Shawn Ryan Show - Navy SEAL Debates Liberal on Defunding The Police

Episode Date: November 1, 2020

Shawn Ryan of Vigilance Elite and The Shawn Ryan Show former Navy SEAL and CIA Contractor debates a liberal / democrat on defunding the police. The "Defund the Police" movement has been, and continues to be one of the most controversial topics of 2020. The great thing about the United States of America is everyone has the right to freedom of speech and the right to their own opinion. We must learn to respect that once again. Shawn Ryan and the unidentified Liberal display an example of a civilized debate where each opinion is respected despite the public outrage and lack of respect that we continue to see in today's media on controversial topics such as this. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website - https://www.shawnryanshow.com Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/VigilanceElite TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnryanshow Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shawnryan762 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm gonna shoot a shoot. You're gonna fucking kill me, aren't you? Mm-hmm. So it's a, I do not and will not agree with this narrative that the police are just currently constantly under, they're at war and that they are under fire all the time and that they're, they're being hunted. It's just not fucking true. The data, there's no data to support that. Well, there is video footage of Los Angeles

that just happened a couple of weeks ago of a man that walked up to the vehicle and shot two fucking officers in the head, correct? Shadow Cabal, fucking like really violent protesters that are just there to incite violence. I think that's bullshit. I participated in some of those protests. It's peaceful. A protestor in Portland who threw a Moltov cocktail at a fucking cop. cop tail at a fucking cop. But he missed, and the fucking thing set his own leg on fire.

Who saved his ass? The fucking cop saved his ass. Didn't he? There's some good. You want to go protest? Go ahead. Let me put your fucking leg out. Then you can throw another fucking malls off cocktail.

Then so maybe it is maybe we do maybe we defund them and we pull them out of all of the neighborhoods that don't want them And they'll just sort it out I think that would go poorly. I think that will go extremely fucking poorly But sometimes you know maybe the best thing to do is just let people live in what the fuck they created. Yeah, no, I agree with that. Yeah, from what they want. If you don't want any police, you won't get any. Not. So, policing in America, something I thought was really interesting, uh, based on statistics from the FBI.

In 2019, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in line of duty. Forty eight of those data as a result of feloness acts, 41 of those died in accidents. However, they killed 1348 people in the US alone. So, looking at that, I think there's a big, the police think they're at war. A lot of the training, I see kind of pushes that narrative. But based on the data, it looks like police are actually rather safe in their line of work and that their civilians are not. So with that in mind, and with the fact that, you know, we've seen from 2010 to 2015, one billion dollars has been paid out in public lawsuits over police misconduct. And with the recent protests, there's been 10,600 demonstrations linked to the ACLU, and 95% of those were peaceful.

And fewer than 570 or 5% of them involved demonstrators engaging in violence. So I guess we're getting at it here is the, like the narrative it seems is on one side you've got the police who feel, you know, that their job is very dangerous. And they're not well liked, on one side, you've got the police who feel, you know, their job is very dangerous and they're not well liked, but from the civilian side, it looks like they're

fucking civilians up. I mean, what do you think about that? Well, for starters, what were those statistics again? So you said, you said, did you give a percentage of how many black lives matters, uh, protests wound up violent? Uh, yes. That were linked to black, the protest itself was linked to black lives matter. 5% of those, uh, out of 10,600 recorded demonstrations,

5% of those resulted in violence. So I wonder not that this is an excuse, but I wonder how many police calls there were, how many times they responded to something and what the percentage of that wound up being bad. Yeah, so I mean, that is something to account for the, you know, police do interact with people a lot. And so, you know, maybe the, the statistics gone like, it probably seems to be that

the overall majority of police interactions with civilians are nonfatal. But following back on what the FBI said, you know, there are instructors that go around, I'm sure you know some of them that teach police training and a lot of that narrative is pushed that they like have a very dangerous job, they're war. And I think that's the wrong way to go about it. I don't think that's the type of precedent

you wanna set for the police. You don't think that's the type of precedent you want to set for the police. You don't want to put them in that mindset. And especially when I can't personally reconcile that 89 law enforcement officers were killed in the law and duty, half of those being accidents, not related to crime. But over 1300 civilians were killed by police. Yeah. That's pretty staggering to me. It is staggering.

I really, I would like to know the statistics, the statistics of, you know, if we're gonna talk about percentages, you know, what is the actual percentage of police responses that have gone bad. Is it 1%? Is it half a percent? Because if anybody is looking for a perfect percentage,

100% perfect, that just isn't gonna fucking happen. Nothing is perfect. People will fucking die and that's unfortunate, but I would like to know that percentage. And I think it's unfair to know the percentage of how many BLM protests went bad, which is only 5% correct. And that's, I mean, pretty good. I think we need to know that percentage as well. You know, the other percentage is it is it 5% is it 1%? And, you know, as far as like the fatalities that they're responding to, what are they responding to? You know, I mean, I don't believe they think they're at war, but with that being said, please don't get called to respond just to bullshit, a smoke detector that's out of batteries.

What are they being called to do? Domestic disputes, domestic violence. Look at the crime stats in the areas where they the in the areas where they, you know, where the where the shit's happening. What are those like? If you go in there thinking everything's just going to be just fine, you know, like with Chicago, for example, certain neighborhoods of Chicago violence there is through the roof. And their gun laws that you can't even own a gun there correct so do you think? I want to ask you a question. Do you think it will be foolish? To go into that neighborhood into a neighborhood with a very high

homicide rate Thinking everything's okay. No, I think there can be a middle ground. I don't think police should look at civilians that they are meant to protect as enemies, all of them. And they shouldn't assume that every situation they're rolling up on, you know, you take to mere rice and Rayshard Brooks, you know, you take Tamir Rice and Ray Shard Brooks,

you know, these were kids. Tamir Rice was 12, I believe, and was on a playground with a toy gun, and he was shot by police. That's absurd to me. Bad intelligence, maybe. I mean, take, you know, another one, I think that's definitely on everybody tongue. Now is Brianna Taylor, you know, I think a big problem with that was they were operating on bad intelligence. Yeah, I wouldn't say, you know, and I think it does depend on my knowledge. Brianna Taylor, when they responded to that or or serve the warrant or whatever the hell happened, I'm going off opinion in your spitting facts and I'm taking your facts is 100% truth.

But they were fired upon first, correct? They were. So what are they supposed to do? May I ask another question in that regard? What is the homeowner who gets a no knock warrant, doesn't know it's the police, like any gun owning American has the right to do with a standard ground law, which Kentucky has? What are they supposed to do? They might want to ask who the hell it is before they fucking shoot.

What if that was her mom? What if that was his mom? What if that was his mom? What if that was a kid? They're just fucking gonna shoot blindly at the door for no fucking just, you know what I mean? Same deal with the cops. They shot into several apartments and that's what actually one of the officers got indicted on. But they shot after they were fired upon. I'm not sure of the round count, but I remember it being pretty high. Well, I don't know the round count either. But and that's extremely hard to backsy quarterback these things without actually being there or, you know, and getting the full scope of what happened, but as a person that's been shot at several more times

than I can count, shit goes out the window. When somebody is trying to kill you and that's what that person was doing was trying to fucking kill them for serving a warrant, they have to defend themselves. They have to defend their brothers, you know, and it's very, obviously, it's very unfortunate what happened. But, you know, when you're being shot at, you, you can't sit, you're making a decision, you're trying to make a logical decision

while bullets are flying past your head. And when bullets are flying past your head, the only thing you're thinking about is, I want to go home tonight. And I want my, you know, my, whoever the hell, you know, their colleagues, they whoever the hell they're, you know, their colleagues. They want them to go home tonight. They're, they're approaching that door for a warrant.

What was the warrant for? Do you know? It was an arrest warrant. I don't remember what the crime was. Um, but unfortunately, the, the, who they were serving the warrant to, they were at the wrong house and the person was already in custody. So bad intelligence. Now, it was that intelligence and there's no excuse for that shit. But they were being shot at and you can backseat quarter, you can backseat quarterback that guy too. You know what I mean? It sucks because you don't know the whole fucking context behind what what his thought process was.

