Small Town Murder - #159 - You Can't Dismember Your Problems in Florence, Arizona

Episode Date: February 20, 2020

This week, in Florence, Arizona, one of the craziest stories we've ever had unfolds in just as weird of a way. A troubled man ruins every opportunity he has to turn his life around, and ends up committing a truly unthinkable crime against the one person who he could trust. There is a jaw dropping reason why, in addition to his theories of psychology, and his belief that you can teach a dog to do truly remarkable things! It's as wild as it sounds!! Along the way, we find out that prisoners make pretty boring neighbors, that dogs are apparently capable of paperwork, and that you should always check to see if that last finger rolled behind the toilet!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Florence, Arizona, people become suspicious when a man starts asking around town if anyone could use some extra bones for their dogs, but they never expected a story like this to be the answer.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us on another wild... This is is a crazy i can't even get it out with a straight foot this is an insane episode right it's just so weird and crazy and it's what we have few

in our in our lexicon that really stand out as like extra crazy that people always refer to and when new listeners come in they'll ask you know uh you know we'll establish listeners which episode should i start with and they're like this one this one and this one we feel like this is going to be right up in there with uh this is crazy in the top five i would say right of just insanity here wild wild stuff but before we get to that uh would like to thank everybody for the reviews this week if you haven't done it yet please do that uh apple podcast the purple icon give us five stars and say whatever you want there. Also, Stitcher, do it on there, too. It helps a lot.

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we don't have to go very far so that's nice for us oh but people have asked we can't say the date yet i don't think the date or the place i don't know if we can say that i think we'd say the place it's gonna be tepe improv yeah yeah it's gonna be great that's you know kind of one of the places we started out as comics so fucking awesome doing our stuff there so we cannot wait to go there and just blow that place out it's gonna be fun fun so get your shit and come there and meet us a lot of fun stuff we cannot wait um also you can if you want to be a huge hero of ours of course you can be one of our producers who we're going to gush about, as always, at the end of the show.

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Everybody, it's a comedy show. We're going to make jokes. All the facts are real. Nothing's made up or anything like that to make jokes out of. We're going to make jokes about things. Trust me, there's funny things that go on around murders. It's not just about the murder. It's just the way it is. What we are going to do, though, we're going to go out of our way to not make fun of the victims or the victims' families.

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Go. Unsubscribe. You don't want to hear the show, probably. You don't like us. If you never want to hear a joke around anything, then you shouldn't listen to the show because it's a comedy show. So buckle up for that. But if you want to have a good time and enjoy yourself and hear a crazy story, which you're going to hear, then I think it's time that you sit back, relax, and shout, Shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, Jimmy. Great. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Okay. It's not very far. No. Finally, man, we've been traveling. The last two weekends, we have just been run ragged.

Four cities in two weekends. Delayed flights. Delayed flights, weather, fog, snow. Mechanical issues. Just Indianapolis in general. Just being Indianapolis. God damn it, man. Indianapolis.

Their motto should be Salt Lake City without the mountains. You know that thing that everyone comes to that they like? The rest of the city doesn't matter. We don't have that. We do have this, though. This is here. This is here. But great people, though.

Awesome crowd. Same weather. Same weather. Awesome crowd. As we always say a lot of times, worse the city, better the crowd. And Indianapolis, you guys have not let us down. They definitely live up to that. Terrible city and a great crowd.

So thank you so much for coming out and seeing us. We're going to Florence, Arizona. Oh, right down the road there. It's about an hour away from here. It's in South Central Arizona. It is a dump, by the way, if you're not from here. You might think of Arizona. Oh, it's nice.

It has mountains. Yeah, Florence doesn't look like that. Florence looks like, remember when Bugs Bunny would be like burrowing towards something and he would pop up and he says he should have made a left at albuquerque he's in florence every time he's just like this is this shit this isn't where i wanted to be this is not it at all that's it right here florence so it's about an hour uh to phoenix if you want to just go north to somewhere much, much better. And Phoenix sucks. It does. To say that, it's something.

Or you can go an hour and 20 to Tucson, which is still better than Florence, and Tucson is awful. So not too bad here. Or you can go four hours and 10 minutes over to Lake Havasu City. Yeah. It's our last Arizona episode

way over on the western side of the state there, which was in May of 2019. Wow. It doesn't seem that long ago, it was it was a while ago here it's down in panal county it is you might recognize if you watch live pd that's the one they're always at in arizona there where it looks like shit where you're like wow it looks terrible yeah that's panal county that's where this is it's not great stuff they have the the sheriff with the big cowboy hat who's like personally at making traffic stops. You're like, where are we? And then also blackmailing his immigrant boyfriend.

Is that the same guy? Anybody, anybody who has to like be elected shouldn't be out making traffic stops on his own. You have other things to do. It's a bigger office than that. I don't know. It's just crazy. This is a huge area, Florence, because there's nothing there so who cares you can have here have a bunch of it right all the blots are like an acre and a half who cares it's

a bunch of shit desert i want some flat hard dirt there you go it's not even like sand that you could build a castle out of it's just hard dirt well the place that where they have the met the festival used to be a farm and now it's just kind of compact like packed down dirt from all the people walking around that's all it is and you can't farm it unless you got like a a super road hotel welcome to florence uh the motto here it's a prison town right that's most of the population consists of prisoners uh there's several prison complexes here it's pretty much where arizona sends everything that they don't want to have around right uh yeah it's bad it's got the you know death row and everything there uh so the town motto uh come for the dirt stay for the prison so who doesn't want to be there right

sounds wonderful uh history of this place j Christ. It was founded in 1866. We'll buzz through the history because there's some funny stuff in the reviews and shit here. So, founded by a guy named Levi Ruggles. Ruggles. Ruggles. And they named it Florence. And they named it Florence. I wish it was Ruggles, Arizona.

Yeah. He assembled some land. Levi Ruggles, Arizona. Even Levi. It laid out a town, which was south of the Gila River. He got the idea because Indians had farmed there for centuries. He was like, this might be a good place, considering how well... It looks great.

They've been farming the shit out of this. It's like going to San Francisco and going, I think I should put some roots down here. I have an idea. It's out there, but this is a pretty place. I think people might want to come here. It's pretty nice. People have already got an idea. It's out there, but this is a pretty place. I think people might want to come here. It's pretty nice. Yeah, people have already got that idea. That's why an apartment's $3 million, idiot.

So, yeah, they had been there for a long time, and then Mexican people came in in about the 1850s and started farming there as well. And Florence was founded in 1866. It's the sixth oldest non-Native American settlement in Arizona. Yeah. Sixth oldest. Yeah. Once you get out of the top five, does it matter really at that point? I guess out of the top three, really.

Honestly, yeah, probably. But I mean, if you really are grasping for something like Florence, other than we have a big prison, if you're looking for something, I guess, if you're in the top five, but six, it's like, okay, whatever. Give me a break here. So the people here re-dug the, there was old canals from prehistoric canals from the Sonoran Desert people there they used to irrigate their fields.

Was it the Hohokams or the Hopis? I don't know. A long ass time ago. So they re-dug these canals and tried to irrigate the agriculture because it's hard dirt. So you need water. And if it's already started, why not just continue? That's the thing here. They found silver here in 1877, and that made people come there for a minute, obviously.

Made it a boom town for a second. Until the three, four ounces were gone. Yeah, that tombstone part two over here. It's not great. I'm there for a minute, obviously. We made it a boom town for a second. As a lot of three, four ounces were gone. Yeah, that tombstone part two over here. It's not great. Never got a railroad here through it. Never got the railroad they wanted back then. And then finally, silver prices dropped in the 1890s. Yeah.

And once that happened, it was all over. Yeah. The silver prices are down. We're all leaving. Fuck this. It's not worth shit. Not worth shit. Why am I going to mine it? Yeah. The silver prices are down. We're all leaving. Fuck this. It's not worth shit? Not worth shit. Why am I going to mine it?

People are finding it everywhere. The more the West was explored, it was like, this shit's all over the place. I'm looking, it's everywhere. Now the gold's still hard to find. This silver shit's all over.

It's just I got handfuls of it. I don't know. I gave it to this lady to touch me. I don't know. She wouldn't even take it. I said, well, it didn't work. That's what was going on in the 1890s. She said no, so I don't think it gave it to this lady to touch me i don't know she wouldn't even take it i say what didn't work that's what was going on in the 1890s she said no so i don't think it's worth anything if she won't take it to touch me then it's worthless right is that the rule we're living

by now yeah that's how it worked in the 1890s basically i think that's the how the economy as far as i know i'm not an economic expert as you know but from what i can gather in the 1890s that's the way the economy works basically will you touch me for this that's what that's the way they figured out what was worth money how much of this will it take to get you to touch that's what it was and it was oh that's too much i can't even carry that in my pockets and then it was you know that's not worth a lot that's how they would do it they started out with coal and they were like i don't want that okay how about this warm silver now finally got to gold they're like this is the one i think the little one she likes it back then that's all there was so uh there was a woman

named eva duncan who was convicted of killing a tucson rancher named arthur mathis and she was the first woman to be executed in the prison at Florence. No kidding. Isn't that nice? Yeah. And also the last person to be hanged there as well. First woman was the last person to be hanged. Last one to be hanged. How about that?

It's very interesting. They switched to lethal gas after this because her head was severed during her hanging. Now it makes sense. Her head popped off and they were like, oh, Jesus. This is probably bad. We can't do that again. Yeah. When the crowd went oh

shit that was a headless woman it was like an n1 video that someone did a reverse dunk on somebody oh shit people ran out of the room came back they were like okay then we got to stop this shit they were like it's not okay people's eyes bugging out oh damn too much then that's no good that's a world star yeah that's no good if the head's popping off that's bad stuff that looks bad well i can see why yeah i mean that's fucking horrifying especially a woman like a dude that's like a piece of shit yeah they probably get horse even some bitch on his neck yeah they did a woman's like oh god oh jesus that's somebody's mother her hairdo rolling away nobody wants wants that. That's not okay.

Good Lord. We misjudged it by the weight of her tits. Oh, damn it. We didn't weigh them. So this town continued to be kind of a disaster. They were completing the courthouse and ran out of money. Oh. So they built these clock towers, and instead of installing actual clocks, they ran out

of money, so they just painted hands on the clock faces. Get the fuck out of here. So it's always 1144 in Florence, because they can't afford clock mechanics. Who settled on that fucking number? How about, yeah, right before lunch. I like that. 16 to high noon. You're still working, but you can taste, you can just taste that beef and cheddar in your future.

That 15-minute lunch break is at 1145, so we'll infinitely keep them working. They'll always be working, but have that hope. It's always almost time. Almost. It's almost time. Almost there. Keep going. This is the type of thing we're dealing with rural arizona it's not good man it's it's as bad as kentucky we made fun of kentucky a lot last

week just as bad just as terrible uh 1912 they became arizona became a state and the silver mine closed right around then too so that wasn't great um other towns were kind of growing and uh you know the uh phoenix was growing tucson was growing and then there was really nothing for florence it was just prison that was all that was good for it uh they tried to do other things um tried to do other industries and the president of the florence industrial development authority said quote florence doesn't have a labor force, which is a problem. They just have a bunch of people in prison and working at the prison.

So not a lot you can really do. In 2005, they tried to minimize the image of, quote, prison city. So they were like, all right, how do we do this? So they said they needed what they called more prominent signage is needed to direct traffic headed for downtown uh at the at in that direction at earlier opportunities so when people get close to

florence like hey head this way not that way yeah don't look at the prison there's downtown we have stuff here stay on this road there's a dairy queen we just put it in it's amazing you're gonna let no it doesn't have burgers it's not that one it's It's not that one. It's just ice cream, but it's good. It's hot here, so don't worry about it. They have nine different facilities there, prison facilities in Florence. There are nine? From juvenile to death row. Everything.

Wow. You could literally in Arizona, you know, be locked up as a child and kind of spend your whole life there in and out and end up on death row and be killed there in Florence. Yeah. What the shit? It's pretty shitty. I had no idea. And kind of spend your whole life there, in and out, and end up on death row and be killed there in Florence. What the shit? It's pretty shitty. I had no idea. Yeah, neither did I. They kind of just ignore that.

They're trying to get you to go downtown, Jimmy. That's the problem. My Christ, I thought it was just the Supermax was there. Yeah, so did I. I didn't have any goddamn idea there, but it's huge. Men officially in Florence outnumber women five to one um obviously don't worry if you're a dude in florence you're with all the dudes anyway that's the thing uh they had of their population less than half was actual residents and not prisoners less than half of their yeah but the towns are allowed to claim the population really for that's why they're that's

why towns have prisons otherwise nobody would let you build a town but if you can claim the prison population then you get money for that based on your population wild and you don't you know it's a prison population i think i just learned that yeah it's it's i know i just there's a lot of there's a lot of reasons that states have to not not to mention there's for-profit prisons in florence too so it's there's a lot of there's a lot of reasons that people have money-wise to keep people in prison. So that's a thing, you know, definitely. So I have reviews of this place that obviously are wonderful here. Here's a review.

This is wonderful. Quote, I live in Desert Gardens RV Resort. Oh. Right away. Right away I live in an RV resort Resort. Oh. Right away. Right away, I live in an RV resort. So we have an issue immediately. And want to let you know that while the town of Florence is mostly vacant, it could become a very nice historical town. If all the vacant buildings would be filled with businesses, we could have, capital letters, could have a nice looking town that all capitals could attract more tourists and people to live in our town.

The prisons that are located here do not matter one iota to me. Well, they do to other people. That's why they don't move there. Right. That's what it is. So it's a town. There's no business with mostly prisoners. Yeah, that's OK.

I'm all right there. But currently, our town looks like a ghost town. Then all capital letters. We need a strong supermarket. I guess I don't have a week one you got a weak one a weak soup a weak supermarket this town's its name of this episode is going to be super weak supermarket in florence arizona uh they also quote a couple of big name stores a movie theater the closest one is 40 minutes away. Jesus Christ. Physicians, all specialists are an hour plus away. Retiring here is very difficult, which is why we must keep our status as snowbirds.

Otherwise, we'd move here full time. We don't see that in our lifetimes because this town is too dead. There's other places in Arizona that are way better than that. There is. Go to Flagstaff, son. And then somebody else. Yes, well, it's cold up there you don't retire up there someone else here uh summed it up very succinctly rather than all that they just said quote and that by the way there's a one-star review here's

another one star very short quote we have nothing around us have to drive everywhere basically what that guy was saying yeah but less wordy right so there you go cut the fat out of it cut the fat out of it he's like you know what here if we take a punch that review up okay we first of all tops and bottoms gone and then let's see what we got in the middle uh this is the this is the nut of it here i can do it in 13 words let's do it boom done one two three four five yeah six i could do it in nine i got it oh wait one star 11 of course sorry so uh the population here has grown steadily, but then it exploded after 1990, which anyone that has lived in Arizona knows.

In 1990, it's like people discovered that it was a state, and the population shot up. It went from a million people in 1990 to like 5 million by 2000. It's obscene. So here, the population currently 26,066 people. It is up 247% since 1990. Wow. 247%. So that tells you something.

Yeah. And that's, by the way, that's prisoners. Of course. Yeah. Let's put more people in jail. There's a lot of that shit. So male population, 76 percent, which is a little high. All the kid demographics are like half.

Everybody is 25 to 34. That's the thing, because those are people who work and go to prison. Yeah. So there you go. Got men who are 25 to 34. Married populations like a third. So it's usually half here. It's a third.

Single with no children, 7.8%. So even that's low, even though there's mostly single people. They all have children now, which is interesting. Race of this town, 47.7% white, 6% black, which is high for an Arizona townzona town i would say 0.4 percent asian okay a lot of asians in prison or working in a prison apparently uh just based on the statistic 3.6 percent native american which is higher than the average but you know it's arizona so that's normal and uh 40.5 percent hispanic how about that so and yeah very hispanic Hispanic religion here. Twenty four or basically twenty five percent of the people are religious, which is like half the norm. It's just some Baptist, 12 percent Catholic.

Catholics are the Baptists of the Southwest, the hot of the desert south southwest. You know, 40 percent Mexican. You're going to get a lot of a lot of Catholics here. Zero point zero percent Jewish. Like, I Catholics here. 0.0% Jewish. I don't think so. Jewish people don't, not a huge thing in Jewish families. I grew up in New York a lot,

around a lot of Jewish families. There's not a big push to, I want you to work in the prison system. It's not a huge push from the family there. I want you to own a few prisons. That would maybe, or something. I don't know. Is that an Andrew Jackson?

