Small Town Murder - #196 - A Man Named "Hillbilly" in Fruitville, Florida

Episode Date: November 5, 2020

This week, in Fruitville, Florida, where a body is found in a drainage ditch, with its skull caved in. A peek into their life reveals a person that more people wanted dead, than liked them. At first the culprit seems clear, but the addition of extra witnesses & suspects confuse everything. This story is a crazy, wild ride, from start to finish! Along the way, we find out that you can hug goats, that when everyone you know wants you dead... maybe it's you, and that "a round face" might not be the best witness description! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcast See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Fruitville, Florida, where a body is found with its skull caved in and out of several people who may have wanted this

person dead for many reasons, one suspect seems to rise above the rest until there's another suspect and then one more. back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us again on another insane, crazy edition of Small Town Murder. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Both of our, neither of us have slept a lot lately. You can probably hear it

in my voice. I've had, I haven't had a day off in like two weeks. It's been a tough couple of weeks. Yeah, it's been, I haven't slept in a long time, so.

But I am jacked. I have a delirious energy that it's really going to be fun today plus i took a lot of edible so all of those factors together we're going to have a good time and i know it's a stressful week for people the rest of the world i don't know if you're it's stressful for you but for the united states it's a stressful week and so we figured you know we're not going to this story today is exactly what everyone's going to need just uh no not having it's just crazy

it's it's it's weird but it's it's why it's one of those just wild oh my god only on small town murder type of stories that you're going to hear full of panhandlery and hillbillery to the 10th power all right wait till you see it it's going to be so much but it's florida that's one thing we can all fight yeah everybody can fight and go back and forth, and that's fine. We can all agree Florida is a tire fire. So, as a state, crazy shit happens there, so we're going to go down to Florida and make fun of it today.

Quickly, want to thank everyone for their reviews this week on Apple Podcasts, that purple icon. That helps a lot. We don't know why it helps, but it helps drive you up the charts. Not sure why, but it's a business thing. if you want to help us out please do that give us five stars doesn't matter what you say say anything you want just don't make it political so or do it i don't give a shit what you say either way five stars though if that would be great do that also

head over to shut up and give me murder.com for everything small town murder and crime and sports related. Listen to Crime and Sports if you haven't been listening. Oh, my God, you're missing out. That's so fun. So much craziness is going on there. Also, listen to PS I Hate This Movie because we've hit a weird groove over there, too. It's a lot of fun. And first, I really, really want to thank everybody.

Every last one of you. For the virtual live show attendance. Thank you, guys. You blew us away with your enthusiasm for it. and we just, we cannot thank you enough. We had so much fun, and I know, like, it was about a third of the people said they kind of had a few audio problems or something, and some of it was the mic setup, and some of it might have been your Wi-Fi or something, because some people said it was smooth. We're not sure, but we're going to smooth that out.

We're definitely going to do another one. Next time, it'll be an actual small-town murder, like a real live show like we do on the road, and we'll do it that way. We're going to set up a mic setup that's going to be awesome and it's going to be wild, so stay tuned for that. Thank you guys so much, though, everybody, honestly. Having that

in the bank and done and knowing what you guys will will support for us it's enormous it's a huge gauge and we were completely staggered by what you did for us we want to have fun and and get with everybody that's why we do the live shows and we want to you know come to you but we really can't right now so this is the way we can do it we'll come to everybody at once so that's we'll do it thank you so much for doing that though so uh we really do appreciate that and if you want to be want to get extra content let's say you want to be a patreon supporter you can do that very easily we have so much crazy stuff on patreon last week it was haunted little small towns and haunted stuff for halloween i'm still getting

messages about haunted shit that people have seen oh they yeah people had a good time with that awesome and we talked about that the next one we're going to do next week is going to be about I'm still getting messages about haunted shit that people have seen. Oh, yeah. People had a good time with that. It's awesome. And we talked about that. The next one we're going to do next week is going to be about the Chris Watts documentary. What a story. Because that's kind of right up our alley. I mean, that's a small town.

It's a small town murder case. And we would do the case if it wasn't such a big case. If there wasn't 19 podcasts put out last week. Instead, we'll just talk about it. Yeah, breaking it down in detail. So we'll talk about it in a bonus, and we'll do that. Everything like that you can get at patreon.com slash crimeinsports. Anybody over the $5 level, all sorts of great bonus materials.

You also get access to all the crime and sports bonus. It's great stuff. It's well worth it. We promise you that. And if you just want to be a producer and have Jimmy mispronounce your name, which any contribution will get your name mispronounced at the end of the show, you can do that as well over at PayPal using our email address, crimeinsportsatgmail.com. And thank you for that also. Thank you so much.

Quick disclaimer, it's a comedy podcast. Gotcha. Stories are real. I know they don't seem like it sometimes because they're so insane, but somehow they're real. This stuff actually happened. We're not making anything up, but we're're comedians so we're going to make jokes we make jokes around craziness that happens around it's a crazy idea to let's murder someone so when people have that idea that there's probably funny things happening because it's such a nutty idea we're

going to find the jokes in that that's what it is there and what we're not going to do though is we're going to go out of our way not to make fun of the victim or the victim's family because we're assholes but we're not scumbags and there you have it that's how it works so if that sounds good to you buckle up if not we warned you sorry i don't know if you don't like the show i don't know what to tell you that's fine but if it sounds good to you let's let's let's release everything here sit back clear the lungs and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy all right let's go on a trip i would absolutely love it let's go let's go a traveling let's see here yeah we are we've been all over the place lately and now we're gonna go down

we were indiana last week i believe yes indiana last week it seems like six months ago but it was last week we're in Indiana. This week we're going to go on down to Florida, which are always some of our favorites. Whenever there's a Florida episode, everyone's like, ooh, it's a Florida. It's in everybody. You know what I mean? They're very popular episodes. Everybody knows that there's going to be a lot of crazy.

Because if you're going to sift through Florida murders, you're not going to just pick something that's not insane. You're going to pick, you know, there's a lot to pick from. We could have done 17 cases on Florida. I could just do it in a row. We could do the next six months on only Florida and it would be an amazing show. I swear to God. But this is wild. Podcast of Tire Fire Florida.

That's it. We're going down to fruitville great well of course it's that's the florida they dug deep this is on the central western coast of florida it's basically inside it's basically like a suburb of sarasota it's kind of like when we did that that city in in idaho and boise that's kind of technically inside boise but it's its own small town kind of what we got here okay so we're kind of we're kind of technically inside Boise, but it's its own small town. Kind of what we got here. Okay. So we're kind of cheating it a little bit.

Panhandle, but like in the corner? No, no, no. This is down by Tampa. Is it down there? Yeah, western central coast. Sarasota. Sarasota, not Pensacola. Not Pensacola.

Yeah, that's up there. Tallahassee up there. Yeah, well, Florida's confusing anyway. So it's just, like we said, it's all panhandles. Two panhandles welded together at the panhandle taint. That's what Florida is here. So this is, like I said, central western coast right outside Florida. It's about an hour from Tampa, about five and a half hours to Greenwood, Florida, which

was our last Florida episode. That was the neighbors, right? That was 164. That episode number. I kind of remember it. That guy. This guy was he was an idiot. If I remember correctly.

I remember like, no, that was like an orange something yeah yeah yeah um this is in sarasota county yeah uh area code 941 7.1 square miles and there's some water in there like most of florida it's it's almost land that you can you know punch through with your foot oh yeah just hit ocean. There's not a lot under there. Don't wear cowboy boots here. No, no. Heels will put you right through the land. If it's not paved, don't wear heels. You'll end up swimming.

So you get a lot of kind of spots of water everywhere in this swampy shit. So there's some water here. Town motto. Odd. It's almost like they saw us coming. Quote, come for the fruit. Stay for the murder. All right. It's not their town motto um odd it's almost like they saw us coming uh quote come for the fruit stay for the murder all right it's not their town motto it's the one i've given it but that's it it doesn't have a town motto good enough and i gotta say this is an area that kind of it's sort

of it's kind of came into existence like it always was an area but it's kind of it's weird hard to explain but it was kind of a rural area and it's kind of come into existence over time. So this is kind of where the murder was, but it's a little bit off of it, but it's the closest place we could find to it. It's one of those. So we'll make fun of it. What the fuck? Anyway, the name Sarasota of the county is there a several disputed legends of how the name became came into account legend connects it with a girl named sarah oh who was the daughter of the conquistador de

soto okay de soto there i think he discovered quote discovered the mississippi quite the fine sir i was just walking and there it was couldn't walk any big fucking river man i was like shit fuck i do i could either i could try to afford it i could try to float across it or i could hire an indian to help now i'm not sure which i'm gonna do but my son has dysentery right still shitting boy swimming it isn't an option we're gonna shit goddamn cattle and cattle shit's gonna float away gonna lose all our axles and wheels. It's gonna be no good. I don't know why I gave a Spanish man from Spain a hill.

But I think as soon as he got there, it just happened. He as he was landing is like that it is the land and they landed and he's like, oh man, look around here. What the fuck happened? This feels right. And the kids like, I don't know. My shoes fell off of my pants is too short now. I don't get it.

So, um, yeah, some right and the kid's like i don't know my shoes fell off and my pants is too short now i don't get it so um yeah some i took a step there's mud all over the bottom of my jeans well then just cut them cut them up there you go now you got them little strings hanging down the ladies like that that's what that that's what they into cut. Cut it off. Now, some people thought it originated with an Indian word, Sarakota, which meant a landfall easily observed. The map where it first came, where you first saw it, was in like the mid-1700s. It was known as Port Sarasote, like S-O-T-E. And then they changed it to Sarasota with a Z. And then it became Sarasota at some point here. The county was created in 1921. And yeah, it's like I said, it's got its European roots, I guess, if that's what they...

They'll try to put like Spanish when it's convenient and then it's not when it isn't. Whatever. When it's a pain in the ass to pronounce. You know, whatever. So there's a guy named Joseph Daniel Anderson. I found like... I love finding these accounts from the Times just to see how boring these people's fucking lives were how much of an entire he found his diary their whole lives were sahara desert fart facts that's their whole

entire lives just they woke up yeah they worked till it was not light anymore somebody died of the sniffles and then they sat there yeah and buried a child and then that was it there was nothing else to do just nowhere to go so apparently after the civil war a lot of people from georgia moved their families to florida because georgia had been fucking decimated by sherman's army you know cutting through it on purpose so you know they moved down to uh moved down to florida to you know find better land so one of them was this guy joseph daniel anderson he was born in 1867 and uh was a child when his father moved down there and he ended up staying down there for a long time and uh it was southern manatee county this guy was and with only hand tools he converted

the florida wilderness into an agricultural industry. Oh, boy. He went out there with some, I don't know. That seems. With a hoe and a rake. I doubt it was by himself. How do you go out and just conquer the Florida wilderness? He would have been eaten by a snake or a gator or something pretty quickly, I imagine.

Anyway, there was land that he ended up noticing that it produced vegetables and sugar cane and citrus. And he raised cattle down there and pigs and all this type of shit. He and his brother, Moses, he's got a brother named Moses, prospered in ranching. They were big ranchers until the Range Law Act made it so you couldn't use this land that wasn't yours for grazing. Okay. And that was that. Get off our land, do it on your own. Yeah, yeah.

Before that, it was just open season. could your cows could graze anywhere people do that still it's pretty fucking amazing that that's a thing no you can just raise a farm and cattle and shit it's great on nobody else on somebody else's shit and they they're not allowed to they can't block it either there's different laws a hundred times and i remember and it's complaining about it in colorado that laws a hundred times and i remember and it's complaining about it in colorado that things would wander in his property and he's like i'm not even allowed to fucking kill them it's ridiculous it's like all angry about it he's like i should be able to eat that if i want to eat it i'd love to put that cow down yeah because it looks like he wanted

to eat it that's why yeah he's got a nice tenderloin wasn't a bloodlust it was like that's hunting i mean he lived in the mountains and he liked to hunt shit so hunted a cow yeah i guess so so some of the this is wild too they sleds were used to move the farm produce and fruit and cattle to lemon bay where they were transferred to boats and ships and all that shit some of the wagons were rafted across the bay like in like in oregon trail just put on a fucking raft sent them over there and so they would ferry them all the way to cuba sometimes some of these really these products yeah this guy also pioneered commercial fishing in the north lemon bay which had a shitload of mullet really which is yeah i didn't know that that was a fish oh yeah

there's a mullet fish what does it look like a still billy with the waterfall yeah that's where it came from that's where the term that's where the mullet came from the fish because that's where people got down here yeah this is where this is the birthplace of the mullet just a bunch of joe dart swimming around the fertile cradle of mullet civilization it is right here mullipotamia i call it the seed of life it's all just it's all just singing kid rock songs yeah i don't mean to laugh at my own thing but mullipotamia is pretty fucking pretty solid i didn't expect that one i'll put it that way it just came out surprised yourself you might have you might as well have said that and i would have went holy shit just a surprise i think it's the edible so anyway

a bunch of kid rock kid rock looking fish singing steppenwolf songs speed wagon baby not great so they uh these guys fished with nets which is wild you can catch them with that huh i guess so scoop it out scooping on up the mullets aren't very bright i suppose imagine they're pretty dumb why they're that came from too probably right it's a dumber slower fish yeah a little bit behind the times the other fish are up there it's just hanging out in the back trying to light a cigarette it's hard for it to swim when it's dragging a 30 pack of strows that's that's the problem that it's stole from the gas station while their friend distracted the the guy by buying a pack of chesterfields or whatever bullshit old school cigarette brand he's using sing some popular song with new words yeah exactly fucking asshole

that's awesome and he makes a billion fucking of course makes a shitload of money off somebody else's music good for you you're a real originator fucking jerk you fucking jerk weirdo was awesome too he's great his songs were funny that's the thing you suck that's the thing if you're gonna do it make it funny and he does make it funny that's what's fine kid rock does it seriously and we're supposed to be like yeah bro yeah no write your own shit cool man fucking tired hey i like how you mash together three songs here it's pretty cool and wrote your own about how great you are? You took like Puff Daddy's formula of, you know, it would be cool.

It's hard to get people to like new songs. Right. You know how you get them to like them? You just make it a song they already like. Right. And then you just put other words on it. About a 30-foot boat with a snowplow on it. But the rest of it's the same.

What are we talking about? But yeah, Kid Rock was like, no, no, no, no. You take it to the next level. Yeah, people like that song, but you take it to the next level yeah people like that song but you know what they really like this song that song and this song too so i'm gonna mash them all together and they're gonna like it three times as much it's an odd way of doing business so i'm talking about my jet ski boat that i welded together yes and put on a trailer with spinning rims fuck yeah what and then a snowplow fuck you kid i don't even know your name what is your name

you are 50 sir sir you are sir rock at this point but not like in an english way you are mr rock yeah you are and we only do that out of elderly respect that's it yeah that's it otherwise it has nothing to do with you being successful mullets don't get you a lot of misters fucking jerk if you want the misters you got to lose the mullet that's the the phrase that we're going with today so uh the ringling brothers were here the john and charles ringling oh that was their name yeah these assholes who brought us, you know. Tortured animals. Tortured animals and scared children for decades.

For a century. Thanks, guys. Threw weird people around. Strings. Thanks for scaring the shit out of me when I was six. And my neighbors took me to the fucking. I went with this whole family. The people who live next door to my grandmother.

I swear. There was like 14 people in this family. It was this whole family. The people that live next door to my grandmother, I swear, there was like 14 people in this family. It was a huge family. And the parents were from the Philippines, and all the kids were born here, and they had a big fucking family, and they had other people that had moved there. When somebody would move over, they'd just move into their house.

And they were really nice people. I used to play football with the kids. They were cool as fuck. And they took me to the circus, these people, next door, and I was fucking terrified of the circus. They had like multiple clowns and they were extra sadistic. And I was fucking not happy about it. So John and Charles Ringling, yeah, they came in and invested in property in Sarasota.

And just before that, that was right after it became a city. They invested a bunch in it. And then tourists started coming in because it's by the water. So, I mean, people from up north, it's warm and there's water. They'll come there. Sure. And so with the tourism and all this type of shit and the Ringling Brother investments, new people started coming and it kind of drove this area up. And then they created Sarasota County out of Manatee County out of a chunk of it in 1921.

