Small Town Murder - #156 - Lies Can Be Deadly in Salem, Massachusetts

Episode Date: January 30, 2020

This week, in Salem, Massachusetts, a local woman goes missing, and the local police do everything they can to find her. Including consulting friends, neighbors, witnesses, the town witch, and the community pervert. What follows is a twisted road of fabrications, half truths, and complete lies. Will justice be found, or will it slip away? Plus, you'll never look at George Washington the same again!! Along the way, we find out that witches are psychic, that just having a boat won't necessarily get women to like you, and that sometimes you actually get what you want!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Salem, Massachusetts, when a local woman goes missing, local police consult the rest of the locals, including the local witch and the local pervert. Welcome to Small Town Murder. hello and welcome to small town murder yeah oh yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james

petra gallo i'm here with my co-host jimmy westman thank you folks so much for joining us again on another wild crazy edition of Small Town Murder. It's been crazy lately, and it's not going to stop today because this is one of the just a weird, interesting case we have today. We're in Massachusetts, and Massachusetts doesn't let us down, as we'll get to in a second here, because our last episode in Massachusetts was absolutely bonkers. I don't remember it. Oh, you will in a minute when I got to it. But yeah, thank you guys for listening. Quickly, we'll go through the top house cleaning here.

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Crime and sports at gmail.com. And you can make that donation there. And good God, is everything appreciated. or head over to PayPal and use our email address, CrimeAndSports at gmail.com, and you can make that donation there. And good God, is everything appreciated. And I believe next week we're going to put out another Patreon episode. So, yeah, we're going to keep those coming, Patreon episodes with weird stories that are kind of maybe not long enough for the regular show, but weird enough that we need to show them to you.

So do that. Check all that out. And before we get into this crazy story, I have to do the disclaimer quickly. It's a comedy show. It's a comedy podcast. That's it. We're comedians.

The story's real. We promise you that. There's nothing fake in there. We're not enhancing it to make it funny. Like, wouldn't it be great if he said this? That doesn't happen at all. It's all real stuff. And we make jokes about it.

That's the thing here. There's also murder. but murder is a small part of a murder story that's the thing an actual murder there's a lot of crazy that goes around a story yeah especially in a small town we've had stories where the mayor comes to the murder scene and just traipsing around you know making footprints in the blood puddles and the cops are too scared to tell them not to. That's the type of stuff that goes on. If you can't make jokes about that, I don't know what in the world is funny. That's what we're saying. We go out of our way not to

make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why would we do that? Because we're assholes but we're not scumbags. That's what we're talking about here. If that sounds good to you, we're going to have a good time. If you think that true crime and comedy and murder and stuff should never go together just there's no laughs in it yeah someone died and that's terrible it is terrible but there's also funny stuff and you know if you don't like that then you probably shouldn't listen to the show please you're gonna

complain later and then we're gonna tell you we told you not to listen i don't want to hear it yeah that's what i mean so you should go away but the rest of you whoever's left should stay put yeah and you should sit back and get ready to have a good time and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy all right let's go on a trip shall we let's do this we're coming from the south we are coming from north carolina last week nice it was nice down there it wasn't bad uh the story wasn't wasn't nice great the town sounded very. The town. It sounded very affordable. It sounded very affordable, whereas the murder itself was not good at all. But today we're heading up north to the northeast.

We're heading to Salem, Massachusetts. All right. That's Salem. Witch trials. Of witch fame. This has nothing to do with witches, although there is a witch in the story. Of course there is. Of course there is, obviously, Because why wouldn't there be?

Fucking weirdo. And it's small town murder and it's going to be weird. We'll just put it that way. It's in northeastern Massachusetts. The far kind of northeastern tip. Out in the northeastern Massachusetts panhandle. Right. This is some panhandle shit right here.

I'm sorry, guys. This is a weird little enclave, toolave too of like it's like a wealthy area that we'll talk about it that's about 35 minutes over to boston or down to boston i should say about an hour 20 to providence rhode island from there and about an hour over to marshfield massachusetts which was our last massachusetts episode episode 116 it was pocket robin jimmy it was the vampire pyramid scheme that was the really? It was the Vampire Pyramid Scheme. That was the last one? That was the last Massachusetts Vampire Pyramid Scheme.

If you have not heard that episode, please, we implore you, go back and listen to that. Go listen to James Sing. It is absolutely insane. It's a schizophrenic vampire. He's a nutcase, obviously. It's crazy. So this episode, is it's right in line with massachusetts this is in essex county uh it's 18 square miles this town but 10 of those

square miles are on water yeah so it's a lot of because there's islands so the lone it's a wild area of the country it's part of that the town water's part of the town because there's an island out in the middle of it that's also beautiful it's just fucking crazy oh it's gorgeous yeah it's just it's a strange it's interesting it's all i mean i get that stephen king stories all took place in maine yeah but this is not far from me as well this is what i mean this is like urban maine almost just down the beach it's just just down the road same weirdness it's it's all attached to that coast there so uh the motto of this place is uh still making history really that's what they say still making history that's not a positive or or yeah we don't burn women anymore so that's positive that's my point just still how about no how about we stop we apologize

for our history it's not been good we're this point. We're going to calm down on the history. Hey, everybody, we have other history. We have Revolutionary War stuff. Yeah, let's talk about that. That's what we'll concentrate on a little more. Nobody in the world knows anything else about anything you've done. Oh, the witches? Everybody. Well, they torched broads, right?

Yeah, that's the one. It's the place. They lit bitches on fire, right? That's what it was, yeah. Yeah, that's what they did the place so they let bitches on fire right that's what it was yeah yeah that's what they did right bitches on fire yeah that's the place so yeah it's not good let's keep that history yeah let's tuck it away tuck that away for we'll talk about it for a second but uh people got here colonists got here in 1626 in this area who was basically fishermen because it's a it sticks out in the ocean this this area here uh they arrived uh led by a man named roger conant and remember that name because it'll come he'll come up again actually in the story that last name will come up his leadership

here uh he led over the first couple years uh when they first got there and then john endicott replaced him by order of the massachusetts bay company oh so when they live when they first got there and then jean endicott replaced him by order of the massachusetts bay company oh so when they live when they give an order yeah you listen there's a bay company there's a bakewell back then yeah 400 year old company but um yeah he stepped aside and granted 200 acres of land and was granted 200 acres of land in compensation compensation for stepping aside gracefully being a cool dude about the whole thing. They're like, hey, Conant's an all right guy. There's places you can relax.

He could have fought it. He could have fought it. You know? He went quietly like Nixon or something and just went away. 200 acres for his troubles. That's it, you know? So these people, everybody kind of cooperated based on that because there were some people that were in the Conant camp and some people in the Endicott camp.

And they got together because the leaders worked out a nice resolution here. So, yeah, it's been good. So the name of the settlement in honor of this, this agreement, was changed to Salem, which is kind of a dirty form. It's kind of like a bastardized version's like a it's kind of like a uh it's it's a bastardized version of the hebrew word for peace oh so that's why they named it that yeah uh obviously there's the witches thing here so we got to go through that very very quickly there's plenty of podcasts you can go listen you can listen to all about witches here but uh the main deal with the witches it started with a woman named abigail and one named Betty Paris.

And their friends, they were playing with a Venus glass mirror and an egg. That was the thing. And so they said, well, we need to. Clearly, they're witches. Clearly, they should die for this. Imagine if there was a Ouija board around back then. Holy shit, they'd have killed every kid in town. Can you imagine?

Every kid burned. Can you imagine getting five people on board with 100% believing that somebody's an actual witch? Oh, yeah. Five people? Can you do that? I don't think that they did. I couldn't do it. I don't think that they did.

I think they were like, yeah, that was their way of dealing with women who they felt were a pain in the ass back then, I feel like. I'm not even fucking joking. I know that's been the joke, like sketches, comedy sketches, but I really feel like that's what it was. I feel like if they didn't like somebody, it was like, they didn't believe there was witchcraft? Come on, man. Are you sure?

You know what? Maybe they do, because there's people now that still believe in the devil and shit. So, I mean, people do believe in, and back then people were really primitive. They were really fucking crazy back then. they'd take anything and run with it 19 people were executed get the fuck out 19 people were executed here as a result of false accusations and uh yeah it's it's that's a lot it's a lot of fucking people man it's it's it's absolutely crazy uh it's uh also they the uh significant thing here there's a trial of uh of dorothy uh dorothy talby who was a mentally ill woman who was hanged for murdering her daughter because back then massachusetts made no distinction between

crazy people between criminal insanity and and and or just insanity and criminal behavior so they just were like yeah you're guilty and it was like a really not even it was a like a real legit not yeah not not like somebody going for a loophole somebody was like jesus christ she's wearing her underwear on her head she can't even write her name and we're gonna do this where she is she can't sign her own death warrant it's not good here so uh in 1775 february 26th uh local i guess local patriots people who are here wanted to uh rebel against the british raised a drawbridge at the north river and prevented british british colonel alexander leslie and his 300 troops from seizing stores and ammunition that were hidden in North Salem.

Goddamn heroes. Yeah, they protected that. And they ended up coming to that ended up quelling a war for that day. But then it broke out later on, obviously. So once we get around this canyon. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing here.

A group of, I guess, merchants here within Salem published a statement. Basically, they were they were kind of supportive of the monarchy of the British before that. A group of, I guess, merchants here in Salem published a statement. Basically, they were kind of supportive of the monarchy of the British before that. And then they released a statement saying, you know what? Fuck them. We decided, no, this is our spot now. We see that we can fight back. So, yeah, we'll go with this course. We're going to try that.

to try that yeah uh in august of 2010 the governor of massachusetts designated they said quote an act it was an act designating the city of salem as the birthplace of the national guard as apparently it was because that was approved by the house of representatives and then signed into law by barack obama in 2013 so it's the birthplace of the National Guard, Salem, Massachusetts, which makes sense because it's the farthest kind of east place hanging out there where if you were sailing over, that's where you would land if you knew where you were going and wanted to attack things. Seems like a nautical place to start. It's a good, yeah. I know Boston might have more walls and barricades and cannons and shit.

You'd figure that would be heavily barricaded. I found reviews of this place here. A lot of the reviews are nice because it's a quaint town, but there are also a lot of reviews from tourists. This is a heavy tourism area. It really is. Super big.

Especially at Halloween. Oh, I can imagine. Jesus Christ, it's insane. It's got to be a nightmare there at Halloween. So here's one. Here's a one-star review. And this is from a lifelong resident as they'll say of of many decades let's talk about it quote it's disgusting how salem has

declined for its residents oh boy if disgusting is the in the first yeah it's the second word of your review my husband and myself have lived here for 70 plus years okay so there that's of all, anywhere you live in 70 years, it's going to change. You can't expect it. It's exactly the same as 70 years ago. And an elderly person with an opinion, I can't wait to hear this. Oh, you know it. You cannot move without backed up traffic. There you go.

Roads are so neglected. No smooth riding. No free open space except a couple of those. Except a couple and even those those it's hard to park okay god forbid well you know what trade in the the the 83 buick or something a little smaller maybe get out of a packard yeah that's the thing she's driving her tucker and she's very straight down the street there's better technology grandma grandma back to de soto in first take the studebaker out of studebaker out of reverse before you try to give the hudson a push

the battery's dead jesus christ i'll pop the clutch so it's hard to park then ellipses after that and then it's a direct direct message to the mayor yeah mayor you have brought in too many buildings for business and housing too unsafe for kids now are they collapsing are the businesses are the buildings collapsing on the kids we are getting out of town for good can't live here you're 90 you're how do you live what are you you're did you were you born there and you're in your 70s? Are you from somewhere else? And you're much older. What's the difference?

Where do you got to go? We're getting out of town for good. Can't live here anymore. Sold our two houses and moving so we can breathe and enjoy what the earth used to be. Wow. Okay. Salem is way overcrowded for the land. It's on.

Then all capitals. This sentence, the last one. Look around, Mayor. This city is not for us residents and is only for tourists. Exclamation point. for the land it's on then all capitals this sentence the last one look around mayor this city is not for us residents and is only for tourists exclamation point so yeah move to new mexico wow there's plenty of space there see what you think about that nobody wants it that's why see what you think about all that open space it's so weird that when you get places that are gathered around like ocean they're crowded it's bizarre like to be there i've noticed that about like san francisco you're like oh it's beautiful all these hills and ocean why

are all these people here i wonder strange right isn't that odd beautiful places people like to be isn't that weird that old lady better never go down the cape because that shit is insane now there's no land it's all houses and that's the thing that's because it's nice because it's nice people want to be there that's the point jesus it's nice. Because it's nice. People want to be there. That's the point. Jesus Christ. People go, San Diego's so crowded. Is it really? It's 79 degrees year-round and sunny right by an ocean.

I can't imagine why there'd be people there. It's so weird. In July, grab a margarita and try to blend in. It's awesome. It's odd that Milwaukee isn't quite as crowded, isn't it? Because you'd expect that. Isn't that strange? In December, way more people in San Diego than Milwaukee. Isn't that a weird thing? odd that milwaukee isn't quite as crowded isn't it because you'd expect that that's strange in

december way more people in san diego than milwaukee isn't that a weird thing i'm shocked by it i'm surprised baltimore isn't better it's like no so uh the reason that las cruces is not a destination christ so i found a two-star review also so it's you know they're a little easing up on that was just all hatred the last one vitriol she's pissed she's pissed this one uh then her husband's like yeah we're very upset she goes right roger and he goes yeah that's right yeah what's have you said are we watching this he doesn't care uh quote salem is a diverse booming city and a very popular tourist destination there are countless restaurants shops museums and more which draw people in from around the world as great as this is for the city's economy and

culture the expanding catering toward tourists rather than residents is beginning to squeeze out some of the less fortunate citizens and we'll talk about that quickly and yeah many commodities in the city have simply become too expensive for many citizens so i believe the focus needs to return to the citizens not the money makers good luck yeah that's like saying the news needs to return to facts and not clickbait well that would be great but we unfortunately money exists right so we've made that more monetarily gainful than the fucking facts so we're fucked sorry we've ruined the tourism lady just embrace it during tourism season nobody's going there in january just enjoy yourself yeah now people in this town uh it's a little above our

normal but it's it's it's small and it's weird and it's perfect uh it's right now it's 43 146 which is up it was about 38 000 when this case happened in about 1991. All the ages are pretty average, about 37, 38. 55% female, so way more females than males, which is odd. The witches. That's what it is. Maybe that's what I don't know. The witches. Less married people, more single people.

A good amount of the 25 to 34-year-old demographic there, so that will account for the single people. Race of this town, 72% white. So not as white as some. 4.9% black. 2.5% Asian. About 17% Hispanic. Actually, exactly the national average on Hispanic. 17.6%.

Interesting. Interesting. 57.7% of the people here are religious. Yeah. Now, I don't know if like... Wait, what? Yes. Now, I don't know if like witch yes now i don't know if like if like witchcraft

counts i don't even care like it's like a witchcraft or like if you're wiccan or whatever i don't want to cross the i don't want to cross the streams on on these i'm not going to get into that shit but on the dark arts yeah but i don't know if the dark arts are involved but 48 are catholic because catholics are the baptists of the north especially here otherwise 1.2 percent jewish hey so happy it's been a while yeah yay uh there we go uh in this county this county is a kind of a democratic county as as most of Massachusetts is. About 58% voted Democrat in the last election. 35% Republican.

About 7% Independent. I don't know if there was a witch running. I don't know if somebody was one of the... Right-ins. Yeah, right-ins for some weird thing. I don't fucking know. Unemployment rate here is super low. Riding in the good witch of the East. That's it. like her she seemed nice she was smiling glenda yeah glinda whatever

the fuck her name is glinda yeah there we go they'll know who i'm talking about right they know right everybody gets it we get it uh the unemployment rate here is three percent which is excessively low that That's ridiculous. Super low, lower than the national average. Median household income here is a little bit higher than the national average. Usually it's about $57,000. Here it's $65,528. It's a little bit up, but more people make under $30,000 here, too.

Really? Yeah, and then there's more people that make in like the 60 to 100 000 range so it kind of balances out yeah at about 65 lots of boutique owners i imagine yeah cost of living here too 100 is average regular par here it is 123 and most of that is housing yeah housing's a 168 of course and it's it's yeah housing is pricey median home cost home cost here, $389,000. Wow. So yeah, that's when they're saying it's squeezing out the lower. If you make $45,000 a year. You can't buy a house. No, a $400,000 house is out of the question.

