Small Town Murder - #197 - No Good Deed... in Golden Valley, Arizona

Episode Date: November 12, 2020

This week, in Golden Valley, Arizona, a very nice gesture leads to some not very nice murder. Actually, it's vicious, nasty murders that make very little sense, and that's only the start. We can't say "why??" quite enough during this episode, as the brutality is just so out of proportion. And can a 14 year old girl really be part of a couple of adult's murder plan? This one will keep you head shaking, for a while! Along the way, we find out moonshine & chili are probably bad to eat & drink, with no bathrooms around, that you can absolutely be too nice, and that some people seem to have zero moral compass!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasting See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Golden Valley, Arizona, a friendly gesture turns into something much darker when a plan spins out of control and into the territory of absolute and total brutality. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, again for joining us once more. We are so excited every single week. One more again. One more again. Two. I'm so excited yeah we're pumped we are in addition and plus and also and duplicate then exactly squared let's do this yes thank you guys for joining us everybody this week we do have

a crazy show the next few weeks are bonkers episodes we just have they're you they are always crazy i'm not gonna lie but the next few are especially strange and weird and heinous and crazy and just a while buckle up for the for the end of 2020 good we're gonna ride you out of 2020 correctly here god damn it yeah that's right so that said let's get into this quickly real fast uh itunes reviews or apple podcast what the hell the goddamn things are called thank you for those they do help a lot five stars if you will uh shut up and give me murder.com is the website if you want to get bonus stuff very easy to do that it is patreon.com slash crime in sports and we have so much beautiful, wonderful bonus stuff for you.

It's crazy. You should get in there this week. We're going to talk about the Chris Watts documentary story tragedy mess. Yeah, it's probably just tragic. It's just a disaster, that whole thing. So we're going to talk about that. And crime and sports, you're also going to want to hear, too, because it's just mistaken identities of people who are impersonating athletes or athletes impersonating other athletes you got to hear a story of how a six foot three man said he was bill russell the six foot ten celtic center and

his excuse for why he wasn't six foot ten anymore is worth five dollars the winningest man in nba history and that's who you choose that's who you choose patreon.com slash crime and sports will get you all that and uh that is so much fun you'll get.com slash crime and sports will get you all that and uh that is so much fun you'll get lots and lots of bonus stuff there if you just want to be just a happy nice person with good karma and get a shout out at the end of the show have jimmy mangle your name just incoherently you can do that as well over at paypal you'll get no every donation gets a mangled name that you're going to get. You just want to be nice. You can do it over PayPal using our email address. Crime and sports at Gmail dot com.

I just saw a name going in my ear or in my eye. Yeah. Going through my brain and coming out different letters. That's what happens. Happens every time. Disclaimer. Quickly. Quickly, quickly here.

This is a comedy podcast. It's a comedy show. The stories are real. Shockingly, you might hear these stories and get the hell out of here. quickly here uh this is a comedy podcast it's a comedy show the stories are real shockingly you might hear these stories and get the hell out of here no they actually all happened exactly like this we don't make anything up for comedy you don't have to that's the thing and when you're talking about a murder there's a ton of stuff around it think about the idea of let's plan a murder yeah that's crazy and the dumb stuff you're gonna do around that and then to cover it up

that's funny i'm sorry every time it's different yeah decapitating someone isn't funny but the idea to do it and how to get out of it is hilarious because that is ridiculous yeah so that's kind of where we're at what we try not to do we go out of our way not to make fun of the victim or the victim's family because we're assholes but we're not scumbags there it is that said i think it's time to sit back clear the lungs yeah just get into this give it hell shout shut up and give me murder let's do this i can't wait let's go on a trip shall we well as soon as everybody stays the fuck home yeah let's get out there for this put some mask on, whatever. For this, this isn't far from us. Okay. This is good. We're in Arizona this week, so we could drive here.

Okay. So no big long trip. We can bubble ourselves off from the world. Golden Valley, Arizona, which sounds wonderful. Yeah. It sounds like a golden sunset, but as we discussed and- Ground full of gold? No, it's just the showers are the only thing golden there

it's a barren wasteland urine yes that's not a good place to be where we flush it all this is one of the more awful places we've ever done really this is i'm especially i hate arizona like i hate it here i fucking i've lived here for 23 years i've despised every second of it every year ugly it's worse it's It gets worse. It's ugly. Every year I hate it more. I hate the weather. And this year specifically you hate it more. It's the hottest year we've ever had, which is I hate the fucking heat more than anything.

And then we can't even get out of here. Can't get out of here. Stuck here. It's awful. Well, this is everything. Every bad thing about Arizona is crammed into this one little town. It's awful. Northwestern Arizona, panhandle. That little hook that comes off. Oh town it's awful northwestern arizona panhandle that

little hook that comes off in there panhandle time this is meth shacks dotting the land yeah that's what this is what's that out there that's a meth shack you see off the highway that little looks like a little fucking outhouse in the distance not a shitter why would there be a shitter you could shit in the field nestled up against the the narrow part of the colorado river yeah exactly disgusting part yep it's awful man this is a terrible place to be 15 minutes outside kingman which kingman is it's pretty bad one of the worst cities in the country i don't know probably the world how dare they call that a city that's what i mean i'm sure maybe there's places in sy that are worse or something, you know, while they're in the middle of a civil war. But normally, I can't imagine a worse place than Kingman.

The tallest structure in Kingman, I believe, is their water tower. Probably. It's not even a tower. It's one of those flat ones. I was going to say, it's just 14 meth heads on each other's shoulders making a cheerleader pyramid holding buckets. Tallest structure in Kingman. We're the tower. That was a bad place.

Y'all want a bucket? It's awful. Three and a half hours down to Phoenix. Thank God there's a buffer here. And about an hour 40 to Vegas, so not too far from Vegas either. It's right by Laughlin, Bullhead City, that area. Not great. There are things up there to do.

If you're white trash, yes. If you're willing to stick it out. If you are hardcore white trash, there's things up there for you to do. I'm not even going to fucking pull any punches. I'm not. I'm not. It's terrible. It's fucking awful.

I've been up there. Yeah. The whole time. You know that look that I have when they give me a burger that has grease all over the bun? Yeah, that crinkly nose. That's the entire time I'm up there. I could get out of the car. His face on a flag.

Yeah. Me shaking my head looking at everybody. The tallest structure in Kingman, Arizona is a man named Fred. There he is. Look at that. He holds a bucket. They call him the water tower. That's the guy.

That's our guy. This is what we're talking about. We know this place, we know kingman it's a fucking bad the worst that's what i mean we're being awful because we know it it's true it's in mojave county yeah like the desert and that's it's far back oh man this place golden valleys is dust it's so bad uh area code 928 79 square miles what this area and not a lot of people in it either it's bad uh motto they're very honest at least i give them that welcome to meth country folks that's it it's marlboro country for the 2020s everybody's got a kayak welcome to meth country

yeah if you buy a certain amount of meth you can get meth miles you send your meth miles in and you get a fucking kayak. That's how it works. For that narrow part of the river. Yeah. For the little tiny narrow kink there. I'll take it up to Laughlin and have a good old time. Woo!

Jesus. What a shithole. Everything, too, stems from Laughlin in this, too. It's so weird. In the story? In the story, in this town. It's very Laughlin. It's so weird. Really? In the story? In the story, in this town. It's very Laughlin. It's so weird.

So apparently there's a lot of confusion of whether it's considered part of Kingman. People think it's part of Kingman, which is not legally valid because I found this, as residents have never voted to be annexed by Kingman and have no vote in Kingman's elections.

Oh. So no representation. None. No taxation without representation, people. So they're having a giant meth party where they're going to throw all the meth over into the harbor. Oh, no, they have no water. Throw it off into the dust and then scramble for it. It's a kid's meth scramble, everybody.

It's like an Easter egg hunt for meth. One giant sandbox. kids make make sure to give it to your parents don't keep it for yourself golden valley is it part of like the whoever represents that area statewide congressionally is that uh is it whoever's part of kingman it's gotta be right probably that i guess i don't know are they upset by that or are they fine with it i think it's a sculpture of r McDonald outside of the Highway McDonald's as their representative up there. I'm pretty sure.

I'm not positive what they're doing up there, but it's nothing good. They're up to no good, Jimmy. It's a weird area of the state, not just the country. No, it's disgusting. It's bizarre. Okay. Picture Reno 911. Picture that except not a city.

Right. Picture that in like a small town. That's exactly what this place is. It's exactly meth running around, dust everywhere. That guy Mike that comes out and he's like, hey, what are you doing? Arrow through his head and all that. That guy with the chart in his head. And the tiny pool in the front yard.

Exactly. Yeah. That's the resident of this. Yeah. He's their congressman. That's the resident of the mayor of this yeah he's the he's their congressman that's who they elected he represents there so some residents live closer to kingman and some residents live closer to bullhead city so it's kind of uh teeter between they teeter between there's a prison up there of course yeah making it even worse right it's uh arizona state

prison in kingman has an address that's actually in Golden Valley. Really? You know, it says Kingman. And when it was being sold to the residents, because they sell these prisons, because this is a for-profit prison. Yeah. So they sell these prisons to the residents. You're going to get all these great jobs.

We're not going to put anybody terrible in here. No, it'll be like people who, you know, have like, they have like dyslexia, misread a street sign. Who's here, James? You know what I mean? 9-11 terrorists? They said that it would, they promised it would be, quote, a prison for DUI offenders only. Oh, no.

And then later on, due to control of the inmate population problems, the contract for the prison was changed hands since opening. The contract for the prison was changed and changed hands since opening. It's now it's a for profit prison operated by GEO group under contract to hold inmates for the Arizona Department of Corrections. All fucking inmates. Everybody murders. Oh, by the way, that has consequences because on July 30th, 2010, three inmates, two of the murderers, one of them an attempted murderer escaped from the facility. And that's in our town so much not like anybody's going it's a prison they ain't gonna get out right you just watch raising arizona one too many times i don't know what you're talking about shit they ain't gonna get

out of there and even if they do what are they just gonna drive crooked come on now who's out how many body parts he take oh jesus christ and we're sorry to keep doing the panhandle accent but if you've ever been to this area yeah that is the accent so it's that's where it comes from it's horrifying it's it's this place guys there's oh my god what's the average number of teeth per person in this area i'm not even kidding you've been up here it's pretty bad. It's fine. It's yeah. We can't tell you how hillbilly this shit is. People have to stop there because your car won't get all the way to Vegas sometimes on

a tank of gas. Or even if you do on your way back, you've got to stop there to get gas to get back home. And you'll see every time you get out of the car, you go, what? What the fuck is this happening? It's only three hours from actual civilization. Yeah, you get it. It smells weird. It looks weird.

People are strange. They're gangly. People's eyes are too close together. There's no water. It's not right up there. In the landscape, the plants are all dead. There's no reason for humans to have set up shop there. It's wild.

Except for it being halfway between something and something else. You need gas. That's it. They set it up so people will live here so people can get gas. That's not a good reason to stop somewhere. So one of them ended up being recaptured a couple days later after a shootout with a deputy and city police in Rifle, Colorado. That was a guy named, who was he?

A guy named Renwick, Daniel Renwick. He was serving 22 years for second degree murder and uh so there you go the other two guys here let me see who were these guys yeah they all escaped this is great john mccluskey was serving 15 years for second degree murder aggravated assault and trace province who was serving a life sentence for murder and robbery awesome so these are the three guys that got out. Oh, my God. When they got out, they initially kidnapped two semi-truck drivers at gunpoint

and used their big rigs to flee. Oh, wow. That's how they got away. Watch out out there, truckers. That's what's on the road. Yeah. Fuck. This is terrible.

One of them got made all the way to August 9th and was captured in Mietitse. Mietitse? M-E-E-T-E-E-T-S-E. Yeah. Jesus. Mietitse. Mietitse. Yeah.

Wyoming. Mietitse. Mietitse. Mietitse. Mietitse. Up there in Mietitse, Wyoming. Oh, Mietitse are all sore today. Mietitse's, Wyoming. Oh, Metitz's are all sore today. Metitz's, Wyoming there.

And the third escape and his accomplice cousin were captured near Springerville on August 19th. So they made it all the way to there. It's not bad. 20 days. Springerville, that's Arizona. That's Arizona, yeah. East Central Arizona in the White Mountains. You're right.

So they were at a U.S. Forest Service campground. Oh, dummies. Dummies. Dummies. So I found some reviews of this town. And there's a couple that are kinder than others. Let's get to it here. Three stars.

Golden Valley is relatively underdeveloped. Although there are thousands of people living in this valley, many live without the amenities most other Americans take for granted. Like, you know, water. Amenities like paved roads and streets.'m telling you that's an amenity an overwhelming an overwhelming majority of the majority of these residents live on dirt roads some so rough pickup trucks and four-wheel drive vehicles are the standard and regular passenger cars are the exception those with larger families five, five plus, over five, must haul water, often for miles. They have the big tank in the car they have to go.

There's no city. Wow. As often as two to four times a week. There's no grocery store, hardware store, bank, nor police station. It's all in Kingman or Bullhead City. So you move. Yeah. What the fuck?

Yet these residents choose to live here for the freedom they enjoy that's a scary person for the freedom there's what the fuck freedom you have the freedom to live like an animal i have the freedom james to go collect my water the freedom to live like a fucking animal but an animal and not even in a forest where there's resources you got a water trailer that's the freedom to live like a lizard i feel wonderful with that fucking fuck freedom that's not freedom freedom and he explains the freedoms freedom from and i say he because this is most certainly freedom from heavy traffic freedom from too many neighbors that are too close freedom to look up at night and actually see the stars more than three days a year.

Golden Valley is also fairly close proximity to the Colorado River, Lake Mojave, Lake Mead, both Laughlin and Las Vegas. You can do all of that in a place that's less awful. There are nice rural locations, really nice rural locations that we've seen that are gorgeous. This isn't one of them. You know what's nice about uh not being able to see the stars the reason i can't see them is because they're street lights illuminating the fucking pavement wouldn't it be nice to have a street light out there on your dirt fucking road ever been to maine it's beautiful you can see the stars like crazy none of this

shit they have water they have food so much water do anything you want unbelievable new hampshire live free or die right go there yeah fucking stars everywhere i have to wear a seat enjoy so three stars for this one i used to live in a small city of golden valley arizona it was a nice place for people who wanted a little bit more privacy you could live in a house where your neighbor is far enough where you feel like you have your whole property by yourself it was very hot and dry with a nice view of the desert and cactus jesus uh three stars this is a one sentence quote there are a lot of mobile homes out here that's somebody that's scared that's their sos you guys uh sure are a lot of mobile they're waving a flag making hand signals going hey come on. Somebody help.

Send someone in. I hope my grandparents read this. Oh, boy. Send help. Send help. Dollar General usually has whatever you're looking for, but if you need regular groceries, you have to travel to Kingman. That's a three-star review for the Dollar General.

