Shawn Ryan Show - #86 Laird Hamilton - Near-Death Surf Experiences and Surviving JAWS | Part 2

Episode Date: November 29, 2023

Laird Hamilton is a legendary American big wave surfer, known for riding some of the most dangerous waves ever to break. Laird is also a fitness icon and creator of Laird Superfood. Part two is the story of Hamilton's incredible surfing career. He recounts his struggle to find his footing among an industry set on sponsors and rules and how he ultimately became a trend setter rather than a follower. Shawn and Laird discuss "bio-hacking" and how Laird Superfood was created. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://lairdsuperfood.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://drinkhoist.com - USE CODE "SHAWN" https://gcu.edu/military Laird Hamilton Links: Website - https://lairdsuperfood.com Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/F859FC96-07C4-4ED8-952A-9CA41B8B784F Instagram - https://instagram.com/lairdsuperfood?igshid=NGVhN2U2NjQ0Yg%3D%3D&utm_source=qr Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@lairdsuperfood?_t=8hPulnwWiXy&_r=1 Youtube - https://youtube.com/@LairdSuperfood?si=rjEDqFoHVJU01BQH Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lairdsuperfood Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I know I've been blessed so much by the ocean. Laird Hamilton. We're the special reasons that make John think of you. Laird Hamilton. Stunt double for James Bond in the opening film, Die Another Day. regarded by surf historians is the all-time best of the best at Big Wave surfing. Laird Hamilton. Welcome to the show, man. Laird Hamilton is a surfing pioneer and also an icon of the sport. Lared Hamilton has been making waves in the world of surfing for years.

Hamilton shared how he always wanted to be a surfing. Surfing is completely foreign to me. Yes sir. So, excuse my ignorance on the subject. One thing I didn't realize is a wave, when you're talking about different waves, the names of them, it's not actually one wave. It's a location.

Yeah. Yeah. How often do these, I mean, is it every set, what is it? You know, when we talk about the you know, the way that you conquered the Joss, I mean, how often does that show up? Well, it depends on the season. And so it can be, it's normally during the winter when the storms are the biggest in the North Pacific. And so it can be, you know, there could be 20 days during a three or four month period. There could be only five days of real, like, truly big surf.

There could be the biggest, there's usually like the biggest swell of the winner or the two biggest swells of the winner. And those can last the day, the day and a half, two days. So there's windows of time to be, uh, that those happen. And so, and then all the variables and then depending on that day, let's say, let's just say, okay, last year or the, you know, we had the swell of the winner was in January 25th or whatever, and it lasted for two

days, but one day was the biggest day. And then during that day, there could be a three or four or five wave set in a group that comes in. And then there's a biggest wave during within those three or four waves. There's like one way that's just predominantly bigger than the other ones. Maybe usually it's like the third wave of the set. Okay. And then there's, and then those groups, or could be every 15 minutes, could be every 10

minutes, could be every 20 minutes, could be every hour. But it could be somewhere in that, and all of those different variables, whether there's five waves in the set or three waves in the set, and then the amount of sets in the separation between the sets, are all reflective of the storms production. And the way the storm is producing the waves, because the storms are producing the waves with the wind, and it's all about the rhythm of the storm. So if you have a very powerful storm

that really has really high winds and is really blowing consistently. It'll pump out a bunch of them. And if you really understood like the Hawaiians were able to probably, I know they were, but it's a little bit like looking at the light of a star that's gone and being able to tell you what the star was. So they could look at the waves and tell you

that they know what kind of storm that was and they could tell you all the characteristics about the storm. When you have that kind of intimacy. Now we have scientific measurements, things like spectral density, which is actually how strong the wave's energy is because the waves... Waves move vertically through the water. The water stays still, but the energy is traveling through, which makes the wave.

The energy is traveling through the water. When you have, for example, a tidal wave, the tidal waves' energy travels horizontally. That's why tidal waves go 300 miles an hour, and waves travel at about 30. So it's a pretty complex, I mean, within, you know, hey, waves in the ocean, you go out and surf, but when you start to understand, I mean, the truth about surfing or a truth about a good surfer is ultimately that you understand waves.

You're actually a wave reader. You can look at waves, you know, what they're going to do. Like, I can go to the beach and be with Gabby and we're watching us, you know, wave come in. And I'll be like, oh yeah, the guy's gonna crash. And then he takes off and ride crashes and she goes, how do you know he's gonna crash? I could just tell the way he was moving at the speed he was moving in the way the wave was moving that the wave was gonna break on him and knock him down.

So, and all of that, that's what takes the time. The actual standing up and riding aboard, I mean, that's the reward for the work, right? Is that intuition or is that learned? Yes, which is intuition learned. So it yes, the learn becomes intuition. So it's like the 10,000 hours, right? When you have that much volume of experience, it goes into the unconscious, which is the intuition. So you start to be able to, over time, you'll be able to sense like, you know what, that's going to do that, right? But it's still connected to all of that experience was consciously learned from observation and

time. And that's what takes time in surfing. The surfing, that's the real thing is understanding that we're wave readers. That's why we can go anywhere in the world. It doesn't matter where we go in the world. We can go to any place in the world, and we can tell you about the way we know what the wave's doing.

We can tell you the bottom topography, like the way the bottom's shaped, by the way the wave's breaking. Like we know already. We already know that the way the wave is moving, what the bottom shape is and what it's doing. So, and that's just again, that comes from all that time. And it's connected to like, like the guys being able to sail with the stars and look at the water texture and know that

there's an island over there because they can see the refraction of the waves on the water coming from, you know, they say all that stuff that, you know, they said they Eskimos had 300 names for snow. And I mean, you just, it's the things that we were more intimate with nature. So surfing is really based on that. Like, and then there's locations all over the world that we seek out specifically for specific kinds of waves,

like certain types of waves because of, you know, like in Tahiti has very unusual reefs, right? So they're coral reefs that grow in a way to absorb Absorb waves. So we have you know, there's there's there's Continental shelf waves there's sand bar waves. There's beach. I mean, we have every different kind of, you know, we have in every different kind of of wave that you can think of. You know, you were considered a pro surfer at age 17, correct? Yes, sir. What is it that? Defines that? Yes. You make money because you weren't you weren't a competitor. No, correct. Yeah

that? Yes. You make money. Because you weren't a competitor. No, correct? Yeah. So that kind of messes you up a little bit because it went because I made a professional career in surfing. How did you get noticed? I mean, what was it about you? The way I was surfing. Really? What I was doing, yeah. Because surfing is unusual in the sense of, and I guess you can't use mountain rock climbing, but in a way it's has this weird, when I grew up, so when I grew up, there were great surfers that were like the best surfers at some of the best waves in the world, and then there were guys that were good in contest, right?

And they would go out in a contest at Huntington or at a surf spot, and they would win, and they were known for surfing in a contest at Huntington or at a surf spot and they would win and they were known for surfing in a contest against other surfers. And then there were and those same guys could come to this spot, but the guy that was the best surfer at this spot, you still the best surfer in the world couldn't compete with him. Then it started to kind of merge a little bit as it went, but there was a real there was a real separation between art of surfing, the art of it, and then the competitive side

in when I was young. And actually, the art of it was bigger than the competitive part. The truth is that the whole thing about being a competitor is that you're in a contest, they publicize a contest, people see the contest, you have sponsors, they pay you because people are gonna see the contest. You have sponsors. They pay you because people are going to see you.

Now, if you go right a giant wave and you're in a movie, and then people are going to see you, then sponsors are going to pay. So at the end, the outcome is still the same thing. It's just that normally in sports, you have platforms. You have your professional tennis player. And there's no opportunity for some guy to do trick shots or be a great player without playing in tournaments because they define that through

scoring points, right? Surfing is a little more ambiguous. It's a little bit more like music or some kind of art where if you, if I go and surf and then they take pictures of me and make movies of me surfing and then you have people that love it They go, yeah, they they love the pictures. They buy they watch the movies Well, that's that's that I have I can make a career doing that right? Or I can be a competitor and I can go on a tour and I can beat the other surfers and I can be the world champ And then you could make a career doing that. Now, my thing was that I watched my father who was known as one of these most aesthetic surfers in the world, also surf competitively. I watched in my young impression, the judgment, the judgment, the how come the subject my performance. And I think I'm naturally,

like, I'm so competitive, it brings out the worst in me. It's like, it's just, I'm not good at that. Like, I'll, you know, I break the pickleball rackets with my daughter when we play in the backyard. Like, it's just, I'm not good at that. Like, it's just not good. No, it's just not good. I'm just saying, it's just not good. I mean, I can do it and I barely can keep control of it when it's like, you know, in my yard. But so I know that that brings out the worst to me. So I watched, anyway, I watched my dad go through that. I watched his rejection from, you know, maybe surfing the best he had ever surfed in this one event. And I was, and watched him get lose by a half a point to a guy that was the world champ. And it was like, would he win? Did he not win?

And there was all this ambiguous stuff around it. And so I thought, you know what? I never want to subject myself to that. And my idea was, if I could surf the best, and when I say surf the best, surf in a way that no one else is surfing, like surf at a level and do a thing in the biggest that that would be the most definable, that you couldn't, there would be no. There would be no, like, sorry, you didn't make the points

or whatever, it would be like, because I felt the biggest waves, if you could ride the points or whatever it would be like because I felt the bit that the biggest waves If you could ride the biggest waves with the with the biggest performance that that would be the most clear Defined thing that there was and so that's that was that's really been my approach I mean, I dabbled. I've winsurf competitively Speed sailed that was on with time. I paddle boarded. I love paddle board racing, like on your markets that go all about that, no problem. Cause clocks don't have opinions. They just go, dig, dig, dig, dig.

I mean, there was some other crap that goes around that stuff, but for me, that was real. Those are defined things, but this other, you know, judgment around your performance. So you basically did want to conform your style of surfing to the opinions of the so-called relative. The judges. The judgment.

Because it would have changed your style. It wouldn't have been you. That's true. That's true. Non-conformist. Nice. So that's the approach I went. And it made it harder.

You know, it made it more difficult because I didn't get the support from the industry. Like I wasn't getting support from it. And actually, I got notoriety more in Europe. Initially, I had a 15 or 20 year career in Europe. And technically, even to this day, I never really got any support from the surf industry in America, which was where all the money was truth. Like I'd never had a real American sponsor. Once I built my whole thing in Europe, and then I built it through doing multiple things. So I started, I would win surf, snowboard,

big wave ride. I was doing all these different disciplines. The French love that variety. I got support from Europe. Still never really got love here. Finally got some love more later in my career here in America, but never support from the surf industry itself. I got acceptance like I wrote a crazy wave into Headey. We developed this technique to be towed in, right? So we developed a technique that allowed us to ride bigger waves than it had ever been ridden by being toad by a first via zodiac, because that's what we had in the beginning. And I grew up driving these zodiacs. Who is we? A group of friends of mine.

Okay. Yeah, so I have a friend of a group of friends, this guy, Busy Kerbox, Derek donor, a couple other guys that were like-minded. But I developed this technique around being towed in, which allowed us to ride ways that had never been written. And that kind of broke the whole thing open about we were riding waves just so much bigger than it had ever been served. And so that allowed me to ride a wave into Headee. They got some crazy acknowledgement, which kind of almost was like,

I got acceptance for the first time because normally what I was doing was, oh, he's over there doing that and that's not surfing in ball of blood. So I wasn't getting a lot of love for a long time, which I was used to that. Like I grew up that way, so I think that that tool,

like these tools that I got growing up, that I was used to say, you know, if people don't like me for how I'm born, why would you think I would be bothered for them not liking me for how I behave? Like why would I even, like they don't, I was born a way that they don't like me. So you think that I'm going to be offended, like if they, if how I'm acting they don't

like, I could care less. So I think things like that allowed me to kind of not be affected by peer pressure. Like I didn't, you weren't going to peer pressure me, you weren't going to be like, hey, that's not socially acceptable or people don't think it's cool. Like, I wasn't, usually when people didn't think it was cool and I was doing it, I was like, oh, I'm on the right track. I'm right on the right track.

I know I'm on the right track. I'm getting resistance, because I'm used to that. I'm used to resistance. Like, oh yeah. Like, if I'm not getting resisted, I'm kind of like, ah, maybe I'm not on the right direction. Maybe I need to turn and go some other direction where I'm getting it.

So I think there is things, and if you look, and it ended up all of those things moved into innovation because, in the process when you have, when you're creative, right, and you have an idea. So you think about like, I have some of these ideas that I have, like let's talk about Santa Palley as an idea. Okay, got Santa Palley. We're like, cool. So I get out there I some of these ideas that I have like let's say I'm talking about Santa Palli as an idea. Okay, got Santa Palli.

We're like cool. So I get out there. First of all, the reason why I started petting Santa Palli was because my first daughter came and I'm like I want to take my daughter surfing but I'm only going to put her on a big board with me. But I have to learn how to ride these big boards first. So I built these giant boards and I started surfing on them, getting used to them before I put her with me. At one point I'm standing on the board and I think it was windy and it blew me back out and I'm like, I don't even want to lay

back down. What if I just had a paddle? So my friend had some paddle for canoe and I went out and I started paddling and then I had the little epiphany. I'm like, well this is amazing. So I went in and I had a guy build me a tall paddle. I started paddling. You I had the little epiphany. I'm like, well, this is amazing. So I went in, I had a guy build me a tall paddle. I started paddling. I can't tell you how many people, although that's, what is that crap? What are you doing? That's not surfing. The whole thing. And I was just like, before you know it, I'm like, okay, I'm surfing. I'm paddling across channels. Then pretty soon, it's like, oh, no, it's a sport. Now people are racing. People know, the guy guys, you know, in Dubai with turbines paddling,

I go, yeah, that was pretty stupid idea. But, but, I'm not saying, but, but the resisted, I could have easily been swayed from that by having people go, hey, that's not, and being worried about there, if they were, you know, I just had, I can't go off of that instinct, that feeling like, hey, you know what, you're on the, you're on to something, I go off of that instinct, that feeling like, hey, you know what, you're on the, you're onto something, this is magic, this is special, this is, you know,

this is something unique, and listening, again, listening to your gut and not, there's a famous woman who is an innovator and they asked her about, you know, what would, what would, what should you do if you have a really good idea and she says Don't tell anybody for a year Because they're gonna only discourage you and you what you realize is that people when you have ideas

They are gonna discourage you because and I don't know what what it is. Maybe it's a human condition where like maybe Then they're not if they if they they're not being responsible for their ideas, right? So they're like, oh yeah, you don't want to do that. Because then they don't have to maybe be responsible for an idea they have. Because otherwise they have to do it. And you have to go through that process, right? It's it's, it's a, I call it the formulaic process of learning, like of, or of innovating, we're, and we talk about the formulas of life, like, the morals of life.

There's formulas. There's formulas for learning or innovation. One of them is being a beginner. You got to be cool with not being any good. You got to suck. I remember my bill, Hamilton, I was like, when surfing came along and it was like, you had a sail and you're on a surfboard, all of a sudden you're going full speed and you can hit waves and fly in the air and catch giant

waves with this thing and I'm like, this is the greatest thing ever. I go, you should try to go, I don't want to do that. I'm good at surfing. I know how to surf. I can go out and surf good. I don't want to be a beginner and flop around for a month or two. And that held him back from ever doing it because he was worried actually about being a beginner. He didn't wanna subject himself to being, but it's temporary. It's just a temporary moment that you're a beginner.

