Shawn Ryan Show - #81 Sarah Adams - CIA Targeter Exposes How Hamza bin Laden is Alive | Part 1

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

This episode is a follow up to our investigation into the Benghazi attacks with Mark Geist. Sarah Adams is a former CIA Targeter with a wealth of experience leading intelligence initiatives during the Global War on Terror. In part one of this two part series, Adams gives us an overview of what it's like to run targeting and intelligence operations for the U.S. She also outlines the power structures of different terrorist groups around the world and how they continue to operate today. Adams also covers the growing threats in Afghanistan after the United States withdrawal and what Americans should be concerned about in a post-war world. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://lairdsuperfood.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://goldco.com/ryan | 855-936-GOLD #goldcopartner https://puretalk.com/ryan https://bubsnaturals.com/shawn - USE CODE "SHAWN" Sarah Adams Links: LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahadams IG - https://www.instagram.com/askarimediagroup Website - https://askarimediagroup.com Book - https://www.amazon.com/Benghazi-Know-Enemy-Sarah-Adams/dp/B0BHMV2Q8S Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My next guest is a former CIA analyst and targetter who now currently works for the U.S. Department of Defense. Now, originally, my goal with this episode was to expound on the Benghazi episode with Mark Geiss and unpack some of the things that went on behind the scenes where the ball was dropped and to talk about what the terrorists behind that attack

are doing now. Now we actually got a lot more than that in this episode and some questions that are arising, especially very recently, what the things going on in Israel have been answered. One of those questions is are terrorists coming up through our southern border. Well, here's the answer. Yes, I know that's a shocker to some of you, but Sarah, my next guest who's been tracking these guys for many years, is now tracking them coming up through our southern border. That's what happens when you leave a border wide open to a country who has a lot of enemies. Now we're going to have to deal with this at some point. But if you get anything out of this episode, please like, comment, and subscribe, head over

to Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Please leave us a review. Ladies and gentlemen, I just want to point something out. Why is Mainstream media not talking to people like my next guest? Think about that Nobody is more relevant on this topic than her. She's tracking these guys coming up through our border. Anyways, those of you that have been taking our content,

thank you, we see the reels you're making. If you want, you can download tons of free content. Link is in the description, posted everywhere, monetize it, make money, all we ask, is that you tag the Sean Ryan show. Anyways, Patreon, I love you, ladies ladies and gentlemen without further ado. Please welcome Sarah Adams former CIA analyst and targetter to the Sean Ryan show

Love you all. Cheers Sarah Adams, welcome to the Sean Ryan show. Thank you. Great to be here. So we've been batting back and forth for I think a little over a year now and then I wanted to get Mark in here before I got your interview. We had Mark in last, we released his episode last week about Benghazi and I really wanted to get into some of the stuff that the Obama administration had to do with the teams that could have gone in and helped. And you know a lot more about that than Mark.

So I think you're the perfect person to kind of fill in the gaps there. But and then on top of that, we got a whole bunch of other stuff to talk about, current day stuff, some of your career at the agency, but let me give you a quick introduction. So Sarah Adams, author of Bengazi, No Thy Enemy, former CIA officer Libyan crisis before, during and after the 9-11 attacks,

counterterrorism analysts and target for the CIA senior advisor on the Select Committee on Benghazi. So just for the audience real quick, can you go over the difference between an analyst at CIA and a target? Yeah, I mean the most simple thing as an analyst, their day-to-day job, is to answer the questions policymakers give. So maybe a congressman asks a CIA, what is happening with the oil facilities in Libya, for example, and they'll pull all the info together,

the CIA collected, write it up, and answer that question. Obviously, they're most known for answering questions to the president. The targetter was created. It's a newer position. It was created around the time I joined the agency. And it was to bridge the gap between case officers and analysts.

So it was supposed to be like an operational node that took the best from analysts, took the best from targetters, and helped move operations forward. So the focus of it is to move operations forward. Okay. Okay. So I got a couple questions.

We have a subscription network on Patreon, and that's basically what enables me to do this job. Okay. And so this was a pretty good question from one of our patrons. What was the moment that made you realize that the government was going to lie about what happened in Benghazi? How did this make you feel?

Was this a revelation to you or had you seen similar things like this happen before Benghazi? Sure. There's kind of like two big lies, obviously to do with Benghazi. There is the one of the fake protest narrative and then the one of the fake that the GRS responded immediately.

So the GRS was our global response staff. So that's what Oz was that was on your show previously and they're the ones who went to aid the ambassador after the attack happened. That one, I pretty much knew in real time, they were covering it out because the team lead for the GRS in Tripoli, like whispered it to me when I arrived back in Tripoli after the attacks.

And I was like, okay, this is already a hush-ush thing. He told me it outside. I already had the indication that CIA was gonna cover that piece up. The protest narrative, it was about a week after the attacks, we got the two consulate surveillance videos in, so it was the video from the state compound, and then the video from the CIA compound.

And we obviously saw there was no protest, which nobody in country thought there's a protest anyway. No one in Libya believed there was a protest, nobody in town reported a protest, but when we watched the Libya believed there was a protest. Nobody in town reported a protest. But when we watched the videos, there was no protest. We call headquarters and they said, well, we're not going to change the narrative until you bring us the videos. And so they said, oh, you need to carry them back over.

We actually found a way to digitally send them. So we sent them within 24 hours and they never changed the narrative. They didn't. No. So that's when I realized, okay, the narrative is what they want. They don't actually care if there's facts whether there's a protest or not. How did that make you feel? Oh, it was pretty angry.

And luckily, our chief of station at the time, he agreed there was no protest because there wasn't one. It's so strange. In country, we didn't argue about a protest, right? Nobody thought there was a protest. It was a weird DC thing. We didn't sit around arguing about a protest. We were doing our jobs.

We were trying to find the attackers, trying to figure out who was involved. So he would write a sense to like all the CA, right all those reports about the protest and he would send a sense. Chief of station Tripley does not agree with this, pretty, so there was not a protest. So that's really all we could do from the field is,

because the field sometimes gets overruled by what headquarters thinks is the truth. Yeah, yeah. You know, you've been following, you still continue to follow a lot of these guys that were involved in the attack and we're gonna get into some of that and what the outcome was with some of them.

I mean, has there been any justice at all? There's been a little bit of justice. There was some of our attackers killing you as drone strikes. Only one of them was targeted for who he was, but he wasn't targeted to do with Benghazi. He was targeted to do with ISIS. The other ones, they targeted the wrong group or they got lucky and got our guy.

The French did kill the top three, like North African al-Qaeda members of our attacks. So we got a little bit of justice from them. And then the Libyan National Army killed the mass to mine of the CIA and X-piece of the attack. And the good part is he killed him in a mortar strike. So we kind of appreciate that. Nice, good. I for an eye, right? Hey, take him out that way. There's no other way you could have that. Nice, good. I for a night, right?

Hey, take them out that way. There's no other way you could have taken him out, honestly. Yeah, no kidding. Well, hey, before we get two into the weeds, and dive in, everybody always gets a gift. Oh, thank you. So there you go. Okay.

Very nice and good. It's all coffee, too, because I had to confirm with you that there was nothing with pot in any of these things. Okay. Very nice and good. It's all coffee too, because I had to confirm with you that there was nothing with pot in any of these things. Yeah, no pot. There's some weird rumors. Everybody thinks. Wait, wait, you gave me performance mushrooms.

This probably can't do this. Oh no, this is good stuff. Okay, okay. These are legal mushrooms, but you've, have you heard a lot of the benefits from mushrooms that have been going on in the veteran community? No, I haven have you heard a lot of the benefits from mushrooms that have been going on in the better community? So I did a psychedelic treatment.

It got a ton of benefits from it. Yeah, a ton of blackwater people have been doing this. Yeah, huge. It's really getting out there, and so that kind of got me into looking into the benefits of functional mushrooms and all that stuff's from the layered superfood. They have the finest ingredients. And yeah, perfect. So mix that with your coffee, don't?

Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna first show Delta Chack I can have mushrooms and then I'm gonna mix it and my coffee. You are good to go with that, I promise. Thank you. But it's all about brain health here. So that's why I give that out. But all right, so let's get into it.