1900, the telephone was extended out to this town which it hadn't been before that ran a cable under the ocean yeah they had to yeah nowhere else to run it wild so i have some reviews of this town and they're so different yet oddly similar it's so strange they're everybody here it's almost like i don't know what it is if everyone has brain damage that wrote these reviews i don't mean like i mean they just got hit in the head with like a ball peen hammer and then they were like i need to write a review of my town on niche.com right and they did it because it's all something very specific and personal to them that it's very weird okay here's a three they're all three stars we'll give you just a bunch of average reviews quote sarasota is an interesting place and that it varies dramatically in different parts of town

it's different in different places jimmy wild isn't that weird weird thing to have most cities exactly the same everywhere in town there's no nice part or shit part or old part or new part don't come to phoenix it's like a plaid jacket yeah it's yeah a mile a mile hey look at this oh was that a gunshot yeah hey look at that house what is that a 7 000 square foot mansion oh god duck that happens within four minutes of itself it's crazy just driving westward so uh yes certain areas have a sense of luxury and wealth while others appear to be on the other end of the spectrum you know know, every city on Earth. You know, like a society.

Like everywhere. However, overall, I would say that there's a lot of wealth in Sarasota, which contributes to one of its most attractive assets, the arts. There is a rich culture here, especially downtown. However, much of the population is older, and thus things can move a little slowly at times. Okay. Okay.

Now, three stars for the next one. Just, by the way, no capital letters at all in this. Not a lot of clubbing type places. Lots of bars. Okay. Okay. That's their entire take on the town. The bars don't have the music I like is what I took from that. Yeah.

I want to dance. And instead, it's like, sit down. Instead, it's got kid rock playing. Yeah. Yeah. Just not liking it. it so three stars here says quote most people i know that live in my neighborhood have stayed the entirety of their lives here however i have seen a few people leave due to pet restrictions okay wait what which ones are they that's what i mean get the fuck out i don't know

some towns some municipalities and whatever will have uh dog breed restrictions yeah i know that i don't know if florida would because in florida i feel like you could have two machine guns and a cobra around your neck and people would be like well i don't see nothing wrong with that he's just expressing himself right you know it's fine at that walmart you know like that is trained to fire an ar yeah an armed pit bull with a cobra around its neck and you walk and you're carrying it on your shoulder like that the dog with a loaded up and florida they'd be like yep that's that's regulation carry on somebody sketch that it's going on the flag yeah that's i think that should be on the flag.

So, yeah, that's some serious pet restrictions if they're leaving. Three stars for this one. I have not heard of any complaints of the employment status of my neighborhood. Oh. That's the whole review. I haven't. I don't have. But three stars. Average because I haven't heard any complaint.

No one's saying anything good either. I'm not hearing good things, but, you know, no complaints. And here's another three stars. Average because I haven't heard any complaints. No one's saying anything good either. I'm not hearing good things, but no complaints. And here's another three star. There are always buses going around for public transportation, and there is one airport on one side of town. Yeah. That's it. Sounds good. That's the whole review.

Keeps it on that side of town, and there's transportation. That sounds great. Why would you review that, though? Three stars. There's buses and an airport okay anything else sounds like a guy with a dui is that a terrible airport and the buses suck there's no opinion okay i found another three star here quote i have lived in this house for almost a decade now and it has become a very comfortable living arrangement are all of these people on fucking pills or what is the fucking this sounds like yeah you just dragged several people from an oxycontin stupor and said type tell us what you think of your town and they're like i've lived here and it's been a

very comfortable living what's the arrangement is this cool is this good can i go back to sleep now i'm just fucking her i don't i'm not married or nothing it feels comfortable it's very comfortable now people of this town it's the population has grown like in in the 80s when our story took place there was only about 3 000 people around this area just a different kind of area it was more rural and it's become kind of more suburban now it's uh nowadays 13,541 people up 38 percent since 1990 like the most of like the rest of florida people have moved there from the northeast a lot unbelievable to me every day still the people i get it leaving the snow to go somewhere

where it's sunny but how do you land in florida when you just look at any fucking newspaper how do you ever go sounds great i'll ignore it that's when people go i would never you can live with anything that's what it is people can live with anything so female more females than males here which is how cheap's it gotta be you know what i mean and this isn't even cheap no no we'll get to it uh more females than males i think that's because the population's a little older 46.8 is the median age, so that's about 10 years more than normal. That usually means older people, more elderly people, more women. They always outlive us, so that's how that works.

Married population, everything else is just about the same. 50-50 for married. A few more widows because the population's older, but about the same as far as people with children and all that kind of shit. Now, race of this town 85 percent white 1.8 percent black interesting and not not too many it's florida too so that's wild that's wild 2.2 percent asian and uh more asians than black people in florida this town that's just it's just odd and 10 percent hispanic which again is kind of low for florida so close to it's a tampa like that too yeah yeah only an hour away uh religion about 44 percent of the people are religious and they are

mostly catholic 20 20 percent are catholic you got a lot of people from the northeast and um and also the hispanic population you're gonna get more catholics down there 1.5 percent jewish i don't know the words hey yay yeah that's that's been a while jesus christ at least three months a long time yeah it's been a while 0.2 percent islam uh we're definitely not doing politics today um You're the riddance for today. Especially from Florida. Who knows? Could be anything. Oh, fucking Jesus. Could be anything. So unemployment rate down here is about the same as the rest of the country.

Median household income is a little more. It's usually about $57,000. Here it's $66,000, almost $67,000. All the demographics that make over $60,000 are high. Really? All the poor demos are low. Interesting. So there's a lot of,

there's more retail and healthcare jobs, but there's also a lot of professional and scientific and technical jobs here as well. Cost of living, out of 100, it's 112. It's a little bit high, and housing is the highest of all. Housing's a 145. Oh my. Which is why you moved to Florida,

because it's cheap housing, and here it's not. Median home cost here, $334,800. My God. Which is why you moved to Florida, because it's cheap housing. And here, it's not. Median home cost here, $334,800. My God. Which is crazy. And if you need this, I don't know for what, if you have to move to Fruitville, if it's court-ordered, we have for you the court-ordered Fruitville, Florida real estate report. estate report your average two-bedroom rental here is about fifteen hundred sixty dollars which is wow above the average three hundred bucks or so above the average it's more than my rent here that's what i mean in a house that you have i found a three-bedroom two-bath house 994 square

feet it's a fucking mess yeah it looks like the jungle has reclaimed it hell yeah like it's in there there's at least snakes if not corpses yeah it's i would you couldn't pay me enough to go in this house uh 134 900 bucks and it needs a lot of work a lot of work it needs a new house it needs to be taken back from the elements. It looks like there's trees growing through it. It's a disaster. For over 100 grand. Wow. Two bedroom, two bath, 1,072 square foot house.

This is like the clean, nice version of this. It's like new and all washed and nice and no flora running through it. 222,500. So that's a small one. And then there aren't a lot of big houses here. This is a very kind of all the houses are like 1,800, 2,000 square feet. Yeah. Found a four bedroom, three bath, 2,658 square foot place.

Decent, nice house. 425,990 bucks. That's not it. Way too expensive. Oh, boy. So I don't know, Florida. How do you? No, thank you.

Things to do here. The Fruitville Grove Pumpkin Festival. Holy shit. Come for the pumpkin festival. It just ended. It was every week of October. It was still going on. Really?

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Of course. Events they had. Costume contest every Saturday at 2. Local vendor craft show. Pony rides. Oh, oh my god oh boy enchanted unicorn encounter you assholes i've been dying for an inch i've had unicorn encounters but they haven't been as enchanted as i would have liked them to been so i'd like to know what super glue they use yeah put that on the horse here you go right um

butterfly garden experience horse-drawn carriage rides they just pluck the unicorn horn off and stick a carriage on them kids fun zone mini train ride playground pumpkin painting hug a goat oh boy hug a goat for some reason uh animal petting zoo a zipline Torres Extreme Riders in the Globe of Death. Awesome. That's the guys that go around. Yes, with the motorcycles and the fucking cage circle. All of that, and then Extreme Riders in the Globe of Death.

That is completely... Hug a goat or watch these guys almost die? Death Globe or goat hug? What do you think, sweetheart? Which one do you want to see? How do you have hug a goat and a petting zoo? What do you think, sweetheart? Which one do you want to see? How do you have hug a goat and a petting zoo? Like if you go to hug one,

that's $5 over there. You pet the, you hug them over here. And then the Torres One Ring Family Circus. What? It's three ring is the traditional, I believe, amount of rings. It's a one ring. I don't know.

This is all free. Yeah. This is all free. Yeah, this is all free except for the rides. Pony rides, walk, rock wall and bounce houses, zip line and all this shit have different prices ranging from a buck to 10 bucks. Daily activities. Jesus, they all everything. You can hug a goat any goddamn day of the week. And then live performance by Bill bill vinhage that's coming to you bill vinhage or vinhage then october 17th very lucky they had sarah nelms there oh which is

i mean i'm sad i missed it we should be in florida for that one and then uh a young talented solo violinist uh does a performance in a pumpkin patch as well. No name. Dene is the name there. Young and talented, there's pumpkins. Get over here. Get over here. Sit in that patch and do this.

Watch out for snakes. And then there's a children's costume contest all the week. They also have every Saturday. They also have a berry festival as well. It's just fucking berries this is bleak it's berries hand-dipped blueberry cheesecake ice cream blah blah blah yes lots of shit like that um you can bring your dogs but uh they must be up to date on vaccines and on a leash that's right and someone will pick it up by accident need a crime

rate in this town what we're interested in here property crime slightly high it's about one-third high but it's a lot of tourists and shit coming through here so that's actually not bad and violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault don't forget about assault yeah uh the mount rushmore of crime is slightly high about 10 high but in the range of normal so it's kind of a it's a quiet suburban kind of place and that's just the way it is it's average florida with outrageous pricing for houses yes exactly kind of i guess it's turned into kind of a more pricier little enclave not back in 1986 though in this area and we'll talk about this uh go back to 1986 let's talk about in may 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him

to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family.

But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. About a murder. Right. Okay, let's do it here. 1986, we'll'll just we'll start there and we'll talk about a couple of people first person we have to talk about he's 33 years old at the time in 86 not

from florida he's been all over the place he's from kentucky yeah and he lived in ohio and he's lived all over we'll talk about the places he's lived but he's a man named ireland boyd that's his first name ireland yeah ireland boyd okay that's a hell of a handle how do you get what do you do with that well do you get you get a nickname oh that's what you do because no one's gonna call you ireland and an ira what everybody mistakes me jewish and i gotta explain them not i gotta be like i ain't my name's ireland it's weird i know my mom's an asshole he's overly offended that they thought he was jewish yeah one of those things um no no what are you gonna call him irish yeah that doesn't really go so

instead they come up with a name that just suits his personality don't go off his name his name that everyone calls him hillbilly perfect hillbilly this is hillbilly boyd right here. Oh, my God. So, right away, we're in western Florida. It sounds like a wrestler that close to Tampa. Hillbilly Ireland Boyd. Ladies and gentlemen, coming down the aisle from Sarasota, Florida, weighing 386 pounds, Ireland, Hillbilly Boyd. Do you put Hillbilly Boy do you put Hillbilly after Ireland or before it

it's Ireland Hillbilly Boy you think so Hillbilly Ireland Boy that's his wrestling name if he was a boxer he'd be Ireland Hillbilly Boy his wrestling name is Hillbilly Ireland Boy they probably and then after a while Vince is like why do we keep saying this?

We're saying he's a hillbilly and then he's Irish and the next, I don't understand. It's too much. What are we doing? Why are we doing this? He's either a hillbilly

or he's Irish. Let's decide which one and do it. It's a bite out of like a pickled gator. Yeah. He's a hillbilly. Fights it on the side.

He's going to put his overalls on and ah he's gonna get all excited christ sorry to bring vince mcmahon to the small town murder world but it's when it suits it it's gotta do it hillbilly hillbilly so hillbilly boyd oh boy is 33 years old and uh he is exactly what you'd expect him to be if i said hey i know that guy named hillbilly boy yeah what pops in your head yeah that's the guy take that picture frame it keep it there for the rest of the show florida jim duggan yes yeah jim duggan uh after he just saw an alligator perfect jim duggan fighting an alligator picture and excited about it and very excited about it so hillbilly boyd uh i found a couple

of things in that he did in the newspaper from when he lived in ohio 10 years earlier by the way in the 70s it's pretty funny i found him in 1972 uh in 1973 he was arrested for failure to transfer his plates on his car. They put that in the newspaper? It was in the newspaper. Oh, the embarrassment. In Norwalk, Ohio. Oh, no. Small towns like that will do that.

Anybody that does anything, they put it in the newspaper. Fucking church. Which is terrible. Yeah, that's the worst. Oh, boy. And then everybody's friends will be, I saw your friend got arrested. And then everybody's mother doesn't let them hang out with that one anymore. Oh, come on.

Get your car registered, Boyd. Yeah. Hey, Boy boyd how you fix them plates up god damn it jesus christ so i read in the gazette no i read it over in the in the norwalk reader it's a good article norwalk report it's that's what they said damn it then i found another report here from that era which is hilarious this is one where he says he was assaulted oh and the title of it the article is just quote men say they were assaulted that's it so i'm like when i saw the title i'm like just like men as a whole like a bunch of men are saying they're assaulted it's like a you know we're gonna reverse domestic violence article or something from the 70s.

I don't know what's going on. There's some female rapist. Yeah. Yeah. They've been assaulted running away. Guys going, my dick was sore when she was done with me. I swear to God, I thought she was going to take it off. She just got her nails done.

I mean, yeah, I liked it, but you know, I'm sore now is all I'm saying. That's all. I just, you know, it was not, I'm sore now is all I'm saying. That's all. I just, you know, it was not. I'd do it again. I'm not lying. If you all got her number, you know, it's just tell her I'm looking. Her nail caught a wrinkle in the scrotum. So now when I sweat, it hurts.

That's all for like two days. Probably it tangles. It tangles. How do you say that? Had to take some PTO. Oh, you know that. Actually, I just got fired pto i only been there three weeks and i got no pto unemployment so you know well no actually i'm not because i quit so um in the end because they said if you do that again i'm gonna fire you and i was like you ain't gonna fire me i'll fire you motherfucker and i was like yeah and i walked out

and i was like shit i just saw that movie take this job and motherfucker and i was like yeah and i walked out and i was like shit i just saw that movie take this job and shove it i was like my opportunities now i'm gonna do it so this article says two men claimed and claimed is spelled wrong in the newspaper by the way jimmy i have a photo of the fucking look at that oh boy calum calamine calum climbed two men climbed c-a-l-i-m-e-d oh the journalism two men climbed they were assaulted in separate incidents over the weekend so let's put it in an article why is this in the newspaper ireland boydd told police he was attacked while sitting outside his apartment Sunday evening. See, the thing is, oh, my God. And then they forget the D in his name in the next.

I swear, Jimmy. This just says boy. Next paragraph. Boy told the police. Am I lying? It's fucking God. That author should be fired. Christ.

This is a goddamn news. What was this? This is like a middle school put this out hope you ain't looking for a pulitzer this is their newspaper of record from this town incredible fuck me so yeah told a man approached him and started calling him names you know hillbilly g calling him calling him name, worse than hillbilly? Wait a second. They call it, what could offend you, sir?

You go by hillbilly. He said, sir, call it a name, and then hit him in the mouth, chipping one of his teeth. Oh. So, which is crazy, because they're all the only ones he has are in the back, so he must have really got in there. Both of them. Yeah. Yeah. So, apparently, by the way, we'll find out. Hillbilly has a lot of enemies.

Really? Just a lot of it. Nobody likes Hillbilly because you'll find out why. So another guy here, Richard Polachek, told police that they think it might have been the same person. He was pushed by a man at the park. He said the man tried to get him to fight by calling him names. It's the same description and same type of uh approach some guy going around like looking for his own fight club

just trying to start fight club this guy's sitting on his porch what's up motherfucker pussy like i'm on my porch spraying people with a hose we're not at a nightclub or i'm on my porch like what are you doing who does that who starts fights in people's front yards for no reason i don't even know you so he said he uh he the man pushed him against a car and then an hour about a half hour later the man polchek claimed assaulted him came to the police station and he told the police that he had pushed polchek against a car because polichek was saying things about the man's girlfriend who was nowhere near any of this okay so apparently this dude thought that a stranger said hey your girlfriend's a fucking bitch or something even though she's not there and you have no way of knowing if he even

has a girlfriend yeah and this apparently happened twice in the same time he might have been the same guy writing this article misspelling shit i'm not positive the same man who's making shit up absolutely so now ireland boyd hillbilly yeah his wife he finds a wife the hillbilly finds a woman wow and that is mary katherine boyd she'll be boyd now uh mary katherine boyd uh they they got together they had been together since about 1977 they've been married since about 81 ish 80 81 they got married so this is you know been married about five years been together almost 10 married in ohio and moved to florida yeah they've been all around they lived in kentucky where hillbilly was born got it and and grown i guess it makes the sense. You grow a hillbilly. Indiana, Ohio, and Texas. Jesus.

Before, and both those articles were from Ohio, by the way. Before ending up in Florida. Yep. I'd say before moving to Florida. But these are the type of people that end up in Florida. Or end up wherever they are, not just in Florida. They just, we ended up here. And here is a trailer park in Florida.

