Small Town Murder - #187 - Remorse Is For Suckers in Reeds Spring, Missouri

Episode Date: September 3, 2020

This week, in Reeds Spring, Missouri, when three, very rural local residents are found brutally killed, including a teenager, investigators uncover a tale of trust, drugs, deception, and an elaborate murder plot that could only be the work of one man. That man doesn't mind being caught because "God is his attorney", so he'll be fine. The crazy thing is how it all works out. Was he right? This one is as weird as it gets!! Along the way, we find out that not all sundowns are pleasant & relaxing, that you can ride a 4 wheeler if you're a paraplegic, and that even if God can't get you out from under a murder charge, all hope is not lost!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Reed Spring, Missouri, it's a tale as old as time, one of betrayal, paranoia, and heartless brutality, complete

with Jesus taking on his first murder case as an attorney and an intervention from an extremely different kind of source. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i am jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us on another crazy edition here hope you guys enjoyed last week i think you did we had a lot of good feedback because a happy weird ending last week which is a strange way to put it but if you didn't listen to last week go back and listen to last week because it's an adventure the next two weeks though this week and next week whoa buckle up yeah this week is just an it's insane it's insane and the next week you won't even believe it totally different but even crazier i'm telling you believe it whoa it's

wild uh quickly though thank you for everything you've done for us this week of course everybody first of all starting with your reviews those those Apple podcast purple icon. They help for some reason. Those reviews. I don't know why. I've yet to find out in four years of podcasting. We have no idea why it helps. But if you leave reviews, it helps drive us up the charts. So please do that.

Leave a review. Tell us what your favorite appetizer is. They're delicious. That's good. Five stars would be wonderful. Other than that, head over to shut up and give meMurder.com for everything you could possibly need. Crime and sports and small-town murder related. Crime and sports this week.

Check that out as well. It is a guy, just a crazy adventure through the 70s. It's a Curtis Mayfield song in a human being. You've got to check it out. Joe Gilliam of the Steelers. Check that one out. And, of course, as well, check out PSA Hate This Movie on Friday, where we're going to talk about Grease 2, which is an abomination, obviously, because Grease 1 shouldn't have

been a thing. So there you go. There's that. Check that out. Lots of fun there and everything. Also, if you want to be a producer of the show, a special person to us, a special person. And on top of being a special person, you're going to get stuff for you as well. You can do that very easily. First of all, you are going to get stuff for you as well. You can do that very easily.

First of all, you are going to get Jimmy mispronouncing your name at the end of the show. If you have an Italian name, you won't even recognize it probably. I like that. You'll get a new one. That's all. It's a new name for you that Jimmy will assign you. In addition to that, you're going to get so much good stuff

in terms of bonus material, and we have a ton this week. Just this week, you're going to get Crime and Sports and Small Town Murder bonus material. This week for Crime and week, you're going to get Crime and Sports and Small Town Murder bonus material. This week for Crime and Sports, we're going to talk about Action Park, the back east amusement park where everybody got hurt and mangled. They've done a recent documentary. I read the book, and I grew up 50 miles from there and have been there before. And so I have some insight there on the whole thing. So we're going to talk about that.

That'll be crazy. And then for Small Town Murders, we are going to talk about the documentary right it's called good night sugar we're going to do that one which is disgusting we've had a lot of requests for that people when we did stevie people are like hey why don't you do that one so we're going to do that this week i hate you for telling me to watch that yeah it's pretty gross there's we'll talk about it stevie was uncomfortable yeah this is way more uncomfortable. It's going to be gross, guys. I promise you, the next episode, we're going to do something fun.

People have asked us to talk about next bonus episode. They've asked us to talk about crappy jobs we've had. We'll do something like that, maybe. But whatever, we'll do that. That's patreon.com slash crimeandsports for all of that. Or if you just want to be a good person with good karma and go to PayPal, you can do that as well and jimmy will mispronounce your name use our email address crime and sports at gmail.com quickly the disclaimer this is a comedy show we're comedians we're gonna make jokes it's gonna happen i mean i'm sorry but that's that's the way it is people are gonna die in here it's a

it's a murder show so death happens and jokes happen they don't have to happen on top of each other as a thing you don't have to joke about someone being murdered that's that you don't have to joke about that but you can joke about tons of other stuff around it because a lot of times murder it's ridiculous it's a ridiculous situation that leads to it and you know it's a preposterous ending and we got to get there that's the thing you know that's the thing you never know what goes through someone's head we'll talk about it and try've got to get there somehow. That's the thing. You know, that's the thing. You never know. What goes through someone's head, we'll talk about it and try to find it out and then make fun of it. That's how it works there.

And if that sounds good to you, great. But what we're going to try not to do, and we go out of our way not to do, is we try not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families because we're assholes. Tell me more. But we're not scumbags. There you go. That's how it works there. So if that sounds good to you, sit back and relax and have a good time if it doesn't then you know true crime and comedy should never go together you probably the show probably isn't for you thanks for trying you might like it if you listen because it's not probably what you think but still we understand

have a good one don't complain later it's for you that might be for the rest of you who want to have a good time and sit back and shout from the lungs, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. All right. What do you say? Let's go on a trip. Okay. Shall we?

It's not that far of a trip. No. Honestly, we were in Iowa last week and we're going down to Missouri, which is right down there. It's a straight shot. Straight shot down there, but it's a good distance from it because it's southern Missouri. We're going into the Ozarks this week. This is listen for the banjos time here.

It is wild. Let me just tell you something here. It's Reed's Spring, Missouri. Reed's is like a person. Apostrophe S? No, that's the thing. So that's what makes no sense. There's no ownership to it.

But it's after a guy. so it makes no sense whatsoever. I don't understand why they would do that. I assume it's just a poor grasp on the English language. That's all I can imagine. It's a Twitter typo. Reeds, Spring, Missouri. Southwestern, Missouri, like all the way down in the corner by Arkansas and Oklahoma in there. I call it the triangle of shit shit is what it is this triangle

it's it's the it's the devil's taint really this little area of forest and just america's weld it's yeah dude it's this is this is like people overseas or something would think about they'd see some hillbilly thing and they'd be like oh that doesn't exist in america doesn't it you know because then they'll see a sitcom and they don't see that. But this is that. Right. This is, I mean, I'm dead serious. Like somebody, whoever made Deliverance, I'm sure, went here and went, you should make

a movie about this. This is frightening. This is absolutely terrifying. It's about three hours and 50 minutes to St. Louis, about three hours and 15 minutes to Kansas City, the other side of Missouri. So it's all the way down there. So far. And about four hours to Festus, Missouri, which is our last episode.

It was about six months ago we did that episode 160, which was a wild episode. I remember it was called Trust Me, I'm a Murderer. So it was fun. I don't recall. This is in Stone County, Missouri. And this county, boy, way to hear about this. Area code 417. It's about one and a half square miles of town

it's a little tiny little tiny town here and as far as mottos go um i'm not gonna do a motto i'm just this is on the front page of their website it's better than a motto this is what they want to tell you this is right off the bat sums them up in one sentence i'm gonna let them i'm gonna let them make their pitch let's do this quote reed spring continues to stubbornly hold on to its small town feel amid the hustle and bustle of the 21st century neighbors call out to each other on the street a smile and a wave or familiar gestures along the way you are four hours from any metropolis you're not stubbornly doing anything no it's just you have no choice. No one wants to be there. That's why there's no people.

Or the secondary motto, a great place for James to lose his fucking mind, which is enough. I didn't think they knew who I was, but apparently they knew I was going to come there. I don't know. So history of this town. The name is named after Fitzhugh Reed, who settled at a spring near the original town site. First name Fitzhugh. Fitzhugh. Jesus who settled at a spring near the original town site. His first name Fitzhugh. Fitzhugh.

Jesus. And his last name's Reed, and so they said, Reed's spring, no apostrophe necessary. Fine. The, my God, the, there's a bunch of written, written, like, settlement shit here, like, written record of the settlement

starting in about 1851 when the stone county became stone county and uh it's really weird this basically it started with two kinds of people it was white people here and there was delaware indians here those are the people there and the delaware indians had come there about 1800 and uh they remained there until the, they were pushed out by the government later on. But these were, they would kind of clash a little bit in this area. You know, obviously as they,

you know, people fight over land that tends to happen here. After their evacuation in 1830, they used to return the Delaware Indians annually to hunt and fish like a certain time of year, they would come in up until 1836 because basically the white people that were there saw the party coming in to hunt and fish and misunderstood it as a military aggression and literally put out the cavalry

and started a big skirmish. It was just a fishing people with fucking fishing poles. Like, huh? What now? You got lures on their on their sack. You need a nightcrawler. What are we talking about here? Oh, Jesus.

They're shooting at us. What the? Holy shit. Fish their guns from their hands. There's not a lot you can do at that point. So it was difficult. A cane pole with like a shoe laced. Oh, shit.

Jesus Christ. Shooting at them. Just a hunk of meat at the end of it. I don't know. Maybe they'll take the bait. It's not a weapon. This is a net. It's not going to work.

So it's hard to catch bullets with things intended for salmon. Right. This doesn't work the same. So the first white settler here was a guy named James Yoakum, who was some French guy, White settler here was a guy named James Yoakum, who was some French guy, basically, who was he hung out at the junction of the White and James Rivers. And he carried on trading with the Indians and white settlers who had furs and pelts and all that sort of shit. And they'd exchange that for coffee and blankets and cloth and shoes and rifles and all that sort of shit made out of metal basically that that the white people made well there and uh and they would get all of the you know pelts and things that they needed and you know they weren't as good hunters as the indians so that's how it worked there we've been

here a little while yeah we're not good at this we don't even know how to kill that thing tell me tell me how to kill that again what's the the most effective way? Yeah, yeah. So the early people that were here were extremely religious and mostly fundamentalist, the people that would come here. So that's where this started. It started way back then, and it's just continued to now, like these kind of rural, extremely fundamentalist area. The county was named in 1851 after William Stone, who was an English pioneer and settler in Maryland there. It's a weird thing here. Divorces here were frowned upon. No matter what happened, basically, anybody who was in a divorce basically was disgraced by everybody.

No matter what happened, it didn't matter. It's just it could be whatever the circumstances. Nobody's right. Damn it. You stay married. She fucked Billy Stone. Doesn't matter. You didn't matter it's just it could be whatever the circumstances nobody's right damn it you stay married she fucked billy stone doesn't matter you doesn't matter you kill her then damn it that's a you know that's their yeah that was probably more acceptable right was to her i don't know you could kill her and then repent and then be fine but if you divorce her no we're gonna look down on you sir you know leave her healthy how dare you yeah uh they talked about this yokum guy would have like uh kind of big barbecues with like new people in the area and

uh like indians that he traded with right like a big like a little convention like hey i'm having a little get together at my house like almost like it was like a multi-level marketing thing and he was gonna try to sell them shit but he didn't have anything to sell sat there and sang pink cadillac yeah just yeah and he was like let me tell you about these dildos yeah they're like dildos yeah but if you only buy one and then you have three people below you selling for you then you're gonna make that dildo pay for itself the women they don't some women don't even do like multi-level marketing with the dildos they just sell each other dildos and they buy them. Like they just sit around together.

Some women sell dildos to get a credit to buy themselves dildos. To buy themselves more dildos. But they sit around with their friends and they're like, I like the shape of this dildo. What about this? Yeah, they're very open about that sort of thing. Our sexual desires are like this dirty thing that we have. We're like, I want this thing and I want to put it in there and i feel it like that you're not gonna tell all your friends do you want to know yeah no you know you don't you tell your friends about things you're

proud of not things you're not proud of i'm not proud that i require something weird that's made of silicone to make me come that's weird women are like i can take three of those things but one here but one here and one here and one over here i'm gonna come like a fucking banshee and their friends are like awesome i'll do that too you know sometimes i put the dildo in my mouth yeah why why i don't know it just makes me feel good all right i'll pull one in my ass one in my mouth and one and i come so hard yeah the one in the mouth is required. Whereas anything like that with guys, we're just like, I like boobs.

That's fine. I don't want to talk about it. A tit man or an ass man. Why does it have to be? For us, it's like, we're disgusted with it. That's the thing. We're not saying you should be ashamed of it. We're saying we're disgusted with it as we should be. What you're doing is beautiful. We're weirder than you.

That's the thing. We're way weir yeah just you guys think it's like dirty to play with dildos with each other no look at that that's nothing no yeah we are disgusting way more that's why we keep it to ourselves i've put my balls in a ponytail before yeah have you ever seen those let's see here it's a double ring essentially yeah one goes around the chef one goes around the balls it's fucking magical okay that's awesome are you weird about me yet james i mean i don't care we've we've talked about way worse shit than that i think we've told each other weirder stuff i think probably so i think it takes a lot for me to be disgusted by you and vice versa i feel like at this point we're i don't want to laugh with you.

I don't care. Because you realize that it's ridiculous. Yeah, well, yeah, obviously. No matter what it is, you go, can you believe this? Did you laugh at yourself? Were you like, look how silly this is? Matter of fact, I did. Okay, as long as you noticed the ridiculousness

of the situation, if then you were like, okay, now back to business, I understand. I did say the words my balls are in a ponytail okay well that's that's good i'm glad that you realize the the silliness here so back to somehow here talking about railroads yeah they go together the 1904 the white river railway was extended through the terrain this is rugged ass terrain too this is the hills here flat this is not flat this is i guess this is deliverance This is the hills here. Flat. This is not flat. This is I guess this is deliverance. This is the hills and hollers and all that shit.

Yeah. You know, little dips and dives. And so this is through Stone and Taney counties. Both of these counties were sundown towns. They weren't sundown towns. They were sundown counties. The whole fucking county. Any town inside here.

Yeah. Like, if you you look look up right now missouri sundown towns and we'll have a history of sundown towns and it'll tell you all these different towns and then it'll have stone and taney counties that are the whole fucking counties that are sundown and if you don't know what a sundown town is if you're from from this if you're from outside of the country or something a sundown town was a town where uh basically black people weren't allowed and it would say on the sign you know basically get your get out by sundown right was the fucking was the term so yeah uh and it was kind of forbidden for black people to live there or else or else right and yeah and i found lots of stuff in the newspapers back then about that sort of shit and then i found something that really framed it for me and it was this article it's from 19 oh whatever four or something when they're talking about the

railroad being put in here and the the title of this is quote picturesque picturesque austrian laborers oh boy picture listen to this picturesque austrian laborers the great majority of the laborers are austrians for whom the contractors do not provide meals but for who cook for themselves baking the bread their country baking the bread of their country in quaint high wigwam like structures of stone and clay called austrian ovens that's what they're like fawning over these austrian laborers i found one review of this town because it's a small town. And I don't know.

Five stars. They gave it. Really? Yeah. It's a quote. Don't really know. Haven't lived anywhere else. It's a decent place to live.

The cost of living is reasonable. Most jobs are seasonal. They go from March to October or November. Then they lay off everyone till the next year. Five stars. That doesn't sound like five stars right also how would you know if cost of living is reasonable that's the other thing literally have never been anywhere else yeah i guess if you're not homeless you're like cost of living

is reasonable right you know i took a trip to new york city for three days and it cost me twelve thousand dollars i don't think i could afford much more reasonable yeah it cost me four years of beaver pelt salary i stayed in a hotel once cost me eight hundred dollars for a week that's what i pay for rent each month that's that's my quarterly rent on my trailer it's a whole i pay by the quarter it's just easier otherwise i forget i couldn't make it in a hotel somewhere else nobody can no that's that's why they're so expensive fucking very population of this town it kind of hovered in the 300s for a long time, 300-something. And then it was in the 400s, and it has just shot up since 1990.

Don't know what's happening, but the population right now is 1,093, which is up 166% since 1990. They read that review. I guess so. They were like, it's reasonable. It's a five-star. Hey, honey, this guy doesn't hate it. He says says it's decent even though he's never lived anywhere else so pack the kids i guess i don't know he has zero of anything to compare it to but he digs it but he did yeah weird stats here really it's a weird town and i know it's small so the stats are skewed but it's

so weird that i'm blaming it on the town, not the stats. It's just weird. It's 58% female, which there's no rhyme or reason for that whatsoever. I don't understand it. It's wonderful for the 41% of the guys, but it's still like a weird thing. Median age is normal. That's about 37. This is a strange thing, though. There's a bunch of old, old people. And then there's a lot of kids that are 10 to 14 years old and a lot of people who are

21 to 25. So either people are having kids very old or very young here. I'm not sure which, but they're either having them when they're 75 or they're happy. They have 14 year olds and they're 21. I'm not sure which. It's probably the latter. I'm thinking the latter. Got to be just babies and babies. I'm thinking it's 22 year olds with they're 21 i'm not sure which it's probably the latter i'm thinking the latter gotta be the just babies yeah babies i'm thinking it's 22 year olds with 10 year old kids

that's has to be the that has to be what it is that's all i can think of uh married populations way higher than normal normal 50 50 it's 64 percent here way off on that when you're that young you got it and you have babies you got to get married i get the divorce rates low i guess it's still frowned upon, apparently. I'm not sure how that fucking works, but it seems to be the way it works. Yeah, race of this town, 86% white, 0.0% black. No black people at all. No, no.

