Small Town Murder - #190 - We Will Dig Up That Basement! in Vinton, Virginia

Episode Date: September 24, 2020

This week, in Vinton, Virginia, a smoldering home reveals a family, who all died, well before any fire started. Who could have done this? Angry drug dealers? Police conspiracy? Trusted family friend? And why? The answer to that is a little more complicated & disturbing. On top of all that, there is a walled off, secret basement tomb that needs to be excavated!! Along the way, we find out that a steak festival sounds wonderful, that you shouldn't record all of your criminal thoughts for police to find, and that a little bit of DNA evidence means a lot more than 100 wacky theories & lies!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Vinton, Virginia, what at first appears to be a murder-suicide gets much more complicated when it's determined to be 100% murder, but that door just leads to more dark hallways. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. We are very excited. We've had quite a run lately. It's's been fun of absolute insanity and weird shows this case today was one where i'm like i

found it and i'm like this is pretty straightforward we're gonna like you know we've been really going through a lot of snow and i'm like this is gonna be straightforward it's crazy and weird but at least it's straightforward and then no it's not as we'll get into'll get into. There's so much more where I'm like, yay. And then I'm like, shit, this is going to, then I have to look at all this. But it's okay because once it's all together, it's all for you. And you're going to love it, everybody,

I'm telling you right now. Thank you for everything this week. If you haven't yet, please help out the show. Give us five stars on Apple Podcasts, that purple icon. We don't know why. We don't know why that helps, but it helps drive us up the charts. So you know what? Be a good person out there. It'ss. That purple icon. We don't know why. No. We don't know why that helps, but it helps drive us up the charts.

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with the date is the thursday the 29th of october right before halloween so it'll be good and creepy but we're not we're going to do it's going good and gross it's going to be the the all violent felon edition of the prisoner dating game and doing a virtual live show so you can see all these people you can see jimmy's reaction when i tell him what they did after he chose them more information on that coming very very shortly here uh we swear and uh also if you want to be a producer of the show and you know what one of our heroes one of our good friends who we love you can do that very easily by going to patreon.com slash crime and sports and we have tons of bonus stuff right last week was

the white trash defense of phillips oklahoma we got into it and found the source material that they based it on and uh it wasn't so much making fun of them as making fun of this person for using this as a defense of some kind it's pretty hilarious so check that out and crazy personal ads on the crime and sports one you get access to all of that stuff of anybody at the five dollar level once again patreon.com slash crime and sports if you just want to be a good person one of our really heroes because you're just all you're getting is a shout out jimmy's gonna mispronounce your name at the end of the show you can go over to paypal make a donation there using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com quickly the disclaimer right it's a comedy show it is this

is a comedy show we're gonna make fun of things we're gonna make fun of small towns we're gonna make fun of like a police force that lets somebody go free for 20 years things like that festivals the festivals bands we've never heard of playing at a small town festival in a park somewhere that sort of thing and the small towns look everybody's from a small town everybody's from somewhere that sucks you can't tell me that there is a small town in this country that cannot be made fun of i know where i'm from we make fun of it like crazy where you're from you make fun of it like crazy where we live now we all make fun of it like crazy so relax we all do it we all make fun of it everything sucks it's

we're roasting towns that's the point we're roasting it It's like if you go to a Don Rickles show in 1975, you're not like, I don't enjoy that. He called me a hockey puck. You know, it's fun. We're having a good time here. And we, you know, there's murder. There is murder. The show's called Small Town Murder, but trying to make a little bit of light around it just so it's not so dark and so just heavy on the whole thing.

I mean, there is gross stuff that happens. We're going to make fun of a lot of other stuff. We're going to go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why is that, Jimmy? I would like to know. Because we're assholes. But we're not scumbags. There you have it.

That's how it works. So if that sounds good to you, oh my goodness, are we going to have a good goddamn time. If you don't think that's good and you don't think that's bad, true crime and comedy should never go together, maybe don't listen. It's not for you. Or maybe give it a shot and it's not so bad but if you're ready for it i think it's time to sit back and clear the lungs and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy all right let's go on a trip yeah we're coming from the west last week in the mountains in utah that's right holiday and also phoenix and also Phoenix. We mocked Phoenix unmercifully. That was an unbelievable story.

That was wild. We got away with it for so long. That's what's crazy about it. Well, this is even kind of weirder in a way here. We're going to Vinton, Virginia. It's central, kind of western Virginia, just outside Roanoke. It's like a suburb of Roanoke.

It's about three hours to Richmond, about two hours and 15 minutes to Edinburgh, Virginia, which was the Sun Powered Killer episode, our last episode there. How long ago was that? A little over a year ago. My word. Yeah, it was a while ago. We're coming back, making a swing back through Virginia here.

This is in Roanoke County, area code 540. It's three square miles, the whole town. town it's a small town kind of like i said in a burb yeah now the motto here i'm going to talk about this because virginia their motto is virginia is for lovers yeah okay which is ridiculous number one now there this town's motto when coupled with that really makes it strange because Virginia is for lovers and then this town's motto is, are you in? Yet. Dot, dot, dot. Ouch, not there. Wrong hole. What the hell?

What are we talking about? Are you in? Jesus Christ. Is that real? That's real. Are you in? Are you in? They can't do that. Virginia is for lovers. Is it in yet? Stick it in me. What are we talking about? Who came first there? That's gross. Does it matter? Does it in me what are we talking about who came first there oh that's gross does it matter does it matter who came first either way you'd go well we can't do that because they're

doing that right you know i don't care for the state the town no someone's got a somebody made a bad choice yeah i think both made a bad choice that's what i mean either one is bad yeah i guess virginia's for lovers are trying to always, because on the East Coast, they play the commercials all the time. Like in New York, they're trying to get people to go there on vacation. In New York, you're always like, what are they going there for? Come down here and fuck. Is that what they're saying?

That's what they're saying, basically. It's like, no, you're going to either go up to the mountains, or you're going to go all the way down to the Florida or the beach or somewhere like that. Stop in the middle and ruin a hotel. Stop in the middle of where everything's landlocked, except for Virginia Beach. That's the middle and ruin a hotel. Stop in the middle of a, you know, where everything's landlocked except for Virginia Beach. That's the only place it's not. Come on over and be gross here. Be gross here.

Why not? Hey, everybody. Leave your used condoms strewn throughout our streets for our children to find. Drive to Florida and stop here on the first night. That's right. Be disgusting. Defile our hotels and then we'll wave you away. Bye.

We encourage it. Are you in? Okay. What the fuck, Virginia? I don't know what's happening with Virginia, man. So, Vinton, this town was made, incorporated by the virginia general assembly in march of 1884 they had a population of 584 and then it really kind of blew up from there and started going quickly uh it's everything here kind of has to do with roanoke because it's right outside of a city

so it's kind of the all the everybody kind of does all their things in roanoke and shit like that capital yes uh roanoke virginia yes yes so um the uh the farmland was made available for development after that as much of this was farmland and then also kind of land speculation started happening where people were buying up large swats and trying to do some real estate stuff here with the woods yeah i love when they do that. Places that are like, well, you could just build anywhere around here. Phoenix will do that. I bought this big swath of desert.

Great. Of course you did. And what's the difference between that desert and the desert over there? It's the same. It's just flat dirt that's hard and has dust blowing. Oh, yours is slightly less. It's slightly a different shade of tan than that dirt. Terrific.

You ever drive between Flagstaff and Phoenix? There's so much area that they could have put Phoenix that is so much nicer. You could just put stuff out there. No one would even notice it for a while. You could live there for 10 years and they'd be like, when the fuck did this is my property? When this house goes? There's nothing out there.

No one would notice. There's so much room and there's so much better. I don't know how they landed here and were like, fucking yeah. The mountains were there and they were like, well, we can't possibly make trails all through that. It's going to be difficult. Lazy bastards. Figure out asphalt earlier, dicks. I live in a fucking sun bowl.

What is happening? Could be living on a mountain. Yeah. Looking down on this shit hole going, man, it looks hot down there. Yeah, it does. People are cooking down there. So so much better up here holy fuck oh so uh whoever did it you're an asshole yeah thanks a lot to me and you're dumb so apparently money would come and go quickly here because these people would dump like the land was going up and down in value of the speculative market and people were like

coming with a shitload of money buying all this land and then it'd be worthless in two months and they'd be broke yeah and then someone else who got land when it was nothing because their grandfather owned it and now they have it and they're rich for some reason it's it's a disaster so land and housing costs ended up going down and down and down after a while and many of the people who ended up purchasing here were employees of the norfolk and western railway railway company and that was kind of this is the time when i guess vinton had a reputation as like a blue collar town they call it a working man's town like around there like people lived here and there but that's kind of if you were

like a rail guy or like an iron worker or something. You lived in Vinton. Okay. It's like Pittsburgh. Got it. Yeah, the Pittsburgh, Virginia. Got it. We got here.

Miniature Pittsburgh without all the fucking bridges. No, they don't have individual bridges there, which is good. So it's kind of changed. This change comes slow in this area. Yeah. By the way, Virginia actually in certain places virginia is not like it's not behind at all virginia when you think of virginia like there's the rural areas and then the cities are like cooking like there's stuff going on there it's

they should make west virginia change their name that's what they really should if i'm virginia i'm suing yeah i'm just suing like i'm I'm sorry. This is bad. It's bad for my... You're ruining us. We're telling people it's for lovers. For Christ's sake. Look at this shit. You're producing that? Who wants to fuck with Mamie White hanging around with Kirk doing lines off the back

of a toilet? That's not romantic. We can't have this. People confuse. Yeah. It's no good. They figure there's just a bunch of Sue Bob with the titties running around here. I'm the sexiest in the Watt family.

I'll make the boo-koos and boo-koos. I used to make $3,000 and not stripping. Oh, okay. I think she meant pesos. I think she meant fucking cents. Right. I used to make 3,000 cents and not stripping. That's how the people pay me in pennies.

You know when people snap their fingers and shoot it, that's how they send them to me. I get solid copper dollars. I got a lot of scars on my forehead from that. People are good aim down here, I'll tell you what. I get these Abraham Lincoln copper dollars. 3,000 of them a night. I'm a rich woman.

So in 1970, a lot of industry started coming. And in 1917, the American Viscose plant opened near Vinton. And that was a lot of jobs. Yeah, Viscose. That sounds disgusting. That's a terrible named business. I don't care what it is. It sounds like an oil additive because I hear viscosity in that. So it sounds like something slimy that's added to something not slimy enough.

Or it's something edible that just gives heart attacks. Oh, that might be it, too. Yeah. It could be like they're making country crock over there. Right. Before margarine came out, we would smear viscous on the bread. We'd smear viscose made at the plant. There's a viscose.

Is it a viscose on toast? You never had that? You never had viscose? Viscoast, we called it back in the day. It was good. Boy, you put a little scrapple on it, you got something else there, boy. Oh, God. Jesus Christ, that's disgusting.

That's disgusting. That's awful. Also, Burlington Mills, now known as Precision Fabrics Group, was established in 1936. There was a mill here as well that was refurbished over time. So it became like a real blue collar. You could find a job in a factory type of place. You know, if you had a, you know, you graduated from high school or had a GED or something, you can go there and make like a living wage. Right. And so it's a it was a different time you know when you could do that trade work it's trade work yeah up until the 70s people would do they get out of high school go work at a steel mill and make like an adult salary and they were 75 grand a year and they're

like 18 they were in high school two weeks ago and they're making like a like a what people have kids and shit and like a car and vacations on. You're like, what the shit? So I found, oh, the Vinton Fuel Company is another place that was here, which you obviously want to have a fuel company in town. That's helpful. That's helpful. So I found some reviews of this place,

and they're varying, we'll say. There's definitely a difference of opinion on this town or all around it. So here is one. It's a three-star, and it's telling us, quote, Vinton is a cute small town in Virginia inside of Roanoke County. The school in Vinton's William Bird

High, the school in, I guess in Vinton is, William Bird High in the middle school along with two elementary schools. Thanks for the rundown of schools. Jesus Christ. W.E. Cundiff and Herman L. Horn. Oh, those are the elementary schools. Vinton doesn't have much, but there is still stuff to do.

It's a very friendly area and has a bunch of cute festivals and good places to eat. What's with all the cute? You know we're going to talk about the cute festivals. Here's one. They don't quite agree. No? Two stars. Quote, outdated and snobby.

Very little to do and very few opportunities. Most of the people here are also incredibly small minded. Okay. And then I found a one star. This person really doesn't like this fucking place. I love these. I think I wrote this from a small town. One star, quote, streets are very littered.

Homeowners have no obligation to keep property up taxes are over the top no quiet zones in the library panhandlers at the shopping center trash cans left on the street oh is this like a this is like series of haikus what the fuck are we doing trash cans left on the street all week long yeah all week long jimmy they're leaving them out there can you believe it yeah a trash can on the street trash doesn't belong oh wait no you gotta tuck that away yeah hide it yeah until the trash man comes you gotta bring it three feet into the inside of your yard this person would really love an hoa it sounds like they're about to start one i'm telling you here um Also, I would say,

trash cans left on the street all week long. Water bills, very unfair to single person. Water bills. Everything from no quiet zones in the library to the water bills are unfair. This person's really studied this. What is he talking about? Every library is, the whole library's a

quiet zone. Apparently not now. Marching band walking through? Apparently now most libraries are 75% library flow chart the whole library's a quiet zone apparently not now apparently it's a marching band walking through apparently now most libraries are 75 homeless masturbatory centers and then 25 quiet zone and they're saying this one is 100 homeless masturbatory so it's different i guess i don't know virginia's for lovers and our hotels are all full so we just let them stop in the library now virginia's for lovers but the hotels are all full, so we just let them stop in the library now. Virginia's for lovers, but the library's for jerking. That's how it goes now.

Jesus. Okay. On street parking on very narrow streets. That's ridiculous. This town is going downhill. Property values are not so good. Leaving is hard. Once it was a nice town.

So apparently it's gone to real shit it's falling apart that was 2019 that was the most recent of the reviews that's that's all your complaints that's the complaints that's it go to the south side of chicago yeah how much you like virginia town sucks tell you what i don't know yeah go to some places that are tough go to like you know go see where fucking violence is happening. Go to like Brazil or something. Right. There's some bad stuff going on.

I'm just thinking of a tougher area of the U.S. Oh, just a tougher than that. Yeah. So this town has steadily increased population from 1960 to 1980. It basically tripled in population. So it's somehow, I guess, suburban times. That's when people were leaving cities in the 60s. People right now, population, 8,069 people.

So not a big town, not a small, little tiny, tiny town, just kind of right in the middle. Up 5% since 1990. Male, females, about right, kind of normal. Median age is just about right. It's about 38. But there is a shitload of old people here. There is a lot. 38 but there is a shitload of old people here really there's a lot uh way more 75 to 84 year old people and twice the amount of 85 and over people as normal okay so it is just they just

like make a make a life for themselves and they don't want to leave or are they moving i think no i think this is they're not leaving this is old people that are staying and there's a bunch of kids there too that kind of balance it out young people and old people like we've had this before i don't know if the elderly people are having the babies yeah if they are virginia is definitely for lovers a bunch of it's a bunch of jack nicholson from as good as it gets that just don't like change yeah that's probably what probably true it is here so uh it's about 50 50 on the married like usual most of the stats are pretty kind of normal to small towns uh There's more single people with children. Other than that, though, it's pretty normal because there's a higher divorce rate for some reason here.

Race of this town, 85% white, 6% black, which is about half the normal in the country. What do we have here? 0. Oh, no. 4.4% Asian. Yeah. So almost the average. And then 2.7% Hispanic, which is pretty low.

It's normally 17.5%. Yeah. Very low, especially if you live in Phoenix. You're like, huh? What? That's weird. Not a single Filo Berto's. No.

Excuse me. Where is your Filo Berto's? Which is a little like kind of a stand. It's clearly a money laundering outfit. It's got to be. It's with delicious burritos unbelievable it's this little like hut that you do that they have five million of in phoenix and you drive either drive up or walk up to the window and you can sit at a table outside whichever you're

equipped with yeah a couple of a car couple of them have chairs and they all any anyone that you can go inside they all have that that bubbler thing going with different fluorescent. A red, white, and a brown. And a brown, and a pale pink. You're like, is that like watermelon semen? What's in that? That's disgusting. It's too cloudy pink.

If you do happen to go inside and get food and sit down, you will not see a soul until you leave. And then another person will go through the drive-thru. How do you stay open with no business? Because we're not there at three in the morning. you will not see a soul until you leave and then another person will go through drive-thru how do you stay open i don't know no business because we're not there at three in the morning that's why drunk people roll three in the morning it's blinds to the fucking end trust me i've been there three in the morning their their fucking dinner rush is three to five a.m pretty much yeah no it is seriously like 2 a.m like phoenix the bars close at 2 2. By 2.15, you can't get a carne asada burrito in this town. You'll be online for 45 minutes.

