Shawn Ryan Show - #92 Christian Craighead - SAS Operator

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

Christian Craighead is a former member of the United Kingdom's elite 22 Special Air Service unit. Craighead is credited with saving over 700 lives of innocent civilians when he thwarted a terrorist attack at the DusitD2 Hotel complex in Nairobi, Kenya in 2019. He was awarded the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross for his actions. 21 people lost their lives in the attack, both American and British civilians among them. This episode covers Christian Craighead's entire life story. "Obi Wan Nairobi" joined the Parachute Regiment as a teenager and was selected for the Pathfinder Platoon. He served on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Shawn & Christian discuss the blowback from the British Government and the outstanding "gag order" by the Ministry of Defence. Shawn & Christian also dive into faith, purpose, and break down the SAS motto "Who Dares Wins." Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://lairdsuperfood.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://babbel.com/srs https://shopify.com/shawn https://preparewithshawn.com https://mindbloom.com/srs - USE CODE "SRS" https://ShawnLikesGold.com or call 855-936-GOLD #goldcopartner Christian Craighead Links: Book - https://a.co/d/6T3LDDG | store.bookbaby.com/book/the-wrong-wolf IG - https://www.instagram.com/christian_craighead X - https://twitter.com/one_man_in Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bet on the NFL with Bandual, official sports put partner of the NFL. Download the app today to see why we're North America's number one sports book. 19-plus and physically located in Ontario. Gampling problem call 18665312-600 of visit connectsontario.ca 4 years ago today, January 15th, there was a massacre at a luxury hotel in the capital of Kenya in Nairobi. Al Shabab took responsibility for the attack later on, killed 19 innocent civilians, the fight went on for 19 hours into the 16th of January.

There was a rogue SAS operator who went in to save countless civilians and he is on the podcast today. This is one that has been a long time coming and he's here. Ladies and gentlemen, if you get anything out of these shows, please head over to Apple and Spotify. Leave us a review, like, comment, and subscribe to the YouTube channel. If you're watching over there and don't forget, there are tons, literally hundreds and hundreds of reels that you can download for free. Make them into what you want,

put them all over your social media, make money, monetize it. We don't care. All we ask is that you tag the Sean Ryan show. So everybody knows where it came from. And in the meantime, please welcome some call this man, Obi-Wan Nairobi, I call him Christian Craighead. Please welcome him to the Sean Ryan show.

God bless, love you all, see you soon. [♪ Music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, Saturday, that guy canceled your finally in-house, and I am stoked for this interview, man. So thank you for coming. I think it's just, we'll just put this in now. The funny story is when we came to, I came to Nashville for the SEI, met up with you for coffee, and then Sean Ryan and Chris Craighead

were just two dudes walking down the street for about two hours just trying to come. And some of my friends was like, that's like a really odd thought. And I never thought much about it at the time, but it kind of, so that happened. Yeah. Yeah. I think we got, I think we got made a couple of times out there. Well, you did. I didn't. Well, I took the photographs though. That was a good thing. Right on. Well, hey, let me give you a quick introduction here. So Christian Craighead, UK Army Special Forces

28-year military career, most of which correct me if I'm wrong is in the British SAS Retire Warn Officer's second class special air service parachute regiment in the British Army Eventually SAS awarded conspicuous gallantry cross for actions in Nairobi, Kenya. You're a member of the order of the British Empire, the MBE, you're the author of the wrong wolf, the author of what's the book that's in? One man in. One man in, which is tied up in court right now. one man in, which is tied up in court right now, known as Obi-Wan Nairobi, and you are a Armani jeans model.

So, which we'll get into later. You're wearing Armani jeans that day, and a whole bunch of other stuff that got real popular after that incident. But, you know, we got a lot of stuff to cover, Christian. I wanna cover your childhood, we get into a little bit of the incident, you know, what happened that day, if we can. And then we got a whole slew of stuff

after that incident, what you're doing today. But everybody starts out with a gift on the show. Any guesses? Maybe gummy bears? It's definitely a possibility. Oh, right. Thank you. I mean...

Yeah, the famous gummy bears are... Famous gummy bears. That's illegal. Yeah. Even in the UK. Well, as you said, everyone starts off with the gift that I've got one for you. Oh, really?

I know we're gonna get onto the subject of faith later on, but God forbid that you have to put your body on or on again to defend yourself and your family or your ideals. But should you ever do that, I'd like to give you this arm upgrade. Oh man. Thank you. Thank you. It's a Bible. Thank you, man. That's a Bible with the, I designed the image on the front, which is... You design this? Well, I had the idea and then someone else

actually put it together, a good friend of mine, Cole. And it's the send me in the, in the, in the... Thank you, man. That is awesome. I love this. I'll probably frame it and put it in the studio. Okay. But then it could be like break glass in case of exactly. Break glass in case of war. Well, since we're on the faith subject, I

actually got you a little something to. So here you go. Thank you so much. You're welcome. So do you know who Don Rosalus? Yes, I do. So that we had spoken about the Jim Cavizal episode last night, which is no more. But I gave Jim the exact same rosary and we had a lot of conversations before the interview and I just had a feeling that man was gonna need a lot of protection.

And so Dom, Dom's a former, still team six guy, gave me that rosary. I gave it to Jim Kovisel, then he sent me another one. And I carry that everywhere to protect myself. And I know we're gonna get into some fascinating stories about some encounters that you've had, especially before some very important missions. And I just wanted to give that to you.

Thank you so much. It means a lot to me. And Dom is just an awesome human being. And I thought you should have it because you're coming out and you have a lot of cards stacked against you back in the UK right now. And maybe that'll give you some protection.

Thank you. You're welcome, you're welcome. But thank you for this. God bless brother. But childhood, you ready to dig in? Yeah, are you nervous? A little bit, but we'll see. What are you nervous about?

Not being exciting enough, not being, and you know, I'm trying to, I'll tell my story. And I think, I think just to start with, is it interesting, maybe, is it cliched sometimes? But you could call childhood, and this is for everyone is this is when your training starts because whatever you do, whether it be an international event, whether it be your sportsman, a soldier, a manager or you you're in training them the moment you are born, that's when your training starts and you're being prepared for something. And some, some things are bigger than others, but you're always in training. So you could start, you could say it's my childhood. It's one way of framing it. The other way of saying it, it's, it's the start of my training. I will say this when it comes to the nervousness, everybody that comes here is nervous.

Everybody thinks, oh, it's not going to be exciting. Don't worry about that, Ben. It's going to be gold, I promise. And I know you're kind of hanged up, we're tied up with some of your career. And I would like to offer you, when you're not tied up anymore, a slot here to give a full scope and depth on everything. Yeah. So.

And I think a lot, some people may be aware of this. I don't really talk about my career in the special air service. And that's just my policy right now. There's some things I could talk about, but I just choose not to. And like other things, policies change, people change, and viewpoints change. So in the future, I may talk about some stuff good, but I don't talk about right

now. It's all good, all in due time. And there's plenty other to talk about. stuff good that I don't talk about right now. It's all good all and do time And there's plenty other to talk about so let's start with childhood. Mm-hmm. Where'd you grow up? So I grew up in North East England so But five I was drive north of London and it was yeah, I didn't really like my childhood. When I was, the town where I grew up is a beautiful town. I grew up in a council, the council house, council house is like stay owned property. So it's like a poorer area of town.

And I grew up to it, single mother, I never met my father until later on in life. So I grew up with her for the first seven years. My mother, my aunt and my grandma. My grandmother is the person I am today. She takes full responsibility of the man I became is all because of her. Wow. And she raised me. And I had strange when I was talking to someone else about childhood, what you think is normal, sometimes a lot of time is normal. There's probably a lot of time is a normal. There's probably a lot of people out there who maybe get abused and don't really know they're getting abused. So it's only maybe when you wake up to it later on in life. And then you see and you think, yeah, that wasn't cool. But did you have any brothers and sisters?

No. So I grew up as an only child but My natural father is probably one of the most fertile man of the 1970s Sophie from North East England and you don't know who your dad is were probably related but now but I've got lots of like half brothers and sisters What is it about your childhood that you didn't like? I think it was...

You brought up abuse. Yeah, I think it was this. And it wasn't... What I say is plenty of love in my life. It wasn't a abuse from family or anything like that. But it was just being exposed to violence at a really young age. And that set sort of values in me,

which was kind of violence. So there's some things I don't want to share in the light of day. And so I think that the worst one, the worst experience I had was when I was eight years old and I just started it in new school and there was about a mile and a half walk back near Woodland and we'll talk about the Woodland layer which is a little more happier now. And I was walking home and nice warm September day and eight years old, and I was walking and these two guys were there, two older boys who had just been released from young offenders, from Juvie, and the one

was, if it were roughly about six years older than me, and then the other one was about the same age as him, so they would have been like 5th, 14, 15 years old. And I was always quite small and thin, and they were like, hey, what you're doing? And I'm like, nothing. And then one of them just hit me around the head with a branch, hit me with the ground, and then they went on to sort of torture me for about two hours.

Torture. Yeah, so kind of just beating me up. Like one of them would be sitting on my chest and like one of them like took some dog shit and smear on my face and like like cigarettes on me and stuff and and give me a kicking. And then and then I think the worst thing what the date is like I had a pack lunch box

and I didn't seem to do but the full put loads of dog shit inside my pack lunch box and then sealed it back up. So I didn't say that until later on when I was at home and that was a thing that was I thought was quite that got to me. And then and I and I ran home eventually and my stepdad time went out and sort of had a token look for them and my mother did as well. I was obviously just stressing, they were just stressing. And I think that was my first, even though I'd been be up and set on fire and stuff like that before. What are you saying? Set on fire?

Well, not set on fire. So, I don't figure a speech. No, not literally set on fire, but it's how I escaped. I'll tell you about that bit in a moment, but that to me was like pure evil that I witnessed, I thought. But here's the interesting thing, even at a young age I was thankful. You know what I was thankful for? I was thankful if that was me.

Because I can take that, that was me. And I'm certain, and I'm one of the biggest reasons I'm God for, if it wasn't me that day, they had the taste of blood in their mouth, it would have been someone else. And if I'd been an eight-year-old girl, they would have read me. I know that, I could say that. And so that was the part for me, was like, I'm glad it was me, because I can deal with that. And, um, yeah. Where, did you know these guys? I knew of one of them, and then I actually met one of them later on in life, and I turned the tables a little bit, and some people say it's not good what I did,

but I give them a kick in the back for his life. He didn't know who I was. How long ago? What's the time for him here? That would have been probably about 13, 14 years later. No, sure. I recognize that. Fewest comeback. Riding at BMX with 21 years old, tracksuit bottoms tucked into ease into ease socks, like a night walk, run on my eyes, just straight away locked on like a missile. I know who that is.

First time I see them since I know who that is. And, uh, yeah, and I, as you drove past, as you drove past, I grabbed them by the neck. And then, and then, um, as you drove past, as you were passing, dropped them by the neck. And then, and then, it's you'd have some tough justice. So good for you. And then how did that feel? Did it feel good afterwards?

Or did you regret it? Oh, I didn't regret it. No. I mean, it's maybe not a good message to put out the people, but sometimes you gotta, sometimes you gotta do it. Sometimes you gotta put on the arm and...

Did they know who you were? No. Did you let them know who you were? No. What did you say? Nothing. Nothing. What did they say?

Like, the normal stuff, what someone's begging for, the life says. So, what is the normal stuff? Please stop whatever I've done. Stop and... And just so everyone's all, there was no mistake and identity it was him But I'm running on let's move on. Yeah, but the fire thing a Few years before that when I was about four or five years I used to try and hang around with the older kids in the in my estate and

Sometimes I'd be like a pain in the pain and an act to them. So they, again, I don't think it's evil, it's just, you know, sometimes, sometimes kids can be brutal. So these were much older than me. These were been teenagers as well and I was about four or five years old. And there's two incidents. One was when I was walked into the woods and the woods was, I lived next to a set of woods and it was just a small, like, a small burn, but it was known as my woods because I knew it from the early age I used to go there by myself and up until just before the army I'd knelt like the back of my hands and I'd still walk through it now when I go to my hometown and, you hometown and think of these things.

And the guys were playing with an air rifle. And I said, oh, what are you doing? And one of them turned and with a big smirk, shot me in the leg, with the, and I was about four years old in the thigh, and I was screaming howling, thinking, why did you do that? The other one who we see always seemed to be nicer

than the others took the air rifle off me and I thought, oh, good, he's going to step in and then he shot me and hit me and he took it and then laughed and shot me in the other leg. I think then they realized what they'd done and then they tried to smooth it over and I've still got two scars on my leg. When my legs get suntan, which isn't often, you can see the two white marks here and here. Oh, good. On my legs. So there's things like that.

But then the, so another story and this came out when I was in on operations. The whole load of the guys were talking about things that made them scared, and they said, I'd hate to be put in a bag and I said, I've been tied in a bag before. And they went, what? And I said, yeah, when I was younger,

they were playing Batman and Robin. And I turned up and said, what's going on? They're playing Batman and Robin and you're gonna be one of the bad guys. So they had a potato sack and they stuffed me in this potato sack and tied a knot in the top and then they started kicking the potato sack around

and beating me. And the guys are looking at me going, what? And then when, how did you get out? I said, oh, when they sat on fire, I managed to escape. So that was my fire story. Holy shit. So you were bullied quite a bit as a kid. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. And this is the thing, isn't it? Like, honestly, I was just about to say that. Was I bullied? Because in mind, you know, when you normalise chaos,

you normalise violence. And so they're the most, they're not the most graphic things that ever happened to me, but as I said to someone very close to me, I said, that's those other things that are the worst day stay in here, and I don't think there's a need to see that I like to have a day. But why are you pretty closed up?

You keep a lot of stuff internalized, it sounds like. Why do you do that? I think it's because I've been betrayed all my life and and who is the most important person that's betrayed you? I mean we know your government. Yeah, it's pretty much I mean that was the answer is going to say but I think it's just people But I think it's just people, different parents, women, I mean, a bit of women, parents, I mean, it's all, I mean, everyone's got their own heartache, if you like.

And then sometimes, one of the things about the show Christian is sharing experiences because people learn from that. And it helps them get through the trauma. And so for somebody like you to be sitting here, who's experienced that kind of stuff, and overcome it, when you share those experiences, that sends a wave into the world. And people learn from men like you who've overcome that because they look up to you. And so when you share that and you talk about how you overcame it, you know, it, it, it's, it's like a wave of good that

gets tossed into the world and people ride that. And I think so from, from a betrayal point of view, I mean, everyone's, no one's totally innocent. Like I can say, like, oh, a girl may have dumped me or broke my heart, but you know, I probably had something to do with it, and I'm not perfect. And then, but it's, that's the thing is, is being alone. It's that feeling of alone. So like when you're just an only child, but then there's that thing when you find yourself on your own, I think from an early age

you was a defense mechanism from me to then go, okay, I can do this, I'm strong. I and I'll move on and do things. And then every now and again, I sometimes let someone in. And then when I let them in, sometimes they might not see what they like, or am I sure them too much?

And it's this thing about being Christian Craighead, this is my real self. And then they might not like what they see, and then move on, and then I think I should never, I should have just lived like a lie. I should have pretended to be someone who I'm not, and that way everyone's happy.

And every now and again, if you show them the real me, the mic go, yeah, I didn't like that. I liked the normal person, because, like in 2019, when I launched a one-man hostage rescue mission, if you like. Again, I don't want to go into the details of the thing. Life had prepared me for that moment. And it's a thought I have, and it's sometimes eaten me up a lot,

is for life to prepare me for that day, I had to be different. And merely, who was in the author of Tarris Tattagil, he was in the duet of D2 Hotel. So his been said to him, like Chris wasn't the right man at the right place that day. He was the man who had to be there that day because everything in life prepared me for that moment. The mindset, the skill set, everything was, it was odd, everything lined up for that.

But then this, the thought of, in order to be that person for that day, maybe I'm like a tool, like a specialist tool in order to be that person for that day. Maybe I'm like a tool, like a specialist tool, that it's really good for this job and you might use it once. And after that, it's useless. And sometimes I think, can I fit in with normal society?

And I'm not a crackpot, as you know, you've met me personally, I've met your family. It's, but I just think, am I suitable for normal life? Do you, it sounds like you put a lot of, maybe validity, I don't know if that's the correct word, but you really put, really put a lot of importance on what other people think. Sometimes, yeah.

I mean, why do you do that? I don't know. It's you. It's you. It's a shit if they don't like you. Yeah. Honestly. But this thing, it's trying to live my life and fit in.

And then sometimes I'm like, yeah, who do you wanna fit in with? Well, I don't know, I just like get on in life. And it's like, I'm chasing, it's this thing like everything costs something. And I didn't work up and become, and became Chris Craycad. It was a long, hard slog to January 2019.