1.4% Asian, which seems like a strange place to, I don't know. If you're ethnic of any kind would you go here no i wouldn't go here no i've seen my cousin vinnie i'm not going here you know what i mean it used to be a sundown town yeah it used to be man still could be well and the thing is i don't know why it's not welcoming clearly right and the thing is like if you've if this is going to sound weird but if you're from up north and you're either like Italian or Jewish or something, noticeably not what they have down there. Right. And you go down south.

They'd hate you worse than they hate black people. I know that's weird to say. You're trying to assimilate with. Oh, no, no, no. It's they'll look at a racist white guy. He'll look at a black guy and go fucking people, fucking Yankees up there and then they'll both agree on it that they both hate you it's weird as shit like that's the only thing they can all agree on down there is they hate a guinea yankee oh boy do they hate a guinea yankee i can't tell you how many times in the one month

i spent in north carolina i heard the words ain't from around here are you you think that's a cliche literal human being said you ain't from around here are are you? You think that's a cliche? Literal human being said, you ain't from around here, are you? And I was like, I don't want to be from around here. Which one's more insulting, that or... No, I'm happy. I was like, goddamn right I'm not from around here. This is why I'm bad, because I was going to get killed eventually by somebody, a group of people in a truck, I assume.

But I was like, no fucking way am I from around here. What gave it away? I was sarcastic about it after three weeks yeah gee what gave it away i have all my fucking teeth or the fact that you know my muffler isn't dragging behind my fucking truck which one we're in a town with a population of i don't know seven and somebody asking you for directions and you're like yeah how dare you dare you i have no confederate flag clothing on is that the problem so uh yeah that was that texas guy how dare he asked me for directions kidding me do i look like how dare you you assumed it you assume i'm i know my way around here really i was in the passenger seat man i don I don't know shit. You're wearing a NASCAR hat. Not you.

The guy. If anyone knows his way around here, it's you. It's not me. I'm wearing a Yankees hat and a fucking Nas t-shirt. What would make you think I know my way around here? Honestly. And one person in this conversation needs directions. It's me.

Stop asking me. And I admit it if you're like from the south or whatever i am i'm a northeasterner so i don't that's how i grew up that's how i i don't know like i'm sorry i don't know what to tell you don't talk to me i don't know the culture as well yeah that's the other thing let me fuck alone we're outside of a fucking store what are you talking to me for that's what this town's a nightmare friendly way what do i know you because if someone smiled and waved i'd turn and go what i'd say what do you want are you trying to get my attention like something my teeth if i know

somebody they wave you wave back but if i don't know them i go what what's your fucking problem what do you want check out your shoes make sure there's not toilet paper on them just being friendly so you bother me that's friendly to youissing me off by bothering me? You're taking my time. Yeah, that's not friendly. That's not nice. So two or more races is 10.6% of this town, which I don't know how that works exactly. And 1.7% Hispanic. So this town is a fucking Rubik's Cube.

I can't figure it out. It's interesting. Religion here, you would think it would be extremely religious. 28% are religious, which is like almost it's like half the average they abandon it they do and it's and it's spread out too the there's mostly baptists they're not gonna lie baptists are the catholics of the south but 5.1 catholic too is weird there are 14 baptists 0.0 jewish there's no no no 0.0% Muslim. The county itself politically is pretty conservative. Last election, 17% voted Democrat here in Stone County, 79% Republican.

Unemployment rate, who knows right now. But household income, median household income, normally it's about $57,500. In the rest of the country here, it is $37,500. That's not a lot. It's not great not great 20 of the jobs are in food services those are those seasonal jobs that we're talking about because there are like lakes and outdoor shit where people come for recreation right in the summer it's usually about seven percent and here it's you know 20 so a lot of people making a little bit of money seasonally and And median cost of living here, 100 is regular. Here is 87.

So the housing is not that great either. It's 82. So median home cost here is $189,300. You can't do it. With a $37,000 median household income. I don't know how you make that work. That's stretching a dollar, man. That is coupon.

If you'd like to stretch your dollar and practice your banjo skills, we have for you the Reed Spring, Missouri Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here is about $730 a month, which, I don't know, that still seems like it's too much, even though it's under the average mathematically. I don't want to pay $730. $40 grand a year, you can afford that. You can afford that. So I found some things here. It's mostly open lots. There's not a lot of houses for sale.

People tend to just stay here. I found a one-acre lot, just kind of acre of trees and clearing for a house. $15,500. Very affordable. So it's affordable. If you got some decent camping equipment, you can make a go of it here. What do you say? It's the money you can build on that. Yeah, you can build it.

I found a 160 acre lot, which is a lot of trees and hills. It's 160 acres, so it's a lot of land. $475,000 for this, though. Apparently, there's some water on it, too, and shit. So that makes it nice. Then I found this is weird. It's on Main Street. It's a storefront, but it's a house.

It's weird. You live above it? No, you live behind it. It's a two-bedroom, one-bath, 1,700-square-foot home that also includes two storefronts. Awesome. Yeah, it's got two storefronts and next to the two stores is an antique shop that's open and it's uh on main street 165 900 bucks that sounds great it sounds amazing it's all brick and shit it's like old school on main street

looks cool right you can open a bike shop yeah yeah something i don't know you can open something that attracts i don't know if a bike shop's going to do it. I'm sure that business would boom there like a store. Yeah, like a barbecue accoutrement store. You sell like, you know, pokers and brushes and smokers and shit maybe. That's brilliant. You can do something there. I don't know.

I doubt there's a Home Depot around here. There's probably one next door. I'm sure. It's next to the antique shop. It sells antique smokers. That's all the antique shop sells antique antique smokers that's all the that's all the antique shop smell sells antique barbecue equipment sit there things to do this is frightening just the name of this the reed spring heritage festival no started in 1906 oh no i don't want to deal with that heritage we know what that heritage is that was the sun downtown then oh Oh, yeah. So, uh-oh.

Schedule events here. The Reed Spring High School Marching Band, which I assume consists of four kids, maybe. I mean, a thousand people. What is there, a hundred kids in school? Right. Twenty-five in the high school? Twenty? How many of them are musically inclined?

Four? There's four kids in this band. They're trying to play Louie Louie. It's just... They only have like two things in a symbol they don't have any they gotta skip the parts that they don't have yeah that's they gotta do it we don't have horns hold on okay so we don't have the horn part sorry we have drums uh the i rock you studio recital like i rock the letter u right uh the little miss reed spring competition is at 10 30 a.m the zen gym tumblers come after that then at 11 the church band jamboree comes out jesus

jimmy you think this day couldn't get any worse right now well guess what 2 to 4 p.m open mic so if it couldn't get any worse let's get an open mic with the open mic with an open mic think about that closing this out is hate breed and uh ted nugent it's good you know the new just there he's the only one he's gonna lead a hunting party afterwards when i finish my set everybody grabs your crossbow and follow me let's go this one's called stranglehold we're hunting black i mean deer we're hunting deer so uh also the rock house music festival which they claim they'll be uh beer furnished by mother's brewing company and a variety of food vendors and all sorts of horse shit bring your own lawn chairs

and sunscreen everybody ticket price is 30 at the gate for this this is the worst festival ever and overpriced it's way overpriced the musical lineup though andy hout uh signal ridge national park radio that's where they just put the cv on listen yeah there it is oh did you hear that there's a poacher hold on let's see how this works out uh the creek rocks oh okay kyle reed in the low swinging chariots it's just a bunch of old dudes swinging their pants off they sing two songs a couple religious hymns and shit with their pants off. Long balls. Low swinging terrier. And their dance is just a sway back and forth. It's fucking mesmerizing. Hypnotizes the audience.

Hypnotizes them. Once in a while, one goes one way, and it's like those balls guys keep on the table at work. They just do it that way. They're nut sacks. Violet and the Undercurrents, and Randall Shreve and the DeVilles. So there's that. Special guest, Joanne McMillan's Flying Heart Puppet Theater. Violet and the Undercurrents, and Randall Shreve and the DeVilles.

So there's that. Special guest, Joanne McMillan's Flying Heart Puppet Theater. I thought you were going to say Joanne McMillan's nephew. He's going to be at the open, Mike. And then you come here. Holy shit. So there's descriptions, but we don't have time. It sounds terrible.

That sounds terrible, everybody. Not good. I don't want to fucking go there so i'm trying so hard to like this town and everything is it's not just fuck you yeah it's not good it's it's really not you really have to i think grow up in this town to like this town or to want to be here i get it too just walk around and be fascinated right wow local pride or utter confusion yeah Yeah. One of the two. That's pretty much what most towns give you. That's why the show. I don't get it when people get offended when we make fun of towns.

It's like every single town in America is like that. If you're not from there, if you just pull off the interstate to the place, you go, what the fuck? People live here. Right. Every town. Why is there an oversized? The one you're from, the one I'm from, the one you're from.

All of us. Don't be so sensitive. Sedona's beautiful. It's an amazing town. And you go through it, and there's an enormous chicken made of fucking steel on the side of the road. Ridiculous. It's for sale. Yeah.

Why is that there? Why? Why is that there? Who's going to buy that? Why'd they paint it turquoise like everything else? So crime rate in this town, what we're interested in, it's low. It's not a lot of people that steal or kill. Property crime here is about one-third under the national average that's not bad and then violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime is about

two-thirds under the national average very safe it's like one-third you know as violent as the rest of the country that said let's talk about a horrifically violent murder all right it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people with a touch of humor i'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called malevolent deity that is. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine

and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister

than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Let's do it. Okay. Now, this, oh my God. First of all, there will be, I'll tell you right now, we've had like the dog finding a leg. We had cats finding a torso. There will be no like pet otter named Billy that finds a human hand this week. I promise you that.

God damn it. I can't, I know. I would have loved to keep. My favorite part. People thought I was looking for shit with, I'm like, I'm not looking for, just happened to be a weird coincidence that I, this story in the middle of it. I'm like, wait, the cats found the boat the fuck is happening a pack of wild feral cats just eating a body just eating a torso uh this is a little bit different here now

right away i have to credit a couple of uh couple just a few little segments that came from a book that i'd like to credit called almost midnight by michael w cuneo uh just gave some good background on a couple of these people, so that's pretty much all we used out of it. But still, you give credit where credit's due. Now, let's talk about a couple of people first off. First off, here's a guy named Lloyd Lawrence, double L. And Lloyd is a double L name, so that's really triple L.

He's pushing it, honestly. So it's better than, I guess, being Carl Karns, spelled like that, but still. His wife is named Frankie Lawrence. And Frankie's, I like a guy's name used as a girl's name for some reason. Yeah, my dog, female dog is named Frankie. I dig that. Yeah, that's cool. Charlie or, I don't know.

I think that's cool. Charlie's a good one. Nikki's a good one. Nikki don't know i think that's cool charlie's a good one uh nicky nicky's a good one nicky goes either way either way nicky goes either way he's great nicky is a either like a cool chick with like a couple tattoos that you can't see yeah or one of my guinea cousins from pennsylvania because i have like four of them named nicky right yeah i have cousins that are brothers named nicky and vinny. I'm not kidding. It's very bad. But Terry's weird. But Terry, super strange.

That's a tough one. Yeah, Terry is not good for a man or a woman, I don't think, or anybody, really. Terry is just terrible for anything. No one wants to be named Terry. With an I, with a Y, fuck Terry. That was my go-to for prank phone calls. I was always Terry. Terry?

That's true, because no one would name himself terry that's why if you call up and say this is thor they know you're full of shit but if you say i am terry they're like it's got to be terry it's got to be telling the truth yeah otherwise i'm surprised he didn't lie and say something else he's on the phone i didn't know it wasn't terry terry could have got away with one here you could have not been terry for once in his fucking life so uh lloyd law Lawrence and his wife Frankie Lawrence, we'll catch up with them in the 80s here.

Late 80s, they're in their 50s or they're, oh I'm sorry in their late, in their 60s. They were married in 1947. Sweet Jesus. So yeah, they've been married a while. They're I think 67 and 68 years old at this moment in time in the late 80s. They're both heavyset people.

Frankie's a real kind of gregarious lady. She's a real friendly, outgoing kind of lady. Happy-go-lucky. Lloyd is a character. Let's just say that. They've been married 40 years at this point, so they're definitely a couple. And they've been successful in business in in this town not even not in this town in other places this they're they have like a kind of a

one of their properties is here so they come here sometimes they also come here because this place is part of lloyd's meth empire lloyd is like now i haven't seen breaking bad breaking bad's one of those shows that's great i hear it's great and i want to watch it in its entirety and i've always been like well i have to start it but i don't want to start it right now so i have to see it eventually but i know the general premise of the guy and he's sick and you know walter white is sick and he's just so enough yeah so now i haven't seen it to know the setup but I assume that just based on how dramatic things work and how you write scripts that there is already a meth dealer there that he has to contend with who's then mad at him for whatever okay the other nice part about the movie or who's

the bad guy right yeah the other nice part about it is that Walter White is very unassuming you would not you would look at the guy and never suspect meth dealer. Well, yeah, because he was a teacher. I know that much. He's a teacher. He's a mild-mannered guy. He's a straight guy his whole life, right? And then he just has cancer, and he's like, well, fuck it.

I can't afford to fight it. The only way I can afford to treat this is through illegal means. Talk about America in a nutshell. I haven't seen it, and i already know that he's fucking good at his health insurance sucks and everyone wants meth okay great that's america yeah it might as well be a flag so the okay now health insurance sucks and everybody loves math exclamation point stars and stripes behind it so that's our battle flag. So now these two here, what I'm saying is I've never seen it, but I assume there was like a guy who Walter White had to like, you know, not try not to get killed by. He was already entrenched and all that.

Whoever that guy is, that's Lloyd Lawrence. Whoever the bad guy is. Yeah. Fucking intense. He's a yeah, he's he's a heavy hitter he is the king of he's the king of rural missouri meth at this time he's he's a known as kind of a 60s kind of a he's been doing it for a while too he's been cooking it up and he has because he's basically he they replaced moonshine stills in the backwoods with fucking meth sheds that's all they did literally they

were like well switch that over it was you know like a factory reconditioning that doesn't make any more money what does and that's what we're gonna make nobody wants to buy a ford let's make respirators or whatever the fuck it is that's what he did you know a lot of these rednecks did this but down there these hillbillies actually to be more specific they are hillbillies. So, yeah, they did that. Basically, how he got into this is this is the type of guy he is. So he's an onion, this guy. How he got into his meth dealing was because he was the southern Missouri, rural Missouri, cock fighting, dog fighting empresario.

Sweet Jesus. Are you going to make him endearing at all? He's a piece of shit. He was the guy who would like set up the cockfight. He'd be like the guy, like a fat guy with a cigar sitting there like taking bets from people like that's him. He's setting up and then he figured out at all

of these, you know, because it's like a late night thing of an all night cockfight. People there like meth. If you're into cockfighting and dirty all-night things that happen in the woods maybe some crank will do you good i guess so he figured that out he's like well while they're here it's almost like a concession like he figured out like they probably want like hot dogs i could probably sell them beer some pretzels and they all want meth yeah fuck yeah so he decided based on that to start making meth and then it just ballooned. Wow.

Because, you know, meth has never- Pretty soon that makes more money than cockfighting, and you just stop that shit. Yeah. Why would you cockfight? Right. You know, it's harder to cockfight. You've got to arrange a big thing. You've got to get your cock out.

You've got to get cocks. And then dogfighting, too. Right. So it's, yeah. God, what an empire. What a weird empire. I can't imagine being involved in that. I can't- It's fucking- As somebody with a fucking heart for animals. It's so weird. That's yeah. God, what an empire. What a weird empire. I can't imagine being involved in that. I get somebody with a fucking heart for it.

So weird. Crazy. And it's there's little pockets of culture that are into like dog fighting. It's mainly down south. And it's little where it's like it's such a ingrained cultural thing that you're like, that's cockfighting, dogfighting. It's just very weird. I've tripped over my dog.

He let out a howl that I was like, oh, my God, what I do i do it's not good at all it's horrible and they're letting them fucking murder each other it's crazy oh they're fucking forcing them to murder each other never mind letting so they're making um so also he all the all the bars then he kind of filled with meth so basically if you bought meth in the 80s in the oz. You bought his meth. He was the king of meth here. And it was undisputed. Nobody fucked with him. There was no Walter White. Nobody that he had to worry about.

He was the fucking man. So, yeah, he did everything in the hills, back tucked away in the hollers in the hills. Nobody goes back there. There's no fucking cops investigating the fucking hills. People shoot at government people back there. Literally, who's investigating the fucking hills people shoot it government people back there literally who's that a census man take a shot at him it's like the front of the old mountain dew bottle it's fucking weird down there at this time so whatever you do back in them hollers is your fucking business pretty much down there so if you want to make meth they

they do that um there was a few cops that know, kind of people that look out for this type of shit like they did with moonshiners back in the day, but it's not really. Those are like actual cowboys. Yeah. Rebels. Yeah. I'm a county marshal. Right.

