Small Town Murder - #148 - A Deadly Recipe in Alturas, Florida

Episode Date: December 5, 2019

This week, in Alturas, Florida, a rural family deals with what appears to be an illness, running through the family, until a doctor notices a symptom that isn't exactly relevant to the flu. A panic forms in the community, only to find out that this attack is of a very personal nature, and very directed toward this particular family. This one has crazy around every corner!! Along the way, we find out that people don't write well in Florida, that Coca Cola probably isn't the medicine, and that murderers aren't always who you think they might be!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Alturas, Florida, where a mysterious illness takes hold of a woman and it turns out to not just be the flu. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us on another crazy edition of Small Town Murder. We are excited beyond words for this week. I'm Jimmy Westman. Thank you folks so much for joining us on another crazy edition of Small Town Murder. We are excited beyond words for this week. We have absolutely, we're in Florida, so you know it's going to be crazy.

It's always nuts. Yeah, but this is extra Florida. This is, we're going to call it extra strength Florida right here, I would say, if you put it on the shelf as a product. But before we get to that, I have to thank everyone for the reviews this week. That purple icon, Apple Podcast Reviews. We don't know why they help, but they do.

They help drive you up the charts. Also Stitcher, too. If you listen on Stitcher, those reviews, they help a lot. We have no idea why. They're a funky algorithm, but whatever.

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We understand it takes 30 seconds. You've got to sign in. But it takes a lot longer to put these episodes together. So thank you. That is much, much appreciated for everything you guys do for us there. Also, very important, head over to shutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. This is extremely important. At the end of the show today, by the way, when we're all done with the story, we are going to give you not the dates, but all of the cities we're going to be in this year.

And the tickets are going to go on sale next week before the next small town murder comes out. That's right. So we're going to announce one day. That is right next small town murder comes out that's right so we're going to announce one day that is right next day is pre-sale next so i mean that's the way it works so if you want to get in on that get the pre-sale or just you know get the tickets before because some of these places we are in smaller venues because we have to go other places and uh they're going to sell out strategic it's very strategic if we didn't get to your city it's not because we don't like your city,

even if we might not like your city, but we'd still go there. That's the thing. And there are some very new ones on this one. There's some new ones on there, but yeah, they map it out based on availability, availability of clubs, dates. It all has to line,

eight things have to line up for us to be able to go to a different place. It has to be on a weekend where Jimmy doesn't have his kids. It's literally, the stars have to align. So it's not like, well, we don't want to go to buffalo you know it's not it's not how it is i mean it's true it's true but we would still go trust me we're going to milwaukee yeah tomorrow we'll be in milwaukee so you know what we'll go anywhere you know or today if you're

listening right now listening on friday we're on the fucking plane right now do that check it out and uh you can go to shut up and give me murder.com is where you buy the tickets and all that sort of thing but to get your information early ahead of time follow us on social media at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook and at small town murder on instagram and uh that's that and if you want to be an even bigger hero of ours i mean we gushed about these people at the end of the show. It really is. Unable to really quantify in words. Absolutely.

Our producers, who we love so much, you can become one of those very easily by going to Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports or heading over to PayPal. And you can use our email address, which is Crime in Sports at Gmail dot com. And you can make a one time donation. And God is everything appreciated thank you guys for everything and we will get to that at the end of the show and we need to do the disclaimer though this is a comedy show it really is it's a comedy podcast we're comedians there will be jokes yeah there'll also be death yeah that's the thing that's it's a balance that we work here there will be both the stories are real we're not embellished for comedic effect or

sometimes it seems like they are yeah but no we just find crazy stories and then tell them to you and a lot of times the jokes kind of write themselves just the way it goes but what we try not to do what we go out of our way to not do is we try not to make fun of the victims or the victims families why because we're assholes yes but we're not scumbags that's how it works so that sounds good to you awesome if you think true crime and comedy and murder and jokes should just never be in the same place you're welcome to that i guess you've never watched the beginning of a law and order episode and jerry orbach stands over somebody and says a sarcastic remark but hey

yeah you know if you don't want to live in the real world that's fine thanks for trying us out it's not going to work but for everybody else who wants to have a good time and live in reality of life that's why that show's great by the way i mean and we have homicide detective uh like listeners a lot and they're when you deal with death there's a certain dark humor that takes place but you don't have to make fun of the victim or the family that sort of thing make fun of murderers small towns things like that it's fun we have a good time if you want that if you're into that, you're in the right place. I think it's time to sit back and shout, shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, Jimmy. Okay. Let's go on a trip. We may as well. Let's do it. The bag's already packed. We're here. Bags are packed.

Ready to go. Waiting for the Uber. Yeah. We are. We're going to Milwaukeewaukee very soon here so this is actually very true uh let's go on a trip we're going all the way to florida okay from new jersey to florida out of the frying pan into the fire let's just it's i mean good back to back right jersey and florida i'm giving you late year panhandle this right here these two shows together

are a grease fire that That's what it is. That's exactly what it is. Out of the greasy frying pan, into the greasy fire, which will flame up more because of all that grease from New Jersey. Good grief. So we're going to Alturas, Florida,

which you've never heard of, and neither have I. Nobody ever has. Alt-A-L? A-L-T-U-R-A-S. Oh. Alturas. It's an unincorporated community in a census-designated place.

Great. Which means nobody wants it. Doesn't exist. It just sits out there on its own. It's weird. Even the population, they count the next town over as their population. Really? There's really less people here.

This is some weird backwater shit, Jimmy. We'll get into it. It's in the middle. Oh, it's in the middle. Oh, yeah. It's right smack in the middle. We'll get to it it's in the middle oh it's in the middle yeah oh yeah it's right smack in the middle we'll get to it for orange groves strange things it's in the center of the bottom panhandle i know that they consider tallahassee that's the panhandle florida has two panhandles crammed together that's all it is it's a double panhandle this is the bottom panhandle

it's like near the dick hole right smack in the middle of the state there. Just pow. Right like a target. And this is where you'd want to hit anything to make it go away. This is the target you want to aim at here. So it's north of the dick hole. It's north of Miami. Yeah, we'll get there. Not Miami, that fucking lake, the dick hole. Oh, yeah, yeah.

It's a little north of that. Yeah, yeah. It's an hour and five minutes to Orlando. Orlando is south of here. It's about an hour to Tampa. By the way, we'll be in both of those places in 2020. Again. Coming up again.

Yeah. So we'll get to that. Two hours and 15 minutes to McIntosh, Florida. Yeah. Which is our last Florida episode. Really? Episode 99, December 28th, 2018. Almost a year ago.

Just about a year. Yeah. It's been since we've been to Florida, which we should go more to Florida for these episodes because it's always an adventure. That's the state the state it's always an adventure it really is that's uh and they have a lot of murders down there too fuck yeah oh just so many and they don't really and otherwise oh and everything it's just it's amazing it gangs and hillbillies and all sorts of people uh it's in polk county down there uh zip code 33820 area code 863 this area is 60 square miles it's a huge shitty swampy citrus grovey disaster it's just it's no man's land florida 60 miles square florida that nobody

wants nobody wants but well it's that's what orlando was before disney came right when disney bought that land they were like someone's buying this shit that's hilarious you know disney had to buy it under different shell companies so people wouldn't know it was him buying it really because then they would jack the price up they knew he wanted that land they'd be like well yeah now it costs more you know that guy's got it we know he's got money we know he wants to build a park here but instead they were just selling off these swats to these companies that all were him all togetherought it all together. And he bought most of central Florida, basically. Except for here. He's like, well, stop it there.

We don't want any of that stuff. The motto here is, we're not even a town, so why would we have a motto? They're barely even held together. They have a post office, and that's it. So the county history, we'll get into Polk a little bit. The 1900s, Bartow is the other town that's nearby. That's like a real town that's close by that they kind of count their population in with this town, in with Alturas, Florida. So in the early 1900s, they found the phosphate industry, bought a lot of the land around Barto there, and that became the county seat.

And it was the hub of the largest phosphate industry in the United States. Really? So, yeah. Phosphates are bad, right? I mean, I don't know. I'm sure there's positive uses. Sure, they're not just pulling them out of the ground to poison people. Right.

I'm sure there's a, you know. I don't know. Monsanto's got anything to do with it. Well, yeah. Well putting into the ground yeah they're putting it in and then we're just pulling only the phosphate out let's get that phosphate out as we'll talk about chemicals can be uh later on in this episode chemicals can be good and bad oh as a thing so uh yeah this a lot of people a lot of immigrants came here at first because of this industry anytime there's a shitty industry that's dangerous and dirty people who need right the most desperate people will take those jobs so that was it right the early 1900s this was the italian

immigrants and the jewish immigrants and all the people that were coming at that point you know polish at that point i think there was still a little bit trickling in from eastern europe and places like that too but that they would take those jobs and uh black people too from the rural areas that were you know didn't want to share crop anymore they'd go marginalized minorities yeah you could actually get a job and have your own place and not be you know under somebody's thumb anymore so you could do it and that was uh and you didn't have to go to chicago or you know pittsburgh or someplace like that booming metropolis yeah you can stay in the south and you know still sweat constantly well yeah who wants it doesn't matter what time of year it is my taint isn't quite sweaty enough all the time i'd like to stay in florida where it'll keep a

year-round sheen on it really just a nice you notice notice men's underwear disintegrates at that general area. And it's because we... In Florida, an underwear lasts like three washings. Oh, God, Jesus. Three washings. You've got to throw it out. It liquefies. It's done in the middle.

The crotch just liquefies. It's crazy. There's burn marks around it. We're like, how did that happen? You sweat acid. I literally burned a hole in my tank. This is weird stuff here uh a lot of a lot a lot a lot of racial issues happened in this area especially in the bartow area in pulp county

it's is that why i've heard of bartow maybe they're famous for bad racial times there i mean that they're they are they were hanging on to the 1800s, kicking and screaming all the way to the 1980s. I mean, they were liking it down there. There's a gentleman named Henry Scott who was a black guy who was a porter on a train. While he was preparing some of the baggage or whatever, it was May 20th, 1920. He was preparing the passage for one of the passengers a woman and another woman who was a white woman a wealthy white woman was upset that he made her wait oh jeez so she sent a telegram to the next station and that the next station he was arrested by the

sheriff for stealing her time for making her taking too long which i don't know i don't even know what the the i don't even know what like a what's the crash trumped up charge would be you know what i mean what's the what do you even say the charges it's not even like he was she didn't even say like and he whistled at me or anything it's like something just inconvenient whatever perceived slight at the time that would get people killed you know whatever to kill a mockingbird shit was happening at the time this is a different thing completely i don't even know what this thing is but the sheriff arrested him and uh rather than you know saying this is ridiculous and making a show of the arrest for the lady and oh yeah i'll take him away and

then being like yeah she's fucking crazy and then let him go which would be the smart thing to do because he he can't say hey fuck you lady because then he's gonna get she's fucking crazy, and then letting him go, which would be the smart thing to do. Because he can't say, hey, fuck you, lady, because then he's going to get, she's a wealthy woman, he's going to end up getting fired or something. So I get that he's in a tough spot. But maybe you go, oh, yeah, she's a terrible man. And then you go over and you go, oh, crazy bitch, right? Yeah, I know. Take the cuffs off and be like, go on your way.

Get out of here. Here's five bucks. Get yourself lunch on me. There you go. You know what I'm saying? Sorry about that. Jesus. Here's five bucks for your income. Yeah. She's not your time this is crazy yeah i mean jesus well you know

you're gonna file charges against her for making you wait so instead he this sheriff turned this young man over to an angry mob that shot him 40 times get out of here yeah no shot him 40 to 50 times and uh killed him obviously unreal for making a woman wait what year was that 1920 19 not 1820 which is still crazy yeah not 1620 no if i heard this was 20 ad i'd be like yeah that sounds biblical that sounds like some weird old test even before that yeah you'd think they'd have it together by then 1920 bc like some old testament shit you could see. I don't know. But this is fucking bonkers. Yeah, a lot of citrus groves there. Polk County, for a lot of the 1900s, was the leading citrus county in the United States.

This is where all your oranges come from. You hear all the Florida orange commercials. This is what they're talking about here. How old was Scott? Do we know? Do we know how old that poor man was? I think he uh in his early 20s un-fucking-believable young man young man who had no doing anything wrong i mean she didn't even say he didn't even tell her to go fuck herself no nothing no there was literally didn't like the fact that she had to wait

that is helping somebody else it's bonkers man 1941 they built an airport around here uh in the northeastern part of the county and uh that airport was taken over by the federal government during world war ii and became the spot to train for a lot of the army air corps pilots during world war ii because it was a that's great it's like in the pacific florida's kind of a similar uh deal swampy shitty you know i mean you can get you can get air training over the ocean, over water. Yeah, over land. That's right. You can do that.

And that was renamed Bartow Municipal Airport in 1967 when the government gave it back. They kept it till 67. Jesus. In the 1900s, the Klan, the Ku Klux Klan, was revived and very active in Polk County. They were... Oh, fuck. I mean, they came back with a vengeance. What year?

This is the 1900s. This is, we're talking. Yeah, oh, into the, we'll talk about it. I mean, it starts 1900s with this, the poor man, Henry Scott, that they murdered. But that wasn't even the Klan. That was just an angry mob. That's just a dude.

That wasn't even organized. That wasn't like the Klan came and got him. That was just the people hanging around. So, I mean, imagine what the Klan it that was just the people hanging around so i mean if the imagine what the clan's like if just the regular people are like get him your average civilian is a lunatic 40 times how dare he make her wait like what the fuck is the clan would have been like only y'all only had 40 bullies christ bunch of slackers unprepared sons of bitches so you never know when a when a gentleman when a feller's gonna make

somebody wait so uh they were really active the klansmen were photographed in hoods and robes in 1958 in a church around here and in the 1960s uh they were obviously also violent uh when the civil rights movement was going on and uh 1967 a uh in 1967 a white guy shot a and wounded didn't kill but shot and wounded a very popular black high school football player who was going to an integrated school yeah and they didn't like he didn't like that that he was so popular nothing that's the thing yeah it's fucking crazy bananas in 1967 a black man can be get can get shot for going to a non-segregated school it's a school that's not segregated anymore no it was integrated school that's what they're mad about he's allowed to go there he gets shot absolutely

and then tomorrow comes and everything's fine he's literally like oh cool an opportunity to go to a better school and play sports and maybe become a no you're gonna shoot him they shoot him yeah he's wounded he's winged and then he could have been oj minus the murder and instead they killed him because i was you know well he was just wounded right wounded yeah they tried to kill him so between the end of the civil war you know between reconstruction and uh right after world war ii more than 20 black men were hanged burned or shot uh in this area usually within you know with right after being accused of a crime and never with a trial of course this is just usually just they would kill them well we know he did it james it's fucking insanity man trial for what it's uh

yeah it wow um the uh the clan group uh marched in lakeland florida nearby in in full full road in the full rigs as they said in uh reno 911 when they showed up at the at the at the county fair and the guy was in his full clan out for it he goes in your full rig really let's open your full rig man come on come on man seriously uh so yeah they uh junior that said that no that, that was Dangle. Was it? Dangle, show up in your full rig. Come on, man. I see Junior saying it, but not Dangle. It was funny. That's hilarious. The Klan guy had a black girlfriend that he was there to propose to.

That was the whole point of it. He had to dress nice for it. It's pretty crazy. He's like his Navy whites. The whole thing was that she didn't realize that he was in the Klan. That was the joke of it all. This is way off the subject. She said, I met him in the

club he came in he said he was gonna set the place on fire and i was like yeah and she was like i don't think i don't think dangles like i don't think he meant that in the way you thought he did i think it was it's pretty it's pretty funny yeah that's reno 911 which is brilliant obviously but yeah you can't march in your full rig that's crazy yeah that's just fucking that's crazy what are we talking about maybe it's me i don't know in the south that's might be normal but like i grew up in new york like to hear of a people marching in their full rigs and not being like fucking pelted with bricks and i can't believe they still exist that's what i mean based on the fact that it's a fucking punch line well where i grew up if you if you guys walk down the street and they're full they would be lynched in the street in two seconds they'd be a bunch of puerto ricans and black guys would come and stab them and that

would be the end of it hey fuck you motherfucker that would be the end of the fucking march done and over with i mean but rightfully i'm not saying because black people puerto rican stab people because these motherfuckers should be stabbed it's fucking i shouldn't say that no no they shouldn't be stabbed you shouldn't stab anyone at all regardless regardless but you know certainly shout them down and make them stop marching though jesus christ stop showing how much you hate people yeah so that it's it's it's crazy so uh but from 1990 to the year 2000 the unincorporated areas around here, like our place here, like Alturas, grew 25% while the towns grew less. So the sticks, because it's so cheap out there, too. You can buy land and you can live places here.