And it cost me everything. It cost me family, it cost me relationships, it cost me my soul in some cases. And so it's just, it's coming in there and that's one of the things that we've been getting ahead of ourselves, but about you're trying to find purpose in life and right now I've got some things coming in, but I still in my mind thing,

I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. So part of me sometimes think, am I round complete? Have I done what I'm supposed to be put on this one for? And now I'm just waiting to die. Would you mind if I make a suggestion? No. Do you think you're gonna find what your purpose is

by trying to cater to the crowd and fill in? I mean, yeah, and that's what I realized is that's what I'm going to was going out is sometimes I'll open it. I'm doing it and then go know what I'm doing and then withdraw back in with drawing. And then so it's it's just trying to feel like we do trying to work, see what works, what doesn't work. But then but going back to childhood. Yeah. And but so they set the sack on fire and I escaped. One of the good friends of mine said, that's why Chris is how he is, so how am I?

Well, those people might be horrified, or people might say, no big deal, what happened there is a kid, but that did something to me. Those types of incidents did something to me. And what they did was from a very early age of about, well, starting from about four years old and chipping away all the way up until teenager is they made me not tolerate bullies to stand up for people who can't stand up for themselves and do the right thing when you can and that's why I think it's part

of the training. Although it's horrific and I'd hate to happen it to... if I... if that happened to someone I love and I'd go and hunt them people down. But it was required, I think. And then that put me into this childhood flex of like acting, like for me, I was quite thin, small. So if I saw anyone as a threat, or if I saw, I'd resort to violence straight away. I'd be like, yeah, someone like did something. I knew it was potential because I was small,

so I'd just punch them in the face. Was it a temper or was it calculated? It was combination. I think more calculated than it was temper. And it's the thing, because I know that if I... Bullies will be bullies. So I would read the room and if, I knew that, I knew that they'd, like, look at me,

he's as small as I'm gonna do something to him. So I just be like, yeah, no, you're not. And I, and I, and, and, and, and, and, and, and obviously life in the 1980s was different. People had fist-fighting school all the time. They were kind of, it's not like, it's, now would be a huge thing. I'm not condoning it. Now I'm not saying to any young people watching this,

go out and fight violence with violence because it's a different time now. The underlying message that you're sending is timeless. It's don't get pushed around. Yeah. Stand up for yourself. Stand up for others. Yeah, and that's what those acts of violence

and abuse through my life, and there's lots. That's what they ended up, and luckily, I didn't fall into the wrong side of the law with that violence and things come, I started coming down, and one of the things I always say saved my life, if you like was the Army cadets. So the Army cadets in Newcastle, like a youth organization where at the age of 13 you join and you get issued a uniform and you do two parade nights a week and you

do get inspected and you do lessons on field craft, marksmanship, that kind of thing. So youth organization. And I all I wanted to do was join the Army, or be a warrior, from the Israel Ungris I can remember, I wanted to be a soldier. And so I joined, I liked about my age and joined when I was 12. And then, and then just started doing that. And that saved my life because at the same time, and I think it's hard to disagree with this.

12, 13 years, 13 years old, is a time when you were a junction in your life. Like you see, when a lot of people go, do you know, good kids, full creative crime and drugs and things like that, it's usually around about the top, the start point is usually about 13 years old. That's the time when you, there might be missing classes at school and going around

the smoking in the back of the school and doing whatever happens now. It's usually about that age when you start falling off falling off falling going off you off the wrong track. falling off falling off falling going off you off the wrong track and and that certainly happened in my set of friends then I was the only one who joined the army cadets and those friends people always friend was I believe all of them have been in Cyprus and now some of them may have died of overdoses I'm sure two of them have died of overdoses since then and because it's, again, it's going to sound like a grown-up, but just the act of smoking a cigarette can lead to her own addiction. It's the gateway into this bad thing.

I'm not saying everyone did it, but as anyone fell completely off the tracks, but that's at that point. So, it's a bit of waffle there to say that a 13 years old had joined the Army Collector, and that saved my life, gave me purpose two nights of the week. They're doing the lessons and every now and again, you go away for a weekend and the summer you do, like an annual come of two weeks away. And that really set me up for joining the Army,

but also I was going to join the Army anyway. But it was just, like I say, it's I think it saved my life, give me purpose. And especially at a 13-year-old, my grandmother, my grandmother, she died. And that's when I felt truly alone. So yes, my mother may say she loved me, except that in other people. But I was really, it was only my grandmother who really knew

me, who really believed in me and really saw me for who I was. She knew I wasn't, she knew I was different and she, and she, like, without my grandmother I don't know what would have to me, but she put in these core values and, so a combination of obviously the bad stuff, but she made me respectful to people, to like a school, a school. I might be like again, people might say, well, he's a bit of a thug, he's like being people up

or whatever, like say, to different time, but I was always super, super respectful to school teachers. It was always really polite to the school teachers and things like that. And that was just because my grandma, my grandma would say, like, there'd be a woman walking down the street and I can hold a woman and she'd go go across

and help her with the bags. Give you a seat up to people on the bus or when we're traveling. Give you a seat up to that lady. Okay. Why do you think your grandma was able to say that you're different? I don't know.

I think it was just that connection. You were closer to her than your mother? Oh, yeah, I was closer to her than to anyone. Why is that? What did your mother do for a living? She worked at a night shift in different, like in the care industry, but yeah. Stepdad.

Fuck you, worker. Factor worker. Do you think maybe they were just busy with their occupations? No, they're just, again, I don't want to throw dirt around too much because people would be like, oh, I wasn't that bad or was whatever. The bottom line is, I don't matter what people think. I'm thankful, I'm thankful for those two people, especially. Not because of, because what they did was, it's like they're saying there is no enemies or friends, just teachers.

And when I was looking, even from as young as eight, nine years old, I was looking at those two and say, I'm never gonna be able to use two. Was your grandma always around? Did you live with her? So, because my mother worked night shift three nights a week, so every three nights of the week. With my grandma, every single day I went around to her house

and so every single day, with the exception of one day. So, in 1989, I went away, unlike a... with the school, had like a weekend away. Also, it was a week away and like doing climbing and outdoor activities and things. And I had a camouflage jacket that and had in my grandmother's doing this. She said they cut the tops off two pairs of socks

and then my grandmother sold them onto the cuffs, so it looked like, I mean, it's the thing that people used to do. But I lost my temper when she was doing that on this Sunday night and then screaming in shower and she was screaming in a shower and me. But it all came together at the end and I said, sorry and she'd always say,

oh, you test the patients of a nun. And then the next day I went. I went away that way and usually I came back, I got back on the, I think it was the Sunday or was the Sunday. And for the first time ever, I didn't go to a house on the way home from school Because it's kind of on the way and I just because I think it was because it was carrying gear and stuff

So I went straight home, but as soon as I got home I I Picked up the telephone on the what and give her a call to hey grandma Yeah, it was good. We can we're talking and and that's an I'm not coming around tonight And then she's going to go babysit for my other, some other members of family. I said, I'll see you tomorrow. And she goes, yeah, see you tomorrow. And she goes, I love you, I love you too. Like, every day, I always called it.

Remember, this is before mobile phones. And then, and then she went to my auntie's house. And then, then my, that got, stepped that got called. He looked and didn't say anything and then he said, look, you know, you've got almost had a heart attack. It's just in hospital. So, yeah, so I just ran off the door and ran into my home town. I don't know what I was doing.

I didn't know where I was running. I was just running. It's like, you know, like a irrational thing that you do. You go out running, like,'s random, it's dark, it was February evening. And obviously now he can't do anything, he can't find me. So I'm just there and I go to where there's a church in town. I didn't go to the church but it's very old and there's like a gateway sort of thing into the church and there's got a cross on the top.

And I was just sat on a bench opposite here and I was looking at the cross. And I was pleading with God, please don't take it away from me. I'm not sorry. Phew. Like, because I got this is not supposed to happen. She's my only supporter.

She's my, she's my link. And more importantly, she's the only person who believes in me. And so I'm looking, pleading with God, and then, so then I run home. Then I, like, something makes me run home and it goes right, we're getting an attack cab, we're going to the hospital, which was about 10, eight miles away. So we're going home and get to the hospital and then I never saw again because as I walked in she died. So the takeaway point for that is I mean it's always, um, so it's all the one time I didn't go to see it. And and I always

say I've said it to so many people all the way through my life is if you love someone, or care for someone dearly, if you have an argument, whether be you, whether you're a brother, wife, girlfriend, friend, if you ever have an argument, don't leave on back terms, always resolve it, because you never want, because it's always supposed to be like, the last time you'll ever see them.

That's a great point. You know, me and my wife have a rule. We never go to bed angry. We always work it out before we go to bed for that reason. Yeah, so she, yeah, my grandma, she, like she made me the man I am. And I still think about her every day. That's amazing.

I'm sorry to hear that she's not with us anymore. Christian, I want to dive into your purpose. So we keep, we keep, forgive me, but I'm going to put you on the spot. We keep going back to what other people are going to think. And so my question for you is, do you think you're going to find your purpose by catering to do you think you're going to find your purpose by catering to what you think people that you don't even know want from you? Yeah, I mean, that's the truck I'm falling into, so I don't.

But it's, I mean, to, to, to, to, and this is, we're a man with a, I mean, the amount of courage that you can muster up in situations is like nothing people have ever seen. I mean, you entered a hotel where people were being slaughtered by Al Shabab against your country's orders. You did that. Nobody does that. And now let's fast forward. That happened in 2019. Let's fast forward to four years.

We're worried about what other people think. Does that add up to you? It's probably what I think it is doing a self-diagnosis is it's a side effect of being alone, of like, is it called a banemond syndrome? You know, my, you know, my grandma died, but she, in essence, she left me. of like, is it called a bananmen's syndrome? You know, my grandma died, but she, in essence, she left me. And so it's, it's like this thing, but I don't wanna be alone.

Like I'm trying to, but like I say, it's testing it, just, no, it's not gonna give me my purpose, but I kind of sometimes I don't wanna be alone, and then I realize I am alone, and we're all alone, but that's the problem. It's part adjustment of coming out of the military after 28 years, so I'm part of this, like, just trying to, trying to work it out. I mean, that's part of being alone now. I mean, that's part of, I mean, you're a leader. I mean, you're a leader. You're a leader of men and leaders are lonely. They are.

But because you have to make the tough cause, you have to lead. So yeah, and so it's all just been about finding my feet really. And I'm still looking. I'm still looking to try and find this purpose and see what it is. What, you know, these things I want to do and these things I'm doing, but there's still nothing that is like filling my soul. Like as a young person, I want it to be a soldier. And then when I was in the army, I wanted to get into the unit.

And when I was in the unit, I wanted to do X, Y and Z. And then there's this big void now of like, well, what do I want to do? And I'm still, and again, it's not a negative. It's like, I'm sure it's going to come to me. And I think it's going to come to me when I'm not even looking for it. That's how it always works. Well, I think it's going to come from the heart.

And then, and, when you push everybody else's opinions and all their bullshit that they think that you should be doing to the side, I think that's the opportunity where it's going to come to you. Would you agree with that? Yeah, possibly. I mean, it's definitely a thing. What's the argument?

Well, yeah. What is it? What's the argument? What is it? What's the argument? Again, I'm just trying to do what the right thing is. And then see what the rather than based on the opinion of me, again, it's trying to, I'm not trying to cater to everyone. I mean, maybe that's a bit out of contact, like being taken out of contact a bit, but I'm not.

But I'm just trying to find my way. But the problem is, is I'm not, there is not, it's just the fact, I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what my purpose is yet. I'm still trying to pin it down. And I'm, yeah. I think you know your purpose. You've got great messaging.

I mean, last night at dinner with me and my wife, you rattled off a few purposes. I mean, one of them is that book right there, you know, the wrong wolf standing up for what you believe in, standing up for people that can't stand up for themselves. I mean, that's, it seems to be the lifelong, it's following you everywhere you go.

Oh, watch this space and see how it develops right on. Well, let's move on. So what kind of stuff were you into as a kid? What did you enjoy doing? I enjoyed anything to do. I liked anything about the military guns, aircraft especially. Like I had this thing about military aircraft

that could identify all sorts of stone and nuclear weapons like red up and nuclear, I was fascinated with nuclear technology and weapons. Where did that inspiration come from? I have no idea. Movies. Yeah, there was something like the one, there's two movies, sorry, well, there's a whole group of movies that inspired me, but one of the K1's, The Wild Gees,

I remember watching The Wild Gees, have you seen it? I haven't. You need to watch it, and I said this, I've said it in a previous interview, if you haven't watched The Wild Gees, it's an, it hasn't aged very well, but it's got like Richard Burton, Roger Moore, Richard Harris, they're the Ming stars on it. It was, I think it's 1977, but it's about most now, it's free fall into Africa to pursue a tribal leader. Really? Yeah, so it's... And I saw that and went,

that it filled my heart. And it's... So that was the... That if he said, what movie of all movies inspired you to be in the military, it would be in the wild guessesays, is that is it. And for anyone out there who's into movies or making movies I should say, just hear me out here, that is dying to be made into a modern movie,

dying, because it ticks a lot of boxes as well, even in this age, if you made that into a TV show or a movie, just say I'm just giving you that gift. Yeah. Go and look at them while you're still saying, let's make a modern version of this. It's good. And then who dies wins? Have you seen that movie? I haven't.

Who dies wins? Who dies wins? Like the motto of the SES. It's about a SES guy who goes undercover in an anti-nuclear movement and then these terrorists who he's undercover with take over the US Embassy in London and then at the end of it there's a SCS hostage rescue mission and it's Lewis Collins it's just that movie is inspired so many young men to join the SAS. Of course. Of my age group.

Of course. Yeah, it's a great movie. It's a great movie. What about Bravo 2-0? Yeah, I was in the army when that came out. Oh, okay. I was already committed. You're already in there.

Yeah. Yeah, but then there's all the other movies. Again, it. This strange thing of, because we're going to talk about this later on, what is the like, Commando? If someone said what movie have you seen more than any other movie, it would be Commando. But at first Blit Part 2, again, I've talked aboutal, ramble, demolition man, all the clashes. That's a G57.

Like all these die hard. What's the formula? Bad guys do some shit. Lawn man turns up, sorts them out. Sometimes reluctantly. Sometimes against orders. It strangers in their health. And I think that's why there's a lot of popular, why my incident is so popular.

Yeah. Because it's playing into this, like, this is what we grew up on. And so maybe it's a thank you to Sylvester Stallone to Arnold Schwarzenegger, to all these people who helped me, helped with my training, because maybe it is, I think. Yeah. Well, let's take a quick break. And then when we come back, we'll get into Wukachy and the the military how old you were

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It's Shopify.com slash Sean. That's all lowercase. Go to Shopify.com slash Sean. Now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in that Shopify.com slash Sean. All right, Christian, we're back from the break. We're getting ready to dive into some of your military career. But first, what was the inspiration to join so young? You had to aid, if I correct me if I'm wrong, 28-year military career you joined when you were 16 years old. Why did you join so young? What was happening in the world?

It was, it wasn't so much what was going on in the world. It was going on in my world. I just had to get into the army. As I mentioned earlier, I didn't really enjoy childhood. All I was doing was waiting to grow up. And the earlier, the earliest I could get into the army, that's, well, that's what I was going to jump at it. And join the army on a 16. So that's yeah. Did you have any idea what you wanted to do on the army? Absolutely. And you straight away. I don't know and you're wanted to join the parachute regiment which if you wanted to compare us and it's the range of battalion. Okay and I was I wanted to join the parachute regiment

It's the range of Italian. Okay. And I wanted to join the Parachute Regiment. And that was it. There was no, not, I was set. Lots of people, including all of my family, didn't think I was going to be able to do it. They didn't want you to do it. They didn't think I'd be able to do it, because it's hard to become a paratrooper.