It might be. I think you were. I think, ladies and gentlemen, I think you went Andrew Jackson on there. He was trying to compliment, but in a way that wasn't great. They're not going to work in the prison. Yeah, you were like, I mean, a black guy can just dunk. I was like, that's basically what you said. I'm like, yeah, I mean, maybe it's true and maybe it's this or that, but probably just didn't

sound right. So let's. I mean, a black guy that's probably 6'4 could probably dunk. We'll put that in your pocket. And anybody with a bunch of money can probably pretty much own a prison. That's the thing. Doesn't necessarily have to be a Jewish guy. No, no, probably not, as a matter of fact.

So, yeah, I would say we'll put that one in our pocket. Last election, people who are allowed to vote, because, you know, a lot of these people are felons. 37% Democrat, 56% Republican, 7% independent here. Unemployment rates here is actually pretty high, 5.9%. I don't know if I don't think the prison population counts in that. No, I wouldn't. They're all unemployed. Yeah, technically.

I mean, they're employed in the prison, I guess. Depends on how much money they're making that you consider employed. They're not making minimum wage. They're not gainfully employed. They're not making anything. Median household income here, the national average is about $57,500. Here it is $47,000. So it's about $10,000 low.

Way less people make over $100,000 here. People make what you make working in a prison. It's a lot of like 30 to 60 grand. They probably have good health coverage and shit like that. And then if there's retirees, that's a fixed income usually. There's generally not many that are making over 100 grand that are retired. Yeah, no, totally. The jobs here, it's a lot of prison.

Like public administration, which is what prison, I guess, is considered. It's usually about 4% in a place. here it's a lot of prison like public administration which is what prison i guess is considered it's usually about four percent in a place here it's 26 okay so that's what it is cost of living 100 being regular average par here it is about 96 and uh the housing is about a 93 so it's pretty close to average which that's way too expensive to live in that shithole yeah are you kidding me it's a piece of garbage the only reason to live there would be like well it's way cheaper than anywhere else you know so what the hell but you could get a house in phoenix for the same price as there it makes no sense why i guess i guess people are like otherwise you've got to drive out to tucson or fuck what else globe where else would you live it's tucson phoenix anywhere but florence if you're east

mesa and apache junction you're better off living in florence gold canyon i don't know there's some areas out there that florence though no no no if you work at the prison though and you don't want to have to commute too goddamn far no it's true you're almost forced to live if you work at the prison you have to live there but other people retiring there are you joking you're living there but where could where do you want to go, Martha? I don't know. It's Minnesota's too cold for us here to live. Be in the winter.

How about Florence? No, there's anywhere else to go anywhere. A median home costs two hundred sixteen thousand dollars here. And if you we've convinced you, I don't know how you want to commit a felony and be put away in prison. We have for you the Florenceorence arizona real estate report your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about a thousand twenty dollars a month which again too high for here uh four i found a four-bedroom two bedroom two bath 1528 square foot house it's pretty plain

nothing fancy about it nothing you know kitchen's pretty plain all that kind of shit but you know it works yeah uh was it 169 990 dollars you get here that's what i mean it's just not the prices aren't great i found a three bedroom two bath 1253 square foot house it's on 1.25 acres oh yeah it's bleak as shit it's you can see your whole property from one spot and it's just flat dirt and there's it's not inspiring at all you'd so could people move around in this because it's just i feel yeah too open it's super weird 202 and two thousand dollars and then i found a four bedroom two bath maybe you're the warden of the prison 2872 square foot wow stretched out a little pretty much the nicest house in town 1.25 acres of dirt uh four hundred and fifteen thousand dollars

to live in florence enjoy that everybody no thank you uh things to do here uh go to prison yeah of course one obviously yeah or go to the uh junior parada and rodeo oh oh yeah it's like parada parada is a spanish parade i don't know if that's a spanish parade or if that's a it's the junior parada parade so that would be very repetitive. The Parade Parade? The Junior Parade Parade and Rodeo. Come to the Parade Parade. And Rodeo.

And Rodeo. By the way, there's a rodeo. There's a children's rodeo here, which that doesn't seem safe. What is it? I don't know. Do people put their kids on animals that are trying to fuck them off? That doesn't seem right. They probably live in that lifestyle anyway.

So they're probably shod those fucking animals. That seems like you would probably be arrested for some sort of child neglect if you like encourage your child to do that in front of a group and then collected money for it. That's not some sort of crime. If you put like a catcher's face mask on them, then you're OK. Put some football shoulder pads on them. give them a jersey and a helmet. I don't know. They probably still got baby teeth.

That's nature's little second chance. That's true. It's fine. We'll see what happens. No problem. So the rodeo is presented by the Pinal County Mounted Posse. So probably the cowboy hat guy will be there, I'm sure. The historic downtown Main Street Parade will feature a variety of floats.

So I don't know what kind of floats they're gonna have down there the rodeo entry fee is ten dollars per car load how many can we fit in the car pile camino fit everybody pile in we're going to the parada parade a parade a parada parada rodeo that would By the carload. As many as you can get in that goddamn car. Or $5 with a non-perishable food item. So you could presumably... You could legitimately pack everybody you know into a pickup truck with a can of green beans. And bring a can of beans. Five bucks.

Five bucks will get 14 people in. That's awesome. And yeah. What do you want to bet there's somebody that brings an rv every year i'm sure thanks carload big smile then the mounted posse is gonna host a steak fry no gross that sounds like a terrible way to make a steak why would you not well yeah no you can sear it on a pan it's very good if you know what you're doing but i don't want a bunch of fucking mounted police frying my steak up i feel like there's grills everywhere it's arizona have an

outdoor grill thing what are you doing making a cowboy poor shit i think it's time to delete the word posse from uh yeah i don't want any posses it's just silly english language it just sounds dumb it sounds kind of like they're pretending well it makes it sound like they're 12 year olds pretending and i get that they're doing a job and all that but it sounds like you kind of like they're pretending. Cowboys. Well, it makes it sound like they're 12-year-olds pretending. And I get that they're doing a job and all that, but it sounds like you'd be like, we're forming a posse. Okay, I'll be this one. I'll be that one. Yay.

It either sounds like you've got a cap gun on your hip or you're going to just get minorities. Yeah, either way. We want a more respectful title for them rather than posse because that just sounds silly. We don't feel like that's good. What's the matter? You uncomfortable with militia because that's what you that's what it feels like yeah it feels like sworn in militia it's like it's like pretend militia almost so they have a uh music festival also the florence music festival yeah here uh people in this there's you can get a gate pass or a dry camping pass gross which makes me think immediately of dry humping did you not think dry

humping pass no you absolutely did i think dry camping sounds just dusty it's 60 to dry hump so dry camping is 60 here they're gonna have a classic rock one night with curtain rod uh the rj band hold on just who knows that pun of curtain rod curtain curtain and Ron. It's yeah. Oh, no. I those two trying to great glaze over the RJ rim job band rocking blue geckos, which that sounds like old men Dawson Green Party of six. Stop it.

Swear to God. And then it's country music night the next night with harry luge which sounds like i don't even know sounds like he's calling it a luge ryan and the renegades the highway outlaws and uh back roads i hate all of these people that sounds god awful sounds awful but it's 60 to dry hump there so enjoy that and uh crime rate what we're interested in this in this whole thing here property crime is less than half the national average under under half it's not a lot going on because everyone all the criminals are locked up it's just it's all prison that's also where they do country thunder by the way and that is the most disgusting that's the

other i didn't want to bring that up to it several times yeah we've brought up country thunder on another one so you want to get in. That's where it is. It's awful. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is also not even half the national average. So it's a pretty safe town as long as no one escapes. Right. As long as those locks stay shut.

As long as everything works out there, it's pretty safe. I mean, it's a tenuous safe. It's like living right next to a nuclear plant. I mean, it's super safe. It's a a tenuous safe yeah it's like living right next to a nuclear plant it's like i mean it's a it's super safe it's a lot of security and i mean you could be just fucking incinerated to ashes and three it could happen you know possible i mean probably not but you know they're probably not gonna have a huge prison break either but if it happens you're in deep shit i think i'd rather be by a nuclear plant yeah i'm pretty sure i figure an hour it's like 65 miles.

People will just die before they get to Phoenix. You know, before they get. I live in North Phoenix. It's going to be a while before they get here. Yeah. They'll be very few. You'll be able to see them. They'll be straggling.

They'll be straggling. It's going to be a rough time getting up here. But if you live right in Florence, you're done. So let's talk about a murder. What do you say? It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts this is crazy first of all we we just i don't even know what to say let's

dive right into it no no need to preface this with anything other than buckle up fuckers because it's coming it's coming here come the pain uh wow okay let's talk first about a guy uh he's born robert conger yeah c-o-n-g-e-r in tucson arizona boy oh boy a boy born in tucson june 4th 1948 he's born and uh 1948 in tucson is that's bleak that ain't easy tucson sucks now yeah and it's still like you're like where the fuck what is happening here i can't imagine what it was like in the 40s because phoenix was hardly anything up until the 70s and 80s so 40s in tucson is just bleak man 40s air conditioning james 40s not an air conditioner 40s airstream trailer because his his life was not his early life probably had very little air conditioning

from what i've gathered here uh his mother that he's born to is and this is described in a court document as this a quote 15 year old hard drinking prostitute hell yeah so that's uh wowza yeah in 1948 oh my 1948 so we're talking yeah that's you know pregnant when she's 14 right i mean born in the 30s born in the depression in tucson hard drinking which is prostitute yeah born and yeah that's yeah that's that's how the court describes her um so like i said not a lot of air conditioning probably i'm seeing an airstream yeah that might be tipped over a little bit you know it's not even straight right it's just a problem some sort of like uh place that nobody would inhabit and she I'm seeing an airstream that might be tipped over a little bit. It's not even straight. There's a problem.

Some sort of place that nobody would inhabit and the family's just like, this will do? Yeah. It's free. There's like a Studebaker that someone abandoned. It's some shit like that. This is some Eileen Wuornos type shit right here. But we never actually get the right away the father takes off too abandons the the mother and everything so apparently it was an actual boyfriend of hers and uh he ran away in the 40s

you could just run away right from this and that was there was there was no way to track him down he ran away and they were like well you shouldn't have got knocked up and it was like well you know you want to be a nun no i guess well fuck you then cheer up bitch that's what they tell him i guess it would be that sort of thing just Just not, let's help this girl. It was like, well, I guess you're a pariah now. Enjoy living on the edges of society. Get to work. Have a good one.

Yeah. Terrible. Oh, how old are you? Well, we couldn't possibly hire you. I guess you're a prostitute. Yeah. Enjoy. Life was tough for you back then if you were a that is horrific a young girl in this situation not good

at all for you and uh things went really really bad for him for her the bobby's mother because two years later when she's 17 years old she is in a car crash and breaks her neck and dies what at 17 so wow that was a quick life quick life man. 17, in and out like a flash. Holy shit. And we're talking, this is pre-seatbelts. Right. 1950 were pre-seatbelts, pre-safety, anything. She died in 1950?

19, two years, yeah. So, that car was probably a 1930. Or even, yeah, whatever. It wasn't new. If you hit something, you shot out the window like a lawn dart. Right. Period. That was it.

That car didn't crumple. Nope. All the energy went to that seat. Made of steel. Yep. Shot out the window or imp lawn door right period that was it that car didn't crumple no all the energy went to that seat made of steel yeah shot out the window or impaled in the steering wheel or or the gear shifter thrown from the car a lot of times people will just be thrown from cars because you know in roles and shit like that so yeah she has a broken neck and uh so that's him that's that's her she's gone so young bobby here at two years old yeah has no mother and the mother was having a tough time anyway so he is given to his grandparents uh to yeah his father his mother's parents to be taken care of and his father is a parent as regards grandfather his mother's father

is apparently just a menace to society uncontrollable lunatic alcoholic really that is just abusive and crazy to the point where the state removes him from the household and places him in foster care we're talking in 1950 tucson right where you could have done anything to your kids how crazy did you have to be to get a kid taken away back then how crazy you have to be for the government or whoever to hear about it to hear that's what i mean back then beating your kids was perfectly reasonable negligence you were nobody watched their kids there's yeah whatever come back before there was really very little ways to get your kids taken away somebody would have to find that child with like starving in the street with no clothes and scabs and a few flies yeah that was if they didn't look presentable down there, that's what's taking them away.

But you cover those bruises down there. He's devaluing the property. Yeah, you cover those bruises. That's what you do. Get them out there in the street where we can make something of those kids. So that's how bad his grandfather was, though. He's removed from the home, placed in foster care. I'm surprised that wasn't a stand-up gentleman uh who was not taking care of his young

daughter who strange it is needed to be a prostitute to support herself say a that his 14 year old daughter would be a quote hard-drinking prostitute shocking that he would be a complete pile of shit that didn't do anything for his kids that's you you would that's what i mean you'd see that and you go hmm probably something to do with her parents i don't think everything was good and she was just like i'm getting out of this stinking town i doubt that tucson tucson's mayor probably doesn't have this difficulty in his life that's that's what i'm saying um he is moved around um and we're talking he's you know not even two yet and he's being passed around to different foster homes, in and out of these different places, orphanages, things like that. And then he's adopted.

Great. Finally. He's adopted by two nice people, Henry Frederick Budd Mormon. Hell, yeah. Mormon, M-O-O-R-M-A-N. Mormon, I guess. Yeah. So, Budd here, and his wife, Roberta Maud Mormonormon okay his name's roberta they call her maude

yeah so bud and maude you've been adopted by bud and maude mormon now they don't sound like abusive no lunatics that's one good they sound pretty square here's your here's your opportunity yeah at anything that's what i mean you too but i mean obviously genetics are not on his side no they're not clearly with the alcohol heavy alcoholism and things like that but still bud and maude now uh they they took him in but henry or bud here bud was uh he was a little bit hesitant about the whole thing he wasn't quite sure that we should adopt this kid who's had problems and things like that but maude wanted wanted to take care of this kid sure and so maude and they took him in and uh they this was up in flagstaff oh they're flagstaff residents uh he had moved there uh bud had moved

there when he was in in uh in 1913 really up to flagstaff from where don't know where he's from but he was he was moved there in 1913 and opened up a taxi service and it was the city's only taxi service

up until the time he dies in 1967 monopoly so he had a monopoly of the taxi service up in Flagstaff so that's

they were an established family they were comfortably you know they weren't wealthy but they were comfortable. They were fine. Yeah, upper blue collar.

They can give to an underprivileged child. They could afford a baby. Yeah, it was one of those things. So they did. He ran the taxi service, and she worked for the government in some different ways, like city governments and things like that. She was a municipal worker here and there. But, yeah, he ran that. They took took him in um problems with him right away young bobby uh had an issue right away and he changes his name they keep robert as his name but they uh call him uh

mormon after them obviously he's he's robert henry mormon now they after the father too the adopted father so yeah they're trying to make him part of the family so he feels part of the family and the mother's name is roberta so it almost looks like they named him after him so it works out well so uh young bobby here has a lot of problems um he is classified as and this is again we have this is a term that's used uh sorry and especially in school and especially then. What year was this? This is the 50s.

He's classified as mentally retarded in school. That's what the school labels him. And back then, that's what they did. They might as well have stamped it on the kid's forehead. You're done. Yeah, that's it. Boom. Have that.

Just so that the teacher knows. Yeah, here he is. Watch out for this one. They were not caring. It was way different back then just a different thing they they they looked at kids like fruit and it was like there was a bruised bushel and there was a like like the crime and sports guy we had there was a bad bin yeah and they put them this one's in the bad bin and they just yeah it was not you

know the different kind of case and and the the uh attention paid i don't know the the length of time it took for them to diagnose somebody would misdiagnose people like crazy yeah probably uh fetal alcohol syndrome there's kids there feel alcohol syndrome kids back then how many autistic kids were labeled there's probably some brain damage yeah that's i mean yeah you never know why how many autistic kids had like some talent that was never tapped because they just didn't know that that you know that kid could have been a mathematical genius or something or he also might just be uh the child of a fucking child yeah that's the other thing child of a child we don't know he might be a little behind a little

slow but they label him as that obviously so he right away and they put him in special education classes which again back then were basically housing the kids. They weren't, it wasn't for, you know, they're going to catch up eventually. No, they just gave him the fat crayons and told him to sit in the corner. Yes. When he's 13, it gets worse for young Bobby here. He ends up being committed to a state mental hospital at 13. There's a reason. There's a reason.

hospital at 13 uh there's a reason there's a reason uh apparently he said he was he had a 22 caliber rifle and he was hiding it in his bed with him like under the covers and he said his mother came into the room and sat on his bed maud and uh when she sat on the bed he said he pulled the gun out to show it to her to say hey look at my at my gun. No. And it discharged. She didn't die. He just shot her. But he did shoot her. Oh, boy. She did have a bullet wound that needed to be treated, obviously. Jesus Christ.