It's a mess, dude. So 39% religious in this town, which is actually low for the South and just for kind of small towns in general. It's 13% Baptist. Baptists are the Catholics of the South. You're going to get more of those. A few Methodists in there, a couple of Catholics, a Lutheran here and there. 0.0% Jewish. So none ofutheran here and there 0.0 percent

jewish so none of that happening here 0.0 percent islam as well nothing going on there real christian quilt yeah there's it's a it's a it's a quilt of similar denominations put it that way so uh jesus tapestry it's a it's a virtual tapestry of jesus So in this county, last election, 33% Democrat, 61% Republican, 5% Independent. Unemployment rate here, well, we don't know now, but in January of this year, it was 2.6%. Household income's a little bit low. Normally, it's about almost $58,000 in the rest of the country. Here, it's $44,389. Little bit low, but cost of almost 58 000 in the rest of the country here it's 44 389 dollars okay little bit low but cost of living isn't very high either so kind of makes up for it cost of living

in vinton 100 is you know average regular par here it is uh 88 but the housing is a 70 great so it's pretty low median home cost 163 200 bucks Oh, yes. And most of the houses are between $100,000 and $200,000. All right. And like we'll see here, you can get a decent house here. You know what? If we've convinced you, damn it, you have no other choice. You have to see exactly why Virginia is for lovers. Get over here.

We have for you the Vinton, Virginia Real Estate Report. Virginia real estate report. The average two bedroom rental in this joint here, it's about 770 bucks a month, which is well below the national average. That's awesome. That's great. It's almost 1300 nationally. So that's really good. Renting might be the way to go.

But I found some houses here. I found a two bedroom, one bath, but it's a 1268 square foot house. Okay. And it's a little murdery. I found a two-bedroom, one-bath, but it's a 1,268-square-foot house. Okay. And it's a little murdery. I'm not going to lie to you. It's a little, I would expect if you were looking through it, like if a real estate agent took you there and she was like, no one's been here in a while, and cracked the door and it creaked open, there would be bodies.

Yeah. Or at least chalk outlines of where bodies once were. But for $70,900, what do you want? I'll drag them out. I was going to say, either do that that you can wash off the chalk you know what i'm saying i found a three bedroom two bath 1708 square foot house it's really nice has an in-ground pool yeah you know the whole deal like a nice family house about 163 500 bucks like exactly at the average of it so that's your average home that's awesome it's your average home. That's awesome. It's not too bad at all.

Then, let's say you want to stretch out a little. Maybe you own all the viscose in town. Hell yeah. You've been distributing it. I have a four-bedroom, four-bath, T-ball for every B-hole. Yes, sir. That's right. 2,552-square-foot house.

Very nice, open, big old porch out front. I want it. One and a half acres. Yeah. $315,000. Very nice. Open. Big old porch out front. I want it. One and a half acres. Yeah. $315,000. Oh, my God. And it's beautiful inside, too. It's remodeled.

It sounds amazing. It's really nice. Yeah, you can get a real nice place here for a real reasonable price. Holy shit. Compared to the rest of the country. 300 grand will get you a flophouse in Phoenix. Oh, yeah. You're getting garbage.

It's either in Phoenix proper and it's a piece of shit. It's in a neighborhood where you're like, those are gunshots, right? And then I heard screaming after the gun, not just distant gunshots. Somebody said call 911. It's like my old neighborhood that I lived in, where it was down the street from a methadone clinic. And it was just, it was fucking wild. Oh, boy, I'm telling you. It was something else.

It was a nice place. the house wasn't bad but that wasn't the point where it was it was like why is this house here because the house wasn't great but it wasn't terrible it was like a nice little house yeah and it was for some reason in a fucking awful area so very very scary so uh but this here i don't know uh now 315 though that's that's really good for that's doing an acre and a half yeah that's the thing like the house itself is nice but then an acre and a half you can stretch out you don't have to see your neighbors that's beautiful that's a selling point for me right there absolutely it's nice things to do here oh boy i found the vinton fall festival oh oh yeah

oh we know it uh this has been going on since 2001, and I'll tell you, they upped it a little bit in 2019. But normally, it's activities throughout the day. They include a 5K run. I love a 5K run. That's not fun. No one wants to do that. Okay, I get that you're raising money. Why don't we all just go?

Can we all just pitch in five bucks, and then we'll do something else? We don't all have to fucking run? Why are we going through this motion if we don't all have to fucking run are we going through this motion if we're just doing it to give money to these people why you know we were gonna pay 25 and run let's pay five dollars not run and everybody pulls 20 bucks and we get a pizza party that's it let's do that we'll throw these people a pizza party they probably appreciate it more than watching us run that sounds terrible having like that sounds terrible. Having like, that sounds terrible. I did one of those in Texas. Yeah, yeah. And it was awful.

Yeah. A bunch of 55-year-old guys dropped dead of heart attacks along the way. We don't need that shit. Race. They have crafters and a business showcase. Concession and food vendors. Agricultural judging. Oh.

They'll judge your agriculture. I don't like that at all. Your fields are awful, sir. Sir. Call this lettuce and they kick it. No good. Your corn. I spit on your agriculture. I don't like that at all. Your fields are awful, sir. Sir? Call this lettuce and they kick it. No good. Your corn? I spit on your corn.

And they throw it to the ground. Your asparagus makes me want to throw up. Stomping your pumpkins. Your rutabagas can suck my dick. You suck. Lots of children's activities, like judging things. Carriage rides, a doggy dress-up contest. Oh, no.

I mean, I'm good with a dog parade. Let's do that. Not a dress-up. They're all miserable. Aren't they cute? Let's torture a bunch of animals for no reason. Oh, he's a sailor. Is this for charity?

Can we just chip in on this, too? What if we chip in to have you not do this to your fucking poor animal? Please, I'll tell you what. We'll give you all the money from the 5K if you don't do this to your animal here. Now, they teamed up in 2019 with the Big Lick Oktoberfest, which seems like these two would not go together, but they do. Now they have a shitload of beer and bands and all sorts of other stuff, too, mixed in with a doggy dress-up. Yeah, Big Lick Ok lick october fest oh like a lick of a guitar yeah and then yeah i

think so or it's for lovers so who knows get over here no idea at this point they also have stilt walkers oh no i would love to see one of those guys fall i'm sorry i know that's mean but that's one of those things where you're like come on fall is it me come on and fall you just want to see it just because it's like i don't know you're tempting gravity i didn't do this i didn't prop you right 30 feet off the goddamn ground and they look like anything like out of the way i could fall at any moment you're like why are you doing this stable they don't look like happy no they don't look like they're having a good time doing it you know i stole my friend's uh uh crutches and stood on the the handle part of it and walked on those and fell on my ass and that hurt yeah i want to see a guy fucking 15 feet up

fall 15 shit they're higher than that a lot of times yeah that's dangerous that's horrifying so uh there's that let's see german music by the wanders man band no as well as classic bluegrass by wound tight one word wound tight all right i'm on that said southern yeah and of course german style beer alongside dozens of amazing vendors and exhibitors games and more with the vinton fall festival oh boy there's gonna be a kid's zone kids everyone's shit face now you gotta stay in this zone this used to be a lot for you but now it's now it's mainly this zone where we're gonna keep you here this is for you the on the farmer stage market wandersman plays from 11 to noon geez that's a tough it's a rough set wound tight comes on 12 to 145 and they do it again two sets each two sets each from 11 to 4 this last good christ

playing a matinee show yeah and then i found the virginia steak festival which is exactly what it sounds like great it sounds awesome yeah it's just a festival you pay like 40 bucks to get in or something and then you just eat steak like a fucking monster you walk around it's just vendors having steak in different ways and a steak sandwich and it places a steak like this and it you just eat steak like a fucking monster you walk around it's just vendors having steak in different ways and a steak sandwich and it places a steak like this and it's just meat nobody tell my doctor i want that so bad i would love a steak festival that sounds guys read that i'm like steak festival it's probably not that and then i looked at him like oh my god it's exactly what i hoped it was it's just steak it's not like a vampire festival and there's not even bands it's just steak oh they're just coming not you're gonna be too full to listen

to music you ain't gonna be dancing with all that steak in your stomach i'll tell you what boy you're gonna i don't want you to throw up listening to that horseshit music and waste all this steak you like it start bouncing you're gonna be puking steak all over the place we ain't got that kind of cleaning materials so i ain't gonna do it now crime rate in this town, what we're interested in, of course, the property crime is a little bit high. It's like maybe 10% over, but nothing crazy. It's in the realm of normal. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault.

The Mount Rushmore of crime is about 20% under the national average. So that's not bad. A lot of these small towns, we kind of see more property crime, less violent crime. But there has been some violent crime. And speaking of that, let's talk about a murder. Great. Let's do this because, wow, is this a... I don't even know what to tell you here.

This is wild. Like I said, this was one that I'm like, oh, cool, straightforward. Nope. This is fucking insane. Great. So buckle up everybody let's do this shit go back in time time machine time jimmy let's do it we're going all the way back to 1994 oh oh yeah jimmy's like that's a good time for me that was good you're getting caught stealing video games just yeah it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid

we're your hosts i'm alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a

liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a little bit of cursing. This motherfucker lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes,

you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Listening to... What are you listening to right now? That was me skipping...

Jesus, there was probably a lot of... A lot of Boyz II Men. You were listening to Boyz II Men? Whatever was on the radio. Bone Thugs was playing. What I liked... I looked up the songs from that just to see like 94

and like the top songs were like, you know, fucking Ace of Base. Really? Oh yeah, The Sign was big. Yeah, I guess I heard that on the radio too. Shit like that.

Yeah, Boys to Men had the song. Yeah. Yeah. Belvedere Devoe was around then too? They were done by then. Were they done?

Yeah, that shit was like 91. Oh, shit. That girl is funny. Right. It was like 91. But after that, I don't know. Did they get, was it when they started to shit that girl that's funny right it was like 91 but after that did they get did was it when they started to fall off that's when they got those abc kids in remember those the little boys that were basically yeah yeah yeah no i guess i was like 90 those really came around i fuck man i don't even know what i would have been it probably would have been

i would have been in hip-hop at this time definitely oh god this was after wu-tang and naz first album came out and biggie's first album just came metallica just came out in 94 uh black black was 90 was it 90 black was because that was yeah yeah 90 91 was for no black album really yeah yeah you were lost how much how many drugs did you do during this time? You were like 11, 13 years old. What kind of drugs were you doing? Listen, this is... I was doing drugs. Yeah, but this is shortly after also.

This is just a three-year gap between a really horrible experience in my life. That's true. This might be cloudy. Yeah, my brain was certainly trying to compress memories at this point. Well, it is because you just named a bunch of things that happened in 1991 three years before this and you were like yeah that's 94 right you got like stuck in a night timelines fucked around now we know it's wrong from 91 to like 95 ish it was fucked it's pretty bad it's pretty ugly are you for what year is it right now jimmy is it 2017 and that's honest like i will look at things

oh i have yeah that i that i that i want to buy or whatever and and it's like came out in 2012 and i'm like oh that's not so holy shit that's damn near 10 years old i don't want that i think that has to do with trauma as much as you're just getting old now and so i think it's less to do with trauma and more to do with whoa boy how old am how old am I? Fuck, what year is this? Jesus. Jesus. This sucks. I just saw a show the other day. The guy's like, I'm pushing 40.

And I was like, old fuck. Jesus. Oh, no. God damn it. That's like six months away. So am I. Me too. That's god awful.

Jesus. And then you looked in the mirror. Oh, staring right back at me. Where'd my hair go? What's this in my shirt? Oh, there's my hair i found it it's on my back those glasses are awfully thick sir fuck man so this murder here we're going back in time to 1994 as we've explained let's talk about the hodges family okay all right let's talk about this family. Kind of your, kind of a typical all-American family

in this little, kind of all-American little town. Just one of those deals. William Blaine Hodges is the husband and father. Everybody calls him Blaine. That's not,

you never hear a William. That's just, you know, when you see it printed. So, Blaine Hodges, he's 41 years old in 1994. Yeah. He's married to a lady named Teresa. Okay. And she is 37 years old. Attaboy. There you go. A couple years old in 1994. He's married to a lady named Teresa, and she is 37 years old.

Attaboy. There you go. A couple of years younger. And they have two daughters as well. And their names are Winter, who is 11 years old, and Anna, spelled with an H on the end. And a H is three years old at the time. So nice little family living in a nice little suburb and i'm sure seeming to have a decent life that they're happy with for the most part yeah there's a couple of

pickups that we'll talk about now uh they're they meet a man and they befriend a man who ends up kind of hanging out and being like a family friend okay this guy is blaine met him in high school not as a friend blaine was on the track team he was like one of the stars of the track team and one of his coaches is he ends up being tight with later on and he hangs out with the family and this is a guy named earl conrad bramblitt okay earl bramblitt he's older of course he's a coach a coach. So, yeah, they met through the coaching process, and they became friends, basically. Now, Earl's kind of had an interesting life. His family moved around a lot.

His dad was an alcoholic, so they were kind of nomadic, and you know how it goes. Unreliable. Yeah. Lose a job, move to another town, get another job. You know, you go to a lot of elementary schools. Yeah. I've seen it a few times. I've been there. Went to a job, move to another town, get another job. You know, you go to a lot of elementary schools. Yeah. I've seen it a few times. I've been there.

Went to a lot of schools. So it was his. But the interesting part of it is for him, the effect it had on him was that it made him very quick to make friends and shit like that. Sure. There's certain things you pick up as you go to different places. Special new kid. Yeah.

You pick up being funny. And that's that's the only reason I have a sense of humor is I think because you have to because what else do you do? You can either start punching people or be funny, you know? So, you know, whatever. He changed schools all the time. And he was also a very good athlete, Earl, which would also help in school. If somebody's, you could not know them and you'd be like, oh, he's good at kickball and

he's your buddy now. Right. Because he's good at kickball. Or he's good at anything and we want him on our team exactly so you want to hang out with him so uh you know friends he you know he makes friends in high school he's not a guy who doesn't have friends he's not like a loner or anything like that he has a bunch of friends he stays in touch with people from high school later on he can maintain relationships and stuff so you know he's not like anybody that you'd be like oh red flags here socially he's figuring it out yeah he's fine you know what i mean he's he's absolutely fine um he uh he does have problems obviously because of his family being poor and shit like

that and kind of a little bit of a mess yeah he ends up dropping out of college in california he's born in south carolina his family moves all over the country after work and things like that. They end up in California where he goes to college, but he drops out and ends up moving to Roanoke, Virginia. I guess his father had moved there and his brother. He wanted to be closer

to them. He takes a job in his father's silk screen printing business, which he owns one of those. And if you're decent at that, you can make good money doing that. Like that's, you know, people overcharge like crazy to make t-shirts.

Oh, boy, do they make money. To print them? Trust us, we know. Yeah. You buy shit on Threadless, you know, they're great. They're good with customer service and shit. That's why we use them. But we're not getting a whole lot of that.

You know what I mean? Like that's... That's not a crazy profit. No, really not at all. You know who makes a crazy profit? it's a volume game threadless silk screeners yeah exactly they probably do but they we don't care because they they take care of you guys if they that's what matters you get like a wrong size or like keep that one and we'll send you the correct one you get a blanket that has a family you've never seen before don't worry we've seen that we'll get you the right one yeah and they will and you can keep the one with the family too and draw hitler mustaches on them if you want i don't know

who cares hang on to the yates's fucking blanket see that 10 month old little girl draw a nice hitler mustache on it there you go that's it's yours now who cares it's incredible that's the greatest thing ever about them is that no matter what you get, if it doesn't match your order, we'll give you the right one and you get to keep the weird shit that we sent you as a surprise. That's it. You keep it and you draw Hitler mustaches on it. That's how it works.

Put a cigar in the dog's mouth. It's cute. It's perfect. It's not bad. My cousin used to always do that to Charmin charmin packages with the bear oh the bear he'd just make a hitler mustache on him and you're like and then just walk away he's a hitler bear now because he'd like have his he looked like he was like saying something but he looks sweet but if you put a hitler mustache on him he looks sinister all the time he changes everything

he might as well be flipping a nickel and holding onto a toothpick. It's like, now he's evil. It's hilarious. You can make anything evil. A baby, a Charmin bear. Boom. That's six million victims in his wake. That's it right there.