This is where they live. They have children, which is, again, two children total. So two children, Hillbilly, Mary Catherine Boyd, living in a trailer that they ended up in in Florida after their multi-state tour. So, yeah, this isn't the most idyllic relationship. I don't think that, you know, she played house as a child and imagined this as her life. I imagine a man named Hillbilly

that will drag me from state to state with my children and eventually end up in a sinking trailer in Florida. So, you know what I mean? My mash outcome was much better than that that's what i'm saying she grew up like a little girl she would have been in the 50s like a little girl in the late 50s they would have like oh what are we gonna do when we go men would have thought hey

what kind of woman am i gonna marry and that's what kids thought of back then she would have went oh and made up her little wedding and she's like no no take your shirt off you're playing hillbilly put these overalls on like vince mcmahon told you do that so this ain't it at all this ain't it so yeah this is what happened they now where they live this area is a lower income it's a trailer park and the whole area is a lower income area it's known as for the time especially because in the 80s it's weird the south and a lot of places not just the south there's a lot of places that are segregated racially, but not like legally segregated.

They're just sort of, it's just the way it is. So this area is a mix of people, all different people around here living in here. There's, you know, of all races and shit. The only thing they got in common is no money. They don't have a lot of money, exactly. And this whole area is trailers and apartments. that's the whole area they live in so for a long time for a long not in florida but other no you either much hotter yeah here

just as just as hot and weird and bad so um now with hillbilly mary said this is her wow imagine this is your husband, this is her. Wow. Imagine this is your husband and this is how you describe him. You're your partner in life. Quote. And I guess it's half ass compliment. Quote. When he wasn't drinking, he wasn't too bad.

That's how she starts out, which is right away. When he's sober, he's not nice, but he's not me. He's not the worst. So, boy, but he drank most of the He's not the worst. Boy, oh boy. But he drank most of the time and used to mess up quite a bit. Like I ended up in the hospital a couple times and he'd hit the kids and stuff like just when he was drinking, which was most of the time. That's her quote. So he wasn't bad when he wasn't drinking, but he drank all the time.

And when he did, he beat the shit out of her and the kids. But that was only when he was drinking. he drank all the time and when he did he beat the shit out of her and the kids but that was only when he was drinking but most of the time yeah so most of the time he's a monster that beats the shit out of his wife and kids and at least two times it got so bad she needed to go to the hospital which is an extreme measure for people who don't have a lot of money that means she was terrified she was gonna die yeah i i have i avoided the hospital for years because i didn't have health insurance where i was like unless i was like i'm going to die in the next 10 minutes i was not going to the hospital because i would couldn't be in debt for the next 10 years for it so it was like well if i can survive it i'll stay home that's how you think

i've been the opposite for a long time you know i had a job in a health insurance and i still wouldn't go to the hospital unless i was like yeah i can't survive this alone it's desperate yeah and i guarantee you he wasn't too encouraging of her going to the hospital because he beat the shit out of her right especially document yeah one time you can say i fell down but after that it's like you fell down again and got another black guy got a lot of doorknob no yeah i don't think so yeah exactly it's ridiculous oh and also hillbilly abused her sexually when he was drunk too he'd have his way with her there in addition to that it's like it can't get any worse um you know he's obviously not ideal to say the fucking least he's abusive physically sexually and every other way and mentally and beating the kids but

on top of that he didn't work so what if it couldn't get worse somehow it got worse what do you bring that's right well what are you saying you're so fucking on the edge about is the other thing you know what i mean that's always that's always back in the day, an abusive household. That was the thing that the guy would say. I work hard. What the fuck are you saying? You know what I mean? What would be his Tinder pitch?

What would be in his demented mind? Obviously, it's not an excuse anyway. But in his demented mind, what would be his thing to say? Well, that's my reasoning for that. This is what I do. It's just I feel like it because I'm shit-faced, and so I'm going to do it. There's my reasoning for that like this is what i do it's just i feel like it because i'm shit-faced and so i'm gonna do it there's no reasoning for that um my he said and as a woman you're in that position and you're just too scared to leave well yeah she explains

why she didn't leave too and oh my and he would she would run out of money or he would he didn't work and when he would when mary m Mary worked, but he would spend the money. Of course. So then they would run out of money between her paychecks, and when that happened, she said he would maybe work for a day or two doing day labor, quote, so he could get himself a bottle. That's the only reason why. He's going to drink just enough to go out, or he's going to work just enough to work a day to go out and get shit faced that night everybody knows somebody like this uh i mean if you're in a certain uh economic class yeah everybody i've i've known so many of these i've known this guy this guy's horrible yeah he's a bad guy yeah this isn't a guy that you know want to be around and uh apparently

this he's been like this forever but when they moved to Florida, it got extra bad because it's Florida. Because he wants out. Whatever's in the water down there that affects everybody else affected him too. Right. I guess it makes you 20% crazier. This guy didn't really have a lot of room to go in the north direction as far as crazy went.

Things are weird and bad. Anyway, April 26th, 1986. This is kind of a night we're going to go into in some detail. Now, about 730 or 8 p.m., Hillbilly arrives home to the trailer. Okay. Pulls in. Mary is home with the kids. She's been taking care of the kids in the trailer.

He comes in shit faced i can't express how drunk this man is comes in with a neighbor named frank achorn and frank says they've been hanging out and drinking since like noon good lord and it's 7 38 o'clock yeah and they're not drinking casually they're they're drinking for results purpose yeah you know there's there's we had some beers and talked and watched the races and then there's i drank because i was balting to get struck fucking drunk and that's that's what they're doing yeah it's drinking for a record yeah not a bad showing it's it's on like a peeing every 45 minutes schedule that's the level of drinking beer

you know that schedule oh i do oh boy man do i have to pee again i'm gonna wait for this commercial break i can't wait it's possible that's the worst yeah when it's uh yeah too much liquid that's why i don't get i can't i don't get when people can sit and drink a 12 pack of beer it's a lot i'm like all you're gonna you feel so bloated and constantly pissing it's like what am i doing this is you could drink just a little bit of booze and have the same result sometimes in the middle of our shows i've got a piss where like yeah and then you're we're still talking about a murder and i'm just like oh my god we haven't gotten to a court yet oh no a lot of trouble and then sometimes you'll just go we got

to stop i gotta go yeah i gotta i gotta do that you'll just run, we got to stop. I got to go. I got to go to the bathroom. You'll just run upstairs. I'm really sorry, James. I'm irresponsible. Mark that. I'm just like, mark that down. I'm not a mature man. We'll be back in a minute. I'm a child. It'd be funny if we left that in.

Then we'll be back in a minute. Then just come back to it. Okay, I'm back. If it didn't interrupt the flow of the story, not that this doesn't, but still. I'm so sorry. This says, it's fucking, that's great. No, you have to piss. You have to piss.

So Hillbilly is shit-faced. Yeah. And he's had, like I said, 45 minutes piss schedule kind of a day. Yeah. And Mary says that when Hillbilly was drunk, she says, quote, you know what was good for you, didn't do, you know what was good for you, you didn't say no to him. That's what he said. You know what's good for you. You know what's good for you. Yeah. say no to him that's what he said good for you know what's good for you yeah you just stayed out of his way yeah he's looking for a reason to tee off on somebody when he's drunk so you stay that's not a life to live no that's a horrible

life to sit and hold your breath when you hear the car coming in to hope he's not drunk enough to where you have to fucking like shuffle the kids out of the room quickly and like try to act like you're going to like, that's a horrible life. That's living like a goddamn, like a fucking captive. That's terrible, man.

Holy shit. Um, apparently she's, she had said no to him in the past a few times when he had told her to do things when he was drunk and, she, he would beat the shit out of her for it she heard her bad a few times and uh she said she learned over time that it was easier to agree with

him than to fight with him so he completely broke this poor woman's fucking spirit basically with this shit and uh also friends and neighbors said they would just have to at times just go yeah okay ireland all right hillbilly whatever you say whatever you say man just to get him to shut the fuck up it wasn't just the wife i'm talking grown people that lived around everybody did it he was like a tornado as a i mean i get that it's an it's an alcoholic's dream to have people submit to them but as a dude how could like how's that attractive i don't understand how is just having people serve a purpose and you know how's that there you mean to him yeah yeah yeah there's nothing hotter than a woman that says no yeah what's so

funny what's the well i mean because it it incites a conversation doesn't mean it's funny because he's not gonna listen and i'm just gonna plow right through that's not that's completely not what he wants ladies and gentlemen my partner who's gonna say my partner bill cosby over here i don't know what else to it just makes life so much more fun andra jackson raped somebody i'm sure yeah who knows anyway uh yeah i get what you're No, you don't want somebody who's not a fucking person. That's why. You want a person with a mind. When someone says no, that means they have a thought, and then they're going to tell you their thought.

Oh, I can't wait to hear why. And you engage with them, and that's kind of what relationships are supposed to be about. Yeah, and then you go, oh, wow, I really like the way that person thinks, and that's why you get with that person, stay with them for a long time, because you found someone who, when they go no, they say something that you're interested in. That's the point. Tell me why.

Exactly. That's the fucking point. That's a relationship. Unless that no is just to be a pain in the ass, and that's why I'm divorced. Exactly. That's why we are over here with a with a divorce a piece lined up for us so there's two divorces in the studio you got it yeah so it happens so i mean and i don't know

what mary's upbringing must have been to end up yeah to choose hillbilly yeah as a and then be like this is fine right you know i get the time is different and also the culture is different as well. I don't know if it's a – I know a lot of times domestic violence took a lot longer to have a stigma in the rural areas. And that's just a fact. Because there's less people around, so it was hidden more and And, you know, it wasn't out in the open thing. So, I mean, we all have heard of these towns, these small towns that have rules that where it's it's legal to beat your wife on the courthouse steps. And that's all. There's towns that have these like silly arcane rules from rule of thumb.

Yeah. From all that shit. So it's like, I don't know if it's in the culture or if she was brought up in an abusive environment and then looked for that, not on purpose, but her brain. I don't know what it is. But yeah, he would hurt her bad sometimes. And like I said, even the friends and neighbors would just stay out of his way. There wasn't even a friend that was like, yo, fuck you, hillbilly. I'm not taking your shit. Everyone was just like, don't even bother.

He's going to take a swing at you. So unless you're as drunk as him, you don't really want to deal with it it's easier to just say whatever guy yeah he's a big guy he's a big guy um but i mean you know not not you know he's not hulk hogan he's not i don't know why we're bringing up 80s wrestling so much today but that was in my head so i brought up like i saw the big show in my head so it's no no i'm thinking like i'm thinking because i brought up vince and that made me think of like like 80s era hulk hogan flexing because it's 86 right now in the story that's where my head's at picture big man i go big show yeah yeah yeah but if he's a mountain of a man sometimes if you're just cutting your

lawn and he's got something to say and you're like sure man whatever bro he's not somebody that you just feel he's gonna be a handful yeah to deal with if you got a problem if you get he's not somebody that you just feel he's gonna be a a handful yeah to deal with if you got a problem if you he's gonna want to fight with you and he's drunk so he's not gonna listen to reason or understand that he's hurt and stay down so that's another problem he hits the things he loves exactly i don't mean shit to this guy yeah that's could go terribly yeah yeah um so it got to the point where she was just mary was at the end of a rope. She didn't know what to do anymore. She said that at one point during this whole thing, her friends said that she started to tell them that she became angry enough to wish that he was dead. I wish he was dead. She said at one point to somebody, quote, I mean, my friends, they knew, you know, but I didn't actually talk to anybody till, you know, till 1986.

So she kept it to herself. And then in like this 86 up till April, she started talking to people about it, telling her friends about it. And they were like, dude, get the fuck away from this guy. Yeah. Take the kids and, you know, stay with me. with me stay with your mom stay anywhere but with this asshole but she you know she was afraid of him i mean that's all there is to it and a couple weeks or mid-april kind of beginning of april she had a conversation with a neighbor of hers named john edwards not that john edwards uh his his nickname he's got a nickname of course

so damn it you know and it's just perfect his nickname yeah bud okay we got hillbilly and bud john edwards john edwards john bud edwards that's definitely not the guy that talks to the dead now you're either picturing the guy who talks to the dead that fucking fraud right or the other one who left his who left his cancer cancer stricken wife for some chicken like argentina to run away with no no no that was the guy in south carolina that was mark sanford different guy he went to like go hang out in south america with his girlfriend right no no i'm talking about this he had it was one of his campaign staffers yeah there you go yeah so uh john edwards you're thinking it was both of them pocket size yeah that weird hair yeah so moved when he when he yeah yeah so either that or a guy that uh claims let's bud and john edwards both talk to the dead the same amount is the real thing

that's the thing see yes if possible yeah a man the john Edwards, talk to the dead John Edwards, is more full of shit than a man who ran for president twice, which you have to be somewhat full of shit to run for anything. So, I mean, you know, I mean, just more than your average human than to just be able to act like you're happy to be somewhere. I don't even mean in your policies. I just mean to go. So great of everyone to come out when you're just like, why the fuck am I in the middle of nowhere with you fucking hicks? This sucks. I don't want to be here. I want to fuck my campaign. I went to college.

You understand? Not me, obviously. I would assume that's what someone would think if they actually were educated. I don't know. I don't know. I can't put myself in the mind of someone who's actually done the right things in life. I really can't. I don't know what. I just think they must think like I did't know. I can't put myself in the mind of someone who's actually done the right things in life. I really can't. I don't know what.

I just think they must think like I did things right. You haven't. Somebody had a college fund. Yeah. Something. I don't know. Somebody left the house and their parents handed them a check. Or they knew how to fill out paperwork for loans.

Either one. Either way, you got me beat. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know either one of those. So a couple weeks into April, like I like i said she talks to bud bud edwards uh only thing about bud of note is uh well we'll talk about bud a little more detail but bud is a black guy which um not part of not usually part of their normal circle but he's a neighbor of theirs and he started hanging out with him so hillbilly apparently isn't real racist anyway so that's a positive i guess geography anybody could be his friend

yeah that's that's what it is he doesn't really give a shit uh but most of his friends are like hardcore rednecks so if they see him with him they're like how you doing with him you know what i mean he's just like that's my neighbor you know he doesn't kill billy doesn't give a shit so according to her uh this is what she says mary later on quote i don't know how we got started talking but i just said that sometimes i wish he was dead and bud said that he knew people that got rid of people oh but i said i didn't have that kind of money because i didn't and he said i wouldn't need money oh no wouldn't need money at all i know people that make people disappear i don't have that

kind of money she's right yeah that's the first thing she said so far that's dead on and he said you don't need that kind of money because there's other ways you can pay how's that uh we'll find out let's see here and we'll find out what ends up happening because does anything ever happen as planned in the show never never so we'll fool anybody could end up dead here. So this night, like we said, he came home with his friend. That's how we started this. Shit-faced, drinking all day, pissing every 45 minutes. He gets home. As soon as he gets home, Mary sees the headlights and grabs the kids and takes them to bed.

Smart. Kids, time to go to bed. Let's go, let's go, let's go. She can tell he's shit-faced. He's been gone all day. Swerved in the driveway. When he hangs out with that guy he's been drinking so front of the trailer yeah he shook it daddy's home is it fucking rocks back and forth go bad guys tv reception fucking came in came in goes out yeah oh i can see ah damn it tell daddy to hit the house again

so she said quote she put them to bed quote because when he was drunk like that if they would if they just made one little noise or something he didn't like he would just get it get on to them so i tried to put them to bed before he got a hold of them a hold of them yuck so she knows yeah the kids are gonna say talk and he's gonna lash out yeah um after a while his friend his drinking partner frank left and um and the after he left that's when john bud edwards so that's when bud and bud's girlfriend come over bud's got a girlfriend named sharon brown and sharon and mary are very close they talk all the time that's kind of one of her main confidants and that's kind of how Bud got looped into this conversation is

she heard about what was he heard about what was going on he knew anyway he's one of their neighbors he hangs out with them he's seen but he's seen hillbilly in action so it's not a stretch it's not like really yeah well they see those two weird when we went out to dinner the other night with them they seemed I mean they did argue about red or white wine but other than that i thought they seemed like a really good couple i don't understand she you know she was having fish i get why she wanted the white but everyone else at the table was having red sauce so you know you gotta compromise sometimes just get a glass you know i was on his side honestly but now that i see this this is terrible no i'm upset that i contributed to his drinking that beat her that night that's fucked up this

is fucked so uh that's obviously terrible so they sit around this is the two couples sitting around talking and um bill billy is still drinking pretty hard they're watching a kirk douglas movie on tv we never get to find out damn it and i have looked oh my god this was like covered in no newspapers for somehow or they're none of them are available now in the multiple newspaper archives i have access to and so i've had to dig in and find i found these really like detailed court documents from there's a lot of digging but that's how i found this case at all because it's really not out there anywhere so i couldn't find i looked everywhere for what movie

this was but i couldn't find it tv guide at that time would be nice oh i'd love august you can find it yeah why didn't i think why didn't i think to just look that up tv guide i looked for an hour and a half don't look for them to mention it you look for what's playing i wish i was here i'm sorry oh i've been so tired normally i would have thought of that i've been so tired i'm like where is this movie i was sitting at home watching tv banging my head against the wall august 20 or april 26 1986 tv guide i don't know if it could have been on a local channel that could have been on a local but it would still be on there if you were from sarasota sarasota area yeah tell me what fucking

movie that was or i can just look it up after the show by the time i post it'll be out there so don't tweet it but tweet it to me no don't do that we'll figure it out i'm gonna see i will tell tell you right when this is done we'll look look it up because I'm going to find it. So they're watching this. And apparently Hillbilly made the comment that he also had a dimple in his chin, you know, like a like a chin. Yeah. Yeah. Like Kirk Douglas. OK. He said, but you can't see it because of my big beard.