And so he said it was an accident, though. And even the mom believed it was an accident. Everybody said it was an accident. But based on all of his issues leading up to this, and then now he's accidentally, quote, unquote, shooting his mom they were like let's go ahead and uh let's have some talks with him for a while yeah and back then too much more apt to put people in hospitals there was a lot of mental hospitals back then

of varying levels of of of uh care and varying levels of security and things like that there were some terrible ones and there was a lot of them yeah and then in the 80s they were and this is a terrible they shut down federal they lost federal funding for like all of them and that's well that's when we had a major home they were just released um you know rehomed them rehomed them on the sidewalk right is where they put them they're just like well closing the hospital down bye herb have a good one fucking kick some guy in a robe who's wandering around out on the street wearing one song what happened right in the 80s that's exactly what happened so but this is you know he's 13 he's 13 man yeah he's 13 this is 1961 right i mean this is the fucking beach boys are out and this guy's in a in a in a mental hospital 13 though too 13 forget

the the ah jesus think about when you were 13. Yeah, can you imagine? I mean, granted, he's traumatized from this. He's fucked up. He's ruined. And he's got zero head start. And matter of fact, he's just starting as really just such a handicap in terms of every advantage. It's all, he's got to play catch up before he gets, he's in the hole.

He's working with a debt. He's in the hole physically. He's in the hole he's working with a debt he's in the hole physically he's in the hole you know like uh genetically he's in the hole now everything he's now he's starting yeah when you get out of the mental hospital at you know 14 do you think anybody looks at you like okay let's start over right everything's gonna be fine they're all like oh it's that kid what'd you do last year in school well um actually i was in the mental hospital yeah didn't do much there. Great. Yeah, we mainly just played checkers and stuff. The fat crayons?

Yeah. I'll take them, sure. Here, give them to me. Hand them over. So 1967 now, this is, he's 19 years old. His dad dies, Bud dies. God damn. Yeah, Bud dies at 57, too.

So he's not even, you know, pretty young guy 57 and uh he's dead and they have a funeral for him and all that sort of thing in tucson and flagstaff okay so that's where they're at now that's where they're at they stay live in flagstaff his dad runs the thing in flagstaff the taxi service it's crazy to die that young yeah 57 i well back then too i mean he could have had who knows but knows. This is 1967. So nowadays, like a cancer that they could fix pretty, you know, get in remission pretty quickly. Especially if you get it early enough. He just died then. Well, it's over.

Well, look at you. Oh, well. That's a problem. Sorry, bud. What's your name? Bud. Oh, great. I nailed it.

Wonderful. Perfect. That's great. So, yeah, at this point, it doesn't help him any, too, that his father died. I guess Bud was a pretty good influence on him and a pretty solid figure in everybody's life. Nobody had any complaints about Bud. Bud wasn't abusive. Bud wasn't an alcoholic.

Bud wasn't any of those things. Bud wasn't any of those things. At this point in school, he was described by a teacher as a, quote, lonely adopted boy who always found it hard to make friends. So that's what he's about. And that's his life here. And, yeah, he said he had a hard time. He would try to get along with the other kids. The teacher said he would make attempts to befriend people but he was always rejected uh by everybody as as being slow sure he's slow and you were in the mental hospital

and you're crazy and you're weird and nobody likes you kids are vicious and back then nobody told kids not even it wasn't even like hey don't pick on that there wasn't any of that it was pick on that kid i mean if someone was weird you should pick on him that's how they thought of it in the fucking 50s it was it was like that that's i mean you could say whatever you want but that was the truth someone was different they got messed with a lot back then so uh he's obviously has some problems uh this this culminates uh to say the least in 1972 and now he's you know think about it he's getting up there in age i mean he's not a he's not a child anymore he's 24 years old and he's having he doesn't have the father anymore and he's a few years kind of mentally behind everybody and uh he apparently loses his way

also to his mother becomes very overprotective and very uh on top of him after his father dies it's kind of like she's what he had left and so she's gonna really he's what she had he's had what she had left and she's gonna and vice versa yeah but she's gonna hold on to him of course and so it became very overbearing everybody said and uh there's some just some rumors of weirdness between her and him and it's just a very weird relationship slow down ma too close a little too close is what the rumor is and everything now uh 1972 he it's he's in a parking lot and uh in in flagstaff right and he tries to abduct a woman what he tries yeah he tries to abduct a woman named What? He tries to abduct a woman named Shelly Mickelson.

Or a woman named, I don't know her first name. Her last name's Mickelson. She's got her eight-year-old daughter with her. Oh, no. He's got plans to abduct. And he wants to abduct and rape the mother. That's his plan, is what he says later on. That was the issue.

But the mother, he lost his nerve with the mother because she seemed a little too much for him, maybe, or he got scared, and so he just kidnapped the eight-year-old instead. Oh, Jesus. He just grabbed the eight-year-old and hopped in a car and drove away. This is...

Wow. Yeah, because he, yeah, the woman was, an adult woman was too intimidating for him. I don't believe it. Go on. Yeah, he said he took the eight-year-old instead. Well, apparently that was the thing. He went up to her and was trying to mess with the mother,

and the mother was not having any of it, so he just grabbed the kid and took off. Wow. And that was that. So what happened? Well, he holds her at gunpoint. By the way, this is at gunpoint, this whole thing. He takes off in a car, flees for Las Vegas.

Somewhere along the way, they stop in a couple different motels, and he sexually assaults this poor young girl, of course. Yeah, which is obviously horrific. And they keep driving toward Las Vegas. I don't know how many times he's stopping at hotels. It's like a three-hour, two-hour drive from up there to Vegas. Probably less than that. Less than that. Well, it might be three hours.

You've got to go through Williams and all that shit across the 40-kilometer east. And there's different highways back then, too. The highway system is not nearly as good back then, too. The roads suck and everything. So he ends up, at one point, pulling off the road to do something and getting the car stuck in some sand. It's the car stuck in dirt in Nevada. So he has to hitchhike with his kidnapped captive. Oh my God.

Yeah, so he is now hitchhiking and telling the girl he's going to shoot her if she says anything. So what they end up doing is a woman named Connie Jo Swanson, who's a Phoenix resident, her and her husband were driving their rv and they saw a man and a little girl shivering on the side of the road and it's a it's morning so even in the desert it's cold in the morning and it's in january right so it's cold as fuck it's cold as shit so these two are freezing out there so he it's two hours

south of las vegas they found him and the Swansons. So the couple picked them up and gave them food and stuff and put the girl to bed in the back of the motorhome and everything like that. Tried to take care of them and said they would drive them to Vegas because that's where they were going as well. This woman says, quote, the girl never said a word, apparently. Not a word. word kid doesn't say anything which is that's super strange yeah it's creepy there's something wrong there yeah okay little girls talk little kids talk oh my god my daughter they talk the blue street shut the fuck up yeah she'd be telling everyone we went in the thing and the dirt happened we got stuck and then

he did that and what's cold outside and i'm hungry do you have any you know goldfish there'd be a lot of questions i like milk chocolate or chocolate milk yeah therefish? There'd be a lot of questions. I like milk chocolate or chocolate milk. There'd be a lot of questions. I like hot chocolate. Something like that. So she thought it was very strange. And then she saw at one point, you know, she's sitting out, the little girl's laying down and the Swansons are sitting with Bobby out in the RV area, in the living room of the RV or whatever, the main area.

Yeah. And he takes out his pistol out of his waist and removes the bullets and puts them on the table on the home there. Yeah, he does that. So the woman here, Connie Jo, said, excuse me, could we put the gun in a drawer? It just makes me more comfortable if we just don't have it sitting on the table. We're just putting it in a drawer, and it's much better. So he said, sure, yeah, throw it in the drawer.

And he tells them, they said, so what's your, is that your daughter? Or what's the deal with the kid? And she said, no, no, no, it's a friend of mine's kid. And I was taking her, I was going to Vegas. And the kid is going to her uncle in Vegas. And I'm supposed to drive her up there. And we went off the road. And you can just drop us off, quote, anywhere in Vegas.

It's fine. And we'll find our way? Which is not specific. Yeah. How about the uncle's house? Right. That's a good spot. Or how about a main, take us to the whatever the hell.

Just anywhere. Any first street corner we find, you drop us off. We're going to be golden. So they said, sure. Anywhere will do. OK, good. How about the police station? Right.

That's right where they took them. Really? Yeah. They drove right to the police. Smart. They drove right to Vegas and said, no, we'll drop you off here. How about the police station? Right. That's right where they took them. Really? Yeah, they drove right to the police. Smart. They drove right to Vegas and said, no, we'll drop you off here. How about here? It's pulled up in front of the police station.

Is this a good place to drop you? Because something's fucking up here. Right. These people are awesome. This is great. Thank, good job. So they do. And the girl basically dropped them both out front and then drove around the corner where

they called a pay phone and said, hey, right outside. They called a pay phone and said hey right outside they found a pay phone and said hey right look outside right those people that little girl and explain the whole situation of them yeah go out there grab them up quick so uh they did the police walked outside and grabbed them and took them inside and had some questions obviously and bobby told them that he intended to leave the girl to die in the stuck car. That was his original plan. He told the Las Vegas police? Yeah, he tells them that, which is worse than what they thought. Oh, my God.

He goes, I was going to fucking just leave her to die, but she kept crying. So I said, fine, come with me. Wow. Literally, I mean, she just didn't want to just sit there and freeze to death. So he told them everything that he did? Yeah, he just said so. She kept crying. So I said, all right, fine. Come with me then.

And that's when they were hitchhiking. And he said, you know, he said, basically, if we weren't picked up soon, I was just going to kill her because I couldn't stand it anymore. She's complaining and it's cold and blah, blah, blah. So I was going to kill her. But then they pulled up and I said, all right, whatever. We'll go with them. And then lucky day, kid.

Yeah, yeah. That's the thing. And then he said, you know, then they picked us up at the motor home and I said, all right, whatever. We'll go with them. It's a lucky day, kid. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. And then he said, you know, then they picked us up at the motorhome. And I went, oh, cool. What I was going to do then, I figured I'd kill the family and just take the motorhome. That was my next plan. This is all stuff that he should probably keep to himself. Because it's not stuff he's in there for, but he's telling them, hey, it was supposed to be worse. I'm so creeped out by this guy.

Oh, yeah, he's like, I was going to kill the kid, but, you know, too lazy. It just didn't happen. Then the people, he was like, I was going to kill them. And they said, why didn't you kill them? And he said, quote, because they were too nice to me. So that was it. All you got to do is be nice to people now? Well, this guy, I feel like not a lot of people have been nice to him.

And he said they were real nice to me and I couldn't do it. He goes, I didn't want to do it because they were too nice. So this is apparently that's the key to this guy not killing you is you need to be friendly. I'm not sure. But obviously, this is a fucking problem. The girl has returned to her mother. She's OK. She goes on to lead a fine life and everything like that.

But Jesus Christ, they held him for a hundred thousand dollar bond. He's held on for kidnapping and sexual assault. Are they kidnapping him forever? This is harrowing. A $100,000 bond he's held on. For kidnapping and sexual assault, or do they even know that? It's for kidnapping, yeah. They know everything that happened. Oh, he admits everything that happened. He's not a guy that's going to deny what he does here.

He's not a guy that's going to deny, but the little girl's fine. She lives a fine life. Everything's good there. She's not necessarily fine, but she's alive. She's alive, is what I mean. He didn't kill her.

That's not the small-town murder. She's fucked up forever. Yeah, there's no way that anybody's psyche can get past something like that i mean even at eight years old when you have that kind of traumatic shit happen to you when she turns 16 and can process oh yeah or even earlier than that i don't know especially later she can process wait till she's 28 that this guy yeah is a terrible man he was gonna kill her too he's gonna kill her that's the other thing and she just every day is gonna have survivor's guilt and all kinds of other and everything else too because she's assaulted

in every way yeah terrible stuff here god jesus the prosecutor pushed for the quote highest bond possible and uh they apparently they ended up settling the judge sets uh settles on a hundred thousand dollars which is i mean the it's one of the biggest ones they've had it's 1972 it's a shitload of money a lot of money it's still far the biggest ones they've had. It's 1972. It's a shitload of money. It's a lot of money. It's still far too affordable. Yeah, well, not for him. He's like a kind of a semi-homeless guy. That's like $800,000 now.

It may as well be eight lifetimes to him. Yeah, it doesn't matter to him. Too much. All the dirt in the desert, you might as well have said to him, okay, I don't know how to gather that. How much silver you got? Shit, yeah, how much? It's going to be way more than you can afford

because you can't even get someone to touch you for that. So there was a hearing and all this sort of thing, and I guess the bond hearing was they had a bit of a fight about it, and the judge was just like, it doesn't matter, he can't afford 100 grand. What's the difference? So May 31, 72, he pleads guilty to kidnapping of this poor eight-year-old girl, Shelley.

And he is sentenced here. He pled guilty. And I guess we can definitely give him a you, sir, may fuck off. Yeah, for sure. A you, sir, may fuck off. Wait, no, let's let him ask for shit first. Hold on. Hold on.

He's got to plead for his life here. Oh, boy. The county attorney is asking for the high a life term for this they want life to quote that it quote might bring havoc into the lives of young girls to let him out ever again ever fair yeah uh very fair uh two they he brings in people to on his side like to present mitigating evidence and two different teachers of his described his problems as a child and that everybody rejected him and all that sort of thing he tells the court and the judge that he's sorry for committing the crime and he asks for another opportunity to straighten out his life

oh boy that's what he asked for but he makes a statement he does it and the judge says okay you sir may fuck off nine years to life which is short to long that's a lot nine years or forever yeah that's that's a lot based on how you're developing and everybody how are you going to tell if he's going to do that when he gets out i mean that gives you basically nine years before you can be paroled unless there's stipulations on uh no he can be paroled before nine okay because the nine's the minimum so he might can get out early. He can get out in four years or four and a half, serve half of it or 60% or whatever. 70 or not even because in January 1979, he's paroled. Oh my word.

You're paroling this monster. Oh Jesus. In less than seven years. A man said I was going to kill them, but they were nice. And I thought about killing her several fucking times. I was two minutes away from killing the girl. If they didn't pull up and stop, I definitely was going to kill her

because I was tired of hearing her. Seven years. Seven years. Oh, and he sexually assaulted a young girl also, which seems like seven years isn't even enough for that. Right. And then the kidnapping and was going to kill and there's a lot of stuff.

And I would call the Swansons almost a kidnap too. He had a gun and he had bad plans. So I don't know. They were willingly kidnapped. Yeah, that's what I bad plans so i don't know they just they were willingly kidnapped yeah that's what i mean they just didn't know they were in danger that's they just didn't know that he was in control of that whole situation they had no idea that he was planning this shit so he's paroled in january 1979 but in after eight months this idiot gets locked up again because he's a moron he's gonna get locked up here he's a more man he's a moron. He's going to get locked up here. He's a more man. He's a more man.

He's locked up on a weapons violation. He definitely shouldn't have any weapons. And he is. And he's placed back in prison. So between 1980 and 1984, he's denied parole eight times. Good. He keeps coming up for parole. Six months. I guess so.

And they keep denying him in this whole thing. coming up for parole six months i guess so and they keep denying him in this whole thing but he does end up with in late 1983 he starts getting uh what they call compassion furloughs a compassionate furlough is that which are like 72 hour yeah furloughs where you can get out for a little bit out for a little bit to spend time with your family or do something or whatever so yeah his mother maude is in her 70s now and her health isn't great so he goes to see her but she comes down from flagstaff to takes the bus down from flagstaff to spend 72 hour furloughs with him apparently uh so this is what he's doing so they're letting this guy out he's in he's in florence he's in florence he's a he's a trustee yeah and

everything like wow it's crazy mark david chapman gets those uh compassion furloughs where he has to leave and but i think he has a wife and he's like made children with her he's like that guy was that guy's a crazy he's a crazy person he's not to me that's not a guy that's a guy who if you put him on medication or whatever the psycho i don't know what his psychological problems are but whatever they are if you can get them under control he'll probably be fine yeah what he did wasn't like something it was extravagant it wasn't yeah it's clearly a delusion that he was having of some kind of some weird shit that was going on but this guy is just a garden variety scumbag that you wouldn't want walking around a fucking walmart with children yeah or anything

for that. Yeah. Just a predator who scares the living shit out of me to have on the street. It started with the abandonment by his mom and his dad and the abuse. And then he's a product of that societal behavior. Oh, he's a mold. He's like one of those Russian dolls. It's just every layer is another fucking issue, another problem. And this problem is physical.