It's hard training. And I was a skinny, skinny little guy who looked young and people were like, there's nowhere he's gonna get into the parrots. We have a, there's a test called P company. It's kind of like how weak. And there was a few months before actually enlisted. There was a documentary on the UK TV

and everyone was saying saying that's what Chris was going to do and people were going, he'll never be able to do that. And so people, and some members of my family, my aunt was worried about it because she knew I was fanatical about joining the military and being a warrior, but she was like thinking, about joining the military and being a warrior, but she was like thinking, what's he gonna do when he fails? Because, and that was what people thought,

and it goes back to my grandmother, she knew, she knew, like, my potential. But everyone else takes everything at face value. So people think Navy SEALs are like six foot five. Yeah, you know the, the whole deal and like, what? It's like... It's the same thing. People thought paratroopers were like big tall mean...

mean man and like... big and gnarly. Not young looking little skinny guys. So... But I knew. And I went to the Army Career Recruitment Office. And then they said, come back and do the Endurance Test. You don't need to be very bright to be a power trooper on paper, but I took the test and I completely knocked out the park and they were like wow you did really well on this, which is

one of the things where you when you're older you do your back and go, interesting how I didn't do well at school, I didn't apply myself very well at school. But when you do these, I come, there's a name similar to the US military, you do like a, the test, you score off a chart on it and you're like, and I did really well on this and you can do anything you want. You can, and they were saying, if I was you, I would do an apprenticeship in the role signals, you'll get promoted really fast, you'll get a really much more money, like people want to do this apprenticeship. So I was like, nope, parachute regiment, nope, and they were like, no, you know, it's been 10 years since the four glenswall,

everyone wants to join the parachute regiment. I'm like, yeah, go and care. wants to join the Paris Regiment, I'm like, yeah, go on, okay. And then they said, well, because it's gonna, there's so many people who want to join. The, it's gonna be about a year before you start your training, and I was up, fine, I'll wait. Went home two weeks later, get a phone call, yeah, you start training in September. And there's this call in the bluff bluff and a message here is for anyone,

if you've got something in your mind that you want to do, most of the time people trying to talk you out of it, haven't got your best interests in mind. So just stick to your guns, be stubborn. Nope, nope. And sometimes you might be persuaded because I might be the better thing to do something else, but if you've got a plan, nope, I wouldn't have done it myself because I've seen a lot of people in the British Army and I'm sure it's the same in the US military where

they've went to a recruit officer, hey, I want to be a ranger. And I say, what you could do is, if you join the engineers, you can still do a ranger school and technically you're a ranger. And they're like, well, okay. And then the join and they're like, I didn't sign up for this. I didn't want to, and they do minimum time and get out. It was the same in the British Army. They'd say, do this and lots of people I knew wanted to join the parachute regiment.

And they'd say, no, be an engineer, do be a driver, be a medic. You can still be a power trooper. And they're just being sold, a sold a lie. Yeah, I asked because because I'm sure to say in the US military, these recruiters have got a quarter to meet, say, hey, we, we desperately need more medics drivers, engineers, infantry, and that's what they're going to try and meet that quarter. I believe that's what happened, but I was just stubborn.

And then in September 1992, I entered service into the British army. How old do you have to be there? Is it 16 or did you slide in there somehow? No, it's 16. 16, but you can't, in the Folkans war, some power troopers who were killed on Mount Longdon, in the battle

there were 17 years old. And I think, at some point after that, you can't go on combat operations until you're 18 years old. So join the army, but you can't serve on combat operations until you're 18. So still today, you can join at age 16. It doesn't mean you're leaving the home. And yeah, I mean on my last day in the British Army, I went to the Army Foundation College in Harrogate, which is where all the junior soldiers are now. And I give them a presentation about what I did in Kenya, to 640 recruits, students, whatever you're going to call them. And things have changed. Now I was talking with the Comanche Auditor Major, the RSM as we call them, and they do

a lot of... That's what is, it's Army Foundation. It's building the foundation for young people to have a... Not just a crew or an military, but give them a them right step up in life. So they focus on education, it's still military training, but it's preparing them for life, for service and it's good. When I joined in 1992, the army had your apprenticeships, if you had a trade job, you had the junior leaders. So if you join, like, say the guards, like they'd say the house will cover it, like the guards will enter into your regiment,

say how junior leaders, so it would be a year training and people would get command appointments, so you'd be like a junior Lance Corporal or a junior Sergeant Major if you were good and things and it was, again, a similar sort of thing. Only exception was the parachute regiment. We had junior para, that's what it's called, and it's the amount of, I was the last ever junior para opportunity and then it, the show of the junior army for, I might be wrong here,

but it was for a year or two or a matter time and then the restart it and I think everyone does the same training now but I was the this was the last platoon of junior parrots but the amount of people who went into the SES or became command sergeant majors from junior parrots was it so it was a it was a system that worked. They were preparing people and we're gonna go, like maybe a bit philosophical here, but it was brutal. But you know what? That's what I wanted. Because I'd read about it and the harder, the better,

the more the more the thrashing we got, the harder the physicality, that to me was what I was about. Because I was joined, in my, because I was joining the elite. I'm doing the best I can do at my age, and it was brutal. And I look back now and think, if it be hard as a 16 year old say, would I want that to happen to someone? Part of me would say no, but part of me now is like yeah, but it has to have again It's his conditioning. Yeah, and here's the question He's a thing and it's like it's like an open question to everyone listening to you As I said earlier, we've got the army foundation college

That is setting it like I put it in a good light. It's setting young people up for service and the military and for in life. Great. Junior Parador turned me into a warrior. So what do you want? Because you can't have, in my opinion, you can't have both. Do you want this 17 year old, when they graduate 17 year old,

do you want them to be set up in life? Do you know the message, not we got now, and oh yeah, you're going to do well, and you can do this, and you can drive a car, and you can balance your books, and you've done all you want them to be a fucking killing machine. Because that's what you got from Junior Parah. Yeah, it's like, I remember writing a letter to my mother,

saying, I asked her, when I was researching one man in, Yeah, it's like I remember writing a letter to my mother saying I I asked her when I was researching one man in if she had it she couldn't didn't have it But it was saying how From me I want to die in combat. I want to storm a Michigan position It's the ultimate honor to be killed fighting from a country and so it was that sort of that's what we're saying to me And it was like that thing of growing Yeah, and and that's what you got and to me. And it was like that thing of growing, yeah. And that's what you got. And that's why, like I said,

there's such a many, a lot of these people when it ended up in special forces or career soldiers, the command sergeant major because it was this thing of like, yeah. You know what, as a power troop and where? Why do you join the army? It's like, I want to jump out of airplanes and kill people. That's what I want to do.

Like, okay. Just, and if that rather than going, So I want to jump out of airplanes and kill people. That's what I want to do. Like, okay. And that rather than going, oh yeah, well I want to get a trade, I want to get a midlife experience, I want to see the world, okay. You haven't got the mindset to be dropped behind enemy lines, enclosing with a superior force and kill the Queen's enemies. That's what the view was in my opinion. And the instructors were on that line,

boom, boom, boom, this is what we're training for. We're training for all our war. There was nothing. And you saw when I used to war past, you used to war past, it was in the Guards Deppel in southern England. And you could see the like the Guards' Ptunewal out to put posters and things up on the walls and pictures of their families and stuff. Nothing.

Nothing was allowed up on the walls in the junior parable with the exceptional one thing was the ten commandments of the parachute of the German Falschermäger, the German parachute rifleman. Really? Yeah, that's the only thing that was a lot in every room on the walls. Do you remember them?

Most of them. I'm going to get tested. But the things that step out is for you, you're the embodiment and it changes to British, because it's at the 10 commandments of the power troop. You're the embodiment of the British warrior, for you, the five will be the only one who go. To seek it, always seek it out. What was going on?

Hard as leather, hard as crooks deal. to seek it, always seek it out. What was going on? Oh, no, it's all, it's all, it's tough as leather, hard as crooks deal. Agile is a greyhound, you are the embodiment of the British soldier for you, for them, we'll be about seek it out wherever you can. Something like that, which is the last one, which is pretty, well-turning. And there's other things more controversial,

I say like, be shy of chatter. Men act women chatter, chatter will take you to the grieve. So it's nice. What year is this? 1992. 1992. What was going on in the world then? From your perspective. From the UK, it was just the troubles in Northern Ireland. What kind of troubles? Like the insurgency, so it would be the, there was the only deployment of British troops to go to Northern Ireland and assist with the policing there.

Patrol at patrolling like the streets of the, if the streets and into the rural areas of Northern Ireland. Did you go there? What kind of stuff are you guys doing? We're just doing like routine patrols. Yeah, anything exciting. There was a few, they were big onto the IED. And it's hard to imagine this is still UK

and it's still unrest there now, but not to me personally, but to people in the same company as me, someone got badly injured with an improvised explosive right in an armored vehicle and things. And this is on the streets of UK. Wow, that's crazy. You know the island and it was, and people were being killed every day.

That's still the one on sectarian violence. There's, there's, there's a ceasefire happened in 1995. What is it? What is the, you know, you give us some insight into the, I don't know, I want to do it in justice. Cause yeah, it's just like, yeah, this,

is a criminal. What is it? What kind of organizations? justice because it's just like, yeah, there's a criminal. What is it? What kind of organisations? Well, you have the religious element, Catholics and the Protestant. Again, apologies to anyone watching this because I'm not doing this any justice in it, complicated. But you have the people who, the publicans who want a united island, that's the IRA. That's kind of that.

And then you have a loyalist terrorist who don't want a united island and they fight each other and kill each other. Okay. And it went to claim to a boiling point in the 1960s. Are any of these government entities? Are any of these government entities? There is a political wing of the IRA, which is Sinn Fein. And again, apologies to everyone out there who is watching going, yeah, I'm not 100% in it is.

This is just, this is the way that you understand it. And we were just supporting police operations. I mean, I was a young 18-year-old young guy on patrol. How did it feel? Yeah, it out there for the first time. Yeah, it was good. So, I went to like an operating base in West Belfast, and I was 17 years old when I got there, and we just started like a six-week

rotation in this petrol base. So I can't go on the ground, so I just, so my task when I first got there is I'm the company runner, so I'm sitting in the opposite room making cups of tea and stuff for the people and get delivering messages because no more bar phones or anything that and On the and I've only been there a few days and then my 18th birthday was coming up Didn't think anything of it at the time at the so it's Day before my birthday and my stick who I've been attached to, they're going out on patrol and the stick leaders like hey just hang in the room and watch, you're

not doing duty, you don't have to be in the opposite room tonight, just watch a movie and get you down well and we'll not be back till early hours of the morning, okay. So I'm watching a movie and then I go to bed and then at one minute past midnight, the door gets kicked in and my stick leaders in all these gear and says, who ended up in the SES themselves like a performing me, he's then going, hey, Creecade, get your gear on, we're going out, like because now I'm legal, one minute past, so I put on my full gear and all the police and sticks all the way and from me outside, and I'm on happy birthday. And then the vehicle on my own, we go out on a patrol in the streets.

And that's my, that's my, a few minutes into my 18th birthday. Nice. So what happened? Nothing. Again, most of the time in Northern Ireland, it was just maintaining a presence. How long, how much time did you spend in the regiment? 15 years. 15 years.

And then what? Oh sorry, in the Power Shure regiment. Yes, sorry. Yeah, I was always in the second battalion, the Power Shure regiment for three years. Okay. And then I volunteered to go into Pathfinder, and Pathfinder, and Pathfinder, again, is the Brigade Reconnaissance Force for the airborne brigade. It's very similar. The equivalent in the US would be Force Recon. Okay. So very, very hard selection to get in fast and furious selection. Do the same

hills as what you do on, like in the brick and beacons running around there and navigating on your own. And then once you're in there, you do high the brick and beacons running around there and navigating on your own. And then once you're in there, you do high altitude lobeling, parachute descents and specialist training. They had M16s at the time when M16A2s, when the British Army were still on the S880 weapon. So it was kind of like a poor man's special forces. Okay, what year is this? This is 1996. 1996. And that first year in Pathfinder Patoon was probably one of the best years of my life.

It's so much fun, it was just a good experience. At the, I'm sure it was 1997, they got a Sergeant Major and things went bad then, because before it was like a band of rugs and the Sergeant Major thing. It's not a point of a Sargemajir. It's not a bad mouth of the Sargemajir. But beforehand, I think the command didn't have a point of contact to say, you need to tell your guys to get a haircut.

You got to wear SU equipment. So when the emergence of a Sargemajir, the brigade headquarters now then had a point of contact, so things stopped being fun. And just after a year of getting into Pathfinder's, I then had a really bad accident, road accident. This is a 1997. This is a major, this is a turning point in your life.

Yes, I think again, it's one of those things what, did it have to happen? Probably, and it wasn't very nice, but I was badly injured. What happened? Well, we were driving up onto a mountain training exercise in Scotland and on a more way, one sort of truck pull out in front of another the truck the guy driving it out I was in a land Rover in the back of a

land Rover he swirved kind of lost control of the vehicle or vehicle because there's no witness because most people died so that's what they think happened land Rover rolled down the hill I was catapulted out of the back of the land Rover. I was in a sleeping bag, and that saved my life because as the Land Rover went flat, one of the trucks rolled on top of the Land Rover and crushed it, killing the driver under the pathfinder instantly

and trapping the under the pathfinder in the passenger seat who was injured, but not that badly. And then I was catapulted out into onto the into a tree. And then the family when the emergency service turned up, they found me in the tree, apparently in a sleeping bag and then I was bust up. Yeah, you know. So, I keep on forgetting one of the terms, but I dislocated my hip, so I pulled out of it so I got it in my

hip, I broke ribs on my one of the sides, this side, my right side, I broke ribs there, had a tension, heminal or thorax, things will get bad there, I broke my collarbone, my shoulder blade, I brought my collarbone, my shoulder blade, my jaw, my cheek, my skull, and then I had a bleed on the brain, I had either a subdual hematoma or an extra duomo hematoma. On different medical reports, I say different things. Basically, I had a bleed on the brain, like, threatening. I also brought my neck in three places, I'm back in seven places. So I was in a bad way. Yeah, I was pretty poorly. And the rush me to hospital.

And then the, the north-fives, my mother and my stepdad, they came down and they said to my mother, he's not going to prepare the put me on the ward where it's like he's in life support and I've moved him into the ward where yeah, put me on the ward where he's in life support and I've been moved him into the ward where yeah Big prepared that he's gone and then at some point I was resuscitated twice and then and then I and then

And then there was an acoma for three weeks two two two and a half weeks and then I came out of it and then And then I came out the coma and I'm in the recovery ward and they've taken all that. Luckily I was in the coma for most of the time so I didn't really feel any, I got away with it lightly and I had traction on my leg when I woke up and my neck was kind of there were fractures but the wall was stable so I didn't have to have any of these hair laws or anything on. And I get my, I'm in the recovery ward and I get a phone call, the nurse says, oh there's someone forning you at the desk so I take the traction off so I hobble down and they say yeah make sure you're at work, make sure you're

back at work in like two weeks time after Christmas. It was about four weeks and I was like, okay. And it wasn't even that long ago. It's 1997 and I didn't have any rehab at all for this. Are you serious? It's crazy, isn't it? And it's like no rehab. I didn't even get downgraded on my military docs. I was just like no rehab and it was just like make yourself better. And then eventually I did my first jump five months afterwards. And the first jump I did was a from I think I looked at my log book. It was 18,000 feet with full operational load out and carrying a GPMG dropped to my side. It was the first jump I did after that five months later. And I shouldn't have done it. But a young guy then I'm like 23 gone. Yeah, I'm good. How are you feeling? Yeah, I'm good. Yeah, I'm not good.

But I'm gonna do it. And I suffered a bit with my back for a few years after that. And then, I mean, it's fine now, to do it. But that was weird because that's a thing of, I always say to people who are injured now, it's like, make sure you're fit. Like, no one's going to thank you for it. No one's going to thank you for like putting yourself on the line again early, make sure you're recovered. But here's the other thing as well as I wasn't right because of maybe the bleed on the brain. So my memory when I think about what I was doing in that 1997 into 1998, until about 10 months afterwards, I wasn't right, wasn't right in the head. And I thought I was right. It's like people who do people who are people who are insane, do they know they're insane? No, it's a safe, I'd say that I'd get into fights, I'd be like, and then eventually

I just came, I got better, but it was, but yeah, it's, and again, I'm not throwing dirt, but I was definitely mismanaged. Definitely, they thought, again, they thought it was, I keep on saying again, they thought it would have been better for my welfare to be down and work, but it's a military town. So I'm always going out pretty much most nights drinking and fighting and stuff. So it's like that kind of thing. It's older show in the 90s. It's good and bad. So, but the best thing, what they should have read on is just stay at home. In hindsight, it would have been just stay at home, get fit, have some home cooking,

yeah, family look after you, keep you right, that's what they should have done. Because the in there, like here is come down and the arm, we would keep you right, the arm doesn't keep you right, I was just left with the guys again. So, but yeah, but I recovered from it. I know you're you're on the Iraq invasion correct in 2003. Yeah. Let's rewind just a little bit to 9-11, 2001. Yeah. This is an interesting conversation I think because I've never asked a foreign special operator what it was like on 9-11 from their perspective. And so I'd like to ask you on September 11, 2001, where were you and what was going through your head? I was in the jungle when it happened, so I didn't hear about it initially. I was actually on selection. It was a selection that I was on, I was an SS selection that I filled.

I didn't, well, I didn't feel it. I didn't pass it, but I got injured in the jungle. I got injured, I think was on 9-11. Got Kazivak, though, I was alright, but the train officer wouldn't let me go back into the jungle, so I was then said, come back another time. So I was wittin' and then it's when I got out from the hospital having been checked up. Then it was still on the news, it was like, and everyone's just like, what the hell? But the thing is people like, the common phrase was, this is like, well, it's like watching a movie.

