Small Town Murder - #161 - Killing On Consignment in Nashville, Michigan

Episode Date: March 5, 2020

This week, in Nashville, Michigan, when a body is found in a ditch, on the side of a country road, police have no clues, until a used motorcycle leads to a witness that unveils a plot that no one could have predicted. But what could the motive possibly be? Revenge? Money? Close living quarters? And what could make a daughter testify against her own mother? You'll definitely be surprised at the craziness!! Along the way, we find out that Michigan loves maple syrup, that too many people in the same living space can lead to violence, and that testifying against your own mother might not be cool!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Nashville, Michigan, a body found in a ditch on the side of a country road leads to an investigation that unveils a plot that no one could have expected. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigal. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Westman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another wild, incredible, crazy, downhill, just crazy. It's a snowball, is what what it is of small town murder. We're very, very excited this week, as always here. Thank you.

First of all, right off the bat, got to thank everyone for everything you've done for us this week. Your reviews help a lot. Thank you for those. If you haven't done it yet, that purple icon, Apple podcasts, or even on Stitcher, five stars means a lot. We don't know why helps drive you up the charts to be a thing say something on there i'm not sure whatever you want to say it

doesn't matter it's not for our ego no it's just for business purposes so uh help us out on that also head over to shut up and give me murder.com all sorts of stuff merchandise up there hell yeah most of all though tickets to live shows yes Yes. Oh, my goodness. We are coming for you. San Francisco coming up very soon here. What's next week? That is next week, the 13th and 14th, Friday and Saturday night late shows there at Cobb's. That's going to be so much fun. And then, of course, a couple weeks later, the 27th and 28th in Detroit, Michigan.

Yes. And down in Cincinnati. So come see us there. And we are very excited. Then, of course we'll be in nashville tennessee after that and uh we'll see what happened there oh boy yeah that's that's great with all of you absolutely what a disaster how does that even i saw i saw the video of it yeah of that tornado how the fuck does that even nature is scary yeah man that's that's scary

and uh tornadoes are weird because they're mainly only on this continent, too. Is that right? Yeah. Nobody else gets them. It's once in a while, but it's not a common occurrence. Like here, it's tornado season, and they're coming through. Like we'll be in Oklahoma City on May 9th in the middle of tornado season. They get tornadoes, too.

Constantly. Tornado season, as a matter of fact. The whole season for it. People of Nashvilleville i'm so sorry and definitely there's a jesse pitts who lives there he lost his family uh it's fucked up man yeah that's that's horrifying stuff and uh absolutely we're sorry i have zero i have i'm no not good at this no well it's not really our role no so uh thinking about you yeah that's right keep uh we'll tell dick jokes and try to cheer you up.

Outside of that, we don't have much else that we can really do for you. But thanks for listening. And hopefully everybody's OK over there. And I will check you guys out in April and see you there. See you there, everybody. Four weeks. Get the place back together. Absolutely.

Yeah. Come on. Put everything back together for us. Nicely. Let's go get those hammers out. Get J.J. Watt up there. Yeah. Get into something. So he's really good at Houston. Absolutely. Yeah, come on. Put everything back together for us nicely. Let's go. Get those hammers out. Get J.J. Watt up there. Hell yeah.

He's really good at Houston. Absolutely. Yeah, no, thank you guys for everything you do for us. Also, if you want to be one of our producers, very, very easy to do. You can do that by going to patreon.com slash crime and sports or head over to PayPal and use our email address, crime and sports at gmail.com. And of course, as we know, every couple of weeks we do the bonus episodes here. So that'll be out next week.

We'll do another bonus episode. Absolutely. So with that said, disclaimer time, it's a comedy show. It's a comedy podcast, man. That's what it is.

We're going to have a good time here. We're going to talk about murder. That's going to happen. People are going to get killed. But when you talk about a murder story, the great thing about a murder story is if there is anything great about it but the the reason why you can do comedy is because a murder story is one percent murder right and 99 crazy stuff that leads people to think they can get away with

murder that's that's a crazy thought think about the things that lead up to that there's some funny shit in there and that's what we're going to concentrate on here things like that but we go out of our way to do, to try not to do, is to make fun of the victims or the victim's family. We don't want to do that because we're assholes. What?

But we're not scumbags. There you go. That's what I'm talking about. So with that said, sit back, have a good time. For you guys who don't think that true crime and murder and comedy just don't ever go together,

you shouldn't listen to the show. Please don't listen, then complain later because we're telling you what it is. We're telling you what it is. Stop. You know better. You're a grown-up.

It's a true story. We're going to try to inject some humor so it's a little less depressing. We don't want to hear, and then their head was severed from the shoulders. That's a little heavy for us. It's bleak. So we try to minimize that stuff and maximize the fun stuff. So that's what we're going to do here. And with that said, everyone that wants to have a good time, I think it's time to sit back and shout.

Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. Okay. Let's go on a trip. Let's do it. Let's get out of Missouri. Yeah. Missouri last week.

It's sticky. It was weird. That was a weird place. There's always a buzz in the air. Yeah. Weird place. Weird crime. Yeah.

Small town. Yeah. That was like, that was a variety though last week we had that like uh you know we had that like small town he was a small town police chief so we really thought he was hot shit and they were kind of like a bunch of respectable people and all that this week we have the opposite okay this week we have just a family that lives on one there's vans and trailers and it's one property and uh it's all sorts of a mess it's a different thing this week completely a little more hillbillery going on terrific this week

panhandlery if you will uh we're going all the way to michigan nashville michigan oh which there was we didn't do that because nashville and literally just lined up this was in my schedule of episodes i had scheduled that happens to be nash Michigan. Weird. In this area, too, they have Charlotte. They have Vermontville. There's a bunch of... Everything's named after something else around here. Yes, there are. Very weird.

South Central Michigan, right in the middle there. But Michigan is just a bunch of panhandles. It is. It's just shooting out in every direction. So take from that what you will. It's going to be a mess. It's going to be a mess.

About two hours over to Detroit, down to the southeast. About three hours over to Detroit, down to the southeast. About three hours over to Chicago, if you go to the southwest. And eight hours to Nashville, Tennessee. We need to check on that. Okay. Far apart of the Nashvilles. This is in Barry County.

B-A-R-R-Y. Like white. Like white, exactly. 4-9-0-7-3 is the area code, or the zip code 517 is the area code 2.2 square miles little town okay it's a bunch of little towns and inside of a bigger township type thing got it and there's a bunch of townships but they're all it's so rural around this area it's very spread out that you know it's they're all very separate they're they're their own thing here uh now the history of this town to get into it a little bit here, we'll go quickly over the history.

The initial plot of Nashville was purchased by a guy named John R. Pettibone, which sounds like an old-timey name. That does not sound like anyone now. Right. If you met a guy and he said, John R. Pettibone, you'd be like, really? Is that made up? Are you a character in a play or something? Like T. Boone Pickens.

Yeah. Are you a play villain? Yeah. Do you have like twisting your mustache and flipping a nickel? Like what's going on here? Not anything is weird. Yeah. Pettibone.

But that sounds it sounds almost fake. Yeah. This was in 1836 here. They in 1865 by then someone else on the land, and they platted out 127 lots. It's on the south side of the Thorn Apple River. Very exciting stuff there. Yeah, they surveyed it out and did all that sort of shit here. And people started purchasing large swaths of land.

And one of the guys here, Solomon, this guy, what's his name? I don't know his first name. Solomon. name is solomon last name is solomon oh it's harry sol solomon fainer is his name solomon's his first name solomon fainer here he uh managed to get uh get the sawmill up and running in about 1865 and then sold it off there and as we know all these towns sawmills a big deal then they bring in the grist mill yeah once there's a grist mill i mean forget about it you might at that point you might as well build like a big theater downtown a town hall you've arrived there's a grist mill we have grist oh i'll commence construction everyone so much grist there's grist now here

so uh yeah it was just basically the town was kind of centered around this grain elevator and shit like that that they had. In 1873, they built a grain elevator alongside the railroad, I guess. And that made it so you could, I guess, haul grain easier and hold it and elevate it. Build it up. You could build it up and elevate it's like everything on the food network they were elevating their grain they had grain with the allegra they put caramelized onions on it and they did a little this and some truffle oil and it's elevated now

that's how it works in the 1800s that's how you elevate things groundbreaking yeah so then uh they uh 1916 the flour mill a flour was sold they had a flour mill it was sold as red eye flour it was called which sounds like it's going to wake you up that's a weird name for flower you don't want to be that's always what's in this flower yeah yeah red eyes is not good have you had some kind of like well like red eye meaning it's going to wake you up like the red eye blend of coffee would be like you're real tired this will kick in the balls i would imagine that tells me uh you're doing this when everybody else is sleeping and you're exhausted yeah like a flight this sucks yeah this is horse shit that's what i'm saying you're only doing this because you're a cheap

fuck that's what this is that's exactly what's going on here no i fly a lot of red eyes that's what happens they're the worst it's awful 18 or 1869 they still didn't have a name oh for the town they're just like it's just the town with a gristmill a couple of mills it's fine it's an elevated and somebody said hey we should have a name for this and a guy named uh garrod garudius garudius what garada garada nash suggested that his name be used what about my name about me so they said okay what about garada's town and they said how about nashville okay it's a compromise so yeah village of nashville was there uh nashville was the uses a halfway stopping point between the jackson and grand rapids railroad terminals by the way jackson was our last michigan episode absolutely oh that's right and it was a

shithole oh yeah oh boy there's a lot of shitholes in michigan you know i've that's the single most uh texted to me episode about how fucking dead on oh yeah and you know when we went to detroit everyone's like oh that jow jesus christ was that accurate oh they were like uh you could have gone harder because it's way worse yeah they're like i don't even i won't even stop for gas in that town people literally were like i won't slow down around there i'll blow right through a red light i've never gotten more messages it's crazy so uh prior to 1920 they used to have to stop in Hastings, these trains. They do overnights, and they required a hostler to tend the locomotives. A hostler is a, quote, person who takes care of horses, especially at an inn, or an employee who moves and services trains, buses, or other vehicles after they do maintenance work.

That guy comes in and does shit. Water my train. Overnight, yeah. Water my train and make sure it gets its oats. Feed it some of that elevated grain. That's elevated. Make sure you get the truffle oil on there. Now, I have some reviews of this town.

It just sounds like there's not a lot going on here. This is a three-star review, three out of five, so average. Quote, there are no big businesses in my town, but some of the mom and pop shops have not the best service. The restaurants are good quality. businesses in my town but some of the mom and pop shops have not the best service the restaurants are good quality the best town the best in town is shirley's chuck wagon and r and d's street side pizzeria shirley's chuck wagon gross essentially she flings it at you from a spatula here you go and throws it at you gotta catch it on your plate or eat it off the wall sounds like a food truck but not just like a food truck like She converted her Suburban. Yeah.

And now it's pulled by fucking horses or something. It's a chuck wagon. Shit's all over. We have a grocery store, the only one between Nashville and Vermontville, and they have okay prices. The people in the grocery store are very polite. That's the three stars. It would have been two, but those polite grocery store

employees took them over the top. Hire those people at the mom and pop stores. That's what I'm saying a two-star review as a former resident of nashville michigan i would never recommend that anyone travels or goes there unless you want some ice cream from the best creamery in michigan as we'll talk about that by the way they have an amazing ice cream place up there which okay with me i'm in it's moville ice cream oh yes moville ice cream and milk is the best i have encountered anywhere i have lived in many different states and countries since leaving nashville i tried many different brands of ice cream and milk but none compared to moville's it's the only bright

spot in a run downtown hell yeah just ice cream ice cream pun on a dr seuss line that's great and then two stars here quote there are not many jobs available, but when there are job openings, it seems to take a long time for them to get back to the applicant. Well, I mean, if you want to put on a happy face, you should apply at the grocery store. If you're polite enough, I feel like they'll take you. And you know what? Maybe they're giving you the opportunity to run down your own leads and come back and be like, what do you think?

You need to check up on them. It takes a long time. Maybe you need to. I still want that job. I applied for that job. Any word? There you go. Walk outside from that interview,

turn around and walk back in. What'd you think of that? A little follow-up. A little follow-up. Let's go here. Give a shit, sir. Give a shit about your goddamn career. You piece of shit.

You're going to be serving some of that strawberry spackle over at Moville. Lazy two-star asshole. That's the guy that moved out? No, this is another guy. He's apparently an unemployed fella looking for some work. He's furious.

It's taken a while. So he is taken to the internet to complain about it on a site about town statistics. He's like, it takes a while for them to get back to you. There you go. He felt better, but then the job wouldn't see that he complained right you know so people in this town jesus really relieved his grievance yeah he's like i feel better now you know what honey i feel closure coming upon me it's all right i'm gonna get some check that man's name off my list one more time better one more time yeah do that any messages post do i have any voice okay i'll post it

you never know i don't want to post it and have it be unfair come on now it looks stupid be hired with that on the internet to take it down i have a red face boy you know how it goes they gonna cancel me down at the grocery store so uh oh boy people in this town 1719 yeah so it's a pretty small town and it stayed pretty consistent for about 100 years in terms of population it's up four percent since 1990 so in 30 years it's not changed nobody going nobody coming that's right male female about this on point about 51 female uh median age here is about 34 so it's a little bit lower than average. Average is almost 38.

A lot of 5 to 14-year-old kids. Tons of that. Those demographics are spiked high, so that would be the reason for that. Married, it's just about this. Usually 50-50 here. It's about 48%, so pretty close on the money there. Race in this town, 90% white. So pretty white.

0.0% black. Really? 0.0. That's a lot. Two hours from Detroit? Two hours from Detroit, three hours from Chicago. Not one black person among 1,700. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

That shit sounds on purpose. I don't know. On either side. Yeah. Maybe black people are like no not for me driving by i don't think so keep going or it's a conscious effort to keep them out i'm not sure uh 0.1 asian okay very few very few uh they're uh 3.3 percent hispanics it's very white here. Only 23% religious, which is not a lot at all. It's usually 50% in the country, and they're spread around pretty equally. A couple Catholics, a few Methodists, a lot of other Christian. No Jewish people, though.

Not a one. 0.0% Jewish. So if a black Jewish man came to this town, it would just blow everyone out of the water. Just shoot the whole demographics to hell. Shoot the whole game. The whole town there. 0.0% Islam as well. Pretty conservative area in this county because it's a really rural county.