And this problem comes from his family. There's no fixing this shit. Comes from abuse. And then, oh, boy, there's this layer. And, hey, there's the feeling weird about being adopted layer. And here's the rejection in school layer. And you add all this up. And the lack of a childhood and being able to actually just play and be carefree.

And now that's what he assimilates. And we're not trying say that oh i'm not making an excuse for him he can go fuck himself there's a lot of people with a lot of problems you still gotta make choices yeah and that choice should never include doing anything to an eight-year-old girl so i don't give a shit what the fuck you've done he already what's happened to you never have the opportunity to be out just based on that crime i know people who've had worse lives than that who aren't didn't do this like literally know them personally that were that their life would fucking be nothing this is nothing compared to them this is the terrible shit so anyway he's granted a bunch of these furloughs and he's granted one on january 13th of january 12th 1984 they tell him he can go out that weekend starting february january 13th or January 12th, 1984. They tell him he can go out that weekend

starting January 13th, 1984. It's a Friday. 72 hours he's got here. Three days. Three days. He's got a Memorial Day weekend. You know what I mean? We don't even get that.

A three-day weekend. We don't even get that outside of our job. You know what I mean? That's what I mean. Think about that. Three-day weekend. Enjoy, fella. Unreal. Yeah, think about that. Three-day weekend. Enjoy, fella. Unreal.

So, yeah, they say these aren't work. There's work furloughs, but these are compassion ones for inmates and their family. And, yeah, there's specific places you're allowed. You can't, like, go out of town or anything like that. So they said in this case, the advanced age of his mother was a factor, the court said, in granting the furlough here. He had been granted, like we said, three the furlough here uh he had been granted like we said three other furloughs before this and they may have never had any problems so whatever so his mother uh maud she she 74 years old she travels down uh by bus on thursday to see him on

the 12th to visit with him uh they check into the blue mist hotel and our blue mist motel in florence which is right next to the prison yeah and uh sounds disgusting yeah uh room 22 oh baby that's just this that's what dreams are made of jesus i bet the room service there's phenomenal i'm just gonna say that the late night menu's spectacular everybody everybody get the uh chocolate lava cake you won't regret it it's it's amazing it's a blue mist hotel incredible motel jimmy what are we talking about come on you think there's a hotel around the prison it's hilarious because that that implies that there's like sea spray some waves somewhere mist right you're in a sea of dirt is where you're yeah the mist will hurt your ow what is that is that? Why is it grainy?

The mist is hurting my eyes because it's grainy and I can't see anything. It should be called either the brown cloud. The brown cloud. The tan fog. Something like that. The beige fog. The chewy mist. Yeah.

It could be a lot of things, but it's all just lighter mud. That's what that is. The opaque surroundings, something, I don't know, something weird. I mean, at least it's not the red mist. Well, it's true. That doesn't, that would sound even worse. Bad things happening in there. So about, he's in room 22.

They, you know, checking in and all that sort of shit uh so uh on uh friday january the 12th he gets out that's the thing so 12th the 13th and the 14th and he comes back on sunday that's how it works so they get there the thursday night they're in the in the hotel friday the 13th uh in the morning um robert bobby calls marian Southworth, who is a friend who had brought his mother to the prison from the bus depot, a friend of his mom's, and told her that when she got to the motel, basically he wanted her to take him to see a lawyer somewhere that day. So that was when she got there with the mother. He said, hey, will you take me tomorrow to see this

lawyer? Whatever. So that's part of the deal. So between 6 and 7 30 a.m., that's what's supposed to happen. But between 6 and 7 30 a.m., Bobby walks into a store and he purchases a few things. He gets some food. He gets a steak knife, which I

gotta say, how many times have you been in a hotel and ordered food like from Uber Eats and they don't even give you plastic silverware? You're like, I have a salad and a piece of shit. I can't eat any of this shit. I have no... Then you have to go downstairs and find silverware. So it makes sense if you're going to spend three days. Louisville gave me a salad and a plastic spoon. Best of luck.

That's one. We got one in Louisville after the show. We got all this stuff and salad and all sorts of stuff. Nothing. Not a plastic spoon. Best of luck. That's one. We got one in Louisville after the show. We got all this stuff and salad and all sorts of stuff. Nothing. Not a plastic spoon, not a fork. Nothing. Push your face in it. So I got to go hunt around the hotel for a fucking silverware roll.

The salad that I got, that they gave me, the sweetheart option of a of a spoon not even a spork a spoon just a spoon was a wedge salad which is a fucking head of lettuce that they hack in half throw it in a dish and then sprinkle some vegetables on it just ate it like a pizza i did i was gonna say i just pulled pieces of the lettuce off and pushed vegetables into it at that point ate them like tacos after that show in that weekend yeah it's like who cares man i don't even care anymore flighting early in the morning you're not gonna get me down i don't care louisville take it they kept pushing this hot brown sandwich don't push a sandwich called the hot brown no first of all no and then they described what it

was and the guy at the theater we were at was telling us about it and we're like is it good and he's like i have about one a year he goes you don't want to eat it before travel and he goes it's as as he's making a motion with his hands like pushing down down his stomach like like making a shoot down and he says it's all clarified butter as he does that so it'll just just, it's going to fly out of you. And his hands go closer together. Oh, yeah. It's going to, from your intestines to your asshole, shooting out. It's going to funnel in a butter fashion.

It's just going to funnel. Right to your colon. Everything, like a fire hose. Watch out. It's a mess. So he purchases some food, Bobby does, a steak knife, and a buck knife as well. Well, what do only need both four. Who the fuck knows?

You're in prison. That's the thing, he can't take it back to prison with him. Maybe he's going to try to sneak it back into prison. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community.

Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot,

and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit,

but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit We'll see you next time. the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the way back machine and dissect the details of some

of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So he interacts with a bunch of people on Friday and he says that he talks to people, you know, he's walking around doing shit and he talked about business dealings and family things, none of which were true. He was just like making up stories,

walking around town, telling people shit. I would do it too. You just got to pretend to be something else. Otherwise, it gonna get you down that's the thing maybe he's just trying to have some fun yeah he's having a good time he tells the clerk who sold him the buck knife that it's a gift for his son right doesn't have a son um i like it uh he said that he told several people that his father was also here visiting with him which which he's been dead for 20 years, 17 years of dead. He's there, too. Just telling people shit.

Told the liquor store clerk that he's married and that his mother died of cancer. Neither of which are true. Also, yeah, I got married recently. The wife, you know, the ball and chain like that. Yeah, it was tough at the mom's funeral. Like, what are you talking about? Not even like one could like i'm gonna be this guy today he's just different people saying whatever he feels like outfit changes and shit like yeah like a hat mustache glasses on one of the things he comes in how you doing there they're like what the hell

my dad's visiting you know he's got a napoleon hat on they're like what are you doing need a buck knife for my boy. My dad's here. We're going to teach the boy how to hunt. You know how that goes. It's tough. The wife's been breaking my balls. She doesn't want to teach the kid how to hunt.

She doesn't want to hurt animals. But, you know, I told him, it's the way it is. Since my mom died, I can't deal with it. This is the only way I can relax. Goes back to the pick and save or goodwill and grabs a fishing vest with some lures on it. Yeah. And has a new story. Come on now. Time to tell a new story.

He's got all sorts of stories. So a little after 8 a.m. he goes to a pizza place, which is open at 8 a.m. for some reason. I don't know why. And the pizza place is owned by a former prison guard who knows him from prison. He's like, oh, that's the crazy guy from prison. I know this guy. Yeah. He buys a soda.

Bobby does there in the morning. And he tells this owner who he knows, he's like, yep, I'm out on a furlough. Because he's like, are you out now? And he's like, I'm out on a furlough. Kind of. Perfect. Great. I'm outdoors now.

I'm outdoors now. That's all it is, man. So, yeah, he says, I'm out on a furlough kind of perfect great i'm outdoors now i'm outdoors now that's all it is bad so yeah he says i'm out on a furlough he said i'm here with my mom she's back at the hotel she's not feeling too well right now that's why i'm here by myself but we'll be in for dinner this evening so save me a table see you in a bit my fine your finest table sir oh take them to the furlough booth. Our finest. Make sure Would you like to see the wine list, sir? Oh, I'm sorry. Here. I'm having a furlough special.

Maybe you'd want to take that. Good lord. Nice bottle of red. So about 9 a.m., he goes to the front desk of the hotel. So he's got some food. He's got a buck knife, a steak knife, a soda. Making his rounds. Making up stories. And then he heads to the front desk of the hotel. So he's got some food. He's got a buck knife, a steak knife, a soda. Making his rounds, making up stories. And then he heads to the front desk.

I wonder if he's got like three hats. He's got grab bags in each one. One has a... A beard. Yeah. Well, he's got all the stuff in his bag. But he's also got his occupation hat. He's also got his family story hat. And each one has a different uh theme and he

gets to pick a new job yeah postman hat army helmet and each one has a different story yankee hat on he's like oh spring training i'm in town for spring training i'm in town for yeah don't they play in Florida? Yeah, it's the winter league. You know how it is. They call us. It's a weird little league that we play over here.

Don't worry about it. I'll take this buck knife for my son now. Me and my dad are going to teach him about hunting because my wife, you know what I mean.

His furlough sounds so fun. It's amazing. So at 9 a.m. he goes to the front desk of the Blue Mist and he asks the owner to hold off on maid service and phone calls because his mom's not feeling well, and he wants to let her rest. She needs to chill out.

She's 74. She's not feeling well. Let's not bother her at all here. Florence has got her down. She's a little depressed here. She's getting some sort of dust fever. Right. So about this time, he also goes up to the owner's wife and asks her not to come to the room, too, because the owner was sick or because his mom's sick.

He says, but could I borrow some disinfectant spray? Because she's sick and she's worried about germs and shit. So I'm going to spray the place down. The owner's wife says Robert smelled horrible at this point. It's 9 a.m. He smells like complete shit and he's got blood on his face. Oh, which is strange. Wait, It's 9 a.m., he smells like complete shit, and he's got blood on his face. Oh. Which is strange for 8 a.m.

Yeah, this is the first person to describe blood on his face. Yeah. Last he was getting a soda at the pizza place with the prison guard, there's no blood on his face, and he smells fine. And now he's got blood on him. By 9, he's got blood on him, and he smells shitty. Or is he bleeding? She just saw blood on his face, so she doesn't know if he's bleeding, if he fell over, who the hell knows what's going on.

So apparently some towels he left outside of the room smelled so bad that the owner threw them away. Really? That's how bad they smell. I don't know how badly you could befoul a towel where hot water and fucking bleach wouldn't take that shit away. They threw it away. a foul a towel where hot water and fucking bleach wouldn't take that shit away that's think about how bad that's got to smell because these are like 1985 motel towels they are white they get bleached on hot water are they period what do they have any brown on them just smell bad smell they stink okay stink uh so now her maude's friend mar Marianne Southworth, remember her? She shows up that afternoon with Maude's suitcase there.

So Robert told her, Robert says, yeah, my mother, she's not even here. I'll take her suitcase inside. But she took off this morning to get a salad at about 10, which is an hour after he was at the motel desk. He said she took off, said she was going to get a salad. I haven't fucking seen her since. I don't know where she is. She's wandering around somewhere, but I guess I'll take her shit, so I'll take it inside.

So he also said that his mother asked him to get rid of some garbage bags. So I got some shit my mother said if I could get rid of, and the woman said, well, I have nowhere to put these garbage bags, so I'm not going to put them in my car and drive them to my house. So I don't know what to tell you. Take trash with me? Yeah, put it in the dumpster. I don't know what to tell you. Take trash with me? Yeah, put it in the dumpster. I don't know what to tell you.

She also noticed that Maude's purse was still in the motel room. She said because he opened the door. So the purse was still in the room, and she said the room was freezing. She could feel like cold, freezing air. And it's January, so it's not like it's 110 outside. Because in Arizona, it's like 110 outside. When someone opens a door and the AC's at 77, it feels like it's 36 degrees in there.

It's like, oh, my God. Jesus, you rich motherfucker. The difference between 77 and 110 in one pit is like, whoa, whoa, Jesus, that feels amazing. Holy shit. Somebody's doing well for themselves. I'm going to freeze today. You got to park if I'm going to come in.

Can I borrow your jacket? That's what it feels like for a minute. How can you afford all that electricity? It's amazing, but it's January, so it's not that hot outside. And she can feel the cold, which is like, why is the AC on full blast when it's 68 degrees outside? Why are you soaking it up? Yeah, we can attest in January, it's in the 60s and shit like that here.

And it can get colder. It can get colder. Down in Florence where there's nothing to keep the heat in, it gets so cold. Yeah, Phoenix is a heat island. And back then, too, it was a lot. The temperatures were lower then in general, especially in Arizona

because a lot more people have come here. But anyway, Maude's purse is still in the hotel room and the cold air is coming out and everything like that so about 4 p.m uh bobby calls uh southworth again marianne calls her back at her home and said hey has my mother called you yeah she's still not here she left at 10 for the salad i'm still don't know where she has been six hours and i don't know so about 4 30 p.m half hour later bobby goes up to the motel owner again. And he asks him, do you know if garbage comes tomorrow?

Like the garbage man come in the morning with the truck and all that shit. And the owner said that no, the garbage wouldn't be collected until Monday morning. Garbage men don't usually come on Saturday, dummy. It's not their scheduled time for the most part. Ever heard of a 9 to 5? You know how it works, right? Usually Monday through Friday. Some cities they do, but probably not Florence.ce anyway it's coming on monday so it's

going to be there for a while um so bobby said all right um but i have see my mother bought a bunch of meat yeah she brought it down from flagstaff jesus she brought me a bunch of meat and it's gone so now it's bad she brought it down i don't know what the hell she was thinking she bought it on sale and now it's been sitting in the motel for two days. And now I got the spoiled meat. I don't know what the fuck to do with it. So can I throw it out here? And the guy was like, no, we're not throwing spoiled meat.

My dog's going to stink by Monday. No, you can't do that. So he said, all right, fine. So then Bobby, later on, a couple hours later, he's wandering around telling stories. He asked the liquor store clerk and the pizza parlor owner who's also the ex-prison guard uh whether he could dispose of uh he told one he had spoiled meat and he told one he had animal guts wow one of each and he said can i put this shit in your dumpster and both of them said you know that's kind of against the health code can't have strange outside meats in my dumpster yeah i don't know how that works. So the pizza parlor owner,

he said, you know, that's just weird. This guy's on furlough walking around with sacks of spoiled meat. Right. This is strange. Mom's missing.

She went to go get a salad. They probably gave her a spoon, so it's taken her nine hours to eat it. Yeah, they gave me, gave her a plastic spoon. Hopefully, I know she's not going to be able to eat

that fucking thing. That's good. She's been there a while, and that's why. That's not bad. Yeah. What did you order? Veal Parmesan? to eat that fucking thing. That's good. She's been there a while, and that's why. That's not bad. What did you order? Veal parmesan? Yeah, I'll tell you what. Here's nothing. How's that? Here's a toothpick. Get to work. Pick it up with your hands

like a fucking animal. Nod off of the... Be a man! Nod off! Let's go. Just put your face right in the spaghetti side. Don't worry about it. Put your face in the spaghetti and suck. Pick the rigatoni up with your pinky fingers one at a time like a fucking toddler hell yeah enjoy so this guy the pizza place owner he tells there's a

couple local cops that are around there and he says just a quick thing he goes guys i worked at the prison and you know joe and bill know you guys. They work furlough. He's got a bag of meat. It's a little weird. It's bizarre. Maybe you want to look into it. So about 10.30 that night, two police officers go to the Blue Mist and go knock on his door, and they explain they heard his mom was sick, and they wanted to check in on her welfare,

make sure she's okay. He told them that his mother had been sick that morning, but now she's feeling better, and she had, quote, gone visiting with aican woman at about 6 p.m okay that feels racist i don't know what that is that feels a little andrew jackson doesn't have a name or anything just she went visiting with a mexican woman all righty then like right for mexico you know how it works they like to take them out and go out they're like tour guides around here she came here on a big hay truck just right over the border, I feel like. That's what he's trying to say. Picked up my mom and showing her around town.