But you know, generally, if I hear somebody tanning with my front door, I'm not just fucking slinging lead through the front door at whoever it is. You know, even if somebody broke into my house, and was in my fucking door entry, I would illuminate that person with a light and I would figure out who the fuck it is before I start throwing that down range at him. Wouldn't you? And so if somebody is shooting at you, they are trying to fucking kill you and they had to make a judgment call. to make a judgment call. Well, I think your tactics are the most appropriate to identify the threat before you shoot.

If we made that in the law, I think you'd have a lot of cases where homeowners did shoot somebody that was actually trying to break in and hurt them. Those would be overturned very quickly. Many, many people have, and that is why that standard ground logs is. And it's been shown in court cases by precedent that if in the middle of the night someone breaks down your door,

you can assume that they are there to cause imminent danger to your body. And that's where the cell defense comes in. So from, and I get it, I mean, I see it from both perspectives to your body and that's where the cell defense comes in. So from, and I get it, I mean, I see it from both perspectives of the police and the guy to the guy, I believe the court testimony said that they didn't hear knock, just heard the door bash in. So he grabbed, started firing.

Police said they knocked, announced themselves and then bus and got shot at. So yeah, it's pretty shitty situation. What I'm curious as of is if the police, it's a bad situation, but how did that, how did the guy survive? He shot at the police. How did he walk it out of there with his life? Yeah, I, you know, I don't know. I don't know where he was positioned. Yeah. Was she right next to him? Was she in the other room?

I don't know. And that, I mean, it's fucked up. There's no something you can't say like, oh, I'm not giving them a pass. What I'm giving them a pass on is, they fired after they were shot at. They didn't come in their guns blazing. They were fucking shot at and they returned fire.

Now, if they returned fire and she was standing right there, that sucks. If she was in another fucking room from where that guy was then I'm that's that's even worse You know and that's inexcusable and and it does it comes down to fucking training which nobody seems to want to pay for the man you had a discussion about this earlier Or you did your research and you said you you know, the funding goes to the equipment. It goes to fucking night vision. It goes to armored vehicles.

It goes to all kinds of shit, you know? And it doesn't go to training. And I found that out when I had a law enforcement agency asked me to conduct training for them. They just got night vision, dual, like, dual tube night vision, PBS 15s, which are about $10,000 a pop. And they did not want to pay me to teach these officers how to utilize night vision and and and

You know and that that proved to be right there. It's like what a second so you have the funding to buy your entire Fucking SWAT team 10,000 dollar pieces of night vision When to be honest with you. I can't fucking see a reason why you would need night vision in the middle of a major fucking metropolitan area. But, you know, whatever, they have it. And, um, But you can't pay a fucking trainer to come teach him, you know, and just for the record, my price was $350 per head. That's it, which I think is a very fair price considering the training that they wanted.

But I'm not the one making the rules, but that's, you can buy $10,000 or fucking pieces of night vision per officer. You can get these $200,000 fucking vehicles that you really don't need, but you can't afford to fucking pay me $350 to fucking train your officer how to utilize the fucking night vision. Now, help pathetic is that shit? And you know and kind of continuing on with that Part of you know, we had talked about earlier, but where a lot of the funding does go is

Is in the gear obviously? Night vision is not cheap from what you explained Um, not vision is not cheap from what you explained. But also it goes into settling public lawsuits over police misconduct from 2010 to 2015, according to Wall Street Journal, one billion dollars, uh, between the, between 10 cities with the largest police departments, some of those being like Los Angeles, New York, they paid over $1 billion, $1 billion in funds from the public for lawsuits. So given what, I mean, what you just told me, would you say that police are under trained? And if so, and if yes, fuck yeah, they're under trained. They're police are absolutely under trained. And so and if yes, fuck yeah, they're under trained.

They're police are absolutely under trained. There's too much fucking concentration on the fucking equipment that they have and not enough on the training. Like I just said, they want to spend fucking $10,000 per head to get the fucking guy's night vision. Right? You know, I don't think they need them. Who gives a shit would I think? But you can't fucking buy $10,000 pieces of night vision and then not fucking pay somebody to fucking train them how to use it. Like I said, my price was $350 to train them per head, how to use their night vision, how to do broom clearance, how to make entries, how to breach doors, whatever you want to, you know, how to operate under night vision. And they, they, they, they didn't hire me. There was too much, but they can afford $10,000 a fucking head for night vision. Now, what the real

fucking problem is is the accountability. It's across the fucking board. I think that's wrong with, what's wrong with America's fucking accountability. But, you know, what happened to George Floyd? You brought up George Floyd earlier, right? Now, what did we do? We fucking took that cop and threw his ass in fucking jail and don't give me wrong what he did is fucked up. I don't give a shit, you know.

People are saying, oh, yeah, well, that guy had a fucking rap sheet and he pointed a gun at a pregnant girl, right? Yeah, fuck, that just fucked up and he is a piece of shit. I don't give a fuck what anybody says. He put a gun to a pregnant woman's fucking stomach. Your piece of shit. Now the facts are, he, whatever the fuck happened in the past, that has been dealt with.

Correct? That's done. That's over. He's fucking paid the price. I don't know what the hell he did. If he went to fucking jail or prison or whatever the hell happened, you know what I mean? He's done. He has paid the price for that and he is a fucking free man now, right? So you don't take a free man and fucking put your knee on the back of that fucker's neck and kill him For what did he do? I can't remember he he was a boney checker something. Yeah, phony $20 bill kind of it bills Well, they were called you don't fucking do that. It doesn't matter what he did in his past at that point It's he has paid the price

He is you know his justice has been served for whatever that incident was that he did in his past, and he is now fucking free man and was not treated as such. Now what do we do? We fucking threw the guy in jail, you know what I mean, and they prosecuted him or whatever the hell happened. But where's the fucking accountability? That guy had, if I remember correctly, he had a lot of disciplinary actions against him, correct?

So what the fuck happened to the chief of police there? What the fuck happened to a supervisor? What the fuck happened to the mayor who's not on top of the fucking police department there? Nothing. Not a fucking thing happened to anybody above that guy. Did it? No, what did they do? They took the, they took the easiest fucking road they could and they got the grunt and everybody else walks when the fucking documentation is there. The documentation is there and nobody's fucking talking about that. Are they?

So with that, you know, a big problem that leads into that is police unions and call off out immunity. Police unions are extremely powerful. I think it was in Los Angeles County alone in 2019. Over a thousand officers were fired for misconduct but 458 of those, their cases are still in arbitration, so they're still patrolling the streets. And that's because of the enormous power they have in backing by police unions and

qualified immunity. And I think this is a good thing to talk about, especially where the contrast is, you know, I think about the military, you know, you, you've been deployed and at least from, from what the news that's available to the public. And some of the most harsh conflicts, you know, Vietnam, maybe a little bit different story, but generally the military holds themselves pretty well. They, they, and especially given that they're in a war zone, the way they're able to police and especially with the Iraq war, be able to police and handle a civilian population without a lot of needless killing. Why is it that

the, and maybe you can give me more on this because I just don't know. But the rules of engagement seem to be stricter for our military, you are in war zones where we have said that we're at war here. The rules of engagement seem to be stricter than that of our own domestic peacekeeping force. That doesn't make any sense to me. And I don't know, could you elaborate on that? As far as accountability goes, are the rules of engagement? What are they for the military? And what does accountability look like if you break those rules of engagement?