Right. I'm Hillbilly. OK. So you just have to trust me. So. Yeah. So at this point, he this is insane he starts telling everybody now kirk douglas is a real man and everybody's a pussy now and nobody's a real man anymore but

he's a real man oh boy and to prove he's a real man he's gonna fuck his wife in front of you people against her will in the living room no in front of the neighbors that doesn't show me anything that is one of the i don't know how one plus one equals yeah fucking sexually attack your wife in the living room in front of your friends like that's a that's a lot of show me your dick sir no it's a lot of math equation there that goes into that so yeah they said uh um this is from mary quote and one thing led to another and he tried to pull my pajamas off because he was going to show bud and sherry how a real man done it um that's exact words uh recorded right in front of her company uh right in front of

company he was going to do it to me and sharon she got up and she said she wasn't going to stay there and watch me be humiliated like that. Good. He wouldn't quit. And I tried to hang on. I really did. I just tried to hang on to my pajamas. And he just kept pulling them and pulling them.

God, no. So this is what I mean. This isn't funny. No. You know what I mean? Like, you fuck around as a couple where you'd be like, come on now, sweetheart. But you wouldn't actually try to fucking take their clothes off or try to was like you know and humiliate do something that you would humiliate them kirk douglas wouldn't do that you know we don't know that i'm pretty sure back then though

he probably could have and got away he could have a such a long line of people oh we have no idea but he seemed like an okay guy well but you never know like i said he'll never know you never know he could have been all over everybody with his flat top dead right yeah he just died yeah actually like last year remember when we killed him off at a live show we killed him i was like yeah kirk douglas but he's dead and we started talking to people like he's not dead hey hey oh he's not dead like half the crowd we were like he's not dead i was like get the fuck out of here i go he's got to be a hundred and we looked it up he was 102 like it was a good guess to think he'd be dead by now of all people odds are he wouldn't have made it this far you know what i'm saying

like for me to say he's dead is most of the time yeah 98 of the time i'm right on that one i'm gonna say so took a guess and really if you told me he was dead, I'd be like, yeah, he probably died around the same time Bob Barker died. Yeah. Still alive. Again, that's what I mean. We always get it wrong. We don't know who's dead or alive.

Did he finally die? No. Oh, he's still alive. Still? The guy is crushing it. He doesn't know where he is. No, he doesn't know he's alive. No, he's not sure about it, but he's still pinching asses everywhere he goes.

So, a little background on Bud here. Bud and Sharon. Now, John Bud Edwards is a guy that everybody likes. John Bud Edwards has an eighth grade education, so not real good as far as that goes, which fine. I mean, we don't know. He comes from a family with seven kids, and they were poor families, so we don't know. He comes from a family with seven kids and they were poor family. So we don't know if he had to work or we don't know what the circumstances are for that. But we do know that in 1975, a mere 11 years earlier, he was convicted for second degree murder.

Oh, wow. So, yeah, he is a convicted murderer. And he's out. And he is at this point on parole for the murder that he committed so he is a a literally a paroled murderer with an eighth grade education and he's the nice guy and you're right at this point in time and you're raping in front of him yeah and he's he's looking at you like he's looking down on you right he's judging your bullshit behavior yeah eighth grade educated murder parolee is looking at you side-eyed like this fucking scumbag think about that right that's the level of debauched shitbag hillbilly was okay all right is acting like in front of everybody you know whatever we don't know what's in his heart jimmy yeah so anyway doing it for love yeah good god and all the neighbors say bud's a great guy bud is one of the more popular guys in the neighborhood as far as people liking him

trusting him one neighbor says that uh quote but first of all there's always a bunch of fighting in the trailer park of course like literally the neighbors are always doing this. Listen to this quote from one of the neighbors. Bud was not like that. You know, quote, Bud was always the one that stopped the fighting around the court. You know, everybody was always fist fighting and getting drunk and he always stopped it. So that's who he is. But he's the guy who's like he's the voice of reason. He's going around.

Come on, guys. Come on, guys. You're fist fighting in the middle of the street in a trailer park. is i do not miss that dude they do it is constant oh it's got people shouting at other people because they're shouting inside their trailer we can all fucking hear it shut up trying to watch the show when i lived in that apartment that we first started recording in it was like it was and every night every night every night everybody's stuff it was fucking insanity outside there was people yelling and screaming and fighting and then there was like every night. Every night. Every night. It's everybody's stuff. It was fucking insanity outside. There was people yelling and screaming and fighting.

And then there was like a party in the street. And then there was fucking those dudes fucking outside my window at the one point. I'm like, what's going on out here? And I'm like, oh, my God, there's we got to move right under the fucking. Well, they were just fun. I don't care who's fucking men, women. It doesn't matter. They were fucking right under the street lamp. You could you could move up 10 feet and you're in the dark

that's on purpose those motherfuckers are trying to display themselves this is crazy this neighborhood anybody fucking in the light when you could be fucking in a shaded area where no one could see you there's something wrong there right people in my apartment fucked like clockwork once a month and they sounded like gina davis and alec baldwin pretending to be ghosts in beetlejuice what is that what are they that is that feels like it's on is she coming or haunting the house what's happening finish already jesus christ i can't sleep oh my god i should be kicking indoors trusting black telling her to shut the fuck up the fuck up so oh my god so anyway they're all sitting in here sharon brown leaves and it gets down to the three of them uh it's bud and it's

it's uh you know mary and it's Hillbilly. And he's trying. So finally, Hillbilly kind of staggered off of her and the way it was put by them staggered kind of away and stopped at that point, trying to sexually assault her. He would have had to basically beat her and attack her. And it was even a bridge too far, even for this fucking lunatic in front of somebody i guess so uh he does that mary says she was more than upset as the way she put it at this point as i don't blame her for being more than upset i'm embarrassed and attacked and all that kind

of shit so uh it's at this point that hillbilly says i want to go to the bar we're going to the bar it's 10 o'clock at night. And you just left there. Yeah, he's shit-faced, and she is not, but the kids are sleeping. So, you know, if you want to go to a bar, I guess walk or take a taxi, which you don't have money for. That's what I mean. Call a taxi or something. He wants to go to the Waterhole, which is up in Oneco, which, as I looked it up, is about 20 minutes from here.

Wow. Yeah, he's about 20 minutes away at this bar up in in oneko which was kind of in the middle of nowhere at the time so now it's filled in a lot so um he's saying that we're going to the water hall in oneko and let's go and she said i'm not fucking going to the bar with you the kids are sleeping yeah it's it's night's over like you're you've had enough you're plenty of drunk you're liquored up you know but he was out of booze so he wanted to go to the waterhole so mary said i'm not going so then he says uh you know to bud you take me let's go to the waterhole and bud's like oh no my girl just left and i gotta go see my girl you know it's she's gonna be mad if i don't go out with you where i'm gonna go you know whatever so i'll go do that so then he starts asking other neighbors

that are hanging out outside because i guess it's probably hot yeah even though it's april it's probably that's probably like a good time to sit outside your trailer in florida yeah it's probably when it's cool and it's probably a good time to sit outside your trailer because it's going to get real hot in the next couple months so late april so there's a bunch of people outside and hillbillies going around people to person to person asking people i'm going to waterhole you drive and they've all been drinking everybody around here so they're all everyone's fucking shit-faced everyone's sitting outside drinking so they're all like i'm drunk i've got plenty here i don't need to go to no bar. That's the consensus of everybody. So he finally comes back.

And this is a quote from Mary. Jesus Christ, man. This is episode 196 of Small Town Murder. We've had a lot of crazy people, people saying crazy things, people doing crazy things. Listen to this, okay? This is a top five moment here. This is Mary. Quote, and he'd come back and he told me I had five minutes to get my clothes on

and get the kids in the car or he was going to take the kids and just go. Gruesome. Take the kids. Yeah. He's going to take the kids. Right. If you don't go, I'm going to endanger the shit out of our children. Yeah, exactly. You're going to drive me or I'll take the kids. Right. If you don't go, I'm in danger of the shit. Yeah, exactly.

You're going to drive me or I'll take the kids and go crash the car in a tree because, you know, I'm too drunk to drive. Not I'll just go myself. And if I crash and kill myself, fine. I'll take the kids. What's the logic? It's to punish her. It's to make her take him. Because otherwise I'll take the kids.

And, you know, I'm too drunk and I'll crash in a goddamn tree. What do you think of that? Now you have to go. See? And she was like, Jesus Christ christ this is a fucking nightmare he's literally saying i'll hurt the kids if you don't take me to a bar pretty much what he's saying because that's more drunk to get more drunk and then i'll drive home again with the kids and probably beat you up and then yeah i'll probably be mad that you i had to watch the kids all night you weren't there so

expect a beating when i get home this is the type of life this is this is crazy so she said that i was gonna take the kids and just go quote i couldn't let my kids out the door with him and his with him and him drunk he could have killed them yes she's her whole thing is trying to protect her kids so mary said okay i'll do it so she was going to bed she's in her pajamas think Think about that. Do you drop him off there? Because you have to give him a ride home now. She was. Think about that in her pajamas, relaxing in her home, not relaxing, but in her home watching a movie.

And now all of a sudden she's got to get clothes on. She wrapped the kids up in blankets to take them and put them in the car. They have a sand colored 1975 cadillac so a fucking boat oh it's 13 years old 75 yeah it's uh a big one yeah my grandmother had like a 76 and it was it's probably longer than the trailer but it that way like if you if it's a sedan yeah it could be the coupe and even even the coupe de ville. That's what my grandmother had. It was a fucking, it was 50 feet long. Coupe just means two doors, not four.

It's still long as shit. Two longer doors. Dude, they were just two. Right. Dude, those Cadillac doors. Two doors as long as four. Yeah. Hers was two-tone green.

Hell yeah. So it had the, it was like metallic mint on top with the dark green on bottom. Money leather green seats. Stop it. Swear to top with the dark green on bottom. Money leather green seats. Stop it. Swear to God. Green on green on green. This was her prized possession. She kept it in the garage, only took it out if they were going to see the relatives to show off.

All the Italians, they moved over here. If they did even half okay, they'd all get like one nice car that they could bring to gatherings to show. Like, look at me. I'm successful. So there's all the immigrants. nice car that they could bring the gatherings to show. Like, look at me. I'm successful. Right. So there's all the immigrants. This is what they did. So, yeah, that car was it was so fucking big and it had these doors.

Yeah. It was a coupe. Yeah. And they were so long. Jimmy can open that on a New York street. Oh, God. You'll take out traffic. Two lanes of traffic. If you're downtown there, if you're like in Mulberry or something.

I slammed my hand in one of those things once. I swear it still hurts. I was like four. These fucking doors, you could hear them when they slammed. They were like, whoosh. It was like a fucking bank vault door closing. It was like a train smash. It's what it did.

It was crazy. So she, they loads the kids up in the 75 Cadillac to drive through the night. It's 10 something at night. She drives Ireland to the watering know, 10 something at night. She drives Ireland to the watering hole. To the water hole. Now, she's not dropping him off. She's got to go in and sit there with him while he drinks.

With kids in the car? With kids in the bar. Not kids in the car. They're all going to go inside and he's going to get shit-faced and then she's going to drive him home. These poor kids. They don't want to be here no so um after he comes he goes in after five minutes he comes out of the bar and says that they won't allow kids in after eight o'clock yeah because the kitchen's closed and we don't allow kids that's the law you know he's pissed though he's super mad he's fucking assholes i come here all the time

let my goddamn kids in come november we're voting this shit out yeah there's gonna be a new law about bars and kids the kids can go in bars anytime they want especially after 8 p.m they're extra allowed into bars then i'm gonna get a law on the ballot says daycare is in the bar it's in the bar right and in and bars you have to provide daycare and allow kids in anytime and they can work off the drinks that their daddy have been done drinking that's also a rule you can put them to work and it's it's it's one drink per hour of child labor so i have two kids so i can drink two drinks for free per hour they work i've done i've done did the math i've done the math and it works out it works out so he comes back out here oh my god saying okay no kids in the no kids in the goddamn place after um you know obviously after i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife.

Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye bye. and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts.

I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to

go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo

like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts the clock so they end up cutting going to the abc liquor store where he buys a bottle of liquor and a bottle of seven up okay so instead of going in the bar he's like fuck it i'll just buy liquor and drink it at home okay now on the way back he's hungry hillbilly got a hankering yeah so

he's hankering what does he want mickey dankering. What does he want? Mickey D's. Of course. Because it's open, too. And it's open. They got a drive-thru. So they go to the drive-thru of McDonald's. And he causes a scene at the drive-thru of McDonald's, Jimmy. Because he's drunk.

Hillbilly is such an asshole. Oh, my God. Shouting his order from the passenger seat. Yep. Did this bitch fucking hear me? She can hear you,billy please she didn't answer me when i said i wanted vagina on it yeah this is hillbilly uh y'all know me the usual please the huge so they were told because in rural areas where there's not a ton of orders at McDonald's,

if you order late at night, they make you go wait because they have to make it. Right. Because no one has been there for 10 minutes, so all the food would be bad. So they can only sit there for five minutes or some shit. Pull up, please. We'll get you your order. They said, no problem. Five minutes if you just pull up over there.

Well, Hillbilly was not having that shit at all y'all said fast food he pulled a jim cornett oh boy where we've talked about this jim cornett the wrestling manager if if you want some entertainment look up jim cornett dairy queen on youtube and uh just find jim cornett yelling at Dairy Queen employee who's after a wrestling show late at night. They were driving. It was the only thing open in a small town. He wants a blizzard. So he freaks out on this lady, loses his fucking mind, right?

And she says, quote, and he cussed that lady out something awful. And he said he'd just go home and I could cook. And that's fine. I just wanted to go home anyway. Why? Why is she so this poor oh my god now everything in his life that's a travesty he's got that's fine y'all out of gas i'll make her refine shit at home fucking get to work shut up stick that damn shit in the ground

and make oil come up and then refine it into a petroleum product. Cars got a quarter tank. Hurry up. Jesus fucking Christ. We drive a Cadillac. She's lazy. Cars out of gas. Lazy.

Doesn't want to refine it. That's what happened. So, yeah, it goes from I'm in my pajamas to now I have to get the kids in the car. We have to drive you to the bar. Oh, now we have to go to the liquor store. Oh, we'll stop at McDonald's. Five minutes, no problem. Okay, fine.

I'll just cook when we get home. Oh, boy. This is a nightmare of a night. And this isn't like an abnormal evening, neither. So she said, I just wanted to go home. I didn't even care. I just wanted to get out of the car, get the kids into bed. So it was about 11, 1130 when they get home, okay?

It's at this point point not the point when he was at a liquor store yeah where this product is available it is now that he goes oh i'm out of cigarettes oh no i'm out of cigarettes oh jesus so if i if you're her how do you not just go that's it i know i put up with enough i I put up with all. But for some reason, you not being smart enough to foresee you needed cigarettes and buy them at the liquor store is enough. And I'm done with you. It's fine. I'll roll them at home. Yeah, I'll just grow some tobacco and roll them for you.

