Small Town Murder - #192 - Angry, Bloody & Ridiculous in Colby, Wisconsin

Episode Date: October 8, 2020

This week, in Colby, Wisconsin, a strange interweaving of marriages, and relationships leaves a man wanting revenge. What follows is one of the most brutal, heartless, and insane stories we've ever heard. A bloody mess, complete with some parts of the victim that are never found. Which parts? Well, let's just say it's two things that no man wants to live without! Along the way, we find out that Wisconsin is really, seriously obsessed with cheese, that sometimes a divorce is just easier than murder, and that you probably shouldn't show trophies from your vicious murder to the other guys at work!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Colby, Wisconsin, a situation escalates to a gruesome plan and horrific murder that can only be called shocking,

especially when it's discovered that two things were taken from the victim, two things that no man exactly wants to live without. back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us again and again. We really appreciate it, because it's been insane lately.

So fun. We've been on a wild, fun roller. And today, oh my God, this is like, this is part of the roller coaster where like water dumps on you after you do a loop. It's that fun. This is a crazy ass case today. So refreshing. As you can tell by the intro, it's intriguing to say the least.

We'll just say that. But first of all, thank you guys for everything this week, for your reviews on Apple Podcasts, first of all. They go a long way. We have no idea why, but that's not up to us. So if you haven't done it yet, please give us five stars. It doesn't matter what you say. Say anything you want. I don't care.

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Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com for everything. Small Town Murder and Crime and Sports, of course, as well. And if you haven't listened to Crime and Sports, especially recently, give it a shot. I'm telling you. We have been having some insane cases over there wild stuff kellen winslow jr was one of the worst people ever if you want to hear how a serial killer starts uh that's the story right up they stopped him right before he started murdering people we feel like so check on that this week listen to all of that and uh also get your tickets yep to the virtual live show

october the 29th it's on everybody the all-violent felon edition of the prisoner dating game you bet will be seen oh my god this is going to be crazy yeah jimmy's not going to be able to see the people before he picks them you will be able to see them at home but he will not we'll tell jimmy all about these people i'm going to line up four bachelors and four bachelorettes. And Jimmy is going to pick one of each. And that's going to be insane because he's not going to know who it is. And then afterwards, once he picks them, then we'll say, here's the people you picked. And then we'll tell them exactly what they did to earn their position in prison.

So that's going to be quite fun. Good times there. They really missed the boat on that show they should have done it that way yeah that's what i mean so shut up and give me murder.com is where you can get those tickets for that october 29th get your pre-halloween stuff there and uh all of that now patreon you want to be a producer of the show you're going to get stuff for that jimmy's going to mispronounce your name at the end of the show that's going happen you're gonna get tons of bonus stuff as well this last week we did murder houses for sale which was really cool like crazy murder houses and famous ones not so famous ones we talked all

about that i have one lined up for the next episode where three ladies are trying to resurrect jack the ripper what in like 2000. Oh, no. It's one of the craziest stories you're ever going to hear. So that's our next bonus episode for that. God, tune into that. It's going to be crazy. How lonely are you? It's insane.

It's wild. So that said, let's get to the disclaimer. This is a comedy podcast. It's a comedy show. This is about murder. So you might go comedy show about murder. Yes. Comedy show about murder yes comedy show about

murder they it's actually the better way to go about it we think i think it's a little too dark to hear someone solemnly said then her head was removed from her shoulder that's a little depressing for me i'd rather hear some light shit around the murder and then still respect the murder yeah but you know let's play around a little bit in the seams you know what i'm saying so that's what we're gonna do here we're gonna have a good time we're not to get too dark with it although there's some gross stuff that there's no way it's not going to be dark so that's how that works if you think you know true crime and comedy don't go together maybe you shouldn't listen that's all but tell you tell you one thing we do we go out of our way and try our best not to make fun of

the victim or the victim's family how was that because is that? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. All right. That's how that works. So everybody on board for that, I think it's time to sit back. Yeah. And clear the lungs out and shout, shut up. I'm going to get me murdered. Let's do this, Jimmy.

Great. Go on a trip. Let's go to the Midwest again. Okay. Back there. We are going to Colby, Wisconsin. wisconsin oh baby and it's exactly what you think it is you're gonna go is that where the cheese yes it is absolutely hacky fox absolutely it wasn't hacking well yeah they did it yeah they it's it's named after a railroad guy so the cheese

is named after a railroad railroad is that true yeah inadvertently it's we'll get to it so boy it's in central wisconsin like kind of dead if there was a bullseye yeah this is the hundred points right here if you hit colby wisconsin about three and a half hours to milwaukee about two and a half hours over to minneapolis three hours to jefferson wisconsin which is episode 157 which we did in february early early February, which might as well have been 100 years ago. Because let's be honest, from February to October of this year, it's like dog years. It's been at least 14 years, I feel like.

There was a man singing about blowing his boyfriend at a funeral at that time. It's wild. And you don't even remember it. Don't remember anything. This is when we were on the road still so to put it that way right so this is in it's in two different counties it's in clark and marathon counties area code 715 it's a small town about 1.65 square miles so a tiny little town colby is and they have of course mottos here and they're this is pretty funny honestly this is a long

motto the first one and i'm not making this up at all uh first it is quote a growing community proud of its heritage yeah it is it's not really a motto right and your heritage is cheese so that's all your heritage that's why they're growing and a growing community we have the same amount of people but way less space we're just expanding just a lot of cheese and And quote, home of Colby cheese, which we figured already. And that's the worst cheese. It's pretty lame.

Yeah, I like a sharp cheddar, personally. That's my favorite cheese. I want some flavor in it. Yeah, I like extra sharp cheddar is nice. So I've combined these two into something realistic

that still emphasizes what they're proud of. Because those two, they're disparate. Let's put them together. Colby're proud of. Okay. Because those two, they're disparate. Let's put them together. Colby, proud of our heritage of the finest cheese farts on earth. I think that satisfies everybody, right? That's all that shit's good for.

It's realistic. Yeah, just gas. Just making yourself stink. That's all. So when the Wisconsin Central Railroad was building the line through the woods over here, they were going to Lake Superior or toward there. It finished this 1872 construction season. The construction season.

I like that. Yeah. Did it culminate in a Super Bowl of sorts? One guy led in nails driven. He was amazing. You should have seen him. He was like a machine. Yeah.

He lays the MVP. He led the league. Did it against his will. You know, I mean, it was either that or death. Yeah. They dragged him here from China. He led the league. Did it against his will, but you know. I mean. It was either that or death. Yeah. They dragged him here from China, but that doesn't matter. They were, he was.

Yeah. So, yeah, they finished that with the rails completed right at Colby. So that's where it kind of ended there. So the place, Colby's first name was, you got a guess? Jackstown. Section 53. Very charming. That that's charming isn't it section 53 it's very charming you think about that's romantic you set up a b&b take you know people are gonna come there yeah honey we're gonna go to section 53 this weekend where all the It sounds like they're doing nuclear testing there. And I was like, fucking just barren.

I think that's what we used to call New Mexico. It's just barren and irradiated is what it sounds like. Like New Mexico. Right. And instead, Section 53. It's the weirdest shit ever. Oh, Wisconsin. Oh, Wisconsin.

But they renamed the station in honor of a partner in the construction company that was building the railroad. And his name was Charles L. Colby. So old Chuck Colby here. He was the son of the railroad's financier, Gardner L. Colby. Okay. So basically, that's how it became Colby. And then this guy became known as the cheese person, even though he had nothing to do with cheese, just railroads. Just happens to be a rich dipshit son.

That's that's all it is. A rich dipshit son. And now he's the he's everything. This is Johnny Cheese right here. Lord. So, yes, it's the birthplace of Colby Cheese. A historical marker in downtown Colby commemorates the development of Colby cheese by Joseph Steinwand

in 1874. Now let's talk about how this cheese happened quickly. We're not going to talk much about the cheese. Ambrose Steinwand passed his cheese making art to his son Joseph F. Steinwand who perfected a washed curd process

which allowed Colby's characteristically mild, pleasant flavor, is what they say. His process replaces whey with water and reduces acidity. It takes slightly more than a gallon of milk to produce a pound of Colby. That's why it tastes so fucking gross. It's all milky. It's all milky and gross. There's no flavor. There's no nothing. It's going toky. It's all milky and gross. There's no flavor. There's no nothing.

It's going to make how much? And to cut the acidity. You want acidity. Otherwise, it's too mild. A gallon makes how much? A pound. A gallon weighs less than that. That's a fucking, or weighs more than that.

That's a lot. I mean, that seems to be, they're trying to tell you that's a shitload of milk, apparently. It's too much milk. And it's just too much. It's too much boat. It's a lot of milk. And that was milk, apparently. It's too much milk. And it's just too much. It's too much boat. It's a lot of milk. And that was in Wisconsin. Just too much milk.

It was. There you go. And they call it a Colby cheese because a Steinwand, nobody's eating that. No one's eating the old Steinwand. It was from Colby. So at the cheese factory, which Joseph Steinwand developed a new and unique type of cheese, and this was this shit here. The taste became known in the neighboring areas, and in 1898, an 1898 issue of the Colby Phonograph noted that, which is a newspaper,

a merchant in Phillips gives as one of 13 reasons why people should trade with him that he sells the genuine steinwand colby cheese so that's a big deal now after world war ii the 40s and early 1950s they had the cheese murders have you heard of the cheese murders no i did not know the cheese murders was a thing happens every day yeah it's people are just murdering the bowl usually, though. That's what it is. A cheese murdered this morning, man. Who's a rough one? I just ate about, I don't know, a quarter pound of mozzarella and a quarter pound of cheddar before coming over here. When you got here, I'm like, that's the most appropriate thing. You have no idea how appropriate that is.

You didn't know why. And then I'm like, Colby, Wisconsin. And I see him go, oh, that's what it is. I'm going to cheese murder when I get home. And I see him go, oh, that's what it is. I'm going to cheese murder when I get home. So this was like basically like a 90s East Coast, West Coast rap war between cheesemakers where cheesemakers and workers for cheese became scarce, like good cheesemakers. So they were like fucking like picking the best one.

They were like bidding against each other and stealing each other's cheese makers to the point where it escalated to murder to where the different factory owners were like putting hits out on other factory owners of cheese factories that's the most wisconsin thing i've ever heard seriously want to get it more wisconsin do you know how they made sure to tell people that it was over cheese i don't know that brett farve hired on cameo with a cheese head on going hey brother gonna we're gonna kill you over cheese pal you know that hold on a sec let me let me show you my penis because i think you're gonna all see it now let me get my wrangler jeans open i'm gonna show you my penis i show it to most people right i just used to send it to people but i could get it out to more people in this medium. I like it. Did he write the winner of the cheese on his penis?

I'm about to. They put they covered them in cheese. They put cheese over the bodies, like shredded cheese on top of them. Oh, that's how they like the Dave Chappelle joke, like sprinkle crack on it's like that sort of thing. That's unbelievable. And eventually the cheese, that's how they solved it. The cheese was traced back to the factories of the people who left the cheese behind and the murderers.

So they figured out the cheeses were different. I don't know if they got like one kid who's really discerning in cheese. And he's like, hmm, that's from the Jackson factory. I don't like that. That's the mild. I like that. Now, of course, none of this is true. No?

No, of course not. The rest of it was up until the cheese murders, because this town is fucking boring. I couldn't find any history. There's no cheese murders? No, of course not. No cheese murders. I just wanted to spice it up a bit. Throw a little Jack in that, Colby.

You know what I'm saying? Throw a little Jack in that, Colby, babe. Spice it up. It's all cheese all the time i look for anything in this town that has something sort of historic significance poor brad bar's reputation came into it and everything that's why he's besmirched like crazy we besmirched him up and down doesn't matter oh that's my favorite it's like well i mean literally all it was like they found cheese and then everybody just shut the fuck up and made cheese and nobody had any issues.

It was so boring. Yeah. They're just happy eating cheese. So and all. But now. The cheese. I'm sorry. Unbelievable.

It sounded believable. People stopped and went and searched Apple iTunes. There's got to be a podcast. There's got to be like a series about it. Yeah. Like a nine part series on the cheese murders of the late 40s and early 50s. People with a nice Parmesan spread on their face. Tune in for our new show, The Cheese Murders of Mid-20th Century Wisconsin.

That will be putting out soon. We should make up a podcast. That would be amazing. And they'll be like, you're never going to hear about this. They're covering it up. It's a big cover-up. You won't even find it online. How they put out Blair Witch and then and they'll be like you're never gonna hear about this they're covering it up it's a big cover-up do it like it's you don't even find it online how they put out blair witch and shit in the 90s like it's real it's real and just create a bunch of to make a bunch of websites and social media pages about it and shit pretend it's real

funny thing is colby cheese is no longer made in the town of Colby. Where's that now? Who the fuck knows? There's a factory east of town that cuts and packages it, but it's not made there. The former Colby Cheese factory is now a dilapidated building. Hilarious. So it's not even cheese anymore. Enjoy your Colby. Have fun, everybody. So I found a couple reviews of the town.

They're different than each other. And one, they love this place. And the other one, they have a very, very distinct beef, which is always the best thing. I can't believe you made that up. I don't know. It sounded like it was real, right? Convincing as shit. It could have been.

Could have happened. It could have happened. That's what I mean. We don't know it didn't. We've heard crazier shit in our town histories of people fighting over town records and, you know, people, a hundred people dying over paperwork. What the fuck are we talking about? That sounded, it was over business.

Sorry, everybody. I didn't mean to make you run for the Google there. Run for the old Googling. As fucking my grandmother would say. Made a story about cheese. Not cheesy at all. That was fucking brilliant. I loved it.

That's what happens when you're stoned at three in the morning. By the way, this edible should be kicking in any minute now, so we're going to have a lot of fun. So anyway, five stars, this first review. Five. Five stars. Quote, a small, quaint, little, rural-feeling town. That sounds like small-town murder. Everyone knows everybody here. That sounds like small-town murder. Everyone knows everybody here.

That sounds like a nightmare. You're surrounded by farmland but have lots of good amenities only four minutes down the road. They fucking timed it before they did the review. They had a little clock up. Four minutes? Four minutes. I'm marking it. Okay.

I'll save it for the review. Four minutes down the road. It's a wonderful place to raise kids, too. The school isn't really good, however. down the road, it's a wonderful place to raise kids, too. The school isn't really good, however. Then how the fuck is it a wonderful place? Why would you want to raise kids there with a shit school? What factors are good for raising kids?

Okay, number one, is it dangerous for them to go outside? Are they going to get hit by a stray bullet? I think that's it. Okay, that's one. And then two, how are the schools? They don't care. Only things that really matter. And they're like, great place.

Schools suck, though. Right. Okay. The kid's going to be dumb as shit. And they're like, great place. School suck, though. Right. OK. The kid's going to be dumb as shit. And job opportunities aren't that great here either. Well, this is sounding better and better. What are you talking about? Can't work in the five stars.

Five stars. Two things to improve on. But the rest, if you prefer small town living in Midwestern values, you've come to the right place. Oh, boy. And then this one here. Zero stars. Yeah. Went the complete opposite. And it's a he's a one issue voter here. values you've come to the right place oh boy and then this one here zero stars yeah i went the complete opposite and it's a he's a one issue voter here uh quote colby wisconsin water is all capital letters not of good quality okay not dangerous don't write a congressman or something

put this on a site that shows town statistics. Let's review it there. That makes sense. We'll help you. Quote, I've lived in Colby, Wisconsin for three years, and one of the first things I noticed was the poor quality of the water. It tastes disgusting. It is beyond hard water quality, in quotes, and it causes our skin to become super ashy and dry. It has also damaged our hair tremendously.

Wow. I know what our hair tremendously. Wow. I know what you're thinking. Yeah. Quote, maybe our home just has, has a hard water issues, right? Wrong.

All capital letters. It appears to have the same effect all through the tiny city of Colby. Zero stars. I've taken a poll and everybody's hair is demolished. I went door to door. We would, that's from k from colby and it has 118 people agree oh and 156 disagree so what the water quality is up in the air and

colby really up in the air you could buy a softener yeah that that maybe fix your issues k it could it's a i have a water softener because arizona's got terrible worst water fucking hard it's It's not natural. No. You shouldn't have water here. So anything they bring in, they're like, it's terrible and poisonous and smells like Cincinnati. So run it through something. Because it probably came here from Cincinnati.

Yeah, who knows? And it's picked up shit along the way. Jesus. And that's why it's so fucking hard. That's what it is. So people in this town here, 1900, they had 667 people. And then by 2000, or by now, let's just do now. Right now, there are 2000 people even.

Really? Yeah. So nobody go or come or go. You're good. Keep it there. Just keep it cool right now. Oh, nope. Somebody just had a heart attack from too much cheese.

Never mind. Fuck it. 1999 people. It's up 30% since 1990. So people are coming here. Why? why eats the shit out of me they think there's cheese there i think they're like let's go where the cheese is man they get there and leave what the fuck ain't no cheese here like well we cut and package it here i'll give a shit about no cutting and packaging i didn't ask about that did i that's crazy so they make it somewhere

else and then truck it here just to cut and package it. It's Colby cheese. Right. Pow. Why don't you do it from wherever the fuck you do it? I don't do that. Male, female populations are pretty normal with averages here. There's a shitload. The median age is about a year younger than normal.

It's 36 and a half here. Tons of kids here. A lot of zero to nine year olds. Like double the amount. And then there's triple the amount of 85 and over people really so just elderly and and children and dipshits that have yeah bad schools that have bad schools so those kids are in for a bad time with their terrible schools but the old people yeah they're doing fine as long as they don't drink the water so

married population and all that shit it's's about normal. I mean, nothing here is too far out of skew, except for there's less single with no children people here. That's about it. Everything else is on par. Now, race of this town, 76% white, and the rest of the town is retired Green Bay Packers. And Glenn Robinson also came here here i don't know no 76 white 0.0 black actually uh zero zero no black people anywhere in fact two thousand people in colby that's that's interesting it's just the whole town is just white and there's well speckles of yellow with cheese mixed in, which also white people holding blocks of cheese. So that's what is point seven percent Asian.