So it's just like sprawl into the fields and into the citrus groves and shit. It's very, very weird here. But it's been, the unemployment rate of Polk County is always higher. Like in August of 2010, the state had an 11% unemployment rate. And here it was 13.5%. Florida had 11% unemployment? In 2010, yeah. After the huge crash and all that shit.

That was bad stuff happening. And they had 13. They had 13.5%. So that's high. Very high. Also, this is like a lot of hurricanes around here also. This is a lot of storms, they call it. This is like Lightning Alley, they call it.

This is, you go through here. It blasts through the coast and they all end up there. Yeah, a lot of storms coming through here this is like in orlando they say it rains once a day it's gonna rain at some point today that's what they always say i just don't know when and for how long that's how it works there and it's true we were there fucking rains every day so uh they built lego land there which is a the site of the forest former cypress gardens uh they do have They did preserve a botanical garden section from the old Cypress Gardens, though.

You took Joey there? No. To Legoland? No, I haven't. I mean, not even California? I haven't been to that one. No, I haven't been to that one. You'll go to fucking Florida?

No, no. I will be in Florida next year, at least twice. Everybody I know says that that shit is bananas. It's not good in a bananas. It's terrible. Legolandgo land yeah i've heard nothing but terrible things about it that it's overpriced and that it's fucking it's just it's just legos all day well how expensive are legos i mean what are you gonna a lego set just for it's like 120 so i mean you buy that you're like okay we're not buying much more that's about it today

right like fuck that place how much fucking more are we buying i don't want to be reminded of what i stepped on in the dark too like that yeah that's a ptsd triggering park the entire fucking place is pain inducing in the middle of the night when i have to piss and i've got to step on those shits that are lining my hallway that oh god i hate those things so much everybody does they're a lot of fun when you got them contained in your plane but yeah with your kid my son's obsessed with them oh yeah i can't believe they've gotten autistic kids like legos can you imagine make inventing a toy that you can build a fucking land around that's amazing good for good for mr lego i want i want to get my

son into like some sort of professional like dude he takes the box he he puts them together like a it's like he's in fast forward it's insanity you can just look at the instruct does he even look at him he's looking at the instructions but he's grabbing legos and placing them like as he's re it's what the shit fucking crazy i've never seen it's nuts dude it's wild yeah i'm sitting there going but where how how does that do that and then he asked me to help him i'm like i'll sit here with you but he gets mad at me i'm looking for something he's like dad you're you're holding me up here take put it here there we go step two move your ass i'm like jesus sorry fuck dude so i've got it like sprawled out with like my glasses and i'm holding it real close to my face i'm like is that is that is that the light blue one or the clear blue one i don't under fucking sand i never get it so reviews of this town i found some reviews yeah uh they're weird

they're they're weird uh here's a one-star review quote we have no restaurants where i live i live in a small town alturas but there is not alturas mailing addresses so i have a bartow address one star so okay there's not a lot of restaurants and you don't have a Bartow address. One star. Okay. There's not a lot of restaurants and you don't have a mailing address, so one star, I guess. That sounds like a you problem, sir. That sounds like your fault. It sounds like a telegram for help

is what it sounds like. We have no restaurants where I live. Stop. I don't have an address. Stop. I live in a small town. Alturas. Stop.

But there is not an Alturas mailing address. Stop. S.O.S. Fucking weird. Here's another one. Only way to have. This is three separate reviews from the same person on the same day. Why do it three times?

I don't know. All one star. The only driving the average. Only only way to have transportation is if you have a car. This all sounds like some weird Confucius shit, the way they say it. I don't know. No one here knows how to write a complete sentence or grammar's not. He starts that sentence with the word only.

Only way to have transportation is if you have a car. That's not right. Next one. Okay. Next. This is the next total review. Quote, none, but you can drive 15 minutes to town and get a job. Was that the question and answer?

Did he answer a question? I think it might be a haiku. Let's see. Let's find out. I think we're talking about a haiku here. What the fuck is happening? Quote, no gym or anything to exercise with. You just have to be motivated and do it yourself.

All one star review. What does that have to do with anything? He makes it sound like prison what's happening there these are people that live there they got on a computer and this is what they typed man think about that one starting with only is my favorite no maybe none maybe the one starting with none it sounds like is he writing a haiku is that what he's doing now because this this all riddles? Does it make sense? People in this town, and like I said... Is he hiding, like, clues to a treasure?

Yeah, there's something. I feel like if it wasn't written on a computer, it would have been made with glued-on magazine letters that they cut out, like a fucking ransom note. It's like a Da Vinci code. Yeah, population, like I said, this kind of lumps in the nearby Bartow population, too, but it's 4,090, up 45% since 1990.

And where we'll be, it's nowhere near that. It's really rural. 4,000 people live here. In that 60-mile thing. Well, that's the next town. Less people live in this area here. It's male and females about on average. A few years older.

Normal median age is about 37 in the rest of the country here. It's about 42 and a half. So it's a little bit older a few more married people not a lot of single people with no children four percent so not a big party town if you're going to look to get down with some single restaurants james there's not even a restaurant gym where are you going to pick anybody up what are you doing even if there was one you couldn't get uh uh you did get a dui because you have to have a car. That's the thing. You have to have a car. You can drive 15 minutes to go to town to get a job. Race of this town, 89% white. Pretty white.

0.7% black. That's interesting. In Florida. That sounds on purpose. Maybe it's because the Klan marches through every once in a while. You know what? I don't think so. That ought to run everybody out, though.

Yeah, maybe Tampa's nicer. I mean, they got roosters running around everywhere, but it's still better than the Klan. Fuck. 0.0% Asian. None. None. How does that happen ever? Okay.

It's normally 5%, so that's way low. 8.9% Hispanic, too. Not even a lot of Hispanics. Again, this shit sounds on purpose. 41% of the people here are religious. The majority of those people are Baptists. As we know, Baptists are the Catholics of the South, my friend. 0.1% Jewish.

In Florida, there's no black people or Jewish people. That shit's on purpose. There's a problem. There's a problem. You have a reputation. Yeah, there's an issue here. In the last elections here in the county uh 41 percent democrat 55 percent republican about four percent independent unemployment rate is a little bit high but

it's over four percent but that's still super low even though it's high for the rest of the country right now median household income 57 000 is the normal in the rest of the country here it's about 43 000 uh more construction jobs kind of than anything else. And if it's, you know, it's there's not a lot of white collar jobs. Lots of labor stuff. It's a lot of labor and working in that sort of thing. Yeah. Outside. A lot of outdoor activities here.

Cost of living. 100 is regular average. Here it is 85. So it's a little bit low. And the main low thing is housing, which is a 53. It should be lower. I would say. Yeah.

Because your house is going to sink anyway. If it doesn't sink, it's going to blow away. Eventually, something's going to happen or be eaten by a gator. Median home cost here, $122,200. So very low median home cost. There's homes. I mean, we're talking almost 25% of the homes are worth under $40,000. Really?

Yeah. And there's also million-dollar homes here, too. There's also an average amount of million to $2 million homes. So people have come out here because there's land and they've built big houses. And then there's people with shacks that have had that shack there forever. There's people that want to get away from everybody. Yeah. And they have a bunch of money.

And there's other people that have to get away from everybody, and they have a bunch of money, and there's other people that have to get away from everybody because of federal warrants or something. There's no warrants. There's nowhere else to go. Jesus. The only place they can get hired is the citrus field. I don't know. If we've convinced you somehow that you need to be here,

I don't know if you've got your Klan robe out of dry cleaning and you're ready to go, we have for you the Alturas florida real estate report your average two-bedroom rental here is about 952 bucks which is uh high compared to the it's lower than the average but high compared to what it should be for cost of living. Found a two-bedroom, two-bath, 936 square feet, a stately manor. Unfortunately, that state is Florida, so it's a trailer. It's $24,000, and it's a shithole, by the way. I'm sure of it.

Yeah. It does have the corrugated steel on the bottom to make it look like a house. Found a three-bedroom, two-bath. I do love that touch. Yeah, it's a nice touch. Hide the wheels. Hide them. This is 1,110 square feet.

This is an actual house. Okay. $143,000. It's actually attached to the ground and everything. Then I found a three-bedroom, two-and-a-half bath, 2,000 square feet. It's a nice house. It's updated. It's on two-and-a-half acres.

So you have a little bit of room. $225,000 for that. Two-and-a-half acres? Yeah. Very reasonable to live there. house it's updated it's on two and a half acres so you have a little bit of room 225 000 bucks for that so two and a half acres yeah very reasonable to live there i mean obviously you'd have to you can't buy two and a half acres anywhere in the state for that money no fuck no i mean in arizona you could go to the middle of the desert somewhere yeah but i mean with a house that's nice on it you're not getting you wouldn't be like you know there wouldn't be electricity there or anything that's the problem uh Things to do here. They have the Bloomin' Art Festival.

I guess it was the changer from the Bloomin' Onion Festival. Outback got mad, probably. When they found out the Klan was here, they were like, we can't sponsor that. They have everything from antique cars to paintings and restored violins. Okay, that's an odd, specific thing to have. Is it like orange blooms? Is that kind of the thing? I guess.

The Bloomin' Art Festival here. The children's tent will be open throughout the entire festival. Watch out for that. Craving. I don't know what they're doing in there. Arts and crafts, face painting, et cetera. I don't know what that et cetera is. Go on down there and get your children.

That's right. And also they have the Just Say No Parade. They're still doing really just say no parade um okay just say no if you don't know if you're a foreign listener or you're just a younger listener uh there was a big campaign in the 80s where they said we got to stop drug use among teens i got it just say no right and that was the whole thing and that was going to solve the drug problem did it start in 86 85 86 yeah it was the len bias thing right yeah nancy reagan took it yeah what a waste of len bias say no and then after a while after about five years when you know drug use didn't move at all because that's a

stupid thing that thwart drug use with just say no uh everybody laughed at it went that's ridiculous florida said let's keep doing the parade forever. Meanwhile, it was hilarious for people to wear the Dared shirt and smoke weed. It's fucking hysterical. That's the thing, yeah. You saw a lot of that in the 90s. Yeah, tons of it. 28th.

I don't think it's working, guys. Yeah. So crime rate in this town, what we're here for. Property crime right around normal, maybe a're here for uh property crime right around normal maybe a touch high but you know whatever not right around normal and mount rushmore of crime violent crime murder rape robbery and assault just about normal again so they're right around in the ballpark of normal in the in the range of their uh you know margin of error i would say so let's talk about a murder it's a weird one yeah this This is some strange, weird, you're going to mix.

Wow. I can't even set it up. I just have to tell it because it's fun. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later,

what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media

would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye.

The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Bucked up, man. Let's talk about a couple of people first. Let's talk about some people who lived kind of out in the middle of nowhere in Altaurus. And first, we'll start with Peggy Carr and her husband. His name is Per Erlen Carr. Go ahead and spell that.

P-A-R-E-A-R-L-Y-N. That's his first name. That's his first name. Per Erlen? Per Erlen, I guess. Per Erlen. He goes by Pi. Huh? A-R-L-Y-N. That's his first name. That's his first name. Pearlin? Pearlin, I guess. Pearlin. He goes by Pie.

Huh? P-Y-E. Pie. Which also, no. It doesn't, whatever. He doesn't know how to spell Pie. Yeah, that's how he spells it. Neither Pie, by the way.

Funny thing is, when I hear Pie and I think of a hillbilly that lives in the middle of nowhere in a trailer, I think of High of high from raising arizona that's what i think of nicholas cage with his hair fucked up looking all he always looks like he just woke up what happened now yeah son you got a patty on your head that's what i picture this guy but so that's in my mind i'm picturing those two right now uh so yeah they uh pair old peril in uh we'll call them pie we may as well peggy and pie car yeah pie and peggy car sounds like a 50s this is 1988 we're gonna start with okay i mean seriously with pie With Peggy and Pi. With Peggy and Pi car. Pi and Peggy car. Yeah. Ridiculous.

They got married in 1988. And Peggy moves into Pi's home, which is out here in Alturas. And it's basically, it's an orange grove out there. And it's a bunch of orange groves, and there are two homes right there, and then the nearest neighbors are a little over a quarter mile away. My God. So it is remote. It's your kind of place.

I love it. Minus the next door neighbor. And all the Florida that's around here. Yeah. This would be great if it wasn't for all this Florida. A lot of Florida around here, right? I see. A little too much for me.

Hold on. Let me get the binoculars. I said, what is that over? Oh, it's more Florida. Oh, fuck. Never mind. Yeah. Too much Florida.

A lot of Florida. And to be stuck with, you better like those neighbors. Oh, boy. Or they better be shut-ins or like elderly or something. Better not argue with you because the closest person to their savior is a quarter mile away. That's the problem. It's ridiculous. So, yeah, Peggy moves in.

Now, Pi, if you want to call him Pear, Pi's son, Travis, and Peggy's son, Jesus Christ, Travis is Pi's son, and Dwayne Dubberly is Peggy's son. Jesus Christ. Travis is Pi's son and Dwayne Dubberly is Peggy's son. Yeah. So Travis, Dwayne, Pi, Peggy, car. Only three of them are car. Of course there's a Dwayne involved. A Dwayne and a Travis too.

So Reno 911, his name is Travis Jr. Right. That's the one guy. This is all fitting in very well. This is good. Pi, Travis, Dwayne, Peggy, guy. This is all fitting in very well. This is good. Pi, Travis, Dwayne, Peggy, they all live out here at this place here. In 1988 here, after they get married, Pi renovates the garage into an apartment and then moves his daughters in as well. Oh, no.

His daughters, Delina Shiver, Tammy Reed, and then his also his granddaughter one of his daughter's daughters casey so we're talking about this is a loaded up house boy i mean it's out in the fields and it's it's loaded up so we have the two adults and then we have travis and duane so that's four and then we have two daughters that's six and a granddaughter seven people living it's not a huge house no i mean seven people's not a huge amount for life you know there's no but i mean he had that not a lot of people under the same roof that's a shitload of people like a big house if you had like if you're like the kardashians a bunch of them live together but i mean it's like a 7 000 square foot house who the fuck has one of those even four or five thousand square feet seven people that's a lot of people and i wouldn't know

but yeah either way that's a lot of fucking people. But here, yeah, he had to make an apartment out of the garage. So it's not set up for seven people. We'll put it that way. The house isn't made for seven people. It's not like, oh, plenty of room. Convert the guest rooms. That wasn't it. Your sewing room is going to be the guest.

I'll convert my study. It's fine. I'll take the books off the shelves. Then throw a futon in there. Everything will be fine. It's going to be great. I I'll convert my study. It's fine. I'll take the books off the shelves. And throw a futon in there. Everything will be fine. It's going to be great. I'll take my bison head off the wall. Take my smoking chair out of there.

It'll be fun. We'll let a couple of the kids use our bathroom in the morning, and we'll all get ready. It's going to be great. Yeah, no. There's a line in the bathroom here. Oh, the bathroom. You have to wait for grown people to shit before you can go in there. Brush your teeth. You smell several different grown people shit shit before you can go in there brush your teeth

you smell several different grown people shit if you're like fifth to the bathroom while you clean your molar while you clean your molars and their shit particles are on your toothbrush because it's floating through the air that's disgusting disgusting but it happened these poor people so uh anyway yeah they're all there it just sounds like a lot going on but they sound like they're all everyone says they're nice people yeah they're not dicks they're all there. It just sounds like a lot going on. But they sound like they're all, everyone says they're nice people. They're not dicks. They're not, you know, they don't bother people. They're making it work.

They're making it work. I mean, you know, there's a, obviously, it's a. It's not easy. It's not easy. There's a lot going on. There's some challenges. There's a lot going on. Well, there's also the next door neighbor who is the only other people who live out there.

So if those are your next door neighbors, you might be a little bit like oh jesus christ all these kids and you know and the duane and uh duane and travis are like teenagers too so they're playing music boys will be boys yeah they're fucking i mean yeah they're teenage boys they're gonna be a little loud and shit like that and their next door neighbors are uh two people here married couple uh george j. George James Trepal is one of them, or Treple. I'm not sure how you say it, but either way, that's one guy, George Trepal. And his wife lives there also. And his wife's a doctor, Dr. Diana Carr, no relation to the Pi car. So, yeah, that's what I mean.

We'll not use the cars because it's going to be confusing. We've got Dr. Diana, we've got Georgeorge yeah and then we got pie and peggy so you can't they're p and p over there so they live next door there to the property adjoining him and uh joining the the pie and peggy and this is 88 this is 1988 yeah so the first time when like playing music super loud was a thing you know when they like kids weren't teens, we were encouraged. 70s, yeah. In the 70s, you started to get there. People started to be into their sound system.