Is this really happening? And so there was that feeling of, wow. And people don't say you can. And I think it's quite sad to say people in the UK, I felt when I got back, no one was really, it didn't, it didn't burn itself in the society like it did in the United States. People were aware of it. But it didn't see that searing sort of were under attack. Mental like focus. It was just, oh, it's another incident. That's how I view it was felt in UK. It wasn't like this energised. It certainly wasn't people joining up. The military got right. I've just saw 9-11, let's attempt a gear, it's time to gear up or whatever, it didn't have that effect.

Did it go through your head that you were probably going to go to war? Kind of, I was very focused on getting into the unit, so I was like, but it's only in hindsight, did I realize that was a turning point for my life as well because that's Mae'n gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaith That's when, but they, so how do I frame this, is that I had a life up until 9-11. I'd always go back to my hometown a lot and then I'd meet my guys that I know from my hometown and go out and socialize and meet people. That's when things got real, because that's when I went and realized what was when I was nearly retiring. Yeah, it's from 2001.

That's when I stopped going on because things got busier. And for me, there wasn't much going, like we were just in the unit, our first appointment was 2003, so we didn't respond. Although Pathfinder did go to Afghanistan in 2002, 2001, but I was going on selection, they got call off at the last moment. But yeah, so but then that's when things got real. And then I joined the Army, I'm sorry, joined the unit in 2000. What is, I mean, so you deployed as an ally to the United States? Correct. I mean, what was the briefing? You know, what is it like to go to war for something that happened to a country that

you're not a part of? I think it's all comes back to how the mainstream media and the politicians frame things, isn't it, about this? We're going because of the weapons and mass destruction. We're part of a allied task force to rid the world of evil, that kind of message is in it. So I think most British soldiers didn't think they were going there to insupport of the United States.

Okay. They were going as part of a task force, which is the United States, and other countries were included. What did it, I mean, but it stuck. I've seen you guys there the entire time, you know, in their Iraq theater, in the Afghanistan theater,

I mean, did it become apparent that the US is gonna drag this war on and on and on. No, I think I think people just get more soldiers, the average like time-spanning people in militaries, long career soldiers, but people just like go with it. A lot of it for myself, it's more hindsight. Yeah. How did that happen? Yeah. What was the what was the pulse of just the UK in general? I mean the Europe was

Europe was very critical of every move that the US made and then in both of those wars. However Most of them took part in the war. The media as far as I'm aware, we're pretty supportive of going to war and support our troops. Really? Things, apologies if I'm wrong. But I was there. So I mean, I was deploying, so I didn't really get it. So I'm not really seeing the newspapers

because I'm deployed. That's what I think happened, but I'm maybe wrong. But people might be calling me wrong and they're just working on a hang side. Go, no, no, no, no, we all know I wanted to go to war. Tony Blair took us into a legal war blah blah blah. But I suggest that you maybe weren't saying that at the time. Now you're just saying it in hindsight because you know information and that's easy to do and we'll talk about it and then say later on as

people talk about it and so remember people when you're doing it you don't know the outcome same as same as when people think about these weapons of mass destruction whether at the time people thought they existed so it's easy now to point fingers and say we shouldn't have done it. Yeah. But I mean, what was the pulse of your unit, where you guys excited? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Any opportunity to go to combat or potential combat is should be greeted with enthusiasm. But yeah, hopefully this will be it. The two deployments,

then before we hadn't really seen any combat, when I say combat, I'm using the term combat, shooting an exchange of gunfire isn't necessarily combat in my opinion. So, but like, there's a lot of people in Iraq and Afghanistan will find out in the future that, you know, that then it was like on.

There's some guys in the British Army had some real, real tough fights. But at that time, it was kind of an unusual thing, gone into 2003, that hadn't been this. How long it had been since the regiment had been at war? Where were you guys drawing during the regiment in 2003? This is, I'm still in the pathfinder. I guess what I'm asking is where were you guys drawing your experience from?

Again, I'm getting confused because sometimes people most people call the red I call the unit I call the the SES the unit, but a lot of people call the SES the regiment. Okay, so when you some time But from the For anyone from the parachute the last sort of proper scrapping War was the forklens war in 1982 assault proper scrapping war was the Falklands war in 1982. So you're drawn from 1982 experience in 2001. Well, in 2010. But then when they went to Afghanistan, it wasn't, it wasn't, it was the different Afghanistan. So 2003 was when this army's deploying to Iraq to, to, to, a rock to the inflate a rock. You understand what I'm asking. So, so, and with the seal teams, when we went in,

you're drawing off experience from very real world operations. I mean, there was some stuff that went down in Panama and Colombia, right? There was a couple of seals on the ground in Somalia. There wasn't a whole lot of experience, like real experience. It's a draw from. Exactly the same thing. You had a lot of experience of peacetime. And that was the same thing in the Army I joined, because as much as the super professional and dedicated instructors and training, none of them had seen any combat.

Yeah. With the exception of, in junior par, one, one, one, one corporate was in the foreklens and one of the, and this, between sides, it was in the foreklens. But the others were talking about, yeah, he, kill, kill, kill, but none of them had done it before. Mm-hmm. So it was, it's interesting when you think about it about it, and I think that's where the military is heading now, is we've got a whole generation of instructors who missed the boat on the war on terror.

Yeah, and are drawing an experience of, so now the teacher's going to pinion rather than an experience. Yeah, well, this is a whole other direction that we can go into, but I mean, personally, I believe here in the U.S., I can't speak for anywhere else, I believe that they are actively trying to get rid of all of the wartime experience in that entire mindset. that's why you're seeing the forced vaccinations. That's why you're seeing the woke agenda. Yeah, that's why you're seeing forced in what are they inclusivity? Yeah, you know all of these things nobody joins the military to deal with that kind of shit. Yeah, you know they join the military to defend their country and go to war fight and Go to battle for their country.

It seemed like a marker shame if you say that nowadays. You say, what do you want to do? I want to go to war. All of the recruitment I'd say, it's all based around the war agenda. It's about peace time, up type operations, support and influence. Yes, they're important. But it's always like that sort of narrative. Not full on... There's no pride in it. Full on the Russians are attacking.

It's World War Three. Let's go, not of that. It's like, I'm a suspect. I can only speak for myself and people may strongly disagree with this, but it's like a mark of shame now, if you were served in, if you said, I was in the war on terror,

it's like, oh, we don't talk about that. That's not what we're about. Yeah, we're doing really good at it. I say it costs me and a lot of other people, a lot of things. Referring numbers are down in the UK. I believe so. Yeah, yeah.

There are. And especially into the, I don't know firsthand, but I someone said there was an article recently that recruitment into special forces or the tier one special forces is at an out all time low as well. Yeah. Apparently, I might be wrong, but apparently it's I know for a fact it is here, but it seems like it's just it gives a message. It's a message. It's like where your action movies, all these cond, it's like training from the minute you born. Now you have a generation of people, not all of them.

This is the generation, why would I want to do that? What was a high chance of death? High risk. Do I get paid more? Not really. Why would I want to do that? It's just strange. It's actually a good question.

Yeah, it's a... Bruggan writes. It's for like, it's Bruggan writes. This is the biggest movie. Eagles, I was brilliant. That's what it's for. It's like, why do you want to do it? Well, so I can see I'm a Nevisio.

I mean, looking at it, like, listening to what you're saying, I'm hearing it and I'm like, actually, this is just common sense. Yeah, who's the man who gets paid more? No. Why would I want to... Yeah. Do I get paid more? No. Why would I want to go? Yeah. Do I get paid more? No.

Is there a chance of death? Yes. Simon, you're, I mean, there's a high chance you do this mission. You're never going to come back to one way mission. Sounds great. Perfect. Yeah. Well, let's rewind.

Let's go back to 2003. So you deployed for the invasion, the Iraq invasion in 2003, as a pathfinder. How many people are you deploying with? In my team, it was a six-man team. That's it? Yeah, six-man, like the reconnaissance team. When we deployed into across the border, my patrol wasn't employed, Mae'n gwybod yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ym I'm not going to employ you yet, waiting for the right job for you, which was for straying for me and for straying for my team.

But then I got a job and it was good. Well, it was good. It was a close target reconnaissance of an Iraqi army division. So men getting close to the Iraqi army division, on foot going in and getting as close as you can trying to, work out numbers, routine, and also look at there was a MSR, like a road behind the army division, there's also a secondary mission was to check the quality of the road and what condition it was in and that kind of vibe and general atmospheric of the area. So this is so path finders is a reconnaissance element. Yeah. Is there a sniper element as well? The sniper

is in every team. There's a sniper in every team. So for this mission, it was like you're going to there's 4,000 Iraqi troops in this army division. Four of that, you guys are... And it's me, Condustin Suleiman. Six-man team, no air support. And it's... I've got, I was a J attack at the time. I was the team leader, and I carried the radio in case we, if we needed air support, we'd do a nine-line end.

It would, but it wasn't overhead. It would be chalk to us if we needed it. And we'd do a nine-line and it would, but it wasn't overhead, it would be chalk to us if we needed it. And I had to think about this, it was, I'm gonna say to everyone, it's a true story and it doesn't mean everything I say is bullshit, but it was a good mission. And they also actually said to me,

you don't have to do this because it's a high, we kind of work these, that you're gonna come into contact with the enemy. It's high risk, you don't have to do this because it's a high, we kind of work these said that you're going to come into contact with the enemy. It's high risk. You don't have to do it, but if you want it, you can do it. And I was like, of course, I'm going to do it. There's like, yeah. So I then came up with the plan and because of the, did you say, I'm going to get it paid more. Yeah, no, what? There's a high chance of dying. Yeah. Yes.

But it was. I mean, yeah. Yeah. But so my, how I'm doing this is we're going to use another patrol to, we'll call it a sponsored patrol. So we drove to, like, a release point. And so we got given this operations box around this Armored Division.

And you had three parrots, third time in the parachute, their sniper team was on looking at the bottom bit and then the Armoured reconnaissance was looking into the top it and then my team was going to go into the actual Hornets nest. The sponsor patrol so all in all there'd be two vehicles from my team and two vehicles from the sponsor patrol would go to a lease point. And then I would leave my vehicles behind and then go in on foot. So the sponsor and and because of noise, I didn't want to take six people there. So I said, I'm going to go in with three people, me and two others. So we then work out who's going to do it. So I go in, I've gotten my the Army Assi-A-E rifle

with a 40 mic, grenade launcher underneath, I've got the radio for the aircraft, and then take Paddy, who was actually my second-in-command, brilliant sniper. He's going in with a sniper rifle. And the reason for that is when we get to a point where we're going to approach in on foot, palliades and set up with the sniper rifle give overwatch whilst me and a guy called Larry would then go in two of us towards the armored vehicles and try and scope it out. So less people, less movement, less noise. And Larry, who's ended up into the SES as well, brilliant soldier, brilliant mindset, he had the 249, the minimi. And so we had, and we had hand grenades and

browning high-power pistols. So we're taking as much firepower as we can for three men. So we, on the first night, we have a bit of an incident, one of the vehicles rolls and the second in command of Pathfinder's and an officer gets badly injured and he ends up that's the mission gets scrubbed that night. Next night just reset and do it again. This time everything goes well, we get to the release point and then we set the three of us set off on foot into the into the Xarmid division. The going from the release point to the towards it is terrible. There's like like mountains of mud, like mud mountains and it was so bad going. So I should add as well for that night we blacked out

all our faces. Not like camouflage cream, not black face. So we just, and my theory was, because I'd heard it from an experienced SESC a years earlier who told me a lot was that if you come face to face with the enemy, it gives you like a good edge, having camouflage cream on. And we sort of knew we were gonna come into contact

with the enemy. And like before we left, we stripped down our weapons, cleaned the magazines, everything, because it was like a given. sort of knew we were going to come into contact with the enemy and like before we left we stripped down our weapons, cleaned the magazines, everything because it was like a given. People were very envious of what we were going to do it because we knew. So we're set off on foot and it's, the going is so bad, like really bad. So I, I can't have to make command decision but I'm going to run it through these, these two guys who are holding the highest regard. So of course, look, we're not going to make, we, but I'm gonna run it through these two guys who are holding the highest regard.

So of course, look, we're not gonna make, if we continue to go on this course, we're not gonna get there in time in worst case, we'll be strapped in the daylight in the open. I said, so what I suggest is we get onto this track, you know, the rules, we don't walk on tracks, but we get on this track, move down the track, it's pace up until there's

some set of power lines crossing it. And so that will use that power lines as a mark and then get off the track and then move towards the armoured division. You're happy with that because it's moving on track on track and I know, but I think it's the best idea and they're like, absolutely, it's the best call.

So get on the track. I'm number one, Larry with the minimise is number two and Paddy at the back with the sniper rifle and I'm moving down this that moving down the track As we're approaching Like there's like so there's on the right hand side of this track was a burn about six feet high All the way down as you see in the middle is a lot and high all the way down as you see in the middle east a lot and moving down the track and see the power lines and just as about to break off the power lines to the Corpus, my day sack with my package aching my arms and I stopped to adjust it and as I stop here whispering to my right hand side. I'm like, so he will spring Timor right hand side. I'm like, in Arabic, so slowly, slowly turn.

And I'm like that. We had no vision goggles on him, like to the two of the guys in my eye. Like thumbs down, like enemy, like there. And then, and then Larry's like stops posing, like silently swings straight away to cover. And this instance is about about eight yards apart. That's it.

From each of the three of us. So there's eight yards to me, Larry, and then eight yards back to Paddy. But the berm is about to meet you away, and the whisk brings on the other side of it. So I'm like... And... And I'm like, and I'm like, a Tilarian party in the slowly walk up. And then as we, as he get up, like, there's whispering, whispering over the other side of the bear, like, because it's this thing on the message was like, you can't engage

the enemy unless you're getting engaged or like thing and I'm like and all of a sudden I don't know if it's because they're the movement, the whispering, someone stands up behind the berm, instantly I reach up lean up and take a shot, one shot in my weapon jams, one shot in my weapon jams. Then I go into trans state, I don't freeze out, I'm like, boom, he goes down, but my weapon stopped. I just run straight down to my vocal pocket, pull out high explosive grenade, run over the berm, sorry, I'm missing a bit out. Before the, as they close up, I then silently go to the berm and look over the top when my vision goggles on. And I can see around about eight to 12 Iraqi soldiers all in a huddle talking to each

of their own stuff. So I think where the power lines was, it was like a, they were using that as a, like we were, as a marker, and it was like a standing patrol or a sanctuary position. Then I closed down and then I say eight to twelve Iraqi armies on his soldiers behind the berm, and I don't know if it's because they heard the movement or they heard my voice that. Then then guys down to take the shot, he goes down, so you killed him. I don't know. I don't know if I hit him, well I'll probably hit him, but I don't know if I killed him, it was oneJER, you know, with NATO ammo, but he goes down. I then run up with the high explosive grenade, throw it down into the, into all the Iraqis. That

detonates and there's a bit of a scream and there's still threat to life and all there. I am a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a'r ddol, a M249, he's dealing with threats and then, and then, um, Paddy with a sniper rifle, he's then throwing hand grenades to potential depth position. Wow. And, uh, so this is my first experience of using lethal force. And, um, and there's a lot of takeaway points from this. So then, when, so then I'm like, okay, let's go. And, um, um, I'm like, that's what I quickly, quickly clear that stoppage. What I think had happened is the cocking handle on a SA moves back and forth and when I fire that first round, it caught on my loose black jacket.

And then, so that then, so the all threats have been neutralised, like I said, they all, like I reckon I straight away. Firstly, when we set up and then when we took the shot and went over the top and the detonators, they were still, you know what, high explosive grenades, like it's not like the movies where everyone gets blown. It's like, more of a stung, but people were there. Weapons, threat to life.

We were in the middle of it, we're a war. So then we, I engaged five of them and then take them down and then, like I said, all the other things go on. And then say, right, let's go, use two move back and I'll cover it. So we then do the, I'm like holding it, they're running back, running, moving back. I fired a 40 mil grenade just beyond the position, just to

just to any sort of follow up. And then I said, right, get on the road and let's fucking go. So we did a couple of bounds and then it was turn and then run. And to all these doubters in the military, you say, do you want me to come up fitness tests and you got your gear and you got to run fast for two miles. It's for things like this running. And we run to the emergency extraction point or the emergency rendezvous. Get there, Larry, sorry, Paddy then set up his sniper rifle, so looking down hopefully we're hoping there's going to be a follow up and but then I'm on the radio, yeah send

a con at report asking for the sponsor patrol to come and pick us up. And then we're waiting in the dock. And it's funny because Larry's like cursing until we're so quietly under his mouth going, why the fuck aren't they coming? Like he's, like, and that's it, well, I'll angry that they're not following us.