You ready? Yep. All right, so let's talk about how you got into the agency. What year did you go? I joined in 2006 and I have the most boring route ever into the agency. I applied online. It works, people. Yeah, it was the night before I defended my thesis in college.

And my thesis was on the Kashmir region of India and Pakistan. And I was like, why did I do a thesis on this? Like, where am I going to get a job? I had never even thought a CIA, even a day before then. But it was the only place I could think of it to apply. So that night, I applied to the CIA. And then the rest of the history. How did you, I mean,

did you say I'm in a recruiting event or anything? I seriously was like, like the next day I had to defend my thesis so I had all my notes and like, I don't really like to prepare for things as you probably learned in the last day here. So I was just kind of like not wanting to get things ready for the next day and so my I was just kind of like not wanting to get things ready for the next day.

And so my brain was wandering off. And then I was like, what am I going to do for a job? And then I was like, who works cash me? And the only thing I think it was the CAA. So I went along and applied that night. And yeah, that's how my life works. That's how I live my whole life. So it's gonna be surprised by this. This wasn't just because I was in my 20s. How long did it take him to get back with you? My first interview was the first week of December. It was super quick. Oh, OK.

Yep. So it's five weeks. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I get people asking me all the time online. How do I get in there? How do I get into the CIA? And it's like, well, did you look at the employment

section on the website? That might be a good start. They'll think it's like everybody gets recruited. I know. It's like, well, did you look at the employment section on the website? That might be a good start. They'll think it's like everybody gets recruited. It's hilarious. I know, you have an application in. Yeah. That did you put the application in online? No, they have a website.

They do have a website. And it's proven, it works. You might not work that well over there if you haven't figured that out yet. But, but anyway, so we have, I would like to talk about 2008 in Mumbai. So we're talking about some drone strikes that happened. Can you go into some of that stuff at your first, that was your first station, correct? No, so I was actually at headquarters when Mumbai happened.

So I had gone overseas at that point I had been to Pakistan, but I was actually home in the States when Mumbai happened And you know this is mentioned briefly in my book and that's why it comes up So when Mumbai happened it was really interesting as you can imagine Congress reaches out the CIA and they say what are you gonna going to do about this big event? Hold on, hold on. Let's go back. What was the event in Mumbai? So in Mumbai, there was like a terrorist attack

by Lashkar Yatayiba. That's a Pakistani-based terrorist group. They did it at a few different locations in Mumbai, which is like the second largest city in India. And they did it at like a hotel hotel and it killed a very large number of people. And so as you can imagine, the CIA at the time had a lot of stuff going on in Pakistan,

since that was the focus of the global war on terror at the time. And so there was a lot of pressure then going back on CIA, like, hey, what are you going to do about these attackers? Because the Indians were saying, it all emanated from Pakistan, and you know, you're in Pakistan, and that's your focus. And, you know, what are you going to do going forward on this?

So I was on the team that covered, I think that was the actually only person on that terrorist group at the time. I mean, the Pakistan terrorist groups just don't get a lot of focus. Why is that? I don't know. I think it's because they don't all do things with al-Qaeda. Okay.

So if they then eventually join up with al-Qaeda, so there is a really famous one named Ilya Skashmiri. And he, I mean, he was a bad guy, ukulee, bad, his whole career, but then at one point he said, I'm going to start doing my attacks with Al Qaeda. Then he became a talk target, and then I don't think he even lived a year. You know, because he then moved over to that realm, and Al Qaeda was our focus.

Okay. You know, it's like Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda, you know, maybe TTP, maybe Talphan, and then the Pakistan tear groups were not even on the list. Okay. Yeah, so they just weren't prioritized at all. So what happened is Congress then came to CIA and said, do something about it. And in my shop, my boss had decided to actually just choose a random terrorist camp and say it was last

great Taiba and have his character drum strike on it. So what she did, so the one negative is and this is what I don't like when stuff gets released like out into the public and there's redactions and then they assume it stuff right. There's a lot of garbage that comes in the CA, as you can imagine. So we get a lot of reports on locations and it's not the right group and then we run it down and we find out the right group. So there was garbage reporting that they were at that place, but they never were, right? We ran it down and we weren't. But what she wanted me to do is write up a report with the garbage reporting to justify the strike on the location. So I refused to.

And then I said, I'll write up a report. So I wrote a whole report on why every piece of that information was wrong that they'd ever use that location. I submitted it to her. So I submitted to her like on a Friday. So the next week I went to a week of training. So you know, most CIA trainings offsite. So I was offsite in a different part of town. And it was the end of that next week.

And I go out to my phone. We don't have phones in the office. And I have a message. And it's like, you need to see what's being sent around. And I go. And she went to another person on her team. She actually went to a DOD detail because she thought

she could get the Department of Defense person to lie because the CIA person pushed back on her, unfortunately. And she wrote it up for a nomination to do a strike on the location knowing all the facts were wrong because I had already sent out a week before to the team. And so then I think I saw Thursday night. So Friday morning I sent it to all the team. And so it then I think I saw at Thursday night. So Friday morning, I sent it to all the leaders. I was in the counterterrorism center. And so I sent it to all

the leaders across our four branches and then the two bosses above them. And luckily, my senior boss, who he's pretty famous, he was like the main analyst boss on the Somal bin Laden raid. So he's like in the movie and stuff or on Zero Dark 30. He luckily said, okay, I'm gonna sign something to investigate this. And so he luckily investigated it and then they shot it down and they didn't do the strike. So that was really good. What was really bad though is I didn't go high enough

and I learned that at that point. So I complained to my bosses, they did the right thing, which you want them to do. But I never gave it to the IG or anything. And maybe a couple years later, I found out she was one of our bosses in our Yemen drone shop. Right? I mean, that's very dangerous.

I mean, she was willing to lie about a location in Pakistan to appease a congressperson asking us to do something. and unfortunately, if you don't say something about those people, they get promoted up. I mean, that's a big problem in the government anywhere as you've seen. There was a ton of drone strikes in Yemen. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

And you have to like nominate those. You kind of don't just come in like, let's hit this location today. So that's what we were doing at that time right we were giving the nomination to then approve it So then the CIA would do it makes you wonder how many of those drone strikes were legit. Oh, yeah I've had a lot of questions about Yemen They have no way. At least under her watch Yeah, no kidding. How long was she and Yemen doing that for I mean usually rotate for two or three years to a job That CIA so what what is the point of? What's she and Yemen doing that for? I mean, usually rotate for two or three years to a job at CIA.

So what is the point of, what does she get out of this? I mean, so she makes what, Congress happy? What is, I know. What is the point? I honestly didn't understand the point of it. I mean, I guess she did get a promotion. Was that the point? Yeah, but she was in a CIA long enough

to where she was gonna get a promotion anyway. I know this sounds Yeah, but she was in a CA long enough to where she was going to get a promotion anyway. I know this sounds depressing, but you know, in the government, you go to a point, and they move you to the next level, unfortunately, even if you're good or not. So yeah, I really don't get it. I feel like every time, though, I've seen somebody do the wrong thing,

there's not a logical reason, right? Because a normal person wouldn't do that, right? It's like an irrational actor. Like how do you get to the level? Because you wouldn't have thought of doing it. I mean, maybe it's just a thought, well, they're terrorists anyway. Yeah.

But, you know, they're still, they're still laws, right? I mean, we still need to have some sort of justification, obviously. How many times do you think that was going on just in? Luckily, I don't think it happened a lot in Pakistan, because a lot of things were nominated out of my office, and there was really good people there who did the right thing. But, you know, it did make me nervous. She decided to go to the DOD person, because the DOD does a lot of drone strikes.

And I was like, it's odd, she picked, we had a big team, like 12, 14 people. I was like, it's odd, she picked the one department of defense person that she thought would put it out. That made me concerned. Yeah, picking on the most junior vulnerable. And does that mean like, yeah, because DoD does it? Yeah.

Man, it's, you know, we were kind of talking about it off camera, but it's time goes on. I am just with the stuff that comes out and the stuff that I learned doing this show is, it's alarming, man. I just, I don't talk much about money or the economy, but let's face it, ignoring it doesn't help

either. Because I believe the government screws up all the time. I think they let down veterans, ship jobs overseas, they help their rich friends make even more money, it is insane. Do you really think they care about helping us out with our money? I don't think so. That's one of the reasons why a lot of folks are stepping away from the government run systems, and starting to diversify their money into real assets like gold and silver.