Lieutenant isn't telling them to do that. They're just doing it on their personal. I suppose. I don't know. They're doing it. They're just casually strolling by a cockfight at night and they there's a lot of meth around here so uh yeah lawrence lloyd was the most prominent cockfighting promoter there and he became in the became involved in the meth business and uh he would

also he became this is he figured out a trick during the cock fights also this this is another reason he got involved in meth that if you uh feed if you feed meth to an animal feed meth to a rooster that rooster fights harder than the other rooster i almost asked you a few minutes ago were they giving it to the birds yeah he gave it to the birds wow so the chickens were so fucking you know into it and so that's kind of how he got started into meth he was making it to jack his birds up making small batches got him gacked up that's how he yeah wow that's how he started making his first batches was literally just as bird fuel yeah to fight each yeah some sort of crazy bird pcp and then from there he was like people want this shit too I could just make more I am grossed

out yeah like someone he's like given his bird meth and someone was like got any extra of that for me is that just a specific bird formula I imagine he did it with like an eyedropper into their mouth right somehow I don't know I think he just jammed it probably had like a fucking rock of it and just jammed it into his mouth, closed its beak and shut it. He'll swallow it eventually. You give him about 15 minutes, he'll be pecking his little balls off. Let me tell you what.

Hide it in the bird's seat? I'll tell you what, yeah. Hide it in the sunflower seat? Yeah, yeah. Do like Kenny versus Spenny with the goat. What? He put Red Bull in the goats. They were tied to goats.

That was the bet who could were tied to goats. Yeah. That was the bet who could be tied to a goat longest, so. How were they tied to them? They had a rope that was tied to the goat's collar and it was tied

to their ankle. Okay, got it. It was tied to their ankle, so the goats are dragging them around and shit. So the goats are stronger than these idiots. Yeah.

So Kenny was fucking with Spenny's goat to make him hyper. He went in and he put, like, he replaced its water with Red Bull and then he went in and he put like uh he replaced its water with red bull and then he put a bunch of like espresso grounds mixed in with the dog with the goat's food and like 15 minutes later this goat was like about like jetting back and forth

and like stopping and like looking around like like all paranoid and then running again and like dragging him by the foot yeah he's going jesus what the fuck stop please and kenny's going what'd you do to your coat dude what'd you do to him did you touch him did you touch him you make trying to get away from you yeah what are you doing to him put his balls in a pony i bet you put his ball balls in a ponytail didn't you spend a fucking weirdo so uh yeah so he's a big deal in the missouri meth business here uh he's a badass um not a known as a nice guy lawrence lloyd uh there are rumors and i don't know if this is true or not i'm not gonna fucking say this is true obviously because we have no idea of knowing but uh the fact that a rumor like this would spread and nobody would think it was ridiculous means you're not a good

guy probably smoke there's fire uh yeah well not just your people went like well that makes sense yeah he's a bad guy so i mean shit i've seen him do worse than that so it might be true is there's alleged to have raped his own daughters even like that kind of guy but we don't know if that's true did you say plural plural oh yeah obviously i mean jeez. Yeah, obviously. I mean, I'll stop at one. Yeah. He doesn't have a favorite. Oh, my. Yeah, he's disgusting. So, anyway, also have a lot of people have been beaten and all everything over the meth business, which, I mean, that's all in the game. And if you're getting involved in the rural Missouri meth business, you can expect to

get a little dirty from now on, time to time. If you're getting meth without the express consent of giving money for that, that's usually the only time they get. That's the thing. It's really it's all in the game. It's generally you give me all money for meth. That's what it is for the most part. Yeah. You owe money or you did something fucked up or you're trying to push in on his territory or something.

You know, if you know this guy has got the territory and you're going to push in it let's do so at your own risk straight rules is what i'm getting at yeah so he also dabbles in other shit he does a little like you know gambling and loan sharking he's got his own little mafia syndicate going on except with cockfighting mixed in um now he's his oldest son has a child that he takes a liking to. Oh? Yeah. By the mid-'80s here. Lloyd takes a liking to him. Lloyd likes him, yeah.

He takes him under his wing. He tries to protect him. His grandson. His grandson it is, yeah. So this is by the mid-'80s. Well, we'll put it this way. His name is Willie, the grandson. By 1986, Willie is in a car accident and is willie the grandson yeah by 1986 willie is uh in a car

accident and is paralyzed from the waist down oh no so he's a paraplegic uh you know in a wheelchair so he's bound to a wheelchair here so and that helps also and he's always been lloyd's favorite but then after that lloyd really he's always taking care of him. And, you know, there is a special relationship with Willie, basically. So by the time 1987, 1988, Willie's 18 years old. Everybody says he's a good looking kid and everything else and had a pretty bright kid and a bright future. And then he's paralyzed and it kind of bums him out a little bit also. And since then, he's had a lot of problems in the couple years since from 86 to 88 few problems he suffered burns to his feet at one point from uh he was

messing around uh in this old car with his friends and there was a the muffler got too hot under the floor or something and he couldn't move he couldn't feel it oh and his feet got badly burned because he couldn't feel them because he's a paraplegic so that was a tough thing so he was really yeah just having a hard time with shit like that getting used to the the whole thing uh but in the late 80s here 88 they found a way for him to have some fun and be able to get around on his own because otherwise he's just in this wheelchair and he's really fucking bummed out about it as i don't blame him he's a teenage kid that was running around one second and not the next so quadriplegic or paraplegic so he's got his hands he's got his arms but he has no legs

all right so he's got something well yeah what they do is they get a four-wheeler for him oh yeah and they give so he can go all around the retrof it for his hand control. No, no. This is Jimmy. Where are we? Did they do? Hold on a second. Do you think? Let's go. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

I want to before you take any guesses. I want to know what was going through your head. Did you picture him like loading this four wheeler onto a trailer and like driving it to a place that like a mechanic has where they retrofitted? That's what you pictured. Because he's got money for meth. Yeah, but it doesn't matter, Jimmy. He's your favorite.

This is the back hills of... You know what they did, Jimmy? You know what they did? They tied his feet to the handlebars with shoelaces. What? That's what they did. They tied this poor fucking kid's... They secured him to the vehicle by tying the shoelaces

of his sneakers to the front rack oh james that's above the wheels so there's a four-wheel drive if it's a four-wheel drive four-wheeler on the front there's a rack where you can like load fireworks or a fucking body of a car on the front that so his feet are up on the fender yeah they laced his shoes to the rack they just tied his shoes to the rack and then he's moving around with his arms and he can steer how crazy is this the problem is the brakes are down where your feet that's an issue but he figures it out so i i mean think about this though holy shit think about seeing this fly by on a dirt road what the fuck is that did you see hey are you all right did someone do that to you

against your will no you're happy okay fuck i feel terrible for this kid and he loves it though so i mean hey good for him but they could have done something better for him than this some hand controls and they're like he wants to get around does he hmm yeah it sucks being that wheelchair that's right and even the motor don't go very fast especially on that dirt 88 yeah they just saw weekend at bernie on that dirt in the boat they just tied him back there i mean tell you what you got how's your just ties shoelaces on him. No, right on his sneakers. Just take the bow and just instead just tie it right around that rack. I'm just hanging up there. Same thing.

Otherwise, they're just going to fly behind you and just drag in the dirt. You don't want that, do you? He's going to Superman it. Wow. Hillbilly ingenuity at its fucking finest here. Holy shit, dude. Tied his feet to the full drive rack. I've never heard of that before, ever.

So, have you? This is insanity. And you know redneckery. I've seen four-wheels. I've seen people do wild shit on them. Nothing like that. Never. Never.

So, it seems dangerous, too. Like, if he fell off, he'd be hanging off by his shoelaces, right? Yeah. If you fall off, you are dangling by your. Yeah, that's not good. Pray to Christ your feet come out of those shoes. I don't know. There's a reason why this and snowboarding, the bindings pop when something happens.

So it doesn't twist you because you're stuck on something. Snap your fucking ankles. In skateboarding, when something's going wrong, you bail. Right. Because you're not attached to the board. You can't bail this way. No, this is crazy. my god anyway so lawrence you know he plays a little close to the edge here we'll just say fast and loose with the fucking he is not selling math

safety fifth let's go feeding meth to fucking fighting roosters doing all sorts of shit threatening people tying his paraplegic grandson's feet to the rack of a four-wheeler and sending him on his way. Well, the problem is that he's been successful in things, so let's see how this works is a life slogan for him. And it works. Yeah. And it works for him.

Everything works. Let's see how this works. My bank account got bigger. It's in. It works. Constantly. So what are you going to do? So 1987, Lawrence meets somebody here.

He meets a young man. Not young. He's about 40 at this time. Named Daryl Meese is his name. M-E-A-S-E. Meese. Plural of Moose. Plural of Moose, as John Candy would say.

So that was from that, right? I think so. Yeah, okay. So he's a Vietnam vet with a meth problem, which those two things go together not well. You don't want that. That's oil and water right there. If you're a meth dealer, that's the guy you need. He's got some PTSD.

He's got some lingering issues from Vietnam in addition to a meth problem. Two ex-wives and five kids ages 2 to 18 at this point in time when they meet. I have a meth problem, too. kids ages 2 to 18 at this point in time when they meet. I have a meth problem too. Yeah, he's running the full kind of backwoods gamut of I fucked my life up here basically. Not Vietnam

because he got drafted. Not that I wouldn't say like, oh, somebody's fault, but I mean, he didn't volunteer for it or anything like that. It's 1966, he got drafted. Now, he grew up in this area. This is where he's from. Really? Yeah, they're not. The Lawrences grew up in this area. This is where he's from. Yeah, they're not. The Lawrences are not from here, but he is from this area.

He is born and raised backwoods holler hill boy. He grew up here. He said when he was a kid, everybody said he was a real nice kid. Daryl, a very nice kid, decent. He was an outdoor kid. One of these kids, like all of them were in this time. We're talking in the late 50s. Think about late 50s in the middle of nowhere.

We'll talk about it. At one point, we'll talk about when they used to go to their aunt's house because they'd take their donkey over to the aunt's house because she had, quote, the only tv in the holler so you know what i mean like everyone will go there to see the tv when something was on and when he was i don't know what the fuck was on in 1950 fucking nine but something so anyway he uh you know like to hunt like to fish like to explore caves and all that kind of shit. Was very much into church, as we'll talk about. Very much into church.

Now, in this book, there is an interesting quote here. Very interesting quote that I wanted to pass along here. Quote, local Ozarks kids came by their knowledge of outlaw culture honestly. It was a part of their lived experience. The region was steeped not only in piety but also in criminality the preacher and the outlaw stood side by side in the local ozarks mythology the one proclaiming repentance and eternal glory and the other vengeance and going for broke both promising relief from grievances real and imagined ancient and new that describes this area a lot yeah it really is true these they feel like we're god-fearing

pious people so when we break the law it's because we have to right and that's what we have to do like they feel like that yet they don't like other people who are in shit situations that do that it's a weird all right it's a weird hillbilly uh dichomy they have, but whatever. If a country boy can survive, James. It's strange. So he started out, Daryl, hunting with a BB gun when he was six, going out and hunting BBs, which sounds like fun. Well. Not hunting, but having a BB gun at six.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. We were watching Mad Men a while back, and they're having a party at their house there, and this kid comes over with somebody. And family comes over. And there's a little boy there who's nine or something. And Don looks at him and he goes, hey, why don't you go up back with the other kids? I'm sure there's some peanut butter sandwiches and a BB gun to play with. Get on out of here.

Literally, a little tussle of his hair and sends him on his way. Get the fuck out of here while we drink scotch. And just sends him to go shoot things and eat peanut butter and i'm like great that sounds awesome well i mean a red rider isn't all that dangerous it can fucking hurt people for sure yeah especially the way we were a nightmare oh that's what you would pump those until you pump them 25 times they would go fucking five inches into a tree like those things were with a pellet those not a bb with the pellet ones holy shit i'm going to kill somebody and it'll stay in and go on a skull if you pump it up 25 times those are fucking dangerous yeah but this is i mean being a kid though to say like you go run around play with a bb gun you'd be like

fuck yeah i'm just gonna shoot trees and you know set up targets and shit i don't know whatever you do when you're six when you've seen cowboys and stuff. And cans and stuff. Especially back then. This was all that's on TV is cowboys back then. Finally, though, he started out with a BB gun, and then when he was about 10, he turned it into a single-shot.22,

which he made his own money picking walnuts when he was nine, and he saved up walnut money to buy a.22 rifle. Okay, I thought you were saying he converted a BB gun into a.22. No, no, no. I was like, what the, how the fuck do you even do that? And then he tied a paraplegic's shoestring to a steering wheel and taught him how to drive. No, that's not what happened. His dad can convert a BB gun into a.22, but he can't give this guy a hand.

Exactly. At nine, though, he started a walnut picking business to get enough money to buy a.22. So he really wants to shoot things, apparently. So he'd go into the woods, they said, for hours at a time. He had a little mixed breed terrier named bull junk and iron which is a terrible name for a dog that's a name that's a name what do you i guess you just call him bull it's not two no that's one dog bull junk and iron that's very unwieldy junk bull junk and iron what is that i beats the shit out of me i don't know if it's like a 50s newspaper fucking funny page reference or

something i have no clue but it's makes no sense i don't trust him to name anything but that way if when he has children in the future i hope his wives name them right because he's bad at shit so they said he'd go into the woods at 10 years old with a gun and a dog for hours and they just let him go in there and you know have fun so uh he he learned how to i don't know what this is, bark squirrels. Does that mean to take bark off them, like skin them? Or does that mean to call them? I imagine it's call them.

Okay. And then you pop them. And then you bark them. After that, you feel it, right? I don't know what the fuck it is. Or maybe him and Bull Junk taught squirrels how to bark, and then they had their own secret language. Oh, you know what? I think that's what it was. I don't know what happens in the backwoods so i'm gonna trust you

bark spark squirrels i imagine it's like gigging frogs i think so like or uh noodle and catfish or some shit something like that some southern weird pill term or fucking cheap it's the same thing it's all there so he'd also hunt groundhogs rabbits foxes possum raccoon and quail yeah and he'd bring it home and his mom would cook it for dinner he would shoot a quail with a single shot 22 that's impressive oh wait till you hear how impressive a shot he is uh they said that they ate a lot of groundhog burgers when he was a kid because he shot so many groundhogs because there was a lot around there and i think they was a kid because he shot so many groundhogs. That's gross. There was a lot around there, and I think they're probably easy to shoot.

They don't look very spry. Nimble. They don't look too nimble. Like a quail, those things are like lightning. They fucking bolt. They fly. A groundhog looks like it's just a fat fuck. It comes out, looks around all fat and lazy.

And goes back inside. And goes back to sleep. You should probably just shoot it while it's sleeping. Right. You don't even have to do anything. and goes back inside. He goes back to sleep. He's probably just shoot it while it's sleeping.

Right. You don't even have to do anything. He's got quite the, I don't know, fucking selection of animals. Yeah. He just lives in the woods

and hangs out in the woods all the time. Pretty much anything that's small and moves, he'll kill it. And furry, he'll kill it and his mom will cook it and he'll eat it.

Something adorable, he'll eat it. Oh, yeah. He'll go, isn't it cute? Sure is. I'm going to shoot it right in the face.

So there's a story about one time where he and a friend were walking their he and his brother were walking their donkey to their aunt's house who had quote the only tv in the holler there so at one time they went um and while they walking down the road, the donkey got pissy and knocked the cart over. So they were trying to pick it up. And we're talking about, I mean, they're probably barefoot overall wear. And, you know, they look like Tuck Finn. These kids. This is a Mark Twain book. It's literally a Mark Twain book.

And people who were passing through in cars stopped and said, oh, look at the little hillbillies. Isn't this adorable? And started taking pictures of them so by after a while four or five cars stopped taking pictures of the hillbillies and they were like you know pose with the donkey and like you know this is gonna be great no one's gonna believe this this this is hilarious this is real holy shit like even notice we entered a zoo this is crazy this is a zoo so they uh yeah they did all of this and people started like throwing them change oh like because they thought i'm a little hillbilly urchin so they were like yeah it snapped a few shots and tossed a dime

at them yeah so they said they got at one point to their aunt's house and they had 50 cents which isn't too bad for 19 you know 58 or. That's not a bad haul there. That's a down payment on a house. That's it, yeah. You could probably buy half a hauler for that, I think. Now, when he's four years old, this is when he's really cemented in religion, his mom starts taking him to the Reed Spring Free Pentecostal Church,

which I'm sure is a very forgiving, loving place where they never talk about revenge or anger or say anything wild. It was not horrifying at all. A backwoods Pentecostal church. Imagine how scary that would be for a child. I mean, nothing's more frightening for a child than like an old school Catholic church. Nothing. Nothing's more frightening than the lights and the smoke and the fucking Latin chanting.

That's frightening. In the fucking goth robes. Yeah, because you didn't even know what they were saying they could have been saying then we sacrifice the children we shall cut their faces off we had no idea i guess whereas they knew that they were talking about crazy hellfire shit so it's scary damnation and burn for eternity those words were said oh Oh, you know it very often. The church was housed in a former feed store just off Main Street, probably near somewhere near the storefront you can buy nowadays and live behind. Might be the same place for all we know here. Right next to the garment factory where his dad worked.

So, yeah, which was. factory where uh his dad worked so yeah which was um yeah she took the him to services on sundays and wednesdays and he was into it he was into church at the time he liked it actually he thought it was a it they said it kind of uh just kind of took his whole imagination he looked at it almost like mythology but he believed it and all that but he looked he was as interested in it as people are in like mythology stories and stuff he thought he was interested in it he also liked the shouting and singing and the you know shit he liked people speaking in tongues he thought that shit was cool which yeah no i'm i'm not even frightened by that i'm just i just i don't want to get into it because people get mad at me when i say shit about religion. But the speaking in tongues, I'm like, come on, come on.