Well the rules of engagement, they change. They change all the time. They change with who the president is. They change, you know, they change for a situation, per area of operation. Generally the rule of thumb is do not fire until fired upon if it's just a regular gunfight, which happens all the time. But now if it's a capture kill mission,

that's completely different. And I'll tell you what, what, what generally dictates rules of engagement are where you're operating. So if you're operating in an environment where it is extremely hot and it is known that there is, it's extremely heavy Taliban or Al-Qaeda or ISIS or whoever the the fucking threat of the year is, you know, those are always get loosened, you know, because it is so fucking hot. And I think that's what people don't understand about. That's where I'm definitely going to take the police officer's back is, you know, I'm sorry, but responding to a well-to-do wealthy neighborhood with a fucking low crime rate, like Franklin, Tennessee, you don't have to fucking, you know, be as worried about what's going to happen to you wearing that uniform.

Now, you go into what East Nashville, is that where it is? Antioch, that fucking neighborhood. Every fucking morning I turn the news on, there is another murder. At least one, every morning. That's what I drink my coffee to. I wanna see who's murdered in Antioch yesterday morning. Now, if you're a police officer responding to an incident and fucking Antioch,

guess what, you're gonna be a little more amped up, aren't you? Because the fucking crime rate is through the roof there because nobody can seem to get a handle on it. Now, you know, people are going to, when you're stressed, you know, and you're under pressure like that, and maybe your life is under duress, you don't have time to sit there and weigh the options. You have to react to save your fucking life and that's it. And the bad thing about police now is they're, they're, they're, now they have even more pressure

on them because they're under public scrutiny. So not only are they, we've just chopped their legs off and you made it more stressful for them, you know, by talking about defunding them and the decision making process becomes, it becomes even more difficult or already stressed than, you know, they want to do the right thing. I honestly believe that the majority of police officers want to make a difference and they want to do good. Yeah, of course, they're fucking bad apples out there. I've seen them, you've seen them, I've shut they're all over the news, but as a police officer, you have to, you have to, I mean,

you can't backseat quarterback every single fucking incident that happens. You just can't do it. And and and at the beginning of this, I was asking you for percentages, you know, when we were talking about the BLM protest, 5%, only 5% of BLM protests went violent. I want to know the facts on how many police incidents went bad. I'll bet you it's less than 5%. I'll bet you it's less than 1%. That have been a very good fucking numbers. With all civilians in a whole of the country? I'll bet it's less than 1%.

I think it's kind of difficult to compare to the Black Lives Matter protests because those are an isolated movement versus a day-to-day policing of civilians that we've had in this country for, you know, gosh, I guess, nearly 100 years now. But, you know, it's still on the rules of engagement. I understand, especially, you know, with that, that the rules of engagement are going to change, depending on where you're operating.

But regardless, if you fuck up, if you, if you break that rule of engagement, whatever it is and wherever it is, is, is the system lenient for our armed forces? It's not, it's not lenient. And the reason you don't see that in the military is because the accountability system is so stringent that people know if you fuck up even a little bit, you're going to be breaking on rocks and leavenworth. So do you think there being consequence in the military, is that a contributing factor to why it's at least the knowledge is publicly available, are civilian casualties directly at least

and gunfights are low compared. You know, the police are operating in America and they're home turf where they live. And there's certainly not following the rules of engagements of, you know, don't fire unless fire to pawn, you know, especially with, you know, I look at in 2019 of those 1348 people that were killed by police, 55 of them unarmed. And since that data has only been tracked by the FBI since 2015 and 2015, it was 94 people were unarmed. What happens in the military if you shoot an unarmed person? I mean, that depends, you know, Osama bin Laden was in armed. Put it maybe in the situation of you're at a traffic stop, you know, sure you may have stopped some people in a vehicle in Iraq or, you know, wherever,

I'm sure that may have happened. There are times when you fucking kill them. Then the consequences for that are, that is, it's always situational dependent. Now, let me give you a scenario. All right, so you're familiar with car bombs, correct? So if I have a sign and you have, I have friends that have been, tons of friends

that have been killed by fucking car bombs and you can't tell if that's a fucking car bomb. There's certain signs you can see, you know, maybe the trunks on Toyota Corolla or the Taxi's Sunkin because there's so many explosives packed into the back of that thing. But if you have a fucking sign out and you have a translator yelling, you know, hey, don't fucking come any closer or you will be shot. There were signs everywhere.

If you come within 100 meters of this vehicle, you will be shot. And you have some fucking guy who ignores all of those warnings and is hauling ass of your vehicle and it fits the exact profile of a fucking suicide vehicle born ID a bomber, you know, then You're going to fucking shoot him. He's coming at you. He's gonna blow your ass up. Now sometimes there were no explosives in the car. Am I fucked up? No, and should I have taken the chance and go, well, boys, this guy isn't paying attention to the signs. He's not paying attention to the verbal warning. So let's just see how this pans out.

If he gets here and hits the button, we're all fucking dead. All right, here he comes. Hopefully this isn't one or do you fucking shoot him? You gave him a verbal, you gave him a warning, not to mention he's got lasers on his fucking chest. He has guns pointed directly at him before there's a shoot, right? Why would anybody keep driving towards a fucking vehicle that says, do not come within 100 feet or you will be shot and a verbal and people are thrown rocks and people are thrown water bottles. And he has lasers on him him and he has guns pointed out him would you like maybe assume that that's a fucking bomb that's getting ready to blow up me too and guess what you're gonna do you're gonna kill that fucker because it probably is a bomb now there have been times where it wasn't a bomb Now, there have been times where it wasn't a bomb. But what am I supposed to do?

Jeopardy's my fucking life because this guy can't fucking look at the context clues of what's about to happen, you know, and then there's the argument, well, maybe he can't read. Okay, well, there's a fucking verbal. And here's the biggest sign that's universal, no matter where you're out in the world. If there's a gun pointed at your fucking head, you know that probably isn't a good idea to proceed, right? So there are situations where innocent people die, you know, because, because of, you know, a poor decision that they've made. I think it's important to distinguish the context.

I mean, you are in that situation, you were at war. That's much different than, you know, this most recent shooting in Kenosha where the guy was shot in the back, walking to his car where he may have had a weapon, may have had a weapon. That's a totally different situation. And again, I think the enormous restraint to that our military shows in war zones

where they don't kill people is incredible. Given that, you know, they're not home. They're in a place where they have been briefed that you were here to fight a war and eliminate a threat. The police are briefed to protect and serve their communities that they live in. Protect and serve. Now, Kenosha, let's tell me the facts. So then he was shouting the back, what were they responding to? They were responding to domestic call. The guy did have a rap sheet. I think I believe he had a warrant out for...

A domestic violence call. And he had a warrant personally for, I think, sexual battery. Yeah, sexual battery. What is sexual battery? You know, it's a lower degree of sexual assault. Okay. So he has sexually assaulted somebody in this past and they're responding to a domestic violence call.

Okay. and they're responding to a domestic violence call. Okay. And I don't know every single detail, but there was an altercation with the police. He attempted to seem like he was attempting to flee. And about police testimony, they thought that he may have been going for a weapon in his vehicle, which housed his two children. And they opened fire and shot him seven times in the back. Okay. Before getting to the vehicle, that by precedent, it actually happened in Knoxville, Tennessee, I think two, three years ago, the police shot a fling suspect in the back who is on arm.

You cannot shoot, one, you can't shoot on arm people and you can't shoot fling suspects. You can't do it. It's about court precedent. That's what the law has set. So looking at that situation, and again, this is all in contrast are military. It seems our military, with what you just described, there are a lot of warning signs before they actually go lethal. The police have been more and more in all these situations. We see skipping the taser, skipping, putting time, distance, and cover between them, and what could be a supposed threat. And they're immediately going for a gun.

You know, and I think personally a lot of that is to do with that, the military does have a stronger accountability system. If you fuck up in the military, you go to prison for it. And, you know, with the police in America, when they kill someone that first, they get to go home. If I kill somebody, where I'm suspected of killing somebody, I don't get to go home. I'm taking to jail and I'm held on with or without bond. Please get to go home with pay.

