Small Town Murder - #154 - A Bloody Puzzle With Missing Pieces in Bartlesville, Oklahoma

Episode Date: January 16, 2020

This week, in Bartlesville, Oklahoma, high school sweethearts get married, and raise a nice family, until some "sexual problems" cause a few waves in the marriage. After trying to work it out, and being on the road to marital bliss, one of them ends up dead. But was it an intruder, caught in an attempted burglary, or something far more sinister? Along the way, we find out The Pioneer Woman owns a good chunk of Oklahoma, that you should find out what you're into before you ask others to turn you on, and that any amount of time is too long to wait to cal 911!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Bartlesville, Oklahoma, a man tries to rebuild his life after the death of his wife by finding someone new and living

happily ever after. The only problem is that someone ends up dead. back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Westman. Indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigal.

I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Westman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us again on another wild, crazy, insane edition of Small Town Murder. We are very, very excited for this week's episode. It's a crazy, it's a twisty, weird one this week. So you're going to enjoy it. Very, very nuts. First of all, I'd like to thank everyone for the reviews this week. Hell, yeah.

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It doesn't matter, but do it and you can counteract some people who have been mad at us lately that have been trying to ruin that for us. So that helps. So if you're a listener of the show and you like us, please do that. Ridiculous fucking... Also, go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all of your small-town murder and crime and sports needs there. We have everything that you could want.

Check out Crime and Sports if you haven't yet. It's a wild, crazy ride. And if you like this show, there's no reason why you wouldn't like that show. I'm telling you, it's the same thing. You'll hear me learn things, too. It's insanity. It's not about sports. It's about hearing someone who doesn't have to do something stupid

repeatedly do stupid things. Yes, they do. Everybody wants to hear that, so check that out. Do that. Also, get tickets to the live shows for 2020. Yes, they do. Everybody wants to hear that, so check that out. Do that. Also, get tickets to the live shows for 2020. So many coming up.

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You've got to get those in pretty quick. A little murmur up there in Brooklyn, right? We're going to have a good time there, Jimmy. We are going to have a good time. I've never been to Brooklyn. I'm excited to see it. It's a thing. It's so different now.

Who knows? We'll see. I don't know exactly what neighborhood this one's in, too. I've got to check it out, and we'll see. I'm sure it's nice, though, because, you know, I don't know. We've always been in Manhattan, and that place is just so busy. It's just hard to get in and out of. It's just so much.

Brooklyn's a little easier for people, I think. I'm sure there's still pizza out there. Oh, there's good pizza in Brooklyn. Brooklyn has great food. Don't worry. The Guinea culture is thick there. Fantastic. And you know me. I'll just emerge myself. Coffee and pizza will be all right. I'll. The Guinea culture is thick there. Fantastic. You know me.

I'll just emerge myself. Coffee and pizza will be all right. I'll immerse myself and emerge from there. It'll be wonderful. So with that said, we do have, oh, one other thing, too. If you want to be a hero to the show, if you want to help the show out a lot, you can be a donor at patreon.com slash crime in sports. And this week, by the way, will be releasing uh another patreon bonus episode and it's a case and we're going to be doing that uh

we're going to be doing that quite a bit here releasing cases on patreon it's for the five dollar level and above or something so get on there that'll come out friday and uh that'll be great for that also you can make a one-time donation over PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at gmail.com. We are so appreciative of everything. And we're going to tell you how appreciative at the end of the show with our list of producers. That said, we have to do the disclaimer quickly. Yes, we do. Definitely need that.

This is a comedy show. It's a comedy podcast. We're comedians. We're not journalists. And we're not doctors. And we're not lawyers. And we're not anything like that. We're comedians. we're we're not journalists and we're not and we're not doctors and we're not lawyers and we're not anything like that we're comedians all the facts are real right to really take the research very very seriously but we do make jokes this is a comedy show we are comedians so that's that's the thing that's going to happen we try to confine our jokes to

you know things that deserve it Something goofy in a small town. If a police force lets a murderer go for 10 years, we might make fun of them. We'll make fun of murderers. Sure. We'll make fun of crazy situations that lead up to murders. But what we will try not to do, and we'll go out of our way not to do it, is we'll try not to make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Because we're assholes. What?

But we're not scumbags. You can take that to the bank. That's how that works so yeah if that sounds first of all if you don't think true crime and comedy should just ever go together if you say i can't understand people making jokes anywhere around in a murder that's fine we get that's totally fine we totally understand that don't listen to the show though don't listen to it and then complain afterwards we're telling you what it is if you don't like meat don't stand outside of a hamburger place being a vegan saying,

I don't like your food. Go to your restaurant. The opposite way. I hate vegetables outside. Then don't listen or don't eat it. What are you doing? Why would you torture yourself and listen to something you're not going to like? You're not getting the tiramisu.

No, you're not. So that said, if you think that true crime and comedy do go together, you want to have a good time. You can hang with us. I think we're going to have a good time. I think it's time to sit back and shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. Great.

Let's go on a trip. Fine. What do you say? Fine. Very encouraging here. What do you say? Let's do this here. This week, we are heading to the center of

the country the the creamy nougaty center of the country going to oklahoma okay where we will be this year as well yeah as a matter of fact we're going all the way to bartlesville oklahoma now uh this is very close we'll talk about to our last oklahoma town like excessively close but it's a totally different kind of a place so that's why it's like it's close but it's so different that we could do it anyway it's not a big deal plus the case is crazy and it doesn't matter right so we're gonna do this here uh it's in northeastern oklahoma this is the opposite side of the panhandle over there this is the square part of the state got it in every way imaginable yeah very square bartlesville not jam. This is the, I want to say the buckle, but it wouldn't even say it enough. This is the, like a rhinestone covered rodeo belt buckle of the Bible Belt.

That's what this place is. Everybody is first and foremost is church and then the rest of everything else that goes on here. So that's the type of place it is. Very square. It's about 50 minutes to tulsa about 200 hours and 25 minutes to oklahoma city yeah we'll be in may 9th as a matter of fact that early yes get your tickets to that right now and about 10 minutes like i said to dewey oklahoma which is episode 100 it was a while ago which this town though is right next to pawhuska

which so there's a good chance that anyone murdered here is buried in the pioneer woman's yard oh is that where she's at she lives she lives there and we looked up how much land she owns she pretty much owns all the land between pa huska and this town anyway are you so pretty much she owns so she owns some square miles jimmy get the fuck out oh it's crazy we look it's crazy. She owns like 1% of Oklahoma. Why does she get to do that? Literally, land, because they're wealthy as shit. Her husband is a big cattle ranching.

There you go. Wealthy landowning family from way back, and she's married into that, and she makes a shitload of money herself. Literally, it's more than 1% of Oklahoma she owns. It's insane, and it's all this area. Global warming is her fault. I'm doing it all here. The hands dangling. I'm making no chicken tonight.

Okay. We got all that beef out there doing all that farting. All that farting. Washington and Osage counties. This town is in both counties for some reason. A lot of Oklahoma towns overlap into counties. The towns came before the counties and they didn't i could see that they just put the county line right through it rather

than around it which is interesting uh zip codes here there's a bunch of them it's 74003 004 and 005 so there's a bunch area codes 539 and 918 it's 22 square miles and this is a high more like on the higher end of population of what we do. This is big. Yeah, this is like a Rome, Georgia-sized city here. The motto, City of Bartlesville, Connected, Creative, Vibrant. Okay. Or, come see Reed Drummond's property and all the people she owns as well.

She owns humans, I feel like. It's kept under wraps, buted drummond owns humans let's just say it right now those recipes contain human meat i mean it's allegedly people have told me yeah i've been told you've heard it sources have said that reed drummond's recipes are 60 human meat i'm not i can't confirm these. She bottles it and sells it at Walmart. I don't know. So we'll see. So Walmart sells human meat in turn.

Allegedly. We don't know this for a fact. We've heard it. Obviously. It's been said, we'll say, by me right now. But still, it's very alleged. Say their motto again. They're connected?

Connected. Connected, created, vibrant. They're trying to make this like, hey, move here. All the people here are old. It's a very old, rural town. It's like, I don't, creative, vibrant. They're trying to make this like, hey, move here. All the people here are old. It's a very old rural town. It's like, I don't want to be vibrant. I'm good where I'm at, as a matter of fact. Now, this town was started by kind of the same guy who started Dewey.

There's a guy named Jacob Bartles, who is the son-in-law of the Delaware Chief Journey Cake. What? Chief Journey Cake, which sounds like some sort of 80s tribute band. Or a gift you give when somebody's going on their walkabout.

Here you go. Here's your Journey Cake. Here's your Journey Cake. His name is Chief Journey Cake. Chief Charles Journey Cake, which sounds very made up, but it's a real person that had a lot of respect.

I don't believe it. It's in print. I mean, who knows here? But he had a grist mill that modified it to produce flour. He ended up going to Dewey and kind of opening a store there and kind of creating that deal. Now, other settlers moved into the area, which was called Bartles Town at the time. And this was around 1880. The Bartles moved the post office to this town.

It was in Turkey Creek before this. Yeah. Well, you know. We had Turkey Creek in the last one, too, right? Yeah. That's what I mean. This was the same guy. So I'm just going.

We had tons of wine cooler jokes. Yeah. That's why we're not doing it on this one. And do we do crybaby references in Turkey Creek? Yeah. we put i remember those very specifically here hatchet face feels like she should be her face should be the flag of oklahoma absolutely so uh then bartles gave the community uh kind of brought electricity and telephone system and water distribution this guy's like the father of the town here and then uh uh the the uh the city began this city began when a guy opened a general store on the south side of the river in 1884

and then the newspaper began publishing in 1895 and it became kind of a more of a town it was incorporated in what was indian territory at the time in 1897 the town was surveyed and everything in 1898 and uh they also gave they tried to get the railroad to come there they gave land to the to the railroad the railroad got there by 1899 uh and then bartles moved his shit to dewey he's shit's getting crazy here it's getting too big around it's too metropolis you know what is that it's metropolitan i don't know it's yeah it's too metropolitan i believe yeah it's getting too big around it's too metropolis you know what is that it's metropolitan i don't know it's yeah it's too metropolitan i believe yeah it's getting a little too much around here there's a post office and a store i don't know i can't hunt enough i can't go corral my own meat i went outside today and i looked out and i saw another house and i said

it's just getting too much i could see a house it's on the horizon like half a mile away but it's too much for me i saw a guy lick a stamp and i'm like you know what too forward thinking is that reed drummond's family coming no i'm moving not move she's gonna come trying to give me chicken with her t-rex hands and dangling down chicken who wants chicken i can't handle it i gotta get the hell out of here she serves human meat you know and then he left i believe that's what happened. The chicken cutlets are thigh muscle. She knows that. I'll give her that. She knows what cuts go with what. So good for you, Ray.

Allegedly, obviously. This can't be proven. That's what I'm told. We can't. I can't. I'm not going to go to Oklahoma. Somebody said it somewhere. We can't get on her property. It's a compound. She's like Pablo Escobar at his peak. She's just in the middle of farmland. She has so much land. Armed guards around her, I'm sure. i feel like she has snipers on the roof they're like you can see for miles no one's coming she's like still just live up there okay it's a couple

of cowboys yeah they die they roll off she buries them in the yard that's how it works goes and hires another that's it no there's more but More where you came from. She buys another. People here. So Bartlesville was a sundown town originally. I remember those. We've spoke of sundown towns. That's a place where black people were not allowed to live or really be, for that matter, after sundown was the thing. It was kind of what they would say is if you're there after sundown, you'll get killed.

It's the original. It's not nice. When the streetlights are on, killed. It's the original. It's not nice. When the streetlights are on, you better be gone. Yeah, it's not nice. We'll put it that way. Not a nice thing to do. It's not inviting. No, I would say it definitely.

If you're thinking, do they want me there? No, is the answer. Probably. If someone, if they're threatening death on people, this is not okay. But by 1907, they restricted the the ban on black people living there i can't imagine being like all right we're gonna set this up post office down okay post office now who's the mayor we're mayor can we got to set up a town council i'm thinking of like a three-person panel that way we can vote on you know because sometimes things are going to

be there's be, somebody's going to want something. We need a tiebreaker. We need a majority vote. We need a tiebreaker. So we're going to set up probably a three-person city council. Someone's got to represent the school boards as well. Yeah, no, we'll talk about all that.

No black people, though, right? Okay, yeah, no black, okay. That's agreed upon now. We'll get into everything else later, but we're not, no black people can live here. It probably went, did we get run in water? Great, no black people. I'll put the sign up. And now let put the sign up i'll put the sign up and we'll worry about the council and all that i think that's what i mean it was like three but well we'll figure all out but no black we agree on that yeah all right fine ridiculous uh the newspapers jesus christ this is

frightening in 1907 the newspapers noted the town's wow and they were bragging about this the town's first natural death of a black man in town oh jesus yeah died a natural see we didn't even kill him they were like look at that a guy who let time take him a man named robert mcgee died of natural causes there and they thought that was some sort of bragging they were blown away like look at that you know we didn't even kill him now in, in 1957, Bartlesville, this is pretty cool. I hope people are interested in this. Bartlesville was the test site for the first experiment in pay-per-view television. 1957.

What? Yeah. If you look at the history of television and cable, it's fucking fascinating of the experiments they tried to do and how it spread. All of cable experiments started in middle america it's it's a weird thing uh like tested there yeah like if you look at like mtv when it started even mtv wasn't available in new york city for like a year it was only available in rural areas really yeah it wasn't no cable systems didn't carry it in new york city and other places but. But Oklahoma was video killed the radio star. And Oklahoma was ground zero for MTV.

Central Oklahoma. They were saying like they would go. The reason why they knew MTV was working was because they would get they would find out from the record companies that they would get. Record companies were getting calls from video stores or record stores in Tul yeah saying we ran out of buggles albums the video killed the radio star now no one was buying fucking buggles albums unless they were watching mtv they didn't know who the fuck that was it was an obscure british band but is that who that was yeah the name of them the buggles was video wasn't the bugles no all right it wasn't blondie no what was blondie's hit why am i heart of glass yeah titus there's a bunch of

why am i missing this i just know that was the first one that was on the was on the the network yeah because it obviously was symbolic the buggles is their name yes those poor bastards nobody knows that well they came up with it it's their fucking name no one said they had to be the buggles they weren't a good point the queen didn't bestow it up are we going with those dumb bastards or poor bastards like dumb i think but that's how much but it was oklahoma was kind of ground zero for some reason of that and then it spreads from there so we're everything else starts the coast and moves in except for cable and like television shit started in the middle and moved down so the 1957 i mean we're talking this is people didn't some some people didn't even have TVs yet.

This wasn't everyone in America had a TV yet. And if they did, they had one. Right. And it was tiny and black and white. And everybody huddled around. Yeah. Or you did it in a fucking storefront and you just stood there in the freezing cold. Well, the first, the people that bought the most they sold televisions to in like the

late 40s and early 50s was bars. That's what they used to sell. That makes sense. That was the main customer for televisions to in the late 40s and early 50s was bars. That's what they used to sell. That makes sense. That was the main customer for televisions before. Everybody went there to watch it together. They'd go to the bar to go to watch a game, to go to watch anything. The game shows that were popular at the time. Tiny-ass TV.

Everyone gathered in a bar, but that was a big attraction for the bars. And then people started buying them at home when the price went down a little bit. And the bar attendance dipped. So that's how it happened then. So the Bartlesville telemovie system debuted in 1957. They played a film called The Pajama Game starring Doris Day. Hell yeah. And it aired to 300 homes.

Really? They had an article in variety magazine in 1957 called first run films now at home so this was like the original you know in the theater in your home pay-per-view system or streaming now or whatever it was this was the original deal it's uh because this was like uh this is an oil community bartlesville it's all about the oil here this is where uh phillips yeah phillips this is where he's from okay and this is this everything revolves around roughnecks conoco and phillips and all that shit in this area oh phillips the fucking gas station that's

that's wow mr phillips is from bartlesville okay and everything in town is named after him and really yeah this is this is oil country here and uh this is like kind of a there's wealthier people here so that's why this was kind of the test site for this pay television because people here could afford it got it and that's how it worked uh the uh the president of video independent theaters owned a bunch of bartlesville movie theaters he tried to use this as like people were staying home now because of television not going to the movies as much so he was like well fuck how do i make money i can get them to buy shit from their house yeah and so it was the original how do i get it's brilliant somebody had it in 1957 and uh it's a couple of

you know they brought these uh the technology for it they send a signal and it was the first like cable system it was pretty fucking neat but uh yeah 1957 this was your subscribers you paid 9.50 a month for this that's a lot in 1957 that's a fuckload of money that's so much that's so much but i mean what was it probably 50 cents to go to the movies back then i'll bet it was cheaper cheaper but if you had a big family and you were gonna and you went to the movies often this was uh actually but i mean 9.50 you had to be you had to have some money to pay 950 a month for anything you could buy a brand new car for like 1300 yeah that's that's what i'm saying 26 feature films this would get you 13 first run features so right away you know theater and 13 reruns on a second channel okay so they do it like that there's value in it yeah and then you

could get for 495 you could get uh first runs and reruns to a single feature on one channel with like a kind of less less programming that they had there oh boy if they would be pissed to know that oh this is working same price and we get so much everything and it's worth 9.50 is worth nothing right it's not anything uh but at right before it ended they had 800 subscribers there so i mean it's you know it was working it before it ended, they had 800 subscribers there. So, I mean, it's, you know, fucking... It was working. It was working, but then they had to go off because, yeah, the TV was just doing more for them.

