Small Town Murder - #194 - A Real Life Halloween Monster in Sutherland, Nebraska

Episode Date: October 22, 2020

This week, in Sutherland, Nebraska, where right before Halloween, a quiet, rural area is sent into a panic, when a news broadcast breaks in on the regularly scheduled show to tell residents to stay in their homes, lock their doors & load their guns, because there is a maniac on the loose! It turns out to be worse than anyone could've imagined, as the scene of the crime is as horrific as possible. Everyone finds out that monsters can be real! Along the way, we find out that you never know what's in someone's head, that the Sheriff shouldn't hang out with jurors, and that just when you think you've heard human nature hit rock bottom... this guy comes along! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Sutherland, Nebraska, a scene of pure and unspeakable horror is found in a rural home, leading investigators to someone who always seems so harmless. What could possibly have caused this regular guy to commit this

complete and horrible atrocity? Welcome to Small Town Murder. hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another. This is insane what we have today for. I even need to say that. It's every week. Guess what? If you're here, it's crazy. Enjoy.

Well, this week it's real normal. It's run of the mill. Normally it's crazy, but no, it's insane. And this week I would give it an extra insane. On a one to 10, this is like a 308. It's a very high on the crazy meter here. But if you are just joining us and if you're joining us for the first time, welcome. If you're coming back, thank you for joining us again and hanging out with us once again.

First of all, I want to thank everyone this week for your reviews. They count a lot on Apple Podcasts, that purple icon. Why do they count? We have no idea do we do we work there no we work here not my system no idea but for some reason it helps drive us up the chart so please give us five stars it helps out a lot also head over to shut up and give me murder.com for everything small town murder and crime and sports related and everybody what you want to do right now is get those tickets for the virtual live show.

Right. Thursday, October the 29th. We are coming at you guys live, I guess, sort of. And it'll be up for two days afterwards. So you can see it almost live. It'll be live at some point. At some point. But check it out there. The all-violent felon edition of the Prisoner Dating Game.

I show Jimmy four lucky bachelors, four lucky bachelorettes. And he doesn't get to see them but he does get to hear their dating pitch right from their you know the prison dating website and he'll pick a lucky bachelor and a lucky bachelorette and then he'll get to see them you'll get you guys will get to see them everyone out there i'll get to see them before he does and then everyone gets to hear what everybody's done to end up there so we get to see if jimmy's picked the most horrible person of the lot and that's always fun check it out it's thursday october 29th shut up and give me murder.com head there right now also patreon guys we have a lot of really good stuff on patreon the last

episode everybody was three three women decided that they wanted to resurrect jack the ripper yeah this is like in the 1990s, not even in the 1890s. They didn't even know who he was, but the one woman thought that she was Jack the Ripper's mother in a former life, so needed to resurrect him. And that involved murder and hatchets. It's fascinating because nobody knows who the fuck that guy really was. The story is bonkers. How crazy was that story? So that was last week's Patreon.

And this week it'll be just as nuts. We'll have something Halloween themed. It's going to be crazy. All of that available at patreon.com slash crime and sports. Or if you just want to make a one-time donation and have Jimmy mispronounce your name brutally, that can happen as well. You can do all of that. You got PayPal using our email address,

crime and sports atgmail.com. Yes. Quickly, the disclaimer. This is a comedy show. It's a murder show also. So murders happen, obviously. But it's a comedy show as well. We're going to make jokes.

That's what happens. I mean, we make jokes about small towns. We make jokes about a police force that screws up and lets a murderer go free for 20 years. We make fun of murderers. What else are we going to do about it? I not we're not are you a federal judge can you not you know down their appeal no so we can make fun of them from our chairs that's all we can do but what we don't do we go out of our way not to do is we try not to make fun of the victims or the victims families because we're assholes yeah But we're not scumbags. There you have it. That's it.

That's how it works. Very simple. We have fun. We have a good time. If that sounds great to you, awesome. If not, maybe it's not for you. But I wouldn't judge too harshly. I would listen, and I think you'll find it's a little different than you think it is.

A lot of fun around the margins. That said, the rest of you sitting out there, it's time to clear the lungs. It's time to shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. I like it. Let's go on a trip. I can do that.

All right, well, let's get the hell out of here then. Let's get out of Phoenix where we are now and out of Montana where we were last week. I got messages about... Darby. Yeah, somebody from Darby sent me oh wow and you know so i think somebody knew very few people from darby what was her last name was it winters or some shit like that i'm gonna forget it doesn't matter remember now somebody knows her from prison

really yeah that's amazing that's hilarious and small world and she's a lunatic she's in prison yeah currently right yes or was out of prison not the murderer the person who contacted you was out of prison i don't want to say too much about them okay they seen her they seen her i seen her i seen her she wasn't right no she wasn't right in the head they say she's a little bit bitchy and nuts oh yeah well we know the one she's out yeah yeah she's out so well if you heard the story it's i mean she's not a nice person no thank you so torturous woman let's go to nebraska great shall we no one's ever said no one's ever said let's go to nebraska great i don't think those words have followed deal ever deal maybe if there's money involved or coercion of some kind if there's a deal just hey, hey, let's go to Nebraska.

Great. No. No. So we are going to Sutherland, Nebraska. I don't know where this is. Ever heard of that? Exactly. Kiefer.

It's in western central Nebraska. It's the middle of goddamn nowhere. This place is very rural. About three and a half hours to Lincoln, Nebraska. Okay. Over to the east. About three hours and 45 minutes to Denver, over southwest, the other direction. So it's kind of equal distance between those two.

And four hours, or a little over four hours, to Verdigris, which was our last Nebraska episode, where there was pigs involved. It was a disaster. No pigs this week. This is just all evil people here. So this is in Lincoln County county even though lincoln's over there way over there i don't understand that how big is their counties no no the lincoln is not in lincoln county no no it's not even anywhere near it no they're like let's not even close

three three and a half hours away but they're like let's name as many things after lincoln is but if we have a town in the county then it's all consolidated lincoln town lincoln county he's probably got the most shit named after him right because it's him in washington it's a hard argue yeah that's why other people oh this one oh thomas jefferson he wrote the you know yeah but he had slaves oh shit yeah you're right that's true and then people go well what about this guy but then there's this and that lincoln it's like what do you say right i mean people will say nitpick about lincoln but i mean as far as historical figuresick about lincoln but i mean as far as historical figures go yeah he's one of the more bulletproof ones no pun intended

please i mean well as far as reputation that's why i said no point his head on the other hand his head on the other hand no and i give i give i give at least that was modern weaponry this is like from the 1860s this is like a musket pistol it's a it was just one right i think so i think it's just one shot that's what i mean so pretty uh yeah but it was close it was like a you know goddamn went up behind him like a mob hit yeah it's a different thing and he had like uh a hundred years handicap on the other guys too right well yeah right that's my point like maybe he's the more impressive one because he's got more shit named after him and that's what i'm saying he had a they had a hundred

year head start no but lincoln is no lincoln's got just so much name that's what i mean yeah and washington and jackson those guys had way more time yeah yeah yeah but that like i said lincoln is not very controversial except in the south there's not a lot of syllables not a lot named after lincoln in the south if you notice Not a whole lot down there, but we're outside of there. Illinois seems to give a shit. They love it. Yeah, that's different. It's totally different.

So this is area code 308. It's 1.3 square miles. It's a pretty small town. The history of this town, there isn't a lot, really, in the history of it. It's pretty much just like the railroad came through there's a town that's the history 1835 colonel henry dodge visited the uh visited uh this area when as an employee of the united states government him and 117 other men went out for the purpose of and this is from the town's historical thing here this is not my words this is theirs quote for the purpose of, and this is from the town's historical thing here. This is not my words.

This is theirs. Quote, for the purpose of persuading the Arikari Indians, then occupying this region, to leave their wildlife and become civilized. That's a... Go out there and... All the way ass statement. Go out there and ask them to come inside and fucking, you know, put some goddamn pants on, for Christ's sake.

That's basically what they're saying. That's a very insulting way of saying it. We're going to go in. They've been living like this for millennia. But you know what? We're going to go in and tell them they're doing it wrong. I want to let you guys know there's some wild ass shit you're doing. Go talk them into that they're doing it wrong.

You guys are doing everything wrong. Right. That's going to help. Put your balls away and come in here and see a play. Yeah, go on. Let's go. You're going to love it. Oh, you have plays? Shit, I didn't realize that. You your balls away and come in here and see a play. Yeah, go on. Let's go. You're going to love it. Oh, you have plays?

Oh, shit. I didn't realize that. You guys got all those sports and all that shit? That's, oh. Fuck, all right. This is pretty cool. This is nice. Maybe I'll just do what you're doing.

Yeah, this is pretty good. I like it. I like the way you do things. I like your lifestyle. Like Junior when he goes to see Zach Galifianakis in Reno 911. Oh, I like your lifestyle lives in a fucking bus with eight kids this is doable crossbows so it's fascinating it's a very interesting way of putting the the changing their lifestyle when that's basically what you say to a i don't know

28 year old girl that yeah dates a lot now trying to get to get her to change her wild lifestyle. Change her wild lifestyle. Yeah, some guy. She's fine. She'll do fine out there on her own. So he had apparently the authority from the government to give aid to the ones who should accept the offer. The rest of you can fuck off. So basically this was like a missionary thing, except without religion. It was just to, What's the offer?

You try to give them pants, and if they take them, then you give them aid? Either to those ones. You give them food, and if they refuse the pants and they don't get food? Commence the firing. I don't know what's going on here. So he camped with his men, Colonel Dodge, at Cottonwood Springs, and then it was called Fort McPherson, and attempted to hold council with the tribe, but they feared the soldiers and fled to the woods, the local Indians, because they didn't know what the fuck these people wanted.

And there's a hundred something of them and they all have guns and shit. And they have fire rockets on their hips. What's happening here? Well, they knew what guns were by 1835. That's a good point, yeah. But I mean, they were like this. They've got some too. What are they into?

Well, they've heard these guys come and bad things happen. When you see groups of white guys all wearing the same clothes coming, that's a problem, usually, traditionally, for the indigenous people. How do they get a word for those people? Yeah, it's fucking, oh, shit, is the word. Calvary? Yeah, cavalry. So, bad stuff here. Finally held his council on July 5th with the Indians at right kind of right by. It's in Lincoln County right here, 10 miles southwest of the town of North Platte, which is close by.

The object of the meeting was to have them accept a reservation. Listen, we're going to kind of opinion and all that. Sounds good, right? It's your own place. Wow. That's what an offer. So, yeah, and then Sutherland was named after Robert Sutherland, who was an official with the Union Pacific Railroad. So many towns named after nameless railroad executives. And in 1812, that was probably Donald's brother.

Yeah. Because that man is old as shit. Yeah, exactly. Holy fuck. Donald Sutherland, and yeah, he is old. He's still alive, too Holy fuck. Donald Sutherland. He is old. He's still alive, too. He is. Fuck, I didn't even realize that.

One of the oldest people on earth, I think. Probably. Well, yeah. He's over 100. It's him and some Chinese lady. He's over 107, right, I think. He's got to be. He's got to be pushing it.

Fucking guy. He called Kirk Douglas a punk, and then he fucking... Right before he died. He was four years older than him and picked on him as a kid it's like you're a pussy so the village was incorporated in 1905 now right by here is the mormon trail the oregon trail and the pony express routes are all run right parallel to this town okay so that's kind of why it exists is a kind of a stopover while you're you know going to migrating somewhere yeah somewhere else oregon or the mormon trail or whatever or if you're a pony express rider i

guess so i found reviews of this town only a couple and they're pretty different they're very different and you see i think this is one of those where it's you can like uh see the difference between if you grow up here or if you move here because it seems to be that the first one's five stars and this is a lifetime resident here quote i'm a former resident of sutherland i have lived there all my life until i went to college last fall they spelled their t-h-e-i-r so i'm happy they're going for higher education i love the small town atmosphere and how friendly everyone is. Sutherland may not have a lot of places to go eat or places to go when you're bored,

but it's only 20 minutes away from North Platte, so you can go there to eat and find places to entertain you. You know, North Platte, the garden center of the universe. The entertainment hub of Kansas. It's known as the entertainment capital of of central of the central of the corn belt right that's the entertainment capital of the corn belt southern buckle of it you know how north platte i'm sorry so there's that and then there's a three-star one this is someone who just moved there and we're not feeling it quite no the same quote we moved our family here almost three

years ago to help care for my very sick grandfather even though i have family ties to this town from my biological father it is still very hard to be an outsider so i feel like this is one of those um everybody knows each other they've known each other since they were born right this is everybody knows that oh this is so-and-so's grandson so i can talk to him and blah blah blah but it's almost if they don't recognize you no one kind of yeah who's that grandpa never left but this guy left to he never was else i think his father left and then had him somewhere now he's been here to take care of his grandfather and he's like oh this is i'm going to this nice small town and they all give him the side eye right i don't trust him i don't trust him well our story today by the way is maybe the reason why no one there would trust anybody, because maybe they shouldn't.

Based on what we have for you today. It's a fucking disaster. So let's see here. Your populations, it's kind of stayed pretty steady, honestly, through like from 1930 to about 1980. They had the same amount of people pretty much. So it's a 50 year period going through industrial revolution and war and fucking depression and dust bowl and this is from the dust bowl right to you know the 80s right to fucking van halen yeah from the dust bowl to van halen basically they kept the same

which are very disparate it's a wide berth of history too think of the dust bowl you think black and white yeah cloud of dust yeah woman woman in that dress that she made from flour sack, standing outside, bringing her dusty kids in. And then picture David Lee Roth jumping off a speaker wearing spandex, like bright green spandex, kicking his leg up into the air going, Wow! The trucks through the jungles of Vietnam to get there. That's a lot.

Extremely different places. But same population. And then for some reason in the 80s, a couple hundred more people came. I'm not sure what the draw was here. Maybe there was a factory at the time or something. But they've stuck around pretty much. And the population's kind of steadily ticked up a little bit. And right now there is 1,601 people there.

Oh, and nobody leaves nobody's leaving yeah it's up 55 since 1990 okay which i mean in a small town it's not hard it's only a couple hundred people but still that's a you know half the town over again yeah it's a lot uh female little it's kind of average a little few more females and males median age is a little higher kind of these rural towns you're kind of going to get that. It's almost 44. Normally, it's about 37 and a half. There's basically nobody here aged 18 to 30.

Is that right? It's like a third of the normal 18 to 30-year-old population as normal. That's interesting. It's like if you need to get laid and do shit, they get the fuck out of this town. There's no way. Then they come back here. Once they have a couple of kids, they're like, well, it's out of this town there's no and then they come back here like once they have a couple of kids they're like well it's cheap and quiet good and depressed yeah i'm gonna go back there and just sink right into a nice warm depression for the next 40 or 50 years until i die out on the fields yeah there we go now that's a day or i'm murdered

by a neighbor one of the two i'm kind of in that's's what I mean. So 18, they're like, later. Yeah. No pussy in this town. Goodbye. People trudging out here. Or the opposite. Or no dick in this town. All the dick in this town is covered in dust and manure. I'm getting out of here.

It's quite wrinkly. It's disgusting in this town. So the marriage rate, too, a lot higher. Normally, it's 50-50. Here, it's 60%. Okay. Which is an older population. You're going to get that usually.

And like I said, people get married and come back here, it seems like. So obviously you get less single people. A few more divorces here than normal. I would think that, and I think like quarantining and shit like that over the last few months has brought that out. Oh, I'll bet you the divorce rate is going to go through the fucking roof by December. Yeah. People aren't used to spending time together.

No. If you think about it, really, marriage maybe your marriage i don't know not jimmy's but no maybe like yours or somebody else's like whatever somebody you know you think about it you go to work in the morning you see somebody for a half hour maybe you go to work you come home you see them eat dinner yeah you watch tv by the way we know yeah you spend like three hours together and you're not really you're on your together, and you're not really, you're on your phone, you're dicking around, you're watching TV half the time. Telling with the kids.

You're not really spending any time with these people whatsoever. And then to be slammed in. Forever. Forever. It's not good. It's what it feels like. It's bad for some people. It really is.

It's not just bad. Sometimes it's disastrous. Sometimes it's worse. Well, there's been domestic shit. Sure murders and this is like what happens with athletes athletes when their career is over they go home and they're divorced within a year because the wife's like well i didn't expect you to be here all the time the last 10 years you have been we've had a schedule right where i get to get away from you for a couple of months and enjoy these large paychecks for a little bit yeah or yeah it's it's you know and he's like you

know what i i don't disagree it was real nice being on the road with those women in the hotel well no that's the other thing too is they're on the road doing all their shit and then they get home and they're fucking bored because they can't have sex with three strangers that night so they're like well this sucks jesus christ and yeah there's only one of you maybe if you weren't doing that you'd be satisfied with this you're a jerk so anyway here the the uh there's a lot less single people with children though the people with kids are married it's one of those deals you get pregnant you lock it down you're single with no children 2.1 percent of the population wow it's normally 10 so it's staggeringly low staggeringly low if you're looking for a you know a carefree partner good

luck it's you know two out of a hundred and so that means wow that is not a lot at all that is what 20 people out of the whole town and the chances that you're actually attracted to one of those 20 it's like very well it's like 30 people in the whole town are single with no children that's that's not that's staggering i mean and they most of them are probably hideous too just just based on stats of normal you know not necessarily appearance but fucking personality it's got to be a tragedy other yeah either ugly or ugly personality one of the two or both or both so race of this town 92 percent white yeah as you might expect in western nebraska and a 1.1 percent asian Interesting. Which is, yeah, okay, sure. 1% Native American.