It's a lot of woods. Barry County was 30% Democrat, 63% Republican in the last election. 7.2% Independent. Being central Michigan, I assume that's whoever the militia ran yeah in that stage on their ballot there uh now uh unemployment rate's a little bit higher than normal it's barely over four percent so still pretty low but higher than normal in the rest of the country median household income though is where things start to get a little squirrely here uh rest of the country it's almost 58 000 here it000. Here it is not quite $35,000.

$34,000 and some change. $34,000 and change here, which is 44% of the people make under $30,000 a year. Oh, my God. That is a lot. That's so scary. That's a lot. Very few people make over $150,000, too. The people who are making a living, it's not there.

It's a middle class it's a you know middle two fuck well yeah it's it's a it's a two paychecks from being fucked survival life you know one paycheck yeah yeah that's a half a paycheck from yeah that's what i mean that's his uh in your gun yeah that is crazy man that's a lot yeah that's it's i can't believe that exists in our country precarious area area. Not only that, though, the jobs here, most of the jobs are in manufacturing. Not most of them, but usually it's about 10% manufacturing. Here, it's over 30%. It's 31%, which those jobs tend to come and go as far as economic times go, too.

And it's technology changes. That's the thing. And in these small towns, one or two places will employ a big chunk of the town. And if one of them shuts down, now that town is screwed. Remember that toaster town? Yeah. So many of these towns, we've seen it. Then the toaster factory closed.

And everybody's, you know, hard time since then. Goddamn microwave was invented and this whole town goes away. Forget about it. Goddamn it. We need a toast. More toast, everyone. For the love of God. Where's the toast?

And you know, the Midwest, God love them, are the most manufacturing motherfuckers on this planet. Oh, yeah, they'd love to build. They'd love to make something. Holy shit, they love it. They want to make something, damn it. Yeah, absolutely. Nashville, cost of living here, 100 is average, regular par. Cost of living here is about 84.

And the low thing is housing. Housing is low, 46 out of 100 for housing. Median home cost, $107,000, which is very, very low. But there's not really a lot of houses available. Really? That's just what the old houses are worth because it's the average worth 55 percent of the houses were built before 1939 yeah so people are just dying and then somebody else moves into it yeah the average in the rest of the country is 15 percent wow so it's the average home

age here is 78 the average home is almost 80 years old in this place holy shit 80 80 years of winters michigan winters and so it's a it's kind of a rundown area a lot of them are uh like there's geez what is this 20 about 70 of the houses are worth under a hundred thousand dollars so that's that tells you a lot right there my stepdad's family had uh a house that they lived in in like a shit area of arizona queen creek oh yeah it's like hillbillyville yeah but especially back oh my god in 10 years ago there was nothing in the early 90s late 80s forget it disgusting desert it was a house that it was somewhere else it was a it it's not a mobile home but it was moved

and it was on cinder blocks and i remember by definition so they just took a house yeah ripped it off the foundation on a trailer and moved it somewhere else put it on cinder blocks and i still to this day remember the smell of that fucking place and every time i get close to that smell it gives me a fucking cringe because i remember how it's a that that old of a house dude is such it's it's a very specific smell if you walk into like a super old house that's not been taken care of yeah the house i live in now is old yeah it's an old house but it doesn't smell like it doesn't smell like no because this has been taken care of renovated when they don't get

taken care of that smell it it's permeated though every piece of that house is stuck with that smell yeah and you know it yeah i've been in i've probably been in 30 houses that are that were i think i know what you're talking about. It's a weird mold smoke. Yeah. Kind of a strange. It's just lived in for fucking years. It's just in the drywall.

And you can't get rid of that. You could wring out the drywall. Yeah. Gross juice would come out. You can't Febreze that shit out. No, no, no. It's just there. It's in the base of the bones of the house.

It's all in these houses. I guarantee it. It's like if you have tumors spread to your bones or something. It's like, well, yeah. That's it. That's it. It's just worn out. Well, you know what?

With that said, if nothing else would, I'm sure that convinced you to go to Nashville, Michigan. And we have for you the Nashville, Michigan Real Estate Report. your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about 900 a month which seems high compared to what the housing is you have houses that are worth 80 grand you shouldn't pay 900 a month for it that's a little excessive uh so i found some of bargain here foreclosure. Somebody's misery can be your pleasure. Three bedroom, two bath, 2,300 square foot. Decent house. Pretty nice.

$45,200. Oh, my God. I mean, foreclosure, but still. That is thousands of feet of work. That's a lot. Oh, there's so much work there. Oh, my God. Three bedroom, two bath, 1,622 square feet.

Decent family home here. $145,000. Okay. That's reasonable. And then if you want to just stretch out, there's no big, giant, nice houses really in this town available. So I found a 181-acre lot. Wow. So you can just do whatever you want.

How much is it? It's a huge chunk of Michigan. $749,900. For how many acres? 181 acres. Pretty kick-ass. It's pretty cheap. Yeah, that's very cheap. It's all Michigan, though. For how many acres? 181 acres. Pretty kick-ass. It's pretty cheap. Yeah, that's very cheap.

It's all Michigan, though. It's so snowy. It's cold, and you're buying the woods. Right. I bought a lot of snowy woods. I own a lot of creek. There's that. I'm sure there's a bunch of them in there.

I don't know, 181 acres. That's a lot of acres. How do you even figure out where that starts and ends? You know what I mean? What do you do? You have to pay somebody to go survey that and tell you where your property is. I don't fucking know. When are you going to find the end of that?

It's not like I'm going to mow all that. That's what I'm saying. I was just going to say, it's not like you're going to mow and hit a little flag at the end. Oh, there it is. I hit the corner. Back this way. Back toward old man Peterson's property or whatever. That's not what you're going to do.

It's 181 acres. My aunt has a shitload of acres acreage in upstate new york we need to build developments otherwise we just walked until the till your feet started sinking and they were like i guess that's the end yes you don't want that anymore i don't want to have my socks dirty jesus so things to do here i found uh quickly there's not a lot of details about it, but the Barry County Brew Fest. They're just going to get shit-faced in Michigan. Then I found the nearby

Vermontville, which is the next town over. Vermontville Maple Syrup Festival. You're not actually Vermont. You know that, right? You can pretend you're Vermont, but to have a maple syrup festival and everything's a little much. Is there a bunch of maple trees in Michigan, I guess? It says here, Vermontville is the granddaddy of them all oh okay of all what

we are the home of the original maple syrup festival in michigan right okay import a bunch of log cabin apparently so mrs butterworth we have for you today the mrs butterworth there she is folks hi everybody she comes out waving okay we got her oh no she oh hold on they're choppering in the choppers landing right chop choppering in right everybody it's antima everybody oh here she is making a rare appearance oh my goodness she's been an agoraphobic for the last 12 years no one one's seen her. She's like Richard Simmons just in her house. And we are going to... Oh, my God. The chopper is lowering the octagon that the two of them will fight in.

It's going to be to the... For the champion of the Maple Syrup Festival. There's no winner until someone's throat is slit and syrup is poured out on the mat. That's how it goes. We will dip pancakes and waffles in these ladies. Into the... Into the spoils file what are you going after the defeated the vanquished foe will be sopped up with a nice

french toast so uh vermontville it's a yeah it's the festival starts on a Friday, goes through Saturday and Sunday. It's always held during the last full weekend in April. Something for everyone to do is what they're touting. Mid-America rides. I don't know what that is. Mid-America rides? You shout racist shit at black people? I don't know.

Midwesterners aren't very racist, by the way. They're very nice. They're very nice people. Welcoming. I don't know what thaterners aren't very racist, by the way. They're very nice. Yeah, they're very nice people. Welcoming. I don't know what that is. They just wave at people and give them things. Hi. A talent show.

That's vague. Arts and crafts. Flea market. Two parades. Oh, shit. Two. A petting zoo. A princess pageant.

Various games. Free entertainment. A pancake derby. See who's got the fastest pancakes around. You crash your pancake into another one? Throw it at people. And arm wrestling. Fuck yes.

If I said there's one more event, Jimmy, guess what it is. How many guesses would it take before you got to arm wrestling? Oh, there's a princess pageant, a petting zoo, and a pancake derby? When's the arm wrestling? I want to slam somebody into the fucking mat. I would have gone with. I'll rip your shit arm off. Let's do this.

I'd have gone with truck pull or something. Anything before that. So friggin weird. They'll be selling syrup candies and maple syrup cotton candy, which sounds disgusting. That sounds disgusting. Why would anybody want that? I don't know. Why is that in demand demand i can't fucking imagine what they were doing now a few years ago the other thing to do would be make a sunday because a few years ago the moville creamery set a guinness

world record for the longest sunday ever uh it was a 3656 foot long sundae. What does that mean, though? It was a table that was 3,600 feet long. It was a continuous sundae. But what's a sundae? Is that just like a scoop of ice cream, scoop of ice cream, and then you just... And then stuff on it, too. As we'll talk about, the previous record was held by the House of Flavors in Ludington, Michigan, which did a 2,970 foot long dessert, and that made the moveville creamery go pussy

fucking amateurs that all you got set up the bring out the long table let's get this record how big was this thing 36 36 56 feet crushed him by 700 feet they did three months later too they're like we could fucking do this the movevilleville Creamery manager, Tina Westendorp, said, quote, we saw Ludington's and said there's said there was no way we could pull this off. And a group of us wanted to refurbish the town and get Nashville on the map. So we thought of doing the longest ice cream Sunday because Nashville's kind of known for its ice cream. OK, that cherries. Yeah. That's a shitload of ice cream.

What are the rest of y'all going to eat? Yeah, one guy. Yeah. This looks pretty good. Jesus. Yeah, I'll have the same. Yeah. What she's having. There's a a movie i forget what it's called it's an old biker movie that's like a spoof movie yeah and there's the lead biker sits

down at the table and orders like he's ordering for everybody at the table he orders like 55 things or whatever and then the guy looks at the fattest guy at the table he goes how's that sound and he goes yeah i'll have the same. Yeah, what is that? Do you know what I'm talking about? I know exactly. I remember that. I forget the name of the movie. 70s or 80s or something.

80s. It's definitely a late 80s, early 90s movie. Yeah, it's an old movie. And it's kind of a dumb movie. Yeah, it's something special. No, it's fucking stupid as shit is what it is if I saw it. It's not a cornerstone of comedy or anything. It's just some dumb movie that you'd see on HBO on a Tuesday.

But that fat man's saying that shit because he looked like my stepdad. So when he said, I'll have the same, I was like, eh, that's what my stepdad was saying. He's a big, fat dummy. And he makes dumb jokes. It felt good inside me. Yeah, it's good. Warmed you? Yeah.

It was like the guy on the reviews. That was like my personal victory. I was like, you tell him, fat guy. Yeah, that's right. Damn it. So crime rate in this town. Property crime is about one-third under the national average. So, it's a little low here.

But, which usually, we've had recently, at least, it's usually like if property crime is about half, then violent crime will be about half. But here, this is about, so it's about a third under the national average for property. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, is almost double the national average. Wow. So not stealing so much, but they will kill your ass in a heartbeat if you go for an extra scoop of fucking sundae. There's enough to go around.

Yeah. Okay? We don't have to get a little, you know. 3600 feet of this shit. We don't have to get aggressive with our spoons here. Calm down, everybody. That is over a half a mile change. Of sundae.

One. That sounds awesome wow i just want to go to town what do you put it in is it like one continuous dish a big paper thing i guess paper like those but then it would leak everywhere either way that's a fucking mess imagine the flies and the ants in september in michigan oh it had to be who cleaned that sticky that would take forever to make and then it, yeah, melted by the time you're done with it. Plus, by the time you got to, how many people were scooping out ice cream?

I have so many. You know what? Screw this murder case. I was going to say, let's talk about a murder. Let's talk more about this ice cream. We're going to do an hour and a half investigation on how the fuck this Sunday was made. Move it. We got questions.

And then we'll tell you that somebody died and someone's in jail now at the end. It'll take like five minutes. P.S. Somebody died once. They're in jail now. By the way, the strawberries and Michigan grown cherries they use are delicious. They were made sure to say they're Michigan grown cherries. Right. So, always better. Specific. Speaking of all this, let's talk about

a murder. Great. Let's do this, shall we? It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed

to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide

when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer,

unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+.

Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Okay, let's do it here. Let's go back to 1985, okay? So we're talking rural Michigan, 1985. Okay. So we're talking rural Michigan, 1985. Let's take a back in time, spinning clocks, all that shit. Okay. We're on a road called Bevan's Road. It's a road that it's got two paths that kind of just cut through this rural area between Nashville and kind of to the west of Nashville.

It's kind of outside of Nashville, this area. But Nashville is the closest town to it, basically, here. This is a dirt road, a dirt path just off of Bevins Road that we're going to talk about here. And someone spots what they believe is an animal carcass on the side of the road. So as one does, they went to get a closer look. That's the weirdest thing in the world to me that's the

difference i feel like maybe if you're like a hunter or a woodsman you're like what is that wonder what that was killed by you're gonna i need to take a closer look at that but if i see i go it looks like something dead and i go the other way driving down the road when i see something dead i look and go i don't know what that was and we just keep going we keep driving and then i forgot about it a second later kind of animal you guys think that was i don't know possibly yeah we'll find another who knows it's a freeway we're doing 80 it's fine so that's so i don't know who what kind of a person investigates further when they see what they believe is an animal carcass off the side of a very very rural dirt road in the middle of nowhere it's a strange thing

here uh they check it out it turns out shockingly enough for this show it's not an animal but it is a man uh it is a man uh seems to be it's an adult uh smaller guy though not a big person uh but definitely by the look of the face an adult but nobody older maybe some under 30 looks like somebody like that um the only real clue here uh first is a tattoo on of a house fly it's a regular fly on his arm okay he's got that on his arm so there's that i don't know what could make you so happy with flies that you want to tattoo one on your body but that's fine uh he's very dead yeah and uh when he when police turn him over and look at him, he's dead because he has shotgun blast wounds to his chest. Very close range, too, from what they could tell there.

So they're interested, obviously. This isn't an accident. No. Because you'd think maybe someone got hit by a car and they thought they hit a deer at night or something. Maybe someone was out hunting or maybe it's a hunting accident. But this is a close range shotgun blast to the chest. Doesn't seem to be an accident. So they're thinking, who knows?