Even Stevie was like, come on. Yeah. You know, they tried to tell him, just just go with it. They're like, just do it. Just just just do it. And he was like, well, I'm just not feeling like it doesn't fucking matter. Just go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Who cares?

Just fucking say it. This is everyone's looking. That's that's what I was like. OK, this is, you know, so i get that you're feeling it that's fine you want to feel do what you want but yeah not everybody's actually feeling it force somebody to feel it yeah or else you're you're out you know that's where you're you know ostracized or not ostracized but you're not accepted yeah so he liked it though he looked forward to the to the everything there the revivals and all that kind of shit um it was at the age of 10 that he was born again into the pentecostal church there and uh

jesus at 10 and he's born again that's when you just that's when they you like join the church officially at that point there so uh he took it very serious he was super into it his mom was very proud of him. They like to. She noticed that one time. Okay, here's an example that him and his brother would have and their cousins would have spear fights by. Listen to this line. They like to have spear fights by Shacktown next to the old cannery. There's an old cannery where the workers had these little like makeshift shacks that they lived in.

That was all closed down and decrepit. That shack town that's shack town and the kids use that as their own personal like little war zone i guess some abandoned shanty village yeah so they get dried out horse weeds six or seven feet long and throw them at each other trying to score direct hits which is really nothing because we used to throw our shit at that. Is grass weed, is it a stick? Is it firm or does it like snap when it hits you? I don't know. I hope it's not fucking life threatening. Well, one time when I was a teenager, we found some woods and we were in these woods and my friend built a fire. Yeah.

And he took this big long stick. It was probably six feet long. Yeah. And it was thick. It was a good size stick. It was like a. Inch like a inch round you know yeah like the handle of a baseball bat basically james you know like a good and just sitting there over the course of two hours he was just like like putting it in the coals of the fire and like twisting it around he's burn sharpening and he made this the most pointy red. It was like four inches of straight burning red coal in an exact point that could fucking pierce a wall.

Right. So then another one of my friends starts, two of them start coming into. We're in the woods. Hey, blah, blah, blah. So my friend who was sharpening the stick stands up, turns toward them, and just hurls it like a javelin thrower. And they are 30 yards away. This kid is the worst athlete I've ever seen that threw this javelin. We played baseball.

He couldn't throw it to you. He threw this fucking stick. We watched it sail through the air like a fucking tracer in the Iraq War. Because you could just see that red coal tracing through the air. My friend on the other side didn't see it. It hit him right in the Iraq war because you could just see that red coal tracing through the air my friend on the other side didn't see it it hit him right in the chest direct hit to his chest he screamed ow my nipple

which is the funniest line I've ever heard in my life and sparks exploded like fireworks the whole head of the thing exploded into sparks and he's getting you know fire out of his hair it's in his hair and fucking these shirts on fire and we laughed for about a half hour even he laughed about it the one who was hitting the chest but if he wasn't pretty funny it's pretty fucking cool

oh he had a huge like burn and a welt it was horrific it was horrific he was hurt definitely but that's what boys do to each other is what i'm getting at so i wonder if hey was it hay straw what was it that he threw a horseweed i want to know how thick i want to know how to bark a squirrel and i don't want to know what the fuck a horseweed is these are the two things i'm interested in or is it barking the school is it like gentle like burping a baby do you like pick up the infant and then it infant squirrels. Go on, little fella. That's good. Then you pick it. Hey, buddy.

Hey, buddy. You see one. He looks just kind of. He looks like he's got. Yeah. Pick him up. And then you barked him. Yeah.

It's feeling better. My barks was squirrel. Now I'm going to go shoot a possum. Little fucker playing with his nuts now. All right. Shoot him. You don't shoot a squirrel until it's barked. That's the rule. Well, if you don't shoot his girl till it's barked that's the rule if you don't shoot him if you shoot him before he's barked he'll explode that's the thing

yeah explode like the end of that stick so the weeds apparently were pointy and tough and apparently sort of dangerous so apparently they had their own their own thing here which was no hitting above the shoulders which is honestly kind of pussy yeah daryl was 13 at this point when i was 13 we were having firework wars right we're literally shooting uh roman candles at each other from four feet away right at each other's faces cutting the stick off the bottle rocket and just like oh yeah throwing at each that's what we were doing i mean we were run fucker we were hucking hucking whole packs of fucking of uh of uh yeah firecrackers at each other yeah the roman candles were when someone lit a roman candle everyone oh

shit people would scatter one time my friend had one that was a roman candle that was i don't know why we're getting these stories but a roman candle that had it was also m80s so that's not cool it would shoot out and then explode yeah boom which was cool in the air but at somebody horrifying absolutely you know deadly and dangerous fireballs explode so he said oh yeah motherfuckers and he lit it and everybody scattered so he thought it was funny so he just put it in the middle of the street so it would just shoot in the middle of the street like yeah i'm not he wasn't gonna shoot anybody because that was fucked up he did that as like a thing of i'm not actually going to shoot you but everybody scattered so anyway it'd be like whipping out a tommy gun when everyone's

having a super soaker fight you come out with a machine gun right so he did he put it over one shot into the air poof and then it fell over and the next nine went into the fucking driver's side door of this car that was parked there and there's nothing we could do about it because it's gonna go get it shoot boom into this and how loud an exploding m80 is on fucking dorton is amazing i mean boom people came out of their houses we ran away the cops came there's nine of them it was bad and it was just boom nine times and we're like it's never gonna stop oh my god how many of these are there holy fuck are there extra in this one holy shit

how many did it say on the side i don't know i just it sounded like the the neighborhood was being attacked with fucking like air support that's what it's like because it was just boom oh man yellow and pink and blue and green oh it was festive jimmy it was really festive man gorgeous so apparently one evening he was 13 one of his cousins hit him in the side of the head and when he got up he couldn't see anything out of his left eye he got hit in the eye so he was dazed and he came home and he was all out of it and he went straight up to his room and he prayed for healing yeah by the way before anybody do not ever turn this episode off till it's over because the end of this is more fucked up than any of this

by the way it's crazy so anyway uh he goes up to his room and prays for his sight to return three hours later he can see again as the swelling went down and he took that as a sign that he is The swelling went down, and he took that as a sign that he is blessed by the Lord and oversaw more than others. He's got a nice umbrella over him. He was good in high school, actually. He was decent grades. He wasn't like a slacker. He wasn't in trouble a lot.

He dated a little bit, but he had friends and girls liked him. He didn't knock anybody up when he was 15, but he dated around a little bit, that sort of thing. He just kind of had a typical early 60s small town upbringing, decent grades. Wasn't one to study extra or anything like that, but he'd still get Bs or something. He was happy with that. In the yearbook, they showed that he played varsity basketball a senior year. So they showed him in his jersey there. He wore number 74 on the football team. He played on the line.

He played both ways on the line. So not bad. He was doing that. He was in the senior class production. He's in a play. Senior class production of Hillbilly Wedding. What is that? Wedding, apostrophe. Yeah. Hillbilly Wedding. What is that? Wedding, apostrophe.

Yeah. Hillbilly Wedding. Isn't that just Lil Abner? Yeah, I think that's just Wedding is what that should have been called. Local Wedding. Local folks marry. Right. Also on the track team there.

I mean, he did a lot. He was doing things, doing extracurriculars that sort of shit so you know not too he had a future of he's going to be a decent citizen around there his mother even thought maybe he'd be a preacher she was thinking he's into the church maybe maybe he'll be a preacher which she would have been super proud of he used to entertain his friends he could flick quarters into the air and draw his pistol and shoot them out of the air. Quarters. That's impressive.

Fucking quarters. That's very impressive. He would throw it up, then draw and shoot at the same time, not have his gun out first. That's really impressive. And he's flicking it like a revolving door. You don't know how you're going to catch that. Boom, and shoot it. That's unbelievable. And he could do it like clockwork, they said, which was fucking seriously impressive.

Yeah. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max,

starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription,

Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now

by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

Yeah. High school ends. He starts working full-time at the town garment factory, which he got a job in, you know, it's the 60s back then. And these kids weren't going to college a lot or anything, so he was happy to work at the garment factory. He was operating a heavy steam press, so that's kind of... It's a big deal.

That's tough, but that's where his dad works, too. So he'd hang out with his dad, and he'd have lunch with his dad and shit like that. And he liked kind of being able to work, and he saved some money. And he was hoping maybe to take a trip out west at some point. He wanted to hunt, so he wanted to go hunt elk out in Colorado or go up to Alaska and hunt fucking bears or something. Whatever the fuck they do up there. Whatever big shit they got up there. But that's all he really wanted to do was hunt.

August of 1965, he married a woman named Joyce. He was 19. She just finished the 11th grade, which is primary. And she's an old maid by then, 1965 in the hills. 19, 11th grade? What the fuck? No, he was 19. She just got out of the 11th grade, which is primary, and she's an old maid by then, 1965 in the hills. No, he was 19. She just got out of the 11th grade. She was 22, getting out of the 11th grade. It is the Ozarks, Jimmy. She's very much past...

And it's not even that she was held back. She just started late. Her parents found out that she needed to be in school when she was nine. Well, they just lost track of when the hell... How old is she? We should have put her in school three years ago. God i thought you did i thought i thought you did it i was wondering why she hanging around the house all the time and didn't know how to read i asked her

to read me something because i don't know either now her his mother thought that he really honestly thought about him maybe being a preacher but in 1966 he gets a draft letter and he's going to vietnam and uh so different time now so he goes to vietnam apparently he leaves as a clean-cut kid shooting quarters out of the air wanting to be a preacher working at the garment factory having lunch with his dad comes back a completely different guy i'm sure and he came he left with you know like the the hair combed with the grease you know perfectly perfect part yeah perfect part and all that he came home long scraggly hair really facial hair drinking oh sullen yeah angry yeah you know guy who's been

in vietnam for a few years and didn't fucking care for it you know that he's one of those guys so yeah he uh at one point he's sitting in a bar in a place called the queen of clubs just uh around here hanging out with his friends and he tells one of his friends you know the marine corps spent thousands of dollars teaching me how to kill and i still haven't killed anyone so he was like upset about that he didn't get you it's what he said this was while he was home on some leave or some shit. So I don't know if he didn't get to kill anyone over there or if, I don't have any fucking idea how that works. But he ends up being married twice and having five children. So, like we said, that doesn't, this guy is not on a basis for that right now.

That doesn't stink of a positive male role model. That seems, he might be a little wacky. A little flighty. But I mean, hopefully, the thing is, too, the guys didn't get help for that shit back then and they didn't really offer help. They didn't even know what the fuck it was. They didn't know what it was. They'd just be like, he's fucked up.

Right. Literally. He's fucked up. Stay away from Uncle Fred. Right. He might snap at any time. And, you know, it's fucking sad. I had an uncle that was in Vietnam.

It's very sad. And he actually kind of went the opposite, where he was always so happy. Really? Constantly just smiling. Weird. And I had heard stories after he died that that was not him when he came home. So I think he was just kind of forcing it. Really?

It was so dark in there that he had to fucking... So fucked up inside there that on the outside he had to be... So he was literally like a clown. Yes. Like... Just fake it. Obviously full of murder on the inside, but on the outside has to act... Rather murder every single one of you.

Right. Like a clown. But instead I'm going to play video games with this fucking kid. Oh my God. Jesus Christ. So, yeah, when he gets out, though, he also starts doing drugs and doesn't go to church anymore, obviously. He's done with that shit there.

He lives in Kansas City for some time, goes to the big city. Goes up there, sees a couple Royals games. He's like, now I'm a big city boy. Can't go back to the Ozarks. But he does. He returns home to the Ozarks, becomes a carpenter,

and does a bunch of jobs all around town doing different things. One of the people he meets that he works for a little bit around his property is a guy named Lloyd Lawrence, who we are well aware of here. And, yeah, so he, you know, he was a guy who would fit right into Lawrence's circle. He's at this point. He's he goes around, gets in fights at bars and fucking, you know, not Lawrence. Meese does. He's getting in fights at bars. He you know not lawrence meese does he's getting in fights at

bars he's getting drunk he's doing drugs he's you know acting like a local asshole so uh he's mainly little she goes to cockfights he's a huge cockfight enthusiast daryl too that's i think how he met lloyd was at cockfights because he loves going to cockfights uh basically he likes going to cockfights getting drunk and then getting in a fistfight at a cockfight which is amazing that's amazing that's a different type of night out and all these birds fights got me wanting to fight i'm jacked up right now oh boy what would you say you think that bird's gonna win fuck that bird i'll tell you start punching each other he's got a blood lust like nobody that's yeah um he had a few kind of ins

and outs with women at this point in time this is you know because he was drifted through the 70s and early 80s by the early 80s he's just kind of in mid 80s once he meets lloyd in 87 he's just kind of drifting finding women that he meets in bars and having short relationships with them and you know just not really doing anything but finally he meets a younger woman who's 21 years old and uh her name is mary epps and she is like kind of a nice girl she's like a nice girl way younger someone who should not be hanging out with daryl meeks at all i don't know what her deal is but she i wish there was someone around to go don't fucking hang out with him she needs like a girlfriend or a sister to take her aside and be like look somebody other than her

parents i know you think he's you know sexy outlaw shit and all that but this no he's getting in fist fights at cockfights he's in his 40s and he's in his 40s it's too old to be getting in fist fights at cockfights i'm sorry so but they fall in love, and they end up being together. They're not married here, but Mies and Larry Lawrence, though, or Lloyd Lawrence, they start talking a little bit more, and at one point,

Daryl's doing some carpentry work on the property, and Lloyd asks him, hey, you want to make some money? And he went, well, shit, I'm doing construction. Obviously, I want to make money, or else I wouldn't be fixing your chicken pens. I'm not doing this shit for my health, obviously. I'd much rather watch these chickens fight and then punch you after they're done.

So he said that Lloyd said, I'm talking big money like you've never even thought of before. We're talking you want to make a lot of money, not you want to make fucking 10 bucks an hour here. So Daryl said, fuck, yeah, I do. It's clear that this guy has a bunch of money. So how can I make a lot of money, not you want to make fucking 10 bucks an hour here. So Daryl said, fuck, yeah, I do. You know, it's clear that this guy has a bunch of money. So how can I make a bunch of money? So he said, Lloyd laid it out for him. Lloyd said, listen, what I'll do for you, Daryl, I'm going to set up a crank lab for you. Set up a meth lab.

Okay. Which is what if I came to you and I was like, Jimmy, you want to make some money? You'd be like, yeah, what do we do? Yeah. We got like, how are you want to make some money you'd be like yeah what do we do yeah we got like how are we gonna do live shows sure like i'll do money extra patreon what are we doing and i was like all right you got a shed sure yeah i keep my lawnmower in or something all right clear all that shit out that shit out of there we're gonna make meth okay that's step one i think you'd stop me there, probably. As soon as you told me the product, I'd be out, I think. Yeah, no. Pretty sure I'm out.

No. But he said that he'd set up a crank lab in the shed behind his house down there, and the two of them, because they could be in this area, Daryl could be kind of his local man, the two of them could take care of it and work it out, and they'd cook it up and do all of that. Yeah. So for the first little while, Lloyd said that he'll take care of the actual cooking

because Daryl doesn't know how to do it yet. But as Daryl proved himself as a worthy partner, that he would teach him the tricks of the trade along the way. Bobby Flay of meth. But yeah, basically, yeah, you're going to be my sous chef. That's what he is. He's going to cook it up. You're going to be my sous chef yeah that's what he is he's gonna cook it up you're gonna be my sous chef and then eventually we'll open up a satellite restaurant

in time square and you can run that and it'll be called whatever your name is but i'll also own it right that's what he says to daryl he says you you know you work up this thing you work up into business enough where i trust you enough and we will be into and then eventually you can break off and be in your business for yourself and sell your own meth and you'll know how to do it and you'll have the whole know-how of the operation.

So Daryl thought about it for about eight seconds and said, fuck yes and high-fived him enthusiastically. It's like, you bet your ass I'll do that. Got yourself a partner, sir.

Oh, fuck yeah. Because he's been broke. He's doing odd jobs. He's doing construction here and there. You know, it isn't like work for a firm. He's just doing kind of piecemeal handyman freelance construction. So it's a tough living around there trying to it's not a big population. It's not a lot of stuff for him to do money wise.

So I'm sure not a lot of jobs. And, you know, he plus he's a little fucked in the head he's got a meth problem he's not the most employable guy out there so he said sure he's been broke he's behind in his child support oh no by a lot by you know i don't know five years or so several thousand to joyce um his first wife and she recently moved back of the area and uh and kind of you know basically uh told him that she's not going to see the kids and just threatening to get the cops on him if he doesn't pay child support basically you're not going to see the kids and i'm going to call the cops on

you if you don't start paying my fucking child support so he's like i gotta start making money because then also he's got this nice young girl that he's talking to. Right. Nice young lady, Mary. This woman that he's trying to, you know, woo. And, you know, he doesn't want to be a broke schlub trying to woo this attractive young woman. He wants to try to impress her. So he said, you know what? I'm going to, you know, I'll do this shit. Let's do it. Let's make some fucking meth.

God damn it. Why not? Shit. So, and by the way, too, Daryl is using a ton of meth during this time as well. Oh, of course. He's always using meth. That's how they got into it with each other. And apparently, so Lawrence apparently is like a master.

Lloyd is a master meth maker. He's really good at it here. So by 1987, like I said, by late 1987, Dryl still hasn't been taught how to do it. I guess they've been doing it for months, and Darryl feels like he's proved himself trustworthy enough to at least teach him how to cook this shit up. The secret herbs and spices? Yeah. What the fuck? Let's go.