So not a lot of Asian people here either. Twenty one point four percent Hispanic. Fascinating. Which that's so it's just white people and Hispanic people. Nobody else. Yeah. Very weird. We don't we don't think we've ever had that before in a town.

Fifty eight point two percent of the people here are religious. So there's a little more religion uh here than normal but it's kind of a family okay kind of and it's where you get like it's mainly people with kids and all that midwest values james there you go 27.6 percent catholic how about that they beat the lutherans by over 10 catholics are yeah the baptists of cheese country yeah i suppose baptists of the lakes oh I suppose. Baptists of the Lakes. Oh, it's because of the Hispanic people. That's why. Why did that happen?

And then 16% Lutheran, obviously. 0.0% Jewish. Not into Colby Cheese, apparently. Not kosher. The Colby's not kosher, everybody. That's what we found out today. And 0.0% Islam as well. Politics suspended through the rest of 2020. You don't need to know. Look it up if you want. buddy that's what we found out today and 0.0 percent islam as well um politics suspended

through the rest of 2020 you don't need to know look it up if you want i don't need to hear shit because someone stuffed with cheese in wisconsin that i've never met voted a certain way i don't care so unemployment rate here how is that even whatever you have no idea it's crazy do they blame you ever for it information i'll get a message that that is like uh why do you guys do that and it's like what are you talking about we're just saying a statistic it's a it doesn't even open a can of worms for anything it literally tells you discuss anything we're just giving a that's how many people did that they're rarely mad it's just uh yeah it's a lot of questions and i'm like i'm not prepared to answer these for you it helps to

tell what people are like there i guess do i get to ask you shit that doesn't matter too is that what this is hey when you're at work um i saw you file that one report now couldn't you do that a different way i mean you could email it you don't have to hand it physically to me they'll take it on a p, right? It's all a filing. You're fucking offending me. We do appreciate the passion, though, and that's what's important here. So unemployment rate in this town is about normal, but like we said, we don't know what the hell that's going to look like once the stats come out for the whole year.

Median household income here is a little bit low. Normally almost $58,000. Here it is $45,000 even. It's a little bit low here and it makes sense uh more than 30 percent of the households here make 30 000 or less really so yeah that's there's a lower kind of a lower echelon of of you know economic that's people here in the structure and manufacturing is 33 percent of the jobs which is more than three times the average. That's not good.

Those are precarious. Those are good jobs when they're there, but if they go, then that's a third of the towns. They might work at two factories or something. Shut down the Colby factory. That's it. All the jobs are either manufacturing, making, slicing the cheese, basically, cutting and packaging the cheese. Retail, which is selling the cheese. This is the least money. And in healthcare, which is selling the cheese in the least money

and in health care which is the aftermath of eating all that cheese those are the only literally those are the three jobs that are here wow that's it just in the in furtherance of the cheese industry you either care for the cheese or you care for the people that eat it that eat too much of it that's all you got now uh cost of living in this town is about 77 out of 100 100 is regular uh housing is the low thing that's a 47 so housing is super low median home cost here 109 500 which is extremely low unbelievably affordable that's yeah and we'll see it really is about 50 of the houses are valued under 100 000 so000. What? So it's a lot. And if that's you are just, you're jonesing for some cheese, we have for you the Colby, Wisconsin Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $700, which is kind of in line with where the houses are.

Why the fuck would you? That's the thing. I found a two-bedroom, one-bath, 1,160-square-foot little house. Nice little house, though. $87,900. That's a good little starter house. You just get married or something. It's a good place to go.

I found a four-bedroom, two-bath, 1,680-square-foot house. You can sell that one once you have a couple of kids and move up to this one. There's a big workshop out back, like a garage slash workshop thing. I think everyone in Wisconsin probably has. Yeah. Put the car. And hang your hunting things, I assume, your carcasses in there. $127,900 for that.

With a detached garage. And a big workshop. That's awesome. It's a very good value then i found a four bedroom one and a half bath 1260 square feet yeah not great but on 160 acres oh sweet christ just of forest so i mean you can just make as much cheese as you want out there you could start your own avery family out there just to start putting junk cars in the backyard and you can you're the avery's now you scream 650 000 bucks for that it's a lot of land so i could see that things to do

this is i'm like what do they have cheese days right colby cheese days that's their most popular thing originated in 1965 as an event to promote cheese and colby cheese which is the backbone of the economy i am shocked that there is a a campaign to to to every there is not one person that hates cheese right i would think there can't be even people like cheese hurts me and i eat the shit out of i don't care even lactose intolerant people are jamming that anyway it's good it's it's amazing your body wants it it changes everything it's so good vegans don't Your body wants it. It changes everything. It's so good. Vegans don't like it that much. They like it, but they won't eat it.

Right. They only do it for whatever reason, but it's still delicious to them. It's good to everybody. They know. You know out there. So the events include the ATV poll. All right. That's some hillbilly shit right there.

I'll watch. That sounds awesome. Someone's going to wipe out and hurt themselves and get run over by someone else's atv so that could be fun the main street parade of course street dances the tractor pull once you've warmed up with the atv pull uh amusement midway and a bunch of you know yeah games you know blow up the clown's head with the water shit and plenty of free colby cheese says that i swear to god street dances in a town that's 80 white people no thank you white people eating cheese right so they're just farting as they've grooving and farting and not being all out of rhythm and shit is the worst street

dancing ever along with down home cooking and refreshments there's no down home there it's a weekend of entertainment and fun for the whole family the events are register for colby cheese day's race yeah and they have a race and another race and some book shit three on three basketball register registration begins with all those white people bunch of heavy set white people with very sweaty t-shirts on that when they post up on you you don't want to put your forearm on them like ah still doing shirts and skins yeah come on man it's better than with the guys with no shirts and having their back hair right coated in sweat that you have to get on you then there's a race and there's a bench pressing contest which is in front of the nicolette bank hey we're gonna go bench press down in front of the bank you

coming that's the most fucking goober thing i've ever heard set up a bench in front of the bank so there's yeah that's just wow that's amazing listen that nicole that works at the five o'clock shift she's hot as shit i want to impress her i'm gonna be getting my pump on hold on let me get some cheese yeah i need energy let me cheese up quick. Hey, Nicole. Nikki. You want some Coke? Nikki. I got nachos over here. Let me tell you what the meat is. So what else do they have?

Pedal tractor pull. That's in front of the bank, too. What? I guess you pedal things like a bank. The Colby Dunk Tank opens. And then the Colby Talent Competition from Central Wisconsin's Got Talent. Okay. I doubt it, but okay.

Not much. Then there's a weigh-in antique, a classic tractor show. Okay. And then live music with the Dweebs. Yeah. A variety rock band with a little comedy thrown in. Oh, no. shoot me in the fucking head uh play the song or don't play the song weird al who are you if you're not weird al don't stop it stop it and shut up they are from somerset wisconsin and a family band oh jesus they perform

in crazy costumes and like to call themselves the american party band hope to see you there i would rather cut my own fucking throat with a dull steak knife yeah repeatedly who the fuck no how did you get four friends to do this with you you asshole family they're related they have to it's blood that's the problem crime rate in this town what we're interested in and just a lot of cheese theft property crime is about 25 below the national average so it's pretty safe now murder or violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crimes is less than half the national average super safe under half the national average it's a safe little everybody has just got a cheese how much you can't eat a pound of cheese and then go wilding out in the streets and murdering people and i'm gonna go fuck shit up

no you're not you're full of cheese yeah sit down your blood is slowing you get up and go oh jesus never mind hold on i gotta i might have to poop soon actually or never again i'm not sure which one either immediately or next week how wild is that i'm not sure which what this cheese is going to do to me there's no other food that does that they're going to liquefy my insides or cement it i'll be good i can go like on an iditarod and not have to shit it's gonna be like i drank x last or or took i don't know a handful of of percocet one of the two either one so that's what's happening there that said that all taken care of. Let's talk about a murder. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that

is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast.

We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts murder okay okay let's do this now i'm gonna talk about a couple of people first of course um set this whole thing up first of all we have to go back in time our story is going to take place about around 1990 in the late 80s. I don't know what the fuck was going on in like 88, 89, 90, 91,

but we've had so many of the craziest murders that we've talked about come from that few year period. There was angry people. I don't know what was happening in this world, but people had like crazy ideas

of how to murder. I got an idea. And that's when like Jeffrey Dahmer was caught. And like, it's just that time period. That's the happiest time of my life. I'll figure this out.

Yeah. It's just very strange. No, I guess it wasn't. That's the happiest time of your life? I mean, in general, growing up, I remember that. You're happier now, I hope, right? Well, yeah. But I mean, that's the happiest time of my childhood was like early 90s.

I remember like the coolest things happened. Yeah, that's true. But you couldn't pay me to relive five seconds of my childhood was like early 90s i remember like the coolest things happened yeah that's true but you couldn't pay me to relive oh i don't want five seconds of my childhood over again i wish i could go back to high school not me not even for a fucking minute no especially with the knowledge of people like if i knew what i knew now i go back no if i knew what i knew now i would strangle people in high school i'd be like do you know how useless this fucking is do you have any idea yeah i know what i'm going to use from this and it's very little it is very little you have no idea this i would have dropped out like i said this before i would have dropped out in the eighth

grade if i knew this was going to be my fucking life because i don't need i can read and that's pretty much all i need at this point i mean i did about as as funny anyway as you can to graduate so i i wouldn So I would never. Imagine doing that again. Imagine people that are in like groups and shit in high school. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Societies or whatever the fuck they're called.

Yeah, I just looked at them like, and I wasn't like, ah, fuck those people. I was always like, wow, how did they know when to go sign up and stuff? Right, how did you know that existed? I didn't know that existed. I didn't know until you told me you were a part of it. That's what I mean. How did you know? That's what I always used to think of things.

How did you know to do that? How did you know to sign up for that? Where did you go? Right. Where did you look? What day did they talk about this? Did I miss that? Was I in there?

No, they kept it from me intentionally. Don't tell him about it. He'll show up and I think the counselors tell kids like yeah you would be good for this because I know that you're smart people like they don't tell me people like us they weren't telling anything they were like no no school's over at 2 30 and then you go home that's how it works you get the fuck out of here that's how it works and you go home and then you come back the next day go to only the classes you're scheduled for and then you come back the next day. Only the classes you're scheduled for, and then you leave. These are for kids that we know are going to be lawyers later, not for you.

They're trying. Right. See? You're not. They're going to matter. That's what our high school existence was. Anyway, let's talk about some people. Let's talk about a guy first named Dean Allen.

Okay? He's not a dean. His name is Dean Allen. Dean Allen sounds like- Two first names. Okay. He's not a, not a Dean. His name is Dean Allen, which he's Dean Allen. Sounds like names. Yeah. And it sounds like, like,

like an animal house. Yeah. He replaced Dean. Dean Allen's in here now. Shit. Now, how are we going to fool him? I hear he's smarter.

So, uh, he was born October 2nd, 1966, uh, Mr. Allen. And he's a high school dropout.

Okay. Okay. High school. Yeah. Drops out in like the 10th grade. Oh, Mr. Allen. And he's a high school dropout. Okay. Okay. High school. Yeah. Drops out in like the 10th grade. Oh. Though that's. He figured it out early.

Yeah. He was like, I don't need any of this. They didn't tell me about the Honor Society. That's when I fucking quit. I already know. I didn't know about the chess club. You know how to play chess? No.

But I would have liked to have known about it. You never know. I could have. Drama club. I knew that it existed. I didn't know where to go. I could be a prodigy. You have no idea.

No one's ever given me the opportunity to try. You ever think of that too? Yeah. If there's any like piece of like crazy talent that you just didn't know how to unlock, you might be the greatest clarinet player ever to walk the face of the earth and you don't know it because you've never picked up a clarinet. I may have been an amazing actor and I just, i'm not trained because nobody told me where to go well but val kilmer knew when he was fucking eight how does that possible a natural talent you don't have

much actual natural aptitude for that you're fine no you're fine if as long as someone as long as the lines aren't in front of you if you memorize them you'd be fine but you know what i mean like some crazy prodigy thing like at four someone played on the piano and they're holy shit i can't teach this child anymore like bobby fisher yeah that's what i mean i never who knows i didn't try anything you know we had nintendo and it just fucked it all up changed the whole game man i had shit that's what it was problem i was bored and i had other shit to do you know so anyway uh he drops out of high school and he goes to the Job Corps in McKinney, Texas. Oh, boy.

McKinney, Texas Job Corps. Yeah. Here in the early 80s. Oh, my. Oh, boy. Oh, yeah. The biggest fuck-ups. Yeah.

Have you ever known Job Corps people? Yep. I have, too. We talked about it in that Job Corps murder one in Washington or whatever. Yeah. I've met him. I had one living in my house for like 10 days kid i worked with was at the job core i would never allow it let him stay there and then i was like you gotta go i put him on a bus to las vegas

i swear to god i took him to the greyhound stage i was like i don't know dude you gotta go not here it ain't happening here anymore like i'm not doing it i mean some it works for people it i mean they've done it i know their success stories, it wouldn't still exist. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. But the majority of people, and I've seen Job Corps videos on Twitter and shit. It's just fighting in there. Oh, it's just people assaulting each other. Oh, the kids that I had, it was like basically they could go there or jail.

That's why they were there. Like, they worked at the bar I worked at. Dangerous people. Yeah, like we just chose here rather than jail. They were cool. I hung out with them. Let one stay at my stay in my house but you know still it was like fuck man this place is crazy yeah so while he's there he meets a young lady because the ladies of job core yeah are a special breed they put out well yeah since an involuntarily young age that's the problem jimmy's laughing obviously that's not funny but no it's surprising and probably more true and that's the depressing that's that edible there so anyway that's what happens i gotta be careful so yeah careful. So yeah, he meets this young lady, and she's not had any of those problems that we know of, by the way.

So that was just an aside. So his name is Dean Allen. Her name is Janice Allen. Well, that works perfectly. Same fucking spelling and everything. I'd do some questioning real quick. Where's your mom from? Because mine's from here.

Be like on Reno 911 when there's... You got an uncle somewhere? Yeah, yeah. What? I've been there, yeah. Oh, shit, you're my cousin. Start asking some questions. Apparently they are not related at all.

Great. But they have the same, Alan's a common last name, especially A-L-L-E-N. They both spell it. So they end up getting together and within a year they get married wow he is 16 years old and she is 20 years old oh well good for him first of all

yeah he's psyched she's she's got some experience she's you know a teenage young lady in the job core right is usually he'd just been i don't mean sexual experience just world experience she's she's seen some shit that's what i mean she's done things she's seen things so uh they end up getting uh together here and they get married april 28th 1983 in texas in texas down in mckinney texas which is i guess near dallas uh he's 16 she's 20 his mom had to sign the papers for it because he was underage yeah because he's 16 it's rare that it's that way that's what i mean that's really impressive well i mean if it was the other way

around we'd be like how what jail can we put him in you know what i mean where is this room good for him is that weird because yeah because we were 16 yeah that's why i was a 16 and i have a teenage son now my son is 13 and when he's 16 i i wouldn't be like oh my god you've you know assaulted him he was eight it's a different story obviously but 16 and it's 16 year old boy is a is different than a 16 year old girl right yeah in terms of like i would say in terms of like uh i don't know i a 16 year old boy doesn't even need to be kept in the house they could be kept like on a dog chain with a bowl outside as long as they had something to hump every kept in the house they could be kept like on a dog chain with a bowl outside as long as they had something to hump every once in a while they'd be fine way different

than a 16 year old girl yeah that's why 16 year old boys are animals i've been a 16 year old boy we were animals right just a pure the other part is that disgusting a girl can do a lot of things uh to maintain her life and her trajectory forward. What am I trying to say? I don't know. I have no idea. I'd love to know. It can be fucked up really easily by a dude staying too long.

You know what I'm saying? Yes. Yes. You're right. And then he can run away and never to be seen again. Oh, yeah. There's a lot more. And then she's stuck with this child. Yeah.

There's a lot more. You can fuck a girl's life up a lot easier than a dude's. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, they have a physical way of anchoring responsibility to them. So it's a different thing. Yeah, a teenage boy has a way different mindset with the world because they can just go, I'm going to spread my seed. That's great.

But what about the consequences of the people you're fucking dropping it in asshole so that's that's why teenage boys don't think of that shit and even if she's mature enough to handle that responsibility in the next nine months she still has nine months that she's got to deal with this stuff yeah and it's a lot of responsibility

and some women do it and that's amazing wow when you hear those stories of like somebody's successful and like yeah my mom was like a single mom at 16 and raised with like jesus christ that's a fucking poof my mother i'm blown away she made it not bad it's impressive shit it really is so he says uh or his her mom his mom says quote i really didn't want him to get married but they were living together and i wanted them to get married if they were living together. So that makes sense.

He's attracted to her and it's easy. Their names are the same. So they get married. Don't have to do extra paperwork. Literally no name changes. That's perfect. Also, Janice has already been married once. Oh, really?

She is divorced and has a two year old daughter. OK, so she's 20 year old job core person with a divorce and a two-year-old at 20 in the job corps. So, yeah, she's had life experience is the best way to put it, just general life experience that he just hasn't had. He dropped out of high school and went to the job corps. That's not a lot of heartbreak. No, it's just nothing. I mean, we don't even know if he's gotten laid before that. It's just nothing.