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Just go to puretalk.com slash Ryan and make the switch. Let's rally together and show our unwavering support to our veterans. Visit puretalk.com slash Ryan and switch to pure talk today. It's the right move and it's the American way. There's so much to dive into and it doesn't paint a pretty picture for what we've been doing. But um... Yeah, I mean, the thing is, you always have to have good people that step up and do the right thing. And if you don't have those people, then no one's ever going to do it. You know, and that's a really big problem in the government.

And then those people get into these awkward situations, right? Like, I was in a really tough spot after that. Like, she was going to write me up. She actually did a lot of things against me. She canceled, like, a TDI had to a war zone, which made me look really bad. Even the right up, she started the right up for me, and then I ended up getting like a positive review from the president's briefer on something I said, and she said, oh, I can't do it now because you got this review. But yeah, it actually affected my career for a short time

because she was then using it against me, you know, for the next probably year or so. And then finally, I got out from her office. But that's the thing in the CIA. A lot of people don't understand is there's not really a human resources department. The only person who can guide your career is your current boss, and that's it.

So they're the one who helps you get to another job. So they tell that person, yeah, a taker, she's great. And they help promote you, or they say don't take her. They help you get into the training courses you need, or they say don't let her into that training course. And so it's all those personalities can really affect your career as you can imagine. You can get really held back for things. Yeah. Yeah.

Let's talk about Pakistan. When you were informed of the coast bombing in December 2009 can't chap men attack. It was a double agent, suicide bomber, seven CIA personnel killed. I had friends killed in that. Yeah, I know. You too. Do you know a lot about what went on there? Yeah, I mean, the crazy part is, well, the day I found out that you first bringing up, I was in another city in Pakistan

and I flew in and I just came to the office. So I knew nothing, right? Because it's not like we share things as you know over your cell phones when you're in the CIA. So I go into the office and my boss calls me in and I was like, oh gosh, I mean, I was always getting in trouble for going over his head on something. So I'm like, what did I do? Well, I was down for a week. So he calls me in and I'm like, oh gosh, getting ready to defend myself. And he's like, hey, just you know, and then he told me it happened.

So the thing was is they've been planning that for a while and it was actually supposed to be in a shower. It was the asset who chose to move it to coast, which obviously already is a warning sign, right? So if you think about it, it was actually the people make an Pakistan planning at the entire time and the last minute, it shifted over to Afghanistan and then the Afghanistan CIA personnel got involved.

So they even ended it, they joined at kind of the end of the whole planning, right? So it was gonna be a Pakistan and it moved. So yeah, basically what happened, it was a Ruse, it was Akhada and TTP, which a lot of people ignore TTP. Even this last year it's been so powerful. It's always been an ally with Akhada.

Akhada uses them in joint attacks and people kind of like ignore that fact. So the two groups got together and said, hey, we're gonna make this ruse. We're gonna do a double agent and end up being a double Jordanian agent who then the Jordanians gave to the CIA. So it's kind of like a triple agent.

And, you know, we're gonna use him. We're gonna base, like late tell them he's a doctor that is doing something for Zawar Hiri and is gonna go need to see Zawar Hiri. So Dr. Ivan Alzawar Hiri was a head of al-Qaeda at the time. So as you can imagine, well, he was a deputy, so I had deputy. So you can imagine this is the number two

most important terrorist in the CIA. And now we got an agent that basically says, oh, I'm a doctor that has to go see him for a medical thing. So it was a huge deal. It was probably the biggest operation at the time in the CIA. And then unfortunately, the whole plan was for him

to commit a suicide attack against the CIA during his meeting. And that's what he did. And that's how we lost the seven officers. But, you know, it's something to keep in mind though. A lot of people lose sight of the fact that Zower Heary is an operational planner. He gets sold all the time as like,

oh, he was like a doctor and he's like a religious scholar. That guy was involved in planning 9-11. He was involved in planning post. He led Benghazi, and he gets ignored all the time. And to be honest, until I see Akhada eulogized him, I'm having a hard time believing he's dead. Because he does ruses. He plays games.

He knows how to mess with us, and he's dangerous. Yeah. So where is he? Do you think? Well, supposedly last summer, we killed him in a drone strike and cobble. So what seems to have happened is, and all this really kind of lines up.

So he was staying at a house owned by Sriracha Dean Hakanie and Sriracha Dean Hakanie, and Sriracha Dean Hakanee and the Hakanees have long been suspected of probably being the people who housed Zahar Hiri, the whole time he was in Waziristan, as you can imagine, because they had such a power base there. So anyway, he goes to Kabul reportedly, and he's in this house of Hakanees, and then the CIA struck it, and he was killed then. But now it's been, what, 14 months and Al-Qaeda has yet to eulogize him officially.

Interesting. Interesting. Where do you think he might be? I don't know. I think he's still likely dead. It's very odd that they haven't eulogized him. And they also never fake eulogized people. So I'm just kind of like, well,

I don't think a fake one's gonna come out, but why isn't the real one come out? But how long does it usually take for them to eulogize somebody? I mean, they usually do it before they name the next leader. I mean, they have not publicly named who the next leader is, even though they've chosen who the de facto leader is, but the next leader is, even though they've chosen who the de facto leader is, but the weird part is, the leader is also the strange de facto.

So it's like sci-fi model. But they're like, well, he kind of leads the military side of al-Qaeda. And then, Bin Laden's son is still alive. So the US reported him being killed in 2019. So Homs had been lawdened. They aired to So Homs had been lawdened, the heir to, or some have been lawdened, is alive in Afghanistan too. But he doesn't want to be the leader of al Qaeda. So it's unclear what role he's playing.

So yeah, so al Qaeda hasn't actually made clear like this is our amir, which is interesting. So hold on, we reported Ben Laden's son was killed in 2019. Correct. When did we or you find out that he was still alive? Last September, his brother came to Afghanistan to visit him. How do. All right. I'll stop asking questions. Love that conversation off camera. Now I gotta read, hold on. Now I gotta just read just my thoughts because I love to dive into that.

But let's go to, let's go to January 2010, led the capture of Mula Abdul-Ghani Breiter. Did I say that correct? Yes. So I mean, again, if you've seen my book, this is known. Moolaborator as everyone now knows,

he basically made the whole piece deal that turned Afghanistan over to the Taliban. So back in 2009, I started targeting him and we captured him in 2018. The really interesting part is he had really good off-sec. To where, like, I wanted to capture him, but I was like, I don't think, like even if he got on a phone,

he was on it like a minute, you know? And I even had a senior boss of the Deputy Chief of Station one time like stopped me in one of our big meetings that we had weekly and he said, Sarah, why are you still briefing this? You're never gonna get muller-barator on a phone. Like, he's done it in front of the whole station, right? And it's like, it's like I knew I probably wouldn't. And as you know how life is, so it's funny,

the people who collect signals intelligence, even the guy that was supposed to do it for us did not believe my phones were braiders. And he actually was refusing to collect on them and then a my of all people from the bin Laden raid like stepped in and was like, you need to collect, I don't give a damn what you think. We're the CIA, she was really funny and she defended me.

But I don't think he actually collected it. So how it works in the CIA is you always do side things. So I had someone in another location collecting the phones for me. So I was in another city in Pakistan and coming back to Islamabad and that person calls me. And she said, you won't believe it. Brader phone is up, but it's been up like your whole flight. And I said, that doesn't make any sense.

She's like, yeah, it hasn't turned off. And I said, that doesn't make any sense. She's like, yeah, it hasn't turned off. And I said, how weird. And I said, keep me in the loop. I'm going to see if we can get a capture going. And so I went to the leaders in Islamabad. And the crazy part was, did you even hear about the COS conference? I didn't. OK, there's this time of the year. I know it's hopefully the time

changes every year that they all get together and have a big meeting. So we had no leaders. Our top three were gone and then the leader, the chief of base from where he was located was gone. So the only boss there was our chief of liaison at the time. So I went and said, hey, I need to get a team to go capture Brainer. He's like, let me think about it. And I was like, oh my gosh. So I didn't even go back and ask him. So I went down to where the team sit.

