Small Town Murder - #198 - A Ted Bundy On The Rise in Needham, Massachusetts

Episode Date: November 19, 2020

This week, in Needham, Massachusetts, a mysterious death in the Boston suburbs turns out to be not as mysterious as originally thought, but is instead, much more twisted. A young man with excruciating similarities to Ted Bundy unleashes his darkest fantasies, but will insist on his innocence. What was found in his home was just disturbing & the main question we have is, how many more are there?? Along the way, we find out craft festivals sound boring, that there are certain signs that a person may be about to do something horrific, and maybe a person shouldn't get bail after he's carved pieces off of another human being! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasting See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Needham, Massachusetts, a mystery pops up surrounding a horrific death, but after some investigation, it's not such a mystery after all, just a very, very disturbing mess.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us once and again we cannot be more happy to be here with you. And if it's your first time joining us, welcome. You are in for a weird one as your first one. This one is, I have to tell you off the top, very, very disturbing, like we said in the opening. It's a disturbing one, so get yourself ready for that. Guard it up for a little bit of some creepy stuff going on here.

So watch out for that. But thank everybody, first of all, for this week. Everything you've done for us. Reviews mean a lot to us. If you haven't done it yet, Apple Podcasts, that purple icon. Please give us five stars. Helps and we don't know why. It feels good.

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Yeah. We just, you know, we can't help that. It's just the way it is. So that's all moved there. There'll be new dates announced and everything will be up on the site. And I understand it's annoying and it's been like multiple reschedules. Not up. You know, it's the world.

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bonus stuff we got it for you this week's episode that we did this last couple days ago on the chris watts mess and the american murder documentary what a disaster that guy is and uh yeah we got in that pretty deep as far as the whole story and the documentary goes on patreon and every week we have all sorts of crazy or every other week all sorts of crazy Patreon stuff for you and you get access to all the crime and sports Patreon so you can't beat it. Patreon.com slash crime and

sports. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Right. That's better. Okay. Anybody over the $5 level gets access to all of that and Jimmy will butcher your name at the end of the show. Wonderful. So you're going to all of that and jimmy will butcher your name at the end of the show wonderful so you're gonna get all that and if you just want to be a good person on paypal you can do that as well jimmy you'll still mispronounce your name just as just as badly

don't worry anybody at paypal use our email address crime and sports at gmail.com thank you for everything quick disclaimer comedy show this this is definitely a comedy podcast there it's a story of horrific murder obviously we that's what it is every week and uh you might say how does that work exactly but it does work somehow that's the thing is the main reason why it works is because we go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or the victims families why because we're assholes but we're not scumbags there it is that's how it works so that's kind of our whole theory of the show if you are too you can be an asshole gonna be great don't be a scumbag and there's plenty of stuff around

sensitive things that are funny that aren't sensitive they're just crazy so there's a lot to make fun of there and as we'll find out too sometimes investigations aren't what they should be right as we'll find out and today possibly and uh you know things like that there's plenty to make fun of small towns are always fun and we all come from somewhere that sucks so you'd lighten up about that and we'll all have a good time if that sounds good to everybody out there i think it's time i think it's time to clear the lungs i think it's time to clear the lungs. I think it's time to shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. All right. Let's go on a trip.

Okay. Shall we? All right. We're in Idaho, Indiana. We were in Arizona last week. Yeah. So we went, we've gone Florida, Arizona, and now we're going to go all the way back over to the Northeast now. So we're triangling this country.

We hung out in the Midwest for a little while. I figured we should really traverse south a bit too. Yeah.'re gonna traverse all around here we're going to massachusetts right need a mess need them which is spelled need ham yep they need ham yeah they're m-e-e-d-h-a-m please will never be there i need my ham it's please yeah eastern massachusetts it's 30 minutes outside of boston it's a boston suburb yeah you were north of i think it's west of actually you south maybe south of because the other one was on the north side last time so it's uh you work here you live here you have a good job in boston you take the train in and you live here in a big house that's too expensive so that's how it

works uh 30 minutes to boston to downtown boston uh 45 minutes to providence rhode island yeah so i mean you could it's that close it's everything's that close there yeah rhode island is i mean rhode island's right there that fucking suburb yeah if you're in providence you get all the boston news and that's like your local news is boston shit and all the boston sports and everything like that uh 45 minutes to salem massachusetts which is our last massachusetts episode which was episode 156 you know they closed that shit down for halloween yeah they didn't want anybody even near the town yeah they don't want to come everyone from all around bring your disease here thanks no stay home but it's

crazy because salem in in the in fall i mean mean, that's the time of year. That's their whole season. That's everything. That's their whole year. That's their whole jam. That's how they make money. They're going to be broke as fuck, those poor bastards. Not this year. We did that in January of 2020, which might as well be 1961. Yeah.

That seems like it was. So long ago. It seems like we had big mutton chop sideburns and, and like it's in sort of that sepia. That's how long ago January was. Bell bottoms and roller skates. Oh, yeah, that's what it was, big collars. Jimmy, let me tell you, I got like a big medallion and chest hair, even though I don't really have chest hair.

Just a big fluffy tuft of it. Oh, my. This is in Norfolk County, 781 area code, 33 square miles of town. So it's a big area. And the motto of it is kind of a sort of a revolutionary war take, because everything around here is sort of that revolutionary war era. Don't shoot till you see the whites of their eyes. This is close enough to Boston to see the red of their hair. So it's a good motto.

Sorry. Sorry, Boston Irish people. To feel the hate of their racism. Close enough to feel the hate. So a little bit of history. And there's a shitload of Revolutionary War history. I'm not going to get into that stuff. You can look that all up.

Well documented. More things that are specific to this town. war history i'm not going to get into that stuff that's you can look that all up well documented more things that are specific to this town and in 1865 william carter established a knitting mill in needham heights that would eventually become a huge manufacturer and leading brand of children's apparel you know all those carters shit that the babies oh that's them that's this guy wow that's william carter in 1860 old billy carter in 1865 there the the billy carter wasn't a fuck up here he apparently uh did this he made this and uh the site of the mill uh currently houses a an assisted living center okay so it's not a mill anymore and then they in 1960s the company uh moved to uh moved to Atlanta, Georgia. Oh, okay.

All right. Yeah, which is funny. They moved their whole everything down there, their headquarters and all that shit. Fascinating. In the late 1860s, a guy named William Emerson Baker moved to Needham, and he was a wealthy man. He had improved the mechanical sewing machine. Okay.

So I think Baker Sewing Machines was a sewing machine okay so you know i think baker sewing machines was a sewing machine this guy i want to say has something to do with new york too there's some connection to this guy and the dakota apartment building the one john lennon lived in really shot outside that's very famous i can't remember exactly what but there's oh no that was the singer guy okay never mind that was the singer sewing guy never mind no totally different thing delete that delete that whole thing from your memories everybody that or hang on to it like the cheese market yeah or hang on to that or look up that the singer sewing in the dakota thing there's a weird thing with his wife it's a whole long story it's fascinating absolutely fascinating and crazy um so anyway yeah this guy improved the sewing machine and he assembled a parcel of land

that was about 800 acres and named it ridge hill farm and he built two man-made lakes including lakes that are still there really made a lake that's still there and turned his property into an amusement park with exotic animals tunnels trick floors trick floors, and mirrors. Oh, boy. Whoa. What did he do to the kids there? Dude, an 1870s amusement park. Right. With trick floors?

The kids would just die. They'd just tell your parents, sorry, two of your kids were eaten by our floor, and then a giraffe stomped them. I'm sorry. And the parents would be like, oh, well, that's what happens, I guess. Lucky we had 14 other children. That's why you have 16 kids, because two of them will be eaten by trick floors and trampled by giraffes and then follow the lions around for the next couple of days.

You'll get him back. You'll get him back. Don't worry. At least their clothes or they were wearing any jewelry. That's sure to come out. Just a bunch of parents following him around with a paper bag waiting to get grandma's ring back. I just waiting for it.

Well, we did give her that necklace. So he built a big hotel in 1888 and the so that was that it was called the hotel wesley wells wellesley i'm sorry had a capacity of 300 guests and then it burned to the ground in 1891 of course like everything did back then just burned right to the ground in 1891 george walker who was the boston owner of a lithograph company and a guy named gustavos gordon who was a scientist formed the walker gordon laboratories to develop processes for the prevention of contamination of milk and to answer the call by enlightened physicians for better babies milk formulas how do you contaminate milk well they in the process of like dirty hands pulling on the teat yeah well there's a what i don't know the pasteurization process or whatever the hell they do there's a there's yeah you can contaminate

it and make it yeah you can have shit it has to be done correctly or else it'll be it'll be some sort of bacterial grow in there fascinating and then this was the time when they needed formula because not every baby like you know will take to the teeth yeah so it's like the teeth you said that almost like a doctor but stroking your beard so it was almost perverted as well the teeth like you're a doctor that knows it's wrong to feel that way, but deep down inside you still feel that way. So not every kid takes to that. So you have to. They were looking for good formulas. Some won't latch.

Some won't latch. That's the thing. So the plant for this was located in the Charles River Village section of Needham with another large facility in Jersey. another large facility in Jersey and the scientific dairy production facilities of the dairy farm are widely advertised. And, uh, and as a big modern advancement in the handling of milk products, they became like the standard of how you,

how you do milk. Got it. Anybody else was like had dirty milk after that. Like you're shitty, dirty milk, pus filled milk. Yeah. Keep your like crack milk out of here.

Once I heard that there was pus and milk that was the day that i was like i'll never put that even in a cake that's disgusting yeah that's so gross yeah it's all it's just yeah you're drinking look at a cow yeah smell a cow do you want anything that comes from its body no we'll drain the milk out of it flies around that's what i mean we'll just just take it apart eat every part of it to take the milk it's yeah we don't care but like i said before people eat goat cheese have you ever smelled a goat it is the most horrific thing in the world you would eat nothing that came from its body if you smelled one god i love them they see what i mean that's what i mean but it's

whatever so uh in the 1930s during Depression, because there was factories here that were actually going, the population in this town grew by over 50% in the 30s because there was jobs here. So people back then, I mean, we were at 30% unemployment. That was a problem. You went where jobs were, period. You didn't give a shit if you liked it there or not. Speaking of whether you liked it there or not, they have some reviews. All right. And most of them are positive yeah that's the thing out of like 800 something reviews on this site there was only a few that were negative most of them are very positive but

of course we'll talk to everybody okay we'll find out i found here's a two star okay two star quote needham is beautiful you start out with that for a two-star it's generous yeah what the fuck so the rest of it must be awful if it's beautiful to start with and it's still only two stars most of the people however are not so great okay the things i have heard them say i would never want to raise my kids around that very privileged stereotypical ignorant okay these are this is a very wealthy area by the way like uh wait till we get into the real estate you're gonna talk down on people they're pretty frequently it's yeah they're these are kids that go to private school and all that sort of yeah they're just they think they're better than you

a lot of people i would think they probably are better they're better than me for sure but maybe not you people out there we don't know what your situation is but definitely better than us we're trash so uh we're pure trash one star review here okay uh needham used to be a quiet bedroom community off the beaten path now it's overrun with snobby overprivileged arrogant entitled jerks oh whoa too many highly competitive parents who push their kids to the breaking point no wonder the high school has a drug problem. Well, that's because kids like drugs because they work. I'm not saying to do drugs, but there's a reason why kids do. You have to take your kids and be honest and go, listen, drugs will solve your temporary problems.

That's a fact. If you feel stress, drugs will take that away. But you have to then tell them about the other part and then the long term yeah it's a process really but it's they'll take them because really it's difficult to say they don't work right now and it's also easier for them to take them because they can afford them they can afford them especially rich kids and where's all if you're at school you know where the drugs are because there's tons of kids around sure you know someone who has drugs everybody oh god jesus it was the easiest to find drugs in high school. Yeah.

That's great. Yeah. There was times when I was in my early 20s where I was like, man, I wish I was in high school not to hang out just for the drugs. Right. You know, I turned 23 and stopped talking to those kids. Damn it. Yeah.

I don't know where to get it. So the kids want to check out. Go numb from the stress. The school district sweeps everything under the rug and wants you to keep your head in the sand. Overall, not a nice, friendly community. Definitely not welcoming to minorities, as you kind of would be expected. Boston, by the way, historically, I'm not saying right now, but historically has not been known as the most tolerant town. Not welcome.

It's the Mississippi of the north back in the day yeah the red sox didn't have a black player till 1962 yeah i think it was i mean that's like they were the last of the majors to have a black player there's a reason they call it racist new york that's what i mean yeah it was uh it's it's better now i think but oh my gosh it's a different thing now one of the most welcoming places i've ever been now it's just very expensive and gentrified so it's hard to have hate if everybody is the same exactly the same there so like kind of what it is now and i guess like when i'm there i've only gone to a hotel and then to find seafood yeah and we go to perform for nice people who come to see us yeah none of them are like shouting

racist fucking things at us for no reason so although if we didn't sell out the wilbur i don't know if they'd be nice to us that's true maybe the wilbur people would be angry at us for no reason so although if we didn't sell out the wilbur i don't know if they'd be nice to us that's true maybe the wilbur people would be angry at us they'd be telling me to pack up my guinea and go back to phoenix yo get your whop and go back to phoenix all right you don't want she's over here so four stars here we go four stars these people really like it here four stars needham is a very safe town with a great public school system it is very expensive but a great place to raise a family as a kid growing up in needham you feel as if you are in a bubble you're not exposed to many hardships that others in the world are going through that's that explains it right there bubble blinders and just bubble your own little your

own little world that's it uh here's one stars. It maintains a small town feel while being connected to the greater Boston area. There's not much nearby in terms of, quote, fun, but it's a safe, welcoming community. The people living here and in the surrounding towns are quite obviously wealthy. There are extremely few houses for rent or sale in the area, especially ones that are affordable. Regardless, the people are outgoing making it an easy uh making it easy to integrate into the community okay so there's a guy that makes decent money that wants a strip club yeah yeah exactly he's like i'm gonna open a nice strip

club here that will serve a buffet lunch it's some good greens i don't know what it is i feel like that's gonna draw buffet lunch gross that's yeah Gross. Yeah, I'm not. The grossest. I do not want to eat lunch in the same room that someone's butthole is out. Keep my food away from her butthole. Even if the butthole is the entertainment. Still, I don't want it. Those things don't mix for me. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. People have a food and sex thing, and I'm like, no, one and then the other. There's not. Those two things do not go together. Right. The people that put food on each other. I can't. No two things do not go together. Right. The people that, like, put food on each other. I can't.

No, I'm not doing that. No. Like, that's now you're all sticky. Right. Now I got to hold on a minute. I'd have to have a running hose nearby. The whole thing would be a very complex mechanism. Even the whipped cream.

That's fucking weird. Yeah. Like a spray bottle. Like a squeegee guy. Now that I've let this off of you you let me grab the lysol yeah this is weird this is weird and you are so sticky this is gross okay tell you what we're gonna we're gonna go ahead and throw you in the tub for a minute all right okay we'll continue this in a while you do that i clearly am hungry i'm gonna go yeah i'm gonna go you do then, see, we should have just done that separately. That was my point. Now you're all sticky.

That was the difference here. We're going to go ahead and get you in the tub. This is disgusting. So this town, it did shoot up in the 1930s in population. It's been pretty steady pretty much since about 1970. It's got kind of the same exact amount of people. Yeah, it's not a lot of people come and go. People stay here. People like it here.

It's one of those places. There are 30,429 people up here right now. It's up 10% since 1990. So in the last 30 years, it's crept up a little bit. Females, a little bit more than males. It's kind of average. Median age is a little bit older. It little bit more than males it's kind of average median age is a little bit older it's close to 44 which is it's wealthier so people that have taken a

little bit of time and built in some nuts that's what i mean you can't move here and buy a house when you're 27 probably it's more going to be when you're 45 people have kids a little bit later that sort of shit um 25 to 54 are the dominant age groups here, though, in general. Way more married people than normal, which is wealthier towns usually like that. 64% married here, so that's a lot. 63.7% married overall. Currently married, 63%. Wow. So it's like they stay married.