That's how it goes. He said he hadn't heard from her since, but he's very worried about her because she was not feeling good and she's older and now she's off with some Mexican woman. God knows what's going on here. So he says he's very worried, obviously. And they took note that all he was wearing was a pair of pants that were unzipped and a belt. Oh, gross. So he's like standing there with his pants undone with a belt on still, though, which is kind of like live PD Pasco County, Florida standard uniform in a trailer park when they come outside. That's a man who has taken a piss and forgot.

Yeah. Whoops. I forgot. No, he just left it because i'm gonna piss again sometime it's easier shit i'm gonna keep operating the zipper i'll wear it out you know how it goes shit so the officers look around the dumpsters and they don't see anything so they're like let's see if there's like you know maybe whatever maybe there's gonna be a leg sitting there or something or a dead woman that we'll find and they don't see anything

so they just go to the hotel and they go to the prison they leave the hotel they go to the prison and they go where at the prison they get a description of maude just to know what they're on the lookout for yeah just all they know is an older lady at this point so they get back to the motel and they park in front of his in front of his room they're just gonna watch him and see what happens oh that's shitty which he's on a furlough so they he has no he has no rights really at this point they're allowed to do that uh about five minutes later he comes out of his room and approaches the police car hey what you doing hey guys how's it going so he's clearly looking out and seeing what's going on they asked him if his mother had come back yet and he said no and so then they said well what

does she look like give us a physical description of your mom that way in case we run into her while we're out doing our rounds we'll fucking let her know you're looking for we'll give her a ride on back to the blue mist there you go and we'll be good deal uh so bobby says that he's very concerned um she hasn't come back yet she did not take her medication with her and she's been gone for 12 hours now so this is very worrisome. And two more officers arrived at the motel. Oh, shit. This world is caving in. No, no. He insists on taking them into the room to show them his mother's medication. Like, look, it's still here. So you need to go find her because it's fucking medication right there.

He tells them that his mother had sent him to the U-Totem store, which is a store there, to buy a knife to give to her friend and uh that when he returned his mom was gone she sent him out for the knife he gets back she's not even here anymore now that's a different story than she went to get a salad at 10 a.m any story he's told so far he is not told a consistent story of who he is where he's going where he's been what his mom's doing for the pizza book guy but even still then he was like we'll be back later we'll be back later and yeah the whole deal so uh uh this contradicted everything he also tells uh he told one of the officers that a friend now now it's not his mom now a friend had given him some cow guts why would you accept that as a gift right if you came over my house was like brought you some cow

guts i'd be like no thanks you put those right back in your car it's a gift james i thank you i really give it back i appreciate i just turned vegan just now like just right now when you when you took that bag out of your truck i decided that no more meat for me so uh yeah they he said he's been trying to get rid of them all goddamn day these goddamn cow guts everyone in this town's a total jerk. They won't take my gift. No, it'll take them. I put a bow on it and everything. There's some glitter on the bag. Watch out.

Be careful. Get on your hands. Your wife will think you went to the strip club. The man, he's a prisoner. He's got friends on the outside so generous they'll give him cow guts. All sorts of cow guts for free. Free cow guts. I got so many friends.

Not a friend will give me cow guts. Never. They never offer anyway. Selfish dicks. Maybe they would if i showed any interest maybe it's on me i'm gonna put this on me my friends are good people yeah so they said okay well where are the cow guts and he said well eventually i just flushed him down the toilet oh my god so eventually he somehow flushed cow guts down the toilet it's a lot of cow that's a lot of flushes yeah it's just a lot of waiting for it waiting for the tank to fill back up again looking at his watch he has no phone he's not looking through twitter he doesn't have like a video he's just standing there and wait for the whole water

to come up okay and then stand there again for hours for fucking hours and and how many times did he put too much and have to take some back out yeah and reach his hand in there so fucking weird blue mist it's so goddamn weird so uh at some point uh they're like all right uh they don't know what to do at some point between 10 30 and 11 p.m they find out as well he asked before they when they left between the time they left and came back when they were parked in front of his room he had asked a corrections officer who he ran into in the motel parking lot those poor bastards today there that he knew uh he asked him quote where could i dispose of 25 pounds of spoiled hamburger meat that my parents plural right dead father's dead had brought with them

down from flagstaff why would you bring 25 pounds of hamburger meat for a three-day furlough in a motel when are you gonna have the opportunity to cook 25 pounds of hamburger meat to a man that doesn't have the opportunity to keep leftovers that's what i mean you're gonna send him home with a fucking tinfoil swan or something he's he's going back to prison you're going what are you doing you're eating out for a couple days not like it's a full kitchen all right it's a suite at the blue mist so got a kitchenette yeah so the officer suggested why don't you call the officer in charge of this unit in the prison maybe he knows what to do with it this officer's passing the buck he doesn't give a shit i don don't know. Totally. He's just like, call this guy that's not me.

Sound good? Don't tell anybody you saw me with this chick here. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. So now the cops have left. He said he flushed the meat down the toilet. They don't know what else to do. They can't do anything.

So they're like, I don't know. I guess we'll leave now. There's no anything to complain about. So they take off 1220 a.m this is saturday morning at 12 20 he calls the lieutenant in charge of the prison unit and asks him about it 12 20 like midnight midnight 12 20 a.m god he's calling people at the prison at midnight because he just ran into the guy in the parking lot and he said why don't you call the lieutenant and he said okay fine so i'll call him now well that's after the cops left okay and the cops were there for a while and he said i flushed the

hamburger or the the cow guts down the toilet so now he's calling the lieutenant he calls him he asked him for help he said that his cousin had dropped off some dog bones a couple days earlier and that he needed to get rid of them and some other stuff and then his mother was visit was out visiting from the hotel and that the dumpster at the motel was full. And how do I get rid of these bones and whatever? So, yeah, bones, guts and meat. Yes. So the lieutenant agrees to come by and help.

Oh, boy. The lieutenant comes by about 10 minutes later and Robert puts a box in the bed of the guy's truck and then he asked for a ride back to the prison so he could get something out of his living quarters because he's in like the minimum security area here so the lieutenant refused to do that yeah we're not giving you fucking rides but i'll take your box of meat okay taxi yeah so he returned to the prison and put the box uh and he could see some clean bones in the box he put them out by the dumpster so he's put them by the prison dumpster

i'll throw these fucking bones out sure and he said he saw like clean bones in there like dog bones like bobby said so they're out by the dumpster about 1 30 a.m uh the lieutenant receives a call from the police saying hey just a heads up bobby's uh mormon there has been acting pretty suspiciously he's asking to throw out like spoiled meat and shit. By the way, his mom is missing. Nobody can find her. So, you know, if you see anything weird, just let us know.

How fast did the blood drain out of his face? His eyes open up big and he's like, I just helped dispose of what? Matter of fact. Yeah. Oh, Jesus. I just picked up a box

with a bunch of bones and shit like that. So he and a policeman went and opened the like that so he and the on a policeman went and opened the bags in the box and they found what looked like human bones and tissue it's at this point the police take the box to the hospital for analysis and they go back to have another chat with bobby yeah let's find out what this is and then have a peek a little little face-to-face with old with old uh a little bit of face time with the b-man here so he says uh they went back to their car to wait at that point the cops did uh they came he ends up coming out of his room again about

1 30 a.m bobby does and crosses the parking lot goes over to a pay phone yeah the officers uh that you know they tell their police captain over the radio what's going on we got him yeah they tell them the captain says not to let him go back into his room keep him outside so they drove their car back in front of the room the cops do and they asked him if he wanted to wait in the car for his mom to come back yeah you want to wait in your comfortable room or in our car right um he said sure what the hell i'll hang out sounds great so one of the police officers offered him the front passenger seat okay here you can sit up there you know this is actually more comfortable than the Blue Mist Motel.

It's better, right? It just stinks less, probably. So the other cop goes and sits in the back of the car, and they sit there for about an hour and 15 minutes. And Bobby, at this point, is dozing off. What? Talking to the cops and kind of dozing off here and there. He's had a busy day.

He was out at 6 a.m. buying buck knives and steak knives and shit. Stayed up until 1 a.m.? It it's one something he's all tuckered out the picture i'm like a little kid just with his blankie he just fell over on the floor while he was reenacting a cartoon and it's over man so uh at this point the cops the fucking cutest thing in the world it's adorable yeah he's sucking his thumb. What a disaster. I remember Landon did that shit to me while I was making dinner. Oh, yeah, I do that all the time, little kids. He had a fork and he's just nodding off.

Done, pow. And then he eventually just dropped the fork on the tile. Lay it out. Face on the floor. Little kids do that shit. I want this fucker doing that on the asphalt. So does Bobby. He's doing it in the front seat of a police cruiser.

It's all snuggled up to the shotgun so uh wow super weird so they know at this point it's you know they can't find his mom he's been asking for to people to dispose of cow guts spoiled hamburger meat bones lots of cow flesh all sorts of meaty items um has said his mother was ill. Then his mother was out visiting with Mexican women. The police also noticed reddish brown spots on the floor that appeared wet in his motel room. That seems like enough to probably have a talk with him right now. What are we doing? He's a prisoner. He doesn't have any rights.

Especially not to have blood on his floor. At this point, just fucking rock him up. They knew he purchased a knife, which he probably isn't allowed to have. It's got to be in the furlough standards. You can't buy weapons, I'm sure. The room smelled medicinal, they called it, like a hospital, like disinfectant. He tells the police different stories about his mother's disappearance. This is a lot here.

Tells them a horrible story about flushing cow guts down the toilet that was given to him by his cousin. He said he described it in detail, and they were sickened by it. story about flushing cow guts down the toilet that was given to him by his cousin which he said he described it in detail and it was just they were sickened by it his friends and cousin are disgusting with their possessions you've got cow guts and bones and it's yeah here you go he knows a lot of weird people merry christmas right i know you were in prison for christmas so i saved these rancid cow guys i bought them for christmas i know it's january now but you can have them again i just kept them outside we thought your furlough would be earlier yay here's 25 pounds of spoiled hamburger meat enjoy so they sit there for over an hour until about 2 37 a.m when the call comes into the cops that the bones that were found at the prison are human

bones and uh they formally place him under arrest at that point 240 uh 245 a.m two officers from the prison get there and uh you know the whole thing they take mormon out of the car they handcuff him they told him he's under arrest for suspicion of murder as he's getting back in the car he says to them quote i wonder if i need a lawyer i'll leave it up to you guys whether i need a lawyer oh boy oh that's wow that's not a no uh the officers don't say anything because they're like what the fuck don't tell him he doesn't need one that's probably bad but just probably if we just let it lie he'll probably forget he's got a lot going on he's all tuckered out remember probably got a lot of thoughts

he says at that point i'd like to confess please uh they told him to wait and uh they said they're on their way to the police station hold on a second and he said all right fine and he sits there for five minutes while they're on the way to the station he says and just so you know you can change the charge because she's dead so it's not just whatever your charge is you can add dead mom to it because uh i killed her yeah so uh yeah he tells the officers that he called the prison because he was afraid they might be mad that his mother wasn't with him and that he had just

had, quote, lost his cool when, this is when it gets weird, he said that his mother made him, quote, take his father's place once his father died and has always made him, quote, do things he just can't handle. Jesus. Yes. He claims died and has always made him quote do things he just can't handle jesus uh yes he claims uh from

this point on that his mother was making him do sexual things to her yeah the dad here so uh they take him to the police station where he's read his miranda warning and he confesses to the entire fucking thing yeah which uh we will talk about in a second because we have something very special surprise for you here. So they handcuffed him. He says the attorney thing. This whole thing goes on. This is about 2.53 a.m.

that they decide they're going to read him his Miranda rights. When they first read him his Miranda rights outside the car, they don't mention the lawyer thing. So it's like a weird something to do with that where he doesn't mention the lawyer thing. But then they take him in. They fully Miranda eyes him, as you can see. And for this, I figure we should we should present to you because I have the entire interrogation and script form. The whole transcript.

It's the whole transcript. We shall present to you small town murder. Small town murdery theater small town murder peace theater 3000 this is what this is small town murder peace theater we've done it before jimmy will play the part of both police officers oh and i will be bobby should i run two different accents? They probably sound pretty similar, I would say. So we'll start at the top. There's two paragraphs. Don't worry about where the reading is right. He says, OK, having these rights in mind, do you wish to talk to us? And I say, yes, I do. He says, OK, time is 318. And they say, OK, he says his name. Let's start where they say, would you like to tell us what happened today?

You start there. Okay, having these things in mind, having these rights in mind, do you wish to talk to us? Tell us what happened today. Okay, okay, okay. There's a time. Got it. Okay, okay, Robert. That's Haral.

Yeah, you could be Haral and the other guy. You've got to be Don Fusin and Captain TJ Har and captain yeah he's a bad authority in your voice for him okay robert would you present during this interview what wrong place would you present during this interview is that what a problem robert henry mormon would you tell us would you like to tell us what happened today okay this is so this asked him his name got it okay there you go now we're in business robert robert henry mormon would you like to tell us what happened today? Well, my mom and I, we had an argument and during it, I hit her a few times and then it got worse and I lost my cool and I tied her up.

She kept on, kept on talking about things and that pertained to my real family and I don't remember the exact time, but I suffocated her. Then I took the 409 and I went into the washroom. I panicked, at which time I dissected her. Where did you do that at? In the shower in the tub there. Was that this morning, Robert? Yes, sir. Was that this morning, Robert?

Yes, sir. Now, you told me earlier when we were trying to find her that while she was missing, you got up at about 6.30 or 7 o'clock. Is that what time you got up to do this? I never went to bed. You never went to bed last night. That would have been on the night of the 13th. Yes, sir. Night of the 12th.

Yes, sir. Night of the 12th yes sir night of the 12th yes sir night of the 12th uh friday night or thursday night thursday thursday night that would have been on the night of the 12th uh did your mother stay up all night too yes sir okay um was it was it was it sun up yet do you know robert i didn't get to check didn't pay Did you, uh, what did you use to suffocate her? A pillow. Okay, was that, uh, was she like on the bed, Robert? The bed closest to the bathroom. On the bed closest to the bathroom, okay.

And then you held the pillow on her face? Yep, I kept it there until she was dead. You had tied her up before then? Oh, yeah. What did you tie her up with, Robert? I tore a towel up. Tore a towel up. What did you do with the towel after?

I threw it away this morning. You threw away the towel this morning. Do you know where you threw it away this morning. You threw away the towel this morning. Do you know where you threw it? Yes, it's probably in one of those bins where the maids put stuff. You know how that might be. Okay, did you throw it in the trash in the room there? I gave it to the maid. It was in a plastic bag, and I gave it to the maid this morning.

You gave the maid a plastic bag this morning? Yeah, when I told them that my mom was sick and I didn't want to be disturbed, and instead of going inside, they had me just hand them the stuff. Okay. Was there anything else in the bag that you handed the maid? A razor blade that I used to cut her. I had torn one of the razor blades I had apart, and that's what I did. There was trash and some bloody material. Anything oh the there was just there was trash and some there was bloody material

anything in the bag no just the parts of the towel and a piece of the razor and one of the razors there might be i can't remember if i put one piece of the towel that was kind of bloody in there or not there might be i can't remember though i don't know uh okay robert after you suffocated her then what happened well i untied her right and i let her lay there for a while you know how it goes uh then i knew i had to do something because i knew baker and that mrs southworth was gonna was gonna be there okay did she show up at one o'clock yes okay what did you do before she showed up well that's when i dissected my mom okay when you did when you did that then what did you do how do you dispose of her i went down and i bought some plastic bags from the uh from the grocery store from you totem yes and i use the knife you

have uh and i use the knife you have so on and if you look in the fan, that's the one against the far wall. There's something in the little holes on top. You'll find the steak knife that I used to cut the bones there. Okay. Officer Thu, okay. Do you know what, do you recall how many bags you had to use, Robert? No. Okay.

Jeez. Okay. But I knew that on some of the parts i doubled you you doubled or you used two bags on some yeah yeah but then i decided at first see i just cut her and then i put i put the arms and legs in the bags and then later on i decided i knew uh that if it would be easier to dispose of her so then i figured i just dissect her completely uh that's I panicked, and that's the reason I wanted to talk to the major. There's something I'll tell him. Okay.

But I would... Go ahead. I would like to... Well, you two can be there on this, but I'd like to have this part off the record. Okay. And there's an off-the-record discussion, and we come back. Did you flush anything down the toilet? Yes.