They really whittled that down over the years from 100% to one. Jesus Christ. 4.1% Hispanic. So it's not very, it's pretty white. Yeah. It's a white farming town. It's not diverse.

No, not very. 56% of the people in this town are religious. So it's a little bit more. And they're split up pretty. Really? There's not a real dominant one here. There's some Catholics, some Lutherans, some Methodists, 8% other. A couple of Mormons thrown in there.

It is the West. Right. That's that. Close enough to Utah. 0.0% Jewish, though. Sounds right. It's not going to work there. 0.0% Islam as well. not going to work there 0.0% Islam as well

so it's the way it is we're not going to do politics till 2021 because I don't want to get yelled at for other people's votes I'm just going over my list so anyway unemployment rate here is 4.1% which is you know a little over the average

but not too much and some of those you don't know when you have ranches and shit like that, it's the way unemployment figures are. It gets hard to figure out at that point. Now, the income, usually household income average in the U.S. is $57,500. Here it is $68,421. So there's a few extra bucks here. They're making money.

They're making money. And transportation and warehousing are a quarter of the jobs here. I wonder what that is. It's usually 4% of the jobs. So it's definitely what they do here. I don't know if that's a stop off for rail. I don't know what it is, but that seems to be, I mean, it's employing one out of four people who are employed in this town.

Is the railroad considered both of those things? Because that's possibly what it is. I mean, that would be transportation, warehousing. But yeah, it's literally one out of four people with jobs probably do that. So it's got to be. I mean, you add that and then like, you know, health care is 15 percent. And that's 40 percent of the people are either health care or doing that. So it's pretty limited in terms of diversity of jobs to have a cost of living.

A hundred is normal, you know you know regular here it's about 82 and the low thing is housing health care is way high it's like 137 housing is 50 out of 100 though the median home cost here 115 800 wow so not too shabby over 70 of the houses are worth $150,000 or less in this town. It's not bad. No, it's not. The real estate is cheap. And if you're looking for some, maybe we can help you find some with the Sutherland, Nebraska Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here is about $760 a month, which I don't even know if there is any. But there is actually one because it's for sale, like a strip of apartments. It's one of those one-story.

There's like six of them in a row. It's bleak looking. It's a flat. It's bleak looking, yeah. I found a three-bedroom, one-bath house. It's a house. It's a house. 2,833 square feet. big place uh 75 000 for it

that's a giant place for one bathroom yeah what the fuck might be one and a half they just listed it poorly but that's bizarre that would be weird if you only had one bath 75k though you can throw another bathroom in there if you really want to. Four bedroom, one bath, 1,704 square feet. Kind of ugly, but 80,000 bucks. Okay. So, I mean, you can live with that if you have three kids and you want to stick them in their own rooms. Again, sharing a bathroom. Always.

Then I found this one. Stretch out a little. You own the warehouse or whatever the fuck it is. I found a six bedroom, six bath, T-Ball for every B-Hall. Hell yeah. Damn it. 7,000 square feet. Big place.

Picture of success. 362,500 bucks. Very cheap. Get out of here. I swear, that's cheap as shit. Oh my God, I want that. How cheap is that? I want that here or somewhere livable.

Yeah, somewhere that's not rural Nebraska. That'd be terrific. Yeah, here that house would be $3 million. Yeah, about. $3.62 million. 30 how many square feet? 7,000 square feet. Six beds, six baths, 7,000 square feet.

Disgusting. Yeah, that's a big house. You have to own several Taco Bells to own that. Several. Several Taco Bells and a Del Taco to diversify. And have a drug front there there was also another house that was just hilarious because the whole the entire side of the house like you know it's a big like two-story house wall right was just the american flag painted stop there they painted

the flag on the entire it was fucking huge it's a house it was a big drawing a big painting i was like whoa that's a lot i'm gonna talk to that that is aggressive i want to hear all those stories yeah you know wow that's a lot so i don't know things to do here not a lot as you might imagine right even in the reviews it said i found the i think this is a north plat uh this is the 2019 because i think it's not going on anymore. Nothing's happening. Country Music Foundation. Yes. 39th Annual Festival. All right.

It's a terrible name. The Foundation. It's the Country Music Foundation 39th Annual Festival. How about the 39th Annual Country Music Foundation Festival? How about that? Or just the Country Music Festival. Move that 39th Annual up the front there, and you have yourself a coherent sentence. And move Foundation out of there. There's too many syllables in that shit. It's just a lot. Yeah. It's a whole line. It's a lot. CMF? festival move that 39th annual up the front there and you have yourself a coherent sentence and move

foundation out of there there's too many syllables in that shit it's just a lot yeah it's a whole line it's a lot cmf bitches so uh they'll be at the ag activity center yeah oh boy the agriculture activity center at the lincoln county fairgrounds in north platte they have silent auctions and and raffles and shit like that. They have banquet tickets as well. I don't know what that includes. Hors d'oeuvres, a meal, a door fee, and entertainment slash dancing. That sounds like a fuckload of money being raised for nothing going out. It's for the Country Music Foundation.

What the fuck do they need all this money for? I don't know. I found this. foundation what the fuck do they need all this money for i don't know i found this you can if you want to find out you can contact uh deb shaw yeah who sounds like she runs i have her phone number but i won't give it out on this show because everyone's going to be because you could it says call or text everyone's going to be texting deb hey deb i am not going to make i'm not going to have hundreds of thousands of people texting poor deb asking her where's the money going deb deb where's that cash go?

Really? How much money do they need? $30? Is that high? What kind of hors d'oeuvres do you have? I can't do it to this point. Silent auction? People are paying too much for this shit.

She's probably a sweet lady who's just trying to do people a favor and fucking set things up. She's like, I don't even spend the money. I'm just a volunteer. I don't know. Why are they texting me? Open the books, Deb. Tell us. I have to change my phone number I'm just a volunteer. I don't know. Open the books, Deb. Tell us. I have to change my phone number now.

We can't do that to poor Deb. We just can't. I want to know. Beverages and bar provided by the Last Chance Bar, which I assume they mean last chance before a long open stretch of highway. And dry counties. Yeah, which is what Sutherland kind of is their food catered by rowdy rot bbq ew r-o-t-t like rowdy rottweiler i assume their sign probably has a growling dog

fucking better but it has the word rot and you're selling me meat so don't don't sell me meat with the word rot anywhere around it ew no thank you there's a reason why johnny rotten didn't open a string of barbecue joints after the sex pistols there's a reason why yeah he's like it's going to be it's amazing johnny rotten some people are like i don't think that's a good idea terrible idea fuck if i can't use my name why bother it's trademarked it's terrible i go and make him australian sorry it's fine i made him i don't even know what an alien whatever that is whatever the fuck that was so schedule leave bro schedule provided now saturday night's performances obviously it's the country music festival

there's going to be performances they have three bands only three three one is called okay sisters yeah no it's not OK comma sisters. Like, OK sisters, listen up. Yeah. OK sisters. So I look at it as OK sisters. Like, they're OK. It's probably two chicks from Oklahoma.

That's what I thought after that. I'm like, maybe they're just from Oklahoma. Or they're trying to make a little play on the OK Corral. Possibly. Is it O dot K? No, no, no. It's just OK. Capital OK, like the state abbreviated.

And their names are Kate and Karen, which are very unfortunate for a couple, because that's, I think, well, that was Kathy. Put upon Kathy. If it was Kathy and Karen, that'd be perfect. So also John Longoria's West Wind. Okay. I don't know what's going on there. Ava's brother.

West Wind? West Wind. Okay. I don't know. I hate it already. Farts blowing westward. Yeah. And Lloyd McCarter and the Honky Tonk Revival.

Oh, boy. Yee-haw. Scoop-dap-dee-beep-blop-bloop. That's happening, baby. Last week, there was somebody in the festival that sang songs that I know. Yeah, this one. I didn't realize that it was the guy. These I have never fucking heard of.

Pretty sure you don't have any OK Sisters floating around in your phone. Nothing in my iPod. Yeah. Crime rate in this town, property crime is under half the average. It's less than half the national average. So it's low. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, also very low.

It's under one-third of the average. Super safe. Super safe. The people are spread out. There's not a lot going on. You'd really have to make an effort to want to fuck with somebody in a place like this. This is a place where even if you were mad at someone, you'd have to go, Ah, Christ, I've got to go all the way the fuck over there.

Yeah. But also, people are making money and spending very little. Yeah. That's a one way to keep your population. I think so. And also if people are spread out, they just fight less. There's just less reason to fight. So that said, let's talk about a murder.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just

garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our

podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Now that we've explained all the reasons why it doesn't happen here, let's tell you about something that is just inexplicably happened here. This, by the way, this case changed laws to Supreme Court rulings

about separate issues in this made precedent like this shit is a a huge case out of such a tiny little weird acorn a giant oak tree of shit bloomed little little shit corns dropping off all over the place smacking people in the head i just like to go out in your yard and have that oh the shit shit corn season It's littering the ground. Oh, God. I hate fall. Oh, shit. It looks like fucking giant rabbits have been running around our yard.

This is terrible. Pumpkin lattes remind me of the shit corn. Fall is the worst season. It's shit corn season. So, yeah, put that on the menu, Starbucks. Give me a shit corn latte, and then you're, tell you what, sold. You can't even go outside, you're stuffing the shit corn. Pumpkin doesn't remind me of fall, it's the shit corns.

That's what always reminded me of fall. Me and my family would go out and collect the shit corns and, you know, something special. Pumpkin spice candles in the house just remind me that we're trying to knock down the shit corn smell. That's what it is. Yeah, we had to cut down our shit corn tree when I was a kid it was it was too much yeah got to be too much yeah it's rough so to talk about this murder first of all i must describe how this newspaper and this is a like a you know national article and the the lincoln new the local lincoln newspaper was very helpful for this and everything but this one here this is how this the town is described in the newspaper nationally and

everything else i got this one from a honolulu newspaper just to see how far it went and it goes far honolulu so as far as it goes for the u.s anyway it says quote sutherland nebraska nebraska is a bleak prairie village that vibrates when the long Union Pacific freight trains thunder through its people, ranchers and railroad workers now swollen with construction crews building a state power plant view North Platte with the suspicion that North Platte views Omaha and that Omaha views New York. Okay. Well done, Kimo. Dude,o dude that guy wrote that on the beach bro that's what we're dealing with shit out of your town but they basically said they sit here and sneer at big north like like omaha looks at new york which is like man look at all them over there that's how they look at north platte. Jesus. Thinking they're fancy over there with their country foundation festivals

and the OK Sisters. Cats up package. We can get the OK Sisters to come here, too, thinking you're fucking fancy. And you spell it cats up. That's how we do it here. God damn it. So I don't care if you say it the other way. That's how we like to do it. There's no C-H in cats up that's how we do it here god damn it so i don't care if you say it the other way that's

how we like to do it there's no ch and cats up a long time ago the mayor spelt it like that and we've just been doing it ever since it's just how it is here so we must talk about first of all a young man in the 1970s because we're gonna go back to the 1970s for this. 1970s. Class. This is the town has about a little less than 800 people here. It's, you know, it's the 70s in western, you know, bleak Nebraska. So, you know, put whatever scope you want on that or whatever prism. Instagram filter. Yeah, whatever prism you want to see that through. So first we must talk about a man named Erwin Charles Simmons.

S-I-M-A-N-T-S. Okay. Simmons, however you want to say it. Simmons. Erwin here, sometimes known as Herbie for some reason. Yeah. Why? I don't know.

Why not? It's the 70s. It's the 70s. Yeah, anything. It's the 70s and it's like western Nebraska. So you can really. He might drive a Volkswagen and it's like western nebraska so you can really he might drive a volkswagen and people are like herby look at you or maybe he's just small and white which he is actually he's 5 7 130 pounds it's a real herb so he's a little herby yeah he's

a little tiny little guy so i mean that's a 130s it's it's thin that's a light dude he's your 5 7 what do you weigh 180 well that's what i mean you got 50 pounds on this guy a light dude. Because you're 5'7". What do you weigh? 180. That's what I mean. You got 50 pounds on this guy. I don't look that chubby, but- No, you're not a fucking big guy. Minus the shirt, I look terrible. 130, you would look awful. You'd look emaciated. I would take you to the hospital if you came over 130 pounds.

Jimmy, what happened? Oh, my God. Jimmy. I'm doing great. Falling over. I'm so hungry. Oh, God. Don't touch me. I bruise easy. I'm doing great. Falling over. I'm so hungry. Oh, God. Don't touch me.

I bruise easy. I'm in pain. I'm in a lot of pain. Are you okay? No. I think I have aggressive cancer, but I'm thin. I like it. I'm thin.

I'm thin. I got the Stephen King. I haven't eaten in six months, but I'm thin. So, Edwin here, he's born about 1945. So, you know, you can keep that in mind as we go through it. He is one of nine kids. Oh, boy. Yeah, nine kids.

His dad's name is Amos. Yeah, it is. Amos and Grace are his parents. Amos and Grace on the farm with nine kids. This is different. Amos's don't exist anymore, right? Not a lot of them, no. Unless it's some Hollywood douche celebrity naming their kids.

Something, yeah. Not a lot of Amos's running around the farm anymore, and Grace has come and gone and come back again. It's coming. It's coming back. Well, now it's whatever names sound like an old lady, that's what people their kids now that's what it is you know it's a beautiful name haven't the gertrude isn't it wonderful no what about francis how about beatrice isn't beatrice kids are named people are naming their kids fucking beatrice all over the place it's like there hasn't been a woman named beatrice since 1893 right and now you're like beatrice that's gonna work miss arthur died let her rest yeah

that's come on leave her alone god damn it leave dorothy's borneck alone leave maude in peace let everybody rest so he's born out there he's kind of he's from this area his parents are you know long long long time residents live through the dust bowl here and this is you know this is a different kind of time now he actually he's not a bright guy no let's just right away put that on the on the table here he's not a bright guy but he's considered a kind of an average guy and a decent guy he's not a troublemaker at all he doesn't you know doesn't go off the hinges he's not starting fights at 5 7 130 that's probably for the best.

He's not getting beat up constantly, you know. It's smart. To his own interest. Yeah. Maybe he tried that at an earlier age. It was like, Jesus, this hurts. That's not a good idea. It hurts to be an asshole when you're this big. Fuck.

So he actually, in the mid-60s, he finds a wife. So he gets married very young, in his his early 20s and marries this woman. And they end up having a young daughter. And the daughter dies before she's a year old. Fuck. The baby passes away. And this messes the marriage completely. They're young.

They have a baby. And like I said said that's a tragedy for anybody yeah yeah even if you don't know how it goes no no matter how solid your marriage is no matter how long you've been together how mature everybody is that's that's an emotional thing that's going to rip your yeah it's going to rip everything apart barring uh parental murder uh yeah any way that that child dies is not good for me. For anybody. It's going to fuck the marriage up like a gremlin jumping in and pulling wires out. That's what basically that is. Singing New York, New York.

Exactly. Opening up its trench coat. Showing its little gremlin dick to everybody. I love that part. The second one was. I love that he was a pervert, too. Like, on top of everything else, he's also a fucking pervert. But not like an outright rape. It's just hey look at that honey i'm gonna whack it later thinking about this

what a weird it's just fucking funny they're just thinking what are what are all the gross people in bars let's make the gremlins do that the best part is that you know exactly what it looked like too like you don't even have to see it you know green and shriveled that's not big no it's not impressive like a green tootsie roll but that's been in a washing machine and then dry or afterwards and it's kind of melted shocking horrifying part is how small it is yeah like oh god jesus what if he just had like a giant like magnificent like veiny black cock hanging down like just uh you know one thing you'd be like, whoa. Wow. Like, majestic. Like, one where you'd be like, god damn.

Where everybody just not, objectively, they'd be like, that's a hell of a cock right there. That's a lot of dick. I mean, I don't even, I'm not into it or nothing, but it's a good dick. Being honest, I'm really uncomfortable, but I'm not looking at it. I'd still like to give you a high five, sir. It's an impressive dick. And I'm talking men, women, everybody. Just as a matter of, like, you know.

Just respect. Yeah. Like, if you saw somebody, like, you know, dunk from know dunk from the foul line you'd be like damn that was pretty sweet good for you same thing yeah you know nothing for me but yeah that was again it's just nature both ways if you can jump from the foul line or if your cock is magnificent either way it's nature so it's compliment compliments so he gets a divorce uh they end up getting a divorce this couple the young couple that says like and it's you don't you expect it yeah you really do expect it now the years of the divorce i can't i've seen conflicting reports and both from court documents so i don't know which

one is right uh he either got divorced in 1967 or he got divorced in 1971 oh not sure which it really is irrelevant but just i'm not sure so if you somebody for your gap so i'm not sure which one either way the the daughter passed away kind of that precipitated the divorce so that's that's how that went perhaps it was filed in 67 and final in 71 that's possible that's probably because it was in two different court documents but the one thing was and it mattered to the case slightly, that his ex-wife hadn't seen him since then. They haven't really had any contact. So whether it was from 67 or 71 sort of makes a difference in the trial. But other than that, it really doesn't matter.