So that's very difficult. You're going to end up with people who have to live in the outskirts and drive in or they'll live in two-bedroom apartments. If you don't have some source of large income, why the fuck are you in new england that shit is expensive anyway from there yeah that's the thing like i know people who are from new york and they're just they still live there and i'm like waiting on your parents to die so you can buy a house that's what i think it is it's either that or they're just like where do you go if you're just stuck there that's all you know you get a job and then you get another job and you just work and you get an apartment and you you know you do drywall and shit and that's i know tons of people like that oh my god it's depressing what a what a

struggle and then you put up with that shit winter for that's what i mean i've every time i go back there i have a hard time i meet with up with people and i'm like how do you live here i tell why do you do this i will hang out with people for 20 minutes and we'll be talking and it'll just be like any lull in the conversation i'll just just be like, how do you fucking seriously, dude? How do you fucking live here? And they're like, Jesus Christ. I don't know. It's, it's, I don't know.

It's all right. And you're like, no, dude, if you get out of here, you'll see it's not all right. It overwhelms people. They're like, really? Shit. What am I doing? Like they're freaked out by everything. I'm telling you, you're doing it all wrong, man.

Fucking it up. You have an inspection sticker on your car. Stop this. Stop it. That you bribed somebody. You didn't get it inspected. It's not it up. You have an inspection sticker on your car. Stop this. Yeah, stop it. That you bribed somebody. You didn't even get it inspected. That's not even legal. Yeah, just because you know a guy.

You know too many people. Leave. Can you go to the mall without seeing eight people you know? That's bad. That means you need to leave. Jesus Christ. Without seeing eight people that you don't even like anymore. It's not even that you just know them. You don't even enjoy them. I went to high school with that guy. Ah, there he is. Well, anyway was seeing eight people that you don't even like anymore. It's not even that you just know them. You don't even enjoy them.

I went to high school with that guy. Ah, there he is. Well, anyway, if this is for you, we've convinced you. We have for you. You want it? We have for you the Salem, Massachusetts Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here is about $1,620. Wow.

Which is a pricey. That's a pricey rental for a two-bedroom. Yeah. And then a two-bedroom, one bath. I found a house here. It's 1,040 square feet, and it's fucked up. It is. It's the only way to put it.

It's fucked up. There's vinyl siding ripped off in big spots with just exposed wood. It's bad. uh 174,900 bucks wow so i mean that's and that's as cheap as you're gonna get 80 grand for a piece of shit thousand square feet with vinyl ripped off with black stray cats oh it's bad yeah running back and forth two bedroom two bath i found 1060 square feet so it's kind of like the same house but livable okay put together and nice and there's nothing hanging off it or no missing pieces.

$349,900, though, if you're going to pay for that. So, yeah. Then I found one that, it's not even that great, man. Six bedroom, four bath, 2,681 square feet, but it's run down. It's kind of not wonderful. $799,000. Wow. So, it's not even that big. I mean, it's big, but not, yeah, it's 2 down. It's kind of not wonderful. It's big. $799,000. Wow. So it's not even that big.

I mean, it's big, but not. Yeah, it's 2,600 square feet. But I mean, it's not like it's normally 800,000. We're in the, you know. 5,000 square feet home range. 6,000 square feet. It's a big mansion. But I don't know.

Things to do here. Now, we have, I found the Haunted Happenings Grand Parade. Yeah. They're really going to embrace this shit a lot yeah it's uh the the uh salem chamber haunted happenings grand parade they do it in the beginning of october for some reason maybe for warmth also cold also because uh there's so much going on oh they probably just had to get a date that was free. They got bumped. It's in July. It's the 4th of July. Thanksgiving.

Halloween parade, everybody. Come on down. Jesus Christ. There's just so much they do in October. Yeah. The theme last year for the parade was, it's our future. And yeah, the excitement, the participation, and the incredible ideas of Salem's elementary school students were essential in keeping the tradition school ideas yeah so they're happy to begin a new feature

on the parade route a sensory friendly area uh which is uh no loud music and sirens and flashing lights and shit like that which is it's for autistic kids oh it's if your kid yeah oh i got it okay it's a yeah i was like that takes all the fun out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a fear. All the loud noises and cool flashing lights. When my son was young, that would have been, ah, gee, he would have wanted to be down there because otherwise he'd have just covered his ears.

Lost his mind. Yeah, by now he's okay, but back then he didn't like fireworks or anything like that. It would scare him, so not good. So yeah, the parade will finish last year with a party at the salem common with dj doug just got a name entertain the crowd sounds like somebody's dad yeah i'm i'm dj doug everybody how's it going i'm dj dad he was gonna say dad but he was like doug i'm doug doug who am i fool Yeah, thank you. So you know that was lame. Didn't even think of anything good.

It's just Doug. He's playing like Who Let the Dogs Out. He's like, come on, kids. What? This is good, right? Although DJ Lance from Yo Gabba Gabba, I'd hang out with that fucking guy. That's true. Yeah, yeah, that's different.

That guy's awesome. That's different. I don't think DJ Doug looks like DJ Lance. No. DJ Lance looks like a cool guy. This is like a blonde guy with Michael Chiklis hair before he shaved it. He's got commish hair, not shield hair. The sprigs?

Yeah. Not shield hair. Not I'm tough now hair. That poor fucking guy. Yeah. I'll never forget the day you showed me that. He just shaved his head and he's like, I'm tough. Look at me.

I put a leather jacket on. I shaved my head. I'm not a I'm tough. Look at me. I put a leather jacket on. I shaved my head. I'm not a fat bitch anymore. That's what he was. They don't make fun of my tits no more now. I'm a fat bitch. That's what people called him. Right.

But he's still a fat bitch. Yeah. And bitch, we don't mean woman at all. No. We mean Michael Chiklis. In a male sense of he's a- A phony tough guy. That's what I'm saying right there.

We've seen your hair michael yeah i remember that episode of seinfeld pathetic so my hair is still better yeah even when i grow oh yeah so much better your hair this is fucked up you're you are like johnny depp compared to a 1991 michael Chiklis. So now if he tried to not shave it, no hair would grow at all. It would be like alopecia. It's depressing. So crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here, property crime is just above average,

which happens when you get tourism and you get a lot of that. A lot of cars getting broken into and shit. A couple of local crackheads can drive up the crime rate a lot. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assaults. Don't forget that one. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about 10% low. So that's a little bit low. They're not killing each other so much in this town.

Not so much. Not so much. It's still close. Still close to the average. A little bit. Speaking of murder, guess who we have? Oh, boy. A murder. Yes. All right. Let's talk about it, of murder, guess who we have? Oh, boy. A murder.

Yes. All right. Let's talk about it, shall we? It's a crazy one, Jimmy. Let's do this. For this murder, we are going to have to go back in time a little bit. Not too far. About 29 years or so, we're going to go back.

We're going to go back to 1991. Got it. I don't know why. We end up with a lot of cases in 1991 for some reason. Have you noticed that? 91 was a rough year in this country. Everyone just killing each other in very interesting ways that are good for comedy fodder. It's a weird...

It's just strange that they all stand out. That's around the time that Lorena Bobbitt was whacking dicks. It was like 94. Yeah. I think maybe... I don't know. I know the media was focusing, but these aren't even media. Most of the cases I find aren't really that exposed.

Maybe it was a population boom. There was a lot of people, and a lot of people were convinced they could get away with murder. I guess. I mean- Today, you don't think you can get away with it, right? Not as much. Well, people now, there's like DNA, and then people are like, oh, shit, if I touch that forever, they'll be able to find it.

You've got a digital leash on you at all times. Yeah, that's the other thing. You have your phone, which is clocking you everywhere you go. So back then it wasn't. Back then you could just like, you could actually disappear in 1991 and nobody would know where you are. I'm sure that list of people from 91 that have disappeared and never been found is longer than a lot of other years. There's so many people out there, by the way, that you don't hear about that are murdered. It's not even.

There's so many people out there, by the way, that you don't hear about that are murdered. It's not even. It's so. I'm reading one case that we that I looked at for this week out of Massachusetts that decide decided not to do because it was too much. Really? It was it was too much. Just too much in the in the graphic. It was just too.

It was too much, man. It was there was kids involved. God, Jesus. And it was just too much. And I'm like, I don't know. This is that there was crazy stuff in it for for humor, but it just just wasn't the whole case was like that just it just i don't like it it's not our jam not our jam basically but it was so crazy to hear how one guy he had killed a ton of kids and uh i mean i don't know about weight wise but there's a lot of kids a lot of children and he would and he was telling people like, Oh,

this one from that state and this one from this state and this one, he would bring up names from all of these states all over. These were kids that were missing over the last 10 years that no one knew where they were. And they had all this guy had all got, it's just crazy to know about that. And you don't hear about any of this stuff. I mean, you only hear about select here, but John Bonet Ramsey,

you hear about all the other one. you hear the one that she's an adorable girl who the parents put her in fucking that's it yeah look at the pictures of her in her cowboy outfit why would you why would somebody murder this that's it whereas the kids are kids and they should all i don't know it's just crazy still a person god damn it let's talk about 1991 july 12 1991 yeah think about this okay one thing i love the northeast in the in like around that fourth of july time unless you don't get a heat wave where it's disgusting and humid it's fucking awesome yeah it's beautiful there's leaves on the trees if you're by the water there's like a breeze and it's crisp and it's nice it's where you want to be in the in the summertime so uh july

12th 91 in salem and this is in an area called salem willows uh it's a very particular area it's a close-knit neighborhood it's an oceanfront neighborhood so these are pretty affluent people that live here they've been there a minute they've been there a minute or they're some old money but just uh professionals and things like that it's a kind of an upper middle class it's not a not a real there's parts that are real wealthy, but it's not like it's not all million, two million dollar houses, but it's, you know, it's a nice neighborhood here. I understand

that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st.

Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. And also, there's an amusement park there and all that. In the neighborhood? Yeah, so the tourists come there by the water. There's one. Apparently, there's a bunch of European white willow trees planted there in 1801. Okay.

That's why it's called Salem Willows. They built it as a shaded walk for patients at a nearby smallpox hospital. Good Lord. Yeah. That's how most beautiful things in the Northeast were built for people with smallpox. Terminal people. It's so weird. Not terminal, but they would have the recovery centers and things like that like uh up in the

catskills there's a ton of like places that are smallpox retreats yeah bed and breakfast now that were big like uh for different diseases tuberculosis uh tb retreats and smallpox it's fucking weird man that's what they built them for. So this was kind of that sort of thing. And then it became a public park in 1858. Uh, when the, you know, whole thing died down a little bit and it became a big,

uh, destination for people who live in Boston in the summer to go to the amusement park and all that shit, you know, it became their kind of Coney Island. I guess you could call it. And, uh,

you know, it's a little cooler there too, away from the city, that sort of thing. A of restaurants seafoods yeah shit like that and it's not the cape so it's not near as expensive like the cape is crazy expensive yeah because that's just salem's just you're hitting everybody at the cape you're hitting european immigrants over there hammering you're hammering or hammering them hard for nine $9 for a can of beer. Getting them back for that Euro exchange rate. Take that. Take that, Sven. I paid $8 for a Coke in Sweden last year.

Eat dicks. I didn't because I've never been to Europe. Suck it, Locke. Someone did. Yeah, someone did. Listen, Lars, we're going to have a conversation, pal. Listen to me, Gunter. Me and you are going to fucking discuss this exchange rate problem that we're

having right now that's the lady right yes exactly there's a large german lady uh there's a amusement park called kiddy land that's still there and a few other rides that are there for kids it's basically for little kids there and uh the restaurants kind of closed down and it became less kind of uh boardwalk pierish after a while and uh they have an ice cream stand there and things like that arcades and batting cages you know all the usual horseshit uh small beaches around here also that are popular with the tourists and uh big for fourth of july fireworks so this is an area that is uh people walk around. It's happening.

They talk to each other. All the neighbors kind of know each other. And it's one of those kind of things. You can see what I'm getting at. But in this particular day, July 12, 1991, is a Friday. And it's a nice day. Brian Brailsford is a man we're going to talk about here since late 30s um he lives in this neighborhood he's a cruise a captain for a cruise company yeah um yeah they run between boston and

provincetown so it's that it's that kind of cruise people go out cape babe yeah it's a run people out to the cave exactly you're running out there in provincetown so you're running you're just having lots just fun parties of boats full of gay men partying yeah yeah yeah that's crazy he runs the party the party boat is what it sounds like like the whole front of the battle is just dick he's got to be a fun guy because he's like yeah okay let's do like let's go fellas you'd have to okay a group a group of of gay guys are going to party yeah the spirit in that would be impossible to not be swept up in. I don't mean the spirit of wanting to look for men, but I mean the spirit of having fun together.

Fun and party. You'd have to be made of stone to be not swept up in that. The lack of judgment in that is insanity. Yeah, they're partying. You're blown away. You're like, how are they all just doing this and not thinking ill of each other? It's because they're just having fun. Because they're having fun.

That's all they're interested in is fun. That's a hard not to get swept up in that. You're going to have fun. There's just a bunch of smiles. Dudes out there, I don't care if you're, don't be homophobic. Get over that shit. Jesus Christ, 2020. Hang out with some gay dudes.

Get some gay friends. Because they're pretty fucking fun. And if you're single, they will help you find women it's gonna happen and they're gonna be way better at it than you that's the thing and they'll be honest with you and they'll tell you your problem areas and how you can improve and be a better man that's the thing and take their fucking advice their advice because they're usually right they're gonna be right yeah and then they know how to talk to they go like vouch for you yeah with these women they tell you what they would be interested in if you would change this and then you take that

information and go find women with it. A gay guy vouch is the most golden thing that a straight man could have with a woman. If a gay guy goes up to a woman and is like, no, he's a good guy. I'm telling blah, blah, blah. She's going to be on that shit. She's on that shit. If he told her how to do her hair,

she'd do it like that too. Women will take gay men's advice on things like that. So you need to get some gay friends. If only not to just be selfish. Either way. You'll have fun too, on the other hand. If only Bill Cosby would have known that. He's going to slay so much more.

Jesus Christ. Well, if he wasn't a rapist and an asshole. A psychotic lunatic. If he didn't have a desire to make you feel bad as we talked about on crime and sports we discussed bill cosby and the fact that it had nothing to do with uh those people has nothing to do with him feeling good it's about you feeling bad not me feeling good that was michael jackson that was michael jackson bill cosby i think anybody same thing who's a domineering abuser.

Any sort of abuser who uses sex as a means of getting something that they want. It's not about making them feel good. It's about making you feel bad. That's right. That's what's important. That's the important part. Jimmy said I cracked the Da Vinci code with that one, but I think that one's pretty obvious. It's not a filling to Da Vinci code. Yeah, I think that's just psychologically obvious there.

So back to this story, though. So Brian, Brian Brailsford, he comes home from work here. He's a captain for the cruise ship company, Boston and Provincetown. It's Friday night. He comes home after dark to the Willow, the Willows area here. He gets home and he's looking for his wife his wife's name is martha she's 37 years old martha is a direct uh her she's a direct descendant of the founder of salem roger conant no kidding she's from that line her her maiden name is martha laurel conant got it so

yeah this is uh this you don't get much more and kind of ingrained in this area than someone who is a descendant of the person who founded the place so not too shabby here and he was given 200 acres so i assume that that's why her family probably still has land and things like that in that area uh she is an interior designer they seem to live a nice life here they have a nice house in a affluent little area close to the beach close to things like that interior designer and a fucking boat captain that's a cool couple what a family that's pretty cool i think a hot piece of ass martha well her name her name is martha so you know she is as we've discussed many many times before boy that martha's

a hot piece of ass so uh yeah this Martha though yeah she's nice woman uh talented lady uh everybody seems to enjoy Martha she likes very much into animals and shit like that nice woman uh so uh he gets home Brian gets home and he's expecting Martha to be there it's kind of the routine and he gets home and she's not there though he looks around the house and uh it doesn't look like she's been there for a while. It's like when you get home after dark and the lights are out, nobody just left. You know what I mean? If somebody just ran out, there would be a light on because it was dark, whereas it was not.

So also she had been doing, she does artwork. She'll take her artwork out into the yard and do it outside because it's beautiful out there. And so he noticed that her artwork hadn't been brought in from outside either, which is strange. It's still out there. Yeah. Usually he would he would bring she would bring that in. So he was like, oh, that's weird. But, you know, still, I mean, Martha, she has friends all over. Yeah.

Who knows if she went out and she went here. They're interrupted. She went because they have dogs, too. Who knows? She took a dog for a walk and ended up talking to somebody or ended up, you know, in a conversation

with the lady down the street who, who knows, you know? Nobody knows what's going on. There's a sale on chicken feet somewhere. Yeah. She got caught up. She's all caught up in this shit. So he waited.