They're okay with that. They're fine. Two stars. The next one. The only jobs in this area are at the dollar general in the maverick station so that dollar general really plays a large role in the center of their cultural life here there's 19 jobs in this place yeah uh people 8,694 people here up 232 percent since 1990 what just a shitload arizona since 1990 has but how there i have no idea what anyone lives

there most it's weird 54 men the fuck is that it's usually more women uh it's all old people too which makes it even stranger that it's men doesn't make any sense six uh the 65 to 74 age group is more than double the average it's 22 it's crazy and it's the older than that's higher too and all the kid demos are like one-third of the average like they're all low they're all just rotting to death up there i don't know what's happening more married people than normal uh smaller household size because there's older people sort of thing uh you know less single people with no children too which i don't they're all old i don't get it so the race of this town mostly white 83 percent white uh 0.0 percent black in this town

uh 1.7 percent asian and you're gonna have 11.5 percent hispanic so about the normal arizona small town it sounds like yeah except awful uh 22.5% of the people here are religious, because if you live there, you know there's no God. You're sure of it. If you start to have visions of maybe there's something beyond me, all you have to do is just pull back the curtain of your trailer there and look outside for a second and go, oh, no, no, this is a hellscape. Yeah. There is no God. And you close it. You lay back down on your sweat stained couch yeah and you hope

for a quick death and then you realize that the visions that you were having was because you're dehydrated and you need a cup of water and you've had way too much meth in the last three days so that's what happens religions are spread pretty equally around there's nobody really that takes a hold and the lead in religions here was 0.1 percent jewish so interesting not a lot of jewish people here 0.3 percent islam which is interesting yeah uh we're not going to do politics obviously especially not this week not in this place we will talk about that quickly at the end of the show not in specifics but something about us so uh unemployment rate here is about double the rest of the country,

which makes sense because, you know, when you're doing that much meth, it's difficult to hold a fucking job down. Nobody retires from the Maverick. That's the other thing. Then there's no, why would you go there? I don't know. Anyway, I don't know.

Median household income, usually about $57,500. Here it is $33,500. So yeah, low. thousand dollars here it is thirty three and a half thousand dollars so yeah low uh forty two percent of the households make under thirty thousand dollars a year here that's not fair that is bad this is not good not a not an affluent area overall here cost of living 100 is regular average in the rest of the country here it is 86.4 so not even cheap no thing you'd be like oh you go out there and live for nothing no that's i don't think so median home costs though uh housing is a 60 out of 100 median home cost 139 100 i wouldn't pay 139 and 10 cents to fucking live there i'll tell you that

for the nicest house you got not sure that there's not many houses there i will move to jacksonville before i move here and we know how i feel about that from last week so uh if you though maybe you don't know maybe you need the freedom yeah to go get your own water and if you need that freedom we have for you the golden valley arizona real estate report Arizona Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $720, which is about $700 more than it should be. Let's be realistic. $720 for a rental? For a two-bedroom rental.

It's usually about $1,200 in the rest of the country, but this is a dump. So I found a one-bedroom bath, 768 square foot, God forsaken, dusty plot. What? It's on a, it's, it's this little house on this God forsaken plot of dusty land. It's got, this is a one bedroom, one bath sitting alone. It's not even an apartment. No, it's not. And it's got this shed house looks like a place where you'd have conjugal visits in

prison. Like they'd have like a bunch of these in a, in a dusty field. That's what it looks like a place where you'd have conjugal visits in prison like they'd have like a bunch of these in a in a dusty field that's what it looks like it might be a reformed conjugal fuck house i'm not sure eighty five thousand dollars for a for a prison fuck house would you like murder semen on your floor well you can have it now let's see here two bedroom two baths 1760 square foot dude it's just dust yeah 2.2 acres of dust loose dust a breeze makes clouds so much dust 165 000 for that gem then i found a three bedroom four bath this is you know you can sit back and you're the warden here uh this is the warden's quarters 2600 to 523 square feet decent but plain house atop a hill of dust yeah that's all it is 365 000 no i should be able to get the maverick station for that much

the hell out of here 365 000 i guarantee you the dollar general doesn't have that much in inventory no that's a lot of... No. Who has the audacity to sell that? That's why it's for sale, I think. Because no one is buying it. How long has it been on the market? I didn't catch that part. Seven years. Things to do in this town, obviously.

There are some interesting ones. First of all, gold mines. Remember when we did weird small town shit to do? This was the area, one of the areas where they had, like, you could go find a gold mine and get a claim and do all that shit but that's nothing compared to shine tober fest what that was what shine tober fest i saw it i saw it happen in your brain they go that hard on beer tober i saw your eyes register that they mean moonshine yeah it's and then it says the the header at the website is moonshine motorcycles

and mayhem oh my god think about how much rape happens there this is disturbing pirates fueled by moonshine uh yeah here's here's their pitch yeah what do you get when you mix a moonshine festival with a chili cook-off first of all all, you get fucked up porta-potties. My God. You might as well give yourself an enema. You know what you get? You get dead. That's what you get.

Oh, my God. Out there in the heat, what are you doing? And chili cook-off, ride-in motorcycle and rat show, like those rat rod show, nightly campfire parties, and on-site camping mix in a handful of arts and crafts vendors selling amazing handmade homemade unique items and you get shine tober fest holy shit it's an annual festival held in october at the saddle sore ranch yeah off route 66 in mojave county that's disgusting it disgusting. This whole thing is disgusting. The name of the bar is gross. The saddle sore.

Yeah. Everything has to do with your taint will be sore when you leave here for one reason or another. Anybody that goes to goddamn Sturgis is a pussy. Yeah. That's what we said. Yeah. That's what it is.

They use condoms in Sturgis. You got your fucking smash mouth concert. Enjoy it, pussies. Oh, these damn pussies. You got your fucking smash mouth concert. Enjoy it, pussies. Oh, these damn pussies. We got rebels. Three day camp out featuring live entertainment, games, activities, vendors, bonfires, campfire parties, contests, a chili cook off and more. Camp out.

Camp out. Three days of shitting in the desert. Sleeping in a sleeping bag. Can you imagine? No. Bring a batch of your best moonshine and or a pot of your best chili and you could win some cool hard cash entrance to the moonshine and chili competitions must provide one mason jar of the moonshine or a shine or chili for judging

mason jars the unit of measurement they're using and at least one more mason jar to pass around the campfire jesus christ some get pretty authentic with their moonshine distilling recipes while others will make flavored everclear moonshine whatever it is you make bring it as seen below passing a couple of jars as of your best homemade shine around the campfire is not illegal in arizona however selling shine is illegal she's not allowed to sell it to anybody but you could give it away give it away do not follow gps or any other maps only follow the map provided on this page attempts at alternate routes will get you stuck and we do not have the ability to get you unstuck you have been warned where the fuck is this place somebody get this map to law enforcement oh my god is the host location saddle

saw ranch offers tent camping cage parking and a limited number of rv and camper spots however as we say at the ranch quote our only hookups are between consenting adults what the fuck is that what they're saying james is there's no electricity and no sewer. You know what else they have? What do they have? The world's largest outdoor stripper pole, Jimmy. Of course they do. That's what they have. This is the white trashiest thing I've ever... And now you know the tallest structure in

Kingman. It's the stripper pole. Neither Shinetoberfest, Biker Atlas, Saddlesaw Ranch, nor any of its owner, staff, partner, sponsors, or affiliates are responsible for personal injury, property damage, old lady in wrong tent, old man in wrong tent, pregnancies, weddings, divorces, lost spouses, lost property, lost virginity. Gross. It says this on a website. This is a fuckfest.

This is a disgusting old person. Yes. Gross three day. Everyone's got chili shits all over him with no showers fucking each other in a sweaty tent. Picture the people that go to that. Disgusting. Holy shit. Nobody you want to fuck.

Nobody. Not one. Worse than the Vanon people. Awful. Also, there's a place. If that's not shocking enough. Yeah. There's a festival called Shockfest.

What is this? I will give you one and only one guess as to who the musical headliners are. At Shock Fest? At Shock Fest. I fuck. ACDC. No, no, no. That's way too big.

That's the only thing I got for electricity. Think of the white trashiest thing you can think of. Is it Nugent? Nope. What is it? Oh, boy. Is it Kid Rock? It's Insane Clown clown posse of course come on

they're playing shock fest shock fest that was my next guess they're joined by tequila tequila uh mad child mushroom head and jelly roll yeah oh jelly roll is great oh there you go amazing well you can go up and sit in the fucking desert and watch him uh poor he's above this now well i hope when was that this is this year oh my jelly don't play this jelly back out of this icp is the headliner there he is god damn it jelly roll god damn it jelly roll that's sad fuck i don't know what's sad or him playing it or you being disappointed about it but crime rate in this town he's a big fat hillbilly that raps and has face tattoos that

sounds like he's in the right place so that's exactly where he should be at the shock fest with icp doesn't it the difference is he's talented but the way you described him sounded like and where's the part he doesn't belong yeah how does this happen and what's he reads shakespeare in between his fucking songs or what's going on he belongs crime rate in this town property crime is almost double. Really? Meth. Yeah. Surprise. Almost double. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about 50% high as well. This place is so dangerous.

Like I said, meth. Yeah. Not only is it dangerous, it's also a place to pass through. Right. Which is traditionally, throughout time, that's a good place to murder. That happens all the time off of freeways. How many different serial killers have they mapped on a freeway? It happens constantly.

Prior to that, pirates, ports is where you do your damage. Exactly. Route 66, this is on. You know what I mean? Get on, get out. This is the same type of shit. So here it is. Let's talk about a murder.

Oh, my goodness this is just a crazy ass thing that happened here this is we're gonna go back to 1996 not too far now back this is actually right before i moved to arizona really yeah 97 i was here this was just as bad i'm sure i was already sunburned already awful with half a finger and sunburned. Perfect. Arizona had already made you its own. Already adopted me. Already made you a native son. A sunburned, half-a-fingered kid.

An unfortunate son. That's clear water. That had been abused. That's Arizona. There he is. He'll walk it off. That should be the fucking terrible man. Tape tape oh jesus so in may of 1980 near anaheim california dorothy jane scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell she insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get

treatment while he waited for his prescription dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. 1996. We'll talk about a couple of people here. First of all, let's concentrate on Lita Kagan. or on Apple Podcasts. Very strange for a married couple, but he lives with her for a little while, then he doesn't, then he comes back. But it's not a contentious relationship.

They don't fight. There's no domestic violence. There's no like, they just... Or she lets him leave or she makes him. I don't know what it is. If it's an agreement that he takes off for a while, if that's what they've come to. I don't know what the hell their story is or their arrangement, but they seem to get along. That's all we know.

People seem to say they get along. Everybody's fine here. She has a 14-year-old son also that lives with them named Robert Delahunt. He lives there as well, and they all live together in Golden Valley. How they got there is a tragedy at best. Really? Basically, yeah. It's a bad year, 1996, for Lita.

She's having a very tough year. At the beginning, the year before that, she was a cook at a restaurant, had a house in Kingman, and was taking care of her son. And everything was going fine until she loses her job as a line cook in a restaurant when her arm was crushed in a fall. Oh, no. so i don't know if it was at work or off the job or whatever it was but i'm crushed her arm was crushed fucked it up and she couldn't prepare food anymore fault like is there a machine called a fall that took her arm that's what i mean i don't know if she fell on something or if something fell on her it's a hard fall it's i'm not positive but either way crushed arm hard to cook with a crushed arm

essentially so um then she the home that she had in kingman burned to the ground after she crushed her arm so now she's unemployed with a crushed arm and everything that she has has been burned to the ground so and deaf leopard already has a drummer yeah it's that's you're not going to get a job there it's tough it's It's tough. It's tough going. Tough going in the 90s for you there. It's no good. Def Leppard's out of style anyway. You've got to have two arms to drum in the 90s, man.

The photograph is over. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It rode that wave. Yeah, a one-armed drummer in the 90s would have just been like, even if they were a great drummer, they would have been like, eh, dude, that's old. Somebody else got it. But I just have one arm. I can't help it. Yeah, but sorry, man.

Could you get another one? It's old, dude. It's like if you had big hair it's not gonna work anymore sorry but i i'm really good right sorry sorry so for oh this is so bad um during the summer of 1995 jesus christ kagan and on and off her husband. I hope for his sake mostly off, but on and off her husband and her son at this point lived in a tent. Oh, no. In the desert. Oh, no. In the summer.

She's got to wake up, look at her one arm, remember that her house burned down, and she lost her job. And now I'm in a Coleman. Now I'm in a Coleman in this summer'm in a coleman in this summer oh my you know how hot it is you know how hot it is up there it's it's it's hot up there it's as hot as arizona it's hotter i think up there i think you're right because bullhead city is like the high for the country half the time it'll be 122 degrees up there so it's it's hot man and to be up there too not for nothing but in the summertime it is scorpions and rattlesnakes and all sorts of shit in the desert at night i would not want to be in a fucking tent in the desert at night

i would not that is frightening yeah you are something's gonna try to get in there like there's no doubt about it something if you get out of there something out there is gonna try to pick you up and take you off yeah or run right in when you open the door so you are screwed like this is this sounds like the most awful thing in the world it's dangerous and then it got worse oh boy uh their car died as well so before that they at least had a car yeah and uh then their car died you just gotta figure the world's against you at this point yeah now you're you're sitting there with a crushed arm no job a 14 year old a dead car yeah with nothing no money in a tent in the desert and this guy comes back every three months yeah like what what do you even have this is what i mean this is to the point where i i don't

have i don't know if i have this kind of resilience you know i'm a kind of a depressive person in general right i don't know if i could if i wouldn't just be like well that's that's about as far as i can go here i think i've i've played the hand out as long as i can go i think i think i've bluffed the world enough that's what i mean i can't do it i am ass out like yeah i don't know what you don't even know how you buy food like you're just fucked she was depending on the kindness of strangers to give her food and people and it's just it's brutal man this is a horrible way to live finally the summer, a woman from Kingman took pity on them. Thank God.

Jesus. Somebody. I think somebody would help this woman and her son. She's got a kid. I hate pity, but I get it. Yeah, but still, it's, I mean, somebody. At some point, pity is all you got. Yeah, but I mean, pity or whatever the fuck it is.

Who cares what it is? Some sort of help. At some point, just some human help to go, hey, look, here's a lifeline of some kind. Here, survive. You can't be surviving out there. And that's no way

for a kid to live either, obviously. They can't help. He's a 14-year-old kid. It's not like he can go get a job. It's like, well, I don't see you helping out. I'm 14.

He's sure probably not going to school, right? My job is to do homework and on and off. He's sure probably not going to school, right? My job is to do homework on and off. He's always described as very unkempt. He's just like a dirty. He lives in the desert. He's a desert child.

He doesn't. There's nowhere to bathe. I feel you, buddy. You know, there's nowhere to bathe. There's nowhere to do anything. They're homeless, essentially, in the desert, which is worse than being homeless in the city. Might be. It is.