And that's fine. It's ridiculous. So he told Mary to walk over to the gas station at 1130 at night to get him more i am exhausted for her so am i i want to nap yeah just from hearing about to the gas station and get me more cigarettes she's like okay i'll do it if that's what it because she keeps just keeps thinking if i do this one more thing that'll be enough and i'll leave me alone and whatever but there's just keeps being more and more and more so he gives her a 20 bill she goes up there's an alley and you walk through it so that's you want to send your wife through the fucking alley at midnight also giving me my money

back to buy this yeah and then sending me on my dangerous and then send here's something to that someone can steal from you after they murder you in the alley that's perfect thanks like you it's midnight go get your own fucking cigarettes through the goddamn alley if someone's gonna kill somebody it should be you you fucking idiot so already my money anyway she goes up through the alley to the station buys the cigarettes return safely everyone's like oh no she's gonna die in an alley that's not how this happens uh returns with 18 change cigarettes were cheap back then so when she got back um he was uh he's in the uh when she got back bud's there okay so in the car no in the in the trailer okay so she gets back and there's bud he must have been outside and he'll be like hey bud get on in here i can drink with

me i got a bottle i got cigarettes coming you want her to go out and get you anything so it's more accurate than anything. About to have a feast over here. Oh, she's cooking. You want some? When she got back, their bud's there. It's at this point that Hillbilly goes, let's go back out again. I hate him.

Don't you just want to knock him out cold and go, okay, better. Why do you have so much energy when you're drunk? That's what I mean. What have you done? This is why nobody likes him. Don't you just want to knock him out cold and go, okay, why do you have so much energy when you're drunk? That's what I mean. What have you done? This is why nobody likes him. Yeah. Nobody.

Cause he's a fucking asshole. He's just this. You know who he is? He is exactly Dwight Yoakam and Sling Blade. Yeah. He is Dwight Yoakam and Slit's exactly how he acts. Oh, we're going to have a party then. Everybody's going to lock it.

And they have to boys coming over you sit there and listen to us play our shitty music and then yell at the guys in the band for not being better and fucking push a guy in a wheelchair make everybody leave and yeah and then i won't say what he yelled at everyone when he leaves i'll keep that one to myself then i use the jim cornette one that's probably even worse i'll keep that one always bastards what does he say it's it's oh boy yeah oh yeah it's yeah he went really hard he went hard he went hard on a couple of uh groups real real bad so i'm gonna keep that one locked and loaded watch sling blades a great movie i don't think why dwight yocum is like that in real life so wonderful acting on his part but an absolute monster and this is exactly

he's doyle this is who hillbilly is so um yeah he wanted to go out again she says quote he got in his he got in his head he wanted to go out again and i said i wasn't going but he just kept right on and he said he could go without me because he had a key but he dropped it down the side of the couch and he didn't have a key ring or nothing and he just a key but he dropped it down the side of the couch and he didn't have a key ring or nothing and he just kept it and he just kept on and on who's got a loose house key loose car key car key he's got a lucy just a lucy just wanders around with the square gm yeah no key ring and he dropped it down the side of the couch and was too drunk to find it so he's like oh now i can't drive my now you're definitely driving me and she's saying no and he keeps going on and on and i'm sorry to do a southern accent

when she's quoting but it's the way she said her syntax is it's it's impossible almost i i sound like i'm making fun of her if i don't use sort of her own accent almost then it sounds like then she he did not do it sounds like i'm you know what's coming to you is not done in an in an unregional diction that's what i'm saying exactly you talk he just kept right on it sounds like he just kept right on if i say it doesn't sound right it sounds like i'm can't can't broad newscaster that yeah yeah yeah and then he kept right on he kept right on he kept right on guy doesn't he kept breaking my fucking clunes over and over again this fucking guy over he's okay gonna take me to bottom like get the fuck out of here you want to go to the bar that's the fucking car crash and die for all i give a fucking shit they don't say it yeah it's different he kept

right on he kept right on so yeah kept on and on she's visibly upset bud can see this bud's there also this poor bastard has to witness this nobody wants to see that finally she said she uh uh she just threw the keys at him and she said just go just get out go wherever i don't care uh but he wanted bud to come too hey so this whole thing happened he got the keys he's like all right bud come on bud's like um um i'm so sorry i just was outside then you i don't want to go anywhere like it's midnight you know i don't want to do anything like that so um yeah hillbilly wants bud out with him though and he does not want to go out with pill billy bud doesn't he's not into it however um mary kind of was like giving him eyes like please it'll get him away for and he apparently at that point felt bad for her and uh basically she said she just thought you know this

would be a in her mind uh she looked at it as this is a a good way to get rid of him for the night you know what i mean so this is a good time to get rid of him perfect you take him out he wants to go and he doesn't want me involved yeah please don't willingly yeah so eventually bud says all right fine i'll go with you fine so they first go to a neighborhood poker game yeah a trailer park yeah let's not call it neighborhood post midnight trailer park fucking trailer park poker game it's not good no with a guy named hillbilly and a convicted parolee murderer named bud this is this this game is that sounds terrible that's awful a humid sticky it's not a fair game somebody's someone's. Either way, the cards are sticky and it's gross.

So they go there. And then eventually, after some more drinking, Bud and Hillbilly return to the residence. So, yeah, they return there. Now, once this all happens, Jesus Christ, this is wild. jesus christ this is wild um he when before they left um he said that um basically when bud agreed to go hillbilly was starting to get aggressive toward mary as far as i'm gonna drag you you're gonna fucking go and it was all that sort of thing finally bud said he would take him but he said he had to put his shoes on first and uh um bud got up to leave to put a shoe why he came over to somebody's house with no shoes on is beyond me so um once he goes

to get it he's going to get his shoes this is when hillbilly followed him outside and called him a liar and said he wouldn't come back and he was saying you're a liar you ain't gonna come back and he followed him to the door and mary followed him out to follow it out hillbilly saying will you calm down and then hillbilly and uh and uh hillbilly and bud ended up ended up going to another person's apartment nearby and whatever mary goes back inside and bud and uh they go out okay so they're going out now when they get back, which we'll say where they went in a minute. But when they get back, Mary says that Hillbilly told me to fix him a drink. So I did. And then he got started up about wanting to go again.

And he got up and kind of staggered a little bit. I kind of caught him. I got used to that. One time I caught him and I fell over with him. He was a lot bigger than I am, but he went out the front door, the one toward the road, that's where the car was. He told me to help him get to the car. This is the next Jesus Christ.

So I did. And by the time we got to the car, he was mad at me again. Because he went through a roller coaster of emotions. Jesus Christ. And he said he would do it himself. the car he was mad at me again because he went through a roller coaster of emotions jesus christ and he said he would do it himself he asked her to take him to the car and he's like get off man i don't need your help you okay yeah i was inside yeah i was happy to be inside and uh he said and i opened the the door and he got in and i shut the car door and i gave him his glass i think so he took his mixed drink in a glass with him in the car shit-faced he's already drunk there we go yeah here you go sweetheart and gives him a glass in

there fingers crossed he runs that shit into a canal yeah she said i gave him a glass i think then she says no i gave him a bottle no not a glass damn thing bottle he left the glass he didn't want it he said he was going to drink it straight so he's like i don't need that that's for pussies i'll take the bottle so he's gonna cruise down the road in a giant cadillac swigging from a fucking liquor bottle just like kirk douglas just exactly like kirk douglas swaggering around you fucking know a man oh he's a man just that's what kirk douglas did yeah got drunk and pillaged and then tried to rape his wife in front of people jumped in the car with a bottle of j and b that's how it worked so um yeah uh he ends up uh he here bud ends up out

there again okay so she sees that and he hillbilly yells to her to bring Bud out a drink. Bring Bud out a drink. So she brought a drink out, gave it to him. He was sitting on the hood of the car. He didn't get in the car. He was just sitting on the hood of the car while Bud was inside the car. And he walked around to the side of the trailer. He was in the car.

He was in the car. So I meant Bud's on the hood. He then he starts walking away. Mary goes back to her apartment, and that's when she could hear Hillbilly yelling for Bud to come back again. It's just this fucking nonstop shit.

She said she could hear the car door shut, but she didn't recall whether she heard it start or not. She just heard a car door shut, and she didn't know if Hillbilly got out or Bud got in

or what the fuck happened. She said she went in, shut the the door put the chain lock on so bud wouldn't come home that night hopefully unless he broke the door down which sometimes you just go sleep in the car or something sleep it off and then she said she laid down on the couch and dozed off okay imagine that that sleep must have been all she did was exhale and then she woke up that's what i'm saying so now bud and hillbilly are out yeah so they are out and there's a couple guys named jeffrey burrell um who's actually known as jeffrey walters throughout this entire case as we'll find out and he's got an aka here so jeffrey walters he and james norman oh you know what he's

probably just got a huge cock and goes by burl like milton but it's probably like the baseball player i thought like he always shows it so they just call him burl hey i'm a big cock so him and james norman went to the quick stop gas station around midnight on april 26th while getting gas they uh because they had gone out to get to pick up a tv set yeah at midnight in the fuck is happening there's that's this this is the area we're dealing with this is a place where people go to quote pick up a tv set at midnight shithoused you don't get a major electronic component at midnight usually it's just not normal no and that's that's an expenditure uh that generally doesn't i mean that's a that's a 10 a.m to 1 p.m that's a sunday afternoon purchase saturday saturday at two purchase

go out and find out about the new ones yeah yeah get some information i gotta i gotta take some pamphlets home hold on i'm gonna i'm gonna look this one over. Yeah. So, yeah, they went out to get a TV. And Norman, one of the guys there, Norman and Walters, Norman had been drinking that night. He had had, quote, a few six packs of beer. Good Christ. These people are fucking animals. He drinks so hard. Fucking animals.

Fucking animals. And while they were there, they saw a hillbilly in an old, what they described as an old gold Cadillac, which is exactly what he has. Now, hillbillies in the passenger seat, not driving. Got it. Which is good for everybody. Finally made a mature decision. Yeah. Bud's way less shit face than him, if that's who this is, because we don't know. Mary, last she saw bud he was

sitting on the hood of the car with a drink in her hand she heard a door shut but that was all she ever heard so uh we don't know there there's hillbilly and an unknown to these two guys black guy okay so um they that's all they see so uh he he said hi to them because they know bud or they know hillbilly hillbilly said hi to walters norman there and uh in the driver's seat they said was a heavy set black man with a round face and uh norman was leaning on the car like kind of leaning in talking to lean in his not with his head in like a cop kind of leaning his elbow on it talking to hillbilly and he said he paid little attention to the black guy because he didn't know him and um yeah who knows so anyway um they're

there uh doing this they're talking uh the other guy here the walters guy he came back out of the store and he described it described him as a black male with short, dark hair, dark eyes, and a large, round face. So, heavyset black guy, you know, is the basic description here. So, Hillbilly yelled something out to James Norman, and Walters glanced over at the car for what he said was three to four seconds, dividing his glance between Hillbilly and whoever the driver was. So, at most, he looked at the driver for two seconds from across a parking lot at midnight. Might have been faster, because it takes a second to recognize.

Is that? Exactly. That's hillbilly. I don't know. Exactly. You spend less time figuring out people you don't know, because that doesn't register. It's just how your brain works.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So Norman said he knew Ireland, Hillbilly Boyd, and later on he will end up knowing Bud because he worked with Hillbilly and later on will work with Bud at the Murphy's Roofing Company. So, yeah, they're roofers. Fuck. Trailer park roofers. Tough life. It's a tough life down in Florida, too.

That's some hot roofing. Oh, my. You want to talk about hot tar? Yeah. That's some hot gotta heat it up you hit it up just right out of the bucket so uh they worked together a little bit and uh he knew him as bud obviously and uh anyway they end up going back to the trailer now back at the trailer this is where a neighbor hears some commotion uh a neighbor named uh paula uh paula van wormer and her son who's a 12 year old boy both hear some ruckus they hear quote you're a liar look at that you're locking the door you're going in you're not taking me anywhere and it was hillbilly screaming to somebody and throwing his hands up in the air.

They said they could see out the window and walking back toward his trailer. Now, Paula said she went outside and talked to Bud, who was out there at that point. And then Bud went inside his house. And this Glenn Van Wormer, the kid, he said when he was lying in bed around 2 a.m., he looked out his window, saw a truck pull up, and heard someone say something like, come on, hillbilly. And then he said that hillbilly got into the back of the truck

and it left. So that's what the kid saw at 2 o'clock in the morning, which is like an hour and a half after the mother and the mother saw hillbilly saying, you're locking the door, blah, blah, blah. And then because she went outside and hillbilly was back in his place already she talked to bud bud went back inside hillbilly was back inside and then by two o'clock he's out yelling at somebody else oh damn it and then it's or i'm sorry not yelling but he's leaving in a truck someone's saying come on hillbilly and he's getting he gets in the back of a truck. In the bed. Classy. Yeah. All class.

I got this. I'll be back here. Yeah. So April 27th, the next morning, two fishermen that are by a drainage ditch in Sarasota trying to find a place to fish, they find a body. Oh, that's not good. They find a body and they pull it out and it's hillbilly oh no they find hillbilly uh the autopsy is conducted the cause of death was brain injury due to a skull

fracture due to blunt force trauma they said that it would have taken at least five blows with a heavy object to do what this did basically a big fucking hole in his skull so yeah his blood alcohol level was 0.207 too that was deceased too i mean it dropped some so that was that's a wild amount of alcohol he was drinking so the next day um they call mary yeah and they ask her to come down and identify if it's hillbilly she goes down to identify the body and uh she tells police that she hadn't seen him since she saw him leaving a truck that's what she said had didn't see him since then last night so she said that uh she didn't know he was didn't this was the first time she found out he was dead she found out from

detective marquee uh who she said she didn't believe him and first time she found out he was dead she found out from detective marquee who she said she didn't believe him and did not want to believe him at first she said it was not unusual for him to stay out all night drinking and it wasn't unusual for him to leave with people she didn't know in the middle of the night so she it was normal for her to hear a commotion look outside and see him getting in the car with someone she didn't know at three in the morning shit face that was normal and he come home two days later that is shocking it's just disturbing so anyway she said this isn't so she didn't know she said when he did not show up sunday morning she wasn't worried because quote he always found his way home again which is what you say about a cat yeah it's exactly what oh they always find she always finds her way home

exactly what you say about a stray cat that you've taken in. It's a dog in rural West Virginia. It's a pet. He'll follow the crick. Don't worry about it. It's all right. He'll find it. He knows where the food is.

He knows it. So she marquee here, the detective told her she needed to go to the hospital and identify the body. So Mary went and got Sharon Brown and asked her to accompany her. Will you drive me there? And, you know, it's tough. So she said when she saw Hillbilly's body, it came as a big shock to her. She didn't expect it to really be him.

Over the next few days, Sharon Brown stayed with Mary most of the time, taking care of her, taking care of the kids, cooking the meals for the kids, just keeping the house running while Mary tries to put her, you know, I mean, even if you hate the guy, it's like there's a lot going on. There's a lot of moving parts,

so it's nice if Sharon's a good friend, she's taking care of her. Now, Mary was shaken up. She said she really needed the help and all this sort of shit. Mary saw Bud the next day, the Sunday, working on his car with another neighbor and just you know dicking around under the hood since sharon was fixing meals for mary's family bud

would come over to eat with them sure she was that was just it's just the way it was because she was already cooking i'm gonna go home and cook another meal now so if i'm cooking once everyone's fucking eating it come over here and eat with us exactly so he would go there mary uh the the funeral for bud is going to be or i'm sorry for hillbilly is going to be in kentucky where he's from oh christ yeah with his family up there so mary has to drive to kentucky for hillbilly's funeral yeah and she was accompanied by sharon brown and another friend from the neighborhood kenny hall so they all who knew hillbilly. So they all take a trek up to Kentucky. Yeah.

Oh boy, up to Kentucky. Jesus. So, yeah. Now, she, before they leave, though, she talks to detectives because they want to obviously know

some information from her. She's going to be the last person to see him and all that kind of shit. So this detective, Detective Skeens, she, he, basically was accusing Mary of the whole thing really to the point where she he she was almost convinced that she killed him and blocked it out

herself yeah she's like because he said you sure he didn't kill him and block it out and if you notice that's a lot of confessions yeah like maybe i could have killed him and blocked it out for god because after eight hours of fucking people who know how to psychologically fuck with you it starts to become plausible where you're like oh my god could i have done that maybe that's what happened so she said she was so fucked up in the head about it when she went home she had to check under her sofa to see if there was a bloody lug wrench or something there to make sure that she didn't do it and she said once she checked under the sofa she knew she didn't do it and she said once she checked under the sofa she knew she didn't do it she knew this guy was fucking with her head and

she got her head back together but she was in such a weird place anyway and she's so kind of suggestible to begin with and then this guy comes in and he made everything her fault so it's very easy for her to make it feel like it's her fault yeah so a couple days later you got walters and norman the two other guys who saw them at the quick stop. Now, Walter speaks with that same detective and gives him the following description of the black man he saw in the car. Round, almost chubby face, short, dark hair, dark eyes. I believe Norman will call him a fat slob. His exact word is he was a fat slob so that's that's how he's described

to the cops you imagine right so he says quote his cheeks were a little darker as in his as in his as in sideburns his cheeks were a little darker as inside can you just say he had sideburns yeah his cheeks were darker because it was hair on them right that's what he said he had a beard so you know on his head it wasn't the same color as his face because it was like a different uh because his you know like me my skin white but my hair is red which is weird it is not white hair like it should have like a like a carpet uh it's strange on top but it grew from his scalp right it's true i have it too it's weird right my daddy had it my brother had it come to think of it my mama had it too oh christ it's a disease i think everybody i've ever known has had oh my god us poor bastards yeah so he says his quote his cheeks were a little

darker as in sideburns but i did not see sideburns okay it's just that he may have sideburns okay so maybe he has just a dark possible sideburns yeah we have a possible everybody apb possible sideburns possible not positive uh uh chubby black guy possible sideburns well that's narrows it down perfect the fuck kind of goddamn description is that right so, yeah, he is placed in a room, Walters is, on May 6th, and we'll talk about that in a little bit here, where they bring in seven men and do a lineup. And we'll talk about this. They talk to them. When they're interviewed initially, Norman and Walters, they talk to Norman for about 45 minutes to an hour, and Walters was in there for a considerably longer time. Norman was upset because the detective

was making him feel like he was under suspicion because, you know, no one else saw this guy, and now he's fucking dead. So you're saying, I'm the last guy to see him alive? Nope, me and this guy were, you know? We're going to have a long talk then. Yeah, we're going to talk about that. Let's chat a bit.