Yeah. I've worked here for this goddamn long. You're not going to tell me what's in the secret sauce? Special sauce? No. Fuck that. What happens when you go on vacation? We're going to make a batch of it? It'll go bad?'re not going to tell me what's in the secret sauce? Special sauce? No. Fuck that. What happens when you go on vacation? We're going to make a batch of it?

It's going to go bad? It's going to go bad in the fridge. It's mayonnaise based, dude. It's not. If you mix that other shit with mayonnaise, it's going to curdle soon. You don't need to give me the secret recipe. Yeah, let's do this. So he said, you know, they argued about it a little bit.

At first, he was like, nah, nah, I'll teach you soon. Don't worry about it. And he kind of blew argued about it a little bit. At first, it was like he was like, no, no, I'll teach you soon. Don't worry about it. He kind of blew him off a little bit. But after a while, Daryl starts pushing him and pushing him and pushing him and breaking his balls about it. Yeah. You know, when are you going to teach me? When are you going to teach me? It's like in Goodfellas when Maury kept asking Jimmy for the money.

Where's the money? Where's my money? You got money for this. Where's my money? Where's my money? Hey, I best of mine. The goddamn thing. He pays everybody else.

They're wearing it. I don't have my fucking money. It's that situation where Lloyd starts to get a little sick of hearing it from Daryl. And he's like, hmm, I don't like this right now. So what he does is, Jesus Christ, Lloyd Lawrence gives Daryl some pink colored crank, which is not normal, I guess, in the normal batches that he produces it's not pink colored so this is a pink colored crank there's a yellow tint or a white tint it's not it's rarely yeah not really pink so daryl in spite despite it being not looking great he does

it of course anyway he does it and he becomes extremely ill oh no after smoking this meth or doing it or shooting it or whatever the fuck he's doing at this point he becomes extremely ill after he does it so he's a little worried he thinks that lloyd's trying to poison him with this meth so uh he says that if he's trying to poison me with the meth when he finds out the meth didn't hurt me he's going to try another thing to hurt me obviously or maybe he's just trying to warn me but i don't know what maybe i should get away from this guy so he said that he told his girlfriend mary that things were getting pretty dangerous and that they needed to leave the area yeah so in december of 1987 they take off uh before taking off though they i guess if you're going to take off on a business thing like this, you go all or nothing. He steals four pounds of meth from not smart from Lloyd and four bottles of this chemical that's used in the manufacturing process.

That's apparently the stuff he uses is very, very expensive and hard to get a hold of it. Yeah. Four bottles of it. And four pounds of meth. That's a lot. At that point, they estimated all this is worth about 150 000 yeah something that would get you very much in trouble with a drug dealer who doesn't take any shit basically so he takes all of this shit and puts it all in a backpack and hides it uh hides it near

reed spring missouri like in the woods like okay hides it all doesn't take it with him but hides it because if you're gonna hit the road that's a lot of you don't really want to hit the road with that probably no not good if you get pulled over somewhere that'll send you up the road for quite some time i would say so so uh at this point lloyd finds out that he took off that daryl took off and he finds out that he took off with all fucking four pounds of his meth and a bunch of his chemicals. And he is fucking pissed, as you might imagine. He offers, he puts the word out, I don't know, in the cockfighting circles of the world or whatever. $10,000 for information about Daryl's whereabouts. Not even to kill Daryl.

Just $10,000 for a tip of where he is. Tell me where he is, I'll handle the rest. Ten grand. In the hills back there, these people would turn their fucking mothers in for $10,000. $10,000 is a year's salary in the 80s back there.

Just whisper it into a squirrel's ear and have him bark that all around the holler. You say 10,000? That's a squirrel noise. That's their bark. I don't know.

I don't know what squirrel, all I've ever heard them do is a squeak noise. But that's a bark, I feel know so i don't know what's all i've ever heard him do is it's squeak noise yeah but that's a bark i feel like what i'm doing i don't hurt your throat to do that have i heard him i don't even know if i've heard him squeak up i think i've only heard people make noises at him i don't think i've ever heard a chewing on nuts yeah but they squeak people make noises in movies they squeak though because that's to show you that it's moving or doing something that it's alive and then it runs so uh yeah so from missouri they uh first they go up to michigan for a while for some reason with no math with no math they just go up to michigan um from there they travel all the way to palmdale california jesus mary and daryl pawning shit along the way to Palmdale, California. Jesus. Mary and Daryl, pawning shit along the

way to support themselves. Basically, they pawn stuff to get gas money and food money and the next place to stay. This is some, this is rough. Hand-to-mouth living here. After they get to California, I guess she has some relatives out there, so they spend a couple weeks with relatives.

Well, I'm sure we're thrilled to see this guy. Oh, a meth-addicted hillbilly you you brought twice your age you brought with you this is great palmdale california is essentially uh the ozarks of california it's a shithole and even they would look down on him though you're like jesus christ so after they get there they do that um then uh they end up in uh uh Pine, California after that. So they're just kind of traveling around and doing all that sort of shit here. Now, in February of 1988, Darryl receives $12,000 in cash. This is the proceeds of a loan that he obtained by mortgaging a house he owned in palmdale

apparently through some sort of something because his his grandfather was a very successful hillbilly he had a lot of businesses and he had a lot of stuff in a lot of different places his one his paternal grandfather darrell's so he had some weird stuff and i think when his grandfather died he inherited some some things and property and shit like that so he had that mortgage one of them so yeah he put a mortgage on it gets twelve thousand dollars in cash which is a shitload of money in the you know in meth in 1988 and uh yeah he had no identification so they made they picked they bought a car in his girlfriend mary's name and then they left californ went to Arizona of course as

we're like a magnet for these fucking people so there he purchases in Phoenix by the way of course he purchases a 12 gauge shotgun obviously Mary purchases it because she has ID he doesn't have any ID

so she purchases it for him and by march they're still in arizona they're in cottonwood yeah which is northeast of phoenix up lovely in the middle of nowhere basically if you it's the scenic route from like the the new mexico border to phoenix it's like it's it's it's through pace and yeah yeah it's nice. Yeah. It's mountainy. It's shitty. It's scenic. It's scenic. If you like to look at dirt. Yeah.

Hey, look, dirt. Hey, look, more dirt. And cottonwood trees. Yeah. And a few trees, but not even good trees. So they told her, they said that police contact them in Cottonwood, but only because Mary's mother has been looking for her. She's an adult.

So obviously she's not like a missing person, but they're like has been looking for her. She's an adult, so obviously she's not like a missing person, but they're kind of looking for her. So the police in Cottonwood contact her and tell her that her mother would like her to call home and talk to her. So she does, and at that point, Mary Epps' mother says to her, just so you know, Lloyd Lawrence is looking for you guys all over this area and he says he's definitely going to kill daryl so maybe stay away from here so she tracked him down tracked them down to tell them to stay the fuck away because this dude is telling people he's asking

for 10 he's offering 10 grand just for info on them so they're gonna die so between march late march and early april or i'm sorry between late march and early May of 1988, Darrell and Mary Epps began. They go all the way back to Missouri, but they stop all over the place. It's a meandering little path here. They live in a camper along the way. They drive a camper, and they make stops. In late March, he buys an H&K Model 91 308 assault rifle in Alexandria, Louisiana. So down south of there.

And then shortly after that, he said that he basically said to Mary, he's got this gun and he says that he, quote, needs to settle things with Lloyd or we'll be running all our lives with holy shit with a 308 that's incredible so apparently he's ready to fucking yeah have some kind of war with lloyd here this is settling i don't know this is shaping up to be a hillbilly showdown if i'm lloyd i don't know that i want uh i don't want it with this guy a vietnam vet with an with an h and k and before he went to vietnam he could shoot quarters out of the air so i assume he probably honed those skills a little better pretty good yeah he's probably pretty decent so uh what he does here in uh in uh he does he's got all this now in early may he stays him and mary stay in arkansas for a little while yeah god he's just hitting all the hot spots finally finally they camp near chadwick missouri on may 9th and 10th in 1988 now it's at this point the next day he

he's gonna go in and get to get the meth that he's fucking stashed because he still hasn't gotten it yet he's got all this meth he's got a shitload of money sitting out in the woods somewhere right this is quite the tale right rained on out there this is crazy right this is fucking nuts he's like all right going in for a suicide mission he uh he goes to read spring and gets the drugs from where he hid them all right i think probably back in one of those caves nobody knows the back woods and shit like this guy he's probably tucked in a tree stump somewhere he's from here and he knows every nook and cranny and groundhog and every fucking spot in here. So he brings it back to the campsite at Chadwick and buries it.

Buries the backpack with all the shit in it for now. Went and got it to bury it elsewhere. To bury it where he is now. So it's not in the woods. So while they're staying at the campground, he tells Mary that if Larry was staying at the cabin that he owns in rural Taney County that weekend, that this is the time to get him. He goes, if Lawrence is out there, Lloyd's there, we're going to go and we're going to have to kill him. And he tells her. And she's like, okay, why don't we just leave?

We have all this meth. What are we talking about? And she's like, nope. Also, you started this shit. It's a showdown now. He's like, no, no, it's a showdown now he's like no no it's a showdown it's a matter of it's a matter of manhood now so which is insane so may 13th 1988 mary drives daryl to a location on a county road uh just inside the taney county border it's a short distance from where u.s highway 65 crosses over the bear creek okay just if everyone's sitting

there with a fucking map out, if you got your atlases, that's what it is. So she is instructed by him to check back with him each of the next two days. Come back once a day, every day for the next two days and see if, look at the trees

underneath the US Highway 65 bridge that crosses Bear Creek. If there are orange colored ribbons tied to these specific trees, look for those. OK, if she sees the ribbons, if she sees the ribbons, she is then to drive north on Highway 65 a short distance and he will be there waiting for her. OK, I'm 21. You're in your 40s this is fucking wild this is some out this is some weird vietnam yeah like are you having a flashback right now motherfucker i am not there is no vietcong no back there we are not doing this shit i'm just

just barely not a child anymore imagine that you're going what is your plan bro like what are you talking about orange what are we doing so yeah uh so anyway so she goes she says okay i guess i mean she's followed him all over the country and he said a bunch of crazy shit she seems to be down for the program she's in it she is a she's a she's down girl. Good for her. So we're good for him for finding her. She should run. Yeah, he's lucky to have her. Yeah, I would like to physically take her somewhere else and go get away from him. Please like a big foot and get her in the woods and just scream.

Go. Nobody likes you. Nobody wants you here. Get out of here. So when she drops him off,'s wearing of course all camouflage yeah and for the finishing touch he's got camouflage on his face on a paint face face paint paint face he's got camouflage paint on his face yeah all camo carrying a backpack armed with multiple knives a 357 smith and wesson pistol yeah And this is a guy, like I said, who can shoot quarters out of the air in a draw with a pistol.

So that's frightening. He's got a.357. He's got a fucking hand cannon. Go get him, Steel Team 6. Whoa. The 12-gauge that he bought and the.308. Good Lord. He's got it all and a bunch of knives.

Two fucking rifles. I don't know how many people he plans on murdering in these woods, but I guess in case he comes across some game as well, he can put them down. So his ammunition includes both double-aught buckshot and slug ammunition for the shotgun. He's got it, you know, alternating. So, yeah.

Anyway, on the first night, he goes to the house of someone named Rocky Redford. Rocky Redford. That's Robert's less successful little brother he'll leave redford everybody's like oh robert redford it's like at the 70s on the red carpet butch and sundance just came out he's like i'd like to everybody to knock guys guys guys i thank you for your adulation but please allow me to introduce you to my little brother rocky he's like guys. He's just kind of heavy set. This barefoot lad right here is what I used to be.

Right. But lucky for me, I'm handsome. This here is called breaking the cycle. Yeah. He got all the bad genetics. I got all the good genetics. What are you going to do? It's like twins.

I used to walk around without my shirt off in my 70s. I'm going to take my little Danny DeVito inside with me. And it's fine. And I'll be shirtless till i die so jizz puddle yeah now he goes to rocky redford's house not to stop by say hi have a cup of tea he goes there to settle a score that's what he tells mary um the guy wasn't home though so he just went out in rocky's barn and spent the night which which is frightening. Lucky he wasn't home. So the next morning, Daryl goes to a hillside from which he could observe Lawrence's property.

This is what he's doing. So now he is scoping him out, hunting him from a hillside. Now he's Rambo. Literally, this is Rambo now. Stalking his prey. Yeah, this is First Blood. If you've seen First Blood, this is the plot of First Blood. He's stalking from the hillsides.

It's creepy. Yeah, except he's killing this guy or trying to. So he from his vantage point, he saw a cream colored pickup truck arrive and remain for some period of time. That's what he watched. So he assumed that the driver of the pickup was a lookout for Lloyd Lawrence because he had lookouts for his meth because he had meth sheds. You can't just leave that shit in the woods so at some point during the day he sees lloyd speak to the driver and the truck leaves he's just sitting there for hours just watching this guy's house this is crazy so later on daryl begins to approach the cabin okay lloyd lawrence's cabin at one point he gets close

enough to hear the radio inside and what's on it and shit like he can hear it he's stalking outside at one point but as he's approaching he startles a bunch of birds ah and as when he startles a bunch of birds um lloyd's dogs are intent are their their attention goes to the birds, and then Lloyd's attention goes to the dogs. So Daryl's like, fuck, shit, I got to go. So what he does is he pulls back, withdraws to a point near a creek bed, a dry creek bed on the same property where he spends the night in a dry creek bed. I assume face painted. It's been days. He's still got.

Yeah, he's literally just stalking in the woods like he's in Vietnam here. This is nuts. Never going back to base. So May 15th, early morning. It's been days. Early morning. He, Daryl, constructs a like a fucking barrier out of cut tree branches he to block himself off he makes like a camouflage thing and places them in a semi-circle near a large tree so that he made basically like

a pocket right inside a large you know the tree he can stand and have a bunch of shit shielding him from the other side and then the tree's blocking him from the back so that's how he's doing it uh near a large tree it's about 15 feet from a road that leads from the lawrence's cabin to where the road goes into a small creek okay um he hides here for several hours he just sits behind the the the trees that he cut and just waits and stalks that is a patient man patient this is a guy who grew up in the woods hunting he cut and just waits and stalks. That is a patient man. Patient. This is a guy who grew up in the woods hunting. He can sit in here all day

and for days at a time. Patient. Finally, at about noon, he just waits this long, the Lawrences approach their position, his position where he is. They're riding four-wheelers. It is Willie passes him by first.

They never see him. With his feet dangling from the thing he passes by really fast apparently he zips by he's going he cruises now having a great time since they did that he's gotten used to it so he whips all around these trails like crazy it's wild right so he drives by fast and you know daryl sees him drive by through the trees that he's constructed for himself here. And he passes him, and the way he sees his feet dangling. And some distance behind, though, driving a lot slower, were Lloyd and Frankie on the same vehicle. So two bigger, heavyset, older people on the same vehicle are obviously driving slower through the trail.

So they're driving slower through there. are obviously driving slower through the trail uh so they're driving slower through there uh lloyd drives up on his four-wheeler with his wife there as he draws even with where daryl is daryl pops up yeah here um and shoots lloyd oh boy and then shoots frankie what the fuck man then shoots lloyd again using the shotgun this time, which it's loaded alternately, like we said. Their vehicle comes to a slow stop at the creek. At that point, he popped out of the woods. Now, at this point, Willie had heard gunshots and spun around. Whipped that shit around.

Whipped that shit around to see what was going on. As he does, he's approaching. Oh, no. Yeah, Daryl blasts him in the chest with a 12 gauge shotgun uh yeah it's loaded with double aught buckshot is what he hit him with there um yeah then knocked him off his thing he's hanging off on the floor there and that's how he was found too with his feet still tied to the fucking four-wheeler so it dragged him for a minute then if that's not good enough um they're all shot with shotguns in the chest here he goes up to each of them and shoots them in the head at point point blank range with the shotgun he fucking mafia execution

style the cop that found them said that all of their heads were like a fucking v basically with canoed their heads basically right in the forehead shotgun shot 12 gauge shit pretty fucking crazy so um all of them so it's at that point that daryl takes lloyd's watch and wallet and rings and robs him of course and six hundred dollars was removed from his wallet and he takes the wallet and hides it under a log whatever so uh back in his pocket yeah uh they were the bodies were found by retha retha lawrence who is frank and frankie and lloyd's daughter she comes upon this um she came around a bend on the road and saw the four-wheelers in a creek bed and she was like what the fuck's up with that yeah and walk closer and then she noticed that they were shot and uh she said i went numb i was it was total shock i

backed up and went to the nearest neighbor um and that was that she called the cops and the police came in and found this situation they were like holy shit so wow that's crazy now it gets crazier now's when the crazy starts okay that was nothing i'm dead fucking serious too he she after checking for yellow ribbons for a couple days i don't know how she just didn't leave but this she is down man this lady is down so she kept coming back she kept coming back and finally she saw the ribbons, and there he was up the road. Oh, boy. So she picked him up. They flee back to Illinois again. They went to Michigan the first time, but this time they go to Illinois first. Then they go to Colorado, then to Nevada, and then guess where else they end up?