Sure. And I found a review here of Bartlesville, Oklahoma. And it's, well, here it is. Bartlesville, Oklahoma used to be a nice town for retirees, employees of ConocoPhillips, and your run-of-the-mill family. However, in recent years, the decline of the town has been anything but gradual. Oh my. Driving around, you will still find an abundance

and current construction of churches and hotels. Well, that's good. At least there's churches and hotels. Bartlesville is separated into what the locals call Eastside and Westside and are separated by some type of bridge at every crossing. The high school is number 277th in national ranking and 25.1 out of 100 for college readiness. In the past couple of years, there's been a rise in crime in the area, considered most

dangerous in Bartlesville is right by the high school. If you wish to stay, if you wish for a place to stay for a night or a couple of days, there's plenty of hotels or motels to choose from he's really obsessed with that if you wish to move here the sudden availability of rentals and houses for sales uh signs should keep you uh occupied and give you plenty of options so it's not doing great it's available it's available and we'll talk about it's very inexpensive uh to live here yeah the uh the former the owner of the tennessee titans bud adams is from here. Apparently grew up here.

Reed Drummond grew up here. Really? That's why, yeah. She grew up here. Why didn't she just buy the town? There's so much shit available, it sounds like. I don't know.

Well, she didn't have the money at the time. I think she went to USC, and I'm not going to go to Reed Drummond anymore. Her husband went to ASU, though. Did he really? He did.

Jesus. And then he's a farmer anyway. Why would you do that? It seems like your family was probably involved, right? Amika Okafer, the basketball player, is from here. Oh. So there's that. It's otherwise not a lot here from this place.

Now, population of this town, like I said, this is on our higher end, 36,398. That's a lot. It's about as high as we do here. Up 7% since 1990. So it's working, I guess you could say. More females than males. That's because there's twice as many 85-year-old and over than usual. So that's always going to be more females at that point, because you always outlive us.

Median age is about 38 and a half, but there's, like I said, way more old people. More married people than usual, because it's just more of that kind of place. It's a settle down kind of place. Not a real party town. It's a you work it out place. It's you work it out, you take it to church, and you figure it the fuck out. You pray about it. But there's also a higher divorce rate than normal because you got married when you're 19 because you wanted to have sex.

You couldn't because you were religious. Gotta make it OK with that. You know, that's what ends up happening here. Yeah. I want to get it out of her butt. Yeah. It's please. I want to put it somewhere else.

Please help me. Race of this town is about 74 percent white. So pretty white. Three point three percent black. Two and a half percent Asian. Seven point seven percent Native American. Yeah. In the country, it 7.7 percent native american yeah in the country it's 0.7 percent yeah but oklahoma that's yeah it's a lot of good for them yeah uh 6.4 percent hispanic is it a lot of uh reservations in oklahoma yeah there's a lot of that yeah there's a lot of reservation i didn't know yeah it's like arizona people don't realize that arizona is like

so much 80 reservation there's so much it's pretty much the whole state right sometimes in northern arizona you will get in trouble trespassing they'll be like you're not supposed to be back here well it's a how am i supposed to it's the woods i didn't see a sign it's the woods right i don't know i will certainly leave and i'm not sure who owns the woods right if you say you do great i'll leave but i didn't know i don't know the laws in the in the woods the woods yeah i don't know i don't know I didn't know. Worse than that, I don't know the laws in the woods. The woods, yeah. I don't know wood laws. I'm not positive. I didn't read. I don't know.

I barely know them outside of the woods. Yes. That's what I'm saying. So a lot of Baptists here. Yeah. It's very Baptist. 21% Baptist. Baptists are apparently the Catholics of the dead central as well, I guess.

0.0% Jewish, 0.0 percent muslim it's not happening there uh 22.7 percent in the last election voted democrat 71 percent republicans it's really conservative oklahoma just super conservative uh unemployment rate here is about three and a half percent uh the the this town this town is as a haves and have nots kind of a town. Yeah, the median household income is about $50,826. So that's only about $7,000 less than the average.

But there's more poor people and more wealthy people. It's one of those type of things. It's a little more of both. There's people who make $20 and people who make $104,000. Exactly. And you look at the houses too. It like okay so it's either you know 30 grand or two million those are my options for houses it's a trailer or a fucking mansion there's a lot of stuff like

that here and manufacturing jobs are high here the oil jobs and you know quarrying extractions usually like 0.5 percent of the jobs. Here it's 5%. That's pretty heavy. So it's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot more than usual. That's where the money is here. Cost of living is 80 overall. 100 is regular.

Here it's 80. Housing, though, is 43. Very low. The median home cost here, 99,400 bucks, which is, that's insane. It's less than $100,000. There's a lot of houses available in that range, too, in the, like, you know, $60,000 to $150,000 range.

There's, you know, about half the houses are in that range. That's intense. There's a lot. And if we've convinced you that you need to be here, you have to be here, we have have for you maybe they'll bring back that subscription station for you we have for you the bartlesville oklahoma real estate report your average two-bedroom rental here is about 760 a, which seems high based on the housing prices. Why would you? Well, I mean, listen to this. Four-bedroom, two-bath, 1,923 square feet. That's a good-sized house.

Four bedrooms. You can stretch out. It needs some work. It's not up-to-date or anything, but it's also $69,000. Wow. So, I mean, that's very, very affordable. And also a four-bedroom, three-bath, 2,220-square-foot house. Again, very big, comfortable house.

$108,000. What? That's what I mean. That's the middle guy. That's the middle guy. And then I found, if you want to stretch out, let's say you got re-drumming money here. You want to stretch out a little bit. I found a four-bedroom, five-bath, 6,119-square-foot.

It's this brick. It's fucking beautiful. Seven hundred twenty five thousand bucks. There you go. Which I mean, that house somewhere else would be three million dollars. So even that's an expense. That might be my goal from now on in life is to own a house one day that has more bathrooms than bedrooms.

I want that. That's the trend. I want a bathroom in every bedroom. That's what it is. And then a couple bathrooms outside for everybody else. And then you get one for every bed.'s the dream that sounds amazing everyone's shitting in their own toilet should be the dream that we're having beautiful you know what everybody has their own exhaust fan that's it you know what i feel like that for the whole world that should

be our goal we're shooting too wide with things we're like hey we have poverty and hunger and we got all these things and they're all terrible. We need to figure out all of them. I figure a lot of this would start with if everyone had their own toilet bowl, you could conquer a lot, at least disease. That'll slow disease down dramatically. That'll slow disease down, I feel like. It won't feed anybody or anything like that. It'll also up the jobs in the waste management arena.

That's true. That's true. We're going to need a lot of plumbers. Plumbers, too. Skilled workers. This is going to need a lot of plumbers. Plumbers, too. Skilled workers. Yeah. This is going to be good. Pipe layers.

Petra Gala-Wisman 2020. We figured it out, guys. A bowl for every hole. Yeah. That's our... That is our motto. A bowl for every B-hole. A bowl for every B-hole, everybody.

A T-bowl for every B-hole. That... Un-fucking-real. T-bowl for every B-hole for every b-hole everybody a t-bowl for every b-hole that i'm fucking real t-bowl for every b-hole for every b-hole that is our motto we will run on that and i feel like we could win we will crush because everyone's like i like my own bathroom everyone's sitting there going well shit i don't want to share it with this one i'm done shitting with your filthy ass my wife shits up a storm in there jesus christ leaves the impact marks on the bowl like it dropped out of a plane or some shit i'm like jesus christ woman what the hell's wrong with you i know we eat terribly but good god inside of that bowl looks like a golf ball oh my goodness there's so many pits it's a lot of it's just so much my kids like to to wait until they like really got to go.

So like two, three times a week, they're throwing mortar shells in that fucking thing. And they're flushing that giant thing out. Shopping bombs. We're too busy. Two, three days worth of that. My God. Knock it off. Knock it off.

Get in there every day. Or get your own. That's right. Jesus Christ. That's what I want. That's right. Jesus Christ. That's what I want. That's what we're going to do. Make this country wonderful. Things to do in this town.

Sunfest. Yeah. Known as Oklahoma's biggest outdoor picnic. Oh. Yay. So there has nothing to do with the sun? It's just we're going to hang out outside? We're going to be, it's the end of May, so we're going to just miss it by a couple weeks.

It's in the end of May. It's the end of May, so we're going to just miss it by a couple weeks. It's in the end of May. Trademark combination of, quote, a relaxed family picnic atmosphere, quality and cost-free entertainment. It's always the best. Yeah. A diverse range of arts and crafts from white people to white people. Oh, no, there's some dream catchers also.

Yeah. Creative activities for children. A couple of dream catchers. Animal skin drums. A shitload of candles that white ladies made that's what you got terrific food and abundant variety yeah all deep fried to perfection i'm sure at an eye-popping car show eye-popping how eye-popping can a car show be i added that i think it's probably accurate. More than two dozen food vendors there, so it's going to be ethnic specialties. Where do I go for ethnic specialties?

Rural Oklahoma. About an hour outside Tulsa is where I go for ethnic specialties. You know, if you like ethnic specialties, what we have right here is it's a Native American taco, and then this truck also has a Native American taco. And then we powdered it in sugar and deep fried it. So enjoy. Enjoy.

Enjoy. It's also wrapped in a Twinkie. Did I mention that? But I'll tell you what. Those Indian fry bread with meat and vegetables and stuff. It's a giant taco. Give it to me. I'll eat it every day.

Every day. It's a giant taco. Give it to me. I'll eat it every day. Every day. It's so good. Now, on their website, on the town's website here, there's a thing on the side of what's nearby. Yeah. And Jesus Christ, when you're in Bartlesville, take a quick 30-minute drive west on Highway 60 to Pawhuska to visit the Pioneer Woman Mercantile, as well as other great shops and restaurants.

She's got her own store. Oh, she's got a store, a hotel. Oh she is a fucking gonna run that she's like boss hog of that town yeah well like she's just gonna be running it she's gonna be chasing down the duke but get me them duke boys she's gonna be the president of oklahoma that was a going through my property yeah they are she is she's gonna be the the governor someday billy ray cyrus everyone eats chicken and and garth brooks are gonna answer her yeah i feel garth brooks will be her lieutenant She's going to be the governor someday. Billy Ray Cyrus. Everyone eats chicken. And Garth Brooks are going to answer her. Yeah, Garth Brooks will be her lieutenant governor.

Crime rate in this town, property crime, it's about 10% over. It's in the average, though. It's in the average range. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault, the The Mount Rushmore of crime is about 20% under the national average. Fantastic. Yeah, it's a nice, it's a safe-ish town. It's friendly. Family town. Yeah, it's that sort of thing.

Live by that Bible, James. That's what I'm saying. So speaking of that, let's talk about- In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really

happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal.

Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early

and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Stephen and Sandra. Stephen Allen. So his name is Steve Allen, the old time comedian, which is interesting. And he meets a girl named Sandra Jo Snavely. Yeah. Okay. He meets her. They meet in high school. This is how they meet in Missouri.

It's a very Midwestern kind of a Bible Belt type of thing here. Stephen played tennis a lot. He belonged to like a city tennis league what year this is in the 70s really yeah so he's got very tiny shorts yeah his balls are hanging out 90 if he goes for anything down you know by the line that he has to stretch for right always that ball's gonna pop out every time unless he wore those doze doze fruit of the loom jockeys with the yellow and blue stripe around the top. Oh, yeah. Keep your ball snug.

At minimum. His balls are snug, but there is tufts of hair. Oh, it's coming right out the side. Oh, boy, oh, boy. This is mid-70s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Looks like sprouts. You know it.

So they go to high school together. And Bruce Snavely, who is Sandra's brother, he was apparently his tennis partners with Stephen. Right. And I guess Stephen did not have a date to the prom in high school. It was a junior prom, and he didn't have a date. And he was like, I don't know who to go with. I don't have a date. I'm not really seeing anybody or not really whatever.

I see all those pubes. My sister won't want to fuck you. It's crazy. Every time I go for a shot, my ball pops out, and then they cancel dates with me. It's just super weird. I don't get it. That longer shorts, what are you talking about, man? You can't do that. It time I go for a shot, my ball pops out, and then they cancel dates with me. It's just super weird. I don't get it. Not longer shorts. What are you talking about, man?

You can't do that. Looks like you got a squirrel tail in there. What is that? Hey, man, that's the way it is. I might just take them off. Looks like two squirrel tails. Streak around that cart. You never know.

It's the 70s, babe. So Bruce said, well, how about my younger sister? You know, what about her? She's cute and, you know, she's available. Right. Go to the prom with her. And so that means, obviously, if you're saying to someone, why don't you go to the prom with my sister? That means you trust them, especially your younger sister.

You're going, he's a nice guy, is what you're saying. He's not going to, like, jump on my sister and pull a Saturday Night Fever on her or something. It's going to be everything's going to jump on my sister and pull a Saturday Night Fever on her or something. Everything's going to be nice and calm here. So he introduces them. And Sandra, they hit it off. They did that. He said, there's always my sister. Go with her.

And they go to the prom together. And they kind of start dating and start seeing each other. Kind of high school style. He's boyfriend, girlfriend. Nothing too serious. Sandra's is a very very sweet person sandra is um everybody says no one no one no one has a bad word to say she's everybody's favorite she's just very nice she's a super nice person her father says uh that when uh he says quote as a girl, she would come up to me all dolled up

to go to church and she would say, am I pretty? And I would say, yes, yes. But what's more important than being pretty? And she would say being nice. That's the type of girl she and she is a very she grows up. She's very pretty, pretty young lady. Like she's not, you know, not an ugly person by any stretch of the imagination. You know, pretty young girl.

But she knows that personality is important and she's really nice. Just a sweet person that everybody seems to like. I wish I had that relationship with my daughter. Yeah, right? Do I look pretty? Yeah, you do. But what's more important?

She'd go, what's with all the fucking questions? I was going to say, your daughter would be like, oh, fuck yourself. What are you asking me this shit for? Is there a test on this asshole? Are you going to Chipotle for me or what? I asked that fucking burrito an hour ago you'd be like sorry she'd be like hurry up jimmy westman she ate chipotle she just grabbed my phone shut up dick i'm uber eating right now oh okay on my phone all right yeah you're paying for this

who do you think's paying for it me up to my card kiddo jesus love you too shut up dick yeah this this is a nice thing this is in in missouri in the 70s you know they're you know they're nice people these people i guess square yeah is what i would call the whole the whole arrangement great way of raising a kid though to get her nice sounds fantastic she is and uh bruce and bruce has a girlfriend that he ends up marrying named Becky. And Bruce and Becky, who, like I said, that's Sandra's brother and his girlfriend, they would always double date with Stephen. You know, they double date with them and Stephen and Sandra. And it was nice.

Yeah, it's the way it worked. After high school, they get married in june of 1980 june 14th 1980 they marry in windsor missouri sandra and steven it's very middle america john cougar mellencamp married just after high school type of yeah type of thing start a family uh sandra is apparently the only girl that steve ever dated he never had another girlfriend okay he was like 16 when they met and he didn't have anybody see i'm you know he might have liked a girl or whatever but he never had like a girlfriend before so she's shorts and hairy thighs yeah it's his first girlfriend she doesn't mind the ball popping yeah she's being nice she's a very

understanding young lady she gets it when you have a tuft there is something real difficult about like having because i've been i've been hairy since I was eighth grade. There is something real difficult about wearing shorts and having the back of your leg hairy, the back of your thigh. The thick leg hair? On the backside. Yeah. Because you see that and you go, oh, there's a lot. Luckily, when we grew up, it wasn't.

The shorts were so long. The shorts were, yeah, you could have. Thank you, Chris Webber. That's what I mean. Jesus Christ. Thank you, Fab Five, Air of Michigan, Jalen Rose. Juwan Howard, you hero. Thank you hero thank you god damn it because otherwise yeah everyone would have had their hairy back thighs the 70s was a time of hairy back thighs it's tough it really was thanks to

the burt reynolds making chest hair sexy but the leg hair was fucking never sexy and that is why everyone needs a t-hole for their b-hole everybody see you got to keep bringing it back to talking points. That's the thing with politics. We're going to get that down. It would be different otherwise. And that's why. And even if it doesn't connect, connect it.

Fucking connect it. Who cares? It's a sound bite. They'll only get that part. They won't get the part before it. That's how politics works. They won't get the hairy back of your thighs. No, they don't care.