Motherfuckers stay married and need them. Yeah, not a lot of, even the divorce rate is low. It's like half the rest of the country's divorce rate is that a catholic thing you think uh no because the north yeah northeast catholics are like that's sort of like yeah that's like i like disneyland it's one of those things like it's christmas and easter and yeah they're not real into it we'll put it that way they're like what's the oh that's a that's a funny rule hilarious they don't they're not real kennedys are catholic one of them drove a bitch off a bridge there's not there's not a lot of

fundamentalism right not a lot of fundamentalism to the east coast catholic the northeast catholic especially it's just it's not about that it's more of a cultural thing so um yes not a lot of single people with no children none of that shit it's pretty pretty very you know yeah rich and stay together oriented stay together because you know we got a prenup and yeah it's one of those deals or because we don't or because we don't our families make us stay together right so it's a race of this town 80 almost 85 percent white uh two percent black uh 8.2 percent asian interesting which is more than the average which is one of the few times we've had that in a town and didn't expect it in Massachusetts of all places. But, okay, that's cool.

2.7% Hispanic, which is way below the average. So black and Hispanic way, way, way under the national averages there. Religion, though, it's 65% religious religious which is way over 50 but like we're going to see 55 of those people are the people overall are catholic so catholics are as we know the baptists of the north and it's a very it's very loose yeah like i said these are rich people you're not telling them no fucking priest that makes no money is going to tell them what to do right you know what i mean these are catholic people to the extent of they have a rosary tattoo somewhere. And they show up dressed up on holidays so they could say hi to their friends and neighbors

and shit like that and their families and things. But they're not going to let this fucking guy who drives a Nissan Sentra tell them what to do. Exactly. Not happening. I have a $3 million house. What are you talking about? What I'm doing is clearly the right way.

Yeah, that's what i mean otherwise very low presbyterian and a couple of lutherans here and there not much three percent jewish yeah three percent i don't know the words hey that's the highest yet i think it might be that's pretty great shit yeah not bad 0.7 percent islam uh we're not going to do politics let's keep that out of this today no it's not unemployment rate here uh is low compared to the rest of the country these are a lot of white collar people and the median household income in america is 57652. Here in this town, $141,690. Holy.

Median household income. Wow. Money. They're doing great. Yeah. It's three times the white-collar jobs as normal in their job thing. Oh, my. It's close to Boston.

These are educated yeah you know boston is kind of one of the more college heavy cities obviously mit and and harvard and it's a it's pretty smart town yeah it's a smart town when it comes to shit like that so white collar type of things and technical things and that's where they are cost of living in this town, oh boy, 100 is regular average. Here it is 202. Twice the average. Twice, but that's nothing because everything else, you know, health care, groceries, all that's normal. The expensive thing is housing. Housing is a 404 out of 100.

That's the highest ever. That's the highest. Median home cost, Jimmy. Oh, my God. Hold on to your balls here, big guy. $933, Jimmy. Oh, my God. Hold on to your balls here, big guy. $933,100. Median. Median.

Holy shit. Median. Million dollar houses. That's just your average house. Median. Fucking million dollars. 10% of the houses are under half a million dollars here. What?

10% are worth that. It is just, it's an old money my wealthy town and if you can afford it we have for you good for you the need of massachusetts real estate report your average two-bedroom rental here two-bedroom rental here, two-bedroom rental, $2,245, which is like just under Manhattan prices. I was just going to say that's Midtown prices. That's crazy. Post-COVID, that's what a place costs in Manhattan now. San Francisco apartments in Manhattan.

Oh, yeah, you can get that now. That's nuts. That's wild. Three-bedroom, one bath three bedroom one bath 1080 square feet tiny little house uh not great fucked up shingled exterior it's all broken and fucked up 459 000 for this house google's not here calm down you have got to really put some work into that thing too what where is where's facebook's headquarters what the fuck uh three bedroom two bath 1836 square foot nice clean nothing crazy just a nice clean family house very blue yeah it's a blue house

949 000 though for just your average house 1800 square feet that's's what I mean. It's insane. A million dollars. Five bedroom, six bath, tea bowl for every b-hole, 4,523 square feet. Oh, boy. Spread out a bit. Very nice place. $2.1 million. You live here if you play for the Patriots. Right.

And you're in your eighth season, and you have a wife and two little kids. And you've done well for seven seasons that's what i mean they go to like a nice like a you know one of those private preschools that cost a shitload of money and they live out there and dry your wife drives a range rover around has the two little yeah and you like do like instagram posts of you guys and you like sell like muscle building powders of some kind together that's your like husband wife business if that's not you stay the fuck out of here yeah if you're not like rob gronkowski probably go away i know he's in tampa now but still things to do here oh my the fifth annual this was last year the fifth annual winter arts festival they just started this oh boy yeah it's a local artist display and sell

their crafts free admission well no one going to pay to buy local art. So you're probably going to have to get it free. You know, I mean, not to be insulting, but you got to draw people in there. And also, if you're doing art and you want to make money at it, you got to set a price. And free ain't the price. That's the thing. You're devaluing other people's shit, you fucking jerks. What do you feel about it?

Right. Whatever you feel is right is not the price. No. Although. You got to have some pride. And what do you feel about it right whatever you feel is right is not the price no yeah although you gotta have some pride and what do we do give you a free show and say if you'd like to donate on patreon go ahead patreon.com slash crime sports what a hypocrite i am but we give bonus content they don't go here's a bonus art yeah i made you this and then here's some earrings that doesn't happen that's what we do as As soon as Best Fiends gives you some cash to draw your fucking stick figures. There you go. Then you can go with name your price.

Thank you. Until then, set a fucking price. Set a price. You're driving down everybody else's art. Yeah. Live music by local band Jam Sandwich. Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

An Indian classical dance. There. Okay. Sounds great. Explore a variety of crafts created by over 30 local artists, including ceramics, woodwork. I'm bored already. New Year's Needham. Here's one.

This is the next one. This was for New Year's Eve last year. A day and night of music, dance, and laughter. Okay. You know where the laughter comes from, Jimmy? From who? John Stetson. Who?

Mentalist and comedian. Oh, God. Here he is, Jimmy. From who? John Stetson. Who? Mentalist and comedian. Oh, God. Here he is, Jimmy. No. That guy. All right. Yeah. Real funny guy.

Some people thought there were audience plants. Come find out for yourself, it says. John steps inside people's heads. He knows what you're thinking. Don't believe it? Well, he already knew that. You asshole. You fucking asshole. John has performed for three u.s presidents the king of sweden the royal family of monaco and

has appeared on several major television networks i never would say this but i wish you would perform for like kim kim jong-un so he'd have him executed because i fucking hate hypnotist mental not if you do that but if you're a comedian yeah mental or comedian hypnotist you can go fuck yourself i hate that shit so much he's done great because he has a mouth full of veneers mouth full of fucking veneers suit and tie full of shit that's bullshit too the suit and tie and like fucking fuck you look like you're selling me a fake product you fucking jerk yeah it looks like he's trying to sell me some sort of uh like a a pillow a fluffier pillow or some sort of like better hearing aid you know what i mean like i'm not sure which baptist church music the jazz punishers oh i'm gonna punish you with jazz yeah take that isn't all of the punishment

really this band they are you should see them they're gonna punish you hard jazz yeah take that isn't all of the punishment really this band they are you should see them they're gonna punish you hard uh what is this the 11 piece band soul city okay it's got that i see some saxophones in there the tom new tile big band um yeah there's that and then seth glier uh who's a singer-songwriter. He's Grammy nominated. Okay. I don't know for what. He didn't win.

Some sort of folk shit maybe. He's like by himself with an acoustic guitar, so I'm assuming a folk category possibly. I don't know. He was like beaten by Steve Martin on a banjo. With a fake arrow through his head. He's like, God damn it. How did I do it? How did I lose again? All I do is my whole life is my life and soul.

He's like, I'm going to fuck around on a banjo. And be better than most people at it. How did I do it? Now I lose again. All I do is my whole life is my life and soul. He's like, I'm going to fuck around on a banjo. And be better than most people at it. Cocksucker. Crime rate in this town, what we're worried about here, property crime is less than half the national average. Very, very, they don't steal shit here. We don't need your shit. We got our own shit.

Exactly. Got our own shit. Don't need yours. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime about one-third the national average mad safe really safe that's an extremely extremely safe i mean it is one of these towns where if you call the cops they're there in 30 seconds you don't even need a phone you can just yell out the window and someone will show up because it's just like we're just waiting for for you. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure the taxes are high for this level of everything.

Safety. That said, let's talk about a brutal, horrible murder. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. We'll be right back. wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media

would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on max starting april 21st bye bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts murder we have to they choose to forget that they choose to forget all about and jimmy this murder

when i tell you this story you like you're the only person i'm telling when we tell you everyone out there collectively this story you're gonna say number one how have i never heard this fucking story before yeah how have i never heard of this person yeah what else has this person done has his is his dna constantly pulsing through databases like every day because they it should be what the fuck is going on in this world okay just to brace yourselves for this okay you've never heard tried to shout it to us but we couldn't hear it over all the fucking jazz in this town possibly was that we were being punished with it that's why it was a punishing amount of jazz and then they were you know but the mentalist should have been able to know what we were thinking yeah why didn't you know mr mentalist man yeah that's he says it knows what

you're thinking right don't believe him he already knew that well i don't believe you you should know who killed who now this person the closest thing i can like in this whole scenario, too, is this is another Ted Bundy. Oh, no. This person. And it's very much when you hear the story, you're going to go, is this guy Ted Bundy? Like, is he his brother or something? And what he does and the whole deal, you got to go, this isn't the first time this happened. Yeah.

Like, just as far as profiling goes goes that there's a progression of the way people do things and generally it's not as act people have fantasies and they're not they usually are when they murder people they act them out kind of progressively as they go yeah and if they get to like 10 people it'll be like full-fledged they'll have them all set up and they'll fucking jizz over here and they got a whole thing going on so you're brazen enough to break into a sorority house yes and murder several yeah that's what i mean but like your first time you might just you know kill someone very convenient and hide them somewhere deep in the woods and do some shit like that and then it gets more brazen as you go so it's an interesting thing well let's talk about some people let's start out with a young guy here

uh we'll start out in 1987 okay We'll go back in time to 1987. We're going to jump around a little bit from there, but that's going to be our base of operations here. You need them. Yeah. We're going to, like, remember Predator? Yeah. We're going to come in off the chopper. Okay.

We're going to land right here in 1987. In the rice paddies. Right in Predator. Yeah. Because that's made in 1987. Except instead of the rice paddiesies we are going to be in massachusetts yeah here let's talk about dennis jason baldotti b-e-l-d-o-d-i-b-e-l-d-o-t-t-i italian he's got a name that you would mispronounce horribly yeah at the end of our show yeah bell

did bell bell doty bell dot bell dot i god damn it god damn it shit and i'd go bell dotty thank you and i don't even see your list so in 1987 he's 32 years old okay he is born i he's born in boston on june 16th 1955 yeah so like i said 32 his parents are charles j bell dotty and tina bell dotty uh his father is uh is like a science guy oh like his father has a science degree from college and things like that his family is kind of an educated family they're smart people so it's not there's no there's no trashiness going on here as far as, you know, our last few stories. They're living in a fucking travel trailer last time with no with floors rotting out and cat shit everywhere. None of this.

This is a very Bell Dottie, the science guy. Yeah, this is a different thing there. This is everybody's very on the up and up here and very, you know, school orientated and very much into education. school-orientated and very much into education. So much so that Dennis, I'm sorry, Dennis Baldotti, he earns a Bachelor of Science from Boston University in 1977. So Boston University is a good school, too. So BU is great.

That's fantastic. Which also means his parents shelled out a few bucks for that. Right, that's expensive. So they do well as well. You can see what I mean, how this town operates. He also goes to Framingham State College as well. In 1978, he earns a degree from there as well. I don't know if it's probably a specialty, some kind of specialty. It sounds like it's probably got a special technical thing.

He's into computers. So in the late 70s, people who were into computers, that was a very specialized thing. Very niche. Very niche. So there wasn't a program in every school for that. in the late 70s people who were into computers that was a very specialized thing very niche so there was there wasn't a program in every school for that it just wasn't it's almost had one and it was the size of their library that's what i mean any kind of computer was so expensive to do that sort of thing and and they would be it was all so experimental back then and this is like when people figured out how to start like hacking and shit like that

so this is wild west of computer time so there might have been some computer program at framingham state college that was specific that he wanted to get with that he didn't they didn't have somewhere else okay so that's why he was there he's into he has interests oh boy he's into skiing fishing he likes tennis yeah uh shit like that he likes going to auto races as well. Well, that's fascinating. Yeah, it's interesting. Rich douchebag stuff. And then also.

Not like dirt track, though. Right. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Nothing like that. Not NASCAR? I don't think it's like NASCAR.

Le Mans? It's probably like European street racing he's into with expensive sports cars. Right. Yeah. Probably. More than likely. Expensive. He doesn't like Dale Earnhardt or no no richard petty i don't see that in him at all no no absolutely not he uh he gets jobs right away too he had jobs while he was in school working with like software

firms and shit because back then too there was not a lot of people that knew how to program anything just wasn't a lot of people that existed. So if you were in school, you'd also have a job on the side. They'd be recruiting anybody who knew how to program to workplaces because they were just looking for people constantly, especially people who worked on security, and they were building infrastructures. This is when companies would start to, late 70s is when they were building their computer systems. They did everything on paper before that.

And they'd say, oh, shit, we need to convert everything to computer. And they'd have to hire on a firm, a consulting firm to come in. And for a giant fee, they'd set them up some giant bullshit. And that's what this guy did as a kid. So he was an analyst with SoftTech Incorporated in Waltham, Massachusetts from 76 to 79. He was also a software engineer for SoftTech as well during that same period. So he was doing multiple things. This is while he was going to school, getting specialized degrees.

He was a systems engineer for IBM, which is, yeah, pretty good. I mean, that's where my dad worked there for a long time. Systems engineer. Yeah, the systems engineer for IBM in Sudbury in 78 and 79. So he's doing very well for himself. Also then worked for Honeywell after that in 79 and 80. After he went from IBM, they recruit. So I mean, I'm sure Honeywell recruited him away from IBM.

That's what they would do. So he always made very good money. These guys made a shitload of money and when you if you're making great money and you leave and go somewhere else it's because you're gonna make more yeah because they were they recruited you for their thing so that you've got to pay somebody to leave that's kind of what's going on here and there he's in demand and he's got a he's on the cutting edge of a new thing so i mean he it's just a lot of money for him. So he's doing so well. So well in 1982, he's in the Boston Globe, the major newspaper of Boston.

And here's the article. It is titled, Fashionable Men of Boston Hop to Playboy's Photo Call. Okay? Okay. And here he is right there. Oh, that's him. I'll show you. There's his picture. Look at him. And that's a i'll show you there's his picture look at him and

that's a fashion hell of a hell of a suit he's got the pinstripe i mean he is mr like 1980 and he's flocking to playboy suit man there he is looking very dapper yeah uh yeah well playboy apparently has a thing going on they advertised uh uh suggesting any boston male who thought himself well dressed might possibly want to call the Meridian Hotel to talk to Playboy magazine photographers about the possibility of appearing in a future issue of the new Playboy fashion guide. I think I read that same ad on Craigslist.

Yes, exactly. This would now get you, like, jerked off on by a Turkish man who's just waiting there with his underwear on. And then chopped up in a La Quinta bathroom toilet. Well, probably. I mean, whatever they pay extra for is between the two of you, honestly. But, I mean, he's at least going to jerk off on you. Fascinating.

So, yeah, this is a Playboy. The well-dressed men of certain cities is what they were doing. The response there, it says, For free $100 bills, call this number that was the so 70s that's hilarious so they did one called the men of dallas in the spring summer issue of 80 and that it's this is from the article boston globe included quote eight super hunks complete with texas spurs and stetsons and appeared in color centerfolds, as it were, but with clothes on.

Yeah. Because it's not, you know, playgirl. Right. Because it's a magazine for dudes. And when we read that, I want to see you in your schlong house. That's, yeah. You and your Boston dick. If you're going, I'd love to see what suits are good.

If you're like a, you know, some like fucking lawyer or something. Some playboy. You're sitting there, you're like, oh God, I don't want to, can you pull your zipper up so I can get a good look at that suit? Jesus Christ, pal. or something you're sitting there you're like oh god i don't want to can you pull your zipper up so i can get a good look at that suit jesus christ pal i came here for miss september and i got george from boston jesus chief calm down my my my so dennis bell bell dotty though is in this article wow as he he's the picture there's only a picture of one guy in the article and it's him he's the only guy he's the only guy pictured here that they show yeah he's the picture of one guy in the article and it's him he's the only guy he's the only guy pictured here that they show yeah he's the picture of here's here's local man dennis baldotti dapperly dressed

with his fucking like fancy pen in his hand even here and it says under here that he's a uh where is this dennis baldotti an international marketing consulting agent from needham shook hands all around and explained he was applying because, quote, a girl I know saw the ad and said I should apply because I am smooth. She read this and said, I know a guy. I know a guy. By this time, they were seeing a number of other men who had not made appointments but were wandering in to try their luck.

