Shawn Ryan Show - #94 Dom Raso - SEAL Team 6 / DEVGRU Operator

Episode Date: January 29, 2024

Dom Raso is a former SEAL Team Six / DEVGRU Operator whose career spans across twelve years and multiple combat deployments during the Global War on Terror. Raso served in Gold Squadron, an outfit that suffered a staggering loss during an attack on August 6, 2011 when a Chinook CH-47 (call sign: Extortion 17) was shot down by insurgents. This was the most devastating day in SEAL Team Six history, as well as the single largest loss of life for U.S. forces since the war in Afghanistan began in 2001. Raso is well known for his contributions to DEVGRU in the way of research and development and combative techniques. Post his military career, he took those same lessons learned to create his brand Crush Everything / Dynamis Alliance. As CEO, Raso seeks to prepare the next generation by embracing sacrifice and using it as a positive energy to "crush everything" that he does. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://lairdsuperfood.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://shopify.com/shawn https://betterhelp.com/shawn https://ziprecruiter.com/srs https://hvmn.com/shawn https://blackbuffalo.com https://ShawnLikesGold.com | 855-936-GOLD #goldcopartner Dom Raso Links: Crush Everything - https://crusheverything.com IG - https://www.instagram.com/domraso X - https://twitter.com/DomRasoJr Podcast - https://crusheverything.com/podcast Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Rob Gronkowski and last year I missed a FanDuel kick of destiny during the Super Bowl I spent the last year reflecting Meditating hanging out in Himalayan salt caves anything to get the image of that hook kick out of my head So when FanDuel called and asked if I give it another go I jumped at the chance to lace them up for a shot at redemption. What's this? He's going to try again. And this year, I won't miss. The kick of Destiny 2 is here.

And this time, you get to pick if Gronk will make it or miss. Make your free pick now in the FanDuel Sportsbook Gap and watch the FanDuel Kick of Destiny live on Super Bowl Sunday. Make every moment more with FanDuel, North America's number one sportsbook. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 866-531-2600

to speak to an advisor free of charge or go to connexontario.ca. Please play responsible. Welcome back everybody. This week we have a Tier 1 operator. He's a good friend of mine. We served at SEAL Team 2 together briefly and then he moved on to Development Group which is the Navy's Tier 1 Special Operations Unit. This is a story about overcoming loss, finding, keeping faith, being a good dad, and being just an all-around good person. This is a heavy episode. It's one that I've been wanting to have for a very long time, and it took some convincing, but it was well worth the wait. I can promise you that.

Ladies and gentlemen, if you get anything out of these episodes, please head over to Spotify and Apple Podcast. Leave us a review. That really, really helps the show out more than you could imagine. And please like, comment, and subscribe to the YouTube channel. Ladies and gentlemen, once again, this is such a heavy but good and it's just an awesome episode. It brings a lot of good into the world,

which we could all use right now. And without further ado, please welcome my good friend, Mr. Damrazo to the Sean Ryan show. God bless you all. See you next week. Much love. MUSIC Dom Razo, welcome to the show, brother.

It's so good to hear beer, bro. It has been a... Look, I've been wanting to get you on here since I started this podcast four years ago. And so to finally have you here, sitting across from me, man, it just, it means the world to me and it is a real honor. You have been an example of that I've followed for ever since I started my entrepreneur career. And it's just, it is, it's a real honor to have you here. So thank you.

Thanks, brother. Yeah, dude, it's God's timing, you know, and you reached out to me the first time and, you know, I had wanted to come out here. I'd even think we had planned it. It was like, that's gonna be the day and whatever it got bumped off for, but here we are, man.

I mean, it's an honor to be here too, you know, just seeing the influence that you're making in everybody's lives and it's very surreal, you know, in a lot of ways, but it's just awesome to see and, you know, just seeing the influence that you're making in everybody's lives and it's very surreal, you know, in a lot of ways, but it's just awesome to see and, you know, it's great to be here, bro. Well, thank you. Thank you. Let me give you a quick introduction for those of you that don't know who Dom is, but Dom, former Navy SEAL of 12 years, we spent a little bit of time together at SEAL Team 2, not much. We actually never got to deploy together, unfortunately. Then you went on to SEAL Team 6 Development Group, went into Gold Squadron.

Now you are an entrepreneur. You have a few different businesses, Dynamis Alliance, which the motto is Will to Fight, AdaptiveX, which is your gear company. And your newest venture, I believe, is Armor Up, correct? That's our fitness program that we have. So Crush Everything is the overarching of all those. Roger that. Yeah, those are all underneath that,

but that's what happens when you're an entrepreneur, but yeah, that's the majority of them. Amazing careers in entrepreneur as well. A man of very strong faith, a warrior for Christ, amazing careers and entrepreneurs as well. A man of very strong faith, a warrior for Christ, you're a family man, father of five, and a very successful marriage. So you are, like I had mentioned previously,

you're just, you are a great person, man. There are not a lot of people, there are not a lot of positive examples for the youth today. And you are one of those few positive examples that not just the younger generations, all generations, men and women can look to you and you're gonna lead them in the right way.

And that means a lot to me. And I know it means a lot to people. And also, I'd told you this personally before, but just the way you carry yourself both as a family man in your personal life and as a entrepreneur and a warrior for Christ. Dom, you're just, you know, I've never seen you ever waiver on your values, your beliefs, and you, no matter what's thrown at you, no matter what kind of adversity you're facing, no matter

what the money is, no matter any of that stuff that can influence people into going into a darker place. You don't bend a knee. There's not very many people that I can say that about, and you are one of them. I paid attention to you from the beginning. You know, you're branding, you know, as a businessman is outstanding. I took a lot of notes watching you when I was first starting out.

And I just, I owe you a huge thank you, man, because you have been an inspiration to me. So, and to many. That's really awesome. It's humbling to hear and again again very surreal just to be sitting here. One thing that you did say I'd have to correct you on is that I do bende knee and that's to God and that's where a lot of the credit, all of the credit for everything. That's the spirit moving through my life, through all of our lives together, my family.

I mean, everything that you just mentioned, when you sit back and think about it, it's like those are things that God has blessed me with, you know, even through the difficult times and through the things that I jacked up. He still, His mercy and forgiveness was there for me to be able to work through all that. And I really have, I think, the one thing that has really been important to me, and I think that matters the most for all of us, is to seek the truth relentlessly

with everything that we have. Because if we don't, we end up living something that is less than that. And I think that for us, we have a duty and an obligation to do that, and that's part of what's fired me up so much. And I'm just pumped to be here because of you and what you've done and your influence,

and also what it's become of you communicating with people and putting stuff out of me. I know a lot of people that have changed what they do because of you too, And that impact is awesome. And again, we have talents that God has put in front of us. That's for anybody. We all have talents in a different way. And so to put those to use, you're actively doing it.

And it's not fricking easy. It's tough. And we have to work through some of those things every single day. And you've said, you know what? One of the things that I heard recently that I really liked is like, a saint wasn't somebody that just stopped showing up.

They weren't different than everybody else. They just kept getting up again and again and again and said, I'm gonna lean into this. And you get punched in the chin when you do that and it's worth it though. So. Definitely, it's definitely worth it. And I wanna expound on that subject a lot

towards the end of the interview. So, but everybody that comes on the show gets a gift. So, I got you a gift. Thanks brother. So, where are my kids right now? Because they would be crushing these. Ah, so where are my kids right now? Because they would be washing these. I've eaten my fair share of vigilance elite gummy bears.

And I remember when you first released these, I was really stoked for it, because I knew that it was something unique and different that nobody else was thinking of. But my kids love these, they're gonna be stoked. And so is this for the kids too, or is that for me to make my next blade? That is, so I heard a rumor that you developed

your blade from Play-Doh. That's actually true. And so, I don't know where you heard that from, but that's true. I don't know where I heard that from either, but. Yeah, and it might even been this color actually. My kids will have a blast with this. I actually, I really do believe that it was that color, but when I was in I was in there you know I was like how do I convey to Winkler that this is the perfect

grip and so I literally had a piece of play dough. I took it from Dominic, my son, and I was I was manipulating it and I was like well this thing has to be forward and reverse grip so I went forward, reverse, forward, reverse and I sat there for three hours just kind of like tweaking it a little bit, a little bit and I got it exactly where I wanted it, and I let it dry. I let it dry, and then I took a bunch of pictures of it, and I sent that to Wayfarer. Do you have your blade on you? Well, I have the Razerback on me. Yeah, I love the audience, too.

This Razerback was the compact version of the initial blade. The Dynamus blade is the full-size version. That was our, that's like our OG started it all, write a passage. I said, out of all the things that I've done in my career, how do I make the perfect carry slash combat blade? Cause they have to be able to do both. And I wanted to, you know, get the motor memory down. So that was, this is the compact version.

This is the Razorback. Of course, this was tributed and named after Adam Brown to give him a little bit of a tribute, huge impact on my life. That's the Razorback. Those are on your website currently? Yes. Good. I'm going to pick one of those up too.

I think I have the original one and I'd love to grab one of those too, so well I got you a gift. Oh really? I did. I love gifts and so on that note I got you a crush everything gift pack So here I'll just pass all on it's in a really fancy carries. I think we ate her last night. Oh fancy Kerry's steakhouse. I think we ate her last night. Oh man, these are the belts that we were just talking about in here. So those are the belts we were just talking about and I actually got one for your wife. Thank you.

So you know you can load those up and do whatever you need to but hopefully those are useful. These, we just had a long discussion about this on your EDC pocket dump so anybody that is curious, I highly suggest you watch that. It's one of the most informative ones we've done. Here you have here. Hey, notice how to open it. Look at that.

He knows what he's doing. Oh man. So that is the Revere Blade. The Revere Blade. That's the Revere Blade and that would be if our original blade and our razor back had a baby. That's what it would come out like. So it's a full size, concealable combat blade and you've got the IWB Sheet there as well in the waistband sheath. Thank you. That's your brother. So this is don't have to go far to get it now

This is beautiful. Thank you I'm gonna have you sign this of and I'm going to frame it and put it in the studio because it has a Lot of sentimental value to me. Well, so this is the last thing I'll give you, but the most important. And full circle, seeing how far this has traveled along the way, there's a spark of faith in all of us.

And our relationship got reinvigorated when we started talking about our faith. And this has just been a symbol of that. And I can't tell you how many people texted me and called me and told me that you gave Jim Cavizel the rosary. That made a big impact, just even with the small community that I have

of how powerful that was. So I'm taking, again, the one that I have, and I'm giving it to you, this is the Olive Wood. These beads are from Bethlehem. You know that and you know the power of what this is, but I wanted to also give this to you on the show and make sure that this was back to you and you have it, it's important, especially as a weapon.

So here you go brother. I wanted to make sure I gave that back. Thank you, thank you. Yeah. I did not know that these beads were from Bethlehem. They are, the olive wood beads are from Bethlehem. Wow. Yep.

Dead. Thank you man. And so you've got a couple more variations in there that will actually explain the card on it about where it's from, why they're from Bethlehem, and some of the design work that goes into those. Man, thank you, Dom. Of course, Bob. Nobody's getting this one but me.

You say that now. Thank you. There's always a higher calling at times, and that's proven that out. Thank you. Put that right there for now. And thank you for this as well. All right, so we're going to get into the interview. So I'd like to do a full

just a full scope life story on you. Start from childhood, moving into military career, transitioning out what you're doing now, faith, fatherhood, being a family man, spiritual warfare. We have a lot to talk about, Dom. So I'm gonna kick it off with a question. I have a patron on my Patreon that is, he has been waiting for this interview

for a very, very long time. His name's, he goes by Moose. Moose. And so I'm just gonna read his question. Developing the precise mindset required to reach the position of dev group demands a unique mental approach. How challenging did you find it

to adopt that mission-focused, perfectionist attitude into your life post-active duty? The one thing that I left the command with, and I can say this like it happened yesterday, walking out those doors, knowing that I might not ever step foot back into that building where so much of my life was changed. And turning around and looking back at the brick, I said to myself, I said, one thing that I was taught here is that if there's something wrong in the world, or if there's something wrong in the team, or if there's something wrong in the team, or if there's something wrong with a department, or if there's something wrong in period general and a story, it will not change unless I

do something about it. And it's true for every aspect of our life, is that we have to take ownership for the things that we're seeing and that we're identifying that need to be fixed. And if we don't step up and we are not the ones, we should not expect it to change. And I think that that's the major thing that I left with knowing that at every turn, being an entrepreneur, being a father, being a husband, interacting with people in our culture, recognizing the issues politically that we were dealing with,

I was very quickly recognizing that if I don't do something about it, it's not gonna change. And how beautiful is it when we get to do that as a team? How beautiful is it when we get to do that as a city? How beautiful is it when we get to do that as a team? How beautiful is it when we get to do that as a city? How beautiful is it when we get to do that together? That's when the world changes. But it starts with us. And that's one of the biggest things

from a mindset perspective that I walked away with knowing that I was the guy. You are the guy. If you're listening to this and you have something going on in your life, you're the one. You have to do something about it. And when we take action, the world around us

starts to change. And when we don't, nothing changes. And we shouldn't expect a different result. And again, we all know the definition of insanity, right? We keep approaching the same problem again and again and expecting different results. We use the same tactic and we think something's gonna change. We should at least clearly and we think something's going to change.

We should at least clearly understand that it won't unless we change. And so I would say that that's the major thing that applied I used to my advantage walking out those doors. Now it wasn't perfect to begin with at all. That had to grow on me and how that transformed clearly since the day that I looked back at that door until right this very second has been a transformation process in so many different ways. But I'll leave it at that because I'm sure we're going to get into a lot of this stuff.

But the other aspect that I think was probably equally as important and that enhances that idea is that my favorite quote, at least in a combat perspective, was by George Patton, and that's, a good plan executed violently now as better than a perfect plan executed a week from now. So I knew that I couldn't overthink the idea of what was gonna happen. I couldn't overthink walking through the door. I couldn't overthink the project that I had to lead.

I couldn't overthink the trip I had to set up, you just got to get going. And sometimes it literally happens in a second or it happens within a period of hours, but you've got to take action. Because I knew that I would learn more through the action and my screwing up and doing it wrong and not getting it right than I would that if I sat there and tried to make this perfect plan and put it all whiteboarded and making me feel all good, because today, what does everybody do? They overanalyze everything.

Everybody puts themselves in the state of paralysis that don't actually lift a finger. Everybody's looking at their watch, making sure they've got, this is reading the way it's supposed to, instead of actually doing what they know is right, using their heart to know what they know is right. So for me, that quote, I think probably saved my life.

I think that quote probably saved the lives of the guys around me. And really applying that to everything that I did post-military was the same exact result. Go fast now as hard as I possibly can. I'll figure it out on the fly. And I'll end that in saying there's also, I think some cons that come along with that mindset

that I don't wanna miss, and I don't wanna just leave on the table as like, oh, that's gonna be your best quote, go ahead and do it. What happened to me from an entrepreneurial perspective is that I applied that mindset to everything that I had going on, and I was trying to do too much, too fast, too spread thin, and I always equate it to like when you're in a boat,

you know, when you slow down in the boat and the big wave comes and hits the transom and it follows up on you. That's what life did to me because I tried to apply that mindset with no planning. And I was just trying to head first. We're gonna figure it out. We're gonna figure it out.

At some phase line and in some situations, we should take the time to pray through and plan what we wanna do. My wife always reminds me of the scripture that says, you know, you have to count the cost. If we're gonna do something, count the cost. And I think that that's true. And if we apply that mindset along with the violent plan,

we can have a really good outcome and then doing it faithfully. So I would say that is probably the best way I can explain what I took away, how I applied it to my entrepreneurial life all the way up until today. And those are some great life lessons. One, being insured, I think a great way to summarize it

would be you create your own reality, whether you like it or not, you create your own reality. Number two, do one thing, do it extremely well and then move on. And I learned that lesson also as an entrepreneur. And I will say, it was like swimming around in circles. I was doing reality TV stuff on my channel. I had 10 different things going on.

I wasn't really good at any of them. And then one day I finally said, this all I'm doing is this podcast, that is it. I don't know more shiny objects. I'm not going after it. I don't care what it is. And once I adopted that mindset, or adopted that mindset,

things really started falling into place and in a hurry. So, great advice, Dom. I think that that's absolutely true because I was telling you earlier, the book, The 4-Hour Workweek, I mean, I literally read that as I was transitioning out. I would tell you, there's a lot of things that I look back in my life. I'm like, okay I wouldn't change a thing but for the for the purposes of this example. I think I would go back and burn that book Literally lighted on fire Tim Ferriss jacked me all up like because I had this mindset that I was just gonna go delegate

All the things that I was increasing in so as soon as I got good at something Then it was time to pass it off to do more, right? And it was a disease. It's a virus. And I'm not doing what you just explained, and that was become the best at this. Know how to explain it, teach it, live it, do it with your eyes closed before anything changes.

And I think we live in a world where we expect everything to grow and scale, and we want all these things to happen and that's what everybody wants. Everything's driven by analytics and measurements and those are good for some cases. But from the standpoint of reading the four hour work week and not truly taking accountability to that, I spread myself too fast.

And I didn't really appreciate the process of really doing those things well before I passed them off to somebody else. I always just, anybody that joined my team, I'm like, you're just gonna figure this out, right? I really appreciate the process of really doing those things well before I pass them off to somebody else. I always just, anybody that joined my team, I'm like, you're just going to like figure this out, right? So I'm going to give you a little bit of the skill, but then you're going to kind of take it on and do it on your own where I should have done it a little bit more intentionally

than that. So, you know, the, I think I know exactly what you're talking about and, you know, it's important to know, for me, it's important to know, for me, it's important to know every single aspect of my business. If my team, it's great when you can delegate and you got a big team and you really don't know anything. Yeah, it can go great until it doesn't. And then what the hell are you gonna do?

And so it's good to know you should be able to fill every single role in your own business. And my personal opinion, so if somebody leaves, somebody quits, somebody gets hurt, somebody goes on big, whatever happens, you can immediately step in and fill that role in its business as usual. Nobody knows the difference other than you have a little bit less time off your plate. But, um, 1000%.

But, um, well, Dom, let's get into your life story. I want to start at the very beginning. Where did you grow up? So I grew up in New England. I grew up in Rhode Island. And that environment has definitely played a part in my life, you know, being around the water. You know, I grew up around right down the street from the ocean.

So that played a part in really, like, I don't like thinking about the street from the ocean. So that played a part in really, like I don't like thinking about being anywhere without the ocean. So Rhode Island, Ocean State, New England type of feel, a lot of those kind of traditional things that we think of when we think of New England, cold water, guys out there fishing, that's kind of transcended throughout my life as well,

even for my children. But I grew up there and, you know, we had everything from, you know, really good Italian and Portuguese food. I knew a lot of Italian and Portuguese people. That's like how I grew up, you know. Very, very tight family. Very, very kind of like just traditional, you know, feeling, you know, big festivals and feasts all the time. It's part of what I miss in Virginia Beach. You know, you don't get those.

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Good family? Yeah, I was very blessed. I mean, everything I look back on, I mean, I obviously struggled big time when I got into my teenage years. But the majority of my upbringing, I was very, very blessed, you know. My family was great. I was the type of person, kid, child. I, for some reason, got along with everybody in my family, whether it was at the gatherings for Thanksgiving, at my aunt's house, and we always made it a point to gather. That was the beautiful thing that I wanna keep going

and that we're missing today a lot. It's like family's fragment and they don't get that. So I really appreciated the aspect of always coming together, always coming together. In fact, I think they do it so much in some cases in some families and they don't get that. So I really appreciated the aspect of always coming together, always coming together. In fact, I think they do it so much in some cases in some families, they take it for granted. And I always remind people,

I might never take that for granted, it's your family. So, we had a broken home in a sense. I look at now as a blessing. I, it's hard to not think of any of this as a blessing as it put me here talking to you. But my mother and father, they were never married. I remember as young as I can remember, and I would say I was probably four or five.

You know, and all I can remember is I have this visual of just there's multiple cop cars outside. Mom and my dad were just yelling at the top of their lungs together, battling and arguing over me. And so they never were on the same page about that. And I had to show up to court a lot. And I was pitted against my parents in a lot of cases. How old were you when this was going on?

That memory is probably around four or five. And then pretty much from that point until my teens, I had to go back and forth on a lot of that. You know, that memory is probably around four or five. And then pretty much from that point until, you know, my teens, I had to go back and forth on a lot of that. Child support, you know, my mom needing help. My dad, you know, wanting to be with my dad and then having to choose. I mean, one of the hardest things I ever remember

as a child is I have this person in front of me that I have no idea who they are sitting here asking me to choose of which parent I wanted to go with, right? I'm in a courtroom in Providence, my mother's sobbing her eyes out, my dad's standing there at the end of the table, and they're like, which parent are you gonna,

you know, which parent are you gonna go with here, right? Well, they're, I haven't, still to this day, have no idea what the actual issue is, but there they are in court and as a child. And so that developed me earlier on to have a very, very, very adaptable mindset because I knew I had to go back and forth between mom and dad and kind of understand how to make those decisions. A lot of kids are in that position right now.

100%. So I would, how did you choose? Very, very, very emotionally and very drastically. You know, my mother was very tough on me from a standpoint of like, she'd have no problem like smacking me off of a seat if I did something wrong. You know, and she mentally could kind of get to me like my inner core. She was the person yelling at me on the phone while I was in Bud's getting ready to go to Hell Week, motivating me. She had that tenacity. It's like, don't you dare think about quitting. So her mindset at a young age, it really developed like of like this, you know, like I have very like on edge, like so on edge with my mother.

But man, I can't help but to say it's such a blessing today because she hardened me. She prepared me for the world. She prepared me like anybody yells at me now, I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever pal, like, you know, you're not my mom. But to choose, even at this point now, because I went back and forth, but initially I think I had said I'm gonna go with my father, but that didn't necessarily work because of his work schedule, so then it was split

where I had to be with my mom for the week, and then my dad came and got me on the weekends. And so like my dad was the fun guy, right? My mom had to do all the things that were tough. She had to get me to school. She had to make sure I was eating, right? She had had to do all the things that were tough. She had to get me to school. She had to make sure I was eating right. She had to make sure that was getting taken care of. I remember her walking down the street to pick up food from the local church because she had no money. You know what I mean? She couldn't pay for anything.

So she was on welfare for a while. I remember her using food stamps for quite a while. We took the bus everywhere, carried bags of groceries through the street with shopping bags that were cutting off my circulation. I remember all those memories, just walking miles to get back home. But eventually, developed that mindset of like, oh, my dad's the fun guy. He's coming on Fridays, and he would pick me up, he'd get in the car, he'd speed down the road, and we'd hang out for the weekend, and we'd go fishing and doing all these things. So I developed a really good relationship with my father

because he was there. He was picking me up and he was interacting with me as part of my life. And I realized today, what a major blessing that is to have a father that cares for you and how many people out there do not. And how critical that is to have that father figure in your life, which again, I mean,

I could go right to talking about faith right now and why that's critically important. We all have a different journey. But I eventually was split, went to school, and as I started to develop some of my own personal choices and impact and talking to other people, I think eventually we were back in court again. And my mom was just really, really tough and it just got to the point where I wanted to be with my father and so

I was pushing for that. So I was kind of bucking the system with her in pretty much any way that I could and it got really intense. I mean, we were living in an apartment for a while. You know, I remember our apartment life to this day. That's why, you know, when people are's why when people are living in really, really tight quarters, I can very easily relate to that. People yelling at each other down the hall.

Everybody knows everybody's business. And so I kind of wanted to get out of there. I feel like I was really being pressured by my mom in a lot of ways, physically, mentally. And so I eventually sat with my dad and said, how do we do this? And man, to this day, it sucks that it had to be that way. But I talked to my dad and eventually had to call

like whatever those people that you call, right? When things get really tough like that. those people that you call, right? When things get really tough like that. And so, talking to my dad and having to call that person, and then, you know, the biggest thing is like, the reason I'm getting emotional is because like, the look of my mother, when I had to say, you know, I did this, you know,

I'm the one that brought this person here because you're not treating me right, because her love still existed. You know, I did this. You know, I'm the one that brought this person here because you're not treating me right. Because her love still existed. And in a lot of ways, looking back at it, it was tough love, but I didn't necessarily understand that. And maybe it was or it wasn't right. But in the big scheme of things, it really wasn't that big of a deal.

And I just wanted to get out of there because I felt like it was getting so tough to kind of understand things. And again, I don't want to use the word abuse, right? Because parents have to understand that they are responsible. It is their duty to correct their children. And that's not my responsibility to tell somebody else what to do. But at some point when you're a kid, it kind of feels like you're being attacked. It feels like they're going above and beyond. That's the way I felt, and maybe she was.

But bringing that person in between our relationship and having her look at me with like, you did this to me, like you chose not to be with me, it crushed me. But it was a decision I made and eventually stayed with my father. We had a great time together. I was happy with the choice, but still had to deal with that dragging feeling of like I did that to my mom. I did that to my mom. We still maintained a good relationship.

In fact, I think leaving there helped develop our relationship back and strengthen it a little bit. I think maybe I was going with her on some weekends and with my dad during the week. I had switched schools. It's like, I don't even remember staying at one school for more than two or three years. So I was like, I was always adapting to different people

and different things. That's why I feel like today I can just, you can put me in any room, anywhere in the world with anybody. And I'm like, yeah, what are we talking about? Like we're fine. And so that's part of my adaptability story. And then growing up with my father,

you know, really doing more with him, getting involved, watching what he was doing, that helped influence me as well. But that was a big portion of my childhood that I don't think I've ever talked about before. I think that's probably the first time I've ever said that openly about the back and forth with my mom there.

But that situation as a child was so difficult. They have to choose between the two. I know they both cared for me. You know, and there's so many different situations out there that people are in. I think the one thing I wish I would have had was more faith and some more faithful direction. And who knows if that was the case,

they probably wouldn't have gotten in that situation to begin with. So. Where did you, I mean, speaking of faith, I mean, I know your faith is maybe the strongest, I know, you know, right now, but where did that come from? I know, I know, I mean, you mentioned it,

it came in in childhood, who was the influence? Both of my parents were, and to be honest with you, I talk about this with my brother all the time, is that my mom was adamant about putting us in the curriculum for the church, making us go through CCD and raising us in the faith for whatever reason. And even my wife and I talk about it today, because while she wasn't a devout Catholic and she wasn't disciplined in the faith for whatever reason. And even my wife and I talk about it today, because while she wasn't a devout Catholic

and she wasn't disciplined in her faith, it was very, very important to her to continue to push us in that direction. And so we went through the formation as a child to go through CCD, to go through Holy First Communion and to get baptized. And I was actually older when I got baptized. I wanna say I was around eight or nine

when I actually finally got baptized. And so that experience, seeing all my family come together, it did not get handled. And I didn't have anybody with me that really said, do you have any idea how important this is and what you're getting ready to do? And that's why I'm so different today,

because I recognize that. But in the formation of that, my mom knew it was important. And I know there's a purpose for that. Even though she wasn't doing it herself, it was important enough for her children to go through. And so today, looking back on those experiences, I see a lot of the reason that I saw it the way that I did. But that's where it came from at you know, at an early age.

And in New England, and even throughout the country and everybody, I mean, the immigrants coming in from overseas and everybody else having an influence in Catholic faith, it kind of became almost just this check in the box. It's part of what you do. You grow up this way. I mean, I can't tell you, it is in some cases heartbreaking to me to hear a lot of people like, oh yeah, I grew up that way, but, you know, and there's always this but, the culture gave us this but.

And that's exactly how I grew up, you know, and I was talking to you earlier, the 60s, the 70s started to come unravel all that and spread lies throughout our community and our culture and our faith. But ultimately, you know, looking back on it and how it happened, she was one of the ones that pushed me, and she was one of the ones that kept me at least abreast to it.

And while nobody looked me in the eye and said, this is the most important thing that you're ever gonna do in your entire life, at least it was on my heart, like I never outright rejected God. I never said that he doesn't exist and I don't need him because it was there, but it just wasn't taken seriously. Nobody taught me that.

You know, my Godfather, even to this day could probably care less that he's a Godfather. And every time I go to a baptism, I look men right in the eye, even if I don't know, I'm gonna say, do you have any idea what you just did? Do you have any idea the oath that you just took

for that child? And so for my childhood, I didn't have anybody that came up to me and looked me in the eyes and told me that. And I think in a lot of ways, that's what we're missing for our youth. But faith was a part of my upbringing. It was there, it was a breast of it.

I mean, I outright rejected my confirmation. You know, we can go into the whole story of my faith, but you know, I was listening to garbage music. I was listening to the world. I was influenced by my friends and my influence, you know, of people that just didn't care. And all I probably would have needed was somebody that took it seriously to say,

hey, just need you to pay attention, just a little bit more here, because this is everything. And I probably would have done it. But for whatever reason, out of God's graces, He put me through this journey and this path. And so now looking back at my faith, when I outright rejected my confrace, I was like,

no, I'm not ready for this. I don't understand this. That's not for me. And that's where I left. I separated from the church. I separated from the understanding of it. And then I went up and joined the military shortly after that. Let's backtrack just a second.

