Small Town Murder - #152 - Taming The Beast in Shelton, Washington

Episode Date: January 2, 2020

This week, in Shelton, Washington, when a brutal murder is discovered in a woman's home, the police have very little to go on, except a mysterious, one-shoed man, found wandering the highway, in an older woman's housecoat. What unravels is one of the most insane explanations ever offered, in the history of the planet earth. In the end, the case makes history, and precedent. Pure crazy!! Along the way, we find out that every town wants to claim Christmas as their own, that wearing one shoe is way crazier than wearing no shoes, and that saying that God told you to do what you did might not be the worst excuse!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts#150 # See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Shelton, Washington, when a bloody scene is discovered in a woman's home, the only thing police have to go on is a

mysterious shoeless man found wandering the highway. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Westmuth. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us in the new year. Yeah.

This is going to be, we're recording this on New Year's Day. We are. Yeah, this is our holiday. We're're going to spend it january 1 i'm here we are here that's right and we have such a crazy story for you this is we're going to kick the new year off with pure insane right this good the the subject this week or the the ends up being the murderer really uh makes our pocket robin guy look like he's could probably pull it together sometime soon compared to in comparison to this shift leader. Yeah, he's going to be he could he would he'd be the shift leader of this guy. This guy's definitely a crew member, though, on his team here. So, yeah, we'll get to that in a second. Thank everybody.

First of all, thank you so much for all of you done for us this week. Your reviews, Apple podcast, that purple icon. We don't know why they count for anything. It's weird. We would just love it to say, hey, don't worry about it. Just listen to the show. For some reason, though,

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they're forcing me to do this. They are. I think they're outside right now. Yeah. They just knocked on my window. By the way, we are. Look outside.

So do that, please. That helps a lot. Also, if you do that on Stitcher, that also helps for some reason. So please do that. Also, shut up and give me murder.com. Everything small town murder and crime and sports related and if you're not listening to crime and sports get it together

and listen to crime and sports it's really not about sports it's really more about idiots change your day change your day it's gets a lot of fun it's like this except with an athlete instead of a red more drugs more oh boy yeah there's drugs there's murder there's all sorts of craziness so check that out merchandise all sorts of craziness. So check that out. Merchandise. All sorts of new stuff up. Most of all, though, tickets to live shows. Holy cow.

We got them coming up next month. Denver and Salt Lake City are sold out. Donezo. They're done. But on February 15th and 16th, we are in Indianapolis, Indiana, and Louisville, Kentucky. And both of those have tickets available. And then in March, we're in San Francisco for two nights, two late shows. How cool is that?

Come out and see Small Town Murder at 10 o'clock at night. That's awesome, man. So I'm very excited for that. In a fun town. In a fun town. Boston's just about sold out. Seattle, you're gone. I think there's five tickets left.

They're all singles. Portland, that second show, is almost gone, too. So get those tickets now. New York's so fast. And if you're in those towns and you're thinking about coming and you don't have any we go with fucking come yeah you can go solo it's the coolest thing in the world it is because everybody there it's it's an out it's a gathering once everyone sits down you're not in your little group anymore you're in a gathering it's a bunch of people it's a very weird thing it's like a it's like a weird like i feel like this is what grateful dead fans must

have felt like we're just gonna go and hang out yeah yeah it's a like-minded folks here we're all gonna chill and it's gonna be fun less drugs probably at our shows a little bit a little bit well not less drugs in the actual place outside you guys do whatever you guys drugs happening definitely definitely so get those if you want to be a hero of ours and also be a producer one of the people who keep the lights on and keep everything rolling along smoothly and really our heroes our producers who we talk about at the end of the show you can do that extremely easily by going over to patreon.com slash crime in sports or head over to paypal and use our email address crime in sports at gmail.com and uh every everything you guys do for us is very very appreciated we will have patreon bonuses in the new year uh plenty

of them at least one a month, if not more. And we'll try to do cases and different things. Prisoner dating games and all sorts of different stuff. I love those. Yeah, we have a good time. And so do that. Join the team. With that said, it's time to do the disclaimer. Okay.

It's a comedy podcast. We still have to. It's episode 152. It's the new year, but we still have to do the old disclaimer. It's a comedy show. We're comedians. We're going to make jokes. Okay? The people are going to die. They are. It's called Small Town Murder but we still have to do the old disclaimer. It's a comedy show. We're comedians. We're going to make jokes. Okay?

People are going to die. They are. It's called small town murder. This shouldn't shock you. I assume that's why you're listening. So, you know what I mean? You're okay with that. So, it's called small town murder.

People are going to die. We make fun of things. There's a lot to make fun of around a crazy case. We didn't do it. We didn't do it. And we can't bring anyone back from the dead either. That's the other thing. What we can do is go out of our way to not make fun of the victims or the victims' families

because we're assholes. What? But we're not scumbags. Now you're talking. So if that sounds good to you, then great. We're going to have a good time. If you think true crime and comedy should never go together, this isn't for you, probably. I mean, you could give it a chance.

We're not probably as terrible as you think we are. But if not, if you don't want to take the chance, that's good. We don't want to hear anyone a chance. We're not, we're not probably as terrible as you think we are, but you know, if not, if you don't want to take the chance, that's good. We don't want to hear anyone complain afterwards. So have a good one. The rest of you ready to hear a crazy story.

I think it's time to sit back and shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's go on a trip. Jimmy, what do you say? Yeah, let's do this. We're coming from the Midwest. We're in Indiana last week.

Vincennes. Vincennes,iana last week is to be extremely specific and uh we are heading out to the west coast this week we were hanging around the east coast for a while and back and forth up the eastern seaboard now we're gonna go shoot out west to washington state yeah uh i might love washington home of trees and legal weed right and, meth, meth. I don't love the meth, but there's a lot of it outside the city. Seattle's one of those places I feel like, or it's not Seattle, Washington. It's one of those places where I feel like people in Seattle think of it like New York State. People in New York City think of it like there's this, and then the rest of it is West Virginia.

There's us, and then there's Olympia. Everything else is Olympia. Lock your doors when you get out of the city. Lock your doors, because the meth monsters out there are going to get you. So this is in western central Washington. It's like south of Seattle. It's a county from the Pacific, basically. Got it.

It's a county inland. This is meth country, Jimmy. This would be, instead of like the marlboro man this is marlboro country with like a hat a cowboy hat and a duster on this is like a guy with no teeth and scabs on his face talks with a whistle he talks with a whistle and he's like you know smoking a cigarette buddy found on the ground and not not not when he just freshly lit it's like smashed and has sneaker marks on it he's smoking that that. I just saw a guy do that recently. Welcome to meth country. We all have.

That's very common. Very recent. In a city. Oh, yeah. We were there. If you spend any time in a city, you're going to find that. Yeah, he asked me for a lighter,

and I was like, I don't got one, man. So he got one, and then he turns around with literally a quarter of an inch of a cigarette to go. And it's smashed. Yeah.

Like half the tobacco's out of it. What are you smoking? There's some good hits in this filter left. I just handed him what was left of mine. I was like, smoke this, bro. I'm sorry. Dude, please. I don't trust whatever that is.

Jesus, who knows how long that's been there. That's been snowed on. This is what we're talking about. The meth country, like we said. What kind of hat would they wear? It's a cowboy hat. it's got holes in it it's yeah i feel like it's like a propeller beanie that's like been run over by a car three times one blade on it they found it on the ground and stuck it on their meth head so uh this is uh shelton though is is definitely this area's meth country it's on

the edge of a panhandle too this is on the edge of a handle not necessarily a panhandle but it juts out at the bottom of washington does that right oh yeah it's well this is kind of the western central part we're around the sound there where it comes up uh it's about an hour and 25 minutes to seattle you go around the water about two hours and 10 minutes to portland you head down south and then an hour and 45 minutes to Clearview, Washington, which was episode 113, which we did on April 3rd of 2019. So it's been like eight months since we've been there. This is in Mason County. So zip code 98584, area code 360. It's six square miles.

It's not a good area code. It's just one of the last zip codes. 9-8? The northwestern part of the state. We're about out. Sorry. That's it. Starts with zero in the northeast, and now it's like, well, shit.

We're almost done. The UK. Hawaii. Fuck. I don't know. They got 999s? Give them an extra digit, guys, because we ran out of shit. Start over.

I don't know. Alaska, they don't need mail up there. I don't know. It's just- Turn the odometer over and add a number. Tie it to a moose and slap him on the ass and send him on his way. Here you go. The Alaskan mail system.

Enjoy. It's the Moose Express. Fuck the ponies. So this is a six square mile town. So it's not that big of a town. It has two mottos. These are actual two real mottos here. None of mine no uh no well

mine would be welcome to meth country i feel like that's their motto there but theirs is evergreen city because they're very green it's a lot of trees six square miles we're gonna go with city they're trying all right or here's the other one christmas town usa oh you assholes christmas town usa isn't there a santa claus like there's a santa claus georgia that we've covered there's this they call this the christmas tree capital of the world now okay which would i would assume there'd probably be a lot of christmas tree farming going on up here but if this is christmas town usa and they embrace that shit i just found out to make a christmas tree they go to the top of a very tall tree and top the top the top off yeah i didn't know that was how they did it well yeah i thought you just had like farms growing eight foot trees different ones like that because there are

farms where you'd like to cut your own ones where they do that on purpose but i think like the industrial thing is yeah you're just lopping tops off the next year you got more tops to lop off i imagine yeah i've never i didn't realize i guess it makes sense yeah every year fucking 150 million christmas trees would be like we have no more forest every year we're just decimated we would be using oak trees by now just i put a palm tree in my living also 200 is a screaming deal for a tree that they to get an eight foot tree that's probably how much water do you have how much water would you have to be used to put into that more than 200 worth of water probably so yeah that's a deal that's just now we're talking god damn it you grew it just for me just for me huh thanks unbelievable so shelton here is incorporated in 1890 it's named after

david shelton who i know is a hero to all of us. Not Blake? No, when we were kids, obviously, the David Shelton posters on our walls, you know, very, very important. I still have his card. Well, he was a delegate to the territorial legislature. And I know how you are with these territorial legislatures. These delegates, it's like they were heroes to some kids back in the day, like cowboys were their heroes or sports figures. There's a reason it sounds so close to delicate. It's near and dear.

It was right there. Right there. It's named for him. He served as a delegate to the territorial legislature. This town was originally known as Sheltonville. And they were like, why? Fucking drop the ville. What are we doing here?

There's no other Shelton in this country. Ville makes it sound smaller. I think they wanted it to beille makes it sound smaller, too. I think they wanted it to be like, because a lot of city, city. They want this. They're pretending like they got something here. Since Dr. Seuss, I think everybody else should just drop Ville from everything. Yeah.

It makes it sound stupid. Except for Louisville, where we'll be February 16th. You should buy your tickets now. Louisville's a good one. You can keep that. If it's got a baseball bat named after it, keep it. That's fine. Everybody else, drop it. That's now. Louisville's a good one. You can keep that. If it's got a baseball bat named after it, keep it. That's fine. Everybody else, drop it.

That's right. So Shelton and his wife, Frances Shelton, they had their family there. They had a farm at the head of Oakland Bay in 1853. And Shelton, at this point, is basically kind of cut off from shit back when they first started. It's served by a fleet of steamboats that they have that bring supplies in and shit. It's easier than going around. Apparently, it's tough territory back in the day. A bunch of these boats would come in the economy.

They built it around, as you might imagine, not meth back then, actually, which is a weed growing or anything. They around. And this is this is out of their like towns, historical thing. The economy was built around quote, logging, farming, dairying,

uh, ranching as well as oyster cultivation. Is that right? Yeah. There's all, cause it's the sound right there. So you can get some oysters going on and, uh,

I don't think I knew that. Yeah. Up here. They're the less briny oysters cause they're in the sound. They're closer to the East Coast ones. You get the saltier oysters. They're so good. Fucking love oysters.

They're the best thing ever. Oh, my God. They're so good. You can eat them all day. I mean, you never get full. No, you can't. No. Well, I did once.

You never feel gross. One time I went to the, I was probably 22, we went to the Rio in Vegas, the Rio buffet. Oh, God, Jesus. You ate what? Okay, the Rio buffet in Vegas. The Rio buffet. Oh, God. Jesus. You ate what? Okay. The Rio buffet in Vegas. You did a Vegas buffet of oysters. Well, the Rio buffet, it was back then.

I don't know if it was a long time ago, but the buffet was really good. They had good shit. It was probably, it was Vegas and it was July. It was probably 112 degrees outside. Oh, my God. So I ate, I don't know, three oysters yeah and uh a bunch of other shit lobster tails and all this stuff i really loaded it i was fucking really high as a kite and i was a bunch of shit that lives in the water i went outside smoke we came back in and finished up like i was i was

a serious businessman in this the buffet was like 50 bucks and that was not easy money to come by at the time so i'm getting my money's worth so i ate so much and then we were like let's go walk around oh and so now it's 112 and i have 36 oysters fighting in my stomach just absolutely going wait this heat is not okay we need to be refrigerated holy shit i've never had to sit down and just go more in my life to not throw up fucking half of the ocean the grossest outside of the new york new york because that's what happened oh my god disgusting that's a long walk from the rio oh we didn't walk there we ended up taking a sweet price now we ended up going to the old strip for some reason and it has that over, which makes it way hotter in the summer.

I'm walking around, so not only is it 112 outside, it's under this dome where it's like humid because they have misters on. I was literally like blinking. I can't walk anymore. I went in like the Four Queens or some shitty place and sat down at a slot machine for a minute just to catch my breath. It was bad stuff. Good Lord, man. Thank you for those wonderful oysters, Washington State. That's what I'm getting at. a slot machine for a minute just to catch my breath it was bad stuff so uh good lord thank

you for those wonderful oysters washington state that's what i'm getting at i love them though so i think i'm gonna stick with a dozen from now on after that doesn't that's gross three dozen just if it's over 100 degrees out you maybe want to keep it down your oyster consumption down a little bit share a dozen share a dozen or eat a dozen just don't eat three dozen and then have five lobster tails on top of it and then say fuck it i want some lamb too let's walk to lamb yeah i was i don't know what i was thinking that was it was back in the day when it was like well i'm you know i'm gonna get my i was like 22 i'm getting my money's worth god damn it i can eat as much as i want my body can do it and walk around gross Now I would just go to bed if I ate all that.

I'm going to bed now. Thank you. I'd put some of that in Tupperware. Some Snapware. Some nice Snapware and throw that in the fridge. How have I matured? Well, now I'd bring Tupperware. So much more mature.

Bring a Ziploc and throw it in the Snapware. Take care of that shit later jesus christ so yeah shelton here they had the the simpson timber mill was a big deal here they had a lot of a lot of timber going on here as well so everything they're getting from the water getting from the earth and shit like that here so uh they have different forms of government that i don't really care about i want to get in don't even want to get into here. But it was the last city in Washington to use a mayor slash commission form of government, apparently. And then in November of 2017, they adopted a different form of government.

So there's that. So in 1970, they put out a history of Shelton. And this is from a history of it from back in the day it's a quote from this timber brought the influx of a new proud breed drastically affecting settlements in the county these people came looking for work not land men came to test their stamina against the forest their stomachs with logging camp chow oh jesus that sounds test your stomach with log that i think they just needed work. I don't think they were like, I want to test my metal against the force. See if I can beat the forest while keeping shitty food down.

I don't think that was the same many oysters I can cry. And then go outside and chop trees down. I don't think that was the fucking. I think they were like, there's work there. Walk the Vegas strip. Yeah, do that. Yeah. You fucking. Yeah.

Walk the old strip. That's right. Do that. Yeah, you fucking, yeah. Walk the old strip. Right. That's right. Go sit in binions for a minute, you fucking dirtbags. See how you like that shit. Yeah, binions. Cutting trees sounds like a vacation. Yeah, compared to that, it is.

So, yeah, the dairy industry was big here. They were into dairying. Also, some beef cattle ranches and shit like that. Any rural shit, basically. Huge fire in 1914. How many times have we said from like 1880 to 1920, half the country burned? 1914, the flames took 17 of the town's 20 stores. Wow.

They had 20 stores and 17 of them burned to the fucking ground three left so three left that's not great no that is like 85 of your stores have burned to the ground it's over that's bad shit here uh also uh the the methodist church caught fire the bank burned the vault survived though so people's money at least where it was safe there but uh yeah the the they built a hospital in 1920 that was before that they were transporting people to olympia which is you know a while away and you know the roads weren't great back then it's free highways and shit so that's that sort of thing here uh the uh they have different hospitals there now. In 1994, they're very excited because Walmart opened a 102,000 square foot store there and

gave 200 jobs. Oh. So. That pays nothing. Yeah. That's right. So, yeah. Yeah.