We're, why aren't they trying to attack us? Why aren't they coming after us? Because again, it's that mindset. We want this army division, there's this strange mentality, we want the army division to mobilize and come at us. And so eventually the sponsor patrol gets here and we get extracted out. And then back to all the way back to the headquarters, get there

for like further and obviously it's talk of the town because people are saying, well, they've had close quarter engagement. And it's all good and we get ready to go in the next night. So it's like, so mission kind of failure because you got compromised. But they say we're happy to go in the next night to establish a and this time the next night would go in and put an observation post in. We'd still do the CTR, but then do the observation post. But the takeaway point was like, so like preparation, that my, the reactions that I did and same as Paddy and Larry, they were critical because we kind of knew

we were going to get into a fight. The odds are it was almost certain, and everyone knew that, we get head quarters, everyone knew that. So we were keyed in to that. I often think if that had been a routine patrol and we'd stumbled across the enemy in such a way, would we have reacted? Yn yw'n gweithio'r ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ym to kill someone today. And they're like, a lot of the times saying, no, why not? You're carrying a gun. Someone thinks that you're such a threat that you need to carry a gun or you think you're a threat that you need to carry a gun. So you really should be thinking you're going to have to use lethal force today. Otherwise, why are you carrying it? To me, it seems logical. But again,

it's, and what I'm, what's that to run a jump? It sounds like a psychopath, it's like, have your head in the game. Earlier to what, from what, something I saw earlier, about seeing the signs, knowing, like, anyone who pulls a trigger with a surprise look on the face and never usually ends up, well, so it's that whole thing, you see it coming, you see the signs, you get prepared, you get your head in the game, and this could be taking place over milliseconds. But that's the good point of that. That is a damn good point. That's a hell of a first engagement.

A rightful malfunctions. You go up, you use a fragmentation grenade, and then you kill five people with a pistol. Which is it like going home after that What's it like going home after yeah, it's I mean to me one did it register oh straight away, but It for me it was like what happened I used I mean It I went I went to sleep that night. Maybe we're gonna circle back to this later on

when we talk about faith because there's something happening between. But after I happened in between, let's just do that. Okay, so I go to the option. Like, what happened is I had a close court engagement with the enemy. Things went wrong. I'd performed. It was kill or be killed and I did my job and it was all this thing. As we all know in the military, I do you think you could really

kill a man? You think you could do that? How would you think you're doing combat? It came to me that close court was closer than what or the same probably the same distance that I am to you was the engagement range and it was high stress, high speed incident and not only die perform well, Paddy, my TIC and Lauren, all perform, like bomb, bomb, bomb and it was a good feeling, great feeling. I was tested in the older my way, close quarter combat and we won and we live and we fight another day. That's what it's to me is a good feeling. So I get to the brigade headquarters, the Brigadier wants to update everything of that and I'm talking to people I shake my hands in, good job, things like that. And then see the Padre, who's a friend of mine. At this point I don't feel

any guilt, so I have no guilt about it at all. I don't feel, and I still, to this day, I don't feel bad about it. It's like again, it's a combat experience. And I see the, I see the Padre and I look and all of us feel as well of emotion inside me. Do you know when you do something bad at school or when you're a child and you say your parents and you think, oh, you bought a new start shaking or whatever, it was like that. And he kind of must have saw that. And he knew I was a man of faith. And he said to me, he said, Chris, do you want to go and take communion? Right now, and I'm on, yeah.

So we went to a makeshift, made a makeshift sort of altar, if you like. And then he did, like, he did, like, to call a communion. And, and I'm there on my knees and it felt like I was closed praying and it felt like someone had moved this halogen sort of light above me and turned it on and I could feel this light and warmth going through me as a two communion. It was like I could feel it. It's like, I could feel it. And not only can I feel it, it's like,

literal like there was a light above me, even though my eyes were closed, it was like, right, as if someone would put a search light above me and I could feel it hit off the light, running through my body. Wow. And I opened my eyes and the part where it looks at me and says,

did you feel that? And I'm like, yeah, I go, I thought it might just be me, right? No, he goes, sometimes you, I go, is sometimes there's moments when you are close to God and we were close to God right now. What did that feel like after he said that? Yeah, it was...

It... It... It's a bit of a punks, because I think the bit in it, it enlighten me. It felt like I was... It felt like I had laser focus. It felt like I was... I felt clean, if that makes sense.

I felt like... I could breathe. Do you know a bit like if you've been on a spa day or something, it was like walking out of a spa day. And then I went to, this is where maybe I got a bit low brow. And then when did the report went to where where my team was sleeping, got on my sleeping bag, zipped it up and went and as it was falling asleep,

falling to sleep it was like, it was a little boy who just had the best Christmas present ever because as I said earlier, I'd been tested in combat and may, like friends and I had all been tested, we all, and we all, we all want, we want. We were put into the, into the, into the hornets nest, face to face with the enemy, and we got out of it, and we did, we did a good job. So I was like, yeah. Was that the first time in your life that you had really felt that close to God?

Yes, it's one of the decades right there. Yeah. So two first experiences within 24 hours, probably within less than 24 hours. Well, within four hours. Within four hours of each other, you had taken another man's life for the first time and felt the presence of God. Well, extremely close.

Hey, extremely close. I think I've felt the presence of God before that. Do you think that's a coincidence? No. No. Why do you think that happened at that point in time? I think it was part of a... It's the, like,

every time I move away from faith, I get pulled back in. Let's say a break. Yeah. Did you know that one in five Americans have learned a new language on their bucket list? It's true. If that's you, check it off your bucket list this year because with Babel, you can start speaking a

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All right, Christian, we're back from the break. We had just kind of covered your first operational combat experience with the Iraq invasion. And so before we move on in your careers or anything else that you would like to discuss when it comes to the Iraq invasion. And so before we move on in your careers or anything else that you would like to discuss when it comes to the Pathfinder. Yeah, I think you'll just leave it at that. You wanna leave it at that? Yeah, I don't leave it at that. That is, that is.

Perfect. Well, let's move into the SAS. It took you three times to get in there. Yeah. When did you find times to get in there. When did you find out about the Special Air Service? I found it quite young as a, as a, as a, as it, when I was quite young. Okay. And as a stiller today, they were within newspapers a lot.

The Iranian Embassy siege happened in 1980. I, I can't remember that. I, I was only in four years old, but I, I, that, people say they're Mae'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r ymwch chi'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweith 11 or 12 years old, which is still, you could argue to you, you could see that movie, but I saw it. And in my mind, I always, that's why I need to be in the SCS. When I joined the army, and when I was in training, and when I was, I never mentioned about joining the SCS, I never openly set it to people. Well, I want to do one thing at a time, I want to get in the parachute regiment first.

Let's get in the power of your regiment first. And then... So, but in my heart, even when I went into the Army recruiting office, I wanted to... You know what I mean? I wanted to be in the ICS. You know. What is the...

Can you explain a little bit of the difference between SAS and SPS? There's kind of no real difference. They do thePS. There's kind of no real difference. Well, there's no real difference. One is the, so there are a lot of different people who say, what's he saying that for? The selection process is identical, so we do the joint selection. Okay, so you make a stand? Yeah, so you do do join selection and that. And they're the on paper, they are the maritime tier one special forces element. Okay. So there's not one up here, you know, one

they're equivalent. They're supposed to be the same. Roger that. Roger that. When it comes to the selection, are you recruited for SPS SAS? You volunteer for, are they, do they both fall under an umbrella? You can if you and the army applied to join the SPS and if you're in the Navy or the Rom rains, you can apply to join the S SAS. So this is basically Delta SEAL Team 6 equivalents. Yeah, correct. SBS would be more of the Team 6 Delta would be more of the SAS.

OK, makes sense. And you volunteer, so you put a question through your unit. That goes to the recruitment cell. And then you have to do some pre, pre courses, to go on selection and then you go on selection and it's a six month process and then continuation training after you're barged into your units. But the continuation training is then separated. So the guys who pass the SES selection do their continuation training

in Heriford and the SPS in pool and that's where they'll do their dive training in things. Okay. Do you guys do dive training? No. No. All air stuff. It's just a mix. No, okay. Gotcha. What is the, what is these, what are they looking, what do you think they're looking for when it comes to recruiting SAS guys? I think we, being blunderbar, is the one people who are physically capable, whatever that means, so robust and fit, really fit and really robust. People but more importantly a

selection continues is you need to be able to assimilate information. Time is always precious. In theory, selection should be much longer but we're so are criming a lot of stuff in and train a test and evaluate. So we want people who can pick up a similar emulation quickly, get told something, put into practice, and then do the next skill set. And being able to work with whether the people is another key requirement. So that's kind of what they're looking for. Is there a certain type of disposition, attitude, the meaner that they're looking for? Not what they're looking for. I think people just fall into that category. What is it like, do they have interviews before you go to this selection? I'm not, they didn't when I was, you just threw your name in the hat, get approved in your head.

Yeah, well, yeah, and you do the calls here. Interesting. What is the, what would you say the culture is like? What is it like when you show up for selection? Are they welcoming? Do they treat you like shit? No, it's very quiet. It's just people.

Again, we're on the borders of what I'm going to talk about and not talk about, but when you turn a selection, it's similar to joining the army again. Everyone's measuring everyone up. From the instructor point of view, they're not seeing anything. They're not imposing anything. They don't need to. Strickly evaluation. It's just they're not like screaming, shouting, doing whatever. They're just, they're part of the, they don't, like

say, the selection process. They, they, people know what they're getting into, but it's more of the, you know, when 200 people or so, just short 200 people turn up on day one and you're looking around going statistically about, you know, six to, six to 12 people are going to graduate out of this. So you get a bit of five percent chance at making. Sometimes it's bigger courses, sometimes it's smaller, but like pass, but you're looking around, you're thinking, who's going to pass? Am I going to be one of these?

Is someone else you're weighing it up and just getting the measure of what people are supposed? So that's roughly a five percent success rate. I believe so. That's what it should be. How many people came out with you? Well, we had a quite a big course. I must be uneasy.

So it's like, I think 18 came out. 18 came out. Nice. At what point do you figure out if you're going SAS or SPS? Beforehand. Before. So you know what you're trying out for, beforehand.

They don't put you into a box and say you are actually better in the SBIS and you put it in full for service in the SS. That may have changed. No, I'm not sure. I'll deliver it somewhat. So what happens if they have a class where everybody wants to go SS? That's it. And nobody wants to go SAS. Because me causes one person, it's past. No, two people, I think it was one. So it's like, yeah. Interesting. Well, how do they feel billets?

That could be a potential problem. I'm out of the loop now. So the big problem is we have a lot of people. I think people are leaving now because of the war and terror is finished. So this tends to be people leaving and sometimes the more people are leaving, then coming in. And it's really interesting just to see. We're going to go off on a tangent here, so get ready. But it's really interesting to me to watch special operations, the tip of the spear globally,

just diminish and vanish into... I feel like it's going to vanish into nothing. You know, the Canadian guys... Have you ever worked with them? The cans off. Of course, I'm fine with that. Two, one. Guys, I mean, recruitment numbers way down, way completely demoralized the unit.

I interviewed this guy Dallas, Alexander. I know that he's a friend of mine. No kid. You guys know each other? Yeah. Well, damn, I wanted to connect you, but so much for that. Yeah, we met recently at the, we were supporting frontline healing foundation and he was playing stuff and that's the first time we met. Oh cool. But we talked to each other before and

like, so it was like for these real great guys. I love that guy. He's salt to the earth. Like just... That's what I keep saying to him that I was remembering me when you're super famous. Remember me when you're, when you're, because he is good. And this is not a shameless, what do you call like a plug for him? He is, I said, you are, you're waiting to, yeah, this, yeah. Yeah.

He's, some of his tracks are like good. But their numbers are down. British Special Forces numbers are down. American Special Forces numbers are down. American Special Forces numbers are down. Nobody's signing up for this. I feel like the Special Operator is becoming obsolete. Do you feel like that? I feel like warfare is evolving and the Special Oper apparatus is being phased out. I would say I think it's more of the ebb and flow of society and the military. You know, and some things are popular, some things are unpopular, and it's just this. And I don't, I can't really speak on behalf of UK special forces because like I say, I'm out of the look,

so I don't know how they're recruiting it and how their retention is. But I've heard it's not good, but that might be not going to be wrong. But it's this ebb and flow of like right now, they're not, they're not, like 10 years ago, that they were the, they were the, the, the, the, the pick of the letter. Now maybe maybe things are focusing elsewhere or who knows, and like I say, it's just an epiphaned flow. And it's usually something happens to then, oh, we need to make this a priority again.

Yeah, so I think it's a real shame to just watch all the experience disappear, you know, because when the next disappear, you know, because when the next war comes up, that experience, all of that experience will be gone, because they've demoralized the unit, the units. I think the problem with it, it's not this is not focused to special forces, is when you have leadership who looked at the political side of things and try and please their political masters, like instead of like the focus of supporting the army, they're just looking for the next

gig probably, and to be popular with their political masters and, you know, they're to know. So that's why everything's all this corporate knowledge is just lost. Yeah, all this skill sets, they don't care because it's like a black mark. I was in the, I was served in Iraq and Afghanistan and people might say, oh, we don't talk about that.

We don't want to know what you did. Yeah, we don't want to know that. And it's rather than saying, right, what did you, what did you actually learn? What were some of the points so we know now we've got a whole generation potentially of instructors who haven't been in a... You haven't done like fob life. From an art, this is speaking from a Green Army point of view.

All these guys who served in fobs and leaders and things. And now they've gone. And now there might be another generation who they didn't pass that on to. Because they need that information. No one decided to capture it. It's not only do they not decide to capture it, they have ostracized the experience from some of the units.

Dallas is a perfect example. I mean, the man was on a, what, four man sniper team that has the longest sniper kill in the history of the world. And they ostracized him from the unit. They flushed that experience down the fucking toilet. There is an element. Isn't that we've covered this? And it's new to this time. I've seen it as the veterans. It didn't much didn't want to say don't like success. They don't like good things.

Yeah. So it takes a longer sniper shot. I mean, with what you were involved in an Nairobi and all the experience that we're that we don't even know about. I mean, they have. We'd look at the experience you have to pass on to the future generations of SAS, and they fucking flush that down the toilet. It's disgusting. You know, you could have imparted a lot more wisdom than you have on that unit. And I'm sure you would have been.

So after that, I am on good terms with my with with two SIS. You are at this moment in time. I'm on good good terms. And I read there's a whole lot of reasons why I retired. I didn't retire bitter. I did I did have some grievances with some leadership members and I felt that either they were jealous of what I did or they were getting pressure from outside of the regiment. But it was more of a timing thing. I did 28 years and things like that. So I left the SES, extremely proud that I'd served in that unit and I was on camp just about three weeks ago talking with the command hall major. And so, hey, I'm friendly forces. Like I said to him, I'm not bitter towards the regiment and bitter towards the British

government, I'm British towards the Ministry of Defence and I'm British towards some person out here of leadership who were in command in 2019, 2020. That's my issue. And it's all personal stuff, it's not. But it's a, yeah, I'm super proud of the SS and I would always support them if I could. But to your point, it's not just me, there's lots of men with lots of experience and once you're out, they don't care. They're not calling people back or saying, what do you think about this and not saying,

I mean, I get messages from operators saying, hey, I'm looking at this weapon scope. What do you think on it? We're looking about doing this sort of drill for a hostage rescue. What do you think? I'm like, all right, okay, I'm looking at this weapon scope. What do you think on it? We're looking about doing this sort of drill for a hostage rescue. What do you think? And I'm like, all right, Caleb, well, you know, I'm good. And that's what comes back to you on the, on the, of support.

Maybe we'll touch on it later, but that's one thing I'm extremely grateful for is that I've had nothing but support from members and peers of the SES. Not just guys are served with, yn ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ymwch i'r ym join the ACS, thanks and the guys all send the regards and stuff. And it's not just about what I did that day. They're actually talking about social media, the potential book, which probably isn't going to come out, but the book that's been written, this is a story that needs to be told. And we'll touch on that in a bit anyway,

but it's good to get support from your peers. Yeah. And let's talk about the culture within that unit. Let's talk about the, just the culture, what daily life is like is an SAS operator. So what do I mean by the culture? I mean, how are you received when you make it through selection and you get to you? I think you're a man. I kind of don't want to really talk much about this. Everyone's just driven and they're working towards whatever the mission at hand is. That's it.

That's it. Yeah, that's what I'm going to say on that. Every squad is different, every team is different. The best way to round it all off is everyone in that area, nearly everyone. But driven professionals working towards whatever mission is their focus. That's what it is across the board. Okay.