He just waited for her. He's like, oh, she'll be home eventually. But then 1 a.m. comes around and she's still not home. Yeah. So now he starts to get worried, obviously.

He called the Salem Police Department and said, you know, my wife is missing here. She should be here, but she's not here. It's strange. The Salem police told him to stay home in case she came home or in case she called or something like that. Pre cell phones. So this isn't like, you know, did she text you? Have you texted her? This is if

someone's not home they're gone yeah that's it there's no you can't get a hold of them period yeah there's just no way to get a hold of a weird time it's crazy also what a great time it's crazy to think about now that'd be so amazing yeah exactly get away from it all but at the same time you'd be like i wonder what that let me look that oh shit it's okay i can't look that up okay i don't know anybody know where a library is like how do you you know like you just go crazy in 15 minutes what's nearby here to eat uber eats i can't find i don't i don't have it it doesn't unless i can call them physically on my landline i can't do that so that'd be tough what a great time that was though but yeah it would feel good for about a half hour until you wanted to do anything. Until you just fucking panic.

Yeah. You're like, I can't do anything. I can't do anything. I can't get a hold of anybody. Nobody can get a hold of me. It might be good, though. How did you all do this? First of all, we did it for a long time.

I don't know how we built to where we are. Oh, I don't know either. It's bananas. It really is. Just think about direction. People used to give you directions. Yeah. Remember that? Yeah. built to where we are oh i don't know it's bananas it really is just to think about direct people used to give you directions yeah remember that yeah you would drive to another state and just have a list of directions right make a left here yeah what the fuck well that was when goddamn map

quest came out i'm talking before that when people would be like people had a map out and they'd like draw the map out right out right you gotta pull over oh i gotta get out on the hood and sprawl that shit out i need to make go east on i-73 okay like and then coordinate that shit on a rand mcnally somewhere and fold it back up and try to try to wedge that back in your fucking glove box enjoy so he says that he can't uh he can't stay put he's he just he's he feels like she's probably out there somewhere she's maybe she could have fell down and hurt herself maybe she slipped and broke her leg and fell in a bush or something so you know he's worried he decides to get his flashlight and go out and look around for and uh he says he's he tells everybody that at at dawn he did that again he did another flashlight tour so this is what he's telling the police right now okay which in our world i'm suspicious

just basically based on our even like uh the uh bar oklahoma episode a couple weeks ago it's the same type of opening yeah you know i might go a little further than just a a flashlight scan around my property yeah well he called the police that's a good thing but he went around and then two flashlight scans he said here but the police didn't come out apparently they were going to look for but she's an adult so she's only missing But he went around and there was two flashlight scans, he said, here. But the police didn't come out? Apparently, they were going to look for her, but she's an adult, so she's only missing for a few hours, and there's no blood or anything. There's no signs of foul play. They just kind of go, hey, if anybody runs into Martha, tell her her husband's looking

for her, rather than APB, everybody look for Martha. It's more of those type of things. They say, hey, stay put. I'm sure she'll call. I mean, she's a grown i hate this that's what i mean it feels like there's but what's the other solution it's a free country adults can do what they want that's the thing yeah i get angry sometimes i get angry when i see like the silver alerts on the freeway and you're like a silver now a lot of times it is an old person that wandered away and is confused right but what if grandpa just wanted to blow off some steam for the weekend?

And you're going to have the state police kicking in his motel room door? Well, he's getting a blow from some sweet girl who he had a $20 exchange with. He's like, hey, guys. He decided he wanted to go to the casino and be young again. And you're going to give him a heart attack as the SWAT team busts through the door looking for him. During his checkup. Your daughter's looking for you. I'm not looking for her right now.

I'm good. Tell that bitch I'm fine. That's how I feel every time. I know it's confused old people a lot of times. Dr. McCarthy gave me a nice sample pack of these little blue pills. Tell her I'm doing great. This is great. I'm going to be here all fucking

weekend i might take off every weekend i don't know check out the bunny ranch next so i mean grandpa might have been looking for some strange so no he he's trying to figure out brian's trying to figure out what to do here it's morning time he hasn't slept all night he's been waiting for martha he to figure out what to do here it's morning time he hasn't slept all night he's been waiting for martha he doesn't know what to do so he in the morning he says okay he's really racking his brain where could she be so he's trying to figure out anybody she may have talked to recently maybe they said she said something to them or they saw anything or whatever so he recalls that sometimes she takes early morning walks

with a neighbor, a man named Thomas Maimone. Now Maimone, I have to describe him physically to you. He looks like Jeffrey Tambor in Larry Sanders. So he looks like Hank Kingsley. Oh, Jesus.

He looks exactly like him. I'm talking exactly. He's six foot three, bald on top, brown hair, ring of... Not Jeffrey Tambor now, where he's thin and gray and shaved head. I'm talking bald around the sides with a big brown push broom mustache. That's what he looks like. Okay? Like if you mix Hank Kingsley and Steve Balboni.

It's a very specific reference but work the google box work it so but hank kingsley definitely 90s jeffrey tambor is what he looks like so you know he's not exactly an attractive playboy of a man uh but so what time is it this that he's doing this 7 a.m he realizes jesus right overnight he's already begun the whole investigation process yeah he's trying to figure it out so it's finally day break it's a it's a respectable because you can't go bang on your neighbor's doors at 3 a.m because what if she did just go out for a while or something you look like a psychopath yeah so 7 a.m though is he knows when people are awake and he knows that they walk the dogs because he has a little dog too and they've walked the

dogs uh early in the morning so this guy you know maybe she said something to him so he goes over uh he goes over to uh to this man's house brian goes over to thomas's house over to hank kingsley's house and uh because he remembers he said they met a few months ago and it's not like this is a relationship that martha has hid from him. He knows about that. Oh, yeah, I talked to this man, and he does this and that. He's hideous. Go on, Ron.

Yeah, he's Hank Kingsley. Don't worry about it. Have you seen Larry Sanders? It's just like that. Clearly I'm not fucking him. Because it just started then, too, the Larry Sanders show. It's like he was like, ooh, that tambour. Now that's the look I need to cultivate.

It says hey now a lot. It's weird. That's sexy. This guy, Brian knocks on his door he opens it hey now hey now hey now so anyway uh may uh may moni works for parker brothers game company oh as an engineer which sounds fucking awesome kind of kind of cool i mean what kind of engineer though well i don't know what do you got an engineer, which sounds fucking awesome. Kind of? Kind of cool. I mean, what kind of engineer, though? I don't know.

What do you got to engineer? The layout of the games, maybe? But I mean, you wouldn't, I guess, be like, you wouldn't say, they wouldn't look to you and go, hey, does this look fun? That's not your, you're not like Tom Hanks in Big. It was like, you know, playing with the toys, probably. You're probably more figuring out logistically how to fold them and fit them into the box properly.

The pieces for Sorry. What if I make a Hershey's Kiss real tall and put a little nipple on it? What do you think? I feel like him, an engineer, would probably be like, the game board folds three times so it fits into the box like this, and then this has a thing where the piece is cut so then it flips. I'm not sure, but he works for Parker, which is better than working for you know some

boring you know it's better than any he's got candy land yeah it's better than working in like an accounting office i assume parker brothers is probably a loose place to work they probably have games hanging around we got connect for money you know what i mean he's got connect for money it's got that sort of thing i feel like it's like a fun yeah it's like a fun environment you know fucking shoots and ladders yeah there's probably shoots and ladders to get into different offices there's probably a floor that's just shoots and ladders this is the eighth floor candy land get on off and you just you get off and you have no idea if these are real parker brothers i don't know if they're parker think of me anything it doesn't matter it's still fun i just love the whole building yeah a board game

it's like donkey k building. A board game. It's like Donkey Kong walkthrough board game. Like codes to get into doors. You got to push like draw two and uno cards. That'd be great. That'd be great. See, I want to work here. This sounds like fun. This sounds fun.

So he works there. So Brian goes to his apartment. Thomas lives in a nice apartment nearby. It's like a condo. And no one's home. He knocks on his door. Brian's not there. And he knows Brian walks the dogs and shit in the morning.

So that's not abnormal that people wouldn't be home at 7 a.m. So he then goes to, Brian heads down to the Palmer's Cove Yacht Club. Because he goes looking for Thomas. Maybe he knows, so Thomas has a boat down there. So he says, oh, maybe he's down at his boat. It's a 28-foot sailboat called Counterpoint. That's the name of it there. So this is how these people are living.

A board game engineer is crushing life. Twy lives in a nice beach community. He's got a 30-foot sailboat. And a 28-foot sailboat and a and a 28 foot sailboat unbelievable named counterpoint what a life yeah doesn't that sound great oh he's gonna sail out to nantucket or something what a hell kind of life are we we're screwing up jimmy we are really we're dummies this is stupid i should have been real dummies should have been a board game engineer for parker brothers i did a sale out there around that area, and that is fucking majestic, James, on a sailboat

out there. It's amazing. It's incredible. It's beautiful out there. It was probably a 40-foot boat that I was... It was probably that goddamn boat. It probably was. I don't know. It was probably sold and sold again.

It's amazing. Let me ask you. Who was the captain? Did he look like Hank Kingsley? Did he say, hey now, everybody aboard? I'm going to be honest with you it was about 12 different gay men

with us and it was amazing but you had fun it was the greatest time there you go see fun fucking incredible fun

so much fun we brought tomatoes with us as like snacks we brought like little tomatoes and cheese not like a hand fruit

not like an apple Emily's mom grew it I don't know so we made like a bottle of wine and cheese and tomatoes and crackers and shit and we shared them with these gay men and they insisted on making a video for emily's mother and they like all got together in a crowd with like their wine glasses and they're like thank you okay now i believed your story up until that

point now did you just say that gay men like to perform? That I don't believe. I will not believe that gay men insist. They choreographed a goddamn video. See, now I know you're not telling the truth. I know that can't be true. It was bananas. Gay men do not choreograph. Thank you, Maria. Your tomatoes were delicious.

It's the first time you've ever. And you had fun. Yeah. See? Complimented a woman. That's what I mean. We're right. Fun.

It's the best. Damn it. It was great. Fun. So Brian is looking for him. He's not down on Counterpoint. So Brian goes back, walks around a little bit, heads back to Thomas' apartment at 8 a.m. So he gives him an hour, goes back, knocks on the door.

This time, Brian's there. Yeah. And he opens up the door. Hey, now. Yeah. Use it in a sentence. Hey, now. I love that.

How are you? Use it in a sentence, now uh i love that how are you use it in a sentence hank uh hey now uh there's some nice telling him no that's not how it's what that's great if you do have never seen the larry sanders show not to give hbo another credit but jesus christ that's the most amazing show ever it's so good comedy wise it's so's so good. Comedy-wise, it's so amazing. Holy shit. So way ahead of its time. So Brian introduces himself to Thomas as Martha's husband. Hi, I'm Brian.

Martha's, you know, Martha. And, you know, I can't find Martha. Martha's missing. Do you know anything? Thomas says, Brian says Thomas looked at him like he was unsure who Brian was talking about. Like, you know, like squintinging like, hmm, do I know? How many fucking Marthas do you know, bro? One of those things.

And then he said that. And then Brian was like, you guys, didn't you walk yesterday morning? You know, the broad you walked with yesterday morning. That's my wife. All right. Missing. Oh, Martha. That's the one.

Yeah. So that kind of clicked it in for him and he said oh yeah i know i know martha but uh yeah no i i did walk with her yesterday because martha told brian walked with that thomas guy this morning they have a good relationship and everything so uh uh he thomas says that yes we did walk but at the end of the walk she took off and had uh walked on with some other friends she saw some friends and she went with that group and he went back to his apartment and that was that's the last time she saw him i don't know so brian asked whether martha had sailed with him yesterday at all

and uh he said no not at all uh they didn't sail on friday uh that day at all and he said i wouldn't ask martha to sail alone with me uh but if you guys want to come together anytime, he goes, if you want to go with, you know, obviously, I'm not going to say, hey, come on my boat with me alone. Like, I'm not a weirdo. But if you want to go with her sometime, there's an open invitation for you guys. But no, she didn't sail with me, which just all seems very normal. And this seems, you know, she didn't go sailing with me. But if you'd ever like to come on the boat, you're welcome to whatever.

So he said, you know, brian you guys can come and he said at this point thomas said i might even bring a girlfriend of my own on there we'll you know make it a double date or something we'll have a we'll have a good time is what he said so brian said oh that sounds great but i gotta like find my wife first so also i'm a boat captain my boat's bigger and faster you know so i don't really need your boat but thanks thanks my boat's full of gay men is your boat full of gay men your boat's nowhere near as fun as mine so take a hike get yourself 20 30 gay guys and get back to me otherwise i'm not interested 38 foot boat is masculine yeah 28 feet oh that's cute that's great adorable you see all the cock on my butt

way more than you're ever gonna have so masculine vote on the sea it is so he uh yeah so he says she's missing though but that's it so brian uh thomas says well i don't know i'll pray for her wait what okay thanks yeah i guess yeah i'll pray for martha peace be with you there's a lot of catholics yeah thanks a lot okay so uh at this point, the police are now involved by the morning. A detective, a Conrad, Detective Conrad, wow, Prosniewski, we'll call him, Prosniewski. Prosniewski, he interviews Thomas later on that morning because Brian says, they say, who was she talked to? And he says, well, this woman and that guy and this guy and blah, blah, blah.

And this guy had some weird shit to say. Yeah, Hank Kingsley is involved in this shit as well. She saw this was going over. Who do you know that she contacted yesterday? And he goes over the whole list. So they're going to want to talk to Thomas about this. Now, it's at this point. Martha had told her husband, because this is what she was told by Thomas, that she walked with him because she felt bad for him because his wife died of cancer.

Oh, Jesus. So he's a widow. Yeah. And he's like, you know, he's just kind of a sad guy. He's this bald guy with a mustache. And he's, you know, just kind of a sad dude who lost his wife and trying to get his life together. So she kind of is like, oh, you know, it's going to be okay for you and oh what about her down there maybe you know you could ask her out or she's trying to help him with stuff like that that's that's the the general deal of what's working

i sure seems to think he's a playboy i'll bring a girlfriend of my own i'll bring a girlfriend of my own that's the thing here so it's it's very interesting that that that was go go on but uh when they talk to him he says says, no, I haven't. The police talked to Thomas and Thomas says, I haven't seen Martha since 7 a.m. yesterday. And I didn't sail with her. I definitely wouldn't sail with her alone because, you know, I'm a married man. That wouldn't look good. So it's like, by the way, yeah, he's not a widow and he doesn't have a girlfriend.

He's he's he is a liar, though. We'll talk about that more on that in a minute all right more on that at 10 o'clock here back it's fucking crazy okay what's his pussy sitch i want to know so eventually yeah they find out from from people that were around and eventually from thomas they kind of triangulate some time periods here and they figure out that martha ended up she was on the counterpoint boat on friday she boarded around 1 p.m on willow's pier yeah okay that's that's uh what they do find out so uh that that the the by the time uh the 15th or the next weekend comes around uh or that weekend, Thomas goes away to Rhode Island after he talks to the police. He jumps on the boat?

With his wife. No, with his wife, he goes to Rhode Island. There's the pussy sitch. And another couple friends. We'll talk about that. Or, I'm sorry, his wife's not there at this point. His wife's out of town, but not there. Okay.

So he goes to Rhode Island for the weekend. He comes back. Monday, July 15th, the detective gets in touch with him and he meets with him that night uh right away they give him a miranda warning up front because they're asking him basically he's considered a suspect so or at least a person of interest at this point in the whole investigation to see her alive and your story doesn't fucking out you're getting miranda warning now otherwise if you started talking and anything turned toward he's a suspect you'd have to stop and mirandize him then which kind of screws up the whole flow so you want to get it out of the

way early so they mirandize him and uh the detective said look thomas if you want to tell me that martha didn't get on your boat at willow's pier he says just walk out now because i don't believe you so you can you can walk out and when we get the evidence, I'll come arrest you. He goes, but I know she got on your boat. People saw her get on your boat yesterday. So that's a fact. So if you're going to lie, I don't want to hear it from you. Don't even want to hear it.

But if you want to tell the truth and have a talk with me and be honest with me, sit down and I'm happy to, I'm all ears basically, which is an interesting approach to an interrogation. Good start though. Yeah, but Thomas, which is an interesting approach to an interrogation. But start.

Yeah. But Thomas, it might it might be the way to go because Thomas takes a little pause here and kind of thinks about it for a moment and then says she was supposed to bring her husband. Yeah, that's that's that's the response to it. Weird. So now they're like, OK, so he has admitted that she was on the boat. She's supposed to bring her husband. Interesting. Like, okay, so he has admitted that she was on the boat.