And Dennis, I guess he made like a final round of whatever. I don't think he made the final cut, but he got pretty close. Good for him. He made the final round. So he's got, he's the final cut but he got pretty close he made the final round so he's got he's very charming women like him he likes going he likes hanging around schools and shit like that like going to school and also you know he's not a nerd but he's does he's in a nerdy shit but he's not a nerd social shit of that time he does social shit uh he's likes to talk to the ladies yeah uh also as we start a ted bundy parallel uh he is very and this is completely non-political just

a parallel to bundy he's very much into republican politics as well like as a like you know kind of junior junior republican type of deal just like ted bundy was into that sort of thing so he's got just a similar similar vibe and when you see him in the suit you go yeah it's the same fucking thing you saw yeah it's the same deal so he's uh international marketing analyst for prime computer in uh natick massachusetts from 1980 to 1986 so that's when he's international market analyst. Not an ugly man either. Fairly handsome. Fairly handsome. Well-dressed.

Intelligent. Lots of hair. Lots of hair. Good sense of humor. Everybody says he's got a lot going for him, this guy. Women like him a lot. He's always known to have many beautiful women on his arm. You know, that sort of thing.

So well-known that when they see that Playboy's looking for a certain type, that's a positive thing. They go, I know that guy. His name's Dennis. His name is Dennis, and you're going to love him. So that's the type of cat he is. And also, he does, on the side, he does photography as well, which for some reason, and we all need photographers, and we know photographers that are nice people and great people. And we all need photographers, and we know photographers that are nice people and great people. For some reason, there is definitely a higher percentage of creeps that are into photography.

I don't know. Not that all of them are at all, because we know ones that aren't. Well, it's because they got a fucking... There's some creep factor to it of, I don't know what... The reliving of a fantasy requires a visual memory. Yeah. And usually to do that, you got to have a picture of it. Yeah, but there's something about a someone who just like i'm gonna take this and put it in a dark room right you know

what i mean like about guys who like physically develop their own pictures and shit like just there's some i don't know what it is it's a creepy thing anybody that i ever knew that worked at a photo booth back then when that was a thing fucking weirdo fucking creepy super weird and then like from like the 90s you got the robin williams movie where he was a creep crazy joe davola yeah with fucking the pictures of elaine developing all those on seinfeld the guy from fucking uh american beauty there you go there's another creep yeah lots of yeah creep creepy everybody that fucks with photos is a creep i don't know why it is sorry not everybody that fucks with photos that is a creep but every creep fucks with photos creep fucks with photos is a creep. I don't know why it is. Sorry. Not everybody that fucks with photos is a creep, but every creep fucks with photos. Every creep fucks with photos.

Yeah. It's every. Yeah. You got it right there. And it's the guys, too. You don't see creepy women doing that. Girls that do it, they have shit all over their house. You know what I mean?

Like pictures that they took. And you're like, oh, that's really nice. You're like, oh, I took that in Arizona. Well, yeah, it's like a flower, not a dismember dismembered head no it's a picture of a desert blossom a guy would be like i don't know something about when you cut a tit off it's just it's just beautiful you know like some weird crazy creepy shit like that so 1986 he starts his own computer firm so when he branches away from prime computer and he says i'm gonna start my own computer firm. It's when he branches away from Prime Computer, and he says, I'm going to start my own consulting firm. And he makes good money here, too, doing this.

He is actually named on the Who's Who list by Marquis Magazine. I don't know what that is, but some magazine that dealt with Boston. He's a Who's Who. He's one of the Who's Who as a noteworthy computer company executive in 1987. So we're talking about here. 32 years old. That's what I'm saying. Like, you're going, this is wonderful.

Wait till I tell you something else he does. You're going to like this guy, okay? President of S Select Corporation. Here, that's his computer corporation. And it's August 25th, 1986. I found the corporate registry for it. So that's exactly what it was filed for. That's when he started it.

His company is the SS? It's the S Select Corporation. No, no. And it's capital S Select. And it's not S Space Select. It's S Select. Yeah. Oh, my. It's SS Elect is what it is. It's like an ss select yeah oh my it's ss elect is what it is it's like so

nazi computers right this is terrible i don't think he meant that but it doesn't look right you know what i'm saying his website today would be ss.com it'd be ss yeah sselect.com that would be terrible awful yeah that's so bad yeah not good yeah no that's bad so sselect.com is not good. Yeah, no, that's bad. So sselect, which is the new freak of FARC, it's the new license plate, sselect. It's not sselect. No. It's sselect. So he's good friends during the last few years here

with a guy named Gary Hartatis. Or Hartatis. Hartatis. Jesus, that's hard to say. Hartatis. H-A-R-A-T-S-I-S. Why didn't he just... Hartatis. Hartatsis. Jesus, that's hard to say. Hartatsis. H-A-R-A-T-S-I-S. Why didn't he just fucking shorten it to Hart? It would have been so...

Well, it's Haratsis, so it's not even Hart. Haratsis. So it's H-A-R-A-T-S-I-S. It's awful. Haratsis. So it's a tough name. People are going to mispronounce that a lot on you. And it's hideous. And it's just not easy. It's not a roll-off-the-tongue kind of name. It's awful. Heratosis. So it's a tough name. People are going to mispronounce that a lot on you. And it's hideous.

And it's just not easy. It's not a roll-off-the-tongue kind of name. It's hard. But Gary's a great guy from what we understand. Gary's a really nice guy. Everybody likes Gary. Yeah. Nobody ever has a bad word to say about Gary from what I get here.

Now, Dennis, he starts the company, and for the first few months, he's just doing everything on his own. And then he needs an employee after a while. He needs, A, another programmer, somebody to do kind of clerical stuff, too, and keep him organized. It's getting hard. Yeah, he's the president. He needs a vice president, is the way he puts it. So he finds the perfect person in Gary's wife. Gary is married to a young woman who's 22 years old, Eugenia Conti-Huratsis.

She goes by Gina. She is really tiny, five foot tall, 100 pounds. So here she is right here. Oh, look at her. Super pretty girl, too. Very pretty. Objectively, you'd go, anybody would see her and go, oh, what a pretty girl. You know what I mean?

She's just pretty, pretty young lady there to sound like an old newscaster. Very pretty young lady trying to. So I don't want to sexualize a fucking person from 30 years ago. But it's, you know, whatever. So nice looking, nice looking lady. Anyway, she's married to Gary. She's originally from Framingham. So she should be able

to take care of herself at least anyway there's some tough bruds over there in framingham uh but she lives in sudbury with gary and uh nice nice young married couple happy they don't have any kids yet but you know they're maybe someday sort of thing so you never know uh she is dennis's assistant and the company vp all around second in command keeps the place rolling while dennis kind of tries to drum up business and does his thing and it helps it helps his business it becomes more successful more successful um starts to get a little weird after a while some people that dennis knows will say that dennis started telling them that he and gina were actually hooking up they didn't know if it was true nobody ever saw any proof of it and everybody that knew everybody

said that her and gary seemed to be very happy together like newly they were just married recently they're not like well dennis you're a dick shut up it's not like they've been married for 20 years and you're like yeah maybe it's maybe the spark is gone or something they have an agreement like they're newlyweds everybody said they're very much into each other so they thought it was odd but who it's the you know it's the 80s and who the hell knows people are people have some free fucking uh but if you're gonna do it who knows shut your goddamn mouth but now he said yeah he's bragging he said go bragging. He said they thought it was weird, too, because they're like, she and Gary seem very happy, and Dennis and Gary are best friends.

So this is just a really weird affair for him to have, if that's true. So much so that they didn't really believe it. They thought maybe that Gary was just kind of talking because he had a pretty young girl around, and he didn't want people to think he wasn't banging her. You know what I mean? Dennis did. Dennis, I'm sorry. Yeah because he had a pretty young girl around he didn't want people to think he wasn't banging her you know what i mean dennis did dennis i'm sorry yeah dennis had a pretty young girl around he didn't want people to think oh yeah you know dennis can't close the deal over there you can't what the fuck man thought you were mr playboy fucking what's wrong with you that's how kind of people started taking it it was like you know whatever why is that that with money and and power it's got to come with like, I can fuck anything I want to.

What is that? I don't know. That is fucking absurd. It's all ego. It's all your ego swells evenly. I feel like any part of it that's inflated, it brings other. You know, it's like the rising tide floats all boats. The rising ego floats all fucking weirdness rising ego floats all fucking weirdness it floats

all of your disgusting i just don't i don't i maybe maybe have it's you're right it's it's ego because i as a rising ego floats all cocks as a guy that hates himself like i don't i if i was if i was rich i don't want that to come with any woman well fuck i don't want that no not at all and i don't want and i don't want people to like, why are you so rich and powerful if you can't fuck everything? Because our ego sucks. So we would assume that someone only liked us for our money. Yeah. Whereas rich guys with big egos assume that the money doesn't matter.

Yeah. Seriously. Yeah. You'll find these guys. You ever watch that Below Deck show where they're on the yachts? No. It's so fascinating to watch people on a fucking yacht because they're they're just so they think like the people there they're almost like if you're on the out in the ocean you don't exist anymore and the people that are serving you are like robot people whose memories will be

wiped at the end of the trip so you can act like fucking animals yeah when we get off this boat will smith's gonna flashy thing it's all yeah that's what, and it's constantly, you see like 53 year old guys with like a big gut and a hairy back and they're bald and their personalities are fucking repulsive. International water loss. Yeah. No, but they're not funny. They're not like charming.

They're not really nice, but they're real fucking rich. That's what it is. And they have like 23 year old women with them who don't talk to them at all. And the guys literally don't think it's because of the money they think that they're like handsome or they're charming or that's what it is i could live in a trailer and pull this broad down yeah it's not that we're on 150 foot 40 million

dollar yacht yeah it's my dick it's me and this fat belly that this dick hides under that would be like the 22 year old woman thinking i'm sure I'm only here because of my personality. I'm really funny. And that's why I'm here. Like, everyone should know why you're here. You're here because you're hot. You're here because you're gross and rich. Those are the two fucking reasons why we're all gathered.

You're here because the hot guy she's into can't even afford his Civic. That's the thing. That's why she's here. But when you get back on land, she will bang him again. Oh, for sure. Because she really likes him. It's true though it's it's a everybody should know what they're what they just have some self be honest with yourself awareness be honest with the mirror and go that's what you are yes exactly go say this she's married she's happy yeah not me so alone she he goes on to tell people

that uh you that she and her husband g Gary were having marital problems at that point and telling people that they had been together and shit like that and that they've been having an ongoing sexual affair while she's at work with him and all this type of shit. He runs his business, by the way, out of his parents home that he lives in. It's a big home. Yeah, I'll show you the picture of it. And he takes like he has the whole upstairs it's like a whatever wing he's got a wing and he runs the business out of there okay so uh in october of 1987 uh he dennis this that is participates with the u.S. government, with a U.S. postal inspector named John G. Dunn in taking down a Copenhagen-based child pornography ring. Oh.

So he participates in this sting operation to get this guy arrested with the postmaster here. Awesome. It's kind of cool. Or a postal inspector, one of the top postal inspectors. So it's kind of cool. Or a postal inspector, one of the top postal inspectors. He has federal authorities enlist him to fly to Copenhagen as part of this big sting operation. There's this giant, I guess, producer of Danish producer of kiddie porn.

Yuck. Fucking grossest people in the world, obviously. Not Danish. He's Danish. This guy. I'm saying not the Danish being grossest people. Yeah. It's the child fucking danish like we have any opinion on the danes i just wanted to make yeah yeah like that wasn't

like if someone said that we go we don't even know what that is we don't even know what country that's from what are you talking about we have no opinion on them whatsoever quick jimmy what country danish people come from exactly great bla't know. Exactly. Great glazed pastries. That's exactly right. Daneland? No. That's what I'm saying. No.

We have no opinion on the Danes. Copenhagen. There you go. I just said that. Oh, yeah. I said that. You got it. Yeah.

That's fucking amazing. That's how I pulled it out. that's fucking amazing i pulled it out that's perfect so unbelievable this is october 87 so the business has been open for about a year so they send baldotti over to denmark to purchase child pornography tapes from jorgen jensen or jorgen jensen we'll call him i'm sure it's jorgen jensen so jorgen jensen we'll call him i'm sure it's jorgen jensen so jorgen jensen is his name which sounds like a made-up danish guy doesn't it i don't know jorgen borgen jorgen borgen jensen i don't fucking know what his name is him and the swedish chef and everybody else i don't know incredible so uh they it basically flies him there to have him make these purchases and also kind of get in with this guy because he's a smooth talker and tell him that he's got more customers back in the States that would really love to hook up with him, get a bunch of these tapes and to be able to broker that deal. So then that deal will be made by a federal agent who will then go there, make the deal themselves and have the in and bust this guy.

That's that's the fucking plan here for him. Absolutely gross. But yeah, people like this need to be hero work. Yeah, this is this is crazy shit need to be taken down. So he does that. The second purchaser will be done. The postal inspector himself, who ultimately does all this shit. Jensen ends up being arrested in the months before all this undercover sting operation the uh it leads it will

lead to uh basically busting jensen for smuggling 280 hours of child pornography tapes into the country that's what ends it ends up being to the uh to uh beldaddy and then there's more here for the postal inspector in the sting jensen sold dunn the postal inspector some tapes for 15 000 in 1987 right it's a lot of money that's what i mean 80 hours this is well we'll find out here believing that this guy was he thought jensen thought that dunn was a u.s distributor got it he thought he was like blockbuster kitty porn u.s version literally he thought he was like oh you're gonna put it out on the streets good for you you know what's your distribution plan right you got posters get out fucking disgusting

paramount pictures this is the grossest shit in the world these people are hideous uh so they made further arrangements after this original sale too for done to procure about 300 magazines and 280 hours more of videotape so we're talking mondo amounts of this shit any amount is a shit load of this is disgusting this is oh yeah god magazines with titles and shit like not like a fucking you know some like pulpy with chunks of wood in it like underground stapled together by hand this is a printing press this is somebody put a glossy out man christ um it's gross it's fucking disgusting i didn't know they had that no oh it's gross man so jensen agreed after the first sale

he's very comfortable now because he's made a sale to baldotti and then he made a sale to dunn and so he's comfortable with the whole arrangement jensen agrees to fly to boston to seal the last deal with dunn yeah where at that point obviously federal agents are going to get him there yeah i would say so i would hope so and they fucking do here uh they get that's u.s attorney uh susan via said it was quote the largest case in terms of quantity of videos in the history of u.s child pornography cases at the time really this is the biggest bust in the history 300 hours that's the most they got so far in one place yeah get back to work via well because back then think about it to make a video was a big thing and it was organ to organize a professional thing

not just some underground eight millimeter tape being passed around between people like actual produced magazines and videos that they were selling like that's a that's disgusting so you you want to fucking nip that right in the bud uh they said all but six hours of the videotapes were reprints from eight millimeter movies made in the 70s so it was a gross shit like that the newly made pornography depicted girls from ages four to ten possibly related with each other and engaged in sexual acts. Fucking disgusting. But Beldotti helped them bust this big ring. So you can say it, Jimmy.

He's my kind of hero. There you go. Jimmy, you're kind of guy? He's great. Okay. How did he get involved in this, you might wonder? I was wondering that before. How the fuck do you even meet that guy?

Well, Jimmy, he's not your kind of guy. We'll put it that way. Oh, my. Oh, fuck. Yeah. even well jimmy he's not your kind of guy no put it that way um yeah federal investigators discovered postcards baldotti had received from jorgen who at the time before they knew they believed to be a major exporter of child pornography uh baldotti's cooperation was solicited after charges of illegal receipt of pornography against him were dropped in return he had um he's ratting on the dealer oh my god he

had magazines jimmy oh my god there's this they have names i'm not i can't i'm not reading them please don't fucking disgusting name are they puns and shit like that or no no it's just disgusting we fuck kids 32 page magazine he had and he had other things too yeah like a produced 32 pages i'm so uncomfortable that's horrible 32 of the worst shit ever yeah the worst shit ever and i one time i assume they're saying lolita color special 12 it's enough that's disgusting that's why i'm saying the 12 is our age yeah that's what i mean this is horrific. And everybody out there is wincing right now. I am swinging in my chair. I'm not comfortable.