So anyway, he's not the brightest guy. Like I said, he has a 75 IQ, which is yeah i'd call that a cool 75 it's low yeah it's on the low side definitely uh it's you know you're you're in gump range in that a little higher but you're in range of you're within margin of error of forrest gump is what i mean like if it was an election you'd go that's in the margin of error on a poll that's a margin of error to gump it's not good it's uh it's rural educated uh nebraska but it's also that's iq though that's not education yeah but it's lack of like nutritional uh development possibly too much corn i don't know if grace and amos are related who know or you never know you have nine kids maybe two of them are fucking geniuses and one of them does this i mean i don't know chances of you having somebody that's

a little slower if you have nine a little higher yeah one out of nine people are a little you know aren't that bright so there you go one i don't know you know it's true though i've seen families that have smart kids and dumb kids it's just a matter of it's a crapshoot who knows what the fuck what's you know what stew got cooked up that night that's a it's a yeah scary my mom got pregnant six times and had three miscarriages uh yeah i wonder if one of those was the genius you never know that's what i mean she took out the wrong slugs in a russian roulette game you never fucking know what happened wrong shells ma whoops the daisy whoops so so are you proud how you doing i'm the one you chose You never fucking know what happened. Wrong shells, man. Whoops-a-daisy. Whoops. Hi.

Are you proud of me? How you doing? I'm the one you chose. Or not you chose. I miscarried. I'm the one that worked. I'm the jeans that stayed together. Imagine what the other ones would have happened. Jesus.

So he's IQ of 75. So you can take from that what you will. But like I said, not a troublemaker. He's not going around, you know, petting dogs too hard and hurting them because he doesn't get it or anything like that. He's fine. He does his thing. He's kind of marginally employed. One of those guys.

He's kind of got, he's on the margins. He's just, he's like a fence builder and a handyman. And he doesn't own any property to have a ranch he doesn't really have any skills to do anything else he's kind of got a little bit of a drinking thing he drinks a little bit hangs out at the bars and drinks and sounds like frustration drinking and boredom too and loneliness and boredom and everything else and what the what the hell is he gonna do it sit and look at the prairie and every night i mean there isn't a lot to do you get it if you've been in if you've been building fences all day yeah when you're done what do you do spin your

wheels all day yeah gotta get some lubricant in there and it's the it's the 70s too so it's not like oh well i got you know i'll go home and see what's on hulu right you know like no it's there's nothing to do there's a mash in the middle of nowhere there's like two channels out here you're not even getting network feeds all of them right in the middle of here you got a goddamn antenna and good luck to you so um he ends up by 1975 he's unemployed he's trying to do handyman work here and there but he's he's just unemployed he's drinking more and more he's living with his sister um in in sutherland here at the end of a long street there's like a long kind of a rural dusty road with two houses at the end of it okay that's kind of what where we are here my fun huh

that's where he's living with the sister you're around the corner and you're like it's just down there jesus well i don't want to go down there alone i gotta bring people there's a lot of distance between here and there nothing Nothing there. Nothing there. I'm going to call someone and tell them where I am, just so they know. I don't trust this at all. So he lives with his sister. Here he is. I'll show you a picture of him, Jimmy.

Well. There he is. Those are some interesting sideburns. Is that a beard? It's 1975. Okay. So he's got just the long sideburns down the side. But they're long.

Yeah. Not just the length of them, but the hair involved. Is he smoking? He's smoking a cigarette. Again, that's the 70s. You let your sideburns, that long hair on them. Just meet up a bit. It was pretty gross.

But they're thin. You know what I mean? That's a weird sideburn. I don't think he grows facial hair well, but he wants to have cool sideburns because it's the 70s. You go hard on those. He's got an early comb over here. He does. He's only about 30 in this picture.

Really? He's got a hard, it's a hard comb. It's a hard part and a push. Hard part and push, yeah. It's not going to go well. You see future pain there for him. There's a lot of sadness in that face. I see a lot more rural drinking nights for this guy.

Not a lot behind those eyes. No. And everybody says that when his daughter died, he was never like an up-and-comer, you know, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed or anything. But when his daughter died, it kind of just took a little more light out of his eyes. I imagine. Which is understandable. And that's also very normal. That also shows a normal emotional response, which is good.

That's also very normal. That also shows a normal emotional response, which is good. And if your infant daughter dies, you should be crushed, and you should give that a mourning process. Not parsing between male and female either, but you lose your daughter. And as a man, you feel like a way worse dude. It's different. It's 4% worse for a father, I think. Not than a mother, but for a father, if it's a girl, then a boy. So you'd be like, that's your daughter's supposed to protect.

Fuck. What have I done? Exactly. And obviously this was an illness and nothing that anybody or might have been SIDS even. I'm not sure. It was a. Yeah. It was not a preventable death.

It wasn't like she fell in the pool or something. It was definitely a very unpreventable thing here. Now, his ex-wife. Okay. yeah her name is mary olsen and she says that she went to the doctor uh this is so weird she said that her and her sister know him and her sister remained friends with him after they got divorced and that the sister had told her that the sister went to the doctor with him at one point and he has like a apparently she was saying he has some sort of she says this in 1975 that he has like a tumor the size of a fist in his stomach jesus okay but i don't know that's it's not possible because we'll find out. But it's just a strange thing here. She says that the ex-wife, Mary Olsen, said that her sister, who was, quote, very close to Irwin, told her a doctor advised him that he would not live past age 30 without a surgery to remove the growth.

Which, by 1975, he is 30. So that prediction is blown. And is it cancer or is it just a growth? We don't know. It's a growth. growth they just called it a growth they didn't say he's got a big ovarian cyst growing it's very painful yeah so they said that uh she said that they told he told a bunch of other people the same thing and this was like you know whatever uh you know like a known thing oh he's got a big tumor in his stomach he's got to to get it removed. Okay. You know Irwin with the tumor. Right. You know, Cystie Irwin or Cystie Herbie over there.

I grow two things, sideburns and tumors. Sideburns, tumors, and corn. That's me, baby. It's the trifecta. Triple threat. Triple threat. They call me Herbie Trifecta. Back where I'm from.

I'm Herbie Hattrick. Herbie, Herbie Hatt hat trick sideburns tumors and corn boom that's right so that trick now he never has it removed okay he's apparently according to olsen he was afraid of doctors so he didn't have the operation okay he fears doctors i did that with dentists for a long long time well yeah this is apparently he's afraid of anybody with a white coat on okay anybody so she he describes she describes him as quote very sweet and gentle um he's he values life very highly because he was sad he was when the baby don't you know died and all that sort of thing.

And she even later on, well, we'll talk about that later on, but she stays, she gets back in touch with him, Mary, and they still talk and she remains kind of a confidant for him at a later date. Very strange. So they must have had a semi-amicable divorce. He clearly didn't terrorize her or stalk her. She didn't get away from him to save her life or anything like that she has nothing but nice things to say about him she's just like it just didn't work out how amazing are those people people right amicable divorces yeah gone through a divorce and they just we just realized we're

better off as friends we did what yeah who whose idea was that my parents were always like that and i was always like bullshit the hell happened to you too i never believed they were always nice to each other they always said nice things about each other i'm like i don't know about this something's off this is fishy this whole thing is fishy god damn it so october 18th 1975 uh this is a a normal day for erwin we'll say he's hanging out he's really doesn't have anything to do no work or anything like that uh you know it's a fall day in the middle of nowhere no work today nope he went to a couple of bars in sutherland you know put back a couple of beers a couple of his friends were there you know guys he used to know from work and a cousin and this one would

be a brother or sister over there and it's a small town so if you you know there's not a lot to do what a day especially back there so you'll run into people if you go to the bar you know everybody there so finally um he he lives with his sister by the way uh the i think that by the way the the sister's husband's name is butchie boggs which is one of the better names we've ever come across on this show. Pretty goddamn good. So it's his sister, her husband. Do they have kids? Yeah, there's other people there, too.

They have a 13-year-old son as well here. So he lives with her, like we said, at the end of that road. So about 8 o'clock p.m. on October 18, 1975, he's hanging out at the bar his sister's there as well yeah a bunch people are there he asks his sister to take him to her house because he's done for the night he's like yeah i don't know if he's out of money or if he's just he's been drinking all afternoon but not like he's not shit-faced or anything he's just been kind of maintaining maintaining hanging out having a beer not not like pounding to get drunk just this has been his hangout for the day social social exactly so no one said he was stumbling away or anything like that 45 years ago like two days ago yeah this is very that's kind of

fascinating well it's like a halloween it's that same month it's kind of why i picked it so there we go i have themes and things i'm doing here yeah that's what i like doing this shit so he he ends up doing that and they she takes him home now at the end of the street like we said there's only two houses here there is the bogs residence where he lives with his sister sister's son other people in and out you know smattering of boxes smattering of the boxes well that's the brother-in-law's name so yeah smattering of bogs and uh and sim and simances and all sorts of people in there so next door to them is the other house sitting there is the residence of a guy named henry kelly uh k-e-l-l-i-e for kelly now the kelly family henry kelly is like known as the sweetest

man in the town really he everybody likes him he. He's kind of semi-retired. He's 66 years old. He's semi-retired. He does some farm work to supplement his social security. He's that kind of guy. He's got stuff. Easy life. Easy life, yeah, and he enjoys his life.

He worked hard his whole life. He's been through it. Yeah, that's the thing. He and his wife adopted their granddaughter, Florence, whose mother had been killed in an auto accident. So that's how nice people they are. He's like a pastor sometimes. Just like an amateur. It's not making any money off it.

He's fucking around. He just likes to spread the word of how happy he is, I feel like, and how wonderful the world is. That's how it feels to me. He's just a, let me tell you about it. I'm doing this shit for free. Life can be good. and i'll tell you how you gotta be me and he is him so henry kelly his wife also marie kelly he's 66 she's 57 and uh they have their son david who lives down the street and his kids as well he He's got a couple of kids. Deanna, who's seven years old.

Daniel's five years old. So David, Deanna and Daniel are always over the house. They eat dinner there most nights. They live not too far away. So they stop by, see the parents. Very nice. And then also living there is the adopted granddaughter, Florence, who's 10 years old. So 66, 66 57 son 32

his kids seven and five granddaughter adopted 10 right so there you go that's the kind of why the fuck didn't daniel step up and keep my life happy you adopt this little girl because yeah you got little kids already you're younger she blends in your oldest kid let's say she's 10 you give her like two years she can babysit for you this is great you and your wife can and your wife can go out and go to weird swinger parties and shit in North Platte. You know how they are over there in North Platte, all weird. My sermon got a little sadder when I had to do this. It was so happy. By the way, one of the newspapers I was reading from here was the funniest shit because, have

you ever seen the movie Ed Wood? Yeah. Okay. And I love the movie ed wood yeah okay and i love the movie ed wood right so in that movie like the the the guy he sees what's his name from dumb and dumber the jeff daniels no no no the who are we talking about the big guy oh the big guy he's frenchy and good fellas and he's you know that guy he's the guy who is like johnny depp is pitching his first film too and he's it's a you know he's talking about in the movie, the guy's like a transsexual and all this type of shit. So he says, the guy's like, God, those repressed Okies love that fucking shit.

I'm done. They'll eat it up. Those repressed, they love it. And so I always laughed at that. But then I was looking in the paper from 1975, and it is just all porn in all the theaters in this fucking place. It is just porn, porn, porn, porn in all the theaters in this fucking place really it is just porn porn porn porn porn come see this one was like uh she's worth every inch or some shit and then it was like all these 70s porn one had that rock had a name i reckon like a 70s porn name i

recognized like i know that guy is stiffington yeah one of those yeah a hard cocking bergen dinton so it's all that and then like cock hardman and like casablanca at seven and then casa cockman exactly no that's what was playing like porn porn porn and then there'd be like a theater playing literally disney bambi and then it was porn porn porn hilarious hard cock bambi wet snatch it was just boom boom boom that's what it was advertised very strange unreal with bambi in the middle getting eiffel towered by cock hardington and a dear housewife don't mix up showtimes yeah watch out don't come before or you'll be coming before must be out of the theater by 10 because shit's about to get sticky everybody your kids are gonna sit in a puddle too oh it's gonna be gross so how crazy is that that that was a fucking business in america for so long sitting around

and getting horny in public tugging in public constantly public tugging i mean it was a fucking wild that is a strange, odd- It doesn't make any sense to me. But back then, what else could you do? Yeah. Like, if you wanted porn in the 70s, you had to get like a film and project it on a fucking wall. Literally.

Like, that's how you watched porn at home. You had to order a film out of the back of a magazine, and they sent you reels of film. Reel to reel. You had to fucking project on a sheet that's insane you're sitting you're fucking that's how people watch porn yeah like like chevy chase and christmas vacation except with porn and not family movies it's gonna be not not attractive man and then once obviously videotapes came and people could rent them then it was like oh why the hell am i going out i could whack it in my living room it was so hard to be a deviant maybe that's why

society was so fucked up and there were so many awful people to be so in the shadows because it was everything that's dirty and this is that once sex was out in the open i feel like it was a little we solved the problem a little easier stop being so shameful about it yeah just do it which is weird because which is strange because we moved the whacking inside right meanwhile they were not shameful at all they were whacking in a public place before right but they were shameful about doing the least shameful thing possible it's weird no shame in your public whacking game you know what i mean but then again now it's less shameful you're it's so weird i don't it. People will admit to whacking it in their living room.

They won't admit to going to see a movie and whacking it with a group of other men. Or worse, like a tug studio where there's like the window that pops up and a girl like fingering herself and then you're tugging to that. Like, why is it so shameful? I remember when I was a kid, dude, there was some gross shit. Yeah, because it's New York. Yeah, when I was a kid, like before, like it got all Disney-fied and shit, like it was some gross shit because this was like yeah because it's New York yeah when I was a kid like before like it got all

Disneyfied and shit like it was fucking gross in a great way it was dirty and filthy and I remember like I had friends it would be we'd be like 12

but they'd be like I went down to the city with my older brother right and fuck because we were like an hour from the city went down to the city

with my older brother he took me to this booth 12 year old kid yeah it's like you give this lady five bucks and you can just stick anything you want in her and I'm like what are you talking about why do you

do that why would you do why would you want to stick anything in there i remember being like no you put like your fingers in there i'm like the look on my face was just the same look as when they give me mayonnaise and a shiny bun on my burger i'm just like don't do that and i'm thinking jesus well i don't i don't know who's the bigger victim here this is just gross in every way shape or form and he's 12 like smiling about it like oh it was great you're gonna love it you gotta go down there i'm like no i don't think so i don't think i'm gonna do that that is gross but that's the type of grossness that used to be available. It's either that or you fill a sandwich bag with Vaseline and jam it in the couch cushions. Which one's worse, James?

I mean. Because I know dudes that did that shit. And then openly told us. And you're like. They do both of that. Why'd you do that? Yeah. I feel like they do both.

Hey, why'd you do it? One would fuel the other. B, why are you telling me? Don't tell me about that. You fucking creep. Jesus Christ. You can't get the ones with the seal because that'll chafe you gotta get the ones that have the full you're telling you're telling me the sandwich not the ziploc tell me which bag is fuckable you'd have to assume you'd have to fold the ziploc back otherwise you'd be in trouble it's horrendous oh man so back to this mess here from our mess

which one's gross uh we'll see yeah 50 50 601 so they live next door like we said mr kelly by the way uh henry has been help he helps erwin out yeah he does he's nice to him he helps everybody out and erwin's right next door so he helped him out and as a matter of fact 20 days earlier because this is the 18th this was uh that's 20 days earlier kelly had uh mr kelly bailed erwin out of jail and paid a fine for him so he wouldn't have to stay in jail he got picked up for not paying a fine for public intoxication and then couldn't pay the fine for that couldn't pay it so they put him in jail okay so henry kelly came down and paid fifty dollars and sprung him okay because he felt bad for him he's like hey he was drunk it's no reason for the guy to sit in jail because he was drunk two months ago that's that's dumb nobody got hurt

why should he be there so and they said that one person a neighbor said henry had done this sort of thing for years. If anybody needed a helping hand, he always gave it to him. That's just the way he was. Yeah. It's just one of these nice, kind, salt of the earth people. If you knocked on his door and said you were whatever, he'd say, well, why don't you come on in here and get a lemonade and some fried chicken and some, you know, nice cornbread homemade. We'll talk about it.

Yeah. She's been making corn all day. It's been just it. Yeah, she's been making cornbread all day. It's been just wonderful. You're going to love it. It's delicious. Want some fresh honey on that? Oh, boy, do I. Butter from the farm?

I love it. Yes, I do. That's the type of thing I feel like. They're just generous, helping nice people. So during this time through October, the last couple weeks, Irwin's been doing odd jobs around mr kelly's house to try to repay him because he doesn't have any cash to repay him so they just kind of you

know something needs to be done go physical shit that 66 year old man doesn't feel like doing he'll dig a hole or he'll do something like that for him working it off and a nice arrangement i mean that's that's pretty sweet deal that's rotten abberly i'd rather work on your farm than be in jail who wouldn't yeah you know what i mean and i think this guy would rather have help than have 50 bucks in his neighbor in jail so yeah what the hell so he you know he's living there next door and this is going on seems like a nice thing here because he is unemployed as well apparently simmons used to work at the Hershey Grain Elevator at one time. Not the chocolate factory. No.

I'm wondering if that would count as warehousing transportation, like warehousing a grain elevator. So if they store a lot of grain here, which maybe it's kind of a central grain clearinghouse for Nebraska. I could see it. It's on the rail line. Maybe farther farms bring it to places like this to get on for rail still a tough job still seems like that's a tough one fuck that job it sounds hot and dusty yep very dusty you'd always have you you'd cough up like pieces chunks of grain yeah chunks of of flora right you'd be coughing up what is that jesus why is my that's green with with a man

with a man telling you breaks over a lot a lot yeah well your one break yeah it's over so this was um you know he that this has been working off some shit and living with his sisters better than working at the grain elevator i guess or whatever the hell it's called. Yeah, grain elevator. So like we said, the family, the Kellys there, they lived about a block away was the two kids and the son of the Kellys. But they go over there and eat dinner. So now back to Irwin. He goes back to his sister's house after drinking with his sister and everybody. She leaves him there and goes back to the bar.