What does a godparent mean to you? So in the name itself of a godfather, a godmother, you are among the first around that child that is taking an oath in front of God that is saying, I am volunteering my life to raise this child, to be their first teacher, their first guide, and their first protector. And we miss that today. Godfather's been deduced down to the movie, you know? And so to me, we have to get back to the responsibility and the vocation that we've been given under that oath.

And it's definitely something that God put on my heart because I don't let anybody get out of the church without talking to them. Because I don't think that most guys even understand what they're signing up for. And when we are in communion with each other as a family and a godfather truly does that, that might be the person that saves them from a difficult situation in their life or gives them just enough of spark of faith to get through the difficult challenge that they're getting ready to go through.

And I don't until I really started to grow in my church community and the brothers that I have around me, I am sorry to say that I probably couldn't have found somebody that I knew as a godfather that was actually living up to the call of what it actually means. And just like parents at baptism, we are giving our lives to be the first teachers and the first guides. And what we're seeing today out of our faith and people stepping up to say, I'm going to do that, I don't think people are taking it seriously. Yeah.

Obviously, a lot of people are, but the Godfather means exactly that. Godmother, Godfather, you are volunteering to give your life to be a teacher, to that child to raise them in the faith and doing it right. Because they're gonna look to you as that example. They're gonna look to you as that faithful director in their life. And I think we need to continue to redefine

and reawaken what that means for everybody. That's saying, I'm gonna be with this child in the most important part of their life to become priest, prophet, and king, and be able to bring them into the house of God and be accepted and be brought into the communion of the church. Interesting. I never thought of it like that.

I guess I have kind of always considered it to be the parent's replacement. That makes sense. And that could be too. And that is I think when you really deeply dive into the fact that there would be a faithful director in the faith, well, then that's kind of one of those things. It's kind of like why the First Commandment is love your God, love God with all your heart, all your mind and all your strength. Well, if you're doing that job well, well, then it would without thinking about it, you'd like the Godfather clearly would be the replacement.

You know, if they are stepping up the way they're supposed to, that's the first person the children are gonna look to'd be like, the Godfather clearly would be the replacement. You know, if they are stepping up the way they're supposed to, that's the first person that children are gonna look to to be like, help me. You know, my parents aren't here, I need you. Because you've been a faithful guide to me, I've trusted you, you've been there in my baptism all the way up and through my childhood. You're the guy or girl that I'm supposed to confide in

and rely on. So I don't think you're wrong at all, I think you're absolutely right. I just think it's a part of that job. What switching gears here, and we're gonna keep touching on faith because it follows you throughout your entire career as far as I know.

Where did the influence to join the military come from? So my buddy John Devine, which I don't know if you know, Devine canines, he does a lot of good stuff out there. We literally grew up across the street from each other. Not sure if you knew that. I didn't know that. Yeah, we were best friends growing up,

like literally best friends. To this day, we have childhood memories of running around the neighborhood with each other, playing paintball, playing tag, manhunt, all those things. Like that was us. And so we had a beautiful relationship as children to be able to interact at that level. And I remember one day we were walking down the road and he kind of mumbled something

like, oh, there's these guys that are like the tip of the spear that are like super awesome and my dad's friend knows them and he knows a guy that's one of those dudes. And I was kind of like, wait a minute, what are you talking about? You're like, say that again. He's like, yeah, there's like Navy SEAL guys, you know, and that's kind of where it started. But for whatever reason,

that's why I can recall the moment like it was yesterday, because I was like, what did you just say? What is that? I wanna know more about that. And so he kind of explained in whatever child way he would, right? Probably expounding and exaggerating in like ten different areas. And I was hooked from that moment and I wanted to know more. And so he kind of contrived, you know, or put together some kind of ideas about who these guys were.

And I think our next trip was to the library, you know, shortly after that, where they had like two books, you know, in the library on Navy SEALs. It was like, one was like a picture book and one was like the history of Vietnam. It was like very super simple. Now you can't even keep up with them. But it was also that beautiful moment of pulling those books out, like, whoa, this is it. This is what we wanted to find. And, you know, it was like a treasure at the library to be able to find that thing and look through those pictures. I think from that point on, it was a continued formation in our hearts to put pieces together

about why that was important and why we wanted to do that. Manhunt, tactics, survival, that was all kind of natural to us. We would go down the end of the road and surf torture each other, you know, for hours on end. We'd go to the local pool and try to drown each other and tie each other up. I mean, it was the documentary on the Discovery Channel, right, that's the oldest, the old one, the first one, the one where they're mowing down everything

with the 60 in the woods, right, the branches are breaking, you know, and that would just drew me in from the warrior perspective. Now that I look back on it today, there was something in my heart that just needed that to be a part of my life. And I wanted to be at that high level of engagement, knowing that we were going after bad guys and after, you know, good and evil was very clear to me at that point. And so getting rid of what was bad, being the best that you could, made sense. And so in a childlike manner, from that point, we kind of just imitated as much as we could,

as much as we knew how, ultimately until it became reality. And again, that's why I'm always fascinated, and you said it earlier. I forgot what exact quote you used, but God allows us to manifest our thoughts into reality. That's a crazy thing when you really take ownership of that. This is another example of us, God allowing us to manifest our reality. We made a bet with each other. We were sitting on the front porch, we were playing with GI Joes and I looked him in the eye and I was like, I'm going to bet you that I become a seal first.

He's like, all right, deal. We shook on it. It was 50 bucks, 50 bucks. And we had that deal going for so long and I gave him such a hard time because I beat him. And he eventually got in though. And it was an interesting relationship when he didn't make it the first time.

He's got a really interesting story as well, just from the standpoint of like, what he had to do to get there the first time. He's got a really interesting story as well, just from the standpoint of like, what he had to do to get there the second time. And it was really crazy. I mean, he had to beg, borrow, steal, and he did everything in his power to get to it. But that was his determination. He eventually made it.

And we kind of had a little bit of a lull there, because it was like this awkward, you know, like, I love you brother, but what's going on? And I think he was a little bit of a lull there because it was like this awkward, like I love you brother, but what's going on? And I think he was a little bit, just wrapped up in himself about why things happened the way they did. But then eventually when he made it, it was like, boom, we just sparked.

Like, dude, you made it. You fulfilled, here's two best friends growing up across the street from each other and then you made it, I made it and here we are. Were you guys, did you guys, were you in the same class together? We were not in the same class. No.

We didn't have, we never deployed with each other. Okay. We never, we never, I mean, that would have been beautiful, right? There's like one of those things that would have been epic, right? Best friends going to battle, but we didn't actually deploy or do anything together.

So. So did you go, did you go right into the teams? Yes. So when I was in pre boot camp maps, whatever, you know, they put the choices in front of me and I was just like I want the shortest possible school to get to Buds and like all right. Well, it's this Parachute Rear School. I was like, okay, cool go down to Pensacola Did that for I think was like a six to eight weeks school super short and I crushed myself down there You know really putting out making sure I stayed in shape, learning

new methods. I was doing all the weird things, breathing out of my nose the whole time, trying to sprint and all the crazy stuff that we tried to do. Then I went right to Bud's after that. Then that's where that started. That was 2001. When did 9-11 happen? Right. In the Bud's classroom in the first phase 9-11 happen? Right.

In the Buds classroom in the first phase. Do you remember? Yeah. I remember when they came in, they turned the TVs on. I don't know if Eddie talked about it, but that was a surreal moment too. We're literally in Buds. What phase? It was first phase.

I'm trying to think, were we in Hell Week? No, I don't think we were in Hell Week. It might have been like post Hell Week. I can't remember the timing, but it was like right around that time. It was either in or the week after. And they turned the TVs on and it was just like, whoa. We signed up for this before that happened. So that realization of like, this is what we came here to do.

We just got attacked. And now there was this reality that hit. And that's transcended throughout my military career. Like right from that very moment, even though it was serious before, takes on a different reality when you know it's real. You know, it takes on a different feel. That's part of why I'm so intimate with all the gear

and the training that I do because your life depends on it. And so now you know whatever you're getting ready to do in buds, your life depends on it, literally. So don't screw up, don't make a mess up because that's gonna account for when you kick the door down with the guy standing next to you, which at that point was me and Eddie. You know, we went to buds together

or did everything together. Can you, what was said when they flipped the TVs on? You know, I can't remember what exactly was said. I just know that the instructors don't just turn the TV on in the bud's classroom. That's not something you do. So it's like, okay, this is serious first and foremost. It's almost like no words needed to be said. You know, that's kind of how I remember it.

That couldn't, that might not be the case. Maybe somebody said like, look at this, that's going on in the world or you know, we just got hit with another plane. I could make words up. But the truth is I don't remember it it was just this solemn kind of reality, kind of setting in, you remember the Bucks classroom, right? Just sitting there on the desks, everything's quiet, nobody's moving, these two TVs are on,

blasting this, these planes hitting the towers and we're just like, whoa, okay, game on. It's time to work. I mean, it happened early in the it happened, happened early in the morning, you know, not super early in the morning, but it was, what, mid-morning? Yeah. And so, if you do remember, what was the, I mean, what shifted? How did, how did training, it had to have shifted. I wasn't there yet. I was, I had just graduated boot camp, so I don't, I don't have a reference, but I would love to know what the, how the mood shifted from pre-9-11 to 9-11.

I mean, you're in one of the toughest military training programs in the world to be one of the most elite operators in the world to be one of the most elite operators in the world and to be in at that time and to witness that shift. I'm very curious. Yeah. I think it was just the reality and the weight. You kind of get those, the feeling of the classroom was that nothing needed to be said,

but then after the fact, you have your buddies, we're still going through buds. There's still a chance that some guys aren't going to be said. But then after the fact, you know, you have your buddies, we're still going through buds, there's still a chance that, you know, that some guys aren't gonna make it. And there's just this kind of like undertone, almost whispers like, is this really happening? Like, is this, this is going down. And that means that if we just got attacked, then there's a high probability of us having to deploy

immediately when we get to our team. Well, that wasn't the case. So I do think, you know, these phases are so different. First, second, third phase all the way through your training, it's constantly shifting and adapting and no one's the same. So it's hard to kind of contrast a baseline of what the mood would have been and what it is now.

But I definitely think that what was carried throughout the entire thing is the fact that we all knew that we were going to war. So when we did approach a training object, I don't know what Buds would have been like in second phase without knowing we weren't going to war. You know what I'm saying? It was just, that was the reality for us.

So I think that I would probably say, thinking about this in hindsight, our Bud's class was probably where the spark started for a totally different vibe in there. Because pre-Our Class, 236, there wasn't a war going on. And so you were just going through, you wanted to be a seal, it was something that you had the chance to do. But then very stark contrast to that is that boom, 9-11 hits were in the Buds classroom and now everything's different.

So I wouldn't have known what it would have been like without it, but I do sense that throughout that time we just recognized that this is real and that stayed true. When I got to the teams, I was like, all right guys, your first deployment, you're going right to Afghanistan. You got to the team, your first deployment was Afghanistan? Yep, I ended up right in Afghanistan. Right in the 50 cal, right in the first truck. That was my first position ever, 19 years old, sitting up there.

You know, crazy to think about. It is. Really is. It is. I look at 19 year olds now and I'm like, what are you doing? You know what I mean? Seriously, what do you got going on? What's so important that's keeping you away from actually becoming something, becoming a man?

I beg to say that I was barely even a man yet at 19. Still trying to figure it out. I mean, when would I put the mark on myself to say that I was a man, which goes back to ride a passenger and all that other stuff with our faith. But, jeez, maybe when I got to the command. How went, so let's breeze through buds. You get to the team, you show up to Pseil team two. And I mean, how quickly did you know you were going to Afghanistan? Was it immediately?

Yes, because of the fact the war was already in action in like full swing, everything was just completely changing, resources were going over there. And it was more of the fact, I think, in the platoons where we were waiting to see where we were supposed to go. And so like any good team does, they always gauge who's good at what, you know? So they put you to the best spot, you know,

depending on who, what platoon is doing what and who's ready for that. I think they put a heavy emphasis on CQB, urban assault. And I think that our platoon excelled in that really well. You know, we had some good team leaders, some good troop chiefs. And I think that gave us an advantage throughout our workup that at some point in the workup, they're like, all right, you guys are the guys going to Sencom.

You know, you guys are the guys going to Afghanistan. So I'd like to think that that was a nature of us excelling at that, you know? You know, I remember, I don't know, I'm actually very curious to hear about what happened on your first deployment because I Was at Seal teammate then we got pushed over to Seal team to we were going to centcom then we became the bastard children of Seal team 2 and we wound up going to Europe and I'm gonna be honest. I don't know exactly how to verbalize us, but I

I'm gonna be honest, I don't know exactly how to verbalize us, but I was so happy to hear that you guys were getting after it over there, but at the same time, it demoralized me. Yeah, I can definitely see that. I'm sitting in Europe on a booze cruise, chasing women, chasing booze, getting into bar fights, and wondering why I went through all the training that I did just to... It was like a frat party over there. I'm not gonna embellish or make it sound cool. It was ridiculous that we were even there.

And I remember hearing the briefs, we would sit in, I think we had a weekly brief, you know, and we would sit in and it was, hey, you know, our boys over in Afghanistan just killed a couple hundred in an airstrike, you know, that JTACs are calling an airstrikes. And so, and it just made me feel like shit. It really did. And there was a lot ofkes and so, and it just made me feel like shit. It really did. And there was a lot of jealousy and as you can imagine,

but what were you guys doing over there? I mean, what was it like? That was early. That was what, 2003, 2004 timeframe? Yeah, so thank you for giving me the visual of having to be in those shoes because I was the first time I really thought of that, you know, of you guys, you know, staring at that. I don't know how I would have reacted if I was told that I wasn't going to go to Afghanistan

and do what I thought I was going to, you know, and we really did feel and the guys that were veterans there, like, you know, all of our guys that have got some experience, they made it known, like, you have guys have no our guys that have got some experience, they made it known. Like, you have guys have no idea how lucky you are to be here. You guys have no idea. Like, we've been waiting for this forever. And here you are now. You know, my first operation that I ever did in my entire life, I'm running through poppy

fields, shots are going off, and I'm crawling through caves and tunnels. You know, the first up, you know, there's barrels full of marijuana, and there's heroin all over the place. you know, the first up, you know, there's barrels full of marijuana and there's heroin all over the place and I must have cleared at least 100 rooms, at least in that compound. That was my first up, you know, sun's breaking over the horizon. And so like that was what I got to experience and I do feel very grateful for that. But it is, it does suck to think back and be like, man, what would have, what would my mindset have been?

I would have been pretty bitter for sure. And so it does suck, but this is clearly a purpose for why it happened that way. But we stayed very active, very, very active. I mean, it was as close as I believe that you could get to operating at the command level and not being there. And I think because we had guys that were influential in that case, and we had troop chiefs that were, you know, from the command. And I think because we had guys that were influential in that case, and we had troop chiefs that were, you know, from the command. For the civilians listening, the command is SEAL Team 6 or development group. Yes.

And so we had a heavy influence from that area. And so the ops felt similar, kind of more conventional, but as similar as I think they would have as far as like a ground assault Direct action type of mission I had experience with direct actions. That was my first stop I ever did we're running toward the target kicking doors down and that's pretty much that the op tempo that I kept throughout my first deployment Was going to direct action type stuff. We did a couple of presence patrols was going to direct action type stuff. We did a couple of presence patrols,

which is where the Humvee in front of me got blown up, and had a piece of the truck hit me in the helmet. I thought it was us right when it happened, but that story in itself was like, man, we were going, we were patrolling, we ended up getting into more contact during the day. And thank goodness I had gone to scout before that. So I had gone through scout and I'd been very adamant

about making sure I knew how to use my optics and everything was dialed in. And I had an optic on my 50, which, I think it helped in that scenario, but I also didn't like it for an urban or close when I'm going through and having to hold my 50 like this. But from a perspective of when we get that ambush, I had a sense of the direction of where it was going to come from. And as soon as the contact had happened, I literally was the first one.

I actually was so, when I heard it over the radio, my adrenaline dumped so much, I didn't even really, it wasn't like I lost control of myself, but I didn't communicate with anybody around me. And I only did that so I could find out where it was and where it was coming from and I could get aligned with the shot. Because I didn't wanna wait for them

to pull the trigger first. You know, so I was like, I had my binoculars like this and I'm listening to the radio, I'm listening to the radio and I'm looking, looking, looking and then boom, I see him right over the rock like clear as day. He grabs the RPG, he goes right like this, he props himself up and I was like, that's when I dropped this, whatever the heck was in my hand, I swung the 50 cal and I did that quick like, okay, there's the rock, there's that spot, there's the dark spot in the mountain, and I did this like twice, and I dropped it and just swung the gun over

and tried to just start putting fire down. So I didn't even say anything. You know, what I said was, my 50 cal's talking now, and everybody else in the convoy was just, that spot just got lit up. And eventually an A-10 came over, which was beautiful, by the way, it was my first ever troops in contact, A-10 coming to the rescue, dropping artillery on him,

but, or air support, but that was a cool experience. And so that was really the first time I got into contact. That was your first engagement. How long did it last? I would say that firefight from us, the lull pretty much happened until we couldn't really see what was going around that area anymore because it just got really dusty and cloudy. At that point, we stopped firing. I don't know.

It wasn't a back and forth. Okay. I saw it before it was gonna happen. Before that guy clicked the RPG, I was able to get my 50 cal up and I actually, when I aimed, I aimed a lot lower than I thought I needed to, because I wanted everything that just blast up in his face.

I wanted whatever little ricochets or whatever fragments of rock were just gonna explode up into his face and get him to at least respond. You know, so I wasn't looking to like put the bullet into his chest. So that face and get him to at least respond. So I wasn't looking to put the bullet into his chest. So that at least got him to respond. And then maybe even after that, he might have ducked back behind the rock. But all the stuff going up there after the fact, they confirmed it the next day.

But that was my don't you dare pull that trigger because he was getting ready to prop up and get comfortable. So yeah. I don't you dare pull that trigger because he was getting ready to prop up and get comfortable. So yeah, I don't know how long it lasted. I would say if I had to guess, I would say seven to 10 minutes, maybe, you know, just constant fire up there because I didn't want him to pop his head back up either. Who confirmed it?

Was it you guys? Did you guys go up and? No, no, it was whatever crew went in there the next day. Whatever conventional crew went in to do the sweep. Yeah. So, so that had been the brief that I got. I mean, this is literally 20 years ago, you know? So, and I just remember hearing how many,

how many airstrikes you guys were calling in. And I was happy, jealous, but it sounded like a really good deployment. Yeah. Again, it was a blessing. I mean, even the Humvee in front of me, that we lost those guys, and then the guy, Brian O'Let,

that was the first dude that I ever operated with, spoke with, broke bread with, cleared with that we lost. I wasn't with him when it happened. He got hit by an IED, traveling through one of the operations and he was kind of more of a fluid position. I couldn't tell you what he was doing, but he was on a fluid position, so he would come with us,

he would go with this other force, and that was when we lost him, but that was the first emotional like, you know, man, I just was eating with that guy. It was literally just sitting down with that dude. You know, funny life, you know, bringing life to the party, you know, really just kind of set on my heart as I solve kind of realizing like,

oh, okay, like we're here, you know. And Pat Tillman too, like that was separate. That was more of like a separate thing that happened on our deployment shortly after Brian Olet, but that was another like big spin up. But Brian Olet was one of the first guys that, you know, we lost. How did you process that? I think for me at the time, you know, because we live such a compartmentalized life, that's exactly what I did with it.

I was a very, there's a very matter of fact. Like that's what we came here to do. There's gonna be a risk to this. And I believe I got emotional about it. I think I cried for sure. I think I cried for his life. And the things that always start to process are, who's his family? Did he have children?

Those are the questions that you start asking yourself when you lose somebody. What effect is that going to have on somebody else? I think selfishly, we as warriors, which it can be good and it can be bad, but we compartmentalize it so much to the point where we can't even think what's going to happen to our families too much if we overthink it because it will start hampering our ability to make a good decision. It will start stopping us from going into the gunfight. Because it's like, oh man, well if I go through that door and I get hit, well then my kids are gonna suffer. There's an element to that, for sure, to prey on, to think about but for me

It's the weight of the fact that we lost a dude and it impacted me in a way that that kind of Made me confront reality as it was so it gave me a rep Not wasn't the guy standing next to me every day You know wasn't my best friend, but it was a guy that I got to interact with and know You know and go to the head with and you know eat with and so it was a guy that I got to interact with and know, you know, and go to the head with and, you know, eat with. And so it was a very close relationship that all of a sudden wasn't there anymore. So it was like this, this almost taking it that young is almost training to like, this is going to happen again. You know, for sure.

You know, Dom, I talked about it with Eddie as well, but I didn't realize you had lost. I didn't put that together, that you had lost somebody on your very first deployment. I just want to say that I've interviewed a lot of war hammers, a lot of veterans on this podcast. And we always talk about loss and how to cope with it in your career path, Ben. I mean, from your first deployment through Gold Team, I mean, the guys, the operators over at Gold with extortion, with Adam Brown, with and and I don't know all of them with with Louise you know I've never ever out of all the interviews I've done I've never heard anybody experience more loss than the men over at Gold Squadron

and my heart goes out to you, man. I mean, that was, you guys have been through some heavy, heavy loss and I want to dig into that later, but I just wanted to say that because it's important. A lot of people deal with loss and nobody has more experience on how to do it than the few of you guys over there. Definitely, even hearing you say it back, I think I live with it in a very interesting way.

And I don't really have all the answers of exactly how I move forward with it. I mean, I've got a lot of ways and a lot of methods and prayer and all of the things that I've tried to do. But when I do reflect on it, when I do stop and think about it, it does, it can crush me if I let it, you know? But I have done my best to try to use it for the better of the world, to try to sit and contemplate and honor. I always talk about honor.

Living a life that those that have gone before you would be proud of. Well, what is Lewis going to be proud of? What is all the guys that I've ever lost going to be proud of for? You know, Adam looking at me right now as a Christian. You know, would Adam be okay with me the way I'm acting as a Christian or am I being lukewarm? All the men that I got to fight with, spar with, I mean, it is kind of surreal in a sense of what God has allowed me to experience. And there is beauty from it all. And I think that's the key thing,

is taking those experiences, knowing that this life is not forever, and really using them to the best of our ability. But it was heavy when it was happening. And I know we'll dig into it more later. When I first started this whole podcasting thing, an online store was about as far from my mind as you can get. And now, most of you already know this, but I'm selling Vigilance Elite Gummy Bears online.

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Yeah, so that deployment, like you said, the contrast of what you gave me of really putting into perspective about the dudes that didn't get to go over there and do what we did, makes me even feel more grateful about what we did. And that deployment was definitely engaging. You know, we did a lot of different dynamics throughout that deployment.

And troops in contact, I had the IED situation that happened with the Humvee in front of me and a lot of other engagements that I ended up getting in. But then also, I also went through a divorce in that deployment as well. Because I was up getting in. But then also I went through a divorce in that deployment as well. Because I was actually married through civil court. You know what I mean? I just did the whole go to the courthouse.

It really came down to a situation where I was living with somebody and you're young and you're trying to figure this out, you're trying to contemplate what's right, what's wrong. And I had no good guidance on what to do, which is why it didn't end up working out. But really like money became an issue, we needed BAH. So it seemed like the right thing to do to go down

and be like, oh, well, we're in the military and you're married, which by the way, if I give any advice on that situation, it's like, don't do it just for the money. Don't do it because of these things. Put your faith in between your relationship, because this is why these things tend to happen. So I ended up working through a divorce on an Iridium phone sitting in a fob overseas. So that was something I was just dealing with on the side, trying to put it in its place. But things got very challenging there as well.

So divorced at 19? Yeah, well, 20. 19 or 20. Yeah, I think like the official, like everything going through, you know? But I was working through that process, you know, at that time. Wow.

Wow, I did not know that either. Yeah, just another part of not know that either. Yeah. Just another part of the journey that I learned from. And after that deployment ended, I already thought about going to the command because it had come up before. That was a thing. It was kind of foreign in the distance. It wasn't really a reality, but it was there.

The spark was there. So I think coming back from that deployment started to allow me to prepare for that mindset. And then when I got out of that relationship, I lived as a single team guy for a while, trying to figure out my life and where I wanted to go after that. But my heavy focus started to come into going to the command. And that really dialed, that got rid of all the distractions I had going on in my life to really give me something to look forward to, you know? I got a question.

Why do you call it the command? Why don't you call it dev group? Why don't you call it still team six? I just think I've got it. Is that out of habit? Yeah, it's out of habit. You know, I tend to be, you know, I'm like, that's part of my life. It's gone. Anything that would bring attention to the guys that I know are still doing work, why am I the one that needs

to shed light on it? Because I do feel like there's an absolute need for secrecy and the operational flow of how and when to do things. So if I'm the catalyst or the spark that draws unnecessary attention, then I don't want to be that guy. Got you. So I think out of the nature of my conversations, I've always just brushed it off. I've always just been like, you know, we can talk about other things. It's a great time while I was there.

And I know that there's a back and forth about what's out there, what's not out there, what they've released, what they haven't released. And that's a whole political and cluster in itself. I barely even understand it still to this day. So I tend to just be more protective of talking about stuff. So understandable. Yeah. Just curious.

A couple of questions before we move on. Previously you had mentioned, and I got this a lot too in my career, was you should be, you should feel lucky to be here. You need to earn your way to combat. What are your feelings on that? What were they at the time when people were telling you that? Well, I remember guys saying that we were lucky to be in those situations and because I didn't really have any other experience to go off of and I kind of

had to trust what they were saying, I believed it. I mean, I believed in the contrast of our time that there wasn't much going on elsewhere in the world. We were in the right spot. We were in combat operations. When you're actively engaging and you're actually going on operations, it's easy to kind of hear that and say, you're right, we are very lucky and blessed to be in these situations. As far as earning your way, I think that that goes along with proving yourself. Selection and training is something that I talk about a lot. I think that the selection and training process is a beautiful thing for anything that we

do. In fact, I don't think it's done enough in a lot of cases. The selection that you went through and the training that you went through ultimately allows you to get to the point where you've earned. you can call it that, you can call it whatever you want, proved or reached a level of trust within an area of your life. When we're linking up with other team guys, for the most part, in combat, you can kind of figure that he's got some base level of knowledge of knowing how to clear a room, knowing how to take care of himself, willingness to fight, and he's

not going to quit. That's kind of like a base level. Well, without the knowledge and the proving and the earning and the getting to that point, I don't really have that about him. I think that that's important to recognize in the sense of when we say we're lucky or we had to earn to get to this point, we have to realize what that is. And I think that the selection and training absolutely puts guys in the right place. Like I was talking about before, the military has gotten really good at this or else you

wouldn't be able to put something like the command or dev group together and to get guys to be that precise, that surgical, that pointed, you know, to put this guy with this bullet right here and now, you know? That's incredible. It's like a mini miracle every time it happens, you know? So there's something to be said for that selection and training. It's just, I'm curious, I mean,

and we have two different perspectives here because you went right away. It took me an entire deployment cycle to actually get the opportunity to go to combat. But it always, it irritated me when people would say that to me because, you know, I had joined to, well, I mean, the community is the one that gave me the ominous dominance to be here and to go to war. And I always kind of took it as an excuse

on why we're not there. And it's, man, it irritated me a lot. Because it's a lot of training. It's a year, what six months of odds, if you make it the first time, then SQT, which is what four months, then jump school, which is another month then. And if you show up at the beginning of the cycle,

you have another year and a half before you ever, so you're looking at what, two and a half years before you ever get the opportunity to go to war or on a deployment and then you get on deployment and it's well You got to earn your way and it's like man, I've been here for yeah two and a half years now and Well, I'm ready one thing that's one thing that sticks out to me was a common phrase that we heard when it's like you can't chase it Yeah, you know, you can't chase it. Yeah. You know, you can't chase the war.

That stuck with me because there's a sense of faith that has to come with that too. That you were put in the right spot for the right reasons at the right time. And we kind of deal with the human element throughout that experience. So I think that not chasing it and kind of letting things evolve

is something that's true because there is a matter of circumstance in some cases because you just end up being at that team at that platoon and that's where you're going. And you know, it does suck to think that we would sit around. To me, I have a very interesting perspective of it because the second I got there, I hit the ground running and I didn't stop until I left. You know, literally that chunk of time where we're at war, I was on the ground the whole time, never decided to pull back. And it wasn't really until things started getting political that I decided to stay home.

And even then the guys were still going out because that was when extortion 17 happened. But I think that there's obviously an element of, there would be frustration if I didn't get to go do what I wanted to do. I mean, there would be frustration if I didn't get to go do what I wanted to do. I mean, there is a level of joy that I took with being like, I do want to fight for freedom. I do want to go after bad guys and protect my nieces and nephews and all of our children

here at home. Freedom, man, freedom to me is taken on a whole new level at this point in my life, but I still understood it. Then like what freedom was, we have the ability to go do all these great things in our country. How do I be a part of protecting that? So when you're training for it,

when you're living it, when you're eating and breathing that, and then you don't get to implement those, oh man, I know it's frustrating in some cases because we were staring it. It's kind of like staring at the bad guy that's planting the IED but you won't let me go do anything about it. I'm literally watching the guy dig on the road

and plant IEDs and you're telling me that nobody's gonna go? What? I mean, that was probably the most pissed off I've ever been overseas in the talk, in the command center, watching this happen, looking at everybody in there, giving me blank faces, like we're not gonna do anything.