What did you flush down the toilet? Nine fingers. Fingers. Yes. Is that toilet? Yes. What did you flush down the toilet? Nine fingers. Fingers. Yes. Is that all? Yes, sir. Okay. You said nine fingers.

The tenth one I did this afternoon. Now you say you did this this afternoon. What did you mean by that? When I was cutting them off, I lost one of them. I see. And this afternoon, I i found it did you flush it also yes do you know okay do you recall how many trips uh you made to any of the uh trash bags areas with bags not that i remember um about four about four yeah because i didn't

want people to know what I was doing. I'll carry them all at once. I see. After what, what clothes were, okay, what clothes, where are the clothes that you had on when you did this? Nothing. No clothing? Nothing.

You did, you didn't have any clothes on when you did this? Nope. Okay. Do you want to talk to the major now? Whenever he wants to. Okay. This concludes this interview. Okay.

That's. Think about that. That happened. I can't even. How did those men keep it together? Okay. I just love all the. All right.

Okay. Well, you got to act like this is fine you can't go holy shit you how the fuck do you lose a finger yeah how do you keep your pool with it with those it had rolled behind the toilet bowl you know how fingers are they get a tumbling when they're straight that rigamortis had a real solid line yeah it just it just kept on rolling couldn't find it oh shit so this is what's happening what an event okay this we have that wasn't written that was real that was real that's a transcript in a fucking supreme court document that that is absolutely real man said those words that i highlighted jimmy's lines and said let's do this small town murder peace theater

3000 i only stumbled on words that was pretty good yeah well they're all the stumbling is yeah it's all there it's all uh well i can't just what how do you start sentences like that the amount of times they were saying that was them wanting to go what the fuck yeah that was okay all right well that's normal not perfectly normal what you're telling us we hear it all the time anyway keep going this happens every day wow in a small town so 4 44 a.m he requests an attorney at this point uh now it's attorney time finally uh the police chief said that they made efforts to get him attorney an attorney when he's held at the police station until then at 6 40 uh another police

officer a doctor arrives to uh the examiner to examine his clothing and take fingernail scrapings from him as well he still didn't have an attorney at this point they're gathering the evidence but they don't discuss the crime they just discuss that gather the evidence he at this point though points to spots on his pants that he says are his mother's blood yeah uh there now uh this statement is going to actually be suppressed later on because it's he asked he had asked for a lawyer technically at that point he's not supposed to say anything he says now but he's just utter he's just telling people but the guy's taking his stuff so okay it's kind of a gray area so they just suppress it it later on. Yeah, so there's a thing about the council. They skip a part in the Miranda in the beginning about before when he tells her you can change the charge, she's dead.

Before that, they had Mirandized him, but they didn't tell the part about the lawyer. They forgot to say you can have a lawyer with you while you're questioning the right to that. They leave that part out. Okay. So that's an issue later on as well. Well, yeah. So it's at this point

they find a search warrant. They get a search warrant to search his room. And by the way, it gets crazier for me. Oh, boy. They find bedding stained with Maude's blood,

towels, a washcloth, a cooking pot stained with blood. Okay. So he boiled her down. I don't okay so he boiled her down i don't know if he boiled her down or if he was using it to dump things like a carry oh boy i don't know if he was using that to dump the meat in the like like a dustpan like scooping it up oh my christ blood stains on the bathroom walls and floor these police officers were in this room nobody

noticed all this shit they saw a couple of reddish brown drops 409 is amazing i guess so you ever used it yes incredible shit apparently well i know it's good for like killing bugs yeah if you're ever gonna get like a like a horrible bug out here like if i see a scorpion anywhere on the outside we have scorpions in arizona i don't use shit 409 they fucking lose it that kills everything imagine being drowned in 409. You'll die. I don't care what you are. You're going to die. It smells terrible. Oh, it's going to kill you.

Great stuff. Oh, it'll clean it. Apparently, it'll clean up your mom's murder scene. Dude, I sprayed it on the walls. I bought a house and a woman had stayed. She died in the house, but she was in the house for 30 years. No, it's not. I laughed for some reason.

She died in the house. Why is that funny? That's not funny. Because it's Jimmy's first house. Our woman died there. But she smoked in the house and went, why is that funny? That's not funny. Because it's Jimmy's first house. Her woman died there. But she smoked in the house for 30 years after her husband died.

She just sat in the house just smoking constantly. Sounds great. And I bought the house and you can't just paint over that. No, no, no. You have to clean it first. So I got $4.99.

You fucking spray that shit on the walls and it took 30 years of cigarette tar off that wall. Impressive. It was amazing. The walls were white again.

It'll kill things, including that. It's incredible shit. But they didn't see any of this shit, and this was all there. Blood stains on the wall, blood stains on the bathroom walls and floor, a scouring pad with blood stains and human tissue, and a buck knife and a steak knife. They also found Maud's bra hanging in the closet with $500 in cash safety pin to it. Okay. Yeah.

In the trash dumpsters near the motel, they found trash bags containing Maud's thorax, head, pelvic area, feet and hands, and muscle and skin from her limbs as well as torn strips of towel a razor um and the pack this was the package in which the steak knife was sold so you know the package you got the steak he took her apart and some pajamas well he said dissected like science class this is way worse than dissected this is just trying his best to get it all off the bone police found a finger in the sewer that's the 10th finger that hadn't gone too far down yet there um yeah uh there's a problem a little problem later with the search warrant because one of the officers didn't complete the uh didn't complete correctly the portion of the search warrant on which items should be seized should

be listed yeah there so basically the warrant was for like a general, the defense is saying that the warrants for like a general or an exploratory warrant, like a kind of look around warrant, a plain sight kind of a thing. And, uh, so there's some problems there. The affidavit list is listed. The item seized as pillowcase used to suffocate victim, knives, receipts, bloodstains, victim identification, and other evidence. So they fight about the exact meaning of the words here, basically. Oh, my goodness, man. They referred to all these different things in the search warrant that apparently,

in the things they found that weren't exactly referred to in the search warrant. They do this a lot with, like, drug cases, too cases too where they seize things and you see that a lot um they said the affidavit incorporated in the warrant gave the police license to search for a pillowcase knives receipt and bloodstains and any other evidence and the vague open-endedness of the phrases are constitutionally permissible only if uh restrictively interpreted to authorize a search and seizure of evidence relating to a specific crime which this is so it's fucking fine uh basically they also uh search this is interesting oh by the way they the the person who led the search testified that he wanted to dismantle the toilet bowl but the police would not let him because the department might be

responsible for repair. Oh, for Christ's sake. I said, don't take that apart. Someone's going to have to fix it. Literally. Who's going to pay for that? They're taking apart a murder scene, and they said, we don't want to take the toilet apart. We might have to send a plumber in here on the city's dollar, and we can't have that. How broke is Florence?

Fuck me. Yeah. Too broke to fix a toilet. None of you. Can any of us know how to put it back together if I take it apart too broke to give ma justice jesus christ so good lord uh after they arrest him they do a warrantless search of his living quarters at the prison now okay during the search two of his lockers were unlocked uh they search his living quarters and they reveal a notebook of some of the craziest shit ever written by man, beast, foul, God, fucking anything. And the Bible exists.

Okay. He had a notebook of stuff, including a large section that had plans and instruct, not just plans plans instructions jimmy you'll never believe what i'm going to say right now i could give you 700 we could sit here until we're old and gray and die and just have food get brought in and have uh buckets to shit in and you would never guess the thing that he has written about in here okay instructions on how to train a dog to make bank deposits not withdrawals though you can't send them in there asking for withdrawals they get real confused when you do that you know what i mean you can they can only do deposits jimmy g i'm not fucking crazy i I didn't say withdraw.

I didn't say to tell him to go in there and refinance my fucking house, but he can make a deposit. Just got to make sure to teach him to fill out the slip right. It's hard. You know what I mean? To train a dog to make bank. That sounds like a mad lib. Right. To train a blank to do.

To make a blank. To make fucking bank deposits? Right. What is he talking about? How did he land there? I don't know. What does he give a fuck? He doesn't have a bank account. I just picture him sitting in bed one day.

He's lying there and he just goes, Holy shit, I got it. Someone give me my notebook. I got it. That's his big plan unbelievable to make bank nothing else not to train dogs to do anything else it's not like he had a whole dog training manual and he had like to lay down and shit to get your paper and then one crazy thing of that's the only thing he wanted to train dogs to do to make bank deposits um then he had a document entitled what the fuck last will and testament

i'm just picturing it standing at the counter oh you again deposit right deposit right after the first one it's probably pretty easy yeah they probably get it after that okay you just bring a check and a deposit slip and they go, got it. It's just filling out. You got to make sure he signs it if he's going to get cash back. You know how it goes. It's a pain in the ass. You got to teach him how to do this.

I'm glad someone's done it. Yeah. Also, he had a document entitled Last Will and Testament that said this was supposed to transfer Roberta, or his mother Maude, the estate to Bobby in exchange for shares in his business, which didn't exist. He doesn't own one. No, he does not. Yeah. Well, once he gets out and he gets the dog training business, there's going to be shares to be had.

And then a letter also that was supposed to be from Maude explaining why she was doing this also like my son is a genius with dogs i believe in his bank deposit system so much that he can have everything what the fuck yeah um yeah her actual will left her entire estate to bobby anyway but stated her belief that he was not competent to handle his own affairs and place the money in a trust for him so either way it was his money he just was going to get it in a trust distributed to him by a you know a third party rather than him just going weehoo and fucking scrooge mcducking into a pile of fucking cash but i mean spending it all on spoiled hamburger meat or buying the blue mist or buying like 50 dogs and killing them when they don't know how to fucking make bank deposits.

That would be a very frustrated man just losing his mind. You better be the one, Sparky. You better be the fucking one. I've tried healers. I've tried shepherds. This goddamn shih tzu is going to be the one. Goddamn tried healers i tried shepherds god damn shih tzu's gonna be the one god damn working dogs i've had it border collies are smart my fucking ass okay i'll just tell you that right now this is a bunch of bullshit i don't know shit about carrying the

oh man nothing so uh this is this is crazy so uh apparently that the executor of the estate said that she was planning to move to oklahoma to be with her remaining relatives in 1980 in april of 84 which happened to be the next time that he was up for parole so he thought that he was going to have nowhere to go and nowhere to live and shit like that so you know all this sort of shit uh so they were going to leave everything and she had a lot of money, apparently. She had property. She had the Flagstaff Taxi Company. Yeah, and apparently they saved a lot and they bought property and made investments. Yeah, they weren't stupid.

She had what they call in court documents a sizable estate. So I don't know what that is, but too much for this fucking idiot. So, Jesus Christ. I'll bet it's more than a half million dollars. It probably is in that money, in 84 money, too. How old was she? 74. Yeah, I'll bet there was probably a half million dollars there.

Probably, yeah. I wouldn't doubt it at all. So they said that they should, basically, he tries to get that suppressed, saying that they needed a warrant to search his legal documents. Not to search his prison cell, but to look through his papers, which they said. Not in a prison. You're in prison, stupid. You have zero assumption.

You don't have any rights. To any rights. Rights of privacy. Fuck you. Yeah, no, your rights of privacy. Anything that you have in prison. Your phone calls are recorded. It's just you're not.

Anything you're touching, we can open it and look at it. It's not known for its privacy in prison prison you shit in front of other people so you can take that that's a that shows you extrapolate that forward and everything else you do sees your dick when you piss that's what i mean the minimum amount of privacy would be just a private place to shit so if you don't even have that you have nothing there's no privacy anywhere because that'd be the first thing you would get um yeah so uh the guy who they talked to the pizza parlor owner who had known him mormon before because he supervised him while working in the prison he said that bobby seemed quote very nervous and he said quote i figured he'd done somebody in so that's okay uh another witness here who was from scally sally skelton yeah who

was the convenience store clerk she identified bobby as the man who purchased some knives for her and uh went all that sort of thing and she said that bobby said that he wanted a knife for a birthday present for his boy that doesn't exist for his son for his non-existent son the medical examiner testifies that maude died from asphyxiation as a result of being held something being held on her face blocking her air supply uh he said that between 12 hours and one and a half hours prior to her death she had sustained bruises also as a result of moderate force from a fist or blunt object on her upper arm upper left arm both breasts and her lower back wow i don't

know what's going on here punching the shit out of his mom in the tits i don't know i don't mean to laugh obviously it's terrible but jesus christ weird place to punch you doing this guy's a sick fuck man a lower back what a sick fuck like kidney punching her or something i don't know what a bad person uh he unless he was doing terrible things to her you know what i know what's going on raping her and punching her well from what he says it's the other way around but we don't know obviously that's we don't know what happened but there's yeah uh he also says the medical examiner between two and a half and one hour before her death she was cut by a knife uh that at uh on once on her right breast and five times on her right buttock

oh my god so there's that they found no defensive wounds on her hands because she was tied up admittedly and found no marks indicating that her wrists her ankles were bound though so i don't know what the fuck yeah that's the thing that's weird there's no yeah uh however her hands had been cut from her wrists and her feet from her ankles so they would have been harder to find these marks they said not not saying that she wasn't tied up from her ankles, so they would have been harder to find these marks. Good point. Not saying that she wasn't tied up. We just didn't find. They just could have been higher up.

It's one of those. It's like an instant replay in football. You're like, there's not enough evidence to overturn the call. We've got to go with the call on the field. But, you know, it's one of those. The bad camera angle on the wrists on this one. We just couldn't see it. The ref stepped in the way.

I don't know if she crossed the plane or not on that one. It's one of those. So, yeah, the ref's in the way i don't know if she crossed the plane or not on that one it's one of those so yeah the ref's in the way the camera angle uh the oh jesus christ this is this is crazy uh they also said the medical examiner found bruises in and around her mouth consistent with being gagged and they noted that the dismemberment of the body was very meticulous particularly cutting off the hands at the wrist the feet at the ankles then the fingers at the knuckles so he took his time yeah they said the entire process would have taken at least two hours to do uh the medical examiner found no evidence of sexual activity so no nothing there and tests run on the sheets and bed spreet fast bed spread and everything else found no evidence of semen

uh everything but the toilet apparently was tested because obviously we can't do that and the examiner could determine that maude was alive when she was bruised and cut he couldn't tell whether she was conscious but noted that the cuts would have been painful if she was conscious obviously uh reaction from the town and everybody else here a distant relative of maude named rex gillian who knew bobby here you know from being in the family he said that bobby was a quote throwaway child who never got the attention from most of the people in his life that the other kids ever that other kids received he says quote but the one person in the whole world who loved him unconditionally he kills brutally just summed up pretty fucking good for one of these relatives i would say what a fucking on the nose that's the most on the nose statement i've ever heard one person he had that's it he

hurts that person yep um the mayor of the town of florence michael tucker said he's quote a little upset with the furlough system here said because a little a little upset oh boy he said local officials weren't notified that an inmate was at the motel he said we should have been notified so we could have kept an eye on things and he said then the situation could have been monitored by police which it kind of was it really didn't want sitting out front at some point they're going to close the door unless they're going to sit in the room and say what's on tv tonight let's order a pizza then he's going to have time to do this also it's it's more the vetting it's it's who's deciding who gets to get out on these furloughs because that's a guy who never should have been able to especially after his initial crime and the the future mayor

and police chief rankin at this point he says that uh he was supportive of the system he said this is a quirk of fate the furlough program has been effective in the majority of the time i don't see that they should curtail the furlough system because of this murder maybe they could take a good look at who they furlough maybe do a little more testing there you go that's a good point there's the words there you go that's perfectly well yeah let's figure out if this guy if he's ever i don't know kidnapped and sexually assaulted an eight-year-old girl at gunpoint and planned to kill her don't let him out ever how about that how about we keep him away guy forever let's just keep him in what we call jail right that he's been every few hours get some eyeballs on yeah just hey he's

still there there is a deal any kids with him no excellent perfect what the fuck just get eyeballs on him on a clock schedule you know what we could have a paper that we fill out yeah there's a you know if they could have a building where they could house people like that where we could hire people to watch them and then write down that they've seen them and they're still there we could have something here treat him like one of those uh plastic shitters that are on the side of the road where it has a a date and time that you looked yeah do that with him like treat him like a plastic shitter and get eyeballs on him like a gas station bathroom there you go we should keep we should pay at least as much attention to a child molesting kidnapper as the gas station bathroom.

Right? I think that's fair. Or the Olive Garden. Or the Olive Garden. Any fucking place that has a shit. Any piece of shit bathroom. The Olive Garden is a gas station bathroom. The whole restaurant.