What is this, a robbery? So they search him. He's got money on him and keys, like car keys, house keys on him. Like, you know, the whole bundle. Somebody's key ring. He's got keys and money on him him which are a strange thing when you find somebody on the side of the road right those are things that you know if someone disappear pretty quick absolutely if someone was gonna was killing them and didn't know them very well or anything

they would think well i'll just grab these also the money might as well the car since they're dead anyway they're not going to be using their buick now i don't want to walk i mean jesus it's a long way so uh they find him here so obviously this is a this is a a problem and they're they're they're concerned with where you'd find it why you'd find someone dead in the middle of nowhere like this those aren't all the answers they're satisfied with no those are not questions those are not there's a few questions there's a few questions there and uh we'll get back to we'll get back to who that was in a minute but uh yeah so there's a there's a dead body and uh it's a lot of fervor going on around it to wonder to find this, A, who it is, and, B, who the hell did this to this person in the middle of nowhere.

So with that said, let's tell a little story about some people. All right. With the looming. That was October 6, 1985. Okay, let's talk about some people. Let's talk about a lady named Anna Marie Bouchard. Hell yeah. Bouchard, she's born in 1939.

So, you know, she's in her late 40s here. She's, you know, 46 years old-ish. And, yeah, she lives in, she's going to be moving around a little bit. We'll kind of talk about her story. But with her is her daughter um her daughter peggy here and peggy is married to a guy named harold stevens but we don't call him harold everyone calls him snake what nickname snake i don't see how we get from there to there well it's just harry is a pain in the ass of a name i just love it because his name is snake like stevie says his nickname is in the documentary,

and his last name is Stevens, which is amazing. It's pretty good. I just picture this man as Stevie. And when you hear the story more, dude, if you haven't seen the documentary, watch it. But if not, if you have seen it, picture Stevie in your head. That's who we're looking at here. So Snake and his girlfriend. So now all you're going to picture is Tanya.

All you're going to picture is her, but it's not. Okay. So Peggy Stevens is his wife. All right. Also, and Peggy's Anna's daughter. Her maiden name is Bouchard. Peggy Bouchard. Now she's married to Harold.

Peggy Stevens. Peggy Stevens. Peggy and Snake Stevens live with Mama Anna's, that Mama Anna's house over here. Pockets full of frogs. Pockets full of frogs. Well, they're leaking out of the holes in the pockets, obviously, but so not only do they live together.

Catfishes loves frogs. Oh, catfishes loves frogs. He pluralizes the middle word for everything. I ain't scared of them. People's changes. People's changes. People's changes. He does do that. It's so weird.

I don't know why he does that. He hits the plural. He's got the oddest speech patterns in the world. He does. Because he's got... It's so weird. I mean, it's very Southern dialect down there, too. I think he just says catfish loves frogs.

Catfish loves frogs catfish loves frogs which which one what do you what what he's did you name a catfish catfish i think he's talking about all of them loves frog just frank the catfish just this one catfish i met one time nobody else he told me he done told me i like okay i like frogs i love frogs now so he loves frogs i say he loves frogs fish loves frogs i say you don't like frogs you loves love frogs. So he loves frogs. I say he loves frogs. That bitch loves frogs. I say you don't like frogs. You loves frogs, don't you? And he said, I do.

And I said, that's right. I think he says people changes. That's what he says. Yeah, people change. Instead of people change, he says people changes. People changes. Got that hot stuff on there. What the fuck is happening?

Such a bizarre. That's who we're dealing with here. With Snake Stevens and his wife, Peggy. Okay. This is Peggy and Snake? Right. Okay. Now, in addition to them, they also live there.

Another one of Anna's daughters named Cora Bouchard. She is Peggy's younger sister. Okay. She still lives there. And also, Cora's son, Brian, lives there with them. Brian is, let's say, in... Brian's born in like 1978. So, yeah, you could put it there.

Or 1979, something like that. He's a young kid. He's a young kid at this point. He lives with them. And also... Good Lord! Yeah, it's a lot. You can't do this.

More people will come later. Oh, God. Okay? And in addition to them, Peggy and Cora's brother and a son, Larry, also lives there. You've got six people in one house. So they all live there. Well, one, two, three, four, five, six. Yeah, so six people, and it's not a huge house at all.

No, of course not. At all here. They all lived there for a while. They moved around a couple times. They end up in Lansing, Michigan in 1982. Okay, they end up there. Now, back to Snake and Peggy. Snake and Peggy have had kind of a tough time.

I mean, they're a mess. Let's not mince words here. They're a but they're even if everything around them was great you could understand them being a little bit of a disaster because they've had some tragedy in their life in 1979 their 14 month old daughter jennifer passed away oh jesus which is absolutely incalculably you know that, that'll devastate you. That'll ruin you. Demoralizing, just soul leveling. That'll absolutely ruin you.

Yeah, they had moved to Tucson, the couple. Came all the way out here. All the way in Arizona, not here. We don't live in Tucson. Arizona. All the way out here. All the way out here, yes. Out west.

To this here neck of the woods of Arizona. Yeah, so they had moved to tucson apparently this little girl had passed away at age 14 months and uh it was just devastating to the whole family as that would obviously be and then they ended up moving back to michigan uh the peggy and snake to uh be closer to family and to bury their young daughter who died of boredom and i think that's what it was uh yeah clearly some sort of weird chemical thing so uh poor kid now let's talk about rodney fancher okay rodney fancher is going to come into the picture here rodney fancher uh little guy rodney is not little like he's not you know anything he's five seven but 125 pounds oh boy oh boy so yeah he's got he got he got 50 pounds on this chief yeah yeah yeah you

could have a good day yeah jimmy hasn't been drinking in a few weeks jimmy's got 50 pounds a few beers come on over rodney yeah rodney's uh now rodney was on leave from the army Rodney goes that's defending our country he's and also he's got an eighth grade education oh my god so uh Rodney Rodney has a tough time finding work later on too it's tough to he's in the eighth grade you know eighth grade education but he was in the army so he's in the army for you know does a whole little tour here stint in the army whatever it is uh he does that uh in 1982 may of 1982 on leave from the army uh he comes home to stay with his mom and living next door who had just moved in next door to them were the bouchard family with harold with you know snake and peggy and larry and little brian and cora and the and Lil' Brian and Cora and Anna.

The whole clan lives next door, had moved in next door. And Rodney lives next door to that. Rodney lives next door to that with his mom. And it's just him and his mom next door, and then there's this whole posse next door to them. And apparently the houses could not be any more different. They look like they should be from different neighborhoods. Like they said the Fancher house uh with you know with his mom

mary and rodney was a very nice clean put together house that looked like pull out front yeah everything moke lawn all mode and you know things like that i'm sure back then they probably had a fucking lawn jockey out there but he was all shined up right they're being racist but they really kept it clean you know what i mean that of shit. Whereas next door to it, the Bouchard house was just a fucking disaster. Said it was just a mess. They said in the newspaper, they called it a, quote, cluttered, shabby house. It was a wreck, though. It really was.

It was a total disaster. Things were strewn about. The lawn was a mess. The house was falling apart. And there's a lot of people there. Tons of, like, shit cars in the frat house shit cars in the driveway in the lawn when people have just given up and started putting their shit cars on their grass that's you know the things they need an intervention someone needs to knock on the door and go are you feeling all right this is you're sad you don't care about anymore obviously. You quit. Fuck it. You quit. You decided that spot of that rectangle can be brown.

I don't care. Fuck it. I have a friend that I know, this guy. Still? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good guy. He's a good guy. But his house was a goddamn disaster.

At one point, he had a hole in his roof of his bedroom where you would think like in the ceiling, but it also went all the way to the roof what so you could see sunlight through his bedroom through his bedroom ceiling oh my god people pay for that but it's done well yeah no no this was he would have to put plastic up to like redirect rainwater oh my god well anyway he has this old truck that just died so he just pushed it into the backyard and just put it back there. And it's been back there for 15 years now, and it's returning to the earth.

It's sunken into the earth now. And eventually, it'll just be reclaimed by the earth. At one point, it was earth, so I guess, yeah. It's going to reclaim these parts in one way or another. It's going to return an 82 Dodge pickup to the earth. It's fucking hilarious. That's amazing hilarious but he just didn't care he's wheeled it back there he's like there it is so like okay it's fucking funny

everybody knows somebody that did that yeah yeah that's great that's depressing balls he goes i don't know what am i gonna sell it nobody wants that's what he said what else am i gonna do with it i'm like i guess that's a good point love it to run again one day, and I just can't right now. No, well, you have to extract it from the ground first. I need a crane to get it out. You need a crane and a whole fucking prospecting pack. Team of friends to dig. You need pans and rigs, and it's a goddamn disaster.

You've got to build a pulley system. It's a lot. It's a lot to do, honestly. It's a goddamn disaster. You got to build a pulley system. It's a lot. It's a lot to do, honestly. So now he moves in and he meets young Rodney Fancher meets Cora Bouchard.

Oh. The youngest daughter of the Bouchard family next door. She's got a son. She's three years older than him. I think he's 22 and she is 25 at the time. And Brian at at this point, is three years is a couple of years old. And obviously, that's not Rodney's kid. Clearly, they just met. So he just got out of the military.

He's on leave. He's still in the military. So he meets there. He meets he meets her and he doesn't mind the child or anything like that. He totally falls for her. Totally falls for her. Yeah. And once he is discharged from the army seven months later, he returns and joins the Bouchard household.

Moves in next door. Moves in there. Why don't you take them and bring them to your side? Right. Over here. Cross the yard. Right. Over the fence. It's nicer here.

You move into the shithouse with them? Not just that. Like, you're doing everybody a favor you know what i mean i suppose yeah you're creating a relationship and and that's good becoming a stepfather i guess to this little guy or father figure to the little guy yeah and then uh you're freeing up some fucking space in that house yeah get her the fuck out that's what i mean you move into the crowded house and then leave your mom all alone in the house that doesn't make any sense that's yeah it doesn't it doesn't unless the the mom was like i don't want the one of the

white trash neighbors and their kid moving to my fucking house maybe is what she thought or she's like get the fuck out i was enjoying it when you were in the service yeah that's true too yeah are you gonna get an apartment anytime soon because uh my sewing room yeah i'm not gonna put your bed back in there dildo that goes in the microwave. I'd like you to leave. It's dishwasher safe, too. I'm going to be using all the appliances, and it's going to be messy. There's going to be some noise in here. It's going to be wild. It's a kickstart.

It's got a kickstart. The last one was a pull string. This one's a kickstart. I'm not messing around. Can't wait for those rechargeable batteries one day. Well, yeah, especially. This one's gas-powered powered it's very difficult she'll find out about lithium ion it's gonna blow her mind oh my god this thing's carosene like you have to come before you pass out from the smoke scent

from the fumes that's the problem if you can pull one off quickly though this is the best one on the market don't be downwind of it so holy shit so he joins them the house is a now there's seven people in the house and six adults too i mean six adults is a lot of adults it's not like there's three kids and four there's six adults that's a shit that's a lot of and two couples and two yeah couples uh two couples an older lady the brother it's a lot man it's a lot those are lady, the brother. It's a lot, man. It's a lot. Those are a lot of showers. That's a lot of shitting.

Tea bowls for b-holes. You know what I'm saying? A sad couple that just lost a baby, too? So you're going to make a happy family and rub it in our face? We don't have our baby? That's the other thing. At times, it got so bad that Snake and Peggy there would just go outside and live in their van for a while out in the yard. You think that sounds bad?

They would run an electrical cord into the house from the van so they could get electricity. Yeah. Good Lord. That is a little bit fucking weird. That's bleak, man. That is bleak as shit. That's depressing. That's not

a good life no you don't want to live in the front well imagine mary next door going my son moved in over there why jesus christ people living in a van with a extension cord did my son kick people out of their own house and make them what's happening here what is happening my boy is a man i guess so so that apparently the there's you, some just general acrimony in the house in terms of seven people living in a small house is always going to be a lot. You can't do it. No tea bowls for b-holes. That's what we've said a million times.

There's not seven bathrooms. No way. I guarantee that shit. So the other problem that comes up is is the fact that that a young young brian uh cora's son young son apparently it's it's a weird thing apparently snake has really taken to brian oh uh because they lost their child and he's really become attached to young brian okay this is his nephew uh there so you know snake and peggy really have taken a liking to to young brian especially snake though snake is all about brian was the baby a boy or a girl it was a girl he's

a little girl but still it's just a kid it's a child it's a child and you're gonna feel that that hole in his heart exactly and so it becomes to be a little bit competitive between uh between rodney and snake about who's gonna about you know basically snake would get mad that like rodney would do things with brian and he'd be like what about uncle snake you know they called him uncle snake by the way oh my god what about uncle snake ain't he douche where where was this guy when uncle snake was changing diapers oh my god shit like that so he's jealous of the kids look at what i got you brian this is your own frogs yeah look at that got your own frogs open them pockets up there you go and here you know what else i got you here's a teddy bear yours is the one that's got that hot stuff on there nephews love frogs and he loves frogs nephews loves frogs so uh uh so early 1983 everybody's

living in this house everybody's you know doing their thing uh uh everyone's in this house now uh early they live in they live in lansing there from early uh 1983 until june or or July of 1984 when the Stevens Snake and Peggy there moved to a small town near Lansing another little town around Nashville I think they lived in Charlotte maybe which is near there as well

now he had the competition still because now it's even worse, because now they want Brian to come hang out with them at their house and stuff like that. And Rodney and Cora are doing their own thing with Brian. That's kind of how that works. So this is when conflict gets... You'd think the conflict would subside.