Who do we need to call? Well, he's sleeping. We'll wake him up, you know? And so those things still go on today at a micro level and at a large level. And I think that it's just a circumstance and we have to pray and ask God, like why did I go through that circumstance?

Why was that my path? And again, oftentimes when we're put down a path where we don't do what we expected to do or it doesn't turn out, it's because God was either protecting us or guiding us something much, much greater. Good answer. So, the command, it caught your interest after the first deployment. Yeah, so after the first deployment, I really started to hone in on how to be better at these skills, what I need to be prepared for. Being in combat and then coming back and really being able to analyze what we did well on

the deployment, that made training even more intense. So if we didn't take it seriously in Bud's when they said, somebody just attacked us, and if we didn't take it seriously, actually being in combat, like then getting back from it and being like, okay, we almost died, we lost a guy, our training was ramped up even further. I think that's when SEAL Team 2 really started to like, get good at what they were doing.

And then my focus just turned to the command and I'm like, hey, that's a possibility for you. You could go screen. I was like, really? I can go screen? And however old I was when I actually decided to screen, it was like 22, maybe 21. End of 21, early 22. My 19, 20, 21, 23 gets very fuzzy about when was what. So, apologize if I'm not completely accurate there. But it was around that time I started to screen and then I put a lot of my focus and energy into that,

trying to figure out what I needed to do. And my troop chief looked right at me and he said, you're probably not gonna make it, you're too young. You know, you've only got one deployment, you need to have two. And so I kept the process going anyway, because I wanted to go give it a shot. And that's when the workup started to happen.

I didn't actually go and do the screening until I came back from my second deployment, you know, but the start of the process went, you know, we were in the process of doing it. And then my second deployment, I did a lot of, and this one I don't really talk about too much, but I did a lot of surveillance stuff. Okay.

I did a lot of like bouncing around all the, you know, places that we weren't supposed to talk about where we were going and just doing a lot of low-vis, plain clothes, which is where I even further fell in love with surveillance. We did a surveillance course before we went to that deployment and I crushed it. Like doing all the things like follows and vehicle work. And like I still to this day really enjoy that.

It's like artwork for me. And so when I actually got to go do it for real, that like put everything together, you know, you were okay. I know where you were at. Yeah. So how weird. So I was supposed to go to Afghanistan my first deployment, then you took it. Then second employment, I was going to go and do that.

I was, the MI6 put that course on, are we talking, this is the same thing, right? And then luckily, we got yanked out of that and did go to Afghanistan. But interesting. Do you not want to talk about it still or? Yeah, I just don't know what they've released and what they have and I don't want to go down a road that I'm putting myself in a weird spot. But it was an amazing experience in the sense of like I'm boots on the ground, I'm outside

of like really bad guy territory taking images and doing surveillance and photos. I mean it's a total 180 from what you were doing. That was the greatest part about it is that I was literally kicking the door in and now I'm having to sit crunched in a little trunk with my MP5 sitting right next to me, clicking photos as fast as I can while this guy comes out of the door. But I do, and I did enjoy surveillance, and that's what kind of brought the everyday carry concealed kind of lifestyle to life to me to realize like, oh, I actually still need to be able to go do a direct action, but I need to just look like a dude that fits into this environment.

And that's where I was like, I got to get good at this, because this is a skill. How you carry, where you carry, where you place stuff in your car, what are the tactics in a small team? How do we as two men clear a building? How do you go on the other side of the block and me getting a contact and you come help me while we're not supposed to be seen? That's really cool stuff to me to think about. To this day, that's why I wanted to like, I always say that my mission statement is

to build the Iron Man suit that you can't see. I want to be capable, but you have no clue. You know? And so that deployment was really cool in the sense of, you know, really engaging with the bad guys at another level, another layer, like right next to them,

but they don't know that I'm there, you know? It's, that is something that not a lot of seals get to experience, a mission like that. That's, I, me personally, in my short career That is something that not a lot of SEALs get to experience. I have a mission like that. I, me personally, in my short career at the SEAL teams, that was probably my favorite training course I ever went through. What was that? It was just very unique compared to what everybody else was doing.

But at what point did you go to Sniper School? That was in the middle of my first and second deployment, somewhere in there. And that was one of the schools where I wanted to go to sniper school, my whole childhood. It was like a dream come true to actually be in sniper school. You know, Josh Rich? I do.

Yeah, I went to, he was my shooting buddy. Interesting. He was my shooting buddy. He was my shooting buddy. Interesting. He was my shooting partner. He was my shooting buddy. So, dude, we had such a blast. And I went to, I went to sniper school with Adam Brown. You know, he was actually the class leader in sniper school. But Josh and I, man, we, there was a beautiful story about us going through sniper school

together, but it was in the midst of first and second deployment. And it was one of the best schools to this day that I've taken just from a standpoint of marksmanship and precision and discipline. I mean, we barely slept trying to get stuff dialed in. And the one cool story that I have for Josh and I is that kind of like I talked about in the very beginning was like the relentlessly seeking truth piece,

is that we were after the truth, and we knew we were gonna deploy together, which by the way, we had just deployed together, right? So we were in Afghanistan. And so this is the contrast now, even talking about this and thinking about Josh and I knew that we were probably gonna have to go on an op together and shoot somebody.

And so the reality kind of took a different level of to us. And when everybody's calling wind, when you start playing games about who's calling wind and reading your own wind and then not trusting your buddy, there's a really cool dynamic there. And we knew a lot of people at one phase where you have to go over this bump. It's like a turning corner.

Because it's like a turning point. And most dudes were getting frustrated with their wind collar because the wind wasn't right. And so they were calling their own wind. I would say 50% of the guys were like, I'm just going to call my own wind because I know what it is. Bang, boom, hit. So what happens is the breakdown and trust with your wind collar and the shooter starts to degrade because you're not, he's not getting the real time feedback of

screwing up. So Josh and I had this middle point where we were like, almost throwing blows with each other on the firing line. Like log books getting tossed. Are you kidding me? Like my score is at stake here. And we got so pissed, but then that one night that we were like, we gotta figure this out.

Everybody else was out of the classroom. We were the only ones left in there, and we were literally like mad scientists, drawing stuff up on the whiteboard, getting clear paper, putting stuff up, going through scenarios, running through the drill again. Why do we keep doing this? Why does this keep happening?

You need to get it better at this, and you need to get better at that. Well, we did that for a few nights in a row, and we slowly started to see progress. And then all of a sudden, towards the end of the marksmanship portion of it, there started to be a really fast swing with Josh being like, every single time he's hitting black, every single time I'm hitting black. So we had to go through that valley together, but really trust each other and keep doing

the right thing. And then, boom, we're all the way up at the top now where we got top shooting pair and he got honor man. Oh man. You know what I mean? Like it was pretty epic. Like every shot, like I could just see it, but we had this unwavering trust to make sure that they were calling the wind.

Because we were getting ourselves in situations where it wasn't as clear as, hey, we're just on a nice firing line, controlled environment, we know what's going on, I can see all the markers, the flags. Well now you're going out where there's nothing to call wind off of. And now you're like, wait a minute, like where's the littlest thing? So this is where he owns that environment now. Let him be immersed in that environment while I'm being immersed by taking the shot. And of course they go hand in hand.

You learn both, right? We can call our own wind. But it's the trust that that process exists for of having that level of accountability. Because once we were able to get through that, we really quickly realized like, hey, Josh, what is it? It's three and a half left. I'm like, dude, I think it's three. He's like, you know what?

I just saw something else. I think you're right. Let's go three and a quarter. Boom, take the shot. So it was like this process that happened, but the reason I get so excited about that is because we got top shooting pair. And I think that because we were willing to throw blows, we found the truth of what it was supposed to be.

So anyway, that was sniper school. And then being in it with Adam Brown too, the other story I have from sniper school is that it still haunts me to this day in a good way. But I was late for class and the look that Adam Brown gave me when I walked into that class, I will never forget my entire life. He was like, you're late to this class. And it went right through me the way he looked at me

and like disappointing because, you know, he was reporting to the instructors and And it went right through me the way he looked at me, like disappointing, because he was reporting to the instructors and he was really pissed at me, really, really pissed. Like to the point, like he didn't talk to me that day. And I was just like, man, I just pissed off the class leader, you know, still trying to learn who Adam Brown is and just work with him a little bit. But we ended up reconciling,

we had a long conversation afterwards. I told him I was sorry and I apologized. And he just gave me a brotherly correction. He said, hey man, you screwed up, you were late, you shouldn't have done it. I'm like, I know. And we grew from that. So those are the two coolest stories I have

from Sam's school. Yeah. I had a, I got the opportunity to work with Adam. You know, it teamed two on my second deployment and in the lead up to it, he got a bad car accident on that deployment. But, bam, what did he, just a, another phenomenal human being, you know. Yeah.

Unwavering in his values and into the team. And, you know, it was unfortunate because I didn't appreciate it as much as I should have at the team. And, you know, it was unfortunate because I didn't appreciate it as much as I should have at the time. And, but looking back now, what an opportunity. Yeah, I wish we had talked about God more. You know, I think I can say that for a lot of people,

but Adam Brown was one of those dudes where it's like, you just knew that he cared, man. You can say that about some people, but when he looked at his wife and his children and he talked about them, it's like, dude, this guy has got it together, or at least he's trying the best that he can. The perseverance that he showed, even with losing his eye, you know, after the fact, he was not going to let that stop him. He's the only dude I know that went to sniper school with one eye. He's the only dude that I know that went to the command

with one eye. And being in green team with him, you know, went to green team with him as well, is like, is this guy going to be able to do this with one eye? And his attitude and mindset and tenacity is what carried him through all of that. And he could do whatever we did with one eye, but what an incredible human being, an example. The book Fearless, which I'm sure you've read, that's a hard book for me to read. I can't even open it without getting emotional. But Adam Brown, above all, he was a warrior for Christ. And one thing that I would change about our relationship is I would have went right back and be like,

dude, we gotta talk about Jesus. Like let's dig in here. You know what can we talk about? I'm sure you at that time, you would have schooled me and taught me a lot, but we'll get to talk about it at some point. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Adam was one of the most dedicated people I've ever known. But yeah, I actually took the picture that's on the cover of that book.

Oh, you did? Yeah. The way I did not know that. Yeah, that was at the range and somewhere in Afghanistan. But yeah, I'm just happy that I got to meet the man. Yeah, absolutely. But so another thing, just this is way out there, but you were an entrepreneur very early on.

In fact, I remember the first time I met you, somebody had told me you own two or three houses already. I was like, we can buy a house. That's kind of how I felt about it too. I walked right into the some real estate office and just said, hey, I want to buy a house. And once again, you were the influence from that. How many properties did you own back then? At the time, I think it was about three. And on my first deployment, I had bought the house. I bought it when I was 19.

And I had been doing the research over there. And I remember paying rent and all those things that kind of worked up in my heart. And I'm like, I don't want to pay rent to somebody else. We should own our house. And so I looked into what the details were that and did a lot of research. Honestly, the guy Doug Gregory and God bless his soul, he's not here anymore, but he was the guy that's like, he was willing to do it.

He helped mentor me right away, right at 19 years old, right when I came to Virginia Beach, I met the guy and he brought me to all these houses and he just started kind of giving advice. And I was like, what would you do in this scenario? What would you do in this scenario? And we just had a great relationship. And he told me earlier on, he said, if you bought a house for me, he said, I will manage it for you

if you end up renting it for 5%. So like a really low rate, something that you couldn't even say no to. And so as a friend, he was like, I'll just do it for you. And I was like, cool. So I bought my first house, went to deploy again, and I was like, well,

I might as well try this renting thing. And when I did that, and he took it over, and him and I worked really well together, I just kept doing that. I would deploy him by a house, deploy him by a house. And so to the point where I left team two, I think I was at three at that point and then I bought my fourth before I went to the command. Oh my gosh.

And I just was like, I was like, this is easy. I realized that you could buy a house for a really low amount of money with all the closing and all the things that we did. And I actually never used my VA loan. And I did that on purpose because I knew these weren't my forever homes. I knew I didn't want to lock my VA loan up into something that I wasn't going to be able to stay in. So I very strategically looked at smart loans that I could get on the house that allowed me to put a little bit of money down and then

praise God, everything has worked to that point of growing in equity and growing. And it's something that I did just was having fun with on the side. You know, like all of us, we have something we want to do and we have free time. And for me, it was that it was like, Oh, cool real estate. This sounds fun. You know, I got a good buddy that's helping me out and I saw the fruits in it right away because we were making money as soon as we started renting it, we were making a little bit of money. So it's crazy, man. 20 what, 21 years old with a many real estate empire,

business man, I mean, you really had your shit together. And I'm sure that paid off or is still paying off. But let's move on. So let's move on to going to Green Team. How was that? Where did it start? So Green Team. How was that? Where did it start? So Green Team 06 That was right when I was picked up and by the way

Getting there is interesting because they told me that I wasn't gonna make it when I screamed I passed all the screening. I did everything right. Passed the physical, passed the mental, passed everything. And then I remember my troop chief came back and he said, hey, you didn't make the cut off. Cause I was the youngest dude to sign up. So it was like, you're just, you're probably not going to make it. He even told me that upfront.

And when I screamed, they came back, they gave me a definitive no. And I was like, man, it's like that stinks. But I wasn't, I didn't really have my hopes up that much just because I knew how And I was like, man, it's like that stinks. But I didn't really have my hopes up that much just because I knew how young I was. And I think about a week and a half later, two weeks later, he's like, Hey, I need to talk to you. I thought I was in trouble. And I was the way he said it. And so I went and sat down with him in the office and he's like, Hey, I got a good news. He's like, they just, you were the last one they pulled in,

two other guys dropped off, and I was able to help get you in the list. So at 23, you know, I'm over here going through green team. Damn. Yeah, I showed up to Gold Squadron when I was 23 years old. I remember looking at the board,

the first thing I did when I got into the team room, as I was like, I wonder how many guys have got in here at 23. I went and looked at the board, the first thing I did when I got into the team room, I was like, I wonder how many guys have got in here at 23. I went and looked at the board and there was, I think the youngest guy was like 25 or 26, you know, and I was like mind-blowing to me. I was like, okay, well, here I am. And I don't know if since then there's got to have guys that have got in that are around the same age or younger, But that was kind of crazy. And I was so pumped about that and I just completely continued to shift my focus on,

I wasn't dating anybody. I wasn't doing anything. I wasn't going out drinking. I was very locked on to go into the command. I was like, I did not want anything to come and disrupt my plan for getting to the point where I wanted to go. Because I knew how fragile that was. One wrong thing. Boom, it's done. So I really did try to protect that time. And that's where, you know, I say that I tried to do nothing that was going to distract me. And that's when my wife came back

into the picture. I went up north and actually went to see my family, my dad, and linked up with her for just to go out to dinner. And like since that night, that's it. It was just, we knew right away that, you know, we were probably gonna spend the rest of our lives together. And she was the distraction, but she ended up being a beautiful distraction

because she actually helped with a lot of what was going on in Green Team. She ended up moving down to Virginia and all the way through that process. I knew this is one thing about Green Team that will always stand out in my mind. I had a book I was supposed to read, Blink. And it was a great book. I had started, I was super fired up about it. And we had to read these specific books, going through the training course. And I had the day come up where we were supposed to have read it all.

And so I was smoked from training that day. I literally came home, my clothes are soaking wet. I'd hand them off to her. She'd have dinner ready for me. I remember going to bed that night, like I gotta finish this. I think I got about halfway or three quarters of the way through and I just passed out.

I woke up with that like, I didn't finish the book. And I know I gotta leave in like five minutes and she's sitting there in the edge of my bed, she's like, it's okay, I read it for you. It's like I knew right away, I was like, you are amazing. So she gave me the cliff notes on everything

that was in the book. And I was like so pumped that day, I went in so squared away, like ready to talk about the book. But that was the instance she started to kind of help me too. So having somebody that can help you through those difficult times is huge. And that was a moment that was for that was for us will always remember that.

Where did you meet your wife? Where? In high school. In high school? Yeah. In high school. We, we dated in high school and, you know, we were kids. So we were trying to figure it out like everybody else.

And, you know, we really had a very, very, very strong bond earlier on. To the point like, I think I told her, I'm going to marry you someday. And she kind of gave me like, yeah, okay, whatever, right? But we're kids. And so we kind of went our own separate ways. We didn't really have a falling out or anything. And we sort of kept in touch. And then at one point, you know, when I was getting ready to screen from Green Team,

on my second deployment, I remember saying to myself, so I got to get this girl out of my head. I was like, I literally just have to stop forgetting about it because it's never going to happen. There's going to be nothing that ever comes of this relationship. And then I believe it was 24 hours later, I went to check my voicemail and there was her voice after I had just said, like, God, you got to get this girl out of my head.

And she was like, Hey, I was just checking it on you. And I was just like, Mike, you're in this girl's voice. And that's when we went home, went on the date and then we've been together ever since. So it's nice to know somebody that long, you know, because we know everything about each other. She knows everything about me, you know, from my childhood and on. So it is beautiful to have that relationship with her, you know? Yeah, yeah, that's that's awesome.

So what was for those listening that don't know what Green Team is, Green Team is the training selection process to get into development group. Right. And so what was what was your first impression on day one, week one of Green Team? That it was going to suck and to be prepared for it to suck. They're at the level where I try to explain to people every time you go up the selection and training process, Bud's is kind of like, we know you're not going to quit after you get out. Well now, it's a higher level of thinking.

Their expectations of you are higher, of your intelligence and how you apply different problem solving. So for me, I was just going to do whatever it took to get to go through it and get through it, but that it was going to be very, very, very difficult. But at the same time, there were glimpses going through CQB that, man, this is awesome. We're moving at a pace that we've never moved before. This just feels different. So the training felt different, the environment felt different, and everybody's trying to

reach the same thing. You're on a regular team and you got your decent shooters and you got your guys that suck at shooting. But in the green team, everybody's shooting good. Everybody's trying to reach a level of excellence. So that part I really enjoy. I enjoy that part about being around other people and then having other guys in the rafters is always yelling at us and correcting us because that means that I can improve. Any type of feedback that I'm that means that I can improve. Any type of feedback that I'm getting means that I can improve.

And I'd say Eddie and I, at the heat of really where green team and people get kicked out, him and I had these long days, and we would still get in the car, and I thank Eddie for this a lot, still get in the car and go drive to the gym that was 30 minutes down the road. Some guys were like,

I have no idea how you're doing that. The instructors are like, you're crazy. You know, we'd show up and the instructors would be in there. And I don't even know how we did it, to be honest with you. There was just something in us and Eddie's drive and my drive that just said, let's go. We don't wanna, we're not working out specifically to gain strength, but we're running through the house

for doing all these other drills. And Eddie always wanted to maintain that level of brute force. And that's something I always respected about Eddie. It's like you look at that dude and he's like, that guy will crush you. Whether you're in the train or you're out in town, that's why me and Eddie became really good friends because we not only kick indoors down together, but we always relied on each other for that. So that was a level of like just another layer deeper

that we went, which made it even more special. But I mean, those long runs and everything we did, I mean, it was a kick in the butt. What did you find the most challenging for you personally? In green team specifically, I think the thing that was most challenging was the fact that you have the rope to hang yourself. So you have to be able to manage how far out you go, how far you push, because they'll let you fall right off the cliff. And when you're in the house and you're really running, I like to ramp things up as much

as I possibly can, especially when I'm under that pressure and I'm being tested, like I want to make sure I'm reaching the pinnacle and the apex and whatever is expected of me. So I think for me, it was the challenge of trying to get to that point and finding out where the limit was, of not going over the edge where I'm pissing the instructors off or I'm doing something that's going to get me in trouble. And that kind of showed itself, you know, when we were clearing rooms and we were doing stuff like it got really, really close. Like you have the, you have everybody's barrels like, you know, so how far you go over that

ledge is really up to you as an individual. So I think for me it was just learning what that was in my maturity level, being 23 years old, still trying. I mean, I wasn't getting corrected by men often. Like, hey dude, why are you doing that? And honestly, some of the things that I did that I looked back on, I'm like, I really have no idea why I'm doing that. Thank you for telling me.

That's a lot of what men need to hear. They go screw up, they trip over themselves and thank God I was with guys that were bold enough to correct me and that's really what a lot of the teams are is being around other like-minded individuals that are leaning into this leadership. But I grew up a lot through Green Team. And again, I think the most challenging thing was the fact

that I just didn't wanna go over the edge and try to find that line. You know, that was the tough part. just didn't want to go over the edge and try to find that line. That was the tough part. Everything about it was written on my heart. I was supposed to be there. The physical part of it, the mental part of it. If you told me I had to do that again or even buds to be where I'm at now, I wouldn't even

think about it. I would just go do it. I would just be, okay, it's fine. Let's go do it. I was just like, well, okay, it's fine. Let's go do it again. You know, because of the beauty that comes from that type of arduous training, you know. How many guys were you in there with? Approximately. 32, maybe? Somewhere around that, I think. How many made it? Oh, man. Did you ask any of this questions? Probably.

Okay, well maybe he's got a better answer. I honestly don't remember. I want to say it was a low number, maybe 17 or something. Okay. I'd have to go back and look at the number. I'm not great with number numbers like that. What hangs most guys up? What gets them kicked out?

Complacency. Complacency. Complacency. Complacency. 100%. I think that they, what I saw guys get kicked out for was they were pushing the limit, like I was saying, about finding the edge. And every time I felt like it was a level of complacency,

though, I was like, okay, I got this. And then boom, it would just bite him in the butt. It would just catch up to him in the back, whatever it was. Clearing in the room, sweeping somebody who weren't supposed to sweep. You know, one guy forgot his gun, didn't bring his gun to a training event. You know, it was just like-

That could be an issue. You can't help but to feel bad. Like, everything that you do just gets crumbled right then and there. Like, you forgot your gun. Like, you don't have your gun on the training. So complacency, I think was the biggest factor as with anything that we do,

should go into the range right now. Our biggest enemy is complacency. If you and I went to the range, we could put some rounds down. Complacency would be our biggest threat because we're in a position of confidence, we're in a position of knowledge, and now you have to steward that knowledge

and position and skills appropriately. Because if you don't, it can fly off the handle really quickly. Yeah. Yeah. So, moving, let's move towards graduating. What was that process like? What did it feel like? What did you made it?

I think the culmination is kind of exactly what I talked about, about growing up to the team room and looking at the board of recognizing how young I was and walking into that, which felt like, you know, if I were to equate it to anything, it would be like walking into the old Knights Templar, you know, lair, you know, in a dungeon that you've been thinking about your whole life and you finally get to see it. You know, you walk in there to be like the history, the good that's been done here, the blood, sweat and tears that have been put into this, to be a part of that now and to know

that your whole life is gonna change because you've been accepted into this brotherhood and this way of living and this intensity. I think just, again, it was just another layer of reality to me to be like, all right, let's game on. We do things here that are different than everywhere in the world. It's the finite portion of the people that get to do this.

So it's just, I was very grateful for it, very grateful, being able to graduate and get through that. And obviously calling back to the guys that, you know, confided in you and believed in you and pushed you to do it. That was always a good phone call. Like call my troop chief and be like, thank you. And I appreciate it so much because of you, I'm here because you allowed me to do this. He could have said no.

And he could have told me, don't bother or influence me in another way. But all those guys, I think there was a tremendous amount of appreciation for the experience that I gained, what I was able to do, and the people that allowed me to do it. You know? Did you guys, do you have an opportunity to request a certain squadron?

No. No. Mm-mm. How's that done? No, I think that it's just done by where they need guys, first of all, you know, that's always what it is, you know, if one team's hurting more than another, they're gonna take dudes and how they split them up.

You know, me and Eddie, obviously, are very close. We were close throughout training and we ended up in gold together. You know, so obviously there's definitely strategy on how they put guys in different places. You know, I have a big lion on my back with a cross that I got. That was my tattoo. I got from my first trip to Italy, which was in Milano, and I went to the Duomo there, which was the third biggest church in the world, going a little bit of a sidebar here. But the why behind it is, I know I have this cross, the crown of thorns and this line on my back. There's got to be somebody that's

also paying attention to the things that are important to us, because even in the squadrons, the symbolism, the logos are emblem and everything that is there is a part of who you are, right? It's part of your identity. So I think that that played a part into it as well. But then, you know, I can talk about my tattoo at another point, but it was pretty cool how there was a cross over there and then getting into the squadron and looking up on the wall and seeing the cross and how much faith was there.

It was already there, you know? And how much it meant to me now, how much it means to me now, but how much I didn't realize it was working on my heart, how God allowed me to experience these things in that squadron with those things that are right there in front of me. Well, why is that the case?

Well, I know now why that happened. God's permissive will leading me to these things. But going into the team room, just kind of the weight of that history really affected me. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up because when I had interviewed Eddie, you know, and a good portion of that interview

was about Eddie's faith and finding God and Jesus. And I brought up, you know, how... My second deployment at team two, there was a lot of, we prayed before every op, but it was completely foreign to me. I didn't, we did not do that in my first platoon, probably because we didn't go on any ops, but there was no, there was no faith, there was no God, there was no Jesus, there was no none of that. It was just debauchery. Then I got over to that platoon and there was 180 degrees.

And a lot of the people that I was in my second platoon with wound up over at Gold as well. Eddie didn't put that together until I kind of brought it up, or maybe he just didn't want to vocalize it. But it's interesting to me how gold seemed to draw in men of faith. and men of faith. And it seemed, I mean, I don't know much about it, but looking at it from the outside and knowing who I do know, who is a part of that squadron, it seemed like that was very much part of the culture over there.

Is that, am I off on that? I don't think so. If I were to look back at it and if I were to say that I saw anything that would intentionally push that direction, I probably wouldn't have been able to point to anything. But hindsight now, there's a very clear purpose for why things have happened the way they are. I mean, you talk about me and Eddie. Me and Eddie kicking down doors together our whole career and then, you know, being in their car ride for, you know, three hours talking about God and Jesus, about how

He's changed everything in us, that we didn't do that for each other, but we lived that life very clearly, knew everything intimately about each other in and out, you know, and then now God has moved in our lives in a different way, you know, like that you can't deny the level of intensity that brings to the weight of what we've done and what we're doing now. And I think that faith is there. I think it's in everybody.

The spirit of it is there. And one of the other things, aside from what the first question I was asked when I came on, is the other thing that I really took away from the command, because we all seek brotherhood, we all want to be in communion with each other. That is just a fact. Christ had 12 disciples and a brotherhood that went and changed the world. That is the way we're supposed to operate and live our lives. We need fraternal correction. We need men of value and virtue to be around us in order to live according to what God's

asking us to. We need somebody else to hold us accountable because if we do it ourselves, forget it. And I left that command with all those symbols and all those things around me and such good men. But I left saying to myself one thing. I said, I cannot imagine what we could have accomplished if we were opening up Scripture and had faith as our number one thing every day. I cannot imagine. I pray for it every day for those guys. I really do because I what they would be able to change in effect putting God first in their lives and not just making it.

In some ways, living out in the squadron was probably one of the most secular things I've ever done in my entire life because of the nature of what we did. It's very cause and effect. It's very like, I can do this and I can make an effect on that. And it's very easy to ignore the spirit

of God moving in our lives. It's very easy to be like, oh, I did that. I did that. I affected all these things. And I pray for those guys to be able to come together in unity under that. I think that a lot of guys did gravitate towards gold that had that sentiment, but I don't really think that they even still to this day know what that even means. I think there might be a couple of guys at the command that are faithful,

but I think there's a lot that's missing there. That's kind of across the board, but something that I really took away of what God allowed me to understand from that. Do you think that diminished over time? I mean, I don't want to mention a whole lot of names because I don't know what everybody's doing these days, but you, Eddie, Adam Brown are the three that I'll mention.

All, Adam had very strong faith from the moment I met him. It sounds, we didn't know each other very well back then, but it sounds like you did as well. Eddie found it later. I mean, did that diminish over time? Well, I certainly didn't have the faith, the level of faith that I have now. Did that diminish over time? Well, I certainly didn't have the faith, the level of faith that I have now. In fact, like I said, like God was on my heart.

And when we went on an operation and we prayed before the op, and there was only a handful of times that happened. Really? Those were some of the most powerful and clear ops that I've ever had. Like I literally felt God's protection with me on those ops.

I think I heard Eddie say something very similar. And that was an absolute true statement. My faith was not anywhere near. Like I was like, okay, God, I know you're there. When things would get tough, I would certainly pray. But it wasn't like I was disciplined with my faith at all. I think definitely being in the teams, definitely living, I think military across the board. Like if we don't even look at the teams

and make it sound like they're all bad, because that's not the case. Every one of these instances you can just draw across the board. The military, law enforcement, all these organizations, like they're all plagued with this political, cultural sense of things that have crept into what's going on. And I think that's been degrading over the last 50 years. Like I was saying before, in the World Wars, most every guy that was going on target or going over in war had a rosary or had a Bible or had some type of scripture close to their heart. And that sense just gone away. Oh, you don't need that. That's not important.