Okay. So he ends up hanging out. He's got his 13-year-old nephew there, his sister's kid. So he hangs out with the 13-year-old nephew. And he's very good with 13-year-old kids because he's pretty simple. He's kind of on their level.

Talk about the same shit. That's what I mean. It's kind of the same level of maturity. So he hangs out with the 13-year-old for a while, hangs out 20 minutes, half hour. They bullshit, shoot the shit. And then he goes into his sister and brother-in-law's bedroom and ends up grabbing a.22 rifle from in there. And, yeah, he gets some shells from some bullets there. He's got them.

His brother-in-law has them. Loads it all up. And he says that he's got him his brother-in-law has him loads it all up okay and um he says that you know he's going outside he tells his nephew to uh because there's littler kids to keep the kids in the house i'm gonna go outside and be shooting so you know you want to keep them in the house weird day don't want to hit any straight you know no any strays hitting the kids that's how rural this is that somebody's just like that's an activity i just go grab my gun and run in the backyard in the dark after i've been drinking all day and just buck some shots off fucking weird

thing to do it's a strange thing to do i've got guns and that's strange you don't get drunk and go shoot them in your backyard i don't know no nine o'clock at night you're just like i feel like popping some shots off i want to feel powerful right now doesn't happen i don't surprise jimmy not really uh no no i'll go shoot it but like i'll go out in the desert it's it's an all-day thing it's a schedule right yeah it's not like i've been drinking all day i'm kind of bored let me pop a clip in this gun and go outside i gotta get the fuck out of this place yeah and away from everybody and it's an all-day thing because you got to drive for for fucking ever in this goddamn state. Yeah.

You got to drive to get away from. What else do you want to shoot? Yeah. Fucking. I mean, they've got indoor places here. Oh, OK. That sounds awful. That sounds terrible.

Yeah. You don't want to gun nuts. That's too crammed in with these people. Yeah. I don't I understand. People are like, what you got there? Shut the fuck up. That's what I've got here.

Otherwise, we're going to shoot in the middle of Greenway Road. There's not a real city. There's not a lot of places to shoot really so it's so he goes out and he's got a loaded gun we keep the kids in the house and i'll be outside so he wanders outside um he's gone for about 45 minutes some shots are heard here and there you know nobody's paying attention he returns in about 45 minutes um unloads the rest of the rifle. Right. There you go. And puts the rifle, or I'm sorry, puts the bullets that he took and unloaded, puts them away. And then he writes a note on the kitchen table.

Yep. He says, quote, I am so sorry to all. It is the best way out. Do not cry. C-R-I-E, by the way. So just to give you a little insight he spells cry wrong three letter words so that's an emotion word that everybody knows since they were i don't know fucking five cry is a easy one it's a tough one for him he adds an extra letter and fucks yeah

trips him up a little bit so that's a weird note to leave on the table. Sounds like a suicide note, right? I'm sorry. Don't cry. This is the best way out. Like, that seems normal, but not doesn't commit suicide or anything. Writes the note out and then sits down with his nephew and comes to calmly tells them that. Yeah, you should tell you what I need you to do.

I did something. So call your mom. Call my sister here. Call your mom. And call also your grandparents, my parents. And tell them that I just went next door and killed everybody. I just killed all the Kellys. All of them.

I just named them all off. Killed him. Killed this one. I killed her, too. And then he came inilled him. Killed this one. Oh my God. I killed her too. And then he came in, so I had to kill him. And then I also killed him. No, did he? I killed this one. Oh, he got the kids.

I killed, they're all dead. He's an asshole. He said he's killed the entire family. So the teenager doesn't even, doesn't believe him. Yeah. Cause he's not a real consistent guy and he's had a few. Yeah. So you're like, is he fucking with me right you know

like what someone who has no history of violence calm normal guy just tells you i went outside and come back in i just killed all of our neighbors is a weird thing where you're like why we don't even have beef with them like they don't you like that like what the why the fuck would you do that just got you out of jail man absolutely so it's at this moment where everybody who's in sutherland hanging out um they're watching on tv one of the things on here in the local affiliate is the deadly tower the movie the deadly tower is on i don't know it's a big fucking it's a movie event here it's a big disaster movie where people are dying in a deadly tower clearly obviously that's only what i got from the newspaper okay so at 9

18 p.m uh knop which is the local affiliate station here uh nope nope k nope k nope fuck it thanks for watching notes i think we're watching k nope so don feldman comes on the air he is the only full-time newsman at the station it's a very small station in a very small area. This is when it gets real rural right now. This is when it's the small town murder aspect of this whole thing gets crazy. So he gets a call from the sheriff's office or what someone who says they're from the sheriff's office saying, quote, something terrible has happened in Sutherland. Hop Gordon, by the way, the hop glister, the sheriff's name is Sheriff Hop. Awesome.

Like fucking Stranger Things. It's not Hopper, but his nickname is Hop. So they all call him Hop. It's pretty fucking awesome. Like, this is cool as shit. Sheriff Hop's on the case. Sweet. So Hop here.

I'm just calling him Hop from now on. Hop Glister, the sheriff here, quote, wants you to put the following warning on the air immediately. So he's saying, interrupt the movie. This is the sheriff's department. Interrupt the movie. Sheriff needs you to tell everybody this. Quote, everybody lock your doors and windows.

Don't answer your door without a thorough check of the person knocking or ringing on doorbells. There's a sniper loose with a shotgun and he's killing people. Shotgun. Shotgun. So there's no information. The fucking town goes ape shit.

Yeah. Think about everybody sitting here quietly watching a movie. All of a sudden, lock your windows, lock your doors, maniac on the loose. He's shooting everybody. People were like,

holy shit. Not just maniac on the loose. He's fucking armed. He's an armed gunman. He's fucking don't lock your windows. That's that. To me, that says he's fucking armed uh there's an armed gunman he's fucking don't lock your windows like that to me that says he's going there's a person going out there to random houses shooting strangers door to door door to door probably next yeah it's i mean i'd look out the window but not turn the lights out first because he'll shoot you through the window

not through that people boy that's that's Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager,

but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot,

and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment.

While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down

to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media

would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts frightening if you're you know

mid-70s rural person in fact somebody said that now you'd be like even in the city even as cynical as you are you'd be like that doesn't sound good no you know that sounds bad jesus but you'd be like oh what part of the city is it in is it in here is it in gilbert or is it 45 minutes away from me who cares whereas this is the town is tiny so anywhere in the town is you're in danger there was a blue alert that came across my phone about a guy that was killing cops and i looked at the news and it was a 15th avenue in garfield i'm like fuck do i care how the hell am i well not that you don't. That's a bad thing. It's a matter of just that's an hour away from where you live. Not a threat to me.

Not a threat. Not anything. There's nothing you can do about it. May as well be in New York. That's what I'm saying. That would be like if someone got an alert in San Diego or something happening in L.A. You'd be like, well, what am I going to do about it? I live in another city.

I can't fix it. I can't fix that from all the way over here. And I'm not in danger. No, not at all. So the newsman demanded proof that this was really the sheriff's office. There's no caller ID. It's the 70s. So he said, who the fuck is this?

I'm not going to interrupt our movie and freak out the entire town unless I know this is a real source and not a crank call. So he arranged to return the call to the county jail. He said, well, call the county jail. you know he said we'll call the county jail you have the look up the fucking number in the phone book and call and i'll answer the goddamn phone and then you'll know who it is so that's what the guy does he looked up the county jail called and it's me again hi yep fucking lock your doors here we go tell everybody so he went oh shit i guess it's a real person and he said that uh he did tell the deputy that he's going to require more details than something terrible has happened.

He goes, I can't go on the air and say something bad is happening. Lock your doors. Like, this is the news. I'm not the town crier. Just go, everybody, bad things are going on. Lock up. That's weird. Now back to the Tower of Terror.

Back to the deadly tower. Enjoy. Now back to the Tower of Terror. Back to the deadly tower. Enjoy. So after a bunch of phone calls, including one where they do a short rave radio call to Sheriff Hopp here, who was 22 miles away from the station. They do that. And finally, KNOP, after talking to Hopp, puts up an interrupt bulletin to report that there's been a killing and that everyone should lock their windows and doors, admit no one, you know, maniac on the loose.

Holy shit, be careful. So 9.37 a.m. was when that came on there. So there you go. Deadly Tower, by the way, was about Whitman in Texas, the Bell Tower shooter there. That makes sense. Yeah. University of Texas shooter. That's what that was about. Deadly Tower, by the way, was about Whitman in Texas, the bell tower shooter there. That makes sense. Yeah. University of Texas shooter. That's what that was about.

Deadly Tower. That makes sense. Perfect. Perfect name. Really? Couldn't have been more on the nose. Couldn't have been more on the nose. But you never know because Die Hard could have been called the Deadly Tower also.

Who the fuck knows? So the population of North Platte, by the way, is 23,000 people, which is a lot bigger because at this point there was 800 and something in Sutherland. So this also airs in North Platte as well. So it freaks out another 25,000 people or so. So this police cars are there. There's roadblocks being set up. There's cops from every town, county, people with fucking flashlights going all over the town. Dead serious. It is absolute chaos.

Like, it's like if in a movie, if a little tiny blonde girl went missing in a movie in a small town, you just see flashlights going all over the darkness. Yeah. That's what's happening here. She's so blonde. So find her. She's got pigtails. We need to save her now. It's Denver with JonBenet.

Yeah, it's the exact same thing. So they're setting up all this shit. There's a television news helicopter from Denver that flies in. Wow. Oh, yeah. I mean, the news company chartered a helicopter because theirs is being serviced to fucking three hours away. Immediately fly there to fucking hover over this over the

town where is it shit can't be that hard to find so it's it's goddamn it's crazy all these alerts people are sitting basically from what everybody said everybody turned all their lights off and sat in the living room with their shotguns awesome literally whole family sitting around armed to the fucking teeth with the waiting for a creek on the front stairs nobody moved how dangerous is that though what if somebody didn't hear this and came over to borrow a cup of sugar or something they're gonna get blasted by everybody grandma shot him everybody shot him came home late they blow it through the door then open it let's see who oh shit bob oh we shot the fuck out of bob man god damn it i think it's bob call the sheriff and call nope we got him we got him call k no pieces it was bob

there was bob was on the way murdered everybody must have been bob so that's what's going on so what happened to cause this chaos well um usually i'll say this at the beginning of the show, but fucking buckle up, everybody, because this is rough. You might want to put down, if you're eating, put that down for a minute and relax here. So basically what he did is Irwin came into the house, into next door, into the Kelly's house. And the first person he encountered most of the family was out back yeah a couple people were in another room uh first person he encountered is 10 year old florence oh god damn it okay florence marie kelly um he tries to rape her what he tries to rape her at gunpoint that's the start of this that's the start of this oh boy

he tries to rape a 10 year old girl in her own living room at gunpoint. That's the start of this madness? That's the start of this. Oh, boy. He tries to rape a 10-year-old girl in her own living room at gunpoint. Whose mother was just killed in a car accident. Whose mother was killed in a car accident. She's already got enough trauma. Yeah. He has a hard time. He can't, you know, she's a little girl. Right.

So, to make it easier for him, he decides he should shoot her first. So, he shoots her in the forehead with the 22 rifle so close that she's got bad powder burns i mean point blank and then rapes oh my god no yes after she's killed after this poor little girl is is no longer alive okay that's when he decides that that's the time okay so when he's doing this that's when the girl's grandfather, here comes Henry. Right. He hears, you know, a gunshot and commotion. So he comes in the house and he went to he comes to the doorway.

And so Irwin turns the gun and shoots him, too. So he shoots down. Henry kills him. He takes Henry and drags Henry's body down into the kills him he takes henry and drags henry's body down into the bedroom away from the living room and stuff okay so shortly after that the henry's wife audrey marie kelly she's there um henry comes in to the house as well because she's heard all sorts of commotion and gunshots so he kills her to with a shot to the forehead as well okay they're coming in as as they come in he um you know he just shoots them he shoots her in the forehead and

then he rapes her as well what is happening he he's he's into apparently clearly yeah yeah he i don't know so he's so now this is, you know, a deceased grandmother. Right. That he's deciding that he needs to do this, too. So, you know, drags her back as well. Right. It's at this point that their son, David, the 36 year old and his two children show up at the house. OK.

David enters. He kills David first, obviously obviously because he's the threat and then there's his two kids uh five and seven years old daniel seven deanna or i'm sorry daniel's five deanna is seven he shoots both of them and then rapes deanna as well all the women all every female in the house he killed and he had his this i what happened i don't know i'm disturbed yeah obviously i'm sure no one out there right now is like uh you know right that's not a normal thing there's nothing fucking funny about this how does this is horrible from the day he had to this night that's the thing it's nobody understands he he went from his normal day everything's fine to to i don't know if no explanation i mean that i don't even know what

to say about this like what i can't put myself in the place of a person that a wants to go kill people for no reason i've had plenty of reason where i want to fuck her i'd love to to strangle that person, but I know I don't want to go to jail and shit. So I'm like, that's not good. And then they have a family and there's a whole morality thing to it where I got inside, you know, and it ends up falling apart there. There's a host of reasons not to do it. You never get past that part of you get put to the point where I would love that motherfucker to be dead, but that's as far as it goes because the rest of it's a huge inconvenience to not

only you, but everybody else yeah it's not great so i really can't put myself in the head of somebody who kills people who are nice to them yeah for no reason and then a i can't put myself in the mind of a rapist or a child molester or a molester rapist necrophilia as well there's so many things here that my i'm like a i'm like a circuit board where they put the shit in the wrong places and it's just not it's all crossed up and i don't even know i don't see how necropedio crosses pita you know what i mean mixed with all the i don't know i don't understand how they cross this is a new one fucking wild we've never had this before no this is well I mean, I hate this.

Fuck. It's disgusting and it's horrible. But I mean, Jesus Christ, this is 194 episodes. I didn't think we could be shocked by anything right now. This is shocking. And then I'm fucking shocked. So, well, he does that. Then he went next door, told his nephew, I just killed everybody.

You might want to call six. I just killed all six of them. He goes, you might want to call first. Call, I just killed everybody. You might want to call. Six? Yeah, I just killed all six of them. And he goes, you might want to call. First, call your mom. Tell her. She'll want to know. It's her house and everything. And then call your grandparents because they'll want to know, too, that I'm a murderer, obviously.

Didn't tell the 13-year-old what he did sexually. Thank fuck. Just murdered him. He didn't say. He just said shot them all. They're all dead. So, you know, might as well get them all cleaned up over there. Good Lord. I don't know what just said shot them all. They're all dead. So, you know, yeah, might as well get them all cleaned up over there.

Good Lord. I know what he was hoping to accomplish. Now, what I don't understand is my my theory. And I think kind of the prosecutor, one of his theories here. And it was what I thought immediately was he went into the house with the gun. I think I don't know if he was going to rob them or what his initial I don't know what his initial foray into the house was for because unless it was for nefarious purposes he wouldn't need the gun

he could have just went over and they would have went hey how you doing Erwin because they knew him and liked him so he was fine to just go over there so the gun means that he was going to do something that he knew they wouldn't like right away so I don't know if he saw the little girl in there something clicked because he the

first his first thing is to try to obviously attack this little girl sexually that's his first thing and when he can't i don't know if his brain being that he's pretty simple he just goes from well i can't probably be easier if she's dead so then he shoots her and then it goes from there and then when more people come in you got to just keep going as it goes kind of like uh richard speck where he said they just kept coming in they just kept coming home i didn't know what to do like more and more and more more and more and i couldn't keep control i don't know if maybe it was that type of situation where he was like i couldn't keep they kept coming and i just kept i don't know attacking i don't know i don't know, attacking. I don't know. Like I said, I can't put my mind there. But yeah, pretty much everybody who was possible were shot at point-blank range as well.

Jesus Christ. I guess she's trying to eliminate all the witnesses. I don't know. But yeah, everybody is dead here. Now, he comes back. Like I said, he brings the rifle back, tells his nephew it just killed the Kellys. And then they call Amos and Grace up. His mother, Grace, says, I'm sorry, when the son calls his mother at the bar, his mother,

Irwin's sister, she says, okay, I'm coming home. Like, I don't know what's going on, but I'll be there in there in a minute like you get a weird call from your 13 year old yeah uncle fucking erwin just shot everybody next door you'd be like what i'll be there in a minute i don't know what you're talking about next to you he's sitting right there though yeah all right okay like weird so um his father though told him that he didn't believe him basically the father he called the kid called called amos up and amos got on the phone with erwin and erwin was like yeah i did this and he's like no you didn't i don't believe you the fuck are you talking about you're making shit up again one of those things like you're whatever so you gotta get over there though right well no he left work he's a railroad railroad worker amos he's an older guy

too so this guy's been working the he's been working on the railroad all the live long day for about the last 40 fucking years now heard and seen some with nine kids right this guy is tired and he is probably rugged too had about enough of this shit he's had about enough of this shit and he said with nine kids yeah he has said he's that's where they got in lethal weapon that's where they got the line i'm getting too old for this shit that's where they got it from from a man named amos somebody who just stopped in this town on the way through and heard a man named amos say it as he turned to leave the tavern i'm getting too old for this shit and they were like oh danny glover's gonna rock So, yeah, he says that he didn't believe him, so he's coming to see for himself.