They don't care. They don't just hear, oh, yeah, he's saying it, and he does have a point. He has a great point. That's it. So just bring it around to your point. That's how politics works. They don't get the hairy back of your thighs. They don't care. He's saying it and he does have a point. He has a great point. That's it. So just bring it around to your point. That's politics. See? Look at that. So they dated through the rest of high school and then they went to junior college and

they dated through junior college. Like I said, they married. They moved to Bartlesville after they get married. Steve gets a job with phillips petroleum company well that's you know that's around there i get a job with the big oil company and we'll settle down and we'll get a house uh he completed his degree at bartlesville wesleyan oh so he's got okay he's got a degree he's an accountant yeah he's a cpa he's a certified public accountant um you know did very well passed his examination

on the first try after he got his degree um he's been uh over the course of his life the either one of them the only trouble they ever have is steve has a couple of speeding tickets okay i mean and they're not even like you were going 90 in a school zone it's like oh 50 and a 40 look at you you know paid his 80 and moved on so uh uh steve is the highest rated accountant at his in his in his uh unit at phillips there okay so he's very good at his job the shit in accounting he absolutely is he's very good uh he's considered extremely reliable and extremely diligent and you know good at his work here so uh they're both very much into church yeah they're into the first assembly of god church there in bartlesville they go to steve is the treasurer of the church of course he's an accountant brilliant perfectly willing to volunteer

his time fuck else yeah and he's willing to do it he's willing to volunteer his time you know for the church and sandra is also active in the mission program there. So they do that together as well. As well. She's kind of shit. Exactly. That's the thing. If you're going to send someone out to try to sell them on your religion, you send her out.

You send the nice person that go, geez, I'd like to hang out with other people that nice. And then get the donations and have her old man count the money. That's how it works. Sandra here, she was taking classes uh through roger state i think it was like correspondence stuff yeah to uh to try to get her degree as well as they grow into this here sandra went to work eventually here they're gonna have three little boys by the way too three little boys by 1990 they're married they have three little boys uh By 1990, they're married. They have three little boys. At that time, they're about two, three, and five-ish in that ballpark.

Cranking them out. Cranking out the little boys. They're almost due for a fourth. That's what I mean. At that pace. And that's what people will try to do. They get married. They get settled.

They get their jobs. And they have kids. And they're very much of that time. Sandra goes to work at Dillard's. Dillillard's the department store if you don't know it's like basically macy's same type of thing uh dillard's go she goes to work at dillard's dillard's goes to work at sandra sandra goes to work at dillard's she she wanted to buy an electric sweeper i don't know what an electric sweeper is you didn't have wait like a vacuum yeah isn't that a fucking i guess it's a kind of vacuum uh an electric

sweeper it sounds like a stand-up dust buster i don't know that's what it is like a 70s or 80s type of plug it it's like a stand-up vacuum that's uh it's the flat top thing you know what i mean yeah that's what i don't know what the hell it is, but she goes to work to try to save enough money to buy the sweeper. Okay. So that's how that works here. But come 1990, when Mother's Day comes around, Steve bought her the sweeper for Mother's Day.

What a guy. What a present. Here you go. Yeah. You made it. You made it. Yeah. There you go, darling. now sweep the house just the

keep this shithole clean what a different era it was she was like awesome she was excited about it try that now i got you an electrolux sweeper that's what it was they'd be like what any appliance any shit that has to do with keeping this house they're like are you that shit isn't for me you like clean floors fuck then why the fuck did you get it for me then i get that shit for you for father's day wait till father's day comes around and i get you uh i don't know a new blender you fuck we all like clean stores or clean floors what the hell are we doing here this is my gift because i get to because i get the privilege of using it gee thanks i'm gonna

get you a microwave wow make my goddamn leftovers jesus christ you get me a cooking class too thanks unreal jesus christ so uh so yeah she's taking she's taking classes and doing that but she stays working at the department store at dillard's here uh she is known as such a dedicated mother. Everyone in the church, everyone in her work, her neighbors, talks about her kids constantly, lives for her kids. It's all she cares about. Her kids, raising them correctly, and just being there

for them. Being a good mom. She's known as an amazing mom. Now, their marriage, they're coming up on their 10th wedding anniversary. their 10th wedding anniversary their 10th wedding anniversary is going to be uh june 14th 1990 she's going to get herself a nice stove well that's all she's going to get herself a stove i don't know maybe the floors aren't clean enough after the sweeper who knows jimmy she might get a mop we don't know fingers crossed

on that fucking mop i don't even know what to say about this. Your supply of mop and glow. Yeah. Oh, wow. Darling, thank you. Happy 10th. That makes me horny. Has never been said.

Mop and glow makes me horny. Has never been said once. They say for your 10th anniversary, I'm supposed to get you something shiny. So here's some mop and glow. Make my fucking floor shiny. Shine that linoleum. For our 10th anniversary, you get shiny linoleum. Shine that sticky tile.

If you choose to shine it, because I'm not doing it. That was basically what he said. Unbelievable. But they're coming up on their 10th anniversary. They have three kids. They've been working and going to school and doing all this stuff. Their marriage starts to have difficulties, we say like anybody's man 10 years is tough man 10 years yeah you're hitting us especially with three kids yeah that's the thing they're

three is different than two we have we each have two and that that takes a toll i lasted nine years that's what i mean three you're outnumbered for christ's sake yeah especially when they're that close at eight two three and six wow that is when you've got two and you can like separate the problem when they fight you there you there one parent what the fuck are you doing with him right then what you gotta kick him away every time you go hold on on the wall get over here and it's three boys are you out of your fucking mind? Three little boys. Oh, my God. Beating each other, hitting their heads on shit. The constant fear of concussions. Yeah. You need like an open room at the ER waiting for you because it's going to happen a lot.

You've replaced something in your house because of them. Absolutely. You have. Because the six-year-old threw the three-year-old through the drywall or some shit. Yeah, that's what's going to happen when you... The little one tried to push the TV over on the big one. On the big one. Just got his leg and crushed it.

Now, it's a problem. So, Sandy's been trying to spice it up. They've been trying to spice it up. It's a matter of the marriage is getting kind of... They don't have a lot of sex. They don't have a lot of intimacy. So, like, Sandra talks about it with her friends. Sandy will, like, talk.

She knows a couple girls at Dillard she talks about it with her friends sandy like talks she knows a couple girls at dillard she talks about it with and stuff like that of like how do i spice my yeah not like complaining steve wants the marriage to be more sexual and stuff and she's fine either way but she wants to make him happy and she's like well let's try i want my marriage to succeed so she's asking her friends like should i get lingerie should i do this what would be a good like kind of a you know she's trying to splice it up a little bit whatever i like her moves but sandra we're all different so what what yeah what her husband likes your husband might be entirely different your husband plays tennis with the chick next to you thinks your husband gets your husband

horny might not be correct but you should know what gets your husband horny if you've been married for 10 years her husband might like getting spit in the face you know husband horny if you've been married for 10 years her husband might like getting spit in the face you know what i mean if you've been together from husband wife either way if you've been in a relationship with someone for over 10 years a sexual relationship you should know what gets what they're into that's a great i would assume yeah you know but that they're not real open about that sort of thing so it's not her fault they're just not they're they're a little bit you know they're subdued they're subdued they're a middle american church going right couple that sometimes the church teaches you not to talk like that it's just not well it's i don't even know if it's the church or if it's just how they're brought up

they're both a little shy about it and they're both you know it's not a matter of they don't sit down and go all right what are you into what's your fantasy well i want a truck driver to come out that doesn't happen like they don't they don't do shit like that i want you to to not tell me when you're coming home i'm just gonna leave the door unlocked yeah and then you just come in and fucking just grab me with a mask on what jesus what the fuck is happening jesus you're freaking fucking hey i didn't know you were into that god damn i guess i should have talked to you more right so yeah they're they're planning their big move is they're planning a trip for their anniversary 10 year anniversary it's a big one so they're

planning to go away for the 15th 16th and 17th of june of 1990 yeah she's she's been getting lingerie prepared for it this is going to be the big spice up. How far are they going? Not very far. They're going to Tulsa. They're going to Missouri, actually. They're going to Missouri where they're from. They've made reservations at a hotel.

Sandra's into it. He's excited. She's telling her coworkers about it. And like I said, asking advice about lingerie and things like that. And probably picking some up from Dillard's while she's there. And, you know, they were going to they're trying to work out how many nights they want, but they figure it's going to be three nights and it's going to be good. And they're looking forward to it. They made hotel reservations. The two oldest children went to went to his went to her parents in Missouri, dropped them off on the way.

We're going to drop them off on the way. And the youngest, uh, uh, they were going to take him and drop him off with other people and then go celebrate their anniversary. And that's how it was going to be without children. Yeah.

That's a big deal. It's difficult, especially like if your parents don't live in the city you live and you don't really have any built in babysitters for a young couple with three kids that both work and go to school and shit like that, it's very hard for them to get three days with no children where they can concentrate. Logistically, it's tough to coordinate getting them all to different sitters. It's hard.

It's even more impossible. It is impossible. Forget getting two to one person. Getting three is... And then what if one of them is sick? Right. Whole trip's off. You're supposed to be able to leave a sick kid with somebody.

That's the thing. Pull out of her and get back in the car there's so many factors there it's it's ridiculous how many factors there are to to contend with here uh so they're gonna do all of that uh he uh yeah he he man he he they're they're just trying you know what i mean The sexual relationship is not good. Steve talks to his friends too about it. And he's like, I just, you know, everyone he talks to, he's like, you know, I'm just, again, I love my wife. You know, he says, everybody says, I love my wife. And I, you know, she says she loves him, but it's like, I just want, I want more of a sexual

relationship. I want to, you know, he's like 30 and he's starting to maybe. Yeah, I get it. I'm starting to know what I dig and I want to get into it. That's the other point, too. That's the thing. Getting into a relationship in high school, you don't even know how you like to come yet. That's the thing.

You have no fucking idea what sex turns you on. They didn't really explore. And porn isn't near as prevalent. That's the other thing. They couldn't figure out what they're into. I don't know if these two were really exploring their own bodies back in the day or whatever. If they were figuring themselves out or if that was against the Lord. I'm not sure.

Don't even know if these three kids were planned. They could have just been, it accidentally went off a little early. I figured stork. That was my, they went down to the river and they came floating by in a little basket. And that was how it worked. They went, oh, look at that. Three little boys. worked they went oh look at that three little boys i would be fuck the three little boys let the rest float by i think that's what they did i would be frustrated as hell if i got three kids and i didn't even i didn't even come right yet you know what i mean

yeah if you didn't even get a good one yet yeah then they're both they and that's the thing they both want to fix it it's not like she's like well fuck you i don't care go whatever she's like what can i do you know what i mean she's trying to be a good partner he's trying to be a good partner they're both trying right people have tough time in marriages so he writes her a letter okay steven writes sandra a letter oh yeah on april 30th he can't say it well yeah this is a this is him saying what he wants here and it I feel like... So hard to say out loud. I don't think that he could sit down with his own wife, who he's known since he was 15, in a fucking living room and just talk.

Right. So he had to write her a letter. And he's afraid that whatever he's about to say... He doesn't want to see that look on her face. Right. He doesn't want to say something that's so far out of bounds that now she judges him for the rest of his life. He's like, oh, I don't want her going to church telling everyone I'm a pervert.

Well, the worst part, you can't write it either because if you say it out right. You can deny that. If you say it out loud, then you have the. It's like us denying we said something. It's recorded. Plausible deniability of being like, no, no, I said this. Yeah, exactly. I didn't say, come on your face.

I said, I want to squeeze your tits. Yeah, there's a big difference. I said, I want to come. You have a beautiful face. I said I want to squeeze your tits. Yeah, there's a big difference. I said I want to come. You have a beautiful face. Very different. They don't go together. I want to come and look into your face. That's what I said.

While looking on and at your face. So he says here, quote, Sandra, I am really feeling down today. And I'm really feeling down today. I need to get to, to quote get this off my chest this is really hard for me because i love you so much but i feel it's in our best interest to say first of all i love you very much how many times are you gonna say twice in the first three lines he's so like listen i don't want but that's the thing it's so hard to say this out loud he's trying not to make her feel bad which is look i look, I love you. I'm not saying, look, you're a piece of shit and you don't fuck me right.

Terrible wife. We're doing this together is, I think, what he's trying to say. First of all, I love you very much. It's a sentence right there. That is honest and from my heart. I also know that inside that you love me. I don't doubt that. However, you said some things this past weekend that really

hurt me and continues to bother me friday night while i was working so hard to make love to you you said i was quote over sexed and that i was not compatible with you so i guess while he was trying to fuck her yeah on a friday night she called him oversexed. Yeah, he's like, come on, baby, I want you. She's like, ew. Yeah, that's tough. If you're married and your partner doesn't want to have sex with you, it's really difficult because you have no other options. It's not like you can be like,

alright, fine. Okay, I'll go sit over here now. Tug? That's the option. That's it. We share the same bed, too. So if you don't want to fuck me, I got to fuck me, me. You're going to have to watch this. This is terrible.

It's very uncomfortable. This is not a good situation. And then it gets... It's a snowball, and there's... People are mad, and they go back and forth, and, well,

it's not a snowball. There's no snowballs, and that's the problem here. These people could use some kink in their lives. No, but it is, though. And then that you know you feel you're upset with them and then they feel like that's all you want from them there's this awful cycle that happens when people you know they're not doing shit together so i see he's over sexed here you don't want to hear that

from your wife you're like i feel like i want your sex to as as your sex. I just want to be sexed at all. However much sex drive you have is however much sex drive you have. So to have someone go, you're over sex is like, well, what am I supposed to do with that? I'm over sex. We haven't even sexed once. So I guess I guess live with that for the next 50 years. Enjoy. And we're not compatible.

Whether you intended to or not, those real words really hit me that on friday that on friday night plus the two separate pieces of news i received saturday and it all adds up and adds up to a seemingly overwhelming weekend i don't believe that either one of us is oversexed he keeps putting it in quotes yeah it's like it's only okay to do i'm not saying this i'm quoting you right i wouldn't say those words we have we have whoa we have made love only six to seven times in the first 17 weeks of 1990 oh this guy's got this poor fucking calendar where so that's yeah that's every three two to three weeks ish that's not i will give him give him credit he has done his research he's well he's got a week we're into yeah he started in january he's like i gotta keep a log of everything because

i'm gonna need to i'm gonna have to throw this in her face in about four months so i better have accurate numbers i don't want to say we only have sex every couple weeks and she's like no it's more than that i need numbers six to seven times six times. Six to seven. Six or seven. Which one? That tells me that he thinks she finished also six times and he only finished. He finished seven times. He's like, handjob count? At one night, you're like, I'm just jerking.

You're like, I was like, all right. I guess that's seven. Six to seven? Yeah. For 17 weeks of 1990. That's not even once every two weeks. If we weren't compatible, don't you think we would have discovered it during the four years we dated i think we have gotten into a rut and aren't looking

too hard to get out of it god intended for a man and wife to express their love for each other in ways other than words yeah he has brought god into this you know you're desperate for pussy when you are bringing, you're invoking God at this point. All of my other arguments, I don't have them. They're being exhausted. I have nothing else to say. God wants you to give it up, dear. That's what it is. God says, spread thy legs and let thy husband plow.

Right? Isn't that in one of the Psalms? Yeah. I believe. I don't fucking know. It's right next to T-Ball for every b-hole, I feel like. I don't know why. I understand that in the Bible there is something about

you must fuck the man or you must fuck the woman. That's because they want more people to be more people in their religion. So that's how it works. You got to fucking be fruitful and fucking make more of us. The point that I am looking at, though, is I don't care what any book says. 19 weeks and six, maybe seven times. 17. It's not enough fucking.

Not anywhere near it. It's not enough sex. We'll put it that way. That should be at least, there's 16 more weeks to fill. That's a lot of sex. Not near enough not not enough sex at all but you know this is why getting but also with three little kids too i get it you don't time is not yeah it's of the s on a wednesday night that shit ain't happening

there she gets home from dillard's at 9 30 at night he worked all day he's had the three kids all evening he's tired the kids trying to get them to bed and baths and all that shit and that's he gets to bed he has jelly in his hair on a yeah exactly and it's not you know it's not his or hers it's strawberry yeah it's schmuckers right so peanut butter down his face jelly in his hair and he quote unquote put the kids to bed yeah i'm like a friday night that is like oh they're in bed we don't have to wake up in the morning this is go time 11 and i'll wait i'll wait that pussy out he's trying he's trying that happened so god intended for a man and wife this is why you don't get married so early yeah because you don't know you gotta figure out what you need and what you want you are right never mind what anyone else is or what she is you don't even know what or he even if you know what you want at the time you don't know who you are so the fuck you

don't know what you're gonna want in 10 know what you're going to want in 10 years. Exactly. You're such a different person at 30 from 20. It's not even funny. I'm a different person from 38 to 37. That's what I mean. Holy shit. There's a lot of growth to be had, so do it first.

So he says, quote, verbal expression is something that I have always tried to do and at times have missed receiving. So he's saying her words. She doesn't have enough words here. is something that I have always tried to do and at times have missed receiving. So he's saying her words. She doesn't have enough words here. But words alone doesn't cut it. Love is to be expressed to each other. Obviously, sex plays a big part of that, but it is not the only thing. A hug as you walk by,

a kiss when you're not trying to pull away from me, holding hands or a playful touch, a surprise note or card, or something that lets the other one know that they have been thought of or are all important and expressive of the deep down feelings we have for each other. Yeah. Okay. Blame me while I brush my teeth. This is all shit that if you went to marriage counseling, they would tell you to do.