And I said, hey, I need two guys to go to Karachi. And they said, yeah, we got like two in the horror. We'll move them from that. And then I booked a flight. And I went straight down there. And then I booked a flight and I went straight down there. And then, so I'm traveling, right? And I'm checking in with this girl and she's like, the phone is still on and I was like, no way.

Well, at first, we assumed he lived in Karachi, which he ended up doing and that's where our capture was, but the phone's in Kweta. So I said, okay, let's just capture him in Kweta. The phone's up in Kweta. Why would we wait till he comes to Karachi? So I just cash him in Kweta. The phone's up in Kweta. Why would we wait till he comes to Karachi? So I called the boss in Kweta and did you ever see, like, God in 60 seconds and he had Eleanor?

Uh-huh. So, like, it was the car he never could get and something always went wrong with it. So our boss in Kweta had a terrace like that. He was like a deputy shadow governor for Hellman. He was like the shadow governor for a really famous Taliban commander named Moolinayin Burich. I think his name was like Tahir Shah. And he was in town that day. And this guy tried to get Tahir Shah every time he was in town. We probably should do like see how much money we've wasted on capturing this guy because we failed every time. So of course we call him, he's like,

tar shots in town. And I said, dude, I'm saying berater. And he's like, I don't think it's really berater. He's like, I'm gonna go for tar shot. And then I'll go for berater if we don't get shot. So they spent the half first half of the day going for the guy he's never been able to get. And they didn't get him. And then berater moves. So then, you know, my friends like, he's driving, he's never been able to get and they didn't get him and then Breater moves. So then, you know, my friends, like, he's driving, he's going home to Karachi and I'm like, yes. So at this time, I've already decided. I said, this is his kid. There's no way Breater rode to another city with his phone and rode back. So I said, his kid has a phone. Now we can only capture him at home. Because, you know, you know, I'm gonna pick some kid up at

like a restaurant or something. So we waited till the phone went back and then it went back to the exact neighborhood we thought he loved him. And then we did the capture operation. So we just got really lucky. His kids stole old phone out of the closet and brought on a trip with his dad.

And this is the co-founder of the Taliban. Yeah, he was number two at the time of the Taliban, but he is one of the founders. Yeah. How old was he? Maybe 55. It's really hard to tell. Yeah.

But I give it about 55. So how long? What is the process like when you want to do a strike or a capture? Well, luckily because he was number two of the Taliban, we had approvals to capture him. So we'd already gone to lawyers and got like the top 10 of the Taliban.

So that's what we had at the time. We had a list of 10 Taliban people we were allowed to capture. So I didn't have to go ask any permissions to capture him. So then usually you go to your COS and get approval. Well, my COS and get approval. Well, my COS was gone. COS is chief of station.

That will be the head agency officer in charge of the entire country. Oh, yeah. So I would go to him, especially at that high of a capture and ask his permission, but he wasn't there. And the number two wasn't there. And number three wasn't there. And number four wasn't going to give me an answer.

So then I just went straight to where Brader lived and then that COB was gone and she was replaced by like a friend of mine. And so he's like, let's do it. So yeah, so we really got no approvals because nobody was in country. So yeah, that's how we got Brader. How long does it normally take?

Let's say they're not on the top 10 list. Oh, if they're not on the top 10 list, you actually have to go to the CIA lawyers and get approvals, and that could take months. Months. If you've never got approval to go after a guy, yeah. What are your strikes usually? Are they captures? Are they drone strikes?

Are they send it in teams? Depends on what you're working. So I was working Taliban, so we don't really have lethal approvals on Taliban. Maybe we had a Maloma. So we had to capture Taliban. Because remember, the government still called them a political group. They wanted terrorist organization.

So we weren't really allowed to put Taliban like under a drone strike, but we really couldn't anyway. They were in Kweta Khrachi Peshawar. You know, it wasn't like they were in Wasiristan. Yeah. Al Qaeda, most of those targets, obviously the attempt was drone strikes because of the locations of the country they were in.

But if they were in the subtle areas, obviously like a horrorore or something, you'd have to capture them. Okay, so is a target or you're attached to a certain group? Correct. Okay. Or it can depend. So you can be attached to a group,

you can be attached to a region, you can be attached to a city. So at that time, my job was a top three of the Taliban and then anything in Karachi. So it could be Al-Qaeda, it could be Shia groups, it didn't matter, it could be organized crime. So I did any targeting Karachi. Okay. What's it feel like when you get these guys? It was pretty exciting. The interesting part was that no one believed I really got him. It was pretty exciting. The interesting part was that no one believed I really got him. So we got his photo and of course they sent it first to a CIA asset that I always said was crap

over in Afghanistan. He didn't idea the photo. So everyone's like, it's not him. I said, no, it's him. That source is crap and you need to finally fire him. And then we finally got it into sources that did actually know him and weren't feeding us garbage because as you know a lot of sources in Afghanistan fed us a bunch of garbage got paid for it and then they worked for three other intelligence agencies so so yeah I mean it it was good to get him in retrospect though I realized right away that they wanted him for, I wanted to get him because he was number two, the Taliban. And he was the lead operational commander of the Taliban. So in my head, he's the lead ops guy.

So every year, soldier dying in Afghanistan, it's on his shoulders, right? That's the way I viewed him as a target. When we got him in a room and we started getting questions from what the CIA wanted from him. That's when I actually learned that the president, the time President Obama had appointed like the special envoy, and his name was Richard Holbrook, and his goal was to do Taliban reconciliation. And their main focus, and they had made some assessment, and the only way they could reconcile with the Taliban was to use Moola Berader. So we sit down with him and want to collect info

to go target other Taliban members, right? Because that's what I do. I go after the bad guys, and I find out all my questions are, who would you be okay with coming to meet with you about peace? Like, I mean, we would list off names of countries. Would you be okay if Japan came? The breets came, all this strange stuff. And I was like, oh my gosh,

they only want this guy for reconciliation. And that kind of became, that's when I saw we're gonna make a deal with the Taliban. And we're gonna give part of the government back to the Taliban I didn't think it was gonna be what today was so if I went back in time I never would have captured him because he is the reason the whole country fell

Are you serious where to go? So this plan? This goes way back. Oh, yeah, and they had plan before I captured him. Like the day we captured him, like our chief brought us in the office in Islamabad. Well, we flew back up from Karachi and he brought me and then the other guy who are going to be the lead debris first. And he gave us the heads up. He said, FYI, he said, this is the number one focus in the White House. They want to bring out this whole brunt guy.

They want to take it over from Islamabad station. They don't even want you guys debriefing him. So he fought for us to debrief him, but they pulled everything. They sent a psychiatrist out to watch our sessions and make sure we had rapport with him. I kid you not. They made sure his detainee to briefers had rapport with him.

Like they were already kissing his butt right after we caught him. So yeah, and so he ended up getting released and then he was the key US intermediary with the Taliban to make the peace deal. And I tell you this guy, I mean, I really liked most terrorists. I met another. It sounds really bad because you know, when you're on a human, human level and you're just talking to him, this guy was smart. He was charismatic.

I mean, he was probably a genius because he was locked up, but he could remember he told you something like five days ago, like he knew exactly when he told you stuff. He could defend anything. So if you said, hey, the Taliban did X, he would give you a really good justification why. And you'd be like, oh, yeah, that actually makes sense. So I see the logic.

Can you give me an example? Like one of the things is right after the fall. So the US went in after 9-11 and they beat the Taliban in like five weeks. I mean it was amazing. Like Ra Ra USA, I mean they really kicked ass. They toppled the Taliban. So the Taliban basically all went home. So Moolibirator in my theory first took Mool Omar and he hit him.