I mean, we don't even know if he's gotten laid before that. You know, we have really the heartbreak that he may have may or may not have experienced at this point. Mostly self-inflicted. It feels like. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. He could have figured it out and stayed in school.

I mean, granted, there's some environmental shit. There is. Stop it. Yeah, definitely. For the most part. There's things you can do. But as well in his situation, there was things he had. His mom was there. He doesn't have like a, you know, a family life where life where it's like oh jesus his mom's like a heroin addict

and his dad's gone and like that's not his family life so this was a path he chose and i think it was more of he wanted to do more of a vocational thing anyway so school he wanted to be a carpenter okay that was what he wanted to do so school that and learn that yeah he said i don't need need this i'll go to the job corps i'll learn actual skills and i'll go get an actual job in the workforce and and also back then too that was thought of as that was a thing you could do that was the thing you could do and yeah it was a little easier anyway than now so there's other people that we're going to talk about oh also they have two more children. Okay. Of theirs. Sort of. We'll talk about it. Yeah.

Two more children, both sons, Dean and Daniel. So, like we know, if you listen to Crime and Sports, the number one rule is not to name your kid after yourself. The junior thing. No juniors. Bad things happen. It's certainly a curse. This is a bad thing here. So, let's talk about another fella here.

Robert Pogue. P-O-G-U-E. Yeah. Pogue. Okay okay you want to see him i'm gonna show you this guy oh yeah oh yeah now describe describe his hair uh alan jackson wishes his hair was this amazing it's a helmet it is so much hair with a big mullet he's got one of those big brushes in his back pocket those big like squishy brushes where he goes, and it makes the noise as he's going through his hair, and it makes it puffier. He has the hair of a truck stop waitress. It is amazing.

Yes, now. A truck stop waitress now, or like a rock star in 1982. I mean, it's a fucking, it's a helmet. It looks bulletproof. Van Halen's impressed. Yeah, it's awesome. Well, even bulletproof. Van Halen's impressed. Yeah, it's awesome. Well, even more now. Poor Eddie. So anyway. He didn't have great hair when he left.

No, he really didn't. Well, I mean, he was 65. What do you want from the guy? This guy, on the other hand, though. Unbelievable. A fucking warrior. A follicle warrior. Look at that neck knot line, too. That's a scoop. Hey, I got a scoop for you, buddy. And his sleeves are short short that's a lady's

top it might be look at the cut of the sleeves yeah not to make fun but that's a lady's top where it hangs on the shoulder it's a bit it's a bit over there it's a lady's top yeah that's a big scoop yeah it's a big scoop i mean that's fine if you want to dress like that but this is like 1982 and he's got like this big yeah he's seeing a mustache he seems like this masculine guy and he's like hey i got this in the young missus section very strange so now he comes from his family used to live in california very odd migration of this family okay they're trying some little everything in this country california to texas they lived in california then moved to naca what is it nACA docious Texas how do you say that oh uh NACA goat it's docious right D-O-C-H-E-S uh N-A-C-O-G-D-O-C-H-E-S that is NACA docious NACA docious NACA chodas NACA chodas I

don't know NACA docious it sounds like it like a compliment like it's the most NACA docious extra special papalicious you, making up fucking happy words. Well, I keep thinking Alamogordos or Algodones. There's different ones, but that's that one is not it. And then there's also Knocko, Arizona. Yes. That just doesn't have the docious at the end. No docious.

Right. What is it? We're sans docious in this state. But they're D-O-C-H-E- there... D-O-C-H-E-S? D-O-C-H-E-S. Nakadocious. Nakadocious. Nakadocious.

It's Nakadocious. It's the most Nakadocious town in all of Texas, bro. Get on down here. Woo! Grow your hair out. Put this scoop on. Yeah, it'll be like 1991, like Dan Cortez will be running around the MTV Beach House. It's the most knockadocious ever, bro.

Tell him, Pauly Shore. It's knockadocious. Bro. Bro. It's the weasel. Right. The most knockadocious. Come see Son-in-Law in theaters, man.

It's the most knockadocious movie you're ever going to see. Actually, it was more like Encino Man back then. It probably was. But that's fine. movie you're ever going to see actually more like encino man back probably was but that's fine so at they moved to texas where the pogue where the pogue where the pogue that's the name of his band where robert pogue meets dean allen and janice allen and all those people and we'll find out how they all intertwine and marry and it's a fucking disaster so but during all this his the rest of his family moves to wisconsin from texas okay so they went from california to texas to abbotsford wisconsin

which is near colby okay so like it's like the next town over just running those are very different places i can't express to you how different those three places are from each other i can see that migration happening today though. Going from like LA and being like, I don't like this. I'm going to Texas. Then they get there and like, this is far too Texas.

This is Texas. This is too much Texas. Where are people not dicks? Where are they not dicks? Wisconsin. They're very nice here. They're very nice. Okay,

good. I'm going to Texas. It's a little too much Texas. And by the way, our fans in Texas are fucking great. They're really cool. And all of them are like, I'm sorry you have to come here. Every one of them is like, I'm sorry you have to come here to do this. I know it's not good.

And then we'll be like, yeah, we got pulled over by the cops and all this shit. Fucking Texas hates us. And they're like, we know. Every one of them smile and they go, how do you like Texas? Because they know I'm going to hate it. That's you. They know I'm going to hate it. That's you. They know I'm going to hate it. They know you're going to love it.

They don't even ask me. They're like, he must fucking. How you doing with this? How much Texas is this for you, Whistler? A lot of Texas. Because we already know how he feels. You're like, 24 hours is good on Texas. It's like Vegas.

It's like, you know Vegas? It's like, that's just a lot of vegas after a day you go to texas to monitor how texas is doing then you go this is how it's doing and i'm getting the fuck out of here like the people used to go like check on the selma marches in the city let's see what's going on down there let's go check on texas too many fires see what's happening okay yep still still texas still happening going so anyway they uh Okay. Yep.

Still Texas. Still happening. So anyway. It's a bizarre state, the way it all lays, I guess. I don't know. It's an interesting place. It's fascinating. It's a lot.

Arizona's kind of a similar-ish place if you just mix in a drop of California. It's just very specific in each area. It's not all the same. You know what I mean? Well, Texas is bigger than like half of Europe, so it it's very different people it's huge for fuck's and there's not just desert between it no way for those joe rogan's leaving la and going to texas i'm like calm down he's going to austin yeah he's not going he's not going to texas he's not going to san antonio you're gonna find him in fucking lubbock when he starts walking down the river walk let us know until then it's austin and it's austin's we've been there it's a pretty cool place i bought edibles in the middle of the

street that's true literally in the middle of the street from a man who was wearing a hat with weed leaves all over it like a peacock bloom so that's not that's not really texas that's a little different than texas it's not really amarilloillo. No, I was like, this is okay. I like it here. Holler when you see Joe Rogan in some ostrich boots. Give me a call. So when his family moved up to Wisconsin, he stayed behind because he ended up meeting a lady. Let's talk about it.

He met a lady named Ann. Now, people say that his most prized thing in the world here toward the late 80s is his two pet pit bulls. They're his favorite thing in the world. His sister, Felicia, says that he and his future wife here, Anne, he and Anne didn't have any children. The pit bulls were like his children. So that's how it worked there. And yeah, so eventually, Jesus Christ, here's how this works. Now, okay, Pogue, Robert Pogue is Dean Allen's best friend.

Yeah. Okay. He's his best friend for multiple reasons. One, because they're friends. But two, because, okay, Pogue was Allen's best friend and was married to Allen's aunt, Marilyn. Okay. So he's his uncle. So kind of. But his his aunt marilyn is only

eight months older than him so everybody's the same age this is yeah this is when you start getting some like hillbilly math with ages and shit like you get ants that are younger than fucking yeah nephews when you're right when you're younger than you that's weird there's some strange gaps in in breeding i don't know what's going on. So Janice Allen, who was Dean's wife there. Okay, that's that. Now, okay, Dean Allen's mother, Judy Allen. Oh, I'm sorry.

That's, wow, this is confusing. Oh, boy. Janice's mother, Judy Adams, okay, is her mother. Okay. Okay, Janice's mother, Dean's wife her mother. Janice's mother. Dean's wife's mother. Dean's mother-in-law is Adams. And whoa, Jesus Christ.

Pogue and Dean Adams became friends. And then during the time, Marilyn had a date. Robert Pogue had a date with Marilyn, who was his aunt. So that's how that worked. And then after a while, that didn't work out. So Robert ended up dating Marilyn's youngest sister. And so that's how he became married to Anne.

So he married. So, OK, Robert went out with one of Dean Allen's aunts. OK. Robert went out with one of Dean Allen's aunts. Okay. And then when that didn't work out, ended up going out with his youngest aunt who was actually younger than Dean Allen, if I'm not mistaken. That is wild.

So that's how this all works. Okay. Do you have your board out and everybody got your, your strings connected to gross? Okay. It's a lot of family. The strings spell gross. Is that supposed to do that?

No, I think. Hold on. It's a curse of gross. That's what it says. It spells to do that? No, I think. Hold on. It's a curse of gross. That's what it says. It spells knockadocious. That's what it spells. Yeah. All right.

It's a knockadocious good time. That's what it spells. So, yeah. Dean Allen is the son of Judy Adams. So, I'm sorry. That wasn't Janice's mom. That's his mom. Okay.

Judy Adams is Dean Allen's mom. Judy Adams is, okay, Ann Pogue who was robert's wife right married to robert pogue who is oh jesus christ the sister of dean's mom so yes he's married to dean's aunt uh she is nine months older than dean that's how that works okay now all right this is fucking insane it's too much it's a lot so So Pogue is older than Dean, though. He's a few years older than Dean and the aunt. And I think he's more like Janice's age. Got it.

So, yeah. So anyway. Wow. Okay. So they ended up, the two couples ended up living together in a trailer in Texas in Nagadosha at one point. Dean's aunt, Robert Pogue, and his wife all in a trailer in texas in nagadoshas at one point dean's aunt robert pogue and his wife all in a trailer yeah dean janice married couple robert pogue his wife and all living in one trailer two couples one trailer nagadoshas texas it's a lot of bodies not gonna do that shit texas

no no no no no no no no no no no no no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Ann was thinking they were going to reconcile this relationship. More on that later. A little bit more about Dean. Now, Dean's got some jealousy issues, as we'll talk about. Because he's a child that's married. Yeah, so if you're married when you should be a sophomore, there's a problem there. You know what I mean? You need at least... Emotionally immature.

Yeah. It's a thing that they say. You know what? Maybe that's what high school is good for to just to the forcedness of sitting there and listening to something you don't want to hear is the only training for marriage that you can really have so he should do that it's preparation for life preparation for life that's i'm not just marriage marriage is part of life in general it's preparation for life life is sitting there listening to shit you don't want to hear yeah so that's what you got to do you're gonna you're gonna be taking a bunch of this shit for the rest of your life just sit

through it motherfucker so uh yeah the first incident that happened a 24 year old man named stephen murphy uh had an affair with janice janice has a shitload of affairs by the way janice everybody she works with encounters she is just all over god damn it man all over nagadosha's boy do that fine live that life just don't be married and put somebody through that it's all the time it's like he's like at one point he's in the army and she's cheating on him all he's like doing maneuvers and stuff i'm like oh this poor that sucks so anyway um uh but then again he ends up cheating too so it's a it's a and these two... It's a thing. If you get together at 16 and 20 at the job corps,

I don't know how stable of a marriage you can expect. And it might be that if you might have a few rocky years where you figure out how to be an adult couple, and then who knows, maybe when they're 30, everything will be fine, and they'll figure out that they like each other and they don't want anybody else. Or they want that relationship and you're okay with it.

It doesn't sound like he does. No. Well, yes. Stephen Murphy, who's 24, had an affair with Janice Allen. And she ended up moving in with this guy for a little while in the fall of 1989 in Tyler, Texas. Murphy says that one day he was doing his laundry at her home there. murphy says that one day he was doing his laundry at her home there and all of this all of a sudden out of nowhere dean allen burst into the house wielding a pool cue threatening to kill him so he says i'll break this pool cue and stab you with it and all sorts of shit and beat you to death and

you know the guy's like holy jesus christ so that was one thing Then there was another time when Janice Allen worked at a Denny's in Tyler, Texas, and had an affair with a guy named Joe Trejo who worked at the Denny's with her. This is some low level cheating right here. This is like if you say, let's do a quickie while the moons of my hand over Miami are cooking. That's some low level shit right there. Oh, my. I got to drop off this gland grand slam then you can do me in the storage room is not what you want to hear how you put together that lumberjack slam yeah i am just dripping just bend me over the dry goods because i'm ready to roll

fucking no put me over the powdered eggs that's it the powdered eggs in the i'm sure giant garbage bag full of hash browns right Right. Fed me over it. I'm sure that's how they come at Denny's, right? Sounds like it. Like one of those leaf bags that people have in the fall back east, just a giant one. Yeah, it says Toro on the side of it. Yeah, it's a big Toro leaf bag

full of hash browns. That's how they chop them. You put it on the suction side and you just throw the potatoes through it and it threads off. Right in the bag. That's how it works them. You put it on the suction side and you just throw the potatoes through it and it treads off. Right in the bag. That's how it works.

Right in there. It's like a wood chipper. A sleep flow. Yeah. Just throw potatoes in there. One after the other. Chucking them. That's how they come out.

Then they feed them to you. Yeah. Well, these two have an affair over them. Enjoy them. So Joe and Janice had an affair. to you yeah uh well these two have an affair over them enjoy them so joe and janice had an affair now in december 1989 uh trejo here was leaving janice's apartment early in the morning you know obviously yeah and he gets into his car thinking everything's all right and as he gets into his car he hears a clicking sound and he sees dean holding a gun to his head. Dean fucking waited for him outside and then put a gun to his head.

Oh, my God. Ordered him to move over in the car, got in the car and drove it. Okay. Started driving. While they were driving a little bit, Trejo throws a cup of coffee that he had that he brought out with him in Dean's face and dives out of the car. He gets out of the fucking car while it was traveling 45 miles an hour. Oh, good Christ.

He threw the coffee, just opened the door and fucking dove, dude. Like, splash, dive. That's a man who recognizes danger. He's like, okay. Imagine the pump up for that. You can't just throw the coffee and then chicken out on the fucking duck and roll because then he's got a gun and his eyes are burning and he's

gonna shoot you so he's really gonna be pissed now you fucked my wife and burned my face so you gotta really like i gotta do this in one motion boom out i'm out fucking roll man wow that's the guy that recognizes danger and what he would do if he caught somebody fucking his wife yeah this guy's gonna kill me he is gonna dismember me i feel i should probably jump out of this car that's i mean that's honestly a wild move that's someone who is surviving right there most people don't have the balls yeah most people don't have the balls to do that they're like i'll try to talk him out of killing me i'm not gonna dive out of a car while it's going 45 miles an hour play to

a sensitive side so then this gets worse trejo once he regained his footing started running away and the car screeched to a halt and he fired three shots at him from the fucking car so this guy and uh good for trejo he he was right he was running he's gonna shoot him yeah he's running away and this is i mean this will tell you he will never have an affair with anybody else's wife ever again. After this, this is the end of it. He's learned any woman comes up and even smiles at him. He's going to go. You get the fuck away from me.

Like, I'm just I'm I was going to ask you if I could take your order. He's like, I don't care. Get away from me. I don't want to hear. He's looking at left hands for the rest of his life. Yeah. Where's that ring? So anyway, he fired three shots.

Then Dean Allen chases after him. And Trejo was like limping because he dove out of a 45 mile an hour car. He's not in his best running phase right now. So Dean Allen ends up fucking tackling him, catching up with him wrestling around with them eventually somehow somehow uh they from a wrestling match and with a gun and everything else it turns into dean calmed the fuck down and chilled out was like all right fine we'll stop wrestling i'm not gonna kill you and they drove back together what the fuck is happening they drove back together uh He warned Trejo that he would kill him if he ever caught him with Janice again. They drove back together and he's like, you drive me back to my place and you can take your car and leave and don't ever fucking be with my wife again because I'll kill you.

And I'm sure Trejo believed him at that point. Yeah. Said this motherfucker serious. Yeah. He will kill me. I will not talk to his wife anymore. And he didn't call the cops on him. No.

Wow. He just took it as. Yeah. I'm lucky I didn't get. He told somebody and they were like, you fucked his wife anymore and he didn't call the cops on him no no he just took it as yeah i'm lucky i didn't get he told somebody and they were like you fucked his wife man yeah like you're lucky he didn't kill you so happens in texas i think honestly someone probably said you're lucky he didn't kill you that's wow what a nice guy yeah like honestly in the end of it's like i mean shit lucky he didn't kill you right in the driveway yeah he i mean he doesn't know this guy maybe he would he could have said i saw a man coming out of my home in the early morning i assumed he just broke into my house and fucking raped or killed my wife so i fucking shot him in the head yeah that's all he could have said in texas he could have probably got away with that probably

if he said that i didn't know that guy on his property i'll bet they do i didn't know the guy i saw him coming out of my house with a cup of coffee. He killed my whole family and kids and took a cup of coffee. No, I don't think so. So anyway, the Pogues back to them, back to Robert and Ann, they have some marriage difficulties. And so that causes. Well, at that point, Dean and Janice are living at Fort Hood in Killeen, Texas, because he's in the army. Now, while Dean is in the army, they invite the Pogues to move in with them.

And that's when that's when they live together there. Now, Robert and Janice at this point, Robert Pogue and Janice, while everything was going on, they start fucking each other at this point. Oh, no. OK, so they're living in the same house they start fucking each other and eventually uh janice ends up moving out on dean and moving in with robert oh leave leaving dean and his aunt in the house together in the trailer together this is a disaster robert needs out of this this is i mean this may have been a blessing in disguise. You can just fucking walk away.