Your brain connects it immediately and you're like, bad person. Keep that in mind, Michael Jordan. Well, not even he. Even he stopped with that. Yeah. After a while, he's like, now I'm just known the hitler mustache guy who has good sneakers and used to play basketball you know i mean it's awful shit i gotta fucking change that image around again this is not great why anybody it's it's that's a bad grooming technique in the first it's an

odd mustache it looks dumb as shit yeah it serves very little like purpose that i could practicality zero the practicality of it is strange and on top of that like your lip is cold still but you have this thing in the middle but you've got 19 hairs right in the middle of your face yeah i always figured it was for like if you had like a deep um on the lip in there yeah maybe they've cut that in there i don't know that thing's kind of cool it's not a bad thing great who knows if in a certain time period that was considered yeah like some extra chromosome because you've got that thing yeah it means you like cock or something like obviously we haven't fucked that gene out of our lineage so yeah we'll cover it up with a hitler mustache the lip canyon yeah cover your lip canyon? Yeah. Cover your lip canyon up.

With what? I don't know. Grow a Hitler mustache. Have some fucking... Have some balls. What's wrong with you? If Jay Leno didn't fucking grow a beard, then... Imagine him doing a monologue. Hey, everybody.

Hey. With a Hitler mustache. How hilarious would that be? Hey, you know, President Clinton today. You know, maybe I'd laugh at his fucking jokes. Finally, Monica Winsky was in the White House with President Clinton. Jay Leno only lives in the 80s and 90s. He passed away in 2000.

I feel like he was in one of the buildings in 9-11. I feel like I know he was around forever. But like as anything relevant, he was way not relevant before that, but he was really gone. From 2002 to present day, I mean, whenever they canceled the show, it was just a weekend at Bernie's. I think it was, yeah. They were like, we'll put a Hitler mustache on him.

That'll be hilarious. We'll put a mustache on him and marionette him. He'll be fine. He'll be fine. We'll keep his audience. Same stuff. I'm going, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Have him make president jokes.

It's fine. The audience don't care. So his father has a silk screening business, and Earl is very good at it. He's got a really good aptitude for it. I guess there's ways to be better at it than other people. I don't know how it works, so I'm not sure. I'm sure there's ways that some people are better some people are worse but he ends up doing really quality work yeah that his dad's like holy shit you're like you're my star guy here i want you to stick around but earl

earl doesn't like to stay at jobs long earl likes to get up and go as people who roam as kids tend to be uncomfortable i we've lived in this house for like two years now i want to move so i love this house i need like my my body's telling me to move even though my brain's like why are you doing that but like inside i'm like just pack your shit up and go we need to all move tell sarah we're getting a new place and we're going somewhere why this is perfect we're living opposite lives at the moment because as a kid i was in a house for like 13 years oh wow then we moved and i was in another one for like 12 years oh wow okay and and so my my fucking life is is today i moved out of the ex-wife's house yeah i moved into an apartment i was there for 11 months now

i'm in a house that the lease is almost up so you're yeah and i gotta get the fuck out yeah whereas i'm like yeah cool huh sounds great. Fuck that. I don't want to talk to movers again. Oh, it's the worst. So Earl ends up, he quits this job with his dad just because he wants to do different stuff. And he takes a job as an assistant coach at a local high school, which is where he meets Blaine Hodges. That's how that goes here. He meets Hodges and it's, I I think two years that he's his coach basically and after that he

ends up Earl ends up going back to his father's business because his father gets sick yeah so he starts running it and then his father dies and he takes over the family business of the silk screening so he's he hangs out with the Hodges forever basically they stay in touch after

after Blaine graduates from high school, and they're friends. And as they go on, they're kind of always in each other's lives. And by 1994, we'll see they're kind of hanging out. Earl's kind of living there half the time. What the fuck? It's weird, because he's like a transient on purpose. He'll have money, but he's like, I'm going to sleep in a trailer in somebody's yard. He's just a weird guy.

He likes to have freedom. He's almost like an easy rider character. He likes to have freedom, man. He's one of those guys. Just like to hit the open road, man. Just don't want to be tied down. What is that? I don't know.

It's got to be psychological, right? Because everybody wants somebody, i guess nobody wants to just be single forever and do whatever they want no i some some people that sounded yeah nobody just wants to just like live with their own free will nobody wants that no but like some people had like that transient thing where if he wanted somebody it would be like somebody to to travel with me to see the open road with me man and share the sunsets my road dog yeah i feel like that's more his speed um but anyway uh blaine ends up uh like i said they're buddies and and they become friends the business does well for earl the screen printing business. He ends up meeting a young woman, and they fall in love, and they get married. Don't you look at that?

So Earl is having a normal life here. Right now, he owns the family business. He inherited the family business. He's married. They end up having two kids, two boys, Mike and Doug. He doesn't even name them after himself. Solid move. It goes real simple with them.

That one's Mike. I want one-'s one syllable names for these things i don't have a good memory right now i'll tell you what i'm a nice guy but i don't have my memory ain't so sharp now uh everything is fine except for his need to move around yeah when once you get married and like you have kids even the someone who you wanted who you guys wanted to travel together once you have kids a lot of times one of those people doesn't want to do that anymore you're like this is hard i want to stay in one place i want a stable environment for my children you know i don't want to go like hop in a van and see the country that's not really what we're doing

not a hunter-gatherer anymore yeah this is ridiculous now it's one thing to do that shit when you're 21 but when you got two kids it's a different story so they end up drifting apart and eventually divorcing because earl just he he wasn't bad he just didn't want to be tied down yeah so you know he wasn't mean to his family or anything like that so he ends up kind of returning to his former lifestyle of drifting and drifting and sleeping wherever and working he's always working. That's it. He's not lazy.

Paying his own way. Paying his own way. He's not an alcoholic either. He's not a guy who's just like a drunken guy who we find is he was passed out behind the store. Like that's not him. He's just flaky. Got it. He's flaky.

And there's just something about him where you're like, what is up with this guy? Yeah. You know, he's a nice guy and everything like that. But there's something he's hiding or something. Lip canyon about him. Something's got a lip canyon with it. He's hiding it with that mustache. I see it in there.

I see it. He's got lint and shit beneath it. I could tell. So they he does that, which is I mean, it's not like the guy's going out fucking living a rock star lifestyle anyway. What does he think he is here? Yeah. He's going back to running the printing business, is in a run-down part of the run-down part of roanoke

yeah he's got a you know a rental property that's kind of shitty that he's staying in and like hey what are you what are you doing he's just he's just fine with it i need this lifestyle i just need to make shirts and then do it i want it night. What are you doing? Just fucking relax. As a dad, though, you can't do that anymore. No, that's what I mean. He just. Having a milk carton as your nightstand, you know what I mean? Or a milk crate.

Not a carton. Those don't hold much. Just a half gallon sitting there. Sitting there. I'll set something on it one of these days. I'll put my necklace on top of it at night. I put it around it like a neck. Other than that, it just don't hold much.

At some point, you gotta get past that and at least have some Ikea next to you, you know what I mean? Something that you've put together poorly. Have a piece of land that you can say, I worked my whole life for this piece of shit. One leg backwards on it, but you remember putting it together, so it's okay. You remember putting that leg on backwards.

But no, it's not him. And he's, everybody says he keeps in touch with his kids he's not like a deadbeat dad like he pays child support he'll go send his ex-wife money for the kids he does his thing like his sons never complain about him that he would abandon us or anything like that he's just kind of doing his own thing now in the store he would hire a lot of the teenagers in the neighborhood to run errands and do small jobs you know at the print shop for a few bucks yeah deliver this over here i'll give you five bucks and shit like that

and it's kind of back in the day and a lot of times it's teenagers make a few bucks like that and that's it counts for them so they want to do it and it's you know it works out for everybody the parents are okay with it because it's a teenager trying to get a job nobody's upset with that he knew a lot of the older teens 15 and 16 year olds are the ones that would yeah kind of run the errands there he is known to have given alcohol to a couple of them okay which is still we're talking we're talking 80s yeah you know i mean if they were ordering on what we're starting to get yeah that's what i mean yeah we're still in the realm of normal yeah we're still in in lip canyon territory no one's grown a hitler mustache quite yet there's a couple there's a couple steps from here to how drunk are you can i put this in your ass there's stubble in his can in his lip canyon right now it's getting untrustworthy man's got stubble in

his lip canyon earl uh he closes his printing shop at one point and was working on like kind of a job by job basis for a bunch of companies like he had a bunch of accounts that he made t-shirts for and kind of closed his shop to the public and just kind of made orders basically for companies and that's what he was doing which gave him more freedom to be a nomad and wander because yeah as long as he filled his order and does his work then hey he's got three days to piss off whereas otherwise he's got to be at the shop all day long yeah nobody wants that right that's that's terrible here uh but he also he he made good money when he did the silk screening oh sure he had a shop and he had things but he didn't

really care about money as long as he had enough money to survive that's all he really gave a shit about which is a weird thing envious of anybody that is a great attitude right imagine having that attitude like it's all gonna work out i mean i i got money in my pocket right now tomorrow i'll get more i am not that confident myself i'm terrified that the next dollar i make is the last oh it's the last one i'll ever make and someone will steal it right on top of that i won't even get to spend it or save it or anything this guy's just like well i mean more where that came from wow it's wild so he would do it he'd kind of he'd travel he'd just go out west for a while and come back and do shit he'd visit his sisters in other states yeah it's kind of close to one sister in indiana i believe and uh yeah he thought this is the way to live and make enough money to go do what I want.

I come back, make some more shirts and make some more money. This beats the shit out of 40 hours a week. He's right. Oh, it's a he has two kids is the issue. That's a problem. If he has no kids. Yeah. Hey, this is a great lifestyle.

Awesome. Fine. You know, I want it so bad. That's what I'm saying. That sounds wonderful. But, you know, I don't know. He's just wandering. I don't know.

James, this looks good. It sounds great. He's just the casual. James, I lay in bed at night. When I lay down to go to sleep, I don't fall asleep for two and a half, three hours because I'm sitting there anxiety riddled. Oh, yeah. Thinking about how one day I'm going to die.

And what am I? What are my kids going to do? And I'm'm 39 they'll be tired of you by then but yeah sounds like something you talk about my therapist yeah it's a problem i think that's uh but that's that's normal also my chest tightens up i can't fucking breathe i'm a mess yeah that's not great i'm losing my mind can i recommend marijuana to you jimmy i'm telling you just like i am literally if i gave you a so close 10 milligram edible at night you would fucking fall asleep laughing i'm so close you'd be like oh my god i fell asleep watching reno 911 i think i might have peed the bed but it's okay it's hilarious my tv watched all of it it's tremendous the whole thing i can

remember some of it i gotta go back and watch some of those trust me i want it i genuinely it would help you so much i'm in i'm in such bad shape that's and it's getting worse the thing that's what we all do that shit because we're the day is the day but then when you're sitting there it's like okay well now i'm alone with my thoughts right that's why i go until i can't keep my eyes open for a second longer that's the other way to do it you have to you have to operate like a toddler. You'll just see a toddler laying down, and it looks like a chalk outline. And you're like, is that kid asleep or dead?

Kid just slept where he fell. They just played until they were like, and there's like a toy two inches from his hand where it fell out. That's how I operate. Legs all curled up next to a cabinet. How did you even do that? I don't know how they do it I want that life

I genuinely need it the life of a toddler I'm gonna have to talk to my therapist I gotta get on something I just don't I'm terrified of drugs man but I gotta get on something and I've had the same thing because anxiety as you know is a lot for me too so

but I've always and we all have these things well what's that going to do to you? What if they put me on something? How's that going to change my personality? We're comedians. I don't like being numb. That's my problem. That's why I drink, because I don't get numb when I drink.

I process things. It slows down my brain, and I can think. And weed does that, too. It's different. That's crazy. I've got to get into something, though. Yeah. You need to yeah i that's crazy i gotta get into something though yeah you need to do something i gotta get into a mood stabilizer i can't do anything because then i'm like well what's gonna happen then am i gonna be like calm well then where the fuck is

that gonna leave me comedically right like that's what am i gonna do then that's my my yeah that's how i make money that's how i make money you've seen my act it's pretty You've seen my act. It's pretty angry. It's pretty fucking angry. It's not. It's not. If I was just like, I don't know, like it wouldn't be the same. I don't know how I would operate. Guys, how's your day? Pretty good.

Mine too. This place is pretty cool. What should we talk about? Hey, all right. I'm so happy. Are you happy? What are you eating? That looks delicious.

No. I mean, that's a great way to live. But if you if being sick is your business, that's the fucking problem. And being sick is our business. But my sick is fucking growing. And that's good. And you need to figure that out. Listen, if my if my bank account was growing at the same rate as my sickness.

Yeah, I'd be fine. I'd be like, great. Counteract it. Keep going. See how far we can go. Get sick before we fucking retire. Balance it out a little bit and retire sick so you want to retire and then we'll fix it and then we'll fix it once i'm retired

that's fucking perfect so all right well earl is wandering the country yeah blaine living great living his dream yeah blaine is at home and he meets a girl that he's serious about his future wife theresa and uh theresa falcher is her name and they are so close to earl that blaine even asks you know invites earl to the wedding earl comes to the wedding he's a family friend and uh from then on after the wedding earl was kind of like kind of like uncle earl around the house he was kind of around there. He helped Blaine out with stuff. At one point, they paint the house.

And Earl says, well, I'll paint the bottom part if you'll get the top part because I don't like heights. And so that's kind of like that. He's going to help out. He stays over sometimes. And he's Uncle Earl, basically, just hanging out with everybody there. And he has a key to the house and everything. He can come and go as he pleases as just a friend that we call uncle earl uncle earl yeah he comes and goes and he stays

there sometimes so it's kind of when he's in town he you know because he doesn't live in town all the time so uh earl was you know uh was there for him and then saw when the daughter was born winter and then when their other daughter was born he was was, you know, other weird shit, too, just by popping in. Hey, how y'all doing? I could never give anybody. Y'all making a baby. Yeah. Why is your leg propped up on the counter while you're tugging? Why are you doing that?

There's not even anybody here. Just go to your room. Why are you looking at the broccoli? What's wrong with you? You're just focused on it with a steady study. Like, you're not even like going for results. It looks like you're just maintaining doing it. With a steady... You're not even going for results. It looks like you're just maintaining. Just doing it.

What a weird thing to do. You're idling. You're idling at 3,000 RPMs here. You're just idling. I don't know what you're doing. Fingers on your belly button? This is bizarre. That's strange.

There you put them. Okay, now that's... I've heard of that at least. It's grosser, but I've heard of of it at least i know why i get it so earl is doing his thing they're doing their thing blaine ends up working at the vinton post office he's a window clerk at the post office if you want to mail the letter that's who you talk to theresa stayed home with the kids she's a homemaker two little girls a lot of shit going on there lives yeah teresa's known as a fantastic mother very much into her little girls and all that sort of shit and they she likes to bake cookies and you know they watch

disney movies and all that shit they're they're very much a happy little family um earl here uh earl he likes he spends time almost it's almost seen as like these kids he spends time with them because everybody thinks he feels guilty about his own kids like he didn't spend that much time with his kids so these are like kind of his proxy kids like waking up for time lost yeah and a subconscious thing that people do and people do do that too they're like well i'll be nice to these kids since i was shitting them right a lot of times you'll get grandparents that are like that well they're like well i'll be nice to these kids since i was shitting them right a lot of times you'll get grandparents that are like that well they're like well treated you like shit but i'll be real nice to your kids thanks bill cosby's all this is not the people i grew up with yeah

these are not who raised me these are old people trying to get into heaven now that's what it is these are old people trying to get into heaven they're not the parents i grew up with my my ex-wife's stepfather it was a monster to his children and he weird he he tells my kids that their dad is he says horrible things about me to my children and then gives them toys and shit and gives them nice things to make them like him better well i mean there's a strategy in there anyway very strange man that's a strange guy i would i would watch his fingers around the kids let's just put it that way it's not blood i don't like that yeah i don't like that at all your dad's a piece of shit here's a toy is like

that's grooming don't trust your parents but i'll buy you something that sounds like grooming to me don't trust them trust me yeah don't don't tell them what i tell you yeah that's what i mean and you'll get toys that's grooming that is grooming i'm laughing about that's horrible and i'm laughing as soon as we're done i gotta call the cops this is hilarious 9-1-1 hello i have to report uh this is very disturbing. So, yeah, Earl lived in a travel trailer outside one of the businesses where he worked. Because also, when he stopped doing kind of orders for the screen printing, he'd just do, like, piecework at screen printing places that would hire him. Because they knew he was really good at it. So if they needed somebody to do a big order that was complicated and multicolored and layered and all that shit and do it well you could hire him and you know it's not going to get fucked up basically so uh earl ends up selling that trailer at some point and paid blaine to help

him deliver it down to north carolina they do shit together these guys uh earl then spends kind of more time at the hodges he stays there, but not all the time. He'll go travel for a few weeks in his truck, and he'll come back. He'll stay with the Hodges for a couple nights, and he'll go stay in a motel for three, four nights. He just doesn't have a solid place to call his own.

