Small Town Murder - #150 - A Betrayal Of Hearts & Knives in Rome, Georgia

Episode Date: December 19, 2019

This week, in Rome, Georgia, a picturesque, all-American couple find each other in high school, then get married, start a family, and live happily... until things aren't so happy, anymore. Too much church, not enough romance, and a secret affair all lead to the the downfall of a marriage, and ultimately, one of the most brutal, but clumsy murders possible. From there, we learn that some people never learn!! Along the way, we find out that every "mushroom festival" might not be what you think it is, that maybe there should be a maturity test before marriage, and that when you leave every piece of evidence possible for the cops to find, you probably have to plead guilty!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts#150 See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Rome, Georgia, a picturesque all-American couple gets married, starts a family, and lives happily until someone ends up dead. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i am jimmy wisman thank you folks so much for joining us again on another wild adventure that we like to call small town murder i hope you enjoyed last week with poor ruth and uh goodness that the the most probably the most karma we've had in an episode we've had like you know death penalty and people feel they've gotten vengeance but that was one where it was especially weirdly oddly satisfying for some reason swift justice very very odd listen to that episode if you didn't last week at a stillwater new New York. Super weird. But this episode, another crazy. This is the essence of small town murder right here.

We're going to talk about this week and we will get to that first. Want to thank everybody for everything you've done for us this week, especially your reviews on the purple icon, Apple podcasts. That helps us out a lot. We don't know why, but it helps drive us up the charts. So if you haven't done it yet, get on there. Give us five stars. You can say anything you want. Just say you're following instructions or these guys made

me i'm tied in a closet it doesn't matter what you say it's all good it works just the same the five stars help a lot on the business end like i said we don't know why but thank you for that it's a thing that's a thing also go to shut up and give me murder.com for all of your small town murder and crime and sports needs. And if you have, this is a perfect week to listen to crime and sports. If you haven't, there is fantastic, literally zero sports and lots of murder.

So much scum. It's a, it's a creepy one. So this is a perfect week to listen to crime and sports. If you, if you were wanting to give that a shot, do that. Also, you can get all your merch and everything like that and tickets to the tour

for 2020 guys. Thank you so much. Since we talked to you last week, things are selling like crazy. Incredibly. The first weekend of the tour, Salt Lake City, Denver sold out already. You guys sold it out.

Can't wait. They wanted to do a second show in Salt Lake City, but we couldn't do it because we have another commitment so that we couldn't make it for the Sunday show. So we're going to do those and then we're going to be in Indy in Louisville in February. We're coming to Kentucky and Indianapolis. What the fuck? In the winter. Right. So we're going to do those. And then we're going to be in Indy and Louisville in February. We're coming to Kentucky and Indianapolis.

What the fuck? In the winter. Right. So you know what? Reward us by buying tickets to that. Coming out. Yeah. Do that also.

Portland. The first show sold out in Portland like immediately. So they added a second show the next night. So there's a second show in Portland. It's almost done too. You better hurry up and get those. That's the thing. Other shows in May.

Boston. Boston is low. They just did a low ticket warning at the Wilbur, which is a huge place. It's enormous. It's just about sold out. So that blows me away. So if you want to see us in Boston, go there. Also, New York, you want to get those tickets quickly.

Almost gone also. And Sacramento also, low ticket warning they put out today. So do that. The first few months of the tour are already almost gone. You guys, if you're going to go and they're available, fucking get them. Sacramento is in August, too. So, I mean, later dates are going quickly, too. So, get those tickets.

Pittsburgh and Chicago and Minneapolis. We're looking at you guys, too. Milwaukee, get those tickets. They're going to go fast. So, thank you guys for doing that so much. Honestly, we can't thank you enough. And we're excited to come to all these places. We really are.

We had a great time this year. And it's going to be even better next year. We have new ideas for craziness for the live shows, and maybe we're going to try to maybe mix a prisoner dating game in at the end of the show. You know what I mean? It's going to be fun. Make it spicy, James. It's going to be fun.

We'll put it that way. But never mind all that. Let's get to the disclaimer so we can tell a wild story, our holiday story. Oh. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Here's some dead people. Enjoy. Let's get to the disclaimer so we can tell a wild story. Our holiday story. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Here's some dead people. Enjoy.

Let's get to it right now. The disclaimer, it's a comedy show. We're comedians. This is a comedy podcast. The stories are real. Everything is real. Everything we're going to tell you is completely real. We don't make things up for comedic effect or to help the story out or anything like that.

It's all real. It's just we make fun of things we make fun of uh small towns sure maybe a bumbling police force if they don't you know catch a murderer that where there's evidence sitting right in front of them or we'll make fun of a murderer because you know why not we can't do anything else about it they deserve it they deserve it exactly deserve more than that we we'll give them ridicule yeah and that'll that'll teach them at minimum at minimum so you know we do all that well we do not do we try to go out of our way to not do is we try not to make fun of the victim or the victim's family why would we do that because we're assholes but we're not scumbags that's how that works so if that sounds good to you we're gonna have a blast if you think true crime and comedy should never go together

murder and comedy are no good. Dateline's wonderful. Things like that are great. But maybe you don't like this. That's what they're saying. You should give us a chance. You should. But if you're not going to like it, then we don't want to hear any complaining afterwards.

It's just a bad first date. Have a good one. Enjoy. But for the rest of you, I want to have a good time. I want to hear a crazy story. I think it's time to sit back and shout, Shut up and give me murder! Let's do this, Jimmy. Let's go on a trip, shall we? All right.

We're coming from the north. We were damn near in Canada last week. Freezing. And still water up by Albany, New York. Way up there. Now we're going to go the opposite, way down south. Way down south. There we go.

We are going to Rome, Georgia. Yeah. Oh, boy. Hell yeah. Here we go. Rome, Georgia to Rome, Georgia. Yeah. Oh, boy. Hell yeah. Here we go. Rome, Georgia. Now, Rome is slightly larger than our normal by a few thousand people, but it doesn't matter because the story's crazy.

Right. And Rome is a very, it's kind of your all-American small town type of thing. Yeah. The way it is, it fits, trust me, for everything here. Rome, Georgia. Here, not Italy. No. I think they just did that to trick you. Sure. We everything here. Rome, Georgia. Here, not Italy. No. I think they just did that to trick you.

Sure. We're going to Rome, kids. Where's the Colosseum? This doesn't look good. Goddamn Colosseum's here. No, the Parthenon. Build a mutt hut. There you go.

Enjoy. Enjoy here. It's in northwestern Georgia. Up there, it's like northwest of Atlanta, out in that region of... We're getting towards some ruralness out there, boy. What else is up there. It's like northwest of Atlanta out in that region of... We're getting towards some ruralness out there, boy. What else is up there? Nothing. Trees, clan, I don't know.

I don't know what's up there, honestly. Is Marietta up that way? I think it's up there, yeah, north of there. I can see that. Not north of here, but I think it's like east of this area. This is like northwestern, kind of up in the corner, sort of here. but I think it's east of this area. Got it. This is like northwestern, kind of up in the corner. Okay. Sort of here. It's in Floyd County.

Yeah. Just a guy named Floyd. Oh, yeah. This is his county, so watch your ass. My God. Floyd's going to get you. It's about an hour and ten minutes to Atlanta. If you want to go someplace better, if you need to get your sanity.

Yeah, we like Atlanta. We'll be at the Buckhead Theater this year as well. Back again. We love that theater. The place is so good to us. It's an awesome theater. They're nice to our listeners, too. They're so nice.

It's really good. They go out of their way for you. You know what I'm saying? They do. They do. They're excellent people. They know how to treat people coming in from out of town. We'll put it that way.

Good, good people there. They have good connections for people. For foods and such. Yeah, for things like that. For ingestibles. You know how it works works so it's about an hour and 15 minutes to chattanooga if you want to i don't know if that's better or not it's yeah it doesn't sound better chattanooga so uh it's about two hours and 20 minutes to

eatonton georgia yeah which is the last georgia episode we did back episode 111 oh my word this is episode 150 by the way right this is a milestone it's a big deal this is a we don't celebrate our shit ever that's the thing so we'll hit like it'll be like 100 episode 100 of either one of our shows and it'll be halfway through the episode where we're like oh yeah by the way it's episode 100 we just we just plow through and we do shows that's that's that's it we want to keep doing good shows we don't really care to celebrate it numbers don't matter numbers don't fucking matter. It doesn't matter.

So 150, though. Let's celebrate that. Numbers matter. With this. With this. Today it does. And only today. Right.

After this, it's back to normal. Zip code 30149. Area code 706 and 762. One area code. Cannot hold the Romans. No. The Romans are coming. Then you get one for Floyd.

Floyd has his own. Yeah. He's a 706 is floyd i'm seven of the rest of y'all gonna have 762 what's your phone number 706 oh floyd how are you doing floyd 763 that's 764 for all i give a shit but he ain't getting 706 tell you what right now uh 31 square miles it's a big area there's some like you know forest and uh kind of park areas where it's you know people walk in the like you know forest and uh kind of park areas where it's you know people walk in the look in the forest got it you know shit like that uh town

motto uh it's it's abrasive they're they're embracing what they have and being abrasive with it it's uh motto is ha fooled you italy as far as fuck so it really is i mean it's it's factual yeah it's honest so yeah you got to give them that. Once you're there, I guess, they figure you're going to stop and at least get a hamburger or something. Where are you going to go? Where are you going to go at this point? Where are you going to go? Are you going to drive all the way to Atlanta? No, you're here already.

So, history of this place. In the 1700s, there's a lot of history with Native Americans here, obviously. This was Cherokee land initially, obviously here and different. They had several national Cherokee leaders settled here and had plantations, which you wouldn't think of. Really? Yeah.

You wouldn't think of a slave plantations. I mean, I don't think they were out there themselves. They had their kids out there probably doing it. We're talking 1700s here. So this was Major Ridge and John Ross were the chiefs, which don't sound like chief names for Cherokee, really. I think somebody's bullshitting. Yeah. Who knows? I don't know their history, so who knows?

But here they have the Chieftain's House, which is kind of a museum now. It's preserved. Right. It was, I think uh uh major it's major ridge's house it's like a replica of that shit now uh the 18th century this is when 1700s this is when white people and the natives were getting along for a minute yeah because there was a huge european demand for uh for american deer skin really yeah deer skin and deer belts in europe oh they wanted these deer skins that was a fashion at deer skin and deer pelts in Europe.

Oh. They wanted these deer skins. That was a fashion at the time, and they wanted those. And so the Native Americans were the best at getting them. We can certainly serve those out. They knew where the deer were and who had to hunt them down there, so that was when the white traders would hook up with them and they started. Commerce makes relationships, oddly. Oh, you can make me money?

That's weird. Let's be friends. It's so strange but if people are making people are making money together they usually tend to be friends tend to high five each unless they're in like a band and then obviously they have to ruin it and fight for no reason that's what's great about comedians yeah we're different me and jimmy people ask us you guys get in fights no not really not usually it's because we're not idiots no we're not like on heroin right and like you know fucking drunk and like having orgies with each other's wives so when you don't do that you just don't fight and you go isn't it cool that we're doing well together yes let's keep

doing that hey do you want to pay your rent still me too isn't it awesome yeah not like i don't give a fuck i don't care i'm fucking make a solo album of just Caribbean music. It's just going to be me, and it'll be acoustic. I know I'm a metal guitarist, but we'll do acoustic Caribbean music. Me and my rum are going to yo-ho-ho you around. It's going to be so good. So, yeah, so some white traders settled here and, you know kind of fit into the fabric because they were buying deer skins like crazy and later on then of course the missionaries came oh boy because

they're gonna any anywhere there's an opening yeah they're gonna say lots of bodies gotta be somebody to tell god about so we're gonna go there and then more settlers came there and that's what you have that's what happens though you though. You let one white person in. Even if it's just to sell some deer skins or open a cupcake shop in a current thing, eventually it's going to be the whole Duggar family is going to be running around your neighborhood just everywhere. And that's what happened to the Native Americans here. But, yeah, a lot more people obviously came after the Revolution. It became a little bit more of a place.

And in 1793, there was a Cherokee raid into Tennessee. And then the governor of Tennessee led a retaliatory raid against the Cherokee here. It was the Battle of Hightower. It's kind of northern Georgia in that area. So they talk about that. This was John Sevier was the uh was the governor of tennessee leading a raid uh now in 1802 this is kind of how things fell apart first it was fine we're all going to trade skins and shit by 1793 they're raiding back and forth and stuff like

that and then by 1802 georgia made a deal basically which georgia was like if you take georgia the state of georgia and head west with it to the mississippi river that was all georgia was like if you take georgia the state of georgia and head west with it to the mississippi river that was all georgia the whole thing the whole thing so until you got to where it was french territory after that to the river so that west on the on that same parallel you know northern latitude or line of latitude there that that was georgia so georgia made a deal to get rid of all that western shit and have an Alabama and a Mississippi. Yeah. And you can have Mississippi.

Yeah. And they're like, they're going to take Mississippi. They're taking it. They're fucking taking it. No, you can have. You said they want it. It's in really good shape. No, the odometer hasn't been touched.

They're going to fucking take it. Can you believe this? Oh, my God. The odometer doesn't. Shh, don't say it. Shut up. Shh. No, I know.

I know. I know. I know. It's a piece of shit. Don't say shots. Don't say it. I know. It's a swamp. I'm saying shush. I know, I know, I know. Don't say shucks. Don't say it. It's a swamp. I know. It's fucking weird.

They're going to take it. It's fine. So that's what happened here. They said they make a deal with the U.S. government where you can have all this land if all you have to do is get rid of every fucking Cherokee here. Oh. Take them out of Georgia. Yeah.

Just strip them of their homeland that's the deal the government was like fucking done and done really we could use that land shit how hard could that be that's all it takes pretty much but it wasn't immediately enforced the eviction uh edict here wasn't immediately enforced there was uh federal lawsuits to stop removals and shit like that you You know, we had formed a government by that point. But by about 1834, or the early 1830s, is when they started removing them on the Trail of Tears. You may have heard of. I have.

I don't know if you know whose idea this was. No. Andrew Jackson. Is that his? That was Andrew Jackson. He's a dick. Yeah. So anytime you form a Trail of Tears, that's probably bad. If you know anything about it? That was Andrew Jackson. He's a dick. Yeah. So anytime you form a trail of tears, that's probably bad.

If you know anything about it, it was very bad. Yeah. So not a good thing here. So that made like, now it's like, oh, now we can stretch out. Yeah. I got rid of them. That was kind of one of those things. I want to really rethink my words from now on.

Yeah. So Rome became the county seat. It used to be in Livingston. Now it's in Rome here. So now it became a little bit more. Now it became like the cotton economy came in in the 1800s as the main thing. The cotton gin coming in in the late 1700s made the whole thing more profitable, basically. So then cotton became a huge deal.

more profitable basically so then cotton became a huge deal and uh much of northern georgia they it's a very strange ironic and uh pretty shitty name to call it it's called the black belt which is bad it just doesn't sound right does it no no that's good it was named for its fertile soil black soil okay so fertile i was trying to tie bruce lee in there so yeah yeah it's karate slavery farming it all ties in somehow was bruce lee a karate slave farmer is that what happened what's going on here just fuck man so uh yeah so that brought in obviously more slaves and then things well didn't bring in more they brought in more so it wasn't like oh that's the sounds like things are great there. Can't wait. That's not what happened.

Nobody came voluntarily for this. Oh, there's work. That was never said. So, yeah, the Rome economy, though, continues to get bigger and bigger. In 1849, then the railroad came through, which kind of came through from the Gulf of Mexico all the way up into the rest of the United States. And once there's a railroad happening, then shit starts going on, as we've seen here. In the 1920s, late 1920s, think about when that is, what's going on in the world in the late 1920s.