Arizona. Back in Phoenix again. I don't know why. This is ground zero. This is where they pawn their guns in Phoenix, of course. They were bought here. may as well return them. Bring them right on back. So they stayed there in Phoenix for the remainder of 1988.

Really? Just hanging out in Phoenix. Yep. Where do you stay? Do they have family? Anywhere. This place is full of white trash. You can blend in anywhere.

Yeah. I don't know. The West Side. Just enjoy. Yeah. Who cares? That's all. Well, it's phoenix they were actually in phoenix yeah they're in phoenix yes so by that time uh they were beginning to run out of money

so he uh you know was trying to find money and shit like that finally january of 1989 uh they are it's two o'clock in the morning and they're in a desert area outside of phoenix which who knows what that is now but then uh it's downtown tempe yeah so yeah northeast though that's a so a maricopa county sheriff's deputy pulls up on them and they thought it was like people making out or something but they were sleeping in the back of the car at 2 a.m because they had nowhere else to stay uh so they run a check on both of them, and they figure out, they find out that Mies has warrants out of Missouri for one for concealing or carrying a concealed weapon like two years ago,

and then another one out of Stone County for a felony charge of nonpayment of child support. Oh, she went and turned him in. So they yank his ass out of the car and arrest him at support oh she went and turned him in so they yank his ass out of the car and arrest him at that point so they pull him in um they end up being returned to missouri obviously because police come from missouri to talk to them because they were looking for them to question him about the lloyd murder and because that's rumors got around because basically they said well who would hurt him and everyone was like well he's looking for this guy forever he's offering ten thousand fucking maybe that guy got pissed off so they're looking for daryl so obviously they tell missouri we have

your guy with warrants and then they the police from missouri come out they extradite him um and all that sort of shit mary is initially charged with hindering prosecution there. That will be dropped in exchange for her testimony later on as well. Oh, Mary. Oh, Mary. Yeah, she's got to save herself here. So now Daryl, Missouri Highway Patrol investigators are the ones who go to Phoenix to question him about the homicides. They read him his rights and he says that he doesn't want to talk.

He wants to talk to an attorney, which is the only smart thing he's done in this entire story and so the officers say all right fine they stop the conversation they interview mary who gives them permission to search the vehicle they've been driving and uh he ends up waving the extradition on the weapons charge is flown back to missouri and then he's uh he's seen writing uh he he ends up uh uh basically he the way he sees the cops writing he figures out in his own head that mary gave him up basically he's like they're writing way too much for a fucking weapons charge if they're bringing he's like yeah as much as they're writing and the vibe of the whole thing he's like i bet she gave me up which is also the fact that he's a meth head and he's paranoid about everything so whether he saw writing or not the guy could have been fucking he could have wrote two lines about

his wife or something and he would have been like they're writing about me they're all talking about me the pilots are talking about me they know could have been writing his laundry list that's i mean he's on meth so he's not reasonable really so uh anyway after they get back to missouri he's transported to uh back to the jail back to the sticks out there. During the ride, one of the patrolmen asked Daryl if he had. Do you have an attorney? And he said, quote, No, but I guess I'll have to. And then he asks if the cop asks if Daryl had made a statement.

And he says, No, I'm going to sleep on it. And then I might. So anyway, he's taken to a judge he's arraigned on the murder the armed criminal action the weapons charges read his rights told he's got you know counsel all that bullshit transported to jail and everything while he's being transported at a stoplight just before reaching patrol headquarters no he just pops out and he says quote the only thing I hate about this is Willie. That's just what he says from the backseat.

So the only thing I hate about this is Willie. No words have been spoken for a while. So the police officer says, why Willie? And he said, quote, Willie would have recognized me and I had to do him to. Oh, no. That's what he says. Yeah. He goes, Willie would have recognized me. I had to do him to.

Yeah. So what happens when you fucking beat up or hurt or maim or murder anybody with a fucking disability that's it's pretty fucked up that'll be on your conscience i would say so you're a piece of shit even if you're a piece of shit it's like damn i didn't even i wasn't even mad at him i shouldn't have done that and i wasn't even mad at him yeah so uh at that point the sergeant asks if you want to make a statement about it and uh he says, yeah, fuck it. Why not? I'll make a statement.

Sure. What the hell? Throw one together here. So he does say that he only wants the sergeant, the guys who the guys who picked him up in Arizona. He'll only talk to them. He doesn't want to talk to any other county officials. So I'll give a full statement, but only to those guys. They're like, fuck it.

They don't give a shit. Go for it. So he's taken into a room where they are. One of the cops who from the local guys asked to leave. And he does. When the other two police officers that escorted him get into the room, he's informed of his Miranda rights. He waived his rights. He's interviewed about the homicides.

After about an hour, they set up a videotape and everything like that uh in the interview he again they tell him his rights and all that sort of shit and he gives a verbal and written statement about killing the lawrences it's a 28 minute videotape confession 28 minutes 28 minutes of he gave all the details i mean they asked him all the details he gave the details about the killings exactly what he did when and how he shot them and everything like that he said that he believed it was necessary to kill lloyd lawrence to protect himself and his girlfriend mary he said that he was frustrated because lloyd had not followed through on promises to quote show me how to put thousands of dollars in my pocket by making meth that was the quote he gave to the police wow he told me he was gonna

help me make meth and he didn't so fucking right you do you would have killed him too right detective right deputy we were making meth you know what that is mad at that so the cops are like is he fucking telling us this is crazy he just like just roll... Just roll the tape. Just keep it rolling. Thousands of dollars. There's battery in that, right? And tape and everything. All right, good. So in late December 87, he said he became frustrated. He told them about the four pounds of meth and the chemicals that he took and all that sort of shit.

And they're like, well, that's going to piss him off. Yeah. So he said that Mary tried to talk him out of coming back to do this at all, to kill Lawrence. He said that, quote, she did not have full knowledge of my plans at all he said that i let her believe i was going to burn lawrence's cabin not shoot him or do anything like that i was just going to get back at him and burn it down when he wasn't there haha look at you now you got no cabin um he said that he spent the night in the area the next morning morning, he watched the cabin. He told him all of that that we talked about before.

He said when he saw Lloyd arrive at the cabin, driving as fast as he could, driving as fast as he could drive on that dirt road. That's when he said it was time to go down there. The guy asked him, why did you have so many weapons? Is that over? That's a lot. That's a lot. The 308's too much. That's what I mean.

He says, quote, I knew that if Lloyd was over there, he'd have somebody waiting for me. you know that's a lot that's a lot and he's 308's too much that's what i mean he says quote i knew that if lloyd was over there he'd have somebody waiting for me so he said that he wanted to make sure that he had enough to take care of whoever the fuck was around basically um he did not and he also said he didn't know if the lawrence's had any dogs with them that were going to attack him or some shit like that so he wanted to have the pistol in case of you for the king who know that's what i mean best not miss so this is the way it is he described building up the uh building up the the blind of trees around him he said he waited for seven or eight hours in there before anybody showed up and he said they

finally appeared he said quote the kid came through pretty fast talking about willie flying by him he said you mean you knew it was willie the cop asked him and he said yes and then he said he saw his shoes tied to the fucking who the fuck else drives around like that nobody yeah nobody says hey tie my fucking feet to the rack that's comfortable so it turns into a chopper at that point which is pretty fucking funny he's like hey look at me put some a-pangers on it that's's all. Yeah, man. It's fucking pretty cool. So he said he saw them approaching, driving slowly, and he said that Lawrence was looking from side to side, so he decided to shoot Lloyd.

He said, quote, I was determined nothing was going to stop me. Once I got started, I knew it was all the way or nothing. I thought if I didn't get Lloyd, he'd get married or do something bad to her. In fact, I'm sure of it, which probably if you tried to murder him. Well, if you don't get Lloyd, that means you got somebody. Somebody. Yeah. He said that he shot the man and then the woman next.

He shot Lloyd and then Frankie. And then he said once Willie returned, he had to shoot him. He said that he shot all three of them again in the head. He shot Lloyd and then Frankie. And then he said once Willie returned, he had to shoot him. He said that he shot all three of them again in the head. And then he turned off the all-terrain vehicles, the keys, turned them off, and took the watch and the wallet and all that shit, $600. And he collected these shotgun shells, the spent shells that were around. Picked them up off the ground.

Picked them up, yeah. He didn't want to leave those behind. And he asked whether he was, you know, on the videotapepe were you coerced into making this statement or anything like that and he said quote i'm doing this for mary's sake because she didn't want any part of it i dragged her into it she's the finest person i know uh i'll do anything to get her out of it then they asked uh him if he felt any remorse for the killings and he said not for lloyd i knew what i had to do there i do for willie and i do for frankie he's like but lloyd can go fuck himself don't care he got what he deserves so he's charged with first degree murder obviously it's not a real big shock there he needs

a lawyer they can't find one in the area to represent him they're having a hard time finding him a lawyer nobody wants any part of this. A hearing is postponed twice because he cannot find counsel, basically. The public defender's office can't, they said they can't afford a representative for him

in a murder trial like this in this area and he can't find a private counsel. So there's just no lawyer for this guy. So he sits around waiting for a lawyer

for a while and you know what he says about it? What? What do you think? Who gives a shit? I'll do it myself. He says, I don't mind that I haven waiting for a lawyer for a while. And you know what he says about it? What do you think? Who gives a shit? I'll do it myself. He says, I don't mind that I haven't found a lawyer. You want to know why I don't give a shit?

You want to know why? Because I'm praying. Because I found religion. I don't care. He walked in to get interviewed at one point wearing a jumpsuit and all that, carrying a bunch of books and Christian shit and religious things and all religious. I'm a carpenter. My girl's name is Mary.

I'm Jesus. I'm Jesus. Yeah. That's right. Is that what he says? Who says him? No, no, no, no. It's worse, honestly.

What he says is worse. It's actually crazier. Okay. If that's possible. I'm Jesus? Here it comes, Jimmy. He says that he's found God, and he isn't worried about defending himself I could defend myself against these murder charges why quote God is my lawyer he's the best lawyer in the world

he's his lawyer God is my lawyer Jimmy not he's the best lawyer in the world not even in the universe only on earth though the rest of the he's lacking you get him in another galaxy another guy on mars there's better lawyers there but here he's the best he's just the best does he sit with an empty chair next to him i feel like he does just look over to it constantly he comes in with a tie on yeah i'm gonna say for yourself so that's what he's saying now he's charged with first degree murder and armed criminal action and he's saying now. He's charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action. And he's saying, God's got this. There's more. He's going to ask and share questions like Clint Eastwood. Well, yeah, there's more.

He says that it's his recent re-acceptance of Christianity. He says that he refused to speak directly about the charges against him. He only says that he feels comforted by god's love he says quote whatever he wants it will be god can do anything my god keep this in mind by the way yeah i'm just just it sounds crazy and i know i'm not a religious guy you know that i don't believe in this but just just keep it in mind back burner back burner this because this gets crazier trust me okay so whatever he wants it'll be it'll be blah blah blah so he says that he uh uh you know he doesn't consider lloyd a former friend of his because he said he was just mean to him lawrence lloyd lawrence he said quote lloyd didn't have

any friends when he was asked about that they asked him about the shotgun that the police recovered and he said quote this was all part of god's plan i'm not stupid he said quote uh he said quote women problems 20 years ago made him very stressed he said quote it about drove me crazy and he said uh pointing to his head about drove me crazy that you know that and they said in the article pointing to his head and he said that he doesn't blame vietnam for his problems he blames lady troubles okay really the vietcong couldn't get me but you young lady have driven me over the edge now so uh yeah he said he blamed he said his problems began the day he turned against god that was the problem he said quote i was saved i was saved years ago and then i turned my back on him.

He said then he got involved in drugs and all this sort of shit. But he said since he's been in jail two and a half weeks before this interview, quote, I got saved, and it's over now. He goes, it's all good. He said, quote, people who talk to me act like it's doomsday. He said, but I'm in better shape than I've ever been in my entire life. He said, referring to his renewed relationship with god uh he said that a man whom he'd never met before visited visited him in jail about two weeks after he arrived from arizona he said that uh this acquaintance who he won't identify but he considers a friend, gave him a Christian book, Power Through Praise.

And he said at that point, he fasted and prayed and found God. He said, it opened my eyes and opened my ears. He was ready. He displayed several books that he had, How to Turn Your Faith Loose. He needs no help in turning anything loose. He turns it loose just fine. Casting Your Ca cares upon the Lord. And he said, quote, I turned to God in desperation in trying to help my best friend.

I wanted him, God, he means, to take care of her. I ended up saving myself. Wow. Yeah. He wouldn't name this friend that he, like I said. He seems to be a hero, sir. Yeah. So who is this hero?

I don't know. He said that he's not worried about getting a lawyer. He said, quote, I'm not putting my faith in man. Jesus Christ. He wouldn't elaborate, but he says that he has disappointed God in the past. He says, quote, I was in sin and it blocked my eyes. He said, it's brought me back to God now, this purpose. And that's all this things happened for a reason. And it it's brought me back to god now this purpose and that's all

this things happened for a reason and it was to bring him back to god and he said he's not concerned about the charges because quote i got god with me these are the answers to his questions a paraplegic and frankie had to die for him to find god that's how it works man um yeah he says so the prosecutor here he says that uh after they asked him, by the way, the defendant here, the guy, he says he's trusting God to be his attorney. And the prosecutor said, quote, I hope that we can get an attorney assigned to him very quickly. That's what he said. Like, that's not going to cut it. I can't enter that.

I can't argue with that guy. How do I argue with God? He said, the state will make sure one is there. I have every confidence that an attorney will be appointed. He will be fully and adequately represented, not by God. So he's trying to get his confession tossed. That's his legal strategy to try to get the confession tossed. They said that, you know, they asked him during this, did his concern for his girlfriend have anything to do with his confession? And he said it was everything that had to do with the confession he said that they promised him that mary would go free with a slap on the wrist if he just confessed and all that sort of thing which is true um but she's

going to testify too and uh he said that he was worried that mary would have a nervous breakdown or commit suicide over this so he figured he just confessed to get her off the hook so they said during questioning that no deals or promises were made and then his confession was voluntary he suicide over this so he figured he just confessed to get her off the hook so they said during questioning that no deals or promises were made and then his confession was voluntary he started it from the back seat without even a fucking any provocation whatsoever um the cop said quote we just took the information from him he just talked and we wrote the shit down i don't know so uh the trial comes april of 1990 is the trial here. And Mary has to testify against him.

And she does. She testifies. She tells him that he told her that he killed the Lawrences. And it's not a big, long case, prosecution-wise. They have his confession. It's 28 minutes long of him detailing what he did. And then they have the girlfriend who corroborates that by saying, this is what he told me as well. I picked him up here.

I dropped him off here, which fits in the timeline of all the stuff. We have three bodies, three bodies. We have guns that we got. They found the shotgun. Oh shit. Oh yeah.

They got him out of the pawn shops. It's, you know, it's, he's fucked. I mean, he's got a full confession. Um,

they're going for the death penalty here, by the way, too. This is a death penalty case. Absolutely. Cause it's for money and all that sort of shit meth and meth and pure meth and he killed a fucking teenage paraplegic over somebody else's meth that's fucked that's really fucked that's how you get called on this shit so he uh he's the his defense attorney said that he will not call

any witnesses in this phase of the trial basically they're not even contesting the guilt phase of the trial they're just they're like they're gonna deal with it on the on the appeal we're fucked basically we have to just try to hope that they don't kill him that's it because we can't even try to say he didn't do it um so his he didn't call any witnesses in the first phase and they were saying that they could you know the jury could deliberate super early on this one uh mary said that quote he talking about meese he said the only way to stop lloyd was if he was dead he said that uh once they were in california he said why are we doing this we're in california we were so far away from the ozarks no one's gonna get us here and that he said that quote she said he said we had to go back and

take care of this. And she said she didn't think he was even didn't believe him. She said, quote, I didn't think he was serious. I just thought he wanted to go back to the area just to satisfy an ego for being seen. Like, I'm back here. You're not driving me away. I'm not afraid of you. Yeah. So

before the verdict comes in, they talk to his lawyer and he's mad because the judge was not the jury was not instructed to consider downgrading the charge from first to second degree murder. There was no instruction on that. And he considers that his best point of appeal. So, you know, whatever he says, our strategy is to concrete this or concrete to concentrate on the second stage i think we have a good jury they're not enthusiastic about the death penalty they're not going to try to play god so uh well i mean if the lawyer's going to be god he's going to be in the courtroom he's right there anyway you might as well ask him so uh he also says that he doesn't anticipate calling daryl in the first phase of the trial as it ends but if he's convicted then

he's probably gonna have to testify in the penalty phase to save this you know don't kill this guy um so yeah uh the verdict comes in the jury deliberates for 45 minutes that is barely long enough to fill out the form that is fast that is so they just went in we're all okay yeah and they just filled it out i didn and even do a fucking vote. They're just like, yeah, right. I mean, themselves, each other shook some hands. I mean, it'd be nice to see you. Yeah.