Yeah, this is, you know, so Pogue and Janice and Dean Allen for a while, because when they had problems first and moved out and then Dean and then Janice and and Robert started fucking. And so that's how that happened. When the three of them lived together there so this is a little bit weird uh considering when alan was in the was in this is a known thing by the way yeah this because this is happening in 89 back in 1987 alan dean was doing on army maneuvers in germany and janice allen and robert had had an affair then. Of course. And she got pregnant. Oh, no. And Janice's son, Daniel, was born the next year. And everybody's pretty sure that it's Robert's because, you know, fucking dude was overseas.

Yeah. But everybody just pretends like it's Dean's, including Dean, even though he knows it's not his. God. So this is a, imagine the seething and the bubbling under the surface and the weird vibes and what's going this is a mess that's happening right now so uh he he said he always treated him as his own son he just pretended like he was his son even though he pretty was sure he wasn't his son yeah the math doesn't work out just doesn't work out cauldron is boiling it's a miracle yeah no it's not so uh and then also another weird thing alan and uh later on

alan dean and robert got in a fight as well in 1990 early 1990 january of 1990 uh and pogue dean's aunt and robert's wife if you're if you're following the tree took Dean to a trailer home outside Nagadoshis where Robert and Janice were living because Dean refused to believe that his wife was having an affair and living with his best friend. So she had to show him.

She had to show him. She had to go, trust me, he's my husband. I'd rather that wasn't happening either, but I'm taking you there to fucking show you what's going on. So he did. And later, Dean went back to the trailer on his own once he dropped his aunt off, cut the phone line to the trailer, kicked in the door and confronted Robert with a shotgun.

Wow. This is... Slaved in the 4-4. Get a divorce, dude. It was a shotgun? A shotgun now. Why would you? This is the third man you've had to threaten murder over because they're fucking your wife.

At some point, it's your wife. At some point, this relationship isn't working and you're with the person who is not going to be faithful to you and it's not anybody else's fault except for whatever you guys got going on. Wow. It ain't his fault. It's not the guy at Denny's fault. It's not anybody else's fault.

You're taking it out on the wrong people. Wrong person. Yeah. He never blames Janice for any of this but he threatens that's how he his thing is don't blame her but threaten you know if i get the guy away from her to not come back then it's over but it's like well then she's just going to find somebody else and that's what she always does so it's kind of rough here so um confronts him with a shotgun uh the guy who also lived there with robert a guy named uh sam skinner uh he owned the trailer he uh he said that pogue has everybody got so many goddamn roommates that's what i mean

fuck he said that this escalated to the point of he's pointing the shotgun at pogue and pogue grabbed the shotgun and they wrestled over it and And a shot. God! The shotgun was shot into the roof of the trailer, you know, blowing holes through the fucking aluminum foil that covers the goddamn thing. Lifting the thing off the ground. Yeah, sure did. It all just fell down. It was just a flat. It was just a flat surface and it was done. All the walls came apart.

All the walls, yeah. Like a cartoon. And they're just standing in there with a shotgun looking around in their underwear for some reason furniture all over yeah so yeah he shot a shot that went through the like upper ceiling and into the wall and shit like that and uh no one was injured in this so uh when he the skinner guy asked dean why he damaged the trailer why'd you fuck up my trailer dude i own that thing and dean said that uh that quote it was it's his your own fault for letting that guy stay here that's what you're gonna get fuck you so february of 1990 with no cops being called no no none of it there

is no police involvement in any of this no one calls the cops there's no police reports fucking incredible this is just people confront each other with shotguns yeah blasts happen in the middle of trailer parks and everybody goes nah i'm sure it's fine and then they flick and keep watching tv that's what's going on here this is not the texas that joe rogan moved to this is wild so february february that was january 1990 so february 1990 obviously things are out of control here yeah clearly yeah so robert pogue and janice allen pack up the three kids her first daughter and the two boys right and move to colby wisconsin together okay in may of 1980 near anaheim california dorothy jane scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell.

She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever

you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky and part comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes,

you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced.

She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran,

Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. We're getting out of here. New start. New life. His family lives up there. We're getting out of here. Getting away from this whole mess.

Okay. So they moved all the way there. Pogue's mother and stepfather lived in abbotsford like we said they had moved up there right and they the the robert and janice move up to wisconsin they stay with robert's family for a little while like a month or so not even two weeks they stay there and then they end up renting a one-bedroom apartment with three kids which i don't know great terrific three kids two pit bulls one bedroom that's not math doesn't work five people two dogs one bedroom no sorry that's not good enough math

i'm sorry whoever rented them that should have been like no i know i can't do it i can you can have one child and one dog those are the rules that's otherwise no more than that whatever money you give me in security deposit, you know that's not coming back, right? You know that. You already know that. Between your dogs and your kids, you're fucked in a tiny apartment.

It's at 304 and a half Division Street. Okay. So if you have a half address, you have three kids is too many for a half. Right. For any address that's a half and two dogs. Now, Robert immediately, Robert's a butcher by trade. Okay.

Very, very good with knives. He can make a lot of money. He knows how to take things apart. Yeah. Very well. Yeah. We'll put it that way. Okay.

With knives. Yeah. Especially mammals and things like that. He knows how to carve them up. Things with bones and such. Where there's joints, how they come apart. Yeah. That sort of shit.

knows how to carve them up and such where there's joints how they come apart yeah that sort of shit so he works in the meat department of century foods in albert and abbotsford and janice works briefly at the colby cafe yeah whoo-hoo yeah and then later gets a job with at the same place he works century foods so uh janice has a nine-year-old daughter enrolls her in colby elementary school yeah they're gonna to be Wisconsinites. Shit education. So they start packing on a couple of pounds. So he's a meat cutter. He likes his hobbies, Robert.

He has some hobbies. He enjoys some loud music. He's one of those. Tell by the hair. Some speed wagging on, brother. You know what I mean? He's wanting to woo some Speedwagon on, brother. You know what I mean? His dream is to be like in Billy Madison when Adam Sandler pulls up with the T-top Firebird

and the REO Speedwagon blaring out. I think it was REO Speedwagon. No, it was Stroke Me. So it was... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What the fuck is his name? God damn it. I'm sorry.

Billy Squire. Billy Squire. There you go. He's wearing an REO Speedwagon shirt. He'd be like, man, that's some kind of lifestyle right now. Brother, I'll tell you what, if I had that... That sounds great. Yep, he was real into, like, hot rod racing.

He liked going to the hot rod races and shit like that, which, that's fun. You'd have hung out with this guy, I think. I could get down with this. So, yeah, he seems like a good guy. Or fun, anyway. And he brings steak, too. And he's going to bring meat. And he said that he told his sister he planned to buy they're gonna try to buy a house in the area that's why they were renting an apartment for a while they're

gonna try to find something yeah so uh anyway there uh he wants to be closer to his family makes sense so uh once they move there she like I said, the kids in school and everything like that. While this is going on, though, in February of 1990, right after they got there, they just move into the apartment. Janice starts writing letters to Dean and calling him on the phone, asking her, asking him to come to Wisconsin and bring them back to Texas because she doesn't like it there anymore. She hates it. Robert told his mom also at one point. This is a quote from his mom. Quote, he told me she didn't like it there.

She was unhappy and bored. I started to cry and I said, Robert, I don't want to lose you again because she was thinking he was going to go move up there. And this is when he just got back from the army. Or that's not. I'm sorry. So she thought, you know, you're going to move away away from me you just moved to wisconsin now you're gonna move away right so uh back to texas again so uh she is indecisive she knows nothing difficult yeah she's a bit difficult so as to be married to as a spouse so what has dean been up to he's

been working for lm mcneely which is a company and a man as well as a carpenter in nagadoshas and uh here uh he his hobbies let's get in his hobbies a little he likes hunting and fishing and playing pool yeah yeah he's that guy hunting fish and playing pool oh yeah uh he's a good carpenter carpenter specialty is cabinets he's a very good cabinet builder which there's good money in that if you fuck yeah you build custom cabinets there is fucking dough in that ship so he works for a company that does that especially today because houses people buy them oh yeah and that's all they're doing is just having a new cab every 10 years as you need new cabinets first it's this and it's that then oh these aren't white cabinets what the fuck there's

a garbage that is ridiculous and any you walk into anybody's house and you can see those prefab oak ones. Yeah. And you know, these were in here. The apartment complex ones. Yeah. Garbage. Particle board on the front. Yeah, those suck.

Yeah, those suck. Yuck. That's most of every fucking cabinet I've ever had. Yeah. Let's redo these cabinets. Oh, wait. No, they're particle board. There's no redoing these.

You can't redo these. These just come out. If you sand them and they just disintegrate. That not not how this works these come out and go back in new ones yeah that's what happened so his mom said at this point right now uh in in uh february of 90 he was planning on building her an entertainment center for her tv and vcr that tells you what's going on here yeah um so dean is working like we said for leonard mcneely senior that's the guy who owns the company and um he also at this point talks to a police detective a uh nagadoshis police detective clifford lightfoot he runs into him somewhere and he's

talking to him about it i think he asked him for advice like legal advice as far as like how do i get my kids back seems to be the conversation i want my kids yeah my wife's in wisconsin what do i do basically when i'm allowed to leave right yeah but these are things that you ask a lawyer not a police detective so what the fuck he cares so he's uh she took off with him how fast was she going yeah was it over is her insurance up to date how are her tags because i can i can do something about all the lights work well i don't know sorry she's above the law so uh he told this police officer lightfoot this detective that he was mad because his wife had run off to wisconsin he wanted his kids back so lightfoot because he said i'm gonna go get my kids back.

Is that should I do that? And the cop said, no, you shouldn't do that. God, no, that's terrible. She's got them right now. So that would be sort of kidnapping, you know, especially if you go across state lines with them and stuff. It gets worse and worse. Do you have custody legally? That's what I mean.

That's fucking terrible. What he did say is my suggestion is I'd say get a lawyer and have them find out what your rights are and then file something. So you have visitation of your kids. That would be my suggestion. You know, as someone who gives half a shit about the law, you can't just barge in with a shotgun and say, well, my kids back. That's not going to be that's not going to go over. Well, they're putting holes through the Reynolds. You know, in legal circles, it's bad. So May of 1990 comes around all the way up to may this is still going on she's been writing him

letters she's been calling him he's been talking to his boss he's been asking for random police detectives for advice this is in dean's head so may of 1990 janice writes and calls her again, tells her, you need to come and get me and the children. We want out of here. Okay. So Dean tells his co-worker here. This is a co-worker. This is Leonard McNeely Jr. This is the owner's son as a co-worker here.

tells this guy dean does that janice told him that robert threatened to kill him and janice and was going to come to texas and kill dean and was verbally abusing the children that's what he said jesus janice told me he said he's going to come here and kill me and he's abusing my children and i don't know what the fuck to do this is ridiculous uh particularly abusing dean's son who they uh dean who they call little dean right who is not janice you know that that's dean's only actual yeah dean's only actual kid in this trio of children probably and probably the one that is going to get the ire if a man doesn't like you and sees your face every day in this child true but we don't even know if this is true this is what janice is telling him and janice has a tendency to be a bit manipulative when it comes to shit like this and try to get what she wants by playing on a guy like Dean's emotions, especially because she met him when he was young.

And she's been able to do that for a long time. So Dean Allen tells McNeely, the owner's son there, that basically it's either me or Robert Pogue at this point. Right. Like, clearly, he's going to kill me or I got to kill him. He's coming here. Again, no, I should call the cops maybe. It's him or me. That's it.

Like, this isn't Deadwood. Like, you know what I'm saying? What does McNeely say? Swearingen isn't coming for you with his knife. This is ridiculous. So he's, Jesus Christ. So basically he says, listen, I got a plan. He tells McNeely.

He says, Janice, help me make this plan. He said, this is what we're going to do. She sent me a key to their apartment up in Wisconsin. She mailed it to me. Basically, what she's done is she's placed a plastic pad on the mattress as well. So nothing will get on it. a plastic pad on the mattress as well okay so nothing will get on it and she sent me a schedule of all of robert's habits and work schedules and she says that if i do it she'll help cut up the body oh my okay this is what he's telling a co-worker right like at lunch literally they're

like have a lunchbox open he's got like a tuna sandwich and he's like so anyway yeah the wife says uh you know if i go up there plastic down she's helped set it up and if i just murder him then you know she'll help me cut up the body and stuff so i don't know we're gonna eat those cheetos like what the fuck are you doing so road trip road trip um so yeah dean said that uh you know the plan is this is what i'm gonna do i'll go up there all i have to do is if i cut the body into six to eight inch pieces you know i can cut the torso into two pieces and mutilate robert's head so they'll never know who it is beyond recognition i'll just fuck up his face and take all his teeth out so they'll never know and then scott free he said that at that point he'll bury the pieces of the body all

in different places and uh he kept telling mcneely mcneely would later say quote he kept repeating the words no body no crime no body no crime so yeah crisscross so this guy taking a bite of his sandwich is like nobody dad i think we need a new guy on cabinets because this dude's fucking crazy the cabinets are unhinged and so's he yeah it's everything here this is wild shit so mcneely the co-worker said i didn't believe dean would ever do anything like that at the time i thought he was letting off a little steam and talking big some guy took his wife and kids and he's gonna talk shit i'll cut his body up into pieces there's a difference between talking big and nobody no crime i've heard

people say they're i'm gonna kill that son of a bitch but they don't say like we put a plastic pad down i have his work schedule the key to the house what i'll do is i'll cut his torso into two pieces the rest of things into six to eight inch chunks separate them out scatter them all over the county in different spots and And then nobody, no crime. That's way different than I want to kill that son of a bitch. I fucking hate him. Every step. Nobody, no crime.

I'm going to cut him up. Nobody, nobody, no crime. About six, eight inch pieces. Nobody, no crime. And he's like mutilate his face. Nobody, no crime. It's all good. That's the worst Bob Marley song ever. Nobody, no crime.

Hey, hey. Bob Marley song ever. Nobody, no crime. Hey, hey. Hey, you lovers. You won't fuck my wife. Nobody, no crime. Hey, hey.

Oh, oh. I made the cabinets, y'all, in Texas. Nobody, no crime. Nobody, no crime. I'm a carpenter and I don't chase. I'm a carpenter. I'll cut him up. Or I'll use my saw. Nobody, no crime.

I do it for the children. Mr. McNeely, don't shed no tears. Don't call no cops. Because no body, no crime cops this is great this is fun okay that's a bad song that's a bad bad song for this i love singing bob marley adjacent songs while i have fucking tons of edible pumping through me that's wonderful so nobody no crime uh so anyway he said well how are you gonna cut him up yeah and dean said you know just like to see how seriously as dean goes well use a fucking machete yeah i'll use a machete to dismember him clearly and uh mcneely said man you can't cut a dude up with a machete there'll be too much blood man

there'll be blood everywhere so he was just like fucking around with him thinking it's like man what are you talking you can't do that like poking holes in it like maybe he'd go yeah you're right but instead he's like okay better weapon better you're right you're right you got thank you yeah you got you got points here so um yeah he said he has the key uh this is what mcneely said quote uh he said i talked to janice and she said she put a rubber pad on the mattress and then he said, you know what's really neat? Yeah. The carpet is red so the blood won't even show. What?

Isn't that neat? No. That's neato peachy keen right there. This guy doesn't know that blood changes colors when it dries. Neat. It's not like it would, yeah, it would still show up. Right. It's blood. Right.

There's going to be like matter in it too. Is it blood red carpeting? It's perfectly blood red. It's matched to dried blood. There's going to be like matter in it, too. Is it blood red carpeting? It's perfectly blood red. It's matched to dried blood. It's wild. It's amazing. What the fuck? So Dean Allen's coworkers at that point started calling him Rambo as a joke.

What's up, Rambo? How's it going there? They started calling him Rambo after the shotgun incident. Yeah. Because it was like, yeah, what's up there, Rambo? And he got a shotgun wrestled and shot through a trailer in the first blood yeah and now they're now they're fucking he's saying all this stuff so they're just like dude this is yeah this is silly he's telling everybody i'm gonna kill that son of a bitch he tells leonard mcneely senior uh seniors the one

who nicknamed him rambo after the shotgun incident boss and owner yeah no wonder he's fucking nuts nobody's calming him down including the guy in they're making fun of him it's a construction site no matter what happens they're gonna make fun of you in a construction site that's everybody should be forced to work for like three months at a blue collar job because they'd have a much better sense of humor about themselves they wouldn't care if people break their balls right that's why like when we break balls we laugh because that's what you do right we've done that shit before in a construction site if you're that guy what's up rambo he could have

killed 20 people they'd be like what's up ted bundy like they would they just make fun of him however they could they don't care this in the homicide book they talk about some guy killed a duty work with on the construction site like and stole a bunch of shit from him and everybody on the site he this guy would carry a gun around on the site talk about and stole a bunch of shit from him and everybody on the site he this guy would carry a gun around on the site talk about how many people he killed and they everyone just made fun of him for it he's literally waving guns around all the time they're like yeah look at fucking clint eastwood over here and they all laugh at him loose cannon and that's why he killed the guy unbelievable because he made fun of him once too many times so he shot him on the way home

so yeah this is a thing that happens in in this environment it will it will humble you right up and make you realize how really how fucking hard this world is yeah and everybody sucks world doesn't give a fuck about your feelings no you're not special i'm not special nobody's special that's what it tells you we're we're all in this shit together when you work a shit job so we're all all going to make fun of each other. No one is any better. We're all worthless together. Hang in there. It gets worse.