And Shelton also, though, is very much in terms of they have a lot of antique shops and secondhand bookstores and shit like that. Everything in Washington is like, it's so strange out there. It's like timber, meth, hippie. There's only those three things. And it's all got a musty-ass smell. Yeah, timber, meth, hippies are everywhere. Everything smells like a used book.

You're right. It all smells like that dust mite used book thing. How fucking old is this? That you got out of the basement. Right. This says copyright 84, but it smells much older. It smells like it's 1884, I feel like. And we don't mind saying this because Seattle's just about sold out.

Right. So fuck it. They know. We don't have to make them. Yeah, they know it's musty. They smell it. You smell the must, motherfuckers. If you don't, you know why? Because you're there.

Right. You need to go somewhere. Go to Idaho for like two days and come back. And then go, oh, yeah, it's a little musty. It does smell weird. Yeah. Get the smell of potatoes out of your nose. So they had, I found some reviews of this town here, which are just absolutely awesome.

Yeah. And yeah, people are very, I don't know if they're not, they're not real excited about this place. Let's talk about it here. People are very, I don't know if they're not real excited about this place. Let's talk about it here. One guy says he lists crime statistics, which we'll talk about later. But he says, below are the crime statistics on Shelton, Washington, compared to the national average. Several things you can count on in Shelton is an increase in crime, homeless living everywhere, and it's going to rain.

So that's Washington. It's too bad the area is a beautiful place full of many outdoor activities and within one to two hours away from the cities one star for that i have another one star review quote shelton is a small town stuck in the mud that's the best way to describe it people like it that way from what i can tell it's stuck in time between an old town appearance but infiltrated with modern day druggies. Old rundown homes in some places and absolutely nothing downtown, but a couple of okay restaurants and a few decent shops. It has a dilapidated Safeway. Well, then, you're now reviewing the town's grocery store.

You can't, I mean. You've resorted to being very petty. It has a dilapidated Safeway. That's the last non-updated store in safeways inventory this guy did he go to the safeway yeah like archive all right he went to safeway.com and said i want to see a full map of all your remodels and there's one dot not in fucking green there's one dot still in red and it's his town he's like i knew it i fucking knew it everywhere else in the entire country remodeled except for this son of a bitch uh yes so last non-updated

store up on the hill is walmart and fred meyer which is another grocery store with with a strip of stores that's called a strip mall right uh the regular fast food places, and several banks and gas stations. Basically, Shelton is simply a place for most people in Mason County to get their groceries, do banking, and grab a bite to eat. That's it. It's the logistical support hub for the county and thousands that live well outside the city limits.

So you're going to get some shit-kicking meth-fucking people who are going to come to this town to re-up their supplies, basically, and then back into the forest with them to, I don't even know. Yeah, it's one of those. And here's another one-star review. This one's a little shorter.

It's just easy here. Quote, Shelton is a horrible place to live. It's the least diverse place I've been in a while. The schools are trash, and the people are very rude and arrogant. Arrogant? What are you arrogant about?

Everybody? It rains every day. Just fucking puffing out your chest. What are you arrogant about? I smell the least like musk of anyone in town. We have the best old book smelling place ever.

Those dust mites. Fuck, man. That's amazing. So population of this town town it's gone through some fluctuations here it got to its really lowest in the 1900s in 1920 they were down to 984 people oh shit that was after that fire yeah a lot of people just left they're like well fuck it town burned down and they just left three stores isn't gonna feed everybody no but by 1930 they had 3 000 people yeah they've been going up and up and up.

And they've been holding steady for a little while. And now it's kind of shot up recently. Yeah, that Walmart. Seattle's very expensive. Yeah. I want you to put a Walmart in. I mean, they're going to flock. They're here.

People in this town now, population is 9,882. Wow. So it's decent. Up 36% since 1990. So they've got to feel like that's expensive cities, people fleeing to less expensive places. Male population well above the female. It's like almost 53% male, which is not normal. If anything, it's usually a few more females.

So I don't know if that's logging. I don't know what that is there. But who knows? All the fucking Walmart. They're sexist, too. Damn it. They got a Walmart now. Let's go, fellas.

Come on, Ted, Bill, Tom. Hop in the truck. We're going. We're all moving. We're moving there. Leave your wives. We're moving by ourselves. There's only 9,000 people.

Well, shit. We're damn sure going to get through and out of there fast. No shit. The lines at this Walmart are ridiculous. So, so, so. Well, of course, they only got one cashier so that hurts they got 20 they lined up 25 registers but it's just one person all working that annoys the motherfucker out of me why did you set this up why is this why does this exist why'd you set up the infrastructure you bought all of these electronics imagine there was 30 lanes on the freeway and one was open. That's ridiculous.

But there was no work being done on any of the other ones. Just got it funneled down to one. Oh, I'd kill somebody. I'd choke a life out of somebody. God, all the kid demographics are high. All the old people demographics are low here. But then like in the surrounding areas, it's different. It flips.

The old people are high. So if you live kind of in the rural areas, you don't move away. You stay there until you die. But here, younger people move here and have kids because they can afford it, I feel like. That's the vibe I'm getting. It's only 35% married here, too. Really? Normally 50-50.

Yeah, so it's single people with children, 30%, which is double the average. So a lot of single with kids here. Race of this town, 74% white, 0.4% black. Wow. Not a lot of black people there at all. 1.2% Asian. That's like an hour and a half from Seattle. That's in Washington.

That's like not a lot of Asian people at all there. And we have 19% Hispanicpanic here so uh now religion it's less religious than normal it's usually 50 50 here it's about 28 percent and it's a decent mixture some catholics and this and that it's just everybody no jewish people though 0.0 percent jewish 0.0 percent muslim um the the county it's a rural county uh so the county here last election 41 democrat 47 republican but almost 12 independent very interesting that is way higher than a 12 independent is it's extremely high yeah for for any anywhere unemployment rate here and we found this a lot in rural washington the other ones we've covered too 6.7 percent which

is basically double the national average it's i don't understand what's happening in rural washington but every time we've looked at these northwest rural areas yeah we're to seattle it's you know no unemployment but here yeah there's fucking homeless people everywhere well yeah yeah they're very unemployed really different level the Pacific Northwest just has a lot of homeless. Yeah. That doesn't seem like a place I'd want to be homeless at. Well, it's better than being homeless in Cleveland or Detroit. You know how fucking cold it is back there?

I don't know. You're still wet. You're wet. I see that in Portland, too. Portland has a lot of homeless people. It's crazy. I mean, weather has a lot to do with that. I would not want to be homeless in either of those places.

I think they look for places that don't get too far below freezing. Not that people are traveling there. Where would I like to relocate? It fucking snows in Washington. I'm going to grab my bindle. I would head the fuck down to California, Nevada. You see homeless people in San Diego. I'm almost like, wow, you've got it made.

You've figured it out. They don't seem quite, I don't know. It's just a different survival due to the elements isn't a pressing concern to you. So like, you know, you see, that's why I think that's where it should be. I saw homeless people in Milwaukee and I'm like, Jesus, how does it happen? How do you do it? It's how do you figure this? Terrible.

This is this. That seems harder than a nine to five. Oh, way harder. Way harder. Yeah. I'm like, Jesus, how does it happen? How do you do it? How do you figure this? Terrible. That seems harder than a nine to five. Oh, way harder. Way harder. Yeah. Holy shit. There's got to be something wrong. So jobs here, normally agriculture, forestry, fishing, and hunting is 1%. Here it's 11.5%.

So yeah, there's some outdoor jobs here, way more than normal. Other than that, it's a lot of little shops, retail trade, stuff like that. Even like the health care and social assistance stuff is lower than normal. So I don't understand that. Cost of living, 100 being average, regular par. Here it's 96.6. So it's a little bit high. It's basically on par everywhere with everywhere else.

Median home cost, 246,900. Their cost of living is 106 on that so it's a little higher than average but not too too high there are a lot of houses though between 100 and 200 000 there's about 60 of the houses are between 100 and 200 000 that's a very fair yeah there's some shit like that and we've convinced you yeah that it's that fair yeah you need to be there we have for for you the Shelton, Washington Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for $1,003, which is lower than the national average by a couple hundred bucks,

so renting might be the way to go. I found a three-bedroom, two- two bath, 1,344 square foot house. Kind of shitty. Needs some work, but $166,000. Okay. Well below the average. The thing here, land is cheap. I found a bunch of things.

I found six acres of forest here for $49,990. Oh, that's awesome. Awesome. I found.98 acres, so basically an acre right on the water. Right on the water, 50 grand. Really? Yeah, not bad. I found another one that's like 125 grand for 50 acres.

What? Yeah, you can really stretch out here if you want to do some land, pitch your tent, do whatever. I found a four-bedroom, four-bath, 4,874 square foot, gorgeous, huge property, beautiful property beautiful 1,550,000 dollars so there's some shit houses and then there's some real expensive houses and then there's some land that you can there's a lot whatever yeah there's a lot of land for sale up there for very reasonable i mean six six acres for 50 grand isn't bad seems like a deal that's cheap i mean you can't buy desert for that much in ari, and that shit's useless. Right.

You know what I mean? Here, it's... It's like 40 grand for an acre here? Yeah. Somebody was saying something about land somewhere was 15 grand an acre, and I was like, this is cheaper than that. Right. It's crazy.

Things to do here, the Mason County Forest Festival. For... Huh? Festival of the Forest. Oh, boy. Oh, yeah. It's 75 years this has been going on here. The festival has honored the traditions of an industry which is at its very core. Forestry.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. We got 27 log rides. That's all it is. It's log rides. Chopping. Axe swinging. The Paul Bunyan lookalike contest.

Oh, my God. Oh god oh my god what they have is even funnier than that never mind and its roots are generations of families who have nurtured the forest and the business of managing those forests every year those families and friends gather along with visitors from near and far to celebrate those rich historical traditions from a pet parade to high climbing fun there's something for every member of your family. You get to climb trees. Let's see here. There's a Saturday fun run, a family and pets parade. So your kid, your fucking dog, whatever.

Run them all down the street. Run them all down the middle of the street. Yeah, run with those dogs, you little bastard. There's mine. The Paul Bunyan parade. Oh, there's a parade of them. There's a parade of Paul Bunyan. That probably includes a lookalike contest.

They all dress like ball bunions. Which one's the best? That's it. A logging show. I know what those are. I've seen those. Log. Log.

Log. Log. Log. It is pretty impressive to see two men operate a fucking. Yeah, ESPN. They've had those outdoor games. Yeah, the back and forth saw. Those are.

I forget what they're called, but whatever. It doesn't matter. Don't tweet it at me. No, we don't know. We don't care. They're fascinating to watch. Yeah, the back and forth saw. I forget what they're called, but whatever. It doesn't matter. Don't tweet it at me. No, we don't know. We don't care. They're fascinating to watch. Yeah, yeah. Vendors, a firework show, a carnival, a car show, all sorts of shit.

And also, the Christmastown Market and Tree Maze around Christmas, because they're into that. Tree Maze. This is how they, Tree Maze, a maze of trees. Okay. The shining except for trees. Corn maze? Yeah. This is how they advertise it.

If you don't like Hallmark Christmas movies, stay away from Shelton this Christmas! Exclamation point. Because the whole town's a Hallmark Christmas movie. We're celebrating Christmastown, USA with live music, vendors, crafts, activities, gingerbread house contests, Santa Claus, a guinness attempt with a tree lit maze they're gonna go for the biggest tree lit world record here good for you now uh crime rate in this town what we're interested in obviously it's striking let's just say property crime in this town i think it's the highest we've ever had three times the national average you win crackheads just take it there you go yeah you're the champions three times three times wow you win crackheads just take it there you go yeah you're

the champions three times three times wow you're the crackiest city we've done so far congratulations good lord uh and then violent crime murder rape robbery and assault the mount rushmore of crime is actually just under the national average so yeah this is cracky people stealing shit they're trying to get drugs yeah this is this some drugs. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide

when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the

killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. with a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit

with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's

most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later,

what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener follow the generation y podcast on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to generation y ad free right now by joining wondery plus a problem here so let's talk about a murder i don't even this is a crazy one man. We talk about a lot of murders that are, it's kind of fun sometimes. Not fun.

I guess it is fun. That's why we do the fucking show. But we'll talk about like people who, regular people. Hey, these two were married for 15 years and then they had some problems. And she left and moved to the trailer across the street. Of course you're going to lose your fucking mind. Even that, and I'm not even talking trailer. Sometimes it's, we've had just normal people like you like burlingame kansas

think about that guy normal guy just you know they got a divorce blah blah blah next thing you know he's coming to the family house on a holiday to murder everybody kills everybody it's we've had we have that and we have we have different type of thing we have like uh you know we'll have like asshole friends who are like hillbillies and they're drunk and then one decides to kill another one in the woods we have all these crazy stories then we have the ones that are truly truly just what the fuck is that just horrible mental illness instability what what is that guy what happened where you're like the kid that killed the kids and then kept those skulls and his dad was a police exactly. Yeah, exactly. Rhode Island. Yeah, that's insanity. There's no answer for that.

How do you answer that? That's the problem. There's no emotion to attach to that behavior. The vampire pyramid scheme, pocket robbing guy. No emotion to attach to that. I got nothing. He just cooked up cat parts and kept birds in his pocket to snack on later.

Doesn't make sense sense it's just plain crazy right sometimes people are just plain fucking crazy and i know you know mental illness wise that's not the the it's hard to because we aren't doctors this isn't regular crazy this is what i mean okay people don't want to be like they don't like the word crazy because it's a label and blah blah blah and that's fine dismissive for regular people who are just walking around and have your issues we all have our issues and that's fine you're not crazy this is crazy okay there's that's what i mean there's a separation between regular crazy that we go oh you have a mental illness and we put a label on it and shit like that try to help you and then where we just go

how where can we have this person locked away forever because they're fucking nuts just sorry they're out of their minds and this is a situation we have here so let's talk about a guy named gary cameron okay okay gary cameron now by the way this is probably the the least publicized case we've ever done too which is and when you hear the details of it you're like what where the fuck are the journalists around here somebody jesus christ was there no newspaper in town what is happening it's a hallmark movie town and the guy's last name is cameron cameron yeah oh him and his fucking sister there yeah all of them of them. That's amazing. Jesus Christ.

Candace Cameron. I remember that when we were little kids and Full House came out and they were like, Kirk Cameron's sister's on it. And everyone was like, oh, that must be good then. Why did we think that was good when we were eight? Because Mike Seaver was, I guess, funny at the time. We didn't know how fucking kooky he was. We didn't know.

We didn't know he was a Jesus nut. How We didn't know how far into it he is. He had no clue he was going to be making left behind movies for the next 25 years. We had no idea. He was like the dick on the show.

He was like getting away with shit and like fucking trying to hang out with girls on the sly and sneaking out of his room. He had a friend named Boner. Right.

Like you couldn't see Jesus on the horizon. No, there's no Jesus. His dad's a canadian for christ's sake i mean come on his dad's a canadian who in real life has a son that rips off music he's got a son who rips off music and then his is on the show kids turned out to be a fucking jesus freak an anorexic the the tracy gordon she had the terror she went through some tough times and then a fucking crackhead the young one's a crackhead who got arrested all the time he was a fucking unreal like for pills and crack and meth and he's a fucking disaster where did it all go wrong and then somehow leonardo dicaprio was the other kid on the show good one yeah he's the one they brought

in is like well we brought him in on purpose we needed a fucking somebody go the other way i didn't just slip it past joanna kern's goalie i always felt like that show they were like if only we could get terry gar i love her she's not available my my ex-father-in-law i guess gave me a kurt cameron movie because he thought it reminded he watched the movie and thought that the movie kurt cameron's part reminded him of me so he gave me the movie and had me the movie, Kirk Cameron's part reminded him of me. So he gave me the movie. A Kirk Cameron movie? And had me watch it to be better as a person.

So I decided to watch the movie. Be more like Kirk Cameron, Jimmy. So I'm going along, whatever, I'll give it a try. How old are you? Fuck, I was married. I'm in my 30s. Oh my God, you're an adult? I thought you were like 14 and you're like,

fine, I got nothing better to do tonight. I'm trying to get along with my father-in-law, figuring out a relationship. So I watched the movie. The very first five minutes of the movie, Kirk Cameron's character is a piece of shit and swears out his mother. I'm like, that's not me. What is this?