I mean, it's worse than being homeless really anywhere. is i think it is at least in the city there's a dumpster there's shade i mean i'm not saying that it's good to eat out of a dumpster but you know me i give money to fucking homeless people i hate seeing homeless people like i just don't i don't i don't like seeing people suffer yeah especially like that i have a thing about food okay it's just a thing you're italian yeah i was raised you have no idea i'm like my grandmother's crazy with the food and like the food's the most important thing it is and she just pushes it on to everybody and you take water yeah right but to them never mind water it's that's that's secondary it's in there it's it's all moist don't

worry about it that's how they The noodles have been in it. Just eat it. Just eat it. You'll moisten right up. Don't worry about it. Tomatoes are mostly water. It's fine. Olive oil sticks around longer.

It's good. Yeah, it'll coat your stomach. Don't worry about it. It comes out of your pores slower. It means you're... It's a slower, more cooling sweat. You persevere. But it's true.

My grandmother could never see anybody hungry. If there was a homeless person and she had food, she'd be, oh, my God, take the food. She can't. It's just something about food. People need to have food. Maybe it's because I've always had food forced on me. And it's also they've been through the war and they know what it's like to not have it. Well, that's the thing.

For her, I get it, man. She grew up fucking under fascist Mussolini in fucking Italy. And then World War II happened and then lived under the Nazi invasion for fucking however many years. Rationed food or no food at all. That's what I mean. Waiting in lines for it. Waiting in line. And then you have it plentifully.

You've got to make sure everybody gets it. The men have to hide in the mountains, too. So the girls have to tend the farms and shit. But then they also have to hide in the fields so they don't get raped by the nazi soldiers it was a real fucking precarious time period so is it more tragedy to lose a batch of food to mold or spoil than lose a child it was it was because kids come and go but that food could be controlled you can't control whether your kid dies of some weird disease when in the 30s in Italy, but you could control eating. So, yeah, the food was a big deal.

So, I mean, yeah, she never threw a goddamn thing out. You ate everything and she's the cheapest woman alive. But I get why. Yeah. You know, that's why. So, this, man, I couldn't imagine seeing a mother and son out there and I would be like, take whatever you can take. I don't care if she's a crackhead and they're not but i mean even if they were i don't give a shit that doesn't matter they're still

human beings so to eat there's still people got to eat that's crazy i'm i love giving people food and the sauce is delicious yeah take it i'd be so here i did such a great job i'm telling you you're gonna compliment me try it you're gonna fucking love it so they offer this woman in kingman offers her and her son lita and robert uh the use of did i say robert i meant i didn't mean no yeah robert robert delon i'm sorry uh uses the offers them the use of a double wide trailer fantastic that has seen better days yeah but it's two it's it's pretty it's bad it's bad it's it's more shelter than a tent right but it's not terrific there's still things inside it's golden valley it's in there um no air conditioning no running water uh floors rotting out holes in it

everywhere tent too uh yeah and apparently once she moves in and everything there will be dog and cat shit scattered throughout this thing as well. What? It's a nightmare. Think about what a nightmare that sounds like, living in that. She didn't have the cats and dogs in there? Like, when she got in there, they were already there? It was there, and then there's more when she gets there.

So it's not kept, man. There's holes in the floor. It's still a tough life. This is brutal. We've still got a long way to go. This is just a bigger tent, is what this is. That's all it is, except with holes in it. At It's still a tough life. This is brutal. We've still got a long way to go. This is just a bigger tent is what this is. That's all it is, except with holes in it. At least a tent zips up.

This has holes in the fucking floor. Things can get in. So this is rough. This is rough going. Now, she's a really nice woman, though. Everybody has nothing but nice things to say about Lita. They're just like, what a hard luck case because she were she was working doing well had a job like it's not if you fall and injure yourself

and then your house burns down those are two things you cannot control and that can really fuck your life up without one bit of your own input so that's rough that's not like well she'd made a bad decision or a bad choice that's just shit she should be struck by lightning and you know it'd be better luck than this i don't know man so she would take in stray dogs and cats all the time which is how there was shit scattered everywhere okay and also people she'd take in stray people and dogs and cats and she's just like a kind person that would let anybody do anything. She knows what it's like to be lost.

And that's the thing. And she tries to help others, and she's a kind person. I mean, just a kind person. So anybody that would kind of drift by, she would take them in for a couple days. She even adopted a – she filled out a form to adopt a wild burrow from the federal government that had plans to take in she wanted to get a wild burrow the donkey apparently yes and she wanted to take in pot belly pigs and geese to live in the on the property oh my god why i don't know this property is uh a shitty beat-up double wide trailer with holes in the floor.

No air conditioning, running water and cat shit everywhere. That's that's the main house. Then there's a travel trailer that looks like it hasn't been there a while. Hasn't traveled in decades. It's a stationary trailer now, but it's one of those little weird. It's it's traveled. And then a bunch of rusty car frames like like frames, like in a junkyard from the from the 30s.

You'd see like rusted car frames. And somebody gave this to her or just they're letting her stay. That's what they're letting her stay there for as long as she needs to. She wants to fill out paperwork to adopt things on a property. Stay there. It's an oh, my God. This isn't a place you stay. No.

I mean, it's free, but it's free for a reason. It's also free to live on the sidewalk. It's also free to live in the park or in the desert or somewhere like that. It's a shithole. That's why it's free. Right. It's because nobody else wants it. No.

That's why it's cheap. Exactly. So, I mean, there it is. So, one of her friends here from Kingman said, quote, Lita would rather go out and sleep under a railroad bridge herself than not take in stray people and animals. Usually she had a good karma about it, but this time she made a really bad mistake. So coming here and the whole thing, but that's how she was.

She would sleep on the floor. So some stranger she met could take her bed. Ridiculous. Yeah, she's some sort of weird biblical figure. It's strange. I'm not giving my bed away. No, she's uncannily kind in a weird, almost psychologically damaged way rather than kind.

That kindness is almost a sickness. Yeah, it's a detriment to yourself. That's what I mean. It's not a bad thing, but it hurts you. It's great to be outgoing and charitable, but when it's ruining your life, yeah. After a while, it's self-sabotage. It's the same thing as doing self-sabotage shit to yourself. It's obvious if you're hurting yourself just helping others, you're just finding an excuse sometimes for yourself. Playing scratchy tickets, at least there's a possibility of a payoff there's

no payoff in giving somebody your bed no no but i mean i guess if you're unless you're that karma like i centric yeah if you're that much believing in karma you're putting your money where your mouth is you know if it karma or if you're that much a religious person or whatever and you're saying my kindness is going to pay off. I can't think like that. Me neither. I don't have that in me. That's just not the way my brain works. I do my best to be as kind as possible.

Fuck. No, I don't. Yeah, I just put it. Not to take food out of my kid's mouth. But I mean, not for that reason. I don't have like if I do some crazy shit, there's going to be karma or a reward in the next life or in the afterlife. I'm just, no, I don't see any of that shit. I didn't know for that moment.

Yeah, I just feel bad for people and it makes my stomach feel gross and then i need to do something it's that it has nothing to do it's that fucking visceral of it i'm a literal piece of shit yeah i feel bad this moment i'm gonna be nice i don't feel good yeah this person looking at them makes me not feel good about myself and i need to help them and like that's yeah i don't know that's not better or worse it's just the only reason i do it it's a physical reaction i feel gross here take this i don't know i don't know that's is it is it a point like oh my god that's horrible i can't look at that being that horrible no i just no i feel i i i have a weird empathy man and. I have a weird thing. I'm a dick a lot, you know that, and I try to whatever, but I have a weird, weird empathy

that like things bother me for like weeks. But financially, you got to understand that giving that homeless guy 20 bucks is not fixing it. No, no, no, that's what I mean. He's going to be right back. No, absolutely. But I mean, for a half hour he might feel better you know what i'm saying that's all i'm i know i can't fucking fix the world

that's what i'm saying no i know i can't fix the world but i can make somebody happy for that night okay so i look at it like that like that dude's gonna have a much better night all right if i give him 20 bucks than if he's like freezing on the street nobody's giving him shit so that's the way i look at it like i that's all I can affect right now. I don't have resources or anything. Here's our platform. Help people who are in need. That's what I can do.

But outside of that, now that's on you. I can't come to your house and make you do it. I got a large coffee at Starbucks the other day, and the lady in front of me paid for mine. Mine was $2.79. Then I was like, oh, that was so nice. What's the person behind me got? And they go, $18.60. I was like, i'm not trading a two dollar cup of coffee for their 18 order

fuck this greedy asshole behind me with 18 dollars worth of coffee probably got that then i'm gonna go on he knew what was going on he was in cahoots with the lady in front think about that shit think about that that's the fuck that's a scam like this guy no way that's a total scam that you could do right i would that's a total scam one car in let somebody get behind you and then get in behind you look at you were in your work truck too and yeah they knew you were buying a coffee for you not for anybody else they knew that shit they they they fucking uh double-ended you there bookend they bookended Book-ended your ass. Book-ended me for $20 in coffee. Tried the jacket for $20.

And I saw through it. Boom. I'm like, I'm not doing that. That's crazy, right? And the Starbucks goes, yeah, I wouldn't do it either. I was like, all right, I'm leaving. Yeah. This is good, right?

I'm taking a free coffee and leaving. Yeah, no, no, no. I win, right? What about the one-two cars back? What do they got? How about that? How far back down the line can we go? How far I got to go back to get below a large cup of a large before i get somebody with just like a plain hot chocolate do i

get that who's got the small back anybody that's the guy i want yeah nothing fancy in there please no squirts anything no sprinkles or anything just that guy cream squirts or sprinkles and a starbucks line you're not finding that person i'm the only one you're the guy i'm the only guy it's not a 75 asking for a small black coffee just a couple of creams just didn't want to make it at home that guy it's a couple of half and halves in there i'll pay for that one this is just the closest one to his house oh man so april of 1996 uh she's in this trailer and she's in there with her son and they come across a particular young man he is it's in laughlin they seem to be back and forth to laughlin a lot for some reason and uh they find a young man in Laughlin who's 19 years old and homeless on the streets

of Laughlin and of course she is drawn right to this person and her son and everything so her son is the one who finds him and befriends him the 14 year old he brings him to the mom and I found my friend here he doesn't have anywhere to stay can he come home with us basically found a lost puppy here and the mom goes of, of course he can. He's on the streets. He's homeless. Yeah, we can't have that. He's just a kid. So they do.

They take him back to Golden Valley. Although he's not a kid. He's 19. That's a man. He can get a job. That's different. Robert Poison is his name. Stop it.

His name, and I repeat, is Robert Poison. Boy, oh boy. P-O-Y-S-O-N. Po-n poison still spells it his name is poison jimmy have we had a fucking his name is poison this is ridiculous in a movie you go well we can't call one of the characters poison that's gonna people are gonna think something's off this guy cancer yeah we'll know he's the we'll know he's terrible in narcos one of the worst hit men in the colombian cartel there and car and uh and pablo's crew was named fucking poison that was his name it's a bad guy it's a bad guy he's shot like was like yelling at people to shoot babies good lord he's going shoot that baby and he's like

why we don't have to shoot the baby because Because my name is Poison. My name is Poison, idiot. Are you stupid? What do you think here, jackass? And I'm not Bret Michaels. There's no Rose, no Thorn. Kill the baby. No, but I am armed, so shoot the baby in the face. All right, then.

That's a terrible sentence. It's a terrible sentence, but it is funny for some reason hilarious because how have you ever heard those words before that's why put together shoot the baby in the face it's very rare even if someone was telling someone to shoot a baby rich let's be realistic that's as horrible as it is you it's a baby it's a very small target area you wouldn't have to specify in the face probably anywhere you shoot it would be pretty close to the face enough i would say you know shoot the baby in the face is extra like it's a sting that's some oomph to it wow okay that's the name of the episode shoot the baby in the face no it's not no one would listen to it be like god that's terrible lord we'll wait for next week

there's baby shot in the face this is awful awful. I don't want to hear this. So Robert has had some problems, as you might imagine. One of the few ways you end up homeless at 19. No matter how bad your family is, still, you've had to have some issues. You've contributed. Something has had to happen. He has committed several problems, offenses in the past. He's had burglaries, assaults.

He served time in a detention center. He's from Nevada. He spent a lot of time in Jackpot. Yeah. Yeehaw. There's Jackpot, Nevada? Jackpot. Didn't we do a place called Jackpot, Nevada?

I don't think we did. But we talked about Jackpot being close. There's a hotel there. Up north. It's over by Reno, I think, maybe up there. He served stretches of time in the nevada youth training center for boys in elko the uh caliente nevada youth center and from 92 to 94 the idaho department of juvenile correction center in saint anthony okay and he's 19 he's not and he was

released when he turned 18 that's why they released him from juvenile custody that's what he was released when he turned 18. That's why they released him from juvenile custody. That's what his sentence was until he was 18. So, I mean, essentially, he's been just in because 92 to 94. He's 19 and 96. So, I mean, Jesus Christ, 17 was 92 to 94. So, 15 before. So, basically, from like 14 to 18, he's just been locked up most of the time for various offenses. And then he's 18, released and has nowhere to go. Obviously, probably a terrible family if that was his childhood anyway.

And then in addition to that, he's 18 and he's on his own on the streets. Puke him out into Laughlin. That's it. He just wanders down to Laughlin because that's people go where if you're homeless, it's easier to go where people are. Yeah, there's people. There's money. There's food. There's things gambling. So people give you cash.'s what i mean someone has a good night they see you they're gonna throw you some cash you're gonna get lucky in vegas i've seen people give people give homeless guys hundreds of dollars in vegas just

like hey look at this guy look what i did yeah literally throw people hundreds in guys hands they go fucking cartwheeling away it's crazy man all of a sudden they're able-bodied yeah hey no they well i've seen them more like they're they're they look like they have health issues yeah and they're given a large bit of money they'd fucking skip that's adrenaline yeah adrenaline will do that to you adrenaline will do that to you what happened if you gave that guy a job that's probably cartwheel i think in a back into a backflip. Maybe. I'm not sure. So he's had a lot of problems, like we said here. He lives there for a while. Like we say, he moved in in April of 1996.

He lives there for a few months, and he's not doing anything. It's not like there's work here to be had or anything like that. So he's just sitting in the trailer with the three of them, sitting in the trailer through as the summer comes to bake in a desert trailer you know how hot it is in there no ac no swamp cooler no nothing i mean there's nothing there it's just a a trailer sitting in the desert not hooked up to shit oh my god so we're talking shit bucket people yeah there is a multiple bucket situation going on right now that one there's for pooping yeah that one's for your morning don't mix them don't mix them i assume everyone's got their own bucket the pee rehydrates it and then it smells and then it's just called so you got to put it out in the sun so it done petrified

you want to turn it into like rock poop you got a real bacon out there and then you just fling it you skip it like a stone we could use it for firewood later so uh he ends up another lock on the fire put another log on hold on i'm almost done i ain't ate much in the last couple days i don't know what you want i was at the chili cook-off i kind of lost most of it there it's not much of a walk between the everclear and the chili i'd done been cleaned out and then whatever i caught from that guy that just wandered into my tent jesus christ old man just wanders into your tent old man yeah old lady old man god damn it lost virginities aren't a problem i don't know what the hell's going and there was more shit to talk about we just running out of time but all i wanted to get to uh make fun of insane clown posse as well obviously obviously had to get to that so yeah he ends up meeting a

couple of people uh in laughlin uh young frank poison yeah i can't believe our robert poison no robert's son no they're both named robert they're both named robert so robert and robert poison and della hunt yes at least poison is not as really hard to forget that's good Robert. No, Robert's the son. Both of them are Robert? They're both named Robert. Oh, boy. They're both named Robert. So Robert and Robert. Poison and Delahunty. Yes. At least Poison is really hard to forget. That's good. So he meets in Laughlin a couple of other people that have had some problems here. And we'll find out how they got there.