I'm getting subwoofers. But in the 80s, that was fucking exploded. You could buy, for like 200 bucks, you could buy a stereo that had those big giant speakers in the 80s. Sir Wendig and Towers. They weren't even that expensive. No. They were got down to nothing. 88 bucks. You got a pair of them fucking giant speaker fuck and then if you're a teenager years later you take it out of your house i had a friend of mine that had put it in

his car i had a blazer no he had a blazer a chevy blazer four ohm system that's entirely different he put a fucking house speaker in the back of his blazer because he realized it was his parents house home like living room stereo system that they bought in 1981 or something yeah and this was like 1996 and he figured out there's a 15 in it well he figured out that it was real bassy one time when they had it on and it was it was like classical music he said but there was bass and he was like this shit's bassy so he took it from the house and put it in his car and that was his speaker bed was a house speaker and it was louder people be like what do you got back there he's like house speaker they're like what he's got a speaker from my living room he's in the 90s people had these crazy systems and they'd be like oh i got two i got two

pile tubes with a fucking with a 15 on it got a rockford all this stuff you're fucking shit talking about your amps he's like house speaker got it from my living room mom's gonna be pissed when she comes home. Pretty cool, right? It's fucking awesome. I don't think they noticed it. That's the fucked up part. Why is there only one tower in the living room anymore? I wonder what happened to the other.

I don't even think they noticed it. It's one of those houses. It's in the trunk of my fucking Corolla, mom. No, you had a blazer in the back of it. It was an SUV. Like a 91 blazer. Do you still have the pictures of grandma on on it he laid it down on the side i mean grandma would have fallen down at that point he had to take the pictures of grandma on in the doily of course but you know eventually it just went in

the house back house speaker bumping fucking wu-tang oh god that's funny wu-tang clan ain't nothing to fuck with indeed. As told by my house speaker. That's fucking incredible. Jesus Christ. How long did that take for that thing to just fucking disintegrate under the power of a car stereo? He did something else to it, too. It was too much power, I'm sure, going through it. You've got to be running an amp.

Shit was pumping out of it. I was like, what is happening? It worked the whole time i was friends with him i don't know about what happened afterwards but it's like a light on fire in the back seat at least a year and a half he had that house speaker just unreal bumping out the back of that thing it was hilarious but i mean that's that's what it is man you do what you can. Bridging it down to two ohms and just blasting it out of the speaker coil. What are you going to do? I mean, he's like, I'm not buying a system. That's hilarious, though.

You can shoot a voice coil through the fucking back windshield. Oh, yeah. It's great. He doesn't care. He was just. He didn't give a shit. Whatever, man. It's loud.

He just threw it back there, turned it on. It was like, it's bassy. Cool. He got in the car house speaker did you get a system no house speaker okay so i know my mom wasn't using it so then other people started being like can i put my house speaker right there mom i'm taking the sonys they're going in the car that could work uh so anyway, George and Dr. Diana here have lived into, they moved into their home in the early 1980s here. And Pi has lived here for a few years, and now he's brought in his new wife and her kids and his kids, and the whole brood is there. So things have changed.

Now, in June of 1988, Pi, he gets an anonymous letter, which is an odd thing, I guess. And it's pretty aggressive, I would say. It's postmarked near Bartow, Florida, which is the next town. I mean, that could be next door, though. That's what I mean. Who's got an address? There you go. See?

Well, at least not that one guy in the review. an address there you go see well maybe not at least not that one guy right in the review uh now the letter says quote you and all your so-called family have two weeks to move out of florida forever or else you will all die this is no joke oh boy that's the letter for that he gets he has no idea who it is and he thinks it's just a prank he thinks it's like maybe one of his son's friends he's got teenage kids so he's like maybe one of his son's friends. He's got teenage kids. So he's like, I want to these asshole teenagers saying this shit and move out of the entire out of Florida. It says move out of Florida forever. So it sounds silly.

It sounds like a real. You got to get out of Florida forever, man. It's a real like, you know, get out of town. It's the direction in the first place is it's ridiculous. You have two weeks to move out of Florida forever. Doesn't sound like someone who's like Mark and date me. to move out of florida forever doesn't sound like someone who's like mark and date me that's fucking 12 days he doesn't know he's got two more days doesn't sound like it's that it's probably you know so he just disregards it as that's some

fucking white trash prank who cares yeah basically you know whatever even though it says this is no joke right uh yeah i mean i'm not sure. Specifically does say that. It does say. This is no... Just in case you think... I know what I said. He looked at it. Whoever wrote it was like, hmm, move out of Florida forever or else.

That sounds shit. That sounds... That sounds silly as fuck. It's going to... You know what? I better write that it's not... This is... There we go.

Okay. Not a joke. Not a joke. See, now they'll know, right? Is this better? It's better. Okay. P.S.

No sarcasm. Showing it to people. Yeah. P.S. Not sarcastic. P.s no sarcasm showing it to people yeah p.s not sarcastic p.p.s seriously dude exclamation fuck out yeah gotta go the whole state so now uh uh the the the home is in alturas that they live in obviously but the letter correctly lists the mailing address as being bartow, because even if you live in Alturas, you put your address in Alturas and then you put Bartow as your city because it's Florida. Who the fuck knows? You're not getting mail. You put your address, but not the town you live in because I don't know.

But the mailing specifically knows that. But yeah, whoever mailed this, whoever mailed this to him knows that much about it. So it's, you know, that's... Make sure he gets it. Yeah, they obviously knew. If it was like someone sending it as a joke from Oregon, they wouldn't probably know that. They'd go, he lives in Alturas. They'd write Alturas and his address.

But they knew that that... Because his address... Your address is Alturas, but your mailing address is Bartow. That's how it works. So yeah, if you're getting a pizza delivered, you'd say this, blah, blah, address is Alturas, but your mailing address is Bartow. That's how it works. So, yeah, if you're getting a pizza delivered, you'd say this, blah, blah, blah, Alturas. Not that they'll deliver it. We're the fuck out here. There's no restaurant.

There's no restaurant. I forgot. Never mind. Sorry. Jesus Christ. This place, man. So, yeah, now, Pai and Trapal, both of them, both have Bartow mailing addresses because they get their mail on the, it's the Bartow post office is where they get it out of.

So, yeah, there's that. Now, October, a couple months go by because they get that they get that letter in July. The two week window goes by, you know, come and go, come and go. Nothing happens. I don't know. I guess I guess a joke. I guess it's a joke. Yeah.

I mean, what are you going to do? I don't know. I guess. It is a joke. I guess it's a joke. Yeah. I mean, what are you going to do? Although at one point here in about September, both of their dogs get sick and die.

Both of Peggy and Pi's dogs get sick and die. So they thought that was odd. But also, I mean, dogs get sick and die. That happens. And they run around outside. They don't know if maybe they ate something from the groves. florida who knows what fucking bit them who knows that's the other thing too they don't know if they got bit they really didn't know what happened they just got sick and they died rather quickly and that was it they were dead dogs so there was that so that was

very sad and then finally weird thing uh october 1988 peggy just gets a stomach bug yeah it's like the flu and can't kick it. Okay. Just one of those things she can't kick, the stomach flu. Which she's just got it. And I've had this shit where you have like a stomach problem for a while. Yeah. Where you're just like you feel like you have the flu.

It's constantly shitting. Well, it lingers for like three weeks. You don't eat right. You don't feel right. And it's one of those things. So she's got something like that. But it progresses. It doesn't get better. just constantly hurts and she's just basically uh you know she kind of starts getting laid up in the house and uh they because she's got a stomach

bug they also basically there's if you have a flu there's not a lot of ways to treat that if it's a stomach bug you know what i mean there's not much you can do for that you can take a little pepto or drink lots of fluids drink lots of fluids also uh i know for me uh soda helps if you're throwing up the syrup there's a coating mechanism and the the bubbles help and everything like that so they just keep giving her they have coca-cola they keep giving her coca-cola that's what she wants so they give her coca-cola they there's uh uh eight packs of 16 ounce bottles they keep of coca-cola in their carport there and so they keep giving her that really maybe that's good so uh but she knows it keeps progressing though the coke doesn't cure it jimmy no it's weird the doc hollywood solution i don't know what's going on yeah they cried that's where they

saw doc hollywood cracked it up and went huh huh? No? Drink the Coke, bitch. Come on, but this is 1988. We're talking pre-Doc Hollywood. We are, yeah. This is Michael J. Fox is still on a sitcom. He's still wearing a red, fluffy fucking vest. Yeah, he is. Yeah, at that point, he's still making those. So October 23rd is when she, it really, it gets worse and worse.

She has nausea, pain in her chest chest pain in her extremities even difficulty breathing like it seems like this must be just a world-class malaria kick-ass flu and it's florida so who knows what the kind of weird mosquito diseases you can get down there but something from somewhere who the hell knows but blows in on a hurricane some disease She blows in on a hurricane. Some disease mosquitoes blew in on a hurricane. So she's just feeling awful. And I mean, usually a flu doesn't progress like this. So she ends up going to the Bartow Memorial Hospital there and stays for three days. She stays for three days and they end up sending her home even though she you know she felt a little

bit better got you know fluids and shit in her and stuff like that and thought she was gonna sort of on the way to get better yeah so they send her home they want her the hell out of there well yeah i mean jesus who knows what her insurance is we don't know if you're contagious well yeah who knows you gotta quarantine you stay much longer no shit right yeah if we can't just we can't figure out your right your weird stomach illness here uh but that's the other thing too they don't know they don't know at this point so they send her home uh at home her symptoms get worse really and rather than better as soon as she goes home and kind of gets off the hospital care and the ivs and things like that she starts

to get worse which is very very strange here and uh also a couple of the kids in the home here travis and duane the boys start feeling sick as well oh no it's contagious and they start feeling similar yeah symptoms exact thing stomach nausea pain in the extremities trouble breathing hardcore flu symptoms yeah you know what i mean so they're like oh shit now other people have it right yeah so i mean we mean, is this the plague? Right. Board up the windows. Get out of there, bud. That's what I mean. Get a fucking priest over there.

Bless rights over it. Board it up. That's it. Stand outside with a shotgun and tell them, don't you leave. We'll be back in three months to see who's alive. Whoever's alive in three months can come out. And we'll treat you. And we'll burn everything that you're wearing and all your blankets and everything like that.

And the bodies left behind. You can come on out. So it's going to work. So on October 30th, 1988, Peggy, Travis, and Dwayne are all admitted to Winter Haven Hospital. Oh, no. So they all go to the hospital.

And this is under the urging of Carolyn Dixon, who is Pi's sister pie's sister it's her sister peggy's sister-in-law she's a nurse and she just says this is ridiculous you got out of you you went to the hospital a week ago you got out after three days and now you've been four days and you're getting worse you don't that doesn't and more people in the house are getting they're getting sick too we need to find out what this is. I mean, this could be the plague. We have no idea here. So if the bubonic plague were to start in America, it would be here.

Let's be realistic. It would be in the warm, you know. In the droppings of something. The warm, sweaty taint of Florida is where it would be. It would incubate in there. The warm incubating there was a flesh-eating bacteria that just started to resurge and it was in fucking florida of course it was of course it's it's warm on warming water temperatures yeah that's bad breeds

disease lots of disease there yeah warmer the water gets the grosser it is people strange so uh yeah it's been gross down there so she says something's something's not right here you need to you need to go to the hospital again and go to a better hospital and really figure this out so they get there they do they give her a battery of tests your regular tests that you'd give to make sure she's you know not diabetic not this not that all the different things and nothing there's nothing out of the ordinary right same thing that happened last time they it's it's crazy i mean there's it seems to be the most persistent flu in the world yeah uh but then while she's being examined and the doctors are really ready to throw their their hands up they don't know they can't imagine what the hell is going on here

and then while she's being examined kind of at the end of the whole thing where the doctor's like you know we tested her we're you know we're just gonna have to observe her a little bit more and they're saying that and then the doctor notices that she's got some like patches of thinner thinning hair oh no like weird things like her hair's been falling out and she said the doctor said is this like are you losing your hair and like is this a normal thing for you yeah or she said no i'm my own hair is falling out and then noticed it was falling out yeah so that's when the doctor a really weird uncomfortable place to be a doctor too yeah at this point yeah he's like just pointing out weird shit on the

body hey what's that what is hey your tits are weird is that normal or yeah jesus your feet are ugly oh boy what's happening there no they were like that before. Jesus Christ. Is that cottage cheese normal for you? On the back of your thighs there? Is that okay? You okay with that? Or is that normal? You just nitpicking the shit out of me. You just eat poorly?

Or is that just non-exercise? Or what do you do? Like, being a dick? She's like, fuck you. My mom's not that. It's genetics. Eat dicks. My grandmother, fuck off, dude.

Can't go up just to a bad fever? Good Lord. Or is that just shit diet doctor's just a total asshole pointing at her you got a real dumpy ass is that normal how did you paint your nails there you must be out of your mind that's fucking ridiculous i can't tell if uh maybe but you know i have heard that when when the fever spikes the teeth go crooked that That's weird, right? I just got to ask you one thing.

Is that natural or a bad nose job? Which one? Or is that, because there's something wrong with your nose. This might be fun for a doctor at this point. It could be fun, yeah. It's just like cathartic and relieving. And she's sitting there going, I don't know, maybe that is it. They're just looking for a, you'd love to do it with like some asshole dick dude sitting there like, gee, I don't know. Was your dick always that small?

Was it bigger to begin with? Because there's certain diseases that'll shrink it and that could be it. It's very bizarre the difference in size between the dick and the balls. Your balls are pretty big, but your dick is very tiny. It's odd. I'm just... I don't want to really get into this.

Is this... Have you always had a tiny dick sir because this is an important thing large clitoris always been there because that's really what it is it's all it is you don't have much more than that unreal get some real macho dude in there just destroying his i mean medically i'm talking this is medically i'm not talking like just in a anecdotal way I'm not trying to hurt you

you have a medically tiny penis is what I'm getting at where's your wife ma'am I'm going to call the New England Journal of Medicine because we should really document your penis sir it's absolutely on the off chance you die tonight we will be medically checking your body

I'll at least be photographing it. We may be donating it to bodies, the art exhibit. There's a book of oddities that's coming out that I really think would be interested in this sort of thing. The tininess of your dick. So, yeah, once her hair starts falling out, the doctor goes, okay, this is different now. This isn't just flu-like things. The hair falling out, I want to check for a full array of chemicals and poisons as well to make sure there's not something with the water

because they all get their water from a well out here too. So if a well gets poisoned, it could have... We've got a household of people that are all going down. What if the whole town starts to experience this? Well, it's just the two houses share the well. Got it. Two houses share. They each have the well.

I think they each have a well, and sometimes they have to tap off each other's wells, and it's all an arrangement they have there. So they're wondering if it's a well problem because sometimes wells can have elevated levels of certain minerals and metals and things like that. So it can happen. It can get out of whack, obviously. obviously so uh that's when she goes to the winter haven she's at winter haven and a neurologist there uh does a a battery of tests and discovers a chemical in her system uh not even really a chemical it's a it's thallium is what it's called t-h-a-l-l-i-u-m thallium it's a poison uh once used to kill rodents oh that poison but it's so nasty But it's so nasty that the FDA outlawed it. It's not even used for that anymore.

That's how nasty it is. They also tested the boys, and they also had thallium in their system. Enough thallium to keep them in the hospital for months. We're talking months. I mean, it was four months for the one boy, six months for the other boy recovering in the hospital. Okay. And Peggy continues to get sicker and sicker. Doctors also found traces of the poison in pie.

Also in Tammy, Peggy's daughter, Jelena, and the two-year-old Casey. Casey, oh, no. All had traces, but they called them insignificant traces. They weren't enough to make them sick, but more than they should have in their system. Where's the fucking source? More than natural. Basically here. It's at this point that, yeah, they do this.

They test everything. It's at this point that Peggy, after a few months, ends up slipping into a coma from this whole thing. Now, Thallium, just a little background on this thallium shit here. Commercially, it was produced. It says here it's produced not from potassium ores, but as a byproduct from refining heavy metal sulfide ores, is what it is now. Miners found it.

It's approximately 60% to 70% of thallium production is used in the electronics industry. That's what it is. It's approximately 60 to 70 percent of thallium production is used in the electronics industry that's what it is it's for industrial purposes and the remainder is used in the pharmaceutical industry and in glass manufacturing it's also used in infrared detectors so it's like it's like a metal type of thing even uh the the uh it's used what is this? Oh, yes. The radioisotope thallium is used in small non-toxic amounts as an agent in a nuclear medicine scan during one type of nuclear cardiac stress test. Like they use, you know, radiation for an x-ray. They use this as a little drop of this to, you know, so you can see. Got it.

Yeah, it's one of those things. It's the sodium thallium, soluble thallium salts are toxic and nearly tasteless as well. And they're historically used in rat poisons and insecticides. Insecticides. Yes. You sprinkle them over and then you fuck your mother. That's how it works. That was the best slip that's ever happened.

You snort it and then you you fuck your cousin well in florida you don't even need drugs to do that you just set aside you actually just kind of sprinkle it over the dinner plate of somebody who has fucked their cousin how and it fixes it and then yeah that's how it works everything's fine now and they forget about fucking their cousin jesus christ it'd be good for that's what we use to kill molesters. Yeah. Incesticide. There you go. So, yeah, it's, now, this compound's been restricted or banned in a lot of countries because it's very toxic.