And there's an investigation that takes place. This is where kind of the qualified immunity comes in. Now while they're obviously I think there should be, you know, the police and civilian should have some different expectations. I think it is a little, it just doesn't, it doesn't make sense to me that we expect less violence from our men and women serving in war zones around the world, but our peacekeeping

forces in our own country are not held to those same standards. They're not. I think we're missing a lot of context with this. I really do. You know, okay. Now, what I want to say is if you have been reported for a domestic violence call, which this guy knew why they were coming. I'm not saying this was a good shoot. So I want to be very fucking clear on that. I'm not saying this is a good shoot. But you just beat the shit out of your girlfriend and the cops are on the way. You know why they're

on the way, right? You know why the fuck they're coming over. They're coming over because you just beat the live and shit out of your girlfriend. Now, they show up and they say, get your fucking hands in the air now and you're at gunpoint. What are you gonna do? Put my hands up and you're gonna put your fucking hands up, right? You're not gonna go turn around and start digging in your car. Are you? No. Because why not? They might think that you're getting a gun. And if they think their life is in danger, they are going to fucking kill you to save their

own life and the life of their partner, which is exactly what they should do if it's real. Now, I don't know the context, Clues. I don't know how far away that guy was from the vehicle. I don't know if the taser was even within the effective range, taser might not have been an option. I don't know. And tasers do fail.

I don't know how long on many people that doesn't. But so, you know, being a responsible civilian, even if he did beat the shit out of his girlfriend, all I guarantee you, they didn't just fucking shoot him. They probably said, stop, put your fucking hands up, get on the ground. Right? I seriously doubt they just showed up and this dude just turned around and they just fucking shot him. I guarantee you there was some kind of verbal.

Yeah, I believe there's a verbal, you know, there were orders given. But with that being said, I'm not excusing that. I'm just painting a scenario. Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, that's funny. You're a police officer. You're going to respond to a call

if somebody who already has whatever assault or battery or sexual assault, so I can't remember what we were just talking about, but it was something with violence. And now you're responding to another call with the same individual, which once again is violence. And I'm just trying to paint you a picture that is different than what we've all seen.

Now that being said, was there a gun in the car? I don't know. You know, it was obviously a fucking bad shoot. And that sucks, it does. But you do have to keep in mind their mindset and what they're responding to. And just like what Travis House was saying, you know, earlier, I mean, one minute he's on the, he's in the middle of the street, getting his face beat in, you know,

by a fucking criminal. And then two minutes or not two minutes, five minutes later, after that one's done, he's responding to a call of a lady with a fucking smoke detector. And she's all, she's all pissed off because he's in a bad mood. But what she doesn't see is he was literally fighting for his fucking life in the fucking street, five minutes prior to, to, to responding to that call. You know, and no human can be trained to overcome that. We're not supposed to have to deal with that kind of shit as human beings. Do you think that, I mean, but would you agree with the sentiment that, and this could

be for a lot of reasons training being probably the bulk of it and accountability, I think, being another part of it? But our military does seem to handle these situations better. They do. I mean, you served. So I wouldn't know. And honestly, a lot of that information, like the nitty gritty of the like, it's not, we don't hear about it. It's can't find anything on it. But I didn't, I haven't read any mass. You know, there was, and there's this like

comparing Apple's oranges though, you know, is it? I'm a fucking seal. I've had millions and millions of dollars worth of training. Shit, it takes three years worth of training just to get out the fucking door and be able to even go to war and serve your country, serving in a unit like I served in, you know, now, if, you know, if, and, and, and I'm fortunate enough to be able to, you know, to have served in that capacity, but I don't think that we can spend, you know, $5 million, training every street cop out there. So that's why I'm saying it's, it's a little bit different, you know, we can't even get these guys am old to fucking train with to get proficient with their guns These guys are a lot of these guys

that are They're paying for their own training out of their pocket a really good cop is paying for his own fucking training Out of his pocket and we all know cops get paid shit You know, so yes, they do. They need to fucking up the training budget. And I do think this goes back to accountability. I mean, yes, the George Floyd case, the Kenosha case, like, yeah, those guys, the guys on the ground,

they definitely need to be held accountable. But you know who else needs to be held accountable as the fucking is the politicians, you know, who aren't overseeing their different departments. Why aren't they allocating a fucking training budget? I think that the police budgets are, they've actually continued to grow, especially here in Tennessee, and they do spend it on things like a Nashville, I remember two years ago, bought a mine-resistant vehicle. That's what it was labeled as in the news report.

A mine-resistant vehicle needed in downtown fucking Nashville. There's a lot of mines there. I'm scared. And so I think you've got, you've got police unions that are systemically just too powerful and they're not able to fire bad officers. It's not able to do it.

There's, I watched the body cam footage myself. There was a police officer in Severe County, small county, low crime rate county. My mother covered this story. He had a, he was there to serve an arrest warrant on somebody missed their court hearing, the failure to appear. And the guy walks out his front door with a cell phone in his hand,

cops start shooting, thankfully nobody dies, misses him. The on body cam has a panic attack drops his gun as a panic attack. EMT show up. He's having a panic attack and they give him back his gun. And he continues on and it's a bad situation. But everybody leaves alive, thankfully, but severe County was unable to fire that police officer and turns out he had been fired from two other departments coming to severe County.

So police, because of police unions, what they've allowed before, police departments are not required to report that they fired officers or the conduct. That's what bad officers get into some of these departments. It's very easy to do. So you know, I do think the problem is systemic for sure. I think it's not just cops are bad. I think that's a gross, you know, simplification of it that, you know, things like defund the police and shit have done. But I do understand you on

that, you know, I do understand where the terminology comes from because the goal of defunding the police is actually to redirect these overinflated police budgets into community policing and, you know, I think mental health is something that is, you, police respond a lot of mental health calls. They're like homeless folks, especially. And they're acting erratically. They will not respond to verbal commands. And as we've seen historically, that's how shit gets violent.

If they don't comply, that's when the police have to use some type of force. And unfortunately, sometimes it leads to lethal force. But I think this moves on to a bigger point is that do you think we do ask too much the police? Do you think they're spread too thin for what they're trained for? I don't know if they're spread too thin. I think the budget needs to be redirected to where it needs to go. I think, I hate the word defund, but I think there are things that we could do.

I mean, look, you're never gonna have a good encounter with a cop that's not with. There are two, enforce the law. And if you're breaking the law, you're gonna have an encounter with a cop. That's just the fucking way it is. Nobody has good experiences with police officers. Very few, but I think the budget needs to be redirected

to where it needs to go. I think there are things that we could do to minimize exposure with police, which people have different, St. Louis did it. I believe it's St. Louis traffic cameras, you know, you don't want to deal with the cops. Okay, we're going to put fucking cameras on the red lights and we're going to put speed traps on. Oh, but then when you get a ticket, guess what? That doesn't fit your fucking agenda. And so we can't have that. So what do we have to do? We have to bring all the fucking cops back to be able to write, you know, basically turn them into

meter maids. Oh, you got a speeding ticket. Oh, you ran a red light. And then now, now we have a ton of interaction that doesn't even need to happen because we as civilians just fucking through a temper tantrum because we got to pay a $50 fucking red light ticket because we ran a red light and there's a picture of our car running a red light. You know what I mean? So we've tried that and nobody wanted it. You know, and now you see what I'm saying though, I mean, if you increase the amount of, you know, interactions that police have with civilians, that by statistical fact will lead to more, there will be more violence because there's just more interactions. And I think that's completely fair. And I think that's completely fair.