So they have reason to suspect them when they do. They think they have their culprits is what they're looking at. They're talking to him about everything. When did you see? What did you see? Then they go to talking about Bud. What do you know about Bud Edwards? You know anything about him?

That's it so they said that uh uh the guy said that there was kind of uh you know they the cops seem to have common knowledge of who bud was and what hillbilly did in the situation so they it just seemed like they were asking normal questions about people he knew and shit like that so they're brought back a few days later for the lineup and norman knew there was going to be a lineup because, quote, they knew that Bud was going to be in the lineup, Norman said, quote, because they told me he was. Oh, no. So the cops told him, basically, we're going to put that Bud guy in the lineup. And, you know, so he'll be in there.

What the fuck? So if that's the guy you pick out, then we got the right guy because he's saying, I don't know that guy, but I know of him. And then later on, he'll end up working with him. Like he knows him right then from working with him because he Bud just starts work right then with Norman. So he's like, I know that Bud guy from work, but I don't know him from from there from murder. So he's like, you know, OK, so you don't know him for murder. Yeah. So then they said, well, he's going to be in the lineup. He's like, OK, well, that's going to be the guy I recognize because I know him.

Right. Basically. I don't know any, you know, whatever. So they asked, could you pick him out of a lineup? And he said, yeah, I've been working with him for like three fucking days. Yeah. Obviously, I've spent 24 hours with him in the last three days. Especially if he's still wearing the roofing uniform.

Yeah. We're doing eight-hour shifts together. I could pick him out of a fucking lineup no problem he said you know i know him i'm working with him all week and he said quote i'm not going to be any good anyway because i can tell you right now who he is so like why would you have me pick him out of a fucking lineup i know who he is just tell you who he is so norman said the black man in the car with ireland boyd could have been bud he said or it could not have been Bud. Not sure.

It was dark and I didn't know him at the time. So I'm 2 a.m. And it's late. And we had been drinking and all this type of shit. And I glanced in. I didn't wasn't paying attention to him. A few six packs. Yes.

Not just drinking. Yeah. I'm ossified. He did say, though, that initially his initial description was of a, quote, big fat slob. And he said that later on, in comparison, knowing Bud now, the guy in the car was probably heavier than Bud because he does it because they said, well, is Bud a big fat slob? And he said, no, I don't look at I don't think Bud's a big fat slob. But the guy in the car is a big fat slob. Just so you know.

guy in the car is a big fat slop just so you know so uh walters now this is the this is the guy who came out from getting more beer and did a three to four second glance divided between the two norman was the one leaning in the window so if the guy leaning in the window couldn't identify him the guy glancing for three to four seconds zero chance zero chance And we'll talk about how horrible stranger identification, like the actual percentages and how basically if you see a stranger do something, you will not know who that is. Never. If they put a bunch of people who look nothing like them together, you will. But if you put a bunch of people together, you're going to be wrong. Probably.

It's a crapshoot. Your brain does not process that information well. It doesn't do it. It doesn't file your shit right unless it was a mad personal crime or they're right in front of your face you will never forget that face but if they're just robbing a convenience store and you might see it and you might mix it up too because that's the thing people go i'll never forget that face you fuck up a lot though that's the thing people do forget that face a lot because you're you think you you got it in your brain

you're not going i'm not sure but your brain is connecting things that don't connect because that's what your brain tries to do it connects things so as much as you think you know what you remember it's the what's the fucking effect yeah the butterfly effect no the goddamn when you are positive you've seen something that doesn't exist the shazam thing everybody thinks that's what i mean it's that your brain is telling you no i saw it well it doesn't exist. It's the Shazam thing. Everybody thinks. That's what I mean. It's that. Your brain is telling you, no, I saw it. Well, it doesn't fucking exist. So I guarantee you, you didn't. It's the same thing.

Right. But you'll fight to the death that you did. Nelson Mandela. Mandela effect. Jesus Christ. I'm so tired. I get it. Fuck me.

All right. I don't know how I pulled that out. Thank you for that, Jimmy. Good job. If you asked me who was the leader in africa five minutes ago who went to jail imprisoned and yeah was that no am i close is it we'll get back to it in five minutes and we'll ask you and we'll see how bad you don't get it right so he said he had no reason to pay attention to either one of them hillbilly or bud and he quote barely looked at the driver

noticing only his large round face and his short hair. He says, I didn't even notice his facial features. Just glance, round face, short hair, don't know him. He said the encounter was of no importance to him. It was just running into a guy at a gas station and saying, what's up? And some guy who you didn't know was driving. You don't look into that and go,

I gotta find out what the fuck they're doing. You don't care, especially if you've had a few six-packs that's such a crazy description of night just a few six-packs you know what so now within the next day or two after the encounter though walters hears and reads that hillbilly has been killed so now it occurs to him that he might have seen something important he's like oh shit was that guy in the car because i think that was the night i saw him don't know because i had a few six-packs he said that you know he didn't call the cops or anything to talk to them he just thought you know if they come to me i should tell them this yeah that's basically what happened there so well that's when april 29th is when they were interviewed and all that.

They give a sketchy description of the guy like we talked about. Sure. A round faced, short haired black man. And that's all. Now, when they show him the lineup, we'll talk about that in a second. He first tells them he doesn't recognize anyone. OK, he goes, I don't recognize anybody in that lineup. Yeah.

Right. So this was a few days after the murder. So he doesn't recognize anyone. Okay. He goes, I don't recognize anybody in that lineup. Yeah. Right. So this was a few days after the murder. So he doesn't recognize anybody in the lineup, but then they bring him back again. And then he recognizes him. This is after a newspaper had come out saying that Bud's been arrested. It says 1975 killer arrested in sex crime, as we'll talk about in a minute why that is so now mary could that's what this guy saw now he recognizes him all of a sudden so mary comes back from kentucky when she comes back from kentucky she goes right to the sheriff's department

like she said she was going to goes to talk to the detective when she got there the detective who had gone to the funeral as well to talk to the family, had not come back yet. His flight was delayed in Atlanta. So she spoke with a detective, Fleeman, and another detective, not Marquis, who was the original. So they began to tape record her statement at about 7.30 p.m. She says later on that she doesn't specifically recall that, but there is a transcript of it and everything else. recall that but there is a transcript of it and everything else and during this transcript and we'll we'll get into this here she says uh well a lot of different things first of all she said that uh uh there were a lot of people who knew because she had told them that she wished that hillbilly

was dead so she goes a lot of people might tell you that and then she also said that there's also a lot of people have i've heard that want him dead so like i wanted i wanted him dead and so did everybody else so i mean you know take a fucking number on who wants to kill hillbilly basically so then she said she thought that quote she would be it would be so much better off if he was just dead because divorcing him wouldn't have helped he would have just taken the kids and then you know tortured them for years so she said she never intended for anyone to actually kill hillbilly though um therefore when she turned up dead when he turned up dead she was afraid the police would think that she killed him that's how it worked um so may 4th 1986 is when they arrest Bud based on a description. Kind of a sort of a description.

Kind of just a black fat slob, give or take sideburns. That's it. That's what it is. It's like a fucking short order breakfast thing here. Yeah. It's a short order order. That's exactly like that. Slob, give or take sideburns.

Small coffee. Hold the burns or don't Hold the burns or don't. Hold the burns or don't and put a little lard on it. All right. Extra or light onions. Your call. Your call. So they arrest him for first degree murder and criminal conspiracy.

So, yeah. Now, Mary's story at this point, he says that she says Bud came back to the apartment after she had, you know, they had left and he had driven apparently because she said that he came back and gave her keys. what did Edward say when he came back that night? Did he tell you that you wouldn't have to worry about Hillbilly anymore? And she said, no. And the detective said, he didn't say that? And she said, no, he just told me that he left him somewhere. He said, I just left him somewhere.

He's being an asshole. Here's the keys. So that's what she says to the detective, which everybody else has probably done too. The detective said, he didn't say that you wouldn't have to worry about him anymore. He says it again. And she says, why would he have said that i would have known something was wrong at that point and i would have probably called the police is what she said so that's her initial statement okay now um okay uh like i said she goes to the funeral when she was before that she told him that the police should get back with them right when she got back and all that sort of thing.

She said, quote, and I talked to him, the detective, for a while. And I asked him then if I did get arrested, was I going to be arrested right then? And the detective told her, no, not right now, if you do. So that's when she went back to Sarasota and all that sort of shit here. So eventually, though, that night when she's talking to the police so the statement starts at 7 30 all this stuff happens the uh detective marquee arrives back from the airport and talks with her for a little while and then they arrest mary at 11 30 that night well they arrest her as well um yeah she told the officers you know exactly what i told you the description of what happened so later on a couple days later

her story's a little different slightly different now she says something woke her up and she went to the door after hillbilly had left with bud and everything like that she said that bud came in handed her the car keys now her statement is that he said quote you don't have to worry about him anymore he won't be bothering you anymore. That's what she said, which she didn't say at first. That's what the cop said. Remember that? That's in the transcript.

And then the next two days later, now she says this. So she also says that he says, quote, and then it was time for me to pay off my part of the bargain. Yeah. no money. Remember? Yeah. So she said that she knew what he meant, but she didn't want to do that. She said, quote, I think I was scared by that time. So I just I just did what he wanted.

So now she says that she and Bud had sex on the couch for a few minutes. Casey Anthony style. Yeah. Yeah. And then. Yeah. Jesus. Dead baby DNAna on you it's disgusting so after she said after it was over with he left so that's her second story now none

of that came up the first time not once nothing she she was like what are you talking about no of course he didn't say that like none of that shit so the next day um like we said then she had identified the body and all sorts of shit like that. She says later on that she only told police that he left in a truck and she didn't see him again because she was scared. She said, quote, I was afraid I would end up dead or worse or my kids would. I don't I don't know just what I was afraid of. I just thought it was a good idea at the time, but it didn't work out that way. So she was like, I was just trying to cover it up i just didn't want anything to happen because i

figured whoever killed him is going to kill me too so that's what she says so she said that she told police or initially she left that he left at a pickup at 1 30 or 2 in the morning then later on she said she made up the story about the truck by the way that's the same story at 2 a.m that that kid told as well right remember that yeah yeah she's he said back of a pickup truck come on hollywood all that shit so hillbilly hillbilly hollywood what i call them all hulk hogan damn it so according to her damn you so according to her you better than i ever listened to my ex that's perfect yeah we have a better relationship than you had with your ex-wife let's be honest here there was never a time that she'd stop a story and go, why did I think that? I'd be like, I don't know why you said it in the first place.

That's what I mean. We have a much better relationship than any ex-wife relationship. If we could tolerate having sex with each other, the world would be our fucking oyster. You know what I mean? But unfortunately, we find each other physically repulsive because it's just not how our brains work i was blown away that you asked the question and i had the answer i love it that was wonderful hollywood hulk hogan oh yeah where did i get that from like why hollywood i get it starts with an h but hillbilly hollywood still not right nailed it yeah so hillbilly jim over here so uh so hollywood in the back of the back of the pickup truck she said that she made

all that up on her second thing and she said she was scared of bud now now she said she's scared of bud when he first came back that night and was scared for the next couple days but then he just acted like he always did so she was less afraid in the days that followed now she could tell the truth you know that he was a murderer so uh may 6th is the second lineup where walters uh had previously told them he didn't recognize anybody remember that but now that the newspapers come out with him on the cover now he recognizes him in the lineup but he said he only didn't he only said he didn't recognize him at first because he's on probation in new york and he's not even supposed to be in florida so he didn't want to get involved in the case so he said i didn't recognize him but now i thought about it and

you talked me into it now i'll pick him out of the lineup even though i've already seen him on the front page of a fucking newspaper story is an onion it's yeah it's insane this is insane it's a roll from new york this is nuts i didn't know they grew onions in florida but apparently they fucking do so then uh it's at that point that that she picks john edwards out of a lineup picks bud out of a lineup and uh mary is arrested as well as we said here so she's sitting in county jail and she makes a statement to a defense investigator not her attorney attorney's investigator a guy named keith. She said that if Bud walks, quote, they're going to fry me.

I'm the only one left, whether I did it or not. She also said to this guy, quote, they've got to name somebody and they haven't got anybody else. They're running out of people. And yeah,

that's how she felt at the time. She felt like they were just trying to, they don't know what happened and they're going to pin it on her because that makes sense that she hired Bud. It wouldn't make sense for Bud to do it on his own. That's not as much of a thing. But if she's in it too, now it makes sense.

Or Bud did this for a quickie on the couch. Yeah. Or a hillbilly, literally a hillbilly, jumped in the back of a pickup truck, shit ass drunk, went around a corner and rolled out and smashed his head five times. It was definitely a five blow. Right in the examiner it's a it was a fucking on purpose thing but he might have went out with a bunch of people yeah talked a bunch of shit smacked somebody's fucking girlfriend or something next thing you know fucking wrench to the back of the head fuck this asshole dumping him over where's the mcdonald's window girl that's what i'm saying

this too well you know what we didn't talk to her no she might be the one suspect not sure is jim cornette around it could be him also we don't know so june 29th 1986 uh this is uh bud is actually indicted on these charges same thing prosecutors are going for the death penalty really oh yeah this is kind of a limp case for a death penalty think about there is zero physical evidence yeah there is uh a a revised testimony right a revised statement from the wife yeah who is completely said the complete opposite thing the second time is the first time which was influenced by the police officer sure and two guys who quote barely looked at him picked him out of a lineup after they saw him in a newspaper with a weak ass description yeah or one guy picked him out of a lineup after they saw him in a newspaper.

With a weak ass description. Yeah. Or one guy picked him out and the other guy goes, yeah, I work with him. I know him. And they were still like, you can still pick him out. And he's like, why? I know him. There he is.

I mean, I could draw him for you. I know what he fucking looks like. He told me who I'm looking for. Here's a picture of us together. Is that good enough? I know the fucking guy. So, yeah, this comes out now at trial here like i said they're going for the uh the death of penalty uh now um during this whole thing mary by the way is going to plead guilty in exchange for her testimony against bud wow uh she is sentenced to

i guess you ma'am i hate to do this this because if anyone deserved to kill this fucking guy, it was her. I'm not sure she did it, though. Twelve years in prison she gets for that. Lord. So there's that right before the whole thing. Now, the only defense that they really have here, because it's hard to defend something that's kind of nebulous like this,

you know, like how do you defend it? I was home asleep. Well, okay your your girlfriend was sleeping so she doesn't know if you were there there's no it's all mushy so the main defense witness is glenn van wormer who was the young man yeah he's an 11 year old boy who lived in the trailer court there and his mother paula paula testified that after the card game at bj's broke up because she was in that card game that we talked about she went back to her trailer that's when she heard hillbilly Boyd screaming and cursing

at Bud when she looked outside she saw hillbilly and she saw Bud walking through the alley toward his own apartment and she said that uh quote evidently Bud had promised to take him to the water hole and he was saying you blah blah blah blah, blah, you blah, blah, blah. You're a liar. Look at that. You're locking the door. You're going in. You're not taking me anywhere. So, yeah, she said when Hillbilly got done cursing, he threw up his hands, walked back toward the house.