And before you know it, all of a sudden you are, oh my God, you're like, okay. And then I'll say, wow, you're good. Wow, you can really do it now. Like it's like that process is pretty short and you're just a beginner for it, but you have to be willing to subject yourself to maybe being laughed at.

How they're gonna laugh at you? Who cares? And then pretty soon, you're sitting back on the beach and you're laughing at them because then they see you finally get good enough and they're like, that is cool. Let me try and then you get to watch them, you know, the tables turn, but, but you have to be okay with that. You got to be okay with being laughed at.

And, and I think that's not easy for people. That's not an easy thing to be, to be humiliated or laughed at, especially if you're good at something. You don't want to be a beginner. Like, well, I don't want to do that. I don't want to have to learn how. But everybody was a beginner once. You have to be willing to subject yourself. And then what I found was that that is a formula

that you just subjected to the next thing. You do it once, okay, do it. You do it twice, you do it three times, you have pretty soon you do it 10 times, then you're just like next new thing, okay, here we go. Okay, I'm just a beginner. Okay, now I'm a little better. Oh, now I can do it. Now I'm pretty good at it. And so it becomes, then you're just like next new thing. Okay, here we go. Okay, I'm just a beginner. Okay, now I'm a little better. Oh, now I can do it.

Now I'm pretty good at it. And so it becomes, then you get addicted to that almost. That almost becomes more fun than actually being really good at something and trying to gain just small increments of improvement. That's, that's, you know, all the big part of the curve is in the initial part. That's where you get all that lift,

where you go from, I suck, I'm okay, wow, I can do it. And once you're great, it's our good. And then you're trying to go to great, you're just fighting for like. Little meticulous. My new little things, and you could spend forever polishing the stone,

but at a certain point, just get a new one and start from wrong again. Did you ever chase being a pro or did it just happen? I surfed in a couple because when I grew up, we used to do longboard events, which we were riding these big boards. And when we were kids, it was fun, right? It was kind of a fun thing, because there was no money, and there was, it was just, you were you and your buddies, you go down and get a win a t-shirt or something.

I did a couple of those, and then I watched, I went and watched competition surfing, and I would go, I went to, you know, some contests and the waves were like this big. The waves were like that tall, like that tall, like waist high and they were gonna crown the world champion in waist high surf and I thought, well first of all, I'm 200 pounds. That guy's a buck 20.

I'm gonna have no chance even getting going and he's going to be doing in some kind of acrobatic move. And world champion of what? Like, so I mean, now it's changed a lot and now they look for better venues and better surf. And I mean, there's no doubt that a lot of the greatest surfers in the world, but not all, are in competitive surfing, because that's the only way, the way the system's been set up. It's really the only way you can actually make a living in it. So they've almost forced everybody into that. There's still some rebels that surf outside of it and big wave riding because it's kind of filled with rebels. Naturally, I think it's had a, it's actually the most entertaining,

but it just hasn't had as much traction in the, you know, competitive aspect. Part of it is just because you're, you're always at the mercy of the conditions. And that's, I mean, you know, and you'll be able to relate to this, but, you know, I described kind of big way of writing, especially like you're in the fire department.

You don't know when the fire is coming, but you know there's going to be a big one. But you've got to be ready. And you've got to be ready all the time. And sometimes that process is pretty, that's an arduous process. Like when you spent 30 years being ready to go out and die, because that's part of what there's a reality there. So you have that in your mind when it's giant that you could die. And it's real clear. You spend 30 years doing that 30, 40 years doing that? Tiring. You've heard me talk about them before.

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Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University. Private, Christian, and affordable. Visit gcu.edu slash military. Being ready all the time, like when are you gonna do it? I don't know, maybe tomorrow. Tomorrow, next day, next day, like, I mean, we have windows of time. You still have the Southern hemisphere,

so you can still go to the Southern hemisphere in the summer. So that's when their winner is. So there's, you know, in the world, there's opportunity, probably eight or 10 months a year to find a giant wave to ride. But then you gotta be in that mental state. The psychological state to be physically prepared and emotionally prepared to go subject yourself

to this thing, which is why it wears a lot of people out finally, finally they just go, they go tap out. I'm just not ready to put myself in that mental, that state of mind to be in that position. It's just, and I know that you can relate, even more so, because of the alert that you're on when you're under fire and when you're in a position, when you know that you can be shot at it any minute, but you're living in that kind of thing and your mindset during that thing is that's a, that's a, that's a, that's, that's real. That's a real thing. That's like a, that's a, that's a, the mental kind of, I don't

say fortitude, but the mental thing of being in that kind of living in that state is not, that's, that's, that's taxing. So you got to figure out some way within that to kind of, you know, maybe reduce the taxing or make it tolerable, like how do what things can I do to the, and I know being so well- It's all preparation. Yeah, yeah. It's all preparation for what you want to do. That's right.

And so for my background, I mean, that's what we do. We prepare for that. And that's what we want to do. I mean, it sounds weird saying, and why would you want to go into a gunfight? Well, I'm also an adrenaline junkie. Yeah. And that's the kind of adrenaline

that I liked being a part of. And so everything that you do in life is when you're in that that is preparation so that you can perform at the highest level when when the time comes and you do you never know when the time is coming. But it's going to happen and the preparation gives you I think well first of all I think it's a distraction one thing it's because you have to busy yourself doing something and sitting around is never good because you're in your head.

So preparation also, I think the preparation also gives you confidence when you do arrive in the situation, whatever the situation is, to be able to know that you've done everything you can that's under your power to have the best chance you can. So if you didn't do anything, you'd be like, oh, I should have done, maybe I should have done a few more pushups, or maybe I should have to shut the target a little bit more, maybe should have hold my breath a little longer, maybe I should have, like,

so you don't wanna have any of that stuff creeping in because that's never good, like, especially during things. So I feel like that's the thing that, in a way, that's what's evolved for me to be into like, at this point, still thinking the way I'm thinking, that's the only way I've been able to do it. I mean, I don't know, it's not so severe contrast as your thing, but again, I think a lot of it has to do with the mental, the perceived danger, because you can be in a, you can be in your couch.

And if the perceived danger is in your couch, that can be as bad as being in front of a hundred foot wave. Absolutely, because at the end, where we have that power, right, of like the perceived danger is present. So, for me, I think my lifestyle, like all this heat and ice and the pool and the thing and all that stuff, this is all things

towards the preparation of being ready, right? But living, but being in a ready state of lifestyle, like the lifestyle is a ready state. Like so you're trying to live a lifestyle and a piece of it is having good relationship with Gabi. Like if Gabi and I are having a fight and there's a giant swell, I'm gonna go surf, I'm not gonna be a good headspace.

Being in the present, you know, having my daughters and everybody be healthy and everything at the thing be good. Okay, then it's gonna allow me to be a little more stable when I'm in this other situation. Like it's all feeding in, like back to the spokes, all being nice and tight for their thing, just makes you, at least for me, I feel like I operate better when I do get pressed. Like if I'm in a pressing situation, if I'm taking care of all my business,

if all my business is taking care of, and there's nothing unsettled, nothing undone, I feel like I really am better. I'm just, I do better. I just, at least it doesn't allow distraction. There's no outside little, hey, I should have gone over and told that guy Bob Ball or I should have a thing or why didn't I, you know, whatever it is on the, you

know, on the thousand-to-one list that you have, you know. It sounds to me like you were accepted into the professional community just by having the courage to be you. And and and and and and turn it. You're a trendsetter. Just by having the courage to be you, you've set the trend with the with the with the with the big waves, you set the trend with the paddle boarding, you've set a lot of trends. And nobody can take that from me because they didn't have the courage to be them. They've all conformed into... Well, we said by default, like, I said by default, like, it's like,

it was, they didn't have a choice. They can't ignore it. They had to go, okay, sure, bring them in, yeah, okay, you know, you get to have your little thing and then whatever, like, I mean, they, it's like, it was by default, like, they didn't, it was not even, I mean, that was, seemed like that was the only way it was going to happen.

I'm, I'm fine with it. It was just, but that's the irony. Like, at the end, it was just like, okay, yeah, we can't ignore it anymore. It's like, I'm on the cover of National Geographic and I'm on the thing over here. And then I'm sponsored by American Express and all the thing that finally, okay,

everything but the surfing community. Exactly. Seriously. Would you have it any other way though mind. Everything but the surfing community. Exactly, seriously. Would you have it any other way though? Oh, it's an awesome. It's an awesome. It's awesome. I'm just like, sure, knock yourself out. Yeah, because it's, it's like,

you're getting blessed from non-conformancy, right? You end up getting, but it's just a harder, initially it's the harder, but it goes back to everything, right? It's like, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? At the end of the day, it's like, initially, it's not the, it's not an easy route. It's not, there's nothing fun about it. There's a bunch of things that uncertainties and different ways you win and everything, but, but you dis your, you didn't have to participate in the conformacy. You didn't have to participate in the conformacy. You didn't have to get in there and just like,

go out when they blow the whistle and come in when they blow the whistle and then they tell you how you did. I just was like, cool. Like, because I was never gonna, that was never gonna work out good. So not only if I participated, and not only will that stop me from actually doing what I wanna do, but I also wouldn't even got me

what I didn't wanna do. I was like, you know what I wanted to do, but I also wouldn't have even got me what I didn't want to do. I was like, I would have been hammered on both sides. So, what was it? So, I mean, you still hit, you were still considered a pro at 17 years old. Well, sponsorship, yeah, because to be a pro professional, is you're getting paid. So you're getting, I had a sponsor,

I was getting paid to surf, and then I'm doing, I'm in surf movies, I'm in the surf magazines, the sponsors pay you because you're getting in magazine, you're getting exposure, right? Sponsors pay athletes because they get exposure. It's just most athletes have to play in their profession, like internaments and in games to get their exposure.

But I was just bypassing having to participate in the structure, going right to exposure. But at the end, it's like sponsors are sponsoring your show because you get exposure. So, sponsors are sponsoring athletes because they get exposure. Right? So, sponsors are sponsoring athletes because they get exposure. But if you know an athlete's getting exposure because they're playing on TV, or they're in the maggots, they're in sports illustrated,

or because they're playing in the game. I just bypassed the game and went right to the exposure, which is what my exposure was my performance. So my surfing was getting the exposure and then that was allowing them to pay me. What was the, where do you think the exposure stemmed from? It had to be something specific because you were doing so many different things.

You know, I mean, like initially it was from my surfing. Like right away from the beginning, initially it was from my surfing. Like, right away from the beginning, which was what was happening from my surfing. My surfing, I was surfing, I mean, I'm trying to understand it, but part of it was, I was surfing at a level where they were putting me in movies, they were putting me in magazines, and they were, so my surfing was, I was surfing at a level

and doing things at a level. It'd be like if you were a basketball player and you could go shoot from half court and you just drilled them from half court all day long. People would come to watch you shoot, they would make a movie from you shooting at half court, they would write articles about you and because you could just bury it from half court all day long,

you didn't even need anybody to play. You're like, is anybody playing? Not always playing, but you can just bury it from it. It's a little bit like that, like in the sense of except that, it's kind of kinds of waves I was riding. The way I was riding the waves was brought me a certain level of notoriety.

And then when I went to Europe, I built the whole other thing because of wind surfing. So I went to European, I was in the first European, my first speed event for wind surfing, I broke the European speed record, which as, and I came through the trials, I had to race against the world, the champion, the French champion. I beat him like in his home court. And then that propelled me into getting a sponsor. And then they, and then, and then anything I did, they would promote it, right?

So then, then Le Keep Magazine would write articles about you know this athlete and all the stuff I was doing and so then I just kind of built built from that right so that and then I would and then I was in films I was in you know I was either doing a you know doing a cameo in some film or doing another you know I played I was a villain in a in a movie called North Shore and then I was in a, you know, and then I'm in, and then I was sitting here in another ad for some other company. And, you know, so I'm getting exposure through all these different, these different platforms. And, you know, surfing is so small, it's like, like, getting volleyball is the same way. You know, we had to be creative. That's what's brought us into being entrepreneurs, because we've had to be creative. That's what's brought us into being entrepreneurs

because we've had to be creative because I didn't sit back and play baseball and get my $300 million contract and then just be like, it's all cool. I don't need to do anything. I've always had to be a little creative in my, and part of my creative innovation stuff within the sport had to do more out of my interest

and my boredom. I just needed to keep, I've been surfing so long already by the time I was, you know, 25, 30 that I was like, I needed new things to be stimulated. So I was always, you know, looking at, looking at it that way, right? Yeah. And the whole thing about right, being the, the writing the biggest waves in the world, that was, I mean, that was always the, I had these other pieces, but my, you know, my, that the tip of the spear is writing the biggest waves in the world the best. Like, that was the

whole thing. Like, I'm going to be, I I'm gonna ride the biggest waves in the world the best, which, you know, again, it becomes an opinion, but yes and no. Like you see the footage, you see the guy do it, you go see it, and you see how the experts come, and they're all the experts at surfing, and they see it, and they go, okay, well that looks like no one's all done and quite like that, no one's doing it like that, no one's ever done it like that.

Probably so maybe haven't done it yet like that, they may have no if everybody's gonna ever do quite like that. No one's doing it like that. No one's ever done it like that. Probably so maybe he haven't done it yet like that. They may have no if everybody's gonna ever do it like that. Then that just puts you in your own, your own, your own genre. That's awesome. When did you start the, when did you start the big waves? Well, I started serving big waves when I was young. I started when I was 13, probably, right when you get puberty,

soon as you're like a young like, when would you do a tribal initiation? When would you do a tribal initiation would be like, I mean, you know, because of what you've been through, when do young guys get guns that start to become a man? Like as soon as you become a man, like as soon as you have puberty, right around then,

you start to go, okay, and then you're like, and then you start there, that was the beginning because I was always attracted to big surf just because I like being scared. Like I like that, I like that feeling that I got. Like you said, when everything's on and you're, and just the whole, you know, the whole, and I also liked the way it made

everybody else act. How is that? Nice. Nice. It makes everybody act nice. It's really, it's really, it's good. I think, I mean, you know how that is. danger and threat just keeps everybody. Well, and sometimes it brings out certain things in certain guys, but it creates a real, and again, coming off of the land that I was on, it was a real place of equality, right? There was like, we're all kind of equal. I always, I have a saying, I have a a shirt that says we're all equal before a wave like it's the respect for the it's the it's a respect for everybody that's out there who has the courage to be

there and and it's it's people are nice. I always say people will fight you for a two-foot wave but they'll give you a 20-foot wave, for sure. It's little people are, and then you get in giant surf and they're like, oh, not you go. No, I'm good. Yeah, you're up. You know, like, and so I always, I think I really like that. I think I like the way people,

I like the way people behave better when it was big and on top of the fact that I love the love the and it was and I always thought it was a real a real clean defining separation like I always liked like you know like a sign of courage would be we go to a cliff right and we just start hiking up a cliff and then we get to a certain height and then we okay, we both jump off and then we climb back up, we go a little higher and eventually we get to a place where just maybe only no one else wants to jump off and you're the only one that wants to jump off and I just like that kind of that defining thing that that's a real defining. There's no,

it's all clear. Like it's good, you're making the choice. I'm making the choice. Everybody making the choice. Here we go. It's like a real clean. I like that clarity of like, you know, and nothing is no weird thing. It's not like, oh, I'm, you know, it's just more like, okay, hey, you're tough. And I think I can go too. So we'll just keep going and we'll see who, how far you'll go.