She's supposed to bring her husband. Interesting. He says that Martha was supposed to meet him on the boat at 1 p.m. at Willow's Pier because he said that Martha has been helping him in other areas as well. He says that he needs a new resume, and Martha was helping him work on his resume. So Martha was supposed to meet him on the boat at 1 p.m. with her husband to help him with his resume. That makes sense. That's the thing here. He said he brought the boat from Palmer's Cove over to Willow's Pier, but it was crowded and he couldn't tie up. So he said he just had Martha jump aboard because she was she couldn't tie up and do an official.

So she just, hey, come on up. And he helped her aboard. And that was that. She's just going to help with the resume. No big deal. He said he motored a short distance to a landing at Winter Island, which is kind of part of the Willows area, where she went ashore at one other place, which was on her regular walking route. So he says she was just on the boat for a few minutes. They motored over to here, and he dropped her off, and then she continued walking.

My resume, tip top. Get off this this boat have a good one thanks good advice so i should say i need a i need a mission statement okay thank you get off the boat cover letter oh good cover cover so cover letter or no because there's people it goes both ways oh if i'm faxing i should probably you're right i quote thomas jefferson is that bad good bad what do you think what's his what's his historical relevance? Keep it off page one. Okay, I got you. Understood. It's fine. He said she jumped off and kept walking, and that was that.

She said that he went on. Thomas did. He went on and moored over by the yacht club, and he said he was at the club until about 6 p.m., and then he went home. Jesus. That's his story. What a day for him that's a great day my god it's a friday oh what a wonderful friday got up the cops just sitting there open mouth going uh what a life jesus i ate arby's yesterday

you know how gross that is that's what we all had we all had it everybody in the office had it for lunch yesterday what were you doing curly fries were great but the sandwich, lacking. I mean, come on. You're out there just sailing, picking women up, dropping them off. You know you had fish tacos. Right out of the actually probably like raw oysters and clams. I'm sure it was. And the ones from the northeast

are briny too. Oh, you bastard. You son of a bitch. Living life. You briny bastard. I had to earn a living. You spent a living. I'm eating Arby's. Son of a bitch live in life you briny bastard earn a living you spent a living i'm eating arby's beef and shutters yeah oh you should have said it was awful this morning awful goddamn nightmare fucking i need a doctor yeah i i just crime scene tape the bathroom it was that bad so he though has had a quite the day He went to the yacht club, hung out until 6 o'clock, and went home. So that sounds wonderful.

So the police locate the harbor master. They talk to him. They try to find people who had been at the Winter Island landing about the time when he would have done that, when he would have landed there. One man they talk to is a guy named Dr. Ronald Plotka. He's a dentist who, as it happens, has been Martha's dentist for 10 years. This is why a small town murder is interesting. If this was in New York City,

you wouldn't run into your dentist somewhere on the island. Oh, yes, no, that happens to be my patient for 10 years. This is all very small town, and especially this little area of Willows. It's kind of like Brentwood with OJ. Everybody knew each other and all that kind of shit it's a it's a weird place so plotka said he had been at the landing from noon to 2 p.m well never saw martha there not once never saw her so i think i'd have noticed if martha pulled up on a boat and jumped off onto the shore i'd have said hello recognize those bicuspids anyway. Incisors are fabulous.

They're fabulous. They're beyond reproach. So at this point, the Salem police notify the state police and say, we're going to need more manpower here, which is good. At least, like we said, the mayor's not traipsing around a crime scene or some crazy shit like that. The game warden didn't come in to kick the tires around and take a look at it. I don't give a shit if the game warden, quote unquote, has more jurisdiction.

Don't care. It's fucking weird. He doesn't know how to investigate a human homicide. He just doesn't. I'm sorry. You know who does? Homicide detectives. When Rocky and Bullwinkle are murdered, we'll holler at him.

When there's dead people, I want no one but homicide detectives. Everyone else, secure the scene and then bring people who know what they're doing in to look it over. Bring in 10 Mark Helgenbergers. That's who I want. That's perfect. So, Jesus Christ. So, this detective invites Thomas to come in for another interview here. This time, Thomas arrives at the station accompanied by his father-in-law, Charles Stockel.

Stockel? Wow, that's a S-T-O-C-H-L. That's a tough one. Wow. Stockel? Stockel? Stockel? Oh, I'll bet that's a s-t-o-c-h-l it's a tough one well skull stokel stokel oh that's oh i'll bet that's it i think it's stokel i'll bet it's stokel that's a good one jimmy name yeah charles stokel no no one's ever pronounced it correctly what are you stop stop stotchel stachel stock which letter is silent stokel okay great so uh the state trooper here uh mark lynch he is here as well uh thomas repeats his story same shit he said before uh then stokel leaves the room and uh when because they think that maybe he's talking less openly in front of his father-in-law as you might imagine if there's

another woman judging yeah because they're thinking they don't know they're like look if he was oh if he was trying if he's trying to bang martha he's not going to tell us in front of his father-in-law i was trying to bang martha it's bad enough for him to tell us that he's not going to tell us this man's daughter exactly so he leaves the room and the officers then mention the dentist they mentioned dr plotka and they tell uh they tell thomas flatly they just tell him i don't believe you uh the dentist was there he didn't see her get off no one else saw that at all basically what you're saying is all the people tons of people saw her get on your boat at that time nobody saw this you know dismount that you've told us about here we don't know shit so uh you know what do you say to that

anything and he goes well sure here. Here's what I got. He's got a story. He always has a story, Thomas. He said that he had sailed with Martha. Okay, I messed up the first time. We didn't just do a loop. I forget things, you know? It's easy to forget with my sailing, wheeling, dealing kind of life.

You know what I mean? It's very... Friday was busy. Listen. Do you know how many player... Do you know how many of those boggle dice things i had to make you press it and that's they're hard they're hard yeah you know sometimes they don't pop up and then the dice don't go kids complain it's a real conundrum how big the the cup should be for yahtzee it's a tough one

we went with six ounces we wanted it's all right it's got to be big enough for the dice to shuffle around, but not so big that they're lost in there. And then it's weird. So it feels like, am I missing dice? There's supposed to be more dice. It feels like there should. Got to give enough for them to mix around. The balance. Six ounces is what we found.

So in addition to his Yahtzee findings, he also said thattha as far out as far out as gloucester gloucester and uh at that point it was approaching sunset so uh he started for the trip back to salem yeah he said uh you know it's getting dark let's head back they just kind of went out and came back he said uh you know he he got everything going he depowered the motor as they were coming in and he was bringing in the main sail. He was bringing down the main sail, I guess. I know nothing about sailing, but it makes sense. Power down the motor, put up the sail.

That makes sense to me. Put it up or bring it down? Bring it down, which I think means put it up. So he's putting the boat away. Yeah, exactly. Put up, that means put away, I guess. So yeah, he's getting ready to come into the harbor here. So he said that the head sail became messed up, is what he said.

So Martha was trying to help. Martha's very experienced on boats. Sure. Her husband's a fucking captain. That's what I mean. Plus, she's from this area. Her family- They found it.

They sailed over here. And she is all about boats and water. She's a strong swimmer swims in the ocean you know she knows her shit out here uh so martha jumps in tries to help he says he says at that point a rogue wave struck the boat it was a calm rogue wave came i don't know what happened here what carnival cruise ship caused this out but see but moby dick just a rogue wave uh hit the boat yeah and he said at that point her face hit the mast oh no her face banged into the mast and she grabbed for the head sail and slipped and went overboard right oh my god so the kraken got her well yeah well

not only that i was gonna say then she kurt russell ended up adopting her and then the story goes in a completely different direction so she goes overboard her husband says yes and then a local a local lout with his children pick her up by the way that movie the greatest line delivery in maybe comedy history yeah is when when Kurt Russell is telling Goldie Hawn, I bet you don't even remember the kids names. And she focuses like if she squints and looks at it real hard, the names will come and she looks at one and she goes, Roy.

How is that the name? Not the kids name. How do you reach for that one? Roy. And she says it like, yes. Right? And all the boys look at you go yeah it's not me mom it's roy later on when he's cutting up a lot of reference movie references today that's a good one though that's a great goddamn movie it is a great movie it's all about uh how to write somebody well kurt russell i guess several months second week in a row i'm gonna bring it in but we we did that movie on ps i hate this movie me and sarah

that on the podcast there and uh i have a running list of kurt's of kurt russell's felonies that i every time he has one i have a law and order sound effects and i go it's another kurt russell and i'll read like the law of what what law he's breaking now. Kurt Russell should have been life without parole for that whole movie. So anyway. And instead she marries him and then says, a little girl. Happily ever after. Give me a little girl, we'll be fine. A little girl.

It's all good with your miniature golf course. Right me again. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky and part comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal,

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where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form

an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by

Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car

to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener.

Follow the Generation Y podcast on the the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to generation y ad free right now by joining wondery plus so she grabbed for the head sale and went overboard um he says at this point somehow her bag fell overboard too at the same time her purse her and all of her shit you know women don't like going places without their purse so if you're falling overboard oh no my purse i don't know but that's that's his story i you know we're not making fun of her but this is you know his bullshit story this sounds i'm calling bullshit now we don't know yet if it's bullshit but uh so she says that the bag fell over too now to his friends uh he told

them that he had thrown her the bag and hoped she would catch it so okay he says she fell overboard after being hit in the head and he was like here's your purse how does that help what is this a doonie does this float i'm not gonna stop or do anything but here's your purse for when you get back to shore enjoy your swim the whole kind of story is that tracing you on this boat and hope she would catch it what a ridiculous thing she fell overboard yeah she's not gonna catch her purse no no i said a life give me a vest i don't need my carmex right now thank you can you put it away put the purse back on the boat you didn't think to throw her one of those ring things no no not

a life jacket of her purse oh that foam ring thing that hangs on every goddamn boat yeah so he said that she he was trying to spot her and she went dipped below the water. And, uh, he said that she was just in, in, in complete distress. And he says that he didn't know what to do. And so he froze. He was just frozen. He didn't know.

He watched her. She didn't come back up. Yeah. So he's like, Oh no. So he said he froze and didn't call the coast guard. No, he said he couldn't do it.

He was just frozen. He just sailed back in frozen. Okay. Well, there's that shit. All right. I don't know. I gotta get out of here. Okay. Well, there's that shit. All right. I don't know. I got to get out of here.

He said, though, he did at that point found a got a got a map and marked on the chart for the police the place where she'd fallen off the boat. He goes, she fell off here. You might want to look there. But I just kept sailing. I was at a cinder block. Her purse should be nearby as well. If you run into that.

Jesus Christ. You know, I only had two things to throw her. Dude, this guy's an asshole. Either her purse or my anchor. So I chose the lightest. I chose the purse. This guy's an asshole, man. I feel bad for this poor Martha.

We don't even know what happened to Martha yet. And I already feel bad for her just that she ever had to walk the dog with this asshole. Unbelievable. This lying shithead. So this was about nine miles from children's island which is out there and it's that's a long swim it's a long swim yeah so uh he said i'll take you to the spot i'll take you to where it is my bad fucked up some you know panic don't know what to tell you but it wasn't my fault i'll take you to the spot well it's all good we'll make it better

clean it up clean it all up everything's gonna be fine he says i'm sorry i didn't tell the story earlier i i'd regret it he goes but my wife patricia she was in kansas visiting her mother at the time when this was all going on and she was gone for a week and boy we'll tell you all about his week it's boy uh he said that i didn't want my wife to find out i had a woman on board alone because she would be mad right i would think she'd be more concerned about somebody died on your boat i would think she'd be more concerned about somebody died on your boat and i think she'd be more worried that you murdered somebody rather than you had sex with them yeah it's a different deal so he says so you know i'll take you out there the police think he's lying yeah so they don't even go out and look they think he's

lying they're like this is not going to be where there's no body out there there's nothing he's full of shit they don't buy anything he's saying. Because every time he tells a story, he's got different details. And then he told other people different things. He's got 18 stories. So now we go to the Thursday morning of that week. And there's a guy named William Hooper Goodwin, who's a lobsterman. He's lobstering out there. And he's bringing up his lobster trap early on a Thursday morning, looking for his goods.

This is near the southeast end of children's island and as the last trap in one of the lines comes to the surface he sees goodwin sees an anchor tangled in the trap he's like god fucking damn it as a lobster fisherman this is a pain in the ass somebody cut their anchor now i'm caught in it great now it's fucking up my trap so he's super pissed off and uh he trailing from the anchor he found a 12 foot rope tied by knots and he's like god damn it what is this he keeps pulling uh it is tied to the ankle of a body he did throw the anchor uh of a of a body of a naked body uh so scavenged that it was because it's at the bottom of the water so there's tons of crabs sharks there's crabs it's at the bottom of the water so there's tons of crabs sharks there's crabs it's all the mobsters yeah everything anything down there with claws and

lives and shells is going to be down there eating it so uh it was basically almost a skeletal at this point um so uh what he finds is a buckled diver's weight belt weight belt with a buckle that is buckled around uh the figure of the around this person between the pelvic bones and the rib cage it was around their waist like they would be like a diver's somebody was diving uh there uh so he pulled this in obviously calls the coast guard they take it in they find out this is martha yeah so that's where martha is she was out there and it was off of children's island uh so uh now at this point uh they hear uh thomas is with his wife uh who had flown in from home from kansas and they were with friends of theirs the mccarthy's are their last name okay there were two couples hanging out it's at that point they heard the news that the body had been found.

Right. They heard the news report. Thomas goes white and Patricia is pissed. Well, Thomas just gets up and says, I need to go see my lawyer and drives off by himself. Wow. Takes off, which is not the reaction you want from your dinner party guest. There's a body. I got to see my lawyer.

What the fuck just happened you'd wait for you'd wait for that dude to get outside and you go he killed somebody right that's did we just should we lock behind him no we don't want him back in right lock it yeah kids get the lock he's it's a bad man right i was right down his license plate number two as a player at it so uh martha the when they find martha now martha uh she was examined by dr plotka his dental records are going to come up big and a skeletal remains you know capacity so she had seen dr plotka three months before the exam and she had perfect teeth as he put it perfect he had worked had worked on them. Her teeth were perfect. And a postmortem examination shows a chip on the inside surface of a lower left molar, something that you would notice.

It's not something that could have happened while she was eating and she didn't notice it. It's something she would have noticed and would have went to the dentist for because she was very up on her dental care. She was like super into her teeth. Also, a loosened lower left front tooth tooth which definitely wasn't like that before so dr plock uh and other later on when they have forensic dentists look at this they say that the fracture of the molar was caused by force uh from a blow below the jaw and the loosening of the front teeth is a force from a direct blow to the chin. Damn it. So these are two separate blows, they're saying here, which is not hitting the head by a mask.

Right. So the head, top and front of the head, had suffered three impacts. So that's one, two, three, four, five so far that we found here. Most serious on the top of the forehead was bleeding under the scalp, was probably inflicted, they said, shortly before death. The other two injuries involved a little amount of force, not a ton of force. The third one was the big one, and that was the close to death one. None of the three could have caused death, but each would be felt and could have dazed

you, and especially if you were then dazed and then knocked into water to fight with ocean currents. That'll rock you. That'll rock you a little bit yeah uh there was uh uh also the uh they they determined that she died of drowning i don't know how you determine that from the skeleton but they figured it out somehow i don't know i'm not a doctor maybe if i went to medical school i could figure this shit out a little easier uh yeah i don't know so uh who the fuck is Thomas? I'd like to know. Let's see what Thomas has been up to. Well, Patricia is his fourth wife. Okay.

Okay, which is fine on its own, but Patricia thought she was his second wife. Oh, no. Which is not fine on its own. No, it's not. He is just a liar, liar, liar. This guy lives and lives to lie. He loves it. He loves it.

It's his favor to create his own fantasy. And oh, by the way, none of his wives died. No. None of them died of cancer. These are just stories because he told her that she's his second wife and his first wife died of cancer. Wow. And he told everybody. And she's his fourth and three are still alive.

They're all alive. None of them died of cancer. So just lying a lot. The other, they're all alive. None of them died of cancer. So just lying a lot. Also, when they look into him a little bit, he admits to having repeatedly falsified his resumes, applying for jobs, falsely claiming educational diplomas and shit that he didn't have, other credentials, accreditations and programs that he took that he never took, things like that, work experience he didn't have, just fabricated shit on his resume. They said he had a spotty employment record, and in July 1991, he had just been laid off by the Parker Brothers Corporation. So he wasn't even doing that. It's over.