Fascism is becoming more popular, especially in Italy, where there's a guy named Benito Mussolini, who is very fascist and in charge of shit over there. And a company in the United States built a rayon plant, like the clothes, the material, in the late 1920s in a joint project with an Italian company. Which is basically, it was a fascist state, so all the Italian companies were in with the government. So you were basically making a deal with a fascist state so all the italian companies were in with the government so you were basically making a deal with a with a you know with the fascist government at that point uh so the city of so much so that the city of rome and georgia was honored by italy in 1929 as this wonderful city that you know was named after our capital you know whatever they admire us yeah the mussolini himself uh was sent a replica statue of the romulus and remus nursing from a mother wolf which is the symbol of the founding myth of the original rome yeah now if you haven't seen this statue it's very it's hard okay um

how do i explain it it looks like it's supposed to be a wolf but it looks like a dr seuss drawn character of some kind mixed with like a I don't even know. It's like a weird abstract looking wolf that looks super surprised, has a very surprised look on his face, on her face, I should say, which is warranted when you see what else is in the statue, which is two naked baby children nursing the teats of these of this wolf the babies are complete with baby dicks and nutsacks hanging down the one kid's like squatting and his dick and nutsack is just hanging down this isn't a gag gift this is not a gag gift this is a real thing and what does rome do they put it outside the courthouse they put put this disgusting pornographic thing. I'm not for censorship at all. I don't care. There's statues everywhere.

Baby dicks just feel wrong, though. That does seem strange. I feel like that's the thing. That's not pornographic. That's just a baby dick. Put that away. You know what I mean? I don't want to see that baby dick.

Put a little cloth diaper on that fucker. I don't know. This is weird. It's a child. It gets the point across just plenty with a baby with a fucking cloth diaper on it that's plenty the point is that it's suckling from a confused what is it it's a wolf oh very supposed to be very confused wolf but i i mean you could have just made it kind of a nebulous nothingness just with like a clump that you didn't have to like it's really it's really a dick and balls man both of them

have it too but it's very obvious it's there's like wrinkles in the nut sack it's it's it's fucking like someone really spent some time with a fine tool on that they said making the nuts are better and they were like i'm trying to make the nuts as nice as i can they're arguing with each other wrinkles are too small you know they're very with each other yeah now it's too small you know they're very spent a lot of time on it but not so much time on the wolf's face so get a dimple in the dickhead for us it's the weirdest shit follow us at murder small on on twitter at small town pod on facebook at small town murder on Facebook, at smalltownmurder on Instagram. Well, definitely one of the pictures we'll post for this episode will be that picture.

The baby dick. I don't even know. Are we allowed to post that? I don't know. It's sitting outside an American city's courthouse right now, so I think so. It's so weird. The picture, too. You look at it and you go, that can't be Rome, Georgia. And then you see a fucking U.S. Postal Service

mailbox right behind you. You're like, oh, my God. This is wow. This is so weird. You got to walk past that to argue your traffic citation. That's what I mean. There's baby dicks outside. You're going to judge me.

This whole court's out of order. Baby dicks are out of order. You will not judge me. Prosecuting anybody for kiddie porn. You got it right out front. The presence of fucking public baby dick so in 1940 though by then anti-italian sentiment had built up a lot we weren't very popular here in 1940 well we were kind of at war with italy at the time unless you're gonna do some of that mining for us yeah exactly then we. Hey, we grease them up. We put them down the hall. So take the pasta out of your pockets.

So during World War II, 1940, there was so much anti-Italian sentiment that the Rome City Commission moved the statue into storage to prevent vandalism. I don't know how you could vandalize it anymore. Sounds vandalized as fuck. They're going to make the baby dicks bigger. How much more are you going to vandalize? Somebody glued a dildo to the baby. No.

It's pretty fucked up already. So they moved it into storage and replaced it with just an American flag sitting there. And then by 1952, they realized that we weren't so bad and they really like our food. And they were like, put those baby dicks back out. They brought it back. Yeah, it's back out there now. It sits out there now today. If you go to Rome, Georgia, enjoy the baby dicks.

That's so weird. I guess. I don't know. Notable people. They brought it back. Yes. You know, we need to bring the baby dicks back, please. Oh, that's great.

That had to take like an act of like a town council having a meeting. Go, I think it's time. It's time. We need to free up some storage space you know what i do with that you know what i miss every time we come to work i don't see any baby dicks i before i used to see two every day now i see zero you see what i mean it's you've put out the light yeah for me you've snuffed out my candle how am i supposed to get through this day i know it's my coffee i got two cups of coffee

two baby days and i used to know on the way out i could see that before i go home that's how i know i'm going home that's how i know i'm going home ah the baby dicks now uh notable people from this town coach dan reeves oh yeah most notably of the broncos is for jimmy there also the falcons and other people and very successful giant he's a terrible Giants head coach. He's from Georgia. God awful. He's from Rome, Georgia, as a matter of fact. You ever hear him talk?

Yeah, that's true. John Elway, you know, he's going to be starting this week. That's it. I think Dan Reeves, too, is from, I'm pretty sure his family is deep into football. I haven't, there's a Dan Reeves that owned like owned football teams and shit in the 30s and 40s probably and i think that it's so intertwined i think it's probably his family to be involved and to be a head coach of a yeah well he was a great player dan reeves too he played for the cowboys he's a really good player yeah did i not know that i don't know

i may have just learned that yeah dan reeves is a good player like he's a kicker he's a little i think he's a tight end i want to say. He's not even that big. No, no. That's fascinating. Back then, you could be... Look at Mike Ditka. Does he look like a professional football player? He looks kind of stocky, but he doesn't look like he's going to run around and catch things. No.

And run from people. No. It doesn't look like it. That's fascinating that Dan's from there. Yeah. And then he coached the Falcons at the Super Bowl. That's what I mean. He must have felt great.

It must have been a big deal to them. They must have felt good about that. Right up until they lost. And then it wasn't so great anymore. Not Super Bowl. That's what I mean. He must have been a big deal to them. He must have felt good about that. Right up until they lost. And then it wasn't so great anymore. Not so good. Especially to his old team. Right. It's like, fuck.

I touted him. I went for years with him. He lost every time. Every time. It's like three times. He kept fucking losing. I can't believe we made it to the Super Bowl as many times as he lost during the regular season. He kept losing them.

And then we make it it and then he loses. And then I come here and then he wins? Yeah, knockout. That's what it is. I gotta come home for this? For this? Right.

I'm a hometown hero. I don't have to worry about getting whacked on the street. I gotta come home for this? I walked past Baby Dicks for this. I saw two of them. Now also, the blues singer,

Ma Rainey, who's known as the mother of blues, she is from here. And Double A Arne Anderson, the wrestler,, Ma Rainey, who's known as the mother of blues, she is from here. And Double A Arne Anderson, the wrestler, is from here as well. Great. Rome, Georgia. So it's funny.

We did this for a live show a couple of times, and people absolutely went nuts for Arne. Everywhere we went, people, woo, and they're going crazy. Everywhere we go, people, they really love wrestlers. Yeah, if there's any sort of wrestler reference in the story and we show a picture, they go, I bet you it. People, doesn't matter, age, region, it's super weird. The last time that guy got a cheer for anything, how long ago? You know what I mean?

Yeah, that's a while. So people in this town, 36,029. So it's a little, I mean, we usually, 30 is our usual cutoff, but we'll go to push into the 30s if it's good. It's up 19% since 1992. So while this was going on, it was in the ballpark of where we were. Median age is a little lower, about 35. A few more females than males.

More kids under the age of 10 than normal, and more people over the age of 80 than normal. Good grief. So that means that people stay fertile longer in Georgia. Yes, they do. That's what that is. They're just having little children in the 70s. So fertile. 80 than normal good grief so that means that people stay fertile longer in georgia yes they do that's what that is they're just having little children in the 70s that's fertile that's that's the that's true now uh the married population's a little lower than normal about 45 percent which is a lot of kids and a lot of old people so you're going to get less people being married as far as that goes a few more widowed people than normal, which makes sense with the age. More divorced people

than normal as well. And even more single with no children. 15% here. So get down. There's some partying happening. Race to this town, one of the more diverse towns we've done, actually. Race 53% white, which is as low as we've gotten here, I think, probably.

In the ballpark, it's usually about 61%. 27% black, it's about twice a little over twice the average three percent asian still under that but it's the south i don't know how many asians are in the south good point maybe a lot but you don't think about asians in the south i know a guy from this town that's fascinating from rome georgia an asian yeah no no okay well you said it right after that everyone went went, Jimmy knows an Asian from Rome. Oh, wait. No, he's not Asian. He's a black guy. He's from the military.

He's got a giant beard. He looks very Southern. He looks very, very strong and scary. And angry. Yeah. Because he's been in the military. So he's got the scowl. He fucking retired from the military.

Oh, yeah. That's a. Yeah. But he's the sweetest man. Very funny. But the face doesn't look like it. fucking retired from the military oh yeah that's a that's a yeah but he's the sweetest man very funny yeah it's just the but the face doesn't look like it it's a military lifetime right scallop uh about 15 percent hispanic which is close to the average here uh 64 percent religious though there is a shitload of religious people that's way over the average 39 percent baptist

holy hellfire and brimstone we do know that baptists are the catholics of the south as we know uh it's only about five percent catholic here a few methodists and pentecostals in here with their snakes and shit yeah yeah you know point grab bag of christian it is 0.01 jew jewish here so there's not a lot of Jewish people down here. 0.0% Muslim. It's pretty Baptist. Let's just put it that way. In Floyd County, which is a pretty rural county out here, last election, 26% Democrat, 69% Republican, 4% Independent.

Unemployment rate's a little bit higher than the rest of the country, but it's still under 5%. So that's still low. Median household income is also low, though. The rest of the country, it's about $57,500. Here, it's about $37,500. That's no good. It's a little bit low. 20% of the people make under $15,000 a year.

Holy shit. That's too many. And 38% of the people make under $30 a year oh my god that's yeah it's it's they can't even afford walmart that's it's a it's a rural kind of a poor area when you get into these you know yeah out way out in the in the middle of nowhere that's the county that's broke it's pretty broke yeah it's there's some there's some broke people uh i assume here more manufacturing jobs than normal, that seems. And more health care jobs.

There's kids and old people. So what do they need is the doctor more than constantly the goddamn doctor. The flu will kill them. Both of them. And also like food services, that sort of shit's a little bit more. Because it's kind of a touristy town. It's got like this old-timey feel. Come see the baby days.

Hey, Rome. Huh? I fooled you. So cost of living is a hundred is average regular here it's 87 so it's pretty close but the housing is low it's a 62 okay so that's not bad median home cost here 124 600 still no still well yeah 15 grand a year well i mean maybe you can and if you can we have for you the rome georgia real estate report all right your average two-bedroom rental here is about 770 a month so that's that's

low and kind of in with the average here i found a four- two bath 1572 square foot house it is a fucking dump it is just a goddamn dump it's on 2.2 acres and it's just this little shitty looking house sitting in the middle of it i don't know i don't know how there's four bedrooms and it doesn't look like it the real estate listing says quote try your hand in this value play that's not no try your hand is it's not a you know it's not a carnival game where i could win a deaf leopard mirror don't make real estate a gamble it's no uh 90 grand for this little slice of heaven i found a two bedroom one bath 1338 000 square foot uh it is a it's scary it says it, fix her up or locate her in a nice, quiet area. Because everyone died, it looks like.

It's awful. $25,000, though. $25,000, you can own a house. Yeah, you should knock it down and build another one. But you own a piece of something. I found a four-bedroom, four-bath, 4,000-square-foot house. This is very nice. It's beautiful.

It's kind of a brand-new thing. It's like a modern farmhouse-looking thing 789 900 bucks how about that you're gonna pay for it that's the thing anywhere from 25 grand to damn near a million that's it and there's more too it goes up from there there's some there's some more expensive houses here too it's it's there's some halves here you know as far as that goes uh things to do. I found I got excited about this. I found the 2019 Georgia Mushroom Festival. Fuck. Yeah.

Party down. Rural Georgia. I was like, this is going to be awesome. Sweet. And then I looked it up and it's just old men fucking picking mushrooms in the forest. No, like showing them to each other and comparing them. Not coming out of a horse shit or anything. No, they talk about like genome. Oh, you oh they give a shit it's like yeah it's really

boring it's like people who are super into like creating good mushrooms they want to know the dna of a portobello yeah dude it's it's yeah this shiitake here is by the way the word shiitake is shit take you shouldn't have that never in a food word never shit take so yeah it's really weird here come and listen to our listen to our amazing speakers participate in mushroom and wild edible plant hikes in the park that's what we're dealing with heel here things like that a guy we have uh alan rockefeller is going to teach and lecture workshops on dna sequencing and microscopy that's really want to know yeah it's 30 for this thing it's for the that uh whatever that is lecture also a one-hour program mushrooms of georgia they're

gonna have there it's it's pretty dull it's in depth i would eat mushrooms before you go to the mushroom festival if i were you if you're going to be exciting that That'd be fun. Spice it up a little bit. You're like, wow, this fucking DNA sequencing is awesome. It's just moving on me, man. Property or crime in this town, what we're interested in. Property crime is almost double the national average,

so they will steal your shit here. Somebody will. I don't know who, but there's other mushrooms around there, apparently. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And violent crime, even. Murder, rape, robbery, and assault.

The Mount Rushmore of crime. Also, almost double. Dangerous as fuck. Yeah, it looks quaint from the outside, but there's some danger inside Rome, George. That's what happens when people are broke. You build an economy and things turn around. You know what I mean? People, when they're happy, they don't commit crimes.

Is there deer skins to be traded? Jesus. Can we work this out? Honestly. Let's high-five each other and go into business and work back then. Yeah, that's what I mean. If it's successful, everyone will stay. Yeah.

Have their shit together. So let's talk about a murder. Okay. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced.

She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot,

and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal,

or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California,

Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one

and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. What do you say? Sounds like there's a shitload of them.

There is. And we found a small-town murder-y type one here. It's such a quaint story. It's so... This is one of those things, and we've said it a lot in the past, but this is John Cougar mellencamp followed these people around with a fucking notebook pad and just going all right okay i'm just like all right that's um that's that's my my second album done just from these two hands between his knees it's what it was here well let's talk about a young lady here young lady named michelle uh she was born in 1969 oh uh down in the south here in georgia

and she grew up here and kind of outside of rome and uh very conservative in this it's still conservative in this area and i don't mean just like politically i mean in terms of it's a church and it's it's a conservative area it's not just a there's no like uh there's no gay district right in rural georgia where it's just like it's party time here you know that's that's not that's not a thing right by the way we were when we were in chicago uh her sam you know we were with sarah and her cousin lives there and she has an apartment in uh boy's town there which is the gay district next to wrigleyville which is where we were staying and we went to her house or it went to her apartment, and Sarah's father said,

you walked all the way to there? He's like, that's a dangerous neighborhood. And he hasn't been there in a while because he lives out here for the last 20 years. And she's like, I don't think it's dangerous anymore. The crosswalk was a rainbow. She's like, I just, it didn't feel dangerous. Maybe when you were here, you could get raped in the ass.

Now the only way you're getting it is if you ask for it. Now it's going to be voluntary. You're going to dance for a while first it's probably going to be fun up until that right up until the point of it it's probably you're probably going to have a great time it's way different well at least by your drink super different yeah so it's none of that really is happening in rural georgia so it's it's conservative and michelle is a little blonde georgia kid yeah she is she is yes that's how you would think of her she's uh very always in the front of all the pictures and the family pictures and she's very much uh outgoing and fun going center of the party that's the thing and everybody says and even if even if there's problems like her

mom and dad get divorced and it never really seems to affect her very much she doesn't she doesn't you know change doesn't take the sparkle out of her at all she seems to be fine with it and is still just as happy and uh you know she's always posing for pictures as a kid and shit like that uh her parents did split up like i said when she's you know a young girl you know elementary school age and then when she's 13, her father dies. Oh, Jesus. Which is rough. I mean, that's terrible for any kid to lose any parent at 13.

But I think for a girl to lose her father, that's a tough one at 13. I can't imagine. It's like a boy losing their mom at 13. It's just a different thing. That would have devastated me for sure. Yeah, well, absolutely. Especially for you, that would have been rough. That's the only one I got.

What was I going to say? I don't know. That's that, then, absolutely. It's especially for you. That would have been rough. That's the only one I got. What was I going to say? I don't know. That's that then, I guess. Well, I guess my life's over because no dad. Fuck. All right. Well, I guess I'll get a job now. So that's the story of Jimmy.

He's been working at the electric company ever since. 13 years old. I was telling a friend the other day about how I met my dad when I was 28. And I was like, you know what? I met him at my wedding. And I was like, oh, my God, you were at my wedding. I was like, the day you met my dad, me too. Yeah.