It's a healthy, healthy respect. It is. Knowing that there's only a, there's a very limited amount of people that have the courage to put themselves in that type of a situation. Yeah. And, and be able to perform under that amount of fear and stress. Yeah. And then, and then that may, and so I mean, listen, there's ways that people go about it, right?

Some is ignorance, some is denial, and then some is experience, and there's a combination. I always say those are the three things that we approach these situations with, right? Is experience, denial, and then experience it. I mean, experience, denial, and ignorance. And so, and then, you know, some guys just come in, they don't even know, oh, right there,

and you're like, and you understand, and you're like, wow, and then the guy pulls it off, and you're like, oh, that's not gonna be good, because he gained false sense of confidence, right? But, but somewhere in there, it's a mixture of all those things, right? That most of the time people are doing dangerous things, there's something like that,

like a little bit in denial, a little bit ignorance, fair amount of experience, or... Ignorance will get you in the door. Experience will keep you there. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah, I'm familiar.

But let's talk about the jaws, sir. You were the first one to ride that, correct? Yeah, well, the thing is that that place was an un-served place. I mean, I think a couple, because people will go, oh, we paddled out there anything. No one was surfing that spot, whether they had been out there before, like, on the side looking at it, or they went out on a small day and wrote it. But what allowed us to to pioneer that break was the technique of being pulled. So that technique that we developed to being pulled in allowed us to go to this wave that

was virtually unrightable. I mean, guys go there now and paddle into it, but only when it's forgiving enough to let you do that. But when you get into this other level of wavewriting, it's, you mean, maybe on, you know, one day every hundred years, you might be able to get, you know, close to, but the fact is, we can go out there and get towed on. And that wave was just designed for getting, for towing. That, that, that jaws is a a I mean, it's one it is probably the premier performance big wave in the world as far as just a wave that and again, you know, you said 30, 40, 50, 60, I mean, it's you know, 80 foot faces. I mean, that that places that places,

I mean, there's a wave now in Europe called Nazare, that is in Portugal that's also only half even being ridden because of the toe-in technique. Again, that allowed that, that place to be ridden. And it does an unusual thing that, from like, it steps up and becomes the two waves join for a second, so it gets really tall and then kind of dissipates. And it's not a, it's not a great performance wave. It's more like get your picture on a giant face, and then, you know, say you rode the biggest wave in the world, I mean, the fact that they get into,

I'm so, we've always been resistant against the whole measurement, like measuring, trying to define a way by the face height, is like trying to measure a cube by one side of it. Like you're just, you're talking about something, you know, I always describe, I just describe big ways like dogs. You got pit bulls, you got rotwilers, you got great Danes, you got dovermans, you got all these different dogs, they're all different, right?

Different breeds. Some are little with big old heads and big teeth and they've vicious. Some are bigger and they're a little nicer and that's how certain waves are. Waves are exactly like dog. There's little ones that have teeth with big heads that want to chomp your throat and then there's other bigger taller ones that are a little, you know, and then there's big ones that are big biteers too. And so that's a better description of a wave than like,

it's a 50 foot, it's 60 foot. I mean, there's because there's so many variables that go into what a wave is, the energy of a wave. A dog is a better description of a wave than a measurement. Like a personality. Personality. And they have them. And some of them are vicious, and some of them are a Labrador. Some of them are all sweet, and some of them are,

and they have some change on different days. Certain days they're real nice and friendly, and you can pet them, and some days they just wanna bite you. They just, they wanna, they're gonna bite you. You talk about some near death experiences that you've had, Seraphim. Yes, sir. And we go into had, sir. Yes, sir. We go into some of those.

Yes, sir. I mean, I've been lost to see. So I spent like a day and a half out of the ocean way, like in Hawaii, about 60 miles offshore, which was a different kind of being near death. I would think that's a, that was just a longer time to think about it, but without really any imminent threat right away, right? So no, not no imminent threat right away, but the whole possibility of like, hey, I'm 60 miles from shore. I won't be able to get back. I hope my E per works, and I don't know if if it does and I hope something shows up to pick me up,

but if it does it. So you just, and I only had a good half a day to think about it, but it was good enough. Like it's good enough to, I mean, half a day, half an hour, if you really think it's the end, you know, like, I'm gonna be eaten by a shark, am I gonna thing, what am I gonna do, am I gonna drown, am I gonna thing, like what am I end, you know, like, I'm going to be eaten by a shark, am I going to thing? What am I going to do? I'm going to drown. I'm going to thing. Like, what am I going to do? You know, all that stuff that runs. And then I've been held under, you know,

I've been held under multiple times. I, you know, the truth is that, because I tried to think about it, I watched, uh, Alix climb, you know, the climbing free, where he free climbs the Neosamity. So he does the free climbing with no ropes. And then they did a study on his brain, and they said his brain does something different when he's scared. And I was trying to understand what that meant, like what that, what that, why, why was his, and what I, what I, what my, because I was trying to relate to my own perspective and what I thought was is because he was exposed

to dying and falling so often growing up, like imagine every time he went climbing as soon as you were a hundred feet in the air and there was rocks below you, if you fell, you die. Pretty much, that's what's gonna happen. So he would go into that fear of dying, like, I am gonna die. And when you put your body under,

and you maybe you can be interested to hear what you think about this, but because he was in that situation so often, so many times and didn't die, and the taxation on the system is so severe, right? Your so's taxed from that. The body has to recalibrate because the body, like, well, you didn't die the last thousand times you were in that situation, which you thought you were going to, and we had to be in fight or flight it with all the censories on it full blast. And we're gonna have to turn that down.

Right? I think the body would adapt. Like of course it would adapt. Why would it, why wouldn't it? It wouldn't just continue to allow every time you were in that position to be in that same state, and that have that taxation because it's hard on the system to do that.

Like when you're up like that, it's like, you know how that is. You come up, you come down. And so I think it started, and because I was saying for me, I got, I got close to drowning so often as a child, like so often, like getting sucked out to pipeline in the short break, being in a rip current and swimming against a rip current with no one around, no lifeguards, no people, and just, you know, being underwater and coming up and thinking, you and thinking, this is it, you're gonna die. And you've done that how many times you did.

Pretty soon your brain just goes, okay, well, you didn't die the last 500 times that you were in a rip current and you're gonna die. So we're gonna adjust that, especially when you're in your development stage of your life, right, especially when you're growing. It's like if you're an athlete and you grow up doing the sport that you're doing, your body will actually kind of grow to it,

right? It's different than I grew up full-age and then I start doing something. So I think that there's an adaptation. I know as a young kid that I was close to drowning once a week. Like it was like once a week, I was like, I thought I was gonna drown. Like you're gonna, you're being held under the water,

you can't get to the top. And I think fear of drowning is such a, you know, such a primal one. It's like eaten by giant animals burned, falling, drowning. Like I think there's like, I call them the primal fears, right? There's like probably five or 10 primal fears, but I know drownings up there. That's why people, that's why they do all that traumatic stuff with, with the, with the seal guys for like to break you.

Like they go, they throw you in the deep end with a bunch of weights on you and tell you drown because it's part of their, so it's part of that process of that, because that fear is so, and there's no air, which probably induces the fear even more. But I think that that's part of it. So I think I went through that so much, so many times growing up as I went that I'd started to make my, but I've been blown like in blown, I've been blown like, like, in a way, I've been blown like, like a landmine, like not a landmine, but like blown, like I got hit by a, like, I was surfing jaws and they were filming the new point break. And I had

a wave break behind me and blow me, like into the sky the sky like and then run me over after and fold me in half and then just hold me, hold me down underwater with power that I mean I think that it was if it was any other energy with that kind of power other than water probably would just rip me in half. It was just water. There was a forgiveness to it. But I think that the, you know, those, those, just those hold downs, those the consistent hold downs. I mean, okay, injury, hitting the head with this and hitting that thing and all this, all the wounds, but, but that, but the, you know, the, I mean, I felt, I've been in an avalanche. I felt through a, I mean, I felt I've been in an avalanche, I felt through a, I got pinned at the bottom of a waterfall.

So I was in, uh, I was in Oregon in this white salmon river and we were doing, there was a river rafting trip and we were, we were on this big raft and they stopped before this giant waterfall. There was a big waterfall that probably had like eight foot of volume. So like eight foot thick of volume going off this waterfall. And so I was like, they pulled the raft in,

they made us walk around and I said to the guy, well, can't we go off that thing? He goes, well, we don't go off that thing. And I go, what if I want to go off that, he goes, well, I can't stop you. And so I go, okay, so I swam out into the river and I swam right into the heart of it. And as I was going off, I was going off head first because I was going to go like that,

right. And I heard the guy yell, feet first from the shore, so I kind of rolled over and turned around and went, went feet first. And I went over the waterfall and I landed underwater on a big stone with the waterfall holding me down. So the waterfall. So I was on a stone with the waterfall just, just holding me like that and I was just and I was sitting there and I'm like and I was like, can't move and I tried to pray. I couldn't press and I was just sitting there and I just And I tried to, I couldn't press.

And I was just sitting there. And I just got a vision of a skeleton with a life preserver on it. That's what I saw on my head. I saw a skeleton. And then I had a life preserver, kind of raggedy life preserver. Like, I was just gonna be there.

Like I was stuck there. And I ended up, after not being able to move at all, I ended up after not being able to move at all. I ended up moving my leg. And when I moved my leg, it spun me out from the stone, spit me out of the back of the thing. And my friend was already swimming from the side below and the pool had come out to the, because I hadn't come up.

And I think for like, I don't know, a week or something on my shoulder blades and my whole back from where the water had just been, you know, holding me down like that just on my back. Just like had me pinned. I was like, so I had, I mean, I was just saying, I, you know, when I had a, I was in Russia one time, helicopter, snowboarding, and I was following

some crazy French guys, and the French guys are like, we had a big meeting and they said, you know, when you're walking, we're on these big cornices and there's these big giant things hanging off the cliff and they're hanging way out. It's probably like whatever, a couple hundred feet or more off the edge. And the guys like, okay, when we're walking on these things, if you see stones, you know, and you're walking on a cornice, if the stones are on your right, make sure you're on the

left side. If you're on that, you know, if the thing's hanging out. And I remember walking along and I'm following this French guy and I looked over and I saw a stone and I went, hey, and I just fell through the thing. I didn't fall off the thing, but I fell into the corner. So I fell down in this hole like on a rock ledge inside the thing.

Inside the thing. And I'm sitting there and the guys come running back and they put it a rope They pull me out and everything and then I just wanted to kill that guy after and I'm like I'm never listening to you again If you ever so after that from then on I was like yeah, don't care what he says I'm looking like you know, and I didn't know anything about the mountains But I wasn't gonna rely on the but I think I mean I've had so I think I just had a bunch of those But the water stuff happens so often, so much, growing up in the, you know, being sucked out

and being pinned on the bottom and, you know, a lot of drowning, a lot of drowning. Yeah. A lot of drowning, mostly drowning. You know, to your point about kind of the fear stuff overcoming fear and we're talking about the guy climbing I mean, I don't know that I don't know that man. I'm not heard of them But you know when it comes to the fear stuff, I mean

The second time you do it your brains telling you a day we've been here before You know and that third time and then again and and it creates, and in the other thing with fear, I mean, you're doing it every time you get into a situation like that, adrenaline dumps to help you overcome the fear, will he adrenaline? You know, you get addicted to that. And so how do you feel adrenaline? You got to find, put yourself in these situations, like you're talking about, and it becomes this cycle.

And then just like we talked about at the beginning, that becomes home for you. And so you'll recreate a situation where you're going to get adrenaline and a dopamine hit. And it just, it never ends. It never ends. You know, and I think that's a big part of it. You know, it's overcoming fear.

It's that initial exposure. All right, this is gonna suck. Okay, we survived it. And then this, like I said, the second time, it's like, oh, we've been here before third time now. This is home. Yeah. I like this.

I like getting out of this. And I think that plays a major role in exposure, well, having experience, having that be, having been there. I mean, you know how it's like the first time your point, your vision is like you're looking down the barrel, the second time, the third time, pretty soon, you're looking down the barrel the second time the third time pretty soon

you're seeing stuff in the peripheral in the corner over there just because you're you get you get more comfortable with that with that world right. The tunnel vision goes away. Yeah quickly I mean I've but not only through exposure the yeah the I mean Yeah, I think that transitioning into a constructive way to get those to deal with that same thing, like how do you, because that cycle, like, you know, we used to, and it's our verb, I mean, like I said, it's not, I can't ever compare because we're not, people aren't trying to kill us. But I can tell you that we have post-traumatic, we used to talk about post-traumatic big wave riding,

like when you were done, like in the beginning we weren't, we'd go get drunk and then just spiral down and do a negative abyss, it might be for two, could be as long as two weeks or more. And so we started becoming aware of it, that there was something that was real, like I said, no, this is a real thing. And then I'll say, hey, you know, do things to

nurture the system. Get sleep, eat good. You know, like do stuff to and also now we're sitting, we got control of it. And it wouldn't go as it was. The plane wouldn't dive as deep. We would pull the plane, you know, when the plane started burrowing in, we'd pull the plane up because we would we would we were conscious of it because it was a real thing. It's a real, I mean, I think whenever you're in that heightened, it's a taxation on the system, right? That the more, where you have to be and the longer that period is, the more energy you use. And you just, it's just, it's just, it's just math. And so at the end, you have to figure out, how do I, how do I support that?

They want to take my vitamins, eat good food, get good sleep, like do all the things that you do to help you, you know, and that's not, I mean, that's just only the, in the physical side, right? That's just the physical, I mean, we're not even beginning to deal with what you guys have, what you've seen and what you have to deal with the images and that stuff. But we're just dealing with this this year level of what the taxation on the system to be, you know, on full alert,

right? Yeah. Is there a, some things that all experience after, after a, after a big up, you know, or something like that, a big operation is there'll also be a certain amount of depression that hits because there was so much preparation for what you're getting ready to do. I mean, that's your entire life goal is to surf the jaws, or to go on this raid and wherever,

Afghanistan. And there's so much preparation and then when it's done, burrow in, it's, it's, well, shit, now what do we do? You know, it's, so there's the trauma, there's the post-traumatic stress, there's all these things happening, but there's the trauma, there's the post, the post-traumatic stress, there's all these things happening, but there's also the depression that kicks in because the preparation is over. It's onto the next thing and you feel like, what is the next thing? Is there going to be another thing? You know, and, and, um, and maybe you're happy with

your performance. Maybe you are not, you know, and I mean, all that plays in as well. But And maybe you're happy with your performance. Maybe you are not, you know what I mean, but all that plays in as well. But that, that was always something for me is, is all the preparation, everything in its emotional and in your doing it, you're in the moment it's happening. And then it's done. And you just don't know what to do with yourself. You know, when it's time. That's why I'm lucky. Yeah, we still with me. I mean, I have it from last week. I mean, yeah, it is. Again, I think, and you know, you know this is, again, the first time, plot harder. Second time. Not harder, but not as hard. Third time, I I mean again, I think you get a little better at that too I think you get a little bit better at that That's what I'm talking about being aware of that you're gonna go into a funk

You're gonna go into trest and you're gonna be down and that are you gonna do it again? Did you do a good enough like all that stuff? You know that's all that's that's I mean that's part of what you have to be aware of. You have to be honest with yourself that that's really happening because I think sometimes we're supposed to be, I don't know, you're thinking like, you shouldn't have that. Why? I mean, you did what you wanted to do and you got what you think, like, what's the point? I mean, you have to look at me and this is just from the ocean stuff. They show look at me after me like,

well, you just got to go the thing and you've what, like, what? Like, and you know, you know, you're like, you know, she's like, is that for real? Like, or I'm just like, you know, the next day I'm like, looking at the window, like, what the, what the conditions are doing, you know,

like, because you're onto the next, you know, you're onto the next, you're onto the next, you know, you're onto the next, you're onto the next thing. That brings up a question. So a lot of, I don't know what to say, maybe overachievers, maybe just really successful people when I'm starting to realize is is I don't celebrate successes. Do you like when you got done writing the jaws wave

or or the the one into heady? You know what what was your mindset afterwards? Was it all right shit we did this let's go celebrate i've just accomplished i've accomplished something something that nobody's accomplished or is it cool what's next what what do we got pretty what's next yeah pretty what's next i mean the jaws i mean, the jaw's, I mean, the, the topo wave was an emotional one. I think part of it was the was because of the intensity of that particular, that particular ride in that location was an emotional like, like, like, like, like cry tears, like, like have a little, but I think that was part of it was a, it was a not a success, a relief. It was a relief.