So he hit him in a ruse gun and Mool Omar, I don't think ever left there. Breider went home to like the home his dad owns. And they were like, we lost, we're done. Well, as you know, been lot and crusts to Arborra into Pakistan. So our war now on Al-Qaeda was kind of over and it was like, oh gosh, we move this whole war machine to Afghanistan. We beat the Taliban and Bengaladans gone, what are we going to do? So they decided we're going to go target the old Taliban leaders, even though we just beat the Taliban. So they made a hit list of the senior Taliban leaders

and then they came and bomb Raiders House. So at that point, he said, screw this. I'm going in offense. Like you beat us and then you come back here months later and you bomb my house and they actually injured his dad so that didn't help. And then that's when he triggered over and said, okay, games on Talban's back. Like you didn't win. And that's when he went full back in. No kidding. Right. So when you tell, he tells that story, I'm like heck yeah, you come

on my dad. I'm in. So, so yeah, he would always have like a good story like that so I can see how he would meet with US policy makers and be very persuasive. Especially because remember they didn't view the talisman as a terrorist group. They still view them as a political group. Even though they like kidnap people, murder people, torture people, they rape women, they rape children. Like they still call them a political organization. I mean, we're funding them again. Right?

I think we've done like $40 million a week. $40 million a week goes to Taliban. Yes. Who are taking our allies, lining them up like dogs, and shooting them in the back of the head. And we're funding that. And that's kind of what you hope they do. I mean, I've got videos that are very, very painful deaths. What kind of deaths?

Torture deaths and really bad, be heading deaths of our allies, you know These are all the guys we used to work with over there Yeah, a lot of a lot of the people who worked with them get the video sent to them during or after It's a taunt They were taunting when the airport was still open like you know when people are trying to get the airport as refugees, you remember them? US military, they were there, but they couldn't respond in any way to the situation going on. So to taunt them, the Taliban would grab a woman and shoot her in the head. They would burn a child alive in front of the military because they knew they couldn't act. Yeah, you know, I interviewed do you know Tyler Vargas Andrews? We haven't met't met in person, but I'm in the moral compass Federation and he's in the Federation with us. Oh

man, what are you? What an amazing human being he is, but yeah, he was describing some of the stuff that he saw and then you know, I had I worked over there for a long time too and we probably ran into each other without knowing it, but I had people send me videos and cell phone clips of what they were doing and Ladies and gentlemen, it has been a minute since I've done a Bubbs Naturals commercial, but it has not been a minute since I've taken the best shit of my entire life. Actually, just not to one out this morning, it was amazing.

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What does it look like to see the people that used to work with lined up in the mud and just shot in the back of the head, just going down the line? You know, they don't put that on the news. These people need to see that. Yeah, they don't put on the news and they also didn't give any help

to these poor people who had to stand there and watch that, you know, our service men. Like poor people who had to stand there and watch that. Our service men, the trauma they had to stand there and watch and endure, they actually came back here. And a lot of them were told, we don't want to hear you talk about Afghanistan. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's funny to bring it up, because we were just talking, we were talking about India. And you know, the bomber that Tyler had his eyes on was captured in India. Diddy. Yeah. I did not know that. Yeah.

So, so in 2017, ISIS deployed him to do attack in New Delhi, India and he went over there with the ruse of being like an engineer student and like started college and then he was casing a few locations like the New Delhi Airport, like the mall. And the Indians or the CIA, I was out of the CIA at the time. One of them infiltrated the network of ISIS he was in and found out who he was. And they did a capture of him in India. And then they sent him to Bagram.

So he was in Bagram from 2017 until July 1st, when we snuck out in the middle of the night, July 1st, 2021, we left in the middle of the night, didn't tell a commander of Bagram, we were leaving, he comes in the morning, and the Taliban and terrorists are breaking all our prisoners out. That's when he got to prison.

So we had him in custody for all those years. And the crazy part is, is I found out who the bomber was, even before it was in the press, because my guy who gives me ISIS stuff for Libya sent me the photo in like the middle of the night. And I get a photo from him, and it's got a little bit of Arab text. And then he wrote in Arabic something. So I

get up and I translate it and I've honestly had not slept in a week at that point because I just got people into the Kabul airport and I was like, oh gosh, but it's Olivia. You know, like I thought it was a Libyan terrorist and so I was all getting up for it. And it said, you know, this man's important. You need to look into him. And so I translate the name of the picture and it says, low-garry. And so I write back, why are you sending me an Afghan? man's important, you need to look into him. And so I translate the name on the picture and it says, low-gari. And so I write back, why are you sending me an Afghan? It's like, it's still not even dawning on me that he's sending me somebody to do with the attacks, right?

And so he writes back, again, look at him. And I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. And so I try search in the name and I'm not getting anything in the name. And it dawns on me. And I said, was he involved in the Cobble Airport attack? And he said, yeah, I didn't know he was a suicide bomber at that second.

I thought maybe he was the planner. Because usually you don't know the bomber. They just take some low-level guy. And so, yeah, but that's how I found out. And then maybe within the next day, it hit the press, who he was. But yeah, so. Damn. It's crazy.

Damn. Well, what do you want to talk about first? Do you want to talk about, I want to go into the afghan withdrawal. Go anything you want to. I want to go into Benghazi. I'll drink some water. Let's take a quick break.

Okay. When we come back, I think we'll pick up, since we're on the subject, let's go into the withdrawal. All right, Sarah, we're back from the break. We're getting ready to dive into the Afghan withdrawal. I've covered this with Scott Mann before, who I know you know, Scott covered it with Tyler Andrew Vargas, or sorry, Tyler Vargas Andrews, but I'd love to hear.

I'm really interested in getting all the dirt on this. So anything you have to add on top of everything we've already covered, I want to hear it. You know, I think one of the things I could add on top of what they've covered is the fact that it always gets lost that this was state department run, right? The really interesting part is, do you hear anybody ever say

we need to hold state department accountable for the horrible NEO, right? Or even military is like, hey, we were just following the state NEO rules. And then, you know, being CIA and all, you know, even towards the end of the withdrawal, they took over the CIA's gate. So the CIA was probably the only real government organization moving people out, taking our

allies out, making it happen, and doing the right thing. And State Department took over their gate because they didn't like what they were doing and that they were bringing people in. And so even when I finally got a family to that gate after the suicide bombing, it was a state department person running the CIA gate. No kidding. Yeah, so they were basically preventing the CIA from bringing their own people in.

Why do you think we didn't want to save our own people? I think we as CIA wanted to save our own people. I think we as CIA wanted to save our own people. I think the government just wanted to get out of Afghanistan and actually thought they were going to get away with it. I think they just wanted to leave and be done. They never expected 20 years of veterans or intel officers that worked in the country or even just NGOs who had supported the country.

We're going to go back in and save their allies. We got in their way, in a bad way. That's kind of what ruined their narrative, right? Because they were going to say, hey, we left 100 Americans behind, but now you had all these volunteer groups with large list of people able to tally up their Americans and say, hey, we want to cross all the groups. And it looks like 8,000 Americans are left behind. US government, how are you getting away with saying

we only left 100 Americans behind? So it was actually the volunteers who at least told the truth and how the government to account. But of course, the government's not dumb. You know what they did? They made like a coalition to kind of get the other people to be quiet. You know, it's a task force pineapple

that Scott was from, was one of the louder ones, obviously, talking about the issues. And so they wanted to defuse that and they created this thing called Afghan EVAC. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. I haven't. So it was basically going to be, it is, partnership between the government and all these NGOs.

Of course, not all of us are a part of it. And Moracompa's Federation is kind of like the rogue entity to the side. If I'm in something, it's like the rogue entity to the side, just FYI, because it's like, hey, we don't want to play with this game, like Afghan EVA strateg just talks what state department wants in the talk and it keeps people quiet.