We knew him just as well. We know my dad the same amount of time. The same amount of time. Isn't that cool? And then he looked at me and his face went like white. And he was like, I don't know how you do it. I don't know how you. How do.

What? And then he had all kinds of questions about how do you even become a man when you when you don't have like a dad to figure it out. Yeah. Nature takes it takes. It's it just happens. I mean, yeah, you become whatever you are. There's a whole lot of tugging.

Yeah. Become a man. Become a woman. You become whatever the hell. I'll figure it out. You'll figure it out. I had to. Yeah.

No choice. That's how that's all. Yeah. What are you going to do? What are you still going to have like a beanie on your head? Right your head riding a huffy around in a circle in the drive i just never picked it up i don't know how to dad i'm sorry never had him just i can't even ride this bicycle i just love training wheels on it my mom just totally incompetent apparently she never she couldn't do anything he's like a super meathead and loves cars and sports and all that shit and

he's just like i don't know how you how you're into this stuff when you didn't have your dad to bond with you over i'm like you're really opening wounds you yeah thanks i want to talk a little more about it christ almighty believe me i've been going to therapists trying to tackle this shit well at least he was alive and he didn't die when you were 13 so there's that so there's that her mom though is now a single mom michelle is the youngest too that's the other. She's got two older brothers. She's the baby and the only girl. And her dad died. So, I mean, she is very much looked over and doted on and pampered.

She has two new dads because her brother is going to be that one. Everyone's going to look out for her. I mean, she's the baby anyway. If there's two siblings of whatever sex and then a baby of the opposite sex that's going to be you know they're a new thing and they're the baby so they're really going to be something special and so that she's very much taken care of they are huge into the baptist church i mean it is baptist time good lord every day uh it's that was that's the moral foundation and everything they go to church all the time one of those like well it's that was that's the moral foundation and everything they go to church

all the time one of those like well it's wednesday so obviously we'll go to church and then we'll you know well it's thursday so i mean there's the church obviously and one of those things so uh yes she grew up with that she always she grew up as she grows up she's very very pretty michelle as well everyone thinks she's very pretty and she's you know that's that's her thing she's smart she's pretty she's outgoing she seems to be like oh she's gonna be successful and you know she just seemed to have something there uh you know everybody said that she was like you know the prettiest girl in every class and shit like that whatever you know so uh she she went out with a bunch of dudes you know just teenage

stuff and it's georgia and you know you go boyfriend you go dance with this guy and go dates and stuff and it's they're baptists so it's not like you know she's not going out and going to like big drinking parties and shit like that she's she's going out she's going to the movies yeah she's going like a proper date with somebody who had to like meet her mom first and shit like somebody brought flowers for this yeah she with somebody who had to like meet her mom first and shit like that. Somebody brought flowers for this shit. Yeah, a guy had to meet the pastor first

to make sure he was with God. So, you know. That's a tough one there. That'd be a tough sell. He's likely already been vetted through the church before he shows up

to the door. That's what I assume. I assume they were probably set up through the church. This is really just an arranged marriage. The pastor called the mom, your daughter's got a date tonight. She's really just an arranged marriage. The pastor called them up.

Your daughter's got a date tonight. She's got a date tonight. He's a fine young man. Strapping. He's 44 years old, so that's a problem. But that's all right. That's all right. He's young at heart.

Ask him about Leviticus. He'll tell you all. And I think they'll get along, too, because his daughter's about 19, so I think she'd be a good influence. Yeah. So I don't know why we made that pastor just an open pedophile but he is welcome that's what it is so she goes out different guys never really has a steady boyfriend though just has fun and talks to people hangs out with different people

you know she's having a healthy teenage no need to get that involved no no need to be 14 years old with a with a you know yeah somebody that is always a bad thing when you see remember those couples in high school that were like you're in the ninth grade and they've been together for like three years and you're like what the fuck is going on the worst is when they get married after high school you know for sure oh yeah that shit's ending soon yeah and it always does it's funny too yeah it's it's really weird it doesn't happen anymore they stay together forever. No, and I knew a guy in high school.

You know him, too, actually. I knew a guy in high school who went out with a girl all through high school, went out with the same fucking girl all through high school. And I remember after high school, I always wondered, I wonder if they got married or shit. He's married to somebody else now, so apparently not. Didn't work out. But he was with this girl all through high school.

It was fascinating to me. It was fascinating. It year old my good god they're like a married couple it's so weird my grandparents did that shit they dated all that was normal and they got married and they've been together for 50 years good for you more than 50 years that was a normal thing to do back in the day somehow today no jesus you would discourage you could go meet other people it's just the first person you've met in science class don't even fuck her just move along see what are you doing you don't want it don't hang out with the same person you met in high school you clear when you get out of high school clear the decks forget everything you've ever find like three people that you liked a lot that you got along with that maybe helped each other through

get through high school you can talk to those people for like seven more years and then you won't have any interest in them anymore either but hang on to them for like seven more years everybody else yeah gone get rid of them fire hose and sweep it off the deck bleach your life that's it bleach your life like an asshole do it up so she ends up finding So she ends up finding someone that she does take a special liking to here. In high school. In high school. Now, she's a cheerleader. Okay.

And yeah, she's a cheerleader. And so she is obviously at the football games. Yeah. And one night, she really finds a guy on the football team that catches her fancy here. And yes, he's number 15 on the field. Yeah. And she's like, that's my guy right there number 15 i like the way he moves uh-huh his name is thad hell yeah so jack and diane thad and michelle yeah i feel like he's like here's a little story oh did he same syllable about thad and yeah thad nobody's named thad michelle that sounds stupid jack jack all right

jack's stronger all right jack and mish i miss you i don't like the muck it's a kind of a i want a heart die there we go all right now we're in it i feel like this is literally what happened jack and if i need an extra syllable i can throw a jackie in there that's what i mean well you can't say fatty fatty nobody says that shit fattiest then you'd have to throw syllable. Now it's fucked up my whole rhyme scheme. It's all wrong. So, yeah, he wrote this. It's ridiculous.

So they're cheerleader and football player and whatever. This is some. Wide receiver, 15. Who knows in high school. He could be anything. He could be a nose tackle and be 15 in high school. They don't give a shit. So, yeah, he's also a wrestler.

He's on the wrestling team. He's an all-around athlete. And he's also, he's kind of different than the other athletes, though, because Michelle likes him because he's not just like a dumb jock. Oh?

He actually is also in the drama club. Oh. Which in the South, in the football playing thing in the 80s, like, it wasn't cool to be, they probably made fun of him. Yeah. You know, they're probably like... Big City Phoenix, you they were probably made fun of him yeah you know they're probably big city phoenix you would have gotten made fun of that's what i mean so in the end in

the early 80s too i mean he probably got made fun of and he was like you know how many girls are in that and they were like oh oh yeah oh you are playing the odds sir that is brilliant he's knee deep in poontang i don't understand it but i ain't dancing so never mind that damn that's smart he's smart so he's in school plays uh there's ones like there's a picture of him dancing in a school play and shit so that's what i mean like he's right he's well rounded more than the other kids in school in rome georgia in 1985 yeah so that's kind of what attracts her to him is that and uh she starts seeing michelle and uh they are like you you know, the couple. Everybody's like, oh, they're the top couple of everybody.

Everybody, you know, they call everyone, everyone. They didn't even call them Thad and Michelle. They called them Ken and Barbie. Gross. That's it. They're Ken and Barbie. Yeah. It's fucking ridiculous.

Imagine being a Ken and Barbie couple. That's just super weird. I want nothing to do with it. Yeah. So he's very average looking. Although. She's blonde. That's just super weird. I want nothing to do with it. Yeah. So he's very average looking. Although. She's blonde. That's all that means.

Something about it makes me very excited to know that a lot of people like me. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then the other part of me is like, no, I don't want that. No. Yeah. Then they want to do things together. That's the thing.

And they're going to, yeah, this sounds exhausting. Yeah. To be popular to this level. Oh my God. To everybody. Not just to your group of friends yeah like a whole swath of people like jesus christ right i do what now oh boy you want to introduce me to who i know enough people that's enough i'm fucking yeah i love that that's uh i want to say that to people all the time when people are like i introduced you you like this guy it's like i'm good i got enough i got plenty do you know how many people i know? I could name six.

I could name you a lot of people. I could just name a list of people that I've met. And it's a lot. So I think I'm good. So he's a little more. She's not real redneck. That's the thing. No, she's more like trying to be a big city girl.

Not even a big city girl. But she's just kind of raised like not real redneck. just more uh churchy okay and he's a little bit more you know he's just a kind of a southern guy he's kind of rednecky down there we'll put it this way their first date he took her to a tractor pull hell yeah in atlanta with his family that's my kind of guy so yeah they're going down she doesn't like him i'll fuck him that's what i mean first date that sounds great this is fantastic yeah this is great tractor pull and If she doesn't like him, I'll fuck him. That's what I mean. First date. That sounds great. This is fantastic. Hell yeah. This is great.

Tractor pull. And Jimmy's like, I've been watching this on ESPN after school. Oh my God. It's great. Just me. Oh, I used to love it. They cancel it. They're like, we only got one person watching this shit.

Everybody watched it. You got out of school in the 80s, late 80s. It was goddamn, it was shitty wrestling. Right. It was like an AWA or world-class wrestling and then a tractor pull slash monster truck event either one one of those two you'd get and the monster truck shit was fine too and that was like all right i'll take it and then it was usa network that showed it too right was it usa or probably yeah it was a vh1 i can't i don't think it was it was probably usa that sounds

right because they were really desperate for programming in the 80s yes because usa had uh the the fucking uh the american truck usa one was that the truck it was bigfoot there was bigfoot and usa was the white one that was like yeah they like raced against each other yeah but there's a little bit of rivalry and then there was gravedigger was a cool one right and that was the one that everybody was like ah fuck those two trucks yeah this is a big ass suburban this is bad look badass and then yeah it had the it was all deathy and shit. Right, right.

It was a truck that you were like, that truck is worth money. I can't believe they jacked it up and put that big old motor in it. It's bad ass, yeah. And they're going to crash it. It was the, you know what? USA had wrestling too. So wherever there was wrestling on TV, that's where the, because it's the same. Monster trucks and truck pulls.

Yeah, that's what it was. I think Gravedigger's the Jake the Snake Roberts of trucks. I think you're right. Right? Yeah, feels like it. The alternate side guy. Yeah. He's what it was. I think Gravedigger's the Jake the Snake Roberts of trucks. I think you're right. Right? Yeah. He was like the alternate side guy. Yeah. He's not going to win the title.

Right. But everyone's going to love him. He's going to be a cool motherfucker. And Bigfoot was like the Hulk Hogan. Yeah, yeah. He's the total Hulk Hogan. And then USA1 was like the Roddy Roddy. He's like, or yeah, whatever, whoever his rival was at the time.

Yeah. And Andre the Giant, King Kong, Bundy, through the years, whoever you want, a macho man, whoever you want to plug into here. God, I miss it. And then they went and fucking made it stupid with like, pick up trucks

dressed like dogs. Fuck you. Stop it. Yeah, none of that. Grave Digger is the shit. So awesome. Jimmy's so excited right now. God, it was so fucking cool.

He's so intense right now. He rarely, he rarely likes something this much. You have to understand. Oh, monster trucks are the shit. Oh, my God. Grave Digger, you're so cool. So, yeah, they're at a tractor pull.

She liked Thad so much that the idea was they're going to the tractor pull with his family, and then they go back to his house to have dinner, all of them. She was so nervous to sit down and have dinner with everybody that she threw up. She was so nervous. Maybe it was all the tractor pull fumes. And it was a lot of fumes that she took in. And who knows what they ate there. Carbon monoxide poisoning, that's all. A bad hot dog, too.

Who knows? Those aren't even dirty water dogs. They're just like fried to a crisp on a grill. Yeah, that's it. Or a shopping cart that they turned into a grill. Y'all want two? Two? All right.

Two. I don't know why two. Gross. But she said, though, good time. Now, that was, they go out for about two more months now. So this is late 1985 into 1986. And then,

we remember the date very clearly, and you'll know why in a moment here. He asked her to go steady. Be my girl. To wear his class ring hell yeah so that's where we're at right now motherfucker well the rural south is a few years behind the rest let's be i if you live in the rural south don't get pissed off when you go somewhere else you'll be like oh man it's like the future like five years in the future here i don't

know what it is it is because if you come from somewhere else and you go to like the rural south you go it's a couple years we're just it's almost there we're getting there 2016 do you we're getting there it's a few years so this is the hill figure is still cool here i think it probably is yeah oh yeah that's what they're all wearing still wearing that so yeah so this is that's okay this is an old-fashioned thing like by the time we were in somebody gave we gave anybody a classroom. I don't even know anyone who had a classroom. That was my next thought. I never had a classroom.

Johnston's showed up on campus and people were like, what? Why? I remember they had to give you a catalog. What the fuck is that going to do? I'm not paying you money to say I went to this stupid school. You want how much? Yeah, to say I went here? What?

Why would I brag about going here? Oh, boy, no. They forced me to go here. I didn't get in. It's high school. I had to come here. Oh, my God. That sounds terrible.

I'm going to put that on my fucking finger? No, I don't think so. So he, though, gave her the class ring. Still a big deal. Now, we know the date of this for a very specific reason. It's the morning of January the 28th, 1986. Doesn't sound like anything. But if you Google search January 28th, 1986, you like anything now but if you if you google search january 28th 1986 you'll

find an event that happened uh 10 minutes after that they go steady he slips the ring on her finger yeah and then they go yeah that's nice oh this is good i feel good about this they're like hey that space shuttle's taking off they're gonna show you want to go watch the space shuttle take off and they're like oh that sounds good and then they walked in yeah literally 10 minutes after they did the class ring thing and watch the fucking challenger explode which he should have said you know give me that ring back i think it's just i'll take i'm gonna slip that off your finger and we're just gonna pretend this never happened shake hands and go your own separate ways right this is just doom right before your finger grows around that thing let me go ahead and have that back i feel like any anything any marriage or any commitment that's made and then

within 10 minutes a huge national tragedy happens it's you just say that we're gonna win all the last 10 minutes of everything that just happened let's not consider this a celebration a business deal or anything like that we're gonna sweep it under the rug those are not fireworks those are dead astronauts give Give that back. Not meant to be. Which, if you're from another country and you don't know what we're talking about, January 28th, 1986, a space shuttle was going to space with a full crew of astronauts and a teacher. And a not astronaut. And a not astronaut.

A teacher who they made a big deal about that this was a big historic thing. And if you were in school at that time, as Jimmy and I both were, they would wheel a television into your classroom and gather all the kids and make you watch it so you'd feel good. So we all sat there being little kids. Look at how great our country is. We're putting people in space. Plus, it's just neat to see all that fire when you're like six years old. The smoke.

Smoke and fire. It's going into space like fucking Luke Skywalker. This is amazing. You know what I mean? This is the coolest in the fucking world. And we're all like, whoa, cool. Was that supposed to happen? And then you just see a teacher quickly wheel the TV out of the room and try to get their shit together and explain to 30 children that, oh, yeah, no, they're all, I'm sure it'll be fine.

That was hard to tell the kids. Because there was kids saying, like, they were on fire. Like, it exploded, though. In every movie, once someone explodes, they're dead. Like, shit like that. And the teacher's like, well, I mean, we don't know. They have safety mechanisms. And they're like, but there was a fireball.

We're six going going and that was like the closest close up ever on a rocket ship going up it was a tight shot so tight like oh this is fucking majestic and then just poof huh fuck dude there was like a flash and then just bang

that shit was traumatic as a child it was just like whoa everybody's dead like we as a kid that was was. It was just like, whoa, everybody's dead. Like, as a kid, that was the first. At six, you didn't see live death. No. That was the first live death I ever fucking saw that I knew, like, that did not end well. Period. That sounds terrible.