They are Frank Winfield Anderson. He is 48 years old, and his companion is Kimberly Lane, who is, and I'll say this clearly because 48 sounds like 14. Oh, boy. So we won't say what that is at the moment. Maybe it's a mentorship. Maybe it's her uncle. It's her grandfather. We don't know.

Yeah, it could be her grandfather. So on August 10th, 1996, they were hitchhiking in Las Vegas and picked up by a man who knew Lita Kagan. So this is how this works. And their story is a bit of a trip, too. I'll tell you in a minute how they got there. But they meet them there. I think it was Lita's husband who actually met them, who actually was the first to make contact with them elliot in one of his on stints sure he ends up being gone after this though um he anderson told the kagans that he was kimberly's father that's what he said this is my

daughter kimberly you know we've had some hard luck we're on the road you know the story um but kagan elliot kagan said quote i had a bad feel about the whole thing because they sure seem to be touching each other a lot this has a real cousin eddie ring to it here this is very cousin eddie dad says i'm the best dad said daddy says i'm the best everybody french daddy says i'm the best gross jenna maroney young jenna maroney fuck man i never realized never put it together until i saw vacation like two years ago when it's fucking jenna holy shit wow it's pretty impressive she did a great job yeah she was great she's been

funny for that ever since for 40. That's good for her. So, yeah, she actually the real deal there is Kimberly Lane had been Anderson's next door neighbor. Frank Winfield Anderson's next door neighbor. So in a seedy trailer park in Lancaster, California, north of L.A., white trash. It's bad. It's trash. Pure trash. Especially of la white trash it's bad it's trash pure trash especially you know it's just trash trash trash and there's she lived 14 year old living next door to a 48 year old he moved there after serving four months in jail of course for trying to have financial records burned at a previous trailer park that he managed so he was he's a he's scamming a trailer park he's a seasoned trailer park professional is what he is he does not he's like a house what's that oh you mean oh like well you should take it off the ground yeah

maybe put some wheels on and you'll have something there yeah he's mr john Trailer Park over here, Frank is. So, wow, that's a sad reason to go to jail. Maybe the saddest? I was going to say. Apart from, I mean, there's obvious real downtrodden. Oh, yeah, yeah. But that is just, if you announce that, why are you here? Exactly, exactly. That's exactly where I was going to.

Because I scammed a trailer park. On the cell block, and you're going, what you in for, man? And he's like, I did some shit. Like what? Man, a Ponzi scheme on Winnebago. I robbed some other guys. Like I did a home invasion. Robbed a family.

I killed a little girl. Didn't mean to, but you know, she wouldn't shut the fuck up. Shot the baby in the face. Wouldn't shut the fuck up. My boy was like, shoot the baby in the face. And I was like, yo, you know, adrenaline got to me. And I fucking, I just did it, man. Shot the baby in the face.'t shut the fuck up my boy was like shoot the baby in the face and i was like oh you know adrenaline got to me and i fucking i just did it man shot the baby in the face you know what i mean so i'm in here for that what are you in here for he's like well here's what i did i took a match and i set fire to the wreckers of a trailer park because i'm the who was that

motherfucker you set fire to a whole trailer park you managed man that's cold-blooded man you probably killed more babies than me probably just a paperwork financial crime okay what'd you say make it over there for let me rape you right now let's go you telling me that you stole lot fees yeah what are you talking about using hoa fees for your own devices what's happening here with you would you buy a fucking golf cart yeah what unauthorized golf cart purchase what the hell's happening here so he burned finance this is i mean this is the most stupid stupidest thing i've ever heard of going to jail but he's up to the ante it sounds like yeah uh well and then he gets out of jail for that, moves in next door to this family who has

a 14-year-old girl who he quickly becomes romantically involved with. That's up in the ante. 14! Yeah. Well, he was embarrassed by the non-street cred he got on the block. Yeah, I guess so. So she was impressed by it. She was like, you just got out of jail?

Cool. And he was like, yeah, man, I'm tough. Well, wait till the boys on the block hear about this. They're going to be impressed that I can pull it. Wow. This is disturbing. So they become involved, and this man's, remember, 48. They sneak away on foot in the middle of the night.

You know, run away like a 14 a 14 year old troubled girl does who's coming from a shitty family i could see her running away in the night but 48 year old men don't have to run away in the night they can leave at any time of the day with their suitcase in plain sight because you're an adult sir but if you're running away with your romantically involved ninth grader maybe maybe not. Jesus. Let's probably, ninth grade means she passed every grade. Right. Coming from this environment, eighth at best.

At best eighth grader. Wow. That is, fuck. Oh, my. Okay, we're not even close to 48 years old. No. Okay. Now, right now, at at your age imagine a 14 year old being romantically interested in you you're like oh no what's wrong with you we need to get you to like

a therapist are you okay like she needs a doctor or like somebody to talk to we gotta get you out of your parents are you okay and into somewhere safer who's doing stuff to you not my house what did your dad do to you like i would have a lot of questions that i would want you know supervision while she answered because i don't want to be in the same room with a chick that's got right a young girl who's got desires and things that like you know because you could get in trouble and they could say things happen yeah shit happens i don't even be near her based on the fact that false allegations don't talk to me anymore don't talk to anybody talk to police i don't talk to other people's children i'm not doing it unless you're standing right there i'm not talking to

your children just in case you never know i'm not doing shit the last because i don't i don't get it man i don't get what the fuck a 48 year old man could possibly see in a 14 year old girl to want to to not see them as a child that you're supposed to protect and to see them as a sexual object is bonkers to me. That's a child. It's not just for the legalities of it because the number that they set is disgusting in the first place. Yeah, that doesn't even matter. And this is four years much younger than that. No way.

That's not even a matter of legality. It's a matter of if you talk to, if I have a 13-year-old son and I've talked to, I remember when my daughter was 14, she had 14-year-old friends, and they're not adults. No, that's not. You wouldn't think of them like that. There's no sex there. No, you think of them as children. I'm thinking of them as seven-year-olds when they're 14. Never mind.

Ten years from now, Jimmy, imagine you're like, yeah. My son is two years away from that age i'm disturbed and yet the other day i cried in the grocery store as i bought man uh soap for him because he's in the point where like he can't wash his armpits with soft yeah yeah he's got he needs a and even still that like buying him an adult thing i'm like he's not an adult this is fucking weird no it is and i felt terrible because my kid's too grown up to be a baby that's still a fucking child exactly it's hard to comprehend but this guy's like i'm gonna have sex with that oh my god and run away in the night which is just gross man so okay they run away in the night uh which i'm just disturbed about and uh he told her that he was a big shot mafia guy yeah that's what he told her so they're usually

they're usually an hour outside of la in a seedy trailer park just getting out of the fucking county that's where they usually are having sex with 14 year olds and going on the run with them because that's what mafia guys do yeah that's what god he got put away for it was very sad al capone that's what he went down for eventually. The only way a mafia guy does that shit is right before his army of capos fucking kill him in the streets. Murder him, yeah. Yeah, exactly. This is the shit that mafia guys have people disemboweled for.

You know what I mean? He did what? Who's little girl? Fucking people. What are we going to do? Yeah. He'd find his fucking intestines draped over a lamppost his own dick in his mouth yeah exactly so he said that he was going to oh my god oh no he said he was going to take her to kentucky of course he was why do you think they're going to kentucky so we could get married

so we can get ourselves hitched. Oh, boy. Kentucky, change your fucking laws if that's legal. Kentucky. Oh, boy. I'm going to speak to you. It's just me. Kentucky, no.

It's just you. Don't look around. It's not just me and you. Are you listening? Eyes right here. Eyes on here. Yeah, that's right, Kentucky. Me and you.

Let me tell you something. kentucky me and you let me tell you something people are coming from far and wide to legally fuck teenagers in your state that is not what tourism is i get that that's a stream of tourism i understand that there's not much else will be full the kentucky Derby's only one fucking day a year. I get it. I understand. Okay? Oh, boy. Louisville can only play so many home games. Understood.

Put some money in the Ali Museum. It's wonderful. Jesus Christ, please change it so. Imagine being the magnet for underage marriage aspirations. for underage marriage aspirations. Any place that's the lowest age should always be upping it. You know what I mean? We're the ones now? Oh, Jesus Christ.

We're 25. We gotta raise it. It's 25. It's now 26. We're sorry. Whoever's lower than that. No sex before menopause, really. We can't have it.

Once you're shutting down, then you can start doing it. Otherwise, we're sure the number's arbitrary anyway it's disgusting and men not vile you can you can't have sex before your first prostate exam that's it you need to have a prostate exam fully once you're of that certain age then yeah feel free to plow away we're sorry we have to err on the side of caution here absolutely people are coming with fucking eighth graders to marry him here this isn't okay it's horrible he told her that they would get married and she would be at that point anointed a quote mafia goddaughter oh boy so that's why she's down with this she's gonna this is gonna be she's gonna be his mafia i don't know what's

happening if you can be convinced of that you shouldn't be fucking anybody no because you're a child yeah you can she i can't if you can be convinced of anything of that source she expected yeah probably two to three years before this expected a large bunny to bring her chocolate think about that very short right time period yeah just recently he was over 45 and she was still expecting a giant rabbit to deliver her chocolate december 24 she's thinking about the past 50 weeks and her behavior exactly exactly not where it is to legally marry a fucking teenager what's happening holy fuck it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm

ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook,

where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro,

who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family.

But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I can't even with these people, man. So yeah, they end up, they take off they made it as far as southern las vegas or southern nevada yeah before running out of money 50 50 miles yeah they were going all the way to how did you think you were going to get to kentucky right when you didn't even get you

got one state you drove 45 minutes yeah out of money well shit that was expensive i didn't expect that shit dollar 25 a gallon how are we gonna make it jesus i don't understand 40 bucks what did he think was gonna happen what he thought how he was gonna get that seems like a way miscalculation that's a he didn't carry the one somewhere he missed a decimal, for sure. He looked at his bank account and goes, $4,000. We can make it. Oh, $4,000? That was $40,000.

Oh, shit. That's not right. I should have learned damn dyslexia again. Shit. He missed the difference between dollars and cents. It's not like he made it to like missouri no and they were like oh they miscalculated by a state because they're not that bright and something was more expensive and you know whatever they barely got out of the state

there's no he's out he's out so they once they met they were hitchhiking in Vegas, and that's when they met a guy who once rented a room from Lita in Kingman. So he sent them to the trailer in Golden Valley, dropped them off in Golden Valley, and said, go find the trailer with the rusted car frames everywhere, and that's your lady. She's going to let you guys stay there. She'll be okay. car frames everywhere and that's that's your lady she's gonna let you guys stay there she'll be okay so they go there it's on yavapai lane which dead ends into a big like a big dead end of bushes filled with trash yeah that's what that that's the street they live on a dusty road dusty dirt road with bushes filled with trash with shitty trailers with holes in them with rusted car frames this is what we're talking about here.

This is disturbing. I'll show you a picture in a minute here that I'll post on social media. It's called Freedom. That's Freedom right there. May as well be Freedom Lane. They have the freedom to enjoy the outdoors and not be held down by the constraints of electricity and food and water and money deposits no deposits

that's off the grid i would say way off the grid so uh there they come on and they're they're told that they need a place to live and lita invites them right in come on and stay in the trailer that's great um while they're there they meet robert poison who is also staying there and they get along like gangbusters especially he also likes this kimberly lane as well so we don't know she is like kind of yeah there's multiple things going on here so he also likes her yeah and uh yeah this is disturbing so again 1914 not acceptable either sorry so they end up staying at the trailer um they're there for a little bit they don't they're there for uh a couple of weeks they're sticking around i think it's about seven a week and a half they're hanging out and kimberly wants to get out of there after like three or four days oh sure

it's miserable yeah It's miserable. Yeah, it's miserable. I mean, the trailers in Lancaster is paradise compared to this. This is disgusting. It's the middle of the summer, too. It's August. Hot. Miserable.

115 degrees. Oh, boy. In a trailer with no AC, with the sun beaten on it in the middle of the desert. There's no shade. No. No shit like that. It is just barren. This is rough, running water no running water she had faucets in the trailer in lancaster that's what i mean you can't even go and when you're that hot go just splash water on

your face you know what i mean just to just to take a little bit of the sting off she can't even do that horrible i don't even know what to say about that man no like i said holes in the floor there's shit everywhere there's cat and dog shit all over the place so uh she convinced uh anderson the 48 year old like we got to get the fuck out of here i can't take this anymore and um yeah and robert poisons like i've been i gotta get out of here too like homeless is one thing but this is this is horrible. Like, I can't live like this anymore. So they're like, we have no way of getting out of here.

They're this is end of the line. I mean, you're you're at the end of a dead end filled with trash, man. There's nowhere to go. There was like a metaphor walking up to this place. It is. It is rock bottom, rock bottom, end of the the line end of the road yeah done they have no transportation they're basically stuck here forever yeah unless a miracle happens and somehow they come into some form of money which you would have to leave here to get because there's nowhere

here to get money you're stuck here forever so it's either leave or die here that's pretty much it yeah those are your only options though so i mean wanting to get out of there is a very smart thing to do you know we got to get the hell out of here what are they going to do but in the entire property there is only one usable vehicle in the entire everything and that belongs to a guest of lita. Another person staying here for a while. Oh, my God. Why? Yeah.

No, a full house. Yeah. Full house. No vacancy, man. There's four people already there and Elliot coming back and forth, too. So we're all adults. This is ridiculous. Well, one child, obviously.

Right. So this is a guy named Roland Ware. This could be a great sitcom. this could be a great sitcom this would be a great somebody wrote it in a funny way yeah where they had some humility and self-awareness and knew this was fucked up that's well you could use rather this would be like extreme trailer park boys trailer park boys next generation yeah but your your shitty punch lines could be like when uh remember when like married with children they'd use like a toilet flush as a punch line you could use like somebody you know fall through the floor or stepping in some stray cat shit tripping over

a bucket or whoops i fucked a 14 year old damn it oh shit i still oh that was your shit bucket i shit in oh man i thought my shit funny. I didn't remember having no corn. Oh, man. God damn it. You got me. Da-da-da-da-da-da. I'm sorry. I don't know.