When they move away, they'd forget. But it becomes worse, because now, before, they could go get brian and bring him out to the van and you know hang out out there with them or do whatever they want play some it's 80 80 for play some jarts in the lawn i don't know what's a dangerous game that kids play in the 80s bon jovi and count frogs yeah count frogs and fucking listen to air supply i don't know what's happening in the wait on the clock to change to a new uh animal sound get brian fog hat came on the radio get him get him he's going on and we're about to hear the leopard oh boy it's the journey separate ways video he's gonna want to see them do air keyboard it's gonna it's inspiring for a young man four o'clock the elephant sounds hurry

let's do it so they um yeah so there's a huge conflict and it's just it's a it's a weird thing to fight about i want to see your kid more is like well it's my kid and i'll you can come over and see him if you want to see him i'm not going to send him to your house all the time i'd like him it's one of those deals so finally early 1985 cora goes to her mother anna and uh the matriarch of the family here and says will you help me kind of let them understand that this is you know it's becoming a problem talk to my sister yeah talk to my sister and snake right i've tried to reason with snake hey mom you know uh that guy that uh lived here and he uh didn't have a person name can you talk to him can you talk to him he's unreasonable weird weird it's strange

that you'd give i know his name is snake and he's a reptile and all but he is unreasonable i expect i'd expect better of him strange so yeah so all sorts so So Anna decides she will, the mother, she decides she's going to try to, you know, mediate the situation. And she does. You know, she says, look, you know, they don't want to. Mr. Snake. Yeah, Mr. Snake. They don't want to send the kid over as much. So it kind of, everything kind of eases up a little bit on the outside.

But on the inside, there is a real, just a real animosity between rodney and snake really uh snake is real jealous and pissed off at rodney for coming in and fucking up the whole thing uh he had basically you know he felt like this was like he was the father figure here for this kid and now he's been pushed to the to the side and he's very very angry at him for it so um what that yeah it's it's fucking the whole thing is silly the whole thing is goddamn silly so uh they end up they end up the whole thing happens where the the stevens is snaking and um snake and peggy end up moving back in with the mother and it becomes a big you know powder keg of people again here so coraora and Rodney decide, OK, we have to get out of here. We have to get out of here.

This is, you know, I want Rodney to be this kid's father and everything like that. So I'd like to, you know, I can't have this shit around. We need to move. It's not working out. Let's get an apartment. They said at that point they were all just mostly avoiding each other. Basically, that's all they could do out of this and uh at this point cora is working part time at the national guard she says cool and uh yeah but her her check would go to make uh the

house payment for her mom that's how it would work yeah uh her mother also gets a general assistance check uh that she everyone here is on welfare. Yeah. Everybody here is on welfare. So that's, everyone's on some sort of assistance. She'd get a monthly general assistance check, but she didn't think her mother could meet the house payments on her own. That was the whole thing.

So she ended up, basically, the mother needs, the mother needs Cora to be there. Right. Because Cora helps pay for the house it sounds as if snake is not doing that snake is not really pulling his weight all that much so why the fuck does cora gotta go that well no chorus and rodney decided they need to get an apartment and get the fuck away but that's my point is that and should be like look they pay bills yeah shut your fucking mouth exactly but that isn't the way it's going to go so well and anna doesn't know this is going on this is a big secret apparently rodney and cora think they

need to keep this all secret because they think there's going to be a lot of problems if they say we're moving out then they have to fight with peggy and snake about we're not going to see the kid and then anna's gonna go what about my fucking you know mortgage payment it's going to be a big disaster so they want to get an apartment first before they you know start telling people about it so they do they they spend like a weekend secretly apart apartment hunting looking around uh they don't tell anybody they nothing apartment shopping this is october or uh late september 1985 uh mary fancher who is uh who is rodney's mother she said that uh later on though it was discovered by anna cora's mother she found out about the plot to find an apartment yeah he said a day this was uh early october they uh i guess rodney or cora one of them had misplaced their list of

apartments that they were looking at and crossing off and brian you know cora's son found it and gave the list to his grandma like oh they've dropped their thing here you go so she's like what's this oh apartments these lousy sons of bitches so uh yeah so at that point um it's it's a um at that point it becomes uh uh now they're they want to hold them there. Everybody wants them to stay. And now the fact that it's weird because Snake and Rodney are always fighting, but now Snake wants him to stay. Yeah. Even though they're fighting. Because he knows that he's fucked if this kid leaves.

Yeah, that's the thing. Now, Cora says of the whole thing, quote, more than anything, it was Rod pulling away from Snake. After their own baby died, Peggy and snake just took to brian and they really didn't like the idea of rod coming into the picture well tough shit you know what i mean what the fuck are you gonna do so the weird thing is in this time period cora gives birth to another son oh named brad and this is rodney's baby no it's not oh no it's also isn't rodney's baby now we don't know what the timeline is of if they were together. I don't give a shit who the kid's dad is. It doesn't fucking matter.

It's not relevant to the story. But either way, there's another kid in the picture now as well. How much of a man Rodney is? He's going to stand up and be both this. Oh, yeah. He's fine with that. Wow. Totally fine with that.

But, yeah, everybody said, too, he loved the child like his own. You couldn't tell it wasn't his kid. He was totally fine with this. Now, at this point, the Stevenses decide they're going to move out again, too. They want to move out. Snake's had enough. Snake's had enough, and Snake's moving out, and now Snake is accusing Rodney of abusing the children. Snake's saying that Rodney's abusing the children.

Snake says, you know, is terrible. And it's Peggy said later on, Peggy will say, quote, Rod got so that he was treating Brian mean. And it got so that he wouldn't let us see him or talk to him no more. We was hoping maybe my sister would get rid of was would realize what was going on and get rid of him. We was hoping. Right. We was. We was.

We was hoping. Right, we was. We was. We was hoping. It's hard to take the word of her who's married or dating a man named Snake. Everyone calls Snake. Whose word do you take, James? Snake or veteran Rodney? I don't know. Snake, though, he's a certain something about him. He seems like a trustworthy guy.

You can really sell a story. Yeah yeah and now cora says the opposite cora said quote rod loved the boys and thought too uh and thought too much of kids to abuse them he let them get away with more stuff than i did so she said no never abusive to the kid whatsoever that's complete bullshit so um jesus christ so they're apparently doing everything they can especially anna is doing everything they can and peggy and snake are doing everything they can kind of to help anna uh to keep rodney and cora for moving out keep them in this we need the disastrous fucking horrible situation of a fucking mess jesus christ what a goddamn disaster so when you need seven incomes to take care of a fucking house and none of them are really incomes right and that's the other

thing it's seven government chip offs rodney is having a real hard time paying the bills at this point um it's it's really it's really tough uh because uh basically her 500 bucks a month that she gets from welfare here, Cora goes right to the, at this point, is going right to the house bills. So that's something. So now by the summer of 1985, talk about here, all they're doing, Peggy, the daughter, Peggy Stevens, Snake's wife, and Anna, the the mother the matriarch of the situation here all they do is talk on the phone and complain about rod not letting them see see brian it's literally every day they get that and use the word was wrong you know it's just like i we was saying

that he was gonna do that and then they were saying they was gonna take us here and it ain't happening right so they end up talking on the phone like every day to to fuck i don't know why commiserate how much they don't like this guy can you believe it oh my god how dare him pay all our bills and and then get mad that he doesn't want snake to spend tons of time with his child right you know whatever his stepchild future stepchild so peggy said at one point quote i about her mom i asked her if uh if just beating him up would maybe do the trick maybe we'll get rodney beat up and then he'll let us see brian more um so peggy says though that anna said no no that's not going to do the trick stubborn no she said

quote she thought that would only make him worse only make him worse it's gonna just probably right probably right you kick his ass he's gonna go i will take that ass whooping out on that child on a daily basis now hell will come down it'll make me worse on that child and i'm gonna get a restraining order on y'all and y'all will be able to see him none yeah no shit so it's at this point where one of snake's old high school pals comes into the picture because you know they got to be the most upstanding citizens ever here uh one of snake's pals from high school named tony hill who is a part-time janitor uh part-time elementary school janitor

at this point yeah part-time elementary no one is no one is gainfully employed in this entire story it's just it's not a thing that happens everyone is sort of working here and kind of working there and like posting uh for jobs at the truck stop bulletin and shit like that we'll talk about we already know they don't call you back when you get an interview so you could try that's why happens so i want to be called part time somewhere in my life that's my goal i want to be part i don't because then i'm not going to have then you'll have i want to be so well paid and so well that'd be great my life at some point that i can just be just going part time part time, this is I really wish I could be full time,

but they'll only give me so many, so many hours and so much money. I'll stay. I'd stay if they let me, but they won't let me. So they make me leave it to the rules. I show up at 10. They say two o'clock.

It's quick. I'll take my card and just punch me out and work all I want, but I'm not getting paid. So Tony Hill and Hill and Snake here, they rekindle their friendship because they're both assigned to the same job when they're in the Eaton County Workfare Program. So they're in some county like day labor program, basically temp day labor type thing. And they end up meeting up. Hey, I remember you remember you yeah you're the

other guy who failed math class with me all right beautiful you look terrible you too all right clank and they clank beers and shut them down and that's a piece of shit ain't it you ain't never lied the fucking worst if i could afford bullets i'd put my brains on the back of my fucking wall last night but i got a gun on layaway i'll be damned if i could do it seven more payments that bitch is mine gonna afford that box then i'll work on the bullets oh you gotta do both so uh he said uh the tony hill talks with him or and they said they they're you know they have a talk about right away the whole thing turns to this goddamn guy i know jesus christ now you know my daughter died and i got this you know nephew and he's a good little kid and this goddamn rodney coming

in here pushing me out of the picture and how dare he exactly how it went yeah and can you imagine you can see it unfold yeah and you haven't seen this guy in 15 years right they're like 35 years old these people right 29 years or whatever you haven't seen this guy in over 10 years and he's talking about his fucking brother-in-law complaint who cares this guy this should be a like eyes bugging on your head oh my god i gotta get out of this conversation oh i'm late got a thing like no we haven't seen how stinky have you seen him things like that hey did you hear pudgy died or yeah i don't know i gotta return some tapes yeah hey lefty's a woman now you know things like that did you hear so this uh what they do rodney's looking for steady work too

that's everybody they're in a workfare program rodney's looking for work everybody's looking for steady work and uh so they said okay let's do something here we can get rodney this is how we do it if we're going to kick his ass this is how we're going to do it okay real easy what we'll do is we'll tell him he doesn't know this tony hill guy so we'll have tony hill offer him a job and then he'll show up to the job and get his ass kicked okay and that clever you know what i mean that's what we're gonna that's what we're gonna to do here. Yeah, he's going to do that. And so Peggy, what Peggy does is Peggy tells Rodney, hey, I did you a favor. I put your name and your information up at a truck stop, at Don's truck stop. Right.

Thanks for the solid. Oh, it's Don's. I wanted to make sure you didn't put it at the shit truck stop. You put it at Don's? Right. Thank God. You never know what you'll be doing. It's the other side of the glory hole, but it's Don's. I wanted to make sure you didn't put it at the shit truck stop. You put it at Don's? Right. Thank God. You never know what you'll be doing. It's the other side of the glory hole, but it's full time.

I mean. You ain't leaving. You're chained to the legs of that thing. Hold on a minute. Don says he's going to test you out first. Here, sit tight. Wait, he'll be here in a minute. You have to impress Don, is from from what i understand i don't know what

that is hands are duct taped around a fucking toilet bowl yeah so apparently a man uh a man called brit uh rodney yeah to uh and identified himself as rich hoover he said he said i'm rich hoover really rich hoover dick sucker really rich hoover nice or hoovey they don't know either one they couldn't tell because it's you know who knows over the phone doesn't so rich hoover or rich hoovey either way some cock sucking something yeah he calls on october 2nd 1985 calls rodney and offers him four hours of work for 80 bucks, which 20 bucks an hour in 1985 in rural. That's a good day's work for him. So he fucking jumps at it.

This is to unload a truck. So 80 bucks for four hours unloading the truck and they go there. Now, no one by the name of Rich Hoovy or Hoover exists in this area, by the way. Rich Hoovy or Hoover exists in this area, by the way. So the guy tells Fancher, tells Rodney, meet me in Potterville at this bar. Okay, meet me there. But then he calls back and tells Rodney that he had truck problems and changes the meeting to the next night.

So that's how it goes. So Rodney says, okay, next night. This was a Wednesday night. He goes, okay, never mind. It's happening Thursday night. So that's how it goes here. This is about 730. The next evening, Rodney leaves on the third to go meet this man at a bar to then go to the truck to unload it.

That's the plan. Meet me here. Pick you up in the truck. We'll go unload the shit there. So this this apparently caused a fight as well, because Rodney was pissed that his fucking sister-in-law is posting his shit up at truck stops even though he's getting jobs out of it he's like hey don't mind your own business with stay out of my kid stay out of my fucking employment just stay out of my life my relationship just keep to yourself stay out of my fucking shit here uh but all he

could ever find was part-time jobs due to you know the fact that he went to the eighth grade and that's about it here so uh now peggy and snake decided that uh tony hill's gonna pose as the trucker here uh you know the note had been posted and all that sort of thing here uh now she there's some there is some question as to how whether how much anna knows about this the whole matriarch of the family whether how much Anna knows about this, the whole matriarch of the family. How much she knows about this whole thing at this point and everything. Nobody really knows. But they definitely know that Anna was the one later on who gave Rodney the name and phone number to call this guy back. So Anna at some point is in this mess she's

been tied in she's in the fucking mixed here uh she's in the mix at some point here so what they do is snake stevens and peggy need an alibi okay they need an alibi for this whole thing so they say okay what we're gonna do is we're gonna go to Bay City and go see a friend of mine named James Oswald. Okay. Now, as they're planning their alibi, they talk to Peggy says they talk to Anna a little more about this and tell her now what's actually going to happen. And Anna says, I don't think it's just going to make him worse. I think it's just going to make him worse. So at this point, this is when Snake goes, well goes well i mean we could just why not just shoot him i mean we're going to beat

him up anyway just shoot him no one will miss him who gives a shit you know fuck him so they went what we're doing is illegal anyhow it's illegal anyhow fuck it so let's go for it so they say yeah why not so this is considered now we don't know whether this was considered in front of anna or decided in front of anna or decided in front of anna or not so that's the only thing that goes but either way snake and peggy need an alibi so they go to bay city with a guy named james oswald um and so he uh they go to meet him uh now oswald says that uh he stevens told him he wanted to be seen in the bar so that he could say he was there that's the quote he said so snake said i just wanted to be seen in the bar so that he could say he was there. That's the quote he said.

So Snake said, I just wanted to be seen here so I could say I was here, which is very strange here. Yeah, I don't understand that. Well, we know. Yeah, you can say it. Yes. We see you. So Snake at this point decides that it's better. The whole thing's going down the next night.

