property? And security at the time looked at me, the straight face, and said, look, the Native American neighbors that surround this property. Place these animal bladders on the fence line and bless them to keep the demonic spirits and entities inside this property and off of their property. And I quickly learned that the tribal leaders in the UN to basin and surrounding the property had been telling their people not to even look the way of the ranch. That they were told, don't even look the way of the wrench, that they were told don't even look the way of the property, or else you may have demonic forces, entities that would follow you. And that's something that has been discussed and documented, but is an interesting part of the history.

So I was very surprised when first inspecting the property and visiting the property at what I found. After a couple of months, my surveyor contacted me one day with a report that he just captured the image of a UFO. I was right about noon in June of 2016 and I said, really are you sure? And he said, yeah, I have it on my camera. And I told him, will you stop everything right now? Don't talk to anyone else, drive straight to my office because I want the metadata. I want to download that picture without it

being corrupted, without it being compromised. I want it directly on my graphic director's computer to be analyzed if you really believe that you've captured something. So he did. He drove two and a half hours straight to my office in Salt Lake City and downloaded that image right there in front of me. You know, with my graphics director, we still have the metadata and it was an interesting image. In fact, it reminded me of the Millennium Falcon from Star Wars fame. And it was interesting. I checked the flight records to see if there was any activity, any commercial or private air traffic that would match up with that in the basin during that time.

Again, it corresponded to that metadata and there was none. And it was intriguing. Was I convinced that the UFO phenomena was real, that there was some extraordinary cause or origin to this no. But I was intrigued. Several weeks later, I get another call, branded. I've got another image. We, myself and the caretakers just saw a glowing object appear right outside of Homestead 1 or right outside of the ranch house and I've got the images and

And I've got the images and I need to show you this. And I told them, drive straight to my office. Please, get here as fast as you can. And sure enough, it was an intriguing image. We had the metadata. It was very different than the UFO that was captured weeks before. How so? It had a different shape, different characteristics. Do you still have these images?

I'll share those with you. You put them up on screen. You bet. And those created some interest. I still was unconvinced. I mean, we have the Utah Test and Training Range out west of Hill Air Force Base. I mean, I've worked as the commercial real estate advisor to Falcon Hill in that aerospace research park, and I'm aware that there are programs that are out there

and their tests being conducted that could very well be potentially connected with some of the the N. I. Unidentified aerial phenomena that that had been reported. So I I remained curious but unconvinced. And then in October of 2016, I received a call from one of my advisors saying that a certain individual, a prominent doctor out of Las Vegas who had been working on Area 51, had been a consulting physician, Area 51, had his number one request, his number one wish on his life bucket list to visit Skinwalker Ranch. And this advisor of mine asked if I would be willing to host him and I said,

you, of course, I was intrigued by this individual's background and I said, as long as they signed the confidentiality agreement and the liability waiver that I put in place, I have no problem hosting him. What did that conversation go like when he arrived? Well, so they arrived in Salt Lake City, signed the confidentiality agreement. I, I, of course, informed them that I,

I did not want my identity as the owner in the public domain. I didn't want that disclosed, and I appreciated them keeping that private. I also told them that there had been reports, of course, for 20 plus years, that there's strange activity in the property, and that even though I hadn't witnessed anything. I mean, is this... Sorry, I've got a little head of myself here, but as a skeptic, as a skeptic of the entire operation that's been going on there, even after seeing the two images. The photo images, yeah. You were still a skeptic of the entire operation that's been going on there, even after seeing the two images, you were still a skeptic, right?

And now you have a guy who had a major part in Area 51, which, I mean, what's going through your head when you get a phone call asking you for this guy from Area 51, this is his lifelong dream to come out to Skim-walkered ranch. I mean, does that validate? No, I just thought it was cool. I thought it was interesting.

I was happy to host them. And so when they signed the confidentiality agreement and flew into Salt Lake City and met with me, you know, an hour before making the journey and flying out to the ranch, you know, I told them, I said, you understand, I've owned the ranch for six months and I haven't yet to experience anything unusual. I've been going out there periodically to inspect the property, meet with my team, and all I find

is a beautiful landscape. So if you're expecting that you're going to come out today and see something unusual, bear in mind I own the property and I have yet to witness anything personally with my looking at a historic landscape that has a very interesting history to it, but don't expect anything more than that. I wanted that disclaimer to be out there at the very beginning. And so we proceeded to fly out to the ranch. We were accompanied by my physicist who is Eric Bard, who continues to this day as our principal investigator. Eric was also a skeptic. Eric was the physicist brought in to debunk and disprove the claims of the gravitational

physics effort that I had funded at our private hands. I thought who better to bring in, to bring scientific rigor and discipline and a critical eye and critical thinking skills to the ranch than Eric Bard. He had already disproved these core claims that we'd spent millions of dollars investigating and Was a very very skeptical person. I mean you could you could flat out call him He he's a he's a non-believer and so Eric barred the physicist to company to us that day as well as ranch manager Jim Morse and Upon arrival everyone wanted to hike up the mace. Everyone wanted to get up on top of the mace and look out over this incredibly beautiful property. And I was, I, okay, fine, knock yourselves out.

I was wearing our Monty slacks and black dress shoes and I didn't want to get dirty. And I was trying to somehow get a line out at the time to check my voicemail. And so they proceeded to hike up to the top of the mesa and within minutes I hear Eric Bard, the physicist starts shouting down, Brandon, Brandon, get up here.

I look up and I yell, I said, really, you really want me to hike? You really want me to hike up. You want me to run up the face of the mesa to join. He says, yes, get up here right now. He's pointing to his iPhone. So I shrug, go booking it up the face of the mesa in my dress shoes and my slacks. And as I arrive out of breath at the top of the mesa, he's sitting there looking

at his phone and motions for me to watch his iPhone, we sit there in silence for minutes, nothing's happening. I see nothing unusual. I'm like, what are you talking about? And Eric says, well, you should have seen it. My phone was malfunctioning in the most strange ways. It was turning all sorts of magenta, purple color. And I've never seen this. It was very, very unusual.

And I just shrugged. I said, well, it's not doing it now. And about that time, the others that were up there on the mace said that they were feeling a little bit woozy, feeling a little uneasy. And wanted to hike back down and proceed with the tour of the ranch. And so we all went down and proceeded to drive out to Homestead 2, which

is the cluster of old structures that seems to be a center of gravity for strange phenomena on the property. And as we pull up to homestead 2 and we're all kind of congregating out in front of those old structures, it was interesting. A few people said, well, do you feel the ground shifting? And even Eric Bard said, yeah, I feel, you guys feeling this sensation that I'm feeling kind of vertigo and I was kind of across the courtyard from them. And I just smiled and said, no, I don't feel anything.

And then all of a sudden Eric says, ah, my phone's doing it again. My phone's malfunctioning again. Well, I learned from earlier that I need to move fast if I'm gonna see whatever is happening. And so I dart over to his side. And sure enough, his whole phone had turned purple, had turned this magenta purplish color

and was flashing and acting all erratically. And everyone was talking about how they were feeling uneasy. Well, thank goodness he had the presence of mind to screen capture the malfunctioning phone. I'll share that with you right now. Thank you. And you can see it. In fact, he was taking photos of me right before

standing in the entry to Homestead 2. In front of the doorway, just before, they started feeling uneasy. Then, ultimately, this smartphone malfunction started occurring. It was strange. My brother, Cameron, who is a very skilled aviator, has multiple degrees in aviation science and management, and my little brother, Matthew, who runs operations, who are there, said that they weren't comfortable.

Staying there, he said, we want to leave. We'll go to the airport, call us later on today when you're available, but we're feeling uneasy. Which I thought was the silliest thing. I'm like, come on, really? What, so how many people from Area 51? It was well, so there was the one, the surgeon, the doctor, and then he was accompanied by two security professionals. One was the former president of the California Health Angels, and another one was a contractor, and then he had his son,

who was a grown adult. I don't know how old he was, but his son also accompanied. So it was a group of four of them that joined at the time, my brother's Eric Bard, who is my consulting physicist and Jim Morse, ranch manager. And they're all witnessing this. So what was the conversation like they signed the paperwork, they signed the non-disclosure, the waiver?

What are they hoping to see? Well I asked them, I said, after telling them, I've never seen a UFO. I've owned the ranch for six months. And all I've seen is a strikingly beautiful landscape. And I'm skeptical. I've never seen anything like that that I can report. And I proceeded to ask them. I said, we're sitting there preparing to leave

for Skinwalker Ranch. I said, do you guys really believe in this UFO crap. And the two security guys, the two security professionals that were accompanying the doctor said, no, they shook their heads, no. We don't believe it. And the doctor just smiled. And he says, you guys don't even know what you're talking about. You have no idea what is real.

And we all just kind of shrugged it off and I kind of winked at the two security guards knowingly that, oh yeah, the doctors probably just another UFO nut but that's okay, he's a nice enough guy. So anyways, we find ourselves out at Homestead 2. Smartphone malfunctioning, everyone's feeling these physical effects. My brothers are feeling uneasy enough

that they wanna leave and they leave. They're happier driving and sitting at the airport for hours until I tell them that we're ready to fly back. And I'm finding the whole thing interesting. Well, as we're all discussing the history of skin walker ranch in the homesteads, we proceed to get our phones out to take some pictures. I felt like it was a good photo opportunity. And lo and behold, my phone's dead.