Like it was a relief. It was a relief. Like I was relieved that I had kind of gotten that off my back, like that, because I had been on my back, that had been on my back, and I felt the relief from it. Like I was relieved, but it wasn't like, oh yeah, okay, I just, not even close.

Like I was like, and it was automatically on to the next. I mean, that's pretty quickly. Like, what's the next thing? When's the next day? Where's the next place? Like the whole, you know, it's, and it's a terrible. I mean, I think it's natural. It just seems like pretty, it's a pretty,

which is the turnover is, is, is the turnover is, you have to, I think you have to learn. That's what I'm trying to use that as a learn from it, like to learn how to deal with that thing and not have it be a negative, a negative thing, like you have to be, to just remember the planes come, when you go to the high, the only thing that can happen is you go to the low and you just get that pull that plane out, just pull back on that stick and get that thing up. So it doesn't just go, you know, that, and I think that's again, we're, you know, taking good care of yourself, being healthy, and being okay with taking care of yourself. That's a big piece too, because I think we have a natural thing to not feel worthy. We don't feel like we deserve to be

taking care of ourselves. I think that's our not like it's built into us. And I think sometimes you have to learn that. You have to learn like it's okay to, you know, that yes, I did take that effort. Yes, you are having those feelings. Yes, you, it's okay to take care of yourself. I think that's something that, that, uh, part of being honest, you know, with yourself being honest with yourself. When, when you, when you rode the, I'm sorry, how do you pronounce the wave into heady? Teah, whoopo. Teah, whoopo. Teah, whoopo.

Teah, whoopo. Yep. To my understanding, that's the apex. There's nothing bigger. Is it? Well, that particular wave is, you know, it's the most defined and writable. So the line, there's some ambiguity

with some of the other waves where, you know, maybe you could catch one of these part, you know, there's a little bit of gray, that there was no gray in that wave, and especially at that time, that was such a clear cut line from writable and un writable. There was no mistake. It wasn't like, oh yeah, you know, you could have, no, no.

So that's, so the definition, like the, that wave was so defining at the, especially at that moment at that time, that there, the clarity was, there was no, there was no, the opinions were gone. Like, you know what I mean? Like, if even within it, if they tried to put some opinions about it, no, there was no, there was no,

there was worldwide acceptance, like, yeah, that was, that was it. Ridiculous, unbelievable, that's impossible, you couldn't do that. So where I'm going with this is we're talking about overcoming fear and you got to outdoing yourself and not being satisfied and not celebrating your successes and always just moving on to the next thing. When you hit that and rode that wave, I mean, what is it like to know there is not another location on Earth that you can outdo yourself on that wave.

There's nowhere else to go. What is, when did that hit you? Like shit, there's like, I just, there's, I have to go to another planet. You forgot to say the right thing. That there's no other place you can do that. But there's what haven't you done? What haven't you done? You did that and you can't outdo that. But what's next? Like what's the next thing you can do?

What's the next thing you can do that maybe hasn't been done? So, I know where you go. I know where you're going with this. So I'm the best at this. Now this is boring. Well, I gotta go find something else to do. Well, you did this thing. And I had it at JAWS, then we had the way it went.

It kind of, it was like a gold rush. Everybody came and it was to change the whole feeling. And then I was able to experience it at Teohupo. And then, so then it was like, okay, well, and you know, it's a tricky game, but it's like, can you walk away? Can you walk away from a thing that you've done that maybe you're known for, that you're good at,

or you know, can you are you able to, can you box and do you have to get knocked out before you quit? Or you don't even mean like in that sense? And for me, it was more like, well, no, I want to do something I haven't done yet. And for me to outdo what I have done, may or may not happen. Like there's a chance that I could spend the rest of my life trying to just outdo that moment, which definitely I never could, I can never get the first kiss back.

Yeah, do you never, the reliving, the trying to relive the same experience never works? No, because you can't have it be the same experience, because it was initial, initial like that was the first time that that was done, it had already been done. So now you're just doing it again on top of it being done. So you lose, you lost one of the elements, which is probably could be the primary element. And so for me, it's now it's like, okay, well, what haven't I done? And where does that where does that lead me? And so then that leads me to the next the next quest, which which is okay, big, long, fast, like these are other areas of interest. And so that's where the

pursuit comes. Now, just on that note, because I think you'll appreciate this. So there's a book called The Wave, right? And written by Susan Casey, who's an incredible writer, and she writes different books about different subjects. And then the book The Wave, there's a chapter or two about a day that we rode on Maui, which is not at Jaws, it's another location right by the airport, but it's a special wave that is the biggest waves that we've ever towed into. Okay, so, and there was no, it was a stormy day, there was no cameras, which is the irony because everything we had done, we've been documenting and we were getting tired of it.

I was getting tired of it. It was taking away part of the whole experience and I was just like I had said, I just would really like to have a day that we don't have a bunch of footage of it. We're not in the under the thing of getting footage of and then won't be critiqued. Like, because everybody can go, we'll look at this and compare this and do this thing and then it's always, you know, and it is the camera angle any good. And it's, first

of all, it never, you never have the footage or the films or the things be like it is. It just never is. You just cannot capture the essence of it. It's just like what you've done. And there's nothing, there's no way to document what you've done like doing it. There just isn't. I don't care.

VR, I don't care how elaborate it was. You couldn't do it. You just couldn't have it really be like what it is. So in my mind, I was like, I really hope to have this day, this like a day that's just for us, just for us. Like we're just me and my boys are gonna go out and we're gonna go do this thing

and we ended up having a crazy swell. That was the largest waves that we've ever towed surfboards onto. And so, which was a weird storm, it was an unique location. that was the largest waves that we've ever towed surfboards onto. Which was a weird storm. It was an unique location. Anyway, so in the book, she tells, she re-enacts the story. She writes about it. But I wrote a re-road days that we rode 100 foot waves. And I don't always make the statement because I'm against that number thing,

but it's everybody makes us such a big deal about the 100 footway of the 100 footway. I'm like, we already rode the 100 footway. We already rode that away, right? So you can talk all about what you wanted about the 100 footway of and trying to pursue and then, you know, they got the new 89 footway of Fingennis Book of World.

And that's cool, great. Okay, we rode 100 footways. I know we rode 100 footways. I was with the guys. I had my friends watch it. We know we rode a hundred foot waves. But what I learned on that day was that you can't descend on a hundred foot wave. If it's a real hundred foot wave because the amount of velocity that the water has won't let the board descend. There's so much friction. So at that point, no kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Because the speed of a of a true 100 foot wave, the speed of the wave and the amount of volume of water that's going up the face won't allow you to descend. The friction will, this, you'll descend, but you'll fall after once it takes you up. But I crashed on a wave, probably 80 foot wave,

maybe bigger. The guy, my friend, tried to rescue me. We got run over by a giant wave. He, we got annihilated. We were trying to run away from just a, probably a 80, 100 foot wave. Ran us down like a freight train. Blue the skis off, blue, blue us in.

We, we were, we were, I got driven probably, I wanna say more than a hundred, more than a football field, at least or more on one wave, one wave drove me out, at least more than a football field underwater. And then I came up, I got hit by another one, we eventually got pushed in.

My friend was almost unconscious, I got to him, he, we eventually got pushed in. My friend was almost unconscious. I got to him, he had a blow, his whole back of his leg was blown out. I turned it, I had a wetsuit on, I turned it his leg with my wetsuit, and then I had to swim naked to this jet ski, the jet ski was probably floating about a half mile away from us, I could see it floating, I went there,

got it jurorigated because it was losing the loss of the lanyard and got it started, got him, got him to the beach and put him in an ambulance. And then we went back out again. I got my other friend and we went and we went back out to because it was an opportunity that we might, and I've still yet to see one, an opportunity that we may never see again because we just, you know, I told somebody, they go, well, why'd you go back out? I said, it would be like if I said,

Toronto source Rex is running down the road out here. Do you wanna go see him? Yeah, you do. You would just like, you wouldn't miss that chance and then like, okay, my friends and I, I am relanced with the hospital. Cool, he's good, we're good, we're going back out. And I was hurt too, but not enough to not go out.

We went back out. But I learned on that day that the board, the equipment we were riding was insufficient to really try to truly 100 foot wave. And that's why I went to Hydrofiles. And I stopped to surfing at that moment. That was the end. I was like, I'm good, jaws is I'm good, I'm good, I'm good with all of it.

And I went and spent and moved back to my home island from Maui and just started riding hydrofoils and that's what I've been doing since. And so that was my whole thing because I knew that at that point that tool was inefficient and the only way that you could ride really the next level of mass was going to be with a hydrophoil. That was the tool and we're slowly working our way there. We're working our way to being able to do more and more and our ready hydrophoils have blown open the whole surfing world as far as waves that you can ride, places in the world that you can ride and things you can do. I've already done things on the hydrofoil that maybe aren't as spectacular as Chopu, but

there are things that I've never done that before. I've ridden ways for eight minutes. The long ride and surfing is a 22nd ride is like a monumental ride. That's the longest ride at the longest spot. And we rode, you know, we rode eight minutes, we ride, we ride ways for eight minutes. We ride waves that are completely unrideable, we ride, we were just doing all this stuff that we haven't.

And the speeds that we're going are far surpassing. The speeds we ever reached on the conventional board. So that's kind of my evolution. It's a little bit like that's where, that's where, and that's where I am right now. That's what I do. That's how I got my cut on my head. I got hit by a blade last week, but but yeah, so that's my so again, I think I'm blessed that I've been blessed to continue to because my desire to continue to look for new ways, it's like God is providing me new ways. You're invading.

You came up with the Hydrofoil. Well I took that foil that was for a chair behind a boat and mounted it on a board and then figured out we could ride the waves energy. That's what changed everything. I didn't invent the strut, the thing that flies, but what I did was I figured I made a hybrid that you stood on like surfing and then figured out that we could use it in the surf and that just what that did was completely revolutionize. And it's right now in our genre, it's the fastest growing discipline within surfing because it has so many, it has electric, it has wind power,

it has wind waves and then also bigger swell waves. So now what we're doing, we're in the process of looking throughout the world with places that have potential to ride giant surf, especially in the open ocean. So we want to, you know, we're going to look for some, you know, like when you see these movies of these big freighters in the open ocean where the waves are breaking on the bow, like that's the kind of thing that we would like to do. That's what we're working towards.

That's what we're working towards that. Being able to be, but we have to get to those locations, we have to be, but we can do it. We can, we've already began to scratch the surface. We know we can, and again, it's, you know, we might be able to ride away for 50 miles or 100 miles or more. We don't know. So there's all these other, you know,

what do we say where there's a will, there's a Sally, you know, where there's a will, there's always a, there's always something, but we're getting another, we're getting another thing to do like, and I think that would only happen if you didn't sit on your laurels, if you didn't sit back and be like, if you weren't, because if you're doing that, what are they, what are they, there's a great stuntman quote, never let your memories be bigger than your dreams. Never let your memories be bigger during a good thing. That's a great thing.

And I think if we're, as long as we're aspiring and we're looking to the future I think that's our and keeping our interests and our you know our enthusiasm I for me I feel like you know if somebody said what's the fountain of use youth? I think retaining your youthful enthusiasm like when you see a kid They're just interested in every single thing and every bite toy thing. They're just like, what's this? What's that? You know, it's like, and I think we get, I think as we go, we lose that. You know, we get kind of callous. I did that. You know, you meet guys are like, I did that. I thought there. I

did this. I did that. And it's like, you lose that whole thing. And, you know, you can change what it is. You can, that's ever evolving. It doesn't have to be in the, in the, in the genre. It doesn't have to be right in the thing. You can be some other thing, but you have to keep, you have, we have to keep being inspired. I mean, and, and, and what you're doing, I think, I think to be of service too, I think to be, it's like right now I have guys that younger guys that I work with that are, that are, you know, aspiring and, you know, and you can help them on their, on their God's journey, like help them with their, you know, maybe missing potholes and try to, you know, straighten it out where you can. I mean, for me, I feel like there's just,

and then take them, I'm able to, I have a young, I have a couple of veteran guys I'm working with, but I have a couple of younger, young guys that are, you know, that are, that we're bringing along into this thing, and for them it's gonna be normal. Like we're doing this thing that's for us, is, and then we're gonna step into it like, oh, I've been doing that since I was in my 20s

You know kind of thing. Yeah, yeah But reinventing yeah reinventing that's a there's no end to it. I think that really helps with with Happiness You know, it's it's the constant challenge. Gotta have it. The unillusive goal, it's always just kinda, so you're, and then,

because we need to be in pursuit. I think I just, I know, I mean, I listen, you need to be in pursuit. I need to be in pursuit. It's what we are, like we're in pursuit. And whatever we're pursuing, doesn't, it can be the, it can be spiritual, it can be emotional, it can be physical,

it can be a combination of all of them. But we need pursuit. We need to be, because if we're not pursuing, it's what it's byron Katie, she said, I'm never good when I'm in here. We need to be over there wherever that is. We need it. We have to, we have to. It's what we are. We have to get back to what we are. I think that's the thing. We've gone so far away from what we are. We just have to get back to that. We have to get back to the house. Yeah. Man, what a great discussion. Let's take a break and when we come back, we'll get into some biohacking. Perfect. Sounds good. Hockey later.