You know, and I think there are, and that's kind of I think. Where is that also disagree with too? I think it's the worst fucking like phrase they could have gone with, but redirecting the budgets and auditing them, frankly, because there's waste from our defense department. We know, we know there's waste from our defense department. We know we know there's waste there. There's waste in our police budgets. There's waste in our city budgets. We're really fucking bad about that. I don't know why, but we are. I got a friend who is a little off topic, but had a friend who, uh, part of the National Guard and before their budgets roll over, he had to go out with his

unit and shoot fucking bullets into the ground to get rid of ammunition so they could their budget wouldn't get, you know, they didn't have a surplus and get cut thousands and thousands of dollars of ammunition. It's fucking waste. Yeah. You know, so I think I'll look at it more like let's, you know, audit this shit, you know, so I think I look at it more like let's you know audit this shit, you know Let's let's see where really like that police department buying night vision in a metropolitan city Probably a waste of fucking money

It's absolutely a fucking waste of money and I bet that money could go to you know But they could have done instead of By every member of the SWAT team fucking night vision for $10,000 a pop is gone white light and give everyone the best fucking training that they could receive. All it could have gone used guys like me, I could have used guys like Ronan tactics. There's a ton of them out there, you know, Mike Glover with Fieldcraft. I mean, these are guys who were operating at the fucking pinnacle of tactics, of entering houses, clearing rooms, and, you know, they could have done that. They could have used that

budget for those fucking night vision goggles and put it into the training and done white light, which would be better anyways considering, I don't know any cities that have zero power or anybody that cuts the power to where they go and you operate faster on wildlife anyways but they didn't want to do that. I think where there's a breakdown is because we've been a war for almost 20 years. People are starting to see they for some fucking reason, people are comparing police to military to fucking much it's completely different we need shit that they don't need and they're seeing what we use and they think that they need what we use and they do not need that they're not fucking operators they're police officers who are supposed to protect and enforce the law.

And I think, you know, I do believe that, you know, the vast majority of law enforcement does that very well. Now, yes, there are fucking bad apples. And we've seen that, but I think I'm getting off topic here, but I think redirecting the budgets to where they need to be and quit with the bullshit, you know, we're not in fucking Yemen over here, we're in the US. We don't eat a lot of that shit. What they need is fucking training and and and as far as and and accountability. We need fucking accountability and not just at the lowest level. If an officer

shoots somebody in the back and that person dies and that was a bad shoot and there is no excuse for it which sometimes on there is a fucking excuse for that. I'm sorry, but there is. But if there was no excuse for it, more people need to be held accountable than that one particular officer. A fucking, they need to dig into his background like the one guy, you know, why are you there? You have this many disciplinary actions you're fired from that many fucking departments.

Why was that, you know, you can run a fucking background check on me. Why can't they run a background check on who the fuck they're hiring, you know? So whoever does the hiring, maybe they need to be held accountable. Why the fuck was this guy hired? Why is the mayor not overseeing this shit?

Why is the chief of police not seeing this shit? You know what I mean? You're fucking people, right? But that's not happening. And then we also need accountability as civilians. I'm sorry. But if you're told to get your fucking hands up, then put your fucking hands up. Don't run away. Don't start digging through your car and shit. That's, I mean, they're going there already, already stressed the fuck out hoping that they don't die, you know, or get shot. And so the minute you give them, you know, you make them even more nervous, they have to make a judgment call.

And we are humans and you're not always going to make the right judgment call. So if you fucked up, and we are humans and you're not always gonna make the right judgment call. So if you fucked up, own it. Just like we were talking about earlier, you fucking own that, you know? If you get pulled over for speeding, you're not just digging around and all your shit when the cop comes up, you already know.

It's all over the news. You know, put your fucking hands on the steering wheel. If you're a CC doe, if you're carrying a concealed weapon, you go, Hey, I just want to let you know I have a concealed weapon. That's right here on my pants. Or it's in that glove box. Are you sure you want me to reach in that glove box and get my fucking insurance out of there. Sadly, we, you know, on that specific instance, we saw a full on the castro that bury thing and it's on tape where he said, I've got a firearm in this location.

I didn't fight it. And when going for his wallet, as instructed, two by the police officer, he was open-fired upon why there's a kid in the car and his wife's sitting next to him. He died. That cop is not in jail. So I think we're failing on the accountability desperately. And I want to talk more about accountability before I do training specifically. You had said, you know, you went through millions of dollars of training and

it took you, I mean, it would just say years, I think you said to it. It's going to take you three years from joining the military. If you're going to be a seal, it's going to take you three years at a minimum to get out the door and go fight the war because you need that much training. Two and a half, three years. You were from Florida, correct? I'm originally from Missouri. Missouri, okay. Well, speaking of, you know, training and like we invest very much in our military. And I think that's a good thing we need to. Our police not so much.

Florida, the hour input it takes to become a street cop, 770 hours by contrast, to be a licensed interior designer in Florida, it takes 1760 hours to get that license. 1760 hours to get that license. California, high crime place, 664 hours to become a police officer. 1600 hours to become a cosmologist. North Carolina, close to our state, 620 hours to become a police officer.

1500 hours to become a licensed barber. So somewhere along the line, we as a society have said, and I think this affects the type of people we hire to protect us and to enforce the law, you don't need a lot of qualifications, not a whole lot of training. And for damn sure, I know, and I think they should, the police do not have to have any type of law training at all, but they're supposed to enforce something that they don't know anything about. That's a problem to me. It's probably me that North Carolina and in this state, it takes double, more than double, the amount of hours to become a fucking barber. And it does to walk around with a badge and a gun and to fuck with people's rights.

And I think that's absurd. And I don't see how anybody on any political side of any spectrum can't look at that and think that's fucking crazy. It's crazy. I think so. I mean, I got nothing. I agree 100% with you. But you know, what's going to have to happen is the bug, we can't defund them. How many hours did you say it takes? In North Carolina, 620 hours. Okay. Well, if you defund them, now it's going to take 310 fucking hours. Did you say it takes? In North Carolina, 620 hours. Okay. Well, if you defund them, now it's going to take 310 fucking hours. And then it's going to get worse. And then we're going to defund them more. And it's going to be

155 fucking hours. And it's going to get even worse. You're going to have to give them money. Yeah. If you want, you just like anything in life, you get what you fucking pay for. And if you pay a person that you expect to protect the protect your life and uphold the law, fucking minimum wage, you are going to get shit as a product. Let's look at budgets. I mean, the state police budget for North Carolina, where it takes 600 and 20 hours to become a cop. Their budget in 2019. There's a few line items here.

I'm looking on the government's website, but it's several billion dollars. So I don't think it's a matter of that the money is not there I think the money is being just like with anything Just not being used very well. Yeah And I mean that just kind of seems to come with the territory of the Americans sometimes You know, it's just it the money It seems to be in few hands and I think a lot of it's going and done necessary gear.

A lot of it's going to settlements. A lot of it's going to their fuck ups. So the public can actually save themselves money by investing in more training. And I don't think it's also just a matter of, and then let me know what you think here. It's not just more training by frequency, it's also more comprehensive and the quality of the training.

I mean, I'm not a cop, I've never been through the police training, but most of the guys I went to high school with are cops now, and I can tell you, they're not very bright. So I don't think policing in general, as it stands, attracts a model citizen. It's not a fun job. It's a low paying job. But also, you know, I mean, do you think power dynamic is a problem? Do you think, do you think just the very nature of being a police officer can

in making it? Do I think that the power can go to their head? Sure. Absolutely. Do you think? Absolutely believe that. And anybody that doesn't can watch fucking Don Bradley's episode 003 and see what happened there. And do you think the solution, you know it. So we've kind of landed on, I mean maybe for the camera you can reiterate some of this but they need more and better training. They need stricter accountability and we can talk more about that too, you know, and. I think we need, I'm getting, getting, you know, to be a Navy seal, that was not an easy selection process. You had to prove yourself in very demanding training. I don't, I don't think we, we do as much there with the police in terms of, they'll

take anybody really. And some states having criminal record doesn't disqualify you from becoming a police officer, which that makes no fucking sense. Personally, I kind of get that because people do make mistakes. They know, they might want to better themselves, but regardless, I think so yeah more training, accountability, and we need to have higher standards when we're hiring people. And if we find a bad cop, we need to build a firearm and not have them tied up their cases and arbitration while the public is paying for it

because they've got a big ass police union behind them. And qualified immunity is a really, in its essence, I think, was a good thing. Like, you know, it essentially protected that they would place for performing within the line of their job, but it's become now just a blanket. So the cops seem to be getting and I think that's why you see. I don't think that they would be over 10,000 demonstrations in all 50 states, if there wasn't a problem.