So they're picked up there. So, I'm sorry, Roland Ware here, he's got a pickup truck. He's there. It's a friend of Lita. So they decide, we need to get this pickup truck. Okay? We need to get this truck, take it, and get the fuck out of here. If we can get out of here to somewhere else where we can get rid of the truck

and just get some hitchhike out of something, somewhere, we can make a dollar somewhere and get out of there. We need to go, though. They want to go to Illinois. That's the goal. Okay? That's the goal okay that's the goal where first it's kentucky then to illinois because that's where he has his mafia connections and they will live their you know their true life as mafia royalty once they once he you know marries a child right a middle schooler in uh kentucky so he uh anyway this whole deal now robert delahunt i feel

bad this 14 year old kid i mean he lives in the shittiest of environments and he can't even like have that environment to himself right he's got to have all these weird borders all the time and very strange uh his everybody says he's got like tattered clothes he looks like huck finn of course after a day out and playing you know what i mean dirty and his clothes are fucked up yeah desert huck finn imagine that 1996 desert huck finn not great not positive no um well he overhears anderson kimberly lane and robert poison plotting to steal the truck okay so he overhears it and they find out that he knows they see him eavesdropping so basically he uh they bring him into the plot and they're like look dude we need to do this we got to get the fuck out of here clearly this is

awful like you know i know you're a kid but you know what the fuck we got to leave so we're going to do this we're going to steal the truck. Don't tell on us and make sure nothing happens and your mom will be safe. Nothing will happen to your mom or anything like that. But we got to get the truck. Just, you know, be cool about it. You don't know this Roland guy. Fuck him. You know, and he 14 year old Robert looked up to 19 year old Robert.

He'd gotten close to him because 14 you're looking for role models. You know what I mean? So that's just the way it is. Especially if you're Desert Huck Finn, you're looking for role models you know what i mean so that's just the way it is especially if you're desert huck finn you're looking for somebody your dad's in and out your dad's in and out you find a 19 year old kid that's a that's somebody worldly that's somebody oh he's been to jail too he's been around a little bit that's somebody worldly that you would look up to as a 14 year old so he says he would he said i'll keep i won't say anything i'll keep quiet i'll be cool about it you know i've been around scumbags don't worry i know how this works he's like you see how things work around here like alpha dog yeah he said man that's all he just said make sure to know

you know don't do anything to my mom leave my mom alone basically and they said of course yeah you keep quiet we'll leave your mom alone so um yeah the the truck belongs to 50 year old roland ware so anyway august 13th 1986 so they're only there for three days at this point um well i don't know what happened with kimberly but kimberly who was apparently i guess robert was also fooling around with in addition to the old man right this is gross sure this is just disgusting well apparently that day kimberly tells 14 year old robert to meet her out in the travel trailer there the no traveling trailer the no travel trailer for a little bit oh boy getting it on some afternoon delight yeah so this kid's 14 this is the first legal thing that's happened in this show yeah

that's what i mean this is the first thing that's sort of wholesome almost this is the most wholesome thing in the show two dirty tattered 14 year olds fucking in a disgusting no travel trailer is the most the most okay thing it's the most thing where you go, well, I guess. It's downright warm compared to the rest of this disgustingness. You know? Yeah. At least you could play like, you know, when like on The Wonder Years when Kevin Arnold and Winnie Cooper kissed or something.

You could think of it like that except dirtier and grosser with penises involved. Right. But, you know, you could put some sort of teenage romantic spin on it up until the dirty fucking positive spin of a young man coming into his own coming into his own yeah young love is right yeah whatever so oh my god so she lures him out there says yeah let's go in here come on let's get it on um this is the no travel trailer to describe it a bit it's sitting on concrete blocks out in the back it has a giant skull and crossbones painted on the side awesome so i have a picture of it oh my i will post that on social media that is also uh going to double as the stage for icp next

month first of all yeah that's not good this This is the... It used to be white. It's like stained. That's gross. It's the most horrible thing you could ever think of. And this landscape, it looks like the moon. It looks like the fucking moon, dude. Tell me that doesn't just look like not Earth. It's the worst place ever. If Kentucky had a space station, that would be it. Yeah, that would be it.

Broken down, no travel trailer. On the moon. Busted up windows on the moon. Watch out for the holes in the floor now. We're going to shoot an El Camino up there. Oh, you know it. It's going to be good. So, oh my God.

So, okay. August 13th, she takes him out to there. And there's like a disgusting, dirty, filthy mattress in there that's that's like in there all the time which imagine what lives under that and land in it in it in the summer yeah too there's scorpions everywhere absolutely so imagine that shit well they don't mind because they get down they're laying on the disgusting mattress intertwined making out yeah kissing getting it on man how disgusting is that in there feels weird for you describing oh i'm just it feels illegal doesn't it if you describe two 14 year olds yeah it does i don't feel like i i would be like oh god i shouldn't i shouldn't

know what this is yeah no i don't want any part of that you guys do all i shouldn't even remember what this looks like in my own experience yeah that's what i mean what do you have in common with these that's the other thing that's 48 what do you have in common i don't want to be around children who aren't my own never mind fucking try to fucking romance them so anyway uh it's at this point where anderson 48 year old and, busts into the trailer. Okay? And he's got a knife in his hand. Oh, no.

And he attacks young Robert while he's making out with Kimberly by cutting his throat. He takes a big slash at Robert's throat with a bread knife. Oh, my. So those are serrated and nasty. Oh, boy. Fucking nasty. I cut my finger with a bread knife and it was a nasty one so it tears your flesh apart it opens it it's not good so uh this now while he

does this he cuts him doesn't i guess get enough right away to kill robert because young robert bites onto his hand fighting back so uh he does this there's more there's a big you know there's a goddamn scuffle now with a bread knife and he's got his throat cut and there's blood everywhere by the way it's dark man it's this little shitty travel trailer back here so it's a it's a fucking disaster so robert poison hears the screams and struggles in there from from outside and he runs over to the travel trailer and uh busts on in and when he busts in anderson 48 year old man holds della hunt down and poison comes over and starts bashing his head against the floor oh my god yeah he didn't come to help no he came to help to help anderson so he comes he's bashing young robert's head against

the floor this fucking kid man uh you think baraboo guy went through a lot this is brutal this is brutal so so he's had his throat attacked he got his throat cut now they're ones holding him down while the other one's bashing his head against the trailer floor which i don't know how hard a trailer floor is, but it's still not good. No. So then at this point, they're also both pounding him in the head with their fists while they're doing this. They're both punching him consistently. They sliced his throat.

They're bashing his head on the ground. He's still conscious. He does not lose consciousness through this. He's trying to fight back as much as he can, but he can't because it's two bigger people men two men that's there's a difference between a 14 year old even a strong one and a man right we used to call it old man strength when i was a kid there's a different you have a different strength when you're older it's just different it's just you've been seasoned by by you've done things breaking rusty bolts and shit like that you've done things yeah when you go play like basketball and there'd be a team of 46-year-old guys

and they were slow and they were terrible, but fuck, they'd just knock you out of the way somehow because they had this weird old man strength. Strange shit. You had to play off of them anyway. Play a very motion-oriented offense with those people. So he's bashing him and bashing him. So he he's bashing him and bashing him while he's doing that.

Robert, Robert Poison steps away for one second to run outside and grab a rock to come in. And he does. And he takes it. And they're Anderson's holding him down, punching Della Hunt with his fists. Meanwhile, Poison comes in and starts bashing him in the head with a rock fuck as well still conscious jimmy oh no this fucking kid doesn't lose consciousness through all of this so tough he is a tough tough kid this is wild man so it's at this point that they go okay well this kid they expected that to be you know at least to knock him out by now, and then do whatever, but he's not. He's not dead. He's still conscious. So then they take the bread knife,

and Anderson holds him down, and Poison takes the bread knife and puts it in his ear and drives it into his... Oh, my God, why would you? Into his ear, Jimmy, to try to poke him in the brain and kill him because they can't kill him. But the way it's a hard your brain is your skull. There's bones and stuff.

And that knife is too big. The knife is too long. And the physics of it don't really work. And when they did it, they did stab him pretty good, but it didn't go into his brain. It ended up coming like all the way on his cheek and out of his nose. Oh my God. Out of his nose. Jimmy stabbed in the ear and then out through the nose with a fucking bread knife.

Oh boy. While they're hitting you with rocks and fists. And this is horrifying. This is, this makes Baraboo look like a fucking walk in the park. I'd rather have my legs broken repeatedly. This is horrible don't know what's just worse guess what he's not dead he's not dead oh my god he's still conscious jimmy he's screaming and struggling and asking why are you doing this to me right you know this is fucking horrific so holy shit so um i mean they

didn't know they were just like what the fuck this kid is bionic um so they just kept slamming his head in the ground and punching him and hitting him with rocks until he finally lost consciousness okay um all in all you know how long this lasted an hour 45 minutes yeah 45 minutes That's a tough kid. That is. How do you do that? I don't know. How can a person do that to another person for 45 minutes?

How does he bleed that long? That's the other thing. The resiliency of that kid is unbelievable. That kid could have been like the best MMA fighter ever. Like he's a resilient. He doesn't tap out. That's a tough kid. You can't knock him out. No. I've never heard of this before. like he's a brazilian tap out that's a tough kid you can't

knock him out no i've never heard of this before like he's been beaten repeatedly he will not go out and he was still struggling and fighting and like this kid is a hats off man to this kid well he's he's finally after almost an hour uh he finally dies after all this i assume uh it's from blunt blunt force trauma to the head and a blood loss as well. Obviously. Jesus Christ, man. Unbelievable. This is absolutely insane.

So they finally kill him. Kimberly Lane had ran out the second the knife touched Robert. She was out. She's 14. That was her part of the whole thing. So still to go. That's the kid out of the way. Didn't really need to do that no he

wasn't gonna talk he wasn't even gonna tell i believe dirty huck finn too i believed him so now lita and roland ware are in the main trailer they have the radio on they never heard they didn't hear the screaming as murderers though don't you go we can't even kill a 14 year old two of us could barely kill a 14-year-old. There's no way we're going to kill two adults. It's over, right? I would imagine so. Well, no.

They thought of it, we need to have a more efficient way of killing two adults. Because this, they figured, you know, it was a 14-year-old. You could cut his throat and he'd fall down. And then, you know, whatever, stab him a couple times and he's dead. Or hit him a few times. I don't think they expected. They don't expect people to have that fight for your life instinct that he had and a lot of people have and people at that socioeconomical area in that fucking yeah we're pretty fucking resilient

he's a fighter we can take a beating oh this kid's a fighter man yeah this kid's a fighter and it's like you know we neither of us grew up with a lot, but that is a different level of, this is a, this is a, this is a different level of horror. No, I was never stabbed in the face. Probably not. Never ear come out the nose. Really? Wow. I don't know if I could survive it.

That would, it sounds horrible. That's unbelievable. Uh, so they never heard Lita and Roland never heard the commotion out there. They didn't hear a word of it. They sitting in the trailer listening to the radio like nothing happened so it's at this point that lane distracts or kimberly lane distracts roland and lita so uh they can go in and wash up so anderson and poison can go in and wash because i guess there's some water in there in a bucket they needed to get to to wash the fucking blood off their hands so they didn't look so suspicious and at that point also they notice and they find roland ware has a 22 rifle oh christ so they're

like okay they grab the rifle they sneak it out of the house problem is that there's no ammunition right so they have a rifle with no bullets oh no so now what Right. So they have a rifle with no bullets. Oh, no. So now what do you do? You got a rifle with no bullets. It's still a weapon. It's still a weapon, but they said, let's try to get some bullets. So they said, let's go next door. There's probably the kid there.

The kid always answers the door. We'll ask the kid for some bullets. They'll have some bullets. They'll give them to us. This is the 90s, not the 40s, by the way. So it's very strange that everybody has bullets to loan imagine your neighbor knocked on the door you got any bullets like uh fuck off my property sir yeah so let's say these two 48 year old anderson 19 year old poison knock on your door and they go y'all got any bullets standing there with a rifle

what's your question hold on i do as i get the phone and call the police like right what do you think a nine-year-old or an eight-year-old girl says uh yes why really that's what she said she asked why why what do you need bullets this is the craziest thing in this whole story if you think you've heard nuts so far here it is this is the story that they give that they give this little girl yeah they say well we need to get two rounds from you we need two bullets because at least to see robert de la hunt you know next door because they know him right um yeah he's out in the desert surrounded by rattlesnakes just surrounded by him and he can't get out he's trapped by rattlesnakes he's like in an ind can't get out he's trapped by rattles he's like in an indiana jones situation where he's been backed into a corner surrounded by rattlesnakes that

are like holding back though at bay like stay there motherfucker we're gonna we're gonna get you all at once if we get those two rounds from you yeah he can get this very valuable black stone that's what it is he says that we we're going to need the bullets to, you know, fire a couple rounds off into the ground to scare the snakes away. Hit two snakes. The other snakes will get the point. They get the picture.

So they go, oh shit, I don't want that to happen to me. They've got bullets here. Yeah. So they, the snakes will scatter and we can rescue him from the rattlesnakes. And the longer you take standing here, the more snakes come.

There's just so many snakes. You have no idea. Run along. They got him trapped in the corner. He can't hold out much. Robert, we're coming for you, buddy. Hold him off. Just a minute longer.

Two.22 caliber long rifle. So she said, all right. Think my dad's got some went in got them two fucking bullets here you go god damn it what how good luck how's this a thing hope you rescue your friend hope the snakes don't get him hope i've bought you enough time the story is hurting my head man that's unbelievable so anyway yeah so there's they need there's a snake problem wait till she tells her dad what she did and he just goes you did what snakes what is he still that happened to me why was about a month ago the bastards got me just trap you in the corner, man.

Wow. Unbelievable. So what they do is then Poison and Anderson go outside, and they load the rifle, and they test the rifle. They make sure it's like the, you know. Yeah, the action works. Action works. It's all smooth.

They load it. They pop it out. Okay, everything looking good. I don't know. We shouldn't have any misfires around here. Make sure they can't do a test shot, obviously, because they've got two rounds rounds way to really be. Let me get four. Lots of four.

Two will be good. We're not, we'll be perfect here. The first murder didn't go so well, but I feel like this time it's going to be a piece of cake. So, wow. So he then loads the two rounds and loads the one round.

I think it's a one shot. This rifle. Probably. Yes. He says he has to load it again later. So he loads it with the one. That's having some real confidence in yourself, too, to steal somebody else's gun that you've never fired.

Oh, you have no idea. And I only need two to kill two people. You don't have a gun or bullets. I'm going to be perfect. Be perfect. Meanwhile, somebody else's weapon. What just happened right with a ninth grader right and a knife that is bigger than that child yeah which should have been longer than his

arm no problem to kill that kid without hurting him too bad he should have been able to take his head off pretty quick on that pretty fast one good swipe would have really taken across the have you ever seen a mob hit that's not like that that. That's not what it looks like. It's done well. Al Qaeda does it a little bit quicker than you two did. They have a much smaller, shittier knife. This is awful. Yeah, you guys should be fucking ashamed of yourselves. So they stash it in a shed, near a shed, next to the trailer.

Okay, that's what they do. Now, they let the evening go by. Roland and Lita don't notice anything. They don't notice that the rifle's gone. They don't notice anything. They don't notice that Robert is, he's Huck Finn. He's out there running around whitewashing fences. Who the fuck knows what he's doing?