I'm with you guys. I'm fucking horrified by this shit. And I know, Jimmy, obviously from your past experiences, this is not something that you want to. Yeah. So anyway, so they believed that, you know, this guy knew who he was getting the porn from, so that's why they did it. They busted him at his home there, and they said that he didn't have an alarming amount of porn, like kiddie porn, but he had enough to bust and hold him and try to... Yeah, 32 pages. That's what I mean.

That's 32 more than I got. It was enough to be able to use him for their sure and also too i don't care if it's anything that shit grows and it's a start and no no no no we're not having that shit so um everybody is shocked when this happens he he denies the whole thing to his friends and family he'll deny the whole thing and be like look they dropped the charges it was a mistake i helped them i'm a hero this is crazy and they believe it because they believe it because he's known as like this handsome playboy guy they're like yeah what he he likes adult women he's always got a bunch of adult women he's got a nice suit on and he's you know right women like him and this makes no sense like this is this is some some crazy FBI government bullshit setup is what this is.

That's what everybody was saying, literally. That is just blindness. Yeah. That's shocking. It's just knowing. If you told me, I heard that you got a 32-page magazine at home and were arrested for it, and then I say, no, no, James, I didn't have it. They dropped the charges.

Obviously, I didn't have it. I helped him get the big guy. He had all kinds of shit shit you'd be like how the fuck how did you know where to get exactly that's what they should have said they said that he said that they just you know they made him make the contact as he's a good talker he's this international marketing guy yeah he knows how to market to everybody from your highest level corporate executives at ibm or honeywell all the way to kiddie porn manufacturers in in daneland either one and wherever they make the best chewing tobacco in the world that's all it is too so they said his neighbors said they always remembered him as kind of an enigmatic guy because he was like into computers and that sort of thing

but he was also like an outgoing playboy type. So they didn't understand. Yeah. Those two sides of him were very much at odds at the time. And they said that, you know, he didn't really bother anybody. They said he seemed like a he's like a spoiled kid. His parents sent him to nice schools and bought him, you know, it's good car for his 16th birthday. Shit like that.

Spoiled suburbs. Rich kid. They said he spent hours taking care of his Jeep Laredo. He had his Jeep that he would polish and fix shit on and put new tires and wheels on. He's one of those guys. And they said that he was kind of a loner but socially outgoing. But he was just into computers and stuff and nobody else was really into that. So you're kind of alone based on that.

But they said he always wanted to be like a big shot he always wanted to start a company and he always wanted to like you know be successful and he at a young age he had suits on and he was doing that sort of thing and alex p keaton type that family ties yeah you know case to school ted bundy type yeah that sort of thing so they said that uh everybody that went to school with him said that the most one person said the most outstanding recollection of him is that they have no recollection of all really. They said he's just kind of quiet. Yeah. Didn't really have a woman named Donna Reum, who is a neighbor and a high school classmate, said, I don't really have any memory of him. He was always kind of a loner.

In 20-odd years, I spoke to him maybe three times. So that's like... Oh, yeah, that fucking guy. That guy, I know him. I mean, I don't know. He was there. Yeah, I think he... I saw him get coffee once.

I don't know. I don't really even remember that until you mentioned it. Yeah, he'd think he drives a brown car, right? I don't know. Laredo, right? It's like a Jeep. But there's no doors. Those things, you know what I mean?

In the winter, it has doors. In the summer, it has no doors and bigger tires and stuff. You know what I'm talking about. You could fall out of it. Daisy Duke drives one. It's 1980. I'm trying to relate. The Laredo's like a Cherokee, though.

I know, I know. I just wanted to... If he took the doors off, that fucker would look like an asshole. That's true an asshole that's true yeah he was like a real asshole it looked like they fell off at that point that looked like he took them off you wouldn't do that shit voluntarily so august 2nd 1988 comes around and you know like we said through this years gone by now since the whole kiddie porn yeah issue and it's died down, and everybody kind of, nothing else has happened, so they more or less believe him, and everybody thinks, I guess, the guy's a hero. You know what I mean? I guess he's a normal, decent guy.

He's never shown any other weirdness or never gets in trouble or had any other aberration. He's just a successful computer guy that women like. So, okay, fine. August 2nd comes around. Like I said, 1988. It's a very hot day hot humid summer northeast day one of those extra stuffy days in the northeast and gina comes to work early that day uh to do some book work and some bookkeeping work some computer shit some general shit that she has to get done that morning this is the house by the way right here jay and i'll post a picture of it on social media that's a beautiful place to live and grow wow big beautiful yard yeah you know the path leads up to a nice big house enormous mature trees yeah

beautiful home back the whole house is white yeah it's gorgeous it's a big like you can tell it's like a big uh i looked it up too i have the stats of it oh boy it's a big like you can tell it's like a big I looked it up, too. I have the stats of it. It's a big like twenty six hundred square foot and like multiple levels. And it's a cool house. It's a cool it's a cool house. So there's that. Now, it's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast. Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager. Religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro,

who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment.

While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened.

And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. That's where she's working on the top floor. I believe it's over here, the right side of the picture in that wing up on the top floor.

At 2.13 p.m., there's a 911 call. It is from Dennis. He calls 911. It's the Needham Police Department. And he calls to report that a woman's body is on his bathroom floor in his home. And he thinks she might have been murdered.

Oh, boy. So he's like, you got to come to my house right now. I came home. You know, this is 2.13 p.m. He said, I just got back from running errands. I left at 11 o'clock in the morning, came back just now, and she's on my floor in the bathroom.

So fuck over to the house, please. Get here now, as anybody would, with a body in your house that wasn't there when you left. And is it a random woman, or did he say who it is? He didn't say who it was at the time. He just said there's a woman,

and she looks to be murdered. So it was him that called the police. He says, as a matter of fact, quote, she's on the bathroom floor. There's a lot of blood. I think she's been murdered. So that's, you know. Yeah. He's an investigator.

Yeah. yeah and that's but that's these are actually um like uh when they when they analyze people's 911 calls this is a you know this they said he sounded very in a very excited state appeared to be crying yeah and kind of you know hyperventilating having a thing flustered she's on the bathroom floors a lot of blood i think she's been murdered that kind of thing so it's very much kind of in line with how it goes. In line with your state of mind at the time. It's not like, yes, hello. There was a female.

Hi. How are you? Yeah. Good, good. I found a female human. Don't believe she's breathing a lot of blood. I would assume murdered on my bathroom floor. If you could come by and take a look.

Thanks. Thanks. Appreciate it it see you around if you could pick up a large pepperoni half sausage on the way over as well i'm a little peckish thank you also i am a hero i stopped a child porn right did i mention i took down a danish porn distributor he was pretty gross so yeah the the uh sergeant on the other end said quote mr baldotti was in a very excited state and was crying uncontrollably the police arrived in under two minutes wow that's how fucking safe this town is if you call the cops and say dead body in like 90 seconds a car a car will pull up you know how fast that is that is awesome that's

amazing fast like drive down the street yeah count to 90 yeah that's how close the cops were yeah that's what i mean that's amazing you could just run outside and go cops dead body and they would fucking come running they'd know to come it takes 90 seconds for me to get to the busy street by your house james that's it right there oh my god i would like to take and i'm not going to judge anybody else's city because i'll take the city we live in phoenix if you live in a shitty neighborhood in south phoenix how how long if you said there's a dead body how long would it take the cops to be there what an hour and a half probably they'd be like how dead how what are you talking like it's been dead for a while yeah

sort of dead what do we mean here what's your address how dead is it as soon as i finish this chicken i'm in the middle of that way it's pretty i don't know sounds like they've been dead a while they'll be still be dead when i get there you say they're already dead yeah i got time here yeah 90 seconds on the spot unreal uh he met the police at the door said said, upstairs, upstairs, bathroom, look on the floor. Holy shit. Um, he said,

they obviously, they said, well, you know, where were you since you're the only person here? His parents are out of town. They're in New Hampshire. Okay.

So he's the only person in the house, him and a dead woman. So not terrific here. Um, once they get there, they realized the dead woman is Gina, uh, Gina Hartatsis. Uh, so her rats, her rats, her rats, here um once they get there they realize the dead woman is gina uh gina hartatzis uh so

harats harats haratsis that's hard to say it's a tough one it's a hard one so uh yeah eugenia there so anyway yeah that's who they figure out it is he says that he left the house at 11 30 a.m he said he went to three stores around because he was between another town and he was going to a couple different stores. They said, did you run into anybody? You know, he said, nobody I talked to. I just bought something left three different stores. You know, said I went to an office in Wellesley Office Park, which is about five minutes away from his home. He said he talked with a woman there and he talked with another woman there that he said hi to he didn't really talk to her he just said hi but then he

actually had a conversation with another woman he said he visited then a convenience store um he said he got a snapple and some popcorn okay bag of popcorn and some snapple gross um yeah i don't want popcorn and snap i like snapple i mean peach snapple's good salty sweet's a nice treat it is it is i don't know about but just popcorn i feel like the snapple would disintegrate the popcorn immediately worse than soda i mean it's no good depends on the if you're getting that strawberry lemonade that's not a good that's not a good comment no it's a bad you're gonna have tea what do you get what's tell me the tell me the goddamn i'm getting i'm getting peach that's my something yeah but yeah i don't know but But this is, I think, 87.

We don't have a full range of Snapple flavors here. This is probably like iced tea and lemon. Yeah. That's probably your options at this point. I'll bet you don't even have that annoying lady hawking it on TV yet. No, the Snapple lady. I don't even think she's there yet. No, this is like underground.

Snapple was just kind of in the Northeast back then. So, yeah, he said he talked to some people went to the convenience store he said he got home around 2 p.m and soon as he saw the the body he called police that was 2 13 the call came into 9-1-1 um so i mean that all sounds pretty reasonable that sounds normal yeah um okay everybody let's talk about the condition of uh of this poor young woman here okay um buckle up this is this is rough i'm going to read directly from court documents so whenever i'm reading directly from court documents you know it's going to be bad yeah and i'm not gonna they don't parse words and i'm not putting any spin on it this is right out of the thing so make it medical and really uh as clinical

as we can here uh quote the victim was found strangled and mutilated in the upstairs bathroom of the Baldotti's home. Her nipples had been excised, and along the hairline of her pubic area, there were multiple incisions making part of the small bowel visible. Uh, yeah.

Also, a deep incision in her left wrist and small cuts and bruises around her throat, because asphyxia is the cause of death. So all that shit was postmortem? All that shit's postmortem. Wow. Also, she had, I'm going to read right from the thing. I'm not even going to make it my own.

Quote, the victim had been violated vaginally and anally with a dildo. Okay. That's in court documents. They said dildo in the courts in court documents they said that those bastards her body was found encased in trash bags one bag enclosed her legs up to her waist and another bag was over her head down to her waist so like a christmas tree basically like it yeah um they meet in the middle they meet in the middle exactly and then yeah the middle. Where you throw the duct tape. Exactly. And then, yeah. Wow. So that's what they found in the bathroom. And he said, I think she's been murdered.

Well, on the phone. You think, Dennis? You think she got in that bag? You don't think she fucking cut her own nipples off and jumped in fucking two trash bags? That's probably what happened. You could see through the bag that it was a woman? You know what I mean? I guess.

There was something obvious. There you go. And height, too. And, you know, I don't know. A hand sticking out with a nail. go yeah and height too and you know i don't know a hand sticking out with a nails who knows hair i don't know who knows he did it so he's full of shit i don't know here we'll find out we'll find out so there is no sign of forced entry into the house into the home by the way doors were locked as far as like windows and shit like that back doors things like that were locked um her clothes and jewelry were found in a garbage bag in the hallway like right outside of the room of there so not like in the woods or not in the garage or anything like that just

right outside the room they're like almost like if you went to prison and they put all your shit in a bag cinched it up and set it by the door yeah uh they also said that her clothes her atsis's clothes and jewelry were there the bathroom where she was found was across the hall from where the the main area of the business where she would have been yeah the bathroom's right there um the police officer said she was working in that particular house she was a computer programmer and then we found her here so police search the house they get a search warrant and they obtain to search everything in the search detailed shit and they seize a lot of shit really um yeah because they're they're they're suspecting dennis right away because of the lack of forced entry and the lack of stealing jewelry.

And she's a 22-year-old computer programmer, not known to have the most enemies. It's not like she's a fucking Hell's Angel and she crossed the Satan slaves and now they're going to fucking rumble. Like, it's not... You know what I mean? This is pretty...

Nobody really is after her, so they're a little suspicious. I'm going to read a list. This is from the court document of what they see, things they took in the court. This is just the court. There's more and more detailed version, but this is the paragraph from the court document. Clear my throat for this because it's quite the paragraph here. And I quote, photographs, negatives, and slides, which are mostly sexually explicit,

eight adult magazines and 24 magazines depicting naked, pubescent, and prepubescent girls and boys. What? Three hardcover collections of adult photographs. Female undergarments. One envelope bearing the return address of the victim. One popcorn bag that tested positive for occult blood. That is a blood that can't be seen. It can only be found with chemical agents.

It was on the back. They call that, it's not like some, it was not blood from can't be seen. It can only be found with chemical agents. It was on the back. It's not like some... It was not blood from a sacrifice or something. It's not chicken's blood? No. Test positive for occult blood. One broken GLAAD heavyweight trash bag box. Approximately 100 videotapes that are sexually explicit or involve bondage or violence toward women.

Four dildos. Bondage paraphernalia. One plastic encased photo of the victim, the contents of the victim's pocketbook, numerous sexually explicit eight millimeter films and numerous sexually explicit magazines. Why does he have so much porn? They found whips, ropes, ankle restraints, leather straps, gags, eye covers, full bondage paraphernalia, regalia, which I understand there's this is a this is a sensitive

thing because there are a lot of people out there who are into this shit who fuck with nobody right they hurt nobody whatever their thing is that that makes them sexually turns whatever that's that's the button that you need to push for him and that's fine for keeping that separate from everything else i don't give a fuck what you do if you're you and another adult can fucking hang each other by the ankles beat the shit out of each other fucking come in each other's eyes i don't give a fuck what you do to each other i really don't right just attack each other's buttholes like there's no tomorrow i don't care it doesn't bother me not my problem enjoy hey i'm happy if you're happy good for you but what the fuck are you doing dude this is another a lot this is another thing well when you combine this with having some obviously obvious kind of a sexual

you know somebody's nipples cut off in your fucking house and then you have all sorts of shit like this that's when it's creepy very very you know sadomasochistic mixed with uh domination because you've got child shit in there too which but the what the fuck hero man by the way why you relapse by the way five foot tall hundred pound 22 year old woman who very passes for a 12 year old if you have a sick fucking mind yeah and can fucking go yeah i could fucking make that work for me oh boy think about that jimmy this is this is this is fucking disturbing yeah this is what i mean and think about what he has and what that was do you think that's the first time he did that couldn't possibly be you think he acted out his fantasy because there's more to this too we'll get into that's not all he did be you think he acted out his fantasy because there's more to this too we'll

get into that's not all he did do you think he got that far into an actual like like you know realized fantasy with his first person no you don't do that in your own house no think about cutting the things he was cutting that's specific yeah he's specifically doing things that's not his first that can't be his first time how do you it can't be i'm sorry as your first time how would you cut like above you can't be why would you deep cut so deep you get that's a lot man he was he gets bowels out yeah and the wrist cut the things like that like he has certain things he was into they found all sorts of little weird cuts on that were clearly clearly done on purpose. Yeah. That just didn't know why. Just because that's what he was into.

And obviously he needed her dead to do it. You know what I mean? Because he killed her first. Yeah. We'll talk about what he needed, what he needed her to be dead first before he did. Oh boy. Yeah. It's absolutely disgusting.