It had previously been at 80% charge. My phone's completely dead. Eric Bard's phone that had recorded that where he had screen captured the anomaly, the strange colors and flashing was dead. The others phones were dead. So we, you know, we didn't have our cameras. So I thought, darn, well, we better go take them back to the ranch house and plug them in and let them charge up, but we don't want to disrupt our day because a bit it was very frustrating. And so we took the phones back, put them in chargers, and then we proceeded to return back out to the old homesteads. At this time we drove all the way back out to homestead 3, which is beyond homestead 2. And it's a single structure. It's it's it's it's pretty haunting looking.

And we pull up around the backside of the structure. This is October, October 14th of 2016. And we all pile out and we all walk around the other side. And again, we're looking at the landscape and everyone's visiting and having a good experience. I mean, my brothers have returned, have left and returned to the airport awaiting a call you know, hours later. And we're just visiting.

And after about 10 minutes, I ask, well, where's George, the big guy, that the security, the six foot six security professional that was there, was present. And for some reason, we kind of lost track of them. And everyone said, well, when we all piled out of the open air Polaris UTV, the Ranger, now no one really paid attention. I said, well, let me go try to find him. So I proceed to walk around to the back of the homestead, homestead three, to find

George. And right as I'm coming around the corner in this this grass area where we'd parked it and the vehicle being off in the distance. It was as if something cupped my ears. All of my hearing was impacted. It was as if I walked into a into a soundproof room. If you've ever been into an anicoic chamber or a soundproof rev and that sensation, the only thing you can do to simulate it right now is by, you know, cupping your ears. It's like a frequency change. Yeah, all of the ambient noise disappears. And I thought it was the strangest thing. It

was the strangest sensation. And then I see, often the distance, standing fully upright, this six foot six giant of a man in the back of this UTV. And I thought, that's odd. So I yell his name, George. And I can hear kind of muffled. It's almost like yelling underwater, that's strange. And I proceed to walk, to get closer. And he's not responding.

And as I near the vehicle and shout his name again, he's standing upright with his eyes closed and Right as I'm nearing the vehicle all of the ambient noise all of the sound comes back Is is restored and as I yell his name again his eyes fluttered open and he looked down at me and I said what's going on? Something happened, what's going on? He said, well, that was weird. And I asked him, I said, what was weird? What is weird? And he said, well, when you all jumped out, when you pulled up and you

stopped the vehicle and you all jumped out. I stood up and found myself paralyzed. I couldn't speak. I couldn't move and then everything went black. And he asked, how long have I been here? And I said about 10 minutes. And he just shook his head, was obviously disturbed. I asked him, I said, is this ever happened to you in your life if you ever had this experience? And he said, no, I've never experienced anything like this. 10 minutes, wow. He had past. Who knows what happened, but he felt odd. He expressed the fact that he felt a little bit off. We proceeded to gather everyone up and jump back in the vehicles. So as we're going back to retrieve our phones to have our cameras. We're driving on that dirt road at the base of the Mesa. You know that main road that you see on the

Docu series that runs east west on the property. And as we're about halfway back to Homestead 1 or the Ranch House or the Command Center as we now call it. The other security professional in the back starts shouting, stop the vehicle. Stop the vehicle. And I'm driving. I'm just trucking along driving this little plurus UTV. And I look back and he's waving his hands pointing up ahead. So I bring the vehicle to a stop.

And he's just shouting, he says, look at that, look at that. And sure enough, I look right where he's pointing right ahead of us, right above the mesa at four o'clock in the afternoon on October 14th. And there is a 40, 50 foot long silver grayish disc like object. What can only be described as a flying saucer. And it's just sitting there in in broad daylight, clear as day, right above the mace. Probably about a hundred feet above the mace or so. And we're all sitting there astonished.

I'm like, you guys see that? And he's like, yeah, that's what I was trying to get you to stop the vehicle. Within a couple of seconds, it changes position. It literally blinked from one position to another. Either it moved with split second speed or it was able to change position through some other means, but it moves about 50 feet to the left or to the north. We all, like it appeared 50 feet to the left, or you've actually saw it was like,

in the blink of an eye, it could change position and move that quickly. We all sat there astonished. Did you see that? Seconds later, it drops to just kind of a low hover above the mesa. It literally changes of a low hover above the mesa. It literally changes position and drops right above the mesa. Still sitting there, clear as day.

It was almost like a video game. It looked, it was surreal. And then within a few seconds later, it darts to the right. We're all with every movement. We're gasping. We're saying, are you watching this? Do you see this? And then within about 20 seconds from the start of the event, it is gone.

It either, it, it appeared that it either went to a dot as if it were darting off into the distance at split second speed or it was literally phasing out of our perception instantaneously. But it was gone. And that whole event spanning about 20 seconds that I saw right in front of us with multiple witnesses at my side, that I had not met before that day, that had professed the same skepticism that morning sat there changed forever. In that moment, Sean, I went from being an open-minded skeptic to an experiencer. It wasn't, it wasn't about belief. It was undeniable. It was fact. What we saw was real. Eric Bard, my physicist and principal investigator, upon all of us getting back back asked that we not talk

with each other about the event. He wanted to get our independent testimony, which was wise. He wanted to make sure that we all saw the same thing and all reported the same thing. And he did. He independently took down all of our testimony that matched up that aligned perfectly. We all saw the same UFO, the same erratic behavior. And we were unchanged.

What a runny... We were changed by that day, I was crazy. What amount of time were you From top of the mesa where the phone started where Eric's phone started acting up to hours So that's the hell of a soon-series or the rest. Yeah for two hours Well, and we get back and here's the post script Not only did we all give Matching independent testimony relative to the events of the day in that specific event, the next morning, the six foot six security professional that had

the experience out at Homestead 3, checked himself into the hospital where he sat for weeks with an illness that no one could diagnose, that he described as the worst sickness he'd ever experienced in his life. He couldn't get up, couldn't walk. And this immediately followed the experience. And that's a lot of correlating events that took place on that day. You have smartphone malfunction,

rapid battery depletion, acute medical episodes for multiple people. Yeah, multiple witnesses, a diversity of witnesses, including two who chose to leave the area, were so uncomfortable they did not want to stick around. And then a UFO sighting in broad daylight with multiple witnesses. All of those things that occurred in October 2016

changed my entire perspective. And from that point forward, I proceeded to not only allocate significant funds in order to establish the scientific platforms and the security necessary in order to establish the scientific platforms and the security necessary in order to study this property and to document the reality of the phenomena. But I was focused on bringing in the right team and expanding the team of professionals in order to understand the nature of what we are dealing with.

Within months, we installed full security gated entrance with the guard shack that you see today. We had all the power infrastructure upgraded, trenched, installed, fiber optic infrastructure put in place. We transformed with the help of Thomas Winterton and contractors, the old dilapidated double wide security trailer into a command center that still serves as a key point of research there on the ranch and we proceeded to to graduate from game cameras and and and and and very very basic surveillance cameras and tools to to I think much more sophisticated platforms to monitor what is happening at the ranch and the rest is history over the next year we proceeded to take more data to

document additional events UFO activity and other high-strangeness and It it propelled us forward very strangeness and it propelled us forward. Thank you for listening to the Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes and leave the Sean Ryan Show review.

We read every review that comes through and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show. All right, Brandon, we're back from the break and we just kind of finished up your first experience of seeing Phenomenon and UFOs at the branch. And so there's a couple questions just rewind and I mean you had to,

so I know you had mentioned that Bigelow did not really reveal much of what was going on at that ranch, but I would think that after that day you had to be dying to get back and touch with him and ask questions. After what you just experienced, did you do that? I reached out to his people to Dr. Kelliger and others that had been advising Mr. Bigelow and asked if there's any way we can share data from the past or collaborate, simply to better understand the nature of the phenomena at the ranch. And Mr. Bigelow was not interested, and that's okay. I respected it.

He wanted to hold all of that, keep it close to the vest and, and eat. We, I don't mean to have this pregnant pause. Some answer your question well. Which is end the truth. The truth is within weeks following that event, I wanted to pull together an advisory board and Mr. Bigelow to discuss our investigation and what we had been experiencing at the ranch, what had been documented. And so we pulled everyone together months later at the ranch and also hosted a gathering in Salt Lake City in the

spirit of collaboration. And even though a lot of it was focused on just discussing what had been reported and experienced in the past and the property, we were discussing the future scientific protocols and the investigation. And I was very clear with everyone that I wanted to use scientific rigor and discipline to carefully document the phenomena and ultimately understand the nature of what was happening. There has been great disagreement relative to the origin and the agenda associated with the phenomenon, not just a skin walker ranch, but globally. There's a lot of divide, a lot of different opinions. There's some people who say that it's all benevolent, that we're being

visited by beings from other world that are benevolent beings and star people. There are others that say that there's a more insidious, a darker motive and agenda, a point to the cattle mutilation phenomenon. I mean, you're talking over 10,000 reported and documented cases. You can bet on the fact that there are probably over 100,000 that have been unreported that have occurred. I mean, it's been called the greatest unsolved crime-spree in the country. And there's still no explanation. No one has been caught. Still to this day, to this day, no one has been caught in the active conducting a cattle medilation. It's very mysterious. And of course, that's part of the history.