Well, we will scoot past SAS into 15 January 2019 when I wrote the Kenyap. Five terrorists from El Shabab, Somalia. It's was a 19 hour gunfight standoff evacuated approximately 700 civilians. There were 21 casualties, 28 wounded 19 Kenyans, one American, one British. Was that the Dusset D2 luxury hotel

in 14 Riverside plaza in Nairobi's affluent Westgate neighborhood. Let's talk about that day. So how did that day start? So that day, just before we go into it and people sit up and the incident itself people know about it, am I going to talk about that incident, not really. I'm going to talk around it and I'm going to mention it but I'm not going to talk about what I did and what happened that day, just so we're clear, just so people are aware of this. But it's a remarkable day and a remarkable story. And it starts the day started in an unusual way. So I did my own

little bit of training that morning just by myself. I was training out in the in a rural area and didn't finish my day's training or my morning's training was early start and I'm driving back to the city. I'm driving down the road and as I pull onto what I would call the men but it's just a dirt track leading into the city. I pull on and on this dirt track you sometimes see a mass eye, tribes and I'm walking down it you sometimes see workman Who are working on the Chinese real circuit in Kenya? But you don't really see many people on this dirt track because To walk from where I pulled on to the road to the nearest village would probably take you a good three hours plus And it's a

dirt track so pull on to this as a pull on to this track So pull onto this, as I pull onto this track, I'm kind of taken off guard, because I see this guy walking down the road and he's dressed a short black guy, rounded black guy, wearing a business suit, a macular business suit, and highly polished shoes. And then something, I do something strange, I do something that I shouldn't have done.

Just common sense, nothing to do with drills, procedures. I stop my vehicle, put the wind down and say, hey, buddy, do you want to lift? Something compelled me to pick him up to say, do you want to lift? And why I did that, you know, I would not have normally done that. And but something compelled me to do that. So a big smile and he runs over and gets into the car. Start driving off and he's like, what's your, thank you so much for this. What's your name?

I'm like, it's Chris. And he's like, tells me his name. And then he looks, he says, how old are you? I'm time 43. It was I'm 43 because when were you born? I said September. So I was born in September. What day were you born? I said 15th. It's like I don't know what day I was born but that's just a good sign because that means in September 1975 Chris and his name were both born and he chuckles and he's like he says some of this with a car on really recall driving a bit further than any reaches into his pocket my internal spider sense is not triggered here I don't feel threatened anything I don't feel and he pulls out this big like dagger. And it's not odd dagger.

And what I found was odd was curved, but you had to double tip. So I had two tips at the end, which I've never seen. And I just smile and say, you're not gonna try and kill him, do that, are you? And he's like, no, no, I'm not going to kill you. This is a carry this one I'm traveling on this road in case I come across any demons or evil spirits.

It comes in very handy. Any chuckles to himself and puts it away. So then moving on, and I turn, as I, I tend to, it's judging how you're dressed, I take it, you're going into the city. And it's like, no, no, no, no, please just drop me off at the first village we come to. And I saw we're reporting on now,

when it, it's an African village, so now when it it's an African village so it's an African village right and and I'm with this village is like yes yes but don't take me into the village drop me just off outside so okay so as we come to a stop it opens the door and then as he's foot hit to the ground, something happens, he's foot hit to the ground and his face changes. When I say changes, it's still the same man, but it's a bit like if I was, you know, when someone offends you and you pull the face like, oh, like you've, you've gone from smiling, you'd be like, oh, serious, like what? His face changed. And then he said, Chris. And when he said Chris, I felt it in my heart. It like,

it, it, it wasn't loud, but it was loud with stern. It was, it was like, it wasn't, it wasn't like, it shut Chris, but it was, it could have. Like, and I thought to explain, it wasn't loud, but it was loud. It wasn't loud, but it was deafening. It was like Chris, may God bless you many times this day. And then like that, his face just snapped out of it. And he's like, thank you, thank you, thanks, thanks, thanks. Back in his normal voice, normal face. And he closed the door and I drove off. And I got about 150 yards on the road, I couldn't say him again. I think he might just a'r ddolf yn ymwch. A'r ddolf yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn fyrddol yn fyrddol yn ffyrddol yn fyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn ffyrddol yn fyrddol yn fyrddol yn came to think about it a lot more. What happened?

Well, then a few hours later, five terrorists attacked the Ducet D2 hotel complex. Five hours there, so everything, the strange thing, not strange thing, but traditionally, I would see myself as unlucky. And if someone had said, this is going to happen on your watch, I'd normally say, well, I'm probably going to be on leave somewhere else, not available, don't hear about it.

But from the moment I dropped that man off and he said, may God bless you many times this day, everything was perfect. I got my haircut, I went and got my haircut after that, had a haircut, I then had lunch, I think a home had a shower. And again, I'm not going to go into detail of the incident, but every second counted. And if anything to them was off, everything was just perfect. And then the whole, and then not only perfect, but the whole, everything else was just like, yeah.

What were you doing when the incident kicked off? I just got out of shower. How did you hear about it? A friend of mine who was in the complex called me. It was like, Chris, there's a complex attack going on. I'm not armed, I'm laying low in my office. You got to come down here. So I'm on my way. I'm laying low in my office. You got to come down here. So I'm on my way.

I didn't know where it was. I'd never been there before. Put it in my satin I've went and responded. Now, from what I understand, you were told to stand down and not enter. No, that's not true. No. I didn't know. I just The difference is I didn't have an authority So no one had taught me to go and no one taught me not to go Did you feel compelled to go? Yeah, yeah, did anybody go with you? Not initially

But that's again, we're going into this gray area now with what I can say, can't say, but the bottom line is I turned up with a view to doing something else and people were being murdered and I heard it. I heard a woman, I had donefire grenades going off. I asked and I assumed that was people dealing with the terrorists and I was like, hey, special forces in there, police in there, in a security guard, no one's there, no one's here, no one's in there. I've run out of that same time, I heard a woman scream and then I heard gunfire and I cut the scream off and I realised that woman had just been murdered or someone just been shot and I was at right, I'm going in.

And then the rest is history and not really up for discussion at this point. Can I ask you a question? You can ask me and I'll just maybe say, if I can't comment, I won't comment. I'll say no comment. Did you engage anybody when you entered the building? Like, did you personally save anybody from that building? I think this video evidence of someone who looks like me doing stuff like that.

How many people did that individual that looks like you save? Allegedly people say 700 That's 700 that's what people have said that I'm responsible for saving that day And I kind of I don't think I'm responsible for saving that day. I don't think I'm going into any legal area here. I mean, from the view of the M.O.D., they might be like, it's not sharpening their lives right now for what I've said, not said. But I went in alone, but then it became a team effort

with some remarkable individuals. Kenyans? Yes, yes. How uncomfortable are you right now? Pretty uncomfortable. So... Is there anything you want me to ask you? No, I mean, we can just talk about, again, I think the whole incident, people can see, and the only thing that I can add to the incident is like things that I

did inside there and things that happened. And I can, and people have got good imagination so that you can imagine what happened inside there. So I don't need to, I don't need to upset people and break any kind of rules. But, um, yeah, that incident happened and then I finished the next day and I was there throughout. Um, and I'm just not going to say about what I did. Exactly. People can probably work it out. Um, but it was the most remarkable day of my life. And I've done, I've done close to a thousand doorkicking missions and There's nothing was ever like that day nothing and we talk people talk about flow state and Whether they'd be training. I still do CQB today and you still enter that flow state when you cross a threshold

Whatever that being whether be skydiving whether be a CQB whether be some sort event. There's, you know, when you get dialed in and you, you'd like, like, it's on. That day is, I unlocked some sort of superpower on that day. When I crossed that threshold, whatever that point was, it felt like I could say further, I could hear things, I could move faster, I was stronger, my mental agility. I really unlocked this like floor state, which was like I'd have similar incidents before my military career, but on that day, if you could bottle that, I'd keep meaning to talk to Red Bull. I've been contacted with Red Bull about floor I am a'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i'r ymdwch i' Then that's something to... That would change it as a warrior. You could do remarkable things, or sports, or an athlete, or whatever.

But when that... I thought I tapped into a true floor state before that, but once that day, it was like, yeah, that's what it's like to be on fire, to be... When they say, dialed in, yeah, I was working hard. What ended it? What ended the incident? When did you know it was finished? I suppose when all threats neutralized. So how long did that take? Authorised.

How long did that take? That was the whole incident ended the following morning. It was about 18 hours. Yeah, I think from suicide detonation to building claims secure was about 18 hours. And then I went home for a couple of, well, I didn't go home actually, but I did some bits and pieces and then eventually I went home for a cup of tea. What, what did you do after, after the dust had settled, after the last threat was neutralized? I can't be talking about, well, you know, again, that's still, that's still in the in the theory of what happened that day. Again, I don't know how

was your emotional. I was a brother buzzing. And then there's something happened afterwards and I'm not going to talk about things happening. And I go back home. So get home in the afternoon. And let's just talk about your emotions. Yeah, I'm asking about actions on a jacks of unobjective. Yeah, no, I'm just asking about what's going on up here. I'm like, how are you processing? But yeah, I'm still like zero laser, like laser focused sort of on high. And a friend of mine, the Padre came out to say me a few days later and he said you could feel it, you could feel it around you, you could feel this buzz off you still, days after the event and you were like, yeah, you could feel this energy coming off you. And I didn't sleep well, days afterwards I was still body's just processing, still running

on a adrenaline. And then the thing we're feeling is like dialed in and then when I went home, went to the house and my house and had a shower, put a key core on, which is like a so so so wrong. When you say home, are you talking UK or are you talking talking? talking Kenya, I was living. And make a cup of tea, turn on the TV. I'm on the sky news, put on a put at the my iTunes on shuffle, in excess starts playing a song that I had. I'm a big fan of an in excess, but never heard this song is called searching. And like lyrics, I am searching, I am not alone

and stuff like that. And I'm just like, that's when it hits me. That's when I'm like, I as well, and I'm like, what just happened? What just happened? Like it hadn't really sunk in. And then for a few days after, I kept on bursting into tears, like burst now crying.

And it wasn't anything, it wasn't things that were triggering me. I didn't, and I asked a doctor about this, I said, doctor, I'm like, I keep on bursting into tears, I said, but the strange thing is, I'm not being triggered, I'm not like hearing something or seeing something in its trigger, I feel fine, I feel absolutely fine. And then all of a sudden, without being at a control, I'm like, look, like, start crying. I said, what the hell's going on? Cause I feel fine. And he's like, it's in him.

He, this doctor, it was like, it's a adrenaline dump. He goes, you just, you just pumped all this in adrenaline, he'd been through a traumatic experience. And this is like, this is like a release thing. And that was a string thing. It wasn't like, say it wasn't triggered. I didn't hear a sad song or I didn't see something. It was just like driving along and all of a sudden,

like, what's this come from? It's like a kind of diarrhea for crying. It was just like, oh, no, I can't stop it. And then I just like, start crying. And eventually it stopped. That was an interesting thing that I've never experienced before. What was the thought process going through your head when you had noticed that you were on all of the news channels

and that somebody had captured you entering them? Yeah, and it didn't really sink in very well. It was just like... And some ways it still hasn't? You're in a trance. Yeah. And like in some ways I still still feel that way That did did it really happen. I don't know

Yeah, we did obviously, but I do do know do you keep in touch with anybody that was in that building? Yes, who's a merely so the American American lady who is in her in the in a room there She wrote the book terrorist attack girl in the inner room there. She wrote the book, Tarris Tattagall. And I keep in touch with some other people connected to the incident. What's it like to hear from the woman that wrote that book? I mean, I love nearly a bit. And her book is amazing and her book is amazing. Taras, the attack girl, again, not a shameless drop on whatever you call it. Plug, her book is really good. She suffered immensely after that incident, PTSD. And she's one of the most remarkable human beings

I've ever met. Super intelligent, super morbid, super like brilliant. And she dealt with a PTSD, but not only dealt with it, then said, how do I help other people with PTSD in the others? And she's, her book's really interesting, really well written to fascinating read. Do you guys discuss the incident often together? Not often, but when I first met her, I met her in DC in end of 2019.

And yeah, we just discuss things. And for her was to put, like, because she heard things that were going on and I said, that's because at that point, I would have been doing this, a'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweith Um, really well with the PTSD, but I like help fill in some gaps and bits and pieces of what, what, what was happening that day that she hadn't been told or, or she didn't know. How did it feel when you saw her for the first time? Yeah, it was emotional, it was emotional, yeah. Was it for her as well? Yeah, yeah.

What was some of the third things that were said? I don't know, I think she just said, thank you. I can't, I'm not right. But we were talked about. Yeah. But I can't read, I can't tell the story of how I met a husband. That is a remarkable story. I can't tell it, but it's, it's strange how everything's around this incident is old.

But it was a strange way of how a man has put so. Yeah it's hard to dance around this top at that so much that you can't talk about. But wet point did you recall the man that you picked up on the road that day? When did that connection get made? He said, what did he say? Oh yeah, God bless you. You're going to need it today. Is that Chris?

May God bless you many times this day. When did that come back into your head? Were you in the building? Or was this days later? It was always that morning after. Yeah, it came to me. It came to me before I left the complex. How did that feel? Again, it's this again a compared in I've got all this emotion going on or this like buzz

so it was like lost in all that. But when you did feel it yeah or when it did come back into your head. Yeah, what was that about? Again, one of those, did that really happen? Did that, how did that happen? That's just, you know, I'm going to spoon feed you all and say sometimes I think was he an angel? Maybe? Maybe not. Was he delivering a message from God? Yes. Yes he was. And that's all I've got to say is, it's not all I've got to say, I've got a lot to say about it, but it's like maybe sometimes God's angels, like God or angels use people, you know, sometimes someone might say something to you and they're like, maybe a stranger,

maybe someone you're loving, like, you know, it's like a message. Mm-hmm. And that was a message. That was a message, that was a message, that moment. You know, whether that guy is a real person, fine, but like I say, his face changed, his voice, like I say, it was quiet, but deafening, that he was delivering a message from God

or from an angel, saying, may God bless you many times this day. Man, that's incredible. That is really incredible. Some people are there going to say, I was just a strange, a coincidental meeting between two strangers. Who gives a shit, what people say. But that's my theory.

It could have been an angel, manifest as a human. What do you think it was? I think it's a human delivering a message. Like, did he know he said it? Maybe, maybe not. It's just, but the whole thing was just using it as a, you're like a moment of possession or... Do you think it was an angel or not? No, I think that's the thing. I think he was a physical human being. But he was delivering a message from an angel. Okay. Then, as in, he was like, what do you call it? What if you want to call it possession?

Or if you want it, but he was at that moment, that wasn't him speaking. Do you feel you were alone in that building? No. Did you feel it when it was happening? Sorry. Did you feel like somebody was with you, like God was with you in that building as it was happening? Yeah. Man.

But again, without talking about the incident in general, one of the, like I've said this at the start of this interview is that I'm super like privileged or blessed that the incident kind of happened. In a purely selfish way that people live their whole lives without, not, without meaning, like not meaning, but the, the do good things, not good things, whatever, and then they die. And we're always trying to make sense of stuff and meaning. And that was the thing for me, up to that point in life,

and my life isn't over yet, but that made sense of everything that had bad, that had happened to me, up to that point in life, and my life isn't over yet, but that made sense of everything that had bad that had happened to me, whether it be create moments where I thought I should have done better in my career and thought it was unjust or something happened or I didn't get sense somewhere, I didn't do something, I didn't pick for a certain team or whatever. All that made sense. All of it was like, thank you.

And every night I pray, I pray about, I thank God for all the bad things that happened to me, for all the things that at the time I thought were unjust or unfair. Because now I realized, now I realize that they had to happen to put me there that day. Yeah. And I asked to see the signs now, like, you know, when things are going really bad, because it's very hard to do. And again, it's like, and everyone knows you want people to say things happen for a reason. It's really a patronizing thing to say, but they kind of do happen for a reason. Mm-hmm.

And I give a presentation to the officer academy, Sandhurst. I did a large brief, but first time I did the presentation about Kenya, I did the, like, I've got a cartoon which all the wounded students go to and they do rehab and then once they're fixed to go back into training. And I give them a presentation at the end of it,

onto this line about, you know, everything that happened, that was bad. Happened to me, to put me there. And I said, right now, you guys in this room are kind of like, don't feel good because you're looking out the window and you're injured and you see guys who you were, girls and guys who you were in training with

and now graduating and you're still stuck here and they're going to be officers in the army. I said, but just remember this, right now in this audience, there may be the Chief of General Staff, the Head of the Armed Forces, there could be the Commander of the SES, there could be the Director of Special Forces sat in this audience right now, and the only reason why that's going to happen is because you were injured now. So remember that in the future when you're the head of the army. That sort of hit home somewhere else. Yeah. Where did you go after the incident? After you loved Kenya. Where did you go? To go back to you? Back to UK, eventually.