Fuck that place. I'd rather eat in a gas station bathroom. Let's just treat him like a shitter always. Every way that you would treat a shitter, treat him that way. Because he is a shitter. would treat a shitter treat him that way he is a shitter so his defense attorney here uh thomas kelly uh he he's um he's gonna call a psychologist obviously to testify that bobby is legally fucking out of his mind cuckoo for cocoa puffs basically is what they're what they're doing here uh he started the attorney started to lay out the groundwork for the insanity defense.

He recalled three prosecution witnesses at the start of the trial, including a prison officer and a guard, to give their opinion on what they felt about him, just talking to him every day. Does he seem like the same guy to you? A former officer, it was Daniel Schrote and George Johnson. These are prison officers here. They said that, man, they said they talked to Bobby,

and he always had what they called, quote, far-fetched ideas, you know, like teaching dogs to make bank deposits, about money and making money. He's fucking nuts. He said that most prison inmates talk about making money, but that Robert's ideas were way more far-fetched. The other guy said... I like that a dog deposits him.

They're saying the word fetch. Fetched. Far-fetched. If he was withdrawing, it'd be really good. It's far-fetched. Fetch my money. It's awesome. So the other guy said, quote, he was always telling me how he was going to make a million.

He's described him as a well-behaved inmate. But, quote, he wasn't all there is what he said. He said, quote, I don't think he should be on a 72 hour pass outside prison walls is what this guy said. So they they offered the will as a as a as a doctored will and the fake letter as evidence. Obviously, mental experts came in. The defense calls one, Dr. Overbeck, a psychologist. He interviewed Bobby for almost 10 hours over five sessions, gave him psychological tests, reviewed his lengthy history in school and prison records.

He concluded that Bobby suffers from organic delusional syndrome, pedophiliailia and schizoid personality disorder right that is fucking none of that quite the full house they're retarded and that's what happened in the 50s is that they were misdiagnosing yeah they just oh that was a huge umbrella yeah anybody who's not straight and narrow normal we consider in the realm of consent in class and keep straight forward and be whatever retarded and they just put them over there. Give them the fat cranes and stick them in the corner. That is a huge danger to society. Yeah.

Just going off the fact that those general diagnoses are dangerous. They're wrong. They're horrifying. Especially when you mix them together. Right. That's a terrible mental cocktail. That's a bad cocktail. So he said he was unable to appreciate the nature and consequence of his actions when he killed his mother.

This doctor also noted that a delusional diagnosis is difficult because it depends on whether or not you believe the fact that whether or not you believe Bobby's allegations of that he was having a sexual relationship with his mother for the last 25 years, which is what he claims. It doesn't matter. Yeah. The state called three expert witnesses. Dr. Cleary, who's a court-appointed psychiatrist, he diagnosed Bobby as suffering from pedophilia. Everybody's clear.

Everybody's on that one. We nailed that one. We nailed that one. He's fucking eight-year-old. He's definitely a pedophile. That's one. You can check that box and go from there. Anti-social personality disorder is what he also said said so you can get people and they'll all give him different diagnoses uh this doctor stated that he did not believe that bobby was unable

to understand and appreciate the nature of his actions although uh knowledge of his bizarre writings and some of his statements on the day of his crime he said made him less certain of his conclusion but that's still his conclusion but once i read about the dog thing literally like the dog bank thing that was like the guy was like maybe he's not all there like he doesn't get it yeah the finger thing like he was all sorts of uh is he a genius or is he insane yeah which one is he thomas edison or do we have you know just fucking which one which one is it so So another guy, Dr. Tuchler, he said that he diagnosed Bobby on four prior occasions being in his teens.

He was his old psychiatrist. He testified that Bobby does not suffer from organic delusional syndrome. He testified that Bobby is a pedophile with an antisocial personality disorder, which is quite a lot to put out. Listen, he's not this and that. You're just a pedophile with an antisocial personality disorder. You're a, you're a, that's quite the label. He's a, uh, he's a kid fucker who just, he's just disassociated with everything.

He's a fucking asshole kid fucker. Is that something? Is that legal? Certainly murder. Oh, he'll kill people that he is capable of understanding his actions however though he does believe that he does believe bobby when he told him about the incestuous relationship with his mother and that he had sex with her that night and that she wanted her breast pinched her breasts pinched and that she was making noises. Bobby's story is that he was doing things to her

and she wanted her breasts pinched and he was doing that and she was making noises of... Passion. Passion. And he put the pillow over her face so he wouldn't hear her and he says to this doctor

that this death was accidental. Right. He's apparently been telling this doctor about this incestuous relationship for a long time. For a long time. So this is not a new thing that he's apparently been telling this doctor about this incestuous relationship for a long time so this is not a new thing that he's telling a new person this guy believes the relationship because he's been telling him about it for years so this guy says that he believes that it was accidental this psychiatrist and then another one a neurologist to examine him testified he found no evidence of organic brain defect but he couldn't

rule out the possibility. So basically, my testimony is useless, and you should have not called me here. This was a big waste of time. I shouldn't have put a suit on today. Thank you very much. Have a good one. Can you guys read back the transcript? Because that was more valuable than what I just did. Yeah.

Can we do a small-town murder-piece theater? 3,000. That's better. So yeah, the estate was valued, by the way, at over $200,000. There you go. They're saying that's the motive uh yeah the estate was valued by the way at over two hundred thousand dollars there you go they're saying that's the motive here to be placed that was going to be in a trust but would allow her son to receive only interest payments because she thought he was too wacky to do anything about it uh which is nothing two hundred thousand dollars in 85 that's something is it i mean yeah that's a lot 200 grand is still pretty good now. It's probably a few hundred bucks a month.

I bet it's not that much. Do you trust? If you're him, though, you can live on that in Florence in 1985. Maybe so. You can probably live on that and get by or at least have beer money or something. I don't know. What the fuck? In the words of Tim, that's not enough to get by.

That's not enough to get by. 200 grand in 1985 is a lot. I'll take 200 grand now and be very excited about it. I'll be thrilled. I'll lose my fucking mind. Absolutely. The weird part is the fact that the letter that he had from her that explained the transaction of the will being changed said that RHM Enterprises, which is Robert Henry Mormon Enterprises, she was going to give her whole estate for 200 shares of stock in RHM Enterprises.

And, yeah, there's no, like, state record of a business. Those are $1,000 a share? Yeah. It's not like he has, like, you know, this isn't like an LLC he has. They just incorporate it. It's fine. It's not like he has like, you know, this isn't like an LLC has or like a just incorporated. It's fine. It's got nothing. So it's dated and makes reference to the date of January 13th, which was the day she was killed.

So he did this beforehand, but dated it because it was in prison. He couldn't have done it while he was out. He did it before he left prison, but dated it the day she died. Wild. Like he fucking planned this it's super weird uh also yeah he doesn't want a bunch of pictures to be let in a couple very specific pictures oh i can imagine uh this is pretty graphic one is of uh maude's head uh-huh uh just sitting there and another is a slide showing the left side of her pelvis with decomposed bowel. Oh, Jesus.

Awful. Yeah. No one wants to see that. So this thing goes to the jury here and they are they discuss jury instructions. And the trial judge says that he was inclined to give the jury an option of convicting him on second degree murder or manslaughter, as well as first degree murder there. second degree murder or manslaughter as well as first degree murder there uh so uh they the mormon his attorney said that he had discussed it with bobby and that they decided they only wanted the jury to hear first degree murder really so they wanted either first degree murder or we walk oh yeah or that's what they wanted so that's what it ends up being because in their case they

figure they can teach they can muddy the waters enough to make them think that maybe he didn't mean to. And it's not first degree murder. And no one's going to convict someone of first degree murder, especially when, oh, by the way, the death penalty is on the table when they don't think he did it on purpose. So that's their their thought process that we'll have a better chance of getting off. If there is like a manslaughter, he's definitely getting that. So after two hours of deliberation, which is not very longlaughter he's definitely getting that yeah uh so after two hours of deliberation which is not very long that's barely long enough to fill out paperwork yeah they find him guilty of first degree murder and uh reject the old insanity defense done deal

done deal with that sentencing comes around okay uh trial judge gets a pre-sentencing report and uh you know holds a hearing and all this type of shit where his his counsel argues that his inability to fully understand his actions and record of good conduct in prison weighed in favor of a life sentence the judge though found three statutory aggravating factors here a prior life sentence that he was in prison for at the time uh a motive of money which is not okay and cruel and heinous or depraved murder and only one mitigating factor which is diminished diminished diminished ability to understand his actions and uh says you sir yes may fuck off death penalty hell yeah so he gets the death penalty here uh yeah he's you know i don't know well boy

wow how are you gonna how are you gonna fucking have any sort of argument to the contrary for that he has an appeal yeah bust through an appeal quick because it's really kind of weird here uh he says the aggravating that the the aggravating factor the murder was committed and especially cruel heinous or depraved matter uh is not supported by the evidence here. To find cruelty, the court must find beyond a reasonable doubt that the victim was conscious during the attack and that the defendant knew or should have known that the victim would suffer. That's how it was here. The medical examiner testified that she'd been bruised and cut in the hours before her death, and these bruises were partially particularly the larger cuts would have been painful if she was conscious and they go from there uh also in his confession he said that they had argued and that he hit her in the head during the argument and then he tied her up and

we went from there so uh they said you know this is uh she suffered emotional physical mental anguish before she died so fuck you bobby is what they say uh he's previously been convicted of an offense that was punishable by life in prison so that's bad against him all the factors seem to be against him in this point uh he also stated that the victim was most likely awake when some of the wounds were inflicted so that's that's a problem as well and that was in his own confession right so uh also they say they they they've state proved these factors he also says they didn't consider mitigating evidence and they said sure we did so that's that

mitigated the shit out of it yeah we we looked it over and we said there's a head right so that's going to outweigh you being a little fucking stupid. How's that, dummy? So they also said the search warrant or what I told you about what you're listing and all that. That ends up being put aside. Also, ineffective assistance of sentencing counsel. And this is a big deal. He asserts that he's ineffective for failing to present evidence or argument that Bobby was severely mentally ill and that the victim's death was accidental, neither motivated by desire for monetary gain nor cruel, heinous and depraved actions, failing to object to certain opinions of Maud's family about him,

failing to object to the trial court's restriction on mitigation and failing to object to information in the pre-sentence report or provide information from the report. and failing to object to information in the pre-sentence report or provide information from the report. He says that the substance of these claims were, basically, they said that it was presented and dismissed, and the guy should have re-presented it and didn't. So the appeal here, they do find that the attorney in the sentencing phase was ineffective in failing to present on direct appeal and if he had after the denial of his first appeal gone back in with another one before it timed out then he would have had a chance at that appeal so they do say that he is ineffective and they did fuck it up and so they affirm the conviction but vacate the sentence in part and remand it back for

resentencing so it's a one of these deals where much it's all in the air here um they go back to court and they say no we're gonna kill him yeah we're definitely gonna kill this guy yeah it's just there's gonna hang on to that one we'll do it now does anyone have any 409 i'll just spray it in his mouth because this fucking guy's an asshole so uh he's getting death here in prison. He starts writing a lot. Yeah. He has a pen pal request. Oh, boy.

In prison. Hello. Hi. My name is Robert Mormon. Yeah. I'm a death row prisoner in Florence, Arizona. Interested yet? You might as well put that in and say that I am 55 years old, born on the 4th of June,

1948. I just want to find some pen pals who don't mind writing to a man on death row. I'm 5'10", brown hair, eyes and hair, 195 pounds. I like, colon, writing poetry, short stories, comma, to different people all over. Music, country, western, rock and roll, others. No hobbies allowed in this area. So no hobbies. TV, Star Trek trek type shows talk shows

mysteries you know the shit that's on the four channels we get in here whatever's on the wb or the cw equivalent of this shit uh then he's like usa wgn i like you know the channels that we get on the antenna uh he used to like he puts camping fishing hunting hiking death row inmate since 85 came to prison in 72 will answer all letters and questions i would love to correspond with any age and race i love to read and write or write and read he said write and write and read please send your shit to there he also does some essays here's one uh you want to hear one about jesus kind of it's kind of good yeah i hear people ask why does uh or did god let bad things like that happen and why does he let people like that live and where god where is god or is there no god

why do bad things happen to us or friends or family or others god gave each person free will to choose the path they want to follow yeah i should have said motherfucker at god's path which is hard at times or satan's path which is easy but leads to no good none of it's easy no that's it's just life motherfucker even selling drugs is hard yeah they work hard they're working 24 7 watch goodfellas that shit's exhausting that wasn't easy the end of, he's got bags under his eyes. He'll be coked to stay away. He's got a lot of shit going on. He's got tomato sauce

and helicopters. There's all sorts of things happening. It might sound easy prostituting. It might sound easy dancing for money. It's so hard. Awfully hard. The schedule that you're keeping

is fucking miserable. Yes. When bad happens, do you seek revenge over forgiving, letting the person be punished by man? Revenge is a path to Satan's path. Forgiving is the path of god all right that's good here he's got a few

more god things uh each of us blah blah blah i choose to follow jesus all right then he's got one about hate here's this is a good one these are all very very uh transparently i'm not that bad please you know why does society think i'm bad hate we see hate every day and night and we read about it in our newspapers on tv and radio we speak it to ourselves i hate that person i hate my wife or children or neighbor i hate that criminal i hate that child fucker oh that's good did he say that oh yeah that rapist that fucking murderer uh why do we hate kane brought hate and murder into the world hate equals murder i john i john 315 says was he john 315 now whoever's who's ever hateth his brother all people are our brothers blah blah blah blah blah catholic bible

says some other shit i'm going to skip over that kane and abel hate is easy to do it does not need to be an action of murder that turns you into a murderer it's the feeling of hate speaking of hate writing of hate that turns you into a murderer not really no there's a lot of shitty people that don't kill anybody uh so he says love equals god hate equals satan love one another then he's got one called responsibility okay i like that he calls these essays uh these take zero thought no they're just words that you just spew out they don't even fucking rhyme man yeah they're not poems it's so boring he's this is a this is a manifesto he talks about people that he says for many years i hear people blaming others for their problems or for being in prison yes i even blamed

others it's easier to blame someone else. He goes through all this. He says they say things like most people who are abused and don't hurt and hurt don't abuse others or do crimes. I was abused, hurt, and I don't do crimes. They say that blaming others or drugs is only an excuse. Yes, many people can and do accept responsibility for their lives, but there are those who can't deal with them and deal what was done to them. Examples. An abused child grows up full of shame. No one believes what he's saying. Such people strike out for different reasons.

One is asking for help in a very sick way. Another is doing to others what is done to him or her because no one cares. A woman is raped. She withdraws into herself or turns totally against men and becomes what some call an old maid or a lesbian or a 100 man hater his sociological takes are just out there how many women is he seen raped and hurts men and maybe kills too not so much really that's usually not the way that goes um yeah he goes on to say wow uh then he has one called closure and he talks about i really i wish i could get some talks with him on on his theories of women yeah being raped and how that affects talk about psychology this guy cat ladies is that what you're saying he's saying they become cat

lesbian cat ladies i believe is what he was saying That's the only cause of that is that. So, okay. Then he goes on to say that hate is bad and you shouldn't get closure out of other people being shitty and being dead and things like that. So then in 2007, he has a major stroke. Okay. Okay. Recovers. Yes.

2011, he has some health problems yeah he has to have an emergency appendectomy i'll get it out of there and when they're doing it they realize that his heart is all clogged up oh let's open that so they bring him in for a quintuple bypass yeah so well you paid for it so maybe not hell yeah so listen this is okay. Keep the heart pumping. He's going. Yeah, 2011, that is. By 2012, he's the longest serving prisoner among the death row inmates. Because technically, he's been in since 72. Yeah. 39 years there.

And February 24th, 2012 is his last appeal here. Yeah. He has a clemency hearing. He says he no longer remembers the details of the murder other than touching his mother's breasts while she was tied to a bed and later carrying her body to the bathroom he says quote i remember she was tied up but i don't remember doing it i just remember seeing my hands doing things they're like well you're going to be seeing your body not living doing anything so he says uh in this thing he relies on the affidavit of a

psychologist in this clemency appeal stating that one of his two recently administered tests shows mormon's iq to be below 70 okay now the psychologist expressed the opinion uh on this thing quote if the time and resources are obtained to conduct a formal assessment mormon would qualify for the mental retardation diagnosis mormon seeks more time for further tests that might conclusively establish his iq has been diminished by recent surgery and a stroke in 2007 now the supreme court does not define mental retardation as a matter of federal law but arizona fucking sure does yes uh yeah he presented his claim to the supreme court of arizona and they denied it uh they didn't they determined his medical history

and basically under the law uh it expressly notes that arizona law quote a defendant is not statutorily deemed to have had mental retardation unless he has a full scale iq of 70 or lower and the onset of the condition occurs before the age of 18. So they legally say what the fuck that is there. It can't be something that happened recently. So, yeah, they end up, they have a lot of evidence that they've done this with other people, and they say they're going to do it again.