There have been a lot of bizarre cattle medallations that have occurred on this property that are well documented. Mr. Bigelot, to his credit. It brought in a veterinarian. Brought in experts to consult and provide reports. Within the first several months of opening the ranch up for a docu-series effort, of course, we had a young calf, a two-year-old calf, perfectly healthy, die. Just south of Homestead 1, right there near the fence line. And investigated that incident, of course.

We had multiple smartphones that were malfunctioning, both an iPhone and a Samsung Galaxy device that were both malfunctioning simultaneous with the investigation and discovery of the cow. We had elevated gamma and other readings that were documented. And then, of course, an object that was captured by the camera surveillance going over right above that cow right about the time that it died, that it fell over. And I think one of the most intriguing parts of that part of the investigation is the

fact that even when bringing out the Utah State Veterinarian, again, this is the veterinarian for the state of Utah with the Department of Agriculture, who comes out over a year after the cow died to inspect the site, to inspect the carcass, finding no predator activity. It had remained completely untouched, mysteriously. On a piece of property where nothing survives, any dead animal is quickly dispatched

by any member of coyotes. Are you saying the cow had not decomposed and that wasn't drugged off by predators or anything? No predator or scavenger activity had touched it. In a year, over a year. Wow. The Utah State Veterinarian proceeded to order tests, actually took samples.

Those tests revealed that there was no poisoning. There was nothing unusual that they could point to that would account for the absolute lack of predator scavenger activity. And to this day, it remains one of the most mysterious incidents captured on camera and well-d, involving third-party experts that remain baffled. So we're dealing with a very dynamic set of bizarre circumstances that continue to be documented in one location on the planet, which happens to be there at Skinwalker Ranch.

And it really is the greatest science project of our time. Let's go back into just a little bit more of the history of it. So the backstory, so this goes way previous to Robert Bigelow in 1996. The Sherman's owned it from 1994 to 1996, only two years and sold it for $200,000 to Bigelow. What? Did they sell it because of all the activity that was happening? Yeah. Well, if you go back in time, the property was originally homesteaded. I mean, you had Native Americans that were part of the process and you had old early homesteaders that built the structures on the property and resided on the property going back to the

late 1800s, early 1900s. By the 1940s, the Myers family, and specifically Kenneth and Edith Myers, proceeded to live there and ranch on the property and stayed there their entire lives. Both Kenneth and Edith ended up passing away in the late 80s and early 90s. Kenneth passed away in the late 80s and Edith ended up putting, being put in a assisted care, I believe, in the early 90s and their brother-in-law who had legal authority over the estate sold the property in 1994 to the Sherman family who desired a place to raise cattle and their family. Shortly after the Sherman's acquired the property, they were overwhelmed with not only cattle mutilation events that were occurring with their prized cows, but also

poltergeist-like activity and even UFO sightings that were occurring on a pretty regular basis. They were being terrorized. Word filtered out through the community that the Sherman's were experiencing this and they were talking to their neighbors and calling people in. It caught the attention of a journalist at the Deseret News, that named Zach Van Eyck, who came out, was convinced that they were credible, that they were telling the truth. And you know, wrote a, I think several articles detailing the accounts of UFO activity, bizarre cattle mutilations and other strangeness on the property, those accounts made their way to one Robert Bigelow in North Las Vegas.

Mr. Bigelow had established the National Institute for Discovery Science, a separate side project and program for investigating strange phenomena, including UFOs and cattle mutilation, and he quickly flew in on his private jet, accompanied by Colonel John Alexander, and cut a deal with the shirmin. Acquired the property quickly, kept Mr. Sherman on for a short period of time to help with the transition, and his team of scientists not only locked down the whole property and secured it, but they proceeded to put up observation towers with bait pens surrounded by razor wire. There are three observation towers located across the property

that incorporate bait pens where they would use animals as biosensors to hopefully draw out whatever entities were there on the property. Predator-like activity is they described it. And they proceeded to launch a rigorous investigation at the time in 1996 that continued on for years. And of course years later, you know, the events, the activity, the investigation at Skinwalker Ranch was brought to the attention of officials at the Pentagon.

They had several visitors who had experiences, very compelling, undeniable experiences of paranormal activity. And that led to the Black Budget Pentagon-funded program that involved the ranch at its center. And the rest is history. But by 2013, that program had ceased for various reasons. Mr. Bigelow was actively engaged with growing his aerospace company and and and jumping into the private space race as we discussed. And the ranch, to a degree, it had faded. At the time, I was led to believe that it was simply because Mr. Bigelow was just buried, was very busy with getting his, his beam modules and his space habitats up in orbit and ultimately on the moon and Mars,

which I believe is true, but also I've learned he ascribed negative events afflicting his family to really his ownership of the ranch. Really. Mr. Bigelow blamed the ranch for dark, disturbing events that happened in their lives, and it's not my story to tell. It's been told by others and the media and advisors, but owning the ranch was not a positive experience for him. Even before him, though, this went back to Native American tribes. I mean, even in the show, I believe it correct me if I'm wrong. Are they hydrocliffs? Is that what you call them? Petroglyphs, so triglyphs.

There's rock art. We have a megalithic site. They're as well that we've investigated in the area. But there's a lot of rock art and evidence of the ancients, of the Native Americans working on the property. There's also a strange Masonic symbol that is etched into the face of the Mesa, that many of many of claimed symbolizes as above so below. There are a lot of things relative to the history that are intriguing and a little bit ambiguous, but the Native American history, the tradition, and the fact that the Navajo tribe cursed this property as a result of conflict with the U-tribe in the federal government

is something that has been confirmed over and over by members of the community, by elders, and the ridge that runs the expanse of the property. That mesa plateau or that ridge has been referred to as skinwalker ridge for a very long time. In fact, when the bigelotein first descended on the property and set up their investigation and heard the accounts of the curse, the Skinwalker curse and the lore that surrounded this property. It ultimately was referred to as Skinwalker Ranch as opposed to the Utah Ranch.

For a period of time, it was just simply the Utah ranch or the Bigelow Ranch in Utah, and then took on the identity of Skinwalker Ranches as they just simply started referring to the property as such as a result of the Native American. What is a Skinwalker? A Skinwalker is a shape-shifting demonic entity. It's essentially a native American witch or warlock that sells their soul in exchange for immortality, the ability to take on the skin or shape-shift, oftentimes in the form of a wolf, a dire wolf,

or a weir wolf-like creature, but they can also take on the shape of other animals as well. And it's a topic that I found the Native American community likes to stay away from. They don't like to discuss it to even say the name Skinwalker is negative. And it's a key part of their cultural tradition and history. Skinwalkers to the Native Americans and the UN Debation are just as real as this chair, as this bottle of diet mountain dew. It's a very real part of their cultural history. Okay, the last part of the history that I wanna talk about is we spoke a little bit

last night about remote viewing and some studies that Stanford was doing and how does that tie in his skin lock of ranch? I believe that consciousness plays a role. And consciousness studies will play a role in understanding the nature of what we are dealing with at skin walker ranch. I think the remote viewing, practice or phenomena,

I believe has validity to it. We've had a number of gifted intuitives that have consulted with our research. We have avoided some of that with respect to the documentary series as we're still gathering data. And some of it is inconclusive. A lot of it is very controversial. But I think that the nature of our consciousness and really the world around us has yet to truly be understood. Do you want to talk about any of those studies that have been released yet?

No, I think we'll be addressing those in the future. OK. But I would say that a key part of what characterizes our investigation in our research versus decades past is the fact that we've taken a very multidisciplinary approach, a very transparent approach with the community, not only in engaging the Native American community in our neighbors in a positive way, in order to gather data and understand what is happening because we're living in a very dynamic environment.

We're under no illusion that the phenomena is confined to the fence line at Skinwalker Ranch. It permeates and goes out through the entire you into basin. One of the leading experts that documented since 1950, UFO activity in great detail was a very respected teacher and electrician named Joseph Jr. Hicks. People refer to him as Jr. Hicks. He passed away a few years ago in the middle of really the the docu-series being unveiled to the public. He had spent 70 years documenting UFO activity and the UN2 Basin and all the property surrounding Skinwalker Ranch and his files coupled with the NIDs, the big-a-low team files.