You have to sign tons of NDAs. When I first joined in, I think after the third NDA, I was like, what the F, I'm out of this group. But yeah, it is to keep the volunteer groups in line to make them mentally happy. So it's a cover. Yeah, as they drag out the evac, it is a cover to drag out the evac 100%

and all these groups just fall in line with it. And even two years later, at first I thought, oh, I hope they know that they're being played, but yeah, two years later, they still do their monthly meetings and people still talk about it, like it's really saving people. Can you go over some of the,

like what's happening there now? You still have a really good footprint in Afghanistan as far as what's happening. Yeah. And so, I've talked to some of the Northern Alliance guys and they're talking, I had always had a feeling that China played a role in this. A lot of people think I'm crazy, but we have the green energy thing, right? Everybody's moving. This administration is really pushing green energy. Well, green

energy comes from China. It's not energy independence. China was there in Afghanistan the minute we pulled out. I know you know a little bit about this. Very rich lithium mines in Afghanistan. Lithium is what we need to make the batteries that power the green energy. China is taking, I mean, anybody can kind of piece this together and they go, oh, well, maybe there's something to that. Do you think there's anything to that? Well, yeah, I mean, I really hope people have known this the entire time because it would

blow my mind of people negotiating with a Taliban didn't know this, but in 2009, Mule Barator, who again is the person who negotiated the peace deal, his job for the Taliban was he was the liaison from the Taliban to the government of China, and he would go to China and meet with the Chinese government. You know, at the time, it was obviously, as you can imagine, just keeping a relationship going. The Chinese really wanted, hey, Taliban, if you collect any info on the U.S. you know, on the U.S. pass it to us. So it's really interesting.

People don't realize that the Taliban are reporting on other Muslims to China. You know, so everyone acting like, oh yeah, they're going to be some big counterterrorism for us. The people of China are doing abuses against. The Taliban have been supporting that for a very, very long time besides what they're doing in their own country. And then Taliban of course would ask for stuff like help us get weapons or funds for weapons. So it was that kind of relationship. But the Taliban, China relationship has been stronger than the US Taliban relationship at least since 2009 for sure. So of course the China would be the main party they link up with when they go to. And China now I think is the first and only country that has assigned an official ambassador to the Taliban government.

They're the first ones. I think ambassador to the Taliban government. They're the first ones. I think they're the first ones yet. Are they the only ones? The store? Yeah. Everyone else has these weird envoys, but I believe that's the first designated embesitorial position.

I was talking to these Northern Alliance guys, and they were saying there are Chinese officials everywhere over there, Building massive hotels right outside of these lithium deposits, I mean like huge multi-million dollar structures. Which, you don't see those very often over there in the middle of nowhere in Afghanistan. Yeah, I mean, in a smart of them, I mean, obviously it goes along

with their belt road initiative. Like I said, they already had, they don't have to go make a relationship, right? The guy they broke or'd with now, I don't know what he is, not like number three in the government, but he also plays a huge part in the economics piece of this current government anyway. So he's already positioned anyway

to hook China up, which was his closest ally before he was captured. Can you talk a little bit about the Northern Alliance and what's going on with them right now? Yeah, I mean, I can talk a little bit about the Northern Alliance. The thing is, obviously, you know, there's pockets of resistance, right? The Northern Alliance is the most famous because obviously that goes back to Akma Chalmasud.

And he was the key US ally before 9-11. The really interesting thing is, and we talk about it in our book, And he was the key US ally before 9-11. The really interesting thing is, and we talk about in our book, is he was assassinated, of course. Well, the individual who provided the two Tunisian suicide bombers to him, provided attackers to Zawahiri for the Benghazi attacks, too.

Right, the guy still in play. And I like to try to tell people, this is still all connected, right? I mean, I know Miseducan comes up as a connection. It's like, no, even the same terrorists are still in the circle as one, Akman Shout and Miseducan was in power. And I feel the Northern resistance is trying to tell that to people, right?

Like, these are still the same attackers. We're here fighting international terrorists. There's a lot of misinformation in the US that what's happening with Afghanistan is like a domestic war or a tribal war. And it's like no, those are foreign terrorists. They're fighting al Qaeda. At this point, so many terrorists are pouring in to Afghanistan as well. And the really interesting part is Al Qaeda has adopted, like adapted. I mean, so they learned something, I think, from Benghazi. So when Al Qaeda went into Libya after Gaddafi, they decided, hey, it's better for us to take the local commanders

and make them the Al Qaeda leaders instead of bringing in a foreigner. Because, you know, like, you bring in an Egyptian into Benghazi. It doesn't always go well, right? Because the locals like, ah, Egyptians. So they decided we're going to appoint the local. So now al-Qaeda is doing that in Afghanistan. So for each province that al-Qaeda is making commanders for, a lot of them, they're taking Taliban members

and making them the al-Qaeda commander. So the two things that works for al-Qaeda, right? The US will just say they're Taliban when they're al-Qaeda. And they already have the support because they're Taliban, right? So you're not bringing in some outside force and be like, follow me. I'm Al Qaeda. You're saying, Hey, you already found the Taliban guy.

He now works for Al Qaeda. And that's what they did in Benghazi. The two that they chose in Benghazi, they were involved in our attacks. And like I said, they're doing it in Afghanistan now, but like for every province, right? So it's like a hundred Benghazis that almost feels like. Man, they're smart. They are. It's it's genius because there's always been a little ruffling, especially you bring

in Egyptians is always the best example. And then, you know, there's a little headbutting. Man, can you can you talk a little bit about what the resistance is, who it is, who they're fighting? I mean, just more of a snapshot of what's going on over there. Yeah, I mean, I'm not an expert on the resistance. There's different pockets, so there's the Tajiks, right? And that's kind of the ones we all know,

the Northern Alliance. And then there's kind of like the Sadat, you know, like Sammy Sadat, there's the ones who were basically kind of maybe their special forces in their military or in like the Ministry of Defense of the Real Afghan government. And they have like a resistance

and pockets of resistance and different leaders, right? And a lot of them are a posh tomb, but they don't have to be, right? But so there's, so as we go along, right? And a lot of them are a posh tune, but they don't have to be, right? But so there's so as we go along, right, all these different pockets are going to need to go under an umbrella. They're going to need to unite. Exactly. And because that's what the terrorists do, right? I mean, even if you look over in Afghanistan, I don't know if you remember when TTP was formed, but the only purpose of forming TTP

was to make the terrorist stronger by putting them all together. So they took like, by Tulamisu's group, Abdulamisu's, Goba Hodders, and Fikir Muhammad's, and they said, okay, you all go under the structure. So they did it. So al-Qaeda's like, that's genius. And Bin Laden said, I want to start doing that.

I want to do an Olivia. He didn't do it when he wanted to do, but Ansel Asharia, Benghazi started doing it. And then later on, they followed Bin Laden's plan and they actually made another organization that did follow Bin Laden's plan and be forward to Al-Qaeda. But when Ansela Sharay Bengazee was set up and that was when the attackers in our group,

they said any group you can join us. And so I think this confuses a lot of people. So like they'll be a guy at our attacks. He's Ansela Sharay Bengazee and he's AQIM because it's an umbrella organization. You can be any terrorist group under the Ansela Sharay banner. And Al-Qaeda is getting really smart about that. They're actually having meetings with international terrorists to discuss how can we make more of these umbrella organizations a wrap us under it.

Even the Hakanis aren't involved in those discussions. One of our terrorists that we found recently that had been in Gitmo, he's still Libya. He's having those discussions with the Hikonis about, hey, how do we view all of this together, right? Don't make it Afghanistan, don't make it Libya, make this a global terrorism front. Like those conversations are happening. Wow.

And the thing is, they wanted to do this in Libya and they failed. So Libya was supposed to become where all the training camps were, and then they would deploy all the terrorists out from those training camps to all the future G-Hods. First, it was Syria, but then wherever it would become. So they've now shifted that to Afghanistan. So Afghanistan now,'re going to put, I don't know what the exact thing is,

but basically at least one training camp in each province. And so they're going to train all the foreign terrorists in Afghanistan, and then they're going to deploy them from Afghanistan to the different groups. And the really interesting part is the terrorists who moved all of our attackers that left our attacks at a liby after they attacks, he's sitting on Kabul. So basically al-Qaeda's best terrorist facilitator

is in Kabul because that's their plan. Wow, why do you think so many foreign terrorists are converging in on Afghanistan? Because it's safe. Because we're not there. Yeah. So even one of our most recent ones, I'm assuming he's a high-value target in Libya. He was a very high-target value when we're in Pakistan. He now goes to Afghanistan. There's no more drone strikes. He can live a lot safer. So of course, they're going to move there. And remember, that's not where the training camp infrastructure is going to be.

And they want to support that. Do you think China is going to aid them in future attacks on us? I think that for sure, going to turn a blind eye, I think they're going to ride this for as long as they can. I don't think China's stupid. I'm not sure China thinks Taliban's going to be ruling 10 years from now.