That's it. No shit. So the McNeely, though, he says, quote, he was always kind of gung ho. Rambo wasn't degrading in any way. He said, I wasn't trying to degrade him. We were just breaking balls, which is pretty degrading. He described him, though, Dean, as a hard worker who just talked about how much he missed his wife and children after they moved to wisconsin so much and so that's all he talked about then he got into how to get them back

now a friend of him a friend of his who's also a distant cousin of course surprised she's not married to somebody in this mess susan whitt. She said that Dean was depressed because his family was gone, and he also told her he was going to kill Robert Pope. He told anyone that would listen. And even the cop, he was like, should I just go there and get him? You know, it's like, shit. And I would be surprised that no cops were called about that, except he fired gunshots at somebody.

And no cops came. No cops. She didn't believe him, the cousin here. She said, because I've never known him to be that way. She said that he was definitely obsessed with his wife, though. She says, anyone that knows Dean knows he's a quiet, unassuming person, not a dominant personality. Janice was outgoing, and he worshipped her.

He would do anything for her. So as you see, you can kind of tell who these people are in this relationship. She's the mouthpiece of the relationship and it's just a mouthpiece yeah and he kind of does what he's told and but i mean that's just because he's younger it's just kind of the way some relationships are like that so it's the role you take on that's what it is um now another woman patricia cooper she met dean at uh his aunt's house here and she ended up having he ends up having an affair with her Dean while all this is going on he's so mad he's gonna kill Robert Pogue and all this shit he also bangs his aunt's friend uh through April of 1990 for like a two-week period all right okay

sure um she broke the relationship off why because all he ever talked about was how he was going to kill robert pogue and get his wife back it wasn't that it was weird that you were banging your friend's nephew that wasn't on not at all it was that all he talked about was killing like after sex he'd be like man that was good i'm gonna go kill that motherfucker in wisconsin and get my wife and kids back you know that was amazing that blow job you know what i'll bet pogue just got a blow job too i bet it was better janice is something else i'll tell you what so uh she said quote he told me he was going to chop this guy up with a machete and the only way he would take his wife back is if she helped him by sending a key to the apartment he never showed no anger he just talked about killing the guy he was obsessed about

it i told him he was crazy fair enough now back to janice uh through this time um in beginning of may 1990 janice tells the colby elementary school that her daughter was moving back to texas yeah when uh she's her last day of school was may 11th and she was moving back to Texas. She also, and at this point Dean Allen, asked Leonard McNeely Sr. for some time off from work so he could travel to Wisconsin to pick up his family. So Dean, this guy was like, great, that'll shut him the fuck up about it anyway. Terrific. He left Texas on May 25th to head up to Wisconsin in a car.

He's driving. He left Texas on May 25th to head up to Wisconsin in a car. He's driving. Janice Allen gives one day's notice on May 25th to Century Foods owner Lawrence Ackle Larry said she has babysitting problems and can't work there anymore because she has no more child care. Meanwhile, it's the same day he's leaving to come up there. She's moving. No, she said, I got to quit because I don't have child care anymore. Got it. No, she said, I gotta quit because I don't have childcare anymore. Got it. Oh, okay.

So Dean Allen arrives up there, he arrives in the area in a town called Medford on May 28th. Janice registers at the Rudolph Motel. The Rudolph Motel.

Yeah. The motel owner, Alan Mokry, he tells everybody later on that they were kissing, quote, like a couple of lovebirds. Janice and Dean were.

Okay. Okay. And they have the kids with them, too. When they apparently they went to the hotel, they were went to the room with the kids. They left the hotel for about a half hour and brought back a bucket of Kentucky fried chicken. And the owner there confronted them about leaving the kids alone in the room because they're young kids. And he told them if they had been gone any longer he was about to call the police on them because they were leaving their kids behind why are you watching my room so carefully sir

yeah i've paid my nightly fee how many people you think are staying at the rudolph motel on a fucking thursday night they're the only ones there's what are they doing right they didn't i don't see no kids there shit they took kids in is that a bucket of kids what is that oh that's chicken never mind you never know up here uh so they checked out of the hotel at 7 30 p.m they got out of there apparently they were uncomfortable with that deal with this guy's shit yeah so they checked into room 29 at the welcome in motel okay welcome inn obviously motel so they got in and motel in the same thing in Medford where Janice Allen, she used a Tyler, Texas address for the registration and requested no maid service for the room at all. And while they're at the welcome in, she and Dean planned to, they wanted to confront Robert to scare him so he wouldn't come back to Texas toas to try to get her back okay okay we're gonna scare him that's what they said they talked about okay they said wednesday may 30th it's robert's day off that'll be the good day to do it okay so may 30th comes around yeah it's a wednesday yeah so that

means that that was a monday night that they were staying there the guy was just bored probably. So Monday or Monday. I'm sorry. May 30th here. Wednesday. OK. Now what ends up happening is they are Robert is at the house with Janice. OK. The kids are being watched by somebody else. OK.

Now Dean bursts in the door. OK. Confronts Robert. OK. OK. Now what ends up happening is there's a struggle here now there's conflicting cases but what robert says is probably true based on the medical examiners uh thing here basically there's a wrestling match between them robert has a knife

okay that's what's said that's what dean says robert has a knife which he's a butcher and he has a shitload of knives so So that kind of makes sense. But that means he's sitting in his favorite chair with a knife nearby. Apparently he popped up out of the chair. Okay. Okay. He's got a knife. There's a struggle for the knife.

And apparently at one point, Robert is has Dean pinned up against the wall and he's choking him. So Janice, this isn't going the way Dean plan, not the way Dean plan. So Janice claims that she came up and stabbed Robert in the back with a machete. Okay. Okay. That's what she says. That's her thing. But the medical examiner and Robert have different interpretation of it.

He says eventually here he got the gun away from or he got the knife away from robert and stabbed him in the stomach that's what ended up happening here now he says later on i didn't want to shoot robert i didn't even want to hurt him um he says uh later on it'll come out that he had a gun that's his original story that we'll talk about but later on he had a gun and he'll say that he wasn't even armed robert he came in with a gun he said that he had a shotgun and uh we'll find out a shotgun with a machete duct taped to the end of it like rambo duct taped to the end of it like like except i think there was an actual mount yeah i think for his knife i don't think i think it was a bayonet mount i don't think he just duct taped a machete this trailer park bayonet is crazy this is trailer park rambo happening right now this is panhandle rambo swiss army knife duct taped to your mossberg ain't exactly rambo absolute

panhandle rambo we've had panhandle samurai this is panhandle rambo this is pretty incredible so uh yeah he says that uh this is what uh dean says that it didn't take but a flash until robert had me on my back on the floor and he was choking me he said he was choking him on the floor he said but all at once robert let go like what the fuck dude are we gonna keep doing this right so uh he says dean says i was trying to catch my breath and i heard a high-pitched squeal and then I heard a clanking sound. My immediate reaction was I didn't know what to do.

I picked up the gun that he had to shoot at Robert because he didn't know what was going on and then Robert just fell over. He said when he fell over, he just made this high-pitched sound four or five times. Okay. And then he was making a gasping noise. Yeah. And he says that at that point he just died he didn't move he just laid there um yes uh he said that uh uh at that point dean said he went

and found janice who was hiding in a closet at the time and told her that robert was dead and they discussed calling the police he said they said should we call the cops and just be like you know make up a story try to claim some kind of self-defense or some shit and they said no we won't because then they would have taken both of us in at least for something and what are the kids gonna do it's easier just to dispose of him oh boy much easier so uh basically he said that he robert tried to pull the knife out basically what ended up happening while they were wrestling the the knife got in Robert's abdomen. Good, deep and good, and sliced some arteries and made him bleed really bad. Now, he said that he didn't know what was going on until he looked up and saw the... I think he stabbed him and knew exactly what was going on.

But he said Robert was just trying to grab the knife and pull it out of himself like he was in shock, I guess. And he said that Robert cut his hands on the knife trying to get it out and was like fucking struggling with the thing god damn it uh he said robert let out a high-pitched noise or scream which sounded like a wounded rabbit oh by the way you know who he told that to his boss because he went back to fucking work in texas we'll talk about it eventually and told everybody what he did holy shit that's not all uh he told him that uh he also said that the day uh the day he dies he'll always believe robert was still alive when they cut him up oh jesus christ let's talk about it what he said that once he fell over what should we do should we go ahead with the plan? Yeah. And they said, fuck it. Let's go ahead with the plan.

He used Pogue's Robert's own butcher knives to dismember him. Horrible. Cut his head off and held it up by the hair as like, look what I did. Okay. Then he. Oh, my goodness. He cut him open. Yeah.

Ripped his heart out of his chest with his bare hand and held it up to see what it was all about like i don't know if he saw indiana jones one too many times or temple of doom was a stuck in his mind he seems like a temple of doom guy yeah he does he held it in his hands and remarked that he didn't know human heart was that small thought it was bigger okay um then we'll get to that's not the worst part. Then he said the only time he was afraid was when he was sawing through the bones. And he was worried that it was so loud someone might hear him and complain because it was late at night. Like he was sawing wood. He said after finishing, though, he said when they were done, he was telling everybody that the butcher knives after that were so dull you couldn't even cut butter with them because you know he used them to hack up a person

wow um yeah um what else did she what else did he do well he uh sliced open his nutsack and ripped his balls out and had them for a while and then he turned him over and started slashing at his ass too and was considering how to get his how to get his balls in his ass basically how do i do this and was stabbing him and cutting him and all this shit and decided not to do that just decided to cut him up completely and keep the balls separate and we'll talk about that yeah he's so mad at this this is crazy yeah okay uh so then he got all the parts uh she loaded the garbage bags full of parts and bloody sheets and towels into the car that was her job i guess and then they went out into the woods and we'll talk about exactly what happened but they went and buried these different cars four different garbage bags yeah and we'll talk about then she rented a steam

cleaner to clean the carpet but that was later on we'll talk about that and uh cut up the bloody mattress is that rubber pad didn't cut it when you're dismembering an entire human and uh and threw that away okay now janice tells people because people are like hey where's robert yeah you know because they didn't tell people where they were she tells several different stories she tells robert's sister that robert left the apartment and she doesn't know where he went they were fighting a lot and she just he just took off okay um also told her then ended up telling the sister later on that he came home that night and told her to go back to sleep when she woke up uh he was gone and so were his stereo and his clothes and his vcr so he

moved out he's gone um she said that was the last she had seen of robert and that was that so um yeah so the cousin here came over and helped janice pack up the apartment because if robert left she's gonna leave too she's like i guess i'll go back to texas with my kids and my family's down there that's a half address james this is behind the half address this is crazy it was an upstairs oh it's an upstairs so it's yeah top floor so uh so this cousin comes in the house where they murdered right him there is still blood on the walls everywhere they've the fucking person was murdered there they didn't clean this these people are idiots and opened him right um but she wouldn't let she helped let her let this cousin help her pack but janice wouldn't let her help clean the living room janice said the children had spilled red

kool-aid all over the living room they got a whole of a thing and they were fighting over it in a super super soaker it's everywhere everywhere when it went up in the air you know and also the cousin said well where's your mattress your mattress is gone yeah you don't have a mattress and she said said, well, one of the pitbulls tore up the mattress while we were gone one day. So I had to get rid of it because it was just all destroyed. That's how that went. Now, Robert's mom here, obviously, she's looking for a kid. Three days after the murder, Janice visits Robert's mom and tells her that, look, I'm sorry I have to tell you this, but I have to be honest with you. You're his mother.

You have a right to know this. Robert uses a lot of drugs. He's a bad drug addict. He never wanted to tell you, but he ran off with a couple of people. Some chick and some guy, his drug friends, they ran off. I don't know where. He said he was leaving and he just wanted to go do drugs and he'll never be back. So I don't know. Hopefully he'll clean up. I don't know what to tell you. leaving and he just wanted to go do drugs and he'll never be back so i don't know hopefully he'll clean up i don't know what to tell you where's his dogs

dogs are still there dogs are there so uh dogs end up at the mom's house shit pit bulls if they didn't do anything about i think they were with the kids yeah i think they were being watched with the kids i certainly i bet if i raised my voice to you frankie would kick the shit out of me yeah she'd probably mull you i would assume yeah and she loves you right so uh she uh anyway they didn't the the mother didn't believe her she said i don't believe that i've been talking to robert all the time he's not on drugs like i would be able to tell any change my son hasn't changed at all he's fine a guy that does that you there's certainly some red flags before that happens yeah that's where the guy has it all together shows up to his job every day and he's like you know what fucking can't take it huge heroin coke is so much better so much better

so the mother said she doesn't believe her she said i don't believe you and i'm gonna call the police okay so janice said please don't because i'm gonna go to texas and i just you know i just want my life to be start over and this was has been really hard so the mother said fine and the mother says later quote i hugged her and i told and i wished her the best of luck and she said she had to go because her brother was there to pick her up and sure mother you know robert's mother lets him go janice and dean move back to texas together like we said he'll end up bragging the co-workers right while they drive back to texas um they make a plan dean said basically i'll take the blame and you stay with the kids in case we get caught for this like i'll say i did it and you got the kids and that's how we work this.

So they get back in there. They move into a trailer in rural Nogadocious there near the Shawnee River. June 4th, 1990. It's been five days. Robert's mother, Shirley, reports to the Colby police that her son is missing. Hasn't been seen since he left work on May 29th. And detectives were notified that he was missing and interviewed a bunch of people including his family and

everybody like that june 7th sheriff's detectives here in uh i believe in texas oh no they flew down to texas the the wisconsin ones and they worked with the nagadoshas police to learn where. You guys are so Nagadoshas around here. This place is Nagadoshas, bro. Yeah. Woo. This is the most Nagadoshas cops I've ever met. Fucking A, man. Nagadoshas.

It's like Nacho-doshas, man. I love it. So they learn from the police down there where the Allens are living. They find them. We'll talk about it. They keep doing an investigation. Dean Allen's aunt, Margie, told the cops that Dean had bought a shotgun a few weeks before he went to Wisconsin.

He asked to borrow an old machete she had as well before he went up there. Dean was living with his aunt at the time when he left about a week before he went to wisconsin he also borrowed a hacksaw to cut off a gun barrel and a grinder to sharpen the machete wow he shortened the fucking barrel and sharpened the machete oh boy a week before like this is like yeah this is like rambo shit like he's getting his shit prepared and he's like you know soldering things together this is like Rambo shit. Like he's getting a ship prepared and he's like, you know, soldering things together. This is crazy. Fucking getting his duct tape out. So Janice Allen's mother Margie told the police that Dean Allen arrived at the apartment at

430 a.m. And this is what she was told through what Janice told her brother. Okay, so she goes to the police and said dean showed up with a shotgun uh pogue pulled a knife on him and then that's what ended up happening so there's enough at this point for the police to get a search warrant for the apartment in uh in wisconsin to at least see if they can get any evidence in there what they find is a four foot by five foot blood stain under the uh under the carpet yeah she had steamed the carpet but it goes through under that yeah and it's clean the surface all you want same color doesn't matter

right there's that's blood that's a different they put the that shit on there and they do the test and they go hey look at that yeah wow the lucite whatever the fuck it's called look at that luminol also uh let's say the light thing is a little bit all yeah well they used to do uh for the test they do the swab like if there's just like a surface and you're seeing if it's what it is you swab it and then if it's blood it's any kind of different color it turns a different color if it stays gray if it's not so uh they find that blood also spattered all over the fucking bathroom walls uh blood and flesh were found on the walls still in corners flesh was found in the bathtub drain oh god human flesh

and obviously blood and hair and everything else here june 9th 1990 they're uh arrested at about noon in texas they're driving down a rural road and the wife the kids everybody's in the car janice and dean and uh jan and dean they're gonna fucking put out a beach single uh he uh he wouldn't speak to investigators they're driving an 81 camaro blue 81 camaro so and uh they find uh in there they find the stock and part of a barrel of a shotgun. Oh, and a bow saw. You know the bow saw? A bow saw with flesh, blood, and hair stuck in the blade. Oh, my God.

He cut him up with yard fucking... Didn't even... Yeah, like he saw a fucking piece of branch off of a tree. That's what that is. If you don't know, like a bow. Imagine a bow that you pull back. The saws that look like that with the blade where the fucking thing would be would be the string and it's super sharp yeah they've got super jagged teeth on that he didn't even hose it off he just kept in the trunk and it's 10 days it's been

he's been driving around with it terrible uh also found in the car was a work glove inside the work glove guess what's in there nuts nope what is it a ponytail with a piece of scalp still attached to it he scalped him he took he cut his ponytail off of his fucking head and kept it as a souvenir with the head still attached with the head still attached by the way yeah not only did he have that and hide it he showed it to the people at work oh He went to work and said, I did it. Look at the ponytail with the scalp on it. I killed the guy. And they were like, okay. Nobody called the cops.

Nobody called the cops. No one said, we should probably tell somebody that he murdered a man and he scalped him and he's got his fucking hair and he did God knows what. We should probably. And they were like, nah, he's a good worker. He shows up on time. It's not real.

I don't know what it was, but yeah, that's what's what it was later that night janice consented to a search of their trailer where they found a loaded sawed-off shotgun and a sharpened machete on the shelf of the bedroom closet also taking as evidence for robert's stereo two large speakers and 16 cds believed to belong to robert as well he stole his fucking music stole his tune he's got good tunes man hey you know what boy you know someone's got good tunes you take them buddy you know same buddy that's just what you do that is low he got tunes he took his ponytail that's pretty low i said damn the music yeah she won't yeah dio i had to take it man you know what i'm saying i want to get and get me some of that the first two metallic out what else did he get music and what else stereo the whole stereo stereo

two large speakers and 16 cds so we'll take the body parts and grab them cds too load them on up wow when he's arrested janice smiled at the officers politely yeah she just acted like nothing was wrong they said quote she seemed rather calm that surprised me under the circumstances i expected her to be crying surprised you that should fucking terrify you yeah that's that's a cold-blooded bitch oh that's a sociopath that's a scary person they're both scary people the police department informed janice of her right not to speak with them obviously the, the right to be silent. And yeah, the one police officer got upset, the one from Wisconsin, because they said she's not a suspect yet. You just fucking Mirandized her, you idiot. Yeah, because basically you don't have to Mirandize her till she's a suspect.