And then he goes onto his computer and he's just tugging at internet porn. I'm like, I'm better than that. I tug, but not just in front of everybody. Was he just in the living room? Yeah, he's in his computer room, just tugging. Honey, the voice is on. He's like, wait a minute, let me bust this out quick. Hey, sweetheart, turn around, hold on.

Hey, keep the kids out of the kitchen. I'm almost done. And then at the end of the movie, the guy makes up with his mom, he treats his wife better, and he throws his computer in the trash. And that's like, what am I supposed to take from this? What am I taking away from this movie? You're a bad person jimmy that's who you're supposed to take from it get your

fucking masturbate he's like jimmy master i feel like that means your father-in-law see i love when people tell you they remind you of somebody or something because that says totally about them how they project you is not anything else so in his mind, he said, Jimmy's an incessant masturbator. I feel it. I can feel it. I don't know why I know it. And he treats his mother like shit. He's an incessant masturbator, and I feel like his masturbation is really causing a problem in my daughter's marriage.

Unreal. Wow. And then he makes some new covenant with Jesus and becomes a better person and takes care of his family and stops tugging. Stops tugging stops tugging throws the computer takes he's no email there's gonna do for work now there's an enormous scene where he's carrying the tower of the computer out of the house and like throws it in the outdoor bin and then walks back in and like a feeling better fuck you doesn't even bag it up no someone's gonna just puts that oh they're gonna get all the personal shit off the hard drive jesus christ okay was he tugging the kitty porn i don't know i mean that would make

sense where he's like i can't do this anymore if he's just tugging a regular porn showing the scenes well that's true i mean would he was like yeah little girl did he say anything like that nothing nothing like yeah you're lost at the mall aren't you nothing of that nature okay good so wasn't anything super weird. So he's just regular tugging. Regular tugging. Jesus, that's right. Unreal.

That's just wrong. Kirk Cameron. You project as an incessant masturbator. Apparently, yeah. Family members. I mean, I do it. It's a thing in my life, but it's not like in front of everybody. In the living room.

It's not keeping me from paying my bills. They're not like, Kirk, your grandma's funeral's in 10 minutes hold on i'm almost done this is a good one but kirk right wait a minute all right fine i'll go to i'll do it at the funeral let's go you want that i'll do it right on the casket all right here you go grandma something to remember me by the bitch told me i had to be here sorry everybody sorry i got a thug things i gotta do so gary cameron let's get to him here uh this guy boy okay just start with june 9th 1980 let's start back there let's go back in time some june 9th 1980 uh gary is in his 20s at this point okay gary has got some some fucking issues now right away this is not the same size town that we've

talked about because in 1980 there is only about 7500 people here so it's a smaller town a little more rural you know just to give you a you know an idea of the whole thing. Pet parades, Paul Bunyan lookalike contests are happening. So afternoon of June 9th, 1980, a police officer sees Gary Cameron. He's walking around downtown Shelton, which we've described as being quaint. On the hill is the Walmart and shit, but downtown is quaint. Yeah, old secondhand bookshop shit like that so you know you figure it's an afternoon yeah in june so it's up it's beautiful out nice it's warm people walking around you know grandmothers and shit walking around

well they find uh old gary here old gar uh gar bear bear bear here by the way gary this guy reminds me so much of on live pd in rhode island there's this guy they run into all the time named gary and every time he he'll like pop out of a trailer and they're like a gary oh hey gary how's it going that's not your trailer he stabs out he's like you guys know me right they're like we know you gary that's all right he's okay it's fucking funny so gary this is this town's gary gary cameron is wandering around downtown he's looking a bit disheveled anyway in the face he doesn't quite look all there uh not to mention his outfit is interesting yeah uh no shoes none

at all barefoot just barefoot but it's nice it's So, I mean, I guess maybe he's a hippie. Yeah. It's 1980. He could just be left over. Who knows? Yeah. But when you add in the other things to it, it becomes a little weirder. He's wearing women's stretch pants. Oh, no.

And a woman's house coat. Like an old lady's house coat. Like an actual one. Like an older woman's house coat. Zipper all the way up. You know, with the snap buttons with flower patterns on it. And a woman's stretch pants. Stretch pants. No shoes, pants no shoes no shirt uh wandering around like a young guy and he's not like you know saying right i this is how i feel on the inside that's not what he's doing and it's not macklemore this yes i mean this is not a he didn't go thrifting he's not gender fluid that's

not what we're saying here this is just he's he's just crazy yes you know he just looks nuts this is just what he chose yeah exactly um so a police officer said pull over and take a gander at this young man question let's talk to him see what he's he's at least interesting he's gonna be someone fun to talk to so he stopped and questioned yeah uh now i have a question young man what the fuck why just why just stand back and yeah up and down and go huh i'm gonna question anything I have a question, young man. What the fuck? Why? Just why? Just stand back and walk down and go, eh? I'm going to question you. Anything? Yeah, what do you got?

What do you got? Why? No, especially too, 1980, you got to think about. Like now, no matter what you see anyone wearing, you never look twice. No. Because people are fucking, they wear whatever they want. Who cares? Yeah.

I don't fucking care. If you did, it's a million CeeLo greens out there. We're in the airports constantly yeah our heads would never stop snapping around at crazy people so many times i'm going what the fuck are you doing yeah what are you doing but back then if you see a guy in a small town with a old woman's house coat and lady stretch pants and no shirts and nothing else looking nuts yeah in the face you're gonna go talk to him so now what he does at first he gives the cop a false name at first okay now right away that's an arrestable offense yeah uh given a false name

is obstruction and they can arrest you just for that so they can take you to jail uh but he ended up correcting it he that's the thing the cop was under the impression that he didn't really understand what was going on and he sort of like he gave a false name. And the cop was like, you gave this. That's not your right name. And he was like, oh, yeah, no, it's this. Yeah. Like he did like a Mike.

He did like my cousin Vinnie. Like, no, no, Jerry Callow. Not Jerry Gallo. Not Gallo. Jerry Callow. Callow with a C. Callow. Yeah.

I feel like it's one of those situations. So this is going to take me three more days. He ended up correcting it. And they're like, OK. So, yeah, I feel like it's one of those situations. Well, this is going to take me three more days. He ended up correcting it, and they're like, okay. So he gives them the name. And, by the way, you can't pump it into a national database. It's immediately going to come up with a warrant from Missouri or some shit. This is just you gave him a name, and he went, all right. And then he called it into the station to see if you have active warrants.

That's how it would work back then. I don't think they didn't have computers in their cars in 1980. People didn't have computers in their fucking offices then. Computers didn't even exist. They were huge. Yeah, they were giant. They were not personal ones. It would be the whole car.

I can't take the prisoner. I have the computer. There's no room in the computer for an engine. Takes up the whole back seat, so it's a problem here. So then the cops said okay that's fine um interesting the way you're dressed that's fine so now we know your name want to like just tell me you know what's up with your outfit brother like you know where'd you get that maybe i'd want something similar so uh you know why are you dressed like that yeah buddy

yeah and uh his paul bunyan didn't look like that yeah he's this is my this is my take on paul bunyan this is the way i see him yeah see it's a see some people see jimmy as an incessant horrible masturbator is mean to his mother and you see me as so uh he says that uh he's dressed this way quote because, because I just grabbed what I could. My mother-in-law turned vicious. That's what he said. Okay. That's his only explanation.

Grabbed what I could. Mother-in-law turned vicious. So cops like, all right, mother-in-law, I guess, got mad at him and he just grabbed what he couldn't, got out of the house because he didn't want to deal with her. Fine. I feel like the cops like he's trying to see if this guy is okay to be on the streets, but he really doesn't want to deal with them. So he's just like, all right, that's a fine enough answer.

Right. So you're doing this, right? Yeah. Okay, good. Acceptable answer. Yeah. That's it. He also says that he is headed for California.

Gary Campbell says. He goes, I'm on my way to California with no shoes or shirt and a house coat and stretch pants. This is how I get in there. Going to California via downtown Shelton. So, you know, it's through Oregon, the whole deal. Just going to wander on down there. So the officer, though, he has no reason to detain him at this point.

He gave a false name, but then he corrected it. So he already let that go. And he's not yelling at anyone or punching anyone. He just seems like a fucking guy who's a little wacky. What are you going to do? It's Washington. Sometimes people are weird. Save for a couple blisters.

I guess you can make it to California. I suppose. Or you can hitchhike, which is what he said he's going to do. He goes, well, I'm going to hitchhike to California. And I was like, all right, well, I guess that's fine. Best of luck. And the officer lets him go. Says, all right, well, have a good one.

Salute, fucker. Enjoy. And lets him go on his hitchhiking way. And the cop drives away and that's it uh later on that evening though they make a discovery not this particular police officer but uh another police officer makes a discovery when a woman named marie cameron you might recognize that last name is his last name this is his stepmother okay um this is his stepmother uh marie cameron uh

but she's supposed to do things today and didn't do anything yeah and uh no one can find her so uh that's so close to calendar by the way marie calendar yeah she makes a mean pie i don't know how you get marie cameron through your lips so easily every time you say Marie, I'm going calendar. Marie calendar. Calendar. Calendar. Their pies are shit. To make at home, though. Their pies are shit. Their fucking frozen Sara Lee pies are better than Marie calendars.

Well, they're both the same. Have you ever been to a Marie calendars? It's like an old lady's living room. It's awful. It's fucking terrible in there. But in the grocery store, I like their. Oh, they're frozen like pot pies. That's what I mean. You know what?

I'll eat one of those. Yeah. The frozen. Anything is there so that you can make it home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I mean. You know what? I'll eat one of those. The frozen... Anything is there so that you can make it home. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Those frozen dinners are good. You can tell Jimmy and I are just disgusting trash.

We're discussing what dinners are good. And you can tell we've been divorced. And we've been divorced and we've eaten bad food. And found what's edible. And also have been poor, is the other thing. And been very poor a lot of different times. So you can see. And found the other poor people food.

I can give you a detailed review of every frozen dinner there is. That's the thing. Everything. That's a bonus episode. That is a bonus of every... Yeah. Our bad food reviews. That would be a good bonus episode.

At the end of every month, we do take up all of our food experiences from the road from that month and do a fucking episode on the crazy food shit that happens. Here's the shitholes. Here's the decent ones. Yeah. And we're at to find good ones. It's very rare. Once in a while, we'll find an experience. We were like, Atlanta.

We were like, oh, it's heaven here. Oh, look at this. You can smoke in here. What? Oh, what a great restaurant that was. Not now. Not now. Today.

Today. Yesterday was the last day. I hope you enjoyed Atlanta. It was day. I hope you enjoyed Atlanta. It was great. I hope you enjoyed eating a big steak and then sitting back and smoking a cigarette and feeling good. Now you got to go outside in the humidity. It's a good time to get off an airplane and have a layover and then be like, oh, look,

I can stay inside. I don't have to go through security. Yeah. That would be great. That's wonderful. That's over now. God forbid. It's over.

God forbid you heard people in a disgusting little room anyway. I can't have that. I'm not affecting you. It's too. God forbid you heard people in a disgusting little room anyway. I can't have that. I'm not affecting you. It's too good for them. Clog up security more. That's what we need to do. Do you see the smiles? Fuck them.

We need people. There's not enough people going through security. We need to clog that one. Can we make it slower? Get that big group of people there. Send them outside and then back in. That's how we'd like it to work. And don't tell me to quit because fucking no.

Yeah. Well, quitting is fine. That's fine. But when you're on the road, when you're on the road too, you got to understand smoking is spotty. And when you're

don't make me quit because it's inconvenient. The road and shows are they make you smoke. Sometimes it's just one of those things you can't fucking so hard.

You can't help it because we're running and we're stressed and there's things that happen and we end up smoking outside and neither of us want to and we do anyway. It's not my favorite thing in the world. We can't help it because we're running and we're stressed and there's things that happen and we end up smoking outside and neither of us want to and we do anyway. It's not my favorite thing in the world. We shame smoke outside. I feel like a piece of shit.

Right there. I feel like an angry Frenchman. Yeah. Why? I come outside to smoke. You tell me to come outside, I come outside. Why? You gotta search my bag. They searched my bag. I said, why?

They searched again. Fuck. Oh, boy. So, yeah. Marie Callender here is missing. So, Marie Cameron, they can't find Marie Cameron. So, by the way, in case you haven't noticed, we're going to have a little, we're just kind of going off the reservation, having some fun in this episode because it's like New

Year's week and no one's going to fucking listen to this. Not no one, but less people listen to this episode. So there's like three episodes a year where we feel we're going to fuck around and have some fun. These are for us. Yeah. This one's for me. This is for us.

You got like 50, 50 over the course of the year for you. This one's for us. Fuck off. I'm a bitch that I can't smoke in the Atlanta airport. That's right. You don't like it? Tune in next week. I don't know what to tell you. This one's for us. Fuck off. I'm a bitch that I can't smoke in the Atlanta airport. That's right. You don't like it? Tune in next week. I don't know what to tell you.

We'll be back to normal. We'll be back to being on track. So they go to look for Marie Cameron, his stepmom, and they can't find her. They knock on her door. No answer. No answer. So they end up doing a well check on her and busting know busting in the door here and what they find is pretty fucking horrific uh they look through no signs of her in the living room kitchen anywhere finally they get to the bathroom yeah and uh inside the bathtub

is they find marie and it is a horror scene uh marie at the time they find her has a knife protruding from her heart it's still there stuck in her chest right where her heart is sticking out so i mean it's like right there now that would be horrible enough if that was the wound uh she's also been stabbed 96 other times 97 times she's been stabbed and the final one goes and just left in left it there right so 97 times we've done in our show a lot of stabbing people on crazy we're like oh how do you stab 56 times 90 just do that with your arm right and do it now and i'm not just talking move your arm up and down do it hard enough to penetrate right flesh right bone tendon fucking uh get tendon, fucking cartilage.

To get in a person. Do that 97 fucking times. There's no way to do it outside of... There has to be fuel. I don't even feel like a person could be that angry. Even if someone did the most hard... If someone killed your child, I feel like even then after 50, you'd be like, Well, this person's unrecognizably stabbed now 50 stab wounds is a lot and jesus am i tired yeah i think i did it i can't breathe

97 is like i don't even know what they would have had to do to you that's crazy shit so uh and the the she's in the bathtub 97 stab wounds knife sticking out uh no no obviously no attempt to conceal anything just shit everywhere i mean with 97 it's hard to hide that it's that's what i mean it's a mess so uh they have they're trying to find out from family members who's been around and uh they find out that gary was there and now they then they also find out from the police officer that they found gary wandering around the streets dressed a little weird and acting funny later on that day. So, like, we'd really like to talk to old Gary here and find out what he has to say. So they end up actually finding him the next day in Oregon.

Oh, he's close. He's moving in that direction. I mean, it's two hours from portland this place like we said so uh he was wandering uh along the shoulder of the i-5 near salem oregon the oregon and the oregon state police found him wow so he he just took the freeway and started walking hitchhiking yeah he's hitchhiking so whoever i don't know who's picking up a guy not me who the fuck is picking that guy up nope from what I understand, it's not just his dress. He looks different as far as you could look at his eyes and go, that guy ain't right. Right.

Wiry hair sticking up everywhere. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, no attempt to care for himself and shit like that. So I don't know who's giving him rides, but somebody must have been giving him rides. Back then, too. I mean, from 1980, you still had leftover hippies that give anybody a ride, which is such a bizarre fucking thing. I can't imagine letting a stranger in my car.

Seventy ever. And especially now, 1980 was like after the serial killer thing like happened, like it started. Hitchhiking was the most dangerous thing. It's it was really taking your life in your own hand every single time. Well, it was just somebody, you could just drive, you were a murderer, you could just be perusing down the freeway, like you're shopping, and this person's just going to get right in your car.

You just pull over. All you have to do is, you don't have to convince them of anything. Where to? And they say, I'm going here. You go, that's where I'm going to. Hop on in. That's it. Done.

Sold. Holy shit. All you got to say is, me too, and they're in. I on. That's it. Done. Sold. Holy shit. You got to say is me too. And they're in. I mean, that's crazy. Wow. I mean, no wonder why there was so many murders of hitchhikers back then. And now people are, it's a little less hitchhiking.

You rarely see people hitchhiking now. It's if I ever see it, I go, ha ha. Sure. You are. You're not really doing that. Yeah. It's a joke. It's a joke.