Cause you know, on one hand, we can't say that like, especially in a my age group in generation, like, well, we're all fucking lazy and don't have the resolve to get any work done. But on the other hand, there's this like shadow cabal of fucking like really violent protesters that are just there to incite violence. I think that's bullshit because I participate in some of those protests. I did. Peacefuls. And I can honestly tell you that what we see on the news and what I have seen from my sister being a public defender and in listening to her cases

My mother being a reporter the cops fuck people up a lot unnecessarily and not not just murder You know that we've been we've been talking about police killing people You know police brutality does extend beyond that. So, you know, George Floyd was a prime case for that. Like many, in fact, Minneapolis had a outlaw that very tactic of, I think it's called the, the, the core toyed hold. I don't know if pronouncing that correctly, but chokeholds and those things have been outlawed in many states, including this one, but they're still used. And when they're used and someone dies, there's a lawsuit that the public pays for through our taxes, but the police face no criminal charges. Do you think the police, I guess my question on the accountability side of things is, have you, you know, you maybe have to name them specifically, but would you say there have been cases in

the last few years where the police have been under my microscope where criminal charges weren't brought but probably should have been. I know if I shot, if I shot someone in the back under any fucking circumstance. I'm going to prison. It'd take one hell of a defense attorney to get me out of that. Yes, I do, you know, I agree with you. Now, at the same time, once again, there are scenarios where you may shoot somebody in the back where it's completely

fucking justified. And I'm going to bring up that, I think it was Atlanta, that guy got shot. Was it McDonald's or some shit? Oh, Wendy's, yeah, I saw that. He took a fucking weapon out of a police officer's belt. Right there, you're done. You don't think that fucking guy didn't know better than to pull a weapon out of that police officer's fucking belt. And then, yeah, he did, he got shot in the back, didn't he? And yeah, he did, he got shot in the back, didn't he? Yeah, did he get shot in the back?

Okay, well, if I'm running away and I turn like this and point the gun at you and you shoot me in the fucking back, is that a justified shoot? According to court president, now I can always speak on the court cases that I personally reviewed.

My sister had a client whom a guy broke into her client's house, shot at him. He returned fire as the guy was turning to flee one of the rounds in him in the shoulder. Her client is now in prison for attempt of murder convicted. That's the law. Do you think that's right? No, I don't, especially in that instance, no. But if we're not gonna extend that, if the law will not extend that to civilians. If I'm sitting right here and I pull a gun out of my pants

and I go like this and I look this way and I start shooting at you, what are you gonna do? I'm gonna shoot at you. You're gonna fucking to do? I'm going to shoot at you. You're going to fucking kill me, aren't you? Mm-hmm. And I would go to jail more than likely. Maybe, maybe not. But I'm just saying that's a fucking justified shoot. I agree. But it seems that the law doesn't give civilians in similar situations the same benefit as it does the police. That's bullshit. I mean, you know, it's not right. And I think that's where a lot of the anger comes from.

But, but, you know, and that guy and the Wendy's, I gotta say, I agree with you there, but the dude did shoot a taser at the cop, a non-leath weapon. Does that justify murder? Fuck yeah, it does. Really? Now what if he would have fucking hit him with the teaser and now he's on the ground and capacitated and then he takes the gun out of his belt

and fucking kills him with that while he's tasing the guy. Some would say that's the job. There is no fucking way in hell. I am going to let somebody take a fucking weapon out of my belt, shoot me with it, and hope, you know what I mean, that no way. Part of the job is to give your life away

for fucking $30,000 a year. That is, though, that they take. That is what they sign up for. And that's the thing is I think nobody signs up for that. And I think that's where... What part of the oath says that? Oh, that's different for each city. I think that's where some of the disconnect.

I don't even give a shit about the oath. So I want to hear you actually say that. So I want to hear you say, I'm going to pull a taser out of your fucking belt. I'm going to shoot you with it. And you're going to sit there and take it and hope that I don't yank the gun out of your belt and fucking kill you with it while you're incapacitated on the ground as I'm tasing you. You're not going to defend yourself because that's part of the job. From the perspective of that I'm a police officer, the perspective of a civilian.

Either one. From a civilian standpoint, I can't also say because I think, you know, what I would do in the moment, I don't know, because at things you stated, you know, adrenaline and having to make split decisions. But I'm a civilian. I think where the disconnect comes from, and then this may just be a matter of a younger generation having to learn some hard truths

and that being, you know, police have been idolized in our culture. You know, since I've been a kid, there are movies about them. There's so much entertainment, surrounded them the reason they have and have had so much backing from the public is because And same with the military they're gonna do the job that no one else has the fucking guts to do and they're gonna do the hard thing and the right thing Even if it may cost them their lives. That is why We respect these people. And there's a social contract that

they're upholding, that they're enforcing. And when the people that we look at to enforce the law, even in the most dire circumstances failed to do so, the social contract breaks down. And there is no rule of law anymore. I want to go back though. Let's go back. So you would let somebody tease you. You would let somebody take a weapon out of your belt, shoot you with it, and capacitate you to the point where you are unable to defend yourself and with the possibility of them yanking another weapon out of your belt and fucking killing you with it Because that's the job

Putting myself in that try would you fucking kill that person who's trying to kill you? I don't think That's thing a guy run away from me pointing a taser at me would indicate that he was trying to kill me. Seems he was trying to flee from me and my partner's right there. It's not an easy situation. He yanked a weapon out of your belt. They fucking taser shot. A fucking taser. Do you know what happens when he gets tased? I've been tased. You can't fucking move. It's weird because

police say they fail off and then don't stop most people. I'm not going to take that fucking chance, not a chance in hell. I mean, that's, this is an interesting point because I think it, especially people like me, we have a different opinion on what we should expect from our men and women law enforcement. And my expectations may be unrealistic and may be. But the law, the law, the thing that they're supposed to enforce, it says you cannot shoot someone in the back. Court president has held that over and over again. And until it's overturned, that's the

fucking law. Marijuana is legal in many states. It's illegal here. It's the court president. That's the way the law works. Sucks, but that's the law. I think that's hard to ignore. I mean, your police officer, you're here to enforce the law. You're not there to die because somebody fucking shot you. That cop wasn't gonna die. How do you know that? And where's the fucking accountability for this civilian?

He's dead. Why did he fucking take a taser out of a fucking officer's belt? He took a stole a weapon out of an officer's fucking belt. Oh no, I mean, it was, where's that accountability? Like everybody seems to skip over that. I do think that is fair. And what I would say to that is a couple of things. One, the guy was fucking super

intoxicated. We do know that. And two, just the benefit that you give you you'd said earlier, you know, about making split decisions. If you're being fucked with the by the police and you give, you said earlier, you know, about making split decisions, if you're being fucked with the by the police and you don't want to be, are you going to defend yourself against the cops? If you don't feel like you fucking want to go with them, yeah, probably. So the same adrenaline, the same split, you know, second decision making, I think that becomes kind of a primal thing at that point, You know, I can't give you a good rate, like I'm not defending the guy.

I mean, he made a decision, and that decision costed him his life. That's right. It did. He made a fucking decision, and it cost him his life. And if you think that grabbing a gun out of an officer's or a taser,

which looks exactly like a gun when it's in the belt, out of a fucking officer's belt, and try to shoot him with it, is a good decision. I mean, that's fucking Darwinism, if you ask me. Yeah, not here. I am not going to allow you to kill me because of a fucking law that says, I can't shoot you in the back when you're shooting at me, not a chance in hell. And I don't think you would either. But here's the, and yes, you're right. You are agree with me.