He's in the wind. Yeah, hanging out with N-word Jim. I don't fucking know. Who knows what he's doing out there? Living dangerous out there. Living dangerous out there. So, you know, not that N-word Jim is dangerous, but he's just out there dangerous living dangerous out there so you know not that and we're dangerous but he's just out there hanging out doing his thing northern arizona

living is dangerous yeah exactly he's out in the desert so some hours go by some point in the evening because the one there is one amenity this trailer has one shelter one no besides that obviously but one amenity outside of just a you know a roof and that is a phone oh it does have a phone there's a phone line running i guess i don't know if they have a community line or what the fucking deal is but there is a phone right in the thing so that's one thing they have there wow great modern convenience so what they do is anderson and poison cut the phone line to make sure. Zero amenities.

Nothing. Now it's really just done. Zero stars. Zero stars. We've taken it all away. So they do that. They wait until dark. They just wait a while longer, darker, and then they chill it all out.

They then go get the rifle and they head toward the trailer. Now, what they do is Anderson holds a lantern because there's no fucking electricity. They have a lantern. How many 1996 murders take place by lantern light, Jimmy? None. Have we had anything? Number one. Okay.

Just wanted to make sure so he's going into the bunkhouse to bushwhack him right this is ridiculous turning up the propane yeah turn on up to turn up the whale oil you gotta be careful with those though because if you you can wake somebody up with those they're so fucking loud whistling sounds like a fucking air conditioner. Sounds like a window unit air conditioner. They fucking scream. Motel 6 air conditioner. So they enter the bedroom where they are sleeping.

They're both sleeping in the bedroom, both Kagan and Roland, just lying on their back, sleeping. They enter the bedroom. When they do, Kagan sits up of course she hears people she sits up when she fucking lantern yeah when she sits up robert shoots her in the mouth oh my this kills her immediately i don't know if it went through got her spinal cord or what but i mean quick she went down and was dead like that so at least she didn't suffer yeah um but still j, man, this poor woman did nothing to nobody, just laying there sleeping. What's that noise? And then she's dead.

Outside of being an amazing person, really. Yeah, a wonderful person, really a great person. If she had any resources, holy crap, imagine what she would have done for people. She was the most philanthropic person on earth. Yeah, she could have done great things for people, or at least tried to. She had the desire to, which is more than i can say for most people so good person anyway so she does that she dies instantly here so then as roland ware sits up next to her uh as this is going on roland starts to sit up he's got to reload the rifle with the other round he does that quickly

and shoots uh shoots roland in the mouth as well. Fuck is it shooting him? He's a good shot, this kid. He really is. He's a terrible, bad with a rock to the head, but with a goddamn rifle. He is Elmer Fudd or some shit. He's really got to. These hillbillies know how to shoot.

They do. Because that's all they do. That's all they do. They can't fucking read, so they got to do something. So put a goddamn book in front of this kid and go read aloud this paragraph and let me see who do it again yeah again and again exactly like you do with a gun yeah you'll get better at it but it's more fun to shoot i know it is louder it's i get it feels good i know it too but it doesn't kill him no the 22 bullet hits him shatters the teeth on the upper right side of his face hits him in the teeth shatters and and comes out his cheek so i mean that's how 22s are even a even a tooth will ricochet it off so that's exactly what happens

shatters all the all the teeth on the upper right side of his face. Shoots out his cheek. Ouch. So it's at this point where Roland starts to, you know, Roland starts to get out of the bed with the, you know, the pain. And he starts to struggle and go toward poison with the rifle to, like, grab the rifle and stop him from shooting him again. Yeah. When he does that, Anderson comes in and hits him with the lantern. Because that's all he's got. Dangerous. So he hits him with the lantern, shatters the fucking lantern everywhere.

So that happened. So now there's no light. So imagine this is a light with the light. Imagine what a disturbing scene. He shoots her, which is a flash of a muzzle in a dark, dark room with no electricity. Not an alarm clock light not a fucking you know apple tv there's nothing here right pitch black that happens then a lantern comes in fire from the muzzle struggle lantern swinging back and forth making that crazy fucking

light and then shadows swinging it and then it goes in and out what a horror scene yeah this is chaos and horror as while this is going on uh poison starts beating roland with the butt of the rifle yeah he just starts hitting him with the butt of the rifle so roland manages to get past them into the hallway and bust out the front door and run outside yeah so he goes outside and gets all the way to his pickup truck, keys in hand, trying to get the keys in the lock. As he's doing that, he can't get the keys in the lock fast enough as they attack him, knock him to the ground, beat him senseless, kick him in the head, beat him with the rifle, beat him with everything they could.

Finally, Anderson gets a cinder block and gives it to poison and poison drops the cinder block on him several times on his head to make sure that this is um over over with after kicking him and hitting him with the rifle and everything but the cinder block to the head finally ends it after a few of those good lord this is horrible it's the least uh expensive murder that i've ever heard of apart from bare hands yeah but took the longest took the longest and for the least amount of gain zero gain you're gaining a shitty pickup truck that doesn't belong to you you're gaining with an easy ticket to jail that's what you're gaining a stolen pickup truck and zero promise of getting anywhere safe no and no gas and

no money and because these we think they're all loaded sitting in there no they'd be in a fucking motel six if they had any money they wouldn't be sitting in the middle of goddamn desert zero forethought because that thing runs out of gas eventually and then you're fucked he's not doing it for insurance money like they're gonna get 200 grand if they had a big stash of jewelry or a bunch of cash in the safe. There's no reward. I've hated this person for years. No reward. The only reward is you get to fuck a 14-year-old together in a stolen pickup truck elsewhere.

That's all there is in the back of the pickup truck now instead of in your disgusting non-travel trailer. back of the pickup truck now instead of in your disgusting non-travel trailer they would have been better off honestly just waiting until lita and roland fell asleep stealing his keys stealing the truck and no one would have known until morning there you go you would have had a fucking eight hour head start and it'll get exactly the same distance at eight hours as it would if they're dead if they're dead exactly and you'll probably they, people will probably notice the dead bodies before somebody would have called about the truck. Right. So not smart.

Just a dumb, dumb fucking thing to do. But they had to do it, of course. So once he's dead, they took his wallet and his keys to his truck and they covered his body. They dragged him kind of behind some debris and put some leaves and debris, yard debris on top of him. So he's not obvious from the street. You know, just threw him back there. Left Lita in the bedroom.

Left Della Hunt in the no travel trailer. Hopped in the truck and off they go. Eastward. That's all. Over to Kentucky. Wow. So when they do find the bodies, della hunt imagine finding that you know he was found beaten beaten almost unrecognizable with a knife sticking out of his skull that's that was

the coup de grace once he was finally dead they just stuck the knife in his head basically so they see it like he's like a like a rump roast with a knife sticking out of the top of it. That's how they find this poor kid. This is awful. So everything they did had extra stank on it. Yeah, it's extra scummy. Extra stank. They really could have. Yeah.

With still zero to gain. Nothing. No gain. Extra stank with none of the gain. More of the stank. None of the gain, everybody. So what ends up happening on the escape is Anderson, while this is happening, apparently Robert Poison and Kimberly have become the hot item now.

They're ready to go to Kentucky to get married, apparently, rather than Anderson. He got shafted out of the whole thing. So over three days, he lost his teenage bride. No mafia goddaughter now. This is a fucking mess. So he drops them off in the Chicago area. That's where they want to be dropped all the way up there, all the way to Illinois. Wow.

Drops them off in the Chicago area from there because they're looking for these people. The bodies have been found. Everything is going. The bodies have been found. Everything is going. A phone tap ends up picking up a call from Kimberly to one of her relatives homes in California. They tapped all of her relatives phones in case she called because she's a child. And she will. Of course.

So they found that and that ended up leading police to an Evanston, Illinois, homeless shelter where poison and kimberly lane were staying jesus fucking christ um yeah oh um yeah so that uh we'll talk one more second here uh finally that's august 23rd they're busted so 10 days 10 days goes by lord uh anderson meanwhile was dropped them off and was driving the pickup truck in southern Illinois when a cop, a state trooper, got behind him, ran his license plate, and it comes up that it is wanted in connection with a multiple homicide in Arizona. So clearly, he's getting pulled over. And we know he doesn't have any guns or fucking ammo or anything.

He might have a gun, but it ain't going to work. It isn't going to work. So he is taken into custody. And while they search the truck, they find a purse containing ID and credit cards belonging to both Lita Kagan and Roland Ware. So he couldn't be caught more red-handed. It's ridiculous there. Now, Anderson, in the interrogation, he comes in. They sit him down.

The first two interviews, they don't say he won't say anything. Third interview, he starts talking. He admits that he slashed Delahunt's throat. But he says that I only did it because I ran in there

responding to Kimberly's screams, who was my girlfriend, that child, you know, that girl. So I thought that he was raping her so i heard her screams you know like i do you know like me i figure if i rape her who wouldn't just look at her you know obviously everybody's gonna rape her disgusting person so he said i burst in there with a knife hearing her screams and see you know him assaulting her so i cut his throat which is what you do to a 14 year old rather than you know punch him or pull him off and what the fuck are you doing you little shit go to your room

yeah not that rape would be a room but i mean it's he's i'm just trying to say you're an adult what are you talking about so he to show how much of a child he is. So then he says that he helped hold Della Hunt down while poison used the rock, the bread knife. When they put it in his ear, they used a rock. Oh, my God. To push it into his ear. It's so primitive. Bang.

Yeah. But like a like a fucking gorilla. Jimmy. Oh, my God. Bang, bang. And then just shot it out his nose that's how awful and brutal this shit was so that's his story though wasn't me yeah i came in tried to protect the honor of this poor young girl uh with a you know by cutting a ninth grader's

throat and then the other guy came in and did all the sick shit i I just held him down. You know, he's the ringleader at 19, not me. So, yeah, he said that he was shocked and terrified. He said that he was shocked that that poison went so far. You tried to cut his throat. What did you think the result of that was? Your first reaction. Reaction number one to save a girl from being raped is slit a child's throat. Slit a child's throat. Well, that's the thing I don't understand is he's saying that I couldn't believe he killed him.

And it's like you couldn't believe he was attacking him. You started attacking. Were you just trying to cut his throat as like a warning shot? That's what I mean. What do you think the end game of cutting somebody's throat is? A punch is what you do to like, hey, motherfucker, like not a throat cut. A throat cut is something you plot and like pop out from behind their driver's seat when they get in the car. That's what you do because they, you know, stole your your all of your union contracts or some shit.

If you're the mob, this is ridiculous. Gross. So, yeah, he says that he was scared he was going to be Robert Poison's next victim. It's like, if I stopped him, he could have turned on me. Okay. Even though I handed him the fucking bread knife, because I'm the guy who had it first. So, I had a bread knife, and I was scared of him, so I gave him the bread knife. As a cop, you just let this guy keep going, right?

Yeah. Oh, you just go, mm-hmm. Sure. Keep talking. Keep doing this with the expand. Pull your fingers apart more yeah yep keep going he said that he just under duress he said uh that he complied with orders when he held the lantern up to provide the light that robert poison needed to shoot those people he said i was under orders man they just they got me uh he said that also the anderson was ordered to strike the uh to strike roland ware with the lantern and also to hand him the cinder

block to crush his skull he said you hand me that cinder block well i just did and i said oh man i'm so scared of you here's a weapon to murder with fucking unreal right yeah that's what you do when you're scared you give the person you're scared of something to make them more scary right that's what i do anyway i don't even the odds with my own weapon oh my god so this is a dialogue from his second uh deal here it's only two things otherwise we would have done a small town murder peace theater trust me he says uh the police officer says okay but the three of you had talked about doing this of killing robert lita and roland as a matter of fact bobby wanted to kill elliot too right robert poison wanted to kill the husband

too remember him telling you that and henderson says when they talked about it, the when Bobby talked about it, the one one day I remember now, but it was much more in a I guess maybe trying to feel you out. A kidding mood, you know? All right. Yeah. He says the only way you'll ever get out of here is by killing them all. That's the only way you'll ever get out. So he just thought he was, you know, that's a kidding thing. You're not being held here against your will. No, you don't't have to kill anybody you can hitchhike in as easy as you

hitchhiked out or hitchhike out as easy as you hitchhiked in it's not that bad later in the interrogation he says quote the only thing wow the only thing is on the setup on the trailer is originally when this was all scheduled out it was supposed to be after roland got uh after elliot got home because elliot was supposed to have money yeah it was all premeditated he said so admits premeditation admits it's for financial gain of some kind these are all bad things to admit if you're in a murder interrogation by the way are they crazy people or did golden valley do this to them? That's what I mean.

Because you can't sit there and go, he's got money. We're all staying in a shithole together. People. Nobody here has money. He came from the outside. Somebody gave him something. I feel like they're attracted to it. Scum is attracted to certain areas.

So I don't know. It's the way it is. So Robert Poising gets interviewed as well he's brought into custody he uh you know they handcuffed him to a beam mounted on the wall he'll bring all this up later he was questioned by a couple of sergeants from the illinois state police at first advised of his miranda rights he confessed to the murders pretty quickly sure the interview began at 10 40 they picked him up at 10 yeah interview began at 10 40 lasted just over two hours three murders in less than two hours

to get over a murder an hour is a pretty good average for a homicide detective that's good yeah yeah you're gonna it's usually at least six hours of murder yeah he just got that just made his whole his whole average just shot up there. His HPMs are way up. You know what I mean? His hours per murder, they're down now. It's really good. So hours per murder there, too. So anyway, he then was left alone in the interview room for about an hour and a half.

During that period, he was given a cigarette, a cold soda, and a cheeseburger. So that's not bad he was also allowed to use the bathroom and uh they conducted a second interview later on at about 2 55 a.m that ended at 3 25 so it's only a half hour long he was advised of his miranda rights again and again made incriminating statements he was taken back to his holding cell where he slept for about six hours next day they give him another interview lasted about two hours this time he's interviewed by the mojave people flew out there to interview him advised of his rights again now he gives a detailed tape recorded

account of his involvement in the murders very detailed extremely detailed of how many times he was hitting him in the head and all this crazy shit, drank a soda during the interview, smoked a cigarette. It was comfortable. It wasn't tortured or anything like that. He wasn't Brendan Dassey. They didn't sit him there for 14 hours and tell him he was going to miss WrestleMania. They were trying to draw it out. And that's the type of guy he is.

When they approach someone some of the guys it's in the homicide book they all talk about it some of the guys you got to approach hard fuck you you're not getting anything you have to show them you're in charge some of the guys you can buy them with a goddamn peanut butter cup and a soda and that that's all they need to to crack it's so they're they see him as the cheeseburger and a cigarette and be nice to him treat him like he's important and he'll act like he's all important and tell you stuff and that's what they do and that's what he does and that's what he does and that's what he does so anyway um he says also he says that uh that uh robert de la hunt repeatedly asked why him and Anderson were trying to kill him.

He also says that after being shot in the mouth, Ware fought with him for several minutes outside that struggle took place. During the attack, Roland Ware begged Robert not to hurt him, saying, Bobby, Bobby, stop, don't. I never did anything to you. Why are you doing this to me?