Right. It's all exactly what they'd say. Hey, try to fucking this. Leave her a little note. Spontaneous shit. Yeah yeah let her wake up in the morning to a little note yeah it says oh wow this feels good to you and stuff like that or anything like you said grab her over here grab her ass in the kitchen hell yeah look at you give bring her in give her pass her in the hallway grab his ass oh yeah do it up what are we fucking doing here you're married to each other this is what you got fucking do it some ball are we fucking doing here you're married to each other this

is what you got fucking do it some ball tapping plow those fields let's go t-hole for your b-hole why are you married if you don't want to fuck that's what i mean only fuck three times so uh yeah it's it makes sense what he's saying that that's all he's even i feel approaching it in a good way he's trying that's not he didn's even i feel approaching it in a good way he's trying that's not he didn't be like listen you don't fucking want me this is bullshit and you know give that fucking ass up or i'm gonna go fuck the chick at the bar yeah that's not what he's saying didn't make any threats he just said i would i love you and i would like us to express ourselves she's just said better so this is all fine and she was open to it too she got this

letter from him we'll finish the letter we got she got that from him and she said wow okay like i understand and then like i said they plan to go away she started my lingerie they were trying to they're trying to figure it out here so these are decent people is what i'm getting at he says quote you uh express the deep down feelings we have for for each other you don't know how devastating it is to a man to not be able to sexually please his woman and to feel like he has to beg for what he what should be his to receive i don't like the way that's that doesn't know his to receive sounds not okay no but i see what he's getting at the first part i can understand that and then this is fine but yeah he doesn't feel like a man he doesn't know yeah he feels very emasculated heculated. He feels like he has to beg for sex, and then when he gets it, she doesn't even care.

It's only for him, not for her, and that feels shitty. She's just being like, fine, get it over with, which is not exactly. That's the worst word. No one wants that. Oh, gee, great. Thanks. Wow. Terrific.

Honesty. This is fun. I'll tell you honesty. This is a lot of fun. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, fucking divorce you in a year who cares that was hard the word the most emasculating words you can hear is get it over with get nobody wants that no no and for a woman too if there was get it over

with you'd be like right what why don't you you want me that bad do you thanks a lot oh boy no one wants to hear that that at all i mean on a practical sense i guess it would be like if you know hey can you grab that for me type of thing or you know what they're like yeah just stick it in i don't care. I'm playing video games. So whatever. Saying that somewhere where we might get caught in like a hot way. That's completely different.

Now we're talking, all right, get it over with before the guard turns back around. That's a different story. That's a totally different deal. You know, before the waiter comes back, that's different. Get number six over with before we get caught. This is in their house right this is just this is terrible uh so he says i should be able to receive quote you are my woman this is next sentence oh boy i don't know why it's one of the words and i haven't

yet been able to truly please you i don't know what to do about it sex was given to be an avenue of expressing the love between spouses not just for procreation like yeah we've had these kids but there's more fucking to be done i heard of dolphins come on no greater responsibility is on the one party over another to see that that happens we're in this together that says to me that's okay i think you i think the bad early i think the early bad experiences have made you tend to be inhibited and my being understanding of those experiences has led uh led you to be satisfied with less okay that tells me early experiences that's before him so that means trauma somebody diddled her somebody did something to her when she was younger when she didn't ask for it pre-15 right when she didn't ask either a person i don't know if it's a an older we don't know that we can't speculate

it was somebody that she had a bad experience in the sexual realm as a child apparently because under 15 as a child absolutely and so yeah he's saying that i've been understanding of that and that has led us to this rut of where hey i get it that you're not you know take it easy and she's used to that and it's never come around to hey let's work it out together right that's what he's trying early 80s uh with a lot of church in their lives they weren't really encouraged to go work out problems no no that wasn't a thing to like to seek like a therapist right that's my point yeah the pastor would be like well yeah do you want to have more children or you know i mean you don't want sexual advice

from a church guy right that's sexual advice from a church guy is uh forgive him and let's move forward forget him what you should if you don't like it think about other things while it's happening right and well why would you think about something like that? Why would you do that to yourself? But she just doesn't want me. I don't want to get on top of her. So what? Just hump away and be done with it.

I mean, that's, no, that's not what you want to hear. Right. So he says, led you to be satisfied with less. I want more for us. We don't have to be, quote, X-rated stars to have a fulfilling relationship. I'd never qualify anyway i guess he's saying i kind of would like it that's just no i think anyway it's that's in parentheses with double exclamation points he's making a self-deprecating dick joke yeah i got a tiny

but he's also saying right there although i dig it yeah he goes i'd never qualify anyway. LOL. There's no LOL yet. That's the problem in 1990. Or like an emoji. A fucking crazy laughing emoji. But we do need to be more active, open-minded, and adventuresome, and less restricted by some preconceived ideas. Okay, he's making his case. It is supposed to be enjoyable and pleasurable and quote, special. He's going too far. He's trying here. He's selling it hard.

He's really selling it. I would like to see more words. Oh, he's got more. I would like to see each of us be more responsible for initiating things like I'd like you to want to you know, act like you want to fuck me once in a while to be responsible for seeing that the others needs are met and for being understanding.

When you make the comment that I sure am hot or sweaty, it's because I'm working to get things to happen. If it was if it was less work for each of us to make things happen, then each of us would probably enjoy it more. Yeah, that's true. I mean, if it's labored, you're so sweaty. Yeah. Yeah. This is not.'s labored you're so sweaty yeah yeah this is not they are this is so sweaty get it over with you over sex to my yeah that's that's i mean they might have grown apart yeah why are they never grew together in that way or he's not going to he's not making her horny the way she wants to be made i don't know if she knows how she wants to be right and

I don't know if he knows how he wants to be horny I don't know if either one of these people know anything about their sexuality and the way that either of them like it may just conflict too hard that's the other thing that's who knows they didn't know that beforehand so because they weren't gotta gotta know that shit before you get married that's what I'm getting at these kids were conceived to words like you're so sweaty are you done yet are you done yet and yeah so i promise i won't be asking or expecting it three times each week i don't feel like our church duties you're working at dillard's or going to school has led to this uh he doesn't feel he's not blaming her stuff you don't want it two or three times a week he's saying i won't be asking for it yeah he's like i'm not asking for two or three just like

once a week you know make do every couple weeks you know throw one at me and act like you enjoy it is what he's getting at here uh i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that i killed my wife hi my name is zach stewart pontier i'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye.

The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family.

But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I have been feeling like this for some time, and little bits and pieces have come out every once in a while. At least 19 weeks.

At least 19 weeks. 17, whatever it is. Little bits and pieces. I am not mad or angry or anything of the kind, and I hope you won't be angry with me for being honest and open with you. I don't think anyone has any reason to be angry here. James, this is the worst letter ever written.

It's terrible. This is not going to get you what you want. No. I don't think anyone has any reason to be angry here. James, this is the worst letter ever written. It's terrible, but this is not going to get you what you want. No, I love you. And that's why I'm telling you this. We are young, healthy, have a beautiful family and have so much going for us. I care about you and want us to grow together as in any relationship that's worth anything. It would it would take work and effort of both of us. We have let some of the romance slip

away from our relationship we need some excitement something uh to put the spark back in i'm willing to try to find that spark please let's look together that's his letter yeah so it's a bad letter that's a man pleading begging begging holy shit is he begging yeah they have opposite of what they want but she took this and said okay i'd like to try i don't know i don't know how yeah but i'm gonna try because what does she she doesn't know how she doesn't know what she's supposed to do to do this neither of these two know anything to initiate their that's that's the biggest problem with bad people here they just don't know what to do the biggest problem i have with it is that the letter gives complaints and grievances with no solution and no answer no just other than we need this right this to be the end i need pussy yeah that's all he said i need that i want us to feel

like this i don't know how to fix that but he does say we should need to work on it together he doesn't say like you need to do this and you need to do that he's like i'm willing to work and i'm the letter's terribly written and he doesn't plan it out real well said so did that fact that he was like look this this and this even god yeah wants me to get laid do you understand even god is up there going why aren't you fucking steven right why steven shall get his dick wet that's not even god is saying this like that's that's his thing what's the song about because the bible tells me so i don't know whatever that song is that's what he should be singing to her just write it and then throw because the bible tells me don't you know anything it's some fucking sunday school rhyme

oh man so becky um though becky is the at this point sister-in-law that is her brother's wife that they double dated with she says that like sandra never spoke bad about steven or never anything quote sandra was so calm about things that we never knew anything was wrong she was always trying to help everyone else and you never heard her complain so through all this other than like a couple of her friends that she talked about of should i get lingerie how do i spice it up yeah you know that sort of thing she never complained she's never like fucking steve is gross yeah he's totally a pervert right it was never any of that so he tried to put his tongue down oh my god jesus it felt terrible so what do you want to that there's a friend that works at dillard's that like gave her all kinds of advice. She was like, you whore. That's filthy.

Then they never talked again. Yeah. Except she sent her an invite to church. Yeah. Well, she sent her pleasure party invitations. You need Jesus. Yeah. She RSVP'd a dildo party with you need Jesus with the address of the church.

Jesus Christ. So June 11th, 1990 comes around. they're going away in a few days june 14th early the morning of the 15th they're leaving uh 1990 steve arrives for work in the morning like usual 10 to 8 he gets there you know he's supposed to be there at 8 so he's there 10 to 8 old steve reliable guy at noon he went and bought and bought some shower announcements for some friends. I don't know what the shower. I think they were going to have a party of some kind. A baby or a wedding.

I don't know if the anniversary. Shower is a weird way to put it. That's usually a baby shower or a wedding shower. They're not having a baby or they're not getting married. Really? I don't understand. What kind of shower? I don't know what that is.

He waited outside his office. And then he said it was a nice sunny day. He hung out outside. It was a warm day. He left work at about 5 p.m. He's driving his Oldsmobile here. He gets home at about 5.20, and Sandra is all dressed up and ready to go to work. She's got to go to Dillard's.

She works about four hours part-time at Dillard's every night. Not every night, but a few nights a week. And she was supposed to be there at about 5.30 that night. And she had even made Steve dinner. He got home from work. She's on her way out the door with her clothes on, ready to go to Dillard's. But she fixed him a pork fritter and a salad. That's a lot of work.

So, yeah. Nice meal he's got there. So he's got a nice meal to eat uh wow thanks shit that was nice holy cow thank you very much so she's going to work she's going to dillard's uh and at this point here the smallest the kids are playing and uh steve is steve ends up uh getting some french fries to he makes some French fries in the oven there for the kids and him, and they split all that. Sandra goes off to work. Steve and the kids, they kind of eat the food a little bit here.

And then after they finish eating, Steve changes into some old shitty clothes and goes out and mows the front lawn. So he goes out, mows the yard. He didn't mow the backyard, just the front and side yards here he was getting the lawnmower on the garage out of you know just mowing around has the kids in the yard playing while he's mowing and you know whatever uh he said after he finished the lawn he said he gave his son a bath he took a shower he cleaned up his lawn shit all over him it's you know it's june it's warm oh boy yeah you know that is oklahoma it's oklahoma it's sticky yeah humidity with with grass in the air oh yeah grass stays itch oh man uh he got done with the lawn about 7 30 okay uh he got like i said gets gets his kids

cleaned up and he goes to see sandra at the mall uh at dillard's so they could the kids can see their mother stops by and says oh hi mom hi, Mom, for a couple minutes. Kind of what they do sometimes here. And then they leave to go home. And I guess after a minute, he's almost home, but he realizes he's forgotten the keys to the church. He needs the keys to church. Where are they?

He's the treasurer of the church, and he's supposed to go by to pick up deposit slips and receipts that have been kind of at the end of the day. He's supposed to do that and have them. He does it on Mondays from the offerings that have been made Sunday, and that's what he was going to do that night. So he went back and went back to get his keys. At the house? No, back at Dillard's.

I think she has the keys. Okay. So now this is what he's saying is going on. Now, while all this is going on at Dillard's, Sandra receives a telephone call from what she thinks is a stranger. Now, I guess her friend took the call and we'll talk about her impressions of the caller, but then gives the phone to Sandra. And I guess she said she got off the phone and she asked Sandra what happened with the caller. And she and Sandra said that the caller had asked her where her husband was. And she said, gee, I don't know.

Isn't he at home? And at that point, she told him at that point, she said that he was supposed to be home and that he this person said that he had just called there and there was no answer and he's not at home. So Sandra at that point said she didn't know where he was and that he's supposed to be coming here in a few minutes. And then she said, who is this anyway? What's going on with this? Who are you? And the person on the phone said that he had gone to school with Steve and he was looking for Steve.

You've gone to school with him. And she said, well, I also went to school with Steve. They went together all through most of high school. So, you know, baby, I know you. Anybody Steve knows, pretty much I know. These two have no. Oh, yeah, that's my buddy from. They don't have buddy from years ago.

That's that guy that we know. We go way back is not a thing. No, they're kids. So she said, maybe I know you. You know, what is that? What's your name? And Sandra says that he gave her a name, but she couldn't understand him. She could.

Okay. There's going to be words that I'm sorry, but there's no other way to do it because they come up and this is what the words that she used. She said that she couldn't understand it because he sounded retarded is the words that she spoke to her co or co-worker and he's and she said so she hung up uh she didn't recognize him and she hung up okay okay so um the woman said she didn't recognize she hung up and uh now he this woman that she worked with had taken the call so she said that it was a raspy voice but she had no trouble understanding the caller she said that it was a raspy voice, but she had no trouble understanding the caller.

She said that the voice was there, but I had no trouble understanding the caller. And so that was that. And then the employee says that Steve showed up about 15 to 20 minutes later and Sandy approached him in the aisle and they ended up, I guess, Sandy was working the costume jewelry bay. And, you know, so Steve showed up after the phone, after the phone call, 15 minutes later Sandy was working the costume jewelry bay. So Steve showed up after the phone call. After the phone call, 15 minutes later. Who's the Raspberry?

This woman doesn't know because they're down there. The employee just saw Steve and Sandra talking. She saw they showed up and she assumed that she told her about that. Who knows? Also, this woman says that Sandra did not have her glasses on that night sandra wears glasses or contacts depending on her mood probably or how much time she has to get ready or whatever uh so she's saying that uh she didn't have her glasses on that night and uh she said both her and sandy punched out at 9 15 she said quote we walked right out after we

punched out we just immediately turned around and walked back out the doors and walked to our cars that was that she said she went straight home sandy was in front of her sandy turned on to the road that takes her home and she went the other way and that was that so uh a neighbor of theirs of sandra and steve's here uh i said about seven o'clock he went to church uh these people are everyone's like that night everyone is everyone in this neighborhood is going to and from church at all hours of the day and night seven o'clock eight o'clock to church from church picking up missionaries yeah to drop some shit off of the church make some stuff up with the church literally this guy

went back and forth to the church he had like people coming in missionaries coming in for a canoe trip so he had to like plan this church canoe trip this guy not steven the neighbor he says they they went to church and when they went to church they saw steven outside mowing his grass at about seven o'clock like steven says and uh he says he saw him and that was that he said he noticed that uh at about nine o'clock later on this neighbor noticed that steve was getting into his car at about nine o'clock he say all right he says he can't say that for sure that Steve was getting into his car at about nine o'clock. He says he can't say for sure that he was getting into his car, but he noticed by the way he was facing and the way he was, it looked like he was leaving. You know, if someone's standing outside their car, you can't tell if they're coming or going.

But you can kind of tell by their body language what they're doing. Half in, half out. It looked like he was going, not coming. Right. Yeah, it's one of those. You're leaning. You know what i mean so that's the one neighbor saw him out there mowing and doing shit like that when they when they left to go to church and they came back from church at nine and saw uh you know he uh he was getting into the car is what he thought there another neighbor said they were

trimming their hedges while their wife was on the riding mower in the front yard everyone's doing yard work at 7 30 they're going to church and doing yard work this is a crazy neighborhood they uh he said that they this person peered around a hedge and can see steve driving the car headed north on jefferson at nine o'clock so the guy who saw him what he thought was getting into the car then this guy saw him driving away so he was getting into the car and he this guy saw him driving away. So he was getting into the car. And he's saying it was about 9 o'clock. And then another woman here, one of the neighbor's wives, one of the neighbors, not the neighbor's wives, she says that she left church around 9.40, stopped at a gas station, and arrived home around 10.

And she said that she's 99 sure that both of the allen's cars were there sandra's and stevens she says she's not 100 sure sandy's car was there too but she is 99 sure it was both the cars and she's 100 sure that steve's car was there okay okay that's what she said at least one car is for sure home and then probably two is what she's saying here but definitely steve's that's that's she's said. At least one car is for sure home. And probably two is what she's saying here. But definitely Steve's. She's saying if anyone was missing, it was Sandra's. But she thinks Sandra's was there, too.