How were you received? It was amazing. It was amazing. It still is today. My peers, everyone was like, and this is the odd thing you know, people, if you don't know in the military normally, even if you do something good,

even jokingly, they'll give you a bad time. They'll be like, oh, I can't believe you're aware and I'm on a jeans, are you doing this? No, this was strange. This was like, everyone was like, even people who are respect for this guy said, I didn't see I too I with you in the past, you know, I don't want to see my friends,

but I'm proud to know you. And that was to me, was like, yeah, that took, that took balls to say that. The guy who said that was a good guy was on selection with, I respect, was like, yeah, that took balls to say that. The guy who said that was a good guy was on selection with, I respect that. Say, yeah, I wasn't your friend. I didn't really like you. But I'm proud that I know you. And people sit still for the stage, stopping cars, getting on, shaking my hand.

And the oddest thing was the old God, guys who were in the SES and the Aes before the Aes in the 90s. And I thought they'd be critical. And not only the positive about you're great and positive for the SES, what you did is is... Like, is the epitome of what the SES is supposed to be about. They're saying that, and I'm like... And then they're writing in about social media. a pit of me of what the SES is supposed to be about. They're saying that and I'm like, and then I'll be,

and then they're writing in about social media. Yeah, my daughter, my son, follows you on social media and it's great what you do. We're really proud of you. Just keep doing it, keep being a good ambassador for the regimen. So that's always good. And the thing with the book, the book one man in I wrote it, they originally told me I could write a book, then I changed.

I tried to clear it. I, it didn't get released. I took it to call, then I changed. I tried to clear it. I didn't get released. I took it to call, lost that. I'm trying to appeal that. The bottom line is highly unlikely that anyone's going to read one man in any time soon. But even if I lose the appeal, people change, policies change, positions change. People don't realize what's happening, so we have to go into that. They don't realize that it's in court. Yeah, it's been a court in Finland.

So I wrote a book called One Man in. I did ask before I retired, could I write a book about the incident? And they said, yes, work with disclosure. I work with disclosure, and then there was a change of mind somewhere along the line and then they said I couldn't. I then tried to make redactions. They weren't interested whatsoever. And then, so I took it for a judicial review, lost a judicial review, and now I'm appealing the judicial

review, it's highly unlikely that I'm going to win any appeal. Why do you think they're trying to suppress the story? I can't. There's a public here, like ruling out there, they can read it. It's the... What I'll say about the incident is I've just said about my peers and members of the ACS and public. Got nothing but support for me. But in my opinion, there's a lot of people, the establishment, did not like what I did that day. They did not like what I did.

And it's maybe, is it personal towards Chris Craighead? Maybe? Maybe not. But it's definitely personal to what Chris Craighead represents, which is one man, not showing no compromise, standing up to evil, taking on evil head on without permission and putting everything on the line. And that's the nature of special forces operations I thought was heist, it's a heist day game. I didn't just risk my life.

Because if that had been a failure, I would have been the scapegoat. So I risked my physical life and my life in general. I risked everything. I didn't want anything for it. People were... People were admitted, no one was doing anything, so I did something. And people don't like that.

And here's the thing. So from a good example is a senior member of the British military. I've said, Christian Craighead is a bad example to young soldiers because his mutiny or attitude yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy. Mae'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch ywch yw'r cyflwy yn ymwch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch y I'm not going to pinpoint the exact person who said that because the five people had told me, they said three people said one person and two people said another. But there was a similar job, so it was just a mix-up of abbreviations. But yeah, senior member of the British military, that's what that's the his view. I've also heard of people in the foreign office saying, oh Chris Chris Craig had, he shouldn't have done that thing in Kenya. There's lots of people in the foreign office who completely

really support me, support me in a big way. But there's also members, senior members of the foreign office and he shouldn't have done that. He could have, he could have messed everything up. How's that? How could you have messed up? Yeah, because if I'd filled it would have been, potentially they could have said, well, it's that? How could you have messed everything up? Yeah, because if I'd failed, it would have been, potentially, they could have said, well, it's all filled because of that, man. So I would have been the scapegoat, and it would have looked bad for everyone else.

But that's it. And these people, like these generals and these politicians and these other people who've never said, no one, no one's took me and said, thanks for what you did. No one British, high ranking official. No one British, high ranking official. Now one British high ranking official. I've got a nice level of government official straight after the incident and its phone call, but he got his fingers wrapped for that. He's no longer a minister, or he is a minister, but he's not in parliament or whatever that he's not.

You save 700 people a day and they're treating you like you need to be punished. And it was the, and what I want to say to people is, the last time I fucking checked, the motto of two two SES is, who dares wins? Not who asks for permission wins. People need to remember that. But yeah. But then, President Trump, I got to have them extra-provaged to meet the President in the United

States of America. You got to be- this is after the incident? Yeah. How long after? The media is crumbling and it's crumbling extremely fast by the day. Why? Because everybody knows they're hiding something. People are beginning to realize they have been lied to for years and years. Everywhere you look, it's lies. Even the institutions that we all thought that we could trust are turning out to be liars. But now we know. So what do we do?

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Yeah. Why were you here? So, so before we go into the meeting, the president of the United States of America, there's a reason why I said the president of the United States of America is to everyone watching this. Can we just leave these like the personal like this was President Trump. It doesn't matter that it was President Trump,

it was the President of the United States of America. I was a guy, a young boy who was dealt a hand in life destined to fill feel born in a council house, single parent at that time, in a poor area with no particularly good skill set. Yet, 43 years later, I'm in the White House. This is a good story. It's not a political message. It's my life story. It's a story of my life of me meeting the president, so now we're going to continue just for anyone who's going to get triggered. So yeah, I was going to, I was in the United States of brief to brief a military unit about what I did in Africa in Kenya, and a friend of mine a friend of her friend was like speaking to the Secret Service.

Secret Service was super keen to talk to me, because they wanted to know about hotels and lessons that I learned and things that they could use. So they said, could you, on your way to do this presentation, could you come and just give us some of our team leaders and some of our senior members want to talk to you and ask you some questions about the incident? I said, yeah, absolutely. And then about not long about a week or two before I'm supposed to go there, get a phone

call from the guy who's hosting me. And he said, have you ever been to the White House? And like, no, he goes, well, bring a suit. Because once you talk to our guys, we'd love to take you to the White House and give you a tour of the White House. I'm sure you're around. I'm like, oh, it's really nice. Look forward to it.

That's that. So the day comes, I'm speaking to the Secret Service and then we get changed. Meanwhile, in the White House, in the West Wing, Sheila Craighead is the director of photography. And she's got a finger on the pole. Craighead is the director of photography. And she's got a finger on the pole, she's connected to everyone and she's the mover and she's one of the movers and shakers in the West Wing.

And she knows my story. I didn't know she had a Craighead at that time, but she'd been told by the Secret Service, this guy's coming and did it. So she then speaks to the Vice-President's team Ym yn ymwch, yw'r gwybod yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch ynd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn ffordd yn f and I'm like, all right, you've got to go and see the vice president. So I'm like, okay, I haven't got my phone, so I can't ask for permission, not that I would anyway, but so I then going meet my pens, see him, have a quick chat, and then carry on with the two of the White House. My pens, I believe, mentioned to the National Security Advisor and bastard Robert O'Brien, and says, hey, that guy Chris Craighead is in the White House.

And the NSA is like, I definitely want to speak to him. So the Secret Service got a phone call again. Got to bring him back into the West Wing and bastard O'Brien wants to speak to him. So then they sent me into Ambassador O, what a great guy. Super bright, but the good thing, the great thing about ambassador Robert or Brian is not an easy bright, but he's super pleasant as well. So it's again laser, I keep on saying laser focus, laser focus, you lose as a national security advisor should do. You was talking to me a'r ffwyr i'r ffwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysgwyr i'r ysg someone like that in the White House and the busy people. And then he's like, he's talking and he's like, have you spoke to Porters yet?

And I'm like, that's the president of the United States. And I'm like, no, he goes, and well, I know he wants to chat to you. I like, let's go. And I'm like, it's a whirlwind. It's this is like a whirlwind. So he stands up, come on, let's go. I'll through the secret service like,

our Chris this way. And he's like, look, I'm basing bright, no, no, no, we're just going to see you here at Portus and they're like, all right, this is getting big. So then we move through, past the receptionist, and then they say, just wait in here.

So I'm in this room and they say, just wait here and they go into another door. And I can hear voices inside. So inside now, there would be, there's basically that room is the president's private study. And I'm in this room, just kicking my heels by myself. And as I said to you last night, I think it's, I've got the dubious one of being

the only person who's been in the Oval Office, who didn't know he was in the awful office. So, some in the awful office and don't realize him in the awful office by myself. The door, but say you some talking and stuff. And then there is, and then I'm walking and I'm at my president, Trump. And, uh,

I mean, um, looks at me, walks over, put his hand out, and the first thing he says to me is, thank you for saving American lives. Is that the first person that thanked you for me high ranking government position? Uh, yes. Well, no. In person, yes. from a high ranking government position. Yes.

Well, no. In person, yes. Immediately after the incident, there was a government minister from UK sent me to form the open Samuel letter. That was it. Nobody from your own country. No, personally came up to you. People from the army, people from

what you did. People from the army, people from, like, members of the military, members of any of the diplomat Kenya did, but no one outside that, no one ever has since either. Wow. But President Trump, he was, thank you for saving American lives. Which, if you don't, you can, we, and we chatted about a lot of other stuff. But if you think, you know, if you just park all your opinion or whatever, think about that, I went into that private study. There was no media there. The British government didn't know about it. So in theory there's absolutely no gain whatsoever for the president. No gain at all. But he took time out to thank me for saving Americans. Something to think about, something to acknowledge, I'd say.

Yeah, and then we left, and then I got shown the round of the Oval Office by Ambassador O'Brien and things, and then that was that. It was a strange, strange days, I'll say there. It was a strange, strange days, I'll say there. Wasn't very well received from the British government. They found out about it. Yeah, I, I, I, um, so I give a president Trump a coin, a challenge coin, and I got a Trump, a president, it's coin. So I was calling the guys up saying,

hey, I just said, I can't believe this, I met the President yesterday and give him a coin and they're like, oh, that's awesome. And then someone said if he told the commanding officer, I went, no, I probably should do. And that's why I thought, and I told them, basically, long story short, I told them in all hell, broad glues. The big thing, I'm not giving them a free pass, but from a foreign office point of view

it's a huge breach of protocol. My argument is I didn't have any seeing it and I'm certainly not going to say hey the president wants to see you and you go now I've got to get a permission first. There's a bit of a pattern forming here, but yeah, I'm not gonna say so I always have to go with the floor, but apparently they're still not happy about it today. And you know, I'm sure there'll be some backlash from what I'm seeing this, that I mean.

So, who was upset? The foreign office and then, and I think the, I think it's the whole big. The foreign office is upset that the president of the United States, thanks to you. It's because I broke it. It's like the breach, the breach of protocol. It's like what we said, people don't like successful things. Certain offices of the time of that command in my unit didn't like it.

Maybe because they got shit from the foreign office, who knows? They're not there anymore. But, um, yeah, so so that was that was it. And then what I'd be pulled on. What's that conversation like? Yeah. Hey, you just saved 700 people and Kenya from being murdered. And the president of the United States just said thank you for saving American lives. How do you turn that into a negative? But apparently, just so you know, is that what they think about, is that what they think about all Americans? This is the statement I make.

And if anyone is watching, like, like, I'm not going to obviously see who said it. But this was said to me over the phone when I was in America was you've undermined the SIS, the army, the government, and the country. So I can't even imagine the amount of rage. But I'm faster. But I'm going to reiterate something.

I have got no issue with my old unit, the SES. I'm super proud to be there. But I have got issues with elements of the government, the MOD and previous and some yn ymwch i'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio I'm back in London, so I'm back in London. I'm still living in Hariford. It's Christmas time. And this is kind of, I think, the final straw for where Chris Creeke had sits in the British Army. But, like, say, I'm not bitter or anything. It's just, this is a good story.

So I'm in London. Get a phone call with hell number, I think it's work. This is the special assistant to the US ambassador to UK. So I answer the call and he's like, hey, hey Chris, this is Woody Johnson. I've just been speaking to Portus about you. He says you're a good stand up guy. I'd love to, I'd love to meet you for coffee. Or you, I know you're in London.

So do you want to come, do you want to come around for a coffee? Like now, I'll hold all my meetings. I'm like, yes, yes, Ambassador, I'm on my way. So I was like, okay. So then when back to the shop, I just walked out of and put my shopping behind, and you couldn't do me a favor,

I couldn't leave these here, I've got to do something. So I'm like, yeah, so get an taxi. Fat like being in a movie, I'll get an taxi, take me to the US Embassy. And then I go to the, so we go to the, go to the embassy, people are waiting for me straight up to the ambassador office and then there's ambassador Buddy Johnson. He's like, hey, great to meet you. So we then have a chat, have a cup of coffee, great guy, really

interesting, it's things to say, asking me questions. It was fun. I'm now about to leave and he says, hey, I've got something to ask you. Well, okay. Because I'm having drinks from my house tonight. I would love you to come around. And I'm like, I'm like, yeah, Mr. Blast,

I'm just in town doing some shopping, this I'm wearing, I'm wearing jeans, a turtle mex wear and a peaco. So I looked like an assassin. So I looked like an ugly thing. And I'm like, this is the only clothes I've got. And he goes, no, it's my part, you just come. People just be wearing suits anyway.

So just come around and it's my part. I'm like, well I was, when I saw, I said, to be honest, Mr. Ambassador, when I saw President Trump, I got in a lot of hot water for this, so it's kind of going to happen. Again, if I do it, it went, sort it out, whatever you need my assistant to do, we'll make it happen. And so I'm like, okay, it then says, on there's one more thing. Hi.

I'd love for you to, usually, as the US representative, I say something to all my, to all the people here. I'd love for you to say something on behalf of Great Britain. And I'm like, oh, so can you put together with my assistant a three to five minute presentation on what you did, why you did it,

and what the special relationship means to you? I'm like, okay. So it's like, so then iPhone work, speak to whoever, and they're like, yeah, you got to speak to the commander. Commander's like, yeah, he actually says, yeah, who does wins? Go do it. Fine. So then, speak to them, it's all set. So I'm now feel a bit better

that at least my unit all this time. And then, so then I go and get my shopping. This is about full 30 in the afternoon, by the way. And this event is happening at 6.30. So in my mind, I'm putting together this presentation. Just like, so then go to this, in Bell Staff, get my gear, turn up at the ambassadors' residence from my shopping and the let me in.

And then basically then, that's when all the guests are turning up, I'm stood next to the ambassador and he's beautiful wife, dressed like a nurse. I must have thought I'm some CIA hitman or something. He's like, he's CIA muscle or something. But then there was lots of powerful people, including government ministers and such. Obviously, nothing's obvious, but I won't see any names on who was there. But when I looked at the gas list, I was like that. OK, yeah, feeling pretty uncomfortable now.

So it was the high society. And so then they're all there mingling, I'm sure it's about 152 hundred people. And they said, the ambassador is going to give his bit, you then give your bit, and then kind of if you want, like raise your glass and take your drink and stuff like that. So he's doing his talk and I'm like going through my presentation, it's like the matrix going on inside my mind

and going, oh, I'm gonna say this, that's all, what's that? So that hands me a mic, but I didn't know it was gonna be over the mic, but then I go into my presentation. And it's going well. You know, when you're giving this talk and you think this is, I'm on fire, I'm good.

And that, and it, to me, you can see people responding and stuff, it was good. So then I finish, and at the end, I'm like messing around with the mic to try and put the mic down, grab my drink. Everyone starts clapping and applauding me. I'm like, God, I'm supposed to do a drink. I don't know where it came from,

but it was like spur of the moment. I've got quite a loud voice. Oh, well, I've got it. So I've probably drank and I went, ladies and gentlemen, everyone's like, stop the wind. God save the queen and God bless America. That's awesome. That's awesome. And then Vasite Johnson then used some decidedly undiplomatic language. He went, that's awesome. That's awesome. And then Vasite Johnson then used some decidedly undiplomatic language he went, that's brilliant. How was that received? It was earning. There was both there. I didn't hear anything first hand.

When I told the commander of my unit, he seemed to be pleased and things, but from insiders in the headquarters, they were saying that the normal point was who did his he think he is. And then a friend of mine who was working as he apparently said, well, what do you think he was going to do? Tell me he wasn't going to do it. But it was, I'm quite, I'm glad it happened, but I think it was the straw that brought the camels back. And then like I said, there was, so it was the straw that brought the camels back.