The people you see now are not like back then. Normal people. You'd then normal people you'd see normal people hitchhike some kid with a guitar case back in the 70s or something now it's like just wow what happened to that motherfucker and they're just standing there and fucking thumb out and like everything they own and like a torn box at their feet you're like whoa my daughter's nine walking down the street somewhere she sticks her thumb out and laughs. Ha ha. Like she's joking. Yeah.

Cars are going by and she's got her thumb out and she's laughing because she's really not. But if a car stopped, I'm sure she would run. I hope. I swear to Christ. Jesus Christ. I'm sure she would run. I hope she wouldn't go, yay, finally worked. But we giggle that that was a thing.

I don't even know where she saw it or why she thinks it's so goddamn funny a movie of some kind i'm telling you it's the funniest thing she's ever heard when she does it she she people just she dies laughing it's fucking crazy so well he's doing it uh gary old gare here is wandering around i love calling him gare for some reason gare because you want to go gare gare gare yeah come on buddy come on gary favorite short for any name gare gare so good gare gare come on gare so uh it's always talking down to him every time no every time yeah now at this point in time uh he is wearing stretch pants and he's wearing a house coat but he's acquired one shoe he's got one at some point he picked up a shoe happened to be the right size we don't know that he just

probably i assume bigger than he wore right so this foot doesn't hurt anymore i don't know if he switched it back and forth for keep it comfortable or what. Left, now we're going right. But they stop him and they go, okay, one shoe's crazier than no shoes. It is. No shoes is like, oh, maybe they're a hippie, maybe they just don't like shoes.

Some people are, you see people walking around. I see fucking women in the grocery store with no shoes on them. There's a guy that lived in Payson that used to be on a TV show. Right, that's fucking, get the fuck out. There's the be on a TV show. Right. That's fucking. Get the fuck out.

There's the fucking door. Fuck out of here. I will grab you by your bun and drag you out. You fucking know. And if it's a guy with no shoes. I'll punch him. Tase him immediately. I'll fight him right now.

Immediately. I don't even like. I hate those fucking tase. Tase him and drag him from the store and yell at him while you're tasing him more. There's a guy that was on a reality show in northern arizona i don't remember what show it was it was like one of the fucking naked and afraid or whatever but that's his thing is that he just he doesn't he lives his life with no shoes and his feet unbelievably calloused and he can walk on

anything well yeah because those are shoes now 15 years of no shoes yeah that's the thing he has good your feet yeah feet by michelin right he doesn't need tires no tires it's perfect no i have a snow tread on here actually it's good for winter i'm gonna move up north i put chains on come november but yeah you need them sometimes so this guy like i said no shoes you might think it's that guy maybe he's a hippie maybe he's whatever who know maybe he's just really poor who knows one shoe says crazy wild you have two shoes or no shoes you don't have one shoe i don't want to talk to the guy with one shoe that's yeah one shoe is crazy that's literally i think the craziest thing you could wear is one shoe maybe i'm trying to think of what makes you seem crazy.

You could have a big Napoleon hat on. You'd go, oh, maybe he's eccentric. One shoe is like, where'd he escape from? What's wrong with this person? Who's supposed to watch him? Literally, yeah. Did he get beat up? Did he wander away from a car accident?

Is he like, something bad happened. That might be the most logical explanation where where's the car that he was traveling in that's what i mean and where's the family that's burning alive yeah the shoes got caught back in there what because no one leaves the house and goes got my shoe on and walks out got my good shoe on puts one shoe on he's like i only need one like they're an old Rich Carlos or something. It's an old Bronco reference for you. It's a barefooted kicker.

That's the only other time if you're like a 70s or 80s NFL field goal kicker or a crazy person. That's all it is. So since he's wearing stretch pants and one shoe, the police assumed he was an escapee from a nearby mental hospital. They said he must have escaped from the hospital obviously fucking look at him right so uh they they let's let's keep him in the back of a car for a minute and find out if that's what it is so they start calling it in and they find out that actually he is wanted in shelton washington for questioning uh for the 97 stab wounds yeah so they're like we're happy to give him back to you

yeah you can have him well maybe you guys will help solve the case of where his other fucking shoe yeah out of the state thank you we're not dealing with him so they take him in uh they arrest him actually and inform him you know give him his miranda rights and everything like that uh right away he says well i'd definitely like to talk about it, obviously. I mean, I'd like to say anything I can. Yeah. You know, anything. I'm up for it. So they sit him down. The one-shoed man speaks here.

And he gave two different confessions. Did he sit down in what he's wearing? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or did they, like, book him in and put him in a pair of shoes? I mean, they probably booked him in and put him in. Actually, no. When they first brought him in, they're not going to book him in and send him in. They're going to bring him in and try to question him. Well, I mean, they're going to arrest him, but they're going to question him immediately

so he doesn't get too comfortable. They want to get something out of him. So, yeah, I'm sure he's sitting there with one shoe on, fucking shackled to the desk. Unreal. So, wow. The first one is a tape-recorded confession, and the second one is a signed, written confession. Okay? confession and the second one is a signed written contest confession okay uh now in his oral confession here he says that he was living as he put it in or about the home of his father and

stepmother so basically he's been kind of i think he's one of these people who shows up sometimes and then wanders away for five days and then he'll pop back in again and he has his good weeks and his bad weeks and shit like that i think he's one of those people where you know he's a little out there now he said um he said he left home his house was where his father and stepmom lived dressed like he was because his stepmother had become violent now he told the other cop his mother-in-law had become violent. They had a different relation. Yeah, there is no mother-in-law here.

He's not married. He doesn't have a mother-in-law. So he said his stepmother had become violent. Now, his statement we really got to take apart very, very carefully here because it's interesting. Okay, his first sentence that he starts out with, this is on the oral confession. They say, why? What happened? And he goes, okay.

Quote, she's into different types of sorcery. Okay. That's where he's starting. One shoe. Yeah. Side of the road. 97 stab wounds. She's into different types of sorcery.

So you can just see the homicide detective sitting there, like, leaning forward with their notebooks. Just went, huh? Lean back in his chair. Like, it's going to be a long fucking day. That's where we're starting. Starting with sorcery. Okay. Oh, boy.

Okay. Then he says, quote, she's just strictly a very evil person. And she became very violent with me with a knife in her hand and so uh he said i don't deny that i'm the one that did what went on out there oh boy that's what he says that's a quote i don't deny that i'm the one that did what went on out there we gotta be specific yeah what he said well he gets real specific he says that he walked into the bathroom and he didn't see. He was in there and he didn't expect her to pop in. He said she popped into the bathroom and had a knife in her hand.

That's what he said. And it startled him. He didn't expect to see her there. So he immediately grabbed her because he was startled. That was the way he said. He said that he was able to take the knife away from her easily because she's not that strong yeah and that he said he uh bend her bent her wrist back and took the knife away from her so he just grabbed her and overpowered her grab the

knife away from her you know which if she was going in there with a knife to stab him is fine you can do that you obviously can defend yourself and or shit an apple in the other hand that's the problem yeah who knows if she was just like i'm making chicken tonight oh you know what i mean like she's out there cutting shit parting out a fucking bird right should i make a section for you yeah would you like a leg or out who knows what happened here so uh yeah, he says that he took it. He said then he took the knife and then he says, quote, I took the knife and really stabbed her. Yeah. Really stabbed her.

I don't know what really. Not fake stabbed her. As opposed to just, you know, I was kind of half hearted. A little. I'll be honest with you. My heart wasn't into it. I was stabbing her. But I mean, I wasn't really into it.

It's one of those things like you're just with somebody you're not into anymore. I'm serious about it. And you're like, you know what, man? This is over. And it's just not. It's one of those things. That's how it felt. He then said, quote, I just kept stabbing her and stabbing her because she wasn't feeling.

Oh, good Lord. I don't know what that means. Well, this is what I mean. This is what his statements are so out there that you have to put them into a mental state and kind of try to figure out because on their own, they're really out there. He said, I just kept stabbing her and stabbing her because she wasn't feeling. And then he gives a long pause. He's trying to gather his thoughts and figure it out. gives a long pause like he's trying to gather his thoughts yeah and figure it out like what he's saying is she wasn't i guess feeling like she was dying because he says quote it was as if she was laughing oh he's stabbing her and stabbing her because he says she he feels like she's enjoying this uh-huh is what he's saying now he says as if as if she was up to something that morning and i don't know she said then he takes a long pause now right away if you're this cop let's just go over it real quick just his quote she's into

different types of sorcery right she's strictly an evil person she became very violent with me with a knife in her hand i don't deny that i'm the one that did it i was in there she came up to me i bent her wrist back i took the knife easily and i really stabbed her i just kept stabbing her and stabbing her because she wouldn't feeling because she wasn't feeling it was as if she was laughing uh okay that's what he's saying so they're like okay that doesn't make any sense so then she says he says as if she was laughing as if she was up to something that morning and i don't know and then he takes a long pause and he says quote she plays around with witchcraft and that stuff okay so that's that's maybe she was putting some chicken to get the leg off of it to cause a fucking cell on me maybe she put one on herself that this knife tickles so i keep stabbing

that's what i'm saying like he's basically well he's going to elaborate a little bit more don't worry that's not all he's going to say he's going gonna say a lot more uh he said the last place he saw her was in the bathtub and he said that quote she just kept moving and moving and moving and kind of grabbed me like this but laughing as if she was enjoying it no i don't think he knows what these emotions that's what i mean that's how crazy he is that someone's struggling for their life in fear he thinks of of as some sort of game that's laughing. He doesn't get it. He's fucking out there. Then he says, and it was kind of sickening.

Well, I would fucking hope so. It should. There's blood everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah. All over everything. All over you. You, the room, her, stabbing 97 times.

You have a lot of time to think about it. It takes a long time to stab someone 97 times. have a lot of time to think about it takes a long time yeah count to 97 that's what i mean stab stab it's a lot seven eight my arm's tired and i don't even have a knife and i haven't even plunged through fucking cartilage it's a lot i'm still stabbing into this i'm still stabbing it's a lot of stabbing and you would you have time to think about it oh the playoffs start this week that's pretty cool i really hope new england loses i'm glad they're the number three seed because fuck them and why didn't they put minnesota and the philly philadelphia eagles into that video it doesn't make any sense really weird right

why would they not be rooting for by the way i'm still stabbing it's still going wow this is how much stabbing there is that's a lot you can keep stabbing i didn't even do 97 no you're probably in the 50s that's what i mean yeah that's and you sitting there literally going what am i going to do today you do some banking right you can think about oh fuck i gotta pay my insurance like that's how lady's name is real close to marie callan isn't that weird i kind of want pie that sounds good i'm gonna put on a house coat and some stretch 97 times uh so it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us

and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st bye-bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts he said it was sickening but it was really maddening to me because of her offense toward me that's what he said so the other he says weird things and puts descriptive words on things that don't strictly an evil person

strictly an evil person that doesn't make sense no he's trying to yeah i think he's trying to find words that he's trying to describe things that to make it sound like somebody that deserved what that punishment is he says because of her offense toward me right so that's why it was really maddening because he's trying to stab her and stab her to get you know to show her that he's mad at her but then she's not even she's laughing at it yeah how what the fuck sickening uh sickening uh he says quote it was like you know it was almost like she was mechanical wow you're not seeing a human being as a human being bro i mean you think you're they're laughing when they're when you're stabbing them and then you think it's like mechanical it's not recognizing emotions or human at all a human being bro i mean you think you're they're laughing when they're when you're stabbing them and then you think it's like mechanical it's not recognizing emotions or

human at all no that's what i mean he's totally disconnected from something uh quote i mean the thing was set up that that's what she wanted to happen well that's what he said yeah i mean the thing was set up that that's what she wanted to happen I feel that deep inside that she was asking someone to put her out of her misery. Okay. Now, this is where we get into the, this is where the crazy comes. Yeah. Okay. It's here.

It's here. It's on the door. It's knocking. We're about to open it and fucking clad in one shoe. We're about to invite him open and say, there's a pot of coffee going. Come on in. Would you like a charcuterie tray? Tell us more. This is what we coffee going. Come on in. Would you like a charcuterie tray? Tell us more.

This is what we have going on here. Okay. I feel that deep inside she was asking someone to put her out of her misery. Then he takes a long pause, looks at them, and he says, quote, she was very symbolic with the scarlet whore beast. I don't know. What the? Why do you put the Scarlet Horror Beast?

What is that? Oh, the fuck knows what the Scarlet Horror Beast is. It was symbolic. The Scarlet Horror Beast. What? Is that a period? I believe so. That's what women call their period.

Dastardly Scarlet Horror Beast has visited me again. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. dastardly scarlet horror beast has visited me again oh boy oh boy she was very symbolic with the scarlet horror beast i don't know that is if you're a fucking police detective what the fuck is talking you have to like pick your kid up after school you're like the scarlet horror beast dance tonight what the fuck this is gonna take forever so just to again i and i we pause and we stop so quote she just kept moving and moving and moving and kind of grabbed me like this but laughing as if she was enjoying and it was kind of sickening but it was really maddening to me because of her offense toward me it was like you know it was almost like she was mechanical i mean the thing was set up that that's what she wanted to happen. I feel that deep inside. She was asking somebody to put her out of her misery.

She was very symbolic with this scarlet whore beast. Okay. That's a fascinating. Oh, boy. How does any of this? As a cop, do you just go, we got to get a specialist, right? We got to get like a doctor, right? He's out of his fucking mind.

We're going to let him talk, and then we're we're gonna take all these words throw those into court right because we're not gonna do what are we gonna do with this guy you do with this anymore right yeah this is beyond the law at this point right i'm a cop i'm not a this yeah we need to write tickets sometimes not a doctor i don't do this yeah this is beyond the realm of too much this is above my pay grade we're out of legal and into medical now this is fucking medical grade crazy we have going on here more money and education for this yeah um so she was very much symbolic with the scarlet whore beast okay um she was very much into sorcery very uh anti-god he says not really anti-god but takes the god's truth and twists it into sorcery so i had to stab her so i can go now right right yeah because i mean case closed who wouldn't have

done that i mean jesus christ is that is that what he's doing he's trying to spin to like this is his defense no no he's just telling he's this is his explanation now why he did it he's like understand now i mean right and then you put on one shoe right yeah we all get it okay good have a good one guys they grab what i had to grab i'm going to the walmart because i mean we had the shoe and she was vicious you know how it goes scarlet horror beast like we all haven't encountered the scarlet horror beast right from time to time obviously whoa um so he says um he also says quote i felt confused yeah he she twists it into sorcery yeah he that's i mean he takes god stuff and twists it into her own all right so so so is she's joel austin yes i believe so she's joel austin

she's gonna have 30 000 people having her money in a giant church she takes the bible and twists it to benefit her twist it to mean you should give me money electric blue carpet you know that works i need nicer suits and a bigger private helicopter and fucking shinier veneers so most in the closet son of a bitch oh i can't wait i can't wait till it comes out wait till he gets found at a truck stop with like an eight ball of meth and like three different underage male prostitutes all polishing his nutsack i can't wait for that and dripping off dripping off his face from all three of them i can't wait for that i want it oh god i want him to be perp walked hate him oh god he's a he's a tiny person right he's a little guy he's gotta be

right fucking who knows who can tell my point is like the cops on the perp walk are gonna be bent over holding the handcuffs yeah yeah yeah come on little guy let's go no people are going to be tweeting joel osteen's actually six five it's a power forward for loyola marymont she's yeah he probably is so he said uh quote i felt confused clearly i would say i felt no different from the beginning than the end there was no difference so it didn't he didn't feel relief i guess from stabbing her 97 times. From the same feeling from the beginning to end. He said, quote, legally. Now he's getting into, he knows the law.

He says, legally, I know that's against the law. Okay, so I get that, guys. But. But. And the next word is but. Yeah. Whenever anybody says legally, I know that's not legal. Yeah, yeah. But that means they've done something horrible. Here's where it is legal. Go on. and the next word is but yeah whenever anybody says legally i know that's not legal yeah but

that means they've done something horrible here's where it is legal go on that's like when on live pd or cops or any television show ever when a cop goes do you have anything legal in your car and he goes not that i know of that means yes you do it means i got a lot of stuff in the car there's a ton of shit i got drugs possibly a gun i'm not sure it's not mine maybe not mine he's already setting up his defense before it's even found i don't know not sure it's not mine maybe not mine he's already setting up his defense before it's even found i don't know not to my knowledge not to my knowledge well is it is it your car yeah but i mean you know who knows i've i've given people rides before i mean yeah obviously they could have planted a 45 caliber handgun and you know a bunch of crack rocks under my seat

clearly i mean it could happen don't your friends do that this is a 45 caliber and a bunch of crack rocks sir my friends what did i tell you i told my friends are they're jokesters that's what it is they're pranksters i told you copper hey fuckers so jesus christ he said illegally yeah i know that's against the law to staff someone 97 times but yeah uh as far as right and wrong in the eye of god i would say i've done no particular wrong. Oh, boy. I would say I've purged the witch. I mean, if we're going to be honest here.