She did say that she thought that it was a little odd that it was about 10 o'clock and there was no lights on in the house across the street. She said at that time, usually activity going on. They're getting kids in bed. There's lights on. Shit's active at 10 o'clock at night in the house with people in it. So she said it was kind of strange. She thought for all the lights to be out, to be pitch black, like everyone's out cold before 10 o'clock. I'm single, and I live alone, and there's always a light on in my house before 11.

Yeah, somewhere in there. Another neighbor said about 7 o'clock, he noticed Steve let his son out in the driveway and played with him for about 10 to 15 minutes and then came out and got in his car. And he and his son left because he has the youngest son with him right now. The other two kids have already been dropped off with the grandparents in anticipation of the trip. They're going to go on in five days or four days oh that's awesome so yeah they have like the whole week and they're keeping the youngest son with them right until they go out on the trip and then they're dropping him off so that's how that works so he's got the youngest son

he's about two ish right you know a little younger little guy little toddler guy uh probably about 7 15 or 7 30 this was um and then about 8 or 8 30 she he's this neighbor said she saw steve drive back to the house and uh you know that's how that goes he pulled into the driveway she believed he got out and went in the house but she wasn't sure about it then she said he got back in the car and left again so that's then that was around 8 30 which uh could have been nine which was when other people saw him leaving. So he's going back and forth is what we're talking about. It's a lot of movement.

Yeah. So now Sandra told Steve back at Dillard's, because that's where he was going, back and forth to Dillard's. And she also told her co-worker Teresa that that caller said, where's your husband Steve? Isn't he home? And all that sort of thing here. caller said where's your husband steve isn't he home and all that sort of thing here now uh uh sandra says to theresa also that we told how the caller sounded as we said and um i love that time yeah that's the thing and uh apparently the caller asked for sandy allen that and uh the only place she's known by sandy really is at Dillard's where she wore this name

plate Sandy Allen no one else really knew her by Sandy except for Dillard and the caller called Sandy and the caller called her Sandy Allen looking for Sandy Allen so uh they thought maybe it was somebody who went to Dillard's because also there was some weirdness a short time before this her co-worker Teresa received an obscene photograph in her car. Like, slipped through the window. Oh. A crack in the window. Oh, the early dick pic.

Yeah, this was... A Polaroid of it? It was literally a fucking photograph of a man naked from the waist down. Oh, that is awful. So, just, here's my dick. Oh. Slipped in your car window. Oh.

I don't know what... Oh. At least when some... Okay. Now, dick pics aren't my thing. in your car window. I don't know what, at least when some, okay, now, dick pics aren't my thing, but like, if someone sends a dick pic,

I feel like, I don't know, I don't know the psychology behind it, but I feel like they are hoping, in best case scenario, that the recipient of this will say,

ooh, great dick, and I have some of that, awesome. That's the hope, I feel like. Not just like, now you see my dick. Maybe it is, maybe it's like an assaultive thing, like, ha like not just like now you see my dick right maybe it

is maybe it's like an assaultive thing like haha you know made you see my dick i don't know what it is like an indecent exposure yeah i'm not sure what that maybe that is maybe it's like a flashing type thing i'm not sure but this this seems to be because there's not like a phone number on the back of it like hey like what you see all this number for a good time it's just here's my dick there it is it's in your car now now she's got it so uh yeah now it was never established whether the photograph came from dillard's definitely or not or something else somewhere else somebody slipped it in but in her car for a while yeah but you never know there's a couple of weird things that have happened here in the last uh in the last couple months obviously yeah and uh i guess they had a conversation and they talked about what steve was going to do

when they're at dillard steve told sandra that he was going to go to the church after he got the keys right and then he was going to get the youngest boy a drink at sonic yeah you know sonic the burger place here uh it's the two-year-old there and uh and there and it was also hot it was june so he's gonna get there playing outside get one of those slushies yeah so uh sandra asked would you uh um would you get me a cherry limeade and steve said yeah so he said yeah i'll grab your cherry limeade and come back nice guy yeah so steve goes to the church and uh you know he picks up the financial shit there. Didn't see anyone at the church, but then he ends up going to Sonic

and on Frank Phillips Road, of course. My God. Yeah, and he gets the drinks. He got a medium cherry limeade, a kiddie grape slush, and a medium Pepsi for himself. I nailed it. Yeah, he knew what he was getting.

And then headed back over to Frank Phillips Mall. If you're giving a two-year-old a grape slush at nine o'clock, you're asking for a long fucking night. You're asking for trouble, is what you're asking for. That kid is going to rob a fucking bank. He's going to go crazy. He's going to steal the car. I swear to God, you cannot give a two-year-old.

That time of night? That's insane. Good Lord. No sugar after seven. It's either he spins himself out in ten minutes or this is gonna last like a like a like a mushroom trip you're gonna get a call from the sheriff at 3 a.m saying we caught your kid driving through a fucking cornfield somewhere in an oldsmobile i own it with a mailman hanging off his bumper should say dragging off his bumper so yeah it's not a good thing here so he gets all that the receipt says he was at 9

13 that was uh was him at sonic there he uh he ends up uh he ends up bringing the drink back when he goes back he says at sonic he ran into somebody that he knew so he talked for a few minutes yeah didn't get back to the sonic is what he says till about 9 25 when he gets back to the sonic sandra's already gone so because she they checked out at 9 30 they punched out or 9 15 they punched out so she waited a few minutes he didn't come back back to dillard back to dillard with the cherry lime so she said yeah fuck it i'll get the cherry limeade at home and goes home so that's that's how this works so then steve says he got back there saw there's no car there turn around went back home so now everybody's

going home sandra should already be at home and steve should be arriving to sandra being at home so he says he arrived that night with his two-year-old there as he pulled into his driveway he says he noticed a shadowy figure of a person on the edge of his patio he says when the car when the headlights hit this person the he saw this person take off and run from the house oh my god that's what he says so he says he immediately locked his son in the car locked the door of the car and went to the house oh boy okay so he gets out of the car he said he was concerned he was you know didn't know if anything if there was other people or maybe somebody else was there so lock the door of the car keep the sun safe and go inside here he says he got that gets out of the car um uh leaves him leaves the sun in the

driveway sandra's car is there he says he gets out of the car sets the drinks down outside um he uh which we'll talk about it but later on these drinks are still on the hood of the car he goes through the door which is just off the garage into the utility room and uh proceeds through the into the kitchen from there there's a you know garage and then like a kind of a mud room there like a utility room you hang your coats and shit and then you go into the kitchen from there uh he said i'm scared right now there's only two lights on the kitchen light and the dining room light he says the first thing he sees is sandra in a pool of blood on the ground oh that's no good not good at all he says he runs to her he yells sandra sandra sandra he says he

grabs her and uh you know pulls her and tries to like shake her and she you're trying to do whatever he's trying to see wake her up see if she's alive is what he says uh he says he shakes her in attempt to get a response uh uh he says that uh at one point he you know she's moving a little bit and his her left arm is like over his shoulder while he's like picking her up like you know trying to hold like you would hold a child like in your arms like that uh he said he said that uh you know he shook her hard even he said really hard like to the point where he felt like he guilty for shaking her too hard he said because he was trying to wake her up.

Damn you. So then he said, oh, my God, there might be other people here. So he says that he checked in the other room. He checked in the family room. He says he went through some doors and stepped through them and into the living room. He saw a broken TV. He saw a door, a jar, and everything like that. A door, a jar with some broken glass, a broken TV, basically where people would have struggled and where someone might have broke in.

Now, he says, obviously, while he's shaking her and holding her, he's getting his wife's blood all over her because she's in a pool of blood. He says that at this point, he went to the phone and called for help. He called 911. Um, he says that at this point he went to the phone and called for help. Uh, he called nine one one. He said he called nine one one. And, uh, he says, this is exactly what he says. Quote, help, please. I need an ambulance. I need police.

Uh, that's what he says. Uh, he says that, uh, um, he says that, uh, uh, when he came into his house, he saw someone run through his backyard. He said, I've left my boy in my car. My boy's in the car right now. So he trying to tell them establish where the kids are then she asked him for the address and particulars and and he calmly gives here's my address it's my wife and she's on the floor and you know relays the whole situation very calm calmly and accountantly accountant like yeah there uh i don't want to go get my boy out of the car either and let

him see this yeah that's i mean what are you supposed to do bring him in here so um the 911 operator said he was very under control considering the circumstances the 911 operator said that usually a person will be so hysterical in that type of situation that they may not even remember to give you an address or a name or even tell you what's going on they just call out they need an ambulance they need police and they hang up the phone they're just like i get here quick oh my god jesus christ because it's a fucking emergency you're your head's on fire basically you're trying to put it out you don't know why they got that tracer shit going yeah because that's what people do that's half the people they do that they call and they go oh my god i need an emergency and they hang up the fucking phone they don't give them the information

they need call them right back yeah that's what they end up doing. They have to call them back here, which is in a situation like that might not be the easiest thing to do. So the dispatcher dispatches out to everyone in the area that there was a man seen running out the back door and whatever. So the ambulance people arrive. The medical paramedics get there sandra has a pulse great she's got a pulse she has massive head wounds oh bloody as shit no she has a faint pulse so beat with a tv we don't know so we'll get to that though that that's coming up okay so they have a faint pulse and they get her to the hospital uh they bring her to the hospital

obviously they're working on her like crazy okay uh they're working at her on her like crazy uh the neighbor says he gets home from buying uh supplies for the church canoe trip here across the street and he says when he gets home at 10 0 6 or 10 10 uh when he gets home at 10 10 10 0 6 is when he left some other place he gets home at 10 10 he says there's emergency vehicles all over the place. So from 10 o'clock to 10.10, it's turned to fucking bedlam in this neighborhood here. So, yeah. And he came outside, and he says that all Steve was expressing is that he needed to get to the hospital right now. He needed to get to the hospital.

He needed to get to the hospital. That's all he was saying. So we get to the ER, and at at the er the woman at the counter the receptionist says that she saw a man approaching her desk covered in blood and he had his face just covered in blood approaching the desk he said you know he asked he came up to them and he said he the first thing he said to her is uh is she talking? Is my wife not anything else? Exact words were, is my wife talking? Is she alive?

Is she okay? What's the prognosis? Is she talking? And then she was like, I don't know. I'm not the doctor. I'm a receptionist. You're going to have to go back. She said, I can't answer that.

You know, that was it. She's in the back. You should probably go back there and talk to the doctors. They probably know more um she said that he was just covered in blood quote from his face all the way down to his tennis shoes um she said he had a t-shirt on with the name of a church on it of course a pair of shorts and some tennis shoes and uh covered in blood they said anything else on him she said he had she she said he had blood on his face, on his hands, and he was wearing glasses here. That was it. That's all she knew.

Now, Sandra Allen, they work on her hard. She's 30 years old, but at 10.30 p.m., she dies of her injuries at the hospital. And it's massive head injuries. Police announced they have no suspects in this at all. Okay? So it's pretty crazy. So the doctor goes in to tell steve that his wife didn't make it and uh he asked the doctor when the doctor came room came in is she all right is

she making it and the doctor said no i'm sorry and the preacher was there with him and uh everybody said that he uh he it's weird he's he was, but without tears, it was a weird cry. Like he's sobbing. He put the towel over his face, but there's no like tears. Like there's no, it's just like the noises of sobbing. But I mean, maybe he's dehydrated.

Who knows? He was out mowing the lawn. He did have a medium Pepsi, but I don't know if he had a chance to drink it. But yeah, they said that he was pretty, the doctor said that she asked if she was alive. He was pretty straight face.

There was no tears. He did start weeping or sobbing. He says, quote, his pastor, he and his pastor started sobbing, but I never saw tears is what the doctor said. Now, the police officer, there's a police officer there to an officer, Joe Slack. He's there and he's in the emergency room. Also, he said that Steve didn't seem to be too terribly upset. He said his color would be considered normal. He was very calmed down.

You know, he was fine. Not even white from what he fucking saw? That's the thing. He said he was very like, just like, yeah, that happened. You know, like, oh boy, the mower broke. Yeah. Like that sort of thing. So at this point, this officer requests mr allen's clothing in here

so he does he got a set of like uh scrubs to give to him and he exchanged the clothes with him uh there so that he he bags it up it was a t-shirt shorts and a pair of tennis shoes and uh he said he put them in a plastic bag brought them back to the scene to give to the people investigating the whole deal right now uh so he does that now there's an officer klein back at the house they get a call at this point that uh there has been a black man scene running from the area somebody says that okay so now it's an apb on the nearest walking black guy they can fucking find okay so they there's cops all over the place they. They find some black guy walking down the road. Cop gets out, tells him to get down on the ground.

The guy doesn't listen. They end up roughing this fucking guy up at gunpoint and all this shit. Turns out this guy does not speak English. Oh, Jesus. That's why he wasn't listening. The cop actually said he felt bad about it because the guy clearly didn't know what the guy wanted and also the guy hadn't been even been sweating no so he definitely didn't run there yeah he said it was a very warm night and he wasn't even sweaty so he definitely wasn't running and he had no blood

on him also so definitely not the fucking guy so they said they basically really they had to fill out a card to say that they talked to this guy, but they felt terrible about it. Sure. Because they're just random fucking guy they found. That doesn't even speak English. Roughed him up for nothing. Yeah, it was ridiculous here. So the cops also said, you know, check the other houses. There's a house just to the north of here.

And they went over. There's a real tall privacy fence. And so they went over the fence to look there through it. So they're going over. They go over this fence. they're looking around this backyard and then the cops try to climb back over the fence and it's at that point that someone for the house goes hey why don't you just come through the house and they go oh yeah stop fucking up my fence all right cool we should have just tried that first probably we should have knocked but i guess yeah that's there's also a little

kids fucking jerks hey dummies if you want your ball just knock on the door what the fuck are you doing jesus christ man bartlesville's finest here so yeah he uh they ended up doing that and uh man there's also uh another house around there that's unoccupied that nothing was a miss no no hadn't been entered or you know nothing looked like there was anything like that um so uh they said they went out in the uh they went back to the house and they went to give somebody a flashlight to go inside and uh they said that they left the kitchen at this point and went into the garage and saw that there's an attic door into the garage that's closed and the the chief of police who's there

said hey anyone look in the fucking attic to see if you know maybe there's a murderer hiding up there or anything really has anyone checked an obvious fucking hiding place the most obvious the goddamn house if it's not the murderer maybe an accomplice maybe and frank's up there anything fucking find something you idiots jesus the chief's like can you imagine being the chief there hey anybody check upstairs everyone go i don't know do you check what the fuck am i doing here jesus christ it's like great idea chief yeah that there's a reason why you're in charge i guess huh wow uh so at that point the one officer ends up going up there he sits one of those doors where you it's like a flat on the ceiling, and you pull it down, and you pull the ladder down.

One of those doors. It's the attic door. Right. Your typical attic door. The Christmas vacation door. The Christmas vacation attic door. Exactly. So he brought the ladder down.

Whacked the police chief in the face, of course. Of course, yeah. Oh, Jesus. And he yelled at the one guy, and the guy's hat was like on sideways because he's an idiot. His police hat. Oh, sorry, chief. Straighten out your cap. Oh. Oh, sorry, chief. Straighten out your cap. Oh, I'm sorry, chief.

So he said he went up there and they just did a quick popped his head up and did a flashlight around to see if anybody was up there type of thing. And he said it was just, you know, residential shit up there. Boxes and Christmas decorations. Yeah. You know, you know what's up there. Old movie. Old movie things. Old movie reels.

Bunch of women's clothes. Yeah, that's what's up there. Old movie things. Old movie things. Old movie reels. You know how it goes. Bunch of women's clothes. Yeah, that's how it is. So the officer said when he got to the house here, so there's no people up there, just crap. So he said when he got to the house, he observed a large pool of blood in the room that Sandra was in. And the room appeared to be spattered with blood everywhere, too. Oh, I'm sure. It was a fucking scene. It was a bloodbath.

They said this would have been like a dining room in the in a dining room area in the kitchen of a residence he said he then did search of other rooms and uh uh you know just doing a kind of a check it out he said he found uh uh he uh he saw the sink that was full of blood uh he saw a female purse on the counter there was a chair turned upside down uh went into the dining room and uh that's where a lot of the blood had flowed went into the living room and it was in disarray the police officer said books were knocked off the shelf the television was broken the mirror was broken the entrance door to the room from the outside had a pane of glass that

was broken and uh and he went to the master bedroom where he said uh it was neat and clean like nobody had ever been in there whatever happened got way the fuck out of hand yeah absolutely um so he searched through the purse and uh you know just to look and see if anything was in there of any importance and they they they realized it was her purse just want to make sure it was her purse they established it was her purse she had her driver's license bill fold with several credit cards in a purse also so to find a purse nearby not only to find a purse but to find a purse full of money and credit cards is a weird thing for what the fuck are you stealing robbery you broke the tv so you're not stealing that back then people would steal tvs you know what are you stealing exactly what's going on there uh so

they he said the purse appeared to be intact, like nothing was taken out of it. It didn't look rifled or anything. It was, you know, in its rows like people keep shit. So, you know, said the screen of the TV had been smashed and he observed what he thought to be blood all over the screen as well. Oh, yeah. So that's those didn't break easy. No, no. We're talking a big tube TV that's heavy that you could...