Don't worry about that. That's just something that people used to talk about. Oh, that's traditional and it's faded. So I think that the world just whispers those lies in our ears constantly enough to where now we're seeing the most elite men in the world are lacking in faith, you know? And again, that's just the nature of what's happened in the culture. I mean, it's the crusader, right? Crazy. Crazy to think about. I have a lot of... I've done a lot of praying about that comment right there and about why they exist, right? If we get into the whole idea, typically when you bring that word up, it has an emotional

reaction, so be it, whatever it is. I encourage people to go look for the truth. But the knights have always played a part in protecting and helping. The knights' Templar, the most elite of the knights at that time, they were literally raised in that order to let people go pilgrimage to the Holy Land so that they could pray and worship to God

because they were being ambushed, robbed, killed, and stopped just like today. Same things going on today. It's no different. And so those guys, they had an extreme faith in Christ and the places that they were protecting that were holy, that were holy grounds. And what's grown out of people understanding the Crusades and all that, just like any other military and all the other orders that got created, there were some things that happened that weren't good. There were people abusing their power and all of those things. But I truly believe that the knights that were there to help the innocent and to help those that can't help themselves were dismantled in an unjust way, completely on purpose.

The knights became very, very powerful. The Templar had a lot of money, more than a lot of the Kings of the time. And Philip of Thayer ended up borrowing a tremendous amount of money from the Templars because of their wealth. So he single-handedly tore them down under bribes and torture and putting people in places. He even had an influence on the pope that came in

to get his decision to be able to tear those guys down. And so all I'll say about that, there's a lot of nuances to that. There's a lot of history, a lot of theology, things that we would have to go a lot deeper into, things that I'm still learning myself. But my point is that the Knights Templar were dismantled and taken out of the church.

And so the warrior that existed to stand for those that wanted to go worship and be a part and a pillar of the church were taken away. And ever since that's happened, we've had a weakening of warriors and men and faithful warriors for Christ inside of the church. And it's just transcended throughout time. That's why I believe that we're feeling this sense of our modern culture today.

We see these men raising up. We see these men strengthening in their faith. We see these men orienting toward their lives, their lives in right order and relationship with God and Christ. Because they realize, oh, this is what my actual calling is. And I've been missing.

I've been letting the culture lie to me and manipulate my whole life and idea of who I'm supposed to be as a man, away from being that pillar. So anyway, that's a deeper conversation. I've never heard of put together like that. That's fascinating. How did you put that together? Constant studies and research. I research Templars often. I look at theology often. I deep dive into documents of church fathers and the crusades. And I read as much as I possibly can.

And when I gravitate towards anything, that is what God's asking me to continue to learn more about. And I'm fascinated by it. Because if we don't know, it's a Bob Marley quote, right? If we don't know where we're coming from, we can't know where we're going. Great quote. I've actually not heard that one.

Let's move, we're gonna continue this conversation intermittently, but let's move into, so you show up, you show up to the gold team and how long are you there before your deployment? Man, that's another great question. It couldn't have been any more than five or six months. So, you know, hard and fast training workup and doing all these specialty schools, wanna say it would happen pretty quickly.

What kind of schools? Just a lot more of the surpretitious type stuff that I really enjoy. Also, things just became more focused. Like I said, the magnet that happens of the people that are best in the world that kind of gravitate towards that lifestyle. What's the precision level of combatives that I can get? What's the precision level of blade work. What's the precision level of combatives

that I can get? What's the precision level of blade work? What's the precision level of surveillance? What is the precision level of surpretitious entry? What's the precision level of skydiving? So it's like all these different elements of what we want to be really good at. And I gravitated towards three things really

throughout my time there. And the beautiful part about that place is that, like I said, if you wanna fix the problem, if you see something that's a gap and needs to be improved, you're the one. And so I leaned very heavily into research and development. You know, I was the R&D rep for my squadron for as much as until I left.

Heath Robinson, which is actually on the Hilo and Extortion 17, he actually handed that job to me. I remember when he did it, we were out in Marana, he was just like, hey, do they need you to take this job? Or do you want this? Because he saw that I geeked out with gear. That's a whole other story. But R&D rep, combatives in hand to hand and sniper.

Those are the three things that I would like. That's who I am. I got to get really, really, really good at all three of those things. So do you have the freedom to gravitate towards what's pulling your interest? Absolutely. They don't mandate it. No, because if you think about even a successful business today, the best thing that we can do as leaders is really allow the individual to flourish where they are best and what they love to do and what they will do with nobody paying them a cent.

That's where we want everybody, right? That's the whole goal of our lives to get to that point. And the beautiful thing about being there was such high level thinkers and such tenacious guys that have so much drive is that they gravitate towards those things naturally. I think there's very rare instances where you're like, oh man, we got a little bit of a gap here. I'll use breaching as an example, which is one that never comes up,

but I'm just using it so it's clear. If you watch Daddy's interview and you know that breaching is something that he did really well, is that we had a gap there. Well, then we would have to have the hard conversation like, hey guys, we need this amount of qualification going into this situation. We need a breacher. But it doesn't happen like that because it naturally occurs.

You naturally feel out things that you know you're supposed to be doing. And that's how the squadrons are built. That's how the things come together because you see all these guys have specialty skills. They're not gonna put you over there if your skills are really gonna be good over here. You know, good leaders are gonna identify weaknesses. If the breaching is low over here,

well then the best breacher coming out is gonna go there. You know, we're gonna kind of put the teams together so they're already in stacked in a well-rounded manner. But individually, you know, you kind of have your, these are the things that are non-negotiable. Like what's non-negotiable at vigilance elite? Like you got to be driven. You got to love what you do. You got to want to be here, right?

Well, everybody knows that. And so that's kind of the start of like how the qualifications occur. Everybody needs to know how to skydive. Everybody needs to know how to shoot. We needs to know how to skydive. Everybody needs to know how to shoot. We should all know how to fight, but that's a battle that I had and we understand. But all these kind of baseline things is like, there's your base.

We're all gonna do those things. We're all gonna have a way of the way we think about those and we're gonna apply them. Well, as you start to go to secondary and tertiary levels of training, then you can kind of start being more specific and specialized where we get to the end, everybody's covered, well what's left?

Well Dom's gonna go pick a course that I can go do, you know, combatives and tie boxing and blade work and you know, room clearing and I'm gonna pick what I really wanna do. It doesn't always work that way, but it tends to fire the guys up in a way where it lets them get really good at what they do. They've been able to do it the whole time, but now they put the icing on the cake with

solidifying. You were a really good jump master and you did really good with tandems, jumping out with dogs, but now you're going to tweak that a little bit and you're going to become a really good skydiver because of these techniques that you're gonna work on with dropping out of the air with all kinds of stuff strapped to you. Just as an example. At the risk, I know this is probably,

it could potentially be a very sensitive subject, but R&D, what all did that entail? How it's elaborate as you can? Yeah. The best way to describe the research and development aspect of what I did was from head to toe, you look at a guy, from strobe light to shoelaces, every piece of equipment and gear that somebody is using, we have to trust with our lives. Weapon systems included, armor included into that. So the full combat system is what's really included in the idea of how do we stay on

the most cutting edge of development of using the best gear in the world? That takes a very, very, very large amount of effort in staying out ahead of the curve of what everybody's making. That's why for me, I geeked out. I already had the entrepreneurial sense, but it wasn't just the government stuff that you're doing. You're literally the best R&D stuff that you're ever going to do or going to work with the guys that are so good at what they have

going on from a commercial standpoint. Here's a tent maker that makes this seem specifically the way they mold it and how something comes together from a frame portion. They do it better than anybody else in the world because they develop the process. Okay, well, how do we develop that process into a waterproof bag that we could utilize for something that we need in a specific mission set? So like, it wasn't beholden to this kind of box. It was like, there is the funding and the resources

that you need, now go find the best thing in the world. And I love doing that. I mean, if I, the best comment that I've ever seen on social media is like, that guy's like Batman, give him enough money to be like Batman, and it'll go like make a bunch of stuff. And I would, I would be locked in my basement,

like making all kinds of stuff. But that's what it was for me, was utilizing the resources we had. Also the biggest part of that job was listening to the guy's feedback. And as good as I got with knowing how guys were going to utilize the gear, what they really needed, and I did, I mean, I literally almost knew how they were going to use it better than they were, you know, because that's how intimate I was with the process.

But I still had to shut my mouth because I would still learn things along the way. They're like, oh yeah, it's a good point. I didn't think of that. If we put the strobe here, as opposed to like over here, it's gonna do this, because the bad guy's gonna be over here and he might see this or don't see that. As I've totally pulled that out of my butt, but you know what I'm saying,

is that I wanna hear the feedback so I don't shut myself off from anything that I might miss, so that I collaborate all that input, and I take it to what I'm gonna build. Now I take it to what gear, weapons systems, and things that we utilize, and then you're responsible for running that project to ground with the help of whatever resources that you need. Is there anything that you can talk about that you developed that you're one of your favorite things? It's interesting to look at the guy from head to toe right now. that you're one of your favorite things.

It's interesting to look at the guy from head to toe right now. Aside from the weapon system, everything that's still out there, I had a small part in giving feedback on, even right now, like the carriers that we're currently using, helmets that we're using. There's like little flares on the nods mount that I input and told them to move away,

to change the angle on. on the nods mount that I input and told them to move away, to change the angle on. Calm systems, the in-ear calm systems that you could have ambient hearing. I was adamant about changing those. And I was the one that spearheaded a lot of that through all the different, like I worked with silencs. I worked with Atlantic Signal. I worked with TALIS, all these other companies to be able to bring this stuff and really test it out.

That sucks, change this. Lots of money spent on trying to get that to be right. That's one thing that I was passionate about, was making sure that we had good hearing because I knew how important it was on target. Some guys were just shoving foam in their ears. I'm like, what are you doing? You can't hear anything. Now you're blocking yourself out.

I know we're getting ready to go shoot, but at the same time, you still need that awareness. Because if you take that away, then we lock awareness. That was one thing that I really, really appreciated. Worked with Cry on a lot of the carrier systems, the Evolutions over time. Opscore worked with them. A lot of the uniform stuff worked with them. Any tech type stuff? Not really, not really on the tech side.

I would say Combs is the most technical that I got. A lot of the widgets cameras, all that stuff, that was more, I appreciated what it was, but I was more gear-centric. Like hard goods, like EDC and the hard goods that you can use every day. That was, that was when I was passionate about it. Just curious. When it comes to the compatives, I mean, from my perspective in your business today, that is the, that's the bread and butter of

dynamus and fuels all of your businesses. What was the combatives process like when you showed up and how did you develop it? And is it still like that today? Well, it was the finding the gap that existed and really it frustrated me because we have a lot of this and I'm not taking any away from these three disciplines, you know, but wrestling or judo, Thai boxing and jujitsu, you know, those three are giving you really good leaps and bounds on what you can accomplish.

The problem that I saw was that as good as those are, and those will actually make a good fighter better, and they'll actually make a combative guy better at everything that he does and never stop doing them. But they weren't combining the reality of what we were having to face. I was going on target and I'm like, this is not useful. You're telling me how to do this takedown this way, but I'm not going to apply that in a reality situation. So when I started to seek guys that do combatives really well, my first real experience with a true combatives instructor was Kelly McCann, and he is in Fredericksburg. It might always started to get open on actually applying

the combatives mindset where it's like, you have multiple opponents, we're in unknown environments, there's hard surfaces, there's weapons, there's all kinds of variables that you cannot control. You're not in a controlled environment, there's no referee, and there's weapons, there's all kinds of variables that you cannot control. You're not in a controlled environment. There's no referee and there's no consent. There's all these things that change a martial arts environment to a combatives environment.

And so with those elements missing, I knew that we were burning bad reps. And I also experienced this multiple times because you go into jiu-jitsu classes and they always tell you, oh, relax. You're going too hard. You got to calm down and close your eyes and feel this thing out. And while those are good, I'm not taking anything away from it,

you can't tell a guy that's getting ready to go in and fight for his life that he should be closing his eyes and relaxing because he's going to get his butt kicked. And it was that type of stuff where in no situation in combatives where my life is on the line, am I going to, you know, there's no absolutes here,

but I'm not gonna close my eyes and try to relax. It's an explosive end the fight. It's mere you now movement through all of it until it's done in this area secure. And so I wanted to develop something that was consistently burning good reps in their mind. Everything that you do matters. The second you walk onto the mat, this is real life.

You have your blade on you, you have your firearm on you, you have everything as if you were gonna fight. Now we're gonna train these disciplines and these principles. So it was me developing that on my own of recognizing the reality of that and also going against a lot of the political nature that existed.

There were, there's still to this day, some really good relationships at that level and at the command. And I'm not taking anything away from those guys, but it's important that we apply it in the sense of we take what you're really good at, the jujitsu that you're good at, and apply it in a reality-based scenario.

And that's where I started to open my mind on what scenarios are we doing? How are we applying the combatives? You know, Tony Blauer, Kelly McCann, a lot of the guys that were really pioneering the scenario training. Sayoc's great at it too. And so I recognized very quickly

that we needed to improve. I was actually the first time we improved our combatives facility. I was like so stoked to be a part of that. We were drawn on plans and I was drawn on that areas and where to put the ring. We developed a really cool combatives area that really had never existed before. That was kind of the spark and then today where they are is like light years from where it started, but in a good way.

I still don't think that everybody takes it as seriously as they should, but they are getting the best training in the world. Yeah. Yeah. When did, what else did you incorporate other than, I mean, hand-to-hand, obviously, obviously blade work? Is there any other kind of maybe non-traditional what comes to-

Combattives that you brought to the table. Combative pistol. Combative pistol is something that, again, you get all the YouTube junk out there. There's a lot of garbage on what you watch on YouTube. You got to be careful about burning bad reps. But combative pistol from a standpoint of using your pistol and your blade in a combative way is unique in its own. Because one of the comments that burns me a little bit

is like, oh, well, I see a guy that's tough or fights. That's why I carry a gun. I'm like, I'm telling you right now, you're not gonna use that thing if I can grab you. If I get a hold of you, you're not touching your gun. And people don't think like that. And so it's combining this whole spectrum of a warrior together at a holistic level

that we must understand and apply. And that's why I wanted to be the best in the world of that. I wanted to build a team around understanding that, dissecting it, applying it, proving it, and acting that out on a daily basis. And so we could find new things, we could push limits and see those things. But it really is that spectrum of, you know,

mind, hands, blade, pistol, rifle, sniper rifle. There's this continuum that we have to work in and out of. I could be here to here or I could be here to here and I needed to be able to go back. I think that anybody that calls themselves a first responder or a warrior or lives this lifestyle should embrace the responsibility and duty to know how to do. That's a lot of what we're dealing with with law enforcement or anybody else for that matter that has to go hands-on.

You should be so confident in those skills that you're not thinking about that this might be an issue. You can have a blade or a gun in your hand right now. I don't care. That really doesn't bother me. As long as I'm in within arms length reach, we're gonna be able to work through that scenario. I'm gonna be able to mitigate the threat.

Okay, so even like a kid or somebody that's drunk, you know, it's like, okay, this, I'm not gonna get complacent, but there's ways around just pulling the trigger. You know, I can work through that and de-escalate. Situational awareness, if we can't see it coming, then we're not gonna be able to avoid it. And then de-escalation and avoidance, right?

We should be able to, we all have something to lose. We should be able to de-escalate and avoid at all costs. And so I'm saying these things on top of the combative mindset, because they are really important. If I just talk about combatives, people can get really lost in the sauce of like, oh, that sounds really violent.

I'm like, yeah, I understand the level of violence so I can avoid it. I understand the level of violence so I can de-escalate it. I understand the level of violence so I can get to the hand-to-hand combat and take the guy's gun and blade away from him, save his life and mine,

and then have a conversation with him after. You know what I mean? I do. You have to be able to understand that level. It's like, I think it's Jordan Peterson's quote maybe, that's a man that's capable of violence. A good man is on a peaceful man, but a good man is one that's capable of extreme violence,

something to that effect. But I understand the nature of it, because there's a truth to it. It's that how can we create peace if we don't have the level to understand the violence that's needed for the peace? Maybe we never use it, hopefully we don't. But bad things exist, threats are real,

and evil is very real. And so it's like if I avoid, and I don't confront that reality, well now I'm just a bad, I'm a bad person. I'm actually lazy and wicked because I don't do anything about the wrong in the world, you know, or prepare for it anyway. Have you ever had to utilize any of the systems

that you've developed as far as hand-to-hand in combat? 100%, yeah, multiple times. Can you give us a scenario? There was one on a rooftop where I had my gun out and I got wrapped up pretty tight, you know, from like, you know, coming around the corner and basically being like bare hugged and being on the roof and not wanting to go tumble off because there's no ledge. I just put my blade to work and that's one scenario. There's one where I was trying to- Just blade, no pistol.

No pistol. There was one where I was on a rooftop and I had my gun aside because I was trying to cuff the dude and he was fighting for his life, swinging at me and I had all my gear on. So a lot of the cuffing techniques that I learned through Gustavo actually came into fruition

where I was able to cross arm them, roll them over. His wife's sitting next to me, smacking me in the head, yelling at me. I mean, she wasn't like being super aggressive, wasn't anything that concerned me. But I was able to choke him out, put him to sleep, very calmly then put him in handcuffs. I mean, I have a long list.

Let's go back to the first one that you mentioned. If that's the first one that came to mind, then obviously you have a good memory of what happened. Can you elaborate on it? Yeah, just the standpoint. Again, I don't want to be, I don't know what the right word is, too graphic or whatever, but the one thing I'll say

is that blades take longer to use than we think they do. That's why we talk about timers and switches. Why not start to utilize my blade in those scenarios where... Can you explain timers and switches to the audience? So timers are anything that's going to bleed you out, anything that hits a major artery. You know, when your fight response is kicked in, you're going to have different things in your body that essentially close down or not. I mean, sometimes somebody can get a femoral cut

and it won't even bleed because your adrenaline's pumping and it retracts. So it's always kind of an unknown. But the loss of blood essentially is a timer. And again, just emphasizing the scenarios of these, of why I applied different things, was the context of the situation, the accessibility of these things.

You know, if I'm wrapped up here and I can't utilize my gun, and the closest thing I have from falling off the roof is to be able to pull my blade out and get it to work, that's something that's gonna mitigate me going off the roof for anybody else. And now at that point, I'm looking to end the fight, mitigate the fight, de-escalate this and move

on to another part. I mean, this is on the beginning of the assault. This is me right when I got on the roof. And so a switch, that's a timer where I'm looking for things that are going to slow you down and shut you down, but they take time. A switch is something that has an immediate effect. It's like a light switch. So a good example is a nerve bundle.

Everybody can go like this right here to their shoulder and push in right there. There's a switch right there. So if I am able to attack that switch, I can literally shut your whole arm down and make it numb. And it does not take much pressure to do that. If your fingers right here and you just feel that, like you know what I'm talking about,

that nerve bundle right there. Like it does not take much to go click and then your whole arm's done. That's a switch. So you have switches like that all throughout your body and you have timers like that all throughout your body if you understand where your blood's running and everything else.

So the context is really gonna depend on how and when I use what. So yeah, I've got a lot of scenarios that I've been through it just so you go up the rooftop Yeah, we're on the roof and That's it I mean, I think Eddie was somewhere on the right side of me and Just taking this guy down to the ground because that's what it ended up turning into is like a ground scuffle just taking this guy down to the ground because that's what it ended up turning into

is like a ground scuffle. You know, at that point, my main concern is, is this guy gonna continue to be a threat and affect anybody else that's moving or moving past us. So ultimately just making sure that doesn't happen, you know? How precision, how much precision is involved in blade work? I mean, is it like shot placement? Yeah, I equate it exactly like that, shot placement.

When we're doing blade draws, and if I have a target up, I'll put a head up, I'll put a two by four up, if I'm doing live blade training, it's the same thing, aim small, miss small. So if I'm going for an ocular shot, or I'm going for a body shot specifically, like I have to have precision on that. So there is a level of being dynamic.

Same thing when we shoot and move. You need to be able to draw your blade and hit and move. I think precision is something that probably goes under talked about, but it was exactly like what you're aiming at. And so the thing that gets dynamic about blade work is you could be upside down and backwards because you got a dude that's on top of you or you're in a jiu-jitsu scenario. And it's similar with a pistol too, but the pistol is one directional in a sense of like there's only one way one bullet can come at you in a straight line.

And so that just knowing that itself gives you a level of empowerment when you're actually in a fight, but a blade is very multi-directional in the sense of like it can forward cut, it can back cut, the point's sharp, is it going forward or backward? I mean, just doing this is gonna cut you as opposed to like, if I point the gun right here and just do this, well, nothing happens,

because I'm not pointing it at you. You know, that is the level of effect that you can have with the blade as opposed to the pistol. And so I think the dynamic there is really important, but precision is absolutely key. Knowing where timers are, knowing where switches are. And again, I say all this stuff, and I know sometimes it's tough for me

to articulate some of this because I always approach it from a standpoint of self-defense. I want everybody to know that, that it is all about de-escalating and avoiding these scenarios right from the very beginning. I don't wanna have to use my blade if I don't have to. I don't wanna have to use my pistol if I don't have to. If I'm using them, it's because my life is on the line

or somebody else's life is on the line and I'm trying to get out of there. I'm not doing it overtly to just get a rep in. I wanna do it in a way and I don't wanna understand that level of there. I'm not doing it overtly to just get a rep in. I want to do it in a way and I don't want to understand that level of violence. So if I really need it, I can recall that in the moment that I need it most. Just wanted to say that because some people get wrapped up and they don't understand the full breadth of what combatives and what blade work really exists for.

Well thank you for elaborating. When it came to, when you've had to utilize hand-to-hand stuff, I mean that's, that's obviously very up close, very personal. How did, I mean how would that, how does that affect you versus killing with your, with your firearm, with your rifle, with your sniper rifle, with your pistol versus a blade. Well, I think we're putting our hands on people

more than we ever have before, or maybe not traditionally, but I think from a warfare standpoint, they both are important to understand. And yes, is putting your hands on somebody more intimate in a sense than just pulling the trigger and not really seeing what's going on there. I do think that there's a contrast.

I think you have more to learn. This is my point. I think you have more to learn from the combative scenario than you do pulling the trigger necessarily because in a vacuum like if I have a target and it's moving I'm like, okay now and it's not a threat anymore The hand-to-hand stuff is just much more dynamic in the sense of your balance your weight shifting the right tool to use, how you're using it.

The bullet will stop somebody in their tracks when combatives isn't necessarily that right away. If I choke somebody out, that's probably one of the easiest and fastest ways to get somebody to become compliant and have the result that I want, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm gonna be able

to access that tool right away. He may be fighting for his life, backing up in a corner or trying to hit me with something else or there might be multiple people. So it gets extremely dynamic. So when I say there's a lot to learn more from combatives is because there's just so many different variables. Did he move left or right?

Did I grab him? Was it his wrist? Did I use my blade? Was it a pistol? How did that change? If I grab him? Was it his wrist? Did I use my blade? Was it a pistol? How did that change? If I just slipped one way this way, could have I have avoided gotten clipped in the head? His man jammies got hooked on my nods mount.

Could have I avoided that if I just grabbed all of it and shoved it this way? So there's a lot of thought that goes through my head after the fact of a hand-to-hand confrontation. I really play it out out my mind a lot, like, what could I have done better? Could I have moved this way or could I have done it differently, you know? Any type of psychological effect. I mean, I would imagine, I've not done it.

So, you know, I would imagine the psychological effect that it takes to utilize your blade in a combat scenario would be a lot different than shooting somebody at distance or even up close. I mean, even shooting somebody, you hear the sounds, you hear the moans, you know, it's very real. I can imagine utilizing your blade, I mean, feeling them as they're dying, you know, maybe, maybe you feel blood, but you hear the gurgling, you're there. I mean, is there a certain psychological effect that hit you in the act or afterwards that you don't get with? I think that they're both equal,

because ultimately what it comes down to is what you did just, right? And so that's where faith comes into play. That's where morals and your values come into play. Did I do everything justly? Did I do everything according to what I believe God would want me to do? And that's where we start talking about psychological and spiritual battles because if I'm making just decisions based off of evil that's presenting itself, I don't have an out, I can't do anything about it, and I need

to act now, there's no thinking about that. It's presented to me in a way that is evil. And if I don't take care of the problem, he's gonna kill one of my buddies or kill that little baby that he's holding. So those do not really cause any issues with understanding it. I don't think anybody should. I think that's why developing ourselves pre-battle and knowing our values, knowing our morals, knowing our faith gives us the armor we need to go make the best decision possible and never lose sleep over it again. Because we had to step up.

If evil presents itself right now when I'm driving home and I'm with my family and he doesn't give me an opportunity to love him, then I have to take action to protect what I love the most. And so from a psychological standpoint, if somebody, anybody, me, is making an unjust choice in the moment of battle because they didn't think through it and some things are

the heat of battle, heat of battle of hard to decipher. That's why we need to prepare. I think those are the things that will weigh on us. I think those are the things that will haunt us in a sense, right? And of course, until we reconcile with the fact that we did those things. So psychologically for me, I have no regrets. I have no feelings of anything that I've done that either hasn't already been forgiven by God or that I did right and I know that I was

supposed to do to be put in that position, you know. Was there any hesitation or apprehension to to utilize your blade for the first time? No. No, because you know when you get to the level that we were striving to be at, you're so in tune with what's the appropriate tool for this problem that it's just instinctual. You know, it's not anything that I need to overthink

or underthink. It's like this is the appropriate tool for the situation that's going on and I'm gonna apply it to the best of my ability. And I think that that's the beauty about the beautiful thing about understanding that spectrum of all these tools is that we were put in a very unique situation

to be able to go and actively head towards the target, head towards the bad guy, head towards the gunfire. So being able to rep that out night after night after night after night, I mean, I don't know if Eddie said anything very similar to this, but I forget half of what I've done. Like I'll be sitting there, you know, staring at the wall, you know, sipping on tea or whatever.

I'm like, oh yeah, forgot I did that. And so there's this part of my brain that puts it in its place. I don't really access it unless I need to go learn something there. Good, bad, or indifferent. But at the time when we were exploring these different tactics and you evolve as a warrior, you go in,

you do something, we clear a room, like, man, we could have done that better. So it's the application again and again and again. That's why right now, if we got into a house to house battle or a on foot scenario, like the skills that we have as a military, we would crush anybody because we've been doing it for so long and we understand the attitude and the knowledge of that. But you improve along the way and that's what it was for me. If I had to use my blade or my pistol or my rifle,

it was a learning point and it was, how do I do this better? What could I do next time to escalate or de-escalate depending on the situation, right? Is this a kid that's attacking me? Is this a full-aged male that's attacking me? Is this guy coming at me with a sword? Is this guy have a gun?

And where's my role in this to have a successful outcome of this mission? Are there 10 guys on target? Are there five? Is there one? It all plays a factor in what you're utilizing. Are we still trying to be quiet? Are we still trying to keep the element of surprise? All those things. It's tough because I don't like going too much in the tactics. You know, I don't want to. I totally understand and I'll respect that. The one thing that Eddie did say was,

don't quote me exact on this, but he had mentioned something along the lines of there was so much killing that went on over there that pretty much any way you could think of to kill somebody had been done. Yeah. And I think that goes along with the op tempo that we were at and what we were doing to improve on how we were approaching some of these things is that you talk about them, you talk about utilizing the specific tactic, but I think we got in a mode where we were looking for opportunities that would allow us to use that tactic.

To me, it just means that we were operating every night back to back to back to back in some cases. And so as we grew, and again the threat is, not let anybody forget this, our lives are on the line every single night. We've lost guys in the midst of these battles. We were literally losing dudes one after one after one of our brothers. So we're going into these targets trying to figure out how to be the best that we can be to mitigate these things from happening. Not to mention we're going after bad dudes that are blowing people up and killing innocent people.

So we were going in being like, how do we just reach the fullest version of ourselves in these scenarios and always possible? And when you do that, naturally you have to explore different things that are going to allow you to reach a different potential. You can't grow if you don't try to push a limit here or clear a smaller room with a pistol or get into a hand-to-hand confrontation when you're still trying to be quiet. All of those different elements are, yeah, they just become a part of what you're doing. And I think what did Eddie say?