So Amos arrives at the home of the Kellys and opened the door to the Kelly residence and said that he was sickened by the sight and the scent of it right away because gunpowder and blood and there's a lot of blood, and it's not great. Blood smells. Blood smells, especially gunpowder with blood. That's weird. That's gross. and blood and yeah there's a lot of blood yeah and it's not great blood smells blood smells especially gunpowder with blood that's a weird that's gross so he said he returned home and told his wife to call an ambulance and the police right away and you know he didn't want to go in and mess up the crime scene basically and then he told his son go turn yourself in when the police get here

you better fucking go out there like a man and say hey i did this you know don't be a fucking asshole so instead of doing that uh erwin goes now i'm gonna go to the bar okay this is bull i don't want to fucking turn myself in that's boring it's a lot of work it's a lot of work i gotta go i gotta explain everything he goes i'm gonna go down to the rodeo bar that's the name of this place goes down to the rodeo bar across from the union pacific railroad tracks and he has a beer a murderer sat down at the bar sat right down at the bar oh boy a murderer with child blood on him sits right down at the bar just crack a beer oh boy you know and the bartender said that he you know must have shown up just after that because that's when he was when he saw him he said that uh quote i remember serving him just one beer and he left.

He didn't appear to be drunk or anything like that. He said that he's known Erwin for a long time. Quote, I've seen him around the bar lots of times. He's never been a troublemaker at all. The guy never even gets loud or anything like that. Yeah, he comes in all the time. Quiet guy, has a beer, leaves. He's got to have blood on him, right?

I would assume. He probably changed his shirt. I don't know. This seems like an area where there's probably blood on a lot of would assume i probably change his shirt i don't know this seems like an area where there's probably a lot on a lot of people yeah you know you probably come from the farm or something or the ranch you got blood on you somebody made dinner they've got blood that's what i mean there's a lot of blood in an area like this people don't question it why you have blood on your pants because i fucking working on my ranch pussy uh the better question is why don't you yeah what's up with you fucking lazy bitch

look at harvard boy here without blood on his pants that's what they call you if you don't have blood on your jeans currently harvard boy you had pizza delivered you pussy look at you oh pizza some fancy european food they're eating jesus christ pizza so he uh he then walks over what do you think he's gonna do he's got a beer in him he had to steal himself yeah he's going to another bar he's hopping he's going on a pub crawl he's fucking doing the the entire sutherland pub crawl which consists of the rodeo bar and the longhorn bar that's the pub crawl hilarious you know you know the Longhorn one was opened after because they were like they already got the good one

ah for shit some rodeo damn it fuck man that sounds cool sounds like we got a bull in there you don't even have to have one but it's people gonna think you do

when they're gonna come in you know what we'll name ours Longhorn they'll know we have a bull they'll know we got a bull but we ain't gonna have one ha ha ha that's right

you want a rodeo bull you gotta go down to the rodeo for that shit shit you think this is so he drank one more beer there okay casual That's right. You want a rodeo, Pope? You want a rodeo. You got to go down to the rodeo for that shit. Shit, you think this is. So he drank one more beer there. Okay. Casual, didn't slam, real casual.

No one said he acted weird or wasn't nervous or looking around or twitchy or he's just sitting around having a beer, watching the tube. Really thinking about it. Nah, just hanging out. Not even. They just look like any other time he's been in the bar. Just came in to have a beer and have a good night, everybody. He must have been on his way home, I guess. So he heads home.

And what he does is that nobody's gotten there yet because the way the timing worked out there, people are coming now. So what he does is he goes. There's a bunch of high weeds behind the two houses. He just went and hung out in there for the rest of the night. Just sat in the weeds. He just went and hung out in there for the rest of the night. Just sat in the weeds. He went and hid in the high weeds for the rest of the night. That's all. Just hid while the police and everybody, while the helicopter is above.

There's a fucking chopper from Denver hovering above. News 5 is above his head. News 5 is like, we're going to be doing this for John Elway in 10 years, so this better be important. You know what I mean? Like, this shit's important right crazy so that's what's going on and he's just hanging out in the weeds watching it all listen to it all they they set up fucking roadblocks i mean this is no messing around he's going nowhere he is just hanging out in the weeds not even

trying to flee not doing anything uh the first the person who identified the bodies was the mayor of the town that's how small of a town this is they literally called the mayor to id some of his citizens you imagine can you think about that yeah that's how tiny of a town this is this is like when the you know mayor came to investigate himself that one time and step on a kidney and shit that's what kind of what's happening here is our mayor i don't even know who it is yeah kate kate something oh gallegos that's right so you wouldn't have a fucking clue what i look like probably not i don't know her how would she oh that guy i've never seen him before in my life heard her goddamn voice at

the airport have no idea what she looks like either i couldn't save her either it's the other thing i would be like i couldn't identify our goddamn mayor who's that some lady i don't know she's got a nice dress like a female um your job from here appears to have decent jewelry she does well for herself obviously i'm not sure i don't know who she is though so the uh this is herb uh meisner he's the mayor of sutherland and uh david kelly the son the 36 year old son with the two small children he had worked at mezzaner the mayor meisner the mayor also owns a grain elevator and david had worked there before of course they all everybody knows each other in this town uh that is Shoop and Sons Inc. And Henry Kelly also works there part time.

So this guy knows the whole family and he's the mayor. He's got to go door to door and personally introduce himself. So real rolling shit. Yeah. He's also not used to horrible crime scenes. He's a mayor, not a police officer, not a homicide detective. This is a crime scene that even a like a regular police officer would have a hard time with this one this is like a you know you'd need like a 12-year homicide detective to be able to walk in here and not fucking lose a

shit he'd still feel it but he wouldn't lose it on something like this he'd pretend like it was fine but this is like when you see three dead kids right and also the way it would like that is wow i mean imagine taking that in that's too much if you're not a an officer especially so this guy if you're i mean if you're not experienced in that he said two kids that are raped james that's what i mean and shot oh fuck every the other one's dead everybody else is dead shot right in the fucking forehead and shit it's crazy and everybody hears a good shot It's crazy. And everybody here's a good shot, too. That's the other thing. He's a great shot.

Shooting people in the forehead from across the room because he's a fucking great shot. They shoot all the time. And that 22 long rifle is deadly. Those things are so straight. It's not a huge house either. So it's, you know, you're shooting someone from eight feet away right in the forehead. So the mayor said, quote, I think I may have gone into mild shock from what I saw at that house. Later, I went home and my wife and I put the kids to bed with us.

And then the phone call started. He said he was getting phone calls from New York City, from fucking San Francisco, from everywhere in the country. Major media outlets are Connie Chung is calling his house personally. It's a very weird thing to have Connie Chung call you. And Barbara Walters. Yeah, like very weird here. Three way phone call. I'm call you. And Barbara Walters. Yeah, like very weird here. On a three-way phone call. Hold on, sweetheart.

I'm having a three-way with Connie Chung and Barbara Walters. I'm going to need a minute, all right? Hold on. I'm almost finished. That Barbara's a real tough tug, but that Connie, I'll tell you. She's a sweetheart. Sweeter than she acts, I'm telling you. So the next person to arrive is June Lindstrom, and she's a licensed practical nurse.

So she's the one where they're going, go around and see if anybody's alive, basically. Go see if you can administer any medical care to anybody that might be breathing still. They sent her in to do this, this poor woman. She says she remembers it very, very vividly. She said that there was no way to help anybody she said david was actually alive when she arrived the son was alive when she arrived but there was nothing she could do they got him in the ambulance i think he died on the way to the hospital but he wasn't conscious he wasn't doing well but he was breathing and barely had a pulse and shit like that so she said quote i still work in the emergency room 10 years

later so i'm used to a lot but these people were close personal friends it's got to be brutal that's to find your friends like that it's bad enough if it's just clinical and they're strangers you look at them like whatever but friends and then you have to look at them medically that's she said that she found david lying on the floor in the doorway between the living room and kitchen. And the body of his son, Daniel, was draped over him. And Mrs. Kelly, the grandmother here, was crumpled up on the floor near the couch in the living room. And Deanne's body, the little girl, one of the little girls, the seven year old, I believe, body the little girl one of the little girls the seven year old I believe the youngest girl yes

was crouched up in a corner quote as if she'd been hiding and then the bodies of Florence and Henry were found in the rear bedroom those are the first two I guess his first instinct was to pile them up in the bedroom and then it just got too many I think so he didn't know what to do with himself and that's

wow so by 143 a.m. and then it just got too many. He thinks that he didn't know what to do with himself. And that's... Wow. So by 1.43 a.m., Associated Press is able to transmit a story with the names of the victims. The fact that Irwin is the guy they're looking for. He's a neighbor of the Kellys. This whole thing caused Sheriff Hopp to have a mild heart attack.

He had a slight heart attack from all the excitement. Ah, this is too much nothing has ever happened that's how little has happened in this town the first major thing the sheriff has a fucking heart attack because oh jesus christ the excitement i never thought which i mean this scene is awful but uh yeah they all they also reported that the murder weapon had been found and was already in police custody. This is not even 2 a.m. And they have like the whole story is out already. By 6.37 a.m.

It also stated that Simmons apparently told his father that he was responsible for the killings. That's in the press. Less than 12 hours later. It's pretty impressive. It's a lot. It's a lot to get out there. So the next morning at 8 a.m. He's still in the weeds by the way they never found him literally literally in the weeds he's walking home from the bar going i'm really in the week no pun intended like lincoln being bullet

proof it's the same thing so 8 a.m he runs up to his sister's back door and tries to get in the house and knocks on the door and his sister's like i'm not fucking letting you in here you've just killed everybody it's cold holy shit so his sister called the cops and said fucking my brother's right here he said i found him he's on my back door he's a fucking idiot and then he tells she tells him hey stupid the cops are coming wait here for them where are you going we're gonna live in the weeds for the rest of your life so he does the cops show up they take him into custody uh by 9 a.m he's booked and you know they take his clothes for evidence and all that sort of shit they give him the miranda warnings and you know by 9 a.m he's a 12 hours later he is mirandized he's so there

now uh he basically um they talked to him uh he says that they said uh did you do the murders and sexual assaults over there and he said no he's watching tv i'm just watching tv you know so i couldn't have done nothing you know tv on deadly tower was on yeah you know good movie it's good stuff right there so they talked to him a little more and then after a minute he goes all right fine i killed everybody just admits it he goes i killed everybody and they said well what else and then he graphically because it's a confession and they need him to graphically imagine taking that confession i don't i'm not gonna do any i'm not gonna graphically read off what he did yeah what we said earlier is plenty but you know we get it but he had to

he had to yeah they had to walk him through it minute by fucking minute imagine being that person sitting in the room while he explains matter-of-factly what he did yeah wow you've got to be holding and say the fucking gross stuff yeah and you have to be like and then so that happened there and you have to act like he's telling you about you know hooking his trailer up to his truck you have to act like it's no big deal because if you act like you're horrified he might shut down yeah so you have to act like yeah this is yeah okay this is info you're just taking down your info like anything else like taking your water at a restaurant it's a weird shit so um yeah he said that he he uh you know he killed he sexually assaulted florence and killed her and then killed the grandfather and he was trying to conceal the first two bodies.

I tried to bring him back in the bedroom so nobody would find him right away. He said, but then people just started coming in. Yeah. And he said, you know, he said he needed to kill everybody if he wanted to get out of there because they were in the living room. And that's the only way out. So he was like, how the hell is I supposed to get out? I couldn't just run away. I had to kill everybody before I ran away.

Oh, and then I had to obviously sexually assault everybody as well so later on the sheriff of mild heart attack or not he's still doing media interviews and everything else this is his moment to shine sheriff hop here so uh he said in this that uh um basically he gave a little little much information to the reporters he should have said no comment at this time. Instead they said it didn't surprise you when the woman called and said that the guy was in the backyard and he said it didn't surprise

me and they said why didn't it surprise you? And the sheriff said well a lot of times they return to the scene of the crime. So right away it's one of those. The reporter said you mean after he shot the people he went in and got a drink and at a bar and he said yes oh god damn it hop shut up this is bad and then the reporter said why did he kill these people and the sheriff said i can't say it this

time you can't say anything that's your answer for everything no comment god damn it you have a suspect he's in custody right that's all you let you know more later outside of that you're gonna fuck this case up nope but he's like look at me you picture him holding his gun belt look at me i'm 12 hours got it 12 miranda city folk fucking pussies that's not what they do back east over there in north plant that's back east to them right north black so he also admits during this whole thing uh during the interview that for seven or eight months leading up to the murders he'd been having fantasies of killing and raping young girls and older older women as well really yeah which are both things that your brain shouldn't do if you're

a 30 year old man never have either no offense to an older lady yeah but for a 30 year old man to have like rape fantasies about 80 year old women is not it's not normal yeah it's not normal even if they have a lot of money still not normal even if they're hot as shit it doesn't matter well that's impossible but i'm sorry 80 year old people aren't hot to a 30 year old to fuck they might be hot to another 80 year old but i don't know i'm sure there's some is there an 80 year old on earth that you want to fuck i don't know i haven't seen them all have you seen as if any of the ones caught your eye that you've seen i don't know dolly parton aside that's maybe it and even her and she's not 80 you know and you're 70s late 70s it would take a couple minutes you would be

i'd have to think of her when i was you'd be like just sing jolene just a couple of bars just you know what i mean like you know you would because it's older and it's no offense to her we'll all get there it hard we're all gross it's fine and we all get progressively grosser it's no big deal but i'm just saying for a 30 year old man sexual fantasies to involve an 80 year old woman is not yeah it's aberrant there's a reason that that that granny porn is low on the uh on the trend list low on the yeah low on the algorithm yeah it's not on the first page never recommended to you no it's usually very special it's usually the word teen is or barely legal it which one's grosser i don't know

it's pretty fucked i'm thinking about that i'm like i don't know which one grosser i don't know you know what i mean it's pretty fucked i'm thinking about that i'm like i don't know which one's worse i don't know why is one barely legal sounds like you're that's horrible it sounds like there's a cop right next to you being like i if it was fucking 15 minutes ago i'd have you in cuffs right now you bastard which is uncomfortable you know what i mean like jesus i shouldn be doing this. If it says teen or barely legal on the thing, I want nothing to do with that video. No, teen sounds like that could be 13. Yeah. That's teen.

I get 19 also exists, but. That's what it is. That's what it's supposed to be. That's the allure. That's the allure. 18 and 19. Or is she? Oh, yuck.

How is that an allure? No. How is that? That's not an allure? No. How is that that's not an allure? There's a girl named Lil Lupe who looks like she's 13, and that's the reason that they put her in it. That's terrible. Piper or something. She has braces and shit.

It's terrible, James. It's so bad. So bad. Why do you fuckers do this? And if it wasn't, one of of the top searches it wouldn't be on the home page so it's filthy fucks tugging to that shit a lot of them a lot james the number is astronomical it has to be it's terrible it's a home page amount of whacking that's a lot home page level that's too much that's too much yeah and then mother-in-law is next where it's like 50 and

60 okay i've seen like the for like those though they're like okay when they say teen she's like 27 when they say milf she's 29 and when they say mother-in-law she's 34 so let's be realistic with the porn you know what i'm saying? And then Granny is 44. Right. And then she's retired the next year. Yeah, the next year it's like, then she's in the back of the archive like, ooh. Meanwhile, it's just a normal, that's really the porn age. And the production date of teen to Granny are like six weeks apart. Six weeks apart. You never know.

You can go either way. it's six weeks apart you never know you can go either way i'm sure there's porn actresses that are in like teen videos and milf videos in the same fucking week i guarantee you they just put a different outfit on all right oh i put a like a button down shirt on look at me i'm a milf do her hair bigger yeah get the ponytail i'm in a business bod now i'm a milf before i was in like a tube top bouncing around bubbly now i'm a teen but it if dudes would fucking just stop it knock it the fuck off yeah please stop you didn't get it when you were a teenager because you were a fucking dork you're fine now just get chicks your age and yeah and i don't think he did well with the ladies this one but he did get married at a young age he found

somebody that would settle down with him it's more than i know people who are you know much older than that that still are looking for people so if you can find one by 22 with a 75 iq right 22 plus 75 is 97 and that's not bad that's not bad that's getting better i'm confident that that's what the the teenage shit is though it's just you were a fucking dork in high school and that's why you didn't get it and now you're 30 or 38 i'm sure that's it's gotta be what it is or you're just a pervert you're either a pervert or you're a dork or both and that's why you're a fucking pervert don't act on these knock it off yeah it's be a pervert with somebody your own age get off the home page you pervert yes get it off my fucking home page stop it i don't want to fucking log on and see the very first i guarantee you if i go on there right now it probably will be first video is

barely legal or teenager it's gotta be every time yeah like teen takes eight cocks right you know some sort of round robin gangbang teen she's so open gross fuck you she's so open that's what they say that sounds terrible jesus christ i know and for me as a 39 year old dude to get on a fucking for brunch that's a lot now open for open jesus as a 39 year old dude it's like i read that and then i go well i'm turned off thanks yeah that's one way to keep me from watching this shit oh okay that's a deterrent maybe that's what it is it's a deterrent maybe it's being planted by like there's no way that's by like the evangelical christians are like planting those videos yeah they're like this is gonna grow half the guys won't be able to whack it and half of them will come really fast but either way it's it's

gonna ruin everybody it's god's work so oh jesus i have to now talk about a funeral for six years for three children oh god after all that's disgusting so anyway no disrespect to the kelly family obviously obviously. Obviously. Nothing to do with the whacking them, please. So the high school auditorium is where they have the funeral because so many people want to attend. In a town of, at the time, 850 people, 1,000 people showed up. Wow. So that's a whole town plus some.