That was awful. You could hear the eyeballs look around the room. Oh. Anybody get it? No, all the kids, you just heard a collective jaw drop. Right. And then you heard just wheels of a cart going out because the teacher was just like oh god

it took her about three seconds to see it register go oh my god all the kids are looking and then just she didn't even unplug the TV she just wheeled it and the plug pulled out of the wall as she was fucking pushing the cart away she didn't even bother to unplug it she just started

pushing oh Jesus get that out of sight oh god here we go she was fucking pushing the cart away she didn't even bother to unplug it she just started pushing oh jesus get that out of sight oh god here we go gone so uh that's how that happened so that's a that could be an omen here is what we're getting at here so uh things are you know going well besides the challenger here they they go to the prom together they go to a homecoming and uh uh the homecoming and she's the homecoming queen and everything like that this was when they first started going together they were homecoming king and queen they go to prom uh she was very excited being homecoming queen oh i'm sure of of pepperel high she was jack i can't relate to any of this shit except for the the tractor pulls i'm into that

shit but the rest of them they were watching gravedigger, but outside of that... This life must be fantastic. Yeah. She said she told all her friends it was such an honor because the whole school votes, so she thought it was neat that everybody liked her and that sort of thing. They graduate that year, 1986, these two. And within two months, as a matter of fact, on August the 15th, they pick August the 15th. Why, Jimmy? That's his football number.

Oh, Jesus. I thought there was going to be another tragedy it's much worse august 15th they decide that's the day they're going to get married two months out of high school haven't even been together for a year and they're so immature that they're going to choose his high school football number as some sort of meaningful thing that they should get married terrible idea so yeah this whole thing is ill-advised that's the the worst. Their parents should go, how about you go to college for a couple years

and if you still like each other, and you know, four years, get married. What date are you picking and why? You're not ready. No money from us. Yeah, you're not ready for this. Do it on your own because this shit's going to fail.

Yeah, they have a big wedding at the Hollywood Baptist Church, which isn't in Rome. It's out kind of in the middle of nowhere. No, not LA. Not LA, yeah. It's the Hollywood, first of all, the term Hollywood Baptist Church, which isn't in Rome. It's out in the middle of nowhere. No, not LA. Not LA, yeah. First of all, the term Hollywood Baptist Church is funny. It is.

It's just like... A godless city. It's the Japanese Catholic Church. I'm sure there's Japanese Catholics, but you don't think of those two things together. No. You wouldn't think of just a lot of... It's not normally your first thought.

But that's where they get married, and that church is going to come back a lot of it's not normally your your the first thought so but they get so they get married and that church is going to come back a lot because that's where they they're going to really have it's going to be a big part of their lives here so she's excited she wanted to get married right away she liked that because that is a stable hard-working guy too that's not a crazy guy he's not a party guy he's not one of these guys that is a no no that's a studious kind of guy he's a you know gets good grades to play football but you know he's not like a cutting up and going out and and he's handsome and he's he's a handsome guy yeah i mean i don't know he's i'm assuming they're calling him ken yeah that's what i mean so he's got dark hair and he's you know he's not disfigured or anything so i guess that can be considered handsome yeah that's at any

point you know that. Normal looking dude. But I mean, she looks at him as stable and she even tells her friends, like she notices that she's attracted to that. Her dad died when she's 13. Her parents were divorced. So she's looking for like, she wants somebody stable. Yeah. And she even recognizes like the psychology behind that, you know, obviously. So she's excited.

She wants to be a married woman. She's excited about it. They get married woman she's excited about it they get married right away uh they they want they get their own place which i mean imagine that oh boy first of all they've been like backseat of car fucking right and like their teenage rome georgia baptist sex like it must have been really difficult i mean besides because it was in the butt because you know because that's where it goes. That's where they're going. But besides that, it was still difficult just to go.

But now they're living together and married. Licensed to fuck at will. There's jizz everywhere. And people are going, Jesus wants them to fuck as much as they want right there. It's like Lord approved now to just get their own place. Yeah. Multiply. Be fruitful.

So that's what's happening here. They enjoyed it. And like I said, he's a very reliable guy, gets a job right away, and can try to support them. It goes well. Now, he's also very religious like her, also very Baptist. So that helps a lot. The Baptist church is where they go all the time. That's their spot.

And he works at a grocery store. And they said he'll come to work when he's sick. He comes to work when he has extra days, works overtime. Well, that's a bad idea. You're around my food? Yeah, that's what I mean. So if you were sick in Rome, Georgia, in the Rome, Georgia area around 1986. Maybe because of him.

It might have been. And you shopped where he worked. It's possible. were sick in rome georgia in the rome georgia area at around 1986 maybe because of him it might have been and you shopped where he worked it's possible but like he would always looking for extra hours and just trying to make money for the for the young couple and that sort of shit here they had goals they wanted to achieve together okay uh very specific goals three of them okay this was before they had children because they wanted to have a big family obviously but they wanted to accomplish a couple of things first and that was number one buy a house yeah i don't know if these are in a particular order or not this this is just i think random order here okay buy a house yep they wanted to go on a cruise okay okay i guess to get that hey we got to do this and now we have kids in a car like on a boat

yeah i don't think they were just cruising around want to cruise down main street i don't know they feel like tractor pulls they want to go on a ship here so they're going to want to go on a cruise and they want to buy a camcorder that seems easy that seems attainable certainly gettable i mean it's expensive in the late 80s but still attainable you may want to get that one first to document and prove that you got a house and you went on a crew look at us on the cruise right yeah you have that footage so they do that how shitty would it be if you buy the house go on the cruise and then you're like fuck where's ah we can't even show anybody this this is terrible fuck then you get the camcorder you're like well i've already done everything that's worth documenting damn it so they do

everything though they get all in a couple years within a it so they do everything though they get all in a couple years within a couple years they buy a house they get a camcorder they go on a cruise yeah so they're ready to start trying to have a family okay it's about by like 19 late 1988 so they've been married about two years in two years they accomplished their goals so i mean this is a very great how mature is that at 20 they're 20 yeah and they've bought a house got on a cruise and now they're ready to start a family and they're they're not accidentally starting a family they're making a decision right to we're going to have children i'm gonna leave it in you on purpose they're 20 right think about that that's bananas think about the no wow they're just i mean he's

making like third they're together making like 33 year old people decisions yeah right now i was 28 and accidentally did them you're like oh god terrified and everything houses yeah oh god oh shit this is terrible this is no good no so uh they start trying to have children and they do have a child it works yeah after a little while here march of 1991 after about two years of trying to have kids on and off here uh they end up having a little while here march of 1991 after about two years of trying to have kids on and off here uh they end up having a little girl uh named olivia great so that's that's looks picturesque from the outside it worked it looks like it's working right now yeah i mean this is you know everybody thought it's gonna work john cougar mellencamp's a big smile on his face with

a platinum album he's got a fucking uh camcorder filming the birth of a daughter. This is great. That's how it is, man. So everything looks great, but they're not exactly thrilled and happy with each other. Like a lot of couples who meet in high school and then get married two months later. It's not perfect. You may love each other then, but you're about to turn into entirely different that's the thing and you can still love each other but you might not be compatible to be

a couple anymore after a while so who knows 20 years ago chicks were into in sync in high school how many of those women still listen to that shit today sadly all of them sadly when they tour those women yeah but they go no no dude they do these tours with like you know a couple of you know the non-justin timberlake and sync members and the people who you know need the money and then you know a couple of patrick and the fat guy whichever the backstreet boys is still alive and they cobble that shit together and they do a tour and it is just fucking 40 yearyear-old women grooving. Fucking adjusting their knee braces and grooving.

Not giving a shit. They're loving that shit. It's packed. It's fucking packed. But they don't listen to that shit driving down the street. They'll go watch it and reminisce. But they're not. You know what I mean.

They're entirely different. Yeah, they do. They're going to be a different person except for in sync except for in sync i feel like she was just rocking duran duran for the fucking duration the tubes yeah she just i don't care what year it was she's just her name was rio and she's fucking doing it i know it she's got hungry like the wolf is on. She doesn't give a shit. But she's a little unhappy, and it's because she feels like Thad is not as concentrated on her as he should be.

I think about her upbringing. She's been doted on quite a bit, and she feels like Thad, he's working a lot. He's got a lot of time wrapped in other shit. He's working. He's going to the church a lot. He's doing shit like that. And she says it doesn feel like he she's the center of his of his life like she should be she talks to her pastor that's not the right guy that's probably wrong you talk to that or or anyone else with the pastor yeah she talks to the pastor and says that i see that

you the pastor you put your wife on a pedestal and i don't feel like that does that for me so i'm kind of unhappy maybe tell him well uh she tells him in a way yeah i mean she's trying to get the pastor to tell that hey yeah i treat my wife try that shit at home kiss her ass yeah it doesn't work at least lick it well her way yeah i mean you could hold her over for a little while anyway i don't know you didn't hear from me you didn't hear from me pal that's all i'm gonna say that's all i'm gonna say about it didn't hear it from me didn't hear it from me right it's george you know he's a little give it a shot give it a go didn't say i did it yeah i'm just saying it's a it's a it's a thing that could happen you could do that so right next door boy give it a i mean give it a go it could almost be an accident a couple times and see if you like it and then if you like it, both of y'all are in one.

You know what I'm saying? Die right in there. Put on a snorkel and have yourself a day. You know what I'm saying? Just work it out. It's a damn good idea. So she does tell him about it eventually, but in a strange way, not in a traditional way. She tells him by filing for divorce.

Oh, no. Instead. So this is 1993. Think about that. There's still fucking, you know, kids know kids they're still kids they're still in their 20s like 24 25 years old with the kids and divorce and it's it's rough so they had i mean it's kind of one of those things they one of them says that there they fight about he says that she thinks he says he thinks she was talking to some other guy and she thinks that that's what he was. Must have been having an affair because he's always at work and not treating me right.

So it just kind of blows up out of proportion and they end up getting a divorce in 1993. So, yeah, John Cougar Mellencamp weeps. Yeah, he's sad. He's very sad. His guitar cries. His platinum record cracks. So it works. So Michelle, she tries she

moves on you know she gets an office job and starts dating a little bit before that she's a stay-at-home mom you know that was yeah that's that's what they both wanted that's the traditional thing that they both wanted that's like the you know the church encouraged traditional thing and so now she's she goes out gets an office job she dates a little bit here and there you know just different people and, you know, just trying to get her legs under like anybody would. Yeah, you have to.

I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast.

We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied.

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She's never dated as an adult. No. She never did anything. You're right. She hasn't been out with anybody since she was in high school. She barely even worked. That's what I mean. She really hasn't.

She's been going out with Thad and then got married, and that was that. So this is a whole new world for her completely. But it's her choice. It's her choice. Yeah. No, this is what she wants to do. She wants to do something else, so it's fine. Now, Thad, he took it especially hard, the divorce.

Things didn't go well for Thad. No. Now, in his professional life, as we'll hear, he'll move up the ladder in a job and do well and things like that. But emotionally, he's not taking this well. Several accounts. His mother says one time she got a call from Thad and he had rented an apartment. He rented like a sad divorce guy apartment. You know, that sort of thing.

She does it and pulls the trigger. You got to go there. He's got a futon. It's brutal. Yeah. You see his futon. Yeah. Just it's right there. And he's like, I mean, it's a couch pulls the trigger. And then you got to go there. He's got a futon. It's brutal. Yeah. You know, you see his futon. Yeah. Just it's right there. And he's like, I mean, it's a couch during the day.

It's got a lamp with no shade. Yeah. It's couch during the day. Just pull it out. Right. If I then it's a bed and a couch. I need it's too much. So I get one thing is both.

So instead, yeah, he's in this apartment and his mother says she remembered at one point getting a call from him on the phone not just through the yeah out the window mom make me dinner i can't do it he's saying that hi mom i'm currently in my closet uh-huh uh in the dark curled up in a fetal position asking asking God to bring my wife back to me. Oh, that's not good. That is a bad place. Oh, boy, is it. Dark is bad.

Yeah. Fetal position, not great. Crying, not good. Closet? You live in an apartment. That's a closet in itself. It's a large closet. You got into a smaller closet.

A smaller closet to sit in the dark to cry to God to bring my wife back to me. Oh, boy. That's the level of desperation he's at, though. That's where it is. Prayer closet after divorce is no place to be. How you doing? No, no, it's my new place.

It's a one-bedroom there. Bathroom's right this way. There's your prayer closet. If you're going to have a breakdown, just ask God to make your life not a burning pile of shit tires like it is now, just a burning shit tire fire. I do want to show you the nice amenity of this place pretty common for people moving in here they would love a prayer closet here it is here it is this is you pray for your life to be better

we took the crossbar out of it because we we found that that was problematic the cleveland bar we found out was not a good thing from the whole city of Cleveland, we said, why is everybody, they have like a 3,000% higher hanging themselves rate up there in Cleveland. Oh, it's them damn bars. Separate closet. Our depression special. Yeah. There are no crossbars in any of the closets.

Any of the closets. Huh? Come on in. Any of the closets. Any of the closets. Huh? Come on in. And she also, she wasn't having a lot of fun.

No. Like working, being a single mom, trying to date on the side. Oh, that's a tough life. It's a tough life. Is that hard? It's not easy. Is it? She doesn't like it either.

I'm sure. Yeah. So she told all of her friends that she, in the back of her mind she still loved that and she you know was she she even hoped that someday this would all work out with that she uh they know they kept her their wedding rings even they still had their wedding rings and their safe and shit like that so they didn't go they didn't like pawn them the second the ink was dry on the divorce like whoa fuck that 50 bucks sold fuck that motherfucker like they could have done that. Yeah. But they didn't. Buy me a crossbar with this. Oh, baby.

Yeah. End it all. The problem is, too, they're still doing things together. That's the weird part. They're not just, they break up, but they don't live together, obviously. Thad's got his own prayer closet. But they do Christmas together, holidays together. Thad's family goes to Florida, and she tags along with the kids and everything so it's

like they're still doing things it's almost it seems confusing yeah for at least for the child here for olivia at minimum it's confusing for the neither of them are over this yet no obviously not and they i mean i don't know how they would be because they have no they know nothing else right so uh and thad thad at church would get up in front of everybody and ask everyone to pray that his wife comes back to him oh oh but it's on a day that she's not at the fucking yeah no yeah she's sitting in there and he's like everyone pray that that bitch gets michelle third row blonde hair right there yeah look at her the prayer will be stronger if you look at it pray that she come back to me now fuck that song dude if you came to me jimmy if you came to me as a friend yeah

and said dude you do me a favor sure anything and you were like look man i'm just having will you pray right that my ex-wife will come back to me i go what the fuck is wrong with you no no and no you first you don't want that and be no that's stupid all right fine if you need me find me in my prayer i was gonna say go to your prayer closet if you want to pray you've been praying enough that's enough prayers it ain't working clearly you're still in this apartment so 1997 comes around they've been together for they've been apart for four years so they've been apart almost as long as they were together at this point. And it's at this point that neither of them are finding any rewarding lives outside of their marriage.

No happiness. They decide to go into marriage counseling together, even though they're divorced. Divorced counseling. That's not marriage counseling. They go to counseling to see if there's anything there that was worth trying again, basically. They do that, and at the end of counseling, they decide, you know what?

Let's give it one more go. Let's get remarried and everything. Oh, boy. They don't just get remarried down at the courthouse, walk past the baby dicks and go in there and get married. They don't even do that. They have a replica wedding. have hollywood baptist church same friends same fucking you know wedding parties same wedding party i don't know how extravagant the hollywood baptist church is

at any point but same wedding same parties the only difference is they had their daughter walking down the thing no it's yeah do it exact opposite it's yeah if you were at my wedding before you are no longer invited yeah you could have been you motherfucker don't bring up nasa so they so they end up getting married again they get remarried they seem happy there's a ton of pictures of them like doing stuff together they look like there's this one picture of them at like a 50s party where they're like dressed up like they're in it looks like it looks like greece if travolta was a dork instead of gay that's what it looks like you know that's what he kind of looks like a dorky travolta and she's in like the poodle skirt and everything and uh yeah the they even

had oh my god jimmy there was a goddamn fucking there was a a a paper an article in the newspaper oh no quote reynolds love story comes full circle oh boy oh yeah thad reynolds and michelle reynolds here full circle is a picture of the three of them on there right next to a pro systems clean care oriental rug cleaning ad which free pickup and delivery so how many oriental rugs are in that town that they got a cleaning service a lot or just drop off at our new facility so you could do that uh yeah but he uh it's a it's a whole just a the story of their of their love basically and how they got back together this has got to re-energize his whole fucking faith too because he's been praying for this and it happened well he said too he said at one point this is a quote from him in the paper quote i was sitting on the concrete

on the pay phone talking to my mom and just telling her i wish i was dead because i had lost everything in the world that meant anything to me and yeah he said this was like a nightly phone call that he would make i'm gonna go down to the pay phone hey ma i wish i was dead how you doing no yeah yeah no i wish i was dead yeah i'm just sitting here praying for the end of the world on the concrete just praying yeah that's a different no no i'm out of the prayer closet so that's good yeah i don't know i took myself out of it so it's it's amazing so i'm done praying because i wish i was dead absolutely but yeah they basically make it as this is a fairy tale love story that, you know, everybody, you know, oh, look at this nice young couple. It's it's so weird, man.