They say because Mr. Weinstein intends to testify that Mormons recent IQ scores were affected by his post-trial medical conditions, even if credited, his affidavit does not constitute clear and convincing evidence that his mental retardation in childhood, only that his mental medical problems have lowered his IQ now. So February 29th is execution day here. Leap year. Leap year. Look at that. That's amazing. Yeah, not bad. There's a leap year, too. And February 29th execute. That was last year.. Leap year. Leap year. Look at that. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, not bad, right? This year's a leap year, too.

Yeah, February 29th. I thought it was last year. No, this year. The 20th. Is it? 2020. Motherfucker. It's every four years.

Yeah, that's right. I don't know what I was thinking there. So, February 29th, 2012. Yeah, da-da-da. Yeah. Anyway, Execution Day here. Day starts. Yeah.

He meets with a Catholic deacon, and he tells him he's ready to go home. Hell yeah. He said he's hoped that he'd be all healed after his execution. He says that he prayed, and he said, quote, I trust God, and that he would repeat Jesus' name in his heart

as he died. His last meal here, served his last meal the night before, between 7 and 7.30 p.m. It consisted of, they call it two hamburgers, but it's not. It's one double hamburger, which is two quarter-pound patties, prepared medium, we requested, with two slices of onion,

three leaves of lettuce, and three tomato slices as well. Very specific. Very specific. Well, this is what they... It's prison. The prison has to tell it what they doled out. Plus French fries with four ounces of ketchup. So you get that.

Four ounces? That's four shots. That's a lot. That's a lot of ketchup. I'll use that on a burger and fries. I love ketchup. Okay, if he's doing it on both. Two three-ounce beef burritos.

Good. Two little beef burritos. Three RC colas there. And two 14-ounce containers of Rocky Road ice cream, cream just in case they did offer him a light breakfast but he didn't think he accepted it there uh there was a 15 to 20 minute delay in the execution process that was never explained but then they bring him in now the other thing in the last minute appeal was this is going to be the first man executed in arizona by the single drug not the cocktail not the three drug

basically what it is is an overdose of barbiturates they give you like you die like a wrestler in a hotel room hell yeah if they gave you if they gave you like fucking 10 shots beforehand right and then they gave it to you'd be like basically you die like every wrestler that from the 80s has died in a hotel room so uh uh he when the execution starts he's smiling at the witnesses uh smiles at them they give him his last words which are quote i hope that this will bring closure and that they can start the healing now i just hope they will forgive me in time and uh yeah they give him the cocktail here uh the single drug and uh it took about the same time to kill him as with the three drugs except this shit did

not go quietly no uh there was a head going back and forth and a lot of uh gurgling and moving huffing and puffing and moving and it's not exactly what they want out of a lethal injection let they kind of want that shit to be quiet they you know they changed the gas chamber because someone's head popped off this shit they don't like right i just find this okay anyway they they end up and he's he's dead they close the chamber and he's done and uh you know they bury him in the prison yard and that's that uh that's the end of robert mormon and i just okay we we are very weird us over here people have very strong opinions on the death penalty and we have it's so hard because we don't you know who are we to fucking say you know that somebody did it and there's so many mistaken death penalty things it's one of those where if the person definitely did it

and they're a horrible person they killed somebody that you want them i get it but i also okay they describe what like you know cruel and especially depraved behavior would be like right which is the person being conscious and awake and aware and you're doing this shit anyway is the exact description of the execution process is exactly what we say someone is a monster if they do right like if someone kills someone in an argument or even a robbery we think of that person as less depraved as if they like held them and tortured them for hours and let them know they're told them they're gonna die and said you're gonna die at this time and then i'm gonna kill you how about a last meal

if someone did the exact yeah think about if someone did the exact state execution process to a victim right anything i'll go out and get you fucking ice cream i don't how many pickles how many how many i'll get specific imagine that road pints you want imagine they did that let you talk to a priest told you what time they're gonna die we'll get out there tied you down and did it dude that's fucking we would go you sick motherfucker how soon can we kill him in the exact same way how can we do the exact same thing and call it humane that makes me uncomfortable at the same time as i just wanted somebody to back over this guy with a truck at the same time like he we don't need this fucking guy a pedophile who kills his mother we don't need him at all we shouldn't have given him the opportunity to kill his mom that's what i mean

like we don't need this guy at all so i don't want good things to happen to him but at the same time i have a we struggle with we struggle with the fact that we cheer that they killed him but at the same time we're like god damn it but it's creepy and i don't feel like i like it even though we know he did this it's not there's no chance that this was a mistaken thing and exactly he definitely did this shit either way i don't know that's florence arizona the place is a fucked up mess of disastrous dirt and dust and tornadoes and botched what are those things dust devils that's not tornadoes no yeah they're dust devils yeah that's right yeah it's just uh uh looks like it could be a tour is that gonna get bigger it's just a tiny tornado is that just gonna track across the desert and remind us that this place is gross it's there it is it's picking up more gross stuff get out of

its way exactly so that's florence arizona everybody uh if you enjoyed that i know what you can do about it get on apple podcasts or even stitcher especially too and give us five stars it doesn't matter what you say say you're following instructions following directions it's dark in here please help me whatever you feel like saying do all of that follow us on social media we are at murder Small on Twitter and at Small Town Pod on Facebook, at Small Town Murder on Instagram, and you can find out the exact date of that Phoenix show. It's in the fall, I'll tell you that much,

but you can find the date of that Phoenix show, of shows, I should say, because Crime and Sports is there as well. Also, head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com where you can get all of your merchandise, all of your Small Town Murder and your Crime and Sports gear, and you can get all of your merchandise, all of your small town murder and your crime and sports gear, and you can get tickets to upcoming live shows.

They've been crazy. There's so much. This year's shows are a different level of crazy. They're awesome stories that are just wild, and we're having so much fun with them, and the crowds are too, and it's just next level crazy. A lot of fun fun fun

shit so come out to a live show and see us there uh next live shows are in san francisco on and when they march 13th and 14th friday and saturday night at cobs comedy club their theater whatever it is and uh we're doing late show 10 o'clock each night come out and see us please hang out with us there also if you want to be a huge hero to the show yeah as a lot of you have been in our and uh i'm blown away by everybody like that if you want to be a hero of ours and be one of our producers you can do that excessively easily by going over to patreon.com slash crime and sports or you can head over to paypal and use our email address crime and sports at gmail.com, and you will be one of our heroes.

And also, if your Patreon's over $5 a month, you get all the bonus stuff. We had a crazy-ass bonus episode last week. Oh, was it great? Put out another wild one next week. We're going to do stuff, lots of bonus stuff. We have all sorts of shit planned for this year for you guys, kind of an extra little thing for us. So we're real excited for that.

We can't wait. And speaking of those wonderful, wonderful people, Jimmy, walk up to the counter like a dog making a deposit and tell me all these names. I need them. This week's executive producers are Jules and John Harris. They came to the show in Louisville, and she does produce and shit, and her husband had to deal with her being an arugula specialist for a while, which is pretty awesome. She owns every single shirt that we ever made. That's amazing.

Thank you so much. That's so cool. Drinks with them, they're great people. So cool. Tom Palumbo, Brian Miller, Kate Lyons, Reagan Andrus, Darren Foreman,

Kerry Clark, Park Gary, Clay Thorson. Hey, Clay. Clay was cool. Did I say Clark? No, you said Clay. Did I say Gary, Clay Thorson. Hey, Clay. Clay was cool. Did I say Clark? No, you said Clay. Did I say Clay? Clay Thorson. It was great to meet you, Clay. Paul Ruwest,

Lonnie Hall, Tim Sparling, Ryan Ingram, Chris Parlecow, I think so. Parco. It's a difficult one. Chris, if you ever wanted to figure out different ways. I gave you all of them.

You gave me every name. Christy Lane. Caitlin Williams. Tonya Volanek. G. G. Wayne. I almost called him Gwaine.

G. Wayne Peterson. Gwaine. And the Happy Birthday Group, because it's my birthday, they all came together and donated for us. That was very nice. That's so nice. Brandon Simpson.

Jordan Bennett. Jordan Bennett and Olna. Olna. No. That was very nice. Brandon Simpson, Jordan Bennett, and Olna. Olna. No. Is that Olna? No. Olivia. Olivia Brist.

That's what that is. That's our executives this week. You guys were so nice to us. Thank you for everything. Thank you so much. Other producers this week are Beth Kay, Ashley Hudson, Nate Cracked, Amber Helton, Brandon McCreight, Jennifer Justice Thompson, Nore noreen jones yes uh cara glidewell that's a difficult one yeah uh i think no it's kind of flirty little last name

sleeper snakes no yes sleeper sharks uh christina day yep uh alana popolowski katie rose popolowski no problem no what am i doing jennifer hugo beck Becky Doherty, Emma Steer, Dan Lemond, Torsten Olay, Olgy? What did I do there? Oles? Torsten. Oh, that's what it is. 015. It's, I don't know.

Oh, okay. Torsten. Thank you, Torsten. It's not a word. No. That's why I tried to make a word out of letters or numbers. Nice try. Lauren Augusto, john kessner uh

andrew hayes kelly kelly meyer or mayor that's mayor uh sarah damn it sarah walters kyle with no last name cindy sutton nicholas mel melbourne melbourne uh luke link link faxton yeah jesus what am I doing? Adam McLaughlin. This is going to be forever. Sorry, guys. Adam McLaughlin. Rachel Brabok.

Nicole Benson. Linda with no last name. Susan Norris. Morris. Lish. Lish. Lisa Rose. Lish.

I know. I know. Nina Colliver. Michelle Boulder. Robin Bartlett. Asnikar. Get your ass in the car. Get your ass in the car, kid. Susan Gibbs, Lee and Sabine Horgan, Josh Hudson, Stephen Scriber, Matt Andrus, Karina Carpenter,

Sue Reynolds, Lisa Tucker, Katie Krug, Mark G with no last name. Oh, yeah. Mark G, no last name. Roy Shadel, Mark G. No last name. Roy Shadel. That's all of them. James Twomley. I think Twomley. Twomey. That's it.

Twomey. Twomey. Okay, this one. Peter Vichabonda. Vichabonda. Vichichd. Vichit. Mr. Bonda.

Yeah, long last name. Mel Kirkman. Tim Young. Ashley. Ashley. Jill and Haid. Katie. Mel Kirkman. Tim Young. Ashley Jill and Haid. Kelly Masterharm. Sarah Young. Benjamin Glatzer. Benjamin Glatzer. Aaron Hudson.

Kevin O'Brien. Janelle LaPierre. Josh Fields. Thomas Boyce. Aaron Lewis, probably not the singer, Bearded Assassin, John, no, Jolie.

What is that? Jowie? John? I think it's John Busby. What do you think the odds are? It's John or Jowie? Which one? I'm going to go with odds.

It's probably Jowie. I would think. Chris Kennedy, Christopher Sullivan. God damn it. Kyle Berktold, Brandon Clifton. Craig would know last name. Kiana would know last name.

Catherine Berliner, Andrew Moss. Lisa DeLafter, I think. Julia Elizabeth, Kaylin Bancroft. Jen Guerin, Donna Thurman, Tom Panos. Christopher, no, it's just Chris R rostow uh melissa hirsch bean annalise de pile de pill do pill i think it's french hey uh carrie slosson uh carrie oh then sherry sherry seaford yes sherry seaford home stretch of a fucking entire last page yeah alissa alissa hagler tyler ford sarah wehrle, Bill Sosinski, Morgan Walker, Terry Henderson,

Vanessa Tammers-Evaldi, Brian Riley, Aspen Cloud, Ashley Veo, We The Bozzes, We The Yo Bozzes, that's what it is, Veronica Minor, Heather Mendoza, Aaron with no last name, John Knickerbocker, Jesse Hartman, Michael Jarling, Thomas Slater, Betsy Basau, Liz Vasquez, James Marder, George Armstrong, Alicia Kempen, and Alicia, somebody wanted me to tell her Happy Valentine's Day. Well, that's what that was. Happy Valentine's Day. Robin Pocket, because, you know, Pocket Robin.

Yes. Dylan Watkins, Kim, no, Pam Dallas, Lori Bobskill, Aaron Berkner. By the way, at live shows, you'll find out actually the origins of Pocket Robin and where he came from. Not the episode, but where he himself came from. Brittany Hart, Meg Stoneburner, Tara Davis, Regan Shalkley, Craig Ventura, Carol Murphy, Carol Weigel, Kristen Hopper, Nicole with no last name, Jimmy Seal, Peyton Meadows, Tamsen Harker, George, no, Gabrielle, sorry. Gabrielle Mooney, that's not George. Carlson, no.

Carson Bockhoven, Ken Thompson, Patricia Wazel, or Wazel, or Wazel, Jen Britsman, Raul Segala, Dominicus, yeah, yeah Saxon I think Lacey Lacey hasn't called Tanya Kersey Cody Leverson she hasn't called no she hasn't

Tim Wallachin Nishiko Hideki Jody Zastrow Rasmussen Nicole Howard that's the most Japanese name we've ever had it was thank you

Dirty Dyke oh Dirty Dick. Jesus. The complete opposite, actually. You couldn't get more opposite. You fucked it up so bad. Dirty Dick, Daryl Dinkins. You've never fucked anything up so bad.

Kerry Myler. Ah, Kelly Myler. Lauren McDonald. Jeff Rash. Amy Spicer. Gary Howard, Rachel Jordan, Taylor Jordan, and Sierra Breeze, Sarah McLeod, Kevin Bartlett, Jana with no last name, Daniel Wilson, Desiree Mormon, Andrew Pennington, Nicole Frank, 810 Studio, Stacey B., Robin Dean, Thriller Jackson, Wayne Peterson. Oh, that's G. Wayne. He donated both ways. Thank you. Oh, thank you.

Stuart, no last name, Max Thomas, Alicia Kempen. That's the Happy Valentine's Day part. I told you I got that in there. I knew it. Carmen Macchiato. Hmm, Macchiato? No, it's Marcianda. That's what it is.

Jackie Sukup, Tegan butko no boyko boyko boyko jesus god damn it robin dean i said that uh michael powell chelsea running tegan boyko that's where it is janice hill brendan ables christine mcgregor jude kendall james larusa uh janice clett uh christina thomas larry butterfast steven rude lianza rakowski crystal Jude Kendall, James La Russa, Janice Klett, Christina Thomas, Larry Butterfast, Stephen Rood, Lianza Rakowski, Crystal Walker, Brenna Potter, Brianna Potter. No, that's Brennan Potter. Amanda Knight, Susanna Platt, Maria Llew. Mark Foster, Lavinia Lengenga.

No, no, no, no, no, no, it's Lavinia Lengeli. That's what it is wow ashley collins thank you nicole mccrainer allison speltz appreciate it tracy renninger uh ashley bowden greg gottlieb andrea webster ron starnes heather mendoza thank you very much rachel peterson and dylan irish holy shit thank you so much and thank you to all of our Patreon supporters. You guys are fucking amazing. We cannot thank you enough. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you so, so much. And what if people wanted to get a hold of you and tell you how to pronounce their name? How could they do that? You can find me at Whisman Sucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks on Twitter, Instagram and Snapchat like Jill Williams, John Miller, Bailey in Kentucky, and Joe Bill Taylor proposed to Brooke Patterson at our show in Louisville. Or Indy. He just wanted to get a mic and he didn't get a mic, so he did it in the

parking garage. How sweet was that? Thank you guys so much. Thank you. I'm glad you guys got it done. We do our best. Just like you guys do. Thank you for that. And everything like that. So where can they find you again? I said it. WHIS on ANSOX. you like they found me and they can find you where oh jesus you can find me at jimmy p is funny or just copy and paste my name from the show description

and save yourself a lot of misspellings and going who the fuck is that so it'll uh save you a little bit of that and keep coming back holy shit good balls yeah it's been a crazy episode i have to say uh there's nothing more to say than dogs making bank deposits people losing yeah it's been a crazy episode i have to say uh there's nothing more to say than dogs making bank deposits people losing fingers it's like losing them like i can't find it what a show shit's going on shit's crazy and uh it's gonna keep getting crazy and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wond. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free

with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.