He actually was unemployed at that time. Wow. He didn't tell people that, but he was telling people he was an engineer, but he was not. He was not. No. Now, earlier that week, his wife had been in kansas okay like we said away so he apparently took this week as i'm going to try to get as many women on my boat and fuck them as i possibly can right that's what he spent

the week doing all week uh july 8th he was with a woman named roxy platt okay platt met her met him met or met him and he uh he told her his wife had died of cancer which is what he told martha too dead wife cancer so he invited platt to go sailing on his boat he makes women feel bad for him and all the women say he comes across as very harmless because he's not uh he doesn't he's he's a tall guy but he's not real imposing he's bald he's kind of you know he's soft around the face and things like that where he doesn't look like a guy who is like a brute or something like that he seems like oh he's a white collar guy with a little you know soft guy with bald head and all this he's he's fine he's harmless you know just he's a poor guy his wife died that's how he approaches everybody so nobody's really scared to to be with him that's a weird way of trying to get pussy it's

a really weird it's disturbed like yeah that's way more disturbed than anything making up shit that's good about you is is less disturbing yeah than saying my wife died of cancer right that's creepy how how how not confident in yourself are you that you have to go to that one that's what i mean the the like i realize that there's no way i can even lie to you or make it make you make you laugh or smile or feel good about yourself i can't make you feel good about yourself so much that i'll make you feel horrible for me that's that's what i mean well it's so shitty too because not only not he doesn't just say i'm not married i'm a single guy and try to get laid and have everything be on the on the square right you know what i'm saying he actually field set he actually uses his own wife to try to

get laid by making up that she's dead that is way more offensive yeah to the woman not even just dead because like you'd feel bad for somebody that like their spouse died in like a car accident or some freak cancer cancer like i watched her with her i clearly watched it it was terrible it would cheer me up a blowy that's what i mean come out on this boat come out i'm gonna impress you that's what i mean make you feel like shit for me that's what i'm saying that's so much so that i'm gonna try and get my cock in you that's that's an issue bananas dude that's what i'm saying that's the that's the type of dude we're dealing with here like gross can't even just do is your wife's out of town just tell people if you want to be gross just be like i'm a single dude with a boat right what's up that's not even

good enough for this guy is that enough to get my cock in your mouth? No? No. Next. Okay. I can get free Candyland. Huh? Christmas edition. Yeah. Hey. So. I'm developing a brand new game. Yeah.

You want to see how it goes? Come on out on my boat. Let's do it. Roll those dice. This is called Snakes and Snakes. Guess what? It's always a snake. It's always a snake.

Put it in your mouth. This one's called Snakes, Bananas. Eggplants. And everything phallic. And salami. Yes. Would you like to play? This game's called Suck My Phallic Object.

Let's go. So, yes, he's playing that with this one woman especially here now jesus christ poor roxy here uh she said she went out uh january or july 8th in the course of the sailing she went out she felt bad for him was gonna go hang out with him she said he suddenly out of nowhere became quote very sexually very sexual yeah and started describing sexual encounters that he had had with other women on the boat. Oh, God. That was his way of...

You mean right where I'm sitting? Yeah, being like, eh, that's pretty hot, right? What about over here? Is this area clean? Can I sit here? I didn't even bleach it. Oh, my God. Yeah, so it's at that point

where she was kind of like, okay, like was kind of turned off by the whole thing. And then he really decided to put a cherry on top. He dropped his bathing trunks and sailed in the nude for the rest of the time with an erect penis. He's like George Washington. Foot up on the bow. Let my erect penis lead the way. The way to freedom

what the fuck is he doing this is my compass it finds due north watch it'll lead us back he just sailed with the with a hard dick and she was not like oh nice dick she was not like she was ignoring him like being like okay she said she faced away from him

on purpose and wouldn't look at him the rest of the time this is uncomfortable he didn't even put his pants back on put yourself in her shoes

you're out on the water trapped with this guy right and he takes his dick out where you can't run are you gonna swim five the water trapped with this guy. Right. And he takes his dick out. You can't run. What, are you going to swim five miles back to shore? This is threatening.

This is scary. After telling you what the horrible sexual things he's done on this boat. That's what I'm saying. And now his dick's out. I'm afraid if I'm her. You know, this isn't like, we're laughing because it's ridiculous. But in reality, this shit is fucking scary. It really happens. This is actually scary.

It's silly to see Hank Kingsley with his foot up on the bow and his dick rock hard hands on the hips looking towards shore like he's you know that with nobility in his eyes that's funny but the fact that someone's actually there having to experience and he didn't even put him like up on top of the mast because it makes the boat go faster like summer rental? No, no, not at all. He just left him around his ankle. That's it. Standing at the wooden wheel. That's it. Imagine that. Imagine Captain Ron

standing at the wheel, erect penis, going crazy. Martin Short's like, what the fuck? Let's see how many movies from 87 to 95 we can reference today. Sailing references?

Fucking. What about Bob? I'll just throw it out there. I'm sailing. I'm sailing. And my dick is out. I'm sailing. My balls are feeling the breeze.

Dr. Marvin. Dr. Leo. Dr. Leo. Baby steps take my dick out and sail. Such a good movie. It's great. It's one of the greatest ones ever. It really is.

Phenomenal. God damn it. It's great. I sailed today, so I sail now. So, you know. Got that going for me. It's my first time, but I sail now. I'm a sailor now.

Let's see what this diving's all about. So, she faces away from him, and he returns to shore. He returned to shore. He didn't, like, you know, put it in her face. He didn't, like, you know, be like, hey, take a look at this or anything. Taste this and see if it's clean. He could tell that she wasn't into it, and he was like, oh, boy. So, he just let it go.

And then when they got to shore, he said that they shouldn't make a big deal out of it. Well, I bet you would want them to not make a big deal out of it. I guarantee you that'd be great for you. Hey, don't make a big deal out of the fact that I just made you severely uncomfortable and fear that you were going to be raped on a boat.

Let's not make a big deal out of that. Land ho, by the way, we don't say a word about this shit that made you shudder. So, July 9th or 10th, he has another woman on the boat named Rosemary Farmer. Okay, old fucking Washington himself here. Hank Kingsley Washington. He invited this farmer along, Rosemary Farmer, on the boat under the pretext of being interested in buying her house.

And he wanted to discuss it with her, which you usually do that at the house, not on a sailboat. Let's do it on my sailboat. We'll sail out and look at the house from the water. So after he's a doc, he asked if she would like to go for a sail. And as they motored out, as they're motoring out he says yeah my wife died of cancer this year so he hits her with that so he's talking about i want to buy the house i need to get out of this place because it's just got a lot of memories why does it have memories oh my wife died of cancer this year so he's going for that right there yeah oh poor man uh but at that point he

she said he then started touching her repeatedly uh started to put his hands down her pants oh and under her shirt oh that's far yeah that's a really aggressive uh he anchored near graves island and she asked to be taken back and he said how modest are you that was his response like oh look at you being all modest no she doesn't want to fuck you. She's uncomfortable with you. Take her back to shore. Instead, he dropped his pants and was naked and put a wetsuit on and swam around for a while while she was horrified up on the deck. And then he swam back up, took his wetsuit off again, dried himself all off, good and plenty naked. And then, you know, that was that.

Below deck in the galley below this guy's got a galley this son of a bitch he grabbed her around the waist and tried to pull her inside the sleeping cabin as well uh she took the stairs to get to the deck and he again dropped his shorts and then held her for several minutes before releasing her like you sure you don't want any of this he's disgusting he has the worst game ever it's the my wife has cancer touch my dick that's not a game you've got a 30 foot sailboat man he hasn't put he just goes he'll be like i have a sailboat my wife died touch my dick that's not a that's not he knows that all of those things together could equal someone touching his dick but

he doesn't know how to make it work that's not how to finesse that into someone touching his dick he's not a pussy engineer that's for sure he just lists it yeah i have a boat it's 28 feet long my wife died it was cancer here's my dick please touch it they're like what so on deck she sat uh in the stern and said that if he touched her again she would dive overboard and swim away. She's to the point where I will take my chances with the water before you. I'm done with you. So at that point, he just went back. He went home and was done with it.

That was it. So, wow. This is fucking crazy. She also convinced him to come in. And, wow. It's interesting. wow this is fucking crazy she also uh she convinced him to come in and uh wow it's it's interesting basically uh what she would describe as a mood of sexual aggressiveness yeah so all week he has been trying to get women on the boat to fuck him while his wife's away that's his game like my wife's away all the women will fuck me now now uh they're they they had found Martha, like we said.

Now, there's someone who takes credit for that. Yeah. Okay. Not the lobster guy? Not the lobster. Not a guy who randomly pulled it up in a lobster, but a witch. A local witch. Oh, my God.

Who says she is the official witch of Salem. Yeah. A woman named Lori Cabot. Okay. Who, on her site, it says she's world-renowned for her magic and psychic abilities. Oh, my. who on her site, it says she's world renowned for her magic and psychic abilities. Now, they said they gave her the name and location and birthplace of Martha, and she tuned in and had a vision of what happened to Martha. She reported that she saw Tom make sexual advances on Martha, and when she rejected him, he dragged her to the side of the boat and hit her head

and struck her head on the boat. And in her vision, Tom proceeded to put weights on her hips and tie an head on the boat and in her vision tom proceeded to put weights on her hips and tie an anchor to martha martha's feet before tossing her overboard and then she had described before it was found by the lobsterman she says that she described to the police where martha's body was in the water and then the martha's lobsterman found the body and uh yeah she said it was there just as I predicted. There it was. Okay. But yeah. Okay.

So did she write that down or like she told the police that she told the police all of this before the body was found? We don't know about that. That's what she says. I haven't heard the cops say that, but I've heard her say a lot. I told them they were over there. She says a lot, but I don't know. I don't know. Maybe she did.

I have no idea. I don't know. These witch chicks are fucking fascinating. Yeah. don't know maybe she did i have no idea i don't know these witch chicks are fucking fascinating yeah now the police here they're after hearing all of this they would just love to get uh tom back again here so they uh they this is after they find the body they find martha they uh they go in and and kick in his door to go get him basically like 10 minutes after they found her body they were like okay go get thomas and he

wasn't home he was gone yeah um he's at the lawyer's office uh no they wished he was at the lawyer's office the detective here the prosniewski he said that he was surprised not to find him home he said he initially he was cooperating with us he said quote he was always there he returned every call that i left on his message machine. That was before there was a body. Now there's a body and we can't get a phone call. He instead went on the run. So now Laurie Cabot, the local witch again, she said she went into her trance and had another vision.

Oh, boy. In her vision, she said she saw Tom shaving in a cabin and sensed that he was on his way to cross into Canada. But she also said she wanted to, you know, she said she offered to perform a binding spell to ensure he would make a mistake so stupid he would get caught. How much does that cost us? Well, let's see here. Now, the following Saturday, July 20th, he was arrested in northern Maine near the Canadian border in a cabin. Wild. Okay.

Come on. Okay. Now, the idea that he's crossing into Canada, pretty fucking obvious. Yeah. They're literally 40 miles away. That's the thing. Where else is he going? So he had a backpack of camping goods and all this sort of shit in his car he had maps

and compasses and all this he left his wedding ring behind with a note indicating how uh patricia could be reached like hey you can return this ring to my wife basically i'm gone tell her she died of cancer and i'm out of here fuck it uh but the problem was that this has nothing to do with psychics they didn't hear i mean even maybe she that, but that's not what drew police to this cabin. What drew police to the cabin was nosy small town neighbors who noticed a 1987 Ford, a silver Ford Taurus that they weren't familiar with. So they wrote the license plate down and said, we don't know who this is and called the fucking police on them.

Unreal. And it turns out they went, that's the car we're looking for. That's this guy. And they went up and busted him. So it's actually nosy, small town weirdos, not psychics that found him. That's awesome. So yeah, when they searched his house too,

they knew that he worked for the Parker Brothers Game Company, but they also found several business cards bearing his name with all sorts of different jobs and firms. Oh, shit. He just had, he was like, you know, catch me if you can, basically. He just had all sorts of, oh, here's my card.

And he worked for some other company. Because you can just get a card made. Of course. You can get a card right now and say you're the CEO of Microsoft. Absolutely. There you go. Jimmy Wissman, CEO of Microsoft. That means nothing.

The new one? Yeah, it means nothing. Business cards, you print them yourself. It's someone telling you something in a printed card form exactly do you because people are like well he wouldn't have got it printed if it was a lie when i went all the way to the printer do that why would he do that because it's very convincing get a business card you go that must be legit that's on stock look that's not paper that's some like raised letters cardboard stone james it's bone oh that's like it's a magnet it's got a watermark holy shit so police are very like what the fuck with this guy they're also checking he has discrepancies on his resumes uh there's one resume where he says he has a

doctorate degree she 100 doesn't have a neighbor and friend of his named Jim Brown, not the football player. No, no. He tells the Boston Globe that he had gone that that Martha had gone on board the counterpoint to help Steve to help him with his resume, help Thomas with his resume. That's what Thomas had told him. He said that Thomas worked as an engineer, but had been recently laid off and he needed a resume. engineer but had been recently laid off and he needed a resume brown also said that steve that uh that thomas had called him on the phone and gave him another version of the events saying that martha had gotten on the boat but he said that she same story with that he gave police she got hit in the head by choppy waves and he doesn't know he said uh this is what the the brown guy

said uh quote he said i just want you to be aware the place is going to be crawling with media and he doesn't know. He said, this is what the brown guy said, quote, he said, I just want you to be aware the place is going to be crawling with media. I had a little accident on my boat over the weekend and I'd like you to be a character witness. Okay. That's a hell of a sentence. That is not a little accident. No.

That's a big accident that you, a woman is dead. I murdered a bitch. I murdered a lady and I'd like you to tell everyone what a good guy I am. Whoops-a-daisy. Sorry. Not okay. Little accident.

Little accident. Now, through July 15th, he had control of the boat. But on July 16th, he signed a consent form that the police could take the boat into their custody. And the next day, police moved the boat from the yacht club in Hawthorne Cove Marina. And then he was him and his wife both on the boat here. Now, a police chemist and the rest of a team, they had a whole crime scene team made a search of the thing. They found and seized a mainsail with bloodstains.

But the problem is Thomas and Martha have the same blood type. And this is before DNA being very good. So you needed a very pristine sample. So they have the same blood type. And so in his testimony, he says, when he tells the cops, he says, well, that could be for me cutting my hands on those ropes and shit. You cut your hands on both. Shit is bloody. It's bloody.

He said, I could have got a nosebleed and had it on my hand and who knows i was fishing those hooks are sharp as shit i mean you hook yourself there's all sorts of shit here also uh a handheld vacuum cleaner a book of ocean charts uh there and also they uh uh they looked for uh like in below they looked below deck they looked for signs of uh you know blood or semen or anything like that they did the luminal test and uh found nothing down there and uh but then they they had a search warrant later on uh when they actually found the body on the 18th and they went back and seized other things uh there but nothing major they couldn't really find anything on the boat he cleaned cleaned up the boat pretty well apparently so uh on july 25th which is after he's been arrested here they videotape the exterior and

interior of the boat and then they return the boat to patricia they got they went over with a fine-tooth comb there's nothing more they can do with it so they give it back to his wife and uh he ends up signing his own interest in the boat over to patricia so she can sell it or something for financial shit because he's in jail he's been arrested so uh in august uh 1992 the boat was sold to a resident of connecticut and uh yeah then prior to trial though the the defense council is going to want to they have to track it down from the guy in connecticut so they can examine it as well now this is what a creepy is okay this is this is i've never heard of this in a court before first of all it it tells them a lot about the small town nature here but at the same time we've done

a lot of small town murders never had this before okay jury selection comes around for the trial uh wow the court stenographer you know the person typing the shit she saw him enter the room and had to remove herself and recuse herself from the case because she had recognized him as someone who tried to pick her up one time the clerk the the stenographer yeah that dude tried to pick me up one time i got to recuse myself out of here yeah i can't even write his words down that guy tried to fuck me yeah i got well it's just's just I'm biased against him. So she's trying to make sure there's no... Well, yeah, he's got to be above board.

So she does. She recuses herself. Okay, so that's weird enough as it is. We've never heard of the stenographer be like, that dude tried to pick me up and it was creepy. I can't do this. We've never heard of a stenographer recusing herself from a trial ever. I've never heard them speak.