Yeah. And the poisoning results in hair loss and shit like that. They said a lot of times that characteristic, that symptom doesn't surface sometimes. And it's very popular historically as a murder weapon yeah uh thallium because it's also tasteless it's hard to detect unless you're looking for it as well it is known as quote the poisoner's poison and quote inheritance powder they call that that's amazing yeah inheritance powder holy shit that's that's wild yeah yeah this sounds like much more powerful than the shit in the princess bride yeah well that's uh arsenic are they use arsenic they say that the it's in this and arsenic are the inheritance powders they they're

the thing but arsenic is like one of the things poisons they would look for first yeah whereas this thallium well also too because it breaks down really fast in your system that's the other thing yeah exactly this thallium though apparently unless they're unless that the hair loss symptoms comes out it just looks like you got sick and died looks like you got the flu and died oh literally if that doctor doesn't notice some hair loss they don't even test for this shit you have to do a specific test for it. Should we even be talking about this? That's what I mean. Well, it's out there a lot. Is it?

I've never heard of this shit. It's out there a lot. Agatha Christie had it in books. Really? It's a very popular thing. I almost saw her books. It's known as the inheritance powder. You've read none of her books.

I swear I have. No, I'm just kidding. My mom fucking loved that one. Really? Loved her. Did you read The Pale Horse? Probably. Okay, The Pale Horse is about Thallium.

Okay. How old is it? It's 1961 or something. Oh you read The Pale Horse? Probably. Okay, The Pale Horse is about Thallium. Okay. How old is it? It's 1961 or something. Oh, then I probably have. Yeah. Didn't she, I don't know. I was going to say, didn't she keep having new books come out? She wrote five million books.

When did she die? I don't know. She's probably still alive, huh? She's probably out there. Kicking around. Four foot one troll of a woman now. Only because she's 150, I think. So that's why she's...

Was 10 Little Indians hers? I think it was. I don't remember. I think it was. She's so long. I mean, that's all these murder mysteries. I've read a ton of her books because my mom had them sitting on the back of the toilet.

She pumped them out every day, those goddamn things. So it's... Yeah, they say ingesting as little as one gram of thallium can kill an adult. It was banned by the EPA, not the FDA, the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency in 1972, which is like right when they started it. So that's one of the first things they did was ban that shit. That's how bad it is.

First order of business, that shit. That shit out of here. They say it's extremely painful. It causes peripheral nerve damage that can feel like numbness, pins and needles, or fire in the extremities. It can also induce severe vomiting, cramps, and diarrhea. Weakness and confusion are also symptoms. All sound like the flu, too. They're everything.

Yeah. Yeah, it's all flu symptoms. If it's caught on early enough, the problem is it can stay in your system and really, like, root itself. So if you don't get it right away it gets in your system and you can't get rid of it stuck it's like stuck in there it's bad yeah it's like a some kind of staph infection almost or something uh it consists of taking the uh they they have a a certain thing here uh but they try to they have to try to remove it from the bloodstream in a certain way there's a procedure they have but like a transfusion and it's like if you only if you find it early enough you can do anything like that uh so they found uh the thallium in peggy's urine

and uh it showed that in her urine she had wow you have a drop of natural amount of this in your body she has 20 000 times the natural amount in her body oh shit sounds like more than a gram that's more than a gram yeah 20 000 times the natural amount sounds like a fuckload more than you should have in your goddamn body uh yeah they tested uh they tested like i said duane and travis their tests also positive but they didn't have quite as much in their system as peggy peggy was loaded with it yeah she would have set off a metal detector probably she was fucking loaded they got it all it's crazy yeah so uh yeah two months for duane in the hospital six months for travis in the hospital uh which is absolutely fucking nuts man think about that i would think about the bill

oh my god yeah it's it's absolutely poor kid he's a teenager two of them they're teenagers and all that weakened them and fucked them all up. It's absolutely crazy. That long in a bed with that kind of poisoning? Yeah. Your body goes to nothing. That's what I mean. Atrophy and everything else.

Yeah. Oh, Jesus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal.

Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes,

you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing

secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Awful. So, yeah, Peggy remains in the hospital, though, through all of this. Now, obviously, there's going to be a thorough investigation to find out where this comes from, because if it's a water thing or if it's a naturally occurring thing, they've got to figure it out.

That's it now. Yeah, they said, you know, do you guys do you guys have like a bunch of thallium that you use around the house for anything? And they're like, no. Have you been growing, growing crops with thallium? Is that your thing? Have you been fertilizing your fields with fucking thallium? Yeah.

Where are you finding things? Where have you found it? It seems as though you found the mother load of all the thallium. 20,000 times what you should have that's a lot so the polk county sheriff's office and they they get other other uh agencies involved in this too because there's a lot of people interested in this they're not going to let some shit kick in mid-central florida sheriff's department handle it on their own let's be honest here hey where's that sheriff that uh got that that the the young black man uh yeah let's

get him over here he'll get to the bottom. Luckily he's been dead for 70 years I'm sure. So also the Polk County Health Department, the Florida Department of Health and Rehabilitation Services and even the EPA came over. Environmental Protection Agency came over. Everybody came over to search the car's

home to look for this source of value. Yeah. They ruled out right away they went to the water. They thought the well water was the, you know, that was the. Culprit. That was, that had the biggest chance of it being the well water. And they, it was clean. Totally well, totally clean.

What they do find though is they find, they search everything and they find eight packs of 16 ounce glass Coca-Cola bottles there. The glass ones. The glass ones. You have to crank. You need a bottle opener. It's 18-ounce, though? 16-ounce.

The tall boys. Are you sure it's not the little fat ones in the 80s? Remember those? The 16-ounce tall boys that they sold eight packs of. In Florida, who knows what they sold. You never know. You never know. Because I remember, if you watch,

it's the ones that were on soda commercials in the 80s that they'd be drinking from that bottle. The polar bear ones. Yeah, the tall boys there. So it's those. Three bottles were full and four were empty that they found out of these seven that were there. So the laboratories tested and found thallium residue

in the four empty bottles not only that they tested the three full unopened bottles sealed unopened bottles and found thallium in it who in the factory is a motherfucker so now they're like oh shit they start freaking the fuck out because this is post the tylenol right when people were poisoning it was a particular people poisoning tylenol bottles and it was a national fucking scare man i mean people freaked because everybody had tylenol in their in their medicine cabinet literally i think that's what made ibuprofen like the number one it's better but i think that's what made it more popular literally people tried it because they were scared of tylenol like that's literally i think what's

made advil maybe it was advil doing it god damn aleve god damn it so uh yeah now they're like oh shit what the fuck do we do now uh oh no they're they're really they're freaked out uh here so they they test these bottles because they got to make sure that these bottles are still factory sealed right so and still have the same amount of carbonation that they would have from the factory and they do they take it to a lab they do all these tests they do find out that these bottles have been opened and resealed so they've been tampered they've been tampered with this is not a factory post the factory not a coca-cola this is not coca-cola at first they literally thought oh my god Opened and resealed. So they've been tampered with. They've been tampered with. Post the factory. Post the factory. It's not a Coca-Cola problem. So this is not Coca-Cola.

At first, they literally thought, oh my God, we could have fucking- With a mass murderer in the fucking Coca-Cola factory. We could have 10 million people in the hospital tomorrow. It was like a disaster movie when they see the test results and they're like, there's way more radiation than we thought. It's one of those where they were like, oh God, and they're holding a Coke and they're like- Find the monkey more radiation than we thought. It's one of those where they were like, oh, God, and they're holding a Coke and they're like, yeah, that's what it is. They were all, everybody dropped what they were doing for a second, and like our fucking, we could, the whole state, the whole country,

we have no idea where the fuck this came from. It could be, they freaked, man. So at this point, the whole thing became a criminal investigation and not an accidental, because at first they were just thinking it was an environmental thing. She somehow came across something. Uh, but now it's,

it's not, uh, they, they found that these bottles had been tampered with. They'd had their caps removed with a small tool and then placed back onto the bottles with a, with another tool, the press.

There's a device that you do it with a machine that does it, a device. And that pops it back on, but they didn't have the same carbonation. You know, when you crack a bottle of Coke, the, that steam comes it, a device, and that pops it back on, but they didn't have the same carbonation. You know when you crack a bottle of Coke, that steam comes out? Yeah, it moves, right? The liquid moves inside. Yeah, and you get not steam, but you get the, you know.

Yeah, the smoke. The smoke comes out. Yeah, the Coke smoke comes out of the top. The Coke smoke was gone, so that's a problem. That's a factory Coke smoke there. It had a green one that came out this time. Yeah. Yeah. Like in a Disney movie. Jesus. Don't drink this one. Oh, that's a factory coke smoke there it had a green one that came out this time yeah like in a disney movie don't drink this one oh that's a bad one like a genie farted it's got green coke oh jesus the coke smoke's green everybody everybody hide the coke smoke's

everybody out oh jesus so now it's a criminal investigation, obviously. Who could have done this? They ask all the kids and everybody in the family, okay, where did you buy the Cokes from? Maybe this is a random thing where somebody put some shit on a shelf, like a Tylenol situation. So they're worried about that. Is this going to be going on all over the place? They don't know if this is targeted toward her or did they just buy some tainted Coke by accident? Did you just happen to get any letters random in the fucking mail? You know what I mean? Any, you know, anybody threatening murder on you?

Did they clarify whether it was a joke or not? That's what we need to know because it's obviously a lot of joking going on. You got any joke letters? You got anybody kidding around? Anybody joshing lately? No? I want to know where that came from. There had to have been a kid named josh that was

just a little shit either that or yeah real funny either that or just a little asshole yeah like he's always pulling shit this fucking josh you're not joshing are you don't be a fucking josh do not be a josh i'll knock your teeth down your throat you josh me we're gonna fight you're going you're gonna be grounded forever if you don't cut this josh bullshit out he's joshing again i'd smack him around don't worry i'd like to know who he was god he must have been a prick so they ask everyone where'd you buy the cokes who bought the cokes and they all looked around and they all said nobody no one in the family bought the coke basically everyone thought whoever went shopping might have bought it so they said we don't no one could remember buying these cokes oh this is crazy in the end no one remember buying they said but we didn't buy them i thought you bought the coke yeah i thought i

didn't buy we figured that dad bought him or mom bought him she didn't buy him you didn't buy him did she buy him did he buy him baby went and got his coke nobody bought so after at the end they go yeah i didn't buy and they go okay well none of you people bought this coke and they go what we just figured somebody bought coke you know if there's seven people in the house if there's two people and you have coke now you go did you buy some coke and they go yeah and you know there's coke right but there's seven people you just assume someone picked up some coke that's true that's it yeah you know who cares they're living in the fucking garage they could have picked it up and you wouldn't go ask did you buy the coke they don't care no grab me one you just

high-five each other and go we've got we've got coke yay so the bottles do the glass ones yeah the good ones cold they're good so what's the coke smoke yeah they just said as they said it's a small town it's very safe and they don't even lock their doors the the cars they said we don't even lock our doors anybody could have put it in our in our house in our kitchen in our living room in our fridge in our carport we don't even lock our doors. Anybody could have put it in our house, in our kitchen, in our living room, in our fridge, in our carport. We don't lock our doors. It's a safe place. We never even thought of it. We just figured it's Coke.

So, wow. They're like, this is weird. So then they ask Pi, and they're like, anybody that would want to do this to you? Any reason? And he said, well, I did get this letter. They're like, we'd sure like to take a look at that, for's sake the fuck didn't you say something fuck me dude what do you got here and they look at it and uh they he said i thought it was a prank and they were like i could see that but now you're fucking you know she's sick and nobody knows where the coke came

from your wife's in a coma and there's mystery coke floating around so let's let's get into this here uh so she peggy the problem is is once the boys got sick they knew it was thallium from peggy so they were able to test them for thallium get them on a treatment plan right away peggy was sick for a month yeah before she ever started any treatment so it got in her system so long that it was just worse and worse and worse she lost the ability to speak she had to use sign language to communicate no eventually went into a coma uh here and then at march 3rd 1989 she had to be taken off life support and she died oh jesus so this is crazy yeah this is she drank some coke and died that just showed up on her porch and she didn't even know she didn't realize she got it

yeah she had no idea. No one knew. They just figured he picked up, oh, there's your stomach hurts? You want a Coke? There's Coke in the fridge? Yeah, sure. Here you go. That's it. I mean, this is the most thankful I've ever been to live alone because if there's something in my fridge I didn't buy, I'd just go, ah, throw that shit out. Start looking around. That's not mine.

You got a bigger problem than shit in your fridge at that point. Who's in your closet who's under your bed someone's in my house good lord this isn't alturas where you leave your doors clearly not eating or drinking whatever the fuck that is and i'm getting the fuck out this is phoenix if someone's in your house it's for bad purposes they're there for not nice things they're there to rob you and they're not even hiding no i can picture him looking out from like behind the couch waiting for you to drink it is he gonna drink it

there he goes i put my jizz in there i do hope that from now on when you grab a drink out of the fridge you look at sarah you go do you buy this oh yeah i will from now on i want to know where every stop every drink in my home came from where'd you buy this i'm gonna quiz her just to make where'd you get it how much was you buy that yeah where is it on sale got a receipt let's see your receipt let's go i want to see your loyalty rewards card statement i want to make sure that this count how many fuel points do we have let's go let's go's go. Crack it up. So, yeah, it's crazy here. So he's she's dead.

They're like they have no fucking earthly clue who could have done this. They don't know if this is a random. They, you know, they got them off the shelves and somebody might have forgot they bought the Coke maybe. Or did they really not buy it? And someone came in and planted it there. And if so so who the fuck kills people like this a who has the reason to be yeah i mean at first they're thinking maybe it was pie killing it off his wife that he just married and now all the kids are here maybe it

got too much for him he killed her but they didn't think so it just didn't it didn't add up not one of these scenarios is less is more comfortable all of these are horrible terrible he was a he was a happy newlywed at that point the only thing i guess it's less horrifying that if it's someone that hates you specifically than if it was just some random person putting shit on the shelves anybody could have got that's terrible you know yeah you well to me that's easier because it's like okay well who hates me if a lot of people don't hate me then i'm probably not going to have that whereas if i buy it on a shelf anybody could have done it sort of thing so that's the most scary to me just because so many children drink coke whether it just be a little bit or they have a fucking sip off their parents or they yeah so many children a lot of people

fucked up it's great a lot of just everybody people so it's and this is also in the 80s too before you know soda was demonized as a you know know, not good for you. I got one more question. How many of your family pets are dead in the last year? That's the other thing. Because we've got some really horrible things happening. And that's the other thing. At that point. How much Coke do those drink?

They drink in the Coke, too? Well, at that point, that's what they said, too. They go, he said, my dogs got sick and died, too, in the month. They go, well, that's interesting. They didn't drink Coke, did they? No. They're like, okay. Yeah.

So they're really, you know, they're starting to really try to put this this is a puzzle you know this is a lot to put together um they look at a lot of different people they talk to they literally ask pie have you did you you know did someone cut you off in traffic even like what who could possibly have any beef with you and And they're like, we live in the middle of nowhere. We don't have any problems with anybody. The only people we even know are our next door neighbors. So they're like, because they just moved in that year. The wife just moved in.

The doctor. No, Peggy just moved in that year with all her kids. So the only people out here are our neighbors. We don't really know anybody else. We have friends, but they're not going to kill me. So they said, okay, well, we've got to talk to them. Maybe they know something because they live there. Maybe they saw somebody going in or whatever.

So they talked to George Trapal, the next-door neighbor here. And they find out through a bunch of people, witnesses, different people around town, that Trapal has had a lot of problems with, with, with, with, with pie specifically. And then with,

then with, with later on Peggy as well, everybody. Okay. Basically tons of arguments, tons of all sorts of shit. There's a guy named Alan Adams who did lawn care for Sherpaul in 82 and 83. And at that point he saw George Sherppal interact with the children who lived on on pie's property at the time and uh

he said quote trappal always got highly upset and usually yelled obscenities at them oh at the children uh trappal quote made threats toward the car children and on several on several different occasions. One time, Tripal said, quote, I will get them. Another time, Tripal got highly upset when they rode some motorcycles through his yard and yelled, I'm going to kill you. This is 1983. I mean, this is five years earlier. But these are all there's some beef there that that's they have nothing else to go on here. there that that's don't they have nothing else to go on here uh now margaret smith who is pie's first wife and uh mother of his kids tammy and travis he uh she obviously lived with pie next

door for several years and she said that uh trapal hated the car's dogs uh hated pie's dogs the most uh several times uh margaret smith saw traprapal quote throwing sticks or stomping his foot at them to try to get them out of his yard which is stomping the foot hey get out of here get lost I can see that get out of my yard but not you know stop shitting on my yard. Throwing shit at dogs? Throw shit at some dog that's just weird

that's being an asshole at that point so a guy named Jeff Schaefer he bought the cars home after Peggy's death. The rest of the cars moved out and became Trapal's new neighbor here. We'll talk about him, too. Now, Schaefer, when he moves in, he talks to Trapal. And Trapal's like, hey, you bought this house.