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conversation or the lengthiest conversation I've had is with you at breakfast today and this stuff is just fascinating to me. So where do we dive in to biohacking? was just fascinating to me. So where do we dive in to biohacking? How did you get in? I mean, I mean, the term is an interesting term. I mean, the truth for me, the truth about seems that everything that's going on, we're getting so science driven, right? We're so the data, the data, the data, the data, I'm just like, data, doubt. Like, like, when I, if I hear another data thing, it's like, I want to experience, like, give me experience. Like, I want to know, Hey, I've been doing this for this long, and it's done this. And but hacking, I mean, the whole concept of hacking,

I'm adverse to hacking your way through life when it means avoiding the work. When it means avoiding your work. And I think part of what's happening right now, especially in our culture is that we're like, hey, I'm just gonna bypass working out and I'm gonna take a pill, I'm gonna be in shape. It's like, you know, you're gonna work out, you're gonna get in shape, maybe you take a pill that helps you work out and I'm going to take a pill, I'm going to be in shape. It's like, you know, you're going to work out, you're going to get in shape, maybe you take a pill that helps you work out and get in shape. But you don't, so I feel like there's a lot

of, you know, and we're also having to, you know, we're having to make up for the fact that we're just not getting exposed to the environment. Like we have throughout our evolution, right? So we don't have enough physical work in the day, so now we have to go work out. We don't walk enough, so we have to be on a treadmill. We don't do the things, so now we, you know, it's like we're, everything, everywhere you look, we're trying to do, you know, we're trying to make up for the fact

that we're not getting what we would be getting if we were more in our biological state, right? We would be getting all the things, but there are some cool, I'd say, there are some interesting, and I don't know, I mean, I know about hacking in the sense of what I do myself and what I implement and what, as I go at what I learn. Now, I mean, you could, you could talk about all different types of hacking.

I mean, in a way, good breath work is a form of a hack, right? Like being able to do the right patterns and, you know, and ice and heat or hacks. I mean, those are, those are, those are crazy good hacks. I would imagine certain supplementation is a hack. Red bed, the red beds are hacks. The vibrational stuff, the, I mean, these are all things that we're having to do.

You know, we're not getting as much sun exposure. So now we can do, you can do, you know, infrared and other types of red therapy, which have some incredible effects on your mitochondria. They can totally like re, you know, I, the best way to describe the red light therapy stuff is it's really based on recharging your batteries. So you might have a condra or like your batteries

of your body, and then you can recharge them through the red light therapy stuff. Really? Yeah, so you can read, because your mitochondria are like batteries, and they hold the electrical charge in your body, and they get depleted, so you can reboot, you can reboot your mitochondria

through, they have red beds, they have just red, red, you know, I mean infrared sauna will kind of do it as well because again it's infrared, so infrared light, but sunlight is infrared light. Like I do a thing called solar gazing and I've done that for probably 20 more than 20 years and you, it's where you go in the morning when the sun first rises and right when it breaks the horizon, you do it in a place that you have a nice horizon, but when the sun first rises and right when it breaks the horizon, you do it in a place that you have a nice horizon. But when the sun first breaks the horizon, you look directly at it and then it affects your hormone levels

in your body and it actually, and I don't know all the scientific data, but I know that there's some effect on your melatonin that melatonin is created in the retinas in the eye that help you sleep. But I always say, yeah, if you wake up in the morning early enough to see the sunrise, you're probably gonna sleep well

because you've been up all day. Right. So, but there are a bunch of physiological things that benefits that you get through looking at the sun in the morning when it first rises, right? And there's a reason why, and I talk about, there's a reason why sun rises and sunsets are beautiful, right?

Why are they beautiful? Well, they're beautiful because they're good for you. So we looked at them because they were good for us, and then we translated that into because they were good for us and then we translated that into they were good looking. So people, you don't just look at them like people go, well, they're pretty. Well, nothing in nature happens for no reason. You're not looking at something because it's pretty.

There's either has some intrinsic value, there's some benefit, right? You're looking at the sun in the sunrise in the sunset. The atmosphere of the planet is thick. It takes out the ultraviolet, which is the harmful rays, and lets the infrared come in, and then you absorb that. So you're, you know, if you were, if it was bad for you, you wouldn't be able to look at it. Like you, if you looked at the sun and it was too bright, you were like, oh yeah, but you're not going to look at the sun. If it's damaging your eyes. Like I'm just saying we have so many misnomers and so much stuff that's based around

fear-based stuff, but the heat in the ice as far as two of the most profound hacks that you can do. Think about cold and hot. Think about a cold stream. I mean, how much exposure have we had to fires? Even fire has incredible light for you, incredible infrared light, like looking, having a candle in your room or even looking at a fireplace. When fire, fire so mesmerizing, you're actually getting infrared from the fire. No kidding. I did not know that.

Yeah, you after you go, oh yeah, it's mesmerizing. Well, yeah, but it's beneficial than it's mesmerizing. It goes back to, like I said, most things in nature that we have these things like why is looking at the horizon, like why are we interested in that? Why are we interested in, there's a great book called the Blue Zone, which talks all about the being near the ocean and what that does to your brain when you're able to see the horizon and how good that is for your mind. I mean, there's so many things. Why is it good? It settles the brain itself. I don't know if it's

because of the line or what the whole distance does, the distance does, but there's a whole, like a systemic effect on the brain that looking at the horizon gives you that line and that, you know, that, which is why people desire to live on the ocean. They don't even know why. They think, oh, you wanna listen to that water, but meanwhile, the horizons doing something to your brain.

Something about your equilibrium, I can imagine, the horizons doing something to your brain. Something about your equilibrium, I can imagine it's probably has something to do with the stabilization of your, you know, you're not looking at a shape like that, you're looking at something about this, helps your equilibrium. You're resting. Yeah, I'm just, how long have you been into this biohacking stuff?

I mean, it's important, I mean, the average life expectancy for an American now is only 76 years old. Yeah, and going down, huh? Like, I think going down. You know, again, I mean, there's different, there's biohacking, there's biohacking, which is deals more on the scientific side, like medication, taking certain supplements. I'm on the nature side of biohacking, right? So I'm on the, that's my, I look to nature, you know, that's like with super food. It's the same thing I'm looking for.

Nature made everything's in the perfect ratios. We don't need to create extractions. And I mean, a lot of the stuff that we do is based around trying to patent it or trying to control the ingredients so you can charge more. And I'm like, well, everything in nature is made at the perfect ratios. You don't need to, in fact, when we do mess with it, it actually is confusing for the system.

So, I mean, you could say certain forms of supplementation are biohacking, obviously. Again, you know, I mean, you have, I mean, you have, you, I mean, there's a lot of stuff with stem cell and there's a lot of these other things. I'm less interested in that. I'm less interested in those things as much as I'm interested in you know in in herbs that get you know You have herbs that can help produce testosterone Even just getting your body in cold water Boost testosterone and produces you know you can do DMT for breath work

You know you have to supplement you have to you have to supplement Minerals because our food doesn't have it, you know, you have to supplement. You have to, you have to supplement minerals because our food doesn't have it. You know, we have to, we don't get enough sun. So most of us need, you know, the three best, I'd say the three best vitamins that you can take and of course the quality does matter, but C, Z, D, and zinc.

So those, it's Chorsatin. So Chorsatin is a C, D, Z, and zinc are the, and then magnesium is another one. Like there's a few things that are really that we need to supplement, which you could call a hack or not, but it's making up. I mean, really, I think a hack, I would describe a hack is making up for something that you're not getting normally

because you're not in your nature. You're not in nature and you're not in your nature. You're having a supplement for something for you, something you should be getting. Well, you're lacking natural. Yeah, you should be getting it in your food or in your environment and your and your not. And the sun is a big piece of that. Even in your, even the lighting in your house, I mean,

there's a bunch of stuff around the lighting. I mean, I would describe like I have cold rooms, I have chili pads or there's a thing called eight cloud that affects the temperature of your bed. So make the bed really cold. That's a huge, really huge beneficial one for sleeping, like has a profound effect in your sleep. I've been doing that for a long time. So I have a pad that's on my bed that makes cold water go through it that makes the bed really cold.

And especially if you're a high metabolism guy, you just, you sleep like a stone when you do that. You know, that's another cold room, cold dark. You know, there's just, let me focus in a little bit on the biology of breathing. Okay. Because you had a, you really had some good stuff you were talking about with breath work.

Yes, sir. How do you get with breath work. Yes, sir. How do you get into breath work? Well, first of all, the most important thing you can do is focus on breathing through your nose. That's your, and learn how to breathe through your nose in your sleep. That would probably have more profound effect on your health than almost anything you could do. Why is that?

Well, one thing is a reduction of volume. So when you read through your nose, you reduce the volume of air that you Well, one thing is it is a reduction of volume. So when you read through your nose, you reduce the volume of air that you breathe, which increases your CO2 levels, which means that you absorb more oxygen because the CO2 is the marker to absorb oxygen. So when the body is CO2 saturated, that's when the cells absorb the oxygen. And so when you're constantly scrubbing your CO2, the body does the cells don't absorb the oxygen as well. Like you can have blood oxygen, like you can be, you know, I mean, this is how I understand it. And I'm not a scientist, I always, you know, preface it with that. I just understand it through what I've learned and what I do.

And somebody go, oh, the data, this and that, I go, well, listen, you have oxygen and you have CO2, right? And the CO2 is the exhale, right? That's your exhale. And when you breathe through your mouth, you're constantly exhaling volume, which keeps the CO2 level really low, which doesn't allow the body to absorb the cells to absorb the oxygen. You might have, you know, 98% blood oxygen level in the blood, but the cells aren't getting it.

And so the cells don't absorb it unless the CO2 rises. Some somewhere in the last 150 to 200 years, we stopped breathing through our noses and we started breathing through our mouths. and made our jaw get smaller. It affects our dental dental hygiene as well because we have oxidation in our mouth through the oxygen. And so there, I mean we have an XBT. I have a fitness thing called XBT. We have a breathing app on XBT that gives you a bunch of modalities. There are a bunch of breath work like modalities, which you have apnea, you have pranayama, you have holotropic, you know, you,

you, you, Wim Hof is a, does a bunch of breath work that's based from tumo, which is a Himalayan breathing technique. So you have, you know, you got pranayama, you just have a ton of, you just have tons of techniques. Different ones do different things, but nose breathing in general, because first of all, your sinus is a mitogascolytic oxide, which is a vasodilator, so it helps your body absorb oxygen. So when you breathe through your nose, your sinus actually, first of all, it filters the air. If the air is hot, it cools it.

If it's cool, it heats it. So it's like the air conditioner for your air, for your lungs. So that's, first of all, that's the first thing. Second thing is, is that it produces this gas that goes into your lung that helps you absorb the oxygen. So it actually is helping your body absorb oxygen. The nose breathing does. And then you can control all of your, you can control a bunch of different, you can, you know, you ever heard of the Hawka? No, I haven't. So the Haka is a breathing pattern that the New Zealand All Black rugby team does. It's this like a breathing chant.

I mean, I tell somebody, go, you know when you hear a lion roar, like you hear a lion roar, yeah. Well, the lion, first of all, is giving everybody a warning, right? But he's also giving exhaling, which is preparing him for battle. So it's preparing him to be a to a grass by scrubbing his, getting his CO2 out, and getting him ready to battle. If you think about an athletic event, you're running full speed as fast as you can, and the body's producing

CO2. And that's why you're breathing increases because you're trying to get that air out, right? That's like your exhaust. So CO2 is the exhaust. Okay. And so the more you can adapt to high CO2 levels, the better off your health is going to be. Like it's what happens at altitude. Like if you go to altitude, you get CO2 saturation. And if you're not CO2 tolerant, that's when you get all loopy. And all somebody that is altitude acclimated is actually CO2 tolerant.

Now, when you read through your nose, you reduce the volume of exhale, which increases your CO2, which makes you more CO2 tolerant. Now, when you read through your nose, you reduce the volume of exhale, which increases your CO2, which makes you more CO2 tolerant. So our whole thing is to become more CO2 tolerant. The result of that is that you become athletic, it helps your athletic, it helps your overall health. There's a bunch of health benefits. There's some beautiful books called Breathe,

the Oxygen Advantage. I mean, there's some really good podcasting, good books around breathing itself, but it's also a way, I call it manual meditation. There's some ways to manually meditate that you can do through these certain patterns where you load up the oxygen, you use lower the CO2, you breath hold,

the breath holds build the CO2 up, then you, then you, which makes you absorb oxygen. And so you play with the two, right? You're playing with oxygen and CO2, but it's the most, you know, if you looked at our existence and you said, okay, you could not eat for a week or two, no problem. You can, I can tell you that.

I've done it, you could not eat and you'll be okay. You could not You can. I can tell you that. I've done it. You cannot eat and you'll be okay. You cannot drink water for days and you're going to still make it. But you can only not breathe for minutes. So as far as a priority for existence, breathing is the most important element that keeps us alive. Number one. And our relationship with our breath is so non-existent.

The most important thing you can do is begin to get a relationship with your breath. It's just that, like we do a lot of stuff around with. What does that mean of relationship with your breath? What do you, what does that mean? It means have conscious breathing, like, It means have conscious breathing. Like, to springing consciousness to your breath, right?

Just bringing breathing in a way where you're thinking about your breath, you're breathing in and out, you're just your habit-wear-dust, you're breathing through your nose, you're aware enough that you're breathing in and out through your nose. Like you're, or you're breathing in through your nose and out through your mouth. Like you're, you just bring, you bring, you bring a relationship because otherwise you're walking around, you're not even thinking about breathing. Like you don't want to think about breathing.

They're not thinking, like 90% of the people, I'll go somewhere, I'll give, I'll take people through a breathing pattern and I'll tell people, you know, breathe like you're running down a mountain, they'll be going to guess. I'm like, that's not a very fast run. Like you, like breathe, like you're,

like have a relationship with your breathing because that oxygen, I mean, first of all, oxygen and the relationship to all of the body functioned. It's like number one. Number one, number one, top of the list, most important thing that you can do. Then we get into okay eating and working out and all those other things, but breathing.

And breathing is free. You own it. And you can, it's like to bring you out of anxiety, to bring you out of any kind of angst. I mean, you can bring kids out of your angst, bring, I mean, you can definitely affect like you're somebody's all tense and you get them to just do a simple pattern. As soon as you extend your breath

beyond six to seven seconds, inhale, exhale, like as soon as you go. Ah. I mean, that is a down regular. You just go, all right. If you're going, that's ramp up. So ramp up ramp down, you can totally, you can totally start to play with your system that way. And that has a systemic effect on your health.

Like I don't think we can even understand how important that relationship is with our overall health. We just don't, you know, I mean, of course, in a lot of disciplines of meditation, it's all about the breath. It's all about the breathing, right? So it's just a way to go. I mean, and there's plenty of patterns you can get.

Like I said, we have an app on exptlife.com as an app that takes you through probably, you know, there are 10 different patterns, some are 20, 30, 40 minutes. I mean, I'll take people through an hour long breath pattern and they'll see ancestors. They'll have like, they'll have full out of body experiences for real.

They'll have like DMT, because you can release a natural DMT get your ancestors. They'll have like, they'll have a whole out of body experience, it's for real. Like they'll have like DMT, because you can release a natural DMT through your system if you do the patterns correctly without a doubt. If you have vaccinations. Yeah, absolutely. Like harder to do it unless you're being walked through it. Like if it's easier when somebody else is carrying the thing than when you're doing it yourself. And harder now that I've been doing it longer, it's easier when somebody else is carrying the thing than when you're doing it yourself and harder now that I've been doing it

longer, it's hard becomes harder and harder. You have to put more stress on the system, but we have some decompression drills that we do and some other just some other patterns that but if you again when you start to play with the with with with the breath Remember that breath is Breath in spirit, you know, I think we talked about this you know at breakfast is that breath in spirit are pretty synonymous If you look at most indigenous tribes They always have a relationship with you know, they call it the breath of life, right? And so you're talking about breathing and being alive

or, you know, normally when somebody stops breathing, they're, they think they're dead, like that's what's happening. And so that relationship between breath and spirit are pretty synonymous. And so that's why I, that's why all the meditation and all the deep kind of monk. I mean, they have monks that heat blankets, you know, that they can do a pattern that can heat,

they dry wet blankets in the home of Laez where they guys sits naked and they take these blankets and they wet blankets and put them on them and just through a pattern, they heat up their system, they can get their system so heated up that they can dry a blanket. Like that's how that's how powerful the breath is. So the breath is, the breath is, I mean, it's not a, it's not a,

and again, it's just right there, right? It's you're overlooking it as being important. It's not, you're not putting it, you're not walking around going. Here's what I'm going to do. You just breathe in through your mouth in and out. You don't even, you're not even correlating the two. And so I mean, to have a breath practice on a regular basis is, I mean, I believe certain things like running and cycling are actually a way to force breathe I believe certain things like running and cycling are actually a way to forced breathe.