Never mind recuse anything. I didn't even know that they had to be i thought you had to be a mute i thought you're to be seen and not heard except for click click click click click that's all maybe we should start checking in on the on the stenographer more often yeah check it out you okay right are you okay did that guy did the man touch you yeah so not only her but two two two not one yeah two female members of the jury pool stated they recognized thomas as a man who approached them in a sexual fashion this guy and they were excused how many people has he not tried to fuck yet he has tried to fuck everyone literally they

gather just a random assortment of people in court and three of the people he tried to have sex with including the court stenographer three of the what 15 people that i've never heard of a judge a stenographer and 12 jurors 15 people you bring in a hundred jurors just to go through the whole thing or even 75 or something like that but two of them he tried to fuck are you kidding me what are the odds of that that's insane yeah that's nuts that's what a pervert this guy is he is wild just anything that is moves he's all over it so that's we've never had a pervert of this level before no matter what they've done to anybody we've never had someone so wanting pussy as much as this guy wow so october of 92 he tries to make a motion to suppress his statements that he's made that are you know incriminating and

they say fuck no no no no you said that you were mirandized good and good and tight on that one so that's going to come in uh pathologists on both sides of the case uh rule the death is drowning for prosecution and defense. But because the body had been submerged for six days, they can't be entirely sure ever of that. Who knows? Sure. Her skull wasn't crushed or her rib cage wasn't. They know that much.

But anything else is really a guessing game at that point. They said they couldn't even do the certain tests that they wanted to do because in the condition the body was in it couldn't be done here now he's arraigned on august 2nd 1991 his lawyer here is a guy named jeffrey a denner he files a notice of appearance as his attorney on august 22nd uh it was already apparent here that he wasn't have the money to pay this guy. Thomas didn't. He didn't have the money that he was going to need, and this guy was getting in over his head, this attorney. He wasn't going to get the help he needed from this guy. So the attorney and client entered into an agreement for legal representation in which the attorney's fee was fixed at $200,000.

Don't kill anybody. It's very expensive. Yeah. This is, wow. It's a lot. Even if you have no moral repulsion to it, it's super expensive. So either way, just bad to kill people.

So in this, the provision in this, though, was the attorney could receive payment from the exploitation after the trial of a movie and like opportunities. Gross. Okay, yeah. Now, uh,

in the, it says in this agreement, in the event that the defendant should decide after trial that a movie book and, or other media opportunities would be pursued. He explicitly will and does authorize attorney Jeffrey dinner to pursue same for his own economic benefit. And further that any unpaid monies toward the foregoing legal fees should be paid directly out of any proceedings derived from said book movies or whatever so basically he's got points on this guy's back end up to 200 grand and then after that yeah points on the back end right now uh it's super fucking weird and we'll talk about later how that's possible because

the son of sam law has been really twisted and kind of reshaped in different states of different versions it's a weird thing son of sam long case you doesn't know don't know is a law that it's the kind of an over blanket law that says that you can't profit of from your crimes basically uh because you know son of sam wanted to write books about himself that would make him a lot of money so uh yeah so he had turned 20 january 27th 1992 the attorney uh appears before a judge uh seeking an allowance of funds to retain experts because he doesn't have them so the judge indicated that an allowance could be made if the attorney proceeded pro bono it's like sure we'll pay for the experts but not if you're getting paid it's not like you're gonna get paid and then the

state's gonna pay for experts uh you can go pro bono. And he agreed to do it. Really? Yeah. Now, I'm sure that agreement, though, is still in effect. I'm going to get paid in the back end. It's still in effect. And then they ended up canceling that agreement. Really?

Yes. And the defendant was aware of this. Thomas was aware of this. Yeah. So the venue, first of all, he wants a change of venue because this is big news around here. And she's her family. It's a big deal. It's a very big deal.

And the trial judge said she was well aware of the media attention and that none of it was really good toward him. It all made him look terrible. And the judge said, quote, I don't need to be really persuaded of the coverage because I have personally seen the coverage and know of the media interest, but still denied. You still can't change a venue. She said people here can figure it out. They can separate what they've heard from what they'll hear in court. They're smart people. So still, though, I think just for appearance sake, it's better to move that that thing.

You would think so. Just for appeal purposes here. So, yes, she wants to. It ends up, too, that judges have a lot of leeway. They can say no and say it's because I think the jury can figure it out. And they'll end up saying that's fine, even on appeal. So, also, the defense moves to dismiss before the trial, complaining that the Commonwealth here had failed to provide security tapes and or other protection while the boat was at the Hawthorne Cove and had returned it to Patricia in a condition that was mishandled.

He wants to dismiss a murder charge because he says his boat was mishandled. And they didn't really even find any evidence on there anyway, except blood that could be his or hers and that he already admitted hit her in the head so it doesn't fucking matter you don't need that blood you have his words so it's it's very stupid there uh thomas at trial he decides he needs to testify oh boy he's gonna testify this is crazy so yeah uh at trial he's got another story so i mean is that he does he needs to testify he already he already said he threw a woman overboard he based yeah if he doesn't testify and make the jury believe him they're just going to believe that minimum it's second degree murder right or something involuntary manslaughter i think he's trying to say total accident yeah i froze

i'm guilty of being a bad person that panicked but not i'm not it was no malice captain but yeah awful boat captain no you don't don't take i'll take no gay men the province down it won't work out so he says that they sailed out just fine this is a trial uh he said there was no sexual involvement or quarrel of any kind no argument everything was smooth sailing he said around sunset they were coming home and again rogue waves rogue waves struck the boat he said more martha was coming from the the foredeck to the cockpit and struck her face on the mast he said at that point another wave came as she was stumbling two of them she got nordberg the ocean left and right it the thing. The ocean left and right at her? It was a Nordberg thing. Like she hit her head and then went over, burned her hand on the stove and then leaned

on wet paint. And then that's what happened. Walked through a spider web. Obviously. Stuck on the flypaper. See? 87 to 91. I think I fucking forgot.

I think it was 86, but still close enough. Close enough. So, yeah, apparently another wave came and martha got thrown overboard you know horse shit he saw her in the water swimming toward the boat he said he could not make eye contact with her and so he did not throw her the flotation device like he couldn't like say like here's the flotation device because she didn't make eye contact. So he just let her flail rather than throwing it and being like, it's to your left. There's no word. Hey, I couldn't see her.

Look right. It'll save your life. Yeah. So I just said, fuck it. I'll let her drown. No, that's ridiculous. Wild. So he said instead he tried to maneuver the boat with its swim ladder toward her because that's easier than throwing her a fucking a flotation device.

28 foot. Yeah, he's going to try to. It's a lot of boat. He's going to parallel park it next to her so she can climb up on that. That's much easier than throwing a thing and going to your left. Right. Idiot. 28 feet.

That's too much boat. He said she didn't grab it. She just didn't grab it. It's just too much boat. It's too much boat. it's too much boat it's too much boat he has like jet boat or a pontoon boat this guy that's what he he this boat should have been called the pussy pontoon that's what he was after that's what he was doing jet boat the poon tune jesus christ ah so uh yeah he says that uh uh he stepped down the ladder because she was down there and he said he uh stepped down the ladder and uh he put the top part of his wetsuit on and went down the ladder and grabbed a hold of her and he said it took a

lot of effort to get her back up on the deck you know a grown person pulling her out of the water soaking wet pulled her out of the water and he said he got her on the deck, you know, a grown person, pulling her out of the water. Soaking wet. Soaking wet. Pulled her out of the water and he said he got her on the deck and he said he tried to revive her. He gave her CPR and mouth to mouth. He said he, quote, worked against hyperthermia

by removing her wet clothes and wrapping her in towels. July? July. Well, it's cold water still. That's cold water out there. And if you came off, still. I don't know.

Wrapping her in towels. He said he realized she was dead because her body released urine, which made her realize she was dead. And then he was like, oh, at that point, he said he's in a panic now. He said, oh, no, what do I do? So he said, what am I going to do? There's a woman's in my boat. My wife's out of town. Piss everywhere. This looks terrible. Yeah, this looks awful. Piss to do? There's a woman in my boat. My wife's out of town. Piss everywhere.

This looks terrible. Yeah, this looks awful. Piss and blood. It's a real disaster. In the end, he said that he just motored out to Children's Island. He said he brought up an anchor and a diver's belt from below, weighed Martha down with the anchor and the belt, and threw her into the water.

This is his story that's supposed to get him off of a murder charge. He said that he was incapable of a better response. He says, you know, because they said you could have used the radio and called for help or at least told someone and everything like that. But he said he was just incapable of it. He was so frozen. Who would believe this? He was after his wife died of cancer. The man's traumatized.

What do you want from him? She was just here to do a resume. That's what I mean. Good God. So he said he caught to shore and he got home. It was well after midnight by the time he got home.

So that's that. He gives that scenario here. He says, Jesus Christ, there is no way to measure the storm that would be directed towards me if I went straight in, he said,

with the body. Like if he just came in with dead Marth on board, he said, there's no way to measure the storm that would be directed towards me if I went straight in, he said, with the body. Like if he just came in with dead Marth on board, he said. There's no way to measure the storm that would be directed towards me if I went straight in. He said, I didn't want to lose my house and I didn't want to lose my wife. I'm sure she didn't want to die and I bet Brian didn't want to lose his wife either. So, I mean, we all have things that we don't want. But here we are with you losing your house and your wife. Here we all are.

You fucking jerk. At a murder trial, though. So, everybody lost everything, Tommy. So. What a theory. Yeah. Then after this, they brought in all of the women that he brought the week before. Yeah.

So there's a pattern of every day that week. Him, you know, erect penis sailing. That looks great to a jury. And then he sailed with his erect penis leading the way as the, you know, the North star the whole time. What a wild fucking thing. Jesus Christ.

Uh, so he calls also the defense calls a Dr. Harold, uh, Burstan, who's a forensic psychiatrist. Yeah. And he says that,

that Thomas suffers from a schizo typal personality disorder, which is a mental condition that made him respond to conflict by a process of make-believe. You know, an asshole. You can call that whatever you want. You know, an immature twat. You can call it whatever you want. You know, not an adult.

You know, a fucking responsible manslaughterer. There's a million different names for it. I don't know if schizoid personality or schizotypal personality disorder fits into it not to make fun of mental illness but this is horseshit yeah fuck you they're making fun of mental illness when they're using something to jesus christ typecast and diagnose a legitimate dick he's a dick he's a fucking jerk he's a dick joe by all his behavior then he says it was this he his brain went into a thing of make-believe i'm sure there's people in the world that that

actually happens to he ain't one of them that's all i'm saying he's a guy that doesn't look the way he wishes he looked who doesn't get the amount of pussy he wishes he got and he tried to do it for a week and it didn't work it didn't work he's like i guess i'm not a poor boy damn it back to this back to the couches hank kingsley fucking jerk he says that uh uh the the doctor also says in a crisis situation like this thomas might have believed that brian brailsford the husband was on the way to rescue her that's what he believed in his head because he just you know he went into a fantasy world so he said oh i'll just go in here. Brian's on her way. He'll take care of her. I gave her a purse. Everything should be fine.

Whoa, boy. So this guy also says that he thought Thomas was incapable of violence. So in his opinion, Martha must have died by accident because he couldn't have killed her, obviously. So, you know, ipso facto. Fucking the fuck. facto fucking the fuck if the if the day oh my god they said that uh you know if he did participate in the death at all it could definitely not have been with malice no way like it was a total accident and all that sort of shit uh yeah so uh self-delusion is what they said that's why let's have some kind of believable some kind of shit there but the jury i think is probably going to look at it in a couple of different ways uh they're going to look

at it that they're not going to believe that martha fell into the water and then in an attempt to rescue her she died uh first of all slip overboard was not she's not going to slip and fall overboard she's experienced with boats she knows where the mast is she's not going to be walking hit her head on something and slip and fall she's going to go on a boat she's going to have the right shoes for it she knows how to do shit she knows where the sails are gonna bring the bottle of wine she's not stupid little towel she knows what's up here gonna lay down and watch the stars that's it so uh you know that's not going to happen also uh uh the five different points of damage to her head including the crackening and loosening of teeth on different sides of the mouth that would take two different blows, is still there.

That could also make him sound like he's full of shit. Also, then the jury, the jury can very easily think, well, if he tried to have sex with all three of those women and been rejected all week and then then Martha's rejecting him too. And she's a neighbor. So what if she gets mad and tells her, what if she said, I'm going to call the police or I'm going to tell my husband. Thomas is in deep shit at that point. So that's what they're thinking of. So they, you know, it looks bad here, I would say.

So, wow. The defense in his closing argument here, the Jeffrey Denner guy, he says that, you know, it's an accident. That's all. He says, quote, if Thomas Maimone is charged with being a pathological liar, with being a pathetic jerk who drops his pants with disposing of a body, then he's guilty. He threw that disposing of a body in there. Right at the end. Pathological liar, pathetic jerk who drops his pants disposing of a body those are

you just say you tried to real casually throw that in there you're gonna make a guy that disposes a body the same guy as the guy that drops his pants i mean possibly but you know it's possible but it's not the same level he's putting it all in his one he says liar pathetic jerk who drops his pants with that with disposing of a body then he he's guilty. Fine. But he's charged with murder here. This is different. Also, the defense asked the judge to instruct the jury on a voluntary manslaughter charge as well. Hey, what about that? You know, hey, he didn't rescue her, but first or second degree murder sounds a little harsh.

Hey, what are we talking about? The judge says, no, they're good. First and second's good. I don't buy that shit. Fuck him. So there's that. February 12th, 1993, a verdict comes in. He can be found either not guilty or guilty of first or second degree murder.

He is guilty of second degree murder. They find him here. They don't think that this was a premeditated thing. He's just trolling for whatever falls in. Trolling for pussy. It doesn't work, and he has to get rid of it that's it uh now sentencing we'll see because the second degree can there's some degrees to that where you can get a lower sentence uh let's see what he ends up with you sir may fuck off life in prison for you enjoy possibility, shit. Possibility of parole, though, but not for a while. But still, life in prison. In Massachusetts, you got to do 25?

I believe so. Well, we'll talk about it. 2006. So I think it's 15 is basically what he ends up with. 15 from the time he went in. Now, that's his first parole here we'll talk about. Now, the media after this uh uh the the the thing they were talking about the book was because there was interest from a person named joan pinkham

of fly by night productions in 1991 who uh communicated with the attorney about a media treatment of the case but there was no through the trial it was all off you know they all stopped it but then in march 1993 a month after the verdict, the Joan Pinkham resumed communication with the attorney. And he was in the process of drafting a contract to be entered into the with the defendant for media rights. And then that one ended up being abandoned. And the attorney's representation of Thomas in the case came to an end on June 8th with when he put a motion into withdraw. So the son of Sam law, what I was talking about, kind of ebbed and flowed a little bit here.

In 87, Simon & Schuster sued the state of New York to prevent enforcement of the law with respect to the book Wiseguy, which turned into Goodfellas. It's based on the book Goodfellas. It's Henry Hill's book. And the case reached the Supreme Court. And in 8-0 ruling, the court ruled the law unconstitutional. So that's why there's different, yeah, it weakened this law a lot.

Is it based on like open market and capitalism and shit? Basically, the majority said that the law was over-inclusive and would have prevented publications such as works of the autobiography of Malcolm X, because he was arrested, things like that. Confessions of St. Augustine, big-time books that were important books. The State of California's Son of Sam Law was struck down in 2002 after it was used against Barry Keenan, who was one of the people who kidnapped Frank Sinatra Jr. in 1963. He was trying to write a book about it 40 years later no harm no foul frank was on the sopranos like every week i think he was fine you know what i mean frank jr probably forgave and forgot there so new york adopted a

new son of sam law in 2001 the law requires victims of crimes be notified whenever a victim whenever a person convicted receives ten thousand,000 or more from any source. That makes sense. That means they can now sue him for that. Sue him. So that's the way where you make as much as you want, but we're going to sue you for it. The good news is- That's better, I think.

That's actually a brilliant thing because if that person is found guilty in court, you can sue them for wrongful death. But if they have fucking nothing, what's the point? If they write a book and make a bunch of money, you can go take that shit from them yeah that's nowhere to put it that's why if i did it the oj book that's why it's got fred goldman that's why it's fred goldman's book fred goldman owns that book because he sued oj for it and he sued to put it out but for him to get all the profits right and to change shit in it which he did uh so now to edit the fucking yeah yeah it's crazy wow so now on appeal uh we'll go through the appeal real quick because the parole hearings are what's interesting here on appeal

they they he appeals the prior bad acts thing that's one thing because they brought in him they always do that the the resumes him being a general wire his business cards and him lying to the women out on the boat and trying to fuck them and erect penis sailing and all that shit here uh so uh because they let two two of the three women that he was with that that week testify and the judge conducted a you know evidentiary hearing and all that kind of shit um they said that the a person's particular bad acts may not be offered to prove his bad character or propensity to commit crimes but it may be introduced for other relevant purposes uh the evidence of the of what they did in this case was admissible on because it was the purpose of countering his protestations following the disappearance that

he would not sail alone uh that he would not sail with a woman you know while he was married or whatever that wasn't his wife. So they're saying, yes, you would. You took these two women out that day. Oh, what happened while you were on the boat? Oh, his dick was out the whole time. And that's how that comes in. So it is.