Well, we'll have lunch later. Let's just get this over with quick. So there's time for lunch when we're done. So after 45 minutes, they come in with a. Now, by the way, the only charge here is Willie. Really? He's only charged with killing Willie. Those other charges are still sitting

on the side because he admitted to killing willie well he admitted to killing all three but willie is the sympathetic one okay if you talk if you bring if you bring lloyd into this then you have to talk about lloyd's character you have to talk about how lloyd you could bring in a parade of people saying lloyd is violent lloyd beat me up like threaten me like threaten to kill me and then it's lloyd's putting 10 grand out on the street for knowledge of where i am yeah now it's not looking quite the same anymore so now it's looking like oh boy man with his shoes tied to the front of the quad so he could drive it they go oh i mean he shot the kid that wasn't good but he kind of should have shot that one guy so they didn't want to

do that so they just willie's a sympathetic kid with nothing to fucking not a word to say so he ends up uh that's what they convict him of one count of first degree murder which is enough to go to sentencing and uh the prosecutor says quote i believe after they view the evidence they will accept that there are enough aggravating circumstances and that the death penalty should be assessed in this case whatever they decide will suit me oh i'm sorry this is this is willie's father and uh lloyd's son buck lawrence he says quote whatever they decide will suit me it doesn't make any difference to me he doesn't he's more like i am like what's the fucking difference kid's dead he's in jail who cares whatever the penalty is i'm fine with it fine so uh they asked about

receiving the death sentence to uh meese's. Daryl's lawyer said that statistics show 70% of the people on juries believe in the death sentence, but less than half will vote for the death penalty in a particular case because they generally find enough mitigating facts to justify the lesser penalty. Generally, decent people don't want to kill anybody. Yeah, you have to really piss them off. But you kill a paraplegic. 100% of people think that's death penalty, death penalty right yeah they show to show aggravating circumstances they show a five minute silent videotape of the crime scene that showed the bloody bodies all mangled with the kid hanging off a fucking four-wheeler and everything the prosecutor says the video shows better than anything this uh than anything else is wanton disregard for human life

and the defense argued that the video should not have been shown to the to the jurors and all that um uh the defense lawyer said the video is the most horrible thing i've ever seen he said in 30 years of working as a lawyer he's worked in some 100 murder defenses he said but this is unconscionable. Sit tight, man. YouTube's about to come out. Right? No shit. So he calls for mitigation. 31 witnesses, Daryl does.

Friends, relatives. For mitigating. For mitigating. They say he's a great guy. They all call him a law-abiding citizen. They said right up until the time he shot that kid, he was a law-abiding citizen. He was also selling meth and everything else. And not paying child support.

Yeah. And fighting at cockfights. Yeah, he's doing a lot of bad shit here. They said the only thing they, even witnesses, his friends said they didn't even know he used drugs. They're like, what are you talking about? Character witnesses smiled at him, waved at him, you know, acted like he was a good guy. The defense attorney asked the witnesses if they knew that lawrence lloyd had threatened his life several said that they'd heard rumors that lloyd had offered ten thousand dollars to find him and kill him so among the witnesses were his mother

his sons that were 19 and 14 at the time shane and wesley and uh what the defense lawyer asked shane who was 19 are you here trying to save your daddy's life? And he said, yes. The doctor's report, psychologist report, said that Daryl has the type of personality that was more susceptible to influence by authority figures. OK, they're asking them to consider the doctor's report along with his testimony to remove and to remove the confession and statements as evidence in the case that's their thing while it goes um the the defense attorney says quote he will die an old man in a penitentiary you're not you're giving daryl the death penalty will not bring willie back you take daryl's life and you do the same thing to his family that daryl did to

willie's that's not justice he said that uh this is out of character for daryl this is ridiculous quote if it had not been for nam drugs and lawrence lloyd's drugs uh willie would be alive today is what he said he's putting willie's murder on fucking yeah lawrence as he said he was a marine in vietnam and it's that's what it is so daryaryl testifies to he gets up there and he doesn't really say shit. He exercises his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself. And he will not discuss any information about the murders at all or anything like that. He just admitted the confession was true, but he said he didn't give it voluntarily. He'd been promised leniency from his girlfriend.

That's all he would say. That's it. So this comes in and the verdict comes in you sir may fuck off death penalty for daryl okay i heard nothing in there that would sway me as a jerk that's what i mean so i'm wearing we don't even like the death penalty we're not ozark missourians you don't tend to like it paraplegics on a quad having the best day of their life never once that's never done it that sounded like he was having a blast hanging out with his grandpa fucking cruising around the woods a huge smile as he tore my he's fast uh the defense attorney said that uh quote this is very depressing i suspect that the jury was so death prone that they had strong leanings toward that before they even heard the evidence

death prone that they had strong leanings toward that before they even heard the evidence. The jurors were escorted out of the jury room here. And, you know, the judge said that he told the defense he had 25 days to file after trial motions and all that good shit. And yeah, he says to the jurors, quote, I told them it's over and they're free to talk to their spouses, ministers or bartenders about it. But they don't have to. He tried to get a little humor in there. I appreciate a judge. It's got a little're free to talk to their spouses, ministers or bartenders about it, but they don't have to. They try to get a little humor in there. I appreciate a judge. It's got a little line, you know, so it's not a great joke, but he's a judge. What the fuck do you want?

Pretty good joke. It's not what he does for a living. It's about the fucking video. You just watch. Yeah. Your spouses, ministers or bartenders. That's pretty good. So he says went to the defense attorney.

I don't know if it's George, got off the stool for a minute. So Norm's defending him. He says that this is the first time in his experience of defending 100 people charged with murder that a jury has recommended the death sentence for one of his clients. He also says this is the first time the prosecutor, the Taney County prosecutor, Jim Justice. His name is Jim Justice. Pretty awesome. Jim justice is his name j-u-s-t-u-s justice it's awesome that's pretty cool uh has been able to convince a jury to recommend the death sentence so it's the first time he's had it and the first time he got it so hey this guy must be a special kind of asshole he said in my 14 years as a

prosecutor you're both one for one yeah well as he said in my 14 years as a prosecutor you're both one for one yeah well as he said in my 14 years as prosecutor this is the second time i've asked a jury to recommend the death sentence and it's the first time he got it he said this man deserves to be put to death and his mother daryl's mother says that she thinks it's unfair for her to have the the murder cases separated she said that if lloyd lawrence was if his bullshit was in there you know it would have been different wouldn't be a death penalty he said i'm disappointed but i'm not defeated i'm still standing on that solid rock of jesus that's what she said uh they have planned to appeal the case and we'll go very briefly here uh the appeals are basically he's

trying to say that they were arresting him for murder but instead of arresting him for murder they were arresting him on the lower charges just to question him for murder which is not actually technically allowed but it's really hard to prove yeah that that's what it is it's like well i'm arresting you and i'm going to question you not i arrested you to question i'm arresting you on the warrants that are out for your fucking arrest and that's what they said they said the arizona cop who arrested you did not know that you were wanted for questioning he only knew that a fucking warrant came up on the computer right and you needed to go that was it whether the missouri cops were doing it or not is another story because they might have done that on purpose

they might have looked through the records and went oh he owes child support that's a way we can get him i'd like to know where in northeast phoenix he was arrested for sleeping in a car because uh that's where scottsdale is and that's where you do not sleep in a fucking car. No, fuck no. Yeah, you're going to get it. Especially if you're running from something. Absolutely. So they say, fuck you with the appeals.

Yeah. So in November of 1998, an execution date is set, finally, after all the appeals are done. An execution date is set for january 27th 1999 fast coming up fast but big fucking butt this would have been the second day of the pope's visit to st louis oh they don't want to do that pope john paul was in town there this guy loves jesus and they were like fuck we can't execute somebody while the pope is here he's really anti-death penalty the pope like church is really anti-death penalty, the Pope. Like, church is super anti-death penalty.

So they were like, fuck. Like, he'll just talk shit. We'll look stupid. This is bad. So they abruptly, the next day, without calling a hearing or anything, the court just arbitrarily changes it to February 10th. We'll execute him another day when the Pope's not there. We fucked up. As soon as he gets the fuck out of town.

Yeah. we'll execute him another day when the pope's not there we fucked up as soon as he gets the fuck out of town yeah so obviously this is interpreted by everybody as they don't want to execute him when the pope's here so uh what ends up happening is while the pope is in town the governor mel carnahan is also a deacon at a baptist church so he's super religious so he visits the pope and whatever and the pope looks him in the eye and says thou shalt not kill he said it right to his face he said looked him right in the eye and said thou shalt not kill and said that uh he said that uh you know he urged this guy to quote he said quote please have mercy on mr meese thou shall not kill oh how did he hear about it and he was like tell him fuck the governor was like um and then he just stood there like what you're gonna do and the guy was like um a religious guy can't say no to the pope yeah it's

just one of those things it's like a mob guy saying no to the you know to fucking marlon brando and the godfather you just can't do it you can't kiss the guy saying no to the, you know, to fucking Marlon Brando and the Godfather. You just can't do it. You can't kiss the guy. And then when he tells you what to do, go. No, sir. Yeah. So he said that, you know, he didn't know what to do.

So Jesus Christ. So he ends up. Wow. He ends up from that deciding on January 28thth 1999 to commute his sentence to life in prison you have to based on what the pope said you have to right it kind of got really he got punked into it yeah the guy said like in front of people too right like al gore was there he was the vice president at the time like right in front of a bunch of people he was like he was like nice to meet you nice to meet you please have mercy on this man. Thou shalt not kill. And he was like, fuck. Fuck.

Pee-zoo with you. Throwing that Bible shit at me now. Fuck. And also with you, pontiff. The governor, yeah. The governor said it was a very moving time, a very moving moment for me. It was, by the way, what saved him? Yeah, Jesus.

He was right. Yeah. Fucking. Jesus spoke to the Pope. He said, no, God's got this. He's the only one executing. And literally the Pope came from Italy to say, don't kill this hillbilly. What are the odds?

It's crazy. The governor said, a very moving moment for me. It was one of those moments that would never expect to happen in one's life. I would never expect it to happen again in my life. And I felt that this response from me was appropriate. He commuted it.

So listen, he has let 26 other executions go through. Except this one. Except this one. Did he call the pope and be like, what about this guy? How about this guy? Have you heard anything? He has only commuted one other death sentence, And that was for a man whose jury was not told of his quote unquote mental retardation legally. So they did not know he had an IQ of like 62. And so they that was they commuted him. So basically, it's wild. The Pope loved it. The Pope praised the generous decision of the governor there. He said he was thrilled with that.

One of his lawyers, Mises lawyers, Laura Higgins Tyler, said that Darrell was, quote, awestruck. And he she said, quote, Darrell has remained very steadfast in his faith that he would receive relief from God. I'd say this sure looks like a miracle to me. Literally the day. I mean mean it's fucking crazy i would say that's the most relief from god you could ever get yeah it works right um he says that uh yeah uh the pope said that i renew this appeal made most recently at christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty which is both cruel and unnecessary and that was john paul too that was john paul too yeah um so even they were one of the defense attorneys there said quote quite frankly this case was probably one of the weaker clemency cases he's like he's a lucky motherfucker there's no way they give him he said in this case

there were no real claims of mental illness no questions of guilt it was a triple murder he had one argument dealing with post-traumatic stress from Vietnam, but it really had a snowball's chance in hell. I guess timing is everything, huh? He just got lucky, man. Jesus heard about it. So what does Daryl say? He believes the Pope was sent to Missouri by God at that specific time to save him. He said he dismisses all the talk that he's alive because of publicity and circumstance.

He said it was God's will. What are you talking about? He says, just as it will be God's will someday that I will walk out of prison a free man. Let's hope not. Stop calling your shot. That's what I mean. Chill the fuck out. Yeah, calm down.

You hit one into the upper deck. Relax. Put one over the wall. Run the base and shut the fuck up. They're going to fucking hit you in the head with the thing next time. That's how that goes. You're getting fucking plunked next time. You're getting brushed back. They're going to fucking hit you in the head with the thing next time. That's how that goes. You're getting fucking plunked next time. You're getting brushed back.

You're going to take one on the chin. Calm down. The mother said that, you know. What if he gets out? And then she's like, it is God's will. I will be one day a millionaire. I will be the president of the United States. I'm sure you will.

Next thing you know. The son of a bitch. 2028 and he's taking it all. She also, the mother believes that she always believed he'd get out, and she also believes that he will also be let out of prison, not only with the death penalty. Now, the other side of this, people who aren't thrilled about it, David Lawrence, who's the son of Lloyd and Frankie, said he was disappointed that nobody from the state told the family of the

governor's decision they didn't contact them before they fucking said it publicly well no because they're fucking they just made an announcement and so he said he learned of it in a phone call from a friend who heard it on television in chicago oh my god this is that's fucked up that's like a sports guy hearing he got traded and reading in the paper that's ridiculous you tell the people first he said quote from the beginning we said whatever the court decided we'd be fine with it and he said again whatever the decision was was this time made was fine with us but the fact that we were not contacted in any way was not good they don't even care they're not going to kill him like just tell us about it keep us updated that's not a lot to ask jesus i mean

fuck um now george marion who describes himself as one of Lloyd Lawrence's closest buddies, as he quotes it, he says that if he could get close enough to the Pope, I'd clock him straight and sure in the mouth. He wants to punch the Pope. He threatened to punch the Pope in the mouth. There's been several firsts on this show and i don't think that anyone on any of our other shows has threatened to clock the pope straight and shore in the mouth before right no that's a new one it's a it's extra sting with straight and

short really give it to him he's like a hundred at that time he's literally aim for that old fox face he's like 97 i'm gonna knock his out. I'm knocking that hat right off his fucking head. Test his chin. Yeah, check that chin, bitch. How do you like that? Nice dress, motherfucker. Just check that chin, bitch. Pow!

Collect your hat off the floor, motherfucker. That's right. And he walks away. Cardinal, pick up your boy. Cardinal, get your boy. Your boy's mouth right in checks. His ass't cash motherfucker that's right who wants some bring all the cardinals and bishops i don't give a fuck just knocking them down it's pow so uh yeah he wants to take it out on the pope that's awesome i mean what the hell

david lawrence again the son, said, quote, As far as I'm concerned, the governor and the Pope are showing more mercy toward a convicted killer than toward us. Yeah, that's right. So they said that, my God, this is just Terry Teague, who's a person who owns a sign shop in town. They just got, like, the man on the street. And it's Terry Teague. It's a person who owns a Terry that we talked about, who owns a sign shop in town. They just got like the man on the street. Terry T is another person with double doubles. Terry Teague. So this could be he or she would ever said, quote, It's just so amazing that someone would

be in prison for murder from such a small place as Reed Spring. And then the pope, you know, from Rome, you know, would be here and all these events would come together he's gotta qualify which is really it's it really is like amazing this is insane right if you wrote a movie and you said and then the pope comes you'd be like whoa whoa whoa this is a backwoods the fuck when is the pope and we can't put the pope in the screenplay that screws the whole fucking thing up no no the pope terry qualified at the pope yeah from rome you know yeah from rome you know that one that rather than the pope that's over in japan the japanese pope doesn't get over here as much

not just some dude with the last name of pope yeah the fucking pope the actual pope with the hat and everything he comes out every once in a while he comes hey this fucking guy you know unbelievable now the the governor's political adversaries are fucking pissed they're gonna eat it up they said quote if we're gonna listen to the pope we should listen to everything he says let's so let's pass that partial birth abortion ban is what he says i'll give you one fucking guess where they where he was from right now listen i don't think we should ever listen to the pope about anything okay except to wear you, to get to wear flowing outfits or some shit like that. But you know what they say?

A broken clock is right twice a day. Yeah. Except about abortion. It's always wrong about abortion. A broken clock if it's the Pope's. Right. So shut up about abortion. Who cares?

So anyway, God damn. Don't try to put that in there with this. This is different. That's fucking wild. So they said that he still may be tried on the two other murder charges that were originally dropped. They can obviously be raised again. Do you think the Pope would win office if he ran?

Where? I just thought about that. In Italy? Anywhere here. Not here, no. Anywhere at all? Maybe Boston, but outside of that. Nobody's that Catholic.

That's my point. It's just he doesn't hold office. We're not taking his opinion on any fucking political shit. Shut the fuck up. Yeah, he just guilted a guy. That was all it was. It was personal guilt. It had nothing to do with it.

Separation! Let's go. Yeah. Jesus Christ. So in 2008, we catch back up with old, with fucking Daryl, who's just thrilled to be, you know, not dead. He's watching, when they talk to him he's watching pope benedict at the time on tv the new pope or second pope after that and he said uh you know he talked about it and he

said that uh you know he's facing life in prison he says he has no chance of parole he says but before i thought i was i thought he was kind of cold and distant saying of the new pope he says now he seems warmer it's changed my opinion on him. He's like a pope critic now. He's a world-renowned pope critic. He says that he eased his view of Catholics also since his death sentence was commuted. He was never like Catholics before. He grew up in Pentecostal church, and he said that he considered it strange that there was a boy in town who was Catholic,

and he considered him strange because he was Catholic and nobody would talk to him. That's what the South is. That's what they look like. Ah, you're from up north. I don't know what fuck you're eating goddamn catholic don't trust that don't know you're nothing what we want good because i'm not just fish that's weird that's weird so he said quote i'm not prejudiced like i used to be but i've had to read but he said i've had to rethink that. I know they're real Christians. I'm kind of connected to the Pope now. I believe God used him to save me. I hope the new Pope speaks out against the death penalty also. And he says that, you know, he's not going to praise the other Pope, though, too.

He says, quote, Some people say I'm ungrateful, and I know I sound like it, but I have to give it to God. I have to give the glory to God. The pope was just the vessel. It couldn't have been a janitor because the person had to have a lot of influence. Wow. He says also that he has no remorse still for the for killing the Lloyds. He said, quote, I'll tell you what. That's literally what he said.