Plus some in North Flag. Fucking standing room over there. So it's, man. anyway uh it's crazy so they talk to some of these people and they say that you know people i don't know why but they said after that they were all locking their doors it's like once they caught him who else is there it's over he was by himself yeah nobody else but i guess they figure well if he did it who maybe someone else will and he someone here a guy named clyde lindstrom he uh says that he was talking to amos a short time after the shootings and he said i can't imagine it in a little town like this which is the slogan of small town murder yeah can't imagine it a little town like this good news is you don't

have to imagine it's already happened it's right there step inside that house right they stood outside apparently what the press was there as well and And Amos tearfully said, quote, my son killed five or six people here. So that was the press got a hold of that as well. Jesus, Amos, you don't know how many. Now, in the newspaper at this time, I found an article that cracked me up. Thank fuck something was, you know, odd and weird and funny. But on crime and sports, if you're a crime and sports listener, one of the segments we do at the end is i feel bad for all these people yeah so all the people this person is wronged over the course of the episode i feel bad for his mom and his wife who

he cheats on and beats up and this one and that one but not nearly as bad as i feel for and i'll go into five people with that athlete's exact name right who are you know, a CEO of a bank and a thing over here. Like, there's regular, you know, a guy who works on an assembly line. Successful or just not that guy. But they have to be that guy, unfortunately. And people must say something. Well, there's an actual name or an actual fucking newspaper article called Names Cause Problems. It's a UPI article, so it's a national article.

And it's a guy in Maxwell, a guy named Charles Edgar Simmons. Simmons, same spelling of Maxwell, is being confused with Erwin Charles Simmons of Sutherland, who's been charged with all these murders. What's his middle name? It's Charles Edgar Simmons is the one guy. And this guy is Erwin Charles Simmons. So people are fucking it all up poor bastard and initial reports uh listed the listed erwin as charles erwin uh stim and so then they thought oh well they must have just messed up the erwin it's edgar charles edgar so they're saying this guy did it so this guy is like being

harassed his family's being harassed and he he's like, it's not fucking me. I swear to fucking Christ. Because it's a small town. And that's not a normal. I've never seen that last name before. Yeah, it's a weird one. Yeah, it's strange. So his legal name, by the way, is Irwin.

The other one, the murderer is Irwin Charles. And this guy is Charles. Jesus, how ridiculous. Edgar. They're cousins, by the way. Get out. Yes. Oh, that's fucked.

They're cousins, and they both have Charles in their names because they're cousins and we're named after the same fucking person. God damn it. Jesus. Oh, God. The guy is, this one's married and has children. He's 34 years old. The other one's 30 years old.

So it's definitely not him, but it's similar. The other one's 30 years old, so it's definitely not him, but it's similar. So now pre-trial, the judge, because of all this publicity, he puts a gag order on the media. This is highly unusual. Basically, you can come in, but you can't report what you hear is what they say. So this is very, very odd. You can only come in and take notes and get your article ready, but don't you fucking say a word yet? You can't say anything about anything. It's very fucking weird here.

They the Nebraska Press Association sues the judge. It's a big deal. This goes all the way to the Supreme Court later on. So the deputy county attorney here, he said that he's got all pissed off because of all the articles all the information out there and some of it was true and some of it was false and it was hard to pick a jury in the jury pool yeah so he says this is great to the to a group of reporters this is the prosecutor quote god damn it i'm not going to try this case on the lawn of this house or in the goddamn media this is fucking amazing god damn it i love when a frustrated person starts a sentence out. God damn it. God damn it. I love when a frustrated person starts a sentence out with God damn it.

It's my favorite opener. God damn it, son of a bitch. You people are never going to fucking listen. And who is he? Is that the judge or the prosecutor? Who's the prosecutor? The prosecutor. Hilarious. Deputy county attorney.

Yeah. Marvin Holschner. God damn it. I'm not going to try this case on the lawn of this house or in the goddamn media. And then somebody shouted back to him. Somebody shouted back, you're making an ass out of yourself. Tell us what happened. Which is hilarious.

That's what one of the fucking reporters yelled back. Somebody shouted back, you're making an ass of yourself. You're making an ass of yourself. Which is amazing. No, you guys are making an ass of me god damn it god damn it and he says quote there's a tv helicopter overhead and we haven't even gotten the six bodies out yet so he's like it got out of control and they couldn't they didn't know how to this just never happened to them before so they didn't know like when you have a crime scene like this this is what you do they didn't know they're just like oh my god tell everyone lock their doors like they freaked out so the jury pool and this is important uh out of 130 citizens called 72 were

examined uh more than a third of those told the judge that they had already formed an opinion on the murders because they all had heard they all got the breaking news and everything else we were all watching the deadly tower the jury pool is all fucked out oh it's all fucked out it's a fucked out jury pool of that group less than half identified the media as their source though of their prejudice a larger portion of those who had an opinion did not specifically identify the basis uh for their prejudices some of them were friends with the Kellys or some of the other witnesses or also word of mouth around work. People told you shit. It's, you know, whatever. So, yeah, the gag orders here,

basically, they said that they didn't hear anything else later on. So what they heard at first is what the jurors said. That's what they believe now because nothing else came out. So the gag order, what it ended up doing was making false information spread it made it way worse it made

rumors spread rather than just going no no i read in the paper it said this rather than that it was i heard god damn it i heard he took one head off and another one and then switched them right and then had sex with he said what if i marriage ceremony yeah what if i had sex with grandpa with grandma's head on it that'd be fun right that's you know no so uh the jury here is sequestered as well once they get a jury they sequester them and uh they are told not to read and which shouldn't be a problem for most of them and to avoid broadcast news reports son of a bitch sorry that was mean i'm sorry uh ms mrs beulah lustrom who uh with her husband runs her husband john john and beulah uh there you go everybody name your kid beulah that hasn't been used in a while they run a 13 000 acre farm in brady and she was one of the jurors

and she said she knew most of the details of the sexual assaults knew about the father's statement about his son's guilt saw the sheriff on television yet she still thought she could be an impartial juror. Yeah. Yeah. She said, I've raised a family. I know you have to hear both sides. Jesus. I knew most of the details of the sexual assault.

I'm sure he's got his side. I heard he rapes children after he murders them i'll keep an open mind i'm gonna let him i'd like to hear what he has to say about that though i don't prejudge people good lord lady uh yeah she said when one child comes with a story i say well wait i have to hear the other side if there's a broken lamp it's not a shot raped fucking fourth grader what is not six bodies right six bodies and if there's a broken lamp it's not a shot raped fucking fourth grader what is not six bodies right six bodies and children there's fucking children what's his side there's a goddamn oh my god this is just ridiculous so uh another one what gotta hear the other side

eugene seaton another jury uh juror here works on the county road crew yeah and he runs his own small farm he believes in the wisdom of the judge's gag order he said yes uh it would be very hard to put anything i heard before the trial out of my mind i guess he was one of the people who didn't hear anything okay quiet out there on the road i guess holy shit but the things you did here it's tough to put that out of your mind gotta be tough there uh his wife heard about the murders though so he didn't but his wife did okay while watching the deadly tower on television. Swear to God.

She got the dog shit scared out of her. Oh, my, lock the door, Henry. And also knew something about the sexual aspects and Irwin's admission to his father. But he is sure that she never discussed it with me. I'm out, quote, I'm out of doors most of time and i don't have much time for talk okay your wife who just had the holy shit scared out i don't have much time i'm outdoors most of the time i ain't got enough she didn't shout from the porch get your fucking ass in here there's a psychopath on the loose quote i'm out of doors most all the time

don't have time for much talk out of doors out of doors most all the time. Don't have time for much talk. Out of doors. Out of doors. Juror Robert Gerard is a superintendent at the North Platte Gas Company, said he knew most of the details about the murders and sexual assaults. Quote, from hearsay and from some of the newspapers and radio. His wife remembers hearing all the gruesome facts of the murders the Wednesday after the crime when she went to the beauty parlor in North Platte. Yeah. And they all just talked about it. Quote. Two hours of free time. Wednesday after the crime when she went to the beauty parlor in North Black. Yeah. And they all just talked about it. She had two hours of free time.

Quote, my hairdresser's husband is a cousin of the Kelly's. Oh, no. And she told me about how the little girl had been raped and then killed. All the way around, but yes, and then Mr. Kelly had been dragged into the bedroom. The Simmons boys were a bunch of hoodlums. My son went to school with one and they were always beating up people. That's what she said. but she also says that she was also able to keep separate the

preconceived notions she literally said all that stuff i heard he raped a little girl and the whole family's hoodlums and his cousins beat people up and i think i can judge them fairly my hairdressers can of theirs and so that means i like them and they're pieces of shit so i hate them but i'll keep it i'm gonna be fair yeah what are we talking this is small town bullshit yeah in a city they just go have you ever heard of this person yeah then get the fuck out of here we got other people that haven't heard of him yeah take a fucking hike here they're like that good enough we'll take it so the next question is is he sane because what he did is you could look at that and go this is bizarre yeah you know this is odd not pushes some sane boundaries i would call this aberrant behavior like i said

before so uh defense psychiatrists said they believe that his iq was about a 75 has a drinking problem was under emotional stress ever since the birth the death of his infant daughter and therefore he was insane at the time okay now his infant daughter died either four or eight years earlier not sure which but either way that's a pretty big space between butchering a bunch of people and losing your kids so it's a broad window seems like a cool down period that you could probably overcome something like that so um yeah prosecution experts offered testimony that his actions were so complex that he had to know what he was doing. I don't see them as complex.

I see them as a mess. Yeah, I see this as a very erratic. It's a disorganized. There's organized and disorganized. This is definitely disorganized. He I mean, he is literally shooting and raping as it comes. Right. Like, you know, what's it called?

That's the word I'm looking for here? I'm lost. A catch-all of just, you know, never mind. It doesn't matter. Is it a criminal term? No, no, no. Just a general term.

I don't know what the hell I was reaching for there. Hodgepodge? No, it's gone now. Who the hell cares? It's gone. Point is, it's not necessarily...

We don't even know what he went there for. You know what I mean? That's what I mean. We don't even know how to get from A to B because we don't have an A. But we don't have an idea. We just got B. And there's no trigger. There's no like, he got mad and then did this.

He was just hanging out with his nephew and he was like, I'm going to go outside for a little while. Now's the time. Yeah. Just feel like doing it. That thought entered his mind. I think I'll kill a whole family. So 76 is the trial and

on the recommendation of the public defender he pleads innocent by reason of insanity so there's seven days of testimony here uh one of the days the first day he uh by the way the courtroom is packed most of the people there are high school civic students bust in from sutherland and a bunch of other they're bringing high school kids in to watch a real murder trial that's fucked up don't bring teenagers in to hear these details well I mean I guess I don't know that's a good way to get them right on the home page of Pornhub I guess so it's also a good way for them to go holy shit the world is messed up if you guess if you're a teenager growing up in Sutherland you don't even know this exists in the world maybe this is good for you I'm not sure how that works.

Is this part of school, though? Is this part of your curriculum? His Amos was there. He was wearing an overalls and a suit coat. You bet he was. But he wore a suit coat over the overalls. He's like, I don't have a suit. I got these overalls, but I found a sport coat, and I'm going to put it on over it.

Right. But you wear the suit coat to hide the overalls. That's the behind it just put on some britches sir i get it i mean i don't think he has any you don't think you think it's all overalls he's working the rail yard i think he's an overalls guy he's gonna lose his pants out there like the pinstripe ones like the like a conductor like you get a like you get a six month? Maybe. Maybe he's bagotting. I hope they are. I'm not positive, but I don't know. Maybe. So apparently a couple days into the trial, it comes out that Amos is going to be unable to testify

because he had a heart attack. Mild. He's not dead or anything, but he had a heart attack. So I think the whole thing's a lot for Amos. He's an older guy, and Amos crumples from it. Nine kids and a career in the rail yard that'll put some strain on your heart so the doctor determined that he can't testify now the sheriff here um in an answer to a question has there ever been any act of the

defendant in your presence which would indicate to you that he might have a mental problem he answered no because he's a mental health expert by the way uh on on cross-examination he admitted that he was not schooled in determining or looking into any of those things uh and doesn't know what anything would be a he doesn't know what indicators of a mental problem would be it gets i mean i didn't see him fucking a frog or nothing but basically yeah he didn't hit himself on the head while going, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm crazy. So I don't think he's crazy. But he did, you know, recoil and not talk to us at all for several hours, which is also an indicator, sir.

Well, he did say that he's observed a number of people and transporting them back and forth from Nebraska to the state institution. So based on that, he feels like he can get a pretty good judge of someone's competency legally. feels like he can get a pretty good judge of someone's competency legally right uh the sheriff testified that he knew the erwin pretty well because he had been in jail several times so he's like i've arrested him before so he clearly had a a bias toward him also the this is this is insane okay the sheriff is a witness number one so he's testifying as a witness in a trial when you have a witness a witness is sequestered witnesses aren't allowed to see other witnesses testify witnesses can see opening witnesses can see closing and then witnesses can come in as they are subpoenaed otherwise they are sequestered

outside they have to sit in the fucking hallway like if you go to a murder trial here the homicide detective sits in the hallway till it's his turn to testify then he has to leave again he doesn't know what the fuck happened in there ever because you if you hear other people's testimony you can then tailor your shit to them so they do that instead that plus it looks like you're official then and it's you have to be even with the other witnesses they let this sheriff stay there in uniform inside not in the back inside the bar of the courtroom there like he's the bailiff basically he's sitting there he basically has uh erwin in custody the whole time he came in handcuffed to erwin he sits next to erwin the whole time except when he's testifying against him and then he goes and sits back down again in his official capacity wow which is he

shouldn't be able to hear everybody's testimony he shouldn't be there doing that plus testifying that means that he's above other witnesses there's a million legal reasons why he shouldn't be doing this but what it comes down to is a conflict of interest that's what that is entirely but literally it's a small town and he's the sheriff so he's gonna keep an eye on that prisoner and that's how it Now, the jury is sequestered at the Howard Johnson Motel in North Platte. So they're going to live it up over there. You know it. Free HBO.

Oh, baby. Room service. The jurors occupied one wing of the motel that was closed and had two adjoining rooms that were used as recreation rooms. The jurors were fed in a dining room separated from the rest of the restaurant by a folding door partition. Okay. So, yeah. During this trial,

the trial judge will later say that he went to the motel on two occasions. What for? To see that the sequestration orders were being properly carried out. First visit was on January 8th, the first night they were sequestered, and the visit was on early in the evening of January 10th where he just made a visit to pop in and say hi on each occasion he checked the jurors accommodations and services and conferred with the hotel manager or the bailiffs with respect to the arrangements had no conversations with the jurors except for cursory acknowledgement or greeting or something okay he was at the motel for 10 to 20 minutes and uh that's how that went the sheriff fucking sheriff hop this guy here

testified he made three visits to the motel three you are a fucking witness and you can't go and a sheriff you're on the you can't do this you can't talk to them three times, three times. He went to the motel during the period. They were sequestered. First visit was on the 8th. We went there. That was the first night, January 8th. He went to the motel to deliver a suitcase to a juror who had left a suitcase at home.

So they had brought it as there. He doesn't have a deputy that can do this. He left. He left the suitcase with the bailiff and then went to the jurors private dining area and visited with the bailiff and four or five of the jurors at a nearby table for 15 minutes he fucking hung out with them was the prisoner handcuffed to him the whole time just handcuffs dangling off him he testified that his second visit to the motel was about 9 p.m. on a date somewhere in the middle of the trial, he said.

He went upstairs to the jurors' quarters in one of the jurors' recreation rooms. He testified that he saw and had conversations with several of the jurors while he was there, and he stayed for about an hour. He played cards, Jimmy. He sat down and played cards with these people. Are you fucking kidding me? He's entertaining them. Dude, you're the sheriff. That is so biased you

can't do that you're trying to get votes for next year you don't need bias for this case so it's an election year oh that's true you never know his third visit to the motel was on a thursday night in january uh same day which he testified as a rebuttal witness in the case he testified then went and saw the jury in the hotel that night holy shit he went upstairs to the jurors quarters in one of the recreation rooms there were four or five jurors in the room and the sheriff testifies that testified that he engaged in general conversation that lasted approximately 30 minutes dude you can't do this after the visit the sheriff went into the adjoining recreation

room where several other jurors were sitting. Some of the jurors were playing cards and invited the sheriff to join them. He did and played three games of blackjack for a period of about seven minutes. This guy has no idea what he's doing. That's what it is, is that he doesn't know. He doesn't fucking know. He's never had any experience in this. He has no fucking clue.

And he knows all these people. So he's like, hey, there's Bob over there. You guys want to hang out? It's fucking silly. So the closing arguments come around here and uh obviously there's all the evidence they play his confession in court which oh boy i wouldn't want to have to sit and listen to that shit that's heavy that's heavy shit so the uh the prosecutor here the guy who said god damn it at first he goes god it. That would be great if he opened his closing like that. God damn it.

Ladies and gentlemen, the fucking jury. It's great to see you. I've had it with this shit. God damn it. He says the interests of society demand the death penalty for Mr. Irwin Charles Simmons on six counts of first degree murder. He said it's also sexual assault. There's more stuff there.