Please, I never did anything to you. I thought we were friends. What's going what do you need think you know the human reaction you know yeah what the fuck and they went oh no we're gonna kill you so we can take your shitty truck because i'm sure he had a cadillac escalade which fucking you know sure a loaded sure it was beautiful sure it wasn't a 77 ford with three different fucking you know wheels tire patterns yeah so uh they uh we want to see their mug shots oh boy do i anderson rebecca robert anderson looks exactly how i imagine exactly just a horrible man a trailer park man who would fuck a 14 year old that guy right she looks like exactly what you would think and uh he is actually more handsome than

you'd think i wouldn't expect him to be decent looking guy but they he looks big though that poison he's a he's a look little he's a uh he's a chubby guy yeah he's like uh he's a yeah he's a kind of well-fed exactly he's a built stocky right he's a stocky guy it takes a lot of uh a lot of protein to get that guy through his day he's barrel tested she looks like she really enjoys some slipknot though she's yeah yeah she's a like she really enjoys some Slipknot, though. Yeah, yeah, big Slipknot fan. She's a big Korn fan. She gets down. Back then, probably.

Jonathan Davis is her hero. Well, yeah, I think most 48-year-olds do. The fuck 14-year-olds. That's probably one of their better. That's their go-to. That's better. They're going to the shock fest. Yeah.

So the coroner here, well, the coroner described this as especially heinous even for a coroner. Yeah. He said both of them were just. 200 episodes, James. I'm stunned. Yeah, this was absolutely. Because this was more unnecessary than anything else. This wasn't like a cult.

This was we want a shitty pickup truck and like $30. This is crazy. It feels more like we just want to murder three people we really want to just murder exactly that's what it is um they said it was just unreal also they find a bloody palm print which is good evidence on the shelf in the travel trailer belongs to robert poison that's not good so that ain't good for him at all very bad actually now ell Elliot Kagan feels terrible. He feels like he could have helped.

He delivered this evil. He was visiting a friend in a Kingman hospital who just had his leg amputated the same night as the slayings. So, yeah, his friend had his leg amputated. So he was there for him. And instead, he said he would have been there otherwise, except his leg had, you know, he's going there with his friend. He said years later later he still gets cold chills when he thinks about what happened he said quote you know lita and i were dishwashers and we were always meeting the type of person that was down and out and didn't have a place to stay

we always helped them out when something like this happens you wonder what the world is coming to coming to this so back to the assholes here. Rebecca Lane or Kimberly Lane. I'm sorry. Once she gets into jail, she's in there a few days and she has a lot of stomach problems and pains. A lot of pain in her stomach. No. A lot of pain. No.

Test confirm that she is pregnant. God damn it. Shit. Cock. No. It's Anderson's. Suck it. Shit. Cock. No. And it's Anderson's. Suck it, poison. Jesus.

Why is it so much worse? 19 is still too old, but Jesus, it's so much worse. It's just so much worse. It's just so much grosser. It's so gross. It's so gross. It's just too gross, man. It's just too gross, right?

It's downright disrespect. It's just disrespect. It's just too gross, man. It's just too gross, right? It's downright disrespect. It's just disrespect. It's disrespect for the world. It really is for everybody. Because it's not just having sex with a child, but you leave it in there. How could you? What are you doing? How could you?

I mean, we know how you could because you're a fucking monster. You're a pig, but you didn't even think like that. God damn it. No. I was like, no, it can't think like that. God damn it. Oh, no. I was like, no, it can't get any worse. Oh, it got so much worse. It really did. Because just a little longer.

What does she do? I mean, she has no choices there, right? She's got to keep it in jail. No. You don't get choices there. No, you have to have it in jail. So she's stuck with this. Yeah.

Oh, boy. So she ends up, before any of the trials happen. She gives birth to this child fathered by Anderson. And the baby was given to her mother and stepfather who live in Chino Valley, Arizona. So who the fuck was she living with in Lancaster in a fucking trailer park? So maybe her father. Maybe. I don't want this kid with anything that's related. That created this person.

Not that I feel I feel awful for her. She's 14 years old. She never had a chance, but I don't want that happening again. Whatever made that they're a bad chef and they got to get the fuck out of the kitchen because they make bad things. They don't put the right amount of flour and egg and the shit comes out all wrong. This kid is over 20 right now. If it made it out.

Yeah. Oh, it's it's alive. Oh, I don't know. I know it was made it out. Yeah. Oh, it's alive. I don't know. I know it was born. Survived anyway. Oh, my. So, yeah. January 1998 is Robert Anderson's trial.

Or not Robert. Frank Anderson's trial. That feels so bad. Right? My stomach hurts. These two 14-year-olds have really gotten the run of the whole thing. So, Anderson places the blame on poison says he was scared of poison he called him a quote homicidal maniac man who took control of the killing spree

and all motivated by a desire to steal a pickup truck homicidal maniac man a homicidal maniac man was his words he said that he claimed the murders and the robbery were not premeditated, even though in his interview it says he did say the exact words. It was all premeditated. He literally said that he he admitted to slicing Della Hunt's throat, but he claimed he did so, obviously, because he thought he was sexually assaulting Kimberly Lane. He's like, hey, that's my job, buddy. I do illegal things to this poor child. Not you. So he said, but after he cut his throat, he watched poison beat tele hunt to death, but didn't participate or assist at all.

Even though he said he held him down repeatedly. He also claimed he had no prior knowledge that poison was going to shoot Kagan or where. And he was just an observer of those crimes. He felt threatened by poison, and he didn just an observer of those crimes he felt you know threatened by poison and he didn't intervene because of the fear he said his lawyer said quote all of the death blows in this case every single one of them was bobby poison yeah because bobby was a lot stronger did you see he's stocky and strong you're little yeah that's what it is he's kind of a more frail man who's built more for you know child rape exactly he's built for you know pedophilia less than

full-on you're more child rape rather than murder exactly it's a you know everyone has their talents stick with what you know your role stay in your lane know your role that's the important thing in this life you know that's right jimmy you're fucking god damn everyone tell you're not smart yep so uh they they said that basically you know obviously that his statements they said that basically, you know, obviously that his statements, they said the statements were incoherent, but internally consistent is what they said. The state said their opening and closing. They said, we're not using any fancy forensics here. This guy confessed to it and was driving the goddamn truck with the stuff in it. So we don't really we're going to give you the old fashioned kind of murder case.

And everybody was like, that makes a lot of sense. They didn't present really any substantial forensic evidence at all in the Anderson trial. The jury took three hours to tell him, you are guilty, asshole, for a Frank Anderson here. Triple murder, rejecting, obviously, his defense. And he didn't show any emotion when that happened. defense and uh he didn't show any emotion when that happened and uh he is convicted of armed robbery conspiracy to commit murder and three counts of first degree murder that's incomplete what about that part where he where he fucked a kid what where he impregnated a teenager yeah i was waiting for that one myself i was like and disgusting pedophilia you're gonna add that in

there because he told the cops oh that, that's my girlfriend. Yeah. You're like, you're what? Also, she's pregnant and she's got my kid. Oh, this is so gross. We know that for sure. The jury foreman said they didn't buy it. At the end, they said, quote, we felt the defendant was a willing participant in all of the crimes.

It was not threatened or coerced into them. And they were probably really grossed out by him as well. So 1998 is Kimberlyberly right after that's kimberly lane's trial her trial is between uh anderson's trial and anderson's sentencing because she's going to testify against him in the sentencing and it's going to help her out a shitload later on sure so uh as it should she should definitely be the least least culpable she's a child number one a 48 year old man told a child to do something that he was raping after he kidnapped her that's what i after he kidnapped her and sexually

assaulted her repeatedly i feel like you know i don't know maybe uh it's not really that much of her fault and and legality wise they could call it uh traveling with a companion all they want she's 14 that's fucking kid she's a 14 year girl. That's stealing a kid. That's what I mean. That's from a trailer. Right. Which makes it somehow more scummy. So they called her in the title of this article,

the first line of this newspaper article is, quote, a pregnant teenage runaway charged with murder and a triple homicide will be tried as an adult, the judge ruled.

Oh, my. I was like, Jesus Christ, that's brutal. She's 14, will be tried as an adult on three charges of first degree murder that's harsh that's that's arizona so um yeah they charge her she's by the time they try her she's 16 but crime happened when she's 14 they find her guilty really

of everything and uh you young lady may fuck off. They give her four consecutive life terms, carrying at least 25 years for three counts of first degree murder and one count of conspiracy to commit murder. Also ordered her to serve seven years beyond that for armed robbery. Wow. Yeah. So we'll find out. That's going to get changed, though. She's going to appeal her sentence. And also she's going to get changed though she's going to appeal her sentence and also she's going to get help by testifying good because that's a life sentence they gave

her yeah they gave her 75 years yeah four consecutive care oh carrying at least 20 they gave her 100 years they gave her that's ridiculous she's got to serve before she didn't do it she did nothing violent either so i mean someone who doesn't have the capacity to do something violent, I can't give him 100 years for that. And the only thing that she did legally there. I mean, granted, she had sex with him to make out with a goddamn teenager is the only legal thing that happened here. She got 100 years for it. Yeah. I found in jail.

She had some infractions. She's got a lot of like really uh disruption lying to officials disobeying orders disrespect just a lot of shit like that you know when you get like a 15 year old sounds like the road that you go down as a teenager when you're raped yeah when and you're a 16 year old kid right 16 year old kids at home i could my son this uh his infractions are all disobeying order he disobeys seven orders a day if i wrote him up his fucking sheet would be this long disorderly conduct are you kidding me look at his fucking room disorderly conduct right there done lying to an official right oh my god he bought some thing on the playstation store my

goddamn credit card didn't fucking tell me about it lying to an official lying flying to authority disobeying a direct order well every day every day normal stuff in jail she worked in the kitchen as pepper in some sexual abuse and this is all just par for the course this is just going to be normal yeah she did some uh some uh clerk work and some kitchen work some education aid work i guess or maybe that she had education aid i think that might not be a an actual work thing they put her in the kitchen she did computer data entry okay which i guess is good at least she's not getting figuring them out beaten up by the older ladies at anderson's sentencing this is she testified he wants these visitors mitigating circumstances he says turbulent childhood like 40 years ago right

uh including sexually abuse sexual abuse by his father and lack of stability caused in part by frequent moves and attendance at more than 50 schools what that's a lot of schools i don't believe it i don't believe that that's too many that's i went to like eight or some shit i don't know and it was vicious and it's it seems like i never i'm still spinning from it so 50 i don't see he's uh called him a below average iq i believe a follower personality that's clear yeah obviously um relatively minor participation in the crimes compared to poison no uh his acting under duress and fear of poising, a comparatively lenient sentence for Lane because she's going to get, like I said, they give her a lesser sentence. His cooperation with police by confessing and participation in the murders.

Good record as an inmate since he's been in there the two years and his embrace of religion and Christian ministry to fellow inmates. That's what he's doing. The court contends that these mitigating factors are not sufficiently substantial to call for leniency there was evidence at trial that his iq was below average and they did that he did not have a leader type personality they said that he was not like mentally disabled though and not unable to make his own decisions or lacking the capacity to judge right for wrong they said that yes he has been a model inmate and made efforts to help uh fellow inmates and assist through the christian ministry it says quote while laudable these mitigating

factors are not nearly substantial enough to call for leniency in light of the aggravating crimes you sir may fuck off gas chamber for you good death penalty for mr anderson i think and they recommend that one that's that's for anderson yeah that's he's that's arizona he's getting gas chamber there november 98 is poisons trial now robert poison says that he used weed and pcp on as on an available basis he said that's one of his main excuses when i've got it yeah he said that the only substance he used that day was weed six hours before that. He reported smoking marijuana at least six hours before the Delahunt killing and 11 hours before the murders of Kane and Kagan and Ware. They're smoking dirt weed.

Right. To that 1996 dirt. They got a little bit of a headache for 20 minutes. And then they were there was not stoned from that 1996 garbage dirt weed this is the shit i used to sell yeah it's not it's not what it is the crystal beautiful smelling like a fucking garden shit no where two hits and you're just like where am i what's my name oh yeah stuff you could smoke all day long and just have a headache that's it and time goes a little man my head's killing me you turn your head and

time just goes good good good good that's it that's the one that's all it is so he also claimed to have a pcp flashback during the murder uh but the trial court was like what are you fucking kidding me that is ridiculous on pcp at the moment exactly they said uh you know it's ridiculous he was able to concoct a ruse to get bullets from the neighbor. As dumb as it was, it still worked. Had the foresight to test the rifle, hide the rifle, cut the phone line. They were like, you were good. especially cruel and that he had been convicted of multiple homicides during the same offense. And he was getting expectation of monetary gain or some sort of game, pecuniary gain. So you get your truck there. Mitigating evidence was he was of low average intelligence. You're a little dumb.

There's a lot of people that are a little dumb and they said there's there's that that was true also presented evidence that he was immature and easily led by others one of his cousins said that he believed because he lacked a consistent father figure growing up he was prone to be influenced by older men like frank anderson but he was the one doing the aggressive shit so they said that's fine and dandy his age is a mitigating circumstance however in light of his criminal history he was not your average 19 year old he had a longer criminal history they do say he suffers from certain personality disorders which contributed to the chaotic environment which he was raised other people's disorders as well.

She said there was, among other things, this was a psychiatrist, no appropriate model for moral reasoning within the family setting to which he could look for guidance. She said there's some indications that he was responsive to the structure provided in various placements and that he might be rehabilitatable. So the trial court said he suffered to prove that he came from a dysfunctional he didn't prove that he came from a dysfunctional background or that he suffered from physical or sexual abuse as a child and they uh yeah they said that he uh he had some mental

abuse by several stepfathers and his maternal grandmother and he reported one instance of sexual abuse by a neighbor but had no proof or anything like that and he just brought it up then that was the only time he brought it up and he went that's not really uh very mitigating uh but i'll tell you what is you sir may fuck off death penalty for you too wow you got it too so handed him out like fucking candy yeah he appeals based on a bunch of bullshit it's a bunch of bullshit he appeals based on literally his appeal is they didn't mirandize me and they have him recording where he says it back to them they go they start reading and he goes yeah i know blah blah blah blah and he goes you know from memory and he starts reading back the fucking miranda

rights and he goes so you know you understand all that And he goes, so you understand all that? And he goes, yeah. The judge is like, you cut the guy off and finished it for him. Right. Not only did he not get to finish, you said it. So it shows how much more you know it by you saying it rather than him reading it. Taped interview. Also, the bloody palm print. They tried to say that there was some chain of evidence thing, but it wasn't. It was really weird the way they tried to do it uh

basically they tell him that uh you keep fucking off yeah go away you're not you're not getting out so they uh unanimously uphold the conviction in 2000 for and the uh death sentence anderson meanwhile in 2000 has his death sentence overturned why based on a jury selection thing oh christ ridiculous little technicality and he needs a retrial but they quickly do that and convict him again and fuck right off to the gas chamber again with you second time two times two-time loser for unreal 2011 he appeals arguing evidence of his sexual relationship with Lane, who was 14 years old at the time, poisoned the proceedings from the outset because they were like, oh, this guy's a pedophile. I'm sure he's a murderer. Yeah.