He was like a kill addict, that's what he said? He did. One of his chapters, I think. Which is a crazy thing. It's hard for me, man. It really is. I'll get emotional if I go into this, but like, mine and Eddie's relationship and like what we did and how we experienced that,

I believe, looking back on it, we were doing things from the right place. We were there for the right reasons. We wanted to be out there doing the right thing and ridding the world of evil. But man, was it intense. At night after night like that, you just become kind of sharpened and also you have to compartmentalize what's going on. It just becomes a part of you. So, yeah, I don't know how to explain that. So yeah, I don't know how to explain that, but. Our friends at ZipRecruiter conducted a recent survey and found that the top hiring challenge

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to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Sean today to get 10% off your first month. That's better help HELP dot com slash Sean. All right Dom, so we're back from the break and basically what I'm doing is I'm going over kind of the departments that you've stood up since you've shown up at Gold Team. So we went over R&D, we went over combatives. The last one that you are taking on is Sniper. And so what I'd like to do is just dig in a little bit on how you developed that skill

coming from the regular SEAL teams into development group and where it went. Yeah. The coolest thing about the sniper, not only did I always want to do it and it was a passion of mine, but at team two, I was able to implement it quite a bit, more than normal. I had my recce guns set up, I had things that I was thinking about doing.

I thought like that, I thought like a recce wood, kind of looking at routes. That took a whole different shape on when I got to the command though. And the idea of being the first on the target, it really excited me. And also knowing where the route was, cause you always hear the guys that,

you know, they're trudging in the back, they don't know where they're going, they're sweating, they're like complaining, and they're just, you know, aggravated. But the guy up front knows what's happening. And I really wanted to get that right as far as taking guys down the right route, going to push in and see if a route was good or not, and then coming back and letting everybody know.

So I kind of really enjoyed the opportunity to be out front with Reki. And I always really appreciated just knowing what was going on, you know, the innovation with the route planning, the innovation with how the technology works and helping us, you know, working with EOD upfront. That was another piece. That was where I got to know Lewis really, really well, was working upfront, you know, working with the bomb detection and, you know,

things that we were looking for on routes. I mean, me and him did a lot of work there. So I think from the standpoint of the command, again, here are these basic things that you need, but now we're going to dive into very specific specialties of this is the type of long range shooting that we're going to do. This is the type of sustainment training we're going to do. Dudes took it seriously. Like I mean, no joke. You're like, whoa, like Ratzloff,

Thomas Ratzloff, rat. He was on the Hilo in Extortion 17. But I can't think of the word Sniper or not think of him. He was immersed into that life, into that way of thinking. Everything he did, it revolved around being a better precision shooter. He was up early, leaving later than everybody else, spent an extra time on the range. He was down talking to guys about ammo types and gun types and platforms and he was just in it. He was the apex of what we all were like, well okay, like if you're gonna get your act together and snipe us off, you're gonna follow this guy. So having really good mentors,

which really is the culmination for anything that we do, we have somebody that we can emulate, and somebody that we can look up to to say, you're reaching a whole nother level of this that I didn't even know existed. And I think that that's what the command was for me as far as a recce standpoint, was that I grew and I really took to,

I was the point man at team two as well, but we didn't really have like a recce element But I always wanted to jump up front if it was ever a volunteer of those are an opportunity I was the number one man thought I was gonna lead, you know So I was always thinking about what does my gun need to be like if I'm gonna be up front You know if you get the classic Vietnam era guys that always had the shotgun You know rolling through the the brush really thick so that if he had something close, he could engage. I thought like that, well, I'm up front, what do I need?

I'm up front, it's going to be different. It's going to be lighter. It's going to be more nimble. I need to be able to climb, move, crawl, get into stuff. I really just embraced that way of thinking. Of course, the last thing that I'll say is that with all the operating that we're doing and the reps that we're getting night after night after night is that a lot of the times it benefited to be up front, getting on target first or climbing. So I knew that was a part of the recce job is that if you were going to be the first

one, you were probably going to be the most, more than likely to get into an engagement. And again, you can't chase it. So there was elements of that. They're like, you know, you miss here, you gain there. But the majority of the time, the recce crew is going to run into people first. And I liked that about that position. Interesting.

You know, I'm starting to see a commonality in the areas of the, the areas of operation that you chose to take part in. And at first it didn't make a whole lot of sense, I'm thinking, all right, he's doing combatives. But he also is really into the sniper stuff. So you want to be the farthest away and the closest. And what I'm picking up is you really, it seems to me you really like to operate in very, very small teams, snipers, very small teams, possibly two, you know, maybe even just one person,

you know, combative, you and another, and another combatant. The, the stuff that you did. I don't wanna name the location at SEAL Team 2 that really interests you with the MI6 course, very individualized. You're talking about clearing homes, clearing buildings with two people. The R&D stuff seems like a very isolated position. Am I wrong on this?

No, I don't think so. I think that there's a nature of, even when you do anything, you only find a couple of people that really, you know, do it well with you or in that operating environment. I think it was more along the lines of just, again, the dynamic of a warrior of realizing, you know, I like putting precision shots where they belong. And it wasn't that I wanted to be far away as a sniper, but it was just the fact that I can shoot better. I have a different mission set. It was really about kind of that ability to hide and sneak and get in. And the combatives aspect is upfront

close in your face. So really, they're two opposite ends of the spectrum. So it's kind of like knowing both of those. I went to preacher school too. Oh, did you? I just wasn't as good as Eddie was. But I knew how to breach. I mean, I would pick up a slideshow or do any of that stuff. It just, I took to the recce more. It just excited me and I wanted to be out front and leading. You know?

Let's move into some of the deployments. And I know this is gonna to be tough on you, but so we've gone through all the departments that you're involved in and your specialties. Let's talk about back to, let's rewind a little bit. We showed up to Gold Team, we talked about the culture a little bit, we talked about what it was like showing up.

Let's talk about your first deployment at Gold Team. How did that? What are some of the things that you saw that were different than your deployments at Seal Team 2? Right away, just the intensity of it and the seriousness of recognizing that you're with guys that have done this for a while and guys that have it pretty dialed in. There's a weight that pushes you, forces you to rise to the occasion where you cannot slack off. You cannot fall back.

You cannot let one detail go missed. You know, like that's the level of precision that you're looking around at these guys that spend all night working on their gear, all night thinking about stuff. So it's a full immersion into this ability to be the best that we can be. And, you know, Eddie and I,

we actually stayed, we're in the same room. I think maybe it was a cross for me. I think we probably would have killed each, we were in the same room. I think maybe it was a cross for me. I think we probably would have killed each other for it in the same room. But we almost threw blows too, a couple of times. But out of love really, at the end of the day, it was just out of silly stuff. But we grew together, but being on that first deployment,

it just really opened my eyes on what a warrior looked like. And I had guys that looked up at the team too, being on deployment with some of these dudes, we're all like, okay, this guy knows what he's doing. This guy, a couple of guys had marks on their guns that were running out of space already. So I'm looking at these things like, okay, this is legit. So I think it's just the level of intensity and seriousness that was put to it. Of course, we always find a way to make things lighthearted and relax a little bit while on deployments.

But I think that's the first thing that I remember. And just the op tempo, where it felt like every night, every other night is what it was. And when we would get shut down for a couple of days for whatever reason, it would feel like an eternity. Three days felt like forever. We're always kind of on edge in a good way too, but when are we going?

Because you're always on the call. You're always waiting for that call to go off. And so knowing that every night was a possibility, it just puts you in a different level. I think that that's why it's good that we're out and back so quick. So that is just the intensity of the first deployment and, you know, growing in that situation. Hendo, which really, really great mentor of mine, one of the best fighters that I know I Jumped into the mat room right away on deployment and I got to spar with him and the first time I sparred with him Within about a week of being on deployment

Popping right in the nose like blood everywhere like as soon as I got in the ring was there bam I'm like, okay. This is how fighting looks at this level. You know, these guys take this seriously. So it forced me to be accountable to be like, I gotta get my act together here. And that's kind of why I took combative so seriously is I had a great mentor. I had somebody that really cared about being the best that could be with hands on stuff.

And every situation was kind of like that. You know, you walked into this environment and then you would get punched in the nose and start bleeding, realizing like, this is real, I got to step up. Everything forces you to level up when you're around that type of precision and excellence. I think that that's what the first deployment showed me. This is what you should expect, this and more of what guys are capable of. How long was the deployment?

I mean, they range from one you know, one to four months. One to four months? Yeah, just depending on what it was, where it was. And literally sitting here thinking I'd have to like go back and look like I even forget like how many deployments, like short ones, long ones, back to back to back. They just, they happen really, really quick, quick, quick turnarounds. I think the timelines have since changed a little bit, but again, that's stuff that I'm like, whatever, whatever it is, now it is. What was the, what were some of the

missions? What was the objective? Well, we're good at direct actions. I mean, everything kind of surrounded that. There was some specialty stuff in between, but the majority of it was mounting up to go hit a target, capture, kill. That was the name of the game. You know, I always said kill, capture in my brain because I'm thinking I might have to kill you and then if you don't need me to, then I might have to kill you. And then if you don't need me to, then I'm gonna capture you. So that was the thread throughout the entire time.

It was that that was always on the table and understanding what's the threat gonna be. Scariest environment imaginable is always what we laughed and joked about, about going out the door. Like it's gonna be the scariest and worst thing possible. That's what you visualize. That way I'm up here ready for it.

And then when I confront it or actually hit the reality, it's not as bad as I was making it out to be. And you do that intentionally. It's like swinging two bats before you go onto the plate. You're swinging heavy, heavy weight so that when you go up, when the reality one is a lot lighter and you're doing it a lot faster. So I think that I carried that idea all the way through But there's really just kicking indoors and in different ways again and again and again our our tactics and our

Ability to evolve was almost instantaneous Like we would come up with stuff on the fly, you know, and me and Eddie, I always say me and Eddie, because it's just really easy to relate to, but me and Eddie would just look at each other in the nods and be like, that worked. Like we're gonna do that next time.

We would talk about it afterwards and be like, hey, that was awesome, let's do that again. Breaching, I mean, man, Eddie pioneered like several different tactics, like right in front of my eyes, you know, that people weren't doing, weren't thinking about, weren't implementing. And Eddie was just like, in front of my eyes, that people weren't doing, weren't thinking about, weren't implementing, and it was just like,

I'm gonna try this, and then it would be an amazing thing that other guys would do throughout their time. And so it's almost like we were part of this pioneering earlier on, as well as these things evolving as the enemy kind of changed like an amoeba, so did we. And we were kind of just staying on their heels, always trying to not let them get too far out ahead of whatever their tactics were. Houseborn IEDs, their direct action tactics,

lot of little weird nuances that would just pop up out of nowhere, then it would be a thing, and then it would go away. One of, one of those examples, in fact, and again, I'll bounce around from deployment to deployment. I don't, I have a hard time keeping idea, like very systematically saying which ones were which, but when Mike and Nate were killed, we knew that the guys at some point knew there was like a phase line, they knew we were there.

And so what they would do is that they would take a AK, they would spray the AK, I think one mag, and then flip it and then do another mag, and then they would run at us and blow themselves up. So it was like this very violent, they would all do it together, they would burst the ammo and then run and try to take somebody with them. And it got to the point where that almost got sort of comical

because we knew it was going to happen. We kind of predicted it like, oh, watch this, we'll back up a little bit. OK, there goes the first one. And then, you know, so it in a sense, right? That's kind of like the sentiment that happened a couple of times. But at the same time, you know, some of their tactics, we had to learn the hard way, you know, about what they did and what they implemented. But we would change very rapidly and stay above that.

So a lot of learning was going on. What would be an example of one of their tactics that you had to learn the hard way on? Uh, probably... Okay, I always have a tough time because I don't want to navigate down a road that puts anybody at risk, but I think... Stuff they were doing inside of the building internally with house-born IEDs. Okay. I think that's one that's pretty obvious to the world.

These guys are cowards. They are cowards. They don't want to come out and fight. Most of them will just find a way out of it. I think the house-born IED was one that we, you know, it's like, what do you do if the house is rigged and you go in and clear that structure? You know, you just have to continue to assault unless you see something. And that's why we spent so much time in that. But that's how we lost Lewis. You know, we lost Lewis in

a house-born IED. That was one thing, we were like, okay, well, obviously we have to take that into consideration. Was that your first loss that really hit you? I mean, it was definitely the closest loss ever for me in a lot of ways, because he was like my best friend, you know? But I would say, yeah, it wasn't the first. There was multiple before. We had lost Adam. We had lost, I'm sorry, Adam was after the fact, we lost Mike and Nate.

And Mike and Nate were like three days before. So that was already like a punch to the gut. We're already kind of in that mode of like, okay, what do we do to kind of pull ourselves forward and think about this and process it. And then it was like three days later, Lewis was killed. Do you want to go into that at all? Where do you want to leave it? Yeah, no, I mean, I will for sure.

It definitely changed my life, you know, Lewis specifically, and just getting that intimate with somebody and having them, you know, Eddie obviously I think talked about this as well, because Eddie and me, Eddie and Lewis were like the three man team that we just had so much fun together, so effective. It wasn't even like Lewis was an EOD guy, you know, he was like another team guy to us, you know, he was just so intertwined with our abilities. In some cases, he could out-shoot us.

But that night where that tactic kind of bit us was that we were up on this structure. And I was actually off on the outside perimeter and Eddie and him were up close. And it was funny, because Eddie, Lewis was gonna flex where he needed to go, whether it was with Alpha or Bravo. And then Eddie got pulled in because he was a breacher. So I was on the outside perimeter

with where typically Eddie would be, but he got pulled in there because he had something specific that he was up to. And then as they were on the edge, there was a little bit of back and forth with what happened with the guys inside. And I think they knew the gig was up at that point. And I think somebody had tossed a frag in the door

and it didn't even have a chance to go off. It was like they knew, and that's when the house came down. And when they pulled back, you know, Lewis was right there on the corner. And you know, that, I heard it. I heard the explosion. And immediately we were like right into action. We started moving towards the opening of the compound.

And I just remember coming around the corner and just seeing just, I mean, it was like, it was like a building came down, you know, people are mangled, there's dust everywhere. It was just like, I just saw this house and this structure and now it's all in, you know, a pile of concrete. And when the first thing I came up on was the dog. I came up on Diego and man, that little, you know, he was like, I went to grab onto him and help him out. And he tried to bite me. And of course he just got a building that fell on him. So I don't blame him for that.

But it was like, as I was trying to help him, he's trying to bite me. I'm trying to pull his legs out. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna come back to you. I'm gonna try to see if any of the guys need help. And so I helped up Benito and he lost both of his femurs, clean break, both femurs, done. He couldn't even stand up. And as I'm kind of assessing all these guys, they're just all pulling rocks off of them and trying to dust themselves off and figure out what the heck happened. And I'm kind of like looking into their eyes, like, okay, is he all right?

He looks a little banged up. He's moving. Benito was the worst in that scenario. He was screaming. And I'm trying to just assess, right? There's so much going on. And I was also thinking, okay, is there a secondary device that could go off? For whatever reason, the hair was standing up on the back of my neck.

That could be an option. And I had seen these wires moving all the way through and I had stopped to be like, is this possible that there's something else rigged up here that we're not seeing? And that made me pause for 15. And that felt like an eternity. Cause I was trying to look, obviously this building just came down. And then right after I kind of had that pause, I was like, where's Lewis?

I was like, where is he? I'm like, I don't see him anywhere here. And I looked left and I looked right. And I was just like, where's Lewis? And I started yelling, you know, like, where is he? And then I went into the corner and I think Eddie had like grabbed onto me and then like he was right here.

And then we both started to try to look, you know, in that area. But the, everyone was just chaos, right? So everybody's trying to figure it out. And at that point, you know, because we didn't see him, we're like, well, is he underneath, you know, the rubble? And me and one of the newer guys, which was an augment,

we were looking underneath and we both pretty much spotted him at the same time. And I'm just thinking, help my buddy. Help my buddy. What can I do to help him? And we eventually tried to pull him out. There was a little bit of a gap there. And obviously, it wasn't doing anything. So we had a guy that had equipment that was able to actually like lift up the entire

first floor ceiling, which was like that thick. I mean, it was crazy thick. We even tried getting on it and like moving stuff around, which like we had to try. Right. We had to at least try to do something. We were kind of shifting all the options as we were communicating with everybody with what was going on. And eventually we're able to get them out. And we were just doing the assessment on them, the dock was on them. And we were trying to just do everything we could to, you know, give them all the support

we possibly could in that scenario, not knowing exactly what the extent of the damage was. And at that point, we were like, all right, we got to get them on a healer and we started calling all the life flights and everything. And it was almost like a blur after that, honestly. I know we got them on a stretcher and we got them on the healer. And I'm praying that something

that I got some type of feedback. So he took off on the Hilo and it was kind of like just continuous prayer there as we kind of unclustered everybody else, got everybody loaded up in the vehicles, and then it was just waiting for an update, trying to get some type of clarity on what happened. clarity on what happened. And I'd say that probably the toughest moment was, you know, being in there after the fact. And it was kind of like a semi debrief, but not really because, you know, we had understood

the way we're just trying to do everything we can to support all the guys that were having to be pushed to the hospital. But when we got word back that he didn't make it, I wanna say that I just went out and dropped my knees. I'm sorry, Dom. Yeah. But there's beauty that comes from all of it. I mean, every single bit of it is just going through that intimate battle, the friendship, you start to understand what brotherhood is

and that loss is just impacts you in a different way. And anybody that's experienced loss in any way knows the way to that, especially for somebody that they care about. And it was a lot of weight on me, just to think about that, you know, crushed Eddie, crushed all the guys. I mean, what didn't make it easy.

I mean, it was a really tough few days after Mike and Nate just died and then we lost Louis. You know, there was a lot of moments where we leaned on each other heavily. A lot of tears shed, you know, there was a lot of moments where we leaned on each other heavily. A lot of tears shed around the fire and just trying to reconcile with what happened. But also building up in ourselves like this is why we need to continue to do this because there's bad guys out there that want to do bad things to people. Then we've got to be that shield.

We've got to be willing to stand in the breach. And we all knew that. Lewis knew that, I knew that, we all do. Everybody that lost their life did. Everybody on Extortion 17 did. And it's that confrontation to it, but it's also supporting each other in that moment. And eventually I was, you know,

he, they told us and gave us the notification, but I ended up taking him home. You know, I ended up getting on the angel flight back with him, so it was me and him the whole time. So tough to talk about this when you're in it, right? And these experiences, but the one thing that I told him, and these experiences. But the one thing that I told him, and that was important to me, was because he loved freediving and spear fishing. That was like his one thing that I could tell you.

To the grave, he would have done it. And he taught me a lot. He was actually using me as like his training dummy in Iraq when we were over there and I would go retrieve the weight on the bottom and pull from him and he'd laugh at me because I'm trying to pull this 45 pound weight back up. But he did a lot of freediving and he taught me a lot about breath holding. And we talked about all the spear fishing we were going to do. And when I was with him at that last moment before we left country, I made a vow to him. I was like, hey man, I was like, I'm gonna take up spear fishing and free diving.

And it was something that was on his heart so heavily. So I kind of pulled that into my life and it kind of became a part of me. And so today, even if anybody ever hears me talk about spear fishing or free diving or any of that, it's because of him. And there's a lot of beauty that's come from it. I've met so many people along the way because of that journey.

And it's like, okay, Louis, well, you obviously orchestrated this. But then took him back home, brought him back to Miami and then went through that whole process. That was really difficult obviously to be around his family. But the beautiful thing that happens now is we do a yearly dive out in Miami, and we go on our every single year without fail.

We're hearing out with his parents, we go to church, we go to a mass that's dedicated to him every year, and it's really cool to do. And Jamie, that's near and dear to my heart, she was with Lewis when he passed away, and we keep great comms, and we always just, that's like the pinnacle of the year for us to go down. It's coming up, by the way, so February, it's going to be coming up here soon, but we get out there and honor him, and it's just a beautiful the way, so February it's gonna be coming up here soon, but we get out there and honor him,

and it's just a beautiful moment. There's a lot of things like coming from that dive to get down there where we put his ashes and kind of honoring him. That's why, again, honor is so important to me about living this life and doing right by him in the way that would be good, but that was definitely the toughest for me,

was losing Lewis because we were so close. We became such great friends so quickly and we just, yeah, we were sparring partners, worked out together, but yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. You know, I know his wife is a avid listener and viewer

and I know his wife is a avid listener and viewer. And, um... Do you have anything you'd like to say to her? Just that... I love her. I think anytime that we think we're tough, you know, or, you know, we have something we're dealing with that's tough, I always, always use her to remind myself how tough they had to be in a lot of those moments. And even still to this day, not like it gets any easier, but just that I probably look to her for more strength than I think she realizes, but you know, that's the part of understanding brotherhood and the weight of it is that we gain so much even

though they're gone. And God will work in that way. You know, even with Jamie and I and other relationships and other people, and if anybody listening has lost anybody, God brings other people together through that loss. And I think that that's what we all have to have faith in, and that's the beauty of it as well. As difficult as it is, there's for a reason.

So, you know, she definitely has done that for me. You commemorate your comrades in a very honorable way and continue to do so. You know, I don't, everybody copes in their own way and relives the memories, but have them, you know, watch it from a distance for a long time and the way you commemorate Adam and honor Lewis

and extortion, I mean, it's cumbersome, extortion, I mean, it's cumbersome, but in a, I like saying it is what I'm trying to say. You do a, you do it with a lot of honor and a lot of respect and it's just nice to see. I definitely try. You know, I really do because it's their life, you know. When I was going through that process after the fact, you know, when you see so many different people that are left behind, you're like, man, what needs to be filled in their lives? Nothing will be, but ultimately,

what are they missing and what do they need? And when you see young daughters and sons left behind and wives, it hits you in a different way to be like, man, that's where a lot of like seeking all this of like, Lord, what is my why? Why are we here? You know, why this? Like what's supposed to come of this?

And I couldn't help but to hear that voice in my head and throughout the time of being at all those funerals to be like, you've got to step up and honor their life with everything that you've got, willing literally being willing to lay down your life to live in their shoes and honor them. And I did it as much as I possibly could. And I'll never forget, you know, when we were on a plane and we were coming back from one of the funerals of Extortion 17. One of the widows that had lost somebody, I looked at and I said, this was actually

another widow that was previous to Extortion. It happened before. And so we were like, hey, listen, we're always gonna be here for you. And she was like, yeah, that's what everybody on the Hilo told me. And so the weight of that comment was like, are we really doing a good enough job

as a community and as a brotherhood to make sure that these families have what they need? And it will never be enough, you know, all the way through time and warriors and battle and war. It will never be enough, ever. There's no way we could ever repay or give back what we should be doing for the children that don't have these fathers, should be doing for the children that don't have these fathers, that raise their hand at an early age. But I think we need to try. And I certainly think we need to recognize comments like that.

How does our culture, and I think we've done a good job. And a lot of it's starting to slip away with the generational growth here. But I think we've done a decent job at looking at our history and looking at our leadership over time saying, hey, these were important moments in history. These are really important people that we need to recognize and memorialize because of their acts and their efforts.

And we have to make sure that we have a duty and an accountability to that as citizens, as veterans, especially if you know somebody that has been lost. What are you doing on a yearly basis, a monthly basis, a daily basis to live out a life that is going to teach somebody else about what they stood for? That's really important. If we forget about how we got here, then you don't actually appreciate the freedom that you have.

This has all been purposefully driven. I mean, I was with my boy in the gym this morning, honor and Lewis. We picked the honor workout today. We were like, what are we gonna do? Like, what we gotta do, Lewis? You know, it was literally this morning. So teaching my boy that too,

like the whole way through the movements. I'm like, hey bud, like think about how awesome he was. You know, think about his cinnamon skin and dark hair and big heart and huge smile. And you know, like bring that to the present because that's really what Memorial is. It's bringing what was to the right now. And you know, things like Halloween,

which we just had, you know, all Hallows Eve, all Souls Day, all Saints Day, right? The fact that we as a church memorialize the dead is so critically important that literally at the dinner table, you know, we are talking about our previous family that's not here. They've been lifted up and how are we memorializing them to remember our family, our veterans, our friends. We don't do that enough. We don't absolutely do that enough. I agree with that.

So anyway, my point, just my point is, is that we got to do a great job of honoring. Honor is not a word I take lightly, you know, to be honorable, to live an honorable life, to really live out each day, because you have to, your beliefs and everything that you're living for take root and they culminate in who you are.

So if honor is a part of that, the value of your life will go through the roof if you actually appreciate how you got there. And for me, that's the experience that I've had with Lewis, Mike, Nate, all the guys on the Hilo, everybody from the time that I got in, they gave me something, they gave me a gift. They gave me a gift of recognizing how precious,

how awesome, how beautiful this life is, and how fast it can be taken away from you. So it was like an awakening. And a lot of senses, I didn't expect to be here. I really didn't. I think Eddie can probably say the same thing if he hasn't said it one way or another, because we were so close.

It's hard not to talk about Eddie talking about this stuff because we went through so many of the same doors being like, you know, like, didn't know if we were going to come out of that one. But it's almost like we shouldn't be here. So every day is a gift. And what we do with that gift is critically important. And that's anybody listening. You know, if we're still breathing, there's a purpose for it.

And hopefully we're honoring those who have gone before us with our lives. Yeah. Yeah. Did your son know him? My son did not know him. He didn't? No, Lewis was supposed to be in my wedding with my wife on that, coming home from that deployment.

And so we didn't even have children yet. We were, it was 08, so I still am a born, uh, 09. Year after. They know, they know him now as much as, you know, they didn't meet him in person, obviously, but we try to do our best. Well, God bless him. Yeah, for sure Let's talk about your relationship with Adam Brown and How that kind of started obviously it started in sniper school back at SEAL team two it sounds like but how did it develop?

Well getting to go through green team with him obviously we started to work together More and more and you know we were sparring together, fighting together. One of the cool things that we really did was we did some R&D stuff together. So we actually went and developed. We worked with Arcterics. We worked with a couple of different companies to develop some layering systems. Me and Adam did a lot of waterproof bags together. So we actually worked on a few projects that still to this day I have relationships with.

I'm like, oh yeah, I remember us meeting with Adam and he liked that stuff too. He was very much an R&D gear guy. And if I look at Adam, that wasn't so much from the standpoint that I think that he really wanted to tweak the gear as it was him wanting to take care of the guys. Like genuinely, I could probably say selfishly I was more interested in doing the gear when he was like,

I genuinely just want to pour my heart out into this because I know it's going to make the guys better. And that was who Adam was. And I learned a lot of that through him. And again, that brotherly correction that Adam had no problem talking about. There's more situations and scenarios that I can count that we were walking through the hallway and he would bump into me. And I think this started in sniper school, but I would always give him a hard time. Like, what side am I on? Am I on your right? Your good side or your bad side?

You know, then I got to the point where I was going out on the hallway and actually nudging him on purpose. Like, dude, why are you running to me? And we were just laughing off those, kind of like, you know, a thing between us. And he just poured his heart out. I've gone a couple of dinners with his wife and him and he talked about his children. That was something that marks him. And now looking back at it, like, like, oh, well, of course Christ was a part of your life.

You had the love that you knew you needed to apply to your children. That's why they got brought up. Or even somebody that really doesn't mean much to, you could tell there was something different there about why he did it, what he talked about. You know, there was instances, I was like, hey, Adam, we're going to the bar.

He's like, dude, I got a ball game with my son, I gotta go too. You know, or he would be like, I'm doing something else with my children. And at the time, you're like, yeah, but brotherhood, all these things, this is important. Like, let's go. And there was a sense of almost irritation.

And I can't say that I like overtly got irritated with him, but that was the feeling with anybody, right? Oh, I got this other thing to do. But that's not what we're doing. And we're a brotherhood and we're a gang and we stick together no matter what. And that, I think, to a fault. And because we don't stick to big biblical principles,

because we don't get in the word every day, because we don't recognize the love of Christ in our life, we veer away from the truth of what we're supposed to be doing and it kind of creeps in, but he had it. It was already there, it was already a spark in him. That was already in him. And so now the beauty of that now for me looking back is like, oh, of course, that's why.

Very strong and he was even bringing guys to the faith. You know, he was bringing guys, Kevin Houston was one of those dudes, you know, Juicy. You know, Juicy and I did a lot together on gear development and working together and, you know, I was with all of those guys beforehand on the Hilo aspect because I was actually there. I wasn't on the up with Adam, but I was on the same location that he was when Adam was killed. And I was actually going out with those guys

every night or every other night that I could because I was working in a different station. So I was working there next to them. I would get on when I could, developed a really good relationship with all of the guys. And I was actually supposed to go on that op that night. Really? Yep, I was supposed to go.

I was teeter-tottering between two difference. It was the guys, it was the boys, and this other thing. And that was a cool part of where I was at, but it was also difficult and challenging. So I was waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. And then finally I was told we're not going. I had all my kit ready to go. My gun was ready to go.

And I had been hitting the guys up saying, hey, are you still good? Yeah, we're still good. You still can still come on. We've got space for you. And then I jumped in my truck and I went as fast as I possibly could to get to the airstrip. And I was hauling and I got to the gate

and I turn around the corner and the Chinook was going bup, bup, bup, bup, bup, just lifted. And I'm like, oh, I wanna go out with the guys, you know? And so I ended up watching that, you know, and listening to that op the whole night through the radio. That's why when I heard when the ego was down, I didn't know exactly what was going on, but I was trying to figure out like, who was it?