It's better for him to be out of state. He goes, I'm happy it didn't go down tonight actually because i'm i'm in town i want to be out of state when this whole thing goes goes down you know this is how this has to work so uh what they do is they uh they go back to the trailer here and they figure out a way to uh he ends up going to florida the next day to pick up a truck trailer to bring home, to have an alibi here. So back at the bar, though, Snake was talking to his buddy, James Oswald, and saying that he was basically saying how, yeah,

we're going to pick up and bump off this child abuser guy. So he's just telling details, not telling about Rodney, but he's saying, yeah, I know this child abuser guy so he's just telling not details not telling about rodney but he's saying yeah i know this child abuser guy we're gonna bump him off and snuff him out is what he said and the guy's like yeah okay whatever you fucking i mean it's snake he's gonna snake he's he's talking shit right snake's gonna talk shit anything the man says don't believe snake don't believe a goddamn word at 8 30 p.m snake proposes a toast he notes the time says it's 8 30 i'd like to propose a toast he literally said that he noted the time it's 8 30 it's time for a toast um it is september 23rd uh 8 30 that's me i am and i'm at this bar that's how much he was trying

to establish an alibi he wanted to stand up and it establish. It's 8.30 and I'm here. Let's celebrate. Passing out copies of today's paper. Yeah, 8.30. Let's all take pictures with today's paper. What do you say? Everybody just take a group shot. Anybody got a digital camera with a time stamp? Group photo with all of today's paper. Get the clock and the picture. Let's do it. Anybody.

So have tonight's news on in the background too let's make sure you get the tv in the shot i really want everyone to see what's going on there's a football dating leather and the monday night football's on let's put really dated so uh yeah october 3rd though at 1985 is when this is all supposed to go down um now for his part in this tony hill was given so what we find out what is this tony hill what's he gonna get for this yeah what's he gonna get for this i mean i hit this is gonna cost a lot i mean think about it that's a lot um what he ends up with is a hundred dollars i need a hundred dollars this

is so stevie this whole thing i need a hundred dollars cash i'm out of here i'm out of here wow that's amazing hey wow so did they they did they they get the confession suppressed that's what i'm saying man i'm out of here i need a hundred dollars cash amazing hundred dollars cash he's clearly not jack he's like looking around like is my wife hearing this are my kids safe? Fuck. You're not out now, are you? Are you on the way here? You don't know my address, do you? You're not down the street, right?

Fuck. I've got daughters. Oh, God. So this guy is given $100 and an eight-year-old motorcycle. Oh, my God. An eight-year-old candy apple red motorcycle with pinstripes and a chrome backrest. Do we know what kind of bike it is? Nope, that's all I know out of it. That's all we get. It's a Honda.

It's eight years old and it's red. And a $100 car. And a chrome backrest. Yeah. It's got a sissy bar on it. So Rodney leaves October 3rd and he goes out. Bye, honey. I'm going to work.

I'm going to unload this truck. I'll be home about midnight. You know, whatever. Comes back, goes out, and the next morning, he's still not home. He doesn't come home. He doesn't come home. Now, all that Cora knows is she's supposed to meet, Rodney's supposed to meet this guy he's working with at this bar.

So she calls this bar and says, hey, was my husband in so-and-so, and he drives this car and everything, and they say, well, he's not here. I never saw him, but that car that you described was in the parking lot. It's there. So the car's there, but we don't know where your husband is. So she's like, fuck, I'm super confused here. Until October 6th when the body's found. Oh, no.

And she's looking for him. And they go, hey, your husband or your boyfriend, Rodney, doesn't happen to have a tattoo of a house fly on his arm, does he? What did he do that for? He does. But, I mean, thank God he did it. And so now they know who he is. And, yeah.

So his mother here, Mary, is fucking pissed. She's hated these people since they moved in next door. She says, quote, when we heard Rod still has his money and car keys on his body and that his car was back at the Blinker Light bar, we knew something was real wrong. It seemed like a setup job, a real grudge job. He talks like a 40s gangster. That's what I said. It's a setup job, real grudge job, see? I said, all these guys are coming down.

It's a real setup job. They gave me the facts, and I knew he was rubbed out. I knew he was rubbed out. He went to the bar. He said, what kind of bar is that? It's a lesbian bar. I said, oh, my. We can't have that.

Not in this town. My goodness. Jeez. What do the school kids think? Two ladies kissing. Fucking. It sounds like he's from the 40s. Oh, my goodness.

Meanwhile, Jesus. That would be great. Seemed like a setup. A real grudge job. I go, if I was a teenager and one of those bars existed in my town and I knew it. Back then? You couldn't pull me away from those windows. In the 40s?

Yeah. Oh, in the 40s, yeah. Watching those chicks kiss. Oh, look it. They're all kissing. That's crazy. Oh, my God. Jesus, that would have been the greatest thing in the world.

I wouldn't have cared. It would have just been, they're all women. Right. Yay. I don't care what they're doing. Look at how many was just been they're all women right yay i don't care what they're doing look at how many women are in there that's amazing they don't want anything to do with me i wouldn't know that anyway because i can't get in i can't get in and i wouldn't know what to do with them at the time anyway but i can fantasize about what i would do i think i want to

look at them though as a kid you don't exactly know what you want to do but you do i don't know i'd touch them you definitely want to look at them. I'm going to look at them and then like, I think they'll touch me. Right. That's how it works, right? They'll touch me. I'll touch them.

Yeah. I'm telling you, it's going to be great. Boys loves girls. Boys loves girls. Sometimes. Sometimes boys loves boys. Sometimes girls loves girls.

Girls loves girls. So, when the Stevenses is here, Peggy and Snake get back from Florida. They wait to hear that the body was found. Then they come back from Florida. Like, oh, that was a good vacation down there. We got some work done here. And they tell them there's been a death in the family.

Oh, no. Oh, geez. They're so, Harold's very upset. They said he seemed nervous, but he quickly calmed down. And he said he said to his friend, James Oswald, the guy who he told there's a child abuser going to get rubbed out. He said that there'll probably only be a quote, a short investigation. I don't think this will amount to much, you know, all of that sort of deal. So it's at that point that they go pick up Tony Hill and they get the details.

So Peggy and Snake get the details from Tony and he said that Hill said he picked up, you know, Rodney at the bar like they planned. They smoked a joint on the way to this job. Like, hey, want to get high on the way to the job site? Yeah, sure. Then what he did was, as they're driving, Tony Hill said that, hey, you know,

I got some more weed in the back of the truck here in my toolbox. If you want, I'll go grab it. We can smoke a little more before this job. And so Rodney was like, hey, you know, I got some more weed in the back of the truck here in my toolbox. If you want, I'll go grab it. We can smoke a little more before this job. And so Rodney was like, yeah, cool. So they pull off to the side of the road. Best job ever. Sounds fucking great.

$20 an hour to smoke weed and get high. I'll be high the whole time. This will fly by and I don't pay for it. This is terrific. So they pulled over off on the side of a country road to get it out of the back of the truck there. And instead of the toolbox, what Hill did is he comes up with a sawed-off shotgun. Oh, Jesus. Instead, he pulls out.

He's expecting literally a joint and instead gets a sawed-off shotgun, which are very different things. Entirely. Entirely different. And he said that this is what Hill said he told Rodney before he shot him. Quote, this was for the way you treated Brian. This was the way grandma wants things done. Oh, that's what he told her. That's what he told him.

This is the way grandma wants things done and then shoots him in the chest with a sawed off shotgun and kills him. And this is for you being a great man to a child. This is for you trying to be a stepdad uh this is his grandma apparently wants you dead for it so that's that's what he said to him and uh yeah so the cops are trying to figure out weeks go by they don't know their their whole thing is they're looking for uh now they think instead of rich they think it might be jim hoover or jim hoovey either, they're hunting for a rich Hoover or Jim Hoover or Hoovey. They're searching for that because that's the person they think, whoever that guy is. That's the lead.

That's the lead. That guy doesn't fucking exist is the only thing. So this is weeks of trying to find this guy who does not exist because it could be anywhere around the area. Not once did they just go, we've been had. No. All of them are like, it's got to be this movie because the Anna Bouchard, the mother, is the one saying, yeah, this guy called the house for Rodney and that's what happened. He went, so there's no, why the fuck would she lie about it?

Why would his girlfriend's mother, who got a call for him to go get a job, lie to the cops about it? I don't know. That's the cop's job to figure out, though. You know what I mean? The second that they go into the phone book and go, no names? Maybe she's lying. Or maybe he's unlisted.

How the fuck would she, why would they automatically suspect the girlfriend's mother? I bet his mother, I bet his mother murdered him. You know what I mean? I bet his girlfriend's mother murdered him. They'd be more likely that some dirtbag he's out. You know what I mean? Probably. It makes more sense.

That's not the first. But still, as a cop, you got to go, I don't know. May not be true. Let's put this together minus that information. As a cop, you go, who has reason to lie? Not this lady. That's the point. She has no fucking reason to lie.

She's trying to help her daughter find her daughter's boyfriend at this point. She has no reason to lie she's trying to help her daughter find her daughter's boyfriend at this point she has no reason to lie if you do that there would no one would ever get caught for anything because you can't just go anyone's as possible a lead as anyone else that's not you know what i mean that's not possible but at the same time you still there's a serial could check all the eight-year-old girls too i know that they probably didn't rape and murder all those women but you never know check them also all the old ladies. There was semen at all the crime scenes. Every woman on earth.

Every woman on earth. The last person you'd look, you'd look at Cora more than you'd look at Anna. Yeah, I suppose. If Cora gave you that information, you might go, hmm, let's make sure it's right. But if her mother just said, some guy called the house and he said this, and I passed the information along, I have no involvement otherwise. I'd be the worst cop. I'd never'd never solve a crime yeah you'd solve one by accident once in a while this one like james where were you do you feel like i was here and i'd be

like no you weren't yeah well i don't know that guy's in jail now and he made a full confession he's a liar he pulled the murder weapon out of his fucking under a frown from under his bed i think he's the guy jimmy i would be very wait a second wait a second have you talked to the victim's grandmother now no to hear me out hear me out i'm not completely sure she's been truthful to me not positive james where were you no you weren't and then just to walk out of you're right i wasn't oh my god what they end up doing is they review long-distance telephone bills and establish that Tony Hill had called the Bouchard several times just before the slaying here, and that's how they realize who's involved in this because the Stephenses were in Florida,

so he's communicating with Anna at this point, so she's involved in this. That's how they figure the whole thing out. So once they realize there is no Jim Hoovy or or rich hoovey that's when they go to okay since that guy doesn't exist why would that why would anna tell us that that's when they start looking at her phone records and go from there so you gotta there's steps to this shit you know i mean automatically accuse a 49 year old woman with no criminal record of a murder of something she has no motive for right it's just weird so uh so yeah she uh they said that uh uh at this point though the police officer said that there was everybody had an alibi they said oh it's got to be stevens and peggy step the stevens

but then they go he's toasting people at fucking 8 30 then they're in florida so there's no way that they're there. But he did say, the cop said, quote, but Harold Stevens talked too much to James Oswald. And when Oswald found out, because the motorcycle came from Oswald. That was his motorcycle. And apparently, Stevens told him that he used the motorcycle

as part of the payment for a murder. And that's when James Oswald came forward to the cops because he thought maybe if anything happened, this would get traced back to him and it would look like he hired the guy to murder him because that's when James Oswald came forward to the cops because he thought maybe if anything happened, this would get traced back to him and it would look like he hired the guy to murder him because it's his fucking motorcycle. So he went to the cops and said, hey, little thing here. My high school buddy, Snake, and our other high school buddy, Tony here, they did this and that.

And he spilled it. He told me he came to the bar because he needed an alibi and blah blah blah blah blah he said quote he said he was a guy was going to get picked up and bumped off and snuffed out and then he said stevens claimed the guy was a child beater abuser and a doper and that was it so he was going to do it and he didn't even feel i go funded this uh this murder with my motorcycle yeah and he said that uh uh apparently the motorcycle was part of a down payment for the murder for tony hill that was the that's the story here uh so they go all into the telephone records and find all sorts of shit here they go to peggy stevens on december

27th with this they're gonna they arrest everybody they arrest uh stevens uh both they arrest snake peggy and uh tony hill they're gonna save anna for a minute but they arrest all them and peggy um they're telling her all the you know information they have against her and she goes what if i tell on everybody oh what if i tell on uh what do i tell my husband and tony hill what if i throw my mom into it as well? How about that? And they go, immunity. Yeah. So Peggy Stevens gets immunity for all of this now. And she tells her story, which is fucking crazy. Immunity from prosecution. And because it's Michigan, certain states have harsher laws on this.

At this time, she will not even be allowed to testify against Snake because she's still married. She's still married to him. So he gets the star witnesses out of his trial, which helps him a lot. But yeah, all the phone records and everything were a big deal. She apparently right away made a confessional statement right away when they talked to her. She said that her first statement did not include her mom in it. And then the second statement was like, okay, by the way, my mom was just as much involved in this as everybody else. Yeah. She said that her and her mother had discussed this with what she called excessive discipline of Brian by Rodney and agreed that something had to be done.

Peggy said she said that Rodney should be beaten up or have his arms or legs broken. And she said that her mom, as we said earlier, said that's just going to make him worse. And that first she didn't take her mother's statement seriously, that we should just kill him. And then finally Snake said, well, why don't we just kill him? And I said, I guess that's what we're going to do then. Yeah, so Tony Hill said that he could do it. It would take $1,000. That was the cost for this, $1,000.

We've had a couple of real cheap, between this and crime and sports this week, we've had some cheap execution costs. So Peggy then talked to her mother, told her the price, and her mother replied that she didn't have that much money. We know. But that it would have to be made in payments and that she'd pay when she could and what she could well hey listen i'm sorry but you're looking for a murder and you're like listen you want money for this i'll pay you when i can and what i can mister like no you this is a murder do you take wick yeah how about save up for a few months?

Have some fucking. What are you doing? If you can afford it, James. This is a real instant coffee culture right here when we can't even fucking. You can't even save up for a few months for a murder that you want. You know what I mean? When I was a kid, you want a murder. You save up for it.