But that's a real gray area there together. I would think that he knows that she's a suspect, too. So from the start, she's a suspect. But until they start a suspect but until they start asking suspect questions they don't have to mirandize her they can get background shit without it yeah which is still gray area so anyway uh they met that made the police in wisconsin from wisconsin upset janice said am i under arrest and the police in wisconsin said no no no you're not under arrest you're not under arrest and he said quote in fact i said we're just happy she and the kids were safe he tried to make it like no no you're not in this at all

you're around a fucking crazy man he's crazy there's a saw and a ponytail back there it's got stuffed in a leatherman yeah and uh also the police officer said the nagadosh police treated janice roughly uh by raising their voices and yelling at her and calling her a street girl that's that's just i just pictured the nagada you're a street girl you live in nagadosh what do you care fuck you anybody that lives here is a street yeah have you seen this place so janice here uh what she had been doing since then, she called her friend Pam Ben Senma, a friend of hers, on June 3rd and said Dean had come to Pogue's apartment at 430 a.m., gotten in a fight with him because he wouldn't let Dean take his wife and children back to Texas. Pogue pulled a machete on Dean but dropped it during the struggle, and then Dean picked up the machete and hit Pogue on the back. So Pogue said, why, why?

And fell backwards. And then the knife drove into him more like in a movie. Yeah. You know, then it popped out the front. Jesus Christ. While trying to pull the machete out, Pogue sliced his fingers in his hands. And Shanna says she hid in the closet while Dean cut up Robert's body, which is pretty close to what happened, except that Dean brought the machete to. That's the only difference. I'm still of the mindset that anybody that owns a

machete is up to no good well there's not a lot that's a fucking weird instrument to have unless you live in a in a like a jungle right area where you literally have to cut pads there's really not a lot of reason to have a machete there just isn't that's a weed whacker is way more effective you know they make shit that plugs in that's way better yeah you know like one of those the hedge trimmers yeah they go back and way easier shit out of a machete instead of fucking swinging a knife right yeah this is what do you do it literally doing it with energy like throwing an arm forward no nothing has to be sharp as shit.

Yeah, oh yeah. Somebody that has that is a dangerous human being. Sharpening it constantly. So Janice told Dean's stepfather in November that later on in the year that she was the one who fatally stabbed Robert and all the shit. So there keeps, she's telling everybody either the right story or that she did it right which is not the right story she told another friend of hers that dean and robert were fighting when she tried to break up the fight she ended up stabbing robert and then robert tried to pull the the knife out from the front and then dean allen cut up his body um so yeah then she told somebody that she

that they fought over the gun robert there was a gun there the shotgun robert ended up with a machete in his back janice ran from the room dean cut up the body put it in bags buried it in the area so that's the general general story um yeah she said that uh she was hysterical that this friend said that janice was hysterical when she talked to her and she said something major happened dean made her help uh help him bury the bags or he'd kill her, is what she told her friend. She also said she was scared to death and now she'd be stuck with Dean Allen for the rest of her life and she didn't love him. She just told him to come back there. Right.

You did this, girl. There are letters on file of, I made such a mistake. I love you. Please come get me. We want to be a family with you. Like, there's, I mean, they're there. They exist. I love you. Please come get me. We want to be a family with you. Like there's I mean, they're there. They exist. She definitely told him that, you know, he's being bad to your kids. And, you know, I love you and come get me. Definitely. So finally, yeah, she ends up spilling the whole thing. She says she tells Marathon County Sheriff's detective here. This is Wendell Roddy. He's the one who was investigating, flew down to Texas. He said that she and Pogue had an argument on the 29th when he came home late with hickeys on his neck.

He told her to go to sleep. And when she woke up, that's she gives the story again about the stereo and his clothes and everything was gone. Later that day, she changes her story and said Dean came to the apartment at 1.30 a.m. carrying a sawed off shotgun with a machete attached to it with duct tape. So that's how that came in. This is while she and Robert were just sitting on the couch watching television, which is a wild entrance. Yeah. While she looks at her watch and is awaiting him to show up. Almost 1.30.

Dean told Robert to stay where he was, but Robert jumped up toward Dean and grabbed for the gun. Dean tried to fire, but the safety was on. Oh, crap. This is how inept this whole thing is. He's trying. Oh safety was on. Oh, crap. This is how inept this whole thing is. He's trying, oh, jeez, oh, fuck, goddamn safety,

and he's wrestling it. This is absolute stupidity. So during a fight over the gun, the machete fell off because, you know. Because it's duct taped. It's duct taped. It's not the best thing here.

She next saw Pogue trying to pull the knife out of his chest, and she hid in the closet, and when she came out, Dean had cut Pogue up and placed body parts in bags. she was in the closet for hours then how long it takes to cut somebody up into four bags worth of parts yeah a fucking long time and to remove the ponytail and cut up his nuts cut his nuts and do different things not get him in his ass and like robert

could probably have cut dean up in no time being a butcher but if you're not a butcher yeah i don't know if robert's a hunter, though. So he probably knows how to. Either way, it's going to take so much time. Yeah, you're not doing it. It's a lot. Dean told her to triple bag them before she took them out. Make sure to put two more bags on the outside there.

You know how it goes. She worked at the grocery store. She knew what he meant. She's like, I got it. So, yeah, that's how that ended up going. He was. Yes, he was castrated his ass was slashed and his ponytail was cut off and he was brandished as a trophy uh then what ends up happening is uh she and dean drove to the rib lake area appropriate uh because dean had talked

about dumping the body into a lake where fish would possibly eat the body parts i don't think he knows how marine life works. Not going to eat the bones, stupid. Trout, not really hungry for people. Yeah, it's not full of piranha. It's a lake in mid-Wisconsin. There's a crappie in there, for Christ's sake. I don't think

bluegill really have a taste for human flesh. They've tasted flesh! How big do you think the catfish are the walleye will have the last word tonight they've tasted flesh good lord this is a fucking mess they are dumb they're very dumb well also their job core high school dropouts i want them to stop saying that those two were fighting over the gun they were not they were fighting over you that's the thing the gun just happened to be there also a third character the third the third character happened to be uh very uh metaphorical in this situation you should have seen that gun

as yourself and been like what am i doing i'm as dangerous as that i'm gonna get both of these fucking men killed this is true the whole the perfect metaphor for this whole relationship is a sawed off shotgun, a sloppily sawed off shotgun with a machete quickly fucking duct tape to it. That's the perfect metaphor for this entire relationship of everything that's happening right now. It is a very dangerous weapon that's going to kill everybody. So they drove to the lake, but they couldn't find a place where they could dump it there was no suitable place so she threw robert's wallet in a garbage can at a fast food restaurant yeah just in the can there and uh and cut up his id as well robert's like driver's license and uh she said she didn't help the she tells the cop she didn't help dean bury the bags. She stayed in the car to blow the horn in case anybody came along.

She was playing fucking lookout. She saw Dean take a big bag into the woods with a shovel that she purchased at Kmart, and he was gone for about 25 minutes. When he returned, she said she was scared and asked him to drive her back to the motel. After returning to the motel, he left again, was gone for about two and a half hours, got back and said he took care of everything perfect crime perfect crime perfect crime nobody no crime he buried him in the cranberry box wow so um yeah um she says later on the police she that she saw

pogue's ponytail in dean's car trunk she said she knew it was his because she would braid his hair after he took showers and she had made the braid that's how she knew it was his hair and so uh yeah she'd put a rubber band on each end and all that shit so now dean's boss is like oh yeah the motherfucker told us everything yeah they the cops talked to him they go he pulled out a goddamn ponytail out of a work glove right started waving that shit around the job site, and he also had Robert's belt buckle with him. He kept that as a trophy, too, and showed it to people to prove that he did it. And in Texas, they're like, all right, that's fine. All right. All right.

There he is. There he is. And also, another co-worker, legendary NFL wide receiver Jerry Rice. His name is Jerry Rice. He's like, nope, not that one unbelievable this is a 91 to like the peak of jerry rice's career uh he's in like this fucking guy's like this he's ruining my life ruining it man this would be a mistaken identity if jerry rice was a criminal a white guy in texas yeah it was an electrician right showing his id to get beer and they're like

sure bud what's your real id all right then okay sure buddy so where where's joe montana is he coming too he coming with you so ronnie a lot gonna be here tell me you know marcus allen brent jones coming bringing up the rear what are we doing here tom rathman gonna come wandering in i could do this all night so where's seaford yeah george seaford gonna come dana stubblefield gonna come a wandering in here i'm clairvoyant where's frank gore where he at let's do that goddamn colin kaepernick kneeling all over the place i don't like your team fuck your niners fucking nine so he tells the cops oh yeah he showed me the pony took the ponytail pulled it out of a work glove from his

car trunk he just kept it in there in case anyone wanted to see it he said it was cut from the head uh he said that he didn't notice any change in in uh alan's personality he said quote i never really noticed anything odd just that he said he'd done what he just that he said he'd done what he had had to do and he got his wife and kids and family back that was it no change in his demeanor not even smiling just back to normal yeah so after his arraignment on june 11th here he's charged obviously with first degree intentional murder up in wisconsin they're going to extradite him there all sorts of motions um he talked there's they want to throw out he wants

his confession thrown out of course he does because they asked him well why'd you cut up the body and he said i had to cut up the body it was daylight how the hell else was i supposed to get him out of there can't just carry a guy out in the middle of daylight. It was fucking daylight. Had to cut him up to get him out of the goddamn place. Duh, morons. So he wanted that thrown out and that sort of shit. So Dean's mom, she comes out in the paper and says, he's not a killer. She said, quote, Dean's never been in trouble. Dean is not a cold person.

He has a lot of love in his heart and he loved Robert. They've been friends since they were children. Even more questions. That's what I mean. She said that shortly after he was arrested, saying that Janice told him to come prepared because Pogue was going to kill him. That's why he did it. That's what he told his mom, obviously. And he was going to kill their children, too.

So, I mean, Mom, I had to go. He was going to kill my children, too. So, I mean, Mom, I had to go. He was going to kill my children or call the cops. So Dean was so scared, she said, that he slept with the light on and only dozed most of the time on the sofa. She said, quote, he wanted so much to have a home with his children and their mother that he was willing to take the risk of more than likely losing his own family, losing his own life and trying to have a family. She said he wasn't raised with his father and he talks about that often before he left we talked about the risk of going to another state when janice told him to come get her and the kids robert family robert's family was from there and we thought it was out of his territory what year is this yeah this is out of his territory

he's going to legally pick up what if he's you're going to legally pick up your wife that you're married to and your children that belong to you. You don't have to worry about whether it's his territory, his family going to be. Who cares? This isn't the 1860s. That fucking Hatfields aren't going to gather. What are we talking about? This is so stupid.

So she said, oh, this is great. He was so scared he was going to die that he gave me a song to play at his funeral. Oh, what is it? Dean requested the song Life Goes On by his favorite singer, John Cougar Mellencamp. Oh, yeah, life goes on. Long after the thrill of killing is gone. She doesn't even know that's called Jack and Diane. Oh, yeah, life goes on.

Long after you killed and cut off her balls. That's right. Don't let her out. Take them balls. Swing a ponytail and then sing this song. Pull this heart out smaller than you thought. What the fuck? That's right.

What the fuck is happening? Don't you wish you were 16 and never met that bitch? Oh, man. What the fuck, man? Yep. Oh, man. What the fuck, man? Yep. So. Unbelievable. Yeah.

Janice told her that she, Jesus Christ, told the mother that she returned to Wisconsin to tell the truth about this slaying. She wanted to do that and all this shit. Now, his mom is taking care of the children, including amanda janice's kid from the previous marriage yeah and the other little you know non dean kid um she told me that if i kept the children she was going to be with dean she was going to try to help him basically you watch the kids i'll go try to get dean out of trouble in the court i'll take the blame for it and that's what she's trying to do she's trying to say i stabbed him because there was a struggle and I didn't know what

to do when it was an accident and blah, blah, blah. She said she was the one who killed Robert because Robert was trying to kill my son. Robert was choking Dean and Dean was turning black and blue. Then the mother says, this is Dean's mom. I think that she and Dean both have problems. You think? Maybe? Well done, mom.

Wow. That's some real assessment there that's sharp they both live in a fantasy world he lives in one more than her she snows him he believes everything she tells him and always has i think she just completely nailed the relationship he's an idiot he lives in a fantasy world where he wants to believe the shit that she says because he's an idiot and she knows she can manipulate him so it's a very you know she does she also blames janice for the slaying though she does say though that her daughter-in-law was a good mother to her grandchildren she doesn't hate her okay she in her own way loves her children and

probably in her own way loves dean but i think that her mind is deranged yeah that's what she said there this is crazy too because a lot of times when a parent kills the other parent it effectively wipes out both parents. You know what I mean? One's in jail and one's gone. These kids had three parents and this just took them all three away. This is crazy. Yeah.

Because they're all going. They're both fucking jerks and they both need to go to jail, obviously. Obviously. It's a mess. And then his mom said, quote, oh, no, he says this. Dean says, yeah, through my mother, we tried to let the family know how sorry we are that this happened. And we prayed for them all the time. Robert's mother has told my mother she prays for Dean all the time.

That's his sister talking. The Pogue family also believes strongly that if it wasn't for Janice, this wouldn't have happened. You know what they still haven't done yet, though? What's that? Found Robert. They haven't found him. They've got nothing of him they have nothing finally september 15th 1990 dean agrees to assist investigators in finding him um he leads authorities to a site about 12 miles southwest of babcock along highway 173 uh first they don't find anything he had a

difficult time remembering exactly the woods all look the same so it's tough uh on the second day of searching uh though they found the first burial site along a logging road about 200 yards from the highway and some cranberry bogs uh dean told the detectives he dug away from the trees where there was no roots and he had camouflaged the sites with dirt and leaves using a stick to probe ground, they found the first bag of body parts. The police officer said, I dug until I got to a little piece of garbage bag, and Dean became visibly shaken and said, see, I told you I wasn't lying. They believed you, dude.

Don't worry. That's why they were out there. So they brought the crime lab people to recover the parts. Second burial site was 300 feet from the first um there two days later they drove around the area before finding the third site and alan was insistent that he didn't bury any remains in the area but he decided but the cop decided to look in an area that looked suspicious and he did find it he found uh dug down and he thought was was perhaps a small animal uh but it wasn't it was more shit um i could see an identification of where a

backbone would be god there's more people not shit body parts i took a little water on the shovel and threw it on and can tell it could tell it was skin this is only 10 days later yeah and it's in the woods underground so it's going to preserve it a little bit in the cool um so it was pogue's lower torso a garbage bag was found underneath a rotten stump near the site so uh then they found a fourth burial site you know what they never recovered uh his head no they got his head they never recovered his heart his lungs or his balls what he kept his balls dude yeah he did, he did. He kept them. Yeah. Because everything else they found, it was in bags.

It was preserved. I mean, they wouldn't have just. He put them somewhere on purpose. It didn't just rot away. Yeah. He kept his heart. Yeah. He kept his lungs and he kept his balls as along with the ponytail.

For a reason. I don't know if they, he finally said, okay, this is too much evidence to have. Right. You know, hair is one thing, but an actual human heart is probably thrown out in texas like along like some highway in missouri or something when they were driving i bet it was on his way to work who knows that's what i mean he might have shit who knows wow uh so the one of the sites they found with the body parts uh a tattoo of ann was found on an arm which matched pogue's tattoo that's how they knew it was him that'll do it uh once they found the additional grave sites,

they performed tests, and they figured out it was definitely Robert. Wow. Because in court, they'll try to say, maybe that wasn't even Robert. And they're like, no, there's a tattoo. It's his tattoo. It's definitely him.

Investigate, and they got DNA later on. Investigators resumed the search, though. They ended up finding more body parts. So four bags of body parts were found um oh i'm sorry his head was also gone it was not head heart lungs testicles hands yep oh that's what's missing he did it's very specific very specific those are the things that were never ever found symbolic and meaningful to him to destroy them absolutely to destroy them or to keep them yeah either one to stop the identification with the hands. With the hands.

And the hands. But yeah, he just, this is fucking crazy, man. The fucked up part is earlier, two weeks after this, this is in September. This happened in May 30th that they find the parts. So two weeks after the murder, they had found, somebody found a bag containing two blankets, two pillows, a bed sheet, bed sheet towel socks and jeans with blood all over them in the woods and turned it into police and they just didn't know what the fuck it was they were like oh boy now we know we're gonna have a crime attached to that one

of these days that doesn't look good at all and glenn manier who is robert pogue's stepfather found the mattress on the side of the road that Janice discarded on June 8th. He knew it was their mattress because he recognized it as the same one he gave to them. Wow. By the pattern on it. He knew it was their mattress. It was cut up. Chunks of it had been cut away where blood was probably, I would assume. Yeah.

They said that if it wasn't for Dean Allen, they would have never found the spots that they buried things. They said it was very unlikely they would have ever found that. No one, maybe by accident someday. So, Dean, what do you do at this point? Admit a cop a plea. Well, you do a newspaper interview. Oh, get out. Oh, yeah.

He wants to talk. Oh, yeah. He wants to talk. Oh, boy. Wait till you hear him in court. He says people can't understand what I did, but you're not in those circumstances. You're not in control. You're not thinking rationally're not thinking rationally the wrong thing that i did the dismemberment i did it because i was scared that was the wrong thing no yeah he says he's a mild-mannered polite

carpenter he knows few people in wisconsin he doesn't want anybody to think he's a bad guy though he's literally worried about what people in wisconsin think of him as a human being he's like i don't i don't want them to think I'm a bad guy. They do. Don't worry. People in Wisconsin. Yeah. The reporter even was allowed to be in the room alone with him in the jail. The cop said, you comfortable with this?