And, you know, she everybody said it. Look, they look, you know, they were stable together and it looked like they were ready to take this at a more mature stab. OK, at this, because the first time, obviously, you're immature and everything. Now they've had four years apart. They've seen the real world a little bit. They've had four years also to discuss've seen the real world a little bit. They've had four years also to discuss on all these fucking vacations about what they really want. What they want and maybe figure out who they are and what they want and all that sort of

thing. So they do it. They build a little house. Okay. And when I say they build a little house, I mean they physically build a house. They don't have a house built. No. They build a house.

The church members pitched in on the construction oh jesus oh we're so this is like some amish shit they raised a barn uh by the way where is this house it is on uh the same plot of land uh as his parents no it's like in their yard he's doing everything wrong everything wrong so now what's going to be better this time this time we'll live in my parents yard which will be will be much better, I think, for you. You'll be much happier now. Now, every time you look out the window, you'll see my mom. So this is going to help, I think.

Jesus Christ, man. At minimum, she'll teach me how to treat you. Yeah. So he is as happy as can be, though. Of course. He got his family back, wife back. He's got a house on his mom's right there you know the whole thing is wonderful here they end up having three more children over the next

few years i mean they're they pump them right out yeah they're pumping these kids right out they have three more little girls so they end up with four little girls it's a lot of girls that's a lot of girls imagine how many little hair ties are all around the house and shit like that well my god he's getting yelled at. But you know what they don't have? What's that? Zero baby dicks. None.

Zero. Not one. Zero baby dicks in the whole family. Not a one in this house. So that's good. That's helpful. Now, Thad, also, he has been moving up the ladder in his job working for Frito-Lay. Hell, yeah.

Yeah. He moved his way up to being a district manager at Frito-Lay. So, I mean, he's doing just a good job. Right. He's making good money. Yeah. He can support himself. He can support his family.

All the Funyuns he can eat. And, like I said, all the Funyuns. Oh, boy. You can have as many as you want, sir. They're so good. He reeks of Frito 24 hours a day. Fuck. No one will go near him.

The Cheeto dust. So, he also, they go to church every Sunday at the Hollywood Baptist Church. He starts to get into that. He sings in the church's choir. He serves as a deacon as well, which is like a pastor assistant, I guess. The pastor's busy. Can I help you with anything? No, no.

They don't pay. No, no. This is all free. This is all free. I'll volunteer. He's like an assistant manager. They're like, can you refund me my money? No, you have to wait for the pastor for that. This is all free. This is all free. Don't volunteer. He's like an assistant manager. I'm like, can you refund me my money? No, I have to wait for the pastor for that.

He is busy. I can talk to you about it and tell you how sorry we are. I can tell you how much I understand. Sorry. We're so sorry Jesus couldn't help you this week. But if you keep trying, I feel like Jesus can get it done for you next week. Look what he did for me. Well, with Thad, his job is is he helps one of his jobs is helping other

marriages other couples with marriage counseling because he can say like look we figured out how to reconcile so he's the guy that knows how to whatever that's how they look at it so fuck from you sir oh my god one of their friends says quote they appeared to be the most perfect family ever when you would see them so that's what it is that's uh it's fucking crazy like i said fluff pieces in the goddamn paper about it that at this point though he gets into preaching yeah he gets really into preaching everybody says with him it's god first before family before country before fucking whatever you want to name before the dallas cowboys it is fucking god first that's before the falcons yeah before the braves or dan reeves in his heart before we go out and

watch dominique wilkins slam dunk something it is god first so jace yogman my left oh my god yeah he he's super into super into the preaching here. Everybody thinks that he wants to be a missionary, and he tells people that's his real goal. If he could do anything, anything in the world, it would be a missionary. That's what he really goes. Spread the word of the Lord. They spread the word of the Lord to their four little girls because they homeschool them. And it's not just homeschool because you know we feel

like we can educate them better it is literally they say it is to uh shield them from the secular world oh they're raising them with it's jesus and jesus only anytime that word is involved that's some psycho shit yeah that's what i mean it's the answer to everything is jesus the word is indoctrinated sir that's what they're doing. So electricity. Who invented electricity? Jesus? Well, yeah, you're right, son. That's, I feel like, the school there.

So they said, yeah, they were very worried about that. So it's fucking ridiculous. They say they would pray about homeschooling the children, too, to make sure they were doing a good enough job and, you know, giving them a well-rounded enough Christian education. Have we told them enough about Jesus? I feel like they don't know enough. Well, at some point, religion's fine, but at some point you've got to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and not just rely. We've got to work something out. Oh, Jesus Christ.

That's crazy to just arrest everything. Move to drugs see if that works for you so he's one of the pastor's right hand man men at this point and this prompts michelle to get more involved in the church just to be able to you're going there anyway i guess i might as well go in the take the same car yeah so she ends up becoming active with the teenagers in the program putting on like dramatic performances and like dance things yeah christian dance shit but it's like modern shit like they're not doing like uh you know for the kids they try to make it and they say like she's really good with the dance stuff because she did that in high school so she gets like these kids are actually

really well drilled and shit and they're a good uh you know a good a good troop i guess you would say there's a little more freedom here too it's it's not real stiff there's a lot more younger people in this church it seems like they're trying to bring in young families and shit and they're trying snapchat references or whatever that's what the snapchat is of that time yeah like a couple years my space is gonna be big right so yeah it's one of those things they're they're trying to get the younger people into this church teenagers are trying to bring in and that sort of deal uh so they do all of this at one point they uh jesus christ they they do a play thad and michelle it's you know michelle's directing this play and she's in it too and so is thad

and uh here's some script from the play. You have the script. Well, just a piece of it here. At one point, he comes on stage here, and they're looking very traditionally dressed. They don't look... She's got a dress on. Got it. A little more Mennonite.

It's like 50s, basically, it looks like. He comes in and he says, or I'm sorry, she comes in and she says, Michelle does, quote, Oh, honey, I was so busy this morning, I forgot to put the roast in the oven. comes in and he says oh honey or i'm sorry she comes in and she says michelle does quote oh honey i was so busy this morning i forgot to put the roast in the oven you know how crazy it gets around our house on sundays okay so that's what she says and he says that's okay sweetheart i understand we'll go out for lunch and then they walk off the stage so she was making a roast for lunch first of all that's pretty awesome that's getting up early i like it first of all i want to roast for lunch i don't

want you to get up that early she'd have to that shit takes like six hours tell you what but just put it on the night before i don't know so you can't you got a baste so the whole thing here is uh it's ridiculous basically it's a corny, Christian-y shit that they're doing here. But it's nice that they're being very progressive with he doesn't backhander. It's all right. He didn't backhander and go, make my fucking lunch, whore. That's probably good. That's better.

Well, another kind of fucking sandwich you're going to make. Oh, you're going to catch a beating. Nestor's rolling up his sleeves, taking his belt off. Jesus Christ. I have dominion over you woman like that's not what you want so yeah there's uh uh they also have friends they meet a couple or they don't meet a couple they know a couple and they start hanging out with a couple that's also deep into their church it's scott richard scott harper he goes by scotty yeah uh he went to high school with that and Michelle was two years behind them.

And then her, his wife page as well. They become like, you know, they hang out as couples. You look for couples to hang out with when you're there. Scotty was, he was in the air force,

did a tour in the air force. He was in desert storm in the early nineties there. Yeah. He was in the combat communications unit. And he, when he got out of, of the army, he already air force. I'm sorry. Yeah, he was in the combat communications unit. Oh. And when he got out of the Army, or the Air Force, I'm sorry, he got a job as an IT person at the Floyd Medical Center. So he took his computer shit he learned in the Army, brought it into the civilian world, got himself a half-decent job. And yeah, that's what he did.

Got married, went to the church, that sort of deal. They're very much just a of just a lot like that. And Michelle, like they live in a house on his parents property. It's the same shit. Yeah, this is some weird. Everybody does the same shit. It's all uniform. It's all the same.

Yeah. And also he's a volunteer church leader as well. And the same thing, you know, volunteer pastor. His thing is he uh he he like hangs out with kind of the teenage boys and like you know helps them while michelle kind of helps the teenage girls out that's what scotty does here and uh page isn't that involved in the church she has her own thing but she also they have three small girls as well so that's the other thing too there's seven girls in this couple seven My Christ. Four little girls, three little girls.

When they hang out, they all go. Not a baby dick between them. Not a baby dick in sight, which makes me feel much better. They said the kids were all like best friends, and they'd go do things together, camping trips and barbecues and family. They'd go camping for the day and shit like that. They hung out as a couple. the day and shit like that they hung out as a couple uh the husbands were uh the husbands started hanging out when thad was divorced yeah when you know when they were divorced and he was looking

for people to talk to scotty was one of the guys he talked to and they and he scotty was in the church they talk about the bible together oh boy yeah uh he thad would tell the congregation how great scotty was and how good at counseling people he was. Yeah, it's like a boring great outdoors is what they are, basically. They trust them. Oh, yeah, they trust each other. Yeah, I mean, they're church people here. They're pals. They're pals, man.

Now, Michelle, she really takes the kind of, I don't know if you'd call it theatrical, but like the program of the teens putting on shows. She really takes it to the next level and tries to just do a lot with it. It seems to be successful bringing teens into the church and keeping them involved in it and keeping them excited. This week, cats. Yeah, there it goes. So they said that her shit was better than it should have been, better than it had a right to be. She was good at it. The guys were so into church that they had their

own a group of them would go to church a group of guys scotty and scotty fad and their friends they'd go to church on sunday but they would meet at mcdonald's to have like a tailgating church session they'd tailgate some jesus they'd literally stop at mcdonald's to have a pre-church prayer where they would eat breakfast together and i'll have a big prayer nothing says jesus like an egg of muffin oh absolutely it's a hash brown those things are straight from the lord they have a little halo around the body of christ body of christ now that if the body of christ was a mcdonald's hash brown you might be able to get me into religion. I might be in. As a child, I might have said, I'll give this a look.

They're a bit oily. They're a little oily. I don't know about Jesus. There's a bit more oil in that hash brown than usual. Jesus, let me have some Pantene Pro-V. You're a little oily. But the problem is the women, Michelle and Paige, are never as tight as the guys. They're not as close.

Paige doesn't really like Michelle as much and michelle's not really into page they're not they're just not as as buddy buddy is page hot no no that's the problem there's a problem here with page i'm not going to judge her looks or anything but it's objectively everyone thinks michelle is much prettier than page that's just the way it is and that's just that's just it including page right page will ask scotty repeatedly do you think michelle's prettier than me and shit like that and he's like of course she is and i'm just kidding ask anybody i mean of course obviously jesus do you see the way everyone looks at her i didn't between me and thad, Thad did better. All right?

I'm just going to say, I'm a little jealous. That's all. But it's fine. So, yeah, that's the type of thing that goes on. So she's kind of jealous of Michelle because Scotty spends a lot of time with Michelle working on the plays and working with the kids and shit like that. So she just starts to feel a little inferior and a little like a third wheel. Sure. Or even a fourth wheel in this case.

Yeah. So they also, they get close, Scotty and Michelle, based on the work they have to do with the kids. They talk about church stuff on the phone, about we're going to take the kids here. Also, he knows so much about her. Oh, yeah. That gave him all the insight. Telling him everything. That's what I mean.

They've talked, imagine how long, how many endless hours Thad talked this guy's fucking ear off about it. Come into my prayer closet. There's room for two. We're going to chat. If we stand, it's fine. If we stand, there's plenty of room. If we both go in the fetal position, we can spoon.

The Lord is all right with spooning as long as my dicks in my pants and i'll put it away for that but not before so they uh uh yeah they start talking on the phone they exchange emails scotty and michelle uh about you know church stuff what act we're gonna rehearse this day or you know what songs we're gonna do here's the here's the lyrics or the music for that the inside jokes that they have. That's the thing. Oh, that one kid, oh yeah, he's super cross-eyed or whatever. I know his parents are totally brother and sister.

Yeah, they're going to joke about the kids, the kids like that. So it's hard though because everyone's having sort of not marital problems, but little cracks in the marriage. Yet they're all counseling other people on marriages. That's the thing, because they're all pretending like everything's fine in this whole church thing. Michelle, like I said, whenever they'd hang out, she would like to see Scotty. But then they didn't really hang out with Paige so much. It was weird. It wouldn't be like two guys go hang out and then Michelle and Paige go hang out.

It would just be kind of like they hang out in a group and nobody really likes Paige. That's what it kind of felt like. You know, I don't know. That's the vibe I'm getting. That's the vibe I'm getting. Because if Michelle doesn't like her and then then Fat has no interest in Paige, and then Scotty isn't really into her either and likes Michelle, but who the fuck likes Paige? Nobody likes Paige.

Poor Paige. Paige doesn't even like Paige. Paige, no. At this point, Paige is very sad and not liking herself. She's looking at prayer closets. Oh, my goodness. There's a good one. So in about 2004, Michelle is starting to not be happy with her life here.

She's bored. She's sick of all the churchy shit. She's just tired of her standard life she's been living. And at one point, Thad and Michelle take a trip. They go camping at some campgrounds in Gatlinburg, Tennessee, which is up in the Smoky Mountains there. And Michelle said, I want to buy that cabin.

I want to buy the resort property and we can run it. We'll run a resort property, campground, bed and breakfast thing, and that's going to be our new life. We'll move to Gatlinburg, Tennessee and we'll do it. Let's just get out of Rome,

fuck this whole thing, we'll go up there, we'll cater to tourists. You ever been somewhere and been like, I like this place. I'm going to buy it. I'm going to buy it and move here and change my whole family.

Problem is, too, it's a resort. And we're talking back 20 years ago, it was over a million dollars in rural Tennessee. So, I mean, it's a lot of property and shit. You've got a million dollar aspirations, too, honey. Let's make it first. Come on. That's what I mean. So, Thad, he tries to make it happen for her that's what i mean so thad he tries to

make it happen for because that's what she wants and he wants to keep her happy so he literally gets somehow cobbles together i don't know it's because through the i don't know if it probably helps if you're deep in a church and there's community members that are in the church you know like people in the banking community because somehow he gets qualified really to buy over a million dollar resort property as a frito-lay district manager so i don't know how the fuck he pulled that off i think i do okay for myself in terms of my rents paid but there is yeah no buying a million dollar resort i'm not buying anything for 200 grand no that's yes never mind a million dollars so this so luckily for thad and michelle honestly luckily for

everybody at the last minute before they closed the deal somebody else stepped in with a bigger offer and took it and they couldn't afford that offer so they don't end up getting the property thad brings a sigh of relief oh boy thank fuck i almost had to design a fucking menu yeah oh my goodness he's got an apron on down there like i'm not a cook you know unless you want funyuns i got nothing for you so uh that she starts getting this upsets her funyuns infused menu no it's an all funyun menu everything's got funyun or bright orange cheese dust on it it's it's see what it is's a spaghetti, but it's infused with all kinds of Frito-Lay products. Mostly Cool Ranch.

This is the Cool Ranch section of our menu. Can I interest you in a salt and vinegar? It's a fettuccine Cool Rancho. I feel like you're going to like it. Instead here, Michelle is upset by this, obviously. She starts to live on the property of her in-laws she starts stops going over there so much she starts going out all the time like when thad gets home from work she's like here's the kids later she'll just take off which is fine

but it's not like her it's not what she used to do they used to eat dinner and you know hang out with the kids and do all that now she just takes off uh meanwhile thad he just jumps into the church even more he's just like he's not seeing the signs of maybe i should pay more attention to my wife he's like well i mean i guess i should pray about it more we've got four kids clearly we have enough sex yeah i mean that's fine so yeah uh he goes on a missionary trip to cuba okay and uh which you know back then cuba was not really as open as it is now. And if you went to that was like a hardcore thing. So he goes on a missionary trip, comes home and he says, you know what?