You work. You cut some lawns. You do what you have to do. You save up and you go get that murder but this fucking people they deliver some papers they just want everything handed to them this guy by the way hill yeah his mugshot he he has one of these beard and mustache combinations that there's barely a mouth hole awesome it looks like a possum's asshole it's just all like just over it i don't know what the fuck to describe it the best way i can think of to describe it it's just all too

much where you're like damn is there he just stuffs food into his hair it's a weird eating setup that is that is a i just i just saw your lips up fellas like a long-haired dog and a long-haired cat it is fascinating that they don't shit on themselves more you know what i mean sometimes they do yeah my cousin has a little tiny dog on themselves a lot more my cousin has a little tiny dog that he has to wipe its ass every time he takes it out he has to fucking pick it up and wipe its ass i'm like that's some sorry shit bro it's sad when he told me about i looked at him is it a young pup no it's a fucking just a dog it's just to get stuck in the hair so i i looked at him dead in the eye and i just said imagine

you're imagine you as a child and you said when i'm in my late 30s i'm gonna be wiping a dog's little asshole every time it shits you'd have killed yourself as a teenager you would have never here you are it's not worth it then he's like well i still do it so jesus christ that's crazy so now hill is so pathetic he goes that's good enough whenever whatever you can that's good yeah 100 bucks in a shitty motorcycle take it no problem uh so by the way no money was paid to him before the hit not a a dime. Nothing. Nothing. Afterwards, he went to the bar to meet the Stephenses there, and they slipped him 100 bucks under the table. That's how they do it. Holy shit.

How will this do you? She said the motorcycle wasn't a payment. The motorcycle was collateral against the rest of the payment. Like, you hold this motorcycle, and I'll show you that I'll pay you the rest of the money. They pawned a murder, James. They pawned a murder. Yeah. Wow.

It's literally the consignment murder. Yeah. That's the name of this episode. It really is. The consignment murder. This is depressing, horrible, just the lack of humanity entirely all the way around. They don't give a shit. Yeah.

It is unbelievable. There's no, there's no, I have a huge problem and the only way to solve it is murder. There's not, it's not even like a millionaire going, my husband or my wife wants to take all my money or somebody, this person's having an affair and I'm jealous or none of that shit. This is just,

I don't think I like the way I don't get to spend as much time with the boy. Right? Like it's fucking ridiculous. It's not even your kid. Not even your kid. That's the thing. It's not like he's a father and then a stepfather came in and he feels like he's here and it's not your kid right it's your fucking zero attachment no it's your nephew you should just be thrilled for him that you get any time at all you should be jacked for your nephew that you don't have to be a burden it's technically a burden when you can pick him up take him to play some niffle

ball that's all shut the fuck up otherwise yeah otherwise shut up about it you have no say in it um yeah so peggy said that uh uh you know peggy ends up being the star witness here and also she said that they were considering moving back to arizona and hoped at this point that this is this is fucking crazy this is what she says okay she wanted to punish him for his mistreatment of brian sure which what didn't exist and also they they perceive what they perceive to be rodney's role in quote withdrawing brian from their society i don't know what that's just from their circle uh she also said that they were considering uh the stevens's wanted to move to arizona and were hoping that cora would let them take brian with them to move to arizona because cora quote didn't really care if she had him

around it's her son and she did care if she had him around but she was saying that they thought there was more of a chance that that cora would let them take the boy to arizona if rodney was dead because then she'd be so like i don't care anymore whatever so that's how it worked here um she yeah and then she also says that tony hill said this is the way grandma wanted it well during the murder which is it kind of is a society though with that many people living in that small of a building that's kind of oh it's a society yeah it's seven people in one house is a society yeah it's a real shitty one but it's a society it's a oh my god it's a sad anthill right there get to those thoughts of of i i want to move out of this state and i'm going to take my nephew like i like he's my own and like you should be able to take him right if i

can't i'll be mad right not wouldn't it be amazing if you could this is if i can't i will fucking kill people that's that is interesting here now uh what a lifestyle it's it's goddamn nuts so uh basically everyone is uh peggy is saying that her mom was the kind of the last push of the whole thing. She was the one who kind of, you know, would go on. They they said that they all these phone records of other people talking. And they said that most of the time when they were talking on the phone, they were just talking about how much they hated Rodney and how much they wanted something bad to happen to Rodney. Yeah, it's it's it's it's fucked up here so cora how does she feel her boyfriend's dead her sister is admitting that her and her husband

definitely did it and probably anna also oh boy so if you're corey you don't know who the hell to believe and who to whatever and you're single mother of two i mean the house is quiet that's good yeah house is this is great it's the most quiet and is sitting there with like cucumbers over her eyes and a box of wine just sitting there fucking watching the gilmore girls going this is better this is really better i like this much better yes this is fantastic just got out of the bath hell yeah just lotion and candles and shit she's like oh i don't know kids fanning her with like empty microwave popcorn bags meanwhile she was the mastermind behind all of it they'll never get me they'll

never catch me i'll get rid of my mother my sister my brother-in-law and that pesky boyfriend all in one swoop all of that because i want a nice sunday afternoon just once just once i just want to sit here listen i can't afford this house at next month so i'm just getting the nap today they keep putting new shit on netflix i want to watch it no she says obviously people the press talked to her and she was taking a back chorus says quote mom denied having anything to do with the killing uh with killing rodney But Peggy didn't just didn't say one way or another. I loved Rodney. I don't know why they would do this to me.

I know my brother-in-law and sister were involved. I figured they were from the beginning. Just a feeling I had, you know, why would my mom have done this? She didn't want me to. She didn't want me to take the kids away from her away from the mother, too, because they were going to move out. So there's all these people are so have ownership over this child that doesn't belong to them both children it's fucking weird yeah so uh they're you know obviously they have the house to ourselves then uh cora says quote mama has called a couple of times she just asks about the house we never

go we never talk about rod or the case it's hard when when she calls. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, Peggy, I haven't seen her talk to her. Me and her, we grew up like twins. We used to sleep in the same room and share the same clothes back and forth. We were that close together, but that's changed now. You know, since she plotted and conspired to murder my boyfriend, it's, you know, I don't

know what it is. I can't trust her the same way. Or maybe she's just saying, she wears jumpsuits and I don't anymore. Yeah, I can't borrow her clothes. They're kind of lame. Yeah. Yeah. They don't match shit. No.

So Mary also said, I'm sorry, Cora said about Mary, Rod's mother, quote, I knew my brother-in-law and Rod didn't like each other, but I didn't know it went that far, obviously. Now, in this, I found this in the newspaper. And this is really just for you, Jimmy. This is not for the people at home. But I found this ad for a hospital in the newspaper. I'll describe it for you. It's Harper Hospital here.

And it's the top of it. Just look. Uh-oh. Look at the picture. Yeah. Okay. You can see the picture here. There we go.

The picture here, it says, don't worry, at the top. Yeah. Mommy's coming home soon. Yeah. And it's a picture of the saddest looking man holding two children whose whole family has just been wiped out in a genocide. Like, these kids, their mother's not coming home soon at all. No, she's not coming home soon at all he's not coming home

so my question is are they only saying this to push it off on the kids like mommy mommy's dead and they're telling the kids don't worry she'll be home soon or is these people just not as joyous as they should be and that's an advertisement that's an advertisement for a hospital come here so your kids can look like that worried as fuck as fuck about you. You know, in your time of need, when a father is like, I can't take care of either of you two, mommy will be home soon. And he'll be telling them the truth. Look at this, man. Because we will work our balls off to make sure that this is true.

That is disturbing. It's disturbing. Look at that man. So sad. He looks so sad. That's a real picture, isn't it? Oh, yeah. His kids look sad as shit. Look at that man. So sad. He looks so sad. That's a real picture, isn't it? Oh, yeah. His kids look sad as shit.

Oh, my God. They snapped that shit in the waiting room and were like, we're using you in our ad. How you feeling right now? Sad? You miss your mom? Click. Really? Oh, man.

Is it tough? What's your mom? Have cancer? Click, click. Let's go. I'm so sorry about that. Jeez. What is stage four?

Click, click, click, click. That's terrible. We're very sorry. Hey, could you look down just over here? Hey, look. Anyway, so click, click, click,'s terrible we're very sorry hey could you look down just over here hey look anyway so click click click like we're wondering she's gonna be okay when's your birthday when's her birthday are you looking forward to your first christmas without her cora said she knew her sister was involved but she couldn't prove it uh obviously now she says though she never suspected her mother she says i don't know what uh obviously now she says though she never suspected

her mother she says i don't know what to do now i i have to see what happens this she's just like who the fuck knows now so they charge anna and peggy is gonna get immunity harold they go to charge like snake uh his his charges have been delayed because of a report saying that he is mentally incapable of assisting in his defense. So he's claiming he's mentally unfit and a court report backs him up. Wow. So his whole thing is delayed. So Snake is just fucking lounging right now. He is not charged with murder at first here.

So, yeah, then at the trial they find a couple other things they find a two women named ronda howlett and katherine wright and they're cellmates of anna bouchard what do they say they said that uh uh first of all the judge said they don't right away this is funny in the trial the judge said that they quote i'm troubled about the practice of putting a person like anna bouch, who had no prior involvement with the law, in a cell with such persons. Not infrequently, by the time of trial, a cellmate comes forward with a testimony favorable to the prosecution.

So they're saying, I don't like someone who's not a hardened criminal being put in a cell with hardened criminals. That's jail. What are you supposed to do? I mean, at some point, you've committed a crime you're about to be a hardened criminal i do hate these the the cellmate confessions though because they do suck because there's no way to know if it's true there's just no fucking way to know and you know that who knows that there is there is something you will say that is may not even be true just to survive in prison yeah because that's what you're

taught is that these people will fucking murder you and if you don't act badder than them yeah worse than them is it badder it's badder right better harder i don't know if you don't act as crazy as they do they'll fuck with you you'll be a victim in prison well as the other thing of also even if you did do it you will you're more likely just in that space you feel private so you might feel like you could tell this person and you that person also you're in a cell with a person who might be a con artist trying to get information out of you they can use against you so it's a literally catch 22 all the way around double-edged sword right is that what that is?

Yeah, sure. I think so. I don't know. I'm trying to use metaphors. Jimmy's finding idioms and metaphors and fucking... Just going to throw a simile in there. You're damned if you do. You're damned if you don't, right? That's right.

Shit. I mean... Fuck either way. If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle, right? I mean, that's what I'm saying. Right? Right. All right all right then god damn it so uh they provide their testimony here uh they say uh ronda's testimony says that uh uh statements made by anna and uh she says that uh um you know anna admitted everything to her and she said that Catherine Wright said to her,

Anna, you're saying that you're guilty, and she said that she did say that. Anna made statements that she didn't want Cora to leave her home and that she'd given Peggy some money and wasn't supposed to come in contact with anyone, and she was just in contact with Peggy. She didn't talk to the murderer or anything like that. She said, quote, the way

they planned it, it was supposed to have happened on a Wednesday, but Anna said that it happened on a Thursday, which is what happened here. They go all into the whole plan here. And I guess Anna was using a lot of we and all this sort of shit. We did this and we did that. Oh, Anna. Yeah.

Now she says, Anna says that she was being held in jail and she said that she uh she said her cellmates had newspaper accounts of the murder and had talked about what they read and so that's how they knew stuff basically they they were you know had just talked to her about the case but she didn't admit to anything um according to one of the cellmates anna said that she um um you know that that she was supposed to uh basically i'll put this in into this they said that uh uh um i'm sorry never mind there's a thing about the shooting but it wasn't she was like a metaphor she was using that wasn't really a metaphor it's just fucking confusing yeah it's just if my aunt had bullshit to be my uncle

it's a double edged sword. Yeah, exactly where I was going with that. Like, you know, it's one of those. So, yeah. So most of it was basically they got these two women in here to come out and say that Anna said that she was guilty. They were literally said that they said to her, you're saying you're guilty, right? And she said, yes. So she says she confessed in prison.

Yeah. Now, Anna Bouchard admits that she gave Peggy Stevens $100. And Bouchard also said that she didn't give it to Peggy to get anybody killed. She gave it to gave the son to harold so harold would fix her car so this was payment for some auto work that he was doing for her there was wasn't a murder a murder thing here harold's a backyard mechanic who kept uh you know who usually kept was out was fixing people's cars for a price here or there old snake yeah snake can fix anything here snakes loves cars yeah snakes loves cars now larry bouchard uh the brother yeah cora and peggy's brother he says that he borrowed 390

that his mother borrowed 396 dollars from him yeah uh when some when some money orders were lost so that the house payment could be made and that and that when the money was when the lost money orders were recovered he kept 300 and allowed his mother to have 96 so she could have her car repaired and anna said that she added five dollars and put one dollar back in her purse and then gave the hundred dollars to peggy stevens said you have that boy fix my car there was so little cash circulating around this entire they know what they did with a dollar a dollar they literally like i took that other dollar and I put it in my purse.

Yeah, this is, wow. They can account for every dollar they've ever seen. Everything. Everything. Jesus Christ. Now, Anna's lawyer, let's not even give his name,

let's not confuse with more names. He said there's no evidence that his client discussed, entertained, or took part in a homicide. Bullshit. Hill's lawyer, the actual trigger man, he said that his client is, quote, flat out not guilty. It's a circumstantial case, and we have a rational explanation for everything that occurred here. Right. Obviously.

He says, as a matter of fact, the night that this happened, Thursday, October 3rd, Hill wasn't even out. He wasn't at a bar. He wasn't out on a dirt road shooting everybody. He was home. You know what he was doing at home? You know what he was doing? Watching the Cosby show, as a matter of fact. Guilty.

He's watching the Cosby show. If they only knew at the time, the judge would have been, where's my gavel? Jesus Christ. And I looked it up. There was a Cosby show on that night. That night? A new one called The Juicer was the name of it. Cliff warns Rudy not to play with his new juicer, but the machine's fancy gadgetry eventually

proves to be too much of a temptation for Rudy and her friend Peter. That's a little fat kid, I think. How perfect is this? Tell me more about this juicer. Cliff finds out and suspects that Rudy is responsible. After Claire prods Rudy's conscience, she admits the truth and is allowed to and is assigned to help Vanessa punished for not keeping an eye on Rudy as she's been told to to clean the resulting mess.

So he was watching that. He wasn't murdering people. You can't get any more different. Watch a little Rudy destroy the kitchen. Watch Rudy trying to juice something. What's more innocent than that? Jesus Christ, man. She probably sent orange juice all over the kitchen. Watch Rudy trying to juice something. What's more innocent than that? Jesus Christ, man. She probably sent orange juice all over the kitchen.