That's when she felt safe enough to walk outside and go knock on Bud's door and talk to him. She said that Bud was upset. And she said, quote, that he was, quote quote uh was upset and he's not used to that you know bud was always the one that stopped the fighting around the court everybody was always fist fighting and he always stopped it so that's that's her that's him he's the calm guy so she was like no he's not used to people attacking him so she said she talked with him for about 15 minutes went back into the apartment there went back into her trailer and then her son two o'clock in the morning two hours later um right before to said that he was lying on the couch which is his bed right uh he's they got one bedroom and uh he says that the the he uh through

the window the window was open he said he saw a truck pull out and heard someone say come on hillbilly and hillbilly jump into the back of the truck and when he saw hillbilly leaving the truck he said he didn't think anything of it at the time because everyone around here is fucking drunk and crazy that's normal for my place yeah he said he saw a truck pull out and that was that and so he said that he could not recall the color of the truck but he did notice that it had a roll bar on the back yeah so he said that he could not recall the color of the truck, but he did notice that it had a roll bar on the back. Yeah. So he got that much specifically.

At night, it's hard to see colors, too, especially if you're looking at a screen. And there must be a screen or else he'd be, I don't know, just taken by insects, probably carried back through the fucking window in a Florida trailer court. So November of 86, they have jury selection. And that's a little bit of an interesting thing. They offer John a deal at this point. But they offer him to plead guilty. And in exchange, they'll take the death penalty off the table. And he's like, you don't have any fucking evidence.

Like, I'm not pleading this shit. We're going to trial here. So in the jury, the first group of 14 jurors was examined by counsel. And before this examination, but before the examination of the second and third groups, because it's the first one of 14 jurors was examined by counsel and before this examination but before the examination of the second and third groups because it's the first one obviously defense counsel after the examination of the first group moves for a mistrial already before they haven't even selected a fucking jury yet they're a third of the way through it on the ground that the court refused to allow him to ask the jurors any questions concerning burden of proof presumption

of innocence or the defendant's right not to testify because the the judge says well that's all in the law so you don't have to ask them are you going to follow the law that's the law they're going to fucking listen to what we say that goes without saying and he's like yeah but i want to make sure where their head's at yeah they go well you can't ask him that because that is a waste of time and uh yeah so um which you want to find out will you hold it against the guy for not testifying yeah you know if you go well no if the person knows anything they go well no because i mean it's whatever legally is better for him he's going to do no matter how innocent or guilty he is it doesn't matter let me ask it when there's no

fucking evidence how do you feel about that yeah is that bad yeah i'd love to ask somebody that do you do you feel that they need to have how much evidence do you know about shadow of a doubt shadow reasonable or anything like that so the defense tries to exclude jeffrey walters as a witness because uh they say his identification was horse shit he didn't see anything he said i well the first line it's his lineup identification they want him and they said well he didn't pick him out of the lineup. He said, I don't recognize anyone the first time. Then when he saw his picture in the newspaper, he went back and picked him out of a lineup. The same.

It's like that's not a that's not a witness. So they the whole thing is they say you can't allow that and you can't allow him in the court to do that because that's where it comes from. And the trial, the court rules that that is admissible and he can testify so the the trial is in november of 86 it lasts four days main witnesses are jeffrey walters uh the quick stop guy and mary boyd who will say that she quote hired bud for whatever reason so uh walters here he says that uh they talk about walters and they tried to exclude him like we said he gave his testimony and uh on on cross he said quote they said that he he acknowledged that he barely looked over and then he said quote i just glanced over

and uh he said i just noticed the outline of his face he had a large face dark eyes short dark hair so on cross they say now when you looked up at the two people in the car were you really being very you weren't really being very attentive were you and he said no i wasn't and he said i mean there was no reason to pay attention to them was there and he said no there wasn't so how the fuck would you identify them then and Okay, case closed. So he says that the only thing that stood out in his mind was the driver, aside from the fact that he was black, was that he had a round face. So he said, yeah, I knew he was black. That stood out.

And he had a round face. Other than that, I don't know. So they said, in fact, the only recollection you have of that person is the outline of his face. Isn't that right? And he said, yes. They said, and you never saw or paid attention to the least of the least a bit of attention to his features such as his mouth nose his chin or anything like

that did you and he said no i didn't he's marissa tomei i could go now i could go now yeah obviously you don't need me he said can you recall the descriptions of these men and he said just one he said okay what do you uh okay and why do you recall the particular description he said because i had seen him somewhere before and he said are you talking about where where did you realize you'd seen him before he goes uh not at first when he saw him uh later on in the newspaper he saw but then he it occurred to him that it might have been the quick stop guy and he's sure. So that's when he went back and whatever. He said no one suggested to him that this person was somebody he'd seen before.

And other than the fact that he'd seen him before, there was nothing about the lineup that was weird. So he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Cross-examination, they do have a ball with them. He's saying, do you recognize the man sitting here today as the man you saw in the mugshot? And he said, yes, I do. He said, do you recognize him as the man you saw in the lineup yes i do one of uh one of the men that you saw and he said yes i do he said mr walters you can't possibly recognize this man as the man you saw in the big brown car last night can you and he said that night can you and he said just his facial

features which is not an identification it's terrible he said well you just told me you didn't see his features now you're talking about the outline of his face and he said yes the guy was just like my ladies and gentlemen fuck your mother i'm sitting down i don't know what else to say would you convict yourself on this yeah on redirect though he says that his eyes were dark that he knew so on recross he says would you acknowledge that most black men have dark eyes yeah he goes yeah okay then that's it's not like you know he was an irish guy with jet black eyes right red hair white skin jet black eyes that would have stood out right you know black guy blue eyes black guy blue eyes that stands out stick around a while sticks out yeah so yeah

large face that's all he would say so um he says, so now, Mr. Walters, you're sitting in this courtroom today, and it's your testimony, is it not? I love when they, that's when you know you're fucked. You're setting me up good. They're ringing a good argument. It's your testimony, is it not, that the man sitting at the table, Bud Edwards, is the man that you saw in the car? And he said, yes, sir, I believe it was.

After all that. Yes, sir. He goes, and isn't it also a fact that you never saw the facial features of the man, the black man in the car, aside from the round face? Isn't that true? And he said, yes, it is. So in two answers, he said, I definitely know it's him. And yes, all I saw was a round face, complete opposite.

And then this guy said, I don't know what the said. I quit. Yeah, I'm going to go run a hot dog stand because my head's going to explode. So Norman, they say, you worked with him for the next week. And he said, yeah. And they said, well, what kind of guy was he? He said, Bud always seemed like a mellow type guy. I mean, he didn't say much to anybody, just did his work.

So they said, but you didn't recognize him? And he said, no. So Mary Boyd comes up. And now when they ask her, Mary Boyd says that she doesn't remember saying that she didn't, that Bud didn't tell her that first conversation. Yeah. So he says that. Yeah. Yeah. So he says that. Yeah. But the detective testifies that prior to the interview, Mary Boyd never told him that he said anything to the effect of you. You won't have to worry about hillbilly anymore. So the detective acknowledged that he thought that it might have been something that he, quote, threw in there suggested because that's exactly what the transcript said and that she picked up on and just latched onto it because that's what people do that's what humans do so she he says that i might have done that she he testified that mary was is an extremely emotional person and was very distraught and seemed confused

at the time anyway so this could have very easily happened she could have very she almost was convinced that she killed the guy that's how emotionally you know just distraught she is at the time she's looking for tire iron yeah under the furniture if you throw something out she might think that i think that or did he say that i must have thought that that's you know it's like a comic going is that did i write that or did i hear that did i hear that somewhere i didn't hear that right feels too easy it feels too easy so yeah they said that they taped the statement that all comes in the defense witness is glenn uh van wormer like we said he says that he watched the whole thing and um you

know the mother testifies the same thing we said she he saw him come on hillbilly hops in a goddamn pickup truck speeds off into the hillbilly night so um But they also say that over the course of interviewing him for a couple hours, he said that it might have been Sunday night after Boyd was already dead because he saw the truck but remembered missing school the following day. But this is months later. So he's like, might have been that night. But if he remembered someone saying, come on, hillbilly, then it was probably when hillbilly was not dead already. they still tried to impeach it with that it was very weird closing

argument prosecutor says to the jury he argued he's this is the prosecutor right he says quote and why is jeff walters testimony so important he's the witness who didn't witness anything right he said because it's extremely damaging to the defendant who's sitting right over there because it corroborates the testimony of mary boyd obviously then the prosecutor felt that chef walter's identification here and his testimony this is going to be the closer now it couldn't be just mary boyd saying it because you can't have an uncorroborated testimony from a co-conspirator that's not that doesn't hold in court that's literally you need to have corroboration you can't just have uncorroborated that's why somebody's saving their own skin

exactly sammy the bull had to have proof of this shit he had to get tapes of this shit he couldn't just be like john guy told me to kill everybody and they were like lock him up he had to get proof of it all yeah and then testify to it on top of it that's how it worked so then the uh the trial court instructed that quote you should use great caution relying on the testimony of a witness who claims to have helped the defendant commit a crime there you go this is particularly true when there is no other evidence tending to agree with the witness that said that says about the defendant so yeah there's you know you need to have it corroborated so the jury jury deliberations, they deliberate for two hours.

Then they ask, can we review the testimony of Jeff Walters and Mary Boyd? They want to look it over. The court discussed the matter with the counsels and said that it would take a lot of time to prepare the transcript. I don't know how much time they said. They said it would take about six hours. It's in shorthand right now, and we'll have to translate that. They said it would take about six hours, and this would likelyand right now and we'll have to translate that yeah they said it would take about six hours and this would likely mean they would have to be sequestered

overnight so they said therefore you guys should just try to reach a verdict based on your memory and don't worry about it and they went all right and they went back in there talked for two more hours and then came back out uh with a here. Yeah, they asked him again. Sorry, when they went back in to deliberate more, the judge said to the counsel, they may be very close to a decision, but quite frankly, that's the crux of the whole case, those two witnesses, he says to the counsels.

So I would have to say they must be a real stumbling block at this point to them. I mean, that was really the two witnesses that was the crux of the case so they don't believe those two people the case is over two more hours of deliberation they come back guilty as charged oh my first degree murder how do you guilty how do you sleep at night next day penalty phase uh the defense uh says one of the mitigating factors was his emotional state which is pretty thing because he's denying he did it but in penalty phase you can't just go didn't do it you have to like have mitigating factors either way whether you're denying it or not and he says

the reason i bring this up this is the the attorney is because i think the testimony at trial for mary boyd and paula vanormer indicate that due to the continued and rather brutal treatment of Ireland Boyd that was exhibited toward his wife, that the defendant was upset. He was under kind of an emotional. He was troubled emotionally by what he observed. So he said he just, you know, he snapped battered neighbor syndrome. He had like, you know, he saw a wife being messed with and had like a what is that when you're uh uh captive yeah stockholm stockholm hey mandela stockholm stockholm mandela it's the name of our new band so uh he says i think we can argue to the jury

that they were neighbors for a period of months during which time mary boyd was continuously exposed to this kind of degrading behavior by the victim. And that, you know, if there's any pretense at all in which to kill Ireland Boyd, it was, I mean, he didn't rob him. He didn't get in a fight with him. He took him out the same night that he tried to have oral sex with his wife in the defendant's presence. And I think that he would that would be sufficient evidence, at least to make a colorable argument.

So, yeah, to the jury. So they're saying he tried to force his wife to blow him in front of him. So that's emotionally. Yeah, you shouldn't. Yeah, it makes you murder. He also said other mitigating factors they tried to put out that he's a hardworking guy. He didn't drink or use drugs to any extent other than socially. He was a nonviolent person who broke up fights.

He does have a murder conviction. Right. to any extent other than socially he was a non-violent person who broke up fights he does have a murder conviction right um and that's the main thing that fucked him here that he had no juvenile offender problems and uh he was from a family of seven children only had an eighth grade education that he had been an adequate provider for his son he's a family man and he helped other people talk out their problems so you know he's, he's fine. The evidence here shows that, you know, Mary had pled guilty. Also, they show that to the jury. She pled guilty in exchange for a testimony and received a lower sentence. So they said they end up the jury for a vote from eight to four recommends that he be sentenced to death.

Good fuck. Okay. That's the jury's recommendation eight to four so immediately thereafter um the judge says he finds three aggravating circumstances that the crime was committed while bud was under a sentence of imprisonment he's on parole for a violent crime he had previously been convicted of a violent felony and that the crime was committed in a cold calculated and premeditated manner the judge finds zero mitigating factors at all to it and the judge says you sir may fuck off death by electric chair oh my word um with zero evidence yeah now december 10th 86

motion for a new trial is denied. December 27th, 86. He files for an appeal. The appeal is based on misidentification. Now, I cannot express to you enough in everything I've ever read about any kind of detective work, whether it be John Douglas doing Mindhunter or the entire fucking homicide David Simon book, which is all about identifying perpetrators that are doing something not just you know did that guy have a dime bag in his pocket this is serious shit all of them talk about you cannot ever depend on eyewitness identification unless the person has spent significant time with that person someone holds you hostage for two hours yeah you can probably identify them if they sexually assault you and are right in your face and you can probably identify them if they did something for three seconds in front of you you don't know who the fuck you saw

and it's way worse interracially yeah cross racial lines like black people cannot identify white people white people cannot identify black people they don't it's just statistically i know you say i do i get it statistically you don't though that's the thing the worst ones of all and this is statistic are uh are black or white identifying asians and asians identifying anybody that's not asian isn't that weird that's bananas they said in baltimore they would go crazy because a lot of the stores were run by Koreans. When they get robbed, they'd ask for a description and they'd say, all black people look alike. That's what they'd tell the fucking, they were from Korea.

They just got there. They would tell the detective, don't know, black guy, they all look alike. I don't know. No, I don't know. That's what they'd tell them. They were like, great. I had a gun pressed to my head on the floor of a pizza restaurant i i know that they were wearing jordans but i don't even know which

model it that's what i'm saying i remember seeing the jordan logo but your brain your brain your brain too will fill in shit to make it comfort itself to know things so you can't depend on memory 20 minutes later when the cops were there i was like green and yellow jordans i think that's what i mean it's you got a brain you start creating people i couldn't even identify an item that i was staring at a color that's what i mean it's it's just how your brain works your brain knows and recognizes things that it knows and recognizes yeah and at the time i'm not thinking about that guy i'm thinking about the exactly iron pressed against my exactly that's the other thing too you're not thinking i better have a detailed description in a fucking 15 minutes i'm going is that duct tape around my ankles what are they what's happening this isn't good jesus christ so also they bring

up the so the defense is the uh to the appeal here the uh edwards's case is that he basically there's that he brings up the supreme court big there's a big thing about quote this is uh quote the annals of criminal law are rife with instances of mistaken identification and they note justice frankfurter's observation in the identification of strangers is proverbially untrustworthy and the u.s supreme court went on to state that the dangers for the accused are particularly grave when the witness witnesses opportunity for observation was insubstantial quick IDs, which is not great. So the decision here they said that the accuracy the appellant is indeed a black

man with a round face and short hair like most black males his hair and eyes are dark. Therefore he fits the description of the suspect whatever weight this might this factor might carry toward establishing the reliability of the court ID, however, is diminished by the fact that the description was so sketchy in general that several thousand black men in and around Sarasota County could fit this description. Fair. The important thing is that Walter's description, like his identification, is predicated so heavily on just the shape of the man's face

in the press he says his identification uh clearly could and almost certainly did play a significant role in the jury's deliberations in particular his testimony if believed provided sorely needed corroboration for mary boyd's accusation which is exactly true here so uh they said it would be highly conjectural to say that the jury would nevertheless have convicted him solely on a co-conspirators testimony. He said the erroneous admission of the court identification can be written off as harmless under a certain standard. If the jury's unfulfilled request during deliberations to have them read

back the testimony and in light of the trials courts, trial courts express recognition of that. These two state witnesses were the crux of the whole fucking case right literally they have there they also recognize that neither boyd nor walters is an ideal witness both were evasive on many questions both made inconsistent statements both in court and from police station to court all of this shit and uh they said uh they also review of these trial court they observed their witnesses demeanor and the court cannot say beyond a reasonable doubt that the jury would necessarily have convicted him based just on that they said the lineup the people in the lineup didn't even fucking look like them right uh they said that uh uh there was three

thin-faced men and one had a bushy afro so that's that's four out of the seven that definitely aren't him so that's ridiculous and uh they said that jeffrey walters never told the police of his reported ability to identify him until after the lineup and after he had already known him so there's that uh they say he did see him in the paper, the Sarasota Herald Tribune, under the headline murder for sex suspect was convicted in 75 death. So that's a rough one. So they say here in both situations, court identification may not be admitted unless it is found to be reliable and based solely upon the witness's independent recollection of the offender at the time of the crime and is uninfluenced by the intervening illegal confrontation. They said that his own testimony demonstrates the opportunity to observe the man

in the car with Hillbilly Boyd was minimal. He observed the car for only three to four seconds. For these few seconds, his attention was divided. Exactly the shit we said. Barely saw the outline of his face. He said Appellant is thus entitled to a new trial at which walters will

not be allowed to identify him oh and we reverse and remand for further proceedings go ahead great now they would have to retry him without the witness without any so now it would just be mary boyd saying we kind of winked and nodded and then he fucked me on a couch right and that was the case didn't agree on a price a time away a way out a plan none of that shit we were that's all that happened and that's what they have to rely on he goes home they couldn't retry him they had nothing to retry him on uncorroborated co-defendant nope or uncorroborated and hillbilly no justice no well i mean it is kind of justice fuck hillbilly i think that is we always say we never like we you know we don't we don't you know make fun of

the victims or whatever the victims families but you know this guy's a fucking asshole i'm sorry i know he's dead it's disrespectful but he was a dick to everybody he beat the shit out of his kids he beat the shit out of his wife he fucking was a menace to the whole neighborhood we do say try we try we did our best we've had a few leyland west virginia don't be a scumbag that's what i mean someone's an asshole we're like i don't know guy's kind of an asshole i mean he was a dick right so i don't know that said what do you want from me he was an asshole this is my favorite one you know i'm kind of fucking fuck this guy have no closure no no closure. No, no closure. Mary did time in prison.