Yeah. murder he said it's also sexual assault there's a more stuff there uh yeah he said that he murdered the family in cold blood and named them all off and their ages and um you know it's bad and then he said quote no set of facts could be more heinous atrocious cruel or manifest more depravity than was shown in this case hard to argue with that really is um the defense based its arguments on the unconstitutionality of nebraska's death penalty and on its plea that simmons is suffering from a severe psychotic episode and that it has history of mental instability uh well this is one thing the defense attorney says quote he's not normal the evidence here clearly supports that well yeah he's

not just he's just not the normal everyday functioning 30 year old man yeah but still he's a murderer right he's a very functional murderer he did 30 years without doing it no shit so the verdict comes in and it's basically not guilty by mental defect not guilty altogether or you're fucking guilty yeah that's the only options and they find him guilty of all everything the whole the whole shebang wrap it up wrap it up sentencing comes around and um yeah he doesn't really do himself money favors there doesn't have a big remorseful teary eyed thing so the he is sentenced you sir may fuck off death in the electric chair. Jesus.

Oh, boy. Yeah. That's a rough one. But I mean, you know, this is bad. Yeah. This is one of those. He knew it was coming. Yeah. This is one of those things where you're like, oh, Jesus.

What he did was like, oh, man. It's hard to argue the opposite for that guy. It's tough. And he admits it. And he definitely did it. And there's no mystery about it. It's like he almost just this is one of those where i don't like the pageantry of the death penalty i hate it i hate the fact that we're all gonna it's just weird it's creepy to me for us to

line somebody up and we're gonna stare well this is what we're gonna do to you because that's just weird we should just go in part is the cheerleaders outside that's what i mean if we're gonna have a death penalty have it be sometime in the next 10 years while you're sleeping someone's gonna come into your cell with a ball peen hammer and just open up the back of your fucking skull and that'll be the end it might be tomorrow while you're sleeping you never know when it's coming yeah no one can celebrate it or do anything else if that's how we're gonna do it then that's how we should do it i don't fucking know obviously it's a bad idea but it has to be better than what we're doing now which is a big like a almost a reality show it's a bad idea, but it has to be better than what we're doing now, which is a big, like almost a reality show.

It's almost like The Voice fucking kills a human. It's creepy. You got the golden buzzer. Hey, look at that. Look what's coming out of there. It's poison. So Simmons, wow. He said that after the trial, they asked if he had any resentment toward members of his family who testified against him.

And he said, quote, all they'd done was tell the truth. Okay, there you go. He believes he got a fair trial, and he thanked the jury for giving it to him, for listening, hearing him out, is what he said. Thanks, guys. Now, the gag order after this goes all the way to the Supreme Court, where the Supreme Court unanimously, which unanimously it's, you know, we'll do that Brown versus Board v. Education. And this is the only two fucking unanimous things I've ever heard of. So unanimously struck down a Nebraska court order preventing the press from reporting a confession. Another testimony heard in open court in a murder case.

So that's constitutionality. They find it unconstitutional and a violation of all sorts of shit there. So they basically said at that point it's a private trial and a trial is a public trial. It's the whole point of a fucking public trial. Right. That's what makes it public is the press. Otherwise, it's a closed room. It's not open to the not everyone can see it.

So only the people in the room see it. Then it's not open to the not everyone can see it so only the people in the room see it then it's private so anyway uh 1977 comes around october 12th nebraska's electric chair it gets repaired oh for the newly scheduled execution of him they schedule it the state supreme court sets a january 21st 1978 execution date holy shit and they get it all polished up they brought out the minwax and they're fucking they got that teak oil in it what's that yellow can that people spray on shit the wood shit the thompson's water seal is that no it's the old english oh yeah it's old english old english like the polish but not the booze the furniture polish so it smells terrible it's not good they smell about the same yeah they do actually yeah they're

very strong now nebraska's electric chair has not been used since the 1959 execution of charles starkweather wow starkweather was the last guy in there and that had been almost 20 years we threw some new rivets and bolts in it for this yeah i had to make sure it was grease up to put some wd-40 on the switch you know could oil change you never know uh who was one of 12 men executed by the state since 1920 all in the electric chair uh two men were on nebraska's death row in 1972 when the u.s supreme court struck down their earlier capital punishment law so then they ended up being commuted to life that was duane earl pope had been sentenced to die

for three murders during a 1965 bank robbery and thomas alvarez who was given the death sentence for the 1966 uh murder of a woman in lincoln named mary o'shea so both of them were commuted so nebraska's capital punishment law was passed in 1973 and it provides the death penalty for i love how it says provides yeah like it's we're gonna go ahead and accommodate like it's a favor like we provide continental breakfast and it provides the death penalty for premeditated murder or for killings in the course of sexual assault arson robbery kidnapping hijacking or burglary we just got accommodations for provides that's a i read that last night 4 o'clock in the morning.

I laughed at a 40-year-old newspaper from Nebraska just from that line. It provides. So 1978, he files an appeal. And Simmons does, obviously. There's nobody else who would file an appeal here. alleges that the lincoln county sheriff gordon hop glister or gilster was a principal and necessary witness for the state of nebraska in prosecuting the murder against him and that during the trial he visited the motel in which members of the jury and alternates were sequestered converse played cards and associated with members of the jury and alternates also alleges that the trial judge

provided over the trial visited the motel where they were sequestered and had communications with members of the jury. Ridiculous. None of it. Very avoidable. Yeah. Very avoidable. Are they bitching? No.

Well, then their accommodations are fine. Probably. They'll be all right. That's all. Send somebody. Send anybody to ask. Everybody okay in here? Okay, good.

good so the uh answer of the state uh sorry the alleged alleged that though the trial judge was present at the motel on two occasions he didn't discuss the case or attempt to do so the answer also alleges that although the sheriff was present in the motel three times he didn't discuss the case either so it's all fine it's not a matter of discussing the case it's a matter of how do we know that he was there there's too much opportunity either way you have you're endearing yourself to the jury and you're a witness so you're getting them to believe you more because you're becoming friends with them that's not the same advantage that guy has you can't do that so um yeah uh so old sheriff hop from the 79 appeal they uh they judged the judge's judge that he met improperly with jurors while at the trial, while it was in session. And bailiff Eugene Larson said in an affidavit that, quote, as a matter of course, Gilster would go to the jurors' motel or he would play cards with them.

He said it was even more times than what he had originally said. So the Nebraska Supreme Court on April 3rd, 1979, orders a new trial for him, vacates the sentence and the conviction. All gone. And his contact with jurors during the trial, they said, posed a problem of constitutional dimensions. That's the way they put it. They feared that his conduct was intended to persuade jurors that he was conscientious and that he was trying to convince them of his credibility as a witness obviously just by being a stand-up guy just want to check on all your accommodations good man is the defendant over here checking to make sure you guys got enough to eat tonight no uh he testified twice said that he was mentally competent said uh you know erwin was mentally competent and uh yeah these unwarranted contacts with the jurors have been

the quote critical factor in determining the one key issue which was determinative of the defendant's guilt or innocence so um not good they uh he doesn't they so yeah he's gonna have to they're gonna have to do a resentencing and all that kind of shit here retrial right retrial yeah so a fair trial they finally say a fair trial before a fair and impartial jury is a basic requirement of constitutional due process to condone the conduct of sheriff gilster in this case would violate the fundamental integrity of all that is embraced in the constitutional concept of a fair trial by a fair and impartial jury yeah you fucked it up from fucking square one you idiot we can't roll on two with the way this is done no so new trial

comes around they said no question we're going to retry him as soon as humanly fucking possible we're not going to let him go so new trial um now during the trial pretty much the same evidence gets in during the trial though there's multiple offers from the defense for a settlement oh let's just because i mean they got the electric chair on the first try so they're like let's do a plea let's just get one for life what do you say and the lawyer said just trying to save my client's life here just trying to get him out of the chair he knows he's going to get convicted so uh he says there uh that he offered to enter a plea of guilty to second degree murder but the offer was rejected by the prosecutor no second degree murder would have carried

life imprisonment not enough okay that's life imprisonment though think about remember that often yeah but life with fucking possibility it's life with possibility fuck that okay so helvey said that the private plea bargain uh private plea bargaining offer was made several times to the chief prosecutor quote our goal was to avoid the death penalty on several occasions we offered the prosecution pleas of guilty to six counts of second degree murder and three counts of sexual assault he said that the last defense offer was made on uh the monday right before jury deliberations and uh you know he said uh quote they uh the prosecution did not want to negotiate any plea okay so the jury deliberates here and uh they asked the judge

a question you know they'll come out and ask ask things they'll have a note for the judge they asked if special knowledge quote unquote could be used during the deliberations particularly if it involved knowledge of psychological testing techniques in other words one of our juror no psychological shit can we ask him about that so the the jurors also asked that their memories of psychological testing dates that Simmons had been examined be refreshed, and the judge said no to both of those. So wouldn't give them that, wouldn't give them the dates. So they said they did not consider the one guy on the jury,

the foreman, Lee is his last name. He did not consider his master's degree in psychology noting that it was it felt it was just uh it was felt some information possessed by some of the jurors might possibly be of use in terms of evidence presented by the expert witness so they deliberate for a while they come back uh with a verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity okay uh yeah that's fucked up yeah could have had life in prison that's fucked and they said no we're gonna do this and then not guilty by reason of insanity so now that means he will be held in a mental institution quote till he's not a threat anymore oh my so hey we'll find out when he got from death to the fucking mental hospital.

Jesus. So, yeah, the jurors, they said beyond a reasonable doubt was the key element here. They said that, quote, it was impossible for us to convince or to conceive that the evidence showed beyond a reasonable doubt that this man was sane. Well, he committed the acts that were part of our instructions he said that they deliberated uh they talked about at first a majority favored guilty and the jury convinced itself they had a real 12 angry men moment in there where they fucking all were fighting yeah with a smarty pants that's done some fucking psychological stuff yeah they said They said Monday afternoon, the sentiment of the majority of jurors

was originally for a verdict other than the one they finally reached. But the majority were in favor of a different verdict. But then they said they, quote, we just decided that it was our obligation to reach a verdict and we were just going to stay there until we did. None of us wanted to stay there a week or several weeks,

but we decided to go on. And then finally, on the wednesday they said we were all absolutely so convinced that he had committed such a variety of bizarre acts that it was difficult for us to get past that it was a stumbling block the major stumbling block so the one juror though came out and said that there was bullying and jurors were fighting and bullying each other and it was a matter of like a this one had a more personality he went down the vote counts he was like on monday uh the vote was taken and it came up five for insanity seven for guilty of first degree murder then the second vote was taken on tuesday six for insanity two for uh one count of first degree murder five and five counts of second degree

murder and they were parsing all this shit out right it's weird as fuck third ballot had different results uh 10 votes for insanity one vote for guilt of first degree murder on all six counts and one vote uh which was you know the other one was like some some second some first all that shit so finally uh on the fourth ballot they they uh they unanimously voted not guilty by reason of insanity uh the judge is pissed off at it oh yeah the judge said the quote the defendant is guilty insane as he told the the press afterwards oh you can't do that so weird so fucking is that legal it's not it's not that's questionable right it's definitely on yeah it's on the borderline i would say boy he said that the jury shirked from their responsibility.

Quote, the jury didn't decide the case according to the evidence presented, and they didn't follow the law. Jesus Christ. They're a bunch of fucking people. You stuck in a Howard Johnson's for two weeks. What do you want from them? Maybe this isn't what they do. Right. Maybe you should have pressured the prosecutor to accept that plea.

Yeah. Did you hear what the things that they were doing? They're not fucking legal you know, legal scholars. They don't fucking know. That's what presented in front of you. And every lawyer will tell you in your courtroom better. I don't know. Negotiate it out of court because you don't want to leave all your hard work in the hands

of 12 dummies. Yeah. That's what they say all the time. Right. And you got to do it on there. That's that's no. You got a master's in psychology. You got to knock the champ out.

That's the rule in boxing you're not going to win by a decision you got to really kill himself give him hell fuck how long will he be in the loony bin well that will be decided by the state's mental health commitment act is what it goes up for so basically you have to make once a year he's up for review oh that's fucked once a year he's up for review and uh he'll be in the care of the director of medical services uh there they're going to decide where to put him exactly and uh the verdict and verdict engenders a charge of whether the person is mentally ill and dangerous to himself or others so basically when they say not dangerous to himself or others he's supposed to be set free

at that point but a judge has to decide that he's sane also it's not just psychiatrists say he's fine and they let him out the door yeah then it has to be as once a year review is with a judge has to decide that he's sane also. It's not just psychiatrists say he's fine and then they let him out the door. Then it has to be his once a year review is with a judge. Okay. So Sheriff Hopp said he's, quote, heart sick over the outcome of this. Well, it's your fault, you fucking idiot. Yeah, dummy. It's probably because you're an idiot.

Yeah, that's why. It was all wrapped up. Yeah, but he said, quote, heart sick. He's been a sheriff's department officer for 25 years. 17 of those he's been the sheriff. And yeah, he just said he's never felt sicker about anything. Just feels awful. Sounds like you got a bad heart.

Yeah, no shit. So what are the old jurors? The old jurors are like, what the fuck did you guys do? They talked to the 76 jurors. They were like, huh? What the fuck is wrong with you people? Yeah, they talked to the 76 jurors they were like huh what is wrong with you people uh yeah they talked about it they said quote for my review of it i don't agree but i'm not able to comment on the evidence they had because he doesn't know what they had we don't know what exactly was presented to them it's a bunch of people a bunch of the old jurors quote my heart

just sunk i just can't believe it it isn't right he wasn't insane it's a shame all this money had to be spent there's no doubt in my mind he knew what he was doing i'm afraid a couple of years from now he'll be let loose and it may happen again i feel what we did was right and then just three years later to have it changed another person it's unbelievable it sure was a lot of work for nothing and well people are pissed yeah they're mainly pissed that they went and did that and then it got turned away thrown out yeah so that was a big beans with the sheriff yeah fucking assholes so i'm saying yeah there you go so uh erwin's dad too comes out here amos old amos here he says since uh this whole thing has happened uh erwin's mom has died definitely he says it was definitely from the stress of another thing one of his children has

died so one of their nine children has died here and he said to have this over with the acquittal by reason of insanity he said quote takes quite a load off my mind he says maybe i'll get to feeling better now jesus christ been fucked up for years he's had a hard time here so um yeah it's it's rough he said that uh had to be something wrong but i don't know what nobody in his right mind would pull something like that when they asked him does he think his son's saying he's like i mean i saw that shit it didn't look sane to me which you know yeah he saw he said he's only seen his son once since the first trial when he traveled to the complex in lincoln for a visit because it's three and a half hours away he said they don't correspond by you know mail or

anything like that there's little contact between anything there and he said that amos has said the situation's put a lot of pressure on him and um he didn't even attend the second trial because his doctor wouldn't allow it his health was bad and it was a lot of stress for him because he had a heart attack the first time so they said why don't you chill out they asked about his wife who died and amos said quote she was worried a lot about it they kept hollering about it on tv and on the radio every time she heard about it she'd ball i think a lot of it uh a lot of it was caused by that her health problems and she said that amos said the medical and burial expenses just broke me so he's like broke and sick and

his wife died and it's yeah it's bad he said that people around town don't treat him any differently though he said uh they all treat me just fine to your face yeah he must have been a terrible father my other eight kids haven't killed anybody jesus christ he said there's no sentiment against anyone in the family anyone and this is a neighbor no sentiment against the family everybody in town likes old amos it's no reflection on him so the town folk though are fucking heads exploding exploding people are so mad holy shit we hope the jury can live with themselves the kellys were people who didn't bother anybody their whole life these people we saw on the street all the time and now this happened

to think it could happen to your daughter and our people are losing their fucking minds about this shit i mean all over the paper here the uh prosecutor is pissed too um he said quote if i had thought he was insane at the time i wouldn't have filed first degree murder charges as the press asked him do you agree with the jury's do you agree with your loss no i don't how do you feel yeah they said um will he ever get out of an institution and the uh the chairman of the lincoln county mental health board said i didn't anticipate anything like this this isn't the ordinary case we have a lot we have not had a case of this nature so we will have to study the process again they're just whatever an ordinary case we determine if someone is mentally ill a dangerous person and then we determine if he is uh then he's committed he said with this though

this guy he could see him sane but what if he snaps and kills the whole family again it's a different story he didn't just go and you know like jump out in front of a car bang his head against the wall he was doing fine i mean little little brushes with the law and stuff and then all of a sudden the whole family's dead yeah Yeah. Who knows what this fucking guy's capable of? Anything. The defense attorney said that it's the biggest relief of my life to get this case out of my office. He said, quote, it wreaked havoc on my total life, my family, my emotional well-being. There was a tremendous pressure from all sides.

He was appointed, but he was a private attorney, got appointed by the judge to defend him the first time. Then he joined the public defender's office the next year and was appointed to defend him the second time by the office. He's like, fuck, I can't get away from this. He literally said in this, if I knew there'd be a second trial, I wouldn't have taken the job with the public defender's office. I would have had there been a chance I would have taken it. The juror, Douglas Scott Lee, who was the psychological guy, he has to move, he said. He said he had to move his family out of Hickman, Nebraska

and was buying a gun because of threatening phone calls and people bothering him. He said the calls start coming in on Thursday and I was worried about the safety of my family. I'm sick inside about it. He is the managing editor of the Voice of Southern Lancaster County newspaper. And, yeah, so people knew who he was. So, haven't you got a master's and you think you're smarter than everybody?

No shit. You come in here and ruin a just open and closed case. He's a goddamn jury. Heard what he heard. Everyone else agreed. So, changes. The governor of Nebraska at that time said that he thinks there's merit to change Nebraska's law to allow a guilty but mentally ill verdict. So that way, when they got out of an institution, then they could be put in a prison rather than on the street.

There's no in between at that point. So this is like, oh, now you're saying enough for prison. That's that would be that type of thing. That's what they want done. That's what they want done to him. That's what they want done to him. Hey, look at you. So 1989 comes around. The problem with that law is that there's no merit in getting better.