And then, like I said, that was a point in my life when I was a few months after that. I felt like I wasn't going to be in a position to give anything back to the army and my unit. So I was like, I asked if I could write a book about it, I said, yes, there's some other factors. And I thought, well, now's the time to get out. 28 years, I've had a good one. That's cool.

Yeah, and that's when I got out. Man, I, um, Oh, I'm sorry, your country is not giving you the credit that you deserve. That is... What a shame. I mean, there's lots of people who support me and I'm really thankful for that. So, you know, I should... That's why I try to...

I'm concentrating on... I'm not even better. You know, I should, that's why I try, I'm concentrating on, I'm not, I'm not even bitter. You know, I said it, I'm not really bitter towards a government. It's just more like, I expect nothing less. Yeah. So I'm not, I'm not even that upset. It's just like, yeah. Because I've seen it happen so many times

with other things, I'm like, it doesn't surprise me. But the main thing is that so many people do support me. And that's that's something. It's not as if I did that and everyone hated me. Then it's a different thing or the fact that matters that people in the army, people there will be sure there's tons of people in the foreign office and the government who who really like what I did. But there is certainly a must be a good chunk somewhere that really do not liked what I did. But there is certainly a must be a good chunk somewhere that really do not like what I did. And what I stand for. Wouldn't it be nice? Wouldn't it be nice if more people were like you and stood up for what was right in that office? Well, Do you know like people need to, like cowardice is everywhere.

And like brave, braveery and whatever aspect goes a long way, it doesn't have to be something grand like to do, do, do say day two incident at 14 riverside drive. It can just be seeing it could be voicing your opinion when someone's bad mouth and someone else. Yeah. Just stepping standing on the saying, actually, I think you're out of line. He's a good guy. So just keeping quiet. Be it that line of like no decision is always his decision. So and and it's the same thing of like people saying, Oh, well, I would have done this or I would have done it. If I'd been there, I would have done that. Or

if I would, would you? Yeah. I don't think you would. Would you know, when people say, Oh, I would have, if I was in a valley, I would have done this. You went there. So maybe you should just hold your mouth. Yes, there's some people here, I think, going to stand before God for what the decisions they made that day. But there's other people who are just following orders. And if someone had called me on in Kenya and said, do not, whatever you do, do not go in there, there's a probable chance I'll probably wouldn't have went in because I'm in the military. Maybe I would have ignored it, but I probably wouldn't have. But he's the thing, last year,

it might be in the year before, though all the years nowadays seem to roll into one. I stopped a girl from being kidnapped. You stopped a girl from being kidnapped, where? Cause no one in her effort, at half past six in the evening, a girl's trying to get bundled into a car. And no one's stopping.

No everyone's walking past. And I'm like, so I'm walking down the road. I can hear this girl's going, oh, oh, oh, oh. I'm like, look at the cross. Yeah, I'm like, about a hundred years from the other side of the road.

And I'm looking across. She's outside a pub, like a busy public house. 100 years from on the other side of the road, and I'm looking across. She's outside a pub, like a busy public house. So, so, straight away in my thought, I'm thinking, well, she's probably drunk, and they're probably just trying to go in the car, and it's not like it, it's just a reluctant, you gotta go home, oh, I'm all right.

So, I thought I'd give the benefit. People are walking past what people are driving to help. As I close, I say there's two people trying to order into a car. They're trying to get her into a car and she's like pushing back off it and like, God, I either sign the train, but she keeps saying, help, help.

As I get kind of level with her, she then changes something. It was like, somebody please help me, but it was the tone, the frequency. That, that sort of got me. And I was like, and then as I level with me, there was a woman with two kids. And she was like, why is no one helping?

And I went, have you seen what's gone on there? Where have you seen what's going on? She went, no, but no one's helping. No one's doing anything. And she had two young boys. And I'm like, or two young children and I was like, okay, call the police. I was doing me a favor, call the police. So I start walking across the road quite a large, like, wide road and I start walking towards the car. I then break into like a canter and like look, look, look, look, and the guy gets up, the driver gets up the car, aggressively gets up the car and he's

like looking, he like gets out and I'm like, and I'm doing this run towards them like this canter and I put my arms out to the side like this and I don't say anything vocally but I can, I am seeing something with our words and I'm what I'm seeing to him is but he I Don't I don't want any trouble, but I'm about to fuck you up if you want And he ready registers that Because he's like any child's oh she always made money she always made money and Get in the car and he like shout at the two and they're the two one of them wax her in the head to get the car and drive speed off And like to the woman are you all right? You're right. You're right. You want to leave me alone. And she likes to stag us all, stag us away. At the same time,

the police fan is coming down, not responding to this call. And I wave them down. And there's a female police officers inside. And I said, Hey, just so you know, someone should try to be kidnapped. And then this woman with the kids runs up behind me and says, this man's a hero, this man's a hero. And I like, and I said, yeah, and I said, and I give them like an update and she takes notes. And then that's the last of her to it. So, man, so I don't know what happened,

but I don't know whether the police followed up and didn't follow up with me. I don't know if it's ongoing, I don't know what other, but the more of this story is, I, even if you do something is, I didn't do anything. The only thing I did, I didn't even open my mouth, I just walked across the road and confronted someone with nonverbal communication. You made yourself available. And that was enough to potentially save someone's life. Because who knows

what they're going to do to it? The bundling of 20-something woman into a car. Nothing good was going to happen there. If they're willing to use physical force to get someone in the car, they're not going to take away and just have a chat with them, make up their money. They're going to do shit. You know that. And if you think otherwise, you're living in a different planet. Yeah. But all I did was, all I did was something and how small it is, something that's enough to make a big change. Yeah.

And people, people still, there's this decision paralysis. There's lots of people I think now, if you had a group of guys, a group of people, it doesn't matter what they do. You tell them to go and run into a burning building, save people, most people will do that, if you tell them to, if you order them to. Where at this state and society, now where people are scared, but they're not scared of physical damage or death.

They're scared of the consequences of their action and it's causing this decision paralysis, where people don't want to be the one to make the call. And whilst they're doing that, people are dying, because every second counts. I'm glad you brought that up. It is sad. What's happening?

They are... I don't even know who they are, but they are demoralizing society from doing the right thing. And even the little things of someone could collapse. And now where some people would straight away go to work, what's going on? Other people just like, I don't want to get involved in case I get taken to court, because if he dies, I'm like, because I'm giving CPR and he dies, I'm like,

why are you even thinking that? Yeah, should just be wrong, what can I do? When I did what I did that day, I didn't think, right, or I could get, what if this happens? I was just like, I've got to do the right thing. Wrong, I mean, not, or maybe I haven't got permission, I may be a way outside to get permission, maybe I'll do that, I didn't, I just went for it. I'd like to think other people would do that.

Sadly, I think lots of people, the majority, wouldn't do that. Well, there's no videos of anybody else entering that building. People, people did make themselves available. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. There's not very many people that would do it.

Well, it's not sad. And that's the message here I am, send me. Let's go, let's go for it. You're it. Sometimes I've said this before, you know, when the whole, everything's collapsing around you and you could be, you might not be a super duper tier one special forces operator, but you're it. No one else is going to protect your family. No one else is going to do what needs to be done. And you've got to think, I guess I've got to do it. And then who does wins?

Maybe you're going to fill and die and suffer the consequences. But maybe you're going to win and save a lot of lives. That's what people need to think and be aware of. Those of you that have been around SRS for a while know that we take mental health very seriously here. So seriously that in almost every episode you'll find a segment where we discuss how to improve your mental health. And part of improving your mental health is keeping your mind sharp. And part of keeping your mind sharp is given at the fuel that it needs to balance energy, focus, cognition, and just regenerating your brain.

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If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes, and leave the Sean Ryan Show review. We read every review that comes through, and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show. All right, Christian. We're back from the break. We can ease the tension a little bit. We don't have to dance around anything anymore. But I want to get into some of the stuff that you're doing now. So I know you wrote one book, which may or may not ever be released, but I love the children's book that you wrote, The Wrong Wolf.

The messaging in there is fantastic. It's a great story for kids and where did the inspiration for that come from? Well, the story, The Wrong wolf, never lived in my mind. Didn't, never thought about this story as it is. It didn't occupy any space mind, never thought about writing a children's book, full stop, not once. The only thing similar to it,

I was talking to a friend of mine from a similar unit in the US military. And we were talking about the wolves and sheep dogs, how the... And one of the points that we came up with, that sheep dogs don't kill wolves, the scare wolves away. The only thing that can kill a wolf is a wolf. And that's kind of what you could say is what I am, maybe set up to be a criminal or from a bad area. Like life was setting with to be that, but I actually became a sheep dog wolf, like a

wolf turned sheep dog. And I think special operations are full of those sorts of people, something majority of people in there. So that was the only connection in my mind. And so I'm listening to your podcast in the gym when you're talking to Jim Kovizal. That one's gone now. And I'm listening to that in the gym. And I'm working out. And I think you say, oh, we need more sheep dogs. Jim Kovizal chips in and says, we need more converted wolves. That's what we need.

And like a day transmission, that story, the story of the One Wolf just came into my mind. Bang, like the story. And it wasn't, I never, ever thought about writing a children's book, ever, bang, this story just comes in my mind. Not just the story, but the pictures, the whole idea, the whole thing. And it's not just, I do that, it was like, stop me in my tracks. Kind of thing was like, and I just stopped working out, got in the car, got back to where I was living, and started writing down notes like a rough idea. rough idea. Picked up the phone to Matt Klein is a good friend of mine. XUS Army, NYPD, great artist, Fondamup. He'd already published a children's book with his wife. And this is a thing I didn't even think about it. It was just like, oh, I need to do a children's book. So it came to me like weird, it is a weird. And I'm like, dude, I've had this idea for a children's story.

Could you do some pictures? And I was like, I wanna do it. I was like, I feel like I need to do it right now. And he's like, yeah, I'm about to go and hold it back and try and get it all in. How many pictures? And I worked it out and I said, it's gonna be about 30 pictures,

but I'll let you know tomorrow. By the next day, all the pictures in that book, I knew what they were and they've never changed since. So, like, less than 24 hours of having this idea, picture number one, pack of wolves in the mountains, how long have the wolves, that's what I sent to him, picture to, et cetera, et cetera.

So all of it was just, so partly feels like I didn't even write it, it was just given to me, I get it out there. And it's a great story. And I hope when people, people, I thank you to everyone who's pre-ordered it, or who did pre-order it. And I just kind of hope and I think that people are going to buy it out of support of me

and then go, then speak to people who don't know who I am and say, hey, by the way, you might want to buy your kids this book because it's a great message. And it's a good story that lots of people I think can identify with. So it's a metaphorical story. People who know the story of Kenya could say there's elements of the book or from Kenya, maybe. Those are elements of the book that are from my army career, definitely. The elements of the book from are from my army career, definitely. The elements of them from my childhood, yes. But it's not exclusive to me because I think most people will look in that book and they will

be able to put themselves in pages of this book as well. How do you summarize that story? I'll tell you how I summarize it. I thought it was fantastic. It is about a wolf that doesn't belong who tries to fit into a new tribe and has to prove himself. He proves himself by standing up and doing the right thing. Yeah. So there's so many lessons and such a short story in there. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it, it goes over the feeling of not belonging. It goes over the feeling of, of fitting in with a new tribe.

Yeah. Which we discussed a lot of that at the very beginning of this episode, right? Pleasing people trying to fit in with a new tribe. It's your story. Yeah. It's your story standing up for the right thing. It's about, again, a loss cover, a lot.

And I mean, the easy way to put it to really simplify it, it's about a wolf that becomes a sheep dog. But like you said, it's about someone who's different, who knows he's different. Someone who loses, he's only friend or mental. Again, standing up for people doing the right thing, get excluded for one tribe, to then go to another tribe where it still doesn't fit in and they don't value them. But then when bad things happen, he steps up and saves them all, and only then is he accepted. And it's like there's like, like I said, that's not exclusive to me, that's everyone, there's lots of people, whether you work in a Mae'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r

gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r running into a hotel or it can be something as simple as that where you're doing good things for ungrateful people and eventually they'll maybe

see what's for but it's the other message that has been more subtle is like I try to say nothing ever dies nothing Nothing really dies. Not a person, not an idea, not a story. It just goes somewhere else and changes maybe. What else is coming down the line for you? Well, we'll see how the near future goes, but I'm looking to start a YouTube channel, putting out some different content out there, which I think a lot of people will be happy with. Certainly, a lot of people always ask me if I'm going to start a YouTube channel. Do you have a YouTube channel yet?

You just don't put content on it. I would love to direct people to a YouTube channel. Yeah, I haven't done one yet, but I'll let you know. Maybe I'll have one set up before this. If you create one, even if there's not anything in there, let me know. And when we release this, I'll put it in the intro. And I'm sure people jump over there and follow you no matter what. So there's that. And then I'm doing some good future work with Stacato, future work with staccato, sons of liberty and field ethos. Go on. What's field ethos?

Is the hunting journal? Yeah. What will you be doing with them? It's been on the forecast for a long time, but looking to do some content with them, related content, but to do with hunting or similar activities. And they'll be, I'm going to drop a, we're going to start an e-commerce shop. The name to be confirmed of the website shop, but we're going to be releasing official Chris Craig had merchant.

Oh, that's awesome. And collaborations will feature on there and things are up. What are some... So this is gonna be hard for you, but what are some things that you need to be successful? You have a audience of over two million people. Yeah, I just think, what do I need to be successful? What are you looking for?

The world and the world, you never know what's going to come back. I'm open to a lot of things and I think a lot of people don't approach me because the either thing I've got everything tied up or that I'm already signed up. I'm kind of a free spirit so I'm looking for people to, you know, people from whether it be whatever industry say, hey, I want to work with you, then reach out to me through Instagram. Do you hear that everybody? He's a free agent. He's looking for people to make connections. He's looking for people to help him build a business.

And there's a lot of people that watch this show that can help you do that. And I hope they come your way. So, but man, I guess, Christian, I just gotta say, man, it was a real honor to sit across from you today and get some of your story and manage just a great example to our youth, which is becoming a rarity all across the

world. And I just want to say thank you for that, man. You carry yourself very well. You carry a lot of respect. You're a great example. And, um, and I'm just happy you're here. Thanks. Thanks very much. I really am. And, um, before we go, I need three recommendations of who you would like to see on the show. Donald Trump. I think it would be very interesting to get President Trump on here. I think he, I don't know what you were talking about, but goals, I think it'd be interesting from to come on here and yeah, you come up with an unusual, like questions that maybe he doesn't get asked in other places. I would love to be standing.

And I think it is especially relevant if you ask him is his role as commander and chief. And I think that's that would be interesting. Because he's ultimately the top of the chain then. So he would be a good person to have on. Something like that's different. Yeah. I'll try to make that happen. You get anybody else, two more. Yeah, I mean, if you're, I wish you'd asked me this a bit earlier, and I know that I'd have these prep dances. And that's the beauty of it.

You're putting it on the spot. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I always like, it's all horses for courses as this year. I like the more off the tracks sort of stuff, some people like the veterans and the special ops. And I like that's why one of the reasons for seeing Donald Trump is that I get different perspective from the, is the commander in chief or was the commander in chief.

And so like, so like that we could tie in special operations and decision making and signing things off for him, I think it'd be interesting. So, so to think of other people, I mean, I'd love to get Joe Biden, but I don't think he's going to be able to walk up those stairs. In fact, I don't know. Actually, I know he won't be able to walk up those stairs. Are you going to edit that out? Because it'll definitely come for you. I'm sure they're already coming for me.

I know a good person, actually, and I'm shamed, I took me so wrong, Milly Chapin. Who's that? Milly, the girl from the duet. The woman, yeah. There was in the hotel. Yeah. That wrote the book.

Mm-hmm. That you saved. Yeah. Roger that. Roger that. Roger that. We'll reach out. Yeah.

Well, brother, I'll let you off on the third one, unless you wanna keep going. I'm now booking myself, now I'll be driving home going. Ah, I should have said, why can't I say that whole way, what about him, what about him, what about him, what about him, I like, yeah. I think that, yeah.

Well, I think that yeah well I want to say thank you for coming and more importantly Thank you for saving those Americans lives and everybody's lives all 700 of them that day that is a I seriously doubt I will ever sit in front of another human being that can say that they saved 700 lives in one day. So that means a world to me now. And uh, God bless you. Cheers. The Rolling Stone Music Now podcast gets inside the biggest stories with Rolling Stone senior writer Brian Hyatt joined by Bob Harviet from 60 Songs to explain the 90s. There's no freedom rock yet of the 90s. It's coming now from 2010 to 2019 and the top 10 is Nirvana Alison James Pearl Jam.

So the Freedom Rock, the 90s, is the Grunge Mount Rushmore. Rolling Stone music now, wherever you listen.