Who was it? Who was it? You want to know? And then when they had gotten back in, and I was already on the runway when they were getting right on land, I was already there. So I pulled the truck up to the heel. And I remember getting out,

talking to Craig Vickers right away, trying to figure out. So I pulled the truck up to the Hilo. And I remember getting out, talking to Craig Vickers right away, trying to figure out. So I pulled the truck up. I didn't actually back up to the Hilo yet. They all got out. And I remember Craig Vickers came right up to me. He's like, dude, I got shot in the arm. And he like looked at me and he showed me

the hole in his arm. And I like grabbed him like, you all right? He's like, I'm fine. You know? He's like, cool, all right. And I was like, because I knew somebody was down and it was Adam and just trying to figure out what are you doing that scenario?

That's what we're all trying to figure out. I think the, the healer was powering down and I eventually pulled the truck up and helped, you know, get Adam out and yeah, just, you know, other experience. You know, I don't know if I'll get another opportunity to interview somebody that was close to him. And so, would you like to describe what you know about what happened that night? Yeah, he was a go-getter.

And I know you know that. He would always put himself in positions that were not always the best ones to protect and to help everybody else and that was one of those nights and And the guys were above a room, and they were above a structure that was getting shot through. And I think that that's when Craig got hit in the arm. And so Adam jumped into action and tried to basically flank wherever that position was.

And in pure Adam Brown fashion, I think he like shimmied up a tree and like wedged himself between a tree and a wall and tried to get in the best position possible to get an angle in there. And right at the time that he was getting to the top of his position somebody came out and just sprayed the wall and he got hit right in the side. So I wouldn't have expected anything less from him to try to find the one spot that you could shimmy up and try to get an angle on. But that was ultimately what happened. And again, it's tough doing this and recording this because there are a lot of nuances to what's going on and I want to be very clear about that. There's a lot that I'm not explaining,

so don't just take that at face value no matter who you are listening to this. There's so much that goes along with these things. So I know that you were close to Adam and I think it is important for people to understand that. But what I want people to leave with is the fact that he was like, I'm gonna try to help my brothers. I'm gonna try to get in the best position possible and I'm gonna go and do what I need to do.

And that's exactly what he did. And he went out fighting. And yeah, that's what he did with everything in his life. He's like, where can I ambush the bad guy? Where can I go out in front of everybody else and try to get in the best position possible? How was he sent off? As far as...

Loading him down. What do you mean? I mean, did you fly home with him? Was there... Oh, yeah, so... What does the team do? Well, I mean, it's kind of similar to what happened with Lewis is that there's always an angel flight, right?

There's always somebody that does escort him back. And, you know, at that point where, you know, we got him off the healer, we were able to, you know, sit down and just as brothers, be present with what was going on. You know, what happens when you lose a warrior right in your midst. And we all just went around, you know, talking about the good and the righteous

and impactful and the person that we knew Adam was. And so it was a very powerful moment for all of us to reflect on who we knew him to be. And it was, again, how do you honor a warrior in the highest degree at such a time? And this is why I always look back and I talk about my faith so much

because I wish I had that level of faith then. Because what we can do to help each other faithfully, even guys that are lost or confused or not even understanding why this is happening, we put our trust in what God's plan is. And I know wholeheartedly that's what he did. He had that level of faith. And if I shared that with him or anybody else at that moment, we

know that all of these things happen for a very important reason. And after we got done, you know, doing that as a brotherhood, you know, at that point, you know, they did what and ultimately he was escorted home. How fast after you have a loss are you guys back out? I mean, it's immediate. I don't think that we, I don't think that that really, you know, a day, you know, maybe a couple of days and again, things do get gray after that point, but Mike and Nate was a good example. You know, we lost Mike and Nate on the fifth and we were right back out three days later. And so if something popped its head up, you up, you also have to understand like we're going

after the same guys that are doing things bad. They're the ones that caused the issue because they're bad. And again, if people weren't bad, then we would have gone in there and we'd have a conversation with them and we'd say, oh, we're at the wrong house. Have a good night. But when they're bad, they're either we either catch them in the act and or they're planning

on their next evil act. So I think it's just a matter of what is necessary and what's needed. As tough as it is, that's why it's important to be able to focus even in those moments. You know, it does suck, but once it's time to get up and go, it's like life. You know, are we gonna spend time,

are we gonna spend too long, you know, sitting here contemplating what happened without really living and without really getting up and keep moving forward. I think that's the key for anybody with any loss is that you've got to keep moving. Whoever died didn't want you sitting around doing nothing either, you know, and so we have to embrace that idea of like how do we use their life to the best of our ability and get right back in the fight just like we did overseas, you know, it's kind of easy to take stuff that's overseas and say that it is that, but I want to convey to everybody

that it's the same right here, wherever they're at in their life now. You've got to keep moving forward. You've got to keep taking a step because that's when you start revealing, you know, the truth about how you're going to handle the situation, who you are the truth about how you're going to handle the situation, who you are through it, how you're going to make your life better because of it and what beauty comes of that. That's what we should all be seeking. We definitely can't sit around too long and stare at the wall and feel sorry for ourselves. Did loss motivate you even more to go do the job?

I wouldn't say the loss motivated me more to do the job. I mean, it kind of was what it was. I didn't get any more vengeful or upset or anything like that because I lost buddies. It was a very matter of fact. We chose to do this. We're here. It sucks. We all know the risk.

It can happen to any one of us. There are evil guys and bad guys out there we need to continue to go get, you know? And it didn't push me to a vengeful point, but it did weigh on me at least of the weight of what we're doing more each time, you know? And how much the risk was. So every time I came home. I was like man

I was a blessing to be here. It's a blessing to be home, you know Let's move on to extortion The big one biggest loss in seal team history Biggest loss in the war on terror period. Which is crazy to think about, you know. There was a lot to be learned from that experience. And the one thing I will say is that it impacted their culture too, because I recognized even in myself,

I was like, what does it take to actually honor these men? What does it take for people to open their eyes to honor these men? In this instance, in some cases, I would say a lot of scenarios where people popped up out of the woodwork and like, well, I had no idea what went into this, like how many guys we lost. That changed me.

That changed the way I thought about what you guys are doing. I think it did that on a certain level for everybody involved and everybody that kind of knew about the experience is it kind of hit in a different way about what guys are doing and what they're really risking. And Extortion 17 was very unique for me because of the fact that I was supposed to be on that deployment

and I was supposed to be over there with our crew. Now we were in different teams and that, you know, I was in troop one and I was troop two. So wherever we would have been, we would have been apart. But I would have been over there. I stayed home because my mother had just found out she had cancer. And so for me, and you know this, like not going on deployment makes no sense. It was like we would have done everything we possibly

could to stay with the guys to go. Like everything else was foreign to me, no matter how bad it got. And so when my mom initially told me that, I'm like, oh, okay, well, you're going to be good, right? Like, going to get treatment or whatever and kind of like handling it in a way that was just trying to figure out, okay, I'm going to deploy, but then I'm going to be back. And then when I'm back, obviously we'll do whatever we need to do to help take care of you. And that was the mindset I was in initially. And this is important to explain just because of where I was personally and maybe it helped

somebody gain some perspective. That's why I talk about all this stuff, by the way, is just hopefully it gains some perspective for somebody and somebody gains strength out of it. When I found out about my mom, I kind of had multiple conversations with her. She was a nurse and I was like, mom, how serious is this? She's like, yeah, it's the first couple of times. She's like, it's not that big of a deal. We're going to work through it.

I don't know. We'll be okay. Ask her again. She's like, eh, you know, it seems like something that we need to at least keep an eye on. So the conversation's got more serious and more serious. And then I started to have to really make the decision, like am I going on deployment or not? Because I wanna be able to help my mother

if she really needs me. Of course I wanna be able to help my mother if I think that there's a possibility I might never see her again. So there was one time I asked her, and I kept asking her in different ways. She was a nurse, she was trying to like, you know, dance around the issue. I was like, Mom, are you going to be okay?

And she looked at me and she's like, I don't know. And I'm like, okay, I know now that I probably should be home with you, helping you and taking care of you. And you can kind of see she was starting to decline a little bit through that process. And it was fast. And it was like, whoa, what is going on? I have never not deployed before. My mom's sick.

So what do I do here? You know, what's the process that I do? And it was very, it's probably one of the most challenging things, at least professionally, that I've had to do is look the guys in the eye and say, hey guys, like I'm not going to deploy. Like I think being home to take care of my mom is more important. I think, because when you're at that level,

it's hard to understand. I think it's gotten better now, but even still when you're in that type of brotherhood, it's kind of like, oh, you're not coming with us? Okay, and who knows really how my mom is? I'm still trying to figure it out. You know, I think there was one dude that came up to me and said, you're making a really good decision.

You'll never forget the time that you took to go take care of your mother. And everybody else kind of, you know, turned their shoulder to me a little bit. And that's what happens sometimes in the teams is that, you know, guys tend to be very cold about some of those decisions that are made just because you're the one staying back. And so it was a tough choice.

But as I started to help my mom, I started to realize very quickly that I made the right choice because she was starting to decline pretty fast. And so I was home going back and forth between New England and Virginia, trying to spend as much time with her as I could. And then when she started to get really bad is when I started to be like, okay, I'm gonna spend the majority of my time up there helping her, taking her visits,

helping her at bedside, whatever I really needed to do to help my mom. And my brother stepped up too. My brother, Brian, was like huge, huge helping that as well as young as he was. And I want to say it was like 17 or 18 or something. So he's just, you know, figuring things out. And I was living with my mother. And so we were both trying to do our best to figure this out. First time this ever happening, really administering to her. And I knew in my heart that I should be doing everything that I can for her because I'll never regret that.

You know, I'll never regret trying to be there for her and support her all the way up until the end. And so there was at some point realizing that this was not going to end well, but I had still been up there and then I was up in New England and I apologize if I ever get this wrong or conflicts with other things that I've said because sometimes it's hard for me to keep my stuff straight in this moment it was a huge blur when I look back on it and there is a part of me that does compartmentalize a lot of it. But I was up in New England and I had

gone home for a visit. And I believe at that point, I was like, I was like a day that I wasn't even there for a half a day and found out that something had happened. You know, and it was like the longest drive of my life going into the command, not knowing what healer it was or who it was.

You know, just hearing something happen, hoping that I'm gonna get to the command and that they're gonna tell me like, it was a bad crash and everybody's fine and you know, it's all good. And so as soon as I got that information, I was literally, I believe it was probably like three or four o'clock at night.

I don't know, it was early in the morning. And so I drove in like not even really like in my brain, like just wanting to turn around like, oh, this isn't real, like just, this didn't really happen. And I was one of the only ones home from gold. I was one of the only guys, I think there was one other dude there. And the other guy was back because,

well, I'll try to remember that in a second. He had to come back because his child was being born. If I forget, let me remind me to bring that back up. But when I got there and it was chaos, it was absolute chaos. As organized as a tier one unit can be about handling a situation, it was chaos. And I felt like I was having an out of body experience because I see all these names on the board and everything going on and everybody moving around and talking about everything. Man, it's hard to have to get emotional about this stuff. But you know, I'm seeing all my brother's names pop up on the board. You know?

And I'm just like walking through this time and space like in slow motion. You know, while everybody else is, and I get it, they're all stepping up and they want to help and they want to do something to make a difference. You know, but being so closely connected to those guys was like, what is happening right now? And I remember walking in the room and literally coming down the aisle and then coming to the desk and sitting down at like the second seat over. And one of the first questions somebody asked me because I believe they had a section that was kind of dedicated to the people that were close to them or knew

them or something. You know, that's kind of why I went in there. And I remember one of the first questions that somebody asked me of, no idea who it was. And they came up to me in like a very matter of fact way, like, hey, you just need, here's the list. You need to figure out who you're gonna go notify. And so like I had this whole list of 17 of these dudes that I knew that I'm like,

I have to choose, you know, whose door to knock on. So that moment like crushed me. I probably stared at the paper for an hour, felt like an hour anyway, cause I'm sitting there thinking to myself, I'm like, what do I do? Like, how do I pick somebody? You know, like all these guys meant something to me.

So in the moment, that was so heavy. And then it became a blur after that about the notifications and having to knock on the door and going through that process of just watching the impact. And then all that being said, as I'm going through that process, because there's so much to unpack in here, and I'm trying to just give you at least a general idea of the experience,

is I kind of figured right away, like, well, I need to get back overseas right now. I was like, I gotta do this. And so I believe that somewhere in the middle of there, and dude, I'm serious, at some point I probably should write all this stuff down to figure out where I was at in time and space because it's really hard to keep it together. But at some point, I told my mom, and I believe I flew back up there to take care of her, like right as all this was kind of getting organized

and let her know what's going on. And I looked there and I said, mom, I was like, I'm gonna go back overseas. I need to be there with the guys that we just lost a bunch of dudes. And she looked at me and she's like, okay, go ahead. And so I kind of felt like I had got the blessing, even though it was a very odd thing to do.

Like I stayed back home for her, she's not doing great. I want to go overseas to help. And so I made a phone call overseas, and said, hey, bros, I'm coming. And I remember some of the leadership was like, oh, thank goodness, we were hoping that you were going to be over here. And I'm not going to speculate

with what the sentiment was there or whatever the case was. I tried my best not to speculate, but I made the phone call to go back. And so I had gone back to Virginia in a short amount of time. So I started packing my bags. I think I had my last bag packed. And then I got a phone call and basically said, you know, your mom's not doing so good. You got to get back up here. So I jumped back on a plane and I went back home.

And then within about 48 hours of that, my mom passed away. But I got to be at least with her through that process. You know, my brother was there, the family was there, be it by her side. And then after that, and knowing that I had to be there for her, you know, I had to be there for her, I was going through funeral after funeral after funeral, my mom and then basically every single funeral

that I could possibly make for the guys. I don't know if I missed any. I think I might have missed one or two, but I was just on plane after plane after car drive. It was so crazy to like even contemplate like how it was, but it was, I mean, I was just in a, I was in an out of body, like just very out of myself type of feeling.

So that, that was difficult. And then even after that, I was still home to help with all of the logistical stuff of what was what back home. Even having to move their gear and do stuff with their equipment and understanding how to reconcile all the stuff that was going on and be there for the families and everything else. It was just a lot, a really, really short amount of time. I think ultimately from all that, why God has allowed me to experience those things

is to understand that His grace is in glory or abundant through all of the pain. All of it is used for the greater glory of his name, like all of it. And so that's really what's driven me back also in the midst of this, my faith, me sitting there, going to funerals, being in these churches, like asking myself, like, why?

Like, why now? And then what am I supposed to do with this? What are you asking me to do now that I've experienced this highest level of engagement with these brothers and now that they're not here? Again and again and again and again, more times I feel like I can count sometimes. And then being able to move past that.

And after that, man, I was like trying to just piece it all together. I told my, man, I was like trying to just piece it all together. I told my brother, because he was living with my mom, you know, I care for my brother deeply. And I told him, I was like, dude, you're just gonna, just move down with me, you know, to Virginia. So now I wanted to take care of my brother

and make sure he was taken care of too, you know, and do everything I could to make sure he was squared away and set up because, you know, it was challenging growing up north, you know, it was like very, you're on edge all the time, wondering if you're going to either end up in jail or run with the wrong crowd. So I wanted to pull him at least out of there. And I'm glad that that happened. It's been very purposeful since then.

But all those pieces kind of coming together towards the end of that's ultimately what led me to have all those things compile and sitting down with my family and my wife to be like, do we wanna keep pushing forward here? Of course politics changed and all that. So there was a big push with kind of shifting gears. And in that moment where I'm looking back at the door being like, I might not ever come back here again.

But yeah, so a lot of details within that, but I think the overview of that experience changed me forever. It made me really understand the importance of honor. It really made me understand the importance of taking action in our daily lives and how these men that stepped up and volunteered from such a young age and were at the pinnacle and apex of who they were as human beings and they get ripped from us,

right? Doesn't no different from any other war or any other family. I'm just explaining the, if anybody that doesn't know or hasn't experienced it, you get these larger than life impactful at everything they do, beings that just get ripped out and they're gone. And I believe that it's faith that must carry us through these moments. And we're prepared to understand that we'll see these guys again. And our salvation is real.

And family is real. The is real and family is real the bond of a family is real you know how we live out our lives how we live our lives in every aspect every detail matters because of what they did and sacrificed and because what we can do because of them the fuel that basically keeps us going on a daily basis, you know. So, is that how, is that, man, it's not even an incident. I mean, you lost your mother, you lost your team, and an incident. Is that what reignited your faith? It was a huge catalyst because I was searching for something, you know,

that I was like, what's the answer here? What's the gray area that I'm missing? You know, how do I utilize this? If I'm going to live the best life possible in its fullness and truth to honor those guys, what does that actually mean? And that's really the question that kind of sparked my wife and I,

and she was a big part of this too, but leading me back to the church and leading me back in to be like, I mean, there's been moments all throughout that time, but that certainly was a push for me to be on my knees and saying why. Don't think for a second that there's a ton of the detail here where I wasn't drinking a half a bottle of Jack Daniels every night, drinking myself to sleep every other night,

going from funeral to funeral, down like a dark place, thinking about all the things that you think I would think about and processing what that means and trying to come out of that with some type of clarity, trying to come out of that with how do I approach life now? How do I live for these guys? And in a way that is going to make a difference in their children's lives and in the lives of our country. And through that process, just kept pointing me back to God and God's absolute truth.

And that's it. That's how I started. And that's how I understood what was going on is like, if I'm gonna fulfill this, I have to seek what the truth is of this life for myself as a father. Because ultimately, if you're gonna honor them truly, that means you're gonna live the best life

that you can possibly can. That's what it means. For any family member that wants to honor their family, for any warrior that wants to honor their brother, to truly say that you're honoring them is to live the best life that you can. And so that started to come in a question, well, what does that actually mean?

I wanna be there for their children. And oh my goodness, you wanna talk about overwhelming. I could get overwhelmed right now thinking about how many kids that I know, that I knew their fathers. It's, I have to put it in its place because I don't have enough time in my life to help them all. I really wish I did.

I really do. And maybe there's a way that will come to fruition about how I'm able to make an impact. But the weight of that is so deep that it causes you to say to yourself, like, I'm living for these kids too. I got to be a good example. I have to set the standard. I have to bring some type of faith and peace to them. Well, what does that actually look like? And then you start to realize, oh, wait a minute. I have children.

I have a family. In order for me to live the best life possible and find what the truth of that means is that in order to make this life better, to make an impact on the world, in honor of their name, it starts with me, starts with my family. It starts right in my heart. How am I talking about those guys? How am I living out a life that I can get the light to redirect towards them a little bit? You know, and if I'm hardened of heart,

and I don't allow that to happen through God's grace, in whatever way it's happened in the past, and whatever don't allow that to happen through God's grace in whatever way, it's happened in the past, in whatever way anybody else does that, you have to be open and receptive to growing and forging and being able to remove things that you thought were true that aren't, and being able to have uncomfortable conversations

with yourself or with the people around you. And so that's really, you know, you can't have those conversations not be led to faith. You can't, I'm sorry. It doesn't work that way and not be led to faith. You can't. I'm sorry. It doesn't work that way. That's not the way God intended this life. As soon as you start asking the deeper questions

and confronting your own problems, challenges, and sin, you end up confronting yourself in the face. Like, we have to change, don't we? It's like, yep, we do. So those guys definitely helped me recognize that myself. And you cannot experience that type of loss without asking that question. And my hope for everybody and for myself is that we ask that question sooner and more frequently because there's something to gain out of looking at life this way. There's the classic, you're

supposed to be looking at yourself on your deathbed. What did you leave behind? What impact did you make? Whose life did you change? And that's great. For some reason, that image has become less impactful to me because it's not really about me. It's not really about what I did.

You know, but what did I do to bring people closer to God's calling in their life? Like that's where I wanna shine the light on what God's asking of all of us to do. So, extortion 17 was a big push to understand my faith. My wife was, you know, again, I'll never be able to understand my faith. My wife was, you know, again, I'll never be able to thank my wife. Enough.

But you know, she was a big part of that too. You had mentioned, and you just talked about it, how do you honor him? I mean, you're also doing that right now. Mm-hmm. Well, praise God, I hope so. You are. Yeah. I mean, their memories are living through you right now.

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Thank you for listening to the Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes and leave the Sean Ryan show review. We read every review that comes through and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show. All right, Dom, we're back from the break and I just, I really appreciate you digging deep and going through that as tough as it may have been on that last segment.

And, you know, as I mentioned in the beginning, a lot of loss, I've never, to my knowledge, nobody's experienced more loss than gold team. And people are gonna get a lot out of that. That's gonna help a lot of people, move through their losses. And so I just wanna say thank you

for getting through that. Of course, Brian. I know that's tough. Yeah, it's challenging, but that's my hope and prayer is that somebody gains something from that. And that's always my motivation on talking about it. It's always, but that's my hope and prayer is that somebody gains something from that. That's always my motivation on talking about it. It's always a little bit different every time I bring it back up. I don't talk about it often.

Everybody that is around me and that I love, they know that's a part of my life. In some cases, it's a very surreal one, but at the same time, I know that it's necessary and it's kind of like we've been talking about about these things We've experienced I want people to have something to go off of everybody's gonna experience loss Everybody we all are this life is too short To not at least understand it honor it and know about it and really confront it because We live in a world that's so contrived from beginning to end You know, we we were born in a lab and we basically leave in a lab. So life and death has been put in a lab.

And people today are having a hard time dealing with the process of loss. I think again, faith is my anchor. So I'm going to talk about it nonstop. But I believe that that's something that will carry a lot of people through this. So hopefully they do get something out of it. And yeah, man, I'm, I'm, I'm driving. We're able to talk about it. Me too.

And just for the record, I got a lot out of that. So I took something from that. And so thank you. So moving on, I would like to, I would like to get to your separation from the command and the Navy and, And, but before them, cause I don't want to forget we had a, we had started a conversation downstairs on the break. And I want to continue that and start it over

because it's another thing that I think people are going to get a lot out of. So let's just pick it up right where you were talking about Socrates in his filtration system. Yes. So the filtration system is about gossip, which is really something that I think a lot of people struggle with. And in today's world where everybody wants to point the finger and say something bad,

one of the key things we need to recognize in ourselves is that the quickest way to connect with somebody is to talk bad about somebody else, which is not good. It's not it's not virtuous. It's not going to bring life to the world. And I think we need to recognize that in ourselves. So Socrates has this very cool way of filtering out what's going to be said. And so the story goes that he had somebody approach him saying, hey, I got something about one of your friends I want to tell you about. And he's like, OK, so you're going to come to me with a story of something

that you are bringing to me about my friend. Is it true? Let's go through the three filters. The first one being, is it true? And he said, I don't know. He's like, okay, well, you're going to tell me something about my friend that you don't know is true. So right away already, we're having issues kind of reflecting on is this something you should be doing. So let's go through the second filter. The second filter

is, is it good? And the guy said, no, it's not good. Okay, so you want to tell me something about my friend that you don't know if it's true and it's not good. And the third filter is, is it useful? And he was like, no. So he had a really good way of approaching the whole idea of what you're doing to talk about something or talk about somebody else. A lot of what we do in this life is speculate.

Speculate brings death. It's really, really, really bad. I've worked very hard on that, but I love the idea of these three filters is what we're gonna say true. Do we know for sure? Is what we're gonna say good and bring life? And is what we're gonna say useful? My life. And this is what we're gonna say useful.

My wife and I talked about this actually a little bit and there are gray areas, a lot of gray areas we can get into, you know, about talking about other people. And very quickly we realized, okay, there are situations, especially as husband and wife in this marriage, that we could identify other people about bringing things up that might not be good, but it's true and useful. And so now we're learning about our relationships

through the actual conversation, not with the intention of talking bad or trying to hurt somebody, but with the intention of trying to make it useful for our lives and be better. So I think there's a lot of different combinations you could use that filter for, but it's really, really useful.

Absolutely. I mean, everything starts with a seed. And when you plant a seed in somebody's head that's negative about somebody else, I mean, that you are injecting poison into, especially if you don't know if it's true or not. And, you know, I've done it, you know, I really try not to do it anymore. And I'm getting better and better and better as time goes on.

Faith helps with that. And diving into scripture helps with that and diving into scripture helps with that. But when you think about it, you know, the negative reaction that that causes, I mean, you don't know how far that seed's gonna grow. You know, and if you're out there and you're spreading misinformation about or planting seeds about people, that shit just gets very toxic,

and it always comes back around. Yeah, what is it saying of talking bad about somebody else's drinking poison, expecting them to die? And it's just true, It doesn't breed life. It doesn't bring life to anybody. I've worked really, really hard. It's like, I only wanna focus on the things

that are positive, that are fruitful, that are gonna bring encouragement to people. And ultimately, what it really comes down to, and this is even what I teach my children, is we're so quick to identify something somebody's doing wrong, right? And whether that makes us elevated for a moment to feel good or to identify as a place that we can learn and improve,

either the case, if we do see that in somebody else, I always tell my children, I was like, you're bringing this up to me, have you prayed for that person yet? Have you taken the time to reflect on praying for that person to actually improve their behavior? And oftentimes I get met with the answer, no, okay, well, you know what you need to do.

And our trigger should be exactly that. If we're gonna love other people, if we're gonna treat them with dignity and respect, then any time that we go to open our mouth about anybody, about something that we think they're doing, or that they are doing, the first thing that we need to be doing is, at least what I teach my family and I believe brings virtue in life to families and men, is pray for that person.

You know, just like we need to pray for those who persecute us. Praying for our enemies. One of the hardest things I've ever had to contemplate to do after getting out of the military was like, what? Pray for my enemies? What do you mean? Pray for my enemies. That makes no sense. So that took a lot of prayer to really understand. And I think that that's the same thing with the people that are persecuting us or we think are trying to do us harm,

is that that gossip can kill and intoxicate and poison relationships even unnecessarily. And there's a lot of people out there that don't deserve it. And we live in a world where everybody's so quick to talk behind everybody's back. It's like, I am only interested in talking to you right here by face to face. Pick up the phone and call me.

If there's any confusion about what I'm doing ever, and this goes for a lot of people that have known me, that I've met, pick up the phone and call me, find me, come to my home, knock on my door, I will have a conversation with you. And it's like, people would rather speculate and talk because it's easier to do. And again, what's the biggest thing that bonds us together

is talking bad about somebody else. We have to watch that in ourselves, you know? Isn't it crazy, you know how bonding that can be? Mm-hmm. I mean, it works, common enemy. You know, that's what happens in the teams. That's what creates a brotherhood, a common enemy, right? And I'm not saying that that's exactly the same

by any means, but people are always looking for a common enemy, you know? And just make sure it's real before you start spreading that just make sure it's real. Yep. Before you start spreading that, make sure it's true. But let's get into, I want to get into your separation from the command, separation from the Navy and, you know, you brought up drinking. I want to talk about, you know, what 12 years of wartime did to you and how you got out of that. So let's just pick it up there.

Well, you're trying to cope with a lot of what's going on in your life. You're living this lifestyle that's hard and fast know, in a lot of different ways. You know, there is that sense of camaraderie too, which kind of breeds that nightlife lifestyle. You know, if you have a moment, it's like if you're gonna play hard, if you're gonna work hard, you're gonna play hard type thing. I think we kind of grew up with that in our culture.

It's kind of like ingrained in us. Like, oh yeah, that's what I'm supposed to do. Work hard, play hard. So throughout the teams, you know, that is something that's like, oh, okay, this is what we do, you know, and none of it was fruitful. You know, well, I shouldn't say none of it. There's some good bonding that happened, but just the lifestyle that we're living in general at this point in my life, I realize how flawed and how broken I was, not really doing things

in the sense of, you know, a faithful manner. And all those experiences that I had, it gives you an excuse to drink. Whether you're going out on an op that was really difficult, whether you're losing your brothers, like the world won't look at you any differently if you have that excuse. They're just like, oh, well, that's what I expect you to do. I expect you to live this way because of the burden

that you have on your shoulders, or because of the challenges that you're dealing with. And I think for us it's going deeper in a sense of what is actually helping guys. Is that part of the problem after the fact is because you didn't cope with it right in the first place? A lot of guys look at the lifestyle in the military. Most people have that attitude before they even came in. That's most of the time. Even I would argue that suicide rates, you know, if people leaving, you know, a lot of the times people come in with that tendency already, already depressed, already not in the right state of mind, not coping with it well.

I'm not saying or devaluing by any means that people aren't dealing with experiences that are causing trauma, that are getting them to see life differently, but I still think it's worth identifying that these habits are something that was brought with them, or developed over a period of time. And it got really, really challenging for me

because it was just a part of what I did towards the end. You know, and I had all that loss. Drinking just seemed like, well, it's just what we do. This is our culture. We just drink, we toast, we honor the fallen. And so it was a cop out by all means, you know, just to think of the feeling that we get when we drink or the drive or the pull to drink.

I mean, essentially what you're doing, and everybody knows this already, so I'm kind of repeating the obvious here, but you're just drowning out everything that you've got going on instead of confronting it. You're not taking any accountability for what's actually happening.