You know what I mean? Congratulations. Now step over here. Yeah, that's what I mean. Might as well just stay crazy. It's better. It's better for you. Absolutely.

So 1989, he wants supervised visits. He wants treatment outside of the center for alcoholism and for mental issues and shit like that. So the judge says no for now, but they're going to consider it for next year. 1990, he wants more supervised visits, and they end up doing it. They let him go for supervised visits to doctors and shit not like to the chuckie cheese or anything just to the to the doctor uh so the one psychiatrist they say about him quote dr anderson said he's gonna do it again if he gets out he'll isolate himself he'll drink again and he'll do it again it's very scary what's going

to happen if they ever let him out of jail out out of the what is it now out of the hospital. I had heard a lot of rumors that he was going to be turned loose this year. I feel and then he says Simmons says, quote, I feel that I deserve a chance. I've changed. I don't feel that I'm any danger because I've changed and I care. Oh, my. You have to know as a person what I did is not going to be accepted ever so um 2003 he is allowed supervised time away from the center so that ends up happening 2004 he's still in there

um you know still not being letting out 2005 he is formerly formerly diagnosed by dr jack anderson with uh schizophrenia pedophilia and necrophilia okay those are three very very it's a that's a bad cocktail that my friend is a is a hat trick that's a that's a hat trick right schizophrenia pedophilia and necrophilia whoa that's wild that's the trifecta of stay the fuck out of society that's yeah the doctor said that he will always suffer from these disorders and uh yeah he uh at the time now he's 59 years old then they said he's been an exemplary prisoner doesn't bother anybody which he never did on the outside besides butchering a family he was fine he never bothered anybody you know what he did he did it at 30 he's almost to the

second 30 yeah one doctor said in the to let him out for supervised visits. This was the judge. I'm sorry. He said, quote, so long as he keeps away from alcohol and non-prescribed controlled substances, his mental illness will in all probability remain in remission and his dangerousness to the community will be minimized. I don't want minimized. He killed children.

Remission? Badly. I want it fixed. Yeah. They said that if he does get out, he would most likely seek seclusion, start drinking again, and the delusions and fantasies would return. One judge said there would be a very high risk of the defendant again being involved in a violent sexual activity. Yes, I would agree. So 2013, he's still trying to get out. One judge said the court's not inclined to gamble with the safety of the public, particularly as it relates to young girls and older women who would be defenseless targets if he were to violently reoffend.

Right. Very fair. Exactly. That's perfect. 2017, he is still ruled mentally ill by a judge. 2019 comes up. Yeah. They say he's up.

He wants out. There's a psychiatrist that says he's all better. He hasn't shown a fucking sign of craziness in 30 years. He's doing fine. And a judge says, I don't think so. Not yet. We're going to keep you in there. That's 2019 in October.

So he is up this month. This is going on again. Who knows? They said that he's dangerous. 2019, Nebraska, the what is it? The University of Nebraska at Kearney, their journalism department holds a big event to celebrate the landmark decision of the Supreme Court saying that you can't have a gag order for journalists because they were one of the people that sued so they have a big party about that there was a petition for a while on quote the petition site.com that's stupid yeah uh they were trying to get a thousand people they only got 10 supporters and it's to keep him in jail but it's also i was like oh that's a good thing but it's also

because they want to make a documentary so i'm like i don't do that and says now 40 years later he's been declared cured by psychiatrists and they're calling it an alcohol-infused psychosis blah blah blah he is a threat to my kids and grandkids as well as your kids and our grandkids as well as all adults very good writing please pass this posting to your friends family and business associates i really need your help to get sponsors and advocates to help me make this film thank you very much that everybody fuck you exactly oh that is sutherland nebraska you can't tell me you can't shake a stick at that shit that was absolutely one of the craziest

fucking stories we've ever done wow ugly as donald's face oh boy i'm telling you well if you like that story or if you just appreciate our telling of it for a better way to put it uh please get on apple podcast give us five stars they really do help a lot they help drive us up the charts so thank you for doing that head over to shut up and give me murder.com for everything crime and sports and small town murder related you should also listen to psa hate this movie as well or make fun of bad romantic comedies you want to go to the website though shut up and give me murder.com right now because you want to get your tickets to the virtual live show right october the 29th it's a thursday and also it'll be available for 48 hours after that you can listen and it

will be or you can watch sorry it will be the all violent felon edition of the prisoner dating game where four lucky bachelorettes and four lucky bachelors get lined up before Jimmy all of them are imprisoned for terrible crimes and make sure they do it and then I I read Jimmy the descriptions that these people put up you know know, this is their bait. They're selling their schmackle. Yep. And we will show you the pictures, but Jimmy will not be able to see these people until he picks one of each. One lucky bachelor, one lucky bachelorette.

And then we will show him the pictures. And more importantly, we will tell everybody what everybody did to belong on this show. So much fun. Shut up and give me murder.com right now. I'm telling you, it's a riot. That show is crazy. So please check it out, especially when you find out what they did after you hear, oh, that guy sounds really nice.

They really, James, they have more confidence than anybody on dating sites. They have to. They have to have game in there. Yeah. And these guys on fucking Tinder got jobs. And that's why they don't have to be as they don't have to be as flowery because they have a goddamn job in a car and a fucking, you know, they are like free. Right.

That's the difference in there. You really got to draw someone in like a spider to the web, you know. So, yeah, do all of that. By the way, you want to follow us on social media. That's easy to do. We are at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on we are at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook and at small town murder on instagram and if you want to be a patreon donor oh you're going to get something for your money let me tell you uh anybody over the five dollar level first of

all jimmy will mispronounce your name just like he's going to do to a slew of people here in just a few moments not only that but you will get access to all of the wonderful bonus material including the crime and sports bonus material which is rarely about sports so you'll want to listen to that too uh this week small town murder bonus that we did it came out a couple days ago if you get on patreon you can hear it right now it is the uh three women in milwaukee who decided so not small town but it was crazy enough anyway who decided they wanted to resurrect jack the ripper yeah based on one of their beliefs that she was jack the ripper's mother in a former life right and one of them also wants to resurrect hitler for some

reason as well i get it anyway they i don't anyway does. He doesn't mean he gets wanting to resurrect Hitler, by the way. Ladies and gentlemen, my co-host, Andrew Jackson or Hitler, my my co-host Himmler, Heinrich Himmler. So anyway, yeah, it's where the hell was I? Patreon. So, yeah, it's so much fun. The episodes are crazy. We did team songs on crime and sports so there's like hulk hogan singing lenny dykstra rapping yeah oral hersheiser rapping you learn

that they've got one talent yeah and it's not music so do all of that check all that out new episodes out next week uh all of that can be had at patreon.com slash crime in sports anybody over the five dollar level has access to all that beautiful beautiful stuff and if you just want jimmy to mispronounce your name and get some good karma for yourself you can do that by making a donation over at paypal using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com that said jimmy after all that horrible story i need i need to hear about some good people who would never do any of the things that just happened right now. Instead, they're so nice.

They support us and make us be able to make a living doing a podcast. So, Jimmy, hit me with the names of those wonderful people right now. This week's executive producers are Shelley Frels, Ellie Kamak. She's in Texas. She's terrific. Kristen Anderson, Lisa Neuberger, Allie Shirley, Gwen Steele, Leif Steinmetz, Lizzie Wolfe, Ashley Bowen-Baraclava, Nicole Blair, Jesse Plotkin, Carol Braun is back. Thank you, Carol.

Thank you, Carol. Amanda Berry, thank you very much. She just quit her job and donated. What did she donate? It was like, oh, her leftover PTO she donated. Wow, thank you so much. She just quit her job and donated. What did she donate? It was like, oh, her leftover PTO she donated. Wow, thank you so much. So sweet. Thank you, Amanda.

Joanne Ahern, Alex Etch, Chrissy Ann Costaldi, obviously. Christine Warner and Jordan Bennett. Thank you guys so much. Those are some of our favorites there. Thank you, guys. And in those was a bunch of words about about how they wanted to help uh how sick i was and oh well you guys are sweet truly from the bottom of my heart thank you guys thanks for thinking of us uh taylor uh other producers this week are taylor halfpenny sarah

dugan or duggan uh amanda free tag rowan with no last name dale lewis uh galia what is that got oh boy hornado jesus i think it might be Gala. All right. I do really terribly with writing. Jack Tufford. Chris Caton or Caton. Amanda with no last name. Michael Von Tomaszewski.

Chris with no last name. Sarah Chee or Chai. Caitlin Franklin. Vivian Goroski. Dan what the Viglietti. Yeah, Viglietti. Dan what the? It's italian name ashley exactly ashley murworth uh joe would know last name britney poxon uh shy or she miller i think it's shy

uh allison new newbold yes megan would know last name kyle williams deborah would know last name dana reed kevin schrader amy sprinklerader. Amy Sprinkle. Alex Sinzabaugh. Sinzabaugh. That's a cool name. Heather Elbert. It's like a wine, right? No. What is that?

Sounds cool. I don't know what that is. Either way, it's a neat name. Madeline Greenfield. Jason Covert. Sam Schurer. Bubble Sprite. Kyle Juarez.

Ruben Tirado. Jess Anderson. Donnie Richardson. Owen. Is that Owen? Olwen, Olwen Searles, Ollie would know the last name. It might be Allie. I don't know.

Allie, Olivia Crutcher, Monica D'Ossi, Micah Shai, Taj Alise, Aliji. I don't know if I wrote a J or an S. Look at this. Is that an S or a J? Because they could be different, could be the same. You don't know. That wrote a J or an S. Look at this. Is that an S or a J? Because they could be different, could be the same. You don't know. That's how bad it is. Well, thank you. Josalia Adams, Connor Smith, Victoria Lauren, Ralph Haas, Michelle Warriner, Sarah Rachel,

Matt Scarborough, Catherine Ziegler, Amanda Teague, Chris Launer, Taylor Swanson, Jenna Bradley, Julia Schuster, Sean Fury, Christy Hilton, Lindsay Files, Jared McCluskey, Sean Sinclair, Daniel Trupp, Wendy Gonzalez, Valerie Valry, Young Yankins, Kevin Bartlett, Carla L. Beth Shockey, Melissa McCutcheon, Jerome Becker, Lauren Bradford, Cameron Cleary, Chris Adams, Nicole Chris Adams, like the gentleman, right? Yes, like the gentleman Chris Adams. Nicole with no last name, Cole Mellon mckenna mattel tylen uh what is this ellsworth sean turner joe faden faden sean uh delori hayley or hallie god damn it catherine osario uh sarah ratcliffe versailles or vasal what the fuck santa radcliffe nope that's hannah that's santa yeah it's probably hannah more Hannah more than Santa. More than likely. Kelsey V. There's some poor Santa sitting out there going, thanks a lot.

I guess I don't exist. Carly Kradjevic. No, I think. Vicky Serrano. Joe Galapo. Galapo? What is that, James? Italian.

Yeah. Fucking wrong is what it is. Jennifer Taylor. Olivia McQueen. Richard Berman. Probably Boomer's brother. Jesse henske uh stevie james zane brown glenda pippenich uh april whitner stevie james is that the steve james the director of stevie probably awesome damn it april whitner uh cecilia, that's Celia, Bolin, Christina Durant, Nicola Mastrantonio, Macy Scalopini, it's Italian, god damn it, Scalopini.

Just call him Scalopini and get it over with, you know you want to. I'm sorry, Macy. Annie Blandy, Shaya Prince, Stephanie Akers. It's a fucking mess. James Warner, Mike Carpenter, Martin Colbert, Corbett, Nicole Aquari, Michael McCombs, Mike McCombs, Flatchella Lee Roth. That's easy because it's not real. Carol Goley, Valerie Siprit. God damn it.

Joanne, Johanna Mullen, Isaiah McAlexander, Carissa Kreft, Christopher Brown, Chris Keys, Brandy Lee, Kenzie Brown, Selena Guerra, Christy Stutz, Jericho Von Brugger, TheJezebel567, see how hard this shit is? Phil Snodgrass, Anna Jenke, I think, Guz Z, Kimmy Parks, Greg Hill, Chad Percy, Ryan Swift,

Hannah B, Mitchell Barros, Janice Melchiori, God damn it, Suzanne Wager, Katie Fahey, Travis Bender, Jennifer Johnson, Mark Schaefer, Joshua McNamee, Jay Henry, Tiffany Ehrlich, Ellie Gonzalez, Stephanie Phelps, Alexis Todes, Chris with no last name. Audrey Ingersoll. David Vineyard. Vineyard. Yep. Mr.

What is this? Rin 213. Sure. Mindy Swigert. Lurkey McLurkison. Lurkerson. All right. Sasha Saunderson.

Saunders. God damn it. Leslie Valerio. Rangers JT. Jamie Keck, Tituba. Patrick Murphy, DJ. Amanda Kesner. Caitlin with no last name.

E-Rock. Tremaine Lasley. Jenny with no last name. Adam Beaton. Stephanie with no last name. Joel with no last name. Danielle Sheeter. Lona.

Iona. Iona Singh. Olin Miller. Justin Hoffman. sam metz and what is this anti hollow painting no it's never happening sean corbin addle hansen emma ratcliffe chuck brooks jane parks emmy shilper shilper worked ness sims lindsey keeler jerilyn munson boris kerbannon uh lauren brennan ken kent sipanuski god damn it elaine fruit frudiger luke sheedy eric eric schiller shy bam blocker taylor collins megan uh as bill uh john angle justin may samantha lippert lippert uh robbie Megan Asbill, John Engel, Justin May, Samantha Leipert, Robbie Luna, Grayson Bancroft, Matt Smith, Alfred Hitchpenis. Got it?

Because cock is fucking a dirty word. Catherine Fromm, Dana Kizala, Megan Cox, Carrie Baker, Carolyn Dunn lori sharp scarpa because it's italian of course same sam lori thomas alana krinnert kriner i don't know dennis uh avalas uh chris reber and his wife uh it's their anniversary sarah happy anniversary megan lynch chowning uh chat what that can't be right gerald l uh nope that's an n let's hope so steve chanel thanks steve uh matthew uh adorno because it's italian jason ab ammerman god damn it caitlin stupec judd jude kendall elizabeth burko dick minge uh brendan ables dakota harrington ashley veo suzanna platt isa kefifina, Janice Kraft, Casey Shatters. Happy birthday, Adam Graham.

And also, it was Susan Olgis' birthday. And nobody told us to tell her happy birthday. But happy birthday anyway. You're terrific. Hell yeah. Gerald N., Matthew Adorno. I said that. Thomas Smith, Jill Calhoun, Michael Calhoun also.

John DeLong, Peyton Meadows, Julia Usher, what? Usher, Murray. Heath Mauger, Amanda Knight, Charles Stump, James Marder, of course, Burton Heiss, what is that? I think it's an I. Linda Timer, Lindsay Trotter, happy birthday to Sarah Flumeria, what? That's not right. Sarah Flumeria? Yeah. Sounds like a good one.

And Kathy Jackson. Those are from Susan. What the fuck? Susan's birthday. Hey, happy. She's telling people happy. flumeria what that's not right sarah flumeria yeah and sounds like a good one and kathy jackson those are from susan what the fuck susan's birthday hey she's telling people happy birthday flumeria ridiculous unbelievable julia mccauley and read it next i don't know what that is i wrote that down it's something tatiana whoop titanova titanova berez hawawa i don't know her name's got tid in it and that's gonna ruin everything ruin everything. It's going to distract you a lot, I feel like. Richard and Hope Radarmer. It's their anniversary. Sebastian Martin.

Kyle Juarez. What is this? Maureen Jones. Zachary Kipfer. Stephen Stadler. Krista Walker. John and Mary Catherine Buck. Katarzyna Niedzolka.

I found out the I is pronounced like a w uh frank crowley aaron baker and janice hill and of course all of our patron donors you guys are amazing thank you thank you everybody so much honestly from the bottom of our hearts man you guys just everything you've done for us everybody every dime you give us every retweet or every like or every time you tell a friend it really really, really fucking helps. I know it seems like insignificant to tell your friend or to donate a dollar or whatever the hell you want to do, but it's not to us.

And it means the world to us that you would take your time to do that. So thank you so much for that. Doing it this way is crazy. It's crazy. It's amazing. And we love it. And we wouldn't have it any other way. Jimmy, what about you?

What if they want to get a hold of you? You can find me at Westman Sucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks, as R.J. Davis did. It's his twin brother Roy's birthday. Hey, happy birthday. Roy's not with us, but it's his birthday. Well, happy birthday to him too

because he's a twin. And R.J., great. Thank you. Also, Thomas and his sister, Chris Smith. Chris is a nurse and she's caring for terminal patients. She's a fucking hero.

So thank you, Chris. Wow, thank you so much. Also, Aaron Gitz. You guys, we can't do this without you guys. Absolutely. And thank you truly from the bottom of my heart. It's super fucking warming to know that you guys are there and doing this for us. So thank you.

Where can I find you? Jimmy P is funny. You know her. Just copy and paste my name. You'll find me out there. Jesus Christ. We're around. Yeah.

James from Small Town Murder. You'll find me. Don't worry about it about it's not like i'm hiding yeah so with that said everybody thank you so much hope you enjoyed and hope you've cleansed yourself maybe wash your mouth out with soap and take a shower and feel a little bit better stay off the home page and come back next week because holy shit do we have a wild ha episode for you. It is a crazy, spooky carnival of literally from a carnival. Crazy shit. With that said, everybody, thank you so much. Honestly, I say it all the time, but thank you so much.

And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.