These people lived here before you. And Trapal tells Schaefer that Pi had a drinking problem and that pie used to irritate her Paul by coming over to the house to George's house here while drunk and banging on his door. So he said pie would be all shit faced and come bang on my door for no reason. That was like a complaint. So don't you do that to me? Don't do don't be doing that. He's basically making them out like they're the bumpuses in the Christmas story. You know what I mean?

Like they're just this fucking trash brood with dogs tag group dogs ripping turkeys off the counter and you know no front porch people fall out you know just the whole mess so but it's not really that they're just getting by these people uh so also george trappal told schaefer that there was a quote big social difference between the Chappelle and Carr families because the Chappelle's were reserved and childless and kept to themselves. And they said that the cars were, quote, kind of redneck ish and the children weren't disciplined the way they should be. That's how Chappelle put it to Schaefer. The kids are kind of redneck ish.

They're all kind of redneck is, but the kids aren't disciplined. They're cut ups. Yeah. Yeah. That's what's going on here. I mean, let's call a spade a spade. You're in Florida, George. You're in rural Florida.

What do you expect? That's what's going to happen here. I guess the kids, the car kids really bothered Trapal by playing the radio too loudly and being what he called disrespectful, which is, you know, with this guy, who knows? He sounds like a real fun guy, this Trapal, doesn't he george is not a fun guy no doesn't sound fun he moved out to the out to the rural area to like quiet yeah and then he moved in next to this he gets the beverly hillbillies next to him he's not happy about it jesus christ uh now pie estimated that he had disagreements with trapal uh about 10 to 12 times over the years.

He's had big blowups. How long has he lived there? You know, 10 years. That's a lot. That's a lot of blowups. I've had zero with my neighbors, mainly because I barely look at them. Right. I just wait.

How are you doing? I talk to mine from time to time and zero. Zero interaction or arguments. Yeah. time and zero uh zero interaction or arguments yeah uh one day the cars there pie was working on travis's son's truck in the back of the workshop and basically they were they and there was another person there and they were all listening to uh what what what pie called a quote party tape that had like i don't know it was a party tape yeah in the 80s you just buy tapes that were like it's a it's it's a, it's party mix.

It's, you know, it's Ronald Reagan rapping on your answering machine or whatever. It would just be like stupid, because tapes were like a big thing. This was a tape, it was a party tape, and it had like dirty jokes on it, basically. It was like a bunch of dirty jokes. Or was there just like, you know, sketches in between songs? No, no, no, it wasn't, it wasn't music. It was like a, it was, yeah in between songs? No, no, no. It wasn't music. It was like... It was just... Yeah.

Somebody put together some compilation of like shitty fucking dad jokes and, you know, stuff like that. The nightmare. This sounds awful. I'm on your side, George. I hate it too. At this point, you go, hey, that shit's hacky. Turn it off.

Turn it off, you hacky fucks. You haven't heard that joke, you fucking jerks. Jeff Foxworthy is going to get real big soon, and you guys are going to be thrilled. But until then, cut it out. You guys are going to get DVDs of this shit. I'm so happy with Larry the Cable Guy. It's not even funny. So the tape was played loudly, I guess, and Chappelle came over to talk to Pi about it three times.

He kept coming back, and Pi did not turn the tape down. He wouldn't turn his fucking shit down. I'm going to dirty jokes on full volume damn it i loves it i ain't taking shit from you nerd boy you can't handle a dick joke come on now i got a better one for you so uh two jews walk in to a whorehouse two jews walk into a clan meeting stop me if you heard it to a whorehouse. Two Jews walk in to a Klan meeting. Stop me if you heard it. Fucking ridiculous.

They brought latkes. Two Jews with knishes walk in to a Klan meeting. Stop me if you heard this one. And the boys at that meeting go, what you got in that potato pillow? All right, I've heard it.

Yes, I've heard it yes i've heard this it's gonna get real racist around here all the jokes i got are racist i don't i figure that's the party makes a bunch of racist jokes like shit about like tit jokes and like stuff like that jokes that are like borderline rapey you know what i mean really super super angry about women yeah you want you wanted a facelift why don't you just take your bra yeah stretch your stretch your face skin out hard to say no when you're slurring your speech give her enough or another drink buddy hey it's like one of those you know hey isn't that funny no not really not at all no no

no that's not funny so jesus christ that's your wife man fuck in march 1988 the cars that's when they converted their garage into the apartment for the girls uh trappal called the zoning board to complain oh for god's sake you live in the middle of nowhere we don't care what you do out there are you kidding me you think we care that someone is putting some drywall up in their garage in the middle of the citrus grove the fuck do we care you're not your next neighbor's a quarter mile away and they're occupying an easy up who gives a shit care yeah get back to us jesus christ trappal claimed that it violated the zoning ordinance uh county code inspector issued the cars a notice of violation for

building without a permit and then later pie got a permit and did it and then finish it and he did it legal right it was legal right and then he did it all while listening to a very loud party and then he put it on even louder how's that that and hammers take that this joke's about mexicans you're gonna love it while he's zipping drywall yeah fuck so in september of 88 this is pre the sickness pre uh peggy sickness i don't know I can't remember Peggy for some reason. I want to call her Diana because they're both named car. It's driving me fucking crazy. Even though it's Dr. Diana, it's DD.

Right. I have to employ tricks in my head to remember a full cast of characters every week. Every week we have a new full cast of a dozen hillbillies that I need to fucking. It's ridiculous. You got to get to know them. Yeah. And then fucking delete it. And then tell it, tell it to you guys and then forget it ever happened and do a start

over again. So, uh, this day here in September, uh, this is, uh, uh, one of the children's, uh, one of their daughters, husband, Ronald Chester was there. Ronnie Chester, Ronnie Chester. Nice to meet you, bud. That's like Joe Dirt's real name. Right. So he was working on his truck.

And of course, this is Florida. And he had the radio on, of course. And Chappelle asked Chester to turn the radio down because Chappelle was trying to read a book. He said that, this is Ronald Chester, said that Chappelle was shaking and, quote, acted like he was upset. He said Chester turned the radio down. And like two minutes later, Chappelle came out again and told him to turn the radio down, even though the radio was down and wasn't playing, wasn't loud anymore. So George is a pain in the ass. George is very particular in the way he wants things.

And if these. Yeah, he's very upset that these rednecks are not dropping into their life. My water pump is not going to fix itself without I can't drive 55 turned up to 10. I got to crank it, you see. I like. That's how you get these lug nuts loose. If I don't put the speed wagon on, it's real hard for me to get in the groove. You know what I'm saying?

That makes me want to get into it if I put the speed wagon on the thing. It gets it done faster. You understand that speed is in the band yeah you put that fog hat on and you just get in the groove you know slow and slow baby oh you know how it goes right there buddy poison's new album spectacular let me tell you something really rocketed so they're uh now the the water to these houses are supplied by wells. They each have a well. On different occasions, each home have to share. They have like a share set up, too, where if one of them is, if they need to.

Drops low. Yeah, they need to go to the other one. They go to the other one. So in October of 88 was one of the times that one of the wells was supplying water to both of the houses. Chappelle came over to the cars to complain about the radio playing outside. And Pi told Chappelle they'd turn the radio off soon. Relax, George. I'll turn it off soon.

So after Chappelle left, they turned the radio down. Later on, one of the kids turned the radio on while washing his car. George came out and complained again. He's just got a real radio down. Later on, one of the kids turned the radio on while washing his car. George came out and complained again. He's just got a real radio problem. Pi told Trapal here that Travis was just listening to the radio and washing his car and to relax. And after Pi went into the house, Trapal disconnected the water hose from the house. So he couldn't. So it's just getting petty now.

It's silly and petty. So he couldn't fucking do it. So it's just getting petty now. It's silly and petty. Yeah. Now, a few days before Peggy became ill, George's wife, Dr. Diana, had a little talk with Peggy about some loud music. She had a little interaction here. The car children were outside playing music.

And they said that George said it was at the time was telling his wife it was really loud. Even inside their house, it was loud. So Diana asked Peggy to have the children turn the music down. Peggy told Diana that they didn't have to. She said, I don't have to. So she said, okay. So at this point, Diana and George were both home at that time also as well so then she she you know gets sick later on but two days before she uh two days before peggy gets sick diana comes back again in a rage the family says that diana was quote screaming and cussing and yelling and ranting

and raving about music again they said that her level of anger the way they put it their her level of anger was way out of proportion to the situation yeah it didn't match just like hey man we're trying to do that you might turn the radio down she was like yo fucking bastards out of the way it was like just like whoa she came out at a 12 where did all this come from like you could just say can you please turn the radio down because we're doing something and normally people will be like oh cool right you know but it sounds like she's been listening to george for the past few months. She can't take it. They're just in there stewing. She can't take another word out of him.

I feel like they're both egging each other on and they just burst out of the door. Everybody's like, what the fuck? Yeah, they've been getting each other jacked up about it for an hour. And they're like, dude, we just showed up here, man. So apparently when Peggy again said, you know, she wasn't going to do what Diana wanted. Diana stormed off and shouted, quote, You won't get away with this. This isn't over. So that's what they were looking at.

So with all of this, they're like, OK, yeah, we who are these people? Who are these neighbors? We need to find out a little more about authorities. Get to that point with all these stories. But why didn't pie when they go? Do you have anybody that hates you? Why didn't he go? Oh, that dude.

That dude hates my fucking guts. Me. Cause it was like, they're just, it's the doctor and his, and his, and her book reading husband. It's not a,

it's not a thing that you think it was a, he's, he's not threatened by George. No, they doesn't scare him at all. They're like, I don't know. It's fucking nerds next door.

They're not thinking of them like that as a threat at all. The guy reads books, James yeah he can read he wrote a note right which means he wrote right and rest my case right there not scared sorry right anybody i'm scared of isn't lettered right read the back of my truck it says ain't scary ain't or. Or I think that's what it says. Because you know what? I ain't a pussy. I ain't no reading pussy going around writing things, reading letters and stuff, just writing everything. The guy down at Pep Boys told me that's what it says.

Yeah, so I feel like he's not. So they look into him a little bit. They find out that they're very smart. They're both members of Mensa. If you don't't know what mensa is it's a high iq it's brilliant society it's the it's basically top two percent iq it's 130 and over or whatever so uh diana had majored in chemistry in college that's interesting uh and she's an orthopedic surgeon oh uh dr diana orthopedic it's just different things okay yeah you're thinking podiatrist and yeah orthopedic can be any kind of okay different bones things and stuff got it

so uh yeah she worked long hours because she's an orthopedic surgeon sort of important uh he george is a freelance computer programmer is what says, and he kind of works from home. Doesn't have any office that he has to go to or a job outside the home. Now, they look into it, and they look in, obviously, Dr. Diana's chemistry background. Yeah. But they really are looking at George the most. Diana's not there very much because she's at work so much. And he's the real angry one. And he's the one who's there dealing with him being pissed off all the time she comes

in and she's mad for an hour but then she's not there that much so it doesn't matter so they look at that they have they look at their pro they have an fbi profile of a poisoner here and uh their profile of this poisoner is a white male extremely intelligent passive personality avoids direct conflicts which sounds exactly like george too they're like he fits the profile perfectly uh a white male, extremely intelligent, passive personality, avoids direct conflicts, which sounds exactly like George, too. They're like, he fits the profile perfectly. Yeah, women don't tend to poison outwardly. They poison in their own home.

Yeah, they're in-house poisoners. The husband, the dogs. Men need to, men shoot their jizz everywhere. You know, women keep it all inside their business. Inside their womb. Everything that goes in there or came out of there. Yeah, men. That's who get it.

Spread their seed. Right. Their poison seed everywhere. So that's how it works. So they questioned George. They wanted a little sit down with him, obviously. They want to talk to him. They said that he seemed nervous.

Yeah. He was avoiding eye contact and stuttering and, you know, nervousness. They asked him why. They said, let me ask you you why would you think somebody might want to poison the cars do you have any idea you know because normal answer would be i don't fucking know yeah i don't know they do something to somebody i have a piece of shit out of me that'd be my thing if you asked me like a stranger why would i don't know maybe they did something to him he says instead quote someone must have wanted them to move out of the neighborhood. What the fuck?

Pardon? The strangest answer we've... The neighborhood is two houses, sir. Yeah, what are you talking about? The only other person is you. That's the thing. And they said they questioned more than 50 people that were friends and neighbors from nearby and everything about that. They asked them all the exact same question.

Why do you think anybody might want to hurt hurt them he's the only person that said that only person only person that had maybe they someone wanted to move no one else said that so that made him stand out right away they all had similar answers that normal people have not he had the answer that he would have he was yeah he was being very honest uh they said that's interesting because that was obviously the exact sentiment that that letter was also sent to them. So they were like, OK. He also claims that he's usually he usually would go to Diana to work. He'd go to work with Diana at the hospital or at the office or whatever.

So he wasn't at home very much. So he wouldn't have had any access to the car's house, you though he doesn't have to be anywhere and he works from home pretty much. They said that now the Carr family said that George rarely leaves his house. He rarely goes with Diana. He's always home, basically. So they look into George a little bit deeper. George is born in 1949 in New York City. He's the son of a cop and a New york city police officer really and an elementary school

teacher so 1949 those were like the two most upstand a school teacher and a policeman those are like the two most people make an astronaut that's what i mean those two together a fucking astronaut pops out or something john glenn's parents were probably a cop and a teacher when he came out of his mother's womb, a flag fell out after him. They were like, here comes the son. Open, here's the flag. Okay, good.

They probably could have solved this investigation really fast by two cops sitting on either end of the table and the suspect. Any of the people, anybody that they interview, have three Cokes on the table and slide one to them and go,

the car's had some left on their patio. Would you like one? And then just start drinking it. Yeah. And then see if they drink it. If they don't drink it, Yahtzee. That's your guy. That's it.

Cuff him. You're down. So they look into that. They said that, you know, he said he was a smart kid early on, that he grew up in South Carolina and also in Charlotte. charlotte he had they said a pretty normal childhood his father's name was george his mother's name was mabel and uh that was about it he uh once he moved out of his parents house he was in an apartment he was in charlotte if uh rented a place for 125 bucks a month. That was around the early 70s.

He graduated from high school in Florence, South Carolina. He was 106th out of 284 in his class there. In 1959, he had an IQ test that says that he has an IQ of 130. In the fall of 66, he goes to Clemson University. He ends up dropping out in 68, though, because his grades weren't high enough to maintain. But in 1969, he enrolls at the University of South Carolina and graduates in 72 with a Bachelor of Science degree with a major in psychology. So smart guy, you know, goes to school, does his shit. He also studies chemistry uh at south carolina uh there and now

he also when he's in college he digs psychedelics he digs drugs yeah and a lot of the kids in the chemistry department sure they like psychedelics because they could put some stuff together what it does pretty fucking good make a good one so yeah uh he also was kind of reckless with it, though. While he was at Clemson specifically, he somehow was convinced that people, other students, were coming into his dorm room when he wasn't there. So he didn't want anybody coming in and, like, partying or doing stuff. So to teach them a lesson, he coated his doorknob in liquid hallucinogens. Basically, liquid LSD he coated his doorknob in.

So when they come in, it's going to seep into their skin and they're going to be all fucking whacked out. Chiz on my pillow again. Take that, motherfucker. My pillow smelled like bleach.

I'm going to do that shit. So that's pretty fucked up, though. Anytime you dose anybody with something like a psychedelic unknowingly unknowingly that's crazy crazy time they're gonna end up in the hospital uh especially for coming they weren't stealing from them or anything they're college kids and who knows if these kids have ever even done that shit before you're gonna get somebody that's not even into drugs at all and you're gonna fucking ruin them that's what i'm saying so and now also a few years later he was on a cross-country trip and uh they had uh psychedelic laced brownies they had different drugs uh laced in their brownies and they would pick up hitchhikers and give them to

the hitchhikers just to see what happened oh he's a dick yeah so that's what i mean that's that's crazy it's fucked up yeah it's fucked up he being a dick. This is basically he's like a picture of fear and loathing in Las Vegas. Right. Fucking that. He's him and his friend go and fucking tripping the hitchhiker out, except that he's also giving him drugs. He doesn't even know about, which is nuts. This is ridiculous. It's fucking crazy.