That's just the way it is. And also they said further evidence supports a plan or pattern of conduct to bring women along for what they call sexual adventure. That's what the court called it. Sexual adventure. That's a weird way to put it.

So they should call pirates of the Caribbean. That's all that was. Sexual. I feel like whoever was typing this got to that and stopped and went adventure. I guess I don't know what they had to think about that one for a second. I don't know. So yeah, it was the house buying pretext with the one lady and all that sort of thing the resume with

Martha and uh basically they showed that he kind of got more sexually aggressive over the course of the week with these other two girls and you know this could have been here one of the women you know said that the woman was she felt imprisoned miles offshore in a sailboat with a guy with his dick out that's scary uh so also they say that the defendant was himself offering expert testimony about his own psychological makeup and mental state at the time uh to explain and possibly condone his behavior toward martha his lies to the police his final flight uh the commonwealth was entitled to a response to introduce evidence

likewise bearing on his mental state because that's what he was trying to say there. So also the photographs, he tries to say there was, you know, photographs of her skull

and shit like that allowed in, but we've done that a million times. We know unless it's really over the top, they're going to let that in. And also the manslaughter thing is his big deal.

Doesn't manslaughter sound like a salad? Sounds a yeah like i'll take a manslaughter it sounds worse it sounds like a salad that has bacon on it it sounds worse than murder it's weird yes slaughter yeah that sounds terrible literally slaughter sounds like you went in with like a machete and just hack someone to pieces there was nothing left just pieces chunks arms on the walls hanging off just manslaughter sounds terrible it sounds way worse yeah manslaughter sounds terrible so uh uh yeah so they talk about that he says it should have been manslaughter because his thing was that he it was unintentional and they went in and the judge just didn't believe that uh they said quote because the contention that involuntary manslaughter was a possible verdict rests on the hypothesis not supported by the evidence there's no error in failing to charge the jury on it so he there

was zero evidence that said it was involuntary manslaughter everything looked bad then he also says his his uh his counsel was ineffective he says that uh he argues that he was inept in the questioning of the doctor the psycho the psychologist and so, and it just blunted the point of his testimony. They said it was just, you know, forget about it. He ruined it all. He would have gotten off if he knew how to question this guy, basically. The guy cost $200,000. I'm sure he did fine.

Now, yeah, the judge told the jury, once again, in thinking about the issue of malice afterthought, because that's what they were talking about, you need to consider the defendant's mental condition. You must consider whether, when debilitating or deliberating on the question of malice afterthought because that's what they were talking about you need to consider the defendant's mental condition you must consider whether when debilitating or deliberating on the question of malice whether his mental condition uh the defendant had the capacity to form the specific intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm so they gave the instruction of if you believe that guy then you don't you don't believe this so uh anyway appeal denied yeah fuck off that's 96. Get the hell back in jail, mister.

Now while he's in prison, and there's a couple of crazy parole things coming up, a book is written in 1997. This is by the Joan Pinkham. She ends up writing this book. It's called A Scream on the Water, A True Story of Murder in Salem. So that's one which sounds like very true crime.

Our titles are like mocking that true crime yeah like our titles are like mocking that right that's what our titles are our titles scream on the water our titles are all like kind of satire of of that sort of shit of the overdramatic and cheesy title yeah and then in 98 this was covered by city confidential oh a and e if you don't know used to have this show called city confidential hadial. Had this guy with this voice. I mean, Salem, Massachusetts. And it was like, it was an amazing voice. And it was, his voice was creepy. You know, it's a murder story.

And this show was on forever. They had 12 seasons. This was the fifth episode. Really? This was the first season, fifth episode in 1998. Wow. No one has seen this. I mean, it hasn't been on in 20 years.

No one's seen this shit at all. So't been on in 20 years no one's seen this shit at all so while this is happening he's in prison 2006 he's up for parole yeah he's 62 years old um in this hearing he acknowledges being guilty of panicking and trying to get rid of her body that's his new thing now i tried to get rid of the body but it was only because i panicked so i you know put the weights on just like i said in trial it's a rogue wave that's fine what a fucking story man well then he tells the parole board this is his way of trying to get out he goes quote first of all my sailing days are over you guys let me out my dick's gonna stay in my pants and then off of boats under this you won't see this bear dick on a boat again.

Well, then he says he just tries to put it off as like inadequate sailing ability. That's what he tries to put it off. Not sexual aggression or clearly I'm no first mate, not caring of human life, indifference to human life. He says my sailing days are over under Under the stress of that situation, I failed. And I don't believe I should be in charge of another vessel ever. Yeah. No, you really shouldn't. For way more reasons than that.

Not a boat, not a dick. Stay away from vessels. Shit. He said that he was accountable for the safety and well-being of all passengers and crew and that's what he screwed up on so that being said i've learned my lesson let me out of jail that's what he says he says literally quote i hope to convey straight away my profound remorse for my actions regarding the disposal of martha's remains at sea i look at a person who is either perhaps uh oh i'm sorry this is a parole board talking uh the

parole board woman uh answered him by saying quote i look at a person who is either perhaps an innocent man or one of the most manipulative and maniacal men who has ever been placed before the parole board one of the two right uh i don't know if you're capable of telling the truth it doesn't seem like it to me that's what she said here now martha's husband brother our husband mother sisters in-laws everybody was there saying don't let this piece of shit out of jail uh he had nobody there no so that doesn't look good for you uh they said after listening to the testimony we heard here today i don't think there's all that much i need to say this is what brian brailsford said the husband uh all i ask is that all i ask this board is that we not go through this process

again any sooner than necessary you're not going to let him out let's not let's put the put it on the board for a long time they're required to see him every five years so they don't put him on the board again until 2011 it's five more years we'll him sit. That's still only 20 years since he's done this horrible thing. Denied parole. Parole attempt number two. Yeah. Okay. Jesus Christ.

This is 2012. They get weirder and weirder as he tries to figure out how to work the system. The parole board member said, Cesar Archilla said, quote, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone of parole hearings. It's lie after lie every statement's a lie he says uh uh he says that basically steven and got in front of our thomas steven i want to call him steven for something nobody i want to call him steven the whole show i've had to stop myself uh thomas tells them that he suffers from incredulity disorder, is what he says.

I lie a lot? Yeah, exactly. I lie a lot, and I go into fantasy worlds. He's a pathological liar. And my brain goes into fantasy worlds in times of stress. Not only do I lie, I think of crazy shit. And then I lie about it. Right.

And then I make you believe it's real. And then lie about it right on top of it and then i make you believe it's real and then lie about that so uh this guy said uh quote i'm into the pro the the uh the prosecutor was there and he said quote i'm incredulous i can't believe what i what i'm hearing it's like you live in an alternate reality which is fucking amazing uh uh he he claims that he had post-traumatic stress disorder stemming from Martha's death. Now, to have a murderer try to get sympathy for post-traumatic stress disorder is really next level.

That is next level manipulation. It really is. That's like making your wife feel bad that she doesn't have cancer because you couldn't get laid. That would be the equivalent of that. This is crazy. I ingested penis.

I am a mess. Tomer trying to get paroled would be the best. Yeah, I'm so... Do you know the shit I've seen? I've seen human flesh dissolved in acid. It's crazy. I can't do this jail thing. I've seen holes in people's head because i drilled them

it's fucking nuts uh so he says that he this is the reason why he needs to be released ptsd i can't do this jail thing anymore he said the only thing the way this is going to work is if you release him from state prison so he could be admitted into the va hospital in Rhode Island for treatment for PTSD. Because I'm so messed up by this. Okay. Yeah. He also told the family and friends of Martha that, quote, he takes full responsibility for my decision to place her in harm's way.

Which is, you might as well say nothing. That's worse than saying I didn't do it to me. That's like, no, no, no, motherfucker. Don't go halfway and say you put her in harm's way. Say you killed her, threw her in the water, and tossed her person, you scumbag fuck. I take full responsibility for some shit. For what? He said he then admitted that dumping her weighted naked body overboard was, quote, inhumane and unconscionable. Yeah, we know, motherfucker.

That's the point he says that he did nothing wrong and the board members at this point were like we've heard testimony from these other women you're inviting them on the boat you're making sexual advances you hung the flag off of your penis you used it as a as a as a mast head this is not come on man look it's a pirate flag uh he says he look at it i'm a fucking pirate yeah you're not a pirate unless your pirate flag is hanging from your erect penis while you sail then you're a pirate i'm about to pillage that's that's pirating right there i don't think the pirates of the caribbean movies would have been quite as popular with that he says wow that was not part of the

trial is what he says and even though the transcript says it was right he says that that witness did not take the stand at trial i was not given an opportunity to defend myself on that not true he was uh then the prosecutor is there still he says quote you are probably one of the most dangerous persons that have been here before me. You're a predator in every sense of the word. You wouldn't know the truth if it knocked you over. I like that. Then another board member said, quote, The family of Martha Brailsford has not yet heard you describe what you did to her. You maintained this preposterous story and you say you have remorse.

Those two things don't go together. Right. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. He says he was adamant that the five blows to martha's head uh must have came from the lobsterman who pulled up her body must have got dinged around in the cage or something that's what they're saying loosened up to you okay uh wow and in his closing statement here he gives uh he says quote this is

this is his big admission he says quote i have lived a life of lies, deception, and dishonesty. I did a poor job today. I have been interested in finding the source of all this. I don't know where it came from because I grew up in a healthy household. I did a poor job. He's like a quarterback who just lost. Really? I mailed it in today, guys.

We're looking forward to next week. I know when I roll left, I shouldn't throw right, but he looked open and you know it's my bad since he's on the schedule next week that's all it is babe you know how it goes we'll go down we'll beat the shit out of the dolphins it'll be all good the scariest part about this to me is uh they have no way of determining whether or not he sexually assaulted that body you know what i mean they have no we don't know what happened no he could have just right had sex with her tossed her overboard beat the shit out i think that's kind of what they assume yeah it's one of those things and they assume that's what the jury assumed too i hope so yeah he probably did probably did some terrible stuff oh yeah why else he had

her out there for a reason yeah so uh and if you did all of that i'd cop to uh she fell overboard and i just kept going too because that is so far from what really happened that's what i mean i'll gladly take the punishment for that over i dragged her up here right yeah i started humping on horrible shit to her fucking ridiculous unbelievable so the the board here uh says they not only do they his conduct during the killing was you know obscene but his conduct since the slaying as they've noted in the last five years, he later mailed a bloodstained pillowcase to the prosecutor of the case. I guess here's my blood tested. I don't know.

So he mailed him a bloodstained pillowcase, then went on to sue the prosecutor. Then he sued the lead investigator and two witnesses as well as his former attorney so all this for he just i don't know he's mad he's gonna be mad at us too fuck i'm gonna sue everybody sue them all god damn it uh now uh uh the assistant district attorney speaks against his relief a release on behalf of you know the whole county and state, basically. Brailsford's Martha's twin sister. She's got a twin. She's got a twin. She's got an identical twin.

I believe she's identical. Muriel. Muriel says that Thomas needs to stay locked up. She says, quote, I believe Mr. Maoni is the same person today that he was when he brutally sent her to death and denied parole number two. Also in 2012, a book comes out, another one, a book called Counterpoint, A Murder in Massachusetts. And it's by Margaret Press and also Joan Pinkham is back for this one. Yeah, I'm going to rewrite it off this time. Counterpoint, James, like the boat.

Like the boat. That's ridiculous. That's the name, babe. point james like the boat like the boat's ridiculous that's the name babe uh october 16th to uh october 2016 is parole attempt number three okay this is interesting now uh now this is the third time that the poor brian brailsford and her family relive the whole goddamn thing go sit here it's been 25 years now of just this this, of having to see this asshole. So Thomas, now he's got a new story. Now he's blaming Martha. Now it's her fault that this happened.

He claims now, now he's got a totally new story. What I said before, scratch that. My bad. Now this is what really happened. I'm finally out of my funk of fantasy PTSD land. Now I can tell you what happened. He says, first of all, it would be impossible to make sexual advances on someone on a boat in a busy place like Salem Harbor.

So obviously I didn't do that. He says, then he goes on to say that he quote, quote, he concedes that risky, risky behavior was at play. That's what he says. So now he's trying to say that, you know, everybody knew it was going on. That's what he says. So now he's trying to say that, you know, everybody knew it was going on. He shifts his story again after that, because that implies that both parties knew what was up.

OK, then he shifts his story, saying that Martha was not a sexual interest, but it was just his crew for the day. This is what he says. She's just my crew. I wasn't trying to fuck her. It was an accident. This is ridiculous. It's crazy. He gives a lengthy opening statement where he expressed remorse.

He says that he's sorry for his behavior and claims he suffers from, not PTSD now, now it's survivor's guilt. Oh, boy. Survivor's guilt. You know,

like people who survived the Holocaust or a plane crash or a school shooting or some fucking horrible thing like that or when you murder someone oh how did i survive and they it's almost like someone killed her on purpose and not me and no one killed me on purpose uh wow he admitted that he told people that his wife had died of cancer he admitted he had years of lying and deception he says he admitted that he told people his wife died of

cancer because he quote could not deal with the pain and embarrassment after his first marriage broke up. Just couldn't deal with it. Well, once you have a second marriage, it doesn't matter. Once you're on your fourth, the really the pain and shame should be gone by now. You know, I think there's no way this works. Right. Well, a board member questions him as why they should believe his account of the events. And, you know, they said the board member said, I why they should believe his account of the events and uh you know

they said the board member said i think you're dishonest i agree with the former you know the board's findings before he responded that he's getting help that he's working on getting the help he needs to quote get the answers as part of his treatment plan he was asked the the events that transpired on the day of the murder he He said that he was married to his fourth wife. She had gone to visit her sister out of state. And he said that he and Martha were not engaged in any sort of tryst, nor did he have romantic intentions. When asked if he had previously taken women out on the boat to make advances toward them, he said, quote, I had an unselfish concern for a lot of people,

and a lot of people came into my life women men and women i engaged in relationships with them not sexual not romantic so he's saying he was mentoring these poor women that's literally what he said trying to show them what it's like on a boat i had an unselfish concern for a lot i'm just too good that's the problem i wouldn't be in prison if i wasn't such a fucking good guy look at at my penis. Wow. David Jones, giant squid. David Jones, giant squid. Fuck.

He just wanted to show them the brilliance with which that trilogy is created. That's what he did. He was like, come on board. I'm going to show you a giant squid. Keira Knightley. Keira Knightley. Jack Sparrow.

He says also that he believed that Martha's husband would be joining them that day, and he had second thoughts about taking Martha out on the boat when she showed up alone. He was like, oh, boy, I thought the husband was coming. He said that she convinced him that her husband knew where she was, and it's fine. It's all good. So he was like, okay, I guess if you say it's all right, because he wasn't going to push it. He then said that he and Martha sailed the local waters. He had plans to meet some of his friends who'd be on another boat that day.

This is some kind of life these people live. Jesus Christ. He said that his friends had been late showing up, and then at 8.30 p.m., Thomas and Martha decided to sail home. He said it's at that point they were in Gloucester, and that's the time where he made a decision to transition from sail power to auxiliary diesel power. Now, it's the other way. Before he was powering down. Now he's powering up. He says that he says that Martha went up to the deck to retrieve the main sail and a wave hit the boat, sending her airborne.

That would be a big fucking wave. I've been on boats, dude. Waves don't send human grown people airborne. They just don't. It's one of those things. If you're on the ocean and there's a storm, it's one thing. But if you're out. A random ass wave.

Unless it's that kind of day. It's not that kind of day. You don't just get one wave of chop like that. And also, by the way, her father like knows everything about boats he's like a harbor master all his shit he has i've never seen he even testifies that that doesn't exist rose rogue waves they bring in several like nautical experts to say yeah it's not a thing that happens just shoots adults off the boat that doesn't happen all the time people will be flying off boats left no one would go boating be the most dangerous thing in the world there'd never be a navy member no ever ever we would never have a navy by the time we got anywhere three quarters

of them be in the ocean just flying off this wave from the way it would be empty how do we sail with no waves we would only have submarines yeah so he said that uh she went up to the deck to retrieve the main sail a wave hit the boat center airborne he says that she landed on all fours on the deck. He claims he didn't attack her at all and that she was not even injured on the boat. He said that she was subsequently ejected from the boat when a second wave hit. So she's on all fours. Another wave hit. He's fine, all this, but she is being thrown into the air, then shot from her knees

three feet through the air over a wall into the ocean. Well, it would do that to him, too. But he's fine. It's because his penis was tangled in the wheel of the boat. He anchored himself with his penis. He put the anchor. He ties it to his penis. That's the thing.