So, um, yeah, they found all that shit. The leather straps, several dildos, 58. Just go over it. Like it's very common. On a partridge in a pear tree. Yeah, but they don't say dildo today in paperwork. They say sex object or sex tool. Yeah, back then, this is-

Dildo is a technical term. This is literally from court documents and from the Boston Globe. Yeah. Dildo, 1989, or 1988. Incredible. Dildo, 58 items of women's lingerie okay that's weird yeah i'm sorry that's that's one of those like uh jerry bruto's collecting shoes thing like there's something to that that's btk dressing in it yeah exactly no there's something to that but the

collection of it the 58 items where do those items come from right do you go buy those you think or are those people's things like those memories like shoes you would take or or fucking collections yeah or does he just does he wear it does he put it on is he into that does he buy it in case he gets a fucking girlfriend he can try to dress her up into whatever fantasy that yeah who the fuck knows that's what i mean he needs to hold on to it for the texture while he talks that's what i mean does he put it around his cock yeah he liked the shoe that's what i mean does He needs to hold on to it for the texture while he talks. That's what I mean. Does he put it around his cock? Yeah. He liked the shoe. That's what I mean. Does he?

Is it some sort of, uh, yeah, tactile thing or what the fuck? Who knows? So he had, uh, thousands of pictures, obviously magazines, uh, videos that were like bondage videos, uh, tamed and tortured for the title of one shit like that. Um, yeah. And things like like you know gross things gross names and shit so uh tons of things also what they found in his possession were 29 nude photographs of heratis oh of her that which her husband when they asked him about, identified as pictures that they had taken together.

Where was he stealing them from? He and her, and Dennis stole them from their home. They didn't know they were gone. Holy shit. They had them locked up in some thing somewhere. Dennis had somehow gotten in there, found the fucking pictures, and stolen them and had them for God knows how long. So that's how dangerous this person is.

He found in a hidden place yeah the naked pictures the most personal things yeah so who knows what he's been doing i mean this is this is scary this is like like i said this guy is uh very bundy-esque to me like uh i want to know where the rest of them are yeah is what i'm taught and the fact that once he got in there it's almost like they tried to he's they just he's not talked about like it's almost like let's pretend that guy didn't exist because we blew that one for a while like that's what it almost feels like i'm not saying that's what it is but that's what it feels like to me um he uh yeah so he said that they had you know he didn't when he heard about the pictures he looked for his

pictures and realized they were gone and those are the pictures the husband there so gary the uh evidence uh supporting why they're why they're obviously looking at dennis would be his cash of shit like that the lack of forced entry to his house right away just as in terms of evidence of the murder and then on top of that him stealing these naked pictures they talk to neighbors and then they say that he said he was banging her where it just doesn't add up that way other people have said that gina said that he's made passes at her before and she's turned him down okay so it's it's a lot of conflicting stories are going on and they don't really know what to do so for the whole day they kind of hold on to him and talk to him but he's not under arrest or they don't really know what to do with him at the

moment they're not sure what to do with him oh and on top of that he's also a federal witness right so that means something too they have to deal with that as well and i really think that helps him a lot as we'll talk about here uh he it's okay so yeah we heard that that she had resisted his interest in her in the past you know dennis's interest in her and um yeah the pictures that's the most disturbing part once they get dennis down to the station too he they ask if they could do some tests for blood on him and he volunteers for it and they find occult blood which is blood you can't see uh they had found on his hands arms clothes car under his fingernails everywhere and he had a three to four inch very fresh scratch on his chest so basically he makes oj look like the most innocent man in the

world yeah like they found his blood in more places and he's got a scratch it's like you can't fucking make this up like it's like wow he's what this is what a murderer looks like with fucking lucite shit on him and you know this is what he looks like look at that so yeah there you go uh they said that they did uh blood on both his arms to hands car they also had a fingerprint and the fingerprint expert found that his bare footprints were found on trash bags near the body as well oh he was barefoot yeah yeah i'm sure he was naked i'm not gonna ruin a suit probably naked oh he was naked that i'm sure of um yeah uh long fresh scratch on his chest um they said that he said that when he got home, he said, I don't know what you're talking about. I got home.

I washed my hands before I went upstairs, and I haven't washed them since. So when I found her, I was moving stuff around. Maybe the blood must have just rubbed off my hands so you couldn't see it. But it was there. He said that also he cut his finger opening a box the day before. And he showed the guy a slight cut on his finger. He said, see,'d cut his finger opening a box the day before. And he showed the guy a slight cut on his finger. He said, see, I cut my finger. From yesterday.

From yesterday. OJ, I broke my, I remember I cut a glass. I broke a glass and I cut my hand yesterday. Same day my wife got stabbed to shitload. Isn't that weird? We both got cut yesterday. Super strange. You know what?

It's because we're that close. I felt it for her. I'm surprised OJ didn't put that. See, I had to that see i say try to pull out a real stigmata moment i love her so much like if she feels pain i feel pain so you know jesus christ so the police said that he they figured he had the opportunity to commit the murder there's no corroboration of his traveling to natick from uh natick from needham and back and forth and there's no corroboration of his traveling to natick from uh natick from needham and back and forth and there's no corroboration of him doing anything he says he went out but the only thing they know is that he bought a snapple and a bag of popcorn and what they think is that he did all this shit killed her did everything cleaned himself up got dressed then went and

bought a snapple and a bag of popcorn came home oh no called 9-1-1 what that's that's the theory here of what he did that's psychotic yeah you think because the snapple was still cold and it was a hot day yeah you think it's psychotic that is psychotic that's fucking it's like i gotta go get a treat first first first time no way first time you do all that stuff you can still eat oh there's more j? Oh, there's more, Jimmy, too. There's more. So it's three imprints from a bare toe of him were found near her body. Fingerprint experts said the prints were on unopened plastic trash bags, if you will,

Plastic plash bags, if you will, that were recovered from the floor of the upstairs hallway near the entrance of the bathroom where the body was discovered. The bag was six to eight feet from the body, he said, and underneath a similar one, which her clothes were found. So there's no way you just like touched it. No, he would have to fucking put it there. You'd have to put it. it was underneath something so it's not even like there's no way unless somebody stacked no one could have came after him and done it because he was there so that's what i mean i mean he's made so many mistakes though james that's the other thing like a first time to do this i don't know if he had his overwhelming fucking fantasy to do it and he did this whole thing and he was like um i'll just say

i wasn't here yeah but in your own house you can't with all that other stuff too and also wait do you hear other stuff that's in there it's just how do you do that in your house knowing that you got that many dildos all i can think knowing how many dildos you have you know what your dildo collection is you can't do crazy shit in your house you know your cache of dildos you know what you have your house has to be squeaky clean otherwise if you're going to keep that kind of dildo collection on hand with that kind of weird shit you can't have anything untoward happen because it's gonna they're gonna go and you have that many dildos the dildos are gonna aggravate everything out otherwise your dildo inventory is ruining your story your story is fucked.

If you have if you do nothing, if you're totally normal and they're like, oh, he's just got 150 dildos. It's a quirk at that point. It's almost like that's kind of an interesting character thing that he has. Yeah. Like he's got he's normal, but I don't know what it is. I just love dildos. He's just got a lot of dildos, I guess.

I don't know. He's like Patrice O'Neill. Yes. We'll talk about his bag of dildos. But otherwise, a lot of dildos i guess i don't know he's like patrice o'neill yes we'll talk about his bag of dildos but otherwise he was patrice o'neill but he's like i just like to have like you know dildos to have fucking mess around with bitches with or whatever he would fucking bad patrice o'neill you know what i'm saying like he that's all he would do like but this isn't like that if patrice o'neill called and was like, there's a girl with her nipples cut off in my fucking bathroom.

Yeah. I believe the dildos would probably come into play at that point. Probably. He's got a he's got an exercise bag full of dildos, a whole fucking duffel bag. No matter what you're doing, if there's a dildo nearby, it changes every scenario. It's true. Everything. It's it's true.

It's funny. No matter really what you fucking do no matter what you're at a birthday party for children and there's dildos around it's weird it's bad it's terrible you'd be at the gym there's a dildo in your bag that's weird you're running for office instead of american flags behind you have dildos hanging from the ceiling very weird people would go that's very strange i don't know if i'm voting for that person dildos change everything little pro dildo for me i don't know if I'm voting for that person. Dildos change everything. Little pro dildo for me. I don't know if that's the, you know what?

It's your right to bear dildos. Your right to bear dildos. Yeah, there's a second amendment for a reason. And it is your right to have as many dildos in your possession as you want. It's so weird. So this is disturbing. They said that the prints matched everything it's the right big toe taken uh after all this the bag was one of nine that earlier people said were found

wrapped around the body and elsewhere on the second floor is what they what the detectives found now uh the uh chemist also said that the particles of blood were found inside the house uh on also on his shoes inside and outside the shoes inside and outside the house okay however um those that blood they couldn't identify because this is 88 this is pre-real you know there is dna but it takes months so at this point they can only tell you say the blood type So they know it's a similar type to the victim. And that's all they know at this point. But if there's one person massively with massive blood loss upstairs and there's a bunch of blood, I'm going to go ahead and say it's probably hers.

Yeah. Just as a, you know, I don't know. Call me fucking crazy. Call me a dreamer. But, you know, so they also said that um oh my god this is just disturbing now his stories they said you know we found blood on your fingers and forearms and all this in your car you get it in your car you got it in your shoe afterwards yeah you said it was after and uh he gave conflicting stories obviously you know he said one minute he said well i went here and there

and the next one he said well i guess I might have taken my shoes off. And whatever he was trying to bend his story to whatever the evidence they have. Right. Exactly. So the police think that after they after he choked her to death, he basically, you know, got off. He did it. That's when he did the carving and he was getting off on that.

And he did some other things that we'll talk about in a moment. And then he went to the store and bought himself a Snapple and some popcorn. So they think he's an extra huge asshole at this point. Sure. They question him and, you know, he says this is what he says to the detective in his interrogation from the recording. Quote, no, no, I didn't. I loved her. We were having an affair. I came home and she was lying in the bathroom this is when they said we think you killed her

dennis no no i didn't i loved her we were having an affair that's when he was the first time he said to the cops that they were having an affair that's when he came out when they said we think he killed her he's like no i loved her we were having an affair as a matter of fact we were fucking mutually that's how much yeah that's how much i didn't kill her okay because we were you know because no one's ever killed anyone they've loved right that's never happened for anybody they're fucking ever never ever in the million years ever really i mean that's the thing that's so great when you see when there's a married couple and one of them's dead you can eliminate the one spouse as a suspect right away. Well, they're married.

She wouldn't do that or he wouldn't do that, obviously, as you've seen from Small Town Murder. That's why people get married, because somebody tells them that they love them and they go, well, at least I'm safe with this guy. At least they'll never kill me. They'll never do it. No. So, wow. So that's what he says.

And so he tells them also, he says, as a matter of fact, we had sex before I left the house to do my errands. That's what happened. She came over, did a little bookkeeping. We had sex. I left, went around to this town, to that town, stopped at a couple places, said hi to a lady in an office, got myself a snack, came home. Oh, my God. Bathroom floor. Right.

I guess I'll take my shoes off and walk around in it. You know how that works. So that's his story. Take them off, put them on, take them off, put them on. Because there's blood inside the shoes. Yes. That's crazy. He said at that point that they said, well, how is there blood here and there?

And he said, well, when I saw something, I didn't know what it was. I saw a bunch of blood and I freaked out. So i pulled one of the bags back until i realized you know who it was and he said quote that it was her that's when i stopped and i went oh my god and i called the uh you know i called the police and they said that they asked him quote i asked him if he got any blood on himself and he said no which i don't know how you wouldn't in that scenario but he did obviously and then they found blood all over the place like we said also all throughout his bedroom And he said no, which I don't know how you wouldn't in that scenario. But he did, obviously. And then they found blood all over the place, like we said. Also all throughout his bedroom on fucking door handles, the steering wheel, front seat, pedals of his car.

It's all over the place. His car was like just a speckled polka dotted with blood, his entire fucking car and his yard and everything else. He's just dragged it all over the place. That's what happens when you're covered in blood yeah you can't get rid of it uh even on the front of his shorts that he was wearing that he didn't see on the everywhere man it's it's crazy uh under his fingernails like we said on a bottle and a can of food that he purchased before everything um wow uh he wasn't arrested until about 10 o'clock that night and uh that's when he was arrested after he didn't have signed he didn't have good excuses for the blood now he's not put in jail right away by the way here's him at this point when he's being arraigned oh there's

his picture that'll be on the social media site as well a lot of guys that everybody knows that murder small yeah he lives a very common doesn't look scary at all who else is like that oh a little man named bundy that's what i mean who else looks like they really blend in and blends in yeah you wouldn't think twice every football stadium every sunday yeah absolutely except he's like a little bit thinner and in better shape all right in 10 years he'll be the guy in the football stadium but i mean like a little push broom mustache yeah decent head of hair and yeah Just a forgettable face. Well, in the 80s, the mustache was fashionable. Yeah, that's the thing.

That's the thing. I mean, you were Tom Selleck cool with a mustache. Fucking unbelievable. So, which was cool back then. Tom Selleck's 100 now, and he does like, he does reverse mortgage commercials now. He does. He's like, let me tell you folks about something out there. He's the new Wilford Brimley now.

That's what he's turned into. I'm glad that we got a new one. We need a man with a mustache we can trust for your old people stuff if he starts selling diabetic supplies i'm gonna shit myself oh it's coming it's definitely coming absolutely i'm not a diabetic myself obviously i'm in too good a shape but i think my friends that are diabetics are sending the liberty mutual or whatever liberty medical wherever you get your diabetes supply they told me to say it like that i'm not sure why so the judge here our district attorney announces quote he was ordered to bridgewater state hospital for 20 days of psychiatric evaluation and observation to determine whether he's competent to stand trial they think he might have a screw loose or two here um so the reaction of the

community and they call his mother up the press does and his mother says this is tina baldotti she says quote my son is innocent and hangs up the phone which is a good italian mom you don't know my dennis bang and she'd hang up tell my mother i killed somebody you could find 12 women hanging around my house and all this if you eventually proved it she would she would yell at me and beat me to death but at first she'd go that's completely untrue you don't understand that's how she would answer the phone yeah my son is innocent hello he was it was framed he's framed yes miss petra gallo you're not even anymore right no god not for 40 years but yeah this is angela yeah my son's innocent he's innocent goodbye like so uh the man gary

they called gary up yeah her husband and he said quote there will be no comment from this household leave me the fuck alone can you imagine i am sad my wife is dead hey uh gare can we talk about your dead wife uh nah trying to watch jeopardy and forget about that how about no yeah i don't even drink snapple anymore i'm gonna eat my tv dinner now and fucking sit here and be depressed for christ's sake you assholes so uh rumors are swirling about all this shit too they're talking about because this is like it's a small rich little town this people go crazy this is like small town murder 101 here they go bat shit they talk about there was a big setup because the people that know dennis here that he says he didn't do it so there's a big

setup he came home was it somebody that was mad at dennis was it the porn guys international literally people were like oh my god it's the international child porn cabal that he put this guy in jail and now they're fucking coming after him that's not how that works and you know they're gonna take him down and all the shit's like no kiddie porn makers are pussies and they also like to stay under the radar bring it bitch like you know come on over yeah come on let's talk motherfucker yeah i'm not 12 let's get it on my kid's 12 and he'll kick the shit out of all not 12 let's get it on my kid's 12 and he'll kick the shit out of all of you yeah i was gonna say my kid's fucking six foot one enjoy

he's only 13 but have at it i dare you it's huge so yeah this is what i mean like that's but that's one of the rumors like because i mean it's an international crime syndicate that he busted so they're thinking people are like that must be what it is yeah it's a it's a revenge plot or maybe something else who knows then people start talking about was it some experimental sex thing was it some weird kinky shit they were into you know like like asphyxiation because people die because she died of asphyxiation i mean logical conclusion the guy's got a shitload of dildos he's got dildos he's got gags and things and pulleys and all sorts of weird bonded shit so they're wondering maybe this shit was just a mistake right you know they're thinking maybe that's what it was people didn't know what it was uh the principal of the high school they talked to them i love

when they just talk to random people this is edwin fried yeah he is the principal of needham high school he said there's a feeling something's missing that there's a piece missing to all of this so they're not just buying the simple explanation of he's a weird pervert killed her had a very bad exit strategy yeah like he's too smart for that um i think maybe he's too he thinks he's too smart for it he thinks he can talk his way out of shit maybe he's so smart that that he thinks there's no way this is all of it. They're going to think there's another piece, and therefore nobody will believe it. And I think he thought he could talk his way out of it because he's smart.

And also because he was a federal witness. I think he's got some sort. He thinks he's got some sort of something. And he's not completely wrong, as we'll talk about in a moment here. He thinks he's got some sort of something, and he's not completely wrong, as we'll talk about in a moment here. Wow. The neighbors who grew up near him said that the Baldotti family was quiet. They kept to themselves, never bothered anybody.