It's a very compelling documentary record of activity in the UN-basin and the ranch in general. But as much as this property seems to be the center of gravity and is exhibiting the highest frequency of UFO activity and high-strangeness, it covers the UN-to-basin. I mean, people out there have continued to have experiences. Even the the oil and gas industry has had incidents occur relative to, you know, their sites out there and there are a lot of professionals who have remained silent have not wanted to go public that are now finally reaching out

to our team and letting their stories be told these are firsthand accounts of Activity that correlates with what we are seeing at Skinwalker Ranch Well, this isn't this just continues to happen just more and more. Yeah, I think momentum is building I mean you over the course of even this week We revealed video taken of potentially what could be the first clear evidence of transmedium, UAP, or transmedium, unidentified aerial phenomena that was caught, captured, coming down from the sky, dropping into the east field portion of the ranch, and then exiting right below the helicopter, caught on GoPro camera, exiting the Mesa. There are countless events that have been documented, all involving an army of third-party professionals, experts, working in service to documenting

and understanding the nature of what we are dealing with. I mean, you got it in 2016. It started happening. I believe you said six months after the transaction. I personally had my encounter, had my UFO experience with multiple witnesses six months after acquiring the property. And we've progressed significantly since that time in terms of not only the scientific platforms,

but also the amount of experts engaged. I mean, we've recently brought on as strategic partners Omnatech led by CEO Jim Royston, who is the former executive director of the International Space Station National Lab. His partner and co-founder is retired for Star General Lance Lord, former head of US Space Command. Their team includes some of the most credentialed experts when it comes to sensor technology and data collection in a host of environments globally. I mean, these are platforms that have been deployed on the battlefield

in a diversity of climates and environments that are now being brought to bear as skin walker ranch and being deployed in service to understanding the nature of what we're doing. I don't know that that has really sunk in with everyone. I mean, it's not just the fact that we brought the largest drone operating company in the country with sky elements to the table with over 200 drones for the drone experiment that resulted in what? Rapid battery depletion, GPS anomalies, all sorts of strange never before experienced malfunctions. And then a UFO. I think a lot of people forget that a UFO

ended up dropping out of the sky and appearing above 40 professionals. Yeah. Simultaneous with all of the drones malfunctioning. And then that UFO went back up into the sky and disappeared. Didn't exit. It was no longer seen, but it was clear as day

to everyone present. You tell me, how hard would it be to get over 40 people to go on record with witnessing a UFO, simultaneous with documenting rapid battery depletion, GPS anomalies and a host of other strangeness. It's, in my view, it's undeniable. I have a hard time understanding how people are skeptical when there is so much data. They're just, they're not looking into it. They're not looking into it.

Well, there's the only way after some of the things that you guys have documented and just plain as days. It's just, yeah. But going back a little bit, so after your experience, you immediately started putting together more of the team. You had Eric Bard. Sound like you had Greg Bard. Yeah, principal investigator Jim Morse, who by the way was my first big developer client

when I was 18 years old. Oh really? Jim was developing the towers at South Town, multiple class A office towers, a hotel, restaurants, right in the middle of the Salt Lake suburban market, and at 18, I was fortunate to have the opportunity to work on his projects. And when I got home from my mission at age 21, picked right back up where we left off, and Jim hired me to essentially continue the final phases of that project. One thing about Jim that I learned in being his broker and his advisor

was his love for the Native American community and his commitment to raise millions of dollars for scholarships and aid for the tribes is something that I grew to really respect over the years. Decades before acquiring skin walker rancher or having any idea that we would come together under these circumstances. When I flew out to see the ranch for the first time, having Jim as an advisor and appointing him as ranch manager seemed like a natural fit due to his strong relationships and respect for the tribes, for the Native American people. So you have Jim Morse, Thomas Winterton, who we engage to as a respected contractor, entrepreneur,

out in the basin, a hotel owner at the time, Eric Bard, principal investigator, plasma physicist, with patents to his name and incredible credentials. Dragon, you know, Brian Arnold, my head of security. Caleb Bench, who is a retired Marine. Also, part time with the law enforcement, with the county sheriff's department out there that has been given the latitude to work with us

when he's not engaged with his law enforcement activities. We have a credentialed anthropologist, in fact a published anthropologist in Candace Lindy, who is our ranch caretaker, along with Tom Lewis, technologist that reside there full time, and then a host of other experts and professionals that have collaborated with us. Everyone from LIDAR,

photogrammetry technicians, instrumented balloon, and rocket professionals to ground penetrating radar and even environmental consultants in testing the property to help us understand whether we're dealing with something that still could be naturally impacted or affected.

How did Dr. Travis Taylor come on scene? Yeah, when it was funny, Travis Taylor was recommended by the History Channel. Okay. As a as a credentialed physicist that could come in and ask the hard questions and drive the team. Let me take you back in time. Following my own UFO experience in October 2016 and the months following, we ramped up the investigation aggressively with our team. We started consulting with other advisors even staying in touch with the former scientists that had worked on the program

in order to inform them what we were seeing and ask for any insight that they could render. By 2018, the Command Center had been taking documentation, had been, you know, utilized with all of the camera surveillance, the sensors that we had in place, the flare camera system that we have deployed to monitor changes in the environment that are potentially unusual. And then one day I received a call from Washington, D.C. This is when my identity was still confidential, secret as owner. So I was surprised to receive the call.

And the call was to come to Washington to provide a briefing, an update, relative to my ownership and stewardship, and follow up to the activities of the previous owner. We flew out to DC and were happy to provide a briefing and update them on the reality of what was happening at the ranch. Again, UFO activity, acute medical episodes, especially multiple acute medical episodes that had occurred along with those reports,

the electromagnetic anomalies that had been carefully documented, and some of the other strangeness that defied any conventional explanation. About that time I was also receiving calls through Jim Morse and Thomas Winterton from producers of the History Channel wanting to meet with the owner to discuss a docu-series. The ability to come in and document the events occurring on this this piece of property. Word was starting to get out. That there was an ongoing investigation. There were photos that were leaked online that showed that there was a security presence there and that there was a very sophisticated

effort. And producers of the History Channel were held bent on getting an audience with whoever this mysterious owner was in order to pitch the opportunity to have a docu-series effort that would record and document what was happening on a day-to-day basis. They reached out for over a year. So for over a year on a day-to-day basis. They reached out for over a year. So for over a year on a weekly basis, I was being hounded by my people to at least consider potentially

responding to the phone calls. And after a year, I reluctantly agreed to the meeting subject to a confidentiality agreement being signed by everyone. Producers flew in. We had a discussion. I said number one, condition. If I were to consider this number one, it has to be true. Nothing can be faked, manipulated or contrived.

I have no interest in being part of some ghost hunters type effort. The bunch of guys tripping over themselves in the dark with night vision. This has to be true, and I have to have final cut on everything if we were to do anything. Number two, you have to use my team. We're not having any Hollywood casting call. We're not bringing individuals from the outside that could potentially compromise the integrity of the scientific investigation that I've been privately funding

to the tune of millions of dollars up until that point. And number three was that my identity needed to remain confidential. I had no interest in being on television. I didn't want my name associated with it. Again, even my family at the time had no idea that I owned the ranch, along with business partners and others. Why were you so hell-bent on everything being confidential. I did not want my ownership of this property, or the topics associated with skinwalker ranch to in any way divert from or compromise or undermine my professional endeavors, my commercial

real estate practice and other entrepreneurial activity. As chairman of the largest commercial real estate enterprise in the Intermountain West, representing Fortune 500 companies and working closely with the governor's office and other agencies, I did not want this project with Skinwalker Ranch to an anyway, detract from the decades of work to serve clients and to transform the skyline to our communities. I felt a great responsibility to my clients and I didn't know if it would be taken well by my clients. I didn't know if it would be taken well by my clients.

I didn't know how people would react, and I had no interest. I didn't want any attention, and wanted to fiercely protect the professional side of my life and didn't want these two worlds to collide. Well, it was funny, the gentleman I met with at the time, Kevin Burns, who is the president of Prometheus Entertainment, who is kind of the number one production company for History Channel at the time. I mean, of course, it's the creator of Ancient Aliens,

the Curse of Oak Island, Beyond Oak Island. The unexplained with William Schattner, it launched a series on Netflix, Lost in Space, Big Budget, Sci-Fi Epic. He's a genius, he's a very talented producer. Looked at me and he said, look, you talk about integrity, you want the truth to get out there, you're an experiencer. Yet you aren't willing to put your name behind this. How are people going to believe? The truth. How are they going to believe the authenticity and genuine nature of what

you're doing if you yourself aren't willing to go public as part of this effort. And he had a point. He essentially jet-eyeed mine tricked me into agreeing to go public. I told him, I said, you know this is gonna turn my world upside down. That's a hell of a gamble on your part. Yeah. And it's a greater liability. No one understands

what a liability this is. I have yet to take a penny personally relative to these efforts. I've never opened a bank account for Adam Antium real estate, for the entity that controls the ranch. I have purposely donated assigned any proceeds that would be due to me to to other causes You know from scholarships you know to cancer research I Have no interest in taking a penny relative to this endeavor So all profit coming to you from the show goes to charity. Yeah, charity and other efforts.

I mean, we have used some funds in order to help bolster the infrastructure that have gone to vendors, but no money, not one penny has made its way into my pocket personally, by design. That's incredible. And I want the truth more than anyone. And I'm willing to put my money and obviously my reputation, where my mouth is. This really is a greater liability to me than an asset.

And I'm hellbent on getting the truth as I stated earlier. I'm not, I'm notbent on getting the truth. As I stated earlier, I'm not a believer. I'm an experiencer. I can't unsee that which I have witnessed with multiple witnesses at my side and have continued to document over the last seven years. What we are seeing at Skinwalker Ranch is real. And it has the ability to completely change the way we look at the world, our place in the universe, and how we view reality.