I mean, probably did half that time. Probably did six years. I mean, he did like three years before the appeal, and I'm sure they kept him for a while before they ended up having to dismiss it because they weren't going to refile based on... Did he have any other problems after this? I don't know. Couldn't find anything. John Edwards is a very common name. Is it name and it was really difficult to figure it out once he got

out of jail it was like oh he's gone he just disappeared that man's in the wind forever and i'm sure he didn't really want to be out there either he's you know being accused of murder and all this type of shit so that said hope you enjoyed that hope that was a mind just a cleanser enough questions yeah that's good you got enough questions we'll give you more we got more That said, hope you enjoyed that. Hope that was a mind, just a cleanser. Enough questions. Yeah, that's good. You got enough questions? We'll give you more.

We got more. But honestly, hope that was a little cleanser and a little mind palate cleanser for you guys there. And if so, help us out. Get on Apple Podcasts, that purple icon. Give us five stars. It helps out tremendously for some goddamn reason it just does i don't know say anything you want just type something in there i don't give a shit what you do so just please it helps go to shut up and give me murder.com for everything crime and sports and small town murder related listen to crime and sports i'm telling you guys listen to the goddamn

show don't you trust us we're here for you every week we bring equality stuff we're not saying that you owe us anything for that we owe you if anything for listening but just trust us we trust each other we trust each other we finish each other really fucking funny really funny we have a good time we have a great time checking out crime and sports is so much fun check that out do all of. You should also follow us on social media. We are at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, and at Small Town Murder on Instagram. So follow all of those. Or you could just use the old at Crime and Sports, crimeandsports.gmail.com for the email there.

Do all of that. You should also become a Patreon donor. And this isn't just for us. We really try to put good stuff on patreon we work hard we work hard on it we don't want it to be garbage we want those shows to be just fucking wall-to-wall laughs and crazy shit and uh if you have not been on patreon last week we did haunted houses in small towns made fun of that shit this week we're going to do the uh Chris Watts documentary, which will be very interesting. We'll talk about that whole case because that's right up our goddamn alley. When that happened, I'm like, oh, other people are going to talk about this.

Whenever any tragedy, murder happens in a small town, I feel ownership over it. I want to tweet out, don't you fucking dare. How fucking dare you people. Don't you know we exist? This is our thing. Should be at the end of the AP article. And this one is for these two. Yeah, which is really a disturbing way to look at it i gotta say that's disgusting but i don't know it's like a weird it's we're not even chasing ambulances

we're chasing hearses which is fucking worse i guess so i guess they're already dead what are we gonna do about it so anyway yeah but we're gonna do that and then we'll have a that guy was an asshole so we'll have a crazy time with that's a wild story awful story it is and also jimmy will give you a shout out here we'll give you a shout out he'll mispronounce your name you will be a producer we're going to talk about in just a moment you can get everything what we just mentioned if you're over the five dollar mark there in any mark we'll get you a shout out sure the all the bonus stuff five dollars that is patreon.com slash crime and sports and uh you can do that or if you just want good karma and a shout out

to have your name fucked up you can do that as well over at paypal using our email address crime in sports at gmail.com and that said jimmy god damn it i i you know it's been just crazy and i need to hear just nice happy things i need to hear just nice, happy things. I need to hear the names of, honestly, some of my favorite fucking people on earth that would never take us out in the middle of the night and smash our skulls in with a lug wrench. Please, Jimmy, hit me with those names, but not a wrench right now. This week's executive producers are Danielle with no last name. Tyler Nymiller. I think that's right.

Gavin Zamiello. Yep. Hey, nice. Bert 1094 might be his address. I don't know. are danielle with no last name tyler nymiller i think that's right gavin zamiello yep hey nice uh bert 1094 might be his address i don't know ashley with no last name carrie gauge drew bittner nope what is that what did i do bittner i think god damn it betiner wow i'm a terrible we're fourth we're like five names in i write so terrible chantelle george brianne solu i think katie howell nope that's hayley or hail kip soosley sarah schumer uh tyron with no last name david meisner nicole and ashley thompson austin ford kelsey hebert is sticking around thanks kelsey remember when we got her super

i got her yeah really i felt like wandered the city. I feel bad. She just disappeared and wandered off into the Chicago streets that night. Sam Haflin, Madison Lilly, Shana Rogers, John Sardo, Michael Dietrich, Aaron Sinkovich, Elizabeth Wolfinger, Jordan Bennett, of course, and Donnie Keene. Thank you guys so much. We can't do it without you. Other producers this week are Terry Money, Antonio Menzies? I don't know. That's a tough one.

Taylor Phillips. Adam with no last name. Heather with no last name. D.E. Et. Boulach. Boulach. Is it D.E.

Et.? I don't know what I did. What did you do? I don't know. Warner Swope. Savannah Showalter. Brendan Boyle. Jessica Durden.

Brooke Kemp. Mick Quinn. Elliot Bressler, Deborah Waddell, Joel Van Arsdale, J.D. Bricker, Lucas Folks, Justin List, Zachary Lee, Benjamin Page, Not Here. Was that right? Damon Smith, Stephanie Donovan, Pat Fox Leonard. What is this? Tenley Wells, Sabine Bechtold, Leah Creter. Tough run this week, Jimmy. It is. Michael Muiz, Lucy Carter, Rohan Bajaj. He donated twice, both ways.

I think it's Rohan Bajaj. I saw he was laid up or something. Yeah, he does the hospital stuff because he's got a bad heart. Yeah, I feel bad for that guy. Thanks for hanging with us, brother. He thank you annalise dupil dupil i'm sorry annalise i'm so bad at that sarah ostaforoff what no stephanie heron and billy johnson holly flowers johnson there jimmy can get that got it michael weber or weber samuel nope that's samuel ruby probably jack's head i assume ronnie kumar james roberts zach taylor with an x zach that's i think is that cool is that be zacks it's z x a c that's zach right not on this planet no but thank you for your money

it's cooler than regular zach i guess but it's like let's take a name like zach which is meant to try to be cool and try to really cool it up you're gonna rock star this man it's probably james taylor's kid probably that's why amber was the last name nathan simon derrick cooper torre jorge torres uh andrew young luis fernandez uh jessica mckinney anastasia bergeimer uh bergmeyer god damn it mike hymes uh stephan nope that's steph hey davis brian dixon uh kristin hecker aaron fifield fifield dustin thornton john with no last name june he kim uh janna ray jonathan head sue tufts, Sam Hewn, Andrew Santos, Nicole Winkle, Winkle Seth? What? Winkle?

I don't know what it is. Stephanie with no last name. Amanda Short, Amy Nicole. Nope, that's Sean. Sean Banner. He's sticking around. Hey, Sean. What's up?

One of the four horsemen. Right. Narelle O'Connor. Roe with no last name. G with no last name. Sean McConnell, I think, Nelson Brandon, Philo, Brandon-o, fuck, Paul with no last name, Carly Boyd, Michael Scott, Pat Bemont, Brendan Jones, Chance Ferguson, D-minus, Sonia Montgomery, Alicia with no last name, Jose Tresero, Tyler Jorgensen.

I'm so bad at this. Heather Watson, Alex Ames, Robin Meyer, Nick Porter, Michael White, Shelby with no last name, Michelle Hilson, Mike Rabe, Maureen Moran. What? Justin Henson, Felicia Winskunas. Leland Davidson. Lizette Talbot. Tanya Garcia. Andrew Moore.

Ashley Danforth. Krissa Blanca. Blanca. What did I do? Justin Elliott Judd. Rachel Dean. Michelle Mazuris. Steven Faubel.

What? Ben Brown. Michael Bright. What you got there? Say again? Gus Zazo. Jamie English Ben Brown. Michael Bright. What you got there? Say again. Gus Zazo. Jamie English. Yes.

Lucas Wayman. Wayman. Cassie Divine. Georgia with no last name. Kayleen Greninger. Tracy Ainsworth. Nancy McKee. Kate Smith.

Blake Dove. Alice Alyssa. Alyssa Judge. You can't do S-Z-C-Z. That's not words, right? That's somebody from Czechoslovakia. Alyssa, Alyssa Judds. You can't do S-Z-C-Z. That's not words, right? What is that? Somebody from Czechoslovakia. Alyssa Jacek.

It's nice that the God Bless America lady gave us money. That's very nice. Thank you. Alicia Haskins, Corey White, Christy Breanne, Amanda Scherer, Heidi Hesse, Dominic Fontaney, Hess, Hesse, Dominic Fontaini, Katie Rose Morris Cole, Rachel Lammary, Dominique Jackson, yes, Carl Lively, Lynn Quabo, Cara Outs, Cornfield Lee, Jim Comiani, yep, Joshua, what, Ahizi? Brian Martin? Daniel? Daniel Belusi? Danielle? I don't know.

I think it's a guy, and I'm fucking his name up. I'm sorry. Or it's a, I don't know. I'm an asshole, is what it is. You are in a hole tonight. Nicole Merchant? Zane Hall? Christine Caskella?

Martin? Martin Knightsbridge? Teresa Brockman? Catherine Brizoni, Sarah Vidal, Jamie Barthel, David Kupar, Albert and Avila, Kira Heinrichson-Morgan, Amanda with no last name, Dave with no last name, Lieben Osmond, Ryan Poots, Tyler Carter, Cherie Bower, Sheena Elliott, Ryan Harold, Aina Cusack, yeah, what? Yeah. Mark Faden, Kevin Blaylock, Mandy Brown. I'm really hitting the brakes.

Dweb07, Ayla Indigo, Rob with no last name, Vinny Lester, Brian Leal, Matthew Troy, Glenn Glenn. Okay, new page. Yep. Deep breath. Here we go. Nicole Danzer. New day. Mackenzie, what, Merjochi?

Merjachi? Nope, same day. Mersochi. That's what it is. Same day, same time. Just after lunch. Cody with no last name. Bailey Maple.

Beck with no last name. Stephanie Diddy. Black in the Day podcast. beck would know last name stephanie diddy black in the day podcast kenzie would know last name desmond uh nelson care would know last name brian lempa sarah adair angela uh gilmer misty boyd thomas ward andrew bataglia bataglini heather peterson liz cernowiskey serwinski lauren ocello uh saranda is that saranda lindsey what it's got to be a first name last right i don't know maybe phil irving mike sheehan doug manning ellen medley uh jonathan hooling ashley with no last name don bray brannon keely John Brannon, Keeley, nope, Khalil Kelly, Kevin Stanley, Tim Pendle, MM, Gunlogger, Gunporsen, what? Daniel Morgan, Mona Pomona, MSCMO, Miss CMO, CMO, CMO? MSCMO.

Is that what we pronounce in letters now? Maricopa County Sheriff's Office. CMO. Oh, I don't know katherine vasunda uh jesslyn jesslyn reinhardt corinne ryan andrew betts augustus lerma melanie maline uh mitch barter jacqueline hewitt kendra kandria jones uh taylor mcmorris becca waters force of nature podcast uh margaret feltner brayley h uh there's no last name, just H. That's what that is. Katerina Apolinova, Ann Owens, James Bress, Scarlett Horbeast Jr., Lindsay Shaheen, Anthony

Verdine. Congratulations, Scarlett Horbeast. Anthony Verdine, Chelsea Rumpia. Rumpcia? What did I do? Christine Hansen RJ with no last name Noreen Jones

Anne Janky Anna Janky Jahanky Sarah Romano Lisa Arrowsmith Probably Yeah The band's daughter

They all had a daughter One daughter They all gang No You never know Louise Ord Yelena Mike Rabe

C.T. Hamilton Lucas Russell Jason Copeland, Daniel Erhard, Charles Cohn, When Steven Tyler came, he went, Wah! Kim JMJ91, Orion Howard, Julie Magiacom Carrera, What is this? Nicholas Kerstein. Ben Bird. Robert Milligan. Andrew Hunt. Jamie Dimon.

D-Man. Damon. No. Chris Carazas. Carazas. Carazas. It's probably that. Matthew Litz or Lites.

Maria Hertelfsen. Homestretch. Nicholas Walchowski. Sanalasui Nintini. That's not right either. Hannah Elliott, Ronnie Kumar, Katerina Nielzolka, Christina, nope, that's Christine Hudson, Cole Hinson, Peyton Meadows, Alicia Stambach, Tracy Apple DeMaris, I'm never going to get it right. It doesn't matter. Amanda Knight.

Jordan with no last name. Aaron Wilson. Tina Wolf. Suzanne's Townies. Rachel Kiskaden. Steve Schnell. Thanks, Steve. Jeff Salagi.

It's Italian. He's going to fuck that up. Cameron Close. And I'm way off. Matthew Wilkins. Joanne Ahern. Happy birthday, Jen Armstrong and Aaron Halston. Happy birthday. Brendan Ables.

Susan Olges. Happy birthday, Tracy Mullet. Mashie Blade. Marissa Cole. Lacey's Sweet Creations. Catherine Glancy. Tracy Jacobs. Mark G. Christophe Oliwa, Mindy Schompert, Tracy Ainsworth, Alexander Boll, Matthew Grazder, Jonathan Rice, Alexander Boll, Christina Brayton, Aliciaicia nope that's alex fisher yimenez stacy kathleen coomer uh vidar log sam samuelson the suck up uh marcia mccorkle uh happy birthday to nia from joey pivarnick happy birthday he said he loves her uh but i could have just said from joey because there's there's no

pivarnicks right how many other are there halls fellerfeller TV, Marcia McCorkle, I said that, Tyler Rine, Viviana, Alex Hopper, Andrea Sabolik, Addison Hendricks, Allison with S-Z, S-Z again. What? Sapanski? There you go. Sapanski. Yeah, sure. Michael Johnson, Michael S. Johnson.

There's a ton of those. Paul with no last name, Janice Hill, John Helms, Chloe Campbell, Thomas Smith, Carter Harris, Melissa Atheson, James Marder, Deanna Grimes, and Tuesday Brews crew, Jude Kendall, and obviously all of our other patron supporters, but also

Shelly Aldridge-Roberts' birthday is this week. She's from Gun Barrel, Texas. She sends us all the Gun Barrel shit. Thank you. Karina Serdel, Emily, and Nick, happy anniversary. Elizabeth Smith and Clay Thorson and his wife. Thanks, brother.

Thank you both so much. For everything. You're amazing. Give the wife a big hug and a kiss. It's either their anniversary or it's her birthday, because you know what I did is not write it down. Perfect. Thanks, Clay. You're amazing.

And all of our patron supporters, you guys are amazing. Thank you, everybody, so much. Thank you, guys. So we were just saying that the case that we were just talking about, Jimmy said they think it was a lug wrench. They said, yeah, that kind of shape. And I went, you know, something that's in the back of a pickup, some kind of tool. So he's like, there's something sliding around back there.

Slams against the back of the fucking cab when you hit the brakes too hard. You know how that works. And the light goes yellow. What if somebody wanted to slam against your cab jimmy how could they get a call to you find me at westman sucks w-h-i-s-m-a-n sucks on twitter and instagram thank you guys truly for everything that you do it's uh it's mind it's fucking it's really scary uh how how much you guys support us and i and i really appreciate it it's a fact it's a lot of people that we don't want to let down, so we work really hard to continue that.

And even bigger fact. Yeah. We won't let you down. You can find me at Jimmy P is funny, or you can just copy and paste from the show. You know how the fuck to find people. You know how to find people if you want to look them up. Thank you guys, honestly, for everything. You've kept us going, and you've always been there for us, so we're always going to try to be there for you.

We can't fucking wait for every episode. We're excited for it, and we're still excited for next week and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.