He lives like a 1960s Hell's Angel, from couch to couch, to cheap motel to cheap motel. It's either awesome, or you're fucking terrified of this man that's what i mean he's either living the dream or watch out and you know if you ever you ever see him digging a hole check it when he's when he leaves one or the other dream or a nightmare one of the two one of the two so 1994 comes along and blaine hodges gets into some trouble yeah uhaine, we never find out why he did this. We don't know if it was what he was into.

But he gets in trouble at work for stealing from his drawer. First, I'm like, was he stealing stamps? Fucking post office? Yeah. No, he steals money out of the drawer. Very little money in there. It's not a lot of cash, I wouldn't think. But I don't know.

Yeah, it's shipping. People are paying a couple bucks a pop right i don't know but he stole money i guess he got caught once and he paid it back and he got a suspension all this stuff but they let him stay and then he got caught again and so he's actually charged federally yeah with embezzlement of postal funds which is not terrific and as of 1994 here he is sentenced to serve six months in prison for embezzlement of postal funds he probably be a lot right i mean i don't even know i think it's just he did it again and so i can't be at 40 bucks for six months in jail you can't think it's gonna be a lot i would yeah how much is fucking you know a book of stamps worth to somebody in prison yeah that's what i mean like he had to have been doing

like a pretty consistent amount maybe it was maybe he had like he was skimming every night maybe that could be it yeah because that's you might be right about that shit so he yeah it's embezzlement i mean six months he's not gonna do six months i'm sure he'll do two months or something but he's not exactly a dangerous felon out there it's a fucking federal crime but yeah it's not smart it's just dumb that's the the least reward for the most risk you can do here you're better off robbing a bank yeah you know what i'm saying like you'll have less chance of getting caught and you know it's just you're better off just open a couple of letters and see if there's a check inside yeah right hey it seems like a better odds there's a shaky handwriting that looks like a grandma right so two little timmy okay

score it's gonna be something in there there's at least a two dollar bill that cheap bitch it's nothing it's just a card stickers a gift certificate for socks this is from kmart this sucks so uh yeah he's set to serve a jail sentence starting in september 1994 okay so this is um not great for the family obviously you know he's number one he's the one who brings home the money right so what the fuck are they going to do while he's a unemployed and be in prison right and she has to take care of a three-year-old and an 11-year-old and this is rough man this is going to be hard of a three-year-old and an 11-year-old. And this is rough, man. This is going to be hard on a marriage.

It's going to be hard on everybody. Hard on the kids. Finally, Friday, August 26, 1994, Blaine and Teresa Hodges attended an Amway conference. Oh, Jesus.

That's how desperate they are for money. They're attending fucking Amway conferences, Jimmy. Jesus Christ. Left their kids. The conferenceway conferences jimmy jesus christ left their kid the conference was in charlottesville they left their kids uh with a relative and go to this amway concert no did you never know anyone who sold this shit yeah yeah i know a guy i know a

guy who did it he got burnt in an accident yeah at work he was a glass blower yeah and he got denatured alcohol he got burnt no he never even saw it he didn't know it was burning until he was burning basically right yeah and it was all he got his legs ah somehow didn't get his dick at all i don't know how awesome hole over here completely didn't get his dick and balls i don't know if his boxers whatever his underwear were he should have been selling those that's what i mean i don't know what he had on but money yeah so he gets burned he ends up getting all these skin grafts i mean i thought he was gonna die it was really really bad comes back you know what i mean he's healthy yeah does well sells hamline uh well he gets insanely religious oh and not like because he

was always like kind of you know it was like a christianship but he wasn't like now he's like all he'll talk about is jesus well yeah if everything's burnt except my dick whatever did that i guess higher power he married the you know i'm not judging anybody jimmy the ugliest woman i've ever fucking seen and he's like a handsome guy this woman is it's just i'm not even being judgmental it's just subjectively he's like an eight and she's like a fucking one and the third maybe she's like a 1.3 listen it's maybe. She's like a 1.3. Listen. It's not terrific. Right. But he loves her.

And I was like, good for him. He seemed, I don't care. She's the only one that does the weird shit he likes. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. The weird shit she loves to do is sell like Amway type shit. Oh, she got him in.

And so all they would talk about is like, if you talk to them, all they would talk about is either Jesus or Amway. So they're trying to sell me things I don't want on both accounts. So if I want to find Jesus, I'll do that on my own. That's more of a, that seems personal. Can I scam you this way? No, how about this?

Yeah, how about that? You know, I'll find Jesus on my own if I want, but if I want to be involved in a multi-level marketing scheme, kick me in the nuts because I've lost my fucking mind I've gone crazy of knockoff shit of knockoff shit garage full of shit his whole garage was full of shit and he's like

see and I'm like well what do you do with this now I got all this stuff you know what that's worth and I'm like I don't know who are you gonna sell it to fucking nothing to me sell it all then tell me what it's worth because sitting in your garage it doesn't look like it's worth much. It's like pallets of fucking protein powder and bullshit. I don't know.

So anyway, back to Hodges here. Back to them. Blaine picks up the children from the relatives on Saturday. A friend spoke with Blaine on the telephone about 5 p.m. on Saturday. Later that Saturday, a friend phoned the Hodges residence, but no one answered, and the answering machine didn't activate. It just kept ringing and ringing and ringing.

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and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went

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With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. 4.30 p.m. on Sunday, Teresa leaves a phone message with a friend to arrange for the children's carpool on Monday. Got it.

Daycare school, all that. So it's August, so it's daycare back there. This was the first day of the school session, so they're trying to get the kids to go. Now, the friend returned the call and talked with Teresa at a number that theresa had given her theresa called her and left a number to call her back at call me here and it was a public pay phone at a gas station which is strange i'm gonna be here all day just call me

yeah call me at the gas station pay phone which is odd why would you be and it's near the house too so it's like it's very strange it's she's using a gas station pay phone when she has a home nearby she could call and make you know kid around it's not something it's like an emergency yeah something you do when you get home so it's just weird uh anyway uh sunday august 28th 1994 a neighbor sees earl and theresa and the children that day uh earl drives a 1972 white pickup truck with a black tailgate okay so very obvious very obvious truck it's the one with the black tailgates obviously after yeah that's aftermarket right there he backed into something that there's aftermarket you know how that goes there's uh after oak tree that's what that is that's a special one see now

you when you back in when you're drunk and you're back into a semi this is what happens so he uh they were seen together near a nearby national not with blaine though near a nearby national forest on sunday afternoon uh a forest ranger who saw them noticed the black tailgate on the white truck that's what caught his eye and made him remember it right because you don't see that very often another friend goes to the hodges home at 7 p.m on sunday and he found a note on the door and uh two other friends went to the hodges home at 8 45 p.m on sunday these people have a lot of friends jesus christ how many people have come to your house in the last six months not this many does come on on a sunday evening to these people's house this is three people friends

stopping by in an hour and a half period on a sunday evening i'm truthfully mind boggling i'm so glad that's what i mean this sounds like fucking terrible i don't want to do this they have a three-year-old like it's 8 45 that kid's been asleep for a half hour you wake that kid up i'm gonna shoot you off my front lawn it's 10 106. I hate putting a shirt on. So come over. Jesus Christ. I'm going to wake all the neighbors up with my bless at you. This is ridiculous. So they all went there.

They also found a note on the door. Everyone saw the same note. The note read, quote, had an emergency back late Sunday, early Monday, Teresa. That's the note on the door. So very odd as well and the payphone thing right it's all very strange uh goings on here now uh people uh observed the hodges two cars were there they were parked nearby but the home was dark except for a light on in the basement that's all they could see they called the house but but there was no answer, and the answering machine didn't take the call again.

It keeps ringing. It keeps ringing, so there's a problem here. What's going on? So, whatever. They leave. I don't know who the fuck knows. It's their business. Then, August 29, 1994, the next morning, Monday morning, 4.30 a.m., this is, a man named Robert Scott Arney is traveling on Virginia Avenue past the home.

Now, he is hearing impaired as well and can't speak. So this guy, what he sees, he then has to find somebody else to help him tell somebody about it. So it makes it even more time goes by. He drives past Virginia Avenue, which is where their home is located, the Hodges. And he noticed, quote, a large cloud of smoke coming across the highway. Very thick. Not great. He determined that he figured out that a house was on fire.

Right. And he couldn't call. The worst person to witness this. That's the thing. He's like, oh, my God. And he's like, I'm making a face right now. I can't fucking do anything about it so he's like ah you know so he has to go around i know he can make noises i'm just obviously making a little

light of this because it's less comfortable than it's more comfortable than a house fire so he's uh no he has to track somebody down to get them to help him right he said i have a radio call this in you know whatever you have a radio there so he did he figured that out they reported the fire to the authorities obviously firefighters respond to the scene and it's there's a lot of fucking fire they find fires kind of throughout the whole house it's all over they enter through the second story and they come down that way seem to be the less fiery least fiery of places up there. So they come in. What they find is fucking horrible.

Let's find out here in the downstairs living room. They find Teresa Hodges. She's on the couch. She is certainly passed away. She is still burning. The couch she's on is still burning and she is still smoldering on fire um they find out though that she uh she died from ligature strangulation here uh is what we find out so uh like we say that she's burning and she's been strangled right

uh she's only wearing a pair of underwear and white cotton and and her white cotton shorts were found over by the stairs near the landing. Yeah. She has no top, just her underwear shorts found over by the landing. They also they also find a clump of hair. Oh, down like over in that area as well by the stairs. So there's that. So that's horrible enough. Right.

They keep going through the house they find william blaine hodges blaine they find him on the bed upstairs and he is also dead yeah uh his body is not burned at all oh but he has a gunshot to his left temple okay so that's interesting right uh strange not burned and. She's burned and strangled. Right. It's odd that you'd find two completely different like that in the same residence. Two completely modes of deceased. Shot and not burned.

Right. Strangled and burned. Right. It's fucking seriously weird. Now, they keep going. Oh, no. They're hoping that nobody, that the kids aren't home obviously uh but they find in an upstairs bedroom both the children are on the same bed together

there um both of those the young ladies are dead as well yeah um it's it's awful so winter at 11 years old she died from two gunshots to the head. Shit. The muzzle of the weapon had been pressed right against her skin. It's a contact. Contact. Her body is not burned. Just the shooting. Now, the body of Anna, who's three, is in the same bed. This is the worst.

With her sister. She also died from two gunshot wounds to the head. Muzzle was within inches when fired. Not direct contact, but close. And her body was covered with soot and had sustained mild burns. But her sister right next to her, no burns. So she went out? It's mind-boggling.

This is fucking mind-boggling. They find a single pubic hair on the bed between them on the bed between them as a it's a Caucasian pubic hair. That's all they can tell at first when they find it. And it's like we said, in the bed right between the two girls. That's awful. Which is awful. Now, police. Initially, you look at this scene.

What are you thinking, Jimmy? Like putting the scene together. I'm going dead. Yeah. Which is awful. Now, police initially, you look at this scene. What are you thinking, Jimmy? Like putting the scene together. I'm going dead, dead, dead, upstairs, not burned. One shot to the temple. Everybody else, two and a strangle. I'm thinking this guy killed his whole family and shot himself. It looks like a murder-suicide. And that's what I thought when I first read it.

And that's what the police thought as well. looks like a murder suicide and that's what i thought when i first read it yeah and that's what the police thought as well they went okay uh look the gun that killed everybody is right next to this guy and the gun's there it's a caliber yeah the 22 is right next to him 22 handgun is right next to him he's got um you know i mean it's right next to him he's not burned he had one shot when everyone else had two so that seems like you know he shot himself once and then didn't feel the need to do it again because he was dead so uh yeah the uh problem is once they get everyone into the medical examiner's office they find out that blaine had been killed 12 to 24 hours before the others oh no not a murder suicide anymore it's not our guy no this every that just i mean the brakes are on everyone goes

what the fuck this was just this is a tragedy man murder suicide and it made sense he was going to prison next month so they were like oh he couldn't take it he was going away to federal prison like they were just like nodding like man this is such a tragedy right you know every great little family and he steals money out of a drawer and now everybody's dead you know like fucking horrible i mean this is tragic. Somebody that can't take it, right. Kills their whole family over.

That's awful. As a murderer, whatnot for some fire. Uh, they wouldn't know, you know what I mean? That's the thing. He burns the,

the, the, it's open and closed. Yeah. That's who knows. Uh, so yeah, uh,

they, uh, they also find bruises, um, and, and everything on, on Teresa as well, on her body. But yeah, once they get the autopsy, they're like, holy shit, this is not good.

They also find that the fire was not accidental, but is a set fire. They find gasoline pour patterns around Teresa, around things in certain areas of the house. Teresa, it was on her. What do you want to bet in the history of house fires? There's never been a murder and then an accidental fire. That's right. Everybody died. And then a candle went out of control and burned the house down.

That would be amazing. That's probably never happened. Yeah, it's not going to odds of that would be crazy. Once you see the strangling and the gunshot wounds, you go, this probably everything bad is on purpose here. That's happened. Everything after this, we all agree is on purpose. It's an asshole did this so uh they found the wiring didn't just go faulty now boom murder suicide fucking bad wiring candle falls over somebody left the oven on in here. So they do find out that Teresa and the girls died in the early morning hours of the 29th,

but before the fire. And Blaine died, like we said, 12 to 24 hours, probably either during the afternoon or Saturday night, even they're thinking Sunday afternoon or Saturday night. Now, back. One thing I want to say here, because the only bit of real evidence they have right now is the pubic hair yeah now okay i'm gonna i understand because just reading a lot of like if you read like mind hunter you know like what these weirdos will do if they're killing someone yeah in my mind i know that someone probably tried to jerk off over this situation and there's no you know discharge of any kind there's no

evidence he left that way because who knows he couldn't pull it off or whatever the fucking deal is but that's probably how a pube ended up on the fucking bed which is absolutely disturbing vile i you almost wish it was like fucking sprinkled like a garnish like just like voila you know what i mean like that's his finishing yeah it's it takes a step back perfect like it's like an art piece i know that's not fucking funny murder parts but this is so disturbing it's better that would be better than i'm going to jerk off on on dead children right that's to me i don't know. So it's just it's a step beyond. It's crazy.

The realm of normality. And really, there's no normality of murder in the first place, apart from defending yourself. But making it sexual and having some sort of of sick gratification that way makes it so much worse. It makes it worse. A step. It's a mile further down the road that was your motive at that point right you know that's what it makes it you needed this for that now i can do that gross thing i wanted to do my god so uh yeah so they found

accelerants in the home also they found the telephone line had been cut which is if it would be if you did that it would ring and ring and ring, but obviously no answering machine because there's no phone for it to ring to. Got it. So that's how that works. So that's at least for a day the phone line's been cut. They also found that all the bullets recovered from the bodies had been fired by the same weapon.

The ballistics says that. The weapon that they were consistent with weapons manufactured by Arminius. It's a handgun. I don't know. The problem is the handgun found next to Blaine, the barrel was missing. What? There was no barrel on it. How do you?

This is the worst frame attempt. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's no barrel on the gun. I assume that would help the ballistics of it. Generally. Because then there'd be no rifle to fire another shot on and test the rifling. But it generally helps a weapon fire. Shoot.

That's the problem. Yeah. If you're going to kill yourself, you need a barrel on that bad boy. Yeah. Yeah. That's how that's going to work. So they said that it would it would it would be impossible to determine whether it had fired any of the bullets, though, without the there's no rifling. There's no ballistics.

There's a whole lot more coming about the bullets, by the way, too. So September 3rd, a couple days goes by. Yeah. People are like, what the fuck happened? I mean, people are a little freaked out about this. At first, everyone, oh, that's so sad. That whole family died. Now everyone's like, oh, shit.

So the police chief talks. He says, quote, I don't think we're dealing with a random shooting. Really? All right. Thanks. That's how I see why you're the chief. Thank God you're in charge. I can see why you're not just like a sergeant or an officer or I can see why everybody else

thought it was random. I'm the one in charge. And I thought, you know what? Probably not. I said, I don't think that fire is an accident. I really don't. I'm going to go out on a limb here. I said, I don't think that fire is an accident.