Back to DC, they called you in for some type of a briefing. How receptive were they? Very. They're very receptive, very respectful. We've preceded the briefing with me, you know, preparing with the team, with Eric Bard and at the time, Dr. Jim Segala, who was participating in the first year of our docu series and another senior advisor. We proceeded to present a full keynote PowerPoint presentation. And it was very evident that those individuals who held high levels of position, of seniority,

were respectful and took this seriously and had knowledge that these things are real. Who exactly were you briefing? Was it the Senate Intelligence Committee? Or... Yeah. Okay. And it was... It was a good opportunity for me to demonstrate how serious I took my stewardship

of the property and the fact that we are using scientific discipline and rigor in order to address these topics and the phenomenon of the ranch. I tell people all the time, I use the word steward. I really believe that this is a stewardship, not just an ownership. And having a collaborative partnership with people who can bring skills and resources to the table to better understand what is happening is a key hallmark of our investigation.

Is the intelligence committee at the Senate offered any funding or any assistance? No, I have an ask for any, I don't have any interest. I have no interest in asking for money engaging the government, I've never held a security clearance. Okay. I don't have any interest in that type of formal engagement. I am interested in being transparent and collaborative with anyone, including the general public. I mean, the docu-series is my effort to disclose to the public

the reality of our investigation as it unfolds. And that is perhaps one of the most exciting parts of this effort, this endeavor that I would have never anticipated is the opportunity to allow the public a view behind the scenes as the investigation progresses. Show me another effort on the planet where there's a 24 hour live stream

for the public to access where there is more collaboration and more open disclosure and presentation of events, of data and activity. I don't believe there has ever been an effort like this. I don't know either. When the... So, History Channel got a hold of you. You guys made the negotiation and the documents that he started.

Travis Taylor got introduced. Yeah, so you had placed every member on that team. Right. You had you had fed it that time. Until the docuCeries effort, and the history general, they didn't require it, they suggested it. We'd like to suggest bringing in one person, a physicist, a credentialed physicist,

who is a skeptic who will challenge the team. And I wasn't excited, the team had no interest in bringing in another member of the family. I mean, they didn't want to bring someone into to potentially the family. I mean, they didn't want to bring someone into to potentially ruin the dynamic that we had created. But we flew everyone out to Los Angeles to meet with Dr. Taylor and production. And I was pleasantly surprised at how qualified Dr. Taylor Mewis, two PhDs in physics, he has multiple masters degrees. He's a published author. He's worked with NASA, with Army Intelligence. He's worked on classified programs. I was impressed with his credentials.

Anyone who looks at his profile, at his credentials and scoffs, they're being disingenuous. It came out later on the docu-series that he was on the UAP UFO task force for the Pentagon. Right. Well, which flew under the radar for you and the rest of your team. Yeah, it was shocking. And it frankly pissed off several members of my team. They felt betrayed to a degree for a while, A.

The fact that Dr. Taylor had taken a position as the chief scientist for the UAP task force at the Pentagon and had not disclosed to the team what was going on and that he was working in that capacity was a, it was a significant concern. We had to talk through that. And Dr. Taylor, who was called on the carpet, I mean, to essentially account for the situation,

said that, look, after, after became known that he was consulting with Skinwalker Ranch, he was part of our effort. You know, a senior official with the Pentagon reached out to him and asked him to engage, but made him do so under certain confidentiality and nondisclosure agreements. I mean, he was under oath to not disclose the nature or his involvement with the UAP task force. And I have to respect the fact that he kept that confidence. How did that make you feel? Even let's just take Travis out of the equation. You had already gone to

DC, you had briefed the Senate Intelligence Committee, and now they have an asset unannounced to you working at your property that you're funding the experiments on. And that went on for what, two, three years? Three years, yeah. Three years, you didn't know. And then it gets disclosed. Yeah. How did that, and all in, and by the way,

it was mind blowing. There's also all the surveillance going on with what 1.6 gigahertz I believe. And you have the planes flying. Obvious, very obvious surveillance patterns over the branch. You have black hawks, you have shinnooks flying around all the time. Over military surveillance seems to be a constant. And so how did that make you feel knowing that you had an asset

of the US government involved in your investigation? Mixed, mixed feelings of the time. I respected the fact that Travis did keep it confidential, the fact that he didn't pull anyone aside and whispered to them what he was doing speaks to his integrity. I think that's important. That's important, no matter how it looks, the reality is he kept his oaths. He did not violate his NDAs, even when he was probably under a lot of pressure, feeling like he probably should.

And I'm sure he desperately wanted to disclose it. So I have to respect his integrity. I also have to point out that Travis Taylor is not the principal investigator. The chief scientist is Skinwalker Ranch, investigator. The chief scientist is Skinwalker Ranch going on seven years as Eric Bard. Eric Bard is the one who lives at Skinwalker Ranch, who lives in the command center full time, has structured the platforms, is conducting the scientific investigation and leading it. Dr. Taylor,

while an important member of the team and someone that I respect, I actually love Dr. Taylor. I think he's been an incredible influence and asset to us. He's a consulting physicist and he's there to aid the team, but he's not manipulating the investigation. I can say with absolute certainty, he has not manipulated the data, the science, or anything else relative to the ranch. I mean, he's been a very supportive participant

and physicist that has been a great complimentary fit with Eric and the team. Wasn't always that way. We had a few months at the very beginning that were a little rocky as everyone was kind of trying to find their footing, you know, dragon, for example, had took issue with feeling marginalized and and felt talked down to at times by Dr. Taylor and other scientists. There's always a period of time when people are trying to build relationships of trust with each other and starting this effort was no different. But I have not been as concerned with what transpired simply because I respect the fact that

Dr. Taylor didn't breach any of his oaths or NDAs and he hasn't been the one directing the science investigation. He's been a great compliment and supporter. No good. There's right off the bat, and at the very beginning of the docu-series, there was a, the number one rule seemed to have been no digging. Right. No going below the ground. What prompted that?

That had been told, we were told that digging on the property resulted in negative negative outcomes, that people would be harmed that anytime the earth was disturbed, that any time the earth was disturbed, bad things happened. And taking into account the health and safety of those involved. And the fact that this is a, this is a televised effort. This is an effort being documented by dozens of professionals, arguably the leading documentary professionals in the country. I felt it was wise to be cautious. I gave Dragon specific direction to limit any digging activity, anything that would disturb the earth that may stimulate negative response, that would result in injury or harm.

It really was a fear. It still is. We still have incidents that have occurred in tandem with experimental activity, with disturbing the earth. Tom Lewis, who last year ended up in the hospital in the emergency room with a cardiac episode that occurred immediately simultaneous with digging activity into the base of the mesa. Was that a coincidence? I don't think so. There was the 1.6 gigahertz that the frequency showed up.

There was equipment malfunction that was captured on camera. And then, unfortunately, Tom Lewis is recorded going down on his knees with the cardiac arrest. It has to be run to the hospital by dragon and he's still being monitored and thankfully he's almost back to 100 percent but it was really concerning. We've had a number of incidents where people have ended up in the hospital with mysterious illnesses and injuries and a lot of those occasions seem to be attended by digging activity with aggressive activity on the ranch. Have I loosened that up since the first season

from those first months? Yes. I mean, I, when my team tells me, let us dig. When I have Thomas Winterton, who spent a week in the hospital fighting for his life as a result of injuries that he believes and the doctors believe are connected to his activity on the ranch when Thomas Winterton is hell-bent on digging deeper, both figuratively and literally, to find out what is happening, the mechanism behind this strange activity at the ranch, I have to defer to them. I have to give them the latitude to get to the bottom of the truth and take more aggressive measures to hopefully get some answers.

And so we've relaxed it. We've added more safety precautions since, but the no digging rule and the mandate that I gave years ago has been relaxed, but it's been as a result of both pressure and also respectful requests from the team to be able to do their work. There's so many aspects of this ranch that I wanna cover.

It's hard to organize it all under one thing. So I'm just gonna stick with the digging, but you guys are finding a some type of a metal substance within the mesa. You've seen UAPs fly into above the mesa, hover above the mesa, fly into the mesa, fly out of the mesa. Are you going to excavate that site? We're working on that. The mace is a very unstable environment. The rocks very unstable. Those boulders at the base that you see came from the top. Every time that we dig that we conduct any type of excavation or exploratory activity and disturb the earth, it's very dangerous. We see

material come down. It's a dangerous environment. We also don't want to damage the very technology or artifact or whatever may be buried in the mesa that is unnatural, that may be connected to the strange activity. the metallic substance that was recovered through the biopsy, through the drilling exercises that was analyzed by the University of Utah and shown to be not naturally occurring. And according to Dr. Taylor and others, to be matching the composition of the same material that would cover the space shuttle that would shield a craft at entry from extreme heat. That type of material that has been extracted from the Mesa is real. It's somehow, it accompanies something else. I mean, I believe that it's just the tip of the iceberg of what may lie beneath. And we don't want to damage the very thing

that may hold the key to getting the answers. So we're having to conduct a very careful biopsy and probing effort in the Mesa due to both the health and safety concerns of the instability of the environment, coming down on us literally in the middle of it, and also the fact that we don't want to damage the very object or the material that may lie within. It's like, imagine if there's a stargate

to use a science fiction example. If there is a million-year-old stargate that has some type of advanced technology that is involved with the UAP activity and the other strangeness that seems to be triggered with high-frequency in the area, and that is somehow it's buried in that mace, or there's a base. We don't want to, we don't want to damage, we don't want to blow up the very technology, the very device that may hold the key

to understanding the nature of what we're dealing with. Yeah, I completely understand. I mean, it seems indestructible. When I saw that drill going there, and it just, I mean, just got a little bit of substance, and it stopped the drill. I mean, what, how do you sleep at night? What do you think is, what do you think is it?