But I think China's like, let's position ourselves for whatever that follow it's going to look like. I think that's more what China's thinking. Do you think China's going to be rolling over there in 10 years? I'm not's more what China's thinking. Do you think China's going to be rolling over there in 10 years? I'm not entirely sure. They already are. It sounds like, you know, but so

man, it's so what is what is Taliban's relationship with the US now? Are we? According to an op-ed in the Washington Post today, the CIA shares intelligence with the Taliban, so we have an official intelligence sharing relationship with the Taliban. I just, I just, I can't believe it doesn't even seem real. Does it? I can barely take it every single day. Especially with just how many al-Qaeda members are currently in Afghanistan. The thing is we know Benghazi was covered up that al-Qaeda led the attack, right?

People shouldn't have allowed it to happen. They did. Now, should we have learned our lesson, like we cannot let the US government cover up, I'll call it an Afghanistan. I'm sorry, I feel like people are like, we've done this for 20 years. No, like we're going to say something. We're going to report it if you don't or if the press doesn't. Like I do think people need to step up now. We have so many experts on Afghanistan. We have so many allies in Afghanistan. We can pull out all the information ourselves.

If the government's not going to do the right thing, then everybody who has contacts in Afghanistan needs to be putting the information out. Where do you think, so they're doing all this training and stuff in Afghanistan, Al Qaeda and all these international terrorists, do you think they're going to start coming up through our southern borders? Well, they've already started.

Do you know that for a fact? Yes. How do you know that? I know that because I was told several different times about group pockets of terrorists. So like six, eight, there was one large in one, maybe 25 to 50, I think it was 50, that procured passport from the Afghan government with the sole purpose of coming to our southern border. One was ISIS, there was only a group of eight. The ISIS terrorists got the passport, they went to Iran, their goal was Iran, Turkey,

Turkey, Brazilian visa, and then come up to the Darian Pass. I forget it was 25 or 50, sorry. That was a Connie network. Their goal was, obviously, their Hong Kong network, they run the Ministry of Interior, so they all got the passports. Their goal was Turkey to Brazil. I mean, the key is Brazil.

And then Al Qaeda has also sent attackers on the same routes. And... Why is Brazil a key? Because it's easy to get a humanitarian Brazil visa and then there's no real security to stop you from leaving. So then you just now go illegally up through the Darian pass. Okay. The Darian pass is the focus.

The Darian pass is where they're all going through. The Darian pass is your choke point. Where is that? It's kind of like a Panama. Okay. And it's super dangerous, like if 10 Afghans go in, maybe six come out. Really, why is that? There is murders, rapes, robberies, animal attacks.

Like I seriously know someone who told me that the Afghan died by like a large wild cat, you know, like a cougar, or whatever's the local one there. So yeah, diseases, even if they get through and then get picked up by the panamanians, there's a lot of torture and abuse. So what hold on, what is, why is it so dangerous, sir? This is a section of Panama. I think because so many criminals maybe are going through it. It's just extreme poverty. I think it's just like, it's the jungle, right? It's like kind of a real wild, wild west. And that's, so that's where everybody's targeting

to travel through. So it's not exactly Brazil. Brazil is just the easiest part to get through this pipeline up. Got you. Yeah. It's the easiest country to infiltrate. Brazil, it is, yes.

For the beginning of their journey. How many terrorists, do you know how approximately how many terrorists we've caught trying to cross the southern border? I wouldn't imagine it's very many. It seems like the southern border is pretty wide open. I don't know, because like last year, I thought there was like 20 in a month or something. I feel like maybe in this year was like 100 or so. I don't know, because like last year, I thought there was like 20 in a month or so. I feel like maybe in this year was like 100 or so,

I don't know the exact number. I know we're missing a lot. Yeah, I mean, that these are only who we've caught and I mean. And who we have biometrics for, right? Because if we don't have their biometrics in our system, how do we know where their tears? We don't even know what they are.

And remember, if they're coming as an Afghan on a fake Taliban passport, it doesn't have the biometrics we had anyway. It doesn't have the name we have watch listed. It doesn't even probably have the ethnicity. If you're a Pakistani and you went and got a passport from the Taliban, you're not, they think, assume you're an Afghan.

That's a good point. If they, if we interrogated anybody that they have caught, cross in the border. I mean, I'm assuming I just don't have access to that, but they are detention facilities of astrograsmic. Are you aware of any of the motivations? I just have not seen any debriefings and luckily I have not known and terrorists that's come over think heavens

All right Well, is there anything else that we want to cover when it comes to the afghan withdrawal Thank you again unless you had something all right. Let's move into let's move into some more of your career You're involved in the first operational acts after the UBL raid. Capture of Jonas Al-Moratani. Yeah, so that was an interesting time because as you remember, obviously they got bin Laden and then they're like, oh no, the Pakistanis might arrest all these Americans who were involved and they sent a ton of people home, right? And then Pakistan's like, oh, good, we're going to stop issuing visas.

Like I don't know why anybody factored that in. And then like, oh, shoot, we don't have enough staff in Pakistan because now we can't give visas because Pakistan, you know, retaliation stopped issuing visas. So they went to the targeting community and said, who still has visas? And a long, long time ago, the Pakistani's issue 10 year, and then it went to five year, and then it went just your trip. So I had a five year. There was one girl that was now kind of part-time

CA. She married like a JSOC officer. So she wasn't at headquarters anymore. She had a 10 year. And then Maya, who caught the lot and had a 10 year. The funny part is, the three of us volunteered. So they sent all those staff officers home from Islamabad and Maya, who all of the ISI knew got Deladen.

She volunteered to go back to Pakistan. So they're all whims, right? Because she was like, I'll go back. Um, so they didn't take her. It was, unfortunately, she's a little bit of a tough character. I like her, but the boss, the female boss didn't take her. Unfortunately, she's a little bit of a tough character. I like her, but the boss, the female boss didn't want to have her come back. So me and the other two girl, me and the other girl went.

So I go out there and it is like a ghost town and they're doing nothing. There's no work going on. And we get information that Eunice Mauritani. So he was the kind of external operations commander. So he's now like KSM, but like, you know, 10 guys died since, right? So he's not as smart as college-shake Mohammed who did 9-11. He's kind of like the C team, you know? So he's kind of like the C team, you know? Yeah. So he's kind of like, this is now who we got. So he was in charge of any external plotting

for Coral kind out of Pakistan. And we got information that he was gonna leave Pakistan to go to Africa, and my assumptions maybe like Libya at the time, just because of the year, it was 2011. And then he was gonna plan a tax in Europe from Africa. It was him and his cell, they were gonna move out of Pakistan. So we got this and I said, oh good,

let's go ask Pakistan to detain them and everyone laughed at me. You know, they're like, we don't do operations with Pakistan, more I said, well, we're gonna ask and they're like, we don't act, we don't even talk. So I go over to our chief of liaison at the time, which every chief of liaison in my story is bad, but they're not all bad, but this is sorry, sorry, CIA. So I go to chief of liaison and I say, hey, can you call ISI and see if we can go capture unis?

Real quick, ISI is the Peck-Sanney's version of CIA. Yeah, inter-services intelligence. They have a bunch of different directorates. The CIA works with their counter-terrorism directorate. So that's who we're talking to when we talk to them as a partner if that makes sense. Okay. So I go over, I say, call ISI.

So we can go capture UNICE. And he goes, I don't talk to ISI. And I said, but you're the chief of liaison. Your only job is liaison with ISI. And he goes, yeah. And I said, can I have their number? He's like, I don't have their phone number. He's like, he goes, I'm only here to play tennis.

And I thought I misheard that. I seriously thought I misheard that. So I said, you don't have a number like you can't call them. And he's like, no, and he honestly grabs a tennis racket and leaves the meeting, the discussion with me with a tennis racket. He's seriously wet in the middle of the day to play a tennis racket.

When I was asking him if we could go capture that external operations planner for Al Qaeda. So anyway. This is our US government. I couldn't, I honestly. This is how it is. I couldn't, I honestly. This is how it is. Everybody needs to hear this. Oh yeah.