Remember Salem? Scarlet, poor beast. Come on. Who hasn't encountered the Scarlet Horror Beast, guys? At least I didn't burn her alive. Finally, I was the one that had the balls to kill the Scarlet Horror Beast. You fucking people have been letting them wander for centuries now. uh yeah they said okay let's let's we understand that's scarlet horror beast and god and terrific then what happened you know let's let's get to the the details and get out of

your crazy for a minute and uh because i think also the cops know the crazier he sounds on this confession the less likely it is he's going to be convicted of a crime. So I think they want to get him on logistics and off of Scarlet Horror Beast and sorcery and that kind of shit. Get him out of the crazy realm and get him into reality. That's the thing. Well, then he goes in a little more detail because 97 stab wounds isn't all he did.

Oh, no. We think he's going to leave it alone in 97 stab wounds. Quote, I washed the blood off me and i changed clothes which explains his outfit of course he lives there he should have other clothes uh then i looked back at her and she was uh she was still moving around no she wasn't away no 97 stabs one and the last one was literally embedded in her heart like it wasn't near her heart it was in they pulled the knife

out of her oh god um yeah it stabbed right through the heart in the last one and several other times too um so she said uh he said still moving around uh after being stabbed what i thought was in the heart and the throat he thought he did a good job yeah he says uh you know about seven or eight times in both those areas like he didn't he didn't understand it yeah and he says and she just she just kept moving he just got frustrated can you imagine doing it was tickling her she was laughing right that's what i mean this is this is to do this is i mean it's dark and to not feel like you know disgusted about it is even more and to see and react to something that's not really happening like that yeah even ted bundy like, ashamed of what he did. Right.

You know what I'm saying? Even he, when he told that guy he had to whisper it in third person. Right. Well, if that guy did this... You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Even he couldn't say,

well, I fucking stabbed her. Right. I don't know. She kept moving around. Scarlet whore beast and everything. I tied her to a tree. Fucking raped her again. Jeffrey Dahmer,

anytime he said it all and then they repeat it back, he'd be like, isn't it fucking... I know. He'd be like, I don't i know he'd be like i don't know can you gather it because i fucking see him shaking his head when they would say it like he's like i know like they're telling you about somebody else and he's like that sounds like a sick bastard yeah it is you he's like i can't believe that fuck man yeah then there's the others or you know, I think BTK would have loved to talk. He's the only one who loved it. He's all the others.

It seems like we're like, they wanted to deny it because they know that there's shame in it. They know, right. They knew, they knew what they did, but there's also shame. And BTK is like,

he, he fucking love every serial killer. You know, we've not covered on the show because they're not small towns, but we, we've both extensively looked at these serial killers. That's the sickest. By far.

To me, he's the sickest motherfucker out there. The other guys did it in rooms with investigators. He stood in a courtroom with a fucking gallery of people. And he's just like, and at that point, yeah, I went ahead and just went ahead and strangled him. Well, the way he did it, his whole position of I'm going to be, he was just the biggest asshole of anybody in addition to being the worst. I hung the daughter over the pipe and then at that point I masturbated on her body. So that's how you do it, right?

Yeah. That and the fact that he was just a fucking church asshole. Not that people go to church are assholes, but he was that churchy asshole. Right. He was that asshole. Holier than that. Yeah. He would give people kurt cameron movies

that's what i mean exactly he'd be like here you go change your masturbating ways figure out your life you're supposed to kill children and masturbate on them not to the internet jesus christ fucking slackers these kids nowadays are just lazy i tell you they're lazy they just go down the internet for what you'd have to get out there get your hands dirty to do so what the fuck else did he do to her okay well yeah he says um about seven or eight times she just kept moving yeah she said he said quote it was like there was a smile on her face she kept lunging for me quote she kept lunging for me then he says she kept lunging for me while she was dead no um yeah like while she was dead i wasn't trying to be vicious he said it would look that way

clearly uh but that wasn't the intent she kept lunging at me over and over and over again and the nature of her attack her attack was i i uh i'm mad enough i wanted to kill her that's what he says i was uh mad enough i wanted to kill her i felt i was justified in self-defense at that point yeah because you started killing her and she was apparently not taking well to it and was you know or lunging at you while she was dead right you know obviously that was self-defense at that point i mean you know obviously so he said quote uh the last i saw of the knife he he said, quote, I tried to stick it in her heart.

She's some kind of animal. That was the last thing he said. She's some kind of animal. Whoa. Okay. That's the first statement there, which that had to leave the detectives like, we're going to take a five.

Yeah, yeah. I'm going to go take a five. Put you in a cell. I'm going to go bleach my brain. You stay right here. I'm going to get a cup of coffee. I'm going my children right make sure they're okay tell them i fucking love them call my mom you know just gonna get myself settled i might go to church i don't know i might go go and come back quick i'm not sure this might take a week is what i'm telling you but hang tight

right i'm getting that i gotta i gotta get better I gotta really figure out what the fuck I'm doing. So then he's like, cause obviously the, she was like an animal. They're like, okay. Yeah. He feels like he needs to explain more.

And then he says, look, look, she's very strong into, uh, she's into a very strong sorcery trip. He's trying to explain like, dude,

she's alive. She's a devil person trying to lunge at me. Well, I stabbed the devil out of her. Like, fuck man. Don't you get this? The fuck? trying to explain like dudes she's alive she's a devil person trying to lunge at me well i stabbed the devil out of her like fuck man don't you get this the fuck how much do i have to explain to you fucking people before you understand he says that's why she's very strong into sort into a very strong sorcery trip and that's why so many stab wounds yeah he says he says i'm not a goring sick person no obviously you got i've never been violent in my life.

But for some reason, there was some evil spirit behind her. That was, I don't know. It was like there was something within her that wasn't really part of her body. She was smiling. She was almost like enjoying playing. And it was disgusting. That was disgusting. Her being enjoying it. Digging it. She's so evil. That was disgusting. Yeah. Her being,

enjoying it. Digging it. She's so evil. The sorcery. Yeah. She got him to be evil, which was what she wanted. That's so, this is,

I mean, this is what they have sitting in there. Right. Stretch pants. You know what I'm saying? So, he says that,

the written, then they said, let's go ahead and let's write this down hey gare say again there's a pen there gare what do you say we have some paper let's uh let's go ahead and jot this down on paper make it official what do you say pal uh he says quote my attack this is what he wrote my attack wasn't a vicious attack the first time i was trying to stop the spirit that was moving in her that That's all he was doing.

Yeah. It's just, there was a spirit in her and I kept trying to stab at it. It was moving around. It's literally what he was saying. Like it was moving. I'm trying to stab at it and it kept fucking, it was dodging me. Wow. You know, it was like she had a little, like a lizard in her or something.

Like she had a little, a little Dennis Quaid in her space floating around in there and he had to exercise that shit. He had to chase it. I was trying to stop the inner space floating around in there. And he had to exercise that shit. He had to chase it. He had to chase it. I was trying to stop the spirit that was moving in her. She just kept saying, Gary, Gary, Gary, as if she was enjoying it. I don't know. Or she was going, Gary, Gary, why are you stabbing me? Stop, Gary.

Gary, please stop stabbing me. This is insane. Oh, my God. Quote, when she stopped, jesus christ then he says she stopped moving and he washed himself he changed his clothes the same as before then um in his written statement because that's all the same as the oral statement then he says he writes i should say quote my stepmother started moving again as if a spirit was in her whoa i took the knife and started stabbing her again again that's why we get to 97 when i realized there spirit was in her whoa i took the knife and started stabbing her again again that's

why we get to 97 when i realized there was something in her that wouldn't stop moving that's when i started stabbing her in the head and heart i wanted to kill the spirit that seemed to be attacking my spirit so oh boy this guy's making uh having birds in your pocket to munch on sound pretty sane is he not yeah i mean this is this is what i mean spirit he would look at that guy with wide-eyed admiration of like wow he's so sane and together like he's so yeah uh spirit i this is before that michael michael j fox movie came out with like that that death that came out of the wall you know what i mean what was that one called i Fuck, man. I forget. I don't remember. Something about spirits or something?

I don't remember. It was a good movie. It was shaky spirits. I'm not sure. It was actually pretty decent. Jittery something. The plot of it was decent. I'm not positive.

Good Lord. I'm not sure. He'd be a bad TV show chef. Putting way too much oregano in something. Oh, yeah. No good. This is the saltiest chicken I've ever had. Although he could chop an onion in no time.

Okay, that's enough. Sorry. Right now. We like Michael J. Fox. Everyone likes Michael J. Fox. He's a wonderful, kind, little, funny Canadian man. It's impossible not to love him. We want him to be healthy.

And I feel like if the jokes are good enough, he'd like them, too. I'm just being honest. He's a funny guy i'll bet he's got a really good one he's got better than anyone probably that's when uh when he was on curb your enthusiasm like they did so much with that really it's like yeah where he would like he spilled the soda on larry and he's like sorry parkinson's larry's like it wasn't the fucking like he's telling he's like he's fucking said it was the parkinson's it wasn't the fucking parkinson's it was just a regular shake it wasn't the fucking he's telling he's like he's fucking said it was the Parkinson's it wasn't the fucking Parkinson's it was just a regular shake it wasn't a Parkinson's shake he did that shit on purpose and he's like he lived above Larry in this apartment in New York and he said he wears these heavy boots and he's stomping around he's like I have to wear those it's the Parkinson's man he's like bullshit he's just fucking doing it to irritate me so Michael J

Fox has a very good sense of humor about this shit uh so yeah uh jesus christ so again he changed his clothes that's why he ended i think he just he went through all his clothes that's how he ended up in stretch pants okay uh he said but again at this point she's fucking moving again oh boy so now we're on our third outfit change it's like a it's like a lady gaga concert at this point got Got several outfit changes. It's very dramatic. Because you end up in a meat dress. Yeah.

Or stretch pants and then a fucking house goat. Because he stabbed her, changed, came back, stabbed her. Now he's got to go in her closet and get her clothes. The thing is, he said he changed, but again, she was moving. Oh, God. So he said, God damn it. I got to fucking keep stabbing her again and then i gotta change again yeah so he ended up doing like three outfit changes and then he left he was like man i can't do it anymore there's one squirmy ass spirit she's got into that one i don't know what the

fuck to do here so uh now he has been diagnosed in the past as a paranoid schizophrenic, as you might imagine he was. He's been repeatedly institutionalized over the years. This isn't the first time. No. He's the guy where, like I said, he's in and out of an institution, and then he goes to their house, and then he's there for a few days, and they don't hear from him for a week, and then he comes back, and then they put him back. This is probably his whole life this has been going on.

In and out of places. Yeah. And most of it's not criminal as far as he hasn't been going on in and out of places yeah and most of it's not criminal as far as he hasn't been a violent criminal before this or anything like that this is the first manifestation of like a truly violent act or anything like that it's just manifested in different ways that have put him yeah the care of others and now it's manifested in whoa the worst way possible holy shit so they're investigating the murder and they're looking for, you know, I mean, he doesn't dispute that he stabbed the shit out of her.

That's several. I mean, he just told you right away how many times he did it, his outfit changes and everything else. During the investigation, they find a pubic hair on the victim's knee, on Marie's knee and another one in her hand. Oh, OK. So she's got two, but's got two individual pubic hairs. Super far from each other.

Yeah, far from each other. Now, they took samples from him, obviously, pubic samples from Gary. Gar. Oh, Gar. Let's get them pubes, Gar. Come on, Gar. They plucked a couple of 1980 things

that were like eight inches long. Pluck a couple of those bad boys out. There's plenty. Plenty to go. Plenty. Oh, here you go. I got a lot. I could make a wig out of it.

Looks like sprouts. Oh, yeah. So I got a chia pet down here. So they get samples from him. They compare him. They compare the pubic hairs and all that sort of thing. And we'll talk about that in a minute. Now, prior to the the trial he makes a motion

to to just dismiss this whole thing we throw it all on the ground of insanity he's like look i'm crazy we shouldn't be here right uh so they say no no we're going to charge you with premeditated first degree murder oh as a matter of fact uh this is a life in prison type situation you know this isn't 15 years this isn't oh, oh, manslaughter, you poor thing. We're hanging on to you forever. We're going to keep you locked up for a while here. So his defense was that he was insane at the time he committed the offense, which, I mean, if you're going to say you're insane,

you better display this type of behavior. This is crazy when they say this type of shit. His statement certainly supports it. His statement, his actions. His diagnosis. It's all there. It's all laid out. say this type of shit statement certainly supports it his statement his actions his diagnosis it's all everything it's all there it's all laid out you can look at this and go this story from start to finish diagnosis institutionalize it's got all the makings of of a marie calendar yeah yeah it's a fuck it's a it's a piece like a chicken one yeah it. Not even one of the beef ones. Good cubes. A chicken one.

Dry. Good cubes of dry chicken. Yeah, good cubes of dry. Good dry chicken cubes. So he also doesn't want the pubic hairs to be admitted into evidence. The state says the admission of the hair and related testimony is essential to the identification of him as the assailant. And, you know, because he's saying, I'm crazy, so you shouldn't even question me. Why should that be allowed in?

So he says they end up letting the hair in. And he says that it may have been relevant. But they said that since the the state has two confessions and everything else, why are they bringing it in? By the way, they also have his bloody foot and palm prints at the scene of the crime as well yeah so they have confession physical it's he did this there's no dan he's even saying he didn't you know he's not denying barefoot yeah is it a bare footprint yeah it's a foot oh boy it says uh it says radial it's pretty it's pretty impressive it's all season all season it's actually just a chain mark got his snow chains on you know how that goes yeah now they're saying that the the defense is

saying look the two pubic hairs to let them in is highly prejudicial because uh it's raising an unsubstantiated inference of a sexual attack. To say there was pubic hairs, the jury is automatically going to infer something sexual went on that we're not hearing about because they hear pubic hair, they think sexual. Pants are off. Pants are off. Whereas it could have been he showers in this shower

and his pubic hair was in it and it's got on her like that. Got it. That could be the case. Or he has them in his pocket. Who knows? pocket or he's got he just sprinkles him around he might go places and like you know make a purchase over the counter and then sprinkle pubic hair like it's fairy dust he thinks he's gonna disappear he can't see me now if i sprinkle pubic hair in front of myself i disappear he's nuts that's what i mean you don't know what he's thinking so yeah there was no sexual attack whatsoever this is not a sexual thing and uh so he's saying this could only inflame the passions

of the jury and make it seem i'm on his side a worse thing yeah absolutely second you said it i'm like why is he fucking her knee that's yeah exactly you hear pubic hair and you hear down there there is dick all over what's going on j. He's got a dick from from hand to knee. He's going everywhere. That's exactly right. So they said that. Yeah. Later on, that'll be talked about, too, here.

By the way, they call it later on. They're talking about it and they're saying how it's later on. They would say it is urged that the two pubic hairs were at best cumulative and highly prejudicial, raising an unsubstantiated inference of some sort of sexual attack by Mr. Cameron. Now, prejudicial pubic hair is a great name for a metal band. Hell yeah. That I will say. I will use that as my comedy special.

Prejudicial pubic hair is phenomenal. There is no heads or tails of that fucking name. That's great. I wish we could call this podcast a bad name prejudicial pubic care look out for our new podcast coming out in march prejudicial pubic care where we'll talk about i don't fucking know anything but pubic care anything because that's prejudicial yeah so now the state here their argument is that uh obviously the evidence is here. They're entitled to show all the circumstances surrounding the killings. And he pled not guilty.

So he raised the issue of identity by pleading not guilty. So we're going to identify him. The pubic hair can identify him to the scene. So that's going to be a further. Now we have the fingerprint and the handprint. The footprint is a confession and a fucking pubic hair. So, yeah, that's how it works here uh also they they say uh uh they say that the the the law on this one is because it's all about probative value

versus it's all a fucking weight thing as far as is it more prejudicial than it is probative it's it's it's fucking annoying here uh now uh so also the fbi agent could not actually identify the pubic hair as coming from him all he could say was it was similar of a similar type which 90 of people have similar pubic hair have you ever seen a pube that was specific to is it blonde or red well then it's the same as everyone else's. I don't know what the fuck to tell you. African-American, Italian, white. Same pubes. That's it. They all look the same.