I really don't. I'm going to go out on a limb here. He says that no new information to give out, but there was no quote, there was no reason to kill a whole family, to kill two kids, and that's why the hammer is down, and we won't let it up. We're going to find this guy right away. He said, there are no new leads that I can make available to you. He said, anything that we could tell you would jeopardize the the any further details we could tell you would jeopardize the investigation homicide detectives always keep a couple pieces of info in their pocket yeah that way they know

if someone is telling the truth that they confess that way also they'll know if a witness is telling the truth if they're telling on somebody else yeah there's only a you know there's a couple pieces that only somebody was there now exactly there's a little thing what the person was wearing what the caliber of the weapon was things like that little things that they'll that only a killer would know in this case it's the poor patterns of the gasoline they don't tell anybody about that got it they don't tell shit they hold that all back for now just they don't tell anyone it's it's arson so uh which i mean obviously it is but they don't tell anyone yeah what kind he says we're still trying to determine the last people who saw the hodges alive they're talking about a multi-jurisdictional

investigation with the state police in roanoke county and roanoke city in the vinton town and the fucking you know people are coming out of the hills with pitches and tor fucking pitches with torches and pitchforks torch folks that's right so you know it's it's gonna be if the cavalry is coming full-on full-on shit here we got hounds and everything oh boy now they have one sort of witness kind of um dorothy ross mcgee who was driving her car through the town of vinton in her going into work that morning she drove past the house uh and while it was burning and saw a white or before it was burning but during that time period and saw a pickup truck operated by a lone white male that pulled onto the street in

the area of the residence paused uh followed her for a second and then drove past her fast past the 35 mile an hour speed limit she said it was a light colored sort of pinkish color yeah she said like a light sort of pink like all big pickup trucks are a light pink they're beautiful but with a dark tailgate is what she said that's what she said so i mean she's an old lady too so her colors especially at that time of morning because the sun's coming up around then so you're gonna have different hues and street lights street lights mixed with you know sunrise mixed with weird who knows what that's gonna reflect on light hits paint at a funny angle yeah who knows if she's got to put on her afternoon glasses i don't have any idea so on the morning of the fire where the fuck was earl they want to know

because he's hangs around and's a friend of the family. They want to talk to him. They find out that he arrived at his place of work at 5.08 a.m. It's 4.7 miles from the Hodges house, a 12-minute drive. So that's how that works. He, Earl, told his supervisor that he slept in his truck last night out in the parking lot. So I slept in my truck last night. I just must have overslept out there and came in.

But his supervisor said his hair was neatly combed, he had clean clothes on that weren't wrinkled, and he was freshly shaven. Shaved in the bed of the truck. It was awesome. Yeah, this guy can work it out quick. Fred Smith, who's a co-worker at the Bruco Sign Company, he said that Earl sometimes slept in his truck and that

he usually parked in the front of that of the store for those when he did that he said that when he got there though smith that morning at 4 30 a.m he didn't see earl's truck there so if he did sleep there he was out of the parking lot by 4 30 and then came back by 5 so which is not what he said he did so uh also earl was seen driving past the hodges house at 8 30 a.m on the morning of the fire but didn't stop he just drove by the house and there was all emergency vehicles the whole fucking street was closed off the place where you stay sometimes you have no questions for nobody not at all just keep driving i'll ask him later you can imagine the amount of emergency personnel with a fire and four dead

people two dead children i mean it's cordoned off well yeah the whole street you can only go around one lane and shit like that he later said he tells his ex-wife about the fire later in the day because you know everybody knows about it by then and he tells his ex-wife and he said that he thought the police were quote gonna blame it on me that's what he said they're gonna blame it on me why That's what he said. They're going to blame it on me. Why would they blame it on you? Right. Why? You see, you've got nothing going on.

He's got a couple of problems in the past once they look him up. About 20 years before this, in the 70s, he was found guilty of drunk driving and writing a bad check. Who cares? Yeah. The 1970s, obviously, drunk driving isn't great. Bad checks aren't great. Right.

It's the 70s. It's 20 years ago no one died it's not like you know if he didn't get busted 20 more times maybe he learned his lesson right right clearly figured out how to balance the checkbook so what he's bad at math who cares exactly he's bad at that kind of math right blood alcohol content that math how much do i weigh again uh how what's oh shit is wine stronger than. I don't know. Also, they found, though, a little worse in 1984. A little worse. A lot worse.

Earl was charged with molesting a 10 year old girl. Oh, Earl goes all the way to trial. But he's acquitted. He's acquitted, which I mean, who knows back then if they didn't believe the kid or who? I don't even know. we don't have any idea uh but there's been some other stuff and more on that we'll get to don't worry that's not the last you'll hear of earl and his past they want to talk to earl because of his friendship with them obviously about 5 p.m that day earl came down to the police department and in response to a request from the police he didn't just show up

they called him and they said would you mind coming in we want to talk to you about this fire and uh now he uh he said that the the policeman told the told him that the hodges had all been killed in a fire he didn't mention how they were killed didn't mention murder he just said everyone was killed in the fire and at that point he said said that Earl seemed to cry for a period of time, but the police officer said he didn't see any tears. Oh. He just saw he was just sobbing, basically. I hate that crying.

Yeah. I don't know what he was doing. Then he became angry and punched a file cabinet. So he's going through all the stages of grief right away. Right now. He's going to be acceptance by the time he gets to the parking lot. He's going to be like, that's all right. I understand.

It's cool. You know what, man? This is a crazy, topsy-turvy world. Yeah. You never know when you're going to go. That just tells you enjoy your loved ones and enjoy every day of your life. You fellas have a nice night, officers. All right, then.

I'll see you later. Everybody's got time to go. You go when you're called. You go when you're called, man. A big man calls you. You come running. I wish I had that process. a run i wish i had that process right real fast every night and i wouldn't be sitting up amazing they said then he started

acting strangely a little bit which he's always acting a little bit strangely but he acts strangely and then before they even told him that it had been a homicide he said uh they the police said they were just discussing quote some general things and he just interrupted one of the cops and says if you're going to charge me with murder go ahead and charge me and get it over with oh they were like pardon nobody think about a murder excuse me sir uh we didn't do that uh what the fuck and so uh near 9 30 a.m on wednesday uh so that he leaves that you know he's they say well we're not going to arrest your ill should we and he said of course not i didn't do anything wrong

he ends up leaving he ends up going he's staying at the apple valley motel now the police come to talk to him there because he said that they should and then he wouldn't talk to them so then they come back but they come back with blaine's, which is weird to like try to talk like convince him like emotionally, like I want to know what happened. My brother helped me type of thing. Yeah. And so that's what they do. And they said that he was first calm Earl was. And then he became very emotional and he started crying and shaking real bad.

And then he just yelled out, go ahead and arrest me for murder. Go ahead. And he started screaming. Why don't you just do it? He's putting his hands behind his back. Go ahead and fucking cuff me if you want to cuff me. And they're like, oh, boy, here. He then also said that he thought about suicide and he wrote a note for that night and everything.

He was going to kill himself, he tells them. But then he said he calmed down, calmed down. And they said, look, let's just resume this. Why don't you come down? Meet me at the police department noon tomorrow. They give you a chance to calm down and then we'll just talk about real nice and calm at noon. Um,

so the, he, they, he says, okay, sure. And then he never shows up. Of course not.

Obviously. Oh, and it's getting worse for Earl. Um, several days after the deaths of the Hodges, coworkers of Earl's found a pair of jeans in a bucket filled with water and some cleaning shit in the

place of business, like out back, a pair of his jeans. In addition, cops who interviewed Earl later in the day noticed that that first day noticed that his sneakers looked to be like freshly cleaned. Like they were sparkling clean, but they weren't brand new. Okay. So they were like, they looked like they were sparkling clean but they weren't

brand new okay so they were like he they look like somebody detailed them with a fucking q-tip and some alcohol or something like really detailed them up and made them nice which is very strange especially for earl right you know like earl's not gonna clean his sneakers like that his name's earl for fuck's sake he's not doing that there's not an Earl unless it's DMX that cleans their yeah clean my shoes motherfucker don't like it when them shits get dirty right so later on in the week uh another co-worker saw Earl sitting near a dumpster behind the the uh print shop the Bruco print shop here so they told the cops about that and the cops went and searched the dumpster just they're like well fuck it it's something because everyone's kind of suspicious of earl when they search the dumpster they find bills addressed to earl uh in there a t-shirt identical to the one

he gave to winter days before the murder not that he gave that somebody had given to to winter so and they couldn't find that shirt in the house either so this is winter's shirt that he gave that somebody had given to to winter so and they couldn't find that shirt in the house either so this is winter's shirt that he has the 11 year old i'm gonna put her clothes and shit with my name on it uh right here it gets weirder jimmy oh boy oh boy a multi-page document written by earl detailing his belief that winter the 11old, was sexually attracted to him. Oh, no. And several audio tapes and a tape recorder. Which, imagine what's on these fucking tapes after we're getting into this. The recordings on the tapes were by Earl. And he spoke about his obsession with Winter on the tapes.

There's more tapes, by the way, that his sister has hidden. Oh, no. Also found in the dumpster was a crude sketch depicting the murders. It was of four stick figures, a male, a female, and two children. Lines were drawn to the heads of the male stick figure and the children, and a circle had been

drawn around the female and the children but not the male. The paper on which the sketch appeared bore notes in his handwriting. So he definitely drew this fucking thing as well. What? Not good. Fuck.

Not good. We're never going to understand the mind of a fucking lunatic, but how do you even unpack that? Oh, it gets worse. Oh, boy. Other evidence indicated that the notes were written several days before the murder, so he was talking about this. So that was his plan, not what he did.

This wasn't like a cave drawing, drawing like this is what we just did this was hmm this is what i'll do i'll do this this is the house yeah this is my plan this is fourth and goal yeah playbook that's it we're bringing in the goal line offense and we're going over the top so the tapes they find more tapes uh he calls them his quote pan, Panasonic diaries. Gross. Which sounds really gross. It doesn't matter what he calls it. He could call it his poetry bouquet, and it would still sound utterly disgusting and sticky with jizz. Yeah.

So a year prior to the murders, he had mailed two packages to his sister in Indiana. This is so weird. A year earlier. A year earlier. Some of the tapes were found in the sister's house others were found in a rented storage shed and some found in a trash container the dumpster we talked about now when they're open with the sister's permission she's like i don't know what's in the sister hadn't even opened the box she got it and was like i

don't even want to know what the fuck this dude is doing who who sends shit to their family and says store this for me he said hold on to it yeah just in case anything happens to me you keep that okay okay now uh they were found to contain photographs of the hodges children 62 audio tapes of his voice 62 jimmy these are 90 minute or 60 minute fucking tapes 62 of them that's That's prolific. That's insane. On the tapes, he talks about his sexual interest in winter and his belief that the tri said that her parents, Blaine and Teresa, were, quote, trying to set him up or entrap him in a sexual act with her. that the parents are telling the kid to like be precocious and come on to him right so he'll go after the kid and then they can entrap him and say he was molesting her no no parents ever want to put their kid in a position that's insane to think that that's fucking nuts but i mean it's 62 fucking hours of it of him saying this is a man in his 40s yeah this guy's fucking 50 years old this guy

um he said in the tape that uh blaine was using his oldest daughter quote as sexual bait dangling a worm in front of him that's the grossest sentence i've ever heard it's the most disgusting the most disgusting he talks about how uh yeah he's 55 years old at this point he talks about how you know that the kid wants him and the parents are trying to set him up she said on the tape he says quote he's trying to stab me in the back i'm going to put down why i'm going to put this down why all this is all happening so he's trying to say i'm going to document this as it's happening oh so later on in his mind later on when they accuse him these tapes will set him free that's what he's in his mind so oh he's so sick another tape he's secretly

recorded with winter this is fucking disgusting that uh he told her that if he didn't get to see her once a day he gets all upset okay in conversations he encouraged her him to do handstands in front of her to do handstands in front her to do handstands in front of her him so her shirt would fall down and shit and he she said she's only 11 this kid and she said quote you're not supposed to look at that stuff earl oh god damn it that no hey sick fuck get away from me the kid even knew ew you're a creep and he's got this on 11 11 and she knew this you know what i mean that's she's a kid who was like it'll get away from me 11 no no go away yeah don't look at

me like that and he said quote can't help myself then later he called her on the tapes on his own when he was recording called her sexually sophisticated and he felt that she was leading him on that's what she felt uh felt with the attention she was giving him. He says, quote, it's heavy duty sexual enticement. I can't handle it. I've got to walk away from it. Oh, yeah. Oh, there's more in the box that he sent to his sisters for for safekeeping. Also in the box was a pair of distinctive socks that definitely were Winters.

There's a certain design. Sensitive socks that definitely were Winters. There's a certain design. Also, they had solvent used in silk screening in an area of the Bruco shop where he did a screening work on them. Chemical analysis revealed traces of fuel oil on jeans that were there. Fuel oil that was an exact match of one of the accelerants that was at the home. There's a lot of stuff here. Additionally, five-gallon fuel cans were found at the Hodges home and were matched to fuel cans owned by candler oil where bramlett had worked so we took cans from there brought them there and just left them there fuck it now uh the notes here are on the

house with theresa if we remember the ones had an emergency be back sunday morning right sunday night early monday morning uh they said that said that family members testified later on that they knew of no such emergency, and if anything was wrong, Teresa would have called her family. She's close to their family and not shy. She would have called. Also, family members recognized her handwriting, but they said it looked like her handwriting, but a handwriting expert was unable to make a positive match between the handwriting in the letter and her actual handwriting. So they don't know if it was written under duress or somebody trying to copy her hand.

Either one. Either one. Sometimes when people are forced to write things, they write it not like they do on purpose to show that they're being fucking forced to write something. So who knows? Also, they found an identification here. Oh, an indented writing on one of the notes. And the writing, which was addressed to one of Bramlett's sons, was also written by Bramlett. You could see the indentation.

So it came from one of his notepads, at least. Also, forensics. They found the gasoline sprinkled around the bodies. Like I said, didn't release that publicly, though. Firearms experts said that the casings and everything all matched came from the same gun. They found the bullets came from a certain lot. That was a lot that he bought at a certain store. Now, obviously, anybody in that town could have went in and bought from the same lot.

But, you know, that's just something that he actually had. You can put it in the in the barrel of shit. That's weird. something that he actually had you can put it in the in the barrel of shit that's weird um the fact that the the the barrel was off the gun made it kind of hard to see if it was that gun but that's fine here um now the pubic hair yeah the single pubic hair just by the way he's off in the wind right now he's supposed to show up and he didn't this is all this investigation's going on while they're looking for him uh found on the one between the children, was determined to microscopically match a sample of Earl's pubic hair. But that could be, that's very common.

So they have to do a DNA test. And when they do that, it matches Earl. So that matches Earl. That's a problem. That's a problem. You don't want to have a matching pubic hair between two dead children, usually. You don't want your DNA near two dead children children especially in a pube form right just about anything else would be better than a pube i think right anything any dna that is uh an eyeball from your

hips or from from your from the middle of your thighs to your belly button any dna that comes from any of that oh that's bad keep that away from the kiddos. Keep that shit away. So he's on the fucking wing, basically. He's on the run here. Rather than laying low, he writes a letter to a newspaper to publish. And it's dated October 12, 1994. So more than a month and a half after the murders. He needs publicity of this.

Yep. He says, the Blaine Hodges family were my my family and Winter and Anna were my daily joys. It tore out my heart as I know it has the rest of the Hodges. He says that he stated that the Vinton police were trying to set him up and that several lawyers had advised him to get out of Virginia. No lawyer would give you that. That's not legal advice. You're wanted sort of. You're a material, at least a material witness at this point. Flee the state. Right. No fucking lawyer would give you that that's not legal advice you're wanted sort of you're a material at least a material witness at this point flee the state right no fucking lawyer would give you that advice you

didn't do it let's go to court and prove it and make these people pound sand you can't just run away also the uh don't you said they were your family end of story that's it don't put that other sentence in there don't put the kids for my joy gross hey we found your tapes asshole don't say that he says quote i think i counted six or seven total lies by the police they did not misquote me or misunderstand what i said they totally fabricated fabricated the whole story of when i went to the vinton police department i saw the handwriting on the wall then then he said that he would have voluntarily turned over any information that he had that would have solved the case he said quote i have stayed away from the police because they lied to me that's what he said he stays away how long yeah two years what two years go by

nothing are they no movement they can't fucking find him and you know what i'm gonna go out on a limb and say i don't think they're looking that fucking hard because this is 1995 now 96 this isn't 1945 where we could just disappear yeah there's computers and shit and you know where he goes to uh west virginia south carolina which is pretty close by you know how he hides uses his real name wait what real name gets a job just pretends like nothing's going on he just goes by tells people yeah i was from virginia just pretends like nothing's going on it just goes by people yeah i was from virginia just moved here my name's earl conrad but it gives tells them and the cops don't fucking find him for two fucking years i'm sorry that is pathetic yeah that's pathetic that's terrible that's awful endangerment that's letting a fucking guy that's capable of that dude i'm

leashing that on society that's horse shit anybody that's capable of that. Dude, I'm sorry. Unleashing that on society. That's horseshit. South Carolina, anybody that's not dead that came in contact with him, you're lucky to be alive. I mean, someone who's capable of that. Oh, we haven't gotten to possibly the sickest shit that he's ever done here. There's more coming. So finally, July 30th, 1996, he's arrested. He's been living in Spartanburg, South Carolina for two years, working at the Sky Vision print shop. He's even working.

They didn't even go. Let's just go through the print shops around. We'll call all the print shops in the southeast and just see if they have a guy named Earl Bramblitt working there. It's what year? It's a long shot. Yeah. But I mean, let's just do it. Haven't you guys played Carmen Sandiego?