That the body likes it so much, it gets people into, like, why are people so possessed with running? Well, you get a high from running. Well, why do you get a high from running? We get a high from running because you're breathing. It's like, so I think there's a connection. I think we think it's about, oh, I'm all into this thing,

but it's actually force breathing. That these patterns, these biking and these running and all this cardio activity is really just force breathing because people don't have the discipline to actually implement the breathing themselves. So like I said, it's the one that's right in front of you. It's sitting right in front of you. And people do, I mean, they do all kinds of crazy stuff with breath work. I mean, it's guy, you know, I think they've done some bacteria,

you know, kill bacteria and, you know, all this, I mean, you can definitely oxygenate the system in a way that will help your health. Wow. What is your daily routine with breath work? Well, first of all, I have some force techniques which pool training is probably the simplest manual way. Now, I'll do patterns, I'll do, I'll do,

I'll do a couple of times a week, I'll just do a breath pattern on the deck. Now, I usually don't do any. I don't do apnea breathing, which if you understand what apnea is, it's like free diving, what they do for free diving. So free diving, and they say they don't, but you do.

They say they don't, but there's kind of no way around it, but you can actually scrub your breath through hypervinal, a type of hypervinal. And they also get used to really being having a very, very high acidity. So they get used to being really acidic, which is really high CO2 level, which happens after a long breath hold. But you scrub the CO2 and you oxygenate the system. And so what happens is as you burn the oxygen, the CO2 comes up, once you do that, once you lower the CO2 through hyperventilation

or just certain patterns, like I'd say, you do an apnea pattern where you're going, something like something where you're exhaling quite a bit. You lower the CO2, you can extend breath holding for a very long time. Now, we never do that in the water because you have brisket shallow water blackout. And we're averse to shallow water blackout.

So we operate more towards doing, if you're gonna do anything like apnea or one of those patterns, we do that on the pool deck. So we'll do the breath work on the deck. Because if you go out on the deck, no problem. We do that on the pool deck. So we'll do the breath work on the deck because if you go out on the deck, no problem, you come to on the deck. It's not an issue, but I'll do a pattern, a combination of tubo,

Wim Hof, Tumo, with Apnea and a couple other other modalities implemented. It's kind of a, I call it Scrabble Degs, but it'll be maybe a, I call it scramble digs, but it's, it'll be maybe a minute straight of nose mouth, so a minute of in nose out mouth, and then once you get through that, then we do a breath hold on an exhale, so exhale hold for maybe a minute, so you completely let all the air out and hold hold for a minute. Then inhale three or nose, hold for 30 seconds, then go back into that exhale nose mouth, exhale reload again, then do another exhale hold. Again, reload again,

then do maybe reload a little longer than do an inhale hold for up three, four minutes, and then go and then reload again and then do some broken up patterns where we're doing, like, in for 15 to 20 seconds, holding for 15, out for 15 to 20, in for 15 to 20, and so on. And then just do that as a pattern, and then come back around and do a couple, exhale, hold, inhale, holds, and just play with those, with those reloads.

Maybe really try to load up or you can do one that's called holotropic, which takes effort and people have, it's very useful for therapy. They do a lot of therapy with holotropic, which is usually is all mouth and it's just like, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, you know,

you do all mouth in and out and you do that for 30 minutes and you will Take a ride. Wow. What what what what kind of stuff? I mean does this Help with stress levels or what is this help? I'm absolutely nothing it doesn't help with nothing There's nothing it doesn't help with like first of, a nitric oxide is a vasodialator, like Viagra. So it vasodialates the system. And the breath, there's nothing that this doesn't help with your sleep, help with your digestion,

help with your, help with everything. And truthfully, if you do breath work on a regular basis, your cardiovascular capacity increases. I mean, there's no, there's nothing it doesn't help with. It helps with your total physiology. Let's talk about the healing power of nature. Oh, yeah. Well, actually, let me, let me backtrack just one back practice one question just came to my mind.

How long have you been doing breath work? Well, I've been doing, well, first of all, we used to do like in the summertime, one of the things that we did when we were younger was we run with stones on the bottom. So we carry a stone. You run along the bottom and then the other guy swims and you do that in the summer for training. And then I would start to do for big wave stuff, we had things that we were naturally doing, which was a form of breath work already. So we would do cardio vascular, like run between, you know, coconut trees or something on the beach and then every, and then you know, coconut trees or something on the beach. And then every, and then you breathe, you know, hold your breath for 15 seconds or 30,

you know, 15, let's say do a 15 second breath hold run with a 30 second breath hold breath, 30 second breath hold run. But you know, it do like incremented breath holds throughout cardiovascular. So that started as a kid. And I think because of the ocean and being around water, but my, my

real, I would say my real kind of breathing, so-called disciplines or modalities when I've gotten interested. I did some in yoga when I started doing yoga when I was younger in my 20s and 30s. And then, and then only in the last probably 10 years have I done real, these more modalities where I'm doing specific patterns. Different techniques and stuff. What is the reason I'm asking is, what is some of the things, what did you get out of it? What are some of the immediate benefits that you were like, oh, What did you get out of it? What are some of the immediate benefits that you were like, oh, well instantaneously,

I got a feeling of wellness, a feeling of calmness, like a real feeling, like a real tranquil, you know, like a real settled. Okay. That was the most obviously initially right away. And then I began feeling the benefits of in athletics, like in cardio, like when I'm biking or when I'm doing some activity,

my ability just to perform, like my ability that I was just taking, I was having to, I just had another gear. I had another new gear that I didn't have. It was just taking me, I wasn't breathing as hard to do the same activity I was saying I was just more efficient my breathing was more efficient and I didn't and I could start to do stuff Actually breathing my note through my nose

So a lot of times like I can do you know do do a pretty intense cardio thing just Breathing through the in and out the nose mouth, you know and, and then and then use the big hole when you really need it Like when you're really trying to go as I got to somebody go What do you do when you want to make a car faster? You just let more air in, you know, or let more air out So it's this thing of yourself as a motor you start letting more air in and more air out what happens And the only way there can be more is if you actually use less in the beginning. So if you go, if you're always at the mouth, then you're always at the most, you don't really get the benefit.

So when you start really incorporating the nose, then you get, you know, other than it, you know, the emitted, the emitters of the gas and the absorption and the, you just get mental clarity and I mean, you, you'll see a visual thing like if I take, take you through a pattern and we do a thing, you'll see a visual thing like if I take you through a pattern and we do a thing you'll see like oh man things are clearer they're more rich like the the visual like you get enhanced vision stuff just from the brain being oxygenated so you just get more you're just getting oxygen into places in your body that it's normally not getting because you're you know you're infusing it you're CO2. Interesting. Very interesting.

I'm gonna, where would people start? If they would. Like I said, XPTlife.com has a good app in there. Or you just search online for a good breathing app. Some of them are kind of not as great because they're like, they just have a mechanical pattern. Breathe in, breathe out. Breathe in, breathe out.

And it's kind of, it's not as good as somebody talking you through. I mean, we have some nice ones that people talk you through, but there are plenty. I mean, there's beyond stuff about breathing. You get into breathing. But I would start, I would start with something, you know, just a simple, a simple pattern. I would go to, you know, some kind of apnea or some kind of one of those patterns just to begin to feel the benefits and start to do it. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's real. Like, it's a real like, it's, it's real work and it's, and it's, as a tool, it's really good to just have that in your pocket. Like, little, hey, you know what, I'm feeling all this little that little breathing and all of a sudden I mean if you look at a sigh, think about a sigh, so when you go

I mean you think what a sigh does a sigh is just like Just a down regulator so you get a little your little angst take a big breath take a sigh It's like all of a sudden and there there's actually I saw a video of a, like an ultrasound video of your diaphragm when you exhale, comes up as the heart was beating, comes up and touches the heart, the heart just totally slows down. Are you serious? Wow. The diaphragm comes up and touches the heart. And as soon as it touches the heart, the heart just goes, just touches the heart. And as soon as it touches the heart, the heart just goes, and just totally slows down. It was like, but you can see it when you sigh.

Like when you go, like you take a big breath and then you just go, ah, I mean, it just, you just, yeah, down regular. So all those patterns have a different, you can rev up, you can rev down, you can rev down, you can, I mean, it's a super, super useful tool. That interesting. I'm gonna, I gotta get into that. Yeah, you're gonna give me, I'm, you're gonna give me the results. I'm gonna, you're gonna call me and be like,

Hey man, that stuff's awesome. Seriously. I will. Seriously. When I come out there, we gotta do this. Yeah. We gotta get out there. No, I'll walk you through a view, you'll, I had fun for me because I get to I get to take people on a little ride sometimes

and they always have you just have all kinds of effects on your system that because you're getting first What you're getting a certified in a way that's more acidic than you used to and then you're getting oxygen in a way that More than you used to so you your body's doing all kind of you're like what's even lips are twitching and people are your body doing all kind of, you're like, what's even lips are twitching and people are seeing things and it's good school. That's awesome. Let's talk about the healing power of nature. That's something that you're a big proponent of and so you just like to dive into that. The first of all green, the color green has the most shades of any color but it's also

really soothing on the brain. Like, looking at a landscape, they've done studies where people look at landscapes and just the effect that it has on just your spirit and calms you. I mean, it's nature is, I mean, other than just being in it, I mean, there's, there's, you know, like I said, the visual alone, the sounds, the, the, the oxygen, I mean, you know, it's like trees are making oxygen.

You go for a forest, you're like, go through a forest, you're like, oh my gosh, am I appetite increase and my metabolism and my, you know, and, and, and I think there's something, there's something about nature in a way that that you feel that you're because you're from nature, that you feel so included. I think when you're in man-made things, you don't have that same feeling, you don't feel included, you don't feel like you're part of or from. And I think when you're in nature-made things, you don't have that same feeling, you don't feel included, you don't feel like you're part of or from.

And I think when you're in nature, no matter what, you feel like you're just, you're from it, you're part of it. And if you don't, you just need to spend a little more time. But it's, I mean, I know that what it does for me, I know, I've seen what, how people benefit. And I think the more, you know, the more alive it is,

I mean, you know, the, the, you know, walk through the forest of sunrise, a sunset, a stream, the birds, the, I mean, it's just, I mean, it's creation. It's your, you're, you're, you're putting yourself in creation and, and it brings you, I mean, I always pull Gabby out at night. I sunrise sunset, moon stars. It's like, I mean, it's just a reminder that you're part

of something, well, I always say, first of all, to elaborate, to elaborate. When you see nature, it's just too elaborate, to not, to be not just something by coincidence. How could it, like something not elaborate, that sophisticated, that, that amazing, that massive, that to be coincidence? Like, come on. Like, come on. Come on. Come on.

Two elaborate. So, I think that puts you in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in the right state of mind. Like, I think when you're in that state of mind, I think you're in a better, that's a good state of mind to be here. Like to be dealing with all the stuff, to be dealing with family, to be dealing with work, to be dealing with all that stuff. I think that state of mind of looking at it,

the sophistication, the elegance, the beauty, the power, the all of the savageness, the elegance, the beauty, the power, the all of the savageness, all of it, it's just, I think that puts you in the state of mind to have a sense of being, have a sense of that you're part of something, that you're part of, you know, I mean, we don't feel like part of something

any other time, especially not with all the stuff we made, you don't feel like you're part of something. You feel like you're separated from everything when you're in the stuff that we've created. You don't feel like you're part of it. I mean, it's still, there's some amazing things that man has created, but it's not, I mean, can you compare us in?

Come on, it's like, you're talking about, you know, child's play compared to like this thing. It's like, I mean, I always feel better, you know, when I come out of nature, get out of the brat race, get out of the man-made stuff. I mean, that's part of the reason why we moved to Tennessee. It was for that more rural and to get out and live in it. Yeah, what's close here too, you're surrounded by it.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I got, when I looked up this, and I saw the sunrise this morning on those hills, I was like, oh, yeah, this is, that's why it's, that's why calling people. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think the ocean, obviously, it has a special place for me because of the, I mean, what it's been my greatest teacher, you know, it's been my, it's been, I went to the, I always say, you think, I MIT is good, you should see the Pacific Ocean, man. It's like this, you know, it's another, it's something, something so beyond really our level of understanding. I think it's just that we don't have the capacity to

fully understand it and understand, you know, what that, what it is and how sophisticated and powerful and scary and, you know, just, I think every, I think all my, I know I've been blessed so much by the ocean, everything I, you know, everything I am and have is some indirect part of the ocean. And so I owe it my life. And, you know, it's, but it's, but it's all, we're all connected. It's all part of the, you know, the globe. Oh yeah.

Well, speaking of water, let's get into that. Do you know anything about water absorption into the body? I've started looking into this a little bit. Yeah. I mean, I only know, well, I know that we just don't get the minerals that we need in our system. And I know that there's a relationship.

I mean, water is really elaborate. I think we still don't fully understand water. I'm fascinated by it, but we don't, I mean, the fact that water can, you know, go through all these different elemental phases, its gas, its liquid, it's hard, it's hard. I mean, if ice didn't float, then there would be no life. I mean, it's like, it's just the thing.

And then, and then, you know, I have vortators at my house that vortate the water and, I mean, there's all this water. What is a vortator? It spins the water. So it spins the water and changes the shape. The. I have that. Yeah, I just got one a couple months ago. Yeah.

And that's where I was hoping you were going to go into. Can you taste the difference? I do. I taste a difference. I feel different. I feel my hands feel different after I taste a difference. I feel different for the shower, my hands feel different after I wash my hands. And so the way. So I started looking into this. All the all the shit that's in public utilities. And I read an article that calcium from the public water system will caked here,

petal gland, which is a floraid. Cossified. Chlorid, fluoride, it calcifies up by neogland. Yeah, there's a big case right now on fluoride. Really? Big one. And there have been holding it back for a little while. There's a case, I'll send you this stuff.

I'll let you see it. It's about getting the floor. They have a bunch of studies, they want to get the floor I'd pulled out of our supplies. It's a calcification, like you said, of the pineal gland, which is your antenna. Yeah. Yeah. So, the way it was described, so I got this filtration system. It's, I've never had one before. It seems pretty elaborate, but it goes through three filters and then it goes through a

indicator. A forkator spins the water the way they call it a bio-dynamized system, like that. But it's rotating it. Yep, and so the way it was described to me is if you crystallize water in nature, it will look beautiful, be perfectly symmetrical and be perfect crystallization of water, beautiful, symmetrical. If you take tap water and crystallize it, it looks like shit. It's not symmetrical. It's not it's not beautiful elaborate or any of that. And so the way it was described is that

your cells can't absorb that water. Yeah, the way the way it comes out. So, but it can absorb something from nature. Yeah, you know, when it's when it's crystallized perfectly. And so, what this filtration system does, it goes through two filters, then it goes through the bio-dynamizer, the bio-dynamizer, tricks the water somehow to where it thinks that it has come out of nature. And when you crystallize it after it comes out of it, when it has the spin, it's a perfect crystallization. So your body absorbs it the way it's supposed to. And yeah.