I don't sleep at night. I hardly get any sleep. I'm hell bent on getting the answers. I've said, I want the answers more than anyone. I'm putting my money in my reputation where my mouth is and I want to come in aggressively and get to the bottom of it. But I don't want to be so aggressive

that we end up damaging the very thing that we're trying to unearth, or we end up, or, or end up with people more people hurt unnecessarily. What are the offline conversations about between you and your team on what's under there? What does Eric Bard think is? You know, Eric reserves judgment. You'll notice Eric, Eric is not quick to make any claims. Eric is very reserved, methodical.

Members of the team have theorized that there's a spacecraft, that there must be a spacecraft in the Mesa, that there may be a dome like, that there may actually be some type of object of mysterious, unnatural origin that is buried there, 400 feet into the Mesa. I mean, there are those who believe that there may be something, could be a meteorite that landed there, who knows millions of years ago, that contains, you know, interesting composition. There are so many different theories relative to what lies in the mesa. If there have been any discussions on what that excavation site might look like, would

it be like an archaeological dig? Yeah, ultimately. I mean, you have to treat it as an archaeological dig, but you first have to probe and have to excavate sufficient to make access without damaging the environment. So what you're going to see unfold over the course the next few months, the next year I think is an unprecedented effort to more aggressively address the Mesa and what lies beneath. As the old Masonic symbol etched into the cliff of the Mesa denotes as above so below, we may find the answers to what we're seeing above

in the sky right there under our noses below the Mesa, but we want to be very careful and responsible and how we explore that area. I can't wait to see that. So it's a great mystery. And we're not trying to tease. I'm not, we're not trying to tease. We're not trying to hold back.

And we're certainly not meaning to delay. I mean, time is of the essence. to delay. I mean, time is of the essence. I'm the type of person that lives in a world where execution is everything, where accomplishing the end goal is something that drives every discussion. And I want to move as swiftly as we can. We do have weather issues out there. I mean, it is a challenging environment during the winter. When we have moisture, it is almost impossible to go back and forth across that ranch.

This last winter, we had record snow, record low temperatures, record moisture. The mosquitoes are outrageous right now. I mean, the guys are attacked all day every day by hordes of mosquitoes because of the moisture and just the environment this last year. And so we're working quickly during really the dry months to be able to conduct the investigation

as aggressively as possible, notwithstanding the fact that this is a year-round effort. I mean, it doesn't cease when the snow flies. It just takes on a little different cadence. Okay. Well, let's take a quick break and when we come back we'll talk about the wormhole portal black hole bring it on whatever we want to call it you got it perfect. Hey guys let me tell you about this subscription service that I've been working real hard

on called vigilance elite Patreon. Basically on Patreon we haven't broken up into three different tiers. We've got tier one, tier two, and tier three. Let's dive in. Our tier one patrons get all the behind the scenes footage of the Sean Ryan show. That could include behind-the-scenes photos, that could be side conversations that we have in between breaks, that could be specific questions that our patrons give us for the guest on the Sean Ryan show, and a ton of bonus content that doesn't really

fit into any specific category. For our Tier 2 patrons, they get access to our tactical training library, which consists of well over 100 videos. We've broken those videos up into separate categories, and those categories are rifle fundamentals, pistol fundamentals, drills, tactics, driving, tactics, driving, gear and weapon setups, and everybody's favorite mindset. Also on Tier 2, you will get a live update from me on the first and the 15th of every month where we talk about the upcoming guests on the Sean Ryan show. Plus Plus all the benefits of Tier 1. Our top tier, which is Tier 3, gets full access to all the other tiers. Plus they get full access to me where we do video teleconferencing VTC. Once a month we discuss anything from tactics to current events to who's coming on the show. I take suggestions and it's very interactive.

No matter what tier you choose, the support is greatly appreciated and it is the only thing that makes the show drive on. So thank you for all the support. See you on Patreon. Alright, Brandon, we're back from the break. I want to get into the triangle section of Skinwalker Ranch where they say is a possible wormhole or black hole or portal or what do you think it is? I don't know. The honest answer, I'm not sure exactly what it is, other than there is obviously an anomaly, there is something in that area, in that region, and in that airspace that causes GPS to malfunction.

I mean, when you say GPS malfunction, you're talking the GPS is telling you you were in one location, but you're actually in a, it's not a close or it just completely malfunctions and does not operate. Think about it. We've had instrumented balloon, helicopter, airplane, and advanced rocketry experiments with sensors along with drones, sophisticated drones that have all malfunctioned in that region of the property. Luna Song, who is a defense contractor,

has a very sophisticated platform in looking at that area, even saw anomalies in that region of the triangle and the mesa. There have been instances where time has been manipulated, where we've seen the region of the triangle and the mesa, there have been instances where time has been manipulated, where we've seen the time itself, there's been a shift by a quarter of a second, where The data ends up being altered or manipulated to a degree that is not easily

explainable. I mean, it is baffling to all of the experts. Everyone who comes out to the property and sees what unfolds and is scratching their heads and to have the best lidar, photogrammetry, and other experts that continuously see these strange things occur and occur somewhat simultaneous with UFO or UAP activity as well. I mean, we had a situation above the triangle where we were launching rockets, of course, one of numerous occasions. And they prominent at UAP, an identified aerial phenomenon, it's up appearing. And then what happens within minutes following the black hawk helicopter comes right over the mace and descends over the property and just hovers right over the south field. This isn't above the men.

This is right there low hover above the field south of Homestead one and the command center. This is late night Unmarked not transponding And as the men would describe it. I mean, it was a menacing presence on that property immediately following UFO citing immediately following at UFO sighting For whatever reason that region of the property that region of the triangle Which is not far away from where I saw the UFO the 40 to 50 foot long gray silveryish disc

appear and maneuver in extraordinary ways. Seems to be a hotspot. Seems to be a center of gravity for activity within an expanse of property that is hosting a diversity of incidents and activities. So that's what I think drives a lot of our investigation and a lot of the experimental activity is it's the data that we continue to gather from the triangle,

from the homesteads, from the mesa that is driving us forward. How would you, so there's been a number of events that have happened through your guys' experiments within the triangle. And it sounds like the triangle, well, it's an actual triangle on the ground. And then it seems to be some type of an invisible force field. Well, call it.

No, that region of the property, I mean, you see kind of this triangular formation, or really the triangular roadway system that kind of comes together at that point. But it does seem to be a focal point there along the Mesa Plateau. And it is a central point as you look at the ranch relative to the,

where the command center and homestead one is in relation to the homesteads out on the far west side of the property. The anomaly that we've seen, the people called the blob, but this thing that they've caught on camera, and it's not just from one point of view, it's been from multiple camera points of view and different types of recording devices, different types of cameras that have recorded this thing,

this anomaly as Travis, as Dr. Taylor would call it. Appears to disrupt the experimental activities that occur. It deflects, we've seen rockets deflected. In that area, we saw, I mean, we launched balloons, and you probably remember, early in the docu-series effort, we had a professor from the University early in the docu-series effort, we had a professor from the University of Alabama at Huntsville that came out, who is an expert, instrumented balloon, experimentalist and operator. And he, we never recovered the primary balloon,

the primary balloon they set up right above the triangle. It literally disappeared. And it disappeared right at the moment that it started registering elevated activity. When the meter started going off all of a sudden, it disappeared and it has never been recovered. And we've searched. I mean, we've conducted exhaustive searches of the area, looked at all of the surrounding property via the helicopter, even on the ground, and have never found a

trace of where that balloon could have ended up. Well, I didn't realize that you guys never found it. it seems to be that it just disappeared. From 31 feet to what, 300 feet seems to be the... Yeah, but it's transient. It's not constant. I mean, it comes and goes. There's something very unpredictable in some respects, but the fact that we've had even lasers bend, you probably remember when they were conducting

the experiments and actually had a laser pointed up and the laser was documented as bending, as essentially being deflected off a space. To this day, those who have looked at that footage, looked at that data, remained just baffled by what they've recorded. Again, the UFO sightings that have occurred above the triangle in tandem with some of these experimental activities, not only continue, but they've been prominent. I think it's not lost on anyone that the object that was seen coming out of the base of the

Mesa, that large orb or whatever, unidentified aerial phenomena that exited the mesa was not far from that region. I mean, it all is essentially interconnected. So it's an interesting center of gravity for a lot of the phenomena, and that's why we continue to launch rockets and experiments, even focus the helicopter and other craft in that area with the instrumentation. And we'll see what we are able to ultimately uncover. I think taking all of that data cumulatively and having that essentially paint a picture

or pull together this grand tapestry that we can then step back from and look at, you know, the patterns. You know, one of the things we brought on to tech on for is their artificial intelligence and machine learning capabilities. I mean, they have AI and ML patterns, or AI and ML platforms that will be able to better identify potential patterns that are occurring, that will help us, I think, weed out. I think, you know, separate this signal from the noise, separate that, which may be a

foreign adversary or even some naturally caused phenomena from something that is truly unusual. You know, so many things have happened above the triangle. And I think the first thing that I saw that really, that got me was, I believe was your brother was flying the helicopter over it. And I can't remember what altitude he was at, but it said his altimeter said he that I believe was 40 feet. Right.