Same pubes. If they're black, they're all the same. If they're any other color, then that's easily. They're black and curly. That's it. Curly as fuck. So, yeah. He stated, though, that the experts stated that the hair could only could have not could only have.

He just stated it could have originated from him. So they have two pubes and they're like, could have been from him. And they want to introduce that as evidence in a trial, which is very prejudicial with the with the whole, like we said, fucking thing. Now, also, they bring in evidence that about two months before this, we're talking April of 1980, Marie Cameron. Now I want to say calendar, too. Thanks. Marie visits her daughter in California. Okay.

Okay. Sorry. California sounds too close to calendar. Yeah. Marie Cameron visits her daughter in California. She got there very quickly. Her broomstick, it's a direct, as the bird flies. You know how it works.

It's a crow fly. You just go, yeah, it's a crow fly right there. So it's easier that way. She just took the old stick. Sorcery. Sorcery. She's got it. She's a scarlet horror beast.

So that's what happens. Clearly. Obviously. Scarlet horror beast. Scarlet horror beast. That's such a, ah. I don't. That's a burner. Could that beore beast that's such a i don't that's a burner could not be the name of the episode i don't even know if we can have scarlet whore beast be the name of the episode will itunes allow whore in there i want to call a woman that in

an argument scarlet whore beast that sounds like something in like the 1700s you'd call someone a woman had a skirt on above her ankle and scarlet whore beast get her from thy streets away from thy children how did will ferrell not go there instead of dirty pirate hooker yeah oh scarlet whore beast what the fuck man that's incredible it's it's something i'll say it's fucking something that's a burner so now he objects to to the daughter testifying here the daughter who was in california was visited by marie cameron uh but they let it in uh the daughter testifies that marie told her that she'd been having problems with gary yeah and she was afraid of gary and that sort of shit also they had uh um the they had uh gary's uh father there say that

one of the reasons she went to california for that trip was it was getting too it was getting too hard with gary so it was like she was afraid of gary and taking a vacation from her home from her home because gary's a little too out there and she went there to tell her daughter i'm here because gary's fucking out there but this is also hearsay yeah this is not this is hearsay there's no proof that this happened this is just a person hearing that and then saying she said she was afraid but it's her husband but it's her husband or daughter that's close to her oh absolutely definitely now the state argues that that's admissible. It's an exception to the hearsay rule because it establishes the victim state of mind as it relates to the issue of self-defense, which is his claim of, you know, Scarlet Horror

Beast had to defend myself. That's literally his court claim. Yeah. Duh. I'm crazy. Number one. Number two. I mean, Scarlet Horror Beast, you've done the same thing.

So I'm in the right here. You all get it. Everybody gets it here. Duh. So, yeah they they argue that it's it's admissible here uh the self-defense is really not an issue uh it's a non-issue because okay uh it was right they were saying that it was raised solely by the state because he said that in his statement but in his official this is my case he's just saying he's crazy he's not saying self-defense so now the state is trying to like they're saying they're heading off a self-defense defense but they're he's not making that defense so it's it's

one of those things they're just trying to stack they're trying to stack as much evidence as they can which you don't i don't even think you need seems Seems like they're trying to mitigate any type of, what's the word? After the conviction, what's those other things? Appeals. There you go. Trying to stop those. Seems like they're trying to make appeals for him. They're giving him all these appealable things.

Giving him opportunities. Yeah, they're giving him appealable. They're trying to stack evidence that. This is a prosecutor that wants to get his conviction rate. He wants to get his conviction and then fuck appeals. That's not my problem anymore. I don't care. I got my conviction.

I can go on TV for reelection and go, I have a 97% conviction rate on violent crimes. That's all that fucking matters. So they said that the self-defense, the state says the self-defense was an issue because his confessions are admitted into evidence and he brings up self-defense in there. So we want to head it off at the pass. So that's their argument. They say the attempt to justify the killing by the fact that she possessed a knife. That's what he originally said.

And there's no assertion of self-defense in the true legal sense. He said he stabbed her because she was, quote, symbolic with the scarlet whore beast and was very much into sorcery and taking God's truth and twisting it into sorcery. I'm no lawyer, but it seems like this case would be easier tried with just few words on your part. Use all his words. Just use his words. And just be like, you heard him, right? Just turn and go, huh? Right?

So, guilty. Bring in the medical examiner to describe how horrific it is and then go let's read his statements right are we good all right oh did we mention how we found him we rest that's it we're good here now he can he can get up there and explain if he wants to enjoy we've given you all the reason in the world to express doubt or express guilt yeah that beyond yeah reasonable doubt so he's gonna be by the way there's a bunch of psychiatrists that are going to talk about this because he was definitely seen by four different medical professionals. While in the joint. To get opinions for this trial because clearly they knew mental health is going to be an issue.

Fuck yeah. They also say self-defense was mentioned again because in the direct examination of Dr. Jarvis, who we'll talk about, he's one of the doctors, they said that the necessity to defend himself was under the direction of God. In his mind, he's this doctor saying that Gary thinks that God told him to defend himself from a witch or, quote, one of Satan's angels, obviously. Clearly. So so you know that was that clearly i mean she's got a knife she's one of satan's angels scarlet horror beast let's get it on so all satan's angels what are the differences that's what he's saying that's like another word tomato tomato aka satan's angels just to make it a little more you know one of those things wow so the uh the state's cross-examination of these people here, the self-defense was only connected with delusions, basically. Also, he was not acting in self-defense or anything like that.

They said that maybe that would be an insane delusion, but not self-defense. It can't be both. It either was real or not. So it was either really self-defense or he's just crazy and thought it was self-defense i'm on board which either way yeah uh he wanted to send a sorceress it was he's acting under god's order to send a sorceress to another life that's what he's saying he was doing here so uh is he crazy yeah well he uh according to these documents here, the court documents, he was demonstrating, and this is as of 1980-something. So the DSMs have changed remarkably since then. Oh, yeah.

We've had a few more cases. Guides to mental health and all this type of shit. But he's demonstrating two of the characteristic symptoms of schizophrenia as described in the DSM from back then. Disorganized thinking and grossly disorganized behavior. He's doing that. There's two of the five characteristic symptoms which make this up here. And the subject must exhibit two of the symptoms in an active phase. And the condition must exist, must persist for at least six months.

That's how you're clinically this. So if the delusions are bizarre like him, then there's only like his because his are, if you're saying Scarlet Horror Beast, then you only need one of these things to happen. Literally, that's what it says. That's awesome. If it's something

bizarre like that, then you can cut you only need one. He's just crazy enough in that one he can stand on one leg of crazy that's how sturdy it is like the dmv to get a duplicate driver's license you need your driver's license or you need your your current driver's license or uh or uh any sort of state documentation but if you've got your current driver's license you only need like a medical bill yeah yeah exactly if you don't have current driver's license, you only need like a medical bill. Yeah, yeah, exactly. If you don't have your driver's license, you need the other shit.

Yeah. But if you've got that one, we'll give you a duplicate. There you go. Knock yourself out. Southwest gas bill. That stinks. This is the equivalent of a Southwest gas bill. That's exactly what it was.

So, Jesus Christ. So, his, wow. His testimony here, the testimony of the psychiatrist and psychologist, there's some disparity among them, as doctors are never going to agree on anything. It was three psychiatrists, Drs. Jarvis, Allison, and Bremmer, and a psychologist, Dr. Trowbridge, were all called to testify. They all agreed that he suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. That is not debatable. And I really agree. I don't think that is debatable

here i'm not a doctor but he sounds fucking he's right up the alley he's yeah he would so far down the middle of it he'd cause a 7-10 split for the fucking sure just right in this head pin oh boy so uh uh he says that uh um they agreed he's suffering from paranoid schizophrenia both at the time of the killing and at the time of the trial. It's not like, oh, I was crazy then. I'm good now. Oh, you're still crazy. Don't worry. Still rocking it.

They said, although they all stated it differently, all four appeared to agree that he believed he was an agent of God required to carry out God's directions. They all believe him. They don't think he's making this shit up just to get out of a fucking murder. making this shit up just to get out of a fucking murder uh they also agreed that uh he believed that god commanded him to kill marie cameron and that she he was therefore obligated to kill the evil spirit as directed by god he's a good guy god's fucking telling me what to do what am i supposed to do spit in his face oh boy so that's what he's saying so uh all doctors four of them prosecutions the defense everybody concurs he's legally insane at the time of the murder. Everybody says that.

Everybody's on board. Everyone except the prosecutor. I hope they all go talk to each other after. Did he tell you this? Did he tell you this? Dude. Fucking what about this? I got a story for you.

This is the type of guy where, like, the robin guy yeah we had a lot of like his psychological records we had like uh you know they studied that guy like a college level and shit like this guy we don't have any of that no nothing exists no it doesn't exist oh they need to check in on him this is the least covered thing we've ever done i think probably this and that and the one with the the one that drove us crazy us crazy in Nevada with the kid in the trailer who we didn't know if he did it or not. The footsteps in the snow. And I've had people that are involved in the trial.

They're like, he totally didn't. I'm like, I don't know. Motherfucker. Yeah. And then I have people like, I don't know. So it's that kind of shit. So this, there's no doubt. We did it at least here.

So they all agreed all of this shit. They expressed their, they said it in different ways but they said that they all agreed that he thought it was uh that he thought it was a a mechanical thing in his mind it was just a mechanical thing get rid of the spirit god's happy with you you're good uh he was trying to kill his stepmother and he knew it was against the laws of man because he even said it in his confession legally i know it's wrong but listen as we talked about an explanation yeah they do stress though that at the time he was preoccupied with delusional beliefs that his stepmother was an agent of satan who was persecuting him by the way this is when it comes up when he talked to these psychiatrists she wasn't the only

one persecuting him no there was a lot of people out for him. Really? Yeah. Not just his stepmom. Other people. Yasser Arafat was also persecuting him. Yes, Yasser Arafat. The leader of Iran? No, no. Where was he?

What? Yasser Arafat. Yeah. What was he the leader of? Palestine. Palestine. Palestine. Yes.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Not Iran. Middle East. Yeah. Palestine. I get it. A Palestinian leader here.

Oh, not only him. Uh-huh muslims here they knew that he's an agent of god right so they're trying to this is his thing so uh his three people were really persecuting him his stepmom all in the name of satan his stepmom the scarlet horror beast uh yasser arafat the palestinian leader a cool nickname too and the ayatollah kameni also boy the iranian yeah you know iran as well there you go so uh the ayatollah at the time who had just taken over and there was a hostage situation and all that sort of thing that's his triad that's his triad it is my stepmom yeah scarlet horror beast ayatollah and yasser Arafat. They're all persecuting him. Okay. Okay.

He believed that he was directed by God to kill Satan's angel, and by doing so, he was obeying God's higher order directive. He said, that's a higher law than man's law. Yeah. Man, we can all make up what we want, but when God decides something, none of that matters. That's what he said. I mean, Jesus Christ, Scarlet Horror Beast,ast fucking duh so he's one of those things he said that at that point um at the time that he was talking to psychiatrists he believed that he did what he needed to do and now he's a messiah oh boy he's in fact um a messiah not the messiah but a messiah and he says basically i'm

like jesus christ basically i'm not jesus but i'm i'm you know on the playing field it's like like if there was a social club like me and jesus would go to the same social club and hang out like we belong to the same we golf together i don't i don't force them in the morning i don't do anything uh amazing like um turn water to wine or or or split fucking oceans i don't do any of that no all. All I do is stab women. Yeah. And then I'm amazing. But I'm following God's directives. And I vanquish the scarlet whore beast, Jimmy.

What the fuck? I get no credit for vanquishing the scarlet whore beast. I get nothing for that. No, I'm Jesus. Duh. Fucking pay attention. This is incredible. That's what I mean.

Oh, boy. There's a lot here to unpack did anybody ever tell yasser arafat i i don't know well the ayatollah yeah he was like how did he know how do they know he knows every time gary god damn it gerber gerber screams from a fucking he's gotta know i hope somebody told him that's so great by the way do you know that yeah hey yasser arafat do you know that you caused some crazy fuck to kill his mom and stepmom stepmom and washington so he and in fact compared himself i love the step this is from a psychiatrist report at this time he believes himself to be the messiah and in fact compares himself to jesus christ so there's that i would take from that what you will written down it's written down uh the doctors all pointed out they said in different ways that because of his

delusional belief he felt god had directed him to send his stepmom from this life to another yeah he was getting the evil spirits out of her and then God would take care of the rest and move her on to another plane or something. You know how it works. Yeah. We all know how that goes. Planes and devils and spirits. You yank them out and then they're as good as new.

Horbis. On the other side. On the other side, yeah, they're fine. No longer a Horbis. Yeah, he had, then you're good. He said he had no remorse over the killing at all because he was doing a good thing. He felt it was justified by God and he was merely doing at all because he was doing a good thing he felt it was

justified by god and he was merely doing a service he was doing a service that says quote he felt he would generally be protected from any difficulties because quote god would not allow that to happen so you know no one was going to arrest him because god's going to protect him from it because he's doing god's will are those handcuffs tight enough, yeah. I think we should tighten them up a little more. Has he got shackles on? Let's shackle him. I mean, you know, it's like, you know, a mob boss isn't going to tell you to kill somebody then turn you into the cops.

He's going to protect you, you know, and say, give you an alibi and hire you a lawyer. No. Apparently, God left him out to dry. Jesus. Fucking hung him out to dry, man. It's bullshit. So they said the legal test for insanity, the mental health experts said that while he understood it was against the law to kill, he believed he was responding to God's directive. He's killing a demon, sorceress, or evil spirit.

Thus, they say in the court documents, while technically he understood the mechanical nature of the act, he did not have the capacity to discern between right and wrong with reference to the act, because he thought that was a fine thing to do. Now, some of the doctors expressed a view that at the time of the killing, he was unable to appreciate the nature and quality of his acts, and nobody said that he did. One of the doctors said they're not sure if he appreciated it or not, but nobody said, oh, he knew what he was doing. Nobody said that. They all say say what makes you crazy legally is whether you can appreciate the nature and quality of your acts and the consequences

that's what makes you that's the that's legal or that's why you could have the the craziest crazy diagnosis and they still just put you in prison because they changed that shit in the 70s they changed the laws to where that was what it had to be now you had to not know literally be so out of your mind that what you don't know what you're doing is wrong so that's how often does that happen and he even said i know i knew this was illegal i knew it was wrong i know it's wrong but let me tell you what happened here uh so they they said that yeah the pair it's a lot about the jury instructions basically the trial court gives an instruction to the jury. Now, what they do is they add an extra piece to it is the problem.

They add a thing about right and wrong at the end of it, which is you're not really supposed to do here. It says for a defendant to be found not guilty by reason of insanity. You must find that as a result of mental disease or defect, the defendant's mind was affected to such an extent that the defendant was unable to perceive the nature and quality of acts with which the defendant is charged or was unable to tell right from wrong with the reference to this particular acts to which they're charged. So they add that in there. And I guess the right or wrong thing is not the standard jury instruction. It doesn't contain that.

That's the problem here and it's all about literally how they instructed the jury on insanity because the law doesn't matter it's how the judge instructs the law instructs the jury to interpret it because they don't fucking know they're not lawyers they're just literally being given a bunch of information then being told how to interpret that information and put it into very you know compartmentalize these crimes in in in line with these uh guidelines of what this law says exactly exactly so uh yeah so they added that in there uh now uh there's another case here this crenshaw case that we'll talk about here that they compare this to a lot uh because these cases were kind of tied together here uh they said the uh the narrow exception to this whole thing they said that uh the narrow narrow exception to the societal standard of moral wrong has been drawn for instances

where a party performs a criminal act knowing it's morally and legally wrong but believing because of a mental defect that the act is ordained by god this is a case called crenshaw which uh is from like the this happened like right before while this was going on these cases were being decided so it's gonna happen there uh such such would be the situation with a mother who kills her infant child to whom she's devotedly attached uh devotedly attached believing god had spoken to her and decreed the act. Something like that. Although the woman knows that the law and society condemn the act, it would be unrealistic to hold her responsible for the crime since her free will has been subsumed by her belief in a deific decree.