Well, there's some crazy books about water and they're about where this one Japanese scientist plays music, different kinds of music, and shows different pictures to water and then takes pictures of the crystals. And then the one that they show, like some negative hard rock, gnarly music or some other bad evil picture,

though the crystals are completely deformed and the one that they show like Mozart or they show picture of Jesus or it's like completely like a elaborate pattern. So it's like it's like some real radical stuff like how much of a conductor water is of energy and that part of what happens to is they're vortating it because the 90 degree angles kill the vortation and so everything in the rivers and everything and the thing is vortating it. In fact, you're all your fascia's vortates around your body and so does your like your urine when it comes out it's

vortating the blood through your veins. The blood doesn't just flow through your veins. It vortates through your veins, right? So everything is spinning literally spinning through your system. But the water, yeah, there's a bunch of, there's some crazy, there's a new product that they're supposedly coming out with, it's called, it's a special kind of thing that influences the other water. But the water is super, super conductive to energy. And it's so it's like the most conductive substance. And I'll show you, I'll send you the book. I'll tell you, tell you the book of the Japanese guy that did all the study, but they've done some radical studies with water. And they still are perplexed.

Water does some stuff that they just have are scratching their heads. Even today with all the technology that we have, we're having trouble even understanding. So one of the things that for sure works good too is we need, we need, we need other than that water, the rotation of the water, we definitely need to use minerals.

Like we definitely need, we're definitely mineral deficient. And that minerals help us absorb the water too. As well. Isn't it crazy how it's like we didn't know anything about all these elements in their natural state. So we manipulate them, you know, and whatever, and put calcium and fluoride and all this stuff into water and hormones in

the meat and pesticides and fertilizers and all these things. And now when we didn't even understand the natural state, obviously. And now here we are, who knows how many years later, I mean, this has been probably way before me or you ever came along, right? And now you're seeing this movement, at least I'm seeing it, this movement, I mean, layered superfoods, right? All the stuff we're talking about right now, biohacking. It's all coming back to, okay, all this shit that we put in everything that we thought,

you know, may have been beneficial turns out is horrible for you. It's all going right back to natural state. Right back to how it was made. Did a good job in the first time. Our audacity to think that somehow we're smarter than the creator or the creation. That's amazing. That's pretty, first of all, how dare us.

How dare us. But it is ironic that we're having to, hey, if you just went outside and if you just picked up a couple of stones and maybe we did some plants and did the thing and got this herb and made that tea and you know, swam in that river. And I mean, it's like all of a sudden, this is all, I mean, it's just ironic that we're, we're moved ourselves in, convened ties everything.

And now we're having to like go back and reenact. We're having to go back to just try to get back these things that we were naturally doing when we were, there's some, I heard a crazy statistic that they said that when we were hunter doing when we were, there's some, I heard a crazy statistic that they said that when we were 100 gatherers, that it took us about 38 hours a week to do everything we needed to do to survive.

No, good. And I'm like, now, I go, I go, 38 hours a week, I go right now, we're barely, I mean, we can't even 38 hours wouldn't get us halfway through the work week. No kidding, man. Crazy. No kidding.

But yet with all the conveniences, so somehow everything so could mean it yet, it takes us more time than ever to, you know, oh yeah, I forgot my, you know, my code and I gotta read. I mean, how many, they have some crazy thing about stats on how long it takes people to punch in all their, all their little codes and all their stuff. Like's like minutes a day hours a month like that your action codes in. I don't even want to think about that. And we're having to re reenact like being out on the sunlight, drinking water

out of a river like a you know eating fish from the thing, you know, just all this, all this, all this stuff. But you do, I mean, it's, but we have to. We don't have a choice. We're not, we're not in a position to, to, we, we can laugh about it, but we, we, we don't have the luxury to not be conscious and aware of what's happening and make, and make a difference. Because we're just, we're the direction, the direction. We're headed out of all full speed and we got to, some of us have to turn the car left. We got to make a left or a right. Because right now, the way we're going, it doesn't look, it's, you know, it doesn't look good.

Doesn't look good. And so we need to, you know, we need to, and fortunately, what we do has, we do have nature there for us to, and so if we just let enough of it survive and then learn about it quick enough We might have a fighting chance because it's there. There's some there's some beautiful There's a my friend that I told you Susan Casey wrote a beautiful book about the ways But she also wrote one called the theworld. And there's the bottom of the ocean. And they discovered microbes down there that go through the blood brain barrier and

actually eat brain tumors. But it's just one example of the things that there are in nature to cure every single thing that we have. It's like, it's all there. If we just don't destroy it all, thing that we have. It's like, it's all there. If we just don't destroy it all, you know, it's like the Amazon probably had every cure that you could ever, for every single thing you ever had wrong. Yeah. Probably already had that. And I know between the bottom and the ocean, the bottom of the ocean is got everything. That's our, I call it the cloud. Everything that's ever existed is there. And so we need to learn more, but we also need to protect the last remaining things. Like that's part of our thing,

as I think we got to get into a protective mode around enough of, and the modalities based on that. We have to really try to work on protecting the last stuff around Chinese medicine and herbal medicine, and like all really try to, you know, work on protecting the last stuff around Chinese medicine and herbal medicine and like all this stuff about herbs and plants and native, all these native medicines that we, that, that have just been slowly going away and there's just still a few, you know, remaining things that we need that we can, because that's where it is.

It's all there. It's crazy how fast we're destroying it. You know, I mean, just a couple of minutes ago, I was telling you, we moved, we moved from South Florida to Tennessee to get out of destruction. Exactly. And we came here and now there's like this huge movement of all these people moving to Tennessee. This,, this state has grown 20% year after year sense COVID. And I'm just watching the nature, you destroyed, acre by acre, you know, what used to be a horizon of trees and rolling hills and creeks and rivers and streams is now

a subdivision where the houses are literally built five feet apart from each other. They're just stacking. What was that? I always ask, why do we have to do it? It's just, but it's.

Yup. Yup. Density makes the money. Yeah. Come on, you just put it, just give them some space so we can leave nature and also help people too. We're not great all-piled together like that.

I mean, some of us can handle it, but it's hard on you to be stat-dense on top of each other. I couldn't do it. Like, they may try this for that. If you want to, you can go to New York. Yeah, yeah. But if I heard you talk about water and compression before, I feel like I've-

Well, I talked about the pool training, that the compression of water allows the blood to flow through your lymphatic system in a very short time. Like, it normally takes like 24 hours to do that. So water compression is amazing on the, that's why swimmers don't really get sore. Like when you see swimmers swim and they swim,

if you did that much moving in a gym, you'd next day you'd be wounded. But swimmers, you'll get tired, but you don't get like muscle soreness like you do from like something like lifting. And so it's because of that compression and that flow. But there's a bunch of other benefits that that has around even traumatic some brain stuff around concussions that they're doing, yeah, like we're going down to the second atmosphere, I have some friends that are studying that stuff where they're like, you're jumping with weights, you go down in the deep end and then just jump up and down, but something about the water

flowing on your head is like flowing through the lymphatic system. So there's some, I mean the water, we know the water has healing powers, right? We know the healing powers of water are great. And I think we've just only, I mean, you get negative ions when waves are breaking in the ocean and you get all the, you absorb a lot of the minerals out of the solinity. I mean, I mean, I think the things that were, we don't even, again, back to, it's in nature. We just don't know it. Right. So we're just like, hey, I don't know, again, back to, it's in nature, we just don't know it. Right. So we're just like, hey, I don't know why, but I sure love to go. And meanwhile, if you,

you know, if it's not some negative, bad habit, the part of the reason why people are attracted to these environments and these situations are because they're getting some physiological benefit. They're getting a benefit from it. Without even knowing, they just intuitively feel it. They sense it. They're like, oh, why do I, oh, I love to go to the, you know, on that walk or that hike or swim in that stream or go in that ocean or look at that horizon or, I mean, but then after you look at the science behind it and you're like, well, that's because you get this, you know, it's like, but you intuitively know it. It's in built-in year, it's built-in to you. You're connected to it.

Yeah. Yeah. If you are, and if you're not, then you have to reconnect, right? Well, a lot of people need to reconnect. Reconnect. We're in the reconnect mode right now. Yeah. You see that the pandemic definitely threw people into being more concerned about their health and about reconnecting with nature.

I mean, I think everybody ran to the coastlines and to the coast of Rika and Hawaii and Tennessee and any place there was nature. Ha ha. Why does everybody, why when there's a pandemic, everybody runs the nature well, because, you know, for a little bit,

well, and then tent and intuitively, right? You intuitively know that that's, you know, that's the place, that's the place to be. Yeah. Let's get into... I mean, layered superfoods. Yeah. Why did you...

I feel like you started that to help yourself. Yeah. Well, the original creamer, the very first one, the sweet and creamy, that first product that we came out of was from a recipe, was from a recipe that I had been making for myself and sharing with friends. And it was something to, it was like a, it was like a, I wanna say like a, you know, like a, energy, energy drink. It was like an energy drink for me. It was like, okay, in know, like a, energy, energy drink.

It was like an energy drink for me. It was like, okay, in the morning wake up, drink something that you can go and do, you know, five, six, whatever, eight hours of activity and not need anything else. And so that's where it started. It started out of, and it started, originally started with my,

first of all, my love for coffee, because I love coffee. So then I was like, oh, you know, I love coffee. So, let me see if I can, and I had learned years ago about ghee, the relationship with ghee, which is clarified butter, and caffeine, with fatigue and espresso, they used it in the Himalayas,

and then the bulletproof guy came out and had his coconut oil and his bulletproof coffee. So I was kinda like, okay, so I had had multiple exposures, but I got kinda my own recipe. I just started playing with stuff and putting stuff that I liked in it. Like, I love tumeric, so I put a lot of tumeric in it.

And tumeric is, you know, really good anti-inflammatory and really good for gut health. So like I think in India, they have very minimal gut digestional diseases of any kind and they attribute that to turmeric. So I, that first, that first drink, I'd share with buddies and they'd be like, we'd go out in the ocean and they'd be out there

and they'd be like, what's in this? Like, what is this? And I try to explain it. And one of my friends said, hey, let me try to make a powdered version. I'll just make a powdered version, see if we can't get a powdered version because he drank it and loved it. And then we, like, the third rendition through was the original or the sweet and creamy. That was the first product.

So you literally just came up with these concoctions in your home. Yeah, that's what you're talking about. And then a friend said, let me replicate this. Yeah. No kidding. So legitimately, just to tell yourself. So was the legitimate, it did legitimately started

with you just trying to improve your own health. Totally. Totally. Totally. And then I would get athletes that asked me, they'd be like, oh, how'd you get that company in this and that to give you that? I'm like, we started it from scratch. Like I had the recipe, made the thing.

First one, then we just started trying to sell it online, the people that were in my circle and all of a sudden, it was just like, we were just selling online. And they're like, oh, well, let's make another flavor. Oh, I like turmeric. Okay, let's make a turmeric one. Oh, I like, let's go to the, oh, yeah, the cow is great. And I like the cow.

And so, and then so we started building off of that, off of that original platform. And then looking for, because the philosophy, which has always been with Gabi Laos, but I have a philosophy that if you're doing something every day, like your toothbrush, I mean your toothpaste, your soap, like this is not a place to put trash on you and garbage. This you don't consume, like things you're doing on a daily basis, because they're a cumulative. So a little arsenic over a long time, there's a lot of arsenic, a arsenic over a long time, there's a lot of arsenic,

a little poison over a long time, there's a lot of poison, a little health over a long time is a lot of health. And so I looked at it like quality of the soap that you use on your skin, and so you're absorbing it, the toothpaste you're putting in your mouth, that you're drinking that,

the drink, the stuff, just the things you're doing on these daily basis, this is the area to start, right? Coffee, you're putting in your mouth, that you're drinking that, the drink, the stuff, just the things you're doing on these daily basis, this is the area to start, right? Coffee, you're doing, if you're drinking coffee, if you're drinking tea every day, you don't need to be just drinking some terrible tea, drink some like tea, like find a good tea that's high quality that you know where it's coming from. And so that's kind of the premise of it,

and I'd already been doing that stuff in my life naturally, that just was normal. So to do that in this genre was completely like, the premise of it, and I'd already been doing that stuff in my life naturally, that this was normal. So to do that in this genre was completely like, yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. I was, I mean, listen, I used to have beans flown in from places, because I was into beans, like the good quality, like I'm not gonna just drink

any garbage coffee, it's like, if I, if there all there was was to drink the coffee that's around, I would never, I would even drink coffee. I wouldn't drink. Yeah, no, would even drink coffee. I wouldn't drink. Yeah, no, there's no way. I wouldn't just drink that stuff as a battery acid. Like, pick green, you know, chemical fertilized and roasted terribly.

It's like, now wonder you got to put like a gallon of milk and 10 scoops of sugar just to survive. Like, I wouldn't even touch that stuff. So, so that's kind of the philosophy of the whole thing, right? The acumen. And then what are you doing on a daily basis? You know you're hydrating, right? You know you're sleeping. You know you know you know you know these are these categories that you know you know you know you need your greens. You know you know these are the things you might have a snack. Okay, here's a bar. Like these are things that we're doing consistently,

right? And so build off of those things. These other one off things that's less interesting, you know, hey, I'm gonna have such and such a meal. Yeah, you might do that once, twice a week or whatever. And in those areas, it's not as important as it is on these things that consist, because it's all about, it's just like training. If you just a little workout every single day

is a lot of workout, right? Never mind, just I train like an animal. Yeah, two days a week and break myself and I can't move the rest of the time. I was like, no, I'd rather just have that, you know, it's again, it's the discipline. And so it's based on that. The brand itself is based on that. And then the quality, you know, nature made it perfectly. Don't mess it up.

We still have to try to, you know, our challenge is always to find the best ingredients, make it affordable because we don't wanna make it exclusive because normally health is exclusive, nor health is only for the wealth. You gotta afford it, the stuff is, I mean, if I have a friend of mine grows some of the best turmeric in the world, right? In Hawaii, but it's so expensive,

it would be $90 bag of, two more creamers. It's like, yeah, you me and my three friends that would use it, maybe just not even you, maybe me. But, but, but, but, you know what I mean? So, in a way to do that, I think that's the challenge too, is to get it, and the people that need it the most are the ones that can barely afford it. So, that's also the piece of it too,

like that we wanna make it, because we feel like it's an opportunity to share kind of the values, right? In a way, you're able to touch people. And I run into a lot of people, you know, I run into, you know, old grandma's that, like, love it. I love that stuff so much. I not gave it to my, you know, or some, I'll meet some guy and I'll be like, oh yeah, I got this for my mom. She gave it to me. I'm like, what? And she's like, oh yeah, she's into it.