It was several hundred feet. Yeah. Well, it's essentially was bouncing the radar altimeter was identifying something 40 to 50 feet below the helicopter. When he's thousands of feet up in the air, when he's 5,000 feet above the triangle. And it was tracking with the helicopter. And a lot of people have tried to either debunk or try to explain what was documented during

that exercise. There really is no, there is no satisfactory explanation for it. I mean, we've consulted with the manufacturer. I mean, he's called his resources. My brother, he has more, is over 9,000 hours of flight time. Is one of the most seasoned aviators in the region. And he knows this equipment inside out. I mean, he consults with the experts relative to how it operates and what he should expect and what is, you know, what is to really, what could be involved and there's really no explanation exactly for what occurred there. And it's disturbing. Well, after that flight, Cameron was really hesitant as to whether he wanted to come back on the property again. Really? Because just the danger associated with the instruments, with the fact that there's

something up in the air, tracking with the helicopter, that is unseen. Well, and we saw, you know, most recently, you know, the high-speed camera operator captured a big silver look like a metallic object, but some type of silver spherical object that was tracking behind the helicopter with one of the more recent exercises being conducted. And a lot of people say, oh, well, they were applying a filter because there was a filter applied in order to bring out some of the features of that a little bit more prominently. But it doesn't negate the fact that it was there. I mean, I've seen unfiltered footage of that.

And there's definitely an object. There's a round spherical object that is tracking with the helicopter during that exercise. And this is not a drone. This isn't something that we can assign some either natural cause to or point to some known technology. It seems very unusual. The other thing that really caught my attention, probably more than anything is the GPS trackers that they were dropping out of the helicopter with the streamers. And it seemed to be almost bouncing off an invisible object like they would fall like this and just bounce off of nothing.

End up in a completely different region of the ranch. Yeah, and they're being deflected off of something and that speaks to the fact that we believe that there is some anomaly. There is some irregular, whether it be an object or field or something, something that we truly can't explain, but is real that has a tangible impact on the experiments, whether it be the rockets, whether it be the sensors, the GPS, the bottle drop experiment, for example, the flame thrower, the flame thrower, it's split around nothing.

The flame turned into a horseshoe went around nothing. Yeah. I mean, the rockets, the laser beams, the lidar. Yeah, how do you explain that? The helicopter being pushed around. Yeah. The plane, I mean, it's, it's,

well, the drones, the drone, it was a 250 drones you guys lifted up. Yeah, over 200 drones, fully charged, carefully calibrated with over 20 experts from Sky Elements who conduct more of these drone exercises across the country than any other company. I mean, they are the experts. They are the gold standard left, completely baffled. And they went on record with the fact that they've never seen anything like this occur,

that their equipment completely malfunctioned in the area of the triangle and on the ranch. We're gonna be bringing them back. What do you do when you're conducting a scientific investigation when you're trying to follow the scientific method, you repeat. You repeat the experiment, you gather more data. We're trying in service to come into some conclusion or drawing a more, I think, a more accurate hypothesis. We're trying to gather more data and repeat these experiments to see if we observe similar phenomena

or other anomalies that occur. And we're active with that. At first I was hesitant to deploy the helicopter. You have a very expensive piece of equipment. I have my brother who I love. I don't want him in harm's way. But he's become much like Thomas Winterton, who when faced with danger, when faced with the risks and even having a personal

personal set of experiences dealing with this, instead of running away or deciding to sit this one out, he's saying bring it on. He's saying, you know This is this is discovery. This is frontier science discovery only only the bold end up being able to to really pierce through and To realize extraordinary results. I said earlier in our interview, I mean, in order to get extraordinary results, you have to put forth extraordinary effort. I was using that as a business reference that it takes sacrifice to get results.

And this ranch investigation is no different. I think we're all sacrificing. We're all locking arms and trying to determine the nature of what is happening. It is in a function of proving that there's something happening. That's already done. It's being able to identify the origin and the identity associated with the phenomena that drives me. And I think you can expect to see in the future hopefully some communication. I think whatever we're dealing with is highly intelligent. I will not be surprised. If at some point we are able to somehow determine how to communicate or at least see, I think, more intelligent interaction. So you think this, what do you call this?

Well, those who came before me with the big low team called it a pre-cognitive nonsense. What are they? There's a term. They refer to the phenomena at Skinwalker Ranch as a pre-cognitive, sentient, non-human intelligence. So there's an intelligence based on the data. There is an intelligence operating on that ranch that has command over space time, over consciousness,

can manipulate closed systems in a split second without leaving a trace. And I believe has the ability to communicate, if we can understand or develop a common language at some point, to be able to interact. Eric Bard, in particular, has had communication with at least one of these entities involved with manipulating the systems that has command over the technology and the platforms. And has expounded on that a bit more in the future. We're going to be discussing it on the DocuSeries this next year.

But he's definitely seen and documented evidence that we're dealing with an intelligence that does have the desire to communicate. What can you go into the communication a little bit more? Yeah, I mean in his case when he asked out of frustration for a sign when he commanded the when when the systems were being manipulated and he was dealing with security violations that were occurring repeatedly with our surveillance cameras. He literally asked verbally, out loud, if you have something to show me, show me if you have something to tell me, tell me. And in that instant, the screen morphed, melted, and digitally composed letters.

He had the presence of mine just as he did. In October, 2016, to screen capture, what was happening with his iPhone, thank heavens, he proceeded to record and screen capture in real time what was happening with the equipment and what was revealed was what I believe to be compelling evidence that we're dealing with an intelligence that is at least willing to acknowledge and wants their presence known.

Were you able to translate it into anything? Yeah, it'll be shown on television, but it essentially had the simple response, again, instantaneously of I living. You're shitting me. of issues with the security, with the security cameras registering that there was something triggering the motion sensors, that there were countless events occurring. Upon giving that command saw the entire screen morph and form the letters I living and then snap back. All documented, all called on camera.

That has yet to be fully addressed on the docu series, but is going to be addressed in the future. It's really his story to tell, but if he were here, he'd be telling you the same story. It was compelling evidence that we're dealing with an intelligence on the ranch that has the ability to manipulate technology and systems instantaneously and has the ability to communicate and has intention, there's a volition. Wow, that is, that is.

It's spooky. It is. You know, when you see the image, it's spooky. Can we display the image or do we wait for the next season? No, I think I'll give you the image. You can show it. But I think the greater story and the context

and all the circumstances will be unfolded and the related documentation. But I'd be happy to share. In fact, if you want to show it on the screen right now, I would love to. You're welcome to put it up, but it is a It is a compelling image and evidence of technology manipulation and intelligence that Transcends anything that had been documented before that'm at Skinwalker Ranch. That is definitely spooky.

I know that you had mentioned that Eric may not be fond of the camera, but I would love to interview him. No, Eric is principal investigator and chief scientist at Skinwalker Ranch resides on the property full time. Literally lives in the command center and is monitoring all of the platforms. I mean, these are proprietary platforms that he has created. I mean, Satan, which stood for Sentinel assignment,

telemetry, something node. I can't, I've got to pull it, it's been a while. And by the way, there's nothing in city, there's nothing dark. It was just a funny acronym that he pulled out of the air that actually matched up with the proper description of the platform. You know, he named the Yeah, he named the part of the surveillance platform that is capturing the events, Eve, event viewer, something extraction. He has a number of really fun names that he assigns to the various technology platforms there

at Skinwalker Ranch. And that, you know, we're preparing to deploy more technology than ever. The months ahead will turn heads, the level of sophistication and the number of sensors and really the technology that we're deploying with partners like Omnotech, I believe will reveal incredible insights in the months ahead. It's just inevitable. Can you be a little more descriptive on some of the experiments that you're going to conduct? Yeah, well, we're continuing to utilize the helicopter and other aircraft in service to documenting what is happening in the airspace, lasers.

I'd mentioned drones. I mean, drones have become an effective vehicle for at least testing the space and seeing when there are anomalies, when there are disturbances. We are going to be using, I think, you know, some more advanced techniques as far as deploying sensor technology and looking at the spectrum. You know, the 1.6 gigahertz and other frequencies in the noise floor that has been documented and unusual, that attends a lot of this experimental activity, I think, will be able to better analyze and hopefully seek out patterns that may provide insight. So not to get wonky, but I think you can expect to see

in the same way you've seen a progression since season one, for example, or the first year that we brought on Dr. Taylor and we started a more aggressive experimental activity. There's a progression that I'm observing right now that will continue in the months ahead that I believe will yield incredible results. It's inevitable. Although I have to acknowledge, Sean, I don't think we're in control. With all humility, we are not in control. Whatever we are dealing with, whatever we are interacting with,

at SkinWonker Ranch appears to be several steps ahead of us and has such advanced capabilities that it's important that we address it with humility and reverence. I think a lot of this is being revealed because it wants to be revealed. And I know that may sound hokey, but I believe that certain things are probably being manifest and shown to us as a result of our stewardship and working to sincerely engage the phenomena. I'm just curious, I have an idea. So I'm going to throw it out there. Have you guys used water at all?