One person said, we never heard anything from them. They were quiet, well-behaved. I can't believe something like this happened. I can't believe something like this happened in our nice neighborhood. I hate when they say it. This this is small town this is why we do the show for because that person's shocked so we think it's funny that they think they're safe the person who's most shocked though is the uh well first of all one of the neighbors said he's always nice he's always so nice it's hard to believe he could do something like that we were all so shocked that's a neighbor the one that is most puzzled is the postal guy yeah he the guy that helped him blown away by this we'll talk about him in a second that lady the donna reum

that he went to school with she said i didn't hear or see anything when she drove by she said nothing unusual happened she had driven by that day and didn't see anything another neighbor said i look at the house and say god did this go on there i don't think he had any history of anything like that but we don't ever really know do we guess what else is in there you don't ever really know shit piles of dildos lots of dildos so many so many dildos and fucking blindfolds and mouth gags it's disturbing mags were in your neighborhood do you know how many butt plugs were there mixed with kiddie porn the postal guy from the setup said quote said that it was just completely a stunner he said quote it's not the same person

i dealt with if it's true he is not not buying it. He said he was a cooperative, articulate, intelligent individual. He said, I was completely shocked. He said, I was probably of the most of the most surprised, if not the most surprised person around by all of this. He said that it's certainly out of character from the person I know. I don't I'm not sure I believe this is what he said. He said in 1987 what he he had, what he described as a small collection of pornography. Even the porn, he said, seems like out of character for him.

Not quite a dealer. Not quite. You know, it's a personal use. So he's gets out after 20 days of the evaluation. Yeah. And he goes for a bail hearing, as you would imagine. Sure. Obviously, what do you think will happen here

to a man who cuts somebody's nipples off in his house? Head on home to your dildos. Yeah, he's split out on bail, actually. He is let out on $100,000 bail. There were nipples. $100,000 bail he's released on, Jimmy. Loose nipples in the house and he's allowed to go home. A dead woman.

Yeah. Carved up. Yeah. Picked fucking nipples, Jimmy. Loose nipples and the house and he's allowed to go home a dead woman yeah carved up yeah picked fucking nipples jimmy's nipples and dildos everywhere head home no i'm not a big look okay they said that they're gonna put a bracelet on him yeah so if he goes up more than 150 feet away from his telephone you know the alarm goes off right big fucking deal this happened very close to his telephone so that's not really an issue. Within that proximity of the telephone, nipples came off a woman.

12 feet from his telephone. Like there's a force field around your telephone that keeps women's nipples on them. No, it's not what happened. I'll bet you every dildo is within that proximity. Oh, they're all in that proximity. What the fuck? They said they released him because the jails were overcrowdedhuh so they're released so they couldn't have him in there now i'm not a big law and order bullshit let's put i'm not that's just not me i'm not do that i sold shit i shouldn't have sold when i was younger and i've done a lot of shit

so i don't believe that mistakes that don't physically hurt people i don't believe in really you can don't walk them up forever you can get over that shit i'm not i'm not like that it's a grace period i i look i'm one of those i'm not i'm not one of those people it's like let's lock people up so we all feel better right you know well now he's in there and i don't want him watching any tv while he's in there like i don't fucking care right if if if giving people in prison some educational shit and letting them do whatever makes them statistically less likely to fucking cut another person's nipples off when they get out, I'm all for it. I don't fucking care. Teach them culinary stuff.

Whatever's better is whatever works. I'm for, hey, we can do an experiment, see what works best, and then do that. You know, like fucking people should do. Like science stuff. I really like that sort of thing. Intent help yeah so i get it that there's not enough sense in jail but there's got to be some guy in there for fucking drugs or something that you can let him out and not let yeah the mammary mutilator go free somebody with a fucking nickname you know like not that's his nickname i just made that up

off the top of my head but you understand what i'm saying like somebody that deserves one for sure this is disgusting i want to fucking just kick this guy in the dick and we're letting him out on this for a hundred grand yeah no and somebody that's close to him like mad close yeah that's what i'm saying he employs her he killed someone exactly where they're letting him stay in his mom's house it makes no sense it just doesn't make any sense so the neighbors who were so shocked now start a huge petition to get his bail revoked they don't want him on the street obviously right uh they say the prosecutors have painted a picture of him as a sinister sex criminal yeah you know a murderer

everything else they hired an attorney to make their case and uh the the guy said you know, a murderer or everything else. They hired an attorney to make their case. And the, the guy said, you know, we don't know if I can do anything for them, but I'll give it a shot. He said, I don't think there are any indicators of who is going to commit murders unless they are a serial murder murderer. So it might be a hard case to push the one resident here, Charles Hogan helped organize the drive. He said that a quote,

the judges are looking to consider the release of violent offenders to home arrest as a way of managing the prison population. And, you know, they don't want that there. Obviously, they don't want this guy home. Exactly. Especially because he killed him, killed her there. He said, given the allegations and the offense and his alleged involvement in child pornography, this bail is completely inappropriate. And there's the lawyer they got said as a former prosecutor in the homicide unit for six years in boston i know there was

never any similar bail in cases i've ever prosecuted i think this is a first where you butcher a woman and you're a hundred thousand dollars but that's insane right that's fucking insane it's a lot i dude they i'm a grand they held oj without bail and he was fucking oj you knew who he was like if he was going somewhere people go where's oj going they could see him no way this guy could slip away in the night and who cares if he cut his bracelet off now you don't know where he is and really the list of people that oj hated uh was zero anymore yeah oj was really not a threat to anyone else the only person he hated was one that's what i mean not we're not defending oj we're just saying not that oj was a threat to the public at that point he probably wasn't but this guy is a fucking threat to the public i'm saying i mean technically

uh this wasn't a hatred of a person this was a compulsive desire of somebody this is even worse he was into this this is what he makes his dick hard. Boy. Yeah. So they're all doing that. The one guy says, I don't like the fact that a man who has been accused of such a violent crime as this, who has been involved with child pornography, is staying two blocks from my child's elementary school. By the way, there's an elementary school point three miles from their house. Oh, yeah. So that'll say something there. And another lawyer says, I don't like it as set as a precedent. I understand that in some cases, an ankle bracelet and house arrest has been used to punish drunk drivers or something of that offense.

But I don't like it for a case like this. And it's not like they bolt that thing to your fucking bone. Those things come off all the time and people just leave the bracelet there. And then the guys go off and they can cut somebody's body parts off find somebody else that's what i'm saying i don't care if the alarm goes off no even 90 seconds for the cops to get there is you could slip away it's a little too too much you know what maybe the possibility of it is is september 30th which is right after this 1988 is jorgen jensen's trial begins oh gee you don't think that the fucking you don't think that that has anything to do with an un literally an unprecedented bail of a hundred thousand dollars

for a brutal accused sinister sex crime right some sex murder you're gonna let him out on the street if he wasn't a federal fucking witness for the most uh motherfucker please uh child yeah ever this is what they do with federal witnesses it's the way it is too because they uh in the in the homicide book the david simon book they talk about a couple of uh mob guys a mob guy who was a witness for the federal government they sent his kids down there in the program basically and one of his jerk off kids got in a fight and shot some guy on the street and it was obvious that he did it he admitted that he did it and the fbi came scooped him right up out of jail

and moved him on to the next city the next fucking day judge set a fucking like a you know thousand dollar bail on a murder charge and got him the fuck out of there never heard from him again charges dropped wow because that was more important because we need them exactly so if you're gary and your wife was just eviscerated and fucking all this horrible shit's been done to her and they're letting him out on the street because your child porn guy like yeah we want the child porn guy off the street but that has nothing to do with my fucking wife like she's not getting justice now because to gary the child this guy is not as much of a threat as this guy exactly in my whole life yep um now the jorgen jensen guy he says that u.s laws do not apply to him as his whole thing here

he says that uh he this he's on trial for selling thousands and thousands of dollars worth of kitty porn obviously we told you what he did um he said that uh basically can't touch me yeah he said uh at this point he waives his right to a jury trial he wants to have a judge trial bench trial if convicted he faces up to 20 years in prison and a fine of half a million dollars as he should um they defense adds a twist here they say uh they try to say that the the trial will revolve around jurisdictional questions basically saying is it you know he crossed here but he's from there and they're going to try to muddy the waters with that sort of shit which is fucking gross absolutely disgusting the whole fucking thing here so october 7th 1988 dennis is still out, and it comes to light a little something that

they found in his safe. Uh-oh. His safe, Jimmy. Oh, boy. Imagine how gross that is. That's where everything that- The dildos are in the open. Yeah.

Think about it. All that other crazy shit we found, that's just hanging out in his room. Not in the safe. What does he lock up behind closed doors? What does he want nobody to see? Well, what he has is Polaroids in a safe in the safe do you know what the polaroids are from what kids are they they're not kids no it's worse oh the polaroids are close-up shots of his crime yeah he kept those he took pictures of the nipples after he cut them off oh no he

took pictures of the wounds he yeah took pictures of his dick inside him he took pictures he had sex with her then he took pictures of he used the dildos yep in all orifices and took pictures of that wow of the things in there everything he's been fantasizing about the pictures he wants yeah of exactly how i want to pose them and cut and weird and whatever the fuck crazy weird shit turns him on that's what he did and he took them unreal and he put them in his fucking in his closet and his safe and he was like yeah you know they can't find them there they found distinguishing marks obviously and and the wounds that matched up with the bodies so they know it

was him it was five uh photographs five polaroids that he took um yeah so at this point they ask for um his bail to be revolved they're like okay he's not i can't say he's innocent now we found pictures of what he did let's get the fuck out of here um so they uh oh my god jesus christ the judge says yes fuck that yanks him back in jail says quote mr baldotti is a threat to society the community in the neighborhood where he lives which is a high residential area yeah by schools oh my god the uh his attorney said the bail shouldn't be revoked though imagine how imagine that's your job i feel that you have to do that because you're a lawyer that's your job everybody deserves a defense but i mean if you're this guy how do you go up there and go you really want me to go out there and say dude they found polaroids right in your fucking

no one else put them there dennis right come on bro he's got to go up to judge and go we don't know if those are his i mean you know they could be anybody could slip them into a locked safe right that's possible i know his combination he talks a lot right he wrote it down somewhere and lost it at the 7-11 bail at one time come on let's hang on to it you know he hasn't killed anybody in the last month he's been out that's what i have to say judge can you be cool about this just give him like a oh man when he got bail you know what he should have said the first time when they did do it he should have said sweet that is a bonus i guarantee he said fucking really yeah he was like for real holy're good, he probably said to the lawyer. High five. So they said that, the prosecutor said, also the large collection of child porn and all that sort of thing. It's pretty significant by the elementary school. He also said, quote, there was some mutilation to her body.

As far as what mutilation, I will not go into that in detail. But, you know, this is bad and we should yank him in. So they do. They revoke his bail. He wants evidence suppressed. He wants it. Doesn't want it in there. First, the Polaroids, obviously.

Yeah. He placed himself in evidence because he had the photographs and one of the photographs. He was visible in it. So that's a problem. That's a problem. Yeah. The other one were pictures that he had, you know, taken from their house, which is pretty bad. So that's a hard one to ones that he stole from Gary and from the bedroom there.

But he says the argument is on the seizure from his bedroom closet of Polaroids and portions of nude female body, which is the fucking the victim. The victim. Right. of nude female body, which is the fucking, the victim, the victim. Right.

He said, uh, the seizure from his bedroom of a camera, which to take Polaroid photographs as well. Uh, the judge reads all these out, blah, blah, blah.

Said the photographs. Wow. Photographs could have been seized for the determining presence of blood and thus fall into the scope of the warrant. That's what they say. They go, Hey, we could take anything to test it for blood. And then if we look inside it and it's photographs well then whatsoever's on

those photographs we're not blind we can see that and that all goes in line we were just looking for blood so he's trying to say they weren't looking for those photographs they were looking for blood so you know and they said well i mean they were in plain sight they were in plain view in clear plastic folders so we saw what the fuck was in there. We were disgusted by it. And we knew that they corresponded to the crime that happened 10 feet from there. Kind of put two and two together, you know, investigation style like you do. Having plastic envelopes like trading cards.

He put them in like a Michael Jordan rookie. He put them in like a file folder, like a like a sleeve like you'd put a like a dishwasher warranty you'd save it just in case you'd throw it that was my the registration i'll throw that on my file thing and put it i wouldn't do that but some people do so jesus christ register it james it's got a year warranty that's what i'm saying i never do any of this shit though i'm like i don't know i'm not gonna get online about my fucking dishwasher i'm not gonna even call them if it breaks. No, I'm going to throw it out and get angry. So the he says there's no probable cause to issue warrants to search him or his car or anything else.

All you did was find a butchered woman and child porn in my house. What gives you the right to search me? Was he serious? Holy shit. Wow. This is crazy the uh oh my god the victim's husband authorized the search of the vehicle that she came there in and that she had driven to work that day and uh he had no standing to change to to change challenge the lawfulness of that because i think he took her car and shit all over it got blood all over it they also he also contends that the state

chemist that tested him for signs of occult blood uh didn't show probable cause and they said well you you agreed to do it though if you're voluntary doesn't matter if we have probable cause or not we can ask you to do anything yeah we can ask to look inside your butthole if you let us then i mean it's on you it's on you if that's where you put the murder weapon that's what i'm saying you can say no that's unreasonable you need a warrant to get inside my fucking orifice but you want to get up in my crack you're gonna need a fucking piece of paper or you can be like right on and grab your ankles so at that point what do you want from us so know your rights motherfucker i don't know what to tell you so he says uh the affidavit was more than relevant. The defendant, it was his employee, worked in the office, found murdered right there.

Obvious shit. It's going nowhere, the evidence. January 1989 is Dennis's trial. It's a six-day trial. The police witnesses testified about everything, sexually explicit magazines, portraying women in various forms of bondage and all the shit and dildos he doesn't testify obviously no we better not no now the defense's only defense is they seize on one thing and it's really weak they seize on the fact that around noon that she the victim in the office had a phone call and talked on the phone.

So it's probably, according to the defense, whoever she talked to on the phone at noon must have killed her. Got it. That's what it was. He gets a guy on the, he's got one of the investigators, the medical examiner here. And the lawyer says, would it assist you? Because they were talking about time of death. And you can't, as a medical examiner, you're not taking into account like the um what they said who left where you're just looking at the science of it and you put a time of death you can't put it there is no half hour window in time of day he died

sometime between 10 30 and 11 impossible it never happens they give like a six hour window because you don't fucking know everybody's different temperatures rigor happens different size of people it's it's a big math equation so the medical examiner said sometime between 8 a.m and 2 p.m that's all i know and because it's a warm day she would have stayed out of rigor longer she's smaller blah blah blah so they said the lawyer said would it assist you if you were to learn that miss her haratsis took a telephone call at 12 o'clock noon. And the guy was like, well, then probably after then. Sometime between then and 2.15 when we found her dead, then I would put it right in there.

Anytime after she was talking and when we found her dead, I would say sometime in there she's probably killed. Well, thank you for giving me that four-hour window chop. I went to medical school. Now we have two more hours. That's it. To catch up to. That's all it is.

So they said by two, she was definitely dead. We know that much because we fucking found her and she had blood out and all that sort of thing. Now they also tried to seize on the fact that it just shows blood type, right? It doesn't show that it was her blood. They were like, well, that was the only blood spread all over the house so yeah the jury was juries don't need dna when it's that much of a thing they're like nobody else was bleeding so you know it's probably her blood we've got a body sans blood and footprints with her blood from the goddamn body all the way you know if they start at the body it's probably hers the prosecution closing here they say that he demonstrated the prolonged determination

to kill his victim uh needed for a first degree conviction because the jury can either pick first or second degree and second degree i'll get him out after 15 years or so and first and get him life with or without parole so uh yeah they maintained that he left the house to do some errands he found the body but they don't believe that the prosecutor said quote he was jealous of gina and gary uh and he planned the cruel and vicious way for eugenia to die that's what he says the defense clothed closing he says he turns to jerry and he goes come on what else can you say right come on i mean you heard the evidence look at him look at that mustache it's an honest mustache right i mean you know the evidence look at him look at that mustache it's an honest

mustache right i mean you know what i'm talking about so he's in a weird shit clearly the evidence is wrong you know all it's all wrong so he said that he couldn't he he killed her he could not have they said that he cooperated with the police he displayed true grief they said if he really killed her he couldn't have reacted that way okay you know he couldn't have pretended so january 26th the jury comes in at the end of the day they've deliberated for four and a half hours and they can't reach a decision they need another day so they go home they go all right we're gonna give you guys one more day so mid-afternoon they come in then they come out and they say we need you to explain oh my god we need an explanation what's the difference between first and second degree murder

yeah and they set a first and second degree murder? And they said a conviction for second degree murder made him eligible after 15 years for parole. First degree conviction could be returned. And they said only if the jury believed that he planned the murder so intently that he made a clear decision to kill Horatius before he attacked her. The killer must also have used extreme cruelty or atrocity to warrant a first-degree murder conviction. The prosecution said they asked for the first degree on the grounds that the strangulation took several minutes and then he systematically took her apart and did horrible shit to her

and it was pretty gross and all that sort of thing. So finally, after 12 hours of deliberation, the jury comes back. We think we got it now guilty of yeah first degree murder really yeah first degree so the judge is more than happy good more than happy um he says that he killed her with extreme cruelty and he says you sir yeah may fuck off life without without parole, motherfucker. Take a hike.