Like, so we see the traction. We see who it's affecting, which drives us more to hold the line and to try to make things, you know, to have a, I mean, we have guardrails on the thing. And, you know, Gabby and I, I always laugh because I'm functioned, she's taste. So we're, because I'm dealing with, hey,

I would drink mud every day. Like I eat raw eggs blended in the morning every single day. I got no problem eating things that taste terrible if they're good for me. I can just, I have no problem doing that. And that, but she's like, but people won't do it every day. And I go, I know that.

So we're gonna make it taste good so that we can get, you know, so we can get people consistent. And then they, in a way, it's almost like then they can once they start doing it on a regular basis, then they're more open to trying things that maybe are a little more elaborate, a little more sophisticated. And so as we go, we can offer things that maybe that they wouldn't be able to start with because we're trying to get them with, you know, you try to get people with where they are. You got to go, well, how do you, what do you drink? Well, I drink a double mocha latte with extra foam.

And you're like, okay, well, I'm going to have to figure out how to make that and make it that I'll out of good healthy things. I mean, it's going to be a little tricky, but I'm making as close as I can and still be good for you. Yeah. I mean, you guys have hit, I mean, let me reiterate, I think I said this at the beginning, but, you know, what's, I, the most impressive thing to me is that, is the, it's, it's the cleanest ingredients, you know, and, and, and that's what really drew my attention was, hey, we source, we try to source everything in the United States, which I think is important.

And the only time we go outside of the US is if it's a higher quality ingredient. Yeah, or we don't have it. Like coconut, like you just can't find coconut in America. It's just like we got to go to like, okay, where are we going to Philippines? Okay, Philippines are, you know, or trade-long or somewhere. I mean, you said it's like, where, who has coconuts, and who can make the, you know, for that particular ingredients. But for sure, I mean, my goal is to be able to implement growing

a lot of the stuff myself. Like, I already have some of the projects where I'm going to be start to try to implement growing ingredients because I'd like to become more vertically integrated because ultimately, I can control everything. Then I know exactly what's in the dirt. Then I know exactly what's in the plant. And then I know exactly what's in the people.

And that allows us to get higher quality stuff to people because then we don't have three people along the chain putting their take on it, which makes everything just go up, right? So that's where you want to go. It's just, that's a harder, longer process. And so we gotta survive till then, but that would be the, if we could grow a bunch of the ingredients ourselves, or even have relationships and be in partnership

with farmers, I mean, that's what you wanna, that's where you go. You go, that's where you, because then you know exactly what's happening. Then you got yourself some real, otherwise you're just kind of at the mercy of trusting that the so-called people are doing what they're supposed to and the people that are supposed to check

on the people doing what they're supposed to or doing what they're supposed to. And you know, I saw that. You know, all that stuff. How did you find out about functional mushrooms? That's what really, that was the first thing that really drew me to you guys was, I think I told you I'd done a cycle, yeah, I did.

We talked about it in here. I did a psychedelic. I just changed your life. Yeah, and so that I triggered me to look into functional mushrooms because I worry a lot about brain health and I'm a huge provoto mental health and with traumatic brain injuries, dementia, Alzheimer's, etc.

Well, I know Lyons main is like a dementia like a buffer from dementia as one example. Lines mean specifically just for dementia. Somebody gave me a chaga like a lot of years ago in Alaska. A chunk of some random guy just said, hey, here's a, here's some chaga. And so, and I had already, I've always been, I mean, listen, in Hawaii, you had people had, there was mushroom, there was hippies, it had mushrooms,

and in, you know, cow pastures, and there, but because of, because of how I grew up around all these different, we have this thing called pipiauia, which is this weird fungus that you collect in the trees and that we use it, we cook it with food, we make a dish with food in it. So I've already, I've always had kind of relationship

with fungi and understood that mushrooms. and understood that mushrooms. But Cortecepts specifically is a helps you increases your VO2 max. So Cortecepts improves your VO. Let me put it this way. Cortecepts has helped your body ability to absorb oxygen as one thing. So as a, and I think that was the beginning, part of the ability to absorb oxygen. As one thing. So, as a, as a, and I think that was the beginning,

part of the beginning, Chaga was the king. I got exposed, somebody gave me a giant Chaga, and I'm like, this thing's crazy. And then I, and then he gave me a paper that told me all the benefits. And they said that there was a,

there's a famous guy called the Iceman or something that was 13,000 years old or something in Europe that they found like some mummy. And they supposedly had a satchel on his waist that had a chunk of chaga inside the little pouch, like he had a pouch, like on this mummy or something that had a, so I had a couple weird little things happen. Like this guy had a chunk of chaga and you know some ice creature that they found that had it and then a guy gave me one and

And then gave me a paper list of like the I mean in the 50 things that it was good for like Salt, you know cured and grandma's this cancer that the thing that all you know just the list was a crazy list This is all from chaga chaga Yeah, so then so then that then cortiseps come along. Cortiseps are like, oh yeah, oxygen absorption, you know, helps in VO2 max. I'm like, well, that's you're on my, you know, so that brought kind of awareness to and I've been using another product I was telling you about called Sheila Jett for more than 20 or 30 years. So I've always been connected to plant medicine, plant,

and the values of all, like what plants can do, just because we had it in Hawaii, there's the Hawaiian medicine man that have all kinds of plants that they make stuff out of the cure all kinds that we have a fruit called Noni. It's a fruit that that it smells like vomit, but it cures like heartworm and cures diabetes. Guys, I have friends that were diabetic

that cured their diabetes. I mean, I just a bunch of different things. So I'm already naturally connected to there's plants that are medicine, they cure things. It's healthy, like all that thing. So when there starts to be information about mushrooms early on, I was like, well, yeah, that's, of course. And so, and these, I would say the, these format, like these format, these, these caught these creamers, these coffees, these teas, this, this fat stuff is an incredible way to put stuff into your,

into your system. Like, and so we have performance mushroom separate, so you can scoop as much as you want, but we also have it incorporated into it, but the fat in general and most of these products are really designed to help you absorb. So there's some crazy things that happen. So, and back to what we were talking about early, and I'll just, I'll make it light of it. But if you look at, think about salt and pepper, right? You think about salt and pepper, and you go, well, why do you put salt and pepper on food?

Taste, flavor. Well, you think, wouldn't you? But what does that mean? When it tastes better, what do you think that means? It means absorption. It's connected to absorption. Has nothing to do with taste. So in a way, you were putting things on.

Again, what did I say? We looked at the sunrise and the sunset, because it's beautiful. Now, because it's good for you the sunset because it's beautiful. No, because it's good for you. And then it's beautiful. We put salt and pepper on the food because it makes it taste better. No, because you absorb better, makes it taste good. What came first, but ultimately the absorption, right? So when you salivate, you eat something and it tastes really good, all the enzymes to digest it. There, that's all stimulated by the flavor which results in your ability to absorb it better.

Like, there's some things where you put, they put pepper. They like, if you take pepper with turmeric, you absorb it better, like they have turmeric shots and they put pepper in in it, pepper, because you have better absorption. Well, then wouldn't you have better absorption from anything you put pepper on? Absolutely, that's a reason to put pepper on it

because you actually absorb better. When you use olive oil and you use butter on vegetables, your brain wants the fat. You see you absorb more nutrients because the body absorbs the fat and the nutrients right along in the thing. So there's like this, none of this stuff we do. We don't do things for no reason.

Like flavor isn't, we made flavor become something and we abused it, right? We made things taste good, that weren't good for you because tasting good actually had a function and we were able to abuse that. Now this is, some of this is my theory, but some of this is the facts of what the thing actually does. But when you put spices in certain things on food that enhances flavor, that enhances

absorption. And I'll be real surprised if there's any science that says different because it's just an obvious thing. Like, of course, it does. Like, it tastes good, makes you celebrate, you create enzymes that make you absorb should better thing. It wouldn't, what, we wouldn't do it in nature. There wouldn't be, it's like, they used to think your tonsils didn't do anything. Now they realize they probably do something so they don't cut them out unless you need to.

Like, there's nothing for no reason. None of it's there for no reason. You don't make stuff taste good for, just because it tastes good. We don't just do things to make it, you know, maybe sex, but we don't do there for no reason. You don't make stuff taste good for just because it tastes good. We don't just do things to make it, you know, maybe sex, but we don't do things for no reason. But even that for a reason. But I'm just saying like, but I'm saying that that whole thing,

those things are connected to, you know, putting fat on thing, putting spices on food to enhance flavor. I believe is connected actually more to absorption first. And the flavor is just the byproduct of that. It's a little bit like why is the sunrise in the sunset beautiful? Well, no, it's actually important for us to look at it. And the byproduct is as beautiful, so maybe we'll look at it. And so the byproduct of putting spice on food is because you absorb more of it.

So that's why we put spice on the food because it tastes better. So it's tasting better. Oh, it's, oh yeah, it tastes better, which is actually making you absorb more of it. So that's why we put spice on the food, because it tastes better. So it's tasting better. Oh, it tastes better, which is actually making you absorb more of it. So that's the reason to do it. Well, because just to do it for no reason, this would be stupid. Like, why would you just make it taste better?

Like in other than, okay, your pleasure of tasting good, but that's something that we're doing now. Not we didn't do that for the last 100,000 years. Wow. That's something I've never, I've just never thought about or heard that before. Exactly. That's, but that's just putting pieces together. When you look, you just start to put like, hey, you get put pepper on it.

Like, when you put, that's why when you put fat, like when you use coconut, like certain MCT oils, these fats, these fats help you pull nutrients. You absorb nutrients better with the fats. Like that's this part of, so whatever you're putting in there, like if you're putting the tumor creamer or the cacao or whatever you're putting, you're absorbing that better. You'd get better absorption. You'd mentioned earlier as well.

I mean, to probably get, that probably gonna, if somebody's gonna, sometimes it's gonna come, well, it's not true, and it's not true, but you know, at the end of the day, somebody's gonna, sometimes it's gonna come, well, it's not true, and it's not true, but you know, at the end of the day, it's like, hey, just think about the math of it. Yeah. Just think about the, the think about it.

I like to see it. Yeah. I mean, you, you had it, you, you brought up another interesting point earlier about your brain being made of fat. Yeah. And that's why it craves fat. Do you wanna elaborate on that a little bit or?

Well, first of all, your, your, well, the brain craves, that's why it craves fat. Do you want to elaborate on that a little bit or? Well, first of all, your, your, well, the brain craves fat's made, it's, it's 96% dry cholesterol. Your brain is like your, your, your, and the, uh, and so it's, it eats fat. Like your muscles are made of protein, they eat protein, they want protein, your brain's made of fat, it wants fat.

Like that's what it's looking for. So when people smell fat, like you smell bacon or you smell something that's fat cooking on a grill somewhere or you get that, you just go, what is that, right? What you crave, you crave that. I mean, you crave part of the reason why you crave ice cream is because there's fat in it. And I mean, all these things are fat-based, right?

A lot of our fat thing is feeding our brain. And so, and I don't know, I just think anything that would reduce cholesterol in your system. I mean, I think there's a big argument about high cholesterol, low cholesterol, you have multiple kinds of cholesterol. There's some really good data on that that none of it's having a effect on your, on your overall heart wellness. I think that that's a debate that these guys are having, that they're saying, people are saying, oh yeah, it's not connected, that high cholesterol is not connected to any kind of hard issues. I think it's also a good fear place because whenever you talk about your heart, you talk about fear, so you get people scared, and then you get, when you can get them scared,

you can manipulate them. So I think there's some of that out there as well. But when you're dealing with your brain and your cholesterol, I mean, I think your brain needs cholesterol. So if you're taking something that's taking your cholesterol down, you might be taking your brain down. Like, I don't have the science.

I'll let the scientists do the science work, they can tell me after and then I can just regurgitate it, but it just in my elementary school math that I went to school, that makes sense to me. I go, if you're lowering your cholesterol and your brain's made of cholesterol, it seems like you'd be lowering your brain.

Like it just doesn't, I don't know where that doesn't make sense. But again, like I't, I don't know where that doesn't make sense. But again, like I said, I'm not a scientist. And I'm not, it's just what makes sense to me being a practical thinker. Like when I look at things practically, I'm like, I think- When you simplify it.

Yeah. When you cut out all the BS. Yeah. Just go straight, simple. Like I'm not, don't complicate it. Don't be devising, just go let me see. Reduction, and this is made out of this, and I'm reducing this't complicated. Don't sublime. Let me see reduction in that this is made out of this and I'm reducing this well and that's this so it's like it's not it doesn't seem to be it's you know too can I think we make

it confusing so we can disguise imperfection. It's like I said before about the frame when it's perfectly square there's nothing to do to it but when it's a little off then you got to glue a bunch of stuff on it. What's your favorite product? I mean, I love the two. I mean, I love Instafuel, but I love the instant latte. Instafuel latte is a crazy good, but the tumor creamer, I use the creamers the most. The greens has been great, but the creamers are my, and I use them for, I can use, I can make a golden milk, which is just coconut powder and tumour creamer together, and that makes it, but the creamers, I think the creamers for me are the, I mean, the coffee, our beans are beyond good.

The instant for traveling, I have a travel kit that I travel with that I'm able to use the instant stuff. And so, but the coffee, the coffee creamers are, that's hard for me to, and then, you know, that instant stuff is good. The matcha, the chai, the instant coffee, just add hot water. I mean, for me, I just, I don't leave home without that, but those unsweetened creamer, the tumor creamer, and then the regular sweet and creamy latte, I mean, that's, you know, and then Gabby loves the mocha,

you know? Yeah, yeah. Well, my favorite's the performance mushrooms. I love that stuff. Well, that's always going on. Yeah, but well, anything new coming? What's next for you? Well, the ocean, you know, I have my season starts right now

So we're I go back and continue to keep my eye on the horizon I have you know, we're just coming into the season. So we're probably gonna do something I have a couple projects around foiling that I'm trying to do some stuff I was talking about maybe open ocean stuff like try to get ourselves out into the big seas and do it and not get lost and not get recovered and be able to pull that off. And then just survive parenting. That's my greatest challenge ever. So that's an ongoing project with these amazing girls that are women, girls, women.

Yeah, that's the, you know, and then just try to keep the air going in out of the hole. That's right. Well, Eric, I just want to say it was a real honor to interview you. And like I said, I just want to, I want to thank you for letting me be a part of your journey with layered superfoods. I'm, I love it. And I'm just, I'm happy to be here. And then, and to end this, I just want to, I just want to reiterate how much wisdom you just imparted on us. I mean, we talked about breaking generational curses, slash trauma. We've talked about coming out of broken homes.

We've talked about fatherhood. We've talked about being a good husband. We've talked about overcoming alcoholism. We've talked about biohacking. I mean, there is a ton of important wisdom and information within this piece of content that we just made in our conversation. So thank you. Well, I thank you for the opportunity and I'm glad that I could be of service and you're a gentleman and I appreciate your work and I'm honored for all your work. So, for the nation, for the people and the ongoing work that you're doing, it's a pleasure

and I'm glad that we were brought together by the divine because that's the only way it happens. So, we're connected now and whether you like it or not, you're gonna have to ride a wave or two. It's happening, it's gonna happen. I'd be happy to do it. I'm looking forward to it. And yeah, I will, let me meet my daughter here soon

and in beginning and next year. I'll be seeing you on your turf. Oh yeah, it's coming. Perfect. I'm looking forward to it. Me too. Thank you. Thank you. Aloha. Yeah, bless.

You're a gentleman. Aloha. you