And a deific decree is what they call this. That's an actual legal thing now. After Crenshaw anderon's going to be in this gary too uh deific decree they're going to add that to the list of shit that gets you kind of off on your mental illness if you literally thought that you were an agent of god wow it's okay moses brought you a tablet and the tablets yeah drown your baby yes that's it we did it now uh in crenshaw they say one who believes that is that he's acting under the direct command of god is no less insane because he

nevertheless knows murder is prohibited by the laws of man indeed uh it may actually emphasize his insanity because they're saying that that shows how much how even crazier he is yeah he's not just like oh this is fine he's like i it's here, but God is such a stronger voice. I mean, obviously he's parsing like weighing, which is a heavier fucking thing to follow. Should I follow God or the laws of man? I don't know. Like that's even nuts, more nuts. So they said that there's considerable evidence from which the jury could have concluded he

suffered from mental disease. He believed his stepmother was Satan's angel and the whole deal here uh so uh uh the last paragraph of the trial court's thing with the right or wrong is a big deal here so they go out the jury uh how'd you like to be on this jury oh holy shit oh um they've been instructed pretty poorly on insanity and uh not what the current law is going to end up being while this case goes through appeals and he is found guilty okay so not a big surprise there i don't think anyone expected him to walk he said he did it in great detail uh sentencing you sir may fuck off life in prison yeah without without don't need him i don't know

if it's with or without on this one i could could not find that here. But he got life. But he got life. And grounds for appeal here, though, he also has. They said that he doesn't challenge the charge that he stabbed her numerous times and she died as a result. Further, there does not seem to be any serious question that except for the defense of insanity, the stabbing wasn't done with an intent to kill. The challenge here in this appeal focuses on three errors having denied him a fair trial uh one the definition of insanity in such a way as to prevent the jury's consideration of his insanity defense with the right or wrong thing to the admission of foreign pubic hairs found in the victim's body that's a pop band

foreign pubic hairs problematic pubic hairs obviously or what was it what was the other one i don't know uh uh prejudicial prejudicial pubic hairs so yeah prejudicial and what's this one foreign pubic hairs that's like it's like a new wave band it's some asian yes foreign pubic hairs the dancer six guys with the same haircut just to adopt a different color one guy's pink one guy's yeah it's about fucking Taurus to South Korea

unreal and three the admission of hearsay evidence from an alleged statement made by the victim two months prior to her murder so there's a challenge on that now the first appeal doesn't go well for him i'm sure the first appeal uh affirms the guilty verdict but it also grants his petition for review so it says you're guilty but we're going to keep that but we'd like to review this thing because it's ongoing with this crenshaw case of if god tells you to fucking kill, then you're OK.

Now, 1983 is when his big appeal comes around with all this shit on the table here. They talk about the pubes, prejudicial pubes a lot here. They said the grant, the state had the burden of establishing that that Gary was indeed the killer. The record makes clear, however, makes clear, however, that at no time throughout the trial did Gary deny he killed his stepmother. However, makes clear, however, that at no time throughout the trial did Gary deny he killed his stepmother. So thus, at best, the challenged evidence was needlessly cumulative and unchallenged of unchallenged relevant facts of an undenied killing. So the appeals court doesn't like the pube thing there at all.

Also, they said note is a note is of interest wherein it's stated unfair prejudice within its context means undue tendency to suggest decision on an improper basis. Basically suggesting that he fucked her. Yeah, I don't like it at all. Yeah, I don't like that at all. I hate that they brought it in. Yeah. It really fucks things up. Yeah, they say the admission of two pubic hairs, their relevance depending solely on the slender read that they could have originated from the petitioner, which they don't know if it is.

Doesn't matter. Doesn't even match up. Even if it does match up, they wouldn't be relevant. I like to quote Tim from Stevie and go, doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Only two people know what happened. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

The pubes, doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Did he rape her? Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. It's the truth. That's the thing.

Even if it is, even if those pubes 100% are back, they didn't have it, but DNA matched him. It still doesn't matter. He could have ripped those out after stabbing her and threw them all over her body. If he didn't rape her, who gives a fuck? If I told you that after he kills someone, he sprinkles pubes on them, would you think it was any outside the realm of possible in this case? No.

Yeah, that's what he does. Sounds about right. Yeah, it's a signature fucking that trap there you go uh so yeah the slender read that it actually originated from him would place before the jury both unnecessary and unfair prejudicial evidence that would divert from the facts which should control their verdict instead of leading strictly to identify the assailant and the nature of the evidence would strongly tend to suggest a possible sexual attack or sexual abuse, a suggestion wholly unsupported by the record. In sum, there was an objectionable tendency to prejudice the jury without any exigency of proof to make it necessary or important that the cause be proved in that manner. So, in other words, we're going to reverse the decision yeah they were

reversing the uh the guilty oh boy here uh reversing the trial court on this issue now we're gonna talk about this crenshaw for a second because they keep comparing him with the crenshaw now crenshaw stabbed his wife 27 times this guy here he later returned well that's what i mean well he does he tried he has an encore really that's just his regular stage opener for his encore he comes back decapitates oh my fuck and then buries her remains in a hidden place wow so you know he's a little different but in three days she'll be right back it's she'll be back no problem yeah because jesus told me to do it yeah uh now in in crenshaw there was testimony by medical experts that he had delusions

and of grandeur religiosity including a belief in his possession of special powers auditory hallucinations lack of insight and extreme emotional liability it's a fucking mess this crenshaw guy a psychiatrist testified that crenshaw was suffering from a paranoid state uh and was in remission from former psychotic episodes he had a history of mental problems he was hospitalized 15 times in eight years for being a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic this crenshaw guy had a lot going on is there a dateline of that because i'd like to send that to my ex-father-in-law you should actually is this who you were going for uh crenshaw said he knew he killed his wife and his wife and it was violating the law.

But he believed that he had a duty to do it under the teaching, the teachings of his Moscovite religious beliefs. OK, so he's saying he's Moscovite. No, Moscovite's a Russian. Oh, geez. Yeah, it's this Russian. It's like a place where they worship. No, it's like an ancient like it's not even a religion, really. It's sort of a. I don't want to get into whether it is or not, but no, it's like an ancient like it's not even a religion really it's sort of a i don't want to get into this but no it's like an ancient belief system this

moscovite shit so that's what he believed and so he had like some sort of like weird middle ages thing going on where he thought he was a i don't fucking know here now with gary medical experts they say testified that he suffered from paranoid, both at the time of the trial and the killing. He said, I felt he related his feelings about the incident by saying, I felt confused. I felt no different from the beginning. Then the end, there was no difference. And legally, I know it's against the law, but as far as right and wrong in the eye of God, I would say I did no particular wrong. He believed that God commanded him to kill the scarlet horror beast.

He said that he knew it was against the law to kill, but it's an evil spirit. You got to do it. So they said that despite the state's reliance on self-defense argument to justify its challenged hearsay evidence, no one, including the state, submitted a self-defense instruction. So they claim that he was going to claim self-defense, but no one brought that up other than the one thing he said in his confession. But that wasn't his legal defense. No, and that's what it would have to be. He would have to be claiming self-defense with the jury.

Otherwise, it's not. So the jury could have only considered the testimony as it related to the killing and the insanity. So, yeah. Testimony is it related to the killing and the insanity? So, yeah, they said a narrow exception to the societal standard of moral wrong has been drawn, for instance, is when a party performs a criminal act knowing it's morally and legally wrong, but ordained by God, as we talked about here. So that's the crunch. That's what's known as the Crenshaw exception. Now, that's a different thing. They said Crenshaw performed his dastardly murder.

This is out of court document, by the way, believing he had a duty to do it under the teachings of his Moscow, Moscow, white religious beliefs. Cameron committed a very similar vicious murder on the basis that God commanded him to kill his stepmother and that he was obligated to kill the evil spirit. I frankly don't see much or any distinction. this is a judge however in carrying out or executing a murder under the direction of god or crenshaw's moscovite religious beliefs are under the beliefs of a prophet or buddha or even paul newman yeah they said so it doesn't really matter yeah yeah which you are yeah to get real into this judge picked a pop culture reference from i don't know 62 well it's 1980 it's a good point it was a huge star back then so it's a giant star salad dressing no just a huge fucking movie star that's it paul newman so or paul newman or anybody you know so and he's a big fan of the hustler what do you want it's a sundance sundance

kid and butch cassidy likes him there i'm a butch guy you know so paul newman yeah which i mean this is this is you're digging in deep because you're you're you're trying to compartmentalize like the whether you're trying to say does it matter whether it's an established societal god or not or and they say they're saying that doesn't even matter whether he because he believes in god that doesn't give that, quote, belief any extra weight if it's real. No, no, no, no. Whether it would be Paul Newman or Buddha. Seventh-day Adventist. I don't know what the fuck they believe in, but whatever they pray to, if they kill in fucking servitude for that thing, put them in prison, too, or wherever the same person goes for killing for Jesus.

This guy's basically, I think, saying that god shouldn't get any extra weight no anyone's crazy and they think that whoever's telling them to do it it doesn't have to be god because you know he's saying legally i don't know the existence of god to say that this is real could be your neighbor's dog i don't give a shit exactly so he said this being the case hearsay testimony uh of the ex of the of her ex-husband and daughter could not have been relevant under the state of mind exception to the hearsay rule of the ex of the of her ex-husband and daughter could not have been relevant under the state of mind exception to the hearsay rule this is true because the victim state of mind itself was not relevant to any material

issue before the jury at best it bears only a remote or artificial relationship to the legal or actual or factual issues actually raised and was thus inadmissible so yeah how she felt about how Marie felt about whether she was scared of him or not is really fucking irrelevant it doesn't matter right he's is he fucking crazy

or not and the state just tried to add more and more and more and they ended up fucking themselves here uh they also seek to justify the challenged hearsay evidence by asserting it was relevant to prove premeditation once again we're compelled to disagree with the state's argument to the extent that the hearsay testimony was admitted to prove the petitioner thought the process petitioner's thought process. So, yeah, he's saying that, yeah, it's not that at all. It doesn't matter whether it was premeditated or not, because he fucking said it himself that what he what he was doing.

So, again, superfluous. And finally, the Court of Appeals here indicates that if the trial did error by admitting the hearsay testimonies of the ex-husband and daughter, such error was harmless. That one was it is in the interest of the state. It is of interest. The state does not rely on the harmless error theory. Rather, the court's position rather than joined by the state uh he says we don't agree with any of their theories basically they said put the potential for misuse of the testimony or misunderstanding of its application is too great carrying with it a substantial likelihood of present prejudice to his case they can't agree that the error was harmless because that's what

the first appeal said this appeal says no and they said the hearsay testimony was not relevant to any material issue before the court it's inadmissible and uh the testimony was irrelevant and had no probative value therefore inadmissible therefore the court uh reverses and remands for a new trial yes consistent with this opinion now this is in the newspaper that that thing okay saying that he got his conviction tossed out and he's fine because of you know whatever the fuck directly underneath it i'm talking the article directly underneath right next one is about a teenage kid who was charged who was sent to prison for eight years for shoplifting he stole a pair of sunglasses and when they caught him he had a gun on him didn't pull it on anybody but the fact that he had a gun on him while he stole something made it an

armed robbery with a state minimum he's a teenage kid with a state minimum of uh of eight years in prison what a dipshit yeah carry that gun to do that dumb they said if he goes in without a gun he pays a 50 fine and walks out and that's it. But now he's going to prison for eight years. The judge says, I don't think he deserves that. He said to sentence him to eight years in prison is terrible. So that's directly different. This guy's fine and then this kid's getting

eight fucking years in prison. So it's crazy, man. So this case now, the Cshaw and cameron have become precedents for crazy basically here uh and it's it's it's relying on its decision here the court makes makes it clear that uh a defendant following uh deific commands uh qualifies as insane only if his free will has been subsumed by his belief in the deific decree so he has to really believe it basically here has to believe it's a a uh a command of god uh also extraterrestrials qualify as well in there yeah this is it's literally legally or an extraterrestrial you

never know i mean whatever they believe in here uh so great is that the god and extraterrestrials are the same thing it's legally same shit we don't care a voice yeah that's not it doesn't exist that's all we know so uh you cannot prove exists yeah uh it's so fucking funny here so so they they talk about too they really get into i looked up all this shit to kind of get into this i i'm fascinated by the fact that you're crazy sometimes and you're not crazy sometimes even if you're super crazy you're not super crazy unless you're it's a specific kind of crazy right i'm really fascinated by our legal system and how it defines because i really feel like there's a lot of people who are mentally ill and severely

mentally ill that commit crimes that we just send to prison. Whereas, you know, years ago they would be in hospitals and the prisons not treating them for that. Oh, no, no, no, no. For perpetuating that mental illness and making it worse and worse and worse. Oh, God. Yeah. And then if they are ever freed upon whatever. Oh, Christ.

They're even crazier. It's way more violent. And they're unleashed. And they're tempered to this shit now. You are creating a legit fucking Frankenstein monster. Yeah, yeah. So one of these, I found this, that's true. I found, like, there's legal discussions, big legal breakdowns about what all this means.

And they say, if a compulsion, if it is a compulsion, does it matter if God is speaking? If it's not a compulsion, is the person really insane? So they said, the question goes to another contradiction. Deific decree makes sense only as a volitional category with the defendant unable to resist a command hallucination. So it has to be. It's so. Dude, this is so fucking. You got to stop with specifics.

Yeah, man. You got to backtrack and make it wider. Who the fuck knows, man? This is crazy. They talk about the backtrack and make it wider. Who the fuck knows, man? This is crazy. They talk about the deific degree is culturally archaic, a holdover from a time when secular and church courts were merged. It used to all be one. A doctrine of mercy in line with the church's often humane treatment of the mentally ill back in the day. Deific degree may once have been a positive force because you'd have somebody out there going,

it's the scarlet beast. And she raided my farm and I needed, you know, shit like that. As the doctrine which treats the religiously religious mentally ill differently from the secularly mentally ill is unfortunate. That's the thing. A large reflection of cultural moment as a reflection of a cultural moment is a part of the past. I agree with this. This is what I'm saying. Why is it fair for you?

Let's say I get a voice. Let's see. I just hear a fucking voice. Let's say my version of you tells me to fucking kill someone in my head. How is that different from someone who believes in God? Why is it way heavier? Because he believes in God. This is fucking America.

God's not in the Constitution as far as you know he's not a citizen right you know right we should throw my father-in-law in prison for thank you kirk cameron uh thank you matter of fact kirk cameron should be thrown in prison this episode is brought to you by the fact that kirk cameron should be in the fucking slammer now someone go put that fucker in creating voices and thoughts in people's heads that are inaccurate. So what do they do then for this? So he's going to end up, from what I can find, he ends up pleading on some sort of hospitalization, prison, weird.

There's some sort of deal that is not really a, I can't find the public record of it all i can find is references like like archaic references to it so so they mark david chapman him and put him in a facility if they put him in a facility or if they ended up uh but i mean this guy could be fucking walking around oh my god he used to be in an over the cuckoo's nest place forever no and i can't find him right now. Really? If you can find Gary, it's Gary A. Campbell. Oh, that's too nice. Or Cameron, I'm sorry. Not Campbell.

Gary Campbell. Wrong person. Gary Campbell? Don't look for whoever Gary Campbell is, because that poor bastard did nothing. It's Gary Cameron. Gary A. Cameron. I looked for him a lot. Seems like a very common name.

It's very common. There's just a lot of them. And a guy like this, who just kind of drops off the face of the earth, it's kind of hard to find. I'll bet he drops off a lot. Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't know. That's the thing. Even if they let him out for that, he could be in hospitals

because he's just crazy. He was in and out of hospitals. Yeah, he was in and out of hospitals forever. 50s, maybe early 60s. 60-ish,s i think right now so he doesn't have a facebook he's long gone he might have if anyone has a facebook these are the people who are on facebook by the way these are the ones right here only a facebook only nothing else just a facebook to retweet political conspiracies and shit like that palestinian conspiracy he's one of these

people that when he gets pulled over by a cop he's like i'm a traveler i don't have to give you my id i'm sovereign whenever that happens i want a cop to just reach in grab and i i hate police brutality all this but whenever someone's like well i'm a sovereign traveler fuck you one guy said i the guy goes well you're driving in your car with no because something's wrong with this car don't break lights or something you're driving your car with none of this he goes i'm not driving in my car i'm traveling in my vehicle that's what he said right then i had to rip him out of the car and beat him to death on the side of the road you would have had you're useless sir people would have had to pull me off of him still

swinging and kicking going you cock you cock-sucking motherfucker. That's why I can't ever be a cop and couldn't ever be a cop. How fucking dare you? Don't you stand there and tell me that shit. Try to play semantics with me. I will fucking crush your skull under my nightstick. Stop with this I'm sovereign shit. You're not sovereign.