Yeah. Insanity. So he says that he was self-employed as an exterminator in 1973, and he made approximately 45 bucks a week back then. He also says that he was involved in kinetic sculpture art, which uses junk parts to create sculpture figures, like Nick on Family Ties, speaking of Family Ties, like Mallory's boyfriend. He says that he never sold any of his work but he made it like welding metal together and yeah yeah that's what he's doing and weird look at that i made a bunch of garbage and now it's a sculpture garbage man outside now hey garbage man so he also jesus christ in south carolina turns out he was doing more than just

being an exterminator and making garbage sculptures. Turns out he was also running one of the largest methamphetamine labs in the southeast at the time. Holy shit. For three years, he was a giant methamphetamine maker. He was Walter White in the 70s. Wow. And he had exactly what he was, a guy with a degree and all that and he just not the guy you'd expect if you saw him out you would be like oh he probably makes meth right but he makes meth right uh he made shorts and tall socks tall socks boy low shoes yeah tall socks so he is arrested in 1975 in charlotte south Carolina, for running this enormous methamphetamine lab. He ends up serving three years in federal prison for this in the late 70s.

His particular method of cooking meth, because there's different ways of making meth, there's different formulas. And not all meth is created equal, Jimmy. No, it's not. I don't know if you know that. You're not a big meth user. I'm not, but i do know that he used a method known as the p2p method and in this particular method you need to use thallium really in it yeah so rat poison in it oh fuck yeah that

one meth has meth is 98 percent poison battery that particular. That particular poison is one of them. That's a nutty poison. Yeah. In this particular, I don't know how much of it you use, but in the P2P method, thallium, at least in the 70s, I don't know about now, but that's what they used for it. So he's very familiar with thallium, has worked with it. You worked with it for years, successfully making meth. So in the 1970s, this is the type of guy he is, okay?

In the 1970s, he at type of guy he is okay in the 1970s he at first uh had a good attitude in prison and uh people the parole progress report filed 10 months after his incarceration said this quote trapal has maintained an above average institutional adjustment as has responded well to programs he's taught a chemistry course and has worked on a mural for the education department, is in the process of making videotapes for that department, has prepared a variety of posters and information for inmates that relate to the using of mathematics in the community. In addition to the above activities, he has completed a vocational training course that's led to securing of his FCC licenses. He can run a radio station. Also, he's active in the yoga program. He offers the following release plans.

Residence with his parents. Employment. A pro-film service is a guaranteed job that he has lined up in Columbia, South Carolina. He's been sentenced to three years, but officials at the federal prison recommend he get paroled. But he ends up not being paroled right away i don't know they wanted to hold him longer they said that the uh gravity of his offense uh weighed against him apparently with it's too much math it's too much you made too much math basically is what it was so uh yeah they also said that his the people he was making it for

were like huge drug dealers so it wasn't like you were making a little operation. This was like a- He was trafficking all the- It was a Southwest cartel of meth. Supplying everything from North Carolina down. That's what I mean. Like all the meth that's out there, most of it his fault. So, you know, I mean, someone else would have made it, obviously.

But after his parole is denied, he totally changes. He turns into a total asshole. Oh, he's a dick now. Now he's pissed. Now he's pissed because he tried to be a good guy. Hey, I'm fine. Everything's great.

They deny his parole. He was like, how dare you? No more, Mr. Nice Guy. Done. He would write memos to the jail people about the other people in prison. What? He would complain about his neighbors in prison they're prisoners dude this is in the virginia living unit of the butler north carolina federal prison my felons aren't nice enough well no this is this is a typewritten complaint now

normally i wouldn't do this but this is so his personality that we need to put this in okay wow this is fucking crazy he says quote a memo written by some guy who's the executive assistant on may 26th 1976 concerning loud radios remains on some bulletin boards but is not enforced by custody or team members he's pissed about loud music the memo states quote radios may be played in individual rooms at a reasonable sound level. Then parentheses, reasonable level will be determined by a staff member. It is expected that each individual choosing to play a radio will exercise good judgment and will consider others when selecting appropriate sound level. They're in prison.

Who's appropriate and polite and fucking judgment? What are we talking about here? That's usually determined based upon who's got the stronger fist. That's it's prison. It stays this loud or goes lower based on who hits who harder in prison there's not a lot of hey dude be cool right that doesn't yeah like hey chill no hey fuck you how's that a lot of fuck yous we're not a lot of hey be cool yeah quote the former unit manager mr shepley wrote several memos during the past six months on the noise situation stating offenders with loud radios a, a radio that is played so it can be heard in another person's room or hallway, would lose their radio for an unspecified period. The present unit manager, Mr. Barncastle, wrote a memo stating radios are not to be played so they can be heard outside the rooms.

To date, no change has taken place, no radios have been taken taken away and no disciplinary action has been taken a number of months ago i talked to several inmates about their radios and discovered that talking to noisy radio offenders in a civil manner does no good no shocking in federal prison you go excuse me sir would you mind if they go hey go fuck your mother they're in prison shut the fuck up meth boys i discovered that talking to noisy radio offenders in a civil manner does no good. It's like I'm in prison or something with these people. As far as I'm concerned, the necessary paperwork concerning the excessive noise has been prepared,

but the correctional officers and team members have no intention of seeing that the rules and regulations in the memos are enforced. Jesus Christ. And then he writes the rights and responsibilities. It does all this thing. So if no one looks at your policy statement,

it can be seen that no effort is being put forth with the noise offenders to teach them responsibility or consideration for others. Wow. This is one of the main reasons for inmates being locked up, lack of handling responsibility and inconsideration for others. You made meth for three years he's acting like he's just visiting he's then says in summary i want something done exclamation point i

don't want another memo i want action who are you complaining to you're in jail as i write this three radios are going on three different stations i don't know whether the custody people are lazy or just simply terrified of inmates i do know that they don't earn their pay. Come on, fellows. I'm playing by your rules. I teach three classes a day in education. I have no discipline reports, have a unanimous team recommendation for parole, and have been put in Section 9 Monetary Award. I need a lot of quiet time for study and class preparation. When are you going to play by your own rules? I've seen so far, all I've seen so far is mostly tight memos

and a lot of promises. How about some action? Prison he's in. He's not writing a condo board saying that his neighbors are. It is very well written though. That's pretty impressive. And they went,

this fucking guy is hilarious. They crumpled it up and threw it in the garbage. This is very well written garbage. If he wasn't in prison, someone would read this jesus christ did he say he was kidding or not throw it away throw it away this is not a joke okay i think it's a joke i think it's a joke it's just a joke i'm not taking it seriously

so he's uh released from prison there and they said he looked like he was on the straight and narrow he uh keeps going to mensa meetings and that that's where he meets Diana, Dr. Diana. While he's in prison. While he's at a Mensa meeting after he's released from prison. So, yeah, he gets out of prison, and he starts Mensa-ing. Yeah. And, yeah. Me too.

Yeah, he meets another smart lady here, meets his wife, which is pretty good, I guess. Right. He's fucking not too shabby. He gets to meet a woman. So in Diana, though, George meets somebody that he can get along with. He doesn't mind that she is very ambitious because we're talking late 70s, early 80s. There was still a weird thing with some husbands didn't want their wives to be real ambitious and go do things outside the home.

I don't understand. But he knew that she was going to be a doctor and he was all for it. It was great with it. Yeah, go be a great orthopedic surgeon. Make a shitload of money. Yeah, that's all great. So they also, they loved, the two of them, their passion together, what they like to do is true crime and mysteries.

They're really into true crime here. They would love podcasts. They would love this shit. True. George would like this podcast if we weren't ripping him apart. George studied police manuals and he thought that he was an expert in on in crime scene procedures. So he would study this type of shit and was all into it. Except for he's never fucking done it.

Never done it. But he knows the knows what you're supposed to do anyway. He knows the investigative procedures. So he is they bring him in for an interview here based on all his background. Let's talk to George. No one else even knows what the fuck Thallium is. He's literally made it dance before. So let's talk to him a little bit here.

So Detective Ernest Mincy brings him in here. He brings him in and this is December 22 in and he this is December 22nd 1988. This is when they talk to him. He looks nervous like we talked about. He says he's self-employed. He's a technical writer, a computer programmer and says he knows nothing about thallium. That's what he tells them. I don't know what that is.

Never heard of it before. So then they asked him about, you know, why would someone want to poison him? And he said, maybe they want him to leave, you know, that sort of want to poison him? And he said, maybe they want him to leave. You know, that sort of shit. Bad answers all the way around. Bad answers all the way around. So, yeah, they ask him all that shit. Then after that's when they learn about his degree in chemistry and all this type of shit.

And, oh, he ran a meth lab that he used the P2P meth, blah, blah, blah. So they started going, he knows about thallium. He lied to that. It's a lot of circumstantial. Yeah, it's a lot of circumstantial. They have conversations with him. They said that he could just tell his animosity toward them. They said that it showed that his hostility toward the cars, even after Peggy was dead and the cars moved away, he was still angry at them, which they thought was odd.

at them, which they thought was odd. He told an agent, Gorick, who's a woman here, tells agent, it's only important because later on she comes back, tells her that Pi Carr was, quote, always trying to sell him something and tried to sell him everything but his wife.

So I don't know if he was trying to sell shit. I don't know the level of redneckery we're dealing with. They're trying to, like, I'll try George. If he don't want it, I'll go to the pawn shop. I don't know if that works. I found this down by the creek, and I don't know the level of redneckery we're dealing with if we're just trying to they're trying to like i'll try george if he don't want i'll go to the pawn shop i don't know if that works i found this down by the creek and i don't know what it is but i think it's worth you want it i'll take forfeiting so they said as he continued talking george seemed to get more and more agitated about it just talking about the cars uh he also told FBI agent, because now the FBI is involved because we have a poisoning tampering with things.

It's the FBI gets involved in that shit. Yeah. Anybody tampering with a product that goes on a shelf, they're going to get involved in that real quick. Uh, this guy, he, uh,

says that he tells them, he, uh, George tells this guy that the cars had not been friendly to him or his wife and that pie tried to take advantage of them by selling them a barbecue cooker that pie had made. I don't know if he's making shopping cart jerk chicken or what over there. 50 gallon drum. He saw it in half.

I made it. Yeah. There. Look at that. Now I don't have any fucking fire in it. Yeah. Jesus Christ. He said they also got mad because George made an oral agreement to buy pies

workshop that's behind their houses for $10,000. But then pie backed out of the deal, pissing George off greatly. He's like, I don't want to sell it now. Yeah. And George thought they had a done deal. He's already making plans back there.

Now he's not going to sell it. George complained about the people, the tons of people always coming and going from the house with teenagers and people like that. And he said all of them have trucks in and out, all these big trucks. It's Florida. Yeah. They said that George acted angry and exhibited animosity, which they said that this was, you know, he was talking about shit that happened in 1982. Fuck.

And they said that the FBI agent thought it was unusual since the incidents were years old, like seven years old. And he's still like that fucking where they didn't sell me the workshop in 81. I started buying all this shit to make meth. I got all this thallium. What am I going to do with it now? Now what? Jesus Christ.

So he's a suspect, obviously, but it's all circumstantial and they need to, you know, find some evidence here. That would help so in april 89 there's an article in the newspaper advertising uh events for the mensa organization of which george and diana are members right the article discusses an upcoming mensa murder weekend what which is a murder mystery yeah thing that they're gonna have where it's you play roles and you know all that shit uh murder mystery you know how it works we've did an episode on one a few weeks ago in maryland right yeah uh it's awful it's stupid yeah so uh this is this particular event george and diana are the

hosts so it's at a holiday inn yep and it's uh it's a class it's at a Holiday Inn. Yep. And it's a class. It's a holiday. Yeah. And they're going to have it there. And they're the ones hosting it. So they have to write the story and do all the shit and get everything ready for this murder mystery. Okay. So now Susan Goric, who's a special agent with the Sheriff's Department, and we talked

about here, she starts an undercover investigation by attending the event the event under an assumed name she just goes totally undercover under the name sherry gwynn okay she joins the mensa thing and does the whole deal right uh so she's trying to figure out how to get close to them her her other sheriff's department people said quote you won't have any luck confronting him and this is from her book and i'll give the name of it at the end here uh she said you've got to you've got to get him in a way that he won't find threatening he's not going to confrontation isn't his thing uh so they said on the phone uh they you know they talked about doing something undercover and doing that and that maybe that would work uh so they said that they had another woman they were going to do it

who was good at undercover but they said that trapal would be too smart and would believe that she's very attractive and intelligent just was like she said she's a glamorous looking blonde too pretty to be that smart and they said that he would basically george would know that this lady wouldn't want to hang out with him and talk to him okay so that she's too good right george is too he's gonna go she's not having there's no interest in me right it's got to have somebody that's more kind of in his ballpark uh so they said they the uh you know they're trying to figure it out so they find they find uh susan goric here and uh she meets them at the mensa murder weekend goric meets george and diana and uh they hit it off because she's good at this she knows what

she's doing and diana works long hours so george and sherry start hanging out together by themselves and uh she plays she said they she says that she would play into his intellectual pride and his vanity and his vanity she'd encourage him to brag about you know what he's done in the past and shit like that what a smart guy he is uh you know she said she tried to be careful though she said if they were eating in a restaurant and she got up to go to the bathroom she wouldn't eat anything else when she came back to the table clever she wouldn't touch a fucking thing yeah uh she just didn't know maybe they knew when they were a poisoner yeah what the fuck does she know she doesn't want to get poisoned so they did the murder weekend here so she might trip on acid after. That's the other thing. Yeah. She knows about that shit.

It's all in the records. So they found out. They do the local at the Holiday Inn, the murder weekend. There's four murders acted out during the weekend. Okay. That's how they do it. The participants act out their different roles. The story had something to do with voodoo, apparently.

It's like a voodoo thing. The murders were, they called them very sophisticated each one of the four were preceded by the victim receiving a threatening note interesting uh now uh diana wrote the murder scenarios with george's help they did it together here george uh himself wrote a booklet given to the all the participants of this that discussed poisoning and threats by neighbors okay it said listen to this this is a quote from the fucking booklet this is after all this happened yeah quote few voodooists believe they can be killed by psychic means but no one doubts that he can be poisoned when a death threat appears on the doorstep prudent people throw out

all their food and watch what they eat hardly anyone dies from magic most items on the doorstep are just a neighbor's way of saying i don't like you move or else what the fuck are you kidding me how ballsy is this so wow this is fucking crazy so this is like oj writing a book how i did how i got away with it but right afterwards like the wall the trial before they even arrested him let me let me talk about this how i would butcher an ex-wife here it goes i'd almost cut a woman's head off and i don't like waiters so he uh jesus christ they during the weekend uh george and diana tell goric tell the special agent here, that they were planning to move and that they might be selling their home in Alturas. Gork told, so the agent here tells George that she would like to look at the home if it's for sale because she's looking for a place around there.

So, hey, I'll check it out. Invites her in to look around. So this is what I mean. Yeah. So a few days after this, Agent Gork, she's Sherry now. We'll just call her Sherry. She goes to the home talking about buying it and all that type of shit. And then she visited a bunch of more times in May and June of 1989.

She became friends with them and basically learned a lot about them, learned that George was very interested in botany and knew a lot about poisonous plants as well. She really got in easy with them she said it wasn't hard for her to spend time with george alone because he was up to talking to her lonely and lonely because diana was gone a lot and she would encourage him to she played to his ego basically it's the old eddie murphy joke where they say you just got to play to a man's ego and you could get any man to like you just got to cater to his ego because we're stupid. You'll get out of him. We're dumb. And if someone plays our ego, we go that.

That must mean I'm really great. Right. And then we just think that because we're idiots. That's how it works. Tell him that his dick is huge in every different way. It's fine. Right. You have to say arms are giant.

One time. Right. I need different time. You have to say it once. You could mention, I think your dick is a little above average in size. And he'd be like, she thinks my dick is huge. It's amazing. I'm going to marry her.

Fucking broad is just head over heels for me. We're dumb. So she said that he never admitted anything, but she found several clues around the house. During one visit, she noticed an Agatha Christie novel lying on the table, which was The Pale Horse, which was about thallium poisoning. Really? Yeah. The novel's murderer used thallium to poison the victims. And at one point, while they were friends, Sherry was saying that she was getting a divorce from her husband.