That's why I believe that we do get wrapped up in the military, because they're like, oh, you can't sleep, here's an ambient. Oh, you've got this issue, here's this pill. Oh, hey, you're feeling like this, let's go get a bottle of booze. So nobody taught me that that was a really horrible idea. They just said, okay, it's fine.

And so masked under this numb kind of complacency or I'm missing the word here, but essentially just getting used to that and nobody really waking you up to it. It just became a part of what we did. And when I look at people now that want to change their lives or they want to improve things, I mean, how many people do you probably talk to? They're like, oh, I want to get better at this, or I'm struggling in this area. And it's like, okay, well,

let's talk about the very basic things. Are you getting a full night's sleep? Are you drinking alcohol? Are you smoking or taking tobacco? Are you working out every day? And are you eating right? Like these are so basic, but we miss them. We expect to do one of those things not well,

and then everything's going to change because I've got to do something else. And you're chasing your tail. You're like literally chasing you. I can't sleep. Let me take an ambient. You know, I chew tobacco, so I'm going to go mask it with this. And it's crazy.

It's like, just before you talk to me about doing anything, just get those basic things right, then let's have a conversation. If you're not actually getting sleep, people are like, oh, I have low testosterone. I'm like, well, because your sleep sucks. And you eat like crap, you know, stop doing that. And then things will change. So I think that that for me is all that was masked throughout the military and then wanting to do better when I got out was like, oh, I can actually work out more the way I want. I can actually try to get sleep the way that I want. And then I'm talking about this has been a journey over the last 10 years.

This is something that happened overnight. Like we were talking about last night, like I don't drink anymore. Like I'm never gonna drink again. I made that decision, it's gone. The only thing that I will literally put in my body is maybe an ibuprofen if I absolutely need it. And even then I'm like,

no, I stopped doing it for a long time. But I had to put all that in its place and how are you gonna really find the full potential of who you are and what is actually going on that you're masking with other things unless you strip everything away? Which is why fasting is so beautiful.

We'll get into that at some point too. But being in the military kind of gave me an excuse to live this vicious cycle of not sleeping and drinking and taking Ambien and doing this and going for these stressful situations and then coming back and I really do think it does start to wear on you after a while and I think you can live a healthy lifestyle in the military But you have to be actively working on it. You have to be aware of it and you have to have people around you that push you That would be extremely hard. Yeah with with

With what I experienced in you. That would be extremely hard with what I experienced in the military, that would be extremely hard. I mean, it is, it's just such a, I mean, when I look back, you know, that lifestyle was just part of the culture and it was frowned upon. If you took part in culture and it was frowned upon if you took part in it, it was frowned upon if you don't take part in it and and I mean even with You know probably get a lot of shit for saying this and I didn't scream You know to go to Dev group or anything, but you know it was so it just It was odd to me and I was so, it just, it was odd to me

and I was aware of it at, I mean, I left at 24, and put to see, to come to the team and do a mandatory monster mash on a Friday where you come back and there are kegs all over the grinder, you know what I mean? And it's frowned upon if you don't partake. And then you go, and then I'd have friends that would go screen and they wouldn't get in

because they have a drinking problem. And then you look at the culture over there from my perspective, it's no different, you know? And so it's like this confusing, like, well, what the fuck do you want me to do? All right, do you want me to drink or not drink? I don't understand. Like you just hammered this guy for getting a fucking DUI

last night or getting into a bar fighter, coming to work, hung over, smelling like booze. And literally eight hours later, we're having kegs on the grinder. OK, so, you know, your messaging isn't clear here on what you want us to do. Do as I say, not as I do. Yeah. And and in I took that as as things started getting political and they weren't making sense. And to be honest, it's part of the reason why I left.

It's a tricky culture to navigate. It is. Yeah, and they do. And I was part of that where I made people feel bad. I had dudes that didn't drink. I'm like, you didn't drink? What's wrong with you? Yeah.

I'm literally, it was like, what's the matter with you? I would treat people differently. I grew up in that Italian mafia culture where it's like, I can't trust you. You're not down here with me, so I can't trust you. Which really, in hindsight, it's the exact opposite of people trying to do the right thing. I think I was telling you earlier, on the Simpsons, they make their goody-touchu family out to be the bad guys. They're doing something wrong.

When really we need to be emulating and trying our best to do that, and with a little bit of sobriety and a little bit of intentionality and a little bit of faith, like those seeds that are planted within the teams, would go such a long way because there is cultural confusion. And I did believe at the time, like, hey, drinking is a part of what we do. It's a part of what bonds us together and brings us closer together. And I can't sit here and say for sure that that's still not true. You know, I just, you know, made this decision not too long ago.

And when I do something, I'm all in. I'm not like, I'm not gonna waver on that. There's nothing that's tempting me to go back to that lifestyle. But I do question and I am now praying through, what does this mean for the truth of all of us in our culture? And actually now I'm going to liquor stores, not liquor stores, but in Virginia they got

the liquor right there in the grocery store. But you walk by these things and it's like, man, this stuff is so readily available that you can just get alcohol whenever you want. I'm like, that's not good. I really don't think, I mean granted, what I'm not saying is that don't be free and take our freedom away, but in the sense of how easy it is to get

and how not fruitful it can be, I'm just, I'm toiling with the idea of like, why do we have all this? Like, why is this here? You know. Why do you think it's here? That's a great question. Like I said, it's something I'm praying about.

I really feel like it's a huge distraction. I feel like alcohol is a really big distraction away from the beauty and fullness of what life has to offer. I feel like every time we do drink, it's taking us away from reality. You know, why do we drink? We drink to feel something. feel like every time we do drink, it's taking us away from reality. You know, why do we drink?

We drink to feel something. And the reality is that feeling is not the way you're feeling. You're masking it with something else when we should be really focused inwardly on like, how are we actually feeling? And bringing it over to bring those out. You should be able to go to a party. You should be able to go to a celebration. You should be able to talk to people without drinking you should be able to go to a celebration, you should be able to talk to people without drinking at all.

That's something to work on. That's something that's, maybe it doesn't seem like it's obtainable, but I just think that, I really don't know. It's kind of like one of those things in our culture. I'm like, how did this get so out of hand and such a thing?

It's put in front of everybody. Obviously it's a billion dollar industry that's making a lot of money. I think that the world and our culture would be a lot better off without it. Again, it goes along with everything else and freedom, but it's something I'm questioning. It's like somebody told me the other day, well, you stopped drinking, so now you have all these bottles in your cabinet that you can give away for Christmas gifts. I'm like, why am I gonna perpetuate the thing

that I stopped because I don't think it's good? You know, if I thought it was virtuous and good to drink, then I would still be doing it. So now I have all this liquor cabinet. I'm like, I think I'm just gonna dump it in this trash haul. You know, but anyway. Hey, I have an entire bar right there and I haven't had a drop in almost two years now.

Yeah, it looks cool in the lighting. That's why it's there. But I get so much shit about that. But you know, it is immersed in every part of our culture. Let's go watch a sports game. Let's drink. Let's, we did something we need to celebrate. Let's drink.

We did something that we need to mourn. Let's drink. Let's, it's everywhere you look. I graduated. Let's get,'s everywhere you look. I graduated. Let's get, let's get shit faced. Yeah. I didn't graduate. Let's get shit faced, you know, and it's, it's,

it's the answer for every emotion. Right. Every accomplishment, every loss, everything. Yeah. Again, you know, I always, you have to point and understand spiritual warfare in the sense of like, you know, the fullness of our lives. Like I want people to reach their full potential and I certainly don't think you're going to do it by drunken. I really don't.

I think it's taking away. Again, I'm really serious about if I, anything, you know, whether I'm talking here or at home or to my children, I want to find what's true in our lives and what's true. And again, the whole idea of like what's true for you and what's true in our lives. And what's true, and again, the whole idea of like, what's true for you and what's true for you, I don't believe in that. I think that there's truths as humans that are real and we have very, very strong biblical principles

that they affect every part of our lives, whether we abide them or not. And I think that drinking is just one of those things where I don't see any value in it whatsoever. I really don't. And you know, what was it? Is there anything in particular that made you come to this conclusion such as was so recent? Me trying to live out a life for Christ to say, you know, meeting with the brothers that I meet on a weekly basis,

we're literally trying our best to live a life that is biblical. And in the brotherhood of even what St. Paul talks about, you know, of all the things that are stumbling blocks for us, is that is this a stumbling block? And I would rather remove anything that could be a stumbling block for me or anybody else around me than to take a chance that it could be. I'd rather just get rid of it, not question. I don't want anybody to be able to look at me and question whether I'm not doing everything I can in my life. And I think drinking was such an

easy one that was staring me right in the face. That I was like, why do you need that? I can reach my full potential. So I think that from a standpoint of wanting to do the best that I can, it was very easy to make that decision to say, I'm going to do this. And I think that there's fruit that will come from it. Yeah, that's really the big spark. Well, I'm happy you made that decision.

Let's talk about why you left. Following up what we were talking about earlier, obviously my mom passed away, my brother moved down, the heel on went down. There was kind of this big culminating feeling and especially being at war the whole time and knowing that we were going to kick down doors and then feeling that that start to shift a lot throughout the end of my EOS, my time in whatever that four year stint was. I started to see things slow down overseas.

So it was like, whoa, politically things are changing. And I was kind of spoiled in the sense of like, we should be going to go every time, not being constrained with what we do. There's bad guys out there. It was like this full talk with my wife about, what are we doing? What do we want for our future,

how do we want to raise our kids. And when my mother had said, she had told me, she said, you know, I think she told my wife, she was like, I don't want him anymore. And again, like, okay, mom, I got it, you don't want me to be in the military, that's cool. But then she passed away. And when I went for my re-enlistment, I went to do the paperwork.

Like I wasn't any other thought in my brain. I'm going to stay in and this is what I do. But we had talked about like, would this be an option? I don't know. Anyway, let's go get the paperwork. And so when I got the paperwork home, I looked at the paperwork and the day that I would have to re-enlist or get out is the same day my mom passed away the year before.

And so it was just like, whoa, this can't be a coincidence. And so I literally called my entire family together, my sisters, my dad, my brother, my wife. And I was like, listen, I need everybody's advice here. I got them all on the phone and I basically said, you know, these are the things that I've been through. This is what's going on. This is where I'm at in my life.

You know, we have a growing family. We had two children at the time. I had just had, actually, my daughter was just about to be born. And she was born, she was gonna be born in December. And when we had kind of looked at that and everything, I just really wanted to hear from what my family had to say, my wife especially.

And it was this kind of unanimous decision of like where we were at in life and after everything happening that this was the right choice was to make a decision to get out. And we really had no idea what we were gonna do. And honestly, when we made the choice because we hadn't thought we were gonna get out, it was like, I don't even know.

It was like three or four weeks that like we had when we made the decision. So I didn't get like any of the leave or anything. I worked all the way right up into the door, where now guys are planning that a little bit more and they should because it's better that way. But because I hadn't really planned it and made a pretty quick decision, maybe it wasn't four weeks. It might have been two months, but I gave guys at least a little bit of a heads up kind of feeling out what was going on in there and letting them know. But that was really the biggest decision of why growing my family, wanting to be home more, wanting to take care of them, which I feel absolutely sure that I made the right choice, especially when I hear all of my

buddies call me and say, you made the right decision to do it, but sit on our butt doing nothing. That made me feel good about it. But just what I've been able to do and the family we've been able to grow has been absolutely amazing. And so that was a big part of why we got out and how we got out. And then from there, it was just kind of like,

okay, where do we go now? Like, what do we do, you know? Did you have any plan when you left? Not really. Not really. I had a lot of trust that I was gonna be able to figure it out.. I had a lot of trust that I was going to be able to figure it out. I had a lot of faith that we're going to be able to work through this. And I actually had a really good friend of mine that knew we were making a very quick

decision and actually said, hey, listen, I'm out of shape. I need a personal trainer. Like, why don't you come work with me? And I was up at five o'clock every day for like six months straight working with him in the gym. And, you know, he was paying me a small stipend which kept me going. And I'm forever grateful for him, you know,

and us in that bond we had together. He provided for our family. And we were able to put food on the table and give him something too. So that's kind of where like the training started. And it was good for both of us. And then I started to do things like work with the NRA. That came out of the blue really.

I was saying that I wanted to do something after everything happened in Newtown. You know, like what can I do? Like where can I give a hand and how do I help in this fight? And somebody was like, oh, we might help in this fight? And somebody was like, oh, we might have something for you. And I was like, all right, well, what is it?

And then just those pieces all came together working with them. And that was really the spark of like, okay, am I supposed to be doing this? I'm supposed to be on camera. I was like, what do I do with my hands? So it's like, I have no idea what's going on. It was very green in the sense of,

I'm not sure if this is what I'm supposed to be doing, but I gave it my best shot. I remember seeing that. Yeah. I remember seeing that. That was around 2015, if I remember correctly. And I had just left the agency and I was sitting on my butt, not doing a damn thing.

And then you pop up on the screen. And I was like, no way. I've been seeing this guy in like 10 years. sitting on my butt, not doing a damn thing. And then you pop up on the screen. I was like, no way. I've seen this guy in like 10 years. And it was cool. It was cool to see. How was Dynamus born? Dynamus was born right around the same time

that I started working with the NRA because I had had a passion of wanting to do something. And it was really born of me saying I got to do something for my passion which is building gear, combatives, really training in gear together. That's the whole combination of it. But my buddy Drew, it was really born when I was in the teams. My buddy Drew, I don't know if you know Drew Sheets. I've not met him but we've had some dialogue.

Yeah. Well, I love him, like a brother, and he was a huge influence to me. I don't know if you remember him, just his nature and his attitude and his mindset was always like the highest of all the dudes. Like he would be the one pushing everybody out of the way, the first to volunteer for something. Like I love, he's the warrior of warriors, right? He's the one that anybody would pick out of the way, the first to volunteer for something. Like I loved, he was, he's the warrior of warriors, right?

He's the one that, you know, anybody would pick out of a hundred. And we were sitting at a bar one night after doing some off-roading courses. And we did a toast and he was like, literally this is how it was born. We clanked glass and he was like, dynamus. And I was like, totally dynamus.

And you know, drank and I was like, what does that mean? He's like, the will to fight. And I was like, whoa, I wanna know more about that. And he like, and we talked about that for like three hours. And he just went into it about how he knew that that Greek word meant the will to fight. And we kind of defined like, what is the will to fight? And I knew right away, because when a guy like that tells you something that meaningful like that's the impact that it had on me an

everlasting effect of the will to fight that is like what we fall back on That's everything that we have inside of us that that is brought to bear when we go through our most difficult times To fight nail and tooth for what we believe in to be in battle and be with our brothers and to fight nail and tooth for what we believe in, to be in battle and be with our brothers and literally go until our last breath. That's what it means. And so to me, it was like it meant everything in an instant. So we were in the teams and it kind of sat with me for a while. And even having children, my wife laughs at me because I actually asked her, can we name

one of our children Dynamus? And she was like, absolutely not. And she's amazing and I love her to death. And she doesn't typically tell me no, but that was one instance. She was like, hard no. So one of my children didn't get the name Dynamus, but my company did.

So when I started the company, I was like, there was no other choice for it, but to be Dynamus and the essence of Dynamus and the why behind it was, you know, the will to fight. And Drew really gave me that spark and I tell him to this day, I'm like, bro, the other reason that I named it dynamists because, you know, of that nature and his ability to fight.

How did you develop it? I mean, you know, looking back, it was sitting in the garage with my brother, you know, right when I got out and kind of sitting there thinking about, what do we do? That's where I started playing with the Play-Doh and, you know, molding the handle, being like, hey, Daniel, I want to build a combat blade that I can conceal. And Daniel and Karen, I love the Winklers with all my heart. They are some of the best Americans and patriots out there. A huge part of our success is our partnership with them. They have amazing, amazing tools that they've crafted.

And Daniel and I had an awesome relationship to begin with and Rat and I actually, Ratzloff and I went down to North Carolina to link up with them. And Rat was like all gun hoe, you know, developing the blade for the command. And I got to be a part of that experience, which was pretty cool. So we went down to Winkler's shop

when he's still at a hand forge. And so there we are with Winkler, literally like hand forging stuff. He's got metal in the fire. We're just sitting there drooling like, this is awesome, you know? And little did we know how beautiful the experience actually was.

I actually have a picture of Rat in that moment. And when I decided to call Winkler, like Winkler didn't even think about it. He's like, yeah, absolutely, let's do it. Like he's so good like that. So we developed our relationship off of exactly what we talked about, you know, developing a handle, developing the blade.

I have all the wooden and paper prototypes that we went through, probably like 30 of them, to get the blade that you have on you now. And ultimately, that's how it was created, out of a blade. You know, we made that blade, the will to fight was a part of it. I knew I loved combatives. I wanted to bring that to other people. I want to develop gear that people could utilize. This sheet that I have on me right now, my IWB sheet, I did not have the money to pay to get this thing developed. But I put every single cent I had into it and took a chance almost to the fact

that I was gonna go broke. And everybody that I worked with told me that I was making a stupid choice. Don't do that, you're gonna waste your money. And it's still to this day, it's one of our best selling products and one of the best sheaths out there. But I did that to combine the nature and beauty

of Winkler's craftsmanship and history and tradition into what I designed as the best fighting blade and concealable blade in the world and then build a modern cutting edge sheath system that put them all together. And that's kind of where Dynamus was born. Those were our first products that we really brought to fruition. And I can remember selling the first one,

like, yes, we sold one. You know, here I am with whatever it was. 30 or 40 of them sitting on the table that were hand boxing and hand putting together with my brother. And that's the spark that was in the garage. You know, we were in the garage selling blades and T-shirts. Man, I mean, it appeared to develop pretty fast. I mean, we talked about it in your EDC dump.

We didn't talk about much here, so I'd like to cover it again. But I mean, it developed into training, it developed into fitness, it developed into mindset, and now you have an entire gear line that you've designed, all of this stuff. If you haven't watched the EDC dump with Dom, you need to go watch that, because it's all in there.

But let's dive into some of it here on the actual show. So the gear and the training aspect, and this is the methodology behind Dynamis, was that I knew from my training experience and also combat experience, was that training and gear are cohesive unit. They go together.

And I didn't really see anybody out there. And in fact, I didn't see anybody. I think there's some guys doing it well now, Haley, Lucas, Bakken, some of those guys that are actually combining the two together. But nobody did that well. And I saw the gap there where I was like, look guys, if you have gear that you use,

you have to learn to train with it. Same thing with their training, you have to be able to put the gear together. I remember being on a call with somebody that wanted to invest in us and I said, yep, my business plan is gear and training. He's like, you're not gonna do it because you have to, you can't do both.

And I was like, don't tell me what to do. I'm gonna figure this out. Thank you for telling me that because now it's definitely happening. Yeah, exactly. It was just the motivation and push that I needed. And I didn't want to separate them. I still to this day don't. Yeah, exactly. It was just the motivation and push that I needed. And I didn't want to separate them.

I still to this day don't. And right around the time that we were starting to develop blades, like we actually did do a couple of local training courses. And you know, it's always very like, we're going to re-advertise. What do we do? Like do we put a flyer up in the gym? We make a couple of phone calls, send a couple of emails. I mean, that's literally what it was.

It was only grassroots and people that we knew. And the first course that we ever did, we had one person show up. And it was one of those like, one person, we tried. But it was beautiful because that was something we always remember because then the courses were packed. We had to sell them out every time after that. And I've reduced the training a lot now, but where it's culminated still to this day

is like we have online training modules, which I'm like, look, if you're going to buy a blade, make sure you know the basics of how to use this thing. How do you take care of it? How do you carry it? How do you apply it? How do you use it in a fight? What are the basic methodologies there? Don't buy a firearm and don't buy a blade without knowing that.

That's irresponsible and it's your duty to do so. The culmination of the brand and the methodology is really that. Crush everything, which is because I've got so many brands that I had to kind of piece together. We were doing the fitness aspect because that's important. We were doing the apparel aspect because that's important. The gear and concealability aspect because that's important. And the mindset training that goes along with it.

So, they all need to be a holistic perspective. It's a lifestyle. And I wasn't really willing to let that go. I didn't want to ever say, well, there's another way to do this. Because then what it was for me, and I can't tell you how many people came along the way, is like, oh, just slap your name on a shirt.

Just slap your name on a hoodie. You're gonna make money. You're gonna turn them over. Just do this. It's a way to make revenue. And I never wavered on doing that. I didn't want to do that. I was like, I'm not here just to turn over revenue.

While that could help fuel other things, I still want to say true to what I said I was going to do, and that's build the guest best gear in the world, make it in the USA, and make it a tier one quality. And it has to be connected to reality. Those are our strategic anchors. I don't build anything that's not connected to the way we interact on a daily basis.

There's no fantasy, there's no nice thinking, there's no, everything's real and it's purposeful. So that's what our brand is built on, you know, those methodologies. Where do you see it going in the future? Right now, that's something my wife and I are absolutely preying on. And we have a lot of success with what we're doing with inventory and our blades and our

gear that we're selling. It's difficult to keep that stuff on the shelf and we've gotten better about understanding, okay, supply chains, COVID, if anybody needed anything, it was difficult to get, you know, supply, like, where's material coming from? How are we doing that? That challenged us a little bit. I believe in the future that Dynamis and Crush Everything itself will continue to grow as a brand that offers the best gear in the world, the best concealability, the best options for everyday carry. Like I want what people carry to be useful.

I want what people carry to be like, I can't be without this. So I see it growing in that sense. The training aspect and the online training is something that's been really effective. People know like they buy a blade and like, oh, okay, I can add the training to my cart, which is really seamless and it's a holistic package. But on the physical training side, I don't know. I tried to build a whole training instructor staff and that just didn't work out. There was a number of reasons for that, but mainly it came down to one of the things was faith.

That was actually a big catalyst for me even sparking my faith too. But the ideas and the methods that were being used, it was really hard from a tactical sense to get on the same page with multiple guys that want to do it differently. And I had a vision of how it needed to go and it would have been great if I had an instructor staff I would say, okay, I could build you up, you can be an asset and now you're going to be able to go out and teach what our methodologies are. That model, I think for any good combatives instructor is extremely challenging and it really takes you being there.

I mean, you get the guys that run their dojos, and they're there 24 seven, and they have to be. You get guys that are traveling all over the world, and they get a high turnover rate. I pretty much can think of all of them, and they only have like one or two dudes that they can really trust and rely on. They end up opening up their own gym.

So it's a tough industry to understand, unless you're really scaling it from like a fitness perspective, that was hard for me to figure out. And I thought that I was gonna be able to go make a mini command. I thought I was gonna be able to leave the command and pop up a bunch of instructors that were just gonna be like,

hey, we're all in, let's do this. And that just didn't work the way I thought it was going to. Yeah, I mean, were you hiring, who was your instructor, Seth? Not names, just backers. Yeah, so they had, one of the kids was a real, real young, but I actually saw this kid when I started getting into combatives, he was super talented. I mean, this kid's like a savant with combatives. And I was like, we, we met, we got on the mat and he was a civilian.

We got on the mat and right away when we did our first reps, I was like, oh, you actually know that you got to hit somebody and what it's like to be hit. And so we gave each other that energy. It's almost like this mutual respect that happened. And I started to bring him under my wing like, hey, you need to do this. You need to do more of this. You need to get out there. And I saw this kid as being like the best in the world.

I was like, I want this kid to be who leads the instructor staff. So I poured a lot of time and energy into him and he was off on his own, going to improve and go to schools and all that stuff. And ultimately that was the person that full circle, like we had a falling out mainly because I think of faith and which is crazy to think about,

but ultimately that was the biggest wedge I believe that stopped us from really progressing in that manner. But again, that just wasn't God's plan for us. You know, the training in person wasn't our plan. And maybe it's good that it happened that way because I realized how much time it takes to leave your home, leave your family, go to another state, travel around the world.

Right now, with five children that need every second of my time that they can get is not a model that I want to continue to chase down, at least not in the interim or the immediate future. I think there's absolutely a possibility of doing more training, but very strategically and only a couple of times a year as opposed to like, I'm gone every month and my family never gets to see me. You know? So that's a big reason why I allowed to let that change and also wanted it to change. So.

Interesting. Yeah. It's one of the challenges I found in business is it's very in the training aspect. When I used to do training is, man, it is, it's, it's hard to, people think that they are the ones that built your business and they become very entitled.

And that, especially when it comes to hiring former, you know, soft types, because we all have the skill set, but what they don't see is the back end. Right now, everything that it takes just to market one course to get one person to show up. And then when it does start to take off to keep that train running and all the back end expenses, and yeah, it got tricky.

It's a lot. It really is. There's a lot of effort that goes into it. And I still had a vision of building a crew that was just on fire and we were communicating the same way. The worst thing that I wanted, the worst thing that I thought could have happened was you know when you went to a school

and you had one instructor telling you one thing and somebody else was telling you something different on the other side of the line, you know, you're like, wait, who am I supposed to listen to? Like, who's right here? I wanted to get rid of all that. And like, look, what's the truth of it?

If we thought a tactic was off, or if you had an issue, I mean, we would get in a, back and forth's right on the range and be like, okay, well, let's take that point and let's go isolate it in the gym. Let's go get it on the range and let's go figure out who's right here

because there's a better way to do it, you know? And that was the beauty about anything, I think, like seeking the truth and all things is in the tactical world. You have to be willing to do that. And usually somebody's pride that stops that from happening. You know, that's like, I got a better answer. and okay. Well, you think you got a better answer. So go figure it out Yeah Excuse me

you know one of the one of the things that that I really respect about what you did is you I mean you put your business on the back burner to your family. And you don't see that very often. And so I'd like to talk about that. You know, you're a family man and you're a father first. And I really appreciate that.

So what is it that led you to that decision? Because you were going hard with the business stuff. I mean, like I said, it was Dynamus, AdaptiveX, ArmorUp, am I missing anything? Neptune blades. Neptune blades. You had also some kind of navigation thing at some point, I believe.

No. No, that wasn't you? Probably Dam at some point, I believe. No. No, that wasn't you? Probably Damian. Okay. Lead nav. Yeah. I thought you were a part of that for some reason. But, well anyways, four businesses.

And real estate. And five businesses. Yeah. For the most part. And that's where I realized I had to start consolidating all that stuff. But we... That's tough to do. I mean, that's your baby.

You know, a lot of time and dedication went into that. It's very obvious, you know, and to push it aside. I mean, that's a big move. Also, just the mindset of getting out of the teams, I wanted to keep going that hard, right? Like, I wasn't necessarily ready to get out from a mindset perspective, but I did, and I kept that attitude all the way through my business.

So I was just grinding away exactly that. I thought I could do it all well, you know, and I was going 100% of the time, sometimes stay until midnight for five days straight in the week, coming home, sleeping a couple hours, going back and doing it again. Maddie Patricia from the Patriots, one of the guys that I really look up to, one of the hardest working dudes I know, I get texts from him like, he worked for Belichick directly and he'd literally get an hour of sleep, two hours of sleep and that's what he does.

He goes to bed at one o'clock and he's up at three o'clock heading back to the stadium. I'm like, I don't know how you do it. So when I sit there and whine about getting a couple hours of sleep, I just think of him and I'm like, all right, Matt, he's up getting after it. I got to get after it. And it does start to catch up to you in some senses, but the easiest thing to do for men specifically is that we want to go chase something out in the world and make this impact. We want to go out there and we think we got to go make an effect somewhere else.

And in all actuality, the hardest thing to do is to confront what we're doing ourselves in our own hearts and then allowing ourselves to be great fathers at home. It is the most challenging thing that I've ever done in my entire life about anything being a father because I truly care about my children and I truly want them to be better. So if I'm going to live the truth

and I'm going to really do that the way I say I'm going to, then I have to turn inward and say, am I doing that to the best of my ability? And I'm willing to give up everything for it, including me thinking that I need to go out and have this amazing company that scales and grows. What is all that worth if I'm a bad dad and I'm not a good father? And realistically, all you're doing is just faking everybody else in the world

while you're leaving them high and dry. And that's the spark for me that caused me to say, what do I need to do at home to get this right? And I'm willing to make everybody think differently about me. I'm willing to give up revenue. I'm willing to give up everything that it takes to be home and truly want to do that right. I want all my kids to look me in the eye

and be like, my dad is amazing. He's here for me always. I know he is and he loves me. Like if my children say that to me, then I'm doing it at least a portion of it right. And I think the growing never ever stops. I think that we have to lean into that in a big way. But I am willing to risk everything because without that piece, I'm just lying to myself.

I'm lying to my family. I'm lying to the world. And inwardly focusing, how can I go out to tell somebody else to be a better father? How can I go out and tell somebody else that I need to grow their faith? If I myself, I'm not trying to do everything I can to do it myself.

So that's a big push of why I decided to change everything and take this year to really like pull back from the world, stop listening to the noise, stop looking at social media, really focus on my faith and pray, Lord, let me be a better father, let me be a better husband. How is it that you want me to show up for those moments?