I've seen the light. I've seen the light. That's what I need to do right there. I need to be a full time minister, missionary, whatever it is. I need to spread the word of Jesus. Oh, boy perm full time and what i'm gonna do is here's what i gotta do i'm gonna leave my job and uh quote see where jesus leads me that's not a plan that is not a plan no at all especially when you have four right kids that's definitely not a plan you have fucking six mouths your feet yeah and michelle said fuck no we're not doing

that i barely want to go to church on sunday you want to fucking just see where jesus leads us it's going to lead us to you know poverty that's where jesus is going to lead us we're surviving on flaming hots as it is right now i mean there's a whole cabinet full of them the kids mouths are on fire they're just on fire you know that it's terrible so uh yeah she's not into it uh she says she tells people that she's um you know just feels like she's about a little tired of god being her husband basically or you know her husband being married to god more than her type of shit uh it's at this point where she's still talking to scotty all the time about all the church stuff and she starts to send some messages that are a little more than church business oh bye uh she tells scotty that she has been having naughty thoughts about him that's that's the

that's the language she uses and he says that that's so is he crazy naughty thoughts about you too you're rubbing i'm tugging weird this is amazing this is great let's perfect let's get together here uh so it's really weird here so thad wants to like we said quit for the ministry and all that sort of shit uh what this at the same time she's, you know, about to, she's saying she's attracted to his friend. He is oblivious to this shit. One day he's driving along the road listening to Christian radio, as one does, obviously.

When you're that into Jesus. Yeah, what else are you going to listen to? So he's listening to Christian radio, just that on his own. And he said at that point, God spoke to him. Yeah. Spoke to him.

Not the DJ. Not even through the radio. Oh. It wasn't even like Thad. And he was like, oh, I like the subwoofer I put in. This is better. I can hear God more clearly now.

Thad? Thad, it's Jesus right here on KJazz. Jesus, Mary Ann Joseph right here on k jazz 98.7 the jizz jzz that's a real radio station here it is yes oh god the cages jesus marianne joseph hour coming at you coming at you live we're down here at danny's auto wash saving lives saving lives saving souls even more than that we're gonna talk to some people we're gonna amend some fences ponch's pilot come on out here let's have a chat come on buddy it's fucking insane kjss that's k jesus it's right

here for you he they said to him uh he what did god say to you obviously you don't want to know if god's gonna speak to you what the fuck did he say yeah uh it's not even private he's more than happy to tell everyone he says that god told him quote son give yeah okay that's suspicious um he says out loud to nothing uh what do you want me to give and uh god after he got done laughing a man talking to no one in his car you think this is real it's going no seriously oh he's buying this shut up i think he's shut the fuck up dude shut up buddha shut the fuck up bro seriously man god damn it fuck tell fucking the eight armed elephant shut, shut the fuck up, too. I'm trying to do something here.

The eight-armed elephant. Son. Shut up. Son. What is it you want me to give? And God said, ever what you have. Okay. So all of it.

Be broke? It was God said, run them jewels, bitch jewels bitch like what the fuck did he just do he just got stuck up that is a fucked up thing to say to somebody so well fad more than happy to oblige opens up his wallet yeah he's got 35 bucks in his wallet okay so fad he's got 35 bucks so what does he do with this money he drives to the christian radio station i assume the one that's broadcasting this uh cages and he drives there walks in yeah it's not like an open it's not walking into a studio we've recorded out of station you go to a reception desk he walks into a reception desk who's just some person who's answering filing her nails filing her phones there's no phone

ringing no come on he walks in plunks 35 bucks cash down on the counter and says i want you to take this because i want you to use this to bring marriages back together okay and she went you have an appointment with who is it is anyone expecting you or the fuck are you talking about i'm a receptionist at a radio station i don't know a radio station that gets no phone calls i don't even know who's on the air right now if anyone's listening nobody knows who's on the air nobody knows for you we can't bring this isn't going to help put it that way she took that 35 bucks bought a a big dildo and some strawberry loopube. Yeah. And her relationship's never been stronger. Never. No.

No, she's still talking to Scotty and saying she's attracted to him and all this. But at the same time, she's telling Thad. She's giving Thad hints. This is the thing. Thad's got to recognize these hints. She's telling him, I need a date. I need a date. We need to be like a couple. We need to go out on a date.

I want your cock. I want cock. Right. Yes, which is fine. Now, they went out all the time and they had a social life and shit, but it's all about church. It's all around the church. Everything's church, church, church, church, church here. So, Thad and Scotty continue to counsel each other.

Now, Scotty is exchanging kind of flirty messages and counseling Thad at the same time. Yeah. So, this is not a good thing. Conflict of interest. And it is, and Thad actually picks it up because I guess they talk about the marital problems, and Scotty confides in Thad at one point that he's basically jealous of Thad,

saying that Michelle's the perfect woman you got there, and you must be so happy, and I wish I was that happy, Michelle's the perfect woman you got there and you, you know, you must be so happy and I wish I was that happy and shit like that. Yeah. So after this session, Thad comes home and tells Michelle, I'd like you to stay away from Scotty. Cause he told me you're everything that he wants in a wife. So I feel like maybe you should just not hang out with him anymore.

I don't trust him. Michelle's got to be like that. Why would he say that? Yeah. Don't tell him. Fucking idiot. Jesus Christ. Yeah. I don't trust him. Michelle's got to be like that. Why would he say that? Yeah. Don't tell him. Fucking idiot. Jesus Christ. Yeah, I know.

Churchy. Gotti. Whatever. Yeah. Jesus never lies. It's all good. But what the fuck? Come on, man.

So she said that, you know, she couldn't. She said, even if I wanted to not hang out with him, we have we're producing all these plays and he's involved in it. So, I mean, we're going to hang out no matter what. Don't worry about it. You know, I'll be careful be careful if he takes it out i'll tell him to put it away it's fine we have all these church things going you know shit like that so they continue to talk on the phone and they continue to email and do all that sort of shit uh page is starting to fight with scotty more saying why are you hanging out with michelle all the time and all

sorts of shit like that um they're they go on a rafting trip together, everybody. And afterwards, Scotty and Paige have a huge fight saying that, you know, I saw the way you're looking at Michelle and you guys are, you know, have little inside jokes and you made fun of the cross-eyed kid. Right. You know how it goes here. So, yeah, nobody wants, Paige doesn't want scotty around michelle that doesn't want michelle around scotty right it's one of those things here uh so this what this does is

drive uh scotty and michelle into all they talk about is how neither of their spouses want them to hang out together yeah that's what they start talking about here oh my my husband's so suspicious of you oh well my wife is jealous of you so this makes them kind of you know it brings them closer together it does that's the thing it gives them something to talk about it does and that's exactly what it is and uh you know for her she says she tells people that she feels like she's getting some attention and he calls her beautiful all the time and she's telling her him how awesome he is and they're great then at one point things start to get a little different because at one point she uh kind of takes it to the next level by sending him like kind of explicit erotic things emails things that

they want he wants she wants to do with him uh she sent him several pages, like pictures from the Kama Sutra, of things that she would like to do with him. This doesn't happen at my house. Yeah, this is what I'd like to do. I'd like you to put my leg here. You think you can get in me from this? I dare you. I dare you. Let's try it.

So now they're exchanging emails and text messages and doing all this shit. At one point, the families go away, and they share a camper vehicle together, the four of them, which sounds like a terrible idea. Hold on. Just the parents are in a camper together? The kids are there, too. The kids have a separate camper. Okay. But in the camper, it's just the parents, and the kids have their own camper.

Jesus, this is 11 people. Yeah, no, too many there. So Scotty and page take the kids all the kids to the lake and they leave fat and michelle alone okay this was a big deal for michelle michelle said she was like hell yeah let's get fucking yeah okay we're alone in the woods this is great here's the kama sutra thad wasn't into it he wanted to do some bible study so uh that was a big deal and uh that that pissed her off and she was very very upset about that uh on that same camping trip scotty and thad were you know hanging out obviously

scotty lost thad's hunting knife i guess he lent him a hunting knife to go do something he dropped it somewhere in the weeds and couldn't find it so he lost his hunting knife so for the next uh few days you know thad's breaking his balls about it like ah shit it so he lost his hunting knife so for the next uh few days you know thad's breaking his balls about it like oh shit sure wish i had my hunting knife right now oh someone wouldn't have lost it maybe i'd have it i can open this bag of funyuns if i have my hunting knife breaking balls though not not not being a dick or not anything like that just breaking balls and so uh scotty said i promise i'll replace Obviously, we'll go to the store and do that sort of thing. So the next week, the next Tuesday after this is over the weekend. And that Tuesday, Michelle meets Scotty in the parking lot of the Floyd Medical Center where he worked and did IT shit.

Yeah. Okay. And so they get into her SUV and they fuck then. That's their first fucking in an SUV in a medical center parking lot. Oh my God. Very romantic. So I mean, scrubs off.

I believe that's in the Bible. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Medical center SUV. It's all in there. So, uh,

just feet first. That's how it worked. So they were now after this, they start getting kind of hot and heavy. I mean, they're once you start, you can't stop. You know, that's a Lay's, but still. Potato chips. I think that is Pringles.

Is it Pringles once you pop? With Lay's, you can't just eat just one. Can't just eat just one. Yeah. There you go. You can't suck it just once. Can't just suck it once. You know how it goes.

So, yeah, they used to, both of them would always go to the gym in the morning and now they say they're going to the gym and they just go meet each other and fuck instead oh boy uh yeah motels uh you know cars it's grimy it's a grimy affair yeah this is great i mean it's it's shitty but i understand yeah that's what i mean and so they also they start and this is when it gets more than fucking, they start kind of having like little fantasy conversations about running away together. They start talking about, hey, we could move out of here. Let's get out of here.

They start talking about their code for let's move out of here is they want to go to Portland, Oregon. What? They keep saying, I don't know. By the way, second show in Portland there. It's on sale right now. It's almost on sale. And it's going quick, so get those tickets.

I think it's in June. So they even, like, you know, they would talk about that. They would all day long with the emails and the calls. They, you know, they went to, like, they'd go, like, an hour away to some town to go out to dinner together. So no one would see them. That sort of shit here. of dinner together so no one could see them that sort of shit here uh also page is getting very suspicious because she sees that michelle's behavior toward her has changed so she just seems a little bit colder to her and shit like that so she's like what the fuck's up with this

bitch right you know what's going on here this is bullshit uh so um at one point she got so bad that michelle was being such a dick to page that page actually confronted her and asked her, did I do something to you? Or are you like mad at me or some shit? I'm going to be fucking my husband. Well, page Michelle's response to page, uh, was basically that page wasn't Jesusy enough. And Michelle's response was quote, no, you didn't do anything wrong. But I just want to be around people who are on fire for God. Oh, boy.

You know, not you. Yeah. You know, that sort of also people who aren't fucking the guy I want to fuck. That is a terrible thing to say. That's an awful thing to say. She said that's not nice. So it's pretty fucking ridiculous. So Michelle, she's, you know, she's got two things going on.

And so does Scotty. This is it's beginning to be a mess you know what i mean uh neither of them are are planned to be cheaters and shit like that so they start to you know they start to talk about what are they going to do they're still talking about portland uh one point here this is interesting uh this is after the affair is going on hot and heavy the families go together away for weekend, and it's all the kids and kids from the dance, from the fucking dance troupe, from church. Everybody's out here, okay?

They're all going there. Thad stayed home because he had to work. He was probably crushed by that. He couldn't go to a Christian gathering. Jesus Christ. So they stayed at a motel overnight. Now, all the parents stayed. There would be kind of chaperone.

There would be one parent with a shitload of kids in a room. And they'd all sleep on the floor in their sleeping bags. And they'd do that sort of thing, which sounds like a nightmare. Sounds like my family vacation. Oh, Jesus Christ. But somehow it got arranged for Michelle to have her own room. Everybody else shares rooms with a bunch of kids. Michelle has her own room for some reason.

I don't know what it is. So as soon as everybody else goes to sleep, Scotty's in her room. Of course. Getting their fuck on all night. Our God is an awesome God. He reigns. And they're singing. They're singing and banging.

They're praising. Hell yeah. Headboards smacking against the wall yeah and uh yeah so they would they would do that and uh uh they would talk about at this point how they got to get out of here to scotty and and uh scotty and michelle these two dipshits have seven kids between oh yeah they're gonna run away is your dismount where are you gonna run away yeah portland idiots how many kids you're bringing this is so dumb what the hell here yeah so it's very silly uh they start calling their their respective spouses gnats like oh i can't talk the gnats are around me right now there's

so many gnats everywhere it's it's weird here so uh yeah it's it's it's getting to the point where everybody's a little bit uncomfortable and it's kind of like this unspoken thing. Like, well, clearly they're having an affair. We're all just going to pretend this isn't happening. It's super out of control. It's it's it's very much out of control. So they start talking, Scotty and Michelle. Like, well, how are we actually going to do this?

Like you said, the dismount. And Scotty said he's pretty sure that Paige would give him a divorce. I think Paige would let me divorce. Triple lutz with a twist. That's mine. let me divorce her. Triple lets with a twist. That's mine. What's yours? So that's my dismount. You, on the other hand, Michelle says, well, I already got one divorce.

So I think I'm kind of locked into this one for the long haul. Remember the prayer closet? He's not. No. He was telling me, remember how many times he made you pray for him? This isn't working. Do you remember the prayer closet? Because I know somebody that certainly remembers the prayer closet, and he wants nothing to

do with that prayer closet. So what are we going to do? Yeah. So she tells him it's just not going to work. He wants to be a full-time minister. To be twice divorced from the same woman isn't going to look good on his resume for ministry either. Nobody's going to listen to that shit.

Exactly. So Michelle started telling Scototty in like emails and shit if you want me as your bride you're just gonna have to outlive that and shit like that starts out joking around uh they would uh keep emailing and going back and forth about that well i mean you're gonna have to outlive them i don't know what to tell you at one point scott says that he he told her at one point that she could just why don't you slather all a bunch of extra butter on his food maybe he'll have a heart attack and they're joking around about it and shit like that is that a joke or is he literally that stupid i think he's like it'll happen it'll take 30 years

but you know i heard butter is bad for people if you can get him smoking i feel like 30 40 years he could probably hurt him i think i think maybe he could get the cancer at that point. How's his taste for that whiskey? Yeah, let's do it. So he, Thad also, or Thad, Scotty suggests that maybe they could have spaghetti for dinner, and they could have two pots of sauce going. They could have one for Thad and Paige, and one for Michelle and Scotty, and they could poison Thad and Paige's that and pages and they die which is stupid if you want to poison someone with italian food the olive

garden is available you don't need to go to the extent of this take them there and then they'll also a poison pot that's not obvious to the cops what would they have to eat would y'all have to eat why is there two pots of sauce for four people murder solved yes it's pretty easy here so they're they're also at this point there's a lot of internet searches talking about portland and they're looking up shit in portland they're looking up like apartments in portland jesus uh and they said like oh if we could get married then we could move to portland um seven kids in an apartment oh yeah and they they use this as like a code thing to like you know feel close to each other when they're in front of people you know portland's nice this time of year they'd say to each other and shit like

that so they could say it you know in front of people and it's crazy so at one point here michelle says look you you're gonna have to take care of that you're gonna have to tell him that you're having an affair with me and then it's over between us and i'm not gonna tell him because you know whatever this is your job is it i'd be like you married this motherfucker not me you married him twice i'm not married to him lady i'll tell my wife you tell your husband but instead uh scotty says that okay i'll do it i'll be the one to tell thad and it goes uh it goes she says that she was afraid that would blow up at her and fucking you know lose her mind and maybe she would hit her and you know maybe he would hit her and things like

that which has never happened before yeah so uh she starts telling her him at this point look scotty fucking thad's gonna be here at this time you better meet him and take care of shit and she would just say you better take care of it you better meet him and take care of it you better meet him and be a man and do what you need to do and shit like that like she keeps telling him in the email it's real vague language here from this dummy from this guy this guy's a moron that's the thing so uh yeah so jesus imagine having to do that and he's like okay and then he would like to send her a message like i must have just missed him i went there this morning literally like he would just not go and just be like i must have missed him i don't know

uh but she at one point here uh uh she one day he follows her instructions, says this is where he's going to be. And Thad actually shows up and he sees Thad and he couldn't confront Thad. Scotty just couldn't do it. And he told Michelle about it. She got super pissed off at him and said at one point an email said, have you talked to him yet? Have you done the thing you promised you were going to do? That's an email there. Well, it's certainly not go on no it's just super insulting that that uh she's making him go go do this what does she think thad's gonna do when he gets home you know what i mean like what even if he says

look she wants a divorce uh why would she want a divorce i don't know man she just told me she wants a divorce maybe you should know maybe you should know yeah he's got to tell him by the way i've been fucking your wife and she wants to divorce you super super uncomfortable here so uh yeah i would say so so on july 1st here it's a thursday um scotty goes to a kmart and buys the the replacement knife that that thad that he lost of fads okay very nice way that'll make it better hey thad good news bad news i took two things from you you can have this one back i have one that you can have back the other one is gone long gone so uh uh the next the day after that it's a friday he waited for thad to come out of a restaurant and uh scotty had the knife with him and everything and he just watched

that get into his car drive away didn't have the balls to do it yeah and uh he took off and so it's at that point he told michelle i saw him this morning but i just couldn't do it so now uh michelle wanted to meet him and talk to him at lunchtime she said she wanted to talk she said look if you don't do this uh it's fucking over basically between us she said quote you're not man enough to do this thing you said you were going to do and if not forget about me because i'm going to be gone you can't do this and i don't want you and blah blah blah that's how it worked here yeah so scotty feels this slipping away now he feels this is this is slipping away this is not great uh michelle is kind of kind of cutting

it off here basically he's got to he's got to do something about it so um um yeah it's at this point that thad is at church saying that he asking people to pray for him saying he's not a good enough husband meanwhile he should just not be asking people to pray for him he should take that time to go fuck his wife down on on her. Yeah, there you go. Bury her head in the cupboard. Do something, goddammit. So, yeah, he says that he's not the husband he should be and shit like that. And, yeah, people are like,

well, do something about it, stupid. An eight-year-old in the front row. Why don't you fuck her? Why don't you give her... You try that? Try just... Just bend her over to the counter and surprise her. Right.