I mean, you find what he's good at. There is the Internet right now. Literally. I mean, it's not like it is now, but you could get online and look at shit and find things this is fucking ridiculous cracked this case absolutely so well they said a tip led to the to the arrest what tip what i mean honestly how you didn't need a tip right oh we're idiots thanks and they hang up he must be right there uh jerking outside my house with a can of gasoline uh looking at my kids is that does that sound does that sound like anybody

talking into a tape recorder for the other hand i don't know what's going on here very strange so they said they staked him out for about two days they notified the owners of the print shop and surrounding businesses before making the uh the arrest yeah and they swarmed the place he surrendered without incident and uh declined to be interviewed. He said they did put him on suicide watch. Wow. He was working at the print shop. They're all shocked, the neighbors.

Everybody loves him over there. His neighbors said they described him as a helpful guy. He adopted a three-legged dog from the county shelter. And you'd see him walking it every night, waving at everybody. There's Earl. What a nice guy. What's that poor dog been through?

Oh, my God. Mary Ann. He had four legs when he adopted her. It had three legs, and then its life got worse. And then bad things happened. Mary Ann Holbrook, who lives down the street, said, quote, I've cooked supper for him before. Lord God, I just thought he was a lonely old man.

Wow. Yeah, she said her husband and Earl were good friends. He would clean the fuel tanks on her husband's truck, and he helped out another neighbor, Chuck Gordon, put gypsum wallboard at his house and fixed another man's car. He's just a nice guy in the neighborhood. She says, quote, If you could ever think about someone doing something like that, Earl's

the last person you would ever suspect, which is like kind of the slogan of small town murder. Right. The last person. That's how all of it happens. Yeah. He walked his dog, his dog, three like a dog. What do you think his name is, Jimmy? Tripod?

Nope. No? Lucky. Boom. I knew you'd get it in three. There's only two. I knew you'd get it in three. I knew you'd get it in fucking three. I'll give you three guesses. He's going'd get it in three. There's only two. I knew you'd get it in three. I knew you'd get it in fucking three.

I'll give you three guesses. He's going to get lucky. He's absolutely getting it. People described him, like I said, a good neighbor. He stopped at, would go to Nicky's Speedy Mart every day, getting beef jerky for Lucky, because Lucky liked beef jerky, and a 12-pack of Milwaukee's Best for himself. That is disgusting. Imagine what his shits were like.

He is the hackiest person on earth. He sucks. Yeah. Another guy here, co-owner of the Nicky's Place, said, quote, The guy would have done anything for you. He was a great fella. One of the nicest people we ever met. People said he was quiet, but I never noticed that shyness.

We talked every day. Oh, my. Yep. They they arrested him people were freaked out uh one sherman swofford who owns sky vision signs and designs said he felt sorry for him he said they connected and uh you know he knew the guy he said before 8 a.m each day he'd walk through his backyard down a neighbor's driveway and head across the street and then you, he'd do his thing. He said about Earl, quote, he was quite skillful, extremely articulate. He could talk about anything. His favorite topics always seemed to be athletics, track and field.

He was very humble, almost pitiful, sort of, almost in a pitiful sort of way. I almost felt sorry for him. I paid him every week, even weeks when he didn't produce much, because it felt like he needed it. Right. They have adopted him. Like a predator does. He makes you feel bad for him, and then he gets what he wants. He knows how to blend in a situation.

That's the thing. Because of all that moving, most of the time it's the opposite. The serial killers don't know how to blend. He is really good at just blending. He's super dangerous. Oh, this is the most dangerous because you're not if you saw the night stalker right in 19 in the seven if you saw that guy you go jesus you crossed the street to the other side of the fucking street dennis raider

people were fucking petrified of that man this guy you'd wave hey earl hey how they doing they're lucky let me pet you a little three-legged head come over say hello to the kiddos oh yeah the kids love earl he's great with the kids he had a small vegetable garden with tomatoes and squash and beans yeah and uh you know all that kind of shit one neighbor said quote there couldn't have been a friendlier or nicer neighbor everywhere that's his next door neighbor said that about him for a year they said that this is one person said quote it's like he died i mean police talk like it's open and shut he just didn't seem like the type, but I guess they never do. Yeah, that's very.

That's good. Oh, yeah. Bramblett told his roommate, James Lee Owens, that he was in South Carolina because he had, quote, done something bad in Virginia, but he couldn't talk about it. Oh, God. Oh, boy. Police said it was like a scene from a movie. We turned the corner and he walked out the door, and there he was. And that felt good.

Two years worth of shit. You could have had him at any point, you fucking morons. He was literally in the same house using his name with bills attached to it for he just had to do a... Anybody using this name anywhere? Right. Run a quick search. There are...

Dude. There cannot be that many Earl Conrads. Earl Conrad Brambles? You know how many there are there cannot be that many earl conrad's earl conrad brambles you know how many there are fucking zero because i i do background checks on these people there's not any other ones that i could find that's him that's the guy it's the fucking one screen printer weird jesus christ uh the the um uh chief of police said there was some degree of pressure to get him to get him to get him no shit it's been two years you fucking moron you dumb shit this guy's an idiot but we needed uh we needed to get him when we were ready and had a case against him we had known where he was for some time so you let a fucking oh they didn't tell the local authorities hey i'd keep an eye on this guy 24 fucking hours

a day we think he's trying to fuck kids and kill whole families and burn their bodies. We've got a case here. He's number one suspect. It's fucking terrible. If I told you the details, you'd shit yourself. You really would. So keep an eye on him. Maybe a tail every day for the rest of the time.

Just check it out. God damn it. Apparently, they find his place here. He rents a place, and so they search the fuck out of that place. Guy climbs up in the crawl space and all this sort of shit. I mean, they really get in there. They said that he was also fixing up a store and sort of shit like that. One neighbor said he was clean shaven and seemed like a nice, good-looking man.

That just tells you, you never know your neighbors. If if you shave that means you're fine right that's hilarious so they extradite him back to virginia quickly that doesn't take very long he waves the he doesn't care lets him do it and um yeah they they were proud of themselves the county commonwealth attorney said that there were he was very proud of two years of hard police work fucking jesus there were lots of pieces that had to be tied together he says he's indicted for capital murder as of winter in the same transaction as the murder of anna um the murders of uh anna blaine and theresa uh arson and three counts of using a firearm in the commission of the murders uh he is up for the death penalty here he says as at his arraignment quote yes i don't understand are we talking about one count of murder two counts ten counts what are we talking about he doesn't you know what

you did is what they should have said fuck you you know what you did you asshole so uh he wanted to talk he said about what happened He was rambling to the judge. He's really it's his arraignment. Yeah, not guilty or guilty. He starts rambling, sir. Literally. Then he starts going on reiterating some of the claims he made. He's basically reiterating his 1994 letter to the newspaper.

The police have been setting me up. He asked if a Virginia state trooper was going to be charged. And he was advised by a Roanoke attorney that it would be best for him to leave the area. That's the only reason he left. You know, all of this shit. He said that he got in South Carolina, and the police had just drug him down to rock bottom. He said, I landed in a mission. I was almost broke.

So he gives an interview from jail here. To who? To a newspaper reporter. Oh, boy. from jail here um to who to a newspaper oh boy in that reporter he talked in that interview he talks about that gasoline had been sprinkled around the bodies oh no one knew that yet that's they still never released that detail so when that comes out uh the police went yeah what the fuck did he just say so then they subpoenaed the reporter there was a big battle to get all of her notes and shit because she didn't want to give them up for you know it's freedom

of press yeah type of shit um but the police said quote the only thing that's the only uh thing that only the killer would know obviously right so it's either him or you lady cough him up or you they do end up dragging her to court to testify against her will but you know she ends up doing it uh he also a cellmate comes forward named tracy turner who's a convicted felon who was incarcerated with him at the county jail a bad man oh yeah uh tracy oh you know he is a bad killer bro he is and he's addicted i don't know if he's a killer but he's uh he's a kind of a drug addict and a bad guy in general he said uh that bramlett told him that earl said that he was quote addicted to young girls jesus fucking christ what are you up for i'm addicted to meth

you know i got an addiction let me tell you about it tell you about it gross it's disgusting shut up bramlett quote said that he had been caught with the girl the young girl and that he was caught downstairs with her and that the mother sent them upstairs and, and that he was caught downstairs with her and that the mother sent them upstairs and sent her and he said he went upstairs and that he choked the life out of her. That's what this guy is saying. Also, according to Turner, he says that Bramblitt said that he, quote, walked around for a little bit, then went upstairs.

He said he went to the first he went first to the man's room and then he went to the girl's room and he finished his business and took care of his business. He also Earl was telling Turner apparently about a what he called a forensic science book from which he learned that if you burn a house that it takes the rifling off the bullets and destroys hair samples and things. It does destroy trace evidence. That's why people do it. But it does not take rifling off of bullets. That's metal. And it's going to be awfully hot to melt those bullets down right yeah unless you have

jet fuel in your house that'd be the only way that's going to work you know i don't know so according to uh to this turner he said that's the reason he set fire to the house he said that he wanted the defense to be able to suggest the murders were a drug hit. Why would he say that? That's because Earl offers evidence that in the late 80s, and this is semi-true parts of it, Blaine and Teresa Hodges were cocaine, into cocaine hardcore, which we don't know about that.

They were supplied by a guy named Michael Fulcher, who was Teresa's half-brother. During that period, Fulcher, who was in jail at the time, was going, doing doing fucking was wearing a wire for the feds to bust drug dealers for the dea as part of his sentence as you know part of his deal and so they're saying this was a revenge hit for him turning in drug dealers that's what earl's saying because that's what they do in a revenge drug hit they you know leave a pubic hair between

children right not normally not oh one more thing yeah almost forgot no i didn't but one more thing make that two more things let's talk about tammy lynn acres and angela may raider oh no both 14 year old girls disappeared february 7th 1977 um yeah uh to go back a little bit to that time period, Earl's father was still alive, known as Old Man Bramblet. Yeah. Small town shit. Screen printing shop. He had was down the street from where Tammy Lynn Acres lived.

And Tammy had been given permission to help out at the shop. Odd jobs to get a little money on the side. Right. Earl was always often at the shop as well. He took a liking to Tammy. she was smart and shit like that um she would accompany him on outings and shit to deliver things and stuff he would give her gifts on a regular basis oh no and uh yeah now tommy's older tammy's older sister was there on some of the outings and reports later that she was fondled by earl on multiple occasions the older sister and her attempts to report it weren't taken seriously and that she was told

she was just jealous of her younger sister that's how people used to treat holy young girls you're just jealous of your younger sister nobody wants to fuck you she's catching dick and you're not this is horrible um so tammy and her friend angela raider also 14 were dropped off at william ruffner junior high school by one of the relatives on february 7th they did not attend classes that day and were last seen hitch hiking in the city and neither girl has ever been heard from again. Oh, no. Ever. Angela ran away. Angela and Tammy had run away together several times before this. So the police didn't take it that seriously at first because they had done this before. Yeah.

Like, they'll be back. It was one of those things. But several months later, they still weren't back. One of the girl's mothers got a phone call from someone saying she was her daughter but she didn't know if it was really her or not and saying that she was okay and she was fine and then she hung up yeah i'm your daughter and i'm fine click i'm your daughter i figured out life and i'm never coming back uh tammy and angela were also allegedly seen in a grocery store in the months after they vanished but that was never confirmed whether it was them um the girl's

mother told the cops that tammy and angela worked for the friend of the family earl bramblett in 1977 and a photo uh you know they looked through all that tammy's mother said that her daughter was friends with bramblett and his wife at the time and spent a lot of time at their house she said that he didn't seem to have a lot of adult friends just children that's a good sign jesus orange slices yeah this is the we haven't said it in a while if you see a guy who has no kids but he's volunteering to coach little league and shows up a half hour early with orange slices keep that guy the fuck away from your kids now 50 50 he might be just the nicest guy in the world or he's trying to fuck your kids.

Not worth the risk. Don't leave him alone with him, at minimum. You want your little league coach to be some dad that's like, oh, for fuck's my one day off. Fine. Fine! I'll coach the fucking team. Is he happy now?

And he shows up and he's like, Tommy, oh, Jesus Christ, my head hurts. I'm so hungover. Oh, my, when is this over? It's so hot out, Jesus. That's the guy. He's never going to fuck your kids. He just wants to get away from them. That's who you want. head hurts i'm so hungover oh my when is this over it's so hot out jesus that's the guy he's never gonna fuck your kids he just wants to get away from them that's who you want so he reportedly told friends earl did at a party he got really drunk in 1980 and started wailing

and sobbing and crying out that he wished he hadn't hurt tammy so this was very crazy um wow um so there was that a lot of people reported that but they never got any other info he left the area there and that was that and so they never they never they've never been found they've never come forward this is 43 years ago right they've never even found skeletal remains nothing still today to this day those girls are fucking in the wind man wow no i mean they searched the one girl's brother made his personal mission of search that it's fucking horrible and we'll talk a little bit more about the search for them here uh the uh change of venue he wants is denied uh he doesn't want the change of venue uh only seven with the jurors 68 they don't let him

have the change of venue they say there's plenty here 68 potential jurors were questioned only seven were excused because of fixed opinions about earl that would have impaired their ability the remaining were either unaware of what happened didn't see any media reports or the crimes uh or they said they had an ability to put aside any information they may have read and take what they're giving. Also, his account of the murders is not how it happened. There's no way that's the way it worked.

You know what I mean? He didn't go up, choke the life out of her, then go up and murder him, and then do his business. It's not how it worked. Who the fuck does he think he is, too? You're so fucking famous? Fuck you. You're a murdering scumbag.

You're not famous. Right. Maybe if you would have eaten them, then you would have been famous enough to have a change of venue. But let's be honest here. Now, late October 1997 is the trial. He pleads not guilty. Trial takes 14 days.

Ninety-eight witnesses testify here. Blaine, they tell the defense tries to put out that blaine was going to prison right so you know still though i don't know how you're gonna put he killed himself and his whole family as a thing when he didn't have a barrel on the gun right um so it sounds a little bit interesting here prosecutors talked about they played the recordings of the of the tape saying he's sexually attracted to winter and that the paranoia and that he's going to molest her and all this type of shit right that doesn't go over well i'm sure as you can imagine with the jury now teresa's father also testifies here he said that his daughter had become

scared of earl the week before the murder and uh along with her husband and two daughters as well on the uh he said that he told his daughter to get Earl to return the extra house key that they'd given him or change the locks and doors. And he's not the only person that told her that. She had a friend testify to the same exact thing. Firearms expert testified about the weapons and the bullets. The casings were found and the cartridges. They matched bullets that were found in bramblets truck

and storage room that he rented as well so they were the same not the rifling they're not ballistics but the bullets were from the same lot so either he bought a similar box like i said in the store in town that the killer bought or they're from the same fucking box either one but uh you add in the dna pube and i think it starts to really come together yeah so uh the mcgee lady who saw the truck the old lady this becomes uh the pinkish red lady right this becomes a huge deal because of the pinkish red thing right so what they do is the prosecution brings in these halogen lights to like copy this way the sunset was and the streetlights to see if it gave it a pinkish hue and do all of this shit. Meanwhile, they gave it a pinkish hue.

Right. And the defense never objects to this, which is interesting. Yeah. Yeah, it's actually white. But, I mean, there's no pinkish. Look it up. Look at the DMV. Is there a light pink truck with a dark fucking tailgate in the state of Virginia?

Probably not. They usually paint them that for like a giveaway for breast cancer. Yeah, that would be it. Oh, my God. Look at that. I want it at the ballpark. I got my seat chosen or whatever the fuck. And usually the person that owns that truck doesn't murder children.

Generally. Let's hope not. Jesus. Fingers crossed. You don't use that vehicle in the commission of a crime is the point. The lady that sells all the Mary Kay isn't out fucking robbing people in her pink Cadillac. That's true. Well, it stands out a bit.

Amway people aren't either. Right. So, yeah, his lawyer tried to suggest they brought up the the they said they ignored all other leads. You know, the police focused on Earl right away, which made sense. Why? Because he had a goddamn pube in the bed. He also said that they tried to say the family fell victim to a revenge killing by drug dealers.