I am shocked. Take a walk, sir. That they got that right. Well, wait till you hear what they get wrong, too. So Gary, the husband, said he's just glad it's over. January 89, Jorgen Jensen verdict comes in. So it was right after that. So it was all right in a row. You know this shit has a lot to do

with everything here um they find him here uh guilty yeah of whatever the hell he was doing he had a copenhagen bookstore and selling all this shit uh yeah absolutely disgusting they say you sir again may fuck off this is not though. 37 months imprisonment. Three years and a month? And $40,000 of... For the most high-profile child kiddie porn thing in the history. That. Three months. That's what you get.

That's what you... Again, and I don't believe... A little man to Copenhagen for that. That's what I'm saying. 40 grand is barely going to cover the expenses of the stink. Right. And I'm not saying that, like, also, again, I'm not one of these people who's like, I don't believe that sentencing a person to jail should be sentencing them to some, like, other form of violence. Because that's not a sentence.

A sentence is jail. So when people are in jail, you should also make sure they don't stab each other like crazy and rape each other and things. Except this guy. Except this this guy you just hope you go 37 months someone's gonna fuck him up right right he's the danish kiddie porn guy yeah someone's gonna cut his fucking throat in the shower i assume i hope 37 months is torture for him i hope i hope he's just they generally put those guys in with other guys like them, and they don't stab each other. That's true. I was going to say, no, because they're all gross. I was going to say...

Because they're all pussies. His main concern should be whether the skinheads or the black guys are going to stab me first. That should be his concern at this point. They hold a charity ball for Eugenia's, I guess, people here. Memory. In her memory there on April 1st, 1990. It's at the Crowne plaza on route 9 there they have all this stuff and uh it was if they had one earlier i guess with her name and they do it for

cancer benefit so that's really nice even in the nice girl even in death they're using her for cancer benefit like really nice april 1992 okay now we've said like we've said how does the lawyer go up with this dennis finally has one where i don't think he can find a lawyer to do it for him he acts as his own attorney again who else did that yeah exactly he loved it what is he trying to do he wants his porn back wait what he wants all the porn. Returned to him. The dildos, the bondage material, everything taken from his house, he wants returned to him. That's his property.

I miss my dildos. Okay. Including the kiddie porn. What? He wants his kiddie porn back. Jimmy, I'm not fucking shitting you. How do you file that? He wants those items seized that the Commonwealth now has in its possession.

file that he wants those items seized that the commonwealth now has in its possession those items that have been returned to the possession of meldotti uh they want them to be returned to him or designated family member um anyway okay he says oh my god jesus christ with a straight face he went in and he said that he argued that the prosecutors were refusing to return seized items simply because of their sexual nature in violation of his constitutional rights. It's called evidence. Doesn't that just stay? I would. Well, especially the dildos were used in the commission of a fucking felony commission of a post murder.

Yeah. Disgusting this. He wants those backs. Of course he does. They're fucking souvenirs. You wouldn't want. But yeah, of course that would. He's gross. Wow. What that's like the the deer head that you get from the carcass that's disgusting yeah he said that to the judge quote they're asking you to infringe on my first

amendment rights your honor that's what he says ask acting as his own attorney he said he wants to take the court the case back to superior court for a full hearing. He indicated that he did not want to be the judge said, I don't want to be the guy making the fucking decision here. He said he made no ruling and said that he was inclined to order that all his belongings should be released to him. But he said that that order will have be stayed pending a review by the appeals court. He said, Jesus Christesus christ man he got to question people on the stand while he questioned people he asked he didn't ask the whereabouts about his pornography he instead quizzed the investigators about a towel found next to gina's body and asked why only 10 of the 12 empty envelopes taken from the office had been returned to family members that's what he said uh 1992 finally there's a ruling the judge rules i gotta get a gavel

yeah where's my gavel um the judge rules he can have his porn back oh what all of it i'm not shitting you um he said this is the most infuriating thing ever he said that the commonwealth returned everything except the envelope bearing the victim's return address and the contents of her purse what about the kiddie porn he then stayed the order pending a review but he said he reasoned that he's serving a life term in prison without the possibility of parole from this he found no compelling public interest just justifying forfeiture of these items seized he noted that baldotti's property would be returned to a designated representative and not to baldotti himself whether baldotti would be permitted to possess the returned items in prison would be

according to the judge determined by correctional facility rules and not an issue before him this is fucking wild they said um uh yeah the district attorney said you know there's images of naked children including 24 magazines depicting naked children with you know titles such as disgusting shit that we're not going to talk about here we can't get that back he said you know what the fuck basically and they said well this is going to be the most infuriating shit you've ever heard in your life okay the order to return all of this shit uh pissed everybody off they said there was pictures of pre-adolescent and adolescent children which very well could be in violation of the state's child pornography laws why the fuck is he going to get that and they said that that U.S. Postal Inspectors, wow, intent to distribute must be proven in

order to convict under the state's child pornography law. So basically, it's a crime to get it. Right. And it's a crime to give it. Right. But if he has it and he didn't produce it. It's not a crime. And he's not going to give it to anybody else at that moment there was no technical present tense personal use i have it and i whack

to it wow fucking statute no no whacking to it statute if you can get in possession of it and not get caught so they said to have it the judge said technically by law i can't keep it from technically it's not illegal by in the scope of the law even though it's clearly illegal right and i would have to give it back to him call your senator um also to add insult to injury as the boston globe put it baldotti claims that if his items aren't returned he should receive restitution oh my god you should have to purchase those we should well at that point we should lock him up forever for uh what the there you go you just tried to you just tried to sell me kitty porn

you sold the da kitty porn case closed burn case closed done now burn that shit oh my god that should be enough right right? Saying I deserve restitution? You just told me you're trying to sell me a kid's dick. Yeah. Gets worse. September 95, he sues over cancer fears. He said he's upset because they used a chemical agent to detect traces of blood on him. So he's suing for $6 million because he might get cancer from it. Join a class action suit, sir.

It's the chemical orthotolidine, which is known to cause cancer. Probably not in one application. I would assume people are constantly exposed to it, like the doctor probably has to worry about it. Not one guy who touched his arm once. It's the guy that sprays the Roundup

that is the guy that's uh most exposed to it you know what i mean it's not yeah it's not the it's not it's not the guy that stocks the shelves exactly they said that it is uh he said that he's very nervous at the thought of coming down with cancer and has difficulty sleeping police captain said he wasn't exposed that he wasn't exposed to the chemical the chemical is not applied directly to the skin you can see it like over it. It's whatever. It attaches itself to it.

It's like how they do fingerprints back in the day with a certain trick you can do. Well, there's a trick you can do to get prints that are on shit with the... Eh, never mind. So August... Watch Beverly Hills Cop 2. It's in there.

With the tape? No, no, no. You can burn something and get a... Oh, okay. Yeah. So August 23rd, 1996, the final ruling on the porn. I've never been so interested in whether a man gets his pornography or not here. So they finally said that the Commonwealth argues that restoring his possession of four

dildos, 24 items of alleged child pornography and numerous sexually explicit productions including tamed and tortured tit body torture and tortured ladies would justify would justifiably spark outrage and disgust in the general public the decision is you cannot have your fucking porn back you disgusting asshole good no they said it's a three judge panel said that it's not in the public interest for your disgusting ass to get your porn back fuck you how's that we threw it away we don't care they said in these circumstances to return the proper property would be so offensive to the basic concepts of decency treasured in a civilized

society it would undermine the confidence that the people have the right to expect in the criminal justice system. Exactly. That's why there's appeals. Okay. 2013, Dennis and two other prisoners bring a lawsuit up

to try to get voting rights from prison. Well, we've already established that. Again, worry about not getting ass raped. Right. Worry about whether the skinheads or the black guys will stab you first for what you've done. Are you fucking kidding me? You don't get a say in what happens out here when you have life without parole.

That's what I'm saying. Fuck you. If you're going to come back, then yeah, maybe, or I don't know, whatever the fuck, we'll talk about it. Life without? Fuck you. Because I looked it up. up massachusetts too is one of the 14 states that prohibit people from voting while incarcerated in prison but return the right immediately upon release so you don't have to wait five years there's no reapplication for your rights you get out you can vote tomorrow

because you're out that's i hate that shit when they well that person can't vote now well you know what come on let's see a fucking break if somebody wants to vote well that's that's that's i hate that shit when they well that person can't vote now well you know what come on let's see a fucking break if somebody wants to vote well that's that's that's going in a different direction if they want to participate in society like that that's a completely different direction than whatever put them in prison right that shows that they are super invested in what's happening that's like getting a job doing things like that voting these are like society things that we do so if you're involved in that that's that's great that's good yeah that's not underground so i like that but i don't like that he wants to be involved in the shit that happens out here you know yeah

you've lost that right they told him to fuck off anyway but still uh legislators said that people who've committed murder and other heinous crimes don't deserve to vote one guy said this is paul frost a representative this is an issue about justice. Philosophically, no. This one guy says he doesn't believe that inmates have the right to vote at all. I don't know. Whatever. I guess while you're in there, it's kind of hard. But at the same time, I don't know.

Whatever. That's a life without. I never want you telling me how to live my life. Your life without. I don't care. You showed us that you don't know how to live a life. Well, that's what I mean. You've kind of lost it with a murder. Like, we need to separate murder from everything else too i think that's the

other thing we have to separate like violent crime big time like we need to separate how people are housed everything you can't put violent criminals in with people who aren't violent that's you're you're making a predatory situation you're making people other people violent that wouldn't have been violent because now they have to be violent and it's not good for later and i'm people will say oh well they're in prison fuck them i'm not like that anyway but either way even if you are like that unless you're this guy they're not going to be in prison forever yeah so when they do get out do you want them extra pissed off or do you want them with like kind of a purpose and somewhere to go? Yeah, I'd rather just somewhere to go something to do. I don't know.

That's just me. The other point is that that's about as political as we get. If you're going to push somebody in prison and just say, well, whatever, fuck them. They're in prison and they're on a not so long term. Eventually, they're not going to be in prison. I mean, they are. Help them get not in prison. And you just now sharpened the knife.

Exactly. They're going to come out and be fucked. You, fuck, you're going to eat those words. And it's only because people, and I get the thought behind this. Of course. And I get the feeling behind. So they go in there, do something wrong, and they get to get an education, or they get to get that, and then they come out and they've got to step up over my kid who has no education well first of all you're that person's prison education and their prison on there we'll put them below your kid on the scale of things anyway so don't worry about that if your kid's

such a fuck-up he's getting picked over by uh somebody that has a violent prisoner i get it violent because i didn't go to school or anything like that too but i don't know i just i don't care about shit like that. You have to think about the bigger picture anyway, because what about, you know, otherwise this person is going to keep going back in jail. And in the end, guess who keeps paying for them? You. You're upset about it. So if you don't want if you're so upset about it, make them not have to go back.

It's better. I don't know. So anyway, they they ended up doing some other shit, but it's not has nothing to do with them. They went nowhere with that. So anyway, he currently is in at MCI Norfolk, which is a medium security prison. Yeah.

I don't, I feel like I was in Massachusetts. That's in Massachusetts. And that's the County they're in now. So he is there still in prison. So good for him. It's been over 30 years and he definitely, certainly deserves to be there and he'll be there a while. I mean, he's born over 30 years and he definitely certainly deserves to be there.

And he'll be there a while. I mean, he's born in 55, so he's only in his 60s. Wow. He's got some more time left. He could be there another 20 years. He's barely older than Don Lemon. That's what I mean. Barely.

That's a shock that he was young. Eugenia Conti Horatis was buried at the Edwards Church Cemetery in Framingham. I believe that's where she's from. Yeah. And yeah, that poor girl. Jesus. I believe that's where she's from. Yeah. And yeah, that poor girl. Jesus, 22 years old. So young. What a waste.

22 years old. That is disturbing. And even more disturbing, for some reason, all over fucking eBay are for sale pictures from this case. Of what? Here is, you can look here. I'll put them on social media here's for 17 just a picture of dennis standing there being arraigned oh like at the courthouse at the courthouse they're like professional like press pictures that were like that were like they're

they're from like newspapers that were but they're the originals wow so there's that here's the picture of gina yeah that the family gave them family gave them. It's like a yearbook. It's like her senior yearbook shot. How much was that one? $17. And then, what is it? $22 Canadian here is Dennis. This is when the jury was taken back to his house.

The jury was taken to the crime scene, and this is him standing watching the jury watch the bathroom. And there's that. And then here is him leaving the crime scene with uh surrounded by police officers about it no oh you know he's not he's very disappointed i hate that we had to be here with strangers this is my happy place this is the happy place now his house that house at 25 paul revere yeah is the address in Needham. That house sold in 2002 for $405,000, then sold again in 2003 for $545,000.

It's currently off the market. Someone lives there. I don't know if they know what happened there. I'm sure they do. I fucking hope so. That neighborhood, someone had to have told them. Somebody told them. Someone told them.

But right now, the Zestimate on the thing there on Zillow is $1, 1 million 7218 dollars that's a nice return after 15 years not bad what about the one people they sold it for a 140 000 profit in a year not bad not too shabby they bought it cheap because it's a murder house and then they fucking unload it to someone who didn't know it was a murder house where'd they go property made some cash that is needham pennsylvania or pennsylvania massachusetts and i don't know one of the most twisted weird fucked up people i don't i'm i would be surprised if there's not more i'm shocked if that's just his first that's i think he's done it before but not to this extent

i think there's somewhere in boston or somewhere outside of his comfort zone there are places where they have found women maybe you know street women things like that children possibly whatever he could find that would but that were they didn't know they found him behind a dumpster or something and that was his first attempts and he never got to do his thing and finally he had in his environment with nobody around all the dildos all the dildos. All the dildos. All the bullshit. All the cutting he wanted. He could do anything he wanted with somebody little that he could work out his fantasy.

Finally, maybe he couldn't fucking this was it. I don't know. But personally, just from what I've heard, I would be surprised if it was his first. Although the clumsiness of the getaway would suggest that he definitely didn't plan it out very well for a guy who's smarter than that so or he got to a point where he was like fuck there is blood everywhere and i can't get this is my parents house yeah i'm not going to get her out of here i'm just going to call the cops do you think that he started trying to just trying to have sex with her she resisted and so he started strangling her possibly to maybe to whatever. And then once he's strangling her, I mean, we got to go all the way with it. Can't choke her halfway and let her go home to her husband. She's going to tell.

Who's going to come over and kick the shit out of me, probably, or call the cops or do something. Find out I got his pictures. Come over with a bunch of guys from Framingham and beat the piss out of me while screaming about the Red Sox. That's not a good thing. Don't want that to happen. So, you know, maybe he decided to go the rest of the way kill her and then once he killed her he was like well she's dead now i get to do anything you know what else am i going to do but all the shit i want to do well then once he bagged her up he was probably like oh my god a dead body is much heavier than i

thought this is heavy there's blood everywhere i don't know where to put a dead body because i'm not you know i haven't done this a million times even filling it into bags from my house to take my house what am i going to drive away with this what if i get pulled over this is my parents house that's what i mean so who knows i don't know i don't know if you if you know tell us tell somebody but most of all tell the world get on apple podcast that purple icon give us a review they help a ton they really do uh we don't know why five stars would be wonderful also go to shut up and give me murder.com where we have to announce that the first part of the year shows i think it's the first four or five months from may through may have been moved again 2021 because obviously there's no thousand person theater shows going on anywhere in the

country so we're not going to be the only ones doing that that would be insane and you'd be insane and it would be pointless so we look like dicks and then we get you sick yeah we're no one's doing any of that so it'll be moved and when we can do it we'll do it and we are going to have another virtual live show yes this time we'll do the actual small town murder we'll do a case it'll be just like a live show we we got a better sound setup this time it's going to be really awesome and like a real live show just in your living room because we can't get anywhere else to you guys so do that check all that out listen to crime and sports as well also listen to ps i hate this movie follow us on social media right please we are at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook and at

small town murder on instagram patreon you want to have the bonus episodes. Right. They are awesome. They're really great. We have tons of good Patreon stuff. We really do. It's not just us sitting here, you know, dicking off on Patreon.