George suggested that she should poison her husband to get what she wanted out of the divorce settlement. She also found out that he made homemade wine and he owned a tool that can uncap and recap bottles. Uh-oh. So, yeah, she's finding out quite a bit of shit here. So, yeah, they expect this to last a few months, and they'll get him. But he's very smart, and he never confesses to anything. So this ends up going on for two years, this operation. In November 89, George and his wife move out they move to sebring

florida so from december 89 to january 90 sherry gwynn or gorick uh rents their house so the instant she gets the keys they just tear it apart as a crime scene at that point it's you know december 12th 89 they come in with the full team and investigate and search the whole thing. Wow. They found FBI agent found a brown bottle inside a drawer, a small drawer in a workbench in the workbench in Georgia's detached garage. In this uncapped bottle, he saw some residue in it. So they sent it to the lab and it came back positive for thallium that's what the powder was in there so uh yeah that's not a good

thing throw that shit out apparently he'd leave it behind when he moves that's crazy dummy so they execute search warrants here uh they find uh now this is after all of this, they go arrest him. We'll talk about at his place in Sebring and they search that place as well. And we'll talk about this. They find the thallium in the garage at their home in Alturas. They find a homemade journal on poisoning in George's home in Sebring where where they were uh including literature literature about thallium and medical examination procedures uh it's literally like he made a journal of how to poison people it's fucking crazy how to murder with it laboratory equipment at the sebring home uh chemicals and a small amount of what they believed to be uh meth he's making meth again

too that's why he has thallium, because he was making meth again. Also, they found, this is weird, a secret, soundproof room and equipment for apparent use in torture and bondage in the basement. He had a torture, he had a soundproof torture bondage

room. Now, I would say maybe him and his wife were just kinky. Wouldn't need to be soundproof, would it? Because it's all voluntary unless you don't want the neighbors to hear hey you know what voluntary shit does not need to be soundproof generally that's just a thing you know what i'm saying scream it up we're married we're adults who cares what the fuck anybody says yeah i'd be like yeah fuck her crazy fuck her good that's right that's why she sticks around yeah she told me i had a big dick, too. What? You're not lying.

Don't say that. So, yeah, that's weird. Anytime you find a soundproof room with fucking bondage and torture shit, weird. It's a weird dude. Fucking weird. Sorry. Do whatever you want with shit, but soundproof makes it weird at that point. That's the step.

Yeah. That's the step that puts it beyond that makes it fucked up so uh yeah they they they obviously talk about uh they think now that that they probably killed the dogs also back then so wow uh the reaction to all this people are they're it's weird because they're they're they're not surprised, but they're also kind of perplexed by the whole thing. Like, but why? It just doesn't make sense. They also talk about Diana. They said the weird thing is they said they the family was more thought Diana was the problem, not George.

They were all about Diana. They said the teenage boys, Dwayne and Travis, they said that they had some run-ins with Diana where she asked to turn the music down and they would turn it up. They'd set off fireworks on purpose. They'd ride their four-wheelers on the property and basically try to piss Diana off was their whole thing.

They said, though, but even though Diana had a big temper, the kids all thought george was a nice guy yeah they all liked george which is weird the boys said that that uh george would smile and wave at him when he'd see him outside and shit like that they said they quote considered him a bit of a recluse and a nerd but harmless yeah that wasn't what they they didn't think anything was about ask us if we had a coke today you want good you should drink coke it's good for you just

have at least one or two a day don't worry if you don't have any it'll just show up in your fridge jesus christ so yeah they talked about the permits and all that shit so george on april 5th 1990 is finally arrested more than a year after uh after peggy's dead and everything like that he is uh indicted on one count of first degree murder, six counts of attempted first degree murder. Everybody. Everybody. Cause you could have killed everyone in the house.

They all had thallium. Seven. Yeah. Seven counts of poisoning food or water and one count of tampering with a consumer product. All right. Bad shit. It's 15 counts in all.

It's a lot. They searched also in more shit. They found, they found a Merck index of chemical and drugs, chemicals and drugs they found in his possession here. Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, which contained chemical information on thallium, which it also contained information on every other chemical.

The Fire Protection Guide on Hazardous Materials, which contained a selection on thallium compounds they also sees that also a pamphlet written by trapal called chemistry for the complete idiot practical guide to all chemistry with pictures and index many many chemicals chemical related chemistry related glassware and equipment and the homemade journal described as a quote general poison guide a lot uh also photocopied pages from a book entitled poison detection and human organs one of the photocopied pages included a discussion on thallium the journal was tested for fingerprints and it was found to have georges on it and diana's are nowhere to be found anywhere

on the just his justice is a his private thing that he's into here uh it also contained uh photocopied pages from another book with a section titled death by poison synopsis uh one page from the journal which was read to the jury at court said quote determining whether a person died as a result of natural illness or as or as a result of poisoning is one of the most difficult types of investigation for both the officer and the medical expert. Because you have to look for a specific thing. It's not normal to do. Most people that die like that die of the flu or die of natural causes. 99.999% of the time it's not thallium.

So you can't just test everyone for thallium. And owning this stuff, if I read that, I'd throw it away. And this man has just dozens of things. All photocopies. Everything about it. Some of the photocopies in the journal were made from a library at the Central Piedmont Community College in Charlotte, North Carolina, where he attended the Central Piedmont Community College from 74 to 75. He's had this shit for 15 years.

Wow. So it's crazy. Also, The Pale Horse, which it's a fucking novel. still i mean it's irrelevant that's the grocery store though yeah that's what i mean every anyone could buy that so they test everything they have to test they they test a lot of the he challenges a lot of the coca-cola testing the testing of the bottles uh basically they said they they had to do different they had different samples they tested the samples sent from the car's home including the washings from empty coca-cola bottles to see if there was residue in there they used two instruments here to uh wow let's let's talk about the one i want to know what instruments you use for something

like that i'd like to know uh it's an inductively coupled plasma atomic emission spectrometer which sounds like something you catch ghosts with yeah it sounds like what the ghostbusters used it's a trap you gotta stop you gotta stop and shoot a green thing out and it comes in it essentially uh tests the chemical composition of the air that you know how it works yeah you know yeah and also a graphite furnace atomic absorption spectrometer. You got to have one of those. You have one of those at your house, right? Spectrometer.

So I get. If you don't have one, I'll get you one for Christmas because I have a couple. I use them all the time. So I'll get you one for Christmas. I know. You know what, dude? Not another word. Got you.

Not another word. It's all yours. Also, they test for the certain metals there the they chemically decompose any other ions or elements in association with the metal so they cannot indicate what what compound of thallium was present in the samples the washings from the empty coke bottles were positive for thallium as were urine samples obviously there so then the fbi took it they took three full bottles of coke they sent them to the fbi lab uh there they had an analytical chemist with the elemental analysis unit of the fbi lab

this shit sounds serious uh they're using spectrometers of all different furnace atomic absorption plasma fucking holy shit this is crazy stuff that i'm not qualified to talk about. So I'm just going to read things because I try to understand it. But I mean, I'm trying to get a whole murder case and remember Peggy's name for Christ's sake. I can't also study chemistry in a week. I can't do it. And memorize the names of the equipment. I can't do it. I can't do it all in a week.

I can't. I'm just going to. I'm not. You know, what else do you want from me here? Come on, Jesus. So the empty Coke bottles, they were also there with the washings and everything like that. The washings from the empty Coke bottles contained thaliums in the following amounts. 4.32 milligrams, 3.65, 2.08, and 0.62.

So now the garage sample here, they tested what they found in that brown bottle in his garage. It consisted of 640 milligrams of beige colored, dirty white crystalline material or powder. And they found thallium in the compound there. Now they testify in court to this, all their methodology and all of their how they do their scientific shit which if i'm on a jury and you're explaining atomic fucking blah blah plasma just tell me how it came out yeah because i you don't you could explain till the cows come home how chemistry works and i'm not going to understand now so yeah the court just told me that you're an expert and you know what you're talking about i'm going to take that at face value.

Confirmed? Yeah, you're nice. Confirmed. I don't fucking know what you're doing here. So, yeah. He first tested the bottle, this Martz guy. He says that he performed a, I'm not even going to pronounce that, test on all three samples and got a blue color, which he says indicated the solution contains a nitrate. Yeah.

And he testified. He said, yeah, like he knew that. Yeah, totally. When I'm doing that, it's pregnant. And it also contains a nitrate. So based on the test, I concluded the thallium nitrate was added to the Coca-Cola. So on cross-examination, the guy admitted that he did not 100% exclude the possibility that nitrate he found in the coca-cola

may have come from another source other than thallium that salt that was added but he found nothing else in the coca-cola to indicate anything else was present so you know they're trying to pick you know the holes in the story here obviously uh so they said that the brown bottle with white powder in it from his garage he was asked to identify it and he says the powder uh using infrared and x-ray defractation diffraction sorry xrd uh concluded the brown bottle contained thallium also they said he didn't measure quantitatively the amount of the substance of the bottle but based on the test nothing else was identified so in that whatever that compound was there was plenty of thallium in it is basically what they were saying powder weighed 64 grams uh it's which is a little more than two aspirin tablets or one extra strength tylenol that's a lot it's a lot yeah it's a whole it's a fuckload of poison uh so also they did testing at the

coca-cola corporate laboratory because they don't coke wanted to make sure this shit didn't come from us because that could be bad for business obviously obviously. So they did the same thing. They added thallium compounds to bottles of Coca-Cola to see which would dissolve, basically. They added dissolved thallium malonate, thallium formate, thallium phosphate, and thallium sulfate to the Coca-Cola and recapped the bottle. When they finished, the Coca-Cola and the recap bottle

looked exactly the same as before as they were doing experiments. Later, they did performance tests using thallium nitrate, different forms of it. And one of the forms of thallium nitrate looked normal. The other one didn't dissolve well and gave a brownish, muddy color to the bottom of the thing. It would settle to the bottom, they said. But the beverage looked substantially different, lighter in color. It was just different. It changed the compound of the thing uh it would settle to the bottom they said but the beverage looks substantially different lighter in color it was just different it changed the compound of the coke but the other

ones just looked just dissolved yeah looked perfectly fine uh so yeah there's evidence that the uh and they said there's evidence that these bottles were uncapped and recapped the ones that that that uh peggy drank and everything like that so So a lot of evidence here. The trial comes up. The trial goes from January 7th to February 7th, 91. The state calls more than 70 witnesses. Wow. All the background people, the neighbors talking about different things, and they have to bring in all of these chemists and FBI people

and people from Koch to make sure that the coke people say they investigated didn't come from their end and well there's so much information that you've got to dispute and actually prove and you got to do that with professionals yeah yeah and and george he's got three attorneys private attorneys yeah isn't it on a public defender yeah no they have money she's a doctor yeah he does fine he's a meth you made meth you know he does well they called no witnesses he called none none they relied on evidence that they got during just cross-examination they tried to poke holes yeah and other people shit right that's the way they were going to do this so he's going to make the the he doesn't think the case is strong enough he thinks he's smarter than

them he thinks he's smarter and they all think well this is circumstantial yeah and we can just poke holes in it and it'll be a reasonable doubt yeah they're thinking they can oj this situation and it's not like that it's a little more difficult he's not a beloved national figure unfortunately for that so how many naked gun movies you've been in george yeah let's go hey nordberg oh no you're not nordberg never mind then jesus christ how many yards rushing did you have in 1973 so uh several witnesses also testified about his chemical and chemistry experience that went back for decades old friends he knew and shit like that uh a DEA agent Richard Broughton testified that in the mid 70s he was the uh George was the chemist and mastermind between with a group of people that produce methamphetamine.

David Warren, who was Trapal's partner in the methamphetamine production scheme, testified to his role as a chemist, saying how smart he was and how he knew what to do with chemicals. Yeah, they said that his meth production experience was relevant because thallium nitrate was used in the process that he used it in, basically. And they went over that the p2p process they said is when uh when the p2p is produced this a sediment drops out of the solution that sediment is thallium nitrate the p2p is then used to manufacture amphetamine and the thallium nitrate is disposed of it's a it's a clear it's it's like if you cook it's never mind it goes away fast yeah they're not gonna get into it but that's yeah if you cook certain things that's how it works so uh another witness said that he george kept

chemicals and other chemistry equipment in his garage uh a builder of his calvin adams who did some work for trapal and his wife when they moved into the home in 82 and helped them with the move noticed that one of the items he helped move into the garage was a plastic milk carton filled with chemical bottles he said there was four or five boxes of chemicals and chemical bottles and other chemistry items some of the chemicals were in brown bottles like the one they found the thallium in right uh he also asked he asked this guy said he asked rapal what he was doing with the chemistry items and rapal george replied i'm a chemist i intend to set up a laboratory in the garage. Yeah.

Okay. Meth guy. You almost called him RuPaul. RuPaul says that'd be great. RuPaul. It'd be good if it was RuPaul fucking killing his neighbors and making meth. So, yeah, he said that RuPaul also had an antique bottle capper, which is used to affix the metal caps on the glass bottles.

Right. It's not a common thing for people to have. And George just told him he sometimes made wine for himself and capped the wine bottles. That was his excuse for that. Also, his chemistry collection at the time of his arrest included many what they called exotic and dangerous chemicals. A guy, an analytical chemist for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement said a bunch of the chemicals there. Chemicals included sodium cyanide, barium chloride, cobalt nitrate, potassium ferricyanide, chromium trioxide, platinum oxide, lead chloride, and uranium oxide, all of which are very toxic. Yeah.

Got a bunch of shit. That's a lot of bad stuff. Sounds like a whole bunch of disgusting shit he's gotten there that most people wouldn't have in their place. So the jury, when this is over, he puts up no defense except for cross-examination. They deliberate for six hours. And after six hours, they find him guilty of pretty much everything. It's everything. All 15 counts. Guilty. Most important one, though. First degree murder much everything. It's everything. All 15 counts guilty.

Most important one, though. First degree murder. Yeah. Guilty there. Florida, babe. That's yeah. That's dangerous. You're going down.

They said the prosecutor after the verdict said, quote, Here's a man who thought he was so smart he could literally get away with murder. I think he actually believed because of his intellectual level, he would never be found out. Yeah. Yeah. He thought, yeah, he believes he could beat everybody because they don't know never be found out. Yeah. Yeah. He thought, yeah. He believes he could beat everybody because he's in fucking Mensa.

Yeah. I'm smarter than them. They're all dumb. Right. There's a bunch of rednecks down here. I'm the professional. Yeah. They're a bunch of redneck shit kickers.

What do they know down here? So in the penalty phase, the state calls Dr. Richard Hosler. He's a neurologist who treated Peggy and talks about the pain Peggy experienced from it, including intense burning sensations and losing her fucking speech and, you know, going blind and shit like that. Bad things. Right. And also

they yeah, so also they give his aggravators. He's arrested and convicted of methamphetamine in 75. He's already been in of methamphetamine in 75. He's already been in jail. They do say that he has no other record of criminal convictions, and he doesn't have a history of violent behavior. He also calls no witnesses for mitigation either.

What is he doing? I don't know what he said. I don't need to. The jury comes back after one hour. They vote nine to three to recommend the death penalty for him. Does it have to be unanimous? It does not in Florida back then. So, yeah, nowadays, it's a weird thing.

The Supreme Court has had different things, and they're trying to figure that out. But he says, yeah, the trial court here, that's what they recommend. So now the judge has to do it and he says you sir may fuck off uh death penalty for first degree murder and then concurrent 90 year sentences on all the remaining things so concurrent all the same time but he's got death plus 90 years which is a lot that's a fuckload it's over george yeah it's not good uh it's a lot of fucking death there wow he appeals to the florida supreme court and everything else he said the evidence was insufficient to support a first-degree murder conviction and this florida supreme court affirms his convictions and his death

sentences right away they talked to some jurors after the appeals and the jurors have no doubt about it the ones that put him away one guy's name is mike monin he's one of these jurors he said quote i never doubted that the jury made the right decision he says i was one of the last ones to roll over to me it was his journals that convicted him because they said it was in his handwriting the guy said quote he wrote about it then he did it the man knows way too much about this well he yeah and he says he could do it he literally in his journals there was was a point exactly what he did. He had written out. This is how you do.

This is how you kill people. So they were like, hey, this guy was one of the last ones to roll. He was ready to vote. Not guilty. But those fucking journals, you just don't keep. Yeah. If you just don't keep a detailed, you know, journal of your goddamn crimes, maybe you won't get caught.

So another juror says he thinks about the trial, but he never questions his decision. He says he was guilty. No doubt about it. Another retired elementary school teacher said, quote, I didn't make up my mind until the end when we started deliberating. There's one thing I've never forgotten. When we announced him guilty, he looked at the jury and he smirked.

There were jurors and tears over this and he smirked at us. I just assumed that he was smug about the whole thing and he thought he would get away with it. So that's a weird reaction. That is a weird. Well, you may think so, but I'll get out of it. Exactly. She said the jurors, it was heavier on them than on him. So he's like, what an asshole.