Like we said, all of that shit. Basically, that Michael Fulcher was an informant to infiltrate drug rings from 84 to 89. So there's a lot of people mad at him. No doubt. But this is probably not this way though november 1st 1997 verdict comes down and he is guilty of all charges here uh sentencing will be in two phases there is the all the charges that aren't death eligible and then the death charge got it so those are two different phases here during the phase sentencing phase his attorneys present various

testimony earl's oldest sister his brother his ex-wife his son they all say that he's a very paranoid person so he might might have actually thought that but they all said that he was a nice guy he just thought that police were plotting against him so they said that you know he drank sometimes and that his paranoia was worse when he was drinking so they said he's a good father though his bosses said he was a good worker they called him an unselfish assistant coach in youth basketball i don't know what that means he shared the kids with other perverts it's very unselfish not even an unselfish coach yeah michael who is his son was a junior at virginia tech at the time really it's

not bad he said his father always attended his basketball games track events and he you know told him about hiking trips and going to the grand canyon with him and all that the guy he worked for sherman swafford that felt bad for him right in spartanburg he said that he was quote always extremely honest and uh he said that he would let earl run the business for him when he couldn't work when his wife got cancer that's how honest he is but on the first day of the sentencing hearing also several women testify that earl either sexually assaulted or terrorized them in the past one of them uh said that he initiated sex with her when she was 12 years old another one said that earl dragged her into the kitchen of his home in the

late 1970s, held a gun to her head and then fired a shot into the floor and a sexual assault. This was to get her to not run away. During closing arguments though, they said that, uh, that,

uh, he was suffering from mental illness because they brought psychiatrists in dueling psychiatrists. One said he's delusional as fuck he doesn't know where he is um he's trying he wants to help with the defense but he doesn't know how to and the other guy went he's just kind of an asshole like i just like technically medically i would say he's a jerk off yeah but as a person i'd say he's an asshole one of those those things. He sounds sick as fuck to me. Yeah, I would say sick. Well, the lawyer in his closing said, quote, the defense lawyer.

I submit to you, ladies and gentlemen. Do you think he's cured now? Do you think he got this out of his system because he's killed four people? Do you think the issue is gone? That's what I'm sorry. The prosecutor said that. They're like, no, he's going to kill more. I was like, the defense.

That's not a good defense. No, that guy hates him guy hates him he's dangerous he's gonna do it again right now to one of your kids probably so the jury deliberates for two and a half hours before recommending the maximum four light you sir may fuck off four life sentences for the lesser charges and then the next day is going to be whether he is so far, whether he's going to get the, they're giving him that for the lesser shit. Yeah. Which was still murder.

Those are all murders. But for each of the three first degree murder convictions, it's life imprisonment and a $100,000 fine. So he also has to state 300 grand somehow. Right. The arson conviction is life in prison and a $100,000 fine. The court suspended the fine for that. Hey, we'll take three, but not four.

Three on a grant. The guy can't even afford a tailgate that matches. Oh, shit. And for the three firearms convictions, 13 years in prison. So, Randy Hodges, who is Blaine's brother, he shouted when the jury said guilty. He shouted thank you and stood up and was escorted from the court as he was dragged out by Bell he turned to Earl and said burn in hell

and fucking got dragged out they talked to him outside about getting dragged out and he said quote it was worth it what a relief didn't give a fuck I got to hear the part I wanted fuck you love that attitude that's great it was worth it do it again Didn't give a fuck. I got to hear the part I wanted. Fuck you. Love that attitude.

That's great. It was worth it. Do it again. So Teresa's brother, Tom, her brother-in-law, Tom, said today is the first time in three years we're going to have some justice. So the death sentencing comes back. And it's pretty much the same testimony.

Six men and six women. They deliberate for 78 minutes before coming back with their decision you sir may fuck off death penalty for earl earl is getting death for that now a few months later okay they're looking for tammy and angela right now they know where he's been and where he was in the 70s and they kind of have more of a hold on him. There's a point here where Tammy's brother is able to gain access to the home where Earl's family lived at the time of Tammy and Angela's disappearance. That's awesome.

Different people live there now. He talks his way into the house. He discovered in the basement, in the back, had been closed off from the rest of the basement with a stone wall, okay? That the area had been closed off was now only accessible through a narrow opening in the floor of the master bedroom closet above it's the only way to get to this it's got like a dungeon um yeah someone would need to be lowered

through the hole to access the area they have to break out the floor and be lowered through the hole this area also contained a laundry chute and tammy's family could come up with uh uh basically or i'm sorry their family said the family that was there was like i don't know why anyone would block this off yeah there'd be no reason to block this off like why would you fucking do that why would you put a place where you can't get to also this house is now for sale yeah i want the fuck out of here yeah and they said that possibly there's a dirt floor in there. And they say that's where they think these girls are. Tammy's sister recalls being in the basement before, right when the house was built and

the basement was open with no inner walls. So that was built then. After, yeah. The owners of the property at that time, though, didn't want their basement dug up. They were like, you're not tearing our basement apart. We just bought the house. Fuck you. So, yes, someone who claims to have been living, been a child living in the home in the 90s recalls cadaver dogs coming to search the property at that time.

The family dug around some with a shovel as well, but it wasn't possible to dismantle the concrete basement walls without fucking damaging the house. You destroy the house, the foundation of the house. So the family no longer lives there. But the child says that the child who lived there at the time said there was two bizarre concrete slabs in the basement, which were described as coffin sized. This is fucking disturbing. That's bizarre. So, yeah, eight months after he sent to death row authorities dig up that yard yeah of the house they dig up the yard they found nothing they dug up the entire fucking yard

they found nothing and the current owners would not give them permission to dig up their basement because this would like destroy the house and they needed permission you couldn't just court order it for some reason there wasn't enough evidence that was all voluntary is this just on a whim yeah and they said nope so they've never dug up that corner of the basement we don't enough evidence that it was all voluntary. It was just on a whim. And they said, nope. So they've never dug up that corner of the basement. We don't know if that's where Tammy and Angela are. They could be in this fucking basement. They could do like infrared radar.

Now they can do it. They do in fucking... Do a sweep of radar. But they haven't. You can find shit underground that... They haven't. Wow. He said that he was drunk when he made the statement about hurting Tammy at that party

and that his comment was misinterpreted okay he says though that tammy died in a bonfire in central florida in 18 1980 and the police have known about it and tried to cover it up and there was a girl who died in a bonfire in florida who went by the nickname of tammy but that's not her actual name and they did tests and it's not tammy got it so yeah now on appeal jesus christ um he on appeal here they reject his uh ineffective assistance of counsel claims and shit like that that's his basic you know appeal there the first appeal it's a sentence is affirmed january of 2000 remember tracy turner right the cellmate he recants his whole thing oh

you dick he said no they never dude never told him any of that shit he changed it in an affidavit filed in court he said he lied because he was scared of going to prison and the police promised him god damn it less of a sentence uh yep he said i'm coming forward and telling the truth now because i cannot live with what i have done or what i've helped others to do which i mean if you're that guy you don't know that family. You just felt like you put somebody in the electric chair. That's a fucking,

that's a rough thing to have on your head. If that's not someone who you are, they promised him drug treatment program and reduced prison time in exchange for testimony. He said in the affidavit, um, yeah, they said,

uh, quote, you could have a whole, uh, Oh no, this was the, uh, uh,

this is the attorney, the district attorney. He said you could have a whole choir of snitches coming in and saying one thing at trial, and everyone coming back later saying they didn't mean it. But that doesn't mean anything. I didn't think Tracy Turner was an important witness to the case. I don't really think it either. I think he's getting convicted either way, but still.

All he said is addiction to kids. That's what I mean. Well, he did say that he's what i mean well he did say that i he described the murder of how he did it but people already i don't think i got there without him i don't think that that's true anyway no the fact is there's a d i hate these prison snitch shit they're never true his prison parsley is right next to the kids yes it's enough that's right there it's that's gross yep so uh yeah he said that this basically doesn't mean anything and this happens in every murder case somebody will come up and recant testimony

that doesn't mean that all the evidence was bullshit so 2001 more appeals here quickly he uh he said all that it was all circumstantial evidence against him it had all been planted or fabricated now he's saying his pubic hair sample was taken before the authorities located the hair on the girl's bed and that they planted the pubic hair there. That's what he's saying. He's also saying that his tape recordings have been altered to give the impression that he was attracted to winter and liked young girls. Okay. Okay. Now, no.

Also, he said they didn't get a change of venue. He doesn't think he couldn't get a fair trial ineffective assistance of counsel also brings up michael falcher talking about you know the brother-in-law who set up all these drug kingpins and all this type of shit he says the virginia state police were investigating falcher for drug dealing and money laundering and you know all that sort of shit now he was in jail at this time um he can't he can't demonstrate prejudice for his default claim because the failure to disclose this information did not violate brady because it didn't matter because it wasn't had nothing to do with the case you can't say it's not brady as they withheld information from the defense that was exculpatory

for them but this would you can't say everything that every family member's ever done is somehow exculpatory evidence toward you you know what i mean that wouldn't theresa wasn't involved in it so it doesn't make any fucking sense so uh also he brings up benjamin carr okay this is the first time benjamin carr's name's been mentioned yeah he claimed that the state withheld information regarding the possible involvement of Benjamin Carr in the murders. In support of the claim, he says that he gets affidavits from a couple of friends of Benjamin Carr's. According to this, a woman named Judith, I'm sorry, yeah, Judith Sinette, Carr contacted her in 1995 or 1996 and offered to, quote, ice Roberts, former employee employer like the family on Virginia Avenue.

So Judith took this statement to mean that Carr claimed responsibility for the Hodges murders, which I don't think so. Sounds like he's threatening a similar thing. Based on what I heard about over there. That's what I would say, too. Yeah. If I said I'm going to go Jeffrey Dahmer on your ass right i think i wouldn't say james did all the jeffrey dahmers yeah he'd go james wants to drill holes in my head and rape my zombie corpse somebody killed jeffrey dahmer and they should have gotten james yeah fuck dude this is bad have there been a lot of filipinos disappearing in phoenix i have to go now

show's over thanks everybody i gotta go so yeah judith mentioned this mentioned her conversation to car with a friend who was a police officer in vinton on the assumption that the car's statement to judith was exculpatory they're saying that made it so that's him admitting to it or all should be let set free okay that's what he says um they said no not quite it's affirmed but not without strong dissent there is someone dissenting hardcore about because okay when you this is one of those things when you add up all the little pieces of evidence that are there it adds up to he did this right you know what i'm saying it's pretty fucking clear that he did this strong pretty fucking strong especially his action

cemented afterwards but the problem is at the same time it's like okay it looks like he did it but at the same time there's all these little pieces of evidence on the other side of impropriety sure which shades that which makes it look like shit that's why it's i mean it's imperative to have corners right you have to have quality police work you need quality police work quality prosecutorial work because otherwise this shit fucking happens. You don't dot your I's and cross your T's and you cut fucking corners because you it's even if you're right. Cutting corners does not work because then people can say shit like this. And it has it holds water because you fucked up.

That's why O.J. didn't get convicted because they were fucked up. They cut corners and that's what happens. It looks shady after a while so they're talking about uh you know that the pink or red pickup truck here is another reason uh jurors could have said that they could have they could have acquitted him on that alone they were saying there the murder weapon was never conclusively identified experts testimony expert testimony that the unfired bullets found at the murder scene and among Bramlett's belongings came from the same melt or lot appears less important than the prosecution claimed. It's like we said that could have been anyone buying that jurors could have believed that more than one person in the same town might have gone to the local store and bought ammunition from the same lot. Only only physical evidence linking him to the crime was a single pubic hair

matched to him through DNA that was discovered in the girl's bed. Wow. Bramblett was a frequent visitor to the Hodges household. Thus, the hair could have been blown onto the bed

by the large fans used by firefighters or by air coming through an open window. Okay. This isn't a fucking Disney thing with a feather feather. Right.

One magic. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do. It's Horace Gump. One fucking pube floats along the... No. Right. Are you out of your fucking mind? How about the murder plan that he sketched

and threw in a trash can? That's a judge that wrote that. Wow. Not a lawyer. That's one of the Supreme Court justices of Virginia fucking wrote those words that the pube could have floated there magically and landed in between them. Can we look at anything that that man's done before? Right. What the fuck, man? So all sorts of brambled statements to the police that he thought he'd be arrested for the murder. I don't know why that helps him.

Fifth, he said that despite the prosecution's arguments that his obsession about winter was the motive for the crime the prosecution presents no evidence that winter or her sister was sexually assaulted um so yeah all of that but that doesn't matter because he's still convicted for he appeals for clemency here as it gets closer to execution time he's begging well yeah the attorney said in their clemency petition that the recanted testimony from tracy turner uh that linked him to the murders should be enough to warn a new trial at least and uh they also said the defense team the prosecution said the defense team was grasping at anything and everything because all the point evidence pointed at earl so uh governor mark warn Warner denies his request for clemency there.

U.S. Supreme Court also denies a request for a stay. And both the Virginia Supreme Court and the U.S. District Court in Roanoke all reject last-minute arguments by the attorneys that the electric chair amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. Do they want to give him that? No, they want to give him lethal injection. He chose the electric chair as a form of protest, he said. All right.

Yeah. We'll light you up. That's right. So it's a homemade oak chair that's been in use since 1908. We should have nothing in use that's been in use since 1908, especially if it's fucking electrical. If you had a toaster in your house and it had been, this is a a toaster from 1908 you would throw that thing out in a second or rip the cord out and put it up as like a you know a relic i would take it to an antique shop and sell it i

would not try to make a toast in it no i'm gonna burn my house down i'm gonna put my sourdough in there fuck no so but they're gonna do this they tested it once a month they said they just test it once a month just to see if it's still working. He will be the third inmate to die in the chair since 95 when lethal injection became an option. 61 people have been executed by lethal injection in Virginia since then. And this is in 2003 we're talking about. One guy was a guy who killed his wife and infant son. And another guy who killed four people in a robbery.

So he writes a letter here, a letter to Douglas C. Graham, who's a private investigator and who's an author later on, who he talks to all through this. And this guy is convinced of his innocence. He's written multiple books, fictionalized books that are stories of the town setting up some guy. The story of Earl slightly changed to quote fictionalize it. So he doesn't have to give anybody money, I guess. I don't know. Look, man, I don't have the ins and outs and legal documents. Pretty opening shut here.

This is. How do you. I've looked into this a lot he fucking did this this guy's pretty proud of himself yeah uh he called in the letter earl called the execution an assassination thinks awfully highly of himself if the option of life in prison were offered he wrote that he would still choose to die if i have to assign if i have to sign to accept life i'm out of here it's adios amigo they're just going to have to kill me he says that he picked the electric chair as a form of protest he said i hope the

sobs who put me here will never forget what they see if that's revenge then i suppose it is but perhaps those who just went along and and any other decent people out there will be so influenced or affected that they will look into my case. So the family of Teresa, Teresa's sister, her niece, Sarah, said that she planned to attend the execution along with her mother, who was Teresa's sister. She said, quote, a lot of pain and suffering will die with Earl Bramblitt tonight. Nothing that we are going to see this evening will be any worse than what they what he did to them yeah his last meal i love this he requested no last meal you selfish son of a bitch how dare he not know we'd be interested in this later he was he does eat dinner unselfish coach really yeah you're the most selfish son of a bitch on earth. He does eat the same dinner as all the other inmates. Sloppy Joe's, boiled potatoes, corn, and chocolate cake.

Dry chocolate cake, and I'm sure... Imagine what prison Sloppy Joe's are like. Those are not good. It is slop. It's just slop. It's viscone or whatever the fuck that was. Viscose. That's what holds it together.

That's it. April 9th, 2003 is Execution Day. Earl spends, if not that we're, it just sounded like. I'm kind of celebrating. Yeah, I'm not like, I'm not dancing about it, but it's just. Honestly, fuck him. Something I wanted to say in that voice. Execution.

It's got enough syllables to sing it. He spent a few hours with his family there, and then they bring him out there. It's 1,800 volts that there's putting through him. Yeah. They have a key thing they have to turn. Yeah. His last words, quote, I didn't murder the Hodges family. I never murdered anybody.

I'm going to go to my death with a clear conscience. I'm going to go to my death, having a great life because of my two sons, Mike and Doug. That's what he said. I got thoughts, Jamesames that's the most fucking i that's a lie and and he's convincing himself so that he feels better sitting down but what a horrible thing to say out loud knowing i mean what everything knowing all the evidence fuck you what a terrible thing to say out loud yeah that's what i'm saying fuck you causing more pain that's what he wants to do this guy's a dickhead well the niece there she's the spokesperson for the family she uh she says something pretty good here she says quote mr bramlett is a pedophile

a cold calculated murderer and he has a deviant appetite for young girls i do not feel this family massacre was the first murder he ever committed and if he was ever released it would not be the last he's a threat to society right we don't know what he's done if he if he killed tammy and angela in 77 between 77 and 94 well he could have he's a drifter dude right he was drifting you know when you get arrested james and you get acquitted uh and then the next ones uh you got to make sure there's no witnesses that's that's what he did dude I have like goosebumps because he was drifting right he would have he could have it's not just there he was everywhere he'd go off for two weeks just

going driving for two weeks who knows who he left in the desert in the woods in a cornfield who the fuck knows what this guy has done it It's ridiculous. So, yeah, they said that they were, you know, they were lucky. They said that he was lucky that his death wasn't worse. The niece there said, quote, I thought that it was going to be much worse. I don't want to sound like a horrible person, but what he got was not as bad as what Teresa went through. I really thought he got off light. So the author and that private investigator is Douglas Chandler Graham, and he has a couple of books. He's like fucking 90 years old, and he used to be a cop in Roanoke in the 50s and was in all sorts of other shit.