Yeah, and they said that the $100 given back and forth between them and the motorcycle, that was nothing more than friends getting together or repaying debts. That's all. They just I borrowed something here from you. You borrow. I've known this guy since high school. What are you kidding me? Jesus Christ. They

said it's built on fantastic motives is what the defense is saying when you look at it from this logical point of view it doesn't make a lot of sense just because someone killed someone for a stupid reason doesn't mean they didn't do it right that's that's the thing that police always say is motives nice motives is nice to tell the jury the jury wants to have a why all right but legally motive doesn't mean shit why does it matter to anything why does it matter they want to know who and where they don't give a fuck about why why doesn't change the penalty and and the and the fucking that you get years and there's a set amount and it's not why doesn't change doesn't matter they say they

talk about in the homicide book they talk about where one of the cops goes, yeah, motive doesn't matter. He goes, why Tater shot Pee Wee in the 400 block of Gold Avenue doesn't fucking matter to me. That doesn't matter. I just know he did it. That's all. Who cares why? What's the difference? That's nice for a story and for a jury, but I mean, in legal, really, it doesn't matter.

So now Peggy is cross-examined about uh about a theft of a trailer by hill's lawyer because peggy stevens and hill are being tried together oh by the way they have tied them together hill stevens and bouchard are all in the one big mass together so their lawyers are like cross-examining each other and they're blaming each other well wow so yeah it's a mess so peggy stevens is cross-examined she ends up having to admit that hill and snake stole a trailer from bnl campers during that time period and that she said she was home at that time the trailer was bought brought to snake and peggy's home and peggy denied any knowledge of conversations of of money or anything like that but hill is trying to

say that the hundred dollars on the motorcycle were for help stealing the trailer not for a murder so when you say trailer like a fucking flatbed trailer like a you drag it but shit fucking nose with these people yeah it could have been anything jimmy it could have been a piece of wood with one wheel on it that they just dragged behind the thing like i stole me a trailer right who this with this cabal of shit anything is possible bro i'm not i've had it with this this is crazy oh my god so um yeah well why well you know what i mean jesus christ so um yeah they go on and talk about telephone calls hill says that uh uh says that the telephone calls made from his home to the bouchard home uh and to and to his home from oswald's home in bay city he said that he didn't know who he talked to but it was a woman's voice and he thinks it was anna so they're trying to put

anna in there um they also said he denies that he ever told the stevens is is is that he killed rod and suggested the reason peggy said he did was that quote maybe they're mad because i pressured them for the money uh which is the helping steal the trailer that's what they're mad about so they're gonna frame him for murder which would make as much sense as murdering a man for trying to take care of his stepson right it's about about the same it's silly but i don't know he was home watching the prog cosby show so it doesn't matter here uh also in summation here the uh hills attorney called peggy stevens uh said that she quote had ice in her veins and that she was a cold-blooded killer and uh the bottom line is that the stevens are up uh are up to here in this case and they're doing their best to get out of it.

That's how they do this. They call Snake an admitted murderer who's as free as a goose because of his mental thing right now. So the verdict comes in guilty for all these idiots, all three of these idiots. Now, that comes in. In the sentencing, when that comes up, the judge has something to say about this. He says this is Judge Simons. He says that in all his years as a judge, he'd never seen such a senseless killing. He said that the that other murder cases that he's handled had been, quote, understandable motives of greed, money or jealousy, but that this was just a cold calculated killing.

but that this was just a cold, calculated killing. You, sir, and ma'ams, all of you, may fuck off. Life sentence for everybody. Yes. Now, in addition to that, they get life sentence. Also, Anna, she receives a second sentence of 30 to 60 years for conspiracy. Oh, shit. And Hill gets 40 to 60 years for conspiracy as well so uh yes so it's a life sentence for both and then a little extra on top of that and peggy

gets uh a life peggy gets no peggy gets immunity oh she had a peggy didn't get shit oh he's got immunity from all prosecution awesome yeah peggy gets free as a bird okay she's floating yeah free as a goose really two of them yeah uh september nice free as a bird. Okay. She's floating. Yeah, free as a goose. Yeah, it's really two of them. September, free as a snake, actually. Yeah. September 86th, the snake must have, it's weird, he's sane now. Super strange. Yeah.

One day he's insane, next day, fucking sane. Totally sane. September 86th, they take Snake to trial here, and Peggy has to, they only only have peggy statements that they made to police but they can't get peggy to testify against him obviously uh but it's better because in this trial they uh they had found the shotgun by now which was not evident at the previous trial now they have the murder weapon and apparently it's hard to find uh get ballistics off a shotgun right because you know it's a different thing. But this particular shotgun, which a Charlotte man said he loaned to Tony Hill.

That's how this whole thing happened. That's why it wasn't around because it wasn't his gun. He gave it back to the guy and then got it back, was fired so close to Rodney that a peculiar plastic wadding was found in the chest wound. It was so close. And they said that they were able to match marks on the wadding with the jagged end of the gun barrel where it had been sawed off. So that's how they figured out that it was from that gun. What a dipshit. They basically made their own ballistics with this gun. You would have never known that that would happen.

Random shotgun. Nope. Had no idea that he made his own ballistics. So, yeah, that's what ends up happening. So this is amazing. The guy whose gun it was. I'm sorry. There's a state sergeant here with the police department, Millard Holton.

And he's the guy who is able to match the marks on everything with the gun barrel where it had been sawed off and all that sort of thing. on everything with the gun barrel where it had been sawed off and all that sort of thing uh the problem is he almost wasn't able to testify this halton yeah because this is the weirdest reason ever he was seriously injured when a cider press tipped over on him thank god i've never been around one of those cider press they sound dangerous as shit just tipped over on him whoops so apparently he wasn't able to testify so another officer had to repeat his tests and then go testify to their results but yeah he he couldn't testify that's amazing how great is that so finally uh snakes the trial of snake here uh he after two and a half hours uh he is the jury deliberates for he's found guilty yes of of everything here

of conspiracy uh to commit murder and murder in the first degree and everything else um now everybody else has has life sentences but he's they're going to appeal those by the way uh i can't believe peggy has complete immunity there that's that's fucking wild man yeah this is it was part of part of partly her idea you know what i mean that's what i mean oh she was all involved she was as involved as anybody she was just the first person to say she'd flip that's all it was i can help you solve sammy the bull he was the first guy to talk yeah so uh the chief prosecutor here said without persistent efforts we wouldn't have solved this case uh it was a tough one with angles going all the way from barry county to bay city to indiana and florida the fact that most of the people

involved here were in the same family didn't make it any easier and that's the that's what the thing was because that's not what they expected at first because you would expect a major beef you'd say oh they had you know a property dispute over a big you know something that's been going on for a long time dispute uh yeah somebody's shitting somebody's pillowcase said something for a lot of money people feels and mccoy's under one roof people kill for a lot of money they kill for an old beef they kill for property they don't kill for i think i want to spend more time with that kid that's not why people kill no if it's not their kid like it's super fucking weird to do that is unbelievable so may of 1988 uh ann is appealing yeah uh ann is going to appeal her life uh no she does not she does not uh get life and uh basically uh she uh

the appellate court rules that a judge in in her case made an error inconsistent with substantial justice when he refused to allow the jury to hear some testimony for a second time yeah apparently this was testimony uh statements made by uh peggy Stevens, who revealed the whole plot and everything like that. She was granted immunity, blah, blah, blah. The two jail informants also implicated her. Now, the appeals court said that the judge declined an initial jury request to have Stevens testimony reread. And the next day, the judge said further testimony would not be available. So the jurors asked to have testimony read back to them, which happens all the time.

They ask, can I have that again? Can we have this? And they said no, which is weird. Usually, whatever you need, they give them. And if it helps them make a decision here. But apparently, this is decided on by an appeals court and said that that is not legal to do that. It actually caused an error in the case and they uh they end up they they end up uh throwing out her sentence they vacate it they vacate the whole deal basically if they want her they got to retry and

they throw her whole thing out so they go sure let's retry her let's do it fucking yesterday we got enough evidence. Yeah. So in this case, basically, she could be found not guilty and go home. She could be found guilty and get a lesser sentence. She can be found guilty and get a worse sentence. You never know. Do we got Peggy involved still?

Peggy's got immunity. Yeah. They have all of her testimony in here. Now, this is her trial here. Basically, she's still professing her complete innocence you know everything like that and uh also her daughter has to testify again and anything that she doesn't say they have her you know they have her uh her testimony her recorded or transcripts of the other ones so uh uh yeah now after the original trial like we said she got life and then 30 to 60

here they find her guilty again uh she's so again that's two times now this is both first degree murder and conspiracy to commit first degree murder and for that she receives you ma'am may fuck off two life sentences rather than one 30 to 60 so she got extra time oh my god they gave you want to go for another they got her i gave her extra time they gave her the old uh yeah they got two months i got you for two months they gave her the old breakfast club you want another saturday detention stacking them up sherry you want to talk about another trial well let's uh let's see what else we could do three life sentences i think they reinstated the death penalty last year. Maybe we should give her another fucking run. What do you say, Anna?

Yes. You feeling fucking lucky? You feeling lucky? So now she's sitting in there. Two life sentences. Yeah. Harold is in there for life. So we have life, life, and life.

Three lifers. Cora, you know, gone. You know, doesn't have her boyfriend. Rodney's dead. Peggy Stevens free as a fucking bird. Yeah. What do you think the relationship is like? Oh, boy.

Between Cora and Peggy. Oh, my God. Because this happened in, you know, 1985. So a lot of time has gone by. I don't know. She could have. Sisters are weird. She could have gone and made up with her just based on the fact that she had some sort of

guilty conscience and and just told on everybody or i don't know do you do you run with the you only are here and out of jail because you're a piece of shit and you couldn't do the time i don't know what it is i don't know if you i don't know what kind of person core is i don't know how strong because i mean there's some people would be like fuck her i'll never talk to her again there's some people would be like i mean it was a long time ago. Christmas is coming up. I'd like to give my kids another gift. She made mistakes.

And I don't really have my mom's in prison. I don't really have a lot of family left. I don't know. My mom, my sister never murdered anybody in my family. And I don't talk to her. That's what I mean. There's plenty of family members I don't talk to. And they never killed anybody in my family.

So I might write people off quicker than most but not this this is this would be too friendly if you're if you're okay with this type of shit can you fucking imagine no what do you say to somebody like at christmas for that hi oh man anytime there's like a picture i remember when we were kids when mom and did this that'd? Yeah, it was so much fun. I wish mom was here. Too bad you conspired with her to kill my boyfriend. That sucks. That really sucks.

Because, you know, her stuffing was the best. She's put sausage in it. So good. You're an asshole. Merry Christmas, fuck weasel. By the way, stuffing is the thing that people make the most different. Everyone makes it so different and nobody's stuffing is any good. It's all shit.

It's all a pile of shit. It's all shit. I don't know. I like it. It's my favorite part of it. I want it to be good. I eat it every time. I'll put a pile on my plate, take a bite, and I'm like, nope, that's gross.

I want it to be good. It's never good. It looks good. The theory of it sounds good, and then I go to eat to be good? It's never good. It looks good. The theory of it sounds good, and then I go to eat it, and it tastes like fucking dog shit. It's always like too many onions or something. Dickhead put a raisin in it or something. What the fuck are you people doing? Grapes.

Who's got grapes in the fucking stuffing? Just put some fucking stovetop in it, and I'm happy. I don't care. Just don't put weird shit in it. I have to eat the Pepperidge Farm like the squares that you actually make the with broth and all that shit you gotta actually do it by yourself i can't eat that before i can't eat stovetop because i threw it up once and you did some things you won't eat again well that's got the most distinctive flavor in the world so i can see that when it comes back way worse yeah i could and that's all it is now to me we've all thrown up stovetop i mean i Jimmy. Is it? The cornbread kind?

Everyone has, yeah. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. And then people stuff it inside a turkey and they get, you know, fucking diseases in there. I was 24 and an asshole that lived alone and couldn't... Did you just make a meal of stuffing? I did. Yeah, I've done that.

And I had the flu at the time and i was just like this will be good for me it's got chicken broth it's gonna soak it up too it's gonna soak it too and it didn't no it made it worse you'd be better off with dinty more i feel like probably you could have just dintied your more and you'd have been fucking much better off bro jimmy's hates stove tops oh jimmy's hates stove tops i can't eat j Jimmy's hates stovetops. I can't either. Jesus Christ. It's the worst, man. You shouldn't have made fucking pasta. What's wrong with you?

Now that's what I do. I eat pasta and rice when I don't have a lot of time. It's easy. Fuck it. This will boil and it'll be fine. It's easy, it's quick, it's like a dollar. You can't beat it. It's water and that.

Done. A whole meal for $1.19. Yay. I win. They have these egg noodles at the grocery store that are like, they're like, they're like how you make fucking pasta. It's so good. Yeah. And I sit on the couch and just.

Egg noodles? It's an, it's an egg noodle. It's an egg, like. What do you mean? Are you calling it an egg noodle or does it say egg noodles on the back? It says egg noodles on it. Oh, that's weird. Are they yellow ones?

Yeah, they're yellowish. It's a different egg noodle, man. I'm telling you. Okay. If I made it, you'd be like, yeah, it's okay. It's not, it's not my homemade shit. Yeah, yeah. It's serviceable. Okay. man. I'm telling you. If I made it, you'd be like, yeah, it's okay. It's not my homemade shit. Yeah, yeah. It's serviceable.

Okay. And that's what I eat. I'll just throw fucking butter and Parmesan on it and sit on my couch like a monster. A lot of pepper in there. Yeah, like a fucking seven-year-old. That's good shit. Yeah, like a seven-year-old here. A seven-year-old that can't eat pasta like an adult.

They don't like sauce. Right. Hurts their mouth. It makes my teeth hurt. Oh, it's got pepper in it yeah pepper and meat oh you little prick so anyway that said that is uh nashville michigan and the bouchard family and a bunch of craziness and some guy that really didn't have to die get killed for no fucking reason that's uh he defended the country as a as a very skinny man. He defended the country as a very skinny man. Yeah, he defended the country in the early 80s.