That glass is so thick. You could kill somebody with, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, this is when the cops say that they were told the victim's husband arrived home, saw somebody running outside. They went outside to see if they could locate any kind of tracks or a weapon. They couldn't do that. They also found there's only one set of

bloody footprints walking around in here also we'll talk about that only one step set there uh the pane of glass glass was broken out of the door uh like uh it looked like from the outside like a burglar would break glass to get into a door um so the, the house obviously is kind of a, it's a, it's a mess. You know what I mean? Uh, he said that, uh, he couldn't locate any kind of footprints in the ground was still moist. Like there was moisture in the grass. So he said there would have been footprints going out from there and there was no footprints.

There's no rhyme or reason to, to like robbery or anything. It's just, it's very concentrated in one area that it's very concentrated in one area and yeah he said that uh uh it's just it's just a matter of he was looking out outside trying to find where people might have been and he couldn't find anything anything like he looked where there was chairs like maybe somebody would have climbed it there had been a footstep on there there's no footprint on that blood on the fucking porch where a guy that just fucking beat somebody to death would have it all over in the barbecue grill area they found what he called a black tire tool and uh he said it was left behind the chairs on the cement and so he thought hey maybe that's something but then when he picked it up he said the the cop said quote it had roly-poly bugs

underneath it when i removed it and it had not like spider webs but webs of some kind it's been there it's been there it got dropped behind something and no one knew it was there yeah so that's that's about it so this is like a you know a crowbar it's like a typical crowbar you'd see to change a tire here so he said he checked the shrubbery checked everything make sure nobody was hiding they looked all around they could not find anything on the outside of the house now the police officer did say his first impression when he walked in and saw the blood was there was too much blood he said there was too much blood on the walls on the floor all of it just to be like a a simple burglary this is not a police officer

this is the osbi the oklahoma state bureau of investigation oh see they know what they're doing there are people that would have checked the attic first. You know what I mean? There are people that wouldn't be, anybody check the attic? No, oh shit, come on, you don't want to check it with a fucking flashlight or what? No, so he says that usually if you surprise a burglar, he attacks you and a person goes down and then the burglar's going to be running away. Yeah, get out of here as fast as possible. Because they're a burglar. He said the scene looked more with the amount of blood, like there was a lot of violence rather than just striking someone to get out of here as fast as possible because they're burglaring he said the scene looked more with the amount of blood like there was a lot of violence rather than just

striking someone to get out of the house usually the burglar just hits you till you're away from them they don't want to be caught and held and be arrested obviously they want to fucking get out of there so yeah he says uh uh almost like the that the goal was rather to inflict on the victim rather than to burglarize the house. I don't know that I can describe it very in the right terms, but it was just so much seen that it was very. The first indication was is the victim here that they went in for the victim or the attack on the victim was on the victim, not just an accidental bumping into the victim and her surprising them and that there was so much violence that very likely the victim would have known her assailant um they said uh he said things didn't look right the television was broken sitting on a stand but yet you could see the stand on the carpet hadn't been moved so it didn't get knocked over right like it was somebody

went for it that's the weird thing so he said it struck me that the screen of a television set was very thick and would be very difficult to break, yet it hadn't been moved from where it obviously was, which is a good point. He said the wall behind the television was a broken mirror, but yet the television wasn't moved. The mirror had been broken. There was nothing laying on the floor that obviously had been thrown across the room, struck the mirror and bounced back out on the floor. So I couldn't identify anything in there that would have obviously broken those items. And the TV not being moved, I tried to determine whether or not the door ajar was that way before we first arrived. He started to talk about the position of the door. He said, the position of the door bothered me because it was not open far enough to walk out.

It was only open maybe a foot and a half. It would be very, there was carpet there where it wouldn't swing open on its own. It was one of those where the carpet would stick on the door. It was one of those doors that they didn't use, really. It was the other entrance to the living room. They drug across the carpet to get it open. Exactly. So it had fluffy carpet that they didn't use the door off of.

A new carpet or a new door. Exactly. One of the two. So he said it took some kind of pressure to move it one way or another. And it would be very unlikely that someone would run, would, would run out it and close the door and have the door closed behind them. Right. But yet it's not open wide enough.

So the position of the door bothered me. The glass being broken out on the door. And I'm being told that the storm door was locked. Bothered me too, because there was a locked storm door yet broken glass on the door, and I'm being told that the storm door was locked, bothered me, too, because there was a locked storm door, yet broken glass on the inside of the storm door room. So how did that get in? So how would you get past the storm? You can't leave and then lock the storm door behind you.

That doesn't, we have to do that from the inside. It's like a sliding glass with a flip up and down lock. One of those, like in your sliding glass door. Octavia doors. Yeah. He also said the books from the bookshelf bothered him. He said the books from the bookshelf were in a big pile at the end of the bookshelf at the base coming out of the bookshelf and kind of laying in the doorway. And I thought in my mind, if there's a fight and you fall against the bookshelf, how could

the books be right there by the bookcase if there's a person standing there? The books would have to hit the person and leave a void right by the bookcase because they wouldn't fall through a person correct you'd hit it and they go around you and there'd be like a person hole in the middle of where the fucking books were yeah so he's like i don't get it he said uh they'd be right there the books would have hit the person and uh and leave a void right there because the bookcase they wouldn't fall through the person but all the books were piled up against the bookcase all right out on the floor like they'd been pulled off and fell at the feet of someone rather than being knocked off someone pulled them off ah yeah rather than got their back hitting it it was their front pulling two hands pulling them yeah yeah pulling

books off um yeah uh so one of the police officers said that uh they said this is where steven said that he spotted the intruder talking to the den door. And that's the one with, like I said, the carpet. So he said that's where he saw the intruder right outside that door. And that's the one where it didn't make any sense. The television screen had been kicked out. He said the door leading from the den to patio was locked. So now they they talked to Steve.

Obviously, he talks about his day. He says what he did. He got some greeting cards, that whole shit that we talked about earlier. He says he gave the kid a bath. He left. He went to Dillard's. He saw his wife and the child, talked to her a little bit about the strange phone call, went back and forth, went to get a drink and get her a drink, left Dillard's, stopped at

the church, went to Sonic, talked to a guy at Sonic for a little bit, and then drove back to Dillard's, and she wasn't there. So that's how that worked. And then he went home, and then this happened. That's his story. His exact thing is he said he saw the headlights flashed across the backyard patio portion of his residence. He saw a figure change directions.

He got out of the car and went in and found his wife, left child in the car when he found his wife went over to her he called her went over to her picked her up and held her he did all of that he said he then he stepped into the other room saw the tv saw the mirror saw the books uh he then said that uh um he then said that he saw a hammer he said he saw a ball peen hammer there. This is what he's telling the cops now. This is he went back to the pastor's house after his wife is dead. And the cops come over there to interview him. Okay.

Now, now he says when he was there next to his wife or near his wife, he saw a bloody ball peen hammer. He said so he got mad and he picked up the hammer and slammed the hammer into the counter like he bashed the counter with the hammer god god damn it you know my wife why would he pick anything up ever he said at that point he said oh no now i've got my you know stuff on the hammer and my you know blood that i've got on me and my fingerprints all over the hammer so what do i do holy shit now they're gonna blame me for it he says so he then took the hammer this is before he called 9-1-1 yeah he took the hammer and the paper towels up to the attic and put them in the attic and cleaned off the hammer and all that shit in the attic

then came downstairs and called 9-1-1 his wife was still fucking alive still breathing so even if that was true yeah your wife's still alive that's a critical fucking few minutes do that that he would do that okay uh he says that uh you know he was wiping the hammer he's wiping his hands things with blood he tells them that you know he struck the countertop in frustration he fearing his bloody prince would be over there and uh yeah so they end up going up to the attic finding the fucking yeah the bloody towels and the and the ball peen hammer and they say guess what we're charging you with the fucking murder dummy that doesn't seem like no behavior that anyone on earth would do ever ever ever especially someone who's

not a complete moron right i mean you're not not an idiot, sir, are you? So, yeah, they go up, they find it. They say it was under a pile of tubing and carpeting, which he hid the hammer under. So he even hid it. He didn't just throw it up there. He said they lifted it up and they observed a roll of paper towels, a wadded up pile of paper towels, and a small ball-peen hammer. By the way, a ball-peen hammer would be great for bashing out a tv screen without moving the tv off the stand it'd be great for it oh and also bashing a mirror and also throwing anything on it will horrify anybody seeing you do that yeah that's you are a madman and angry with a fucking hammer you are just breaking glass uh indiscriminately around

the house holy shit fucking crazy Fucking crazy. You're angry. Yeah. So, yeah, they said that they they they checked to see if they could locate a dent or a hole in the cabinet or the counter where he said he picked the hammer up and started banging on the countertop. He said he just did it really hard and they couldn't find a mark on the counter. So that was his whole reason for touching the hammer. It was like, ah, you know, this terrible frustration smash, but they couldn't find any damage

on the counter. I don't care what kind of countertops you have. In 1990, those are like... They're chlorine. Yeah, those are... Particle board wrapped. You hit that shit with a ball-peen hammer. You can barely hit that with a fork without it making a mark. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Not to mention, that's absolutely. So he's saying that the medical examiner says that there's blunt force head injuries caused the death. And so they're looking into this whole thing, obviously. Doesn't take them long until they uncover pretty quickly that Steve had been having an extramarital affair for a while yeah steve been fucking around yeah he's been fucking around with his secretary at the office god damn it steven steve uh this ended about six months before this all happened it ended in january but uh yeah he'd been having an affair with the secretary uh deborah aubrey is her name and uh been having an affair with her.

This affair, there's a lot of notes that went back and forth, emails. Who cut off her or him? They're not emails, but they're inter-office electronic system that they had. Well, that's the thing here. It's from August 89 to January 90. They slept together six times here at her house, at his house, and then, isn't hot a motel in tulsa yeesh all class all a motel in tulsa what do you want to bet yeah buddy yeah what do you want to bet the two ends uh the two end words of the name of that is motor launch oh you fucking know it go in there and go that's a nice bathtub to hide in when the tornadoes come.

I'll stay here. Jesus. A motel. Motel. In Tulsa. So over the course of about four months, they have sex about six times. So they do that. That's about the same amount as he's having with his wife right now.

That's what I mean. She's also extremely religious. She goes to church in Dewey, the town we did last time. She goes to church there. It's very town we did last time she goes to church there is very deep into the church both of these two are very religious uh they do break off the relationship uh during it there's a lot of notes that send he talks about his marriage with her yeah where he talks about the sexual problems and that's how it started and then they break it off in 1990 and it's like a mutual thing where they're both like, we shouldn't do this.

He tells, well, he even tells her, you should work this out with your husband. You know, you seem to love your husband. I think you should work it out with your husband and try to, you know, whatever. And she says, yeah, you should work it out with your wife. But they stay like friends and they still talk to each other about personal shit, which is not okay. Yeah, it's, it's, it's weird here. Seeing each other, knowing what each other look like naked. Yeah, not okay yeah it's it's it's weird here seeing each other knowing what each other look like naked yeah it's it's easy it's an easy one to fall back on she gave

him uh she says that she gave him at that point a mixtape of religious songs which she called quote some of her favorites oh boy so here's some christian rock for you pal thanks gee thanks thanks for the news. Yeah. So that affair, though, makes us go, OK, that's it doesn't prove anything, obviously, but it's not good. It's not his story. You know what I mean? Now, the autopsy is done here.

Yikes. The autopsy finds that they examined the brain and they found multiple fractures of the skull, some of which you could see externally. Yeah. That's how fucking bad this was. She wasn't going to make it. Yeah, it was bad. But they involved, it says, now I don't know what this means, but if you're into medical shit, you will. Both of these involve not only the calvarium or the upper rounded part of the skull, but also the floor or base of the skull on the inside. Oh, my God.

a part of the skull, but also the floor or base of the skull on the inside. Oh, my God. That's the part of the skull that lies just below the brain and begins right behind the eyes and goes back above the ear level and back to the back of the skull. And that was fractured. That was fractured. Wow. The brain itself was also extensively injured. There was a very large area of bruising on the brain on the right side toward the back,

which corresponded to a large area of injury on the scalp and skull, where many lacerations came together and produced a large open defect in the scalp. There was also a large open defect in the skull in the same area, and the brain was extensively bruised in that area. There were some bone fragments that had been driven inward into the brain and had cut or lacerated. These would really be tearing, not cutting. So there was lacerations on the brain surface in the area where the bruising occurred.

So it drove skull into the brain. That's how hard this was. Yeah, that's a lot here. In addition, there were scattered bruises on other parts of the brain, which were the result of transmitted forces from multiple blows that have been struck to the outside of the head. So it hits you on the right side, hurt your brain on the left side because it hits your skull over there.

So like a concussion. Yeah. So it hits you on the right side, hurt your brain on the left side because it hits your skull over there. So like a concussion. Yeah. When the skull is fractured like that, with that kind of brain trauma, it swells and comes through the skull. I've seen crime scene. It's horrible, man. It's so terrible. It's fucking disturbing. And that causes damage, too, because the brain is swelling through those holes and making more damage to the brain.

It's so fucked. Oh, it's all. And then she also, like I said, has skull fragments in there, so that's not helping either. And her brain's bouncing off of those. It's fucking horrible. Oh, Jesus.

Yeah. So the funeral comes around. Yeah. They haven't arrested Alan yet. No? They don't arrest him before the funeral. The funeral comes around, and a friend of

his named uh alan eastman i guess he uh steve told him quote i don't know if i did it or not i just don't remember what happened now alan denies saying that but i mean this alan eastman guy has no reason to lie about it he's just a buddy from church or whatever he doesn't care how raspy does he talk that's the other thing here uh now uh yeah people you know she was buried right after that and uh he you know they they all they all acted like everything was fine and then at the request of the district attorney's office though he turned himself in after the funeral on friday june 15th now here's what they're here's thing, what he's talking about. He's saying his whole case is there's a contact lens that was found on his wife's body.

Steve's saying that? Steve's saying that. Contact lens that is found, obviously. There is a contact lens found. That's not disputable. He says that this is obviously I can't be the killer because it's not my contact or his contact contact or her contact must have been the killer's contact dropped on top of her, which is also a thing or could have been a lot of times, too, especially back then. You'll get hairs, fibers, trace shit. That's actually from the sheet that they use.

It's from the environment, from the medical examiner's office from her goddamn job from her job from everywhere all right uh here though they he's she's this is his big thing and then they they end up finding that uh uh her optometrist says that he actually uh did prescribe her new lenses recently and those are that prescription so uh yeah but he's saying that she had lenses in her eyes uh and then she had yeah and then she had uh there was uh that that extra lens where'd that lens come from she only has two eyes that's the thing so that's so that means i didn't kill her is what he's saying here uh so he also requests a change of venue obviously because there's a lot of shit going on here. In this area, this is a pretty explosive thing.

Everybody goes to church, and there's only 30,000 people in this town. Everybody knows. Everybody. Plus, it was a young mother killed in her home by an intruder, possibly a black guy. Oh, my God. It was fucking, yeah. It was definite triage, all hands on deck, five alarm emergency. There's a raspy retard on the loose.

Oh, Jesus Christ. Oh, my God. Save us all. So, yeah, Allen submits three affidavits from people of the county and an expert and public opinion surveys and all this shit saying that, you know, everybody knows about the case. And the judge says, nah, we'll handle it here. We're good. Basically, the whole thing is they change publicity. They can change venues.

But they say that if the jurors say, yeah, I've heard some shit about it, but I'm an adult and I can take the case for what's shown to me here, then they're fine with it. That's how it works here. Now, they also he is pissed off because he wants the state to stop testing the ball peen hammer before the trial. Steven's had enough of it. Yeah. No more testing here. He says that it's fundamentally unfair to let the state with all of its resources to continue expert testing that he can't afford. See, a lot of states now they have a rule where you it's a dollar for dollar.

Whereas back then, I know. I don't know. But I like texas for a long time that was a big thing they were fighting for because they would spend a hundred grand to on experts to put somebody in the electric chair and they'd have a public defender with no money so it was like that's not really fair that's not a fair trial at that point i may be wrong, but I tend to view Oklahoma and Texas as very apples and apples litigiousness. They may fight about football, but they fucking... They get down with that.

They're similar, yeah. They're similar in a lot of ways. A lot of church and lethal injections going on. If they could just move the lethal injections to church, everybody could just go to a one-stop shop. So, yeah, he wants them to stop doing that. And the judge rules, yeah, the tests are real prejudicial to you because they make you look guilty. But other than that, they're pretty fair.