And they looked at him and thought, he's not. He's not a guy. He's 5'7". I didn't fuck his wife. He's not mad at me. He's 5'7". He's not a big, imposing guy, Dean. So in a jail setting without a shotgun with a machete taped to it you're not real scared of

this guy he's not one of those people um so uh he said quote i'm not a bad person i'm not the terrible person people have made me out to be they want to make me like i'm a snarling drooling mean criminal i did it because i love my wife and my family. It's a tragedy. No one knows the nights I've cried myself to sleep in that jail cell. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. Oh, yeah. Life goes on. John Cougar Mellencamp.

He starts singing just in court. That would be amazing. The singing life goes on. That guy picked Cougar as like a name. So what? So we don't confuse you with the other john mellencamp i've never met a person on earth it's because mellencamp isn't cool johnny cougar when he first came out it sounds like hey you like a cool rock guy johnny cougar and then he's like that sounds cheesy right i'll use mellencamp mellencamp and then

he dropped the cougar because uh it means old lady that loves to fuck yeah he's like oh i can't have that i can't do this anymore he said that the police did not pressure him to reveal the burial sites he said i even took to the police to the body knowing what they would find uh people told me i was a fool but i believe it was the right thing to do i wanted robert's family to be able to bury robert yeah isn't that nice january, Janice, she's still free as a bird, by the way. What? She's not in charge with anything. She moves with her children into a rented apartment at 1231 Kickbush Street in Colby

there, or in Wausau. Wausau? Wausau? How do you say that? Texas? No, Wisconsin. W-A-U-S-A-U. Wausau?

Wausau. She obtained part-time work at a Fiskars. I don't even know what the fuck that is. I don't know what that is. It sounds like they finger cats there, doesn't it? Now, what you're going to do is there's a quota, so you're going to need to finger at least 60, 70 cats per day. Why do we do this again?

Don't ask no questions. I just need them cats fingered, all right? Now, eight hours of cat fingering, I just need you to do that. I don't need all your, what are you a reporter you said you work for the state you're talking about just finger the cat would you figure the damn cats all right so uh she lives on kick bush she needs a good kick in the bush she could fucking use it so finally march 1991 she is finally charged on march 20th with with party to crimes of first degree intentional homicide theft from a corpse

transmitting false information regarding a missing person also charged with forgery for cashing Robert's last paycheck after he was dead really fucking asshole so dirty so dirty that's just doing it dirty it's like idea I have his ponytail if that'll help

so fucking wrong man so dean in court uh he gets a change of venue and it'll be a seven man five woman jury you want this jury if you're the uh prosecution you want it to be mostly men if i'm yeah me yeah this guy cut this dude's balls out you want that to be like how this is fucked up right because every guy's gonna be like damn that's fucking over the top bro also uh under under the guise of getting your wife back and she cheated on you like the sympathy would be like would you go to that extreme and they'll be like i don't think so no so uh pre-trial evidence hearings the judge decides that the search of the car was legal because he was trying to get the bow saw thrown out and all the car the ponytail they were

like fuck no they arrested you for suspicion of out and all the car, the ponytail. They were like, fuck, no. They arrested you for suspicion of murder and search your car. That is straight up. It's a search and seizure. It's beautiful. Also, they determined that two letters sent from Janice Allen to her husband dated two weeks earlier could be connected to the homicide before the murder there. So they put that in there as well. And he decided that the motions at the jury will not be allowed, though,

to view photos of Pogue's body parts after they were dug up. The photos may be entered as evidence if the medical examiners testify in the trial, only to reiterate his testimony. But you can't just be like, look how horrible it is. He's fucking, look at it. It's a goddamn leg. Isn't that crazy? So the photos. in wisconsin would be blown away with that the photo showed that this is pre-dommer man this happened the year before dom right so this is like

whoo uh the photo showed that robert was castrated and his heart and lungs were removed just imagine these photos whoo his uh head hands and testicles were never found like we said and uh they said that the judge said it's inescapable that these photos would arouse the jury's horror and provoked their instinct to prejudice. So he did not allow those unless the medical examiner is also there testifying. Dean Dean ends up testifying a little in his pre trial thing. Just saying that because he was saying that uh basically he's trying to get his confession thrown out so he's got to testify about that janice does not testify in this because dean asks her not to really yeah so stay out of this one june 1991 the trial begins for dean now uh this is a 15-day trial including three days for jury selection, nine days of testimony. And there's 34 witnesses

for both prosecution and defense. And there's 101 pieces of evidence, including a machete, a sawed-off shotgun, a bow saw, two butcher knives owned by Robert Pogue, Pogue's ponytail, and glove the ponytail was kept in.

Three posters found hanging in Janice Allen's jail cell, which read, Jan and Dean together forever. True love can be deadly. My God. So she's making posters about how they're Bonnie and Clyde. She's an idiot.

Post office box keys, letters sent between Janice and Dean Allen while in jail, by the way, they're exchanging letters and also when they were out, showing where, charts showing where Robert was stabbed and dismembered, photos of a cut up mattress where he was dismembered. Photos taken during an autopsy of his remains.

Those were not shown to the jury. So medical investigator. Yeah. Medical investigator in the cranberry tree and a cranberry tree and a John Cougar Mellencamp CD. And a John Cougar Mellencamp CD. And a John Cougar Mellencamp CD. So the medical examiner testifies. They said, quote, could he have been alive when they started to dismember him? And he said, yes, absolutely could have.

By the way, the blood was. And they said, was he? And he said, no way to tell, but definitely could have been. So, yeah, while he's still alive, this is horrible. Couldn't even have the fucking decency to kill the guy first. Janice had been receiving messages back and forth. Like we said, they've been sending letters through their cellmate that was like a porter that gave it to somebody else. And they have a whole thing here.

Janice testifies she testifies though that she stabbed robert this is like you testify in your trial that i did it and i'll testify in your trial that i did like we'll go back and forth and that way no one will know who did it knows what happened meanwhile just how about we convict everybody right how's that instead they take the other route to it how about fuck all of you rather than we don't know so you all go free we don't know so you all go to prison sorry this man's missing testicles do you understand what we're dealing with here this isn't according to our plan yeah this is this is fucked up she said that the whole story i already told about she said she went into a bedroom to check on her three children now the children are in here before they weren't

now in this now all of a sudden the children are here in this testimony and return to the living room to see them on the floor. She said, when I came back, Robert had him by the sliding glass doors and was choking him. I thought Dean was already dead. He was making some gurgling noises. Well, then he wouldn't be dead, stupid, because you can't gurgle when you're dead because that's from breathing.

So anyway, I had a knife, and I guess you'd make a whatever a whatever last gasp i had the knife in my hand i ran over to robert and stabbed him in the back then she went and hid in the closet dean came in a few minutes later and and said i think robert is dead and i asked if it was if he was sure and he said yes so uh then she says that robert wasn't such a great guy you know now now there's a new thing now she says when the cup two couples were living together remember that in the trailer and and robert and all that while dean was stationed at fort hood while uh while dean was off in germany doing maneuvers janice said she was babysitting in their apartment complex somewhere else when robert broke into the apartment she was into

climbed through the window and raped her in front of the kids she's babysitting the whole thing this is this was she said at that point on trial she said that's when she became pregnant and gave birth to robert's son in april 1998 she said she didn't tell anyone of the alleged sexual assault she was raped and got that's what she said even though they were having an affair at that time and lived together yeah she said he broke into another house and raped her just to try to make robert dangerous there's she's never told she tells her friends and her family everything literally murder details yeah never said this at all then you had a baby with him and then moved to another state with him yeah instead told the sisters and shit like oh my god what am i going

to do i'm pregnant with his kid because we've been fucking so this is not true basically i hate to not believe somebody but there's a pretty good pile of evidence that this is self-serving also wouldn't you tell the guy that's coming to kill him that so that would be a lot more motivation for him to hurt the guy you know i mean if that's if this isn't the first time we've heard it she said basically he told me he'd tell ann his wife and his family that i wanted it and they wouldn't believe me okay so she said she didn't have another sexual sexual relationship with him until january of 1990 when she entered a voluntary sexual relationship with him which is super normal yeah um shortly after she moved into the trailer uh dean confronted them with a gun that was the fired in the struggle no one was injured um so that was that

prosecution closing okay uh this is fucking funny he just says that he whips out the ponytail he's like he showed this to co-workers as a trophy oh my god ladies and gentlemen this is nothing more than a trophy he says if dean allen wanted to kill oh this is the this is the uh defense attorney says if dean allen wanted to kill robert Pogue when he walked in there with the shotgun, there wouldn't have been a struggle. Well, not if the fucking safety wasn't on at that point. He called Janice and Dean, quote, scared to death kids who overreacted to violence. No. The defense closing here says that the evidence suggests that this was that alan uh distraught that his wife who he loved

was living with his best friend acted in self-defense he drove all the way there to act in self-defense it's a long drive it's a long drive for self-defense he dean allen did not plan to kill pog his only plan when he left texas was to get his wife and kids um he says that he was obsessed with his wife his lawyer says maybe she wasn't the right wife maybe she wasn't a good wife but he loved her his love for his children and for his wife is a theme that's going to keep coming back throughout this whole thing yeah and it does june 20th 1991 is the verdict jury deliberates for five hours and not a big shocker guilty of intentional homicide here among other things burgl gun shit, all that sort of thing.

Robert Pogue's mother here said justice. I'm sorry. The district attorney said justice was done. It was done on behalf of Robert Pogue's family and friends who knew him not only in Wisconsin, but the state of Texas. Now, Janice ends up having to plea. They give her a plea. she pleads guilty to second degree intentional homicide there um so her sentencing comes up first roberts is delayed yeah or i'm sorry dean's is delayed to like late 92 it's weird it's super long he ends up actually

making a federal case out of it so anyway during the sentencing uh she told the robert's mother made a plea to sentence janice to the maximum you know maximum sentence please sentence her she said she begged me not to go to the police saying robert had a drug problem and left the area then they cut my son all to pieces i never got my son back she is not worth getting out of prison she deserves life i will accept 27 years because that's one of the things they're talking about, but not anything less. I'd like to hate both of them and see both of them dead, but I just can't do it. I have to forgive them or I can't make heaven because the Bible says to love your enemies and pray for those who despitefully use you. She just called them her enemies.

That's a, hey, you know what? You're going to fucking talk the talk? You got to walk the walk, and that's walking the fucking walk. If you're going to be Christian, that's how you do it. That's what it is. If you don't like that part,

then you can't pick the part you like. If you like a more vengeful God, you're probably Jewish. That's what that is. Not you are Jewish, but you maybe should be. Not that that's how Jewish people are, but that Bible, the Old Testament, is a little little bit different it's a little more salty if you want

to get into all the lovey-dovey stuff i said that totally wrong it sounds like i meant jews jewish people are mean and polyamory not what i meant but i meant the book you're following is a little more salty it's a little saltier a little more revenge in it and shit like that you know god was a vengeful god he was an an angry man. That's right. So Janice said, this is her plea. I had no intention for Robert to die. I wish that I could change that.

His family was very good to me. I am very sorry for what they have been through and what they are going through. The judge also has something to say. Yeah. He says, the same judge will sentence both of them. And he's a salty one,

speaking of salty. He says, I liked the First Testament better. He's a salty one speaking of salty he says i liked the first testament better he's a salty colby he says she doesn't share a common sense of decency and morality it's her lack of acceptance to that view that adds to the danger she is not only deceitful but she is manipulative in the sense that she practices her deceit so convincingly mrs allen's efforts for months to conceal the heinous, almost unspeakable dismemberment of Robert Pogue provided sufficient reason here for him. I don't want to give that away. He said he was struck by her coolness, her utter lack of any emotion whatsoever.

When she testified and the dean's trial, it uh it for me became chilling the judge said he said that uh there had been no indication that robert's dismemberment has excited any kind of horror or outrage or distaste in the defendant and then he looks at janice and says you ma'am may certainly fuck off yeah 25 years in prison which is the maximum sentence for that plus an additional two years for theft and forgery 27 years for her uh but we'll find out she will become eligible for parole in about seven years yeah oh it's yeah it's rough 25 is that's crazy so robert's mom uh said she didn't like the plea bargain she's eligible for parole and one-fourth of the sentence for this uh she said she should have gotten life uh dean was the scapegoat for her but i didn't think i could take another trial it's killing me as it is i can't sleep i'm not

eating i only think about what they did she just said i don't care take whatever deal i can't take it anymore yeah which happens to these people the victim's family sometimes they're like i don't care just get it over with. Long delay for sentencing. There's some complaints in the newspapers about the cost to house Robert while the sentencing is coming. It costs thirty eight to forty dollars a day to cost him to hold him. The meals are a dollar ninety eight each. It's literally what they say. Sell more Colby.

They've paid twenty five thousand forty dollars since he's been in prison for 626 days before he's sentenced. Finally, 1992, Dean is sentenced. The prosecutors asked the judge to set the parole, because it's going to be life no matter what, but it's when you're eligible for parole. So they said please set it at 40 years, while the pre-sentencing report the court had done recommended 30 years and his defense attorney dean's defense attorney said let's just leave it up to the parole board what do you say huh let's not make let's not make let's not make overreaching statements here that's a lot of responsibility it's a lot i want to try to alleviate that let them decide so they say dean do you have anything to say for yourself and you're

supposed to give you know pretty short remorseful thing he speaks he does because sometimes they go no i won't i don't want to say anything which is dumb yeah but he does the opposite he speaks for 45 minutes 45 minutes he does a headline set oh he's and in his statement he rambled he recited the pledge of allegiance he's just having a ball. He's wearing fucking vertical. He's wearing jail stripes on a dress shirt to a sentencing hearing. I'm going to dress like I'm in jail when I'm not in jail. That's him.

That's him. Wow. That's Dean. Yeah, he looks like shit from jail. Oh, boy. Recited the Pledge of Allegiance, cited the U.S. Constitution, and referred to animal behavior. Talking about animals doing shit. You know, the mongoose.

It's a little wild. Yeah. The Pledge of Allegiance to the flag, Second Amendment, right to bear arms. You know how it is. You know, temperance. You know about temperance, right, Judge? Did you know the military can't stay in your place? So, yeah.

did you know the the military can't stay in your place so yeah so uh he also compares himself to criminals who kill someone in cold blood while holding up a convenience store i shouldn't get the same sentence as those people are garbage i'm i'm fucking doing this for my kids here what is he doing so uh yeah they uh they he blamed robert for taking his wife and his three children away from him that's not good not. When you're asking for mercy, um, said that, uh, Janice hell,

basically saying that he held my wife against her will. And, uh, you know, he's, he was saying that he threatened to kill me. So he said, what I wanted was my wife.

He blackmailed my wife for her soul, her body, for her very being. He said, then he said, Robert Pogue tore my family apart and destroyed our lives because he wanted to. Because of selfishness. I contend that my wife and kids were the first victims of this case.

Wow. This is fucking balls. Yeah. Then he goes on to read further from his handwritten statement that he loved Robert Pogue and was sorry for his death and the pain that he caused and all that. But dismembering his corpse was the only way he could get the body out of the apartment so tough ski skitski whatever he said when i saw him take his last breath i knew it was a horrible tragedy i knew the police would never understand what happened they tend to not understand murder dismemberments they don't get that they're not cool like that really a lot of the times obviously this wasn't an enjoyable experience for me either

he said oh he actually said that what a liar well you didn't have to do it and so his mother from the back of the room robert's mother screamed then why'd you do it yeah thank you someone needed to scream that uh so the judge sits back and he says clears his throat and he says quote the intensity of his rationalizations and defenses leads me to believe that he has no insight into his culpability and certainly has no appreciation whatsoever for his wife's role in this matter he says that uh i don't have the words to describe such an abomination frankly mr allen he said calling the car and then he said he called him a atrocious barbarity he said that he and his wife committed which i think about sums it him atrocious barbarity. He said that he and his wife committed, which I think about sums it up, atrocious barbarity.

He said that in deciding the parole date, he considered several factors, including gravity of the crime, the need for public safety and premeditation. And he said, though, the Allens testified that Pogue was killed in self-defense. He said, I don't think so. I disagree. He said, why do you cut out Mr. Pogue's heart, hold it up and contemplate if this in self-defense he said i don't think so i disagree he said why do you cut out mr pogue's heart hold it up and contemplate if this is self-defense why do you take a knife and slash his buttocks if this is self-defense then he says uh we'll find out by the way what he would have gotten he says you sir may fuck off yeah life in prison eligible for parole october 2nd 2026 his 60th birthday 37 years he fucking

banged him good yeah he did uh yeah got him good then afterwards to the press the judge went out and talked to the press on purpose you don't usually see a judge explain why he sentenced somebody to something yeah he wanted to he wanted dean to hear this shit. He said that he considered a sooner parole date. He was confident that he was going to impose the parole eligibility at 13 years and four months. That's what that's what the judge was going to give Dean until Dean opened his mouth until then. He said, but after listening to what Mr. Allen had to had to say, I was convinced that he did present a substantial continuing risk. And the district attorney has argued and somewhat more of a risk than the pre-sentence report had said.

So I gave him 37 years instead. Wow. He gave himself an extra 25 years almost because he wouldn't shut the fuck up because he had to be an asshole. That is fucking wild. He gave him almost a year a minute. That's what it is. And he deserved it. Yeah, right.