Everybody needs to hear this. So you went and played tennis. So I go back into the targeting shop and everyone's like, how to go? Like kind of making fun of me. And I said, yeah, the jerk doesn't have I size number. So I said, but we do. And we had this like old notebook in front of the phone,

and it never got changed. You probably need to go throw that notebook away. And so I was like, the phone number's in this notebook. I know it because I've called from it, and I went through the notebook, and I've found ISI's phone number. It's the ISI the targeters talk to, not like the ISI the Chief of Station talks to you, but I don't care.

So I called it, and the guy knew me. And I'm like, hey, it's Sarah Adams. I'm back in country. We want to meet. He's like, come on over. So we went over. It was me and another, like, one of the permanent targetters in the station.

Because I was just a TV wire. And we go over. And they have us go meet, I guess, in the room the chief of station goes to, because it's never where I met before. And it's like this big room with maps all over. And it's really funny, because we always printed maps for ISI.

And I never know what we did with them. And I go to them, this is one of our maps when I thought you were doing operations with them. So yeah, so the room was all these maps. And it was a very senior ISI guy who I assume was probably the head of the CT director. Again, I never met that director so I didn't know who he was. And we start the conversation and I tell them about Eunice and at the time he had like four

or five terrorists traveling with him. And then the guy, you know, he listens and he's like, you know, we'd be interested, but we're really upset about Bin Laden and he kind of goes through this spiel. And then he goes like, hey, if you handshake with me that you'll tell us if you're gonna go get Ivan Alzari Hiri in Pakistan, we'll do it. And so, yeah, like, because I just thought he would say,

you did this with him and law didn't, we're not gonna do work with you. That's why I think the whole conversation's going and he asked for a handshake. Well luckily, I'm not gonna just handshake people, like I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a liar, right? So luckily I knew we were nowhere near getting Zawa Heary, so I said, hey, I know we're not

about to catch Zawa Heary in Pakistan and I shook his hand, which was so funny, because I had no authority to shake his hand. And he said, okay. And then we started planning for the operation. It was one meeting with ISI to get them to restart capture operations. That was it.

And you triggered it. Yeah, and the US didn't even try it. Because old boys over there are playing tennis. Yeah, old boy, yeah, that was a whole nother issue. But yeah, so yeah, we got Eunice and then the funny part is we actually became a big thing. Because we went over to start meeting the plan for Eunice and then press came out that the head of Al-Qaeda and Karachi,

who I knew really well, because I used to be the garageachi targetter, was captured. So I go over, I said, hey, this guy was captured. He's like, oh yeah, he's here. I said, can we meet him? He said, of course. So we started to briefing Akad is head of Karachi, just because we luckily were meeting with ISI again,

and he was in their building. And then, so Eunice and team, go to Southern Pakistan, and I kid you not. Their plan is to get on a boat. I'm not saying a ship, a boat to Africa. So a couple of the guys are like, you gotta be kidding me. This plan is crazy and they jet

and they go back to his area standing like let me ditch Unis. And so all we have is that some guy named Doubt is gonna move him around. This is a part I want to kind of explain why you always collect information. So a guy named Doubt is going to move him. And so I said, let's just pick a Doubt. Like we need a starting point in Coetta. We had no capture team because they stopped captured.

So we talked cobble in the sending, like a person in their tool. They came over and they, oh, I'll be your capture team. So we had a capture team from Kabul. And so I said, let's pick, Dauba Denny. So he was basically KSM's brother-in-law, and he would just spend released a few months ago. I said, hey, we know he's in Kueta. He's important enough to where he would have facilitated him.

And I said, I know I saw in the past during CIA's debriefing program, people mapped out his house. So we dug it all up and found the house. And then we went and asked the AQ guy that were now randomly meeting, hey, did you know Dowd? Did you ever go to his house? He's like, yeah, I've been to his house where his family still live there.

Because that was so old, right? The US probably mapped it out in 2002. And he said, yeah, he still lives there. And then we act like we didn't know what it was. And we made a map it. And it was the exact same location. And then we went and got imagery and said in front of him. And his eyes got all big because his description wasn't good at all. But he was like, how did they find this house for my description, right? Because he was like, it was down on his street, and there was a school bus. Anyway, so we staged and started that location. Eunice was three blocks from there.

He was, I doubt that doubt was involved. We took a guess and he was that close to the location that we're able to capture him. Wow. Is that crazy? And it's all because long time ago CIA's amazing debriefing program that people always give a hard time about when it was the greatest collection of counterterrorism information ever, an old piece of info from like 2002 or 2003

like helped us like do a starting point. Man, that is amazing. Yeah. And then I do have a funny story. Yeah, and then I do have a funny story. So I dated a cashmere for five years, and it was like getting a 101 into ISI. So by the time I got to Pakistan and I worked with ISI, they were the exact same. So everything they did, I knew. Like I always knew all their games. Like I couldn't communicate with them perfectly

because I dated someone difficult, just like them for five years. And so we get Eunice and we capture him in the south, as you know, and we're all in Islamabad. So they say, oh, it's going to take us a week to get him up there. It's eed this week. You can come the week after and start detaining to briefing. So we go back up and of course our stations, like we go in to confirm they really have UNICE, headquarters wants a confirmation.

So I said, I'm just gonna show up and be dumb. And they're like, what? So the first day of EAT, it was a Monday. I talk one of the other station, targetors and we may and I say, yeah, we're gonna drive over there. We'll be 10, we have a meeting and we're gonna see if UNICE is there

and he's like, this is never gonna work work, we're going to get so much trouble. And we went, we went and pulled up to the building and like, no one was working, there was one guy in the guard tower and he goes like this, I'm like, what is sin? And so we get in the eyesight compound, we park, no one's anywhere because everyone's off, we walk in the main doors and there's reception area, no one's working the reception area. And I look at him and I knew he was like dreading when I was gonna say I said we're going down the detainee room So we go down when they do the detainee the briefings and we walk in the room where the CCTV

Video cameras are on and I turn on all the TVs unises on the TV a Minder walks in the room and shuts the TV off and then a comment is later an ISI officer that knows us comes out He's like, what are you guys doing here? And I was like, oh, do we have a meeting today? He's like, no, we told you it's next week. And I was like, oh my gosh, I always get stuff confused. And so we left and we went back and we said, hey, we saw Eunice on camera. He's on a Islamabad. And the funny part is the next week when we went there, I asked that Colonel, I said, what was Eunice like? And he's like, oh, I haven't spoke to him yet. So the minder never told him that we even saw Eunice on camera.

So. Wow. Yeah, so they spent that whole week debriefing him and pretending he wasn't even in the city yet. Damn. Damn. Well hmm. Damn. What? What was that like when you got back to station?

You told him. Everyone was so excited that it was really unice. He's really unique looking. So when we saw in the camera, it was 100% him. So I think everyone was really excited that yes, we got the right guy. Cause there was still a lot of nervousness. Is eyesight really gonna do with this?

Are they gonna let the guy go? Are they really gonna do this operation with us? But yeah, it was all three of who we wanted to get. We got all three. Man, that's amazing. Yeah. Great work. Yeah, well, I mean, wasn't me.

All right, I do ask him a question. Yeah, well, it was you. But let's move into Tripoli. Next, I'm Sean ask him a question. Yeah, well, it was you. But let's move into Tripoli. Next, I'm a Sean Ryan show. People are so lost that it is this big thing and it's all connected, right? They want to ignore that and they want to make Benghazi this little thing on the side that randomly happened

when it's a piece of the whole pie. They want to compartmentalize everything? Exactly. What was the narrative about this? There was some kind of a cartoon that was made. The Los Angeles Times says the producer of an anti-Islam movie that sparked violent protests across the Middle East is behind bars.

Nakula Nakula was arrested Thursday. Jake Sullivan made the video narrative, right? And then they all jumped on board, right? So Obama did a statement, Hillary Clinton did a statement. Obama is, everybody knows, gone on a plane to Vegas to go see Beyonce and Jay-Z. It's like, why didn't he not cancel that trip? And stay and make sure his orders are followed up on, right?

So Obama, this is while the attack's happening. Mm-hmm. Yeah, he flew to Vegas while the attacks are happening. So we have a... Department, we have an embassy in a CIA annex under attack. And the President of the United States is flying to Vegas to meet with Beyonce. Yeah.

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