When you do things, it wasn't like it was a past thing that had nothing to do with this. That moment you were saying I was jealous. This guy was that your excuse was he was on my girlfriend. So, yeah, they said that it you know uh he said it was extremely prejudicial they said though his own counsel elicited the evidence of his sexual relationship so to bring that whole thing up so uh yeah he appeals it here uh he gets sentenced to a re-death sentence there you go okay uh kimberly lane 2004 is released from prison okay so they let her out in 2004 less than 100 years way less than 100 years nine years eight years yeah so she was 22

when she got out so chance for a life but with her background i hope that she does something to try to help herself she gets away from the family maybe yeah because she's that yeah who knows man that's rough so 2011 robert poison's in prison where he should be yeah he says quote all my life i used excuses for what i did and uh for what i for why i did what i did and i blamed a lot of people but after you've been locked down like i am and have to face the possibilities of dying soon begin to think and evaluate your life and you soon realize it's no one's fault but your own you see it was hard for me to see and face my problems so i began getting into trouble it was the rush i got when i got away with it but that got so old so i went up the drug chain

i avoided the one thing i should have faced responsibility yes and even in prison he's in trouble for disobeying orders and fighting and doing all sorts of dumb shit in there too 2013 he appeals again and uh this is based on his history of the that the court failed to consider his history of drug abuse and uh yeah so they say nope still fucking dead go ahead Go ahead. 2013, 2018. He appeals again. This time, this appeal is based on it's a three judge panel in the ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in California said the Arizona Supreme Court improperly dismissed mitigating circumstances in the case because there was no direct link or casual nexus between those circumstances in the crime. This violated his eighth amendment protection against cruel and unusual punishment. And it came in the midst of a 15 year period during which the court consistently applied an unconstitutional casual nexus test death sentence overturn life in prison instead. And so he is serving life in prison.

Kimberly lane is walking around somewhere on the street oh my anderson is on death row or you know whatever you know he's a pre-death row or whatever the fuck it is so that's how that works that's golden valley arizona everybody pack up it's as scummy as you expected get yourself a travel trailer and head on by, huh? Good Lord. If you, uh, wow. Poison got it overturned. Yeah. And Anderson's going to die.

Which is about right. Yeah. It's about right. Yeah. I figured everything worked out about right. Yeah. You know what I mean? Oh, Kimberly.

Oh, poor Kimberly. Poor, poor, poor, poor, poor Kimberly. I hope she gets a lot of help. She's going to remember every day what she did. She needs a lot of counseling, that yeah what she did she needs a lot of counseling that girl just to get her life just to have her got a good mental state to be able to have a life not to put a lot of help uh onus on her but what do you think the outcome is if those boys tell her to do what she needs to do and she goes no that's what i mean do you think it even

happens i bet it doesn't happen i bet it happens that was just one way of lowering him to the trailer he could have been like hey i'm gonna show you something come here and he would have done it a different way i feel like him one way or that was just the easiest way to do it was get him in what what does a 14 year old boy want a 14 year old girl yeah of course uh they're science teacher but besides that so uh anybody that says let me see your dick exactly that everybody golden valley arizona if you like that show please please please let us know get on apple podcast that purple icon give us five stars it doesn't matter what you say but you got to say something so whatever give me your favorite type of sandwich bread that's what i like and not that like 12 oat grain bullshit either i want to hear

like something good it's dave's uh done right, which feels really fucking terrible to buy, but it's the best bread. Well, check. There you go. You can put that on there. If that's your bread of choice, Apple podcast, do that. Head over to shut up and give me murder dot com right now for everything crime and sports and small town murder.

And good God, should you be listening to crime and sports? Holy shit. It's been wild. Albert Haynes worth this week with his big, fat, disastrous ass. You can watch him and uh yeah check that out also listen to ps i hate this movie we did first wives club this week and it was a good movie yeah it's less good when you watch it now but yeah so many good actresses it is that's what the thing is it's so it's enjoyable so that was like a sneak and i get to like half enjoy it but also it's a piece of shit. Not good. Great. Great actresses.

Unbelievable. Fantastic. So check that out there. P.S. I hate this movie. What else here? Oh, yeah. Follow us on social media.

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Crime and sports at Gmail dot com. That said, God damn it, Jimmy. I need need to be hit with something hard. Oh, boy. Hit me with the names of the people who we cannot live without, who we love so much, and who we'd never lure into a travel trailer to beat to death. Do it now, Jimmy. This week's executive producers are Chris Wooten,

Christy Coffey, Malevolent Mayhem, By Dawn 2020, Heidi Elaine, Calvin Maddox, Jesse Rocks, Media Maven, and Under the Sea Fabrics, ladies. Hey, happy birthday. I don't have her name, Maven, and Under the Sea Fabrics Lady's birthday. Hey, happy birthday. I don't have her name, and it just said Under the Sea Fabrics. I knew it at one point in my life. I don't know it right now.

Also, Jordan Bennett. You guys, thank you so much for everything you do. We can't do it without you. You guys are the best, honestly. This week's other producers are, what did I do? JL? JL Russell? I think that's, no, Jagle?

I can't tell if it's an E or a G. You wrote it. I did this. Bushy with no last name. Angela P. Jackson. Elena Tipton. Matthew with no last name. Alicia Salter.

Nikki Trevartan. Leah Benson-Devine. Nicholas Wilson. Margaret Patchen. Jamie with no last name. Lindsay with no last name. Casey Kamechick. What? You can't do K-M-I-E. That's not a word. C-I can't do k-m-i-e that's not a word c-i-k-m-e chick that's a tough one probably not zachary turner troy watt the second uh michael casterline casterline sarah martin erica what

scoops that's an easy one that's not erica what yep what? Yep. Alicia Hall, Susan Anderson, Olivia Budney, John Rayfield, Jennifer Rauch, Cameron Hughes, Sarah Smallwood, Jess Evans, Sarah B., Joe Batchel, what? Backley, Andy Dixon, Michael Piccinetti, Tammy O'Brien, Kimberly Bick, what did I do? Billups, Denise Anthony. Ryan Leach. Jay from L.A. Morgan Casey. Rachel Mataferi. No, Mataferi.

Allison Ravey. Chris Cranky. So frustrating. I know. John Collier. Allison Ravey. I said that. Nick Gibbons.

RJ with no last name kaola sweetland uh christy albrecht albrecht uh david moore erin newton jeff goggins james harris bill williams tim and arnold uh kim colbert april wilson randy gin or gin uh chris fleming to what Chris Fleming. What did I do? Fuck. Tudmus. That's not what that is. Gallagher. I'm sorry, man. Or ma'am. Either way. Tidmus.

I don't know what I did. We're just sorry. Sarah Kennedy. P. Tuscadero. Allison Stanton. Anita M. Donald Lewis. Alexander Duran.

Tiffany Williamson. Adam Liptok. Tommy Pinamonte. Pinamonte. Flaminaut. Flaminaut Cheeto. tiffany williamson uh adam lip talk tommy pinamonte pinamonte uh flame flame flame and not flaming not cheeto that's what that says god damn it kim riley the sheriff 187 that's not right that's right jesus uh elena uh wanquo one oh kill god damn it. Ariel Mackie, Mackie, Mackie, Mackie, Destiny Star, Burgoyne, Locate. Destiny, don't know what the fuck your name is, but I'm going to try. Locate, Draws, Jennifer Lynn, Kelly Kintop, Tegan Gruel, what did they do?

Gerolowski, shit. uh tegan grew what did they do gearle gearle lowski shit uh autumn dancer christy emerson joel pace uh dariana booker uh laura maylee eva doggen luke uh baldwin christy haynes chris watson kenny mincher jackie nope that's jack schuler mary uh wellborn wellborn, yes. Jesse Lawson, Chris Baruso, Jeff Buchholz. I'm trying my best. Kayla Edgel, what? Edgel, jerk. That's not right. Heather Weaver, Alexa with no last name.

Barbara Clayton, Cliff Gibson, Sonia Hagerman, Daniel Feliciano. Whitney Weaver, what did I do? Megan Wasson, Pat Mc... What? 86? No. MC 86. I don't know what I did, James.

I don't know. Mc 86? Kerrigan Day, Sarah Lind, Michaela Lubbers. Lubbers. Yeah. Going on. Jennifer Flores, Lindy Rafique, Amanda Looney, Dan Hollingsworth, Stephanie Taylor, Olivia Covert, Don K. Thrower, Donkey Thrower. Michelle would know last name.

I tried to fancy it up. Don K. Thrower. Joshua Vieira. Juan would know last name. Melinda Keller. Kellier. Keller, I think. Katie Wynn.

Victoria Vlach. Samantha Keegan. Yeah. Luke M. Sarah Coder. Anthony Thomason, Mike Kennedy, Samantha Villa, Russell Lindsay, Elizabeth Casimiro, Nicholas Milan, Melissa McKimmy, Aaron Smith. Katie Powers. Heather with no last name. James L. The pretentious film critic. Phoenix James. Beth Oliver.

Bill Clark. Larry Hutchison. Amanda Scrimpshire Miller. Philip Brown. Alyssa in Chains. Delce Blakely. Jake Smith. Jessica Johnson.

Wyatt Woody. Casey Locke. Roy Shaddle. Maxwell Sleight, Joseph Nino, Miranda Goodman, LQ Tech, Evan Hansen, Svartk... Nope. It's never going to happen. It's a T and a K and a J all together. It doesn't make sense.

That's very sad. Kelly Mitchell, Michelle, sorry. Diego Matienzo. Matienzo. God damn it. My Peterson. Matthew Klein. Nick Kiefer.

Hannah with no last name. Aaron Alexander. Wade Williamson. Kyle Riger. Jana Luans. Samantha Stafford. Missy Bjork. Ashley Bourbon.

No, that's Durbin. Is that a B? Darla Percy. Erica Garvey. Gary. Damn it. Rebecca Falk. No, that's Durbin. Is that a B? Gary. Damn it. Rebecca Falk. Mackenzie Kurz. Stephanie West.

Cameron Hicks. Jay. No name or last name. Just a J. Hey. Puckerbrush Enthusiast Artist. Sweet. That's pretty wild. Annabelle Gohl.

C.S. Nutgrass. That's a word. John Sovin, I think. Brian and Emily Asher. Mary Fig. Devin Chiaco. Terry Kledzig. Merrilees Sage.

Don Nickel. Nicole. Kristen with no last name. Country Care. That wasn't a name. They gave no name at all. That was part of their email. I'm not going to give the rest of it.

Bruce Hoop. Erica Worth. Sam Hartrop. Hartop. Hartrop, Eric Partlow, Michael Birdsaw, Mac, Mac, is that Mac or Mark? That's Mark Doble. Hey. Dobley? No.

No. Matthew Marcelino, Nicholas Thelming, Nikki Kisleff, fuck, Kisleff, Caitlin Decor, there's no way I'm getting that right, Lissa Hebert, Rebecca Lowe, Rachel Hensley, Mike Barlow, Amanda, Amanda Bishop, Gareth Locke. I feel like you were calling, Amanda, are you there? Amanda, can you read these names for me? At the bottom of this notepad, I get real bad at writing this far because my knuckle's not even on the page.

Yeah, yeah. So Gareth Locke is lucky that I got that legible. Natalie Parson, Allie L. Kirby, it's either one. Amy Lewis, Nicole Kleffner, this is what I'm talking about. Brett Better, not sure. Dan Ristow, Jenna Gillette, probably, I hope. It gets legible as fuckible as fuck dicey down there it does james castle jessica massi massi masseri sylvia rodriguez olivia oliveris

matt howland and uh casey hoffman that this guy told me a story james i would never tell it it's fucking unbelievable but i will tell you casey that your stepfather's a piece of shit, and I hope you hang in there. Thomas Smith, Janice Hill. I think we get it. Oh, boy. No, you don't get it. It's crazier than you can ever believe. It's fucking...

Sometimes a stepfather's involved. It's going to be bad. He's a real monster, and it's not for what you suspect. Melissa DeMarc, Ricky Spoonmore. Hang in there, man. Melissa DeMarc, Ricky Spoonmore hang in there man Nikki Batchelor, Mason Peters, Amanda Seafelt, Rebecca Rose

Linda Brela I think, Mike Wise, Kelly Valance, Joshua McNamee I think happy birthday Ellie White by the way David DeCant Rachel Cascaden, April Udy Ashley Veal, Melissa Atchison.

Happy birthday to Jay. Nope, that's a Z. M-I-J. That's Zamij, right? Yeah. Maybe Zamij. I'm not sure. That is.

Rabbi Shmulelovich, I think, is the name. Hey. I don't know. He listens also. Shalom. Leah and Madison Medlock's anniversary and Alexis Studebaker's birthday. Happy birthday to one of the coolest cars happy birthday to your defunct car right it's a great car though it's mary edsel's

birthday as well i think so and uh and also hudson neil kosker it's his birthday also thank you guys so much mason peters melissa demarque amanda seafelt, Mike Wise, Kelly Valance, I said that, Molly Wulliver, Delia Betts, that's what it is, OV Films, Maggie Pappas, William Miller, Ziva Codper, Cooper Codber, Lisa Schult, Homer Nunez, Joe Bartosz Swietwicz, Tar terza and kezada i think christina daniels joe nope that's jade vera uh james martyr katarina niedzolka uh erwin lopez peyton meadows maria rasper respir uh tita titan t oh shit it's titanova i apologize there's tits in the name yeah it's never gonna get this right it's distracting to see. I apologize. There's tits in the name. Yeah, it's distracting. I'm never going to get this right.

It's distracting. It really is. To see tits either in front of you or even spelled out, we can't help it. Barras Nuave. We're not strong men. Amanda Knight, Alicia Abba, Gary Friedman, Leah Barnhart, Wayne Rose, Madeline Clark, and also Valerie, I think it's Valerie Arias. I'm not sure.

But also all of our patrons. You guys make life worth living. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, everybody. Honestly, for everything you do, we cannot do the show without you. And we're just forever indebted to you. Truly. Honestly, for helping us and being there for us

i feel like we owe you uh at least to get to your city and do shows for you we can't wait one day yeah and we will be doing uh shows soon uh virtual live shows we're gonna do that an actual real show can't wait so it's gonna be really fun but uh what if somebody wanted to get a hold of you and lure you to a travel trailer how do they do it find me at w at Wisman sucks. W H I S M A N sucks. Where, where are you, James? You can find me at Jimmy P is funny or just copy and paste my name from the,

you'll find it. You know how to find people out there. You're all intelligent people. So that said, ah, good Lord. Thank you so much, everybody for joining us.

My stomach hurts. It's been a, yeah, this was a crazy ass episode, much crazier than I thought when I started researching it. And it turned out wild. Make sure, remember, if you're cornered by snakes, 222 bullets will do the trick. Dispatches them all.

It'll dispatch all of them. They get the point. They understand what's going on, don't they? There's bullets here. Make sure to think about that. We'll see you next week. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye.

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