Quote, I'll tell you what. He's just what he was. I ain't going to say anything about more about it, about Lloyd. That's what heote, I'll tell you what. He's just what he was. I ain't going to say anything more about it. About Lloyd. That's what he said. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. He's a piece of shit.

I ain't going to say nothing more about it, which means he's a piece of shit. And you didn't hear that from me. But he is. I won't say it because I am a pious man. Yep. He also says that he sees no irony in the fact that he's been condemned to die, gotten two execution dates before him that got pushed back. And he is one of the only one of three people that out of that triad that's still alive because the Pope's dead. Carnahan died in a plane crash.

Wow. But Mies is still alive. Holy who would have fucking thought of that shit? Wait a minute is that mary mary who's carnahan mel carnahan oh yeah it was it was under governor the governor died in a plane crash yeah suspicious circumstances it's funny it's uh a lot of never i'm not gonna get into it but it's a couple uh you know well stones a few others uh anyway so uh john paul the second died in 2005 and they asked him about that. And what has Daryl said?

Quote, I'm younger than they are. So that is Reed Spring, Missouri. Wow. That is Daryl Meese and Lloyd Lawrence. And one of the fucking weirdest stories we've ever told, I think, there. I've never heard anything like that before. Right down to him predicting God will save him and then the Pope by hand. Literally did.

Like, I don't even know. That's never happened. Oh, by the way, that's the only time that a governor has ever listened to the Pope. Yeah. Because it's the only time where it was like right then and face to face and it was right about to happen. It's not six months from now where you could forget about it. Yeah. So this is the only time it's worked for the Pope.

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person in the movie from the first movie i think the same character is just different people no no no it's like two years later what it's just like the next generation like college yeah they're gone they're gone the new yeah they're the new seniors that's what it is talk about class of 67 greece also so not even greece like continuation so yeah check that out it's fucking ridiculous so do all of that. If you also want to follow us on social media, that's very easy to do. We're at murder small on Twitter at small town pot on Facebook and at small

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you just want to tell us about somethingail suggestions comments whatever you got here questions you just want to tell us about something you like about the show 602-759-0606 and uh if you want to be a hero to the show right very important a goddamn hero and be a hero to yourself because you're going to get so much bonus material yeah it's not even funny here so uh so much stuff this week we're going to watch the goodnight sugar babe documentary we're going to talk about that it's not even funny here so uh so much stuff this week we're going to watch the good night sugar babe documentary we're going to talk about that it's on amazon prime if you want to watch it yeah and wait for us to demoralize it oh yeah it's disgusting it's gross so we'll talk about that on uh for small town murder and then for the crime and sports bonus episode which you will

also get access to and the bonus episodes are never about sports or whatever it is about action park the crazy amusement park where everyone was injured back in New Jersey there in the 80s and 90s. There's a documentary that's very popular out right now. I read the book, and I grew up 50 miles from the place and have been there before. That park is the reason that anytime you've gone to a water park and you're like, this place is always built around fucking safety. It's boring. It's stupid. That's why.

Yeah, because that place was not. The other side is terrible. We'll talk all about that shit, and you can get all this and all of our back bonus episodes, so much stuff, so much extra material from us very easily at the $5 and above level at patreon.com slash crime and sports, or if you just want to make a one-time donation because you're a nice person and you go, you know what? These guys give me a lot of content and I'm going to throw a bucket or two at them. What the fuck?

And I'll get a shout out from Jimmy. You bet. And he'll mispronounce my name. You can do that very easily at PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at gmail.com. That's also a hell of a way to get a hold of the show if none of the other ways work for you. That said, you know what i need jimmy i do you need to give me these names beam them upon me tell me them like you're the pope commuting my sentence jesus brought them to me commute me jimmy hit me with them this week's

executive producers are pamela solig who donated both ways thank you so much pamela jesus thank you uh cara uh blatchick thankela. Yes, a new one. I think it's Blachick. I'm not good at this. Pamela Blachick? No, that's not it. Zach Charles, Nicole Breyer, Kurt Gammon, Sandra Lovejoy, Dalton Kocik, I think, Matt Wisher.

Nope, Lusher. Hey. I think it's Lusher. You're starting out with a bang here, Jimmy. I really am. Evan Shriver, Renai Degui, probably not, Tom Fairley, Jared Pitts, Jordan Bennett, Ellen Hodnett, Gabrielle Grant, Jackie Sukup, Leanne Hatch, Rob Lanto, Margaret McKenney, Joanne Ahern, Chrissy Ann Cristaldi, and Andrea Boyle.

Thank you, guys. Every weekend gets much more impressive. And I can't thank you guys enough for all of this stuff. Other producers this week are Tanya Craft. Hang in there. She's going through some shit. Oh, shit. Well, we're sorry to hear that.

It's health stuff, too. It's fucked up. Oh, no. Happy birthday, Toya Wayne Becker Corneato O'Brien. Holy shit, that's a name. All wrong. It's quite the handle, chief. And Krista Zachman's birthday is this week, too.

Ilya Wilmot, thank you very much. Other producers this week also are Matt Skinner, Lady of Law, S. Braswell, Travis Webb, Jonathan Gabor, Gabri, Gabri, oh boy, Bella Nightmare? No, that can't be right. Sarah with no last name. SJL LeBlond. Travis Davis. Justin Hoffey.

It's going well, everybody. Jordan Ashby. Haley Komen or Komen, like Omar, I guess. I don't want Komen. Emily Field. Jordan Ashby. I said that. C. Tuker.

Chantel Tuma. Brianna Bertrand. Trent Kruger. Samantha Patterson. Stephanie Fisher. Andrew, what is this? Celie Harris. Tasha Juruzitsky.

Andrew Hoskins. Kyle Berkley. Adida Sanchez. Samantha Ruiz. Earl. Nope. Earl. Earl Graves. Samantha Quattro, what the fuck, Quattro,

what did I do, Quattrocci? Quattrocci, okay. Yep, that's Italian, I'm sure. Rachel Kerr, Katie Miller, Kira Mahoney, Bradley Joe Waldrop, Tom Milligan, Kelsey Knapp, Becky, what did I, Amio? No, I apologize, Becky. again kelsey knapp becky what what did i amio no i apologize becky holly ward michael thomas nath nathaniel plas plas adrian doheny adam huritz like duritz jessica jenkins jodeo jdo jdo i don't know what i did i ruined somebody's name adrian goff or go not the first

time brady murphy sheree sandoval christian pierce amanda kent john mills damon rail uh christian kudahi no kudahi annalee or anally it can't be right m roberts sarah potter painter mike oh jesus mike shearer kaylee verhusen christy mcfarland uh hulk smash battle camp okay kevin huntington kieran uh what is the kieran mcguire gen uh jeanette throwberry throneberry cody crowder crowther shit right uh rita davis you're what uruguay no uh kaiser anthony amy beitch deitch what did i do steve tincredi uh matthew boland sarah hamilton the bolero family jesse speicher uh and what is that arthur deaton brandon greenbaugh, Greenhawk, Green what? Howlg, Adam Sorber, Dave Alexander. What is this? Kaylin Vanessa?

No. Anisa? Anisa. Not even close. Vanessa Rivera Fisher, Philip Smith, Corey Pritt, Warren Thompson, Amy Nesbitt Wright, Marco Parsons, GeekyNerd2000, Joseph Kitzberger, I think, Jake Dengler, God damn it, Michelle with no last name, Claire Downing, Rosie Marr, Mayor Jesperson, Velvet Heems, Heaps, fuck, what am I doing wrong?

Mark Hackett, Chandra Jenkins, Sean Duggan, Patience patience cole haley with no last name nathan schroeder taylor striegel striegel aaron nelson uh sharon sharon gabrian lisa watson corin nope yeah corin corin maniscalchi maniscalchi fuck what you're having problems ultimate what did i do hellcat the bond the bold see it's easy words and i can't even get lisa watson i said that staley sadler mendy schmidt brandon calvin uh emily shilper dot what shilper ort show fuck kelby houseman sean no sharon gabrian i said that that's why molly would know last name. Sarah Sparks. Chad Walker. Katie Andrade.

Andrade. Yeah. What? Stephanie Hicks. I talked myself out of them. Christian McCall. Georgia Mae Jankunis. Karenina.

Karenina Elza Doter. Alex Zanger. Kelly Evans. Jessica Merritt. Samuel Pickup. Travis Olumaba. What? Olumaba. What's that? Alex Zanger, Kelly Evans, Jessica Merritt, Samuel Pickup, Travis Olimbaugh, Nicole Rowling, Will with no last name. No, it didn't. Hugh Janus.

You got that right. That's not real. Chris with no last name. Kelly DeCalgany. And Adam. No. Adam Moody. It's getting so goddamn difficult.

Luann Holzenholzer. George Deck. Andrew Trimmer. Sarah Hargrove. Joanne Taylor. Dimitri. Nope. Datra.

Datra Walker. Jason Horvath. Thank you so much, Jason. He sent a nice email also. Asia with no last name. A-S-A. That's Asia, I believe. Yeah.

I think I pronounced it. I think it is. I think I got it. Samantha Sinander. Swander. Anthony Mora. Ada Kaziniak. Joseph Roadman.

Allison Fox. Steve Drake. Graham Linney. Ryan Hoff. Margaret Small. Ralph Williams. Stormy Sewell. Ash Mearns. man uh all uh allison fox steve drake graham linney ryan hoff margaret small ralph williams stormy sewell ash ash meerns nick poultry nope pulteney katherine furlong uh alexandra shank shane fuck marcos zoo uh zaz and zazaweda kevin kiak kayak kiak sandy this is a rough one i know Zaza Zaza Wada, Kevin Keok, Kayak, Sandy. This is a rough one. I know.

What did I? Paul Unwin, Ryan Foovers. You don't know what you're doing. Stephanie. No, Steffi Gillies. Joe Harris. Tone. Oh, it could be Tony.

Helen Sunjoy. Jenna. Jenna. Pridy. John Sanders. I think Hunter Powell. Caleb Spanx. Sparks. Sorry, Caleb. uh jenna jenna pridey john sanders i think hunter powell caleb spanks sparks sorry caleb gabby would know last oh gabby g lacey griffin galaxy story shelly beasley john jones laurie malcolm aaron smith michael richards jenna drescher fran's sister obviously barb flick

oh barb flick sent a nice email. Thank you so much, Barb. Dave Howard. Brock, what is this? Ambrose. Connor Sparkman. Natasha Spellmer. Semler. Hawkins.

Gary Berry. Brutal. Brendan Thatcher. Malik Pfister. Dave Buren. Kennedy Smith. Jacqueline Wright. Tige.

Or Tiga? Shornak? CGB. Stephanie Davies. Tamara Carpenter, Matt Houth, Parker Jeffrey, Nick with no last name, Selena Jones, Nate Stanford, Sanford, Tim Ibbitson, Brett with no last name, Sam with no last name, Lee Brown, Anna Lisa, Amanda staley i think jamie say fucking simon what simuka somoko i am so fucking illiterate emily uh shulk schlack schlacky schlake jenny uh jeanette and jeremy wheeler fuck it's even easy. Alexa Wright. Isabel with no last name. Neil Jones. Madeline Clark. Shel Wadgetus.

Amanda, I said that. Danielle Childs. Erica Popham. And Jim Kirk. Homestretch, I think. I think we're close. We're almost there. Look at you.

Listen, I need a breather. Rock it out. Nate Sanford, Aki P., David Whitson, Kirsten, and, oh, no, Kirsten, that's her last name, Tadeo, Tyler Drury, Alexis Suter, A. McCosh, Lily Lansbury, Jeff Evans, Jess Evans, I'm sorry, Jess, Samantha Berg, Nathan Blue, Michael DeSanto, Amanda Jacobs, Marcelo, landsbury jeff evans jess evans i'm sorry jess samantha berg uh nathan blue michaels desanto amanda jacobs marcella fletcher bob daly lee last zachary benjamin anthony dawson jabari lawrence jess childers timothy simmons uh taylor nicole dun what is this? Duncaccino, 48. J.R. Brown. Yeah.

Sarah with no last name. Zach Conley. Zoe with no last name. Amber Crowell-Fuerst. Everest. I don't know what I did. Erica Brundridge. Brundidge.

Melody Nguyen. Rebecca with no last name. Edsel Paz. Ronnie Porter. Andrea with no last name. Kinsley Weir. Aaron Blumel. Daniel Boda, Ryan would know last name, Tua Tagovialano, Elke would know last name or just Elk, Ryan Grange, Tamara Viana, God damn it, Daniel Boda, I said that. Ronnie Loves the U, I guess. Aaron. Sure.

I think it's a last name. Oh. Miami? I don't know. It's definitely that. Aaron Rigby. Lisa Matonis. Sean Gardner.

Chad Werning. Melanie Walsh. Or Wyich. I don't know what I did. Ronnie Rannell. Kim Shang. Andre. What is that? Is that Andre W., or is that Andrew?

Belvin? Fuck. I don't know what I did. I'm sorry, Andre or Andrew. Amanda Knoften, Alicia Johnson, Megan Stewart, Delaina Viola, Daryl Abraham, Nicole Smith, Nick Ahrens, Tara Ann Jarrett, Bethany Sarah, or is it Bethany Ann Sarah? Kristen Rose, Xenia Warren, Holly Fowler, Lauren Rodriguez, Taylor Bean, Crystal Oliver, Jim Lee, Christina Lee, Lee Dooley, Lauren Ingle.

What is this? Saz Sova? I'm so bad at this. Lynn McDonald, Cade Bednerchik, Therese F., Sherry Gillowich, Nina Seplak, Angela Wallace, Dalton Chandler, Jen McCauley, Blanca Fuentes, Cody Goudorf, Holly, no, that's Haley, Pritchett, Prickett, I don't know, Heather Klinger, Ricky Bolig, Bolin, Michelle Butts, S.B., Sean Darnell, Danielle Sibisky, Sarah Pauley, Abe with no last name, Darla Derrick, Wayne Bond, Lance Paniccia, Chris Michelle, Michael, Wayne Bond, Faith Kritzel, Daria, nope, that's Darla, Derrick, Bailey Elizabeth, Tonto with no last name, Kathy Heffelfinger, Amanda Boeing, Brent Morgan, John Osho, Osho, fuck, William Beetz, Taylor Elliott.

I think that's right. Megan McDermott, James Asselta, Ethan, Ethan Hunt, Karen Rosier, Autumn Uplinger, Katarzyna Niedzuka. Yeah, it's not close. She knows her name is brutal for me. Melinda Vellman, Aurora Davis, Nick Walters, Crystal Walker, Andrea Smith, Jordan would know last name, Jordan Taylor, Paige Snyder, Aaron would know last name, Charlie H., Jessica Walker, Josh Cole, Ricardo Yarmio, and it's his wife, Senorita Melanie's birthday.

Happy birthday. Wow, happy birthday, Santa Rita. Jen's, Peter, Axel, Freeze, and Sarah, nope, Savannah, Kirtley, Sharon Lacey, Lauren Maloney, Ricardo,

I said that, Brendan Ables, Samuel Seferin, Serafino. Our man, Brendan Ables. He's a good dude. He's around every week.

I love him. And Ashley Vio, too. Thank you guys so much. And Jordan Bennett, and all of them. Christiane, Mark,

Liz Vasquez. We love all you guys. God damn it. Cassandra Clark, thank you so much for the email also. Appreciate you. Thomas Smith, Callum Malice, Senna, what the fuck did I do? SennaLiza Wee, Nintini? That can't be right.

I apologize. I'm sure it's an amazing name. I'm sure it means something fantastic, too. William Bordwell, John DeLong, Georgette King, Peyton Meadows, Stephanie Agoa, Amelia Simmons, Joshua Reyes, Isabel Gill, I think,

James Marder, Tommy Yakey, Kelly Higby, Laura Looney, Leah Gavin, Travis Marshall, Brittany Hughes, Janice Hill, Nikki Lundquist, and Jessica Merritt. And obviously all of our patron donors. You guys are incredible.

Thank you. Thank you, everybody, so, so, so, so much for everything you do for us, for all you Patreon subscribers, all the PayPal people, all the people that support us in every single way. We cannot wait to see you guys at live shows next year again at some point. We were excited. We miss you guys, basically. We want to see you again point we're just we were excited we miss you guys basically we want to see you again jimmy what if they miss you how could they tell you about it

uh you guys know where that is but there's um not to put a spotlight on me but three more people eric bogan tanya joan oh yeah and uh lauren whitworth birthday happy birthday lauren and that ellen fizakerly had a baby uh late shout-outs getting in here. I don't know why you would, but congratulations. Congrats. Late shouts. Where can they find you? I'm around. I don't know. You know how to find me there.

Ask Jesus. You copy and paste my name so you don't misspell it. That's my only suggestion for you. And then you'll probably find me somewhere. I'm the one who's not the lawyer in Pittsburgh. So, yeah, there you go. You're the one with the blue checkmark. Yeah, I'm the guy with the blue checkmark.

He probably doesn't have one, right? I don't think so. He's a very prominent attorney. Yeah, there you go. You're the one with the blue checkmark. Yeah, I'm the guy with the blue checkmark. I don't think so. He's a very prominent attorney, but I'm an asshole who makes dick jokes about murder, and I have one, so take that, motherfucker. That said, let's come back and keep coming back and having fun each and every time. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can

listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.