Held him firmly. Yeah. He then said that he went into, quote, recovery mode, like a computer, apparently making efforts to bring her back to the boat. He says in his estimate, it took him about 15 minutes to recover Martha from the ocean after she fell in. She's unconscious. She wasn't breathing when she got back on the boat. He attempted CPR, yada, yada. When asked how long it was that this whole thing happened, they said, how long was he on the boat with her between the time that she died and the point when he dropped her body into the ocean? He said, seven hours.

Seven hours. He just hung out with a dead body the whole time and then said, I guess I'll dump her over the board. The other question is, 15 minutes that it took you to get her in the boat it should take you seven seconds to jump off that radio the coast go get her immediately swim right the fuck back and call that's it that should be i don't know 15 seconds yeah seven minutes it would be long two minutes should seven hours is insane seven hours is nuts uh they ask him why did you tell people your wife died of cancer he says those that was private conversations that are taken out of context that's his answer yeah you know i'm trying to get pussy and i'm lying calm down what have you said to women for chill out man yeah that's uh jesus christ

um so they talk about the things like this tastes like pineapple yeah that's what i've heard he says that uh uh he claims that the accounts that the women testified for a trial were concocted by the prosecutor who coached them to testify to these stories. He said, quote, where's the sex? Well, they didn't want to fuck you. So nowhere you need. No, you didn't have sex with them because they said, you're gross. Take me back to shore. Your dick is out. I don't like this. So now he claims that the Roe of wags knocked her off and all this type of shit he went on to say that he thought in his mind he thought that brian her husband would have been out on a boat with a quote flotilla because he insisted martha had told him that he her husband

knew where he was so if his own wife had gone missing i would have looked for now he tried to blame brian too why didn't he get out there i mean she was she said he she told him so i mean i think it's honestly his fault for not looking for that's what it is it wouldn't matter she's at the bottom of the fucking ocean yeah uh he claimed to be suffering from all this trauma he also claims that uh uh for the first time that he left this is the first time he's ever said this. He said that he left her watch there off the coast of Gloucester. Quote, I left it there as proof of the timeline. That's what she said.

That's what he said, which makes no sense. He won't admit guilt, though, at all. He says, quote, I would like the family to know I accept full responsibility for my actions. I feel, he says, quote, I feel their rancor and anger directed toward me that's good i've had losses in my life and death and i understand it fully everyone is entitled to their opinions and i respect that wow god damn it i'd love brian just to be able to pop him right in the mouth one time you're right in his fat forehead opinion pow one good shot in the fat forehead from brian man whoa that's annoying

uh people were frustrated uh one board member when he was done called him offensive and insulting and another one called it disgusting what he just said uh one uh charlene bonner who's on the board said quote i'm afraid to ask any questions i think it's an exercise in futility i think you're a fucking liar uh he kept avoiding the question of describe what you did in seven hours by saying quote i'm getting to that and then he all he would do was uh offer an elaborate account of plans to meet a couple friends on their boat and switching the motor and all that type of shit and they kept saying the the the bonner charlene uh bonner kept saying what happened well what happened and he never had an answer james what if he oh jesus what if he fucked with that body for seven seven

hours he had that's what i mean oh my who knows what he was doing for seven hours it's disgusting to it i can't say it i can't say it out loud it's it's gross i feel like a piece of garbage for that finally the chairman voiced his frustration saying quote i've been sitting here for over an hour and I still have no idea why you appeared for a hearing. I still have no idea what the facts are. I think you're incapable of telling the truth. He says it's called his shit, quote, incredulous, fanatic, fantastical stories that are offensive and insulting. He also insists that he could not offer his version of the events. That's why he's avoiding the question.

Because of a mandate from the First Circuit Court of Appeals, which upheld the dismissal of his latest federal appeal. And he said that they think that he misunderstood the legal language as some sort of gag on him. But he said he took issue with the official version of events and everything like that. But he said he took a issue with the official version of events and everything like that. He took shots at the board's former chairman while there, while trying to get parole. Like, thank God that asshole's gone, right, everybody? Now you'll work out. The guy's like, that's my brother.

Yeah. He even, he requested, he wrote to the district attorney's office, asked the prosecutor that they remove any sexual references from the official version of the trial transcripts and they said no uh and then finally here uh after all this they call him very hostile uh the one guy says it appears you're trying to portray yourself as the victim uh he says during his his incarceration he's done programs correctional recovery academy anger management alternative to violence program uh he says he was uh participating in the sex offender programs, Correctional Recovery Academy, Anger Management, Alternative to Violence Program. He says he was participating in the Sex Offender Treatment Program, even though he doesn't believe he's a sex offender. He says he doesn't see himself as one, but that he's enduring it and committed to treatment.

He acknowledged that his crime has sexual overtones, but he says that Martha's body was nude when he disposed of her remains and he says that uh dressing those overtones he's responsible for that but he didn't have sex with her so i might have got her nude and threw her overboard but didn't have sex with her doff do protest too much uh yeah uh he did not have any supporters in the uh in the hearing in his opening statement he said that he did not invite anyone to attend. Meanwhile, Martha's husband, family, friends, and family were all there to testify in opposition to him being granted parole, as well as the prosecutors, everything like that. He says that he hadn't planned to speak during the hearing, but this is Brian, the husband. So he didn't plan to speak, but the bullshit this guy is speaking has made me have to fucking say fuck that he says

quote i'm sure the board realizes tom has come up with yet another version tom should definitely be in prison for the rest of his life it's tough coming here every five years they go you're right denied fuck this guy back to jail with you he keeps working on his appeals until october 19th 2017 when uh he is suffering from a chronic illness illness and dies yes at the beth israel uh uh deaconess medical center in boston choking on bullshit yep he is buried uh with his uh his erect penis at half mast they needed a curved coffin for him but he is fucking dead finally so yay he died in prison he died in prison so brian i'm sure i went thank god okay never have to do that ever again that chapter at least i can put behind me and not have to look at that asshole and hear him be full of

shit in front in public again and blame me and blame my wife for it. Yeah, blame my wife for trying to help him and be a nice person. Bastard. Son of a bitch. So that, my friends, is Salem, Massachusetts. Well, the other thing, too,

we can tell one thing. She's definitely not a witch. Yeah. Certainly. She drowned. She's not a witch. Right. That's a thing.

Otherwise, we've made no references the whole time so we have to there so anyway if you enjoyed that show very easy to tell us about it get on apple podcast that purple icon give us five stars doesn't matter what you say say you're following instructions say you're following directions say they're forcing me to do this it's very dark in here and i can't breathe that's fine also it doesn't matter head over to shut up and give me murder.com all sorts of new merchandise up there information also info crime and sports listen to the crime and sports podcast if you do not i'm telling you guys you do not have to like sports at all you really don't it's us making fun of an asshole for like two and a half hours you're gonna like it if you like this so check out crime and sports get your tickets to live shows denver and salt lake are sold out in early february but february 15th and 16th

indianapolis indiana and louisville kentucky we will be there at the egyptian and the bomard theaters uh respectively march 13th and 14th we're in san francisco two late shows at cobs comedy theater it's an awesome venue too uh it's right down by Fisherman's Wharf. Very cool place. Come party with us late, because we'll be having fun that day. March 27th in Detroit, 28th in Cincinnati, and then the whole rest of the tour after that. Get your tickets now. Boston, I guess there's a few more tickets they have there.

Really? Apparently, there's some singles. I don't know. Check out Boston. If you're looking for tickets, I don't know. I think you can get a couple right now. And get your tickets for New York and make, because they're going fast, too. Also, that second Portland show is almost sold out.

So the second Portland show, if you want to make it, get to that right now. Lots of fun there to be had. Thank you guys so much for snatching those up. Thank you for supporting the live shows. They're so much fun, and I promise you guys we're going to have a great time. We'll give it our all. There's no fucking doubt about that. We will throw down. If you want to get a hold of us on social media so you can find out about things before we say them on the show, you can do that very easily.

Also, you can follow us at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, and at Small Town Murder on Instagram. You can do that. Or just email us at, which is crimeandsports at gmail.com. There you go. I'm like, that's not how you say email addresses that's not how that shit works uh if you want to be a producer one of our heroes these people are heroes we're going to talk about it and wait till you hear how we discuss them trust me we they're heroic to us our patreon people and our paypal people if you want to be

one of those people our producer very easy to do. Head over to Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports or go over to PayPal and use our email address, Crime and Sports at Gmail dot com. And you can very easily do that. And we're going to have lots of Patreon bonuses. I think next week we're going to do a Patreon bonus for Small Town Murder. I'm going to do an episode. It'll be fun stuff. Kind of those Patreon ones are ones that are a little too short for the main show, but stories are so crazy that, God damn it, we need to tell the story.

They're chunky. We've got to say it. Yeah, I have a story. A woman tried her own cremation, we'll just say, and it didn't work. And indoor. It's hilarious. So it's a crazy story. We'll get to that shit.

But do that. That's at the $5 level. And without further ado, I can't take it anymore, Jimmy. Please hit me with these people. I need you to hit me with the people who we love and who are going to get to hear really funny episodes. Hit me with them, Jimmy. This week's executive producers are Cameron Cushwara, the brain damage enthusiast fantasy football league, The Brain Damage Enthusiast Fantasy Football League wrapped up, and the winners were some other teams. I didn't write those down, to be honest with you.

I'm full disclosure around here. I like it. Another executive producer, Karen Porciello, that Holly Davidson, the one that sounds like somebody named her Harley Davidson. They didn't name her that. That's actually her married name. So she used to be something else. Adrienne Thomas, and she said go Niners, obviously, because her old man worked with her.

Yeah, we love her. She's great. Tanya Volanek, and I'm rooting on them, too. Me, too. They've got an Italian quarterback, so I'm rooting on them. And I like Mahomes. Mahomes is great, but I'm getting a Guinea quarterback.

I just want the Niners to win. Jordan Bennett and then Shannon Russell, obviously. Thank you guys so much for everything you do for us. We can't thank you enough. Other producers this week are Mikkel Kennedy, Marianne and Jeff Aiken, Michael Haven, I think, yeah, Haven, Logan Henneman, Becky Estes, Marissa, no, that's Melissa, Melissa Winkler, Meredith King, Joel or joelle

okumu uh jenny smith jennifer hanley uh taylor seaman that's unfortunate uh kaylee stillians that's her she's thrilled she's fine kaylee stillians and that's her maiden name i forgot to write down her married name sorry kaylee that's my mistake uh kelly with no last name uh joe no julia julia julia hardenberger yeah ham is that hamburger no that is definitely we'll go with harden pardon uh peter peter canter can't oh cantor that's what that is matthew car car oh shit carl johan larson uh david tuzolo tuzolo uh doug faye bridge no brooke brookeale, Victoria with no last name, Ashley Rowland, Luke Benfield, Marcy, or Marchie? It could be a guy.

It's probably Marcy. It's probably Marcy. Right. M-A-R-C-I. Yes. Bromis. Daniel Arthurs, Matt Olson. No, Owens.

Michelle Stevens. Alexis Westerhaus, Brittany Gore, Lori, Lori Joseph, Courtney Teter, Tertralt, Casper Pouncey, Kayla, no Kayla, Kayla Beach, Courtney Tetra, oh, I said that, Alicia Campbell, Amanda McConnell,. Anderson, Eric Darnell, Mel Jays. Yes. Okay. Refocus. I feel like I've had a bunch of cocaine. I'm trying.

Jesse Pitts, Hannah Brock, Melissa Chapman, Melissa Butler, Nathan Nolte, Janine Cladd, Jennifer McIntosh, Katie Lundquist, Kelly Peterson, Maddie Garrett, Megan Boris. No, Borels. Boreys. That's it. Jorbert. Jerobert. Jerobert Green.

Is that what I wrote? Amanda Hirsch, Dustin Locke, Dwayne Ryle. Rice. Sorry, Dwayne. Evan Van Deventer. Yeah, him too. Christian Cobra. That's the coolest fucking name.

That's a cool name. It's a wrestler, I think. I don't know. I hope so. He should be if he's not. Jesus. Or she. Christian Cobra.

I don't know what it is. Christian Cobra. That's badass. That's a name. Gleana. Cobra. Gleana Tompkins. Take your shirt off.

Put these overalls on. Brittany Francibus? Franci... Franca... What is that? Francifris? Franciapocris? Franciapocris?

Franciapocris? Franciapocris? Franciapocris? Franciapocris? Franciapocris? Franciapocris? Franciapocris? Franciapocris?

Franciapocris? Franciapocris? Franciapocris? Got it. What is happening? We're not even close. No. Tyler Baldwin? Wow. Lindsey Martin martin oh samsonite i got it there you go right uh lindsey martin nicole curtis uh teeterbriss no tater nuts tater nuts

fleming that's legit that's really what i wrote down that's beautiful and tyler musburger no bus nuss bomber uh rebecca wards not brett musburger rebecca worlds uh what did i do woods uh okay you are fucking struggling ariana with no last name john mccarthy i don't know why i wrote these so small i don't write like this what did i do what do you it's one name per line no matter know. No matter if we're going to squeeze extras in there. What are you doing? Abriana Van Hoose, Montana Keeg, Luis Dominguez, TJ McCollum, Shelly Skillern, Kate, no, Naley, or Haley, Haley Irwin, Ashley, I'm not doing this again like this, Ashley conrad jeanette selphin uh jason ventry melissa rowler uh adrian ramey ramey uh elise pantino i think mike johnson home stretch and i wrote this one bigger

bobby martin david carrington clay thorson who sent us an unbelievable gift thank you clay you're a fucking hero uh gerald fleming jeremiah man Michael Brett, Thomas Smith, Jemma Gilbertson, Tasha Watson, Cody Chrome or Chromie, Patrick Lau, Augustine Martinez, Desiree Norman, Janice Hill, Sidney Steele, Sarah Acosta, Dina Grimes, April Moreno, Dylan Irish, Amanda Knight, L'Oreal Mitchell. That is fucking L'Oreal and Paul Mitchell marrying. Hey. Devin Holdsworth.

Lisa Dunton donated for her mom, Ann Dunton, who passed away just like two months ago. Oh, we're sorry about that. I'm so sorry. Thank you so much. Keith Foster donated both ways. Thanks, Keith. Ashley Veo. Jennifer Plague, I think.

Plaguey. Devin Holdsworth, Haley Garina, Gary Howard. Thank you very much, Gary. He started a podcast, too. Good for him. I appreciate you, Gary. John Bettencourt, Jamie Knight, Douglas Cordy, Alicia Oakden,

Ronnie Kumar, James LaRussa, Stephanie Mears, Lindsay Powis, Sonny Johansson, Andrea Strapaluso? Strapalos Strapuloso, Andrea Kalkins also, Tamika Fane-Lovett, Corbin Brown, Amanda Rutherford, Kristen with no last name, Courtney Brand, Caitlin Ballantyne, Jackie Sukup, Kate Graham, Amanda Cassidy, Crystal Walker, Jesse Hartman, Robin Anderson, James Marder, Kevin Coffey, Dan and Perry, no, Dan Perry and Aaron, Aaron Perry, right? Yes.

Okay. I think so. Susanna Platt, Rosemond Gatt, Iron Tree Craftworks, Aaron, no, that's Andrew Ebel, Jeff Rash, Kelly Higby, Peyton Meadows, Ben Saulnier, Douglas Porter, Reagan Shelkley, John Rogers, Autumn Uplinger, and Jude Kendall. Thank you guys so much for everything that you do. Thank you. And there's a guy with a kid in the fucking ICU, man.

Jesus Christ. And it's brutal. But we donated to him. GoFundMe is up on my page if you want to take a look at it. Yeah, do that. Thank you guys so much for everything you do. Go get him, Jackson. Kick its ass.

Thank you, everybody, from the bottom of our hearts, man. You guys are awesome. Thank you for keeping our show alive and kicking and going and supporting everything we do, supporting the live shows, Patreon, everything. You guys even are enthusiastic

about getting products from our sponsors because you want to support the show, and thank you for doing that. You guys are just the best. What if someone wanted to tell you you were the best, Jimmy? You can support me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks

on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. And I truly appreciate all of you guys. Thank you. Where can they find you? You can find me at JimmyPIsFunny or you can just copy and paste my last name from the show description.

First and last name would probably be helpful. And do it that way. Save yourself some misspellings either way do that follow us keep coming back

every single damn week because we're not going to go anywhere no we can't do this we can't do we can't go anywhere and with that said until next week everybody

it's been our pleasure bye Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.