For no reason. I mean, from nothing, let's be honest. For no reason he's a murderer. But still, he signed up and he did it. And now he's dead. That's fucked up. Right. He's not killed by Russians, but killed by some dipshit in a country road on the side.

A terrorist of one way or another. I mean, they fucking ruined him. So if you like like that show i know how you can tell us about it you can get on apple podcast the purple icon or head over to stitcher either one give us five stars doesn't matter what you say say you're following instructions say you're following directions doesn't matter it's not for our ego it's literally just to drive us up the charts and help us on the business end so if you want to do that it it's a favor. It's a little solid. So do us a solid and do that. If you want to be an even bigger hero and do us a bigger favor

and become one of our producers who we're going to talk about very, very soon, you can do that very easily by going to patreon.com slash crimeinsports or head over to PayPal and use our email address, crimeinsports at gmail.com and make a one-time donation like that. And we just can't thank you guys enough for doing that. And we're going to definitely do another bonus episode next week. We're going to try to do them every other week. And we're going to try to squeeze some extra bonus shit in here and there.

We just want to make it so there's always some extra bonus stuff going on so we can kind of just stay in our orbit. Hang out with us. We'll keep you doing that. Or hopefully we will. So yeah, do that. I know the bonus episodes are for the $5 and above. And I know if you sign up, you get all the old back ones too. Because people were asking us about that.

Do I only get the new ones? You get everything if you sign up. So you can do that. Sign up and come hang out with us. Also, follow us on social media. At Murder Small on Twitter. At Small Town Pod on Facebook. And at Small Town Murder on Instagram. up and and come hang out with us also follow us on social media at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook and at small town murder on instagram and that's where you can get all of the newest and uh you know new stuff that comes up we get a we get a new show a new live

show we're going to tell you on there before you're going to hear it on the actual podcast the live show we might as well just say it now the date's not going anywhere the live show they're not for sale yet but the live the live show we just found out is going to be October 2nd in Phoenix. That is going to be the same night. There'll be a crime and sports and small town murder. Same night at the Tempe Improv. Early show, late show. So that's how we're going to do that.

I'm not sure which show is early and which show is late. I don't know either. I don't know either i don't know either i don't know how that which one would be better but buy tickets for both because both shows will be crazy and if especially if you're a small town murder listener you don't like crime and sport you don't know much about crime and sports that'll be the time to check it out check it out the comedy show it's going to be a crazy comedy show you're going to laugh your ass off and i bet you we can win you over to crime and sports if you can see that live because it is just absolutely nuts live so fun it's the most fun live it's great and not that small town

murder isn't insanely fun live but there's just something about crime and sports that is just i don't know what it is i think it's because the people's lives are so uh photographed and so documented that you see so much shit you really get a picture of what they did and why and yeah actually you don't really ever know why. No, no one knows why. Brain damage is the only thing that we can sum it up to. But that said, yeah, do that. Follow us on social media.

Find us everywhere. Be our pals and all that sort of thing here. And some of these people who have done that are fucking amazing. We can't thank them enough. And we're going to shout them out in the producers. Also, just want to go over, head over to shut up and give me murder dot com for all of your needs and all of your crime and sports and your small town murder needs. But especially for all of your live show tickets here, just to run down a few if you're interested, because some of them are getting sold out. That second Portland show is now sold out.

Right. So both those shows on June 6th and 7th at the Aladdin are sold out in Portland now. Sorry about that, everybody. Seattle, there's a few tickets left. They're like our comps that they need to release. So everything's sold out except what they give to us, which we don't need because we don't know. We don't have family in Seattle.

So we're going to let those go. So there'll be some new tickets released for Seattle very soon. A few of those. San Francisco, the 13th and 14th of March. Two late shows at Cobbs. That's going to be a lot of fun. Late shows with Small Town Murder. March 27th and 28th in Detroit and in Cincinnati. April 7th and 8th in Nashville for Crime and Sports and Small Town Murder, of course.

May, we're going to be in Austin and Oklahoma City on the 8th and 9th and 9th come check us out there we're braving tornado alley also so come check us out here may 22nd we're in boston that thing there's a few singles left at the in the balcony at the wilbur up there but you guys have man you guys are amazing thank you so much and then may 23rd in boston those are sell are in new york at the uh at the Murmur in Brooklyn. Those are selling pretty fast too, so you want to get on those. A couple of them, just like Minneapolis, Chicago, those are selling really fast in December.

Minneapolis is over 60% sold out, and it's in December. So get your tickets to that. Also, all your Florida people, Tampa and Orlando and California, San Diego and Brea and San Jose. Right. Yes, because that's the one that's not sold out.

No. Sacramento sold out. Get all your tickets there, everybody. Thank you guys so much for everybody that has. We can't wait to come see you guys out there and have a good show for everyone. That said, I think I need to hear something heartwarming. Right. That said, I think I need to hear something heartwarming. Warm my heart with the list of people who are my favorite. List of people I would never lure out to a rural road and shoot with a sawed-off shotgun.

Hit me with them, Jimmy. This week's executive producers are Chris Hassan, Clay Thorson, all the guys over there at the BFG plant in Indiana. They came to the show in Indy. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys, so much. We really appreciate you. Ryan James, Nicole Marino-Peters. Also, we have, what is that?

Is that Ian? Yes. Ian Wilkinson, Tonya Volanek, Robin Brown-Gallaghan. Yeah? Yes. Ryan Dempsey and Jordan Bennett. Thank you guys so much for everything you do. We can't do it without you.

We appreciate it so much for everything you do. We can't do it without you. Other producers this week are Ted Glossomeyer, Taylor Shipley, step in and get comfortable because this is going to be a long one. Jennifer Ross, Ishmael Guerrero, Robin Bevan, yes, Rhonda Herr,

Adina Hampton, Cheyenne with no last name, Eric Vasquez, David Adelson, no, Don. Sorry, Don. Jesus, that's Don Adelson. Even the same amount of letters. I know. That's a W. It kind of looks like a V.

I don't know. Okay. Marissa, Marissa, Marissa Saluri. Lucinda Powell. Dan Seward. Rick Bryant. Brandy Winner. Winner. Yeah, it is Winner.

Jay Poole. Okay, here we go. Victoria Griffith. Aaron Temple. Vincent Nassef. Tries to get himself on a roll. Here we go. Psyching myself out.

You ready? Now I can read chris tucker's daughter lisa tucker that's who that is uh brad brad's uh shit severe mata scissor mat scissor mata scissor mata no it's not right vincent nacef i said that jen visconti tyler forester uh ray sanders john myers matthew walk mariella ren Renquist, Jessica with no last name, Molly Block, Stephanie Sherman Stacy, no that's Tracy Ainsworth Brooke Kale

Big Boy Trivia Oh it's a podcast. Lisa Bell, Chantel Meacham Max Daniels, Sam Hart, welcome Oh Welcome Sam Hart Sam Hart,, dickhead. That's what I was supposed to say from his brother.

Thank you. His other, whoever the other Hart is. Welcome, dickhead. Artney with no last name. Kim Cuse, Shola Agora, Diana McGuire. Diana McGuire. Okay. Lucinda Lynch Powell. Sarah Jones, Forrest Shoemaker. No. mcguire okay lucinda lucinda lynch powell sarah jones forest shoemaker no shum shumbler

shoam shoam lieber that's what that is that's shoemaker right same thing and scott margaret pelson uh no prob i think that's right caitlinack, Brian Johnson, Peregrine Rusk... Ah, fuck. Ruscarola? Ruscorla. Mullen 11. I don't know what that is. Okay.

That's a thing, though. Jeff Hawkins? No, Hankins. No, that's Hawkins. Ryan Pearson, Lily Williams, Jennifer Hughes, Chris Bartoli? Yeah, Christopher Bartoli. Oh. Bartoli.

No, it's Bartolini. Jesus. God damn it. He even told me to have you pronounce it because it's Italian. But I chose not to, and I chose the wrong path. Sarah Patton, Josh Hennick, Adam with no last name, Jennifer Beachman. No, Bateman. That's what that is.

Scott Bledsoe, Gustavo Cheezetoe, Special Teams, Jason Dingers. Yep, Dingus. That's what that is scott bledsoe gustavo cheesetoe uh special teams jason dingers yep dingus that's what that is okay colleen ingham uh natasha hargrove sandy mcmillan vicky hayward scott frazier amara mikhail karen rice uh kerry walney i think margaret gary some schmuck will William with no last name. Brian Minnelli. Nikki Slade. Megan Barr. Regina Reginald. Reginald Matthews. Sam Beasley. Ryan Cody.

Matt Ava. Shelby Baugh. Byron Bell. James Templeton. Backside of this thing. Brittany Boltman. Rodney Johnson. That is two dick names.

That's what that is. Jen R that is uh jen riles keith cerny uh ashley carson matt matt zick that's that's karen edwards shanna bell uh russ warns or ross i think i think it's russ no it's probably ross um michael reba amy burkhart why is it more likely ross than ross because it looks more like an o oh okay it's based on your writing right it's probably ross uh rachel taylor blake glahn uh hannah weeks sandy l uh keaton with no last name katie weiss uh kyle bailey i think i said that jane woods alicia lafrance emily thebolt or thebolt uh jane woods i said that damn it david right ranley uh lauren reed cara james Thibault, Jane Woods, David Ranley, Lauren Reed, Kara James, Taylor with no last name, Jill Knapp, Chris Bartolini, Emma Smith, Jordan Baca, Andrew Bailey, Colt Calvin, Chris Crow, Megan Good, Deanna Grimes, Drew Mixon, Chris Ty don't know what I'm saying. Devin with no last name.

Deanna Grimes. Drew Mixon. Chris Tyner. Kimberly Huven. No, Kimber Huven. Deanna Grimes. Linda Boardman. Shelby Montesani.

Fuck. Chris Tyner. Donna Easley. Natasha Wilcox. Chris Miller. Megan Morrill. Becca Penderzani. Krista Downs.

Chris Miller. Lindsay Greff, Alexander Green, Lauren Kellen, Sanjay Habagizand, Frank Gant, Melody Crenshaw, Katie Ball, and Home Stretch. God damn it. Here we go. Jesse Hartman, Melissa Turner, Bailey Payton, Brianna Poland, James Marder, Reagan Shalkley, Peyton Meadows, Liz Vasquez, Cameron Leopold, Total Axe in Michigan. Thank you, by the way. I threw axes this past weekend. And they saw me on Instagram throwing axes, and they called the axe place and sent me waters because they didn't send beers.

That's nice. So that was very nice. Thank you. That's good. Bethany Lampke. Bethany Lampke. God damn it. Josh Jessup.

Gary Howard. Thanks, Gary. Hey. Laura N. Wallace. Tracy Renninger. Jackie Sukup. TJ Maxx. TJ.

Mack. God damn it. Yeah, not Maxx. I know her, and I said Maxx. TJ. It's a girl. I just found out her real name. I know.

I did, too I said Max. DJ. I just found out her real name. I know. I did, too. Fascinating. Lisa Ward, Trey Volkanar, Amanda Knight, Ted Cyrus, Jude Kendall, Michael Jacobs, Brian Riley, Janice Hill, Dove Harper, Cynthia Carmona, Thomas Smith, Steve Schnell, James La Russa, Tyler Gwill, Blair Bodner, Sierra Stratton, Emmy Dumont, Marla Happany, Lorenzo Gutierrez, Robert Steyer, James Graben, or Craig, that's Graben, Craig Cole, Gianna, Gianna DeLuca, Susanna Platt, Brendan Ables, Bill Suszynski, Amanda, no, that's Angela Serrano, I was on a roll, Kelly Higby, and Ashley Veo, and Dustin DeMaria, Dove wants to marry you. So look at her. Yes or no, fucker.

Yeah. Pick a fucking answer here. We're waiting. We're waiting. Let us know how it works out. Congratulations. Tell us about your romantic fucking fairy tale. Sorry if he said no.

Yeah. Thank you guys so, so much, especially all of our Patreon supporters. And then also thanks to, we got a letter, and he's the sweetest dude. Kevin Blyme, or Blyme, his brother is serving in the military,

and they talk about the show. Oh, cool. They fucking call each other and talk about this shit. So thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you for your service. Thanks for your donation

and your meets. You sent us the meets, and we appreciate it. Thank you guys so you for your service thanks for your donation and your and your meats you sent us the meats and we appreciate it thank you guys so much for doing what you do thank you so much everybody for all that you've done for us and all that you continue to do for us it means the goddamn world to us and you really keep us rolling along i'll tell you that right now it's it's everything to us thank you so much jimmy what if they wanted to thank you or insult you or really do anything if they wanted to contact you or insult you or really do anything? If they wanted to contact you, how could they do it? You can find me at Wisman Sucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N on Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and that's

it because I got rid of that old goddamn Snapchat. It's a pain in the dick, man. Yeah, that's so stupid. I have OCD. If you had to learn it for a year, it's not good. I just got OCD with that little notification of all the messages that I have there. And I try to clear them all out. And then I'd clear them all out.

And then it's got 250 more. I'm like, I can't do this. It's too much. I felt like Jim Carrey in Bruce Almighty where you fix it all and then it's all gone. And Sammy T turned seven. And Abby Green from Wesley. Somebody wanted to say hello to you, too. So their parents or friends or family messaged me and asked me to mention them.

And they are patron donors. Well, thank you very much. So thank you guys so much for everything. I appreciate it. Where can they find you? You can find me at Jimmy P is funny or just copy and paste my name from the show description. Find me that way. It's a lot easier than trying to figure out how to spell it. Trust me.

It took me to like the second grade. I could read books but not spell my last name. That's how it works there. So thank you guys for everything you do for us. I also couldn't. Following us. Yeah, Jimmy still can't read names. He still hasn't figured that one out. Books. We're working on books. Maybe some other time. I would fuck your name

so hard. Oh yeah, you would have been like Petra. We're working on books. Maybe some other time. I would fuck your name so hard. Oh, yeah. You would have been like, Petra, oh, God. Pia, pia, pata, pata, poo. Oh, no. This is terrible. Jesus Christ. I don't know. But, yeah, with all that said, we can't wait for next week and all these live shows.

By the way, next two weeks are nuts. We have shows that are bonkers on this show. Right. So tune into that and keep coming back, and we will. And until next week everybody it's been our pleasure hey prime members you can listen to small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed, red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new

case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, We'll see you next time.