It's a real thing. We make it funny. It's always good. And you can get all that bonus stuff, including last week's, which was on the American Murder documentary on Netflix about Chris Watts, that horrible shit that he did to his wife.

What a story. His fucking poor little babies. Everything that happened today is terrible, but compared to that, it was those babies. I can't get that out of my fucking head. James, to get that out of my head, I searched him and read up on his behavior in prison. He was caught.

He's such an idiot. He was caught with his underwear and Vaseline, James, in another guy's cell. There you go. There you go. It's great. There you go, Watts. Well, he has that great body that he's been working on.

So you can get all of that wonderful, terrible stuff there. And you get all the crime and sports bonus, too. So tons of amazing bonus stuff. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. And also, Jimmy will give you a shout out and mess up your name and if you just want a shout out and to have good karma you can do that as well be a producer in another way that would be over on paypal using our email address crime in sports at gmail.com that said i know what i need right now and that is i need to hear the names of the most wonderful

goddamn people in the world who would never ever kill us and put us in two separate garbage bags jimmy hit me with them now this week's executive producers are lisa letterman uh what did i do god damn it on the second one second one lucy i think yes crookshank uh anthony foley andrew couch riddell turner Drew Couch, Riddell Turner, Chris Hornberger, Jesse G, Tony Arzaga, Hector Grimshaw, Jared Watkins, Joanne Ahern, Sean Sheedon, Molly McDermott, Rachel Funderburk, Karen James, and Jordan Bennett. You guys, we can't do it. Thank you guys so much. Every week I say it, but for real, thank you so, so Bennett. You guys, we can't do it. Thank you guys so much.

Every week I say it, but for real, thank you so, so much. You guys are the greatest. Thank you. Other producers this week are Ernesto Ortiz. Hey. We love Ernesto. Ernesto. What's up, buddy?

We love him. We miss you, Ernesto. You're a good man. We fucking miss the shit out of you, brother. You're one of the reasons I miss doing shows here. Absolutely. He's a Phoenix comic who is one of the few that we like, honestly. Adore, really.

He's terrific. And he's funny, too. Very funny guy. Find him on Twitter or wherever. Ernesto Ortiz. I don't know what his handle is. It's probably like something. I don't know.

If you look up that, you'll find him. Yeah, he's a great dude. He's a great guy. He'll be friends with us or following us. Yeah, you'll know that. That's the guy. Other producers are Raisa Wadden, I think. Anthony Munoz. Patricia Hillier. be friends with us yeah or following us yeah you'll know that's the guy yeah other producers are rice a wadden i think anthony muñoz patricia hillier offensive lineman for the cincinnati

bengals i think so it's a hall of famer he is thanks anthony muñoz sorry ernesto anthony's cooler patricia hilliard uh shannon st louis she's uh the daughter of st lou Louis. Emily Petrowski. Juanita Sinan. I don't think that's Simon. I think it's Sinan. Giovanna Vargas. Lee Jennings. Oh, boy. Kat Ferguson.

I mean, this isn't going to be a good week for me. Rosie Goldstein. Dave Brown. Tina Gresham. Elizabeth Jay. Michaela Campbell. Kayla Christina. Here's what I did.

I write better with pencil so I wrote it in pencil I can't read pencil that's the I can write better but I can't read reading is the other issue uh Kayla Christine Michaela Campbell Elizabeth J Dylan Marsh Kyla Joy Martha with no last name Valerie Ann Woods uh Destiny Wool Slayer better with that light nope okay turn another light on for jerry does not not help no so so the light actually bounces off the pencil so then now that now the whole sheet's just a blur now it's like wet asphalt i'm gonna do my best listen uh sarah turner i said that michelle femmins destiny wool slayer eliza rose joel for joe freeman miles joiner michelle warren Joe Freeman, Miles Joyner, Michelle Warren, Bonsai Hanson, Frank Crowley, Maureen Perno, Corona Prozzi, I think, Prozzi, Brendan with no last name, Reed with no last name, Kate

Foshee, Benjamin Fresco, Rachel Barters, Dominic Penix, I think. That can't be penis, right? I hope not. Ordo, Ordo Discordae, whoa boy. Nope, it's never going to happen. Cynthia, Ordo, Discordae. Whoa, boy. Nope. It's never going to happen. Cynthia Jones, Julia. Nope, that's Julie Brooks.

Amanda Kavanaugh, Elizabeth Rochelle, Carmen Perez, Jeff Watson. Jordan with no last name. Meg Good, 1981. Casey Boyd, Boyce. Katie Mc… Oh, boy. Meowth, Medwid. That's what I did.

Michael Ratkovich. I know a guy named Kovach, and he's a fucking rat, so that makes sense. Bubble Sprite. Sarah Grusing. Jessica Kempfer. Talia Dabs. Clayton Barney. Oh, what did I do?

Oh, my God. John? That can't be right. Jono. All that for John? Jono. Oh, I was going to say. can't be right. Jono. All that for John? Jono. Oh, I was going to say. Jono Wynn.

All that Heffman and Hahn for John, Jimmy. There's an issue here. Clayton Barney. Talia Dabbs. Mary Greats. Maddie with no last name. Nikki Albertson. Eric Gonzalez.

Julia Kaleher. Samantha Pitchell. Raylene Gutierrez. Ashley Witham. Mike Jefferson. Jeremy Barella. Alex Haywood, Anastasia Sigelski, Luke Hopper, Jackie Meadows, Caroline Edwards, Adam Crane, Steph with no last name, Kimes emily osborne mary mahaffy mehaffy christy patcholich drunk bray wyatt that's a wrestler right yes i think so uh nick longley probably luke's kid i'm sure bradley drivdahl uh susan nichols patrick crekel no creakle maureen cavanaugh tre Trevor Baldguy. Summer Blinko.

Becky. Nope, that's Beck JL. Susan Nichols. I said that. Nick Bunting. Deja. Deja. Garver Cole.

Heather Dustman. Jesus. What? Michaela Regineck. That can't be right. Connor Francis. Dulce Garcia. Megan Ray.

David Watts. What is this? Stephanie May. I think that's right. Kayla Christine. Katie would know last name. Brooke Chatha. Chatta.

Cindy Thilsen. Metal Mike 68. Martha would know last name. Jamie would know last name. Joey Scarlett. Trey Wildly, I think. Kate Hyden. Kat.

Kat Hyden. God damn it. David would know last name. Jeremy Swenson. David Plant. Ryan Quick. Katie Bartman. Maya Panette. cat cat hyden god damn it david with no last name jeremy swenson david plant uh ryan quick katie bartman maya panette nd abbott what lance howard uh holly norwood brady k sammy wagner r choo choo robin james johnny flores lisa watson brian corcoran uh stephanie vassar probably phil's daughter i'm sure absolutely i mean i wouldn't doubt it

i do that so i can fix this uh elizabeth goldstein laurie saucy matt graff hannah waters luis moreno naima j daniel oliver danny chestnut paula hlade hell h-l-a-d-e that's never gonna happen cassandra lee piddle uh leanne would know last name adam joel joel rottenberry rotten brady what burry berry rotten i don't know brayden would know last name tiffany savage caitlin paine rory owen gabrielle malign maline lind uh lydia platt plant god damn it carol young rob gold russ kern i think uh rebecca stanovich sam c daniel morgan jennifer reed christina ward uh robert farmer emma thomas jared watkins cps took it she's crying cps took her baby she's crying her god that's the best documentary ever made

madison snotherly, Donis House, Jason Stewart, Anders Hansen, Kayleen Frasher, God damn it. She's the sexiest of the White family. She makes the boo-coos and the boo-coos.

Cricket, Hilliard, Info Sports, now Sophie Aitken, William Horton, probably Tim Stunt. I assume. Or he hears a who, one of the two. Sandy with no last name. Crystal Moon, Becky Safaric, Dustin Gibson, Tammy Yerkes, Addison Berkey, I think, Ben Slater, Ghostie with no last name.

Lupe with no last name. Leanna Martin, Heather White,ilton uh sarah grubb uh rebecca mildred mildrin will hart mariah i think maria maria that's too many letters it doesn't make sense you looked at me i don't have it if i don't know what the fuck shenaid would know last name ken jr darla percy ashlyn michelle michael reeves melissa kaka poo poo pp shire what royal is her Ashlyn Michelle, Michael Reeves, Melissa Kakapupupipishire. What? Royal is her last name. James Marder, and he donated both ways. James has been around forever. Thank you so much.

Bill Nickel, Brandon Jane, Kyle Garriott, Peggy Garrard, Gerard, Jennifer Franklin, Anthony Foley, Emily Klaus, Brett King, Julie Smith, Chris Steele, Kimberly Diane, Jody Petzmeyer, SB with no last name, Lee Kast, Libisaurus Rex, Javette Clark, Taylor with no last name, Thomas Malloy, Callie with no last name, Colleen Harrigan, yes, Meissenholder, what, Meredith Baker, Ashley Amanda, Aranda. Oh, man. I'm just, i'm really just not good at this erica fowler i don't know why i promised this when i'm terrible at it evan evan carrie callum lane kyle nordberg kelly weaver john would know last name luke kane annie bull marco luna tanya christie batman would know last because that's what it is. He doesn't need it a lot.

It's Batman. We know him. And shit and Nurner. What? Aw, shit. And Nurner? Oh, boy. Casey Marr, Elizabeth Rakowski, Christy Torpey.

Yes. Mandy Grafeo, Emily Costa, Christina Anderson, Melissa Sigler, Tiffany. Begrudgingly getting it right. Tiffany Reynolds, Erica Parra, Kat Heiden. She donated like three times this week. Wow, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Kyle McGovern, Jessica Rooker, Callan Boyle, Chris Brown, Jason DeMeo, Joseph Merkel, oh boy, Addie Swanner, Chris Turner-er neil liz hernandez jennifer kubela cubala taylor would

know last name orexa or erica erica probably with an x that sounds like like a pornographic he-man character orexa lord of the rock hard penis i dig it aaron would know last name teddy what teddy o'donovan kathy uh heffelfinger, I think. You know what that is. Wow. Austin. Zoe. Ashley Brill. Flacco with no last name. Kyle Bingham.

Kathy, I said that. Charlotte Brooks. Kariana Garrard. Callie, what? Reginick. Mort Lock. What? That's her name.

Cousin Benny. Ashley Culpepper. Don, no, that's David Heller. Molly Jo Rosen. Princess Bright Eyes. As easy as it comes. That's pretty easy. And I still fuck it up.

David Heller. Ashley Culpepper. I said that. Laura Clark. Hunter Bresnik. And his girlfriend, Sarah Cipriano. Quentin. What is this?

Quentin Kirkham. David Ruiz. Sol Rivera. Bam Bam. Kim West. Connie Spencer-Below, Bellin, I don't know if that's a W, Tyson Bone, Chris Redd, Mike with no last name, Jonathan Biddy, Vincent Bonato, Leon Young, Kimberly Pronovost, Sierra J., Sarah Pixie DeLeon, thank you so much. She has sent

a nice email also. Adam Walsh. Stephen Dunlap. Sarah Randolph. Heidi and Morgan Krieger. Ashley Huddy. Caitlin Crane. Bubba Wilson. Stephen Check. Helen Larson. Megan with no last name. Bree Berry. Doug Brown. David

Barber. Shelby Kluver. Lisa Atkinson, Shelly Chapman, Darcy Moore, Sean Huss, Andrew with no last name, Carly Smith, Jennifer Parker, Kobe Nykerk, I think, Emily Goldsworthy. Oh, boy. Amanda Murphy, Chantel Locklear, probably Heather's daughter. I'm sure it's Heather's daughter. Positive.

You had a Merkel, too. You had Angela's daughter. Absolutely. positive you had a merkle too you had angela's daughter absolutely uh leah howard andrew couch kevin fitzpatrick uh laurie hansen son obviously clearly and jim's daughter laurie yeah uh hansen christopher scott sherry uh vanosky gilbert ashley burns rain hooper home stretch jody andrews uh louise wood happy birthday chemologist crystal lamb and melissa rothman wow happy birthday what the fuck uh kenneth kenneth hammond adam mears s nope yeah that's just s no last name but yasharo is part of the email so i didn't want i wanted to at least

give them some credit but they gave us nothing but an s and nor just S. Ann Norviel, Tanya Poole, Liz Farquhar. Took pity on you. Honestly. And then I made it worse. Caitlin Handrahan, Thomas Smith, Ashley Vio, Martina Lee-Walongo, of course. Hey, Martina. She's terrific. Holly Pulaski. Nope, that's William.

Comito. Norman Barnett. Craig Cole. Sterling Miles, Shannon, or maybe it's Shanann Hero. I'm not sure. We don't know anymore. Could be anything. Shanannigans. It could be crazy. Jason White, Peyton Meadows,

Carrie Morrell, Liz Vasquez, Kevin Pisters, Ivan Lee, Griffin Marsendorfer, Jennifer Baird, Andrew Sullivan, Mary Robinson, Julia Caldiera, Susan Olgis, Amanda Knight, Stacy. Susan, Liz, great people. Unbelievable.

Stacy Hallisey, Sarah Doctor, Foxy Mindy. Good for you. Hey. Stacy said that. Jennifer Stevens, Hector Grimshaw, Dee Dee Belts, Janice Hill, Rachel Morrison, Neil with no last name, Adam Lomax, Bernie's kid. Clearly, Neil's kid. Oh, that was Neil, too.

Neil Lomax, yeah, the quarterback of the Cardinals. Bernie from Weekend. Oh, I know who you're talking about. Dakota Harrington, Stephen Poe, Edgar, his kid. Edgar Allen's son, yeah. Great, great, great grandson. Nathaniel Plass, Sarah Erickson over there in uh where's she at i think she's in arkansas erickson i don't know norway rabbi uh shmuley olovich i don't know ronda george

marcus white sarah pixie donated twice garrett phelps brendan ables elizabeth burko rebecca hendricks kendall passmore where did i go here? God damn it. Ashley with no last name. Regina Ammon. Kim Kaberlein, I think. David Jackson. Ashley T. Heather Kelly. Kyle Juarez. Stephanie Mafia, I think.

Big J. LRG. He's large. Don't forget. Apparently, Sam is big. Charisma with no last name. And Benjamin Ortiz. And all of our patron supporters. You guys are amazing.

Thank you so much, everybody. Honestly, you guys are amazing. Everybody out there, thank you for everything you do for us. You have really made our lives much better. Just changed our lives for the better, and we can't thank you enough for it. And what if they wanted to get a hold of you and say thank you? How could they possibly do that? I'm on social media.

Is it even possible, Jimmy? Is it possible to find you? I'm on social media. You can find me. I'm around. And Drake Levin's mom found me, and it's his birthday. We met him in Charlotte. Well, happy birthday.

Oh, that's cool. I remember that. Social anxiety issues and such. Great kid. Happy birthday, Drake. Happy birthday. Thanks for hanging with us. And also, Alex Hall, thank you, buddy.

I just really appreciate you guys, truly. It's fucking shocking that we built something like this, and to have an audience that's this involved is incredible. So thank you, guys. We appreciate you guys, truly. And it's fucking shocking that we built something like this. And to have an audience that's this involved is incredible. So thank you. We love you guys. Where do they find you to thank you, James? You know how to work social media. My name's there.

You'll just copy and paste it. You'll figure it out. That said, everybody, by the way, this is episode 198. Oh, 199 is next week, which I believe is Thanksgiving. It is. Which nobody cares anyway. And then the week after that is our 200th episode. Wow.

You bet your balls that's going to be a burner there. That's going to be a good one. That's unbelievable. It's going to be hot, hot, hot. How did we do this? That's crazy, man. We're not going to stop there. And we're going to keep going.

We're going to keep going every single week. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.