But the problem there is that the accountability, and we've seen this with civilians. Yeah, I'm not gonna take that fucking chance and I am gonna fucking kill you. But I will, but that choice that I make will more than likely land me in prison. For the police, it doesn't. That accountability breakdown right there doesn't make any sense. Well, I mean, I think the only fucked up thing is that you would wind up in prison

and they would not, because you should not wind up in prison if that were the case. Your... Mass app? Simply defending your fucking life. Well, I just, I think it is kind of, I mean, and you know this from being instructor, I mean the, oh man, like it's drilled into you, you know, I'm a new gun owner. They made it very clear, very, very, very clear that if you fucking use deadly force, you better be 110% certain that is justified. Because it's not,

you better be 110% certain that is justified. Because it's not. You've just a little bit probably fucked and you will spend thousands of dollars and a good majority of your life trying to fight it to stay out of prison. The police have been in some pretty openly I don't know if you can say a question, I'm going to say bad shoots, clearly cold, blooded, murder, and they have walked.

And I think that's why civilians are so pissed off. I mean, that I can understand, but these incidents that we just discussed are the ones that are not going to be able to be in the right place. And I think that's why civilians are so pissed off. I mean, that I can understand, but these incidents that we just discussed, I, I, I just can't, I cannot jump behind the civilian mindset of, you shouldn't have shot him. Like, I just can't, I can't, I have to fucking back the police on that one.

No way in hell. I would have done anything different. Like I just can't, I can't, I have to fucking back the police on that one. No way in hell I would have done anything different. Well, I wouldn't let the guy get to my fucking gun out, but, but you know what I'm saying, if he did, and he was trying to shoot me with a taser and some, and it was going to incapacitate me to the point where he could pretty much have his way with me. I would have defended my life. I want to come home to my wife. I want to come home to my kids.

I want to see my fucking parents again, and I'm not going to let that piece of shit take that from me. When all he had to do is just fucking listenen and deal with it later. Yeah. You know, you know, you asked like, where is the accountability for, you know, it's obviously in that instance, where's the accountability for the civilian, the civilian one he's dead, but moreover, there are resisting arrest, accountability. Well, that was a resisting arrest. Sure, I mean,

Sure, fling, another charge. If you look at any arrest record from somebody who, that the cops have roughed up, oh my God, it's a mile long. They're, I mean, I can't even name them all, but there's a multitude of charges that they, they levy against someone when they resist arrest.

It's not just resisting arrest. There are subcategories within that. So there is accountability for civilians in that regard. The law is pretty clear. I mean, if the, as a civilian, if you interact with the police and they tell you to do something, you don't do it. You either get arrested for resisting arrest or failing, in fact, failure to comply or you lose your life. It's really no middle ground. You know, there's one in particular, one police shooting of a white man actually, that really, it's kind of when I, it made me really take a step back and say, hey, I think there's a problem with the police. And it's still out there. The police officer actually, I think it was like a month ago, we found not guilty of But it's a Daniel Shaver was his name. I would like you to watch this.

And his body can't work. That is body cam footage. I'll scan the ground, both of you. Lay down on the ground. Lay down on the ground. No wheel. No wheel. Go. Did I kill him?

Did they cut that shit out finally? Yeah. So surprise they took that shit out. But I've seen the video a ton of times. It's terrible. So there you guessed a villain who's on his fucking knees, crime. And their instructions are hard follow. You know, that's an impossible situation for a civilian.

They were called there because, so that's in a hotel. They were called there because someone said they saw him waving a gun outside his hotel window. They recovered no fire but They shot him on his knees and you've got four file officers with AR 15s Aimed at this one guy on his knees. I Don't see the fucking threat there, I guess. And when I, well, after I saw that, and the fact that that officer was, you know, it took forever to bring charges against him, but it's not fell guilty. That's a hard one for me to, I can't finally

justification behind that. That a man weeping on his knees, I'm sure people can be good actors, but younger guy weeping on his knees crawling to you. Very stressful situation for the civilian at that point, not a whole lot for the cop. You're surrounded by your team in a hallway. You have the tactical advantage in every regard there. Guys on his fucking knees. And they put holes in them and they walked. That to me looks like cold, blooded murder. That's a white guy. That's a white guy. So you can take the race factor out of it. I mean, does that seem like a good shoot to you? No.

And so it's, I think, you know, from where you see these demonstrations happening and just the general distaste for police is that, on one hand, yeah, you will see a questionable tough situation like the guy with the Wendy's who, yeah, probably shouldn't fucking grab taser out of the cops pocket. Probably shouldn't have done that. Cost him his life. Well, not probably. He should not have fucking done that. Oh, no, he yeah, well, yeah, he shouldn't have done that.

Sure. But the public is no longer willing to give, you know, the benefit of the doubt, the police officer because of shit like that. That man executed that guy on his knees. He executed him. That's what he did. And he walked. And I'd be damned if he doesn't find another fucking agency to become a police officer

out again. So I mean, I don't know what you want me to say to that, you know, fucked up. It is fucked up. And that's, well, I'm trying to put some trying to think, so I want to get you like a thing of peace, like kind of recapping what we've talked about. Like shit like that should not happen. And when it does, that's where accountability should come in. That cop probably, in fact, I'm no 100% certain should be tried for murder.

Men convicted. It's on video. But he wasn't. Then the public distrust, seeing shit like that, will only grow. And this keeps happening. You keep seeing unarmed people. Again, again, to wrap it back to some of the things we initially talked about, I do understand that police have a Danish job. I do understand that. And

just like, you know, when we had Travis and he yes, like, been some calls or, oh my God, life was in danger and then he had to go deal with an old lady, but this narrative that the police are just walking in Yemen is just not fucking accurate. They're not, they're not in Yemen. They're not in Iraq. They're in fucking the US of a, yes, there is crime, yes, there is murder, yes, there are dangerous people. But by according to the FBI statistics, it's not the police officers are not the target

of that violence. They're not. Only 48 officers died of feloness acts. 41 of accidents not related to crime in any respect. 1300 civilians killed. That's 10 times more. So it's a I do not and will not agree with this narrative that the police are just current, like constantly under they're at war and that they are under fire all the time and that they're they're being hunted. It's just not fucking true. The data there's no data to support that. Well, there is video footage of Los Angeles that just happened a couple of weeks ago of a man that walked up to the vehicle and shot two fucking officers in the head, correct?

Yeah. So, sometimes they are being hunted. Sometimes. Let's go back to Dallas, Texas. Do you remember that one? Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes they are being hunted.

And the guy who did that? What? Ex-police officer. Well, that doesn't... They are being haunted. And the guy who did that, what? Ex-police officer. Well, that doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't even, that has nothing to do with it. But that made me,

my point is they are in fucking danger. Am I saying all of them are in danger? No. Am I saying the guy that you just showed me was in danger? No. Am I saying, guy that you just showed me was in danger? No. Am I saying, I can't fucking excuse all of them. What I am saying is sometimes these guys

fucking deserve the benefit of the doubt. And that particular instance, no. He does. But, you know, he does. But, you know, and there are some places that are like a war zone. There are. If you look at the fucking statistics of Chicago and Detroit and St. Louis, there were more murders there than there were fucking dead in Afghanistan. But that is just as bad as a fucking war zone.

But those murders weren't carried out against police. They were carried out among Chicago, specifically, usually inner city gang violence, you know, rival gang members, not police, mostly civilians getting up bystanders getting killed. What happens when you interject yourself into a situation like that? It's tough shit. Right?

Yeah. The violence gets directed at you. That's what happens. If you interject yourself into that situation, then maybe it is. Maybe we do. Maybe we defund them and we pull them out of all of the neighborhoods that don't want them. And they'll just sort it out. I think that will go poorly.

I think that will go extremely fucking poorly. But sometimes, you know, maybe the best thing to do is just let people live in what the fuck they created. Yeah, no, I agree with that. You have them what they want. You don't want any police? You won't get any. None.