He never knew the Hodges there. He didn't know the Bramblets either, but I guess they started corresponding at some point. He has this website. There's this fucking website that's basically here's why earl's innocent and it is just pages of fucking you know the police did this and the police did that and they framed him this way and they did it that way and he actually is a great guy and he would have never molested any kids and he told this and it's like multiple kids said he molested him or tried to or something. And he's saying all this shit.

I'm not buying it. I don't believe him at all. I'm not fucking buying it. He wrote to self wrote and self published to thinly. They call them thinly fictionalized novels about the case. One is called Smoke and Murders, and it's set in the town of Vineyard instead of Vinton and covers a span from the time of the crime until the beginning of the trial and the second book three trailers down picks up the trial's end uh when new intrigue of the case arise and vineyard in the wake of all that shit i bet there's a three doors down cover band called that here's smoke and murders there's their amazon oh that's a lot of one star 2.1 out of five stars and uh 73 one star reviews so i don't know if

that's the family or if the book sucks or what but i wasn't buying it because fuck that guy that is overwhelmingly disapproved of yep and on a serious note uh and obviously people probably don't but if some miracle somebody has any information about angela may raider or tammy lynn, people are still looking for these girls and they'd still like some closure on it. You can contact the Roanoke Police Department at 540-853-2212. The case number is 77-15978. What do you think that house is worth? That's for an email. Where that's at.

You can do that. The house that he used to live in. Probably 160 grand. Probably. probably something like that 150 grand i mean should we chip in and destroy it is it worth starting a go for me to buy that fucking house to find it up well i would do that i would love to do we want to do that i would love to start a go fund me buy that fucking house and let's dig it i'm gonna look into to make sure that no one's already done that and then make sure no one's done because i couldn't find it and i think that if no one has done that yet um let's try to do that honestly let's find out what it obviously worth shit we do a fucking housing report yeah well we'd have to find out what it is how much it costs if it's

owned by someone who wants to sell it and all that sort of shit first but if it's at all possible we'll do the research and if it's's possible, we're going to come back and we're going to get a GoFundMe together. I'm not fucking kidding. Let's buy it. And we are going to buy that fucking house and we are going to destroy it. Right.

Well, not destroy, but we're going to fuck that basement up and we're going to find out just to give the goddamn family a second to go, okay, at least they're not there. At least we don't have to know that they might be right in that house and I can't get to them,

which would be fucking mind boggling. That would drive me crazy. So it's driving me crazy now and i'm not there they're not my kids that's all i mean there's more evidence that they're there than evidence that they're not that's what i mean it's the only place why would there be a wall up in there it's that's so fucking weird so i don't know man but that everybody is vinton virginia that is one wild ass fucking tale i I got to say. Awful. Can't put it any other way.

At first, like I said, I wasn't aware of the whole second part of that until I got into it more. I'm like, oh, no, there's more. He's a terrible man, I guarantee it. Terrible man. And he's dead. And he's dead now, so fuck him. If you like that story, we're not dead. You can give us a review.

Help us out over at Apple Podcasts. That purple icon. Doesn't matter what you say. Just give us five stars. You have to say something. It takes 30 seconds. Way harder to dig up the basement of a house. We're going to try to do it.

I want to do it. I want to do it, too. I want to be there with a shovel. Me, too. I want to be right there. I'm not going to want to hear about it. I want to do it. What the fuck's in there?

What's that? I want to know. Anyway, I don't want to find it, though. That's the other thing. I want to be there and be like, fuck, we're six feet deep. There's no way the body's here. Yeah, exactly. Not that we want them to be dead. I'd rather both girls ran away from their families and lived nice lives.

I want them in the south of France on a beach just laughing. I hope they're like, you know, they'd be almost 60 years old right now. I hope they're like, you know, nearing retirement. I really hope that, but I honestly don'd be almost 60 years old right now. I hope they're like, you know, nearing retirement and do it. I really hope that. But I honestly don't think that. So but that's sad. Also, go to shut up and give me murder dot com for everything crime and sports and small town murder.

Like we said, more information on the violent prisoner, all violent felon edition of the prisoner dating game. That's hard to say that we will be doing as a virtual live show on the 29th that's a thursday of october so uh we'll have more information on that and we'll put that up on the site too when we have that right you can get tickets to other live shows all your merch anything like that that you want you should also listen to psa hate this movie on fridays what else here oh i follow us on social media. Very easy to do that. We are at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, and at Small Town Murder on Instagram.

So you can find us there, at Murder Small on Twitter. Did I say that right? That is right. Yes. Okay, good. So there's that. File us there. If you want even more of us for some reason, you can do that very easily as well.

Get on Patreon, patreon.com slash crime and sports we're telling you guys those patreon episodes yeah are fucking crazy there's so much fun they're so much fun we laugh our asses off through those things so i look at the patreon episodes as like a comedy album yeah it's just fun so like an hour 15 right for you get like and you get like four of them a month. Like you would pay five bucks for a great comedy album or to see a great comedy special or something. Not that this is a we're not saying we're a great comedy special, but you'll laugh as much as you would at a comedy special. I can promise you that.

Right. I dare you to listen to those personal ads that we did for crime and sports here. The, you know, personal classifieds. I assure you there's a laugh in there and not laugh i fucking challenge you to do it it's worth five dollars right so uh do that honestly that's patreon.com slash crime and sports and jimmy you'll mispronounce your name at the end of the show what more could you ask for there and if you just want to be a great person and donate because you like the show and you like us and you want to be a producer and you want to have your name mispronounced you can do that also over at paypal using our email address which is crime and sports at gmail.com and without that said jimmy i need to hear it right now after that crazy story i need one good thing to come out of

it all right hit me with the names of the greatest goddamn people in the world that keep our lives going and make them better every day i want them them now. This week's executive producers are Beth Whitlessy, I think. She donated both ways for me to misspell her name. Misspell it twice. Whitlessy. Whitlessy. Thank you so much, Beth. You're amazing.

Jennifer Visconti, Joanne Ahern, who also wrote us a letter a couple weeks ago and thanked us for telling you about MS. Oh, yeah. Because we were sensitive to it, which I don't know how we couldn't be. How would we not be? Yeah, I don't know how we couldn't be. Yeah, I don't know. I guess because we have experience. Fucked up shit.

Yeah. Hang in there, Joanne. Fuck MS, man. Yeah. Quit being a bitch. Matthew Molina. Happy birthday, Claire Molina. 29 for life is what I'm told.

Sweet. So 46. Right. Happy birthday. It's a rat's later song when they retire. Linda Campbell. Michelle Gilbert. Ian Hurley, Jordan Bennett, of course, thank you. Jeff Watson, Buffy Sykes, Jordan Covington, Shelley Ann Barnard, Bernard Barnard, I don't know. Caroline or Carolyn Fia, Holly Hunslow, Chris Bartolini, Tamara Carpenter, an unemployed history major also, and Amber Deneke, I think.

Thank you so much, you guys. You're fucking incredible. Absolutely. Other producers this week are Holly Heyman, Steve Schnell, Eric Thompson, Brielle with no last name, Ryan McGowan, Thomas Smith, Jade Armstrong, Brendan Ables, Leslie Ward, Ashley Veo, Carl Doyle, Terry Stry staudinger of our old buddies on there tons of them spencer ludman melissa turner winner winter winter hubbuck hubbuck brad peters uh elizabeth arnold julia duncan jayden patterman rusty uh medina got it that's why because i'm

an idiot okay kristin ems brad peters i think i said that molly duncan mary wood uh christer or chryster craig cole jude doyle nikki bachelor jade would know last name ryan would know last name keith marl mar marler i think marrier yeah sarah vresk john delong michelle would know last name morgan baker michael melito, Melito, Molido, Jenny Bradford, Gabrielle Rebus, Liz Vasquez, Samantha Hedinger, Taylor Ferris, Stephanie with no last name, Heather Cox, Peyton Meadows, Melody Agofa, Teo, oh, it's her birthday. Happy birthday, Melody. LaDonna Little Elk?

I hope she's native and that's a cool fucking name. Carrie with no last name. Ed Barrier. Stephen Clay Camp. Susan Olgis. Happy birthday, Jessica Stope. She's down in Florida, right? She moved down there and married somebody?

Or she moved to Pittsburgh? I think he moved. That sounds familiar. The guy from PA moved there, right? Yeah, I can remember. I think that's true. Stephen Clay Camp. I said that.

Teddy Martin. Amy Fry. Jennifer Sorensen. Sherry Neese or Neesey. James Marder, Michael Kelso, thanks buddy, appreciate you, Somali53, Jenny Hand, Christoph Johan, I think that's right, Joan, Elizabeth, Elizabeth Cieslik, happy birthday Charlene Esteve, or Esteve, I'm not sure, Andrew Gillen, Chris Buczek, Samilja? Probably not. Brandon Allen,

Tina Geschwender? There's not enough vowels in that one. That's a lot. Jerry Fairchild, Jimmy's Viagra dealer, obviously. Maddie Johnson, Stephanie Griffiths? Or Griffith this? Rick Daniels, Brendan Keating, Steve

Randell, Janice Hill, Chris Hunter, Emma Morris, Selena Goldworth, Angela Cornman, or Cornman? It's probably Cornman. Mandy Knight, Todd Alton, Mason Dubois, Jagged Little Quill, Destiny with no last name,

Renee with no last name, Selena Schmitka, Jude Kendall, Derek De... What is this? Donato? Yep. Lauren Gray, Brad Kabler, Cobbler, Cobbler, Jordan Martin, Katarzyna Niedzolka, I think, Alexander Sudkamp, Chris Henson, Jacqueline Piernich, Pierney, oh, fuck, Grant Bodmer, Bodmer, God damn it. Corey Cabone.

Happy birthday, Kim Duggar Baker. And also Tiffany Gonzalez. Thank you guys so much. Courtney Pask. Kevin Wright. We're running through it. Logan Hartley. What is this?

Sagan. Sagan what? Sagan. Sagan what? No, that's not right either. Hannah Adams. Jake. What is this?

Jake Young. I don't know how to pronounce that, but her boyfriend said that could net him a really amazing blowjob. Good luck to you, sir. Go get Jake Young. I don't know. It's as best as I got. Bill Jacobson. Derek Bentley.

J.J. Kaiser. Alexandra Lamb. Connor Niven. Robert McGeown. And Antoinette Eades. Eades. She Shelley Porterfield, T. Wicks, Hasher, Will Hunt, Christoph, what is that? What did I do?

Chris Dix, Chris D., L. Robinson, I think. Christa, maybe. I don't know. Paige, Shag Shag, what have I done? Shagman, Shagman, Shagman, Shagman Jones. Kelly, what is this? Kelly Brenneman. Chandra, nope, Chanda.

Chanda Harbor. Chanda. Cody Ennis. Damian Cabrera. Sarah Overstein Calvert. God damn it. Diane, what did I do? Antonopoulos.

Jennifer Sewell Shifo. Shifo. Shifo. Ali Arabski. Cameron Nugent. Jason Zachary, Morgan Brantley, Tyrone Bliss, Tiffany Wonder, Joel Brenneman, Melissa Sanborn, Douglas Conradi, Catherine Garger, Corey Campers, Lisa See, Brianna Ryan, Essence Smith Maxwell, I think. Nope, probably not. Jacqueline Jones, Demelza Brown, Jenny Bukowski, Rebecca Klosters, Jamie with no last name, Haley with no last name, Elizabeth Stanton Johansson, nope, that's Johnson, Cheryl Malone, Jake, what the fuck, Priyanovich. Crosby with no last name.

Jamie with no last name. Joe Hogan. Brian, what is this? Brian Torres. Bogdan, what? Gilmut Tadov. Wow, you're getting a lot of multi-syllabic names here. There's a lot of things happening.

Tia Moretti. Liz Smith. Michelle Barnes. Sabina with no last name. Cloud Nine. Check left hook. Check left hook. Tristan Armbrister, Kira Stewart, Jamie Floyd, Abby Crago, Chris Moore, Joshua Smith, Perpetual Coin Toss, Amanda Spice, Shelly Frels, I think, Adriana Moraga, James Magnuson, Sarah Davidson, Jeffrey Linden, Neil Anis, ChocoBearGaming, Christopher Satisabal, Colby Schaefer, Jason Christensen, and the kids, Hope you and the wife are doing well. And the kids. David Becca Breedy, Mary Brune, Cam Bob, Chris Johnson, Liz S., Lee Canale, Dina Rindo, Reandu. Nope.

Alexander McCraig, Darth Cheeto, Jessica Carroll, Courtney Smith, Micah Skye, Conard1717, Ashley McAuliffe, Christine Zavaldi, Alabama Sassafras, Was it? Right? I don't remember. Ah, fuck. Something. I think it's McAuliffe. It's McSomething. I think it's McAuliffe. Christine Zavaldi, Alabama Sassafras, Kayleen Kirsch, Jekyll Logan, Jekyll Jarrell, Patience Carpe, Megan Williams, Sidney Vittori. Christina McAuliffe. Krista. Krista. Krista McAuliffe.

That's it. Sharon Krista McAuliffe. There you go. Karen Lelm. Rachel Thompson. Yvonne Abrahantes. Patience. I said that. God damn it.

Patience Wissman. Holly Levinson. That's another one. Katie Rages. You said that. I know. You said that so. You looked over at me and went, that's another one.

Like we had three names and you were naming it. You think that's enough? How about, that's one more. Holly Levinson, take that. Carolina Vovatskavor. Very arrogant that was toward me. Like, what do you think of that asshole? Abby Lass.

No, Lass. Thank you, Abby. Adam Dugdale. TJ Butner. Kate Stewart. Kara Kowalczyk. Kowalczyk? Kowalczyk, Sam Kehan, Pauvelis, oh boy, Pauvelis Basificius. His wife's going through some shit, and I really appreciated his email. Thank you, Pauvelis.

I apologize for not being able to say your name, man. Thank you, Pauvelis. Corey McKinnon, James Stein, Kathy and James, nope, Steve, Kuhonis, Koons, Anthony Kirachuk, we appreciate it Thank you, Ms. Fott. Ms. Fott. Pamela Dennis. Neil with no last name. Katie Hayward Mullins. Maureen Montgomery. Nicole Gattoni. Jenny with no last name.

Anita Dunn. Gagan Satz. Kunlapa. No, none of these are real. Gary Treisenberg. Joy Amelia. Jamie Hasty. Lucia Judge. Tim LaPlante, Clayton Crowley,

Stephanie Gonzalez, Ivy with no last name, Joshua Gilb, Ben Mounts, Brittany Weiss, Vile, her last name really is Vile, Lori Christian, Ben with no last name. What did I do here? Laura, nope, that's Eric. Shively, Mike Johnson, Jessica Schwind, Carrie Schmidt-Swan, Aaron Nesbitt, Sam Hartop, Deb Compton, Lee Hibbler, Tony, nope, yeah, that is Tony McDomick, Catherine Perry, Jacqueline Goff, Matthew Forehand, Lynn Klunder,

Amy Dickens, Angela Rosenberg, Timothy McGuire, Joanne Penn, Kristen Bull, Ellie Babino, Boobian, what? Rhino Rhino, Carla Wood, Laura Shantz, Kristen, nope that's Christian Yeats, John

McQuown, Jill Fry, Christine Rushford, Melissa with no last name, Kenny Alaua, Paul Burns, Brian Poe, Deidre Solberg, Sherry Adams, and also then there's two last ones. Who are they? God damn it. What have I done here? They are Nicole Ellis and then Buffy Sykes.

You guys are terrific. Thank you guys so much for everything you do thank you everybody so much yeah and uh we are really serious about that house thing by the way that is we're gonna look into it i'm gonna find out where it is what house it is if it's available if it's been searched i want to take it none of this shit has been done let's fucking do it yeah there's enough of us and not even us there's enough people out there that don't even listen to the show right that would be probably interested to help in this sort of thing to find these foreclosure for christ's sake finding murderers let's find the

victims um i mean let's do it man i mean i don't care it's a little extra work for us but it seems worth it i don't want to be near the murderer anyway no fuck that guy so gross that guy's gross i don't want to talk to him. So yeah, let's do that. And how can people get a hold of you if they want to talk to you? Matt Wissman sucks.

W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks on Twitter and Instagram. That's all. Where are you? You can find me at Jimmy P is funny. Just copy and paste my name. It's a lot easier.

And with that said, everybody, it's been a wild week. Can't wait for next week. But for now, everybody, until next week, it's been a wild week can't wait for next week but for now everybody until next week it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.