And that's been the transformation of why I've been willing to do that. And I still stand by that right now. I'm still seeking, I think the one question I ask myself every day is what is the most impactful and effective and efficient thing that I can do right now that will change what I have going on? And so I think about that at every moment. As soon as I get up, as soon as I move, as soon as I talk, as soon as I interact, is this the most effective thing I can do? Sometimes that's just being present, which is difficult. Sometimes it's literally letting the world go,

breathing through that moment, and literally trusting in God's will for right where your feet are, and just breathing, and watching your son or your daughter, and saying, what do they need from me in this moment? Because it's so difficult with the things buzzing around in our mind to actually get that time and that intentionality. And I'm making sure that I can do that well. That's the sword that I'm sharpening right now. Like, hey, hand to hand is great. Shooting is great.

You know, going out in the world, do all this crazy stuff. Great. But does my kid know that I'm the best at what I do? Or will he at least see that later on and look back and be like, man, my dad was absolutely on it. Like that's what I want. I want my kids to be able to say that. This isn't something you can just do.

I mean, to be present, to leave. I mean, did you leave it 100% or did you still dabble a little bit in business? Are you just now picking it back up? Are you talking about the business? Yeah. Well, no, I definitely dabbled as far as like what's going on with the business, you know, and we've been praying through that all year about what that looks like for us and how we run it.

You know, praise God that our business has done well without us really having to sit there and go out and do new things, you know. It's been able to live. We have a very, very amazing, loyal customer base that believes in what we do. They believe in what I do, and they've sustained us for a long time about continuing to buy our product. I guess, let me rephrase this question.

When you put the business on the back burner and the family first, I mean, I'm obviously an entrepreneur too, and I know that entrepreneurship, business ideas, growth, what you think you should be doing, all the ideas that you haven't gotten to bring to fruition yet. I mean, how was the process of setting that aside

and actually being present in the moment with your family? That's not a light switch. At least I wouldn't think it is. It's not for me. And I struggle with that balance. I still struggle with it, you know? And so I'm asking for me. Well, I really do believe that it's leaning into our faith

to the point where we're asked to be present. We're asked to be fully trusting in what God's calling us to do right then and there. And it's our vocation as fathers. So when I started to realize the weight of being a father and all these other things that I had going on, like what's more important? Is it more important to have a successful business?

Is it more important to run down these ideas? Or is it more important to really be there for them? And that shift started to happen, I don't know slowly or all at once, but I started to lean in, one of the things that happened for me was like I was having business meetings or weekly meetings. And this was like probably five years ago.

And I was sitting there doing the weekly meeting and I left the room and I'm like, I'm like, wait a minute, I'm having weekly meetings with my team at work? Why don't I have family meetings? Like, I put this much intentionality, but how much do I care about my family? Boom, sparked it.

I think like two months later, I came home in a cab and a guy was like, yeah, we meet with our family every Sunday, we get together, we talk about what's going on, what's good, what's bad, whatever he tells us. I'm like, my man, you just sparked me to do this like the next day I was doing a family meeting and it's been a part of our life now. And so it's been a slow process

of continually challenging what I have going on, but I'm willing to leave everything else. I'm willing to drop it all to let them know that they're the priority. And that's been the rebuilding of like social media is like Joseph comes up to me and he lifts his arms up, daddy, daddy, and I'm on the phone. Dude, I'll toss the phone away. My trigger is to never let them feel like they're competing with the time from media,

social, computer, anything. I try to work from home as much as I possibly can and have that balance. And as a man, as a guy that wants to go after it and get after it, it's tough. It can be very challenging when you want that 100% dedication. But it's something that we need to recognize because they're mirroring that behavior. They're watching what we're doing.

And all I can say is that we have to be open to them as a priority. We have to learn to be present. We have to learn to show up. I'm willing to lay my life down for that idea. And I'm willing to give up whatever it takes for them to be happy and know that I love them. Did...

It's no, I don't really want to expound on this because I am frankly, I'm tired of talking about it. But with the way the world is, you know, with with with everything we see today, attacks on families, attacks on masculinity, attacks on gender. I mean, you name it, every direction you look, everything is backwards and upside down. Nothing makes sense. Did that also play a part in you pushing business aside and putting your family first? I think the short answer is no. No, it didn't.

And not because I don't think that it's important, but what's changed in me is that my absolute faith and what God's calling me to do is, again, that's the world. The world is in chaos. Every time you step foot out the door, if you let it, it will completely consume you. So all these things that are confusing are gonna continue to be confusing and they're gonna continue to get worse. So it's like, I don't wanna focus on any of that.

What I focus on in my family is the truth and beauty of what God's asked us to do, right? And that's why faith and that's why the church is absolutely critical in understanding a base foundation of who we're called to be. And so that transcends with our children. I mean, you should hear some of the things that my kids say. Like that beauty only comes from leaning into making sure that we know that we were created

in the image of God, to respect and love yourself, to respect and love your neighbor. No matter how broken the world is, as opposed to focusing on that, I'd rather make sure that my children are praying for people that are dealing with those situations. And I think that that's really what we all need to be doing to make a difference. And then educating them as they see these things and they experience them, you know, and arming them to know clearly that's right

and that's wrong and I know it is because I've listened to my parents, I've listened to my faith, I've prayed, I've seen it play out. All of the things that God works and the beauty of us raising our children, because it is critically important. We are all their first teachers.

And what are we doing? Too many parents today are like, eh, well, whatever my kids want to do, really. I'm like, what? I'm like, because that's a great idea to let an eight-year-old choose that he wants to do or a 15-year-old choose that he wants to do.

I'm going to tell you right now, if I was that young and I was just like, oh yeah, just go let me do whatever I want. It would have been a nightmare, a destruction, right? So that's not the way. We can't keep deferring our responsibility as parents. There's this extreme accountability that we need to take with raising our children. And I think that that's the nature of what's going on is that as much as it's tempting to say, yes, I did it because of that, it's also really easy for me to say no because I don't let them distract me to that level.

And our home, we're very focused on the truth, we're very focused on faith, and that continues to build them up in a way that's like, oh, they know that that's wrong. I had one instance recently, we went to a father and son event, and my seven-year-old Leo, he's out there and another boy came up to me He's like yeah girls can marry girls and boys can marry boys and Leo's like no they can't what are you talking about? That's not right, you know, and he knows right away like instantly that that's not okay And so he stood up for himself and I had to talk to him about that conversation And it's really challenging

To get them to convey that in a way, but I talked to him about, hey, listen, all we can do is make sure that we're loving them through that scenario. And honestly, if you're ending up at that point, like we clearly need to understand is that something's going on in their heart. There's something that's off. That doesn't mean love them less. It means love them more and pray for them more. That what they're going through is difficult and challenging.

And it's like that with all those other things that are out there. I mean, it's sad and heartbreaking to think some of these things are happening, but I just encourage and challenge all of the parents that are listening to do everything they can and being willing to lay their life down for it, to give their children the right guidance and live by that action.

There's so many people that know their faith is important, but they're not actually living it out. They're not actually disciplined about their faith. They're literally playing games. You know, oh, I dropped my kids off to religious education, but I don't actually go to church myself. I was like, well, you're a hypocrite. You're absolutely a hypocrite.

You're not living out the life that you said you're gonna live. And so what's real? Reminds us we'll just do whatever we want anyway. But it's the challenge for all the parents to really, really take accountability for that and be their first teachers, to not waver from the truth and to stand firm.

Just be an example. Be an example. Yep, we've been saying that a lot lately. Yep, we have. Yeah, it's like the theme. How do you, do you homeschool your kids? All five of them, yes. How's that experience?

Beautiful. Another one that I'm interested in because that's a, I mean, it's going to be here before I know it, whether they're going to go to school school or whether they're gonna stay home and do school there. And have you done both? No. No, you've always home school. Yes, my wife felt like God was, you know, hitting her in a way, but she just felt like

she was a nurse, she was a nurse. And she left that career to come home and teach our boy and raise our boy and be there for the family. And it has been so beautiful. Again, I will never really be able to thank my wife and tell her how much I appreciate her enough, but she is amazing when it comes to teaching the children. And again, we're the first teachers, we're the first guidance that they're going to

get. And so having that structure in the home is so awesome. There's a level of flexibility to it. I mean, we can literally up and go wherever we want, whenever we want. You know, if we're like, hey, let's go do a field trip to Williamsburg or go look at Fredericksburg, one of the battlefields, we can literally jump in the car

and go, that's the field trip for the day. And we all learn. And we're doing that more and more and more. We're evolving, we're getting better at the whole idea of this interaction too. But as far as the homeschooling goes, we are sitting down with them every day and we're teaching them, I'll come in at certain points for those challenges, I'll try to help them problem solve so we both get a different view on how we're giving them the tools they need to solve these problems.

They get basic education. My kids are to the point now where they're looking at the public school buses as like a prison bus. That's what they call it, the prison bus. Because they're done with their schoolwork before the bus even shows up. Literally they've crushed their schoolwork before it goes down the street. So they're starting to recognize that, oh, okay, we can get a lot done and be efficient. There's a lot of waste in public schools.

There's a lot of wasted movements. There's a lot of wasted energy. And one of the biggest things that I was telling you that hit me like a lightning bolt about the public school systems, A, that they're not properly giving our kids the fiscal responsibility and financial understanding and education that they need in order to be successful to experience financial freedom.

But the most important is that there is no structured way that our public school systems are teaching our kids how to love one another. And when my wife told me that, I was like, whoa, that is deep. Because all these kids are confused and lost and treating each other like garbage. And it's like, what are we doing for? We owe that to these children. And again, for me, the first place I need to start is my home. And I hope for me, the first place I need to start is my home. And I hope that there's people inspired. I know there's a lot of people choosing the home school. I cannot imagine sending my kids to public school. I went to public school. And right now, because it's being used as a weapon, unfortunately, for a lot of people and a lot of teachers to intoxicate our children

with their ideologies and their ideas and their truths, and it's throwing our culture upside down because we're getting fragmented from the inside out. I don't even think, and this is another spark for me, I'm looking at how much time I'm spending with my children and I'm trying so hard to know them and love them and care for them. And it's really tough. I highly, highly challenge and doubt that people that are sending their kids to public schools even really know their children.

They're spending so much time away at work, separated from their kids, they come home, they do homework, they check out, they go on the computer, they're on their iPads, they go to bed and they do it again. And I'm like, I don't think that that's the way that we were supposed to do this. When did the public school systems get implemented? What was it like 70, 80 years ago?

I have to be honest, I have no idea. So it's backtrack. I mean, that is just not that long ago. I have to be honest, I have no idea. So let's backtrack. I mean, that is just not that long ago. And so what happened and how we grew and educated each other was to live in education can be an amazing tool. I'm not saying that at all. Strategic education is very important. But the idea that we're kind of sending our kids off, expecting the world to raise them

and then come back the right way, I think that we're just missing an extreme valuable opportunity to really take ownership in that process. Even us, our own lives, you know, we're going out of the house to go chase this dream separated from our children. And one of the things that pains me the most, it's actually insulting at this point when I hear somebody say it. But people will say, oh yeah, we're raising up to basically send our kids off to college so we can get our freedom back. And I'm like, if that's your attitude, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself

because what you're doing is you're building it up in your head like you have this freedom. So what do they actually mean to you? Is this a vocation where you're gonna see your children through to any challenge? And mostly that's our culture, it's like, well, I want my freedom back, you go do your thing and you figure it out.

I'm like, again, that's just not the way we were supposed to live. We were meant to be in community with each other, to live with each other, to grow in family and friendship. You know, and that's just been so lost and fragmented. All these issues that you mentioned earlier that you're sick of talking about are because of our family units are broken down. The relationship with our church, the relationship with our families, it's broken and it's starting

to seep in every part of our society. I think it's beyond starting to. I think it's... True. I think it's beyond starting to. I think it's, you know, but, you know, I have a friend, his name's Dean, and he told me, he gave me kind of an analogy a couple of weeks ago, because I was asking him about how he raised his daughters

because they turned out to be, are turning out to be very successful at a very young age. And, you know, so I asked him, you know, how he, and he did it as a single dad. And he said, well, you have to picture your kids like this. He said, if you put a billion dollars in a clear plastic bag, where are you gonna put that? And when you think about that,

you can't put it anywhere. Right next to you, that's where it goes. And that's where your kids should be. Right next to you, all the time, visibility. And it just, it stuck with me. It made a lot of sense, you know? And because what's the world gonna do when they see a billion dollars sitting

in a clear plastic bag? Are you gonna trust anybody with that? Your most prized, valued, the thing that means the most to you, you know? Are you gonna stick it in the public school system nowadays? Are you gonna stick it in daycare? I'm not. Yeah, yeah, no, I think we have a duty and responsibility to our children. And that's why I said I'm challenging everybody because it starts there.

And on top of that, we have to be the example. And too often, I always say, kids will push you if you let them. Because at every turn, they will hold you accountable. You're like, don't do that. Or the next thing you know, I got my kids, they're like, dad, you said not to do that. And what's our reaction? Don't tell me what to do, right?

And what are we teaching them? Nothing, confusion. And so there's this beautiful accountability in our home where anything that I implement, I absolutely will take that correction for my children. Because I want them to know that they're right. They're implementing something that's true and virtuous and good and useful. And so when they say, hey dad, you swore, you're supposed to do pushups.

You're dang right. I'm going to get down on the ground and I'm going to do pushups. And anything that we implement like that, and they hold me accountable for, I'm the first one to pop to it. I'm the first one to go take out the garbage, I'm the first one to replace the paper towel roll. I need to jump up, as soon as my wife's like, hey, can somebody, I'm already up,

trying to beat my son to the punch. Because it's like, I need to teach them that that's the movement, that's the behavior that you need to exude. And now they all fight each other to go do stuff. They're constantly pushing each other over to go get the job done, because it's fun. And it's really exciting to see that grow in our home because the other thing too is my daughter, she is just like an angel.

She's increased my faith so much. It's amazing how much faith you can grow watching your kids. But she has like a connection and a very high respect for Mother Teresa. You know, there's a lot, for whatever reason, she just was boom, attracted to her life and her charity and her order that she started.

Mother Teresa's got some amazing quotes, but one of the quotes she has is that, you know, we don't wash the dishes because we're cleaning up after what just happened, but we're cleaning it because we love the person that's going to use it next. It's like, that is the attitude that I want my children to have and everything they do. And she always reminds me of that. Like whether I'm getting frustrated, she'd be like, Dad, you're doing this because you care for us and what's going on around you.

So there's this beautiful synergy that kind of takes place when you think about things like that and you watch your kids do it. But we have to be the example. Don't just tell our children to do something. Live it out at every step of the way. Especially again with our faith. What are we doing to really lean into that that shows them that it's important?

Or are we just going through the motions? Yeah, yeah. Dom, I'd like to talk about spiritual warfare. I'm very green on this, so I just want to let you run. And then I'll have my own questions as you go. But when did you start looking into this? I think all of us, I think anybody listening, because it's a very real element of our lives,

have felt something along the way. Maybe it's different for everybody on how we feel it and how it affects us. But the sense of evil being present and the sense of goodness being present, it's hard to look out the window and see my kids playing in the yard and not feel the love of God. You know, heaven on earth is right there in front of us. We get a glimpse of that. But we also get a very raw glimpse of evil.

You know, people being abused, abortion, child trafficking, terrorism, innocent lives being taken, like pure evil. Hard for the human heart to really explain why it's happening in the first place. And when you start diving into the nature of evil, you know, God's love is really where it starts to understand. Like God loves us unconditionally. But we have an opportunity to screw this up. We can get this wrong.

We can do things that separate us from the love of God and reject the love of God in our hearts. And I think that that's where evil really starts to steer up and stir up, you know? It's the devil whispering us in our ear, we're not good enough, you shouldn't be this way, don't worry about this. I mean, we all have very subtle things that we deal with

on how spiritual warfare works, and it will seep into every aspect of our lives if we let it. That's why Ephesians 6 is so powerful. And when Paul talks about Ephesians 6, and I'm gonna quote it here because it's important to understand that the evaluation of like from a warrior's heart,

from a warrior's perspective of understanding spiritual warfare and understanding physical warfare on earth, our physical being. I've been grabbing people lately by the arm-killing. We're here. You can actually feel me and interact with me. So we're engaging in this physical world, but there's this spiritual dimension that absolutely exists. If we understand eternity and we understand heaven and hell, those start to become very real and very apparent. But Ephesians 6 starts with, "'Children, obey your parents and the Lord for this is right. Honor your father and mother.

This is the first commandment with a promise, for it is well with you and that you'll live a long life on earth. Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but raise them up in the discipline and the instruction of the Lord. Slaves be obedient to your earthly masters, with fear and trembling as a singleness of heart as to Christ, not as eye service, not as men pleasers, but as servants of Christ

doing the will of God from the heart, rendering service of a good will, not as to men, but for the Lord, that knowing any good anyone does will be also done to them, whether they're a slave or free. Masters do the same to them forbearing threatening, knowing that he who is their masters and yours is in heaven, but knows no partiality. And then it goes into the armor of God. Finally be strong and put on the whole armor of God that we can withstand the wiles of the devil.

Because our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities and the powers and the rulers of the present darkness of this world. And then he goes on to stand firm so you can stand in the evil day, put on the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, the gospel of the shoes of peace, the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit and the shield of peace, the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit and the shield of faith. And so from a spiritual sense, what I always find fascinating about Ephesians 6

is that every warrior knows that pretty well, put on the full armor, God, we've all heard it before. And so we're like, yeah, let's go, let's put on the armor. But in the spiritual dimension, that chapter actually starts with children who obey your parents, honor your father and mother, don't provoke your children to anger, whether you're slave or free in this life.

No matter where your circumstance is, no matter where you are, our calling is to have a singleness of heart, to serve God out of love and to do a good will. And so if we're not putting that groundwork and foundation in front of thinking that we're gonna armor up and that we're actually gonna walk out protected from anything, we're missing the key elements

and key foundational things in our life. So if we want to put the armor on, we gotta get the basics right. That's the beauty of chapter six and how I think it culminates together. So recognizing in our own lives, like where are we being stopped from doing those basic things really well?

Like where is the devil whispering in our ear, like you don't need to do that, that's not important. Keep going after the shiny things, keep going after the money, keep going after the title, the empowerment, the status. You're doing it for all the wrong reasons that keep us distracted from doing those things right. I think that if we lose ourselves in faith, we open ourselves up to a vulnerability in

this world because I absolutely believe spiritual warfare is real. I can't say what it is for everybody else, but I know that there is evil and darkness in this world and I've seen it firsthand more times than I'd like to admit. And if we don't have the ability to anchor ourselves on something, that will overcome us. That will overcome our lives in deception and deceit. And again, the world will push us around all over the place.

You know, my son said something very, very, very profound. And dang it, I can't remember the scripture. But I remember, oh, I was in Revelation. I was reading Revelation with him. And there was a verse in there that basically said that we're on earth with the rulers of the earth, which are the evil ones that are ruling the earth that have been cast down from heaven.

So my son read that, and that wasn't the exact verbatim quote, I don't know exactly where it is, but he said, we're in the arena with the devil is what he said. And it was just his own like interpretation. We're in the arena with the devil is what he said. And it was just his own interpretation. We're in the arena with the devil. And I was like, you're absolutely right. We are, we're contending against that daily. So all of these things going around us

give us an opportunity to get it wrong, to be tempted by these things that are keeping us enslaved in that battle to separate us from the love of God. And ultimately it's our working and our prayer and our constant faith that binds us to the love of God. So while spiritual warfare is not something like, I'm not an exorcist, I'm not an expert in a lot of these things, I'm still growing just like you,

I'm learning a lot of this stuff. And through a lot of prayer, a lot of these things. I'm still growing just like you. I'm learning a lot of this stuff. And through a lot of prayer, I've recognized these things. But I know it's true. I know it's real. And I know the more we pray and the more faithful we are and the more we receive the grace of God and the sacraments is that we do have a level of protection. You know, that's why when we prayed before we went on an op

or that's why we prayed before something is so critically important, that's why we pray when we lose somebody, that's why we pray for each other, because we know how important it is, and we need to implement that in all aspects of our life, especially protecting ourselves against the evil that exists. You know?

Man, this is a deep subject. I love talking about it. I love talking about it. I love talking about it. But when you say another dimension, I mean, what exactly does that mean? I mean, I hear that a lot, you know, that all these things are going on around us that we can't see.

What do you envision that that looks like? Well, I mean, I can sit here and try to paint a picture, but there's a lot of mysteries to how we go through these things and how we understand them. And if, and I know we are, made in the image and likeness of God, right? We're standing here and this is what God's creation looks like. I think it plays that self, that out in a lot of different ways where heaven and hell are very real.

And the idea that we have them, especially from the picture that Jesus continues to paint that picture of what that is, is ultimately it's the separation. There's a lot of people that have explained this way better than I have, but ultimately it's the separation of God's love. We can do that on our own. We deny and reject and turn away from and continue to live in our own temptation. I heard it said once where like hell is not like this fiery burning place, but it's you actually giving into what you've already been doing. Like if you're enamored by money or you want status or you're like the guy that gossips

about everything, it's like you're only the guy that gossips about everything, it's like, you're only gonna leave this earth being more of what you already are. And that gets brought to a whole other level, and separates you even further. And there's a better way of explaining that, but there's a lot of things that have been said about how that dimension, if you will,

that's the word that I pick, in my own human understanding. I always laugh at how little we actually know in the short life of like, we're taking all this information and I'm trying to apply it. But they exist, they're real. And for us to really contemplate and pray on,

what I always tell people is like, if there's something that you're questioning, pray on it. Pray and ask for wisdom, ask for guidance. Like what is God trying to show us in this? Because ultimately we're not supposed to have all the answers, that's the beautiful thing about God. He gives us a chance to get it wrong

and he gives us a chance to get it right. And we're always given the option, we're always given the choice. Even like the people that say, oh, what about the people that are on like the island that never got introduced to God? I'm like, well, I'm not God, and I don't understand his graces, but God works in a multiplicity of ways that I'll never even come close to understanding. And how that culminates and works and progresses through other people's lives is just a reality. And when we see it transcended throughout

time, you know, in the church and throughout our culture and throughout the entire world, you know, like there's a beautiful example of what God's already done here, you know. I feel like there's a movement happening, you know, and we've spoken about it last night, I've spoken about it several times on here, but more and more and more people who you'd never would expect, maybe in one of them, are moving towards Christ.

Yes. And I mean, have you noticed this? Yes. Have you noticed this as well? When did you notice this start happening? You know, my dad, you know, all of a sudden, you know, we talked one day, like, hey, dad, I'm going to church. He's like, I'm going to church too.

And this is years ago. And I'm like, you're going to church? I'm like, okay, that's awesome. And then the car ride with Eddie, talking about God, and then seeing other people that I never would have expected turn to Christ. And it's something that I look at now and I'm like, okay, God, I know, I get it. But it is a beautiful thing to see now in our culture.

As bad as everything's getting out there, as difficult and challenging as it is to understand, there's also this beautiful awakening that's happening according to God. And it happens throughout time. It's history repeating itself. We turn away, we walk away from God, we separate ourselves from His love, and then He finds a beautiful way to redirect our hearts.

And I just feel all of them getting goosebumps right now because all of these warriors are starting to recognize the truth and the beauty. If the world is telling us anything's true, the person that's really seeking the truth is finding it and that's in God's salvation and his love for us and his forgiveness for us. Like there's a, I know this with my whole heart, like I would stake my life on it right now without wavering, is that this is our call. I mean, and I can say that looking you in the eye to be like, I've really wanted out of just a pure,

genuine desire to find out what's real and true and beautiful and to do the right thing that have been led to this point, to be at the foot of the cross in church on my knees, looking up at God and saying, this beauty has been here the entire time. Now you're calling us and you're waking us up to what we're actually supposed to be doing together.

And I don't know what's working. I've had some crazy phone calls lately. I've had people call me up and be like, hey, we're doing this thing, men's ministry starting, men know they need God. You know, it's the age old thing of like, you know, we have this God size hole in our heart, but you'll fill it up with anything else,

but that instead of turning, because it means we need to change. The average person would rather change their beliefs than change their behavior. And that is absolutely true, just from human nature in general. We'd rather go the easy path, not do the uncomfortable thing. Your friends that say they love you, that validate you for who you are, are not your friends.

They are your enemies because they are not taking you away and keeping you from what's destroying your life. A true friend's going to look you right in the eye and say, hey man, you're messed up. I love you, but it's time to change. And that's what's destroying your life. A true friend's gonna look you right in the eye and say, amen, you're messed up. I love you, but it's time to change. And that's what true brotherhood is. That's what true family and friendship is. Anybody else that just tells you what you wanna hear, run away from them as fast as you possibly can.

And I think that that's just something that for us is I'm recognizing it. It makes me very happy. And I just wanna know where God's calling me in that fight. You know, where is God calling us together? And I think that there's something incredible happening. I always say that God's hard at work right now. His spirit is moving, you know, all over the world. And we're seeing it in different ways.

Like, I mean, we ask ourselves a question. We're sitting here as brothers, as friends, haven't seen each other in a while, but here we are talking about how important faith is. You know, and I think that there's an absolute reason for that. So, you know, here we are. Yeah, here we are.

You know, I love talking about this stuff. It's my favorite subject. I really, it's just, I'm a sponge on this subject. And yeah, you know, it's really, what do you think sparked this movement? I mean, I noticed it probably about a year and a half ago. This is when I started picking up on different things that were happening, different coincidences, putting it finally actually, and I don't know if

this was always happening or if I was more present in the moment, but it just started seeing all these weird coincidences happening. And that kind of sparked a little bit. And then, and then what really got me was the, I mean, the world is just, it's changing so fast and not in a good direction. And That's what really brought me to him. Yeah. St. Augustine says that our hearts are restless until they rest in you. I think that that's true for everybody on this earth. We're restless trying to figure this out.

While the world throws more and more confusion at us and all these different elements that are going on, it's exactly what's happening is that we're looking at outwardly at the world, being like, oh my goodness, this feels like utter chaos. Well, God's beautifully bring us back to the center of our true calling, which is where peace exists. It's knowing that God's peace is there

right in the midst of the battle, right in the midst of the fray. All the way up into the day that we die, like God wants us to be peaceful. He's not asking us to be anxious. And I think that men are doing that whole frantic, like where do I go? Where's my mission?

Where am I supposed to help out? Am I supposed to go here or there? The world's falling apart. I don't agree with anything that's going on. And ultimately something happens where they recognize the beauty of God and they say, wait a minute, I'm supposed to pay attention to that.

And it's the spark of faith. It's again, God's grace is working in a multiplicity of ways that he draws us near to him. You know, it's the prodigal son. The prodigal son goes out, he goes into the debauchery and spends everything in inheritance. He's eaten out of the trough for the pigs and ultimately recognizes in that tough moment of despair

That he needs the father's love And so that's our journey in a small glimpse. We're out toiling around Seeking something in the world squandering our inheritance blown it all the way turn it away from the father and Ultimately, we're led back to Him. And there He is with open arms, waiting for us, gazing out on the horizon, waiting to receive our life back so we can rebuild and reestablish what was meant to be.

And that's the relationship between God and His children. You know, the love and the truth and beauty that He has for everybody here. You know, everybody listening to this. and his children, the love and the truth and beauty that he has for everybody here, everybody listening to this. It's an undeniable truth. As soon as you start looking in, as soon as you open your heart and you say, okay, what is going on here?

Let me close my eyes and pray for like 30 seconds. I always say, get a rep in, you're moving closer, you're saying yes, you're not denying or rejecting, you know, what God's love is. You have nothing to lose to pray and ask for God's wisdom. Nobody has anything to lose. If nothing happens, you didn't lose anything, but God will still work as grace is in an indirect way.

But I, yeah, so. Well, brother, I think this is a perfect time to start to wrap things up after that and so I Know you want to end with with a prayer. Yes, let's do that. All right, awesome Heavenly Father We just thank and praise you so much for allowing us to get together today Heavenly Father, we just thank and praise you so much for allowing us to get together today

to be able to share stories, wisdom, and our experiences throughout this life. Lord, I pray that everyone listening that's going through any type of struggle is just lifted up and encouraged a little bit by what we spoke about today. Lord, I ask that you continue to look over Sean, his family, especially his new daughter,

that you lift them up, that you protect them, you guide them in faith and truth, and that you continue to use this platform to change lives, to draw people closer to the love that you are showing us, and to bless everybody here, especially those that are really going through adversity right now to give them faith and hope and trust in you. Lord, I ask that you continue to build up a brotherhood, that you continue to build up men and women that are willing to step into the breach, to protect our children, to teach our children, to encourage each other, and not to continue to put people down, but to lift people up as much as we can,

so we can live in the fullness of your graces and your glory. Heavenly Father, we love you, and I just thank you so much for this opportunity to be here today, and may God bless all of you. Amen. Amen. Dom, thank you. Thanks, brother. And I just want to say, man, that you are a righteous dude.

And this is one of the most meaningful interviews that I've ever done. And it's just so good to reconnect with you. Yeah, absolutely, bro. It was a real honor, man. It was, man. Thank you. Yeah. Are we still recording? We're still recording.

Give me a hug. Love you too. I'm just gonna keep it awesome. Thanks, man. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks, man.

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