I think she'll like it. Mush her face in the dish. Why? She's going like that. Just not like the letter up out of it. Once you see bubbles, that's a good enough. He let her out. So he she's at this point.

She was telling her friends, you know, why is he going to these people? Come to me and talk about it. This is ridiculous. He's trying to play the victim and she gets all super pissed off and she's telling fucking scotty what an asshole he is and then fourth of july weekend the families get together yeah at this point uh all the girls everything like that uh now uh this is one where page takes a shot at michelle uh i guess uh michelle is wearing a tank top and Paige tells her, I can't believe that you're wearing that tank top around the children.

No bra or anything. It's getting tense. The whole thing is getting very tense. Later on that day, Scotty gets an email from Michelle with information about where Thad's going to be the next morning, Monday morning. Basically, it's over unless you do this shit.

You need to do what you said you were going to do. That's what she keeps saying. Handle it. That's it, man. So, by the way, that weekend, that Friday night, they were supposed to have their big date night, Thad and Michelle. And on their big date night,

they left the kids with his parents and everything like that. And he said, stop it at at church that's what they did they spent it at church so she was she was extra pissed that was date night i got a babysitter for you fuck jesus fucking unbelievable oh my god so monday morning comes around yeah so she's pissed about that that's her date night then that you know she's telling thad you better get there telling scotty you better get this shit done on sunday so then monday morning uh at the frito-lay factory distribution center this is in rome georgia here uh there's a driver coming in to work at the frito-lay distribution center here he sees it's

dark it's it's pre-dawn i mean it's it's whatever and so it's early in the morning it's dark out there he sees a man in the doorway to the office but doesn't recognize the man like kind of a figure of a man you know light behind him silhouette type of deal he says he saw the man this is the employee saw the man looking around nervously then the man went to a red minivan in the parking lot and he opened the door so the cab light came on and the guy could see him. And then this man took his shirt off by the minivan, takes his shirt off, throws it in the minivan, gets in, and drives away quickly. That's what the guy sees, this employee. So this employee is like, what the fuck?

That was weird. Don't see people taking their shirts off very much. Not at the Frito-Lay. Not at the Frito-Lay. So he goes inside. And as he goes inside, he starts to see things a little awry. There's a shit knocked over, some stuff on the floor from the desk, things that are normally very orderly. Somebody rifled through some shit.

Yeah, it looks really weird. Well, then he sees a couple of blood drops. he's like oh what is this all about and he follows it a little more and what he finds is thad uh very bloody on the floor uh this guy calls 9-1-1 and that is pronounced dead at 6 27 a.m uh stabbed about 19 times uh very very very stabby that's a lot it's a lot of stabbing it was a and they said it couldn't have been a robbery because there's no money at the unless they were there to steal a pallet of funyuns there's really nothing there to steal there's no money there's no anything like it's paperwork right and shit like chess or cheetah does not exist you want a trucking routing fucking sheet because that's what you're gonna steal so so 19 doesn't sound like a big number but it's a lot throw your arm

stab something 19 times a lot it's a lot you're out of breath that does damage yeah that's a boy that was a rough one man whoo gotta catch my breath man that was rough uh so yeah they look in they look through everything. They said there was a scuffle outside and inside is what they find. They said that the weapon wasn't recovered from the scene. There was no weapon there, but they believed it to be a knife, obviously. It was stabbed a lot. He took it with him.

Basically, here. They said that the employee went in and saw him and called 9-1-1 they did find a sheath to a hunting knife uh on the ground near where the red minivan was there so that's a that's something uh they said that uh we're quote we're looking for a red minivan it's the only lead we've got at this time is what they said so they found blood inside and outside the main entrance they found blood uh like all around all by the parking lot they found a lot of blood all over the place here is what they found uh they said that uh quote if we lift any prints that's where we're going to start we don't know uh the

only other thing they found was a pair of prescription glasses at the scene as well that didn't seem to belong to anybody and they were on the floor so that's something that they don't they think might be evidence here so yeah it's uh thad was 36 years old 19 times uh obviously intentional and uh the sheriff here said we maybe have two murders a year so this was very eye-opening for our community yeah i would say so barely outlived jesus barely almost but i mean there was blood everywhere it was one of those scenes where it just looked like a fucking mess i mean 19 stabs think about all the spatter that's coming out and if you hit a artery it's it's crazy and you're better if you're trying to kill them yeah that's the thing so it's going to be a lot of blood here uh the big puddles and everything else so uh uh the the the the pastor finds out somehow the pastor at Hollywood Baptist Church finds out before Thad does, or before Michelle does.

Really? Yeah, it's very weird. So he goes to tell Michelle about it. And he tells Michelle, and I guess, you know, the mother's there, Thad's mother's there, and Thad's mother obviously is crying, and Thad's sister's there, and they're all very sad. And, you know, they said Michelle is a little Thad's sister's there and they're all very sad. And they said Michelle is a little, she's a little bit subdued, let's say. She's not quite as heartbroken as everybody else.

And everybody processes shit in their own way. She could just be numb. That's the thing. That's the thing. An emergency prayer request went out to the Hollywood Baptist community. Emergency prayer. It's an emergency, man it got them back together maybe it'll bring him back to life yes let's pray let's try now also uh she says because

people started noticing that she wasn't that kind of sad and michelle says she was on antidepressants and a sleeping pill and also xanax okay so she's trying to chill herself out a little bit here so uh yeah and then jesus christ man uh page was there and uh obviously now page was there because the whole community was there and then finally later on uh scotty shows up now scotty shows up when he shows up he's got a bandaged right hand oh which is super weird uh what he they said what happened to your hand and he said i had a weightlifting accident, which most of the time, weights are very sharp. The one thing they do is they slice you open a lot.

It's a very common thing that just bursts into, right? How'd you do that? Weightlifting, really? How hard do you go in the gym, boy? Real hard. Your fucking arms explode. Your hands explode. And they also noticed that he didn't have his glasses on and they're like where are your glasses and he goes i must

have left them in the gym dumbbells ah you know i got me there too i was distracted by my cut hand there i didn't realize my own weight my own strength i lifted that plate of 45s right into my own face yeah you know you know how it is so yeah they the uh the police are wondering they also noticed that scotty drives a burgundy minivan so they're like okay he's got a cut on his hand he drives a burgundy minivan this is getting weird bad at this and then at the same time all this is going on and the police are very suspicious of him and they're just kind of looking toward his way they get a call the police do from a man who works on the phone systems at floyd medical center okay he sits down calls the detectives and he says i think

you'll be interested in some emails that i have i'm kind of the security guy i monitor all the inter-office emails and phone calls and so i hear phone calls he says i've been basically watching this affair yeah bloom for like months hugging for just like oh yeah this has been like his soap opera because i've been listening to these people on the phone yeah uh it's it's have you guys heard of the kama sutra i'll send you a few pages she has good ideas tell you what uh this is all legal perfectly legal i mean that's part of his job is he can be monitored by the office. They can do whatever they want to him. So this guy said, look, you know, I didn't want to tell anybody.

I didn't want to do anything. But now that I see this is all going on and I saw the news, I thought maybe you guys. Wait till you get a load of mouth on this whore. And he said, yeah. Well, he said the thing that made him do it was they told him to be uh that he heard there was a the big thing was they're looking for a burgundy van and he said shit that guy's got a burgundy minivan i better call and uh so yeah that's that's that's how it works so now now the detectives get all of his work emails scotty being an it guy didn't even

erase his emails didn't even didn't even just simply put him in the trash never mind you know actually cover his tracks wow so it's still the same email chain it is oh it is and the cops find it and they can just read it as it starts and gets worse and worse and worse and worse right down to michelle going you need to be a man and do what you say you're going to do and all this type of shit so no yeah uh they they they talk about one they talk about uh uh uh an email where it was michelle saying that uh it was called they called it the wheel of fortune was the subject of it and they were talking about all they want to it was basically an email about sex games they want to play with each other uh they had things where they do like mad like sexual mad libs really yeah like you know i want to and then have other. They had things where they do like mad, like sexual mad libs.

Really? Yeah. Like, you know, I want to and then have a blank and this to this. Yeah. You know, they're like fucking 17 year olds that just discovered fucking, you know, it's weird. So now they start to see all of this and they've got the prescription glasses and they go, you know what?

Let's talk to this. Talk to the Scotty guy. The cops do. So they bring in. They bring in Scottyty he comes in with his wife okay first thing they ask him is hey where are your glasses yeah uh i don't know i must have dropped them somewhere uh if you had an affair with michelle reynolds there's very difficult questions right off the bat here yeah uh he can't explain shit he lies to he says no i didn't have an affair with michelle and anything like that and they they had the emails already they knew it was going on so when they left the station because they let him go home when they left the

station uh jesus christ uh page said he asked page asked him if he knew anything about fad's murder and he said to her quote do you realize what you're asking me wrong answer not a good one not a good answer at all so yeah they end up uh they ask if he could they can search his van he agrees yeah and so they do that uh the police page is kind of knowing what's going on now they think they're they're obviously it's suspicious they're suspicious of him sure uh they believe too that he scotty was trying to get back to the office to delete shit on his computer. That was what his main goal was. He was trying to get rid of emails, but they already had the emails already printed.

That's the problem. Yeah, they already have Portland. Yeah. How's Portland? Asshole. Here. It's nice. This type of year.

So, yeah, big, long emails. They have all this type of shit. It looks pretty fucking obvious here. So they end up talking to Michelle. And there's a couple of things that they notice about Michelle. One, that she already had a funeral dress, which was a weird thing. They were like, that's strange. She goes, it's just a black dress.

But they were like, it's a funeral dress. You're not wearing that shit like out. You know, it's rest in peace on the back. Yes. That's that's picture on the back and in memoriam. Yeah. So they they Scotty calls Michelle on the phone. OK, he calls Michelle and he's like, look, I obviously I fucking did this and I did what you wanted me to do.

And, you know, it's over with and uh she says on the phone quote nightmare never ends that's what she says because she he said now the cops are talking to me and they're suspicious and blah blah blah and i guess she said that she had to go and then scotty called again and michelle pleads with him look if you're going to confess to the crime please don't do it until after the funeral let me get my funeral in first before you do it that way there's no craziness there uh she says i don't uh i don't want my girls to ever know you did this and he says well they're going to at some point here and so uh she says quote can you at least give them the funeral don't talk to the police until after the funeral is what the what she's asking at this point so

yeah this is page obviously knows what's going on at this point as well so that's a problem she has to uh she he finally uh admits to page that he killed he killed that and then uh they call page calls his sister over there to talk to him they call the pastor pastor. None of these people are police officers, by the way. I haven't heard that word at all. Not at all. They call the pastor. The pastor says, you need to get a lawyer. First of all, the pastor tells me you need to turn yourself in.

That's whatever. And he says, so the lawyer comes and gets him a lawyer. And the lawyer says, first thing we're going to do before we head to the police station, we're going to go check you in with a psychiatric hospital because you're crazy. Good move. That's a you know whatever uh yeah he said you know he needs to go there and and and you know whatever so he goes into the psych ward overnight and uh yeah basically they end up here they the police are obviously very suspicious he's turning himself in so they know that scotty's involved but they really want Michelle in here.

They really talk about this black dress a lot. They have some emails and everything like that, but they're, they're not positive about Michelle, but they're going, they talked to her. The one detective said, quote,

she's cold, ice cold about fad and about shit like that. That's Michelle. Also was talking about cremating fads remains and that wasn't what was the plan so there was a problem there and there was a basically there was a power struggle and what they were going to do with fads remains and shit with the family and uh it turns into a goddamn mess until they decide to tell you what. We have all these emails. We have Scotty getting out saying he did it, saying he was having an affair with Michelle.

Let's make this easy and just arrest both of them. So the police arrest Scotty and Michelle before the funeral, by the way. She does not get to go to the funeral at all. The district attorney said about michelle quote she's one of the most evil people i've ever dealt with in all my years as a prosecutor sounds like it that's a lot yeah that's very evil i would say i would say so but it's spotty evidence i don't know it's but they feel bad they have evidence of her that could ambiguous evidence is what it is it's very ambiguous of her i mean they have scotty

saying that's what she wanted me to do yeah uh but outside of that they don't have any outside of the written evidence but i mean he's a coke conspirator here but i mean going back to earlier point too what what did she what does he what does she expect him to be doing do you know i mean telling him go go do this he's not going to go tell him that you want a divorce the only answer is i have to go murder him i'll give him a knife and tell him that fucking you've been fucking his wife that's a weird yeah that's gonna get me hurt yeah that's the thing it's it's crazy so they're both charged with murder this uh state says they uh will seek the death penalty against both of them oh boy oh boy. Oh, boy. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, I would say.

So their daughters end up staying with Thad's mom and dad. They do that here. Michelle, not at the funeral, obviously. She's in jail. They're both denied bond, obviously. They're fucking facing the death penalty. So the problem is they get into jail, and you would think, okay, the affair's over. You wouldn't have any interest in this person anymore.

Instead, what they do is they find an inmate that's going to be released soon. And they set up a scheme with this inmate to where the inmate will do a three-way calling thing so they can talk to each other once the inmate gets on the outside. Problem is, the inmate is also a jailhouse snitch and is doing this while it's all recorded and setting them up completely. So there's recordings of these idiots from prison thinking they're getting away with something. Yeah, at one point, they said, at one point, he says,

they also, several times i wonder how portland is this time of year and shit like that so they're not they don't feel bad about it it doesn't seem like at one point she he says what are you wearing and she says orange this is pretty funny you know oh baby it's hot yeah they're talking but they're talking about how they're gonna get married and they're gonna they love each other and they love you so much and i've never loved anybody as much as i love you and where the don't you know that i love you and i love you and they go back and forth and they're just listening in the whole time going this is great just keep it going yeah at one point they exchange letters to in prison uh one point she sends him a letter that is uh bible

verses with words underlined in it. And those words that are underlined make a message. She sends him that. She's not necessarily the Zodiac. No, it's definitely not. You don't need a code breaker for this one, exactly. The first thing you do is, well, let's start with the underline. Oh, that's it?