So look, you know, kind of recapping the police topic. So this is all really good, man. So I think we can all admit there's a problem. We are definitely seeing interactions between civilians and police going more violent and more lethal. It's just statistically happening. And there are, you know, in 2019, 55 unarmed people, unarmed, shot dead by police. By contrast to, like, you know, you're asking for this percentage, but like how many interactions the police actually have with civilians on a day-to-day basis? Yeah, that's probably a

small margin of error. The 55 lives then seems so small when you look into that way, to me at least. So it is a fucking dangerous job. It is, you know, and like I'm not trying to excuse all of them by any fucking means, but the police do a lot of good shit too. And that nobody ever looks at the good they do. They never do. All they look at is the bad. 55 people, I hate to tell you that is a fucking very, very small number. And unfortunately fucking people die.

They do, sometimes they die. And I'm not saying that's excusable, but it's never going to be perfect. It is never going to be perfect. And 55 people is a very fucking small number when you look at the grand scheme of people, of how many people live in the US? It was like 314 million or some shit, I think.

And so 55 people out of 314 million people was that percentage. It's never gonna be perfect. I'm sorry, it's just never gonna be fucking perfect. That number is pretty fucking close be perfect. I'm sorry, it's just never going to be fucking perfect. That number is pretty fucking close to perfect. I would say that, you know, the the total death count being, you know, at 1300, yeah, that that margin of error is pretty low.

But and yeah, and then that should be by numbers, yes, 55 is low. There's always room for improvement and there's definitely improvements that need to be made. A hundred and fucking 10% I am with you on that. There's no doubt. There's always room for improvement. They need more, you know, they need, we need to hold them accountable, you know what I mean? When things are fucked up, I call

them accountable in what way? I want to hear specifically on that. I mean, that guy, the video that you showed me, I mean, that guy needs to be tried. Now, you know, and even, even commenting on that video, I don't know the fucking context of, of what happened before that. I don't, I don't know if there were more people in the room. I don't know the fucking context of what happened before that. I don't know if there were more people in the room. I don't know, and I'm not saying that excuses in many ways because chances are it doesn't. But yeah, I mean, be held accountable won't weigh in the same way they fucking hold civilians accountable.

That's the way they need to be held accountable. But, you know, you can't fucking tell me that shooting somebody in the back isn't fucking justified, you know, and under certain circumstances. That's just not true. It's not fucking true. And, and, you know, they do have a dangerous job. They have an extremely dangerous job. They need more training how to conduct business doing that kind of a job. And we don't give them enough credit either for what they do. I don't believe we give them enough credit. I also don't believe we hold certain ones accountable, you know, to the standard they

need to be held accountable to. But yes, there's a problem and here and here are the core problems one, you know training and accountability and the solution to this problem is you know Well increased training, but like the quality and caliber and type of training and accountability as a system as stringent as our military. I just think it should almost be more.

It really is fucked up, maybe just because I'm so far removed from it. It does not bother me one bit to think that, you know, we probably shot some unarmed people and fucking our act because we sent you over there to fucking go to war. We did that. Our country fucking sent you there to go to combat. It's a different fucking ball game. Run around fucking Nashville. Like, shit me, man. Like it's a, it's a different place. There are different circumstances for the different mission. You're absolutely right, but I'm telling you like the context,

you have to take the context. I'm saying the context is in your favor, not the cops. the context. I'm saying the context is in your favor, not the cops. That's what I'm saying. The context of being in Iraq at war, you fucking up there makes sense. Routine traffic stop in a city you fucking work the beat on every day. And you shoot a dude several times, it turns out he's unarmed. Oh no. Context seems to be kind of, yeah. The, the, it would make sense to me if you walked up to a car that you don't know

if there's a fucking bomb in there or whatever, and you would expect that type of thing because of where you're at. But I don't think you'd expect the same type of lethality from, you know, your everyday Americans civilian. No, you can't from your everyday American civilian, but if, you know, if you're responding to a fucking violence, a domestic violence call in Antioch where there's a murder every fucking night, that's different uh, petty theft and green hills. Is it not? It's fucking way different. And you are interjecting yourself into a domestic violence call.

And you're getting shot at now, you're at war. It's the same fucking thing. I don't know many domestic dispute calls and domestic violent calls and what the police getting shot at. Well, I'm not I'm just I'm just it's context. I'm just giving you context. You have to take into consideration where this is happening and where it's not happening. You don't hear the shift happening in areas where there's a low crime rate. You hear the shit happening in areas where there's a high crime rate, right? Generally, yeah, when there's a high crime rate the ball game changes, that's just They have to I mean they have to protect themselves as well and so you know, I

Kind of want to wrap this thing up, but um, yeah You know, I kind of want to wrap this thing up, but, you know, I don't think that demonizing police is the right thing to do. That's why I want to know this percentage. If the percentage is 0.5%, which is probably even less than that, I'm really willing to bet it's less than that. You cannot demonize an entire fucking police force for 0.5%. You just can't do it.

You know? And because you just chop the legs off of every other fucking cop out there who's trying to do good. and a lot of them are doing good You know we had a guy email he He is Under a indictment because he responded to a Call where a man drowned I

Believe his six-year-old daughter held her underwater. I Think they estimated like three or four minutes and Missouri Kansas City, Missouri. He fucking drowned his kid in a pond in the middle of December Below freezing that officer showed up and saved that little girl's life. The only way you saved your life is you know kids when they drown in a school of water they're easily revived but she was fucking dead. He saved her and then he knocked the shit out of the guy for drowning as fucking kid because his emotions got the best of them. Guess what? That dude's being held accountable for beating the shit out of that guy.

For saving a fucking girl and slapping a dude who drowned a six year old girl. It's weird how that works. That's pretty fucked up, isn't it? So anyways, what I'm saying is you cannot demonize an entire fucking, an entire occupation for, you know, the point, whatever percent that's bad. You have to, you know, reinforce the good and, you know, discipline the bad. And, and, and, and civilians, and discipline the bad. And in S-villians, we are not holding ourselves accountable.

It is unacceptable to Biancai weapon out of a cop's belt. It is onyx, if you are being called upon, but if the least responding to you because of a domestic thing, a domestic violence or whatever the fuck it is, you don't fuck around and dig around in your car. If they tell you to put your hands up, you put your fucking hands up and that's it. And you deal with it later. You know, you need, as civilians, you need to hold yourselves accountable and that's not happening.

That is not fucking happening. You know, at Galderon was just here, talked about a protester in Portland who threw a Moltov cocktail at a fucking cop. But he missed and the fucking thing set his own leg on fire. Who saved his ass? The fire who saved his ass? The fucking cops saved his ass Didn't he? There's some good you want to go protest go ahead. Let me put your fucking leg out

Then you can throw another fucking Moltov cocktail at me fuck you You know nobody's talking about this shit. It's only the bad. And that's making shit more dangerous. But, and then lastly, you know, I think defunding is the wrong thing to do. And you've said it to, you know, it's the wrong phrase. You need to, they need to redirect the budget to where it needs to go. And they need to hold the fucking others. They need to hold the politicians accountable as well. Not just the fucking bead cop that's on the street trying to do his job and made a fucked up judgment call, who's going to pay? Or maybe he's

not going to pay. I don't know. But you cannot just hold him accountable, not when there's a fucking record, you know, you got to hold a lot more accountable than that. And that's not happening either. So, you know, I think a, a, a, a, updated budget on where the funds are being spent is extremely important. I think accountability to the police is also important and I also think accountability to this fucking civilians is also important.

And, you know, if you're not willing to take accountability for your actions, then you're just a fucking piece of shit. But other than that, I don't know what else to say. It's a good shit, man. That's a really good shit. Especially that finger there. Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good shit. And it's true. It's all true. Celebrate the Black Friday sales event at Woodhouse Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram in Blair.

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So things are going well, I guess. Every Monday through Friday, Charlie Sykes speaks with guests about the latest stories from Inside Washington and around the world. You document in a very compelling way all of the positive things have come out of this, but it also feels like we have this massive hangover. No shouting or grandstanding. Principles over partisanship. The Bullwalk Podcast, wherever you listen.

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