Have you seen the, I'm sorry, I forget the name, the phenomenon above the triangle? Have you seen it the, I'm sorry, I forget the name, but the phenomenon above the triangle. If you've seen it rain, snow, if you try to put water on it to see if you can maybe get some type of a shape to be revealed. No, I think that's a great idea. I think using that, using smoke, using other approaches. I mean, we're just, we're trying everything.

I mean, when you saw a flame thrower being employed, I you know that we're trying to think outside of the box, but I think that's a great idea. I think using water is going to be an important, probably an important approach. I like it. Anything. Right now, whatever we have to do to understand the anomaly above the ranch and whatever we

can do in a responsible way, engage the phenomena and understand what is happening. I'm all for it. I would love to see that, but it's going to be fun. I can't wait. It's an exciting process, sometimes frustrating. I mean, there are days, sometimes weeks where it seems like nothing is happening. There are experiments that are conducted. Elabrid experiments that at first glance seem to yield nothing of interest. And then upon further review, interesting things are identified and brought out of the data. I think it's important for all of us to realize that our senses, what we see with our eyes, what we hear, we're

only taking in a very small percentage of the overall spectrum of activity that is happening around us. And I think using the right type of analysis, equipment to analyze the environment, well, and increasing those capabilities will be more important in the future. It's kind of like you have to have the right lens to see this through. And we may be applying the wrong type of lens.

We may be there may be an approach that will suddenly reveal everything on the ranch or at least make it more clear. Peel back the curtain so we can see who the wizard of Oz really is. And I'm prepared for the truth. I don't really care who or what it is. I just want to understand the nature of it, what we are dealing with. I can handle the truth. Even if it's a foreign adversary, let's say for example, let's speculate that this is some foreign adversary, that it's another country, that is somehow using the basin in this area as a testing ground

and they're testing all sorts of advanced technologies in service to warfare in the future, whatever. Identifying who those actors are and how they're using that technology and how it works. Tell me that that's not important. I mean, from a national security standpoint, what we're doing out there is extremely important. Yeah. And bringing my omni-tech team on board and having them engage. They're out there right now. As we sit here speaking, they are present. They are on the ranch with the team, conducting research and experimental activities. They've said, look, if this ends up being another country that is somehow deploying these kind of technologies that can literally manipulate closed systems in this fashion and create

all of these types of effects and anomalies, then we're... We have reason for concern. Yeah. Back to I find that. I find that more terrifying. If there's a bad actor, a known adversary that has access to technology and is using this as a proving ground, the implications are staggering. Yeah. You know, this just popped in my head when the UAPs flew into the Mesa

and then out of the Mesa, do you, are these solid objects? Do you believe they're solid objects? Or are they, is this some type of a... Good question. What I saw was like a solid object. So the UFO that I saw above the Mesa looked like a solid object.

In fact, it had kind of a reflective property. I remember those, you know, with even the witnesses mentioned that, you know, it seemed to be a very solid object with reflective properties. So the, I remember the sun going down on the other side of the property, and it seemed to be reflecting. The UAP that you're referring to, the most recent that came down from the sky dropped into the mason, the east field, and then second slater is seen exiting the base of the mason

below the helicopter. Yes. It is definitely transmedium. For what people refer to as a transmedium, unidentified aerial phenomena, is it solid, does it take solid form when it exits? Who knows? The nature of these objects of these technologies that are being deployed, it's elusive. But it

definitely has an impact on the instruments. I mean, when we see, when we see some of this activity occurring, you see the spectrum analyzer is going crazy. Our spectrum analyzer platforms are recording and documenting all sorts of strange readings that accompany a lot of this activity, especially when we go back on a way to review the footage and we time stamp everything and we draw direct connection between the activity, the spectrum analyzer results, and what is visually documented. I think we've covered just about everything. There's one more thing I want to cover.

It's, we had a discussion last night about faith. And I shared my journey with you and you had mentioned that I believe I asked you how this has affected your faith. And you had mentioned that since you've owned the ranch, it has actually strengthened your faith. Yeah. Shockingly. How was, I'm not familiar with the Church of Latter-day Saints. I did a little bit of research and it sounds like,

how do I describe this? It sounds like the Earth is not the center of the universe and you don't believe that we are the only beings in the universe. Correct. Sean, I was raised to believe that there are worlds without number that were not alone in the universe. Mormon theology speaks to the fact that we're not alone in the universe, that we're part

of a divinely constructed, intelligently designed reality. There's a higher power that the nature of reality and really are place in the universe is much more complex than we can even comprehend at this stage of our evolution. What I have seen at Skinwalker Ranch, what we are documenting, has only strengthened what I was raised to believe that we really aren't alone, that there is something more at play here. And it could be interdimensional or multi-dimensional. I mean anyone who believes in an afterlife, if you believe that your consciousness or your soul or spirit or whatever you want to call it, survives after your body is destroyed or you die. Congratulations. I think you believe in a multi-dimensional, you believe in interdimensional theory. And in that, that physics. And I think that

what we're seeing at the ranch could very well be partially interdimensional in origin and nature. And people ask me all the time, is what you are documenting? Is it ET? Is it extraterrestrial? People from other worlds? Is it interdimensional or multi-dimensional phenomena? Is it time travelers? Or is it interdimensional or multi-dimensional phenomena, is it time travelers, or is it spiritual? Is it angels and demons from other realms? And the veil between this world and those realms of existence or reality is very thin for whatever reason out there, which is it? And my answer honestly is all the above. Right now, the data seems to point toward

a diversity of origins, agendas. And I don't think you can describe these events that to any one phenomenon or any one point of origin. I think there's a lot of things happening for whatever reason that seem to be converging on this property. And the veil could be thin between this world and spiritual realms or this world and other worlds. There may be a portal or a wormhole to other worlds, to other planets that for whatever reason it occurs on this property, there could be a stargate You know buried in the mesa That enables and interstellar highway to exist above and even below this property Something is happening as above so below

We're observing phenomena that continues to defy conventional explanation. Do we make mistakes? Once in a while from time to time, our things misidentified. Absolutely. That's part of the process. That's part of learning.

This is an imperfect process. This is iterative where we are trying desperately to separate the signal from the noise. Separate that which has a mundane natural cause or explanation from that which truly merits further consideration and may be unusual or extraordinary. And my goal is to get the answers and share those answers with everyone. Well, this is one of the most fascinating interviews I've ever done. And I got one last question. You bring on. Do you ever see yourself selling skin walker brands?

Never. Never. Be a pass down to generations. Or put in trust. I have no interest in selling the property. I have no interest in monetizing it. My only interest is in getting answers. And I hope to continue to demonstrate that I am a worthy steward, that I am worthy of

that knowledge that my team is worthy of insights that will hopefully be realized. Well, I wanna say one other thing too. And I just, on top of everything that you're doing, and it is amazing, and I think a lot's gonna come out of it and I can't wait to see the future, what the future holds for you and Schemlock or Ranch, but I really wanna commend you. When I found out that you are not monetizing and every bit of profit that would have been coming to you is going to charity.

And it goes to sign to other causes and to strengthen the effort. That's just, that's, nobody does that. That's amazing. Well, I think intention is important, having pure sincere intention, behind any effort will hopefully yield the best results. And I'm very fortunate to have a lot of success in other areas of my life, other professional endeavors that help subsidize this whole project and my other

pretentious lifestyle priorities. I mean, I like nice things. I've never been driven by money ever, but I am that guy who at 12 years old had the black Lamborghini Kuntosh poster on his wall in my little windowless basement, bedroom, I think I had like an eight by eight little windowless basement bedroom. In fact, I've got a picture of it. I'll share it with you. And on that wall is a black Lamborghini Kuntosh that I just loved and I have my drum set and my keyboards and my

ninjasword and my dungeons and dragons books and friends gathered dreamers that they're all trying to make sense of this world and and I'm still that kid at heart and I'm hoping that in the same way that I wasn't trying to employ any calculus or had any weird agenda other than just doing cool stuff. I hope that the years ahead for me and for all of those around me are exciting, are insight rendering. You have a very unique megaphone. In the spirit of transparency and collaborating with like-minded individuals with integrity, I welcome you to the ranch and would love to bring you out for a full briefing. You can be the judge and meeting with the team, looking at the data. And you may have some insights. It's not that you don't have experience,

battlefield experience. You have, I believe, probably some special insights to render that could help us with respect to engaging the phenomena. So I look forward in the future to welcoming you out. I mean that sincerely. You have my commitment if you're interested. They would be my honor.

Thank you. And look forward to having you meet the team and having you tell the general public with no strings attached what you see and what you were able to witness. Well, I will definitely be out there. So thank you. Look forward to it. Thank you for fighting the good fight. Thank you for for being a true patriot and know that you have you have brothers in arms out there in the basin that are seeking truth and look forward to championing these

efforts to the next level. Well thank you for everything you're doing and and thank you for being here today. It's it's been a real honor. I can't wait to see what comes. Onward. Thank you. Makes a little sports analysis, pop culture, and great interviews, and you've got the Rich Eyes and Show Podcast. The jets are bracing themselves into doing hard knocks this year. Impraising themselves. Look, the coaches want to control the controllables. They don't want to have a camera crew in the building. You know, I know that they want to lie low.

This is what happens when you go and swing for the fences and get out of Rogers. Are you kidding me? The Rich Eyes and Show Podcast. Wherever you listen.