I think we cracked it, you guys. That's a pretty good code here. We can send the guys underline oh that's it i think we cracked it that's a pretty good code here we can send the guys back to mit i don't think we need them start with the and the underline words are all i knew was that you were going to speak to him about us help me if a man would give for love that's what she says unreal so jesus she's playing the innocent role here but then they find out a few days after she's arrested or i mean a few days after the whole phone scheme comes to an end uh that she had taken also uh that has an insurance policy it's going to pay her about 250 000 wow that's portland money there or a quarter of the way to a fucking bed and breakfast here uh so yeah this is uh this is very fucking interesting uh this whole deal

they're they're talking about they found a jc penny bag that was uh in the it department server room in floyd medical center a jc penny bag inside it was scott's bloody clothes oh his shoes oh the knife oh and even the receipt for the knife from kmart oh my god everything man it's just a it's just a a fucking murder conviction kit yeah it's like a happy meal with a special murder conviction toy at his desk there you go jesus christ yeah the da said quote i've never had a case where somebody gave me not only the receipt from buying the murder weapon but packaged it up along with what they were wearing the time they did it that is pretty and put it under their driver's seat of their own vehicle that's pretty amazing here and then they got the security camera tape from

kmart showing him buying the hunting knife and all that so they have everything not only they have a receipt they have a video and him and then a bag and then blood on it and it's it's pretty clear here oh boy now in none of the emails were the words kill fad for me please thank you like that that was never any kill but they assume that that was probably in between emails and maybe she didn't put that in writing uh because at some point like the sunday evening before the murder he wrote her quote stop me if you have any hesitations and she says i'm ready please be observant or of your surroundings and be careful which doesn't that is is don't get caught well that's what i mean that doesn't sound like she's

telling him to go talk to that no just be careful be observant of your surroundings why would you say that there's no expectation at the end of this that he's just gonna come home and file divorce and that that's the thing right well and then at the end of that sentence she says be observant of your surroundings and be careful i can't wait to be your bride oh that's what she says so it's it's not good here and there's a big uh there's a lot of backlash against her in the community too people are fucking pissed at her sure that's uh that is not great now uh uh yeah so she jesus christ she's in there uh her daughters are 13 7 5 and 2 at this point the dead father and mother in jail by the way 13 dead father that's familiar isn't it yeah yeah she just put that cycle it over again worse than that she made

four children have neither parent neither it's over that's the thing that's it uh fuck page keeps custody of her kids obviously uh that's the way that goes so they seek there's an interesting thing here for that or i'm sorry scotty has like four and a half years of of uh a pre-trial shit really there's appeals of of motions it's crazy and they can't try michelle until that's all settled too so it's all it goes for years we're talking from 2004 to 2007 there's a grand jury man's got a bag that says i killed a guy on it in it fucking a receipt that's here's a receipt for my death yeah yeah so uh they also the big thing is it's a the the search of the desk the bag that was found at his job they're saying that that was an illegal search, basically.

That's the fight for years, is whether they were allowed to do that, the search of his laptop and everything like that. Finally, after four years, in 2008, they end up letting in all of this shit. So, Scotty says, I guess I plead guilty. Without that, I want to talk about it. With it, no question. without that i want to talk about it with it never mind his lawyer says quote i think he feels very responsible for the death of thad reynolds since they let all that evidence in does he yeah uh he feels very guilty about it ashamed about it and i think he was relieved

to be able to come to court and accept responsibility for it today relieved i don't know if that's it uh yeah so a part of the deal, he will have to testify against Michelle. That's how that works. And also as part of the deal that he makes, the state will not seek the death penalty against Michelle. Oh, so he's saving her life, saving her life in this whole thing. I'll testify against her, but not if you fucking kill her. Yeah, that's the way it works. Yeah, that's it.

So, yeah, he says there's nothing i can say to undo what was done he says uh apologizes to his ex-wife and his daughters because page divorced him by now yeah and he says i'm ashamed of the things that i did and thought in 2004 and the judge says you sir may fuck off life without the possibility of parole. Wow. Judge gets him good. Every second that he can give him, he gave it every goddamn minute there. Yeah.

He says they get his confession. And yeah, she says that he, on the tape here, she asked me, she said, when you, when you, when you talk with that,

what if it gets ugly? And I asked her, I said, well, what do you, let me ask your perspective, what if it gets ugly? And I asked her, I said, well, what do you, let me ask your perspective, what if it gets ugly? And then she told him to do what he needs to do, and then she ended up saying I love you and all this type of shit.

So it sounded like it was like he's saying I was under the impression she wanted me to kill Thad. That's what she said. She never said, hey, kill Thad, but it was always like you're gonna get rid of Thad, right? And then we could move away and be together and there's no logical anything else yeah the only answer is if you want me to be your bride you have to outlive him do it do what yeah that's the fucking thing so it's exactly what it is so the fuck man this all goes to court

obviously uh he is going to uh he going to, he says what he did. He said, I had blood all over me. That's what Scotty says. Quote, I had blood all over me. I changed clothes. There's other people going to be coming in. I'm not just going to leave bloody clothes and a knife sitting out. I just put them under the floor.

If there's a raised floor data center where we had our servers, you can pull up the tiles. And that's where it was. So, yeah, he says that that's what he did he then went to the er got stitches for the knife wound on his hand you know 19 times that's tends to happen um so he says he talks about how he uh you know she told me the day before where he was going to be and all that sort of thing so michelle is pretty fucked here midway through the trial she decides she wants to plea she's had it here they let her plea to voluntary manslaughter and burglary that's what she pleased to okay uh they give her you ma'am may fuck off uh 20 years in prison for her minus the five years she's already served in jail. What?

So there's that. This is as of 2008. She used to have no contact with her children as well. That's part of it. None. Now, the way this whole thing, she takes that. So she says, quote, morally, I had the affair. I feel responsible because had I not had the affair,

this wouldn't have happened. And I'm deeply sorry that so many people were hurt and that i've heard a lot of people that's all she said that was her her allocution there okay so uh yeah the 2010 this case was on dateline and uh it was they made a big huge dramatic deal out of it obviously and uh he says at this point scotty harper says he's not covering for michelle on dateline said there's nothing to cover her uh nothing to protect her from the truth is i did this i see no guilt on her part i really don't so by 2010 now all of a sudden it's all him and yeah that's it um you're not gonna be able to fuck her again man stop, that's it. You're not going to be able to fuck her again, man.

Stop it. Stop covering for her. Maybe someday. She's a monster. So is he. They're both fucking terrible people here. So in September of 2014, the way the DA put it, she's the brains, he's the muscle. He's definitely not the brains.

That's true. September of 2014,elle goes to court to try to get uh permission to see her kids now her one daughter is over 18 now so the judge decides that that daughter still hasn't been allowed to see her mother at all so the judge decides that that daughter is allowed to go visit michelle if she wants to and the state's trying to say no and the judge is like it's a grown woman i can't tell her she can't go talk to somebody ridiculous yeah we can't we're not protecting a grown woman the other three kids though she's not allowed to see till they're 18 they can once they're 18 they can all go petition this year or not is the way it works or she can

petition for them to see her however it works here so uh yeah she's in jail there uh the kids uh the kids say that uh uh the district attorney said quote like it or not if she decides to go over there every day i don't think that can be stopped about the daughter she's like i'd like the daughter to not fucking do it want to go see the mother nothing i can do about it what are you supposed to do here so uh michelle has already uh passed her first parole date in early 2012 they selected 2014 as her tentative parole date there uh but in 2012 they reviewed new information and they said you know what let's postpone that uh you can have a parole date in 2023 oh shit so she's still in there and will be for at least another three years

they told her 11 more years 11 more years wow yeah and if you see her in court somehow she turned into looking just like kellyanne conway i don't know how the fuck that happened but uh i say that's a fitting yeah a fitting end for someone who's kind of a dick maybe god is an awesome god maybe who knows is well i'll get in my prayer closet and find out he deserves it but that is uh that's that she's sitting there till at least 2023 scotty harper's in there forever four little very confused girls poor bastards three now well by now they're all adults i think so it doesn't matter but it's still fucking terrible it's horrible and uh that is rome georgia and a goddamn mess of a case.

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Seattle, very low tickets there, so get your tickets to that. Come out and see us. We really, really have a great time at these live shows. We try to give the best damn live podcast show on the market. That's our goal. We will say that. We'll put that up against anybody that our fucking live show is funnier than any other live podcast out there.

That's what we try to do, especially something like a true crime related one. They don't know how to do it. We do. So come see us. We have a great goddamn time and we do all that follow us on social media so you can get updates about shit like live shows you can do that at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook at small town murder on instagram check us out in all those different places now the important thing if you want to be a hero

yeah good lord i hear just a heroic you're like Batman, but better. Because you don't grumble like Christian Bale. You're literally saving lives. You're saving lives. If you're just the best people in the world, our producers of the show, good God do we love them so much. You can become one of these people so easily by going to patreon.com slash crimeandsports. Or heading over to PayPal and using our email address, crimeandsports at g patreon.com slash crime and sports or heading over to paypal and using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com and you can get to both of those places how jimmy

over at shut up and give me murder.com you are goddamn right now it's at this point i would love for you to tell me all of the return these names to me like a hunting knife jimmy hit me with them now this week's executive producers are jordan bennett uh again thank you jordan and she everything she saved a man's life at her i heard that and then she got an award for it and she's fucking so depressed about getting an award you're awesome she's very much like me where she doesn't want attention but she got it nonetheless so good for you jordan uh jenny neighbors uh lorenda lieber tanya volanek who by the way every week gives you're so sweet to us thank you so much it's it's it's just it's flattering thank you thank you naima shea donated both ways uh through uh paypal and then uh signed up on

patreon also thank you and she's been around before and then she came back uh which is we appreciate it thank you uh murphy productions i don't know what that is uh if you need And she's been around before and then she came back, which is fantastic to see. Thank you, Naomi. Murphy Productions. I don't know what that is. If you need productions of some sort, I'm sure Murphy can handle it. They're going to produce the shit out of you. Yeah, fuck yeah. Jeremy Brown, Ashley Kuland, and Nate Brown. I don't know if Nate and Jeremy are related.

Other producers this week are Ian Phillips, Padrage Murphy, another Murphy. Marion? Yeah, Marion Mosa or Moja? What did I do? I think it's Mosa or Mora. Fuck. One of those. Thank you, Marion.

Sabrina Crawford, Josefina Welsh, Chrissy McDonald, ML. I don't know what that is, but I do know her first name is Marin. Thank you. Pandora's Jar, not Box. Jason Covert. Andrea Watson. Chris Dunbar. Yeah, that's a Dunbar.

I think, yeah, that's Dunbar. Anthony Troffer or Troffer. Andrea Watson. I said that. Teddy Gingerish or Gingerich. I'm not sure which. I don't know. Alicia Stewart.

Curtain. Curtain. Is that Curtain? Cortain. Singleton? I think it's Cortin. It might not be. Snoopy Noodle.

I don't know which that is. I think that's a first name or a last. It's both. It's literally each. Julia Hooks. Emily McGinn. Jason Freeman's girlfriend's birthday is this week. And he did not give her name, which is hysterical.

Give my girlfriend a shout out. Sure. Well, it'd be helpful if you knew her name. I hope Jason Freeman's girlfriend knows who she is. Kaylee Graff, Ricky Lawrence, Katie Turner, Snoop and Shmoopy McBoop, Alan Gonzalez, Sarah Weehee, Ethan Swan, Jingle Bella All The Way. Festive. Yeah, it is. Sarah Waihe, Ethan Swan, Jingle Bella All The Way, Ashley Hamilton, Jay McFarland, Jesse Myers, Zach Greif, Gwen Van Veen, Casey Crow, Quincy Bones, Emily Stafford, Andrea Boyle, Ben Stanton, Santa Stefan, Santa Stefan, their real name uh emily stafford andrea boyle ben stanton santa steven stant santa's uh santa stefan jennifer store storzik uh adam apple yeah you there you go bud yeah it's usually on the first one but i got you back uh hunter turner cynthia to takataka takajous takajewy. I don't know. Susan Watkins. Kyle Galkin.

Brent Keister. I hope not. That's brutal. Yeah. But it's a name. It's something. Dana Downing. Johanna, with no last name.

Laura Mains. Ashley Kuhland. I said that. She's doing both. Thank you, Ashley. Thank you. Yeah, she is. That's right.

Jared Price. Tanner Ford. Chance Hogan. Nick Reynolds. Adam Carpenter, Bronson White. Oh, Bronson White, Rhino Hicks. That's what that is. Tyler Russell, Alex Casella, Jesse Bowman, Chris Holtz. I had to look at the email for that. Brandi Huston or Houston, Jake Hulk, Krista and Kyle Lamke, E-bitch uh amy star j uh jen crenshaw yes uh stacy watson

jeremy brown elizabeth rivera kate no keith keith westfall tanya newman jeff deluca yep uh laney potts page uh panta panta what is that pat now Patinod. Do you have the one where somebody said, they donated and said, I don't know what this is, but it's what my daughter wanted for Christmas, so here's money. They're like, thank you. I saw that, and I have a name, but it didn't give her name. The daughter still has the best message ever. Marshall Tomey, Emily Vetney, Jamie Trenda, Jimmy Chambers, Claire Olena. I think that's right.

Olena? Olena. Could be an Irish one. Tara, Reagan Schalke, Susanna Platt, Sheila, Shelia, Hines, Gretchen Harrison, Spencer Arnold, Nathan Deal, Carl Bittner, Karen Edgen, Tim Blankenship, Brad Bock Aeronautics, Belinda Reid. She's the one that came all the way from Australia and then donated again this week. Thank you. Gary Howard, Tanner Ray, Amanda Winter, Mandy Peterson, Ronnie Kumar, Sarah Firestone. I hope that's of the tire fortune.

I hope that's of the tire fortune. Thank you so much for coming out in Chicago, Lauren. Good to see you, Lauren. You're fantastic. Danielle Wood. Kimberly Westenberg. Yeah. Fuck. Neerady.

Neerady. Chris Lago. Nope. Probably not. Luis Rayfield on a Moscatoato galley uh richard lawrence brooke lopeman peggy vigu uh david barnhart uh emma clark chris edwards jude kendall fuck head of sorenson tony francesco not francisco nathan little alicia uh simonuk simunek uh kim novak robin anderson tracy mitchell george geosopolis uh daniel mater or matier uh thomas smith ryan sim

robin throckmorton taylor seaman uh jesse hartman again sharon harvey andrea samples steven rude the guy is a fucking man thank, thank you Stephen Liz Vasquez again and thanks for sending us a huge box Keith Nevereaux Jackie Sukup Stephanie Igoa Ashley Veo Brendan Ables, Joseph

Blenis, rhymes with penis Peyton Meadows and real quickly through the people send me these little messages and I like to just get them all in. Delivery truck drivers, UPS letter carriers, truck drivers, and the real Santas. Thank you guys so much for what you guys do this week. Joe Eilerman is nine years cancer-free. Congratulations.

Hey, congrats, brother. Keep it going. Lucas Carleone had a baby, and so did his significant other, I imagine. Yeah, probably. Not just him. Willow Earp is the baby and antonia and marvin crack thank you guys so much for everything you do and all of our patreon supporters you guys are heroes thank you everybody so much good lord you guys are the just

the best we appreciate everything you've done for us and especially you guys seem to have been spending extra sending a little extra over the holidays too and shit and that's sick man thank you guys it's amazing. We really, really appreciate being a part of your existence and your ear holes when you're doing shit. Thank you, guys. Even if you're preparing holiday meals and you're listening to us and stuff, that's kind of neat. That's going to be your holiday memory. Us telling dick jokes about murder.

And that makes us feel good. We put baby dicks in your Christmas. Baby dicks in your christmas baby dicks in your christmas james and jimmy putting baby dicks in your christmas since 2016 that's right so jimmy what if people wanted to sprinkle some baby dicks on your holiday how could they you can do that at wisman sucks wh isma and sucks on twitter instagram and snapchat please do not uh snap or tweet me baby dicks no i would rather you do not do that don't have pictures of baby dicks you put those on the facebook page absolutely where can they find you you can find me at jimmy p is funny or just copy and paste my name from the show

description to make it easy on yourself to try to spell everything uh that's very easy to do like that and there's no more from us man this is i hope you guys enjoy your holiday spend time with your families do all that stuff have a good time hug your kids hug your kids or smack them it depends on how good they've been i don't know whatever don't murder their parents don't murder each other that's what we request for the holidays for us you want to give us a gift don't murder each other that's said everybody until next week it's been our pleasure hey prime members you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.