He doesn't even care. So he appeals again in 95, the Supreme Court. That's when they uphold his conviction and sentence. And 97, though, there's an issue. 97, the Federal Office of Inspector General issues a scathing report detailing problems in the FBI's crime lab, citing its handling of evidence specifically in the Trapal case as an example of its shoddy work so now he's got shit to appeal on and uh basically what he appeals on we'll get to that in one second he's in prison there and we'll find out what george does in prison because that's kind of fun georgian georgian prison's fun how does he feel about radios this doesn't belong there any better right a friend

of his name stewart prince says that he spends his days reading and writing letters he says he does a pretty good job of having something to do he's still trying to do still trying to keep a good mind he does lament that there are very few people in his wing who are anywhere near his level of education or intellect yeah it's prison stupid you're in with people who are dumb and get arrested and sent there for stupid shit jesus christ 1996 you can't tell anybody turn on the radio or move out of the fucking cell block move out of the cell block nope uh dr diana divorces him in 1996 she was really standing by him up until then yeah she

also appears in some television you know murder documentary story thing she appears in it in 2000 so that's you can find her on that up to now uh yeah pretty recent anyway so yeah uh george uh says that uh uh you know this prince guy says that prince prince's wife sue are the only people that visit george the only people on his visitation list really no he has no kids yeah that's a good point there's only two people that give a shit two people and they're friends of his that don't have to give a shit prince is also in mensa and he said he meant he met george through the group a few years before this whole thing happened uh there he uh he lives in a six foot by nine foot cell with no air

conditioning in florida and he eats his meals in there in that shitty little room that now stinks like prison food showers every other day he can go to the exercise yard twice a week for three hours at a time but he never always declines to go he never goes because you get beat up out there yeah he also says the state allows him to have a 13 inch television in his cell which he had to buy uh himself inmates't get cable, so it's whatever you get. He's a big reader. He says that this guy says he sends books to George all the time, and you have to do it from online booksellers.

You can't send it, obviously. Approved ones. Well, yeah, you can't send them shit. It has to be from the company that sends it to him. That makes sense. Yeah, you can't hide things in it. He says he gets books through the prison library system. He says that George still professes his innocence and uh he says he holds no animosity though to people

who sent him to prison the prince says quote he's a nice guy and he didn't do the crime uh why would he there's no reason for him to kill those neighbors he was moving away so why kill neighbors just before he leaves it makes no sense it makes much more sense for someone else to do this crime that he described and has all the shit to do and i don't know it kind of sends a message that you know uh i'm not to be fucked with yeah i feel like that's what it was he put up with shit for that long and he was like i'm gonna kill them right before i leave right to say ha got you motherfucker also it looks like he would do it yeah i feel like it's a mic drop moment for him like yeah i got him i couldn't move away and let them think they won. Right. Like, they drove me out of here.

Right. I'll kill him first. Looks like I can get away with it if I run. It gives me an out. Fucking crazy. So, 2011's the next appeal. This has to do with the FBI lab shit, okay? Shoddy work had an impact on 3,000 cases.

But, basically what they do is, basically they say the main crux of it was there's a when they tested it for thallium the liquid's supposed to turn blue okay and they they said in court that the smarts guy testified in court that when they tested it the liquid turned blue we knew it was thallium what he he failed to mention, though, is that there are other chemicals that also make the liquid blue. Meth? I don't know what it was. But whatever the chemicals are, just different chemicals that are non-toxic, some of this,

some of that, they also will make a blue reaction. Got it. It's not just the thallium. So that was a big deal that they tried to make out of this. So this appeal is all about this shit. Was basically all the lab work a problem you know and that's enough to overturn his case uh here uh so this is going on and for years he's building this appeal from 97 when that report comes out to 2011 they're building this

appeal up right uh uh now duane duane dubberly right one of the boys there uh he says he wishes every day that his mother could know uh that he's had a good life there uh and all this type of shit pie car uh says he's ready to witness the uh it's ready to witness george get killed here oh he wants to see it oh he wants to see it he says quote i still want to be there when he's executed but i don't have anything to say to him i don't think I could control myself if I was to talk to him. No shit. Killed your wife and tried to kill your kids and you. Tried to kill all of you.

Grandkid. Everything else. So they said that they are convinced of his guilt, but that Stuart Prince guy, he says he's innocent. George is innocent. He says, quote, George is not the sort of person that would do that. I've never known him to. Jesus Christ. I've never known him to jesus christ i've never known him to

be anything approaching violent a few years ago someone beat him up in the exercise yard and he just stood there he just took it he just got his ass kicked maybe he's just a pussy yeah i was gonna say it sounds like he's just a pussy that sounds also like he didn't have thallium on him i was gonna say also uh his profile is doesn't do well with direct confrontation so he'll then go poison that guy that's how it works now Sherry Goric the Sherry she goes Sherry Gwin not Goric Goric is a real last name there

she ended up writing a book with a guy named Jeffrey Good who's with the St. Petersburg Times and it's called Poison Mind about this whole thing so if you want to read about that but they they go into that whole thing and the court says even with the faulty,

even if those labs didn't exist, we know that he had some thallium because that was a definite. Maybe it was different. Whatever. The rest of it's still enough to convict him and sentence him to death. He had journals.

And they're hanging onto it. They had that shit. Fucking appeal denied. Regardless of the fucking shit. They were like, that's just like a cherry on top, all the lab work. We didn't even need that to convict you. Because none of the jurors were like, it was that lab work. They said it was him writing that he fucking wanted to do it.

So they didn't even need it. We'll take that out. And you're still fucked. You're still fucked. 2013, he is trying to go to the united states supreme court because when the florida state supreme court denied his habeas appeal on that he only had the supreme court to go to and that was it and they denied him oh they put it on the docket in 2012 and was officially denied in 2013 they say we conclude he is not entitled to relief

uh legally translated that means eat dicks basically from legal to layman terms here thallium if you want or eat some thallium either one but yeah that's how it is and uh he remains on death row awaiting execution i guess the normal time, usually it is, I believe, 13.7 years is the average time somebody spends on death row. 12.7 years is the average time people spend awaiting execution in Florida. And he passed that a long time ago. Oh, okay, so you're going to include that stuff as well.

Well, Christ, he's been on death row, yeah, since 1991. 18 years, right. Oh, wait, 91? 91, 28 years he's been on death row. Wow. There are people there that have been there even longer. There's people that have been there since the 70s, still going through all this shit.

Yeah, so. But his is done and over. Oh, his is done. They're just waiting on the chemicals to be approved. Yeah, they're waiting. Who knows? I'm sure it's Florida. There's a long line.

He's got a number. So every time, I guess every time once his appeal denies, he probably goes back to the end of the line again. That's probably how it works. And especially with the Supreme Court thing.

And now he goes to the end of the line. So maybe they'll kill this guy someday. I don't know. They should just, they should say, your last meal,

here's a Coke. And then just walk out of the room. Have a sip. Yeah. He just got you one Coke. He's got to be in his 60s, right? Yeah, yeah.

He's born in 1949. Oh, Jesus. He's 70. He's pushing 70 one Coke. He's got to be in his 60s, right? Yeah, yeah. He's born in 1949. Oh, Jesus. He's 70. He's pushing 70. Wow. He's 70 now, this year, right? Yeah. 50 and, yeah.

That's right. He's 70. Yeah. 70 right now. Right now, he's 70 years old, so they're going to execute an old man. Probably not. Well, maybe he'll die there. Either way, he's going to fucking die.

Yep. And I'm not upset about it. Me neither. It's all good that's a that's like a fucking nightmare and a real absolute nightmare that that could possibly even happen it's fucking crazy yeah it's never it's it's more than a nightmare it's it's next level insanity unfathomable that your neighbor could just do that to your whole family your whole fucking family so but they do and. And they did. And that's what happened. So that's they don't get away with it.

No. Well, let's hope not. Yeah. So that is that. That is goddamn. All Jesus Christ. All Taurus, Florida. Arsenic, Florida.

Arsenic, Florida. And the Trapal's and poor, poor Peggy Carr. Wow. Pie and Peggy Carr. Poor things. Poor things. So, yeah, they they that's that for them. So, Jesus Christ, if you like that show and you want George to die, you can tell us about it.

Get on Apple Podcasts and give us five stars. It doesn't matter what you say. Say you're following instructions, following directions. It doesn't matter to us. We'll take whatever you got. But please do that. Get on there. It helps us out tremendously also go to shut up and give me murder.com for everything small town murder and

crime and sports related don't forget crime and sports you do not have to like sports listen to that and uh check it out also follow us on social media because you can get our tickets to this shows we're going to announce all our cities here in a second. Yeah. The tickets there. Social media, I'm sorry. It is at Small Town Pod on Facebook, at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Murder on Instagram. And we are coming to so many cities this year. Oh, my goodness. Here's the list.

This is not going to give dates. This is just all the cities. No discernible order. No discernible order. Denver, Salt Lake City, San Francisco, Detroit, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Louisville. to give dates this is just all the cities no discernible order denver salt lake city san francisco detroit cincinnati indianapolis louisville holy shit going to kentucky going to louisville hey that's a hundred thompson and muhammad oh yeah fuck yeah good shit there nashville of course you guys know about in april austin uh texas coming back there oklahoma. Boston and New York coming back.

Of course, we love Boston and New York. Atlanta. New Orleans we're going to this year. That's new. Seattle and Portland coming back to the Pacific Northwest. San Jose and Sacramento. Sacramento, we told you we'd come back to you, goddammit. Coming to see you guys there.

St. Louis, Kansas City. We got San Diego, an L.A. show. Washington, D.C. Philly, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. We're doing four Texas cities. Do you understand that? That is way too many Texas cities. Minneapolis. Of course, Chicago.

We have to come back to Cleveland. We're coming back to Cleveland. God smells like damn it. Exhaust jizz. And we're coming back anyway. That's how great the crowd is there. And we love you guys. That is going to be at the Comedy Club, though, so get your tickets quickly on that one.

Columbus, we're back in Pittsburgh, of course. Coming back to Milwaukee, even though we're not even there yet. Not yet. We're going to fly right now. Tonight. Madison, of course, also. Wisconsin up there. I think I said St. Louis and Kansas City.

Yes. Again, St. Louis will be a different venue. I promise you that. Absolutely. And that's going to be our list. And also Tampa and Orlando. Yes. And no discernible order there. We'll tell you all the dates, but that's a shitload of shows. Those are all happening from January to December.

February to December. Well, yeah, January to. I don't think there's anything in January. Nothing in January. They start in February. They go on from there. All of 2020 the time so we cannot wait we're coming all over the place watch out for that it's gonna be gross watch your toes so uh yeah thank you guys for doing all that and if you want to uh so yeah follow on social media get those because there's going to be a pre-sale and you get a code and all that so you can get your tickets ahead of time yes i'm telling you some of those comedy club ones it will be so fast they sell out in a fucking day that st louis show sold out in two hours i think

it was an hour or some crazy shit it was gone the fastest show is ever sold at that at the pittsburgh improv yeah that's how awesome you guys are literally the fastest anyone's ever sold anything at the pittsburgh improv thank you thank you for that that was amazing you guys make us uh look good at these places and that matters to us yeah they invite us back but also it the crowd being as polite as as as possible you guys are just fucking amazing you buy tickets you show up and you are on your best behavior so thank you for all of that uh we really can't thank you enough if you want to become one of our producers who we're going to talk about in just a moment, because goddammit are they important

and we love them, you can do that very easily by going to patreon.com slash crimeandsports or you head over to PayPal, use our email address crimeandsports at gmail.com. Every cent is appreciated and we put out a bonus every other week on Small Town Murder as well for the $5 and above Patreon

level and all that good stuff. So you can get on there. And we'll throw in different bonuses here and there and do it up like that. Keep it different, a little variety. Yeah, that being said, Jimmy, I need the names of these people. You need to sprinkle them over me

like a dose of Valium, please. Thank you. This week's executive producers are Tonya Volanek, Jordan Bennett, Ariana Light, Jacqueline Hall, who donated both ways. Thank you so much week's executive producers are Tanya Volanek, Jordan Bennett, Ariana Light, Jacqueline Hall, who donated both ways. Thank you so much, Jacqueline. Nick Beardsley, Luis Flores, Christina Hansen, Jeremiah Bueller, and Ellie Kamek. Thank you guys for everything.

What you guys do for us is intense. Incredible. We can't thank you enough. Thank you. That's what I have there. We can't thank you enough, Thank you. That's what I have there. We can't thank you enough, but thank you. But thank you. Other producers this week are James Snow, Chris McLeod, Ali Payne, Thomas Smith, Cara

Barcroft, John with no last name, Deborah Pinto, Ronnie Kumar, Matthew Mitchell, John Lash, Billy Szyzynski, Alexis Blind, Blind Bauer? No. Blind Hour, I think. Or Blindor? I don't know. Joseph Larson, RC Bodies by Jake, Beverly Henkel, Johnny Johansson, oh, Sonny Johansson,

Kimberly Radisky, Laura Burton, Ashley Veo, Melanie Kelly, Cody Owens, Jesse Hartman, Rachel Morgan, Ash Loveday, James Martyr, Patrick Sanders, yes. Yeah. Sabrina Chavez, Daniel Perry, and Aaron Rulker, Lauren Day, Katie or Kate, K-A-Y-T-E, could be either or, Ward Palmer, Will Slattery, Jasmine Sneed, Alex Warner, Robin Throckmorton, Liz Vasquez, and I'm so sorry, Liz. I'm so bummed that somebody took advantage of you. I hope that gets resolved.

I didn't follow up. She can't. It didn't get resolved at all? The bank's sending her PayPal. PayPal's sending her to the banks. Sorry. I'm so sorry. She's so cool, too.

We're very sorry. That sucks. Don't fuck each other over, please. If they tweet to us that there are tickets available, we will retweet them, and that's, I guess, our best vetting. That's all we can do. That's all we can do. We can't do anything about it otherwise. But if somebody just offers you tickets, just don't.

Don't do that. I don't even know. I'm so bummed about that. That makes me really, really angry. Nicole Rodney? Rooney. Rodney or Rooney? I don't know which that is.

Andrew Jones, Bryce Law, Lauren Botha. Probably not Francis or Francois. No, probably not. The guy who Tyson beat up? Probably not. Jacob Schrag, Robin Anderson, Lucy Holland, Evie Schaefer, Peyton Meadows, Sandy Roberts, Joely, Joely Nicole, Jude Kendall, Kate Newton newton mackenzie west tracy no that's trey vulcanar uh ryan ashton aston ashton ashton i think yes uh mary sullivan stephen rude jason

with no last name gamble with no last name 107 dildos uh benji benji young kitty anderson uh Young Kitty Anderson, Talisha Welker, Kylie Miller, Dan Lamb Ham. No, Dan Lan Ham. I think that's a real name. Yeah, I think so. I hope so. Reagan Shalkley, Brandon, no, Brad. Brad Zermetta. Karen Kruger, Steve Schnell.

Steve, thanks. Steve. Andrew Vipond, Katie Peterson, Sinfully Delightful Clean Eating, Tanya Johnson, no, Penny, Penny Keir, Amy Piniella, probably not Lou's daughter. Let's hope so. Joe McCrary, Molly McCarthy, Jason Borghetti, Jill Lohan, Lohan, is that Lohan? Is Lindsay's mom named Jill? No.

Hey, you know what? We have a lot of famous siblings and kids today. R. Finch. Candice Williams. Mark Davis. D.D. Carter. Hayden. The ex-Padres reliever, Mark Davis.

Excellent. Probably. Lori Ziegler. Probably not Dolph's wife. Probably not. See, there's so many this week. Jennifer K karschner k spearman uh probably not lorenzo was it lorenzo spearman i think so i think that's right alonzo spellman yeah that's it yeah all right whatever chelsea kravitz probably not lenny's or chris spielman chris spielman that was the name and lenny kravitz's daughter carly pallet palm palmero no palmer palmatere hey okay all right

i'll stop it now chris hoffman probably not dennis probably not probably not dustin's brandy hildebrand Jennifer Friend Oliver McKenzie Sean McKinley Dave Torok says the bottom line is life I don't know what that means but it's Matt

Sischoff Jacqueline D Thomas O'Connell Daria Tumar Robert Larson, Diana Michalski, Rio McCarthy, not sure, Jeff Thompson, Jennifer McGrath, Katie Fee, Tian Marsh, Casey Jones, probably not. Probably not. Tian Marsh, Casey Jones, probably not. Amelia, Lindsay Bird, Jasmine Griffin, Christina Sherry, Jacqueline, no, Raquel, Raquel Quintero,

Rachel Jobe, Tay Lamel, Adam King's brother-in-law had a birthday. And I don't, he didn't steven sorry but his brother made us those rings out of quarters yeah those are awesome yeah and adam introduced himself to me in minnesota as uh that's my brother-in-law i fuck his sister oh let's see i remember this is my favorite way of anybody's ever going. Eric P., probably not your brother. Thomas Spade, Amber Legg, Casey Crow, and all of our patrons. You guys are the best. Thank you guys so much for everything. Really, we just appreciate the shit out of you guys. And we cannot wait to see you at these live shows next year.

This weekend is our last couple for this year. And we take two months off. And then we're back out there again. So thank you for everything this year that you've done. Everybody that's come to a show and bought a ticket, stayed to hang out and talk to us, or just sat there and watched it. Thank you guys so much for all of that. Really, we appreciate it.

And what if somebody appreciated you, Jimmy? How could they find you? You can find me at Wismansucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. What about you? You can find me at JimmyPIsFunny, or you just copy and paste my name from the show description and find me that way, and it doesn't matter. Don't try to spell it yourself.

That's just going to cause headaches. It's silly. It's silly. But with that said, everybody, you know what? It's been fun. We're getting toward the holidays here. We have to get on a plane to Milwaukee right now. So until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.