You're not. You know when you want to be sovereign? Go buy one of these fucking uncharted islands that aren't a part of it. Now you're sovereign. Do're not you know when you want to be sovereign go buy one of these fucking uncharted islands that aren't a part of it now you're sovereign do whatever the fuck you want but guess what you can't have roads and interstates and movie theaters you can't benefit from anything we got the dilapidated safeway you don't get any of that shit gone now remember what happened in build it yourself sovereign boy peter tried to claim sovereign nation thank you build it yourself sovereign boy peter tried to claim a sovereign nation thank you build it yourself sovereign asshole go ahead fuck out of here yeah fuck yourself so that is shelton

washington and uh that's like i said one of the weirder cases i could find ever and i'm like i don't know if this case i didn't know if it had enough but i'm like scarlet horror beast this needs to be out there how is this not no one publicized this that's a fascinating claim in court to say those words scarlet right of the judge's face the prosecutor was like the scarlet horror beast said it's crazy so i i needed to get some do this thing completely and we've got no closure no closure no fucking idea and i can't even find like poor marie idea and i can't even find like poor marie cameron i can't even find a fucking obituary on her it's like she's disappeared off the face of the earth i'm sure that her i'm sure that her i mean she definitely disappeared

off face you know i mean her corpse and everything but i'm sure her husband uh does not want anybody having any sort of not it's her son killed his ex-wife his son killed a woman that has nothing to do with him not even his mom no i don't know what his mom's all about i couldn't get that much oh my god not publicized enough to even find out but what a terrible story it's a fucking crazy story so happy new year yeah with that story welcome back fucking new year uh definitely if you did like that story there's a way to tell us about it it's very simple you can get on apple podcast that purple icon give us five stars it doesn't matter what you say say you're following instructions tell us your following directions tell us your

lock in the truck scarlet whore beast that's if it'll take it do it it probably won't take it but uh say i am the scarlet whore beast that would be fine as well. Scarlet Where Beast. Say that. Yeah. Because it won't take four. No, it won't take four. We'll get it. Or just Whore without the H. They won't know. War Beast?

War Beast. Or Whore without the E. There you go. They don't know. WHOR. Yeah, that's all. HOR. Just HOR.

HOAR. We're confusing people now. Thank you for the reviews. Thanks for being there that said also go over to shut up and give me murder.com for everything small town murder and crime and sports and please listen to crime and sports it's so crazy lately you're missing a lot and you don't have to like sports at all but most of all what you can get there are tickets to live shows everybody goodness me let's go through the list quickly just uh a few goodness me that

was my attempt at being corny i'm not good at it blow me down i'm not good at shit like that i don't have a lot of those phrases you know i just don't i'm not that kind of guy i'd rather say ah fuck your mother all right fuck your mother we're going to louisville go to louisville fucking everybody's mother in louisville yeah indianapolis february 15th we'll be fucking your mothers right there at the egyptian theater february 16th louisville lock up your mothers we'll be at the bomard theater march 13th and 14th san francisco california we're gonna have your mother yeah we're gonna have your mom tied up in the green room of cobs theater up up on the second floor there while i smoke a joint and hang out the window and look down at

the street like i do in that place. With Robin Williams' ghost. With Robin Williams' ghost standing over me. There are caricatures all over that room of just dead comedian after dead comedian. Every one of them's dead.

Like, Jesus, never let them put our name on the wall. We'd be fucking dead in no time. March 27th, Detroit, Michigan. Oh, yeah.

Holy shit, your mom's afraid of Detroit and you know it. So take her there at the Royal Oak Music Theater. The 28th and 29th in Cincinnati at Bogart's. Holy shit, that's going to be wonderful. 7th and 8th in Nashville are sold out.

There's a crime and sports in there, too. That's going to be wild. May the 8th, Austin, Texas at Emo's. I know that show's selling fast, too. Yeah, it's close. It's close, I think. So get those. May 9th, Oklahoma City.

We're going to Oklahoma. What? Please buy tickets. Do you know, Oklahoma City. We're going to Oklahoma. What? Please buy tickets. Do you know why we're going there? I know why. The agents called me yesterday and said there are a ton of mothers there. Oh, that makes sense. Fucking all these mothers.

Jesus. So many mothers in Oklahoma. I don't question it anymore. May 22nd, Boston, Massachusetts at the Historic Wilbur, which is, I think there's about eight tickets left. Yeah. Singles up in the balcony. Hell yeah.

It's worth it. Come there. It's a great theater. That's one of those theaters where the balcony might as well be right in front of the stage. It's one of the best theaters in the country. It's so beautiful. It's so, everything's close to the stage. I love it.

It's wonderful. It's like the Athenaeum in Chicago. Right. Just like that. It's made to have a balcony. It's not just extra seats that stuck up there. It was not an afterthought. No. They did it on purpose to have a balcony it's not it's not just extra seats no no it was not an afterthought no they did it on purpose to be really really well it's a great fucking san jose theater the improv there is very similar oh is it fucking cool i can't wait so cool sounds

good uh new york we're gonna be in brooklyn guys brooklyn on may 23rd at the murmur there so get your tickets those are going fast seattle's just about gone i think there's like i said five tickets and they're all singles at the neptune where are we at at this point what month uh we're at june june june portland fucking shows yeah portland uh sold out on june 6th june 7th is the second show at the aladdin and it is uh selling very fast new orleans at the joy in uh in july 31st 2020 august 1st in atlanta in Atlanta. Guys, people don't want to come to the South in the summer, in the extreme South, so help us out here. Jesus, we got talked into it.

Help us at the Buckhead, which we love. It's a great theater. Good air conditioning in there. So good. August 14th and 15th, we're at San Jose at the Improv, and then Sacramento, Ace of Spades. And I think Sacramento is sold out. So never mind that one.

September 11th and 12th, we were in Tampa and Orlando at the improvs there. Tampa, September 11th. Orlando, September 12th. So get your tickets there. Was it Tampa last time we did an improv? It was.

That place is great. That's a great club. So cool. Holy shit, that's a fun club. Staff is great. They're really good. It's good stuff. There are roosters

running around outside. That's bizarre. Ybor City, whatever. September 25th, San Diego at the Observatory. We loved that place last time. September 27th at the Brea Improv out there in Brea by LA. Washington, D.C., October 9th at the Fillmore.

Philadelphia, October 10th at the Fillmore as well there. Those are both really nice. They're great. Great staff, too. October 22nd in San Antonio at Laugh Out Loud. Wow, it's weird that we're going to San Antonio. Please buy your tickets. Dallas, Texas at the Majestic.

That place is fucking huge. Okay, that place is enormous. Please buy your tickets for that. Come to that show. Yeah. October 25th in Houston at the Houston Improv. That was a fun show last time. That was so great. Great club. November 6th in Milwaukee at the Papsrov. That was a fun show last time. That was so great.

Great club. November 6th in Milwaukee at the Pabst. That's another big, giant theater, so come see us there. November 7th in Madison at the Barrymore Theater. Those tickets are going very fast. November 19th in Pittsburgh, Munhall, PA, actually. Carnegie, this place is so nice. It looks like the boarding school from toy soldiers from the outside and the

inside it looks like a full philharmonic should be playing not us it looks like it's on the campus of yale it's bananas we're gonna fucking ruin that place so come come witness this it's really we have no business being there uh november 20th this is more like it cleveland at the hilarities now you're talking that's good you don't get any more different from those two nights uh november 21st the davidson in columbus ohio which is a real nice theater and rounding it out minneapolis on uh december 4th at the pantages back there again we loved it last time right in downtown and then december 5th we always close it up in chicago chicago's our adopted hometown we'll just say that here chicago illinois back at the athenaeum where we really had a good

time last time it's just lots of fun fucking incredible to to put together a show there on our own mind you yeah the first one we ever did anything our first show we ever did live shows were there where it was in the Lincoln Hall in Chicago. We didn't know if anyone would show up. Sold out two shows. Sold out Crime and Sports and Small Town Murder. You guys were so nice to us that we're just like Chicago's always our place.

We go back and it sells out. This is going to be our fourth time there. Fourth? Fifth? Fifth time there. We just got finished our fourth time there. Unbelievable. It gets better every time. The crowds there are just some of the best crowds in the country. We just got finished our fourth time there. Unbelievable. And it gets better every time. The crowds there are just some of the best crowds in the country. We love those Midwest crowds. You guys are fucking awesome.

I don't know if it's just because you're cold and happy to be in the heat or what. But thank you. Bailey and Jimmy, last time we were there, went out and drank him with us. They're the guy that runs the fucking, it's a car shop. He works on old cars. It's just people like that. Just Midwest, salt of the earth, rad fucking people. Really, really really cool people so fun to hang out with and they're gonna have legal weed now yeah i mean jesus christ could that could that city get any fucking better it's awesome

so do that also follow us on social media so you can get any updates if we add because there will be a show or two added to this tour and when things sell out and new shows are added you want to be on our social media to get those updates here. We are at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, and at Small Town Murder on Instagram there. And you can find us there. If you want to be a hero of ours, damn it,

an even bigger hero than anybody who really does anything for us, a hero, if you want to be our own personal Scarlet Whore beast, you can do that extremely easily by going to patreon.com slash crime in sports or heading over to paypal and using our email address crime in sports at gmail.com to make a one-time donation there and you can use that email address to send us any kind of case suggestions or anything you want like that

keep on doing that without further ado there's only one thing i can yeah only one thing that will cleanse my spirit and soul from this episode is it this list of swbs it's the list of our very goddamn special wonderful fucking people jimmy hit me with it like um i don't know a knife to the heart in the bathtub let's do it hit me with it like a scarlet horror beast this week's executive executive producers are Tyra Cates, Gary Howard, Mike Eitelag, I think, Brent Keister, Kerry Clark, Emily Togne, Dennis Prater, Brittany Helm, Tanya Volanek, Michael Dunbar, John Taylor, and Jordan Bennett. You guys don't know what to do for us.

Thank you, guys, so much. Thank you for everything this entire year. Truly. Thank you. You guys don't know what to do for us. Thank you, guys, so much. Thank you for everything this entire year, guys. Thank you.

Other producers this week are Debbie Chapman, Gemma Bowman, Azul Amil, Temri Iverson. I'm sure I got that wrong. Thomas Lovedall, which is really unbelievable. You poor bastard, Thomas. It's a Thomas Lovedall. It comes with an erect penis. Thomas is always in the mood. Unreal. Poor fuck.

Jacob Pilkington. Dana Barry. Brandon Schmalz. Dana Barrett? Dana Barry. Oh, Barrett. No, not Dana Barrett. Is that a person?

What is that name? I think that's Sigourney Weaver in Ghostbusters. You're probably right. I'm mistaken. Andrew Cricketmore? No, Crickmore. Yeah, Crickmore. That's bizarre.

Amanda with no last name. Justin Brooks. Lori Jackson. March Wilkins. Charlie and Sarah Spence, I imagine, because it said Charlie Sarah Spence. I think it's Charlie and Sarah. I think that's true. Or he's got an unusual middle name.

Or she does. Or she has an unusual first name. Right. Heather Monday. Nicole Coons. Austin Olsen. Jesse Thibodeau. Sarahah hargrove lisa cox re hemp cell or hemp salt hemp salt uh dana no dane arias or arias amber daryl daryl i think it's daryl sam metz jimmy no jim shaughnessy uh or Shaughnessy. I think it's Shaughnessy. Shaughnessy. James Redden.

Redden. Jessica McPhee. Mary Carmody Trotman. Heather Bishop. Kendra. Kendra Smith. And she donated both ways. Thank you, Kendra.

Thank you. Mark with no last name with a C. That specifies it a little more. Mia Lombardo. Jessica Wilkowski. Amy Mathis. Kimmy Novak Laura Mains

Caitlin Joyner Danziger Thomas with no last name Hilda What? What did I do? What have you done Jimmy? What have you done? I think that's right

I don't think so Holly Webb Andrew Restubin Laura Mead, Timothy Foote, Dylan Leahy, Julia L., Candy Fagan, Caitlin Morgan, Jody Ash, Heather Dustman, Emily Richardson, Jeffman, no, Jeff Newman, not Jeffman New, Raymond, no, Ryan, Ryan Sim wesley coast cody laversi uh that guy's that guy's fantastic he's from uh i think he's in in the midwest somewhere detroit maybe he drives a jip that's all i know hey linda fitch uh rusty poor boy uh alexandria frazier and and go go yet max alberts lauren demirath mary Hemphill, Abby Siegel, Dale Ashburn,

Jay Laffanier. Nope. TJ Mack, thank you very, very much for everything you did for us this year. We love TJ. Thanks, Jared. We'll see you soon, TJ. Yes, can't wait. Jesse Hartman, Beth Nisonger, Michael Wazowski, Liz Vasquez.

Again, somebody else. Liz, thank you. Thank you so much. We have so many people. Everything. I don't want to miss anybody Liz Vasquez. Again, somebody else. Liz, thank you. Thank you so much. We have so many people. Everything. I don't want to miss anybody. For real. So many.

Peyton Meadows, again. Susanna Pratt. These are regulars, man. You guys are so nice. Thank you. Jenny Jekyll, Ashley with no last name, and an I, not a Y. That specifies it. It's important.

Catherine with a Y. That specifies it with no last name. Kevin Lassen, Heather Loeffler. She's donated a bunch of times, too. Rebecca Young, Ryan Schlossel, Zach Lee. They don't deserve you, God damn people. No, truly. Robin Anderson, and she sent us a gift. Thank you so much, Robin.

We got that in the mail. Thank you, by the way, just before you go on. Thank you guys so much in the shouts for all the gifts we got for the holidays. We got so much. J-Bird Wedbetter sent me a, do you hear that? That's a fucking switchblade. That's a switchblade. That's illegal.

You made all sorts of weird audio things happen with that. Thank you all so much. He sent me a cool t-shirt. He sent me with some stickers too. Thank you guys. The whiskey, the jerseys from Fuller. The things you guys send us are- Jason Fuller, the Jim Cornette.

Unbelievable. Thank you so much, Jason. That is so cool. I'm going to send you a message, but I just wanted to say it on the on the air too really cool thank you man appreciate you uh jeremiah bueller ryan black trey vulcan i said that he's donated a bunch of times too yeah uh kelly kelly peterson robert sukach uh amber amber lob angelina heaver heaver uh michael warwick lauren jerk, and Ashley Veo from the beginning. You guys, all of our Patreon supporters, you guys do so much for us, and we can't thank you enough.

Thank you. Thank you, everybody, so, so, so, so much. It's really just so appreciated, and we just can't believe that you guys go out of your way for us, honestly. We try to give you the best show we can, and when people are like, I want to do something for them in return, it's just weird. You don't expect people to want to reciprocate anything. You just expect people to want to take and run away with it. But not our people. Our people are great.

That's why we said come to shows even if you're going by yourself. This is a great group of people. You're going to have a fun time. You're going to make friends. We enjoy meeting you. Oh, we love it, man. I love going out after the shows and having a drink if i can if we're not leaving at six o'clock in the morning i'm popping out and having a drink with you guys and and uh frequenting some fucking

bar in whatever town and giving a little bit extra commerce somewhere that's nice too and hanging with you guys and listening to your stories i won't do that but if you find the right alley i'll be in it smoking and you can hang out with me if you want. I'll help you find your keys to your car. I'll be there hanging out. I'll be the dude in the hat. I just really like meeting people. It's fucking rad. We love that shit.

We have a great time meeting you guys. Thank you so much for everything, honestly. And what if they wanted to meet you in the internet type of way? How might they do that, Jimmy? You can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N, Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. How might they do that, Jimmy? You can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N, Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. And after the shows, that's where you can message me, and hopefully I'll have somewhere that people are going to drink.

And if I don't, then I just won't write you back. It all depends. But I do my best. You never know how our travel days are as we come in and out. Maybe we'll go have coffee. There you go. Where are they finding you? You can find me at JimmyPIsFunny, or just copy and paste my last name and my whole name from the show description and find me that

way it's a little bit easier than trying to spell it yourself right you're not going to spell it right or you can find him at scarlet horby scarlet at scarlet horby scarlet horby 69 at hotmail.com is your is that's your Jimmy's old email address. His father-in-law was right to give him that fucking movie. Tell you that right now. All right, everybody that said, holy shit.

What a goddamn show. We're having a good time and we're going to keep coming back everybody and until next week we will know until next week everybody. uh no until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

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