Should have gave him a year a minute that's what it is and he deserved it yeah right should have gave him a year a minute asshole so uh he said that the robert pogue's mother said that she's he's satisfied that he won't get out until the time is he's at least 60 years old and uh she said that she still has nightmares and wants the rest of her son's body back she wants his head in his hands she didn't mention his balls but that's understandable she said dean allen knows how much i love my son if he had any remorse he would have told me where my son dean allen knows how much i love my son if he had any remorse he would have told me where my son was he didn't have to kill my son he could have taken his family back to texas he did it because of hate he didn't have to cut him up in little bitty pieces he didn't have to rip my son's heart out he didn't have to rip my son's lungs out

so september 1993 very quickly dean appeals saying that his right to a speedy trial was violated because it took them 10 months to sentence him. So he said, I got I was violated. So 34 years, by the way, it's still until the parole he got. But the appellate court said that Dean Allen offered only speculative allegations of prejudice. There is nothing on the record to support Dean's contention that he suffered anxiety with report to his long sentencing delay. They said basically tough shit, asshole. Go fuck yourself. You shouldn't have cut up your friend here.

So they also tried to say that the mandatory punishment for the conviction was out of whack. Basically saying that she should have got sentenced to less. And they went, no, you're good. You're all right. earned it perfect so where is dean allen now uh let's see here dean allen is in the stanley correctional institution he is incarcerated as we speak his parole eligibility date is 10 to 2025 that's when his parole deal is. There we go. Five years from like last week.

Five years. By the way, there's Janice. Oh, yeah. She looks like a waffle host. Yeah, that's exactly what she looks like. You'd see her and you'd go, you'd think she's going to whip a pen out of her hair and said, what'll it be, hon?

You know, waffles are good today. So she, on the other hand here, along grits with that uh she was released from prison yeah it looks like march 15 2009 like as soon as she was allowed to be she was released from prison she her current address is in mineola texas okay she's somewhere in mineola texas who knows fuck out anybody named janice just nobody in tex Texas named Janice you should go out with because she is out of her fucking mind. And she's like 60 years old at the time, too. So if you're an older guy, she might look harmless right now.

She's not, goddammit. Everybody, that is Colby, Wisconsin. And that's, goddammit, one of the craziest shit cases we've ever had. That's one of the wildest things we've ever had, I think. We say that every week, but it's true. We're topping it. That case is as disgusting as that cheese they are equal yeah they're equal if you like that show tell us about it more more importantly tell the world about it yeah get on apple podcast give us five stars it doesn't matter what you say also i know there's

on the other platforms if you can review review give us five stars just say something i like this show yeah that's fine that helps drive us up the charts helps us on the business end also you need to uh head over to shut up and give me murder.com for everything crime and sports and small town murder related check it out listen to crime and sports also listen to psa hate this movie too because we're having a ball over there it's a lot of fun so if you haven't given it a shot yet give it a shot we make fun of bad romantic comedies and bad movies in general so there's that uh check that out get your tickets though to the virtual live show october 29th it's a thursday night boy i can't wait gonna be a lot of fun we're gonna do the all violent felon edition of the prisoner dating game

if you don't know what that is and you fast forward through the front of the show that is when we present jimmy with four bachelors four bachelorettes all incarcerated for very violent crimes they're all none of them are like oh you had some weed on them these are disgusting these are violent people that have done bad things and i research them to make sure that they're probably guilty too they got like convicted with evidence yeah i don't want to be mocking someone who's like falsely convicted in there that That's not cool. So I do some backstory on them too. And then Jimmy picks somebody without ever seeing them just on their advertisement there for the prisoner dating site that they put out from their bio.

Picking a decent person. And then at the end, he's going to see not only who he picked, but who he didn't pick. And he's going to find out what they did to get end up in prison. And it's a lot of fun. We'll find out. Will Jimmy pick the ped he's going to find out what they did to end up in prison, and it's a lot of fun. We'll find out. Will Jimmy pick the pedophile?

Let's find out, everybody. So far, I'm fucking batting 1,000. You're pretty good at it, yeah. So that is all at shutupandgivememurder.com. Check that out. It might be different when you can't see the people, though. Good point, yeah. That's what I'm saying.

I think you can see it in their eyes. So get that at shutupandgivememurder.com. I can sense attraction to adolescence yeah you see it in there follow us that's on social media as well we are at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook and uh we're at small town murder on instagram so check all of those out email is crime and sports at gmail.com and if you want to be a patreon donor and get lots of stuff for it you are going to get by far your money's worth. Trust me.

First of all, first of all, we put out a lot of material. So if you want to be nice and help the show out and then we're going to help you out with lots of stuff. First of all, you're going to get Jimmy mispronouncing your name because you're a producer. So you'll get your name shouted at the end of the show. Then you're going to get bonus episodes at both shows. We do bonus episodes and you'll have access to crime and sports and small town murder bonus. And the crime and sports stuff really doesn't have much to do with sports. It's more just crime shit.

So basically, if you listen to either show, you'll like all the bonus stuff. You'll get it. So check all of that out. Last small town murder. We did murder houses. Yep. Have they've been sold and how how you buy a murder house and things like that. And in the next one, we have a story of three young ladies who wanted to resurrect jack the ripper in like 1998 so that's a wild story that we're

gonna find get an impotent man at that point it ends up with a man and there's an axe and a forehead and it's not great there's a lot of bad stuff happening and weird shit that'll be our next small town small town murder uh bonus episode next week so So check that out. You can get all of that for only the $5 a month. Gets you everything. And that is patreon.com slash crime and sports. And if you just want to be a fine, fine human being who just wants to have good karma and say that you like us, that's so appreciated as well. Anybody wants to do anything over at PayPal, you use our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. And Jimmy will still mispronounce your name.

So that's just if you're a nice person. That said. And that's also the email, P.S. Yes, that is email. There used to be a man that had a band called Small Town Murder. And he is getting lots of emails from you guys. Yeah, that's funny. Because you think that's the email.

It's not the email. It is not. It is crimeandsports at gmail.com. Absolutely. With that said, Jimmy, I need something. And I know exactly what it is. It's the names of the people who I lovecom. Absolutely. With that said, Jimmy, I need something, and I know exactly what it is. It's the names of the people who I love so goddamn much. Hit us up, Jimmy.

Executive producers this week are Chris Cotting. Hang in there, man. Kirk and Shannon Gammon wanted him to know that. Jordan Bennett. And she says, happy Canadian Thanksgiving. I don't know if you know that. I learned that this week. Dylan Banfield.

Melissa Turner. Ryan Guest. Nilou Rafsanjani. Brandon Slade. and thanksgiving i don't know if you know that uh hey i learned that this week dylan banfield uh banfield melissa turner ryan guest neilu roffs and johnny brandon slade jessica leitke the kaboozle uh margaret gary joy brown matt skinner holly uh hounds hounslow jennifer hugo uh aston austin sorry uh carter and roth daniel hirsch uh dan clark and the memory of brendan lee stump i don't know if you know this but it is uh his uh angelversary that's what his mom calls it i think that's fucking sweet yeah very sweet very cool thank you very much uh cammy j other producers this week uh cammy j alexis finn robert wood thomas smith ashley vo cammy j donated both ways by the way he uh he was going through some health shit and, and he wrote me that he was going into Patreon. I was like, seriously, you guys, take care of you before you take care of us. Definitely.

Thank you very, very much. Especially if you're sick. Honestly. Ashley, Vio. What is this? Oh, no. Tatum. Tatum Wyom.

Dick Minch. Rebecca Rose. Jason Kluga. Fabian Brosens. Molly Apple. Anthony Kendall. Daniel Morgan. Praise D, Brandon, what is this, Benio? Benio. He donated both ways.

Thank you, Brandon. Appreciate it. We'll figure out how to say your name. Anne Bolin, Anthony with no last name. Donna with no last name. Cindy Zhang, Capita, what is this, Capita White. Fuck off, John Daniel. i don't know why all right well take that john apparently he's an asshole he's a dick sir liz vasquez uh alexa monte happy birthday thanks for the liz vasquez thanks for the drakes by the

way also m&ms with brownies inside them thank you you're a darling uh tiffany cronquist predictively poetic chi chi kai uh peyton meadows happy birthday john delong michael lambert bud with no last name jolie cloutier i think steve hoffman alissa linell james martyr erica stein joe way uh samuel devitac valerie peak joanne ahern uh madeline nope yeah madeline madeline brought brianna elizabeth hammer hamp i don't i think it's hamp god damn it samantha mckenna jason scott katarzyna niazolka i'm getting pretty good at that one it's every week so it's gonna give me practice todd roberts i know good name uh megan eng, Dan Ramsey, Ben McDonough, fourth anniversary with Jamie. Happy anniversary. Hayley Nicholas, Deborah Shuttleworth, Christian Bangdoll.

That's gross. Dwayne Hughes, Stacey Arthur, Susanna Rodriguez, Rohan B., Crystal Rhodes, Jason McNutt, Matthew Longrine, I think, Andrew Welmer, Selina Schmitka, Liz Cieslik, John with no last name, Sabrina McGill, Jennifer Edwards, Mandy Knight, Daniel Shadrick, Kayla Worley, Anne-Marie Bryant, Lynn Rockstar-Minogue, Tom with no last name, Trina McElroy, happy birthday to Tavia Hughes, I think. I don't know. I'm a terrible reader. Greg Workman.

Could be anything. Katie Hines. Deborah Waddell. Samantha Hogan. Caitlin Stein. Brooke Kale. Jenna Williams. Mendy Schmidt.

Mark Nazari, I think. Nazari. Could be anything. Brian Wolin. Tyler Gwill. Mary Kip Soosley. Maria. Shelby Callahan.

Damon Thompson. Sally Pigeon, I think, Kylie Farrer, Jennifer Linden, Janice Hill, Virginia Harness, Deanna Post, Trevor Coons, Bliss Mendoza, happy birthday, Alyssa Kane, I don't know, hashtag cucumber. I guess that's what she's getting. All right. Well, hey. She needs all the cucumbers, I guess. kane i don't know hashtag cucumber i guess that's what she's all right well hey she's gonna she needs all the cucumbers i guess katie hennessy landon rock uh and gall and gall melissa wheeler

uh nick b darius and soja corin not gonna fucking zooski there's no way that's not gonna zooski it's a brutal ass name i don't know i like how you bailed on it. Listen, I'll go halfway with you. I got the Seuss keeper. Elisa, Elisa, Elisa Mitchell, Ben Burke, Andy Coates, Joey. Nope. Jet Allison, Ashley Hark, Harky, Hake. That's an A. Damn it. Mark Warner, Taylor Delano, Deloiney, Alison Horrocks,cks Nikki Bishop Lindsay Schrodes Jenna Crode and Andrew Fulks Christian Dixon also gross what a lot of Dixon I know it's it's a lot people Lindsay uh W. Dan

Evans Sarah Lees um Ahmed Moussa Moussa Matt Klopfer Klopfer Klopfer uh Jennings, Socorso, McCoy. Can't be right. Dave Yamagishi, Alyssa McCoy, George Armstrong, Ryan Gandolfo. Jesus. Sarah Reed, Jillian or Gillian, Justin Henry, Leonie Turner. What? Chris Broodwall. Amanda Rivers. Anastasia Dela Cruz.

Kyle Greitz. God damn it. Ryan Harless. You guys are going to break Jimmy today. He's just having a tough time. Sometimes you flow better than others, and sometimes you can't even get the page turned there. You're having a hard time. Jennifer Hall.

Brad Miller. Fernando Rodriguez. Jeff Lee. You can do it jimmy i'm doing my best you're doing it you're doing it don't you fucking gamble 08 claire chad stephen martin jordan bailey heather heather curry brandon clifton carly farrer god damn it jeff peed probably uh at some point. Elizabeth Kolodity. Kolody.

I like Kolodity better. Meredith Briley. Kate Bodian. Sherry Sexton. Gwendolyn with no last name. Sandra Rivera. Justin Hogue. Travis Hoyland.

Eric Leinen. Michael Myers. Enjoy fucking Thanksgiving. Halloween is the holiday you're looking for, I believe. What am I doing? Christine Valdez, Chrissy Gunnels, Joanne Begley, Adrian Jackson, Sarah with no last name, Alicia Parmenter, Alexandra Fox, Michelle Reese, Linda, nope, that's Linda Reyes, Genevieve Zyla, kyla uh vin ready wesley clint of what clinovich clinic clinique hey jamie furch frech uh gordy bunk god damn it what alina ogden terror with no last name karen howard david wallace jay cham elite uh ichiguro ichigo karasukaki you sounded like a redneck ichigara who's your what some slanty something

i don't know they got eyes that are funny and some kind of thing i don't know what you're talking about jockey yeah i don't know dave brown uh aaron klein is it japanese the name i i think so okay it's phonetic then just how it looks is how it sounds kurosaki that's perfect then that's gonna be just what it is. There's no weird pronunciation. I don't know if I wrote a J, though. That's the thing. Well, then I can't. They can't.

The name can't jump out of a screen and write itself down for you. It can be easy to pronounce, but not write down. That's on you. Eric Klein, Georgina Perkins, Herbie, Herdy, Herbie Carlos, Aaron W., Fionn, what is this?

Fondle, Meballs, and Dick B. Hartigan. Oh, well, that's nice. Thank you, guys. Gotcha. Wow, unbelievable. Brock Ryder, Richie Wilson. Richie, thanks, Richie. Thank you.

Kayleen, what is this, Gabrielle Savannah Martin, I think, or it's Gabrielle. I don't know. Amber Thomas, Rebecca Grigo, Anthony Fusen, Fiona Catherine Malone, Tommy Toshay, Brett Roberts, Michelle Crotty. There's no fucking way. There's four Zs in this. Oh, that's not going to work. What? Scissors?

That's not going to work. She's the Scissors R. Haley Irwin, Tamara Nelson, Kathleen Rustad, Curtis Dev, Cynthia Buckley, Damian with no last name, John Galapino, David H., Julie Fiorentini, Wilf Davis, Casey Roberts, Nathan Foster, Vivian Fernandez, April Kleinfeld, Timothy Jackson III, Jamie Phillips, Diane Walker, Michael Nitschke, Sydney Vittori, Jessica McCollum, Catherine Meir, Nicole Danes, God damn it, Kate Gabriel with no last name, Sarah forsyth michaela robbins bruce olivia with no last name morgan mcclintsey jeremy lazarus heather miller jesus nope that's jesus god lopez

bryce richard ricard what that's a k jessica walkowski zachary halverson uh panop pan not by oh gotcha. Like sexual. Okay. Got to make me pronounce that. Charles Gallagher, Rachel Bell, Zach Halverson. I said that. Jenny Patterson, Rakeem, Jesse, what?

Jesse Diaz, Joey Juggaloogs, Benjamin Jacquard, Chrissy ross kelly cory alicia gable aj peak skyla mcgee mimi jean john uh brandon slade jimmy rogers jennifer for what i do faqua james morrow tj seven uh morgan graham zachary morgan katie murdoch. Nope, that's Kaylee Kuklis. There you go. Mark Allen. God damn it. Lavender Lane. Dishing up clicks.

Jessica Jeroz. Erin. Nope. Irene. Erin. Irwin Jones. This is never going to happen. It's hot.

I know. Zyandra Nipwapukwagadis. Nope. That's a rough one. Megan Lamrock. Anyway. Austin Hanrahan. Cynthia Shira Watshaya Indrani.

Kara Anderson. Jai Cook. Christina. Nope. That's Christine. Anne Matthews. Anne Marie Phillips. Whitney McGuffey

kade westbrook andrew hunt dana williams kelly uh miller cindy jordan elizabeth hornberger amber hateley hatley crystal gillespie line solomonson lanae probably l brown uh jw22 kevin mcmurray gilmurray god damn it jeff jennifer nope that's philip philip mom my foul for force michael constable jen with no last name london virginia michaela with no last name rupe patel andy gish rachel mace nicole glass jen bruce jenny jenna lee jenna lee shank ryan roovers claire holup fuck denise gwen andrew corsleman jane greaser andy garland abby johnson douglas joe andy nope that's travis langley uh james pell jake holty holt hesky what keskia keskia davison shannon ledoux uh shane wheeler julie ann tina nope that's tia l fish and aaron diaz

dias robert lazuski uh nirali bailey here's the thing i wish i was an adult and and had education allison skillman derrick mcleod mikey giovanni garcia colleen kovash uh matt kuhl deaklin brooks declan carrie with no last name annalise depeel depeel depeel depeel it's french don't look at me uh clark faust gregor's brazuski what no it's not brazuski wits grace wilson sarah galt jennifer nope that's john cunliffe uh brianna roscover seth james silvashi uh katie craven jennifer wilson joe gardner cr mo amy lasher uh joseph Gardner, C.R. Moe, Amy Lasher, Joseph Reynolds, Jen Demcio, Darren Dacey, Patricia Maddox, Brandon Patterson, and it's also Mila's 16th birthday, so happy birthday. Thank you guys so much. I swear I will never go to school.

Thank you so much, everybody. Can't tell you how much we appreciate. Hope you enjoyed the show this week because we had a ball. That was too much fun. It was a lot, man. Jimmy, where could they get a hold of you if they want to tell you how much we appreciate hope you enjoyed the show this week because we had a ball that was too much fun it was a lot man jimmy where could they get a hold of you if they want to tell you good things at wisman sucks wh is man sucks on twitter and instagram and thank you to there was a police detective who sent me an email about uh his form of interrogation that is just as fucking weird he likes he used to take a weed scale and have people put their hand on it and then he'd tell them

that he can decipher that thing. If the sobriety test worked, then anything will work. So I don't doubt that at all. Where can they tell you weird shit? You can tell me weird shit at Jimmy P is funny or just copy and paste my name.

You know how to do it. You'll find us if you want to find us. We're out there. So that said, thank you guys so much. We really appreciate each and every week. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye.

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