They have to test the shit to see if you're guilty, stupid. So there's that. Also, there's a video here the bartlesville police department videotaped the whole crime scene here shortly after they came to the house and the trial the court is going to present the videotape to the jury using the video portion of the tape but not the audio portion of the tape so they can you know point stuff out and speak over it just show you the whole scene not the cops going yeah we're over here and then uh so is he gonna check okay we're about it's all cop chatter in the background it's not like there's no narrative oh it's not like okay it's

no one going like we enter the kitchen yeah we go for it's none of that shit it's just a guy videotaping while people chatter oh oh okay i see what you're saying it's not like a cctv of no yeah of the interrogation of him. No, no, no. This is the actual crime scene. I've seen one of those. Yeah, it's disturbing. It's terrible.

It's absolutely awful. It's so bad. I don't want the audio. No, absolutely no. Well, this guy's saying he wants the audio. He's saying the audio, the relevant evidence may be excluded if its probative value is substantially outweighed by the danger of its unfair prejudice. They're saying that the audio, he said the audio portion will lay the groundwork for his challenge to the investigative procedures and to show that he was immediately considered the primary suspect, thereby causing police to abandon the theory of burglary by his, quote, shadowy figure.

That's how that we that's saying that the chatter in the background says dudes are saying shit like, what do you want about the dad? The husband did this. Yeah, or like, yeah, what about this? Does this... I don't see any... They're saying things like

it doesn't look like anyone broke in. This door wouldn't work like this. Well, then the positive part would be that they are taking all of that out, not putting it in. Exactly. You should be thankful they're taking that out. That's the point.

That's what the court is saying. Like, dude, this probably hurts you worse, as a matter probably hurts you worse right it's helpful without the word he's trying to say is facts prejudicial man right away they were looking at me well yeah obviously it's your wife in your house so they're gonna look at you first obviously then they'll look outside yeah it's every case did can we say the husband did it no okay then let's look outside but it'd be easiest to just say he did it because most of the time it's fucking him. All right. That's how it is.

So the trial comes along and Steve argues that the state failed to prove that his that his affair was a motivator to murder his wife. He says that he contends because this affair had ended months before the murder. It couldn't have been motive for killing his wife and that sort of shit. But the judge says, well, you still talk to her about your sex problems and things like that so it looks like you were looking for outside something there uh now uh they talk about the phone call obviously uh the thing is with the phone call and we'll talk about it the woman who took the call her fellow employee uh she thought it was steve the whole time hilarious she thought right away when she handed the phone to sandra she was like i think that's steve that's what she thought from the very fucking beginning here um so yeah that's the weird thing

is that you nah bitch nah it's not me it's not steve it's not steve it's not steve allen sandra's husband so he also contends that the ball peen hammer couldn't have been the murder weapon uh now the evidence is that the injuries were called caused by a blunt instrument uh but they don't know they don't know what the fuck did it they don't know for sure if it's a hammer if it's something else your fucking skull was broken into pieces so it could have been anything literally could have been a fist it could have been anything so i mean obviously probably not force wise yeah but yeah you'd have to send a ball some broken knuckles too so probably just just from you know bone on bone right so uh yeah but they don't know it's the hammer but they're

like that's what he hid so we're assuming that's probably the fucking weapon why would he hide nothing pretty good assumption he made himself look even guiltier here. And the state's expert testified he couldn't eliminate the hammer as a murder weapon. And Allen's own expert says that the manner in which the hammer was used could be a factor in all kinds of injuries. He said, because you could use the flat end. You could use the ball. You could just use it flat. Yeah, you could use it fucking flat.

Rack that fucking metal part in your hand and use the fucking wooden part of the club shit out of you can do anything they said there's so many different ways you could use a ball peen hammer to inflict injuries that you can't say that it couldn't cause it and i'll bet that guy just learned that and now carries a ball peen hammer everywhere even take a gun he's like this thing's amazing this thing's dangerous i like it now they they have the uh theresa miller Dillard's employee, who took the odd call there. And they said that they asked her, Jesus Christ, if I understand correctly, you and Sandra Allen were seen working and you had not seen Mr. Allen at that point in the evening the

call came in. Is that right? She said, no, not prior to the call. They said, so about 15 minutes after the calls when you first saw Mr. Allen. She said, yes. They're talking about the kid for a second. And they said, have you had the occasion to take past phone calls when he would call her? And she said, yes, I have.

And when he would call, would he ask for Sandy? And she said, yes, he would. In fact, when you initially took the call that night, did you think it was Steve Allen? And she says, yes, I did. I thought it was steve allen and she says yes i did i thought it was steve allen so uh he says now you took the call you were able to understand the caller because sandy said remember she couldn't understand the caller and this woman says yes i was the next question and the caller in no way appeared to be or sound retarded to you this isn't a court of law this is happening it's awesome and uh he says she says no and he says so when mr allen related to you that the caller sounded retarded that would

have been something different that you observed that is different than what you observed is that right and she said yes how hilarious this is a lead he made a phone call talk to her in his normal voice it was like fuck i gotta decide is sandy there yeah she was like yeah sure here you go and then she got on the phone he's like or something i don't know i couldn't understand him where's your husband because he's got to be raspy where is he where is he i don't know we're not trying to imitate i don't know what he could have sounded like to sound raspy it's hilarious challenged at the same time it makes no sense that's the guys that don't do impressions or don't do characters yeah that guy is me basically hey where's sandy there um this is what happens when i try to cover up a murder

you'd be in court going i swear i didn't call people be calling you fucking challenged in court call me a raspy retard oh perfect jesus christ then it goes from there and this is i know it's bad to keep saying it but it's terrible in fucking court hysterical that's a thing quote sandra does sandra indicate to you in any way that she thought the caller was steve answer no she didn't uh question okay and does steve have a raspy voice i don't even remember at this point uh he says i'm sorry she says i just don't remember at this point quote is steve in any way retarded what she then says a doctor quote i don't i'm i gotta catch my breath she's like i don't think hello she took this fucking very seriously i don't think i'm qualified i don't think so but i don't think i'm qualified

to make a medical judgment that was a serious question in court she's like i don't know eternity's on sale i work in fucking dillard you want a coach purse i get you 10 off other than that i got nothing how are you talking about so uh unbelievable this is crazy as shit now the uh the defense are i'm sorry these here the the prosecution they do say, quote, this is one of the investigators, as he walked off, he left tennis shoe prints. The only other prints I could find in the area matched the tennis shoe print of Mr. Allen. There's no other footprints in the house.

No bloody footprints, no footprints in the carpet, no footprints in the wet grass, no footprints anywhere except for his tennis shoes. It's kind of tough there. I don't think the person went over and smoothed over the carpet real quick and all wet grass. No footprints anywhere except for his tennis shoes. It's kind of tough there. I don't think the person went over and smoothed over the carpet real quick and all the grass. So, yeah, another,

the defense here, they talk about how Steve, that there's a doctor that's conducted psychological testing on Steve and the psychological testing reveals that Steve just doesn't have

the personality type to do this. No? Case closed. Oh. I mean, that's, we should miss i mean can i dismiss the personality alone a motion to dismiss he said it's not him he's too nice for this that's what the guy said he went to school so we're done here right no they said that that's

not going to be good enough sorry he could have just been nice to the doctor they said that uh this is amazing this is the lawyer a lawyer said this in court psychological testing will also show that some of some of steve's statement regarding his behavior at the time that he found his wife and also thereafter were a result of psychological trauma and reactive disorders that he experienced from finding his dead he went into some otherworldly right you know thing he said it will also establish at the time steve found his wife after he shook her and got her own blood and got her own blood on him he went through a period of quote reactive psychosis yeah he's he has no idea what's going on at that and that's in that

the psychosis caused some very bizarre actions on behalf of steve the lawyer says it will be established that he hid something that's not the murder weapon that he panicked. It will be established quite frankly, that Steve did some really stupid things in the house that night, but it will also be established that he did not kill Sandra. Okay. I can't wait for this.

He will also establish Steve's an active father who's involved with the raising of his children. Although they had problems, Sandra and Steve, that Sandra and Steve had problems, problems with the sexual nature, that Steve loves Sandra and that Steve was committed to try to work out that marriage and make it work. There will be witnesses here to tell you that from both sides of the case. So basically, he's saying the prosecution is just saying sex pervert killed his wife. That's the bottom line.

Whereas we're going to go. Yeah, sure. He wanted to bang his wife. But on that's who cares so uh the defense here they say that this is in his psychosis that uh he steve went back to sandra and at this point he he loses it that's what the psychologist he loses it and he decided uh he decided to go uh to go get his son to go check on his son but then he says that he has to wipe off his hands, to go check on his son. But then he says that he has to wipe off his hands. He's got his wife's blood all over his hands. He's going to pick his son up.

Then he decides he needs to call 911. And then he sees the hammer and picks the hammer up and slams it down on the kitchen counter. And he says he doesn't know what to do. He panicked. He ran. He put the hammer in the attic thinking he'll be the suspect. He has blood all over his hands. We will establish for you that

he has a hammer in his hands and dumb and stupid. It will be established. And as bizarre as crazy as it may be, he hit a hammer, but that's not the murder weapon. They said he went downstairs and I mean, Jesus Christ. He says you'll hear from expert testimony

that this was a classic case of bewilderment of one of do I go to her and there will be testimony that he tried to give mouth to mouth. He wiped her mouth with a towel, but he couldn't do it. It will be established that he went through a period of psychosis inside that house. They said

he's an accountant. It'll also be established that Steve went through emotional trauma that night. He's not used to seeing this as an accountant. No. You call fucking 911 and you help somebody. That's the first thing. You're in an emergency. Get your head out of your ass. You're not four.

No. You didn't fuck. Oh, no. I'm going to go run and watch cartoons now. How much do you love her? Yeah. How much do you fucking save her life, man? The prosecution's saying as much as a half hour went by before he called 911.

What? A fucking half hour. Holy shit. Bro, she was still alive for that half hour. I mean, I don't know if they could have helped her, but it's more of a chance than if you leave her bleeding out in the fucking living room for a half hour. That's a long time. That's a fuck of a long time.

Especially when you've just seen what you've just seen. That's like six weeks. That seems like he was waiting for her to die and she fucking wouldn't die. So's like i guess i just gotta call here for a while that's why he was like is she talking yeah so that's what it looks like he also says that cloth fibers found under her fingernail do not match the clothing that steve was wearing the night of the murder problem is a she works at dillard's uh what do they have there all day what is it like 70 clothing uh number one and also before she left for work she did fucking laundry and folded all the laundry so she's gonna have fabric fibers of

god knows how many different types of clothes that aren't his under the fingernails so uh yeah that's that seems pretty obvious uh emergency personnel they testify that two contact lenses were removed from her clothing at the hospital and were misplaced. Later, one whole contact lens and another partial one were removed from her body during the autopsy. So that whole thing of where's the other contact lens? They lost it at the hospital. They said when it came in, the evidence was inventoried as that. And it got it got when they were, you know, in the whole mix of shit.

You can't lose evidence, but that's what they're saying. They testify that they they personally, the personnel, emergency personnel. That's different because they're not in an evidence collecting manner. They're in a saving life. So they'll just throw shit aside. That doesn't matter to them. If this is not. Is this helping me save her?

No. Get the fuck away from me. She's not dead. Then she's not evidence at the moment. And we are documenting things as we try and fix it absolutely yeah yeah uh so they uh uh they also said that uh the defense tried to say they tried to do reenactments and said that this shit because the blood spatter is a big deal here not only does he have like blood like on him like he's got spatter all over him that's not speckle spatter not easy all over the place and they're saying that that and he they're trying to say

that the spatter came from shaking her so hard that fucking blood spatter got a lot of splashing that's you you can't shake a human that hard yeah right 100 no no yeah the velocity of coming off of right physics don't allow that you got to be punching her yeah that's the thing so uh that's ridiculous they also testified no body tissue was on the clothing steve was wearing which who knows what he did with it and uh that sort of thing and also that his lawyers gave him a lie detector test and he passed it so thank god for them i mean if his lawyers gave him one, I'm sure it's fine. That's a good one. But that's not admissible in court, obviously,

but that's just part of their whole thing here. So the verdict comes in, and verdict, guilty. They find him guilty. He's terrible with a defense. He's a bad defense, yeah. They said when the guilty verdict was read out loud, her family, snavelies were you know were were very happy they said they were no no they were they were they all kind of

gassed and they were murmuring prayers and shit like these people are nice people these aren't like the uh yeah fuck that motherfucker yeah they're not that type uh the one they said the mother said quote thank you jesus thank you um uh his parents were sad obviously his sister was crying alan steve and alan's sister um he was just shaking his head while this was going on that her father uh sandra's father joe said that the family has been at peace throughout the trial because they have a strong faith in god he said he and his two sons are associate pastors at the church in Missouri there. He says, quote, we're happy with the verdict,

but we're not gloating on the fact that a young man with a bright future has gone the wrong way. Exactly the right way to handle that. I mean, there's no whatever your grief brings you, but that's the healthy way to handle that. I don't know. I mean, whatever it is. Also, Joe says that he and his wife here, the Sanders parents, temporary custody and they're going to seek guardianship of the three children. Sounds good. They raised her to be really, really nice.

So it sounds good. But that's everybody handles that different. But the vengeance thing. I mean, I don't know. I just saw the way my family handled it when we had my great grandmother get murdered there. And it was I remember as a kid being like because you just watch a lot of tv so it's like who did it and all that let's get them i remember my dad going it really doesn't matter yeah and i was just like huh and my dad's a my dad is not a calm guy no generally he's uh he's got a temper yeah and he's

you know he's a lot like me you know what i mean mean? I'm a lot like that. So, but he was just like, it's not even for what? He was like, yeah, I mean, okay. And then they caught the woman and it was like a, you know, she ended up going to prison and everything for 20 years or so. And, but it was like, nobody cared about that part. They were like, well, she's gone. So what does that part matter? That was our, that was our thing of it.

It was like, well, none of us are allowed to deal with it. So what do we really care what happens to her? we'd like her to be off the street to not do this to other people of course but we it didn't make us feel any better that she went to prison i remember hearing oh she got convicted and went to prison and none of us felt it didn't change one iota of emotion for us we were like okay well that's she's still dead yeah we still don't have her so who fucking cares? So I feel like these people have a similar attitude,

so I kind of understand that shit. Now, sentencing here comes around, and this is a death penalty case. Of course. He is up for the death penalty, and the only two options are death or life without parole. That's the only ones.

That's it. Those are his options. You, sir, may fuck off life without parole. That's what they give him his options. You, sir, may fuck off. Life without parole. That's what they give him. Yeah.

He is a white accountant. Yeah. And they don't really have- With a pay lawyer. They don't- They say in the wire. You got a pay lawyer? You got a pay lawyer. They also don't have a whole bunch of premeditation.

That's the other thing. It's not crazy. It doesn't look like- It doesn't look like a ritual killing. If he beat her for five years beforehand or something. It godless event yeah yeah exactly it was there was jesus was here right for this one so uh he has appeals obviously 92 93 97 he has appeals 97 was finally his denial for his writ of habeas here 93 though, though, his appeal is that he complains that the trial judge's questioning of witnesses was prejudicial.

Now, trial judges, generally, obviously, their job isn't to question, but if there is some question of clarity, that the lawyer and the witness understand it, but if the judge is like, hold on a second, what I'm asking, is this this and that?

He's establishing, if I don't understand it that the jury doesn't understand. He's got to specify. Yeah, sure. It's usually just clarifications. They don't go on a new line of questioning. Well, let me ask you, what were you doing there that night? They never say that shit.

They're always like, did you say it was him and you and them over here? OK, thank you. That's it. So it's always that sort of thing. And they they review it in the appeals, say in this trial, the judge questioned the defendant and two other defense witnesses. We've reviewed the trial transcript and the questions asked by the judge. Nothing in the record reveals the jury was informed of the court's opinions or views or that the defendant was unfairly prejudiced. Eat dicks.

On the venue, they say that's up to the judge. On the venue, they say that's up to the judge. None of the jurors seem to be, you know, despite the publicity in northeastern Oklahoma, there didn't seem to be, you know, all the jurors seem to say they were adults that could handle it. Now, on the hammer testing, he says that the trial court erred in allowing the state to present evidence of, you know, anything with the hammer because they tested it and he didn't want them to. They were like, no, they're allowed to test shit. He also says they erred in allowing the state to present evidence of the affair

with the secretary and allowing rebuttal evidence by two witnesses. Now, you have to build that in this case. You gotta show that. Yeah, he says because the affair had ended about six months before the death, he urges that it wasn't relevant. Well, it's state of mind.

And you got to establish a motive. Yeah. Motive is to get out of this marriage to possibly get more strange. That's the thing. And if it is in you at all to betray your wife, that's something. Right. All the evidence. But it's something to think about.

Certainly brings a character. That's what it is. But it's something to think about. It certainly brings a character into question. Well, that's what it is. He says that this evidence was only offered to prove him, quote, a bad man. And its prejudicial effect far outweighs its probative value. The court says, no, it's relevant.

If you killed some guy at work, that wouldn't matter. Then they'd say, yeah, you're just trying to say you're a dick. But you killed your wife that you had an affair on. It's fucking different. That matters. Or if you killed a guy at work, it doesn't matter unless that woman was his wife. Right. Yeah.

The person you were fucking. Someone he was. Yeah, exactly. And now it certainly matters. That would be something to think about here. He raises five issues, though, here. The contact lens thing. He says the state failed to prove his relationship

with the secretary motivated the murder. He says that what about that unusual phone call from the stranger that should be investigated more? That's probably who killed her. The stranger, obviously. We're pretty sure of it. Fucking duh. Yeah.

That's the thing. I'm pretty sure that's who did it. Pretty positive about that. So I'm not qualified to make a medical judgment. So they said, uh, also just whether there's enough evidence there. He says that his experts were qualified and testified the physical evidence was consistent with his theory of the case. And, you know, he's saying the state's witnesses are bullshit, basically. He also says the insufficiency of evidence.

He says the ball peen hammer could not have been the murder weapon because one of his experts said that. He said there was evidence that were this is all the blunt instrument shit here he also said uh this was an extremely they said it was a hard caught faith hard fought case in which virtually every detail was challenged and which uh very able counsel presented both sides pay lawyer uh the fact that the the fact that the evidence was challenged however does not mean the evidence was insufficient uh eat dick sir continue to be in prison so that all today this doesn't happen by the way today this there's this is over before you even get get started with investigation the amount of cameras that are out oh forget about it this doesn't even happen no everybody's doorbell they were like there's no one on your porch. Your ring doorbell says, you're simply safe.

Video verification technology says no one was in your house. So I'm sorry. Matter of fact, we see you murdering your wife. There you are. Oh, look at that. Why are you standing there? Okay, I guess he's going to knock the books off the shelf for some reason. That's interesting.

Super weird. Is he making a sandwich? Did anybody check to see if he made a... I think it's ham. He's making a ham sandwich. Okay. That TV was definitely cheap. It was an Amazon special.

He gets hungry. Well, not back then. It wasn't an Amazon. It was a fucking Xena. I mean, today. Yeah, today. I'm going on today's fucking observation. We watch him murder her today.

That's what happens. He stole the Apple TV. He just put that right in his pocket. We watch him murder her today. That's what happens. He stole the Apple TV. Just put that right in his pocket. So 2003 comes around and there's some DNA popping up here.

The judge is allowing possible further DNA testing in this case here. They're going to test certain things here. He's maintaining his innocence. His attorney says there was male DNA that didn't belong to steve under the victim's fingernails that's what she's saying that's what they're saying now uh the judge said there's no he declined the request to search for new evidence but allowed them to file affidavits on that particular piece of evidence but earlier but later on he ordered testing of the fingernails and the ruling came in uh that the motion claiming that if a third party's dna found, it would be evidence of another person's presence and blah, blah, blah.

The district attorney says this is all a smokescreen. This is the testing they're talking about. They're not saying that this wasn't tested. It says, quote, in the first test, one half of the nail samples were tested. With the recent court order, the second half of the samples will be tested with the recent court order the second sample second half of the samples will be tested it's the same exact samples they just cut the nails in half and that way it's it's a backup sample and an a and a b sample it's just how you do science we're gonna test that too and it's gonna come back same shit it's literally the same things

like so now we're testing the other half of the nail well there'll probably be the same shit here uh they also said that uh uh you know they're talking about patio glass and shit like that and the judge says not enough fuck off yeah dna doesn't mean shit still in prison sir yeah uh he's in prison unfortunately for this other man there's an actor named steven lee allen another one another one and uh an actor named him he's been in a million things he's on up till recently to really brooklyn 99 really he's like a working guy that you'd see in a sitcom a bit actor in a sitcom been in a million things and his name is stephen lee allen and if you google stephen lee allen he spells his with a v whereas our our guy in this story spells with a ph on it but doesn't matter whichever way you type it

it comes up with both poor bad so good luck here now there is a website here uh the site is uh uh oocities.org slash steve underscore alan underscore info uh backslash index you know html dot html that's the website now this website is the steve is innocent website get out okay it is the that web address that web address you're chasing it's not great the amount that's a terrible it's a bad way it's not catchy no doesn't roll off the tongue the amount of websites that exist and you're stuck with that one yeah it's um it they have like every uh most everything from the trial every testimony it's transcripts not just court documents it's fucking transcripts transcripts transcripts of pre-trial transcripts of appeals transcripts of every inner dude it's nuts i read all of this it's like buried on 8chan

i am i i am oh my god my head is spinning from this case i've done so this is the most reading i've ever done for a case so every drop of this trial and these appeals and at the bottom of the page of here and at the top there's a picture of it's a very looks like it was made in 1996 this website first of all uh there's a picture at the top of like steve and sandra together uh there and then uh at the bottom it says quote steve's family and friends continue to search for information leading to the person responsible for this horrible crime we're hopeful that someone has information that is capable of freeing steve and possibly convicting the guilty person yeah

they're gonna look for the real killer jimmy oj style get out there uh so yeah that wow that and that's that he's still in prison life in prison no chance they're getting out and uh that is bartlesville oklahoma and that is the poor allen family that is one of the worst uh uh planning terrible yeah not just dismount not even just he just the whole thing was the whole thing sucks not to mention man i mean i it makes sense for him to do it then because his two older kids were gone so they could have you know they would have been in the mix right the younger one doesn't know what's going on he's too he can't exactly testify all right so i feel horrible for these fucking kids

these worst three kids had to grow up with no parents they lost nobody that's horrible and they're they're grandparents and family and support that's not easy but it's not your parents and especially if you know the circumstances of how this happened that your mom was murdered oh yeah by your dad that's extra bad so my cousin married a girl who that happened to her and it it fucking ruins people man it makes them such such difficult to manage people and yeah it has. Yeah, it has to be. It has to be. Think about the emotions. I can't.

I mean, the emotions are fucking horrible. It's horrible. But that's Bartlesville, Oklahoma. Wowza. Holy shit. If you like that episode, I know what you can do. You can get on Purple Icon, Apple Podcasts. Give us five stars.

It helps so much. Doesn't matter what you say. Say it's very dark in here and i'd like to get out so i'm finishing this review i can handle this i can do this so that helps a lot help us out help counteract some of the negative people out there and that would help a lot and uh yammer thank you thank you so much for everyone that does that head over to shut up and give me murder.com for everything crime and sports and small town murder related merchandise, all sorts of stuff

especially though, tickets to live shows, my god, so many live shows upcoming here, Denver and Salt Lake City are sold out, but February 15th and 16th we're in Indianapolis at the Egyptian, then the 16th we're in Louisville, then we're in San Francisco in March, two late

shows, that's going to be so much fun at Cobbs. That's going to be great. Later on in March, we're in Detroit and we're in Cincinnati, which is the 27th and 28th. Nashville shows are sold out. Then we go to Austin and Oklahoma City and then to Boston, which is pretty much sold out. And a few tickets left in New York there for May. And then we go to June and the rest of it.

But Louisville, Indiana, let's fucking party. Let's do it. Let's party. We cannot wait. We're really jacked for that. We really can't wait for that. So come out and see us there. If you're wondering, should I go to a live show or not? I understand what you're thinking. You might think you hear this and then you think, oh, it's a live show so we'll come out real casually and

sit down and be like, what's up? So we're doing this thing and then we sit. No, that's not our show. Our show's a balls out comedy show. It's's a fucking it's a it's not a time we here we're way more casual here than we are at the show we have to be because here you're you're you're driving in your car you're at work you don't need every two second stimulation it would be bad for you actually you want some story laughs laughs story laughs live show, we just pound you with laughs. You're going to get a story, too. You're going to get a whole story.

You're going to get pounded at the same time. But you're sitting in a chair at the comedy club, so we're comedians. We want that response. We want that laugh. We don't want to sit there and tell you a story and have you sit there and look at us. Even if you're interested in the story, we want you to be interested and laughing. That's what our show is it's a comedy show that's right we tell a story just like we do here we use a lot of pictures in it too

and it is wild shit so please come and check us out there let us pound you let us pound you good please please let us pound you i can't believe you said that i don't know what i'm thinking i don't know what i'm thinking here you're getting floundered well that's something the comics would say to each other fucking pounded them you know you've heard people have a good set and you'd be like i fuck that audience's face so hard like okay we say horrible things we just sold you a show by telling you we're gonna fuck your face i just i just let you in on behind the scenes what every comedian's talking about it's all it's all horrible aggressive sexual thing oh man it's a good marriage comedy it's good it is we fuck each

other hard right right where it counts right where it counts unbelievable yeah come see us at live shows do that shut up and give me murder.com is where you get your tickets to that. Follow us on social media, because like we said, Columbus is on sale now. Now the people that follow us on social media knew that Monday. Whereas you guys are finding out now Columbus is on sale, what did I say, November 21st. We're at

Columbus, same place we were last year. Real nice theater. I think it's a Davidson, I think. Yes, it is. Yeah, Davidson. Very nice theater. It's awesome. So come out and check us out there we're very uh we're pumped to be back in columbus and all of our shows uh very excited so social media we are at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook and at small town murder on instagram you can find us all throughout there also if you want to be a hero of ours god damn it you could be such a hero you can't and People, you are heroic, and you come through for us all the time, and we're going to gush about these people in just a moment.

If you'd like to join the growing list of our wonderful producers, and in addition to that, be able to hear our Patreon episodes, our bonus episodes every little while when we do them, you can do that very easily by going to patreon.com slash crime and sports or head over to PayPal. Use our email address, which is crime and sports at gmail.com. Do that now.

And quickly, I must say also, just a reminder, if you're listening to the episode and there's weird like spots, repeat or skip or so weird, do stuff like that. That is not us. We didn't do it.

That's not us. We put out. Believe me, it's a fucking pristine edit, pristinely edited thing. We upload it to a platform. Somehow, some of the platforms don't work with each other. Our platform, if it's too long of a show, Apple Podcasts will chunk it up in a different... It's so weird.

You put it into a feed and then it's disseminated to all these platforms. It's not us. No. So if you have any... If it does happen to you, whatever platform you're using, complain to them. Don't tell us because we can't do anything about it. We feel for you, but you tell us and then we go, God damn it. And we're right there in the same spot with you.

We can do nothing to help it work. Tweet at them. Tell them to fix it. We have called. We've yelled. We've screamed. It's in the wheels or in motion. But if it happens and you need to say something, say it to them because we really can't make it.

There are other podcasts that are experiencing it also, and they're not saying much either. So, I mean, they only say it to the podcast. The podcast does what they can do, and that's really it. Outside of that, it's everybody that puts it up means. So yell at them. Yell whatever you podcast way that you listen. Yell at them. Podcast way that you listen.

Speaking of that, Jimmy, what podcast way you listen? You know what I need? Like a ball-peen hammer, I need to be hit with the names. Pound me, Jimmy, with the names. This week's executive producers are Tonya Volanek, Tiffany Robertson. No, Rubenstein. Rubenstein. I saw that. I was like, oh. What am I doing? You like Tiffany

Robertson, too. Yeah, she's great, too. Jordan Bennett and Simon Shedd. Thank you. Christine Crew, Catherine Murray, and Carissa B. Thankon, too. Yeah, she's great, too. She's great, too. Jordan Bennett and Simon Shedd. Thank you. Christine Crew, Catherine Murray, and Carissa B. Thank you guys so much. Thank you guys. You guys are awesome.

It's so humbling, and it's amazing to see you guys doing what you do for us. Thank you. Alice Daly, Jackie Sukup, Jeffrey A., Chelsea Morgan, Janice Hill, Blue, with no last name, just Blue. Thomas Smith, Patrick Lau. Emily Riefenhofer, no, Riefenhoff, Rupin, yep, Matthew Seddon. Something German. Yes. Matthew Seddon, Susanna Platt, Chris Brudendahl, I think, Sandra Workman, Kristen Stopzig. What is that?

Oh, it's Kristen Stop being a grim Karen. That's what it is. And that is love. Amanda Rutherford. Beautiful. Alyssa Atkinson. Jesse Hartman. Joshua Austin.

Martina Lulonga. Lulonga. I can never. I always. Hi, Martina. See you in San Francisco. See you then, dear. Thanks for the Christmas card.

Alexandria Frazier, Chad Sutton, James Martyr, Maria Gohl, Kenneth Baker, Corey Coon, I think. Yeah, it's two Ks. That's tough. Rachel Stora, Christine... No, Christopher. Christopher Irvine, Josephine Gavinette, Gavin, Gavin, Gavin, I think maybe Kelly Pearson, Christina Thomas, Reagan Shalkley, Rachel Cox, Miranda B, Robin Anderson, Annette Carey. I think that's what that says.

Diana Tripp, Gretchen Harrison, Susan Harvey harvey uh hannah uh colelle uh hannah colelle tony francisco kristen with no last name uh jocelyn uh cooksy donated both ways thank you so much jocelyn uh kristen walker krista walker damn it uh susan suzy brandt peyton meadows joshua hilliard uh yes uh pinwheel books i don't know what it is. Google it, I suppose. Megan Wickline. Anna's, no. Yeah. Anna's Herbalife.

Herbalife? Herbalife. Herbalife, right? Herb. I think it is. Yeah. Ben. Ben Saulnier.

Carla Broman. Not Sure 3. That's what they wanted. All right. I don't know. We are sure. Yeah. We are positive.

Katie Emerson. John Lopez. Ashley Veo. Jason Covert. or three that's that's what they wanted all right i don't know we are sure yeah we are positive uh katie emerson uh john john lopez ashley vo jason covert uh christopher nesmith or ness smith true true design homes no house hoss what is that hossey i think it's true design house i think that's probably that makes sense sarah rumhart nicholas howard Charles Buche, Lisa Weikert, Madison Schilling, Sharon Gooch. This week is brutal. Samantha Ballard, Gwendolyn Van Veen, Miles McCallan, Anya, Lanny Blunk, Bobby Sanchez, Lauren Hill. Probably not that one, right? No, it's Lauren Hall. That's Lanny. Lanny Blunk. Bobby Sanchez. Lauren Hill. Probably not that one, right? No, it's Lauren Hall.

That's why. Well, definitely not. Gary Howard. Thanks, Gary. Thanks, Mark. Cassie Howard. No, Cassie Harris. Jesse Bone.

I think B-O-A-N. Allison Howard. Trevor Greenberg. Brittany Whitehill. Mario Guerra. Karen, no, Corinne Campbell. Rosa Martinez. Jesus.

Whew, breather. Samantha Gibson, Deborah Bryant, Emma Kiger, Toast. No last name. I think that's a cat or a dog. Toast, I believe so. Yeah, yeah. He's a good boy. He is a good boy.

Alex Bacon, Susie Collette, Stephen Hancock, Shanna with no last name, Tracy Mitchell, Jesse Mendez, Jessica Hagen, James Pugsley, Anais Ross, Laura Ashburn, Michaela Campainer, Trevor Greenberg, Kelsey Cunningham, Marissa Miller Miller Alyssa Sylvester Valerie Jordan Zach Savignon Jordan Galash John Clapsaddle Jim Crow

Kate Gilbert Sam Pippenger Jim Darkangelo Alana Ochoa shit strap no strap strap ht 1983 christina she's trapped i don't know what's happening i guess not christina christina keeter caitlin cody tara strumminger allison uh wenman uh joanne joanna bond uh part gary that guy man he's a he's a hell of a man it's true i've never heard those words neither have they uh randall gets taylor uh let's set such nope sorry taylor such in the lap such in the lap you shouldn't call her shit strap. It's better than that. John Kensinger.

Harry Harrison Dunham. Katrina Hotari. Megan O'Donnell. Clementine Brown. Alex B. Mayer. Matt Davis. Mary Weaver. Kevin Gillian.

Angela Preciadio. Listen, I'm doing my damnedest, and it's so fucking hard. The last people I have, I like to write down in my notes right quick the people that send me things. Like James Eberle and his wife Ashley had a baby Jackson. Congrats. He is in the NICU. I don't know. And they are the sweetest people.

And, and I hope a little Jackson pulls through, man. Thank you guys all been there. That's rough. I know you have. Thank you guys all so much for, for the support that you guys offer us.

We can't do this without you and, pull through a little Jackson. We're thinking of you, buddy. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody for all that you do. I honestly,

man, everything you do, it's not just the donations. Obviously that's huge, but it's your support on everything and how you guys always kind of give us the benefit of the doubt right that we're not ass wipes assholes but not right not ass wipes right so you know you know we're not bad people and we appreciate that we try really hard to to handle uh things with grace and class and uh we don't have a lot of it but what we do have we reserve for situations we really scrape the bottom of the tank, though,

to get it all out. But we find it and we dig deep to be the best people that we can. We try. And we don't want to let you guys down, so thank you guys so much for doing what you do for us. Hopefully we succeed sometimes. Jimmy, what if they wanted to tell you something like that

and nice things that you do for them? How could they do it? You can remind me of my classlessness at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. Thank you guys for them. How could they do it? You can remind me of my classlessness at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. Thank you guys

for really coming to our rescue every week and we really, really, really appreciate it. Where can they find you? If you want to remind me of my godlessness, you can do that

at JimmyPIsFunny or just copy and paste my name from the show description. Make it easy on yourself. But everything like that. With that said everybody i got no air it's been our pleasure we'll see you next week Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.